RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 47 Ep 11

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

This week, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 47 episode 11.

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Survival, no it holds Survival,-it-alls. Survival know-it-alls. Steve and I rock without a doubt. Got the game all figured out. They know it all. Yeah, that's right. The Survivor Know-It-Alls are back here on Black Friday. And I got to turn this off and I got to make the music stop.

And yes, Stephen, happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. To you and yours. I'm so thankful to be here. Happy Black Friday. Happy Honda Days. Yes. We're getting great deals on insights. Fishies for free.

Fishies for free. Well, 50% off all fishies, which are free already. So half off of nothing. Wow. It's worth nothing. Okay. All right. Steven, you and I are both on the road.

Look at our dedication to be here for Survivor Know-It-Alls this week. Wow. You look like, do you bring your studio with you? Do you have it like, are you in like a train? Yeah. You're in a train car? Like that's like the mobile Rob studio? Yeah.

So we're, look, we're here to make it all happen. And Steven is on the West Coast here with us today. And so I'm very excited to get together here for a holiday edition of Survivor Noodle. Stephen, how was your holiday? It was lovely. You know, I had some pie. You know, I had all the other things. What pie do you have?

Well, pecan pie is my number one. I have pecan pie yeah pumpkin pie apple pie um but i do feel like you should get credit for the treats you don't eat rather than you know getting like you know calories for the things oh that's so interesting okay so you so you you want like a negative calories to reward my discipline when i'm choosing not to have you know if i have a piece of pie i should get credit for the half i don't eat rather than the calories of the half i do eat yeah okay that's a that's look you're this is emergent gameplay for thanksgiving yeah yeah like that's right the game is flawed out everything i didn't eat yeah here's like

my picture all right steven wednesday night Can you remember back to it from Survivor Night? I watched Thursday and I still I like because I'm with my kids, you know, I watched in like 10 minute increments. So it's all just like it's like a hazy series of like images like from a dream. Yeah, but I feel like it was exciting. It was exciting. And we can talk through everything from this latest episode. And it really wasn't. We should. We should do that. That's a good idea. For sure. Let me just share with everybody. Of course, it is Black Friday. And so was thinking about is on the fence of joining our underdog alliance of patrons.

That's right. You can now get in and check this out. 47% off your first month of Patreon. The biggest discount I think we've ever done. That's such an arbitrary and reductive percent. Why the 40? Oh, season 47. I guess it's not arbitrary. Okay. It took me a second. Took me a an arbitrary and reductive like percent why the 40 oh season 47 i guess it's not arbitrary okay it took me a second took me a second maybe reductive not

arbitrary and you can do that with the promo prices are reduced happy holidays check it out one month 47 off and a great way to get in on everything we've got going on here on patreon just did a two and a half hour call with the patrons answering questions about this episode. So locked and loaded to talk about this most recent episode. But Stephen, some people felt like that this episode was the maybe not super exciting in terms of the outcome of this vote. Yeah, I do this down the line vote. Right. They've been talking about getting Kyle out. Kyle lost immunity immunity everyone voted out kyle there was kind of like but honestly like this is what a lot of old survivor episodes that you know we all talk about how much we love

classic survivor and this was a lot of classic survivor episodes where it's like there's one obvious person who everybody's voting for you know the show makes like a gesture at this other thing that could happen. But basically the expected result occurs. And I mean, that was like, you know, six episodes out of South Pacific. Right. Or like, you know, just like or a lot of those kind of like mid 20s seasons, you know, where it's just like they sort of were going down the line. So, you know, let's let's enjoy the. No, I'm not complaining too much. I'm thankful for a very fun season of Survivor that we've had to this point.

But we have to talk about where we are in the season. And it does feel like it's interesting that we have these people who were like the quote unquote threats and then the people who are the underdogs. And it does feel as though we could be potentially on our way to a pogonging of the threats from the majority underdog alliance. Yeah. And people have commented that, you know, calling the group of people with all the numbers and all the advantages, you know, the underdogs is a little bit, you know, it's a little bit, I mean, it's like self-aggrandizing except self-minimizing as self-aggrandizing, you know, it's like, cause like we love underdogs now, nobody likes top dogs. So it's like self-aggrandizing in a kind of self-minimizing way. It's a little bit interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think what's particularly interesting about this

is that unlike, you know, a classic underdog story, like a survivor Mark cases where there was the big alliance of four and then the underdogs came together famously with the coconut chop. And then, you know, the, you know, John Carroll and his group tipped off the order and Pascal and Nalia and Sean and V and Kathy flipped it all around. Right. It was like the underdogs came into power with a whimper.

It was not as though, I guess like the vote of Gabe was not seen as sort of like the rebel alliance coming through. It was everybody except for Gabe and Sue were in on the vote. Yeah. And there was no, why we need to talk about,

here's what I want to talk about, Rob. And I want to talk about how these people got chosen to be top dogs. Because the people who are top dogs, allegedly never actually held power for the most part. Kyle, you get it. He's like a challenge beast, right? You know, or what counts for one, you know, four challenges. So you're like, okay, like that makes sense to take him out.

Although it doesn't seem to have a lot of social capital. Genevieve had one big blind side, which against her own alliance. So if anything, she's an outcast, but I guess she's a top dog because she has like a big move under her resume. But like, let's talk about Sam because Sam has, you know, done almost nothing since the merge.

Like he's got like no big move to his credit. Some people say like he gets credit for the Gabe move, but it seemed like everybody wanted the gabe move except sue um and you know he doesn't have any kind of social connections his whole story arc for the past four episodes or whatever has been how he has nobody to work with he is an outcast who has had you know has no one no challenges and i feel and this is something i've been wanting to talk about for a while and this is a great venue for it that this is anti-hot person bias that there is wow okay yeah that was not where i thought you were gonna go with this you've you

know people see a hot person and they target them as a top a so-called top dog yeah without any justification you know just like because he's like, he's handsome and he's tall and he's fit. Like, honestly, it's sickening the way that they are targeting these hotties. I feel like it's more anti-tall than anti-hot person, but okay. Well, you know how I feel about the state of hot people

on Survivor. I've been very vocal that I need, you know, more hot people on Survivor. For some time now, yes. been very vocal that i need you know more hot people for some time now yes you feel like that they you need more uh people who are yes this is not going to happen if this is how they're treated yeah so i don't know if it's necessarily um you know i feel like that uh i don't even know how to rebuttal what this is. I don't think it's necessarily because, you know, I feel like you have some other good looking people that are. No, but come on.

It's clearly this clearly what it is. Like Sam looks like someone who could have won a 30 season. And therefore he's like a top dog. He is battling the perception. And I think he talked about this of like, hey, I'm not a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm a wolf in wolf's clothing. I think he looks the part. He not a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm a wolf in wolf's clothing. I think he looks the part. He's a sheep in wolf's clothing.

He's like a, no, he's like a, like, he's not a sheep. He's like a dog, you know, in wolf's clothing. We love a dog.

I love Sam. Yeah. Look, nothing against Sam. I think that he came in as sort of like the person who was kind of seen as like the jock of this group of 18. And I think that in, you know, more classic Survivor, he might be one jock of four or five jocks in the cast.

But in this season, that he's really kind of the only person that is like in that archetype. And so I think he stands out a little bit more for that. I think he's also seen as a person who was in power and I think that across the three tribes, we saw that anybody who was seen as the leader of their prospective tribes in Gabe and Sam and I guess Genevieve for lack of another person

who stood out as the leader of that group. I think that all three of the tribes have sort of like flipped against their initial power structure and all the people who are at the bottom of the three tribes have sort of come together. And so I think that for Sam, I think that he is, you know, lumped in because of that. I do think I don't like completely disagree with what you're saying but i don't think that's the only reason yeah i do think that a lot of it is the pre-merge like and it's it's cool that like you know it often seems on survivor that kind of what happens in the pre-merge is like a black box and then like everything afterwards like you like

there's no you know no reference almost to the pre-merge. But, but it is kind of, you know, I do think a lot of Sam's, the problems that Sam is facing are because he did play such a dominant role in that pre-merge. He was clearly like the leading, you know, what was happening on his tribe in the, in the pre-merge and he was the glue guy and he was, you know, allied with everybody. And, you know, he was kind of, he, he kind of made the call of, of, um, you know, certainly the Onika vote, you know, instead of, instead of, um, Andy at that, at that crucial vote. Um, so it's, it's, um, I do think that perception is in some ways deserved. Sure. But it is funny that like, if you look at like someone, you know, like Rachel who now has, you know, immunity wins, like multiple advantages, you know, in with everybody. Like she is the top dog.

Like Sam is not the top dog. Yeah. Brian in the chat says that TK was also a jock, but he got voted out early. That is fair. So, Stephen, I think the interesting question to deal with is sort of this predicament that we saw Kyle and Genevieve and Sam in now, whereas the players that are voting these underdogs are sort of like locked in on like, oh, these are the threats. We're making big moves. We're taking out the big players. But from the perspective of Sam and Genevieve and Kyle and Kyle really was never in power. But for Sam in particular, it's like, hey, I don't have power now.

I had power a week ago. What are you doing? Why are you coming after me? I don't have any pull in this game. Right. Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting that like, but like who does, you know, that's kind of what's like sort of interesting about this season. It's like there is nobody who and Gabe was probably the person who was closest to that. Right. Like he did have an actual formed alliance around him to a certain degree. But like really nobody else in this game is kind of got that. Like who's got a solid alliance in this game now that Gabe is gone?

alliance in this game now that Gabe is gone. Yeah, I think that Caroline and Sue certainly have something together. And I don't know, like maybe are Genevieve and Sam sort of like the second close? I know that Andy, Teenie, Rachel talk about a final three, but I don't know how solid that is necessarily. Let's stick with this plight of the top dogs in terms of like what they're going to do. Steven, is there a way that they could change the perception or are they, as I was saying earlier on the patron call, is Sam sort of like in the Trojan zone of like that? There's nothing the more he tries to get out of this predicament that he's in, the more the other players are going to be locked in on trying to get him out. Yeah, it's interesting. Like what is he, I mean, like it's really true that on survivor, like once you're kind of like on the target list and especially like at this stage in the game, when people are really imagining what their end game is, it's so hard to get out of that.

That said, I mean, this is, this is what I want to kind of talk about. This is something that's been like sort of, I've been mulling as like a general kind of like, you know, philosophy of like what to do in this sort of like late mid game of Survivor. So I tweeted that the big mistake for the Tukus and Genevieve to vote out Gabe last week. Okay. Because now, and a lot of people were like, yeah, but the real mistake was Genevieve voting out Saul. Unquestionably. We all agree baseline is Genevieve voting out Saul, game shattering mistake. But so the question of like, was it a big mistake for the Tukus and Genevieve to vote out Gabe last week. Now, obviously, we think it's a mistake for like Kyle and Caroline, maybe, you know, questionably Caroline. But the question is like, was it right for Genevieve, who was the other target last week? Would it have been a smarter move for her to join the Tukus for like a vote to take out one of these kind of like randoms, like kind of her strategy now of like, let's get out the people who are going to take up the spots in the end game or by letting those four Tuku stay in the game. Like, do you do you just want to is she like is she like basically screwing over her end

game? Like, you just want to make it one more vote or are you trying a contemporary survivor to like to set up your end game? Such a fun thing to talk about because that I don't believe that anybody and maybe there was some pundit that was out there. I don't think that this was discussed last week. Where was this? Is this a mistake for Sam and Genevieve to have voted out Gabe this week?

I mean, I think that from Kyle's perspective, it was talked about of like, what is Kyle doing? But I don't think anybody, Sam himself was like, this is great. I feel like I'm getting my groove back. And Genevieve, I think after the Saul vote know she ends up being so relieved that it's not her i i don't think that we were really looking at this from the perspective of of you know is this a mistake to get rid of gabe and also from gabe's perspective that should gabe have been looking at hey i need to like gabe was very concerned about getting past the final nine. He was targeting Genevieve. I feel like that for in hindsight, it seems very clear that Gabe

should have been working with the other threats at the point that he ended up going out because it would have saved him and potentially given him a path to the end instead of just hoping that, you know, he had in Sue somebody, a lamb that he was going to be able to path to the end instead of just hoping that, you know, he had in Sue somebody, a lamb, that he was going to be able to drag to the end, but not in Caroline. And he kind of had all his eggs in that basket where for Gabe, I think the better play would have been to try to ID the other threats

and try to figure out a way to work with them to get out all the people who were the non-threats. Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting, like like is, you know, that does, but is that a mistake for, I'm sure a lot of that came down to time too, right? Like so much of that is who won immunity, you know, you have like 30 minutes to scramble

before tribal council and then off you go. But like, what, like, was that a mistake for Genevieve? You know, because like, there's obviously a huge risk. And Josh Kettles made this point very beautifully on Twitter. Like, you know, to let four Tukus get to the final eight. But, you know, I argued that like, you know, for Genevieve to be the fifth person among four Tukus, like there's a lot of precedent for that person doing very well, right? The last person standing who's not part of the majority alliance. So I just wonder, like, but but now, you know, we say all the time now when we talk about contemporary survivor, we say

you just want to make it one more week because the game changes so fast. So I think that Genevieve was kind of onto this a couple of weeks ago when she said, I don't want to vote out, Sam. I don't want I want to go after the sneakier threats. I want to go after the Rachel's. And so when there are going to be what last week, I think that there were seven votes on Gabe. It was seven, a seven to two vote when Gabe went out. Like, I really think that survivor players need to look at, you know, when when seven people are voting for gabe several of not several uh at least a few of them like we're gonna look back and we'll say like okay at least three people made a mistake are making a mistake because uh when we get to the final four

like uh there's gonna be at least uh you know three people from this seven that won't be there who's making the mistake and i don't think that that Genevieve and Sam even thought of the idea that they were part of the people that were making a mistake on that vote. And it turns out that the people like Caroline was making the right decision. I think that in hindsight, I think that the move for for Sam, for Kyle, for Genev, and ultimately for Gabe would have been to take out Caroline at that point. Because you take out one of the numbers of Tuku, and yeah, for Gabe, he's a little bit like burning the boats. But I think that he is like, especially at the point where, oh, my name is out there. I think that for Gabe, it would have been a really good pivot to get rid of one of the other two goos split up uh caroline and sue and then ultimately like he's still got sue in his pocket he could work with the other threats of like hey let's go after teeny let's go after andy and i

think that you could have like had a you know team of rivals potentially yeah that's like it's interesting best interest like let's let's get to the end. But the thing is, you know, there are two factors that motivate the human beings and that is fear and that is greed. And ultimately the greed of these big players is such that, that they're never going to be able to work with them. And that the fear of the other players is so strong that they just want to take out these other players that go win. Yeah. But that was what made, you know, Jeremy or, you know, Tony so great. It's like they wanted to keep those big threats around in order to keep the heat off of themselves. So that was, you know. But I think that and a lot of this has been made of the lions and the hyenas.

But I think that Tony in Winners at War, he talked about it. But I think at the end of the day, I think that he sort of like led people along to feel like, hey, I'm working. Let's do this. We're working with the lions. But then kept around a few of the hyenas like Nick and Ben and Denise. And I think that there was like a betrayal of the lions. And that's ultimately how this seems to pan out of it. It's like, okay, let me get the lions to other lines to do some things that may not be in their best interest. And then when I've got my goats that I know I can shepherd to the end, I'm going to flip the script on the other lines. Yeah. But that was why Tony, you know, in Kaka'an kept around Spencer was because he knew that like

as long as Spencer was there, people would be more focused focused on on keep on getting on you know getting Spencer out um yeah uh really interesting so everyone screwed up I actually still think this was a bad move for Caroline by the way voting out Gabe because I still think that she would have been better served to be in a position where she is you know because Gabe was always going to be the big target so to you know just too soon for them yeah but I um didn't see it as much for Caroline as I did after this episode. I actually see a really good path for Caroline now. I thought it was a mistake when it happened. But now I guess I'm being results oriented where I feel like that.

She's sort of like the person who's lying in the weeds in the group of the underdogs. And I think that eventually Rachel, who had such a great week and we should talk about the greatness of Rachel. I think Rachel is going to be that person who gets pushed out in front of the bus from that group of five who ends up being we can't let her get to the end. Yeah. Yeah. Fire loser. You think fire loser? I think final five target, but she idles her way into four. Idles her way into four. Yeah, that'll be interesting. five target but she idles her way into four idles her way into four yeah that'll be interesting i i made the comparison before on the uh q a of like uh maybe like a survivor 41-esque ending with this group of underdogs where um rachel is the ricard of this group of the person who's part of like the

like the team of underdogs that ultimately like it's like okay well we can't we obviously can't take this person to the end andy is the zander the zandy the person you know the young guy young guy who uh you know feels like okay he's told us about his game but maybe the other players aren't necessarily looking at him and then you have caroline and sue are sort of like the erica and heather duo that's pretty good it's not bad there's no teeny i'm sorry we don't have a spot for you in this analogy i apologize you know i feel i'm still feeling very positive about about teeny because i feel like genevieve are danny and deshaun yeah yeah is that makes her liana okay yeah um and then who was her shan you know that liana bonnet who was the shan that went i guess kyle so maybe gabe maybe gabe was the shan kyle and gabe together with the shan i don't know

it's not perfect but uh same sort of idea that's pretty good it's not bad anyway yeah so um for caroline i feel like that she definitely has a path here. I really you know, she's had such a great story and she's really told her story particularly well. And so I do feel like that she going to be like the under the radar, a person who comes out of nowhere and potentially wins this thing. I feel like it's really between those two, especially for me, you still think teeny. It's so interesting.

Like when Jeff was narrating like the challenge for, you know, and he was like teeny teens, she's coming in from out of nowhere. She's waiting for everybody else to make mistakes. Everybody's making mistakes around her and teeny, it's all teeny. And then teeny dropped anyway. But I did kind of feel like there was like a little bit of foreshadowing where she's just going to come from out of nowhere. And, you know, she maybe takes out Rachel and fire making.

And then and then, excuse me, they maybe takes out Rachel in fire making. And then and then, excuse me, they maybe take out Rachel in fire making. And, you know, then it's it's I don't know. I also still see a world where it's Rachel. Yeah. So it's a new year. You know what that means? Setting big goals. Maybe you promised yourself you're going to hit the gym every day.

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non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentives to positively promote Acorns. Tier one compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash Rob Pod. Let's talk about Rachel because it's we're 24 minutes in. We haven't really talked too much about Rachel. What an epic night. I mean, fishy for Rachel, right? Oh, yeah. Or Kyle.

Kyle's last chance. What? Why don't you? So beautiful. So beautiful. I got teary when Kyle's exit. That was lovely. That was really, that was a game-changing move.

My mom was like, wow, Kyle, what a great guy. What a classy exit. That's how you do it. I'm so impressed with him. I'm going to remember what he said. It was beautiful. And like, it was so sincere. And to have the wherewithal in that moment, to like give everybody a hug, say something

like lovely to each and every one of them. I'm going to need a hug from you now, Jeff. Like that, I love that that that was such a great Moment you know like It was it was truly like Like old Steven when I wasn't held Accountable by Rob I would have been fishy For Kyle in that moment because it was I was like

You know you moved me you know you moved me To tears and you deserve This nonsense reward for that So but but you know Now that I'm like constantly Honorable mention okay that. So, but, you know, now that I'm like constantly- Can you give an honorable mention? Honorable mention, okay, that's nice. But yeah, I mean, fishy for Rachel for sure.

Like what a week for Rachel. What a week for Rachel. She starts out in this very interesting spot of that we get a boat comes and the two people that are on the bottom in Sam and Genevieve, they are vying to, we want to go on the journey. Rachel throws her hat into the ring.

I thought this was a particularly risky play for Rachel, who has just sort of like escaped where she came into the merge and everybody was looking at her. And then she had the safety without power and Saul saved her. And then there was still people were looking at her. power and Saul saved her and then there was still people were looking at her and for her to have gotten back under the radar and to put herself out there like that I thought was um a uh risky play and but the rationale was great right it was like I can't my game can't afford either of these other people getting it and I think that's like that is a great survivor player right it's like I need like it's trying to assert control when there's so much randomness and but like still you're trying to like on the margin like control where the things are going so

to say like you know i don't want to do this it's bad for my game in some ways but like these two people getting something special is worse for my game so i need to on the margin admire it that yeah because there would have been plenty of people on podcasting like uh if you know genevieve goes to on goes on the journey and then comes back with on podcast saying like uh if you know genevieve goes to on goes on the journey and then comes back with something everybody's like how do you let genevieve go on the journey you can't let genevieve go on the journey yeah exactly everybody everybody else was kind of craving and let rachel just uh you know okay rachel you go for it yeah and that's great it's like not someone who's gonna like just like jump in there because like they

want the adventure like i'm here once in a lifetime it's like no i don't want the adventure but i'm going to do it because i have to like for the sake of stopping other people from doing it okay so she goes out there and gets goes on the journey and then has uh this amazing like rube goldberg torture device i think mike bloom called it like a saw uh device and uh really that was so incredible and jeff has a really great explanation on the on fire podcast of like how they put that together but that oh man masterful it was so so so cool like what like just like the tension of these things like yeah it's cool i think it was one of the coolest things they've ever done on survivor yeah i agree like super super neat as like a challenge and you know

it was kind of an interesting advantage i actually kind of thought the advantage was underpowered i normally were like i'm very pro underpowered advantages but like given where they are in the game and what this like crazy challenge was. I thought the advantage was kind of underpowered for that. Yes. I know for what she pulled off. Yeah. So she gets the block of, you have any thoughts on block of vote at the final?

I mean, I guess it could be crucial, especially that final seven vote where you often, you know, and then, but it's, it's expires at the final six. Right.

So she really, it was more important this week. It's the final eight. She could turn it into a final seven. Right, that's a good point. And you can play it in 76. So there's two even-numbered votes that you could turn into odd-numbered votes, potentially. Right, yeah.

That's a great point. But I mean, given that this is such a... And I wonder how much in advance they decide what the advantage should be. You know, like, is it reactive to the state of the game like do they want to put something in the game that's gonna have impact on what's actually happening or are they kind of like in advance they say well this is gonna be block a vote like whatever happens happens what would you do if you were a producer you would make it reactive right like because you would want to be able to you know yeah

you know i feel like that we don't ever really get you know jeff uh when he talks about the game and what they do uh that uh he always says that everything all the decisions are made far in advance and i don't even know from standard practices if they could change things but but also like you have like situations where maybe there's a lot of advantages in the game maybe there's all the idols have been played uh maybe like you just had a tribal council where all the idols came out or none of the idols have come out so i have to think that just from if you were going to make a good show you would need to keep things flexible right and and you know they'll they can never say that because then people oh it's rigged you're you know going for this person or you know even if they're just trying to like make a better game you know there's always gonna be someone to say you know this

yeah so anyway it was um a really exciting moment with rachel out there on the barge and then she comes back what do you think about rachel telling some of the people about what she got because again it's always like such a catch-22 of you go on the thing and then i feel it really feel like that uh for rachel uh she put some trust in a couple of people, Sue in particular, and tells them about what happens. Was that the right call? Yeah, I think you have to. If you don't fess up, and hopefully she has the paperwork, right? Because if you don't immediately tell people, they're going to be assuming the worst. People will always assume that you have much worse than you actually do. Like even like, I mean, again, this is about me, um, you know, on Cambodia, when I got my steel of advantage, um, you know,

and then, then I was sick, like violently sick. I think, I don't know what the timing was, like the next day or something, two days later. Like, and so I was like constantly leaving the shelter to be like violently sick. Like even Jeremy, you know, my friend and allies, like he got some secret stash and he's going off to like chow down and be warm. And like, you know, like people's minds when they don't know, even your allies' minds, they're going to go, what? Come with me. Join me.

Come see what's going on. Yeah, right. Exactly. Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That would have dispelled any, any, uh, you know, misinformation, but no, but you, your people's allies minds are going to go to the worst place possible. So I think you have to kind of say, especially when it's something benign, like a block of, like, here's what I have. And honestly, like there's, there's a rationale for just playing it because it's so kind of useless that having it in your pocket is worse for you, I think, than playing it. But I wonder if the fact that it is like kind of an underpowered advantage, is that does that play in Rachel's favor where she can come back and say,

hey, I stopped Genevieve and stopped Sam from getting this. And look, I only got this. It's only a block of vote. It's not. But I'm telling you, I have to share with you about what it is. So it's not like if if it was like an idol or something like that, then it's like, oh, she's a big threat. But like, oh, she could block a vote. Right. Yeah. I think that's right. But even so, like, I still think you don't want to be the one person out of five to be, oh, she's got a power, you know? And it was funny that, you know, she, there was this whole conversation with Sue where Sue's like, I really think sharing information

about advantages is a sign of trust. And this is how I know I can trust you is that you're willing to be upfront. And like Sue's got an idol that she hasn't told anybody about. You know, like what a hypocrisy. Yeah. The two of them. Yeah. All right.

So then she goes and then wins immunity as well, Rachel. Yeah. Great. Very fun immunity win. Like Kyle was Yeah. Great, very fine immunity win. Like Kyle was truly steps away from winning that immunity. Yeah. And ultimately Rachel ends up winning.

And then there's really not so much, you know, discussion of like a big move. It's really comes down to Kyle or Genevieve. I know there's been a lot of talk about, was this the right decision? Okay, which camp are you in? The team get out Genevieve or team. Get out Kyle. I'm team. Get out Kyle. I mean, like I don't. So, yeah, I mean, I, my attitude is you want to get out the people who are going to be the

hardest to get out in that order basically. And so Kyle is the person who could be hard to get out because he is winning immunities. Um, you know andy's logic of i know christian kind of broke down andy's numbers but i think like for me like the biggest flaw and i i i skated this on blue sky at christian you know the biggest flaw in andy's logic was not just you know the the confusion of this math formula but also the fact that for andy it was either like win or lose like oh, oh, Kyle won three and lost three. So he's got a 50% win ratio. But in two of those, and I don't remember all of them, like Kyle was right there.

So it was not like Kyle like lost. Kyle was like a very close second. So, you know, he's got like, he's always right in the hunt. That he won, he was third. Yeah, right, right. I mean, right mean right right exactly but um you know so i don't like i would want to get out the person who is going to be the most who might like stymie my plans later like more than the person who can't do that basically and of course like genevieve is like like scary but like everybody's spooky scary yeah yeah yeah so i am in the camp of i would keep kyle i

would want to get out genevieve because i feel like i'm more intimidated of the person if i'm in if i'm in the five okay um if i'm if i'm on the island i want to keep around genevieve but if i am in that group of five and they're trying to decide between Genevieve or Kyle, I'm going to keep Kyle around because I'm not afraid of Kyle flipping my group of five against me where I am afraid of that Genevieve being able to have the wherewithal to be able to pull numbers against me or, you know, come up with an idle play that's going to disrupt this group of five that I have. with an idle play that's going to disrupt this group of five that I have. But if you get to the point, if you don't vote out Kyle now, right, then you've only got Sam and Kyle left. If Kyle, it's reasonable to think that Kyle could win two immunities, meaning you're going to have to vote, vote out someone in the five before you want to. Um, if Kyle does that. Yeah. Cause also like the fewer people that are there, the better chance that Kyle has, right? Because there's fewer people competing against him. Yeah.

So, you know, you could flip a coin either way. I would be more afraid of like from the things that like I would be worried about trying to keep a group of five together. I think I'd be a little bit more worried of Genevieve weaseling her way into somebody's ear than Kyle going on this run this historic run and winning uh the most challenges in survivor history by far yeah so um next time what do you think is going to happen do you think that oh this i think it's i mean genevieve's time is yeah i mean i think we get genevieve out right and then and then they kind of like have to like figure out um i mean maybe if if they turn on the five like who is it you know who who do if sam and genevieve work to like figure out, I mean, maybe if, if they turn on the five, like, who is it, you know, who, who do, if, if Sam and Genevieve worked to like skew the vote, who do they,

who are they getting out? Right. Like, I just don't, can't even imagine who that would be. Like which, which of those five is the one to, is the first to go? Yeah. I think there's a couple of different options that I do wonder, and even though Andy was very much trying to get out Genevieve, you know, in the preview, they're talking about like a four women's alliance. Could Andy potentially get squirrelly as be recognizing like, hey, am I at the bottom of the five person alliance? I think that that's potentially one thought. I think also could Caroline start to get some ideas that Rachel is not actually the underdog that we thought she was? And potentially Caroline, who has been threatened of Rachel from earlier in the merge, maybe try to throw Rachel to the wolves?

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a very I mean, and it was interesting that even it was not just that Rachel, you know, got the advantage and won the challenge. She also was the person in the two final threes, right? Like there were, everybody was talking and there were two final threes being discussed. We saw Sue, Caron and Rachel final, like triple alliance. And we saw Tini and Rachel triple alliance. And the one, you know, unifying factor there is Rachel. So I actually think she's pretty well insulated,

you know, from that. But of course, whenever anyone's, you know, whenever anyone spikes, there's always a backlash to that. OK, Stephen, we've got some questions from people both here in the live chat and from the Facebook group. OK, how about Julie has a question. What are your thoughts around Caroline's strategy of enabling rachel to build her resume i i think she said that she's um a um a shield now and a target later is that what uh she's or do i have it backwards uh i don't remember but um that was the probably probably a shield now and a target later that makes more sense yeah i mean i guess like caroline's kind

of like laying the groundwork there for like rachel to be the target i still like my belief and i have been you know is that the order is again i'm always wrong um jenna is next then sam carolina five she gets i didn't think about i don't know someone on twitter said like she'll probably be idled out by rachel which makes a lot of sense to me and rachel loses fire and then we know the final okay yeah how about a question from caitlin who says uh do we think that rachel is doing idled out by Rachel, which makes a lot of sense to me. And Rachel loses fire, and then we know the final thing. Okay. How about a question from Caitlin, who says, do we think that Rachel is doing purposeful jury management at Tribal Council?

For two weeks, she's referenced the jury as power players at Tribal. Does this ego fluffing matter in the end? Oh, yeah. It totally matters. I mean, the jury, I mean, Cochran said this, you know, to me, a few times, you know, and it really influenced my thinking around the game, not, not my performance in the game, but my thinking around it, um, that like, you know, the jury just like perks up

when they hear people talking about themselves, right. That they're like, they want to hear about themselves and how they're influential. Cause like, they're all narcissists. We just all want to hear like, you know, how we affected the game, even though we're like stewing on the sidelines. So to say like, oh, these are like the important people. These are the powerful ones. We're the weak ones. You know, what are we even doing here? You know, like, yeah, I think that is absolutely it makes the jury feel connected to you. The thing that turns the jury off is when players walk in looking arrogant, looking like they're in control, dismissing the importance of the jury.

You know, that's so I definitely think that's Rachel doing that. I wonder if we could be headed towards a season like a Survivor 43, where we have the players that are on the jury really feeling like, hey, we were the people who ran this game. We were the power players, James, Noel, Cody, Jesse, Carla. And like, where, where are the people that, that ran this game? And you three over there are in the final three. And I wonder if there could be some type of like a punishment vote in the final three, if it ends up being, you know, could, could the person who like, could they just go off the wall? A person that has sort of like a, you know, medium resume feels like, Hey, I'm the best of the three. And they end up voting for say like a teeny

of like, Hey, we're just going with the person we liked. Yeah. I, I, that's what I think is going to happen. You know, is that this idea that like, you know, and I think it's a lot of the, you know, the forties have been just kind of like the person who's there, who's the best liked. Right. And, but you're right. I think 43 is a perfect parallel because, you know, so much of Gabler's even pitch, you know, even his explicit pitch was like, Hey, I was a part of all of your really powerful alliances, right? Like I was in the Baca boys, you know, I was in the, the other thing, whatever, whatever it was, you know, I love when you talk about the Baca boys. I, I, that really stuck with me. The Baca boys. Yeah. Um, the, uh, you know, but you know i love when you talk about the baka boys i i that really stuck with me the baka boys yeah um the uh you know but you know he was all he was saying like that's where i was i was there

with you guys you know as you guys were making your moves i was there too you know and that was you know cassidy was instead like cassidy was saying like well i was there making moves and here's my resume and like gabe was like no i was i was like partnering with you as we all made moves together and i i think you're right like the jury wants to reward for someone who makes them kind of feel powerful. And especially if they don't, um, you know, if they don't feel like any of the final three. And again, I do think that might be that where teeny shines in the end is that they are so well liked compared to someone, you know, and if they just have like a little bit on their resume, that is going to be enough for the jury to say, Hey, we really like teeny, you know, we don't particularly care for Sue and Andy. And so let's, let's give teeny the price.

I mean, to a certain degree, that's what happened with Maria, right? Last season, like Maria didn't want to say, call Charlie, like the winner, because it would, I mean, whatever, this is psycho analyzing someone who I've never met, but, um, you know, who like challenges my perceived position as the dominant player in this game. Yeah. So I wonder but uh you know who like challenges my perceived position as the dominant player in this game yeah so i i wonder if you know caroline is somebody who could get gets to the final three and has kind of like just like uh you know a medium resume and you know isn't looked at as one of the power players and feels like hey well like i did the most out of the like I did more than Andy and Teenie and Sue. And I'm here at the end. And it was like, hey, well, like, you know, vote for me. I did the most. And they're like, no, you you know, you hid behind shields.

We don't respect that. We're going to just go with the person that we like. I think that's a potential outcome of the season. That's that's a great point. Like even if they won't necessarily reward the person who did the most of the final three, they might just reward, you know, out of like, right. I think that's a great, that's a great point. Yeah. That's definitely 43. You sacrificed us. You hid behind our big threat levels the whole game. Like we're not awarding that. We're going to go with the person that we like. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the forties though, right? Like you just want to be the best liked person who happens to make it to the end based on

all the random stuff that happens along the way. I mean, it does seem like actually things are kind of turning towards a place like, right. We're seeing like slightly, you know, with like jam jam and D like, it does seem like there is room for a really strategic player to kind of like shape the course of events. I don't know. I kind of feel like that this season has been sort of like the most it's been where anybody who's deemed threatening is sort of like a very big target on their back. And everybody is sort of like very much trying to be under the radar and hiding. And, you know,

Hey, let's all gun for the biggest targets that are out there. I wonder if, if there's any adjustment that the show makes to try to, cause I think that they would probably be more in favor of more aggressive gameplay, especially when we get towards the latter stages of the game. Yeah. That's interesting.

Um, yeah. So you just talked about it on the on the podcast about you know a lot of the game is about like threat level management but i wonder is the threat level management so good that you know anybody who pops up to make any type of move is instantly deemed as somebody who needs to be uh very high up on the target list. Yeah, it's too much. I mean, it's like, it's impossible to play now. I mean, can you imagine this happening?

Win a challenge, like get an advantage. Like, okay, target, target, target, target. But that's what the game is now. And then, you know, it's kind of like something has to change. And I do think some, I mean, we've talked about this before, but some of it is just the structure of the game where it's like so chaotic that you just do not have an opportunity to actually exert control over the way the game exert control the lions need to get together one season

it needs to happen yeah but then like they're like split into like you know three tribes of of three and then like the lions get picked off you know it's just uh it's it's tough but i do think like towards the end game you're right like people are going to open up a little bit like that's the time like the final six is where you make your you know I do think like towards the end game, you're right. Like people are going to open up a little bit. Like that's the time. Like the final six is where you make your, you know, you do your like one thing. You do your one thing. That's the problem. It's not that voting out your ally is necessarily bad. It's just that voting them out of the final 10 is bad. You know, you vote them out of the final six. does it mean that the title quotes for the last few episodes have all been from Andy? I think that this is, uh, this came up on one of the patron calls, uh, recently, and I want to give a credit to, uh, I think it was Steven in the chat of who said, pointed out that the, uh, record I think is seven, uh, season titles from a player in a season. And then, uh, no, and then a ton of people, I think it was Boston Rob. I think a ton of players are tied with four, but Andy has now entered the

rarefied territory of five. Wow. Good for Andy. I mean, Andy gives great confessionals. Like, let's like, you know, he, I don't think that that is really, cause like, you know, I don't, I don't follow edgic itself anymore. I do like try to like look at the edit and like the story that is being told. Like I think, you know, I don't want to like get the edgic people mad. So I'm not going to say anything. But like to me, like I like to see, you know, my own feeling, you know, as someone who writes like what is the story that's being told and try to like analyze it. And I enjoy being wrong when I'm wrong. And I even enjoy being right even more when I'm right.

But I don't think like, you know, the episode title is not something that is really part of the story. That's kind of like more of like an inside baseball thing for like the really avid, you know, viewers and fans. So I don't think that's like, you know, they don't, they're not thinking that the normal viewer is, is looking at the episode titles. Like, you know, I don't know the episode titles most weeks. is looking at the episode titles. Like, you know, I don't know the episode titles most weeks. Yeah, I tend to know them right in the lead up to the episode, but I kind of feel like I wish that the episode titles,

I don't want them to be spoilery, but I kind of wish that they were like a little bit more relevant to what was going on. I think that this week's episode was called like Flipping the Wind Switch. Andy said it, but it had nothing to do with the outcome of the episode. And then last week's episode title was called Loyal to the Soil. It was just kind of like something that Andy said to Kyle, which was not really, you know, anything important. So I think we go for a cool sounding episode title names.

They really have very little relevance to like the actual story of the season. Yeah. And like most people are not thinking like, oh, you know, there's just no way to like correlate that story of the season. Yeah, and like most people are not thinking like, oh, you know, there's just no way to like correlate that, you know, and the story, you know, they do tell a story to make the winner seem satisfying, right, and I think like Jeff was very vocal in season 43 that a lot of people felt upset, not that Gabler won, I think there was that,

but that like they didn't, it didn't make sense to them that Gabler won. And I think as Jeff said, you know, we didn't do a good enough job of making it make sense for our viewers. So, you know, it is in their mandate to make the winner of the season make sense. So like over the course of the season,

they are going to tell a story about how someone wins the game. It's there. Steven, let me bring you a question from our Facebook group. Josh Kettles wants to know, I need Steven to weigh in on the great grammar debate of our time.

We're having a new sky. Oh, I was hoping I didn't have to weigh in. What is the plural of shot in the dark? Is it shot in the dark or shot in the darks? I mean, I'm going to defer to Nick Iadanza here because he is an actual English teacher and he has said it is shot in the darks. Now, I'm just going to, I'm not even going to have an opinion. My opinion is whatever Nick said.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that makes sense. Shot in the darks. I mean, it sounds very awkward. It's like, is it gin and tonics or gins and tonic?

It's gin and tonics, right? I'll have two gin and tonics. You'd look like a crazy person saying two gins and tonic. Yeah. What is there anything else that we talk about? That's a blank in the blank. I'll have two gin and tonics You'd look like a crazy person saying two gins and tonic Yeah Is there anything else that we talk about that's a blank in the blank? Jack in the box Jacks in the boxes

Jack in the boxes Two jacks in the box Yeah, put those jacks in the boxes over there How many jacks in the boxes are there in Los Angeles? You know how many jacks in the box are there in Los Angeles? Yeah, so it's plural Yeah, shot It's just how many jacks in the box are there in Los Angeles? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's plural. Yeah, shot, shot. It's just hard to say

shot in the dark. Yeah, it's a mouthful. It is a mouthful. But let's get everybody's shot in the dark. Like, I think put the plural on everybody's shot in the dark.

Miss, Nick on Blue Sky explains it, you know, the grammar for it. But, you know, he's an English teacher and a writer and you know uh i know it all i i know it alls no it alls yeah yeah okay all right uh let's let's

see um a question from stacy i have a feeling now uh that we're just waiting to see who the final who the third person will be in the final three with rachel and sue i think that andy is going to realize he is boxed in and we're going to see uh genevieve andy and sam go in order then there's a fire making challenge to determine if caroline or teeny is there too i mean are you feeling that rachel and sue are headed to the finals well i mean i feel like i called my shot in the dark here. Yes. So what does it remind me? So I think that the next two are Genevieve and Sam. I think it's probably Genevieve, Sam. And then I think probably Caroline is idled out at five or, you know, otherwise, I think Rachel loses fire and that Teenie beats Sue and Andy in the final.

I could be totally wrong. Like, but that's just. Andy, Teenie, Sue. I mean, I also see, I see a world where Rachel is the winner. Like Rachel could be being set up now as the winner. Yeah. Who's getting eviscerated by the jury? Is it Andy?

Andy. Yeah. I think it's Andy and maybe Sue to a lesser extent. Like maybe they're like, you know, Sue. I don't know, something about her age. Some joke about her age. So what do you think? You think it's like seven, one for Teenie one, like Caroline gives a like a sympathy vote to Sue and Andy zero vote finalist.

I definitely think Andy is our zero vote. I mean, it could be. It's probably. Yeah. I mean, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see who Caroline votes for.

That's actually an interesting question. OK. All right. Lydia, so can you reverse the group think in real time the perception of who's a threat and who's an underdog that's a that's a really good question it's hard it means so much of the game how it plays out and then who's awarded in the final three is based on perception and it's interesting you can see kind of andy bridling under that because like he's aware that he is not perceived to be a threat and he's like no i'm, I'm a threat. And he's like, in his confessionals,

he's like trying so hard to make the case. Why like, I am a threat. I'm the one who's got all the alliances. I'm the one who's like the swing vote. Look, look, I'm playing this amazing game. Nobody's recognizing it. And I have so much empathy for that because he does seem to be playing a pretty good game.

Of course, he has the comfort of nobody targeting him. It's a lot easier to play a really good game when nobody's targeting you, you know? Like when you're not like trying to stay ahead of the vote, it's easy to move between all the different alliances. But it's really hard to change people's perception of you. That's a really good question. Has anybody done that? Like in this like late stage of the game,

kind of flipped people's fundamental perception of them as a player. I feel like Marianne did that a little bit with like her kind of flipped people's fundamental perception of them as a player. I feel like Mary Ann did that a little bit with like her kind of final travel performance. She went from somebody who was not really considered to be a threat. And then at the very end, she was able to do it. But I feel like that maybe the closest to season is Rachel has kind of done that where she was sort of seen as like this,

like a threat who was somebody they have to watch out for to now she's back in the underdogs. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that, you know, for a Sam or for Genevieve, and I think that this really speaks to, um, something that I thought was so interesting that Genevieve's talked about how I don't want to make emotional connections with players. Like, I don't think that it's going to be a logical argument that gets Genevieve out of this situation. I think that for Genevieve, what she needs to do is start to work on cultivating some

of these like emotional connections with a few of these players to get them to see her differently, to potentially not see her as like the scary Terminator version of Genevieve. And if she can do that, I think she has a chance. But she's not going to be able to do that without making these emotional connections with people. I got to say, like, this is where I went wrong in Cambodia. And I've talked about this before where, you know, in token sheens, I had like such deep emotional connections with like, I thought everybody who played. And as a result, I had the, like the social capital to be able to betray those people, but it like really upset me. And just like Genevieve talking about Kishan, like I was really like upset by it.

And one of the reasons I didn't want to go back on Survivor was because like, just like, it was really hard as a human to become so deeply bonded to people and then to betray them. And when I went back, I kind of, I mean, I've talked about this before, but like Cochran, you know, I was all strategy, all strategy, all strategy. And I was like, great, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be all strategy all the time. And that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna be all strategy all the time and that's what i was and as a result i didn't really bond with anybody and as a result i didn't have like when it came down to the i didn't have the social capital to like get myself out of these tough situations so you have to kind of like that's the real um hard part of this game is like you can't

keep hold it back you have to form these deep bonds with people in order to have the ability to play the game in order for them to trust you in order for like, you have to like build deep trust in order to blindside people. Otherwise the blind side never works. And like, that's like, what's so like deadly and devious about this game. Very few people are able to do it without forming those social connections. And, you know, it is like a little bit of like a sociopathic tendency for people to be able to do that. I think that Cochran really kind of benefited from, you know, having like a Dawn out there where Dawn is also like overdoing like the social connections with people.

So they're sort of like taxed out. So they're not looking for as much from cochran in that i also think that this is something that you know when andy was talking about like how great it is like oh we're blindsiding annika this is hella fun like i i do kind of feel like and tell me if you think this is crazy that it's a little bit of like a younger person's game of that i'm going to just like betray trust and like just lie to people on TV. It's fun. It's all a game. And I do feel like that the players who have like are a little bit older, I think struggle with that a lot more. Yeah, that's interesting. That's a, that's a, that's a good call. I mean, I've always thought that it behooved you to be a parent on survivor because you have this deep, you know, first of all, it's like, gosh, what a vacation. You know, like when I was a single person, like Survivor did not feel like a vacation.

Now, my gosh, I can't even imagine. But yeah, I think you're right, though, that like kind of like being a little older and having would make it a little bit more emotionally challenging. Yeah. I'm trying to think of like the older players that were really like just lying and playing in people's faces. I'm sure that it happens in Survivor history, but I kind of feel like that it tends to be more younger people that tend to be in that role on Survivor. Yeah, that's very true. Okay. All right. Steve, why don't we leave it there for this week until we get back together and talk about it.

Kelly says Russell. Yeah, I'm Russell's built different. Yeah. How old was Russell when he first played? Like, you know, now it's like 30s. Yeah. Maybe like maybe like early 30s, 35 or something like that. Yeah.

So, you know. All right. So here's what our schedule is going to be for the rest of the week. I'm going to get together with the Purple Pants badass, Bryce Isaiah on, yes, yeah, on Monday

for Club Condo. Me and Bryce are going to be talking about everything from this episode and anything else that comes up on social media

between now and then. Then on Wednesday, we have a special episode where I'm going to be in Houston, Texas. You could still be there with us in person, robertwebsite.com slash Houston, for all of the events going on there in Houston this week. But live after the episode, we are going to have Shannon Goss and Dr. Evy Jagoda after the episode to break it all down. And then I will have a special video of our show from Houston coming up on Thursday. And then we'll bring you a Survivor Know-It-Alls on Friday. So it's going to be another jam-packed week as we get to the final seven.

Wow. Well, hopefully the next two votes are not just a pagonging of the top dogs. I don't think so. I really don't think it will be. I hope you're right. I would like to be wrong about my prediction because it feels a little bit too... And I will say that almost every season has

had a surprising and very fun ending. So I hope my read is wrong because it feels a little bit too neat, and that's often where I get into fun ending. So like, I hope my read is wrong because it feels a little bit too neat and that's often where I get into trouble anyway. So hopefully I'm wrong. Okay. All right. So Stephen Fischbeck, enjoy the rest of your time with the family.

Anything you want to tell people to check out? Yeah. Can I plug another podcast? Is that allowed? Yeah, that's fine. I just want to like, you know, give a shout out, talking, you know, Thanksgiving, talking about all the things I'm thankful for. Um, I listened to the podcast sleep with me. I'm a chronic insomniac. Oh, scooter, scooter. Um, and he has been, um, you know, it's been really, really helpful to me as, as someone, you know, to get through the nights and, you know, he's a survivor fan. to get through the nights. You know, he's a Survivor fan.

Well, I was going to say, not only is he a huge Survivor fan, he's a huge R-Hab fan. And he has an episode just talking about what an influence you are on his podcast. There's a whole episode of Sleep With Me, which I did not find actually like, that to me, I could not sleep through

because normally like his episodes put me straight to sleep. When he's actually talking about you and me, like I was a little too engaged. The whole premise is he tells an interesting story and it bores you to sleep when he's actually talking about you and me. Like I couldn't, I was a little too engaged. There's all the whole premise is he tells an interesting story and it bores you to sleep. Um, and it's like, it's been like a real bomb to me. Um, and, and when I've had some like rough nights, so, um, yeah, it's, um, it's been great. And I wanted to like, you know, show my appreciation to him, you know, for, for all the, you know, the help he's given me throughout many dark nights by, by shouting him out and saying, if you, if you've got that problem, um, you know,

I know some people listen to you, you know, too, as, as a, you know, to put help with them to sleep. Um, but, but, uh, I don't mind it. I don't mind. Yeah, that's fine. Um, but, but, uh, yeah. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's a good podcast too. And probably the people listening to this are our podcast listeners. Yeah. So, all right. So check out Sleep With Me, especially if you're having trouble at nighttime. Don't listen to it while you're driving. And of course, make sure for all things Survivor, we've got a lot of other stuff coming in the feeds. Make sure you're subscribed at WeKnowSurvivor.com.

Check out my patron Q&A from earlier today, two and a half hours of questions all about this episode. So be on the lookout for that. And then also, we've got lots of uh cool Black Friday stuff going on for patreon so check it out robinsweb.com patron thank you so much for joining us take care everybody have a good one bye The season when our champions Do the test Can you cover every show Post game, no, we're all the club condos

Only one thing you can really know So we say Go, go, process to be known You are the best that we know Just grab your mic and we go wild This is your time