RHAP: We Know Survivor - Evvie Jagoda Recaps Survivor 47 Ep 12

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Today, in Rob’s absence Shannon Gus welcomes Survivor 41's Evvie Jagoda on to the podcast to discuss Survivor 47 episode 12.

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and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. Oh, we're live. Yes, there's no No Dolls theme song and this is going spectacularly well. Hello, I'm not Rob.

Rob is in Houston. I'm sure having a lot of fun i don't know who he pays to get the great episodes when he's at these live events but i also benefit to get to come onto the post game show and talk about it with great guests like the person who is with me today so excited to have this person here to break down what is, I think, certifiably, I don't think anyone can disagree, best episode of the season, a spectacular episode, so much fun, so much going on. It is a great AVG go to. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me, Shannon. I'm so excited to be here. You know, if you can't be with the whole RHAP world, next best thing is to get to get to talk about it with you,annon so uh this is good this is

better i think we passed it this is gonna be i agree i mean if it was me and steven like i don't know but me and you there you go i'm glad we agree and steven will never listen to this to know about the shot five so that was really smart evie let's talk about it i don't even know where to start i feel like what like plurality vote, like heist movie with the fun music tick, but not like easy. Like it was definitely going to happen. Like so many hurdles, like impossible to pull off with like pinpoint precision. Take like, please help. Help me. So fun. I mean, truly Survivor at its best. We, there was, and both the thing that happened and the storytelling of it. Like, I feel like so, so many survivor episodes are exciting because it's just like a big surprise

that you couldn't possibly anticipate. Or like, that's some of the, the ones that, uh, the, I feel like the show has been shoving down our throats occasionally, but this is like the perfect one. There's a plan, you know, what could happen? Is it going to happen? You know what all the different pieces are. We really saw all the things like it was just so fun. And the one thing that I think sucks is that I love Caroline and I feel so sad that that's where this ended up, but I didn't want Rachel to go either. And so, you know, uh, yeah. So that, that to me is the mark in the episode, but also if you're going to be an amazing player and a super fan, you will. Oh, I think I'm not hearing you or you are muted. Somehow I muted myself. I was just so sad about Caroline. Can you hear me now?

Yes, but I think you're on your other mic. OK, maybe you talk for a sec. OK, well, you were saying about it being devastating. And I agree. But Caroline, Rachel and Genevieve as the three options was so incredibly painful there's been a lot of content around like every tribe but like they're designated like nerdy smart girl and there were all the options this week and like it was killing me so that was devastating but it's a great jumping off point to talk about the move because speaking of that i had some deja vu remembering when one of my favorite players and people went home in a big end game move with,

I think it was a three to two with an extra vote. And it was a final six, but a plurality structure by one of my other favorite people and players. And that is Marianne taking out Omar. And last yesterday I was talking to Omar and we were like, Andy needs to do a three, two, two. It is so perfect. it would be so fun it gives him the credit because he's drawing dead from a goat perspective but I said last week in

the podcast that Andy was incentivized to flip and I just didn't think that he would I thought his perception of himself was that he was running things I didn't realize that that was a narration that was a threat he was setting himself up to do something cool and he knew his perception that he needed to do something so the fact that he knew to do that I'm so so impressed by it I feel I don't think he's going to win how it went for Marianne and we can talk it through but I feel like this was the Marianne move that he needed to make where he had no chance of winning before he was such a goat and now there is a pathway where he can win and have something to talk to and I just want to give him all the flowers because I thought that was incredible. Okay. Yes. I really, first of all, do I sound

good to you? You sound amazing. I'm the plurality power was just dropping bombs. That was the fault. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Okay. I, uh, I'm very conflicted about this. I have to say, I think, okay, good. I want to bring you across yes so this is good yes okay so first of all i mean i i think i will start by saying kudos to andy for clearly being the mastermind of an amazing play on survivor like we all saw he was like here's the plan let's do it he had the necessary pieces of information he really like he really we saw that he mastermind that i think definitely we can also I'm sure talk about I think Sam and Genevieve also did amazing jobs with their their roles, but definitely he, the bad perception. Right. And, and, and I, what I worry for Andy, I, I, it's like, it's not like I know what he could, what other thing he should do besides what, like, this was, this was the thing to try to do right. Is do a big move. However, I feel like, especially

we all just like, we saw the tribal council, Genevieve and Sam did amazing jobs of like clearly acting and then being really happy after the whole jury saw that the whole jury knows that it should have been Sam or Genevieve knows that they are the big threats. Also, you have to give like, like there is some literal on paper, big credit for Sam. He won the reward. He obviously brought the right to people. Yeah. I mean, you know mean you know in making the plan happen and so i do feel i mean if if the world is that andy makes this move and gets to the end without sam or genevieve i think hanging this on his hat amazing but i do think he's still

very likely drawing dead with either of them there, even though he for sure just saved Sam in the game. But I do what, what I worry is that this just is more feathers for the other people. And you already saw like Sierra doesn't like Andy because he flipped on her. And now he's like, he flipped again. Like, I just, I just think he's in such a hard position. Like I, again, I think from an audience perspective, watching the game, it's like we just can give Andy a ton of flowers. He really just did that.

We saw it. I just I don't know what the other option is necessarily for him. But I'm like, if he could, he clearly has had a lot of rank in the five person underdog thing. Like, I think Rachel was the biggest threat there. But he is like saying logical stuff. I'm like, is there a way he could have not flipped and somehow being, been like the king of that group? Maybe not because he didn't really have anything

to offer them, but I'm just not sure. I was like, now they all hate him. You know what I mean? Like potentially, like, I'm not sure, you know, like Teenie, you think Teenie is gonna help for Andy if they were, if they're on the jury, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. You know, I think that Andy needs to sit next to Teenie. So, yeah, I mean, I think that this move needs to be paired with Rachel, with Genevieve and Sam.

And now Rachel, unfortunately, going in the next three rounds. It only works for me if you are taking out definitely Sam and Genevieve. You're sitting next to Teenie, Sue and what would have in an optimal world been Caroline. Like you take them out and I know people are worried about the vote block. He's in a minority. I'm not sticking with this group, you know? And that's one of the things that makes the move so great for me is that he has a buffer of two bigger threats who should go over him.

And that's why he shouldn't be targeted next. So having that and then them all reverting to like, we still need to take out Genevieve and Sam before the end is one of the best parts of the move for me. Now I am really worried about his perception. You're seeing them on the jury. He flipped again at the end of the day. I think this is the most he can do.

If his perception is too hard to come back from, that's a previous problem. Like that's not the problem here, you know? And, and Marianne, I think had some respect and she spoke so well when Tori went home and she had,

you know, maybe she had put some people off off but she had the likability and she was able she had the idol she raised it into a winning game um but the jury will spin on likability whatever they want to if they want to say which i think parts of the narrative we're trying to say at points that like genevieve puppeteered this they're going to say it if they want to say he's flaky and he flips and it's not strategic and it's personal and all of the stuff they're going to say that and then that's a perception problem that even one of the better moves i think we've ever seen and such a cool move um couldn't get him out of but i don't think there's anything else he could do and i think if he doesn't do this

to go ahead to six and lose a genevieve or a sam he's lost all his opportunities he's either getting to the end as a GOAT, getting zero votes, the worst fate, you know, which someone like Ben Dreebergen quit to avoid that fate. You know, zero votes, awful. And they might not even let him get there. You know, we've seen Caroline say in Confessional that she might want to take out Andy

and go to the end with the women. So to leave it all in their hands would be, I think, terrible. To go to the end with no story. He was drawing dead. And now is he going to win? I still think it's very, very hard. I think it's so unfortunate for him that Rachel won immunity. Great for my draft. Really unfortunate for him that Rachel won immunity. He's up against like these other trinkets. He needs to get rid of three threats in front of him in two voting rounds and then a challenge in fire where you have very little control. So I think that's really, really hard. Like Mary Anto got over and had one threat to get out in one round. Like it's very, very difficult to get to that point. But I think if he gets to that point with now Tini and Sue. There's a pathway there. Yeah. a jury less that i don't know and even if he doesn't get

all the threats out i'd rather sit with a sam and talk about all i did here that i masterminded that i came up with it that i did the most difficult part sam agrees in this episode the most difficult part was getting the split to happen and putting himself on the right side of the split that was key to this whole plan so i still rather do that and sit there. Is it a hundred percent win? Is it a win? No. Is it a probable win?

No. Was it zero last week and a pathway exists now? Yes. And it was cool. And I loved it. And I have no bad words to say about it. Okay. I mean,

you, yeah, you really, you, you did, you're making really good points. You're making really good points. And also like,

also obviously we saw that the, the four remaining people at the camp were like, OK, Andy's five now in the group. So, yeah, I mean, so you're you're there was no choice. Yeah, I think I guess I guess I think I'm stuck on how to evaluate when I feel like he still probably cannot win. still probably cannot win. However, I think you are making a very good point that I feel like I thought, I wasn't sure if he, who would win in the Sue, Teenie, Andy final three.

And I honestly thought maybe Teenie. And now I think that flipped in this episode. And I think both Andy bumped himself up and Teenie way, unfortunately, dropped himself down. I agree with that. So yeah. So I think, yeah.

Okay. You convinced me. You convinced me. I'm into it. I'm into it. I mean, I always was into it as it's was objectively bad-ass and cool. I think also just to just also the other point is like Sam and Genevieve are extremely influential. Presumably if they end up on the jury, you know, everyone thought of them as the big threats in the game. They were there.

They know what an amazing, like how Andy really like, uh jury you know everyone thought of them as big threats in the game they were there they know what an amazing like how andy really like uh you know brought this together and so uh if if they are on the jury i think that will really bump his stock up quite a lot so all right all right you totally sold me 100 in 100 on the move okay great i love us noting out about it to all of the people who are my people understanding this i was like oh it's so cool and it's like a plurality three two two vote where you you know take the numbers over a split and get like it's so finicky i'm like are the casuals understanding that he needs to be on the primary of the split and not the second and how finicky this is and i want to talk about it from the what i'm calling the what was it operation italy the operation it'sta 3 is the workshop name that I'm doing for the group I don't think survived through next week.

Itta 3 is what is Genevieve, Sam and Andy. Andy. The Itta 3. Operation Itta 3. Yeah, I think I like it. And I want to talk about them. And they all had their roles, which we will talk about. But before we do, I need to ask what basically is Survivor podcasting, which is like, who messed this up?

What is the issue here? Because to be fair, let's talk about it. Yeah. Three people beat four people that have four things. Immunity, two idols and a vote block. It should have gone a lot better than it did. And it didn't. So there were a lot of conversations around.

Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. No, I just, you know, should they have used the vote block? Should they have used an idol? Should they have not not split the vote should they have split it four to one should they split three to two but with andy on the other side there's a lot of where do we put the blame that's my question okay i think i think we should maybe rank who rank the faults because i think there's definitely i do love to rank some faults you like to rank some faults i love doing

it from my ranking i do love a ranking and I love to like criticize people. Yeah. I mean, first of all, first of all, we should just always just say, and this is to be clear, this is full hindsight is 2020. I am sure I would have fallen for this. True. But I get to be podcasting and not playing right now. So obviously I would have noticed. We're not even outside. It's great. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

Brilliant. If someone is really insistent about a vote split, that should be a red flag. Like, like that just, we've seen, that is the classic way that people flip and mess it up. So if someone is really out there on the vote split, and I do think that's, that's also credit to Andy for like, I think the way he communicated in it was very similar to the way that he had been communicating previously. Like he, you know, he, last time we saw him really being like, you know, Genevieve and the percentages and blah, blah, blah. And like,

I think he really like, uh, you know, embodied that same version of him when he was describing the boats vote slit, which made it, um, more possible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do. And that's, what's going to be difficult for me to rank who's most at fault. I mean, I think we could probably start at Teenie, but, but I do, I know. And I love Teenie so much, but for me, we didn't actually see the conversations of how Andy casually got himself into the primary of the split boat. And that is the key to me.

That is the blame because at first I started I'm like that's unknowable like that's really hard and then I thought about it and I thought I think I'm getting a little bit more critical of this because firstly I'm calling it the Andy principle all future survivor players say it from the beginning of the game it's not personal if you are the one leading the split if you are the most insistent of the split you're on you're the second of the split it's not personal it's not that I don't trust you i don't trust that as an action that could have an agenda and i think that that's so important but even beyond that let's look at andy let's look at the rap sheet of someone who might be a bad person to like put your entire game on

from a numerical perspective when you don't need to and it actually shouldn't matter that's why people try and make the split permutation so casual we'll do it gender we'll do it you know alphabetical whatever because it shouldn't matter but like obviously it can matter a lot and people don't want to offend people so i think just be like the person who's the most insistent will always be on the second of the split but beyond that andy andy is someone who on the mat on day two said he would throw his number one under the bus that's probably where i start with andy secondly he has motive last week i said that the five are incentivized to march through to the end because i thought pathways for teeny caroline and rachel and i said sue and andy are not incentivized because they will go to the end as goats and they won't get any votes but i i underestimated that i thought andy wouldn't know to do that but

he did have the motive. He and Sue of anyone to flip on this group right now had the motive. Thirdly, he's on the reward. So he's in the place. And even worse than that, they're back from the reward saying, I think they're trying to flip Andy. And then they're like, well, they probably won't. But if they do, he needs another number. So to let it go to that point where he has the motive the character from from the mat we know you know someone who is is there with them that you're worried about I'm getting more and more critical that anyone else could have been on the primary if you're Carolina you hear your name which I want to talk about you know you can trust Sue you know like

Teenie's definitely not working with them that would be more than an Oscar worthy performance so Rachel had been the target. They're all good options except Andy. And I don't know how this happened. And I think it's so impressive. I think it's the most impressive part of the move, but that's where I lay the blame for me. Yep. Yep.

Okay. So, right. So Andy crushed that and the, the, they should have. Okay. We can talk about Teenie. Let's come back to Teenie. I feel like Caroline is in. I feel like, OK, Caroline and Rachel, let's take them for a sec. I feel this is, again, a completely unknowable. I feel that if Rachel had not won immunity and it had been her, she might have the spidey senses would have been higher. And this plan might not have happened.

been higher and this plan and this plan might not have happened like i do think there was enough feel like there was a general like it's a little too quiet which rachel like rachel has been someone who's been blindsided in this game before and i think that really has served her as the game got went forward that she's able to deduce these things she was the one that was like let's just put one like she kind of knew but obviously she was safe and she didn't fight it. And I and Caroline, unfortunately, I think is a was a little too flexible. She was like last week we saw also she really preferred Jennifer needs to go, but she wanted to do what Sue wanted. You know, Andy comes in hot with let's do the vote split. I think Caroline is a really nice, awesome person and probably was extremely focused

on the good vibes in the group and kind of was like, okay, Andy, sure. Well, great plan, Andy. Yeah. And then Sue was like, Caroline, if it's, if it's you, I'm going to play my idol for you. And Caroline's like calming herself is being calm, you know? And I think sometimes, sometimes we are critical of the hyper paranoid player, you know? And I think sometimes, sometimes we are critical of the hyper paranoid player, but at the end of the day, survivor is a game where you need to be hyper paranoid. And unfortunately she did know that this was a potential risk.

They thought the only thing that could happen is that, you know, Jenna Beavis plays the idol. Then I'm sure Sue would have played the idol on her. But, you know, I think if it's me and my ally is offering to play the idol on me, I would hope that I would be like, yeah, let's do that. I'm freaked out.

You know, like, even though it's hard because that would be, you know, if the vote split had gone on as it was supposed to from their perspective and Sue burns the idol, we would all be like, that was so stupid of them. They should have just trusted in their plan. So Survivor's a really hard game.

But I do think, you know, a little too nice, a little too nice, Caroline. Yeah. I mean, look, playing the idols,

as you said, it would be on a bounce back. That's a lot to give when you have a five to two majority, it should be okay. I can't blame that. And then, yeah, I mean,

Rachel's looking at it from like a four, one split in case they have Sam. I think that's a little bit not not risky I mean it's I mean I guess it is a small split it's not the same as loading up which was another plan that she had because maybe Sam isn't with Genevieve but you would think if she has an idol and they've been working together he would capitalize on that on a two-person split I'm loading up it makes sense because they can split and if Genevieve knows that like she's going to protect herself or she will

go home. That's the beauty of the split. So you would think that it makes sense, but it also just makes sense to split. If anything, just voting for Sam, the one issue is like, maybe Genevieve gets so ballsy and doesn't play this fictitious idol that

she gets to keep it. So the split is perfect and definitely flushing the idol. And she goes home either way that the idol quote unquote, it's out of the game. And Sam goes, the split just makes sense i understand what rachel's saying but i don't think you need to do a five zero or a four one the three two is the optimal split i really feel confident in saying that but not with andy on the three so so rachel's trying to change something and she's reading that maybe people just you know maybe people just didn't want to

offend andy when he says it right in the game yeah that's what my that's what made my biggest thing oh by the way i listened to you last week i don't think that those people didn't go on the boat because they were being polite i think they didn't want to put a threat and they were just saying i went i went on two journeys and that's why just so you know i don't think anyone was actually being that's that is true but also i mean for carl that's crazy and carl's out of the game. So this is criticizing him. But for everyone and for everyone else, they had a 5-3 majority. They could have afforded to lose their vote.

I noticed what that was. Well, I went back and watched that I'd missed. It said it gave them a bag of rocks. Usually it's like just someone get on the boat. But this time was like, if you can't decide, pick rocks. Like it couldn't have been easier to pick rocks. And they still didn't. And they sent Carl home who didn't even care to put rocks and they still didn't and they sent kyle

home who didn't even care to put his hand in a bag and they kept genevieve and now genevieve did this and i want to discuss that the genevieve versus kyle of it all okay so you think so you think rachel by being protected isn't as much to blame caroline well i i guess i just mean yeah so i think i think probably well i think she's a, no, I actually think she might. Okay. Let's, okay. Let's say them all out and then we'll do the ranking. Okay. So we've, so, well, I guess my point is I think that Rachel was a little bit onto it and that the main point I want to say is I think if she had been on the line, that level of fear would have potentially sparked something,

something happening. Caroline should be more hyper vigilant as having more to lose. Yeah. Potentially. And has Caroline really been blindsided in that way? I mean, I don't, I can't recall. No, but no. Yeah. I really think having, and I, Nick talked about this last week. I do think like suffering in the game and knowing that the plan could go wrong is useful. Like if like if you survive that yeah yeah what'd you say yeah they were scared though right but not scared but like scared with the the

optimism not scared with the oh shit it can actually happen to you and uh i think you need some of that a little bit more of that oh shit this could actually happen to you uh caroline was missing that gear a tiny bit but we're not even asking them to expend an idol on the bounce back sure but like then that would i think maybe you speak for itself well at that point you've split so maybe you don't you probably don't play the idol at that point you have a different decision around did the split work and honestly there is actually no point i'm thinking it through now of playing an idol because if someone flips you're out oh no and you need the idol so it should the

idol sorry now i'm thinking the idol play that like sue's idol play on caroline should never be based on a bounce back because either you split in which case it's you've achieved your purpose or um i guess in which case you need it without genevieve playing an idol right unless i guess genevieve played the idol for sam and they put the dominant votes on Sam and then you play that. But then Genevieve goes home. Uh, who, like whoever, like, yeah, you're right. You're right.

You're right. So it's just, it's just a question of who flipped. And that question becomes put the people you trust the most on the primary. You're only trying to be technically two and then maybe three people like you can do it. Right. Which, by the way, also, just to say not not sure why Sam told them that they were going to play out. Oh, I do. I actually thought often this happens in my notes where I'm like, that was crazy. And I come in angry. And then I'm like, to be fair, who else was he going to say? Can't say Rachel. Sue over Caroline is not believable as the pair.

Makes sense. And Tini has a different role. Tini's a conduit. Why not just say I'm voting for Genevieve and she's voting for me? Because then the idol's not scary. That makes it splittable. Like now you don't need, like now you're like, okay, well, it's fine. Because we can load up on Sam. I see, I see, I see.

So you need to have that. So actually I'm okay with that i still don't back the reward choice choices which we can talk about yeah but okay so for me personally i'm like a tie on everyone because i think who i didn't see the conversation about how he became the primary and that to me is massive but not teeny yeah um yeah and for teeny let's talk about it because i tweeted it was a similar kind of scene to me. People have compared Genevieve to poverty. It was a poverty Amanda scene in the woods. Definitely. Heroes versus villains merge. Yeah. Because because and I'll go back to another kind of heroes versus villains vote.

What Genevieve is doing doesn't make sense if she has an idol. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, because because if Genevieve actually has an idol that she wants to use, if they can't split the vote, then it becomes, hey, team, I have an idol. And Hayley Leak once did this. Scissors, paper, rock. Me or Sam are playing it. Do one of you want to go to the scissors, paper, rock? Or do you want to switch and crack?

And we can decide who goes home and you won't come down to the idol. And that benefits all of us. But considering they can split, Genevieve with an idol should hope they load up on her and that she can bounce it back the worst case scenario is telling them giving them an information advantage so that they can split the vote flush your idol and send out your shield so someone wouldn't do that i feel like teeny's emotions were used against them because they so wanted it to be true because they wanted to be able to do what the others wanted which was vote for genevieve and have the idol go and Sam still go and worse Teenie sat on that to kind of not rope the boat that they so badly clearly wanted and now have to individually

wear because they didn't even give the chance for anyone else to say that doesn't make logical sense it would have made more sense for Genevieve to do Rupert's rock in the pocket like right oh no I have an idol but I don't want you to think I have an idol but oh did you see that I have an idol you know trying to make it look like you don't want them to know because God forbid, you know that I'm going to use this and idolize one of you. Yeah. That's bad for me. That actually would make no sense.

So Teenie was reading what Genevieve, if Genevieve had an idol, she would never do what she did to trap Teenie here. Yeah. Well, I think, well, I want to start by saying that I fucking love teeny and I'm obsessed with there being another gender queer person on the show. And I just love everything about them as a human. And I just really want to say that off the bat. And yeah, that just was so bad. It's just like, also, also it's like, um, I, well, I feel like teeny teeny is a very likable

person and, and has not adapted to to that people are going to lie to you in survivor and i think that like like you know like and and that and that people are not going to constantly give them a million chances like why would sam but like like sam and genevieve like you you had a terrible conversation with genevieve and why would Genevieve is not going to tell you if Teenie had in that conversation played along and pretended that they were with Genevieve, then maybe you can a little bit believe that dynamic a little bit more, but given all the signals that Teenie is sending of, I hate the bottom people and I'm mad at them and they're mean. And why would they tell you the plan? Also, I didn't even notice this when I first, teeny is sending of I hate the bottom people and I'm mad at them and they're mean and why would they tell you the plan also I didn't

even notice this when I first in first place was Sam still there when Genevieve was like yeah load up the votes on me at the beginning yeah because that also makes absolutely no sense because the consequence of that presumably would be Sam going home and

why would Genevieve Sam was a martyr in this fake plan sam even like genevieve play it what he's asking her in their in their life like genevieve play it i'll go home like he was a martyr through and through in the life which makes no sense at all and yeah that is true that so sam is there when genevieve literally says oh great, great. Play it on me. Yes. And then that'll be fine. Yeah. Then that would just be a split. There's no Andy to solve the issue in this timeline. Right. That ain't great. Yeah. Totally absurd. I think Sam was there. I'd have to fact check the episode without 20 minutes ago.

I just wish Teenie had told one person because I do feel like that would have raised the alarm. Yeah. It's like how you think like, wow, so we had made it through. Like someone would have been like to the heroes. Like this doesn't make sense. Like who was the person who would have said to Teenie? Like they want you to think that look how happy you are. They're giving the information that you want. You want. Yeah. But that's that is not right. So that's really bad for Teen and i am getting concerned because as you said andy stock rises teeny stock falls i think if he sits next to andy and sue teeny could still win from a likability perspective on the jury and i will hate to have to be not upset about that because i love teeny but from a game perspective i mean

you can't compare teeny is getting to the point now where Tini's had so many losses like every time they get a foothold it's yeah you know power at Lavo Asia vote into Kishan going it's coming back to kind of having powers these Lavo swings to Seoul going and obviously coming through as the underdogs to now Tini is getting into that Jake Owen spot and compared to Andy I want to say about Andy of all the six people left in the game, Andy has been, I guess other than the John vote, which obviously did not go to plan, the way that, you know, that whole round was a wash. But other than that, Andy has been meaningfully in the majority, in like an important way of every vote.

You cannot say that for anyone else in the game. There have been pile on votes, so the stats don't necessarily look like that, but look at Genevieve, who's been fighting for her life after clearly the sole boot was a misstep. Sam has been left out multiple times. Tini, as I've explained. Sue, with

Gabe. Who else is there? And Rachel. Rachel's still going to win, but Rachel has been left out. You know, the Sierra vote here, obviously Sue as well. So it's, it's not, it's not a game that she can speak to. It is a game about relationships, Sierra, soul, people on the jury who really like teeny and that's currently where they stand. I think. Yeah. I, I, yeah, I have to, unfortunately, again,

as a person that really likes teeny, I, I even wonder if the likability is going down from the behavior in this round. I mean, like, like not just like the, the, I mean, they were obviously super upset about the reward. That's one thing, but the tribal council, like they were at peak. I'm in the majority and what I want to happen is going to happen. They did say pecking order. Pecking order.

And then to be that arrogant. And it also didn't happen. Not good. It's really bad. He's very young. He's the youngest person on this cast. Yeah. Maybe we see some of that, some of that emotionality.

And I have to ask, what did Sam do to Tini? Like what, like, I'm just like thinking through, because like Genevieve's soul, that speaks for itself. And like there's still clearly some feelings. And Keyshawn. Okay. The Genevieve thing, that's fair. I get that. But Sam, they merge together. They vote out Rome. They're actually, they actually are in a group together. And then Teenie's campaigning for Sam to go and then blindside Sam and

Sierra goes home. Then they're both out on the soul vote. Then they come together to do the Gabe vote. Then Teenie flips again, votes out Kyle, putting Sam on the back foot. Sam who last week was like, Teenie, please. And Teenie's like, no. Like Sam is only, to what I've seen in my limited view, like been like reliant on Teenie and blindsided by Teenie and like then didn't take them on the reward here,

which I do think was stupid, which we can talk about, but I like where, like where's this coming from with that? Like it doesn't feel earned. Yeah. I mean, I obviously don't know the full extent of other encounters, but I think, you know, as you all were saying, there's, there's biases, everyone's bringing into the game. And I think if teeny even said it, like having like captain America guy around pisses them off. And I, you know, I certainly can relate to that to some degree.

And, you know, I think it's an emotional game. And they're, you know, the emotions are high. And if you are predisposed maybe to, you know, who knows? Why does Sue hate Kyle so much? I criticized that. Like I thought that was, you know, and I think there hate kyle so much you know i criticized that like i thought that that was you know and i put there was probably more of the dynamic like there's all these dynamics at the end of the day they're living together 24 7 and that's most of it but from what we've seen it does feel like sam every week tries with teeny often fails and now like teeny's just so out on

beyond genevieve like really wanted sam like emotionally so i Sam beyond Genevieve, like really wanted Sam, like emotionally. So I think before Genevieve, I think that that is really, really tough. I do want to say like, this is what I love about vote splits. Like we have not solved them and we never will. There are people who say never split, always split. We've seen people doomed on either side of the aisle here. And I even think they should have split and they just split it wrong, you know, and it's so hard and it's so circumstantial.

I sat here in this exact seat one year ago with oma at the final seven of 45 on the post game show talking about how emily went in a seven to one vote and how do you not all split yeah and that again is just on read and reading what people are going to do and reacting to it um and here i just think they put it on the wrong side but i find it really thrilling And exhilarating that someone Could take advantage of that because Yeah that's brutal It's so fun I mean it's the best game but it's Brutal it is indeed brutal

It is indeed brutal I've got so many questions but you go Okay this is Somewhat of a side point so you can tell Okay for the I still am not over. Okay. So I said this to you before we started.

I watched a lot of this season very recently. I wasn't caught up. I'm also very not into, not aware so much of what most of the conversation has been. Although I watched, I listened to some of the last week stuff. People have been saying that Kyle's wins had an asterisk. People were saying that,

but that was a lot of the conversation was around. Because, because one of them, okay. I look, it's in the pot. I saying that, but that was a lot of the conversation was around. Because one of them, okay. I'm just saying that that's a lot of the conversation. People are too polite with the journeys has been a big one. People, these have been broad conversations. Okay. Yeah. What

is the deal with Genevieve's pre-merge edit? Like, did we ever, the thing that I'm like why did we like especially that we keep returning to Keyshawn like how many times like like you know what I mean take a drink every time Keyshawn is mentioned like he's a main character still did we ever had possibly more content after he left than before right Right? Yeah. Did we ever see a literal conversation between Genevieve and Rome, which is also like part of her core motivation of why she like took out Saul is because he took out Rome.

I feel like I cannot picture those two people talking to each other. Rome and Genevieve. There was a brief, like we definitely heard that they liked each other in the first. We heard that they liked each other, but did we ever see, did we see a single conversation? I don't know.

It just weirds me out. And I hate when stuff like that happens because it makes me think that there's no way that Genevieve can win. On the other hand, Erica won season 41. So these, I mean, that should be not the rule. Like if I'm going by that, like if Genevieve wins, it is already such an insulting edit. If anything,

I think they should bring Genevieve back onto other seasons to narrate the pre-tribal segment. Cause she does and it's always great so from a character perspective it makes no sense for the person she's been in the game it's crazy if she won it could only be that they were trying to bury her sparkliness obvious but it wasn't even like a the person she's been compared to like kim spradlin like all the way dominant win like she's gonna face some struggles so there's no excuse for it anyway especially if she wins and it rules her out of winner contention for me and now i'm annoyed because in the last couple of weeks i was like well at least she's like probably on the way out the door but now i'm like okay

there's some runway like she if sam goes next she's making it to the final five right you know what maybe you're not final five edit the person who but it's making it to the final five. Right. You know what? Final five edit, the person who, but it's not even now the beginning of the finale. I don't know if they knew that. But now it's like the first part of the two-part finale. But yeah, to me, it rules her out of winning contention. And I think now there's runway in the game. I do think that she and Sam should be in trouble,

but for me, her edit rules are out. And it's, it's just, it's not justifiable. Yeah. But who knows? The edits are, Gabe, LaRon, Erica won. There are surprise winners in this. Let's leave it open. I'm never, ever surprised by the winner.

Don't ever look up people on Twitter. I'm never wrong either. Oh yeah, totally, totally. No, I actually am wrong. And people on Twitter today, and also on Blue Sky, also on Blue Sky. Wow, people on Blue Sky were telling me I was wrong. I was like, have we already got in there? This was an oasis for one full week. So it's a new year. You know what that means? Setting big

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app and start saving and investing for your future today. This has been a paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentives to positively promote Acorns. Tier one compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash robpod. Transat presents a couple trying to beat the winter blues. We could try hot yoga. Too sweaty.

We could go skating. Too icy. We could book a vacation. Like somewhere hot with pools and a spa and endless snacks yes yes yes with savings of up to 40 percent on transat south packages it's easy to say so long to winter visit transat.com or contact your marlin travel professional for details conditions apply air trans. Air Transat. Travel moves us. I want to talk about it because last week I did say, you know, the new, the modern game, even before the new era,

new era is somewhat, not broken, but just more homogenous that a five can come together and, well, four usually, but Rachel had an idol and she was at the top and run it down from like eight, maybe nine at that point um and all be somewhat incentivized to that i said andy and sue weren't but i didn't think that they would flip on it um and there's you know to go to a final two is like a beautiful delicate difficult game where people will still be grappling with it at the final four of who they you know who even gets to the final three to have like a better shot of winning the challenge.

And that's why we've had two on ones in global survivor. Um, and it's like really, really tricky. And you always have to think through kind of those options of like, who will you sit next to, but who will take you in this like key final three challenge. I still believe that it is more homogenous, but I do want to like make a call for me because I was like, the game is, the game's like not flawed, but like it is homogenous, i do want to like make a culpa for me because i was like the game is the game's like not flawed but like it is homogenous which i stand by but i did the annoying thing because i've seen it happen before where people are like well it's just gonna be a steamroll and then it's not and like i'm sure the players were like just wait and i'm gonna put my hand up for that and i

underestimated andy like i think a lot of people have because i just didn't think he would take that incentive to whip as I really thought he should exactly in a three, two, two, exactly individually, perfectly like this. And I didn't think he would or could, and it was hard and impressive, but I should have maybe, I should have known that Andy had better awareness than that. So I, I didn't think that he would, he would take that incentive. Yeah. Listen, I mean, I hear what you're saying. I think, I mean,

obviously this cast, uh, just proved you a little bit. I mean, I think obviously there's always going to be the it's in some sense, I guess what you're saying is that it shifts it up because like in, in some sense it's always, what is the group? And am I in the, in the top of the group? And am I in the right group that, you know, am I in the right spot in the group that the group can get to the end is always the thing. And you're saying it's like pretty much five is basically the magic number.

It could be up to five. It could be up to five. And what is usually two. I think in this particular season, I mean, I mean, I think it's, again, I think it's a great cast. I think something that I've been feeling throughout this whole season is that it's,

even though we're talking about like the underdogs and not. I think it's been a pretty even season, like even the people that we think it is like Rachel. She was amazing. She also got blindsided by Sam. Like, I feel like there's been a lot of people playing really well. And as I'm sure has been talked about, pretty, like very, this is the thing to do. But they voted out a lot of the wildcard characters in this season. Whereas I feel like in Survivor 46, the wildcard people made it really far in the game,

which still produced a somewhat homogenous style of threats, threats, threats. But like, I don't know. I'm just like interested in, I'm like Andy's Andy, Andy's journey is by far the most interesting and he proved it again tonight. He really flipped the whole game.

I'm just like interested in thinking about the version of the season where like TK and Rome and Tiana are like here and like does, it's a totally different thing. Like these particular group of people are all kind of, are largely acting similarly. You know what I mean I mean well a couple of things on that yeah I mean like

firstly the beauty of survival will always be that it is a game that most of the time requires people to get you through but only one of you can win like the conflict of that is why it will always be the best game I just think that this structure gives a few more outs yeah like okay well none of the three of us know who would win if it wasn't as clear from a GOAT perspective, you know, which can never happen in, like, a Final Two because three people can't even get to the end, as an example. Right.

But I will say that when they're really, like, when this cast is fully AI optimized, which at this point they are, they know even that perception. And it's so hard to know when you're, like, drawing dead. I mean, good on Andy for even being able to to recognize that which is really difficult to do i think in the game and i think marianne was good about like knowing her perception and knowing when she had to really put herself out there to have the jury credit her and i think that that you know there's been a lot of negative things not by me but people have said in the last week no super fans you know

because they're doing the optimal thing and that makes it boring but this is the other side of that i said you know make it able to be optimal with players who play optimally but also make that optimality if that's a word difficult um and i i thought that it's fun to watch fans do that and this is the other side of the coin of people's complaints which is well they're gonna find the move and well they do the exciting thing and think of the three two two but even then against it it's like but should we split that way and like they're all thinking of ways to counter it and they all were having like you know well while they screwed it up on the side of the split they all were having these like intelligent thoughts about it i think we see that at its best but definitely of the cast that's left you know everyone has had gaps as i said you know

except andy who's been the most kind of in the numbers in a real way um andy though is andy like in some ways it was easier to play that way in many ways because the perception is it's fine i can beat you so i want to play right so they all have things that they have to right to speak to um and that's one because it makes it maybe not from an edit perspective from a game perspective it makes it really even yeah i feel like that's the part i the part part I want. I mean, I like you, like we've been saying, I think Andy is, he did, he did the best thing he could possibly do. You, you totally convinced me of that. I think I do.

I'm still not a hundred percent sure his perception is he's as a, like, I don't know. I don't know what he's thinking in his brain, but I think stuff he did, he had a whole flashback and he was like, I thought, I know, but I know, but it's all, I don't know. I don't know what he's thinking in his brain, but I think stuff. He did actually, he had a whole flashback and he was like, I thought it was a good idea. I know, but it's all, I think in his mind, it's very like the beginning was really bad, but now I'm really good. And like stuff like not getting any money

for the auction one, cause he was probably like kind of panicking and couldn't find the thing. Like, I think that is still there you know like I don't think people want to lose to Andy but I do I agree that the Sue Teenie

vote like I mean it would be it would be it'll be such a crazy journey if Andy wins that's by far the most interesting from a game perspective from a game perspective people like Teenie more or whatever I want to credit That's by far the most interesting outcome. From a game perspective. From a game perspective. Oh, yeah, certainly. People like Petey more or whatever.

I want to credit the difficult road that older women have, which they never will, ensue. Fine. But from a game perspective, Andy would be far and away. Andy has been doing little things well this whole time, you know, like bringing in the right relationships. I was just always really worried about the perception, which played out to be correct.

But then he knew that and he flipped it. i think that's so um cool and good but let's talk about the other two in operation in a three it's really working um yeah i mean sam let's talk about sam first sam i was not high on these reward choices can we start with that what do you think i mean results oriented no not results or you can't this was unforeseeable that andy would come and say i'm doing a three two two okay but i actually okay i actually i i thought about it also before knowing the outcome and i i i think there's like some decent merit like i'd say probably the thing that is the most like what's the biggest critique is bringing genevieve because I'll say I would be really fucking

afraid to leave Genevieve back at camp with the majority that would scare me so much to like like we know what Genevieve can do especially if it's like gonna like I don't know I just that to me I'm like if Genevieve was alone with them I I don't know what, like, I think Sam probably is going home. Like, you know, like, like, and so I actually think, I don't think this is why he did it necessarily, but I think actually he needed to keep Genevieve with him. Yeah. That's interesting because the threats have been in this, like, I mean, we've seen the relationship between Sam and Genevieve a little bit before as well, but the threats in the last couple of weeks since last week have been in this like unholy alliance of like we work for each other like clearly they're rooting for each other like if one of us goes you take it but also

they are each other's main competitor it's really upsetting like even car last week you know like he like i was like well you know it's upsetting if like genevieve goes on the journey and now you're like the prime option but also best case scenario she gets something and you work it together like there was always that duality and i feel like sam has to wear that where but like then like but then it works on all angles where you've brought genevieve for the reason he said to kind of like refuel her with like love and pasta and like she's now your main challenge competitor like i've thought about that um and then you know but then leaving her back with you know to search for idols and possibly have influence is concerning but then also she's like your main ally so like she can also keep an eye on it so yeah I think I think all that stuff might cancel

each other out but the thing that tips it over for me is like surely you want to bring across like Andy and then like maybe Teenie to try like let's get out Sue and Caroline or maybe Sue to try and get out like a Rachel. Like, I just think on the pool power, like Genevieve will be your your main threat and your main ally. And you have to wear all of those things in taking her or not. But to pull someone across Genevieve is a wasted space. Yeah, I hear that. OK, here's some here's some some more some continuing defense defense of it. Love it. Okay.

Like, if you have two people that are your tribe, if you bring Andy and Teenie, now they are, like, checking each other. You know what I mean? And, like, accountable to each other. Like, they both have to want to flip. Or the other one's going to call each other out. You don't get the momentum of, like, the thing. Teenie, I think Teenie

would have been the worst person to pick because they've been so clear that they don't want to flip. Maybe Caroline... But Teenie was emotionally reacting. But Teenie was like that earlier in the day with conversations with Genevieve. Teenie previously was like,

no, I will not. If Teenie was acting the way that we saw Teenie acting Consistently Then I feel like there was not a lot of hope Of bringing them Nothing is impossible But having them as the watchful eye I really do think having that

I think we saw We've seen this before where it's like You know You isolated the one person and now they're in like this their own thing like i actually think there was a lot of merit of like this is a group for you know what i mean but i think caroline maybe maybe you can caroline would have maybe been into it but again it's like which if you have the two people one of them needs to first be interested in the flip and that's a much bigger risk to say with another person from the

underdogs there you know but counterpoint who was andy ever bringing over and how but could sam ever foresee a three two two like if it's if it sounds even remote idea like if he pulls over andy and then suggests the 3-2-2 it's phenomenal obviously but andy comes to him i to me unprompted and i don't even think due to being there like i think what what it gave them was time i think andy wants to do this anyway i don't think andy was like he said he had the the decision when he thought about it this morning like before the letters i don't think that he was he didn't have the narrative that Andy was like, he said he had the decision, well, he thought about it this morning, like before the letters. I don't think that he was, he didn't have the narrative that he was like moved to do this or because Sam took him or anything.

It's nice for the relationship, but it doesn't matter. Not to an AI optimized player like Andy, who was like, I will throw John Lovett under the bus on day two. So it's not about the relationship. It gave them time for a plan Sam could never possibly foresee. And I do think who he took, results oriented, I don't think that that mattered because I think Andy was doing this anyway,

possibly with less time, in more rushed conversations and without a cool name. But I do think this is what Andy is trying to do. So I don't think it's based on what Sam did. And I think it worked out for him. Yeah, I think Sam could not have foreseen the full scope of what happened. But I think that Sam had an instinct that Andy was the most flippable,

which he was correct. And he's obviously said on the mat about John Lovett. Like, do you think that I think because he's working with everything, he's worked with Andy. He's known Andy the whole game. Yeah. He's known Andy the whole game.

He knows that Andy is a, is a gamer, is a flippable person. Like, I think he, he picked the right person. I mean, and I think he knew that I think he had, and he has a longstanding relationship with questions on Andy first.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. Yeah. And, and then I think, I mean, you saw, I think the first thing that happened when Andy started talking was like, it's going to be impossible to flip someone else. And Sam was like, really? Damn. I think that Sam was probably hoping that Andy would have the intel of how to flip one of the other people. And I think that's a very legit plan, you know, and you've convinced me now on something. This is fun. Okay. Yeah. I think that Sam's best case

scenario was like, we get Andy, we get Andy to flip someone. And instead Andy had a better plan, which was really cool. Um, but, uh, I. But I actually I have to give Sam major props. I mean, he was definitely going to go home and he did win the reward that brought the group that ultimately resulted in saving him. And I think I think, you know, like he didn't know every piece of that puzzle, but I think he really had the right instincts. Yeah, fair enough. It was it was kind of like that meme that's like like take Andy on the reward, question mark, question mark profit. Totally. Totally. But sometimes that's all you have, you know, it's like, that seems like the right person. I really was a hundred percent correct. You did do very well on that. But I do really think I'm having trouble picturing what the combination of two other people is, you know what I mean?

Maybe like you bring Sue and Caroline and then you're like, let's be a three to get like, yeah. Or something. You know what I mean? Like it, any other, yeah.

I think that's a really good point because I think that I often think about it. And there's probably a blind spot for me where I'm thinking this person, this person maximize your opportunities, but it's like, you actually might minimize what that person can do based on the environment that you've put them in. Right. Exactly. That's very good point.

This is like safe villain lair territory. Now you can act out your evil instincts. You know what I mean? Like I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I think this will change the way I view picking people for rewards. Cause I think that I don't think about that enough, but then, and then, so, so Sam's power is in picking Andy and being and his being a theater kid which we love yes um as the theater kid love it yes um and the acting was great and I think he did really well being like the person on the bottom who's like willing to do whatever but like would prefer like

could we do something cool? But like, okay, if not, I'll just go with you. I think he did really well with that. As I said, I understand why he told Caroline her own name, which seemed crazy in the moment, but also is justifiable. And so I have a couple of questions on this. Yeah. I also just want to say that is, I just want to emphasize how good that is like to be active when you know, and I experienced this when Liana was trying to vote me out and we did the knowledge is power thing. When you know that someone is like lying to your face or like be NBA and, and you're still pretending the thing that is hard.

Survivor is like emotional and intense. And you know that these people are planning on voting you're out and they're like, don't worry, we're voting Genevieve. And you know, that's a lie. And you just have to be there and like, thank you, Rachel. Yeah. Okay. You're voting Gene're out. And they're like, don't worry, we're voting Genevieve. And you know, that's a lie. And you just have to be there. And like, thank you, Rachel. Yeah. Okay. You're voting Genevieve. Okay. I believe you, Rachel. Like again, kudos. Yeah. Something ironically, Andy did, I think to Rachel and Annika, like, thank you for saving me. Like giving me, well, what was the name that they have Sam,

but actually we're voting you out. Yes. Here's my, I've got so many questions. I've got so many thoughts about this episode. I'm so infuriated by Survivor. My first thing is, who made the choice for Genevieve to be the idol holder, right?

Like either Sam or Genevieve could have the idol. Actually, Sam gave his fake idol to Genevieve and there are risks and reward with that. Like the risk is that Genevieve took on, kind of poverty style on the risk that she took on at the merge. The risk that it actually flipped her into being the primary target if this doesn't work out if they can't get Andy on the primary or like the three votes were going to be on Genevieve

so that was risky for her but now she gets the reward and we'll talk about it if she can and I again I think that Andy is going to flip on them and they can say like the idol was fake, but if she can, she is trying to be like, I think I'll be good anyway. I, um, you know, I, I kept my idol, which actually makes sense from a story perspective. If Andy doesn't write them out big, if, but I guess the thing is like, Oh, I try to get teeny across with the idol didn't work. And then I try to get Andy across and it did work. And now like, I didn't think I needed to use my idol. I was ballsy. I put my trust in Andy. I was right. And I have an idol, but then also the story is Andy flipped to empower me with an idol.

And that probably would have been actually a bad move. I mean, maybe even not because again, what is Andy doing through to, through to go to six? Maybe at that point he's like, well, I guess next time we'll split and take out Sam and then take out Genevieve at five if we actually flush this idol so maybe you can you can you know show that incentive there but i do think that the story makes sense and genevieve will try to play it and now she owns it because she was the idol holder in the plan yeah i do i do feel like that secret is probably not gonna last but i i think, I think Andy's flipping tomorrow. So, yeah, but okay. But it's like, I, this is the other, this is the other risk for Andy. It's just like, he, it's not,

not in the same way where it's like now, Oh, now Andy's number one threat, but now Andy is completely untrustworthy to everyone in the game. I mean, how do you, I mean, the second day, the second day. Yeah, but the second day, the second day. And tell the whole cast that he would throw his best friend under the bus. Yeah, but people didn't see that as scary. They felt sad for it. Well, not that they should have.

Well, yeah, actually, you know what? It seemed like a cry for help, but it was a threat. That's what happened. But people didn't, yeah, people were like, not like afraid. I mean, you saw still later, Rachel and Annika got tricked by Andy, you know, and like, and, you know, I like afraid. I mean, you saw us still later, Rachel and, and Anika got tricked by Andy, you know, and like, and you know, I'm just, I just, he burned those people bad. And like, when you are at the victim of like a whole scheme, like, like, it's just like, why are those people wanting to trust the next thing he says? Like, I, I, I do, I'm not nervous that they're going to

try to necessarily take him out from that perspective but i you know there's gonna be big consequences to the why should they trust him because he's an ai optimized survivor robot and it's optimal for all of them to have a line interest to take out genevieve and sam now and then rachel hopefully at four or in some order that three needs to go in the next two voting rounds and fire and right now he was incentivized and optimized to turn and then now he's incentivized to turn back you can actually take that to the bank because that is his incentive but it's like but i guess it's also i mean that that's uh yeah that's assuming like if you're rachel are you so confident that everyone thinks genevieve is definitely so

much higher up than you like like i mean i guess she doesn't know that she was almost the plan, but now she's won two immunities. I'm like that, that relies on being very confident in the, the, the, you know, there's right. Does Rachel become, you know, can, can Rachel join the threat? Rachel's right. Rachel's now been burned, but been tricked by Andy two times. And I feel great.

I do not believe that she will get tricked by Andy three times. So, well that's not great I do not believe that she will get tricked by Andy three times so I well that's that's a really well it's not even about being tricked I don't think it's about being tricked by Andy like I think that Rachel can like have faith that Andy will take out Genevieve and Sam next that gets Rachel to the final four like that's the final four the final four without Caroline where Andy isn't fifth which he was possibly going to be and now I just I want to just be back in the group now that it's a smaller group where I'm making it to fire and I have something on my resume like I took a brief little vacation got what I needed out of this and now I actually want to come back and I'm incentivized to and that four I will say it now that four would be incentivized to run it down okay at that time

I'll say it not Sue actually Sue should still make a move yeah but that's for so I mean I don't know from a relationship standpoint if it's what you want to do but I think it's what you what you should do um and I think you know I think Genevieve and Sam their threat level has always been a little bit higher than Rachel and they have now this win over her so they have to be the primary targets for everyone else at this point except Sue who has nothing to lose so like maybe next week she does like a three, two, one, who knows, you know? Yeah. Yeah. She can do it.

Maybe that's what you want. I wonder if Andy will think that because he just saved those guys, he has power. Like he's Rachel's more of a threat to him than them. I don't really know. Yeah. I think that would be a bad. They're all a threat to him,

but I still think that I would rather take out like a genevieve i i mean i think this this is the thing i have trouble with is i do feel like it raised all three of their stock and we already know that andy will lose to those two and like i still feel like he's gonna lose those but i do think you're really right he really he really did raise raise his stock relative to the others yeah and then i mean i still think rachel compared to my rachel have cool stuff i think that the stock was so low that you still should take out rachel even though as we're saying that's trickster a couple of times now the way that the narrative was telling it a little bit and i don't know if you got this and i'd love to get your opinion yeah was that genevieve was kind of the puppeteer a little bit um in that it was i think we kind of had it connected to her

emotionality story with her like reconnecting with andy the relationship like is andy doing it now because genevieve is being social again and like they've reconnected that friendship is andy doing it because we've seen genevieve call him out as a goat and now he needs to make a move and knows to do that whereas i think like andy ai optimized is doing this anyway and i think if that's one of the reasons he knew he was a goat, like it's valid, you know, whatever way he was reading it, I think is exceptional. So I don't put the impetus of the move. I think Genevieve did great stuff, but I don't put that on her,

but like, how did you read the edit of that and what you actually. Yeah. I mean, I definitely edit aside. I did think that Genevieve did a really good job in that conversation with Andy. I do think they both did. And listen, I, Andy is a optimal game player, but I also still definitely think he's a person. And I think, I think she needed to mend that fence emotionally in order. Like, I actually do think that was important.

Like we saw how pissed he was last week at her for saying that. And like that, I think that really was a good move from her. Yeah. I just, not just the whole thing. for saying that. And like that, I think that really was a good move from her. Um, yeah, I, just, uh, not just the whole thing. I think, especially as she said, she was like, you know, that was shitty of me. And also like, I hope we can still be friends. He's she, he's, she said specifically friends. And I was like, I, I, the way she said it, I thought was really well done of like, I'm saying this outside the game. Like, I just want to make sure we're okay outside the game, but obviously it was to be good inside the game and we love that that's survivor we love that um edit wise okay i don't know again i don't i i mean i think this the the edit was quite clear it was andy like

this is andy's scheme i so i didn't really but it was andy's scheme so much like you can't tell it any other way and i thought even within that there was a little bit of just connecting it a little bit to him. Him doing what other people want, which doesn't make sense to me because it's so optimal for him that you can't say he's being manipulated. And he's, I think, coming to it through his own realizations that are all valid and good. But I think you could spin that web as Andy doesn't want to do as well.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think that Genevieve, I don't think Genevieve has massive respect for Andy still. Like I think the way she, I definitely picked up on the way she was, I feel like sometimes saying Operation Italy. Like I think there was a little like maybe potentially poking fun at some of it. I don't know. I didn't really get that. I do in general, I feel like a major theme that the editors are giving us is people who are emotional versus people that are not emotional. And they were like, you know, Genevieve did the non-emotional, uh, cut off

her feelings versus we have teeny who's like being very emotional. Um, we, we seen it like literally that's been like many times, like Kyle talked about that and it feels like a lot. And I'm like, where does that story end is there someone that is is it that it ends in like rachel's final tribal speeches i was emotions and strategy or something like is there someone that's going to bring it people love that is that hot and good yeah right is it that is it that you know yeah teeny and yeah i don't know i'm like but i feel like the conclusion of the story will relate to this theme of emotions versus not but i don't know the community as well what that is yeah yeah those are probably i want to vomit and die every time someone says community on the show it

is not a community it is a game where you're trying to vote each other out yeah and genevieve she knows how to get it she's like they will not purple me again okay i'm getting airtime by saying what they want about communities the only thing that is allowed about the community is if they're trying to replace the extremely appropriative word tribe with community that's the only thing i part of me was like are they trying to soft launch that and that's yeah it goes really well when they when they change that i mean everyone really likes it people love it when they change yeah yeah okay um we have a couple of questions. What do you think about that? You have any, you have any, you think.

I mean, I do think that that's the kind of thing that they would love to show. Cause it's like, you know, it's just like broad brush kind of ways you see the world, you know, do you type with a U or a U? So I do think that that is possible. And I, I mean, I think we've seen it play out like i think we see it play out all the time i think that genevieve space jammed herself last week well not they space jammed her by taking away all her like people and strategic options

and she's a people person but she as well was holding herself back and i think we get that story now like that's that's almost already been satisfied in the fact that he reconnects and is back on top at least for a little or at least that's this huge win. And Teenie, I think we see, I think we saw Teenie's emotionality doom them a little bit today. And I think we've, I mean, even if it's just Teenie's losing game,

I think that that story will play out. I will say as well with Teenie, I've said it before, Chekhov's Women's Alliance, if it's mentioned in the first act, a woman will go home in the third act. They don't make the rules. And at this point, Teenie specifically trying to make a woman's life valiantly.

And, you know, like I respect it, but it's dooming the women. It is cursing the women to go home. So we need to watch out for that. Listen, the YASA Women's Alliance, we took out two men before we turned on each other. So, okay. Yeah, exactly. And then small time, that's a lot of men. That's almost all the men. we took out two men before we turned on each other so okay yeah exactly and then small time that's a lot of men

because that's almost all the men so that is true but did you but did the edit show you say women's alliance at the beginning of the episode at the beginning of that episode because that's what it is yeah yeah yeah well it showed me talking about like that I don't want to go with the men because I want to get

credit at the end and then later that episode we want to go with the men because I want to get credit at the end. And then later that I think that's enough. I think you need to say I want to go with the women. Yeah, I didn't say I probably didn't say the phrase Women's Alliance. That's like it's like a Beetlejuice. It's like it summons a woman going home like that. It's been said so many times by Teenie, though, specifically at this point as well. I have I've just got so many thoughts about it.

Should we should we? OK, so this is a question because I like to go back and look at what I said last week and figure out for myself. this point as well i have i've just i've got so many thoughts about it should we should we okay for this is a question because i like to go back and look at what i said last week and figure out for myself was i wrong um you know because i can be wrong and clearly i was not you shannon yeah sometimes i can okay i'm only mildly spoiled no um so carl versus jen right i want to talk about it even though carl has already gone home because last week I was very high on like take out Carl what can Genevieve do now that she's been space jammed whereas Carl will always have the opportunity to win a challenge you know there's always gonna be a challenge so then Genevieve pulled off stuff that like you know Carl couldn't do this like

can you imagine project into three but it's Carl instead of Genevieve like I don't think that he could he might even be like, and I really like Carl, but he might be a little bit of a liability to the point it was a difficult plan to pull off. We knew he wasn't strategically savvy compared to Genevieve, who is Genevieve. Do I look back and that was wrong? Was I wrong on that?

I mean, I always thought that was wrong. Like, I mean, just to me, the scarier person On Survivor is the strategic Strategically savvy one And that just is always the scarier thing We also were extremely Far away from the number Of immunity wins needed But I mean I don't even like

Yeah For the four It was the same group of underdogs I watched these all really close, and now it's blending. It was the same exact group of people. The five group with Andy, yeah. The five.

It was just physical versus... For me, obviously, you know... I mean, Kyle could win immunity here. And then if they think... But no, but actually, it would have been fine if Kyle... I was actually wondering if Sam... If Sam was not trying to win that lot, if Sam wins immunity, it screws up the plan. Let's talk about it. If they win immunity,

it screws up the whole plan because they can't split the vote. I want to, I want to talk about that because it's not hilarious. I know if I'm Sam, cause he, he was the first one, I think at the paddle, he was right there. He wasn't, they weren't throwing it. No, they definitely weren throwing it no they definitely went through i mean yeah you have you have to that's such a risk when you know you're that like it's a such a finesse plan but yeah that really would have screwed the whole man well i mean i'm not advocating that they should have thrown the challenge no i know i was just like this but i do think it's interesting though because yeah if they

threw the if they throw the challenge the whole operation is completely gone but at the point where the operation was like so tenuous and i also think they anyway get turned on like they're just trying to get through tonight to next round anyway if i'm can take safety i'm taking it like maybe i sacrifice a possible shield and the fact that then like sam is just straight shot out of the game then if you're genevieve or vice versa yeah but i'm willing to take that risk just to be safe because the plan was so tenuous. I also think that if you have this plan with an idol and one of you is immune, maybe you use it to like crack the majority, you know, then at that point it's like, it's not about splitting. It's about, Oh,

like you can't split the vote. So I'm, we can crack you and maybe that could actually work better. And at that point you've won to protect immunity from Rachel winning it. And you can take out Rachel, who I think was like the optimal person. Oh, so you're saying you're saying it's like Sam wins immunity and then they just go full. And then Jen has an idol. Yeah. And now that's possible you could crack it back.

And I think Rachel, Rachel's the best target over Caroline. I don't think she's a shield enough over Genevieve and Sam anyway. And she has the vote clock, which I think is really important. And I think she tightens up this end game for Andy in a way that Caroline didn't. So I think, yeah, you want to win the challenge. But it is funny that this specific lad wouldn't have worked had one of them actually won the challenge. It would have been a funny way to scupper that. Yep. I mean, I think like I was just trying to think of like, OK, who was the Kyle vote worst for?

And it's like, I mean, obviously, Caroline. And and I think what you said last week was really right. I mean, Sue hating Kyle was very bad for all of the Tuku players. And like in the world where that's not the case. It went three in a row now. Right. In the world where that's not the case, like you would imagine that Kyle would be like potentially least likely to vote out Caroline and Sue, like, like, you know, like there's a world, their natural allies are probably still going to be the starting tribes. And like, I do feel like, I wonder if the, to me, the biggest mistake, and I don't even know if this is, is,

is a mistake that can be changed is like, once you declare these are the threats and we are the underdogs, do you therefore guarantee that those three people will beat every single one of you in the end? Because you've declared that they are not, you know, I think it's definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy because it becomes, it was like a Ben Drieberg. It was like, right. You tried so hard to get him out. And if you like, the fact that you failed at that shows a success on their part and a failing on yours. Now, again, as I said at the top of the podcast, with people's feelings about

you, they can switch that any which way. You know, I didn't you know, oh, they weren't a big enough threat if they want to. But I think there was already so much runway for the lions, the threats of Kyle and Sam and Genevieve that they would lean into that and it would only kind of affirm what the jury think. I do think that. Right, right, which is fair. I mean, yeah, I think Sam is a good example, though. I feel like Sam's stock rose dramatically by being declared a threat.

From my perspective as a viewer, maybe that was already so obvious to everybody on the island, but he really hadn't done so much. But now I'm like, how impressive is Sam? Like, you know, like, you know, yeah. Yeah. There's it. There was. Yeah. Well now, and now this is obviously the best thing that Sam, I think, I mean, I think the Anika stuff was good. I think he was good in the pre-emerge and like has lost a lot of agency.

I thought actually that he, I still backed what he did, even at the Gabe boot, even though it went so sour, I put that more on perception and positioning. And now, even though I think he's going to that more on perception and positioning and now even though i think he's going to be the threat again next week i still see this as a win that's what it is it's just wins to buffer one shield at a time take out that round now you made it one round further and then hopefully he gets through um for him you know through to the end of the game so i mean i still think i i think that kyle actually was the move and i'll stand by it over genevieve um i

don't think i could have foreseen this happening, but I don't put it on the fact that like Genevieve was here to make it happen. Like they, they had so much power. They were still a five. They thought five to two majority. And this is the thing that everyone who thought it should have been Genevieve was saying is that Genevieve is more likely to be able to make something happen than Kyle. And we just said, you just said that Kyle in this spot would not have been able to make it happen.

He could never. I would love to see it. I want to live in that reality of him making the fake idol and having to do it. It is not Kyle's speed or game. And he would tell you, I'm sure, the same. My question is... Kyle could have done the walk around, the Sam part. Kyle could have done the walk around and be like, it's probably me.

You know? Yeah, maybe. And Sam could have done the idol, maybe. I think these roles were the best roles, but you can see. I think that this was optimized. How many times have I said optimized tonight? But my thing is as well, is like, true, we gave them the best possible team

to screw over this group of four women. True, true. But also they could have just put Andy on the second and none of this would have happened. Like to me, the issues are in the defences, like the holes in the defences, rather than how we even got to the point where they were in that group. Because I think they just should have protected it better. And I mean, another thing as well on the vote block, because we haven't even really discussed the vote block. Andy's like, don't use the vote block, use it next time. I'm just struggling to see like how the vote block is that helpful next time and what they think is happening

like they're leaving in at that point sam or genevieve if she plays the idol so okay one of them wins immunity and then like your three of like teeny and like you know rachel and andy at that point where they're having a conversation take out out honestly what Caroline or like if one of them has another idol at that point, then they're protected and they don't choose on the bounce back and your three choose. It feels small to me. Maybe I'm missing why the vote block was so important next week. It feels like they could have just used it because I just don't see

why we really need it next week in their configuration of what they think is a five to one majority. But my main criticism is, again, where Andy was on the split. I thought there should be more than enough, but I also think they could have used the vote block. So I just don't get that. Yes. Well, I suppose I mean, I think Rachel needs the vote block next week for herself. Like, I think she's the most at risk in,

or like, wait, it can, it go, you can only use it at six, right? And Rachel has an idol, which she can play at five. So Rachel only needs to get through this one more vote. If I'm Rachel, I'm keeping it. She's the biggest threat of, and she was immune that week, you know? Right, true, true.

But like, what is she using the vote block for next week? Like, I mean, have her allies flipped on her because of that case, like the vote blocks isn't enough or have just a couple of allies flipped, which I guess can happen. Look at that. And he just flipped. But like, you're going to need numbers anyway next week. And you're hoping that your numbers see you through with one minority member still in the game. Well, okay. Well now we know the truth and she really does need it. Right. I mean, like now that it's a final six, but it's a three, three, now it's extreme.

Well, I think Andy is flipping, but yeah, it could be helpful. Yeah. Which honestly, yeah. So, you know, just to say, but then, uh, okay. So in the, so you're saying in the scenario that Rachel is imagining that happens, which is that, uh, say Genevieve or Sam, Sam goes, Sam goes, and now it's five, one. So then presumably, right. So I guess it's like, yeah, it's presumably everybody votes for Sam. What if Sam means immunity? Now we're like battling out among the what's the power split within the five. I think canceling out someone's vote is solid. Like I think, I think that's a little, it's not a slam dunk situation

because you do always have the immunity and Sam and especially, you know, has performed pretty well in the challenges. Actually, Genevieve too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have questions about it. I think it's fine. If I'm Rachel and I'm wearing the necklace and I know I only have to get through one more vote after this, I'm keeping the one thing. Like, I think that makes sense, you know, for her. It doesn't make sense for Angie to say we need the one thing. Like, I think that makes sense for her. It doesn't make sense for Andy to say we need it next week. Again, these are, these are red flags. I also think that people were probably like, oh, that doesn't really make that much sense, but it's Andy. It's okay. But you have, cause they're underestimating Andy instead of thinking,

no, Andy's actually really smart about all these things. And that wouldn't, he wouldn't say something like that. That doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, let's take some questions from the listeners okay billiam asked is this more of the best if this is more of the best move of the new era or most exciting move of the new era now having to work this out an hour after we've seen the episode is a lot and i don't think i'm putting my chips on anything but like you know sight unseen how do you feel about it? It's a really good move. It's a really good move. I don't know. I feel nervous to say best move

without knowing what ultimately happens. You know what I mean? That's not how analysis works. You go to where, whatever you say, people will remind you about it. Well, I would say, I mean, I think it was a really good move. It's not like so, so, so crazy. It's like pretend we have an idol and someone flipped on a vote slip.

Like I really liked it, but I don't know. To me, I don't know. Shannon, what do you think? I will give an answer, but I just need to think more. I think it is to me, and this is not really answering the question, but we're getting a little bit of a Mount Rushmore of cool new era plurality moves. Was the Cody move in the final six plurality? I think it was.

There was a lot going on in that. I love Survivor 43. Well, you should. final was was the Cody move in the final six plurality I think it was there was a lot going on in that survivor 43 well you but I was gonna say is that a better one I feel like that's the one that people that I mean the Jesse the Jesse move is it's and the Marianne move those have always been the two for me because I feel like Tika was more like the the body of work um D was probably be up there with like what she was doing um like in the final seven um so possibly but i think that also was like a little bit of the body of work of like her work into like seven and then six and then how i felt that set her up for five um so yeah i mean like marianne's move like catapults her into the win and if that's the metric like i don't think they will do that

for andy but i think andy's also has a lower base than where Marianne was coming from. And it's a different situation. So it's hard to compare. Like Marianne had the opportunity with an extra vote to do it around later, which gave her, you know, like a shorter kind of game to the end, which was easier to control, fewer threats to take out. And also like, you know, easy, I guess, to get to the end. Well, I think Andy like should be fine on that.

But like you want to do it, like the closer guess, to get to the end. Well, I think Andy, like, should be fine on that. But, like, you want to do it, like, the closer you can do it to the end, the better. And I think the thing as well with Andy is that Andy doesn't get his primary target because she wins immunity. Does that make the move worse? Like, I don't think it makes it worse. I'm glad he still did it. I think he absolutely still needs to do it,

even if it makes the move not as good. I would much prefer for him that he got to take out Rachel, but I would have been very upset had he backed out of it because Caroline wasn't the perfect target. Cause I still think it took him from zero to something, even with the additional hurdle. So it seems kind of unfair to take parts, like,

you know, some points away because they couldn't get out Rachel. But I think that they all made me feel a similar way in the conversation with like all of those moves. I think. I feel like when a Tiff, Evie and Xander beat The Knowledge Was Power, that was a pretty cool move.

That was really exciting. 41 was so long ago, though. It was really exciting for me. So maybe people will go watch that. But it's all of these like late game moves. It's all of the same like 7-6 kind of vibe. And plurality votes are involved. I think that that's what it was

It was a really good move It was a really good move I'd say Something about it Because it was so logical It didn't have quite the unpredictability-ness For me That it didn't

It wasn't like George And the Villains Tribal Council Where you can't even see it coming. You know what I'm saying? Like, like that to me is the thing that makes the move a move catapult. To me, this was like a really,

really good move, but I don't know. I might just be jaded. Cause you know, it's just never, I don't know, you know, whatever.

Well, to be fair, the thing that it had against it, wasn't that it was unpredictable, but it was that there were so many hurdles. Like it shouldn't have worked. The floor had so many things. Like the one where Rachel wins immunity,

they're talking about idols. It required this, like the split, like even the block of vote. Like if any one of those things comes off, this does, as Genevieve pointed out, like this does not work. I think the other was excited I think the other thing I don't know do we want to hear me like say things that are not cool about it I mean

overall it was really cool I think no one was risking that much it's like Andy uh Sam and Genevieve have nothing to lose Andy also kind of has nothing to lose they crushed it though but I think that to me there's something that that that doesn't it doesn't quite it's not parvati giving away the two idols and then she's the only one that you can vote for but she's the only one that they won't vote for you know what i'm saying it's a little bit does put herself as a target above sam but it's not i mean she was already totally screwed like yeah like you know what i'm saying like i I feel like it was very logical and then it was executed extremely well. But to me, it was it was inside the box, but it was a really, really good inside the box from my perspective.

Yeah. OK. Wikipedia is telling me that the Cody move was four to zero to zero. But there was idols. It was a blind side of the blind side of the blind side. It was cool, too. And it was a late game move. But yeah, I mean, I think the thing for me that you could say is how much does this change? Like, do Genevieve and Sam just end up going next? I think so. But I've been wrong before. Does Andy still get to the end and they're like, you flipper, we don't even like you.

And he does. Can't beat anyone. If this, if this leads to Andy winning the game, I think it is, then it will be the best. And I do think that matters because it does play into, ultimately it can't be. And like you, it can't be the best move if it if it lowers your stock in the game. Like, you know, I mean, if you do an amazing move to get someone out, but then like Genevieve's amazing move against Saul blew up her entire game.

That's not a great move, ultimately. You know what I'm saying? So it's like if assuming if any gets out next week because everyone's mad at him over that, it will not be the best move. Well, even for me, I don't think he's going to get out. I mean, if he, even if he gets out, honestly, like he was already drawing dead. So I think, you know, who knows? Like he could get to the final six next week and win two immunities and win

fire and then get to the end and win in a way that I think he was drawing dead. So if he gets out next week, I'm still super high on it. If he gets to the end and the jury still don't want to bar of him, then it just like, it's less effective for me. But I think if the jury, if the jury love it, then it's not results oriented. It's just that we can't possibly know other than one line from Saul, we don't even get Ponderosa anymore.

Like we can't know how the jury are going to feel about this and they will affirm the move, you know know one way or the other the jury just went back to ponderosa which again we cannot know and said i still hate andy then it's like it was still the best shot he had but it just wasn't enough to do anything and that's how low the game was if the jury come back and at least a few jurors are like okay i'm considering it and i wasn't now it was like really impactful and i think we can't possibly know that until we know how the jury thinks and we just won't know that for a couple of years. Yeah.

I mean, the other thing is, and I, and, um, I listened to a Hunter and Tiffany from survivor 46 with Rob last week, and they were talking about,

and I really relate to this. They were talking about like, sometimes it's too late to find out the information at final tribal. Um, uh, and like, like I, I,

I, I'm imagining that that jury went back to Ponderosa thinking, wow, Genevieve and Sam are so amazing. And even when they find out like, like if Genevieve and Sam get out next to, and they're talking Andy up, then that will be really helpful to Andy. If they find, if they don't, if, if, if at the final three is the first time they're really hearing Andy be like, I masterminded that. I don't know how well it's going to go because of, because of that thing, because the built-in-ness of the perception, but I hope that would be extremely frustrating. And, and, but you know what, even if that does happen, it was still

an amazing movie for Andy as someone also that loves this game. That is, I'm sure going to be a big part of the survivor community forever. Having this unimpeachably fantastic, fantastically executed survivor move will have made his life. And unless he wins survivor, in which case that will make his life. And then the movie couldn't have won it without it. It gave him a chance to win and he got to do it.

It was a win-win, but he might not win. A question from Rachel H. I'm so glad we got this question because I was thinking about it and I love the level of overthinking that this community has. Again, this is my people. But Rachel H. asks, with Sue and Rachel both having idols, why would they believe they're the third idol in the game?

They needed to talk about how that would be too many advantages floating around. I did think about this. I'm like, in this world, Genevieve, I don't even remember where she said she got a clue. Like, well, I think she said she got a clue at the reward,

which does make sense. I mean, did she say that? Yeah. I thought she said to teeny, teeny, like there's a clue at the reward. I had to do a bunch of steps.

She definitely said she picked it up that day. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure she said there was a clue at the reward, which is logical. Yeah. Okay. But, but but okay so firstly sue and rachel don't know that the other one has an idol so you don't know neither of them know that there are two idols in the game um rachel might be wondering where the two idol ever went gay played one maybe it was never found we do know about this red paint thing hard to kind of put two and two together on that. Sue could never know that Rachel found one randomly

in the merge. So I think that that is tough. But it's like, okay, so either one of two things happened, like there just was one idol in the game, or even, I don't think they would hide another one on two. I mean, they didn't. But they might, because Rachel is saying, why would they believe there's a third idol in the game?

I mean, advantage, get, and once a word. Like they might, but they probably won't but I guess they could or there might have been three idols in the game and like soul gets blindsided with one like it definitely wasn't Carl definitely wasn't Gabe you knew they won the chopping block but like sold it and there's been clues and people haven't found them like I think it's very very hard without knowing what all the idols are to try and gain that back and have that be the reason you don't believe it's an idol yeah i think that one thing that the new era really did succeed in is the you have no freaking idea what the producers are going to do like in the in the the 30s if there were an idol was played and idols coming back

i would say you cannot count on predictability at all with the Idols in the new era. And I would never bank on, there couldn't possibly be another Idol. Like, you don't fucking know what these guys are up to. Sorry, I forget if I'm allowed to curse on this one. Well, I do think that if you think that Genevieve has an Idol, anyone would think she found it within this round

because, well, I mean, at least since Gabe. If she didn't play it at the Carl vote, I mean, maybe that was more locked and loaded well i mean at least since gabe if she didn't play it at the car vote i mean maybe that was more locked and loaded but like at least since gabe so you know it was recent so like why is it hidden now they put one randomly with rachel in the game a couple of rounds before that the only one who knows that that was found by rachel and that that's taking up an idol spot in the game is rachel who then doesn't necessarily know that like sue has one so i think that's fine i tell. I don't even remember when that happened. I don't know.

It's a blur at this point. It was after the Tiana. So it must have been at the Sierra. Oh, it was in the Tars and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the auction. It was the Sierra boot. So like that could be now.

For everyone else, they don't know that Rachel did that. That exact thing just happened now. So that thing happened at the Sierra boot. No one found it. And they've been trying to push clues on people ever since and then genevieve found one of the reward right exactly it i mean for all that it could have yeah it also were like in their world they're like assuming it's a full idol what if it was a one round idol like you know they do all sorts of i don't know i think it's i think it's too hard to to game out what the producers would it's very

very hard yeah yeah it's very very hard yeah yeah it's very very hard i think for for any of them and like is rachel who found one within the last few rounds and is now having to believe they hit another one at the last few rounds again without knowing for a fact if sue has one and maybe questioning where that idol is um is rachel the one who like mostly thinks would they hide another idol well she's the one we said was like immune and least having to think about it if that's even the case but i'm glad that other people care about this because i write down all of these thoughts and i think does anyone care and someone asks a question and it's so affirming and i love it so so much um yeah the point about the timing is i i

get what you're saying about the timing i think uh i don't know once once i once uh my team won immunity and then we lost the immunity so uh for an hourglass so i just uh don't i i never the new era would never hide it yeah exactly the monster is still is still uh quaking me in my boots so i'm not trusting the producers on anything ryan brooks asked question does this move ultimately help rachel caroline was a major hurdle in the end game and now she has advantages that can control the vote at final six and two people loyal to her um i thought who are the two people that are loyal to her andy who just oh no not andy suantini that's the group suantini suantini yeah okay okay i still think rachel's gonna win like i i don't know that I feel like it helped her game because I think that what it did create was a much smaller,

you know, a much smaller window to get rid of two threats who I think will beat her, one of who was meant to go now, and I think that that was going to get her through to the final five where she had an idol. Like, I think that was a fine path. Now, edit aside, you'd hate for, like, you know, Sam goes next, Genevieve gets to five, wins one immunity and fire. i think that was a fine path now edit aside you'd hate for like a you know sam goes next genevieve gets to five wins one immunity and fire like that's a loss for rachel so i think the chances of that do narrow it but yeah i still think the pathway is six five sam genevieve now you're at four you don't even necessarily need your idol and through and that's

then rachel's gonna win and i and kate um bought me great listener of the podcast Kate Allen bought me a tiara for the draft pre-ordered it and I really thought it cursed her immediately I was like this is done and she won immunity and thank god because I could not have lived with myself I yeah I do think I I do think that while Caroline was the major was in some sense a major hurdle like Caroline was very on to Rachel some sense, a major hurdle, like rate Caroline was very onto Rachel being a threat and, and you know, had Sue and, and so had some definitely some room to navigate.

Let's definitely make sure to say more nice stuff about Caroline also. But I do think what the, the problem in not having Caroline anymore is Rachel is even more obviously the only one of that group that has cred. And I think I think she already stuck out a bit and now she sticks out even more. And I think there's maybe a world where you could convince people that where Rachel could convince people that they need to not sit at the end with Caroline and they should sit with her and, uh, which would be wrong probably, but you have a shot maybe. Whereas I don't think you can convince people that they should sit with you

instead of Sue or teeny or even, and, or Andy, you know, even with this move. So I do think taking out the second best, biggest threat in the five is not that good for rachel ultimately and rachel and caroline was talking about like going to the end with rachel like maybe that's the choice i still think that they wouldn't have done it i still think that but i do think that when caroline comes for rachel i thought that rachel could have protected it like that's probably a final five with an idol so i wasn't super worried about it like the intention i think was there they were also nice thoughts about going to the end together i do think they

turn but i think rachel would have had it covered. And now I think, yeah, has these other threats in the game who are good shields, but are very, very close to the end. They're making it to the first part of a two-part finale next week. So that is a little bit scary. I am, um... What if the final three is Genevieve, Sam,

and Rachel? How sick would that be? That would be like... Yeah, that's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen, but one time could that ever happen you know no no uh those are probably the next three out the door no probably I think Rachel will make it um okay I'm realizing that we're an hour and a half in like Rob comes back from Houston off well he comes back from the events and I'm like I did a really long podcast um sorry um well let's get to the chizzy first and then we can maybe say nice things about Caroline take Take it away, Jacob. Take it away, Stine.

And MC, Carla and Scott. Oh, it's looping, Scott. Okay. We got a little bit extra. Do we have the Chizzy charts as well um what are your points evie these are the charts oh boy to a three-person group who just made the move or others yeah i don't feel i don't feel so good about mine i'll be me oh well yeah well i think you flipped me a little you flipped me around you flipped me around. You flipped me around in here. You flipped me around on Sam's reward choices.

It's so nice to be flipping. You know that Andy flipped, but the flipping we're doing, that's... Right. Well, so this is my fundamental... This is my problem. The problem I'm having is I think Andy, obviously, was the mastermind of the move. But again, it's so...

It's hard for... Yeah, he took himself from probably not being able to win at all to having a shot at winning probably, but we still don't know how big of a shot that is, but he did the best thing that he could do. So that's really good. I do feel that Sam really saved himself and created the conditions and brought the right people. I really, really believe he actually really did bring the right people on the reward, and the reward was where the whole thing really happened, and I don't think it would have happened as well without. So my inclination is to give the three to Sam,

but I think that is – I feel like that's wrong. I feel like I shouldn't give it to the jock over here. You do you. No, that's not a joke. You do you. Okay, I really think Sam was going to go home this week. And I think because of actions that Sam took and his acting and bringing the right people

and the relationship he built with Andy the whole game and the relationship he cultivated with Genevieve. Like, again, he also, I think he's also very, like, me and Genevieve are allies. And I think Genevieve's kind of like, okay, Sam, sure. But I'm really reading him emotionally connecting. He was trying to protect him

when Sierra went. Okay, that's true. Okay, fine. So he built a good relationship with Genevieve. Anyway, I think that he, I really do think that for the position that he's in,

he really, he was going to be the one and he made it so that he wasn't, I really think. And I don't know. I think the reward pick was risky and the right and really right. And it really worked out. So I'm going to do it.

I'm going to give three to Sam and I love it. Yeah, I mean, three to Sam. I'm going to give two to Andy. I mean, it obviously was absolutely amazing. And I do think he took himself from a no win to a potential win. And I think that's amazing. And then I'll do I'll do one for Genevieve. Cause I, I honestly, originally, I'm not even gonna lie. This is fucked up.

This is bad. I mean, maybe I was originally going to do three, Sam, two Genevieve, one Andy, because I felt so strongly that the jury is going to reward Genevieve and Sam in their minds for this more than Andy. Um, but, uh, whatever Andy deserves deserves two and Genevieve can have one you flipped me around on Sam's reward picks which I'm now higher on and I will say for Sam as well they keep doing this where they don't tell you it's the letters until after the challenge and I don't like that because I think people should be able to make the decision it's an interesting decision do you want to give up your own letters and not win the challenge? Because it's so emotional and people with so much stock in the letters. Like Rachel seemed glad not to win.

Rachel was trying to win at the point where you're bringing, you know, you know, Sue and Andy for Italian food. That's a different decision. And it's also, it was at the final six last round, like last season. So I think that's hard to actually judge. So I don't, I don't blame Sam for winning. I might have comments about it. No, actually always win he's trying to have he's going home so he needs opportunities so it's fine but it's a hard one to win often and and you've now convinced

me that he did really well with it so now I was going to give Sam one point um because I was low on that um I still think for me I'm definitely giving three points to Andy not only was it his plan but as I've said, like he, to get them onto the primary, to get himself onto the primary was the main thing he did that. And I think another point that's gone unsaid, if he needs to read and trust Genevieve and Sam fully, he's not risking a lot because I think he's drawing dead at that point,

but he's giving them so much information. He's saying it's called the underdogs alliance and she has a vote block and like all the stuff and like if they feel he's not going with it or it's too risky or oh no i'm sorry they didn't put me on the primary or whatever they could always go back to the others and be like do you know that andy was flipping on you and like maybe they all go for andy but i think he's reading and trusting that they're desperate enough and that they probably don't do that because everyone's like oh we're pissed at andy and then they still vote out genevieve now knowing she doesn't have an idol and it was all a ploy like he's reading something that actually he's putting himself out there and he read it well and like got on all of them for the performances and like

successfully achieving this on read on yeah organization on plan on all of it i mean that's just to say and this is the key i feel like the best survivor moves are amazing group efforts i mean yes the eric reichenbach necklace was a many person amazing move and like yeah we love to point out that yeah yeah you know three to three good offseason yeah yeah well that's actually something to think that's actually fun maybe we should do a podcast that's like Shizzy pointing Some of the most iconic moves in Survivor history I actually don't hate that, okay

Thank you Evie, I love that And they got one of the savvy players Like really good players, Caroline Like Rachel, they're all teeny Oh I thought you were talking about like JT and Amanda And I was like, oh Eric Reichenbach No, I was talking about this episode

now but I do like that idea yeah um three points to Andy and then I still think I'm giving two to Genevieve over Sam but now there's no negative on Sam no notes across the board now that I've convinced you that Andy was good you've convinced me Sam was good I just think Genevieve did more took on the risk now of putting her name out there had to make the fake idol show the fake idol but objectively one with a teeny but don't we agree that that was more teeny being kind of dumb than jen like genevieve everything she was saying made no sense i know like that was really if teeny had just one person that story it all falls apart was sam there when genevieve said to teeny oh just put it on me and that's fine wait i'm actually looking at the chat yeah someone i'm looking at the chat because i'm trying to like you know i have my youtube tv recording i'm gonna see if i

could quickly this is this is the difference between one and two points for me so it's actually really really really important. OK, OK. Is Sam there when she says that? Can someone tell us? Can someone find it faster than me live? OK.

OK, it's fine. You can look at it during the plug. So I'm actually going to take the chippy chats away. I'm going to decide based on based on when that happens. OK, well, I'm going to do the plugs now and then we're gonna decide all right the wand off is coming back this is this week on club condo

I am so excited Jenna in the chat is saying Sam was there Ryan saying Sam was there Kenzie says yes in the chat is it yeah yes Sam was there okay everyone's confirming okay so sorry yeah that makes no sense that doesn't and then andy came and they ran all right chat if you lead me astray and make the cheesy points all right well but i think that okay we're going to it's fine evie will check but i believe you chat yeah um yeah so what we're going to do yeah the wand off i've recorded a wand off as well and i'm i need to submit it i'm super excited about the wand off most most wonderful time of the year moving on club condo this week we know survivor the houston live show is coming they're all there right now probably having a great time watch a fantastic episode

know it all is happening probably friday yeah because rob's traveling that's probably right sam said he would write this down for me um let's find out yeah friday okay that's friday um yeah no it alls moving on really excited to hear robin stevens takes on it the q a with the patrons if you're not a patron what are you doing what are you doing moving on episode 12 q a and that's on saturday uh evie that's you you're in you can't stop stop looking up when sam was there that's me there i am oh i hate that picture okay that's fine you want to talk about this yes i did a really fun podcast with mike Bloom, where I had just gotten off the plane home from Thanksgiving and had three drinks of whiskey and then talked to Mike Bloom about my taste in scripted reality TV shows. I really I was really in the Thanksgiving mindsets. If you're really going to hear me getting into some of my teenagerhood and stuff like that.

It was it was a really great time. You know, Mike Bloom can never go wrong. You know, great, great time. Yeah, we talked about Weeds. We talked about Lost. We talked about Grey's Anatomy. We talked about me downloading stuff on my video iPod. It was great.

Amazing. Well, that's Evie on TV for real. Become a patron. As I said, if you're not, what are you doing? Patron-only shows. The community is amazing. Activities. They just had a lot in Houston.

Swag. Always wearing my RHAP swag. Discounts and so much more. Become a patron today. What else do we have? Evie, have you found the filibuster? I'm right at it. I'm right at it.

Okay. I'll say the filibuster, actually. We're going to make this a long podcast, but I hope everyone's having fun. Caroline was great. He's right there. He is right there. He's in the conversation. He's signing that.

She's saying it. He's, he's complicit. He's complicit. But yeah, but what can he really do at that moment? I mean, that,

that, that is not good. Yeah. All right. So, so just to, just to explain, like,

again, Genevieve says to Tini oh cool keep it on me and the that means that Genevieve's like great Sam will go home and Sam will go home and I'm gonna just have this conversation in front of him okay get the charts back up now we have okay one point to Genevieve that is the most live chizzy we are making history history give the points Scott are we getting the the chart history history give the points scott are we getting the the chart back to give the points from the chart nope oh yeah here it is so now genevieve is on 24 sam is on 21 andy's on 19 soul left on 18 and then we run it down rachel and andy both um

andy's as i said he's got got more teeny and Rachel on 13 points. Caroline left on 11. And then there are other people who are out of the game. Yeah. Caroline was awesome. I really loved logic. I loved her. Like her story last week was great.

I love the way she was controlling to coup and we can get rid of the charts. But that's the jizzy. Yeah. I loved. Yeah. I love. She was great. trolling tooku and we can get rid of the chat scott um but that's the jiffy um yeah i loved uh yeah i love she was great i love carolyn one thing in particular that i loved about carolyn is i feel like first of all you just really saw how much she loved the game and i really loved the way she something she really did was when other people were doing something good she would be really

enthusiastic with them in a really genuine way like Like when, when they were doing the car, the cards thing that ultimately like the, the build, the Jenga thing that her and Rachel and Sam did, like at one point, Rachel does a good move in it. And Carolyn's like, Epic, Epic. That was Epic, you know? And she, and she ultimately loses, but she was like, that was a great game. Like, and you just felt that infectiousness from her. And I think that really allowed her to like build amazing relationships with people in the game. And I just I really, really liked her. I love I love the thing of Carolyn and Rachel and Genevieve kind of all seeing each other as these like brilliant strategic women in the game. And I feel like Carolyn really was like, I see Rachel. I like what Rachel's doing. I got to get, you know, like I just I really like that energy a lot. So Carolyn, you were amazing.

I hope she's feeling proud of herself. I really enjoyed watching her yeah yeah and like for Caroline I was critical of the gay move I came back a little bit on it um obviously she doesn't go for that reason she recovered really well for that obviously the game is completely different if that's not what happens and that's a different pathway not to say it would have gone better or worse but it's's different. She doesn't go for what I viewed as a gay mistake, even if I see it a little bit better, but it's really unfortunate for Caroline. She had a very viable win.

She had a very viable win position. Yeah, from last week, she really, really did. Yeah, which is amazing. And I just, her and Sue is very sweet, and it makes me think of me and Tiffany if we had gone further in the game, and I really, I really liked that. I like them. Yeah.

Well, people said Erica and Heather. Sure. I guess that's the other one. That's my second favorite. Yeah. In this house, we go with Evie and Tiffany. I mean, yeah, for Caroline, like, yeah, to be the second choice. You're like the clear second choice where, again, they can't even have a decoy vote because it's so

clearly her but like it was meant to be Rachel and like so much had to happen and it's like it's on the primary thing and it's unfortunate basically but that's all we have Evie for Long podcast I make I make no apologies it was so fun I feel like we really got to a lot considering we just watched this like crazy episode yep yep loved it loved it love talking with you love survivor best show ever fun i love that we convinced each other of things and the chili was live and like ah survivor's alive right now like oh it's so good yep yeah i don't want this season to end i'm liking it i mean i really want to know the outcome but i'm really excited to like i i really feel like this this was i just feel like this has been a good game like that's how I feel about this season like

a lot of good game but this was a peak by far I've been saying that the season is like fun but like consistent like nothing really sounds like up or down for me but like this is like way up yeah Evie do you want to plug stuff I know that you had like a great like charity Instagram live and they tell the people where to find you

what you're doing yes I would love to plug stuff okay if you are just. Yes, I would love to plug stuff. Okay. If you are just meeting me for the first time, my name's Evie. I am queer and non-binary and trans. And I did a really fun and important fundraiser this past weekend where I brought together a bunch of survivor players to raise money for an organization called Point of Pride, which helps trans people get the healthcare and other wellness services that they need. They've got like a medical assistance scholarship fund, uh, and they give people free like binders and other shape where it's a really amazing organization. We've already raised $2,500, uh, from the fundraiser this

weekend, but you can still donate. And I'd love to, I'd love to bump that up to at least 3,000, maybe even 4,000. How many people listen to this podcast? Probably a lot, um, to donate and you can watch clips of the live. We had so many people on there. Teeny was there. It was really fun. Um, we got to bond and talk about that. Uh, who else was there? We had Katora, we had Jake, we had Franny, Tiffany, Nasir, Abraham for my season. We had Maddie, we had Jacob Derwin. Uh, we had had some rhapp favorites like grace and matt and josh wiggler and it was just super fun you can check it all out on my instagram which is at evie jag um and you can donate there through my instagram or you could just text the word

trans futures to 44321 and you can donate to that amazing organization and you should do that do you think that's amazing but also do you think that Genevieve was saying like okay let them put all the votes on me because neither me or Sam will go home and just being like I wouldn't even imagine that they would split but but if you but so so in that world Teenie has to believe that what Genevieve trusts her so much to let their plan like like she's thinking that she's Teenie is believing that Genevieve is her so much to let their plan like she's thinking that she's, Teenie's believing that Genevieve is telling her I have

this great plan to blindside one of the people in your group of five and I'm telling you it because I think you won't act upon that before they said Caroline's the target okay so Teenie thinks they're trying to idle out Caroline,

but we are going to split and get one over on Genevieve. And Genevieve hasn't anticipated that we're going to split. So she said it in front of Sam. It just involves. It's not right. It's not right. It's not right. Yeah.

That's the best that I can get to like two hours after the episode, but I don't know. It's not right. Again, if you, best that I can get to like two hours after the episode but I don't know it's not right again if you I do think that if teeny had told one other person this story it would have fallen apart okay yeah okay fair enough you've brought me down a little bit on what Genevieve was doing and up and what sounds like I think it's fair and we're not going back it's been it's been almost two hours so um yeah so I have a global next week with Princess Nina Twine

Follow me at Shannon Gates for all the content And that is it, thank you all so much Thank you to, oh yes Oh sorry, just one other thing, I'm going to be in Orlando this weekend At the amazing reality Charity event And if you're in Orlando for that It's going to be great and I'll see you there

That's a plug Amazing, there's so much going on, what a fun episode So much fun talking about it with you evie thank you to the listeners i'm gonna be i'm gonna be like wrestling with this into the night and it is the daytime here so yeah no okay i think it's right i think i'm gonna think about it and i think it's i think it's right but thank you evie thank you to the listeners thank you to scott and the team behind the scenes and rob we'll see you on the listeners. Thank you to Scott and the team behind the scenes. And Rob, we'll see you on the next one. Bye.

Bye.