RHAP: We Know Survivor - Ethan Zohn Talks Survivor 50 Ep 3

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Ethan Zohn Talks Survivor 50 Ep 3 Today, Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor Africa winner Ethan Zohn for a deep-dive into the latest gameplay, old-school versus new-school dynamics, and epic moments from the new season. As returning legends face a 26-day challenge, Rob and Ethan spotlight how modern Survivor’s twists and social shifts are shaking up the way players strategize, form alliances, and handle tribal drama. From surprise tribe swaps to iconic reunions, this episode captures the unpredictable action and nostalgia of Survivor 50. Rob and Ethan explore the evolving role of athleticism and camp work in Survivor, comparing the old days of tough shelter-building and provider moves to today’s pace and “transactional” relationships. They examine tribal strategies, how connections from past seasons impact current gameplay, and highlight memorable interactions like the David vs. Goliath alliance navigating swaps and targets. Cirie and Jenna Lewis’s clash, Coach and Ozzy’s enduring rivalry, and Colby’s fresh perspective on returning to the island all get the spotlight. The duo also weigh in on whether sitting back or playing hard is the best tactic for all-stars, and discuss how honor, trust, and loyalty play into the latest alliances. – Ethan Zohn on the shifting importance of work ethic at camp and bonding over survival – Christian’s alliance choices with Mike and Angelina after the tribe swap – Joe’s struggle to connect with chaotic players like Rick Devens and finding trust with Coach and Colby – The debate on loyalty versus adaptability in modern Survivor – A hilarious look at Survivor icons aging and facing physical setbacks, humanizing legends like Colby, Ozzy, and Coach As Survivor 50 unfolds, Rob and Ethan question whether past winners can survive shifting strategies, and whether trusting the wrong ally will spell trouble at Tribal Council. Is loyalty enough, or do new-school blindsides rule the day? To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Chapters: 0:00 Ethan Returns, Survivor 50 Begins 6:14 Survivor All-Stars vs. Season 50 12:19 Pregame Alliances, Changing Dynamics 16:48 David vs. Goliath Alliance Concerns 23:12 Old School vs. New School Strategy 29:07 Legends Struggle With Aging Game 31:28 Athleticism Less Vital, Strategic Shift 32:16 Rizo, Colby Clash Over Work Ethic 38:07 Tribe Swap Timing, Survivor Loyalty 42:55 Trust versus Loyalty in Modern Survivor 49:38 Dee Alone, Winner Odds Discussed 51:27 Ethan Reacts to Iconic Survivor Photos 58:18 Ethan’s Survivor Merch, Philanthropy Push 1:01:17 Target On My Back Origin 1:04:00 Reality Run Club Launch Announcement Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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Hey, everybody. What's going on? Rob Sester Dino. back with you and we've got a good one here today because a great friend is back to talk about everything that's going on in Survivor 50 and much more. Please welcome the great winner of Survivor Africa. It's Ethan's on. Ethan, how are you? I am doing fantastic. It is nice to be back. Yes. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes. So, excited to catch up. I know you got a million things going on, including

the upcoming cycle for survival that you're working on and we'll talk more about that. I know you have a new t-shirt out just in time for Survivor 50. Wow, it looks so good on you. T-shirts and hats. I don't know if you noticed this up here, but T-shirts, hats, hoodies, tank tops, baby onesies, whatever you want. All the merch. Yes. And for Survivor 50, it's a survivor lover if you're listening to the podcast version. And so, of course, people can check that out. What's your shirt say? You're greater than 20.

Greater than 20. This is a shirt commemorating the 20th anniversary of cycle for survival, which is an organization that aims to beat rare cancers. I am a rare cancer survivor. And so this is an indoor cycling event to beat rare cancers. And all the money raised goes to fund rare cancer research at Memorial Sloan Kettering Hospital in New York City. Yeah.

And how are you raising money for that? So the way you raise money is you, the events have just completed, but you can still make a donation up until April 15th. But this is a really cool, fun indoor cycling event. It's like a spin class. But with hundreds of people, it's at Equinox gyms across the country. And so you kind of make a donation to get a bike and you can ride on that bike for one hours, two hours, three hours, four hours. And you get your friends and family and peers to donate to your bike. And then that money goes to cycle for survival.

Okay. And they've raised over $445 million since inception. So it's an incredible organization, and they're really making a difference in rare cancer research. Yeah. Well, I always commend you on the charitable work that you do and you have done since you got started over 20 years of you raising money for all sorts of good causes. So again, kudos to you, Ethan. Thank you very much. And I don't know if you remember at the end of season 40.

You know, I gave a little speech, but, you know, I'm just going to bring it back for everyone because Survivor auctions off their props to raise money for cancer research. So some of the money raised through the survivor cancer research donations on eBay, that money funded a drunk that saved my life. So it's a total full circle moment for me with Survivor and cancer and research and raising money. So anytime I have the opportunity to promote cancer research, I do. it, especially with the fan base that you have, Rob, everyone as Survivor fans. And I think they need to know that the show is not just a show, it's for saving lives. Okay. Well, then no easy way to pivot to the nonsense that we watch every week on Survivor.

But are we having fun or what? Oh, my, we're having the most fun. I'm having the most fun since the edge of extinction. Well, that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. Yeah, it wasn't hard to do anything more fun. than the EOE, also known as the end of Ethan. End of Ethan. Literally almost killed me.

Yeah. Are you disappointed that they don't have Edge of Extinction for this season? Disappointed that they didn't force these contestants to suffer a little longer than they have to, right? It's a 26-day game. At least send them to the edge where there's total torture where you can just step on the throats a little bit more

like ProP likes to do. But I would love, listen, these are the, these are legends of the game. they're coming back to play again. I would love to see them for as long as possible out there on the island in whatever capacity it may be. And the episodes are an hour and a half. We've got plenty of time to fill.

Let's see a little, let's see what happens on the edge or extinction or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, I don't love when somebody comes back from the edge of extinction right at the end of the game or Redemption Island. But I do feel like that you have these 90-minute episodes. And if anything, the issue that I had with the edge of extinction at the time was that it's cutting into,

we're seeing less of the part of the game that I care about. But I feel like if you have more time, you could service it. I mean, I feel like that the way to do it should have always been, hey, on Paramount Plus, watch the 30-minute episode of what's been going on on the edge of extinction. And I think that that would have been a good use of that. But I don't know. Too much money for that.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there wasn't much going on in the end. Can you raise some money for Paramount so that they can do that? I think they need a little money. you know, something's happening there. Spending a lot. Purchases. Yeah.

Yes. So we don't have time for the edge of extinction. All right. But, you know, I always like the idea, to be honest, if we're going there, I'm going to pitch you something here. You're an inventor. Sure.

I'm an inventor. I'm an inventor of new formats for the show Survivor as well. I don't know if you know that. But imagine if the edge of extinction was actually still in the game. So like you're voted off, but you still remain there on the island. And you can participate in reward. challenges, not immunity challenges, not tribal council, but you can still be floating around the island, even though you voted off. And you can have a say in the game because you can,

other players who are still in name can use you to manipulate, you know, help you get clues, find idols, whatever that may be, but you really don't have a necessarily major impact with a vote, but you're still there living amongst the rest of them as someone voted out. So I think, this is a little bit like, where, you know, in that Steve, Stephen Fishback, are your friend in mine, he plays the blood on the clock tower. And in the blood on the clock tower,

I don't know if you're familiar in that at all. When you're out, you're still there and you still get to talk. And I do think that on Survivor, I think it would make things feel less exciting because I think that like it gets down to there being less people. I think that that's part of like thinning the herd

and getting it down to less people. And I think that raises the stakes. And then also, I think it would really screw up the blindsides in the game. I mean, maybe it was better, better TV. But I, you were my ally and I blindsided you and you go home. Then I got to go back to camp and you're going to

ream me out. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So it might be good for TV. Yeah. So there's something there. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Work on that. Let me know how it goes. Okay. All right. But I wanted to ask you about, you've participated in a few of these big all-star seasons. And

I wanted to get a sense from you, how you feel like it's comparing to Survivor All-Stars and season 40? I think it's on par with the first All-Star and even the only other one I've been on season 40. You know, I think there's a lot of energy and excitement and build-up to this particular season and this particular cast. So like no matter what happens, I think people are looking to be disappointed. However, I think they're doing a great job. anytime anyone comes back for returning season, I think it's exciting because the game just kicks off right off the bat.

You don't necessarily need to learn as much about these players, who they are, how they act, where they're from. Backstories don't matter because you have the backstory if you're a fan. So I love how everyone just got jumped right into the game. And the drama started and you got the coach, Aussie thing. This is a drama that's been lasted for 20 years. I mean, name another season, episode. name another reality television show where the drama is maintained for that long,

maybe real housewives of something that are on for 10 years in a row. Maybe. Who knows? But I think it's excitement. Yeah. I would love to get your opinion on the players coming back and playing with each other. And so I, you know, always remember from Survivor All-Stars when you were there, you were there with Lex.

And, you know, Lex said to you, hey, this time, this is a business trip. and you know that this is I have to do what I have to do for my game nobody had ever played with anybody they ever met or knew before before Survivor All-Stars and I think that's one of the things that people never talk about with that where no show had ever really had all-stars and people like who knew each other playing a reality show and we were sort of figuring out what that was for the first time in that season how do you think it's changed do you think there's more of like an understanding now for the players in season 50 of like that everybody is sort of like, okay, well, I get it.

I have to take out people who I know in real life. I think it's incredibly complicated in the sense that, you know, early days there weren't that many of us. So, as you know, we literally hung out all the time. We were charity events together. I dated half the girls out there. You know, like we're friends with people. I babysat for people's kids, right?

So now all of a sudden you babysit. What? Whose kids did you babysit? Yeah. I mean, maybe he went out for like 10 minutes. the babysit, but like no one actually, it wasn't like I, I didn't monetize it. But, you know, I was friends with their kids. I'm out with them. I felt intimately connected to them and their family, right? Um, Jenna Lewis had kids at the time. Let's have kids at time. You know, so like all

these people, I'm around their kids hanging out, playing soccer, doing the things that you do when you're friends with people. So then when you go out there and play all of a sudden and, you know, for a million dollars, I think the personal relationships meant more back in the day. Like the opportunity to destroy a relationship or build on it was real. And people took it a little bit more personally. That's just the vibe I got back then. Yeah, I think you're right. Today, yeah.

I think that there was like a little bit of a thought of like, hey, these people that I met through Survivor, like this is my family. This is my, these are my real. Like me and you obviously are that way. But like for the people now, it's like I think a little bit more understood. like, oh, that's just like my survivor colleague. Yes. It's a little more transactional.

Like I think, I mean, and you've seen it the last 10 seasons. People enter the game knowing it's a game and they're less concerned with the, I feel like they're all friends after they get off the show, no matter what happens in the show, unless something crazy happens like a Charlie and the woman Maria. Maria, a Charlie Maria scenario. But more often than not, everyone's friends, it seems they're hugging as they get voted out. out, they're high-fiving, they love each other. It was definitely not like that back in the day.

There was no love. I didn't feel the love. And I think it was more targeted and it was more personal of a game. And I just think there's a general understanding that the players coming back, that this is business, it is transactional, this is fun, this is a game. No matter what happens, we're going to be friends after. I don't think I entered the situation like that with season eight or season 40, to be honest. And, you know, the opportunity for pregame is just a little bit more accessible these days than it was, you know, in the old school days. Yeah. In the old school, if you wanted to do a pregame, like the was really prohibitive.

Like you really had to like plan a trip to do a real old fashioned pregame way back when. Now the tools have made it very easy for people to be able to get together. Definitely. easy. I mean, everyone's accessible now. I mean, I remember back in the first All-Stars, like, I knew Lex and Tom were going, but we never had a conversation. Yeah. Never once. I knew, you know, Jenna Maraska was going. You know, I did have a conversation with her. That's the only person, I guess, I could say I pre-gamed with. But we were reading at the time, right? I don't even think I knew how to pre-game. I think it was just like, you would just like talk to people. And it's like, well, I hope they like me. I'll go to talk to them again. I'm going to call them and just like stay on the phone with them for an hour. We won't really have a plan or anything, but like they'll like me. Right. Yeah, there was no strategy.

If there was a conversation, you were floating around the issue, like, are you going or you're not? And you weren't talking strategy. You were just like, it was a friendship. Yeah, it was like, you were like pre-gaming to say like, are you going to be there? Exactly. That was it. I went to Boston Rob's house for late. He had like a big party at his house.

And it was labor. weekend of 2003 and he had like his parents went out of town and he threw like a big party and there was like 70 people at his house and we went to like a red sox game and there was there was a few different people there and like but like we never once were like hey all right this is the plan it was just like wow okay we're friends now we're like we're we're on really good terms and then it didn't mean anything actually he got annoyed where then Kathy Vavrick O'Brien her sister like her and her sister came over and Kathy Vavrick O'Brien's sister

said to Rob like hey make sure you take care of Kathy and he got annoyed he got like fancy he's like I like I can't believe what she did Rob doesn't pregame Rob is not a pregamer which I respect and like I you know I don't necessarily think pregame is a good thing It just kind of locks you into a lane And then you might get into a scenario

Where it becomes a dilemma Obviously, if you stick with the pregame Or you kind of go with your new route I think it helps in the first vote Like I would like a pregame Just knowing that I'm not going home first But after that I think it's too much of a commitment I really do

What about winners at war? Because that was like such a small group of people That there's a you know that they got Well they have to have a cast They have to have like a 20 people 18, 20 people. There's only 40 winners and Sandra won twice at that point. And so, you know, they're probably not calling like Brian Heidick. So it was like sort of like a short list of people.

You kind of knew, right? I mean, I had an idea of who was going to be out there, but I didn't pregame. I was friends with Parvety. Yeah. So that was definitely the only pregame I did. But if I looked at the cast, I wasn't necessary. I was out of the loop, you know, in a, weird way like umber i didn't talk to you know danny not so much natalie jeremy nick i didn't know any of those

laceda wendell adam klein i didn't know any of those folks i knew rob parvety tyson but i wasn't friends with robert typeson at the time yeah you know we had our little you know frenemies going on so i felt i was a little bit alone in that scenario in a good way like i didn't i contemplated trying to reach out to these people but i just didn't want to like screw myself and just lock myself into a direction. Clearly, it didn't matter. Yeah. I should have pregame.

You should have pregame more for next time. So for season 50, I was thinking about this where we had the David versus Goliath three. And we started off this game with Mike White and Christian and Angelina. They put them on all three tribes. And this was like you all with Africa. I think that might have been part of the reason why they had to have three tribes in Survivor All-Stars was that you have. Okay, Lex and Big Tom and Ethan, how do we figure this out? Oh, what if we do three tribes?

And we'll put everybody on one of the three different tribes. That was the first time. And then they didn't have three tribes again for a really long time. I mean, they had four a couple of times. But they didn't do three tribes again until season 25. And then they're like, oh, yeah, this is great. We love it now. So they put those three people from the same show on all different tribes.

But then as luck would have it, in the swap, they end up all on the same tribe together. and you had some people looking at them sideways, but they decide ultimately to work together. And I wanted to know from you. Now, I think that Mike and Angelina are pretty tight. They're never going to go their own ways. What about from Christian's perspective? Were you surprised that he wanted to stick it out

with the David versus Goliath people? Because I think that that makes them a really big target. I agree. I do think it makes them a big target. I wasn't surprised. I think Christians playing a lot of. angle. So I think it would make sense for him to agree to be part of, you know, that alliance, even though it may be a target because he had other stuff going on. I can remember with Lex Tom

and I on three separate tribes, the biggest fear was that we were going to all reach the merge, link back up and run the game again like we did in Survivor Africa. And I think that was one of the biggest, what? The biggest fear for other people. Biggest fear for other people. Yeah. Yeah. I was looking forward to that because I was had no chance in this season right I was playing from the bottom up being a winner didn't give me any advantages in season uh eight and that was everyone's biggest fear so I think they did not want us to link up again and um it was also interesting even though they had three tribes they still only stacked two winners on two of the tribes and no winners on one of the tribes well and that tribe ended up doing I think better on average than the other two tribes

Yeah, so then they were like, well, who's the closest thing to we have to a winner? Let's pick on that person. Yeah. Yeah. So. And that happened on traders too, dude. You're too smart. Listen, that you're too smart.

Too smart to like I'm so good at these shows. I'm bad. That's like he's too good. That's why he's horrible at the shows. I always say this. I have won one thing in my life. You know, I played amazing race. I lost. I lost Survivor twice. I lost Fear Factor. I lost the Eco Challenge. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. But I won Survivor Africa. And obviously that's the only thing is everything. You only have to win once. That's it. You do. You only have to be a winner. Win once to be a winner. So the thing though was with you and Lex and Tom, like you all really did run a season of Survivor. Is it fair to say that like, oh, that we can't let Mike and Angelina and Christian get back together because they're going to run. I mean, Mike and Angelina did make the final three. But, but. It's it fair to say that like, oh, we can't let Mike and Angelina did make the final three. But. But. I mean,

But it wasn't necessarily like that that was like Mike, Angelina and Christian, like, ran David versus Goliath. No. No, I think it ended up that way. And they, I'm not because they got lucky. They played a good game. They made it to the final three. But they weren't like, you know, the whole idea of Survivor, like I said, is how can you influence other people to follow along with you and get them to do your business, right? I don't necessarily see them doing that that much on their original season.

and I haven't seen that happen in this. Actually, I haven't seen much of Mike White or Angelina so far at all. They're almost kind of disappeared. So I don't really know what's going on with them and what decisions they're making or how they're leading a vote. And I think that's really an important part of Survivor. Christian's doing a good job, you know, manipulating and leading and talking.

I think he's doing a great job right now. Yeah, I'd love to get your take on some of the people that you know in terms of how they're doing. Of course, we started the season with Jenna Lewis, who came out of the gate. And I feel like that Jenna Lewis, she came out hot, but I feel like in another tribe,

maybe it would have worked better. Like, I felt like that I was disappointed that it didn't work out for her because I thought that she came in with a pretty good plan. I don't think there's anybody else from season one that you were going to throw out there that would have come in,

like, raring to go in the new are a game. I think that's a good analysis. You know, I didn't even think through what would have happened if she was on another tribe. My initial, you know, instinct was that she did. She went out too hard. She came out too fast.

She approached someone that was, like, beloved by the other tribe members, and they just were ready to get rid of her being seri at that moment. But she also mentioned that, like, listen, other people had connections from previous seasons. And it was really hard for her to break into, you know, these other kind of cohorts, I guess you could say. So I think she felt alone amongst her tribe. And, you know, having said that, she should have learned a little bit in the sense that, I guess not learn, because she did do well on All-Stars. That's not, that's a bad. But anyway, she came out hard against the winners. That was her whole strategy. Go against the winners. The ones are the best story. The guys are the biggest,

because the cachet, and I think she did that with Surrey as well. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Just thinking back to Survivor All-Stars versus this, that I do think that the players who came out hot on Survivor All-Stars ultimately fared better than the people who were sort of sitting back. And I know I was a type of person who was more sitting back and I want to see how this is all going to develop. And because of that, I think the players who were like fast-movers early on Survivor All-Stars

really were able to kind of call the shot. But I wonder if especially this season and maybe these modern day returning player seasons a little bit more. Everybody's just like, hey, I'm just going to wait back and wait for somebody else to be making a mistake. And it's like, okay, oh, look at that person. They're playing hard. They got to go. They got to go. They got to go.

They're, they're, they think they're doing the thing. All right. That's the next person. And, you know, even like we've seen it on some of these other previous returning player seasons also where like, you know, the first like Sierra Easton, the first. person to throw out a name on game changers. I think that maybe the move on these returning player seasons is a little bit to sort of just like sit back a little bit. Yeah.

And I felt that, you know, the returning season, yes. I also felt that about this show in general. I think one of the best ways to play these days is to not play in the sense that because there are so many advantages, twists, clues, idols, ways to get back in the game, that it's in your best interest to wait to someone to make a mistake to get back to what you're saying. So I do think that sitting back and watching other people fail could be a good strategy in the returning seasons because, you know, there are so many people with connections outside of the game. They're bringing into the game, how are they going to work out?

Like if you try to infiltrate that, you might fall flat in your face. And so kind of just waiting for people to screw up or to use an advantage incorrectly. I think could be a smart move. Yeah. Somebody else that we were on the beaches with in Survivor All-Stars is Colby, who's back. Colby has been more in the, hey, I'm just going to sit back a little bit and watch how this develops.

But it seems like that he's off to a good start here. What have you made of Colby's return? I mean, Colby's having a moment right now. I think he is, the one thing I've noticed is, I think he, it looks like he's having fun. You know, I feel like the previous seasons, there might have been some presumed pressure for him to perform well or to look a certain way or to act a certain way based on kind of the, just how the world treated him at that time, you know, way back in the day and, you know, Hurons versus villain. And I don't know if he came back again after that. But I just felt like he was so intense and

he was disappointed in himself or how it was going. But now I think he came back. And I feel like he kind of threw that out the window. And he's like, this is an honor. I'm lucky to be asked back again. I'm older. I have perspective. I'm just going to have fun and see what happens. So I get the feeling that he's actually enjoying his self out there for the first time since

season, Australia. Yeah. Going back to the situation. Yeah. You were on the beaches with him in back at Mogo, Mogo for at least for a little bit, right? Good man. For a couple days. And did Colby seem like he was in a sour mood when you were there?

Yeah, not a sour move, just like, it's all, it's just like, oh, why am I here? Why am I here? I should be, I should be making red eye right now. Exactly. I should be doing a Gillette commercial. But, you know, back then he was pursuing acting. You know, he was in a different mindset, you know, and I just think things are, things were different back then for him. Was he sour?

I don't know, but was he having a good time. I don't think he was having a good time. Not at all. I mean, no one was really. It wasn't. It was horrible. Not as horrible as the edge of extinction, though, but it was pretty souring the whole experience on All-Stars. So now it's just a new lease on life for Colby. I think he can come into this with zero expectations to perform at a super high level. And I think that's probably freeing for him. And you actually said that to me. I remember this

vividly. You're the only person that said it. When I did my first interview for 40, probably when I voted off, you're like, dude, you came back and you just seem free. and you're more yourself and you're more authentic and you're just being you which I appreciate thank you and it's true it was coming back on All Stars I was totally caught up Lucy Goosey

the world yeah and now it's just Lucy Lucy I'd been through a lot of shit I didn't give a F about necessarily how people responded to me I just wanted to go out there have fun play the game and see what happened yeah I think that this is a thing with a lot of the survivor players like the iconic

players who you know came in in the early days. And like I think of like Colby in particular, but I think that there's probably some others like Jerry is somebody that I could think where they sort of like they come out and they have this experience. And then there's like this that they were looking to like branch out where it was almost like, hey, I don't really want anything to do with Survivor. That's, you know,

I want to talk about these other projects that I'm working on. But then sort of like with time, there's a fondness for it where then there's like a clamoring to like come home. And it's just such an interesting life cycle of these people. And I'm sure it's not just with survivors. I'm sure that there are, you know, actors that were famous from being on a certain TV show or a movie. It's like, oh, I'm not talking about that anymore. I'm not, I'm not that person.

And then, you know, like 10, 15 years go by and then they're like on the reboot of the thing. Yeah. I think it's the same. We were child stars. Yes, child stars. Being in a re rebooted back to season 40, you know, we are. are the uh i think it's i mean it's i i'd never rejected survivor no you never did into it i've said yes to everything they wanted me to do i enjoy it i love it i love being a part of it as part of my

story so i will never not say no to survive or cbs you know it's just the way that i am but it is a full story it's a full circle arc and i i think uh i think everyone should be honored if they are even considered to be asked back on any season. On any season to be asked. So in terms of people that you know outside of the game, how many of these other old school players do you have some kind of relationship with from over the years? That are currently playing on 50.

That are playing in the season, yeah. Well, yeah, I would say everyone. You know, I have, you know, Surrey, I just did a thing called Dirty Laundry with her, so I'm friendly with Sri. Ozzy, you know, Ozzie's come to my, you know, grassroots soccer, celebrity soccer matches. Colby, obviously, Jenna Lewis, Stephanie, I've been friends with over the years. What about coach?

I'm trying to take a coach. Coach is a soccer coach. Coach is a soccer coach. You know, I don't think he's ever played soccer, but he's a soccer coach. So you could take him like one-on-one. Definitely. I think so. Maybe. Is that the thing one-on-one soccer? As long as we don't have to Did I invent something? Because then who's the goalie? Right. We can just have no goals, little small goals, one-on-one, small goals. I don't want them to cramp up. I don't want them to get injured or anything.

As long as there's no body of water around or spearfishing, I think he might do okay. But I actually like seeing maybe because I'm putting myself in their shoes. Because what would happen if I was out there at 50, I probably would be cramping and banging my head and can't hear out of my right ear and limping. But I enjoy seeing like, you know, the older folks going back trying to play again.

I think it's, it's endearing. Oh, I think it's so humanizing in terms of, you know, I mean, Colby was called Superman in a fat suit by James way back when, but even then to see people struggling where, you know, these people have come back and you see them like Ozzy, the great mythical Ozzie has come back. And now he has a back problem. And he has back issues and coaches cramping up.

And Colby can't see. And so to see. all of these other players, you know, struggling with these issues. Like I think it is like there, there is like a real, like sense of, just like,

larger than life figures who are humbled by this game. I absolutely agree. And I think that's good. I think it's important that they're humbled a little bit. We'd be excited in Survivor 80 when like Jonathan, like can't pick anything up anymore. Like, uh,

a hunched of, over. Do you think it can go? Do you think that can happen? I mean, why not? Why not? We're in 50, 60, 70, 80? I don't know.

How many years is that? Only 15. Oh, great. I'm there. I'm there. Give me a call. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I would definitely say the athleticism needed to win Survivor from like back in the day.

Yeah. The presumed athlete. it's not as important anymore in today's game. I think, you know, obviously there's so many different ways to play the game and so many different ways to get through. I think physical, you know, ability has been lessened over the years. Survival has been lessened over the years. Now I think it's definitely more of a social game and strategy game versus an athletic

and survival and physical game. And so when you get these old players coming back who were known for their athleticism, them. Jenna Lewis was fit, coach was fit, Colby was fit, you know, all these, Stephanie, you know, that was those, these were all their, Colby, Ozzy, that was their game, was all the physical and survival side of this. And now they're coming back where they don't need to lean on that, and they've got to lean in the strategy. So it's going to be interesting to see how they can make it way with this because they weren't, none of those players were known for their strategic moves in any of their seasons. Yeah. I'd love to get your opinion on. I feel like this is

something you've talked about a lot of the old school work ethic versus a new school player. And that has really come up as like a little bit of a culture clash among the new era players and the old era players where there seems to be this thought where the new school players are a little bit like, hey, it's only 26 days. I could get my tribe swapped. Why, why am I even bothering with building a house? Like, why are we even like pretending to play camp? as Rizzo said, where the old school players like, hey, we're going to be here for 39 days. We got to set up shop. We got to make sure we got to have our firewood.

We got to have everything. So do you think that that's an interesting clash? Yeah. I was, I loved it. And I was shocked. And it made perfect sense. You know, when Rizzo looked at Colby, he's like, dude, like, why are you caring? Bambo, we don't play that way anymore.

Is what he said. We don't play that way anymore. Like, wow. The game's changed. in the ways to get people to, you know, to attract people to your world, like being a provider or getting fish or building shelter, helping in challenges. I don't think it really matters anymore. Maybe a little bit the challenge part because no one wants to go to tribal council.

But even that isn't as big of important that people are okay losing a challenge because they, you know, they can go to travel council because there's a clue there they can use, right? So I do really love how it's changed in a way, in that way. But, you know, the game was designed around survival. And I think a shortened game with water given to you and food winning and clues and idols, it just changes it. I always say it's not better or worse. It's just different. And the old school, new school thing, like, you've got to adapt to the game.

I mean, there's really no other way to do it. I don't think I did a good job adapting to the season 40 game because it. It was just way too fast. But I remember, I remember Natalie and Jeremy and Ben, like, they did not want to build a shelter. And this was season 40. We were okay just sleeping on the ground with their little palm fronds. And I was like, really? Like, I'm like, okay.

I had to go with the flow. Like I wanted to build a shelter, get wood, work all day. It doesn't matter. And then at the end you're thinking risk reward, like how much energy I really want to put into this. It's not valued. People don't give a shit. if I bring them a fish or not. So you kind of just scrap it.

This could be a hot take around the work ethic, but I do think that there is a camaraderie that gets built around doing the work around camp that cannot necessarily be replicated, just vibing and just having your strategy talk about who you're going to vote out. Go back to you all in Africa. I would wager that you and Lex and Tom, like in those times when you were like going through hell together, really bonded and set the foundation for what would be a dominant alliance?

That's a good analysis. I believe that. Like a 45 minute walk to and from water, you talk. You get to know each other. You build bonds. Yeah, building a shelter together, trying to create, build fire and look for food.

Yeah, all of that. You're absolutely right. It does help build the bonds to carry you through. the game. And if everyone's just kind of sitting around not only working together on challenges, yeah, it's one less opportunity to create bonds to work with someone to get to the end of the game. So I think it's a really fair analysis. And I've always wanted to see like what would happen if we took a new school cast, a new era cast and threw them back into the old school survivor days? Like what would they do if they only had themselves? Yeah, that's it. No clues, no

idols, no swaps, nothing. Just them and what they bring to the table. And now I want to see how some of these new Arab players play. I don't know if they could hack it. I really don't know if they could spend 39 days out there with nothing to do other than connect with the other people. I also think that in the early days, there was just so much unknown about what was going on. It's like, okay, let's just try to put a roof over our heads. We're trying to figure it out. We're going day by day. The players are so smart now 26 days. Okay, I know that this is happening on this day. I know this is happening this day. We're going to merge on day 11.

So I think if I could just make it till then. And then they're going to give us rice on day 16. And so I just just get there. So everybody has like this whole plan of like how we're just going to get through it. I might not even be here by then. Who cares? But in the early days, it's like, okay, well, I don't even know, you know, if we're going to be here this whole time. But we have no other choice, but to try to build some sort of a foundation so we can feel safe.

Yeah. And maybe that's why there was. was so much emotion and it was so charged when you did get voted off and your hopes and dreams are crushed because there was a real love and trust and friendship you built with some people, not everyone. And so when they destroyed you, that was huge. I don't think that happens as much in today's game. Like I just don't see it. People becoming friends, but like really die hard friends and then kind of, you know, stabbing them in the back. I think that doesn't happen as much in today's this game. I think, you know, back, I mean, Survivor Africa was the first swap ever, right? So that was a new

innovation in the game of Survivor, if you can believe it, you know, back then. And so that was new and exciting. And we had to figure out what to do in those moments too. And I think that was exciting. And with Survivor, yeah, I mean, you never knew what was going to happen. And we had three-day cycle. So like, you know, if you remember, it was immunity, it was a immunity, reward immunity, tribal and that was kind of the format and like you said now they could predict what may or may may to happen that's actually why i like i didn't think i was going to like this rob i'm going on the record i like in the hands of the fans in the sense that some of these super fans that are currently playing may not be able to predict what's coming next they may be saying okay we're supposed to

there should be a fire challenge there's not we were going to get right so like it's a little bit more up in the air and they can't predict. So I like that aspect of it. Obviously, I think there's just too much stuff going on in general. But I do think to leave the players in a little bit more mystery and not being able to predict is a good thing. Did you vote for a tribe swap? I did not do any voting.

Oh. I'm not going to like. Did you vote? I did. Yeah. You did. Did you vote for a tribe swap? Yeah.

Yeah, we think we need tribe swap. I mean, I think, look, Heroes versus Villains had no tribe swap. But I think you kind of want to see all the players play together. Yeah, I can, I'll say yes to that. Do you think this tribe swap was too early? Yeah, I think they're all too early. Yeah. You know, whenever the swap comes, it's too early.

By the end of the game, everyone's going to have played with everyone. There's going to be another, there's got to be another tribe swap at some point, I think. And so in that case, I think there's too many tribe swaps. Okay. It's so hard to build a long game. You know, it's, you know, I don't know, like, I am a loyal player. Like I want to link up with someone and go to the end of the game together and, you know, live by that person. That's why I think I'd be a good faithful in traders, right?

Like, that is my game. It always has been. It probably always will be. So when you have no opportunity to build these long games, you know, it just adds an extra complexity to it. But I think the multiple tribe swaps, you get something going. It just confuses everything and just makes it a lot more difficult as a player. I'm glad you brought up loyalty because I wanted to ask you about this group that, linked up this week where so let me go back one week with joe and rick devons because i thought that

that was such an interesting uh meeting and another clash of styles between those two guys where joe who was so wounded coming off of survivor 48 ends up with rick who wants to play a very chaotic game and look for idols and play fast fast fast and joe wants to get looped in on things and they're like well, no, we don't want to tell you. And he was getting very frustrated about how he was being treated. Now he ends up with coach and with Colby. And there are three guys here who are like, yes, finally, people that see the game my way. Right.

So in early days, and you know this, because you broke the mold, it was all about honor, integrity, loyalty. You say it in a bad way. You say like this is a bad thing. No, I'm not, no, I'm saying it's good because when you came to the table, I feel like you didn't necessarily subscribe to that in Amazon. But I think leading up to that, like we were mad that people lied in Survivor, you know, back in the old days. It was all about like handshake deals and I'll bet on my kid's life. You know, you remember like that. Yeah. And now I thought I don't think that matters. You know, I don't think that matters.

however, to see people try to play a loyal game in a game that is completely unloyal is just asinine to me. There's going to be a moment where, like, how do you define, like, being truthful and honest and being loyal in a game like Survivor? I think it's really difficult. So I agree with Devin saying it might be difficult

to align with someone who wants to play such a structured, loyal game. And Christian said you got to work around that, I get it. I completely get how that may work. I am, I would play a loyal game, but I have no problem, like, like being shifty and lying and doing what I need to get ahead in the game, but that doesn't mean I can't be loyal to my, my, my people. Yeah. And so I think, I think there's a, there's a difference between being loyal and being honest and being, I think you can be loyal, but you don't have to be honest,

and you can still do some, some shady stuff. What I've always said about Survivor is that who whoever has like the tightest largest number and sometimes that could only be two whoever has like the two people who have each other's backs and and no they won't turn on each other if there if there's no other duo that's like that like those two people are going to run the game and so if you can find that with somebody and like build that that unbreakable bond with a couple of people that that's really all you need and maybe in a season such as this where everybody is like self-interested and nobody really has each other's back. It might just take a couple of people who really put their trust in somebody to be like, I think that honor and loyalty, like I do think that by way of, you know, coach thank Joe for it. But I think that those words sort of get taken like with a little bit of an eye roll now in Survivor, where I think that the right word is just like trust. trust, I think, is still a good word.

And if you can build that trust with a couple of people, then I think that could take you very far in a game. I agree. I think that is the game. You know, it is so important. If you can find that one person to trust, it changes everything for you. Look at Kyle and Camilla from their season, right?

Perfect example of two people who trusted each other that they could work independently of each other because they knew that, you know, in the end, they're going to kind of stick together to the end. Can Joe and Colby and whoever else is playing that type of game stick together for that long? Coach. I mean, coach is interesting, right? You know, he's coach 4.0.

He's going to play an honor game. But, you know, then again, he's not playing an honorable game by, you know, stealing stuff from Ozzy. And I don't know. He's like, I'm playing. I'm the same old coach I've always been. But I'm coach 4.0 and I'm completely different now. Yeah. just doesn't make sense. So if you're going to go in one way, I think you can't say something and do

something else on Survivor. I think you got to say it and do it. We lost Q this week. I wanted to know if you have any opinions about Q. He was entertaining, right? He was wild in his strategy, but it was exciting and he would, he would blow up the game at any moment. It seemed like you blow up the game. His interviews were fun and funny. So I gravitated towards him. I enjoyed seeing him on camera. I think it was disappointing that he got voted off as

early as he did. Yeah, he is such a juxtaposition because we saw him with Colby and we saw his work ethic. And so in a lot of ways, he's like an old school player, but then he does have this element of like a new school chaos to him also. He's not like a game, game, game

person. Agree. Yeah, no. He's, I mean, it seems like he's having fun out there he wants to meet the people he enjoys the challenges but he's not i wouldn't say he's got the strategic mind a lot of people out there these times are saying like you know they're honest and authentic like with the faults of their game and it's good to see that they know themselves they know how other people respond to them they know who they may want to align with because they have complementary strengths or uh uh alternate strengths or weaknesses so like i think it's it's interesting because people are coming in the game more informed

about themselves and informed about the other players that they may want to work with. And it could be totally crashing their face, you know. But I think there was a lot of thought and a lot of research these players put into it before they got out there. And I think that's a different scene than you would get if you were with all strangers. I talked to Q the other day and we did our exit interview. It was a delight. I love to talk to Q.

But one of things he told me that he wasn't expecting that he was annoyed with was that he said that he asked Ozzy about the thing with coach and Ozzie told him that, oh, I just did that for TV. And then he felt like Angelino was just doing things for the camera. And he said, that's weird. Why do people just do that? He says he doesn't like that when people just do things for TV. Did you encounter that at all with people that you played with either on the All-Stars or in season 40? people who were just really hamming it up for the cameras.

If my memory is correct, I don't think there is as much of that. Yeah. I feel that in the more modern seasons. I feel that I can see the players that are hamming it up for the cameras. To be honest, I thought Q at this first season was hamming out. I thought that about him too, but he hates that. Yeah. But sometimes you project and you hate the things in other people that you really hate about yourself.

Right. Listen, you cannot not notice the cameras in front of you. And obviously, if there's a camera on you, you're going to muster as much energy as you can to be happy and put forth a good story or narrate a situation like you have to. But to create a moment for the cameras like, you know, that when I see people talking, you know, for example, it's a horrible, I'm not going to go there. But when I see people like a Rupert, that was the first time I really saw someone hamming it up for the cameras or what I thought someone was hamming up for the cameras. Yeah.

And that bothered me. You know, so I like people playing the real game trying to not to avoid the cameras or not break that fourth wall. Like you even saw Mike White look at the camera the other day and like smile. Like even that bugs me a little bit, you know? Yeah.

I'm so glad you brought up Rupert because I was going to mention it to you because when I used to be back at the Ponderosa, and I spent so much time with Rudy, who told me all many, many stories about the Suboga tribe and what was going on. And he used to say to me, you know, Rupert, that guy is a real actor. He'd be sitting there and doing nothing. And then the camera would come over and he'd be like, oh, roar. I used to tell me a lot of

let me tell you about Eason on my tribe okay Rudy rest in peace Rudy but yeah I mean there are some people

I've heard through the grapevine there's a bunch of folks on season 50 who they might be kind of sleepy down depressed but then when the camera

comes around they're like hey hey I'm back you know so I mean whatever motivates you

right whatever motivates you to be the best player you can be and make the biggest moves and have a successful game out there. If it's the cameras in front of you, great. And like I said this before, previous podcast, like I think of current modern era survivor player, I think just getting on the show is the win. You know, once they're out there, it kind of doesn't matter. Yeah, I want to win a challenge. Maybe I make it to the merge. Maybe I win, but it doesn't matter because I'm here. I'm a super fan. I'm on the island. And so therefore, the desire and motivation to win and get to the

end isn't as ingrained in them. It doesn't mean as much to them because just getting cast is enough. That is the win. So, you know, whether that's true or not, that's the vibe I could get when I see some of these players play. And, you know, when they're kumbaya, all during tribal council and getting voted off, you know, you know, that, that, that, that, that is proof to me that it's kind of just, eh, this is fun. I got there. I'm a super fan. So we only have one winner left in the game. Do you think that D as the only winner left, that do you think that now that, okay, now there's not three winners, now that they're not going to link up, do you think that she has a chance now to kind of get a little bit under the radar as the only one winner, or is she in trouble

because they already got rid of two? I feel. that they got Kyle left not by choice I think Savannah I don't know if they voted off because she was a winner I think they voted her off because

you know she just didn't vibe with the group and she was unpredictable and they may not have known how she's played previous games so therefore that's why so was their choice to vote off a winner

because they're a winner I don't think so I think it was just a game move so I do think D has a chance I'm not going to say to win, but I do think she could navigate her way a little bit more through the game. I haven't seen much of her.

I haven't seen her do much in this season. We're only in episode four, but I hope to. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't think people will target her for being a winner. They might target her for being D

and winning challenges and doing what she's doing. Okay. We have a little game that we made for you to play with us here today. It's a little bit of a walkdown memory lane. And so the team went back through the internet And they found some pictures of you from over the years Yes, all of the internet

None of them are especially incriminating But Well, I'll see if we wanted to show you some of these pictures And then see if you could give us the backstory on what's going on Okay. All right. All right. So here we go.

We're going to play a game called Ethan explains pictures I found on Google Images. This is the best game ever. I love it already. Okay. All right. Let's bring up the first picture. And all right.

Here we have, if you listen to the podcast, here's Ethan and he is kissing what appears to be. Is that an American girl doll? The Bratz doll. Brat's doll. Man, well, I know it was way back in the day because there's no gray and actually have hair.

I'm wearing a Ben Sherman's shirt. I remember that. And this was in a gifting suite, I want to say in New York City before the MTV Music Awards, where back in the day, you got to go to these suites and get a giant duffel bag

and just fill it with shit, like tons of T-Mobile phones, Brats, dolls, clothing, hats, sunglasses. And what did they want you to do with it? Because there wasn't like social media. They just wanted to give it to you? So there are, you staged,

paparazzi shots back then. So they had, you remember OK magazine, Us Magazine, People Magazine, like in touch. Those were, they were in the suite. So you'd hold up this thing or you put on a hat. And then they'd take a picture of you holding the thing. They'd take a picture of you holding the things. Then maybe they would put it, get in a placed in a magazine or someone to buy it.

Yeah. Okay. So did you keep that brand style? It's actually, it's, I still, I kiss it every night. I still have it. It's a collector's item, now. Okay, all right. So, okay, good explanation of Ethan.

It's my emotionally support doll, actually. Okay, all right, what else to be fun? All right, here's Ethan, and it looks like you're running a marathon. So you see my hat, my buff right there is a survivor stand up to cancer buff. That's the partnership we made between Survivor and Stand Up to Cancer Auctionoff. That's what I was talking about early. This is the 2010 New York City. Marathon and I ran this nine months post my stem cell transplant from cancer.

Wow. So that was, I don't know if that was at the finish line or not, probably right before I passed out. Right, right. You look good. You look good here. Thank you. I look a little thin, but that was, that was immediately after cancer.

So that was a big moment for me. Yeah. Okay. All right. What's the next one? All right. Here is Ethan and he's outside of. First of all, you impress that I remember these photos?

No, this is very good. Okay, this is, okay, so you're at some sort of a do-wop? Yeah. Do-wop and bop? Yes, do-wop and bop. What I think this is, and correct me if I were wrong, two things. There used to be an amusement park. No, this is either one of three things.

It's either at Disney. No, no, it's not because it's Survivor. So I think this was, there was an amusement park that had a survivor installation or what you want to call it with rides and stuff. So they brought me there. they rebuilt the set, like kind of what's going on in the Paley Museum now and back Survivor, I guess one year leaned into it. And so that I think was at that event. Yeah.

Okay. I don't know what the do-wop. Did you sing do-wop? I'm hoping I didn't. But if I did, I want to find those videos for sure. Okay. All right. What else do we have here?

You guys dug. Okay. All right. So here's Ethan and you are in a game. How did you even get that? Oh my God. Did you guys get into my cell phone? I don't know if we, I'll have to ask Brandon after if we hacked Ethan's phone. Hack in my phone.

This was Jen Maraska and I hosted a show called Everyday Health on ABC. It was a kid's show. And this was one of the scenes. I had to learn how to do karate because I ended up breaking boards for money. So people would donate and I'd have to break a board to see how I did it to donate money to a cancer charity. broke boards? I broke boards. Yeah.

Like you see like the, you know, the karate people. Yeah. So yeah. I learned how to break a board. So one, two,

three and they built a whole line. So there's probably like 10 people. I'm like, ga, got them all. Wow. A lot of money. Yeah.

It was incredible. Can you still do any breaking boards? Let's try it. Yeah. That's the next, next episode. I'll break boards for you. You could have done that on the edge of extinction.

Chop those logs up. Logs, break logs. Logs. No, because I didn't want to have to do double the trip up there. It would have been lighter. Yeah. Okay. All right.

What's next? Okay. All right. Here is, okay, this is you with short hair. This is me. This is post cancer. Yeah. This is at the Stand Up to Cancer live broadcast in Los Angeles.

To my right was a woman of host of So You Think You Can Dance. So You Think You Could Dance. And the one on the left, I think she was on the biggest loser, the host of the biggest loser. and we had a little scene on the show. I think it was probably 2011 or 12. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Right. Post cancer. You're really bringing back the PTSD. Thanks, Brandon. Okay. What about this?

Seriously, where are you finding these? What's this one? Okay. That? So this was yesterday. This was yesterday. All my dreads are really, you know, there may and may not have been a time in my life where I enjoyed reggae music.

music and playing soccer. This was junior year of college. Yeah. And I took my big, you know, curly hair, which was down to here in college, by the way. We're in a ponytail. And I let it dread up. I let it dread up. And this was in the summer.

And I was trying to look sexy. And, yeah, look. You know, rock the old Rastafari. Did we make this, the stylistic choice on the photo? Or was this how the photo was. This was a photo cut out of it. photo. So this was a photo. There must have been someone next to me and I just wanted me, all of me all the time. Now, great thing about this is I took, I visited my friend who was on junior

year abroad in France for the spring and I shaved my head and I took each dread and I sent it to all my friends around the country from France. I got a letter and it was just my dread. I still have some dreads if anyone wants them. I'll be auctioned them up on eBay to raise money to cancer chair. It's incredible. All right. Is that the last one? Yeah, yeah, that's it. More. Oh, man. I was hoping you didn't bring up the Pito ad. I'd rather go naked than wear fur. Listen, we'll get restricted on YouTube.

We should do the only fans version of this and do those. Hey, that could be a huge hit. Survivor lover. Yeah, survivor lover, right? Okay. On only fans. And then you'll be back on the show. I will.

Yeah. Maybe your own show. Tell us about how people can get involved with the cycle for survival. Yeah, so you can go to cycle for survival.org. Like I said, all the events have been closed. However, you can still make a donation up until April 15th. However, next season, I highly encourage everyone to get involved. Find an Equinox gym close to you.

Check out the website. It's a really inspiring event. And like I said, the money they raise goes to raise money for rare cancer. You know, this past year, they had 30,000 participants, 155,000 donors, and 100% of all the donation to support rare cancer research at Memorial Coney Hospital. So appreciate it. Anything you can do is a big help. And how about the T-shirt, the Survivor-Lover shirt and merch?

Yeah, so Survivor lover, you know, I was looking for the new old school. I don't know if anyone knows, but I was the inventor of the old-school t-shirt, old-school hats. I made new school, old-school, a bunch of other survivor-themed merch. merch. And so you can still get those on my website, Ethanzon.com. But the new updated, cool, trendy, hot item is the Survivor lover. T-shirts, hats, putties, everything you want. But you know, you got to do, you got to do the Survivor Hater shirt also.

That's going to, that'll sell. You think? All right. Well, Russell will wear that one. That's it. Listen, I'm the Survivor hater. Do we have any Survivor haters, do you think? Oh, they're out there. They're out there. Yeah. Are they fans that have then started to become haters? Are they contestants that now hate it? Oh, but it can be both.

Right. Yeah. All right. Okay. I'm open to a survivor. Would you want to wear the survivor hater shirt? No, I wouldn't wear the survivor hater shirt. Okay.

I don't want to kill my image. You're my best influencer. Yes. All right. And then just a couple of quick questions for you. Okay. All right. Lehman Girls was so what do you think of the rap?

Jeff's rap. Oh, Jeff's, Jeff's rap. The only thing I could think about Jeff's, rap is that how it was incredibly awkward seeing it on TV. Imagine how awkward it was out there when there's no music. It was snapping. It's deathly quiet and just everyone's just snapping. And just imagine the most quiet.

You guys don't realize while if we're competing, there's all the, all the camera folks. And it's what you would assume would be like a loud, it's quiet. And then you got Jeff rolling off his little rap. Credit to Jeff, leaning into it. I mean, it's, uh, he's a, expanding his skill set. So we don't know what's coming next from Jeff, which I like.

But I can imagine how awkward it was out there when it was super quiet. Okay. This is from White Nick Cannon wrote to us that we don't know what the hairstyle white Nick Cannon has. As the first to use the phrase target on my back, did you expect that lexicon to take off? Is that, is that right? I feel like Jervis was wearing like a shirt that he taped a target onto it. But maybe that was on his front?

But did he use the term target? I don't know. He just implied it. Survivor Deep dive or someone put out a video on like everyone who used the word over the past 20 years. And I was number one, season three. I kind of think it should have come out earlier than season three. But I don't know.

You could be correct. But I think I feel good. Like, you know, I feel, you know, obviously first to market, right place, right time. And I didn't even know that I had coined that term. But it feels good to be a legend. of targets. All right. Ethan's on.

Anything else you want to tell people to check out? Oh, yes. Can I plug something else? Please. Well, I have aligned with Bryce and When

presents. Yes. And I will be co-hosting the Boston Survive 50 Watch Party, but we are launching something called the Reality Run Club,

which is we're going to turn fandom into philanthropy. So if you are interested in running or walking two miles with me, Wendell, Charlie, Aubrey, Jeremy in Boston on April 15th. You can go to, we'll be launching it probably in the next couple days. And you get to run with us. You get some swag.

You get a ticket into the watch party. You get a free drink. Puma sponsoring the whole thing. So if you're interested in doing that, we're trying to start something new. And these pop-up run clubs are happening all over the place. And we just want fans to be able to run with their favorite Survivor celebrities. Awesome. So check it out. Okay, where do you go for that? That will be on Bryce and When Presents. And we're launching that probably by the time you're watching this right now.

All right. Cool. All right. Well, the great Ethan's on. Thank you so much. We've got a bunch of great podcasts as well. We did the live show out in L.A., which was a lot of fun. Had a great turnout there. So check that. Thank you to Omer and Marianne, who covered for us on the takeover. and we got a podcast coming up with Paul Shear on Tuesday. So be on a lookout for that. Talking about Survivor 50. And of course, we got Club Condo coming out for the patrons. So thank you so much for joining us.

Looking forward to seeing what you have to say in the comments. Take care. Everybody, a good one. Bye.