RHAP: We Know Survivor - Jaime Lynn Ruiz Recaps Survivor 49 Ep 4

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

Jaime Lynn Ruiz Recaps Survivor 49 Ep 4 Welcome to the RHAP Survivor Post-Game Show! Coming to you the day after Survivor 49 episode, Rob Cesternino (@RobCesternino), two-time Survivor player, is joined each week by a special guest to recap everything that happened in the episode. Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor 44’s Jaime Lynn Ruiz to dive […]

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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Rob is a podcast. We've got our recap here after episode number four, and we've got a great guest here to talk about everything that's going on in Survivor 49. Of course, from Survivor 44, Jamie Lynn Ruiz is here. I'm here. Hi, Rob. I'm so happy to be here.

So excited. Can't believe it's already season 49. It's been five seasons. Yes. Isn't it? It's wild. And every, oh my gosh, it's, it's so fun to watch and kind of remember going through it. you know, especially watching yourself back.

So this season 49 people kind of watching themselves back, doing their exit press, and kind of getting used to not believing what the internet has to say about them. I think is a really key advice. Like, don't read the internet because you're all shining stars. I love 49. I mean, everybody on every season is cast for a reason. And yeah, I just love, I love this new season. It's fun.

Can't wait to get into all. of it with you and we'll talk about the reaction to this cast and what they should be thinking. I want to mention our presenting sponsor for this episode of the podcast, our friends over at Manta Sleep, makers of all sorts of great products to help you get some sleep. And Jamie is going to wave her magic wand to get you 10% off at mantasleep.com. Use promo code RHAP 49. Okay, Jamie, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you, Rob? Oh, thank you. I am a little under the weather still from being in New York. I went to New York and I was there for a week. We did the live show and I went to a wedding and had a very nice time, but I'm still a little bit just trying to fight through a cold I picked up along the way. But hopefully I feel good. I just, I don't sound great. well hopefully we can get get get through i hope i'm sending you healing vibes what can i take jamie what should i be taking right now you know what i i was actually going to say um the um the have you

done like the honey tea the i feel like that's like a voice thing honey tea yeah um eucalyptus um this just this all the soothing herbs yeah i do a lot of honey um especially if i'm not feeling so great but What do I do with eucalyptus? Is that a tea? Okay, so it, well, you can, there's eucalyptus tea that's kind of cooling, but, you know, if you have a nasal thing going on, you can do eucalyptus in your shower. Have you tried that? No.

It's so refreshing. It's like a steam spa day. It's, it is amazing. So you grab a branch of eucalyptus from like Trader Joe's or behind you, hanging in your shower. We were talking about this. I still think that this is fake. Jamie thinks it might be real. But Jamie, this is like your idol.

This is like your idol. You think it's real. And I say it's fake. Listen, seeing is believing. So, but if you get the real thing and then hanging in your shower and it kind of opens up your nasal passages. You know, the high steam, honey tea, any kind of tea with honey. You know, all of the, all of the little vocal tricks that the singers do. Yeah, all right.

I feel like, listen, I'm open to it. I'll try it. Okay, Jamie, I thought that you were such a great person to reach out to talk about what's going on here at this point in Survivor, because we were talking about this of like, oh, who should we try to reach out to? And we said, okay, who's somebody that got swapped? And there haven't been that many swaps in the new era. But we said, oh, you know what?

How about Jamie? but Jamie, in addition to being a person who survived a swap, somebody who's played the shot in the dark has been around for people getting medically evacuated. So I'm dying to know what you're thinking about everything that's going on. I have so many thoughts. Oh, my gosh.

So where do we want to start? Let's start with, I just, I kind of want to put this out there. I don't know if it's, okay, the medically evacuated issue from last episode was fascinating to me because, you know, season 44, we had two medevacs. Well, we had Bruce, episode one. And then we also had Matthew episode one that got injured. And that was just on repeat. We were seeing that over and over again.

And I don't know if it's too soon, but like I wanted to see the snake. Like I wanted to see the bite. Okay. I mean, the cameras were on. Is that too soon? Okay. So you're saying that we didn't have the footage of the snake bite and we saw Matthew fall. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, I'm saying like, yeah, it was, it ended up being the crate clickbait because I thought from the previews, I was going to see a snake bite. I was like, yes, I can't wait until that episode. And there's obviously something that happens because we see the medical team there. And then we just, and I was like, wait, did I, I need to rewind it? Did I miss something? And then we didn't get to see the bite. And then I go back to my season and I'm thinking, wow, it was kind of, you know, we saw the blood on Brutes' head, we saw the dislocated shoulder over and over and over again. And anyhow, so I don't know if it was too soon for the snake bite, something else.

I think they didn't have the footage. I think they would have shown it if they had it. I don't think that they were filming. I think he was by himself by the water. I think that what we saw in the episode, I suspect was a different time he was sitting by the water. And I don't think anybody was filming him or they didn't have the. camera on him when he actually got bit. Because I think they would have told him to move.

I think they would have said, hey, there's a snake near you. I don't think they would have just filmed it. Even though they used to back in the day say that they would film anything, I think that the producers would have told him, hey, we don't want you to die. Right. Yes. Our job security is, hangs in the balance here. Right.

And I know that they're very calm. We saw one when we were out there and they really don't move. Yes. So we had it in the corner by the rocks. And obviously we didn't go near it, but we were all being filmed as we were observing the snake. So I think they're a little bit more common than we think. And that's not to put fear in anyone that goes out there. It's like you feel safe.

I mean, as long as you don't touch the snake, I think. So it was just interesting. I thought the behind the scenes was fascinating to see for the little peek behind the curtain. I like that they shared that. They shared the island safety guide, which is now, you know, opening up this new idea of, you know, we really are out there on the island with nothing. I mean, we have a little reference guide where it's like you can choose to reference it or not. But I loved the behind the scenes from last episode.

It was really lengthy and obviously a tragic way to go out of a show, especially, you know, that's your dream to go on there and your dad's watching. you have a baby on the way. So I did tear up when he had to end up going home. That episode, it was heartbreaking. But I wanted to see the action. I mean, I love that. The jungle, the real life on the island part of Survivor.

And not really even the behind the scenes. It's just like the what you deal with, you know, when you're out there. Jamie. Okay, so how about this? Is there anything else besides the secret that we as viewers don't know about, that is as life-threatening for the survivors? Life-threatening, I think... Or dangerous.

I think it's going to be the... That's probably the most life-threatening. Obviously, maybe a shark in the waters if you're out there swimming pretty deep. I mean, you're... You have your Hawaiian sling and you're underwater, so anything can be underwater. But there's more annoying things, like at night,

if you don't wear socks, you're going to get bitten up. And I remember not wearing socks a few nights. And I would wake up with just like bites all over my feet. And they're so itchy like ants and then also spiders. And, you know, because you're sleeping on the sand, which for the record, I wanted to say that about this episode. I totally get sleeping on the sand in the opening scene. It's so comfortable. There is no way sleeping on bamboo is more comfortable.

that's something that we tried it day one and it was we all reverted back to digging like a shoulder hole and a hip hole in the sand and then nuzzling into to the sand every night not on the beach we did the beach a couple nights but then so anyway so i totally get that sleeping on the beach yeah well can you explain to the listeners why is it recommended that people don't sleep on the beach i think was it recommended not to sleep on the beach i'm asking so in, you know, I played in a totally different biome in the Amazon. You do not want to sleep on the floor in the Amazon. And then in Panama, I guess you could have slept on the beach,

but I kind of feel like that they don't necessarily want you to. But I don't, I guess, is there no fire on the beach? So the first few nights, we were on the beach because we didn't have fire, which that's another thing that needs to be emphasized more when you don't have fire. It is awful because it's cold at night. And really, it was, we needed more moonlight is why we ended up sleeping on the beach the first couple days. But I think the worst thing that can happen is like the tide coming up and or crabs, spiders. If you don't want to do with that. Yes. Yes. The secrets. But it definitely is more comfy. It's just, you know, you have a cool

ocean breeze. We brought palms over and would use them as blankets that first, the first couple nights, because without fire, it's miserable. It's so cold at night. And you wouldn't think because you're on the island. But yeah, I definitely think that I understand the beach sleeping, even though they ended up getting wet. It was like, I didn't, you know. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's talk about the plight of these survivors that had to switch up tribes now in Survivor 44 just to remind people it wasn't a traditional swap by any stretch of the imagination it was that people went on a journey and then didn't go back it was like a life swap situation yes that was oh my gosh it was cool because obviously you want to do a journey on Survivor the experience second list but it's very

you have to be very adaptable to a new crowd. It's like your first day of school at a new school where everybody's been going to school together and you're kind of the new kid on the block. I think it's that's, if you go into it open and really playing their game, you can't come in with your game. So for me,

I went over to Soka and was greeted with open arms, but it's really, the only option that you have is to figure out, okay, who's the majority and just cling to that and or make yourself valuable to each side, knowing the numbers. And at that time, we had five people left. Let's see. It was, was it? Oh, no, it was four. And then five, I was the fifth one because Josh was gone. So, oh, I swapped with Josh. That's right. I was like, Like, wait, who did I swap with? Yeah.

It's very- Claire had been voted out of that tribe. That's right. And then you took Josh's place. And then Josh went, yes. So it was very intimidating. It's extremely intimidating. And also, it's a solo swap.

So you're going in with your game and knowing everything from Ratu, which is valuable. And you have as much information as you know. And for me, I had already been to tribal. So we knew where the lines were and or weren't based on if you played your shot in the dark or not. So I had already had that experience. And going into it, you have to go with open arms and give everybody exactly what they want to hear so that you keep your options open. And then they see you in a number.

And then hopefully, you know, whoever's case is more appealing, you can kind of latch on to. But you definitely, for me, I was able to pick up the vibes almost immediately, especially with, you know, Matt and Franny. it's that was they tried to keep it secret but I remember knowing almost immediately like there's something going on here especially when love is involved you know that there's a bigger force to reckon with with those two so although I they were trying to keep it low key was pretty obvious but you are you really have to you have to kind of blend in and adapt and kind of be willing to to drop your existing game that you were trying to build. And I think that that can be hard,

especially if somebody's like a really big strategy person going into a swap where you're kind of rooted in your idea of how you want things to go versus just living in the moment and stepping into what you're given. I think that's the really important part that and why we see different players adapting differently because of whether they're stubborn or, you know, they're not picking up on the vibe. It's fun to see how it's fun when you have a swap like they have on 49 because you have different characters interpreting the swap differently.

And that was really fun to watch last night. But I do remember, though, feeling you also feel very alone. I remember feeling very, very alone. And then having to adapt to their house, like their little, you know, this is their kitchen. I'm like, yeah, but I want the kitchen over here. And then, you know, they had their, um, a. really great setup for sleeping. I didn't like sleeping on the bamboo, but everybody slept on the bamboo. So I had to make that sacrifice when I was on Soca, which is the most uncommon. I don't think

I slept a wink on Soca. But anyway, just little adaptations like that. I needed the sleep mask. Yeah. If I had the sleep mask, I would have slept on Soca. So it seems like that maybe the person that you could have related to the most from Survivor 49 might be Sophie B, who was the person who came over and was able to really ingratiate herself very well to the existing members of the old Ouli tribe that she was with. Yes, I love Sophie. She is doing exactly what she needs to do by immediately giving them what they mean. Whatever you need to hear, here I am. And I'm so grateful to be through, I've been through, I've been through it all at this point and I survived and I'm here for you, however you need me. She, she quickly adapted in relationships because sometimes

it can be hard because the first few nights, there's something special about when you're there with people, the first few nights. A really, I feel like for me, a really deep bond occurred. Even with, on my season, Maddie, I feel so close and still feel so close with her, even though we only had a few nights together. And so having her recognize the importance of switching, you know, adapting really quickly and picking out, okay, I know that this is the majority in this tribe, and I need to just be on that side. It's, Sophie is playing such a great game.

Even though she's been through it all, she's played more survivor than anybody there already. And she's doing a great job. I love Sophie. I love watching her. just kind of take the punches and roll with it she's turning lemons into lemonade i mean she's just really made even though and and also i want to emphasize that also i'm always watching her and the disaster tribe of the season because they've been through it all without having fire they're not sleeping they're not eating not having fire is such a big deal that's not talked about enough

when you don't eat and you don't sleep and you know i know they mentioned it in a couple of their tribals, how they couldn't even think. They couldn't think clearly. You really can't. They're having a bite of coconut a day and not sleeping. It's freezing cold at night. So anyhow, I just really feel for them because the first few nights that we had without fire, it really was hard. It's hard. And so, and then you're playing a game and you're having, were you really just like, I'm freezing. I can't sleep. I can't think. So anyhow, I love seeing her just kind of, um, get through it. And now she's on the other side of it with this swap. And it's going to be fun to watch because of her experience already and knowing how her

loyalty needs to stay strong. The last vote that she did last episode, I thought was amazing. Um, because I mean, she had to do that when, because Alex had the idol. So it was, um, she's making really great moves, great decisions. Even though it's kind of like, oh, I wanted them to be besties until the end, she did what she needed to do. And it might, you know, she's, she's adapting quickly. It might feel like it's a little scrappy, but it's all working for her. And I love watching that kind of gameplay. You know, in some ways, I feel like that for Sophie, it was easier to do this swap because she went from the disaster tribe to now, okay, I have a new option. But she doesn't have multiple options. She really has like one option of, hey, there's this new.

group, I've got to get in good with them. I feel like for somebody like yourself, it probably was a little bit more challenging because you really had two choices of do I really try to make myself a part of this new group that I'm in? Or am I really just trying to abide my time to get back to my original people? And that must be the, that's kind of the thing that Jason and Matt had to wrestle with in terms of like okay i'm not in a great spot here but do i try to like try to like pitch myself as part of this or am i really just like do i not want to have a false pretense and i'm trying to get back to my old people right and it's for me i remember it being a little bit further into the game seemingly where i always had rat too on my mind so even with the

stories that i told soka they were always very um they were very filtered stories and that I would share. So I wasn't sharing every single detail that happened on Ratu. That kind of came to bite me in the butt once we went once we hit merge because there was information that I left out, especially about the idol and Brandon Fine, you know, a lot of those type of details. But it is, it was really tough because you know, you don't know how long it's going to last.

Are we, how long do I have to be here with these people? can I make it work? So for me, it was, and then I had the choice, you know, it's like I'm teaming up with Heidi and Heidi and Danny. And how do I trust them just in one or two days? What if Heidi and Danny and or Franny and Matt, but then I have Heidi and Franny approaching me. And so who do I believe?

It was, it's very hard to trust in a situation like that where you don't have any, you you have hours with each other and you're already having to make decision. So it was almost like I needed to adapt and then really hope that we won the challenges and that we somehow made it to merge. And then I'm thinking about Ratu and I'm like, okay, I know that they're probably bonding with Carson. What is that going to look like when I go back? Are they going to forget about me?

Like I hope that they know that I'm still Team Ratu. And I had built my bonds enough with Ratu though that I knew I could. go back and gather as much information from Soka as possible. But by kind of playing neutral with them. So you really have this balancing act. It is such a difficult pickle to be in when you have a swap. You have to just live in the moment and take it hour by hour. There's no other way. because things change so fast, especially in the new era, where you don't have, you know, multiple days between tribals to talk about things or between challenges. It's like you are having to be on your toes at all times.

And then you're questioning everything. So can you remind me in your particular situation? So you got swapped to the four. You had you had the idol, which was a fake idol, but you believed to be a real idol. Did you tell the people on your swap tribe, hey, just so you know, I have an idol? I did not share my idol. That was my biggest fear was having my fake idol be found out. So I'm there thinking I have this real idol.

Yeah. And I remember keeping it a secret. In fact, I remember, and I don't know how the, I need to go back and watch, but I think the edit shows Danny going through my bag. And I remember doing my confessionals and being so worried that somebody was going to go through my bag because I have my idol in there. And from that day forward, I kept my idol in my sock because I didn't want anybody on Soka to know that I had that idol. So I did not use that as, I was trying to keep it as, you know, the old school survivor. We don't tell everybody about

our idol type vibe as possible besides the person that I found it with, which is Matthew. But my idea was to keep it a secret and to know that no matter what I have that as protection. And then I also had the idol that was given to me during the journey. So I had my fake idol and then I had the journey idol, which was good for one travel council. It was good. Yes. So it was like you play it.

So I knew that I would be safe because worst case scenario, I was just going to throw the idol up. And they kind of were suspicious and they asked me. And then of course, Danny's going through my bag, which I don't blame them. But I remember wanting to keep that a secret. And so it was two idols that I was hiding. So every day it's like when you're shoving idols in your socks and shoes, it was a nightmare. But I wanted to kind of keep that close to my chest so that I could go back to Ratu and say,

hey, this is information that I didn't share with them and prove to them that I wasn't going to betray them. So you're really having to mold to every situation. And like I said, live in that exact moment because anything. oh my gosh it happens so fast when you're out there you and and not knowing who to trust and it also happened right when you get comfy so i was you know i had my house plant over at ratu i had you know our routine we were making our coconut popcorn we had it going on we had our fire we would build it up before challenges i mean we were really a little family that we had going on and then to be uprooted like that it was it was

heartbreaking. And so, but I know that I always like, I truly tried to make the best of everything. And I love meeting people. So it was fun to, and I also loved like the survivor. I mean, I loved seeing another island and like being able to, you know, experience a different part of it. So anyway, um, the, the word of the day is adaptable. You know, Sophie killed it and going and not being so rooted. Everybody thinks that they're running, they're running their their own game. Part of that is knowing that you might not be in the lead, like you're not leading, you're not narrating. You're kind of, you know, you might be in, you might, you just need to be aware of when you enter a new tribe, you are at the bottom. So, which is nice because in my

situation, because it was just me giving the idol, you know, it would have been an easy vote for them to say, okay, let's get Jamie out. And truly, that's probably. what would have happened. And then I would play my idol. So when I was, when I went in, I was the only way that I would have told them that I had an idol is we were going to tribal council because then it was positioning to like, hey, put the votes on me and then who do we want to get out? You know. If you're watching RJP on YouTube, you've seen my new studio set up. You'll never believe that it's all way fair. The paneling behind me, the chair I'm in, the plants, all picked by me and shipped right to my door. The best part is it's free delivery,

even on the big stuff. And in our house, I'm not just serving looks. I'm serving a bunch of people my wife has invited over the house this fall, and they've got everything that we need at Wayfair to get these parties going so my wife can enjoy having people over. That's my job, okay? And you know how crazy the stores get this time of year? Nicole can order wreaths, lights, and even inflatables from the yard right from her phone knowing us to drive to the store and getting a fight over a parking spot getting ready for every fall festivity couldn't be easier wayfares where we grab it all whether it's a guest room refresh or some holiday flavor for the living room no running around i can do it all right here get organized refreshed and ready for the holidays for way less head to wayfair

dot com right now to shop for all things home that's w a y f a i r dot com wayfair every style every home so i want to go back to jason and he had a different idea than that and he told everybody hey i'm still loyal to my people and you know what i'm just thinking i'm going to play my shot in the dark tonight that's what i'm going to do shot in the dark he said i want to be like a crab in a hole and if anybody tries to stick their hands in i'm going to chomp at them and jamie this was something that i would say that you were really the person to make this happen first of, okay. Yes. And yes.

Set the stage. And to make it. Yeah. So for my shot in the dark move, I had to, I think I was the first person to make it a public conversation. That was something that I kind of used as a tool to, to threaten that, hey, this, I'm going to play it. So you're gambling now because it's one and six.

I'm telling you guys, I'm playing it. So, and that's, our first tribal is a disaster because we go into it. And from what I knew, I was the target. The girls tell me that. The guys tell me that. So, okay, perfect. Then none of you guys need my vote. No one needs my vote.

I'm playing my shot in the dark. We'll see what happens. And so having it be a public conversation and then, you know, our tribal, again, saying, I'm playing it. which really the start in the dark up until then was like a secret thing where you kept it private. But if you have this, this like absolute move that you know that's happening, then you're all a sudden calculating, well, what if, what if it does hit? Yeah.

Okay. So then are we splitting it? What if it ricochets? What's happening? Obviously, you know, it didn't go in the way that I would have wanted to because I was really close with Maddie. But that did instill enough fear to have the people that were able to have. vote not look in my direction anymore. So for me, it was a win. And then it was a double win when I

ended up being safe. But it was really leveraging it in a way where then, you know, when you use your shot in the dark, you can't vote. So it keeps both options open. And at the time, it was Brandon and Lauren. And then I had Kane, Matthew, and Maddie. So either way, it was like, okay, now I also don't have to show my cards. So it becomes something that it's public. So you kind of are inviting everybody to just like, okay, gamble. Like, what are you going to do? You know, and it was, it's fun to talk about that because in just logic strategy talk,

you kind of forget, oh my gosh, that could happen, you know, which is fun and why. And in this season specifically, I wanted to know why. I really wanted Nicole to play hers. She mentioned, she mentioned it episode one. And I was like, yes, play it. That's the perfect example of when you would play it in that, especially when you have a six-person tribe. Yeah.

If you, you may as well. And it wasn't like they were counting on her vote. Yes. And then the other benefit is you don't have to show your cards. You then are automatically in the middle and you get to choose which way you want to go. And so there's a lot of ways to do it. But I think that that was for my season, one of the, our first. tribal was we were almost the disaster tribe and we laughed for days after that because we had to

pull together and figure out how to win and how to get along and how to get our heads in the game because it's it rattles you when you go to that first tribal council and then benefit though is you're playing the game so you are then thinking about the game more than these other two tribes who have never been to tribal council so you when you don't when it's everything's still unexpected like oh what's it like oh we go and we could just see the set and you know jeff's there you don't have the experience of playing so the more tribal the better especially like for sophie and Alex now it's like they have it under their belt and and i think you know especially with sophie's move on knowing that she needed to vote with Alex to show her loyalty and true

and the way that she sold it i was like oh yeah she's like like she's like she's like she's is like her nail person and yeah anywho um long story longer it the shot on the dark can uh be used creatively and that was my point in making it a a huge production i think it was even more of a big deal than they showed on my my episode so on that first episode do you feel like that jason telling people he was going to play his shot in the dark even though he didn't and i'd like to talk about that do you feel like that that is the difference between what saved him versus Matt? Well, I think when people hear that you're going to play your shot in the dark,

the way that I saw people interpreting it last night was, Jason, you got to pick. If you're not going to show who side you're on, that's kind of like a really easy way. Like, this is how you prove your loyalty to me. So it's really that strong expectation, like, You need to vote this way and then you'll prove it, which is also you're balancing that out. So would it have been, I mean, he was right.

They didn't really need his vote and he could have just stood back, but he needed to adapt and live in the moment, which is what he ultimately did by not playing it and not living in fear because that's the other thing. So he got major points for instead leveraging the most valuable tool, which is his vote and proving like, hey, I'm here now, here's how I'm adapting. So whoever got in his ear about that and finally, and not using the shot in the dark, it ended up in his favor, obviously. Yeah. And so you feel like that he was able to prove his loyalty a little bit. And the thing that I also like about him not playing it is now he's kind of a sitting duck if they go to tribal

council again, if he has played it. Luckily, you didn't have to worry about that going to another pre-merged tribal council but for for jason if they go back now he is just an easy target if they have another tribal council yes and that's and so positioning himself by showing his loyalty with his vote hopefully he can start to talk his way up from the bottom and add value talk about you know his his other relationships that he has but really he kind of has to let go of that yeah and and be where he is now because he's in, um, uh, uh, Hina. Yep. The new Hina.

So he's Hina 2.0 now and Hina 2. Which I wish they would have changed the names of the tribes. What do you want to change it to? I don't know. I just wish that it was like, if we go to two tribes, have the first original three tribes. And then they're two, they're two totally different new tribes. So they should have two totally different new names. Interesting.

Because it's not like when I went to Soka. I became Soka. these everybody grabbed it out and we needed we they needed to do a whole like hey brand new we've got seven and seven which is a big tribe and I loved seeing a big tribe miss having a big tribe it's so much fun and I know that there's a lot of conversation about that like oh we want the two tribe I true because I'm a day one survivor I miss that where it's like you have these many relationships you know many alliances in you know with 10 people or eight people It's just incredible to watch.

And so I was so excited. However, the names can be confusing because then it's like, okay, they're not Hina. They're Hina 2.0. Or, and or, like, hey, guys, let's, and that's something like I wish that they would have asked production when we were like, can we come up with a new name because we're new people and, you know, made it a fun thing. Yeah. And then kind of dwind.

This is an original tank. No, I don't think anybody's ever pitched this before of when they do a swap, let's have new names for the tribes. Yes, it's a new name. blood, new people. I mean, the cards weren't drawn exactly down the line. So it's like, you know, there's heavy four. It's four and two or, you know, there's an obvious.

So anyhow, I don't like, I really wish they would do that. And then still change the name at Merge, because that's another fun thing. It's like, then you have a totally new tribe if you all made it through. But I do like that they did this. So the swap is very different than, again, when I just went to Soka. go to Soka and I have to adapt. It's like, they're here and they can kind of build Hina 2.0 into its own new tribe. Who's, you know, who's going to take the lead? What does that look like? Because it really is. You have a different dynamic. You're all of a sudden positioned totally

different within your tribe. And, and yeah, it's just, and you're on a different beach. If you swapped beaches, which that would be a nightmare to go to the disaster tribe beach because it's miserable especially um i know they showed a scene where savanna was it savanna and rizzo they were loving the hammocks uh yeah i think they were like we're in hina's hammock look at us and and only and it's only been a week which for the record also that's another thing that is such a big deal having the hammock we we were still on that early new era where we didn't have hammocks so we were literally on the sand every single day i would love to have had a hamleth hammock. Jamie, you know, now that we're talking about it where, you know, you saw Savannah and

Rizzo really like we're relishly look, we're on Hina's hammock. You saw when Sophie voted, she was mocking the Hina cheer. Jawan said it was so cringe. It seems like that there is some bad blood between the Uli tribe and the Hina tribe coming into this. Do you think that the chant of the the Hina chant coming in is really the biggest reason why there's some animal. animosity? Or do you think it's just that the Uli tribe felt like that they couldn't beat Hina? And that's why they have animosity towards them? You know, I think the Hina chant. I totally get that because I'm a cheerleader like that on, you know, when I was playing,

we had Soka, Soka, Soka, Soka. We had one two, one two Ratu. I mean, those are literally our chance. So I get that. And it's because they haven't played Survivor. Like, they haven't played the game. They are in this fun little. It's been a week on the beach.

It's, they haven't had that cutthroat feeling where there's lines drawn in the sand. They haven't gone to tribal council. And so I think it's, it's easy to be that happy go lucky, you know, because once you go to tribal and there's lines drawn, it's, it's hard to build up that cohesive feeling. So, I mean, is it intimidating? I mean, it's fun. It's fun to watch and to get it to get it. them excited. There's definitely a rivalry. I feel like that always happens between the two tribes and that's how the underdogs are able to wiggle in between the two that are fighting

each other. So the disaster tribe ends up kind of making their way to the top. But it's the heena, heena, I mean, it's a fun, it's a fun thought. I think that Uli, they have deep bonds without even really having to do that and to flaunt it. You know, if you are, and you never know what's going on. So you can hide behind a chant and, you know, just have that game face on. It's like if there are, if there are a lot of athletes on the team, that might be the thing where then there's behind the scenes feuding. It could be all the charade for, you know, because you're really, you're putting on a show during tribal council. You're putting on a show when you're at challenges and you're trying to gather information.

But then you're also trying to trick people. you don't know who's close and and you don't really know what's going on on the other beaches. So, I mean, I think the Hina, Heena, Heanahana is fun, but it's, there's definitely, it then, it then makes you wonder like, okay, where are the cracks? But there's always cracks. It's just a facade. It's just a little, a little fun, a fun presentation of their tribe. Because you never know.

I mean, these tribes, sometimes, and we see this, the tribes that are really good, that in the challenges physically, sometimes is that these tribes are a disaster behind the scenes. We has had that win Survivor 41, that the tribe with Erica and Deshawn and Danny, like they were a hot mess, but they were winning all the challenges. Yes, it is. So it's very deceiving. And you really don't know. There's never a cut and dry answer.

And I think that the mistake can be made if you think you know on Survivor, if you think you know. because isn't there a saying where it's like you are either 100% right or you're wrong. Like there's no in between. And so I never heard that before. I mean, it's really. You're either 100% right or you're wrong. I mean, right? Like you're giving your take and you're in your and you can be so confident.

But it's like, and so you're either really confident for all the right reasons and you're 100% right or you're 100% confident and you're totally wrong. And it's like one person is always going to be the totally wrong person. no matter what. And everybody's getting asked the same question. So I'd love to talk to you about Matt and where he went wrong in this episode. And so we got to see where Savannah used her interviewing skills. And she talked to Matt about, he talked about his career at the airport. And then she asked him the question about, what did you do before the airport?

And Matt appeared to be caught a little flat foot. He wasn't ready. Now, Jamie, we all know that you are a yogi and talked about it on the show, but our research team at RHAP went back to your survivor bio. And you wrote, the accomplishment that you are the most proud of was having the courage to quit a 10-year career to follow your dreams. what was your career before being a yogi? I worked in corporate America in finance. Oh, no. For real?

Bing, yes. Okay. So it is, yeah, and that is what I was the most proud of because, you know, you kind of just, if you, I couldn't see myself doing that for 50 years, like, it's giving boomer staying in a career for 50, 50 plus years and then retiring, it just wasn't who I, is that who I am? No, that's not, I am not the desk girlie. Well, how did you get started doing that? Because it doesn't seem like something knowing you a little bit. That doesn't seem like the career that you would be in. It was just the safe choice for me. And once you get comfy and you start, you know, making money, it's like, okay, I'm doing it. Like, this is it. And so you get used to

that lifestyle and it's it was very easy to play that you you're playing the corporate game which is also like if you know how to play the corporate game you can come play survivor and do very well you have to you know know your role know the vision the goals and um and and so i think that that is i laughed when savanna had that read on um map because you never really know and with the career talk where everyone's like oh i want to hide um my career because it's this and it's like yeah but were you ever really really good at that because and and and i i i don't know i just it gets to a point where it starts to become silly wanting to hide your career because it's like is that who you are or like were you good at it and

how does that really just where i think it's like obviously the common conversation every season we get to hear who's hiding their career or not but um i think savannah is very good at sensationalizing just like journalist would oh this was clickbaited Yes. She was great at selling that to her tribe. So she took it, she took the headline, sensationalized it. And he's gone. So it was fantastic. If it bleeds, it leads. Sociopath out. Film at 11. Exactly. Tune in at six. She did a fantastic job. And it was so believable. And so for that, that is definitely, maybe that is a threatening career to have because she can take a headline and twist it into whatever she was. You're going to lie about that. And then it's believable. So I think she's using her skillset.

I think that she's saying she's in marketing. I think that she said in the preseason that she was not going to tell people about her career. But Jamie, were you prepared to tell people something else when you came into the game having that background? Or were you not even thinking that that would be a big deal? Yeah. I mean, I don't think that I. Nobody ever asked.

Nobody asked the probing question. And I kind of was. I kind of led with like, here's what I'm doing now. And we talked about, because I do a lot of market, I do marketing now. And I also do yoga. You know, I do nonprofit yoga stuff. And so it was kind of like it never really came up. It's like once you're asked.

So I didn't make it a big deal. I didn't want it to be like, I'm hiding my history and my experience. Because also, I think really in Survivor, there's a pattern of not necessarily what you do for work, but how many people have you interacted with in your life? Because to me, it's always a people game. So if you can interact and adapt with the most people, you know it's easy. That practice and repetition, you know, the 10,000 hours, it's easy to learn about people if you're facing them every single day. So it doesn't matter if you are serving at a coffee shop, you're interacting with people.

And dealing with the public is really hard. So if you have that experience, you know, like Jam Jam in a salon, he's greeting people all day every day. And so if you're meeting a thousand people a week, you have that practice of interacting, conversing, and swaying people. And so anyway, that's kind of, I wasn't ever worried about it. Can I expand on that? Because I think that that's one of the most insightful things I've heard about Survivor in a while. of there is like a quantifiable formula of like what is like the sheer volume of people that you're interacting with, you know, per day per week.

And those reps that you talk about like with a Jam Jam or Kenzie or somebody who's working like in the service industry. And we talk about that a lot. That that's just something that's really quantifiable that we could talk about of like how, what is your level of experience dealing with not just. like one particular relationship, but whatever type of person, survivor is going to throw at you. Exactly.

I think that's, it's a missed, obvious skill set that a lot of people have. And you can tell when you're talking to the person like a Jam Jam or like a Kenzie, you know, people might, and the people that don't understand that, you know, because there's people that don't understand, oh, why did this person win or this person not win? and it's it is people always remember the way that you make them feel not what you said or did it truly does resonate and translate directly to survivor in the microcosm that it is it's it's so fascinating so when you have winners like that it's like i know exactly why jam jam one i know

exactly why kensy won and they won for good reason because they made people feel a certain way because they have a lot of practice in doing that when they're selling whatever their trade is it doesn't matter, again, if it's a coffee shop salon or, you know, and however long you spend time, I think that those type of people are more threatening in such a sneaky way than anyone, you know, that comes in and they're, you know, a doctor wanting to hide it. Although if you're a lawyer, that's the one profession where I'm like, okay, if you're a practicing lawyer, I mean, even the Big Brother winner, that was a fantastic final, you know, that if you are a lawyer, that's the one that I can see any, my tribe, Kane is one of the smartest people I know. He's a

lawyer, he could have talked his way in and out of anything. And so those are the, those are kind of hidden. So I understand that profession. Yeah. So lawyer, you feel like that they have an ability to persuade. That's, because I feel like that it's typically people who are like, oh, they're smart, but you think that also because they have like the gift of making a persuasive argument. Yes, the gift, the gift of persuasion, but then also presentation and the assertiveness and the authority that you have to have in a final tribal and the certainty that you have to have in the relationships and knowing how to build that. I mean, they're building a case. Literally, we all say, oh, we're putting on our resume. We're building our case. But the lawyers have professional experience and hours of

studying cases and how they're built. So I think that's the pattern that we see in these reality shows of the lawyers winning. And that's the career that I can see somebody hiding, you know, and or kind of, but then again, but then it's like you could have a lawyer that's, it's like, they're an insurance lawyer that's, you know, just hitting enter on everything. And they don't really have that, you know, experience presenting to a jury. And so anyway, I always giggle when it's, I'm hiding my career or I'm not. And, you know, it's fun to see how people relate Survivor and having that conversation. Obviously, it's fun to talk about when I was there.

I didn't really think that, I mean, I knew, I knew, and that's how I built myself, I knew my experience in corporates. America and dealing with the corporate politics was going to help me with the social politics on Survivor. That's something that, you know, me dealing with the hundreds of people that I had to deal with and, you know, pitch ideas to and make it work in a cutthroat environment, it translates directly, but you have to then be adaptable, though. So I knew if I'm walking into this boardroom, I'm acting like this, because I need to make sure that he thinks that it's his idea.

And so you're kind of just having to play. And so those are the skills that I brought to Survivor. And now we're watching Savannah bring the skills from her. I'm sure it was a 10-year career in journalism of being able to persuade people. And so it makes sense that, you know, she has it. She has that, she's very persuasive. And she has that leadership quality where you're just drawn. to her and then she's, um, uh, she connected with Sophie right away. So she's, she's doing a really

a great job at using that skill set from her, from her profession. Although I, so I don't think though that if she did say she was a journalist, that they would necessarily draw that as it. Because again, you could be a journalist and not be that persuasive. So it's, it's interesting to watch. I think almost anything, people could find a reason to be able to attack you for, oh, they're this, so they have that. And so if, if people are trying to build a case against you, I think they would, but I just thought that the way that you were able to articulate why the career that you were in wasn't a fit, you did such a good job with that as opposed to the way that Matt really made it seem like, oh, oh, you found my secret weakness.

And I talked to him this morning and I asked him about that moment. He said that he felt like that the, you know, the case had already been made against him prior to that. That was shortly before tribal counsel that that came up. and he thought that the votes were already coming his way. But he really did handle it like, oh, I wasn't sure if I was going to tell you guys and you have something I didn't really want to, where you really owned it. And you talked about how, yeah, I had this other career that I pursued and it was something

that was safe. And I realized it wasn't for me and I got out of it and I made this change. And I think that there's just a way to really position it as something that you were doing, but you didn't like. something about it, that that wasn't the type of person that you are. Yes, definitely. And it's easy to just redirect the conversation. If they come at you with that and not making it the highlight of the conversation, it's like,

just drop it and move on and change the subject rather than like, whoops, I got caught. But I think when you're out there and you're kind of excited and that's probably what you're telling, you know, in your interviews, you're saying, listen, I'm not going to say my, history and I don't want them to know because we know how it's been perceived on the show in the past. I think that that's, I think it's just so much easier to just redirect. I think it should have just been like, oh yeah, that was me, you know, and then move on so that because you're trying to kind of have no, you need to just not have all eyes on you. So whatever you can do, it's like, okay, well, oh, what do you do, Savannah? What did you used to do? So, and ask questions back rather

And just like saying, oh, I'm caught. But I think it was just, that's just his genuine. The other thing, it's like, that's why he's genuine. So the read should have been, he's not a sociopath, he's genuine because he was so excited. And the way that he worded it also in saying that I wasn't going to tell you guys, you know, that's also like very sincere. And so I don't think that that's, but again, like when we want to sensationalize things, we know the words to use. and she did a great job, which is fun to watch. The Hulu original series Murdoch Death and the Family

dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before, starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark. The Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family is now streaming only on Disney Plus. We heard from Sophie S, really, for the first time in a little bit,

or really for the first time this season last night. Sophie S. talked about the same thing in a few different matters. She talked about the food situation on the island. She got swapped to the new Kela tribe, which does not have a lot of things for people to eat and machetes and pots and things like that and she said the only thing that they have to eat there are worms. Now Jamie

correct me if I'm wrong you two ate worms on Survivor correct? Yes, correct. I think I was one of the first people to eat worms that was that was... You started it. They're reheating your worms We got the worms. The worms are back and they are serving okay they are doing a great job even going back a couple episodes when um jeremiah was eating them yes jeremiah ate and i the worms hold a special place in my heart because that now sometimes dogs can have worms a special place in their heart and that's

bad yes they can but this is the good kind of okay this is the edible kind of worm according to the safety guide it's 70% protein is that in Is that in the binder that you can eat them? Okay. Yes. So they are deemed edible in the island safety guide, a 70% protein. And for me, once you hit day four, I think that was the first day that I was like, all right, we're getting the worms.

And unfortunately for me, that was part of me being lured over to find the fake idol when I was hunting for worms. Anywho, I totally get the worms. And you've got to do, that's kind of another, you know how people say bucket list. It was for me. It was a survivor bucket list. And I'm proud that I did it. I'm happy that I did it.

I'm happy to inspire future seasons to do it. And there's the fly. I also had a fly on my forehead during my season. But the worms, you have to do the worms. And it's definitely an experience. And you do feel energized, like satiated instantly after having like two or three. worms it they work the worms work and uh highly highly recommend we we there's two methods and i don't know if you if you see my series i have a series out on this right now everything that i ate when i was on

survivor um and i go over the methods so it's either the swallow method or the chew method i prefer the swallow method of eating worms yeah um you just have to do it it's fun you just do it okay and did you do it just once or you would do it often you know i by that time i by that time I had figured out how to cook really great papaya. And so we found a papaya tree and we had fire. So this is after we get fire, you have more options. So we were making coconut popcorn and papaya. And so the worms kind of took.

Yeah. They play a role, I think, in the first week of Survivor. And then after that, you get, you get smarter. Yes, you get smarter. It's like, freshman year of college. It's like, yeah, we don't do that anymore. Okay, but okay, so we do have a clip here, okay, from Instagram. Are you going to really eat the worm on Instagram?

The new series, everything I ate on Survivor. Let's listen to Jamie. Let's take our first bite. One, two, three. Welcome back to episode three of my news. In real life, you didn't actually do it. I didn't do it. So that was my clickbait for the video.

Good job. Okay. And then you have a crab here. Did you prepare this in real life? Yes. So that's the, so I prepared it in real life. So that's a real, that's actually a soft shell crab. And part of this series, so this one was about island delicacies.

And island delicacies, a worm. Week one, a worm is an island delicacy and also crab. So crab, you have a couple options. You have ghost crabs or you have hermit crabs. And I know this because I studied the flora and fauna and the animals that were on. And it's also in the island safety guide. Okay. Yes.

It's there too. in the guide as the animals that you can eat. The other option is a hermit crab. So one of our first crabs that we ate like butter. When you get that hermit crab in the pot, you steam it with a little bit of salt water. And then you have your little sliver, like a fingernail size of a serving size of crab. And you put it on your tongue and it just melts away. It's so delicious.

Very small, but it is the most satisfying bite that you will have seven days into Survivor. So it is considered an island delicacy also because you have to be very quick on your feet to catch those things. You are having to use your buff and either tackle them on the beach or tackle them in the jungle. You have to really, really be quick to catch those crabs. And so that's why it's considered an island delicacy and a crab divided by five people is not a lot of meat. But there's something that's so, you know, you kind of, it's a bonding experience, eating the worms, bonding, bonding, making crab together, bonding. It's just all part of the game. And so if you can kind of create value in yourself in some way, you know, for me,

it's like I loved prepping the food. And yeah, so we have the everything I ate on Survivor. It was, it's definitely bringing back all the memories. So when I see, you know, the worm talk and then also during this episode, I see them talking about the fruit basket, which was really a fun take, an interesting take, a brave take. Okay. To counter the fruit basket, because our tribe won the fruit basket, we got the smaller one.

We won the small, because there was two. So during one of those first, it was when I was still on Ratu, we won the challenge and got the fruit basket. And it's the most delectable thing. When you've been eating worms, the banana, it tastes like candy, like ice cream. And the grapes, oh my gosh. But again, like the fruit's going to spoil really quickly. but you have a nice little boost in carbs and sugar. Just it's, it's delightful.

And I got to feature that one on my series too, like all of the reward meals. But the thing that's not talked about often enough, and maybe this is where she was coming from. It's a reward, but is it a reward if you're having diarrhea in the ocean afterward? I don't know. Okay. Well, you didn't even get into that. Okay. So Jeff rolls out the reward.

Here it is. and Rizgod really wanted a banana. They wanted a banana so badly. And Rizgad is like, please let it be a banana. And Jeff's like, ask and you shall receive Rizgad, it's a banana. And they're like, how about that, everybody? And then he goes to so, it's so funny. He goes to Sophie.

He's like, Sophie, S, like, talk about what does it mean to get these kinds of rewards? She's like, this is diet food. I don't want this. So that was so funny that of all the people that he went to, that was the reaction that she gave. But Jamie, I feel like for you, I was thinking, I bet Jamie would love this reward more than donuts, more than cookies. I bet you were thrilled to have fruit. Oh, I loved having fruit. It was, oh my gosh, that was a delight.

It was sugar. It was so delicious. it's the most amplified version of these fruits that you can ever experience in your life when you're not eating and you don't have those flavors on your tongue and you're totally detoxed from sugar, caffeine, everything. And you have your first bite of a banana. You're set on fire. You can take over the world. We were sweeping our area. We were doing chores. We were, we were, it gave us energy to hunt for, you know, more crabs. It was so amazing to have, And I actually prefer that to the heavy, greasy food or, like, for me, I felt very unfortunate

to be part of the merge where I enjoyed the merge feast. Merge feast, again, is it really a merge feast where it's a reward because you're going to be sick afterwards? And that sickness might last for 12, 24, 48 hours, depending on who you are. And if you can play the game and be sick at the same time, good for you. but it's not something that I think a lot of people think about when you're kind of, you're not eating anything. In these new era, that needs to be talked about.

And I think in these 90-minute episodes, it's emphasized a lot more. Should that be in the binder? It should be in the binder to tread lightly. But, I mean, maybe it's part of, maybe it's part of a production strategy to have everybody, you know, you're really under fire then if you're having to run to the ocean, to run to the ocean off.

camera because of the fruit that you ate. But we definitely did enjoy the fruit and we saved some for either was, you know, we set some aside for Matthew at one point. And we divvied it up. So it's like if we had grapes, it's like everybody gets two grapes. So the rations. The rations are a serious thing too. Okay. So could you just talk about and we don't have to get graphic about it? But what is the issue with people getting sick about the fruit? Is it that they are over. eating the fruit when they get it. It's like, hey, it's going to go bad, so let's just eat it all in one day. If you ate it slower, do you think that people would get sick?

I think it's a combination. I think you do have to eat it slower, but then you're so excited to eat, so you kind of stuff yourself. But you do ration. Like, we rationed it over a couple days. We wanted to make sure that it was before any merge. We wanted to get to eat it all before we merged because we didn't want to share. But it was, if you, the slower you, the, the, the, you.

you definitely want to do it slower. And I think a lot of things are happening because your body is switching from fueling it's up from carbs to fat. So it's running in, you're in ketosis when you're out there. By day three or four, you're literally in ketosis. And then if you eat in that stage, you're just going to have to go to the bathroom. And if you're, maybe not if you just have a banana. And if you do take it slow.

Bananas can be very binding. Yes. So if you have maybe a combination of grapes and bananas to have a grape. That's what Riz God knew. Riz got new. So as long as you are listening to your body, which is easier to do out there because you are plugged in. When you are on Survivor, you are plugged into a different dimension.

When you're out there, it's like you can, it's like the jungle dreams. I almost forgot about the jungle dreams. Tell me about, I don't know about the jungle dreams. Oh my gosh. Okay. We would talk about this on Route 2. And I just remembered this. The jungle dreams.

you're out there and you're so plugged into nature and you know you're also fasting like you're fasting not eating um everything becomes like highly intuitive like you are very high intuition yes you're plugged in and you almost the dreams are so real yes okay like i remember i had a dream a jungle dream where i was like is this idol fake i think this idol's fake and then i woke up the next morning and i was like no it's a real idol it's a real idol that There's no way this is a fake idol. Like you're literally having this intuition when you're out there, these dreams that you have.

And it was a common thread. Like a couple of us had conversation about the jungle dreams where it's just like they were so real. Anyway, you're just plugged in. It's deeper. It's like you're going to bed with sunset up at sunrise. You're just, it's a really cool experience. You're not looking at screens. It's, uh, I'm such an island, girly.

I love, I loved the island. Well, we saw Nate moved by that he had had a very, vivid dream where he had seen his kids and he was very affected by it. Yes. Oh my gosh. He did. I totally forgot that they, yes, he did talk about that on last night's episode. I totally forgot. I, and I, I, I'm just now correlating that with the jungle dreams. Your dreams are incredibly vivid. Yes. Like to a scary, like scary point. If you do get some shut eye and you get into that dreamlike state, the actual dream state, you are. oh my gosh it's like you kind of are just like playing with reality i mean it's very powerful

it's very cool and so i do i did i understand that emotion that he had especially that that jungle dream it makes sense yeah um that okay i can identify yes i i do recall like having vividly dreaming on survivor i didn't know that's what a jungle dream was that's i i don't know I think we just named it that. Yeah. I think that also part of it was, I think that like we had had to take malaria medication. And I think that that also, they told us that that was also part of it.

Yeah. You're like, is this for the medication or am I just adapting? Yeah. Okay. I would love to talk to you a little bit about Shannon, who is a person who I think of you as a very spiritually tapped in person. that's really what we've come to know Shannon as in this game. She seems to be using that as a strategy to help gain new allies after the swap.

What do you think about Shannon? Yeah, it's really interesting because a couple things. It's Shannon is, I would say, playing a more exaggerated version of what we've ever seen, you know the spiritual take and the meditation um it's a very exaggerated very very um assertive way to insert the spirituality and almost weaponize it which is really a scary line to be doing because it's when you're playing social politics and you're playing this game you can be a very spiritual person i love meditation i love it but you have to know your audience read the room and understand where to insert that idea of that.

So you can't really force it. It needs to be something that if you present it and people get excited about it, then great. Let's go meditate on the beach. That's something that on Ratu, we did, after we lost and we were almost the disaster tribe, it's like, all right, I'm pulling out the toolbox. We got to do something. We need to come together because we're smarter and stronger than this Ratu.

Let's do it. And it wasn't forced, but it was like, hey, let's do this. Like I know, let's try everything that we can. Let's get it out there and let's do it. So we ended up all meditating together as a group. I think it's something where you can't really force it on everyone. And there's like that fine line between spirituality and, you know, religious conversation. So you really want to tread lightly. And I think she's treading in a really strong, powerful way that can kind of be off-putting to a lot of people. If you don't know your audience, you know, you can kind of sprinkle it in. And then

you know, you can wrap someone in if they hear certain words. It's like, okay, I'm going to draw them in. And I think she had that conversation with, what's her name? Christina. Yes, she had the conversation with Christina that works. And they resonated with her. But it doesn't mean it's going to resonate with everyone. And I think that everyone's kind of playing nice.

And, you know, it's showing the guys on the beach. Some of them have their eyes open and some, you know, they're totally like not into it at all. because you can kind of feel that pressure. And it's like, again, you have to know your audience. So for us, it was like an exciting thing and it was like an all hands on deck thing. Well, or is that just what I think? But it really, we really did all come together. And then when I went over to Soka, funny enough, without knowing, they had already had that habit of, you know,

Franny and Danny were leading the meditations. Spiritual, not religious. It wasn't ever, it was more of a, um, uh, uh, Like, I think Danny would teach, like, the Wim Hof breath work. And, and so, and that does. I, I know that that, it works. And it, it will connect you and energize you and align you in a powerful way. And I think that's kind of like the innocent, innocent position that Shannon's coming from, you know, because she's had, she's experienced success and with these things. And she's wanting to share these tools with her team as something that can kind of bring them together. I'm sure that was the competition. And I know that. what we're seeing is like a very exaggerated version. I think she's also an exaggerated version of the idea of meditating on Survivor. Because again, you have to know your audience. Not everybody's going to want to do that.

And all the time and every day. I mean, we did it maybe a handful of times. But it's definitely off-putting for the couple people that have mentioned it already. And then they think it's some kind of, you know, charade. I think that it's more innocent than that. I think she's just truly genuinely because she's still really young. So you also have to think, like, okay, how old are these people? She's still young.

So it's just an innocent presentation of this version of herself that, you know, that she's being come to known as. So I think, though, that she needs to just read the room a little bit more so that it's kind of, it's good intentions. And that's the thing. It's like good intentions, but it's just not going to be received like that by all, especially when people are trying to play this cutthroat version of Survivor. Right.

You know, there's power in it, but it's, you know, you don't want to ever have that pressure to it in already, like, this pressure-filled game. So, of course, a lot of what we take away from Survivor comes from. Whose perspective do we see things from? And so this story was really given to us from Sage's perspective. And I did kind of come down on the same side as Sage, where Sage felt like, you know, all of a sudden Shannon is being like a, little bit more outspoken with this side of her personality than she was on her original tribe. I don't know. It doesn't really, I'm not really feeling this side of her and it feels like this is more of a strategy move. I'm interested to know your perspective on Sage so far and

where you think things are going for her. Do you think that she's going to be the person who's going to be able to turn people around at the new Kela tribe? Or do you think that Shannon is going to get in and Sage is going to go home next? I think that I think that Sage has a great take. I love Sage identifying the difference and kind of feeling the different vibe that she's putting out. I think where it happened, I think Shannon felt some kind of boost in confidence when she had it resonate with more people and the connection that she had with Christina probably empowered her a little bit to feel more, you know, kind of emboldened to, to share this even more strongly. And I think that once you get, there's, there's just, you know, there's like

the few things you don't talk about at the bar, which is like religion and politics and we wish if you're lucky. Yeah. So it's like back of the day, there were rules that you don't talk about in any, you know, social interaction. And she's just not afraid to talk about it. Now you only go to the bar that has the politics that you want to talk about. Exactly. Exactly. And you can tell by, yes.

Okay. So it's definitely a, it's a good read by Sage. I think Sage is going to be the one to turn it around. I think that she will have enough people on her side where then she can sensationalize this by saying, hey, she's going overboard, guys. Like, what is she doing and kind of selling it to the other guys that were already, you know, eyes open, not engaged at all? And it's like when you're looking around it, you got to know if your audience is not engaged, you need to pivot and then just go do it by yourself so that it's not a turnoff to your tribe because that is something that now they're talking about it. And it's just at this point, you're, I mean, you can be called a sociopath by being in finance. So you have to really know that anything can be used against you in this court of survival.

So it's very important to be aware of that. And I think Sage will be on to Shannon. And I think Shannon is kind of going to find herself in a corner maybe with Christina and maybe they can sell themselves as a duo. So it'll be interesting. I don't think that it will resonate very well for very long, especially with the powerhouses that we have that are really kind of coming from the Uli tribe and now the new. 2.0 um so it'll be it'll be interesting to see if she can kind of pivot away from it they definitely are highlighting it in a really strong way and it made me think about myself when I was on there I'm like do I need to like tag that do I need to text everybody because I feel like everyone was

really engaged in doing our meditation but um it's um it's with good intentions so I see where she's coming from I don't feel like I got that as part of your story that you were like I in watching you on survivor I got that this is something that you're very passionate about but it wasn't necessarily like something that was your strategy of I'm going to you know enroll people and and really try to connect with whatever spirituality they have to build my alliance around that yeah when she said you know it was the line that she said she said that you know I prayed I don't even care about being in the numbers I just prayed to God to, you know, put me with the right people.

Like, to me, I think she really wanted to be in the numbers. I don't think, I don't think she, again, far be it from me to call out, you know, I don't know what's in her heart. I don't know if she, I didn't buy that she had prayed, God, I don't care about being in the numbers. I just want to be with the right people. Yeah, I think, I think that's it. And I think that it's almost, it's giving, like, how do I say it?

It's, you know, when you're grasping at all of these hindsight, you know, it's very like new agey. Everything happens for a reason type. So it's, which can also, then it takes away from, it takes away from so much of her own power. So it's almost like, and again, it's with good intention. And it's something that she's very proud about. So it's exciting because she's sharing what she's proud about. And if that's how she wants to interpret that is, you know, and why things happened the way that they did, that's great.

But it was, yes, she, that's, it's almost like that's her language. That's the way that she's interpreting the situation by layering it on with this fluff language to make it make sense in her brain. And if that's how it works, that's fantastic. A lot of people, that works really well for them to have that kind of language to put the facts to and or your true like wants and desires. So it's fantastic. And I think that's why she's on there, you know, to give a totally different perspective

than what anyone has been exposed to. And I think, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how, but I think it'll bring some more in us. Because, again, she's very young. And so it's like dealing with, and I don't know the exact ages of everyone, but she seems very young compared to the tribe of, you know, or inexperienced, you know, especially having these like deeper conversations. And it's almost like she's like spraying and praying, no pun intended. But like it was, it's really like throwing it out there. seeing what sticks. Yeah.

And it'll only go so far. Okay. Let me go back to Sage for a second. Did you know about her jar of blackheads prior to last night? I think it was in pre. Yes. I saw a meme or I saw something. And I was like, I did.

I knew about it before. I didn't know they were going to dress it on the show. I thought that was just kind of like pregame lore. It's interesting. Yeah. And it's kind of, it's kind of gross, but it's kind of. of funny. How big is the jar do you think?

Do you think it's like a very like tiny jar that you would have like spices in? Or do you think it's like a big jar like that you would get like a margarita in in a bar? Great question. There's a lot of variables. How many blackheads does she have? How big are they? How long has she been collecting blackheads? Because if she started with the tiny little like Gerber baby food jar, then that probably

filled up, you know, baby in the first fire. Shaker, I think. Is it? Okay, yeah. We need to ask, did she post a picture of it? Or does anyone know if she's shared more? That's going to be fun to have her share more about, if she hasn't already, we want to see the jar.

Share the jar of blackheads. Show the jar. Come on, Sage. Could you, oh my gosh. And then it's like, is it all her blackheads? Oh. Is she a blackhead picker? Like, does she like to picker?

pick people's blackheads and collect them. Would other people donate to her jar? Or does she want to have a separate jar for everybody's like blackheads? And how much could she sell it on eBay for postseason? I mean, depending on how deep she goes, it might be valuable. And would eBay let you sell that? Is that a biohazard? You're right.

It might be a biohazard. It might be, you know, I don't know. I think that these people that they sell. Like that they, you know, I don't want to be too graphic on the podcast, but there's like people like do like pass gas into a jar and then they sell it. Yes. So she needs to get on to, I don't even know where that is like the dark web or something. Somebody will buy it. I mean, she could be sitting on, I don't know, 100 grand. I don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Okay. Only she can share the value of her blackhead jar. But it was an interesting.

to hear her and in her introduction was that when they first swap that was her introduction to the new people here's a fun fact about me yeah but i think it's did she lie yeah it's it's smart because it's just so non-threatening and it's so it's giving i'm not a threat and so so if she's consciously aware of of that being her intention you know it's a great move it's like okay yeah here's what i do And she's just, you know, it's silly, goofy girl, and that's fun. And it's endearing and it's like, oh my gosh, she's sharing that on national television. So it's fun. What a run!

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Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. let me take a moment and thank our presenting sponsor for this episode of the podcast our friends over at mantha sleep makers of the great mantas sleep mask let me just show you that how customizable it is with velcro you get it to fit exactly the way that you want it so even if you're not on the beach with a hole for your hip and your shoulder you'll be able to sleep like a baby with Manta, of course.

Manta sleeps also great if you need a nap. Jamie, you strike me as a nap person. I do love a nap because I do not do well when I'm tired, which is, I wish I would have had a Manta sleep mask on the island because that is, that was the game for me. It's like, how do I muster up the energy? I'm not myself. If I don't, if I don't get like a 15 minute nap during the day and Manta sleep that they make it so easy because it's a 100% blackout, not blackhead, 100% blackout,

customizable fit. You can fit this in a jar if you want. It's ridiculously comfortable, especially if you're a side sleeper to go to mantasleep.com, use promo code RHAP 49 and get 10% off your Manta Sleep purchase. Let's see. We have some other fun things to talk about here with you. we had gotten some questions from different people who listen to the podcast. Let me share this one from Friend of the podcast.

Zach Werdenberger asked. I love Zach. Did Jamie sink this episode to Dark Side of the Moon yet? Are there any parallels? That is a great question for you to ask Zach. Oh my gosh. I remember my season. I won the award, didn't I? Or wasn't I close?

I was in the final, finalist as one of the best tweet awards that he was giving out. Tweet of the year. This is my favorite thing to do. Well, can I just also give the original tweet, which happy 50th anniversary to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album, my favorite, fun fact. The album and the Survivor episodes are both 43 minutes long. And remember when? Remember when? If you watch the episode on muted, it started the album at the same time, the synchronicist,

are unmatched, a work of art. It truly, I get goosebumps. It's a work of art. And you know, I'm a Wizard of Oz fan. I'm a Wicked fan. You do it to Wizard of Oz, Dark Side of the Moon, and you have this just... Have people done it to Wicked? I don't know about Wicked.

It's too much music. Because it's too much music and it's like two hours and 40 minutes of the movie. But if you do it to the old school survivor, and especially like my season in that episode, syncing it to the album, it's. So fascinating how spot on the bells, the money song when it hits, everything about it matches up perfectly if you haven't done it. And I'm pretty sure you can do it with any Survivor episode on Paramount Plus, no commercials, started at the same time. Now, it has to be pre-45. So we're talking a new era, early new era where the episodes are 43 minutes and then start Dark Side of the Moon.

And you are in for a treat. Because, I mean, it's entertaining. You know what's going on on the show for the most part. You can watch it without the dialogue, especially when they get to the challenges and there's all the dinging. It's just, it's, it's fantastic. So I have yet to do it with the new episodes. The new episodes are, they've got to be what, like 60 something minutes in total. So I will try it and I will report back.

And that might be like a fun little, I'll have to make a little video on it because it is, it's so cool. and I love that album, so it's, I'll have to, I'll report back, but I do remember that. Oh my gosh, I thought about that the other day. It's so funny that he asked that. I mean, he has. It was an honor. An amazing memory, for sure. And are there any parallels between anything Pink Floyd and season 49 of Survivor?

Let's see. Season 49. Well, I feel like the vibe of that. album is very direct very like I always say money money because that's like my favorite the just the cash register sounds that was that's the parallel that all drive it this season it seems very focused on it and especially with the cutthroat players directing it we have the you know um the uh doing anything to make it happen starting with like let's say Rizzo copying the puzzle season one um They had, oh, last night, have doing anything to get that challenge done. That's another thing where it's like, that's why I think it'll be powerful, especially during challenges. I'll have to tee it up and I'll send you a clip where they're lifting people.

It's very different. Even than my season, some of these challenges, which I like, they're getting more difficult, which I love watching because stepping on people and lifting people like that is kind of dangerous and like in the best way and the best like old school way of survivor. so having the that kind of power it's such a powerful album and the feel of it is very like assertive you know we have um who else has been very assertive um well we know news our news journalist um she so so we'll have to we'll have to see um and then you know what else i love i love stephen is he's he's had the the the great reads especially on And I think last night he was talking about Shannon and Savannah. Shannon.

Yes. And Sage. Too many S's. So I think more than anything, it is like the, that would be it. It would be like the, and the money. It's like, guys, this is for a million dollars. And so when you're not out there to make friends, you're literally playing for a million dollars. So it's, it's, it's.

And I don't know. because I know there's a whole, you know, conversation about the type of people that are casted now and, and before where it was more like villains and they don't do villains anymore. But it's like we're all still playing for a million dollars. Like, how far are you going to go for a million dollars? Like, that's what's fun to watch. And so, so anyway, I think it's kind of getting back to that in a way, like especially, you know, the way that, um, I don't know. It just has felt more cutthroat is what I would say. I'm liking the vibe of the season so far. Less, although we haven't seen a lot of survivor because of the not going to tribal that much. Right. Because I'm going to say that hasn't been my experience with it where I don't feel like it's been particularly cutthroat. I feel like everybody has been very kumbaya so far.

So I do feel like that different people going to tribal council might make the game start to feel more real for more of these players. Yes. The cutthroat mafioso vibe that I got, it was seeing Sophie with an eye vote last night with Savannah. Yeah. Split the vote. That to me was like, okay, here we go. Here we go. Let's see what happens. Yes. I mean, maybe it's kind of like new era cutthroat. Maybe for season 50, you could sync that up with the wall.

yes oh my gosh the wall is insane are we talking about the same wall um i'm sorry with dark side of the moon dark side of the moon i'm sorry dark side of the moon the well dark side of the moon the wall the survivor wall is still to this day and that's the other thing that is when you don't eat you don't have energy to climb a wall that was my arch nemesis during my season it was my biggest night nightmare and having to perform at that intense love this season they're making it look like a breeze really they really are all of these challenges it's like and i think i read a headline today that jeff wants to bring out the uh the golden bachelor which i'm like no so he was asked about

this on so i listened to the on fire podcast and jeremy collins is the uh guest host this season and there was a question they do they do like questions and answers and And Jay, the other co-host, asked the question of, Jeff, they do the golden bachelor. Would you ever do like a golden survivor season with all the people that are later days? And Jeff said, no, they would not. Surprise. Okay. Okay.

So he did say that. Okay, good. So that was a misleading headline. Who's writing those headlines? Is it Savannah? She might, is she? But the idea, which it reminds me, I just did a Survivor Season 1 rewatch over the summer,

which was so much fun. It was amazing. It was fun because of, 25 year anniversary. Yes, and I wanted to kind of just like refresh my Jenna. And it was fun to watch because of the characters. I mean, obviously not knowing anything, but Rudy I loved Rudy and he was an older player it's like I love Rudy too he and I remember and I'm a day one survivor fan so I was like a teenager or 12 or 13 years old watching this and rooting for him and rooting for that like core four alliance I mean they had the four there and from the beginning you know these kids they're talking about the vibe I don't even know what the vibe is and it's like they say did that

This is cinema. The only cinema I know about is gone with the wind. How perfect would it be if we had a Rudy from back then, like 70-something years old with Gen Z. Yeah. These kids keep saying six, seven. The only six-seven I know about is 1967. And I was I was headed to Nam. Oh my gosh, Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.

So I love Rudy and I got to, I was, I do not relish many things about my experience on Survivor All Stars, but that one of my most treasured memories of that was that I spent three weeks with Rudy at the outside of the game and I laughed and laughed and laughed. he will always be one of my favorites I loved him so much even in the rewatch I'm like yes Rudy it's so funny

all of his takes and seeing everybody's organic takes that they're not doing for the clip the sound bite the meme they're just themselves you know

we know Sue's you know speech anyway it was a fun rewatch I don't know why I went down that that path of the no but it's interesting to hear your experience with the show? Because I feel like that the average new era survivor contestant is not somebody who's been with the show since day one. Yeah, I agree. And I had a lot of thoughts

about that also because I think it's a different experience, a binge watcher versus a person that are watching it as it came out waiting for the new episode to drop. And literally, like I've said, a million times putting the VHS in it because you have a band concert to go to that night and you need to hit record and make sure that Survivor season one or two records and right do not record over this BHS and then rewatch it when you get home or with the family over the weekend. I mean, I, and so I think that it's very different if you grew up and you watched it over the years. You watched the evolution before your eyes, which you couldn't even quantify the evolution of it. I mean, you went through all of the true eras you were living in the moment of

survivor and knowing all and this was pre internet also so you had your conversation with your friends and family maybe at work or school there there were some hardcore people that were on the internet talking about survivor in 2000 but it was not like how it is now yes not how it is now and that's i i never got into the deep threads of that i was i would consider myself a super fan of never missing an episode but um you know even knowing like the feeling of like watching you know like Wentworth did not count. Wentworth, did not count. Just all of these moments that then are referenced, like we were talking about earlier, survivors referenced so many times in our culture. And the fact that we are all on this planet Earth right now, getting to live through it. And we all have, you know, Paramount Plus where we can watch any episode at any given time, it's fun, but it's very different. So they're coming and playing differently because you don't really have the time to kind of sit with it and noodle on this. these things like you did back in the day where you're kind of thinking about it for a whole week. And you've gone through 10 scenarios in a week versus when you're binging, you know the answer

to the winner by the end of the day. It is such a more communal experience now because of how interconnected we all are on social media and our devices where it is interesting to think about when I went to go play Survivor, I think I had probably talked about Survivor with like a real human being, maybe to like maybe like 10 people in my life prior to going and being on Survivor. And now everybody is just so connected, which I would love to come full circle and talk about something that you mentioned in the very beginning of the podcast where you talked about how the players you feel like that you could see where maybe people could start to believe what they are reading about themselves

from the commentary, from the Greek chorus that sits around and watches the shows. You've seen that before where a person might lose that sparkle in their eye, as Jam Jam once talked about, of that thing that made them special. Sometimes they lose that because of the reaction to the shows. Yes, I have a lot of thoughts about this. And I think it's almost like there needs to be more support around. it because you are casted to be on one of these shows, whatever it is, Survivor, Big Brother, Love Island for a reason. The reason is like the spark that is quintessentially you, like that you piece of

you, and you go on the shows and you're there just innocently playing this game as the best, most elevated version of yourself, you're excited, your dream is coming true in real life, Emma, is this just a jungle dream or is it real life? And then you, you're just a jungle dream or is it real life. And then you have the time. It's like broken up into time periods. So on shows where you get to watch the edit back with an audience at the same time versus like BB where they get out of the house and they have no idea what happened or how they were perceived. So on a show like Survivor, when you're watching it with the audience at the same time and you're excited. So you're going to go on Twitter and see what the Twitter community is talking about. Reddit.

What's Reddit saying? And so let me reverse. Let me go back one step. There's the step after you leave the game, your aunt, because your reality was your reality. That was your actual experience. Then you have the section two is you're talking with the only people that knew that you were on the show, whether it's your family and the people that you were casted there with. So you have your group chat.

The group chat starts out all 18. people. You're all chit-chatting. Everyone's happy. Go like, oh, this happened. Oh, are they going to show this? And it's exciting. You're building up. And you're still kind of that core, you know, group and it's fun. And then you get to the next level where then the announcement goes out. And the announcement brings a lot of thoughts because you have your press interviews out. You have a lot of information that people can come and interpret it however they want. And then that's when the idea of you and you're so rooted and your excitement. and who you are and who you showed up as starts to tilt.

And it's like, wait, what? But that's not what I meant. That's not what I meant by that. And you have a huge audience, millions of people, not only on the internet, but even millions of people that aren't even on the internet. Like literally, I was just at in and out last night. And someone was like, were you on Survivor? I was like, hi, that's me.

So it's like you have people in your, she's probably not even on the internet, but you have people that are watching you. So you have that first introduction of like, okay, well, like, I can't correct everyone. Then you go into seeing, and then you see, like, well, wait, they're saying that about this person, but I know this about that person. That's not true. And it's like, wait, that's not how it went.

So then you're like arguing and then it's like, okay, well, I'm still believing. Like, I know, which is, this is my like little bit of advice for anyone on these shows, is write down your experience or talk to the camera about your experience. That is your POV and it's important to hold true to your POV and what you thought and felt. during that excited time. So then episode one comes out and everybody has an opinion and it is so hard.

You can say, I'm not going to watch the internet. I'm not going to look at the internet. I'm not going to read the threads. But you do. You're human. I think the only person on my cast that did not was Heidi.

I don't think that she, I think that she protected herself in a way where her husband would read everything, which I love that about their relationship. She was just like, I'm having fun with it. And we love Heidi. And so I think she kind of got into the weasel.

But for the most part, I don't think she did. So once you start reading, so then you have this like wave of opinions. And you have a wave of opinions of like from all angles, the regular TV, the Twitter, you have all the universes, you have Reddit, you have Facebook, you have Instagram, and you might be loved on Facebook and then everyone hates you on TikTok or vice versa. So you have all this information happening. And so then you're kind of like, you lost that little, your light has like dimmed. And so like you're kind of resisting that shine, that bright shine.

So your resistance is turned down and you're like, okay, like what's, like what's happening or turned up? What's happening? Why am I like feeling this way? That's not how it happened. And then it's like you go through like the stages. I should actually write this out because it's like the stages of like grief. I am all ears. And yes.

Yeah, so, okay, no, pretend that I'm a person who had been on a reality show that hasn't been on the area. What advice would you have for me? I would say, write down your experience. Remember how you felt when you were going on to the show and stay true to that and who you are. And that, that excited, happy, joyful spark, that spark that spark that spark that's, literally the spark that got you onto that spark that no one could really figure it out or really exactly describe it. That's who you are. And that's why you're there and nobody will ever understand. And they're never going to be on the show. So don't listen to them. Don't listen to anyone that has any opinion other than, you know, I think you can get stage

advice from the people that have actually gone through this and gone through it during the internet days. Because I think that's the old school people. It's like, yeah, you have that. And And they had exposure in the way of, you know, the Today Show or Entertainment Weekly, which I still have some of those magazines. It's great. That's amazing. You know, but they didn't have the pressure and the comments. The comment, do not, I would honestly say, stay away from the comments if you can,

stay rooted to who you are. Don't ever lose your POV because then the phase, the last couple phases are once the season starts airing, it starts to really mess with your experience. You start to believe the edit, and then if you believe the edit, you're believing, so the edit is for the viewer. The viewers are believing the edit. That's the only experience they have. And so if the viewers are believing that, that's what they're amplifying online. Even though that might not be the truth, it's never the truth.

It's not. We're watching a curated real. It's a real show. We really went out there and played without any help from anyone. but it's curated to tell a story for three people, the three people that make it to final tribal. So if you can, remember that, and don't lose your POV and all of that,

but remember that the story is being told for these three people so that you can root for the underdog, root for the person that is the fastest step puzzles or root. So that story, so your story might get lost in all that, which is important, again, going back to the first steps, which is write down or talk through your experience because that might not ever make the error and it might not make sense the way that things are put together. They're putting it together for entertainment purposes for ages, I think, seven and up now. So it's going to be a simplified

version of your experience. And it will never be the real thing. You'll never have that. But whatever you do, then, don't lose your spark. And in the way of like, and I can tell in someone's eyes when they read the internet like i can tell if i met a person before their seasons aired and then i meet them at merge at a watch party i can see it in their eyes and it's like you see it's it's the sparkle that jam jam jam talks about it's like it's dimmed and it's like they don't want to believe it because then it's they don't want to believe the the comments and they want to stay strong and powerful and you can say as much as you want like oh i don't i don't believe the comments it's not natural to read a million opinions about yourself and so our brains weren't designed for this that we

we have brains that were designed for like caveman life eating worms you you were only supposed to meet like a hundred people in your whole life you weren't supposed to be able to like look at your magical device and see here's what a thousand different people think about you. Correct. And it's like back in the day, I didn't know the news that was happening in Australia because we weren't meant to know that unless it made it into the encyclopedia where I had to go the library and pull out A through B, Encyclopedia. What happened in 1999? You know, so it's really you're so, so no. And and I say this also because obviously my lived experience is like I thought that I would be strong enough to handle it, but it's painful.

Yeah. It hurts. Like, it hurts when you know that you played a certain way or, you know, your sound bite was clipped a different way to sound this way. It's like, so you kind of have to really understand the production side of it, creating and curating a show for entertainment purposes that you were there and it's your lived experience. you know, they can't really, they can only curate it so much.

So what you said is what you said, but they can use what you said for or against you. And that is if you are the final three, four, then you're, you're likely going to have a shot at them wanting to, and I say this, the edit wanting to create a story where people root for you and they stay tuned in. Like if they, if you're voted out midseason, like what's the? the point that, you know, so, so I would say don't dim your light, stay full blast as much as you can. Obviously, it's still an exciting thing. You know, you're seeing these memes come out and you're laughing. You have to laugh at yourself. You have to laugh at it. And you have to also then realize, like, when you see the hate comments, it's like, they're never going to be on survivor or understand it. And like how sad that, like, because if you think about it,

sometimes I sit there and I think like, if I'm on my phone, it would be so hard for me to sit there and write something mean, like, to just truly be like, you are the dumbest. Like, could you imagine typing that out? And you're like, send. Very mean things. It has to like, I think it's the meanest. That's like the nicest version of the meat. But it's like, imagine doing that.

And I can see myself making a joke. I'm not going to say, like, I've probably said regrettable things on a podcast. But, but like I'm trying to be funny. There's a fine line It's also entertainment purpose So you have to play into that And especially for me The only

The only way that you will survive Your post game season Is playing into the edit You have to cheer on the edit The edit is what happened The winner won for a reason And the You have to

You have to just play the game You're still playing the game After you haven't played the game in over a year So you're reading this stuff about you And it's like, you have to just laugh about it or, you know, go, you have to find. And then also I will say the other thing is don't lose who you are then in this. Like, you have to keep strong to if you go running every morning, if you do yoga every morning,

whatever it is that you do, keep doing that as you're watching this unfold because and it happens. I'm not talking just Survivor. It's like you can see the shiny, sparkly person that is on like season one. and then if they're like a reoccurring character you see the difference i mean they're different season two this goes for reality across the board and i grew up watching reality tv i mean we were just talking about like oh eight housewives are different than the 2025 housewives so it's just a very uh it's a very meta thing to go through and it's not something we're built for and if you can just stay out of the weeds of the comments you will be better off have fun and have fun with your

cast which will support you um and And other, there's a huge survivor community in, in all areas, in RHAP, in Bryson Wend, and finding those connections where you can build each other up and know. And Survivor, like, real, recognize, real, like, you know, when you're a survivor player, you see another survivor player, you know what we've all been through. Like, and it's, it's something that it's fun. And I wouldn't change anything because it just makes you stronger, not to be, like, so cliche about anything, but it truly does.

it does give you this different kind of like interpretation of the world and then like understanding oh yeah the internet is just it's it's wild so just stay true to who you are don't lose your POV take care of yourself self-care and um yeah don't ever forget your experience is true it's the real life one and you might not have ever like i want to say this actually uh like cane and i Kane and I had Triple R, our little alliance, and that never got covered. We talked about it all the time. And it was like, realize, realize, realize. And if he's watching this, he's going to laugh.

But that was like our Triple R alliance. Wait, who was in Triple R? It was Kane and I, which is also another reason that I gave my idol to Kane thinking knowledge of power was there because we were number ones in everything, ride or die, triple R. I was like, yes, this is it. And it's the, you know, the real eyes, realize, realize, like, realize, like, you realize something, real eyes, realize. Anyway. I have, I'm not following this at all, but okay. Okay, sorry, I'm rambling.

I'm rambling. But my point is, though, some stuff never makes the TV show. And that's fine. And so you have to just support the TV show that's out there and have fun with it, even though you might not be the center of the storyline. That's okay. But you're making so many interesting points and that to everybody who went and go and to play on in the game, everybody probably felt like that they had main character energy of that, okay, well, this is my story. This is going to be great when everybody sees that. And there's a disconnect when that isn't how the editors or producers felt like the story went.

Exactly. And that's okay. If you, you have to be okay with being an NPC for the season. Even Matt was like, oh, there was, I thought there was a lot of things that I was doing that they would have shown. Exactly. And I think that's everyone's key takeaway once you start to watch it back. And also, and I say keep your POV because you don't have to necessarily believe the edit. Because the edit is the curated version for entertainment purposes that is fun for memories and it'll trigger reminders.

But that's not exactly how it unfolded. Because also, the reason that I love Survivor and why I love it so much since day one is it's such an intricate game. It is so layered, multifaceted personalities dimensions. This game is amazing for that reason. And it is so hard to tell that story to a 7-year-old and a 13-year-old and a 30-year-old and a 35-year-old that are all watching. They all need to interpret this the same way. That's their core demo that they're trying to tell a story for. when you're playing this social game, there's so many pieces to it that no one will ever understand and you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay with that. Because there's so many pieces that even producers don't realize that you're doing. They don't know why you said that. They don't know why you gave the majority of the coconut to this person that can't eat the papaya. They don't know why. And that's like part of the social piece of it. There's so many layers to it that are never exactly displayed on that are so power. That's a

powerful move in the game, but nobody would ever think that. But it's like, no, they remember that because that's how you made that person feel. So anyway, that's why I love Survivor, because it's a social game with many layers and you can go on and on. And if you put the same 18 people on, or you put all winners on or you put all, it's always a different game. There's so many different POVs, life experiences. And you bring back people and you see that little shine go out. And it's like, don't lose the shine. Like, don't lose the shine. Just go back and be you in the best, most animated, elevated, like the elevated version of you that you know, you know when you just feel that in your, when you're aligned, that feeling of alignment of just like, I'm doing

what I'm supposed to be doing. This is it. It's just such a beautiful. So you kind of have to like find your way back to that. I've heard that described when that feeling of alignment. It's when the seven-year-old version of you and the 80-year-old version of you are both approving of what the present you is doing, that's when you feel that alignment. That's going to make me cry. That is so beautiful.

That really is it. That's the sweet spot. That's like the shiny, sparkly you that is there so confident and rooted in your excitement for life. We're here on a speck of dust

suspended in a sunbeam. at this time during Survivor. We're celebrating the 50th season coming up. So it's like, if you can find that aligned version of you and just amplify it and obviously like take time to heal because I know everybody is reading the internet, everybody's watching the podcast. And again, like the podcasts are part of the fun. They're leading on the edit.

They're reading the edit. They're analyzing the edit. And it's part of the fun in what they say goes. I mean, that's the truth. And it might hurt some people's feelings. But that's okay. That's what you signed up for. I think that there can be more, like, more transparency around, like, what that means,

because you don't know what it means when you go to play. You forget that there is only going to be three or four main characters. That's just it. There's more transparency on the part of the producers and the production of, like, hey, just so you know. Because I think they probably, and I think that they have taken a lot of strides to try to, okay we are going to really try to tell everybody's story and we have 90 minutes and so I think that they do earnestly want to try to like give everybody their moment and try to like that they try not to really dunk on too many people like they used to back in the day but really at the end

of the day it's probably only going to be like five or six people that they're really going to feature out of the 18 person cast yeah I think this is a new part of yes it's a new part of the evolution where they are putting the efforts in, especially with the larger 90-minute episode, it's never going to be, you're an art project for them. You are an art project that you're a tool in their art project and they get to, you know, make funny scenes and create exactly the art that they want to put out in the world. And that's how you have to think about it. It's not a documentary. It is literally an art project, a fun, entertaining show that can have some really cool, you know, moments, blind sides, mud, challenges,

whatever they want to highlight. And so I think that there's been more efforts to it, but also like on the back end, I think would be really helpful for people because again, and like I'm interested in it across the board with reality TV that spark not dimming for people. And what is the solution? Is it more back and support directly? from production because, you know, because they're telling the story that they want, you know, podcasts and all media and all of the fans to recognize. And that's fine. That's what you signed up for.

And so, so anyway, it just, it can hurt. And even if it's just one bad comment, I mean, you get a ton of great comments, but the one bad one sticks out and it's not even worth, even, and that's the other thing is, like, you can't believe the good comments either. Like, you have to be neutral in comment zone. Like, somebody can say, like, I love you. my gosh, you're the best person on the planet, but it's like, if you give that power, then you're giving the person power that is like tearing you down. So you really have to

be find the space of neutrality and maybe that's it. But it's just, it's a pattern and especially, and the longer and the bigger your audiences, like the Love Island audiences are huge. And they just, they're lights, like it just dims. And I'm like, no, you are, you're the shiny star that you were episode one. This is such an interesting conversation. It really is. And I think that, um, just to go back to your question of like, what, what, what can be done about that. I think that really what the issue is is there might be an expectation of that you go and participate in this surreal, thrilling, you know, out-of-body experience and you have all of these dreams about what it's going to be and what it's going to mean in terms of

like your importance and the change it's going to bring to your life. And then if for whatever reason it doesn't turn out to be that. I think that those comments especially are like a reminder that it was not that experience that you dreamt of, that you, that you envision. And I think it's all the more reason why they are hurtful. And I think that that's where the spark ends up getting drained from people because of the unmut expectation. And I, you know, many people have said, you know, expectation is the great thief of joy. It is.

You know, I think that we can't resist coming into these experiences with these expectations. And then some of the times, for some people, those expectations are met, and it's amazing.

And for others, it's an unfulfilled expectation. And sometimes that could feel worse than the thrilling part felt. Yes. exactly and you that's the key is not letting that outweigh the dream that came true that expectation because the the other thing is your mind is so powerful so if you are you do kind of want to envision and visualize like what would it be holding the million dollars like I remember

when they told me like okay pick out what jury outfits you want to bring and I was like what I'm not going to the jury like why am I sent now and so it's really there's like that balance of balancing like okay I'm visualizing this is my experience but also I'm not going to expect that, but then it's like you, it's like perfect, you have to find the balance of like expectations and visualizing what you want to happen, but then also be, um, what is it? You have to have your, um, like the heal, whatever you do to heal and to stay rooted and true to you. So if it's like yoga, running, meditation, working out, whatever it is to kind of clear your mind and stay true and rooted to yourself and keeping your shine,

everybody knows what makes them shine like what is it is it you know reading is it whatever it is keep doing that so that you don't lose yourself in this experience that is again your dream just came true you cannot be mad at it at all it's just a matter of adapting to the missed the the the different your expectations being stomped on and and and then also not losing sight because it's like you don't want to go into everything uh with without expectations because it's like you do want to kind of have expectations so it's it's a balancing act that's just so hard to play and like you said we can't resist we can't resist having a high expectation and you know wanting to have whatever your expectation was whether whether it's you know um you want to be like

a legend or how you want to be perceived it's like you'll never be able to control that you can just control how you feel in the moment and know that your dream came true. And now that, and literally, now that you know that that dream came true, anything's possible. Literally, anything's possible. You can do anything. Like, you went and you said you wanted to play a survivor and you did it. Like, what's, what's next? Like, that's the cool thing. Like, anything's possible. Yeah, you have to be able to enjoy the experience regardless of the outcome. You have to separate the outcome from the doing of the thing. And I think that that's the way to carry yourself.

Easier said than done sometimes. And to anybody who's listening who might, you know, be resonating with this conversation, what I would say to them, and I've gotten to speak with so many survivors over the years, and especially people who are huge fans of the show who maybe it didn't go their way, I always tell them like, hey, this was just like one cool thing that you did. I can't wait to see what else you're going to do. That's it. That's exactly it.

It's like, and it's a drop in the bucket. Like, it's a very cool thing, but it's not your entire personality. Yeah. It's really, it's not, your dream came true and keep the dreams coming. Like, what's next? Like, write it down, whatever it is that you work towards and believed in that made this come to fruition for you, you can do anything now. So it is, I think that's really great advice, especially to not, and to not really, you can't really blame anyone. You can't blame anything.

It's just, you have to take it and roll with the punches. And like, they hurt, but you'll get over it. Like, it's really like, it's not that big of a deal. And here's the real irony is that there are people who have won the show that you wouldn't want to switch places with. There are people who have gotten all of the air time that you wouldn't want to be for a day. And, you know, just because they got what you really wanted doesn't mean it worked out great for them. Rejection is your protection. I haven't heard that. It's, yeah, it's like if it's, it's protecting you in some way. And, you know, it's, it's easy to be like on the outside looking in wishing, but you can't you, because there's people in the

outside looking and wishing that they got the chance to go on the beach. So you have to meet. Think about these alternates who were so, you know, like, oh, like this stinks. I didn't get on the show. Yes. And I think if you can meet whatever pain that a comment or, you know, the aftermath, like that last phase of like watching yourself back on national TV and having everybody chime in, like the freaking, if you can, if you can meet that pain with gratitude, like truly it kind of

kind of sounds like a little woo-woo, but truly, like, meet it with gratitude and remember how grateful you were when you got the call or the FaceTime and you're going to be on the next survivor, you know, going back to the gratitude and how grateful you are for having had that experience that only what, there's like 700 or 800 of us that have ever played, 751, like that is amazing. That is, we are so lucky. We got to play. We all wanted the same thing and there's only one winner per season so it's some of them win twice yeah some of them if you're if you're amazing like the queen um you can go in without any twists and and do it twice remember that matt yes take note matt yeah all right yes well jamie this was such a delight

uh i consider myself very lucky to have gotten the chance to have talking about all this with you and this was so much fun thank you for making the time i had so much fun yes so much fun yes so happy thank you thank you for having me i love love you guys love the podcast and i hope to see you guys soon hopefully i can make it to one of your events and we can celebrate in person okay um jamie what else is going on for you what should people check out you know well well i'm here you said jami will jami will eat a worm if her video gets one million views on instagram i forgot i didn't think anyone would notice i read it i was gonna i was gonna put it up and I was getting too many I was on the Rob is the podcast Instagram account I was getting too many

notifications I close it yes I did write that if there's a million views or a million likes I wrote I wrote something if that video gets a million views I'll eat a worm or two or two okay and I'll go I'll go live and I'll do it and you'll go live with Jimmy Haggerty yes the but the the series that we talked about is really what I have had so much fun the last month and a half creating. I was so inspired. It just kind of came to me like, I need to do this because food is my thing. And I love sharing this and I love sharing all these recipes of what we really ate on the island because I think it's also a missing piece of like you're literally not eating out there. And especially if you don't have buyer. So anyway, I have my whole, all of my videos planned.

There's like 15, like 12 for each episode. And then I have some bonus ones. And I always throw in bonus ones because I ramble, as we can tell from this podcast. And yeah, so if you want to check that out, I'm posting them on TikTok and Instagram. I think I'm going to throw them up on YouTube as well, just to kind of get it out to the Survivor universe of, hey, do you want to learn what we're actually eating on the podcast and take some inspiration to make it at watch parties? But the key is you've got to tell everybody that comes to your watch party not to eat for the entire day so they can have the real survivor experience of how it's good it tastes when you're really, really hungry. So it's very different when you eat all of these items when you're hungry. You know, that's another thing that we could explore some other time maybe is that the key to enjoyment of anything is deprivation. And that's when people see like, Rob, what do you eat for a snack?

And I'm like, oh, I put the protein powder in Greek yogurt. Like, that's not a snack. I'm like, well, if you don't eat any other snacks, that's a good snack. Yes, exactly. And it's, it's, it's, um, you meet a kid that has no toys. You take them to the dollar store, best day of their life. And he loves the toy. Yeah.

Exactly. And that's the biggest lesson from the island also is you realize you don't really need anything. You don't have anything. You get home and you're like, I have too much stuff. Um, but yeah, you can find me at Jamie Lynn Reese across all of the platforms and check out the series, everything I ate when I was on Survivor. My name is Jamie.

I was on Survivor Season 44. And I'm sharing everything that I ate. Okay. That was my little intro. which I, which P.S. I love Riz God's intro that he does or his, the way that he describes himself on, R-I-Z-G-O-D, the man, the myth, the legend, Riz God, baby. Yes. Put it on a t-shirt. It's so good. I love it. You know, I don't even know what a Riz God is. I mean, maybe, maybe what's her name will know?

Who? She might pray to that God. Oh, Shannon, praise to the Rizgod. Yes. I don't know. Maybe. Who knows? All right.

Thank you so much for joining us. We have got Kenny Huang from Survivor Cabone, joining us for the old school interview. And I'll be doing the patron Q&A as well on Friday. So check that out. Plus Club Condo coming up and everything else in our we know Survivor feed. Thank you for listening, everybody. Take care of a good one. Bye.