RHAP: We Know Survivor - Jet Lag’s Adam Chase on The Survivor 48 B&B Ep 7

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

This week, Mike and Liana are joined by Adam Chase for Episode 7!

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Join for free at rakuten.ca or download the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N, rakuten.ca. Mike and Leona, yeah, they're playing some games. You better pray to your mama that they're not super lame. And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name It's the R-H-A-P-B-A-B Mike and Leona gotta playin' some games Better pray to your mama that they're not super lame

And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name It's the R-H-A-P-M-A for free Hi everybody and welcome to the RHAP B&B for week 7, week several of Survivor 48. My name is Mike Bloom, here to make, as I do every week, a bunch of mouth sounds, but none of them as mellifluous as what was coming out of Shawkeen's mouth on the bench. As we are here talking about double tribal double trouble as the jury begins and maybe just maybe Liana Boris, we are finally firmly solidifying the next phase of the game.

Oh, my gosh, I know. Right. It's like we got teased last week. Then they got split up into two groups again, despite it being the merge. But now we're in two groups. Now I finally feel like, okay, we've laid the groundwork for the second half of the game. And even though the boots were a little bit predictable this week,

I felt like we still have a lot to talk about. And this episode was really fun and really funny. I mean, even just the immunity challenge in and of itself was hilarious. So I think this is gonna be a really good time. Yes, much like a baby queen on RuPaul's Drag Race, the boots were predictable. It got brought out on every one way. But regardless, we've got a lot of designs to talk about.

And here's a guy who's noticed his way around design, a big game design that. Well, he did a transition. There we go. Travis and I are professional trying to dress for the best for a pro sitting in front of us. So excited to welcome to the BNB, the one the only frog at jet lag. The game, Adam Chase. It's me, Adam Chase. I'm from jet lag, the game.

I have a question for you, too. Please. Is there a reason why? And I believe the audience can see this. Why in the little names, your Mike Bloom full name and you are Liana with just one name. Is this intentional? Is there a reason behind it? Your witness protection has been outed.

Oh, no. No, I'm actually going for like a share energy, just like a one day kind of thing. So I'm just working on the branding for that, hoping one day it'll stay. And I'm the exact opposite. I'm very much a two name type of person, that monosyllabic approach to me. So, yeah, we're taking the exact opposite approaches arriving at the same occasion, much like the two boots that we had this week. Yes, yes, no.

And I think that I think that it is fair to say that you have the vibe of a guy who would be called by his first and last name. Thank you. Or how dare you? I don't know how to respond to that. But Adam, we even need to get beyond Survivor 40. Let's drop the four, drop the eight here, because I want to hear your origin story when it comes to

Survivor period. What and when brought you onto the very program that we're talking about today? Okay, yes. Well, let me tell you. My friend, Ian Johnson, who I believe is a listener of Rob has a podcast in fact, big Survivor fan, has been talking to me about Survivor for quite a while.

He sort of ultimately convinced me with season what are we on 48 right now? Okay, so season 47, season 47 was the first season that I watched live. Since since this occurred, I've watched many seasons of Survivor. But I was convinced by him that I should give Survivor a go. Because historically, I have not really been a huge reality TV viewer. I had seen Big Brother before and it had not as much been my thing. Apologies to Taron. But I immediately, I was very compelled by Survivor and I sort of, I very quickly understood what was compelling about the show. And since then I have watched, I think I've probably watched like six or seven seasons now, I've found that Survivor is kind of undefeated on the metric of things that are good to watch on a long plane ride. Because it's just like, you know, it's so, so bingeable. It's maybe the most, it's so bingeable, but it's also very light. And I think

that that's sort of the combination of two things that you want for a long plane ride. There are things that are bingeable that are intense and it's like, I don't need all of that on the plane. But Survivor is just like, you know what it's like? And this is a metaphor that I've actually just now decided that I'm going to use. But I actually think that you're going to think this is really great. Survivor. I guess a Warren. So Warren Buffett.

Now, I thought that was always the best start to a metaphor. Let me get there. Let me get there. It's going to be really good. Warren Buffett has this thing about Coca-Cola. Have you heard him say this? Have you heard Mr. Buffett? I've heard about it. They'll remind me.

Mr. Warren Buffett, who we're all familiar with, of course, and who we all know personally, he he's like the thing about Coca-Cola, the reason that it's so great is that when you have a sip of it, you can have the next sip and you're not impeded by the sip you had before. He says it has no taste memory. He's like, many things are delicious or good, but if you have some of it, you don't want to have too much.

Like chocolate, it's like if you eat chocolate, your second bite of chocolate, your third, your fourth, your fifth bite, you start being like, I've had a lot of chocolate and my mouth is feeling very chocolatey. Right. But Coca Cola is like, you have a sip of Coca Cola and then your next sip of Coca Cola to your mouth. It's like, it's like your first dang sip of Coca Cola. Um. And sort of to this end, Survivor to me is very similar, where you don't get tired, I feel like, of watching it. You're just like, you watch the second episode and the third episode and the fourth episode on the plane or wherever you are, but it's especially good for planes. And your brain is not tired by having watched

it before. You're just sort of, you can keep going with no, you don't get sick of it, I feel like. And this is the end of my wonderful metaphor. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. The Warren Buffett Coca-Cola, we started with those two things, not where I expected that to go, but I totally agree with you.

Honestly, it works a lot better still than the club condo metaphor we've carried over into this week as well. Oh, I mean, yeah, let's be real. Anything from Jeff trying to force fit is not working. Honestly, it works a lot better still than the club condo metaphor we've carried over into this week as well. Yeah, let's be real. From Jeff trying to force fit is not working, but that's so true. Right. And I think that that's why survivors had so much longevity. Forty eight freaking seasons.

That's a lot of seasons like that's wild. Yeah, I think that it is an extraordinary number of seasons. Yeah. And I think it's this idea that, you know, there's even like a macro and a micro to this Coca-Cola metaphor in that, like, of course, every season is going to, especially in the new era, have a new cast, have a new group of people, get a new taste, if you will. But then also, to your point, episode by episode, you know, there are certain narratives that will carry over.

And like, look, I think we'll certainly talk about someone that will linger on the tongues of the fandom when talking about this season in say, and that like she was definitely one of the main through lines of the first half of this season. But at the same time, I think the way that it is sort of made and especially packaged and edited is not as like bright shiny in your face as something like Big Brother where it can be a little sensory overload. There are still fun, epic, emotional, especially with this season, moments that occur. But it does, to your point, feel like every time we settle down from the vote and start

up the next one, there is a bit of a refresh. It's good to hear, again, as someone who watches it on the week to week to hear it be, you know, holding up in a very bingeable format. That's also really nice and makes sense considering so many people are like you, Adam, including people who are on these seasons of those who found survivor very late in the game, fell in love with a season, a player and have decided like, all right, I just got to crack open a six pack of these things and just, you know, guzzle as much as I can. Like, all right, I just got to crack open a six pack of these things and just,

you know, guzzle as much as I can. I think the other thing about survivor that makes it, you know, you mentioned the 48 seasons of it all, which I think about often as a person who makes a reality TV show and has often asked how much juice you think, do you think that your thing has? And I'll always be like, well, I don't know. Survivor has 48 seasons. But one thing that I will say about Survivor, this is one of the reasons that as a game designer, I love Survivor because it's so beautifully designed.

Is the fact that it is truly unsolvable. Like that it, there's like a, I mean, as I'm sure you know, right? There's kind of a beautifully cyclical nature to all of the decision making that makes it impossible to ever solve it. Because the paradox of Survivor, I think, I sometimes find it frustrating, but I think that it's the reason it keeps working, which is that if you start being too good at Survivor, you become bad at Survivor. And I have always found that this is so interesting.

I think it's why this show never gets stale is because you can't it can't be solved how to win it. Because as soon as you start doing too well, you by the nature of you doing too well, start to do bad. And so then everyone's understanding of what it means to do well updates, right? And then if you start doing well, by the definition of what we've now decided it means to do well, then you start doing poorly again. So like the key to Survivor is that you can never be playing optimally because if you play optimally, you are not playing optimally anymore because everybody will now see you

as a threat and they'll vote you out. And so this crazy balancing act of how to play. In a way that is at least not explicitly optimal to therefore play optimally, but everyone's priors as to what that means are being updated and, and adjusted and, and recalibrated every season. It means that it can't it can't ever. You know what I mean? I can't ever. Yes. He solves. And I think that is why it it endures.

So, I mean, I 100 percent agree with you, especially the cyclical nature. We see that even playing out this season where and again, no offense to the new era winners. I love them all to death. But we see almost the ramifications of that in some of David's confessionals when he's like, we're not letting these nerds win anymore. You know, the big boys are coming back. Whereas there was a time where the big strong people, those were the more predominant winners. So we see this really cyclical nature occur throughout, even from season to season, but from era to era, like as new fans come

in, they bring their own perspectives. And then of course, the cast that you're set with also dictates the style of gameplay. So this cast, and we've talked about this in the preseason, you know, Mike and I both felt this is a very old school cast. They're coming in with a different mentality than some of these other new school casts. And that is absolutely going to dictate who will do well, how the gameplay will go, and the boot order. And I think we see are seeing the consequences of that play out throughout this season. So, yeah, Adam, I'm totally on board with that, that it's ever changing. And that's what always makes it so fascinating and why the show, I think, has had so much longevity.

I completely agree, because not only does that allow you to glom onto different personalities, but it does at its best try to create this mentality that anybody can win Survivor. Right. And, you know, the unfortunate thing is that as Jeff kind of espoused on what the forty six opening match that I think like some of you right now cannot win the game just maybe from a demographic perspective, personality perspective, try perspective, et cetera. But it should be this idea. And I've seen this, you know, discourse all the time of like, oh, if so and so was on this season without this type of cast, how do we think they would do? And so I know it's a metaphor that has been used many times,

including by Jeff himself, but it is about sort of creating this society. And much like we have held 50 different states in the United States with 50 different types of laws and, you know, rules as to how they want to operate. Such is the case with Survivor. And so Mike, you've always been a big fan of that. You think the state should have more ability to make their own. I honestly think states rights above all. Thank you so much.

I'm glad somebody's finally saying the quiet part out loud. We finally have a common goal in mind here. But I do think that it's this idea that these people, and again, I can understand, especially after this week, there's certainly a lot of discourse that's been going on online about the way people feel this season is going and maybe some of the frustration with trying to bank honor and integrity on a game that maybe implies, slash sometimes requires a certain amount of deceit. Hell, Chrissy, in a moment that while maybe stinking her game was very, you know, nice

to have said out loud, talks about it at tribal council of like, yeah, you know what, playing with honesty and loyalty and going to the end with one alliance is great for the people that are probably going to win in that scenario. Not great for me. And so I always find it incredibly intriguing. That was that was I. Oh, my gosh. That was one of the wildest.

Like, I don't know. I mean, I. I guess I can see justifications, but I was just like, Chrissy, girl, why are you saying this? What is happening? Like, what? What? Why would you go off at tribal about how you're going to later on backstab people

when you're not even doing it, when you're on the season where seemingly the emergent majority alliance is at least very publicly being like our whole deal. If the, if the seeming emerging majority alliance for the season is like our season's whole deal is we don't lie this time and you are in a position where you're not even lying this time and you're just like later, guys, I am going to lie. Heads up. Like my favorite reaction to that was star who was like

going absolutely wild at tribal and was like, so what you're saying is not now, but later, I'm going to lie. Oh, oh, my'm going to lie. Oh, my gosh. Trace. I know it's great because this is because Chrissy has been like relatively a nondescript character, especially compared to the people around her. The only real thing we knew besides this was like she and say did not get along and say called her a psychopath for asking her

not to eat kiwi immediately after setting out a challenge. And so now she's like, I want everyone to know who I am. Listen, I will say that I had some level of appreciation for that, because I'll say and and look, if if Rachel Maddow and MSNBC want to get me canceled for this, if the failing New York Times wants to cancel me for this, then then they can do it. I feel like historically the middle-aged white lady on Survivor has kind of been a flop with some consistency. I suppose the exception to this is that, but I feel like I've seen so many seasons, you know, where you have like the middle aged white

lady on Survivor because they're always this one. And they are all they are so often just like a kind of non descript, never really make a move player, they sometimes end up going far because nobody sees them as a threat or they're kind of like a goat, you know, like, I feel like we have seen this time and time again. And I at least appreciated that Chrissy seemed to be like, if I as like, you know, a person who is not that good at the challenges who is like, you know, not at you know, not as strong as some of these other people, if I want to win, I need to have a strong resume. I was like, well, you know, it's, it's,

if we look at our most recent sort of middle aged white lady flop Sue, then like, Sue never seems to acknowledge that she needed a resume in order to try to win Survivor. She just kind of hung out long enough that she got to the end. So I at least appreciated that Chrissy, like, was self like she understood that she needed that. I was just like, you should say that. I was like, Chrissy, this would be a great thing to say in a confessional. This is sort of not as strong of a thing to say. Um, this is sort of not a strong thing to say at tribal in front of everybody.

Yeah, there's, there's confessional energy and there's tribal energy. And she sort of decides maybe she's like, I'm not getting enough confessional, so I need to do confessional in the moment. And so then it leads to this this very wild thing being said. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I mean, I think Chrissy obviously is an interesting one because she's not in the majority alliance. She's clearly trying to do something to stand out or make some kind of point, but I just didn't really seem to be hitting.

And I think especially when there are some consensus targets that seemingly are going to go out this episode, like, do you really want to paint the target on your back for the next couple of Tribals where this majority alliance, maybe potentially, I don't know, the next time on was very chaotic, may or may not stick together. So maybe Chrissy will be okay because David seemingly has lost it. He's out of milk. He's gone crazy. He needs his milk. He that guy needs his milk. So yeah, you know, I am very worried about. I mean, I will say that in fairness, that majority alliance seems like one of the weaker alliances I've ever seen.

So that's the thing that it's that it's for real. But and listen, it might be famous last words, Leona, when you and I like come back in a month and it's like, oh, these five are the final five. But like, look back to Survivor 46 when there's like, all right, all the strong people are getting together. We're calling ourselves the six. And it is for my money, one of the worst performing alliances in recent memory. Like, I think because so many of these people are still going off of first

impressions and vibes, they might agree to it on the surface. But I think by and large, when push comes to shove, you know, even you have Kyle and Camilla possibly going for Shaheen at this time, throwing him under the bus despite not going for him. That like it's a one matter of when not if. No, I think that like maybe Joe, David, Eva will not necessarily be the ones to make a move against the alliance, but Kyle and Shaheen are. Yeah, I like.

Well, yeah, I did. I did think that it was a little bit funny that Shaheen was like, you know what, like this time I just gotta sort of trust the people that I put trust in and hope that, you know, my trust is well-placed and all that. And then it was like, he did make it through, but it was like, he's like listing like, I put my trust in Kyle, and I just got a hope and then you like you cut

to Kyle and Kyle's like, I am trying to get out Shaheen. And he wasn't able to pull it off. But it was I don't know, I was like, I don't know, I don't think that Shaheen made it through because Shaheen sort of sat firm in his trust. He seems to have made it through because Kyle failed in his plan. Oh my God. The other key thing about this too is, okay, look, I get it. It's an edited show. So maybe these were just the few moments that we were shown at tribal council, but Shaheen

looked nervous AF. Oh no, he was very. As he should, like he's like, this is the time when like when there's only six people and none of my allies are with me. This is a very easy opportunity to take me out. Oh, 100 percent. Look, I totally get it from an internal perspective. But if you're trying to outwardly signal like, no, man, we're in this together.

I trust you. I'm never going to backstab you. You should you cannot show that nervousness you. You cannot show that nervousness because if you show that nervousness, then your trie-mates are gonna pick up on that and be like, why is he so nervous? Why doesn't he trust us? And then it just continues to create that rift. Now that rift might already have been there anyway,

but I'm just saying that I don't think Shaheen did himself any favors by looking like profusely sweating and nervous at the time of getting off. Giving our friend Shaheen the benefit of the doubt. Do we think that maybe he was putting on nervousness because he was the decoy vote for Cedric? That's what I'm hoping for, right? That they had kind of discussed it and Shaheen will be like, yeah, no, don't worry.

I'll be super nervous. So Cedric doesn't play a shot in the dark, whatever. So I think that there's an outside chance of that. That's what I'm hoping for, for his sake. Yeah. I'm here for Bet Rivers Online Casino and Sportsbook with poker icon Phil Hellmuth. Thanks to Bet Rivers, I'm also a slots icon. Great. And the same game parlay icon. Cool. Cool. A blackjack icon, a money line icon, a roulette icon.

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I want to talk about the twist that gets brought into this episode. And like, I don't know at what point we call it a twist, as much as we call this like a humble trait of the new era, in a manner of speaking, and that like it's kind of just a part of it. The biology now, which is this double tribal council split twist, what have you. Now, look, besides the demographics being incredibly horrific from an optic perspective of yet again, two more black contestants get voted out, you know, I feel like through the history

of this twist in the new era, we have seen a mixed bag of like sometimes, you know, they'll gun for these big players, sort of like what Shaheen was worried about. OK, we're using the numbers right now. Sometimes it is what we see in this episode of like, yeah, just picking off two outsiders because it's the easy thing to do. I want to get your thoughts, Adam, about from a game design perspective, the choice to do this, because, you know, I think it's a

double elimination is probably something they have to do, just given the episode order, the day count, et cetera. What do you think about them sticking with this choice, considering the mixed bag of results we've gotten? What what is a merge, folks? What does it mean to merge? Because I sure like to know the answer to that question here. Here's the thing. I, I, I, I am fine. I'm fine. I look, I'm a chill, cool guy.

I can roll with changes. I think that it's fine to add a little bit of surprise and intrigue to the way that votes happen. But here is what I will say to you here on this podcast. When we see everybody get that note on their beach, it says drop your buffs and go. You're going to another beach, right? And everybody cheers and they dance

and they're so excited, right? Why are they so excited? Here, do you want to know something interesting? No, they were not super excited in season one of Survivor when this happened. I doubt that they were, you know, I, the reason that they're excited is that they know from the history of all being Survivor fans

that the merge means that you have made it to a certain point in the game. And traditionally, I'm pretty sure that they're excited because it traditionally means that you are going it to a certain point in the game. And traditionally, I'm pretty sure that they're excited because it traditionally means that you are going to make the jury. Because I think that the big goal for a lot of players is that you want to be on the jury. And so I'm like, if you keep doing this thing

where being making the merge doesn't mean that you have made the jury and it doesn't even necessarily mean that you have made the jury. And it doesn't even necessarily mean that you've really made the merge because you're gonna merge for a day and then you're gonna unmerge and then you're gonna merge again. I'm like, I don't know.

It feels a little bit to me like it's like, if you dilute what it means to make the merge too far, if you dilute what it means to make the merge too far, then the meaning of making the merge is lessened. And I don't necessarily think that that's good because again, it makes it so much less of an awesome moment when everybody makes the merge. I don't think people are going to be as excited. I don't know that people are going to be as excited in the future when they get the notice that the merge is happening. Cause it's like, well, what does that even mean? I guess it means we're all on one beach now, but like if I'm not making the jury and we

might unmerge then like who cares? Yeah. And I think that this twist also kind of folds back into the decisions that you make at this merge, not merge stage at 13 as well. Like we've talked so many times about how, especially in modern day seasons, the merge, mergeatory boot, what have you, 13th placer, the charity type is a very easy consensus choice for everybody because nobody wants to make a move because you know the next episode things are going to split anyway. So like, why put your neck out on the line knowing that the next day a random draw might

screw you over immediately. So it makes people try to just go for the lowest common denominator, go for the safest choice because they don't know what group they're going to be swapped into the next day. Well, I sometimes I feel about Survivor the same way. Have you seen on College Humor a long time ago, they used to Brandon Lee Mulligan used to do those

message from a CEO videos and he did one as the CEO of Oreos. Have you seen the one where he was the CEO of Oreos? I think so. I'm going to butcher it. But basically, case of Oreos. Yeah, I'm going to butcher it. But basically, case of Oreos. Yeah, I'm going to butcher it.

But basically what he says is he's like, stop making new flavors. I understand. He's like, I understand. It feels crazy. We invented the perfect cookie a hundred years ago. We don't need to do anything else. It's done. We did it everybody.

We can stop. And sometimes that's how I feel about Survivor where I'm like, you designed a perfect game 25 years ago. You don't need to like, I don't know. And again, I understand that they needed to be, but I'm like, you can imagine, I imagined in my head, like, you know, the producers of Survivor are like, wouldn't it be interesting if we took the people on Survivor and we separated them into two tribes and then they were in a competition with each other. And then, you know, like the tribe that does better gets like an advantage in the way that eliminations happen. It's like, yeah, that's the first

half of Survivor. We already did that for the last several weeks. Now we're done doing that. And it's time for everyone to be in the same tribe. What you've invented is what we were just doing before. Yeah, I like the I like the idea that the Mergetori is the Swedish fish Oreo cookie of Survivor. Right. Like, why does this exist? This does not need to exist. So, yeah, I mean, I think overall, the general consensus is like, who likes this?

Who likes like genuinely who likes this? Because as far as I know, no one is a big fan. Yeah, I mean, it's the it's the Dr. Ian Malcolm quote. You were thinking too much about whether you could that you didn't think so much about whether you should. And for me, you know, it's it's a if we have to do this, I honestly think I would rather see it like they did in forty one, forty two and

forty three at the final ten, just because I don't want to immediately split up. And I I know that jury may not mean a big deal to some fans, but I just hate, hate, hate. And especially given the person that we end up losing here, the fact that someone does not make the jury because somebody in their randomly assigned group did not perform as well as someone from the other randomly assigned group. Yeah. Well, that was the other thing is I also agree with you, Mike. I think that if you let the tribes merge and you give them some real time so that the dynamics have really changed and it's like, now we're going to

split you up again, it's like that's much more interesting than like, they're not really merged. They haven't, there's not been, you know, they they've been merged for like three days. Like, it's not that interesting to undo something that you just did. It's like if you want that to have, you know, I don't know, this is like storytelling 101, right? It's like you there has to be weight and stakes to the things that you do. Right. And so I think I think you you you they didn't give it time.

This is my take. I think the other reason why I particularly don't like it in this season is because we've had this say Cedric relationship go on throughout the course of this season. We've seen them in all these different situations. And even most recently with, say, casting a rogue vote for Cedric last week, where she specifically alters her penmanship and writes in cursive to vote out Cedric.

What an amazing moment. And then it was so sad that both of them in the schools for these kids. So they too can learn from say and, you know, go petty while also disguising their intentions. And the duality of Cedric being like, oh, you know, I had never seen that handwriting before. Maybe it wasn't her. And then saving like I did that on purpose, just all of that was so beautiful. But then for both of them to go home in the same episode is very poetic.

But to be in separate sides and then for also knowing one will make sure in what one won't is just I don't know. It was like it's like extra sad to me to have that happen. I do realize in retrospect, it does feel like a lesson, a lesson in verb conjugation that say and said have been so intertwined in each other's games. Oh, I love that. That's so funny.

And of course, the time that they've been separated, they end up going. That's what Say told me when I interviewed her. She's like, look at the irony that I have been waiting. I've been trying to get rid of this man for the better part of a week. And the one time, this is the first time that the two of them were not on the same tribe together, they both end up going. Neither can live while the other survives. Exactly.

I, that whole thing, I mean, gosh, I have a lot of, I have a lot of thoughts on that whole thing. I, I understand why Say was mad at Cedric, and I do agree it was a super fun move for her to have written in cursive to throw him off. super fun move for her to have written in cursive to throw him off. I also was like, Cedric is kind of your only semi ally. Like, you know, like it's he's not a great ally, but I think he is the only one you have and you randomly voted for him for no, it was a really bizarre little beat. I found it very strange.

Gotta be petty. It was, I mean, I thought that it was really fun that she wrote in cursive, but I also was like, where's the strategy here? Like what? Give me the sort of cost benefit analysis of this one. You can't put a price on laws. OK. Yeah, it's so true. And I would never try to. That's that's the thing is that say is going to do

when she gets an idea in her head, like she might have information that changes it. But like remember last episode when she comes back from that Bianca boot and she immediately assumes like Cedric, you voted against me again. I saw my name on the paper. I assumed it's you. And then she had to be convinced by Cedric like,

no, this is how it actually went down. And please bitch can validate that for me. It's just, it's the personality from say that I absolutely love, which is like she gets this idea in her head and it sets up this worldview from her perspective and she decides to pursue that, perhaps forgoing some social niceties in the process. And then it's interesting to see things from the Cedric perspective of like, and you know,

I got the chance to talk with him about a lot of the decisions he made. And I think he shed a lot of great light on it where he's like, yeah, people kept saying that I should get rid of say because she's dragging me down. But like, she's the one that's most providing me information. I can't trust a lot of you because I never knew you. And he does bring up like, and for what it's worth, all these people were telling me, no, work with us. I got my loggy people. I've got my SEVA people. The second I was supposed to work with them, they got rid of me. So like, what does that say about what you were pitching me? Yeah, I mean, my read on why Cedric got out, I mean.

You you guys let me know if you disagree. My read on why he got out this episode was, I mean, in part that I think he you know. He was part of the. What was the tribe that he was part of originally that was really bad? Vula, he was he was he was original. Now, when down to one in the final 10, we have one person from that tribe left in Mary. Yeah.

You know, I think he was sort of on the outs, but my read was, I was like, because when it came down to that little mini-tribe, it was you had Kyle and Camilla kind of trying to get people on board to vote Shaheen, and then you sort of had the rest on Cedric. And it seemed like David was really going to be the decision maker on that. And my, what I said to my girlfriend as we were watching is I was like, my prediction is I was like, I know the edit wants me to think it's going to be Shaheen, but I was like, I don't buy it. And the reason I don't buy it is that the vibe I get from David, if David's whole thing is like, I want it to be the strong people. I want it to be whatever. I was like, Cedric is respectfully to Cedric, who to my understanding is a surgeon, I'm

sure is a very capable man. Was so comically bad at the challenges, kind of in a way that I've almost never seen before. That I was just like, there's no way that David is not going to vote this guy out because if David's whole philosophy seems to be that he wants strong competitors to be in the game and he has an opportunity to choose between a guy who's like a semi-ally of his who is a strong competitor and Cedric who is again, respectfully to Cedric who seems to be a very

nice man and appears to be very accomplished in his career, a truly abysmal performer in the challenges. I'm like, David's going to get Cedric out. Because it's just, it's just like David's philosophy, I think of like his value system for the game. And so my take is that like, I think that Cedric did bad. You know, he wasn't set up well with alliances. But I think that if he had even been like a respectable challenge performer, he would have been a lot more likely to have survived that. Yeah, I mean, I think to your point, the only thing that would have had David question this idea of bringing the strongest to the end is like, honestly,

if he got beat in that challenge and look what happened, he crushed them. He said, I like Captain America. I could do this all day. And so I think from his perspective, he's thinking, yeah, I'll go to the end with the strongest. It doesn't matter to me if I go to the end with threats because chances are I'm going to beat him anyway. So it doesn't matter that I might as well, you know, then feel good about the people that I'm going with. So I totally agree with you that I think if David had made this move against Shahid and, you know, Kyle and Camilla were trying to paint it as like, well, he's going to come for you eventually.

I don't think David cared at that moment, not only because of the fact that he was immune, but he feels like he can try to come for me. He's not going to get rid of me. Mm hmm. Well, and I think David also has now officially named the alliance. I don't know if he's calling it the strong five to other people, but at least in confessionals, he has called it the strong five. So I feel like once you name something, you have a little bit more care for that thing. And so I think to add to that, right?

I mean, there's still a number of other people left in the game. So even if you were to contemplate turning on the strong five, I don't think it would happen any time soon. All right. And anything else you want to say before? I'm sure we can parse out a lot of discussion through here as we start. Oh, no, I'm sorry. But because I want to get your thoughts on, say,

we're going to do our preseason predictions here. And we'll start, obviously, with say, but obviously, again, I mean, record setter. She has, I believe, the survivor record for most confessionals by a player through seven episodes of the show in the show. Yeah. And she actually ties another record where she went to six consecutive tribal councils where she received a vote that is tied for the most in survivor history with Rory from Survivor Vanuatu from season nine.

So this is someone who has made history in so many ways, despite only lasting seven episodes. What were your thoughts about Say throughout the time we got her? time we got her. My thoughts on Sey are complicated. Look, I would like to preface this by saying that, you know, I have no interest in sort of personally criticizing anyone who is on Survivor. I, you know, I don't think that that is productive or kind to these people who, you know, are, I'm sure, wonderful folks. I will say that, say, I thought rarely did herself a ton of favors in a lot of the way that she approached the game.

I think that there were times when, I think there were times when she lacked a bit of self-awareness. I thought that, you know, she got voted. Leanna, are you a Yale alum? I work there. Oh, okay. Scientor, are you a Yale alum? I were I work there. Oh, scientist. Yeah. Sorry, I went to Yale.

Go Bulldogs. Um. Anyway, um, I thought that, you know, her final confessional, her her her after Torch was snuffed when she was like, well, they voted me out because I was a threat. she was like, well, they voted me out because I was a threat.

I was like, well, I don't know that that is why they voted you out. That was not the sense that I got. You know, Say never really managed to form any alliances, right? The one alliance she kind of had, she voted for for no reason, which I thought was odd. She really misread her relationship with Mary, who she seemed to think was her ally. That was a brutal little piece of editing

where Say was like, I'm thrilled to see Mary, my very good ally, and then it cuts to Mary, and Mary is like, I'm thrilled to see Mary, my very good ally. And then it cuts to Mary and Mary is like, I would like to vote Say out, please. Yeah. And that's a little bit of what you were speaking before about, like, it kind of does feel odd that this is the thing to take Say out because we thought that this storyline with her and Mary would have seen more longevity or like more of a punctuation at the end of the sentence. But I guess in retrospect, to your point, that was the sort of end of the sentence, was it was like Mary being like,

I've got a new path for myself right now, say is still in vula mode, I'm in Mary mode. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that maybe it was Shaheen or Joe, I think it was Shaheen who, say, went and talked to this episode. And I think that he shed some light on what appears to be kind of Seh's approach, which in some ways I think there is some nobility to, which is Seh didn't seem very interested in the bullshit, right? Right. Say, I think, was very like self assured.

And she was like, I'm not interested in. Trying to kind of play nice with everybody. I'm not interested in kind of trying to smile and get along with everybody. I want to be honest with people. If I like, you know, she seemed to much, you know, the thing that she said is like, you know, I think say respects it if you go up to her and it's like, Hey, well, I voted for you, but this was why and you know, let's you know, do whatever. But I just kind of think especially new era. Well, here's another

thing, I would be very bad at survival for any number of reasons. So I also I also don't want to sort of, you know, suggest that I would do better than anyone who I'm talking about because I'm positive I would do worse. But as far as I can tell, that's just not how you play new era survivor. Like I think that say his approach was like. You know, I was kind of like, well, look, say that might be how you want to play the game, but that's not how you're going to win the game.

And I think that it was shown by the fact that like very early on, I feel like everybody talked about say is like, well, say is an easy boot say is rubbing people the wrong way. Like this was a common refrain for a while. And it was like, I don't think that she was even necessarily surviving as long as she did because she was playing particularly well. I think that people saw her often as like, well, you'll be an easy boot later on. So I'm not really super worried about you.

So I don't know. I think it was a tough game for say is kind of my opinion. I think that she did some stuff that was kind of fun, but in terms of like, did she ever do anything that I, she, she rarely did much that seems to be a particularly strong strategic survivor move. Like I'm trying, I'm trying to think of like a really strong actual move that she did other than I guess, managing to survive that tribal council where it really seemed like she'd be voted out.

And then what was his name? Just Mr. Pizza got voted out. I don't know how that happened. That was crazy. I guess that was very impressive that she managed to pull that off. But other than that, it was, I think she, it was a tough game per se.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that, I was, I think she, it was a tough game for a set. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And I think that, I don't know, Mike, about your preseason prediction, but mine will at least somewhat reflect that. I feel like she might struggle a bit in the game. Interesting, okay, tell me more. Yeah, so for me, I had, say, a pre-jury, but I did have, say, Technically true.

making the merge. So in that weird sort of spot. So here's what I wrote. And by the way, Mike, can you please clarify on this? Because I had this written and when I reread this, I wasn't a hundred percent sure on this, but I wrote that say hits the beach, like the bus that hit her.

Did she get hit by a bus? Yes, yes. Okay. Say told me when I was out there that there was that she had like was in college and she was like crossing the street and a bus like clipped her. And OK, she lived and she has gone on with that resilience of like, listen, I survived a bus. I could survive survivor. OK, because when I read that, I did not have any memory of her being hit by a bus.

So thank you for providing some context on that. Leonor, that would be such an awesome thing for you to have written as a total non sequitur. Just like makeup. Yeah, she got my gosh. I'm really actually disappointed that it is rooted in reality, because if it was just something that you wrote down apropos of nothing, that'd be so incredible. That that's our Swedish fish Oreos of this game. Leon is like we have spent years writing up these pieces of predictions of how they'll do in the game.

The next step is also write up their backgrounds as well. Just make up an entire story about who they are, much like some people do on the island where, you know, Russell Hans famously talked about losing his home in Hurricane Katrina. Who's to say that someone can't come in and be like, yeah, when I got hit by a bus. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. All the survivors about to be hit by a bus. I'm running with that driving with that, I guess.

I feel like they're running away from that bus. Yeah, exactly. OK, so to continue on, I said that, say, at 60 miles an hour gets her early target of stuff. You're really focused on this bus thing, are you? Really? I really was obsessed with the bus idea. Her early target of Stephanie out of the game at the first tribal council. But as well as game starts to spiral, so did says

she manages to survive to the fake merge or merge, but not merge thing, IDK, whatever that episode is anyway. So when we get to the fake merge, all the scattered right anyway in there. Yeah. Because again, I just don't know what to call that stupid episode. So let's just anyway, whatever. All the scattered energy from old Vula throws say off her game and she has no poker face dealing with her new tribe mates, including her own self described resting bitch face. This social friction leads to her being the group consensus boots. Her ally was question mark, question mark, question mark. And her enemy was her own facial expressions. So you basically gave her like the Rome exit, right? Of like someone

who had this sort of like stronghold in the tribe through having advantages. And then when they got to the merge, it was like, okay, well, we're all gonna get rid of you because you're not really vibing with anybody. Sorry, Liana, you wrote this before the season. Yeah. That was extraordinarily prescient.

Yeah, you should not hear my other ones. You were halfway through and I started to be like, did I misunderstand what this segment is? Are you reading a summary that you wrote of what say did? Yeah, I got this was this was much more spot on than my others. So I'm going to try to ride with that. So now you're always on the money.

Leon is always right. That's what we say here. Mm hmm. Sure. Yeah. Which makes it even worse for me because I did get to sit down this first tribal council and I saw a say and, you know, hit that ground driving like the bus, I suppose. For what it's worth, though, I did have, say, making the jury. So this will be a much more drive tail, but settle in, folks, grab some Kiwi.

Here is the story of say drafting off the energy that she brought into that first tribal council, say, is a pre merge wrecking ball. Not only does she get the most confessionals, but the security of her idol ensures nobody tries to take a shot directly at her. Say has her say at quite literally every vote on the Vula tribe. From taking out no vote Cedric, we'll talk about that in a bit, to escaping a tie vote with Mary,

to turning on Kevin. When say hits the merge, she hopes that Vula being winnowed down to a gruesome two-some will make them easy numbers to bring in, but the second attempt at a first impression does not go well as she immediately bristles with her new tribe members and becomes an early target. Se is forced to flush her idol early in the merge since the information is incredibly public. That said, she has no qualms hitting the jungle again and finding another one the very next day. Eventually, Say's perception gets uncapitalized from goat to goat. It's

incredibly tough to vocalize as she becomes an easy target to someone the Loggy Coalition wants to keep around. Someone who wouldn't get any vote from the jury. Say, naturally, gloats about how her strategic graces has had her fall into the majority. Despite being brought cuffed to be along, Say seeks to find her own voice. So in an admirable yet head-scratching move, she wakes up and chooses sauce-covered violence. She decides Justin, Mr. Pizza, is too deadly to take to the end and conspires to take him out. Unfortunately, in eliminating her number one ally, say suddenly jumps to the top of the hit list once more seen as someone who can't be trusted with end game plans. Everyone brings her tense from Pat presence to past.

As they said, she was too unreliable to move forward. That's a little little labored pun there. Say goes out with an idol in her pocket and promises in her exit press that she'll bring it as her luxury item when not if she returns. Her closest ally was Kevin, then Justin, then nobody. And her enemy was everyone. That's a lot, Mike. I listen, I had big main character energy from say that I got off of her

in that first travel council, so I think the tone that I crafted was appropriate to the amount of airtime I assumed she would get through like the seven. You were right on the airtime. Yeah, definitely. And not much right on. Much else. So yeah, pretty easily on being in the right here compared to myself. Well, let's talk about Cedric here. Let's talk about the other side of things. So I will start with Cedric here.

I had. Here's something that I'd like to say about, say, which is that you you and your summary mentioned Stephanie and I was like to say about say, which is that you, you and your summary mentioned Stephanie and I was trying to remember who Stephanie was. And so I googled say survivor because I wanted to get to her tribe and a headline popped up, which is that apparently in an interview, say said that she would have been a quote, bitter juror and not voted for anyone to win. Oh, yeah. She she talked with me about that as well in my interview that like I had asked her, you know, you were just this close

one Joe performance away of making it to the jury. How would you have voted? And she's like, honestly, I would have really given it to them. And I would have felt like if I didn't want to vote for anybody, I would have voted for Jeff, which also would have been a very interesting twist if Jeff Probst had won the season. I don't know if that would be the best or worst thing to happen to Survivor. Yeah, is that is illegal?

Can you do that? You vote for Jeff? I would frankly be shocked if the producers would let you just not vote. Has that ever happened before? No, it definitely hasn't. I feel like it would have been seen as being disrespectful to the game. I know that this is a big thing for Jeff where he is like, you can play within the lines as much as you want.

We want you to do all this stuff within the game. But anything that starts to disrespect the nature of the game and its rules, I think he takes that very seriously, is the sense that I get. And so I think if a juror refusing to vote and trying to vote for Jeff, I can see that actually being a behind the scenes production problem. I also frankly suspect that Say is not the first person 48 seasons of Survivor to not want to vote for anybody to win the million dollars. My guess is that this conversation has happened before. Oh, it has. Yes. A man by the name of Randy Bailey, famously in his jury voting confessional said all three of you can kiss my ass and it became very clear to him as well as maybe the many of the people on that season of like, I don't want to vote for any of you.

Even a recent example, you know, with no offense to the final three of Survivor 43, I feel like that attitude was a little prevalent as well. I'll be a little less like negatively charged, more so of like, I don't know if these are the three people I wanted to see in the end. But that's also a fun facet of the game that I agree. The idea that like you have to vote for somebody makes it intriguing because then it's like, OK, now what criteria are you going to weigh above others? Like the likeability popularity factor is not going to be encompassed.

Obviously, if you don't like anybody. So what are you going to vote for that gameplay? Other random things that they do, whoever you dislike the least? It is fascinating. Well, I'll also say, and you know, I don't want to get us too off topic, but this is the other, I mean, and obviously I'm not breaking new ground by saying this,

this is the other truly brilliant piece of game design behind Survivor is the fact that the eliminated people then decide who wins, adds an incredible layer to it. And my favorite, I actually will say that I actually, I really like the new era, the way that new era people seem to approach Final Tribal different than earlier seasons, because they seem much more focused on like, who played the most interesting and strategic and compelling game. They seem less interested generally than like in early seasons in like who do I like or dislike personally or like who am I mad at or not mad at personally.

Like the new era players seem to have much more interest and appreciation for like strategy in Final Tribal, which is another thing I like going back to what I mentioned at the beginning about like the cyclical unsolvable nature of Survivor, which is like if you're too good at Survivor, they will vote you off of Survivor. But then if you make it to the final three and you didn't do anything interesting and you were just bad at Survivor, you'll also lose. So like being the exact right level of clearly good at Survivor is like so interesting and fascinating and impossible. But I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about this because I recently watched Heroes versus Villains and Russell Hands didn't get any votes. And I was like, what the hell? I was like, this guy should have won.

Yeah. I mean, what I think is also interesting is I wonder how much it could be a casting. It also could be the way that the new era tribal council in particular is formatted, where it does feel like back in the days of like each person gets their opportunity to stand up and talk. It does. Well, it provides incredible moments. You know, one of them chiefly being Sue Hawks, rats and snake speech.

It does at the same time kind of create this energy for some jurors of like, it is my time to talk now and this is why you should be campaigning for my vote. Whereas with the, you know, sort of like forum discussion, right, where like everyone kind of chimes in with their individual posts and listens to other people talk, it does create more of like a communal sense of things. Now look, we have had a couple of five to three votes in the new era, but I wonder if it's coincidental that we've had so many like seven to one votes, given the fact that this format is kind of everyone working together as one blob of a jury to be like, we're going

to throw out questions to you one at a time and you're going to answer them. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly more discussion based as well, which I think helps to facilitate that like group consensus idea. But it also then allows you as a juror to hear the arguments from other people about what did the other jurors value? What are the things that they're looking at in terms of picking who is going to represent their season as the winner? Well, I kind of suspect and I mean, I could be wrong about this. I kind of suspect that much like

voting people off on Survivor, there is ultimately just bias towards consensus because, you know, once you realize once the numbers are there for someone to win, which I think you can probably suss out, then you have to ask yourself the question, do I want to have voted against the winner of this season? Do I feel strongly enough that that consensus is wrong, that I want to sort of make my voice heard through this vote? Or do I want to sort of throw my weight behind the group, be more of a team player, like. Speak with more of one voice on this, and I can see it like I think that

I imagine is part of why we see more of a consensus in votes is that like. You know, once the numbers are going one way, you just have to decide if you're going to get on or get off, but you can't change it. Well, speaking of consensus, let's talk about one of the victims of a consensus vote here, as mentioned before, in the form of Cedric. So I'll read my preseason prediction about Cedric first, because I had him going pre-jury. I said, due to his calm, mild-mannered headspace, Cedric is the most purple of the green Vula tribe. He'll mainly get content around the chaos happening around him and Esset saying,

Hold on to your butts. As the two most down-to-earth people among the air signs on Vula, Cedric and Justin click early on. I try to make crack and crust work as their alliance name, but nobody bites. Cedric is sent on the first journey of the season where he unfortunately loses his vote. His fate evidently is far from booty full. In an effort of full transparency, Cedric tells his tribe that he lost his vote. But that is music to say's ears, who's already looking to break up the tight duo of him and Justin.

So she brings together her closest ally, Kevin, an outsider, Mary, making him the butt of the tribal council joke. His closest ally was Justin and his enemy was say. Mike, was there some plot line related to Cedric and butts that I missed? Why is it? He's a colorectal surgeon. He's a buttock. He's a colorectal surgeon. Now, now everything's making. This could have been my bus where I was like, no, I just decided to's a butt doctor. He's a colorectal surgeon. And now everything's making a lot of sense. This could have been my bus where I was like, no,

I just decide to do a bunch of butt jokes about a player. Poor Cedric. No, so that's very interesting. So I had Cedric actually in a very similar position, Mike. I had Cedric as pre jury. I said, sweet baby, Cedric is just too good for this cutthroat world of survivor. And no amount of training could prepare him for the chaotic world that is Vula pre-merge. After losing his closest ally Justin to an idle play and single stray vote from Mary,

Cedric failed to regroup as the power structure shifted with Se and Mary at the center. When Vula loses their third challenge in the pre-merge, Cedric was the consensus boot due to his lack of challenge strength. His ally was Justin and his enemy was Mary and Say. All right. Now a little bit more of a game of inches for Adam here as the judge, jury and executioner. Do you have a decision as to who was more on the money about said money? I don't know.

I think that you guys were in a relatively similar spot. I would say, I think Cedric, another tough game of Survivor. I feel like we've had some of the more recent boots, your Thomases, your Biancas, I feel like in particular with Thomas, you could be like, man, you know what? Played a really good game and just got unlucky, got out by that idol. Not a lot you can do. Obviously great play by Kyle and Camilla on that, but total respect for the game that Thomas played. And sometimes that's how it goes. Cedric can say both. I was kind of like, I will say this was an episode where, and maybe this is, you know, just me as a person who plays reality competition games

and designs reality competition games, and also is just the way that I am. I want the people who I perceive to be bad at the game to lose. Like, that's my. I hear you. Survival of the fittest. Oh, my God. Jeff Jeff was like with respect to Cedric when Cedric dropped.

I feel like this is your moment of that, Adam. You're just like with respect. You play terribly. I'm happy that you're well, I mean, and I really mean it with respect. Well, I also want to again start by saying I. I we are all here Monday morning quarterbacking. Like, I think that a point that Jeff often makes is like, look, you guys like to sit, you know, you pop freaking podcasters

love to criticize the people on Survivor. But, you know, you haven't come out here and played Survivor, and it's very hard. And I believe it. Like, I'm confident I would be very bad at the game of Survivor. I feel a similar way when people criticize the decisions I make on a program called Jet Lag, the game, and I'm like, well, you know what? I was very tired when I did that. There's a reason why the show has its name. Yeah.

Um, so like, I really, you know, I don't I I'm not here, you know, that we're discussing. I think that it's often said in Survivor, people are like, well, you know, this isn't real life. This is a game. And so you have to play the game. And I want to just emphasize, I'm here analyzing a game. I'm not analyzing anyone's personal value. That being said, Cedric, I think,

was not good at the game of Survivor. I think that it's like, if you're going to be that bad at the challenges, you have to have something else going for you, which is that you either need to be a very savvy strategic player, something else going for you, which is that you either need to be a very savvy strategic player, or you need to be so loyal and not a threat at all that people will just bring you really far and then maybe you can pull some crazy jiu-jitsu at the end. And I was like, Cedric didn't do any of those things.

Like Cedric was, I mean, again, he seems to be a very kind and I'm sure a very competent man in his real life. His challenge performance was baffling to me. Like it was baffling to me in a way where I was like, to me in a way where I was like, is there something we don't know about his physicality or like, is he recovering from an injury of some sort? Or like, I just didn't understand like, because the thing was like, he appears to be like, a perfectly able bodied, not that old man.

Like it's not like I'm a teeny tiny guy made of skin and bones, but Cedric isn't even that. Like Cedric was like, you know, he had some arms to him. He had, you know, he looked good in his tank top. Like he appeared to be like a perfectly athletic looking person. I just don't understand. Like the combination of many, I mean, there was obviously the, the classic him and who was it?

Kevin, right? Uh, trying to on that challenge. Remember the balance, right? With when it was like one of the worst challenge performances we've ever seen, him trying to get up the net. Like I'm just saying there are so many people that based on sight alone, you would assume would be less athletic than Cedric. The difficulty that Cedric had getting up a net, I truly just did not understand how

it was possible. And then in the final one that he went out so quickly that even sort of, you know, I feel like Jeff, Jeff's gotten freaking soft, you know, recently as he as he's gotten older, I feel like Jeff used to be kind of a harder edge, you know, guy. I feel like now he's much sweeter, but even now for him to be like Cedric respectfully. You bet that major style, man. You did a very bad job, and I just wanted to mention that like I was just like, come on, said this is this is a tough.

This is a tough situation. I also felt so bad for him because like he would feel so bad about how bad he had done with the challenges. And I was I mean, again, it's like I didn't, you know, I wish him truly nothing but the best. He seems like a very sweet man. And it was like he was bad at them in a way where it was. Really notable.

And then also it was like. the biggest strategic decision that he made, which I would argue was voting out, keeping say and voting out his closest ally, Justin. Was shown to be very, very, very obviously a terrible decision in that the biggest decision he made was to save somebody who would go on to randomly vote for him for no reason, in cursive to trick him. It's like, this is the person that you are going to save in your most important decision that you're making. It was just like, so if you're not playing a strong physical game and you're playing a poor strategic game and also like, you know, he was part of the decision to physically weaken his tribe by voting out Kevin early on. It's like, so you're going to put your tribe in a bad position for the challenges. First of all, you're bad at the challenges.

So you are going to contribute to a lot of people on your tribe being voted out. So even though you don't get voted out in that stage, it's going to put you in a bad position later on because two, as your tribe is getting weakened, you're weakening it by voting out strong players, leading to even fewer people being there. And then three, you are going to not even put... You're going to keep yourself tied to that tribe in people's minds by sticking with a person from your tribe, say. So unlike Mary, who has managed to completely separate herself from the history of that tribe and seems to be fine, You're going to tie yourself to that tribe in a way where you're still bogged down by it. And you're going to tie yourself to for a person who is not even your ally

at all, who actually hates you in his voting for you. It's like you didn't. Sorry, I've gone on perhaps too long, but he played in my opinion, he he in my opinion, he was not very good at the game of Survivor. And I very frankly thought that he deserved to be voted out. And this is the end of what I have to say. Take that, Cedric. OK, so let's transition away from our boots and let's talk about the immunity challenge. So the game that we're gonna play today

was inspired by the immunity challenge as well as the name of the Merge tribe, which is what we discussed last week, named after milk. Which by the way, actually, before we play the game, Kyle had a few very fun moments. I just want to acknowledge one, I appreciated his shout out of P90X. That felt like I've not heard.

That's a name I haven't heard in years. I got heard that in like probably 15 years of P90X reference. Kind of obsessed. So I'm happy he brought that up. And then we also got another overexcited Kyle moment at the reward when they're talking about the fact that they got to see the record set on Survivor and Kyle goes, see, which reminded me of his like,

crazel of David living in a trailer. Oh, I literally think about the same thing. That's all my energy. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, just like way too excited about it. Can I tell you something? I the other day, apropos of nothing, remembered that and I felt it. I was upset for the next like 20, 30 minutes feeling the second hand embarrassment

of that moment for all partner for all parties. Truly one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen happen in the history of television. So for what it's worth, David brought him into the Alliance at the end of the day, he was able to make up for it. No, it wasn't that anyone had done anything wrong. It was just so just really, I mean, really one of the kind of scots tots level of cringe in that.

I think I think it was just that key example, right, of like two people coming into a topic with exact opposite energies and just the natural collision point that was going to happen. But I'm happy to know that Kyle has not given up on that resolve, but he's like, OK, we're allowed to be excited about this, right? Like, yeah, this one, this one's awesome. And I will also say, I mean, it was very fun to see an Australian survivor as battle of the big boys between these two.

But I I did see a very salient point made by Tyson and others on social media, which is like, it's cool when endurance records are broken. But technically, the records are set not by the winner, but by the person who finishes in second place. Right. Like, it's not to say that, OK, Gabler lasted the longest and now David is better than him. It's more so that like the person who gave who finished second to Gabler was worse than Joe when you kind of extrapolate all that stuff out. Yeah, right.

It's true. It's true. This is I actually hadn't really considered that. That's actually a very interesting observation. OK, well, let's see. I mean, I don't think that logic will apply. There's no records to be broken here, although I guess this is the first time we've ever played this game, so maybe maybe we will. Got a very good chance of setting the record. Exactly. OK, so shout out to Eric,

listener who suggested this game idea. So the way that this game is going to work, it's called Godmail. And I found this horrible meme of Rupert. So you're watching the video version. Can I really show that back in Survivors like I can't say even say hey, because it's still very popular, but like mass, mass, mass appeal. They actually did got milk ads with I remember the final four of Survivor Borneo, the tag, and they did one with I think the final three of Survivor,

the Australian Outback as well, for whatever reason. Like these people are so nutrition, nutritionist Lee deprived. They're going to do a milk advertisement to show how what they were not able to get out there on the island is what you need to go through the day today. Oh, yeah, I found it. Oh, sorry, I was just going to say, I want to be in. I don't know if this is a popular opinion or not, because I haven't really engaged. I haven't seen anyone comment on it, but I just want to say, for one, one that I am a number one product placement on Survivor Defender.

I think it's great. I love when they are like, you get to go to Outback Steakhouse because it's so, it's both one, so funny to me, the specificity of like, we're going to give you Outback Steakhouse here on Survivor. And two, I am like, I don't know, maybe it's because I am a reality television producer, maybe this is sort of my capitalist greed coming in, but I'm like, survivor has built arguably the greatest vessel for food product placement

that's ever been conceived. The level of excited, because the thing is, I feel like product placement is always so eye rolling, people feigning excitement about this thing that they don't like, that this thing that they don't like, that you know that they don't actually use. You have a famous person plugging something that you know, they don't actually eat or use or whatever.

But the thing is, when you tell all the people on Survivor that they get to have Applebee's, they are genuinely fucking crying about how much they want Applebee's. And I'm like, this is what product placement should be. I think it's I love it. And I mean, it is like the best example I can think of in television of any port in a storm of like it can be the lowest rung on the ladder of franchise food.

And because you have had nothing for days, you will weep like you. It's quite literally the oasis in the desert at this point. It is it is. Yeah. So the way that this game is going to work to go back to our got milk game. So again, shout out to Eric. Just want to give credit for the game idea. So the way that this game will work is I have picked a few different foreign languages.

So Adam, maybe you have a leg up on this one. But what I've done is, well, so what I'll do is I'm going to present to you three words in a foreign language. One means milk, the other two mean other random words. Okay. So what's your goal? Your goal is to pick the correct one, the

word that means milk. So we'll go back and forth. Mike, you're going to kick things off. And you are going to start with the beautiful language of Latvian. Now I want to go ahead and apologize. I speak in none of these languages. I have the phonetic pronunciation and I am going to do my best. So Mike, you're going to kick off, as I said, with Latvian. So your three words are Pians, Suns, and Maya. Maya, okay. Let me also say, I will start with my own mea culpa. I've gotten this a fair amount.

I feel like it needs to be addressed. I now acknowledge the fact that the Merge tribe name does mean milk, but in Mandarin. I know last week you were trying in vain to search for it in Fijian. It's because I assume that much like the location, every single Merced tribe name is in Fijian. This was not the case. Apparently this was Mary's suggestion, of course being of Chinese descent. I think she said something about how she wanted to make it the tribe name so that her parents like it created an excuse to create subtitles so her parents could watch

the show, which is like very, very sweet. Unfortunately, all in effort and vanity here. But I want to establish it is Mandarin. I was incorrect. And I'm sure I'll be incorrect about lot being here because my makes the most sense on the surface, given the fact that shares the same first letter here. This this was my instinct as well. I just said, but I'm OK. Yeah. You know what? Are you walking? Yeah, I'll go with Occam's razor here and I'll say because I think PNs I feel like that means like feet soon.

I'm not entirely sure anybody here knows what PNs is an anagram for anyway. What's the answer? Exactly. Well, maybe you need a good knows what PNs is an anagram for anyway? What's the answer? Exactly. Well, maybe you need a good dose of PNs because that does mean milk. Soons is dog and Maya means house. So, Mike, unfortunately, that's no points for you here. Love that little little bit in the corner. Shout out to Dr. Gregory House. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the way. Yeah. So all the pictures that are going to represent milk are actually the big beefy

boys that won this challenge, which with a super small, teeny tiny like reference. But David doing the flexing was giving Brooklyn Heights in that lip sync against E.V. Oddly when she's pounding her pussy on the floor and she's looking at her nails. Just sorry, not sorry. Sorry, not sorry. It was that moment. So anyway. OK. So also, I hope you include that that one pick of David. I don't even need to go. Let's see. You didn't know. I don't know what you're referring to.

Well, I'll say perhaps a PNs might be attached to the bottom of that. Ah, OK. I don't think there's any PNs in this slide show, but we'll see. Adam, let's go to you. Your language is Filipino. So your three words are aso, tubig, gatas. Those are your three words. My PNs is tubig, as some might say. Tubig.

I am going to guess tubig because it's my favorite of those three sounds. Mm hmm. I like that. Well, I'm curious if you prefer drinking water compared to milk because it means milk. Also means dog and got us was the right word for milk. I'm already know is one of them always going to be dog. Is this the truth? It's milk dog and more you know. Is one of them always going to be dog? Is this the trick?

It's milk dog and miscellaneous. No, no, no, no. Unfortunately not. I just really like this picture of this puppy. So that was why I got to stay. I was I got us was the one I was most confident it wasn't because I was like, well, that I'm almost certain is going to mean a cat. Ah, yes.

The so I did pick non. So obviously I had like I was thinking about Spanish or French or, you know, language that. Right, which is why I said that. You might be familiar with those like in like Piedra because Italian for foot. Right. Exactly. So I went with ones that are going to be a little bit more difficult. So sorry, sorry, boys. Mike, we're going to are going to be a little bit more difficult. So sorry. Sorry, boys.

Mike, we're going to go back to you. We're talking Turkish. So your three words are suit, key tap and a a a a a ch. I think it's how you say it is a a word as bare bones and it helps your bones as milk? You know, like if I were creating a language, I would want the most commonplace words to be the ones that are easiest to say, easiest to spell. And I'm sure for the Turks, ah-ash is rolls off the tongue, but maybe not from a writing perspective.

So I will discount that one. OK, I will go with give me a key top. Key top. OK, you were incorrect. I'm sorry. It is suit. Also a very simple word, but that would have been the correct answer So Adam we're gonna go back to you for Greek your three words are good luck Leona Petra

Kahala or Elios I've heard of the word Petra and I'm almost positive it doesn't mean milk. So I'm going to say that I've got a 50-50 shot and I'm going to go with the second one. Okay, Gahala. That is correct. Whoa! Helios, Helios, Helios.

Petra means rock. I did know that Petra means rock. Yep, that is correct. You should have put a picture of Joe in there. Oh my gosh, I know, right? No, that would correct. You should have put a picture of Joe in there. Oh my gosh, I know, right? No, that would have been too confusing.

Mike, we're going to go back to you. Korean is the language. I was listening to Korea. I know. Thank goodness. I actually had these two swapped and I was like, no, I can't give Adam that one. So Mike, this one's going to you. Your three words are caught. Goaingi and Uyo.

Let me just ask, do you know this, Adam? I certainly do not. OK, that makes me feel better. So it's caught. What's the second one? Goaingi and Oyo, I think. Oh, you, oh, you, something like that. That's. Well, I will say

I'm going to just purely off of visual here and the Korean language is beautiful. The last one, just from a pure symbology perspective, looks like David and Joe. Just like two big, strong men sharing a glass of milk together. So I'm going to go with oil. I owe you however you said it. Oh, my God, I'm obsessed. Yes, Mike, that is correct.

So caught means flower. Go, Yenny is cat. Mike, with the symbols that represent Joe and David is correct on that one. So we are all tied up. It's one to one. I have no tiebreaker. So if you guys tie, that's what's going to happen. But Adam, you can win it here with your last question, which is in Hindi. So your three words are do the Pani or grr. So those three words are do the Pani and grr. Which I don't know if that's right. Now let me be clear.

I don't know the answer. I think that if I did, it would be crazy if I did know the answer. Actually, I'd like to argue. But Duta to me feels like it. You know the thing with Kiki and Baoba? You know about Kiki and Baoba? I cannot say that I do. Okay.

I'm going to do this really fast. We're going to do this really, really quick. OK, OK, I like that. OK. All right. Can I share my screen? Yeah, please do. Well, we'll take away the milk for now. Here we go. May I make you out of. All right.

Which one of these is Kiki and which one of these is Baoba? Oh, and so this these are words for these symbols or I'm I can't really give you anything other than the question. Which one of these is Kiki and which one of these is Baoba? See, I would say what did you think? Kiki. So Kiki is the sharp one because of sharp sounds and Baoba is the soft one because of soft sounds. That was my exact same logic as well. And this is this is, of course, correct.

Kiki and Baoba is a a this is a phenomenon that is seen across sort of all cultures and languages that anybody sort of in the world, anywhere in the world will correctly identify usually, which one is Tiki and which one is Baobao, which sort of suggests that across the whole world, the way that things kind of feel in your mouth has an effect on their meaning. And it is to this end that my guess is the first one because it felt like milk to me. Feels like milk in the mouth. You nailed it. Wow. Congratulations, Adam.

You're the winner of the game. I brought water for Mike. Honey, meaning water, that's for you, Mike. Grr, meaning house with, of course, again, Dr. Gregory House in the corner here. So congratulations, Adam. You absolutely nailed it. And you are the corner here. So congratulations, Adam. You absolutely nailed it. And you are the winner of got now.

Wow. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I love winning. I mean, this is by far the most educational version of the BNB that we have ever done between learning so many languages, between learning about Warren Buffett's take on Coca-Cola between Kiki and Baba. I'm sure there are like I wonder if there is something to like analyzing Kiki seasons of Survivor versus Baba seasons of Survivor. Oh, my gosh. I would love to break down,

which I think it's more fun to do which competitors are Kiki and which ones are about. But certainly, yes, these would be very good as well. Yeah, I mean, I think she was a very kiki type of player, though, right? Like the way she kind of punctuated every single thing that she did. And maybe that's the issue is that. And I and I think we can all agree that Cedric was a baoba. That's actually a very this was the Kiki and Baoba episode of Survivor.

I think that is absolutely perfect. Before we start shifting into our end game materials here on the B&B, Adam, I'll see the floor to you here. Is there any other stuff you wanted to bring up either about this episode, this season, the show in general before we we make our departure here? Here's here's what I'd like to tell you. I'd like to say that my boy, Thomas, it wasn't right. What happened to him. I really liked Thomas. I

liked Thomas and Bianca and I was bummed about what happened to both of them, but at least Bianca did it to herself. Thomas, victimless, sorry, victimless, that's not what I mean, blameless, was a victim of circumstance. I'd also like to say that I'm praying every night for my friend Shaheen. I really like Shaheen. I don't think that he will win because I think that he is perceived, unfortunately, correctly as being too sort of smart and calculated.

But I really like that guy. I am wishing him all the best. Are you going to hire Shaheen as your music producer for the next season of Jetlag, considering all the great acapella music he can make? Oh, I also sorry, I can't believe we didn't talk about that. That ripped and ruled. Oh, my God. That was so, so fun. I loved Shaheen for sort of doing that bit. I loved the editors. Oh, the editors were having so much fun speaking

as a person who in fact edits reality TV show. I was like, man, I mean, that's the true heroes of Survivor apart from the people who designed the game like 23,, I mean, that's the true heroes of Survivor, apart from the people who designed the game like 23, 24 years ago, are the editors. I mean, the edit on Survivor is extraordinary. I'm able to say this as a person who edits a reality TV show. God, the Survivor editors are really, really good. Yeah, that was that was such a fun montage. And I think so. Yeah. And I think even until a point

even we made last week, Leanna, like these were some of the most rote predictable boots we have had all season. But let's not, you know, you know, ignore the forest for the trees here and look at like that really fun. What minute minute and a half or we get the smack talk punctuated every so often by Shaheen's like Oshaka Laka and all that stuff like that. They're clearly having a lot of fun with these individual endurance challenges and this season is no different.

Well, that and also the casting blurb that popped up, right? So the fact that they put up the URL, that was the moment that made it really funny and turned it like more camp from cringe to camp. So I really appreciate everything the editors do. And that's the thing is that even though, yeah, it was a bit predictable, this was still such a fun episode. All right. Well, Adam, bring us home here. As we do every week on the BNB, we see the floor to our guests to provide a charity or cause that is important to them that they want the listeners of the podcast to know about. What would you like to highlight for the crowd this week?

I would like to highlight North Brooklyn Mutual Aid, which is a wonderful organization that is sort of very much on the ground doing stuff like care kit distribution that is stocking community fridges and that is also connected to the North Brooklyn Open Streets Coalition, which is a cause that I'm a big fan of, which is sort of an attempt to shut down roads and turn them into public spaces, which I think is a very good thing. Yeah, absolutely. So very, very good. Shout out. Everyone check out North Brooklyn Mutual Aid. This was an absolute blast. Thank you so, so much for taking the time to come on to play some games with us to pass the time,

making various mouth sounds, the kiki and the baobas of it all. This was an absolute pleasure. And if people want to check out more of the stuff you're doing, of course, jet lag, the game is going strong for the uninitiated. Can you just briefly talk about what it is and how people can find it? Sure. Yes. Well, jet lag, the game is a series that I make. And in our little one sentence that we like to say is that we play board games where the world is the board. So I would say that in the CBS universe,

think the amazing race, but what if vloggers did it and what if it was sort of designed in a much more like board gamey way. Sort of very much about another sentence that we like is it's a travel show. It's a travel game show where the travel is the game. In many ways, The Amazing Race is a travel game show where you travel in between little mini games that you play. And our show is a game where the actual travel is the game that you are playing where going and trying to get on a last minute flight and figuring out the right train to get on, you know, making it on it before it leaves is the whole deal. We've done seasons where we played hide and seek across a whole country. We have done seasons where we have done various races. We did a race where we circumnavigated the globe. We are currently, we are just now

wrapping up a season where we race to visit the most countries in Europe, two teams racing to get to the most countries in Europe. And yeah, it's a fun little show. And it's in fact covered on the wonderful, Rob has a podcast network by by Taryn and Sasha. And and you can listen to their coverage. And I would actually recommend that you can just listen to their coverage. There's no need to watch the show. You can just lock into what they have to say about it and you'll get the gist. That is so incredibly humble.

This is you'd be like, you don't need to check out the source material. Just check out the ancillary content. Yeah, just lock in. Just lock into what they have to say. It'll be shorter that way. Any social media you'd like to plug as well? Any other project for the listeners out there? Oh, sure. You could you could follow me at Adam H Chase on on various platforms.

I think actually on Blue Sky, I managed to get straight up Adam Chase. There ain't no H in there because I was early adopter. So you can pop over there. That's easy. You can find me there. Amazing. Leanna, you have recently made public that even though you could argue no big moves were made in this episode, you had made up for it in person with the quite literal big move that you are making. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we talked about this on the pal.

We and I are moving. So everything is very chaos right now. Talk about the Vula pre merge being chaos. Things are chaos in our household as well. So check out the pal for all details on our life updates. And then of course, drag race coverage is going strong as well. We're going to be talking about the lip sync Lollaparooza this week and then closing out the finale the week after.

So what a gag. We're almost done. And you can follow me on social media at Leonism. And you can follow me at a Mike Bloom type. Of course, check out my exit press with Se and Cedric. Two really great chats. I absolutely loved everything that Se brought to this season. I very much see your earlier points, Adam, that, you know, she channeled strategy through a very different way we've seen, especially from a new era contestant.

And it was so incredibly interesting and refreshing to not only watch it, but break it all down with her in my interview. And then talking with Cedric, where he gave a lot of insight as to the aforementioned suddenly turning on Justin to deciding to take Bianca's information and turn on her. So he gave a lot of great insight as well. Really encourage people to check that out. Outside of that, my usual coverage of the amazing race, aka I guess CBS's version of jet lag in a matter of speaking. I'm also about to actually hop on after I wrap up the podcast here and talk about The

Pit, which wrapped up its first season. Love The pit. Very highly recommend people check it out in terms of scripted content. Much more to come. I'm covering The Last of Us, which is coming back for season two here on We Know Scripted TV. So plenty of stuff out there into the universe and we'll keep on putting more stuff out there next week when indeed, from a preview perspective, this strong five may not be as strong as they are alluding to

as now that the jury has officially started and seems like at least on the horizon, we're not due for any more crazy split mix them up twists. People are really gonna start playing and we'll see exactly what that entails and how that's going to carry over into the rest of the season. Thank you all so much for listening.

Special thanks as always to the team at the rest of the season. Thank you all so much for listening. Special thanks as always to the team at RHAP behind the scenes for packaging this podcast. For your eyes and your ears. One more thing I forgot to plug. Australian Survivor Finale is coming up. Watch it. Check out my coverage that I'll be doing. I think I'll actually be with Shannon and Pooja and Chappelle. We're all getting together to talk through this really interesting season of the show. I talked to him, got to get out as well over on the reality flash.

So many things happened to the point that I just did two basic halves of plugs with a little bit of a thank you in the middle. So thank you all so much for listening to this podcast and dealing through all of our scattered mindsets as we talk through a very scattered two group vote here on Survivor 48 and Wilfrum America, of course, massive shout out for his fantastic theme song. Just a little bit of Shaheen in there as well for that extra pop. We'll be back next week covering episode eight of a Survivor 48. Until next time, everybody can tell you the name

It's the R-H-A-P-B-M-B Mike and me on a gutter playing some games You better pray to your mama that they're not super lame And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name It's the R-H-A-P-B-M-B My mom's out there not super late And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name It's the R-H-A-N-E Looking for the ultimate online casino experience? Step into the BedMGM Casino app

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