RHAP: We Know Survivor - Jerri Manthey Talks Survivor 48 Ep 9

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

This week, Rob and the original Survivor Black Widow, Jerri Manthey, discuss Survivor 48 episode 9!

Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Sestrino back. And how lucky are we here tonight to have the chance to speak with some survivor royalty. I'm so excited to get the chance to reconnect with the great Jerry Manthee. Jerry, how are you? Oh my gosh. What an intro. Thank you so much for calling me. What was it? A classic? Yes, I think a classic. Yeah. Is that not the right word? No, I think that's that's pretty dead on. Yeah. I mean, we're we're the OGs.

We're well, to me, like it's very special because to me, like you are one of the OGs. I remember how excited I was to first meet you back in 2003. I was so excited. And I remember that we had lunch. I was so thrilled. We did have lunch. Yes, yes.

And it was very memorable for me, not just getting to see you, but it was a couple of days after my finale, and we got to meet up, and I got to have some one-on-one time with you and I was just so over the moon and we went to the Carnegie Deli. Oh my gosh, I can't believe you remember that. Yes, yes. And it was very notable. And we even had a run in with Ryan Seacrest. Yes. Yes. You had met him before?

Yeah, I had gone on a couple of dates with him, in fact. Sorry. Never gets old, does it? Never gets old, does it? Yeah, and no, it was just such a thrill. And then we went to, then it was just a couple days later that then I saw you at the upfront and they announced the Survivor All-Stars. Yeah, I do remember, that was fun. The upfronts that year, those were- It was a big surprise to me

because I didn't even know that there was gonna be a Survivor All-Stars. Yeah, they were really good at keeping things pretty secret back then. Yeah, yeah, maybe not so much, but you know, I did not know that that was going to be a thing. And it was a wild week, but yeah, I really appreciated that you made some time for me then and certainly made some time for me now. Aw, well, it's always a pleasure. Yeah.

I mean, I was equally excited to meet you too back then and now. Yes, and reconnect. It's even especially a delight because I happen to be re-watching Survivor Heroes vs. Villains this spring, which it's also the 15 year anniversary of Survivor Heroes versus Villains.

So we have been going back and rewatching that season. So I've also been experiencing the, getting some gerrymancy in my life, even now. I mean, if you're going to watch any season, I think that's a good one to watch. For sure. Have you gone back to watch season two by any chance? I did when we did during the COVID year when we had no Survivor. We did a countdown of the 40 weeks of we ranked all the seasons. And I did go back to Survivor, the Australian Outback. I will say, um, I really like I would say, uh, it's a little, uh, slower than I remember in the real time.

Yeah. It's also, it's very hard for me to watch because a lot of the things that happened that season would not fly. Yeah. Now with the new like everybody kumbaya stuff. Yes. I mean, it's some it's so funny. Someone just came up to me yesterday at a winery. Yeah, I live in Valley now and he's like, oh, it's Jerry the villain. I'll always remember you as the villain.

You're so good at being a villain. And I said, OK, I'm going to ask you a question. Name one thing I did that was. Yeah. And he was he couldn't answer me. Like, and if you go back and watch that season, I didn't I didn't do villainous. I never I've never even lied to anybody, Rob, in three seasons as a villain. It doesn't make any sense. But there had been, at that point in time, when you all went to go play,

I think that there had been exactly like, you know, the real world people, and then 16 people were from Survivor. And then here comes everybody meets Jerry, and then they just ran with it of like, okay, this is the villain and everybody get on board. And they did. Yeah. It was like, I know that Jeff has gone on record now

of saying that they no longer believe in the hero and villain roles in the show, but back then it was like they almost looked specifically for those two characters to be filled every single season. But I didn't do anything villainous on that season. And I'll stand behind that. In fact, go back and watch it. I'm the one who got bullied.

Like they really bullied me. Like it was very hard for me to watch it. A couple of years ago, I revisited it. It was so triggering and it was very hard for me to accept that I'm the one who got bullied, but I got turned into the villain. It's so bizarre. What do you think it was about you

where I was thinking about this a little bit, the leading up to this interview. And I just feel like that I'm trying to think back to like, why for so many people did it resonate that this is somebody who could be labeled a villain? And I'll I'll tell you my stupid theory and you tell me if you think of anything. I just feel like that, you know, as compared to Tina, who I think was sort of like the, you know, you know, woman who was like, OK, going along with like, you know, nice, nice,

nice. And then to have somebody who was like not afraid to upset the apple cart a little bit and to have a different opinion. I think especially in society at that point in time, that was not necessarily something that was celebrated. Somebody who's willing to like question things even a little bit. No, I mean, a short answer to that is I was a woman. So I was an easy target to be villainized. And it was, it was a different era. It was before hashtag me too. It's before it was okay for women to stand up for themselves

and speak their mind. And I just, you know, I've always been that way. That's what I told Jeff recently. I was like, I'm, I'm consistently me. I will always present who I am without any filters. I've gotten a little bit more, uh, gentle with my words and I've learned to choose them more wisely, but I'm still the same person. Yeah.

Now, do you still keep up with all these survivors and everything with Survivor in the New Era? I do actually. I quit watching, I think, after Heroes and Villains, so I didn't watch quite a few seasons until the winners at war. And wow, what a disappointing season that was. Why was it disappointing? Well, I mean, there's a long laundry list there, but the fact that all the OG players got picked off first and there was just a lot of very strange moves made by them.

It was almost like, they were still trying to play the way we used to play in a different time. Yeah, it was a very disappointing season. And I think I really wanted Natalie to win that season. She was the first one voted off and went to that island and literally survived there by herself the entire time and kicked everyone's asses. Like I still think she should have won that season. Yeah.

Okay. Well, good. Because a lot of people, Jario, would be purists from the, you know, back in the day of that. We didn't have Edge of Extinction. And so that's interesting to hear you say that. Yeah. You welcome it. Yeah. didn't have Edge of Extinction. And so that's interesting to hear you say that, yeah, you welcome it. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm enjoying the reason why I think I'm enjoying the new era now is

hour and a half and you get some backstory. And quite frankly, I'm jealous that we didn't get to share our backstory and become human beings, which is what I was trying to say when I got booed off the All-Star reunion. I remember. I was trying to make the point that now is exactly what I wanted out of Survivor. Like, I think, I feel like maybe because of what I said

and how the visceral reaction people had to what I was saying, that that kind of helped shape what's happening now. I feel like I'm a part of that. OK. Well, let's say hypothetically, we saw you in the new era and we saw a backstory about gerrymanthi. What would we be seeing in your backstory?

A very determined, passionate person who literally left her whole life behind to move to LA to become an actress without fear, without trepidation, without knowing anybody. And I think it would have helped people understand me a little bit more in that when I want something, I go for it. And that's just who I am. Yeah, so I mean it wouldn't be a tragic story about horrible things that have happened to me because I you know, that seems to be more the the route they go now, but but okay, so I feel like I don't really know that part of your back story I know that your background is you your dad was in the army, right? And you

moved around a lot when you were younger. But I don't know the part of the story when you first went to California. Oh, well, I mean, I knew I was an actor since I was nine years old. I was in theater. And that's like my true passion even to this day. And so at some point I knew I was going to have to move to LA. I knew it. And I, this chain of events occurred. I met a manager, I was living in Florida. He said, when do you want to move to LA? I said, right now.

And he was like, well, hold on. I need to get out there first. And I just picked up and I moved across the country. I had this really beautiful bonding experience with my dad in the car on the way there. Oh, he drove you? Yeah, I was going to drive myself

and my parents were like, OK, if this is what you want to do, your dad wants to drive with you across the country to make sure you get there. And I was like, oh, my God, I'll just it's fine. I'll drive on. I'll pull over on the side of the road when I get tired and sleep in the car. Yeah.

But yeah, my dad drove there with me and it was amazing. Then I got to LA and I hit the ground running. I started getting crazy auditions. I had a manager, I had an agent. It was instant for me. There was no law in trying to figure out how to make it work. I had everything just fell into place. Yeah.

And I feel like I was actually gaining some real momentum and then Survivor happened. And I thought that was going to be the catalyst for the next level, next tier of my career. And in a lot of ways, it totally squashed everything. Because when you're an actress, or actor, you know, the audience wants to get lost in the story, but then it's like, hey, oh, there's this person

from Survivor in the middle of the movie, and, you know, that they, you know, for whatever reason, weren't willing to do that. I think it was also, to be quite honest, that people had villainized me to such a degree that people in the industry didn't wanna work with me. Like they actually believed that I was this horrible person.

Oh, wow. Yeah, and I had a lot of awful interactions with people on the streets, like people cursing at me and like calling me a bitch in traffic and like some really crazy things happened after I did Survivor. So in some ways, you know, in retrospect, I feel like it kind of crushed my dreams.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of things came out of it. I can't, I won't complain, but I, now I can look back on it and go, you know, I was actually getting somewhere like right before survivor. I was in a movie with Vincent and off Rio, Gary sneeze, Tony Shalhoub, Paul Sarvino directed it. It was a big movie on Showtime. And I was like, you know, moving up towards getting somewhere.

And then you have all this reality TV notoriety, which now somebody that has that kind of notoriety could probably really monetize it and do a lot with it. But I just feel like that. But your personality, I feel like is not that of somebody who is like looking for like that kind of reality TV notoriety. No, no, not at all. Like I would love to get back into the world of acting and, you know, start working up that ladder again. But this, it kind of pigeonholed me and I haven't been able to get out of that. And so right now I'm like, well,

shoot, I guess I should just embrace it if that's the only thing I can get. But I mean, I would love to do traders. I'm still everybody keeps telling me like, oh, you're great traders. I'm mean, I would love to do traders. I'm still everybody keeps telling me like, oh, you traders. I'm like, I would love to do it. Yeah. But I'm also in this weird place where, you know, they're looking for the newer players. And I don't, I don't know. You know, not always the case. I mean, I feel like I've seen some of your tribe mates from Survivor Heroes versus Villains on the traders recently. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. A few of them. I know, I know. And they've all recommended the producers get a hold of me. So I'm like, you know, I would totally do that. You know what? I was thinking about this earlier of, you know, to spend this time talking with you. I don't know if I ever got to talk to you about that you were on a part of like, one of the first reality experiments with all these people from these other shows

in that you went to go do the Surreal Life. I did, season one. Yeah. Which was the only season to me that I think was watchable. The other ones were kind of a circus. Yeah. And just in case, you know, that there are some of the younger viewers who may not know what this is, but it was like the first show that took like people

a bunch of like famous people and they lived in like a house with a bunch of cameras. Yep. I was there with Corey Feldman, MC Hammer, Vince Neil, Gabriel Pateras, Emmanuel Lewis, Brandi Roderick. It was fun, it was a lot of fun. I also did Joe Schmo. Yes. I just recently realized that Kristen Wiig.

Yes, this is the doctor. She was on the season I was on. Yeah. Oh, my God, look at her now. Like, she got out of reality TV. Look at that. Yeah, I think she got injured or something, like, during the filming of it. I heard about that, yeah.

She was like, I'm out. I'm out. I'm tapping out of Jo Shmo. Yeah. Let me ask you your thoughts on, okay, so Survivor 48, we're down to like only eight people now. Do you have any thoughts about this group of people that are playing this season? I do.

I actually met some of them recently. Yes. How did you meet them? So Ben Katzman invited me out to LA because he was doing an improv show. Yes, I saw this. Yeah. And so they he invited a bunch of other survivors. It was such a cool night. They pulled a bunch of people up on stage to play improv and Ben

like made them put a spotlight on him and he's like, it's now story time. And he went on and on this next survivor that I'm calling up to the stage is one of the, you know, just, I mean, he laid it on so thick and it was so, I almost started crying. He said the most lovely amazing things about me and then brought me up on stage and I played some improv games with everybody. It was a real, it was a fun night for me just to like, just to have someone like, you know, appreciate the old days, you know, it's always nice to see that. Yeah, do you do any improv? I used to. I actually did sketch comedy for several years. I was part of an all-girl sketch comedy group called Blow Girls.

And then I was at Second City for a while. We did a show called TMI instead of TMZ. Yeah. OK. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I miss the stage so much. It's like just being back in LA for that event was really fun for me. But I got to meet David. Yes. Okay. And he's the man of the hour this week as he got voted out. Yes. And actually, I did want to say something about that. So there was a comment, it was kind of just thrown off the cuff during the episode. And I'm trying to think,

I think it was Kyle who I just think is so smart. He said something like, David's trying to play like the Boston Rob game where he won't let anybody walk away and no one's allowed to talk to anybody. I was like, amen. Thank you for calling that out because I have my own opinions about Boston Robb. I'll share them if you want. But I cannot stand that controlling, just overly aggressive, just overly aggressive bullying game.

He used the word bullying. And that I just cannot get behind at all. Because I've been a victim of that, both with Rob and with Russell in the same season. And anytime I see that, it's very triggering for me. Yeah. Well, I just was watching in Heroes vs. Villains where... But ultimately, it was you who got out Rob in that game. Yeah, I did.

So that's what happens when Rob plays against other players who know how to play the game. Because if you put him up against all of his biggest fans, of course he's going to win that season. But you can't win when he's playing with people who are seasoned professionals. Well, in that Villains Tribe, you also were there with Coach. And David, I think, got some coach comparisons this season

about wanting to play with the honor, integrity, loyalty, try to keep that alliance. How do you react when you hear that? I think it's naive. I think it sounds great in theory, but eventually everyone has to turn on each other. It's just part of the way it works. It, I don't think there's ever been a season where everybody who's playing a hundred percent honestly gets anywhere.

You just can't. Um, I, I appreciate that. That's what they're saying, but I, what I don't appreciate is that they're pulling this, Oh, the, the big tough guys got to stick together and make it to the end and stop being meat shields. I'm like, shut up. Yeah. David's had it.

That is not going to have these, you know, the guys just picked off anymore. Well, I will say this. He's really hot. Oh, okay, Jerry. Yeah, he sat next to me in the theater and I was like, I grabbed his arm, it was like this big around. I was like, oh my God, I had to fan myself. Jerry, did you hear the story though about that he said that he had a girlfriend

and his girlfriend said to him, yeah, if you don't win Survivor, we're gonna break up. And he said, that's what he said. Oh, he didn't tell me that story because I asked him, I said, where's your girlfriend? He was like, oh, well, that didn't work out. Why? Well, he didn't want to give you a spoiler, Jerry. Oh, that's right. That's right.

Yeah. It was very sad. Well, then he chose poorly. Yeah. It was very sad. Well, then he chose poorly. He already found a new girlfriend, some other girl from Survivor. I can't remember her name, but yeah. All right. Well, as for the blind item. The blind item? Yeah.

This is like you're back to not TMZ of breaking the news of who David is dating. Oh, I can't remember her name. She's from our previous season. That's fine. That's fine. No, you don't have to give it away. She's very cute. I didn't even recognize her because you know how people look so different when they have

makeup on. Yes. What do you think about the Joe and Eva duo? Um, I flip-flop back and forth with that one. Like, I mean, I, again, I think Joe is being very naive and thinking that he can just go the whole way through it, the two of them side by side, they're obviously gonna be a threat. They are a threat. But there's a twinkle in his eye. He's got a devious side to him that I think we haven't quite seen yet. I thought it was so interesting the conversation that David had with Joe when David told Joe that,

hey, you went back on your word. And Joe like instantly said, hey, no, I didn't. I don't do that. I'm not capable of doing that. You saw that shift, right? Yeah. He got very bristly. Yeah. He's got another side to him that we haven't seen.

Yeah. That will come out at some point. Yeah. I mean, I think we saw a little hint of it, but I think he's capable of playing a pretty devious game. But I think nowadays people are just trying so hard to not come off villainous. Yeah. That it's almost kind of inauthentic. And that's, that's what I see sometimes with these people who are like, oh, we're going to play an honest game like David too, like honest. But then how honest is it to be so controlling of people? Why is it do you think that people are trying so hard to not be seen as playing a dishonest game?

Because they want to be liked. I think it's part of this new era and this culture we're living in right now. People don't like people to not like them and they censored themselves. I think we were a little bit more raw in the beginning. We're just like, who cares? But they probably seen the heroes go a lot further after the show than the villains is what I've, I mean, I've only seen the heroes go a lot further after the show than the villains is what I've, I mean, I've seen it. Yeah.

Do you think that part of it is like a self selection by the show that they are not like looking for the people who are the people who like might be looking for a little bit more of that heat? Looking for what? Attention? That type of, right, that are looking to like make their mark by being a villain. Yeah, I think they're they're purposely picking people who are like,

oh, I'm, you know, I'm a nice person and I'm going to play an honest game. I think they are. And I think the pendulum has swung. I think it's time for us to kind of find a middle ground. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

I was thinking about this earlier today also of that, you know, we play 26 days in the new era, but you were part of the only season that was 42 days. Could you imagine that's like, I mean, it's closing in on two seasons. I know, I know. It's crazy. Like I could do 26 days in my sleep. Give me a break. Well, they say it's harder because they don't get food.

What are you talking about? They're not even moving weight. They're, every time someone says, oh, this is way harder than the old school. I'm like, no, it's not. You guys haven't even lost any weight. They have, they're always eating coconuts and almonds and papayas and like all these different things. We didn't have anything. Yeah. Like remember?

I recall. Yes. Yeah. I'll be, you're in the Amazon. There was probably more things to eat there. We know we had like a staple of like the, the Maniak. When you were in the Amazon, there was probably more things to eat there. We had like a staple of like the the Manioc. It's like basically like rice. You know what it is from, you know, your extensive like culinary background. But we had but we had like a something some like like a barrel of stuff to like work off of it.

They don't get that now. But on the All stars, they didn't give us anything to start. No. And that was when they tried to tell us that the well water was infested with worms that could eat your brains. Yes. And we had to boil it even though Rudy was like, I'm not boiling that. That's fine. I drank water with bodies floating in it back in Vietnam. Oh, Rudy.

Don't we miss Rudy? I miss Rudy because I spent so much time with Rudy also because I went away for a long time with Rudy and Tina, Jerry. That was my experience in Survivor All-Stars. Oh, right. And you know, I'm also, like, I get very worked up about this because I was, like, you know, when I went out in Survivor All-Stars, you know, I was like, okay, well, now I'm gonna get to see everybody from the pre-jury.

And then after what happened with Rich and Sue, they broke us up and then they just sent me and Tina and Rudy and Rich somewhere. And then it was what you and Colby and Ethan went somewhere else. I think where you went was much better. It's like what the hell? I almost moved there. It was so you lead to Mexico. It was a really sweet spot for it was cool. I loved it. Yeah, I would have much rather done that. We went to well, look, I know a lot of people like we went to like Patagonia.

Like we went to like, it's like the bottom of Argentina. And it was fricking cold. And I just went on like, like day trips with, with Rudy and Tina with all due respect, you know, like, very, you know, nice people, but I was like 25 years old. Like that was, I thought I was going to like get to hang out with the fun young people. Well, just so you know, Colby and Ethan were not fun. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know that they had been talking smack about me the whole season, first of all, but they both had girlfriends and they were both

like together every single day. I did my own thing. I got up in the morning and I made I made friends with all the locals. I bought the jewelry. I hung out and had coffees with the yoga people in town. Like I had a blast by myself. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds nice. I did not have as much fun. I sent you to come hang out with me because I would have loved it. I would have loved it. I drank a lot and, you know, basically was just like miserable. And then and, you know, and Tina loved it. Tina was like, this is so fun.

Like, I'm like, like, put me out of my misery. I don't want to go fly fishing. You don't like fly fishing? Not really. Like we went on like a horseback riding to like hike up like horseback riding up a mountain. And Tina was like, fishing. Not really. Like we went on like a horseback riding to like hike up a like a horseback riding up a mountain and Tina was like, this is the best.

Like, you know, Rudy, Rudy would crack me up. But you know, enough, enough about me, Jerry. No, not. I love talking about you. Look, what else do you want to know? So I just recently, I mean, not super recently, but I was on Instagram the other day and saw that clip that the All Winners Survivor posted. What was it? What was I doing?

Where Jeff, we were at some All Star thing and Jeff pointed out. Oh, when Jeff said that, like, let me see. Let me see if Brandon can find the clip of this. And then my reaction. So it was the Survivor All-Stars finale that you mentioned, the famous one at Madison Square Garden. And then for somehow, I don't even know how they did this. That then it was like a late. It was the finale would go to like a lot like 11 o'clock at night.

Then there was a party and then somehow they got everybody to come out to be on the early show the next morning somehow. I don't even know. It wasn't like that, you know, we got paid to be at the on the early show or anything. Somehow it seemed like that they had like the whole cast there and yeah, uh, that there and Jeff was like hosting some kind of like second finale, second reunion show. I don't even remember that. I don't, I, very foggy memories of this also.

And then, uh, you know, if Brandon's working on finding the clip. But yeah, I think that Jeff like and I did not get asked a question at the Survivor and there was a lot going on. Like maybe like I might have maybe in Jeff's heart of hearts that there might have been like, all right, sister, you know, you good. Like like I might have just got like a throw. But I didn't even get asked a question. There was too much going on that the people were,

you know, booing, you know, like, you know, everything with Boston Robin Lex and Big Tom and Rob proposed to Amber. So, look, understandable they didn't get to me. But then Jeff brought it up the next day. And then I mean, what do you like? Like a dig at me. It was horrible.

I know. And he's from my reaction. I was like, OK, hold on. Brandon has the Brandon has the clip. OK, let me see if I can show this. OK, all winners. I don't know where they get this stuff I swear sometimes they put some things on their account. Here we go. All right Here's and I knew this was trouble when I said I said Jeff probes shades Rob sister Nino. So here's everybody Everybody here was picked because we knew they would play this game all the way

Look at a guy like sister Nino didn't even talk to him last night in the live show He made zero impact in this season one of the most popular guys to play the game Rob it's true, and he's still mad at me for not talking to him But my point is a great student of Survivor very funny quick-witted And yet you got 17 other people like Hatch and Rudy and she and I would think she would be this Mean it's true, but you didn't have to say it like that. I Don't think so just you being there. Mm-hmm You honestly, you don't have to say anything. But you should be on season 50.

You should be there. I agree. I definitely agree with that. Yeah. Hopefully one of us makes an impact in this season. Question at the reunion show. I feel like you never got to come back and really showcase the skills you have. I was so sad. I really was after that. And look, it all, like everything worked out fine. But, you know, the me who's on the screen is very sad. Didn't need to get. You look like a little boy in that.

I well, I had really not that much else going on, Jerry. This was kind of going to be it for me of like I was going to come back and do really good. And then it didn't happen. I made zero impact. And like I knew I knew that, you know, Jeff wasn't telling me anything it didn't happen. And I made zero impact. And like, I knew, I knew that, that, that, you know, Jeff wasn't telling me anything. I didn't already know. We didn't need to tell everybody on the early show. No, it was harsh. I bet he, he regrets saying that I would think. I bet he probably has never thought about that ever again. But I

think if you showed it to him, he might say that like, you know, besides maybe where's the lie, but he might say like, Oh, maybe he shouldn't have said that. Maybe. Yeah. You, you were a very memorable player from that era that just never really got to show everyone how great you were. Like I w I thought for sure in the all-stars you were were gonna kill it. Well, I think a lot of people might have thought that, and maybe that's what ended up happening to me. But you know, I had a tough group to start with.

I mean, you mentioned, Rob, but I didn't realize, you know, when we went there, that your old friend Amber, like I didn't know that this was gonna be like a beautiful love story and that that they were going to like fall in love in front of our eyes. And I know that you ultimately got the receiving end of this also. But I remember sitting there the first day and I'm like, oh, this is like they're making a very big mistake right now of like that they're just going to start dating in front of everybody.

Yeah. You know, it's funny cause on heroes and villains, Rob actually came up to me at some point when I was hanging out with coach all the time, he was like, Jerry, you know, what happens to couples, you need to be careful. And I'm just thinking, yeah, I know what happens to couples. You can win. Great. Shut up, dude. He was very threatened by me and coach Yeah, well especially and we were the in the first people that did three tribes So now it's like it was novel when we did it now. It's all they do

Yeah, the all-stars was the first time they ever did that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you know Can I ask you this question? When you, like, went to Survive for All-Stars and you went there with your tribe, right? Did you have any... Did it even occur to you that the people that you were with all these time, this time before the game started, was going to be your tribe? No. No.

I had no... Why? Did you? No, I didn't think that. I was like, oh, no. No. Why did you know? I didn't think that. I'm one of those very strange, weird people who like if by chance there's a rumor floated that we all might have a returning

season, I don't actively go out and try to find out who's coming back or whatever. Like I don't do that because I think it bites people in the ass and Heroes and Villains was a great example of that because there was some pre-gaming that happened that blew up in everyone's face. And I just, I think it's silly because you don't know there's all these factors involved when you get out there what's going to happen Yeah, but I'm talking about like that literally like the people that we went that you flew to Panama with that was your because it was we were with our literal tribes like traveling there I don't even remember. Oh, yeah

Yeah, I was like with like all those people for like like five days before the game started and then it's like wait This is it. This is these are the people we did the photo didn't yeah guide or something like before we went out there Yeah, I guess yeah, we took it. We did take a picture together So I don't know what I was thinking like okay. They're not real. This isn't really gonna be my tribe though, right? Oh Man, I I got Totally screwed on that one too. Yeah. We didn't, we didn't win anything. That was such a hard season. I almost quit. I remember. I remember the, the very bad storm. You said, it's not worth it. No, because the camera guy ran away. There's no footage of that entire night with outflunters. There's very bad lightning there in Panama.

Yeah, my hair soaking wet was like levitating. And we were all like singing songs and like trying to keep each other from losing our minds. And I believe that was also the same day that Rupert was building the underground shelter. It had been completed. And when the storm rolled in, I thank God had the foresight to tell everyone to wake up and get out of it. And right out of it, the whole thing collapsed. Oh, my God. You could have died.

Yeah. Yeah. Like. And again, I was trying not to be the villains. Yeah. You saved everybody's lives. Huge fight. Yeah. Yeah. We could have died that night. That still is so traumatic. And then so we were rewatching Heroes vs Villains. There's you guys play this game called Schmergen brawl. OK, it's basically when you're like wrestling and it's basketball. And there's one point where Rupert like throws you on the ground. Oh, right. Do you remember this? Yeah, he threw me up against the the guard.

Yes, yes, yes. And yeah, just like, you know, this is not working out with you and Rupert. No, it did not work out. My views of him have not changed. You know, there's a lot of underlying still floating around clashes of personalities to this day. Yeah. So when we've been rewatching the heroes versus villains and that the episode that

was just 15 years ago was when Parvati plays the two idols at Tribal Council. It's a huge moment in the season and one of the biggest moments in Survivor history. And the heroes write down your name at that Tribal Council. Did you have any suspicion that they were gonna be voting for you? I had no idea and it was actually my birthday. Oh.

Yeah. for you? I had no idea and it was actually my birthday. Oh, yeah. But I think Russell, was it Russell that was kind of leading them to that? Yes, Russell was kind of leading them to vote for me and then told poverty to play the his idol for me. Okay. So he didn't know that she had another one. And so she played that for Sandra first. And he was like, what the hell, poverty? And then she pulled another one out. Yeah, that was a pretty, that was a pretty monumental moment in Survivor for sure.

I don't think that that was in the episode that Russell was trying to get them to vote for you. I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we didn't have an hour and a half. You didn't have an hour and a half, right? Like there was so, so many great things that happened and never got shown because it just wasn't any time. That's why. And now they're just, you know, they film one episode, I think in one day and they get an hour and a half. Like it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. What was it like for you to deal with Russell in Survivor Heroes vs. Villains? It feels like that you don't seem to be, and maybe

you're saying that you have a, you know, this is your best acting work. You don't seem to be particularly annoyed with Russell, at least from any point that I can remember in the game that was he a different guy out there? Different from what? I don't know. Well, I kind of feel like the insane psychopath that he is. No, that's exactly who he was. Yeah.

But were you able to just deal with that? No, it sucked. It was frightening. I could. I have very keen sense for people who are dangerous. And I felt that, but I didn't ever let him know that I felt that way. Like this is this is again, we don't have an hour and a half. Like if someone had like pulled me over to the side and said, it looks like you're getting along great with Russell and poverty, I'd be like, oh hell no. Now I'm I was that's how the game I had to play.

So like this was part of what I was going to say at the end. If when I made it to the end to to win a million dollars was that from the very beginning, I never had an alliance. Coach and I were very close and then they voted him off, and I was just by myself. So I had to float. When I realized that Rob had

absolutely no desire to pull me into his little clique, and I was not part of that group at all. Then Parvati and Danielle and Russell over here, I just had to figure out like, where how can I go between the two and not? Every day was like a challenge for me not to completely lose my shit. But I got really good at that point in my life to just kind of, you know,

the old Jerry would have been like, like starting arguments, but I learned this. I learned how to win. That's why I wanna go back at some point. I'm not gonna lie, I do. Because I know I learned how to win Rob. Okay. Well, I wish I did. You. Oh, God, I would love to see you go back.

Well, I would love that too. But we're talking about you, Jerry. So you were so close in that last challenge, right? You were like, like what? Like a, like a hand away. Six inches, six inches away from a million bucks. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was really frustrating. And what would it, so then who would you have gone to the final? So if you have the immunity necklace and then what Russell wins it.

Yeah. Okay. So you win the, and then what would you vote out Russell? Um, I don't know. I mean, I want to sit next to him. I had no idea how much he was loathed by every single person that he voted out. We didn't know what was going on at Ponderosa, but apparently it was a lot. I probably would have kept, I probably would have kept Sandra and Parvati, to be honest, because they had both won a million dollars. And at one point I kind of had a female side alliance

with the two of them. Yes. So, you know, that would have been my argument is that they both already won a million dollars and well, there's a whole bunch of other things I was gonna say. Yes. But I feel very confident that no matter who I would have

taken with me to the end, I would have won because I feel like I really proved myself that season on many levels. Was that your favorite season that you played? Yeah. I mean, yeah, in terms of figuring out what I needed to do to win quietly. Yeah.

But Australia, despite how hard it is to watch that season, I had the most fun on that season. I mean, we had a canoe. We used to go out every morning in the canoe and go fishing and crocodiles would be popping up all around us. Like, I loved Australia. It was very similar to the desert camping trips I used to take in LA.

I really, I had the most fun on that season, even though you never got to see it. When you first ended up getting involved with Survivor, what was it about it that drew you to it? Just the idea that I could be put into a really extreme situation and prove to myself what I was capable of. Because I tell people all the time that are like, oh, I could never do that.

I'm like, you'd be surprised. You find this rhythm in daily life in the most difficult place, in the most difficult place, in the most difficult situations, and somehow you're set up, or I am, I guess I should speak for myself. I'm set up for survival, and I'm a big outdoors person, and I used to go out to the desert backpacking

with just what I could take on my back and stay for like three days. Like, it just, it seemed like the perfect opportunity for someone like me to really showcase what I'm good at. Yeah. Why did you go out to the desert? Um, well, I had a very secret spot. There were these hot springs, just like two hour drive outside of LA. Yeah. And it was just this magical spot and people would congregate around the hot springs, but I was shown a spot that was like another mile

past the hot springs and it was very remote and very rugged. I just- How did you find out about this? This guy that I was dating took me out there and I fell in love with it. Like I went out there, I think for probably four years, I would go out there every couple of months and just, you know, go camping with just a backpack. But I love the desert and you know, Australia, when they were like the outback,

I was like, Oh, I pictured, I pictured the red desert of Australia. I didn't really, it was bush. Right. I feel like looking back at that season, I feel like that, you know, it seemed like in the beginning, it seemed like kind of nice. And then it's like that as it went on, it seemed like less nice.

You mean Australia? Yeah. Well, yeah, everything there is trying to kill you. Yes. And it was a very fires, right? Also. Yeah. Yeah. There was like the crocodiles were real. That was real. We were living with crocodiles all around us.

And then those fires blew through. And I remember I just remember inhaling a lot of smoke every single day, just being like my lungs. Australia is super rough. I think it's honestly one of the best locations to do that show. I have not watched any of the Australian survivors. So they mostly film it actually in Samoa, where you were. I think that they did one season during COVID, I think they did one season in Australia. They don't even shoot the Australian survivor in Australia.

No, they don't shoot American survivor in America. You know, they do it all in Samoa. They're always in Samoa. That's so messed up. Samoa? Yeah. Good Lord. Yeah, they're in your old stomping grounds.

Yeah. There were no bugs there, by the way. In Samoa? Yeah, it was very bizarre. The locals don't even go in the water there. They believe it's haunted. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very... What do you think? There was definitely some spirits out there, for sure. We experienced an earthquake, some spirits out there for sure.

We experienced an earthquake while we were out there. Yes. Okay. Doorbell. Yes. You have a visitor? Yeah. You need to, you need to go to the doorbell?

No. Okay. Yeah. So we experienced an earthquake and then after the season was over and we were all off the island. Yeah. And of Samoa, a huge tsunami came and wiped out all of the entire production. Oh, my god. Yeah. Yeah. Did you know about I didn't know that? No. It was like maybe a month or two after we left. Yeah. And they just completely wiped it out. tsunamisunami, like think about that.

That could have been us gone. I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of horrific natural disaster with as many times as this shows. Yeah, yeah. Knock on wood. Like Jeff said at tribal council with David. Yeah. Wait, what did he say?

He's like, he's like, David was like, Hey, knock on wood. And Jeff's like, wait, hold on. You're knocking on wood. What? Jerry. Okay. Do you know what club condo is? No, Jeff keeps talking about club condo. Oh, so maybe it's like an LA thing. No, no, I think it was. What was he referring to the fact that they were all dancing? Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I, yeah, I didn't quite catch that.

I would think I might have been like eating dinner and watching TV at the same time. Yeah. What do you think about the evolution of Jeff now in the new era? Food loaded question. Because as like, you know, he's gone through so many different evolutions and, you know, you've, you know, I got to see a bunch of them from, I'm sure, like, in Australian Outback. Maybe this isn't your lived experience, but at least for me as a viewer, you know,

he's a little bit more like, hey, the buddy, like, especially like, you know, he's like, you know, hey, like, this, this guy Colby seems pretty cool. Like he's like almost like hanging out with the contestants. And then I'm sure by the time you come back in the All Stars, he's really like claimed like a little bit more of like, hey, this is my show. All you, you know, wisecracking kids. Like it's, you know, my way or the highway now. And then, you know, obviously, you know, then through then I think that he becomes, you know, a producer by the time you're in Heroes vs.

Villains. But now, like, I feel like we're sort of like in this, the new era where you know, it's a little bit more of the Jeff, like with a little bit more life experience. Kids. Kids. Yeah, I think, I think it's definitely gotten a little bit more soft. You know, I think like the season where he calls out that he's been saying, come on in guys.

Yeah. There's like this whole moment that occurs. No, no, not a lot of people did. Because honestly, like, my relatives are from the Midwest, everybody calls everybody guys. Nobody goes, oh my gosh, this is offensive. I just think that that moment was a little

blown out of proportion. And I know everybody's so sensitive now to to things that just didn't bother us back in the old days. Right. And I think it was also that it was like the show hadn't been on the air for a year because of COVID. And everybody was so excited and people, so many people discovered Survivor during the pandemic and like, OK, great. We're fine. Survivor is finally back.

And then it was like literally the first thing that they is like, all right, first order of business. We're gonna you know, so like could he could just change it like but I think they were like sort of like feeling things out in the beginning of The new era and I think that they're a little bit more comfortable with like what what they want to do now Yeah, I Mean it just it kind of feels like a machine now Yeah, it's like a conveyor belt of contestants and seasons in the same location. And, you know, every once in a while, something really interesting happens that you think, oh, my God, this I'm going to remember this forever.

And then the season ends and then the next one starts and you forget it. It just feels the whole cadence of the way the seasons play out just seems so similar every season. And I get very confused with all of the advantages and the things I'm like, at some point, I'm like, okay, stop. Yeah. Like, I really, I mean, I understand, like, the original way we play the game might be a little slow. I get that. But at the same time, like there was just something nice about, you know, getting to know people on a personal level a little bit more without all these weird advantage things.

Like the shot in the dark and they might do this. And then by the time they get to tribal council, I'm like, I don't know what the hell's going on. Well, I think that the show really wants everything to be exciting in terms of like, you know, there's never going to be a vote where, okay, everybody is like, you know, six people are all voting for this one person and then there's nothing that they can do about it. And you know, going into tribal council, what's definitely going to happen. So I think that they really are very worried about you getting a boring episode. But the audience,

I think that they shouldn't worry about that as much because the audience isn't going anywhere. No, no, it's like, I remember in Australia, one, Keith says to all of us, he's like, hey, you guys, let's come up with something to argue about so we can create some drama for the camera today. Wow, what a pioneer. Thinking to myself, I'm like, trust me, there's gonna be plenty of drama without starting anything. Like that's what I was thinking,

because I just remember that, like there's always somebody who's trying to create something that's not organic. And that was the biggest mistake in the beginning. Things of reality TV is the producers felt like they had to really manipulate things to create situations where, you know, I think over time they learned like organically, just human beings being human beings, they're in a closed environment. You're going to get things naturally that are way more interesting than something

contrived. But I do think that part of the 26 day formula is that they want to keep everybody so busy so that there's never like a day of just downtime where nothing's happening. So I think that they feel like that they're going to program it, not necessarily make it contrived, but they're going to like program it. So no matter what, like that there's going to be somebody's trying to open a puzzle while somebody else is like, you know, working on this so that the 90 minutes is always going to have like something that they can go to,

even if there's no conflict happening. Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. I mean, I will say, I'm sure you remember the way that we had every three days an episode and there was only one day where nothing happened. Those days were like being tortured. Yeah. which I think was also part of the experience. Yeah, that we can they would never let you know if that was the day that you're not doing anything. So all day long you're like on edge like are they going to pull us into a challenge or I kind of I think that just the

mental games of that led into something that was also very interesting. That's just not there. And that's, you know, social game is such a big deal. And people would just get voted out more because you just couldn't stand the person as opposed to, you know, okay, everything was necessarily like a strategic move. But it's like you wake up when the sun comes up and it's like, okay, I guess we're all just going to stare at each other for the entire day today. Yeah, you're not allowed to walk away without somebody following. Yeah. Jerry, besides the survivor, what else do you look at? What do I like? What do I watch?

Oh, I feel like if I have to guess, I feel like you're not watching a lot of reality TV. Not a lot. Yes. No, but I am thoroughly and absolutely 100% addicted to all of the below deck franchises. Oh, okay. I used to be a chef on yachts.

Yes. And I will say this, that show is 1000% accurate to what it's like to work on a yacht. Yeah. I love all of them. 100%. Like I look forward to actually watching though. Yes. But other than that, no, mostly movies and I can't wait for the hands tail. Oh, okay. What is it like the final season? No, mostly movies and I can't wait for the hands tale. Oh, OK. What is it like the final season? It is. Yeah, that is it. I recommend everyone go back and rewatch that from episode one.

That's a. Yeah, great show. Yeah. Which below deck do you like? All of all. Yeah, seriously, all of them. And there's so many now. If you've never seen any, boy, oh boy, you might as well just park yourself in your chair for a good month. Now what about the White Lotus? Did you watch that?

I love White Lotus. Yes. Yes. Well, that's what I was thinking when you were talking about the tsunami. I'm sorry. I'm sure it was very sad, but that's all I could think of. Oh yeah. I love that show. And I would, I would love to meet Mike White. I would love to get on the white Lotus. In my, in my perfect dream world, somebody out there is going to

watch this and go, Oh my God, I didn't realize Jerry was still into the whole acting thing. Let's get her on X, Y, and Z. That would be my dream come true. For the White Lotus or your own thing? Yeah, sure, but I mean, it's my passion and I've moved away from LA. I just, I had enough. I needed a break.

And I'm living a very quiet life in a barn in a vineyard right now. But I'm getting antsy. Okay. Are you still doing any, I'm trying to think of what the right verb is, that work is a personal chef? Yes, I am still a private chef. Yeah. Cook, is it, would you say cooking, chefing? What would you say? Chefing. Sure. Chef. Yeah. Yeah. And I also produce events. One of the biggest ones I produce a camp at Burning Man. Yes. Yes. I was burning in this year. Oh my God. This last year was magic. It was the best weather I think I've ever seen. Yeah. You didn't get stuck in the mud, right? No, I was there. Okay. It sucked. It was the

worst. It, it triggered me. It reminded me of the all stars. Mix in like, you know, the BLM with guns. Oh my God. Yeah, it was like the apocalypse. Just the panic in the air. It was really frightening. And I don't think that those stories really made it out. Yeah. But I've been going through 23 years

and I can honestly say I still I still love it Yeah, and it's still going is it getting bigger like each year or is it like Was there a peak of Burning Man? I think it's hit its peak. Yeah, and I think that rain year. So last year a whole bunch of people didn't go Thousands of people didn't go like maybe ten to fifteen thousand people But isn't that so isn't that good like sort of like keep the riff-raff out there like the casuals Yeah, I mean it that that rain should scare the crap out of you. It could happen at any time and if you're not

prepared for it it It was horrible. But I had, I had tarped my entire camp. So we were standing on tarps the whole time instead of. Okay. Look better than the Rupert shelter. Oh God. Yeah.

Yeah. So I still keep myself very busy with things that I really enjoy. And, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do when I grow up. I'm still trying to figure it out. Yeah. From early morning workouts that need a boost to late night drives that need vibes, a good playlist can help you make the most out of your everyday. And when it comes to everyday spending, you can count on the PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard to help you earn the most PC optimum points everywhere you shop. With the best playlists, you never miss a good song.

With this card, you never miss out on getting the most points on everyday purchases. The PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard, the card for living unlimited. Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. So just to go back to Survivor 48, do you have a winner pick? Ooh. Kyle or Camille? Okay.

Has there been anybody in the new era that's really like resonated with you? Out of these like, these, you know the new era that's really like resonated with you out of these like these, you know, new era seasons, the 90 minute episodes? Yeah. Carla. I really love Carla. Carla?

Yeah. What was it about Carla? She was a very strategic social player and at some point her narrative switched and she got villainized and I didn't understand why. And I reached out to her actually and I said, Hey, I see what's going on in the edit. If you need to talk, please reach out. And we ended up meeting each other in person and I gave her a big hug, but I just thought she was really great.

She'd be great to see on season 50. And I picked Kenzie as the winner on episode one. I knew it. I was like, Kenzie is gonna get this. I really liked it. You saw something in her. Yeah. What did you see?

Just her ability to be likable but also be strategic. Like, Kim Spradlin was another one that was very similar. Like, just everyone really liked her and she killed it. You know, it makes me really sad that there's not more women that are remembered from years past. In fact, it kind of breaks my heart that that's the case, that all these men have all been pushed to be like the face of Survivor. I think it's done a great discredit to a lot of women in the franchise that deserve way more attention than the Ruperts or the

Boston Robs. Yeah. There are just some women out there that keep getting overmars. Who should people put more respect on their name? 100% Kim Spradlin. I think she's one of the greatest players of all time. There's not a single person who has anything bad to say about her. And she's been very quiet about her success with that. And I've always loved her. And you know, as much as my rivalry with Parvati has been, you know, on the forefront

of the heroes and villains season, you know, her calling me a bitter old cougar and me saying I'm a punk. But that was in the beginning. Yeah. I respect the fact that she's dangerous. She's a dangerous player. I think she's kind of evolved now into something a little more devious and less interesting. Like I watched her on Deal or No Deal Island. And I was very upset with her over what she said to manipulate the one guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Did you like that Deal or No Deal Island? I did actually. Yeah. I watched it just because someone asked me if I wanted to be on it. So I was like, I don't know. I got to watch it first. I'll tell you what, the math of the whole thing gets me so like... No, you could follow it.

You could follow it. It's fine. Okay, let me ask you, besides us, who else should be on Survivor 50? Um, oh man. Oh, Rocky! That's my dog. Yeah, what kind of dog? Hang on a second. Come here. Oh, no, she's going to run away from me. Never mind. I got a little dog. Yeah, she's a Shih Tzu. She's

the cutest thing I've ever seen in my whole life. She's my love. I love her so much. It literally hurts. Season 50. I mean, there's so many old school players that I would love to see Lex. Yeah. Oh my God. Well, you know, you old school players that I would love to see Lex. Yeah. Oh, my God. Well, you know, you talked about me that I didn't, but I feel like that Lex was somebody who, like, he never got to, like, have that third time where, you know, and especially he had such a story that I think that really would have been interesting to see

what, like, a Lex 3.0 would have been. How did that experience with Rob change him as a player? Yeah. And as a person, because I know that whole situation really affected his life. And yeah, I still keep in touch with him. Sometimes we go down the road of memories of memory lane. sometimes we go down the road of memories of memory lane. Yeah. But yeah, he's definitely one. Cause you were so involved in that part of the story also. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know if he had kept me instead of getting rid of Amber that time, it would have been me, Big Tom and Lex in the final three, 1, 1000%. Like I had it wrapped.

So depressing. Yeah. But hey, I got to spend three weeks with Ethan and Kobe and Salgarita. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot, I guess there's a lot of people I'd have to sit down and like really go through the list. But yeah. Okay. This is a hard question. And you can pass on this.

Okay. Is there anybody that you're saying to yourself, I hope they don't bring that person back? Well, Russell, but I know they won't because he's a legal liability. Yeah. Loose panning. Yeah, he's not right. And I think they know that. I think, like I said, that era is gone. They don't want people who are mean, like outside of the realm of the game. Like there's the game, there's strategy, and then there's people who just attack people for personally for no reason. When I see that I get so turned off. I just can't...

I can't watch. Alright, so people who are looking to cast their TV shows and movies. They're gonna get a hold of Jerry. What else are you up to that people could check out? I mean, you can always go to my Instagram. It's been very political lately. So you're not looking for that.

Don't go there because I speak my mind. Yeah, don't go there. Very passionate. Yeah. That's pretty much where I keep things updated is on Instagram. I am very interested in Substack right now. Oh, do you write a newsletter? No, I just found it. Are you reading on Substack?

Yeah, it's a really interesting format. I had a podcast for a while. Oh, yeah, yeah, I did. And I really enjoyed it and I stopped doing it for some personal reasons. But I now I'm able to get back into it. What kind of podcasting were you doing? It was basically like blogging in a podcast where I just sit down. Like if things happen to me that are that really affect me or move me, I would just sit down and personal and record a podcast.

Yeah, very personal. And you share that? Yeah. Yeah. If you go on Spotify or Apple, whatever, you can see some of my old ones. I have some old Spotify or Apple, whatever, you can see some of my old ones. I have some old stories or like, um, yeah, it's just me chatting. I tried having a guest once, but this is all very technical. I would love a little bit, a little bit. I bet, you know, you have like a million great,

uh, Hollywood stories also. I have so many good stories. Actually, one of my podcasts is about the night I met Ben Affleck. Yes. It's a good story. Yes. I just feel like you must have so many good stories. I remember being like a young person driving in my car and hearing you calling in on Howard Stern, talking to a different famous person about relationships. Oh, and Loveline. I did Loveline a couple of times.

I feel like you knew everybody. I did back then. It was very different. I think I did every talk show and radio show known to man during that time period. Yeah. I got to meet a lot of really interesting celebrity types and you know I'm not, I also chefed for quite a few. Yeah. But I think the reason why I so easily fit into that world is because I don't look at them like, I look at them like human beings who got really lucky.

Yeah, they got somehow they met the right person who believed in them and then their careers flourished. And so we're all just one step away from that really is just meeting someone who believes in us. And, you know. Yeah. It's just like that Heroes vs. Villains immunity necklace that was right there. We're all that close. I still have nightmares about that stupid challenge. I swear to God, I think about that. I didn't mean to bring it up.

Yeah. I could really use a million dollars right now. Yeah. Well, Jerry, is there anything else that's on your mind? I feel like that I hesitate to wrap this up because it's such a privilege to get to talk to you. Oh, Rob, I feel the same exact way about you. Yeah. Thank you so much.

We, there's not many people from that era of survivor that I really keep in touch with, um, and, or have like super fond memories of, or levels of respect, like I do for you, and I'm so happy that you're doing this and you're successful at it. Like it's so awesome. Thank you. It made me so happy when I was in Boston and we posted like a video of like the RHAP meetup that we had and you commented that hey where's my invite anytime. Okay. you would be mobbed beyond belief no, I would love to do that with you Okay, let me know when all right. Yeah, you that that wouldn't be too much of like all of like the fans We're all like in like a gathering around trying to selfie you into oblivion

No, okay, no, I love it. I think I mean, I appreciate that people still remember me and I get a lot of very supportive comments on my social media platform. And it's really nice after everything I went through that was so negative, like this, to have it come full circle is just really, it's nice. I think that the interesting thing is that like, when it first happened, it was like, okay, the show was on and then it was over. And then unless somebody had like a VHS tape, it was gone.

There was no way you could go watch, like after Survivor, the Australian Outback was over. You couldn't go watch it a month later. Like that was it. Forget it. You know, you could read about it without yet. We didn't have to go. They didn't have a DVD or or anything.

But now, like the way that like like it's all with streaming, like there's a little bit of like immortality about it of that, you know, for, you know, there's somebody somewhere who's watching Heroes versus Villains for the first time today. Yeah, I know it's crazy. Like I meet young kids that are like, oh my gosh, I finally saw season two and I

wasn't even born yet. I'm like, okay, great. But it's also, they watch it and they're like, I don't understand why you were so villainized because I had a lot to do with the era of time that it aired. Yeah. I think also, and maybe this is also lost on the younger audience,

but I feel like that there was so much like of the, like the media at the time also was talking about, oh, Jerry, the evil Jerry, even like beyond like what's on the screen, if you're just watching the season. Yeah, I mean, that was back in the Taiwan, Rocky. Yeah, the tabloids. That talk is scary, but when tabloids

were the social media, that's what was going on. Like I would find out every week looking at the grocery store shelf, what the media was saying that week about me. Like apparently I broke up Jeff Proats marriage. Oh my God. I didn't even know that. Yeah. And I had boyfriends like selling stories about me to the tabloids for like 200 bucks. Like it was just a weird... 200 bucks? Yeah, they didn't pay back. Yeah.

I don't think it's, I think it's free now. Yeah, get some self-respect guys. Hold on a second. We're going to see Rocky one way or the other. I know. Hold on a second. Rocky, come here. This has been a very fun interview with Jerry. Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast.

We love to read your comments. Steven Frischbach and I will be back together, Wednesday night for Survivor Know-It-Alls. And here's Rocky. There's Rocky who's very upset with me right now. Why? Because you're, it doesn't like that you're on a podcast. I don't know. I think she thinks it's dinner time. Okay. All right. Well, I'll let you go feed Rocky. Isn't she adorable? A very adorable dog. Why Rocky? I don't know. Honestly, it was like, I think it was Roxy at one point. And then I knew someone who had a Roxy and that dog was a pain in the ass.

And then just kind of it kind of morphed into Rocky with an eye. OK, she's a girl. What are you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK, cool. And, you know, you still have, you know, the same amazing laugh, Jerry. Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's exactly the same. Yeah. All right. Well, Jerry, thank you so much for making the time. This was such a delight. I think the listeners are going to really love it too. Appreciate you all checking out my conversation with Jerry. Take care. Everybody have a good one. Bye.