RHAP: We Know Survivor - Is Cirie the Survivor GOAT?

Episode Date: July 5, 2026

Is Cirie the Survivor GOAT? Can someone who never won the title still be the greatest to ever play? That’s the big question as Rob Cesternino and Mike Bloom square off for a deep-dive debate on Survivor 50, putting Cirie Fields’ extraordinary record under the microscope. In this “Who is the GOAT?” discussion, Rob and Mike explore Cirie’s influence on Survivor’s history, her singular style of subtle control, and the heartbreaking twists of fate that have kept her from the million-dollar prize—even as she secures her place as a legend. Survivor 50 sets the stage for a heated conversation as Rob makes the case for Cirie’s goat status, arguing that what sets her apart isn’t just her social mastery, but her unmatched ability to shape votes and build consensus, often without ever holding an idol or advantage. Mike pushes back, highlighting moments where Cirie’s endgame collapses—not through her own fault, but due to twists, challenge woes, or the very social prowess that makes her so threatening. The episode dives into the specifics of her gameplay across seasons: from near-impossible tribals where she gets what she wants, to back-breaking blindsides, and her evolution across the changing landscape of Survivor. – Rob Cesternino and Mike Bloom weigh Cirie’s effectiveness in Tribal Council influence and strategic social play – The Game Changers “Advantage-geddon” and why fate, not flaws, might be Cirie’s biggest roadblock – Survivor 50’s endgame: Did Cirie finally find her path to victory, or was it another near-miss due to Ozzy’s misstep? – Debate over whether Survivor is meant to reward challenge strength, social play, or a combination of both – Cirie’s impact on the show’s narrative, including her iconic “spirit of Survivor” moment and how she helped shape Survivor’s focus on growth and resilience With Survivor 50’s jury still out on what it means to be the greatest, Rob and Mike wrestle with whether Cirie’s string of close calls and powerful moves outweigh the missing final win—and if the story of Survivor itself is now tied to players like her who changed the game’s very definition. Will Cirie’s subtle genius and epic Survivor arc be enough to finally crown her as the true GOAT? Tune in to watch how this debate plays out and cast your vote on who really deserves the title! Chapters: 0:00 Cirie Joins Survivor GOAT Debate 2:10 Can Non-Winners Be The GOAT? 7:22 Cirie’s Vote Influence Examined 10:32 Butter Metaphor for Cirie’s Game 12:13 Does Circumstance Doom Cirie’s Endings? 15:07 Cirie’s Panama Endgame Scrutinized 19:30 Game Changers: Advantagegeddon Analysis 25:44 Survivor 50: Ozzy’s Crucial Mistake 28:40 Cirie’s Winning Path In Survivor 50 33:37 Is Cirie Just a Useful Pawn? 34:18 Micronesia’s Final Three Twist 38:22 Cirie Receives Spirit of Survivor Award 48:02 Cirie’s Arc Changed Survivor Forever 53:05 Cirie: Survivor GOAT or Traitors Legend? 58:06 Cirie’s Social Game vs. Well-Roundedness 1:03:47 Fan Vote: Decide the Survivor GOAT 1:05:27 Survivor Talk Shifts To Big Brother To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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And today we're talking about somebody who I think in my mind has not traditionally been part of this conversation since we have had the more recently canonized Survivor Mount Rushmore, a fifth inclusion in this discussion. Surrey Fields coming off of Survivor 50. I've been looking forward to this conversation throughout the whole series and back with us to talk about it. Give it up for our goat, Mike Bloom.

Meh. Yes, Rob, thrilled to be here, trying to prove that I may not always be able to beat him with this, but I can always beat them with this. Yes, and for the people listening to the podcast, their mind is racing. What did he point to?

Let's just leave it enigmatic. Let's have people fill in the blanks. Yeah. Okay. So today we're talking about Surrey. We have done a episode talking about Tony, Sandra, Rob, and Parvety over these last four weeks. But today we round out our discussion with Surrey.

We'll give you a link at the end of the episode where you can vote for who you think is the goat, may be persuaded by some of these conversations, but probably already locked in from the start. Much like a lot of jury votes, Rob. We could say what you want to a travel council, but not much might be up in the air. We're going to do the podcast anyway.

And I think that this is a really fun discussion to have today because you have Surrey who is not a survivor winner, but can we talk about if she is the survivor goat? At the end of the last podcast, we flipped a coin the whole way through. And for the fourth time in five weeks, Mike Bloom was tasked with making the case why Surrey is the goat. But after a week of arm twisting and begging. and pleading with Mike Bloom. He has graciously

agreed to let me make the case for why Seri is the greatest player of all time. So this whole series isn't just Mike Bloom making the case over and over again, why this person is the greatest person of me saying, no. Well, yeah, let's pull back the curtain a little bit here, Rob.

I did try to play your coin that you so graciously lent to me against you to argue on Seri's behalf, but then you had me read the text back on the back of the coin would show that it was non-transferable. And so unfortunately, I was not able to do so. So you were arguing pro-Serri, and also from a more realistic perspective,

look, you have had to do the Lord, I mean, Jeff's work sometimes, especially when it comes to some of these people like Pardy, Tony, Boston, Rob, and making arguments that I know you yourself don't agree with before the sake of this exercise. So I figured it should be my turn a little bit. Surrey is my favorite survivor player.

of all time. I think it makes sense that we try to even things up a little bit more and provide you an opportunity to truly bring us home and talk about somebody who, yeah, as you mentioned,

look, when there are people have made their sort of metaphoric Mount Rushmore, Surrey has been thrown in there sometimes even though she is not a winner. But I think, you know, one of the whole reasons for this entire exercise

was canonized by one Aubrey Brocko in the penultimate episode of Survivor 50, Ceres, most recent, and probably final appearance, in Survivor proper when she called her the greatest player of all time, even better than some of the people we talked out

in this series, in Sandra, in Tony. So Rob, you are here to really cement Aubrey's argument. She did play with Tony and Game Changers, so maybe she doesn't have the full sample. So if you ask Ceres, she doesn't remember that, though. Yeah, okay? So I'm talking about for Aubrey.

Aubrey was there on the beach with Game Changers, Tony, so maybe she doesn't have the best sample size. All right. But anyway, I'm so excited to talk about Surrey, because I think that there is an interesting case to be made, why Surrey is the greatest player of all time, because I think that almost every single person would say, okay, well, the person who wins the season deserves to win, but I think almost every survivor fan would say, I bet that there are times when the best player of the season was not the winner. Yeah, I would agree with that.

I think that when it comes to the overall body of work, I think that there are certainly players who have more bullet points in their column, whether they be impressive moves, they made, relationships they made, but for one reason or several, they are not able to make their way to the end and speak to those points.

You know, I think oftentimes the person who wins, deserves to win out of the group that is there in the end. But I think depending on who you ask, it may not be necessarily indicative of, okay, this means that by default, they are the best player of the season. Everything they did prove that their gameplay was supreme over others. So if there are certainly players

who were the best players in their season, who weren't the winners of their season, isn't it also plausible that the best survivor player could be somebody who just happens to not have won. You mentioned happens, though, and we could certainly get into the number of circumstances. On paper, I could agree about this to a certain extent on a seasonal aspect.

You know, we talked about poverty last week, and I think that Sandra deserved the win that she did in Heroes versus Villains, but that is certainly an argument as well of like, okay, Sandra is the winner, was Parvety the best player that season? And I think certainly there are a number of seasons, something to Seri's credit that we can say, yes, she was the best player that season in terms of day one to day 24, day 38,

whatever time she unfortunately is taken out right before the jury. But I don't know, Rob, I'm just a simple man with a loud voice and a floral shirt on. And I believe personally, I'm a mean potatoes guy that I think the greatest player of all, all time from someone who has played Survivor six times, you know, more than a fifth of Survivor's overall run if we're counting Australia. Yeah. Should be somebody who maybe one. I would say base level made it to a final tribal council.

I would love the greatest player of all time to be somebody whose jury experience is not being surrounded by seven, eight or nine other people voting alongside them for the winner of the season. Which she has voted for correctly in every single time that she has cast a jury vote, but I digress. I mean, does that speak more so towards the fact that people are able to utilize Ceri's talents and be able to push past her and succeed, draft off of that goodwill? I think it speaks more to the fact than way, way more often than not. And I don't have the exact percentages. Surrey is a survivor player who gets what she wants. And I think that that is one of the most important metrics that we should look at, that there are lots of different ways to try to

assert your influence on the vote. But no matter how you slice it, that Surrey has been exceedingly effective about how she goes about making her vote happen. And she does it with a very subtle influence that I don't think that anybody else in the history of the game has been able to been able to do it in quite the same way. I think back to our conversation about Sandra and the things that I talked about with Sandra about how she doesn't get voted out and she's able to adapt to whatever goes on.

I think that Surrey has that to some degree, but she has an agency to which that Sandra, I think late stage Sandra ultimately evolved to become more like a Surrey. She doesn't have the softer edges that Surrey has. And so it's kind of a weirder combination of that she has taken the original Sandra game and then evolved it to assert more agency.

But Surrey has always been smooth as butter and has always been warm and bringing people in. But she uses that social game as currency to be able to get what she wants to have happen time and time again. You heard it from Jeff Proops himself. on the stage at the Survivor 50 reunion about how the producers who have been there filming season after season, they would

go back on the walkie like, I don't know how she's doing this, but she's doing it again. We don't even understand what's happening. These are the people that make Survivor. It's not even the edit. In the real time, people are mesmerized with what she's able to do as a player.

And so we're not here to crown the greatest winner of all time. But in terms of the person who time in and time out, tribal council after tribal council, I believe 43 times, I believe, has gone to tribal council and voted out the person that she wanted to go home. Please tell me my facts are right on this. It is a number higher than anybody else and is an incredible feat. I think that speaks to the incredible effectiveness of her game. I mean, I definitely agree with you in terms of the skill set that she is able to utilize. I am in no way challenging. The Riz would be an understatement of what Sari has been able to utilize from the very beginning of her survivor career. The fact that obviously, you know,

the sliding doors moment where Timber Tina is a little less antisocial and Sari gets voted out instead of her. Frankly, I wouldn't want to live in that world because Sari being kept through that First Travel Council opens up the door for Survivor History to be made in so many ways. I think butter is honestly a very good metaphor for Surrey. Because if you take a look at like a lot of different dishes in cooking, a lot of confectionaries. Exactly. Rice. Don't talk to Surrey about the rice. Butter is always like a very key ingredient, right? It's a binder. It feels like something that needs to be involved in everything. And I do think, Indeed, there are very few times in Ceri's Survivor career where she has been truly blindsided, that she has been, there have been times where maybe she has disagreed with the person who has been voted out.

But it's not like she comes back to camping, like, I am stunned. I did not necessarily think that was happening. And that speaks to the fact that she has these immaculate social skills. I think the Sandrick comparison is apt in that Ceri is probably the best social player we have ever seen. and just the way she is able to make people feel so good about her, even though for all intensive purposes, they should not. But still, they are able to bring her into the plans and at the end of the day, usually have her be able to get the name over the line that she wants to.

And so the butter, it's fantastic to have in there. Some of the best dishes across Survivor history, Surrey has been an essential part, just like butter has been in any ingredient list. but that butter every single time Surrey gets to the end of a season inevitably melts and look there are very different heat sources that we've seen across 20 years of Survivor

that caused her own fire sadly exactly that has caused that butter to melt but as much as we talk about the Murphy's law that has been Surrey's on island career so far Rob isn't there a certain point where we have to look at things and say, is this a coincidence?

You know, maybe the survivor gods have rolled a bunch of snake eyes or rat eyes, Surrey's way, for the better part of six seasons. But if we go into each one of these, how many times can we point out, okay, were these ways that Surrey, yes, lost out due to some circumstances out of her control, but also may have boxed herself into a corner

where the worst case scenario happened every single time? Well, do you want to point to an example where she boxed herself into a corner and then I can defend that? Because I feel like when we go back through everything, and maybe I could say Australian Survivor versus the world might have been that scenario. But I think in her U.S. survivor appearances, I really feel like that she was the victim of circumstance more so than she was the victim of her own bad planning. Well, let's go to her very first season here, which, look, was incredible. impressive, 3-2-1, absolutely sensational, helped, you know, change the meta-strategy, get the goat. We love it.

But she is sitting in a final four where it is her, Aris, Terry, and Danielle. Danielle has, for all intents and purposes, flipped over to Terry because she knows how tight of a pair Aris and Surrey were. Yes, Terry is the, you know, number one odds on target, but he has this super idol. Ars would be the next highest target, certainly the one that Terry wants to get out.

But Ars is also the second best challenge performer out of this entire group. He's no captain of sports. And so, yes, the first of many tragic circumstances that Saraje will go out is due to this firemaking, not the last time that this will happen. But you also have to wonder, like, A, you know, being in this scenario

where there's a good chance that Aris wins, and then her name is on the chopping block, is that a situation that you ideally want to go to the end? But the other thing is, let's say that she wins this firemaking against Danielle, right? Let's say she is able to prevail. If we look at how the final immunity challenge works out, Terry actually lasted longer than Aris is. And maybe Surrey wins this final immunity challenge.

But if Terry wins that challenge, he wins the game. I think even if he goes to the final two with Surrey, Terry just has this narrative, he has the lamina people on the jury. he would have won six immunity challenges at that point. So I think that in maybe a couple cases where we talk about, like, if Saria just made it one day further or made it to the end, she would have locked up the jury's votes, I think this was not necessarily an end game that favored her in her first season.

Yeah, I don't know what she was supposed to do differently in terms of how Panama ends up working out. It is going to be tough for her to be able to get to the final two with any of those people, we're going to see Survivor change it to a final three. I think that people have said that they want a Terry type to get to the end, but I think it also could be that it improves Ceres chances to ultimately get to the final three. Look at her power in terms of being a person who's changing the game, although we'll talk about that more when we get to fans versus favorites. But I think she does the best she can with the circumstances that are there. Don't forget that

Terry also has the super idol, which is an issue that Terry would not have even been at that point in the game if he didn't have the Tyler Perry's super idol at that point. So for Ceri, I don't know how she could get to the final two. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19-speaker AKG surround audio system. This city demands agility and optic delivers with precision to make every drive extraordinary.

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And this is going to be a weird one, right? because this is the flukiest way anyone has gone out of the game in Survivor history. This is Advantage Get In, Immunity Train, whatever you want to use from it. And I am by no means defending this. I am staunchly anti-advantage Get-in. But damn it, this is the role that I have chosen for myself. And I'm going to play it with a plumb here. Because, of course, as we know, horrifically,

Surrey ends up going home because she is the only person. without immunity, without a trinket. Obviously, if these things existed differently or did not exist, maybe things go a different way. But I actually think that the more I was kind of studying Ceres seasons, game changers might actually be her weakest game. Because I look at, again, she was able to wield some power, sure. She has a really nice move flipping Sarah Lascena at the final 11 to go after Debbie

and helping break up this sort of new majority alliance. But I would say that there are a couple of moves that she makes that are maybe a little unnecessary in the post-merge. She has people like Zeke and Andrea, who are very firmly in her corner, who she chooses to cut bait on. The Andrea decision in particular is really interesting because that's one of the few times Brad Cole Pepper is vulnerable

in that post-merge where he loses immunity, and I believe they had just sent Sierra, Dawn Thomas Englam to the jury. as well, which would have been a vote and was a vote, I think, in Brad's corner. And so you think this is a prime opportunity, a la Ozzy, perhaps, not in game changers, in Micronesia, take a shot at him. Instead, she follows along with the flow, takes out Andrea here, and the very next thing she does, which is audacious. And we love it. And so why she's a game changer.

But she gets this vote steal from Sarah, which is incredibly admirable, shows, again, how the relationship she had brokered with Sarah paid off in the long run. that Sarah says to trust you, here is my advantage. And she makes this big gambit, and it's one of the few times it blows up in her face. It pisses Sarah off because she was trying to use her own advantage against her. It pisses Ty off. Yeah.

Because remember, Ty, she had basically said, like, you're in danger. Don't worry, we're going to try to get the votes away from you, only for Sarah to still steal Ty's vote at the end of the day. and it also results in Ceres right-hand woman, Michaela, getting voted out. It was one of the most confusing votes in Survivor history. I still don't know if we remember the exact circumstances, but I think what we've sort of taken away as a connotation is that sort of in retribution

for Ceri trying to pull this stunt, Sarah helps sort of lead this ad hoc charge to take out Michaela. And listen, again, I don't think her nor anyone could have foreseen what was going to happen the next day. but there is a remote possibility that tie, two idle tie going on right now, says I can protect myself. Who could I use this other idol on? What's to say that if he does not feel as burned by Surrey

in that moment, that he doesn't play the idol on her? There's a lot there. And we're not even at Advantage Get In. We're at the vote prior to Advantage Get In. And we have a bit of a technicality here where that Sarah gives the advantage to Surrey to hold, and then she goes to use it and then gets called out of,

it says this is non-transferable, which is a stupid rule. Can we be real about that? That there was a stupid rule, a stupid technicality. They caught her on the fine print on that one. But if it worked, and it should have worked, It was like a little bit of like the stupid thing in the fine print,

which is not good game design when, you know, you have to go back to actually, there's a rule if you read on the top of the box. And so we were robbed that night of it being like an all-time great move. You say that, okay, well, Sarah Lassino, oh, she stole Sierra Don Thomas's legacy advantage. But for Surrey to, and then she went to, did she try to vote out, Ty? Who was going to be the ultimate? She wanted to use, I think initially used Sarah's vote steal to vote out Sarah, where she, I think she had like her tie, Aubrey and Michaela. I think she believed on her side to take out Sarah.

Okay. Well, then now she goes on after that vote and she's probably going to win the season. So I think it was a worthwhile gambit. She was foiled by a technicality. And then we go into the next round where then she pulled off a three, two. one vote split on, I believe, on Sarah, right? And she's going to take out Officer Sarah. She's identified her as the person who is likely to win.

And we all know how Advantage Get-in works out. I mean, she's doing incredible, amazing things. And she's getting beat by a bunch of rules, Mike. I mean, listen, all the best people have gotten beaten by a bunch of rules. and it's really tragic circumstances, absolutely. But you do have to wonder, you know, we look back to the brief giving of the vote steal in a non-transferable way.

And that speaks to, again, the social cachet that she has. We even look at Survivor 50, where Ozzy is able to do the same thing to flat out give an extra vote to Surrey because he felt so good about her. But could there have been a world, where the cachet extended so far at the final six where it could have protected her as well.

You know, where again, Ty could have used an idol on her if he wanted to. I also wonder in this world if, you know, Advantage getting doesn't happen and she survives until the final five. I'm not sure who would go out there. Like, if Ty doesn't play one of his idols, I guess Aubrey goes out.

Is she really set for the final three? The issue was at that final six that Sarah and Troy Zan and Brom. were so locked in with one another. If all three of them survive, I don't see a world where she makes it to fourth place even. So if Sarah goes out at six, then you think that everybody just agrees to vote out Surrey?

It could be the thing. So it's, I don't know if Ty and Aubrey are going to be, they do vote with Surrey here, but I don't know, Ty might, do you think Aubrey would have gone to the end with Surrey? She certainly did not this last time out. but you know, they have a connection. They have a connection,

but I think everyone including Surrey is fully aware that she will clean up in the end. And I think that is unfortunately one of the very few flaws in Surrey's game across the board is that I think a lot of the players we have spoken about

have this clutch gene in their survivor DNA. Tony, last vote of winners at war, wins firemaking. Boston Rob, last vote of Redemption Island, wins immunity. Parvety, last vote on Australia versus the world, wins immunity. They have those abilities to say, even if I feel comfortable about my game, I have an opportunity through challenges or through an idol, depending on the mechanisms,

to be able to guarantee my safety firsthand without necessarily needing to rely on other people. Surrey unfortunately does not have that. The closest we got to it, obviously, is what happened in Micronesia. But I feel like every other season, and this is what really shot her in the foot in Survivor 50, was she named what, like two or three people in that final eight even, who would have taken Surrey to the end.

That's a lot less than a number of people who were in the game at that time. And so I do think that's something that does work against Surrey time and time again is despite the myriad ways that she has gone out, she doesn't have the ability to be able to back herself when inevitably people are like, we can't go to the end with her.

Yeah, you brought up a couple of interesting things. I'll start with the clutch gene, and this is not her forte. This is not her game. So in the same way, I can't chastise Sandra for not being a competition beast. That's just not who she is. And while I said it was a point in Sandra's favor

that she's a little bit rough around the edges and that people feel like, oh, I could beat Sandra. Like, she doesn't have that good of a social game. I do think that it does work against Ceree, that she's so good that people recognize that they don't necessarily want to go to the end with her. But nevertheless, she has found people that would take her to the end,

that would go to the end with her, and there have been circumstances that have conspired against her. And I'm glad you brought up Survivor 50, where you said that there was only a couple of people who would have gone to the end with her. But she found them, Mike. She had it all set up. She was there, and she was with Ozzy,

the one person who was just crazy enough to want to go to the end with Surrey. And because of very, bad decision making on Ozzy's part where... Which seems to be part of Surrey's legacy as well, mostly in her favor, but in this case not so much.

Yeah, that they happen to be separated, but he had the means to save himself. It's a completely different endgame if Ozzy doesn't get voted out there at the final seven. And nevertheless, he chooses not to play his immunity idol and then ultimately sets up the circumstances where after Rick Devons goes,

then Surrey is going to be taken out of the game. But in the world where Ozzy plays his idol, I think Surrey goes on to win season 50 of Survivor. That's interesting because that's only at the final eighth. Or Isaac got voted out at nine. So you think that the dominoes were set up so much? Because, yes, she found her people. She said Ozzy, she said Tiffany to a certain.

extent. But to quote the aforementioned Brad Culpepper, three does not go into eight. Well, let's talk it through because that's the final seven and that at that vote, if Ozzy does not go home, Aubrey does. Aubrey, the winner of the season is now off the game board. And so you have this alliance that Surrey has with Surrey, Ozzie, Rizzo, and Tiffany. And they have four at the final seven. And so I think that Rick Devin's still goes, they have four going into now the final seven, right? And so Rick Devin's ends up going home next, probably still. And then all that's left is Joe and Jonathan. And I don't see a scenario where once Rick Devin's is gone are, you know, even if they pull Rizzo away, who else is voting with Rizzo, Joe and Jonathan to take out Cereo? Ozzie or Tiffany?

I mean, it could be something, yes, Rob, that gets her to the final four that maybe she's able to win out on votes there. But again, I go back to that scenario, and let's say it is those four. I don't know, like maybe Ozzy wins that final

challenge, but is he bringing Surrey? If a Joe or Jonathan is able to weasel their way into the final four and win immunity, they're throwing Surrey into fire, of which we've seen multiple times she's not necessarily great at. Maybe she would beat Rizzo. And who knows, maybe without Ozzy in the game at that point,

because remember, Rizzo turned on Ozzy, he voted Ozzy out, there's a good chance at that point that maybe Rizzo feels like even with Ozzy in the game, he's made his bed, now he's going to lie on it and decides to flip on them right there, right then. Well, I feel like that either Joe or Jonathan, probably Jonathan

then goes out at the final six. And so maybe it's Joe and Rizzo at the final five. Could they potentially get Tiffany to go with them to vote out Ozzie? at the final five, I guess it's possible. But I feel like, and we don't know for sure, the odds are, I think, exceedingly high

that Surrey has a path to get to the final three if she can get through that one round where Ozzy doesn't play his idol. I think it's a path, but I think many people have had many paths, and I think it is far from the clearest path that she has had in any of her seasons. And again, she did stupendous work in 50.

I think many people, myself included during the season said, this might have been her most impressive game, not only because of what she was able to pull off in that early post-merge, but because especially at this point where she has played, what, like 115 days when she has played a record six times, that you have Jenna Lewis calling her out at the very first travel council, people looking at Jenna like she's crazy,

of like, no, I think we could keep Surrey in the game. I also do have to wonder, and again, this is not to demean Surrey's exceptional social strategy skills whatsoever. But is one reason maybe why she keeps getting taken to some of these later games, not later days, is because people realize she's not likely to win a challenge. She's not likely to win firemaking. So we just know if we get to a final four round, she's kind of easy pickings right there, right then. I think it's possible.

I don't really know where that's happening. Do you think that that was happening in season 50? I could see it to a certain extent. I mean, that's the thing, right, is that I think people like Jonathan, you know, Joe wanted to work with Surrey to a certain extent, but I can imagine that if I were one of them, I'd have an idea

in the back of my head, right? I'm like, listen, I'm fine working with Surrey right now, because I know at the final four, you know, unless the person who wins immunity is short-sighted enough to take Surrey Fields to the end, she's pretty much served up on a silver platter as that final juror once more.

I do think that there is the thought, that people get a little more fixated on the immunity threats. I think it's possible, but I don't know if people are necessarily leaving her in the game on purpose because they're not as worried about her. And then they reach a point where it's like, okay, well, we can't take her any further. I don't see a lot of evidence that that's happening. It certainly could be a factor. I would say, what I think I would give you is that in the pre-merge, I think, in season 50,

I think that one of the things that helped her was that I think that the play are very aware at how beloved Surrey is. And I think that there was almost like a, I'm trying to think of what the right word is of that nobody wanted to be a person that took Surrey out of season 50. I don't think that people were necessarily big game hunting. I think that other than Jenna Lewis, I think that, and I don't think that General Lewis was specifically big game hunting,

I think that she was willing to do it. But I think that Jenna Lewis is kind of offline in, a way where she wasn't worried about, okay, that the mob of fans will come for me if I take out Surrey. And I think that that also worked in her favor in season 50. Yeah, I mean, there is, when Rizzo, I think, talked to both of us about this, about why he wanted to kind of work with Surrey in the first place. He does point out this trend that you alluded to earlier of Surrey's notable success rate when it comes to her close allies. Obviously, we had Aris. in Exile Island, poverty in both Micronesia and Australia versus the world.

Sarah Lascena in Game Changers, again, people might not necessarily remember that relationship, but it was so tight that Sarah gave her this vote steal. So it does almost seem like, Surrey, again, is an incredibly skilled player in her own right, but you could see people want to utilize her, you know, be able to be like, okay, even outside of that meta reasoning like you're talking about of like, I don't want to become, you know, the ire of Survivor Twitter for being the one to take out

Surrey before everyone eventually agrees to like shoulder the blame together and do so. I also do think there is some value in her as just like a tool to use in the game of like, well, listen, I know Sarie, if I want to have something happen, I can utilize

Surrey to help get that across because she's able to have those relationships. And again, if a scenario happens to pop up where she's left unimmune, in a scenario like we saw with the time she was voted on in 50 where Tiffany was the person who was going to go

but she has the clutch gene pulls off a victory and then Ceri goes great I'll just sort of like you know vote her out thank her for all the fish and then be able to move on and claim the victory myself

yeah I think it's hard to parse if that is the thing but I don't believe that people are saying that they are working maybe Rizzo could be the exception of

I am only working with her because I know she gets close to the end, and then I'll, you doinkle the win at the end. You doinkle, is that the new Gen Z term? I've heard my son say that. I believe I'm using it correctly. Yes. You doinkle. I don't want to turn it into this.

Yeah, of course, talking about Surrey, who was on the older women's tribe in her first season. This is the perfect time to bring in this of Gen Z talk. We haven't talked about Micronesia in terms of how that ultimately played out where we had Surrey goes to the final three with Amanda

and Parvety and they're ready to go be the final three and so for the first time since Surrey's first season we say actually it's going to be a final two and look this was something that again was out of Surrey's control I don't think production has corroborated

this but I think the popular theory right is that because of the number of alarming medevacs and quits. Most recently, James, you know, leaving due to his finger, something that Surrey pointed out in the moment. Ironically enough, Rob, all the medical situations could have screwed the nurse out of a million dollars. Yeah. And so it's an unfortunate situation. I think it's unclear whether or not Surrey would have won in a final three vote. We've been talking about this a few times with the Parvety episode. And it's fair to debate. it, but I do think that

you would have loved to have seen it, right? I mean, absolutely. And what Serribe was able to pull off was great. But I don't think that, I think that does a bit of a disservice to the relationships that both Parvety and Amanda were able to make as well. Listen, I know Eliza

certainly had some fiery words to them in the moment about how antisocial the two of them were, something that has continued in time in memoriam. But I do think that, you know, Natalie and Alexis had a really tight bond with Parvety. Obviously, Amanda had a really tight bond with Ozzy as well as James from a previous season.

So that's what makes this so up at the air, right? Unlike maybe a couple of other series seasons that we can speculate about loosely, the irony is, Rob, the best shot she had of getting to the final day is maybe the murkiest in terms of how she would actually do, maybe versus Australia versus the world. Because I think that's a scenario where like, I think she would have gone some support from definitely Lisa and maybe like Tommy and Cass, but I do think that Parvety Lokey trans-as-her. I think that Parvety would win.

I won't even try to make the case that I think Surrey would have won the jury. And that always seemed like that Parvety had the mist over these other players more so, particularly with the Australian players, that Surrey did not really possess. And also the narrative as well, right? Parvety, we talked about this last time, the fact that she's able to say, every single tribal council I went to. Someone was calling me out about how I needed to go, and I never got a vote against me.

Parvey is able to also utilize, like, I weaponized immunity idols. I weaponized an advantage that I had, which again, like, Ceree good on her for being able to be given these things, given the very tight relationships that she's made, but this is another sort of like clutch gene that she's not able to have, right?

It's like her ability to find these trinkets. Lord knows it would have protected her, unfortunately, a game changers. Yeah. But largely she has not used or has had to use idols and advantages throughout most of her game. And she, I believe, had not possessed an idol or an advantage in any season prior to season 50 when she gets the extra vote from Ozzy. And she's able to use it to save herself to her credit. And I believe that she is the first person to ever have used the extra vote in a way to save themselves.

Yeah, I mean, certainly saved themselves. You know, there's debate as to Ricard and Shan using it on the Nassir vote to guarantee that he went home, or, you know, Marianne using it to cement the Omer vote, but certainly from a defensive position. Though maybe I thought I remembered Searie saying that she had told other people that she had an extra vote. So maybe it wasn't like she was so in danger that she had to play. I think it was more so like, okay, this this secures the fact that we can do this, two-two-two split vote without needing to worry about anything.

And just another interesting nugget about that particular vote. I recently talked to Rizzo about his game in season 50, and he actually brought that vote up as one of the reasons why he didn't want to vote for Jonathan when it came time to. I look at Rizzo as the most independent voter that was on the jury. And I was curious about his decision to vote for Aubrey or vote for Jonathan. And he felt like that it was a flaw in Jonathan's game that at the... the first part, the opening side of the power broker tribal council night, that he votes with

Surrey to vote out Emily. And here's Surrey, who's vulnerable. Rick and Emily probably would want to vote Surrey out. He could have voted with them to take out Surrey. Instead, he does Surrey's bidding. Yeah, I mean, the optics of that do not look good. It looks rather a good. It looks rather you doinkey, if you will. But I do think that it showcases the power that Surrey was able to utilize

in that moment. It really, it's really the opposite ends of the coin, the Mr. Beast coin for Surrey, right? Because on one side of the beach, she is able to utilize disadvantage and the relationships around her to escape a vote that honestly she should not have.

It was this small tribe. Rick was protected with an idol. you know, Jonathan has this immunity. She should be dead to rights. But Jonathan and Tiffany are on her side. But on the other side of the beach, the person who is the most vital to her game in Ozzy, I think the singular path forward

that she would have to take to get to that final three and win that $2 million ends up going out. And so, you know, it's a great display of what she is able to utilize, but unfortunately that ends up getting taken away from her almost immediately. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if?

Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.cair, every style, every home. Mike, I bet you wouldn't think that I would want to bring up Heroes vs. Villains. Okay, interesting because Surrey did last a grand total of four episodes on Heroes v. Values.

It happens. It happens to the great. my, and so for Surrey, I don't know if people make this case enough. She was so screwed by being on the hero's tribe. She was, she should have been on the villains tribe. She's on the tribe with people who are really preaching the honor and integrity and the loyalty. She is able to work with those people in season 50. But she is, I think, clearly seen as the least trustful.

member of this hero's tribe. Interesting. I don't necessarily agree. And if she was on the villains tribe, that perhaps she has a little more rope to work with. Well, first off, I think Parvety would have loved that because I think, if we're trying to make comparisons here, Parvety was much more screwed being a villain than Surrey was as a hero.

Because, yes, maybe there was a set of moral complication. complicity that made people feel like this is what a hero is supposed to do. But the fact of the matter is, Surrey is on a tribe with two people she had played with before, one of whom, despite her claiming like, I don't know why people think me and Amanda are close. Amanda voted me out at the final three. Come on.

Seriously, like, what are you trying to do here? You're being about as good of a liar here as Amanda was at the Heroes versus Villains. I'm not lying. I think that she would have had a better chance on there. And I think it's really a lot has to go wrong to ultimately take her out. It is not a normal vote by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, I personally think that Candice was being looked at as maybe the sketchiest out of the heroes. I know that one of the reasons why she goes out is that Tom Westman in particular is really the one that's beating this drum of like,

Ceres a very dangerous player. She needs to be taken out here, you know. And so when him and Colby and JT, tonight they made their move, and Surrey ends up going out here, I think that it's a credit to Tom, much like, yes, I'll be it without an idol play, but kind of what Surrey does to Yao Man in Micronesia, where it's like, this person is that I can see them as a personal threat.

You might think that other people are more so the immediate, you know, targets. But I can see the future as to this person getting to the end again. And so we have to take advantage of this right here and now. So obviously, yes, Surrey gets idled out here. She did not get the majority of votes. But the fact of the matter is she got enough votes. And I do think that perhaps in this case, actually, her not being able to obscure her threat level

in a way that she has so masterfully done in other seasons is the reason why she's the choice here instead of Rupert or Candice or Amanda or James. So the body of work is just so incredible in that... The body is tea? The body of work is tea. And she has played in six different seasons of Survivor, counting Australian Survivor versus the world,

and she makes it to, what, sixth place or better, five times. It is incredibly consistent. And I cannot deny that, you know, A factor that I've certainly talked about in these conversations that I like to pride a goat title upon is consistency. And I would argue maybe besides like parvety, Surrey is the most consistent survivor player of all time in terms of her being able to get to six place at the very worst every single time except for one. Especially considering that again, when we talk about the challenge weaknesses, we look at a couple of these seasons. much like Sandra, like game changers, and maybe this is the Amerit and Seria's column,

if she goes to tribal council in any one of those pre-merch challenges, she's gone. Look, Lux's a big part of the game. You know, it's nice that she gets lucky in something. Maybe that's Car MacBallensides. They got so lucky in the first half of Game Changer. They're like, okay, a few for us,

a few for you, and a lot for us. I know certainly on the original tribe that she was on, but is that true post? I know she doesn't go to a tribal council. Do you think that post-swap, she's also going to be the person who's the likely boot? All right.

So the people post-swap were, it was her on the Tavua tribe. She's with Troisanne and Sarah and Ozzy. So not with Sarah. So it's her, Ozzie, Zeke, Andrea, Trozan. And I think I'm forgetting.

She's good there. One more person. I mean, yes, but Troisand has an idol. Hmm. And we could see another scenario here where if everyone voted for Trojan and Trojan plays the idol, who's someone that he might want to gun for having single-handed power over who goes there, who's someone who did incredibly well in puzzles and was a large reason why she was able to stay safe in the premurge, but also might be somebody that if you're feeling like, if they were out of the game,

I don't think our challenges would hit a huge demurit, especially when you still have someone like Zeke in the game. It was, I'm trying to think of who's, it was Ozzy and it was, oh, Sarah was part of that group, you're right. Yeah. So I'd love to go back to the season 50 finale that we just saw where, Mike, we were there.

We saw Surrey received a beautiful trophy. An award. Glamorous. The glamorous award. She was the first ever recipient of the Spirit of Survivor Award. Yes. proving all the fruits of her labias, I mean labor,

were manifested in this beautiful sculpture that she got to held aloft. Yeah, but I do think that, and I know we're talking about the greatest player of all time, but the arc of Surrey has been one that has resonated with the fans in a way that no other player, I think, has been able to have that type of trajectory

of her story was one that she started as, of course, she famously got up off of the couch and she was afraid of leaves. Hold on. Let me, can I hold up, bro. Let me speak to that for a second because I did some re-watching this thing, some re-litigating. And I actually think that Sarie being afraid of leaves is a Mandela effect. Hmm.

Because I watched that first episode of Exile Island again. And I believe what Saris says is that she's not afraid of leave. she hates leaves. She's afraid of the things that exist underneath the leaves, that she's afraid when she lifts up the leaves that things are to come out. But the leaves themselves are...

And I actually brought this up to Sarat an interview. Like, oh, yeah, you're afraid of leaves. She's like, I am not afraid of leaves. I think that's the thing that she would, you know, address first... Forgive me for misspeaking. No, I mean, you and a lot of Survivor fans, and I'm one as well.

Again, I misspoke this to Surrey's phase, but I just wanted to... This is my prosory argument to clear the air. She's not afraid of leave. She's anti-leave, not afraid of them, but she doesn't like them. Yes, exactly. But I think that you bring up a really good point in who Surrey represents. And not to say that Survivor has always been this growth narrative forward show.

I think that certainly has been the focus a lot in recent seasons, whether it's from a returning perspective or even just from like a look what you learned about yourself being out here. but I think that Surrey is the consummate example of what that entails about somebody who never camped a day in her life and came out and became one of the biggest trail blazers that the game has ever seen. She changed the entire show in a few different ways that she ends up being a, and I know I just argued for her to be on the villains tribe in Heroes vs. Villains. But that in season 12, we also have the first ever, I'm not sure if it was Sprint, or I think it was a car fan-favored award. It was, yeah. Both her and Ozzy got cars. Yes, yes. And so they had the fan-favored award, and you probably would not have envisioned a player like a Surrey being the winner of such an award when you have a Terry who's out there winning challenges. and I think that she really did change the idea of what a fan favorite hero is. I've talked about it in The Tribe and I have spoken,

but that's a big moment in the history of the show. Then, fast forward to season 34 of Survivor. And you have the moment where Surrey is walking across the balance beam. And she does, her group, her group, It was an individual, it was a reward challenge, right? Her group doesn't end up winning. And Jeff says, hey, we're going to keep going until you get it right. And everybody waits and we see, Ceri puts her mind to it and is able to overcome her issues with the balance beam.

And she walks across the balance beam. And she has a moral victory. And I said in that moment that she actually saw. off-launched both the new era and what the show ultimately will become. Not a show about winning the game, because, listen, Mike, that's not the most important thing. The most important thing is the growth. The experience. And it was Surrey herself that changed the show.

The game is the lore. The prize is the experience. Jeff Probst himself will tell you. this. And so who has had the greatest and richest experience? Who could put a monetary value on that? But it was really, it was, it was Surrey that did all of this. And it was her arc that really did change what Survivor is. I think it certainly changed a lot of perspective into what Survivor is now. I think especially, you know, there were examples before her. I'm talking to one right now of super fans going on to the show that they love and thriving in it.

You have on the spectrum of things, the Rob Sester Nino's to the Ryan's shoulders of, hey, sometimes, I mean, it's what Saris says in her first travel council, right? Like, my advice to people who are watching this from their homes is stay on the couch. Stay on the couch. But I think that her success certainly has encouraged other people to be able to firsthand feel like, you know what, I can go on there. even if I feel like I'm just someone a layabout normal person, quote unquote, watching from home.

And I can make magic absolutely happen. I don't need to be this kooky character New Jersey cop or, you know, this smoking hot charity boxer with like charisma on charisma and the ability to, you know, bat my eyelashes and get people to do what I want to. I do think that yes, she certainly has one of the most talked about arcs in survivor history. but I don't think that should come at the cost of the other arcs that have existed across these people that we have been talking about. We talk about the Boston Robb arc as a great example as well of somebody who grew up

over the course of Survivor that we got to see during various different phases of his life. We see somebody like Parvety who was also able to check in with this show and was also able to come in as someone who didn't know anything about the game and hone and harness her skills

to be able to, you know, become a finished diamond a couple of times over. Yes, Surrey certainly has put forward an incredible narrative. But I will say, while some people are within their rights to vote on that as a juror,

I don't think we should vote on that when it comes to the greatest player of all time. I just think that it adds to her impact. And if we're talking, talking about the greatest player. She changed the show, perhaps the most of anybody, in terms of her impact. So I think it's not the only consideration, but I think it deserves at least a mention here. In terms of Surrey, though, as the goat of Survivor, we're here to debate this.

But I think there's actually little debate whether or not she is the greatest of all time when it comes to the traders. Yeah, so this was going to be kind of my weird quasi-hot take, Rob, that I was ready to come in with despite taking the anti-stance here, is that Ceree is, I think, one of the greatest reality TV players

of all time. I don't know if she's the greatest survivor player of all time. Hmm. Okay. Well, just to talk about, and I have been something I had to consider of, you know,

is Surrey better than the winner of the season of the traders that I actually played, where I played with Rob Rausch. And he was, and I think it's actually very close. I do think that Surrey is the person that I would give the edge to. I think that Rob had a little bit more of a strong ensemble at the start of the game. And I think that that worked to his benefit to not. have to do as much of the heavy lifting in the early, you know, in the first half of the game. He ultimately goes and has to do it all by himself in the second half of the game.

But I think that's Ceri coming in as a reality TV survivor player, I think probably had a little bit more of a target on her back and had more to overcome in terms of being somebody who was capable of that. And I think that the fact that she goes. to the end with not one but two people, but completely snow. Don't even talk to her after the fact. It was just such a masterclass in the first season of the Traders.

Has anyone drawn the comparison of Surrey on the Traders to Boston Rob on Redemption Island? Think about it, right? This is someone who comes in with an incredibly high profile, albeit this is a completely new show, that on paper you think, okay, if you're thinking about who has the potential to be a traitor, she would be number one with a bullet, but she's able to find these perhaps more gullible newbies or people who were fans of her in the past and utilize that reputation to go to the end with the people she wanted to and then makes a couple of brutal cut-throw moves at the end, which piss some people off.

Maybe there's a bit of a Venn diagram between Grant Matos and Ari from The Bachelor. But it is interesting in that much like we talked about with Boston Rob's, game. I think certainly the argument between Rob Rausch and Surrey is like, well, Ceree, you know, had to play with a bunch of newbies who were necessarily reality TV intelligence. You know, she was the only

survivor player, or I guess Stephanie was, but she's, you know, she was one of the only people from a competitive reality perspective in that, in that group. To which I would say, like, I actually think that, while that did make her a big target on paper, I do think that, again, Traders is such a different game than any of these.

in that it is a team game. Granted, one team is much bigger than the other one, that I think that actually endeared her to a lot of people where it's like, well, we know Ceri is good at these games. So if we believe she's a faithful, which is a big if, but if we do, she's a perfect person to work with because she can tell a lot of different things that are happening that maybe we can't.

Yeah. But I just bring up the traders because where I think if it's a easier conversation to have, is Ceree the goat of the traders. And I think that, you know, certainly there are some people that would say, no, Rob was better. But so she's already in the top two. Oh, yeah. In another show. And I think that to then bring those skill sets over to Survivor, I just think that she said the thing that she is so good at, she is better than anybody else is at the thing that she does.

Could you argue that the other people we're talking about are as good? in any one specific area that is anybody else so head and shoulders above the rest in terms of how they are in the challenges or what they do from a strategic standpoint? I'm not sure. But I do know that she's so much better at what she does than the next best person at that social manipulation that I think it outweighs what the, the areas that she is not good at. Okay, interesting.

Yeah, so this is going back to what I said before about how I think Surrey might be one of the greatest reality TV players, maybe not one of the greatest survivor players, is that I do agree that I think you talked with the Sandra podcast, right? If we run a season 100 times, her positioning her play style is going to be the one to win the most, obviously it won't be the case with Surrey

because something will happen with the brand steal and might crash and prevent Surrey from winning. But I do think that Surrey's skill set is the most useful in any given social strategy show. We haven't even mentioned Big Brother yet, but this is a season that she comes into with on paper, something that should be an advantage, but in reality it was much more of a disadvantage in her son, Jared, is still able to, you know, make a meal of that game in the first half where she's in several majority alliances is making a lot of these big decisions

with Izzy and Felicia, even if she is going back and forth, a hundred at times. And so I do think that some of the most consistent skills involved in these social strategy games in general, which is charm, which is manipulation, and which is threat management and picking perfect targets and straight out of the Boston Rob Rulbrook, convincing people that your idea is their idea, she has that on lock. I think what I go to with that statement I mentioned before is that I do think there are elements of the Survivor game in particular. As I spoke about before with Sandra, I feel like the goat should embody this more well-rounded aspect.

And look, that is never going to be Ceres wheelhouse. And it's unfortunate because I think it's just who she is. But I do think specifically there are aspects to Survivor. And again, we saw this a bit in Big Brother where she did all this fantastic stuff. But then when it comes down to a bunch of competitions like it usually does in the Big Brother endgame, she couldn't really do anything. She had her back against the wall and it's kind of feckless by the end of it. I think that Survivor is a game that possesses some of these certain aspects to it personally

that she has unfortunately not been able to really get a grasp of, which I think puts her not only out of, you know, the running for a jury vote, but out of the running for Goat. And she has been, I believe, exceedingly unlucky in the... some of these end games that we've seen. But to go back to my idea of if you simulated this a thousand times, I think that there would be some regression to the mean, where I think that she could have some normal end game luck that would result in her winning a fair number of these seasons.

I mean, that would be great. I'd like to see it happen because you'd think that'd be the thing, six seasons of Survivor, eventually you roll the dust in, times it, you know, you look at the chart, right? It almost always goes to seven. But she has been rolling quite low for the better part of 20 years when it comes to Survivor. That there is like a body of work that is completely impossible to ignore. So, and that's why it was so amazing that she was in position where Ozzie was going to take her to the end.

It would be almost unfathomable to think in her seventh time playing Survivor that she will find another mark. Who would want to? I'm going to go to the end with three. It's almost like she's missed her window. But it's the body of work, which is just so incredible. It's unimaginable that she found at least one person who was willing to do it this last time. Yes, though, to be fair, does that speak more to the meta aspect of Survivor 50? Right.

Where I do think that not to relitigate the endgame of 50 again, because Lord knows we not enough times in the past couple of months, but was it also to a certain extent of like, Surrey would be a good winner for Survivor 50. You know, obviously, I would like to win, but if I don't, like that's what Ozzy has literally said in his exopress, right? Like, I would love to, of course, finally win and get $2 million,

but if it's not me, I wish it was Sarat. What if she voices the animal that wins Survivor, the cartoon movie? Do you think that that would be their make-good that CBS finally does? I mean, maybe they felt like the award. and the fan favorite prize were the start of that. But maybe that was the lore and the voice of the new animated Survivor movie is the experience. I think so. I think so.

Get Kim Spradlin to cast who the animals should be. And I think we've got this. All right. Mike, do you have anything else that you want to say on this subject? Listen, I have been pulling myself into not having to make arguments against my beloved Surrey Field. So I will rest my case personally.

She'd she be a goat? I mean, I will say, Surrey, I absolutely adore you. You are an absolutely incredible skill player. And I do honestly believe that I think she is one of the greatest reality TV contestants of all the time. I do think if she is entering

any sort of social strategy game and you're like, what do it's going to do at least well if not win? I think you put your money on her. Now, maybe to your point, the more we're building out this experience for her, the less she's going to be able to walk onto a show

and walk out successful the way she did with the traders. But then again, Big Brother, you had a couple of people know her survival, a whole survivor and trader's resume up and down, and she still got to fifth place in the end.

So she has surprised time and time again, and no matter where she goes from here, I'm sure she'll surprise on her inevitable return to reality TV. All right. Mike, we're going to turn it over to, it's going to be in the hands of the fans. We have a vote.

That worked out well for three last time. Yes, she's the fan favorite. And we'll see who you think is the fan favorite. We're going to put up a vote. Go to robiswebiswebite.com slash who is the goat. No question mark. And... There's no question who it is.

We'll take your vote. Is it? Tony, Sandra, Rob, Parvety, or Sri? Yes. And we shall finally determine once and for all, no arguments, no rebuttals, putting a period. at the end of the sentence next week, Rob. Yeah, and we'll reveal the vote

and tell you what you thought. But Mike, this has been such a fun ride to take with you. Yeah, I totally agree. Listen, I know that obviously, you know, we could have done any sort of like regular, regular top 50 players or, you know, naming our own Mount Rushmore, but much like Australian Survivor,

we want to do things a little different. Rob, I will give complete kudos to you. This was all your idea. And I think the debate style was very fun to be able to, I think, again, everyone has played a flawed game at the end of the day depending on how you see it. And so I do think there are arguments to be made in both corners for each and every one of these people. But all that is to say

this has all been the definition of splitting hairs that we are arguing about five incredible players, arguably five of the best players in the 50 season history of this show. No matter what, it's just an honor to be nominated. Yep. All right. Mike, great work. What's coming up for you? Oh, well, it's going to be a big week, right? I would say speaking of

Surrey, her beloved Big Brother is upon us. Maybe she'll be back in the house. Things would have had to really go wrong. They would have to time travel back to 2023 and say, Surrey, you're doing it all again because I do not. I think there's a reason

why she ran screaming to the island not once but twice after playing Big Brothers that she wanted to wash her of that entire situation, much like that certain duvet that her son was using that one time. But I do think that we got a lot of stuff going on.

Of course, if you missed it, the house and theme revealed for Big Brother, there's been a lot of discussion as to what this season might entail. You could check out everything I'm doing over at Parade, including exclusive chats with Julie Chen Moonvez, with some of the alumni who were at a certain media event around

the season. I did a podcast with Terran this past week as well. about everything we know about the season so far. And certainly a lot of speculation as to what we don't know and hopefully we'll know in due time. Because by the time we check back in here, Rob, we will know the cast. It's go time.

Yep. We will know the premiere. We'll hopefully know a little bit about what the first couple of twists are involving. So a little bit of bleed from our Survivor talk into our Big Brother talk. But again, it's appropriate that we're ending on Surrey. Yep. All right. Well, this has been such a fun series.

Also coming to an end. my recap of Survivor Co-Rong with Chappelle. We are going to be finishing that up as well this week. So still time to jump in before we get to Big Brother. Coming up very soon, July 9th is the premiere date for Big Brother. So thank you so much for joining us. Talk to you soon. Take care of a good one. Bye. A lot of folks listen to Rob, it's a podcast, because they want to get smarter about Survivor. But when you want to get smarter about your money or your time, you got to check out all the hacks. The host is named Chris Hutchins. He's a financial optimizer.

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