RHAP: We Know Survivor - JT Thomas & Stephen Fishbach Talk Coach Wade | The Survivor 50 Files

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Today, Brandon talks to JT Thomas and Stephen Fishbach about Coach Wade's time on Survivor.

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Talk about the whole journey of Coach Wade. And I am joined by a legend, two legends, not even a legend, a legendary alliance of two people, maybe the most famous alliance of two that doesn't have four children, not the Marianos, not Boston Robin Amber. It's Steven and JT. Guys, how are you? Great. Thanks for having us.

Thank you. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. You know, pleasure to talk to you, JT, on the Zoom or the screen anyway. Yeah. JT, how are you? You know, it's been a minute since you've been in the Rob is a Podcast sphere. I'm sure a couple of years since the last podcast appearance. How are things going down there? JT, how are you? It's been a minute since you've been in the Rob is a Podcast sphere. I'm sure a couple of years since the last podcast appearance.

How are things going down there? They're good. Everything's good, man. I'm living the dream in Alabama. Love it. Love it. Are you still keeping up? Not my dream as somebody else is surely.

Yeah, I keep up with it some. I don't follow it religiously like I used to, but I try to watch. My mom does, and she's always calling me, like, hey, did you see last night? I was like, no, not really. She explains it to me. So I stay caught up pretty good. Brandon, can you just give an update to JT

on like your experience on Survivor just in case he missed you? I'm not sure if he was able to catch you. I think I actually do remember his experience now. What do you, JT, remember? No, but I just wanted to hear Brandon. OK. I'm just curious how you remember that.

I'm more interested in JT. If you remember anything, give me what you got. I had a lot longer hair last time. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's tough. Yeah. What do I give you?

What I remember of your season? Sure. Or just of me. Tell me about me. Tell me about me. Well, I think if I remember of your season? Sure. Or just of me. Tell me about me. Well, I think I remember if I remember your season correctly, you were your ally quit. Did she not quit? Was it a girl? She did. And like how it ended immediately. Yeah, that's right. And you were having a tough time yourself. I remember if I remember you were contemplating quitting and then she all of a sudden quit. Is that right?

No, so I was talking her out of quitting. And then I think that enticed her to be like, you know what? I'm good. I'm ready to get out of here. But I was, you know, I was having a tough time, but I was, I was remembering, you know, the guys I used to watch back in the day, which you too, I was like, I got it. You know, Brandon was the only person outside of my immediate family who was rooting for me to win the finals

of token chains. That's why I have him to moderate. There was people rooting for you, I'm sure. If you would have blew it so bad to final travel, you know, you probably would have won. You literally, you let me beat you in speech writing. That's what that's where you have done. Yeah, yeah. Didn't feel so great about that. That's probably why you kept on getting my job opportunities. I was stunk afterwards. All these speech writing clients. That's my whole moment. I'm paying to beat Stephen and talking.

Wow. Listen, this is again, this will be so much fun for everybody to hear. But you guys were used to starting your journey, you know, 15 years ago in token jeans and you're in the airport, you're getting ready to leave and you see this guy, this figure, this long haired guy who you would later learn as coach. You know, JT, tell me your first impression of coach. Okay, my very first impression of coach was Steven Seagal. I was like, this guy looks just like Steven Seagal.

He was wearing a long duster robe. I mean, had the tattoo showing, hair ponytail. I was like, this guy looks just like Steven Seagal. He was wearing a long duster robe. I mean, had the tattoo showing hair ponytail. I was like, this guy looks just like Steven Seagal. So I was thinking he's gonna be a character. I thought he was gonna be like a really physical, tough, you know, hard-nosed guy, but he turned out to be quite the opposite. I mean, he's really nice guy.

You know, softer guy, like just very genuine, nice guy, Coach was. He was bigger too then. Like I don't think coach has ever gotten as big as he was right before token sheets. He was like really like just like big you know he's like he lost like 50 pounds on our season I think he lost close to 50 pounds and he got like good place. Yeah but he by far lost more than anybody. He was a really big guy.

He also um yeah and he would like carry himself as he walked with just like such, like, you know, just like really like a lot of gravitas about him as he walked through the airport. JT, on the other hand, did not, you, you like, when this was something, I'm not, not select them, this into a token change reminiscence. But one of the things I remember about you is like, you were the only person to manage to like score a snack in that airport. I feel like you got like a diet coke or something

or a coke and then like there was only you. That sounds very true. I can't remember but that's probably definitely happened. I am uh yeah I'm a risk taker when it comes to like vending machines and whatnot. I'll slip by and get one. I don't know but uh yeah coach was I was I was trying to make eye contact with him early on because I felt like we could bond. We had a connection and we ended up not being on the same tribe. And I said, well, maybe if it comes down to it, maybe I, you know, he'll still be open. And I always kind of made eye contact with him at the challenges, hoping, you know, if

we were to make the merge, he would work with us. It worked out. It really did. Yeah, it really did. Like it was like coach even said at the time, like, you know, I just felt so connected to JT, you know, because of all that eye contact that they were making. I was my eyelashes at him, you know, were you, Steven, not making eye contact with anybody in the pregame or were you, no, I was with everyone.

I mean, I thought that, you know, you're all kind of like, but I was truly, I was like, I really was like making eye contact with anybody in the pregame or were you? No, I was with everyone. I mean, I thought that, you know, you're all kind of like, but I was truly, I was like, I really was like, being eye contact with Carolina. I was like that girl, like I got that one like this. She and I and like that did nothing for me. You know, didn't even like didn't even make an ally. Like I really should have. I was I effing the wrong the wrong people. And people may already know this.

They literally asked me pregame like right before we started. You've seen these people you're going to play with who is the one person you don't think will be able to make it out here. And I was like, oh my God, it's that guy. And I pointed to you, Stephen. And I was like, I'll never make it. You'll never make it. And then lo and behold, he becomes my best friend on the show.

Like, I'll never answer another question like that because that it almost set it up. You know, it was, I was pretty jacked too before token jeans, like compared to what I am now, the token jeans coach though, you did definitely did not walk like you're not putting off that, uh, no, I sat next to coach on like the, on like the bus into, um, into Brazil and into Brazil, the bus into Brazil like the bus into into Brazil and into Brazil the bus into Brazil the bus Until like token chains into the token chains area and like he just like sat so like, you know firm I was like nervous sitting next to him, you know, it's like sitting there like I'm like a Titan Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about

Was there what was the conversation like about coach on now the Jalapal camp while the game is started? What are the observations you're making about coach while the game's happening just from afar? Did we know that he was absurd at that point? I don't know if we did. No, we had no idea. We were still thinking he was a physical threat and like really thinking he was, you know, gonna be a force to be reckoned with. And he is a great, savvy player, but we were, we had no idea what we were in store for until we merged and he started telling us these Amazon stories and all this crazy stuff, you know, we had no idea what to believe. What to think. Yeah, we knew that like he and Brendan were, we thought that we somehow we correctly assumed and maybe something happened at a challenge

that there was like a rivalry between Brendan and and coach because that's why we kept on sending Brendan to exile because we thought why we kept on sending Brendan to exile because we thought that it would like weaken his hold on the Tribe. I don't know but like yeah we didn't we just thought that he was like a big strong guy out there. I mean like everyone was saying you know Last of the Mohicans, Steven Seagal, like you know the Glimmer Man, you know we were all that was definitely like the touchstone. Yeah as soon as we merged we knew that Coach was wanting to be the leader and Brendan was naturally the leader of the Yeah, as soon as we merged, we knew that Coach was wanting to be the leader and Brendan was naturally the leader

of the tribe at the time. So we were definitely gonna exploit that. But Coach is such a good guy and he's the leader kind of guy. He's a people person. You really don't really get to know Coach on our season until after the season because he's just portrayed as a villain, I guess you could say but

he's such a nice guy he just loves to talk a lot. He's like a really sweet guy like that didn't come across. He's like a sweetheart. My mom you can take him to dinner with anybody he's such a sweet guy I mean he'll never be mean to anyone even if they're mean to him like Taj a few times was ready to body slam coach and we were like Taj just, just, just hold on, just hold on. And you know, coach grew on me. I mean, he's just a great guy. He never got sour about anything. He's a good guy.

I remember like after token chains, a lot of like people, like I remember like one guy in particular was like, I'm going to confront coach at this fan event. I'm like, okay, like, you know, you do you, um, coaches like a jerk. And then, you know, he, the guy, then afterwards the guy was like, oh yeah. And he told me, gave me my new nickname and the Alliance. And, you know, like, he's just like, people were like, just so charmed by him. You know, everyone came up to him afterwards,

like wanting their nickname and the like warrior Alliance. You know, and then he, he delivered. He really gave everybody a nickname. Yeah, that's just it. He'll be there. I mean, he'd love to more than marry. Do you think that the people on 50 are gonna have, you know, do you think coaches?

Because when coach went back to heroes versus villains, he went back and he knew already what he was going to call everybody, you know, he had already planned. It was like a little bit too much, you know, like it was like too niche, you know, it was like the third tier sorceress from from Camelot. It was going to like, you know, he was ready with that one. Unfortunately, everyone else's knowledge doesn't go as far as coaches when it comes to games. Well, that's it. But do you think he's going to like come out like hot with like

the dragon slayer stuff, or do you think he's going to kind of like dial that back? I don't think he can do away with it completely. You know, he's going to nickname them. It can't help it. Um, but he'll probably dial it back some. Well, he's one of the first people. And I think of maybe Rupert as the first,

but I think Coach is the first person to then go into his second season, like kind of leaning more into like that character that the show has built for him to be like, I am now, you know, he was a Dragon Slayer before, but now he's like, really, really big. He comes in with with pre-planned things. He's writing little letters on the votes to try to spell out Dragon Slayer, you know. But I don't think that anybody else has done that as effectively as come in with their character as much as he did on that season.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Steven. No, no, no, no, no. I just was clarifying. JT, before you guys leave for Heroes vs. Villains, what was that like in terms of did you know Coach was also going? Were there conversations with people leading up to leaving for Samoa? No, coach and I didn't talk. I found out that coach was going to be there pretty close to when we left, but I didn't reach out to him.

I kind of knew if given the opportunity, coach and I would both be willing to work with each other. We still, you know, we were good friends after after token chains. I was hoping he was going to be on my tribe to be honest honest with you, and he wasn't. But we didn't talk at all. I didn't talk to anybody that I knew was going on the show before the show. But Coach was never a concern. I always knew if Coach and I could work together, we would.

Yeah, we didn't obviously we didn't know it was Heroes Villains, right? It was like all that we just knew. Right. All stars. We didn't know what the theme was. That's right. Yeah. Was there that same camaraderie that now you see like in the current day and and even with the first couple seasons where you guys are hanging out constantly after you guys film Toganchines leading up to Heroes versus Villains really together all the time? We were together a lot. Yeah, I

would say I mean I was with Steven all the time pretty much whatever. I actually moved to Alabama, so that was one reason. That was one reason for sure. And he definitely didn't have any lips hang out with here. Did you move to Alabama? Yeah, for a couple of months. Yeah, it was great. I had a great time. We had so much fun. It was for that. It was it was imprisonment. But he.

Yeah, it was it was. Um, it was just great. I don't know. Like it was like an opportunity. Like I didn't have to be anywhere. And so to get to hang out with my buddy and like, you know, I would say work on the ranch but more like watch him work on the ranch. I think is a more appropriate way of phrasing that. You know, like it was so much fun.

We just like, you know, yeah, you know, live a lot. Live the dream. Before they kicked me out, before I was expelled from the state. At what point JT going into now heroes versus villains, do you know that that is the theme, it was at day one when you get your buffs that you know that it's here versus villains or did that become apparent in the pregame? I think it was like day one. I don't remember knowing how they were splitting us up or anything until we got our bus actually.

Yeah. And then you see, you know, coach and Tyson in the distance, were there the same looks of eye contact that were being given the first time to coach that time as well? Maybe a kind of, I mean, I was definitely throwing them at him like, hey, maybe this time we're working together, you know, I was worried a little bit, maybe Tyson may have some hard feelings, but at the end of the day, there were so many other people to be worried about other than me. I felt like Tyson and Coach were probably had their hands full with their tribe. If we made Merge, I felt like we were definitely working together, you know, or I hope so. And you, JT, spent quite a bit of time with him in the jury after you guys are both booted.

And he's talking, JT, about the Dragons, the band. He's talking about it all the time. Still, it's been a minute. Oh yeah, I see clips of the Dragons that are being posted. He's really propagating the Dragons. He's promised that the Dragons are going to release their first album after he gets back from 50, didn't he? Didn't he say something to that effect? Are you aware that you're going to be releasing an album? Well, I have been contacted a couple times since, but no, no, I was not aware of releasing an album. Actually, I was, I think Norwood reached out, we've done like a picture for the cover of a potential album. This has been probably five or six years ago. I have no idea.

The problem with that is somebody has to really be able to sing and I don't, well, I'm not sure any of us can. We'll have a problem there. Yeah, I just, I recently just got to see coach perform for the first time. He had a show, I'm in New York, JT, so he had a show right down the street from me where he performed with a guy, Ben Katzman, who was a couple seasons ago. And they performed together, you know, coach did sing, he's playing the guitar, he's playing the trumpet, he's doing it all, you know, the guy, he's a, he's a multifaceted guy, you know, they don't lie to you. No doubt. Coach can do anything.

I actually watched him play on TV, of course, but Buffalo Bill's playoff game last year, I think it was last year or the year before, he played the national anthem. That was pretty cool. That was a big deal. Yeah, he's everywhere. You know, he's like, you close your eyes and he's somewhere new. That's two checks on your list. Pennzoil, long may we drive. Offer and say 3125, valid at participating locations only, valid email address required.

Terms apply, see pennzoil.ca slash offer for details. MasterCard is a trademark of MasterCard International Incorporated. Steven, I want to ask you, how did he, how did Coach's like casting, how do you feel that that changed the casting of Survivor after him? I mean, I do think like, you know, to your point about when Coach coming in

for Heroes, Villains, you know, clearly knowing that he was a little bit of a cartoon, not a cartoon, but like a character, a cartoonish character. I do think they kind of like sought that out. And I think actually, like, Randy was like a step in that trajectory, too. I mean, Randy was more just like, you know, he like played the curmudgeonly old man, you know, even more than he is that. Uh, and then I think coach kind of like took that to the next level, but I did, it did seem for certainly for a while afterwards that they were really looking for those like

character types who would play up their kind of absurdity. I mean, Philip Shepard is the obvious successor to coach in a lot of ways. He even had the feather. But I think, and then, you know, there were a lot of other big characters kind of in that like in that mid twenties era. And the way Coach was ahead of his time, because he was like memeing before every, now everyone out there is that they're like memeing, they're like getting their, you know, their little viral moment.

Every one of Coach's moments would have been a viral moment had token chains aired, you know, in today's time. And people still reference that you know the martyr approach the final five of your season of Tocantins and that walk in from Exile Island and the immunity challenge in the fall. JT what do you remember about that? How was that for you? Oh man it was tough you know Steve and I talked about you know we not going to take each other when it comes down to it. But I knew I was taking Steven, so I was like, oh, coaches are really not going to like this.

We all knew pretty much we were going to vote him out if we could to follow our challenge. So to send him to exile right before he's voted out, it was almost like he made me feel sorry for him a lot. But as soon as Steven and I were on our way to the reward, I forgot about that part. We were so excited. But Steven was like, you have to take me, Jet. I was like, I'm taking you, Steven.

Yeah. There's a scene where you're like, you're like, I promise you, Steven, I'm taking you. You know, do you promise me? And I'm like, yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, I know you would have taken me. Do you, but like, do you remember when he fell on that you know, he actually was doing pretty well on that like hold yourself up challenge, you know, for all that coach gets

crap about, you know, not being as physical as maybe we imagined he would be. He did very well in challenges and not just the pinball wizard challenge. But you know, like, and then he had that like classic ball or he screams out, you know, oh, do you do you remember that? Like, yeah, you know, like what did you think of that? Don't do that to me, Steven. I mean, I thought. No, no, but like, I mean, I sort of took it sincerely. You know, I remember like running over to him. I really see in your face and I was like, oh, God. Yeah. Don't look at me. I guess you also were winning immunity at that point. It's not like you were, you know. I was, you know, I just put

the attention on him. Uh, I got, you know, made him feel okay for, for, I was just glad he failed. So, so the challenge was over, but, um, I don't know. I feel like it kind of hurt his pride a little bit. He may have played it up a little bit, of course. Yeah, that's his way. What do you think, Stephen? Yeah. No, I mean, I am like, yeah, you know, someone like screams and collapses in front of you. I mean, yeah. Brandon, what's your interpretation of that scream? Can you do your version? Well, I mean, I can do I'm in this very small apartment. Yeah, I'm gonna wake up five families if I scream loud enough. But he he it does. It goes on for like, a second too long. Like it's a second into maybe faking it. But that first whale is a sincere whale,

I think. Yeah, he was like, it's a hard challenge. I mean, it's really hard. And he was doing great. I mean, not as great as JT. But like he doing he was doing you know really really well. I think you're right like he probably heard his pride a little bit there. Yeah I had the same challenge against Parvati in the next season and she killed it. She killed me. Well she's unbelievable at those things. Yeah those things are tough. My feet are my weakness. Tell me what what is Coach like, like off the show, but as the show is aired? I'm sure you guys are traveling around together. Like, what's it like to just,

what's a dinner with Coach like? He's like a smart cultured guy, you know? He like, you know, he talks about, he's really invested in classical music. He drinks, I don't know, like it sounded corny, like, oh, he drinks whiskey, like look how cultured he is. But like truly, like he does, he's, and then, you know, the sound corny like oh he drinks whiskey like look how cultured he's but like truly Like he does he's and then and you know back then too like that was a little head of the curve

I mean, you know, he's like a smart like awful culture guy. I do think it was hard for him in token sheens era because You know, he was getting a lot of hate like because he was like like that he was saying like they made him a villain Yeah, I agree I agree I have to like everybody that watched the show they were like, man, I hate that coach. I'm like, y'all really should meet the guy. He's really nice, really genuine. Like I said, I would take him, you can take him anywhere around anybody. He's always going to be at his best, you know, very polite, well spoken. I mean, he's a pleasure to be around all the time, really. Do you think that he's going to, who do you think he's gonna connect with most on season 50?

Is he gonna be like looking for Saree, his hero's villains friend, or you think he's gonna go for these new players who might like look up to him as sort of like, this big figure in the game, or what's his, what about, oh, Colby's out there, Colby and he will have to have a rematch. They, oh, thanks. Thanks for helping me. We got everybody here. Or, you know, what's what's what's his what about Colby's out there Colby and he will have to have a rematch. They they.

Oh, thanks. Thanks. We got everybody. Yes. My computer messed up. Stephanie, Saree. Oh, Ozzy. Gosh, Ozzy and you've got rivalry.

Yeah. Yeah. He's got quite a few people that he's he has previous relationships with, which is not like everybody like he is. I think maybe the most connected out of the older folks in terms of who he's played with. Like that whole row sans Jenna he is he's played with. But JT, do you have any thoughts on maybe who he might be hanging

with once he's out there? I think Kobe, I'm sure him and Kobe will be working together if they're on the same tribe, but coach is a natural, like, he really wants to lead. I think he'll be taking some young people under his wing more than anything, or he'd like to. It's gonna be hard to take any of those returning players there under his wing because they've all played their own share quite a bit.

But man, Ozzy's such a beast in water challenges. They better be buddying up to him pretty good. Whoever's tribe he's on. I mean, you think there's going to be lingering and like, like animosity from South Pacific when they were like team captains against each other? Who Ozzy and coach? Yeah. Were they team captains?

I can't remember. Yeah, that was the season Sophie one where there there was like coach's tribe and then Ozzy had his tribe. That's right. That's right. They did. You know, they there could be. Um, I would suspect that Siri and Siri and Ozzy would be working together if they're

on the same tribe for sure. They seem to always be together. Yeah, the, the, the rumor mill that's been swirling has been saying that, that there is some resentment still from how South Pacific ended on the part of Ozzy into Coach. I'm sorry, Coach views that he didn't win that season because of Ozzy, because Ozzy and his tribe didn't vote for Coach once he hit that final three, which is interesting. You see a South Pacific coach, his third time, he kind of falls into the role as this master strategist, which

he wasn't the first two times. What do you think that caused that shift in between time two and three that thrust him into the role? Was that with who he was with, he got lucky that he was the more alpha type character or did he like calculated change his strategy? Do you think? Me personally, I think probably as he assumed the leader role like the the Fatherly figure of that tribe

I think I felt like they all kind of looked to him because he was the only one on that tribe that had played previously if I remember correctly and I think that kind of just started the You know the Strategist role. I don't believe he calculated play in exactly like that. I think he kind of read the room when they all kind of looked up to him. I think that kind of gave him that, that lead role. I mean, also like just like playing survivor three times against, or, you know, having played twice before against people who have played no times.

It's a such a huge advantage. And especially, I mean, you know, Emily flippin said that, that good point, you know, like, like the biggest advantage is just that initial kind of comfort with what's happening to you. You know, when she was talking about Bruce having, you know, coming back and he's like, I barely played before it was like, you've done this. And like, this is the hardest part. It's like coming out here, doing that pregame stuff, walking onto the beach, like making those first, having those first conversations, like, and just like have done that a couple

of times. And you know, then it gives you a lot of experience. I do, I do bet that there was some part of coach that kind of wanted to, you know, move his game forward. And I think that's what's so cool about coach coming back now is I bet there's like a real, my guess is that he's going to like want to both capture like the glory days of coach, you know, like really play up the like dragon slayer stuff, but also have like a more nuanced, mature perspective. Cause now he's like a dad too. Yeah. I mean, I think you, I think you'll do well.

I really do. Uh, I think you're right too. I think you'll probably not play up the, uh, dragon slayers much. Hopefully. I don't know that because like he's got, like, you know, he hasn't been on TV, you know, when he was on TV, you know, back to back every year, basically for three years. And then now he hasn't been on TV for I mean, how long has it been, you know, like, uh, 14 years or whatever. 14 years. Um, so, you know, there's probably a lot of, you know,

the Dragon's Side has been waiting to come roaring back to life. Now, JT, you I'll bring this graphic up again, as you've with now, I believe, six of the folks that are playing for season 50. So I'd love to rapid fire give you the person you can give me what it was like to play with that particular person. Okay. Is it six or five? I believe it's six. Six.

I see it now. Yes. Give me your Colby takes. What was it like to play with Colby when you were there? It was awesome. Colby was a great guy. And Colby was just the only thing different from what I remembered about Colby was he just didn't have the fire. He just didn't have it in him and the challenges that he was capable. He just didn't, I don't know, I'm not sure if he was just beat, but at any time he felt like Kobe was not with us, you

know? Still athletic, still strong, and he needed a little confidence boosting going against Rob sometimes, but he's still a threat. Physically, if he could keep his mind in the game, he's a great threat. Kobe's a great guy, too. Well, what's interesting is I actually talked to Tina Wesson on this same podcast about Kobe, and I had asked her, like, you know, he seems a little bit tired and disinterested the last time that he was there.

And she said that she she had told me that he feels embarrassed by it. And they've talked about it recently is where he is now wanting to go back to kind of redefine that legacy that he had left behind where he doesn't, you know, there was maybe an air of that he was like maybe bigger than the show. You know, he maybe had like a way about him that was like he was there for them, whereas I think he's back in it because he wants to change that perception. Maybe so, that would be awesome because he's a he's a heck of a competitor and a great guy. He was just really quiet. Then when we played together, we played together. I felt like he was on the outs. He was just kept to himself a lot. But great guy, man, and a great competitor. What's interesting about Stephanie and Sury is they've now both done two shows in between them doing Heroes vs. Villains together.

They did an hour-long show called Snake in the Grass, which was like a mole type show that Siri ended up winning. And then they do the Traders where Siri also ends up winning. And I know that they weren't there in Here's a Resilience for a ton of time, but do you have any insight into how that relationship might look

once they're both there together again? Well, Stephanie, I've always been a huge fan, but I actually ran into her at a wedding. We have a mutual friend that we didn't know about where actually my wife's niece was married and she was at the wedding and we spent some time. It was really hot. We were in like South Florida, sweating our butts off, but I got to know Stephanie outside the game for a while there too. But I love Stephanie. She's awesome. She was a fighter. I rooted for her so hard when it was her and Bobby John, the only two left. And Palau, I think Stephanie is the ultimate competitor. And for the physical challenges for females, she's probably one of the strongest.

She is really tough. But man, she she puts her mind to something. She wants it. So I think that, you know, I don't know about her and Seree's relationship, but they are both very cunning players. I have to believe that they are going to be ready to work with each other. Have you, Steven, do you have any insight into maybe how they will eventually get along? You know, Stephanie has been bested by Seree now, I think, two separate times very publicly. And you know, the streets are saying Stephanie's not super thrilled about it. Stephanie's coming in hot this time.

Yeah. Oh, I mean, I missed that. Can you give me an update, Brandon, that there was some sort of like Stephanie versus Surrey like drama like post post them having left? We I mean, like Surrey like straight up, you know, deceived Stephanie on traders. Like she just like lied to her and tricked her. But you know, that's the game. That is the game. So the snake in the grass show that they both did was four contestants,

one of which is picked by the producers as kind of the mole. They have to do three challenges and the mole is supposed to make them lose the challenge. And Stephanie got caught right away in the episode by Suri. And then Suri is out, I'm sorry, Stephanie's outed as that mole. So the streets have been saying that Stephanie's been going around saying that her target once she gets on this season is going to be Suri. Stephanie wasn't super shy about it on the, you know, and all these events, people are going to watch the show every week. Stephanie's been kind of vocal.

So I'm interested to see how the relationship ultimately ends up, but I think they're both gonna be going right for each other. At Desjardins Insurance, we know that when you are a building contractor, your company's foundation needs to be strong. That's why our agents

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What's your, you know, you spent some time, JT, with Ozzy. What's Ozzy like on the island? Oh, man. Ozzy is huge, huge asset on the island. No one's ever gonna, I mean, Ozzy is a fish when he's in the water. He's hard to match. I mean, I like to compete with everybody on everything. Ozzy, I couldn't touch him in the water.

I mean, it's unbelievable what he can do. For hours, he'll go out with a Hawaiian sling. For hours, just treading water and come back with a string full of fish. And I can, I mean, I'll be so exhausted after 10 minutes of trying to like keep myself afloat as well as like the bag that keep up with what fish I might catch. It's unbelievable.

Any water challenge, Ozzy's gonna win it. His tribe is gonna win it. I mean, unless someone else comes along with that kind of water skill, but I have never seen it. Ozzy is a beast in the water. He's a great, great guy too and plays a good game. Ozzy, he's a quiet, quiet camp life guy that he keeps to himself. He does his walking around and makes people suspicious sometimes, but he's just being Ozzy. Um, if he can just, you know, pay more attention to the, to the, uh, social part of it, he could go far. His, his competitiveness is unmatched.

I mean, he's so good in the water. It's unbelievable. Do you think like, can like players change? Like we've seen the obviously four times now, like, and he's never been like, I mean, probably his most strategic season. I don't even know if this is true. Is I would say it's Cook Islands where he comes in like, and, you know, like, he's never been like, I mean, probably his most strategic season. I don't even know if this is true. I would say it's Cook Islands where he comes in like, and, you know, um, but can he change?

Like, can he become, can people become like, I couldn't become, I could work out a lot, but I can't become like a good challenge competitor, you know, it's just like not in my DNA. Can like someone become more strategic? Thank you. And I believe they could, uh, but it's so hard to like, and you see people doing it now, they go to the whole show, deceiving their everyday life, their job or whatever makes their living. They'll be slightly changing that. But it's so hard, man. Stephen, by the end of the game, when I was playing with you guys, I mean, I felt like I'd known you forever. Like, you know, where I was hiding from you, I lost it about halfway through.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I told you anything by that point. If Ozzy could come in and be more strategic, yeah, he could definitely. But he needs to, you know, with a plan and stick with it. But he'll always, he can't change. He cannot compete and not be competitive in the challenges. Like, that part, he'll never be able to change.

But he could come in and be more strategic. You know, just, it would be easier to do that than just say, work out and become good at challenges. Yeah. The, yeah, I wonder if like the 26 day season that's a lot faster or a lot shorter is gonna have to ease. I wonder how the people will adapt to that.

Because like, I don't know, Brandon, you've lived that life, like, there's probably less of a premium even, you know, certainly like by the 30s, you know, nobody cared how much fish he caught, but like, I imagine that's even less true or even more true today, where it's like, you know, we're going to be on a different tribe in a week. Well, I think what will maybe be the Aussie downfall is there's no downtime anymore. I think Aussie's best work, like the fish catching and the food finding is done in that downtime.

Whereas you're now in challenge, tribal council, challenge, tribal council, most days. I do wonder if that, the thing that he's like the best at is now like kind of taken from him in a way where he has to adapt. But I thinking about adapting, I mean, coach that third time kind of leans into this strategist role where he hadn't been in it the first couple of times. So I am curious to see if Ozzy can do that. And on the flip side, you know, JT, you play with Aubrey as well, who is like known for just strategy. And she's back out here again as well. So curious to see how that'll go on from her perspective.

She just like coach did a three within the span of two years, three years. She did three different times on Survivor and she is also now had about a 10 year ish break. So that should be exciting to see also. Yes, I love Aubrey too, man. She was awesome. I loved having her. We were we were pretty tight allies problem. I was voted out of the game changer season. She was shocked too, but I enjoyed, enjoyed playing

with her a lot. She's very intelligent, which was what I needed. Some smarts out there. I think she'll do good. She'll always do good. She can read the room. She'll, she'll find the right group. She'll do good. What's the skill though? Then, right? Cause I feel like downtime is what, you know, that's a sort of like where people create alliances. That's where kind of like, you know, strategy, at least when we were on came into play because you had just tremendous amount of downtime. You use that to sort of build bonds with people to kind of pop up with ideas.

Like what's the skill that makes someone a good strategic player and contemporary survivor. I think it's, it's the adaptability and the, you have to be adaptability, but you have to be adaptable rather, but also the quickness in which you need to make those decisions where there's not as much time now to think about, you know, you guys were, you have tribal council on day, you know, 33 and then you have day 34, 35 and then 36 to vote somebody out again. Whereas it is literally, it's within hours that you're voting something off. No, as soon as you hit that maybe halfway point, it's a tribal council every day and the reward challenge

or immunity challenge rather during the day where it's like that game is played within the two hours in between the challenge and tribal council, where you have players like in Ozzie who, when their game is kind of built around the survival aspect, you know, that's really less of a thought than it's ever been in terms of finding the food and what have you. But I would think that was someone like Saree too, where like her, one of her superpowers is she builds these like deep bonds with people and then she sort of like, you know, weaves her like, you know, web of intrigue and like is able to kind of like get people to really, you know, weaves her like, you know, web of intrigue and like is able to kind of like get people to really, you know, um, play not for her, but like, you know, like to, to sort of like control kind of what everyone is doing.

I would think that sort of like, and now this guy, now that guy, now that guy, like that kind of thinking like will hurt her too. Well, what's interesting about Suri in particular is I'm not sure JT how much you know of this, but the Australian franchise of survivor just had a season that was two weeks long. We don't know how Suri did in it, but Suri has played in that with Parvati and with Tony Vlachos, the three of them. There were only 12 contestants. They played for two weeks, but Suri has now played a abbreviated version of Survivor, which I think is infinitely helpful here because I do agree with that point is her best work is, I think Kyle Frazier said it, played in the margins is what he described in his game is that his best strategy is played kind of when nothing's going on.

But Saree has now felt a game where it's a lot quicker. So I'm wondering if that will be a struggle for your folks who are coming back, having only played the 39 day edition of the show, where it is very nonstop. So we'll see. Is there anybody JT that you played with that you wish you were seeing back out there for another round? Yeah, Steven. Don't wish that on me. I don't want to go. I'm done. I don't want to go. He said. Oh, man, I don't know. I wish you were going. Were you contacted at all? Like, I wish you were. I was not.

You I was crazy because like you are every time you got you've delivered, you know. I wouldn't say that. Not always the you know, the way I live in big moments. The last two. But yeah, I didn't feel like I delivered at all. Actually, I'm the last two. That's great. The thing was one of my favorite moment. Rafting and game changers was one of my favorite moment rafting and game

changers was one of my favorite moments of Survivor. That's hilarious. That's like truly one of the funniest things. I was desperate. I was like outnumbered five to one. I was like, what is one of the chances? But I should have known if you ever get comfortable, it's coming. And you're the first person to ever stand up and walk across, you know, the tribal council set.

You know, that's a real speaking of game changers. Oh, don't bring out all of them. I'm bringing out all my regrets out. I know it didn't work out, but it was a great, it was cool. Didn't work out. No, well, then everyone was doing that after you did it. Like it suddenly like that actually changed the game because like after that, like every travel council for a few seasons was like that way.

You know, I wished so much that I had got with Cold Pepper and came up with a secret hand signal thing or something at that point, but I was just like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to pull this off. So I was like, well, I'll let you do it. That was such a cool moment. Sit down, so I'll just try and walk over and tell him, you know, but that can be-

Were you nervous when you did that of like, oh my gosh, they're gonna like tell me not to? No, I didn't know. I was just thinking I was gonna say it before they stopped me kind of thing. Um, but I had no idea what to expect. I tell I've lived that moment. I should have, uh, there's a lot of regrets about that because it didn't work out at all. But you know, um, I don't know, maybe they were, uh, you know, I'm beginning to think

that idols are just cursed anyway. I don't want to ever get an idol. I never do, I never do anything good with an idol. I've noticed that so I think that you know, I Never really considered they they would do anything to me other than you know, just say hey, we can't do that and I was gonna like blurt it out anyway to pray a cold pepper, but um You know, I'd probably play again if they asked me, but there's no sweat off my back either way.

What you do do effectively, JT, every time that you're there is you do big swings, which the new era motto is make the move. If you can swing, you should swing, which surprises me that they wouldn't have wanted that for a season where you do have, just in this group, swingers is not the word that I want to use, but you have a lot of folks who have made those moves in their seasons, which is funny. You know, you jokingly are like, you know, going to the vending machine at the airport. That's a swing.

You know, that's a, you might get in trouble. You don't care, you know, which whispering at travel council does effectively change the meta of the show for a little bit. So I'd be curious to see how you adapt to this new 26 day game that they have, which is unlike what you've done previously. Have you given thought to that when you watch of how you do in this new format? A little bit. You know, the one of the hardest things about the first season was the fire. I mean, for me, maybe for Stephen too, but the downtime, the day the dead day was so

long and we had already made our mind up what we were going to do at Tribal. So we literally had to just like lay around and let the sun bake us for 24 hours before we could do anything. It was so long. It just seemed like the days were so long. But to me, I mean, the shorter time span would fly by. It would be a lot more action packed, a lot less downtime. But I'm like Aussie, you know, the longer I'm there, the better I'm in more. I'm in my element, the more advantage I would have.

But I like to think that, you know, when it's seven days or 40 days, I can, I can do it, you know, but that's everybody. I'm sure everybody wanted not me, but like a lot of people said that like, you know, in their pregame, uh, assessment for you, like when all the pregame press came out for token chains, they're like, I got to vote this guy off. He can't sit still. He's all, he's up all over. He's all over the place.

I feel like you'd do really well in like a more, you know, action packed frenetic, uh, Susan. I appreciate it, Steven. Is there anybody JT that is like stuck out to you in just the past couple of years in this like new era of survivor, Somebody that you remember that you really liked? Man, I can't say for sure. I haven't watched every season, so I don't want to like just pick the one or two seasons I've seen. But I can't say. Yeah, it is interesting.

I've seen the last few seasons, not since the shorter game. I haven't really watched that much. You know, Colby is back out there after, from what I understand from now, Tina, he didn't watch for years. Like he didn't watch since even heroes versus villains the last time, but he's now gone back and studied. He's watched every season of the new era. He's, he's coming in with a dossier of each person. Um, so you have people who are coming in then also are, you know, not new era

experience that maybe just watched them a month ago as opposed to a couple weeks ago. So it'll be exciting. It's an exciting time. Yep. I want to ask you, Steven, what's your, you know, is it 15 years you've been friends with JT still people play survivor 15 years ago, they lose touch. What's the best part about your JT friendship in the current day? I, in the current day, I would just say it's nice to like, just like, you know, like, we'll

just like exchange a text or a call every so often. And you just like pick up right where we were, you know, it's, it feels like, um, you know, can hassle each other or send insults, you know, with me, uh, it's just like, you know, it feels like it's like, it just like indoors, which is really, which is really cool. Yep. Absolutely. I was going to ask you, JT, the same thing. What's your, what's your favorite part about Steve?

What's his partnership? What makes it work? He's a, I mean, he knows, he knows where I stand and I know where he stands. He's always going to be the same. He'll tell me the truth when no one else wants to. I mean, Steven will be like we said a long time ago, he'll be my best friend forever. The years are going so fast. It doesn't seem like it's been 15 years since we were together in

Nashville hanging out or somewhere. There's so many so many things I can think about when I'm by myself or sitting in my house about Steven and just be smiling cameras. What are you smiling at like love just thinking about Steven? I'm touched by that. Thank you. That's beautiful in your family too, man. I went to LA and Steven wasn't even there and they opened their home to camera. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, they're probably happier that you were there without me.

I actually treated me better when Stephen wasn't there. And that's why I was like, this is pretty nice. It is wild. Like I like, I definitely got to know each other's families really well. And then like, I'll still like, you know, every so often I'll get like an email, I'll make a message from his sister or something, you know, like, you know, every so often I'll get like an email, I'll make a message from his sister or something, you know? Like, uh. I'm sorry about this, Stephen. Yeah. Yeah.

Give me some of these, like, you know, you mentioned Nashville, JT, like, I love hearing the stories from back in the day. Like, give me one of the times that you guys were around, something that you can tell, obviously, that'll, you know, people will hear. But it's all PG. Yeah, it's all PG.

Nothing I couldn't tell. I've been here a lot. We were in Nashville, just, I had, of course, I had no idea what a seat filler was. We were going to the CMT awards and I was just like, what are these people lining up here? And like, we, I'd never really understood it until we went and got a drink. And I was like, Steven, somebody's in our seats, man. I was like, no, somebody's in our seats. What do we do? They'll get up. I was like, are you sure? Because I mean, I had no idea like they're going to fill our seats while we're going kind of thing. So I just thought somebody like stole our seats. You know, I was just so I've

kind of got culture shock there. But I remember we were like, well, let's just try to because a lot of people recognize this special we're together. We're like, well, we're just trying to get rock party. So we're marching up just figured we had a march right on in and didn't work out. Apparently they don't work. I was like, all right, let's try next time, you know, but uh, and Todd was there and we went to have breakfast with like, she took us to some like cool breakfast place and like not because of anything I ate that this breakfast place, I just got so stomach sick. I spent the entire time in the bathroom while they had a wonderful meal. So really, like really, you know, gastrointestinal distress was following me even then. That meal we ate when they passed around the bowl on the table, but Taj, that was so good.

Sorry. It's okay. Don't be sorry. That meal was so good with Taj, man. So good. In the cupcake place, I can't remember where it was at. Every time I go to Nashville, I think about that dinner place though. I've tried to find it again, but I couldn't find it mystery Monotone. Yeah. Yeah Is there anybody other than Steve and JT that you still keep in contact with from any of the survivor seasons you did? I still talk to coach occasionally and I

Had talked Ozzy in a while. But like I said, I miss seeing Steph Stephanie about a year ago, year and a half ago in Florida and we hung out for a weekend. Um, but that I talked to, no, not just coach and Todd and Steven probably pretty, for the most part. Is that in Tyson? It's the best. Is there anybody Steven in your book escape that you can pre-order now. Is there anybody, Stephen, in your book, Escape, that you can preorder now? Is there anybody loosely based on JT?

Any JT reminiscences? There's this idiot cattle rancher who makes mistakes constantly, totally bumbling buffoon, ends up winning, doesn't deserve to, next to a very handsome other. No, there's nobody who's like one to one. You know, of course, like I just like, you know, took, you know, was inspired just by the general vibe of, you know, reality TV contestants. There's no like one to one play. Super cool.

Well, take that. Yeah. I am so thrilled that we got the chance to chat. This is again, people, JT, like, even in the new era seasons, you are constantly referenced, you and JT, or I'm sorry, you and Stephen are constantly referenced on the island. People stay to each other on day one, like we can be JT and Stephen. So people are going to be thrilled getting to hear you. Nobody wants to be the Stephen. That everyone's like, I want to be the JT over there. Like Nick, Nick, you know, Nick Wilson

says to Christian, like we're JT and, and he in fact became, he won and Christian did not. So there you go. New Era's casting is mostly Steven. It's a lot of Steven. That's the problem with New Era casting is it's like too many Stevens, not enough JTs. We're not getting a ton of JTs in current days. But JT, thank you again so much for making some time here to chat about Coach.

Before you go, I'd love to get both of your, Steven, I'm not sure if you're on the record with a winter pick for season 50, but if you have anybody who you're getting a good vibe from, I'd love to hear. I'll say Rick Devins, like, you know, Rick's a good friend and I actually think Rick could be in the sweet spot and people are going to hate this. There's like a lot of people in like the real, you know, the, the Twitter fandom that don't do not like Rick. They're wrong.

Rick's a lovely human. He's a great guy. He played a really good game. Um, and I feel like he's like nicely situated between the old school and the new school to do really well. My other one is Tiffany. I feel like she might have a little bit of that, you know, she, she played a really smart game last time. And I think like now she might have a little bit of that. She played a really smart game last time and I think like now she might have a little bit of that sort of like under the radar threat because Q is such a big player on that season. I feel

like Tiffany could be a real threat to her too. Tiffany's up there. Tiffany is, I see her name a lot on these Twitter, Reddit. People really feel good about Tiffany. I think I'm piggybacking off that one. I think Tiffany might be up there for me. Man, it's tough. I got who I want to win, who I like, my closest friends there. But I'm gonna say Aubrey or Coach is gonna do well. One of them.

I've seen both of their names. Aubrey too. Aubrey is a very popular winner pick for this round and just you know, JT just because I thought of it here, you know, you play on two seasons. Here's there's villains and game changes where you're one of the only winners that are there. They invited two winners back for season 50 and I'm wondering

how did you navigate like being on a tribe where I think here is there's the villains you're you and Tom are the only winners, I think. I'm doing that quickly in my head. Sandra was on there. On my tribe, you mean, or on the whole season? Yes. Also on Heroes versus Villains, you were just with Tom was on your tribe of you guys were the only winners on that team. And then once you get over to Game Changers, you have Sandra and then Tony's, I guess, opposite you guys. So what is it like to navigate these games when you're one of the only two or three winners that are there? I mean it's this tougher obviously. I mean like they were coming for me they had just watched my

season on Heroes Villains and I've felt the pressure. But you know it's anybody's game. It really doesn't matter if you won before or not. I think that meant more back then than it probably will this time. Just because the returning players, they can make it with or without you either way. They know that. It's all a different game. I don't think it's going to hurt anybody or help anybody. Are there any returning winners on there now? I don't think so.

Kyle has just won. Who else? There's one other who I'm totally bringing. Oh, Dee is out there. And then, you know, there may be, you know, there's one other from 49 maybe. Who knows? Okay. Yes.

Yeah, they have two unidentified folks from season 49 who just filmed. They left a week later to go play again. So we're unsure of how those folks did. But yeah, Kyle and Dee, I mean, Kyle got the million dollar jack on Wednesday. You know, those two have a, a, um, slight advantage, I would say, because no one has seen those two play and they have seen everyone else play. So that's something they're going to have to like prepare for. As we think like now after like the Russell of it all, like people will be super wary

of that. I mean, everyone says that though, but then like you like abstractly, you think you're going to be wary, but I wonder if like abstractly you think you're going to be wary, but I wonder if like practically you're like not going to be scared. Assume the worst, you know, assume the most bizarre characters, you know, because that's what it was for me. But um you know there's nothing like coming going into one and coming right out of a game. Like I'll never be more prepared to play than I was like the last, you know, week of the game that I was in with you, Stephen. Like, had I played immediately following that, I mean, I would be right in my rhythm. I wouldn't be nervous. I mean, everything would be during that game mindset

where everything's so fast, everything's so quick and like cutthroat. I feel like anybody can run right into it back to back. It has an advantage for sure. And you, JT, play with Zeke and Michaela are both on your season, which they had played the one before and nobody had any inclination as to how they did the same with Russell back in Heroes vs. Villains. And those folks always do well on that second try. Like they always end up making nine and above. They're in the mindset you're in at the end of the game, which is completely different

than the beginning. I mean, you're literally cutthroat in the end, like you're ready. You're ready to just cut strings, whatever you gotta do. Beginning of the season to me, especially our first one was nothing but building relationships, trying to find people you can relate to or trust and work with. If you're past that, at the end of the game, it's just all about you. And that's how they start the game in that mindset. I mean, it's definitely an advantage. end of the game, it's just all about you and that's how they start the game and that mindset. I mean, it's definitely an advantage. Not that it's unfair, but it's definitely an advantage for sure.

Yeah. And I wonder if we're at the point now where people will, because it seems like the last time it happened was with you, Zeke and Michaela. I don't know if people have kind of caught on to how big of an advantage that is, and this might be the time where they pull trigger on it. Yeah, I think so. I think they would be wise of them too, because yeah, it's an open book.

They have nothing. They have no prejudgment, which may be good, may be bad. I don't know about those players at all. All they can assume is that they done well. And if they brought them back, they better assume they done really well, or they made really good TV. Yeah, I just think it's like abstractly, maybe you know that it's scary,

but then like, it's so easy, much easier to lock in like in your brain on someone who you actually have contact for. Yeah, it's an interesting debacle. It just feels like an easy like third or fourth vote out, opposed to the first vote you maybe want to take out of like a big entity, you know, a recognizable person who may be a threat, as well as you lose like the third immunity challenging you just you're shrugging and it's like, you know, let's just take out this random person we don't know. Yeah, but we will see. Stephen, do you want

to go ahead and plug where people can get escape online? Yeah, I escape is avail escape exclamation point my novel is available at Stephen fishback We will see. Steven, do you want to go ahead and plug where people can get Escape online? Yeah. Escape is available. Escape! My novel is available at stevenfischbeck.com. Anyone who's interested in reading it would like to read it. It's a fictional novel set on a reality show in the jungle. So I feel like anyone who's here with us 52 minutes in might be interested in that subject.

So I'd love it if you go Jt thomas has ordered a copy Um, and my gosh this guy doesn't even know how to read so if you know how to read exactly Well, I want to make sure about why I got you you you are doing the audiobooks for me, right? You're reading Um, I was told that you would read the audiobook. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, is that nobody about it? Nobody be able to understand it, unfortunately. But that might be, you know, there's an appeal to that, you know. I'm excited about it.

Well, thank you very much. I mean, he texted me. It's like, hey, I got your book. I was like, oh, my gosh, like I hadn't even like messaged my friends. He hadn't told me. I was like, why is he not telling me about this? I'm going to order right now. Before he can pull it from the shelves.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you guys both again. Speaking as a fan of the show, it is so much fun to get to see you guys interact again, like you did, you know, back in the deck. So thrilled we will be back again next time on the Survivor 50 files. Stay tuned everybody have a good one. Thank you to our friends at Manta Sleep for sponsoring this episode of the Survivor 50 files. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You've been here long enough. Let me show you my sleep mask. The one that I use and I use every night. Here it is. This is,

I've worn this every night for the past couple years. Um, minus the four nights that I spent on Survivor, the television show, and it sucks to get buttered out of Survivor, but a little bit better when you know you're going back home to this. This is 100% light blackout for deeper sleep. You put this on, can't see anything. When I watched the first two episodes of Survivor 45, I put this guy on.

I don't have to relive it, which is great. It's adjustable for a personalized fit. You can see I've quite a big head. I don't wanna show you the details of, I've kind of worn out the elastic, but it's durable. This guy hasn't broke. I've worn it every night for the past couple of years and at zero pressure on your eyelids or eyelashes. I've converted so many people to getting this sleep mask when I wasn't doing this. And I want to convert you use promo code 50 files. That's five zero F I L E S on a Mantis Lee website to get 10% off your order. That's 50 files, five zero F I L E S. We'll see you soon.