RHAP: We Know Survivor - Erik Reichenbach Talks Ozzy Lusth | The Survivor 50 Files

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Today, Brandon talks to Erik Reichenbach about Ozzy Luzth's time on Survivor.

What is going on everybody? We are back with another episode of the Survivor 50 Files. We today are going to deep dive. Nobody's diving more than Ozzy in Survivor history. We're going to deep dive into what it's like to play with Ozzy, what it's like to watch Ozzy. And we have here, Survivor Legend, you know him, two tours on Survivor, both Micronesia and Karen Moen. You see Dabudoodles on Instagram, that's this guy as well. It's our good friend, Eric Reichenbach. Eric, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing good, I'm doing well. And as you said, yeah, I'm drawing on Instagram. Dabudoodles is the name. And a lot of people get confused because they're like, Wow, this guy really like Survivor. Who's this Dabudoodles guy? And they don't realize because I don't really post my face on there. That's that guy. That's the guy who gave away immunity.

He's here. We're with him. We're with him right now. Eric, how are you? How are how are things going? 2025 things are going well. I'm watching from the sidelines. I'm more on the sidelines just because I have a young son. A lot of people say stuff like, are you going to play again? Would you ever play again?

And I would not anytime soon. But also, they're not calling me. So I don't think I'm in the I'm not in the queue. I'm not in like the Rolodex for any of that. And that's OK right now for me. But I'm I'm not in the queue. I'm not in like the Rolodex for any of that. And that's okay right now for me, but I'm good. Once you heard about season 50, was there any part of you that was like, I could be on season 50, season 50 might be happening.

Did you have that, is that still flicker? I thought I got a call. I didn't get anything, but I thought I'm like, eh, you might get a call. I don't think I would be on it. The competition's too high. There's too many good players. Now I'll bring up the cast up the cast while we're, while we're chatting about it, before we get to Ozzy, tell me just boilerplate Eric Reagan. What's this? What is this group to you? Is

this a group that you're excited about? Would you make some changes? How do you feel? Um, I had some hot takes. I posted on blue sky actually. Rip them. tell us. It's Jeff's favorites. A lot of this is Jeff. It's Jeff stamp. Personally, I don't think anybody should play five times. I'm a big believer in you should not play any more than five times. And that's more about that's less about the individual playing five times than the just the breadth of how many people you have to choose from with so many different strategies, so many different personalities.

Give someone a second chance, give someone maybe a third chance who did something really amazing their second time around. I'm a big fan of second chances for people because you play so much better. I think Rick Devvens stands out to me as somebody who's essentially, this is gonna be what, his second time playing officially?

This is second time and then yes, in Edge of Extinction he does get voted out fourth and then returns. So really, like one could call it a third time. He got like a second chance at life. So exactly, so Rick Devens comes to mind as he had a first time playing and a second time playing when he came back.

So, this is technically a third time. He played so, like a level of so much insanity better when he came back. And it's that experience and going through that, like, okay, you got voted out. You're not destroyed as a human being. Like, you're here again. Like, I feel like that's a perfect

example of like a second time player and a third time player. You're going to get some really amazing game play. And you kind of see that on seasons where you do have, you know, a two time player or a third time player. And then we have on our top row here, we couple, we have a couple of round fours and then we have two round fives, two of which you played with. You've been with both of these round fives, you know. Yeah. Tell me first about Saree. What's the Saree five time look like for you? So Saree's amazing. This is a foreign way. Saree is wonderful. She's amazing. Everything she touches is great. I have nothing against Sarie personally playing a fifth time.

I'm against fifth time players as like a casting decision. Sarie just needs her own show. Like, forget it. Just have a Sarie show. That's what you need at this point. She's an awesome person. The reason Sarie is great is she's genuinely an awesome person. Like, You take away the gameplay, which is next level gameplay, a core part of why the Black Widow Alliance

worked and a core part of why almost any strategy works on a season she's on, she's a good person outside of that. And that's difficult to navigate, I think, for a lot of people. Russell Hans is the far end of the spectrum of strategy and not a decent person, for a lot of people. You know, Russell Hans is like the far end of the spectrum of like strategy and like not a decent person, not a good person, in my opinion. But Saris, the opposite end, like she's lawful good. But I guess she's a little bit of lawful evil, too, at the same time. We should be using that chart more for all of these people. That's a fun assignment that maybe I'll do it at another point just because

yeah, you have you have to kind of do that. I mean, I don't know if like I think, you know, Rick Devons is Rick Devons chaotic or is Rick Devons chaotic evil? I'm not sure. Well, well, this is kind of the litmus test because I think he was he was just kind of good, like good neutral. And then he got voted out. And then he became, became I think chaotic good.

Yeah, I'm not sure. You feel that like you're kind of playing with house money at a certain point. You're back in, you know, you kind of, you know, and I do think that's a great healthy perspective to have and I wonder for the folks that are playing here, you know, you have Ozzy who's done everything Ozzy's been put out during the jury Ozzy's made it to the end, whatever. But the people who are playing this who haven't lost, I think is a, even if you haven't won, like even if you just made it to the end,

which I think I saw a statistic and I'm not gonna get it right here, maybe 12 or 13 of them have made it to the final tribal council. That I think losing is a skill. And I think it benefits you to go and lose and then come back and play. So your folks like Angelina, Mike White, I'm looking at.

Dee and Charlie and Joe and Kyle, I guess, both of them. I think, you know, feeling that defeat is definitely helpful. And then like I said, you know, Ozzy's and Saree have been in every stage of the situation. They haven't won, but they've done every other thing. So let me ask you first about Ozzy. Tell me Eric, your origin story with survivor. Are you watching survivor for the first time and what is it like to watch, you know, people that obviously your unbeknownst to you that you'll play with,

but I want to take me through watching and then watching Ozzy. You mean like when I was a fan of the show versus like when you're fan pre playing. So some of this, some of this I'm breaking down. I'm making a memoir. This is like my, we're in the edit stage, but I'm making a memoir about my time before, during and after Survivor. So neat. Yeah.

How long have you been working on that? Like I think about three years. It's, we're in the editing phase. I have a publisher, their name's Fifth Avenue Press. It's before, during, and after Survivor. Like why, what led me to Survivor, playing the first time, playing the second time, and then the aftermath. It's part therapy and it's part like historical about Survivor, like pop culture historical. I was drawn to Survivor as like a competitor, like I was a cross-country

runner. Ozzy stuck out as that's the competitor, that's the guy, you know, that's the model for me to play the game. Playing Survivor and going through the first time and then also the second time, Survivor is like a pseudo competition. Like it's actually not truly a competitive show. It's more of a social political show. And as a kid, you don't... I didn't get that. There's all this focus on the challenges. And you start to see as you watch Survivor and if you played Survivor, you start to realize the challenges are kind of like a distraction from the real game that's going on, which is people. It's just all these people.

Ozzy, I looked up to him as like a survivalist. Like he's got that down. Like he was writing a book on coconuts in Micronesia when I was there. And it sounded awesome. I'm still waiting for that book, honestly. Look at the link for the podcast for the Coconut Book. It's down there somewhere, I'm sure, in the YouTube description. And he kills in the challenges, you know, he was like natural in the challenges. As time went on, I realized the challenges were not where it was at. That's

part of it. But you know, your Black Widow Brigade is annihilating people. And then later I started to see, some people went through the game and they didn't win a single challenge, but they won the entire thing. Ozzy, every time he returns, he makes a statement about, I want to be more social. I want to be more strategic. And he doesn't do it. It's almost like a projection of like I feel unsure about that so I need to work on that but it never comes to pass.

Well the the funny memory that I have of Ozzy during game changers is he he is the second member of the jury he gets his torch and I believe he says to the whole he addresses the group and says like good luck catching any any fish, which to me, if like after four times, it does feel like we're still missing the market with survivor is like there are shows where that's important and survivor. It is important to catch fish and survivor, undoubtedly so. But the, if the walking away line while you're processing is good luck catching fish, I don't think that what you're exactly saying is it's the social political part of it. It's not the fish catching survival competition that I think Ozzy every time wants it to be.

And it is never, it's never regressed to that. In fact, we're progressing rather farther away from, like it was kind of close to that in Cook Islands, right? The earlier seasons, you're getting a little of that. Now it's, you know, we're Advantage City on Survivor, new era. And I'm very curious as to how Ozzy navigates this new thing. The picking of the dice and then you're going to the island and you have to play the game. I don't know how Ozzy is going to do with that.

I was thinking about this. I just walked my dog and I was thinking about like, how how Ozzy's gonna do with that. Yeah, I don't, I was thinking about this. I just walked my dog and I was thinking about like, how could Ozzy win? Like how would he win in this season? There's enough connections to people he's played with, like Coach, Sarri, potentially even like Kobe or some of these old schoolers that maybe he didn't play with, but he's in those circles

that maybe he's just a number. And then at the very end, he wins enough challenges to win to the end. Yeah, I would see. Go ahead. I want to get a thought. I just he's, he's not going to change. I feel like he's not going to change if he goes in there. And he decides, I'm not gonna win challenges intentionally to like lower my threat level, I would be like, oh, you are adapting to what is happening. But I just don't see it, man. Yeah, it's interesting is he is one of the only,

and again, I'll put the graphic up just so we can see it. He's one of these new, the only older era survivor contestants who is presently in the world. Like Ozzy is going to events. Ozzy is meeting the new era people. Ozzy is going to the finales in LA. He goes to the, I know he went to the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta. So he's at least even had FaceTime with this newer crowd. Whereas Colby most certainly has not. Stephanie, Jenna most certainly hasn't coach I know is recently kind of dipped his toe back in Aubrey. No, you know, um, so I'm interested in that he does have those connections.

I do wonder though, when you have somebody who goes on survivor in 2006 and then 2007 with you and then 2011 with South Pacific 2016 with game changers and there is a lack of adapting majorly in those times. Like what is the cause to adapt now? Like what is the, did he get the strategic bug to now change that play style? I'm not sure. Yeah. I don't know.

I, my, I'm convinced it's honestly more of an ego thing. It's more of a like, this is the thing I'm known for. And he's like you said, he's been here so like, this is the thing I'm known for. And he's like you said, he's been here so long. He's been through so many eras. It's he's known as being a challenge beast. And he gets he gets some I think, some emotional return on that. And I think honestly, that's more like, helpful to him to have than to say, Hey, I'm going to switch up my strategy. And it's nothing personal against him. I think that's just how he's wired.

Yeah, it's interesting. And he's he's not the only challenge beast that's going to be here. You know, a lot of the times that he plays a granite, it's a survival show. It's Survivor. So there are people who are good at challenges. But Ozzie is like when you ask a survivor fan off the street who maybe hasn't watched in 10, 15 years, they remember Ozzy for being good at the challenge. So I am unsure of like, he's gonna be with Joe from season 48 who you just watched win four immunities.

He's gonna be with Colby who granted, nobody really knows the return on investment we're gonna get from Colby this time. Colby in his heyday, great at the challenges. Chrissy Hoffbeck wins four immunity challenges. Dee wins a bunch of challenges. So it's not, he's not the only guy with this particular set of skills. You know, he's not Liam Neeson. There's 10 Liam Neesons.

Uh, excuse me. Why are you walking so close behind me? Well you're a tall guy. You throw a decent shadow when I'm walking in it to keep out of this bright sun. It hurts my eyes. Okay, well you know what, Spec Savers, you can get two pairs of glasses from $149 and, oh you'll like this, one can be a pair of prescription sunglasses. Sounds great! Where's the nearest store? Mmm, not far. Come on. Let's hurry then! To my count! One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, Get unlimited grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Meal prep delivered.

Snacks delivered. Fresh fruit delivered. Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at PCExpress.ca. Let me ask you, when you hear about Season 50 for the first time, whenever this is, a couple months ago, and it's just like the rumors start going, the Twitter is going to Twitter is twittering, the blue sky is sky. You know, who do you think's on it? If you had to just guess eight months ago of who's on it? Is that close to what we got for the season?

It is. I do think that they they missed an opportunity by like, there's this huge gap of seasons. I don't know exactly what number there's a huge gap of seasons. I don't know exactly what number. There's a huge gap of seasons of like nobody. Like they didn't pick anybody. The 20s are noticeably missing, I think. Even from like, we have coach who's 18 and then Aubrey's 32. So we have those middle seasons, which granted Ozzy plays in two of them,

but there's no new faces from that time. And it does seem like a weird, it seems like a weird split. But let me ask you about Ozzy. When you are on Fans vs. Favorites, are you sequestered with the favorites? Do you know the favorites are there at this point? I literally have a page on that. What is the name of your memoir, Eric?

Do you have a name yet? It's not, that's the secret thing we're going to reveal. That's going to be a reveal when I'm when I do pre orders probably in the fall. Oh, I can't wait. It's work in progress for now, though. Let me see. We were we were we were put differently. So we were sequestered 10 fans.

And Mikey B, one of the fans, like he had done all kinds of like online research and at the time, you know, 20, what was it? 2008, 2007, like there really wasn't anything out there to like research. It was just Survivor Sucks, whatever they were saying on that website. We're sequestered, there's only 10 of us, that's not enough to play the game. We really have no idea what's going on, or at least I don't. So I assume there's another tribe somewhere. We get into our boats to finally go to the beach to meet Jeff and they say, okay, you can talk now.

And Mikey B immediately is like, this is a fans versus favorites. I know it. There's only 10 of us. There's got to be 10 more. This lines up when the last fans Like the last season that was an all-star season was around Mikey B called it like he needs and he's like rattling off people He's like Yao man's probably gonna be there They're probably gonna have the James guy who was on the recent season China, which we only saw like three episodes of

He's like just rattling off names like these people are gonna be there and I'm like, are you serious? Like he's blowing my mind and we get to the beach and they're all there. Wow. He knows what he know that he just that was just his inclination. So one of two things happened. He either did a ton of online research and like talk to whoever it was, or he leaked

from production like he he like schmoozed with somebody on production and got to know, he kept asking leading questions or those Jedi mind trick questions where you can be like, oh, it's going to be a nice, I hope the weather's great in Palau. And then they're like, yeah, Palau is going to be really great when we get there. And then you're like, you just revealed that we're going to Palau. Oh, so you didn't even know that? I didn't know that until I got my ticket. Wow. I wonder if that's, I don't know enough of if that's how they used to doow. Oh, so you didn't even know that? I didn't know that till I got my ticket.

Wow. I wonder if that's I don't know enough of if that's how they used to do it because it's so like obviously we all go to Fiji now but I wonder if that's I don't know that detail is if that you were presented the place once you got the ticket in LA. Yeah, we had no idea. They don't tell you. They didn't tell us. And then when we went to for Caramon, they didn't tell us either. didn't tell us. And then when we went to, for Caramone, they didn't tell us either. And I had read rumors about the Philippines. And so I said to the casting guys, I'm like walking down the hall. I'm like, I'm like, I really hope customs isn't a pain in the butt when we get to the Philippines. He's like, no, it should be fine. And I'm like, you just revealed we're going to the Philippines. And he got, he was so mad at me. And I was like, like,

this is a stupid biker player. You gotta, you gotta use the strategy when you can use a strategy. That is so funny. So your, your reaction then, so you watch Ozzy, Ozzy is the guy. Ozzy is the challenge guy. Ozzy walks out. What's the feeling of like, now you got to play my memory serves me. I think you have a confessional about this, but what's it like to now you're playing without your, your direct competition is this guy who's the guy. I have to beat him.

That's the direct competition. I had seen cook. I had seen Ozzie on Cook Island season previously. And I thought the hype over his challenge prowess was greatly exaggerated. Facing someone like Ozzie was something I wanted as a competitor. This was something I had trained to do. And then Jeff basically says, go. And we, and I beat him.

I beat him across the, across the island. You get that little, that little thing, or you don't get the little thing. You're close to the little thing off the thing. That is so neat. That's the next page. The next page, basically, um, we all got confused. Nobody knew what to do once we crossed the beach. Even Ozzy didn't know what to do.

Um, and I think Yao Man and Kathy ended up with the idol when we crossed the island. But no, I wanted to beat him. I wanted to be like, he's the model, he's the challenge beast, target him and beat him at his own game. And I thought he would be resting on his laurels because he did so well and he got second

and he won the car on his season. And I was like, he's probably full of himself. He probably thinks he's going to be walking in here and he, I'm a nobody. He has no idea who I am. I'm going to beat this guy. I'm going to show everybody, you know, I'm going to out Ozzy Ozzy. And then by the end of the season, I realized you don't need to out Ozzy Ozzy. That's not what this is about.

This is not a competition track me. This is a social political game. And you know, that's that's foresight that you built in 36 days, 35 days that I don't think Ozzy, Ozzy might not have ever have landed there. Like I think that that's an interesting, you know, even now, you know, what is Ozzy like a new just from off the shelf, you know, you do the the way that the new era is operating, we're all, you know, you do the way that the new era is operating. We're all, you know, hanging out at parties and stuff. What's Ozzy like just normally?

He's chill. He's a chill guy from Venice Beach. He's like the color. That's where he when I went, it's actually stayed with him for like two days after Survivor Micronesia ended. And I stayed at his house because I had nowhere to stay because Alexis was there. And I think Amanda was there. And he was hanging out with Amanda because she was in town. He's like, just stay at my place. So I stayed at his place in Venice

Beach. And we're just chilling. It was like the least competitive environment ever. It was basically walk down the street and get a coffee and go to the beach. And if you want, you can go surfing. If you want, that's almost too pressure. It's like, hey, listen, you know, we're,, listen, we're hanging out. Did you expect Amanda on this situation in season 50? Were you expecting to see Amanda again?

I was hoping. I feel like Amanda can't get away from her survivor past of underperforming or people thinking that she's less good than she is because she plays alongside other great players. I would have liked to see Amanda, you know, what would this be version four of Amanda? This is four, this is, yeah, yeah,

this is the returns of Heroes vs. Villains. That was somebody who, it wasn't until a week before the cast was leaked and then announced that, I thought was 1000% in, I didn't, there wasn't ever a question that she wasn't. And I guess we'll never really know. I know Sharon Tharp, who's an entertainment reporter, who's lovely. Hi, Sharon Tharp. She posted that in an interview that is coming soon, it is revealed that she had scheduling

conflicts that she maybe was interested in going. But it's season fifth. What's the scheduling conflict? No? Just come hang out. Very interesting.. You go play again. You're back in it five years later, I guess, around about 10 seasons later. Is there anything that you take from Ozzy or maybe it's what Ozzy doesn't have that you're now taking with you on your second time? Oh, you're talking about Caramoham? Caramoham, when you returned. It basically was lower my threat level. Just lower your threat level no matter what.

You can be a competitive beast, but you don't want people, you don't want to brag. Unless you're Tom Westman and you can win every single challenge in a row to the end, like five out or six out, just lower your threat level. And Caramohan, that's something that I did. I basically was like, I'm a number, you know, keep me in the conversation. And then just if I can get within that window of like the last three, five, six, somewhere in there, start trying to win challenges

because you've hung out as like a non-threat for so long. I still, I don't think that's a good strategy though still because there's some weird challenge that you're not like an expert at. Like someone might be better at bag throwing or someone's better at balancing on a beam and then it doesn't matter. It has no, it doesn't matter that you're good at, you know, obstacle courses or whatever. Yeah. And even in the most recent seasons, I think that, you know, um, this came up in season 47 about challenge wins is like what makes, you know,

I think Andy asked the question of what makes Rachel's win with challenge differences or challenge wins different from a Ben, um or a Mike Holloway who just kind of wins their way to the end. I mean, that's not really the way the game has been played for quite a while. The challenge wins mean less than they maybe ever have in this current iteration of the show. You know, the fans versus favorites is an interesting concept. It's like you're, I mean, you're, I think by far and away, the biggest fan the first time

on your Tribe of Ten, is that fair to say? By like a lot. And even the second time, there's no, I mean, right before we recorded, we mentioned Ali Povivac, who is second out. There weren't fans really the second time, like huge fans. I'm trying to think. They weren't to the same level, no.

And now, you know, you have the new era where everybody's a fan. Everybody's the super fan. Everybody with, you know, I wonder how a fans versus favorites looks like now with like, you are maybe one of now 20 total in the fans, two fans tribes who was like a super fan on the caliber of fans of today.

How does that work now? I wonder with 10 actual fans of the show, people who like, you know, there are people on your beach, you know, when the folks are running out, you don't recognize them. You know, they were like, you know, you could tell the faces of confusion. I mean, I remember when Amanda walked out, I think Mario Lanza has a funny 115 article where like, she gets kind of like a polite golf clap. Is there some people like who's who is she? Yeah. But it's such an interesting thing of like, I wonder, you know, I don't think they'll ever bring back that format. But I wonder how it plays differently with actual fans of the show. Yeah, it's it's hard to extrapolate. It's

hard to understand what what like what the end product is, like who they put on the show versus like what they are, like how did they get into that area, I guess. There's like this marketing effect that happens where it's like, these are fans of the show. And they might not be fans, you know, they're just framed as fans. And I think that's one reason that I think they went away from the like, the subtitles like Heroes, Hustlers and all that David's verse Goliath like those types of things I think they got away from those because there was some flack about that with respect to like what somebody is or labeled

as or not. Yeah. Nobody's ever been labeled a healer, you know, and they're like, hey, healers are very arbitrary. But now you have these new era seasons, which I obviously have, you know, top of mind. And I can graph out just because I this is I love this. But for the casual fan, nobody knows the difference between 43, 45 and 47. You know, right. Right. I would even just like them to throw in like a Ghost Island is a huge concept.

But even if you just had a name that was just like, you know, a generational war and it's like, it doesn't mean anything, but it's like I just any kind of like designated thing that changes the seasons just because, you know, I very much hear the critique of they all kind of blend together. Yeah, both your seasons, everybody you got two names on both seasons. Right? It's pretty nice. I'm old school now.

Like I didn't think I would ever be'm old. I'm old school now. Like I didn't think I would ever be old school. I'm old school player now. What are your old school observations of how the new era is operating week to week? I'm super intimidated by new school. If I play players in the game, if I play it again, I would be at the whim of new schoolers for sure. I would basically be like, there's so much mental effort in there. Like everybody's like a Cochrane and then some. It's amazing. It's insane. It's like, I just kind of, I'm very old school in that respect of like, let's keep this really simple. Let's scramble before tribal, you know, a little that's fine. But there's like Cochrane as an example, would like game all day and all night.

And he'd pull in new people to game with, like to talk with, like he'd pull in Andrea, he'd pull in whoever. It's just far and away something that's not, like it's so intimidating. And then if you have a tribe of people doing that, every single computer is running its own different software on high proficiency gameplay. That's

where you're going to get things like these, you know, voting blocks forming or like whispering at tribal council and that type of stuff. I would be a bit of a dinosaur, I think, if I played again. I have it, I wrote down a couple times that if people were doing the whole live tribal, like whispering around me, I would bring a water bottle and I would just start dumping it on people. Because it's like, that is not acceptable behavior at tribal council. Like I would just be like, and I'd tell people,

I'd be like, if you guys start whispering at tribal, I will literally dump water on you. I don't care if you're in my Alliance. Like, let's keep this simple. Like we don't need to have this level of like anxiety. It's like the anxiety emotion from inside out to who's like on a switchboard going like this. Yeah, I'm the dinosaur, you know, joy in the background swatching. That is such an interesting observation that made me think of like, there's going to be

people who are on this season who have played 39 days, you know, Ozzy's played 100 days, so is Sarai. And this expedited format, you know, everybody, the older era folks, they talk shit on like the decrease in day change. But the competition might be harder than the actual elements are. Like I'm wondering when they come back, you know, I just had, I talked to Ethan's on about Jenna Lewis and I had said that there's going to be somebody who's played 39 days who comes back and says the 26 days is hard and Eliza is going to have a heart attack and all these people who are like so steadfast on the 39 days is harder.

And it may not be the elements. It may be just because it is you're going, going, going. Whereas you're describing is like, you had days where you're just hanging out at the beach. You're just laying, you know, yeah, you do not Yeah, it's so foreign to now granted. I didn't I didn't make it far enough to experience I actually day two and day four out of the five days were days of nothing But you know, you're having a day of nothing every cycle you're having, you know

What 18 days of nothing at that point, which is a lot of you know, the new era merge. It's every day It's it's your boom. It's like the last day of school, the last week of school when they're all half days, you know, that's what you're going at that schedule where you're having days where it's just fratantic. If the old school is smart, they're gonna band together. That was, I mean, Survivor 40, that's what happened. The old school got decimated, you know, for that reason.

If they're smart, they'll stick together. I don't know if... I'm really curious to see how the alliances break out and how much context is needed to understand pre-gaming, like who has relationships outside the game. Like I know like 40, that was I think the first season that really addressed outside the game alliances in a way, like the pre-gaming concept in a way that was like into the show that actually affected it. It's going to affect it even more here. Like they're going to have besides showing like past seasons where Coach and Ozzy were beefing or Saree and Ozzy were beefing, you're going to have to show that like maybe those events like maybe Ozzy is going to bring up like, yeah, I hung out with Dee and whoever at this event and we made a final three packed, you know, a month ahead of this.

It was so funny is you play Blood on the Clocktower. I know you've played with the survivor folks. And they're here like Emily and Christian who are playing Blood on the Clocktower weekly are playing together. There are people who tag in, you know, it's just like on 40, they show that footage of the Poker Alliance, which I think was like the, it felt like archival footage for the first time in Survivor history. You know, they just show a random clip.

There's lore with the folks that play online, especially now. And I'm curious to hear this from you because I think of like the early Survivor, everybody's hanging out all the time. Everybody's touring around. And I think of new era Survivor as that again, where I feel like, and correct hanging out all the time, everybody's touring around. And I think of new era survivor as that again, where I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like that's missing a little bit in the time that you play.

Were you, did you find that to be your experience where you're like surrounded by survivor people all the time for a couple of years? Yes, it was, you know, you're on the show, it's fantastic, you have this new group of like social group. You're flying to events to hang out with them and events are inviting you. And so you're going and that's where you're like seeing these people.

What is it? 2025 right now, maybe six years ago, I stopped regularly going to those events because it just became new people. And a lot of the old people that I connected with stopped going. And so I'm in that old grandpa mode of like, it's the social scenes faded away. You know, I don't I don't need to be in that that circle those circles anymore. It was there. It's there though. It's so fresh when you're on.

People compare it to high school, but it is literally like high school. Like even the year out, you go home for Thanksgiving, you're at the bar on Wednesday night with all your high school. But then at a certain point, granted you wait three years, you're like, who, who are these people? Like I've never, you know, once you're kind of graduating class, the freshman, when you're a senior, once they are now seniors, you're like, what are we doing here? Um, so that's a very funny observation.

Um, how was that time for you going around and doing all those events? Was that a fun time? It was awesome. It was just awesome. It was just like entertaining and as a fan you're like seeing in real life. You know, I got to meet coach like fresh off of coach's token chain season. And I'm like, this guy's such a character. This is crazy.

Like you're in you pulled this guy out of the TV and you hang out with him. It was awesome. There's no question. If I was on again, I probably would go to a few of those events to do that again. Because it's really invigorating. It's really cool. Have you found anything about Survivor to help you

as you've just now recently become a father? You've been a recently become a father? You've been a father for a minute? Four years. He just turned four years. Is there any is there any skills that translate from being like on the show or off that you've just learned in this world that translate to being a dad? The sleep deprivation is rough.

So race so we don't really have supports my my I family, but they're kind of all over the place. And they're not, like, we can't, we don't have grandparents that are, like, watching the kid every single day or every weekend. We don't have a ton of supports. I would say raising a kid is tougher physically than survivor. And that's generally, it's not because of the food. The food is very tough on survivor. And that's generally it's not because of the food. The food is very tough on survivor that that no contest. Sleep deprivation is nuts when you

have a kid, especially a young kid. I slept more on survivor than I did when he was one. And that the other thing is the length of time, you know, years, you're doing this for potentially years if you have no support. So by year one, I was like, this is going to kill me and I started to have gray hairs and now I have gray hairs. It's very stressful. It's very tough. It's very rewarding. Obviously, your child is amazing. But it's physically is very tough. And I have a utmost respect for anybody who's on Survivor as like a parent, because they've gone through something so much tougher than I think I ever did in like my 20s running track or something silly.

Wow. Interesting. It's such a weird, you know, it's the you never hear about it, but it's it's harder. It's harder now than it was to be on the profit on the island. No, there's no question. Starving was the hardest thing for me. That was the hardest thing for me out there. You're so you know, you were you were thin or you're thin. Now, you're Yeah, I'm, I'm, I fluctuate between like 150 and 155 at six foot. And I lost 15 pounds, both seasons like give or take. But

it was nuts. Like I was like, that was easily the worst part of survival for me was the hunger. The sleep deprivation was not as bad. You didn't sleep as much because you're uncomfortable or some nights you didn't sleep at all because it was raining on you. But it's sleep deprivation long term with child, with raising a kid that's tough. You know like three months with like three hours of sleep a night or something. And there's no million dollars at the end. In fact, you lose money.

Awesome, yeah. Which is very funny. Tell me about when you think about Ozzy in 2025. Horribly. To transition. That's very funny, though. It's interesting. You never get to hear the perspective of somebody who's had such an experience. When you think about Ozzy going to season 50, and you think about like his ideal alliance partner,

what kind of qualities are actually not even his ideal alliance partner. If you had to pick an alliance partner for him, who do you pick for him, knowing him, having played with him? Who's our guy? Let me throw our- Yeah, yeah. That was the bring him up finger.

That was the bring up the cast finger. Joe, I mean, Joe has, I'm curious to see Joe play again alongside Ozzy. There's some like-minded people here with this like old school thread of like, caveman kills food, brings it home to family. Like Joe is in that like caveman mentality group. Um, let's see here.

It's so funny. So I just talked to, I just talked to Tina Wesson about Colby and I asked Tina the same question and Tina's like, Oh, Colby's going to love Joe. Joe is for the people who think that Joe is getting voted off early in this situation. Joe's touching eighth and above, at least I think, with the people, the new era people. I mean, I'm sorry, the older era people. Joe is their guy. Yeah. And Jonathan, I just saw Jonathan, Colby, Ozzy. You just saw Jonathan recently in person or just on this graphic?

Sorry, on the graphic. Sorry. You just saw Jonathan recently in person or just on this graphic? Sorry, on the graphic. Sorry. I just saw Jonathan there. That's Ozzy, Kobe, Jonathan, Joe. Similar mindset of strength is strength. And then you have a lot of disruptors. You have Camilla who hits people with buses, Genevieve. I'm so excited to see Tiffany play again.

I'm very interested to see how she's going to play. And just to like make her more interesting, they threw in a cue on the side. She's a top winner pick potential for I know Rob right before Rob left. Rob had said that on a podcast that Tiffany is the only person who's coming into here with like, I shouldn't say only, but like a lot less of a reputation than everybody else who's here, which will help her. And I, you know, who knows this group, who knows the meta of the returning survivor seasons, but like, and the workage wins all stars and poverty wins yours, yours Joe. And you have Sarah Lucina who wins game changers.

So like the recipe works for Tiffany who like plays really great her first time, um, room for improvement, certainly to come in and, and beast mode this. Yeah, I know. I just realized there's those two in the bottom corner that are kind of unknowns. I've heard spoilers on them. Um, honestly, no matter who they are, I don't think, unless it's like the next Sandra or the next Tony, like I just don't, this group is super strong in a lot of ways. Like I know I'm bashing it because it's Jeff's favorites or they missed all the 20s. I honestly,

there's already so much going on with this season. I don't know how any these two will be any relevance other than They might have the benefit of none of these players have seen them play That might be the only benefit they have because Malcolm had that on Caramela and we didn't know how he did and we didn't see how he played and Then we eventually figured it out though like halfway through were like wow This guy's pretty smart and pretty athletic and we need to kick them off. Well you and Andrea have both had the same experience where you've played multiple times with like a non entity.

Granted, you got to Andrea twice with Malcolm and then Zeke and Michaela didn't get to see them at all. At least you had seen Amanda or James. Was there any thought to that they won? Did you ever have that thought when you were there? I thought Amanda did really well because nothing nothing else made sense. You know, James, I think James I'm trying to remember, he didn't pull his big mistake before I left. He was like still on the show. But we just assumed that he

was like a fan favorite. And then was it ever apparent to you during the game? Is that something you learn while you're playing like where they up, roughly where they ended up? I know Amanda went to both seasons thinking that she won. Yeah, the. What was it? So Malcolm, specifically, we were told. Crap, what were we told?

Jeff said he made it to the final four. That's what he said. Really? And that was, I I believe stated to everybody. Amanda it was we were told she made it to finals, I believe I think they did tell us that information. And there was some weird caveat because then we started to pick at it because Malcolm could tell us what he wanted to. We were given the baseline of information like he made it to made it to fourth. And then he had to tell us what he wanted to. We were given the baseline of information like he made it to

made it to fourth. And then he had to tell us like, how did you get there? What was your season like? And then we had to basically, it was like a it was like an exile island situation where we're like, what is true? What is not true? You know, what does he like, we only have to go off his word. That is so interesting. I'm wondering now with these two non-entities, is that something that I wonder if this group gets the heads up on how they did? I would imagine some statement will be said about placement. I believe we got that. I need to double check on that. Maybe I'll ask, let me ask, I can ask Cochran. Let me message Cochran and see if he'll respond to me. It really is an interesting thing of like, you know, you play with Malcolm who then goes to ninth place.

I did some number crunching before they left for Survivor 50. Once I heard a possibility of the Survivor 49 duo and those folks who return not having been seen place ninth and above every time. They're always going deep, which is, you know, it's good information to have it, but like that is a spot. That's one of nine spots that could be yours.

You know, it feels like it is easy and it's never happened to where one of those people on a back to back season goes out early. Like Malcolm, I'm assuming, I mean, granted, you guys, you go to tribal council the first round and then not again as that tribe. But Malcolm is never going to be in any danger on that early. Like Malcolm, I'm assuming, I mean, granted, you guys, you go to tribal council the first round and then not again as that tribe. Um, but Malcolm was never going to be in any danger on that tribe. No, no, no, he just fit right in, you know? Right. Um, which is interesting is, is we're not, you know, I, I wonder that for these folks, if it could be a quick tenure. Cause also like not to say that the game changers group isn't as hungry as season 50 or

Caramoham isn't as hungry but like yeah, it feels hard for me to see Jenna Lewis or a Colby or a siree risk Them leaving over somebody they don't even have a name of until and a couple hours before they start That seems to me right and there's also a possibility that one of these people could be like a an Aussie type You know, we don't we don't necessarily know that. I think it's along with him particularly well, but right. We'll see. It's definitely an unknown. Yeah, it's an unknown. So I'm sorry. In terms of picking an ally for Ozzy, tell me somebody who you think Ozzy will not gel with if they're on the same tribe. Who's Ozzy's like, criminal knight of this group? Oh, it's gonna be New School and it's gonna be like a somebody who's deemed as like a liar or a sneak.

Or you know, he might even, some of these chaos people like, you know, Q just generating chaos, he might not want to deal with that. But I think like, he might not gel with Chrissy, he might not gel with Genevieve, Camilla. There's this unknown, there's this unknown with Ozzy that, like you said, he's going to events, he is making connections. So you could see him, you know, connect with somebody that you intuitively, I'd be like, nah, they would never team up. Like he might team up with like D or he might team up with like who else from this list? Maybe like, well Kyle maybe even? I don't, I really don't know. So there might, if he's evolved any and he's made some connections, he could surprise me. I'm expecting

old Ozzy and I'm expecting the same exact gameplay from him. And what did you, if you had to assign a placement to Ozzy, is first couple members of the jury something you're considering? Or I mean, firstly, I'm really bad at picks. I'm honestly I'm terrible at picks. I'm going to say though. He's either going to go out with all the old schools at the same time, like one after another. Or he's going to be part of something bigger than him.

Like maybe he's teaming up with like a hybrid old school, new school team. And in that case, he'll make it past the merge. And then right after the merge, he's going to be in trouble. He needs to watch his back. Yeah. That's the dangerous. I mean, even in the new era, like you're like a hunter type who's like really good at the challenges and the pre merge, like, you know, the first second,

third member of the jury, like it feels, and that's what game Aussie did in game changers is right around that same spot. Is there anybody here, Eric, that you have talked with and interface with in the past, like any of the I'm very curious about the new era, folks, as like you were maybe, you know, more presently with the folks from the older era. But are there anybody here that you've had any kind of relationship with? Yeah. So, yeah, like old school that you've had any kind of relationship with? Yeah. So yeah, like old school, you know, three Aussie coach, I've met all of them hung

out with them. Rick Devons I talked to at the Florida event a few times, and he actually voiced he's a voiceover in he plays himself in a YouTube video I made called High School Vampire Chronicles, which makes fun of the Twilight series. Love it. He plays a news reporter. I was gonna say that makes sense. That was my first question. Nothing else with anybody here, honestly. And I draw comics, and so I'll talk to people through chat.

Like, I'll draw a comic of them, and they'll say, wow, that's hilarious. You drew this perfectly. And then just Christian, because I played Blood on the Clock Tower that one time. Oh, you only played the one time. I didn't know if you were in the rotating crew. I played once.

They loved Blood on the Clock Tower. I loved that. That game was very fun, and I got kind of grumpy during it, because I was like, guys, stop. I loved that game. I had to quit playing because my child woke up. He heard me yelling at the computer and woke up.

When you say guys stop, what was the situation that you were in? Because people will dig this if it's like people in the world, you know? Yeah. They were. So there's the main lobby where everybody's doing whatever. And then they go into their little private chats. Everybody go into private chats and I'm left in the lobby. And I'm just like, hey, what's up? I'm

talking to whoever. And I'm like a full transparency guy. I'm like, my belief is aggressive transparency. And so when people come back in, they start chatting in there like a little bit. It's like surface level. It's like how's the weather? Did you see that new video about whatever? And then I was like, what are you guys talking about in the rooms? And someone said something like, we're talking about who we're going to vote out. And like, are you going to vote out me?

Are you going to target me? And that was a little too direct. And I said, I don't care if you're going to kill me. Just tell me if you're going to kill me. And it got like, I didn't want to go into these private chats. I was more about like, just all talk in the lobby, which is kind of like the same idea as like pouring water all over everybody

when they start whispering. Yeah. I think aggressive transparency is the way to go, but people don't like that. I think a lot of survivor groups like to do sideline chats. And this also screwed me over in sequestered. I played sequestered a long time ago. And I was actually kind of mad at the format of that too, because in sequestered, it's all about those private chats and how quickly you can make deals and stuff.

Um, and I got really grumpy about that one too. I'm a dinosaur. I think I'm a dinosaur. I think if I played again, people would be like, that's like an 80 year old in like a 40 year old body. But you know what people, if you, if you Eric Rickenbach never play 16 and 26, and then you are randomly on season 48,

like that is a welcomed change from the new era that you know, like there's a guy, Kyle from season 47, who kind of, I felt fit that similarly, who would strategize when he had to, but really he's there, not to say he's there to not strategize, but he is not with the same, you know, which is interesting as you are a super fan who has that, because most of the super fans are,

you know, 100 miles an hour wanting to, you know, game, game, game, which that you said that about Cochrane, that surprises me about Cochrane. And it's it's been a minute since I've watched Caramohan, obviously all the way through. But he to me, like, from what I recollect from the edit there, it just feels very like mob bossy, where he's not scrambling as much. Was that he was scrambling in behind the scenes? He was. And his confessionals were very different than he was, you know, person to person, person to person, he was very demure and calm and clear and more chill.

And then he'd go into a confessional and he just lighted up. And I think they also, I think production was also kind of like, no, no, no, get into there. Tell us really what you feel, Popper, and really dive into it. He was not a mob boss to work with. He was just kind of a gentle, gentle, you know, nerdy dude. Yeah, that seems to trend like towards the new era also, like I think of a Charlie, who I think is very similar to that archetype. And I'm interested now, you know, you have folks that have played with a

Cochrane type back in the day who like remember, oh, that was the Cochrane guy who was like, you know, doing all of this for the audio listeners, I kind of puppeteer and I have puppeteer and they're more wary of him. Do you have, and I know you're bad at picks, do you have a winner pick for Survivor 50? I'd love to see Tiffany win. That'd be amazing. And just to see Q explode would be amazing. I would like somebody who's, I would like to be validated in my thought that like a second and a third time returnee is like, that's the successful place here. And I want that to be the thing that happens so that maybe Jeff and production is like, yeah, let's not bring back people a fifth time when we have all these quality people waiting in line to play a second time or a third time.

Yeah, I think that this is now a beta test to whether the next all-star season is. You have like a new era second chance or a second chance over 50 seasons. Yes. Or we get legends or we get another like arbitrary theme that we get just and I granted I don't I think this is it for Serena. I think this is if Rossi but like I think we get more of that type a second time should they do well. But if they show up and it just doesn't go their way,

then I think that part of the experiment had failed. I wanna ask more about the memoir. You obviously, you have a famous survivor moment. How is that writing that, like how is writing that reflected in the memoir for you? It's definitely, it's pivotal. It's definitely pivotal because people don't understand it. They just don't get it.

The person who was closest to like putting it out there was Dalton Ross when he did his oral history of Survivor and he went through that moment, which he really loves as a moment. I myself have been processing it for years. You know, am I stupid? Am I a dumbass? Like was I played? There's so much involved there with it.

And also as somebody who's a fan of the show, like how can you know and love the show and do something so like monumentally stupid? So I've tried to like, that's part of the therapy part. But part of this too is just like, if I dig into it and understand it, I can then teach other people about it and like why it's unique. Because there's way more to it than just you were a dumbass and you gave away immunity. You like you have 12 years, if you said you wrote this has been a process of writing this

for three years, you have 12 years thinking about it. And then three years working on this. Has there been more like headway into thinking about it in a different way in those three years? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's tough. Tell me, we're trending in which direction now. We're trending in the direction of postmodernism, I guess. I don't know. Like the idea that life is absurd

and the rules are like placeholders. There's kind of this idea of like, you have this really rudimentary understanding of competition, you know, winners and losers. And then it kind of opens up into like, but also you have to be a good person. And also, you know, you can have wins, stuff that are considered wins that aren't like winning the game or staying on survivor at the longest or,

you know, what you do with your fame after survivor, because some people feel guilt about like not doing more stuff after survivor. And it kind of it kind of put the whole thing on its head of like, what does it mean to be a winner? Like, what does it mean to have success? I think a lot of success is like an iceberg where there's a lot going on under the surface, but people only see the top. They only see Sandra won two times or Tony won however many times or this person won

against all odds. I don't think it's that straightforward. Yeah, and it's a tough thing to have such a tangible. Like, Sandra has two tangible wins. Like, Tony has two tangible wins. And your thing is very, it is a tangible handing off of something, which is, it sticks with, again, it's not the same thing, but I, Eric, I have a tangible thing that happened to me, a tangible crawling up of something that is like, I think it sticks because it is so, people don't remember, and again, not to speak on your situation, but I've never understood the big swing equaling dumb move. Like a big swing that doesn't work.

Isn't a dumb move. If it's a big swing, I think of like a woo who has a choice, whether to take Tony or to take cast to the end, he will win against cast. He knows he will win against cast. And he takes Tony over an honor thing. If the goal of survivor is to win survivor and to not lose survivor, that is losing survivor in an instance. Whereas you didn't do that. Like I don't think that you did that. I don't think JT did that with writing the letter. I think that's a swing. And I Tyson says it in the heroes versus

villains finale about when he switches his vote and then gets voted out in that tribal council. Like if it would have worked, it would have been really cool. And that is always how I felt about that particular moment. Whereas when you make a move that 100% ensures that you will lose the game, that is a worse move to me. I mean, that's the argument that everybody makes. Giving away immunity, that was the losing move. That's the argument made to me. I'm playing devil's advocate here,

because it's like, I've been on both sides of this argument. Certainly. Yeah, it just seems. Yeah, I've always said that like I and I'd rather watch a swing. You know what I mean? I'd always rather like there's intent with a swing. There's passion with a swing. And not to say there's passion in integrity and taking the person who will maybe win the game to the end. But I just think that like in a game that is binary, and the goal is to win when you lose, I feel like when you do something to make you lose, I don't know. And it seems like that's what it was because they play the clip all the time. You know what I mean? They play. I feel very impassioned about this. This is something that I think about, you know, quite often. It's, it's, it's been like 15 years and I still get messages of like, no, or like,

oh my God, you did the so it's like, it's like, I'm a mortal now, like, this will be on my tombstone. Like this is, this is a moment that like transcended winning or losing a game. It's like, it's like, I lost so big in a way that it broke it and people remember remember that was was Micronesia, a season that ended up on Netflix. It was. Did you feel a Netflix wave when Netflix happened? Yes. Yeah. That is so interesting to me. Yeah. And I remember the cast. I remember it was like all of a sudden I started to get messages.

I'm like, what the hell is happening? And then I looked on Netflix. Just we're watching, we're just watching on Netflix. And there's me on the last gas challenge with the great. And I'm like, they put me on the profile picture. I'm like, what in the hell? And that's what happened.

Some younger, kind of younger kids are like, you got so played by those women. And I'm like, you are like 10 years late. We've had three presidents since that's happened. You know, we've had a couple of people. You exist when this happened. That is so funny. Um, wow. Listen, I, I, I geek out over stuff like this. This is so much fun for me. Um, thank you so

much for talking about Ozzy. If you had, you had parting words for Ozzy, you got a text to him before he left, what would the text have been right before he gets on the plane? You're the last text he sends. Good Lord. Oh God, what advice. I'm sending. He's going out on the boat. He's leaving. He's going to play a fifth time. His phone's on 15%. It's going to die after he would say don't. I would say don't trust. Don't trust new school. That's probably what I would say. And that's judging from here's versus not here's versus trust new school. That's probably what I would say. And that's judging from here's versus, not here's versus Dylan, sorry.

That's judging from 40. I would just say don't trust new school. And then he's gonna, he's gonna trust someone on new school, I just know it. Certainly well. I do think I really see a, and I don't, this is, I say stuff like this and it is not because I know anything. I do see a him and D situation.

I think him and D will get in with each other. I think D really just like Joe gives old-era survivor player. I think D does as well. I think the same people are going to gravitate to each one. I think there's a case to be made that most of the new era folks give old-school Jonathan. Jonathan is a guy that was on Survivor Fiji. You know, he's just like he is that kind of guy. But I'm curious to see how it works out. But until

then tell everybody Eric where they can look for your stuff, where they can buy the memoir when the women was out. All the fun stuff. So all my art and everything is that Dabu doodles. I'll put it in the chat. D a b. Oh, there goes D a b u d o d l e s.com. And I have a subscribe list to updates about the memoir. It's not spam. I'm not going to be like today I did this. It's literally like I have a list and when pre orders are available, you'll get an email and when it's published, you'll get an email. And that's those are like the two emails I'm going to send. Love it. Listen, I can't wait to read And those are like the two emails I'm gonna send.

Love it. Listen, I can't wait to read it. This is something that I, you know, if I was never on Survivor, I would be buying this. This is very interesting to me. So I know we're at time. Why are there more Survivor books? Like there's like adjacent Survivor books.

And I know some of it has to do with the contracts and stuff, but there's like a cookbook from Keith Famey. Boston Rob has a book about lessons and Boston Rob has a cookbook. And I think Harvard is making a memoir and Stephen Fischbach is just making like a fictional book. Like I'm just, like Bachelor World, the ABC's Bachelor, there's tons of books, there's tons of memoirs.

And crap. I don't know. You go to a discount bookstore. Those bachelor books are all over the table. You see you see a hundred copies of Colton Underwood new castmate of Rob Sestrino and the Traders. I see his book all over the place. But yeah, it's interesting. It is a gap in the market.

I think it's just we're waiting for, you know, Harvey's book. A nice girls don't win comes out July 8th. I do know that. Yep. Steven's book you can preorder now escape. It comes out January 2026. So I'm excited to see those. But yeah, it's a weird, it's a weird gap. I'm waiting for like the oral history of somebody who's lived it, which yours is that thing. And I just you know, everybody it's so interesting. I mean, we all have, I say we all,

but like everybody has a different perspective on this on this situation and it's it's a 720 unique people that have this unique one of the biggest thing that's ever happened in their life you know it's a it's crazy um there aren't a lot of things in the world that are are like that um so i'm excited to see who what what comes of future books but definitely um checking out yours i can't wait for the title you You don't have the title yet. Do you know the title? I have the title. I guess can't my publisher said don't say anything yet. Oh, I can't wait to hear it. Oh, well, listen, drop comments. Guess the name of Eric's memoir in the comments. Thank you so much, everybody for joining the Survivor 50 Files. We'll be back next time with a new episode.