RHAP: We Know Survivor - Kaôh F***ing Rong Rewatch Finale w/ Julia Sokolowski

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

Kaôh F***ing Rong Rewatch Finale w/ Julia Sokolowski Survivor: Kaôh R?ng reaches its dramatic conclusion, and hosts Rob Cesternino and Chappell are joined by special guest Julia Sokolowski to break down the unforgettable finale and reunion. Rob and Chappell lead a deep-dive recap as Julia—one of the season’s most memorable players—returns to reflect on her journey, the bitter jury, and how every move shaped the final outcome in Survivor’s 32nd season. The episode opens as Rob and Chappell relive the intensity of the finale and discuss standout moments from the Tribal Council and jury. They analyze whether Aubry Bracco’s strategic gameplay was enough, why Michele Fitzgerald won over the jury with a late-game surge, and how the fire-making challenge at final four created a genuine survivor showdown. Julia joins to reveal fresh insights about her alliance decisions, being in the middle, and the pivotal vote that still keeps her up at night. Together, the trio dissects the social dynamics that defined the season—especially the roles of Scott and Jason as Survivor’s “last real villains,” and Julia’s unique relationship with them at camp. They dig into the impact of the infamous “kick someone off the jury” twist, unexpected jury speeches, and how physical and emotional challenges, from medevacs to the infamous sandpit immunity, tested the castaways. – Michele’s resilience and challenge dominance in the finale – Aubry’s jury management and the fallout of critical relationship decisions – Julia’s confessions about her flip-floppy middle game and alliance shifts – Unfiltered jury reactions, including Neil’s icy sendoff and Scott’s bitterness – Final four fire-making tension between Aubry and Cydney The episode raises key questions: Did the jury get it right in rewarding Michele’s social game? Was Aubry’s gameplay too cold, or was she simply outmatched by jury perception? Plus, Julia spills behind-the-scenes stories from Ponderosa, the chaotic reunion, and her hopes for a possible Survivor return. Catch all the finale drama and behind-the-scenes insight—tune in as Rob, Chappell, and Julia unpack the game-changing decisions and moments that made Survivor: Kaôh R?ng a season to remember! Chapters: 0:00 Finale Hype and Reunion Vibes 2:08 Did Aubry Blow Her Game? 4:32 Michele’s Challenge Run Begins 6:10 Scott’s Bitter Jury Behavior Explained 8:19 Michele Wins Right to Boot Juror 10:07 Debate Over Kicking Neil Off Jury 12:08 The Extra Challenge’s Place in Finale 14:01 Cydney vs Aubry: Firemaking Showdown 16:01 Michele’s Iconic Puzzle Kick Moment 18:41 Final Four: 2-2 Split for Fire 20:55 Cydney’s Bitterness and Jury Votes 33:03 Julia Sokolowski Joins the Podcast 38:03 Julia Analyzes Aubry’s Two Games 41:05 Julia’s Perspective: Debbie Boot Vote 44:22 Bonding With Villains Scott and Jason 54:15 Behind the Scenes at Ponderosa 70:19 Sia Surprises Tai on Stage To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're on. among fans. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Sestrinito back here. Co. Effing Wrong. And it's a finale of co-effing wrong. And we are here to talk about it here with Chappelle. Chappelle, how are you?

I'm feeling energized. I just watched the finale and then I watched the reunion. And, you know, I got through the entire reunion and I didn't even think, hey, they're going to show scenes of the next season of us. and it got me pumped again. It felt like, okay, this is why we like the finale. We like to see the new cast brought out, saw some familiar faces. No, I think we ended this on a very high note.

Yeah, we used to be a proper country and have a finale and a reunion show. And it was all like it was supposed to be. And that's what happened here back in the May of 2016. Yeah, it was a good finale, probably a decent reunion, I would say. There was some shenanigans. We saw a flub from Jeff as well, going to Drew Carey a little bit too early. Yeah. Kind of like kind of for the Riz God mold as well.

So, you know, nothing to do under the sun here on Survivor. Yes. And so I'm very excited to talk about this. Plus, we are scheduled hopefully if everything holds up. And, you know, in the real time, we are expecting a guest. Hopefully when you clicked on the title of this podcast, you know who the guest is. but Julius Sokolowski, we made contact. She's going to join us later on.

And so we can ask her some of our questions about what were the vibes there on the night of this final tribal council? Yeah, I'm sure Julia was tapped in. She was very young, the youngest person on that tribe, but she's clearly a big survivor fan. And so I definitely want to know her experience, being somebody who lied on her application to get even selected by casting from what I can understand. And yeah, I just fascinated to see how she looks back on this 10 years later, as her big moment. Yeah. All right.

So we'll talk to Julia later on in this podcast, knock on wood. But Chappelle, I guess the question that we went into with this whole run, and now that we've watched it all, we've seen the final tribal council. And there was a question of like, was Aubrey bad? Did Aubrey blow it? And I have to say going back and watching this, I don't feel like she did. No. No, she didn't blow it. Aubrey did a really good job. This was about as good as you can get, you know, as far as like she gave it a best shot. She, it wasn't always the cleanest game. So there's definitely things where she could have bob, where she weaved or whatever.

But I think once we get down to the jury vote here, you know, she was sitting next to a jugger night. And, you know, she just didn't know it. I mean, I think even at some point she did, she did identify that Michelle was going to be the hardest person to beat that just couldn't get. her out. And so, you know, sometimes you can do all you can, but you're just going to fall short. And that's just what happened. I was watching the know-it-alls from this night earlier tonight. And Stephen made a great point there talking about his experience. He had just come off of playing in Survivor's Second Chance. And he talked about the experience of being a juror. And as a juror, you are so looking just to see something from the underdog. the person who is like the person who's coming out of nowhere and it's like, boy, he said,

if Kimmy could just get to the end, we want to give it to Kimmy. If Keith Nail could just say one smart thing in the Final Tribal Council, we want to give it to him. And so here comes Michelle. She rises. She gets hot at the right time. And it's just something as the jurors that you say, okay, this is exciting. Yeah. Look, Michelle had really good relationships with those people.

That's why they were rooting for her. You could be an underdog if nobody likes you. They're not going to vote for you anyway, right? But they liked her. They liked her a lot. And so it would make them happy to see her win. And it would also make them happy to kind of stick it to the other two people. We hear from Scott, I think he's probably the most bitter of the jurors where he's like,

Ty lost his vote the day. Ty voted him out and didn't use that super eye on him. He says, Aubrey got weaker as the game got on. And I was like, I don't think that's the case. but it did look like, you know, Michelle was doing enough. She was raising her profile enough to where Aubrey and Ties' deficiencies in his eyes at least were going to guarantee that he did not vote for them. Yeah, and Michelle played it as well as she could with the cards that she was dealt,

where she was basically coming into the final seven in a very diminished position. She didn't really have a lot of cards that she could play at that point, but she did everything she could. She won challenges. She had a good social game. She pushed back when people said she was weak. and she came across as very feisty. But she has no blood on her hands.

It's said a couple of times about Michelle heading into the Final Tribal Council. And I really do think that there are a lot of parallels between Michelle's win and the win that Aubrey ultimately does get these 10 years later. Yeah, Aubrey kind of comes from nowhere in Survivor 50. You know, there were so many other bigger threats

that we saw fall, but she manages to get to the end with people that she can be. Ultimately, you know, we can talk about all the strategy in the world, but the one thing that remains true is you've got to sit by somebody you could be. And you can't decide why that is, right? Like people could look at her moves, people can look at the social dynamics, people can want to vote for her because she needs it the most. Regardless, you have to look around and decide who can I sit next to where the people are

going to choose me over that person. And there was just no way that they were going to choose Aubrey over Michelle this time. But in Survivor 50, she's sitting there looking, sitting pretty. She's sitting next to Joe, sitting next to Jonathan, sitting next to Rizzo. And she's like, I think I got it. know, as long as Cary's not there, if Ozzy's not there, she got rid of all the people that could beat her there. And so we kind of saw Michelle do the same thing, right? I don't know. I honestly don't know who could have beat Michelle if, you know, all things remain the same.

Like, I don't know if Scott or Jason have a chance to beat her. So I think she was just the juggernaut that nobody saw coming. Yeah. You talked about Scott and Jason and we lump them in so much together. Scott does to me in the Final Travel Council. He does come across pretty angry. He comes across and he's like doing, he's dancing. The dance was weird. Really has very, um, sore words for Ty. He doesn't seem to love Aubrey. I think he's calls Michelle that she got, she got stronger while Aubrey and Ty got weaker. I actually thought that Jason was kind of measured in the final tribal council. He didn't come across to me as super bitter. No, but you could tell Scott's not a fan of the game. You know, he doesn't, like, he's kind of like,

you voted me out, thus, I don't have to vote for you. And I'm going to try to justify that however I feel. And that's his vote. You can vote however you want. But I think that, you know, when we talk about who you want on your jury, uh, you know, I think I had said this about Big Brother last season where I was like, you don't want a bunch of bad players on the jury. You know, you want them to be able to look at your game and for what it is. And if they're bad players, they're probably going to be bad jury members, you know. And Scott's a bad jury member. You know, he's like, Aubrey, you demand, you control the game at the very beginning, but I still got to vote for you. I was like, okay, Scott, you win. You know, you get the last laugh. He called it like, well, survivors got this twist. I'm like, oh, what's you talking about when Neil got voted out? Like, no, this twist where the people who get voted out get to pick the winner. Like, that's kind of the rules of the game.

It's like, there's this twist that when you pass go, you get $200. What? Yeah. And if you're the banker, you're screwed because you got to get that money up. But yeah, I think this is him saying, you voted me out. And thus, I can do what I want my vote. I can punish you for the way you treated me in the game. I don't like that you beat me.

I don't like the way you beat me or whatever the case may be. So I'm not going to vote for you. And that's his prerogative for sure. But it does come off like a bitter betty because you're not saying Aubrey and I didn't get along. You said something disrespectful. You did something. I didn't respect the game you play.

You're saying you got me out. And now it's my turn. Turnabout is fair play. I don't know if Michelle was strongly considering it, but we have the moment in the episode where Michelle has won the right to be able to kick somebody off of the jury. And Michelle, she's going to talk to Ty.

And then she also ends up going to talk to Aubrey. And Aubrey tries to sell Michelle, hey, we should kick Scott off the jury. And you don't know what he's going to say. He could really just like, you know, tear your whole game up. And Michelle really feels like, Scott's not going to vote for me, but it's freaking Ty

that's really saying like, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Yeah, I don't have the sound thing ready of Ty. This is what he says. He says, no, Scott, that could be my jury vote. Scott, he's going to respect the big move that I made. We got to get rid of Neil.

Bad player equals bad juror. Scott's a bad player. He's been a bad player since episode one of the game since the first vote that he does. I'm like, Scott's not good at this. And so, you know, expecting him to have a measured vote that looks at the game holistically and can respect Ty's move and not take it extremely personally that Ty kind of made a fool of him a little bit, then yeah, that's not something that he's going to be able to vote for. That's just not Scott. Yeah. It's just funny that Ty was like, oh, no, that, that's, we can't get rid of Scott. That's

one of my votes. I mean, he wasn't wrong. If Ty was going to get someone's vote, it was starting with Scott. If it starts, it ends there. You know, he's not going to get Debbie over Aubrey and Michelle. He's not going to get Sydney. He's not going to get, you know, none of these people, maybe Jason, but he's definitely, if he can't get Scott, he can't get anybody. So he was right and needing to keep Scott in.

Neil wasn't going to vote for him. Yeah. The really, one of the other wacky votes comes from Debbie, who, I don't know if Debbie was trying to, like, because she really kind of glazes Aubrey. in the Final Travel Council. She really is like so much props, respect. I don't know, was this a move where it's like, oh, you think you had got my vote,

but I actually am going to go right down Michelle. Or were there things cut that we didn't see? No, because I think what she says, she talks about Aubrey's like a nerd warrior and things of that nature. But then she presses Aubrey. So remember when you were about to quit the game and you were having your nervous breakdown

and I saved your life? Why didn't you afford me that same thing? And I thought Aubrey gave her a decent answer, but I think that's where this conversation starts and stops, is that Debbie is bitter because Aubrey, she felt like Aubrey owed her her life in the game. Like if it was not for Debbie, Aubrey wouldn't have been here in the final three in the first place.

Thus, you shouldn't have turned on me so easily. And because of that, I think Debbie's vote is also just a little bitter. I want to talk about Sydney, but I want to maybe, let's go to the final four, which ultimately ends up happening at, the start of this episode. And we actually start this episode with a reward challenge, which I think would have been the immunity challenge if Joe Del Campo didn't end up getting meditaced, which Aubrey does win, which probably means that either Michelle or Sidney, probably Michelle, would

have gone home at the final five. See, I thought that the challenge to vote out, the juror would have been there, would have been the challenge, you know, that they use for that. Because, you know, when they do the reward challenge, that little banner falls down that says reward. So I felt like that was always going to be a reward. Yeah, I'm trying to think. The hold the ball challenge, I think that's the, in my mind, that's the one that would have been.

Which one? So when Michelle wins to vote out, Neil, to hold the stick. Yeah, I thought that would have been the kind of endurance challenge that they would have used. Yeah, I feel like that's typically, I feel like that feels like more like a final four challenge.

and then, you know, if you back everything up, but, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's like, it's hard to be. Because it is an extra challenge. There's one more challenge than we need. Yeah. And so I think that, like, they probably needed to do something with that. And then, of course, Jeff says they've been planning to do something like this for seven years.

Very interesting that we don't, do we, we never do this again? They never do it again. Yeah. And Jeff says, well, you can, you can understand why we did it because it's such good, drama, but they never did it again. You never did it again. It feels like maybe that's not the truth, Jeff. It feels like you did that because half the cast got met with act and you needed something.

And it's like, what do we do? Do we have a final two? And I think also that this was something that we talked about on the know it all is that Aubrey was also lucky that in the first time they did Brains v. Beauty versus Braun, they did a final two. And they easily could have at the final three instead of the vote off somebody from the jury challenge, it could have been, hey, this is final three immunity. The person who wins is Michelle.

She's going to take Ty to the final two. I forgot that this happened. I forgot that there was like a fake out. Because, you know, they go to the tribal council. It's the final three. And Ty is the one who peeps it. He says, doesn't Jeff normally say, you know, and now you get the chance to face the jury.

And I was like, dang, that's a good catch because I missed it. But then at that point, there's like, no, Ty, you're crazy. We're done. We've made it. But then they have to show up. to that challenge. They know the challenges come in. And so I forgot that they kind of gave them the oki-doke on the on the final two because they were expecting it to be one. And I think you're right. I think I think Michelle had already identified that Ty was the mark that she needed to be.

Yeah. And not the chicken. Not the chicken. Yeah. And day 37 was when Sydney gets voted out. And so they realized, well, there's still two days until the final tribal council. So we've got to do something tomorrow. I, none of them expected it to be that. I want to go back to the final four. Aubrey ends up winning the challenge there. She wins reward. She takes Sydney on reward. Once again, we see Michelle and Ty, and she's really cultivated that relationship with Ty

in these last couple of days since they got into that big fight at the tribal council where Jason went home. And then ultimately, we see Michelle as saying like, hey, Ty, I really want to go to the end with you. You should vote with me and Sydney here. And, you know, he seems open to it, but really, you know, Aubrey still has tie locked in. and she comes back from the reward with Sidney.

She's holding hands with him. But interestingly, with Sydney, we see Sidney talk about how she felt like she had two final threes. She had a final three. Her and Michelle could vote out Ty. Sydney seemed to not have a lot of love for Ty. Sydney and Michelle could vote out Ty and go to the end with Aubrey, or she could go to the final three with Aubrey and Ty.

Yeah, she had options. She realized that she's one of the more attractive people to take to the end. For whatever reason, she's cultivated these bonds where Michelle doesn't want to get rid of her. Aubrey doesn't want to get rid of her. But you got to get rid of somebody. And, you know, Michelle makes a really good case against Ty. Like, he's been flip-flopping around everybody. Like, no one's actually going to vote for Todd like you think he is.

So Sidney probably doesn't even realize that she's in danger here, depending on who wins immunity. and yeah, it's going to come down to a tie vote, you know, where her and Aubrey are going to have to do firemaking. And, you know, Sydney comes up short here. But I think as far as positioning goes, she thought, you know, there's really no way that I could go home here. Yeah. And so she's feeling really good going into the Final Four challenge.

And then we get where Michelle has this incredible moment. She ends up winning a challenge that Aubrey, I believe, has a big lead in this challenge. It's really Michelle, and they call it now the Fitztower, what this puzzle she ends up winning. She ends up doing it again in Survivor Winners at War. And Ty then has the lead on the puzzle. Aubrey is just not able to put together the Fitz Tower. And I don't know what it was called before it was called the Fitztower.

But here comes Michelle. And she, iconically, then... kicks the puzzle after she gets it done. Chappelle, in watching this back, I really feel like that Survivor should frown upon it was a great moment, a gift, a meme. But as we just saw in Survivor 50,

sometimes that they call the winner of the challenge and they got to, hold on, we got to look at it. Like, is this brilliant on Michelle's part? Then, you know, oh, wait, hold on. Actually, that there was, there was one piece off. have to go back. It's not on Michelle to do these people's jobs, okay?

You know, if somebody spells a word incorrectly and they don't catch it, we just move on. You know, they got to catch it. And so Michelle kicking over the puzzle, yeah, let her do it. Especially when we know that in Winners at War, she's going to do it all over again. You know, Michelle's a showman. She knew that that's the Fitztower. And I think she wins that challenge both times and kicks it both times. Both times.

Yeah, I remember I called my shot in Winters at War where she was. doing, I grab my kids like, hey guys, watch, watch. She's going to kick the puzzle. She's going to kick the puzzle. Watch this. And sure enough, she did. But yeah, because it's like instantly, she doesn't ask for permission or consent

to kick the puzzle. Jeff's like, Michelle, win this. Like, just kicks it down. It's a good moment. It's a good moment. It's a good moment. You know, Michelle. She does it really well. Michelle ends the season, I want to say, third in the confessional

count despite having so many quiet episodes. But those last two, or I think those are the big ones, right? I think she had 11 confessionals in the last, in the second to last episode, in episode 14, she had 14. And so this is when she's heating up. So you kind of let her cook. She came from last place by a lot, and she just cooked that puzzle. She said she looked at it and just understood it, and that's exactly how it looks.

And the fact that she's able to do it again in season 40, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. So Michelle and Sydney, they come to the realization like, hey, we should go to the end with Ty. We should vote up Aubrey. Aubrey has a lot of friends or respect from the jury. People are going to vote for Aubrey. We got to vote out Aubrey. Aubrey and Ty realize like, hey, we should take out Sydney.

I'm not going to let you go, Ty, you know, where we've come this far. And so they're voting for Sydney. Sydney and Michelle are voting for Aubrey. And this is how God intended the final four to be. What do you mean? That we had a two-two split. They tied, two-two. We had to make a fire.

We had to make a fire. We had no other choice. We had no other choice. We didn't, this wasn't just like, oh, you get to just decide who gets to go to fire. No, like, we had a stalemate vote. The way, Lord, I mean, Jeff decided in the early days of Survivor, we just lost so much. And it would happen sometimes. It would happen sometimes.

Yeah. It was fun when it happened. It was novel. It was like, hey, that's a thing that happened. It's like seeing a dog walk on his high legs. It didn't happen all the time. But when you see it, you have to stop and watch it. Now, you see, every dog walking on his high legs, like, it's not even special anymore.

Like, well, did you even put yourself into the fire? Right. Like, this was wild that we got to, like, an organic firemaking challenge. And between two of the fan favorites, you know, don't even wrong, there are four fan favorites in this final four, which is actually crazy. because I think a lot of people were big fans of Thai. But, you know, Michelle has her fans. Sidney obviously has hers and so does Aubrey. And so, yeah, to see these two battering rams going at it in a firemaker challenge

because you kind of think whoever wins this probably has a decent shot at winning the game, especially Aubrey, right? So for this to happen and these two that they talk about it. They've been in cahoots for a very long time. Aubrey's like, nah, Sidney's been my partner in crime through all the moves. And that's why I know that it needs to be her and fire against me because she's got to go. Yeah. And in a way, Aubrey kind of puts herself into firemaking because she could go with Sydney and vote out Thai. She could if she wanted to. I'm not sure does Aubrey know that Michelle and Sydney are going to vote for her?

Yes. Okay. Because I think that at the final tribal council, they try to give Michelle credit. And Aubrey's like, hold on, Michelle. Did you know that we were going to vote for, that we were going to put Sydney in fire? And she's like, nope. It's like, okay. But case close. You know? Aubrey, there's not a move that happens in the in the pre-merge, I mean in the post-merge that Aubrey doesn't know. She talks about how she's on the right side of every single vote from the moment Neil leaves to the game is over. And she, including that one,

she purposely leaves Ty out of a couple votes because at the end of the final, at the final travel council, she's able to say, there's times where Ty didn't know what was going on. There's times where Michelle didn't know what was going on. But you know who always knew what was happening? Armory. Across Canada in a Volvo.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. I think Sydney views this some type of way that Aubrey did not decide to vote out tie here at the final four. Which is crazy because Sidney voted for who? She voted for Aubrey. That's true. So I just, I've always had an issue with this vote. Love Sidney to Del.

been praying for her to come back and play Survivor, play Big Brother, play something. I don't care. Just be back on TV. But this is the craziest vote of the season. I don't care what anybody says. Sydney and Aubrey speak nothing but highly of each other as far as like strategy goes on a personal level. There's zero conflict between these two women. At any point, they both identify that they're the biggest threats in the game.

Sydney is saying like, and the reason I voted for Aubrey is because she's the biggest threat. But then when it's time to give somebody your vote, Sidney's argument is, well, you voted for me, so I'm not going to vote for you to win the money, but you voted for her too. It's crazy, you know, like, look, even if you gave Sydney's vote to Aubrey, Aubrey still doesn't beat Michelle here.

But if you gave Sidney's vote to Aubrey and Neil was still in the jury, we have a different conversation. So, yeah, I just think it's such a fascinating vote that Sydney, of all these people kind of dodging. is the bitter juror, like, stench that's like Scott and maybe Jason have when I think that Sydney might probably have the most bitter move of them all.

Yeah, it's, it's tough to untangle in terms of how to do this. And so for Aubrey, I think that she has this relationship with Ty. She wants to go to the end with him. If she does go to the end with Michelle and Sydney, does it change anything? Okay. So let's assume she'll get Tye's vote. Yeah. I don't, you know, we have no reason to believe that Tye would be bitter. But, I mean, everybody else is. So maybe, maybe he would be, right? So let's say she gets Tye. She'll, she's not going to get Debbie. Yeah. She's not going to get Neil. She's going to get Joe. And she'll get Nick. So that's three.

I would say that if Michelle does still win the last thing, I think that Sydney could also be a proponent to push for Scott to get kicked off the jury. Oh, that would be decent. Okay, if Sydney and Michelle, I mean, Sydney and Aubrey are both like, yeah, it should be Scott. Yeah, it should be Scott. I don't know if Michelle goes for that, though, because Michelle had a couple options. She, of course, thought about Neil, who she does end up kicking off. And that time was the biggest person pushing for vote off Neil. Right.

The obvious choice that everybody kept talking about was Joe, because we know where Joe's vote is going. But then Scott is kind of like the sexy choice. you know, it's not, it's not a guarantee, but it could shake some things up. He's obviously, like I said, it's a bad juror. So you don't really want him on the jury anyway. So I can see Sidney and Aubrey pushing for it, but I think Michelle would be too savvy. I think Michelle at that point, she probably just votes out, Joe. I think that Debbie could vote for Sydney instead of Michelle also.

I can see that. Yeah, I can see that. So I think you do start to change some things around. I mean, hindsight is 2020 on this, but I, I, I don't know. I mean, and there's no way for Aubrey to know this, but I do think that I could see it, like, where is it like four to two to one for Aubrey? Right. It didn't like, how often do we get that random stray vote?

Sometimes, you know, they just conform with what everybody else is doing because they want to vote for the winner and they don't want to just vote and throw to vote away. You know, like Debbie probably is thinking about voting for Sydney, but if she reads the room and find out that nobody else is, does she go with it? Who knows? But what do you think Aubrey's worst? Like, what do you think her worst move is? Is it just not being able to get Michelle out?

No, because I don't think she really is looking. There's like an opportunity cost of if you take out Michelle, then you're leaving in Jason. You have to, you know, pull the lever on, okay, this is the rounds we want to take out Michelle. And it really should have been when Joe got medevaced. So I don't think that there is a glaring mistake that Aubrey makes here in Survivor Co. wrong. I think when we look back at what what did go wrong for Aubrey in terms of it, I think these times when she has to make a tough decision, I think that she does it in a way that ends up leaving the person who gets burned feeling particularly burned. We see it with Debbie. We see it with

Sydney also. We know she goes back and forth with the Julia and Scott vote. So I think when she was the person to have to pull the trigger. I think that she left the person that she spurned feeling not so great. I agree. And the reason I agree is because I recently listened to your interview with Arby from her recent win in Survivor 50. And she talks about how it was a business trip. She said, I made some really good friends, but I was not there to make super strong connections with everybody. She said, I was there to kind of have good work and relationship with everybody, but she wasn't getting emotionally invested in people like as she had in the past. And, you know, we see that with Debbie.

Debbie and Aubrey are friends for life once she, you know, Debbie saves her life. And, you know, and then Debbie's life is saved by the medical team. And they're like, oh, we'll never turn our backs on each other. Fast forward to the game bot Aubrey. She's like, Debbie got to go. But the game bot Aubrey and the emotional Aubrey connection, those two people aren't the same. You know, like she's able to have that emotional connection and then be a stone Cold Killer. And I don't think they like that. I don't think they like the Stone Cold Killer part.

Like I think if Sydney's going to go here, she would have liked the heads up. She would have like for Aubrey to say, hey, my girl, it's got to be me and you. Kind of like the Colin Camilla, like, only one of us is going to make you here. You know, and then that way, that emotional bridge kind of like ties together the game portion to that, to that, that, those feelings that she has. Because, yeah, I think Aubrey's moves are calculated. She, they're good, some of these are really good moves. Like the leaving Ty out of those votes is crazy because that's, it's such a, it's such a good way of depowering him. He gets to the final tribal council and everybody's like, yeah, you had advantages, but what did you do with them? You voted, you use both your advantages

on Michelle, Michelle and she didn't even go home. Well, whose, whose fault is that? It's not Ty's fault. It's so, it's Aubrey's fault. So those are really good things. But when they, when they look at Aubrey and they see this person who was so emotionally available to them, even with Ty, right? Like, we saw how much she let him in. I think that it's hard to kind of sparse those two things when she becomes Aubrey the killer. And even that moment that you're bringing up with Ty, that's another circumstance where she used her very close connection to Ty and then let him vote the wrong way. He felt really burned by that. She was able to get him back on board. But I think that sometimes those really close connections that then when she goes the other way, people didn't feel great about it. And I think

that that's something we see Cochran come up in the Survivor finale. Aubrey calls Cochran her survivor spirit animal, and she talks about how that they have a lot in common. But I think that ultimately in Survivor 50, Aubrey is able to channel a little bit of the Cochran who doesn't get too close to people in Survivor Caramowen where they're mad at dawn when she's in the final three because she's that person that did have that connection.

Aubrey, when she plays in her winning Survivor game, she also, you know, we talk so much over the years over the, survive her moms and I think it was kind of an underreported story that here's Aubrey and Survivor 50 is a mom but she did the thing where she's not she wasn't a mom to anybody who was out there she wasn't the mom to anybody and she kept her distance in a way where sure it created problems with Genevieve and a few other people along the way but when she got to the end nobody was like how could you do this to me Aubrey right Cochran talks about timing as his superpower in Karamohen.

And that's really what it was for Aubrey and Survivor 50. It was the timing. It was this is the group I'm with right now. Yes, I'm with Rick Devin's and Emily, but I can be bought. I'm moving on to the next one. And yeah, they might not love it, but I don't have a connection with them to where they're going to get to the end and be like, Aubrey, you left me out to dry. It was like, no, that's Aubrey's game.

Aubrey is bouncing around. They saw her doing it. It wasn't like Aubrey was invisible and nobody saw her coming. It was just that there were so many bigger threats that she kept making sure we're in front of her and making sure they were in front of her and just taking out people at the right time. By the time she gets to the end, all the people that she needs to make sure that are out of the game to beat, they're gone. And so all they can do is either respect her game and vote for or, you know, vote for these people who they don't have as much respect for in the first place.

So, you know, she puts them in a position where, like, what's your alternative? You're going to vote for these people who you haven't looked at as a strong player this entire game and Survivor 50. I think that she didn't have that same kind of energy here. I think that her connection with Joe was so strong, but did it have to be? Joe, Joe's going to vote for you. You know, maybe she was investing so much emotion

into those people that ultimately don't really pay off for her. And Joe's one good vote, but Neil is nothing for her. Ty is sitting next to her, and that's another person she poured into so emotionally. The other people, I don't know if they feel so close to Aubrey by the end. If anything, they're probably her adversaries. Yeah, it's so interesting, uh, this, these two things that she has going for her. And in, in the Survivor 50 winning game, uh, I feel like Mike Bloom talks a lot about,

uh, you know, people, uh, don't, uh, dull their shine. But I think that with Aubrey, I think it was, there was some intentionality to, she'd let you see it in glimpses when she shine like when she's going to eat the bugs and she's dancing with coach she's going to give you moments but as the most part she's not going to like 100% like lock in and give you that sense of you know okay we're we're really emotionally connected what did you think about her final tribal council performance i thought it was pretty good i i didn't think that she but i think that if you played the two side by sides i feel like she's was like a little bit more like telling in the co-wrong final tribal council i feel like her

voice is a little raised at them and i feel like that she seems more at ease and open in the survivor 50 final travel council i think she's getting iced out here in the uh the co-wrong uh you questioning uh nick is the one who will say some of these people won't even ask you any questions they're talking about abry you know there are a couple people where it never Everyone happens. Hey! Look who's here. We're so excited to be joined by somebody that we've talked about so much along the way. Somebody that I ran into at the aforementioned Survivor 50 finale.

Here is the great. Julia Sokolowski. Julia, how are you? I'm great. How are you both? Thanks for having me. Yeah, we're so excited that you were able to come on. And we've been watching this Survivor Co-Rong 10 years later.

and we have so many questions for you about your game and this game that we just watched. But how are you doing? I'm great. I'm great. I know. I really cannot believe it's been 10 years. It's wild. It was so fun to see you at the reunion a couple weeks ago now, I guess.

But yeah, it's, I'm good. I'm just like chugging along. Life has changed quite a bit for me. No doubt. You know, I'm no longer a college student. Thank God. and I'm a corporate girlie and I'm married and I'm living my life. So all is good. Yeah. What are you doing these days?

I actually, so I actually live up in Vermont. Kind of a crazy story how I got here. I grew up in Vermont. And then eventually when I graduated from BU, I moved to New York for several years to start my career. And then I got a job actually at TikTok. And I moved to Austin, Texas, for a little bit of time for that job. And in between, I came back up to Vermont to transition and stay with my parents. And I met my now husband. So my stint in Austin was pretty short. Moved back up here.

I work remote for Bumble, the dating app. So if anyone's single, you should download Bumble. And yeah, that's basically it. I'm living in my best life. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of fun. I travel a lot. but just, you know, working for the man doing the ground.

So a question that we had for you, just to go back to your story, was that we assumed you must have been a huge survivor fan. And I feel like that the show didn't really highlight that part of you so much as somebody who comes in. You're so young when you played on the show. But for you to be such a young person on the show, you must have really, really impressed them with your knowledge of Survivor that they thought you could handle it. Yeah, it's so funny you say that.

I definitely was a big fan. I'd been watching since I was a kid. I think the first season aired when I was like maybe five, five or six. And so I had watched all of the seasons leading up to the time that I got on the show. And I basically applied the second I got to college. I was like, I'm free.

And I was, I think the season that was airing at the time was it was a blood versus water. And I was so excited. I went through the casting process actually really, really quickly. And I found out I was going on the show pretty fast at the time, too, because I had to figure out how I was going to end up leaving school and not lose any tuition because they filmed my second semester of college. And so it was a pretty amazing experience for me,

but I think something that did really help in the casting process was my survivor knowledge, was my, like, fandom. Because I ultimately started filming when I was 18. I turned 19, I think, at, like, maybe day nine, day 10. And then it aired, obviously, a year later when I was 20. But it was, like, a pretty quick process for me overall. And I think just, like, my passion for the show, like, is really something that kind of, like, executed my casting process. But it definitely didn't come through, you know, I think throughout the series as much,

but it's also probably just due to my, like how my narrative ended up, you know, unruly like rolling out, I guess. Are you still a really big fan? Are you been keeping up with the new era? I saw you at the season 50. So up and down. I will say post like my season airing,

I was absolutely a huge fan. I was like very enthralled with the show. I was obsessed. And like, I mean, not a day went by. where I didn't think about Survivor still. Once, probably, like, once we hit season 40, I kind of was like, I need to figure out who Julia is

without being such a massive piece of my identity and me being so obsessed with it. So I definitely took a step back. I still dabble. I, like, join Survivor pools, and I'm, like, very interested in, like, the high-level version of Survivor these days. I try not to get too in the weeds and too obsessed with it.

But then, of course, at 50, I locked in and was excited to watch Aubrey and was excited to celebrate the milestone. We've been talking about this Survivor Co-Rong finale. And at the point that you came in, we were just talking about the difference between Aubrey's game in Survivor-Rong and the game she ultimately played in Survivor 50. Did you see a difference between the game that didn't get her the win in Co-Rong and the game that did get her the win in Season 50? Yeah, thousand percent. I think one of the biggest and most fascinating pieces of watching my season back for me was actually seeing Aubrey's game and the story and the strategy and the compelling nature of like what she was doing that wasn't visible to us. Because of course, like as a jury, right, like I saw Michelle's game clearly. And it was just in front of my face and she was friends with everyone. And like, you.

you know, Michelle captivates people. It's just her, in her nature. Sure. It's what she does. She's amazing at that. Aubrey's game during Kowrong was a little bit more sneaky. It was just really hard for us to clock. And I think the people that she didn't initially connect with, like, had an even harder time seeing what she was doing.

I think about, like, you know, my relationship with Aubrey on Kowrong was so, I don't want to say like tumultuous, but the foundation of it was so difficult because it started with the vote where she crossed my name out. And like, that's not really a great foundation for any relationship whatsoever. And so it was hard to recover from that. And I think, you know, similar experiences happen for other cast members on my season. This, I think she did season 50 a much better job of showcasing her game, showcasing her. showcasing her, you know, social ability, her ability to just navigate her relationships,

much cleaner and show people like what she was doing and the strings that she was pulling, which at the end of the day, that's what you need to do because the audience can see one story, but the jury is the, they're the people that need to see the actual gameplay going on at the moment. And it's hard to figure out how to navigate that balance

of telling a really compelling story, showing that you're like an underdog and, you know, you have this amazing strategic gameplay. but then making sure that it's apparent to the people that you're playing with in a way that doesn't also turn them off. Yeah. It's been such a fun season to go back and rewatch because it's a season where there's so many different things where that in this season in particular, where one thing changes and like everything changes. And there were so many different times where just like, you know, the challenges are so close and then one person wins it. And then that changes the whole thing. But really, when you win individual immunity and it's such a great moment in the season, when you stack the dominoes and they fall.

And that really creates a lot of the problems for Aubrey in that it would have been a clean vote to vote you out that night. And then ultimately that creates the situation where then Debbie is telling you the plan and then they have to vote out Debbie at this tribal council. And Debbie obviously feels some type of way about all of that. But that was really, you know, a huge moment for you where you're the double agent between the two alliances. Yeah, totally. I mean, I would say to this day, that's the vote that keeps me up at night. Like, I think it could have really changed the entire trajectory of the game. It could have changed the entire final three.

It was like, and watching it back was so wild for me. I didn't realize the allegiance, I think, that Debbie had to me. I don't know if I, like, at the time just thought she was like, cookey and like, or what was going on. But, like, I didn't pick up on her, like, love for me until I watched it back. But I think about that vote a lot and that win a lot because it was not only did I need that win. and I think it was the moment that showcase that I was playing. Like, because, you know, I would say up until I wasn't like a strong character on my season. Like there's no doubt about that.

So I think it was a breakout moment for me in the, like in the fact that, okay, she's doing something. Like she has her hands in different pockets. She's talking to different people. But I do think like, you know, looking back, I think if I voted with Scott, Jason, and Ty, my game probably would have gone further. even though voting out Debbie with Michelle, Aubrey, and Sydney was the easiest move for me in the moment, right? Because it wasn't affecting Scott Jason and Ty. It was proving my allegiance to that side, even though ultimately I'm still on the bottom of both alliances.

So, like, my hands were kind of tied. It was going to be at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did. It did. It worked for Michelle. So, you know, you never know.

And I do think, like, if I voted Sydney with Scott, Jason, and Ty, that I probably could have pulled in Michelle on that side. There was a clear story to tell the Debbie of, like, look, who voted you out. Aubrey, you know, Sydney, Michelle, et cetera. So could have probably, like, swung her in some capacity. So it's definitely that whole time of the game was so, it's like the scrambled eggs in my head to this day, years later. What was it that caused you to go with the women and vote against Debbie? I mean, Michelle. Like, it was Michelle.

It was, you know, she, we were definitely, she was closer to, I think, Aubrey and Sydney at that point. And I was definitely closer to Scott and Jason. But it was a moment for her that she, you know, pulled me over and said, you need to prove that you're with them. I mean, that was like a piece of Michelle's game that I don't think was Highland. I did very well, but it was like, you know, I remember like telling her at one point that Scott and Jason, et cetera, are going to freak out when we vote out Nick. Like it was a clear red flag to me that at that point, Michelle, we're going to blow everything up. And this was a guiding moment for her to me of being like, if you want to prove, you know,

that you are aligned with Sydney and you want to prove that you have something with Aubrey here, like you have to vote this way. and I did. I have a question. So when it comes to these guys, Scott and Jason, big, huge characters, Rob has said that they were probably the last two real survivor villains. But you got along with them so great. How were you able to do that despite all the despicable things they were doing around the camp?

Yeah, that's a really good question. It's so funny, too, because it's like, we're so opposite. I was just, you know, this, like, kid out there that really, like, was bopping around. and then there's these two really strong characters. And I think, like, looking back, and I would never defend a lot of the things that Scott and Jason did, like, they were causing chaos, and they were absolutely, like, leaning into the fact

that they were going to be these villains, right? Like, and I guess to some extent, you have to think about the fact that they're these huge, kind of, like, scary-looking dudes that are labeled Braun, right? Like, and we're on a reality TV, show, like they're going to play into that archetype from here and there. But I think what really helped me lock in my relationships with them was I saw like a clear path for me where there wasn't really a clear path for me elsewhere. It was like, oh, everyone knows that

neither of them will win. And this is really my one shot when I'm up against powerhouses like Sydney, Aubrey, Michelle, etc. Like they were my clear path. But then like when I came back from my wonderful time at exile. I think my, you know, voting Peter with Scott, like really solidified my relationship with him. And I think Scott and I were a lot closer than the show led on. We definitely had some kind of like father-daughter relationship where we really connected. I listened to him. I would, you know, spend time with him.

Like, I wanted to know his story. I wanted to know his background. I wanted to know his motivation for being on this show. when he's lived such an insane life. Like, you know, to me at the time, this was the biggest thing of my life, right? Like, I was a freshman in college. Nothing could get bigger than this moment.

For him, you know, this was just like another day, another adventure. And so it was really, like, fascinating to me to understand, like, why he was here. And we really, like, bonded and connected. So as much as I knew, like, they were causing chaos and they were leading into this, like, villain edit, that wasn't the relationship I personally had with Scott.

And so it was actually kind of like hard to watch in a way when I watched it back. Because that's not, it wasn't the reality I was living. I obviously saw it to an extent, but not to the extent that I realized like once it was on TV. Something that we saw also in the episodes is that when they were not together, both of them alone was fine. It was really the combination, much like the super idol, you put the two together. and then that was going to be a problem? That was 100%. I mean, that was, it was totally it.

Like, they were, they were a super idol in, you know, their own right. Like, it was, it was crazy to see them together. It was even that way at Ponderosa. Like, they were, Scott was Scott until Jason got there. And it was a different game. But, and they're great separately. Like, they're great together too, I guess, in like their fun character way. But separately and individually as people, they have like totally different

backgrounds. They have totally different lives and they're they're both really wonderful. Like Scott and I had such a great relationship even after, you know, the show. He helped me get an internship with the Celtics. Like we went out and visited his family like Michelle and I did and it wasn't like, there was no kind of like villainness at all to him. I think they just hyped each other up and it really, you know, it's, you know, bullies travel and packs, right? I'm not saying they were bullies, but like in that moment and when that's what you the character that you're being pushed to be is

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From your perspective, you identified that these two people will be very easy to beat if you sat next to them at the end. But why didn't anybody else feel the same way? How did they both get voted out? You know, I really don't know. I think I just like, I honestly don't know. I think it's a crazy, crazy thing that neither of them ultimately ended up making it to the end. I think it probably does play into the fact that them as individual people are great and have great stories, which we didn't, you know, see a lot of because it didn't fit the narrative. But I do, I do remember people specifically Jason saying that, like, his story and his motive for being out there and, like, his fight was, it was something that could move people.

I still don't think he would have won. I don't think either of them would have won. Like, honestly, sitting, and maybe sitting next to Joe, they would have won. But, like, honestly, other than that, I don't. Happy birthday to Joe Del Campo this weekend. Oh, who's at an 81 in getting it done.

Wow. Crazy. Crazy. All my questions for you are so niche. Like, I have to talk to you about my favorite moment of the season. I want to know your reaction to this. Michelle gets to vote somebody out. of the jury, and she chooses Neil the ice cream man,

and he gives this ridiculous speech. Do you remember this moment? I do. I do. What was going through your mind when Neil starts uttering the words, you think you're a bad bitch? It's actually so crazy. I honestly remember in the moment,

first of all, I don't think Michelle was clocking what he was saying. really don't think she had a single clue, like a word that came out of his mouth. And because honestly, it was hard for us to even understand him in the moment. And I just remember, like, looking to everyone on the jury being like, what did he say? What did he say? And I think Nick somehow, like, heard every single word. But I was, it was just a shocking moment overall. And, you know, it's funny because I think these, though, like that,

particular moment and then Scott and Jason, they're dynamic. Those are the things that ultimately I think created this like bitter jury connotation with our season because ultimately like if you I don't really believe in a bitter jury right because we saw the game that we saw and we voted for who played the best game that we saw. So therefore that person deserves to win. And if you look at the votes on our season right, like most people voted. Michelle. I think the other, I think Joe and Nick voted Aubrey and everyone else voted Michelle. So, like, you can't, can you say, like, Sydney was bitter, right? No, you can't say, like, these people necessarily were bitter. But I do think that there's, there was just a negative

energy tied to some of the elements of our season that kind of, I think then kind of leaves this taste in your mouth of a bitter jury. And it wasn't necessarily, um, how the votes were. It was just kind of the characters. And I think Neil's exit, there was like a perfect example of that, right? It wasn't, nothing was led with kindness, I will say. Yeah. Well, with the Neil getting voted out of the jury, a couple of things on this. That I wonder, he must have said it so low that because it seemed like that Jeff couldn't even hear what was said. Yeah. Jeff even says something like, well, it looks like that that was something that was very tense. that was just said. Yeah. The way Neil moves is so odd.

He seems like we've seen so many people voted out of the game. They know what to do. They stand up. They get their torch. They go stay under there. He got voted out of the jury. He stands up. He seems to be like wandering around.

He's like looking around. He doesn't know what to do with his hands. He's like he walks up to Michelle. It's like a weird. She's sitting. He goes up to stand up to her. I guess they must not have prepped. They didn't tell you all.

What was going to happen today? Yeah. Yeah, no, I definitely don't think they've prepped. And I do remember in that moment, like, again, we really couldn't understand what he was saying. But I do remember being like, what hell is going on? Like, it was just such a weird. Yeah, I remember him like twirling, not like, you know, like twirling around, but like circling and just it really didn't make sense. there was no clear flow to it.

And then he kind of was just gone. And I was like, I have no idea what happened. But like definitely it was a correct choice based on that entire experience. Julie, was he back at Ponderosa with you all? Or did they totally take him out? You know, that's a really good question. I think from what I remember, he wasn't back at Ponduras. They butted him out of Ponderosa?

No, maybe he what. No, he was. He was. It was actually so, it was, it was weird with Neil because he had his, like, infections. So he wasn't always at Ponderosa with us because he had to go to, like, doctor stuff and then he would come back. So I don't, I don't really remember. He came back with us. Yeah. Oh, my God. Could you talk about the vibe at Ponderosa and what it was like because that can be its own thing. And so, like, what types of things were people talking about as they were coming out of the game? I mean, I personally loved Ponderosa.

For me, Ponderosa was, like, the best nine days of my life. It was so much fun. It was a vacation for me, I felt. But our vibes were good. What is it so fun? It just was like, I mean, okay, so like, I recently rewatched the Sean White documentary, and he talks a lot about his first Olympics, right? When he's 19 and he's doing his qualifying rounds

and he's just absolutely bombing his first couple runs. And he says, like his mindset at the time was like, I wasn't really thinking about the gravity of what was happening. I was just like happy to be there. And that was kind of my experience. Like I was just, I wasn't the first person voted out. I made the merge. I played the best game I could for someone who didn't have a fully developed frontal lobe.

But like, I really think that, like, it was just, aside from winning, it was like the best outcome for me that could have happened. And I just couldn't even, like, grasp the fact that I was having this experience. So I was just ready to, like, soak it in and have a good time. And I think when I first got there, vibes were great. It was, you know, Scott and Debbie. And everyone at that point was pretty welcoming and Nick and Neil. And they were fun. And it was fun for me because I think, like, I, like, I.

brought some fresh perspective, like, at the time, and I just, I didn't want to have a good time. And I think that everyone kind of, like, caught on to that. As time went on and, like, more people joined, Jason joined, it got a little bit more tense, I would say. And I think, like, I look back on that time being, like, I wish I was more inviting to the people that came back to Ponderosa. Like, there was no. And, like, again, that plays. into the whole bitter jury element, I think that's tied to our season. It's like, I could have been warmer to Sydney when she came. Like, Jason and Scott, you know, had their camaraderie and they're

kind of like, again, once they were together, they would like fuel each other's fire and things would get negative when they would get on the game and harp on certain elements of it. So it would get a little intense from time to time. I mean, we're all still like traumatized from it all, like processing it all. But, oh, okay. Overall, like, my Ponderosa experience was great. You know, one of the things has always stuck with me from your season is that, you know, you were in a couple really, like, tough moments

when it came to the heat and the element out there. And we saw, you know, Be Smold, Cowboy get Medevac from your tribe. But it's always stuck with me that this man almost died for salt and pepper. Do you ever just think about that? Yeah, it's so ridiculous. It's like the most of it. Like, I, and it's also, crazy because we would like boil the ocean water in the walk to get salt. And so the fact that

we were like working so hard to win salt and pepper is just like mind blowing to me at this moment in time when I think about that. Yeah, no, it was so ridiculous. I mean, like the heat was bad. It was it was really bad. But I also didn't, you know, this was my first survivor experience. It was everyone else's first survivor experience. So from our understanding like every season is like that, right? like every season can be that grueling. And I guess according to everyone else, it's not typically that bad. Yeah.

We were wondering when we watched that challenge back where you had to, there was a big, like, pit of sand and you had to, like, dig for balls. And it was like one of the hottest days ever on Survivor. And we were wondering maybe was everybody just like, all right, let's just like half ass on the digging. and that somebody else will find it, but then because nobody was really going that hard, then you ended up just like baking in the sun for an hour. Yeah, I think that was a huge piece of it.

I remember, like, it being, I was sitting out of that challenge. I think back to that, I'm like, thank God I'm sitting out of that challenge. But I do remember it being really, really long. Like the digging part, I'm not, I don't know if they did the timestamps. I can't remember, but it was like an hour. Yeah, it was a long time. And people were giving up because I just think that they were so depleted and it was so hot. It was such a lame reward.

It was such a lame reward. There was not really like a moat. Like nothing really motivating, right? And then once someone like gets something, it, you know, spikes everyone's interest to start participating again. But it was like, I do remember. I think people were just kind of like, this is insane. I cannot believe that we're working this hard. And it was so uncomfortable.

comfortably hot. Like even for me not doing anything just sitting there, I was like in pain. So I, you know, it was it was hard to see everyone go down for sure. Yeah. Yeah. What was that like watching that from the sideline seeing, you know, Caleb end up in the in the helicopter. So, you know, in all the chaos that was going on. I mean, Caleb was a very, um, at this point in the, I mean, obviously, I guess he wasn't there after, but at the, up until he left, um, he was a super vocal person and he was just super animated and would always kind of like communicate about like even if it didn't make sense like what was, you know, he thought was going on. When he walked away off to the side, I was like something is immediately wrong. I remember like I think I was like one of,

because I wasn't participating, I was one of the first people over to him and I looked over and I saw his eyes roll to the back of his head. And I was like, oh, this is very serious. Like he was not responsive. And then you saw everyone else going down around you. You saw Sydney go down. I mean, seeing Sydney go down too. Like both Caleb and Sydney are two like of the most physically fit people I've ever seen in my entire life. And so to see them be so impacted in this moment was absolutely like so scary. Like I will, I remember hearing them say like that they were going to bring in the chopper. And I remember like the doctors coming over to us and tell us. us what was going on.

But I almost thought like because Sydney and Debbie were still down at that point, I was like, oh, this might be it. Like show might be done right now because if three people were going to be evacuated, like, well, like they would have to pull the plot. I mean, I don't know what they would do, but there was not really a show to be had after that. So it was scary. Julia, do I remember it right?

Were you the person who identified Caleb from Big Brother? Yeah. I do, I will never forget, like, seeing, it was before we even actually left to fly out to Cambodia. I remember seeing him in the hotel before we were leaving. And I was like, oh my God, big brother guys here. I was, and then in that moment in my like 18 year old head, I was like, I'm so smart. I already know someone who's playing. I know like that strategy. But yeah, he was very different from. like what I expected and what I had seen on Big Brother. But yeah, I was the one that identified them. And I told my tribe to try to like, or I told the girls on my tribe, I think, to try to, you know, make connection with them. And it worked really quickly. Like we all, it was like, we needed one common thread or something to kind of like bond us. It's like, you know, complimenting a girl in their shoes in the back room, like at the club.

Like literally that's what it was. And it just worked. And we were good from there on out. Do you still watch Big Brother? I don't. I don't. I need to, I've gone through faces. No, no, no. It's fine. You're good. You're in such a good place now.

Yeah, you're so happy. Do you want to do that to yourself? Yeah. I know, it's true. I felt bad, though. At season 50 finale, like, these people were like, oh, I'm on Big Brother and I was like, sorry. I don't know. I was on Survivor 10 years ago. You probably don't remember me, but. Did you ever consider playing Survivor again? Did you ever get a call? Like, what's been your relationship with the game as far as, like, you know, since you play? Yeah.

I mean, I would love to play again. I have not, despite some online rumors, I have not really been considered at all. I mean, at least, you know, to my knowledge, I haven't been considered at all. I was like, I remember actually, like, right after my season, I was helping with doing some casting stuff, which was fun. I was, you know, on a college campus and I was in Boston and I was bartending. and all that stuff. So I was meeting people all the time and they liked that. So I, you know, send people in and whatnot. But I really haven't like been in Survivor World in quite some time. But I would absolutely play again. I think, you know, so much time has gone by. And I'm,

I definitely feel like I'm a different person at this point. I look back at some of my like press at the time that I did it. And I'm like, oh my God, cringe. It's so cringy. I can't handle it. So it's, you know, I think I would, and obviously my messy middle playing the middle was like so transparent at the time. But so I feel like I've evolved quite a bit. And I would love to do it. But no, haven't really had that had the opportunity. So we just watched the reunion show as well for Survivor Co-Rong. And I'd love to know.

Do you have any stories from what it was like when the cast got back together for the reunion show. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, it was actually really funny because when we, between the time that we stopped filming and then the season aired and then the reunion, like we had a year. So it was a lot of. Yeah. Just for people who don't remember, so they shot your season and then they did the second

chances and then they decided to air the seasons and shoot the. the season that they shot first, shoot it, errant after second chances. Yeah, yeah. So it was a long way. And we didn't find out, I think, till, I mean, I don't know when we found out, but it was like, we were done shooting and everything.

So we were like, oh, my God, we have to wait. I felt for Aubrey and Michelle and Ty. Like we had a good idea of who won, but it still was a brutal year. And at the time, like in that period between, The closest person in physical proximity to me was Aubrey. So I actually spent like quite a bit of time with her. She was living in Cambridge and I was at BU.

And we got a chance to develop like a friendship outside of the game because our relationship in the game wasn't anything super special. So it was really nice to like connect with her outside and and really kind of like go through this like trauma bonding experience with her too. And then Michelle and I were obviously like super, super close and still are to this day. and she ended up living with me after the show aired. But by the time we got to the actual live reunion, I think I had like seen almost everyone who was on the jury at one point or another

over the course of the year because we had so much time. So we would like go visit each other and we would, you know, watch the episodes together. And we would, before it even started airing, we were visiting each other. But yeah, I remember the night before the live reunion. this is actually such a funny story. So I ended up, you get, like, I don't know how many tickets you get to the live reunion. You get, like, six or something like that.

And I had brought my family, but I had also brought my college roommates. And we, like, still tell this story constantly. And there's, you know, the party the night before. And we all ended up just like, I mean, we were college kids. So we just went so hard at this party the night before. Like, we were, it was, my parents. parents were there and we were the drunkest girls at the party. Like we went so hard. And I remember like stealing a bottle of absolute peach from the bar. And Aubrey brought me home. The morning of the

finale, I woke up on Aubrey's hotel room floor in my outfit from the night before. My roommates are nowhere to be found. I have no idea where they are. I like, I go downstairs to my hotel room. We had to be in the lobby of the hotel in like an hour. And I'm like freaking out. Michelle is panicking. She's like, where are you? I went home with Aubrey. I walked down to the lobby and the entire cast was like, are you okay?

And in my head, I was like, everyone was on this level. Everyone was having the best time last night. And everyone was like, you showed your age. Like that was not the night before the live reunion when you're going to be sitting in like full hair makeup all day in the studio all day. asking, answering questions, like doing all this stuff. Like that was not the night to do that. And it was, my roommates still, like, think it's the funniest story.

They tell it everywhere we go. I'm still, like, really good friends with them. But they're like, oh, yeah, I remember so-and-so from Survivor finale. We have all these crazy pictures of, like, my parents in Thai. And, like, it's just so, it's ridiculous. But we had a great time. That's incredible. What was your experience like at this most recent, you know, finale and

union special because it's very different now that you're 10 years older, you probably can handle your alcohol a little bit better. Yes, yes, definitely. It was such a different experience, honestly. There were a couple things that stood out to me. I mean, one, I went as Michelle's plus one, and Michelle is Michelle. She's like, it's so funny, she can talk to a blank piece of paper, and I always thought that I was super outgoing, and then, like, I don't hold a candle to Michelle. She just, like, is insane with the way that she can, you know, remember everyone's name and have these conversations with people. So it was fun to see her in her element. And, you know, she's like really just blown up over the past several years with her experience on the challenge and whatnot. So it's

fun to see her in her element there. Something that else like that, I mean, I didn't recognize a lot of people from some of the more recent seasons. So it was fun for me to kind of try to figure out who people were because I would watch like the end of a lot of seasons. But something that really stood out to me was like the content piece of it and how much content people were getting and how everything in like the back rooms were set up to capture content. Because at the time of my season, like Instagram was in its dawn. Like it was so early on. I remember like Uber was barely a thing.

And I actually think we had like a social policy where we weren't allowed to. post like we could get in trouble for posting about Survivor because it was so so early on and so it was funny that everything was like designed to optimize like for content at this experience um but it was really I mean as a fan too it was cool for me to see I had met a lot of the people who were there previously but it was cool to see you know all the legends in one room um and it was just it it was like emotional whiplash like watching the actual like show be taped um because I mean, I haven't really been in Survivor World since my live reunion. So it was just like a weird bookend to, you know, my experience in a way.

And it was magical, though. It really is. It's just such a cool thing to see. And I feel so honored that I got to be there and watch it happen. So in the Co-Rong live finale that there is a really huge moment where Jeff is talking to Ty. And then we hear from the audience, somebody. And when I was really watching, I was like, oh, my God, there's like somebody there is going to bum rush the stage. Everybody's in danger.

And here comes Sia coming up on the stage to give Ty $50,000 for his treatment of Mark the chicken. And she might as, you know, Sia might have been coming for you who you said you wanted to eat Mark the chicken at one point. Yes. Yes. But, yeah, what was your, what was. going through your mind as Sia came to the stage. Okay, well, first of all, I need to call out officially that I named Mark the chicken. Oh, nice.

I don't know if anyone else has claimed that, but it was me. It was me. I named Mark. Like, I loved to name that, even though I wanted to eat him, like I also wanted to name him. So that was my doing. You take his life and also maybe death. Yeah. Yes.

I remember that moment, like, being so, I mean, we had no idea what was going on. Like, I truly had no idea that, like, time was about, I mean, I think, like, there's a shot of my face, like, with, like, my jaw actually dropped. Like, I was so shocked. But, I mean, that was really, it was cool to be part of the, or be there when this happened for the very first time, which is now such a legacy. And, you know, I mean, I guess not so much. They did it this year, right? It went away, it came back. Yeah.

Is it back? Is it back? I think that Sia put up the money that went to Sarii. I need to see the check because I think they got Rousseer. They stopped letting Sia do this a little bit ago, Julia. I think she got too reckless just giving out money. Yeah. But I do think that she put up the $100,000 that Sari got this time.

Okay. I respect it. Okay. That's cool. That's cool. But yeah, no. They don't let her pick who gets it, but they'll still let her give her money. You don't, you actually have no say in who it goes to or what it's for, but feel free to hand us some money.

Yeah. But that must have been still a wild moment where nobody knew what was happening. I don't even think that Jeff knew what she was doing and she jumped out of the audience to give $50,000 to tie and also $50,000 to an animal charity. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I forgot. I forgot that she did that. I mean, that's crazy.

And it's all because of Mark, right? Which I named. No, that's what. I mean, yeah, I just remember that being such a while. I remember, like, when we cut to commercial, everyone was like what just happened and what, like, was that planned? Was that supposed to happen? But Ty really did love all of those little animals.

So she definitely picked the right person. You know, you were with Ty from the beginning of the game in the Beauty Tribe. was your relationship like with Ty? I mean, I loved Ty. I would say, like, did I have the closest relationship with Ty out of, you know, everyone? No, but we had a great relationship until I was, till everyone got a little flip-floppy. I would argue Ty was almost more flip-floppy than me, even though I have that. I was very transparent about my flip-floppiness. Ty, not so much. But, like, we had a great relationship. He really is like a wonderful human, just wonderful. wonderful, so kind, just the best.

And it, you know, I don't, like there's not like much to say about him besides the fact that he's just truly like him. Like he is one of those people that you see all of the good pieces on the show and that's really like who he is as a human. Risa's knows a thing or two about great combinations. Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously. But there's more than one way to Rises. From indulgent Reese's big cups with caramel

to crunchy Reese's pieces and Reese's miniatures, there's a delicious Reese's for every mood. It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Reese's. I want to go back to what you said about your flip-floppy strategy

because I think that a lot of times we talk about Will, who played the season after you, who was also a younger, person. I think he was in high school. He might have been younger than you. Yeah. On Millennials versus Gen X. But he also was, I was talking about like the pendulum strategy. But you, you played first. And I'm interested to know, did you have an influence? Did you see somebody else play like the way you were playing before that you were trying to copy? Like, I can't think of any one person off the top of my head. And I definitely, when I think of people that may have like

tried to play the middle. I definitely can't think of anyone that was that, like, transparent. Um, but, uh, I think, to be honest, like, it wasn't even, I didn't go in with that strategy. It just really just became like the only path I think for me. And it was the, I knew too, I didn't want to like, I got to a point where like, like, I think the whole first half of my game, it was again like that like shock of just like, I cannot believe this is happening to me. I'm just happy to be here. I want to perform as best as I can in challenges. I don't want to be the first person voted out.

If that kind of works for me, then I'll start to like lock in and see what we can do. And I might have gotten to that like lock in point too late where really my path was the middle or nothing. Or I was going to be just a vote that, you know, got dragged along with Aubrey. I was going to be like a, like I don't want to say like a Natalie Tenorelli. or anything, but like one of those people, which I like, you know, it's, I, there's value in those players, but that's not what I wanted my legacy to be. And so I think playing the middle was just like the only, the only path I saw. So it, you know, and I do think when it's played smoothly, it can be a great path. I just did not have the finesse at the time to pull that off.

I love that you talk about how transparent you were because on the show, you did seem very transparent about it, but I did some research because we were, you know, it's been 10 years. So I was listening to old interviews and stuff like that. And Debbie was like 10 toes down. Like, no, Julia is still with me. She's voted out of the game at this point. She's watching the same show we're watching. And she's like, no. Julia, they voted her out. They shouldn't, they shouldn't have voted me out. I tried to tell them. Julia's with us. But every confessional we get from you is like, I'm playing the middle. I'm not with them. I'm with both sides. Yeah. I was playing the middle. I was playing the middle. I definitely was not with the girls.

I mean, like, I was with Michelle. I was with Michelle. So, like, I think, like, that is true. And so to an extent I was with them, was I, like, die hard for Debbie? Absolutely not. And definitely not, like, Aubrey or Sydney either. But, yeah, no, I don't really know what Debbie saw there. I really don't.

So I listened to the interview that I did with Debbie after she got voted out. She also said, so in that episode where she gets voted out, that you had to pick, Jeff said, hey, you know what, everybody today, just pick your own team for the challenge. And that Scott and Ty and Jason, they were all on one side. And they needed somebody to go over and be with the guys. And you volunteered to do it. Debbie said that you went over to volunteer and that you were trying to throw the challenge so that the women would win.

Now, you don't have to lie. No, yeah. I mean, it was talked about throwing the challenge. Like when we were huddling, like as a group trying to figure out who was going to go, which I will say overall it happened. And it wasn't like super fast. But it wasn't, I don't know, there was time that went into deciding who was going to go. It wasn't like, it took 10 minutes to decide who was going to go over.

Yeah. I don't know if it took 10 minutes. And maybe it took like four minutes. Like there was definitely some deliberation. Like there was definitely a little bit of thought. It wasn't super immediate. But it was quick. And during that time, we did talk about whoever does go should try to throw.

throw the challenge. Like, but in my head, I'm like, you're not like, Jason and Scott, you're throwing these beanbags. Like, you're, like, throw the challenge. What do you mean? Like, that's going to be, you're going to have to like pretend you can't get through the ropes. Like, it would, it was, that was a challenge that would be really hard to throw. Um, there's no puzzle at the end. There was nothing that you could kind of like intentionally bomb. So, although that idea was tossed around, like, there was no way that challenge could really have been thrown. It was definitely a super collaborative challenge that had a very clear ending to it that if someone was going to, like, dominate it, they would.

But yeah, I think at that moment, I saw like a clear opportunity for myself to reconnect specifically with Scott at the time because of the Nick vote, too. It was, I think this was right, was this right after the NICO vote? It might have been because Scott and Debbie were still there. So it must have been. And so it was like, I knew that bothered Scott and Jason and I wanted to kind of like heal my relationship with Scott. So I knew that having extra time, whether we won or lost, was going to be setting myself up for reintegrating into that group a little bit more cleanly, even though it was messy. Yeah.

At the final tribal council, was there anything that, and I don't know if you even remember, was there anything that didn't get shown at the final tribal council that you thought was interesting? That's a good question. I don't remember anything. It's been so long that I don't remember anything super specific. I remember Mark the Shagic being there the whole past. in because we were talking about that Scott comes in and he's pretty he's pretty hot but Jason and then he asked a question to Michelle and he asks her about that oh so you didn't know about

the blind side and he said oh so you got lucky and she said no I worked my way in and then he asks a question to tie he didn't ask anything to Aubrey here in what we saw on the episode which I thought was odd I don't think he did ask Aubrey anything. If I'm thinking back to that time, I really don't think he asked Aubrey anything. I know Scott was not, I mean, I don't want to speak for Scott, but from what I remember, like, I don't think he was an Aubrey fan. And I think a lot of it, again, like, like, eventually, I think, you know, you have respect for Aubrey. And like, I personally love Aubrey and have so much respect for her now. But, like, I think at the time, like, he was really upset. And, like,

by, like what threw him off was the initial vote after, you know, my exile when my name was crossed out. And then from there on out, like, Aubrey's relationship with Joe, like, really pissed him off for variety of reasons. And like, so I just don't think, I also just don't think that they, like, connected. Like, they really didn't connect. And I think, you know, like, what I've kind of, like, learned and I think Aubrey's 50 game showed us. this is like regardless or not, if you are going to work with someone, you have to have some sort of relationship with everyone. And like, it just, I don't think they really had a relationship from what I remember at the time. And so I do, I don't think he did ask her a single, a single question.

Did I ask Aubrey question? Let me see. I don't think so. But I was really impressed by your question. Your question was for Michelle. You kind of go to her and you talk about how she was looked at as one of the weaker people in the jury. I mean, on the beauty tribe, you were like, hey, at the beginning of the game, you were weaker. And then you kind of got dragged to. I think you did. I think you asked each of them a kind of like, you kind of gave your version of the events. But I always thought that question was very mature for someone so young because, you know,

I think watching the show, we think Julia's going to vote for Michelle, you know. But it didn't really feel like you asked her a very, like, good question. It wasn't as softball as it could have been. And it was a bit of a fake out, because especially the music, they made it sound like, oh, wow, Julia's Ripping Michelle a new one And then is like And you voted me out

And then What you were proud of Yeah Yeah But I mean I think I think it was I also had to do that Because as much as I love Michelle

And I was I mean it was her moment To like do something like that And she she did And like it was You know She had to make that move at that time And I was proud of her

But I also was like I was mad at her too At the same time right Like she voted me out So I needed for, I remember being like, I have to ask this in a specific way to like show her that like I'm, I'm pissed off at you, but I'm proud of you. Like I put respect on my own game and take like, you know, can like be confident in the game that I played and know that like I'm what you did, you had to do and just like acknowledge that in a very specific way. And then like move forward. And I don't know.

It was, and I think too, like it, she needed a question like that, though, to like help guide the rest of her answers, I think. Like, knowing that she had like that confidence that someone was going to vote for her, even though it got, like, it started out dark, I think helped her articulate herself moving forward. So were there any other moments from your experience that they didn't show that you were hoping would have been in the episodes? I mean, we had like, we did have a lot of fun. I actually remember, I know like maybe I've blocked out a lot of the bad stuff, but I feel like we had a lot of fun. Like it was, I remember just like the cast, obviously it was a crew of really strong characters and that did translate in real life to just like kookiness.

Like there were some behind the scenes things that I think, you know, we're on YouTube and whatnot of like us playing us bowling. And we had this like lagoon on the side. And when it would rain, we'd all go in there. And we would do like massage trains with the sand. And like I just remember having a great time. I don't think a lot of that came through in the show. You see a little bit more of it in like the early episodes with Ty and Caleb and the,

you know, stolen kiss and all of that. But it was. I feel like that really did kind of occur throughout most of the season. And so, and I mean, I mean, they showed plenty of the infections. So you guys got a good chunk of that. And you managed to come out on Skateh. Yeah. Did you have any anything from the season?

I had nothing. I don't know how that happened to me. I got really, really lucky. So you're only with Dr. Peter for like one day, I think. Yeah, yeah. We've heard that Dr. Peter is to blame. for all of these ailments. You know, that's what the internet's been saying.

Has it? Should I go redoing out this? I mean, you could be. I'm sure. That was the theory that came up because he was the common denominator between every single person that got one of those infections. He was lancing the, you know, the, the things and working on people. Every single person on the Brains tribe and then Thai.

Yeah. And ties came from a different, I mean, I guess, I don't know. No, that's a really good point. Yeah, because everybody's like, I have this thing. Peter, can you check it out? Yeah. Yeah. I remember Peter, like, my experience with Peter was so short-lived.

It was like maybe two or three nights or something like that. But he had some crazy ER stories that, you know, like wild, wild. I just remember like sitting listening to this and I was like HIPAA, right? Like, I don't know. Not even like too specific, but just like the general concepts of these stories was like, I could not imagine. That was the moment I knew I didn't want to go into the medical field. I was like, okay, I'm going to go back to my communications studies at school. Real.

Are you still close with anybody that we haven't talked about? Maybe like the Peters and Liz Markhams of the world. Maybe Jennifer Lanzetti? Yeah, that's a good question. No. I'm still super, super close with Michelle. She's like one of my best friends. I will communicate with Scott. Every once in a blue moon. Like, for example, he's had some health, like complications over the past a couple years. And, you know, I don't, it's not like we're in contact every day, but he's someone

that was a significant part of my experience. And I care about him and want to make sure that, you know, he's doing okay. And so we've, you know, reached out a little bit. Aubrey is someone that like, I'll be in touch with here and there too. But other than that, I really don't talk to anyone. I mean, like, I can't even think. I saw Neil and Nick quite a bit for like, not quite a bit, but I would see them on and off for several years after the show aired, probably like five or six years.

We kind of like lost contact. But yeah, all the, you know, the Ponderosa pals. Ponderosa, yeah. But no one pre-merge. I don't like. I really don't. I don't talk to pre-merges. I don't talk to pre-R-Js.

I don't talk to-perger-Js. I don't talk to. Well, Julia, we have loved going back to Survivor Co-Rong, and it's even better than I remember. It's a fun one. It's a fun one. I think it's a really, now, like, watching it, I think it's such an interesting, pivotal time in Survivor world. Like, I think you really are transitioning from kind of, like, old school to new school.

And there's still this, like, like, like element of, I don't know, when you, like, when you look at the old seasons, everyone remembers like the villainous things, right? Like, you remember Corin's, like, jury speeches and you remember like really old school Johnny Fairplay stuff. Like you remember that stuff. We had bits and pieces of that, but we also had bits and pieces of like new school gameplay. Not really, but it was like, it was this pivotal, pivotal time and survivor, which I think makes it really fun along with the cast. And it's definitely, I don't know, it's an entertaining season, I think, more than like anything else. It's like it's really, it's a fun one to watch.

It feels like you can follow it really easily. You get attached to certain character, like a tie really easily. Like these first introductions of Ty and Aubrey and Michelle, like, it's fun to see their initial gameplay in their very first experience, just given now their survivor legacy. Yeah. it's a great season. The characters are great. You feel a lot along the way. And I think that the gameplay is, it doesn't feel like it's the Stone Age in terms of how the gameplay is. But there's not so many things where it's like, wait, I can't even follow what's happening. Right. Like it's like a perfect time in Survivor history. Totally. Totally. That's like something that I

think that I've struggled with over the past several seasons. As much as I love it, because I think that's the evolution of Survivor, right? Is like this always adapting gameplay to give the audience what they want, to see what's going to stick, to see what's most interesting, to keep the game fresh and interesting. I do think when there are too many layers, it can get a little convoluted. And to your point, I think it's a great season that has a little bit of it, but it's still easy to follow from an audience perspective.

Julie, when they, this was one of the seasons they got put on Netflix, right, around 20, 20. Did you get a lot of people reaching out at that point in time? I did. I did. It was so funny. I was like I thought I kind of like had moved past Survivor a little bit in my life. And I was like, oh, here it is again on Netflix, which was, it was fun now. It was like fun to kind of be recognized in the survivor world again.

It was fun to, that's when I first like really rewatched it for the first time. but yeah, it definitely had people reaching out. There was definitely a resurgence in that moment. And I think like COVID was great for Survivor and Survivor being on Netflix. Yeah, it really was. People just locked in and it had this whole resurgence of new fandom which is stuck with it, I think.

And so it's cool to be like one of those Netflix seasons and it feels very special now. So cool. All right. Well, Chappelle, do you? have any final thoughts for Survivor Co. Wrong? No, this was such a fun rewatch. I've always thought it was a good season, but I think, I don't want to be too critical of the new era, but in contrast to what we've been watching, it's such a like a breath of fresh air, you know, to kind of go back to

the things that we kind of fell in love with the show watching. This is pre, you know, the firemaking challenge being mandatory and pre so many other things, but also pre a lot of safety measures that they take. You know, we saw Julia and them take a lot of hits, you know, some infections, some dehydration, heat strokes, all those things in one season. And yeah, it's fun to watch it back because the characters really do make the season. They're not a dud amongst them. All of the characters are crazy. And it's such a good time to watch them. So this was, this was fun. We'll have to do this again one day. Yeah. And then at the end of the reunion show, Jeff, as he alludes to

Chappelle, you brought up, that, hey, we're going to Millennials versus Gen X, and Jeff says, this is one of my favorite places we've ever done the show, Fiji. You're going to love it. And it's like, boy, they did love it. Because then we've now shot,

I think, 18 seasons in a row in Fiji. But to go back, I think that's also what makes this season so fun, is to look at something that isn't in Fiji. Okay. Yeah, it looks different. Look, Fiji is apparently not as hot.

You know, I talked about those safety measures, so, you know, they made some changes. But I think that the product we got for Kowong is worth it. So a couple people had heat stroke, you know, it's fine. It's fine. Take us back. Take us back. Okay. Julie, is there anything that you want to tell people to check out?

Bumble. That's a great question. Check out Bumble if you're single. Yes, if you're single. download Bumble. It's great. And if you're not, don't tell, be careful. Just download it, but just don't

talk about it. Yeah. You can go to BFF, look for friends. Yeah. That's our new platonic French finding app. Yes. But yeah, no. I love Survivor. I'm so glad that I got to do this.

Will you come back for Survivor 51? In the open era. Yes. Definitely. Yeah, we would love to hear your opinion about the show. You have to come back for a recap and let Rob interview you. Yeah, but you got to be back in. I know you had tiptoed out for a little bit, but we would love to be welcome to you back in.

I know. I'll lean back in. I'll lean back in. I was, so like I, up in Vermont, there's a big group of people that are obsessed with Survivor, and they have this amazing survivor pool, and there's money on the line. So obviously that's when I, like, walk in. But I've been doing the, so like throughout 40 when I was kind of like out and in, or all the 40 seasons, 41, I guess, through 49.

I was watching the fall, no, the winter ones, the ones that started in February. So I would skip the fall ones and watch the ones that started in February and put my money in the pool to try to win. So I'm like, I've watched half. So now I need to lock back in or, you know, the 50 stretch of all. All right, fall's coming up. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Chappelle, what else is coming up for you? Same old stuff. Catch me on my podcast. Recap kickback. We're talking about the vampire listat, but we're also talking about House of the Dragon. Both of those seasons are well on their way. And so come check those out. And then, yeah, tune in to Recap Kickback on all social media platforms for future shenanigans, Rob. Okay. And we are also getting ready for Big Brother. Get ready. New season kicks off on Thursday night. We've got a ton of coverage coming your way. So be sure to check that all out. Julia, thank you so much for joining us for this. This was so nice that we finally got to get you here. And then Chappelle, what a pleasure it's been to go back all the way

through co-effing wrong. Yes, no, this has been co-effing right. And I've been having such a fun time. Talk to you about it. I can't wait to talk to you about Big Brother. We have the slop coming up behind the paywall for the patrons of RHAP. And so hopefully y'all are patrons, and you're going to hear this and then go become a patron and then hear me talk about all the ridiculous things that happen on Big Brother. And then you can catch me. Also, talking to David Bloomberg every week on YX lost Big Brother as well. So a lot of Big Brother coverage coming. But hopefully Rob, more Survivor rewatches like this. This was such a good time. Yeah, let's do it again. Thank you so much everybody. Take care of a good one. Bye.

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