RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Ep 11

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 48 episode 11.

. . . . . . . .

. . . . .. If you have any other concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. They game a million times Well, actually they didn't really win the game at all Survival no way at all

Survival no way at all Steven and Rob went out and down Yeah, that's right! The Survivor Know-It-Alls are back to talk about the Final 7, now 6, here in Survivor 48. And of course we are back here to talk about it all with the great Steven Fishback. Steven, how are you? Wow, what an episode, Rob. Big moves, crazy things happening here on Survivor 48. How do you take that tone when right before we came on,

we sat down about this season, you said, you know what? I actually, I really like this season. you said, you know what, I actually, I really like this season. And like, okay, great, can't wait to talk about it. We turned on the podcast. And then you shaved the episode. Pick a lane, what is it? I thought it happened before the podcast was all,

I thought that was just, you know, shop talk. And then here we present our official. Yeah, but I feel like, why are you being like negative before the podcast starts and then we turn on the switch and now you're like, or I'm sorry, you were like so positive before the podcast. No, I'm happy to, I will stand up for season 48. I'm thrilled that we can talk about it.

Not this episode. I will not stand up for this episode of season 48, which was a real will they or won't they, and they didn't. I thought this was better than last week, for the record, but we'll talk about it all as we all sit. It's like the Great Gatsby, Steven, as we sit, not the Great Gatsby, waiting for Godot. Yes, and we wait, and we wait, and we wait for Big Move

that may or may not ever come we wait for Joe Go Joe go yes, yes What was the word that Joe spelt in? Like go you go go fun betray or something yeah I mean look that I know your adrenaline is up during these challenges But yeah, Joe spelt something that was not even words. Go fun betray! Or something to that effect.

Yeah, got fun betrayal. Got fun betrayal. We're looking for a fun betrayal, but no, none to be had here in Survivor 48, but we'll talk about it all and talk about it. Well, I think I have a pretty good sense of where this goes from here, and I'd love to talk about it, because I don't know if we are on the same page about that so stay tuned everybody

Thanks for tuning in we appreciate you joining us here week after week as we Break down the final couple episodes. I believe two weeks from tonight We will be at the finale of survivor 48 but plenty to do between now and then tomorrow morning I will get the chance to speak with Mary and you can catch my exit interview Of course in our we know survivor feed go to we know survivor comm for all things Survivor and so as far as Thursday goes we just had a late scratch in terms of our get with a great guest Late scratch we're working on rescheduling. So TBD for Thursday's podcast. I'll definitely bring you something.

But then we'll also have. The great guest fee. Yeah, the great guest fee. Poverty Shallow is gonna join us on Monday. So be on the lookout for that one coming up, plus everything else I do with this patron Q&A, Club Kondo as well. So join us for all that here on RHAP. All right, Stephen, Mary, after all the hand,

it looked like they dangled the, like okay, it's happening, this is it, okay, this is not a drill, let's go, and then ultimately we get a six to one vote for Mary. I thought it was really going to be a pile on Joe here. I mean, they really set it up. They had a whole arc for Kyle, right? They had like, Kyle starts the episode. I don't know.

I'm in a great spot. I don't want to turn on Joe. We've shared such deep things. They shared, they shared things. And you turn on to turn on Joe. We've shared such deep things. They shared things. And you turn on to vote against Joe, we'll undermine those things. And then you have right before the end, a confessional from Kyle, I've made up my mind.

I am with Camilla. And you're like, wow, that's a story arc. You know, he goes from indecisive to being decisive and he's gonna make a move. You know when I knew things were not to go that way and was when we got Shaheen's confessional, which was like, I'm mad at Joe and Joe is this hinky vote thing, maybe I'll switch to Joe. I thought to myself, that is a confessional that sounds like someone

who's trying to create ambiguity, not someone who actually is going to vote out Joe. Um, and so I thought, I don't think Cheyenne is on this Joe plan. And then I thought, maybe there's still a world, but no, no. Hey, can we talk about the move of the episode before we get into the actual episode? Sure. David standing on the jury, never been done before in the history of Survivor.

At least not. Yeah. And like, I thought, Survivor, at least not, yeah. And like, I thought, I mean, actually, like, I'll be honest, when it happened, first I was like, is he gonna fight? Like, is he ready to throw down? But then I actually got a little moved, and I think again, it's because I'm very tired today, but I got a little like moved at this like, you know,

unusual display, you know, using the limited kind of tools he has as a silent juror and respecting that, but also showing a little tribute to someone he was close to. Honor Mary, yes. My favorite part of that was Star is cracking up laughing as he's doing that. Like Star is hiding her face during that moment.

Like Star cannot believe what she is witnessing. Yeah, it was a very, I mean, it's never been done or certainly it's never been seen before. I'm sure like stuff has been done that just never made the edit. As I've mentioned zillion times before in token chains, everyone applauded at the final three when, that didn't make the edit.

But like someone just like standing in tribute, very, it's a game changing move. That would legitimately qualify someone for game changers. Do you think that we are on the heels of potentially having a wave from the jury box? This, I mean, once you stand and everything, it's like the first time JT stood and crossed the room on game changers.

Suddenly after that, it was like, every tribal was like. Yeah. And fortunately we've come back. We wish every tribal was like this. Not a live tribal council that we had in Survivor 48. No, I'm happy though that we're not in the, like everyone running off in the corner.

Very dead tribal councils happening in Survivor 48. Yeah. The antithesis of a live tribal council. So yeah, so they really, really, really teased it. The whole episode was like this building up of like, this is our shot. Even the whole post-merge has been a tease of a big move that's coming where I, listen, I had a lot of colorful analogies about this Go in a number of different directions In terms of colorful analogy, but I just feel like it's almost like with as as a dad

It's almost like you like tell the kids. Hey, you want to go for ice cream? You're gonna go for ice cream Okay, we're gonna go for ice cream We go for ice cream and then the kids the kids are like yes, we want to go go for ice cream? Okay, we're gonna go for ice cream. We're gonna go for ice cream. And then the kids are like, yes, we want to go for the ice cream. And it's like, not today. Yeah, how did you feel? Yeah, what's your analogy? I definitely love that.

I wouldn't come on this podcast and complain if they didn't tease us with the big move and hold it, everybody, like Mitch, Kyle, Camilla, Shaheen, Mary, we're all, we're gonna make the big move. We gotta do it. We gotta make the move. And then, and then Joe is narrowly avoids winning immunity and it's Camilla's night to win immunity. It's like, all right, baby, it's now or never. Okay. Last week, I love condo. let's go. Yeah, last week, look, I was disappointed last week, but I said, hey, they don't have to do it at eight.

They still have a chance at seven to do it. And then here we go at seven, everything falls into place. Joe doesn't win immunity. Eva says, hey, I'm not gonna play my idol tonight. I'll play it, I'm gonna play it at five. And so it's all working out Everything is aligned and then ultimately Mary goes home and which I was really also feeling there was so much Mary content in this episode

It really did feel like it was Mary's boot episode. So let me start and ask you did Mary potentially Screw things up by announcing that she was going to vote for Joe? Did that potentially unsettle the delicate plan to backstab Joe? No, if anything, I think it like makes it easier because you don't have to include Mary in the plan anymore. Like I think people were a little tentative

or trepidatious about telling Mary, like, you know, that they wanted to vote for Joe. I mean, Kyle says that, right? You know, I want, I'm considering blindsiding Joe. I don't necessarily want Mary to know that because who knows how she'll use that information, which is a good point. Like she could go to Joe and be like, Hey, Kyle's telling the blindsiding you. But for Mary to say, I'm voting for Joe, suddenly, you know, there are, there's at least one vote going on Joe. So you can add your votes without even including Mary in the plan. I mean, you know, are they mad at Mary because of the coconut situation? Coconut etiquette. And that is a very, I have to say that will

wear on you. And especially a season that's so focused on honor and integrity, you know, lacking food honor is very shameful. Sure. But it's also day 21 and we're trying to win and you could, playing for a lot of coconuts here that I feel like that if Mary is not a perfect citizen when it comes to her coconut consumption, I feel like we can look past that to work with her

in order to get closer to the win. Yeah, I am with you about that. I think, and also like to her point, nobody is taking her on reward. I mean, Mary does not eat. So I felt bad, although she was on that one award, but I mean, it's on Twitter. Oh, yeah. OK, so anyway, the, were you sad? Were you sad for Joe that it looked like he was gonna get booted?

No, not at all. I mean, I've been waiting for somebody to at least make the attempt on Joe. And if Joe can sniff it out. There was an attempt at the time. Yeah, I mean, that we saw Mary just say she was gonna write down Joe's name and there was a whole unraveling

from Joe. Yeah. I mean, you know, so I go back to what I mentioned last week on the podcast, Heather Cannon's tweet about like seasons where this dominant figure just sort of like marches to the end of victory. They always show how everybody else should have and had the opportunity to take that person out and then didn't do it. And that's what I think this episode was and that's what I

think last week was. Like you guys had the shot, you talked yourselves in circles around it, and then you blew it. And this is sort of like, you know, they were like, this is the like why so-and-so won season. This is why, you know, Russell lost season. This is why everybody else lost season. Yeah, and if Joe goes on to win the season, I think we will go back to this night and say this was the night that they had the chance to take the shot at them. Now, we did have some encouraging signs from Kyle,

where last week I really felt like that Kyle felt like more that he was locked in with the four. And this week we saw a thawing where Kyle is now considering a move against the four. Kyle even told his number one, Camilla, that he is in fact a lawyer and not a teacher. And in Survivor 48, in the post-merge, I think that's the biggest move of the post-merge so far.

He missed the opportunity for the big reveal. David got voted out, but other than that, In the post-merge, I think that's the biggest move of the post-merge so far. He missed the opportunity for the big reveal. David got voted out, but other than that, yeah, it's been very quiet, but this was maybe the most game-changing move of the night. Yeah, he missed the chance to drop the bomb at Tribal, at Final Tribal. That might have just squandered his Final Tribal argument. Maybe for everybody else, he would go on to do that. So, all right, so there's been a little bit of, okay, Kyle and Camilla are coming back together, but ultimately the big

move does not happen tonight. And we can talk through what might have gone wrong. But Steven, this is where I think this is going. I think I see the path of what's happening. So while it would have made a lot of sense for the big move to come tonight, I think that Kyle and Camilla's big move ends up being that they never go for Joe or Eva. They end up taking the shot at Shaheen and then go to the final four Kyle and Camilla with Joe and Eva Mitch ends up being fifth. I think that next week and this is also informed from we see some talk in the preview I think that Kyle ends up That Kyle and Camilla the plan they originally tried to use against

Shaheen with David they end up using on Joe and Eva and convinced them that Shaheen is the snake and they vote out Shaheen next week leaving a final five of Kyle, Camilla, Joe and Eva and then Mitch feels like hey I'm in pole position I did it like hey let's make the big move and then Mitch gets treated like star last week. We're saying, I don't think so Mitch. We're happy to go to the final four with just us. And then I think that Kyle and Camilla are doomed

to a date in the final four fire making. Interesting, that actually makes a lot of sense for this relationship between the two of them of like, we're like the best allies. Like Tony and Sarah, that they end up these, these partners in crime or law enforcement end up together in the final four fire making. And Kyle being a finalist, I think over Camillo,

just like in terms of how much care and attention his edit has received, I think like that is very viable, right? Like it seems like extremely likely. Although I'm also like on the, on the like, you know, Kyle's like, Kyle is like very Jesse coded, right? Like he seems very much the Jesse, like, this is all these tough moral decisions and I'm doing this for my family.

And like, you know, I don't know if he said that, but like, you know, he could have, he very well could have. Yes. You know, so. Well, but like, you know, he could have, he very well could have. Yes. So that is very much survivor in the new era of that, you know, you can do something that is dastardly to one of your other people in your alliance if it is for the betterment of your family.

If you are doing it, if you have moral reasons back home, that that is the justification to keep you a likable character to take out a fellow person in your alliance. I am not totally on board with your read. I think that is a very good read. I also just kind of think it might go Mitch out next, Camilla, and then the final four is, you know, the four that has been predicted. I think that is totally viable because every week we're teased with, this is the week they're gonna do it.

You know, last week we heard all the promos were about like the piranhas, and this week it was all like, oh, are they gonna finally, you know, turn up? This is the moment, we get like the Mitch clip, oh, I gotta make my move. And it never happens. So I certainly, we certainly saw a teaser about, and they have really been playing up this like,

oh, just showing you have an idol. But I am not totally sold on that. I think it's a very viable narrative. It seems like such malpractice, and I'm not sure why we saw so much of Kylan and Camilla over the course of the season for them to just vote out Mitch at six and then basically take it to five

and then either sucks for you, sorry for you Camilla, or Kyle and Camilla reveal themselves then and then it's like, well, we have three and you have two. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, it wouldn't be the first time we saw some like big duo that ended up like kind of going nowhere.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess, but to me, I just feel like there has to be some payoff to all of the Kyle and Camilla that we've seen other than, you know, we had the Thomas vote early on, but I just think that they have one move up their sleeve and that might be what we're building to, where they never, and I think for Kyle, I think he sees this as I'm going to be able to have my cake and eat it too.

I'm not going to betray Joe. We have shared things. Okay. And that we will, I will take the shot at Shaheen and do so in a way to make it look like Shaheen shot first, Han Solo, Greedo style. And if Eva is not, let's say Eva's, you know, safety without power next week, let's say Joe wins immunity,

then they might be like, this is the only shot we have, so let's do it. You know, it's essentially a five person tribal council. So that's viable. That's totally viable. I think that's a pretty good read, Rob. I like that. I have been wondering, you know,

so much of any Survivor season, like they kind of set it up in terms of the antagonists, you know, who is the last kind of boss for Joe to face. And I do think Kyle is probably that boss or Joe is Kyle's boss. But I kind of think there's also a world where Joe is his own final boss. And I kind of see where we're seeing like his paranoia

getting to him. It's getting the best to him. And I think that there's a world where like that is Joe's struggle. Everyone else is just like spinning in circles, but Joe's struggle is like, can I control my own paranoia? Joe is the only person who is a good enough antagonist for Joe.

Joe really had such a struggle in this episode with that Mary said, she was gonna write his name down. We never have seen Joe really come under attack in any serious way at any other point during the season. I think he's had the immunity necklace three times. He had a chance to win it for the fourth time and Joe was going to really try to get some support from the rest of the team of like alright Mary says she's writing my name down What are we doing Mitch whose name should I write down like listen Joe the answer is right?

Just write down Mitch's name You don't have to get the consensus from Mitch or Kyle or Shaheen or come over I can't write down Camilla's name, but you know that look consensus from Mitch or Kyle or Shaheen or, you can't write down Camilla's name, but you know, look, Mitch is the answer, like stop asking other people what to do. Yeah, yeah. Or I mean, I guess that's what I would do, right?

Like you just don't know. If you know your name is getting written down, you know, I think you like take that risk. I mean, on the other hand, like if it's gonna piss off your whole alliance that you've basically articulated the person who's next to go. Who cares if he pisses off Mitch?

Where is Mitch going at the final six? Yeah, well, no, I mean, especially if Mitch is the next on the list, it's like, okay, you know, so you're mad. Yeah, I mean, this seemed like so obvious of that was the next move to make. I mean, Mitch is clearly next, if not Camilla, and if Mitch ends up getting mad at you at the final six, where is clearly next, if not Camilla. And if Mitch gets up getting mad at you at the final six, where is he going? What is he doing?

You have a four-person alliance. Who cares if Mitch gets mad at you, Joe? Yeah. Is there a world where Kyle is right not to take the shot yet? Because if Kyle takes the shot here, then his alliance is himself, Camilla, Mary, and Mitch. Eva and Shaheen are super pissed at him. Yeah. And they want him gone next. And Mitch and Mary are like, I don't have any love for you. Are you worried that Mitch is going to go to rocks against the three of Kyle, Camilla, and Mary? No, I just think that there's a world where like, it just gets flipped right back on them. Like, I don't think Mitch has to go to rocks. Mitch and Mary could both be like, let's get out Kyle next.

I mean, there's a world where like, this is not a bad choice for Kyle here because again, like, let's say he makes this move without Shaheen. Then he's got Eva and Shaheen super pissed at him. They're like, let's get out Kyle next. And then you have Mitch and Mary who are- But who's going with Eva and Shaheen? Mitch and Mary? Why not?

Because when it becomes, I mean, when it becomes big target whack-a-mole, Kyle is the second biggest target. So like if I'm Kyle, you wanna wait until the last possible moment to vote out Joe here. Because if you, you know, from my perception as a viewer, and maybe he has a self perception as a player,

like he's number two, right? It's not Joe, he's number two, it's not even who's number two. And so if Joe goes, he becomes, suddenly like this whole power structure that has actually like protected him is destabilized and he's the next obvious boot. That's certainly a concern.

I think you can still frame it as, you know who's a big target? Eva, who's still here. You know, we still have to worry about Shaheen. And so I don't know if necessarily, you know Mitch and Mary are going to be you know Ready to like pendulum this swing and I think that Camilla is like a stabilizing force I think that that if I'm Mitch or I'm Mary, I think I want to try to get to the end with

Camilla and so there is a concern for Kyle But I do feel like that I think I would rather Attempt to go up against the the that field in immunities take Joe out of the picture Potentially have a really good shot to win immunity at five and four So I still like that path better for Kyle. And I think that Kyle still has to untangle the Joe of it all because I don't think he can beat Joe in final travel counsel. Yeah. And I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Yes. Because, but like, I do think like how many times over the years have we said, you know, that person took their shot too

soon. They, they were not the second biggest beast. And you take your shot and then next week you're voted out and you're like, oops, like I should have waited two weeks. And so much is about timing, you know, so much is about getting the person out right at six or five. And then you go into the finale with this like big, you know, with this big, um, you know, kill on your hands and get like this huge resume point and nobody has enough time to get you out after that. So in some ways like it's not horrible. Like I do think there's a word where Joe just wins out from here. They never had another chance to take him out. But I don't think like it's such a hard balance. And Kyle says it. It's like so many people are like, I took my shot too soon and then they're screwed for because of it. And so many people say I never took the shot and they, they live with that forever.

Yeah. And like so much of the survivor is luck. For the rest of their lives, Kyle said. Yeah. I mean, so much of that, I mean, that is luck. It's like you, you know, like you have to just do the right move at the right time and hope that it works out. And if you didn't, you know, like maybe he made a tactical choice,

I'm gonna wait on Joe. And then he screwed up because Joe won all the subsequent immunities. But there's also a world where he takes a shot here, he's voted out next and we're like, gosh, that was so dumb of Kyle. And we would be seeing a totally different story too. We'd be seeing like reckless Kyle, like going too fast.

I don't know. I mean, is that how we talk about Jesse? Do we talk about reckless Jesse? Yes. A lot of people say that. Jesse, you know, that is a very common, I'll say Jesse's a legend. Bring it. Some many people say bring him back. But is he going back? I don't know if he's going back. He said no on Twitter. He said no. So it's like it didn't even work out for him in that capacity.

Yeah. Listen, but. Alleged, listen, you become a legend or, you know, I think that what, what we're headed towards is a half measure where it's like, okay, I'm not going to take the, make the big move. I'm going to, you know, try to play the game at the margins. And ultimately I don't know if the jury awards that game to the winner as opposed to the person who played the game that is a little bit more understandable for the jury. So let me talk about Tony Vlachos.

One of the greats, one of the survivor greats, in competition for one of the greatest ever, right? Yep, good time winner. I'm familiar with his work. Okay, you know him, okay. So he said to me, I've talked about Spencer and, or Ryman, who was Spencer when Tony played with him. Yes.

And he said, like the reason he had kept Ryman around so late is because Ryman was always the target. And if he had voted Ryman out, then Tony is the next target. So he kept Ryman like right up until the final four? Yeah, four, right? Ryman was out fourth. And then he voted him out because that was when suddenly like,

then he could like, then he was in the final three. And of course it was the final two this season. But in this season, I feel like that Joe is the Tony here and Kyle is the Spencer Ryman. And- Well, but only because we think Joe might win. Unless you think Kyle wins. I don't think Kyle wins.

Yeah, yeah. I think though that like, if you are Kyle, there's a reason to keep the big, I mean, again, like, I think like the story was very clear. This was the wrong move. I think this was the wrong move. That's that I do, there's a reason to keep the big, I mean, again, like, I think like the story was very clear. This was the wrong move. I think this was the wrong move. That's that I do think there's an argument to be made that like if you're Kyle, getting rid of Joe

in this situation gets rid of your biggest meat shield and suddenly you're very exposed. And let me take this opportunity to give some credit to Joe because I feel like that, and I don't know if this is Calculate I will never know if if this is just who Joe is or does Joe use emotional relationships as a strategy in Survivor and

I don't know that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this is just who Joe is uh, that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this is just who Joe is, but that for whatever reason, the way that Joe is playing the game has made Kyle feel like that he cannot betray Joe without being a bad person, a person that he is proud of, that he cannot, he cannot make that move against Joe and then still hold his head up high. And- It's very like Tom Westman. I mean, Ian like quitting the challenge to like win back his approval.

Yeah. And I just, I do feel like that Kyle needs to separate himself from that. This is still at the end of the day, it is a game. It is a game with human relationships. But I feel like that those two things can be said for like, Kyle can be a good person. He can respect Joe and then ultimately make the move that's best for him. Right? Yeah. So here's what I like about this season. I know that everybody's so down on this season

and you started the show by outing my, my enjoyment of this season, which is really not socially acceptable. Only because you started the show by mocking how nothing happens. Yeah, no, I was gonna come around to explaining why I like this season. I think it's interesting, and I do think it's something that we've missed. And it has made a very somewhat boring post-merge,

but I have missed this tension between the players of like, I have like a tension between the players of like, I have like a human connection to these people. My decisions have moral weight and it's a game. I feel like the show has been so much the other way. And again, like Jesse actually was kind of an outlier in that capacity where you really saw him wrestle with the human elements and then like make that decision to actually still betray Cody.

But, you know, I think that it's something that is missing from a lot of seasons recently where it's like, we are all game bots doing the optimized move and like whatever algorithm is like the best is the one that like triumphs. And I think there's something very nice about the real human component of it, of like, these are real deep relationships I have.

These are real and I feel like a moral compulsion to care for these people because I have bonded with them so quickly I mean even Shaheen's thing when he like goes out for that fishing expedition and is like I never could have imagined how deep these bonds would get over 20 days Again, that's only half what we used to have to play. It's FYI. Um But no, but like truly like, you know, I missed that aspect. I think we were emerging on day 20. I digress.

Yeah, and Gabon, I don't think they had even like had a swap yet, but they, and I imagine that it's more there for the contestants than we even see, but I do think that, you know, to see that again at the forefront of the show to me is really interesting in a way that a lot of the other seasons, like, they're exciting, but like, that's what I kind of tune in for. And that's why I really liked it.

I still like this season in spite of the somewhat slow post-merge. Yeah, I do hear what you're saying. I see your point. I feel like it's just such an overcorrection of where things had been, where, okay, I am just, you know, making moves for the sake of making moves to the point where It seems to us at home. There are obvious moves that are to be made and people are

not taking those opportunities because of the Social relationships that are there. I mean the Joe and Eva relationships that are there. I mean, the Joe and Eva relationship, which is really at the center of the show and has shaped so much to me, it just feels like that, you know, are we even playing survivor Joe and the Joe and Eva relationship where, you know, I just feel like that. Does anybody in the world think that Eva has a chance to beat Joe in this game? Is there one person in the comments who thinks Eva would win in the final three with Joe?

Like what is Eva doing? Even doing? But I mean, like this is what coach was preaching in season 18 token chains was like the strongest go to the end and then make their case and the jury chooses. Yeah. I mean, Eva does have a case and I'm sure she tells herself she has a case. She has got all these advantages.

There's probably relationships she has that Joe doesn't have that we haven't seen to the same degree. Let's talk about Eva because Eva had an interesting day. Yeah, okay. So Eva gets to go to on the, I mean, just like compared to last season, not to put Survivor 47 at the top of the pantheon,

but you know what happened at the final seven in Survivor 47? Oh, I know. Operation Italy. Mm-hmm, one of the great episodes of the new era. Yeah, you know what happened on like the late merge journey? Like Rachel did the thing where she was like moving the balls around and then the like,

it was like Indiana Jones, the thing goes sliding off. And you know. It was like the saw puzzle. Super exciting, like pivotal part of the season where Eva goes on this journey and it ends up being like such a nothing of that. Eva gets that though. Anyone but Eva or Joe gets that

and like it's a big moment for the season. I'm sure like when the producers saw it who drew that purple rock, they were like, this is the worst possible scenario for this. Like, Eva has all the advantages. Knowledge is power is useless for her. She didn't say that. First off, I was disheartened to see Knowledge is power back. We had not seen Knowledge is power in the game since Survivor 43. I thought it was over. I was happy to see it not come back into the game. I am not a huge Knowledge is power fan.

I think they have to put it in every so often just to keep it alive as a possibility for the players. Like one of the things that Knowledge is Power does is it forces the players to be secretive about their advantages, which I think serves the show. It's like in Clock Tower, you know, every so often you put a butler, you know, you make, because nobody usually don't play with butler.

Yes, but every so often the storyteller puts a butler in the bag just to remind the players there could be a butler, you know, you, you, you, because no, we usually don't play with the butler. Yes, but every so often the storyteller puts a butler in the bag just to remind the players, there could be a butler out there. It could be, yeah. I wonder if getting the stack of eight was unattainable. Like, I wonder if it was like nearly impossible to get it. And so that the knowledge is power was the incentive, the carrot to try to get somebody to go for eight

Whereas it would have been nearly impossible to do it I was excited that Eva was going for it because I kind of felt like that Eva losing her vote really opened up some interesting things strategically that being said Alas, it was all for not Eva just walks away and we're just for nothing. Yeah. Can you combine the knowledge is power and safety without power advantages, like the without power and the power cancel each other out,

and you have like knowledge is safety. Hmm, knowledge is safety. I think in a lot of ways it is. Or safety is a type of knowledge. Yep, safety knowledge, that's also very important. Yeah. But, so Eva goes and then, also, can somebody check the hourglass that,

I feel like that the hourglass still had sand in it. She kicked her thing over. Didn't she have to have the four towers, the four layers still there when the sand ran out? I think she just said, I think she tapped out. We all know, so producer was there. It's like, you're good. You're good.

I don't know, I'm a stickler. I feel like you should lose her vote. You should sue as a viewer, you might have standing. Yeah, so we saw Joe say in episode one, I would lose the game for Eva, but I feel like what has actually happened is that Eva has Really, you know, I don't know if she feels this way. I feel like that Eva is going to lose the game for Joe Yeah, have we seen a duo that is this exposed?

I mean truly like like just like be like JT and I weren't mean, we were pretty flagrant, but like we weren't this flagrant. I'm like, oh yeah, Joe will never vote me out. We're together till the end. We would never turn on each other. In the new era. In the new era, yeah. You know, it's hard for me to like, I think that we've seen some pairs like Dee and Julie,

but I mean, not like this. Yeah. You're really inviting. I mean, the like this. Yeah. You're really inviting. I mean, the fact that that's one of the big miracles of the season, that they can say things like that and not be voted out. Yeah, I mean, look at what happened on the reward. Eva is like, well, you know,

I'm not gonna play my idol tonight. And then if I win immunity at five, I'm gonna play my idol on Joe, because you know how we are. It's interesting to me that they don't even, I'm sure they talk about Eva, but we don't see it. Like why does Kyle not say, I can't turn on Joe? Like he and I have had these deep conversations, but Eva.

Yeah, do you think that Kyle feels like that there is like an opportunity to maybe like take Joe into fire making? Is that what he is like? Is that maybe like take Joe into fire making? Is that what he is? Like, is that his plan to really get around Joe? I don't know. I mean, like he, he seems to think, I mean, Kyle and Camilla both said, if one of us is in the finale, it's a million dollars.

I believe that they see a jury that is going to be, it's not a crazy thought. They're, they might believe there's an anti-Joe jury out there and the jury often roots for the underdogs. So they might feel like I have enough jury connections so that the people will prefer me to Joe. They might feel like, you know, like you see David glowering over there. I mean, Christie was no Joe fan.

Like, I just don't think it's crazy for any of them. Like Mary, you know, probably has a, you know, could have a better relationship with Kyle than with Joe. Like it's not crazy for Kyle to think like, I have the votes. It's possible. He says that he doesn't know if he can beat Joe. It's, I think definitely a fair question to ask.

But I do think that even the people who are sort of like spicy on the jury, I think that like when it's like the finished product and they look at what happened and how they got there, I do feel like that people come around. Like I think that Joe is an admirable guy where that they might be salty, but are they bitter towards Joe? I bet David is. David maybe, David maybe because David feels like that his word was broken. Maybe David has Mary on the jury.

And so I think- If Camilla's on the jury, I mean, like how, you know, you don't need, you don't need to like exude, like winning this. You just need to get the votes. Yeah. Let's talk about Cheyenne, speaking of exuding winning.

I think Cheyenne had a very interesting episode. Yeah, I agree. Do you want me to elaborate? Yeah, yeah, I'd love that. Yeah. So I feel like that first of all, Shaheen was not even in the first half of the episode. Or no, he's in like, we didn't see much of Shaheen in the first like 15 minutes or so. And then he was he talks about how 20 days ago, he that he was gonna be in this thing. He was overconfident.

He had no idea what Survivor was 20 days ago. After the challenge is over, we see Shaheen singing his song, Just Win a Challenge. He can't win a challenge and is like really Down on himself and I think that Shaheen has been as a character so much on the sidelines here in the back half of the merge and it does feel like That we've seen Shaheen talking to Mary. We've seen him talking to Mitch at different points and He says that he thinks he's playing a better game than Joe, but we just don't ever see what he's working on. Yeah. I kind of think that Shaheen is getting that classic third place edit where, you know,

someone who's a really big character in the pre merge. You look at Ben in Survivor 46. You think Shaheen finishes in third place? I don't, that's one of my theories. I like your idea that he's out next week. I think that's very possible. Yeah. Because who do you think he would be finishing, who would be finishing in second place? Well, maybe Shaheen second, but like, you know, in a way that like, I can't see Eva getting more votes than Shaheen. No, but there's a world where like, Eva gets a vote or Shaheen gets a vote, you know, in a way like, yeah, Heidi was that character too. It's like this character who is like a big character in the pre-emerge and then kind of like fades into the background

is something that it's like, it's like a now an established edit. You know, you've got Ben in Survivor 46, you had Sue for sure in Survivor 47. Heidi's another one. You know, who is this character? Like, kind of like the third finalist, right? And again, like Heidi got more votes than Carolyn did, but Carolyn was obviously like that other big character. Who was- I agree with you.

I see a world where that, we've been talking about that, could Kyle lose to Joe at the final travel council? There certainly is a world where Shaheen is that person who loses to Joe at the final travel council. There certainly is a world where Shaheen is that person who loses to Joe at the final travel council. Yeah, right. Or I'm just saying Shaheen is the third seat. Like Kyle is the person who loses and Shaheen is also there.

I would really struggle to see Joe, Shaheen and Kyle all at the final travel council. It's just a world. It's just a world. I think that Eva is, I think Joe and Eva, Eva makes a lot of sense as that third seat. And then it being like Joe versus Kyle or even Shaheen there.

Yeah, but let's stay with Shaheen. I know I wanna talk about Joe and Eva with the final four. So it just feels like that Joe, I'm sorry, that Kyle and Shaheen are both in this same predicament of that they both feel like I so is this bond towards Joe that Joe is beyond reproach they cannot go after I think that Shaheen described a little bit more as they have all the stuff it's a little like he didn't describe it as much as like for Kyle he was like emotionally handcuffed

Shaheen expressed a little bit more about how that That it was the hardware that on the Joe and Eva tandem that was preventing him from Touching Joe and Eva. I do think that as we're talking about like could Kyle and Camilla make that move at Shaheen I think that Shaheen maybe, uh, should be looking in Kyle's direction as Kyle is the person blocking him from getting to that final travel council. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I, I mean, there's a world where Kyle's out next. I don't think that's a crazy possibility. Um, what would that end up being? Uh, well,

so we've seen that the drama of next episode is they target Shaheen and maybe it just backfires. You know, maybe they're like Kyle's the one who's spreading. I probably unless Shaheen gets an advantage or a real idol where that he ends up playing it and then ends up taking Kyle out. I don't know if at six Shaheen will be able to pull together the numbers to be able to that. I can't imagine Joe and Eva flipping on Kyle.

Yeah, I mean, I agree. It's a long shot. It seems pretty unlikely. Yeah, but what does Shaheen say? So Shaheen says, I think I'm playing a better game. He had some like cryptic remark at tribal council of like, we are all trying to play our best game as we perceive it. What do you think, what is Shaheen's game in his mind?

I think that Shaheen feels like that Joe and Eva have sort of like frozen people out and have just been like very much focused on their the four or the strong five. I think that Shaheen feels like that he has been working all of the relationships. We've seen him in the post merge, try to talk to say, and Mitch, uh, that star early on in the game, uh, Mary, like, uh, he tried to cultivate these relationships, but ultimately he didn't end up doing anything with these pieces at the time that he had them. I think he thinks that Camilla is a piece for him. And what he doesn't know is that Camilla is actually and not not to

You know, I don't mean any shade towards Camilla, but that Camilla rides for Kyle not for Shaheen. Yeah Yeah, I think there's no shade there. I think that's pretty straightforward Yeah, but I think that because that that Kyle and Camilla I think that the best thing that they've done is that they've been able to hide this relationship from Shaheen where Shaheen might be looking at this as like, okay, here we go going into the final six or going into the final seven and maybe he thought that I have Mary and if he did think this, I don't know why he didn't pursue it further. Maybe he thought that if he wins the challenge that that maybe he was going to try to make a move. But if he thought he had Camilla and Mary and Mitch, maybe this would have been the opportunity to try to take out Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a really good point.

I mean, yeah. But he seems, you know, I think all of them at the top are very content to just kind of like go down the line. I mean, if you have the numbers, it is the right choice. It's what we did in token chains. It's what people have been digging a lot. Like's just an old-school survivor season in that way Like there's no reason if you can ride as four strong to mix it up

Yeah, and if Shaheen does feel like hey that Kyle is the person the odd man out here. I'm with Joe and Eva those are my original tribe mates. We have the California girls from old Loggy That's our final three and when we go to the final three, I'm a debate coach Okay, right Joe's not gonna out debate me and I've got relationships with on the jury with with Mary with with Mitch You know all these people that I'm Camilla is gonna be a vote for me. So when push comes to shove I'm just gonna beat Joe when it counts in the final trial of accounts. So I think that that might be what Shaheen's plan is.

But why do you not attribute that same plan to Kyle? Because I feel like that's what I was describing to Kyle and you're like, no. Well, that's not that I don't think that that's what Kyle's plan is. I think that for both of them, I think it's not going to work. I think that there is what Kyle's plan is. I think that for both of them, I think it's not going to work. I think that there is a path for Kyle to get Joe and to outmaneuver Joe and

Eva and ultimately win the game. Shaheen doesn't have that. I think Shaheen doesn't have that same path. But I think that when Shaheen says he's playing a better game than Joe, I think that he thinks that I can see Joe is making mistakes and I'm gonna be able to capitalize on them. And Kyle is like on the outside looking at, Joe and Eva are more loyal to me than they are to Kyle. Yeah, I think that means a lot.

Which may well be true. Yeah, I think that's a good read. That's a very good read. Get free unlimited searches and views of key family history records on Ancestry until May 13th. To help you get started, we've selected the best record collections to make your first discovery. Including the 1931 Census of Canada, voters lists, and marriage indexes, it's the perfect

time to start building your family tree. Register at Ancestry.ca with just your name and email. No credit card details required. Free access ends May 13th. Terms apply. I want to talk about Joe and Eva going into the final four fire making. So if Joe or Eva, I would think probably two of the odds on favorites to win immunity at the final four.

Do you think that both would just take each other to the final travel council? Or do you think that they would get cute with somebody making five? That's a very honorable thing to do to make the fire potentially. Do you know I think that these guys aren't getting cute This is like meat and potato survivor. There's no like how do we game this? It's like, okay. I got you. You got me We're going. Mm-hmm. Okay, Eva wins final four, that she's gonna take Joe to the final trial council and that Joe's not gonna- 100%. 100%.

I would be willing to think that that is the case. Well, even in a scenario where it's like, okay, let's say Eva wins final four fire making. She's like, Joe, I have to take you. You're my person. And it's like, okay, well have to take you, you're my person. And it's like, okay, well, then who's gonna beat Kyle? Like, we gotta get Kyle.

That's not their attitude. Like, that's just not, you're thinking of like schemer mind, not honor and integrity mind. You know, honor and integrity mind, it's like, we protect each other. Whoever gets there will face them in, you know, duel or truel. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I like honor integrity survivor.

Well, maybe you need to like look inside yourself to see what that's about. Yeah. Look. I mean, is that more fun for anybody? No, I mean, no, no, of course not. Of course it's not as worst TV. Yeah. Yeah. But I just think it's going to be very straightforward. And I think that that's like it's a bummer. But I just think it's gonna be very straightforward. And I think that that's like, it's a bummer, but it's like, it's like a season, you know?

It's not like this is the only one we get. It's like, it's nice for there to be some variety. Highs and lows, differences. That's what makes life beautiful. Differences, okay. All right, Steven, this challenge, congratulations to Camilla who ends up winning, really fun ending to the immunity challenge.

I thought this was a really good one this week. Oh yeah, also how do you feel, question for you, how do you feel about Jeff saying shout the word out? Because then it's like, I'm sure that's like a rubber banding mechanism where like, for the people who have no idea, when someone is shouting a word out, suddenly everyone knows what the word is

that they're looking for. Do you like that or do you not like that? No, I didn't mind it. Kyle had a funny moment, evocative of like where Wendell had the moment in Ghost Island where he thought he won the challenge, he stepped back, he didn't say anything. Kyle thought he won the challenge,

starts like sauntering off, feeling like that he won, and then Jeff's like, no, no, that's not, that's not right. Uh, we mentioned the Joe moment where he's spelling. I don't know if he just thought like, make any word, uh, make like, uh, just put the, just assemble the arch. I don't even know if he had thought he had to make words. Um, but then so many different, uh, misspellings of unforgettable. Yeah. Um, really quite, quite very, very. And then why unforgettable? and then so many different misspellings of unforgettable. Yeah, really quite, quite very, and then why unforgettable?

Unforgettable is not a survivor word. I think that they probably ended up having like, it needed to be like a 12 letter word or however many words that there are. And I think that they probably, there was not a variety of like 12 or 13 letter words that were available. Yeah, let's, yeah.

All right, this is one for chat GPT. Like what's a better word for this number of letters than unforgettable? Hmm, yeah. Yeah. That's what you are, Steven. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

I feel the same way. It was an unforgettable finish also to this challenge where it's back and forth with Joe and Camilla and you really, there's a great moment where Jeff's like, Oh, is Camilla going to do it? She's like, yes. And then her and Joe are neck and neck and Joe puts his last block in and Jeff award, Joe wins immunity, he's got it. And then we get, and I look at the word is spelled right, but Jeff notices that up the I is facing the wrong direct, not the letter I, the I is facing the wrong way

and that Camilla wins immunity, incredible. Yeah, it was a very, it was very, very fun. I did think then, like, this is his David moment, like a narrow challenge loss. Everyone sees the opportunity. And actually that is why this episode I felt was a little exciting because it seemed like it was going to happen. I thought that there was more, like last week was just like no change, like nobody was even entertaining. Like at least we went to tribal council thinking that there could have that Joe could like up until the points they read the votes that there was a chance of like, Oh, okay. I mean, there was three votes for Mary and one vote for Joe. I still there

was in Schrodinger's voting earn, there was still a possibility. The next three votes that came out were going to be Joe, Joe, Joe. That was at least a possibility. So that's why I'm not as down about this episode as last week's episode which was like okay well who's it gonna be is it gonna be Mary or star at the tribal council well right and that's why I thought like I thought there was a really good chance Joe was going home and like that's a tense thing that can they get it together and like obviously there would have been like a whoa they did it if they did it.

But there's also like an interesting, whoa, they didn't do it. You know, that's kind of exciting in its own way in terms of how badly they effed up. All right, okay, here's what Chad GPT has for us. 13 letter words themed to survivor. Outmaneuvering, but with a British spelling. The Americans spelling is 14 letters.

Is unforgettable a 13 letter word? 13 letters. Yeah, unforgettable is is unforgettable. A 13 letter word. Did we get 13 letters? Okay. Yeah. Unforgettable is 13 letters. What else you got? Disappearance. Okay. Backstabbingly. Backstabbingly is very good. Not this season now.

They were like, we're not backstabbingly. Like, no, it's survivor 48. We're not doing that. Integrity. Immunization. I mean, hey look, that's, they don't ever really call winning immunity immunization, but it's at least akin, but maybe. Underestimate?

Too controversial, yeah. Underestimate. Underestimate is very funny. Yeah, underestimate is, I think underestimate is good. Yeah. Better than untrustworthy. What is it? Untrustworthy. Untrust it? Untrustworthy?

Untrustworthy, not this season, not so over 48. So Owen Knight is really gonna hate this segment. Owen Knight really does not like silly uses of ChatGPT for good reasons, because it's got such a high energy cost. So some dumb thing that I just did, figuring out other fun 13-letter words, at what cost to the world? But you brought enjoyment to tens of thousands of people,

though. OK, if tens of thousands of people really did enjoy that, then it was worth it, Owen. Yes, OK. For Camilla to win this challenge, I thought this was a real bounce back episode of Camilla, who had also been sort of like on the sidelines these last couple of weeks on the show.

First off, I would have never have picked Camilla to be the winner of this challenge, because when we last saw this in Survivor 46, it was a wingspan, right? And so that that is like, you feel like, okay, this is not Camilla's challenge, but yeah, that she was able to, I, we saw her figure out the word puzzle first when Kyle needed the hidden immunity idol. And so she's so good at this. I was so happy when she ends up winning. She ends up having to throw it together for the, I believe first ever sushi reward on Survivor.

I went to take on sushi. You don't even think of sushi in a tropical environment. Not like a. I mean, so many things. It's like, like not for anything. And listen, I love, you know, a good sushi. Okay. But you know, when that we're at the I remember when the final seven reward used to mean something Instead you're on survivor. Here's your reward

Rice and fish. Yeah. Yeah, we have that at home I need to take back the no sushi on a raw in a tropical environment statement, but sushi without refrigeration is another story. Cause who knows how long this sushi has been sitting around in like the heat. Yeah. It's not like the fish just like flops up and they give you the piece. It's like, this is hours later.

They got production, they got the cameras, you know. Yeah, I'm sure they do. Bacteria. Like they do a decent job of refrigerating everything. I'm sure they figure it out. This is millions and millions of dollars spent on this everything. I'm sure they figure it out. It's millions and millions of dollars spent on this show I'm sure they figured out sushi, but I'm just saying like listen chicken and waffles was novel but I feel like that we're just trying to come up with new stuff that we haven't done before and

Sushi is probably not a top 100 survivor reward. Yeah I don't know. In your time, I guess people clamored for going out for sushi maybe. Oh yeah, and just like the flavors, it's not just like another clam or whatever. It's like the richness of the soy sauce. You're making the case for it or against it? Oh yeah, I think I would have liked sushi to be honest with you. Because it's delicious and it's filling,

but it's also got protein. I don't know. I mean, also I do think that they try to base the food rewards based around what the contestants are talking about. We definitely found that to be the case in Cambodia. When we were talking about things, because the camp chatter will kind of fixate on a few things that people are like really excited about.

And then like magically those things will be the rewards in a way that I think is like both fun for the contestants and also just like motivating with the contestants. Yeah. So my guess is they were talking about sushi a lot. What do you think about Camilla's picks here? She goes with number one pick, Mitch. Mitch, who never gets to eat. But so you have to take Mitch on every single reward? Yeah, Mitch never eats, therefore we always pick Mitch. What about Mary? Yeah, no, well Mary's going home and she's eating all the coconuts.

So that would be a bad move to take Mary. And then Eva gets to go on the reward, which I kind of like that it's sort of like, okay, we're gonna lull her into a false sense of security. I thought that was you know, keep her and just feeling like, oh, you're part of the power group and I'm trying to curry favor with you and everything's going fine. And it sure seemed like she had a false sense of security based on, you know, to your point, the fact that she mentioned that she was not going to play her idol. Yeah, I just and I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I just feel like there seems like that there are,

that Joe and Eva, yes, they are really, they are doing some things well, but it seems like that they are, there are so many holes in their game that seem like that they are open to being vulnerable. There are giant gaping exhaust ports on the Death Star that it feels like that the players could hit and are just choosing not to.

Let me say what Joe is doing well though, because it's not just like passive Joe. I mean, we see him this episode. He goes up to Kyle, how you feeling? How you feeling about the four, everything good. My guess is Joe checks in a lot with his alliance. I think he is constantly being like, hey, how are you?

Everything good. And he's an intimidating presence. I think he is constantly being like, hey, how are you? Everything good. And he's an intimidating presence. Yeah, yeah, those eyes, my gosh, he's so intense when he stares at you. Yeah, so look, but I feel like we've talked about the things that they are doing well and that they really like, this is not a game relationship, this is an emotional relationship.

Joe makes this very clear with his allies. But that's good old school strategy. That is what Survivor used to be. That's what Kim was so great at. Those were the skills that you needed to build a strong alliance. And we haven't seen a lot of strong alliances that have stuck together till the end.

I don't feel like that's quite the Kim Spradlin game. I think that Kim was beloved. And I think that, but I don't know if it was necessarily like that it was that you were emotionally handcuffed to Kim. Like I think that Kim was that people that she was like the queen that her subjects just love so much. They all wanted to stay in her good graces.

Well, people weren't aware as much back then of that sense of like, I should make a move, I have to make a move, you know? And that's where I think the handcuffs more, it's like, I feel like Joe's game is similar to Kim's in that way where like, people like wanna stay in his good graces, people really respect him, people really like him,

people trust him, people feel bonded to him. And then I think this new era game is where you get that sense of like, of handcuffs, where I'm supposed to be doing something else, but I don't want to. And now I'm like talking myself into reasons why I shouldn't do that thing. Yeah. All right, Steven, are you ready to give out your accolades for this episode? No, this is going to be one I'm punting on and asking you about.

I've got some thoughts, I guess. I'll give you 10 seconds to think about it. I'm ready. Oh, if you get it down, get pissing, it's time to move on to fishy. Not a broken award that rewards losers for losing. It's the coveted fishy award. Okay, Stephen, I do think this is a tough week

for the fishy. Yeah, I mean, the obvious answer would just be to give it to Joe because again, everybody talks about Joe and because of these emotional relationships he's built and fostered and this kind of just like honor and integrity talk that has sort of dominated this season Yeah, I think that you know, you could be like well, they should have voted for him and they didn't so kudos to them Yeah, or kudos to him. I think there's a world where you give it to

This is tricky, I think this might be the toughest one of the season. I mean, Joe is really the only person. Can I make a case for somebody? I got one other, let me get this other. David is my other because A, the standing up is a real game changer. I bet there's gonna be a lot more action, a lot more standing and sitting on tribal.

And I do think David's talk of honor and integrity is still has a lasting effect. I think that is like affecting the tenor of the season still even like past his being booted and in a way that is like really constraining a lot of these players. Now you tell me what you're I would make a case for Camilla, who goes on and wins immunity in this episode, which is great, but that's not the real reason why I think that she deserves the Fischy Award, is that I think that she is the player

who most improved her position in this episode, where I feel like that she was very close towards the bottom, maybe not on the Mary level, but I feel like that she played her way back into being Kyle's number one I think that she's playing a lot of the camp life really perfectly where even though she's trying to work with Mary on the side She's throwing Mary under the bus in terms of how she's eating the coconuts She's taking evil with her onto the reward

so I think that Camilla could potentially have set herself up to maybe if, where I think this is going, where they squeeze Shaheen out, where now I think that Camilla might be squeezing her way into the final four. I don't know. I mean, Camilla had a plan and it failed.

That's not fishy worthy. It wasn't her fault. She tried to do something and didn't succeed. It was not. It's not her fault. Ultimately it is her fault. It's ultimately always your if you can't get it together then in some capacity is your fault. Like if you fail to do the thing you're trying to do, then you it is your fault. Right? Like obviously like maybe it's bad luck that she was on this season with these people who have different you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

but like if we're describing any kind of agency to a survivor player beyond luck, then like being unable to execute your plan is your fault. And we don't know why the plan didn't happen. I mean, and we can ultimately, you know, close with that in terms of like why it didn't happen, but I feel like that, you know, Camilla like brings all this stuff to Kyle, like she needs Kyle to turn his key and like brings all this stuff to Kyle, like she needs Kyle to turn his key and he won't do it. And maybe he's like, okay, I'll tell you about my secret job.

I'll tell you, okay, maybe tomorrow we'll do it. But you know, I can only ascribe so much fault to her for she's bringing the move to the person who needs to make the move and he won't do it. But then she's not convincing him, you know, like if she can't convince him, that's partially on her, right? Like if you are the strategic mover of the episode, which is what the fish is supposed to, you know, reward,

then like you should be the person who makes it happen. It was a week that there was no strategic movement. Maybe she should take it. Maybe she should, you know, at some point does she have to say, all right, Kyle, you know, enough of you, I'm dumping you, I'm going, hey Shaheen, me, you, Mary, Mitch, let's vote out Kyle. That would be a fishy worthy move,

but like saying you have a plan and not doing the plan is not a strategic move. It's not that she like procrastinated doing the plan, Kyle won't do it. But she also could not convince I'll like if you are the whole point of being like a Super strategist is like you get people to do your plans Even in spite of the fact that they are being recalcitrant But the problem is that she is the strategy person and Kyle is supposed to be the person who works on the social

relationships. The problem is that she doesn't have a Kyle to go work on Kyle. Anybody can come up with an idea. I watching them can come up with an idea, but I can't make it happen. Like I see a lot of things that I would think could happen on this season of Survivor. But if you can't pull it off, what use are you? I mean, that's not the season. So I don't know, Rob. So rather than Camilla, you're giving the fishy to the guy who got voted out of the game three weeks ago? Well, he did something.

He meant to stand up and he stood up. I'm here for the meme, let's go. Fishy for David? Fishy for David or fishy for Joe? That's the real question. Although I feel like, I mean, I just like, I hear you about Camilla. I do. And I want, my heart wants to give it to Camilla. But like, she didn't actually do her move. And David did complete the stand.

He set a low bar and he surmounted it the mill and she came up short. Yeah. Okay. All right, David for David for standing up Can't wait to see the fan cam It'll be iconic All right Okay, Stephen anything else that you have for survivor 48? No, um, I Know that's it. That's it. All right. Well, let me tell you about what else is coming up Of course, I will be live on Friday. Thank you to Maryann for filling in for me on the survivor Q&A last week

I was in New York City. I got to see Stephen Fishback. We had a wonderful dinner. It was wonderful. Last weekend, first time I saw Stephen Fishback in person since 2022. Since the... oh yeah yeah yeah. I saw Stephen in his stomping grounds of Washington DC. his stomping grounds of Washington DC. Yeah, we had a lovely lunch. Dinner, oh, what are you talking about, in DC? In DC, yeah. I think we had just coffee. Coffee, all right, maybe a pastry.

I don't think I ate anything, I think it was just coffee, but we had a wonderful dinner this past weekend, and great to see you in person. Yeah, it really, it really, I'm really torn about this fishy thing, Rob. Also, cause I know I'm gonna get blamed for it, you know? Like part of me thinks like- Yeah, but you know what, the people will look,

it'll like, it'll be fine. I don't know. I mean, I do think like, I mean, Camilla's trying. You know, she is trying. She is trying, but look, we can't go back and undo like 20 minutes of the podcast. Why not? It's a silly thing. It's a silly thing. I think you're right, though. Also, just for like... Okay, I'm gonna give it to Camilla. I think you're right.

Walk it back. Yeah. Okay. Is it two fishies? Is it two fishies? So many fishies this week. It was such a strategic episode. I do think, I mean, probably Camilla played the most strategic episode. David's funnier. David is funnier.

David's funnier. Camilla did probably have the most strategic episode. You know, the reward choices were good and made sense. The Eva thing made sense. You know, she knows she's doing the right thing. You know, she got, you're right that she like cemented Kyle. She knows she's doing the right thing. You're right that she cemented Kyle. She kind of pulled Kyle over to her side.

And that might actually be decisive, right? Like even though it didn't pay off this week, we do have this confessional from Kyle of, I was torn between Camilla and Joe. Now I'm team Camilla. And that really did seem to be because of Camilla. She kind of reeled him back in this week. Last week he was really considering more going with the four and this week he kind of like

woke up. And she really established herself on the right side of food etiquette, of coconut etiquette, you know, and that's probably, but I do think there's probably something to that, you know, where it's like if you can, you know, show how great you're being around camp, that sort of like increases your status among the group. So even though she wasn't able to pull off this big blindside, she did have a lot of like small moves that I guess were better than standing up. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Everybody please stand for Camilla now winner of the Fishery award. Yeah. She is doing like the teacher's pet game of like, uh, like, oh, do you see Mary is eating another kind of, she doesn't care about Mary eating coconuts. Yeah, and I do think this is the right choice, Rob. It took me a minute because I thought it was so funny

with the David thing, but I do think this is the right choice. And it's a weak episode and it honestly like, she did some things, she did some little things. Okay, all right. So I will be back on Friday for the Q&A. Patrons can call in 3 p.m. Eastern, robinswebsite.com, slash, patron. Of course, Survivor is better when you have a tribe and we've got the best one around over at robinswebsite.com, slash, patron. Of course, you can also see things like a collection of all of my postseason interviews

and also Josh Wiggler and I star the Wandoff that we have gone through and are watching Survivor Heroes vs Villains, a double episode aired 15 years ago this week as spoiler alert Candice and Danielle went home in one episode. Wow. Big episode. You could watch our reaction to the Wandoff for season 48. Lots of fun. I don't know if you caught any of the Wandoff this week,

Stephen, but great creative entries from our listeners, including from the creator of the fishy theme song, Eric James Barger. Wow, I'm excited to listen to that. theme song, Eric James Barger. Wow. Excited to listen to that. Rob, I still remember your exit interview with Danielle in Heroes Versus Villains. You do. Oh, it was very memorable.

First of all, I was at the Equinox on Union Square. So I was getting swole. So that was memorable to me. But also, I remember Danielle, she was explaining how she was the mastermind of that season. She was like, and then I controlled Russell, and here's what I was doing with Parvati, and this is my plan with the heroes. And it just was really like, everyone really is, and I feel like that was really where it was like so clear to me, like everyone really is the hero of their own

story. I feel like that was kind of like where that was the most clearly articulated for me. Like, you know, from Danielle's point of view, she was running the game until it got upended for her. And it was not a story we were seeing on television, but like from everyone's perspective out there, they really are. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It's probably how we all go through life. Mm-hmm, exactly.

And then occasionally you see your own tiny insignificance in the vast churn of the universe. And you take some kind of pill for that. Do you think that there's, that is an issue with reality TV where I think that many of us may have like main character syndrome where we all feel like in the movie of our lives,

we are all the main character, but sometimes people go on one of these TV shows, but then it's presented like they're a side character. That must be something that is very difficult to cope with. Yeah, well, I do think that is, I mean, that was sort of my, you know, my last blog about Surrey, Cambodia was like, getting voted out is like you getting shunted immediately from like

recognizing that you are the main character or think believing you are the main character to recognizing, Oh wow. I'm just like a side character. Like I was a complication for these other characters, you know, and you really see that very austere, very starkly in that, in that, yeah. Yeah. In that moment, it is a very tough thing. Yeah, really. Then also we had this week, the Genius Game UK is rolling along as the Wurtenberger bros are here to talk about every single episode. Our friend Dwight Moore joined Zach and Cory

to talk about episode three of the Genius Game over in the We know the genius podcast feed and then all night long we've been chatting it up with the glitterati over on chat BCC join us for free skip the waitlist go to robbinswebs.com slash VIP chat for that on chat BCC Stephen anything fun coming up for you? No, I mean get stay in touch with all the cool Stephen Fishback related things on StephenFishback.com. Where could we go for that? StephenFishback.com. S-T-P-H-E-N-F-I-S-H-B-A-C-H.com. Rob, I feel bad that I mentioned I said like you take a

pill for that when you're you know you see your own cosmic insignificance. I was referring to, you know, I didn't want, well, there's kids who listen to this podcast. I didn't want them to think that it was some sort of endorsement of, you know, a crazy lifestyle. You know, I was just talking about getting the, you know, some, the useful psychiatric drugs that can help modulate. Thank you for cleaning that up. I don't think that anybody took your words the wrong way.

Well, I'm really spiraling now after the whole David Camillo thing, so it's like everything I say, I'm like, is that okay? No, everything you say is wonderful. The listeners, I mean, how long have we been doing this? This is what, the year 13 of the Survivor Know-It-Alls? Wow, and this is 13, it's an unlucky number. This is where it year 13 of the Survivor Know-It-Alls. Wow, wow. And this is 13, it's an unlucky number.

This is where it all goes wrong. Have the listeners ever truly taken you to task for something that you've said in 13 years? Probably. I don't ever remember you being dragged through the Twitter streets. That happens all the time, I assume. I just don't check Twitter now.

I think it happens more for things you tweet than things you say on this podcast. Yeah, maybe so. Yeah. I can't believe- It says context here. Yeah, right. The context, right.

Yeah, context. I can't believe we got over an hour on this episode. I think this is the longest Know It Alls of the season. And it's like, I thought we were gonna be lucky to get 30 minutes on that episode. No, we did a great job. So thank you all so much for listening. I love to read your comments after the episode on Thursday morning.

So thank you so much for joining us. Of course, if you haven't done so yet, what are you waiting for to hit the subscribe button if you're watching us here on video and if you're not, go to watch RHAP.com. I've got a busy Thursday coming up to talk about all this and everything else going on over on RHAP. Thank you for joining us.

Take care. Have a good one. Bye.