RHAP: We Know Survivor - Kathy O’Brien Talks Survivor

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

This week, Rob and Kathy O'Brien sit down to talk about Survivor 49 episode 8.

Hey, everybody. What's going on? Rob Sisternino here. And I'm just delighted today to get the chance to catch back up with one of my all-time faves. Here she is. Of course, from Survivor Marquesa from Survivor All-Stars and so much more. It's Kathy O'Brien. Kathy, how are you? I'm great. It's so good to see and hear your voice. It's great to see and hear you. because you, first, if I may say, you look great, and of course, you sound great, too. Yeah, yeah, no, life is good. But, of course, I grab life, right? I enjoy it. I'm positive about it all, despite everything going on in Washington and whatnot.

Sure. You know, it's just, it's a joy just to be healthy, you know, and I live in a healthy state, right? So I'm going across this. Vermont or a state of mind? No, both. State of mind, but also Vermont. I mean, you know, we eat well, we're outside, we ski, we hike. And I think it keeps you young.

You got to do it. Yeah, I was going to ask you, what's your secret? Yeah, it's totally, you have to keep moving, right? I mean, I hike mountains, ski, snowboard, swim, sail. You snowboard? And yes, yes, I learned to snowboard. You know what happened is after Survivor All-Stars, the local ski area gave me this promotional package that every Sunday they picked me up with five friends and we went to J. Peake and we were in this

Learn to Ride program with Burton snowboards. And we had to be up there all day, but we learned to snowboard with these really cool, you know, rad dudes. And it was a riot that went on for like six Sundays in a row. And when you're on a snowboard every Sunday for seven hours, five times or seven times, you're going to learn how to snowboard. And so we all learned how to snowboard. It was really fun. I picked us up in a stretch limo. It was fun to go on a snowboard. Do you still snowboard? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I'm not an expert, but I swoosh down. You know, snowboarding is wonderful just because it's like surfing. You know, your hands are free. I'll take your word for it, Kathy. I don't know. Yeah, you should snowboard. I mean, it's such a freeze. I should. I should. Shouldn't I? Right. Yeah, you come up here.

I'll give you a lesson. Okay. That sounds good. What's your favorite thing to do out of all the different activities that you do? I would have to say sailing on Lake Champlain. Wow. It's just really fun. We got a lot of wind here. I'm a sailor, though, right? I've sailed the ocean, so it's just enjoyable.

We have the green mountains on one side, the Adirondex, and it's a long lake. So it's just fabulous. Our summers here are like out of a movie, so it's beautiful. Yeah, I can imagine it. When you sail, how many people do you need on the boat to go sailing, or can you do it by yourself? Oh, you can do it by yourself, but I'm usually sailing with like two or three people. You know, and we crank it out.

I used to sail the race, too, on the ocean. Oh, yeah, drinks, apps, the suns setting on the Adirondacks. Wow. It's pretty good. Yeah. And our, you know, just so, you know, our summer is up here, because we're north. You know, it gets dark at around 9.30 at night. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you can go sailing from like five to nine, and it's cool. Yeah. Yeah. And our lake is cool. Just, you know, our lake is very beautiful. It's almost 400 feet deep.

So it's clear, beautiful water. Hold on. Wait, is this a commercial that you're trying to get people, get leads to like, hey, Kathy, I need to move up. I need a summer home in Vermont. No, I just love my state. I love our little state. You're such an evangelist for it. It's expensive up here, but our little state.

I mean, Bernie Sanders, right? Yes. I mean, we were the first state that had vaccinations on our children. We had 75% of our, you know, population. was vaccinated and everybody else was having huge problems. I mean, we got our act together up here. Kathy, are you getting ready to run for office in Vermont? No, no, but it was funny.

I think, you know what was funny is a... I'd vote for you. Oh, yeah. I think after Survivor All-Stars, the Republicans came and wanted me to run for Secretary of State. And I'm such a Democrat. Oh, yeah, but wait a minute. Yeah. I am such a dem.

I am so blue. It's a blue state. Yes. Yes. Yeah, so I didn't do it. Okay. So you played on Survivor All-Stars, and then the local Republican Party came to you. They wanted you to run for what office, Secretary of State?

Secretary of State, yeah. But, you know, what was embarrassing is, I mean, I'm pretty good at politics. I get involved. But it was just because of the name recognition. They needed somebody with a name. It's about name recognition. Yeah. And I couldn't do it.

I couldn't be even a moderate. What was their pitch to you? they said you have good name recognition and we need we need another candidate for secretary of state great but and this was like in a closed door meeting was very secretive yeah said you know i think it's wonderful that you think i could take on this job i wish actually i had because i didn't realize the secretary of state by now has has a control on the voting systems right so active with that in other states because i think what's happening is a problem them. Right. And people

switch their affiliation. You'd be like, oh, I'm independent, you know. Yeah, no, I could have. Yeah. But no, but I just didn't want to do it. I could see you as somebody who I think, I would feel very assured if you were running something for me. Oh, yeah. Thank you. I, you know

what, though? I would like to get into politics, but it's not in the cards. But at that time, I was intrigued by it. But not now. Okay. Well, Kathy, thank you for making some time. to come here and talk about all things, Survivor. Do you keep up with the new episodes of Survivor?

I do. I do watch it. I don't like, you know, dive into every little criteria and things that are happening. But I have these friends that still watch it because I was on the show. So I sort of have to keep up with it and then we chit chat about it, but not, not heavily. And yet, and some of the shows, you know, I, you know, didn't get into, but some of them are. good. Like, I think, I think this season, 49, is good. Yes. Because I love, I love when the producers change it up. Like, I love this last episode where they had five and five.

It was like, yes, you need to break these people apart. Yes. I thought that was really smart. And do you remember, I remember after Survivor Marquesa, and I don't know if you ever talked to the challenge people, but I didn't realize that they run, they build parallel challenges. So if all of a sudden there's an issue and say everybody's dehydrated, they do a softer challenge. I didn't know this.

I wonder. That might be the old days. I don't think that they have this anymore. I don't think they do it now. But they did it back then and I went, really? They said, yeah, we always have like a parallel challenge built. And I wonder though if that five and five was kind of one of those parallels. Like we need to break these people apart.

But anyway. Yeah. I think they tend to do that a lot in. these newer seasons where they do it at 12 they do it at 10 and so they they have that and it was I thought an exciting week for the show even though I don't like it as much when they if they're merged I feel like Kathy keep them merged what do we need to break them up we just saw them not merged it was too predictable so throwing them in on five on five was great I thought it was a great move and of course but here's the thing i remember on all stars yeah it was all stars where i can't

remember what episode it was but all of a sudden we were split apart into two groups and i distinctly remember calling over to a cbs official going well wait a minute it's every man for himself is his individual play and now i'm drawing rocks to be on this random team and it was a really tough gauntlet challenge right and big tom was on my team and you know, we had to be under things and crawl. And I went, well, we're doomed, right? And we did lose. But at the same time, I was upset about that because it wasn't every man for himself.

So, but it made for interesting TV. Do you have one of the players that you really find yourself rooting for or resonating with this season? Well, I do at Sage, right? because she's hysterical. I mean, I love her eye rolls. The girl's funny. And she knows how to get in and play, but then she has to pull back

because she's going on too hard. So I think she's good. Any of yourself in her in that her story was originally like, hey, I'm not really fitting in with my first group and like I'm going to go out and then, you know, find my own people. Yeah, no, definitely.

There was a very common thread from Marqueso where I was definitely people thought I was weird. Yeah. And I did. I didn't know. I didn't know. You know what? I didn't know how to play the game because I'd never watched it. So, but I was definitely being flagrant and wild. And then I got into it and understood what was going on. But I was really, it was more about, you know, understanding the different personalities. It was hard. And I think she's doing the same thing. But slowly getting into it all. I feel like that, you know, if people did think you were weird. I don't think you're weird. Why did people get that impression of you the first

couple days? Yeah, but wait a minute. They were editing me whistling. Come get the food. I was negotiating all those shells I found. You found a bunch of stuff, right? Yeah. It's like, like, you know, okay, if we build a shelter, I'll give you the food. I mean, it was all wrong. But I was kind of pissed off. Like, we didn't have shelter. Everybody was just sitting around wondering what we're going to do. I remember the producers came to us. said you haven't made fire to boil water we have to we can't even start the show until you get some fire going so uh i was just too dominant and uh boastful and then i was humbled when they did build the fire and gave me the first drink of water yeah like i i crumbled i went oh my god what

i was being such a bitch and you waited to drink the water for me to come back like what so after that, I realized, you know, wait a minute, these people are good people and we need to get along. I feel like I don't know, or if I did know, I think I forgot. How did you get involved with Survivor? Oh, it was just a double dare from people at the office. That's all it was. Yeah. Like, I didn't even want to go. But the thing is, and I hadn't watched any shows, I think I heard about the pig that came on Australia, you know, the little piglet. and in my audition tape I totally was sarcastic saying I know you guys film this in a New Jersey studio

I know it you know it's all fake yeah that's what I said and I think I didn't get it yeah yeah I was sarcastic and I mean then all of a sudden it was I think the interview the video was due

within 48 hours we FedExed it out I threw dirt and worms into the FedEx package but I didn't even know what was going on. I was just very sarcastic and laughed a lot. So that's how I got on. Yeah. Plus how many women that were,

how many women that were 46 were applying? I think they're most of the applicants, I think, were young. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And nobody ever thought to put dirt into the envelope to send to them. That's like next level. Yeah. Well, the funny thing is,

I said I was running off to FedEx with these people from work because we were laughing about it. I thought it was all a farce, actually. I honestly didn't think it was being filmed on a desert island. So I said, pull over. We're just going to throw a dirt and let's find some worms and let's throw some shit in there. Yeah. But you know, you bring up an interesting point about being a woman who's 46, who's applying to be on the show. Because it's an issue that the show has really had a hard time with over the,

course of the running of the show of how do we have women who are of like not not these very young women they call them later days sometimes and that it's a fine line to walk and you did such a good job with it of that if you go there to be the mom like it doesn't tend to go as great and you kind of really, you know, established this archetype where you are a mom, but you weren't a mom to the people that you were there with. No, no. And the producers, I remember, you know, remember they sit you down before the game begins? I don't know if they do that anymore.

But, you know, I don't know either. I played the same, the last time with you, Kathy. Yeah, yeah. You've played Survivor more recently than me. Yeah, but they sat us down. I remember it was like 24 hours before we're out. And like, why were they doing that? But we all sat there.

And I remember the producers were there, the associate producers, and all the cameramen. I think it was to intimidate us to see if we were going to quit before we started. And they definitely said, well, you know, you're going to be the mom. And I went, I don't think so. So when I got out there and then later, when the show is over, they said, yeah, you weren't the mom. We had that all wrong. I went, yeah, I wasn't the mom. Although I really did care for a lot of people, you know, because even, you know, there were some things that happened.

And I was trying to help people out, especially I went to them privately a lot of the times to say, you know, I think you're getting voted out because I just didn't want them to be totally embarrassed. Yeah. But that's not a mom. That's more like a friend. Yeah. You're going to give it to them straight. Yeah. Yeah.

you're not a backstamper no but i wish i was really oh god yeah yeah i should have been a backstabber on all-stars i should have nailed it yeah why who would you have backstabbed oh my god i'm trying to think um i can't you know i'm not going to be able to recall that really fast but i remember distinctly when i was getting towards the end you know and rob and amber would just you know they didn't give a care they didn't care and uh i went oh man i should have been more lethal Yeah. And I remember going for a long walk past where I was supposed to walk and I went, oh, man, I blew it. I should have been, I should have been more nasty.

You know, the thing for us is just to give some grace to us as the people who played on the All-Stars that nobody had ever played before with people you knew. Like, it was everybody was strangers and they had never been, like, I think even any of these other shows where people were playing the game. with people you already knew. It was weird. Yeah. It was weird. It didn't work. And I wish it had worked, but it didn't because there were relationships that had been established.

And you can tell they were working together, even to the bitter end, right? So it was just different. And I even know Jeff doesn't like that series. Yeah. So it's just, it's not half as much fun as playing with strangers. Now, when you went to go to the All-Stars, You traveled with the people that were on your tribe, right? What do you mean?

Oh, yeah. To get there? Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All the mogo, mogos. And did you have any inkling while you, that was happening that those were going to be the people that you was your actual tribe in the game?

No. Yeah. No, I didn't know. Why? Did you? No, I didn't. And I had, like, wondered, like, did other people figure this out? Because it really was so weird that you were with these people for, like, oh,

week and then the game started and you were still with these people. No, I know. It was very unusual. It wasn't. Why did they do it like that? I don't know, but the mental dynamic was totally different. It just was totally different on the strategy because you were wrestling with, you know, playing the game and knowing the people and it was a bit exasperating after a while, right?

And the other thing, the other thing, too, on All-Stars, I remember. Alex and I, you know, we were out foraging for food. And I think we looked off into the distance and saw it was far away, but you can make it out that somebody was grilling on a barbecue. And I went, do you see somebody grilling on a barbecue over there? So I remember on Marquesa, it was like, man, you were in that valley. And, you know, you just felt like nobody was around. I think that helps for making you feel like a little bit more desperate.

Yeah. So I'd love to know from you about some players that you felt have been some of your other standout, not necessarily from this season, but like over the years. Are there any people that you really is like keeping up with this have been big fans of? Oh, you know, I got to tell you.

I just think anybody that gets on the show and can get towards the final six, you know, are rock stars because it's hard. So, you know, nobody really stands out. But, I mean, if we went through the roster of people from each season, I went, oh, yeah, yeah, they were pretty good. Oh, yeah, they were really devils. But, yeah, no, nobody, you know, nobody like, oh, my God, they were so good. I think Stephanie was great.

But, you know, everybody was. Stephanie LaGrosa? Yeah, yeah. And then I love some of the, oh, I'm not going to remember. She's playing in Survivor 50. And she was totally naive about it. the game. I'm just not going to reimburs. Okay, that's fine. You mentioned Survivor 50, which is coming back and big season and they have 24 people that are coming back. What are

your thoughts on what they did for Survivor 50? Yeah, yeah. I thought it was a little dull. Yeah. I really did. I thought they should definitely bring some incredible players from further back. Yeah. So, yeah, what's a percentage of players from Survivor 40 forward? I mean, I think it's almost... Half and half, yeah. Half and half, right? Yeah.

I think they definitely should have gone further back. And I don't mean us old folks, but, you know, there are definitely people that are probably in their late 40s and 50s that should be on that roster. Yeah. So I was disappointed. Yeah, I didn't think that they necessarily nailed it in terms of what they did, where, you know, they had, they had like,

an embarrassment of riches to be able to go back from from 750 people and so there were so many people that I think you would have loved to have seen them maybe one more time like you're not going to bring back some of these other people randomly in Survivor 52 yeah no it definitely was I thought it was a bit dull and everybody around me well you know in Vermont and anybody that's emailing me is is disappointed by it I haven't had anybody like like it's pumped up yeah i'm sure people will be excited when it comes on that they that they got it but i really do feel like that you know the first time around that they did the all stars that they like it was almost like okay they they pretty much got everybody anybody wanted

yeah they did yeah and it was good so i don't know why they didn't go back further i don't understand that the only thing i can think of is for ratings right and did well people really remember what's the percentage of viewers that are going to remember people you know pre i don't know 20 or 15 we don't need people from survivor 48 for ratings yeah i mean like let's i think it is ratings though they want people that you know people are going to remember especially what's the demographic are they going after i think i think i read briefly that they really had to switch things up to try to get more younger viewers right so with younger viewers You get better advertisements for younger stuff.

No? Listen, maybe that's possible. I don't know, but I don't really get the sense that that's the case because it's like the people who were watching the show a year ago, they're still watching the show. They didn't like, okay, I've seen Survivor 48, that's it. I don't need to see anymore. But if you bring back people from when 30 million people were watching the show, 20 million people were watching the show, if you were like, oh, I'll come back.

Oh, I didn't know. This person was back. Okay, no. Okay, I get it. I agree with you because there were more viewers, right? So you can capture a bigger audience. What I find amazing is even in our little state with low population, I was in the middle of nowhere getting a sandwich and this girl screamed out that it was me. And I went, oh, but the girl was only 23 years old. I said, how are you watching my, she goes, oh, we're watching all the old series because we think it's more fun. It's better edited. People love the old stuff. I thought the editing is boring

But people are watching the old stuff Yeah I mean Kathy isn't that so weird about how You know because you went and you played And then you run the All Stars and you played And then it was kind of like All right well if you if you missed it you missed it It wasn't really like that

People would come up three years later And be like oh yeah I just watch your season But now people are watching all these shows For the first time Yeah yeah I find it fascinating And they're going in and watching our old shows. Like, it's happened to me multiple times. I went, huh. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Don't look now, but the holidays are right around the corner. And if your place isn't

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Caddleyce that I've been denier who energize so much. It's the ensemble. The form of standard and mini, regrouped, hello, Ben. And the embellage, too beau, who is practically pre to donate. And I know that I'd I'd like they're going to offer them.

But I guard the Summer Fridays and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. I'm, The Most Beaux of Cades, Cadotodeworthes, Rare Beauty, Way, Cifora collection, and other part of Vite. Vite. Procurre you, these formats, standard and mini, regrouped for a better quality of price. On link, cifora.a or in magazine. Has there been any different interpretation of you or your character? And if you're like, when younger people are coming to you, does it still hit exactly the same for them

as it did for people in the real time? Yeah, it did. You know, the other one that was getting dumped on. The woman that was a bit crazy. But then she wasn't crazy. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of identification to it. And, you know, when I get an email or somebody mails me something from Poland,

the show must have been airing again somewhere over in Eastern Europe. Yeah. Because I was getting, you know, like you probably get, you know, the photograph of ourselves, you know, there's two bucks. the envelope to mail it back sign and you know and then the lovely note is like god you should have won you you know you you know it's just we watched your character develop so uh you know it's the same thing yeah nothing different but there's definitely i think sometimes something you know on a podcast or whatnot that uh they're you know relating me to some other cast of

characters like caroline that was a bit you know nutty uh oh yeah that was kathy in the beginning so yeah you didn't like that comparison no yeah i know i was nutty but i didn't stay nutty and it wasn't nutty as much as uh just i was way too strong you know it was coming on too strong yeah i had to back pedal yeah so in survivor 50 there's a couple people that are there that you had spent some time with in your survivor career colby is going to be back Can you believe that? I know. No, I was surprised by that.

But then again, he's buds with Jeff. Right? I don't know. I had heard that he was buds with Jeff. And then I thought that maybe there was like a falling out. Oh, okay. Oh, you know, I just think the producers and Jeff love Colby, which is fine. Colby's awesome.

Yeah. I thought it was different that Jenna was coming back. Yes. Okay. What's that all about? Well, I think they like the idea of somebody from. the first season and i guess because she's still young i don't know i didn't i don't know i thought that was an unusual pick when you think of everybody between survivor one you know borneo for the

next eight seasons no offense jena yeah at the same time yeah did you get along with her in the all stars not particularly yeah you know i think she was she's another strong-willed person no she is definitely and she was working it with rob yeah you know with a little you know nudgy nudgy so yeah but she was definitely working it with rob and you know kind of discounted who i was so yeah i didn't give her too much attention yeah um trying to think if there's anybody else that no nobody else i think that you had played with um what about other people you might have run into over the years is there anybody else from 50 that you have encountered i haven't but i did i thought i thought i saw something that rob and amber were going to play no um so i think that there was

a story that rob uh got called by jeff and and and he said uh you know i think i'm i'm good and uh didn't want to do it but have you've uh been keeping up with our mutual friends career oh yes he's everywhere he's bigger than ever cabby but also also the gambling thing right what oh my god yeah poker gambling is such a big deal yes yeah yeah i haven't been doing a lot of keeping up but i do see the poker thing and i he's into it he loves it and his girls his daughters are incredibly cute yeah i mean he's got a great little family going for sure um did you keep up with when he was on the Traders? I didn't.

I heard about it, but I haven't, I never watched it. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't watched that show yet. I know that's like, what? You haven't watched Traders. I haven't, no, I haven't. You should check out the next one.

Yeah, no, I will. It comes on in January. Yeah. And then did he go far in the game? I can't remember what I read. I went to like the middle, but he had a big impact. Yeah. Yeah. Of course he would.

He was really, you know, at the height of his powers. Yeah. Okay, I gotta watch it Yeah I bet he was good He was good and he was in a good spot And then yeah he's been like Having like such a resurgence

Like so many people like Discovered him and they used to go back To the they would show the old videos And say like wait hold on He used to be so hot They put many videos That's what I've been seeing And I don't know if Rob's listening to this

But man don't we all age And yeah Remember, he was such a hot dude on Marquesa, man. Whoa. When you guys had the pizza party and how many cores light? Oh, my God. I mean, we were chugging him in the pizza. Yeah, he was delightful.

But it was. We had a good time on that when we got the pizza. It was, you know, God, that seems like seven lifetimes ago. But, you know, we enjoyed ourselves on that show. Yeah. You know, I had seen that, speaking of TikToks, that you are a bit of a TikTok maker? Yeah, well, no, I have this friend of mine who does, wait,

I have a friend of mine that does my social media for me. Yes. Because I have no time. I'm too busy with real estate. So we have, and we've had a couple of views, like 120,000 views on one TikTok about, I was talking about why I live in Vermont. But, and of course, whenever I do a little TikTok about Survivor, of course, we get a lot of views. Yeah.

But the TikTok is just kind of an offshoot of Instagram just to help my business out. But we do have fun with it. But you're good at it because you're a good storyteller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're working it. It's fun. And, you know, I just, you know, I don't hold back, as you know. Yeah.

Yeah. And so when I talk about Vermont, real estate survivor players, you know, I just put it out there. Yeah. How is your real estate business? going how are how are things yeah no real estate's good yeah and i i really love who i work with i might you know i have this adorable young nurse who's never bought anything you know shaking in her boots yeah and uh you know sell her an adorable little house to somebody that just made a bundle of money developing an algorithm for ai and is spending five million dollars on a house and only age 30 so it's just

It's a fascinating business, especially, I think maybe where we are, because we are just like a little nucleus of a city here, and we attract a cross-section of people. I get to have a cross-section of society buying homes. And I love their stories because it's fascinating, you know, what they're doing. And, you know, for jobs and what their plans are. I mean, it's really amazing little community that I live in, so it's fun. Do you ever have people reach out to you and they're, like, pretending to be interested in a house, but they really just want to meet you? Oh, no, I don't have that.

But you know, what's really funny is, you know, Tammy and I would talk about this. It's about dropping the survivor bomb. Yeah. So, you know, like just recently, I was walking this 130 acres with these people that really love this land. and it's gorgeous and, you know, I was pushing, you know, trees out of the way because we were kind of bushwhacking. And they went, wow, Kathy, you don't have to do that for us. I went, oh, I got used to it on Survivor. And they went, what? And so what I love is when I dropped the Survivor bomb, like these people in the middle of 130 acres just stopped. And they went, what? You were on Survivor?

And, you know, they go, wow, okay, wait, I think I watched that season. I'm not sure, but I'm going to go back. I couldn't get them to move for like 10 to 15 minutes because they were asking me 100 questions. So when I dropped the Survivor bomb, as I call it, people go, wait a minute, really? And it's so entertaining. I'm sure you do the same. It's definitely a weird thing to bring. I almost never will bring it up. If anything, sometimes my wife will bring it up in conversation.

Like, oh, did you know he was on Survivor? but I find that it really ends up really sort of like taking unless somebody is a fan and I have no problem talking about you know me I if somebody's a fan of the show I have no problem talking about it but I feel like when somebody doesn't really know a lot about the show it doesn't really know what it is I think it makes everything so much more weird and it's such a hard thing to now like it's just you drop this the you know thing in the punch bowl and now it's Well, the thing is, I agree with you, though. I do agree with you.

The only time, I don't do it often, but when I do do it, it's because I've gotten relatively close to the client. Yeah. And then I just mention it. And it really does revolve around something that we're doing or talking about, maybe negotiations or something. But I love it when they go, what? It's really entertaining.

It's entertaining. And then it's entertaining that some people haven't even watched. it, but they've heard of the show, right? Yeah. So then they go home and they watch the show and then all of a sudden I'm getting texts galore. Yeah. And then you also, I know you have the survivor tattoo. Do people ever spot that?

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I go, oh, yeah. Well, you know, we all got it. They got the turtle. And then they said, everybody did?

I said, yeah. Even Pascal, there's a circuit judge. But I think it has, he has it on his lower back somewhere. A lower back tattoo. for Pascole. I think it's on his ass. And then Naliyah had to get one too where you can't see him being a Mormon.

So I think Naliyah, where did you get yours? Because you're probably listening to us. I think she got it on the top of her shoulder. Okay. So we all got these little turtle tattoos, which means friends forever. Friends forever. In Marquesa terminology for tattoos.

Yeah. So one of the people that really got a lot of buzz going into Survivor 50 was that Sean was going to come back for Survivor 50. And from what I understand, I think he did, they did talk to him for whatever reason, it didn't work out.

How do you think that that would have gone for Sean to come out? I think it would have been great. Sean is, he would bring that humor, right? And snarky shit, right? And plus he's athletic, even though he's probably older.

I think he would have been a really good one. to bring back. But I can see maybe he didn't want to do it, right? Because maybe it got old. But Sean would be so fun. Damn, that guy was great. And I remember even dancing with him at the, you know, remember they had these huge parties. Sure.

They don't do that anymore. No. Yeah. Okay. So all the contestants that didn't get the CBS parties, you lost out. It was so much fun. They were so, I mean, even by the time I got to, you know, go to one, it was still a big deal. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember, I think CBS, we were in a four-level club in New York City that we just took over. And Sean and I were dancing like, I think, until three in the morning. The guy's great. Well, Kathy, I think that's something that might be missed on the new era contestants is that the older era contestants could really hang. Yeah, I agree. They really knew how to part. And they weren't kids, right?

No. People would, they would have these parties and they would be crazy. Oh, my God. Like, crazy. Like, I remember even in the cab ride between, you know, remember they, in Marquesa, they built that Tiki hut, right, in Central Park. Yeah. Right?

Do you know that my mother sat next to Donald Trump? So I, you know, I don't like to get too political on the show, but I happen, I know that he owned that skating rink and that he was there that night. I know there's, like, famous. some stories of like, oh, that's the night Mark Burnett met Donald Trump. That's so funny. And so my mother's sitting next to Trump. And the other thing that CBS did, which I thought was hysterical, is they put my whole family in the front row because everybody thought I was going to win, right?

They totally spoofed everybody. But then even taking a cab ride over to that club, I mean, we were hanging out of the cab. I think my entire body was hanging out of a window. Woo! I mean, we partied. Yeah. Yep. So that night also famously, Rosie hosted the Survivor Marquesas finale and it was such a big deal.

It's the thing that Rosie really took a liking to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was great. We bonded somewhat in that brief interview. I think it was like 45 minutes. But that's because, you know, we're a woman and I got, I got, you know, gunked at the end. So she was great. And then winning the car, it was a big deal back then.

You know, all the pieces and parts of the marketing that CBS would do, it was fun. It was exciting. I think now, you know, the fact that they announced the votes at the aisle and everybody just flies home, you know, I liked what they did back then. It was exciting. Yeah. I think that I understand the reasons why they had to do it with COVID, but, you know, I don't like that when they start saying, no, no, it's better that.

we do it this way. It's better because that we get all the like real time reactions from everybody. Yeah. Hey, remember to you the walk what do they call it, the walk next, where you go past all the torches. The rights of passage. Okay. Why haven't they brought that back? I thought that was

terrific. They find this incredible scene. They flew us to helicopters at the top of the mountain. Yeah. Why don't they bring that back? Is it too expensive? I think it's too expensive. I think they think it's too boring. I think that they feel like really? It was one thing when the show was like really epic and everybody mattered.

But I think that they probably was a point where it's like, okay, does anybody remember like the third person who got voted out? But I hope for 50 they bring it back. Because you know what? Yeah, no funny. That is. But the thing is, I think they do remember. I think if the rights of passage was just a little shorter, it was so dramatic.

But it's cyclical of like that there were these things that they had them in the show and then they took them away. And then if they, anytime they put them back, we're like, yes, thank you. We got them. They put it back in. You guys are geniuses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We love it.

Put it back in. Yeah, I'm sure they get a ton of... Don't they have people that write in with ideas for challenges now? I'm not sure how much they take the ideas that get written in, but I'm sure at some point that they did that. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Do you still enjoy the challenges as part of the show? I do, but I... Now, I don't. It's just, you know, It's pretty atypical, right? Run the gauntlet do the puzzle. Right?

Run the gauntlet do the puzzle. Where is like flying a kite? But that was so bad. Do you know what? The producers came up to me and they went, oh my God. It took us the better part of two days to set up that challenge. Yeah. Right?

They flew us to that bizarre little islands. Was that one of the challenges? They said, okay, these people are too tired. Let's just have them fly a kite today. No, I think they thought it was going to be really big. and, you know, just a real dramatic scene. But also, remember that Marquesa wasn't supposed to be filmed on Marquesa. Yes.

So all the challenges. Jordan, yeah, because they told me later, which everybody knows now, that those challenges are packed up in, you know, metal containers over in Jordan. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. They already were over there. So they had to come up with these. And I think it was like, okay, let's have them make kites.

Yeah. It wasn't good. But I enjoyed it. So I never really thought about that. So were there not that many sort of like big build challenges in... Right. I don't think they had time. Yeah.

Honestly, you know, they didn't have time. Because nowadays, everything's parked in Fiji. Well, remember, they did do some. Like, they flew us up to that maze. I don't know why they don't bring that back. That maze challenge was exciting. Yeah, what did they do at the final four? No, no.

Oh, no. In the premurge, you did a maze, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought the maze was clever. I think people would like to watch that again. But I think they didn't have a lot of time to build stuff. So they were winging it in other venues like the kite or the stilts. Well, I know that famously the Marquesa was a very tough location.

Like one of the worst locations to actually be at for the contestants. Yeah. It was awful. And I think it's also too for production. Yeah. So, yeah, it was bad. And when they complain about how bad it is in Fiji now, do you laugh at them? Yes, because I've been to the Fiji.

You know, I helped support Ego Challenge, Mark Burnett's crazy adventure race. So I was all over that island with those teams from all over the world. Did you run the Eco Challenge? No, no, no, no. I was just supporting it. There were three of us from Marquesa that came back and we flew over there. And it was fun just to support the teams. There was a team from Vermont.

And so I went over because they were co-win-over. But, you know, Fiji was nothing. I mean, that island that we were on at Marquesa was just filthy with pig shit, you know, it was just different. Fiji's beautiful. There's, you know, it's pretty gentrified down along the coastline. Mm-hmm. And then up in the mountains, there's nothing precariously bad about it. Okay.

Well, one of the things that's very dangerous in Fiji is. the very dangerous and venomous sea crane snake. Yeah. And I think people were thinking of you this season when there was the snake bite because it's one of the most famous moments in the history of Survivor when... Isn't that just great?

John Carroll got stung by the sea urchin and only you could come to the rescue. Such a wonderful memory. I just can't get over it. that I peed on him. The thing is, let's remember, please, that Pascal tried. Yes. Yes.

But there was performance anxiety because there were cameras. Yeah. And then I definitely wanted to go behind a rock. So I dragged John behind this huge boulder. And of course, you know, CBS, they have cameras everywhere. So somehow they got it, right? But the thing is, I remember, though, John looked at me and he seriously said, Kathy, you've got to do it.

And all the other women were up in the jungle. And I went, okay, fine, let's just get it done. Yeah. But that seat, just, you know, being in Fiji with Eco Challenge, right? I mean, those teams were in the water. I was in the water a lot. And I didn't see any venomous snakes. That was really wild that that happened.

Yeah. And it was a dry bite and they still pulled them. Yeah. I don't blame them, though. God only knows what could happen to them, you know, five days in. Yeah. I mean, seriously, they said it's a dry bite, but they weren't sure. Mm-hmm.

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Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. I was looking at your old Survivor bio before we came on. And something that I don't know if I knew about you was that before you did Survivor, that you did a cross-country bicycle trip. Do I have that right?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. And the producers, I remember the producers asked me about that. Remember getting back to that last meeting on Marquesa where I was in front of everybody. And I remember one of the top producers said, did you really bike across America? And I went, yeah, are you questioning that? And he goes, no, but I'd like to do it. I said, you know what?

It was an amazing experience to bike, just get on your bike and go from coast to coast. Yeah, but what was really wonderful about it was from the American Lung Association. Yeah. So I did it in honor of my dad who died from lung disease and I raised a boatload of money. I think I raised, did I raise like $3 million? It was hard to get everybody to give me those checks. But to bike across America was really interesting because every state had a different vibe and people were different and the topography. It was really good.

Yeah. I wish everybody could do it. One of the things that I thought was always really cool. And speaking of your dad was when you're doing the final three, Hands on the Idol challenge in Marquesas. You talked about how you had that conversation with your dad. And I always thought that was really amazing that you got that experience. I know, it was.

It was definitely, you know, because I put my nose down and work hard and play hard. And, you know, I also, yeah, right. Play hard. But remember? yeah she plays hard oh zoie um yeah that was it was no no no but i remember zoi i play hard but uh you know it's an out-of-body experience if you want it to be in survivor or you're just out there without having to pay a mortgage you don't use a car you know you're really self-actualizing who you are and then all of these players are making judgment of you not always i mean just

a simple amount of people so after a while you do go into a retrospective mental state like who am i so and i did go through a transformation kind of like jerry did on their second time in or third time so and i the producers noticed that too but i remember on that challenge right just staying on those polls you know i had to reach out to somebody because it got painful after a while um and i i i thought about my dad going through his battles to stay alive and I went oh my god if he could do that I can do this Jesus so it was great though I loved reconnecting with my dad yeah it was really powerful and I know that Jeff lost his dad close to that time period so he and I both kind of talked about it at one point

yeah my dad has been gone for some time he passed away in 2011 But I recently, like, had a, like, you know, I felt like that I, like, in, you know, really, you know, reached out and, like, had a conversation with a one-sided conversation of, like, just thinking about, like, giving him a bunch of updates. And I really was, like, I was in tears. Like, I really was, like, it was a very, like, profound. experience that I had had. Yeah, it's wonderful when that happens. You reminded me of you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so lovely. It was. It was great. And it's really, it's because your mind

calms down. But you are looking inward of who you are and what these people are thinking about you. And you really want to backstab somebody to make that million bucks, you know, after you're feeding each other and you're holding each other on that show. I had a real hard time with the backstap thing, even on Marquesa and All-Stars. But I know that if I had divorced myself, because how many people told you, too, while you were playing? It's only a game, it's just a game. It's just a game.

I went, no, it's not. Hello? These are real relationships. Yeah. And no, I couldn't get anybody to agree with me, actually, on Marquesa. You know, I'd love to give your take on this, because I feel like that it's, the show in its current state, I feel like, has really. gone all in on it's about the growth of the players it's about you know the journey that they're on

and much less so about the prize and about the money and what people are willing to do you know as somebody who did get so much out of the experience do you like that as the direction of the show I really do I think it's wonderful to see how people um you know have changed or, you know, figuring things out like Savannah, right? Savannah showed her vulnerable side. If she did that a little bit more on Survivor 49, I think she would be more accepted. Yeah. But, you know, she definitely has a dramatic face about her that's negative.

So she's becoming the villain and also her moves. But, you know, really in real life, I think she should show more of a vulnerability. And there would be a different angle to. it um so i just i think the game uh and what they're doing by showing more personalities is good but they don't do enough of it there's not enough time you know like rizzo who's you know trying to be another mariano um you know they need to show a little bit more of the soft side of the kid because you know i think he's getting a bad rap when really he's probably an interesting kid but they really are you know trying to emulate you know the mariano

no godfather, dude. So I think they are doing. A Riz godfather. Yeah, Riz godfather. Do you know about the Riz, Kathy? What? Do you know about Riz? No. That's like the kids are saying.

Oh, God, of course I won't know. Yeah. What is it? It's like short for charisma. Oh, okay. Riz. Yeah, that's like he's the Riz God. It's a Riz.

Oh, God. So out of it. But that's okay. I like to be out of it. But I do like that they're showing more of that interesting side to them. You know, they're not doing a lot of it, but they are. Yeah. I wish they, the only thing, too, is I do think they don't show enough of, you know, the foraging and food situation.

So, you know, on this show, I said, how are they eating? And they're not eating anything? So I was confused by that. Are they eating enough coconut? They showed a lot on our seasons, right, about what we're doing. doing for food. Yeah. Well, did you have rice in Marquesis or no? No, I think one time. One time. But not really. Yeah. It was just on All-Stars. They make a big deal about how they don't give you any rice and now, you know, you don't

have your flint or anything like that. So it's shorter, but it's harder, they say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I can see that. I mean, I think not having a Flint fire. But on Survivor All-Stars, we didn't even have. What did we, what did we have when we got there? nothing. Nothing. Okay, wait a minute. This whole short thing, right? And even though they make it tougher with the Flint, I know, I know people don't like hearing

this, but by God, that last 12 days, right, from 26 to 38 is God awful. Yeah. God awful. I remember it. That last seven days, we were all gone seriously. We got another seven days. I mean, it's pure. Like Pascal, that they had to give him, like he had to miss tribal counsel after he got voted

out of the game. I know. I mean, that extra seven days is shit. And the other thing, too, is I'm sure it costs less to do 26 days than 30 days. Yeah, well, I'm sure that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure part of it. And I think it's fine.

They shortened it, right? But that extra seven days, people need to understand, is brutal. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where we lose that extra, like, oh, my God. I remember the producers are looking at my body going, oh, my God, Kathy. I went, I know, because I lost 42 pounds. I started getting weird looking.

Mm-hmm. I don't know about weird-looking, Kathy. No, I was weird-looking. I was starting to get weird skinny legs. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that'll happen. Yeah, I feel like that Pascal couldn't get up off the ground. No, he couldn't.

Yeah. I remember a couple times the producer said, can you guys get up? Mm-hmm. And we went, no. Can you do something today? And we went, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Should they come back? and say, listen, we have to do 26 days. Like, you know, the research shows us, like, we should have never been doing 39 in the first place. Like, 39 was, that was too dangerous. I think it was. Yeah. But I remember somebody told me, maybe the doctor.

But what they do, this is what, like, maybe I could help that they come out and they say, no, we looked at it. 26 is better. They don't say that, like, 39 was too dangerous. They say, no, no, this is actually better. that they always try to like gaslight you. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Trust us.

It's better that we do it this way. You'll like it. It is better. Oh, yeah. It's like how you trick your kids. But the thing is, they are putting it down that we're saying, well, wait a minute, we were there for 39 days, right? So, I don't know. Those were heroes that went 39 days.

Like, that's like, they don't build them like that anymore. It's just, it's way too dangerous. We can't do that. I remember, I think it was the doctor back then. I asked, why is it third? Yeah, yeah. I said, why is it 39 days? Why is it not 42 days?

Why 39? He definitely said, because your body after 40 days is going to start to have a real problem. I went, oh, great. Oh, wait. Right up until. And you know what I remember, too, getting on the jet to fly home? We were on a private jet to get to the main airport over in Tahiti. and I remember the doctor came around

and was giving us these additional meds and I went, what is this med for? Well, we found out that on the island there was definitely some cases of elephantiasis. I went, what? And there's another name for that, but it's when your legs blow up, right? And so we're all sitting there going,

holy shit. So we're popping these meds. I think I watched my legs for the next year like, oh, God. Yeah, no word about. any elephantitis from the cast of Survivor Marquesas. Blown up legs. Yes.

Anyway. Kathy, can I ask you about, do you remember when we went to Montreal together? Yes. Okay. Do you still have those photographs? I'm not sure. Let me, actually, let me look. No, you know what?

I can find them. I'm going to send them to you. Yes. And you got to show them on your podcast. Yes. Because we had, wasn't that fun? it was so much fun. Yeah, see, we did have a lot of it.

We went to the Montreal Just for Laughs comedy festival. And we, like, but for me, I feel like that the most vivid memory I have is when we went to go do the play or the, yeah, the musical production of the, the, the, the, not the walking dead, the living, the, what is it called? It was. It was the living dead. The living dead. Is that what it is?

yeah yeah and they made us up i mean we had professional makeup artists that made us look like dead people and they were it was but it was spot on yes it was broadway quality and and and you were such a sport and you and we were with she ann and but i was like i feel very much like uh like i always feel bad because i feel like that i was a crank and i didn't want to put makeup on i didn't why i didn't want to like i don't want to be a zombie i like i like i wanted to come to to the comedy festival. Like, it's not Halloween. Oh, God. I don't remember it.

Oh, good. Okay, good. Because in my mind, I'm like, oh, my God, Kathy must think, like, I'm such a drip. Oh, I don't remember that. But I do remember getting made up and going out and doing our, like, one scene. We didn't do much, but it was so hysterical to see us dressed up, like, you know, dead people. Do you remember also we got roasted by Triumph, the insult comic dog, was there? Oh, right.

Right. That's right. We got totally nailed. Yeah. It was fun. Yeah. That was a fun event. That was exciting. Way to go. Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was good. Yeah, look at us. I think we're doing great. I think so. We're hanging in there. I think we're all okay. I mean, you know. Have, are there any other like interesting experiences that you got to do from Survivor that the fans might not know about? Oh, God, you know, you know, we got, I got, you know, we went to so many different places. I got flown out to a lot of, it's not really that interesting, but, you know, town clerks and town offices flew me around the country. Town clerks, right?

Because when you're a real estate agent, you work with the town offices and stuff. And I would have to do some motivational talks to these groups of town officials. and I remember one time I think it was in St. Louis and I walked onto the stage and there must have been 2,000 people there and I went

and my schick was I wear my dirty clothes which by the way I've never watched the clothes that I had. Is that safe? I don't know. Is that okay? I just, I never wanted to wash them because they smell so bad. Yeah. So they are now

in this vacuum bag and so they don't get moldy. They should be in the Smithsonian. I haven't opened them up, but I'm sure they're disgusting. Anyway, I would go to these events to do these motivational talks because, you know, my transformation on the show,

I would talk to women's groups. And that one particular, 2,000 women, there were TV screens like up and down this ballroom. And they're, I was in my dirty clothes telling people how to stick it out one time. Yeah. Do you still do talks like that? No. Yeah. No, I don't. Once in a blue moon.

Yeah. But it was really funny when I would walk by people in my dirty clothes. They go, woo. I said, yeah, I haven't washed them. They thought it was weird, but then they said, well, that kind of a good idea. It does. It reminds me of how disgusting we were. We were, remember? Of course. Yeah, they don't even talk about that. Oh. so dirty so filthy and then it must be interesting though

that like the smell brings you back like it's probably visceral so maybe I can understand maybe you don't want to wash it no I know it sounds weird to everybody

when they're listening to this but when you do open it up you go oh my God it was just so filthy and I I distinctly remember at the end of Marquesa

how we were just commenting that we are living here with one set of clothing and you know we were so tired we just didn't care you know we didn't even i think we had an extra set of underwear we never wore them we would just go swimming and thinking that was taking care of it but that's because we got so tired but uh yeah i just did that because i wanted to remember the trashiness of how dirty we got oh yeah Kathy i remember yeah i remember yeah and i remember and I, we would just go bury ourselves in the sand, just thinking that would take the dirt off.

I remember a couple of times we were naked, burying ourselves in the sand, and there, of course, comes the Zodiac with the cameramen. And I went, there's no way I'm going to be on national television where they blur out my body. It's not happening. So I told she, I said, you know what we're going to do? we're just going to continually say F-U-C-K just keep saying it

because if we say that a hundred times while they're filming there's just no way they might think it's funny but I think the family editing at CBS will say no no can't do that so we were naked and they were filming us and we're just going

fuck-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-v-vok-v-v-vok-vvvvvok-vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv. And it worked like a charm. They said come on the camera guys because come on. I went, well, uh-oh, you guys have have to leave and they left. That's a good memory. Good tip. Yeah.

Just swear a lot. Kathy, what's next for you? What else do you still want to do? I know. Oh, God. I, you know, it's such a good question. Because I thought you're not falling down, right?

No, no, I know. It's such a good question because, you know, when you get to a certain time of your life and your business is great and family's good And you go, wow, you know, there's only one last hurrah here. So what do you want to do? I think right now I'm just concentrating on traveling and, you know, meeting people. But I am a big protester. Just, you know, I protest.

Oh, yeah. Yep. I am protesting ice. Yes. So, yep. So have you? Well, I'll tell you what happened in Vermont. I got to have credits for this because the local university of Vermont students.

I wouldn't think that there would be a lot of ice in Vermont. Or the only ice is maybe when you're snowboarding. I have to tell you the story. So these UVM students were leaving the airport like at 2.30 in the morning because the flight was delayed. And they noticed ice agents were pulling up with their masks on. And they had these poor immigrants that were picking apples in upstate New York. And pulling them through the airport in the middle of night when TSA wasn't opened. And the airport was just letting them flow through.

through and jumping on an American Airlines jet. So we decided to protest it. And after we protested enough and talked to the airport commission, they shut it down. And we were very proud of ourselves that we shut that down because our airport gets federal funding. But we're still getting funded and the ICE agents are gone. Wow. Yeah.

So I'm a protester. And because of what's happening in Washington, I keep thinking I should get into politics. But I won't. But I'm just protesting like crazy with a lot of fun people up here. Yeah. How did you get involved? Like when you say we, because I don't know how to get involved in something like that. See what I mean?

Okay. So everybody that's listening, just do me a favor. Just go online to the indivisible groups, right? And I wish more young people were protesting because this is going to affect your lives, right? It really is. It's going to be long lasting with the economy and everything. thing. But this group called indivisible, they have thousands of groups. In every state, there's a little indivisible group, and you can find out where the latest protests are. And you don't have to

protest ICE, but I think ICE and what they're doing in Chicago and whatnot is just awful. I mean, just so much violence. And so I found out about this indivisible group, and I found out when the next protest is. And I'm standing there protesting various items about what's happening with our government. yeah well and yet more young people need to do it they need to understand how dangerous what's happening yeah but at the same time look at you it keeps you young no it does i'm involved yeah got to be involved yep okay i will have to uh i'll text you some of the signs i made i would love to see are they funny yeah i try to make them funny especially with trump hysterical ones okay because you must be watching the comedy about Trump, the late night comedy? I see it. Oh, it's so good. Jimmy Kimmel?

Yeah. It's so good. He's spot on. Yeah. Do you text with Rosie ever? No. Okay. Because if you could reconnect with her, you'd have like a lot, probably a lot. Like a platform. Right. I don't even know where she is. No, I haven't. She might be in like Ireland. Oh, is she? Yeah. I just Googled Mark. Just to see. see what he looks like. He looks good. Mark Burnett. Yeah, he's 64. I thought he was older. Yeah. I think he's like some sort of like special ambassador to like the UK. Oh, he is. Yes. Yes. I read that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But they're all looking good. 64. Of course, being in Hollywood at 64, you can get taken care of. Okay. Yeah, but they look good. Jeff looks good. Don't you think Jeff looks good? I think Jeff looks good. Yeah. Yeah. And he loves Survivor as much as ever.

he's really yeah he's very good at first i thought he was getting bored with it at one point i think he was getting bored with at one point i think he was like after all stars like three or four seasons after but then he he brought it back so it's good yeah i think he was bored as the host of survivor i think that he like really gets very fulfilled from doing all of the like the creative of survivor yeah and also some of the interesting people that do hit it right but he definitely plays favorites you think so oh yeah

yeah who are some of his favorites oh yeah I think right now you know he loves Stephen I think he's into Stephen I think he was into Nate yes yeah

the old guy the older guy didn't make it wasn't playing hard enough lovely man yeah he seemed like that he just wanted to keep things like nice and calm and didn't want things to get too crazy can't do

that yeah not in this no you can't do it you gotta work it yeah right so but i you can just tell you know i can tell the way his pitch of his voice when he asks questions like i think i think he likes the young sophy sophy b but then sophy b is so she seems humble her head's always down maybe that's because she's starving she's had a hard time she's had a hard time but her heads down as a person you know when you put your head down that means you're humbled yeah and And I like that about her. Do you do a lot of body language reads? Yeah, well, I got, I learned that to go on All-Stars.

I had this woman that taught me about body language. Yeah. Not that it helped me, but she was just telling me about when people do things with their bodies, what you can, you know, expect. Was there ever a time when it gave you a piece of information? Yeah, it did. Yeah. I mean, I think Jerry definitely showed who she was by her body language.

A lot of people do. I mean, Boston Rob did. You know, he was confident. His shoulders were back all the time. Chest puffed out. Calm. Calm body. Yeah.

Burrowed. Right. Burrowed eyebrows. Yeah. Well, Kathy, catching up with you is so much fun. or anything else you want to tell people to check out? Oh, no. I think it's fine.

It was just great to recap. It's always fun to recap what we went through, isn't it? I mean, I do it all the time. So I just don't always get the chance to talk to too many people that actually were there when I was there. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's wonderful that we had that experience. I mean, when I go back and I think about it on the,

All-Stars. I mean, we're so young and, you know, basically naive, but we thought we had our act together. And it was just, it was a great experience. It was so much fun to go through, uh, experimenting with who we were and then trying to win at the same time, but then being ourselves. And then being on a major television production, it was fascinating. Yeah. It really was. I'm so glad to talk to you. You look great. Oh, thank you, Kathy. I appreciate it. Yeah. And I love. I love that you have two boys and you're enjoying life. Where to go. Yes.

How's Patrick? He's great. He's hysterical. Yeah. He has three girls and they're all playing elite hockey. They're really great. They're hockey stars. So I'm driving all over the place to Syracuse, New York and to Boston.

And they're just playing really good hockey. And Patrick's hysterical. He's just a really funny boy. You would like him. Yeah. all right well kathy where could people keep up with you i know well i mean my instagram is really about real estate i should probably do more instagramming about what i'm doing yeah but i do have an i have an instagram account it's the o'brien o'connell group you can find me yeah and um who's o'cone

oh yeah well that was my uh that's patrick's name so i was originally married to an o'connell yes so that was so patrick's name is o'connell okay so you do the real estate your business is with is with your son. Oh, yeah. No, I forgot to say that. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Yeah, he's been with me for 10 years now. Oh, that's awesome. He's good. Yeah, no, he's really fun. He's fun. He's made. And to be able to have your son working with you, I mean, it's really a joy. It's, it's a plus.

Yeah. That is so interesting because I feel like, you know, there's so many, like, you know, father's son businesses, but I think that's so rare to hear about of a mother's son business. Mother son. Well, there are definitely times when it's like, but that's okay, you know, we figure it out. Yeah. Well, that's really cool. That must be really, really fun that you get to do that. It is. It is. It's lovely. It's been, I mean, totally. I am so glad that you contacted me because it's been joyful, reminiscing. Yeah.

And it's, I mean, it's so good to see you and you're smiling. I love that you smile. Thank you so much. And I really, I was thinking about this morning about how I feel like that one of the few highlights that. that I have in Survivor All-Stars is when we do the challenge where we're opening up the boxes and, you know, like you say that, you know, something along the lines of like, oh, I, you know, I know what, like, I can read you. I know what's on your mind. Maybe from the body language. That's how you knew. And, but it was just like a really fun, like, back and forth. And so I was just feeling like, you know, I would have been so thrilled to get the chance to be on the beach with you on Survivor All-Stars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, they just need to bring us home back, right? Mm-hmm. All right, one of these days. Well, anyway, Kathy, thank you so much. And Kathy, I got such a great response from people when we announced that you were coming on. So many people said they audibly gasped that when they heard you were going to be back on. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Yeah, it really is flattering. I'm humbled. Heads down. Yes. Well, you know, it's just, it is amazing that the impact that, uh, you and like these you know titans of the game have on people where you know all these years have gone by but that for whatever reason you touched people and stayed with them yeah but you know what

it is it's just like what madison did i showed people who i was i mean i was crying on the show but it was really earnest it was real so i exposed who i was and i wish more players would do that because it really is powerful. I didn't mean to do it, but I'm sure that's why people identify because I didn't want people taking advantage of me, but at the same time, you know, I was floored by the experience and I showed it. But then I wanted to be good to people, but then I wanted to play hard. So it was really a juxtaposition. I think people saw all sides of me, but in the end, you know, I was just me. And I didn't have that backstabbing capability.

I just couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Well, Kathy, thank you so much. Thanks everybody so much for listening. Take care. Have a good one. Bye. Yeah, you too. Hey, Rob here.

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