RHAP: We Know Survivor - Catching Up with Parvati Shallow

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

This week, Rob and Survivor legend, Parvati Shallow, discuss her new book,? Nice Girls Don't Win?, as well as everything else she has going on!

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Public Mobile, different is calling. The following was recorded from inside an ice plunge. Ah! Woo! Okay, alright. What a course life is cold enough the mountains on the can turn blue. So the next time you want a cold lager, cold filter, cold package, core's light,

just wait until those glorious mountains on the can turn blue. Woo, it's easy to say that fast when you're freezing gold. There you are, pushing your newborn baby in a stroller through the park. The first time out of the house in weeks. You have your Starbucks venti, because, you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend, she asks you how it's going, you immediately begin to laugh,

then cry, then laugh cry, that's totally normal, right? She smiles, you hug, there's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hours sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. ["The Time Is Now"] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisternino back with a very special interview for you here today. A real treat for me and the listeners to be back here reunited with the Black Widow of Survivor.

Of course, the winner of Survivor Micronesia, the two-time finalist, the Duchess of Deception, the survivor Mount Rushmore member. She is a mother. She is also mother. She's also the author of the brand new book. Nice Girls Don't Win. It's Parvati Shallow. Parvati, how are you? Rob, what an intro, very thorough. Yes, thank you. And what a career, Parvati. Now, looking back on almost 20 years of reality, TV, debauchery,

all sorts of different things, but now here, now author, we could add to your title. How are you, Parvati? Oh my God, yeah, it's wild to be adding author to my title because I do feel like Survivor found me at a time in my life when it's like the stars aligned and I was meant to do that show. But I sort of fell into it.

But I always knew for my whole life that I wanted to write a book and I've never been able to do it until, you know, until now. This is my first book. But also I don't think a memoir would have worked for me maybe 20 years ago, it might have been. Well, you hadn't done anything yet. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of action in the book.

A lot of action in the book. And I'm so glad that you referenced your beginning because I wanted to share this because I know the book goes into your childhood and the very beginning. But I wanna go back to something that just came up recently, the very beginning of your survivor career. This was a tweet. Did you see this?

This is Haglover on Twitter posted this, a GIF of the opening shots of you. She saw the camera pan to her and locked the F in. I'm crying so bad. I saw that too you knew I love the era that we're in with meme and gifts like it's so funny how people are interpreting these moments yeah they're not Of course. I did see the camera come to me and I was like, now's my time. Yeah. To have a moment. And it was the beginning of a legacy.

Of a reality shooting career. Crazy, right? I never thought that. When I first agreed to go play Survivor, I was like, when I'm done, you just get the experience to have the adventure of a lifetime one time. I couldn't believe they called me to go back a second time and the rest is history from there. But yeah, that's why I think Rob, some things are meant to be in our lives. And that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book

because I was trying to put the pieces of my life together in a puzzle that I could understand because it seemed really kind of haphazard and chaotic when I was starting to write the books. I just, like filed for divorce, I just moved into my new spot by myself for the first time. I'm splitting custody of my child and I'm like, how did I get here? I'd never stopped long enough. I've always been running and going really fast in my life, like ever since I was very young. So to stop and really examine what like survivor was and how much it resembled the childhood, my childhood.

Like I grew up in a commune in Florida. We had a Hindu spiritual guru. Like it was, we had fire ceremonies at night. I was running around in the woods with other kids, like a tribe. I'm like, oh my God, I basically was playing survivor when I was a kid. So no wonder I was a kid. So no wonder I was so good at it naturally. It just felt so right to me.

So it was fun to write the book because I could weave those threads together for the first time ever. And you've written the book. I know you took a couple of years to write this book, but on the other side of writing the book, I feel like that we're in this new, Parvati Renaissance. Do you feel like that the act of writing the book and going back and looking at your life up until that point set you up for this period that we're in now? Yeah, I think so.

And I think it really set me free because I didn't know what I was holding on to until I wrote my way through it. And then writing all those stories down in a way that where I'm telling the story for a reader to understand made me look at myself from the outside so I could write the stories and I had to kind of relive them as I was writing them. But then in the editing process, everything's being refined. It's being sort of like carved up like a statue or something. And then it's released out into the world or it's at least with my publisher. Now it's going to be in your hands soon and your readers, your community's hands soon.

In the hands of the readers. Oh my God, in the hands of the readers. Please don't tell me what you think if it's bad, just tell me all the good things. But it has like really liberated me from any of that kind of heaviness or any judgment that I had on myself or the mistakes that I'd made. And I feel like I'm in this new era where I can do anything I want.

I can like really create whatever I want at this point. And it's fun. Yeah, like survivor, you're in the new era now. This is your new era. This is Parvati's new era. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Okay. You mentioned your childhood and you know in the new era of Survivor there's a lot of backstory that we get of all the contestants. We learn about things for what they were like, what they overcame growing up. This was never part of your story on Survivor, the background that you came up from. I knew a little bit about it from knowing you over the years, but what is it like to really share all this in the book?

It was nice. years, but what is it like to really share all this in the book? It was nice. I want like I've never been able to tell my own story. It's always been out of my hands in the hands of producers or editors or whatever. So for me to be able to tell my story with the the things that were happening at the time that I went out and played those games that nobody knows. I was like, wow. I mean, I think I did a pretty good job playing Survivor, especially given the things that were going on in my personal life at the time that I was dealing with. So it's amazing and it's really empowering to be able to claim my own narrative because everyone's got, you know, I'm the

black widow, I'm the mistress of murder, I'm the Duchess of deception. Like people think of me in the way that they've seen me operate in these games, which has been over 20 years, four seasons now coming up on five with Australian survivor coming out and traders and dealer no deal. That's it. But it's like, those are such little tiny versions of me in a certain container that has specific rules. And the rules of these games are compete, get ahead, lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, backstab, like pull people in, cut their throats. I don't do that in my regular life. So it's kind of nice to be able to be more of a whole and complete person and to share the wisdom from the experiences that I've had with other people.

So the book, I know, talks a lot about your journey and some of the healing that you've done. Do you feel like that in any part of the way that these reality TV experiences led to healing or there is stuff that you needed to heal from from these experiences? I mean, it's both. I don't think you can really tease any of it apart. I also needed to go back and look at my childhood and examine that for like the helpful and unhelpful aspects of those experiences. Same with Survivor. I don't think any experience is good or bad. It just is

what it is. And then we make it mean something. We tell the story of, I was betrayed, I was wronged, I was stabbed in the back, I was robbed. It's like, well, are those stories you're telling yourself helpful for you? Are they energizing? Are they draining your energy? Are they empowering or disempowering? So I sort of just look at everything as like it is, it's just neutral. And then how can you take the things that you've gone through in your life that have been hard or painful and sort of make them helpful? That's kind of how I live my life. It's like I just like dig around in a pile of shit for a diamond. And I'm like, oh, no one. Exactly. You've got to look for the idol in a jungle. How are you going to find it? You have to be looking for the prize.

Now, Parvati, of course, you're always labeled as the Black Widow, but I feel like that moniker has been a little bit of a double-edged sword for you. Is there's good and there's bad that comes with that, right? a little bit of a double edged sword for you. There's good and there's bad that comes with that. Right. Right. Yeah. I wrote about this in the book too, because it wasn't something that I set out trying to create this character.

It just happened naturally in Micronesia, because we had a girls alliance and we were voting out the guys. And I just said, we're the Black Widow Brigade and then it stuck and people were so afraid of a woman's alliance from that point forward that now the Black Widow has become this sort of legendary terrifying. It was really hard for me to date after that. I wrote about that too. It's, yeah, I mean, there's also a big surprise for people at the end of the book

with regards to the Black Widow. So I'll just tease. All right, no spoilers please, okay? No, never. But can you talk a little bit about what that group of what you did in Micronesia, what does that mean to other people from, I know you are always out meeting people

and what do they say to you about watching that alliance together in Micronesia? Well, I've had people come up to me and tell me that I've given them the courage to be themselves, the confidence to see like, it's okay to be assertive, it's okay to be strong and be a woman and be sexy and flirty and use that kind of sexual energy that we all have. But for women, we've

been vilified for using it. It's sort of like, you can use your brains, you can use your athletic ability, but you can't use your sexual abilities to get ahead in life. And it's like, well, why? Because that's kind of the one thing that women have over men. So I think, hey, if you got it, use it. Like we need to use all the power that we have to create the best lives and the best chance for ourselves. It's not a level playing field for women or men. Um, so I think go for it.

The title of the book, Nice Girls Don't Win. Now, I know the first part of this is the story with Sandra where you went back and forth and this has been, I think pretty well chronicled, right? We don't need to explore that, right? Right, the feud with Sandra. The feud with Sandra, the beef with squash, but that's where the first part of the title comes from.

It's the second part of the title that I am curious about. That nice girls don't win colon. How I burned it all down to claim my power. Can you speak to what did you burn down? There were a lot of boxes I was trying to fit myself in to be liked and approved of. Like I wanted recognition from other people. I wanted validation. I wanted people to say I was good. I wanted to look like a responsible, intelligent woman. And a lot of the messaging that I had gotten was that like reality TV is, it's not a like real job. It's not something that you can be proud of. And the way that

I won reality TV was by using my sexuality and flirty also intelligence and intuition, but what people gave me credit for was flirting. So I was like, Oh God, like I'm just, it's not working. Like all these ways I'm trying to get people to tell me I'm good enough, it's making me miserable. And so I just and I tried to fit myself into a Heterosexual Monogamous marriage that also didn't work out for me it was like this path that society tells us is the way to success and happiness in life just wasn't working for me, so I really had to and happiness in life just wasn't working for me. So I really had to like drop a bomb in my own life to kind of demolish that and be willing to lose

pretty much everything that I cared about, especially like family. I wanted a family so bad, Rob. Like I just had this dream of a nuclear family, like husband, wife, kids, like that home, Christmases, the whole thing. And it just was not working. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do this. I'm going to just burn it all down and I'm going to see what's left in the ashes. And if I can pick out any remains that will be helpful for me to rebuild my new life. Great. But what it gave me was

like what kind of scorched earth thing my life gave me was the ability to start completely fresh. And there is a chapter in the book in the third section that really goes into detail describing what that process looked like for me because it wasn't straightforward. It was messy and gritty and like griefy but also really fun and playful and I don't know I just feel like I reclaimed myself like a Phoenix kind of rising after I decided none of the rules of this game that the world has set up for me work for me. I'm different. It's not working.

So I got to just do things my way. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey everybody, Rob here. Over the years, I've seen the conversation around mental health shift in a big way. And for the better, there used to be so much stigma around therapy, like it was something you only turn to when things were falling apart. But now more people are starting to see therapy for what it really is a smart, proactive way to take care of yourself. Still, I get that it can feel tough to take that first step.

A recent survey showed that 26% of Americans avoid seeking mental health support because they're afraid of being judged. That hesitation doesn't just impact individuals. It affects families, workplaces, and entire communities. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's normalize asking for help and encourage the people around us

to prioritize their wellbeing. The world works better when people feel better. Whether you're dealing with stress, navigating through a tough transition, or just trying to become the best version of yourself, therapy can help you build tools like setting boundaries, improving communication, and learning to manage challenges in a healthier way.

BetterHelp had over 10 years of experience connecting people with the right therapist from a diverse network of over 30,000 plus licensed professionals. It's all online, which makes therapy affordable and convenient, and more than 5 million people worldwide have used it. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com slash RHAP to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash R-H-A-P. I know in the book you talk about that there was a descent that you needed to climb out of. At what point were you really feeling like that you were at the bottom of a pit that you needed to ascend from? Well, in 2020, so we had COVID, we had the lockdown. My marriage

was just not working at that point. And then my younger brother died in November of 2020. And it rocked me. Like it was a shocking death. He died from an overdose, a drug overdose. And I just was like, oh my God, I've never lost someone that close and precious to me. And he was my younger brother.

He was sort of like much younger. So he also felt like my own child in a way. We were super close, but had had issues since his addiction connecting because it's hard to connect with someone who's in active addiction. So I hadn't seen him in a bit. And yeah, it was just like really awful. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to leave this marriage because life is fleeting and precious and that really woke me up. And then when I decided I was going to leave the marriage, my husband was diagnosed with

cancer. So I was like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can leave someone who's sick. What if he dies in the middle of a divorce? How will I be OK with that? Like, how will I explain that to my child? So I was really like I was really just so distraught, like beside myself there.

And then when I finally did decide to file for divorce, it was like it was a real reckoning for me because I was like okay I am leaving someone who is actively being treated for cancer I'm gonna look like such a horrible person for doing this but at that point I just knew that if I stayed in the marriage I would be I would have to be giving up my soul because it just wasn't right for me. So I was like, it's either my soul or this marriage and trying to make this work. So I ended up choosing my soul and I left and then I lost like his family, which was my support system and my tribe to help

with my kid. I had to go through the process of working with divorce lawyers and dealing with all of that. It was, it was really difficult. So it was like probably a two year, three year descent, learning about divorce, learning about loss, um about loss, killing the dream I had of a family. I was like, well, I'll never have it in the way I thought I could have it or in the way I wanted it. So I had to kill that dream to move forward. So I was just in deep grief for a few years, which, I mean, it was a complete like homecoming to myself because I've never really given myself the space to

Have those kind of feelings. I'm just sort of like pick yourself up dust yourself off move on But I couldn't move on from this. It was too many things at once that were too difficult and thank you for Taking us through all that. What did you do then to get out of it? all that. What did you do then to get out of it? Many things. And I wrote about it in the book. It's really, the book really is a journey from start to finish. It moves the reader from survival mode, kind of running, racing through, doing everything the way that we have done it in the past,

or trying to fit yourself into society. And then kind of like this whole breaking down. The breakdown is really important. Like you kind of have to have it to get to the other side because you have to know that you can let yourself lose things that you love and care about so much in order to open yourself up to love again. So for me that like breakdown in the grief process was essential. So as I'm going through that, I started looking for healers to help me.

I had like an incredible community, like life just started giving me opportunities and support everywhere I looked because I was looking for it. I was like, I need help. I need to focus on healing. I hired a rolfer who did like structural integration, who helped move the grief and anger and resentment, all that stuff out of my body. I worked with an acupuncturist, a somatic therapist. I worked with I did breath work.

I read books. I had a community of other divorcees, like single moms, and we would share information with each other. I just did like all of this stuff for myself that I paid so much attention to myself and it felt kind of self-indulgent, but I did it. And I was like, I'm just going to give myself full permission because I never want to recreate another situation in my life where I'm in that same boat again. So I was like, I have to know exactly how I got here

so that I can make different choices and I need to be fundamentally different from here on out. Was there one thing that you did especially that you feel like worked or was it the combination of everything? It was truly everything. Yeah. And I mean, like I work with coaching clients.

I'm a life coach too. So I have private clients that I work with and I'll leave groups sometimes and I share techniques with them or I'll guide them towards a certain path because it's not a one size fits all. That's why I offer everything to the reader in the book that worked for me. So you can read the book and you can kind of pick and choose what resonates for you and start there and see what works. And then you'll go on your own journey. But yeah, for me, I needed a lot. I was going through a lot, so I really needed a lot.

And I think that was part of the medicine for me too, because I used to be one of those people that was like, you gotta burn it to earn it. You gotta earn your treat days and your cheat days and whatever. But now I'm like, I just treat myself constantly all the time. Yeah, I like that. I'm gonna borrow that, okay? I'm gonna tell Nicole, it's, hey, it's time for me to treat myself. Finally, okay? I'm putting myself first, family.

Got it? Yeah. Nicole's gonna love that because then she's gonna be like, okay well if you do it I'm gonna do it too. Listen she's already on it. Don't worry about it. And then your kids are gonna have to take care of themselves. Yeah, they're on it too. So I want to go back to your early days where you got involved in the survivor world. I don't know if I know the story of what led you to applying to Beyonce. I know what you said you thought you would be a natural

for it, but what made you decide that this was the right opportunity? The story is also in my book and I'm really excited about it because I wrote it as a scene and it's really fun. It's one of my favorite scenes in the book. I was recruited for The Amazing Race because I was boxing at the time. I had gotten this real job in PR after I graduated high school and I was like, I hate this job. So I left after three months and then I started waiting tables and I started boxing and competing in boxing matches in Hollywood. And then I was like running with

a group of friends and one of the guys was a casting associate for the Amazing Race. So he called me for that. I brought in two friends and we went through, they made me choose one. And then we went through casting, went to finals at the network and then they cut us at the very end. And I was devastated. And I was like, that's it. My dream is dead. I'll never be on TV. And then like a month later, they called me for Survivor and I hadn't seen the show before. So I really, I mean, I'm just a say yes to adventure person, which is why I said yes, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

That's why you saw me on the pirate ship looking all sultry, like I don't know what I'm doing here. I know that one of the things you talk about in the book is the LA casting rooms. Is that the stuff about going on the Amazing Race? There was, yeah, there's a scene about going to the hotel and going into the casting room and being interviewed for the Amazing Race. Which was the, that was really the audition. That was like my initiation into LA casting, what that process is like.

And then when I was called to do Survivor, I had to go back to the hotel and stay there for a bit while we did the interviews and stuff like that. But at that point, I already knew they wanted me. So it was a little bit easier to move through at that time. Yeah, do you feel like that the experience with the Amazing Race gave you the confidence that you needed to get Survivor?

Maybe because I was like, well, why would they call me if I wasn't a right fit? Yeah, it was just your friend that was a dud. Was that what happened? I don't know. Whatever happened to your friend that was gonna be on the Amazing Race? Well, they both live in Georgia now. I took two girls in with me who I'd gone to college with.

Yes. And they wanted a blonde. They said, bring a blonde with you. So I was like, okay. So they were both blonde. So I brought them both in and it didn't work out. They stayed in LA for a bit longer and then they both moved back to Georgia. They both have families now. They're living their Georgia lives. How did you end up in Los Angeles? I wanted to be on TV.

I was in high school and I was like, I wanna be on television. I wanted to be Brooke Burke from Wild On. Oh yeah, I remember that. That was like my dream. Yeah. And then I moved out. That was like my dream. Yeah. And then I moved out. I got this job in PR and a few of my girlfriends were moving out to LA from Georgia.

So I tagged along with them and my boyfriend from college also came with me. Yeah. So we had a little crew. You had a whole crew. And then did you lose touch with all those people while you were here? There? Yeah, none of them are here anymore. The boyfriend and I didn't work out,

so he's been back in Georgia. He has four kids. Wow. I see all these people on Instagram though, so that's, I mean, it's kind of cool. You can be a voyeur into what life would have been like had you made different choices.

Yeah, that's one of the things of that, in the old days, you never different choices. Yeah, that's one of the things of that in the old days, you never had that you just like, okay, I guess I never whatever happened those people now. You can see. Yeah. Part. Do you still follow Survivor in the new era? I watched Kenzie's season. Yes. And Charlie's. Yes. And that's the latest.

I have started to watch this past season, but I don't have anyone in my life who's really enthused about it. I need someone to be a super fan for me to get excited and watch it because it's not like vacation TV for me. It's work to watch Survivor. Yes, it's work because of all of the things that it conjures or it's just you're not that into it. Yeah, I think it's just because I am, I love like drag race. I think it's incredible what the drag queens do with their style and their dancing and all that. I'm like, I want to watch people doing different stuff. I think because I've been in the world of Survivor for so long, like I have a 20 year

history with the show and it's complicated. It's not like I'm going on vacation when I watch Survivor. I'm watching people play this game that I'm like oh god are they really gonna make that choice? I can't give any advice. Yeah. Now I know that later on this year, there's going to be a season of Australian Survivor that you participated in. What was the appeal to go and do Survivor for the fifth time? Well, you know, they called me and they said, how would you feel if we said you could play the best game in the world against an international cast in like 16 days? And I said, sign me up. And

it was in Samoa, which is a place I have unfinished business, Rob, as you know. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. That we happen to be, it's 15 years since Heroes vs. Villains and we happen to be doing a rewatch. So I'm very familiar with your work there. Okay, well I have some serious unfinished business in Samoa, the last time I left there, I left something very important. So I said, I'm gonna go get that back. And also, I'm a mom, so I have a young kid

that I need to take care of, it's really hard to leave for, I mean, for a 39 day season or like a regular Australian season, which is like 50 days or something crazy that would not work for my life anymore. So when we said it's a shortened game with international players from around the world in Samoa, I instantly was a yes. Yeah. I know some people complain about, hey, shorter, the season's too short, but for the players, it's like, hey, that's better for my schedule, right? It works for my schedule. If you want to get returning players who are vets of Survivor, do a shorter season.

Like you're still going to get epic gameplay. Survivors, they shortened from 39 days to 26 days, but then they stopped bringing back any returning players. Yeah. I don't know what the, their choices are their choices. I have no, nothing to say about their choices. Until now, until now. Now I hear people are going to come back. But nobody's come back since they've gone to 26 days, except for Bruce. Do you know who Bruce is? Medical evac Bruce? Yes, yes, he hit his head. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you were talking about the other Bruce who I saw at LAX the other day. Bruce Kenneguy? Who was wearing a hat, a signed survivor hat, he had signatures all over it. I was like, can't miss that guy. I was like, were you medically evacuated because you couldn't go to the bathroom? Yes, that's true.

Parv, I wanted to, I wish I had a good image to show you, but of course, you know, you have dominated in the hang on a pole challenge in the past. They recently, they just did it on Survivor this past season and it lasted for like 10 minutes because they got rid of all of the grooves in the pole for people to hang on to. What do you think of that? How do people hang on to a poll with no group? I think they just like hold on for 10 minutes and that's it. Oh, gosh. Well, that sounds that sounds rough.

Like you're going to get splinters down your whole front, sliding down that thing. Yeah. Well, I know they stopped. So easy. Yeah, they stopped doing- You made it look so easy. Yeah, they stopped doing the endurance challenges that last a really long time for whatever reason. Maybe they're tight on time. They're shortening the days.

Shortening the days. They're shortening the challenges. Yeah, it gets the tribal council. So yeah, they don't have all day to do some of these immunity challenges. But that was such a big part of your game, your ability to have endurance and be able to have the stamina to stay out there for these long endurance challenges. How do you do it? I think it's in my DNA. I do. Like my dad was a yogi. I wrote this in my book as well. Like he was a yogi and he would sit in meditation for 12 hours sometimes in his New York apartment

before they moved down to Florida and joined the commune. So I just think like there's something, there's a stoicism that I've inherited from my ancestry and in my DNA. And then also I think there's something about me that is very, I'm very good at, I can dissociate. I can like, if there's pain in my body, I can bounce to a new place. Like I'll be in, in a tree, I'll be on the butterfly that's flying or like I can outlast people because I'm really good at suffering. Like I can suffer so well, which I think is one of the reasons why I was so good at Survivor, because a lot of that game is about suffering and not snapping when you're really suffering. And in those endurance challenges, there's that aspect of like the mental sort of stoic nature that you need.

And then also the ability to control your mind so you're not going into like, ouch, this hurts. When is this going to be over? Because if you're going into those kinds of thoughts, you're not going into like, ouch, this hurts. When is this gonna be over? Because if you're going into those kinds of thoughts, you're already done, you've lost the challenge. But if you start floating above the challenge, if you float above the pain, then you can hover on one of those poles forever.

So to bring it back to real life and some of the things that you talk about in the book, the ability to suffer and dissociate. Is that a problem that people have in the real world where they're suffering and they just like dissociate from what's actually going on? Or is that what we need to do to actually get through our day-to-day lives? I think it's a yes and I think it's both. It's like we do need all of our survival adaptations. Like you have to be able to dissociate

if something is truly overwhelming and so painful that you can't cope with your day-to-day, especially if you're a parent, you're taking care of kids, or if you're working and you have to provide for your family, there are certain things that you have to do and you gotta just get it done. And at the same time, there's also this other layer of like emotional intensity,

I think that we're going through in the world right now where there's a lot of uncertainty, there's a lot of injustice, and it's hard to look at that and then be okay. So how do you kind of, how do you titrate the pain so that you can, let's say like you've lost a family member and you're grieving, like how do you grieve? Give yourself space and time and whatever you need to grieve. And then also get up and do the dishes and also drive your kids to school. It really is a skill that I did not inherit and I wasn't taught. So I had to teach it to myself. And really through writing the book, I learned it very well.

So now I know how to feel my feelings so that I don't just like plow through and then get myself into a bigger mess. Because I think that can happen too when we're dissociated, when you're like just plowing through, you're in a job you hate, you're in a marriage that's not working, you're, you know, families, whatever, dealing with whatever it is that you're dealing with, we can just be like, all right, armor up, I just got to get through this. And then if you're not feeling it at all, then that's just going to keep you stuck in this really like, kind of miserable situation.

So you do have to feel it to be able to move beyond it, but you don't want to overwhelm yourself. So that's why like we need support to do that. You talked about your meditation also on dealer no deal island David who so masterfully navigated the final spoiler alert for Dandi the the final bankers temple That he talked about how that he felt like that he was able to see What's inside of the cases. And I'm so interested in these things

that are sort of like beyond like our normal understanding. Did you really feel that in terms of like the great success that you've had on reality TV that you're able to like tap into something else? Yeah, I go in to these games, trusting that the universe has my back, trusting that this game is going to work out for me. This is my game to win.

If I set my mind to it, if I say, yes, I'm going to go play, I'm playing to win. And because I have that mindset and because I trust that I can win, the first time I played, I did not have this mindset. Cook Islands, I was like, I'm here for the adventure. I didn't, I had no idea. But the second time I played, I was like, I'm gonna win. And because I had that mindset and I trusted that everything was happening for me

and for my highest good to help me win, even if something looked bad, like let's say I was tribe swapped away from Amanda and Saree in Micronesia, and I'm on a tribe with Penner and Eliza who already wanted to get rid of me. I'm like, oh, this looks really bad. Like how am I going to get out of this mess? But in the, like the, the belief that I'm holding and the knowing that I'm holding is,

well, I'm winning this game. So it's already a done deal. I've already won. In some future moment in time. I am the sole survivor. I have this game won. So whatever has to happen, whatever events have to align to get me there will happen.

They'll get me there. Did you manifest Penner's injury to his knee? I can't take credit for that. Did you manifest Johnny Fairplay getting power bombed by Danny Bonaduce? Look don't call me a witch but... Look the black Widow Brigade might have started before the game even happened. But I'm just saying no of course I didn't do those things I'm not responsible for Fairplay's dental work or Penner's knee injury but they did work out for my benefit.

Sorry guys. James's finger? A lot of people got medically evacuated. No, but in all seriousness, that people were conspiring against you before that game even started, right? Yeah. There was a whole pregame alliance before the game started.

And they still couldn't stop you. Heroes villains 2. Coach came in like, we're gonna get rid of Parv. I'm like, no, you don't coach. And both times you got to the end. Yeah. Are these people just bad at conspiring or are you just that good? I honestly think when you have a mindset that is a knowing, this is more powerful than a belief. A knowing is a held state of being.

You just operate like this because this is what you know to be true. I know to be true. I know I'm going to win. I know life is going to work out for me. I know the universe is always conspiring to support me. I know everything, even if it looks like a big pile of garbage, is going to end up being good for me in the long run because I am really good at taking very difficult situations in life and turning them into something helpful for me and for other people. It's just sort of like… You're resilient.

Yeah, I am. I am resilient. Yeah. And it helps because I'm a survivor. You get knocked down constantly. So you've got to be able to get up and you've got to be able to get up fast and you cannot hold a grudge. If you hold a grudge, you're keeping yourself stuck in the past. So you have to be able to let go of any kind of grudge, forgive, move on, don't forget, but forgive and move on so that you can be current with the present moment. Because if you're stuck in the past, life isn't going to work for you. You're never going to be able to see what's inside the suitcase.

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In reality TV, I'll say. In reality TV? Um... Because it's not easy. I'm trying to think of like specific examples, but I mean, well, Jerry. Jerry. That's why I was going to say that. Because I'm just watching that season because you and Jerry, and I just spoke to Jerry a couple of weeks ago, you and Jerry did not get off on the right foot in Heroes vs. Villains. I mean, I'm not sure if you're going to say that, but I'm sure you're going to say that. I'm not sure if you're going to say that.

I'm not sure if you're going to say that. I'm not sure if you're going to say that. I'm not sure if you're going to say that. I'm not sure if you're going to say that. I'm not sure if you're going to say that. I'm not sure and I just spoke to Jerry a couple of weeks ago you and Jerry did not get off on the right foot in Heroes versus Villains. Right. We did not. Yeah but you all came together. Yeah and it was what was best for our game both of us to be on the right side. And Sandra in Traders. Yeah. Like no grudge there, because if you hold on to that, you're taking it like you're you're robbing yourself of power. Yeah.

Like the power comes from the relationships and the support of the people around you in these games. Now, had you finished the book by the time you went to go do Traders? No. Okay. There's a chapter in the book from Traders. Oh, wow. I had it. Yeah, I only finished the book right after I came back from Deal or No Deal.

Okay. Is Deal or No Deal in the book? The epilogue. Epilogue. Like, I came back from Deal or No Deal in the book? The epilogue. Epilogue. Like I came back from Deal or No Deal, I had to rewrite the epilogue. Yeah. Because I was in a totally different place. So I wrote a whole new epilogue at that point and then ran off to go to Australian Survivor. Wow.

Okay. I know. Well, can I ask you a little bit about your traders experience? Because I feel like that must have been such an interesting experience for you because you come into it and you don't know that you're going to be a trader. I mean, if I recall, it was what like that you were not selected originally to be a trader.

But then by the end of the first day, I don't remember how you found out that you were going to be that you were going to be picked to be one of the traders. I was I got a note before breakfast. Yeah. So they called me and I was like, Oh no, I've been murdered. Had you already played a day as a faithful and then you became a trainer? Yeah. Yeah.

And that was still stressful. I remember being in the car and I was in the car with Sandra, MJ, and Janelle. And the three of them were talking as if they knew for a hundred percent fact, all of us were faithful. And I was like, one of these bitches is a traitor. I just know it. And I was so wrong. But I was like, I couldn't get past my own distrust already as a faithful.

So I was like, oh my God, please, I guess, please make me a traitor. Because I already had so much suspicion on me after the first round table when Larsa was like, there was a sound over here. She's a traitor. And that's it. That's all they need. That's all they needed. And they needed and they knew my reputation.

So they're like, oh, well, don't get close to her. CT, before the game even started, we're having dinner and he's like, oh, I know who you are. I won't be talking to you. I won't be talking to you. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. What is it with these people that they come in? Yeah.

Even Dr. Will showed up and was trying to blow up your spot. This is the thing. Yeah. Even Dr. Will showed up and was trying to blow up your spot. This is the thing. Like I cannot shake the Black Widow reputation. So I've decided whenever I play a game, I'm going to play with her. So I'm not going to be fighting her. I'm not going to be pretending like she doesn't exist. I'm going to play with the reputation that I have because it does give me an edge. People are afraid. And when they're afraid, they're also kind of compelled and curious. And some of them think if they get close to me, I'll protect them. So I just have to play with it. It's not something I can ever get rid of.

So interesting. What is it about? Because there's so many different types of reality TV competitors. But for some reason, yeah, that that black widow, that all these people, a lot of the men that they just like are really get very freaked out about this, that they're going to like, I'm not going to. She's going to trick me and I'm going to. Is it because maybe let me just I'm on

work on the fly because the Eric thing Was so popularized and and he got to be made to look somewhat foolish That do you feel like that that's everybody's fear of I don't want to be Like the clip of me giving over the necklace a million times Yeah, I think people don't people are afraid of being embarrassed and they don't want to look like, they want to look like, I saw through your tricks and I'm smarter than you. And I'm the one who got you, not the one who got taken down by you. So it does take someone with a strong sense of self to work with me in the game.

So, I just like really have so much gratitude and respect for people who will work with me because I am a loyal ally in these games and I'm strategic and I'm really good. So, if you're on my side and we're working together, that's actually going to be very good for you most of the time. Yeah. Who wasn't it good for? Who wasn't it good for? I don't know.

I mean, if you're like, Philip didn't in deal or no deal, Philip and I were working together, but then Philip didn't trust me. So he never really was an ally. Had he been, it would have been good for him. That's the thing, if I lock in with you in the beginning, like you can trust, I'm taking you to the end. Yeah. I can't remember a time that you like backstabbed an ally. I'm trying to think back through my like

Parvati database and I can't think of anything. I don't do that. Yeah. Not to my people. Because that's just like why? Why would you do that? Unless you're trying to make good television, which I never try to do because I know that the reality. You don't have to try. to do because I know that the reality. You don't have to try. I don't have to try. You can just do it. Yes, you just do it. Bring up the clip when you were on TV for one second, okay?

Oh, that one? Yes. My glamour shot? Yeah. Exactly. You don't have to try so hard. That's what I would tell any new era player of Survivor, because I think they work really hard to get cast. It's taking people 17, 18 times

of auditioning to get cast on the show. It's like, okay, once that's over, stop trying and just be, just let the game unfold. Let the game come to you. Play with what is occurring in the moment. Just trust the TV is going to take care of itself when you play the game. I want to ask you, so the book has some famous people who have written some recommendations about this book, including Sarah Michelle Geller says, A Bible for badass women. I know from Instagram you've become friends with Sarah Michelle Geller in recent years. Can you talk a little bit about that? That's my girl.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a formative experience for me. I wanted to be her love life with Spike and Angel and then her friendship, frenemieship with Faith. Like, Buffy is it. That was me. I mean, my family, we would watch it on Friday nights together as a family. This was like our survivor. It was like Buffy. It was Buffy.

I love her. She looks exactly the same. She's so cool and just no nonsense. And when I text her, she hits me back right away. And she's like, yeah, I'm filming a movie in Toronto. Like, I'm like, Oh, thanks for texting me back. Like she's rad. Is she a survivor fan of yours? Is that how the connection happened? She's also a survivor fan and watcher and her daughter Charlotte is a fan of mine.

So I met Charlotte the other day when I went to Evan Roskatz Chaos Center, Sarah Michelle Geller was my date. So I went to her house to pick her up as a true gentleman would. Yes. And I brought Charlotte my token bag from season 40 Winners at War.

I have like a fire token bag. Yes, okay, this is a nice clutch. I gave it to her as a gift. Yeah. Because I give away my stuff. I'm like, if I have memorabilia, I'm like, what am I gonna do with this? So I'll give it away to my friends' kids.

Like Adam Grant's kids have buffs of mine that are dirty game buffs. Yeah. I had a great conversation with Evan on Drop Your Buffs this week. Oh, he's great. Yes, and Sean too. The two of you together is like a mind meld.

Yes, it was a really fun interview. People should check that out on Drop Your Buffs this week. And they mentioned you, that you're one of the few people that he would like to have in his inner circle from the Survivor alumni. Yeah, I love it. Evan and I, we are kindred spirits. Mm-hmm. Very fun guy and I bump into him all the time now. Now also, Bowen Yang gave some accolades also. Survivor legend and gay icon, Poverty Shallow has won my heart all over again. What is your relationship with Bowen Yang? Well, I met those guys Bowen and Matt on Lost Culturistas.

Like a few years ago, they interviewed me for their podcast. Yes. And they were like huge fans and knew so much about me. It was such a fun interview and we just stayed in touch. And then they did this Traders. I saw that. Like spoof. Yeah. Yeah. For their Lost Culturistas show that they did the live show in New York for their awards show. They've just like gotten

really big with their podcast. But yeah, I just, I mean, I think they're so funny and so much fun and they love Survivor. And yeah, it's like a natural connection. Are you going on tour with your book? Yes, I will be going on tour. I'll be hitting different cities all over the US, probably also in Australia, because why not? Since we'll be doing Survivor Australia out there. Yes, OK. So you'll go all over the world and do what? Book signings?

Book signings, talks, meet and greets. Yeah, I'll be doing little readings. I'm reading the audio book. I'm doing that really soon. Yes, how is that? Yeah, I've got to read the whole, I have three days booked out to read the entire audio book. Are you doing any sort of like vocal prep?

Well, no, I'll just have like tea. Yeah. It's not easy to talk for three days. No, I can imagine. You would know. Yeah. There would be a challenge for me. I would be like trying to get through

like a poverty endurance challenge to try to talk for three days. Yeah, I feel like I'm really good at these kind of intense... Don't dissociate while you're reading the book. No, I'll feel every ounce of it so when I speak it it's a transmission from my body to your ears. Yeah. I like when the audiobook readers go off script. Oh. Yeah. Go on. I don't know if they let you do that. If you say like, actually, can I just add something else in here?

Like, I feel like that really is a nice treat for the readers. Wait, is that a thing? Do people do that? Yeah, I listen to a lot of Gary V's books and he does that a lot. But I think they just let him do whatever he wants. Yeah, I don't know how my publisher would feel about that. If I ever write a book, I do want to do that. It was a painstaking process. I mean, if you're going to write a book, look, I'll give you the playbook for how to do it.

Yeah. What's it like to write a book? It's grueling. It is true. That's the longest endurance challenge I've ever done because it was like a three-year process and I'm still, I had to do some more edits recently. So I'm like, oh my God, can I be done with this book? It's so intense and it really like guts you and carves you out because you have to say no to some really fun stuff. Like what? Like other stuff like people like Parvati, can you hang out? Like, no, I have to stay home and write my book. I was invited to go play Pictionary at the Academy Awards for like the e-breakfast brunch

or something with Janelle and Bergy, like the traders people. And I was like, sorry, guys, I'm on a deadline. What? I know. So deadline. What? I know. So sad. Yeah. So that's what I've traded off. Are you good at Pictionary?

I don't know, but I love a good silly game like that. I would figure it out. Yeah. I'm not a good artist. No, my daughter's really good though. Yeah. Now does Alma watch Survivor? She's watched a couple of challenges. She's watched the challenge where I hold my arm up for six hours and she has incorporated that into her life.

Yeah. So she'll do that just on the reg. So yeah, my wife doesn't, my kids watch the new Survivor, my wife doesn't let them watch the Survivor that I was on. Why? It's too inappropriate. Inappropriate? Yeah. This is how we were raised, Rob. This is, yes, this is how we were raised.

That's right. These kids need to see. They need to see it. She says no, it's inappropriate. And mostly it's me being inappropriate is her problem. One day they'll be able to watch. One day. One day they're almost old enough to be able to watch.

Their father's legacy. Do they want to do podcasting? So it's funny that my older son, that he has a YouTube channel with his friends and then he was like works on this and Him and his friends may or may not be rapping. Okay, I'm not I'm not promoting it I don't want anybody to go to it, but that so that they have this YouTube channel, okay, and Then we were trying to watch a movie. We were trying to watch our mutual friend,

Joe Manganiello in Nonas, and we were waiting to start the movie on Mother's Day night, and we're like, where is Dominic? Where is he? And I went upstairs and I heard him saying like, hey, this is the official podcast of the name of the band.

And I came downstairs and I said, he's upstairs. I would yell, but I can't. I'm so proud of him that he's doing the official podcast for his band. And then my younger son said, why does it need to be the official podcast? Is anybody else doing a podcast about the band? That's so good he already has a troll. He's like there's no there's only one podcast it does not need to be the official podcast of the band. And yet he perseveres.

He said that he kept doing it so I was I was proud of for the podcast thing, not so much for the rapping. Well, you know, he's got to add his own flair. He can't copy you straight up. Right, right. But he's part of like a rapping group. So we'll keep you posted on how that goes. Now, what's next for you? Okay, of course we know Australian Survivor,

but that's already filmed, okay? Five seasons of Survivor in the books, Dandy in the books, the Traders in the books. You pop up on the Traders now, even when you're not playing, but what are you gonna do next? Are there more reality shows to do? I am doing a podcast. Yes.

Called Nice Girls Don't Win with my friend Amy Bean. So that is an ongoing project that people can tune into on every Wednesday. On top of that, now I'm creating actually. I'm creating and going to be executive producing, pitching shows, hosting shows. What types of shows are you producing and pitching? Reality? Reality competition shows. Reality competition shows.

Okay. Uh-huh. And then I'm also working on a documentary, but that is about more personal. That's more of my personal life. Okay. So you have a game that you are designing? Uh huh. Amy and I have created a game. This is a totally new format, never been done before. Very fun. Hosted by me and one

other person who is a beloved figure in the reality competition community. And we are taking that out to networks to sell that. Right. And like as we speak. The reality community. Okay. All right. If you can figure it out.

Is it Billy Garcia? I was like, who? Candace's boyfriend? What was that like to have seen that play out in real time? Oh my God, it was crazy. He was just out of nowhere and he was like kicking the dirt like he was in the playground. And Candice was like, oh, being so sweet. She's like, oh, we love you too. And then to watch the tribal where he's like,

I found true love out here, Jeff, I'll go home a happy man. I couldn't, I was like, how can someone be that delusional? Like that off base ever. I mean, since then I have met many a delusional person. So I know how people can be that delusional. But that was sort of my first like kind of big intro to that level of delusion. Tell me if I'm too in the weeds here, but rewatching Heroes vs. Villains, that you and Candace played together in Cook Islands. Was there any opportunity to work together?

She votes with the villains, but then she just gets voted out right away after that. Yeah, I didn't trust any of the heroes. I like, speaking of having a grudge, I was like, I'm going to burn down every single one of these heroes because Amanda was lying to me. Candice, there was something about, I don't know if Candice like had some issue with me or something, but I feel like we were just not connecting like we did back in our Cook Islands days. And Candace's, she was like closer with the boys. So I knew at that point, like Russell kind of had everyone sort of wrapped around

his finger. He was selling them so many ideas and lies. And I think at that point where, when we'd merged, they had already been so, had their heels dug in against me by JT. And sort of, sort of they had to like fulfill that promise or pledge to him after he was blindsided. They're like, oh, we got to get rid of Parv. I think it would have backfired on me if I would have played with Candice.

Okay. But then she didn't vote for me at the end and I was like, dang girl, come on. Can I give you one more Heroes vs. Villains question? Okay. Okay. All right, so we recently watched the episode where you play the two idols. Perhaps the biggest move in Survivor history when you did that, play the two idols. Perhaps the biggest move in Survivor history

when you did that, play the two idols, you have the one idol, Russell gives you the second idol. It's not exactly clear in the episode. At what point do you decide that you are going to do this? It's a surprise to the viewer when it happens. And it seems like that, you know, when you come into the merge, people, you say people aren't really talking to you, you can sense that it's not really going your way. I think maybe you're thinking, okay,

I'll just have to play my idol tonight. But at what point did you come up with the idea to play both of the idols? Well, Danielle and I had taken a walk to the well and we talked about it. I was like, okay, here's the deal. Like you're safe, you got the necklace. They're not going to vote for me because they know I have an idol. They're not going to vote for Russell. So it's either Sandra or Jerry.

And she's like, well, you got two. And I was like, I know, but I want to keep one. And so it was sort of like she and I had that dialogue because I don't usually come up with stuff in a vacuum. I'm like, I'm a team player. So when I talk through things, I talk through things with people and then I chew on it for a little bit

and then I'll make my decision. Usually that's how it works. Like I don't just like figure it all out on my own. So I had that chat with her and I was like, yeah, man, I guess I have to use them both. If I don't have a sense of where the vote is going and Tribal doesn't give me any information, then I would be willing to do this,

but it leaves me so exposed. And I just trusted that Danielle would have my back after that and that I would have to do damage control with Russell, but he loved me so much. I was like, I think I can get him back even if I burn him with this move. And this would endet Jerry and Sandra to me. So I was like, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it to like build the, the like good feelings in the relationship with the girls so that they'll protect me moving forward. It worked with Jerry.

I think, well, I guess Sandra was still trying to flip to the heroes then after that. And even Russell was still on your side up until, I'm not sure exactly what his breaking point was. I think that maybe when Danielle got the clue to the idol and then he went and stole it from her and then he played it wrong. And then you guys like nice going Russell. Can't even remember. Yeah. Anyway, anyway, it was wonderful to watch the first time and it still holds up 15 years later. Okay. Povertyshallow.com, people can go and pre-order the book. They could go to Poverty's Instagram

and they can pre-order the book there. Do people, should they just wait until the book goes on sale or is there some benefit to do the pre-order now? Because some people like to procrastinate. Oh, well, if you pre-order it, like you just go on and pre-order it, that helps me with just my like book sales numbers as a first-time author. You know, I want this book to do really well. But what's in it for you is you can get a signed copy of this book. If you go to my Instagram

right now, there's a link in my bio to get a signed copy of the book, whether you're in one of the cities that I go to on my tour or not. And you'll get it delivered to your house on the day that the book is available. So if you're like me, I am also a procrastinator, but I have started doing this with like certain items of clothing that I really love. I will put myself on the wait list. This is not a normal thing for me, but I've started to do it. And then I get an email when it's off the wait list and I'm like, yes, oh my gosh, I'm actually the first to know. And then I get the thing that I really wanted. So I'm finding there's a lot of joy in pre-ordering. So I just want to drop that seed for you.

Beautiful listeners. Now, Parvati, you were also saying that there was something special we could do for the RHAP listeners before we came on. Yeah. Well, I think for your community, because you and I have been friends for so long and your community is so devoted, I would love to offer something to your community that's really special. So for anyone who buys the book, you pre-order the book and then screenshot the order, and then we're going to put your name into a drawing. So let us

know. We'll put your name into a drawing and then I will have a Zoom call with one of your lucky listeners, whoever wins. Okay. All right. So if you want to get a Zoom call with Parvati, you know what to do. Or FaceTime. I mean, I'll tell you what, Rob. The cameo requests that have been coming through for me are really funny these days. Okay. Why? What are they doing? I'm just, I'm on my game. I'm just saying. I'm really on my game. Okay. Yeah. I've known Parvati for so long that it's what now like going on 15 years of knowing

Parvati and Parvati, I remember even when Dominic was in utero that you were doing some, what, Reiki healing on Nicole. Do you think that that's what made him be the rapper he is today? Yeah, I think, I think so. I did send some vibes. I was probably listening to a lot of T-Pain, maybe Nelly at the time.

So we got some mace. It's like spiritual rap. Well, Parv, I know you're super busy these days, so thank you for making some time to come on and talk with us. Anything else you want to let people know? Just go listen to my podcast, Nice Girls Don't Win. And then you can always catch up with me on Instagram. I'm posting pretty frequently there. Okay. And I can't wait to meet you on my book tour. You come out to the cities that I'm at.

So all, all that information will be on my... What cities are you going to? Okay. I know, well, I, it's not fully lined up yet, but for sure New York and I will be in LA. Our launch party is going to be in LA. Raleigh? Oh, should I swing by your house? Should we have a party at your house? Sure. We'd love it.

Nicole will be thrilled. Rob, I got to go pick up my daughter from school. Okay. All right. So, well, thank you for joining us. Okay. Okay. Love you. Give Nicole a big hug for me. She's the best. Bye. Bye.