RHAP: We Know Survivor - Drew Basile and Austin Li Coon Recap Survivor 49 Ep 11

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Drew Basile and Austin Li Coon Recap Survivor 49 Ep 11 Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor 45 favorites, Austin Li Coon and Drew Basile, for an energetic recap of Survivor 49, Episode 11. They look in to the evolving game dynamics and recent developments in Survivor 49. The conversation is packed with big-picture analysis, personal reflections, and plenty of playful moments. Rob leads Austin and Drew through a thoughtful conversation about the changing meta of Survivor, spotlighting trends like the disappearance of the floater archetype and the rise of tight alliance groups. They break down Survivor 49’s pivotal final seven vote, discuss the strategic implications (and comedy) of advantages like the vote block and knowledge is power, and reflect on their own gameplay and observations from the edge. The panel discuss: the evolution of game strategy, calling out both the strengths and downfalls of Survivor’s current format. Survivor 45 tales of post-reward motion sickness, boys’ night at camp, and why eating a fish eyeball wasn’t the worst thing he ate on the island. Survivor meta-analysis, comparing eras, theorizing about edit choices, and offering candid takes on the cast and jury behavior. predictions for Survivor 50, debates the strengths of different advantages, and muses about the future of the show. This episode is a blend of Survivor strategy talk, behind-the-scenes storytelling, and plenty of laughs. Don’t miss all the insights and banter as Austin, Drew, and Rob dissect the latest in the Survivor episode, reminisce about their own journeys, and look ahead to what’s next. To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com This episode of the podcast is brought to you by our friends at Manta Sleep. Summertime is officially here! The days are longer, the sun is brighter, and while all that extra daylight can feel energizing, it can quietly sabotage your sleep. Later sunsets disrupt your body’s natural circadian rhythm, making it harder to fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling refreshed. Manta Sleep is here to help. Whether you’re blocking out daylight or tuning out the sounds of summer nights, taking control of your sleep environment helps you get deep, restorative rest, no matter how long the sun stays up. To take advantage of 10% off your first order, visit https://tinyurl.com/2nsptcy3 or go to www.mantasleep.com and use promo code RHAP49 Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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And now here's the guy whose podcasts are the cherry on top of every single one of your feeds. It's Rob Cisterino. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to a very special. Thank you for the golf clap from the guys to a very special episode of the podcast because I feel like that this is like an amazing race exit interview here today. Because I have not one, but two guests here with me. Two of the stars of Survivor 45 are back together. Another great duo in Survivor as we talk about.

All of the exciting duos from this season, it is, of course, Austin and Drew are here. And I'm so excited to have you both here. Oh, my gosh, Rob. You're going to make me blush. I would have, what do you even say to that? Oh, this is awesome. Yes.

Look at us. Three of us all talk. together Austin and Drew. Look at this. Yes. Drew, are you to the left of me? No,

to that side of me? Do you want to switch? No, can we like high five during the podcast? No, it's not an Eiffel Tower. I think that's like an intimate moment, you know?

You know how like, you guys seen this new Wicked movie, Ariana and Cynthia? They're all like fawning over each other. Spoiler alert. Somebody in the chat. We'll get that. that.

We were not live. Come on. Aren't you watching RJB videos, who's Elfabah? I haven't seen it, Austin. Okay. Is Austin Galinda?

I watched the first movie. Sure. I'll take that, I think. Austin's a beautiful singer. He's very shy. He wouldn't admit that. And people think Drew is wicked.

And they want to burn at the steak but it turns out i'll be the green one you know the green one yeah all those those boats on survivor you know i felt like the green one so i like you were getting motion sickness oh my gosh rob it's not even they ferry you to these these resorts and you eat all this food and they're like okay you know get on the water and then you're in the hall and it's cook clunk cook long you know you don't keep the food for long that's unfortunate so is that an added benefit when they say the reward is be back at the camp oh yeah definitely definitely i do like with the boats you get like extra time to kind of compose yourself because when we went on rewards together we would eat so like everyone

would be up getting ready to go and drew and i would always be the last ones laying on the ground like crying like literally like a grain of rice away from throwing up so that extra 20 minutes to get back instead of being right at camp to start i think that that helps us until you throw up on the boat no i mean we had some close call never on the boat you know it's kind of a kind of a chip on my shoulder you know i always avoided that but oh there was a lot of a lot of shenanigans at the rewards i think d um vomited a couple times at the rewards right austin and then uh austin had to call for medical at the merge feast um i mean i did yeah he were lying in medical i did oh i was so much you needed medical to come?

It was kind of a joke, though. It wasn't a real, like, The Boy Who Cried Medical. An Easter egg for our most dedicated viewers who might, prompted by this, you know, these podcast appearances, rewatched season 45, but I leave the auction early in season 45.

I'm not there at the end because I got sick from eating so much candy. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I mean, it was horrible. It was like, what was it? Like, gums? Gummy. It was the worst reward.

It looked so awesome for about five seconds. Did you call it medically after you ate the eyeball, Austin? Was that what it was? I mean, no, I was going to call for a second one. Like, they were great. The eyeball was good. Drew actually had a bit, too. That was not shown.

Eyeball better than gummies? Oh, yeah. I will taste like sushi. It was like fresh sushi, right? Didn't get sick after. No, I had protein. You know, it was great. The candy was tough, especially after not eating for so long.

And then the first thing you eat is like a thousand grams of sugar. yeah yeah i've all tastes like eel it's good all right you're survivor 49 baby all right um i'm very much looking forward to talking with you both about this episode because i think that you have two very different experiences where austin you've been uh with us week to week correct keeping up all season but drew on the other hand he much like uh much like everybody at the auction with binge, binge, binge, he caught all of the episodes, a thousand calories of Survivor, all in just one sitting, as he has consumed all of the episodes this week.

That's true, Rob. Not even this week in the past few days. I mean, there was a moment in season 48, and I'm thinking of a very specific moment. I'm thinking of when Shaheen began to sing that song about chicken and waffles. Chicken and waffles. Yeah, right? Fried chicken and waffles.

That was probably the moment where I turned off Survivor. And I hadn't thought about it in a long time. And then there's Susan 49. My girlfriend's like, you should watch. It's actually pretty good. And I was like, okay, I'm just so busy, you know, driving around, unemployed. And I got it. I have like a hundred eyes.

Your girlfriend isn't in the cast, right? No, no, no. She's just, you know, one of the Hoyt-Beloy. And I've got this time. I was trying to figure who was telling you, Survivor 49, you know, is actually very good. yeah yeah that's exactly what she said and i said okay well i'll watch it and so i got it on the tv in my car so i'm like driving around my commute you know what you mean a tv in your car what do you drive a party bus no well it's like a minivan but there's like a little monitor in the middle and then you can like

play audio and the great thing about survivor in the new era is that things happen and then the confessionals just repeat what happened yeah so you're driving a minivan and then you're putting on you're streaming survivor are you seeing it though or you just hearing it no like i have it's like on my phone so i don't like look at it but if i'm stopping a light something's confusing like i'll maybe take a glance you know but it's mostly it was mostly audio that said this current episode i did sit down on the couch you know the old-fashioned way yes and i absorbed it okay okay well i want to get your takes on everything and of course very important to keep your eyes on the road when you're driving of course uh and eyes very also very delicious but you want to

cover your eyes when you go to sleep and that's where our friends over at Manta's sleep come in, get 10% off everything over at MantaSleep.com when you use the promo code RHAP 49. Okay. So Drew, do you have any big picture takes in terms of, because I think that this season probably is better on the binge than when you watched it on the way that Austin and I have consumed it. Yeah, no, I mean, like if you're watching it, metered week by week. It's a lot of time to sit with those stinker episodes in the pre-merge. Reminds me of

Karamoen in the sense that, like, awful pre-merge. And then it's kind of heats up, and it's like a pretty dynamic post-merge. I think in the broader scheme of the meta, like Survivor 49 really hammers home conclusions that you already should have had at season

48, which is that the floater is dead. The notion of like a free agent is outdated, antiquated. That's done. What you need to do now is you need to get the tightest possible group and you just need to sit together. And the strength of that bond will just plow through everyone else who's disorganized. So did it take a couple of seasons for the Rebo4 to really lock in? Is that what happened? I mean, like, Austin, I'd love to hear what you thought. But I think us and the Tika

three as well were kind of like the trendsetters in like establishing that this is like this is the meta. But one thing that's new on 48 and 49 is that like they're not even hiding it. They were the only three people left out of the merge, if I remember right. I mean, everyone knows they're a trio. And yet the fact they're just so tight looking out for each other, it scatters everyone else. I mean, you don't even have to hide the alliance anymore. So, I mean, this is an interesting development that, you know, we were a little bit more covert about. Yeah. I mean, exactly what Drew said. Don't have much to add to that. But, uh, well, I'm just trying to think of because, okay, when we saw the re-before happen, we said, okay, well,

this is obviously what's going to happen. And I feel like we do have a lot of people talking about a core for in the premurge, but then it really didn't lock in Survivor 46. But in fairness to the people that played on Survivor 46, I don't think they got to see Survivor 45 in its completion. I think that they probably, is that right? Or they didn't see it at all, actually? Didn't see a bit of it.

They didn't see it at all. Got it. Okay. And then so 47, they went and played and they did see. survivor 45, but it didn't necessarily, it didn't exactly work out that way. But then by 48, we do have people locking in with alliances. Yeah. And I think what Drew's saying too with the floater being dead, I mean, nowadays, like with so many different advantages and things that you don't, there's so many things that are just uncontrollable that like when someone's

floating, it makes it even harder to like trust that one versus having like a set crew that you're like, all right, you know, we know what's within us. So we don't have to worry about all these different things happening. It's like with also a floater who can go either way. So I think just like where the game is now really lends to this core four or this like, you know, unified unit. Well, and then the additional thing is that it's actually a very unhealthy place for the game to be. Because it's not the kind of natural communal bonds that you would have seen in like the dark era of the early 20s or like the original period of the game. where it's like a tribe that likes each other

and just sticks together and that's how the game is played. In fact, it's a response to the kind of like all over the place nature of the game that anything could happen, there's no consistency and there are constant random advantages and in this profound uncertainty,

the best thing you can do is glom together. And so then what the, of course, the show will do to attempt to stop this is they'll just add more zaniness in. You know, like, okay, well, let's add as many twists as possible to try and shred this glombing. And so, I mean, we might end up with some seasons that are just totally schizophrenic.

I don't know. But I think this is the meta currently, and I think this is the conclusion from Surrogate 49, no matter how it ends up. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't think anybody has really crystallized it like that. Stephen was talking about last night about how that he really thought that Rizzo was a very interesting player because he felt like that he, like you're saying, is somebody who has really just repeatedly attacked the middle throughout the entirety of the post-merge.

And I think it's really an interesting place to play where you have had two sides. but Rizzo has repeatedly found soft targets in the middle that are agreeable to at least enough of the people that they're able to get a consensus happening. Yeah, I think they've done a really good job of sniping the people who are the bridges between the other groups to keep them together and the opposing group to allow them to form a new majority.

Similar, I mean, we keep bringing things to 45, but like, for example, Kelly on our season, she was like a big piece. And without her, a lot of Bella was kind of unable to work together. I think they're doing a very similar kind of work here with the minority and taking out really key players who could bring the rest of the group together. Yeah. This vote last night against Sophie was a six to one vote at the final seven.

I was wondering if in any way was this at all like the Julie vote from, your season, which I believe was also, well, I'll say it ends up being the Emily vote, but that you all were planning to vote for Julie and then, of course, you know, de-tipped off Julie to play the idol and ultimately Emily ended up going home. But was that a case of where it was also like some competing interests came together all on Julie on that one vote? I think with the final seven, I mean, that's the point where it's really, really like a lot of these alliances now have like four people in it and the majority is four

and at seven that's like the best point I think when the end game is so close everyone can feel it to make those big moves that's obviously when Rebo we decided like we should we got to eat our own because we don't want to be you know at the bottom of the four or whatever if there's anyone in that majority at seven who thinks that they're not going to win at final tribal that's like that's gets them going and that's when these moves are made I think yeah I I see it like, similarly, I see a lot of surface similarities in the sense that, like, okay, there's an ostensible four and we're chipping somebody out of the four, and like both the minority and the majority are kind of going to get together and agree on this decision. But, I mean, taking out Julie made so much more sense for everyone involved, you know? Like, it's like a, it's like a first-as tragedy, then as farce situation.

Like, taking out Sophie, who was like the epitome of the floater, the least connected person in the cast, has nobody batting for her and knows it. I mean, it would be much more akin to taking out, you know, Emily, if Emily hadn't been aligned with Austin and I, just somebody who would kind of everyone had liked, but really didn't have many options. I mean, it was, I thought it was a baffling decision, not pretty much everyone involved, to be honest. Okay. Well, let's talk it through. Who do you think made the most baffling decision of all of the seven players, including Sophie? I think that the decision of the minority to target Sophie in particular was just. unfalpable because here you are.

You're against a core three. Stephen and Christina. Yeah. Stephen, Christina. You know, Sage went along with it, right? Yeah. You're going against a three that you know are tight that have really, you know, had very little intimation they're going to turn on one other. Samantha, or excuse me, Savannah, it's consistently winning immunities.

And then Rizzo has an idol. So the notion of splitting the vote, any old chance, I mean, that's very precarious. You're probably not going to get the opportunity to. split the vote cleanly. And so taking out, I mean, targeting, targeting Sophie, instead of using those numbers to split the vote and flush this idol once and for all, I thought was really short-sighted. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I think I love, though, how this, I really enjoyed this episode overall.

And what I do like is the fact that it does seem to not just be cookie cutter. like, oh, this is what we need to do. So let's do this. There's more emotions in play. They're more revenge, like moves being made. And I think that's a lot of fun to watch. So I'm all about it. But yeah, I totally agree. I feel like, you know, especially Stephen, who had so many confessionals, this episode saying how he feels like he's on the bottom, that he needs to really make a big change to then vote the way that he did. It was a little confusing. I'm sure there's more reasons behind it. But I do agree. Like, this is not good for the minority. And when six people vote, everyone votes one way, then, you know, something's wrong.

You know, with the Emily vote, obviously, it was not a unanimous vote because we got played. We voted Julie. Obviously, that was not the best move for some people. And that's why you got the vote where, you know, people got blindsided. But when no one's getting blindsided at Final 7, I think that's a red flag. So I've sort of been of two minds in terms of Stevens' advantage. He has the vote block here at 7. And, you know, he's telling us that, you know, he wants to be able to, you know, save his advantage.

That's sort of like the carrot that Rizzo dangles in front of him. And at final six, a vote block is going to be very useful. But, like, was there an opportunity to use that vote block here at seven? Oh, totally. I mean, Rizzo comes up to him frantic, you know, like you've gotten advantage. Like, we can work something out in both of our. interest who knows what you know i mean the guy this this imperturbable dude who is like hanging on to the idol and making a show of it and performing i mean he's waking his boots he's got stage

fright so like right off the bat you know like you know the target is primed you're ready to strike the other issue is using the block of vote at six um you're you're turning it into like a three to one or excuse me basically a three and two but you know again that i don't go either way you don't have ability to, I mean, you don't have the ability to split the votes. If you use that block of vote in Final 7, you could flush the idol from Rizzo and you have the numbers and split the votes. So, I mean, maybe am I doing the math wrong, but I don't think so. So it makes so much more sense to use it on Final 7. Yeah, no, it's really interesting because that he gets to, like, Rizzo sort of offers to him, like, hey, you will not have to use your advantage on this round of play.

but it also comes along with the cost of that Rizzo also gets to buy another tribal council where he doesn't have to play his idol. So really, if all hell breaks loose at the final six, Rizzo still has the opportunity to play his idol. Like this could be collateral damage where he's like, okay, well, maybe I wasn't going to beat Savannah anyway. And this is his chance, okay, well, okay, if worst case scenario is, you know, I'm safe, but Savannah goes home and I'm in the final five,

then it's not the worst case. scenario and I ultimately know that I don't have to play my idol tonight. Yeah, totally. Yeah, no, I feel like at final six, it could still be. I mean, with a 3-3, the only issues is there's so many things out

there in play. Obviously, Sophie's got that knowledge is power, which no one knows about. I don't know about that, yeah. Which, going back, like, I thought it was so fun how Stephen told everyone, yeah, I have an advantage, but I'm not going to say what it is. which you know if it were seasons what like 44 through 48 or 47 where there wasn't a knowledge of power

I would have been like awesome move that's so funny great like get people quaking but how does how is he supposed to know you know in this in this new era where any advantage could come up in any season it's just it's a scary place to be and obviously as viewers it's now like oh man you should play that because every time you don't play that you know you increase the risk of losing it to sophy I was a little shot that she didn't take the advantage, but I feel like Sophie's trying to play like a kind of cool, not burn anything until the last moment kind of

end game. Sophie has, Sophie's a really interesting player for a couple of reasons. So for Sophie. Oh, Sof, I guess. Blue Sophie. Yeah, yeah, very inconvenient. That'll be the last time they cast anyone with the same name on a season

for a while. I don't think they care. You don't? You don't? No, no. Okay. All right. Never mind. Um, but no, I mean, she, like, if I was, if I was so, I would, I would be getting prepared to steal Rizzo's idol. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's a no-brainer. Well, I think that she would prefer to steal somebody else's idol, but I feel like if you have the knowledge is power and there's only one idol to steal, like, I feel like that at some point, he's going to wish that he would have played it because it's going to be the only thing that she could take.

Oh, I totally disagree with you, Rob, because I feel like in a lot of way she has. to steal Rizzo's idol if she's going to play the thing. Because right now, she's, like, very solidly third. She knows it, and the jury knows it. I mean, she has no respect. She hasn't done anything. She's rated even for the edit. So she's in a really poor position.

And the only way to have win equity is to take power back from Savannah and from Rizzo. And so like it or not, you know, best friends you guys really are, you have to move against them. And so taking the idol from Rizzo is like the ultimate symbolic coup. Yeah. So she wants to win. She has to take risks as I. It's a really good point. I was going to say it's tough too, though, because for Sophie, she obviously did so much in the

pre-merge. But with juries, it's so hard to, you know, I feel like when you're out there playing, you're like, oh, I did all this in the pre-merge. That's already a great story. I remember going to Final Trouble Count to be like, oh, I had a great pre-merge. I did this and this and this and all these things. But they don't care. Guys, you're not going to believe how I dunked on Trashy Annie.

Trashy Annie never saw. But when you're out there, you might have that idea like, okay, yeah, sure, you know, I might have not done as much in this post-merge yet, but everything I did beforehand got me here. I had the toughest path here. So I feel like you could go in reasonably in Sophie's position, thinking you've got a really good chance to win. I'm more amenable to that if like anyone from the pre-merge for her was like still there.

You know what I mean? Yeah. You had Alex, right? But yeah, it's true. That's it. Oh, Alex. Talk about a poor guy. I mean, well, anyway, so I don't have to, you know,

why poor Alex? I feel like if you, you know, I've gotten some messages from players who've played in the season have been like, wow, you know, your podcast was so helpful, which like, who knows if that's true, you know, they could just be messaging me that. But nonetheless, future players. Yeah, yeah. Wow. I know.

Look at that, Rob. But future players, look at Alex as the epitome of what not to do if you're in the middle. Wow. I mean, like, it wasn't like Rizzo with some like sharp. by, you know, shooter, like, took him out. I mean, the guy was like all over the place, you know. It was like a classic DC politician, couldn't commit to anything, you know, and it was very obvious.

It was unfortunate. So he's not going to be any help to Sophie in the game or in the jury. Wow, the holidays got here fast. And if you're scrambling for last minute gifts or trying to make your home ready for guests, Wayfair is going to save you a ton of stress. You can get everything you need fast all in one place. Wayfair has bedding, linens, holiday decor. Hosting Essentials, all the fix-ins.

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This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. When New Year's comes around, there's a lot of pressure to do the whole new year, new you thing, but sometimes you don't need a new you. You just need a less burdened you. And therapy can really help you sort out what's weighing you down. For me, letting go of things like perfectionism or the pressure to have everything

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and if not, you can switch to a different therapist from their recommendations any time. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists, and they've helped more than 5 million people worldwide, and clients really respond to it. Live sessions have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million reviews. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist, sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash R-H-J-P. That's BetterH-E-L-P.com slash R-A-JP. I mentioned on the Survivor No one else last night about how that I was reminded of Jake. And I actually, at first I got his scenario wrong.

But Jake was somebody who I think probably was feeling a little like Sof where, hey, I am like I'm really, I'm down by three touchdowns here. I need to put a lot of points on the board. And he did have an idol late in the game. and he felt like that I'm going to pull off this like master stroke at the final five and everybody's going to see it and it almost worked but it did not but sof has a chance here to do something and stick the landing right oh yeah oh yeah I think there's there's plenty of things that she could do with that that knowledge is power to like completely steal the entire game awesome do you think that if jake had successfully made that idle play do you think he still would

have been on the bottom? Or do you think there would have been this kind of like, you know, like a fucking moment where like he's the guy? The final. Listen, it's hard to tell because you have to, we have to read our jury. And I feel like, you know, there are people on our jury who'd be like, that is the coolest thing ever. Like, heck yeah. Like, let's like, that's awesome. And then it would be an uphill battle to get it from him. But it's hard to tell. You have to ask someone who's not me who wasn't on the jury. What do you think? Because what would have happened just to reset it? because even I was, it was fuzzy to me.

So that he had an idol that nobody knew about, that he wanted Kutura to move a certain way with him, but then she didn't quite trust him. He didn't give her all the information. But had his plan worked, D would have gotten voted out at Final Five. Is that correct? Yep. I mean, so that changes everything.

Changed everything. But does just, like, is Julie in the final three now? I don't, I think Julie 100% goes to fire. Yeah. Goes to fire. Do you win the final four challenge? I mean, I would love to say yes, but I was, I ended up second, but that's because broke the challenge.

So it's probably not him. Well, you know, if Dee wasn't in the lead, then maybe he doesn't break the challenge and he wins it. Honestly, I think Jake might have won that. I mean, you imagine Jake, he voted out D, then he wins the final four challenge. Does he put himself into fire? He did, we did win the fire. He did put himself into fire against the fire?

Yeah, is that like, wow, is Jake one vote away from winnings by 45? And yet, you know, he had a very, a jury that wanted to see the best of him, too. I mean, like, those bellows hated Kutura, they were just never going to vote for Kutura. But they would have loved to have voted for Jake. So he takes Julie into the fire or he takes you into the fire? I think he takes Julie into the fire. He's not going to fire. And then it's Austin, Jake, Austin, Jake, Kutora in the.

the final three. That would have been fun. It would have been fun. I think, Austin, you probably still would have a vote. Oh, so again, Rob. He's going to steal the Bruce vote.

It's true. Maybe, probably. Yeah. Probably take the, but, you know, Drew, you're still voting for me,

right? Oh, of course. I think he's got Caleb, right? That's the thing. Yeah. I do feel like I'll get,

I would get the reba three. Okay. So now you get the. But I also's got three. Uh-oh. I guess. So we're tight now. What's your way?

You got Emily, I think, in this situation. I feel like Emily was quite bitter when it came to final tribal. Yeah. But not a Jake. But true. Maybe I would. Let's run it back. You got to figure out Kelly and Emily.

And I don't know if there's somebody else I'm missing. Kendra. Kendra. and Katera. Well, Katara is in the final three now. Oh, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Kendra was no, no lover of Jake. Okay.

I think that's still for you, Austin. Yeah, all right, so now Austin's the winner. I think Austin probably still would have won. But let me tell you, Nick, come on. Why did you convince Katara? Late surge for Jake ends up with Austin winning. Austin is a real, very threat, you know? It's like.

But maybe Jake's on 50 then. after that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, if he does that, that would have been insane if that all happened. Yeah. But anyway, but that's the plight of SOF where she's got a, like, Marianne was the person who did it of, okay, I'm down, but I'm going to, like, pull a rabbit out of the hat and see,

and now everybody's going to be super impressed. And she, like, has the ammo to be able to do it. Now, do we know when does knowledge is power? expire. Drew, as you were sort of like side watching Survivor in the minivan, did you catch that? I did not catch that. It probably goes around like six, right? Let's look it up. That's what I'm thinking. I mean, when I got the amulet, that was final six.

Idols are final five. So my guess would be six as well. I'm on the wiki now, trying to skim through this as I can. If that's six, and then probably the vote block has to be played at six, it does seem like that we are headed towards it could be a pretty wild tribal council where potentially knowledge is power gets played and also the vote block.

Yep. And it is final six if it's a if the the wiki is accurate. Okay. So final six there. So the vote block, did you say that's final six? Or is that just a guess? I think the vote block is also final six. Yeah. Okay. And then the idol's final five.

I think advantages, I think, go till six. You know, the thing is, is that Jesse did this kind of right, you know? If it's this like final six turnabout and like he was this strategic mastermind all along. But if Jesse hadn't done that, he would have been edited as a lackey the whole season. Because everyone thought Cody was doing everything. Cody was the frontman. Cody was involved in all the strategy. If Jesse hadn't pulled off this magical move, we would have thought he was just another guy.

there, an unmemorable, you know, and near with a little inequity. Do you think it speaks to that this move is not going to get pulled off because we're not seeing, you know, self as the main character? Yeah, I mean, like, she's all been disappeared, you know? I mean, what Sage's boyfriend is getting more time than soap, you know? It's like, I don't know, like some of the secondary characters, the people at home are getting more time than soap. It doesn't look good.

I don't know. You know, I'm worried. I'm worried. Yeah, I mean, edit-wise, it does seem that this might not be a successful play, or it'll be something that doesn't have a huge impact on it, on the overall story. But I'm hopeful that this is about to be the coolest next two episodes ever, with all the advantages landing and just crazy, crazy thing.

I mean, the next time on Survivor was really prominent. I think. What did you see that I got you excited? I just remember seeing tears and people like having a lot of emotion, which that's why I watched reality TV. I want to watch the emotion. I love the emotions. I love when people are just so emotionally overwhelmed that they can't hide and they just

unleash onto the screen. And I think we're going to get some of that next. I like when they suffer. Yeah, I agree. Yep. Yeah. Are you being facetious, Drew? I mean, like, yes, a little bit.

Like, I don't want to see, like, impalements. But, you know, I don't want the happy-go-lucky stuff, you know? I want to feel like this is, like, really Robinson Crusoe. I want to feel like this is existential. There are real stakes. What about the challenge that we saw Stephen participate in, where he had to go on the strenuous mission? I was just going to bring that up.

I feel like that was such a cool journey. I mean, I would put that in the same level as when Rachel had that, you know, on the little maroon area and like the rope coming off. Like, it just felt so epic. The fact that the timer was like the literal ocean was so cool. And I think that really goes to show like the scale of Survivor and like, you know, a 500 person production crew. That must have taken so much work and timing to execute it perfectly because they can't, you know, just flip a timer whenever the contestant starts. They have to perfectly plan everything. so they get the exact amount of time that they have in mind to do this challenge to run across the entire the entire island i thought it was so cool

yeah i agree you know yeah i thought it was inspired by what is it strava is that what people do when they're running of like go around like here's my here's my path around the island to go exactly i also saw online today that the combination to stephen's lockbox was exactly the same combination that Jake had to open when he got the advantage in the final five. What was it, J.T. Denise Gableer of... Jaybler, Denise. You got to say it makes accent, too. Sorry. I'm sorry.

I mean, the thing is they've got all this, you know, it's kind of philanthropic because they've got all this detritus in Fiji, you know. What can it be used for? You know, they can reuse it. I mean, they're recycling. We should, we should admire this, this eco-contractive. What if, okay, like, just out of, like, just hypothetically speaking, you know, Stephen, let's say he's a survivor and he's like, you know what, I know they, a lot of times they forget to change the combination on things. I'm just going to go with the Jake O'Kane, J.T. Gabler, Denise.

And what if he just goes right to the thing, opens the thing? The producer's like, no, we're not doing that. That's tough. I almost feel like they'll be like, okay, but the rule is you have to circle around the entire island. You put it in. Did he have to circle the island if he just got the code? I think they would make them. They would make them.

They would make him circle the island. I think that they, what, okay, so how about this? What are they, he's so confident that he goes there and he just like futses around with it for 20 minutes of like, and then it makes it like, oh, I got it. They'd give it to him then. If he said, you know what, I'm going to beat the challenge. I'm not going to run. gonna break the code then if if that happens perfect like if he tries under different combinations the times running out you see the the the the uh you know the ocean rising and times like and then

finally gets it just try it just try it just try j t gabler denise once well i guarantee they're not going to have that same combination you i don't know okay almost guaranteed yeah but but Before that journey, though, can we talk about how ridiculous it is that no one contested Stephen to go? Okay. So, okay, if I remember correctly, Emily goes, was that, like,

did she draw a random rock out of the bag to go? We all drew a rock, and I'm pretty sure every time there was a journey, we all drew a rock. You could, like, not draw one if you didn't want. Yeah. Yeah, everyone won. Oh, well, that, no, that first time.

But after that, everyone wanted to go. Okay. And was that also when we were in New Orleans for the live show? Was that the same episode? The Emily Journey, yeah. Yes. And she went there and she saw the journey. She's like, I'm not doing this.

Yeah, which is like, sure, it says that it's going to be a strenuous journey. You don't have to do it. You could just go there and be like, yeah, I can't do it. But at least now I know where the advantage is. This was actually pretty smart from production in terms of how they did this because they made it so, and I'm trying to remember like all these different instances of this, of that I think in 47, Rachel went, because she was trying to block Genevieve and Sam to go from this. So they sort of like took the block off the table where they made it sound so unappetizing that only the person who needed the advantage was going to be the person who was going to go on the journey. Like, they sort of, like, crack the code of how do we make it so it's just, it's not going to be somebody who's just going to either be like a nothing character or somebody who's already in the great spot. Like, how do we make it so only the person who really needs the advantage is going to go play for the advantage?

Do you think you're giving strenuous, like, too much credit, Rob? I mean, they seem pretty freaked out by strenuous. This season, though, I think the physical toll has been even greater than in past season. It sounds like they say it's like the hottest season ever and they didn't get the rice either. They're on like a huge calorie deficit. So I could see strenuous being scary. But like I said, like, go for the rice negotiation. Oh yeah, no rice negotiation.

That's true. Yes. Although I had said that I thought that probably putting the rice negotiation at day 19 really makes it where that the players are like, eh. What are we going to be? How many more days am I even going to be here? If it weren't for Drew, we would not have gotten rice. either. So thank you, Drew, once again. Yeah, but what day was your rights

negotiated? It was 16? Yeah, I think it was 16, right? I think that makes a big difference, right? Is that a valid theory? Oh, for sure. I mean, at day 16, we had what, like 10 people left still, 10, 9 people left? There's more people, there's more people that are like, I'm not, what chance do I have? I also thought that the challenge that it was like a race versus some sort of like a crazy endurance challenge that people are like, I'm not going to

win this. also speaking of things that are coming later is there no loved ones letter this season I wonder if maybe that's what makes people crash out in the next episode but it doesn't seem like it is getting a little late for letters yeah I agree I would not need my letters if I was going to get them four days later wasn't there a scene in like the next time on Survivor

where somebody was like complaining about like not being picked or like you know mad that they didn't get something like at the very last little scene of the next time on Survivor I think that was two episodes ago. That was the one where I think Christina was really upset that she didn't get food, maybe. Maybe. I think there's something in this next time on Survivor. Yeah.

It seemed like that they were yelling about something. Yeah. If we were invited, we're getting the level in letters next episode. But yeah. Yeah. Did either of you get letters? Who got letters in your season? The women.

They went on the Thanksgiving reward. And then we had Boys Night, which, you know, more than, any letter. Yeah. But do you wish that you formed a boy band instead of having Boys Night? You could have four boys on a bench? I would never, I would never change Boys Night. That was like the greatest day on Survivor's Day. Boys Night was legitimately one of the best nights of my life. What was so great about it? It's not like you guys had beers or anything or like, what was so great? We were drunk on each other's friendship. Yeah. You know? Like, sorry. what were you saying i was going to say like you have some like actual beefs happening this season

where like you know even the just this last episode was christina and savannah going at it during tribal council you know drew and i and jake and bruce we were net we never worked together you know like you know drew and jake had that whole mob boss interaction bruce and i and you know our alliance were always going after him and he was going after us and like yet boys night we put it all to the side. We held hands. We gave each other high fives. You know, Bruce was farting. We were laughing. We made a big pot of rice. We went fish. It was like awesome. We like put it all aside. We're like, you know what? You all are great people. We just can't work with you guys. And we kind of left it at that. And it was awesome. Yeah. I mean, it does speak to something

that Jeff said when Quinn Christina was thinking about her mom. And I mean, like, I've never heard him like say it, but it like obviously is the ethos of the show at this point, which is, that, like, you come here to play the game, but it's really about the journey. And, like, that for me was, like, Survivor to a T. That, like, you know, we live these lives and we're isolated and we're atomized. And, you know, you've got your cell phone. You're at work. And Survivor, like, strips away literally everything in your life.

There is nothing else. I mean, there's not even food. And, like, it just boils you down to, like, being an infant. And what you have are other people in this, like, new, fresh virgin world in, like, the same state. and you create like bonds with them or you can create bonds with them that like are so rich that they like surpass almost every other relationship

in your life. Oh, Drew. And the point is to spend time with with these people like at Boys Night or like I'm sure at that dinner or the breakfast on day 26. I mean, these are like, you know, these are like your bachelor party. I mean, these are memories of that forever.

So it was great. Yeah, Drew, does the show, is it able to capture that experience? that the players have. Not anymore. And like I felt like in the early days of Survivor, you did get glimmers of it of like these real like life or death bonds that, you know, like JT and Steven, great example. I mean, but now the show is so focused on packaging these emotional connections. You know, like they're not like they are the substance of the show and they have to get the music and they have to have back stories to explain why we should care.

That it's made you, it's lost a lot of the naturalness to it, which is unfortunate, you know? Yeah. Why do you think that is? Because I don't have a good, you know, theory of why, you know, even like to go back from stuff from, I know, I know, it's like 15, 16 years ago that you're talking about like a relationship like J.T. and Stephen. Why does it not necessarily feel like to the viewer that some of these relationships are as deep or as meaningful? I know this is the 39 days versus 26 days, but to the viewer, I'm not sure if that necessarily comes across the difference. Oh, I mean, it all boils down to like the reality TV landscape, you know, like sort of the currency of Survivor before COVID, and probably a little bit earlier too, maybe like before 2016, was cruelty, right? You watch the show because the show had people being brutal to one other, saying the things that you always wanted to say, suffering, breaking down.

And when that was what the show offered, then there would be these surprises, these moments that were just like really beautiful connections. And now today, what the show offers is these connections. And so as a result, we as viewers, when there are moments of cruelty, these are the most striking aspects of the show. These are the moments that we're actually interested in and we'll talk about, you know? Yeah. Okay. This is interesting, Austin, because I said that I, and, you know, Drew always blows my mind. This is why I love doing pods with Drew. I feel like what we're talking about here is that without the deep darkness, we cannot also have the light. And so in an era of like true sportsmanship where that we very rarely, like, we had like, oh, Christina has a strong dislike for Savannah.

And it was like, oh, my God. And she dislikes her. I can't believe it. Like, is it that we can't have the opposite side of the coin of that we can't also have like deep friendship in a world without hate? No, exactly. And it's the fact that everyone is having these deep connections with you. Everyone has their number one. Everyone has people who they're so close to.

There's so many of these stories being told every season like Bruce saying. it's like why why show like it's not going to hit the same you know like if our season was so angry and bitter and then like drew and i had our little friendship going on the side you know people will be like oh wow that's so cute like this is great i love it um but you know instead you got people just calling us napoleon dynamite and then pedro and and all that stuff and yeah they're they don't have they don't have it you know they're not having it they're uh it just doesn't stick you know there's just too many happiness and too many people being happy and lovey-dovey and wholesome so i totally agree yeah drew i never heard anybody ever say that the currency of survivor used to be

cruelty oh yeah i mean isn't that i mean do you disagree um first off let me see i've uh somebody who participated as somebody who wrote the book on survivor robesbook dot com i i i never thought i mean i'm i'm thrilled to explore the idea of the original currency of Survivor was cruelty before it became fire tokens and, you know, which is better who can say? So could you tell me more about that thought? Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, it was why Richard Hatch captured like, you know, the imagination of like all America, you know, with all this like these nice white collar professionals interacting, here was a guy who was like unapologetically mean and cut throat.

and real politic. And that was why the blind side was so revelatory. And I can remember Tyson told me one time that he used to tell people that they were going home. And the producers told him to stop doing that because then they wouldn't have a heartbroken reaction. That was the core of the TV program. And the show used to dump on people in the edit.

I mean, the show used to really humiliate people in the edit. And I got to be honest, as a viewer, I like that. Like, that was intriguing to me. That was fun. It was part of why it was worthwhile watching the episodes. yeah yeah i i do feel like that survivor does really try to do right by the contestants um you know in ways that they never did before but i i just don't know if that's necessarily what the viewers respond to like i think that the the show has very good intentions in terms of like wanting

everybody to have like this amazing experience i just am not sure necessarily like as a society if that's the show that we resonate with most i feel like i feel like it'd be so boring though every season if we watched you know the tribes just suffering and being really hungry and laying on the ground like we did in the earlier seasons like i feel like that story's already been told so many times that it it needed to evolve i don't know like it might need another evolution from where it is now but like i i don't know i i don't think like if they told that same sort of brutal story that they did all through 49 seasons, it would be good. There's a reason why every great moment of survivors in the past, you know,

there's no, you know, we're members of the new era. We had probably top two, new era season, top one, you know, plenty of people think. But, I mean, there's a reason why people agree that the old era was better. Yeah. As far as like the starvation goes, I actually feel like that the starvation is like hyped up a little bit more. I mean, certainly, like, you had, like, way back when, like, Survivor Africa, I think that that was probably featured a little bit more. But I do think that that it is more of a feature, a prominent feature in Survivor in the new era than it was, like, in the recent past, in the old era. Definitely.

That's a good point. It is coming back. Yeah, I think that the show really is a lot more of, like, I'm saying the word man, but I mean, you know, human. versus themselves versus adversity versus the overcoming

like this very challenging environment more so than the people versus each other. Yeah. I think like you do have to tell a different story like yeah man versus whatever whatever whatever

like it has to evolve if it's always the same it's going to be really boring. I'd kind of disagree with Drew that like every best thing that happened was in the old era or whatever i feel like 10 years from now people are going to say the same thing about the new era being like oh man those 40 seasons were so awesome like what or i just think it you know as things continue to change i talk to these hipsters that are you're playing they're like yeah like you know what survivor 45 greatest season of all time exactly i just think right now it's obviously when we've had nine seasons of a very similar format people are tired of it

people don't like it. But once that format changes, people are going to miss it. That's what I think. All right. Let me pose something I think puts it in very stark terms. So, like, if I go back and I think about, like, one of the last relationships on the show that felt like really, like, complex. Not just I cared about the people, but complex. One of the last ones for me is like Jay and Adam.

And that was a relationship where all of the emotional complexity of their past and their bond and the push and pull, came organically out of their interaction on the show. Today, we do get, you know, we get emotionally rich characters who have a lot going on in their past and that have burdens, but it's told through exposition. It's told through what sad music and pictures pulled up. I mean, it's not earned. It's not an earned emotional award.

And you've got to, like, you've got to focus on the pressure cooker, you know, and really break people down to get that kind of, you know, emotional growth authentically. And what I think is really interesting is that we're also in the 90-minute era where it feels like that we should be, you know, getting to know the characters even better than we would have in the past. Yeah, but that's another thing with the 26 days. I feel like a lot of those character moments are, you know,

when you have that one off day. And we don't have, we have like maybe three off days the whole season. Where we're just all laying by at camp and can talk through all that. I think everyone goes into the game now, which is like hyper fixated on their strategy, everything that they want to accomplish, all the moves they want to do. And, you know, everyone obviously wants to make friends. But I think everyone's so hyper-focused on strategy that it does make it harder to make, like to have those like genuine moments, I think, with the less days as well.

With 49 also, the whole social experiment is contaminated because halfway through, they're like, oh, by the way, if we like you enough, we'll put you on 50. So, I mean, like, there goes, there goes all of the, you know, the authenticness of the game. do you feel like that that changed anything because i have to imagine that almost everybody who's playing on survivors like well you know and if you know you'll come back one day yeah i think it's at the top of everyone's mind but i do think like when he like made that call it was amplified and i think it is something that everyone thinks about but like when we were out there we're like okay maybe it'd be season 48 you know if we're lucky or something

I'll have an all-star season and obviously you want to always come back and play but it was never like brought up like hey if you don't do well there's no chance instead they're like you know what we'll invite anyone no matter how you plays like we just want you to like go out there and play as hard as you can

it's like okay cool that's all you need to tell us all right so just going back to earlier in the season Drew you watched so much of it recently like were there any things that stood out to you from the first 10 episodes of the season that you watched earlier this week?

Oh my gosh. I'm trying to think. You'll just throw some things at you to react? Yeah, yeah. Throw some things to me. I've got to look at my notes. All right. Tell me about the secret. Oh, we had a secret encounter. Do you remember this, Austin?

Of course, man. This was time like zero before we on the road. On the boat, we're waiting, we're on these like many skiffs waiting to get pulled up to the freighter. and a sea crate comes up to our to our boat and it begins to climb up the side yeah and did you know what it was you knew about the danger oh of course i mean they show you a picture of it in the slideshow and they're like whatever you do get away from this thing that's why we're not allowed to go to the ocean when it's dark because yeah of those exact snakes everybody has been like

you know trained to to freak out if you see this thing so this was our this was our secret encounter um i don't know there was the secret was funny because like then it obviously bites jake it was the only physical guy on that tribe um which first of all i mean like he he must have been asleep how did he not you know notice but then he gets evacuated and they all go to the the challenge and and jeff goes to the other two tribes and he's like this is so horrible i mean you guys must be so sad that the only physically fit player on your enemy tribe has been evacuated You know, I, maybe I'm a bad person. I would have, I would have been like, I mean, sounds pretty good to me.

I don't know. But, you know, that was my only thought about the secret. Oh, and he's fine. He's evacuated. It's a false alarm. It was a dry bite. No, it's a horrible way. I can speak for the rest of us probably where, you know, I would be a little bit upset being like,

no one wants to go out on, you know, being bit. by a snake. That could happen to any of us. That's so devastating. But yeah, I, you know, obviously in the back of your mind, you'd be like, all right, nice. Like, I don't have to worry about tribal for a little bit, which I will say too. Jeff was like, Jeff shows up on camera. And he's like, we have state of the art medical facilities to treat this guy. And then they pan to like, what is obviously in the chorus rest stop hut with a bed in it. I was like, this is no vote of confidence. Like, I'm glad I didn't see this before trooping out there. Like, this is not a state of the art at all.

They have elite doctors, though. The doctors are very good out there. Yeah. Okay. I thought that this was like you had all seen these areas of the show. We were just seeing it for the first time. No, it was new for us. Certainly.

All right. If we have an issue, we just go to a little tent, you know, and the catch is up there. I mean, this season was the first time that there was no mergatory. We had a regular merge in season 49.

Yeah. I mean, learning from their mistakes, definitely. I mean, the survivor producers, the viewers, of course, don't know this, but there are a lot of young ones who have kind of risen up in the ranks recently, and they're very ambitious, and they have a lot of, you know, okay, we've talked about this. No, I know. I'm interested to hear.

This sounds like the Jedi Council. A lot of ideas, yeah, and they take what the fans say very, very seriously. So getting rid of Mergatory, I think, is absolutely for the best. But I got the sense it was just a one-off. I didn't get the sense that this was like the few. Like, I thought it was more because of the numbers and Jake's medical evacuation. Was there emergatory in 48? I thought there was.

Oh, there was. Uh, never mind then. Well, they put in two swaps too, Rob, which I don't think they had ever done with the exception of Gabon in a non-returning season. So I think that's accurate. Yes. So I think they had been slowly like walking back the mergatory over the last couple seasons where it was like less and less of a thing where I think it was still like everybody was it always everybody got to vote but six people were safe and then I think it was by the time I think it got to 48 I feel like that then every like it might have been still mergerary they still didn't get their buffs but. but charity got voted out. You know,

tell me if I'm, Brandon, tell me if I'm saying anything wrong here in the chat. But I think it was that they needed to still, like only one person was immune. Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me. The way I took the merger story in this season,

or maybe I'm taking this season generally, is that especially coming up on 50, you know, maybe they're slow rolling the idea that the format is not as set as we've all come to assume over the previous eight seasons and anything could happen. And so this is a real precedent breaker in prep for 50, which will be a potentially... But why does the format have to be set?

Why does it? Yeah. I mean, it probably has to be set because it's cheaper. I mean, that's probably why it's the same thing. I feel like it makes it a little more fair, too, if you go into the season of like this is what's going to happen this season so that you can't get in trouble. like, oh, they're just doing a swap because, you know, this person needs to be saved or something.

I feel like the production, you'll go into each season with like, this is what's going to happen. They map it all out just so that, yeah, no funny business can be claimed against them. Yeah, but it was fine for 40 seasons that they weren't. Like maybe every once in a while is, oh, yeah, they just did a swap to save this person. But, I mean, who cares? I guess you mean, like, you want the same format every time or you want it like a different one, Rob? Me? I mean, mix it up. Like, why do people have to know what they're going into before they leave?

Like, you know, you don't know. It's going to be two tribes, three tribes, four tribes, no tribes. You know, I feel like that, like, we like novelty. Keep it spicy. Totally. I feel like there's going to be, I mean, like probably for the 50s, there's probably going to be some sort of shift, right? Yeah, 24 players.

I'm 22. I think beyond 50. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope so. Like the new new era. I feel like it, yeah, it does save money. And it just, if they have like chunks of, of eras of different formats, instead of having to change it up each season.

Because what if one just like fully busts and just like a horrible season? And like, you know, like they do this like, I don't even know. But like, I can't even think it's on my head. But it could. You're saying don't try new stuff because you could have one really bad one? No, I say do try new things. Yeah, do try new stuff. also you don't have to throw away something that's good immediately after you know like like test it out

learn what's good over the course of five seasons or something play it out and then you know have an overhaul yeah if you got a little variation things last a lot longer on the shelf you know it's like it's like crop rotation you plant beans every year i mean your field is dead in three years you plant beans every other year you mean you got forever you know yeah no it's interesting because i you know i listen to the On Fire podcast every week. And I heard Jeff say, even just on this most recent episode, he said that he'd like to have an app where that has all of the challenges in the show. And then the fans can write their improvements for how to punch up all of the challenges

and make them better. So it does seem like that there's some things that we're very open to like, hey, how could the fans help us crowdsource make this better? there's other things I just feel like that we're very locked in on yeah it is it can definitely be frustrating as uh as viewers for sure I mean it is nice that the show seems to have shed a little bit of its ego um in terms of like we know best and you know work what can be what we want and and now they're more receptive to the fans I mean I think a lot of that's in the hands of the fans supposedly so well I'll have

to see you know but supposedly it is in the hands of the fans uh for their sake you know listen to this fan, you should change the logo. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. We shall have to see. I would love to see another fans versus favorites, for instance, if we're going to have more fans. Because I've said for years that fans versus favorites would be good because, with all due

respect to the fans of season 16 and season 26, they just like, were they even fans? Like, there was like three people across those two seasons that had seen the show before. And it's like, these are the fans. of the show, these hot mactors, these are the people that watch Survivor, week in and week out. They're our biggest fans. But now, like, the people who come and

play the show for the first time players, like, if you put them on, like, if there was a fans tribe and you had people who are showing up the first time, like, you know, like, think of a bunch of, like, you know, standouts like yourself or the people that are from this season, like, they could show up and

compete against a tribe of returning players. oh absolutely i mean a lot of them are playing orgs you know a lot of them are playing online yeah and one of the great values of the fan tribe would be that you've kind of like channeled all the like survivor geekdom under like one group of people so instead of everyone squealing about how excited they are to play survivor it's just like it's just half of the people yeah you know it's a nice kind of like freeing up getting some air i think it would be a great format to do right now back to two tribes too i think it just like wins on it on every element yeah who says no

of that that's a good one yeah they're they're even flying the fans out you know it's like the zoo they fly the fans out and they're like okay here are the you know here are the starving season 50 you're talking about that there's a prize where a bunch of fans won trips to go to fiji to go and watch the survivors yeah yeah that's what i mean my mom applied for it didn't didn't hear back didn't get it yes sad really sad yeah um awesome and uh i sent your your your mom sent me a such a nice gift from the live show in San Francisco. That was so nice. Austin at the live show gave me a gift card from his mom, Eva, who is a longtime Robin's podcast listener and gave me a gift card for not being able to make it to the show. Nobody's ever done that before. I already know she has the

biggest smile on her face as she's listening to this. She's probably like, you know, scurrying around. Like, she's on her walk, like listening to this podcast. It's going to be the best day of her life like she's so incredible what it what was the gift card amazon gift card what did you use it on rob um i remember what did i use it on um i that i'm you know i that i have to go back and look at my my records of uh what because that's even pre black friday of what i got but i'm sure it was i'm sure it was something good are you a big black friday guy rob i was pretty good on black friday you know i like was trying to find like i just like was making a list all month like what are all the things that I need and then I'm going to just go ahead and uh you know

stock up on things I always panic like three days before Black Friday like oh my gosh if I don't do all my orders now then I'm screwed for this is because never I didn't buy one gift for anybody uh oh okay well never mind like my shopping list when I need it I am Black Friday I exclusively purchased merch from Rob has a podcast oh for real for serious No, okay. We'll send you merch. He told me out, Rob. I'm just trying to.

We'll send you merch. Like, we don't want you just wearing Jeopardy merch everywhere. Shannon said, I was like, Shannon thought me and Dee had like the most like good episodes. I got a mug from her. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have it. It's right by my bedside, actually. Wow.

So Shannon and Eva both made happy by this episode. We're doing good. Okay. Who are some other standouts for you, Drew, from this season? I love stage Yes Very complex player You know

Willing to play you know Emotionally Which Austin I know you mentioned That you really like I liked her a lot Other than that I have to say I have not been thrilled by the cast

I have some very mean And harsh things to say About a lot of these people Austin What are you what are you What are you who do you like You're turning to me now And like the interesting part

It was about a I'm trying to escape You know, I got called out Stephenfishback.com. Oh, yes. Yes, go buy Stephen's book. I actually got a review copy, but I think it's embargoed,

so I won't say anything. Yes. I've been very much enjoying Stephen's book as well. Yes, it's very nice. Anyways, the cast is great. I love the cast. I actually, a lot of the cast has, like,

grown on me with each episode. Like, I do, I've been enjoying the season a lot more now than I have earlier on the season. And I did even like the, like, I remember Matt was really fun to watch in the pre-merge. Sage, like you were saying, Drew, she's really fun to watch that whole showdown with Shannon was so much fun. My girlfriend loves Stephen. So this was a really good episode for her to watch.

Everything's coming up Stephen, he said. Everything's what? Coming up, Stephen. That's what he said. Oh, I guess he did. Yeah. I think I said that to you. week on the phone, Austin.

Everything's coming to Stephen? Coming up, Stephen. Like, everything's going well for it. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I, like, misheard that. I also, okay, I really like Joanne. He's been really fun to watch. I was thinking, like, okay, say, like, we were transplanted onto season 49. Like, who would you want to work with the most and who would you least want to work with? Oh. For all of us. me.

Rob, who would you want to work with? Who would I want to work with? So I'm just trying to think of like the type of person that I would work well with. I feel like I want somebody. I feel like I would have worked well with Yellow Sophie. I feel like that I think I would have like, uh, vibed well with her. I don't necessarily want somebody who's like too similar to me. I think I want somebody who has like a like a little bit of.

like a different skill set maybe somebody who's like a little bit more outgoing that's why i was thinking of uh sophie as but i look i think that the beauty of me is i could work with almost anybody all right if you had to like had to like you couldn't work with bottom of the who couldn't i work with um i guess of the people that are left um or the whole cast you know Out of the whole cast, I'd say, I'm not sure if Jake is going to totally vibe with me. That's funny. I was thinking Jake would be like the guy I would go to. And that's funny because Jake was my last two because I felt like there was too much,

maybe a little too much overlap in what we would bring to the table. Like I think I can like cater my approach to almost any other type of purpose. person that's out there. But if, for whatever reason, like, if Jake does not find me amusing, like, there's not a lot there I can do. If he's like, hmm, you kind of suck at the challenges. And I don't think you're funny. Like, I don't have much else to offer him. Like, we're not connecting. You know, Jake is a, Jake is a very open-minded guy. He was tight with Sophie, who is like, you know, Miami. He was tight with Alex, who was not Miami, you know. I'm not saying it definitely wouldn't work. I just think that there was, you know, probably that there's maybe some variance there. I'm

not sure if it's 100% going to work. Yeah, I feel that. I mean, I do like Jake a lot. I like Sage as well. Sage gives me like kind of like Emily upside. I think that the reality is a lot of these people will be fairly good allies. Like I look at this season, I think that there are a lot of followers and they're not that many leaders, you know? And so there's a lot of people who would who would be fairly good alliance mates with a little bit more structure and a little bit, you know, kind of like, you know, stronger propaganda, group cohesion. But yeah. Yeah.

What do you think about Juan celebrating from the jury bench about the votes that were coming in for Sophie? I loved it. I loved it. I actually got like a little bit of goosebumps. It was like, oh, I like, you know, when you're in the jury, it's like you get like one final, like, move that you get to like be a part of. I thought that's really cool for him.

the jury. I would look at Drew when I was watching the jury's reactions. I was a very stone-faced juror. I don't think I gave you much moral support. You didn't. It hurt my feelings. I was like, oh, my God. You smiled at me at first.

Over the years, Rob, of my appearances on this podcast, I've been very critical of the jury. I don't particularly like the jury. I think there are a lot of problems with it. I think that when people celebrate or talk or make faces on the jury, it's putting your finger on scale and I don't really care for it. And the audience, it's not good for the audience either because it ruins the surprise

of what the jury's going to decide. Yeah, I'm trying to think of just like going through like the evolution of the jury. I think that traditionally the jury is very stoic, very stone-faced. And I feel like that maybe like the Elizas and the Courtney's are like sort of like the first jurors that I can remember that are sort of like,

oh my God, big. reactions to things that are that are going on shockface and really like pantomiming from the jury of what what's going on but the jury they had bigger juries like in the edge of extinction like it being like a little bit more raucous but i really can't remember a time where i've seen a juror celebrating the outcome of a tribal council like i saw joan do and then also being like, hey, you know, Sage, like from like the, like, hey, that was for you, Joanne. Yeah. No, I, I, um, as a viewer, I liked watching Joanne do that.

And I think, you know, as a viewer too, there's like a line that can be drawn, like, where, you know, you see, you know, Eliz or whoever do making these huge, like, crazy faces. Like, I feel like sometimes I'm just like, oh, a little icky. I don't really like that. I like Joanne's. It felt genuine. As a player, hate the reaction. Listen, it's fine for me as a viewer.

I'm not saying, like, you know, hey, Jawan, like, hey, that's not a very classy way to be on the jury. But I do think that it is a negative for Sage's game where to be so demonstrative to the person that you are rooting for. And I guess everybody feels like, okay, I guess Sage has Jawan's vote. But to see, like, okay, oh, Juan is on the jury. He's really going nuts for Sage. might want need to get rid of Sage because she's got the locked in vote. I think it's a net negative for the player

who's still in the game. Absolutely. I mean, Austin, you remember, as not being the jury, you remember trying to like make strategic decisions based off how the jury looked and how does it in the jury. Yeah, no, you become hyper aware of the jury. Obviously, at a certain point,

the jury becomes like the biggest part of the game and you're trying to do everything you can to analyze like all their different facial movements, expressions, the way they react, like, you're just, like, studying them. And it really can, like, mess with your head a little bit. I remember when, like, Julie went home at Final Five, we had people in our jury bends bowing down and, like, making this whole, like, big,

and we're just like, oh, this is, like, this is, like, yeah, yeah, like, I was, I was so, like, and I was like, uh, queen Julie or bowing down that Julie got out? Queen's down to, yeah, because they, they loved her, you know, because what's not to love about Julie, but, but, yeah, no, things like that. things about that it really does get to you as a player and it is really annoying and like as a player it's like I want everyone to be completely stone faced I don't want anyone else to be picking up things I don't want like someone on on our you know tribal council bench like seeing the jury smile at them and then feeling like they could do whatever they want to have all this confident well I don't know I want everyone of no emotions as a player um which is what you were saying druid sorry rob go ahead the game relies on like a certain notion of like that the jury is objective. Obviously, the jury is subjective, you know, like, you know, everyone would admit that. But ultimately, the end of the game is compelling because you'd like to believe that the best player wins, you know, and you'd like to believe that the jury has an accurate assessment

of the best player. If that wasn't the case and it was just subjective, well, they'd all just vote for, you know, who their favorite was socially. And the show would be unsatisfying every season because there would be no reason to make strategic moves. You'd like to believe the jury is objective. And so when, when the jury does shit like that, it ruins that illusion. And it, and And it makes for worse television. I also thought Jawan might have had, and I got to check the records. Maybe the first time I've ever seen a turtleneck on Survivor. It looked good.

It's not since Ryan Ulrich. Oh, yeah. Ryan did have one. Yeah, it was good. It was a good luck. I liked it. It was like, but it was a lot for the jury. Yeah.

And that fire makes it very toasty. Maybe it's a chilly night. I just saw Ryan the other day. What? Really? No, actually, I'm dead. serious. It was like a survivor, like, hero when we were out there.

You're like, I really liked him. I sent him a message, and I was like, do you want to get dinner? I was in New York, and he was like, sure. And we went and we got taste. How was he? It was like talking to myself. It was unbelievable. I'm dead serious.

I wanted to talk to him, and he would not oblige. You know, that was kind of what he said to me. But Rob, I think he's in a lot better place about it. All right. Let's see, maybe, listen, let's. Let's see if we can open up a channel. Yeah, all right, all right. We'll talk after this thing.

You know, look, the history of Rob is a podcast is filled with people who I piss off and then somehow re-engratiate myself back in. Wow. The ultimate social threat. Exactly. We need to play a 10-year game, not a 26-day game. Yes, 10 years, you know, like time heals all wounds, okay? Most of them.

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Okay. Let's see. What did the listeners want to know from you guys? We've got, okay. They want. Okay. Austin C. from the Bay Area asked, is Drew looking for a job?

Austin C. asked us. Yes. What? I'm in L.A. right now. That was not me. yeah i am i am unemployed austin c is so so perceptive so if you're listening to this and you're in media give me a call um but yes thank you austin c it's not a it's not a lc right i mean i'm a lc that one's probably has a different middle i have a sense that austin c just goes by austin c in

real life not yeah the lee was added as as like a survivor thing and it's kind of now what what people call me like people think my last name is leco which is fine whatever i mean i like i like what's the genesis of it with like was there another austin and that you were sort of like you got like soffed into austin lee i mean you want you want the you want the real real i mean yes well okay i mean my last name is um you know some some would say controversial um so i did it as a way to be like, listen, you know, I don't know. I mean, like, it was, I'm leased it. So, so that you, that I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I might say it was pushed upon you, Austin. Oh. It was, it was, it was, uh, recommended. Yes. Okay. Well, ALC is pretty good too.

Thank you. I, yeah, I like it. I, it's a rebranding that I went through, you know, during Survivor. And I'm, I'm down to stick with it. I like it more. Yeah, look, look at the Sophies and Sof. They have to have a rebranding foisted on them. Exactly. Yeah, I wonder what's going to come from that. I don't know.

Like, is it now fully SOF? Like, or are people going to go back to calling her Sophie? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Yeah. If Sof plays on another season, is she Sof in the other season? Is she blue Sophie in another season? Is she just regular Sophie if she plays in Survivor 48?

It seems like she's not crazy, about self. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I did love. They got to bring them both back on the same season. Yes. I did love how Sophie S on her exit interview was like, oh, guess this makes me other Sophie now. Like, that freaking sucks. I thought that was pretty funny. Yeah. She's the worst Sophie of Survivor. She was pretty good. Yeah. I mean, that's a great, great, great, great work to me. Okay. What do you think about yellow Sophie? We hardly. talked about her so far I really liked watching her

I thought she had a kind of a confusing edit where I wasn't really sure like the It was quiet in the beginning Yeah exactly But I really liked her and like I thought the bits that she got In the beginning were really funny Obviously roasting the food reward

She crushed the challenges I thought she's a really fun To watch so Yeah Somebody who also identified strongly with the food That did you feel like that she had a point there of fruits not a reward I was down for any food

like when we got our fruit reward for the first one I honestly was happy I was down for it but like I get her point you know I just like especially like fruits so Drew might have been pissed off though I like the fruit I was just disappointed they didn't give us more but I mean Sophie is part of this new

this new archetype of like no nonsense professional women in their early 30s who are big threats and we got we got one or two every season now um within that archetype I don't think she was the best one but but that kind of no nonsense approach is needed like that's one Savannah oh it's got to be Genevieve oh I've been from this season oh yeah well I mean Savannah is like I feel like a lot of people on this season are they like say like the most ridiculous shit like how could anyone buy this like the one that really stood out to me in my rewatch

was Joanne betrays Savannah at the merge vote. And Savannah sits down with him and she's like, I just want you to know, like, I'm so proud of you. Like, oh my God. Oh, my God. I would have won ballistic. I'm like, you're proud of me for regretting you? Like, do you think I'm stupid?

You know, and I can't imagine if someone said that to you. Like, we would not hear the end of it. Oh, never. It would lead to the greatest confessionals in the history of the show. Yeah. So suffice to say, I like some. somebody who's a little bit no nonsense, and I'm sure Sophie's presence will be missed. Also, it's kind of like a mover and shaker. I don't have much faith in Stephen, Sage, and Christina

not a lot of confidence on the other side. How about, you talked about these no-nonsense professional women that we have seen through Survivor. You mentioned Genevieve, obviously, yellow selfie. I think Savannah very much fits into that. I'm sure you could put Rachel into that camp as well.

I would even put her there too. Yeah, entrepreneur. For sure. Do we have no nonsense serious men on Survivor? No, we don't anymore. I feel like you can't

be a man on Survivor if you're no nonsense. I feel like that nonsense, you almost need to be like if you are no nonsense, you need to be, totally jacked also yeah who wants to work with a no nonsense man nobody for for whatever reason who knows why men on survivor in the last couple of years i guess joe but yeah but it's more i think that joe is like super serious but blue collar guy yeah mm-hmm mm-hmm hmm that's a good point

i don't think any serious white collar men on survivor i think a lot of the the guys are they find to be problematic in casting I think that's why they probably don't make it through but who knows but I feel like that this is not even problematic but just very serious I feel like that guys you need to have at least a sense of humor to get on

Survivor Oh for sure for sure I'm like looking at past cats and it's like be kind of wacky they got to be a little nerdy Wacky or nerdy

Austin Or yeah you're like extremely checked like a Jonathan you know like something where it's like

you're just in the the point one percent of some sort of other aspect he's still like macho representation on the season you know

yeah like who are the men on this season just to go just to go through it okay all right I've got it up we've got Jake

Jeremiah oh well you go too fast you go too fast okay Jake he's in the category that And he was a big guy And he was kind of he was still even a little wacky

Yeah Oh for sure for sure He wasn't just a straight known And he was Canadian, you know So that there was wild card Jeremiah wacky Yeah Alex

Matt was wacky Yeah Matt was wacky A little uh Alex is a little wacky I mean he's like the unusual You know

A little not super confident You know A little bit nerdy A little bit introverted Stephen, he's bringing the wacky, he's got all the dad jokes Mm-hmm, for sure Jason wasn't really that wacky, but he was an alternate He's a, he's a pro video gameer

To the alternates Yeah, no, we love alternate He's a pro gamer, you know, he plays smash bros So that's, that's not like a regular, you know He wasn't the most serious though Yeah, I will say, okay, Nate was serious Nate, Nate wasn't that wacky No, regular guy

I mean, multi-millionaire, but regular guy Yeah. See, the 0.1% at something. Yeah, it doesn't matter what. And there's no one wacky. Oh, my gosh. But wacky is the best. You know, all the greatest characters

are all wacky. Mm-hmm. Okay. Here's a question from a listener. Who is the sword of Damocles most likely to hit? And who is most likely to steal a sandwich? It's from listener, Jake O.

All right. You get the former. I'll get the latter. It'd be funny. We reversed it. I still don't even 100% know if I understand the Sword Damocles. I think I do, but half your analogies, man. You're powerful, you got a lot of hoax.

That's the short and sweet. The what? The short and sweet. If you're powerful, you get a lot of ops. I would say the Sword of Damocles is most likely to fall on Rizzo. He's been waving this idol around very ostentatiously. And I mean, you know, it's like the rappers, they have those big chains. But then the chain snatchers come and they, they snatch the chain.

I mean, that's kind of what I would foresee for Rizzo, certainly, you know, with most casts. And for stealing a sandwich, I think Jawan is the clear, obvious, but it would be on accident, would just take some else's sandwich and eat it. Savannah would do it deliberately, steal the sandwich. You know, speaking of food, you know, we've seen two instances this year of in this season where the person who is going on a reward, and says, okay, this person, they haven't eaten. I have to give them a spot on the reward because they haven't eaten.

And people say, Rob, that's part of the new era that, you know, whoever hasn't eaten, they have to go on the reward. And I'm like, since when? I will say 45, we did kind of fall under that. Like at the auction, we're like, Emily hasn't eaten. Kelly hasn't eaten. We're going to let them bid on it first, get their food. I think you just, you, like, you always say, like, you build your own society and, like, the rules of society is that you want things to be as fair as possible, I guess.

And, you know, it could have been a thing where if he didn't take Christina or Rizzo for not having eaten that they would bite him later on if he made it to final tribal counsel because people would be bitter like, oh, what the heck? He was starving. You didn't take him. Like, I think things go back to bite you. People would be like, hey, on day 19, that wasn't cool. You didn't take Rizzo on the reward. He didn't eat. People will get pretty sanctimonious about it, Rob.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Dude, I mean, like, when you don't eat anything, you're eating worms off the ground, a couple pieces of the coconut, like, that is huge. If someone's like, I haven't eaten for so long. Sophie told me today that Rizzo hadn't eaten anything, and they said that he, because he doesn't eat coconut.

And I need to know, does Rizzo have a coconut allergy? Or does he just not like it? Because if he just doesn't like it, I don't feel bad for him. They might have mentioned it if he had an allergy, you know? If he had, look, I think, like, Liz Wilcox has a million food allergies, candy coconut, okay, that's a tough stuff. But as a dad, I don't want to hear, oh, you don't like it, so you're going to not eat it.

That means you're not hungry. Wait, Liz really did have those allergies? It's unclear. We don't know. Okay, I'm sorry. We won't talk about it. Yeah. It's okay.

I'm sure she did. She said she has them. But then she seemed to make a comment that implied that she might not. I think she made a comment that said, like, hey, survivor has healed me of like, I've realized that I can, like, they should have undergone a change. What she was like, and she was like, I think the reason I have all these allergies is because I'm so stressed. You know, I get stressed out of that thing. And then I get allergies. So I don't know.

But, I mean, Austin, do you remember when there was the. And our auction was kind of like, you know, there was a penalty. You had to like rush to get in. And Kelly, for whatever reason, we all decided that Kelly, Kelly and Emily were like sacred cows and they needed to, you know, they needed to get their food first. I can't even remember why. I think it's because like it had been on the marshes or something. Oh, yeah, they hadn't eaten since premarge or something. But then it was like a real moral interdict.

And so even though Austin and I and D all had more money than them, we like couldn't preempt them in the line. Because it's like You don't want to get heat thrown on you Because you like broke the rules of your society And like didn't let someone eat when that was kind of You guys are making the case too easy Against the new era being soft This would this happen in the old times too

Oh yeah Like you remember I mean San Juan del Surr They were all like giving up rewards to each other Because they had neat That's a wacky season Okay doesn't count yeah yeah I am but I think that that was like

Jeremy was doing it for like posturing you know it was like a naked power plant it wasn't like he didn't care that like John and Jack had mean it's a it's a social game you don't want to ostracize yourself anyway so like that's just one way that you could please the rest of the group

you know and then you're going to take like why I create friction all right Hannah Hughes asked if Austin was the alternate on 49 instead of Jason, how do you think that you would do? I think it would win. Now, you didn't get to be on the show because

somebody was talking too much of Ponderosa, right? No, no. You know, I think the reasons why I got brought in are kind of like, I still don't even really know to this day, but yeah, no, there's just some guy who came in, he was there for like half a day, and then he left, and then I was told I was playing.

So there was no pre-gaming, you know, I think, you know, obviously there's, you give each other's smiles and winks or whatever. But, like, I think we've followed the rules pretty well. But you knew pretty well beforehand as opposed to, like, Jason and MC, it sounded like they found out, like, right before everybody was going to go. Yeah. I had a, I had a few days to, like, mentally prepare. I got to, like, yeah, which was much needed because, like, the day, like, the day after, like, that day, that evening after I found out, like, I couldn't stomach anything. I was going to the bathroom every five minutes. It was like a mess.

So I can't imagine like being told. And did they let you call home too? I got a five-minute call home to my mom, basically being like, hey, like, can you drop me out of school right now? I'm not coming back. And then also, by the way, can you refund my Southwest ticket that I bought? That was it. Wow.

So. Yeah. Now, did you tell anybody in the game that you were the alternate? it? I remember the conversation very, very well. I didn't tell anyone through like 80, 90% in the game. And then it was after, I think the Emily vote out where Reba was fractured. And we come back at the end of the night and we sit on the beach because we would always have our little night chats with each other when everyone else was sleeping. And we were like this broken family who just like went after each other kind of. And as a way to kind of be like, no, like,

it's us for we're going in like sorry about what just happened but it's it's us for till the end like I promise and then it was offering like you know this is something I never told anybody I was the alternate I was I remember like that was just part of that whole kind of conversation and I think those are the only people I told and then you know what maybe maybe it was not a good decision by me because then I go final tribal council you know Kendra throws this question of like oh tell us about your survivor experience like how did you make the most of it and then I was like doing this whole buildup and I was going to be like and then I was the alternate you know and then I said that and like everyone was like because you know they already all heard

from you know like Drew or Julie or something I was like there's a lot of alternate bonds in this season where of course you had Jason and MC but then also sage was the alternate for Survivor 47 and then also Sophie yellow Sophie was the alternate for Survivor 48 and it seems like that they bonded over that, the 47-48 alternate. So, yeah, a lot of alternate mojo. Yeah, no, I mean, it definitely feels like it's becoming more, like, more of an unknown thing and something that they're not really, like, trying to hide. They're like, oh, yeah, we have one male, one female alternate.

Like, it's all out in their open. Like, they're not hiding anything anymore, which is pretty cool. Our alternate was Tiana. You know, she went on to play 47, 47. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alternates are the new lawyers.

Future players should target the alternates as well, of course. It's true. They have the least amount of time to get excited, you know, for it. So if you chop them, they get hurt the least. Oh, I meant they should target the former alternates. Okay. That's interesting. Oh, because then they had the most time to prepare.

Yeah. Yeah. So if anybody who finds out somebody's an alternate, they just go after them. Well, not only that, but the alternates also talk to the people on their season. That is true. If you have a huge advantage. Yep, yeah. Wow.

And you know what? If someone goes on to your season only playing one day of a prior season, they also have a huge advantage that they will. Emily was right. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes, exactly. But you don't really know that when he got for the first time.

You don't know that after the season, you will talk with everybody and you can like, you know, have access to the whole survivor pool. So you guys were there when Emily was calling out that Bruce was, did have a big advantage for playing.

Now, nobody had her back on the mat that day, but were you guys saying like privately? No, she was actually right about that.

She's, she kind of ate with that. I don't think so. I think she's just being mean. Yeah, that was so nasty. And that's fair. We came back to the beach

and I feel like Drew is like, man, Emily's a bitch. Like, you know what? I don't think we got to go on her out like I don't believe in ALC I never said no I think so I think that would have been on the show if he said that

I said similar things that were not here so I don't think that they were on would have been on the show but nonetheless Kendra and I had beef in the pre-merge for sure yeah Kendron Kendra like it would give me like the stink item and the challenges and so then you guys ended up on the same tribe

Or before that? No, before. Why? She just thought I was like, you know, like trash talking bellow during the challenges. And then she would give me these like nasty little looks. And then she looks like, you know, she's very alternative. And so I was like maybe she's like, she does like the Wiccan stuff. Like, you know, like the witchcraft.

Like, you know, nothing to that was cost. Yeah. Yeah. Well, did you like say something to them at one point? Like at. She thought it was me. But anyway, Spice is saying. We did some Hendra trash talk on Reba for sure, for sure.

Yeah. That was our target. ALC, what do you think about the chickens on Survivor that you're a person that you wanted the sandwich so bad? And now I see these survivors and somehow they got the chickens like days and days ago. They're still like they haven't even contained the chickens. They're still running around the island. If Drew and I were there, those chickens would have been gone. like within four days like i think you get those chickens you just want to eat them you that's the

best strategic move just finish them up less people to share it with you don't have to worry about a swap um but then there's like them escaping yeah but there's that whole thing with like the whole society where like there are people who might not like you killing these chickens and eating it and maybe that could come bite you and i'm wondering if that is playing a you know a factor in why they're not killing these chickens because i know they're all starving like why are they not eating them I don't think that's a part of it. I don't think it's like that, you know, Shambo is dreaming that you're going to murder the chicken.

If anything, the players are having, like, moral dilemma with killing the chickens. Wait, you think they're having moral dilemmas? Yeah. I think that's why, too. I mean, both Alex and Stephen talked about how that they're not okay after killing the chickens. That's fair.

You think you would have been okay after killing the chicken? Yeah, but. I wouldn't do it alone. Like, I would have gone, I would have grabbed Drew and we would have done it together so that we could split apart in half. You know, I mean, we were slaying crabs every chance we got, you know, like to eat. And at that point, it's like, okay, I would just have to tell myself, like, you always want to just like make it feel not as bad.

Like, when we'd kill these crabs, we'd tell ourselves every time, like, oh, they eat their own babies. Like, crabs, like, literally, there's clips of them picking up their own babies and eating them. Like, they're demon spawns. Like, we might as well eat them too. you know we would we would we would spin a story like oh these chickens like you know they'd be better off eaten than then then just running and starving on our beach or I don't know we'd have figured

something I hated those crabs I hated those crabs more than almost like anything in my whole life so I think if the chickens were there I would have hated those chickens you know it's so annoying to have I mean like at that one be be bellow beach for us um they had those birds that were just like living on the island and they would just scream in the middle the night. And I'm sure the chickens are also making so much noise. They probably don't smell good. They're, you know, they could be taking their, their coconuts or papayas or whatever, like, just eat them. They're diseased. Those chickens are dirty, you know? You can't even running around. But, you know, if it would put heat on me because other people have this moral

dilemma and not want to have them dead, then I, that would be what would stop me from killing. Yeah, I don't think that's too big of a concern. I don't think there's too many big Wendy's that are out there of like I guess I think sage might have not wanted them to eat the chicken yeah yeah yeah okay all right what do you think about the changes to the spinning platform challenge uh that did you have that in season 45 the rope immunity blocks thing but you've probably done it at some of these survivor events you go to right I've never done have you I will say, though, like with this challenge, it did seem like it was a step or two easier than the other ones that we've seen. I mean, like the fact that he didn't think that the adjustment was better than the old one.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I think the old one was better. I feel like with this one, it was almost a speed run where, like, the past ones, there really is a dilemma of do you go slow and just like take it methodically and hope that, you know, three people before you drop where this one, it was like only one person dropped. Yeah, maybe the dream teamers just were like going berserco and going as hard as they could and blocks were flying everywhere and maybe it was something. But it seemed like everybody was like pretty measured and we didn't have too many blocks topple. Yeah, yeah. I don't think they'll be bringing that same version back, honestly.

Yeah. It's harder to read too, you know? That's like a big source of tension in the challenge, like seeing it slowly like come together. and then when it's like spinning around and you're just stacking blocks but yeah yeah I think also yeah there's like the part you have to

like turn around and like hold the thing I think that's also like a big part of it but I thought that maybe it was like a change that they made because I don't know how long it takes to shoot like I don't know if it like hey that takes like two and a half hours for them to actually like shoot that challenge and maybe they thought it goes faster

in the same way that they did like the poll challenge of like hang on hang on to the pole. They were like, we made the poll, half as wide as it used to be. So now it'll be really tough and it's over in five minutes. So I thought it might just be like a, you know, hey, speed this up. I know that they want like challenge, because with the 26 day format and the tribal councils after, you don't want a long challenge.

So I'm sure they maybe thought of ways to do that. But just said he didn't even like it. Yeah. I feel like there was nothing wrong with the prior version of it. But like you said, you know, try new things. you know it might be a bust but you know then don't use it again yeah okay let's uh see what what else to the fans want to know from you uh from uh let's see survivor 50 is around the corner uh of course uh season 45 has two representatives that are going to be playing in season 50

could there have been more Who we thought from 49. Okay, wait, you go draft to replay. There's more from 45? Yes. Yeah, I mean, like a few of us, I mean, I was in the casting process. Two other people who didn't make it on the show were in the casting process. I won't, like, you know, I'll leave that to you to ask that, Rob.

But, you know, we all, we all get cut. I think that the sad reality of the casting is that there's like a huge recency bias. So, like, 48, which was a garbage season, got like four people on. I don't think... I think it's only three. Oh, three, whatever. I don't think any three of them should have been there. You know, it's unfortunate.

I'm not saying I was better, you know, but just the reality is there's a recency bias. But I think they chose two great candidates from our season. I mean, they're probably the top two. So that'll be good. I mean, people are saying it's a top one or two season from the new era. So there should probably be more. You know...

I have a lot of love for our cast. I would gladly see any one of them play again, you know? you know, even Hannah. Hannah would be awesome to watch on season 50. Imagine they came out for Survivor 50 and they said, and from season 45, Hannah Rose is coming back. I would scream. That would be the greatest day ever.

Honestly, I think that social media probably wouldn't even be the most complained about pick from Survivor 50. Yeah, they would, they'd be like, yes, under-edited queen. Putts down. You know, and by the way, the show, the show is like a hundred times more likely to ring back Hannah than it would be like, you know, Sean, Sean is truly despised. All Hannah would need to do is show up with like, you know, you know, 12 months no nicotine. And like, you know, she's got a decent chance, but I don't know.

Yeah. Well, I think that Hannah's story, like, did dovetail into like what they're like, hey, we're showing people like, this, this is hard. A-F, like, this is no joke, what we're doing here. You think it at home, you think you could do this? And she was like, yeah, I didn't know it was going to be like this. All right, I got a bounce. Like, you know, this has been real.

You all have fun, but I did not know it was going to be this hard. There needs to be one of those every season, you know. First boot every season, just someone who just has no idea what they signed up for. So I think it was sort of like confirmation of like, see, we told you it was harder than 39 days. Yeah. I did like the notion of like the least worthy player just bowing out as the first boom, you know, like instead of losing Emily, who was just great. You know, we just had like the person who wanted to be the lighting doors. What's up? Sliding doors moment.

Yeah. Now look at her. Yeah. If Hannah didn't quit, then Emily would not be on 50. It would have been Hannah maybe. That's crazy. Anna would have been a good game player. Hannah would have been a real social threat.

Brandon Donald as well, who I think is lurking. Brandon Donlin, with a little bit more life in the game, would have been quite the social beast. I think he bounced. Sorry, guys. He's horrible. He's the worst place. I take it all back. Sorry.

Maybe Sam Moore. He might be good. Okay. How about from Ben Gregory? This is a controversial question. I mean, it's a hot take. I'll say more than controversy. Could the steel of Oat be more powerful than the idol at final seven?

since it's easier to play correctly. Now, again, just says a disclaimer, Rizzo does not actually have a steal-a-vote. He has a block a vote. But could, is steel-would-you-rather-have-a-vote or an idol at Final 7? I would rather have an idol, I think. Because it's not necessarily going to be four to three. Yeah, exactly. And, I mean, if it's like, so see a-state steal-a-vote, it's like, okay, great.

Now it's five, now it's going to be a five-to-two vote. Exactly. Then all you have to do is win an immunity or two, and you're set to the end with an idol. But if you want a real flashy play, then I think the steal of a vote, I think if you're lower on, maybe lower in the totem pole and chances to win,

making a flashy steel vote could boost you higher than just saving yourself with an idol. So what do you think? I'm kind of been persuaded. I actually see the argument a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Because first of all, the idol, I mean, there's only a one in seven chance. You're going to need to, you know, you're going to be the target yourself.

True. I mean, granted, you could play it on somebody else. And maybe there's, you know, maybe there's only between you and one other person or you know who it's going to be on. But the steel vote has, like, everyone can use it successfully. So you've got a far greater chance of it, if it being valuable than the idol. And the flip side is that final seven is kind of like the moment when the margins are the tightest. And it's the easiest to make a move. And it's also like right before the end.

everyone is incentivized to make a move, even if it didn't happen this season. And so when any kind of move can be made, it's a very uncertain moment. And the steel vote provides certainty because you can kind of, you can take a lot of the variability out of the equation by having two votes. So there's far less maneuvering room. So I think that of any time in the game, the steel vote is as close to the value of an idol. I mean, it's got to be final step. Anyways, I don't know.

Yeah. Should production have given this steal of vote to Stephen in this spot? I do believe that Rachel also got the block of vote in season 47. I think the vote blocker was like the perfect level of strength for what Stephen did. I was thinking that he was going to do that whole thing and they'd be like, okay, you get a minor advantage in this next challenge, which would have been such a dud, but I think a steel vote would have been too powerful, especially with, you know, the knowledge is powers on the game, the immunity idol in the game. What did SOF do to get the knowledge is power?

You just found it. Wow. That's a different argument to make that that should not have been as possible. It is weird in terms of like that to assign like, okay, this is a strenuous task. You'd like to think like, okay, I took a chance. I made a move in public to do a strenuous thing. Like I should get the best advantage for doing this at the final seven where Sophie. just found it like she didn't even was like it just happened to be on the right beach that had

knowledge his power and then like christina just like found an idol didn't have to do anything like but why that poor stephen had to like bust his ass to block a vote what is i mean it is a lot of work to find the idols but but i think you guys are totally off base like there's it makes no sense to give a block of vote at seven because there's two opportunities to use it and you can't use a blockabout at seven, right? There's no number scenario where a blockabout makes sense. So really, you only actually have one opportunity to use the blockabout at six. It doesn't make any sense.

If you're going to give a block of vote, give it at eight. Do you want it to be stronger? I feel like as the game goes further and further, like it's better to have weaker advantages introduced to the game. Like, it'd be crazy if, like, you get this huge advantage and there's only six people left. And then it's like, well, like, you can completely dictate that round. I mean, I'm not saying you should get the Tyler Perry idol, but like the block of vote is non-functionally is toilet paper. And it's also such a public advantage of like he, he went on the thing. Everybody comes out.

You're like, oh, I know he has something. And so like there's kind of like a target on his back to begin with. Like give him something that's going to help him more. I think that would be like a great time to introduce the knowledge of power because like the knowledge of power is. because, like, the knowledge of power is a balancing thing. It inevitably has been ineffective because it's been introduced too early and everyone has talked about it. And so you can counteract it.

And also, at the end of the game, if you're going against people, you know, a group of three that has every single advantage, it's insurmountable. You know, there's no way to win. I mean, you're just never going to beat that group of three. And so if you've got the knowledge of power at that point, then that would be a real spanner in the works. I don't know.

Yeah, I can see that. They swapped. the vote block and then the knowledge is power i think that that would actually be pretty interesting yeah i think that somebody swooping in with knowledge's power after like sort of the advantages and idols are already established and set in the game i think that that would be interesting i don't know if i would be loving it but i think it would be certainly interesting and potentially more game changing than the vote block i feel like as a player too would suck you know you make it to the final seven all of a sudden of knowledge's powers comes

and then you lose everything. And, I mean, I like the weak advantages. I prefer the weaker advantages, but it could just be. You guys don't feel that when we watch these long journey sequences, that they're ultimately waste of time? I mean, like, this was an entertaining one. But, like, typically I'm like, oh, God, another journey. Let's just.

This was a long way to go for Stephen to get a vocal block. But I think that ultimately, from the show's perspective, it was more about showing, you know, Stephen versus adversity, even more so than like how does steven get a vote block yeah a lot of journeys have not had such a payoff but this one did um cupcakes are nice 6357 wanted to ask austin have you eaten any fish or fish accessories since you left the slang does that mean anything to you um i'm guessing maybe that's an island island typo slang i don't know there's a few letters that match.

Wow. I mean, I'd probably eat fish like, you know, every couple weeks that you would eat. Are those eyes? I will say whenever I go to a grocery store with like someone who's watched the season, they'll always point at the eyes. Like, oh, does that look yummy to you? You want that? And I'm like, oh, yeah, it looks so good.

Like, I love it. Do you get mad? Do you have to make fun of me? No, I mean, I'm fine with that. You know, of the different story arcs that people might ask me about. Like, I, fish size is great. Sandwich is great. You know, so I'm down for those.

Okay. Yeah. I do feel like at the beginning, you would be like a little, not like you, but like we'd be a little touchy, you know. Like, I don't want you to recognize me. You're like, oh, yeah, you were pretty bad. But at this point in the game, I'm like, oh, yeah, I was pretty bad, you know, like whatever, you know. Any acknowledgement, we'll take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I'll eat it all. you know bringing i actually have there have been days where like i legitimately was craving that eyeball just for like the experience again i feel like biting into it would just take me back to those glory days you know um but no unfortunately i don't think i've had an an eyeball um since then which is a shame isn't that interesting that you have access to all the world's delicacies here and the thing you clamber for is the the disgusting giant eyeball that you had on Survivor? It was a special eyeball.

I mean, that was huge. They opened, I thought it was a whole mango. Like, it was, it was exciting. I mean, and I am also curious, like, if I had it now, if it would be gross. Because I remember, like, kind of enjoying it on the island, which could have just been because I had no food for the past, you know, three weeks. Yeah. Drew, what does it all mean?

I don't know, man. I don't ask me, Rob. My life is, my life is not going great. I don't know what it all means. But, you know, certainly it means that in the spring we're going to get a good bit of television. So that's something at least. Coming up, okay. Survivor 50 is right around the corner.

We're going to get probably a Survivor 50 preview in two and a half weeks. Oh, forgot about it. That's going to be crazy. They will finally know who's on 49's on it, right? Right. And then we'll finally, do you guys want to lock in any predictions that I thought maybe Jake, because he got bit by the snake, would be a good person to bring back. And I'm trying to think, I mean, it could be one of the soaps. I'll bet you it's going to be Bruce again, you know? I just got a good feeling. That'd be a good pick.

Last minute addition. You know, Stevens making a late push also. Yeah, Shannon, you know, that could be a fun, fun edition. Maybe six or four to one. Yeah. Or Christina or Sage. Mm-hmm. Yeah, bring back Jason and MC, like the alt, like they were alternate, but now.

And Nicole Annie can't be that. They're used to coming in late. Okay. All right. Good bit. Let's lock those in. Yes. Okay.

Drew, any other Survivor 49 thoughts? I don't know. I mean, like, it's turned around in the merge, which is good. You know, I'm hooked again and I'm enjoying. Yeah. Does that ever happen on Jeopardy where it's like, oh, that was a boring first round of Jeopardy? But Double Jeopardy got really good. You know, actually, I don't watch Jeopardy.

What? Yeah. I just, I've never really watched it. He's rolled out. I didn't even watch the game, please. which is but yeah yeah yeah i i don't have too many too many thoughts on this one but i think we covered a lot of them um will you watch the last couple episodes when they come out or will you binge them all again i guess uh you know my i was talking to my girlfriend about the podcast and

she was like oh i want to watch them so you know i think that the two of us we will go through and we will go and watch them i mean for me you know obviously didn't make 50 and so then i was kind I'm like, all right, it's time to take a step back from this whole thing because that was pretty disappointing. But yeah, no, I will continue to watch. I'll text in the chat BCC about it. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun over there on chat BCC, where all of those survivors are breaking down the episode

and talking about Rob's website at Consular VIP Chat to check it out for free. Do you guys have anything you want to tell people to check out? Austin, you got any of? Yeah. Any one with writer jobs? I hear Drew is looking for a job. Maybe his resume will be out there for you to check out. So yeah, I will use my checkout space for Drew's resume. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I have a piece on Desert Island media coming out in LA review of books. On the 11th, you should go read it. What's about? What do you mean Desert Island Media? Yeah, like Robinson Crusoe. It's a review of this book called Friday. I wanted to talk. about, like, my experience in Survivor, but I got kind of a little scared of the contract.

So it just talks about the show a little bit more generally. And, yeah, you should go ahead and, you know, nice little hors d'oeuvre about the genre before you go and read Escape by Stephen Fishback. Yeah, here's wonderful. Okay. Yeah, lots of fun. Also, while you're adding to your reading list, the tribe and I have spoken. You can check it out at rob has a book.com.

And also, if you want to give it as a gift, we'll send you a postcard if you order in the next couple of weeks this holiday season at rob has a book.com. All of my knowledge, my vast knowledge about the game, all of my thoughts on the history of the show, the strategy. It's all in here at The Tribe and I have spoken. All right. Thank you so much for joining us here for a very fun interview. I feel like I got to be Jake or Bruce. I'm hanging with the guys. Hanging with the boys. That's what we were missing out there. If you were there, we would I would have had that, that five would have been the most glorious day ever. It would have been Guy's Night.

The next RIPP live show, it'll be Guys Night 3.0. You, uh, you, me and Austin. All right, let's do it. Let's, you know, order, order the fish eyes. Let's do it. Ooh, okay. You get to be excited. All right.

Thank you so much. I'm ready to take care of a good one. Bye. At Vandal Casino, you get even more ways to play. dive into new and exciting games and all of your favorite casino classics like slots, table games, and arcade games. Get more on Fandual Casino.

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