RHAP: We Know Survivor - Joe Hunter Talks Survivor 51 Ep 3

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

Joe Hunter Talks Survivor 51 Ep 3 Watch the podcast on YouTube! Survivor 51 heats up with host Rob Cesternino and guest Joe Hunter, two-time Survivor finalist, as they dissect the drama and twists from the latest episode. Rob welcomes Joe off the island and into the studio, where Joe can finally unpack his own journey and the wild shifts happening in the new Open era of Survivor 51. From a jaw-dropping mutiny to the biggest pre-merge Tribal Council in Survivor history, Rob and Joe break down the shifting sands of alliances, betrayals, and next-level gameplay. Joe shares behind-the-scenes insights about returning from Survivor, adjusting to fame, and how the game has changed now that social media and influencer culture play a real role. The pair also dig into Devin’s radical honesty strategy and what it really means to be authentic on the island, comparing big personalities like Rizo with more grounded types like Carter. Highlights from the episode include: – Carter and Lewis’s surprising vote flip and how emotions shape major game moves – The impact of a record-breaking 11-person Tribal Council and the chaos of managing a huge tribe – Joe’s take on new era dynamics, shifting production twists, and what fans (and Tyler Perry!) love about the evolving game – The debate around quitting versus sticking it out, with Joe emphasizing the importance of having a strong “why” to make it through tough times – Hot takes on mutinies, going through players’ bags, and whether influencer culture belongs in Survivor As the competition intensifies and new twists force players out of their comfort zones, Rob and Joe ask: How do trust, empathy, and social strategy survive when chaos reigns? Can radical honesty help or hurt your alliance? Who will adjust best to the ever-changing game? Listen as Rob and Joe break down every flip, mutiny, and emotional confession, and get ready for next week’s big tribe swap on Survivor 51! Chapters: 0:00 Joe Hunter Returns—Life After Survivor 2:26 Tyler Perry Friendship Sparks New Series 5:19 Survivor’s Open Era—Joe’s Take 8:42 Authenticity and Social Media Impact 12:14 Comparing Old School and Modern Seasons 14:13 Devin Claims Joe and Devens Influence 16:24 Radical Honesty vs. Survivor Showmanship 20:14 Breaking Down the Big Tribal Council 22:56 Managing Chaos with Eleven-Person Tribes 26:41 Empathy as Joe’s Survivor Secret Weapon 31:27 Rizo and “Look at Me” Survivor Culture 36:45 Mutiny Moves: Carter vs. Survivor Past 43:59 Why Do Players Quit Survivor? 49:14 Jeff Probst’s Handling of Quits 52:58 Dramatic Challenge Comebacks and Tribe Swaps 55:02 Joe Relates Most to Carter’s Simplicity 1:11:33 Joanna’s Law—Joe’s Story and Impact 1:16:13 Show About Joe’s Life with Tyler Perry 1:38:52 Why Firefighters Thrive on Survivor Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hey, everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino back here. And I'm so excited for this interview here today because we're talking with a man who's been a fixture in our survivor lives for, what, like the last year and a half. But here, he's not on Survivor. He can finally talk about what's going on. Let's welcome in our two-time Survivor finalist. Joe Hunter is here. Joe, how are you?

I'm good. Down on the front. Down, down. Yeah, it's a... Zero-time quitter of Survivor. Joe Hunter. That's right. That's right.

How are you doing, buddy? I'm doing fantastic, Joe. How have you been that you're not in the Survivor spotlight for once? I know. It's, you know what? Like, the way I speak on Survivor is it changed my life. It's one of those things that I will never ever be able to express how it changed my life. I always have Survivor.

I'll always say yes to Survivor. And it's different. watching it now that you've played, especially kind of back to back. And it's very interesting when you just sit and watch the things unfold. Okay. Well, yeah, we'll talk about all of the unfolding

in the open era. But what's going on in your life now that you're not on Survivor this summer? Not on Survivor. So I, you know, been very fortunate, connected with Tyler Perry and we made... What, right?

I don't think, people you know what's crazy rob this is not to sidetrack but it um tyler saw the episode of eva and i on our season 48 we just became friends and then my life and my sister and the divorce and my job is crazy and um all of a sudden next thing i know we're making this 16 episode series where there's smoke comes out this fall slash the beginning of next year and uh it's 100% on it's crazy it has We have some other things in the future, and it's just, uh, it's rough. But you acted in the show, but, but then you're also, you're still, you're back, you're back home and you didn't give up your day job.

I don't know what I'm doing. I love the job. I love it. But, but, um, it's definitely something that I will be done with soon and, um, doing that and just be with the TV. Yeah. He's great. and it's an awesome.

I'm so fortunate, man. I really am. But it's so interesting because, you know, there's like that old joke of like, well, like, I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV. But, you know, you are a real life firefighter, but then you're also somebody who is acting as a firefighter.

And then it must be so weird also. Then you have the notoriety from Survivor where, you know, my house is on fire. And then you probably get recognized, like, doing your job. It's wild. You know what's wild about it? is two things is on one hand, you go Survivor. And it's weird when you're not looking for anything else.

Survivor was it for my sister and that whole piece. And I think when you don't try and you let the universe kind of happen and just be a good person was so beneficial. And also with this acting gig, I mean, think about it, right? It's like you go from zero to 100. And then you're not just making a cameo. You're in this thing. And really what happened with Tyler was hearing kind of some of the stories of coming home, talking to my daughter about the tooth fairy,

these crazy calls that we go on, the Survivor, all these things, and does, boom, this is, this is going to be a show. Yeah. And he did it. And he's, he is such an amazingly talented human being, and it all stems from Survivor. It's crazy, you know?

Yeah, it makes me choke up thinking about it because I'm so fortunate. I really am. Because Tyler Perry famously, big Survivor fan, watches it all. And then, Did you talk at all about Survivor with Tyler Perry? Oh, let me tell you.

The best part is I consider us now, we're really, really, really good friends. You know, we talk daily. And I, if you want to talk about event session, it's like we are extremely synced up on players. Because there's all those players. You talk daily? I don't even talk to Brandon Donnellin daily.

I know. We at least text. I know. But it's, and what we do is I'm like, can you believe, and I let it fly. I'm like about this player, this player, this player. And what's cool is when you have someone that's like, I don't like, you know, X, Y, Z or this and that.

And it's cool that we also are like-minded. And it makes you feel not crazy. I'm like, am I crazy that this person saying this? And he's watched it enough. And it's cool that he's a fan of the show also, which is really cool. And he's extremely intelligent. So it's cool. It's really crazy, dude.

Joe, I'd love to get your take on Survivor has undergone a little bit of a makeover since you were playing it two times in three seasons. Out with the new era. Now it's the open era. Do you have any thoughts on this shift? Without a doubt. Rob, I think you can speak on this too. That when you love the game, you love the show, you love being involved. I think what we can all credit is Jeff and everybody that producer,

team, what they do a great job of, I think is understanding where the game needs to shift naturally to keep up with what we are doing currently in the world. And what I mean is the new generation that's playing, how do we shift the game? Because what players started doing was even in 50, well, we know at this point, this happens. And at this point, this vote happens. And at this point, the merge happens. And really intelligent players come into this loaded gun with like, I kind of know what's going to happen next. Jeff picked up on that. I think the team picked up on that as like not today. And fans, I think, love it because of chaos. And here's my take on this new open era, is it allows a new generation to step into this and still have the fresh reaction

to uncertainty. What happens is this shift in players, when they anticipate a beware advantage, right? They've played that out in their head. But now, when it's a regular, it's great seeing them and go, well, huh, I like that they stay ahead of that. I think it's brilliant. Yeah. I really do. I think it's been a really great start to the new season. And I really have been even surprised how fresh it feels.

Have you felt the same way? I have. And I thought that even watching it, I'm like, oh, like, I'm anticipating certain things. And I also struggle. I'm going to be honest, I'm like, I, and I don't. know if it's because once you play, maybe it's your own issues from playing. Maybe it's from how you look at the game. I had trouble in the beginning buying into players. Like I was like, man, I want to find this person. And maybe it's because of the way I play and I'm biased. And I

think what this new era does is it gets you back to loving the game and allowing the players time to breathe and really figure it out. And I think that's what really hooked me was I just love still the game of survival. When you say that you have a hard time buying into players, that as a fan, it's taken you a little bit of time to warm up to some of the new people? Is that what you mean?

Rob, just to be totally honest, what I think it is, is that you can't not get caught up in some of the social media positive and negatives when you've played. Anything you do online is judged. And I think what happens to me with some of these players is,

I gravitate to being authentic. I gravitate towards, oh, wow, that person shared divorce. That person shared XYZ. I don't enjoy, are you on it to be Instagram famous? Are you on it to, for the show of it, just to make chaos? Or are you doing it because it's really who you are as part of the puzzle? And so when I find that for me personally, being authentic, even if authentic is crazy, I gravitate to that, but I don't want to see you playing something that you think we want to see.

Yeah. Now, is that your experience from the people that you felt like that you could see that in people when you were playing? Or that's your experience as a viewer when you see social media around people who are playing in this season? It's a great. You're good. That's a great question. I will say that it's twofold. One, I recognize that my season, there was a big shift from 48 to 49. One of those being players in 49, whether they were told to or did it, started this recap of their episodes. Yeah. Right. That did not exist on 48.

We did not recap my version of what happened. And that shifts your opinion, I think, naturally, of that player. And so I've noticed that as this trends, you also have to accept maybe that's just what it is. It's not, that's where we're moving. And so I look at the game and go, man, I'm 48 to 50, then go to a returning season. And I go, oh, you know what people like. You know what people don't like. You know what sells.

You know what doesn't sell. And you know, even in your confessional, you know exactly what's going to hit and not your event. And so I noticed that shift between your first season, returning seasons, and then now what these first seasons have seen, they're even down. promoting that and applying it to their game. Yeah. Pretty fascinating.

Well, I think it is a shift on a number of different levels where that Survivor vacillates between, you know, sometimes they let the cast members do whatever they want on social media, and then it goes too far, and then they crack down. And then it's like, that's it. You know, it's like having kids. And then they have a party when you're out. Like, that's it. No more parties.

That's it. I'm taking all the phones away. That's it. But I think that they do cast, and it's not just Survivor. There's a new season of the traders that have. as like normal people on it, but a lot of them are influencers. And I think the shows feel like,

hey, if we put people on the shows who have this following, that it's going to, like, it's marketing for the show because they're going to tell people to watch the show. And so, like, it's, we don't, maybe we don't love it,

but we take the good with the bad. Well said, taking the good with the bad. And I shouldn't even say bad, right? But to your point, what Survivor does a great job of it, I think they have a pulse on it. They go, listen, social media now is this platform. And if we don't embrace it, we will be maybe not behind, but it's part of the future.

And it wasn't there earlier. I mean, there's seasons where they didn't even have that, right? You talk to Jenna, talk to Jenna's experience where it was print. Like print was the game, right? And now you have instant access to me right now. Instant access. I could post about it the night the show happened. Listen, Joe, I'm old enough to remember.

It was like that you were, they, you had. to act like you were still on the island. You weren't allowed to be like in pictures of that they like it's like no that they would tell you like okay well the audience is kind of they don't really understand that the show's already filmed so you can't be seen anywhere. You can't be in photos or anything like that. Not that you had that many ways to share photos but it was like a big thing if you got photographed somewhere that for people they need to think you're still on the island until you're not. Rob, let me ask you this. And I know you, I really wanted to know this is with your experience with when you played to know, because you're in it.

You're always in the mix of us current players. How is it for you interviewing when you think back to when you played what you dealt with, how the game was, every element of the game. You can pair your physical ability to be like, man, I was there into what it actually is now. How is that? Because you're so current, you get a feel for it, you get a taste for it. You know the behind the scenes. How is it for you when you see that swing? The analogy is like, like I went to this high school, but now I teach at the high school.

And, you know, people graduate and they're like, oh, Mr. Sesternino, you're still here? Like, yeah, we got a new, a new crop of kids here. They're a bunch. They're crazy. So. Well said. It's, you know, it's, I've done it for so long. It's like really all I know at this point.

So, you know, I don't really get the chance to get too far away from it. Well, said. Well, you do a great job, buddy. We appreciate because you have the context of some culture in the game, which matters. And then you have the footprint of the current, which I think bridges that gap. Yeah. It's awesome. I appreciate that, Joe.

I want to ask you about somebody particular in this cast where there's a guy named Devin in this season. And I don't know if you're familiar with this, but he told us, in the preseason, he's like, hey, wait till you meet me. He said, I'm the love child of Joe Hunter and Rick Devin's. Did you hear this? I did. Yes. I did.

There's so much going on because my brain, I'm visually. So when, like, it's a fire world, when you give me a scenario, I'm picturing, oh, there's a two-story building with fire. So when you say that, I'm like, oh, because no offense to Rick, but it's like, oh man and um those moments are hard for me because you couldn't be more different and for the record i think survivor needs all of those players like i've said before you need rick i think you need a me you need all of it to make it what it is i was like where are you going with you it's so different i'm like i was puzzled i wanted to see like i wanted more on that do you see the vision yet

I see the Devons. Yes. I see the Devons. I see the Devons. For the record, my mindset in this game is when I go into it, I feel like in this past episode, what does everybody talk about when it hits the fan? His analogy about this castle built and sound, I want a foundation, other players. I just want some honesty.

What does everybody default to when it gets hectic? Now, their preseason, I'll play Amazing Race. They name the most chaotic players. I want to emulate the most chaotic players. Then you get out there, and it's time to get down to it, all of you want a soft landing. You all want trust. So my argument always is, if you want to be that player, it doesn't mean that other players can't lie, but you have to be that soft landing of trust. And so what I see from him is the ability to do the Devin's side of it.

And what I mean by that is you understand the performance side of it, but you're also a good person. But the trust side of it is also understanding approach and delivery. So sometimes honesty has to be in a platform where your receiver is in a place to accept it. So I'm seeing one side. I haven't seen it yet. but maybe it's because we're early still, right? In the big scheme of it. I would say that where I see it is that his approach to the game,

and he's talked about this a couple of times, is this idea of radical honesty, where that he does want to be the showman like Rick Devons and maybe he come up with the outside-the-box ideas. But I think that he also wants to approach people with this idea of honesty, and we saw it in the first episode where, hey, everybody, just so you know, this is what I'm doing at Tribal Council tonight, these are my people that I'm working with,

and he's being, like, totally cards up about what his intentions are in the game. And I think that that's the Joe Hunter part of it that I see. You know, it's interesting about because I think that, and you have to look at yourself when I totally over-analyzed both my seasons when I was done. But I would say what the difference for me is, with a Rick, with the Savannah,

with whoever I played with, I go, I tried to reserve that honesty. The point of it was for a select few. It's like, hey, The goal is it to make this game illegal to lie. The goal of it for me was, in our alliance, don't lie to me in our alliance, but I want you to go lie. Right. And so I think we'll see if that works with the group, because sometimes the group's like, I don't want any part of that.

And I'm hoping that that was my mindset. But I do see that he, where he's coming from with the statement is like, I'm trying to be honest, but I'm trying to be a showman, so I get it. But it's more like when I look at this, I feel like there's Edward Scissorhands. We've created this thing that has a beautiful capability, but on the outside, when you look at it at first, you're like, so I'm trying to make sure that this ends up with a beautiful end. You know, we're talking about Rick a little bit. Did you happen to catch any of Big Brother this summer? So I will always support, I feel, anyone in our community that is out there, you know, essentially attached to Survivor.

That show, I think, does a great job of, like, people are hooked on. Yeah. And when I heard his name, I'm not just saying it because I was like, M&D specifically, and there's a few others I can name. That's their game. I witnessed it. So I'm happy for them. I think that, and I'm not, you could have closed my eyes, and I'm like, they're going to be in that. No matter, I mean, winning is winning, right?

I'm not shocked at all. Yeah. Yeah, that's Rick. I think you would hate being in the Big Brother House so much. You know what's great is I so want to now just because I love, Rob, secretively, I'm so stubborn. I love whenever someone's like you can't this, I just want to do it. I think you could do it. I just don't think you would like it.

Fair. That's 100% accurate. And here's why. I think that, um, that's so, oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. I didn't do it. That's on Europe.

If you're listening to the podcast that, yeah, that, uh, for whatever, whatever happens, on Joe's camera, he just gave himself a balloon party. Did I do that? Did I do that? Oh, my God. Sorry. I am, the, the big brother piece of it is, if I were to say, oh, that would be tough, is just that, here's an inside tip, Rob, honestly, I can be super combative.

I can be just like, I'm not afraid. Here's my saying that I've stolen from other people is, I don't want a problem. But if you want a problem, no problem. Yeah. So Big Brother would use that and I would be like in trouble. Yeah. I'd be in trouble. Yeah, I think it could be good television if they ever wanted to go in that direction.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So tell me a little bit about that we had a big vote swing in this last episode where we had Carter and Lewis who decided to flip to go with this other group of four. Did you have any thoughts about this latest tribal council? Here's the deal that we've got to factor into all of it, as you know, is when certain people, there's confidence and then there's arrogance. And there's also this ability when you think for sure, I'm in charge, I got this no matter what.

What happens is you forget that these are humans that are easily swayed by their emotion. Not about your ability to eat. It's about their own ability to fight doubt. You're fighting doubt. And I think about the shift was, what about going through people's bats? What about that dynamic, right? What about, you know, in the moment thinking about when these minds start to shift, it's like pinky promise.

And then two seconds later, check this out. And I feel like the switch is normal this early in the game because everybody is overthinking the double agent, the triple agent. And I feel you have less of that, the longer you go, you start to read the BS. That's my humble opinion. You know, it's so interesting. This was a tribe of 11. I think this is the biggest tribal council we've ever had before the merge, where other than when two tribes are coming together. so this is the biggest vote we've ever had.

We're so used to in the new era where you have six. And I think, especially on day six, you know, in your original tribe of six, I think you have a pretty good handle on where everybody's head is at. But it's so many people to manage in 11. It's almost twice what you had to have in the new era. It's twice. And then you think about those dynamics is because there's just, and now with the back to the kind of live tribal where people are just,

And I think Carter said it like, you know, this whole idea of just coming in with a plan. Well, that's also criticized by some, right? In 48, we did that. It was like, hey, this is going to be the plan. This is how you do it. This is how you move. And to your point, when you get this many people, I feel the real art of going to tribal council is going, listen, there's a moment we won't be able to speak anymore for a while. There's a time period of us to just rely on one thing.

I'm going to have blind trust because I have to. I'm banking on the fact that if it doesn't work out, it will fry your game in the end. So I'm just going to be still. And I feel that's truly how you start to manipulate the game is by staying calm and going, Joe's always a rock. He's never wavered. He's quiet. He's poised.

And I feel like early on in these tribals, it's almost impossible, Rob, with this many people. It really is. You know, and because how do you do that with this many people who it only takes one person to go, ooh, what is that? Or when you start to talk when Jeff serves it up to you, say less. Say less. Yeah. And the more you talk and some people can't get out of their own way.

They really can't. I think that's the issue. Yeah, I think that's such a great way to play the game, especially when you are in a good position. but how do you how do you navigate that when things when you're on the business end of what's happening where that's okay you can stay still but that you don't feel like things are going your way well said and a good point a good counterpoint like like that's the survivor 48 playbook that's that's great true true and and then you experienced that in 50 though when it was a little more chaotic at times as should be. I think that what happens when you feel like you're on the out, I feel like to counter

that, your only option is to do the showman and to swing for the fence. And I understand that part of the game is that when you're on the backside of it, and it's a great point, Rob, is that, yeah, you don't want it to be steady. You don't want to. And there's times when you almost feel iced out, of like, well, now what do I do? And the only chance you got is to play on that doubt. So I think that's why tribal councils. And this is the piece that no one really talks about. That's why Jeff is so brilliant.

Jeff will be talking to you, Rob, right? Knowing maybe you're kind of tucked into this, hey, what's the big deal? We're all locked in. Then read out of the corner of his eye, read the body language of said player and then go, what's going on? And even his ability to host that tribal counsel, he says less and he lets us step in front. And to your point, it allows that dynamic. It allows a person on the bottom to fight and the people on the top to stir. So Devin fancies himself as, you know, a potential

offspring of you in the game. He did not get along great with Kilby. Do you think that you would have been able to work with a Kilby on Survivor? Without a doubt. And I think this is the part of my game where people really didn't see is it was never about the player I'm with lying and cheating to other people ever. It was never about that. To me, what it was about is just don't do it to our alliance. If we are in an alliance, and then I think with him, you can sense in that relationship, he's unsettled. He's nervous. he needs a little reinsurance. They have a big talk on the log about, hey, I feel like you don't like you.

I feel like you don't. In that moment, the difference between me and him is I feel like my secret weapon is empathy, not sympathy. And empathy can change everyone's dynamic and it's a palpable thing. And honest to goodness, it's like, hey, I don't think you like me. Pause, good eye contact. Like, yes, I do. Yes, I do. That, boom, you can work with him the rest of the...

Does that make sense? Like, making it not about you and going, I need to put some work in right now into this relationship and not focus on honesty, but focus on empathy. Yeah. Does that make sense? It makes a ton of sense. How were you able to use empathy to build trust with allies

in your survivor journey? You know, it's twofold. You go your first season versus your second season. I feel that empathy in the first season just meant by me showing vulnerability on the island in my first season. What I was trying to do is like at the end of the day, I'm raw enough to admit that I am stubborn, weak, emotional, all the good, all the bad, hoping that you pick that up and go, this is actually a real dude. And he's being vulnerable and that pathway will build friendship. Because your best friends, you're vulnerable. So I'm trying to do that in like a two-day period, right?

It's like, I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm like, I don't know, man, 50. You can do that with the wrong people and they're going to use it. You know what I mean? And that's the veteran part. It's like, you were too open. That's weakness. I got you.

And so I think the key on your first season is understanding what are you doing? Is it your first season or is it your second season or third or fourth? So I tried to build it with being genuine, honestly. You know what I mean? Yeah. And vulnerable. Something that I think hurt you, Joe, I think that if you would have played in the 39-day era, I think that your skill set would be even better in the longer game.

I think that the way that you talk about, you know, building trust and building relationships, I think that pays more dividends in the game that's not so fast-paced. And especially when we get to 50 where it's not 18 people in 26 days. Now it's 24 people in 26 days. Well, and here's what it really comes down to. But I think what, and I don't even know how to is when you think about it, the topic is not two times played, final three, both times. Yeah.

This many challenges in two seasons. What it is is this battle of trust. and lies and not. And I think that's polarizing the people because they feel almost judged. Well, I'm not a bad person. I can. And I think the element that I wanted to do, to your point that I think hurt me in a shorter season was I wanted people's egos to step in front of the fact that I'm winning

challenges. I wanted that ego to be, he's a likable person. I wanted their egos and go, yeah, you're right. The player that you love that's dramatic will be home in a week because I'm going going, yep, look at him. You're right. And to sit. And Rob, I equated it to this, like in football.

Sometimes you can run the ball the entire game. And for those that haven't played, it's boring to watch. But if you get to the Super Bowl, isn't that the goal? And you know what I've noticed is the difference is I hear so many players. I want to have fun. I want to be chaotic. I wanted to win. I'm trying to win the game.

I'm so competitive that I realize that my that strategy takes time though you're out there with me I'm going to go look at him dude he's awesome and I want you to step in front and as long as I'm not being noticed it's another day and so you're right I think that the uptempo of the current game but also my ability to not conform that like I'm going to do it my way and I wanted to do it different than anyone else had. Yeah. Well, I think you did. I think that you really

had a different approach than so many people had at coming into the new era. And I think that really the culmination of the new era is the Riz God. Like, I think that he is the embodiment of the younger generation

of Fann. And we have that conversation where he has with Colby of like, we don't really do camp life. It's not really, we don't really build the shelter. And you, in the particular point that you come into Survivor,

you're really a throwback to the types of people that played Survivor going back to around the time that I played in Survivor. Well said. And you bring up a good point with Grisga, because there's two levels to look at that. Take him as a person out of it. Great kid.

Love him. Like, no ill will. That's like real life. My world is who I am as a competitor. Who labels themselves? Right? To me, it's LeBron versus Jordan. It's just like, what? And I go, your goal, did you give yourself that nickname? And then I thought, oh, but people love it. So then I have to go to your point, I step back and go, oh, it's changed. It's changed. The game has changed because if that's what the crowd loves is look at me, look at me, look at me. I got to go, I'm just used to look at me as they'll make it to the end every time, right? That's what. how you, and that mindset, to your point, I didn't, it's tough for me to adapt, but isn't that the brunian part of casting? But also, the audience isn't a monolith, you know, people love Rizzo,

but people love you too. I think you're my mom's favorite survivor player. That might include me. Is that right? Yeah. Rob. Oh, my, my mom, that every week is Survivor 48. It's talking about like, oh, the firefighter Joe. So, I mean, listen, Tyler Perry's a fan. So the audience, the audience likes all different types of players. Fair. And that's, you know what?

I'm glad you brought that up. Because I think we all get caught up in sometimes the negative. And I've said this, and you're right, Rob, well said, buddy. I will stand on this that I do think it needs everybody and every type. To make it that, right?

don't think if you had all the same type of like the showman, I don't think it would hit. I think you need the extremes. And I don't think it's an accident that people like me and Rizzo were cast together. But then look how we finished too. And you guys got along. 100%. 100%. But I'm going to be honest with you.

On 48, we wouldn't have. Yeah. It's maturity too. As you start to play, you start to realize like, okay, Joe, don't. Because right when I met him, I'm like, he's just. your son, he's your son. You know, there's a 20-year gap. You had a pager, Joe. When you were going up, you had a pager. Just leave it with that. I had newspapers delivered to my home. So just chill. Yes. When you say maturity, you're talking about yourself, right? Not Rizzo.

Correct. The maturity of letting that breathe, instead of trying to change that and put that out, like, we won't be doing that. Like, you know what? Let's, that's okay. Like, embrace that. That's maturity for someone like me, right? I'm like, hell no. But then I'm like, you know what, Joe, let it breathe.

Right? Fine wine. Let it breathe. How would you have reacted to having somebody mutiny to your tribe like Carter did in this episode? I know. Honestly, emotionally, season 48, I react immediately with emotion.

Yeah. And overreact. 50, I let him shoot himself in the foot. I step back and I let it spin up, spin down, and then calculate who we want. Yeah. But 48, I overreact. I immediately grab that. How dare you?

And, oh, I, you know, one of these, right? And then 50, or we're coming back, I would now. let it sit and keep him close to you and keep him from going home because I'm going to use that later I was like do you remember what he did and like keep him around

yeah so I love that they did this on Survivor and give them the opportunity to do a mutiny but the last time they had a mutiny on Survivor back in season 13 boy people were pissed what like how could they how could they mutiny away from us? There was some talk of like, this guy's, this guy's an idiot.

He's mutining to, they didn't vote out, Jonathan Penner. But they were talking about like, hey, well, you know, last one in, first one out. And there wasn't even a whisper of, hey, we should get rid of Carter. Straight up. And you know what I attribute that to is as a fan, you watch it and you go, wow, like, that's as it's happening, you're like, ooh, he is. and how does it just fade? And I think what the fans, but you know this firsthand is,

there's this in between these events. There's so much social dynamic that's happening that as it goes up to tribal, I think so many people default back to, I don't want to go home. And they're sometimes blinded by the immediate impact of tribal council and what that's going to do till tomorrow

versus what he did, Carter, where you think that's an easy out and what I, again, I'm going to say it again, ego. When people start saying, yeah, but I have a plan. I want this plan. Well, I have a plan. Not thinking about, can we talk about the elephant in the room what he just did? And isn't that why it's beautiful, though? Yeah.

Because it all stems from our emotional reaction to chaos. Yeah. And they were so divided when he showed up that it wasn't even both both sides. like, good, we can use him to get rid of the person that I want to get rid of. Yeah. And how about this? Going through someone's bad. Yeah.

I mean, do we talk about it? Old versus new? And people would probably think I'm appalled. I mean, it happened on my season. Yeah. Were you there? So I remember, so it was Shaheen went through Kyle's bag, right, after the swap. And then did not find the idol that Kyle had.

I don't know if it was in his actual. bag at that time. Do you know, was it? So I don't believe it was. I don't remember the detail of that, but I remember I was away on a walk and I was, as it came back, I remember thinking, oh, no, only because, uh-oh, he, Kyle, if you think about that move, which pivoted their game is also finding out who went through your bag. So it's this delicate balance of, I'm not the one that's like, don't do that. I'm like, you got to hit when it hits, right? Genevieve tried.

I mean, there's many seasons now where it's like, that's a strategy, but we don't talk about it a lot in this episode because it's like, did we just jump over the fact that that's, it's just, it's almost like, yeah, of course. And the fact that a new player doesn't go, I'm not going to leave my Rolex on my bag at customs in the airport, just on top. It's like, it's also like, oh, shoot, dude.

I know you've watched an episode. But you have to put that in your choney's. You got to like, what are we doing? Right, right. You know, and he was lucky because he also had an idol. We don't even know if the idol was in his bag. But they found the envelope that was right on top. So they stopped there.

They didn't look to see if he had anything else, which is wild. Right. But I don't know, maybe there was some thought of like, well, there's nine people sitting here. They're not going to all just go out in broad daylight, but they did. They did. And my argument is that's the new error. is also this this mindset of if we normalize aggressive chaos and make it normal, it's not weird. So if I, it's demeanor.

If I go, should I do it, it becomes a thing. But if I just go, oh, man, is that your wallet? Yeah. And I take it, it's almost this, this confidence in mischief. Yeah. They're just confidently doing it. And I feel, then everyone else goes, yeah, let's do it. and the mob mentality.

Versus, I'm going at home going, oh, no, no, no, no. Hide it, buddy, hide it. But then I go, in the heat of the moment, it's so easy now to sit there and say what it could have should have. Yeah. Well, I don't know what he really, what you said put it in his pants or his underwear, because, like, it's a big thing.

True. I feel like that it's almost, but it's more suspicious if he walks around with the backpack of like, anomaly, I'm going to hold on to my bag. I know, and did you bury it? I mean, again, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I get it.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a difficult path. But now as a player coming up. Sure. Point, you have to factor in. That's why I've always wondered, is it worth, like, that's all part of the game now, is your belongings are basically open to anyone living on the street to rummage through. Yeah. And this is a lot for a new person to have.

And like, you're a seasoned, grizzled survivor vet at this point. This is a guy that he got blindsided at the tribal council the night before. He's on a boat going to the other tribe. It's day five. Like, it's a lot of stuff to think about of like, oh, I got to like, okay, now this guy just gave me an envelope. I got to hide it to make sure that nobody goes through my bag. And I got to also get an advantage when I get to that tribe. So, and you haven't eaten, you know.

haven't eaten. And where's left? So it's a lot that goes into this. He's seen a finger missing. Yes. But he didn't know. He didn't see that. He's seen a guy.

He's heard about it. Maybe he heard about it. What did you think about that? You're, you know, as somebody who's come up in a lot of different emergency situations, I have to imagine you've seen your share of stuff. So what was your reaction to that? I think from a fan, your normal person, there is such a thing. That is great television.

And I say that in the most, I never wish ill, but he's still able to play the game. Yeah. He's not going to be like permanently can't use the finger. So it's like, on one end, I'm like, wow, what are the odds? The easy answer is like, what are you doing? Why would you chop? That's the easy answer. I think watching it for me, that's a normal Tuesday.

It's like, pick it up, put it on your keychain. I'll give it to you later. It doesn't even raise an average. but I recognize they cast so well, Jesse, Penny, everybody cast so well that that's what you want, is you want somebody that's like, what am I doing in this overplay, like, oh, my gosh, and then you want somebody else to not care. And I think a simple finger partial amputation, when you really think about it, if you're a great player, watch what that player does.

Are you making it a show? Are you tough? Are you not tough? What is other? use it as an experiment to figure out who I can work with in the future. So there's also that dynamic going on. And then there's other players that self-checkout. Yeah. Right? From an infection or a foot, like, isn't that the extreme? Like one guy has his finger cut off and other guy's like, I'm out. Right? Right? Yeah. We haven't talked about that yet. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about it.

Okay, so, you know, you mentioned that, okay, you could tell about a person from like how they handle the injury. I guess my question for you with Rob, do you buy the injury? This is tough because I, and this is where I get, I default is like, you know, as a player, I'm like, he's going to be super heightened and sensitive to this topic. And everything that comes in, they listen to, they read, they watch every single topic about this, he will watch, right? In theory, here's my opinion on. the deeper issue is you know when someone says you're angry and they like they focus on the

emotion i always go to there's something deeper you're probably sad you're probably hurt there's a more vulnerable emotion when you look at everything that happened the episode before you look at this you look at the comments and the things he actually said i honest to goodness feel that that dude misses his family that dude misses the little The kids. I feel there was a deeper issue. I think the game is harder than people think. And in addition, there's this, whatever that is, this injured.

And it's so much harder out there than I think people realize. It's so much harder than people realize. And so there's this combination of, and now you're being filmed. There's no easy way out. Do I think that he had something going on? Yeah. Do I think he could have stayed? of course.

The question is, is it right or wrong? That's a tough one. But do I think he could say, sure? I mean, there's evidence of players that have dealt with more, right? But I feel bad for him. I feel like he is conflicted. And that's what I'll say. Would I have done it?

No. You know, I think the biggest shame is some of these players that have, excuse me, people that have been applying. Yes. I think where he gets it is people that are like seven years in that would literally cut off. And I think they would. Yeah.

Would cut off a foot to stay. Right. I think that's where it gets hard is people that are like, man, that was my spot. You know? Yeah. That gets hard. It's always been the case.

The fans really don't like it when you decide that you want to quit. Going back to, you know, I've been talking about this show on the podcast for, I think this is year 16 of this. And back in Survivor, Nicaragua, when purple, there were two women quit the same night. And they walked out and people just lost their minds about that.

And, you know, and it's the type of thing that Jeff has gone back and forth of how hard should I be on the quitters. This was muddy in that. Rob, you know, has, something going on with his foot. He says he's in a lot of pain that I talked in this morning. He maintains. He was in a lot of pain in the exit press.

So it's a tough spot, I think, for Jeff of like, okay, it's not like somebody's like, hey, I want to go home. It's like, hey, I have this. You know, I know you can't see an injury, but I'm feeling an injury. It's a pain tolerance. I'm worried about an infection. So, but the fans get very like, hey, I would have never, that, you know, that you would have had to, you know, you would have had to drag me out of this game.

Well, here's something to think about, Rob, that I think we kind of overlook sometimes in this element is think about Jeff. And when people talk about his replacement, this is why I've heard some of the names and I go, absolutely not, because this is the moment where he shines. Think about it. He made it very clear that this is not survivor pulling him, which is a key element. Because the fans are like, well, what's going on? Oh, I heard that he was told behind. No, Jeff's like laying it out. And he also does it in a way that's like, let me go back to it. Right. He's asking clear questions. So what about tribal? Why didn't you? Great questions. It's like he's got a live mic. It's like, well, and he can in the moment on his feet go, well, wait a minute. Why did you mention this during tribal? Well, why didn't you say anything to the doctor? Why are we sitting here now? And it's just great softball, but yet also particularly.

protecting the integrity of everybody. It's like, and then telling the group, hey, we're not pulling him, but it also is his decision. That is a brilliant host. He didn't really blast him, but he didn't let him off the book. And the show, yeah, the show let the contestants say what they needed to say. Jeff didn't say it. Right. And then he lets the contestants, he serves up the softball.

What do you guys think? He knows what they're going to say. Yeah. And that's why he's so brilliant is he doesn't step in front of that. And he doesn't have to shame you or support him. He can just state the facts. Yeah. And he lets the show handle it.

My fear is, A, I don't want to see anyone with a permitted injury. And as long as you don't, I don't want regret. I don't want regret from someone that stayed. And, man, I injured myself permanently. I should have left or I left in two years from now ago, I shouldn't have done that. I just don't, I hope there's no regret. You know, either way. But I think the fans, that what we want to see is,

we want to see like Kyle last season where it's like, okay, I know, I know this is injured. Like, hey, can you let me stay? Can you give me like, like, uh, like, no, you know, we can't, in good conscience. Like, we've looked at this. You can't stay. Not like, no, we, you got the green light.

Go back out there. Like, ugh. You know, I just, you know, I want to be safe. Well, how about this, Rob? This is a sensitive topic. Think back to heroes and villains. Sure. Right.

And you got a person, girl, she dislocates her shoulder. Yeah. They pop it back in and think about the physicality during your season. Think about that, right? Sure. No offense. Imagine the same context of it. And I'm not trying to like start this battle, but think about that.

I mean, people are getting. James, I mean, there's people that have like Tori-CLs and they're like trying to figure out a way. Like, can you just pop that back in? If you were dislocated your shoulder, let me tell you, the fact that you go, let me just, oh, you here we go. And I think of old school players and I go, hey, man, I got a foot thing. Sandra, there's people that I think would like cut my foot off. We'll be like, well, hold on.

Let me just cut it off for you so you can say. That's interesting. Joe, it's not just old school people. there's a woman, Kristen, on this season that she has broken bones in her foot. And she's like, listen, as long as I'm not doing permanent damage, let me stay. Good point. And I feel I would be that way. I feel like there's a lot of players currently.

I guess I was trying to show that dramatic swing of also what the entire environment almost didn't allow it. The environment's like, no, no, no, you're staying. Like, we're, let's keep pushing. And I think, isn't it fascinating? Rob, like even what that did, though, think about the vote, think about the swing, think about the environment in camp, these unexpected, what do you mean he's going? And think about somebody that's banking their game around. I need him in it. They're a puzzle piece. People also forget that shifts the entire game. One person like adding that plus the vote, your entire game in one night

you're going, I don't even know what I'm going to do that. Yeah. Well, it's a deeper player game. It set off a whole chain reaction because then because of that, Carter was his ally. And then Carter, who ends up with an idol now also is like, hey, I'm going to, like, I'm going to mutiny to the other tribe. And so then it ends up with this dynamic where we have 11 people on one tribe and then now we're only in seven on the other. And it's set up this really dramatic come from behind victory in the challenge. Were you a part of any challenges that were a big swing like that where one tribe is like, very far ahead and then it goes the other way? You know, I think that the best analogy formula is we had some battles in 48, but in 50,

you put me with Aquaman and Aquaman too when we had this big challenge and it's Jonathan and Ozzie. And my team's like, you're up and I'm like, I'm up. I mean, I can get in the water. But this is literally two actual fish. I think they're fish. And we get in and we're behind. I'm doing the best I can.

I think I can beat most people in. that situation and I'm bringing up the rear, getting digging through under, we're behind. And what happens at the very end? You know, Tiffany does a great job on bagging the bags and all of a sudden we're tossing the V bags, boom, boom, boom. We come from behind, we win. And it's a huge swing. And it leads to Zach Brown and all these things. And my point in that is that you can never, ever, ever count somebody out. And I think that what happens is this being ahead, just, just means in the moment, you've allowed yourself some grace to make more mistakes. You got to, you got to.

And why are we all shocked? A puzzle. Rob, I can't even, my dyslexic butt doesn't even understand. I can't even spell half these words, let alone am I going to tackle a puzzle? If we haven't figured out by now that your lead means nothing, because Jeff knows where to put the puzzle. So I thought it was awesome. Yeah.

No, it was a really fun story also, because it was like, oh, man, this is just going to be such a blowout. They've got all of the strong people on this one tribe. And then it was great that they came back. I'm a little disappointed. They're going to mix the tribes up next week. I know. I think that too. And that's a huge blow in the game.

You know, it's like, but I love that's uncertainty. Because right when you're like, man, I feel good. I kind of like my tribe now. I love that Jeff's like, ah, ah. Yeah. Wow. It's good. I really like that they had in the beginning of the season,

they all got to kind of know each other a little bit, walking around on the beach. And they had, I don't know how much time they actually had together. But then there's been a little bit of now, like, cross-pollination with the tribes, with Devin going to go visit the other tribe. And now they're going to mix things up. And so it's going to be, I think, fun to see. It's not just going to be, I think, like, hey, this is what the tribes are.

especially we have the alliance, the helicopter alliance of people that met each other already and are kind of locked in also. So I think it's going to be interesting to see them going to these new tribes. Well, think about this, Rob, and I'm just bringing it up

because it's the most current season with 50. Myself and Genevieve land on a tribe with Aubrey, Rick Devons, and Christian. And those moments are random. And it literally, I think Genevieve is one of the most talented players to play the game and her intellectual side of the game is amazing.

And my point in saying that is, the context is all of a sudden, based on however it comes about, you land a swap of people changing who you're with can literally within 24 hours send you home. And you know what's brilliant about the game, Rob, is how most of it's random, whether it's rock, draw, pick your buff. And you're thinking, just on that, I'm going to go home because I landed without my allies or resources. So I think what that builds now, what we'll see is they know that's coming, people can lose their mind knowing that we're going to change, right?

So sometimes that night going back is just chaos, like what's going to happen in, right? So it'll be interesting to see what that does. Joe, I have questions for you from the listeners of Rob is a podcast. Let me give you some of these questions for you. Please do. Here's a question from Speedball Sports wants to know which player does Joe relate the most to

I suspect it's not Devin Is there somebody that you do feel like out of this cast of 21 that you relate to? So, okay, I gotta be honest. So I, I I struggled at first because I didn't, the social media burst of this look at me and all the videos and the clips

and the look at me really made me go, even if they had something to offer. And then I'm listening to each player talk about who they're from you too, like who they like, who they don't like. And I was judging. I'm like, that's who you chose. So I'm like polarized by it, right? And Carter at first, his simple, it seems genuine at first. I'm going to be honest with you.

I know outside of the game, it just seemed like his analogies and his ability. He just seemed genuine. He wasn't there to create this false reality and showmanship. He was just like, here we go. And I love sometimes that simple, I am who I am, because at the end, I think he's going to be steady. I think that he might misstep, as I say this now, with what just happened. But I can go, I can go to you and have an honest conversation at any point in the game. how I felt if you're in with him.

So to be honest, I know it probably sounds crazy on the eve of what just happened. That's who I naturally gravitated to. Was that? Now, I get that. I feel like he's a pretty hardworking guy, self-deprecating. I feel like that he has a pretty easy way about him. I think that people probably underestimate him. It's something that I saw also, like, you know, firsthand with, I don't know how much

you followed the traders, the one that I went to go do. But there was this guy Rob that was on that season. He didn't quit. But I think people really underestimated him because they felt like, okay, he's from Alabama. He's not really putting a lot out there. And he really ran circles around people. I agree. And that's kind of what I was thinking too is.

And this is, I want to do like, I change. I changed my mindset. There's an initial reaction. And if someone's like, I went through divorce, so I went through this. So there's these normal athletes. because I feel like you get stereotypes, right? But that's an ex-prose. So I have this initial burst, and then I always shift when we start getting more single

digits because you know what starts happening? You start hearing their story. So I do want to say this disclaimer. As stories start to come out, I immediately can pivot. Like, oh, man, that hits home. So I do shift later on in the season. When I start hearing their real stories, it pivots. for sure for me.

I'm a sucker for that. Yeah. This is from Bobo Doe 45. How does Joe feel about the Mr. Beast coin being a permanent fixture moving forward? Okay. So, a great question. Bobo is it? That's a great question.

Bobo Doe. Bobo Doe. I would say, that's great. I at first, right, when I heard this, I was conflicted on a, well, how is this going to work? and then I think about how it can compile and the dynamic of how it's going to work. You know why I love it is I don't think people understood how crazy that was to experience someone. And I also think it's brilliant for Rick because you'll always be, if you're willing to make that gamble, it's so shocking because being in that situation for the players live is so like,

what do you need this person could go home or we get this much money? I love that in theory, you could have all this money now. I think it's absolutely brilliant. I genuinely think it's brilliant. And I kind of want other people to experience it. Yeah. It's more intense than they realized. Well, I thought it was great. What did you think? Yeah, I mean, I think we got to see somebody flip the coin and lose on that because I think that maybe people will be less likely to want to do it And they're like, what? I lost because I flipped the coin. What the hell?

And it'll be interesting to see that. The one thing I don't like about it is that they say that, okay, they flip the coin and then it's, you're wrong, you're out, tribal council over. No, still vote somebody out. True. Like, if Rick Devons went home at that tribal council, that was exciting. Everybody was fighting. I wanted to see what was going to happen.

And then all of a sudden, like, tribal council got blown up. Rick Devin flips the coin. and he's out and then that's it, go home? No, still have a tribal council. Well said. And I think you're right. And I think what that would do to your point is now it really elevates your game because you're almost having to balance, well, you're going to flip it.

Okay, but if you, your strategy of the what ifs, so if you lose and if we don't, who's our backup plan and the backup plan? Yeah. What do we do if this person flips the coin? Exactly. You're right. I think, but I also think that maybe it allows us to sit in the, in the moment of just the calling.

Yeah. Maybe that's the point, is the impact of it is to give it its time to, and maybe they'll change it, Rob. I mean, you have a big voice, right? But maybe also it's the impact of let the moment breathe. And I appreciate that, but maybe here's the thing about me. Maybe I'm not right. Maybe I'm wrong about this because I kind of feel like that if I'm the Stephanie in that

spot who's got maybe i'm rooting for like okay don't come in don't come in you know so like if it's like hey it's either he's going to be safe and get the idol or there's still going to be a travel council i'm kind of screwed now so now it kind of like hey if i'm the backup target i like hey let me push this guy out in front go flip the coin and then i got a root for him to not hit the coin but you know what rob as we talk about it think about it if it was you flipping it and we went home i did it you did it you want your moment to be alone like I want this episode. If I did that and I'm just gone now,

I do kind of want it not to be cluttered now, overshadowed with. So maybe it's also that grace of like, let's pause for a minute because somebody's going home. I guess. And it's a big bet. This is the other very nerdy reason why I don't, I want them to still vote somebody out.

Because if I'm sitting there and I'm on my couch and it's 926, and now, okay, here comes Dev to flip the coin, as like, I'm not feeling too good about this. I think this is... Fair. I think this coin is not going to go his way. So that's the one thing that I don't like about it. That's a good point.

I'm telling you, you got influence. You watch now. I'm telling you, if the next season, if that happens, you're bringing me back on and I'm giving you a virtual hub. So I'm going to like, this dude right now made that happen. I was here to witness it. Is there ever a scenario, where you would flip the coin.

Is that something you would? Yeah, you would. Absolutely. I feel like in Rick's position, for example, what people maybe don't know or know is if you genuinely feel you're going on, like it's or it's the writings on the wall and you feel I can't get out of this spot no matter what. I feel like why not in that scenario?

and if you hit it, how big that mark is for you. Now, me, I also look at it like, what I actually flip it is my strategic brain goes, yes, if I'm on the bottom, I'm going to be real with you. Anything can happen. So it's like, do you really want your legacy, your name, your, some people lead their jobs? Some people are like, this is going to change my life. Do you really want it to go to a coin flip? I don't know.

I'm so competitive. I couldn't do it now that I think about it. I'm too competitive because I would be so mad if I was in a position and I did it and I went home and that's my that's it. I'm leaving it. But isn't that awesome that it makes you think? Because you know what it does? We start talking about it. And it keeps survivor on the tongue.

Would you do it? You know, I think that I would do it in the circumstance where I was the Rick Devin's, where I was like, hey, I'm probably going home tonight. So instead of, like, I would play my shot in the dark and that would be one in six. And so this is one, this is one in two. So if it's looking bleak for me, sure, I'll flip the coin. Exactly. Yeah, I was going home anyway. Exactly.

And the strategic side would be, don't let certain people flip it. Yeah. It's almost like at what point do you go, Rob, I got to step up and do this, dude, because we can't have someone so hit it. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, well, you don't do it. Like, it's almost like, and then the one person you want to flip it's never going to flip it. Right.

Well, you know what I mean? You know, we have this a lot in Survivor. We had it in this episode where it's, hey, the one person we don't want to go do the visit the other tribe is Carter and he's the one who grabs it. I don't know if you had that at all in Survivor 48 of like, hey, who do we not want to go on the journey? and then that person ends up volunteering. I mean, think about it. It was like, you know, whenever there was a moment where there were certain players

and we had a strategic plan, it was like, oh, who's going on this? And they'd raise their hand. We'd all raise our hand. Like, oh, well. And even on 50, what was funny at the end, there was players you didn't want to win and what you know this game won up.

The second you say it on the island, hey, guys, all that we can't do is have this person. It's like you almost, and every time that person wins, I mean, even in the finals, right, for Somotion on 50, we all said it. We're like, no problem, man. Like, we just can't win it.

And we got to win this show. We got to, I'm like, I'm with you. I'm with you. We go to like how many balls and I'm thinking, and she crushes it? And I'm thinking, of course, because we said, we should have been like, Rizzo can't win. But it's like, in Survivor, when you say that, it's almost like, you're going to get it. Or they can't find an idol. Is that the Survivor gods or do you think you put that idea in your own head?

great again question i think what it really is though is that um when you're on look at it the other way when you're you know when you're it's not going well for the most part you're like man i think there's this level of intensity yeah where you know i have to win versus like i really want to win there's a difference yeah and i do think you can like spark that up to where you Jordan Game 6, you're like, this is it. There's no other option. And I think you either crush it or you don't or I have to find an idol. There's this, I don't want to go home.

So I think that we put it on it when they know, the key is not letting them know they're in that spot. Yeah. You know? I think it's mental. Yeah, no, I can relate because that in the end of my first survivor season, there was one person like, okay, this person just can't win the immunity. And guess what? Guess what happened? You'll never guess. You know?

They won it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They won a couple and then they won the show. Ream Daily wanted to ask you, hey, Joe, why are people quitters? Oh, my gosh. You served me up with that. Okay, so. Ream Daily would never quit. Ream Daily had all the opportunities in the world to walk away from the edge of extinction and didn't. I know. I know. Okay, for one, I will say this. I feel like, and I'll relate it to my job at fire service, anything in life, there's certain people where that's just not an option, right? But we say that. I think when you have put yourself in a position where on the daily, your mind functions on a level where you go, look, I'm going to put myself in an uncomfortable situation and get comfortable. being uncomfortable, whether that's, whether that's your job, whether that's your family life. When you get used to that mindset, you're prepared for those moments.

And I just feel like in the walks of life that when you're given and out and you have taken that out before, you do it more than once, or you've been raised in an environment where maybe that's just not it, I feel like it opens the door for you to quit. But here's the real reason. Here's my answer to that question. I think people quit because they're why. The reason why they're doing, they didn't, in my opinion, they didn't have that like conversation with himself and pick a why for that reason.

Like, what's my why? If your why is weak, when it comes time, fill in the blank, you'll fold every time. So my answer is, why do people quit? they don't have a strong enough why. Yeah. That's the point blank. Like I don't, because if your why is your kids, I feel like you would. If you're staying for your kids, you're going to die Trump.

So I think your why isn't strong enough when you're. It's such a good point. I didn't really think about that, especially if your why is some sort of clout of, hey, I'm not here for the right reasons. And that, you know, in your survivor story, you know, the reason why that you were doing that was always very clear and very no way. Thanks, man. Thanks. And you know what's crazy about this is so this episode I got Tyrion. We lost my sister on the 6th. So just the other day was the anniversary. And it brought up

all this emotion. And I wasn't joking. Like I really did go there for her. And and and why I bring that up is that's not how you have to play or why you went on. But it was such a deep, seated piece. Bob, I didn't care what anyone. said you would have i never i wasn't going to leave and and when i saw that you know injury i thought man unfortunately i feel like maybe he didn't tap into something that's almost off-limits to talk about like don't you ever talk about this because that's what you know what i mean it's it's that sensitive that you almost cry talking about it yeah you're why and and when it's i'm not saying this is why but if it's about

on TV, podcast, whatever, Survivor will put it in front of you and be like, yeah, did you really want this? And so will life, right? So, and I'll relate it to myself, like got a divorce and we reconciled after three years. You don't do that if your why isn't strong. Do you know what? There's a ton of reasons in between then where you're like, what are we doing? Yeah.

And so I think that your why has to be huge. And I encourage other players, make your why big. even if your why is just winning money. Make it, it better be legit. Yeah. Right. You know, Joe, we were getting ready for this podcast. And, you know, of course, I know your story from Survivor, but I, you know, I really,

I had done some looking up into, like, the work that you've done to pass the law in California. And, uh, I learned a little bit more about your story and your sister. and I really was just taken aback of how incredible it is, like this law that I don't think that people may really even know what you were involved in. But, and I'll let you talk about it, but that it really changes the way that any sort of domestic violence cases are investigated. And there's a checklist. That's right. And I got me emotional. Thank you for, thank you, Rob.

That was really kind of you to say that. And I struggled. I told my wife this, I said, I don't think people realize like the win for me was this moment. So it took us years to get SB 989, Joanna's law, that other states across the country now are adopting. And what it is, is it increases the regulations and protocols for, basically stage suicide.

So what it means is that if you are involved in a situation where someone has passed and there's a history of domestic violence, it has to be investigated as a homicide. That's massive because right now if someone passes, they don't have to investigate it as a homicide. So there's a whole and these checklists that now are provided for first responders, family members, cops, firemen, fire people, you know, personnel, it all allows this, so no one will ever be in a spot where you know it's not suicide and it was staged to pass a law. It took four years, Rob. Yeah.

It took four years. So that was pretty cool. I really, I wasn't, I wasn't familiar with the particulars of the case. You know, obviously I knew that you were mourning your sister, but it really was really eye-opening to learn more about that. And I really encourage people to go watch that 48-hour documentary that was about that, because I can't imagine what you and your family went through and how frustrating of an experience all of this must have been. But I love that you were able to channel that for so much positivity. Thanks, buddy.

And I say this to you because it's also hard because when you go on the show, can you imagine like that we would have been one of hundreds and thousands of people that just will unfortunately never get the justice they need yeah and this show gave the platform now that I hope I truly do hope Rob and people like yourself who talk about it even you your platform's huge doing that I'll be shedding some tears when we get off this this podcast because I don't even think you realize when you say that how many people will be affected that did didn't know me. They're like, oh, and then look into it.

And you know what I mean? Like, it just- I'm embarrassed. I'm sure that it was said on the show, but I don't think I really ever processed it on, you know, and I feel like that there's a little bit of like a knee-jerk of like, okay, here's another backstory. Here's another backstory on Survivor. And just like watching that, I was just like, I couldn't believe that that was what the

story was. Thanks, man. Yeah, that was a tough go. And it also shows to everybody how you go on the show. I wasn't trying to do that. But it just, it starts going. And again, four years, people ask like how you did it. And think about this, Rob, and not to drag it out, is think about my mom.

And any parent that loses a child that no one heard you for 10 years. It was, oh, yeah. And we're going, this didn't go down the way that they're saying it went down. And to now have a platform like Survivor, that's why I'm indebted to people like yourself and everyone involved with the show because it doesn't get heard. Because now you have a microphone. And people are like, oh, let's look into that. And that's how 48 hours found us was they saw the show. Yeah.

How does that California law get passed into other states? Is there a national version of it or does every state have to adopt the Joanna's law? So they, yes and no. So they, they're certain states, they, they pick up the language of it. And other, there's a way to maybe change. If you wanted it to be a Natalie's law, like there's ways to do that portion, but the law, the 10 factors that you need, an alliance for hope really helped with this too. Yeah.

They pick up the meat of it. And then you can adjust the name to that. But the law is now being, the exact law is there for a reason. It's being picked up already by four other states. And hopefully here before we know it, it'll be across the entire country. And it's just like a common sense thing of like, okay, if this happens, like, okay, that if these factors are here, like you need to be treating this like it is a homicide investigation.

It's just like it makes so much sense. Correct. And remember, there's religious domestic violence, there's financial, there's all these things that happen. And what this law does is when. something's not right, you actually have something to stand on. And what's crazy about it is even at work, there's been calls where we're running 30 calls a day. And somebody goes, hey, man, they said this was a suicide, Joe, but based, and it's in our, our tablets now to where they look up the law.

It has the list. And they go, hey, there's eight out of nine things present. And sure enough, they do it and it works. And it gets people to justice. So isn't that awesome? That's awesome, man. I've got something else to ask you about, Joe. This is Brandon Donlin pulled this.

He wanted to know about the fan meetup you had at Panda Express. How much heat can you handle the flyer asks to come meet Joe Hunter? How did your fan event go at Panda Express? That's actually pretty cool. How that happened was wild, but it was great. They were such a great market for that. And being a firefighter, you have this instinct of like, I can take it. And no joke, that new sauce, I went in there going like, I don't even, I'm not even, I don't care.

And I put an extra amount on. And you know what's funny is you know when you kind of cough. So my wife's next to me. And I thought, like instant lava. I'm sweating. I'm like, I've got to use a restroom. So I act tough, but like, there's no way. I love Tabasco.

I'm a Tabasco guy. Okay. And I sat there and literally, I'm going to say, I can handle the heat in a fire, but in my belly, I'm like a two or a three now. It got me. That's a good pull. I was sweating too. You know, I want to ask.

So in the Survivor 50 finale, and it kind of got a little, obscured because it was the finale and the reunion and everything. They brought back a family visit. And it very quietly went into the survivor finale. But one of the memorable things about it was your quote, where you referred to your wife as my hot, tall-ass wife. You know, it's, okay. So I tell people this.

My wife is six, seven in heels. Yes. Okay. And then the kids. say six seven six seven i'm going to argue this most people hold hands like this yeah right i hold hands like this i'm up i mean i'm reaching up like hey come here and and most people have to say things like if you're with your person i have to consider words like put me down i don't how many men how many people have to say that when they go put me down if you get a good

good hug. And so when I saw her, I literally thought, I'm like, oh, people are bringing in the breakfast. I'm fortunate enough to know that's what it is, hence this uncertainty. So I go, sweet, let's go, and eat. And I'm like, man, there's a tall production, because I know the torso. And I'm like, why are their belly button up to that person's eyebrows? And I thought, that's a tall ass. And I thought, That's my beautiful wife. And that's how it came out. I was literally thinking, man, that's a tall-ass, that's my beautiful wife. So they captured it, and I had to.

It's like a hallmark card. It starts with, you know, I love you. Happy Valentine's Day. My tall-ass beautiful wife. And there's a, there's a tall man going. Yeah. That's me. I may try on my, I don't know, I might get slapped if I say my hot short-ass wife.

Yeah. It works with tall. It's hard the other way. And again, and again, my argument is just try to look for someone where if I, you know, if I tell my wife to put me down. Yeah. If that's a phrase, then you have the right to say my tall-ass beautiful wife. That's what. And I'm not kidding. When I looked over in the boat, I literally was like, damn, who's, I think there's. I think there. eye level with this person's belly button. And that's what, that's what I was thinking, that's a tall. And I'm like, they're gorgeous. And I was like, yes. Yeah. That's my tall last year.

It's stuck with people. I know it really did. And I'm being honest. It wasn't meant to be. She knows. I'm always like, when she puts on heels, you know, like I, if I'm, I'm always like, hello. And I, to me, you know, I'm like, and everyone else is intimidated. I'm like, you're missing the boat.

we're hiking and I'm tired, I can be carried without it hurting anybody. Many can't. I'm proud of this. Tommy Guam wanted to ask you, how will Brady's thumb injury affect grip strength competitions? We know that you can win that challenge where you're winding the thing back up and holding it on. Do you think that this will present an issue for Brady? Not at all. First of all, I love it in the most simple.

He's a maniac. And the reason why I say he's a maniac is I, he's a middle linebacker, he's a fullback. And I keep relating to football. I played him a whole life is when I say he's a maniac, it won't because he's too, he can like, he has that gear that skips and just won't stop. And in the real reality of it is, grip strength, no joke is so much, it's just, it's not an immediate lift that's like, ugh, it's just a slow, this. sucks. I think he'll push past it. I think in the palm, I think in the thumb, you're done. The tip of the finger, he's fine. He just can't point at people. It's a little ugly. He's always going to have that wound that he can make up later in life. Like I defeated a lion or, you know,

a shark bit me. But he'll be fine. If they do it. And that does a football player, he's a wrestler. These wrestlers are all like, hey, like, like, like, hey, give me a shot. They're whatever. Yeah, I think he would have eaten it if he could have. And like, it'll just regrow. Like, I think he's fine. Did you see what he did with these? Put it like, it turned it into like a, put it into like a plastic.

It turned into like a necklace. Yeah. And I think maybe that's, as long as people don't try to recreate that. And that's the new survivor thing and leave a, yeah. Don't do that. He'll be fine on the grip. Yeah. They used to have to tell kids that would like bevis and butthead.

Like, hey, don't do, don't copy what you see on the show. Right? A good pull. And you go, hey, man, by the way, like the A team isn't real. Like, don't try this apart. Like, you know, the fall guy. It's like, don't do this. And here he goes, chopping.

And now you watch, now they're going to be like, no more machetes. Yeah. Well, Mike DeVal says if you were Brady's tribe mate, would you have revoked his hatchet privileges by now? Did you see him, like, smashing the oar? Oh, oh, what you do now is now you have a supervisor. So when you want to use the hatchet, I bring the hatchet open. I bring it, I put it in your hand, and together, now the, like, all four hands, we're like,

yeah, I go one alligator, two alligator, three alligator. It's like my kids. They ever, if I see them swinging it like that, an axe or a blade, all you do is you go, hey, deep breath, deep breath. And what's great about that now is not only should it be, you might have to give him like a rubber one for a little bit and make him pretend. Yeah. and then evaluate the swing.

You get the rubber hatchet. It's kind of like on other movies where it's like a wooden gun. He gets the wooden gun for a while. Is that in the firefighter trading? Do you start with the rubber axe? I wish we could. I guarantee there's this, though. There's some people that you go, hey, look, you're great.

You're a good person, but like no gum and walking at the same time. So it's like you start with that. You go, hey, you chop one at a time. and in the fire service you go, you don't have a rubber axe, you just can't use an axe. And then we elevate to it. That's the goal.

So you mentioned your kids, do they watch Survivor with you? They do. And we, I struggled with it for a minute because I didn't want them to get caught up in the negativity of it. Like the like,

you have to be dramatic, you have to be this. We watch it from a standpoint point of, I try to point out the extremes. Look at how this player plays this way. This player over here plays this way and all are accepted. But they just love the challenges. Yeah.

That's all we talk about. That's all they want is like the challenges. And did this count? Did that count? So they love the challenge. That's truly what it is. You know, I watch, I have two boys. They're 13 and my younger son's going to be 11 next month.

And, you know, my younger son, my older son, he really follows it, he gets very into it. But my younger son, he really doesn't follow it super closely. But when Rob was talking about leaving the game, he was like, he like immediately he's like, bro is trying to quit. Bro wants to quit.

Like he was like not buying at all the injury. And he really, he didn't see the last episode. He just like walked into the room and he's like instantly just from like the context clues. And he was like, he was like, bro's trying to quit he doesn't quit he hasn't been an injury and isn't that and then we got to learn the language because it's also like like what do they say um like for real or seriously and i i get

these like are you for serious like for real for real life that's what it was like in real life is he quitting and i'm thinking isn't it just to quit and i think that younger group like you said to your to your boy's point um kids can also be so raw it's just what it is and then bang. So it's also like, okay, fair. And they have you for an example. Well, I think also if you're a kid, it's like, hey, like I have a temperature, I can't go to school.

Like, I think it's a very relatable thing for them. Without a doubt. And I don't think that I think what's shocking about now is that doesn't happen all the time. Like it really doesn't, though. Yes, we could point out the times that it has happened. But I do think why it grabs you is, you're ready for the drama or the injury maybe because injuries have happened, but the kind of

default of putting it in your hands, truly in your hands, you weren't removed, but it's in your hands. I think that grabs people because you kind of go, what? And that's also why it has such a shocking and polarizing reaction to kids especially like, what? He's quitting and they just, they can grind in on it. Like, yeah, like actually, that's what my kids are like actually. Like actually, And then A while 214 says Did Carter intentionally

or accidentally missed the boat? Did you think that he was planning on staying no matter what or he was leaving and then he just missed his ride? I think he just, I don't think he intentionally.

I think there was a lot going on. I think he missed it. I really do. I think that it was, and I mean, I guess every argument of course he missed it. I really do think as you know, there is so much going on in real time and you're trying to process this.

You have something that you don't want people to see. You're adjusting to this new dynamic. You're trying to figure out what's going to happen at Tribal. You're trying to figure out all this in your head. I don't think he, no offense, I don't think he had the strategic mindset of playing that out enough to be like, I'm going to miss this. And when I miss it, here's the benefit. No offense, Carr, I did. I don't think that he strategically had that laid out.

you'd have to do that before you got there. My plan is, and you would talk about it. I don't think that was positive. Yeah. I wonder if maybe he used the excuse of like the guy's ringing the bell, okay, oh, I got to go check the oars. And then ultimately then felt like, okay, well, now I'm just going to go back and say the guy left without me.

And like, I just think it's a better story. And whether it's a better story for him or a better story for Survivor. I think that maybe that's the explanation. And I agree. You hit it on the head. I think that whether it's for him or Survivor, I don't think that because this is also new and it's a new error and everything's going on. And you know how it is in the beginning of the game.

There is so much more emotion in the beginning of the game that you are processing that even every day that passes. I do think that it was just a, I don't think it was prethought out that if this happens. Because he couldn't have seen that come. I don't think he did it on purpose. Okay. And then Joe, I want to go full circle. You talked about this in the beginning,

but I just wanted to do that here's something that you shared of you on the set here in your other career. Here's you on the set here with Tyler Perry. And what is this fake snow? No, I can't say much. about where that was. That's rain. Rain. That's rain. That's real. And you know what's crazy about that is that man right there in that

environment, Rob, is so next level. It is so different than I thought my life would be. And I'm so grateful because it also attaches you to a group and a world of individuals that are so talented and it's so different than anything I could have fathed and look at that right and to me what's crazy about it the joy I do get a little bit is when people that's their goal I'm going on

to do that and the fact that it just happened and you'll never see me post a lot of pictures of us like that because I'm also trying to make it respect his privacy you need to have a very and and also understand that's a that's a big name right That's also not why I'm doing it, but I am proud. So there's moments where I just want to thank him, but that's why you don't see a lot of, hey, hey, hey, it's there. Yeah. But it's also not the goal is just to, like, look at me. It really is thankful.

I'm, I think I'm so, I'm just so dang thankful. I get that from you. And he reached out because of the, essentially the even moment as just a like good job. and then I'm so unaware of everything and I just was like, oh man, and then we just became outstanding friends and then the rest is history. You know, I'm a little surprised.

And again, I don't have my finger on the pulse of everything, especially once we get outside of the Survivor world. But I would have thought, like, Tyler Perry was, has so many things going on. Like, I didn't know he's actually on set with you. I thought it was kind of like, hey, yeah, Mark Burnett has like a million shows. and is not super involved.

Oh. I'll tread lightly because this is new territory for me. Sure. Here's what I will say. When you start watching a movie, so you watch big movies, and he has a ton of big movies, what I will say, which is so,

Rob, it's like watching a genius perform their craft, and he has the ability on cue. So not only develop these stories, when you want to talk about all the angles you see on TV, so you and I talking, the angle of you talking, back to me, the undertone, the overhead, the car, the shoe, he can do that at such a rapid rate and so beautifully, he is involved in every step of everything he does. There is not a moment where it's just, and the other people around him are so talented too, so it's not that, but it's just this machine. It's like Jeff. perfect analogy. It'd be like saying there's a couple episodes where Jeff just doesn't do tribal. It's not going to happen because no one can do it like him, but he has everyone around in helping, right?

Yeah. This big machine. But he is all in every aspect of it in the best way. And I can't stop talking about because, Rob, what's crazy is I can't wait for you to see it. And it's definitely not just a cameo kind of thing. I can't wait to get your feedback. Well, I was, I thought, okay, well, maybe this is just like, oh, just going to be in like one episode in the background.

Like, I didn't realize you're like a, like a real actor now. I guess so. Was that hard for you? Because you talked about how, you know, okay, well, I have, you know, issues with the puzzles. And I don't know if you've, you've called yourself dyslexic. I don't know if that's actual. Is that difficult to learn the lines? and I'm going to be honest with you.

That's a real thing. I didn't like, and the reason why, for the record, I didn't bring that up going into it is I was so fearful that that was going to be the narrative. Like he's just saying that because he. Then I thought, I'm not doing it justice to other people that struggle.

I also don't want to be ashamed of. Yeah. So what I do have is like compensating. And so with the script, um, yeah, I, I sat there and would read,

if it took you three minutes, just took me an hour. And so I would, and back that up. When you have a good why, I'm like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to miss my shot. And I'm also not going to disrespect someone giving me an opportunity. And there's a friendship there. And there's all these things that you watch what I can do when I set my mind to it. Yeah. So if I got to get up at three in the morning for this huge monologue and that's what I'm going to do. And then I had a great friend, my Italian chief, Wade, um, was amazing in reading, lines. And we would just sit there and like, is this what I'm how I'm seeing it? Yep. And we would just

and I'm just going to spend hours doing hours. And and and but are you, but isn't that, that's awesome. It's like if that's the hardest thing I got to do. Yeah. It's a blessing. So, you know, the show's about firefighters, correct? And so in any way, are you, when you're on the set, are people asking you like, hey, would it, would it really be like this? Would this be really be like, are you consulting also? Correct. So here's what's a crazy piece of it. It has my sister. So it's essentially all my stories from work and life and my sister. And you're going to see the person playing me. You're going to see the person playing my mom. He took all, Tyler, took all of this and made it

into this beautiful. I mean, imagine your stories over 20 years of your life. So in the fire service, all of these different stories, all of these different calls, all these different people and condensed it. into one firehouse and went to a level that you never seen. And so I didn't know this at all, Joe. I didn't know that this was, the show is also about you. It is based all on those stories. And then he took it to another level. It's all inner, like inner woe than width.

You'll see. That's not what I thought at all. I thought that there was, that Tyler Perry was already doing a show about firefighters and said, oh, you know, who'd be a great firefighter, this guy from Survivor? I didn't know that you also, that, all right, well, we have to check it out now.

So funny story is, and so first off, it spun into that. And then his mind is so beautiful. He has a way of making this a thing, and he did. And really, truly, how it started is I come home one day and we're talking again. I call him when I get off work. I'm just talking to my buddy. And I go, we're talking about a really horrific call. It's not appropriate to share, but it's a horrific call involving a child.

And I come through the door and I'm just telling them about it because you need people to vent to. So I'm like, man, like da-da-da-da-da-da-da. My daughter comes up and is like, Daddy, and we're talking about the tooth fairy. So I immediately go, hold on. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And she's like, it's $20 now. And I'm like, $20 for a tooth. I'm like, I'm going to do a dog.

And we have this back and forth. And I go right back to it. I'll be right there, baby. He just was what? And then he knows my divorce, my sister, my, I don't hold any punches. with my mistakes, my, and so he then overnight was like, check this out. And I'm all, what's this? And it's just this, here it is.

It's all. And he had added all. And then it's like, okay, well, tell me about this call and tell me about this person at work. And tell me about this dynamic. And then in the fire service, there's so much going on with divorce, alcoholism, depression. Yeah. So there's all this. And he was able to just boom.

And then he took it to another level by adding all these. storylines and weaving them together, and it is going to hit like you never, just because of him. It's just awesome. It's awesome. It's awesome. Here, one more thing with the firefighters, just to go back to Survivors, firefighters have done so well on Survivor historically between people like yourself and obviously Jeremy, Tom Westman, Keith Nail. I'm sure that there's others that I'm missing to.

Is there anything more than, hey, that these are usually, you know, strong guys of a certain age? Is there anything that you think that's specific about firefighting that makes for good survivor players? My joking side is like, I want every police officer on the planet to replay what you just said, and I want them all to replay that. He did quote, firefighters were taking home the crown on them. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you know this about me. My dad was a police officer. So nothing against... Let him hear that.

So you have Tony. I'm just trying to think historically police officers haven't done as well on Survivor. So here's what I think with this dynamic. And I joke about it, but here's the reality of it. I think, one, people underestimate how little you sleep. And when I say sleep... And Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, too. She rocked it.

Yes. But the sleep part of it, people underestimate so much, is that that puts you in a realm that's just affects everything. And we live in a state of never sleeping. My station, for example, we're running 28, 25, 30 calls a day. So you don't, we're one of the busiest. And I don't think people understand. So we're grilled for that, too.

We're in a position where you have been through so much trauma. you have to cope all the time with being able to focus on a task in the most chaotic, horrific situations, that when you break it down to just these relationships, your brain goes up and you get numb. It's like when you see a hand get cut off, you go, and once you're there in this job, it's relatable to survivor because you can process things at such a level that you can put it in its category. This is a level one. This is a level two. This is a level three.

And there's a huge social piece to be in the fire. You have to be able to talk to people. You have to be able to talk to a little kid. You have to be able to bring people in. You have to be able to defuse a situation. And you're about community. So there's this sense of what? You're living with these people for days at a time.

You understand what it's like with the 20-year-old kid, the weird engineer who's been hired for 50 years, the chief that doesn't want to listen to you, that's egocentric. And having us all work under one roof for 48, 72, 96 hours, weeks at a time. You've seen it all. So Survivor is a perfect alignment and always will be for the fire service. And I think that the firefighter comes with all those good things, whereas I think the police officer, I think, at times can also be like a little too much like asking questions and can be like a little too like, okay, I'm investigating too much and maybe can have like a little bit of a barrier to some of those social bonds that you're talking about.

Where as a firefighter, you don't necessarily have that as much. Yeah, we're never there to investigate. We're never there to, and by the way, they have a very difficult job. But where our mindsets are different. Right. I'm not looking for what you did wrong. I'm looking on how to solve it. Yeah.

I'm not looking to have a stereotype in my head of like, hey, typically in this situation, this is what we do. I am built to solve the problem. Yeah. The problem is already happening when you get there. Correct. Correct. I mean, which is also the case with police officers.

But I think that there's like a little bit more of like the police officer. is like scanning more so in a way that sometimes can be, um, create more problems. Agreed. Agreed. And it's a, they're, they're up against the tough odds. Like I have so much respect for police officers. I just think that in the game of Survivor, um, firefighters are a little more geared to that. Yeah.

There's a little bit more like the, the firehouse, uh, like social aspect, uh, makes sense. All right. Well, Joe, this was such a nice chat to have. I'm so glad that we did this. I'm so glad that you were up for it. And this was, I thought it went so well. Is there anything else?

Do you want to tell people? A couple things. One, I want to remind people of just how good you are, Rob. I really mean that and your ability to talk to all these different type of players and a real host, a really good person that loves Survivor and loves the community is you, because you allow us the space to talk, you serve us, these great compliments, and you mean it. And I think so many times in this. world it's not a positive thing and you really are talented at what you i've said it to you before i mean it you're one of the best in the biz yeah thank you for this is what keeps us coming back man at these conversations and i will also say um to fans you know always if the person's willing to bring

you on and talk about the hard things um give him a shot you know and try to be kind to those players until you give them a shot to hear so this season be kind until you get a chance to hear it from them from you and then make your decision. So at the end of the day, tune in for where there's smoke and let me know what you think. And I'm going to try to represent Survivor always. Okay. All right. We'll look forward to hearing when the official release date comes out for that.

So best of luck with all of that. For everybody else, thank you so much for joining us. Looking forward to hearing what you all have to say. And we've got a lot more coming up this week. I thought this was such a great episode and such a fun start for the season. And so we'll have plenty of more content coming up to talk about episode three as 51. Take care, everybody. Have a good one.

Bye.