RHAP: We Know Survivor - Kaleb Gebrewold Recaps Survivor 48 Ep 10

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

This week, Rob Cesternino is joined by Survivor 45's Kaleb Gebrewold to talk about episode 10 of Survivor 48.

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Subject to credit approval. Coming to you live from my apartment, it's Rob has a podcast and now here's the guy who often says to himself my enemies are pardon I'm Rob Cisternino. Hello everybody. Welcome back. So excited to be here on Thursday for a great episode you're in the right place because we have a Fantastic guest here with us I just saw him in Boston and I'm excited to get the chance to catch up a little bit here with you. It's Caleb Caleb, how are you? What's going on, Rob? You know, Boston, so much fun, we have to do it again.

Right? Yeah. I mean, not necessarily in Boston, but wherever. So I'm excited to have you here. We haven't really ever gotten to do a podcast like this before. And so I'm thrilled to get the chance to do it Yeah, we did the after show, but I thought that's a different animal That's like oh like bang bang bang bang this happened this happened this happened this happened takes takes takes Yeah, I actually uh, you know, it's funny

I don't know if I'm uh, you know You watch all these sports podcasts watching Stephen A Shannon Sharp, all these guys. Like, I could in there like how hard could that be? And you know, a lot of respect for the know it all's, you know, and everyone who's who's who's done the after show thing. But this is gonna be fun. You know, a little bit and this is more your vibe, I feel. I appreciate that. Yeah, like, you know, people talk about

wanting to get to the end. But you know, you might as well enjoy the journey. That's where I'm enjoying. Yeah. Like, you know, people talk about wanting to get to the end, but, you know, you might as well enjoy the journey. That's where I'm enjoying the journey. And we're going to have a lot of fun here today. Of course, great exit interview today with Star. Got the chance to catch up with Star. Very fun one. Be sure to check that one out. Also, we have the Wandoff coming up this week. Ever listen to the wand off Caleb

You know what? not Recently, but I recently yeah, you know you know it exists. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, all right Wanda off coming up on Monday part of Club condo get your wand off saying Rob is website.com slash Wanda off and just one other thing for listeners as you're listening to me and Caleb talk about everything that's going on. We've got a survey that we posted. I want to know from the listeners, what do you want RHAP to be focused on? What's working? What's maybe not working as much? Let us know. Go to robbinswebsite.com slash spring survey when you have a couple of minutes. I really appreciate much. Let us know. Go to robbinswebsite.com. Spring survey when you have a couple of minutes.

I really appreciate it. Help us figure out what we should be doing for you. All right. But Caleb, for you, how's everything going? You know, everything is is is great over here. Although I did have some tough news last week that I thought might be fun for the pod sure I don't know if everything's okay. Yeah, so uh last week officially Fire to the music festival. Yes, I heard about yes. I talked about this on news AF this week with Tyson

Oh, okay, not on this podcast. I mean it's all this podcast, but you sure So I had a ticket since October of last year. Oh, now what was it about the fire festival? Because the first one was famously such a disaster that made you want to go back out. So it started with a girlfriend of mine was in New York and actually grabbed drinks with Billy McFarland. Yeah. The, you know, and I guess, you know, sounded very funny, charming, you know, and smart.

And she was like, you know, killed the biggest thing that jumped out to me is that he comes across really humbled after all the mistakes he's made. Right. Yeah. He's doing this thing fire too, and I think we should go to it. How, you know, maybe she just picked me because I'll do something just for the plot, you know what I mean?

But I was like, you know, this guy, it's almost like the Wolf of Wall Street, Jordan Belfort, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, he scammed a lot of people, but at the end of the day, if you're teaching like 19 year olds how to steal from the 1%, you're like a savant in some areas.

You know what I mean? Like there is a lot of method to the madness. And I was just thinking to myself, you know, if Billy is gonna use his powers for good, I could be on the first cutting edge of something that, you know, everyone's gonna be talking about for as long as we live. So I thought, you know, risk it, one in six shot, you know,'s, let's give it a shot. That was a shot in the dark to go

to fire festival too. And then they announced, okay, that they were not going to have it. They also announced that they're going to sell the company. Have you thought about taking over the fire festival? I, uh, I, that is not, I didn't know that if I was, I maybe would co-sponsor it. Maybe I can call Sia or somebody. Maybe Rob has a podcast, congrats. Maybe you could get a pool of investors together. Yeah, that would be perfect.

I think having one person be the face, I don't know if it works so well the first time, but if it was a conglomerate, you know what I mean? Yeah, because I feel like that survivor kind of does have the fire branding. Like maybe you could buy fire festival and turn it into like the world's biggest survivor convention. Uh, didn't Bob Crowley have like the biggest survivor? Like should we get him? You can top that. Right? I wasn't, I wasn't't there but the fire festival branding behind

you Bob Crowley is gonna be like oh my god Caleb is destroying me yeah I you know it will let like you know sound off let us know if this is something that we should be like the Death Star to Bob Crowley's whatever he's doing before we before we start a bidding war how much are we talking about? I don't know. Okay, you don't know. You're the salesperson, you gotta go in there and negotiate with Billy McFarland. You already have the connection. I'll talk to my girl and see what happens. But I will say for Billy's sake that, you know, outside of the fact that

it sounds like those extenuating circumstances that, you know, he lost a lot of credibility the first time. It was hard to get the second one set up. I will say money promptly refunded. Okay. All right. Good. And I'm telling you what, because like, look, we get with the fire festival, with all the survivors there, that when we feed them like that, like a pathetic cheese sandwich compared to what we got on Survivor, they're going to be like, Oh, this is a feast.

I feel like I'm on the sanctuary. Let me do the chicken and waffles chant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, well, people don't really like what they like. You go to fire this time and it's like, well, you know what? Like, what's what's three more days or seven more days? Yeah, just will abstain. Come on out, everybody.

Remember, fire represents your life. Yeah. Okay. Maybe like people could get people to like how fast can they make fire? The fire festival is going to be huge when we take it. Now this is starting to sound like a beach drop, you know? Yeah. The world's biggest beach drop coming out to the fire festival with Caleb. Yeah. Star's Sifu's gonna perform like we'll get all the music Yeah, yeah, Maya. Yeah, actually we could book J Maya, but that would be a good guy. You know, this is great Okay, all right. Look we got this all figured out, but let's let's talk about Survivor 48 now Caleb last night. I came in a, speaking of fire, I came in a little hot on the know-it-alls. And I would say that I do not have a ton of remorse this morning.

Sometimes I come in a little overly hot and then I have a little bit of regret in the morning. You've never had that before where the next morning you wake up and you're like, uh, should I have done that? You know, that is, uh, almost, there's too many Sundays to count. I don't always feel it on Saturday, but by Sunday I get hit with the scary is pretty hard. So yeah. First, let me just ask you your reaction to last night's episode. And then I'll tell you where I have maybe a little bit,

maybe one thing I would have taken back from yesterday. So to be to be fair obviously like the last few seasons have just been going like better and better and better as the time has gone on. A real hot streak. Real hot streak and 48 couldn't have started hotter I think I was one of the best pre merges I think yeah we've had as far as I can remember. And maybe it's because I'm a big, big save fan. But anyways, what I will say about this season and how I feel about Joe and Eva,

and I was gonna start with a basketball metaphor here, is that I almost feel like this is like, they're like the San Antonio Spurs of Survivor right now. The Spurs, 15 years for anyone who doesn't know, with Tim Duncan, they're winning 70% of their games. They win five championship. Tim Duncan is the best power forward of all time. But people thought it was so boring

because it was just so methodical and it was so clean. And I almost wonder if that's kind of like an overlap with Survivor 48. This is pure dominance that that we haven't seen and if this continues, this is, you know, the strongest thing since the Re-Bow 4. I was thinking about the Re-Bow 4 and then also what we have here in this Alliance, because I feel like that during your season, I don't feel like that there was people like, oh my God, Rebo 4, so boring. This is like, is anybody gonna do anything? Maybe there was a little bit of that,

but I don't feel like that there was a ton of that, because I think that we were getting like a lot of like, the politicking between the people in the Rebo 4 for positioning in like, in terms of like of who was going to outflank who. And so yes, that was a tribal alliance that was dominating, but this to me feels different because I feel like that on top of they're having the numbers, there's also morality layered over it. And it's also there's not any politicking between the people in the four for who's in the best position in the four.

Yeah. I had a thought actually, which made me laugh, which was like, what's more infuriating to watch or like, you know, you know, more almost hypocritical, right? Starting an integrity alliance where you know that eventually you're going to have to backstab and lie to each other and survivor or, you know, being like the outcast alliance that has all the numbers, like in 47, right? Like, what do you think, like, gets people off more? But I do know, yeah, it definitely feels like, you know, they're moving in this way where, yeah, they're not necessarily Shaheen is probably and Kyle is the only ones who are. And that's a dream spot to be in to the people who are open to playing both sides inside of the integrity group. Yes. And here is going back to the thing that I felt like I was a little hard on of

that. I was I said that there were three people I was frustrated with last night. I was most frustrated with Mitch and then the two people you mentioned Kyle and Shaheen were the other two people that I had Some frustration with because it feels like to me that from what I'm seeing Kyle and Shaheen feel almost content to go to The four with Joe and Eva and I feel like that a four in which Joe will win they seem content to want to do that they feel like okay well we can't turn on Joe and Eva not like I wish I could but I actually there's not a way to do it they seem like that they are morally conflicted about doing that and I think I would probably walk back a little bit of like that I was maybe too hard on Kyle in the episode in that

Kyle seemed to like leave try to leave the door open for Camilla I wish that he was it took less of a half measure and then really tried to set up Camilla for success But at least he did something for her where that I think but I think it was a little bit of a half-measure But I think I would say I would walk back some of my criticism of Kyle from last night Yeah, if we start with Kyle, you know, I don't know how you feel about it. I Feel like if I'm Kyle, I don't want to get rid of Joe and Eva yet feel like if I'm Kyle, I don't want to get rid of Joe and Eva yet. Just because, you know, people. Yet I can live with yet like yet I can live with.

But I'm concerned that he doesn't want to get rid of them at all. Well, that's a different question. But, you know, like I look at Kyle and it's like he's in this weird spot because he has Camilla, who is such a like a great alliance as a secret alliance. But at the same time, if he's conflict, she's been taking a lot of kind of concessions for his game, you know, allowing him to be in the majority group and do all these things, right?

You can't just continue to tell your number one, no, no, no all the time, right? So while he was like, I can't endorse it, what's the least amount that I can give you to show that I do believe in you and that you are my number one? But why would I want Joe gone and then to potentially be the tallest flower to get chopped next? Yeah. You know what I mean? I kind of feel like with Kyle and Camilla and tell me if this is say Rob, this is off

base deleted from the podcast. Okay. I'm starting to feel like that maybe like it's Kyle and Camilla sort of like a little bit of like toxic relationship where that you know, that in this hypothetical world, okay, so it's almost like that Camilla is Kyle's like side relationship. But he's like very much married to his other alliance. And maybe that there was some like, hey, I'm going to like we're actually this is actually the thing. This is actually the thing. And it's almost like that Kyle is like getting cold feet in that, you know, where maybe there

was maybe a promise of like, hey, one day, I'm going to leave this this this alliance I'm married to. And you and I we we're gonna be together. But it seems like a little bit more now, it's like okay, well Camilla, I'll just see you on the weekend. Okay, let me see if I can squeeze you in. Yeah, I do that on Friday.

Yeah, I'm gonna, like, you know, like here, I'll text you a door-card, you go eat without me, I'm doing, I'll do something for you. But you're not getting, getting like my main attention. It's interesting. I think that it's tough and it's hard to carry on the metaphor because I can, I don't know if I can relate, but if I was to, I would say that Camilla is sitting there and it's like, you know, let's say what, one out of 10,

two out of 10 of those type of relationships do turn into their next relationship. So she's kind of like, is, is he actually with me or not? Yeah. And cause he's maybe sometimes he's like saying like the sweet nothings, but I'm starting to wonder if we're getting into territory of like, girl, he's just not that into you. The nice part for Kyle, at least at this point is is that, you know, what are Camilla's other options? You know what I mean?

And you know, Camilla, you know, in this girlfriend metaphor, maybe she lives in the woods. Like who else is she dating? She lives in the woods. She's going to work with Mitch and Star Star, who can't work with each other? She tried. Yeah, she's out there. She's going out. She's like, well, maybe I'll meet somebody else.

Walking on doors, you know what I mean? But as long as that's the only thing in her life, you know, she's going to continue to come back. And I do think he, I don't think that this is actually true. You know, I think that Kyle, you know, has, is like just trying to take out some of the numbers so that way he can time his flip. The tough part is, and it's the same thing with Mitch, is that, you know, in Survivor, it's hard to know how,

especially your first time playing, like when to make the move. And in Survivor, typically you'd rather shoot sooner than later, right? Because if you wait until the perfect time, everyone can anticipate that perfect time has come. Right. And I think that this week would have been the time that maybe nobody sees it coming. It doesn't mean it can't happen at seven.

But now there's all sorts of things that could go wrong where let's say, you know, Kyle wants to, you know, make, make this move. And I had been sort of thinking that Kyle would, the shot he would take would be against Shaheen. I, I, that's what I had thought. But now, you know, you open up the door to like, okay, now you waited to seven if Shaheen wins immunity at seven. And now all of a sudden, if Eva like is okay okay, I'm gonna play the idol on Joe or whatever.

And then now all of a sudden, it's like, well, now you don't have the numbers or you don't have the target to be able to do this. Yeah, it's one thing if it was just the numbers, but it's the fact that Eva has all this ammunition as well. And I wonder at what point is she going to have to start thinking offensively with it versus just defense? The one thing about the safety without power that is interesting

here, where that the safety without power with the numbers being as small as they are, where it's potentially like four or like four to three, like her, like leaving a tribal council would actually screw up her side's numbers pretty bad. Yeah, definitely. And I wonder, does that expire the same time as the idol? I'm not sure. I want to say maybe it's this week that it expires, but it does like what I would love

to see. I think this would be so cool if somebody could find some way to spook Eva to trigger her into using the safety without power on her or Joe to weaken her side's numbers so that they would not be able to do what they're trying to do. probably almost be a misread of Eva. Like she's such a team first person. Don't you think that she'd rather play the idol, even if it compromises her chances in the next round to be able to protect her team, is how I feel like she would do it. What I would love to see someone do

with the safety without power is to give it to somebody on the other side. Yeah, take their number away. Yeah. Yeah, take their number away. Yeah, they're like the opposite of what I'm saying. Do like a split in an easier method, you know, because less numbers to worry about. Yeah. If it's going to be, okay, oh, it's going to be, you know, three, three. I don't know when it expires. Maybe it expires at six. I'm trying to think.

I think that Rachel was able to use her advantage last season at, was it six or even five that she she played her idol at six I think she played her can't block a vote on Sam at five I think yeah maybe maybe safety with that power goes to five my guess is six I think I don't might be the only thing at five I could be wrong for for that I'm trying to get Janet as well and I think that was five that she got idol nullified at five. So it's like it depends like okay maybe it is everything goes until five who knows. Yeah okay so Caleb give me your thoughts on where everything is at. A lot of people have been very down on Mitch.

You want to defend Mitch? Okay if I was to defend Mitch you, and I forgive me if I like fill in the blanks for me here, but my thinking is that he thinks right now his four with he has the four within the six looking at Kyle, Camilla, Shaheen and himself. So here, tell me what Mitch's for us because I don't know because I don't know it. I feel like it's him, Shaheen, Camilla and Kyle. Okay. Because I feel like I saw at least one or two times where they were explaining a plan to him

as that for kind of off to the side in an episode and not this episode. I think maybe the episode before before that. Right. So I wonder if he just thinks that he if he runs down one more number, that they do the flip at that point. But, you know, again, this is waiting for the perfect time versus shooting a little bit sooner, almost like Tony and in Cagayan getting LJ, you know, to me, like around or too sooner, you know, is going to catch the entire team and alliance, you know, more by surprise. And it also limits.

I don't want to we're trying to defend Mitch here. I'm not going to go by surprise. And it also limits. I don't want to, we're trying to defend Mitch here. I'm not going to go too far. Okay. All right. Well, all right. You are prosecute Mitch. Well, to me, you know, in an Alliance, yes, you have to play, you know, trusting the Alliance and trusting the group over the individual. And if you prioritize the group over the individual, you're more likely to be able to make it the furthest in the game. But there is also an element of how do we limit

the options of the people I'm working with? So that way, ultimately, the people who they trust the most are right here. And I just think he has too much evidence at this point that Joe and Eva have made such inroads with Shaheen and Kyle that to think about how we can potentially eliminate one of those numbers now might be a good idea. Right. Yeah. So if I'm going to try to defend where Mitch is at, OK, I would say that like the people in survivor history who have been able to sort of like infiltrate the big Alliance like I'm talking about like

Chris Dardie like a Danny boat, right? like they kind of like end up being the people who totally become like You know sucked into the big Alliance They're just sort of like they hang on the big alliance. The big alliance feels like, hey, this person's just like the chill, cool person that just wants to see us succeed. He runs into trees.

He's just the fun mailman who gets chased by the dog. And little does he know the dog is on the chain. He's just he's he's the you know, just like your girlfriend said Don't worry about this guy. He's fine and then Yeah, right And and that they just sort of like um like Mitch is he's not doing anything And then all of a sudden they look up and something breaks and the four goes after each other and all the sudden Mitch sneaks his way into the final three. I think that that's like what Mitch is hoping for

and look there is a better track record probably for that than the person who has been and I always call this like the Troisane the person who is like the loud person on the bottom who's like hey everybody we got a flip. Yeah. The Sierra. And really, and that was Star. Star was that person. But we, and the audience, we love that person. We love it when they are like, yes, yes, you have to do something.

Yeah. That's funny. I just lost my train of thought. The star thing just cracked me up. What were you saying right before? That was just... What Mitch is trying to do probably has a better track record than what we want Mitch to do.

You caught me. You caught me back up. You know, I agree, but I do feel like it's getting later and later in the game, where it's harder to think that way. The example that you're using would be maybe like Katara. That's exactly what I was thinking. Katara did that and she got in with the Re before. Yeah, where she knew, okay, maybe I'm not on the inside of this group, but this group has got to break up at some point. Yeah.

Like that's what survivor history has shown us is that this group has got to break up at some point. Like that's what survivor history has shown us, is that this group has got to break up. And so if I'm just around, I'll be a number and I'll be able to kind of move and shake. The only problem with that strategy is if the group is actually bonded. And they actually want to go to the end together. Then they ran more of the game and you took a calculated risk

and it just didn't happen to go the way that you had thought. Yeah. Right. To go back to your season, the know, the Reba 4 was really like two separate pairs, but then there was overlap with Dee and Austin also. But it wasn't necessarily like, I don't know if people like looked towards the Reba 4 as like, this is like this unbreakable unit. Was that how you saw them? You know, I won't pretend like we knew, oh, this is this four

lines that has two idols and you know, has all these like advantages, right. But, you know, in the game, the thing that was probably the thing that gave them away the most, at least to me was when we got when I went to the journey with them. And when I got to them, when we went to the merge, they talked a lot about the bottom of their, their tribe. So they're like,, J. Maya, you know, she's hard to trust. She's been like looking for idols and same thing with, I mean, Sifu to this day, you know what I mean?

Like Sifu, this is crazy, you know, this guy. So it did show a hierarchy within their tribe that at least there was two people on the bottom, but not necessarily how tight the top four were. You know, you assume that the women and the men were too close together, but you didn't know how tight those top four were. You know, you assume that the women and the men were too close together, but you didn't know how tight that those two parents were.

Caleb, this four doesn't even try to hide it. This four is like they're like they're together all the time and they talk about it at tribal council of hey, now do you think that any part of it is like, hey, they voted out David last week. Was that so? Are they like sort of like were they breadcrumbing Mitch a little bit of like, hey, Mitch, we voted out David, you never know what we're gonna do.

Yeah, yeah, I think that that was maybe, you know, like hey, you know, one for you, one for us. It's like the movie business, right? And so Mitch was like, okay, I gotta give one back to you guys, because you just did one for me. So I don't know, maybe that's like reciprocity. That's a big thing in sales and life, right? to you guys because you just did one for me. So I don't know, maybe that's like reciprocity in sales and life, right? And so maybe that was part of the motivation or part of how they cajoled him into going along with this plan. Yeah. Was the plan to go to rocks that was

that actually something that Mitch should have more strongly considered or was that a Asking a little bit too much from Mitch to go for rocks It would have been basically with like we looked at the numbers last night on the note else He would have there were in five rocks. So he would have had a one in five chance to go home on the rocks Yeah, I think there's two conversations here. One is should he have gone to rocks and the? And the second is for the bottom, was there a better way for them to convince him to ROX? Right? So you want to start with the, we can start with the first. Yeah, him going to ROX, I think the problem for Mitch is that he didn't, I don't think,

assess or realize like the threat or the danger he was in. Right? And, you know, if you don't have a bigger threat, you're not going to be motivated for action. They always say in sales that someone is going to be, you know, semi motivated by their goals, but they're really going to be moved by, you know, the implication of not moving. Right. Like, what is it costing them? What is that feeling? What is that stress? Whatever that looks like. Right. We're more afraid to lose something than to get something. Exactly, right? And so that I think is the problem is that he didn't realize kind of, and maybe we don't know, you know,

it could be the other way, but the look at this group and how tight that four is, and not to mention Camilla, is that you gotta feel that, you know, this was the right time for him to make a move. And especially, I mean, I guess he doesn time for him to make a move. And especially, I mean, I guess he doesn't know how tight him and Camilla are. And maybe that's part of the case that she should have made Camilla and Kyle. Sorry. But, you know, there's a good chance that there should have been a flip from that side versus his side. Right.

Yeah. So, all right. How do they then go about convincing him? So, you know, it's interesting because, you know, how many times do you know, we loved rocks on 45. You know, Jake was a big advocate. Emily was ready. Like lots of people were ready to go to rocks. And, you know, from experience when I was in the position of trying to convince Katura to go to rocks. Just from like almost like common sense, I just felt like that pitch should not have come from me to really push her because if it comes from the person in jeopardy, it just comes across that drew is

in jeopardy not Katara. No, no, no. In my season when I was going home and it was 3-3 Austin, Julie and Dee, me, Keturah and Jake is what I was thinking about. Okay. And so I was in this position that star was in, right? And so trying to convince Keturah, I just felt like coming across from myself was not the right way to push her because you know, if you're coming from the person who has everything to lose, you know, it's hard to be very believable that you're looking out for someone else's best interest, right? Yeah. So, you know, the idea in sales is when you have this, especially in

larger organizations where you can't sell it every person is you're gonna have a champion, somebody who sells on your behalf, right. And that was Jake, in my season. What I will say looking back on it in hindsight, is that it maybe doesn't matter which person it is, but it should be coming from the person who has the best relationship with the person who's gonna have to make the ultimate decision. So I think that them starting with Star pitching to Mitch

was not probably the best way to do it. Yeah, and I don't even know if they planned it that way. I'm not sure that there was a meeting, It's like, okay, all right. You know, star, you make the first contact with Mitch on this plan. I think that star is just maybe a little impulsive. And it's like, okay, this is the plan. This is it. I got to move. And I'm going to go talk directly to Mitch, where maybe that a huddle maybe might've been like, okay, this is how we're going to Operation Italy this getting Mitch to flip over to us And that was this but it seemed like they did have a huddle right like middle of the night like after tribal council

It was Mary Camilla and star. Yeah, where was everybody else? Mitch was probably with the other group of like hey, it's us five, right? You just probably getting with the other group of like, hey, it's us five, right? You know, you just probably getting sold. Yeah. Council and before. Right. So that was the issue where maybe, yeah, I think that maybe going to whoever he trusted most,

the most probably Camilla maybe might've been the person to sell him better on that. But yeah, he just like, when they told him about it, he was just like, what? Like I would never do that. He was like, he just like when they told him about he was just like what like I would never do that He was close Yeah, which is You know did you guys talk about ghost island last night cuz that's I did say that hey Mitch Laurel and Donovan called

They want their game back Yeah It did give a little bit of you know know, I mean, at least Laura was, you know, I think waffle a few more times, but yeah, he was, he couldn't even believe that it was an offer that was made. Yeah. Yeah. So to go back to that. Okay. So yeah. So Mitch in his confessional, he had a confessional last night where he was talking about, he's's like I know The people at home are saying hey Mitch you gotta make a move

But like like I'm not just gonna do this you can't work with people you don't trust that I want to give a shout out to the producer who said to Mitch Hey Mitch, what do you say to the people at home who are saying, Mitch, you gotta make a move? I don't think that that was an organic thought that Mitch just rattled off in the confessional. Yeah, that's just, you know, that's experience. You know, that's a pro.

I don't know who it maybe was Clark. I don't know who it was. It was a great question. And it was the number one question on everybody's mind Yeah, it's interesting. Do you think that you can make moves with people that you don't trust like where do you fall on that? What choice does he have like I kind of feel like that? Yeah, maybe it doesn't work out but I think that the common theme that I hear from a lot of the survivors and maybe this is how you feel is like I would have rather gone down swinging I would rather lose this game taking a shot that didn't work

rather than looking back at the shot I didn't take. And I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of survivor players and I do feel like that that is a very common sentiment that people have in terms of like when they look back at their survivor game. Yeah. And I, I, I, 100%, I think like it's not even just making the move and playing offense. Um, but it's also, you know, it's, you know, it's going to be a great moment.

You know what I mean? You know, it's going to, uh, you know, be, uh, uh, you know, much more fun to look back on being like, I was playing and pushing and fighting the whole time. Right. Uh, sometimes it's hard when you see, Oh, I can make it to six or five and who knows what will happen. It's unknown. Right. And hope. You know, if people are hopeless, they fight. But if they have hope, they're more likely to stay still. You know? Yeah. And good job by the majority alliance and good job, like, you know, stringing Mitch along that he feels like either I have hope that this big Alliance is going to split up or that he might feel like, hey,

I just need to get to whatever competitive whatever number and then I'm going to beast out in the competitions and you know, win six, five, make a fire and then go to the final three and I'm Gabler. And all of a sudden, I'm going to sneak in and I was Gabler. He's, I mean, that's the Gabler plan, right? Of like, I'm gonna make a fire, it's gonna be so impressive. Yeah, I think the difference, the other difference I think between this alliance and Reba is that I think that this alliance is like a perfect example of like the Onion Alliance strategy, right? Like we have Core Alliance and then we have our external alliance members that are attached on on top of it. Reba never like convinced everybody that the game of 45 was more of a voting block game. Like we're constantly mixing it up. There's no true alliances

when in reality they were the alliance and it was easier to kind of keep everyone confused because you know half of the half of that cast you know was not the biggest fans of each other you know the bellow side and everything else and so you know that was their strategy it's almost like two different ways that a majority of lines kind of confuses their enemies. Now do you think that there will be a move at seven or do you think that I would say that the betting odds probably the chalk pick would be that Mary is going to go home at seven. Yeah, which by the way, for this episode,

when you asked me to come on, Yeah. I was so worried that it was Mary's boot episode, right? As my shot on the dark sister, I was like, oh, this is too clean, like what are the odds? And it was like, oh, this is too clean. What are the odds? And it wasn't. So, yeah, but I'm worried about,

I definitely am worried about Mary. Like they planted every seed in the world in terms of why she's the next person. And I don't know if we've talked about this in the past, but do you feel like that, in the NFL, the coaches get challenges, all right? And if I use my challenges, and I'm right, I win my challenges, I get a third challenge,

I get my challenge back. Don't you think you've successfully hit the shot in the dark, shouldn't you get another shot in the dark? As great as that would be, you know, the tough part about the shot in the dark. As great as that would be, you know, the tough part about the shot in the dark is that losing your vote is it neuters in some ways, a lot of, you know, what you want the punch to be from that moment, right? Because it's not an idol, right? It's a one in six shot, but it does cost you something, right? I think that, you know, having it once and

playing it and playing it successfully, it's probably as as much as you can ask for. Yeah, a lot of things. What's funny about when you play the shot in the dark is that you end up becoming less of a threat than other people who, you know, you look at Jake in my season, you look at Mary this time, because you know that person has no other ammunition. Well, I would say Rachel, after she played hers, then, you know, it was like, okay, well, she doesn't even have the shot in the dark now. We don't have to worry about her. Nobody had a shot in the dark that season, right? She knows she was, she actually, remember she used it, but she had an idol too. And she was like,

played the shot in the dark and then waited to see if anybody had a reaction and then didn't play her idol. Yeah, did you expect them to be like, hey, Jeff, like we want to give you our shots in the dark for Rice this time? Oh, well, the Rice, yeah, that didn't even come up. We could talk about the Rice negotiation in a minute, because I'd like to discuss that a little further with you.

But yeah, so you feel like that maybe because that you get voted out after you play the shot in the dark. It just seems like, okay, well now, you know, I needed to use the shot in the dark in the last vote. Like, you know, give me at least like the opportunity to do it again. It's tough. Yeah, it would be nice. It would be nice to have. It's probably fair the way it's set up, but it's tough because if you play your shot in the dark, I mean, Rachel did it perfectly. People don't think you'll have an idol after that. Like if he had an idol, he would have played it. You know what I mean? So I think there is kind of like an unconscious bias, right? That, you know, you are literally helpless after you play that shot in the dark.

Yeah. It's just like, okay, it's a sitting duck. Let's just get them. And so, and that's what happened with you where it's like, okay, well, just, okay, it's a sitting duck. Let's just get him. And so, and that's what happened with you, where it's like, okay, well, it's next vote, small tribe. Let's go ahead and take him out. Now, all right, rice negotiation, which was like, I was a little surprised that Eden left that in the episode, because it was just such a nothing that happened.

Compared to all the riveting strategic moves. I guess so. This is the right episode. That's what it is. So it's day 19. There's eight people in the game. They wanted three people to sit out of the challenge. I mean, I'm not surprised that nobody wanted to sit out on day 19.

Yeah, it's why do you think after four people just went on reward for chicken and waffles? Yeah, I can't believe it was done so late in the season. after four people just went on reward for chicken and waffles? Yeah, I can't believe it was done so late in the season. Like when you get to the end game, you realize like, you know, I always felt like, you know, the first two days of not eating, I was just on such an adrenaline rush, never felt it.

You know, you start to, I started to really kind of feel weaker on day four or five, day six onwards, you're cruising, you know, even the people who haven't eaten are, you know, able, they know they can make it five, six more days. So at that point, yeah, it's way too late. Like if you're going to do the rice negotiation, which has been fun, I think it just has to be earlier in the season where there's more people and people think that, oh, I can make it past this vote. Like it gets so tight at final set eight final seven, you know Yeah, yeah

I don't know maybe like they could what about instead of like the big burge at or I know they love the burge at or a challenge Okay But what about like we get to merge at ori and then we need people to sit out at? Merge and then the merge tribe is gonna get rice. No, right. There's no merge feast That's the merge We need people to sit out of the first individual immunity challenge to get rice for the post merge. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe they just change it. So that way post merge your rewards, you can choose not to take the reward

and get rice for the tribe. I think people would take the reward. Yeah, you think so? I think so. Because the reward challenges are always like teen, like for the most part, almost always teen. I guess this was individual. So I guess so who wants to sit out of the reward challenge for rice? Yeah. And then it also forces survivors hand that like, you know, you better have some good rewards. Otherwise, people are going to take rice, you know, you want to make that conflicted decision, like let them pick all the people, have four people up there. And it's like, now do you want to give your tribe rice or do you guys want to go on this

fried chicken reward that you just got? Okay, Caleb. So this was a new reward for Survivor. I don't think that they've had this before. And so Jeff introduced the fried chicken and waffles reward and then instructed the players to in a to lead a chant of the fried chicken and waffle song did you like the song? Uh you know it's funny I honestly think that Jeff is just he's you know it's season 48 50s coming he's pushing himself.

You know, he's like, what else could I get them to do? You know, sing for me, dance, you know? He's like, I think that in the moment, it might be a little, like some people were more into it, some people you could tell were dying a little bit on the inside as they were doing it. Yeah, I think some people were into it. I think some other people, it's like,

you ever go to like- I like to go to them, you know? Well, I was gonna say, you ever go to a restaurant and there, well, I was gonna say, like, you ever go to like a restaurant and like, there's like, seven waiters come over and they sing you the happy birthday song, but only like one person's like kind of into it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think that, you know, when I the song, you know, it wouldn't be my I wouldn't be very excited to do it. But I just think it's just Jeff's new way. I wonder what he's going to make the players do next. You know, that's like whatever, like ostensibly like, you know, ridiculous thing just because they're on TV and everyone wants to contribute.

Someone's going to put their foot down at some point. He wants to see how far that they could push the envelope. What are these contestants willing to yes and with me? Like maybe I'll talk in a weird voice. Okay, now I'm going to now let's like like alright everybody you know the chicken and waffle song let's go chicken and waffles but I mean chicken I mean like my number one food that I was missing when I was out there that I was like oh first thing I get home fried chicken so boom So it is a great it is a great reward.

You know, I you know, I wonder how many people were like like Eva was there. Right. She was like searching in all the chips and like everything else. Well, they had no place cards at this reward. Yeah. No names and markers of where everybody was to sit this time. Yeah. But they have enough, Eva has enough advantages. Like they couldn't risk her getting another one. Yeah. Eva loved it when Shaheen took the, like a handful of whipped cream and threw it,

and hit her in the face. She said she was so joyful that that happened. Which shows, if you do something with enough confidence, you can get away with it. You know, like Shaheen was just, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, read the room. You know what I mean? It just took a bit of a risk. He did. She loved it. She loved it. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about, you know, with Star coming out of the game, the decision that Star made earlier

in the game where she gave her idol to Eva as sort of like an olive branch, okay, this is going to buy me something with Eva. It turns out it bought Star nothing. Bupkis. It probably bought her a spot on the jury. It probably bought her a spot on the jury. Maybe it bought her a spot on the jury because, you know, Eva, like really from, she said, I'm going to give you Star on a silver platter. She opened up the thing. And when I spoke with Star this morning, you know, I think that she got a little emotional talking about this in terms of that. She felt like that she had self-doubt in herself

to be able to open the thing and that she was seemed a little bit like not so much that she gave the idol to Eva but she felt like that she had regret that she doubted that she would be able to do it and I was really I could see her getting emotional talking about that and so really, I felt for her in that moment. But in terms of Eva, she gave her the thing. And like I thought at the time, like, yeah, this is a pretty good move because he was going to tell Joe and then they're going to say, hey, that this is, this is a good person.

Let's keep her with, she's with us. Let's get her in the Alliance. Ultimately, no, not even a sniff of the Alliance for Star. And then Eva, like, seemed to like be very adamant about Star. She said if I if she wins immunity, I have no issue with what Eva is, how she is playing. Like, that's all like, that's all well and good. I just like, what I don't, I just don't like the morality of that Eva still straight faced talks about how this is the alliance of the good honest loyal people when that it seemed like that there's some cognitive dissonance of like yeah, I kind of Yeah, and I'll choose my words carefully like just like took stars idol and yes

It was a gift but there was no law of reciprocity There in terms of like I maybe it was the gift like, okay, charity was the merge Tory boot instead of star. Yeah. Like basically star played her idol by like, instead of giving it to Uncle JP, I'm going to give it to you. Which would have been a great moment. Yeah, I think that, you know, you mentioned like Star has self doubt and like that was maybe like

part of the reason why she gave it to Eva. And it almost that first time I thought of it was it reminded me of like Eric in season 26. Yeah. Giving his idol to Andrea. You know what I mean? Like where it comes from is probably something in there. Right?

But yeah, the thing about Survivor. Well, but his, I mean? Like where it comes from, it's possibly something in there. Right. But yeah, the thing about survivor, well, but his, I mean, his doubt comes from, like, go back to season 16 when he gave the necklace away where he's like, Hey, I don't want any part of this. This is like bad juju. I don't want, I don't want to idle. Yeah. Eric's, you know, it starts like, why do you have the self doubt? Derek's is a little bit more, you know, clear, right? But yeah, when it comes to survivors, the biggest takeaway is like nothing is, you can never assume anything is implied. It has to be like an out loud, explicit understanding. Quid pro quo. There, and I'm not saying quid pro quo, but I think that, you know, giving an idol to Eva, like, can we DTR? Can we define this relationship?

I love it. Like, what am I expecting from you by giving you this? And I think that Star, naturally, in the love, she's a Felsail's girl, actually, you know? Love, I suppose, she's like, well, of course Eva's gonna look out for me. I just gave her the most powerful tool in this game. But because she never actually explained

and said specifically, this is what this means. I feel like Eva could trick or like loophole herself, you know, maybe Kyle's her lawyer, right? And say that, well, all you did was want friendship. All you did was want, you know, a friend after this game or, you know, somebody to look out for you in the near future, but we're not going to the end together. That was never the plan, right? So maybe that is probably the problem that Star had with just giving her the idol without talking it through. Yeah. I think what is a little hard with this is

it seems like they just don't like Star. Not necessarily that Star is a threat. They seem to want to have her out of the game. Yeah, like she's bothering them. Yeah, I wonder if, you know, you've probably been in the spot. I've been in the spot, you know, where you're fun, you like to joke around, you're, you know, the like part comedian, you know what I mean? You know, this integrity alliance, the honor loyalty group strength, they are all talking about how it's gonna be so hard

to turn on each other, because they shared all these outside bonding things together, you know? Like, do you wonder that star, you know, in her lighthearted self never let herself get to those places with those people. And so because of that, there's just an implied worry that I don't trust her as much as I trust all these other people who've been open with her. Yeah, I also feel like that Star is a little bit of like a...

Star will say what's on Star's mind, like, and there was like a secret scene from last week, so Star was like asking people like, so who's your final three? Who's your final three? Whereas like Mitch would never. Like Mitch is like, you know, is very like content to sort of like, you know, sit in maybe a little bit more of like the uncomfortable silence of like, okay, well, I don't want to say anything because I don't want to make anybody mad about that. But Star, and that's as she's trying to make anybody mad,

but is maybe like a little bit more willing to call things out like, oh, so you four people have a, are going to the final three, right? And maybe that's just off-putting to the people who want to keep things nice and quiet and calm. Yeah, Star is a newer fan, right? I believe so. Post so, you know, I it's almost like you think about her you think about David some of these people who are kind of making some of these mistakes of Kind of pushing people in a way that is you know making them feel you like there There's have to show their hand and that's the last thing you want to do if you don't feel like you can trust someone yet

You know if you don't feel like you can trust someone yet, you know, if you're, you know, you don't want to jump into all these things unless you like have first kind of take me out for dinner first. Let's get a drink, you know, right before we, you jump into, you know, whatever you want to do with me, you know, so I wonder if, you know, she kind of got ahead of herself, just being real as opposed to kind of reading where the relationship was first, you know? Here we're at the final seven. How do you see the rest of the season going down? It's there's going to be so I still think personally that Kyle and Camilla are that secret alliance number ones with each other. We've gotten so much of it.

It would be crazy if they clipped each other anytime soon. I don't think that they'll clip each other, but I definitely just felt like after last night's episode that there was a deep prioritizing of the number ones. Like it felt like a little bit like to me, like that Kyle was treating Camilla like she's his number five. And I push back on that a little bit. Oh, too much time with Emily. Maybe. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, Kyle kind of understands, you know, if if they take out Joe, who's going after Camilla?

Yeah, she pulled the move, but you know, it was like there's three or four people pushing that move, you know, she's not going to be that Kyle is going to be Kyle Shaheen. Like they're going to be so obviously targeted and then the upcoming rounds, you know, having that buffer, I think for him, he, you know, while he wanted to work with Camilla, it just wasn't the right timing for him to make that move yet. Well, I think that they're still going to stick together. I think that they're going to stick together. I think Joe and Eva are going to stick together. So the question is going to be, do the pairs turn on each other or ultimately is that going to be, they're going

to be working together? I'm so excited to see if Kyle will take the shot at Shaheen. And, you know, what do you think about this Shaheen making alliances, all these alliances with people at the bottom and, you know, in roads? I love to see it. I really do. But I am a little concerned that maybe he's not necessarily planning a insurgency or some sort of Shaheen vote flip, I'm a little concerned that he is just doing jury management. Yeah, I think that picking up people on the bottom, we love to see it. And you do that usually for one of two reasons, right? Usually one, because you want to make a move.

And he's such a fan, that's what we jump to, right? And then the other is so that way you're not the move. So then if they, if they do get the numbers, they don't pick me first. Yeah. Okay. All right. So that, um, defensively as opposed to offensively. Yes. Um, and you know, at this point, if he doesn't make like, know yeah okay my wheels are turning a little bit here okay all right that maybe this could be what changes everything is it possible that Shaheen ends up that I've been looking at okay Kyle is going to try to that he is going to pick up the people at the bottom and he's gonna take the shot at Shaheen but I was a little concerned after he talked about

how much the four is really such a good spot for him maybe he's not going to do that but going back to in the vote where Cedric went home Kyle and Camilla they were talking about like is there any way we could get Shaheen voted out here? And they said, oh, well, what if we can sort of like make it seem like he's doing something that they're, that we're responding to. But what if they don't even have to make it seem that? What if Shaheen starts talking to Mary and Mitch and Camilla and says hey the plan tonight we're making the flip we're gonna take out Kyle my

biggest competition to sit with in the final three with Joe and Eva and so then Camilla gets word of that to Kyle and now Kyle is like oh baby it's on and then he actually now feels like that okay well now I have the the reason the motive to now be able to come to go to you know to Joe and Eva and say hey Shaheen is doing this or you know steal those other people on the bottom or if Camilla flips over to them now all of a sudden maybe Camilla's in the four with Kyle where it's the two pairs maybe going to the final four where it's like Shaheen might be thinking hey I've got

Mitch I've got Mary and I've got Camilla to vote out Kyle. Meanwhile, it's Camilla that flips to vote with Kyle and Joe and Eva against Shaheen. I think I actually my hair kind of stood up a little bit. Even more. I love it. I think I love what they tried to do in the Cedric vote. It's the last time I promised I'll bring up Tony and Kagey on but when he was flipping flipping on LJ, what did he do?

He goes and he talks to him and he's like, so what are you scared of? What are you thinking next? And got him to say woo, just so he had a reason to go back to his alliance in terms of why he flipped on them trying to do that. If they can manufacture, and I think it'll be really easy to trick Shaheen into doing this, but there's also a real chance that he might actually do it, whether it's targeting Kyle or targeting Joe. And so I love this. That might be how Mary can save her sack, get saved.

You have such a connection with Mary over the shot in the dark. Oh, it's a, well, there's a couple of things, you know, because first of all, you know, I don't know if you remember or know this, but Mary in the pre-season said that the person she wanted to play like was me. You? Yeah. And she took that assignment too seriously.

Yeah. Big loser tribe energy, right? Plays the shot in the dark successfully. Yeah. You know, it's being talked about as a threat on TV. She did too good of a job. Like I recommend people to pick so, like pick winners for this in the future, right?

Okay. But I, oh sorry. Yeah, I was gonna ask you more about Mary. Yeah, no, I mean, Mary is a kindred spirit to me because, you know, we have like this like the 17th place group chat club and the zero vote finalist club. And so it's such a fun room here being in the shot the dark played successfully club.

Like what a draft pick that I could, we could have picked up. And is Jamie Lynn Ruiz in your group chat also? You know, it's kind of like if you follow the NBA, Steve Kerr, he's the all time leader in three point percentage, but he has like a quarter of the makes as everybody else. You know what I mean? It's like he's in the club, you know, but, you know, you know, it's multiple group chats.

He's not. Yeah, he's not Stephen Curry. You know what I mean? Or Kyle Korver or Klay Thompson in terms of like they did like, you know, it's a multiple group chats. He's not yeah, he's not Stephen Curry You know what I mean or Kyle Corver or clay Thompson in terms of like they did like, you know Four thousand or two thousand threes or whatever it is, right? Yeah, I would say yeah, I was a Even thinking about kind of because they have this the 17th place group chat. I was gonna But I ended up not doing this but I was gonna bring to Boston like a WWE style like championship belt Oh I was gonna say like safe on it and I was gonna give it to Mary is kind of like you hold on to this until The next person plays and then he passed it on. Mm-hmm

Yeah, you know, I had all sorts of ideas for it, but then I you know, I just such a procrastinator I didn't end up getting a chance to pull it off in time So I was like, oh well, but I thought it would have been kind of a fun little memento. Yeah. Now, speaking of the different NBA players, have you seen this, uh, clip that's floating around of Mitch that, uh, this is him. He's doing like, uh, the Kimbe Mutombo. Have you seen this? Right. Isn't it the same? He's doing it like a no, no, no, like, uh, Right. Isn't it the same? He's doing it like a no, no, no. Like, Speaker 3rd- so hard. I, I, I love that. Seeing exactly. It was a, you know, it's a Kenby

Matumbo. He was another person who blocked everything. Exactly. I always like watching him in the challenges. I know where like the, the consensus is he's great. He's great challenger. Yeah. And I don't think he's the greatest of the challenges. What I think he is, is he's a closer closer. Yeah. Yeah. He has that clutch G, you know, inside of him. So didn't close the vote last night. You know, Doc Rivers is a great coach. Five games this season, right? So what can you do?

Yeah. Okay. All right. But so for Mary, do you think that there is a future for Mary in this game? It's hard to see her path forward at this point. Whatever it is, it's eliminating the people who are saying her name the most. And I'll mute that. What are you getting, a Slack blow up? Yeah, technically this is a work state. Merck's Jaffer on Slack. Yeah, every medium.

But yeah, you know, in my season, I remember the, like, thinking to myself the whole time, like, it doesn't matter if someone says my name, because if it makes sense to vote with them, like we should vote together. And you know, you look at D, the person who won, or Jam Jam, or some of these people, like, if you see my name, you got to go. She doesn't have the power to be able to do that. But I do think that like, if you leave a Joe in the game, which I'd love to talk about Joe and Mary on the beach together, you know, or an Eva, like, your name is always going to be at the front of the line. And so if you can kind of like weaken that side, who's like clearly against her, you know, that's what she has to do. So whatever that alliance looks like, that's where she has to go.

Okay. Well, tell me about your reaction to that conversation that Joe had with Mary, where he kind of explains to her like, Hey, everybody feels like that you were the bad influence on David. You know, I feel like Joe has been so dominant this whole season. Like I can't even really tell you how many misses, missteps he's had. This is the first time that I was like, this feels like a miss in terms of how we went about it, right? Um, I don't know what you felt about it, but I feel like if you are kind of reaching out to somebody,

kind of like Eva, when she was talking to Mary, at least Eva was like, I'm trying to be genuine here. Like he was talking to her about the fact that one of us is gonna be on the jury. You know what I mean? Like you have to at least, like the nicety of pretending that this is not what that, you're not looking to potentially jury manage her.

But I think that Joe has done this consistently because I think that I can recall with say back when that they were on the split tribal council that say was like, hey, like, like, can you and I talk he's like, yeah, we're, go ahead, you're we're right here. Like he was not really like giving say I felt like too much of an audience I was just basically like well if you wanted to say something, I'm right here Just say what he was say what's on your mind But I didn't really feel like that he was really like paying her a lot of attention Yeah, and I think that that's actually been one of like the strong parts about his game

Is that because he's not even entertaining some of these conversations where he knows the problem attention Yeah, and I think that that's actually been one of like the strong parts about his game Is that because he's not even entertaining some of these conversations where he knows the problem with survivors that everyone's to keep every door open And when you do that it makes people insecure about which door you're gonna take so what Joe's really good I think is making decisions early on in terms of I'm taking this door I'm closing that door and what he did would say there is probably exactly what he should have done Right because she's going home, and she doesn't need to create any other insecurity in his alliance. Yeah, she's not going to the jury She's not even going to the jury. Otherwise, he would have been like hey one of us is gonna be there Yeah, so I think with Mary

The problem was is that you know if he's going to kind of talk to her from a place of giving her advice or being A friend it has to come from a place of genuinely, helping her, right? Or in some finnium way, not, hey, I'm telling you this so that way, hopefully you can remember this for a vote. It reminds me like what's famous jury pandering, you remember our boy, Yul Kwan? Of course. With panders hat. Yeah. And every time people were like, this is so obviously this guy is working the jury. And he's like, no, he wanted his hat. I wanted to give him his hat. Cause he said it was important to him. Like you have to at least pretend and put on the face. Even if you don't,

even if nobody believes it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Penner was happy to get it. I'd like to get my head back, please. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. He was like one of the only guys I think who probably spoke from the jury. I was like, thank you. Yeah. So yeah, look, you're not even supposed to be doing this. Do you feel like the people were pantering to you on the jury? You know, I was so early, you know, I think that the jury working happens later and closer to the end. You think Rachel interviewing everybody and getting all of their games and stuff, right?

It doesn't happen so early because I don't think people are ready to show their hand yet. I also had half the group. So it was also a little bit different in that way as well. All right. Well, what about in terms of Joe? We haven't talked too much about him. He feels like that there is an inevitability around Joe. Are you sensing that also? Yeah, I mean, this guy is so dominant right now is how I feel. You know, he kind of reminds me of a little bit of a less

cares like a less charismatic version of Tom Westman in some ways in terms of how the season is going for him. Which isn't saying much, you know, because Tom is just like one of the most charismatic guys ever, right? But I feel like looking at Joe, the difference between him and, you know, and Tom, one of the things I feel like it's like,

we're seeing him like kind of father on TV versus lead. You know, Tom, you know, like if Eva screwed something up, Joe would be like, I love you no matter what. Right. And if Tom's screwed up in Tom's alliance, he he hold them a little bit more accountable. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a very good comparison because I think that there is Joe has done a very good job in this game. And I feel like that both of them have a charisma about them, but there's different types of charisma.

And I think that what Joe has is just this like quiet, strong confidence where he's just a rock. He's like unmovable. And I think that in a game that's as chaotic as Survivor, I think a lot of people are just drawn into the gravity of his stillness. Whereas Tom was you know to your point more of a personality you know that there was like a little bit more of like a twinkle in his eye and I like how you said that he was like a leader he's like a Captain Kirk. You know, he's somebody that like people were willing to follow as opposed to that Joe, I feel like this has more of like a gravity

that people are just drawn to him because, OK, he's obviously in charge. Yeah, the tough part for Joe is not necessarily like where he's come to right now, although I still don't like good for him. Like it's, you know, third immunity as well. But everything he's doing with his alliance, but it's almost this next stage of the game where you have to lie or get it like the numbers of the end game that I feel like this archetype almost like a, I don't know.

Would you say Mike Turner in 42? Like, you know. Yeah. I think though that Mike, if I was gonna like be like adjusting the levers, like I almost feel like that Mike has like, Mike's a big personality, you know, that he is, you know, loud in a good way.

He's like, I think he's a fun guy to be around. I think that for Joe, I think he's a fun guy to be around. I think that for Joe, I think he has less of that. Yeah, for sure. I just meant more so in the sense of when Mike got to the end of the game, he could have won. But because he couldn't really like wrap his head around about like when he lied or when he was duplicitous, that the jury couldn't didn't think like there's a disconnect from his game. And I wonder with Joe, at this point when he has to start lying and stuff,

you know, this is the part where he could lose it. But right now I feel like he's in the front runner, right, in the chances of getting there. Especially if he was gonna play an idol on him. Yeah, I think that just having that like self perception of being able to not just, you know, read everybody else, but also be able to read how everybody else sees you is so key. I think that, Mike, that that was a flaw that he had.

It will remain to be seen if that's a flaw for Joe. But I definitely think that if we're going to talk about like red flags, like that might be one of them where that if he does see himself as this person who has stayed true, as we saw with David last week. And I thought that was such an interesting conversation, where you saw that really, that was like a real, like, major issue for Joe, when David said, yeah, you went back on your word. And he said to him, like, point blank, like, I'm not capable of doing that. And he said to him, like, point blank, like, I'm not capable of doing that. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was possibly the worst thing that he could have said. Yeah. Right. There was no coming back from that. No coming back. And, you know, he to be fair, he had, you know, fumbled a couple of different areas, you know, in terms of like how he socially was like, like talking about his,

his strategy, or his his plan to take a backseat, which didn't really happen, right. But I don't know, David is kind of like to me. I don't know, I feel like there's a self fulfilling prophecy that, you know, the more that you the more that you think that you're the threat, the more you act like the threat. I always feel like in sales, the first thing that they teach, everyone thinks it's always a discovery, is it this, is it that? It's all mindset.

If I was to give any advice to anybody who is coming into the game, who sees themselves potentially as a threat, is to like, that's not how you should consider yourself. You really should consider yourself whether it's, you know, the underdog or you see this person's like, yeah, these are my flaws. Because the more that you see that, you don't see anyone else on how they're the threat, you know? And I think Joe does that actually pretty well. He just sees himself as like everybody else, even though he's clearly one of the biggest threats in the game right now. You know, you know, I'm so interested in hearing about

like the things that you've learned from your work in terms of Survivor. Now, were you always into Survivor first and then found that those were things that helped you in your work? Or were you already, I remember from your preseason interviews that you've had so many different lines of work. Did you then find survivor and felt like that that was something that sort of like really overlapped with what you were already doing? Yeah.

So I originally watched Big brother. Yes. Right. So I did that when I was younger. And you know, it's it's kind of like you're growing up and it's like, are you a big brother guy or survivor guy? So I was like, I'm cool on survivor. I got my my thing back in the glory days, you know. And I found survivor around the time actually before I was officially in sales. I the reason I got into sales is I had all these lines of work and I was a lifeguard and I got my first job at 13, I was always kind of working, but I started a painting business at 17,

that, and then a security business and a Christmas light business. And that's kind of how I paid for college and kind of paid for my life. And as much as I enjoyed running a business and having, being a leader and having employees and stuff, I actually didn't. All those detail-oriented tasks and managing and getting into spreadsheets was not my favorite part. What I was great at was connecting with people on the sales

side of things. I was wondering, how could I potentially lean in on my greatest skill as opposed to be so diversified in everything I'm trying to learn. Yeah. Right? And this connected right around the time I was getting into Survivor. So it was fun timing. I was going back and watching the seasons. And you know, I think everybody, no matter where you come from,

is going to connect what they do with the show and their experience. But sales is just so applicable in so many ways. Yeah. Because obviously, like sales is every part of life. So you found in your work that, okay, here's where my superpowers are. And I really want to focus there as opposed to trying to round out the rest of my skills in what I'm not so good at. Do you feel like, is that how survivor players should be looking at their game

of like really trying to drill down on, this is like the one or two areas where I'm really good, and then let me not try to put as much energy into those other things I'm not as good at? You know, it's difficult because I feel like in Survivor, the thing that you don't want to ignore are your blind spots, right? And if you are weak in some areas, you need to almost be hyper conscious in terms of how that is affecting other people, you know, even more than just your strengths.

You know, so I don't know if that's necessarily the case. But you know, I definitely feel like looking back on my experience, you know, I was pulling back a lot by the end. And if anything, you know, I wish I almost like push more, you know, shine brighter. Yeah, well, I wouldn't go that far. Why not? Why not, though? Katera at the end, it's like, I wish I kind of was the person who was like, really like having those conversations with her and like really kind of putting her through every reason. And, you know, I was trusting a lot more of Jake with that. And, you know, kind of like the champion that I had mentioned. And in hindsight, you know, I wish I kind of like just realized like this is what I'm here for. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Rather than try to be as well-rounded yourself, could you find an ally? Is there a way to do it with other people? Yeah. I think that, you know, you look at Survivor, you look at this season, and it's just, and you look at Reba. You know the most annoying part about talking to the Reba for? What? Is that they're like, Survivor was so easy.

Like the whole time, they were like, this is just a cakewalk. They joke about it all the time. And you just want to strangle them, you know? And I bet you, and I don't know this, but if you talk to these guys, they're probably like, that was the whole time, you know, like there's a clear strategy that works. And I feel like, you know, building it aligns like that is the way that you like should want to come into Survivor. And that's why quietly for Survivor 50, I am worried that the new era is going to be kind of cooked because they don't have, you know, the roots of that compared

to these old era players, you know? Yeah. But do you feel like that the new era players will know each other better? Like I kind of of feel... I don't know... Like, that's not necessarily how I see it. I feel like that... I think that the old era is more likely to get pantsed by the new era. Really? Yeah. I feel like... In that, I think that there are...

Like, there may be people from the old era that, who have not been keeping on top of, like, what's been going on, like, week in, week out on Survivor. And for certain old era players to try to play the new era game, I'm just, I would be very concerned. I think a lot of them, their head might be spinning. Yeah, I think that I look at the new era and I think that there's going to be like, apart from the fact that there might not be as many numbers, I think there's always going to be like, it's a very insecure group, you know, about like, can I trust this person or should I trust,

like there's going to be, I think, you know, a lot more like space between the numbers versus the old era, I think, apart from the fact that some of them known each other for five years, 10 years, 20 years together. So they have all these roots. I just think that they have a level of, you know, you almost, you look at this group, probably part of the reason why it's doing so well

is because everyone's a little bit older, you know? There's an understanding and people are working much tighter together sure That's likely to happen with the old era I don't think what happens at winners of war happens again because I think everyone saw winners of war Yeah, but I feel like that the winners in war playing field I think was like probably a little bit more even where not to do a whole survivor 50 preview now where I feel like that I just could see even if like an old era has numbers, I would think that they would be especially vulnerable to not seeing that next Operation Italy coming where it's like, oh, they're not even thinking that

somebody has the block of vote and that this other thing is there. And even if they feel like, hey, we've got our six people. Like, what are they going to do? We have six. You know, I feel like that they are very vulnerable to, like, all the... And maybe it will break in their favor if the fan vote comes in, no twists, no advantages. If it comes along that way,

and then it's a little bit more of a straightforward game, I think that plays to their strength. But like, the more like bells and whistles there are I think the more likely it is I think that some old-era players will not even know what's waiting around the corner for them. Yeah I think that you know I don't want to Operation Italy was almost like a miracle that it got pulled off you know what I mean like it was such high level. And I'm using Operation Italy as like, you know, sort of just like a terminology for like a next level plan

that wasn't right in front of the faces of people. And I think that I think that some of these people who have been out the game for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years years that and some of them maybe were not even that capable of spotting that plan when they were, you know, in their younger days, I think could be walking into an ambush in a lot of ways. Yeah. And so it's interesting, you know, we'll see what happens on the other side, you know, my and you know, it's fun to see you're on one side of the spectrum. I'm on the other. I think that, you know, I think that the new era is cooked. So we'll see that that goes, unfortunately.

Yeah, I have some questions for you from the listeners. OK, and so we haven't talked too much about Camilla. OK, Will Harrington has a question for you from the listeners. Okay. And so we haven't talked too much about Camilla. Okay. Will Harrington has a question for you. What should a player do if they don't fit the narrative slash meta of their season? In this case, Camilla wanting to play strategic when everybody else wants to stay loyal. Yeah, this really was probably the worst season in the 40s for Camilla to have gotten cast on. Yeah, I think so. You know, Camilla. She gotten cast on. Yeah, I think so.

You know, Camilla. She wanted to play a very fluid game. She said in her preseason, she's like, I don't want to be on a boring season. I want to be on a season that's very fluid, where moves are happening. Camilla, we have some bad news for you. Yeah, well, I'll say this.

You know, some people talk the talk. She's trying to walk the walk. Yes. Right? And she's kind of moving. And I don't begrudge her at all. I think that she's done the best she has with like you know her her poker hand has not been great. Yeah. She's still at the table. Still at the table you know what I mean? Her chips are running you know getting lower and lower compared to some of the people there you know what I mean? But she's

bluffing still. She's doing everything that she can. Right. I think that, yeah, I mean, I love Camilla is like the type of game that I like I root for watching and same with Kyle as well, kind of like more of like a social and strategic viewpoint on the game. Right. And, you know, when you're on the outside of like the meta, or just outside of the numbers, right, I think that, you think that the best thing that you can do is just make yourself invaluable to one or two people on the inside, as high on the totem pole as you can. And the closer you can get there and find some protection,

the more time that hopefully passes where you can hopefully find a crack to be able to walk through. But you have to be able to, you have to be ready to walk through that crack and not just, you know, forget that you're playing, like it forgets that you're playing someone else's game for show. Right. I think, and I think she will do that if she has the opportunity. She tried today. Unfortunately, she didn't, she couldn't, you know? Yeah. I don't think she's going to go down without a fight. I think that she'll like make a move if it's there. I know that I had I was reading in the comments

Yesterday to respond to that. I said I gave Camilla a pass after What went on and I saw some pushback of like Rob? Why do you give her a pass just because Mary wanted to vote out Kyle Why didn't she say to Mary? Okay, what about Eva? Why don't we try to get get the four people to vote? But that Mitch wasn't going along with this no matter what. There was no scenario where Mitch was going to vote with Star. Yeah. And that probably is where I don't know how she spent her time in that day. And maybe that's kind of if you were to give her any flack for this episode, it's maybe like, could she have still found a way to talk to Mitch and just be highlight, you know, where they are in the game together? Right.

And given him maybe a little bit more confidence that if they go to rocks, you know, here's maybe why somebody might flip. Right. You look at Eva, she has, you know, safety without power. She has an idol. Is she really going to go to rocks for somebody when she could flip with all that ammunition and probably make it to the end of the game? You know, you look at Kyle, who she has a connection with, you know, along with Mitch from their original tribe, like, hey, we could maybe plant the seed with Kyle and see, you know, I just don't know. Like if Mitch was worried that if we go to rocks, we're going to lose. Like I'm going to have to put my hand in a bag.

You know, that's one thing about making a decision. But could you have maybe lowered that chance for him? And could Camilla have tried some of that? Maybe. Yeah. And Mitch might not be giving Camilla the time of day where he's like, why would I talk to you? You're not even in power.

Yeah. I'm going to hang out with Joe. I got to hang out with Shaheen. I hang out with my strong people. Yeah. You know, as challengers, you know. Mm hmm. OK. Yeah. All right. Cedric Shady updates. Do you wish that there was a Caleb updates account when you played like had star updates? You know, I, I was fine with what happened on the internet

during my season to me like, I like to stay away from it, you know, keep my feet on the ground, so to speak, in terms of I don't know, just there's so much you can read about any of your season yourself. So, you know, Star Updates is perfect for, you know, Star. Yeah. Okay. So Cedric Shady Updates says, as someone who caught 11 votes at one tribal, how should someone try to fight against the anybody but me hive mind? How do you fight back against that? Whenever it's like, nope, I'm just making the safe move. Like, you know what, Chrissy, all right, that's it.

Everybody's writing your name down. We're all going with this. Yeah, I think that you saw a lot of votes, you know? And I think it kind of like forces your hand because the one strategy, like depending on where you are in the hierarchy, like some people get all the votes for different reasons. For me, it was because they wanted me out. And I was, people deemed it a threat. And so you kind of have to almost, like for me, what I was thinking was I just have to be honest about like how I see

the structure in the game and try and pull these outside people together against, you know, what I thought was a rebook group. And unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to but I think that your opportunity is you can either try and, you know, find becoming valuable to a new ally, lay low or, you know, play offense. Yeah. And because if you're going home anyways, you might as well play offense. So where is the game? Who is at the bottom of our group and be able to try and flip those numbers?

And I think it's such a hard question for people because I think that the temptation is to be like we saw with Chrissy where it's like, can't you all see what's happening here? Like hello. Like what are you doing? Like I think that people end up they're like, OK, we're not necessarily interested in that. But I do wonder if there is like a play and maybe this is like maybe what Mitch is trying to do of like to like go to the top and sort of like say like, hey, like, like, you know, maybe is there like some can I make myself valuable to you in some other way?

Where maybe they're like, oh, actually, like, like, maybe there is this other thing that maybe I want to do. Maybe you can sort of like give yourself like make yourself valuable to the people who are the decision makers, as opposed to try to rally all the scared people on the bottom to make a move. It's so scary. It's so hard to rally the bottom. The bottom ain't rallying. Yeah, they scurry. They're scared. That's why they're on the bottom in the first place. Exactly. Yeah, it's almost like maybe go for the top or go for the middle. You know what I mean? Who's like the bottom of the core alliance potentially to make a bigger. Maybe there is some sort of like coup from inside maybe or maybe go to the people at the top if there's like maybe they want to sort of like take out somebody like a squeaky

wheel. Yeah, exactly. I think I think yeah, it's a tough spot to be in, you know, but I think you have to lean on, you know, your and then it's also people make these decisions in silos. Sometimes you really should be who are my closest people who what numbers do I have because a landslide vote does not necessarily mean that every single person was against you. Right. And, you know, understanding as a group, like, what other paths do you see for me as well?

Especially if you have allies that you can trust to share information like Kyle and Camille are constantly doing for each other. Right? Yeah. So lots of different ways to play it. I think that like in the case of Christy, I think that when she's like leading the charge against Joe and that, you know, it's very hard for anybody for when the person at the top is like, hey,

that's what we're doing here today. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the problem. You go to the person in the top who has all the power and already has a path to the end already. It may be hard to get them off that path. Right. Yeah. Okay. This is from Hudson Webb, who asks, do you think that Shaheen believes he could win a final three with Joe and Eva? The guy has a lot of confidence he's a debater right yeah, I saw on Instagram He's like giving people opinion like I saw that right a compelling speech, you know Maybe he does think that but if you're looking at the game, I don't know how you reasonably can look at

kind of like comparable resumes, you know what I mean? He could say, I was the only one who kept this, I could have flipped this whole time, but I don't know how he could think that. So you have to think he's gonna make a move at some point. I think that he definitely sees Kyle as part of his end game, although I don't know if Kyle sees Shaheen as part of his end game.

I just feel like to me, it's almost like that it's I'm trying to think of the right analogy for this. But I kind of feel like that for like that Kyle and Shaheen are sort of like brothers to me in that. And it's like that both are trying to be like the one that's like succession of like, who's dad gonna leave the business to? And I think that the two of them are sort of like jockeying for position of who is dad's favorite. Only one of them can go to the final three with Joe and Eva and both of them are sort of like blocking each other from it.

And they work together to get out David, the common enemy. But I do feel like that for I think it's unlikely that either of them ever takes a shot at Joe but I do feel like that at some point they look at each other yeah I I completely agree I think also when it comes to okay now we have to turn on our allies not just the enemy you know it's the more the more reasons you have in terms of why I turned on you, you know, the easier it'll be. And I think Kyle just has such a layup with the he searched my bag and I knew it the time yada yada yada. Like, there's, you know, no doubt in my mind that I think that even though they're jockeying for the same position, I think Kyle is ready to

jump move sooner on that versus Shaheen, who I think could still be weighing like, when do I take out Joe and Eva? Right. I just, I don't think that he would. I feel like that going back to, I mean, Joe was part of his original Alliance. You know, I had seen also on X.com, some criticism of Kyle of like, why would you go be in a four person alliance with three people that were from the same starting tribe? Like, aren't you feeling like that you are clearly four out of four? Yeah, I mean, especially when Shaheen was also targeting him. Right. But, you know,

I think that you also have to give a little bit of credit of just Kyle's ability to read the room and just kind of look at Joe and be like, like I get Joe, you know? And he's also, it feels like to me, been planting these seeds against Shaheen through other people and throughout the season, right? That Shaheen is this big

threat that he is kind of like this sketchy, kind of like almost Shaheen was doing with David. You know what I mean? I always hear like Shaheen's this big threat, Shaheen's this big threat. And it's kind of reminds me, it's always hard to kind of show so much social game on Survivor. You know what I mean? And so I wonder if he's just confident in the fact that Joe will turn on Shaheen before he ever turns on him. I don't know. It's a big gamble. Like I, because I don't think that Joe's gonna turn on anybody. Did you see how Kyle did that challenge with the blocks? Like this is a gambling guy. This guy always slinging.

Tell me how he did it. Well, he was just, I think, and I mean, you always kind of zone out a little bit sometimes in the challenges, but he was, you know, in double and triple speed of everybody else. He was doing like multiple laps, you know what I mean? Catching up to people like that. And you know, I guess his vices are not just underage drinking. You know, I was like, he's a gambler. I know, you listen, I like the craft table, blackjack.

I was like, I know the energy, you know, and I bet you this guy's just taking some calculated risks. Yes. Now, have you ever done this challenge at a beach drop or anything? No, I have not. Yes. OK, how do you think you would be at it?

I think if you have like kind of good touch, you'll be all right. Yeah. I tried it one time at one of these events where they have the challenges. And I had just know, I did. I tried it one time at one of these events where they have the challenges and I had just seen, I think I remember Sydney in Survivor Co. wrong, won this challenge and she went very slow and I got smoked. Yeah, I think like, I mean, without having played it, the strategy is you kind of want to go a little bit faster at the beginning because you have the most leeway.

Yeah, right. Understand the moment like how it rocks back and forth and where the sweet spot is. And then as you get higher, you slow down. Did you like when they went to like super slow-mo when Joe was going backwards and then the fly landed on his forehead? You know, they always do a great job of kind of doing editing the same challenge, because it's the same challenge, right? It's like, what are we gonna focus on this time

that's a little bit different, right? The level of focus. And so I always appreciate them kind of like trying to put twists on something that we may already know, but just from a different way of looking at it. You know, I like to try something for the same challenges. Yeah. What do you think about Star moving forward?

Do you think they will ever see Star back on Survivor? I don't know. I don't know. You know what? Coming into like the first few episodes, I was like, Star is fine. You know, I wasn't blown away by Star right away, but the more time that we saw her, the more like she really won me over kind of throughout,

especially the sly, like, you know, laughing, you know, kind of not necessarily, there's like a Southern thing that I think that she was, you know, I just, I don't know, like, just slinging it a little bit unassuming, like a little bit unthreatening, but just having her way of kind of getting her point across all the time. So I it's it's so tough to say it's like you look at what like what category you are, where we fit in.

Yeah, but I really I think that she was such a breath of fresh air, especially in this season where there's a lot of group think where I think that she was just such an original and she was like in so many different ways where it's like oh this person is the new this person this person is the new person and I think that you have this also that I think that you know you are you were like the first Caleb and I don't think that necessarily that you were like like a carbon copy of another person that we've seen before and I think that star was just an original I don't think that necessarily that you were like a carbon copy of another person that we've seen before And I think that star was just an original. I don't think that there's been another star. I Appreciate that might I got a couple monikers. I was called Walmart Wendell a couple times and no, but you're so different than Wendell

Yeah, but uh, yeah, I think star is an original. I think I completely agree with that. I think it's also tough when you look at like, how many people are they gonna cast from the same season as well, right? Like almost like where in her season is she in the pecking order more than she is like in the history of the show? Yeah.

You see her as like a top three person most likely to come back? From this season, you know, I haven't really thought about who I would most like to see come back, but I think that, you know, I haven't really thought about who I would most like to see come back, but I think that, you know, she would be such an interesting person to bring back because I feel like that you, that she is just such a wild card

of you don't know necessarily like, how is she going to be in a new season? And I feel like you have so many people that are like super like strategy people, but I think that, you know, in terms of like whatever category I put star in, in terms of like more of like a wild card, like breath of fresh air, like I don't know if there's too many other people that I would put in that bucket. So I don't know, like in terms of like a Joe or Eva to bring them back, it's

like, I feel like I've kind of seen it. Like, and maybe that there's part of them in terms of like, you know, you have people who maybe it's not necessarily like the personality, but it's their story of like, okay, where you end up like coming up just short, or, you know, end up getting like, totally screwed in a big way. And that's part of that's like, okay, well, I need to see like the next chapter of that story. But I feel like in terms of like as far as the gameplay goes, I don't know if there's a ton of

people that I'm saying that I definitely need to have come back. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. We'll see. Sometimes I think is another person who is like, you know, but these are people that are more it's it's not so much I think what they've done in terms of like this has not been a season of fluid gameplay The the gameplay has not been next level in survivor 48

So that the the characters that are popping are really popping Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think yeah, I look at You know Kyle and Camilla I look at yeah, I agree. I think, yeah, like I look at, you know, Kyle and Camilla, I look at, yeah, probably Mary, say, and star and maybe like, David, depending on your cup of tea as well, as kind of like all people who could be in that conversation. And David also is somebody who does something a little bit different than what we we've seen, you know, Kyle and Camilla, I think it depends on how their story plays out also. Yeah, I yeah, I feel sometimes it's like not your season. I just I look at Camilla and I I don't know how many more of these rabbits she's going to pull.

You know what I mean? But I'm just like, there's a lot there's a lot there. You know, even the tribal council, she's slinging it, you know what I mean? And she's kind of saying probably even a little bit more than she should, which is good for, you know, the show and just kind of like, you know, kind of standing on what you say as well. So, you know, maybe maybe it's my Canadian bias, but also, you know, appreciate that. You know. So, OK. How about Thomas asks, is this the end of the I have to make a move meta? What do you think?

I mean, so much of Survivor, and look, I understand what it must be like for maybe the players or even the producers that people complain, oh my god, big move, Itis, everybody's just making a move just to make a move. Now players are not making a move and we're like Oh my well somebody do you realize you have to make a move, right? Yeah, I feel like I wonder if almost like Survivors like cyclical Where it started off where the Alliance was a dominant strategy then it was okay We have the alliances now somebody flips and that changes the whole game, right? And then it goes into voting blocks, where everyone's making a move every single time.

And I wonder if that cycle shortens, but if we see it again. Well, I think what I could try to, like, I was going to weave my way through the logic of that. You have to make moves. And we want to see you make moves. But we need to understand the moves. Like, for instance, like where it's like, hey,

I have a number one ally. I have to vote them out tonight because the jury will respect that. And and we're at home are like, but why? I don't know why you're doing that. Well, yes, yes, you are making a move, but we don't understand the logic of this. But like, I feel like that now it's an overcorrection to say like, hey, I'm in I've been guaranteed top six at the final eight. I'm good. I don't need to make

a move. Oh, it's like, well, no, but you're not you're not in a position to win. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I feel like the cycles are going to be short. You might watch one or two seasons that I think I would never put myself in that position to be the bottom of, you know, a six person alliance, even though I can get to six. Yeah, I think, you know, as long as they continue to cast people who are, you know, super fans, there's always going to be this, but I also think that Survivor 48, part of the reason why the pre-merge was so electric was because of all these characters

who were getting eliminated in the first half of the game, who probably would have been making some of these moves. Yeah, it was such a good pre-merge. Yeah. It's one of the best. Oh yeah, I mean, you know, Thomas, shout out another guy who like, you know, wish he could come back, you know, if the circumstances align, you know, and somebody,

you know, poor Kevin, right? Yeah, yeah, and Justin, best pizza in Mass, right? Yeah, that was great, right? Great time, met Jeremy Collins there, that was crazy. Yeah, how was that? Great, You know, it was almost hard to get a word in because, you know, you were just there just telling him how good of a job he did at fantasy football. Oh, well, like, Jeremy is a longtime rival of mine

in fantasy football. And he and I played in the championship this year. And he actually said that it was kind of messed up because I told him that my son Dominic, who's 11, has been my secret weapon. And he was furious. And he said that that's cheating that my son is helping me. Like I said, like with Joe and his sons are going to take over the business that with Kyle and Shaheen that my son Dominic, he's way in the fantasy football weeds and then he's like, Dad, you got to get this person. Dad, we got to get this person. I mean, I make the executive decision. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah, he you gave him like you like nice. You gave him like a little like head. Yeah. And also you're like a nice job. Champ. You did so good this year. Don't worry about it. Yeah. So, you know, it's bulletin board material really.

He should be thanking you because he's going to have to come back, you know, like seven teams. Like he does. What does he like? He loses to me in one league. He's fine. Yeah. But yeah, big, big Jeremy fan. So it was a, he was a cool, you know, everyone else. I mean, these live events, you can't miss, you know Yeah, I know we had a really good turnout at Luigi's Pizza appreciate Justin hosting us there Yeah, what else is going on in your world when you're not doing Survivor? So I'm uh, you know working for the same company for the last almost eight years You know working for the same company for the last almost eight years

Which is great because you know you reach a level that you can you know be able to take your eye off of just the work And be able to do all this other stuff and something left to do in the wintertime is To get out of Canada. Yeah, which makes like nobody right working remote. Yeah You were telling me earlier about all the places that you travel to. Do you have a favorite destination? Yeah, great. Great question. I would say probably like, so I spent two months in Buenos Aires, which is great because of the conversion rate.

It was so cheap. Like you get like, you know, big steak sides, like six, seven bucks. That was awesome. In 2022, Colombia, I've won a couple of times. And then from Europe, I'd probably be like Greece or Croatia. It's probably the two most beautiful places that I think I've ever seen. Yeah. So yeah, remote working. I don't know if there's any survivor players who are fellow remote workers. I will be doing I, another stint this fall and winter,

September through December, starting in Portugal at the end of September. So, if somebody's looking to potentially try some remote working somewhere else, hit me on Instagram. Okay, wait, so are you offering a job to people? No, I don't know. It's like you've got to already be remote working already. So, you're basically saying that you want to go, hey, does anybody want to go in on like some kind of Airbnb with me in Portugal where we're both remote working? I, there's, there's a lot of these nomad communities and you know, groups so you can get like into an apartment building where everybody's remote working or things like that. So there's like some of these structures set up. So, you know, if you're interested in just doing the trip on your own, I would say I'm doing this trip on my own. Yeah. Do you care? What if somebody's like, hey, Caleb, I would love to go to Portugal,

but I'm not going to be working on the trip. Okay. Well, I've done this before. It's a little and challenging. You're more like, definitely take a vacation. I'll be with you like weekends, evenings, mornings. Is this open to fans also, or only other players who are listening? Let me start with players, right? Because I feel like I'd be, you know, I get overstimulated online

if I'm getting messages from all over the place, you know? Yes, okay. So first wave is the Survivor alumni, and they do listen. Yeah. OK. So first those first wave is the survivor alumni. And they do listen. Yeah. Yeah. Great place to start. Also, yeah, we do that for about a month and then I'll probably go to South America come November. So, yeah, you know, that is that is that's what I'm thinking. I'm just throwing an open invite for any fellow remote. What if multiple former players reach out to you? How will you make the decision of who gets the or is it the more the merrier? It's more the merrier. Yeah. You know,

I'm not equal opportunity, you know, in terms of the fact like it's not like we're getting one big house, you know, it's like, you'll help me guy, you know, if you've never done it before, can help with that. I always find a lot of these trips, maybe not Portugal, that's kind of like a gluttonous one, because I haven't really went away the last couple of years because of Survivor. But you know, like if you go to Central America, South America, you save money compared to living at home with conversion rates and that. You know, that's a good point down there. I always end up saving a lot more money when I do these trips than I do living at home for sure. And you get the sun and it's way better than a Canadian window. Caleb, let's say you got like four other survivor alumni

to go with you to Portugal to all do remote work. Okay. All right. And Rob is a podcast came with a substantial financial offer to put live feeds on the Airbnb. Are you taking the meeting with us? Listen, as everybody in reality TV, we'll take the meeting. Okay, we'll talk to your people. Yeah, we'll take the meeting. I'd want to know the house a little bit. I feel like there's some people where,

some things are better left off the feeds and then some people, you know, we'll see. But actually those, it's probably the former group that the one that you wanna get. Yeah, okay. So. Caleb, are you watching anything else fun right now? Not a ton of other stuff right now.

I've been watching some Criminal Minds lately. Oh yeah, you were telling me about that in Boston. Yeah, so you know, never watched that series before, so getting into that. Yeah, I still haven't caught up on Dondi, but I'm excited. Yeah, no spoilers, no spoilers, okay? Yeah, so looking forward to that and you know, it's fun catching up like the, you know, the Traders challenge, kind of like some of these other, you know, shows that are that are coming out. Yeah. OK. Anything else on your mind, survivor or otherwise?

I think that so I will say. I've heard some discourse about the final four fire making. Yes. Do we like it? Do we hate it? Where do you stand on this? I'm especially sour and down on it this week because I feel like that it has created this mess that we're in of four people are willing to just ride it out to

the end and not want to make a move. Yes. But wouldn't things like this happen all the time before fire making? Like, are we just seeing something that we've already seen in other seasons? Well, give me an example of it, because I feel like that, yeah, a lot of times I feel like that we would see alliances of five and inside the five, there'd be sort of like two different groups thinking that they have a final three. There'd be sort of like two different groups thinking that they have a final three But there would still be a little bit of tension of like who has the real Final three when they end up coming down to it Whereas that this group of four is just like okay

Well, we're just content to get to four because at least no matter what I'm gonna have a chance to Try my hand in making the fire. And I know I can make a fire. Yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. We don't have to ever turn on each other. Worst comes to worst. Two people in this four will be making fire. And whoever is the person that can't make the fire is out. Nobody had to get backstabbed in this four. Yeah. I mean, I think that that is a lot easier said than done. I think at the end of the day, like, the bigger challenge with fire is that instead of taking people out at four,

you're now taking them out at five, right? Well, who's doing that? Who's doing that? Yeah. You gotta catch the end of the season, my guy, you know? The longer it goes, the more you come over. But guy, you know, the long, long, long over. But yeah, I always, I just feel like, and maybe I'll do that, that research. Nothing comes to mind right now, but I feel like, you know, don't we see almost like these Pagongings or like some of these dominant tribes, you know, like a, like a, like a, like a ghost island or whatever, you know, like groups come together and and ride it out to the

end. Well, I feel like in Ghost Island, I don't even know if they knew about the final four fire making at that point in time. I know it did come up in that season or maybe that they might have found out about it at the beginning of the season. So it wasn't necessarily a surprise to them. I think that's what happened in the preseason. They told him, hey, when you get down to four, it'll be the final four fire making. I think that was a tough spot. I mean, for Laurel, especially, who've thought that like Laurel was sort of saw a path where maybe if I get to the final three with Dom and Wendell, they'll split votes and I might be able to. But I think that for Laurel, I don't know if there was ever a perfect opportunity for her to make that flip.

Yeah, and then there's also an element, and you obviously always have to believe you have a chance to win the game, but I think of like Blood versus Water when Monica was going to the end. It's like, listen, if you flip, none of us win, you know? Right? Yeah. And that was a tough season also, because then there's somebody was coming back from the Redemption Island also. So, you know, if Monica ends up flipping and now all of a sudden now another number from the other side comes back from Redemption Island at the final five, now all of a sudden, okay, without that the other side has the number. So that was a tough season where Redemption Island really did prevent anybody from strongly considering to flip. I will say, and I don't know if they'll do this because they always want the twist to be shown in the finale,

but bring back at least a pre-merge Redemption Island. That would be fun. If we had a pre-merge Redemption Island this season, who would complain? I just think that there's so many, and everyone with all of the love to be purists you know when it comes to survivor but you know with all of the pure about survivor these days everything is so kind of like there's so many yeah girls anyways right why wouldn't we get these guys a chance to come back if you got a bad shape especially because that we have are doing so much crazy stuff in the pre merge, losing votes, you know, you went on a journey, you're you're basically screwed.

And then just have conversations. Yeah. So it's like, OK, so it's we could be like a little bit more loosey goosey. It's like, OK, well, you know, Justin, you got hosed. But, you know, the good news is you could maybe, you know, fight your way back in. And then we ended at the merge. I would love that. I think that like, why not? Would be awesome.

Yeah, so that would be my other, I don't have too many other Survivor hot takes, but I'm a pro fire making and I'm a pro Redemption Island, definitely for the pre-merge. And if you wanted to tell me that they were gonna do it a second wave that comes in in but it doesn't happen in the finale finals five it comes in sooner I could be sweet to that as well yeah I think we also have to like double up on a tribal council in an episode

also so we have the split tribal council but I think also like that merge-atory episode is kind of like a dud also with you know earn the merge so so somebody comes back from Redemption Island in that episode, and so that's a little bit of like excitement that comes in there. And then we probably have to have an episode where it's maybe not necessarily a split tribal council, but in 90 minutes, you could do two tribal councils

in one episode. They used to do it in 60 minutes. Exactly, yeah, no. I don't know. The numbers, they can make the numbers work. They can make the numbers work. Yeah. Yeah. And we've been lucky the last couple seasons, but maybe you get a medevac along the way, you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Knock on wood. Okay. All right. So. All right. Caleb. This was so wonderful to get to catch up with you.

Anything else you want to ask me? Did you make Star freestyle in her exit interview? So she did rap a little bit. I didn't even have to prompt her. What was her boot order? Well, so I said to Star, I thanked her for also that in doing a freestyle rap, I thanked her for not giving the boot order for the rest of the season in her rap. And I didn't know that that was necessarily when I started this thing, something that I needed to say to people.

But I have learned that that is helpful information to give. It's important. Yeah, it doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt to ask. Not if it's not explicit. You can never be too safe. And yeah, and her rap was not explicit. And then one other thought was it just hit me now. So it feels like R.H.A.P. Grams and the Survivor Instagram page

have both taken a big jump up this season. Yes. Like, are you, like, you know... In terms of our follower count or the level of our content? Yeah, the level of the content, the comments, the memes. I thought you were going to accuse us of buying followers. Oh, no. No one won Survivor there, right? No, not yet. Yeah.

So, yeah. So, yes, we have had a lot of great work. Brandon Donlin has been hard at work. Also, we're also always bringing in more talent to try to help us get better and better. So thank you for noticing. Yeah. I almost feel like you just make sure you can't be behind the Survivor Instagram page. They're notoriously just not as funny. If they're going toiously you know like just not not as funny like if they're gonna be funny you have to be like tens like seven times as funny like you guys might even have to step it up for here on our ass yeah exactly

exactly okay all right so if you have any things that you do like help me brainstorm a workshop please let me know we'll start with Portugal and then we'll play for it we'll figure it out from there. All right. Caleb, what do you want to tell people to check out? You still have the cameo? Still still got cameo, you know, but you also just on Instagram, you know, and outside of that, you know, I like to just appear here and there at, you know, live events, especially if I'm working and I'm down in the States already, I always try and rip over. So it'll be fun to see you guys, you know,

at some of these things in the future as well. All right. Well, hopefully we'll see you get in person soon. Thank you, everybody, for checking this out. We love to read your comments. I think they'll be all positive, right? Sure. Right. I haven't seen a negative comment yet. No, I don't think anybody we gave anybody people things to have a negative comment Oh, but if you know you keep it constructive, we will allow it Okay, and then of course I will have the wand off coming up on Monday So be sure to join us for that very special treat Marianne okay, your friend and mine is gonna fill in for me on the patreon a on Friday

So I'll be on the lookout for that patrons robinswebsite.com slash patron thank you for joining us Caleb take care of a good one bye