RHAP: We Know Survivor - Genevieve Mushuluk Post-Season Interview | Survivor 47

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

It’s time for a Survivor 47 post-season interview. Get a look behind the Survivor scenes and catch a fresh perspective from the castaways themselves. Today, Rob Cesternino (@RobCesternino) is joined by Genevieve Mushuluk to discuss her time in Fiji! Learn more about her strategic choices, alliances, relationships and much much more!

Hey everybody, Rob Cesarino here and I'm so excited for another one of our post-season interviews because I am here with somebody who made such a big impression on the Survivor fans this season. It is my great honor to talk to Genevieve. Genevieve, how are you? Hi Rob. I am doing well, excited to be here. Yes.

Life is good. Life is good. I have like really enjoyed not having the anxiety spiral every like Monday, Tuesday, leading up to Wednesday. And now I just. Why anxiety spiral? What's that from? Well, I did this thing called Survivor and it aired on CBS on Wednesday nights and they

don't show you what they're going to show of you in advance. So it's like the feeling of someone's going gonna read a page from your diary and you don't know which one or how many sentences they'll read or what context they'll give. So that was mainly the struggle and now it's January and life is good, you know? 2025, baby. But you came off so well on the show.

Every week it was more anxiety. Every week it was the same anxiety. Like people have asked me, what was it like? Was I so heartbroken the first few episodes to not be shown? And I really thrived as the purple princess. That is where I feel the most comfortable. You like that the best. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Because I know what I did, but I can intellectually understand that there is the experience of Survivor, which was for me, and there is the show Survivor, which is for all of us, and I don't get to control that. Yeah. All right. I'd love to jump into the time when you were the purple princess, when we really did not get to know you well at all

in the very early days, and kind of thought like, okay, well, this is just gonna be this purple person, and we had no idea you'd be such a big fixture on the season. So I guess I'd love to know about the beginning of your journey on Survivor. All right, let's walk through it. So I think the the big thing that was a bummer to start off my Survivor journey with was I got really sick the first few days. And so the first day is when Asia goes on her journey

and maybe we'll start before that. And I'll go a little nonlinear here with you Rob. As we lose the supplies, we're all looking around and Tuku does rock, paper, scissors or whatever to figure out who's gonna go. And Lavo's just looking around and no one wants to volunteer. And I think most people didn't want to go,

but Asia and I both wanted to be voluntold that we should go. I think we were the two who were really interested in going. And at one point in the awkward silence, Rome whispers, like, well, I would trust you, gesturing to me. And in the same moment, Asia's like, okay, if no one else wants to go, I'll go. And so I was so jealous Asia got to go,

because I'm thinking, like, she's gonna have an opportunity at least to bond with whoever goes from Tuco and maybe to get an advantage in addition to supplies. And so while Asia's off, the rest of us go back to Lavaux beach and start like trying to figure out like, how do you live in the jungle? And I had not practiced fire making. I'd also not looked up how to like make a bamboo shelter, what can

you eat in Fiji, all these things that would have been super helpful to know. But we get there and immediately people start looking for supplies, but also discreetly doing the survivor dance of it all and like winking and like, hi, I'm Genevieve. And you see who do you have natural chemistry with right away. And for me, Rome saying, well, I would trust you to go was a great start for me in Rome. And then as you see in the show,

Teenie and I are doing some kind of busy work and we connect really quickly. Kishan and I connect quickly. Saul and I don't have that instant chemistry, but no big deal, life is still good. And as the day goes on, Asia's gone longer and longer. And so these bonds start forming and I start going, well, what do you think she's doing on her journey?

Do you think there's a chance she's getting an advantage? Not to throw Asia under the bus, but just like worrying and wondering out loud. And everyone else is like, no, probably not. I'll write about it. And I think this is where I started to rub soul the wrong way because I was very vocal immediately. And then Asia came back and she gave us a story about what the journey was.

And I remained suspicious. The soul like lava holdout I was. And Asia had come back and said, the journey is I get a map, I find the first key before TK, and then we're both in the water for the last key and he like slowly edges me out, but I gave it the old college try and it was great.

Some really short version. And I just remember thinking like, this is not as detailed as I would tell a story if I had gone on a journey. I would have watched everyone through. I'm a talker to you as you could tell. This is like the world's longest answer. But I just remember being so sketched out by it.

And that was like day one on Lavo. So that's how things started and all the relationships went in different directions from there. Okay. So ultimately, and tell me if I'm missing anything in between that point and the point where Asia goes home in the show, it's really presented as, okay, should it be Asia or should it be Saul? We don't Rome has the advantage and there's some talk about maybe okay Maybe we should put the votes on Genevieve From from their perspective and the show really presents it as Kishan and teeny are kind of in the middle between You and Rome are on one side Saul and Asia are on the other side from your perspective, is that how things actually were?

Yes, ish. Yes, ish. So I would say it was pretty clear that it was a two, two, two dynamic on Lavau from my perspective, because what also happened that wasn't shown is a sort of day two, the two, two, two's form. And you can tell Asia and Saul have incredible chemistry. They get along so well. Teeny and Keyshawn and I had good chemistry. I also had good chemistry with Rome, but Teeny and Keyshawn were closer with each other. I feared I didn't know that, but I feared it.

And so one of the things that confirmed this for me and sort of put me or made me realize I was on the back foot was Rome had found his idol and I wake up to Teenie telling me, hey, wake up, Rome's gonna come and tell you he found an idol. He busted me showing it to Keishon. I'm not supposed to tell you yet because he wants to tell you.

So act surprised and all this has happened while I'm sleeping. And all you yet because he wants to tell you. So act surprised and all this has happened while I'm sleeping. And all I can think is, shoot, Rome had an idol and he showed it to teeny, not me. Teeny had a chance to show it someone and they showed it to Kishon. And now I am the fourth person finding out, which means I wasn't Rome's number one, and I'm not teeny's number one. And that is a very scary feeling, especially when I'm not having these magical clicks with Asia and Saul the same way teeny and Keesh on our so that is all happening to make me feel insecure. And one of the

things teeny had said to me, because I was also saying to teeny, you know, I'm having a hard time clicking with Saul in Asia. And teeny said, well, why don't you try and get to know Saul better? That was Teeny's specific advice. And so one night when I couldn't sleep, I think it was night two, and Saul also was up, I said, hey, you know, do you think there's any chance

we can work together recognizing by now, like Rome and Saul have had multiple fights, even though we're like 48 hours into this game. And everyone knows I get along well with Rome, maybe the only one. So I'm kind of guilty by association. And I say to Saul, like, notwithstanding, we're on opposite sides. Do you think we could do something reminiscent of Australian Survivor, where like we feed each other information, low key keep each other safe?

People won't be suspicious of that because we don't have this natural chemistry, but we can still have a really great professional working relationship. And I was hopeful that that might be a thing because he was really receptive to it in the moment and we waddled back up to the shelter and I'm laying there and it's probably not even been 10 minutes

and I hear Saul go, Kishon, Kishon. And I just like listen as he outs this plan and then I wake up the next morning and Keishon also tells me he's out of this plan. So to Keishon's credit, Keishon was really great at relaying information and always made me feel like I was still in with him,

but it was a mess. Lava was a huge mess. And Rome thought he was solid with Tini, Kishan, and myself. I think Asia and Saul felt like they were solid with Tini and Kishan, and I felt like I was solid with no one. So going into that first vote,

Kishan was telling me everything. Tini was being really cagey with what information Saul and Asia were giving to Tini, and I was so nervous that I, I like brought my shot in the dark in my bra in the voting booth. And I almost played it that night because everyone was making me so nervous. And I'm just like a nervous person in general.

Well, so that's where we really did not see what you were up to for those first seven days of the game. But then that next day, because I think it's one day in between when Asia gets voted out and then when Kishan gets voted out. That's really when and I don't know if the editors tried to do this of because it becomes such a big moment for you. Really, your game begins when Kishan goes home and you had to make this decision where, you know, there's, you know, this, this plan that they're talking about of potentially blindsiding Rome and, but your name came up in the fake plan and that was not something

that you wanted to hear about Kishawn. Yeah, I think I was less motivated by my name coming up as I was by the fact that this vote was going to weaken my position. Like Keishon says it and you hear it in the episode that getting rid of Rome will leave me more vulnerable. And my concern was Rome at this point has less of a connection with Teenie because Teenie burned that bridge by showing Keishon the idol. So now I am Rome's number one and he has this wonderful ability to find things. I think, yeah, at this point he's got the steal of vote.

He doesn't have his idol, but no one else really wants to work with him. And as long as he's around, he's gonna give me information and be sort of this constant distraction to everyone else. And I think, while everyone else on Lava were really bright players, no one really saw that value in Rome, and I saw a lot of value in Rome. And I wanted so badly an equal alliance or partnership to play this game with. And when Kishan was telling me this plan, it was so blatantly obvious that this was going to be bad for my game.

And that, that made me nervous. Like he obviously didn't really want to work with me and we weren't having a collaborative discussion of what's good for both of us. It was designed to make me beholden to him. And then at the next vote, him and Teenie could choose between Saul or myself and who they really wanted to stick with. And so it made me very nervous. So it was less about, oh, my name's out there and more about what's going to happen when my name's out there tomorrow. And I don't have Rome here. Yeah. And Kishan in his parting words said to you famously, Genevieve, I trusted you and well, actually Genevieve, I trusted the three. So I was quoting it wrong the whole time god

I almost got the wrong tattoo on my body that So For Kishan that he was gone, but really like so much of his impact of the game happens with him I know there Impact it had on you Could you could you just talk a little bit more about that of just how that changed you? Yeah, I mean, I'm so sorry.

I feel like people are so sick of hearing about like, Genevieve the person or Genevieve the player. I get it. But no, we're not. You're not? Okay, well then let me talk some more. It was never lost on me that like, there's so much damage you do to someone

when you vote them out of the game of survivor. And I can compartmentalize that. It is just a game and I never was going to take anything personally that people did against me. But that said, I applied for six years and my family is at home, nervous about what's going to happen. And they send you home if you don't make the merge and everyone's holding their breath to see that.

And so when you vote someone out, even though Asia and I were on opposite sides, you feel guilt knowing like Asia's got friends and family who don't want to see her come home early. Keyshawn has friends and family who don't want to see him come home early. And it's just this horrible weight that I really didn't want to have to think about in the moment that I was writing someone's name down. And the only way I could survive was to push it out of my mind. But I mean, how do you do that?

People don't talk about that enough. It's so easy to go like, oh, I'm going to be a cutthroat player and I'm not here to make friends and there's only one million dollar check. All those things I agree with. But also, are you human? Because then that makes it hard. It's gonna make it a little harder for you. Yeah, Genevieve, it's such a good point. And you've articulated it so well in your experience. But I think that for everybody who's listening who dreams of one day playing Survivor, when

you're dreaming of one day playing Survivor, you are backstabbing, you know, faceless, imaginary people. Now, like, get to know somebody and learn their hopes and dreams, and then see if you can stab them in the back just as with the same ease that you think you'll be able to do it. It's a challenge. Oh, absolutely.

And I think it's really interesting if you compare my game versus Teenie's game, because Teenie went the opposite way with that. Teenie immediately emotionally connected with everyone on Lavo, for the most part, and then didn't want to write down anyone's name. Like day five, Teenie already felt like such a connection with Asia. They didn't want to write down Asia's name. But then Teenie also wants Sala's their number one and Kishot is their number one.

And Genevieve is their number one. And so they they wanted to be friends with everyone and not vote anyone out, and I wanted to be able to vote people out so I couldn't be friends with anybody. And it's like the two extreme ends of that same problem. And I think really good survivor players are able to handle the weight of that decision and still clearly think about way out balance and execute those decisions. And I really struggled with it. Okay. Well, look, the bright news is you're not a sociopath. So that's the victory.

In that particular way. There's so many other categories. Okay. But it seems as though at this point where, okay, you're gonna move on without Kishan and that it seems like that there's like a time when you're trying to reconcile with Teenie and get back in Teenie's good graces. And then also still like trying to give it another go with Saul. So, okay, I never gave Saul a fair chance.

And this is another piece of advice. If you're listening and you wanna to go and play Survivor, know what kind of people you naturally connect with and know what baggage you're bringing into the game and what's going to get a reaction from you that's disproportionate to what the person has done. So a little bit insight into my life. I have had to shift and make different career decisions

because I felt like in certain circumstances, because I was a young woman, I wasn't being taken seriously by some of the men in authority roles that I was working in. So one of the conversations I had with Saul was him telling me, hey, here's all the ways you rubbed me wrong and why I don't like your game and here's what you should do.

That happened on day two, day one or two. And I felt like it was so condescending when he didn't mean to be. He was trying to clear the air. And actually after the game, Saul sent me like a Kellan episode with Dom, Road to Reality. And he was like, this reminds me of us.

I've listened to that one. Yeah, and it really was like, and now let me be very clear. Saul is an amazing person. He's coming to visit me in Winnipeg. When I'm in Norwalk for work, I go and see him. He's amazing. But out there, we just, we,

I will take a lot of the blame because I misinterpreted so much of how he was trying to communicate with me. And part of the problem was, he didn't know that Keyshawn had told me that Saul had ratted me out. So then Saul and I continued to have multiple discussions where Saul would say,

yeah, I really am so into your plan of playing from opposite sides. This will be great. And every time he did that, I would go, it works as long as no one knows about it. In like a sort of like cheeky way of like, I already know you've ruined this, but every time he did it,

it felt like he was twisting the knife and talking to me like I was stupid and I didn't know. And so I brought in all that baggage and it prevented me from ever being able to like accept his apology or go like, yeah, he lied to me, but it's survivor. So like, get over it, Genevieve. A little bit of like the Sue in me, you know, where it's like, Kyle wrote down my name and I can't work with him again. It's like, well, Saul betrayed me name and I can't work with him again. It's like, well, Saul betrayed me, so I can't work with him

again. So I was never really that confident in working with Saul. I never felt good about it. So he wasn't, it never, he felt like, never felt like a number for me, if that makes sense. But I did try to repair my relationship with Teenie. And we had a really open discussion after Kishan went home and Teenie's like, why didn't you tell me? I said, well, it's hard because you were so gen like so genuinely conflicted with the Asia vote, whether it was going to be Asia or Saul, but because you were conflicted, I could see that I could feel it and it made me feel insecure in my position. And hey, I know Saul told you some of this information

that you didn't come back and tell me, which also, when Keyshawn's telling it to me, it's great for me, but you're withholding it. And so now I question, who are you really with? And I think I said to... We had, again, a great open dialogue throughout the whole game. They showed Titi and I having a lot of explosive moments.

We had a lot of, like, really honest, great sort of relationship-building moments as well. But I said to Titi and I having a lot of explosive moments. We had a lot of like really honest, great sort of relationship building moments as well. But I said to Titi, it feels like you want me to be in a committed relationship with you, but you want to be able to play the field. And that's not going to work for me. That's not an equal partnership. I can't like, Kejon didn't really want to have an equal partnership with me. Titi didn't really. Rome didn't.

So I scored and I eventually find Sam. But it's just like heartbreak along the way as no one was looking for a number one. Yeah, Rome didn't. So, fast forward and I eventually find Sam, but it's just like heartbreak along the way as no one wants to be the equal mayor. You're looking for a number one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, is there anything else from your time at Lavo before we get into the merge? I don't think so.

I mean, no, it was messy and dynamic. There was a lot of late night chat. So here's the other thing. Like we see on Gata Andy wakes up Rachel on Lavo that was happening a lot. There were a lot of late night chats. Rome didn't sleep that well so he would come to the shelter and like pull different people for late night chats and it became the norm at Lavo. So if you're going to go out and play there is no like one rule for should you stay up all night and be a part of all those chats? Should you not leave the shelter to have chat? Like you have to sort of feel out what is the norm

for your tribe and what's going to upset people or make people nervous because it got to the point that you could go for like six nighttime chats and no one really that at a night. At the merge, Rome's name is coming up. Were you compelled at all to really go to bat for Rome to try to reverse course for him? No. Honestly, I wasn't. At this point, it had taken a lot of maintenance to juggle that relationship amongst the other relationships I was trying to manage.

When I was at the merge feast, a couple important things happened. The group of us who was there were talking about, well, who's the vote going to be? Rome has already rubbed some people the wrong way at this point, so his name gets thrown out. And I did not want to draw any attention to myself. I had just not competed in the challenge and had the like bonding mud moments with everyone. So I just sort of sat there and took it all in. A few other interesting things that happened or the one big thing that stuck with me that becomes relevant later is when people were tossing names out, everyone already assumed Caroline and Sue were a duo. But someone had tossed out Gabe and Sue had a really quick big reaction to it. And I remember

thinking, okay, she's closer to Gabe than she shows. And I didn't want to do that with Rome, because we were already assumed to be a duo. And I think if I would have tried to save him then, and he's asked me since, you know, why didn't you give me a heads up? I could play my Shaun the Dark. We were working together. You know I was with you. But if I would have given him a heads up and he played his Shaun the Dark,

everyone would have known it was me. And then I've like burned all these other relationships for one relationship. And in a game when you need the majority number of votes, that's not a smart thing to do. So I couldn't do it. I was so nervous leaving that merge feast of like, what am I gonna say to Rome?

Like my game was not built on like active big lies. It was built on withholding information. Like the Keyshawn vote was good because I could share information, just withhold information. So I didn't have to actively lie too much there. With Rome, I was so worried. And I was like the stars aligned when he walked up to me and was

like, the plan is salt. I didn't even have to give him an alternate plan. Like he just had his own thing. So that was great, but I was really nervous about it. You found the advantage during the big scramble. Did that change the way that people perceived you? I remember at the time, that remembering that there was that I can't see everybody is in the mud and you're the one person in your clean clothes sitting there.

And I really felt like that people are gonna look at you as other of that, like, oh, she's this person who is like her threat level is gonna be a lot higher that she's different than the rest of us? I don't think so. Nobody ever really was looking at me that way at that time. I think, so when we got this, hey, there's an advantage out there,

everyone scrambled for a bit. And then we went back to the shelter and it was like, so it was like such a nothing burger, as scrambled for a bit. And then we went back to the shelter and it was like, so it was like such a nothing burger as the kids will say. And then it like eventually leads to something, but I think all the frenzy had died down and I hadn't found it in a way that made anyone feel like I had beaten them to the punch or was so quick or so clever.

It just, everyone's like, I guess like happy accident. Good job, Genevieve. So no, I don't think anyone was thinking of me that way at that time. So I believe the next day is we see you wake up and you end up going to Andy and feeling like, okay, I need a new ally. What was it about Andy that stood out to you?

So I was really struck by the first challenge and Andy's moment. Emotional moment. Emotional moment. Not in a bad way. In fact, the opposite effect of me because I'm like, that could be me. That is something I would do. And so that is someone I instantly feel like this compassion for.

And what I will say in that moment, I don't think Andy was like in his own head when he's saying, you know, they they don't cheer for me with the coconut. Like, that moment was longer than you see on TV. And it took his I remember thinking, why is no one in his tribe, like comforting him? Like he's been going on for a minute and no one has like, turned to help him. I wanted to like walk off my mat and go and hug him and be like, dude, take a breath, it's okay. So I don't think he was totally in his head about that. I think some of that dynamic was real and he was feeling it. And so when we got to merge, one,

I already felt like this bond with him that I couldn't explain. And then was like, hopefully it's still real, that dynamic, and he is on the outs, because that's how I felt at Lavaux. And if we can link up, we'll be a really capable force, I think. But it only took about a day for me to then give a confessional saying, I don't think I can work with Andy. So I had all these high hopes on what that relationship could be. And then-

Well, what was it about Andy that you felt like that the style was not a match? Well, he had told me that I could be his number one. And then I heard he said that to so many other people, which if you go and play Survivor, you can have multiple number ones, just like use slightly different language with all of them so they can't match it up. And he just, you kind of see it at the Riverward when Sierra calls him out,

like he just moved in a way that brought a lot of attention to himself in a way that wasn't going to be as helpful as Rome did. And if I like, I find them to be honestly kind of similar players, Rome's, Rome was very predictable and consistent in his chaos. What you don't see at the Keyshawn tribe is Rome gets up and whispers in Keyshawn's ear. And I'm just like, oh, no, something is going wrong. And then he comes up to me and whispers in my ear and goes, don't worry, the plan is still the plan. I'm just, you know, I'm just messing with him.

I like, OK, that's not definitely not something I would do, but appreciate the check in. Go sit down later. And I'm just messing with him. I'm like, OK, that's not definitely not something I would do, but appreciate the check in. Go sit down later. And I'm jumping out over here. But at the Solvo, there's all this frenzy and Andy's in the in the mix of it. And instead of Andy coming up and telling me we're still good, Gabe comes up to me and says, we can't work with Andy again. And so like they're different breeds of chaos and chaos itself is not a bad thing.

But certain brands of chaos are easier to work with than others and Andy was a brand that made me really, really nervous. Okay, so this is when we get where Rachel goes off with all of Tuco and you get to go on the reward with Andy and Sam, Sierra, Saul and Teenie and when Saul is gonna find the reward. But the idea that's being talked about

and thrown about is, okay, yellow and red are gonna be the alliance, that it's gonna be Lavo and Gata, and we're gonna team up against Tuco. But you didn't love this idea. I didn't love this idea, I guess is what I can say. Because I, everyone at Merge felt like open-fronted I didn't love this idea, I guess is what I can say to you. Why not? Because I, everyone at Merge felt like open for business, but I had history and I had

been sort of rejected for business by Saul. And so for me, I'd rather play with question marks who I think I can sway than someone who I have a track record with that hasn't worked. And yes, you might be thinking, oh, but didn't Saul work for you on the Keyshawn vote? He worked with us, but what really was his alternative? What was he going to do? Rome had to steal a vote. And so I didn't have... I was always more worried about sort of the Saul of it all.

And I wanted to deal with that as soon as I could. I knew it wasn't in that moment, but there was no like red, there was no lava. The lava three was not a thing to me. I never felt like it was. So yeah, red and yellow wasn't gonna be a beautiful combo. Okay, so Saul gets the advantage to save Rachel. Did you suss out that it was Saul who made that move as you were sitting on the jury bench? I was not 100% confident it was Saul. I wouldn't go so far as to like accuse him.

What do you thought it was? Gata? Pardon me? You thought it was Sam or Sierra? The people I thought it was most likely to be were Andy or Saul. Got it. Which I guess is indicative of those of the people I trusted the least. Mm hmm. Okay. So when everybody comes back, you all have the auction and there is some discussion. Okay. That from the got the perspective, they think, okay, we're going to take out

one of the numbers from to goo. They're looking at people like Gabe. But you end up talking with the Carolines and Sue's and these are the people that you're gravitating towards a little bit more. What was it about them? Oh, I love Caroline. Caroline is exactly the type of person that I enjoy collaborating with in life and in Survivor. And she was really open to hear different perspectives. And I think one thing that made Caroline an incredible Survivor player, and it comes across in her exit interviews, I think,

is she's able to be analytical in a way that most of us can't be because ego gets involved. If you listen to Caroline's exit press, she's the person to say, yep, I did this wrong, or I didn't see this. And so she's also got a clearer picture because she's able to be much more objective than other people. And as someone who tends to be, I'm putting it myself now for

people who are watching this, I tend to be too direct, and I get overly focused on objective and forget that people are people and you can't like just say your plan in a certain way. Caroline never really was put off by any of that. So it was easy to talk to her. That's why I was drawn to her. And as we're chatting in the water, you see me say, I prefer Rachel, or maybe you don't see it. But there was a conversation between Caroline and I about the God of Three. And no one is including Andy in

the God of Three at this point, because it's like pretty obvious he's out, or which is what they wanted us to think. And out of the God of Three, there's this duo of Sam and Sierra, and then there's Rachel. And my philosophy, not intentionally at the time, but looking back, was always,

keep the people who aren't on everyone's radar. The duo will be here tomorrow and still be scary. If Rachel's here- Spooky scary. Yes. Well, Rachel is way more spooky scared of me because no one else is afraid of Rachel, which means how do I rally votes to get out Rachel?

And so if this is an opportunity to do it, let's try. And Caroline was open to it. And she said, yeah, but the boys are gonna want the credit for it. And we were both on the same page of like, let them who cares about the credit. If we get the ultimate outcome we want, I don't care. And at this point, early merge, as long as it's not me, that's fine. Yeah.

And so- I think that that was such an interesting way that you approached the game of that. I'm not looking to take out the big threats. I want to take out the medium threats, the people that are going to be forgotten about. And you did, you know, kind of call the shot on Rachel. I tried. I tried. I never had numbers. I never had numbers. This is one thing I think I did well, which like cringe to like compliment yourself. But one thing I think I did well in the game was playing and having influence without authority because

I never had an alliance or like people who really backed me. I was able to maneuver and sort of get the ear of people who did have those things. People like Gabe, who led an army of toku. And if you could have seen the choke hold gave had on toku, it was so impressive. He is such an influential person. And so when we're unable to get traction for Rachel, then it becomes between Sierra and Sam. And Teeny was pretty pissed at me at this point because Teeny had a great connection with Sierra, not a great connection with Sam, wanted Sam out. But Sam is, again, a way more visible target. If we take out Sam, who's to say people are going to be still worried about Sierra tomorrow? Whereas I can promise you they're going to be worried about

Sam tomorrow. So yeah, I like to keep the threats around. Okay. So Sierra ends up going home and then we get to our day where everybody is going to be partnered up. Sue is your partner, right, in this challenge? How did that come to be? Well, we were both the first pick. Everybody wanted to be with both of us, and so we thought we would be with each other, yeah. We were both the last picks.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we were. Interesting, okay. But anyways, so- It wasn't a lot of sarcastic, but I this is, you know, a big turning point in your game, because this is when you say, but what about Saul? Well, this ended up being a perfect opportunity.

So you see Saul, teeny and myself have a conversation with Sam in the morning where it's like, well, what about Gabe? But that was put on for Sam, because as far as everyone else was thinking, like, Saul had a great connection with Gabe. He wasn't actually wanting to get Gabe out at this point. But I had planted that mental flag of Sue's reaction at the merge feast. And so when we're sitting there alone. I thought this was a great opportunity.

I can talk to Sue. If I just go up to Gabe and say this out of nowhere, I don't really have that good a relationship with him. He's developed a great relationship with Saul. It's not gonna seem authentic, cause it's not, and he's gonna pick up on that. And I don't have the goodwill to carry this live forward with Gabe, but Sue does.

And Sue obviously has some kind of deeper relationship with Gabe than I can see. So what if I do it under the guise of, hey Sue, I feel close with you, I just want to give you a heads up. Like we don't have to do this, but maybe, and you know, I like Gabe and this and that, what you see in the episode. And then when I approach Gabe, I do it of like, listen, I'm not trying to cause a problem, but Sue told me that I should give you this heads up. And then you see the conversation, I think at the well or whatever. And, and I thought it was going to be so cut and dry. And that stupid journey really screwed me over because Caroline was the number we needed. So had Caroline not lost her vote, Andy and Rachel would not have been brought in on that.

And it would have gone off smoothly because she is not a chaotic player. She is very tactical and that would have been great. But she's the one who topples the tower of cards or Jenga game, whatever. And then we had to tell Andy. And then Caroline or someone had suggested, let's make Andy feel like he's got some agency,

let him decide if he wants to bring in Rachel. Sure, sure, what about Sam? I don't know, Sam's close with Lavoe. So, thus the mess, thus the mess. Yeah, it was almost like you were building this perfect Jenga tower. And Andy just pulled out the piece that I needed. Yeah, looking back at it though, And Andy just told out the piece that I needed.

Looking back at it though, based on how everything went down, how do you think you would have done anything different if you could have? Hmm. And there may be no right answer. All of it specifically or the whole game? No, on this vote, because it ends up really then you have such a big target on your back after this all goes sideways. Yeah, I wasn't really worried about the big target,

honestly, because I was still a party of one, and people aren't that worried about parties of one, no matter how big your target was. It's the same reason we didn't go for Sam immediately after Sierra was gone, because what's one person gonna do? But you get so much credit for the, well that was Genevieve did that.

Genevieve did the, she is responsible for the Saul vote. And the next vote is really like, you are feeling the heat, at least from us watching the TV show, when it seems like that you're thinking, especially when you're shot in the dark is gone, that you might be the one to go home. Is that maybe played up a little bit more for the show? So I knew where the majority I've been told where the majority of votes were going at the Gabe Tribal. A big part of the fight that Teenie and I had after the Solvo was Teenie being upset

that they've gone around at Tribal Council and Gabe was still lying to them Solvo was Teenie being upset that they've gone around at tribal council and Gabe was still lying to them. And when Teenie came and sat by me, you don't see this, but I basically say like, yes, sorry, I'll explain it later, but this is what's happening. And as Teenie and I are arguing loudly behind the shelter, thinking no one can hear us, one of the things Teenie says is like, look at Gabe over there holding court in the hammock. I swear he's got to go tomorrow. And I was just like, Look at Gabe over there holding court in the hammock. I swear he's got to go tomorrow. And I was just like, Yeah, absolutely. And just hoping that the rage was a bit bigger for Gabe than me because

teeny was in that sort of swing position same. Same as Caroline who was open to make a move. There were a few people who could have tipped it either way. And Teenie saved me multiple times. So that was great. But I knew where the majority of votes were going, but I had given, so, sorry, Rob, this is rambly, but I had given a confessional at some point in the game. And it's exactly how I feel.

It's like, I'm slightly narcissistic, obviously, because I applied to be on reality TV. And I'm like deeply insecure. So at every tribal council, all I can think is it's all about me and everyone hates me and no one wants me here. So I'm going home. Even at the Sam and Sierra one, like there is a part of my mind that just thinks that way and I can't help it.

Because that was the tribal council. You gave so many facial expressions of like, and it was raining and your glasses on and it's like, it's me. It's not me. Whoa, I'm safe. Okay, I made it, I made it. Can you believe it? You should always think it could be you. Like, I, at least from my perspective,

you should always think it could be you. That doesn't mean you need to act like it's going to be you. That doesn't mean you need to do anything crazy. But if you are at tribal council and you're not wearing a necklace, you should always be prepared, a little part part of you that it's you that day. Okay. All right.

So now Gabe is gone and now, okay, a big threat in the game is gone from the to-coos. But unfortunately, you're left out of like this new group of five that comes together with the underdogs, the majority of the underdogs, the underdog majority. Yep. And they leave you out of it. Yes, I was also left out of the women's alliance too. Oh my God, maybe everybody does hate me.

Yeah, what's up with that? Listen, being a threat party of one is not a bad spot to be if you can survive. So are you worried yet? Are you feeling like that you said that, okay, being the threat doesn't bother me, but now you're not in the underdog majority. Oh, I was where I was worried. You know that scene where Jeff's giving everybody their tribe names. I was worried then and I never stopped being worried. So but you just have to you have to be prepared to be worried all the time. I was worried then and I never stopped being worried. So, but you just have to you have to be prepared to be worried all the time. I think it does shape how you play for sure because you

there's times where you are a driver. Sometimes you're just trying to survive. Sometimes you're just lucky to be passenger and get a view. And I was only driver or in drive mode when my back was against the wall. I never really figured out how to play with power. I only figured out how to get my back off the wall. Never to go forward. So did you feel like your back was against the wall when Kyle went home?

Not really. Because Kyle was going home Because Kyle was going home. Kyle was going home. The only thing that made me nervous about Gabe and Kyle were like if they were going to have an idol or someone was going to play an idol or something was going to happen. Because we had not figured out the red paint idol

and if there was a merch idol. So I had this constant state of worry, which I just carry generally in life. But for those votes, I was less worried, probably than I should have been. I should have been more worried. All right, well now it's a big turning point in the game now that Kyle goes home.

And Andy wrote your name down at the Kyle tribal council. And you and Andy from at the point where you're gonna work together, it seems like that there had been some friction and it seems like that you reach out to Andy and mend some fences with Andrew. Oh yeah so here's another piece of advice everybody don't do what I do. So Rob I listen to the podcast with the losers nothings and threats theory, which I love. And I knew Rachel was a Robbins podcast fan. And so you see me talk to her about like, let's band together as the threats.

What I had actually said in the longer version of that conversation is here's who I think the losers, the nothings and the threats are. And so she runs back and tells them. Did I ruin your game, Genevieve? No. Because I feel bad now. It's never good when you give someone the ammunition to go, hey, Andy, Genevieve called you a loser.

So yeah, don't be as direct as I am. The problem is I wear my thoughts on my face and then sometimes- What about the theory? Do you feel like the theory of the losers, the nothings and the threats is valid though? 100%. Okay, alright. 100%. Oh dang!

The silver lining. This is silver lining. Wait, you just gave a ding to yourself though. No, it was for you! No, it was for me! It was for you! For you! Okay, fine was for me. It's for you. Okay, fine.

High five myself. Okay, but back to you, Genevieve. Okay. But no one's don't say that if you are in the game. Don't say hey, I think you're the losers. Don't say it. Don't say it. Yeah.

Okay. So, I mean, kind of backfires on Andy when he's like, okay, Rachel, you're one of the threats. You have to go home. Well, so here's the thing. Like guys, did I make Andy, I know he says it's laughable. Genevieve called me like saying I don't have a chance of laughable or whatever,

but did I kind of make him insecure and thus a little more froggy and thus Operation Italy happened? No, probably not. Probably not at all, actually. The thing that made me nervous about playing with Andy is he's such a fan of the game, and Teeny is a bit of this too,

but it was never as overt as it is with Andy. We'd be out there and Andy would say, oh, we're on episode nine. Or, oh, it's gonna be a straightforward vote. It's gonna be a straightforward vote. It's going to be a boring episode. And I found that so jarring when we were out there. And it always made me question, like, are you here or do you have one foot on the couch of what people are going to see? And is that going to change your motivations? Because one of the things, the piece

of advice that survivor players have heard time and time again is, well, people are always going to do what's in their best interest. But what's their motivation? What is in their best interest? Is it to get to final tribal? Is it to win final tribal? Is it to like, I don't know what it is to do. And so the people who I couldn't figure out that for

were the people that I was most nervous about working with. And Andy, you can tell when you speak to him, he's extremely brilliant, but he's just not predictable. And I like consistent, predictable, methodical, we're gonna go with the plan and we're all trying to do the same thing. So, yeah. Yeah.

Oh. All right, well, you're gonna spend time with Andy and with Sam on Operation Italy. And in talking with Sam, he talked a little bit about some of the work that went into the pre-production of Operation Italy, of talking it through, before that he even wins the reward challenge. From your perspective, how locked and loaded did you feel like you were for

what's going to come to pass on Operation Italy heading into the reward challenge? I really wanted it to be teeny for all the reasons I just said, I was so nervous about Andy, but I had so much goodwill built up with Sam. Sam was, is, will always be like the most incredible person I worked with in the game. And we had so much fun and he had built up so much goodwill with me that I was willing to work with Andy. But you will see a little bit in the episode

when Andy's talking, I am like silent and almost expressionless because I just don't feel it. And so I do warm up to Andy throughout the evening, but when I'm nervous or I don't trust someone, like I keep my cards really, you know, close, hidden. And it took a while for me to open up. The planning ultimately got to the phase where it was really, really fun, really detailed.

But I was always saying in my confessionals, like, I just don't know if this is gonna work. Like, I just don't know if this is going to work. Like, I just don't trust Andy. And I think he's the type of player who, like, you know, when you're putting your dog down and you want to give them one less good day, I think that might be what Andy's doing to me and Sam.

And this is all just like super fun, but not going to work out. So I was relieved when Caroline's name was read. But until it was, I was like, was like, this could be a total bust. Well, you had a lot to do after you got back to camp from Operation Italy, because Sam gives you an idol. What did you do to Sam's idol to make it be a different idol? So Sam had given me all these ingredients to go do some crafts, which I love.

I'm a crafty girl. And so he had his original idol. He had also some tree male string and we get beads on our tree male string that wraps up the note. So he had collected a bunch of this stuff and given it to me. But the problem was the idols had different colored string, and the tree mill string was a brown color, but we had paint from the flag.

And so part of the very detailed Operation Italy plan was, you guys stand at the far edge of camp and tell people about the reward. They will all be looking at you. The paint is under the base of this tree. I will put my bag there, quickly grab the purple paint, put it in my bag, and then I will scoop the paint out, put it in the pocket of my cargo shorts with the string,

and kind of swoosh it around. Thus, I will have a purple string, and it will become a very believable idol because there's no purple string on this beach. And we had done all of that. The guys did a great job, lured everyone's eyes over there. I grabbed the paint, try and open it so I can scoop some in my pocket, spill it all over the inside of my bag.

Yes. You have a Sue situation. So yikes. Yeah. I bit my tongue so hard in my bag. And then whatever, the bag's purple, my socks are purple. I still scoop some, put it in my pocket. And then I have to wait a bit as they're telling the story so I can organically wait for a

time that seems normal, go down to the water and I'm like swooshing the string in my pocket. But it's so hot, the paint has immediately dried. So I've only coated my pocket in paint. The string is still like as brown as it was when Sam gave it to me. So it was it was a horrible mess. But that's why I was down at the water for so long, which ultimately see teeny come down, we have this awkward conversation where I like, quote unquote, threaten teeny because I won't guarantee that

my vote. And then teeny leaves and I still stay by the water, which looks suspicious. And ultimately, when you see teeny ask, like, well, where's the note? How do you know it's real? And that kind of sets the water, the water, but operation Italy was a very intricate plan. The short answer, which I could have just given you instead of telling you all the things I did wrong was as part of this kit, I ultimately realized there was a black string and I use it with a bunch of the leftover beads and craft the idol. Yeah. You get a very close call and Teenie wants to see the idol. You like take it out

and then Sam is like, oh, he's coming. He's coming. He's coming. And you put it back into the pocket. So you had to also do a good job of like convincing Teenie that this was a, you know, a real idol because you are kind of getting called out about you know whether or not you're going to play the idol tonight and Teenie wants Sam to go home. So Teenie wants you to burn your idol. So there's a lot of moving parts here for you. There were, there were. And one of the things you also don't see and I was so annoyed at the guys for doing this is we had said like as Sam and I are on the path, we can see Teenie's coming up and Andy's coming up.

And I said, okay, guys, just don't leave me alone with Teenie because Teenie won't, like, pry on this fake idol thing in front of Andy too much. So just don't leave me alone and we won't have to have a big conversation with it. Teenie walks up, we do this, what you see on TV, Sam, and we start shuffling, but we do move down to a different spot on the path.

And then Andy reenters and the guys go, okay, we'll meet you guys back at camp. You guys go that way, we'll go this way and do specifically what I had asked them not to do. And I'm left with Teenie and Teenie is pressing me more on this fake idol. And I feel so awful about this because it was like really manipulative in the moment.

But Teenie and I had had that like, are you threatening me fight? And so when Teenie's asking me more questions about the idol, I was like, yeah, we can talk about this more. But what I really wanna talk about is our fight from earlier, cause I'm really upset about it. And then we pivot to talking about that.

And it was like, so, you know, I accused Teenie of using their weapons as an emotion, but like I definitely did that at that moment. So I'm sorry, teeny, if you're listening to this, which I know they will, because they're a huge fan. So I'm so sorry. Okay. All right. So Operation Italy is a big success. Do you feel like that if Rachel would have gotten out at that, had Rachel not won immunity there, do you feel like that that could have opened the door for you to win? Instead of, instead of paralleling going home?

Never really like, like wait, win the challenge or win the game? On Operation Italy, because I think that the big, the big thing it was like, uh, that if you could, that the plan is originally to get out Rachel, but Rachel wins immunity. But if you could have somehow gotten out Rachel at that spot, do you think that the big, the big thing it was like, uh, that if you could, that the plan is originally to get out Rachel, but Rachel wins immunity. But if you could have somehow gotten out Rachel at that spot, do you think that the door is open for a Genevieve win? Of the entire game? Yes. I never really saw a Genevieve win. If I'm being totally honest, like I,

I think probably the way I played it was the path that would have given me the highest likelihood of getting there. I mean, if Rachel goes home there, even if she doesn't, if Rachel doesn't have the auction idol, then she goes home at six. When you win in the end. Right. Yeah. Instead of instead of Andy, then I think I've got a good shot at winning the next challenge just based on the nature of it. And because it was Rachel and I really close and then I'm at least making fire, which probably would have lost in quite honestly. But but I never really thought there was going to be a Genevieve win. And there is there is a psychologist that comes with this experience. And the advice before the show,

she's a lovely lady, advice before the show started and you're in Fiji is, picture yourself at the end, try and imagine what it's gonna be like sitting in Final Tribal. And I had this whole debate with her because I was like, I absolutely refuse to do that. I will not do that. I will not tempt myself with that thought.

All I can think about is I'm gonna be the first one out and anything beyond that is gravy. I really mean it. And I had written myself a letter to read on night three when I got back to Ponderosa. I still have it because I like was prepared to lose. And I think if you're going to go out and play survivor, if you're not prepared to lose, you're not prepared to play. And if you can't picture what's going to happen, when you don't win,

you're going to end up like hurting yourself or hurting other people. You're gonna be pissed off at people in the cast. You're gonna not be in a good head space. So you'll be pissed off around the people you love, or you'll take it out on yourself and sort of implode like silently when you come home. So have your, obviously picture your win if you want to.

That's fun, I've done that. You know, I've done a fun, a few fake final tribal speeches in my car. Never once I actually got cast, I wouldn't tempt myself that's fun. I've done that. I've done a fun, a few fake final tribal speeches in my car. Never once I actually got cast, I wouldn't tempt myself with that, but I've done it. In the shower, you're washing your hair and you're like, yeah, look it, I have six idols. But also prepare yourself for what if you go home first?

What are you gonna do? How are you gonna manage that? And be prepared for that whole spectrum of experience, I think, would be helpful. So, I don't know. What do you think, Rob? I don't know. I'm like, I'm always fucking helpful. So, what do you think, Rob? I don't know. I would love to tell you, but I'm so mindful of the time. But I love every ring the bell for, you know, echo everything you just said.

So you and Rachel, you talked about how this is like, you know, Harry Potter and I'm not sure if you said it or if she said it that that. I would not call myself Baltimore. I'm not sure. I don't or if she said it. That relationship. You said it. I would not call myself Voldemort. I'm more of a Professor Snape. I know because she said who was who. I'm a character. Yeah, okay. But in terms of, I saw the Slytherin pictures

of at Universal. And I will, so sorry to interrupt, I will let you finish this question in one second, but I actually have it here, not intentionally, but it sits in my office. One of the first things Rachel spent her millions on was a Professor Snape wand for me at Universal. So thank you, Mama Rachel.

Yeah, thank you, Rachel. But the rivalry between the two of you, I think that so many of us thought that was like a really cool part of the season. What did it mean for you to go toe to toe with Rachel? It was really fun. Like it. I don't know. From my personal experience of growing up, my parents were really supportive, but the general messaging from the world, I think, can sometimes be like, women should not be that competitive. And it's really fun to be competitive in a healthy way.

And I love it. It's something that makes me feel super alive. Even if I fail at something, I get addicted to just like the opportunity to be successful, like opportunity to compete, you know. And it was fun and it always felt respectful, but still intense, still very, very genuine rivalry. But yeah, it was fun. It was fun.

So when you come out of the game and you are sitting at the final tribal council, is there any pause for you about potentially now Sam is the person that you worked closer with, but Rachel is your number one rival. Was it an easy decision for you to vote for Rachel? Um, honestly, it was cut and dry for me because of what I valued as a juror. And so based on my personality type, I love and value control. And I was going to vote for the person who I felt held the paintbrush the most and dictated the picture of season 47 the most.

And that was Rachel. I think there's something to be said for whether or not you feel headwinds or tailwinds more acutely and more forcefully. You know, like Sam working with me, maybe if he was working against me, I would have felt like a bigger force from that. But I will say, I've said it to both of their faces,

Sam had a better final tribal than Rachel. He is an incredible speaker. That's why I was afraid of him and didn't think that it was a cut and dry win if I sat there with Sam because he is so compelling. It's incredible. I forget that he's not like a 40 year old guru when I'm like, how are you 24? You have the mental and emotional aware with all of like someone so

much more mature than me. But incredible. He is incredible. He is incredible. But but Rachel's game was like undeniable from a control perspective. And that's what I valued. But that's what that's what playing survivor is about. And I think that's why it's so difficult to know what the jury is going to do, because everyone has their own like hidden rubric. And you think you can guess what Genevieve the jurors going to value. But so much of what you saw of me, if you're out there on Becca beach

at the merge, is not who Genevieve is. So, how do you really know what's going to hit home for me and vice versa with all the other jurors? So, it's a bit of an art and not a science and I much prefer science. If you and Sam could have somehow made it through the final five and gotten to the final four, there's a secret scene where Sam says that he wants to take you out in fire making. Who do you think would win fire making between you and Sam? The two people who forgot to practice making the fire.

Oh my gosh, whoever they gave the lighter to first. No, but Sam ultimately won his, so he probably would have won. If I had been there, one of the things I've spoken about with Rachel is I would have been in that situation and let's say it's me, Rachel, Sam and teeny and I win, I would have taken Rachel to try and undermine her one because she's amazing at fire. So why give her that?

But also I thought that was my best shot at winning is carrying Rachel and being able to like undermine her game in that way. But no, I don't think I would have done well at any of that. Genevieve, we have just a couple of minutes left in our time. One, could you show the people your survivor 47 manicure in case they missed it during the, or at least hold your hands up while you tell us anything else you want people to know about your game. Does this work? So there's one hand that's Lavo and there's one hand that's Becca and I'm right handed. So the Becca hand is very detailed. The Lavo hand is more of a mess,

which you did it yourself. It's kind of on brand for the Lavo tribe. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Well, what else don't we know about Genevieve's game? Okay. Nothing. Nothing.

We know it all now. You know it all. And I feel like these times when I get to just speak and no one's really stopping me or I'm not stopping myself, the like mystique of Genevieve the player, which people think is like so capable, sort of wears off and you're like, Oh, that's Genevieve. And it's all a bit of a blur. And when I watch it on TV, like if it wasn't on TV and I didn't have video proof, I wouldn't And it's all a bit of a blur. And when I watch it on TV, like if it wasn't on TV

and I didn't have video proof, I wouldn't have believed that I did any of these things. This was my personality. And even if it's on TV, I still get imposter syndrome about it. So I think it's been a fun experience and hearing from the people I played with what they think about me has been so nice. It's not how I see myself.

The imposter syndrome prevails, but I appreciate all the nice things you guys have said, all the nice things people say online. I do see some of it. I try not to see any of it because I'm just generally afraid of the internet and all the things people say on it, but I see some of them and it's awesome. But Survivor is tough and another thing, if you're going to go out and play, I think it's important to understand that your experience as a viewer is as a viewer and when you go and you're out there as a player, it is such a different thing. And the game is so different than the product that's on TV. The editors do an amazing job of distilling it to the relevant facts that you need

in order to understand the outcome. But there is so much out there. And when you're playing, that experience is for you and go all out and love it. And the TV experience, like, let people have their opinions and they might hate you, like you, whatever, but this phase is for them. So let them enjoy it.

Well, Genevieve. I'm the judge, everyone on 48. No, just kidding. Just kidding. Get ready. All right, Genevieve, you have such a great attitude about the whole experience. This was such a fun chat to go over this all with you.

Thank you for taking the time to do this. Anything else you want people to know or check out? Oh my gosh, check out everyone who was on my season because they are online and they do amazing things, post amazing photos, they're amazing people. The closest I ever came to wanting to get a Twitter account was when like some of the people I love deeply on my cast were getting crap online and I just wanted to like make an account, go all

scorched earth because these people are amazing. So like, don't, don't diss my cast. Okay. You heard it here. Don't diss my cast. All right, Genevieve, thank you so much. Thank you all so much for listening. We love to read what you have to, Genevieve won't read the comments. I will. So go ahead and leave them on Robin's website.com slash YouTube. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.