RHAP: We Know Survivor - Caroline Vidmar & Gabe Ortis Recap Survivor 48 Ep 5

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

This week, Rob Cesternino is joined by Caroline Vidmar and Gabe Ortis from Survivor 47 to discuss episode 5 of Survivor 48.

Coming to you live from my apartment, it's Rob has a podcast. And now here's the guy who's here to bring you the whole full fat podcast. None of this 2% crap. I'm Rob Sister Nina. Hello everybody. Welcome back to Rob has a podcast and that's a fun podcast for you here today because we have not one, but two great guests, not just from Survivor 47, but from the Tucoo Tribe here with us

to talk about everything that's going on. It's Caroline Vidmar and Gabe Ortiz. Caroline and Gabe, what's going on? How are we doing? Hello. It's a Tucoo Takeover. Rob has a podcast. Tucoo Takeover.

Get ready for it. Get ready for a takeover. Yep. So very excited to have you both here and get to talk a little bit about this. And I'm really excited because I really I did not get to talk to anybody from your tribe in the postseason. We're all the team. Yes. When when me and Caroline knew that we were going to do this, it was one of the first things that we mentioned was like nobody. There was no two deep dive.

There was, you know, we had our postgame interviews, but that was about it. So we're excited to be here and represent the 47 Represent the blue of 47. Yeah, I'm the sue of this podcast a little bit a little bit I wasn't gonna say it but a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, check out my snatched cheeks everybody Yeah, okay who was Sue's favorite, though? Caroline. Oh, Caroline, we both know the answer. I'm going to let you answer, but there's only one right answer. You were the day one favorite. She held you near and dear to her heart.

But at the end of the day, I think I'm the favorite. I got to go with it. I'll be honest. What do you think? Wow. I think that I was the first person to approach Sue hour one day one. I went up to Sue and I talked to her and I was the one who stuck with Sue to the very end. Sue always knew how I was. And yeah, there was one one tribal in particular where Sue was quite shocked and you had to do some damage control with it the very next day. There was never any damage control with Sue for me after any

tribal. So I don't know. I think that there's only truly one person who can answer that. But I mean, I'm pretty call Sue later. Yeah. Yeah. That'll be in the postseason interviews. I did like the, you know, everybody, the final four or final five that we talked about. It was the final four in your season. And I really, I loved my interview with Sue. I thought she was so fun on the interview. I thought it was a whole side of her that I feel like that we didn't even see in the show.

Oh yeah. And I mean, I'm kind of curious, you know, to hear Caroline's take on this, but I've always thought that Sue is like this totally larger than my figure. And it's funny because she's a pretty small person in real life. But she's her personality and her energy is just like, oh, my God, it takes up all the air in the room in the best way possible. And so I don't think we ever really got to see that shine. And some of the funniest moments of my time in Survivor,

like my top five funniest moments, oh, maybe three of them are probably too related. Stay tuned for Gabe's top five funniest moments from Survivor 47 later on in the podcast, but we've got a lot to do to unpack episode number five here from, Caroline, were you disappointed that Survivor's social hour didn't return for episode five?

They got something so much better. I feel like that's the coolest thing on the planet. They got so much food. I feel like there was some condiments on the food that they got to eat. Honestly, what's funny is since being on the show, the biggest time I get FOMO is when I see the food rewards. Like that food reward was just phenomenal.

Yeah, at the sanctuary. Yeah. Don't talk about rewards in front of Gabe because he didn't get any. I got one and that was it. That was it. I got one. And one food reward.

Okay, all right. Well, we got a lot to unpack from everything. And of course, a very emotional episode of Survivor this week in so many different ways, of course, everything with Joe and Eva to the blind side of Bianca. And of course, you can catch my interview with Bianca up in our podcast feed and our YouTube, watchrhap.com.

So I talked to Bianca this morning, and I asked her about like, hey, what was going on there with Cedric? So I guess he went and told Mitch and Chrissy about what happened. And she's like, I watched him like a hawk. He never went and talked to them. And so I think that there's a little bit of a mystery over what happened. I assumed Cedric got a hold of Mitch and Chrissy and said, hey, listen, Bianca has no vote. Let's flip it on her.

She says she watched him, she followed him, and that never happened. Carolyn, what do you think about that? That is fascinating. Because I wasn't sure if the way that this episode was edited, I was figuring we would get one big flashback in this next episode. Maybe next episode. And turn next episode. Yeah, I'm really curious if like there is going to be an insight where we get to see Cedric sneaking away getting to tell Mitch and Chrissy. And while that

there was enough time for Mitch and Chrissy to decide like, okay, one of us is voting for Bianca, the other person isn't. So I'm kind of mind blown. My guess was actually that Cedric was doing some like miming to Chrissy in the back, like, vote Bianca. She has no vote. Wow. Cedric on the charades team. Oh, absolutely. That's my guess. Again, he's like, I think he's like a surgeon. He has like some like good skilled hands, keeps calm under pressure. I'm really excited to see how next episode goes. And again, props to Cedric for being able to like get that information out right before you go to tribal council. That takes skill.

Gabe, what do you think about that? Yeah. And, and you know, to Caroline's point, the fact that it happened right before they went to tribal, right? So when you're out there in survivor, you have to navigate around the schedule of the show. And for instance, when I was out there, Kyle Wren, the Kyle

from 47, he had a whole slew of hand signals that he would give me. So, for instance, if somebody was flipping on a vote and we really didn't have time to talk about it, he would just look at them, point his eyes at them and then give me a little. And that men flip.

Okay. So you're doing like hang loose. Like a hang loose. Yeah. Thumb from down to thumb to up. That men flip with your pinky. Did you work that out with him? Are you like the third base coach?

How did you coordinate these things? I just knew. It was just, you know, like, oh, he's doing, he's pointing at this person and he's flipping his hand. It could only possibly mean one thing in the context of what's going on right now. And he would know when a certain person is flipping their vote? If he did know, or if he was confident that he knew, sometimes he was wrong, most of the time he was right. So I have to

imagine that it was but that's what you do when you're out there is you need to find ways to operate in any kind of scenario, whether you're alone with the person you want to talk with, whether you're in a group with the whole tribe, and there are people there that you don't want to know what you're talking about, whether you just don't have the time to do it, because you're about to go to a challenge, or you're about to go to tribe or a journey, or

whatever it may be, people just find these weird, unique ways. While they're out there, things that they're not thinking about before they get out there, that become integral parts of the the gameplay that can even be difficult for the camera and the producers to pick up because it's so very subtle and it's something that is not meant to be seen. Caroline, did you agree with that? I think absolutely. Especially when I think you're going into tribal council, you're trying to think as

much as you can. Like how can I communicate to people in tribal council especially that we're good? Are we gonna do like a subtle hand signal? Are we gonna do like subtle nods? What if we can't talk to each other at tribal council? Are you just gonna like cause chaos and start standing up? It is one of those things where when you have the luxury of being able to like level set that before tribal council,

it is huge. It's chaotic when you don't have that plan and you're like, I hope they know what we mean when we do like this head nod or like that. So a hundred percent, it's one of those things where if you can talk about it ahead of time, huge. And just try to hope that things work out. So I can't wait to see next episode

and hear more about Cedric's process of how he's able to communicate that. And I cannot wait to hear his like, thought process for why he didn't tell say and why he chose to tell Chrissy and Mitch and not his number one. Well, maybe only Chrissy that we don't even know if he told Mitch. Yeah, because Mitch wasn't in on the vote at least, you know. I assumed he wasn't on the vote and Mitch and look, who knows, maybe we'll see next week a little bit more in terms of like what actually happened.

My thinking was that, okay, Mitch wasn't on the vote, but they thought, okay, well, what if Bianca has an idol? And so then if there's two votes that are coming for Bianca and she has an idol, at least it would be one-one and they'd have a revote and then they could potentially take say out on the revote from Mitch putting his vote on her, but I asked Bianca and she's like, no, I don't think so. I don't know. I watched him. I never saw him say anything to them. He never had time alone with them.

And it's also thinking about, you know, the person who's responsible. In this case, Cedric is somebody who seems very chaos averse. He seems like somebody that doesn't want to have a big. Nevertheless, though. is somebody who seems very chaos averse. He seems like somebody that doesn't want to have a big nevertheless. So but he has these chaotic moves, but he does it in a school principal kind of way. You know, he's not going out there for, you know, lack of a better example, like a Rome type and just blowing things up at camp and everybody's walking around and everyone's

seeing the spectacle. He's like, no, I'm going to be as calm and collective as I possibly can, because I think that's kind of the guy that he is in real life. And so he's probably somebody who's like thinking very intensely about how can I get done what I need to get done in this game without setting camp on fire without setting this tribe on fire, because he's just not that kind of dude. Right, now, I asked Bianca about why did you tell Cedric about this? And I had asked her about, did she know that Justin had not told Cedric about her vote? And she said, yes, Cedric talked about it a lot,

that Justin got voted out because he didn't tell Cedric. He left out that part. And I think that must have been a big deal for Bianca. It must have been like very much going through her head of like, oh, if I don't tell Cedric now, he's gonna kill me when we get back after I make him vote out his ally on the two-two split. And so to try to get ahead of that,

I think that's where, what she's thinking. And, but Cedric this time didn't matter. Yeah. And I've ever seen on this show. I don't know if he knows he's causing so much chaos on his. I don't think he does. I don't know. I think he has no idea how it's being or when he was out there, had no idea how it would

be perceived. I mean, he is just like this completely ruthless, merciless, like history teacher. It's it's crazy. You know, like I would want to sit down with him at a PTA meeting. I mean, Heisenberg before he breaks bad, like Heisenberg in season one was doing all the stuff he did in season five. But it was the guy from season one who couldn't even speak up to people bullying his son You know, I thought it was so funny when Bianca's like Cedric Cedric. We have a great relationship. I could tell you anything

He's like, yeah. Yeah, she's like, I Don't have a vote. He's like, oh you don't like he Disappointed reaction to You could tell me. Oh, oh, really? Oh, I mean, I don't know, Caroline, I want to hear from you. Like, what is the totality of your take on Cedric's move over the course of this tribal council? What do you make of him flipping on Bianca?

And what do you make of him excluding, say, from the conversation? Okay. Great question there. Overall, I love supportive Carolyn. Caroline is here today. I'm so excited. Be honest, I really, really wish Cedric made a different move because I thought it was so telling in the episode when he said the biggest person I trust out here outside of myself is say.

And if you're going to take someone who's telling you they lost your vote, which is like the biggest, like most vulnerable thing you can tell someone out there from a strategy standpoint and be like, okay, so I'm going to crush that. I'm going to destroy it. She's out of here. But also I'm not going to tell my number one alliance member

who I am like getting rid of someone who has no other alliance members, putting full trust in me. I'm going to slit her throat, keep Say, but really piss Say off. Because we all know Say does great when she's mad. Like, oh my gosh. So I think he said that, you know,

Say is the person out here that I trust the second most after myself. Yes. That's what he said. Yes, yes. That was an interesting way to phrase that. Yes. However, I'm not going to tell her that information. And also, he didn't even cause chaos like during the tribal council.

From what he saw, he made no attempt to tell her whatsoever. Even when she asked, did you know about this? He's like, yeah, like you have a shady too. Oh, could there be a little bit here? And I'm not saying that this is what I think it was, or it would necessarily be a good move just trying to put myself in his shoes. Could there be a little bit of trying to save say from herself and thinking if I drop this bomb on her that just got dropped on me, I don't know how that grenades going to

go off. I don't know how it's going to fall with say what if say doesn't want to vote out Bianca? What if say wants to keep Bianca around and me and Chrissy want to get her out? You know, so could there be a little bit of Cedric thinking we are so close and our our alliance has worked so well throughout this point in the game that I can afford to keep her in the dark for this vote, because I don't know how it's gonna land with her and I need for whatever reason he may think I need this move to work out for my game and I can do damage control when we get back to camp

and say is my number one and she'll understand but for right now I can't afford to have this vote go sideways because say doesn't agree with the plan or say has loose lips and the plan gets out to Bianca and she plays an idol or an advantage or something. I think there could be a little bit of of of Cedric just wanting to keep as little variables affecting this plan as possible. That's an interesting thought about this, because when we go back to the Kevin vote back in the second episode, so it was a similar situation where and these two have been to tribal council so many times. So we have a lot of backstory already,

a lot of lore between Cedric and Say. So Kevin told Cedric, hey, we are gonna blindside Say tonight. And Cedric went to Say and said, okay, here's the play tonight. You play your idol, okay? We're all gonna put our votes on to you, and you play your idol, and then Mary will still go home

because you put your vote on her, Mary doesn't have a vote. And she said, okay, but we're not doing that. We're voting out Kevin tonight. And Cedric initially did not wanna do that. So I think that maybe he's like, well, look, we're still gonna do what I wanna do and we don't need to necessarily include Say, because then say is going to come in

with a new plan. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's definitely like a very big brain way of taking it. And I think gave a Rob, I actually very curious. I do think that it was probably some part of like Cedric's calculation thinking about that. What I hope he has planned is really great. Like what's it called?

Like management, like when he gets back to camp and thinking about how can he do this is damage control. Thank you, Rob. Yeah. Damage control absolutely is needed. And it's so wild. This whole situation is being brought. Because honestly, it reminds me quite a bit, Gabe. I hate to say it, of when you were going home and there was that debate of do we tell Sue or not? I really think Sue, even if we tell her at the very last minute is going to tell you Sue has an idol, something crazy can happen. And so that was our favorite,

but continue. We'll see. She told me she wants to use the idol on you. But again, only one person can truly answer it. Yeah. It just all goes down to, I feel like you have to just put all this contextualized into who are you playing with? Who is your Alliance member? Your Alliance member is Say. And I think the biggest advantage to working with Say is Say is so honest.

Say is so honest about here's what I care about, here's what pisses me off, here's how I'm gonna act accordingly. And I think that that is the biggest benefit to working with Say. And I feel like my guess is I think Cedric's kind of disregarding what he knows about, say. Yeah, I really think we have these two

very interesting theories of that. Theory number one is that there just was not enough time and that Bianca's watching them and that there's Cedric just goes to tribal council and is able to give a signal to Chrissy, okay, Bianca doesn't have a vote, flip it. There's also this other theory of like that Cedric is like premeditating all of this and is, you know,

deciding, okay, I have time. I'm not gonna, I'm intentionally not going to tell say, Bianca says, if I see you go to say, I'm gonna know something. I don't know what she could do about it, but she said to him, like, if I see you go and talk to say, I'm gonna know that something is up. And so, I mean, maybe he could blame,

throw Bianca under the bus of like, she was watching me. I couldn't tell you. Yeah. And and then, you know, the the other side of this, if we want to get into it, is the Bianca side of this, of why she decided to tell Cedric, you know, that she didn't have a vote when it was kind of her only trump card was the fact that she was the swing boat. Yeah. Right. Her being the swing vote was her only way to navigate out of this pretty awful situation that the tribes put her in.

And then she shows that hand to Cedric. And obviously, it's a very easy thing to Monday morning quarterback and be like, well, I never would have done that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I also think people need to understand that, like, Bianca was such an easy vote for the other four in that scenario. Like, yeah, you can use her as a swing vote to go after one of the other two. But at the same time, if you walk, if you and your alliance member of Mitch and Chrissy walk up to Cedric and say, and say, let's just wake up tomorrow, right? Let's

just wake up tomorrow. And we are, and neither of us lose as a strong ally in this game. Neither of us is worried about being on the bottom of this tribe. And all of us can wake up tomorrow and we can figure it out then if we just vote Bianca out tonight. And I guarantee you every single person out there, especially on that beach because they were going to tribal, was doing the math in their head. And they were thinking, okay, there's this many people left. We've been out here for this many days. merger Tories right around the corner, we are merging sooner rather than later. And that is an even added layer of

incentive to think, let's all just wake up tomorrow, because there's a really good chance that when we wake up in the morning, our Tremail is going to say drop our buffs. And if that's the case, then the the makeup of this tribe doesn't even matter anymore. Because we're all playing with 1312 players, however many people are going to be there next episode. So it's like if I'm Bianca, I'm thinking the same thing from the other side of that coin of thinking, oh my god merges right around the corner. It's it's the first massive milestone you have in this game. I know that they all want to get there as badly as I do. Why the hell wouldn't they just vote me out tonight? And then they're one step closer to the merge.

And they're one step closer to getting back to all their allies that got separated from them in this swap. So if you're Bianca, I totally understand the perspective of being like, I need to show them that I want to work with them beyond this tribal council that I have value to them beyond this tribal council. And that manifested itself in her telling Cedric that she didn't have a vote. And you know, it's the old cliche of survivor that trust is currency in this game. And the only form of currency she had was the secret that she didn't have a vote.

Now, obviously, it backfired on her and it didn't work out. But for all the folks out there saying that, like, this was just a complete blunder and she wasn't thinking right and blah, blah, blah, like not at all. She was a very, very, very easy target. She was not guaranteed to be a swing vote that night, particularly if you're in Bianca's shoes. And I don't know if I would have done the same thing. I don't know what I would have done differently.

I don't like speculating on that because I'm not out there. But I totally get the move from Bianca to do that. And it just didn't work out. And sometimes that's what happens in Survivor. You make a move, you go all in on something, it just doesn't work out. And that's how I perceive this from Bianca. Not some epic blunder that, you know,

she could have avoided by any means necessary. I get the move entirely. Yeah, Caroline, do you think in any part of her thought process was that Thomas got voted out at the last tribal council and for Bianca, hey, I need allies. Look, it's only now Joe and Shaheen from my old tribe that were my close allies

that maybe I could be building something over here with some of these people. And so rather than, you know, blindside all of them and have them be mad at her going into Mergetory, do you think that she was feeling like, hey, I need to build something here? Yes, Rob, 100%. I think you hit the nail on the head here,

which is this move just shows that Bianca was playing the long game. She was playing to win. She wasn't just playing to survive another day because guess what? She shows that she's if she doesn't tell anyone that she lost her vote, she shows that she's incredibly cunning, set up a position where she is the swing vote. They're targeting each other and then she gets to go like get away from this scotch freefree like that's a brilliant move But guess what everyone's absolutely pissed at you does not trust you and knows that you're a gigantic threat And she has no other like people that she's feeling incredibly close to so she's in a really tough position

Then once you get to the merge and even if you stay in the tribe stage, she's in a really tough spot there So I really respect what she was doing She tried to find the person who she felt she could trust the most who she felt was going to respect her move. Because guess what? Apparently, he's been talking at camp a bunch about how Justin did like lost his vote didn't tell him it was a nail in the coffin. So she's like, All right, loud and clear. I take feedback.

And to that point, Caroline, you know, in survivor, when you're out there, like moments stick to you in survivor things you do in moments that and moves you make they stick to you. And so that was one of the reasons that I didn't play my idol and Sue in the one to ku tribal that we went to the one proper true ku tribal that we went to was because I was thinking this is gonna stick to me no matter what happens from this tribal on if there's a tribe swap or if there's a mix match reward

between tribes or if we just make it to the merge. Everyone is going to say on day three or four whenever it was gay play to Zydele and Sue, even if I hated Sue, even if I went on to hate Sue, which obviously I didn't let me work together until I was out. That would have stuck to me. And so I can see from Bianca's perspective, exactly what Caroline was saying, that if she goes and she plays all four people on this five person tribe, when they all

get back to tribal regardless, or when they all get back to camp after tribal, regardless of who goes home, they're all thinking, damn, this little woman just played all of us to quote Cedric when he said he wasn't going to chase that little woman Mary, but they're all going to be saying like, dang, she just played all of us. And when they all get to the merge, and everyone's like, hey, how did it go with your camp? What was your new tribe like, blah, blah, blah. There's one story that Mitch, Mary, say and

Cedric, whatever combination of them survive is telling when they get to the merge. And it's Bianca played all of us and one of us had to go home because Bianca lied to all of us. And we all did exactly what she wanted us to do when we went to tribal. And that is a very, very, very big target to put on your back. And maybe it's a bit better to approach Cedric a little meek with your hands out and say, Hey, I really need help said, and I don't have a vote tonight. And I want you to

trust me. And hey, I'll just take me under your wing. And let's make it through this tribal and go to the merge together. And then all of a sudden, you have options. And you're seen as somebody to quote my good friend, Andy Ruetta, you're seen as somebody who can get scooped up at the merge and join numbers versus somebody that needs to be taken out. And that's a very powerful position to be in. And I think Bianca was trying to align herself there for the merge that was on the horizon. And then again, it just didn't

work out. And that's the game sometimes. I'd love to talk a little bit about the journeys because correct me if I'm wrong, Caroline, no, you went on the journey. Gabe, you did not go on a journey, correct? Never. Yes. Okay. I would say that if I was to play, I feel like that based off of what I've seen, you

could not get me to go on a journey at this point. I would not do it. Caroline, you were able to come away with it. No problems. But it does feel like that the upside is very limited to me of what can be gained from going on the journey. Absolutely, Rob, I could not agree with you more. I did not want to go on that journey that I went on in my season in any way, shape or form. What they didn't even show in the edit is as Gata was deliberating who to send on the journey, I was inching off the mat. I was trying to hide behind Kyle. Me too. I turned my head away. I looked down and away from Gata.

We're trying to hide as much as we could because also it's important to remember that like Gabe and I were in a really good spot at that point. We were really happy with where our game was going and we felt we were positioning ourselves really well for the merge. And like my personal philosophy is that journeys can be beneficial and useful if you're on the bottom. If you need something to like kind of just turn the corner in your favor, even if you don't get something, you have options for bluffing and trying to read what type of like advantage should I play, what type of disadvantage should I play, depending on the people that I'm with. But if you're in a really good spot, you're just putting a greater spotlight onto how you're acting.

Regardless of you get an advantage or disadvantage, people are paying a lot more attention to you after a journey. And if you're trying to kind of keep your cards to your chest of what your advantages are, who you're working with, etc. It just beyond the advantage or disadvantage, it puts you in such a tough spot. So Rob, I'm with you. I am anti journey. It is rough.

But again, if you need like a shot in the dark, another one. And to your point, Caroline, a great example of you know what you're saying of being on the bottom when a journey can help is Mary this season. And, you know, she hits her shot in the dark, and that's ultimately what saved her. But what caused so much paranoia before she goes to that tribal is the fact that she went on a journey and she came back and she played mind games with saying and was like, I'm going to go for a swim. I'm totally relaxed. I'm all cool.

You know, we heard stories that she had a fake idol wrapped up in her pocket that, you know, put a lot of paranoia into Say's mind. And I don't know if those mind games would have worked as efficiently if she didn't have that journey to sow seeds of doubt. Of which you may or may not have. Please let Emily flippin on you because she went on the journey in episode two and then she lost her vote and that was on the Kevin vote. And everybody was sort of like, okay,

well there's nothing Mary can do. She's going home tonight. And then it was the tribal council after that that she went out scrambling for the idol and then acted like that she had stopped looking for it. And that was more of what made me say so paranoid about her. Was the idol hunt, you're correct. Yeah, yeah.

However. I think I got my chronology a little mixed up. If we're going extra big brain here, she could have pulled a Sam Phelan, use her shot in the dark to pretend that she didn't have a vote, put that advantage in her pocket, not play it and say, yes, yes.

Okay. Big brain over here. That's really good. I just think that we've come a long way since in Survivor 44, Lauren is rigging the rock draw so that she can get to go on the journey. I don't think that we're it's only been a couple of seasons, but I think that now players are like, hey, I don't I don't want to go at all. I'm not going to rig the rock draw to go on the journey.

Yeah. And you know, that's just thinking about it from the perspective of like the tribe dynamics of when you get back. You know, people are always going to think you're lying about what actually happened unless you show them some proof. If you have proof that you got something that puts a target on your back, because now you have an advantage other people don't have. But what we saw in the journey that took Bianca's vote away is not only do you have to deal with that, but now you might just be rolling dice to keep your vote or not. And at least there was this idea of I'm going to go on the journey and it's going to be a puzzle or it's going to be a challenge and I'm going to crush it. And at least I can control that.

You know, now it's like you might not even be in control of if you get a vote or not. You get an advantage. Caroline, that I mean, did you feel like you had that much control in reverse? Jenga when you lost your vote Is that such a game of skill? Honestly, there was some skill to it I think full blame for it I there was honestly there are ways where you could try and make it really tricky for the person next to you with where you Placed your block on which

I was trying to do but then everyone else was really good at where they place theirs and I screwed myself over. Here's how I was gonna do it. But honestly because there was some strategy and even if it's all Psychological I felt like I had control I was able to sleep at night after I lost my vote But like you know It's kind of on me if I ended up leaving Survivor because I rolled dice in the wrong way and I had no choice of it, that's a tougher pill to swallow. Yeah, that's the big difference. And that's a great way to put it, Caroline, is like the the the psychology of it of like, OK, like I could have moved my little Jenga piece like half an inch to the left or half an inch to the right. Maybe I'm here. Come on dice like that's just go play craps at the casino. And then, you know, oh, what did I just do? I lost $500 because the dice didn't roll my way.

Like that's different than putting $500 down on a race or something. Like something you can control something you participate in. You don't participate in a dice roll. You know, you could have thrown the dice in the ocean and the tide washes them back up. And that decides if you win the game or not. Like it's the same exact thing. You know, I have a season forty nine prediction. I think you too far into the direction of like journeys being really tough and

honestly being more likely to screw you over in a way. I think we're going to get some really good journeys next season. I think we've got to go the other direction. I agree. Something needs to be done. They need to be revamped in some way. If they're not going to abandon them, agree something needs to be done. They need to be revamped in some way. If they're not going to abandon them, they need to do something to make them a little more interesting, not

so negative on the people that go on them. No matter like something's got to happen. I love this because I love talking to the people that are watching that are going to play. So you say if you're going on survive for nine or survive for 50 and you're listening to this podcast and a boat comes, get on the boat. That's the official advice from Caroline. I'm saying get on the boat. If you are on the bottom, if you are swirly on the bottom, get on the get on the if you're not on the bottom, if you're where me and Caroline were when she went on her journey, you run as far away from that boat as possible. And if they make you get on the boat, you run as far away from that boat as possible.

And if they make you get on the boat, you break the motor so you don't have to leave. Yeah. Like under no circumstance should you be going on a journey if you are in a good spot. It is a you know, it is a do or die kind of situation where I don't do this and get something from it. I'm going to go home. So now I really wish that you were the one who from it. I'm gonna go home. See all the circumstances. Sorry, now I really wish that you were the one who got picked so I could watch you mute me. Like the person's like,

oh, I'm the poor guy driving the boat. You're like, no, no, no, we're putting this boat around guys. Let's go back. Jeff, I'm not going. You gotta carry me. I mean, I was adamant not going. Yeah. All right.

So your season did not have a tribe swap and this season did. How thankful were the both of you that there was not a tribe swap? I like what our season had. I mean, granted, I feel like I got to really benefit from the Survivor Social Hour in terms of being able to meet people on the other side, get some information, get some vibes, but not have everything completely upended in terms of feeling like now I have to have new alliances with people. It's also a complete roll of the die in terms of who you end up with. Are you with people you're in alliance with? Are you not? I was really happy with how it shaped up because, but again, like I'm very biased, Gabe and I were in wonderful

positions that we put ourselves in. But I think it's now so interesting as we're going into this next episode where we haven't had for quite a few seasons now, what's the dynamic of after you have like a true tribe swap? And actually I was thinking when's the last time we tried Shake Up? Season 44, we had something where a couple people got to switch tribes But this is a good true genuine tribe swap We're kind of entering into some like unknown territory here in terms of what are the relationships going to be like when we get back? To camp and gave him curious if you have any thoughts here as well. Yeah when when We were on our season from a gameplay perspective. I was I was dreading the thought of a tribe swap. I thought, you know,

please, please know, part of me was almost even dreading the merge a little bit because of how everything was going to get mixed up. And you know, something that happens a lot on Survivor is you get really comfortable in those first like, five or six days, you know, five, six, seven days where it's like, okay, I've made relationships with people. I'm kind of used to sleeping in the jungle now. And maybe somebody found an idol. Maybe I found an idol or you know, maybe one of my alliance members found it. I know where it's at. Maybe we've gone to tribal one or two times and I survived and people voted the way that they said that they were going to vote. And you kind of get into this mode of like, all right, like, I'm feeling kind of good now and I'm feeling comfortable. And then a tribe swap happens or the merge happens. And it's like, I have to start back at square one. Now I put in all

this work to put myself in this comfortable, safe position among these five, four, three other people. And now I'm totally back at square one again. And that is a very anxiety inducing feeling. And I empathize with everybody out there who was feeling like that for the tribe swap, because that's how I felt once we hit the merge. From a social perspective, I was kind of hoping there was going to be a tribe swap at some point, just because I was so eager to meet all the other people we were playing with, you know, like Saul, especially, I was very eager to meet Saul, I was very eager to meet Sam. And because I didn't really have anybody like that on my tribe, I had TK who left pretty early. And Kyle is an enigma, there is nobody else in the world I know like Kyle Ren. So I was I was excited to meet some people who I thought would be a little bit more like me from a social perspective, but from a gameplay perspective, I was like, I'll sit here for

the rest of the game and I'll be fine. All right. I want to ask both of you about, we had a really big moment in the history of the show last night with Joe going over to talk to and comfort, after she was having an episode, after the challenge. And it was such a big moment that it even got Jeff to cry for the first time on the show after watching what happened. So I would just love to get both of your perspectives on that. And if there are things, well, first, let's talk about the moment that

happened last night. I want to know that I want to go in some other places. Yeah. So I look at that moment and it's remarkably heartwarming. It is, you know, one of the most human moments that I think we've seen on Survivor throughout all, you know, 25 years I did not cry because I, I kind of put the puzzle pieces in my head watching the preview that I kind of was like, OK, you pre cry and the yeah. Yeah, I got all my tears out before the episode. But I mean, it was beautiful. It was a beautiful moment. You saw a father, you know, a single father at that

run to somebody who I'm sure he has a very father daughter like relationship with at least when they were out there. And you know, that human part of it is it's beautiful. It's awesome. And I'm so happy that they captured it on camera for the world to see and for the world to enjoy. I'm very happy for Joe and Eva that they got to share that moment together. And then I'm sure we're going to get into it. But I also think that there are gameplay implications to what happened. And I also think there are very big picture show

production implications that people can take away from that as well. And I know what I mean by that is that and I don't want to sound like Jeff's PR guy here, even though I might. But that's what this show is now. And it doesn't mean that there's not room for violence. How you do it on Survivor? I mean, you know, like it doesn't mean that there's not room for villains anymore. I mean, look at forty seven.

Like we had Rome, you know, depending on who you ask. We had me. I may not agree with that. But and even this season, we have some more villainous characters like Thomas. But that's what the core of this show is now. And to get inside the head of Jeff and to get inside the head of his team of awesome producers is that they want this to be a show where you hug your family a little bit tighter afterwards.

They want this to be a show where you have some all moments and whether you like it or you don't, there are some people out there who hate that, who want to see every season be Russell hands and Tyson and Boston Robb and Eliza Orleans and Courtney Yates all yelling at each other for 90 minutes and then they go to tribal vote somebody out, you know, but whether you like it or not, that's what this show is now. And you got to learn to embrace that if you're going to continue watching the show and enjoying it. And I

think that there is a lot of beauty in that that Jeff is an older guy now. He even said in the episode, he's a dad now. And I think that he wants to create a show that if he weren't the survivor guy, he would want to watch that with his kids, he would want to watch that with his, you know, I to watch that with his you know, I assume eventual grandkids And and I think you can take away I think that is gonna be kind of a poster child moment for what survivor is moving forward and what Jeff and his team wants It to be moving forward

How about for you Caroline? There is just so much in this moment and it's wild because even like before we're like, you know, having this conversation, I watched that moment and I'm like, even when I think about what I wanna share in this moment with you, it's hard because there's just so much to it and there's so much depth to it.

And that there is the perspective of like, oh my gosh, Eva just went through something that is like so incredibly like challenging. I feel like the survivor challenges are stressful enough as it is to go through an experience where then you can also feel your body not reacting the way that you want to when you're trying to stay focused and she's doing everything she possibly can. But there's things that are out of her control and to like go through that, still finish and dominate the challenge.

And then also though, to have an experience where, in Survivor, you already feel so out of control. There's so many things that are just like, you are as uncomfortable as you possibly can be, physically, mentally, emotionally, and you're like unable to regulate yourself. Like I can only imagine how that moment felt for then her, for her to have that real raw moment with Joe,

which we can go into as well. And then to recover and give the most eloquent, beautifully spoken like explanation for it, where you are just such a role model for anyone else who's able to like relate to that. Like honestly, you can't write that. Like you can't script that. It's just incredible that that moment happened.

And what's wild is I even feel like if Survivor was a show that was like, like, House of Villains or just something really kind of like cold-hearted, like, no matter what you're gonna have, like, you're gonna cry, you're gonna shed a tear in that moment. Like, it's just wild. But what I also wanna call out and why I think it's maybe resonating

with a lot of people is, even if you're not neurodivergent, you're not diagnosed with autism, what I so admire in that moment that I think resonates a lot is what Eva was saying is to herself beforehand, is I think what a lot of people internally might say to themselves. She was saying, I'm not going to be able to get this.

Why can't I get this? She was so vulnerable and real with all the struggles she was having. Then to see someone persevere with that too, that's what Survivor is. It's persevering when you don't think you're even possibly able to. And then to add on all these additional complexities to it

and to see Jo put in a lot of ways gameplay perspective on the back burner to then comfort her and help her at such a real moment. And I also want to call out, granted I'm not too in Survivor Twitter, so maybe this has been mentioned before, Joe was still thinking about gameplay in that, like in that realm, in my opinion. What did you see? What I saw was that when Eva mentioned she does have autism, Joe had a very big reaction. He went like this. Yeah.

I was really curious. I really want to hear at some point what Joe's perspective is in that moment, Joe had a very big reaction. He went like this. Yeah, yeah. And then he walked off. Yeah. I was really curious. I really want to hear at some point what Joe's perspective is in that moment. Cause my guess is his perspective was shoot, Eva is being open about this. I don't want people to take advantage of her. What are the game implications?

I think he was thinking strategy, but in the moment, then he brought himself back to being like, but how wonderful that Eva is doing this. How wonderful that she's going to be a role model with so many people. But I bring that up because Joe, I think, was balancing the strategic parts of the game, but then also who he is as a human being and what he wants to role model.

So I think he did a beautiful job balancing both and remembering, like, what matters to him in that moment. And Joe said, you know, in the first episode, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was the first episode where even if it means if I go home early, like I got her. And that was the moment where he delivered on that promise that he made to the audience. Right. He didn't say that to her. You know, at least we didn't see on camera him saying to Eva, hey, even if it means

I leave my game early, I got you know, he made that promise to us, the audience. And then he delivered on that promise in that moment where he put his game in pretty serious jeopardy by exposing an ally that nobody, I assume really knew about at that moment. But you know, he made that promise and he delivered on it. So you know, I really tip my cap to him. And it's a moment that I think people are going to be talking about in this show's history and legacy for a really long time. Now, it's obviously not the same, but in your season, it all got started when Andy has his

emotional moment on the mat. And how different would that have been if you saw somebody on Andy's tribe going and like consoling him, like if, you know, John Lovett or Monica. Which didn't really happen, by the way. For anybody who goes back to watch, it didn't really happen. And I know it didn't happen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a funny difference between the two. But how would you, as people on the other tribe, have reacted to seeing somebody make such a open show of, you know, humanity towards somebody? I mean, I would have been like, oh, well, if they make it to the murders together, watch out. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that that's something I would have been thinking, you know, at least after the fact in the moment. I think everybody was thinking and Caroline, you can, you know, agree or disagree with this. I think everybody was thinking, I hope this guy's okay,

you know, I hope this dude's gonna do okay. And then when he was giving his, you know, speech afterwards, after he got back up on the mat, it was you could still kind of tell like, not all the wires are firing the way they should right now. And so when we all went back to camp, you know, the first thought was, I really hope that guy's okay. But had there been a very clear and direct and open moment between Andy and somebody else,

absolutely I would have been thinking like, okay, clearly these two care about each other. And that is a very powerful thing in this game when you truly genuinely care about somebody and they're not just a game, when you truly genuinely care about somebody, and they're not just a game piece to you, they're not just somebody who you see as somebody you can work with to get to the end, and when the million dollars for the for yourself, it's very clear after that episode, Joe and Eva care

about each other on a human level, you know, and they will do things as Joe made the promise to us the audience again to say, they will do things that may be antithetical to their game and getting to the end and willing winning the million dollars because of how much they care about this person. And if you're somebody who's battling against that, it's a dangerous thing to battle against. And it's a tough thing to battle against. So it's a lot of schools of thought.

Yeah, well, I think what's interesting is not only did they show on the mat that they just care about each other so much as like people and outside the game, but you can also imply that they're strategically working together because Eva said, I did not tell anyone else on my tribe that I have autism except for Joe. He's the only person I trusted, only person. Was it basically just like just my number one emotionally, strategically, all the eggs are in Joe's basket. So it's interesting. Cause I would say if they just kept it purely emotional, I think it'd be easier for them to kind of downplay the threat level of that relationship. That's actually what I tried to do with Sue and that Sue, her

approach, but she is like, I'm going to everyone I work with Caroline, I'm never gonna write her name down, like we're good. But she had a very nice like strategic, like on the backburn or not on the backburner, more low key relationship with Gabe. And so the way I tried to downplay my relationship with Sue is I was like, you know, we just have a mother daughter relationship.

It's very emotional. We care about each other a lot, but it's, you know, strategically, we're doing other things, too. But I think it's going to be hard for Joe and Eva to downplay their relationship in any sense. So it'll be very intrigued to see how they approach that moving forward. Because at that point, you have to turn it into a strength.

How can you use that relationship that's so public and try to now turn into something that's not working against you, but in your favor There's ways to do it. I'm curious to see how they approach it Oh, yeah and and and that's something where you know If you're Joe and Eva you can be walking around now and being like you get one of us you got both of us So, you know, you can kind of get a two-for-one here if you need two votes You can find both of them in the same place now

and if you're somebody who is votes, you can find both of them in the same place now. And if you're somebody who is maybe in a minority alliance, or if you're somebody who's on the bottom and is looking for a home, that's a very attractive thing. The only way I think that it's truly threatening, which, you know, people will have to deal with is if you're in the power position, because then you're thinking the people who I'm going against can use these two walking votes against me, right. And so there's a lot of dynamics of this.

Like Caroline just said, I don't think it's as cut and dry as they care about each other. They're working together. We got to get one or both of them out that it could be one school of thought if you're threatened by it. But you can also see it as an opportunity to push your personal game forward. And that's what makes this so intriguing.

And that's why I think we're set up for a hell of a merge, you know, in the next one episode. It's going to be so awesome because there's just so many dynamics at play. And kudos to the producers because I mean, this tribe swap is really what set up all of the storylines we have going into the merge. Yeah, we got very lucky with how this I mean, Bianca and Thomas are like, I don't think so, Rob. But no, we got in terms of like how these tribes broke down because it's been so interesting. And so one of the other big moments from the episode last night was when we saw the people that are on the new Vula tribe after they had that tribal council where

I'm like, that's it. This is the line in the sand. These two are going to be these four are going to be warring the rest of the season. Did not see they all came together and they had these personal backstories that they all shared like, hey, what if, look at us. Maybe we could be the four. And I think that's what, we could talk about that certainly some more.

But I think that what's really interesting with the Eva situation is that Eva has also connected with the other person who is very close allies so it's that like really kismet that Eva hit it off with David and David happens to be the ally of Kyle and Camilla and then Eva is linked up with the ally of Kyle and Camilla. And then Eva is linked up with Joe and Shaheen. And now it feels like that they're going to like fold that into each other. And this is a very strong center of power, I feel like coming into the merge. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a great point. And that's actually even though we no longer have like a California Girls Alliance, I can really see a situation.

The new California girl. He lives in California. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. Oh, never mind. California Girls 2.0. Here we go. The remix. It's going to be really interesting. And just something that really did strike me in terms of like, we're on the new Bula tribe and we're seeing the four of them have that connection. I think to some people who have not yet played Survivor or have chosen not to play Survivor, you might be like, how is it that they like bonded so quickly, so rapidly? And like, how significant of like a relationship is this really going to be? Because I think it's one of those things that makes sense.

You try to find like commonalities with each person, like different people on your tribe, try to form those into relationships. But what I think is important to note with this one, and that makes this relationship so unique, is what gets deep about it is I think they actually bonded over having like a shared mentality. It's something that's more core to who they are.

And what's core to who they are is they're like, what I'm implying is from when the going gets tough, I remember my parents have gone through so much worse. Our family history has had this hardship and I'm gonna use that as motivation to be stronger and overcome. It sounds like that is a mentality and the part of how the people on this tribe approach life. And I think when you feel like you relate to someone, not just because you have a shared hobby,

or even just not even a shared life experience, but a shared view of life and how you approach things and how you overcome things, like that's so core to who you are, you feel like, oh, I got you. We're truly on the same tribe. And I think that is something that it goes beyond other high level ways to bond with people. I think that's the best way to bond with someone on Survivor is you share a shared approach to life and a shared value. So I really am excited to see what these four do. I do think that they have a very strong foundation. How Eva and David get looped in will be interesting. I think Joe has also a very shared values perspective

with Eva where I think they are just locked to the bone and now they have a shared experience as well. I think they're gonna be a super tight duo. I'm curious to see where David comes into this. I think we just heard a lot about his life and his philosophy and what he's been going through, but I don't know if he has that same kind of core relationship with everyone else.

So I think they will get together. But I'm curious to just see how this all shapes up. Yeah. And you know, getting to the the the four members of the new Vula tribe, who seem like they really want to work together. They were at a pretty low point. It sucks voting somebody out, even if it's somebody you're happy to vote out. It still kind of sucks because you have to see them be very. Even when you voted out Rome.

I saw most of the time, it really sucks when you vote somebody out. Most of the time you see them be very viscerally upset and it makes you upset, you know. And then also, it's just kind of awkward when you come back to camp and you're like, well, that just happened, you know, and, you know, you kind of got to figure out like, all right, how am I going to talk to the next person here? And the way that people's energy bounces off of each other in those moments can really define how you associate with them throughout the rest of the game. Throughout the rest of the game and what I think I saw on the new Vula tribe with Kyle Camilla Shaheen and and Joe was that they were at a low point and they all kind of uplifted each other at the same time and they're not gonna forget that deeper in the game as

They get to this Mergetory if all four of them make it through Mergetory if only three or two or however many make it If all four of them make it through mandatory, if only three or two or however many make it through, they're not going to forget that in even the non-strategic moments of just like I woke up feeling kind of crappy today, you know, or the challenge didn't go the way I wanted it to, or I'm really homesick today. And when I scan around camp and I look at the people I want to interact with in this moment, they're going to remember when Camilla talked about her parents in the Sri Lankan Civil War, or

when Shaheen talked about his parents during the Iranian Revolution, or when Joe talked about the struggles that his parents had, and I'm sure Kyle had some stuff to say that didn't make the edit. But they're going to remember that, you know, and it's all of those things. And you don't really get to see it too clearly as an audience member. But it's a lot of things that happen outside of gameplay and outside of strategy that dictate the gameplay and the strategy. And I think they're going to just be more inclined to go up to each other because

they have that that that comfort level with each other knowing like Camilla is going to make me happy when I walk away from this conversation, whether we're just talking about coconuts or whether we're talking about who we want to vote out next, like Joe is going to crack a joke, and it's going to make me feel good afterwards. And you know, I know I had plenty of people in my season where I didn't feel like that with them. So I avoided working with them, just because I didn't want to have to go through the social

interaction that I knew was going to make me feel paranoid or was going to make me feel annoyed or just a little more pissed off or a little more homesick. And so I think that, you know, we need to give a lot of credit to the gameplay aspect and the gameplay potential, but also the social potential and the comfort potential that that bonding moment gave for them. And they're just going to gravitate towards each other a little bit more is my prediction. I have to give Gabe a quick shout out. He was the biggest mood like moodlifter especially once we hit the merge. Like that is exactly what you were Gabe and it breaks my heart it didn't make the edit because you were so much fun at camp. Like when you got going on a story

or when you could tell mood was low you did such a great job of like lifting the mood and I think there's a lot of people where they're like huh huh, a lot of people want to work with Gabe and they weren't quite sure why. Like it's because he was doing that. And by nature of that, it really leads into wanting to work gameplay wise as well. Well, this is where Gabe made a mistake that Gabe didn't win.

You can't be running things and fun and then also not win. That you can't have that. No, I totally agree. And, you know, first, I'll say that Caroline was also very much that for me on to go where I felt like I couldn't really talk strategy with a lot of people on the two tribe. And that's no disrespect to any of the awesome people that we played with. But I was like, I feel like I would hit a wall with a lot of people,

not even because they didn't want to work with me, but just because their thoughts and perspective on the game weren't really lining up with where mine were. And when me and Caroline finally broke through on that level where we wouldn't even really be talking about our game or to Koo or what we would do on 47, just kind of spitting our philosophies of survivor to each other in ways that we couldn't with Tiana and TK and Kyle and Sue. That was a moment of like, when I just need to detox and dump thoughts on somebody, I'm going to Caroline, whether it's something emotional, whether

it's something strategic, whether it's just an interesting thought I might have had looking at the ocean, like, Caroline was the person I was going to on to go. And then to your point, Rob, yeah, it's very difficult to win when you're that guy that it's like, OK, everybody can see the edit. They're not going to show you being fun. Oh, yes. Controlling things that that's sort of like counterintuitive. And then unless you're the winner of the season, then it's like, oh, everybody loves Gabe. Yeah. And I also think part of it, too, was that in my confessionals, I was very snarky and I like to have a lot of fun in my confessionals and crack jokes about people.

And so this is just totally speculative on my part. But I think there was also a bit of like, OK, we really like a lot of what he's doing in his confessionals. And this is fun. And these cracking jokes and there's, you know, a a bit of like, OK, we really like a lot of what he's doing in his confessionals. And this is fun. And he's cracking jokes. And there's a little bit of snarkiness and smugness to it. And, you know, maybe we can paint this guy as a good villain. But then we can't show that. And then to your point, Rob, also show me doing like, you know, a circus routine at camp or,

you know, like telling a funny story from high school, because it's like, wait a second, he's supposed to be trashing on all these people and he doesn't like them. But now he's being friends with all them. That's not a coherent story. So yeah, maybe if I went in one then it would have been, you know, a little bit more of that. But no, I think that's an astute assessment. I think the idea that like your edit is very dependent on what role you have to play in the overarching story that the producers and Jeff are trying to tell and it will never be a full story. Even if you win, it probably won't be a full story. But that's your best bet to getting the totality of your

experience put on screen for sure. 100% and Rob to give you a shout out. Thank you for giving me that's an opportunity where I feel like, honestly, from like a business perspective, Survivor does such a great job of saying here's where how all the puzzle pieces, here's how everyone got voted out, let's build a story to explain every vote out and the way that things happen.

Thank you for also giving us an opportunity to share a little bit more behind the scenes in terms of what our lived realities were and some other nuances that didn't get shown. This is such a gift for the Survivor community and for Survivor contestants, so thank you. I really appreciate that, Caroline. And, you know, I think that what's, you know, fun about getting to do this is that

we do have this platform that, you know, is I started this way back when, but we have the opportunity to be able to tell our stories about like what happened and talk about what's happening now. And you know, there's lots of other like facets of like media or sports where like people don't necessarily have that same opportunity where you know that people don't get the chance to like, you know, tell their stories a little bit more. And I think that the fans have a connection to people that they watched on the show and they want to hear more from people and hear some of the stories they didn't get to see on the show. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I mean, like, I know that, you know, before I even knew I was going to be on the show or anything like that, like, you know, outlets like our have and

many others that do similar and cool work to you guys was one of my favorite parts of it, because I always like and I always kind of got, you know, just through, you know, reading what people had to say about being on the show and watching these interviews that like there is so much more than what makes the edit. It's such a cliche now and I get that. But there is. And so when I was really getting serious about like, I want to do this and, you know, I'm

getting callbacks now, Maybe this could happen. I was like, I need to understand all the stuff that isn't put on the screen. And that to me was the most helpful, like study work, if you will, was all the stuff that doesn't make it on the, cause everybody, you know, Joe Schmo and Pittsburgh knows what happened when, when they watch the episode, but it's everything that happens that doesn't make the episode that has such a big influence on the game, and such a big influence on the outcome and such a big influence on how you do in the game as an individual. And I was like, if I can just

gobble up as much of that information as I can, maybe it'll give me a leg up. But then I was playing with people like Caroline, who had the same idea and did the same exact things. I don't know how much of an advantage it gave me. But it was important to keep up with everybody. You know, so anybody out there who is looking to, you know, be on the show or wants to do that or is in the process or anything like that, like, stay off of Reddit, they don't know what the hell they're talking

about. Watch shows like TV. Because you know, reality TV. Yeah. Are half, confirm. Yes. Well, I can go in so many different directions from that. Did you read what Teeny wrote this week about the experience of going? It was masterful.

Yeah, Teeny wrote a really great newsletter that we have here on RHAP, the confessional reality TV newsletters, but talked about how, you know, what's really uncanny about Survivor, Teeny had gotten this from Stephanie Berger, who was from the first boot from this season, was that what's crazy about Survivor is that you have like this incredibly offline experience of, and I think that that's something that doesn't really get talked about, of that we're all on the phone all day long,

screen, screen, screen, screen, screen, screen, screen. And it wasn't that way in 2000, 25 years ago, when Survivor started. It wasn't that way when I played, of I didn't go from having a screen in front of me 24 7 to then going to go play the game But now that is a part of the game and I feel like it's not something that people talk about a lot about the Removal from the connection and the screens to go on survivor. So you have this incredibly incredible

Offline experience and then you have a very online Experience of and you know your mileage may vary of how online you are as the show is airing, where now all these people online are having all of these opinions about you. But could you first speak to the offline part of the experience? Absolutely. Funny enough, the offline experience of this show

is one of like the biggest, like wildest parts of it for me because I would say because there is something not only just being offline but in a way like living the way like truly like our humanoid ancestors lived was fascinating. We have zero screen zero technology zero electricity. We're going to sleep at like 8 p.m. or after the sun sets. We're trying to sleep as much as we can. We're getting to sleep at like 8 p.m. After the sun sets, we're trying to sleep as much as we can. We're getting constant daylight, living outside, socializing.

It sounds like Saul right now. Yes, completely. Because we've talked about this before, because it's fascinating because honestly, what shocked me, like what blew my mind out there is that being on Survivor was one of the most like I've never felt so at peace. And that's what was shocking. We were out there strategizing, trying to slit each other's throats,

trying to backstab and like win a million dollars. And we know it's being televised. So you would think it's incredibly stressful, but honestly, I felt more at peace and survivor than I did three days after I got back and I was trying to reply to text messages. Like just the way that we live in an offline perspective, the way that like people were like,

originally doing and like the way we kind of like were biologically designed to. It is wild how different you feel when you have technology in front of you. And there's so many different ways that your direction, like your attention is being divided. Then you put in like the overlap of like, and now you're getting people's opinions. It is wild. And I, but I want to have gave have an opportunity to also talk about like his office. So all five big things that lead to a healthy life are diet. Yeah. Exercise, check socializing, sunlight and sleep. And if you can manage those five things, according to

Solomon Yee, then you will lead a very healthy life and you will live for a very, very long time. And Survivor hits all of those things to the maximum, right? Except for diet. But even diet, but even diet, you're not gorging yourself like many people do in their everyday life. And you learn when you're out there like, oh, if I just eat like a coconut and a handful of almonds every day, like I can live like that, you know, and maybe you don't go to the survivor extreme of starving. But once you start mixing in some rewards, too, it's like you're kind of just eating for what you need to have the fuel to do what you need to do throughout the day. Right. So even the the diet one is still like, arguably better than what we do in our everyday life of gorging ourselves on junk food and snacks and everything like that and fast

food, which some people are better with. I'm terrible with that. I eat awful. But so even the diving but sleep, just like Caroline said, you're going to sleep when the sun goes down. You're waking up when the sun comes up. You're exercising every day just moving through the sand working on the shelter doing the challenges. You're exercising every single day. You're socializing in a very human way. You're just talking to people. It's all you got to do is just walk around

and talk to people. And that's it. And then sunlight, you're spending all day in the sun. And like that, it does make you feel good, when you're in the sun and you're soaking in all that great vitamin D, like those things, they do matter. And so just to kind of build off of Caroline's point, like, yeah, once you get past the trauma of like, I'm starving and I'm on a beach and I'm stranded and these are all strangers when the strangers

don't become strangers anymore. And when you get accustomed to not eating as much and when you get accustomed to sleeping on the ground or in a bamboo shelter, like you come out, you're like, I feel kind of good, you know, and I think a lot of people to your point, Rob, have forgotten how it feels to not have a phone in your face all day every day. You never experience that. They forgot. Exactly. And there are some kids who were born. I mean, Rob, you have kids,

your kids, I'm sure, were born with phones in their hands. Yeah, they don't know the world without screens. And you know, you both are younger than I am. I didn't know if you had the experience of not having screens. I think we were like the last, like the edge of the last generation that had some memorable years that didn't have cell phones and smartphones and everything. And then even, you know, nowadays work from home and, you know, work in an office like you're sitting on your butt all day long, just staring at a computer screen, even if it's not your phone screen.

And so getting thrust into this world of like, I'm moving around every day, I'm outside all day, I spend zero time inside until I get voted out. Like, all of those things, it kind of reminds you of like, oh, this is what we were made to do as humans, you know, and we've kind of molded our reality or at least, you know, our Western American reality into this hyper connected, hyper, you know, plugged in lifestyle that you don't really need.

And when you get away from it and I've fallen into all my bad habits against and survivor, but things you don't really want, you know, you can't help it. I, I just feel like it's a really interesting part of the experience, and it sounds like from both of you, a positive part of the experience, and I feel like it's one that isn't really talked about a lot. I feel like it's not really advertised as like,

hey, like, wanna get away from the cell phone? Come out to Survivor, apply! Like, I think that that would be a good pitch. So you want to drop 20 pounds really fast? Come out to Survivor and apply, you know, maybe. But I think that Jeff doesn't want and it shouldn't be like people shouldn't see Survivor is like this self help. No, they need people looking at the screens or they're going to stop watching Survivor.

You know, you know, big Paramount Plus is going to say like, hey, Jeff, we heard what you said about the screens. We need that. That's our cash flow right there. Don't mess with the money. Don't bite the hand, the feet. Right. Well, then again, though, it's tough. And that's today's perspective. And it's sometimes it's maybe also not top of mind for people who recently played

because then they're thrust on the other side of things, which is you open up your Instagram. Yes, you open up your Instagram, your explore page and it's your face on it. And then you click on the comments and it's a bunch of people like discussing you. You go from being a part of like a truly like small tribe with just like the people you're talking to. And then you go to like thousands of people's hundreds of thousands

of people's perspectives on you and your opinions on view. Where even if you try to shut them out, like you're just by nature, like we're all like social creatures. You're not built to deal with other people's opinions. Our little lizard brains can't handle this. Yeah. Yeah. And also something very specific about these shows like Survivor or like Big Brother or, you know, these reality competition shows where part of the show is we're taking regular people and putting them into this world of Survivor, Big Brother, whatever it may be.

Like, that's a big difference, too, because, you know, especially like, you know, I don't mean this is like a dig, but like older folks like Cedric or Chrissy or somebody like that, you know, they've lived their life, you know, like they they they're established. They have careers, they have families, they have kids. And like never in a million years, I'm sure they thought that they would be the topic of conversation on, you know, late night TV on social media on Twitter on Instagram. And so it's something you kind of have to learn on the fly, where if

you're a bona fide celebrity, that's something you've been preparing for and waiting for and wanting your entire life. If I want to be a singer one day, since I was a kid, like I'm waiting for people to talk about me on Twitter, or if I'm an but this is like, I just want to go play Survivor. And now I got to deal with all this other stuff, too. Genevieve very famously said on our season that she would prefer to play Survivor with no TV cameras and no show.

And exactly. Yeah. And go retinies piece in the confessional. And you can see that quote. But, you know, she would say that all the time when we were out there and a few people, myself included, kind of looked at her sideways like, well, that's kind of part of it. And it's part of the fun is that we're on TV and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then when you get out of it, you're like, Genevieve's kind of a genius. Oh, my God. Yeah. No. Like she saw What was coming before it actually came so and I think that's wonderful for her When I was when I was a young person and I played survivor

I was 24 years old when I played survivor I would have never played survivor if it wasn't on television the going on television was like the entire appeal for me I didn't want the experience of going to go play Survivor, but I do think that at this point in my life, like the idea of playing Survivor and not having it be on television is a lot more interesting. Like I'd still say like, if I do good, show it.

But if I did bad and then I've had the option of like, hey, let's not show this to anybody. Like I'd be fine with that. Like a whole video situation where if it's like not great, you get to keep it yourself. But if it's great, all over the Instagram story, we're putting it on YouTube. This was like an escape room we all went and did.

Like, okay, let's just like not talk about it. Another really big part of that, and this is something that 48 you know, that 48 got to experience for much longer than we did, is that you go out and you do this crazy larger than life adventure. I tell people it is the single greatest organized adventure that any human being on earth can do is you go play survivor. And then when you come home, like you tell your friends and family about it, but it's

still your experience. Like it is this thing that belongs to you in your cast and nobody else really gets to have a say. Nobody else really gets to have you know. Yeah, exactly. Well, you are a dad now, huh? But like like like, you know, that's very special. And I remember being very anxious when our premiere date was coming up, not because everyone was going to see me running

around in my underwear, but because it wasn't going to be ours anymore. And part of the unspoken contract that you sign when you go on Survivor is you're going to do this wild thing. Like, think about the craziest vacation you ever had with your friends. And you guys talk about it all the time and you have a photo album about it and everything. But it's like that. But then you have to give that up and you have to give that to the world.

And you have to give that to the mean Internet and you have to give that to your friends and family. And there is a union. Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, imagine if the good if you did the Goonies thing, but then you had to give it away to everybody. Like, yeah, it's very daunting, you know, and it's very, it's very anxiety inducing. And I mean, Caroline was somebody who, and I want you to speak on this more, Caroline, because I was fascinated when I was hearing it after we were done with the game. But Caroline was somebody who was like, I don't even like thinking about people

like monetizing this experience, you know, not that it was not people's right to do that, but it was just like, this was such a cool and sacred thing that we did. Can't we kind of just let it be ours? But part of Survivor is you got to give it up to the world. You know? 100%.

I think it's funny hearing you say Rob, how it was like back in the world, you know? 100%. I think it's, it's funny hearing you say Rob, how it was like back in the day, what really lured you to it was the idea of like the televised experience. I'm much more on the side of Genevieve in terms of like I did it because it almost felt like I personally needed to do this like, as like a personal journey to prove to myself like what I'm capable of, like what's going to be like possible. So I feel like I tend to approach survivor from like the purest lunch,

especially right after the show ends and in terms of like, it's all about the experience. I so drank the Kool-Aid of like, this was another way of life. And it's a social experiment. And like, oh, my God, don't monetize this. I think now I'm much more like a even that perspective there. But it's because it's what I think we're also getting at. And what you can probably see in gave and I when we talk about the show is it's another life that you live out

there. It is a pure life. It's unique in that it has a beginning to end but it is a life and it felt so important and real and I think you see a snippet even going back to this episode when Eva is so raw and vulnerable and like wow, this is a real life moment. I felt like there were deep real life moments every day, not to that same degree, but in terms of like, this is my life now.

This is what matters and what's important. And it's weird to see something that's also become so core to your identity and who you are as a person. I am a different person after playing the show. And it's weird to then have people's takes that are a little bit more like, maybe a little bit more high level, just also critiquing maybe a play

that you were really proud of. And like to also have it be one of those things where so many different opinions, where you're not even, it feels less sacred. And I feel like it's one of those things where just the, well, I love psychology. I can dive into this all day long. But the psychology of when you're on the show is it becomes your entire life.

And to have people comment on that, it takes away the sacredness. And I think that was something I was sensitive to in the beginning. But now I'm all for monetizing. Don't worry. I love our reality. Yeah, right. Yeah. Now that we're has been an alumni. Yeah. Who cares what people do with this? Yeah. Now it's I love our reality. Yeah, right. Yeah. Now that we're has been an alumni. Yeah. Who cares what people do with this? Now it's all of our thing.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Now it's my thing. 48. Now it's my talk about with our friends. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know what our time's like here, but I would like to do a little Mergetory preview if we could. I mean, we've kind of touched on it, but like this is a pretty big deal.

We're going from tribe swap for a couple episodes right into Mergetory. And I think one of the things I'm most excited about is to see how all these duos are going to come back together and they're going to have a reunion of a lot of these duos. They got split up both positive duos, Joe and Eva and negative duos like a Mary and say, how are Mary and say going to be different when they come back?

Because the last time we saw them on the same beach together, it was this. Oh, well, maybe we should just bury the hatchet and work together. And then they're on the mat during the challenge and they can't help themselves. And they're bickering again. Can I give you a galaxy brain thought that do you feel like that Mary and say can have that kind of relationship where that OK, everybody is still thinking and maybe they're telling

people like, hey, that said that Mary hit the shot in the dark. We were going to vote her out. I'm not working with her. I can't stand her. And then is say on the mat like, oh, oh well Maybe you should be a little bit more humble like this this Does say potentially maybe not actually feel that way and is just trying to make it seem like do like the Kyle and Camilla thing Of like hey, I'm not I'm not really working with Mary like I hate Mary, but actually they get along great I'm so happy you brought that up because I could see a world.

And actually before this episode, I was thinking exactly that in terms of like, I actually really think they hit it off or in a great spot. And then, but you know what, maybe they have like a coordinated kind of approach to take with this, but I actually think they're still on opposite sides here,

but there's something going on. And the reason why I say it is I thought it was fascinating that when we went to the sanctuary reward challenge, David said to Mary, I think that tribe was kind of like, yeah, like say kind of rubbed us the wrong way. Like we weren't gloating. Like we had a great approach. And I think David says something along the lines of,

Mary, sorry, I know that that's your ally. And I wonder to what degree, but like we can only go off of what's shown. I wonder actually if Mary was trying to take the approach of saying like, you know what? Say I had kind of like a hatchet. Here's all the drama. We buried it. We're doing okay. I wonder if Mary is trying to position them as being maybe now a solid three that could go to one of the other tribes and kind of work together. But like if that's their approach. There's like,

they're already fighting on the mat. Like, I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. I totally see where you're coming from, Rob. And I think there could be instances where that is true. I think everything that say says is exactly what she needs. I think she is so authentically herself, 110% of the time on survivor, off survivor, with an ally, with an enemy. I think everything that she says is 100 percent honest and true. But I think that Mary and Say could also just be like a couple who fights all the time, but is still like very much in love and doesn't break up.

But that's just their love language of how they communicate with each other. Like that could also be them. That's kind of what I was going to get to that, like they're always going to bicker because they just simply cannot help themselves. But when push comes to shove and you got to put pen to parchment, they'll find their way together. You know, that is a possibility. But also, like, I don't know, because say is just this whirling dervish of chaos and

and will be rubbed the wrong way by something that was totally unintentional. And, you know, like, say is a grenade rolling around the island and nobody knows when or where it's going to blow up or who it's going to blow up, but it's going to blow up at some point. And so I'm very interested to see how now that we're at the cagey is part of the game. The cagey is part of any survivor season, particularly in the new era, old era.

You would say it would be the first couple of votes of the merge new era. You would say it's merge Tory. It is the cagey is part of the game because everyone's so close to what you want. Everybody wants to make the jury and oh, if I can make the jury that I'm sitting with house money and let's go win the thing. But if I don't that I'm going to be here and I can vote for the winner and

ponderosa and blah, blah, blah. And nobody wants to be the person to stick out. And I think say is not going to care about sticking out. And I'm very curious to see how the players around her are either going to utilize or avoid this chaotic play style that say has because this is kind of where those chaotic players tend to hit a wall, right? I look at Rome from our season. Rome was also a whirling dervish of chaos. And he slammed 120 miles into a big titanium wall once we hit

Mergetory. So I think that that is probably the ceiling for a lot of those chaotic players in the new era. But I would also be very excited for, say, to prove me wrong and be like, I'm going to chaos my way right onto a seat on the jury or all the way to the end. I think that would be awesome. But I think that everyone's going to be looking for like who's easy to vote out, you know.

But then on the flip side of that, somebody could go up to say and be like, you're the easy person to vote out. So come with me and we're going to flip that on everybody else and take somebody else out. And now, you know, we're going to work together. Whoever that is. Maybe it's Mary. I don't know. But, you know, those chaotic players always seem to be at the core of these really cagey early merge, mergeatory votes. And I'm curious to see if say is going to be at the core

as a target or if say is going to be at the core as a target her as a hunter out there. Time will tell. But you see what's unique about say is that I think she definitely people are perceiving her in the chaos bucket, which I think you know, but due to some like prior actions I can see. But I also find her unique in that she's so honest when you're in alliance with her. And actually, I don't know if this was as clear with Rome as like on the show, but he was actually similar in that if you were in alliance with him, you've got all the information, you know, exactly what if

Rome is trying to do something chaotic, he's telling his number one alliance member. And but I think Say is in a better position because I think she tries to do that with her entire alliance. And I think she's someone too where she does very much to speak her mind publicly and privately, where if you're a strategic player, you could say, you know what? If I can work with Say, I can kind of trust predictably what she's going to do.

I trust her to give me the information. And guess what? If she's lying, I think I can be I'll be able to read her face and see, oh, she's mad. She's saying she's not mad. But like, I think but it's no, it's more so in that you can understand. And I think she's very honest with what what is going to make her not want to work with you, what's going to make her want to work with you. What's gonna make her want to work with you. And if she is working with you, she's is there a certain point where if you get on say his bad side,

it's your fault, because you should have known saying that thing or doing that thing was going to rub her the wrong way. And now she's so quick to switch up on people that now she's coming after you. And like to a certain degree, you've been with her for this long. You know, anybody in the game at this point, should you know what the say triggers are to get her to flip on you and become your enemy when she was once your ally? And like, you know, and so like, and there you go with Cedric

is like, is this grenade of say rolling around the island going to blow up on Cedric now because he lied to her and he left her out of the vote. And maybe you should have known that if you did that and you took that back to camp, say was going to blow up on you, you know. And guess what? Mary has not actually wronged her. They've been working from opposite sides of the field, but then now that they're actually in a team together, I feel like they're in the position of like game respects game. I actually really want them to team up at the merge. I really feel like I would love that.

I love it so much. I feel like they have they respect each other for playing hard. And I can actually see a world in which them playing hard together can create some fantastic moves here. And I think also in a way, like keep your like friends close, enemies closer by Mary being enemies with say, I think she's really learned and has taken note of when is Seiya gonna choose to work against me. What is the move that she respects?

And I think that there's gonna be something that they can do together here. I'm really excited. All right, well, we're at the Mergetory, and I think it's a very interesting merge in this season, where I think it's a very different merge, where, where I think it's a very different merge where, you know, we have one tribe that hasn't lost anybody in SEVA. And I feel like that typically, you know, it's like, okay, well, the other tribes are gonna gang up on the tribe

that has the most people. And I have a question from one of the listeners that Luke said, Tuco went into the merge with the most players was, what is the best move for the members of SEVA? Should they give up one of their own or stay united? Now there's been a lot of the story on charity and where she's at and people do not seem to have love

for her for some reason. I think that you all had a little bit of a lucky break or maybe an unlucky break that you had Rachel sitting there as a sitting duck, but then when she left, you were able to take out one of the numbers from Tuku and sort of like maybe have a less of a threat level on Tuku. What do you think is the right move for Siva?

I am a big, so So I will call it. It's more complicated because they have had a tribe swap and more information has been shared. But just in general, I'm a very big fan of if you are the dominant tribe, I really do think the best move is to give up one of your own. You can't just go like six people strong. But also, I don't think they want to go six people strong. I think Kyle and Camilla have something great going on with Joe Shaheen. There's other people they can loop in with David. I think it makes a lot of sense to share, you know, but I do think it makes a lot of

sense to kind of give up someone, probably charity, show that they're not just like a core six. And because we also saw how well that worked in this last episode when we had Thomas go. I mean, that new I'm trying to that new tribe. I'm so sorry. I'm blanking on the name. The new Vula. The tribe of the California. No, they were new.

Yes. But when we look at the tribe that went to tribal council now, they're like, oh, well, now we're in the dominant position. One person went. New SEVA. Exactly. New SEVA. We can now rethink completely who we want to vote out because they've shown that they're not like, they're not going to be that dominant sex. We don't have to fight that way. I think there's a lot of benefits to when you do give up that one person, you kind of take the target off you. And then when I say it, it's so hypocritical because we chose not to do that when Rachel was head or head on the chopping block. And we ultimately did kind of, I was a big advocate for, I think we should go with Rachel. Can dive more into that if you're curious, but it's so situation dependent.

Yeah, I mean, we're here. I mean, that we didn't get the chance to talk postseason. So we can get into that. So what was the thinking there? Because then I feel like Rachel was working with you and Sue after the merge. But when she was there, you just said, this is going to win. This person's going to win? So I would say at that point, Rachel was not quite yet working with us.

We got a really good experience with her at the Survivor Social Hour. But actually, my perspective of that is like, wow, I had a great experience with Rachel. I feel like we really connected. That went great. And I saw Rachel, in my opinion, connected everyone else too. I'm like, hmm, I don't think my perspective there

was necessarily unique. So that my take was I was like, hmm, I think Rachel is pretty threatening here. And in general, I thought that I didn't realize that kind of when I saw Godda, I saw Sam, Sierra and Rachel, I thought that they were a power trio, I didn't realize that Rachel truly did kind of feel on the outs with that three because at the Survivor Social Hour, her and Sam seemed

absolutely like this, we're getting along great. And at the beginning of the merge, they also were really seem tight together. And we're just in general, very charismatic, charismatic people are dangerous on survivors. So Rachel was someone I definitely saw as like someone who was threatening. But I also realistically, I actually really wanted to keep that moment where we give up a sacrificial to coo. I want it to be the next vote. I really wanted to give up either the Tiana or Kyle as that person. I agree. I was looking forward to that.

I was thinking the same thing where we can get Rachel out right now, who I didn't think was going to win, but I thought she was in the pool of people who could win. Yeah. And I was like, well, if we can make that pool a little bit smaller right now, let's do it. And then the following vote we could, I thought and you know, obviously, Caroline was on the same wavelength. I was like, I can be the toque snake, who then goes and it's like, I'll turn my back on whichever one of them you want. But let's make a Tiana, but whichever one of them you want. But really, let's do Tiana. And I want to file and

Caroline really wanted Kyle. And so I was like, I can be that first person because obviously, everybody who watched that tribal were Tiana did end up going home. I was like, I can be that first person because obviously everybody who watched that tribal were Tiana did end up going home. It was like, Oh, well, clearly to Koo was all working together and they wanted to stay together. And if Rachel had gone home that night, like the first thing I was going to do was I was going to go up to Saul and I was going to say, Hey, look, I know that we just did that Rachel had to go she

was too good of a player. She was too good at puzzle. She was too in everybody else's pocket. But I want to flip over with you guys. Let's do something with Lavo and gotta and let's try to get Tiana out now. Gabe, you said that Rachel was in the pool of people who could win. And that was like what? Like the final 11 or whatever. And so I'd love to hear from you that who was in the pool at that point. You remember off the top of my head, myself, Caroline, Rachel, Genevieve might be a bit of revisionist history on my part. I don't think at that moment I would have said she

was in that pool, but the very next day when the Saul plan went into effect, I was like, oh my God, she might be number one. Like, so I won't say Genevieve to keep myself honest, but me, Caroline, Rachel, Saul, I thought was deep in that pool because he was just like the ultimate vibe. Like everybody loved him around camp. Nobody ever even whispered Saul's name until Genevieve brought it up. And pretty much everybody's name got thrown out to me at some point, even in just a casual sense of like

no one even asked me, what do you think about Saul? Like he was that popular around camp. So Saul was really deep in that pool. Kyle was because he wasn't quite the challenge beast that he became to be yet. So I wasn't thinking people are going to automatically want to vote this guy out because he's so good at challenges.

We didn't really see that quite yet. Yeah, you just saw him come in third in a challenge. And then win the necklace, right? Even when he loses, he won. But also, Kyle had like far and away the best story out of everybody. You know, he was the dad who had kids and nobody else. What about Sam? Sam in the pool?

No, Sam was not in the pool even a little bit at that point. Because we all thought that Sierra was the ringleader of Gata, which was a misread on like everybody in the game's part. And Sierra was a huge part of that alliance. But we all thought that Sam was literally hurt that Rachel and Sam and Andy were just following Sierra around. So, no, at that point, I never would have thought Sam was in that pool. And after Sierra got voted out, I thought Sam was even further out of that pool.

So because he was so beaten down after that tribal, he got so blindsided and was so close to going home that I was like, Sam is never going to win this game. Let's just keepsided and was so close to going home that I was like, Sam is never going to win this game. Let's just keep them in here so that he can stick around. Like that's what I was. The winter pool is Gabe, Caroline, Rachel, Saul and Sierra, Kyle and Kyle, Sierra. I wouldn't quite put in there because she had such a big target on her back. But I was like, there's no way she's going to make it to the end. Is that some right to you too, Caroline?

I feel like in terms of where Gabe's mind was at and kind of how he was viewing things, I think I can see how Gabe thought that. Did you have a pool at that point? I was keeping things flexible. I don't, I think there were definitely, I was thinking much more in terms of how can I be the winner? I was thinking much more. I, I don't think I thought like huge like threat to win. I definitely thought Rachel was someone where it was going to be very tough, but I think I was viewing things much more in the perspective of who is going to be like, who's a great person I want to work with and who's going to be a big

challenge as I'm working in these next immediate stages is a little bit more of the framework that I had there. I just thought that was very interesting about that at that point in the game that because I'm really fascinated about the idea of like because I have so much experience of like watching the game as a television show but I think it must be so interesting that while you're there to think about okay one of the people is going to win. Who are the people that they don't have a shot? We're not even worried about these people. And to be thinking about those decisions in the real time is like I think there's such a fun way to watch it all play out.

Oh, yeah, for sure. And like that's like, OK, well, this person is definitely winning because they have such a good edit. And yeah, you know, it is fun. But then in hindsight, it's fun when you're out there. It's oh, my God, what if I'm wrong? What if I picked the wrong person? Oh, what if I get this person? I should have got that person, you know. But no, your point is well taken that it is like

you're kind of trying to figure out how this game and show is going to play out as it's playing out in front of you, you know. And that's also like a very good skill to have when you go on survivor is like, you know, how are your fortune teller abilities? Can you kind of see the future a little bit and see, you know, make accurate or these close to accurate predictions of how these relationships and how these moves are going to play out. And I know that that seems kind of obvious. But when you're out

there, not everyone's thinking about that people are kind of obvious, but when you're out there, not everyone's thinking about that. People are kind of just thinking about like, we'll get to one second in front of me, get to one second in front of me, get to one hour in front of me. So that's something I was thinking about a lot, for sure. I don't feel great about charity

because I feel like that the great success story of the new era in terms of an alliance working together, it's the Rebo four and what did they do when they got to the merger story that Caleb hits the shot in the dark, but then they're like, all right, let's get rid of J Maya. Let's get rid of Sifu and then sort of like lowers their threat level and then get it down to four.

Is that the way that you all were thinking at Tuco? Yes, I think in some ways I think gave and I were kind of had some of that process. I was so inspired by the way before when I was going out there and there's a strategy that I was trying to implement. I think what's funny is that gave and I both had those elements, but we wanted to target different people to be that sacrificial lamb. That choice was made for us with Tiana and that tribal council, but it's very, I think it's a great strategy to use. And it's fun when you're able to pull it off and that person doesn't realize that they're going to be the sacrificial lamb.

I'm curious how charity is feeling and like her position in the tribe. It seems like she's very clear that she feels great with Mitch and that she's like Mitch, like we're good, we're doing great. I'm curious what, how charity is feeling, if she can get the sense that she's like Mitch like we're good. We're doing great. I'm curious what how charity's feeling if she can get the sense that she's maybe going to be that lamb because if that lamb is able to figure out that like oh they're serving me up on a platter I'm dipping I'm starting my own alliance and that's such a great way to show how shady they are. Oh they said that they're like with me they're great liars this is sketchy. I kind of want to see the sacrificial lamb like

turn things around. So we'll like this. That could be very cool. And usually the thing about the sacrificial lamb is obviously they never think that they're going to be the sacrificial lamb and Tiana is a great example of that. You know, I mean, you just go back you watch that episode. She was so stunned when she went home. And she even said to Caroline, like Bianca wrong. No, no. Oh, yes.

Yes. Bianca is another example of that. I'm talking about Tiana from our season. No, I got that. Yeah. OK, OK, OK. Very similar names. They both have a sound right in the middle. That her that she was so sad, like her reaction. And she never thought that it was going to be her. Right. So, yes.

But, you know, and Caroline told me after the fact that when Tiana was talking to Jeff and we're in the midst of that live tribal of Tiana eventually going home, her whole, oh, maybe I have to play my shot in the dark, Jeff. And this is so crazy and blah, blah, blah. When she goes up and she whispers to Caroline and again, correct me if I'm wrong, was she was like, that was all just a thing. So Gabe doesn't play his shot in the

dark. Yeah, like we're all good. Like I feel great right now. And that was all a lie that I put on so that gave feels really comfortable right now. And then she ended up being the one who went home, you know, so I think the first step of what you're talking about, Caroline of like the sacrificial lamb turning in around is acknowledging that you are that person, you know, which is the hardest thing to do in that whole process, I think.

And so when I look at somebody like Charity, I'm like, it doesn't really seem like she thinks that she's in trouble right now. I think that she's really underestimating David. I think we saw that in this last episode that she was like, David has no idea what's going on, blah, blah, blah, David's just, you know, long for the Ryan. Everyone's Pat and David on the back. And then the next confessional is David saying, I would really like to see charity go home.

So I don't quite think that she has had that acknowledgement yet. But, you know, sometimes it just takes a little nudge and you're like, oh, my God, my waters are much more unsteady than I thought they were. So I think that charity is in the most trouble coming into the Merge. But here's why I'm worried about the old Vula tribe of Cedric, say, and Mary. I feel like that typically being the people that are sort of like in the minority tribe, but the like Tika 3 example or, you know, back to like

Malcolm in Denise or or like when people are, there's just a couple of people, it's almost like, oh, we're not worried about those people coming over and we're going to pick them up. I think the problem is, is that the two powerful tribes have kind of like got together in the middle. And I think that's just not enough pieces for them to go after other than, okay, once charity is gone, I don't think they're going to target Mitch. I think they're going to start looking at Cedric and say, and Mary. Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right there.

And it's, I'm very curious to see how it plays out. So I do think the Tika three did well because they really, from what I've heard from behind the scenes, such as, you know, on podcasts, such as yours, is that they did a very good job of making it seem like they did not like each other, that they were continuously bickering and that they were really at odds. Well, I think Jam Jam and Carolyn might have really been bickering. That's true. They might have been really fighting. Yeah, that's true. But then also it was one of those things where they were able to like have those little rifts,

but then they had that like solid like respect for each other's gameplay and the understanding of here's how we're going to move forward. They and Mary could have that. They could end up developing that where like they're genuinely bickering, but they're able to have that same like, again, they share that philosophy, the mentality of what survivor is. What does it mean to be a good survivor player? It means to be like balls to the wall, going all out, making big, gigantic moves.

When you have that shared mentality, I think they could end up developing something really great there. And honestly, maybe they're sacri... I just have to say, maybe they're sacrilegious. I'm a Cedric where they're like, I think it could be like, oh, we're not a strong three. Goodbye, Cedric. And then they're secretly working together the rest of the game. And looking at them as targets, you know, as potential targets,

the Vula three that are left, it's interesting because, you know, again, like I said, I think say is somebody that people might be like, she's so chaotic and so unpredictable and will just say anything at any point that like, let's just get her out of here and deal with whatever else we have to deal with afterwards. But then I also look at it as, you know, like you said, Rob, that these two power tribes that are still left in the game, they might be thinking, let's take the autonomy of being a swing vote

away from these three people. And I think that we've gotten a couple of examples that you cited already that like, when are people playing this game going to catch wise to that schtick of like, oh, we're just a little tribe and we can't hurt anybody because there's only two of us but we're actually going to decide who goes home every single tribal. So maybe this is the season where finally people catch wise to that and they're like, let's just break these people down so

that we don't even have to worry about that. And if you're part of one of those power tribes, that's mutually beneficial for both you, everybody gets a little bit further into the game. And you kind of put the power of your own game into your own hands, instead of everybody just waiting around seeing who these three people are going to vote for. You know, the Tika three benefited from the other two

tribes were gunning for each other. And that's the problem for Sey and Cedric and Mary is that they don't have that. And I don't think that Sey is necessarily the type of player that's really going to be able to play the middle. I think that she is at her best when she's part of the big majority and is controlling what's going on. I think that she's going to struggle to be able to play. I think Mary could be the person who does play the middle.

And I think that she could be one of the pieces that gets left when the little stragglers get picked off at the start of the merge and that bigger alliance starts to look at each other funny and say like, okay, well, like who's gonna get the jump on who first? I do feel like that Mary could be one of those pieces that ends up getting picked up for who out of like

the big group in the middle is gonna go after each other. Yeah, it'll be tough. I guess the hints that like some emerging insights I feel like we're getting from the edit is that we now have potentially like Kyle, Camilla, and maybe like Joe and Shaheen doing something as well. And it's like in terms of them getting picked up, I don't know if I see Mary being the one to get picked up. If anything, if it's going to take priority, David, because they have that experience, maybe we're going to

see a situation again, things are fluid on Surviv. There might be a really strong bonding moment as well with Mary, or maybe there's another shared experience they're going to have that builds a lot of trust. But if that ends up if that becomes a dominant alliance, I think Mary is in a tough spot and say to about I think it'll be tough for them to break into that. I also look at Mary as somebody who like knows what's going on around her. You know, when I was out there, I kind of I had a lot of different groups that I put people in within my mind, you know, but the most general group just the either you're on this side or on this side was do you know what the F is going on right now?

Do you have any concept of what's going on around you? And you would be shocked at how many people are on Survivor and they have no flipping idea what's going on around them. They're literally just existing in this world and they've created these comforts in their head and that's how they get through. And it's kind of like what I said earlier, like just get to one more hour. Okay, this hour is done. Get to the next hour. All right, we're're going to sleep with, you know, and then there are people who really have a grasp on what's going on around them. And they understand that they're in the middle of this game. And oh, this person's talking to this person. That's

not nothing right now. And, you know, this person did this in the challenge. And that's going to mean something down the line here. And I think Mary is one of those people that that understands what's going on. And I think if they are put in a position where they are being targeted and the Vula three are seen as a threat, I think Mary is going to be the person out of all three of them who is the most inclined to do something about it. Say I think might just cause chaos in her classic say way, but won't actually change her position very much.

Cedric is I think once he gets into a bigger group, will be much more docile as a player, because his hand isn't gonna be as forced. When you're playing with like four or five other people, you're kind of forced to be very active, or you have nothing, you know, you're just gonna go home. And I think once they get to a bigger group, Cedric's more docile side is gonna come out.

And I think he's going to be excited that other people can make plans for him that he can just hop on to. And I think Mary is going to be the person who's actually inclined to say, okay, in a scenario where they are being targeted, we are being targeted right now, I need to do something about it. Where can I go to position myself to still be here after this Vula threat wears off. I don't think Say has the gameplay capacity to do it. And I don't think Cedric has the gameplay desire

to do that, to be honest with you. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan, you know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at Fizz.ca. One of the other big things from this week that we didn't talk about yet was after the immunity challenge, we see, okay, Eva is talking to her tribe and then Star is so moved by what happened with Eva. She says, look, this is an honest tribe, this is a truthful tribe, I have to say,

I have the beware advantage. And then Eva is the person who's able to unlock the code and then get the idol out. And Star says, you know what, Eva, you opened it, you keep it. And so I would love to know, is Star crazy or crazy like a fox? I think it's Fox crazy.

I think she's Fox crazy. I think that it was this moment where, like, and I can really empathize with Star in this situation because I was somebody who had an idol and Caroline and Sue knew I had an idol. Kyle, Tiana and TK thought I had an idol. And that is a and TK thought I had an idol.

And that is a burden. Like that is such a big burden. And I am a huge believer. One of my biggest convictions about survivor, especially after playing, is that the power of an idol does not lie in the ability to cancel out votes. That's just gambling. Right? That's what it is. You're making a gamble that you know

where the votes are gonna go and you play your idol and maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But there's zero way to know. It's like if I bet on a basketball game and I'm right, it's not because I foresaw the outcome of the basketball game. I just made a really good bet. And that's what idols are when you play them to nullify votes there. You're just making a gamble and you hope that you're right. But the power, excuse me, the power of an idol resides in the trust that you can build

with it. When I showed Caroline my idol, it was because I wanted to build that trust with her, not because I thought I might use it to save her one day or something. And that was way more powerful to me than canceling out any votes. Was that after that, Caroline was like, oh, my God, I think I can trust this guy here. You know, he made a move and we still had and we still had some things to work out. But that was the first baby steps of me and Caroline's relationship. It was like, I'm going to show this to you.

Like, here's one step in the right direction. That was really good, Caroline. Should we put Gabe on the Mount Rushmore of the new era? Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm I'm pro that I would vote for that. Well, hey, the the pod father and Caroline, the silencer have said it themselves. Yeah, that's that's that's Saul's nickname for the silencer

because she moves in silence, but she's deadly. And so if you're in all seriousness. Thank you. Thank you. And if you're in Star's position, I think it's very similar where it's like, what good does this do me now? If it's in my pocket, everybody knows literally everybody out here knows that I have it. I told everybody that I couldn't figure it out. Eva solved it for me. So what if I just made like this gesture right now? Eva just had this very emotional, heroic, brave moment.

What if I like make it a little bit sweeter for her? And hey, on top of this day that you had, I'm also going to give you an idol. And now Star doesn't have the threat of an idol on her back. And she knows where the idol is. So it's like this is a better position for Star to be in than being like, oh, thanks for opening it. And now it's in my pocket. You know, from a gameplay perspective, everyone's going to be like, well, Star's a more threatening player because she has an idol.

And from a social perspective, I'm sure plenty of people are going to be like, Eva did the whole damn thing for her. Why does Star get to keep it? OK. And she wipes both of those things out in one fail swoop. Caroline, do you agree with this? Oh, I think where I agree is I ultimately I cannot believe I'm even saying this because in a way it goes against so much of like my perspective of Survivor. And if I was ever to give someone advice for going on the show, I would never say give advice of do what Star did.

But what's wild is I think I agree in that it ended up being a good move for stars game. But I think where I differ from Gabe's perspective is I wonder if her star was almost more of an intuitive move. I don't know if Star was like, I don't know if Star is as aware that everyone really kind of knows that she has the idol. And if once you hit the merge, every single person on that beach would know except for Star that everyone knows about Star's idol.

But what's in, and also I just have to say, editing would have done her dirty if she had this big masterful plan with all these different steps. But then the one thing that they kept for her confessional is yeah, you've earned it. That would be heartbreaking. But I think intuitively, I think Star can tell like,

you know what, I need to perform some like deeper relationships here. I'm so moved by Eva, that you know what I moved to do this. It actually, if anything, gave Star more of an opportunity to show her philosophy on Survivor her like life philosophy, which is you know, I'm a hard worker, I respect hard work, I respect honesty. Like, Eva, I respect you. And because I so respect you, here is a gesture that proves it.

And it strikes me, the bond that we've seen with Joe and Eva, is I feel like Eva also really respects a game player who's like that. So I can see this forming a genuine potential bond and relationship between the two of them if they share that philosophy

of like hard work deserves those benefits. So I can see something happening there. And I don't know if Star realized how much she needed it, but I think she might get it from that. So I think it's so complicated. And I think that it's probably Occam's razor that Star felt like, Hey, Eva and I got off on the wrong foot. I understand her now. This is my way. I want to try to make good, but just maybe from a different perspective, because I don't think that this is how Star

is looking at it, but how smart is this? That she gives the idol to Eva, and of course she knows that Eva is going to go back. And if the mergeatory is tomorrow, Eva is going to go back and tell Joe and Shaheen, hey, look, star gave me the idol and those guys are going to say, wow, you know, I, I, we didn't really know about star. She's one of us. She's loyal. We don't have Thomas anymore. We don't have Bianca

anymore. We need star now more than ever. We could trust her. She gave the idol to Eva. She's one of our people. Bring her in. Yeah. Yeah. We could trust her. She gave the idol to Eva. She's one of our people. Bring her in. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I can see her getting scooped in more than David, maybe. Yeah. And I think a lot of that, too, you know, is the fact that they weren't there to see it. So they can't really draw their own conclusions about how that moment went down.

Was Star just so swept up in the moment. And she was like, Oh, here, take it. Was she being a bit more of a puppet master mastermind? All they know is what you said, star gave even idle and that helps our position in the game, you know. And so, you know, again, how for D chess is star really taking this who's to say other than star, but it could be a little bit of like, I want Eva to take this story back to all of our former tribe members once we hit the merge. And I want her to kind of have this word of mouth exchange of how she came about this and how this all went down.

And they'll just assume the best possible outcome or the best possible reasoning was my motivation for why I did this. And like again, that's that's a powerful position to be in. Star took herself from a very precarious position to being in quite a powerful position now. And I have a lot of respect for that. Let's do a quick advantage check in that we have the only advantages out there right now are the idol that Eva has and Mitch has a block of vote. I believe he hasn't used his advantage. I believe Thomas had steal a vote. I think Mitch has block of vote and that's it. So I feel like we don't have a ton of advantages in play going into the merge. And I kind of feel like that be on the lookout. I think that we're going to be, you know,

there's going to be some advances hidden post merge. Caroline, what were you gonna say about that? Let's see here. Actually, I think, no, I think you've got it all down. Yeah, I couldn't quite remember if it was a block vote or steal vote. I think you're right. Everyone has their votes now, which is exciting.

Yeah. I feel like it'll be one of those things where the advantages really will shine. It'll be fun to see how people choose to use them and who they do choose you like use them to solidify an early alliance Do you try to hold on to them so you can kind of you know make a bigger play or later on the game? It'll be interesting. Yeah Okay, I Have a question for you both because I don't get to interview two people at the same time

Especially people that you know just came off the show, and you had this experience together on the island, but then kind of like Teenie, you had the offline experience and then there's the online experience of the show playing out. Do you learn more about your cast when you're on the island with them, or then there's all these watch parties, you all travel together,

you're in all these different spaces together. Do you learn more about them off the show when you spend time together in the real world? You're all in an Airbnb, you're all together in a small place. Is that really where you learn more about these people? I would say yes, I would say that it starts when somebody gets voted out and they come to Ponderosa and they do the my my single favorite part, my favorite part of all of Survivor as a fan, as a player, as a whatever it may be. My single favorite thing was the post tribal info dumps that people would give you at Ponderosa when they come back because the thing and John Lovett talked about this on his pod save America and it was a very, very astute take on what it means to get voted out of survivor. And it's that you know, when you go through a big experience like this, it doesn't even have to be survivor. But in this case, it

is. When you come out of it, you kind of tell yourself first, like what this story was, what what did I just do? How am I going to remember this in my head? And what did it mean to me? And then once you do that, you go and you tell everybody else about it, and what you did, and what it meant to you. And those two things are usually a little different. You know, there are things you leave out. There are things that maybe you exaggerate or you play down when you tell other people about it. But deep down, like, you know, you've told this story to yourself

and you know what it was. When you get voted out from tribal council and you go back to Ponderosa, you haven't even told yourself what just happened. And all you can do is sit down and just dump And I'm like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to

do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not getting voted out and they would sit down at Pondi. It was like 40 minutes of somebody just sitting there, just like going in and out of crying in like a. But sometimes it was happy tears because they were so happy to be with these people and that they did this great thing. It's sad tears because my dream's over now.

And it was just like so much information. I won't go into detail, but I'll say when Caroline came back, it was like, oh, my God, like you are not at all the person I thought you were. You were not playing the game at all that I thought you were like, oh, my God. And then a week after that or a couple of days after that, Andy comes back and it's the same thing again. And it's like, oh, my God. Like, I would walk away from conversations with Andy when I was in the game. Like I would talk to Andy and I would turn around and the first

person I saw, I'd be like, that dude's got screws loose. That dude is not okay. Like I can't even get through a conversation with this guy without wanting to like bust out laughing. And then now Andy, I think is like one of the smartest people that I know just flat out survivor otherwise, you know? So that's like the first step of when you really get to know. You don't know anything about anybody when you're playing the game of Survivor.

You don't know anything about anybody. What is that from? Is he playing a character in the game? And that is now like when he's out of the game that he's not like What's the difference between how he was in the game and how he is in real life? So and and Caroline can speak to this too, but I think he was playing a big character when he was out there on the island There's still like a little like there are times when he'll say something and we'll just be out and about and I'll be like Like okay, maybe it wasn't totally a character out there, you know, but he was really, really leaning in to the perceptions that people had about him

from that first immunity challenge, you know, and when like you aren't leaning in to those perceptions of you and you aren't trying to lean into this like I'm this helpless weakling that had a big breakdown and I just need everybody to help me out along the way here. And really in the back of his head, he's like, I know that that's what these people think about me and I want them to think that about me so that they keep using me to vote out the people they want to get out. And then I can just blindside them.

And then when I get back, I'm just like, well, I didn't know what was going to happen. I'm just Andy, you know. And so like, well, I didn't know what was going to happen. I'm just Andy, you know? Um, and so like, yeah, that was a really, and Caroline was like, you know, when I was out there, I was like, this is somebody who is just kind of out here along for this ride. She feels very safe with me. She feels very safe with Sue. And it's kind of like, bring a plan to Caroline.

She's going to, okay, because it came from me and Sue, and we're gonna move on. And then I get voted out. And then Caroline comes back to Ponderosa. And she's like, on this day, this is what I was thinking. And this is what I did. And then that transition into this day. And then it was like, Oh, my god, like you were thinking about this on layers that I never could have conceptualized before you told me. And it's just this jaw dropping moment of like, wow, like the person you were out

there and the person you were presenting is so radically different from the person you are. And it's it's a you can't really get that experience with people and any other light. But I'm thrilled to hear what Caroline thinks about it. Absolutely. Um, I wanted to I'll tie here like, oh my gosh, Andy deserves an Oscar. What's fascinating that they didn't show in the edit. I think it was a very mindful choice on their end for whatever reason was that when Andy would speak out there, he spoke differently. Like, I don't want to call

it an accident, but his entire mannerisms, the way he spoke was completely different. And it was fascinating to meet him in real life. I guess it was like it was so it was like it was like choppier. Like it was like so like to do like my bad impression, he would be like, like I'd come up and I'd be like, hey, I think we want to vote out Saul tonight. And he would kind of like, oh, yeah, no, that I I I like that idea that, oh, yeah, I'm kind of tired of soul running the show. And it was like you're talking like the brain doesn't work. You like like like it was it was kind of like like like he was doing an impression of like Jesse Eisenberg in in the social network.

You know, where he's like trying to play this really weird, anti-social kind of guy. And then he comes out of the game and when he, you know, he gets the panoramic, he's like, oh, hey, guys, I'm so sorry. I know I backstabbed a lot of people. I was like, you don't speak in complete sentences, dude. What the hell is this? Like, no. Like, who is this guy here?

You know, I'm curious, Caroline, like, who are some other people who you had a certain perception of them when we were playing with them and then out of the game, particularly those first moments when you, you know, first got to meet them out of the game were you were like, Whoa, this is so different than I thought. Truly, Andy, Andy was the one where I'm so glad to have had that experience because, like, I love surprises. I love plot twists.

And I felt like learning about Andy's true game was just absolutely mind blowing in terms of just that acting experience for me was just absolutely mind blowing. In terms of other people, I feel like I really got to know Saul so much better outside of the game as well. I never got to see the silly side of Saul in a way. When we were together at the merge, it was much more business. It was much more like, here's the strategy. Here's the way we can go about things. And I think I was outside of Saul's secret alliance. So I didn't quite get to see

deeper parts of him that other people got to see. But that vest, when he walked out in the jury, in that vest, and we're hearing from Teen other people, like how absolutely hilarious he is. I'm like, Saul. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I got to really know him better outside the game. But I want to go back to your original question, Rob, of like, when is the moment where you truly get to know people? I felt like it was in between when the showing aired and when we got back. I'm so grateful our cast did a great job of having reunions leading up to the show.

And I felt like it was in those moments where we're just brain dumping, but we're also like, or just like information dumping. But we're fed now, we came down the like the high of Survivor. We got to be just more of our genuine selves with each other. It was in those moments leading up to the season airing that I'm like, I know who these people are to their core and I adore them. And you know, I don't want to like tell their story for them. But I know that 48 took like quite a long time to like get together as a cast and hang out after they got back home.

And that's a very big difference between like us and them. And I think it's very interesting because like, right? Like, I mean, we didn't take too long after we got back home to like all get together and do it multiple times. Who's the ringleader? Of 48 or of us? We'll let 48 tell the story of 48, 47.

When you say ringleader, do you mean like the organizer or do you mean like the by- Who's by the conversation of like, Hey, we're doing this. I would say that we're the plane ride back. We were talking about it. I would say that for like most of those, you know, the trips that we do or excursions that we, we, we participate in together. I would say teeny is probably the big pusher of like, you know, she teeny's always trying to keep the group chat live. Teeny is probably the big pusher of like, you know, she, Teeny's always trying to keep the group chat live. Teeny's always trying to throw plans together and get people together.

But then the organizer who actually brings Teeny's ideas into reality is Genevieve. So that Lava connection has remained very true where Teeny will be like, like, we should do this. This would be really fun. Let's all get together here. And then Genevieve will be like, here's the Airbnb. Here are the dates. Everybody tells me what works for you. And then we all get together and we come out and I'm very happy. I don't have to be either of those people. I just get to show up and have a good time and enjoy all my friends. Okay. Is there, whoa. Can I get the, the top tier, who the top tier roommates in the Airbnb?

Ooh, that's in. So I'll say a rotating pool of me, teeny and Saul when his wonderful wife, Maria is not there. We are the ones who are because me and teeny teeny is now dating somebody, which is awesome. But for a while me and teeny were both the only single members of fan. Anika dropped a blind item. You got to get teeny on the shelf. Go on Reddit. And so me and teeny will usually room together or we'll sleep on the couch together. And that's always a good time because we get to stay up later than everybody and then Saul will be in there too if his wife isn't there or he's just crashing on

the couch with us or sharing the Airbnb. Oh, Sue doesn't stay in the Airbnb, brother. Sue says, I'm getting my own hotel room. I'll see you guys in the morning. It's responsible. Oh, well, you're responsible. And Sue, Sue ain't dealing with all that mess with all you know I was trash in the place and and and all that sue says I'll go out with you guys

I'll have a great time with you guys. I'll go back to the Airbnb and hang out for a little bit But I'm sleeping in my own bed. I'm sleeping. I you know I'm watching my own shows when I go to sleep I'm gonna have my own closet with my own wardrobe like I'm not dealing with all these crazy people running around and I respect her for it. Okay. Yeah. I have nothing else to add. I think that gave you hit the absolute nail on the head. I, what I even love is we're also coordinating like an Airbnb for Boston.

Genevieve's ring, like the spearhead for that too. That's so fun. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very excited. So far. Yeah. We're so excited for Osnab. Yeah, very, very excited. And and Genevieve just recently sent in the Airbnb options.

So we all did a poll for which Airbnb we're going to stay in. Wow. And I'm very thrilled. Hands of the players. Yes. Votes now, which Airbnb? Should the 547 get like a one? Is the modest or the upscale? Vote now. The one that's a little bigger and a bad neighborhood or the one that's smaller, but really, really

nice. Yeah. Just looking at all the couches, trying to figure out which one's the comfiest, which one's the best. And also, Gabe, thank you for being the person. You always need someone in the friend group who takes the couch because it makes it so much more economically possible for every single person. I'll sleep in a bucket, dude.

I don't care. Wow. I don't care. We're not survivor. We're not survivor. We're low-key. We can go wherever. Yeah.

That's the thing about survivors is like, you know, that you can put a bunch of them in the room. It's like, this is better than where we used to sleep. I'm curious though, Rob, you know, because it's very easy for us to do that now, because things like group chats exist. Yeah. When you were on Survivor, did you guys put in a lot of effort to keep in touch and meet up together, or was it kind of just like, we all go our separate ways

and we'll call each other on the phone and we'll see each other when I see you. So in the first season, yeah, I think that there was definitely like a lot of phone calls. The all-star seasons that, no, nobody keeps in touch. Everybody really hates each other after. So don't expect there to be like some Survivor 50 Airbnb sometime in a year and a half from now. But that being said, for Survivor, you know, six,

this is kind of sad that Airbnb wasn't invented yet, I don't think. Yeah. But there would be more charity events. You weren't allowed to hang out with people during the season. In fact, in Survivor the Amazon, that some of the people from this one, like I'm going to say names that you may not even know who these people are. And Survivor, the Amazon, that some of the people, like I'm gonna say names that you may not even know who these people are, that there was this woman, Shawna,

who got voted out, and she lived in San Francisco, and then I lived on Long Island, and they used to come, the Survivor, get this, when you got voted off Survivor, you used to fly to New York and do a bunch of interviews in person, like on television. Wow. Like regardless of where you finish.

From what? You'd go on David Letterman. But not everyone would go on David Letterman. Well, he wouldn't. David Letterman wouldn't let you on the stage, but you would be next door in the deli and then he would talk to you. Oh, wow. Wow.

Wait, when did they, I actually did not know that. And I cannot believe I did not know that. When did the ship to like, I'm actually going around a little bit now. I feel like that maybe after Heroes versus Villains, I think they stopped doing that. And did more like the pre-jury trip kind of situation. Well, no, no, no, no.

Well, the pre-jury trip is different. This is like when the show's airing. Yeah. OK. Oh, got it, got it, got it. OK, that makes sense. You do in-person press for Survivor. Wow.

And so then I picked up Shawna, and we drove to Pittsburgh to go see Jenna Moraska. And we were staying with Jenna Moraska, and her father used to work for a hotel company. And we stayed staying with Jenna Moraska and her father used to work for like a hotel company and we stayed at the hotel. We were like in like a penthouse suite in that Jenna Moraska's dad had set up and it was me and Jenna and Shawna and we were hanging out at the hotel. And then I don't even know how word got out, but somebody at CBS found out that we were together and there was a woman who worked at CBS

and everybody's so nice now, but they used to be really mean. And then she called up and she called up like, General Maras like, hey, we know you're there with Rob and Shawna and tell them to go home. We were in Pittsburgh and we had to like, like pick me and Shawna. Just had to leave and like, all right, we weren't like supposed to go home. So the next day we just got like, had to get in the car and drive back to New York from Pittsburgh because they

found out somebody knocked on us. Who even like could have narco like how many people knew we were doing? We got spotted on the street or something or what? That's crazy, dude. Oh, my God. Something they yelled at us. Yeah, that's crazy. Or social media when you just have like there was no Reddit to be like, oh, yeah, look at this. I took that.

I was going to say is that I feel like they would be more strict today about it. I don't know if I was on Survivor Sucks or what but some of these had like like what what is how dare you get up like Oh my god Busted by the principal and we yelled at us and then we had to just drive home and it's like It was like 7 o'clock at night like like bleary-eyed trying to drive home from like we stopped at like Sean how would they have known that what if you didn't drive? I don't know Again and like make sure you're in your home tell Shawna to go home. Oh My god, dude, that's that's like that's Big Brother stuff. Not the like

So that's that's George Orwell right there Yeah, like that's big brothers watching you really you couldn't go see anybody that there was very very frowned upon Well, I hope I don't get any trouble, but we was going on trips I mean they let you get you all live like, you know I didn't really even come around like in the last couple years of the vets CBS has viewing parties and stuff like that. And look, who cares? Everybody knows each other. The cast hangs out. It's fine.

I'm I'm I'm curious on your take on this, too. And if you don't want to get into this, that's fine. But I'm curious that like now, like Bryce and when I've been doing their thing for so long and it's kind of becoming a bit of like an established institution, for lack of a better term. You know, what you guys are doing here is a legitimate institution in the survivor community. Do you think that CBS and survivor have kind of just been hanging back and being

like, this is interesting, let's see where it goes. And now that it has become so established, and the legs are so strong, that they're like, okay, now that it's a thing, we're gonna come in, and now we're going to do beach drops and now we're going to do watch parties. Like, do you think this was all calculated by CBS and they kind of wanted you guys to do the dirty work? No, no, I don't think it was like sort of like, like, let's let them like, you know, take the chances and see what happens. But I think there is like a proof of concept. And I think that what's really wonderful about Survivor, and it's the only show on television

where you could be a fan of the show, and you're watching Survivor, and then it's also like that the next week, I'm gonna go out to a party in my town and then hang out with the people that are on the show, and they're taking pictures with me, and it's great. And when I watch the George and Mandy's first marriage, like I'm not hanging out with George and Mandy if I'm the biggest super fan of the show.

So I think it's really cool. I mean, we went to the thing that was the premiere in New York and that was a really awesome event that they had. I think it's the best one they've done so far. Yeah. And they're going all over the city. So I don't think it impacts anything that I'm doing or what Bryce and Wendell are doing. And I think it's really exciting to, you know, to be a Survivor fan that it's like an immersive experience now that you just to be able to just watch the show.

And now you're like in the show. Yeah, I just, I think it's interesting how like the show. Yeah, I just I think it's interesting how like the show created this community and now the community has become so strong that it is now creating things for the show like these watch parties and like these beach drops

and things like that. Like, I don't know if those would be a thing of Bryson Wynn and our have and Rod Clark and things like that didn't exist, you know. So it's interesting how they've grown this thing in this community so big that now the community is creating things for the studio.

You don't really see that anywhere else. Well, I think that these in-person activations are such a big deal for all sorts of different media. And so maybe there was some proof of concept of like, hey, look around the country. There's all these different viewing parties around there. Like we should be doing that. We can be doing screenings and get out merch

and tell people about what other people are doing and get Jeff out there. And so I think it's a really positive experience for everybody. And I don't view it as competition at all. Sure, yeah, yeah. How do you all enhance each other? I think if my one friend is fantastic, it's like, I can't wait to go to the next Survivor event. Here's the RHAB one I'm going to go to. Here's

like the Ron Clark one I'm going to go to. I think they build on each other and help promote each other. Yeah. Yeah. I think all of it is kind of the symbiotic relationship where it's everything's kind of making everything better, you know? And I'm really excited to see what the future of this looks like, you know? Because I don't think CBS has any thought in their mind that like we're gonna slow down on these in-person events.

I think it's only gonna ramp up more and more and more. Well, Caroline, that you were just were at the latest beach drop, right? Yes, I was in Minneapolis. In the Mall of America, yeah. Yes. Yeah, so Gabe and I were at the one in New York and then they did this, I saw a beach drop at the Mall of America.

Yes, I was at the beach drop at the Mall of America. And I think you hit on something so cool too, in which it's a community event where yes, you get to meet other players who've played, but you also get to feel like you're even more of a part of the Survivor community. I love that they set up different challenges that you can participate in. And I think it just goes to show, I love how Survivor started.

It's like, this is a social experiment. Now the experiment's taking a life of its own. You can now try to be as involved in Survivor as you can be, aside from being a castmate on a season. And you know what? We're taking over. I want there to be more Survivor events and more colleges, every single college.

Let's just turn the United States, all of North America. Everyone should be a Survivor fan going to these events. I think it's really kind of brilliant because the fans go out and then the survivors are there and the challenges are there and they're all posting pictures on their Instagram. And, you know, then they're advertising basically, you know, everybody that knows that person is like either like, hey, what's this? Or I didn't know you were a survivor fan.

And so it gets people like organically talking about the shows. And so it's a cool thing that they do for the fans. And like, I can even say, you know, I was doing watch parties every week in Baltimore when our season was coming out and like, I was like, Oh, this is just going to be like something cool that like my friends and family can come out to every week. And it's at the bar. We're like, we're good friends with the owner and like, this would be cool. And then by the end of it, there were more people showing up to these watch parties that

I didn't know than people that I did know. And it was just like, Oh, they can come out and like, you know be cool. And then by the end of it, there were more people showing up to these watch parties that I didn't know than people that I did know. And it was just like, oh, they were kind of bringing the community together a little bit here. And that was never anything I foresaw. But now that I've been in it and I've been to so many of these events, it's like, oh, these people are everywhere. They just need a place to go. They just need to be told where it's happening. You know, so much television and media is just a passive experience of, yeah,

I have this on and I'm not really paying attention to it. I'm not really doing anything. But I think that, you know, survivor really strives to be, you know, a part of your like an immersive experience for people where, OK, they want families watching it and talking about it with each other and going online and talking about it. And there's so many people who have built friendships around this. And it's so cool when people come to the events and that there are fans who connect with other fans and build these great relationships and that Survivor is sort of like the thing that

brought people together. And so there's so many cool things about Survivor that they've done right that has made it like this 25 year institution. Oh yeah. And you know, people love to like knock on the new era and all the changes they don't like and all this and that, but it's like, I don't know, it's become so much bigger than that.

You know, it's like, it's the closest thing that I can think of to like sports where every week it is this event that's happening, you know, where a lot of shows today are like on schedule television doesn't really exist anymore. You know, like there is no the whole country sits down at the same time and they watch the new episode of Frasier. Like that doesn't exist. It's I'm going to watch Frasier on Netflix whenever I get around to it. You know, but these reality TV shows have somehow managed to like break that mold. And I think it's because everybody wants to be a part of the moment.

Everybody wants so not to go on a tangent here, but Andy Heron, one of the winners, a big brother. I met him when I was out in Chicago one time. He was lovely. Caroline, you were with us, too. I'm pretty sure. Yes, that's our union. But he he had a tweet the other day where he was like, I have no sympathy

for anybody who doesn't want to be spoiled about reality TV on social media. He's the movie. You're not going to end him like the Survivor 46 cast did once. Oh, I would never know. And he was ashamed. That was a disgrace. That was a pile on him. It was it was wrong. But like, it's this idea of like part of watching and being a fan of these reality shows is

tweeting about it, like is engaging in it, is being part of the community. That's like honestly, like 50, 60% of the fun of watching these shows now is that you get to watch the content, but it's the level of engagement that you get with it. And like I said, sports is the only thing like an NFL Sunday is the only thing I can think that really compares to it. And like, I don't know if that's the conversation you're in. You're doing a pretty good thing. Yeah. All right. Well, this was super fun to catch up with both of you and get to get to know you both a little bit better. I mean, we're not necessarily like on an Airbnb ponderosa

level yet, but we're getting there. Absolutely. You're welcome on our floor anytime. Can I crash the Boston Airbnb? Absolutely. 100% you and your whole team we're inviting you over. Have your ID at the door. Saul's gonna be the bouncer just so you know. So make sure you have your ID ready to go.

Yeah, can I ask, okay, the Saul vest, okay? Was that the tribal council that you got voted out the Saul vest? Correct, okay. Did you get tribal council that you got voted out? The Solvast? OK, yeah. Did you get like was there a back story there? Was that like what what prompted that? Bro, Saul could be going to get groceries and he would wear that. Yeah, like I cannot overstate that is who that guy is.

No cameras, no survivor. Like that is who he is. He just wears that stuff. Like, it's crazy. I remember when we were out in Chicago for that the airing of me getting voted out. They were all at some other watch party other than the Bryson run one and after the episode ended, they all came to the place where Bryson went and the rest of us were and I brought my parents out for that because it was the one where I got

voted out. And Saul is wearing this mesh hoodie and these big round sunglasses inside. And he walks up to my dad, he goes, Oh, are you Gabe's dad? And my dad doesn't even say hi to him. He looks at me and he goes, is this what he's really like? And I was like, that's who that guy is, dude. Like, it's all no facts. Or it's just it's who you know, that's all his life. Wow. Okay. And we'll have to see what he's wearing in Boston

April 9th. It'll be sold out. So if you don't have tickets, you'll see on YouTube. Watch RHAP.com. Okay, Caroline, anything interesting coming up for you you wanna tell people about? Oh, thank you for giving me the opportunity for a shout out. Genuinely, I love that this conversation, Beardford's talking about how incredible the survivor events are.

Cause honestly, I'm just really looking forward to Boston here. I'm so looking forward to that. Cannot wait to see what it's like. And I guess the only other thing that is also maybe relevant is that, actually, I don't know if we wanna talk about it yet, but I know I was involved in another R-Hab opportunity that was really fun.

So I'm excited for that when that is released. Yes. And you've been playing the Blood on the Clock Tower. I have been. I have been. I'm so grateful to be able to play. We have a couple of episodes. I'm sorry, we have another episode in the can

that it's gonna take. It takes a while to put them all together. But we just released the last one called The Dark Knight. Wow. Can't wait to watch it. I can't get it on YouTube. Yeah.

I got it on the clock. Blood on the clock tower, man. It sounds like it's so much fun. Yeah. OK. All right. Gabe, what's coming up for you? If you want to stay up to date on all the cool stuff that I'm doing, head over to my socials.

It's all just Gabe Ortiz, just like you see it on the screen right here. Currently I'm working at MPR here in Baltimore. That's where I'm at right now and Studio B and PR. So if you want to listen to all the cool stuff I'm doing there, I'm on the air Monday through Friday, one to seven p.m. So just head over to W YPR dot org and you can listen to me live and tune into all the cool stuff we're doing here. I love it. What are you talking about?

Talking some politics mostly on Monday. For all my baseball and basketball fans out there, I'm going to be doing a sports show from noon to one on Monday at w IPR.org. And we're going to be talking opening day for baseball, which was today, the Baltimore Orioles beat the mess out of the Toronto Blue Jays. So that was awesome. And we'll be talking Baltimore Orioles, we'll be talking ML. Uh, and we'll be talking Baltimore Orioles. We'll be talking MLB at large. We'll be talking Maryland Terrapins who look like

they're going to get knocked out. Uh, and we'll be talking March madness, the elite eight. So, uh, noon to one o'clock on Monday, if you want to tune into that w YPR.org and just click the play button right on the screen. It'll be fun. All right. And for everybody, we got plenty more survivor coming your way because we have our survivor Q and a for the patrons coming up on Friday. I'll be live at 3 p.m. Eastern with the patrons of Rob's podcast, Rob's website, dot com slash patron. Plus we will also have club condo coming up on Monday with Chappelle. See if there's any Twitter beef happening. We'll talk about that on Club Kondo. And then Ron Clark is gonna join me on Tuesday

for our old school interview. And look, if you played 39 days, that's the old school. I didn't make the rules, okay? So Ron's a great interview. Looking forward to catching up with him. I love to read what you all have to say in the comments, but keep it classy everybody. Okay? All right? I don't want to have any problems in the comment section. So we'd love to hear from you. Take care. Everybody have a good one. Bye