RHAP: We Know Survivor - Genevieve, Andy, and Sam Talk Operation Italy | Survivor Time Trip

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Genevieve, Andy, and Sam Talk Operation Italy | Survivor Time Trip Watch the podcast on YouTube! The Survivor Time Trip goes deep into one of Survivor 47’s most unforgettable episodes as Rob Cesternino and Mike Bloom reunite with castaways Andy Rueda, Genevieve Mushaluk, and Sam Phalen—the trio behind “Operation Italy.” Survivor Time Trip is back, and this time, the crew unpacks the pulse-pounding moves, improvisational planning, and spy movie-level editing that made this episode an all-time favorite among fans. From the moment Andy, Genevieve, and Sam join forces at the Sanctuary reward—armed with nothing but loved ones’ letters, carbs, and a dash of paranoia—the wheels are in motion for a dramatic blindside. The trio reveal how fake idols were messily crafted with purple paint and tree mail beads, code words like “mushroom pasta” were created for last-minute strategy, and every conversation at camp was carefully choreographed to avoid detection. As tension mounts, Genevieve weighs trusting the alliance or blowing up the entire scheme, while Andy methodically positions himself for jury appeal and Sam plays social glue. The hosts and guests break down the delicate balance between trusting your gut, rehearsing every possible reaction, and gambling your game on a single night’s plan. Key moments include: – The creative planning (and failed names) behind “Operation Italy,” plus why “tiramisu” almost required voting Sue out – The emotional and strategic impact of Sanctuary rewards and loved ones’ letters on gameplay decisions – How fake idols are made (and ruined) in the Fijian heat, with Genevieve’s “pocket full of paint” gone wrong – Improv sessions and code words for alliance communication post-reward – Aftermath at camp: damage control, hidden animosities, and keeping up the act for both players and production As Survivor 47 accelerates, will trust in the “Operation Italy” trio hold, or will one player’s paranoia unravel the plan? How do you know when to trust your new alliance and when to blow up the spot for self-preservation? Don’t miss this episode as Rob, Mike, Andy, Genevieve, and Sam pull back the curtain on one of Survivor’s most complex and entertaining moves ever. Tune in to learn just how far players must go—and how much they must rehearse—to pull off the perfect blindside. Chapters: 0:00 Time Trip Hosts Introduce Operation Italy 0:37 Meet Andy, Genevieve, and Sam 3:07 Ocean’s Eleven Style Episode Editing 4:38 Andy’s Optimism at Sanctuary Reward 7:44 Genevieve Troubleshoots Alliance Move 9:47 Repairing Andy and Genevieve’s Relationship 16:01 Sam Chooses Sanctuary Companions 23:39 Sanctuary Bonding and Loved Ones Letters 27:58 Planning and Improv for Operation Italy 34:32 Coordinating a Fake Idol Scheme 38:20 Naming Operation Italy: SEO Debate 40:07 Teeny Feels Snubbed After Reward 43:43 Pulling Off Operation Italy’s Deception 47:40 Choosing Rachel and Caroline as Targets 54:02 Contingency Plans and Voting Scenarios 60:54 Genevieve on Trust and Second-Guessing 66:04 Andy’s Notorious Hip Thrust Challenge Moment 72:05 Close Calls: Plan Almost Falls Apart 81:35 Burning Bridges and Post-Vote Damage Control 86:13 Tribal Council Curveballs and Tension 89:28 Andy’s Phonetic Vote and Jury Reaction To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Hey, everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisterino, and we are back with another edition of the Survivor time trip. Mike Bloom and I have been traveling through time with incredible survivor players to relive their most iconic moments. And we've got a doozy for you here today. So first, let's give it up for Mike.

Rob, we are truly treated to quite the buffet today with maybe perhaps a dessert helping of Tierra Missou Smei. Tierra Misu. Yes, yes, okay. No Sousme here, but do have the architects behind Operation Italy. Bongerno! Hey, chow. Andy, Genevieve, and Sam. Ciao, Rob. Welcome. Yes, this is the first because we have had one guest for all of the Survivor Time Trips,

but the people who brought you Operation Italy are all here. Andy, how are you doing? Doing so, so well. Always a pleasure, Rob, always a pleasure, Mike. And I'm very excited to have this little mini reunion. I don't see my 47ers enough at all, so I'm. Very happy to go on a trip down memory lane today. I'm super happy to be here.

Yes. And here with us, of course, Genevieve, Jennifer, how are you? I am doing well. Long distance joining you guys here from late night in Amsterdam. And I'm a little jealous. Andy's hair is looking better than mine. But at this point, I'm kind of used to it. So, yeah, excited to see my guys.

Okay. And then also here with us, it's the guy who won the reward to take everybody to the sanctuary. It's Sam Phelan. Hey Rob. I'm, I mean, Andy said it. Reliving the glory days. Who doesn't love doing that? We're getting ready for Survivor

51 and I need a little bit of an ego boost before that. So let's washed up. We're washed up. Yeah. New era is over. A nice reminder. I was going to say it's an era gone by now. We're officially in the open era. Here here today on RHAP as we welcome in the open era. Dinger. Yeah.

we'll see. We'll see if the open era can have anything that could top Operation Italy. Yeah, the highest rated episode on IMDB, I believe still to the state, right? Still! Let's go. Yeah.

Let's go. It was a very fun episode. I remember where I was on the night that this happened. We actually did a live show in Houston, Texas that night. So I actually had the pleasure of watching this with 400 or so fans and attendants who were

thoroughly entertained by an episode that combined a brilliant blindside along with stylistic fun mirroring a spy caper movie. The editing really a standout. Yeah. Ocean's 11 style edit in this one. Kind of unique style in terms of Survivor episodes. Yeah, I am actually curious about that because obviously, you know, this was a big move for all three of you in many different ways.

but what was your anticipation going into this episode? Did you think it was going to be made to be this big spectacle the way that it was? That's Andy. You know, you know the answer, Andy. Come on, don't, don't, come on. Well, this is my honest answer. We'll see if it aligns with yours. I mean, in the moment, I think, I mean, it's safe to say it was the most fun we had out there.

And we could tell it was just something cool. It was something different. We were saying that in the real time. We were saying that before the move actually, you know, we were sure it was going to succeed. So I did have like pretty decent expectations, right? But you just, you never know. You never know how it's going to come together. You never know as the the episodes are airing and the season developing what it's going to be and how it's going to be received and all that.

And so I had a, I was cautiously optimistic. And I will say once the, once I saw the episode for the first time, it really exceeded my expectations. It did. It did. I think we did a really good job teeing up not just the move, but like the genre of it all. We were playing into it. We were leaning into it. I think that's what it takes, you know, to serve something up for them so that they can knock it out of the park. It really was, I try to be biased, but it was just like, I think like the best edited episode of the new era, for sure. And so it's like for the episode to have the memorability that it, that it, that, that it does have, it really took the editing team to, to not squander the opportunity. And so,

I was thrilled when I, when I first saw it. Yeah. But I feel like that's a two-parter because it's like, were you confident in the moment, like as we were living it, or when we knew what the outcome was, we'd come home, we knew what the outcome was. And then you're leading up to the episode. Because in the moment, I definitely, like, did not feel confident, but then coming back and Andy is such, like, a deep fan that I feel like you were the most into like, okay, this is how I could see the edit being pulled together. This is likely. And so there's lots of like edit theory, which everyone does as a bit of like coping mechanism. But then you don't want to get too excited because you're like, and what if I'm purple for four episodes, which some people wouldn't feel great about. But it could be really great.

So yeah, the episode was, I didn't know what to expect. It was, it was cool. It was cool. It was cool. In the moment, Jeddiv, you're the one who before Tropa Council, like, lists off all the reasons why this isn't going to work. So I wouldn't expect in the moment that you thought it was going to be much of anything. Yeah, I guess, well, from Andy's POV, like, you have total control. And then the other half of the, like, confessionals I'm giving is like, okay, it could play it this way. Or, like, this is a great joke that Andy's playing on us. And it's like when you have to put down your dog and you're giving them one last good day. And that's what he's doing for me, you know?

So, yeah, it was probably more fun for Andy. He had all the control of them. Well, so like, it is slightly different from my perspective. For me, the giddiness and the sort of euphoria of it all, it was occurring the whole time because we were just in different places in the game and yeah, we were different roles to play in the move. I, Genevue did such an incredible job, the best confessional of the episode, her laying out all the ways it could go wrong.

I felt none of that. I was like so sure. Same. As soon as the three of us got picked for the reward, a lot of my stress and anxiety of which there was a lot, it just completely vanished. And I was grinning ear to ear on the way to the sanctuary. I don't know.

It's like, because I could see the pieces coming together. We could go into all that. But I just felt like in Harry Potter with the Felix Felicious. I was just like, this is just going to work. And we're having fun doing it. And I just saw the vision the whole time.

So my best on island memories of that was, I would say, the night of the sanctuary. And just doing it, doing the move itself. Once the third Caroline vote got red, I mean, it was just like sort of the cherry on top. I just felt really confident the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Genevieve is the cynic of the three of us. And like, so it has to be.

Yeah, no. No, and there is utility to that absolutely of like working through the troubleshooting. And like, I'm sure we'll get into some of the like the details of that night and what a lot of it looked like. But a big part of it was Genevieve troubleshooting ideas to keep kind of me and Andy in check on the, we're like, oh, this will do this and that. And she's the one kind of having to, hey guys, what if this happens? What if that happens? Like, let's account for all of these things. But it also, like you said, Rob, is no surprise that.

Andy and I are seeing the heist montage, Ocean's 11 style edit in our heads as we're walking around doing this stuff. And Genevieve's walking around, I think I'm going home. This is fun. And I'm like, Genevite, no,

you're not. Making sure I've got my socks in my bag. You've got to be ready to go to Pondy tonight. So we should set the stage for where we are in the game when we come into this. I believe, I know Andy says it's day 21, a day 21 plan. So that it's coming off of maybe one of the slower episodes.

this is $5.47 when Kyle ends up going out and... Excuse you, Rob. Tini says that Kyle was a big part of the fabric of season 47. Right at the top here. Yeah, a buck 50 for sure. So the Kyle vote happens where

and I'm assuming Genevieve and Sam you voted with Kyle. Is that right? I did that watch the previous episode. I vote in a line with Kyle. We vote for Kyle kind of in a house, big brother house vote ask. I threw a he vote. Yeah, try to keep kind.

At this one, at Genevieve, and I spelled it wrong. Yeah. You apologize for spelling it wrong, not for casting the vote, but for spelling it wrong, which I really correct. Let's get into some apologies here, though, because it's interesting. I mean, we'll talk about, I think, how premeditated this plan was, but what's so interesting about this is that the episode starts off with this dynamic of the underdogs that are not so under anymore.

And Sam and Genevieve on the outside. And Genevieve, you spend the first part of this episode, you know, trying to, to do a little bit of damage control because I think you would said in the previous episode how like you didn't necessarily respect Andy's game you apologize to him about that we have quite an awkward conversation with teeny where you say like if you're sitting against Rachel that's not a slam dunk and he says is that a threat

maybe not an ultimatum so what was your sort of perspective on trying to build these relationships or some sort of dynamic to keep you in the game considering how on the bottom you and Sam seemed Oh gosh. So yes, I had my disrespect towards Andy's game. I'd actually fully like to blame on Rob because I was really just paraphrasing something I'd heard on this wonderful platform about the losers, the nothing's, and the threats. And I was trying to lay it out for people and say, if you're perceived as a threat, this is my pitch to Rachel. If you're perceived as a threat, we should be working together and get rid of other people. But of course, that's ammo for

Rachel, who has no intent to work with me to go, like, hey, Genevieve called you a loser. Genevieve called you a nothing. And so, like, Andy, you tell me, but it's so interesting because I think there is a valid argument in threats should work together and shield each other. But it's such a fine line to then being like, well, who made me the queen of Shiba, who then gets to dictate what perception is? And you can be wrong about your perception.

You can spin a false perception. But then when you hurt feelings, you close more. doors than you open by doing those things. And so it was a good learning experience in the game. And I was glad Andy was open to me being like reversing course and realizing that was a misstep. Because yeah, kind of humbling. That's, I mean, that's one way to take it. But my perspective is interesting because like the fine line is is the key point to all this, I think. Because it's, it's, it's the new era, but it's just survivor in general. And it was the final seven, right? This is where the end game comes into the for, right? So, you're thinking

changes. And when I was thinking, when I thought, or like when I heard that Genevieve was saying these things, um, I mean, it heard a little bit, right? But much more than that, it kind of opened up my eyes, right? So

and this is how I see like the setup to what we did next. Yeah. But I thought I started doing. Did you say that Andy was a loser or nothing or a threat? I think I said Andy was a loser. Is that the three-tri-tri format for next season? Losers versus nothing versus threats?

Well, I think because at that point, and I'm very fortunate that Andy is pragmatic enough to see it that way and be like, okay, that doesn't mean it's true. That just means that maybe one person's perception. If that's one person's perception, maybe it's more. And now, how do I change that perception? Yeah. Because it's not reality. It's just what you're a threat masking as a loser.

We'll take that. We'll take that. But, um, But the thing is, I think what Genevieve ended up doing, it was like, ended up being really successful because it just painted, like, it solidified the picture of what I needed to do going forward. Because up to that point in the game, I started feeling really, really good about my secret position, you know, how much I was doing, how much, how many options I had relative to what people were perceiving about my game. I still maintain that is a really good and it's a really viable position. but every position has its tradeoffs. Genevieve and Sam were far and away. And then with Rachel, the perceived threats,

that's got pros and that's got cons. They have jury equity, but they're the names being thrown out every time. Mine is the opposite, right? So when that whole thing with Genevieve happened, I immediately, I was starting to think about just the endgame strategy implications of it. And I'm just like, okay, my secret position is great, but how do you go and then sell that to a jury, right? So you can claim you have this position and you have these options,

but if you don't prove it in any type of meaningful way, it's just words. You have no proof. It's not something that you can hold your head on. And so what I was thinking pretty much as soon as that happened was, well, okay, this position's viable right now, but I really, really need to flex the power that I, believe that I hold. I need to demonstrate it. And the, the worst way to demonstrate it is to just ride

it out with this underdog alliance, right? And the final seven was, in my mind, really the final round of leverage that I had to do something to shake it up. And so I don't, like, that happened in the final eight with the, you know, Genevieve saying that about my game. But again, I think this is a really nice flourish by the editors opening up on that because from my perspective, it really was a really good setup for our agendas aligning, even though they hadn't been in the past few rounds. And I feel like that, oh, sorry, I'm trying to try. No, please. I feel like that added to my element of, well, one, I didn't trust any one in the game. Maybe Sam, greatest betrayal of all at Final Five, but that's fine.

But it also was like, I'm so naturally suspicious for people. So when Andy says, then he wants to work together, I'm like, but how could you forgive me? because I'm not even coming from neutral with you or coming from a relationship deficit. And I think, Andy, you hit on this perfectly. It's one thing to say at the end, oh, yeah, I was overlooked and that was my strategy. It's another thing to be like, and this is how I actioned it. This is how I used it because so many people just stop with. I was overlooked.

That was my strategy, period. But where is the power in that unless you do something with it, which then translates to this move? Well, we talk about power. Let's talk about a big one that you had, Sam. because you are the one that is able to house everybody under this one place to bring Operation Italy together. And in the episode, after you win the reward challenge, you would sit, I think, at a confessional,

that you were already planning to take Andy and Genevieve with you if you had won reward. So what was your thinking going into this? Why these two specifically? Yeah. I mean, it kind of comes back to the night before, right? Kyle leaves the game. And Genevieve and I had both voted Kyle out,

unhappy that Kyle was leaving, kind of just going with the majority, but knowing that we were dying on numbers. And so my calculation that night and that next day immediately became like, how can we find a third which can make a majority? And I felt like the best two relationships that we had were me personally, my relationship with Andy and Genevieve's relationship with Teeny. Those were sort of like side duos that maybe not even gain. duos, more just like personal duos, that I felt like existed within this group of seven.

And so there was kind of this struggle back and forth between Genevieve and I, where we both saw our path forward a little bit differently. I didn't trust Teeny. Genevieve did trust Teney. I trusted Andy. Genevieve did not trust Andy. And it was kind of like not on the same page there. And so I think we were both trying to keep our mind open towards either one of people. If we can work with them to create a majority or more people for our side for a vote, we need to do that. And that was part of, I feel like, Genevieve trying to repair that relationship with Andy, me trying to continue to have conversations with Tini. Also something I remember was Genevieve might be able to speak to this as well. Genevieve was really down that day.

It was a, not to air you out a little bit. But it was something like I woke up. I had a conversation with Genevieve, I talked about, hey, can we try to do a three to two two? We might need to pull somebody else in here. She kind of goes off, has her strategic conversation, which ends up being her having a personal conversation kind of with Andy. And I think she's going and doing strategic work. And then right before we leave for the challenge, she sits down back next to me. And I remember just kind of being like, whoa, something is off with her. And I was kind of like, hey, you okay? and no she's not okay clearly not okay um so then that that's kind of eaten me up like what genevieve is not okay she's down she needs to pick up like this is not going well so then as we're walking into the

challenge we kind of come around the bend and we see the challenge for the first time see what it's going to be and i immediately feel like this is going to be in my wheelhouse this is one that i that i can win and should win. And she was next to me in line as we walk up. And I kind of turned it. I'm like, you need to go on reward, right? Like you want me to take you. And she kind of just nodded like affirming like, yeah, bring me, bring me if you win.

So from that moment, I think I said only if it's letters. Only if it's let. Oh, yeah. Only if it's letters. Yeah. So then for me, it immediately kind of became, hey, this is a personal thing where like I don't want to go on reward if Genevieve's not there. I want to do this for my friend. I want

Genevieve there. But then, you know, I had had a conversation with Andy earlier in the game where I'd promised to take him on reward. She didn't remember that. I did. Didn't remember it. Don't remember it. Yeah, no. But I appreciate the thought.

It was back. It got it. Like, it was early. And it was like, hey, because we were talking as Survivor fans about how cool some of this stuff would be. And I think Andy had brought up how, like, the loved ones letters would be really cool for him to go. And I had told him if I had a chance to give that to him, I would. And so then, you know, there had been some sort of, I would say, tension personally between Andy and I that I didn't know where it sat, where we both wanted to connect, but I had hurt him

and he had hurt me. And I think in many ways, we were saving face with one another that morning. We're like, hey, us two got a boys here at the final seven. Look at us. Who would have thought? but I don't think we ever reconciled that relationship in the way that we needed to to truly work together. And so it all just kind of made sense for me looking at the game board, looking at the need for three people on a vote, looking at the way that my personal relationships were,

that it was a no-brainer that I needed to be there with Andy and Genevieve. I'm curious. If either one of the two of you had won, who would you pick, Genevieve, if you wouldn't report? Sam and Tini. Okay, so it's sort of enlisting the same strategy that Sam did of like, and listen, Tini would have been a lot happier for what it's worth. But I don't think Tini would have done it because there was a tension between Tini and Sam

and Tini didn't have the same motivation that Andy had. Maybe that would have been a mistake. At the sanctuary. It's possible. I don't know at that stage. Once the wine is flowing. Once the wine is flowing, I think we could have left the sanctuary with a plan. I don't know if that plan would have actually made it to tribal.

counsel. Yeah. It would have been such a fun night. It would have been such a fun night. But I don't know if it would have the same methodical approach to a detailed game. What about you, Andy? Because it seems like as you were saying,

things were already ruminating your head. Maybe not this plan, but like you feel like you have to do something to help your perception. So was this something you were going to mobilize if you won? Well, what's funny is it really was this plan that was ruminating in my brain. However, I don't think if I won,

I would have felt good about taking Genevieve and Sam just because it would blow the cover. You know, if I was going to be horrible. Optics would be like really truly bad. But so like I don't think I practically could have done it. But what's interesting is like, yeah, like thinking about where I was in the game, I woke up that morning. I think I say on the show, I woke up that morning with a plan.

And it was swinging over with them and doing a three to two two. Specifically, I woke up really early that morning and had a walk with one of the producers. And I was just talking, you know, like when you're talking about where you might go next in the game, I was feeling pretty sure that that if in a perfect world, this would be the move I wanted to make. Do a plurality to do it here. To do it the final round, I could do it. But I was like, but there's just no way. There's no way. And I think the logistics were really on the top of my mind because in post-merge gameplay, these things really matter in terms of putting a plan together

and having the time and the space to not just get the right people and get the right people on board, but to do it in such a way that doesn't bring attention to itself. You barely have five minutes to, not even five, you know, you barely have two minutes to talk strategy with someone one-on-one. And so my thought process was, I want to do a move that's just like this, but I don't think it's possible because we're not.

going to have the time and the space. And then I was shocked when I got chosen for the reward. And then I just thought, you know, I thought about it. And I thought about what the reward entailed. And I'm like, that is exactly what we need. We have the time and we have the space. And we have something that can bond us, right? You know, we'll get into the loved ones letters and how amazing the sanctuary is. That's glue, you know, that that can really put a plan over the top and make people actually want to commit to it. So that's kind of, there was a bit of kismid, a bit of like, you know, right, like the stars aligning.

So it worked out exactly how it needed to, I think. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly, 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, Peace contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor.

Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. How long were you all at the sanctuary before the game talk started? Maybe an hour, two hours, I would say. No, I mean, I think we got there and it was initial, like, hey, dive into the food. There was some, like, emotional conversation right away. of me talking to Andy right away and kind of addressing some of that emotional tension. And I think Genevieve was an observer for a little bit and kind of taking it in.

And then once we got into the letters, it kind of just became an emotional conversation for all of us to that bonding that Andy sort of talked about. And I feel like once we had eaten eight, eaten, I don't know, we ended up sitting down and that's kind of when, that's kind of when some of the strategy really started flowing. Yeah. But it didn't take to... But you don't want to skip the level of the letters. You don't want to skip the food. You want to, like, have that moment be its moment. And I kind of knew I knew I was going to initiate game talk in sort of a real way.

So I just wanted to do it when I could do it. But what's interesting, as soon as we were done, kind of eating and everything, the sun was kind of about to set, right? So, like, you know what I mean? So it's perfect. I was like, actually, I got to cut to the game talk. I was like, all right. So we go to the beanbag chairs, you know?

Because you didn't want to have the game talk during the subpar lighting. That is a consideration. It's a consideration. He was just production. I. What a guy. Exactly. Wow.

I'm so intrigued. When it comes to this loved one's letter stuff, like do you each scope out an area? Because we have these like vistas of like, you know, Genevieve sitting on the chair and Sam sitting by the beach. Are they like, you go there? You go there. Yeah.

I mean, it was like, we everybody, I think Genevieve grabbed dibs on a beanbag, went to her beanbag. I'm like, all right. I'm going to go in a spot where you try to give everybody their personal space. So we each go to like three separate corners of the area that we have. Yeah. We were on the same page about that. I think it would be awkward if one of us wanted to like, hey,

let's share our letters and read them to each other. Like I think we're all three of us just wanted to like read our letters for the first time in our own spaces. So it's pretty nice. Yeah. And the letters helped with the plan. I feel like the survivor players, they tend to get the letters and they get more self-interested. and they seem more apt to make a move after they get a letter.

I feel like it depends what your letter says and what your motivation is and where you're out in the game. Because mine was the opposite. And I know there's this scene because it's burned in my mind because I hate it. But it's basically me crying about how I have no friends in the game. And I've got this letter from my dad being like, can't wait to hear about all these friends you've made.

And it was just like, holy, yeah, oh my goodness. This is such. Holy Connolly. Canoli, this is so different than who I am at home and like, how do I reconcile that? So, yeah, I think it's, it's so individual. I don't know, Andy, Sam, how did you guys feel? Honestly, my letters didn't like, I don't think they impacted my game strategy at all, my mindset, my mentality.

I just, I think it was a great opportunity to connect with the three of us together and kind of have some sort of emotional, because I think you are right, Rob, that sometimes it makes you more self-motive, like self-interested. But I think when you're that close to the end, I feel like everybody is already very tunnel-visioned on winning and getting to the end. But I think in that process,

it can be very easy to forget about the interpersonal aspects of the game and the fact that it is the relationships and the connections that allow you to mobilize strategies and make those moves that you want to. And then part of it is just the, stars aligning that Andy said of, yeah, it fueled you, hey, go make that move, go win the game. For Andy, for me, for Genevieve, it was kind of like talking about her friends and her relationships and how that she can find camaraderie with other people. And for where each of us were at in the game and what our motivations were, it aligned us

in a way where we were all interested in the same objective. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, like in a general sense, the letters kind of kick you into gear. It helps put things into perspective, you know, in a way where it kind of just frees you to play the game that you know, you want to play, like, just do your best. But I think the bonding agent aspect of it is also like pretty, this is kind of a random poll, like you help me help me out.

Triple H. Mm-hmm. Say, uh, reward as the spy vote came into play. Uh, with Ben, Lauren. Yeah. Ben, Lauren, Devin, and Nash. So it reminds me of that. It reminds me of that.

That was a reward. Those four or so were not like necessarily aligned, but they had a really good level and slutter's reward. And it kicked them into like to become very conspiratorial with each other. And then that worked for a round or two before it blew up. Yeah. I think Lauren picked the people to go on that reward. She had that idea in mind. And this is interesting in that it was not as though Sam, you know, had the exact.

plan in mind when you pick the people for the reward, even though these were people you were excited about, where if Andy is already thinking about things, he didn't pick the people for this. How do you mean? That in terms of Andy's Day 21 idea, he was, but he couldn't pick the people for the reward where Lauren picked the four people that she specifically wanted to like, hey, I'm going to build this new alliance. and these are the people that are in it. I think that was part of like the magic of that day in general.

And it was part like why I personally was so confident in everything. Obviously, once we're sitting there, we're at the sanctuary. Andy opens up strategy talk. He kind of gives his elevator pitch, right, of what he wants to see happen. We kind of troubleshoot some ideas. We bounce, get more information from him on, for example, the Rachel Steelevote, right? we get that piece of information to kind of just get a feel of the board and what we're what we're up against.

But as we're talking, obviously, they're pulling us for confessional. And we're each going off one at a time. So while we're having this big conversation of the three of us now, I have conversation one on one time with Andy. I have one on one time with Genevieve. Andy and Genevieve have one on one time. And I think Genevieve and I were last. So I think Genevieve and Andy went.

Then I sat with Andy. And then I finally got to talk. with Genevieve. And it was like, you know, we look at each other kind of what is going on? Because this was kind of our Hail Mary idea. And yet before we could even open our mouth to broach the subject of strategy, Andy's on it, he wants to do it. And she's like, I think he's pulling our leg. I'm like, I don't know. I think he's, I think he's doing it. So I think that's part of the reason why we were so confident. And it is like our idea was also like in his brain before we got there and then he pitches it and then I win and I bring the right people for him to actually

mobilize the idea that he had kind of perfection where I'm like, all right, yeah, we're good. Maybe not as realistic as I should have been because we were two idols and a steal of vote, but, you know, oh well. Well, you talk about this initial idea and the workshop he did. So, Andy, how much of the final product was in that original idea? Was it a different sketch than what we ultimately got? The skeleton was exactly. how it came about, but what wasn't solidifies like all the dirty details, I think that

and I want to give, let me give a shout right now to the other people who were left in the final seven. In my mind, I feel like we had to spend all night the three of us cooking up a very detailed intricate plan, and we'll get to this, not just for the final seven, but

for the final six, then for the final five, et cetera, because the other people in the game were very perceptive, very smart, and could oil it very easily because they had all these advantages, right? And so it took a long time. And again, the show portrayed it really well.

We talked deep into the night. We kind of got off topic a few times. The wine was flowing. But then we got back on topic and we had to develop the idea a lot. So a lot of the stuff with the idol, we threw a lot of ideas out there that didn't make it into that.

the final product of the move itself, but we're, but we're, we're, we're smart. What was, what was the one that stuck out that you wish had? We wanted to paint a picture. We wanted to all align on what the sanctuary was set up like in a way that it wasn't true. We wanted to say that it was like this, uh, it looked like the rainforest cafe or something with all the, all the bushes of all the shrubs and all the trees. Do you remember this? I don't remember this at all. I don't remember this. We wanted, we wanted to paint a alternative idea of what the sanctuary looked like to plant the seeds of like a plausible scenario

in which Genevieve did a secret mission to procure the idol at the sanctuary. That's when that comes along. You remember, we scrapped it. There had to be some weird behavior from me that could explain how something could have that you guys didn't. They were very, I remember that you two were very in the weeds

about the idol, which obviously was pivotal to like them believing the idol. It sounds like Genevieve was literally in the weeds to find the other things. But it was like... I was in the weeds of the bucket of beer and then the second bucket of beer. We had a detailed plan and we needed a lot of the detail. I think we were way more detailed than we needed to be on stuff. Like sometimes they tell you, right, you can tell when somebody's lying if they have too much information.

You know, they're offering up too many details. And I do think there was part of it as like Andy is going to say that he woke up in the middle of the night and saw Genevieve digging through something and then he saw Genevievee pull me for a chat into the bushes and then we were talking on the side and he thought maybe she found an idol and we didn't ended up needing any of that we just were like hey I think Genvi found something and it worked sort of but I feel like we did like I think what we did is we came up with a lot of ideas and we edited it down we paired it down yeah yeah thinned it into a right thing but to that to that specific point like we did sort of have a fake choreography of the night where I and I did tell

the other alliance this, that like, I saw the two of you talking by yourselves at night, which completely shattered any trust I had with you, blah, blah, blah. We, yeah, I thought it was fun for me to kind of script a complete fabrication of how the whole night went in a way that we would all like stick to this sort of details of the same story to make it believable. We did a lot of improv, Rob. Yeah, a lot of improv. Well, like.

We also had plans. So I think what was material. was it couldn't be set in stone because there was still a variable of an immunity challenge. And so what we had really spent time going through thoughtfully, which paid off the next day, I think, is, okay, how are we going to communicate with each other? And it was established, not all three of us. It will go in this way, in this order. And if we need to regroup, it's going to be like 30 seconds and you're going to get a name,

and that's what you're going to do. And then how do we make the fake idol believable? Oh, we have the flag. paint. Okay, you guys sit on the campfire on this side and talk. And so I can grab the paint over here and we can do arts and crafts. So like some of the things to make it believable, like, yes, going through the story over and over again, so it's going to be consistent. But then the mechanics of how you're going to communicate. Because to Andy's earlier point, post-merge world, you don't have much time. And like as soon as people feel like you're working together,

all of a sudden, maybe it's not plausible that he feels like he's on the out. So those details I feel like paid off. Yeah. And part of the show. charade in general was that Andy had sour feelings towards Genevieve and I. Genevieve specifically, he had sour feelings towards- Which was really plausible. You're very plausible. Part of that became Andy and Genevieve can't talk, like not allowed to speak to each other basically whatsoever. So I can talk to Genevieve, I can talk to Andy. If Andy hears some piece of information that requires emergency meeting, he had a code word that he would say to me

in passing, which would get me to go alert Genevieve that we would go into the woods to go plan, which was... Mushroom pasta. Mushroom pasta. He would talk about the mushroom pasta. And that meant SOS, things are bad. We need to talk. But other than that, it's like keep everybody at a need-to-know basis and let the information flow.

And then, like I said, Rob, the improv the night before was, I think, my favorite part, which is, okay, Genevieve. you have a fake idol and you are pitching this fake idol to a teeny. You're showing teeny the fake idol. Okay. Andy, you're teeny. Genevieve, you're you. I'll be me.

Let's practice the conversation. And we would go. And so now Genevieve does, hey, I have an idol. And the first one is, oh, really?

That's great news. What are we going to do with it? The second one is, no, you don't show me right now. And it's way more aggressive. And it's be prepared for the, whatever the reaction might be to,

to improv on the spot. And we were drunk on wine while doing. Right. Very drunk on wine. Yeah. It was some of our best work, I think, is that improv. So when it comes to the branding of this, can you confirm or deny that Operation Italy had a different original name

that may have gotten sheet down? Confirmed. Checked. So did you just like step into confessional and you're like, it's the Italian job and then someone immediately shouts it down saying, can't do that? We were cooking up the plan. the sun was setting

and we were talking about the details and then we took a 45 minute to come up with the name of the move we're like listen this is cool enough for a move we got to do it we started spitballing and yes our first idea was Sam's

and it was the one that the internet clamored for which is the Italian job but may I say in retrospect I am very very glad that it was not greenlit. Gotta get that SEO. Exactly. Like, that's a whole movie.

Like, that already exists, right? Why are you going to do, like, it's going to be super, whatever, redundant. The SEO is going to be terrible. I'm glad it was, you know, now it's, now it's original. And there were probably three iterations before that were horrific. Nothing more new era survivor coded than the SEO on this move would have been terrible. Crazy, crazy. But not.

We thought of calling it in the tiramisu, but then we're, like, but then you got to vote out Sue and is that the right move? There was a conversation about voting out Sue just to call it Tiramisu. Are you serious? Yeah. That was a real debate that was had while we were eating Tiramisu and drinking wine was what if we just voted out Sue instead? Which in hindsight could have been a cool move with her idol too, I guess.

Right. Yeah. So I'm happy with Operation Italy, although I will say my one regret of the entire move is not the name of the move, but the typography of the move the episode title is Operation colon Italy and I have to say

that this is my fault I regret it I told I was adamant that had to have a colon I was adamant it had to have a colon because that's what I thought all the secret operations had like Mission Impossible

as it turns out no like if you look at historical operation whatever they do not have a colon and so is it is my stance on it as co-author is that yes episode title has a colon but when we talk about the move itself I don't want the coal. And just like that. But how does that impact our SEO? That's no longer the most new era. That's no longer the most new era sentence ever.

We're talking typography. Yeah. So Mission Impossible has a colon. The things that are different military operations do not have a call. Correct. That is correct. And that's what this was. So, we should be more active.

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When Westcham first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us

at westjet.com slash 30 years. Can we talk about coming back to camp the next day because you were not aware of this, but Teeny was feeling a big way, especially towards you, Sam. This is where Teeny says Sam just lost the game, does quite the flattering impression of you. When you get back, did you catch any word of this?

What were you told about what happened while you were gone? Yeah, I mean, number one, I was aware that animosity was probably going to be a thing. Reminder for those at home, the last episode of Survivor we watched before flying out to film 47 was the Applebee's meltdown. So it was fresh on my mind how angry people might be about not being taken on a reward. I think I mostly just felt awkwardness at first and being like, okay, this is kind of the one person who really talked to me was Rachel. And she was just kind of like, I mean, yeah, it sucks. People are mad. But like, what are you going to do?

You can only bring two people. And was kind of addressing it for what it was. Didn't get much from Sue, didn't get much from Caroline, didn't get much from teeny. And I think it was the first thing out of Andy's mouth when we first convened for the first time. It was like, okay, go execute the plan. An hour or so went by where, you know, we had had our morning. And then I finally got time with Andy again where I'm like, all, how are things going? First of all, teeny hates you.

What? And what's going on? Yeah, it's not good. I think we can smooth that over in the future. No, no, not going to happen. Teeny hates you. Not on my radar whatsoever, but then actually started to, become a factor later on, I would say, because we had laid out in our detailing that if Rachel

wins the immunity, we're just going to vote Caroline. I started to really want to vote Tini out because the plan, which this is a good segue as well, was sort of contingent upon swinging a fourth to our side in the fallout of the move. And I started to feel like there was no way we could ever pull teeny to our side because Teeny hates me apparently and Andy had to let me know so that started to sort of put a wrinkle in things the day of

you didn't want to make it Operation Tini Me Su and just go after Tini then did not no no I thought we were working with Tini Genevieve obviously was working with Tini Andy and Tini were working together very closely as well at this point

in the game where it only made sense for them to keep Tini it just started to scare me about the fallout of like, is this ever going to be a working relationship? And is this something my allies are going to be able to smooth over for me? Or is it too far gone? But I had no idea the extent of it until after everything, like after filming and stuff probably.

So when you talk about things like that where you're having concerns, okay, maybe should we switch the plant to teeny? Like how much conversation are the three of you able to have about potential tweaks to this big caper you're pulling off. Within the scope of that day, every second that the three of us spent together made it on to the show for my perspective. I don't think I cut out any of the,

because there was no, like, even Andy and I, like. Yeah, the plan was to have no correspondence, except in like, except that the cards fell just right. And so I think I talked to Andy the one time before, like, when I get the full initial download of how everything's going.

And then the only other time was a perfect sort of split when Genevieve and I show Teeny the idol. And then as we're in the process of doing that, Andy sort of walks up on the conversation. And it provides a perfect like, oh, I can spend five seconds with Andy real quick while Genevieve is off doing her thing. And the one thing we had agreed on in the plan started intro to Andy was if Teeny asks and Sam's there, just stay with me so that you can shut it down and we'll move it on. And as soon as Teeny asked, Sam's like, Andy, let's go this way.

And so thank goodness we improv because the guys went off book a little bit. And then I was left to my own devices, which is never a good thing in Survivor. Let's talk about you making your own device here, Genevieve. How did this fake idol come together? Like, were you squirling yourself away in the corner of the jungle making this as soon as you came back? Yes. Yes and no. So the original craft tools Sam gave me went into the cargo pants pocket I had along with a scoop of purple paint. Because I was like, if I just shove purple paint my pocket. I just reached your hand and grabbing paint on your hand. Yeah, fully, fully. And well, first I had to get the paint into my bag, then get it somewhere where I could get the paint, like scoop it into my pocket. And then I was going to swoosh everything around so that it becomes purple because if it's not colored right for the tribe, it's as soon as someone looks at it, it's not believable.

But it's so hot that the paint just basically dried immediately in my pocket and kind of ruined the materials. But Sam had a ton of materials because the idols now are so easy to fabricate because they are a string and beads, which is plentiful on every torch at camp, every sign at camp. So it's really easy to make a fake idol. if you've ever made a bracelet, you can make a fake idol. We had a fake, we had like one meeting, because Genevieve was supposed to paint my fake gotta idol was like initial plan A. And then we had one meeting where she kind of told me like, this is going bad. The paint is like coming out of my pocket a little bit and it's getting messy.

And we're not getting like, it was bad. And so I needed to get more materials. And so then I had saved like the things that were wrapping tree mail, which just so happened to be black string with like purple beads. And so I kind of took everything out of my bag and like gave it to her. I'm like, here's a bunch of arts and craft supplies with purple beads and string. Go have fun. Yeah.

So I had a real idol and then some new material and basically just braided a repeat. Yeah. Yeah. Genevieve, can we stop down on a phrase that I don't believe has great SEO of a pocket full of paint that you literally. are taking like wet paint and like scooping it into your pocket? Yes. Yeah.

So the paint for the for the flags comes in little jars. So you just kind of pop the lid. And then you can like scoop a handful and put it in your pocket. Massage of the beads. And then in theory, massage the beads in the string in your cargo pants pocket. Go to the ocean. Wash your hand. And then you have beautiful purple materials.

She was afraid if she took the jar that somebody would notice that the purple jar was missing. But I took the jar for a minute into my bag. so that I could then step away to do this. And then I came back and everything was going to shit. And I was like, oh, my God. And my bags on the side. So what if I've now just filled purple paint all over my clothes? Because how do you not draw attention to that?

So I would, for future idol makers, avoid the paint unless you have like a perfect moment where you can really use it. It was an absolute mess and it didn't pay off. Yeah. I don't recommend. What's so interesting about this plan is that, as was mentioned before, the initial target was not the ultimate one. You all were going after Rachel.

What was it that made her the primary in this? And I guess we could also segue that into also what made Caroline the secondary and ultimately the final target? I think the thing that made Rachel the primary target is the same thing that made her win the game. So that one's obvious. Caroline, do you guys remember the Caroline logic? So, I mean, yeah, Rachel, I think was the idea. The main idea for Rachel was obviously.

the threat status of the four of them, Rachel was by far the tallest poppy there. But then also viewed as kind of the glue of that alliance in a lot of ways. Rachel was that was you, Sam. Yeah, right? That was the glue guy. Genevieve's the paint guy. Andy,

do you have an artist of crass? I mean, like Rachel was the person that kept pulling that underdog five together. She's the one that pulled them into the water well to begin with. She was the one that was kind of like, you know, she had a relationship with Caroline and a relationship with Sue, and she had been working on a relationship with Andy.

So our thought was Rachel leaves the game. Teeny is not loyal to Caroline and Sue at all. Teeny will come with us at that point if Rachel is out. Caroline kind of becomes a free agent in that regard. It just felt like more pieces were freed up if Rachel was removed from the game. And then I think the logic for Caroline is just who was more likely to, who stay loyal to Rachel, who was going to go with Rachel to the end. And we felt we had a better shot with Teeny still in the game of having Teeny with us

than we would have had getting Caroline to go with us. Yeah, because I feel like that- In a world that Teeny leaves, then we're just three-three again against Caroline, Sue, and Rachel, and it's not productive. And that makes sense, again, from your perspective, because we weren't necessarily at the time, I think, privy to how close Caroline and Rachel were how close Sue and Rachel would be. So, again, if they were,

seen as a bit of a trio or at least a working relationship. It does make sense then to try to strike at one of them and swing over teeny. Yeah. And I think the strength of those relationships in particular definitely got probably under-edited, specifically Rachel and Caroline were super close. But the other thing that made Rachel the primary target is that she kind of, while she was in a really great position in a way, because she had the best of both worlds where she kind of is part of this underdog majority.

but her underdog status was like very stale PR. She was not seen as an underdog in a way. But we didn't think the jury would like, the jury wouldn't see it's like low threat, right? So she gets to be with the people with low threat level while having a lot of respect from the jury. And she was coming on strong with the challenges already, right? So I was thinking, you know, with the to make the move at seven,

as impactful as possible shake up as much as it could. Like, she would be the ideal target. And, like, it's, you know, someone who would be perceived as one of the bigger threats taken out. But then, yeah, with Caroline, I think it's, like, what Sam said is true. I don't remember the specific, but, like, we did just, it was all scenarios. You know, we played all the scenarios. I think we landed on Caroline as a secondary target. Obviously she was really close with Sue and we wanted to keep Deany.

That's the one thing. But we mapped out, I think. We mapped out what the final six and final five would look like. To tell, yeah, because this is obviously the big sliding doors moment for Rachel, right? Because then she'll become immune for the rest of the game. So what were you planning to do if you got her out here? I think the answer is different. for all three of us.

Yeah, I think Andy probably takes out me next. Andy's what I would do if I was Andy. I'd swing back. Andy's immediately turning on us. That is correct. I think I'm riding with us three and, but probably banking on the fact that Genevieve gets cut. I wouldn't want to do it myself,

but then would hope that people cut Genevieve so that I could go to the end with somebody, another group of three. I think Genevieve, what's your plan? Go with us three probably. You win that. Oh, God. I had no long-term plans.

My long-term plan looked like try and wake up here tomorrow. So I don't have an honest answer. It would have like Sam would have been a given and teeny would have been a preference, but how you slice and dice the rest would have been like a product of circumstance. I think the thing on my mind, I thought it was a really good outcome of the final seven round. if the three of us actually builds some momentum, thinking that we are building some type of alliance, new alliance structure that could be stickier than the fluidity that we've seen before.

And I also wanted to take that move to like show Sam and Genevieve, this is a recurring theme for me. I wanted to let the mask revealed a little bit and be like, make do a big move with them. Right. And now they're seeing a different dimension of my game so that I could send them to the jury right after. you know, like rehabbing my image. Yeah.

And so, yeah. I honestly kind of, I just know that we had all the specifics, at least the ones that we aligned on, hammered down. But it didn't come to fruition. I think if Rachel goes home there, Andy has the flexibility to go either way. As soon as it's Carolina suit, the one that's left is going to be done with him.

So that makes it tougher. Which was a talking point, though, Genevieve and I, because I think we were aware of the fact that Andy sees an opportunity to take out Rachel and then go to the end with like Sue and Tini. And he's probably going to jump at that. And we're not in his long term plans. So we kind of had the break glass in case of emergency plan, which is out Andy to everybody in the game and make everybody hate him so that he goes home next and can't flip on us. Which was valid. That was a awesome factor. That's valid. But another part of by thinking during that period of time where, and again, this burned me then the very,

it burned me then the next round. But I started to develop this idea that no matter what I did to anybody in the game, they still wouldn't see me as the biggest fish to fry the next round. And so I just, this is a brand of hubris probably, but I was just like, I'm going to be invincible no matter what. And no matter what happens, people are going to be mad at me. They're going to, like, you could spin things against me, but they're not going to just want to take one of these endgame rounds and vote me out.

They're still going to want to sit with me. So I have that in mind. I think that's right, Andy. I think you're right with that. But I think then the problem comes then at final three. I know, I know. It would all hinge on the speech.

He's in a mode where he's worrying about that. He's not worrying about that right then. It's like he's got to get there first. But do you remember we did have a scenario where if Rachel went, at final six, we wanted to, I don't think this was going to come to fruition, but we agreed that we were going to pound the pavement

and say we're going to rocks. Oh, yeah. We were not doing that. We were not doing that. You were going to try to play chicken piccata with somebody and have them hopefully try to sway their vote by threatening a deadlock. Yeah, something like that. But Sam, you were not going to go to rocks

or you were not going to tell people you were going to go to rocks? I don't think, well, I think realistically, both Genevieve and I and probably Andy as well, thought that there was a future with Tini after Operation Italy where we didn't necessarily think a 3-3 deadlock was realistic. But, like, it was, Tini was always going to be on our side. I think it was going to be more of a power struggle for who ended up coming out of, especially, hey, Rachel goes, Caroline and Sue are now free agents,

who comes away with control of those votes? And, you know, where I think that has a lot to do with it. I certainly think that we probably end up back in a power struggle with Andy. and we sort of like are two ships passing in the night just because, you know, you see the writing on the wall of opportunity to try to get yourself into that dream final three. You know, you had this late night at the sanctuary. You talk about how the wine was flowing. Was anybody feeling the after effects of the wine the next day? Because Mike and I, the last time trip that we did, we talked about an episode of Survivor of the Amazon where, we had the family reward. And on the family reward,

we were overserved. And I, too, had a lot of wine and had retribed. The neck out of Rero. Rero got faded, I heard.

Yes. I don't think so. No? I remember a over in Fiji and I've, like, the most I've drank in last couple years has been in Fiji. I've never had a thing.

I think your adrenaline is like just going and you are metabolized. Like, yeah. I mean, you're, we didn't feel like crap for other reasons, but I'd never felt Yeah. We didn't have a hangover. Maybe you ate enough. The mosquitoes were really bad, though.

So my sleep was kind of below average at the sanctuary. It was, it was worse at the sanctuary than it was at camp for sure. Yeah, because we were being bit as well-up. But I remember, no, we were locked in when we woke up because we woke up before dawn. Had more pasta. It was like, right. And it was like, step one of this plan is stuff our faces with more carbs. to get us going.

Yeah. Because we had like three minutes to do so. And so I'm curious about the timing, though. So, okay, so you, that night 21, you go to the sanctuary, you plan Operation Italy, you come back. And is the immunity challenge very shortly thereafter after you come back? Because I feel like that in the new era, especially, I feel like they run these immunity challenges earlier in the day. Especially because it was a tribal day, too, I believe. I just, I don't know.

I remember that we had the time to lay the ground. work, you know, in the episode, it's like pretty faithful, right? The first, the first segment where we're laying out the plan was all before the immunity challenge. Yeah. I think it was a, I think it was kind of early though, because I mean, and maybe this is just because we didn't have much strategy to talk, but it was a, it was a long afternoon for me. I, like, I remember it being a long day. Because after the, after the plan, it was sort of, I'm sorry, after immunity, it becomes, what's plan B? Are we still doing Caroline? Or are we switching it to team? We kind of locked in Caroline.

I went fishing. And I spent two hours spearfishing that day. Kind of just being like, okay, it's going to be what it's going to be. Like I'm not going to talk strategy with anybody and trusting that like the pieces would fall into place. And I took Rachel spearfishing with me, which kept Rachel from talking strategy to anybody or or thing. But we had enough time to be doing a lot of stuff after immunity. So maybe it was earlier than usual because you don't always get that. Speaking of spearfishing, Genevieve,

what was a more enjoyable sanctuary experience? Operation Italy or Zach Brown's concert? Oh. Be honest, because it's so Zach Brown's concert. She liked that one. Yeah. Listen, there is a bucket of beers at both. I recall both with, you know,

fun memories. Operation Italy was the best because it was more like personally meaningful. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I appreciate. It is Zach Brown's song like your own personal.

personal loved one's letter, you know? You're a little dose of home. My home doesn't look that much like Zach Brown. It didn't really remind me of home in that way as like a letter from my husband and my parents. But no, the sanctuary is always a good time. I've been very fortunate to get to go a couple times. It's good stuff. But one thing I don't, oh, sorry, Rob, go ahead.

No, finish your time. I want to throw up your job. Can we talk a little bit about, because this is where I go back and forth on this move. I think so many other great moves and survivor or things that could have been a great move is like the sweet spot of trusting the move and the people you're with are bailing. Because if it wasn't for Sam like whispering confidence into my ear, I would have probably backed out on this and started contingency planning blown up Andy's spot that blows up this move. It never happened. So like how do you get the stars to align where you have people and what's the fine line of it's too good to be true? or trust the process because you can only pick one path and you only know if it's the right

path once it's played out. Like for every operation in Italy, there's some schmuck who gave up an immunity necklace and got voted out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think... Like, how do you judge? Like, we could just be three dupies. It's true, 100%. And I think, Rob, that was your, your bold prediction after Survivor 47 is that this would try to be replicated in some facet. And no, bad prediction, right? Yeah, not even close. not yet. Open era, open mind. Have we had anything that even comes close?

I think Survivor 48 had already been filmed, right? Or they didn't see Survivor 47. Maybe the origin of Trace Lake Chase coming at the sanctuary, which is kind of where they locked in. Yeah. You know what was closer to that? It's not the same. It's not the same.

But I was reminded of it a little bit with the 49 Alliance. Bottoms up. It didn't, it didn't call. in like this move that we remember necessarily but it was right before the merge and they had an overnight and they came together in like emotionally related but

conspiratorial way. Yeah. And maybe there's some of the DNA of some of the stuff that and that Devin's and Christian are doing in Survivor 50 that not to make it full circle Genevieve, but

I do feel like that there are some capers to it. Yeah, but I think that's easier when you have the, like, foundation of a relationship where the harder thing for new player seasons is, like, it's a gut call 50-50. And my gut won't have been wrong. I wouldn't have gone through with it.

And so, like, it's a combo. And on one side of the coin, you're a dummy for believing it. And on the other side, you're a dummy for, you know, not going with the plan that could have saved you. I think it is what you said, though. I think it is a, it's the cliche answer, because it is truly this is the heart of Survivor as a whole, but it is the people

and knowing the people that you're playing with or trying to make a move with. I think I had the benefit of working very closely in a duo with Andy for the first 10 days of the game and I had the privilege of working in a duo with

Genevieve for the second half of the game where I get to day 21, basically 10 days with Andy, five, six days with Genevieve at that point working with you where I felt like I knew both of you and I knew your motivations and his motivations and how we speak to one another to know that you were both on the level. And I'm not sure you and Andy didn't have enough familiarity with each other, I think, to, for you especially, Andy had the control, like you said.

So he kind of knew that things were going to go a certain way. I don't know if you had that level of familiarity. And like you mentioned, hey, Christian and Devin's, they have this relationship outside of the game that allows them to have a level of confidence in each other inside of the game in a different way. So I do think it is about building the familiarity with those people to understand them.

And I think that gives you another level of confidence when you try to execute something with them in the game. That's true. And I think, especially at that point of the game, this is another,

speaking of Devons, I think probably my favorite thing about Rick Devons is that he knows when to go for broke and just pave one path forward. And I think my,

a lot of my most confident and good feelings about operationately came from this certainty that I had that it was the one realistic path forward for me. And so I'm like, let's just do it. And I didn't have any stress about it because I'm like, it's either going to work and I think it will work or I'll feel good that I tried it and didn't just like hedge and just, I never wanted to just like, I never wanted to lose survivor by attrition. I never, I never wanted to go out quiet. And I think that's, yeah. And the flip side of this, right?

Like if you're looking at a counter example of what exactly what you were describing, Genevieve, I would look at Survivor 45 and somebody like Jake and Katura, who they, right, like they're not able to get on the same page for so many moves that could have changed the game because they didn't have a relationship with one another. And so now it's like, they're coming to each other being like, hey, this works for both of us, and they both know it works for both of them, but their lack of faith in the other person makes them create contingency plans and go rogue in a way that, like, they spoil what could have been a couple of very good moves along the way. Yeah. And Sam, it's funny that you bring up Jake,

because the thing that I was thinking of when you first mentioned his name was how he has the plan at when Caleb gets voted out of like, here's what we're going to do. And they give you, like, the reenactment of how it's going to go. at tribal council. So it was sort of like, he like primed the pump for the editors of like, oh man,

imagine we could do a whole spy episode. It's the whole plan that ends up being a tease because it blows up and, and I mean, it happens to him again at the final five. D should go home in fifth place there if him and Cuntura can get on the same page. Rick Devons, Dee.

When did we start talking big brother, Mike? I know. Everything old is new again. I want to know briefly on the immunity chat. here because I do think as great as the work all three of you doing this episode, there is one reason why it's rated 9.3 on IMDB, and it is Andy hip thrusting when he's trying to move that skull on the staff in the challenge.

I believe this is Rob, I think this is when you had Bryce on and he officially declared Andy the freakiest freak of the season because of these pelvic thrusts. Andy, did you have any sense as to what was going on with your lower body during that challenge? Did that one even make the top five of my hip thrusting moment? I don't know. There were a lot to be honest. Multiple head thrusts and.

tongue moments. I just, I had no awareness of how my body was, was moving in those moments. I was just not fix. The only thing that I kind of was like, knew was funny in the moment was the ball and like my tongue coming out with the ball.

But other than that, I kind of lived that one in slow motion. So I feel the record, we had no idea that this was a thing with Andy either. That was the most shocking thing. Jeff wasn't doing commentary on it during the moment. The most jarring thing watching the season back is seeing all the innuendos of Andy performing in challenges.

Yeah, that's the hinge movement. She's a full body motion. Rachel has a couple of advantages. She has the idol. She also has the vote block. Was the vote block something that was talked about in your discussions? That's why we needed mushroom past a code.

Because if something is going to be played, it's like, what are we going to do? The two emergencies. Andy can't get on the majority split and it's weird. He would have to force it too much to get in the majority split, and there's insistent that he's on the minority, or he hears that the vote block is going into play.

Those were the two sort of extreme SOS things that would have set us off. And so to the point of what we were doing all day, most of my energy was allocated to our babysitting the split vote and getting it right and having the block vote not being used. And it took a lot of, you know, But planning paid off because a lot of that stuff, the moments where those were decided was really on an edge, right? Like, it could have gone either way. I think the thing that I had in my head was that we're both getting on the right side of the vote split or ensuring there was a vote split.

Because honestly, the underdog alliance wasn't sold or even predisposed to doing a split vote in that round. So that took a lot of engineering. But also preventing the vote block was the theme was like, like just risk aversion with respect to Genevieve's idol. And so what was good about, you know, when you're in that spot and you're trying to make a votes pull happen that you're going to like ruin, like the one that you can't push too hard. You know, that's like the thing, right?

But what I felt, the reason I felt the logic like that I used to feel good about pushing a little bit was that I kind of truly believe that if I were loyal to them, the votes split would be the right move and that putting three on Genevieve was going to be the more logical move. It was going to be the path of least resistant when it comes to risk because they wanted to dance around it because Teeny really wanted to say them out. So like they as a group wanted to scare Genevieve into playing the idol but not ensuring that would be flushed, right?

And so really the only way to ensure that we don't see the idol at the final six in the scenario is to put more on Genevieve, right? So I felt very confident pushing that and like saying it 12 times to kind of drill that point home with this sort of idea that this unspoken thing, but I've tried really hard to be one of those Genevieve votes, right? And then with the block of vote, the argument I made to Rachel was along the same lines is, you know, we need it for at six, yeah. Yeah, we need it at the final six. Um, there was like, wait, you remember the rationale behind that specifically? Well, I think, I think there's like the clear idea, right? Like Sue and Tini or sorry, uh, Sue and

Caroline are a duo. You know, you and teeny are sort of this duo. If Rachel is with you and teeny, then, and you vote Genevieve out, well, now I'm a free agent who feels burned by by them, right? And so now you might have a three-three split. So you need the block of vote that you can use so that you make sure that your block of three can command the final six vote. Right, right, right, right. And I was saying that for you. It wasn't our original, like we wanted Rachel out, but the best thing that happened, I think, for us was she wins immunity. So she is no real skin in the game. It's not worth it to spend her advantage. She's easily dissuaded out of playing it.

So it was actually really fortunate for us that she wasn't vulnerable. I definitely agree with that. And I think that's something that's brought up. I agree that the way that it shook out, it was good that mutual one immunity. But I also wouldn't assume exactly what would have happened

if she hadn't had immunity. I think it's... Oh, I agree. I agree. You know what I mean? It's like I think it was... That's fair. I think she would have probably believed what Andy said,

but it would have made her likelihood to play it higher than her being safe. For sure. I think it's a what if it's an unplayed scenario because we would be trying hard to just make it work either way, right? Would she have played it for Caroline though or would she thought the votes were going to get to car? I don't think so. I think we could have gotten her if she wasn't a bit. It wasn't vulnerable, but I do think it made it a little smoother like Genevieve said because I think similarly to Andy not wanting to like push too hard for like this person to go home or like not use. You know, you have to be kind of subtle with it.

I also don't think Rachel wanted to be too. I don't think she, like, I don't know. I think she wanted to feel more trusting in the group and stuff. So if she didn't need to, like, force it, then. And she wouldn't have used her idol. It was more likely she would use her block of vote, which would. Yes, 100%. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

She was the one that played her shot in the dark to see if she needed to play the idol. So it makes sense. Visit BetMDM, Casino, and check out the newest exclusive, the price is right fortune pick. BetMDM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMDM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. What was the closest this plan came to turning pear-shaped? Was there a moment or an interaction that happened that you all either looked at each other or just internally thought,

oh no, this is going to shit really quickly? I have mine. It was early, which is kind of good because then I was able to recover it. But we're really hyped up. We were like getting ready, we're getting ready to go to camp, do operationally. It felt like, and same, you can confirm,

but it felt like the beginning of like a sports game. Like a big sports game, you're just kind of amped up, ready to go. we go in like it's we're getting the choreography right but the first convoy I have with rachel is just like I'm going to play my block of it like we're not going to split I'm going to play my block of boat um they show it out of order like they show it kind of like in the lead up to the tribal but it's the first combo that I have with rachel um and to the point like the logic we just said but like I had to really be careful massaging the argument um to get her off that and to kind

nudge people towards the right postbook that I wanted. But that was the scary SIGAT, but it recovered pretty soon after. I think for me, it's Rachel winning immunity. Because, like, I'm begging for anybody else to show up and win immunity and come through in this thing. And not that it obviously ruined the plan. It was still able to be effective in its own way. But I think at its origin, it was set out to be a assassination of Rachel and kind of

be like take take out this person who has so many people unwilling to take her out right now. And so that took a little bit out of gas because I just didn't think that Caroline Tini or Sue move had as much like mf to it as much as it. So then it kind of the purpose of it shook a little. It stopped becoming take out this big threat who opens up the rest of the game and started being a vehicle to create more voting blocks moving forward to advance. for me, myself, to the end of the game. Speaking of commitment to the plan, there's also the thing, the scenario where if one of you does win the immunity challenge,

then we couldn't do the same exact. Yeah, it's like everyone, everything sucks. So that's, I just, we did, I do remember we thought of everything. The one thing that I remember was,

there was a pretty solid contingency plan. If Sam, in particular, want immunity. If I want immunity. Yeah. And it had, the main theme was getting to you to vote,

Rachel out before Genevieve. But I think I kind of forget the details. Maybe we should go back and... Also, now I'm so offended. We didn't have an equally strong contingency plan for if I want to mean it. It was harder. Well, no, yeah, I think a big part

of it was reliant on teeny though, and that teeny relationship, like, that is another thing for all of the obviously the Rachel Caroline relationship is much stronger than it showed to be. And I think that that kind of went into a lot of thinking. So much of it revolved around Tini and everyone like all three of our individual relationships

with Tini for the night after, for the day of for, hey, if I win immunity, is there a world where we can convince Tini to get on board because the only other option is Genevieve and that's less satisfying than taking me out, right? You would never be able to convince Dini not to vote for me, but you might be able to get Tini to not vote for Genevieve if it really came down to it. And then like even on the day of it kind of the that was the other plan, right? Is like how do we play this off afterwards? Because all of us are technically burning teeny in one vote. How do we play this off in order to salvage that relationship, which was like another like equally fun layer?

Which I think is the one part that doesn't get its due credit on the show and in discourse about it. because I think it's the, it matters not that much because Rachel has an idol in her pocket, but I think it was a really cool part of completing the move as a whole. It was a big component to the outcome of the move is to be, just like I think by virtue of breaking up the underdog structure, whether it was via Rachel or Caroline, would kind of make things fluid enough again

so that we could capitalize our genuine connections, teeny so jenev and mine not so much sam at the time but um although it's a fake connection i would say you had a key i was keeping up appearances you yeah yeah yeah teeny didn't know that i knew about the stuff right but but um having teeny uh as a as a number for us but definitely for me was a big kicker of like solidifying how you know how we could go forward into the end game um and and to that point i i think we decided pretty pretty late. I don't know. I don't think it was all pre-scripted. I think that right before tribal, I had a combo with you, Sam, and I was like, this is how we're going to play it.

Because there was a teeny at the 11th hour kind of wanted to change his vote, right? 11th hour teeny was closer to voting with us than we had anticipated, which then kind of ruins it. Actually, Andy, this is where Andy got a little bit sneaky. You made, I'm glad you. Yeah, no, we We got to air him out. Air him out. Andy buckle up. We're going to air you out. So Teeny was prepared to vote with us.

And then Andy misled Teeny so he would be the sole swing. Andy had a conversation with me saying, Teeny will do it. Teeny will vote Caroline and go with us. Do we do that or not? Because Andy was kind of playing it like, Teeny, we're the middlemen. We're like deciding what's going to happen.

and then I told Andy it's your call. Like you're the one flipping on your alliance. So you're the one that decides if you want to do it alone or you don't want to do it alone. And Andy made the choice to tell Teeny that the vote was the same and don't vote for Caroline. And then he flipped and did it anyway without Tina. I forgot about Andy. You little rascal. I forgot about it.

That's all I wanted. And I think the logic to not to speak for you, Andy, but I think the logic is just like, if Teeny does and flips, it's less cool of like a less cool of a move. It's less, it's, and like, for A&S specifically, it's not,

and he's like, I'm going to show him. I'm a threat. I'm re-cate- a factor, but the thesis was like, not a loser. Let me,

let me blow up the game in a way that, you know, it all traces back to me. Am I thinking? Yeah. And so, I think it's smart thinking.

And so that kind of goes into the, like, I don't know, is the, I just lost the game. Is that in, is that in the show or not? Yeah,

that's, well, that's, Teeny saying that about how Sam quit the game because he told him. Not that. No, it's different. Oh, different. Okay. I won't talk about it then because it's not in the show.

But, um, Oh, come on. What are we doing? I think that's cool. I'm going to let them be the judge. Mm-hmm. Well, we talk about, TD had a really.

The reaction was a great, a very great reaction. At tribal. Very great reaction. After the Caroline vote got read. Uh, that Tini was feeling particularly burned and hopeless. Mainly,

I think because of, Not to put it all on Andy again, but I think because, you know, there was that conversation, hey, you and me should do this vote, told, no, we're not doing that vote just to see the vote happen without you anyways. I think led to particularly hurt feelings right in the moment. But then I think also set us up to do what we did back at the beach afterwards, which is kind of maintain a facade of everybody being mad at everybody and shrug our shoulders and act like it was one happy accident that it all happened,

which ended up pulling Teeny back onto our side. Right. So that was quite, uh, it was like a lot of improv, but that was the vision if we were going to keep teeny out of the vote, um,

to just keep our world building intact after this vote, right? So that we could, you know, keep painting the picture where, uh, we didn't conspire to like flip the game. Just,

just ourselves. That's a, and Sam, you're right and Andy, yeah, it doesn't get spoken about it. But so much of the plan was also when we get back from camp from tribal, how does this then build into next one, particularly important for Andy. And that was really well executed. Good job, Andy.

I didn't appreciate it enough at the time. That was really well executed. It was my favorite part of it. Like the night after was my favorite part of Operation Italy, I think. It was pretty important. I guess, yeah, my major lie to sell it was that I had just come up with it on the way to tribal council for me to flip my... He had a change of heart. It wasn't premeditated.

Yeah, like a change of heart. And the reason that landed was that I essentially had done that before. And I told T.D. or is probably voting for Genevieve instead of Kyle. I think... Which I also don't believe you thought about on the way to counsel last week. I did think of it. Like I thought about it, but it's all the way to tribal.

And then I sold teeny that. On the way to tribal three days prior. Yeah. And so I said to say it big and then he believed it. That goes into Teeny's relationships being so important to the construct of the game at that time and like this move in particular. Because, you know, another factor as well, Mike, you asked about the reward earlier and Teeny feeling hurt about my reward choices. But a big part of that was Genevieve and I kind of had this trio. with Teeny that was fake to Teeny and kind of fake to me.

I think it was very ideal for Genevieve. It's like my only two friends. I mean, it's like I said, I'm trying to pull an Andy rather than Teeny. I think Teeny wants no part of it, but does want to stay in with Genevieve. So I think that was kind of a thing where Genevieve's walking up with the idol

and the three of us are all talking together about the idol, as if it's the three of us against them and as if Genevieve and I are not with Andy at all and we're actually with Teeny, so much so that the underdog majority had more concern about teeny flipping and coming with us than they did Andy at that time. And they were really concerned about Teeny. But I think we ended up telling Teeny, hey, we're voting for Caroline, which started Teeny's reaction to maybe wanting to actually do it and proposing it to Andy. And so what you then see is after the vote, there is this world, right, where I tell Genevieve at Tribal, play the Idol, play the idol, Genevieve do it.

And she says, no, I trust Teeny, because it's under this idea that we're all voting together and Teeny is helping us. And so there were kind of layers when we got back where Teeny's mad at Genevieve for not playing the idol. Teeny's mad at Andy for flipping and doing it in the moment. Now, I'm mad at Teeny because I realized, hey, you thought Genevieve was playing the Idol. So you wanted me to go home. And we were kind of like creating these like webs of.

And then Genevieve's mad at Andy for being like, so you were actually going to vote for me the whole time and then flipped at the last moment. It was like these webs of everybody's mad at everybody. But most of the conversations were just fake improv to kind of keep our world intact after the fallout. I just have a very vivid memory now of sitting on the beach that night. and Teeny being like, I just can't believe we're so lucky it all worked out and I just like, can't even say a word because I felt like such a POS.

Like it's those ones where like the rubber meets the road and it's fun but then you're like, oh, like. Yeah, absolutely. Shout out to Tini. We love you, see. Shout out. Love you so much. He got his revenge.

And he had a great, he had a great gift moment with the double take upon seeing that idol, Genevieve, where he looks away and looks back. It's, it hope light and sinker would be putting it mildly. Shout out to Rachel, too, who was then secretly eavesdropping on all of this, right? Yeah. Yeah, this entire conversation, this entire improv conversation, yeah, Rachel's in the bushes.

In the audience, it's so believable. You alluded to this beforehand because I remember we were talking about this at the time that I thought it was such like a beautiful yet such a brilliant moment of, yeah, Sam, Genevieve, it looks like you're going to play the idol on Sam and you're like, no. It was one of those things where one of me said, like, no, I'll take the bullet, whatever happens, happens. So that was entirely planned out. You were planning to do that in the lead up or did this for the moment. Yeah, I told Genevieve that I was going to, I don't remember when we decided to do that. He was like, I'll tell you to play it. You say no, no.

It will just add to the narrative of like, you really have this idol. And that was for afterwards, right? It was this idea of like if we make a spectacle of the idol, it makes it more believable at six if we need it, that Genevieve still has this idol that's very real. And it kind of maintains its appearances, kind of to my demise almost at Final Five. where everybody thought the idol was real for a little too long. But it was, yeah, that was part of like planning for the fallout. The thing that has really, I guess I didn't know,

and we knew Sam Fallon famously a theater kid, I didn't know how much this was scripted. Like, I knew there was a lot of planning. I didn't know there was as much. And then I'll say this and then you say this and then I'll say this. And like the actual dialogue was really pre-written on a lot of this. I don't want to say the dialogue. Go ahead.

Sam's a performer. Andy is methodical and I'm a cynicist. So you like get this combo of people who want to just like over and over and over again like go through it. Yeah, it was a good combo, I think. When it came. Yeah, I don't know if it was the dialogue was like, you say this than this. But it was like we did. I'm telling you we did.

We did improv practices of, hey, you're talking to Caroline at the well. Caroline asks you bluntly, who are you voting for? Go. And it's like, just because you see so often, right, like plans fall apart because people aren't prepared to answer questions. They're not prepared to answer direct questions. They're not prepared to answer vague questions. They don't know how to behave and conduct themselves at tribal council. So they tip people off and say stick to the plan and all kinds of stuff. And you don't want to see all your work go down in the sewer because you do that. And so I think we were just very intentional about trying to. to account for what our social interactions were going to look like and being prepared to have something in those in those situations. Yeah, I think the preparation was the secret sauce to it. I really don't think the move would have happened with up.

I think the level of detail that we went into. So, I think also it is like from working with different people in different styles, as much as I questioned is Andy for real, I don't think I ever questioned, could Andy pull this off? Like his role, could

he do his role? 100%. This role without supervision 100%. Like the capability is there for every person, whereas sometimes you're working with someone and you're like, but I don't really know that that's the job for you, where it was like, this is exactly the job for you,

exactly the job for you. So it also, like I don't know if you guys feel differently, but I never, if it was going to happen, I didn't worry that, oh, I need to babysit Sam to get this done.

No. Yeah. I was, the only thing I was like surprised by it was how good at art you were. Like I was, I mean, I knew you painted. I saw you doing your watercolors in pregame.

You're like, I'm going to make a fake idol. My expectations for the idol were like here, where I thought we might be able to pull it off. And you were, I mean, the second you showed it to me, I'm like, dude, this is really,

really good. Okay, so that's when my... I trust their capabilities. Clearly, it was not reciprocal. No, no, no. It was.

It was. It was. It was, yeah. It was capabilities and everything. But like, I truly didn't know it was capable to make a fake idol that looked that similar to a real idol. And I know that might not be saying, a ton with like how idols are. Yeah, those idols are so bad. But it was, I would have bought it

hookline and sinker if I was not clued in on the plan. How dare you, Genevillie? Billy Elish is brewing in her tea right now. Don't speak her name. Don't speak her. Yeah, thank you, Andy. Yeah, but I completely trusted you with the idol part of it. I spent very little time thinking about it or worrying about if the fake idol is going to work. I'm just like, Genevieve's got it. And yeah. So I think we're like, and if she doesn't, see ya. Yeah, right? Not his, not his, not. his butt. Were there any curveballs that were thrown at tribal council, though? I mean, you were able to, for lack of a better term, stick to the plan, but was there anything

going on either in the room or stuff that Jeff asked or things that people said that made you feel for a second like, could we pull this off? I was worried for a moment that Andy was going to spoil it. There were there was time. Andy was sometimes not great at tribal. What? In my opinion. I don't know. I don't have that read like in what regards to. I worked. I worked with Andy on two very big blind sides on the season where we were were kind of doing stuff. I think Andy gets a little giddy sometimes about the fact that he's got something cooking. You know, because we're doing the thing and I'm like,

Jeff, I'm at the end of my rope and Genevieve's like, this is so sad. And it was kind of just like a hemming and hawn waiting for us to get cut. And then Andy was kind of like, you never know what irons are on the fire and what's cooking. I did not say. I'm like, Andy, shut up. No. I did not. I did not. I did not. I did not. I did not. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I I will say here's what I will here's what I will say I think that

your read on my intentions is like was way higher than a lot of people's in the game so you had an extra level of intuition of like how I was positioning my answers to travel council I remember my stance though at that tribal council was like because Jeff was pounding this idea that

the scramble was like very calm and like a just like on an asshole and you never know because we talked about hey what was the afternoon like and we talked about you know going fishing there wasn't much talk and all that so yeah so my meaning was just like from my perspective it's cut and dry and that makes me nervous because i don't know if someone else is planning something but um you never know how people read different answers at tribal council so but i will say i mean to that point though like in my opinion it wasn't an

eventful tribal council from my perspective i don't think anyone was saying anything real you know the realest thing that was coming out was like them being mad about the the reward the reward choices. Yeah, yeah, which didn't make me feel great, but, you know, when you get to the, because you know, in my head, I'm like, well, Genevieve might go home or we might pull this off. I guess there's a world where I go home, but that's only if like Andy's not with me and he's actually like flipping on me. And then Jeff spends most of the tribal council talking about how worried I might be that I

pissed everybody off about the reward. It's never good when the intentions on you from the questions. They're trying to get the setup to the edit so they can show me looking concerned while everybody votes. Yeah, it's a weird spot for Jeff because I feel like, I think he probably wants the action

at tribal council always, but I would have to imagine he's pretty tapped in on what you three are working on. So I think that he's probably got a sense, like, well, that would be good if this happened, but he actually doesn't know how everybody's going to vote

when you get up to the voting booth so maybe it's a flop so yeah Jeff isn't he's not ignorant to the plans at the beach that's they're happening on the beach but he really just lives in the moment I don't like

he knows little things he doesn't know the details really and for him he just tries to read body language and cues and whatnot so I mean that's that's his approach yeah I think it's tough for players too

like I think it's hard because you know know Jeff wants stuff. It's not fun to be the person that's showing up at Tribe being like, I got no irons on the fire, Jeff. I'm going home this week. Like, you don't want to be that guy every week. But sometimes you're like, I have to commit to this because I don't want to be the guy going,

you'd be surprised how many of these people are flipping on there a lot. Like, that's the good stuff for TV. It's so bad for your game. And I think that's hard because you want to give him what he wants. All right. Go ahead, Mike. Well, I was going to say, Andy, you were definitely one of the most unique voters I think I've ever seen in Survivor history. It feels like you bring a little everything out of the, you know, the variable bag of tricks.

You know, you have that. I think you spoke German during one vote. This one I noticed, did you write the phonetic pronunciation of Caroline underneath her name? I absolutely did. I did. I'm glad you picked that up. Yeah, like, well, I think one of my things, the reason I did that was I showed people the international, international phonetic alphabet, the IPA,

in the sand, and different conversations, people knew I was like, I like linguistics, and I was studying linguistics. But it was like, you wanted to sign it, Andy.

It was my calling card. It was my calling card. It was my calling card. And my first conversation with Caroline was spelling out her name in the sand in the IPA. So it was like a callback personal to Caroline. In a,

I intended to be in a sweet way, even though, you know, choose the target of the vote. It was like in a serial killer way, Andy. that too that too Andy's gonna be a kill shot I also wanted to be a kill shot I wanted it to be magazine cutouts this I wanted

there were enough people who knew about the IPA stuff that like I wanted it to be the last vote read out and to have sort of my markup you know it's your calling card yeah yeah well what what was the reaction now that the votes were quite literally spelled out I mean you spoke a little bit

about teeny but like Saul has shown on the jury saying like Andy did that did you get the sense that that was what everyone immediately figured out. And did you feel some immediately heat on you, Andy, as soon as, you know, Caroline gets up and starts to go? You mean the players in the game still? Yeah. Yeah, they knew it was me. And there was no hiding that it was going to be my vote. I had, we had no intention of like pretending it was someone else or just so few people. And I wanted, I wanted it to be known. And I don't know,

my, my focus was just on what I would say as a means of damage control. And I focused that on only a couple people. Probably not as much as I could have with some other people, right? It's like Sue is pissed. I don't know if there would have been anything you could say to Sue. You know what I mean? So it's like in terms of focusing your efforts and damage control. Yeah.

She's just like, I'm going to bed. What the hell was that? I'm going to kill him. I wanted to do. Oh, you Kyle in that moment, Angie. Yeah. I just in a sort of focus way, I wanted to do almost all my damage control on Tini. And so that's where I put my, put my energy.

But like to that point, like it was my intention, right, for that to be a move, right? That was something that I did. And I wanted to be something that shook up the dynamics. So I didn't want to shy away from credit for it. And I think my reasoning behind that was, conventionally, if you take a lot of credit for a move, it's just going to skyrocket your threat level. I think given the details and given where I was in the game

and the perception I've been given out and whatever, like that didn't even happen. And I think that was kind of another good kicker in terms of sort of intentionality with what I wanted to do next. It was, I wanted to have my cake and eat it too, really. We're like claim a move and still really not have the or highest threat level in the game at the final C. So it's like, I felt good in that sense.

And to the point, like, if things went differently at the final six, we'll put it this that way, right? Like, I don't think it raised my threat level in a bad way, even with the people who I pissed off. Like, definitely Genevieve and Sam were a much bigger fish fry shields in front of me. The only way it puts you in any hot water is if Genevieve and I tried to actively throw you under the bus. But I certainly think you came away from the vote in a spot where realistically you could recover standing with Rachel and Tini in a way that they would not have been wanting to vote you out after you made that move. And so long story short, like to then be

eliminated at the final six came down to gameplay at the final six. I don't think it was it wasn't fallout of Operation Italy. It was just the specifics of the Final Six and the idol that we didn't know about. All right. Do you guys think that? from a logistics perspective and sorry to get meta show on stuff. It's very new era appropriate. Yeah, sorry. Because we had laid out our plan in such great detail the night before, I do feel like there was not a bunch of cameras in our face around the campfire,

particularly when I was trying to steal the paint because I was hyper aware, because we had spoken so much about where the guys would stand that I feel like the cameras gave us so much space where sometimes they're like in and around the shelter and they're getting stuff because they are responding in real time. And I feel like because we had like, you know, openly brainstormed about our choreography as well that they didn't react so obviously with camera angles and it just was like standing back so we could move a lot more discreetly. Do you feel that or was I just being hyper paranoid? I don't, I don't know. I do think though it's a good thought because I think it was something I was hyper aware of playing.

The huge variable that you don't think about as a fan before you go is like, it's really hard to be subtle when a boom guy and a camera like are trudging everywhere you go. Like you can't exactly tiptoe out of camp. I don't know how they've done that in the past when people have had to like sneak away from camp. I would be terrified that the other dude is going to wake everybody up. But I do know obviously like they're taking notes of what we're

planning. They kind of tell you before you play, there's one of like the production notes of hey, if you're going to go sneak off into the woods to find an idol, you can let a producer know ahead of time and we'll send a camera out there to meet you somewhere so that we're not having, like, you can be sneaky if you're being intentional about laying that out for them. So I do think it's possible that, you know, our nighttime producer buddy was, I won't say his name, won't docks him like that, but that he was taking notes. He knows who he is. He knows who he He's one of my favorites. He is one of your favorites.

That he was taking notes to like relay to the people the next day so that they kind of knew, hey, be on the lookout for the stuff, but don't blow up their spot. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's two things. I mean, first of all, within the constraints, it is difficult, right? For them to capture everything in a subtle way. But their masters at it, like I came out of that extremely impressive with their ability to do that. I mean, maybe more perceptive people caught tells.

I don't think I caught a tell. Even though you are, like, aware of that or, like, trying to suss that out in the game. So they are really good at that. I also think pragmatically, it's just always good to, to Sam's point, like, play ball with them. Like, I just think that without them, you know, like, they're just standing and they're observing and they're following the story. If anything, I think that they felt so happy to kind of be on it, but tell that. in the real time, be in on it, be part of the conspiracy. As much as, I want to give full credit, they don't interfere in any way, right?

But it's like, I don't, I think they would really not want to interfere with it. Right. So I think that's kind of another layer to it. But no, I mean, yeah, it's probably hard, but they, I don't think they gave anything. I mean, no doubt. I mean, you took advantage of all of the tools at your disposal and you kept them in the conversation so that they could be able to tell that story. And this wasn't like a, oh, well, I don't trust the producers. So I'm not telling them what our plans are. You all three seem to have

implicit trust in the producers that you weren't worried that this plan was going to get screwed up by looping in production. And I think that you were rewarded with an all-time episode. Is that different, Rob, from your experience or has it evolved over time? Like, it wouldn't even have ever occurred to me to not 100% like trust the producer or like has that relationship shifted over time? It seems like I and maybe Mike can speak to this more. I don't think you even get on the show

if you're somebody who doesn't trust production. Whereas I think that in old school survivor I think that there were certainly people maybe a handful on each season was like I'm not telling you anything. I mean yeah you don't want to go full bolt right. I think it's also it's you know we've come a long way right from Colleen Haskell's

confessional and boring. being like, I just realized we're all on a game show. You know, I think that much like in those early days where maybe players were on a similar level than Jeff in terms of the way they regarded each other, and now he's sort of become a little bit more of a figure on the island that everyone kind of plays around and with. That's kind of the same thing with production, too,

where I think you're coming into the game, as you mentioned, Rob, with I think an implicit sense of this is the way things work and that, listen, the show has had 50 seasons now of, I would say, a relatively good record. in terms of not giving away the ghost or meddling too much in the affairs of things so they kind of have a historic precedent to speak upon. All right. Operation Italy,

thank you all so much for talking this through. This was so fun to hear all your perspectives on it. Let me go, Andy, anything you want to tell people about these days? I'm just living life, living normal, real life. I'm going to be real. I don't even post anymore. I don't do any social media right now. It's over? It's not over.

over, but I just don't know. I don't mean you. I mean social media. Is social media over? No, that's a deeper question. I don't know. Waste your time. But we'll see if I get active again, but you know, no one has to rush to

follow me. Jenny, are you posting more than Andy now? Well, I'm also just living life. You know, in my influencer era, I have a public account that I think is probably as dormant as Andy's. But Andy, I'm going to come to New York in a couple week. So maybe we'll do a post.

I heard it. Oh, good. Yeah. I'm down for that. Now, Sam, you're not quitting social media. No. Social Sam. Yeah, no, unfortunately not.

It's a lot of baseball, a lot of baseball on the social media for me. You know, comes with the job, but you've got to love it, too. We're getting to the home stretch. I will say I'll tease. Genevieve, can I tease a thing? Oh, oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Play resolve. Also play resolve. Play resolve. And, you know, like, I was feeling particularly tratorious recently. So I would just keep an eye out for any kind of like tratorious thing that that might have happened.

This is really overselling it, Sam. This is making it out like you are on the traders. Okay. That might be true. Keep our eyes peeled, Operation Scotland. No colon, please. Yeah. Only a sheep's colon.

Okay. No, let's just say I collaborated on an operation with my fellow Operation Italy collaborator, Genevieve on a traders project that will be, it's a game. and it's got some of some of your survivor faves in it, some people that you've never met. It was videotaped and we produced it and hosted it. And it'll be out at some point. At some point, it will be out. So I'm going to really.

In my parents' backyard. It was very official. And it was a matchup of traders and million dollar secret. And we made up a game and Sam Fluent and hosted. And we had, like he said, some survivor players and some normies. Yeah. Okay, a mixed season. And we'd love to have you next year.

Rob Mike. And he's already been harassed. Really? This is season two, but this is the first season that will be put out online, never before seen game design taking place. And it films in Canada. So I hope you have a passport. Okay. And I'm cutting it on I movie because I did a project in grade eight on I movie and that's all I know how to do.

from like 18 different camera angles. So good luck. It's incredible. All right. Mike Bloom, what's coming up for you? Well, we've got some Survivor to talk about Rob,

because he mentioned it a couple times. Survivor 51. The open era preseason is officially open. No interviews this time. But I'm going to do my best detective work to try to figure out who these people are. No interviews. Yeah, what the hell, right?

Listen, from your... hell, guys. Prepseers. But I, I'll, the podcast will be out at this point where we're going to do, you know, cast preview podcast getting into seven people at a time. But I should mention that there is one person on the cast who all three of you know, or at least we're in the vicinity of while Genevieve was painting watercolors. Do you have anything you'd like to talk about Christian Chavez?

Any perceptions you picked up in Ponderosa from him? I have one. So before the game, you meet at Ponderosa. it with the producers and they say, you know, feeling ready, anyone's standing out to you. And C.C. was the person I said is standing out to me and someone I'd really want to play with.

Oh. Yeah, I think you told me that as well, if I remember correctly. Yeah, he made a positive first impression on me. So did he laugh at all. He had both the best laugh in Survivor history. She did make a friend, okay? And he was taken from me immediately. Oh, my God.

Maybe that was the first domino. If that didn't happen, it would have been all gone differently. I liked him a lot. He had a mask on with a mustache design on it. And I think that left a really impression. That was all I had in my notebook was mustache mask boy. And he was reading a book about the Good Place NBC Show.

A book about the TV show The Good Place. A book about the TV show The Good Place. I didn't know what to make of that, but I liked him. Okay. All right. Well, thank you all so much for. joining us here on the Survivor Time Trip. What a fun trip back to Survivor 47. We will come back once again and go through the annals of Survivor history with you on Survivor Time Trip.

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