RHAP: We Know Survivor - Kellyn Bechtold: Do It Scared | Pod Friends

Episode Date: January 5, 2025

This week on Pod Friends, Kellyn Bechtold (@thekellynb) shares her journey of resilience, transformation, and connection. You may know Kellyn from Survivor: Ghost Island, but in this heartfelt interview with host Matt Scott (@MattScottGW), you’ll discover so much more about her path to self-discovery and career reinvention.

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New Year, New You. This year, it's more you on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Gemini's because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want.

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Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. This episode is brought to you by RBC Student Banking. Here's an RBC student offer that turns a feel-good moment into a feel-great moment. Students, get $100 when you open a no-monthly fee RBC Advantage Banking account and we'll give another $100 to a charity of your choice. This great perk and more only at RBC. Visit rbc.com slash get 100, give 100. Conditions apply. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines.

Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. All right, Kellen, why should people listen to this episode of Pod Friends featuring you? Hey, everybody, this is Kellen. Everyone should. Who is interested? No one should do anything. Anyone who wants to listen could listen to the idea that matt is an

incredible container creator and space holder for the people that matt interviews so this is every conversation is a listen because of that this one in particular is for people who just have an inkling that saying yes to adventure and saying yes to something sight unseen that is exciting and wonders what it's like to take steps to get there might enjoy this conversation. Thanks. No interviews, just having conversations PodFriends, PodFriends So sit back and prepare for captivation Hello everyone and welcome to a new season of Podfriends. Happy New Year. My name is Matt Scott and I am so thrilled to be here with you, to be joined by you really, for a new season of Podfriends.

While there's so much that I want to tell you about in this intro, including how you could leave a voicemail, including a cameo in this episode, including some of the upcoming episodes of PodFriends, and including a patron exclusive called 15 Minutes with Friends, which you should check out. If you do want to skip ahead to the interview directly, just skip ahead about seven minutes. I'm just so thankful for all of you and for being part of the evolution of Podfriends. I started this a few years ago at this point, which is so hard to believe. And so many conversations later, not only on the podcast, but at RHAP live shows to date.

This show means so much to me. You all mean so much to me. And as we start out the year, I want to ask you, how are you doing? I'm listening. I'm here. I'm sure I'll learn more about it at some of the RHAP live shows coming up this year. And we're doing only a few things differently. Same old pod friends, different life, new guests this season.

Going to be really thrilling. And I could share already, we have a couple of really exciting guests lined up. Even more coming, more interviews that I need to record. But I'll tell you about two of them. One of them, speaking of RHAP live shows, behind the scenes, getting to know the people behind the mic. Easy for me to say is the one and only sam moore executive producer of rhap is gonna be on the show listen to that and just to keep going a bit another person and you'll also see her this season uh this this winter on the traders season three

the one and only carolyn wieger of survivor 44 so i'm really excited for the conversations coming up so many more that i think you'll be really thrilled to hear and they go deep they go places but i i want to talk about kellen for a second because kellen is such a great person to start this year off with to start pod friends off with because there's this idea this theme of doing it scared that comes up time and time and time again in this conversation so you not only learn about kellen's story of course beyond survivor goes to islands but you hear so much about her journey you hear me gasp a number. But you hear so much about her journey. You hear me gasp a number of times.

You hear about her starting the Road to Reality podcast here on RHAP, which I hope you'll check out. And that was one reason I wanted Kellen to be the season premiere interviewer to interviewer. Because a few years ago, I interviewed Taryn Armstrong with The Taryn Show, interviewing people here on the RHAP network before I was doing it. And it's so cool to talk with Kellen and to dive in with her and just to hear about ways that she's done

it scared to do, to live her journey, you know, to, to hear everything that she's been through in life, the ups and the downs and her evolution, which I think is so phenomenal. We all evolve. I want to thank you all for being part of my evolution. And it's amazing that we get to hear Kellen's evolution a bit. So it's a new year and we're also doing new things on the podcast. One thing I want to encourage you to do is to check out the Patreon for RHAP, robhiswebsite.com slash Patreon because for the first time, we're premiering a new segment

on PodFriends for PodFriends called 15 Minutes with Friends. And it's an opportunity for you to listen to just an extended 15-minute conversation rapid-fire with me and the guest. Trying

this out with a few guests curious to hear your thoughts and you could check it out over on patreon for rob his podcast again rob his website.com slash patreon or i believe you could go to patreon.com slash rhap and subscribe this should be available even on the free tier patreon. So you don't even need to pay, but hopefully you do pay and support the folks on this network, including me and Kellen. So, so much to get to in this conversation, but I mentioned the Patreon already.

Join that, become a patron. You get exclusive content from RHAP. You get early access to live shows and tickets for those, which I've been to most of the live shows that have happened in the last few years. Actually, I think I've been to all of them except for one in the last few years. And it's such a great opportunity to meet you all, connect with you all. And so I hope that you'll become a patron to get early access to those tickets

when those live shows are announced for 2025. And I also want to just encourage you, beginning with this episode, even before you listen to the episode if you want, to leave a voicemail. I love your voicemails. They warm my heart. They make me cry. It's really special to hear from you and to turn this into a two-way conversation, which is part of why I love the live events and meeting you all there. But you could submit a voicemail at speakpipe.com slash pod friends. That's speakpipe.com slash pod friends. And that's one way that you could let me know what you're thinking,

what pod friends means to you, your reflections on it, any episodes or conversations or talking points that have jumped out for you you could leave that about kellen's episode or a future episode or a past episode whatever it is and never hesitate to go back and listen to past episodes of pod friends because there are so many that you could check out before we get into it i just want to mention that there is a very special cameo by the one and only HGTV host, Extreme Makeover Home Edition co-host, Bryce and Wen present co-creator and Survivor Ghost Island winner, Wendell Holland, making an appearance and asking a question to Kellen.

I just love integrating something fun like that. I know you'll hear that type of thing in a couple of episodes coming up and so hope that you enjoy also hearing from wendell here but without further ado here is my conversation with kellen making her way to the podcast hailing from indiana by way of Chicago and Denver and Spain and Fiji and so many more places on her journey. She is empathetic. She is effervescent. She is exciting and empathy is her superpower.

You know her as being Navidi strong, but she's also a career counselor turned founder of The Career Coven and the host of the Road to Reality podcast here on RHAP. Please welcome the one, the only, Kellan Bechtel. We're here. We're doing it. You have your're doing it you have your coffee do you have your coffee i have my coffee i have my water we have all set cheers we are ready ready for a good conversation today i was gonna say i know this is mostly an audio medium but i appreciate your like sweater mug combination we have the sweater mug thing oh look at Oh, look at us. I'm in the green color today and you're in the yellow matchy.

Yeah, on brand, definitely. So it goes together, it works. But I am like, actually before I even get into anything else, are you a coffee, like normally a coffee person? I try not to drink coffee, but since it's Friday

and I'm doing a podcast, I get to have one. The people appreciate it. It's for the people. It's for the RHAP community. For everyone. Yeah. Keeping it up a notch. I love it. I have to say, though, and I don't like to date the podcast at all, just like Road to Reality. I love for it to be evergreen but i have to say it is for a friday the 13th i'm not even gonna name the month just keep it that evergreen but

kellen are you like a superstitious or i've heard you refer to yourself on road to reality as witchy and so i feel like i have to acknowledge that it's Friday the 13th I don't know if this means anything to you like you're not stepping on cracks or anything like that it's so fun um I I can go in and out of those like not stepping in on cracks thing I would say oddly and maybe this isn't my witchiness like Friday the 13th seems like good luck to me when you just reminded me it is Friday the 13th I was like oh yeah me when you just reminded me it is Friday the 13th I was like oh yeah the powerball is really high right now it is Friday the 13th I need to go buy that laundry ticket it feels more like good luck day instead of bad luck day yeah um like it's a

world in which you know if other people are running scared then I can actually be in front you know that's how that's how I feel a little bit on days like Friday the 13th. Not to like make that into something that's way deeper than it is, but I feel like that is like a deep life philosophy thing. When everyone else is terrified, hiding under their covers, like you're going for, it sounds like you're just going for it.

So yeah, yeah. I mean, that can, that tends to be a theme that you're pointing out to me that is happening right now. I'm actually posting an event in a week called Doing It Scared about like leaving corporate and starting your own thing, even though you're scared because like the right moment. It's, I'm child free by choice. But, you know, when people say to other people, people oh you'll never be ready to have kids but you know you'll just become a parent that that for me is like you'll never be ready to think that you're like the ceo of your own life but you already are so just go for it so that like kind of do being scared and doing it anyway does seem to be a bit of what's going on and friday the 13th

what better day is there to to host this conversation i mean's going on and Friday the 13th, what better day is there to host this conversation? I mean, I feel like Friday the 13th is a good day. I feel like New Year's Day would be a good day. I'm just going to say, and I'm calling my shot right now, Kellen. This, like if this conversation were a disaster, this is going to be the season premiere of Podfriends. Like the first episode coming out

within a week of the new year. No pressure. I know it's a lot of weight to it, but I feel like with that in mind, that's also a good time just to have that conversation because yeah, new beginnings could be scary. Starting things, taking leaps can be scary and yet less scary when there are people walking you through that process. Right. Yeah. And just other people who are on the journey with you. Like here we are to podcast hosts together, like on either side of the screen. And it's there's a sense of camaraderie and like we know each other. And it just when you find the people who are doing the things

that you want to be doing at the same stage you're doing them I think that might just be the key to have things go a little more smoothly and to like just hoist up your bravery a little bit with the people around you I love that and I I want to ask before like getting into just more of who you are, because I'm hoping everyone like already knows who you are. I'm sure there will be some people who are just getting to know you, of course. You know what? I can go anonymously to like Bryson Winnibin's. Like, yeah, I don't know who I am. I'm older now. I'm eight years older. You know, since I played, well, 2017 is at the right math seven years 2017 well depending on when they listen to it yeah it might sure that works too yeah so i was on the show eight years ago so i don't look the same as i did eight years ago i have different hair different i mean my whole entire life looks different my soul looks different i think than it did eight years ago so yeah I'm Kellan Beckfield I was on season 36 Ghost Island of Survivor I um am originally is that what you're

hoping for you want to go into like yeah so I'm originally from a chicken farm in Indiana I grew up in the middle this tiny tiny, tiny town in northern Indiana, out on the farm. And like, at the time, 300,000 chickens, there's a lot more now. Not on your farm. What? On our farm. What? Wait. Hold on. As a, I am from the Garden State of New Jersey, initially living in the beautiful city of Washington, D.C. I didn't realize what, hold on. I think my brain broke or my mic is, my headphones aren't working. I think everyone's with 300,000 chickens on your chicken farm. Yeah, yes, that's,'s that is correct your ears were working

how do you i don't even understand anything anymore well okay so what is it stop is the brain breaking because just like in general that there are that many chickens in one place yes yeah yeah actually there's about two or three times that now on our farm it's grown a lot since i was a little kid um my dad and my mom and now my brother have worked to build a very successful business good for them um and yeah it is so they are it's like they're in industrial they are in a big long barn that's like the length of a football field. We have quite a few of those. So it is an industrial business. It's not like we were like going out to the backyard and yeah,

we were like running around our yard. It's not like you, I'm guessing you didn't name all of them. No, I tried when I was first a little kid, you know, there would be like one, one group of them that I would really want to name but yeah you kind of grow out of that so yes industrial farming and is where I came from um I mean I feel like Indiana is just like I'm living here now actually back to Indiana I never thought I would ever be um but yeah that's where it came from small town girl small town world at the beginning yeah I mean I guess like what's been at least from the journey in terms of where you've lived you start in Indiana and then where were the different like stops on the journey back to

Indiana now yeah okay so I went to Indiana University in Bloomington. So I stayed in Bloomington, but I mean, in Indiana, but that was the town I grew up in was about five, 6,000 people. And then Indiana University, the college itself has like 40,000 students or something. So I went to a school that had do the math that many times more people in it than my whole town growing up. I was there for three and a half years I graduated early which is like the silliest thing I ever did was cut myself short of an extra semester of being in college I loved being there it seems like a good idea at the at the time I'm I'm sure especially because like college is often expensive depending on where

you go and all the other but you you know, I, I mean, it sounds like you wish you could have spent a little bit more time there. Yeah, I think, well, I think it's just, I ended up actually getting an internship on Sanibel Island in Florida and I went and lived on the Ding Darling Wildlife Refuge and I worked for the Sanibel Captiva Conservation Foundation. And I was essentially a landscaper. I was an environmental management major

and undergrad. And I thought I wanted to be an environmental lawyer like Aaron Brockovich. Without tits is what I always said was my dream. Because I still don't have those. And I went,

so it was kind of like the only like environmental type thing I could, I could really find at the time internship. I graduated in December of 2008, which young folks like you don't even remember that that was the. Oh my gosh. How old do you think I am? I remember I, I remember I was, I was, uh, I think a junior in, so I'm 32. I think I was like a junior in high school when that happened. I didn't have to deal with like the, actually, I'm not going to split.

I'm going to let you continue your story. But for the even younger folks, watch me, watch me distancing myself from them. Spoiler alert. There were some things that happened in our economy. Yeah, that meant that I can remember the people a year older than me were getting like flown to Texas and flown to California for interviews. Like this is what the world was like when I was a sophomore in college. The juniors ahead of me were getting flown out for interviews to all these places, banks and all this stuff. And then by the time I graduated in 2008, everything was

shutting down. The crash had happened and places were not hiring. And so I just was like, I'm going to go get experience. I went to Sanibel Island. I'm like, what else is there to do other than go live on an island for a while? It was like in a raised trailer, like an old kind of like what you would see at a construction site. You know, they have like this temporary, but it was raised in the jungle. I mean, there were snakes in my kitchen when I came home for lunch. There were my roommate Jackie at the time we got woken up in the middle of the night. She was screaming because a rat had crawled into her

bed and up her shirt. This was my first adventure in living on an island. I actually talked about this experience in my audition video saying I had an island living experience. What else could you possibly need?

So I went and did that landscaping. I worked at a grocery store in the evening and it was so fun. I was making no money and having an absolute blast. I went to Europe for the first time. I saved up all of that money while I was there for those six months,

my internship and working 80 hours a week. I got paid $200 a week for my internship. And then I was making whatever, you know, $8 an hour at the grocery store. I loved working at the grocery store. One of my favorite jobs ever. And this is crazy. I don't even know why I'm telling you this part, but I, there was a local bank like the Sanibel Island bank. I don't even know I'm telling this part, but I, there was a local bank,

like the Sanibel Island bank. I won't say which one. And the CEO of the bank was like, obviously I'm sure he donated money to the, the foundation that I was volunteering for. And so he was around and like, I was telling him, I guess I wanted to save up money i was going to go

to europe this is what i was doing he called me into his office one day and was like i have a i know i know uh-oh right and so i look back on it i'm like was this an uh-oh moment he was like i will loan you i believe in you i know how hard you're working you are working 40 hours a week, landscaping all day in the hot Florida sun and then going and working. I was working 32 hours a week on top of it at the grocery store. And I was just like, I don't know. This is, I think I've saved like $3,800 to go to Europe. He's like, you're going to need, you're going to need more money than that. I will loan you $5,000 from the bank with a 0% interest loan, as long as you pay it back within a year. Wow. And I was like, what? Okay. And so I took it.

I took the loan. I went to Europe. I moved back home with my parents back in Northern Indiana because I had then spent every single dollar. Yeah. And I got then spent every single dollar. And I got a job at my local bar and grill, which I always worked at over the summers and still, you know, it's closed down now, but loved it all growing up.

What was the name of that place? It was called, it was called the main view. Ooh. On main street. I feel like there will be people listening who have been to the main view on main street where you grew up so i'm just just asking yeah i don't know i don't know if anyone around in my like human world i think they might all be tired of tired of hearing all this stuff but if any of you are listening i love you all um so I will speed up that I don't know why I went down that rabbit hole but I'm just saying like there will be angels in in the world that

like see something in you and um sometimes it's okay to ask for help or to take the help when it is presented to you and this is one of those times where this guy, which like you said, oh, and sometimes I think like, what was the motivation there? But it really set me off on this path. And maybe he did just see something in me that was like, this girl will take an adventure and I trust her to pay me back. And I did. I paid it all back. I didn't pay $1 of interest on that money. And I had the time of my life in Europe. I had totally still a great time, even though I had to move back in with my parents. And then I went to Chicago. I was in Chicago for seven years, got on Survivor at the end of that.

When I got back from Survivor, I had, I had this inkling before I went I should just get rid of my apartment um but I kept it and then when I got back from Fiji and I like walked into that apartment I was like I don't I can't live here anymore but I don't know where I want to live wow long story we will skip I ended up in Denver for five years um went to Europe or well actually i went to east asia in january of 2020 covid broke out i took a flight to madrid met my husband there right and um now he's my husband he wasn't my husband at the time i met him on bubble and uh eventually it was just too much to have denver My parents are in Northern Indiana. His dad is in Atlanta, Georgia. His mom is in Spain.

He has a place in Spain. So it was just like Denver, Indiana, Atlanta, and Spain. It was four spots. We couldn't keep up with that. And so I ended up just buying a house back in my small town. So then back to Indiana and Spain back and forth. And now my husband is in a pilot school in Indianapolis. And so we are parked here while he's learning to be a commercial pilot for the next few years.

So after all of that, I counted the other day. If I've been in a spot for more than 30 days, I counted it as a move. And I had moved 38 times from the time I was 18. Um, so I've been around. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. And I, it, it's interesting. Like all this is interesting to me on a lot of levels. I feel like I have some follow-up questions within what you mentioned, but even just the, not everyone moves that often. Not everyone, and I'm assuming that means you have to be adaptable to different places and environments and homes and circumstances. But then also, I don't know, when you move that often, aren't you just ready for the next?

Do you even unpack? Have you started to unpack by now like hopefully you're able to settle in a little bit more yeah so I I um yeah so many things right so many times you don't unpack so a lot of the times

I was like in an Airbnb like for a four week stint or a six week stint where you're just living out of suitcase um it has been yet for here so in our apartment here I kind of really quickly was craving for the first time like I want to have a place where my toothbrush goes that's on the sink as opposed to like just in my makeup traveling bags um and not that I haven't had that over the years somewhat but a lot of moving and so I have entered into this I think new stage of my life where I'm 38 I just turned 38 um Adrian my husband is in school and we know we're going to be here for three years and it really

has provided me a ton of relief to like return to myself I've started writing I've just landed it's which is funny since my husband's like literally taking flight and then now I'm the one that's landing um but for now and it's a little break. And I think why I can do that is because he's going to be a pilot. And then we get to fly all over as a family member and stuff. So it feels like I'm in the eye of this, where my life will probably go back to swirling all over the place. And movement is really, really nice to unpack. As you say, I still have any art on the walls yet I'm not sure about that I've

never done that part before right um but we are fully unpacked yeah I will say to that point about art on the walls like I very specifically like in my apartment like I I want more pictures on the walls or in places I don don't know, like the right configuration. And then I also think about how there are so many different pictures. And then when it comes to art, so many different pieces of art you could have. Like it's almost overwhelming to think about, but you have time. You have time to like settle in and do that and figure that out, which is nice, right? Yeah. How long have you lived where you live?

Oh my gosh. I have been here for, I think it's been since 2018, May 2018, I moved here and it's been great. Like I'm settling, obviously, but I just, I realized like I am so, I travel, I travel a good amount for work and in life and I'm just places. But I think that the thing I realized is that I just want like more faces immediately there, like around me and people I admire and love. But also it feels like there's so many different pictures and people and things. And I kind of don't, I don't know. Like it feels weird to me to have pictures of myself on my walls to be like, yeah, that's me.

Because it's just like me looking at it for the most part, right? That's me looking really cool in that picture. So I don't know. Are you a picture? I love this conversation, by the way. Yeah, it all connects. Are you a picture person as you settle in? as you settle in so it's so I just love that you're calling this specific thing out because there are

you know everything's so digital now as we sound like old great old grannies to actually go through your pictures and just pick like three from each year that just make you feel whatever you want your house to be like feel relaxed feel joy feel happiness feel connected whatever and to actually go to this is how i do it this is my old lady way like send it to cbs online and go pick it up at cbs i'm sure there's another way to do it now um and have those actual to like open it up and feel it in your hands and look at it and put it in a frame and have it sitting there it really is an honoring i think of moments in your life and it it does help to have pictures i have um

actually rob's oh my gosh what you a pic, like Rob's headshot? No, I have, I have Rob's sister, you know, staring at me at all times. Um, no, he got, I'm sure from one of his sponsors got this, um, which is so beautiful. Like with the light shining through the window in the back. Is that a canvas print? Yeah. It's a canvas thing. Uh, it's a, for the people who are just listening, it's a canvas thing. It's for the people who are just listening.

It's a picture of the original Navidi tribe, minus a couple of people. I'm going to make you full screen for the viewers for a second. Oh, here we are. I note that Chris Noble is missing. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Two people are missing. And so Rob sent this to me.

I have this sitting up above my desk and it just brings me so much joy. So I do love having pictures around and I do love having pictures around and you, that is reminding me that's a great way to get some art on the walls. Also, I love having pictures of myself. I know, I feel like I would enjoy it but it would change my personality completely like me looking at myself on the walls would just

look at that moment but I do think it's important because especially when it comes to I like the idea of like doing it scared and just like being brave and embracing it. And I have a little tattoo on my wrist that says courage as one, as a reminder. And it's, it's so interesting because, you know, I do think we have to be reminded of our, like, I, I know someone who used to call those or who does call those like bad-ass moments, like bad-ass moments of ourselves when we've shined the most and because it's so easy to forget all of the amazing things that we've done and who we are and yeah just to like get caught up in the day-to-day and social media and the news and everything that's happening out here

when like yeah we're out here doing things um which is I think it's good to have the reminders and I especially love and maybe you know honestly I like what you're talking about with the yeah, we're out here doing things, which is, I think it's good to have the reminders. And I especially love, and maybe, you know, honestly, I like what you're talking about with the physical images, but I also, and I really want that like for wall sake, but there are also those really cool digital frames, which are not sponsors of this podcast. So I won't mention any names unless they want to call us up right matt yeah yeah call us up we could do a double double sponsorship for anyone yeah we're we're open to that yeah we are no this is so cool but i actually i want to go back to something did you you mentioned like

looking for um environmental positions and i work at a climate change solutions non-profit leading the storytelling program which is really exciting but where is was that like a thing that was calling you up slash to ask that as a different question like what did you want to be growing up like did you have an idea of that and was was the environmental stuff part of that um thank you for your work it is so important i just read a short story by pam houston last night um about why it is literally the short i mean this is what i mean by magic and witchy and the things that happen in the world when we slow down and have connections with people so the the short story i read last night by pam houston i will give it to you to put

it in the in the show notes is about why it is important as the as we're essentially burning the world down to still stop and write poetry and to tell stories about this beautiful earth oh my gosh just lastly yeah it's i do feel like some people really attract that energy a lot more that like witchy some might say coven like energy to to their lives but no that's that's awesome and yeah I'll definitely link that in the show notes for people it's so beautiful I mean trigger warning at the beginning it is about her uh aging dog um and so that is really that is really hard I was just it's just so interesting I was up until I always could I liked being by like 9 30 10 I couldn't sleep last night I was looking at this stack of books that I got and I was like I just really feel like reading one of these short stories

I opened the book it was to this this was I don't even know if it's the first one in the book I just opened to it and read that one um and it's your job in the world it's your it's what's what you're it's what you're doing on the planet right now is storytelling around our beautiful earth. Right. Yeah. And it's, and I think what's so cool too, and it sounds like this story might be a piece of that, which is just like, for me, it's a lot of interviewing people. And especially like my work focuses on, as I always say,

like passing the mic to voices that often go unheard. So it's primarily black communities indigenous communities communities of color queer people and like all these other voices primarily women and non-binary people like featured in the work and it's yeah it's always we always learn a lot when we like share people's stories and highlight them which is one reason I love doing pod friends just as an excuse to keep asking questions one well actually really honestly first and foremost I think it's an excuse for me to have really great conversations with people and have like that dedicated time that we don't often have in our lives to just like sit and talk with people but especially people who are all over the place

just as busy as as we are right um so I don't know I love that yeah when we take a moment and just follow our instinct to like ask the curious questions that we have about another human being it takes just a moment to find how we are really, really, really all connected. So much so that my whatever it was within me that drew I'm in the middle of like four really good books right now. Wow. For some reason, it drew to me to pick up this new Pushcart prize. For some reason, it drew to me to pick up this new Pushcart Prize.

I think because Stephen Fishback talks about the Pushcart Short Stories Prize. And I was at a library book sale and there were two of these Pushcart anthologies of short stories. So that's why I picked it up at the book sale was because of Stephen Fishback. And then now I was feeling drawn to that last night to read that story. And or to read a story in there. That's the one I turn to and it ties to what your work is in the world right now it's storytelling it's connection it's all these things and I really in a in a world where there's so many things that are just just fall on the floor, give up, disconnected.

Why even keep going? I get that. And then there can be moments of connection. Yeah. Feeling like there is love, whatever you want to call it, God, universe, like tying us all together. And in those moments where we all get closer to remembering,

we are one thing with the earth, with each other, with nature, then we can continue to move towards more love and movement and less divisiveness and less fear. And we can do things that we're a little nervous about because we know we have community supporting us. So I love that this story that I

was pushed to read was in this way. And then I wonder the ripple effect of like, if someone else is going to pick it up, like pick up the story, what short story do they read? And who does that connect with the next human being? I just love these ideas of moments of ripples of connection. And I think one of the best things we could also do in those moments is to let people know that we're having them or communicate them because those I feel like those things happen. Like I'm that if I didn't bring up what I do in my work, for instance been using the word, the phrase, really the universe like often lately. And I'm not really that person, but I think I kind of maybe I am where I'm like, oh, like a lot of things just happen. They happen in the universe. The universe works. The world works. You know, as you were saying, like whatever, whatever it is to you you it works in mysterious ways so I think that's really fascinating and I will say because I was just spending time going back listening to more road

to reality that I was one of the interviews that I went back to was Chrissy Hoffbeck who is phenomenal and by the way I just added like literally just today added her on LinkedIn because I was like you said to add you on LinkedIn like I'm adding you and I'm sure that we've messaged a little bit before about like winning conditions and all but I love winning conditions it's on my I'm not gonna go I'm not gonna turn around try to find it within my shelf but it's here somewhere and she talks about how just this idea of luck and how we create more luck for ourselves and winning conditions by the book, by connecting with people. The more we connect, the more we put ourselves out there, like it does create really great opportunities for us in the world. And I think about even my career where I graduated college here in D.C.

like 10 and a half years ago now. And a bunch of the different opportunities have come up for me in life and work-wise even, you know, while they've been a lot of hard work and there's been a lot of that going in and a lot of connecting has been because of just some of putting myself out there. And you never know like what life and the world will really have in store right it's funny where now I feel like I'm like drifting to career perspective which is like yeah there's a lot of stuff that's very a lot of synchronicity in this yeah yeah if you look for it it's always there right there it's it's always there and like you

said and I love that, like maybe on a different day on the same, a different aligned universe, everything everywhere all at once, where I didn't bring up that I read the short story or you didn't bring up your, but it still would have happened. Like I still would have read this story

that touched my heart and you still would be doing that world's work and it's still connecting us. But it is really fun to see those moments. I did not answer your question which was what did I want to be when I grow up oh did I really yeah I guess I did ask that question about 20 minutes ago or so but yeah like did you have an idea I mean just just because just so we yeah so you have an idea of that um I mean as long as I can remember I thought i wanted to be a lawyer by the time i was in high school i thought i wanted to be an environmental lawyer

um i remember watching aaron brockovich and just being like that is what i want to do like go and represent communities that are being screwed over by the system um all of us are part of communities that are being screwed over by the system um all of us are part of communities that are being screwed over by the system in one way or the other and um i went to see a career counselor when i was like 15 i was like i visited all the colleges i wanted to go to i thought my sophomore year spring break you know what most 15 year old kids want to do on spring break is go visit universities. And I saw like a career counselor. I forget my mom like drove me to the big city to like meet this,

this career counselor. And I took this huge long placement quiz thing. And he was like, Oh, you're not meant to be the lawyer. You're meant to be the judge, which is so funny now that like it did set me on this path to go environmental management sure to see me in like

a courtroom and being a judge is quite funny to me uh maybe he just saw me on the jury of survivor is what his maybe he was mixed it's that it's something witchy there when he was seeing something but he he's not a survivor fan so he didn't really know didn't really know how to bring that bring that out in words um so I did that and then yeah I got out of college went to go do this island thing and then in that in those summers I um just like asked every person who I knew who was a lawyer you know if I could shadow them. And really quickly, the pattern I picked up on was all of the people who I interned or shadowed

were really tired and miserable. Yeah. And none of them said, oh my gosh, it's so fun that you want to be a lawyer. This is the greatest work of my life. I love doing this every day. Like, let me show you my craft. That is not what anyone said.

I mean, some people were like proud of what they were doing and deeply committed to their hard work, but no one was having fun. And I was like, this can't be for me. I'm not going to law school. I'm not going to go spend more money, get into more debt so I can live that life. Right.

I don't know what, I don't know what instead. And I would say this is probably becoming as in my writing, the theme of my life. I don't know what it is, but it's not this. And I think with my career, when I was shadowing those lawyers, that was the first time where I was like, I don't know what it is, but it ain't, it is not this. So that's what I wanted to be when I grew up, I thought. Wow. I love that though. And it's, it's interesting. Like when we, back to connection, like when we go out and connect, we find things that we want to move toward, but we also could

find things that we move away from. And I was just reflecting on the fact that, you know, in like over the last, I'll say eight years, I've interviewed like hundreds of people in different ways. A lot of change makers, folks in the climate world, folks in the podcasting world and otherwise. And I think the beauty of that or the secret of that is that you really learn from other people's experiences, mistakes, successes, opportunities, all of that. And that, like, I think I've probably been able to avoid a lot of pitfalls just from like asking people questions or observing how are they talking about the work that they do? How do they feel in the work that they do?

So I actually, there's so many directions that we could go in, but I want to come back to Road to Reality. Right now, I'm so curious about your career coven journey and what exactly, I don't want to say part of it's what led you to that, but there's also this idea of like taking the leap or getting started or whatever you want to call it. And obviously there's a difference from having an inkling or an idea to actually making it a reality. Some might say a road to reality.

I wasn't good. Edit that so much edit it out edit it out it's gonna be in here um no but i love it i literally love it do not take that out yes what was your path to the career coven work what inspired inspired that? And, and then how did you actually do it? And I'll say, I say that as someone who's definitely been in that mode of, you know, having full-time jobs at different points, but also even with the storytelling and interviewing folks thinking, okay, well, how could I build, you know, build my own thing doing this and doing it in a way that I want to do it and so I yeah I admire that's one of the things I admire about you but I'm just take me on the journey Kelly thank you those were that was such a kind intro to your to your curiosity which I'm gonna I'm gonna skip to the part that I think is the theme.

And then I'll talk you through it, which is that is the key, right? Is what is, what perks your interest and who do you feel drawn to what they're doing? And what is it about someone else's life that you think you cannot have? Ask yourself, why not you? And there is your next work to do towards it, right? So anyway, that's kind of the end. And then we'll go back to the beginning.

How did I get here? I got lucky and worked hard when I first moved to Chicago after I paid back my wonderful island man's loan. And I had enough money to get started. My parents wrote me. My parents paid for my undergrad. I did pay for almost all of my graduate school. But my parents paid for my undergrad. I did pay for my, for almost all of my graduate school. Um, but my parents paid for my undergrad. I am very, very lucky that my parents have helped me. Um, they wrote me, they wrote my first month's check when I moved to Chicago for $667, um, was my like third of

the bed. I moved into essentially the closet of a, where two of my other friends were living. It was this tiny, tiny room where just a twin bed fit in Chicago and Wicker Park. And my parents wrote that first check for me. And so I want to say thank you and acknowledge that that puts me in a position that a lot of people do not ever get blink an eye at. So my parents did write that first check for my first month in Chicago. I got in touch with, I was like interviewing for like nannying jobs, which is so funny because I'm healthy by choice and I love kids, but that would probably not have been the fit. So none of those things worked out. I interviewed for like three or four nannying jobs and didn't get any of them. Surprise, surprise. Not surprising at all. So I got into a temp agency

that was just like temping for administrative professionals. And I worked for two weeks, one at one place and one at the second. And both of them, one offered me a job right away and then to become an office manager of a proprietary hedge fund. And the other one stayed in contact with me.

And a year later, they called me up and said, hey, how's that job going? We loved meeting you. Would you come work for us now? And that second firm was called Shields Menele Partners. And they were an executive career transition firm so they were working with all ceos cmos cfos some svp levels but big time folks who were paying like a lot of money for like a premier career transition service and i just got so lucky to work for the founders of this company. Um, and they took me under their wing. I started out just as the office manager answering the phone, but it was a small firm.

I was doing client service and helping, and they let me be a sponge. And in the time I was there for three years, I think there were 72 executives that went through their program. I don't know if it's picking up the sirens. And there is. Yeah. Just rushing to know it's barely picking up. So I got to witness like 70 plus. Super on paper, rich people. I remember this one guy'd gotten an eight million dollar

severance meaning what fired from his job yeah eight million dollars and was like having to work with the financial advisor to like get things sorted and i was just like my brain yeah broke in that moment like my parents have done well for themselves we were chicken farmers I got my one new pair of shoes growing you know go to Kohl's pick out your one new pair of shoes that sort of thing growing up and I was just like what like if somebody gave me eight million dollars I would never have to work a day again in my life. And his problems and what happened pattern and pattern and pattern of these C-suite executives was they were worrying about the exact same things that my friends were worrying about who were coming out of college, which is what's my next job?

Why won't anyone hire me? What do I actually like to do? Who is going to let me in? Who am I? Right. Wow. And in those three years, I really...

It's human. Just human questions, right? Yeah. It's human questions. It doesn't matter if you... I mean, I still don't know if I fully believe it. Like if I could make $8 million getting fired from your job, your life wouldn't be different than what my life is. But really the questions on the inside happened to be the same. And in those moments, I learned that career and work can be a portal in which we explore what we're doing here on this planet.

And career can be this thing that is imposed on us from the outside in, or career can come from the inside out. And those aren't the words I would have used then, but those are the words I'm able to use now that my passion on this planet and purpose on this planet, because I failed so many times and tried to force myself into being quote unquote successful on paper. I was. But I was miserable. Yeah. Yeah. I worked at startups. That's what I thought i wanted to do i thought i wanted to be a chief of staff chief of staff chief of staff i became a chief of staff then i was head of operations and a financial for and then in a private equity firm and so i have all those words right private equity finance startups chief of staff head of director like all these things that I thought I was supposed to be working for.

But I kept feeling like I was just in the wrong place. And my instinct, and I think a lot of people's instinct is there's something wrong with me. Wow. I don't fit in here. I don't fit in here. There's something wrong with me. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're looking around and everything you're seeing is saying, but everyone would want this. This is the dream. Why am I not loving this?

Why don't I feel like I'm at the top of the mountain and I've accomplished everything? not loving this. Why don't I feel like I'm at the top of the mountain and like I've accomplished everything. And I, it's funny because I feel very fortunate to have not had those markers of success in mind, but I've also been in places in my career where I have had something and had people see that, like, I'll give it a specific example. For about five years before I was at my current job, which where I've been for four years now, I was working at this small organization, but my main client was NASA. And so everyone was like, oh my gosh, NASA, that's the dream. And that was, I never felt like that was the dream at all for me. But it was very fascinating to witness people, including working with people all over the world who, you know, I was living their dream. And one thing I wanted them to know, and I still want people to know,

whether it's us as, you know, podcasters on RHAP, or you being on survivor or whatever it is is that like yes it's really cool but there's all the grass is also greener on the other side and you have to start from that place of like coming from uh it has to start from within like you need to do what you love you need to do what brings you joy you need to do what you're good at and what makes you full and what is purposeful for you in order to be happy I mean happy or content or whatever you want to call it with your career or else you're going to feel really disconnected because like a VP or chief of staff or whatever role it is isn't going to make you happy at the end of the day it's not I don't think so now I'm pretty sure it won't but I also I like that eight million dollar the eight million dollar severance I think could go a long way to

me paying for some happiness not even full happiness but right there's some things there are some things that would that would contribute um yeah yeah So that was, I mean, crash and burn, by the way, in my, in my corporate career, it was not, it was not easy. And how did I do it? How did I turn it into where I am now? That is the career coven, which is actually going to be a, for lack of better term, a portion of the bigger thing that I'm working on building right now, which we just don't have the name for it yet. So my partner, Alex and I, we both came from holistic career coaching. And so we do have this, like I'm talking about this career portal and career lens where we see a lot of opportunity for helping people transform their entire life, a holistic view through career because and why is that because Martha Back who I trained under says suffering never lies like suffering is going to tell you that if you are suffering somewhere that is yourself and your integrity and your

she uses your essential self versus your social self so the people pleasing what does outside world think oh you work for nasa that's the dream right versus essential self is like yeah but i spend my days doing xyz and that doesn't really it's not out in the stars like you think so martha beckett about moving to your essential self and how you know you are out of integrity is because it feels like suffering and i see a lot of people in the world who are suffering a little bit or a lot of it through their career because it's out of integrity with where their essential self wants to go it's not just career this aligning your limiting like seeing your limiting beliefs and getting back into who you are having

trusting self-talk as opposed to negative self-talk and aligning with your essential self is bigger than the career portal but here we are starting with the career coven because both alex and i have been career coaches i've done it it full time for two years, but I started my own, my first little like coaching business called the self coach years ago. I forget when it even what eight to 10 years ago, I started to learn with that executive career company I worked for and apply the actual steps, which is look inside first before you go searching outside in various tools and exercises. And I started helping friends first for free. Then there was one week where I had to wake up like three days of my five day week to help other people prep for their career stuff. And I was doing it all for free. And I was like, huh, I don't think that I can energetically

wake up at 630 in the morning to do extra career work for other people for free when I'm still just getting by. But I was doing that for a while. So it was in, in long, not short, turtle step to turtle step to turtle step towards my curiosity about how the way other people were living their life that looks like it was working for them in the way that I wanted my life to work for me yeah and I think that's how we do it I think that's how the career coven has come to be which is answering the call of my curiosity and trusting that it's all going to be okay. Wow, it's so powerful. And I especially love what we're talking about in the context of new year,

new beginnings for people, but also really a good time for many people. And you could do this any time of the year to like stop and reevaluate and check in with yourself and and really be mindful about how am I feeling where am I where do I want to go what do I want to move away from energetically as you're saying what suffering am I putting up with or leaning into because I feel like that is noble or that that's the way I should be living? Lots of questions there. But I guess like

one thing I want to know is when did it feel real for you that you were doing the career coven? Because you mentioned this self-coach thing that you were doing before. I also I'll say this was 20 maybe 2017 is when I started this like project I called it outside of work which then I made into an LLC so it was technically a business even though I was not making any money but it was me interviewing people like making a film interviewing people all this stuff and it was real but it i think where it really started to like fully feel real for me was then taking those skills and now in these last few years or last four years of my work like actually having budgets to make documentaries interviewing people and like travel involved in putting on events. And there are people who are actually consuming, like when did it,

I don't even know if I'm just asking this specific to the career coven or just like the concept of, but when did it feel real for you? Was there any point where you just still had that imposter syndrome or was there any point where you had imposter syndrome period around it? I think it's there because maybe you didn't. You might've known.

I still do. I still do to this day when you're asking the question, which I totally, I totally get, um, which is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're asking is, is I, Matt, see you Kellen on the other side. When did you get on the other side. When did you get to the other side? I have a feeling.

Oh, yeah. Keep going. Keep going. I have a feeling. I'm just picking up on where you're going with this. Yeah. Well, that is my question. Do you feel like you're on the other side? Is that kind of it?

That's it. When were you on the other side? I am curious. My question for you is on the other side of what, where was I before? And where am I now on this bridge in which you see me walking? Well, that's a good question. And maybe I'd put that back to you.

This is what happens when you have two interviewers. It's a question, question, question. But I guess it's also this question. Do you feel like you're on the other side of anything? Do you feel like there's something that you are still like striving toward or like a bridge you want to cross at this point? This is fascinating. Yeah yeah no I'm I am still I just I think this perceived inflection point that we are talking about like I just want to call it out for the audience a I love it or perceived inflection point of what you were asking

me yeah I actually don't know what that is. That is a reflection of your experience, right? And then you're saying to me, did you get to the other side? And I'm like, well, I have my own story. Let me tell, I can tell you, I was, I was here and then I am there. But each of us, I think have our own inflection point of when we look out in front of us in our life or other people, we think they are over there. I am stuck here and I can't get myself over there because X, Y, Z. There we go. I love that. I love this stuff because it's so fascinating because all of it and i think even what i'm asking about is if if uh well maybe this is this is so fascinating

because you are in a position where you're really focused on helping people navigate these like perceptions these beliefs sometimes misconceptions about what it means to let's say for lack of a better term like make it to a certain point or to feel like you are full and like you're at a certain point but something i'm hearing from you which is really powerful is that like there's not a point and this is kind of what we've been talking about in different ways with roles like there's not a point where you are there's not a point like there's just not a point that you have to get to for it to be real I'll stop talking as I see you nodding and really I'm listening no I, I was learning, but it's interesting.

It is interesting because I do think that so often the one, the world puts us in a place where we think, okay, I need to have certain, I have to have something, certain tools, certain experiences, whatever it might be to like, to be the thing that I want to be. So in order to be like the, I don't know if someone's be like the world's best podcaster, what does that look like? Does that mean making a podcast and doing an episode and doing what you love and feeling fulfilled? Does that mean doing a hundred hours, you know, a week of podcasts somehow on your podcast network? And it's, it's so fascinating to me because I feel like most of us have

perceptions of where we would want to go from where we are rather than like being present in the moment. And this brings me back to Chrissy Hoffbeck, who I keep mentioning because in your road to reality conversation with her, she's talking about being this person who is always playing this waiting game of like waiting for the next thing, waiting for the next thing, or even just looking forward to the next thing. But some like, I think what's really important to recognize is that like, we're there, like you're there, you're in it, you're doing it. And it also feels like it didn't, from what I'm hearing from you, it didn't feel like there had to be like a leap that you took to get to doing

the thing. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I hesitate to be like, so like airy fairy, but it's like, when youy fairy, but it's like when you ask that question, it's like there were a million leaps. Yeah. And then probably, and then there were none at the same time somehow. And yes,

I'm, I can always point to some pretty big ones when I got divorced for my first marriage. That was pretty big one. When I look Jeff Probst in the face and was like, you cannot make me a series of stories of the men that I've dated. That will not one. I got one. This is in my interview portion.

Yeah. And they take you into a room this is how they did it back in the day and Jeff is there and Matt is there the executive producers room I don't know 10 to 20 people I'm not even sure you sort of black out for that stuff I do yeah and I had gotten broken up with at my birthday and so that was kind of the storyline going through my casting journey and and and they take you in you have like what felt like 30 seconds it was probably somewhere between three and five minutes and lynn spillman at the time was like clap their hands and she's like okay we're done and i'm like yelling at jeff on the way out the door like i am not going to be the summation of the stories of the men that i've dated there is so much more to me than that like just trying to like say I mean I told good stories but they were all about the men who had fucked me over and I'm like that's not who I am and and and Jeff looked at me and he goes Kellen

trust the process and then Lynn ganked me out the door and they slammed it. And that was my five minutes. And then I had no, you know, so it is a series of moments where I did take the leap where that guy said, Hey, I'll loan you $5,000. Do you know what? $5,000? Yeah. I'll yeah. I'll take your money and I'll pay you back. And I don't even really understand interest. We kind of do when you're 19, but it's like, you know, or I guess I was 21, but that guy took a chance. Jeff saying, trust the process.

Things that I did, leaving my first marriage. I mean, all 38 times that I packed up my crap and went to the next place. I mean, there are millions of times where, yes, I took the leap. And yes, I was scared. And yes, I did it anyway. And I would argue that everyone is going through those. It's just a matter of noticing the moment when this phrase is all over the internet on my page,

which is your brain will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven. Wow, that's surreal. I like that. So where is it in each day that familiar hell is winning out over an unfamiliar heaven and it's just a I think it's a matter of noticing and you're not gonna quit your job maybe you will if you are listening to this and you are gonna quit your job tomorrow and you're like this is what I needed I'm going over that's amazing yeah that happens to not be you what is one thing that you are curious to know about a person who is doing something that you

would like to do yeah Martha Beck calls them turtle steps and it's just like taking one turtle curious turtle step at a time towards the life you have an inkling that you deserve is what feeds back the energy into that life that you're creating wow and you know what million steps no it's powerful because we are taking each of us are taking steps, even if we don't appreciate it. And I find myself having a lot of these conversations with people I meet at our HAP live events because of pod friends, because of the pride has spoken and the interviews and the conversations. conversations and I find that people often admire something whether it's about me or about a guest in a conversation we have and I just like to hold up a mirror to them to say no you're awesome too like you are doing it you're amazing I am me but you are you and that's something that's valuable and valid and important and meaningful and it's it is honestly like really a gift through um pod friends and the pride has spoken to have that ability to in a very in very

unexpected ways because like this is like we're at survivor watch parties like we're in this this is not we're not here for like all the life conversations because we are, because they come up and it's cool to be able to remind people like, hey, you're awesome. You're probably doing better than you think you are. There are, and this is something I'll say to you, Kellen. And I feel like this is like a message that I want to share with more folks, which is that as much as we get like gratitude or appreciation from people, like I'm sure you've gotten, I know you've gotten so much love either from guests or from reviews or whatever it is for Rhodes Reality as one example,

or for the Career Coven as one example, that there are so many more people who never reach out to share their appreciation or their gratitude or the ways that you, they impact, that you impact their lives. And so that's just one thing I want to pass on to you, but also anyone listening that they're like the ripple effects and the impact that you have is way bigger than you'll ever know. And that's like one cool thing for me about life,

realizing that like for most of us we feel really cringe like you know fanboying or whatever it might be um to to let people know how much we we love and appreciate them but like that there's there's a lot of that appreciation and gratitude and energy out there which um you know it's nice when we have conversations that surface that and I will say in an in a smooth segue here that I feel like one of the things you do so well with road to reality is that you really do give people their flowers and show them appreciation and love um so we could definitely talk about all of that experience a bit but I want I'm a fan I love what I love what you're doing. I'm on board. And I think that it's like all very tied in with this conversation when it comes to connection, when it comes to gratitude, when it comes to like how we perceive someone versus how they perceive themselves, so on and so forth. So I don't even want to ask a question right now, Kellen. I'm just like, I'm just thinking about road to reality.

I'm thinking about you. I'm thinking about how you're part of this community. I'm thinking about where that, where that began. Rabio. Hey, Rabio. So, you know, it's, it's started, things started going a long time back with you leaving voicemails.

You're here. You're doing it. We're here. I know. Can you even believe that? I mean... It's insane. I can remember

my brothers who introduced me to RHAP and like... Uh-huh. When I got that voicemail played it was like the world the heavens had opened up

and shined down on me and I all of my dreams had come true like really genuinely me and my brother were like oh my god like I can't believe it you were he was doing chores in the chicken house i couldn't believe it it was your voice as he was listening to the recap of whatever show it was you know yeah it's just look at that the i mean it's like

and i think part of why i can sit here is because I'm always going to have the voices that tell me I can't. You asked about imposter syndrome. I every day still hear the voice that says, who the fuck do you think you are? Right. Relatable. Like,

and people say that to me, right? I mean, and, and my, my time on the show was not did not go swimmingly in the social media universe and like it's not that i don't have the negative self-talk that says there's something wrong with me or am i

doing this right am i an imposter syndrome who am I to think that I could put on a podcast? Those voices are still there. I just sit and look at them and listen. And I think, whose voice are you? Who is saying that in my head? Who has gotten into my head and has made me believe that I don't deserve to be here because I look around the world and I think everyone deserves to everyone who wants to be on survivor deserves to be on survivor whether whether you get on or not is another story if you have the dream of wanting to be on survivor you deserve to have that dream

and to be on survivor and to go it. And notice how it makes you feel to think about being on Survivor. And then think about other things in your life that you do have access to that give you little glimmers of doing that. For example, now I'm playing Blood on, getting to play Blood on the Clock Tower. It feels very much like the, you know,

same energy I got when i played mafia in high school on like our high school right florida like it's the connection it is the connection of going and being with people i think that's what a lot of us crave who want to be on survivor is actually the connection we think what we crave is a million dollars we think what we crave is is to go and manipulate and see if we can be good and all this stuff but i wonder if underneath it all we're all actually craving connection community signing out of the digital world reconnecting with the earth seeing what we have in us seeing how far we can go versus i want to go on a game

show and win a million dollars i don't think it's divisiveness. I think it's community that we're all looking for. And being a part of RJP, going to live events, going to Bitter Jurors podcast, all these other podcast communities and watching the show Survivor together, I'm telling you, feels like all the good parts of being

on Survivor without the bad parts. Yeah. No, and I'll'll say that but it's true no and i think that's one thing i'm really thankful for whether through pod friends but just generally through like listening to people sharing their stories and their experiences um is that you really do come to understand again it's that idea the grass is always green on the other side but there's just so much to as um as it's probably really tough for us to grasp or tough for people who haven't had that experience to grasp yeah being on tv for millions of people

with an edited product that you have no control over is not a walk in the park. And it's, and you know, for, I'm sure for some people, it changes their lives and has a massive, you know, impact for ways that are really amazing. I know it also hurts people in different ways and it's really complicated, but I will say, I just have this moment as someone who hasn't been on Survivor where, you know, thanks to the pride has spoken with Dr. Evie Jagoda, we just had this moment as someone who hasn't been on Survivor where you know thanks to the pride has spoken with Dr. Evie Jagoda we just did this fundraiser for Point of Pride an organization supporting like trans communities and lives with financial assistance assistance check out Point of Pride but this poster and this is the most surreal thing because it's like me uh grace leader and

josh wiggler also podcasters on the network and then about 15 survivor players and i'm and i i was texting evy about this that realistically five years ago when the only person who was part of that who was on survivor was jac Derwin. Shout out to Jacob. But like none of us could have imagined being there, let alone, you know, me where I'm like, hey, I'm having a great time. I just the other day saw, you know, Bryce and Nguyen at Bryce and Nguyen present and had a great time.

Week before was at RHAP with a bunch of folks and having that community. And it is really amazing how you can, to your point, get that community and connection without someone having to like cast you into that spot. And if that happens, give you permission. Yeah. And it's nice to not wait for people's permission

for you to have the thing that you think might fulfill you or adds your life. I mean, hold on, hold on. I literally stole that from, I literally just stole that from a podcast. Like that's the first time we, I had a bell. I actually don't have a physical bell. Look at that. I actually don't have a physical bell. Look at that. Yeah, you do not have to wait for a system to give you permission to participate in the joy you desire. Wow, that's so deep.

That's what you just said. I was just repeating what you just said. Oh, well, no, I was, but it's hearing it from you that sounded deeper than what I said so plus I most of the time I don't know what I'm saying like I just I don't you don't hear yourself in the same way you go into a bit of like an art flow a little bit which is a sign that you're in your what we call it the coven and many people do your zone of genius right it when times when

time stops when things slow down when it feels easy when you're not having to fight a pill it's a one of the pretty good signs that you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing um not supposed to be like follow the rules but just like where you are you know um yeah it's so and you know just huge huge props to so many people in the rjp community who advocate for all of us in every way some people may see it as like and it is there's no um there's no speaking around the truth, but there are groups of people who, and I'm still working on my language right now. I feel like my language around speaking around the LGBTQ community, like all of this stuff is,

is changing because I don't know if you know, a loke, do you know of a loke? I'm not a survivor related. They are like a premier voice in the trans community. And Alok is a poet and a fashionista and a speaker and all of these things, their interview on, we can do hard things. It's like podcast has been life changing for,

I've listened to it. I think like three or four times. Also they they're on the, we are man Enough podcast, which is a very interesting conversation because Alok is talking to two men hosts and Liz Plank, who is also a host on that show. Anyway,

that Alok's, one of many messages is that trans folks are showing us that we are all, we have all put ourselves in boxes that we don't want to be in. And I am relating so much to what they're saying and wanting to figure out how to work in the new paradigm. Yeah. Of paradigm yeah of no longer binary in any way yeah yeah like yeah because that's not straight you know like um gender all these things like like we are not we're not one thing and we don't

have to choose one thing and i think it might be made up. Like Alok says that we are like having to choose whether we are in that box or, or this box. And I'm still, I'm still thinking through how all of that works. And as a woman, a white woman with privilege, right. Where do I make sure that I stay quiet when I need to and speak and fight like hell where I need

to. And the fact that we are in pod friends and the RHAP network, I just want to say and hold up props to all of the people who are doing the work to be inclusive, to give voice, to call out, to say the hard things that some people think are hard and all that stuff. And you are in that group so much.

So thank you for the lift and the weight that you are doing to carry some of us who are still learning along the way and it first of all as someone who's constantly working to accept compliments thank you for that because it is there are a lot of people carrying and they're people carrying even more weight than me and in a lot of cases too and it's um but what's important is that people show up and carry the weight that they can and recognizing that you know this is coming out 2025 is beginning new presidential administration. And literally, yeah.

And it's just like recognizing that it's more important than ever that we carry the weight where we can. Recognizing that every time we show up to show love and put in effort to support our communities like that means the world your neighbors your communities of all kinds your thousand percent your survivor community whatever you know yeah communities and all of this way to take care of each other and to say thank you to each other and the fact that the that i've already experienced the rhap community to be a place that does that, which we don't always see, especially like in the world of social media and the Reddits of it all. You don't always see that. Like, I'm so thankful for that. And just want to give you a shout out, an unsolicited shout out, because I see you speaking up and tweeting about and talking about and bringing up things and vividly.

And I don't remember what podcast it was on, but vividly remember you on a podcast, maybe in the last year on a recap podcast, but like talking about issues and calling it out. And like, that's what we need. Like, yeah, you are like a white woman with the privileges you have. I think there's there's a whole other conversation about privilege and how like different people have different levels of privilege in all sorts of ways. So that's a whole other podcast to get to a much longer one but like maybe but like the fact that you speak up and again i i'm going back to your conversation with wendell on i almost said pod friends uh but on the road to reality where he's just like giving you the kudos of like yeah ask the questions where it's good that you can ask questions not just you kellen but like anyone it's good when you ask questions if you don't know if you're doing or saying the right thing. And you can also use Google and chat GPT and ask the questions.

You can ask the questions that you have. I will tell you that I am still learning and I'm not expecting anyone to answer this for me when um when when human beings have their pronouns in their bio and like obviously for me like she her or he him they them and then if it says she they or he they I'm still working towards it so what I'm doing is I have multiple times googled it I have asked chat GPT I'm still learning and still figuring it out and like it is yeah I'm like I think I'm just like am I old now why am I not like just getting it right away but there's no shame in like googling questions asking people in your safe circle the questions you don't quite understand because what we don't understand, we often fear, um, and fear can create distance and fear can create defensiveness. And also like, I just don't want to look stupid. And I certainly as hell do not

want to offend anybody, but we can do our own work and our own research to understand. And we can say out loud, I am in the middle of still sorting out that specific part of the pronoun thing. And so that's where I am. Okay. And just, you know, Google it people. If there's something that seems strange, no one's going to look like you can cancel it, whatever, whatever your questions are, you can google it first look for resources and people who have written the books who have done the work who have been living out these experiences because there's a lot of research you can find on your own um because we don't need to put the weight on the people who are in the communities for example as a woman if you're a man who is confused about why women would like equal representation in boardrooms, maybe Google it.

Yeah. Maybe think about what it might be like to be one man on a board of eight women. Maybe think through those things yourself before you go to a woman and ask them why, what does this mean or whatever. So do your own work, do your own research first, find communities, support other people and just tell the truth and be honest. Because I think honesty and being genuinely curious is the best way to go, at least for me.

That's where I think I've found the most connection and freedom. Oh my gosh, I love all this. Like we've gone so many places. I want to ask, like, just as we wrap up this portion of the interview before, before the part where we have some questions for the RHB Patreon, just with Road to Reality in general, I wonder, are there any learnings that you've had along the way with all of those conversations or any themes that you've seen? Because I mean, you know, there were things that I'm sure you kind of knew or thought you knew from your experience or interactions otherwise, but what, what, like, I don't know, anything that you've learned from that to date? Because I'm sure there'll be more conversations to come.

Yeah, I think, oh my God, I hadn't learned so much. So much from every single person I talked to. I mean, I just, I don't even want to give examples because I won't remember all 18 episodes or whatever off the top of my head. But every single episode, I learned something from the person that i spoke to i learned a different way to look at my own experience i learned a different way of looking at the world

i learned something about that person that i thought i knew that i didn't know even dom who is one of my closest friends you know um and so there's always more to learn about people and it's fun to find out the the other thing I think to kind of tie to the whole theme of the conversation which is like doing it scared um I hadn't produced I hadn't I don't even know if I produced I don't know if that's the word to use like I had never been a guest on a podcast like I didn't know it's not like I had like practiced being a podcast host before I said I had this idea like Rob took a chance on me he said I could do it and you know what I found out I think I'm actually really

freaking good at it you are you are actually think I'm really good at it and and the way I found that is because I craved a space plot twist. I craved a podcast on the RGP network that was first and foremost for survivors. And if fans listened and they got something out of it, cool. I love that so much. What I needed in my post-surviv survivor experience was to have a place to go tell my real story and i could see that all the people who played survivor what they needed was a place to return to who they are as a person and to see how the chess piece of Survivor played out in their life so far.

I created Road to Reality for myself and for my Survivor friends whom I love. And it is a byproduct, I think, that some of y'all have liked to listen and some of you all have learned things from it for your own life. And so that is the biggest lesson from Road to Reality that I have learned things from it for your own life. And so that is the biggest lesson from Road to Reality that I have learned so far. Do what you want to do at your heart.

Ask someone for a little help. Be brave. Do it scared. Create the thing you love because I guarantee you that when you're truly creating something you love, someone else is going to love it too. Oh my gosh. I's the secret that's the secret of interviewing people that I feel like I've I learned a long time ago that doesn't always

occur to me but when it does it's in this moment of having the conversation that number one, you have to do it for you. But also, like I feel so like once we're done recording today, I'll feel such a sense of like accomplishment or wonder or whatever it is just in the conversation. And that's what it has to be about first and foremost. And then if other people engage and enjoy it, like, great, that's what it has to be about first and foremost. And then if other people engage and enjoy it, like great, that's amazing. If they could take something away from it too, that's even more amazing, right? But it has to be something that really accomplishes

something or scratches an itch for you. I love that. And I even just wrote down that idea of do it scared. And it's no wonder that you are great at this because as we know empathy is your superpower or one of them so um which side note um in a different pod friends conversation this season uh somebody references you and references empathy as your superpower so stay tuned for that but yeah i i want to actually go to um as we again wrap up this piece of the conversation or wrap up this like public podcast interview all of it again subscribe to the patreon all that you could subscribe subscribe for free

because this should this next piece will be available for free on the patreon but i actually have something special that is a surprise for you calvin a good surprise a surprise i think you'll like i love all surprises i think you'll love okay good one yeah okay so i actually have a video message and a question to you and basically as backstory i reached out to somebody and i said hey i'm interviewing kellen on pod friends former pod friends yes and i said what question do you have make a video send it back and it was literally like 30 minutes later that i have a video message from the one and only hgtv star uh extreme home makeover star wendell holland let's see what let's see what wendell wants to know and what he has to say it is your boy wendell holland your fellow cast away from survivor 36 ghost island uh first of all i just want to say i'm so so proud of you

all you've accomplished with the career coven with uh roge reality podcast you're killing it you're doing so great so i'm so proud of you i love and appreciate you and appreciate our friendship um we've talked about goals that you've set for yourself and things that i wanted to accomplish in my life. And we both watched a lot of things happen and come to fruition. One thing that sometimes people ask me is, what's next or what's your next goal? When you accomplish like a lot of things,

sometimes you forget to set a new goal. So my question to you is, what's your next goal? And to my good friend, Matt Scott, I love you, brother. I appreciate you, brother. Congrats on pod friends to you. and I hope to see you both soon Matt I saw you recently I'm gonna see you again soon

love you guys aww look I love this question because so much of what we've been talking about is just like I think about healthy relationships with goals shout out to Wendell by the way huge shout out to Wendell, by the way. Huge shout out to Wendell.

Oh, it's just like Wendell is one of those, those people on the planet that we don't always have to, I mean, he's a busy man. He's a busy man. And then every time that our paths get to cross again, um,

it's just like a warm, like cozy hug. And I'm just so thankful that my path has crossed with him. I'm so, so thankful for my friendship with Wendell. And he believed in me. I mean, I told him, if not first, like very, one of the first people I told about my idea for Road to Reality.

And he was like, you've got to talk to Rob about it. I was like, what? I'm supposed to just like go talk to Rob about it. So he really is the one of those people who helped me believe in myself at the beginning of the Road to Reality journey. So thank you to Wendell. Yeah. And he

asked a good question. Like, do you have a goal? Like any goals you want to shout out for Wendell? He asked. I know, putting me on the spot. Like, hey girl, I see you got this new business going. I see you got, you've moved. I see you got this new business going I see you got you moved as you have all this stuff what's next um so I think in a feeling um I'm working on

like the word I can only think of is like embodiment and getting returning and getting back into my body. I feel like I've done a ton of thought work. I just completed a nine month training program under Martha Beck, which was a journey in and of itself. Therapy, somatic, youatic you know talk therapy all these different cbt dbt all the stuff which i've always been and off and on in my life but i'm feeling this recognition that i've not kept a super close appreciation for my body like my skin suit here on this planet. And I'm really, this next thing is embodiment and grounding and feeling and kind of returning back into my body.

I think what that translates to actually is writing my biggest, my next kind of big, hairy, wild, big, hairy goal that Martha calls them is, is actually, I'm, I think I'm writing, I think, I think I'm writing two books actually. I think that's what's happening. I'm, I mean, like words are coming out and it seems to be in two different places. So, um, my, my next big goal is to be writing. You don't know if it's to write a book, but my next big goal is to be writing and to be embodied and to get back into my body over the next year.

I'm in like kind of more commercial words. I'm going from diet and exercise to nourishment and movement. Right. Big difference. exercise to nourishment and movement right big difference and it sounds like so like a freaking i don't know like cover of a 17 magazine like all the way back but it's like i'm creating a new relationship with food and my body and movement and what that really means to take care of myself as opposed to like, I should eat more. I should eat more salads and less french fries. Like I'm tired of that conversation and I want to return

to myself and go to nourishment and movement. So nourishment, movement, writing, and really, um, I'm starting, I think I can announce it. The Coven is starting a talk show. And by that, I mean, no one knows about it and no one's producing it for us. We are going to go on YouTube live and we are going to start the Alex and Kellen talk show. And we are going to start like a dear sugar of sorts as well where people can send in their questions about their career if they want to

really anything but career lens so we're going to have these new ways to interact with people to have people come in and sit with us that's what our desire is to do is to invite people in to come sit with us. That's what our desire is to do is to invite people in to come sit with us with their suffering and see where we can find some liberation instead. So I think that's it. I think that's it. Is that big enough, Wendell? Is that a big enough for what's next?

Yeah, Wendell, let us know if that's big enough. But no, I love that. And I love that, like all that we've talked about with the themes of connection, with the themes of getting out there. And also just a reminder for folks like tune in, tune in once it's happening. Ask questions you if you're wondering like, oh, I don't know if I need this. I think I'm OK and where I am in life or career, like just do it. You have nothing to lose. You have nothing to lose. So I have to I just have one more question for you right now, which is a question I love to ask everybody. And you did just mention books and announcing them.

So I have to ask you, Helen, a big one. If your life were a book or documentary, what would the title be and why? I see themes in our conversation. There were different things that came up, but I want to ask you, what would the title be and why? And maybe the why might be obvious based on our conversation,

but I figured I'd ask. It's coming to you. I believe in it. Yeah, what would my, what would the name of my current if it was written now what would the documentary name be it's not leaving me so I'm just going to say it return to self oh I like that I love that it's like the first portion of my life maybe the first 30 years we're trying to figure out what was wrong with me that I didn't fit into the system and I've turned this page that's like wait what is it about the surf the system that isn't serving me and in that quest I think it is a return to myself trusting myself trusting my inner voice and trusting what feels

good and is exciting to me versus shoulds so it's going from from like, it's still kind of like trusting my gut, I guess, to be honest, as cheesy as it is. Some people say that about my, and they did make me say it too many times. I must've been just blurting that out all over the place. It was annoying to me too, everybody. But it really is this combination of head, heart and gut or sacral response and returning to myself and trusting

myself instead of the outside, maybe inside out instead of outside in, but I think it's returned to self. I love that. And just thank you for all this. Any words for the people who are tuning in at this point? Still like anything you just want to say in closing to them. I love how thoughtful you are, by the way.

And I also love watching you think. Yeah, I'm sorry. You might have to chop those pauses. No, no, no, no. I think it's good. I think it's good because it's just, it's real. This is a conversation. And it's a conversation with people who are listening to this, right?

It's like, I'm waiting. In some ways, I believe that in the, when you say, what do you want to say to them? I'm like, well, I need to hear what their question is. I have yet to meet a human being in a real conversation that wasn't a little bit deprived of rest. Mm-hmm. little bit deprived of rest. Lie down. Breathe. Not get on your yoga mat and meditate and do and just breathe and rest.

There are new things coming your way and they will find you in your rest and after your rest. That is when ready comes. So yeah, I think that's what I would say to everybody. Have a nap. Take a rest. You're not doing anything wrong. There's nothing wrong with you. I'm so glad you're here. Yeah. I'm so glad you're here yeah I'm gonna cry

I love this thank you so much everyone for tuning into this week's episode of pod friends we're back more conversations to come this season it's gonna be really exciting keep an eye out for conversations with Sam Moore, with Carolyn Weger, with so many others coming up in this Survivor offseason. And again, if you want to be tuned into it, just go to BeAPodFriend.com or subscribe to PodFriends wherever you get your podcasts, wherever you listen to them. Also, if you want more of Kellen and me in conversation or just want to support what we're doing, there are a few ways you could do that. One is by going to

Patreon where you can listen to the exclusive first ever edition of 15 Minutes with Friends with me and Kellen talking, diving in, having some patron-only conversations. Go to robbazwebsite.com slash Patreon and make sure to subscribe to check that out. You can even

subscribe on the free tier and listen to 15 minutes with friends. Also leave a voicemail, go to speakpipe.com slash pod friends, drop a voicemail about this episode, about pod friends overall, about the conversations we've had anytime over the last three years of this show. I'm so thankful for this show. So thankful for all of you. So thankful that we could be in this, be in this together. And I just want to thank RHAP's team, including Scott St. Pierre,

so many others behind the scenes for your help making these episodes happen, bringing this to life. And of course, one thing I want to say before we wrap up is that if you want to connect with me, catch up with me, I am Matt Scott GW on all social media platforms, especially loving blue sky these days. So make sure to follow me over there. Send me a skeet. I think that's what we're calling them. It's questionable. I'm sorry. It's questionable. I'm sorry. But also make sure to reach out on any platform. I'm on Instagram.

I'm still on X somehow. Heck, this is a career conversation. Hit me up on LinkedIn. Anyway, without further ado, finally, I want to thank all of you listeners. Thank you for being a pod friend.