RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 47 Ep 7

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

This week, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 47 episode 7.

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Like they've won the game a million times Well, actually, they didn't really win the game at all Surviving no game at all. Survivor knows it all. Survivor knows it all. Steve and I rock without a doubt. Got the game all figured out. They know it all. They know it all. And they're back again.

Rob and Steven here after episode seven. Steven, how are you? Rob, this is the craziest thing. I just got this like 20 minutes ago in my office. Someone came and handed me this paper. And it's safety without podcasting. So I'm going to be leaving.ing so i'm gonna leave now come back come back come back you're on your own uh okay um this is uh no i was just kidding

yeah yeah okay i meant to be today in costume shoot i meant today to do stay in costume i forgot yes okay all right what was with your costume for halloween i put a little there's something I meant to do today in costume Shoot I meant today to do today in costume I forgot Yes okay alright What's your costume for Halloween I put a little orange in it And do a costume No but I mean like tonight are you going trick or treating with the family Yeah we're going trick or treating Yeah trick or treating here and this is like a regional thing

Like when I was a kid in New York I used to go trick or treating after school Different parts of the country no you go trick or treating On a different day, different time. Yeah, so no trick-or-treating here until after 6 o'clock. Huh, okay. Yeah, we're going about that time, 5.30. Mm-hmm, yeah.

So, nice day here. Do you guys have a... We've got a Iron Man. We've got a Wolverine. My son wanted to be Deadpool. We said, that's a little... You can't be Deadpool. Why? Deadpool is a little thing. You can't be Deadpool. Why? Deadpool is a little R-rated.

Oh, okay. But he wouldn't be R-rated playing Deadpool. Yeah, but I think that's not inappropriate. Okay. You know. And then Nicole and I are going to be some Price is Right contestants. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I'm not like you. I don't want face paint. I don't want like a wig

or anything like that. So I said, okay, keep it simple. Keep it simple. I'm not like you. I don't want face paint. I don't want like a wig or anything like that. So I said, OK, keep it simple. Keep it simple. I love to go. I used to go. Yeah. We're going as the Paw Patrol. Oh, which who are you? Well, so I'm going to be Chase. Oh, you're on the case. Yeah, I'm on the case. Margo, my older daughter is Sky. Yeah. And my younger daughter, Prue, will be Marshall. Oh, Marshall. Oh, Avalanche. It's like extended Paw Patrol.

Well, you know, the Paw Patrol, they don't do a great job with very inclusive of a lot of the female dogs. And I'm not going to say that. This is a 2 o'clock podcast. I'm not going to call them what, you know, I've heard them described as. It's true that the two, like, add-ons are Liberty and Avalanche. Oh, I didn heard them described as. It's true that the two add-ons are Liberty and Avalanche Oh, I didn't know about Liberty Liberty is another add-on since my kids were young. Yeah, yeah

She's like a big city dog and then and my wife will be Ryder, the leader of the team Ryder, okay Very gender-bending all over the place Well well we hadn't really it was hard to find adult costumes for the paw patrol yeah there's only like two there's like chase and

there's like sky but my daughter was already sky so no rubble they don't have an adult rubble we would have done the adult rubble yeah all right i think my wife was happy that she just has to wear a vest she wears a vest and she's like i'm writer okay all right so we uh talked about the uh civic servant dogs so cross that off the list and then a lot more shots at the crib yeah and we got a lot more to break down here today hard-hitting analysis coming to you from uh the survivor know-it-alls where last night steven we saw the tribes divided once again i think this is so interesting this is three episodes in a row that we get everybody together in a in a group and then we say okay now split up it's like a scooby-doo episode every week all right hey i got an idea let's split up again yeah it was pretty annoying i have to say and

we'll talk more about the whole like twists versus twists yeah as it goes on but i will say like the start of the episode made it so compelling to see people kind of assembling their groups like andy approaches saul and he brings in genevieve and then you also have like the women talking about like their the possibility of women's alliance at this point feels a little bit like a tease. It's the delicate dance. It's where the, that we're flirting with the merge. Uh, it's like, uh,

we're going to tease you with it, but not yet. Not yet. And like, and then, and then you're like, okay, I can't wait to see these tribal dynamics play out.

Like everyone's kind of like getting there, like which, which like net network of, of connections is gonna, uh, you know, win the day? And then it turns out to just be this sort of like randomness upon randomness.

Teenie referred to eating the men as part of her strategy. And I wanted to know, are they learning their strategy from Marianne Oketch? Oh, OK. That was not what I thought you were going to say. And perhaps, perhaps. oh okay that was not what i thought you were gonna say and um perhaps perhaps she famously has eaten you when she fills in for you on the podcast but just to uh reset had a interview with tiana earlier today uh you can check that out as well and i had a great recap of the episode with katora as well uh she was very fun after the episode last night. We had a lot of good

talk about this. She has lived through this split tribal council twist in the new era. So she had some good insight about that. But Stephen, I guess let me start with you had a semi-viral tweet. Oh, which one? Yes. Okay. Wow. What a humble brag. Okay. So this tweet you posted and I was interested to see because I looked at it. I don't follow the metrics, Rob. I'm just putting the pure stuff out there. Well, you had over a hundred comments on a tweet. Whereas like, I thought I had a great tweet last night. Oh no, you're looking great. You're always getting like lots of retweets. Not a lot of comments like I like, but I guess you opened up a discussion. And so this was the

tweet, the question you asked was last night's survivor, a thrilling example of how the game's twists can have heartbreaking payoff or yet more proof that modern survivors advantage, heavy randomness saps the strategic essence of the series. Please sound off so I can steal your ideas for the know-it-alls. Now you did not do a good job stealing the ideas because you said- Not yet. I haven't had a chance. You're calling me out before I can steal people's ideas. Yeah. Okay.

So I think this is a good place to start our discussion about the twists and how they affected things. Because I guess I'll open the discussion of that. I thought that it was so poetic and kind of beautiful. Like, yes, you could say that Tiana got split screwed, but I mean, it would have been a travesty if Rachel went home in this episode with all due respect to Tiana, who seems like a wonderful person. But this was a little bit, Akiva, I watched a movie, a spooky movie called Final Destination. And this was a little bit like Tiana was on the ill-fated plane.

And then she got to the merge and got off the plane. And it was like, you can't cheat death. And Destiny caught up with Tiana. She was probably going to be the next person voted out of Tuku, and somehow the survivor gods conspired to give us this tribal council where the entire Tuku

tribe has a pre-merge tribal council. All these other tribes went to two tribal councils before the merge. Tuku ends up going to their second tribal council. That's a really good point. But it comes after the merge. Everything is in balance. Yeah, that is really good. Final final destination is a great parallel to it you know like uh i thought that was uh that was really well said rob that is interesting yeah yeah um i did and it's

true you know rachel would have been horrifically swap screwed by that twist it would have been very frustrating i don't like this at all i mean i you I, you know, I was mad when Matt Blankenship got voted out in season 43? Four. 44, 44. Thank you. I can't remember the numbers. I still can't. Jam Jam season.

When season... It was Jam Jam that survived. That's right. But it was still, it was still a frustrating thing where he was in this, like both of them, those guys were in these

great positions in the game. You know, they had their sort of like networks of alliances. Nobody was targeting targeting them then they just get this extremely unfortunate like roll of the dice and like all of the stuff they had been working towards for the past you know three days or however many days it's been a new era survivor um is is out the window and they've and they're just like screwed by the swap yeah it was nice to see rachel um escape and it is true that in this situation t Tiana was probably the one going home. I guess I didn't like the sense that, like, she couldn't do anything about it.

You know, like, she didn't have time to, like, work. And maybe that work would have gone, led to nothing, right? But the fact that she had, you know, five minutes at tribal council instead of a day of actually knowing the stakes of the situation she was in, it just kind of felt like, meh, like random and haphazard. of actually knowing the stakes of the situation she was in, it just kind of felt like, meh, like random and haphazard. Like, why do this when all we as the fandom want to see are those 12 players, like, working against each other and together with each other to assemble their alliances? Like, why do this?

On the other hand. Yes, okay, go ahead. It was very compelling. It was like really tense, compelling television. I didn't really have so much of an issue with this. I mean, I do feel like that we could get into a philosophical discussion of, is this what Survivor should be? But, you know, Jeff talked about on the On Fire podcast about how they really do love this idea of the random draw and how, you know, you could be feeling like you've got everything set up and circumstances could break away where you ultimately get into put into a bad position

now for tiana i feel like that why is that good is that the positive for jeff like to me that seems like exactly the things you should be working against that there were there were like a lot of it wasn't like okay everybody stick your hand in a bag tiana pulled out a rock and then she went home i i think that you know there had been what, 15 days of gameplay leading up to this point. And Tiana made mistakes along the way. And I'm sure David Bloomberg will chronicle them all this weekend with Jessica Lewis. But leading up to this point, I think that there were a lot of outs for Tiana in terms of like things that could have had could have happened before that time, even including like winning the immunity challenge or uh you know having more

allies in her this was like had rachel been in this spot like what is rachel supposed to do she doesn't even know these people but tiana had been in the in the game for two weeks with these people and uh you know there was nothing that she could do potentially to crack uh this alliance but it wasn't like that these were strangers but she did did the thing she needed to do, which was survive to the merge, right? Like in classically Survivor, like, hey, I made it to the merge. Now I like whatever damage I've done on my original tribe, now I can make new

groups and new alliances. And like the fact that you're just like shunted back randomly. Didn't make enough of an impression on Saul that there was this deus ex machina element where that, you know, had she been able to impress upon Saul that there was this deus ex machina element where that you know had she been able to impress upon Saul that I was going to be the person that like uh really help help me out uh send me out send me home I'm interested if she had accurately read her uh her position

correctly at Tuku then I think she could have like like you know let Saul know hey I'm at the bottom here and Saul would have seen though if I send Rachel, my friend Tiana is going to go home. Cause Tiana should have known that, you know, her fate in the game would be determined by this like random twist. And then this advantage is going to be in the game that nobody's ever seen before. Like, why did Tiana not play it? But like plan for that. Steven, somebody has to go home, uh, that, you know, like, uh, uh it was it wasn't a great you know thing for tiana but it wasn't like a travesty of justice the only thing i the thing i don't like the most i mean first of all like i just generally i don't like the split the split tribes you know we all want

only one person went out true but you know we want to see the dynamics play out and like the dynamics are really interesting and they're showing us they're interesting. I want to see that play out. I did enjoy the episode. So like I can't like I wasn't like bored. You know, I was like and I was like moved by what happened to Tiana. Like I had an emotional reaction. So in that respect, like I felt like it enriched my life in the sense that like intense emotional reactions, you know, are a great enriching part of our human experience. are a great enriching part of of our human experience but um i there was like it wasn't like rachel got the advantage it was like this thing that like fell out of the sky it's exactly what you said you know it was this thing that nobody had seen before that's like literally like saul picks up because it's an urn right next to him on reward he gives it to like the one person he reasonably going to give it to i mean he's not come on he's not going to give this like of course he's going to give it to the one mean, he's not, come on. He's not going to even give this like, of course he's going to give it to the one. There wasn't that much decision making.

It's not like he had some like mastermind move. It's just going to be good or bad for Saul. We have no idea. Saul has no idea. He was like, ah, this will be fun. Yeah. I mean, and it makes sense. You want them to turn on each other in this like heightened moment.

Like that's a good move generally. So he made the right choice, but it wasn't like a tricky choice. You know, I feel like Heidi had a tricky choice you know i felt like heidi had more like you know when she kind of had was in the uh and it was and the fact that saul got to do it secretly which was obviously very fun television um but it was like this like superpower that like rachel got out of nowhere if rachel had played an idol like you know which is something that the players know about or even the shot in the dark that they know about and then suddenly they have to scramble it's like okay like i came into this situation with information that i could prepare for to make

an informed decision like some like magic arrow being shot from out of the sky and like piercing tiana in the heart like that's not something you can prepare for but i don't think that's what happened you know she sort of like she dodged a bullet that she thought she got to the merge uh it's like okay good and honestly i don't think she ever was accurately aware of what her position was at you know she sort of dodged a bullet in the fact that they you know have this merge earlier in the game in the you know in in the new era so she sort of like she got lucky there and she got unlucky here i mean i believe it was was Jerry Manthe who said, whoever said survivor is fair and it's not, and people get bad breaks. And I think you have to just be able to, you know, okay, these are, I've got Delta a very bad hand here and I do not,

you know, have the positioning to recover from this. Yeah. I mean, I actually think I was more annoyed when Matt Blankenship went out because it seemed like he was in a really good spot and like it was it just felt like there's like random unfair thing happened to him and like he didn't i mean with him there was also the whole thing where he didn't even have his bag and so he couldn't like play his he didn't have his bag and he had a very public uh relationship with franny that people want to uh break up well that but that you can blame him for but like some of the other stuff that felt like a little more random was was um not his fault but like that's just in general you know and we're still like arguing the same central argument right which is that like survivor as it at its inception was this game where you kind of could make plans and

you could try to play what kim spradlin called like a beautiful strategic game you You know, I don't know if she said that in like, in the, in the show or like in an exit, but like, or something that really a letter to you. Yeah. She was talking about how she wanted to play like a beautiful strategic game. And that's just not what it is anymore. Right. There's a lot more randomness and like, it's just like, obviously there's a balance. The randomness does add drama. But it would have been nice to have like the drama of these actual strategic

relationships pay off just once yeah i mean what what relationship did you want to see pay off just what was all these things that were happening you know like could the women's alliance like pull it out after you know many seasons of talk of it still may right but like they're down one woman you know it's a little bit harder um and you know they are and and obviously like you know they just saw caroline and sue you know side with gabe over tiana um so i don't know like or like what happens what's gonna happen with with andy and and and so on and again i'm sure that will go with that no i know but like that's that was these were the dynamics that were like being assembled and you know you kind of want to see

them play out yeah with all due respect to tiana she did not seem as again we're watching an edited show she did not seem like that she was like a major player in what was going on she seemed like that she was sort of like uh the fifth wheel ofuku, who was sort of at the bottom of that alliance, didn't really realize that could have been a factor, you know, had the women's alliance taken root. I just don't know if Caroline and Sue are ever going to be on board for this women's alliance as long as they still have Gabe as an ally

and why they would necessarily like give up that position. We saw in Survivor 45 that, oh, there was talk of a women's alliance, but it was like for Dee and for Julie, they were never so high on doing the women's alliance because they had a good thing going with Austin and Drew. Yeah, I mean, to play devil's advocate about Tiana's position in the game. Like, yes, we didn't see her having a great position in the game. But also she was the last pre-juror. You know, she went out in this sort of like random thing.

Like we were never going to see all like her whole strategic web because of this random way she went out so there's sort of like an ex post facto element to it where if tiana made it far we'd know more about her like you know did we did did we not see tiana strategic game because it wasn't there or did we not see she on a strategic game because she went out in a sort of random haphazard thing yeah and the part that we did see was a lot of her trying to throw Gabe under the bus in like very like public demonstrative ways, which all like got back to Gabe. So it wasn't it doesn't I don't feel like that she was on the right path to begin with. Yeah. Look, I mean, I agree with you. And I like your you know, the fact that it was the two group altogether kind of makes it feel less bad. You know, if there was another random person who had gotten swap screwed, like the thing that bothered me the most was the fact that they couldn't really play out the strategy of it, you know, with full information. You know, they couldn't have this five person, you know, ten a ten.

But the fact was that had been played out. And that's what Gabe said. Like, think about this is basically we're in a pre-merge travel council like think about our relationships and our plans then and that's probably about how it played out so it was like to your point like these it did matter like what had happened and it wasn't just a kind of like random thing in the way that we're jam jam and matt felt like oh these two guys are just screwed randomly. Like Tiana's game up to that point did end up being decisive in her ouster. So like, I'm arguing aggressively against it, but partially because you're arguing for it.

And I mean, no, but I mean, like I think it's interesting to like hear both sides like express. I did not have as big, like in the moment I was like, wow, this is like crazy. And I'm so engaged. Oh no, this like heartbreaking moment for Tiana. And then after the fact,

when I saw some of the fan, like the really negative fan reaction to it, I was like, yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Yeah, it heartbreaking moment for tiana and then after the fact when i saw some of the fan like the really negative fan reaction to it i was like yeah that's a great point that's a great point yeah and it was heartbreaking for tiana uh that you know she really was uh you know very emotional about it i couldn't totally understand why and it was such a betrayal uh for her because and we saw that she did not see where you know that she was kind of being strung along from the tk vote uh that there was this women's alliance and that she was part of it. And the women were working together and Gabe was at the bottom. And then so to have that whole rug pulled out from under her, this wasn't just a one day thing.

This is, you know, she was being, you know, fed a lot of misinformation for probably 10 or 11 days in the game. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a that's a very good point. And it was interesting that she was ready to turn on Gabe. You know, she was not immediately going to sacrifice Rachel. Um, and Carolyn made some Carolyn or Caroline, Caroline, Caroline made some great points, you know, to her about, you know, we, we, you know, it's now is now is et cetera. Yes. Okay. Let me, okay. How about this? I'll flip it around. Okay. I'll give you my biggest complaint about the episode last night. Yeah. Okay. I thought that the entire first, uh, like there were like two acts in the,

or in the tribal council, there was the pre Rachel leaving and then post Rachel leaving the pre Rachel tribal council was just like one big whole song and dance for nothing. Yeah. Like we didn't, we didn't need any of that. And I do wonder, okay, and there's two reasons. One, we, the audience, we know that, okay,

probably something is going to happen. The advantage is going to come. I like that they didn't show us where the advantage was going to go. I thought that that was a very fun way to do it. But it got me thinking about pre-merged tribal councils versus tribal councils with a jury. And you and I have been very positive on the tribal councils this season.

Are we more likely to get some juice in a tribal council that doesn't have people watching it than opposed to a tribal council that has an audience where it's like very performative now? Yeah, that's a really good point that's a very good point everyone is now sort of like jockeying to like show their position in the jury but they don't want to be too abrasive and they don't want to say like hey we got to stay keep our numbers we got to say sorry rachel's we gotta be too strong it's like they've got it like

they're spinning for an audience of the whole rest of the tribe of what they're planning on doing tonight of like well you know we want to keep numbers, but we don't really want to keep our numbers. So, you know, Rachel's really got a shot here tonight because we don't want, but they don't want to say like, we don't want to be seen as five. So it was like a lot of like double speak. And it just got me thinking like, are pre-merge tribal councils better than post-merge tribal councils? That's interesting.

I mean, I think, I mean, you mean in terms of like the banter, in terms of the, like, are we more likely to get honest answers from players in the pre-merge than post-merge tribal councils? That's very interesting. And in post-merge, to your point, like with a bigger tribe, like there's a lot more, you know, there's obviously the audience of the jury, but then there's also the audience of like the rest of the tribe who like you can't really out your alliance to. And I don't have any evidence to support this this theory either way but i just think that we're more

likely to like hear honesty at a pre-merge tribal council yeah um that that's that's a good point we'll find out let's let's keep let's keep a sharp eye on keep tabs on that okay all right let's talk a little bit about caroline because I think that Caroline had a very good night. Yeah, she I thought she played really exceptionally, you know, fishy for Caroline. Let's lead with that. She you know, first of all, she when when when Tiana initially came to her about about voting out Gabe, you know, she was mad. She managed to convince Tiana that it was the wrong choice. Right. Yeah. Using, you know, using Tiana's logic of, hey, if there's five of us going into the merge together, like we are going to be a big target, but if we turn on each other, you know, that will be, um, you know, seen as like a weaker, too cool Alliance, you know,

Caroline made the argument that yes, but they're not going to be coming after us. Like we are not going to be the top of that pecking order. And we have some, some insulation with, with Gabe and Kyle. Um, and then, you know, so I think she was able to kind of like keep everybody happy. And then when it was time to make a choice, you know, I think she made the tough, but obviously correct decision and seemed to be the one unless, I mean, obviously it's hard to know exactly what convinced Kyle, but I got the sense that she was the one who convinced Kyle, right?

Like Kyle was when it came to her. It's like, you know, said, you know, Tiana has been totally upfront with us. And leaving that conversation, which we never saw the result of, like then Kyle ends up voting for Tiana as well. I thought Kyle was, did a good job of not being, he was definitely closer with Tiana. And he did a good job of not writing Gabe's name down just to, like, loyalty to the person who was going out of the game. So I thought he did a good job with that. I had wondered this, Stephen,

and this is where I do tend to get myself into trouble in my analysis, that do you think any of Caroline's decision at Tribal Council was theater for the people who were sitting there watching this Tribal Council. Right. She wanted to show to. I don't know. That's a that's a good question. I mean, she seemed to be based on my, you know, totally amateur and, you know, read of 30 seconds of footage. Right. Less than 30 seconds of footage. She seemed like legitimately upset.

I mean, I think that had to be really hard i mean you got tiana weeping there you know saying over and over again like please strategically isn't this an easy decision like she was never voting out gabe in that spot right yeah i don't know though because again it's like this ex post facto element where like we see we have been told this story of sue caroline and gabe as a trio because like maybe because they're the trio that emerges from this, you know, I mean, and we haven't seen what, you know, Caroline's heart is. I'm sure she also feels some connection to Tiana. I mean, she was the person that Tiana went to, right, with this plan, you know, and it's like every alliance on Survivor is sort of like a network of like vibes and valences, you know, where it's not like so concrete. And I'm sure for Caroline,

like Tiana was one of her options and one of her, you know, paths forward. And then to like sever that is obviously difficult, especially when you know the person behind it. I loved what she said about big, smart moves. Uh, it was very like Sophie ask if Caroline goes on to win the season, put that in her winter montage, not that we do that anymore, but the idea of big, smart moves, uh, is, you know, uh, you know, something that, you know, we talk about a lot. Steven, is there a strategy in getting other folks to make big, dumb moves? Yeah, maybe so, but you know, I don't know. As a player who likes control, like, I would not want people making big anything moves. You know, you want people making, like, very rational, very, very like straightforward moves according to their obvious self-interest, not being like,

not wanting to blow up the game for their resume, not voting out their best friend, you know, just, just play smart so that I can like play slightly smarter. Yeah. Um, the, the, uh, this is interesting in the, in the chat. Um, Kendall says, should Kyle have still voted Gabe? Because then there's like suggest some dissension in the group. Hmm. That's interesting. I just don't think that Kyle is like, I think that's one level beyond like where Kyle is playing the game of like,

unless like somebody says, with all due respect to Kyle, like I think that he's sort of like he's playing like a loyal game. I don't think that he's necessarily gonna like play the i'm going to i'm in your head of like you think that i'm now turning on gabe but i'm really still with gabe but i'm gonna like throw the vote out there to make you think that i'm not actually doing what i'm doing yeah um yeah i mean but you know caroline but i like the the thought yeah you know if he if he's like let's let's vote let's vote out you know gabe she could have been like yeah okay okay yeah that would have been a little bit that's that's

tricky even for her because then like he feels like he's been you know strung out so yeah strung out left out to dry left out to dry what do you think about kyle uh having won two individual immunities but against that the first one was only against a small field of only, what, seven people in the first immunity that he won. And then this one, he came in third in this challenge and wins immunity. And is he getting a raw deal in that he is being seen as this big comp beast, but he's only beating out a couple people? Yeah, I saw Dalton asking, what does Genevieve like being seen as like this big uh comp beast but he's only beating out a couple people yeah i saw

dalton asking you know what's the do do um what is it genevieve and um teeny are they did they do they get credit for that no i don't think they do and i and i responded to dalton's tweet that i actually thought that for genevieve and teeny this is like a steal for them of yeah they get the safety they get the barbecue and they don't have to wear the necklace of saying like, Oh, comp beast. Yeah. Do people, people, I mean, I guess you're right. I guess like that's sort of like they're subtextually for the, for the contestants. I, yeah, I feel like I would, as an observer, as someone with eyes, I would be able to say like, okay, those two people did better than that one. Yeah. But I don't know. They have a short memory. I, it's the kind of thing we'd have to ask the player in terms of like these like narratives take hold and then there's nothing you can do to shake them.

Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, especially with two in a row, you're right. And Genevieve had just found the advantage where she was sort of like standing out and different than the group on the last one. And so to have that, and then, you know, for her to then be the person who wins this challenge, like, I definitely think it could be a problem for genevieve yeah that's very interesting okay um yeah let me let's talk about where the episode started and the thing that got you very excited about andy and he has that conversation with now i saw you taking a victory lap uh when you saw the sneak preview of uh that saw coming to andy to explain that can you can you explain uh that yeah so last that. Can you explain that? Yeah.

So last week I said, you know, that it was really bad strategy for Sam to be so vocal with Saul about targeting, you know, casting another vote on Andy. A lot of people took umbrage with my perspective there. I think a lot of people were confusing the conversation in the shelter

between Sam and Saul with the conversation at the mergatory feast where Sue shows out, throws out Andy's name and Sam kind of like co-signs it. And they're like, what could have Sam have said in that moment? And I was like, no, but I wasn't talking about that moment. There's multiple moments on the show. It's an hour and a half long show. There's not just one moment. But, but so what I was,

the moment that I had said was a mistake for, for Sam was in the shelter when saul was like well you know i got looks like it you know they're coming like it looks like rome wants me and then sam is the one who's like you've got to put another vote on andy you know and i thought that was a mistake to be so vocal about it there for sam and especially when he could have yeah maybe then like either said someone else's name or just just not said anything just not said anything because to him if saul goes home that's better than if if Andy goes home at least from what we've seen because Andy is an ally of his and a very loyal ally of his yeah so okay I'll do devil's advocate on this guys I did go I did watch that uh line

back and I thought it was interesting I paid uh extra attention to it so I think that Sam says basically like hey like I think you should write down Andy's name because he said to Saul, you know, I'm more comfortable keeping you in the game than him, which I felt like that. OK, sure. If that is face value, that's probably that's probably bad. But is Sam just blowing smoke that they're going to tell Saul anyway to write down Andy's name like the die is already cast on that, is Sam trying to, you know, puff up his relationship with Saul to some degree to make Saul feeling really good about Sam moving forward out of this. Now, what Sam did not foresee was that Andy was going to feel some type of way about this and start asking Saul, what the hell, guys, about Saul, why did you write my name down and then Saul would instantly give up Sam but from Sam's perspective is he trying to uh is this he maybe just trying to uh uh you know

foster this relationship with Saul listen if you're the devil's advocate the devil needs new representation oh like that hey um the no because like if your point is that sam like didn't think you know first if sam didn't know it was a bad idea to put out his close ally's name as the decoy boot or the you know the the second target like and therefore he should be excused no that's exactly what sam did wrong the thing you're saying that sam didn't know like that's what he did wrong like you should not put out your ally's name as the not even the decoy target but like the the second target like and and that's that's my whole objection to to what to what he was what he did which is that he like if andy is there which they have every reason to think is going

to be the case you know now saul has receipts and he has like hey these are the people and of course andy's going to want to know why was it my name? Who told you my name? Uh, this, you know, and then of course, like Saul is going to be able to say, it was Sam who told me your name. Like Sam doesn't need to put himself in that position. He doesn't need to have that conversation with Saul. You know, like he doesn't need to say Andy's name. He can say nothing. He can be like, Oh, ask Sue. She was, she had some interesting ideas. You know, like he doesn't need to be the guy putting Andy's name forward so definitively. And, you know, because the decoy boot or the second target is always going to be like, why me? And Andy phrased it perfectly.

You know, he said, you know, OK, I get like you didn't want to be the one sent home, but like, why my name of any other name? And that was exactly my point last week, which is like, why put Andy's name out there? Like, just because Sue said it, just because he was sort of like the, the known target, but like, you don't need to say anything, Sam. Like you don't, you don't need to enter into that, you know, relationship. Like just, just be like, you know, I don't know, Saul, what are you thinking? You're like, you know? Um, and so anyway, like this week, don't write my name down. Yeah. Yeah. Um, when Andy says like, Hey, why did you put my name down? Saul does have that receipt where he goes, you know, says like, hey, it was it was Sam. And, you know, that resonates for Andy, because I do think, you know, even if we've seen Sam repeatedly, sort of like semi pull the wool over Andy's eyes.

People know people have the vibe and Andy's got the vibe that, you know, something's not quite right with that relationship. And so when Saul says that, like that feels true for Andy and then Andy, you know, you's not quite right with that relationship. And so when Saul says that, like that feels true for Andy. And then Andy, you know, you're more mad when your allies betray you than when your enemies target you. And so now Andy's got a reason to target the rest of Gata. That's a good line. That's a good, good, good, uh, scribble that down. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right. So then Andy is now, okay, well now I gotta,

Gata go after, uh uh my old tribe mates and we see him writing in the sand i don't know what he was necessarily counting he's just like writing like an enemy's list uh in the sand he's not he doesn't have a to-do list he has an enemy's list okay on day one of the merge and he's writing down uh sam's name and we see Genevieve come into the picture. And this is so fun. And this is like, you know, wish casting Genevieve and the Alliance. And this is very exciting. And we know that Genevieve is she likes working with some of these wild cards.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. She went in her room was her previous number one yeah and so okay so genevieve and andy end up having uh this interesting pairing but steven i think that's what's so interesting about this is that there's also the conversation that comes up later uh at the reward feast of the baby back ribs that there's this idea of, okay, yellow and red,

Lavo and Gata. Could we work together against Tuku? Now that it just so happens that Andy and Genevieve would, would be part of this. So is there like this other, like a sleeper cell inside of the yellow and red alliance that's going to be working to take out sam my guess is they do end up more aggressively targeting sam i mean what was interesting to me about that conversation was that they said if tuku doesn't vote each other out

like then this group can work together why why not just say this group should vote to work together you know it's like that that that penner thing you know like why not just be this group should work together? You know, it's like that penner thing. You know, like, why not just be like, this is the group. We're working together. They're like, okay, if they don't target each other, like, you don't need that conditional statement. Just say we're together. Yeah. And so in some way, did Saul sort of like upset that

by taking Rachel out? Because now Rachel comes back and all of a sudden, now that the, you know, the, the got to like, oh, we can't forget about, you know, Sam and Sierra. Now they have Rachel back now. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right.

I mean, that, that was, that was what I thought the rationale for Saul for not giving it to Rachel was going to be if he didn't give it to Rachel. It's probably more useful to him to have like a secret ally. What's, what's the move for Saul here? Does he go to Rachel and say, I saved you? Or does he keep this in his pocket or, you know, the band, the elastic band of his underpants and say it, pull it out at final tribal council and say, Hey, I, I did it. You know, the Marianne approach, not telling anyone. I think don't tell anybody is the point. Like, I think that the time to tell people would have been like, hey,

what should we do to affect this tribal council? But I think that the fact that now if people are mad about what happened, then if you go and tell Rachel that, hey, I saved you, it's like, oh, so we're like, oh, you won now? It's almost like that to tell a person you did a thing for them, it doesn't really buy you anything. I feel like that it's just one of to tell a person you did a thing for them it doesn't really buy you anything i feel like that it's just one of these like messed up things about human beings where if you tell them like hey you didn't know this i actually did something good for you it's like i feel like that they're they end up more annoyed with you than if you were able to dangle it to rachel and say like hey if i like like, uh, I can, I have this thing. I can help

you. Oh my God. Saul, I love you. But if you tell them I already did the thing for you, they just end up annoyed with you. It's like the French after world war two. It's just like that. It's just like, no, but no. Um, that was like, that was the cliche, right? And obviously that's not a hundred percent true that like the French were resentful of Americans partially because of the American role in world war two. Anyway. Um, I don't believe that, but that was the cliche. We're all resentful of each other for all kinds of reasons. So, I mean, that's interesting too, because like then Rachel can't go to the end with Saul, right?

Like you can't go to the end with the person who saved you. No, she can't. And there's all sorts of reasons. So I think that you just have to like, let the mystery be. Yeah, yeah. And maybe like, I think that for Saul, I think it's almost like a hinky vote of like,

now I think he has to like use this as ammo to throw Sam and Sierra under the bus. It must have been them. Who else would save Rachel? Right. Yeah. That's a very good point. But you don't think there's anything to be gained

by him saying to Rachel, like, hey, like I want to, you know, I want to have a secret alliance with you it's possible but she could also use that as ammo to throw him under the bus of like hey everybody just so you know song not the thing he told me he saved me like what he lied to all of us and so i think that was a very funny scene too which we have to acknowledge was all like sol is great sol is wonderful television. And so I just think for Saul, like that he missed the moment in which he could have used it to build trust with people.

And now he has to take it with him to the final tribal council. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. But I mean, a great thing to mention. I don't know though. I feel like if he had said it publicly then, it wasn't like Heidi's thing

where I think Heidi had to have, you know, to declare it publicly. She had to announce whose vote she was taking right so with in this case she found it like in a public way it was like all right everybody go look for keys and she had to say like okay i'm the person that got the right right unlock the thing and in this case i mean like i think if saul had said that like they could all come up with a decision together but saul would still have this kind of like asterisk by his name or, Oh, Saul, Saul did that big thing.

You know, he's got this resume point that none of the rest of us have, you know, because he, he happened to be lying next to the urn. I mean, so I, I think it was right of him to play secretly.

I think so too. I think that, you know, had he found it out in the open, I think that it could have been a group decision, but he also then was like secretive of like, that he went off into the woods and then, Oh, Genev like you didn't share it with me uh teenies like you didn't share it with me like so i thought we were friends and so i think that for him and that he's gone too far down the road he's got to keep it a secret

yeah and it's interesting that the perception of rachel is as the god of glue right not that like nobody knows that sam is the real glue guy. Well, according to Sam, it turns out that maybe he is not as much of a glue guy. Right. But my guess is Rachel is also not the God of Glue, given that her best ally was voted out. Yeah. Maybe there was no glue person. No glue.

Maybe they had no glue. That was the ultimate, the biggest secret. Yeah. No glue. Yeah. Yeah. There was never any glue at all. So it's a new year. You know what that means? Setting big goals. Maybe you promised yourself you're going to hit the gym every day, or maybe you said you're going to learn to make fire with a flint for once or the classic save more money. But let's be honest, New Year's resolutions tend to fizzle out by February. Wouldn't it be great if at least one of those goals could be automatic? That's where Acorns comes in. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. You probably heard me talk about them

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Let's start to work in some questions from the audience. I also just want to highlight, of course, Stephen Fishback stole the show on the I Stand Cagayan brand new documentary that aired. We premiered it on Tuesday night on YouTube. But Stephen, we had a premiere on Monday night in Philadelphia. We had a screening at the Ritz Theater. Wow, the Ritz, Hobnobbing with the glitterati. But, Stephen, I just want to tell you, the biggest reaction from the crowd, the biggest laugh line was what you talking about. Tony coming at you for having your feces stain glasses. Yeah, one of my favorite moments in my Survivor podcasting career.

Yeah. And then there was a great clip that got shared by the all-winner Survivor Instagram account. They always find, like, such, like, deep-cut things. And they found the clip of Parvati interviewing Tony about his rivalry with you. How are they finding the part? Like, does CBS still have that online somewhere? I don't know how they find. They find stuff that's, like, all the time. They have, like, stuff of, like, Survivor Amazon, like, DVD extras. It's, like, incredible. I don't know how they find, they find stuff that's like all the time. They have like stuff of like a survivor, Amazon, like a, like DVD extras.

It's like incredible. I don't know how they find. At least like a DVD extra is a digital record. I understand. Like the after show that Parvati hosted for two seasons or whatever, like that seems very strange. I don't understand how they do it, but they do amazing things over there. So they find all these like a very deep cut video. So it was a very, very funny. It was a very, like, I loved watching it. It was so fun uh videos so uh it was a very very funny it was a very like i loved watching it it was so fun i mean it was such a fun retrospective it was great

to see all these different people's perspectives i love that you had like david samson you know there with great commentary throughout you know you know trish obviously tasha was you know so many like of the players and then also really fun commentary from from the podcasters and other contestants uh it was great it was like a very enjoyable thing. The only thing I was frustrated with was that truly 80% of my commentary that I delivered was about LJ and only a very small portion of that made it into the, like, there was one tiny LJ segment. I had like one line about LJ, but like 80% of the things I said were about LJ. Cutting room floor. Let's see the LJ cut. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, we'll see. We'll see if we could have some DVD extras. Okay. All right. Let's start to bring in some questions from the listeners. Okay.

How about the question from NB703? Do you think that Rachel made the right move not to get Gabe out with Blockavote? Tiana was offering her a branch and now she went home because of Rachel's decision. First off, let me start off with which, how do you think Rachel was going to vote prior to receiving the advantage? That's a really good question.

I got the sense that she did not believe what Gabe was telling her. So I had the sense that she probably would vote for Gabe. You know, she said, she had a long confessional where she said, you know, these things Gabe is saying sound so good and I want to believe them, but like, I don't really know.

Whereas vis-a-vis Tiana, it seemed like she more, and you know, Tiana was more sincere. Gabe was like, literally winking at the camera like during that interchange. So, you know, she correctly read Tiana as more honest than that. So I believe she voted for Gabe. it is interesting that she could have gotten like if the if she felt like that the tiana and kyle plan was sincere um and and maybe caroline did a good enough job of like talking tiana off of it i don't

remember that did did tiana go to rachel with the plan or did she just go to caroline with the with the the pitch of a plan to bring to rachel oh that's a really good question um the chat will know yeah i was that offer on the table for rachel rachel but that could be a false memory yeah yeah i don't remember if she actually laid out the plan uh with her because you've run the risk of Rachel going back to Gabe and then saying what the plan was going to be. Gabe went to Rachel with a plan, which I think was certainly a fake plan to vote out Caroline in that spot.

Anne is saying she went to Rachel first. Yeah. So I do think that that is interesting, riskier for Rachel. Right, for Rachel. Yes. For a game. Yeah. To use the block of vote and then ultimately count on Tiana and Kyle there. Yeah, that would be a bad call. That would be a very bad choice. Because if she leaves, they have to vote at one of their own.

Like there's no real gain for her in staying around to cast that vote right and there's a tremendous i mean maybe there's like well i see i disagree i i feel like that she went with the safe move but like the you know um the bigger move would be certainly to get gabe out in that spot right right right yeah that's true and to like do the block of it would be a bigger gabe do enough to win over rachel like uh did gabe make rachel feel like hey i'm we're working together. Yeah. Um, I don't know if you even want the big move in this spot, right? Like that's what got Emily flipping out. Right. She took too much credit, um, you know, for Bruce's boot. Right. And everyone's like, Oh, she's playing hard. You know, just famous, like stick around. You want to have your big move on day 24 or 25. You know, you don't need to have the big move on day. Oh yeah.

Rachel's a big threat now at the final 12. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Just take, leave, be safe. I don't think there's anything that anybody could say to me that would have caused me to stick around in that tribal council being Rachel. Like, regardless of how certain you feel, you just never know.

Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. How about a question from Ellis wants to know uh with only one person going home last night do you think that they will do the inevitable double boot i don't think it's an inevitable double boot i i think that steven that based off of when people are saying the finale are bryce and wendell have already announced a finale party on december 18. That gives us 14 weeks of this Survivor season. I think we're getting an extra episode.

Yeah, wow, that's fun. Didn't it used to be 14 episodes? You know, one of them was the clip show. Yes, I think that that certainly was the case way back when, but I think, yeah, I think we're squeezing another episode out. The clip show, by the way, always a very painful watch. Do you ever like, when you went and rewatched seasons would you re-watch the clip show

no i think a couple of times i did i think actually uh your season i think token sheens i actually watched the uh clip show i think that's actually one of the better ones i think there's a lot of like unseen footage in uh the token sheens one yeah like joe and spencer playing jatoba baseball i think that they really used to half-ass it on them like way back when and then i think that like as they were getting like uh there was less hype for the clip show i think they really did try to put a lot more of like never before seen stuff into the clip yeah yeah otherwise it was just like basically summary yeah yeah but i do think tokuchin's uh maybe the best clip show. Yes. You can,

you can have that. The best season. Yeah. Okay. Next week, Steven. Oh my gosh. Can I tell you, like, I was at the dinner with some friends and I've gotten them into Survivor. And of course, the first season they watched was Token Jeans and now they're watching, you know, now they're watching like 44 or 45 and they're like, oh my gosh, it was so much harder in your day. You guys had it so much, suffered so much more. Wow, this modern survivor. So I was, I honestly like was about to ascend to heaven. I was like, I can't say that, you know, because people get mad.

Yes, I don't know if the, like, we don't have anything to eat necessarily comes through, comes through the screen. Yeah. Yeah, what are you going to do? Okay, Steven, next week, speaking of food, the auction is going to be back next week. I hope it's just like pure joyful auction.

I just want the pure goofy fun auction. No, I think we're keeping the Survivor 45 rules for the auction. Okay. Okay. Well, whatever. It's fun. I love the auction. Did you have an auction in Token Jeans?

Oh, yeah. We had a great auction. We won the best auction. Oh, yeah. Vitage. Vitage. Oh, we're back at camp. Yes.

Yes. What did you get for the auction? I won the auction. I didn't get to see Eddie George, but I didn't even know who he was at that. So it didn't really matter. Um, I got, um, first of all, I got peanut butter and chocolate, um, just for myself. I was allowed to get naked. No, well, yes, but, um, no, no, I didn't have to get naked. Um, then I also got the chicken hearts, which made air.

And then I also got this giant plate of like, I got a beer and like a chicken. Like I like got more food and sustenance than anybody else in that auction. Yeah, so you did win the auction. Yeah, I did, yeah. Yeah, okay. Steven, where do we go from here with, uh, this group?

Well, like, what do you think is the group that comes together next week? Yeah. I mean, we do seem to be seeing, right. Okay. So the groupings that we kind of see now are, there's this, we know about this Gabe, Sue, Caroline grouping. Kyle seems to be somewhat outside of that, but yet a part of it. You know, we've got this maybe Andy, Saul, uh, Genevieve situation that like probably teeny is a part of to some know we've got this maybe andy saul uh genevieve situation that like probably

teeny's a part of to some in some capacity um we know that sam and sierra are tight and rachel could be but you can also see now you can kind of be like well is is rachel going to be pulled over into this saul andy teeny genevieve group because she's got bad blood with sam and sierra um i don't know it's like i hope she has bad blood with Sam and Sierra. I think that Sam and Sierra- They blindsided her. I think that at this point, they might be more aligned with Sam and Sierra

than Andy is. Rachel might be. Maybe, but she also, after the blindside, she went to Andy and was like, I don't really have a place now. And she was like, I got to find some new people. So I think she might be more of a free agent than a goddess strong.

So if we're leaning towards, you know, okay, some sort of like ultimate Sam and Sierra are targets. Do we think that next week ends up being like a, what, a nine, how many people are left? 11 people are left. Like, are we looking at like maybe like an eight to three vote next week? It could be, could be it does feel like that salmon sierra story has like been building there's been a lot of like a few episodes of this narrative of andy and it does

feel like now is like i can't imagine it lasting all season long right like i mean this it feels like it's kind of reaching a head so i at some yeah at some point someone's getting voted out yes no doubt about that uh somebody is definitely going to get voted out. But I just feel like that does the Andy and Genevieve, like I guess that maybe if they want their like pound of flesh for putting Andy's name out there, is that what comes on? And then Tuku just piles on like, don't forget about Tuku, everybody.

Yeah, they voted out Tiana, but there's still four people over there. I mean, there's also a world where Kyle is the target because, you know, for reasons you suggested. I don't think so. And Rome was throwing his name out very aggressively too. So maybe there's some legacy of that. Yeah.

I don't know. You never know. Okay. All right, Steven. So next week, you and I are going to be together on Friday next week. So be on the lookout for that and uh hopefully they don't call the election in the middle of our survivor no dolls on friday whoa everybody will just like turn this off instantly what no keep this is much more

uplifting this is fun politics is very stressful very stressful yeah okay so uh we'll be together on friday uh next week also i have a very fun thing going on i'm gonna be uh i'll be actually screening the episode early whoa yeah unc chapel hill saturday night for a big night on the campus of unc more hobnob you i feel like you're doing even more hobnobbing even more can't stop won't stop right yeah yeah once you've hobnobbed you know you just got to keep hobnobbing yep so that's going to be a very fun event coming up a b saturday night always be hobnobbing is it a b h k yes okay i don't have the k in hob now i always thought of it i didn't know those h o b n o b b i i don't think it's like a like a doorknob oh it's

uh that i assumed that it would be a k in there because you're like opening the door to the upper crust society yeah yeah no i don't think there's a k in the interesting okay i learned something new today all right yeah and then also we have tickets on sale for our live event coming up in houston just over a month away, December 4th. I will be hobnobbing. I'll always be hobnobbing. I'll be hobnobbing in Houston, Texas on December 3rd and 4th. Our patron meetup coming up on the 3rd. And then our live show, a big turnout is expected in Houston, Texas. Tickets are on sale to the public at robinswebsite.com slash Houston.

All right. Houston is a great, there's a lot of fun, like Texas survivors, I feel like, who might come out for a Houston, no one else. The Houston Hobnob.

Stan, make that the promo code for the patron tickets. Houston Hobnob, okay? Yeah. All right, Chase, we will let you get back on the case here tonight. Stephen, what's your favorite Halloween treat? Well, obviously the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup is the best Halloween treat.

That seems like kind of a no-brainer. I mean, maybe people don't consider it a Halloween treat. You're a guy who will pay big money for chocolate and peanut butter. I didn't pay you $20 I got that for. That was a bargain, $20 for a little bowl of chocolate and peanut butter. I mean, that's kind of what it costs now. I know. That's a reasonable. $20 for a little bowl of chocolate peanut butter. I mean, that's kind of what it costs now. I know. That's a reasonable price for that.

You go to the airport, you know, like I'll have a couple of peanut butter cups, $20. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Wait, I need to address something. People in the chat are mad that I'm not giving Saul a fishy. First of all, I do think Saul played great. And I came into this thinking I was going to get Saul a fishy. But then like Caroline really was, you know, I felt like the strategic mover of the episode Saul had a lot of great

moments you know finding the clue deploying it to Rachel was the correct moment I thought like not I thought he did everything correctly Saul's gotten a fishy that's the other thing yeah Caroline deserves the fishy this is a no-brainer I would I would push back there's question yeah no I know you would Caroline this is a no-brainer fishy for caroline there's no debate okay okay um respect okay okay all right yeah uh he's all got the potato salad that that's he got his reward and he got a great gift that will live forever okay not since aubrey have we had uh so much excitement around potato salad okay all right thank. Alright. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.

Bye. champions best that we know just grab your mic and we go wild we're led by a simple creed if Rob has a podcast we have a hero Rob says to Nino

time to fly more things make me this is your time Big thanks to Eric Barger who composed the beautiful ballad you just heard. Hear more of his music at itelectric over on Instagram.