RHAP: We Know Survivor - Evvie Jagoda Recaps Survivor 49 Ep 9

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Survivor 49 takes center stage on the RHAP Survivor Post-Game Show as Rob Cesternino and Evvie Jagoda break down the biggest moves and toughest decisions from this week’s episode. Rob and Evvie highlight how the so-called “new era” is put to the test, as unpredictable votes and shifting alliances define the chaos in Fiji. The hosts discuss how Juwan and Sage’s swing vote strategy comes to a head, and whether their pendulum gameplay can hold up under pressure.

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An empty PC box, a receipt in her purse. All right, Susan, I bought the PC chocolate basque cheesecake. It was just $11. Can you stop true-craming me? Can I have another slice? Try the season's biggest hits from the PC Holiday Insiders Report. coming to you live from my apartment it's rob has a podcast and now here's the guy who's more excited than a shark wearing a necklace filled with human teeth i'm rob sister nino hello everybody welcome back to our recap of episode number nine of survivor 49 and i'm so excited to be back here

with one of our great friends. It's Dr. Evie. Jigota, Dr. Evie, how are you? I'm doing so great, Rob. You know, I love to be here. We're closing out the new era. It's kind of poetic. Are we closing out the new era?

Did you have some intel that the new era is ending? Oh, well, I just assume that 49 is kind of, you know, the end of the new era in some sense. But I guess I hadn't even occurred to me that maybe not at all. And I guess is 50 new era? My fear is that we will be in the new era forever. And there is nothing, there is no, almost like how fashion used to change in the 50s and the 60s and the 70 days. And then you got the 2000.

And then basically, you know, the phones and like the screens are different. But really that the style, it's like we've kind of been in the new era since like 2006. of whatever this is? I don't know. I think we might need a fact check on that one. That might be the Rob style era. I feel like there's probably some gradations in the 2000s off.

You fact check me on this, okay? We're in the new era of fashion and it doesn't change anymore. We're in Fiji and everybody's wearing the same things and just the phones change. That's it. Just the phones. Nothing else has ever changing. Yeah. I don't know.

You may know about evolution, but I know about the evolution of like the fashion and this is this is it we've arrived that's it's done skinny jeans baggy jeans

should make the jeans go in and out but I mean I feel like that when if I showed you a picture from you know 1994 you'd say like okay okay it's 1994 but I'll show you a picture from like

2013 like you know is it is it 2007 or is it like a 2023. I'll just say I feel that someone can do it. It's not me, but I think probably, you know, there's, I think, well, and then

back to Survivor. No, not even back to Survivor. No, we're on this. And from the listeners, like, weigh in. Let us know what you think of this. And let me just also say that if, look, you feel like that, hey, you went to sleep and you woke up

and you don't know what year it is, that means you're sleeping great. But if that's not you, check out Mantha's sleep. our sponsor for this podcast, get 10% off. Man to Sleep.com with promo code RJP 49. Evie, I don't mean to come in so hot into this podcast. How are you doing? I'm doing great, Rob.

I'm doing great. I've got Wicked Tickets after this. So I'll hopefully be good if you know what I mean. I don't know what you mean. For good. You got to watch Act 2. And then maybe I didn't know you were making a pun about the joke. one of the stars of Wicked is Bowen-Yang.

True. A big Survivor fan, famously. Big Survivor fan. Big Survivor fan. Big Parvite fan. Yes. Did you see that Jeff weighed in on some, the recent comments that Matt Rogers made about Parvety and Jeff was like, that wasn't me.

What? Jeremy said that. Oh, oh, okay, Jeff. You're just going to throw Jeremy straight into the best. I mean, Jeff does have a point. Jeremy was the one that answered the question like that. But Jeremy is dug in. Jeremy is locked in on 1.5 wins for Parvety.

And Jeff's like, I, that was, listen, don't make fun. Don't get mad at me. Right, right. Well, he did ask the question, you know, you know, but, you know, just asking questions. But here's the thing. Love Jeremy. He lives in Boston. We love that.

But Parvety is a two-time winner of Survivor. Take that to the bank. Yes. Okay. So can you make any parallels between the saga of Wicked and Survivor 49? Let me put you on the spot. Wow. Okay.

Love it. I mean, who, I mean, I think that all comes down to who's the Glenda. Who's the Alphabah? It's right. It's Sage and Savannah. Like, oh, she's the mean girl. I don't like her. It's like, well, I'm actually misunderstood.

Okay. Maybe is Savannah the Elfabah? Right. Well, that's so confusing because, okay, I think this is actually. gets to what is so interesting about those two characters because I think just looking at the playing field you would say starting point savannah's the glinda kind of the popular girl energy right stage the weirdo collecting blackheads nothing could be more alpha but coded than having a right thing like that that should ostracize you but then we're in this alternate reality where at this

point sage clearly the power player uh of the two of those uh in the game right now and I think that's some of this dynamic we're seeing with Savannah and Sage, where Sage perceives herself to be an underdog still, but as actually one of the most powerful players in the game, Savannah, our supposed popular girl is quite ostracad. Interesting. It's interesting.

It's interesting. It's a Rorschach test. Totally. Totally. And I'll just say about the eras of survivor thing, inherently, even if they say in the new era format, it will be like nothing,

that's the whole thing about that, going back to my evolution roots, It's like it can't, it can't stay the same over 20 seasons no matter what. Like, you know, the first 20 seasons, even though it's all technically old era, obviously tons of gradations. I don't know. Maybe that's not a perfect. Or even like, you know, from the 20 to 40, like a lot's going on there even though it's not predefined eras. It's because we see the players changing.

We see all that, you know, it'll be postmodern new era something. Well, that'll be a fascinating discussion when we get there post 50. what does it look like when we drop the five keep the one what does the newest era look like but that's a conversation for a different day evie just so you know we know you're going to go see wicked but outside of that well what's new with you what's going on let's see i guess i don't know i don't know what new is in terms of when the last time i was here but i don't know i have a new job as of i've had a new job this year so i started in february i now i work for a cancer research biotech company. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And so it's quite different from my evolution work,

but it's very important and that feels cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's been fun. But it's also like I now have like kind of a real job, like more than I feel like I used to. Yeah. And how's that going for you? Is that you doing exciting work, but is it like a little bit more of a commitment than you're used to? Yeah. It's a little like I actually, you know, I'm kind of locked in all day, like, like doing my job, you know? But yeah, yeah, well, yeah, that's right. You're, you can't do something else at the same time. Yeah, you're, you're really locked in. Yeah, no, it's cool, though, because, you know, I think, you know, sometimes you can get a little like, oh, I'm working so hard. But then I step back and, you know, Sam and Brandon, before this,

we're asking me what I'm doing. And I mean, it sounds pretty important, right? You know, cancer research, pretty good, helping basically look at like patients. And a lot of the stuff I do is like looking at patients and their genetic mutations in their tumors and seeing which patients respond well to treatment versus don't respond well in treatment and the mutation. So it can help develop new immunotherapy drugs and targeted cancer drugs and stuff. So pretty cool. All right. Yeah, important work. And so thank you for making some time in between that and the movie to talk a little bit about Survivor 49. How are you feeling about this season? You know, I think not a unique take

the beginning was a little rough a little slower you always make it fun though you know we had a great time at the live show but it's like the Wizard of Oz you know the beginnings in black and white it's like oh I hate this part it's boring

exactly but then we hit the merge boom we're in color boom there's a joke about black and white snake somewhere in there oh my god I think ever since the the Shannon boot we picked up extreme like that was an episode. I really feel like, I mean, again, everyone said this at the time. But that episode,

I was sitting there screaming at the TV like, let's go. It's going to happen. Again, no shade to Shannon. I'm sure she's a great person. But in the, in the edit of the show, I really wanted that to happen. Fellow Bostonian, you know, the princess of the survivor cafe. So, um, a lot of, a lot of clout here in Boston. Have you been to the survivor cafe? Were you up there? I, I mean, you can't be a survivor in Boston if you've not been to the Survivor Cafe. I have been, uh, yeah, I went there during one of the Bryce and Wendell shows. It's It was at the same venue, checked out the cafe. You know, they have a bartender there.

You cannot get a drink from him. You can only get a survivor hat. What? It's pretty cool. Yeah. Is a bartender and he doesn't serve drinks? You can only buy hats from the bartender? There's, there's secretly.

Wouldn't that make him a hat tender? Well, there's a guy standing behind the bar that you think might give you a drink. But he will not. He will only sell you survivor merchandise. But then you can get your sweet survivor merchandise. and then find the other bartender and get a drink. So thing, bang, boom. Can they, I buy the Survivor calendar from this guy.

I don't, I don't know about the Survivor calendar. I do think there's an opportunity to get the Zaddy calendar behind the bar. I think that would, maybe, maybe. So did you get any merch when you were there? I didn't. Merchatory for you. But people did have, people did have good, good merch going on. It's fun.

It's fun because, you know, you're, you're having dinner and you're, You're surrounded by, you know, the ambiance of Survivor. It's pretty fun. Okay. Good for them. All right. Listen, I don't know if this is a paid endorsement for the Survivor Cafe, but Evio, we got to talk about Survivor 49. Let's get into it.

Okay. So, all right, we had Alex who was the person who got voted out. And we heard all that Alex. Oh, my God. This guy is playing the middle so hard. He's got to go. Yeah. You know what I think?

Okay, here's my take. You know who's really playing the middle? Who? Joanne and Sage. Where the hell are they? You know? Like, are they playing the middle well? No, I don't think so.

I think they were doing great until this week. But I'm like, I feel like I, you know, I finished last night's episode and I feel like a lot of the discussion is like, why didn't they get out, you know, why didn't they flush rid of his idol? Why did they get out Alex? But it's all being said, like, why did the majority alliance do this? But it's not the majority alliance. Like Stephen and Christina got blindsided by their two allies who basically just flipped back to the minority.

So they just kind of flip back to the minority. Like they're really, they're playing the middle in a more concrete way than Alex was who was just kind of. I feel like Alex was more like a number for anyone. That's not really the same as playing the middle. Yeah, maybe Alex was playing the middle when there was like a seven person alliance that voted out Nate. And he was sort of like playing the middle between, you know, the whatever the bottoms up was with Stephen and Joanne and Sage and then also with Sophie and MC and Christina maybe he was like in the middle of that but I mean he was not playing the

middle between like Rizzo and Savannah or Rizzo yeah Rizzo and Savannah are like oh is is Alex with us or not or what I would not characterize what Alex was doing as playing the middle right exactly I mean maybe it's like he was hard to pin down which I do understand that as a trust friendly guy yeah but on the other it's like where was Alex really going like what damage was if you think that the most damage he could do is that he flips to savannah and Rizzo probably better off getting rid of Rizzo you know like if you're so worried about the flip back and I also yeah I don't know so I mean I think so Juan and Sage have so much power and they therefore are have this ability to mull over every possible option and they're taking too much

many of those options. You know, they're not restricted enough. You think that maybe if they had less options that they would be doing better. Yes, which granted, Rizzo did seem to insert the Alex narrative pretty hard, which I thought, I mean, sorry, I have a lot to say. Rizzo is getting a very interesting edit, I feel. Overall, very positive. But I feel like there's been glimmers where I'm like, are they dunking on him?

But they're not really. But I'm like, in that scene with the Alex, with him pushing the Alex narrative, I have. thought that that was a bit comedic when I first watched it. Like I thought that was showing us, oh, Rizzo thinks he's got everybody on Alex, but no, of course he doesn't. But then he did. So that's obviously on me reading it wrong. But I don't know, I'm a little. You doubt the Riz God. R-I-Z-G-O-D-R-I-Z-G-O-D-R-God, baby. That is good. I have to say, I love that so much. I assumed I would hate it. I saw the trailer at the end of 48. I was like, what are we doing here? I love it. I can't stop saying it. I think it's amazing.

Yes. Did you consider giving yourself a nickname? Yeah, Evgod. He totally ripped that straight off. You know, no. No, I didn't. You know, okay, I have something to say about names also now that we're on this topic. I'm just flying all around. I love how fired up you are. I'm fired up. You know me. I can talk. I can talk about Survivor. Cancel Wicked. You can go another night. Yeah. I mean, it is going to be playing for a long time, right? Okay, the whole Sophie thing, that would have killed me. The fact that he asked her that at a mat chat, like in front of everyone. I mean, was it not unlike, okay, so should we say come on in guys or not?

Yeah, and that sucks. And that sucked. We should be doing everything possible to get away from things like the come on in guys, Matt chat. Like, okay, I remember really distinctly in the pregame of Survivor 41, you know, you have these individual meetings with Jeff and Kierhofer and the, director, you're kind of, they all meet with you. And one thing I said in my, I forget how it came. I was just like, by the way, I just want to be really clear. It's, it's Evie, not Evie. And Jeff

looks at me and Jeff serious and is like, you will never hear me say Evie. And I was like, wow, Jeff really cares about saying my name right. That makes me feel so good and like respected in this production. And if in the middle of the game, he'd be like, Ev's cool, right? Okay, great. It's Ev now and Ev is on all the things. I would find that annoying. And Yellow Sophie was the one that declared that it's okay. That it's like, she's Sophie and the other one is soap. That was kind of a badass move.

You got to give her that. She claimed it. Yeah. And then it really threw me off when she said, hey, it's Sophie Sogretti Survivor time. It's like, wait, hold on. Now we're dropping a new name for you? Yes. I had that in my notes.

Savannah at some point says Sophie S. And I was like, which one's Sophie S? It's not a nomenclature we're given. They needed to decide that. They have colors. They have initial Sophie. I think blue and yellow was working fine. And I think we should stay there.

So with their tribe color. Yeah. Do you, did you get a nickname? Because you, I mean, aside from, I won't say it here, but, you know, the Robb who. The Rob that sucks. Well, I became the Rob that sucks well after my Survivor playing career. That the fans were trying to figure out a way, who is who

and I was blogging about Survivor during Survivor Nicaragua and somebody's like oh that's so cool Boston Rob is blogging about the season and the fan said

no no no no that's not Boston Rob that's the Rob that sucks sure so that's how you tell the difference that's how you tell the difference and so I played with Boston Rob on Survivor All-Stars

and he's Boston Robb and he's Boston Robb but I was always Rob C also. Very bachelor-coded of you. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so look, and sometimes that if you're on a show and somebody's the same name as you, there could be like a little bit of like, oh, who's, who are we calling what? Right. And you know, I, I think it's been fun to see the Sophie's work together. You, I, it really felt like Sophie squared. Sophie squared. That was good. It seemed like I thought when the whole Sophie Sophie thing happened that yellow Sophie was really trying to

kind of very lusuf, but I don't know. We'll keep straight. I mean, I finally got... It's nice that they're not competitive over it. Yeah. And it's good we got rid of, again, RIP Shannon, but need more S girls out of the game, unfortunately, just for the... Too many women with the S names?

It's just a lot. S tier. But I've got it now. The premarge was a little rough. Premarge was rough. Okay. So let's go back to Joanne and Sage in terms of like they're positioning in the game and how they're playing it because I feel like that they were together on these last

couple of votes, but I felt like that they sort of switched who wanted what from last week's vote to this week's vote, where I felt like that last time I felt like that was more sage saying like, hey, why don't we go for Rizzo? And Juan's like, nah, let's work with them because they're here. And then I felt like that this week, it was more Jawan saying like, hey, this is. the time. Let's take our shot on Rizzo and Sage was like, but what if we don't? Yeah, I mean, I honestly, and I heard you talking about that with Stephen, I can't quite tell the distribution of who's kind of, I can quite see who was driving between Sage and Joanne, like in each of these

individual weeks around that, but, and maybe there's, there's specific scenes you're thinking of, but to me, I think overall, like, and we're working with this situation where at the end of the day, I think Joanne and Sage, to me, I feel it honestly more of Joanne having warm feelings towards Rizzo and like things like that. Like I don't know. I feel like, I feel like, well, credit to Rizzo and Savannah did a good job after the Nate vote of being like, don't worry. We're fine. Like, we want to work with you. In my opinion, I thought Rizzo was doing a particularly good job of that.

Like, don't worry about it at all. Don't worry about it all. So much so that I feel like Juan and Sage have fully reput Savannah and Rizzo back in their heads as potential numbers for them, people they could work with, they obviously have a longer relationship with them than the former yellow tribe members, right? But, and I think, yeah, especially, I mean, I think Savannah has clearly been a red flag, uh, red flag threat for everybody, but Rizzo clearly, it's not the same, it doesn't have the same juice to it. And I think every time Savannah's not available, it becomes like less exciting to do

the Rizzo plan, you know? And for Juan and Sage, I think that they have a little bit of a blind spot in that they don't maybe recognize just how close Sof is because Sof has done a good job of like, hey, like I'll do whatever. I don't care. Like, yeah, I was with those guys, but I don't care about them. And then also I don't think that they see that Yellow Sophie has also jumped ship and is with them. So maybe it's a wake up call where now that they see that there were so, like, I didn't know that it's that the Sofs were also voting with us on this one. Boy, we've, oh, we switched and voted with, they already had four. And now they, there were six votes for Alex last night. Yeah, that's a great. I've been wondering about that, too, of if they knew that or not. Because that is so interesting. Like, if they, because if they did know that, how did that come about? Because then they are just fully saying, we're going to blindside Christina and Stephen, which I don't feel like would be their intention because we know they have good relationships with those people.

So, which by the way, wow, Christina probably should have kept that chicken, you know, a lot of good ultimately did. By the way, I'm with you, not Steven. Everything in Survivor is strategy. Even the nice human moments are strategy. Christina, she's got the poker face. She said it herself. Yeah. Does she have a good poker face or not? But it really seems like that she told us in the confessional. No, no, no, this was I did this as something nice. and I asked Alex also like what do you think was this strategy and he said no I think it was something nice

he said but you know there's a little bit maybe but why do people want to be no I wanted to be even outside the game like I understand like why you would say it in the game but why not in the confessional why do people lie in the confessionals and again maybe Christina is like out there

somewhere and we'll post it like I 100% I wasn't even thinking about the game I love Joanne well okay let's say i just wanted to see him eat you're getting too skinny i mean fair fair enough i guess like it's also you know she did do it's like she did that and it happened to be someone she was working with right like i think that's the kind of like you build your own self narrative as well i i just really love if ris god had not eaten yet would she have said ris god you got to eat baby i just don't think so personally that that's what i'm saying like

It's, you know, when you're, when your natural human instincts happen to line up with what is happening in the game, well, that's, you know, that's the perfect recipe for doing something nice. But it is always risky, like to do, to put yourself, it's putting yourself in the spotlight as doing something. Maybe she was purely nice, but you've got someone like me sitting there being like, oh my God, Christina is such a schemer. Did you see the way she gave up that food for Juan that was so sketchy? You know what I mean? You just, you don't know. You know, this came up in Survivor Winners at War. And I heard Jeremy on the On Fire podcast talking about when it came up in San Juan del Sur.

But it happened in Winners at War where, remember, Sarah Elicina was like, oh, I don't, like, I'm allergic to MSG. I can't eat Chinese food. Nick Wilson, you take my spot. And Adam Clyde. Oh, yeah, right. Okay. And people got a man to him. Yeah.

This is Survivor, people. You've got to assume that there's something going on behind everything. thing, you know? And Zander on my season gave up his grilled cheese for Erica, because Eric, he doesn't eat, he's paleo. So, or I don't know if he's still paleo. At the time, he didn't eat any of the grilled or cheese. And I, for me, what's the grilled? The bread? Yeah. Which, okay, no, we're not, we're not going to get into the paleo diet. We got to stay focus. But I will say, for me, it added to my perception of, Xander's always pretending to be this nice guy,

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and Stephen was wondering like could that potentially be going on with Rizzo where people are like eh right like Rizzo with an idol but what I pushed back on that I said no that we see people constantly talking about we have to flush Rizzo's idol right and that to me I think is the key difference because I've obviously been thinking about the same thing as well and I think that really is the key difference that we're certainly seeing players in the game saying that it's important to get Rizzo's idled out in a way that I don't perfectly remember what's shown in the episodes, but I don't remember that being a big feature of the episodes of Survivor 41. It wouldn't necessarily have been something that people were talking about with me so much

because it's kind of on the Xander side. Well, Leanna really wanted to get him out with the idol, but she was pretty much the only one that was like super motivated for that. So I think what you have with Rizzo is, again, it's threat level is non-binary, you know, like so many things in life. And, you know, I think it's clearly, clearly Savannah is a higher target than Rizzo. Like, I think there's, we can tell that there's a drop up there because they're not like, we see people keep saying what we want to do is flush the idol and get Savannah out.

Like that seems to be the order of priorities where the idol, it's like Savannah, idle, Rizzo or something like that. But clearly Rizzo and the idol is a big enough threat that it's at least the second choice of things that they're trying to do at all times. So, yeah. Yeah, I think it's probably not as straight. forward as he's got no chance and that's why he's ending up with the idol but i think clearly the people that every week decide it's not that important to take out rizzo aren't as afraid of him or at least

think they're working with him like juan and sage maybe think they have the riso option yeah that's really so interesting that i never really thought about that of trying to parse the idea of the idol and rizzo where it feels like that players they they don't like that he has the idol but if he didn't have the idol, would they even be thinking about Rizzo at all? Right. And I think not that much. And I think that's why this keeps happening. Because it's not like that worth it to them, it feels like to bank everything on, we're going to do this because that's so important that even if the secondary thing happens, like it's clearly not that high of a priority. Right. And then, you know, you have the other thing where this is kind of what I'm saying about the Rizzo edit. Again, like I think he's definitely

doing a lot of things really good. But there are some things. Like, We've heard people say, you know, he's so cocky, right? There's also, there was that little moment where Blue Sophie said just like really offhanded to Rizzo and Spina, you don't have Juan and Sage, by the way. Do you remember that in last night's episode? And I thought that was like so amazing of like, I think in the split tribal episode, obviously it worked out for Rizzo, but I think there was a lot of other things happening that Rizzo didn't know about between the dynamics of what was going on between, you know, MC and Sophie

and the, you know, hinky vote and all that. And so it's like, he thinks, I think he thinks that he's doing everything amazing. And like, that's why he is having so much success. And I think he's doing a lot of stuff really good and a lot of other stuff is happening also. And I think it's not all about every, you know, I think there's some cracks in the Rizzo game

that I think people are like, Savannah, she's a killer. Rizzo, he's kind of a goofy, goof guy. It's very hard to really parse that. And that's why I was pushing back on Stephen who wanted to give Rizzo the fishy last week. And I felt like that maybe it was more a Savannah week to give it to her because I felt like that she shows up. And then really, that's when things really fall apart for that side. But was Rizzo really pushing all the right buttons last week or did the other side just fall apart once Savannah showed up where they had that plan where, okay, we're going to put our votes onto Rizzo. And if he doesn't play his idol, then on the tiebreaker, we'll vote out Jouan.

And that's where things really started to fall apart in terms of like MC talking to Jawan and then like, well, who's, who's doing what? But if they would have just said, okay, we're going to just vote out Rizzo tonight. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I think that's the thing. I think that would have worked. Right.

I think there's, it definitely would have worked because we know he wasn't playing the idol. Like I think that they're getting so caught up in what is the perfect. secondary plan for if he plays the idol and then that and then they get all their fighting on what's the other thing we want to do and then they just start doing that thing but like yeah they easily if joan knows that sophie's putting a vote on him like there was some way to do a different vote split you know throw i i can't remember the exact numbers but like throw one vote if if uh yeah just tell mc no you put your vote on sophy like there was some other way to do that besides oh just we can't even put any votes on rizzo we have to focus on this mc

Sophie situation, right? Yeah. And I don't think Alex was urgent in any way at all. I have to say that that's quite, yeah. Do you think it was a mistake to take out Alex from that side? I think especially knowing, and I don't know how much they knew this, but the fact of, I mean, they did know that they didn't include Stephen and Christina. And I think it was an absolute mistake to blindside those people unless you're like,

we are a hundred percent going back with the Rizzo thing. If you're not saying we're on team Rizzo Savannah now, I don't think you blindside Steve. Like they took out Alex. They blindsided Stephen and Christina. So now they have to work with Rizzo and Savannah. And I guess they think yellow soap is still with them. Yeah, it's kind of bizarre.

It's a little bizarre. It's like what's the overall scheme? So I think regardless of how important Alex was, I think blindsiding Christina and Stephen was something that should be done with like high intention, you know? Yeah. And this is dangerous ground to try to like see things that aren't necessarily in the edit. But if we see that Sage and Yellow Sophie also are, have some kind of a bond,

like the show is really showing us that Rizzo and Savannah are doing all the work of pulling yellow Sophie over. But I feel like that there is at least some reason to believe that Sage and Yellow Sophie had hit it off from when Sage was tribe swapped with Yellow Sophie. And if Yellow Sophie is maybe doing some work with, say, like, hey, vote, like, I'm with these guys, vote with, like, they don't have the numbers, vote with us, like, let's vote out. And Alex is talking so much crap about Yellow Sophie. This is going to be great.

I think that there's a possibility that maybe Yellow Sophie is also helping to bring along Sage and by proxy, Joanne. I definitely, you know, could see that. But then again, why not say Stephen, Christina, it turns out Alex is this huge threat for us right now.

Like, would they have been so, if they know that Joanne and Sage are not doing the Rizzo plan, are they so all in on Alex that they're going to go against it? You know what I mean? I think that's to me the thing that is the biggest problem.

with that. Well, I think that if you, now, you've told, Stephen told Sage about Christina's idol. Now, if you tell Christina and Stephen about that, there's a possibility that Christina's like, oh, oh, really? Okay, I'm playing the idol for Alex tonight. Another perfect reason. We know Christina has an idol. Why are you blindsiding the person with the idol? What's she going to do next week? Like, you know what I mean? I see that. But it's like, okay, so you're going around your ally so that she doesn't play an idol to save this person that you don't even care. Like, let her burn the idol on Alex. And let me just like reiterate again because I see this in the comments sometimes of that I this is a theory of that is our yellow Sophie and Sage and they're not necessarily getting as much of a rich edit as some of the other people in the season.

Maybe we're just not not seeing that relationship and more credit is being given to other people for bringing yellow Sophie in. I buy that for sure. And yellow Sophie is so devastatingly underedited, especially. for their person. She's been so fun. I mean, but it's just always so a fun, it's like Brett from Samoa, all of a sudden someone appears

and they're the biggest challenge threat ever. We need to get them out. He's not Mike Tyson. He's Brett. She's not the Terminator. She's Yellow Sophie, you know. So anyway,

yeah, I think that's so possible. And I think Yellow Sophie is doing amazing work. I mean, it was a really good. I think there's definitely something of when you see your survivor life flashed before your eyes. You do get that clarity, right?

And we see, so blue sophie navigating the game so well i think definitely like having all those uh the times on the disaster tribe contributes to that yellow sophie clearly realized something was up you know um and and just to say in that scene where so yellow sophie comes back from the tribal the split tribal and she says she says i feel like everyone's surprised to see me the only person who says something is juan juan juan juan says i'm sorry you feel that way like joan you were were with her. Yeah.

Yeah. You can like, Joanne could have said, of course not Sovi. That's why we all unanimously voted with you. I mean, at least that. I guess he probably didn't want to piss off the other people,

but it's like you can't. I think Joana is like, and I think I was guilty of this. He's trying to have it all. He wants to have everyone. He wants to have everyone feel good about him. I can, oh,

I won't, you know, maybe I don't come for yellow Sophie because I don't want to piss off Christina. You just voted out MC. So it's like, you know, you got to,

you got to make people mad. survivor yeah and i didn't like something that stephen said in the episode where he's talking with sage about uh things and and he he i'm trying to make sure that i have this right but he talked about how that okay i want to uh share with sage that uh she has the idol and it's all about like game awareness he said and he's like he's like yeah that's see and it's that lack of game awareness that shows when so when sophie came back and was mad that like we didn't expect for her to come back like that's her lack of game awareness showing it's like hold on no that's you guys are making a mistake and she's blocking it that's not that's not her lack of game awareness right and in fact

it was game awareness that she realized that everyone was having a really weird reaction to her coming back so you know i totally agree i thought that was bizarre perhaps she had a lack of game awareness to not see initially that she was at the bottom, but she's got the LASIC. She's seeing clearly, you all are having the lack of game awareness to not realize that you are making her mad. Yes, totally. And again, they just lost a number from their original tribe. Like, that's key time.

Let's bring in Yellow Sophie, who is also the only, like, challenge opponent to Savannah, who's supposedly the person you really want off. Yes. And let me also just add to this that I think that that side of things really did botch things with Yellow Sophie because there was a secret scene and I, and bad on me that I didn't get a chance to watch it, but I think I got the gist of it. So they did the, they released the school yard pick. Oh, I saw that. And in the schoolyard pick, I believe Christina was one of the captains and she doesn't pick yellow Sophie. And I think that Yellow Sophie is annoyed about this.

I'm like, hey, I'm like, why wouldn't you pick me? I'm, I'm killing it in the challenges. Sam or Brandon, can you could just confirm that I have that right and I'm not just putting out misinformation? Which, by the way, we've got 90 minutes. Like, let's see stuff like that. Like, that's so, that is clearly an important part of the dynamic. Like, well, then you got to cut something.

What are you going to cut? What do you want to cut from the episode? We could just watch these challenges, way, you know, way quicker, you know? Just cut a couple minutes out of the challenge. Yeah. How many ring toss, toss chances do we need, you know? Wait, I had some. to say about, oh yeah, going back even to the split tribal vote. Just remember that the whole

thing started with Sophie, yellow Sophie says, I'm going to put a safety vote on Joanne. So Sophie thinks Joanne is dispendable to her. She tells MC, MC feels that Joanne is not expendable to her and tells Joanne, and ultimately, Joanne votes for MC and keep Sophie. And that's not correct in my opinion. Like your key, like the, the reason all this quote unquote chaos started is that MC was like doing you a solid. Sophie finds you expendable. Like why, you know, I don't understand that outcome. I just feel like we're, they have all the power and therefore they feel that they get to make these decisions, which they do. But when you make the decisions, you got to got to get to make the right decisions, you know? Right. There comes a point when you

need to throw your lot in with one side and you can't be going back and forth too much. Right. And I think it is the Will Wall problem. Yes. The pendulum. The pendulum. Yeah. But he at least knew he was doing the pendulum. That's what I'm kind of curious about of like of Joanne and Sage.

Like yeah, they're really are they're playing the middle. I mean I had somebody to say decisions. Yeah. Like what's their end game? What are they rooting for? Who do they want to go to the end with? Are they on the same page with who the third person is in their final three? Is it Stephen? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I don't know. Because I haven't seen Joanne talk to Stephen in like four episodes.

Yeah, right. I mean, maybe they just think that they're so, because they are so dominant now, it doesn't really matter who the other person is. They assume that they'll be able to get Savannah and Rizzo out along the way. I don't know. I mean, I think it, oh, I was going to say, I think it's the classic, like, that plan is too boring. like focusing on the idle

having the idle flush as your main goal is not as interesting as like focusing on well who are we getting out in the backup plan of it you know what I mean and it's like oh Rizzo of course we know we need to get rid of Rizzo but that's like you know what I mean that's not it's not tantalizing in the way of ooh there's this new thing I thought of

that there's this Alex guy and he's in the middle and like you know like I don't know maybe there was more to that than we saw also because like Alex made that joke and everyone laughed And clearly there was a, you know, a narrative of Alex is this really middle guy that even Alex knew about. So I don't know. Yeah. You're right.

Maybe it was something that had come up at tribal council of, you know, is Alex, somebody who has been playing in the middle too much. And, you know, because he does address it in, I would say like, well, this was totally made up by the edit. But it does. He even himself brings it up. Right. Right. Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, yeah. I'd love to talk about Alex and Sof, because this relationship was probably the most important relationship in the show through the first four episodes, where they come out of that and it's like, hey, we are number ones. And we're sort of like, okay, this is like our Malcolm and Denise. They have survived this. And this is going to be a very important relationship. Even like Ricard and Shan are the two people who come away from Owa and that while they are not necessarily, you know, going to go to the end together, it's an important relationship for the show. But really after those first four episodes, we really just, I think we see them have one conversation on the beach. And it's like, oh, hey, you remember we went to, you remember me from high school? oh yeah yeah Alex right yes yes right well I mean and I think this is the thing it's there they weren't Malcolm Denise they weren't Ricard and Shan who those people were all like

we are number one allies or at least I mean Chan everybody was her number one ally but Ricard included we all know that if Alex hadn't had the idol it would have been Sof and Jeremiah who's our final tour that's what that's what it seemed like from the blue chive right Like, Alex and Sof was made by Sof's self-preservation. Yeah. Right? And at the end of, yeah. Yeah.

So I'm trying to think of like a parallel for this. But really that Alex had his number one was Jake. Right. And then also Sof was like, okay, my number one is Jake. And they sort of like were linked by this mutual number one who then got taken away. and so and then they were sort of like by proxy okay we are left with each other but without Jake that he was the glue between them yep no absolutely absolutely and like yeah I would say that this is like a it doesn't work with three people as well but it was like that you know Jake was the Carrie Bradshaw and that you know it would be like okay are Miranda and Samantha hanging out without Carrie? right i thought you were going to say big and the other guy like if they it's not necessarily a love triangle because because the love triangle you're you're sort of like rivals competing for the same

person whereas like when it's like this friend group but everybody there's like the one friend in the middle you could do with Seinfeld also like are are george and elaine hanging out ever too much when jerry's not around right and when it comes to it they're going to self-preservation in the next situation, right? Or like new friends come along. Clearly new friends came along that Sophie clicked with way more. And I don't know that we saw the same for Alex. She got her own spin off. Right. She's Frazier. She's off and she's having a great time with her new friends. Right. Did you catch also they really, okay, Alex has the episode title, right? Or no, sorry, Rizzo has the episode title about Alex, right? If you're loyal to everyone, you're loyal to all,

you're loyal to none. Sof says at some point, you got to be loyal to someone. You got to like, or something about Savannah and I think there really there was a dichotomy where I feel like every conversation you saw with Alex you could feel that he was a little swirmy, a little, little play in the middle. You could feel that he was

kind of, you know, vacillating around. Sof is actually really doing that as well but she has that thing of making you feel like you're really with her in that way. Yeah, she's really good at it. Yeah, that's right. She's just better at it. She's really good at where he is, I think just is very social.

And I think that, like, he can go to the cocktail party and he can like, oh, hey, how are you? And he's smiles. And I feel like that so her power is like, yeah, I have nothing, but I'd work with you. Like, you're like, like, I'm cool. I'm cool with you, but I have nothing. You know, I'm just looking for a way in. I'm just like, I don't have, look at me. I'm from the old tribe.

There's, I have nobody left that nobody wants to work with me. Like, I'm the on the outs with Rizzo and Savannah that they don't really. I was just a number for them and she's really good at putting herself in a position of not necessarily of weakness but she's I'm not a threat like I'm not winning these challenges I'm not somebody that's really tapped in but I can we could build something little do they know she actually has great relationships she actually has the most powerful advantage in the game and she's not telling anybody so. So she's done really great work to sort of like make herself seem small and non-threatening and keep her threat level really low while she's actually quite threatening. Yes, yes. I think that's it completely. Like, Alex is doing a schmooze.

Like, it feels that way, you know? And she is doing an amazing job of you don't even realize that she's doing that, you know? Yeah. And it's so, I think it's epic that moment where Savannah and where Rizzo's like, you know, we're the three of us and Savannah has an extra. vote and we have an idol and we're the most powerful trio in the game and sof just sits there does not add out of the other thing that they have and i just think that that's so good that's that self-preservation instinct you really need right but yeah sof actually learned another secret in

this episode she found out that savannah is actually not in marketing or is well or is in marketing but before that was in news. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. I, yeah.

I mean, okay, I was trying to think of a parallel of what is the equivalent of you tell someone a meaningless secret and it makes you, makes them trust you.

And I was wondering, the thing that came to my mind was Corey Whartonberger having the secret that Zach is his brother. My brother was on Survivor 40, too. Yeah. But I couldn't remember.

I think even that did cause some people to distrust. him a little bit. So I think that, okay, I'm a, I'm a filthy hypocrite because I did lie about my profession. I said that I, I said that I was a research assistant and I was a PhD student doing the same thing. I kind of slanted it. I slanted it. Okay. But did you reveal that on the island? No. I did not. I think once you're doing it, well, I don't know. I mean, I think it was, it clearly, it worked in that moment. But I think we see that people don't trust Savannah. And I do think that when you have a lie, even a meaningless lie, if you are keeping something, you are being

sketchy. Like, Xander told us he was a business student and he's actually a comp size student and that wouldn't have changed my impression of him at all. But it did sometimes feel like he was lying about stuff. Okay. But I feel like that the relationship between Sof and Savannah, where I think that Sof, other than Rizzo, is like the one person that does not seem threatened by Savannah. And Sof is an entrepreneur, and I don't think that she necessarily feels like that Savannah is a person that, like, threatens her at all. And so Savannah then reveals something to somebody who already feels good about Sof, or already feels good about Savannah. And it seems to deepen that bond. And now I think Savannah's like, oh, I feel like I can trust Sof more. And sof is like feeling

possibly better about Savannah. I think it's the type of thing where it works with your allies and makes your allies trust you more. But if it was somebody, if she went and told this to Sage, I knew it.

I knew she was hiding something. This is so Savannah that she's like has all these secrets. She's not telling us anything. So I feel like if somebody already has a negative opinion about you, any information, you know, the cognitive dissonance is like

It says that C. Yep. No, I think that's really true. I mean, but also just to say, we don't know how this is going to resolve. Does Sof at some point say, hey, Rizzo, I think like you and Savannah aren't as close as you think you are because she told me this thing that she didn't tell you. Like, you are creating, you're creating a thing. Sof at any time could be like, if she, if, you know, we're getting deep into the game and she doesn't want to sit next to Savannah in the final three, this can be in the arsenal. It's not going to matter that much.

But like you said, it is like a thing. I don't know. I hear that. I mean, you know, it does make her feel close. Like, could you have told Tiffany that actually I'm a PhD student? Probably. But I didn't need to because I was telling Tiff so much other like deep personal stuff. Like, you know, like I think at the end of the day, so if already was with Savannah, I mean, people do use those, you know, secrets and game secrets as signs of relationship.

But also if you're opening up with your heart about real stuff. stuff that also achieves that. You know what I mean? I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I want to talk about. And I think Tiff probably it would have been fine, but she also might have told some people that, you know, she could have used it.

She could have used it. Okay. Let's talk about in the challenge. We saw Stephen really start to open up and tell us all his facts about space. Did you learn anything new about space? I thought that was crazy the thing that he said. There was, did we get more, there was really one that stuck in my head, his opening thing, was that, right?

It was that if you took all of the... I think it was that if you took all of the planets in our solar system and lined them up, it wouldn't take all the space between the Earth and the Moon. I was like... Yeah, that tracks. That makes sense.

Does it? I don't know that... I mean, I guess it does. It's right. I mean, I guess Jupiter, they say, is really big, but, yeah, it's like... Like, you know, I feel like that Mars is smaller than Earth. Like, I don't...

I feel like that the moon is, like... But the moon is, like, so close, you know? It's like, It's right there. I guess it's close-ish, but I feel like it's more than like a few. I guess really Jupiter and Saturn, they say are really big. So I don't know how big. I think that that would have been the thing.

But like, he's like, okay. I bought that. You know, it was something I'd never thought about it. Let's put that way. Had it hadn't considered the relative. But do you feel like that in one episode, we go from like zero to a million in that all now Stevens, everything he talks about is space metaphor.

And now to the point where even at tribal council, he's like, do you want a space a story or a kangaroo story? Yeah, I really wish he had the kangaroo one prepared because we did. And this is not. Don't bluff. Don't bluff that you have a kangaroo story if you don't have one. We went from no science space facts to, dare I say, too many. Too many. We're just to cut them off.

I was surprised that that was in the episode like, all right, all right, Stephen. Enough because we got to listen. Well, Stephen tells his in more of a like dad. joke energy than the Christian hubikity, like college professor organic-y thing. Like, not that it's not organic from Stephen, but it's a bit more performance-y.

Yeah. I think Stephen mistimed it where the famous Christian monologues where he goes into everything talking about like macarons and the Rubin sandwich and all these things, this is hours into a challenge. It seems like that we went to Stephen that it was not even 10 minutes in

and he started doing all the space facts and like Jeff's not even tired. Jeff's not even looking for a break yet. Right. No, he was like, this is my show, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Like a challenge is starting. Okay, here's my tight 10.

Here's my TED talk real quick. I just find it really impressive though that he didn't drop because I think like to me all the times where I lost on a survivor challenge is when you start thinking about something else. Like I think the only way to do it is like the... Just thinking about that. So I think it was, it's impressive.

It's not the skill I have. The individual immunity that you won. That was an endurance challenge, right? Yeah. Was it balancing the block? Famously the shortest time of that challenge, but they did make it harder. Okay. There was a lot of discords at the time.

I don't know if you're walking in this. Yeah. And it was like that. What was the discourse? Well, it was the, okay, so it was the one where you've got the block on your head and you're basically doing a calf freeze. In, I guess in, in, in Kagiyan, I think, Tasha and Redmond do it for like Raymond. Raymond. I was really trying to get

the new name. He can say it Ryman. Rhyman. They do it for like two hours or something. And I want it in like seven minutes or something. But they made the distance way bigger. I was doing a way harder. It's like the new era. It's shorter but it's harder. Exactly. Exactly. It's faster. But it's more intense. The two that seem relevant to me are that one where I was, yeah, I was just like, don't think about anything, don't think about anything. Just like fully like don't move a muscle.

And then the one before that, it was the one where you have to stack, which was, this was like the mergatory immunity thing where you had to stack the blocks into a thing and then put the flag in the middle. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And that one, I was killing it. I was in first the whole time.

And then when it came to the flag, the second I thought, oh my God, I might win. Then I knocked the block over. You know, you got to. Another, that was a foot challenge that you did. And famously, the Baylor Wilson was the first person to win that challenge when they did it. Now, they had another, like, been a lot of feat challenges so far on this season in the individual portion of the game. And so this was a challenge. And, you know, we talked about Parvite's two wins earlier.

Did you watch Australian Survivor versus the world? Of course. And I loved it so much. It was amazing. Yes. And Parvety, this was one of the. immunity challenges that she won for her tribe

oh yes right was that the one I actually don't remember exactly when this one I'm pretty sure and please fact check me if I'm wrong about this so it was in the I think it was it was a tribe challenge but maybe did somebody get was it not the one maybe both

tribes were going to tribal council and you got individual immunity yes yes because her and cast her and she made it she made the deal and she's like hey let me have this one and the next time I'll let you have the endurance challenge immunity. Right, right. There's also in Australian Survivor Heroes Villains. There's also an epic. There's like a variation on it where Liz and Shawnee are like holding the thing together. And that one's quite memorable to me too. Yeah. You know what? I feel like that we don't ever do these types of challenges in the pre-merge.

Like the challenge that we did with the split tribal council, like why don't we ever do that as a because we need three tribes but why don't we do that for individual or for tribal immunity? Yes. And I think that we used to do this. We used to be a proper country. Yes. I mean, I do think, I mean, it's

again, it's a, everyone's saying this, but it just does get repetitive that their structure the same. And you know, as someone who cares. Everything's a race. Right. And as someone who really cares about, you know, the equity of these things, it's like those first challenges, they always stack them on you've got to lift,

heavy things. And like that's the skill that is the key thing of whether you're good at challenges or not. And no, so many challenges on Survivor don't involve heavy lifting or things like that that are much more biased towards men. And so like I do think, yeah, having more endurancey things would mix up, you know, the pre-wage so much. I mean, not to get too much into Australian Survivor versus the world. And this is still even lifting heavy things of like, okay, everybody has a sandbag. And then the last person who has a sandbag up. And but we used to have things like this in the pre-merge of like the challenge where the two tribes are running around the racetrack and I forget what that's called yeah but that you that you could do other things

that aren't just like a race that end with a puzzle like there were things where that it would be like a group endurance challenge yeah I think that's fun I think I think it's just it's just fun to have variance you know yeah yeah because they love these endurance challenges in the post merge like why don't you why don't you mix it up a little bit and and and do one or two in the pre-merge. Yeah. And it's epic because you really are seeing, you know, there's some element of how bad do you want it, you know, which also true or not true. Like, the challenge that I, on the episode I went out of it, I did really want it, but I

knew I was never going to. Yeah. And I think that probably the answer is, well, Rob, because there's three tribes. You can't have, you know, if like one tribe drops out of the challenge, well, now they're going to tribal council. And then so what do you do with the other two is just like, are they just keeping going going for reward? What's the point?

that they could do that or you know or two you know two people get voted out i guess we're going to have to have that in survivor 50 sometimes right so like two child two tribes vote so yeah listen i just think anything where you come up with a limitation like oh you can't because three tribes these are some very creative people they can figure it out you know evy you brought up survivor 50 how come there's no survivor 41 representation on survivor 50 you're telling me rob wasn't it the dawn of the new era you really you would think so obviously I'm bummed about it like for myself but also just for my whole season like I think I personally feel Shan Shan that that's a big miss shan should have been there to me she's well not for anything I think that there's only one person from the first four seasons

of the new era yeah and that's really sad there were some great seasons there's no one from 44 right which is I think it is crazy if you would have told us in like 2023 hey hey Rob you know the last two years of Survivor. You just watched the next time they do an All-Star season, they're going to bring back one person. Literally. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, like, like, oh, I mean, Carolyn?

Like, no. Right. Right. Right. I think, I mean, I do think it's sad. I really wish. I mean, especially given how samey, same, the new era has been, I think really could have used a new era all stars in like 46, 47 or something.

High tights 2020. Yeah. And, you know, and I, okay, here's what I have to say. because I think that if someone from my season was on Survivor 50, I think that would be prompting a lot more rewatches of the season. That's the thing that makes me, you know, the saddest aside from, you know, my own personal interest of it would have been fun to play again. And I think we need to do some, some rewatches of those seasons nonetheless,

because I think they're way better than people think. And by their way better, I adjust me in my season. I think people like 42 and 44 and 43 is whatever. So I think people underrate my season. surprisingly, shockingly. But isn't that what you want to live, Evie, of that, like, aren't you, like, can't you see Survivor 41 as being, like, what is it, like, the Gabon or the Vanuatu where, like, like, three years from now, you know,

that they're asking, like, hey, what's your hottest take? It's like, actually, and, like, four survivors, like, Survivor is a really good season. It's really good. I feel like, yes, yes, this is the correct take. Yeah. Well, I would love that, but I do think that involves people thinking about it again, which maybe, you know, they will. You're on your way. Yeah. It's happening. I just think think about, think about, you know, you're watching, you're watching Survivor 49. You're like, man, Jeff said that's a twist, but they all knew that there was going to be a split tribal here. Damn, that's not that interesting. Go back to when it was a huge surprise. Every element, the number of days, the food, shock upon shop. The door glass. The do or die. These amazing staples that we need in Survivor, like the hourglass. Everybody's like, what?

What's happening? Yeah. Yeah. And that was fun. Jeff's talking to the camera. Yeah, which I didn't know that. You know, that was a surprise for me. The game within the game?

Yeah, GWG. Like, come on. We need that. Okay. Yeah. Did you see that they announced Survivor 50s, we have a three-hour premiere, Fee? I did see that. did see that. I mean, it's Survivor, you know. I believe them. I believe them they've got three

hours of content with those 20 people. Does it feel a little long? Yes. Do you think that we will have one vote out or multiple voteouts in the first? No, I think, because it's, and I was not, I'll be honest. I, you know, when you're, when you, I wasn't tracking the Survivor 50 pre-news so much because I, you know, knew that I was not going to be part of it. And that made me sad. And so remind me, there's 20, it's 24. 24. 24, yeah, 24. Okay, so then it has, I mean, I think that's probably what, you know, maybe they're going back to the old school, like basically two episodes in the first episode. Oh, maybe you think it'll be two episodes the first night.

You know what I mean? Or like, not literally, but like it could be too round. Because Survivor 41, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe it's a two hour premiere and two people go home. We have two tribal councils. True. Yes, true. And so I wonder, you know, could you could you potentially have one, you know, one challenge and two tribes, two tribes both go to tribal council. And is that what they did in Survivor 41? Yes, that is what they didn't survive for a minute.

And I guess, yeah, no, it has to be that way because it doesn't really help them to have two rounds in a row. But also Survivor Winners at War, the first episode was there is a challenge. There's a tribal council. Natalie gets voted out. And then we get basically like the second episode where there's another challenge and then Amber gets voted out. Right. So we have basically two tribal councils. Right.

two, it's basically almost like, it's two episodes in one night. We'll see. That's a, that's a February question. Yeah. I mean, I do feel as much as I hated it of being in the first challenge and knowing that two tribes had to vote someone else else had to vote someone out, it really does. The stakes of the three tribes is much higher when you do that than, oh, two, like most of these people don't have a vote for so long.

You know what I mean? So I think, I think inducing that element does not. make it more stressful in the good, good survivor stress monster way. Okay. Remember the monster? Yeah. Juwan's still talking about the monster.

Survivor's a horror movie. That's right. We're still in act too. Right. Yeah. Okay. We're going to bring in some questions for Evie, but let me just thank our sponsor

for this episode of the podcast, our friends over at Mantha Sleep. Now, Evie, how was your sleep on Survivor? Not great. Not great. Not great. No, it's horrible. Could only be helped by the Manta Sleep Mask, which is that the game is fluid and the mask is too.

It's adjustable. It is completely blackout. Now, are you part of a, are you a napper? I'm not, but I'm a huge sleep mask person. I'm actually quite intrigued. I'm going to, I'm going to check this out. I could use a new one, honestly. Evie, you could do, look, you move the, you have eyes that are far apart from each other.

You can move the things far away. It's complete. You make it your own. They don't care. Do it every you want. The only way to sleep on Survivor is with the buff over your eyes, in my opinion. So if you had a had a Manta, it's go. Yeah.

And of course, it is perfect for the side sleepers too. So Black Friday is coming up. How about Blackout Friday over at Manta's sleep? Get 10% off your order with the promo code R-H-A-P. 49. We asked the listeners for some questions for Evie. And let's see. How about Allison wants to know, were you ever asked to share science facts during a challenge on Survivor? So we know if you were doing the challenge you wouldn't want to. But what if you were out? And they were like, Evie, quick, hit us with some Neanderthal facts.

That's great. I mean, I could have produced a lot of Neanderthal facts, but I probably wouldn't have because I was trying to downplay that academic situation. I was really trying to be, I'm just a fun gay person out here. Don't even think too hard about anything else. And that didn't work. So I could have probably talked more about Neanderthalz. Did anybody have fun, interesting facts on Survivor 41? You know, Zander had a lot of, like in our first tribal council,

he told this like crazy metaphor story about, I feel like it was like ancient Rome. released snakes to get out the rats or something like and it was yeah yeah right uh it was it was it was a whole thing so i think i think you could have had that who else would have had good facts i mean it wasn't really a fact fact oriented because you it's like danny probably could have talked about football a lot but he wouldn't you know uh shan't people were talking about god but not yeah but isn't that like a thing like maybe that you want to like tell people what you're job is. And I asked this to Nate in the exit interview. I said, Nate, did you ever think about

maybe you should have told people about your profession? He's like, you know what? In hindsight, yeah, I was so worried about, oh, they're not going to give me the money. But then all of my good stories are about making movies. I couldn't tell any funny stories that I had. And so it really made me more disconnected from people. Right. That's what I really think. I mean, and that's why I liked my little lie where I basically still was talking about my exact same workplace and my exact same thing. I just gave myself a different role in the system. But like, yeah, I did one night tell my whole like experiment that I was working on to, you know, to the tribe. And that was fun because you just need to, yeah, you need to be able to talk about yourself. I think honestly, the thing that

is the most equivalent that we would do for long stretches of time on Survivor 41 was just classic Survivor just decadently described the meals that we were going to have, which you might think, I know something, are you a person who likes to talk about food on Survivor? Oh, I hate it. I loved it. It was doing something for me. And I could tell you what all the goss of people like to eat for breakfast. You know, and anybody have anything really weird? Well, we're talking a lot about Zander, but again, the paleo introduces some things.

So I think he would have a sweet potato ego type situation with like, like savory stuff on top of it. He would make a waffle out of sweet potatoes. Yes. I think it might be a product, product that exists. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. weird stuff like that but you know you're just you're just talking for a long time yeah you totally

undersold the sweet potato ego yeah yeah exactly zander candy yeah that's that's that'sander candy yeah doesn't sound bad i'll be i like sweet potatoes there was something weird about it that i'm not forgetting maybe like because there was something very combo with the the sweet potato ego that that seemed weird but i guess i would forget okay so cue dog wants to know i'd love to hear evie talk about why playing in the middle is so difficult in the new era. Hmm. Hmm. Do you think it's more difficult in the new era than in the prior eras? Hmm.

I don't really know if there is a middle so typically in the new, like I feel like that there's not typically two sides. And I think that this has been an unusual. What's interesting about this post merge is that there are two sides. And it is a little bit more of a throwback old school where I don't feel like that there are two sides going back and forth. Like take a look at Survivor 41, for instance. Did you feel like that there were, like, if there's not necessarily two sides, there's

like a big majority, and there's a few people that are on the outs at the merge, and then they're getting picked off, and then somebody's like, whoa, that person is a big threat to win. Let's take them out. And so you're sort of just under the radar, but I wouldn't necessarily say that you're in the middle. You're just going back to, I used to talk about the threats, the nothing. and the losers, like playing the middle

was just like, okay, I'm just a nothing. Nobody's thinking of me as a threat that they are trying to take out or a loser that can't win. Right. I mean, I guess it's like, yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe the most equivalent is like the Tika 3 and Survivor 44

is kind of the middle between. There was a war going on between. There was two sides, yeah. There was two sides. But like, yeah, I think it's a good point in that, I mean, I think the key always when playing the middle is you should not be so obvious that you are playing the middle, right?

I think that's the flaw. Nobody should know you're playing the middle. Right, exactly. And so I think... The jig is up. Once people know you're in the middle. Right. Then you're the middle

and then actually you're not with anybody, which I think is what happened with Alex. It's not so much the middle as much as no one cared that much if he got voted out, right? Whereas Blue Sof has been actually playing the middle to some degree. I mean, she knows what side she's on,

but not everybody else knows what side she's on and she's been getting that kind of middley information so but but people are very invested in her like it wasn't going to work for her to be yeah the key to playing the middle is that everybody has to feel like you're with them right once people like oh no he's not with us he's playing the middle right you know yeah i really remember in um in san juan del sir like john mish like and um and jack they're always like we're in the middle again and it's like that you should that i mean that worked to some degree in that season but it's like If you're saying I'm in the middle, you're saying I'm not really with any of my allies, right?

That's like what Rizzo said. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think, I think that's really the problem. But yeah, it's true that I can't really think of a good, a good, middley person. So I guess it must be one person who played the middle in the new era? Yeah, I'm trying to, like, who is that person? Uh, I mean, I feel like that Andy was trying to do that, but then, he kind of locked in

with one side in Survivor 47 Yeah Is anyone playing the middle in 46 Like Venus was kind of Doing her own thing kind of No I don't think so I don't think everybody was really playing The middle at that point

Yeah Yeah I think it's also there is Yeah again middle Yeah being so clearly identified As the middle not great in general But then yeah Maybe there is something to the shortened timeline Like I just think everybody is

There's a full fluidity in general. So that makes it difficult to, like, be firmly in the middle when the middle is shifting. Again, I think the people playing the middle the most in this game are Joanne and Sage. Yeah. This is from Luke who wants to know, what's your comparison from season 41 of Joanne in season 49? Who's the Joanne from season 41? Who's the Joanne?

I mean, I think Joanne is a really interesting person in J. He's a great character on the show. character. It's like in what degree, you know, towards like which part? There's, let's, I, yeah. It's a really, it's a good question. I'm not immediately coming up with a, with, with, with a analogy because, you know, he's a kind of special, special guy.

I don't know, like him and Sage come together for this beautiful little alliance that's running the game, is that Heather and Erica being the misfits on their original group and then they blindsides. Is he Heather or Erica? It remains to be seen, I guess. Heather has some quirks that are a little sagey. So I might give him the Erica. For example, she loves possums and collecting them. Yes. Does she put them in a jar? I don't know. I think, I don't know, but some might say possums are the blackheads of the animal community. Wow. You got to ask Omer about that.

Yeah. Omer, you're listening. Let us know. Yeah. He's a, I mean, he's a, he's a fun guy.

Like, I think he's, and he's playing an interesting game. I think like he's, there's something a little Deshauny about him to me in that he has a lot of power and is then kind of making some, in my opinion, erratic decisions that is a little Deshauny.

but it's not like at all in the same way where Deshaun is way more, I feel like, overtly charming in a way that Joanne is not. Yeah. Tell me if you think this is an unfair comparison. You brought in Deshawn. I could see

Joanne having a very bad zero vote final tribal council. Ooh. And I think and yeah. Deshawn did get Danny's vote. Yes. Yes. But I could see. Yeah. I could see you want maybe having like a word sality final travel council where he's talking about his game one way

and maybe people are like that's not how it went yeah yeah that's interesting because i mean we see i feel like the thing that was so hard for deshaun right is he he's going into tribal thinking everybody loves him and actually everyone's really pissed off with him and i think that could i mean he knew that some people were pissed off with him but i think he thought that that would kind of fade fade faster i I could see that happening to Joanne where he thinks of himself as playing with everybody and we see that he is like blindsiding people. But I feel that he is, at least in,

I mean, in his confessionals, he's quite clear that he's like, you know, scheming. But I guess so is Deshaun. Yeah, it's all really about how do you think that other people think about. Well, I think here's where there could be the disconnect for Joanne. Because now I feel like that Joanne

in his confessionals is getting a little mustache twirly. He's like, hey, you know, like in the movie, jaws like I'm the shark now and now I hear the music and I'm taking people out left and right. Meanwhile Christina's like oh like I feel so bad for Joanne he doesn't get to eat

Juan take my spot in the reward you go you do this he's like I don't know he's like no no no you do it please I beg I beg of you he's like well I'm not so humble I'm so I'm not great at receiving things and then if he turns around his vote out Christina she's like you

can you believe the nerve of this guy. I gave up my spot. I gave up my cheesecake and blueberries and fried chicken and French fries to this guy. And then he voted me out. Yep. Yep. Similarly, I think that you could imagine a similar thing happening

for Sage, kind of what I was saying at the beginning. If she comes to Final Tribal and is like, I'm this misfit. I was so left out. I was on the bottom. Right. It's like, yeah, you were and then you weren't. And then you really weren't. So it's like, you know. Yeah. And just on top of it in terms of like

MC as a jury voter where MC, I think might be on the jury and is like, hey, Joanne, I told you you were going to get voted out. You turned around and voted me out. I mean, literally. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, it's hard to be the person that has so much blood on your hands. So, but I think you just really, really have to own it. So you have to own it. You can't be sheepish about it. And I worry about Joanne, not necessarily coming in. It was like, listen, I was like the most cutthroat SOB this game's ever seen

and you're damn right I deserve this money. Yeah, yeah. It is really so fun though that Sage and Juan became the power players at this point. Like I just think, wait, are we open on this podcast about who are the 49 people on 50 or no?

We are not. Well, I don't know anything about that. If you know, you know, but you're right. I didn't expect that it was going to go this way. Are Juwan and Sage sort of like victims of their own success where sort of like that they were sort of like at the peak of their powers when they were the overlooked underdogs of the season? But then they really have not known how to have prosperity in the game. And now the game flipped over. They're on the top and they're like, we did not expect to be here.

We do not know how to do this. We, this is a first day for us in charge and we don't know how to play this. Yep. And I think, I think, I think they popped maybe too soon. Like, I think if they, if they had this like flip moment, you know, final seven or something, you know, then, then they could retain that lovable underdog thing. Yeah. But I think especially now that they've, they blindsided people on both sides. They big move too early.

Yeah. I mean, a classic survivor pop. I classic, classically too soon. And I feel like the new era is like, well, you gotta wait till final, final seven, final six. Like, it wasn't, I, not that taking Alex out was a big move. That's what that wasn't the big. Like, I think that the Nate thing was the big move that they made.

Right, right. And that was, and that was good. I think that was, that was, if you're going to do that, do that. But then you got to say, I see, okay, I'm not as sure about that. Because I do think that Nate had a good, a really good social thing. that could have been more of a problem than we give then we are maybe accounting like I think he had a potential you could have seen him really getting in with Christina and Stephen like I don't know I think I think he could have worked it I think he could have worked it I don't think it was a

horrible I've been trying to find out like who called in the hit on Nate and in my exit interview with Alex today I that I feel like that Alex was definitely taking some ownership over that Nate was saying Alex's name as a person that needed to go I think that Alex was one of the people that was driving the Nate vote but that once when Nate was still there like I think it was much harder

for Savannah and Rizzo to do the things that they're doing now and they're doing great great underdog stuff like you know this is what you want to see from the underdogs and so yeah it's just not how I expected it to go and I think that I think that's fun

but I don't know I it's hard to say the road not not travel to Not shocked that Alex in his interview said it was his idea. We might need to talk to a few more people. Okay. You think that revision is history. But I just think that they blew that vote because that if you don't vote for Nate and they could have hit Rizzo, they could have hit Savannah.

They hit one of those other two people. What does this season look like if Savannah goes home at that tribal council? And now all of a sudden the other side is Rizzo, Nate, and Sof. Sof is not sticking around to work with Rizzo and Nate. Yeah, I mean, no, it's a good point about the dynamics of that. Like, and I don't remember.

Or blindside Rizzo with Idol. And then it's going to be Savannah, Nate, and Sof. Yeah. I mean, I think you had people like Christina who I feel like she was talking about the Nate move, right? And it's like, for her, it's so obvious. It will always be these two sides.

It will always be yellow versus red. We take out our red. And then next week we just take out the next red. No big deal. You know, we've got the numbers now and it's fine, but you have, if you're got, yeah, if you're not going to cut the head off the snake, you got to cut the head off the snake. I mean, that's what you're saying, right? But if you're not, you got to focus on that snake again.

See, I think that they did cut the head off the snake. I think that you got to cut the middle out of the snake because they're like, you cut the head off the snake. There's still a whole, like, big, like, tail of the snake that's going to be still, like, rattling around. But if you cut off the middle of the snake, now, like, well, you're going to. What is like, you got like a half of snake over here, half a snake over here. It's nothing.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I like that. I like that. I mean, okay. Down the middle. Yeah.

And I guess they were not expecting Savannah to win two in a row, you know. No. But maybe you should expect that. You know, she's clearly a, you know, a physical threat. Yeah. Sideo, why didn't they just, I mean, I guess they just did want to take Alex out. I'm like, both in this vote and the last vote, why didn't they just make those the backup plans? Like, that's what I don't understand.

Like, if you like. From whose perspective? Tell me what you want to do. I mean, I think Joanne and Sage have the most agency, right? So I think it makes the most sense from their perspective. Why didn't they just do what? Vote for Rizzo? Do a split vote.

Some votes on Rizzo, some votes on Alex. You know, tell people we don't want Sof to be the backup. We want Alex because we want him out more. You know, the thing was, and if they really were okay with that, it's like all the people from the other side were already voting for Alex. No, that's what I'm saying. You could have just all voted for Rizzo. Like, why did they get involved with a backup plan?

Like, okay, we're like, hey, they're voting for Alex. Let's all vote for Rizzo. Big deal. If he plays the idol, then Alex will go home. They'll skin off our nose. Tell Rizzo, you love his, you agree. He's been telling you all day, Alex. You're right, you're right.

Everyone's voting for Alex, but your guys are actually voting for Rizzo. And then he played, you know, because he wants to work with Rizzo. Like, I think that's the truth is like they don't want Rizzo out that bad. Certainly, I think that Jawan has, you know, some affinity for Rizzo. I don't think that Sage does. Agreed. Yeah. I think that Sage might have been a little bit more, I don't want to vote out Sof.

Right. And maybe she was like, I don't care about Alex. Right, right, right. You know, I think that really the thing that's the motivator for Sage is I don't want Savannah in the game. Yes, yes. And that's clear. And again, Savannah being immune has been really great for their alliance. Can I ask you, do you want to weigh in on the like Savannah is a mean girl?

She's mean girl. Yeah. Like, was she mean? I mean, she didn't, she found Joanne annoying. Is that our main evidence? Like, I get, like, she was, yeah, if anything, she was mean to Joanne, but we have, have we seen her be mean to anybody else? Yeah.

I do think that there's something where she has a very polished exterior, right? She seems like she could be. And I think, but again, which is, again, a little bit back to, I think if you, oh, she's a news report. She's a news anchor. That's what we're seeing. It's a news anchor. You know what I mean? And like, I just don't think, I think I understand why people are saying that, but it's not really based in, we've seen a lot meaner people.

Well, maybe you could help me, like, crystallize the thoughts on this. Yeah. I feel like it is something that is gendered in terms of. Yeah, certainly. If Savannah's a man, she doesn't get talked about like this. I think that Savannah comes across and there is a lot of, you know, great material about this about, you know, charisma and charisma is, I believe Vanessa Van Edwards is a person that talks about this of charisma is made up of basically competency and warmth. And I think that Savannah really comes across as she is extremely competent. she's she's sharp she's good in the challenges she wants it but there maybe is not a lot of warmth

from Savannah and I think that maybe oh she's she's mean yeah I mean I think yeah I think the combination of I think also what you're getting at is there's some we we've I feel that that kind of polished exterior kind of yeah leads to potentially a lack of vulnerability that people are feeling. But then we, we've seen her now in this, now that she's on the bottom, we've seen in her individual relationships, her be much more, you know, vulnerable and things like that. Yeah. I, yeah, at the end of the day, I'm like, she's a beautiful woman and she seems like she could have been popular in high school. And that's what, and people pick up on that. And I think, I'll be, I think if she was the dominant force in the game right now, we'd probably, I would probably be more,

I'd be thinking it more too. You know, like, it's just you, she seems like someone who, would be in power and would be in charge. And I think people don't like when beautiful women are doing that. And I think that is, yeah, messed up in our society. But I don't, I don't remember any specific evidence of her being very mean, except not, you know, being annoyed by Juan, which is, that's okay. Yeah. You can be annoyed by people.

I'm very curious to think about how she might do on the jury. Because I feel like that without the warmth, it is warm. something you need to get the votes in the final tribal council so i think it's about the like i i don't know because i think that like we were saying this thing of can you own your game being this key thing and i do feel that you'd rather yes i think warmth and like that type of connection is one way to to build that report with the jury but i think that i can really see her going to the jury guns blazing of like here are all the things that I've done like kind of in that in that uh professional mode a bit and I think it could work I think saying to this jury like like

just owning it of like I was on the bottom and no one wanted to work with me and then I won you know two challenges and blah blah like I think I think she will not probably be doing well I don't know maybe she'll do like if she were to be there maybe she would do some of this like polished stuff that maybe is jarring as an individual relationship, but is actually what you're supposed to be doing on the jury? And I don't know, maybe she will also reveal some of this. It does seem like she's actually struggling emotionally.

Like it's possible that in the, I think I thought the mean girl thing more in the premurge. And I think different traits do come out when you're at the top or at the bottom. When she was riding high. Yeah. And I think it's a good point about that I wouldn't necessarily say that she is really oozing warmth, but she has shown this vulnerability.

And I wonder if that, because I think when you look back, like, just in the new era, when we look back at like the winners, that they, they certainly have competency, but often they have warmth. And you think about the people that have won and they really, even if they don't have like, you know, there's some people that say was there, you know, like Gabler, for instance, okay, was their competency, but there's a lot of warmth, you know, that can, that can win out. And, but if you can have competency and vulnerability, could that, could vulnerability. Could that, could vulnerability. be an apt substitute for a lot of warmth. Yeah, I mean, I really think so. Like, I think, like, you know, in my season, Erica was not the person that most people had, like, a super strong relationship with.

People just also didn't have a really negative relationship with her because they didn't feel, like, that betrayal feeling is worse when you feel that you have a close emotional relationship with someone. In a way that if you're not forming those and you get to the end, you don't have to repair those, you know? So I don't know. And I think, I think if she, I think having some level of vulnerability, too, though, does make you human. So yeah, I think people see what they want to see.

And I think like we don't, I saw the, you saw the interview with Cochran and John Lovett. The whole John Lovett podcast so good. Yes. So good. And I think the thing he was, Cochran said of like, if there are no true villains, we will find villains in more regular people. And I think, like, there were errors of Survivor where you had hot women being really mean to people and they're not here. So you got the closest allegory, you know, is maybe something. Yeah.

I voted most of them out. Good work. Yeah. Except for the one that one. Yeah. Who was very, very warm. Totally. And incompetent.

Okay. Totally. Evie, I know you have to get to wicked. What? Anything else on your mind? I don't know. Let's see. Let me look at my little. Just let us say a little notes. I don't know. I think we got it. I think I'm liking this. I'm liking where we're going. I'm heated, you know? We're heating up. Yeah, this season really is heating up. I do. I just, I love the new era, you know? Like I'm from the new era.

So are you sad if it's ending? Well, I want it to end and change because it's what people don't like is that it has not changed enough. You know what I mean? And so I was honestly hoping that it's like, okay, we reached the end. Now it's a chapter. Now it's just a book. You know? And now we have a new book.

And then we can be like, oh, remember the new era, you know? Yeah. Side note, have you seen that Zoron in his campaigns is all his transition stuff is a new era for New York? He didn't see that. Is that why he had so many new era people in the commercial? I think you can only think it's that Yeah

So I think that there would have been A great marketing thing If they would have called it Survivor 49 End of the New Era Like I think they could have really like It's the end of the new era You have to see how the new era goes out Like I think that they really made a mistake

There to not really Because I think that It took a long time for this season to get going And it was really like 49 It's the one before 50 Like they didn't give people a reason to like sink their teeth into it and it's just like hey it's just the placeholder season but it has really picked up over these last couple weeks and so i've been grateful for that and maybe

survivor 51 dawn of an even newer era you know i really would love to see them come out of the box with something of you know and not like even more newish like uh i don't know like themes are back like right i would i would love i just think they are really creative people. Like, there's so many of the same people that have been working on the show the whole time. They've come up with so much stuff. Like, they must be bored now too, right? Like, they see it. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. You know, themes are back, two tribes, like a throwback. Hourglass. Reverse. Yeah. Yes. That's how the new era ends. We break the hourglass and we go back to the old era. It doesn't even have to be 39 days. Just like, okay,

We've been listening. They smash it and rice falls out. And then it's like, no. Yes. Okay. I love that. What a perfect ending. Yeah.

You wrote it. Okay. All right. Evie, where can people keep up with you? Well, you can find me on Instagram at Evie Jag. And you'll find me if you're, have you ever been to the hearts of reality or now it's over the edge, Rob? No. I just wanted you to say like, and if you care to find me.

look to the southern states. That would have been good. That would have been good. Well, I will be there in Florida. So if you're coming to Orlando, I'll see you there. And I'm fundraising for that event. And also today is Trans Day of Remembrance. So I would be remiss to not point out

that far too many trans people in this country experience violence for just being who they are. It's getting worse. I'm raising money for Point of Pride, which is an organization that gives healthcare and other supplies to trans people. we raised money for it on the Pride of Spoken last year. It's a great cause.

So you can find that on my Instagram. How are you fundraising? So you have a link for that in my bio. So you can go there. It's also shared in my story right now, if you're listening to this right now. And yeah, the money goes to that amazing organization. So you can find that on my bio. And I would really appreciate that for the world.

And yeah, and it's all connected to the over the edge thing in the kind of way that they organize all the fundraisers. Yeah. When is that coming up? It is, I believe it's the weekend of December 5th, that first weekend in Florida. Jake and I are buying tickets from Boston. Okay, I'm looking forward to like, I would like to, we should send a correspondent down there too. It's wild. It's the craziest one.

Will you report on it for us? No, because I can't, you know, I can't tell. You know what I mean? It's like, you got to go. Like, but it's, you get to just hang out with people, you know, like Jerry and Sandra. Could we send Chappelle? Could he go down there? But he's got to keep notes.

Yeah. Well, there's some R-Hap listeners that I know are always there. Atticus, if you're listening. I bet you'll be there. Sure. He's always there. So, that's where some stuff happens, Rob. Yeah.

Yeah. Brandon Donald, are you going there? Let me see. What does he say? He better. I've been pitching it. I've been trying to, there was not enough new era. He left.

He must have to go see Wicked also. Yeah, sure. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say in the comments, as always. And then, of course, I'll be doing the patron Q&A on Friday. Plus, Dawn Meehan coming out on the old school interview. Take care.

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