RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Ep 12

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 48 episode 12.

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Hey, the sun won't wait. Visit Specsavers.ca for details. Conditions apply. The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they've won the game a million times Well, actually they didn't really win the game at all Survivor, no way to hold Survivor,-It-Alls Steven and Rob went out and down Got the game all figured out

They know it all Yeah, that's right! The Survivor Know-It-Alls are back! And we had an episode to talk about baby and- Things happened. We are so back here with the great Stephen Fishback. Stephen, how are you? I'm great, hyped off an episode that like,

I truly believed the whole episode, it was not gonna come together. And I was wrong, I was wrong. I believed it was not gonna happen. Yeah, we have so much to talk about here today because I think that this was a really interesting final six and a lot to break down from different perspectives.

I think I have some very interesting takes on all of this. And so we'll get to all of that. But first, it's a momentous day for one of the Survivor Know-It-Alls. And for once, it's a momentous day for one of the Survivor know-it-alls. And for once, it's not me. Whoa. Yes, it's a huge day for me. Huge day. Let me be the first to congratulate you on the on REJP on Stephen Fishback's long awaited novel is now available for pre-sale.

It's truly like, it's insane. I've been working on this book for 10 years. And so now that like people can buy it is just mind blowing to me. I have like poured my soul into this book. So let me make the pitch because, or let me tell you about it. How about instead of making the pitch,

I just tell you about it. So the book is called Escape with an exclamation point. And I was really prepared to fight for the exclamation point because it communicates excitement. And they just let you have it. Yeah, they were like, yeah, that's fine. So I didn't have to fight. There's no story there.

But I, so it's about a, something I know very well, a has been reality TV contestant who goes back or who goes onto a new show. If you read my short story, well, I'm like flustered. Like I'm talking about this. Let me let you catch your breath here because this is such an exciting day because I have worked so closely with Steven

over all these years. And I know how much work he has put into making this novel become a reality. Even in the last year, all the edits and the revisions that Stephen has had to do. It's an incredible achievement to get to this point. And I'm so thrilled for you that finally people are going to have the opportunity to read. Could you imagine what Stephen Fishback could be that had been working on for 10 years? This is like the Manhattan Project. Well, that's sort of like, I'm like, gosh, like, gosh,

what could I have done in 10 years? Yes. Thank you, Rob. That's really, that really means a lot. That guy was getting a little misty eyed. Well, it's an incredible accomplishment. And, you know, I'm so happy to that, you know, I know how long that it took for this all happening

to have this be the day that people are able to finally put in that order. That's very exciting. All right, so let me try again. All right, escape exclamation point is about a has been reality contestant who gets a shot to like reclaim his former glory on a new show, Stet, in a tropical jungle.

But while, so while there you've got, you know, all of the other scheming contestants, but you also have the producers. So the other like major character is a producer who herself has had this huge scandal because of a tragedy that happened on a show that she worked on. And so she is trying to redeem herself on this show

by kind of pushing her imagined story arc. So the two face off, everybody has an agenda. There is like the chaos of all the different contestants. There's the office politics of the different producers. And of course there's the very real dangers of the jungle. Now, if you think me writing about a jungle reality show sounds a little on the nose, it is a work of imagination. It's a totally new show that I imagined.

I interviewed literally hundreds of people, past contestants from dozens of different reality shows. I've interviewed producers, I've interviewed camera people, audio people, just to make sure that this really captured, you know, the full experience of like what it's like to be on a reality show and what it's like to make a reality show. I mean, the thing that it does take from my personal experience is like the feeling of what it's like to be on a reality show, you know, like the stuff that I feel like has never really been represented in a novel, you know, so many

books about reality shows are like, you know, it's like the vapid fame whores who just want their shot at celebrity. But the people I know are like people who go into these experiences, like really seeking something, like looking for meaning. And then they find themselves caught up in this sort of, you know, big churning apparatus

that's like turning them into, you know, a caricature and how they resist that and how they go along with it is a lot of the drama of the book. So I tried to make it funny. I tried to make it thrilling. Hopefully it is all those things and you can pre-order it now at stevenfishback.com. Please pre-order it.

Pre-orders are like so important. Like they're more important than like post orders. So even though like you're not gonna get the book for a few months, it like, it's like tells the publishing house, you know, hey, like people are interested in this guy, like maybe we should promote him. It tells like book shops,

like people are gonna be buying this book. Like, let's like put it, let's put it in a prominent position. Like truly like the next half of my life is dependent on how many orders I get. So please go to this book. Would you say your writing career is truly in the hands of the fans? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah, it's not wrong. But yeah. And they can vote with their wallet of like, do you want to see Steven go on to have a very successful career as a writer, that if yes, go to stevenfisherback.com. Or if you want a boring, awful future for Stephen,

you know, it's like, do you want idols and blind sides and big moves? Or do you want a dud season that everyone is disappointed by? And that's how my, that's how the future of my life is. Yeah, all right, well, Stephen, I know that the book is gonna be great. I know that the first part of it

has already been a piece that has won awards. Yes, so the first section won like a pushcart prize, which is a really prestigious prize for like short fiction. And if you don't care about short fiction, you've never heard of it. My parents were like, we're so proud of you, but we have no idea what this means. But it was validating in terms of the whole endeavor.

Yeah, okay, well, more to come, I'm sure on the means, but it was validating in terms of the whole endeavor. Yeah. Okay. Well, more to come, I'm sure, on the book, but congratulations again, StephenFishback.com. We've got a lot to do here on the podcast this week. I'm very excited. What a great week that we have coming for you here in week 12. Charlie Davis is going to join me and then Bryce Isaiah on the old school interview coming out on

Monday so week. Yeah banner week as we get ready for the finale one week from tonight and we're on the street Steven are you staying up late with us next week? It's unbelievable. I'm going to do it like for the first I will be I'll be I'll be on vacation with my family I've already like like asked the hotel where I'm staying, if I can like have like a business center room. So I'll be, you know, hopefully the connection is good. So we'll break it all down for the finale,

but first this big final six vote. And I did think that you survivor has given us so many great final sixes over the years. And this was, I think, that on that level in terms of the drama that went into this. And Stephen, I thought it was such an interestingly structured episode because it was Kyle and Camilla's big move

to flip it on Shaheen, wrongfully accuse him in some ways, even though he did have an idea about Eva. But I felt like that the story was presented so much from the perspective of Joe, the person who got God in this episode. Well, this was like, that was the big drama. It's like, A, you're one, I mean, it's so funny because like Joe had immunity

and yet it was all about, is he gonna figure it out or is he going to get like the wool pulled over his eyes? And like, it felt to me kind of like a, like, is this a winner's edit or is he going to get like the wool pulled over his eyes? And like, it felt to me kind of like a, like, is this a winner's edit or is it not? You know, like, is this like, is this Joe's moment where he like proves he's playing the game and has the reads that he needs? Or is this like the moment where he loses it?

And then Kyle or Camilla, if they get to the jury, like they've got their their resume piece. Yeah. And I have so many different things that I'm thinking about this episode, but I guess, okay, this is the thing that I've been dying to ask you about that. Now I kind of feel like that after this episode where Shaheen goes to the jury and now we know how David feels on the jury. That I'm starting to wonder if Eva, the biggest Joe stan, as Shaheen called her, is sitting next to Joe in the final three. I'm starting to wonder is that could this season be shaping up indeed to be a Kyle win? With Camilla in fourth place really leading the charge for a Kyle win,

and is it possible, because, and I'm gonna bring in like some of the rumor mill, okay? Is it possible that we could be gearing up to potentially a Kyle win and Joe is on Survivor 50? Oh. Can I posit that? Well, so interesting.

So first of all, I wanna like say, I think there's a world where it's a Camilla win. Where Camilla, cause Kyle has like been so much, I think he's got the most confessionals. I mean, as of last week, he had the most confessionals of anyone in the season. And that person is often not the winner. They're like, they'll like, and there's so,

I mean, that's not like a reason to believe someone will win or not win, but so much of Kyle's story has been like, can I do it? Can I not do it? Will they, won't they? Now this was his move, but I kind of feel like Camilla is the one who has like this room to pop. You know, like Kyle's been such a big character

and like the biggest part of their duo. So that could argue for him being the winner. But at the same time, you could argue like, this is like now Camilla's gonna come in. She's part of this duo. She takes out Kyle as her kind of winning move. And then she's kind of got this tiered, it's like a Marianne moment

where she's like this sort of plucky underdog who comes out of nowhere. And then you've got Joe who's in a lot of ways is kind of like Mike Turner,dog who comes out of nowhere and then you've got like Joe who's in a lot of ways is kind of like Mike Turner you know in the kind I mean both both firefighters but also like both these guys who are like honor and integrity guys who played like somewhat commanding social social games and then but like weren't necessarily like the savvy movers and um but I I'm very intrigued by the question of Joe on 50 because does Joe have like returning player heat? Like he's got the least confessionals.

Well, I'm just wondering where if Joe, and I'm trying to think about this like from the perspective of, because Joe's, it's been so much of Joe's story in this season and that I think that we have speculated in this podcast, okay, well, Joe could have that winners edit where, okay, we're really seeing Joe's story, but could this be kind of like a Russell Hans in Survivor

Samoa where the show knew that they were bringing Russell back and so, okay, we're really going to prop up Russell here. And just the way that this story was told where that you don't often have this in Survivor where the player who is on the receiving end, imagine like we got Operation Italy from Sue's perspective last season. Yeah, right. Like, oh, that's good.

Like, oh, okay. Like, what's that? What's gonna be the reaction to the people doing the like, we saw the people that were pulling off the blind side, sort of like got like peanuts, Charlie Brown, like teacher, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. We were like inside Joe's head while it was all happening and it wasn't because he was getting ready to play his idol it was just like

him sizing up what was going on and I just think that's interesting I don't even know if this is what I think is going to happen but I just think that it's there's some intrigue going into this finale that I don't think this is necessarily a done deal that Joe is going to be crowned the winner next week. I think that there is this other, I know you love to be building worlds, Stephen, both in your fiction and in Blood on the Clocktower.

And I think that there is a world that you could build where we are heading towards a Kyle win potentially. Or a Camilla win. I just think it's like a Joe loss. So the difference, oh go ahead, go ahead. And I love Camilla. I just feel like that she's been rather invisible at different points,

especially in the post-Merge, where I feel like it was so much Kyle's story, that where Mary Ann did pop at the final six, I guess there is this universe where Camilla makes a big move at five and then ultimately takes out Kyle and then she is seen as this person who like made this really big move. So there's a world, I just don't feel like it is a likely scenario.

Yeah, I mean, listen, the comparison to Russell Hans is interesting because Russell Hans in Samoa had like more confessionals than the entire rest of the cast combined, right? Like this was the Russell show. That's an exaggeration for comic effect. However, it communicates that Russell was a big character on that season.

But Joe actually has a surprisingly small number of confessionals. Like he like has the, as of last week, he had the second least. I think only Mitch was lower than him. Camilla had more confessionals than Joe. I kind of feel like Joe is this like, the story is kind of like being told around Joe,

but Joe isn't really telling the story. Okay, so that's kind of like the meta of all of this as we're like factoring in everything. But let's talk about from the actual game perspective here because I had been speculating that, okay, a move was coming, but I didn't think that either Kyle or Shaheen was going to take the move,

or make the move on Joe or Eva. I thought that they might be looking at each other. We actually got on the reward, Shaheen was considering, okay, we should make the move on Eva. Now, I don't know if that ever got off the ground because Shaheen did not write down Eva's name at tribal council. Shaheen did not seem to think that Kyle or Camilla or Mitch was going to be voting with him to take out Eva. So I don't know how, where that plan ended up petering out for Shaheen, but it was enough

to get Kyle's wheels turning to think, okay, now we'll frame Shaheen for making a move against Joe and Eva. Yeah, well, and I think like at one point you have kind of Shaheen saying, I think it was to Kyle, like we shouldn't vote out Eva because, you know, she's not going to win the game. And then we've got Eva on the jury, like advocating banging the gong for Joe. Yes, so we don't we don't vote out Eva, you know, just for strategic reasons, which I think is the correct read. Um, but it was so interesting the way that Shaheen saying this to Kyle kind of gave Kyle the moral permission.

And so much of Kyle's story has been like seeking out that moral permission, um, to go ahead and sort of like make up this ruse, which was half truth, like, you know, hey, guess what, like Eva is, or sorry, Shaheen is talking about blindsiding Eva, and then half a lie on top of that, which was this whole idol story. And I'm curious, like, what do you think, like, I thought it was like ingenious, you know, like, okay,

so because it's built on truth, there is something there, it's enough for Joe to like grab onto. But the idol is what really sells it. The idol is kind of like where the meat is because suddenly, how long has Shaheen been keeping this from me? Yeah, well, I think that the idol is really the part of it that makes it, that is sort of like booby traps

at where Joe can't double back to Shaheen and then say like, hey, I heard you have an idol. Cause where Joe can't double back to Shaheen and then say like hey I heard you have an idol because like you don't you can't say to him because then he'll play his idol at tribal council I can't write him out so that's the thing where and Joe was trying to feel around to see if he was going to be able to get that but I almost wondered if it was maybe too much of that couldn't you just go back and tell Joe, hey Joe Shaheen on the reward, talk to me about, and then maybe is it then does Shaheen say like,

no, no, Kyle brought that up. That was Kyle's idea. And then it's like, he said, she said. Well, in a way that like, what's interesting is like, I think that the addition, and I had that thought too, like what do you need that extra like flourish? Like what does that give you?

Because it's like verify, it's sort of verifiable, right? Like Shaheen can like empty his pockets, he can empty his bag. I mean, ultimately you can never like prove the absence of something, but it becomes more of something that could be fact checked.

But what I think it does is that it makes them move, you know, Kyle's own in a way. You know, if he just went back, oh, hey, guess what? Like it makes the move, you know, Kyle's own in a way. You know, if he just went back, oh, hey, guess what? Like Shaheen said this, you know, basically is a tattletale, you know, like he's not like making a move. He's just like repeating information. But if he like creates this little like flourish on top of it, then he is making it his own kind of like strategic thing out easily.

It's like making a strategic meal out of this. And also I think like, you know, if he just went back and said, hey, Shaheen said this, you know, Joe could be like, yeah, and Shaheen's always running scenarios. And probably Joe would feel some paranoia about it, but he might not think like, oh, that means he's coming for me now.

But the fact that there's this other thing that like allegedly Camilla has seen too, all these people have seen this idol, but like Joe hasn't seen the idol, you know, like why is he keeping it from me specifically? I think like adds this level of betrayal to it. And you're right, I think like you've got to make them move in secret because of that.

And that kind of like makes it harder for Joe to straight up confront Shaheed. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey everybody, Rob here. Over the years, I've seen the conversation around mental health shift in a big way. And for the better, there used to be so much stigma around therapy, like it was something you only turned to

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Visit betterhelp.com slash RHAP to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash RHAP. Let's talk about this from Joe's perspective, because this is where I think that there's a lot of interesting ways that Joe could have handled this. So we see after they all get back from the challenge that it's Kyle who comes to Joe and tells Joe hey Just so you know Shaheen he has this idol and he is thinking about making this move tonight He wants to vote out Eva and we see Joe. Okay. I need time to process all of this. He's gonna talk to Camilla and Camilla says yes Shaheen showed her the idol. And then I thought it was interesting.

Tree fell on Camilla while she was trying to lie to Joe. It was a crazy moment, yeah. It was like a fraud, which I can be quite happy, yeah. Yeah, okay. Anyway, that's- As we knew from Gabler. Well, I think it was a signal to Joe, like, hey, Joe, like, this person's lying to you.

But Joe takes that information, okay, he's gonna sit on it, he talks to Eva, what do we do here? What do we, how do we approach this? And Joe ultimately decides to go with Kyle and Kamala. Now, it's so interesting because we had this very similar scenario earlier in the season on the Thomas vote, where once again, Kyle and Camilla conspired to get one over on Joe and Shaheen.

And it does not seem like that that is really a consideration, and that happened like 10 days ago. Exactly, it's not, yeah. A long time for us, but not a long time for them. It was a long time for us. In reality, I think that was like day nine or whatever, day 10, and this is day 22. So this happened like 12 days ago.

And so, but it does not seem to really be front of mind for Joe that Kyle and Camilla got one over on us once that could they be doing this to us again? Yeah, and maybe they don't believe that like there was one gotten over, you know, I mean, like they I guess they did have the whole like, yeah, um, interesting. Yes. Well, it's sort of surprising that was six people left in the game. Nobody like somehow this alliance is still secret. Like, how do you believe that? Like, is it how secret can it be? I mean, they're the you know, there's two people from the they've been on the same tribe every single day. Yes, somehow they've got like a secret alliance. They're running off into the woods together.

Like there's six people when you're playing Survivor, you know where everybody is, you know, you know, who's in an interview, you know, he's going to the water well, because you're always worried about who's, you know, looking for idols, because you're always worried about who's looking for idols, and you're also worried about like, who's talking to who? And with literally five other people, you're just keeping track. Everyone knows where everyone is. So the idea that they can have a secret conversation,

and it could like somehow be a secret alliance still, like what does, explain this to me Rob. I also don't really know what does Camilla do when she's not with Kyle, because we see the scenes of Camilla with Kyle, but we don't really know what does Kamila do when she's not with Kyle, because we see the scenes of Kamila with Kyle, but we don't really explore Kamila on her own too much when she's not with Kyle. She was just lying there with Mitch.

She just lays there. Yeah. Okay. She and Mitch were just lying there. So I have some interesting way that Joe could have handled this, that I want to posit to you, and I wonder if this is Joe's best move here in this scenario. He knows that either Shaheen or Kyle or Kyle and Camilla or

maybe just Camilla somebody here is lying to Joe. Is Joe's best move to just vote out Mitch. That for Joe, that the status quo benefits Joe more than anybody else. Everybody else benefits by Joe changing trajectory here. So whether it's, okay, go with the, you know, go with Shaheen and vote out Kyle or go with Kyle and Camilla and vote out Shaheen. The best option on the table is whatever he needs to do to make sure Mitch still goes home, because I think it's very unlikely that after this, that Shaheen and Kyle are going to be on the same page. That's a really good point.

Like, no matter what, these guys are opposed. I mean, I guess the fear is that like you actually think Shaheen is gunning for you or gunning for Eva, but like, he knows, like, like suddenly you feel at risk at the final five and, and, you know, maybe even at the final four, but, um, to your point, like, well, well, but what Kyle was saying was that Shaheen came to him, right? So from Joe's perspective, there's a world of a Kyle Shaheen came to him, right? So from Joe's perspective, there's a world of a Kyle Shaheen-Camilla alliance

at the final five that he suddenly has to protect against. And it's basically down to him winning immunity because Eva has an idol, right? And so like, if he believed, but you're right. Like if he believes Kyle's got his back, he's good. And if he believes Shaheen has got his back, he's good. I love that. I was just like recording, if he believes Kyle's got his back, he's good. If he believes Shaheen has got his back, he's good. I love that. I was just like recording,

I just recorded Tyson's podcast and we were saying like, why doesn't he just sit back out all the info and let the two of them fight? But I think you're right, even better than that might just be letting it all, just like sticking with the status quo. Because I think that there's an interesting way

that this could have gone for Joe. And listen, Joe is not Suri, Joe is Joe, okay? But if Joe and Eva come to Shaheen and basically, you know, they feel like, okay, the plan is going to be Mitch tonight, okay? They're going to put they feel like, okay, the plan is going to be Mitch tonight. Okay, they're going to put this. So, okay, that basically like you could either out Kyle's information very close to tribal council and say like, hey, just so you know, like we're going with like Kyle told me that,

you know, about your idol and everything. And we are like, you know, they're not with you. We're voting out Mitch tonight, okay? This is what we're doing, okay? So you have three votes on Mitch, Kyle and Camilla still voting for Shaheen. And maybe it's even like, hey, Shaheen, make sure you play your idol tonight, okay?

That now there's two votes on Shaheen. That's a great idea. Be like, you gotta play your idol tonight because you're getting votes. Yeah, I'm sorry. I think I have this a little backwards. I think if you tell Kyle and Camilla that no, the plan is not, okay,

thank you for bringing this to my attention, but we're taking out Mitch tonight. That Shaheen doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. He's not gonna be able to do anything because let's maybe get him to flush his idol tonight. But basically just keep the votes on Mitch because that for Shaheen and Kyle, like they're not getting back together.

And Joe's best case scenario is him and Eva and Shaheen who's like never made a move go to the final three. Yeah, I love that. I mean, the only danger there, I really love that because I think you're right. Like you can't like at the final six and even Joe seems to say this. And I actually like, we have to give like props to Joe

because he actually, based on last week's trailer, my read was, oh, Joe's gonna be so paranoid. He's gonna be spiraling out. The Shaheen thing is gonna blow up. He actually handled it pretty beautifully, right? Like he didn't get the correct result, but the process was great. You know, like taking a step back, trying to assess,

is Kyle lying to me? Okay, Camilla could be lying to me. I'm gonna go talk to Shaheen. Then at tribal council, you know, trying to feel it all out. Although it is kind of funny because there was this whole drama of, is Joe gonna figure it out at tribal council?

But even if he had, there was still like, everybody else was still voting for Shaheen. Like, I guess he could have like created a tie vote, you know, against his own alliance if he'd wanted to. But he did kind of think through it beautifully. But you're right, I guess the only danger there is, let's say he says that, there's still gonna be three votes on Shaheen in that world.

So he is still, like Mitch, Camilla and Kyle three votes on Shaheen in that world. So he is still Korea. Like Mitch, Camilla and Kyle are voting for Shaheen. He, Eva and Shaheen, let's say they vote for Mitch. It's a tie vote. Shaheen is... Well, yeah. So maybe you have to tell Kyle and Camilla we're voting for Mitch, tell Shaheen, okay, we're not, we're not doing this. Or that they were coming for you, but we're voting for Mitch tonight. And then if anything, you get them arguing with each other, Kyle and Shaheen, and Mitch is gone, and they've lost the Mitch piece. And so Eva and Joe, with Eva's idol,

they are still, both sides are gonna be fighting for Joe and Eva. Yeah, that's a really good point. I really love that idea. That's a really, really smart, really love that idea. That's a really, really smart. I mean, there is just the risk. I guess like if you are worried that Jahan is actively targeting Eva,

I don't know, like is there a danger? Like I think, I mean, I guess you could have Eva play her idol if you're truly worried about that. Yeah. And then figure it out from there. But I just think that there is a way that you could have still gotten Mitch out there. And that, look think that there is a way that you could have still gotten Mitch out there.

And that, look, that there's, the numbers are a little complicated. And again, I'm trying to think of this on the fly. The people out there are there, but if I'm Joe and Eva, I think that the right move is still get out Mitch, because Mitch is the one pawn on the board that one side could use against me. Yeah, that's a really good point.

The other thing is I think people get into this binary idea of he's coming for me or he's not coming for me. That's me, I'm always thinking outside the box. Yeah, but if you're, and I think Joe kind of had this sense of, obviously, these are smart people. Like they know that it's like, I could beat them.

Like they have to be thinking about targeting me. And I think being able to separate that of like, okay, people are thinking about moves. People are putting moves out there. That doesn't mean they're making those moves, you know, and even if they want to, like maybe tomorrow they won't want to do that. You know, maybe like, and so like,

I really like your strategy here because suddenly their overwhelming self-interest becomes to like keep the Joe, Eva duo. I mean, there is a world we're at five, right? Like the fear would be that Shaheen, Kyle, and Camilla get together at five and vote out Joe. Like that has to be Joe's fear. So if he thinks, hey, Kyle and Camilla are with me

and Shaheen is against me, um, voting out Shaheen here and like, I guess, like considering Mitch's disposable, it seems like nobody, like, nobody's worried about Mitch being that swing vote at five. No, nobody's worried about Mitch being that swing vote at five. And I predict that Mitch will get voted out at five also. I think so too. I agree with that. I mean, but do you think,

like I feel like on any other season, we'd be talking about Mitch as a finalist because you know, he doesn't seem to be a factor in the game. Yeah. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I do think Eve is gonna be a zero vote finalist. Yes. Unless Joe gets voted out.

But yeah, do you think that there's a world where Mitch makes it to the end? Like- I don't, because I think that Kyle, I mean, the one world where he makes it to the end, I guess is potentially if the scenario that you talked about where Kamila decides to vote out Kyle at the final five.

If she decides to do that. And again, I don't know if there's three people that will write down Kyle's name at the final five. Right, because if Joe and Eva believe Kyle, like Joe is not gonna turn on Kyle here. No. So it's possible, I think the likely scenario is they just vote out Mitch at five.

And there is some, there does seem to be some fear that he's got like a powerful story. Mitch could win immunity, I think otherwise Mitch is done. Because even when Kyle comes to Camilla with like, hey, I've got a plan for us and hey, good news. We're both, this plan is gonna get us both to the final four and one of us is gonna get to the final three.

That the plan that Kyle brought to Camilla was not like, hey, I got a great plan for both of us to get into the final three. That their plan was, hey, we will get from six, I'm gonna get us both to four and then the ride is over and then I'll get to the final three and you can vote for me. Well, but I think like he's gotta be aware

that they will probably be in fire making against each other. And I think that's my get like they have like Eva's gonna take Joe, Joe's gonna take Eva. So unless one of them wins immunity, they have to assume that they're in the fire making against each other, but that benefits them. Like if either of them wants to win,

they need the other one there and the jury being like, we gotta vote for this guy. So. It's a good scenario for Kyle moving forward. And I will say with another immunity challenge win tonight, we talked about this during season 47 with Kyle, where, hey, if Kyle breaks the record for most immunity challenges,

doesn't he have to be on survivor 50? I don't think one person's talked about the survivor of Kyle 47 coming back for survivor 50 since then I know but yeah he didn't quite get there with the record either But you know Joe could Joe could Joe's two immunity challenges away from breaking the record. It's entirely Possible that he could do it. And he also had, I think, the one last week, I mean, Camilla won just like that,

where that easily could have been five for Joe at this point. So even if he is not a confessional beast, like if he breaks the record for most immunity challenges in the season and doesn't go on to win, like I'm just wondering if you know if somebody from survivor 48 is going to come back I think that so many of us have just Seated the victory to Joe and thought about maybe there's somebody else who gets to the end like a Kyle could come back for 50

I just wonder maybe maybe we had it backwards Maybe it could be Kyle who wins and Joe who comes back for 50. And I really think this could have been like the why Joe loses moment of like, you know, whoever's there, whether it's Kyle or Camilla at the end. And you're kind of convincing me that Kyle is clearly the bigger character here. Kyle is the Charlie, right, of this duo.

Charlie also didn't win for what it's worth, but Kyle is the Charlie. You know, the story is much more told from his point of view in terms of that duo. Though I do feel like Camilla has been more on point in terms of like Kyle's kind of been wishy washy, but okay.

I don't even know what else to say. And I don't wanna make it like anti-Camilla. I love Camilla. I think that she is like the like best game strategy person on the season. I just think that she's been underrepresented in the story. It's been much more Kyle's story. And in the movie, Camilla is Kyle's friend.

It's not Camilla as the star of the movie. But like, isn't there like a Kenzie story here where, you know, Kenzie wins against this much bigger character? Like, could Camilla be Kenzie, you know, in that world? But it's just that they're part of a duo and the person in the duo that we've seen so much more is Kyle.

Is Kyle, yeah. Kenzie wasn't necessarily like, you know. You're talking me into the Kyle win. I mean, like, this has been a story about Kyle's, like, journey to making this big move. Yeah. The biggest moves of the season have been Kyle playing the idol, David getting voted out,

and now Shaheen getting voted out. And Kyle is a big part of all three of those things. Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And I do think like, this is the sort of thing where, it's like Dee in Survivor 45 had her like, this is where I got one over on you and the jury rewards that. If Joe wins six immunities, would you feel,

you're a juror, do you feel, are you voting for Joe if he wins like you did, you broke a record? It's a very strong point to vote for him. I think it's just like, what is the case against him? Where if Kyle stands up in that final trial of council and talks about, well, actually, I got you to vote out your best friend. Then we made up that story and you got duped and you voted out your other best friend David because of what we told you so yeah Joe

did great in the challenges but he at the end of the day didn't really have his finger on the pulse of what was going on he thought that I was with him in this alliance built that honor and integrity. And I love the guy. This is one hell of a guy, amazing dad. I wanna be like him when I grow up. But I was the one who was the brains of the operation. Like I was the one who actually was pulling the strings. Yeah, do you think that, yeah, I mean,

I think that's like a tough argument to come back from. And I also think, especially a new era survivor, people really favor some sort of secret move or move that someone made. I do think like an old era survivor, you know, the strong, strong silent guy could beat the the savvy strategist in a, in a final, but I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life, but you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. the case anymore. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile. Different is calling.

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I want to ask you about this from Shaheen's perspective because he had such an interesting episode also. He starts by winning the reward challenge and he gets put in the unenviable position of having to pick the people to go on the reward to get the letters. He picks Joe, he picks Kyle. Oh, the really no appreciation from Kyle

for Shaheen taking him on the reward. Did not buy him anything at the end of the day. Yeah. So then we get to see that Shaheen, his wheels are turning and he feels like, okay, that we have to do something, you and I, we have to make it happen. And ultimately, then we see Kyle go to work after that. We have to make it happen. And ultimately, then we see Kyle go to work after that. Shaheen, after the conversations with Joe,

is there anything that he can do where it's like, oh, I just got a really, I've been with Joe for 22 days. He's talking to me in a way that he's never approached me before. He's obviously being passive aggressive about something that could Shaheen have done anything. I mean, looking at it from our perspective, of course, we know like what's eating at Joe. And we know that like, oh, what if Shaheen just went to

Joe and said, hey, something's come up between us and I want to, you know, figure out what it is because, you know, it feels like you're worried about me and I'm worried someone put a bug in your ear, you know, not in the, you know, survivor, whatever that was, way where there's a bug in the woman's ear. But, you know, Jennifer Lanzetti. Yeah. Exactly. Speaking of people who stood up. Yeah. Maybe ever. But, but yeah. So, you know, I do think you looking at it from our perspective, of course, you know, that there's like a way that Joe is like trying to work through this. And like, if only Kyle, I'm sorry,

if only Shaheen had gone to him and said, hey, you know, let's like figure this out because I see you're really upset at me about something. It was funny that like Joe claimed he was going like full parent mode and Kyle was like full kid mode, you know, like, oh, dad is mad at me and I hate dad. And like, oh, why is dad treating me that way?

But yeah, it was a good moment. I was rooting for him. I really was rooting for this group because it did feel kind of like Shaheen, you know, what guy, he got set up. Were you rooting for the plan to come together or for Joe to figure it out? I mean, I was hoping for the plan to come together because for Joe to figure it out? I mean, I was hoping for the plan to come together

because I wanted to see some kind of swing happen. Some sort of action. I do feel very badly for Shaheen who ends up going out in this way. First off, Shaheen's mom was referenced quite a bit in this episode. I had the chance to meet her at the Survivor 48 premiere event

and she was in fact as lovely as advertised by Shaheen in the episode and so that was cool to you know you hear about somebody on the show, but then if you know who they are it's yeah, you know a nice thing for Shaheen. I wonder about Shaheen the juror and how he's going to approach this. Big question. Yeah. Now he stands up after this and he's like, hey, is anybody here going to give me a hug? But in that moment, Shaheen is processing this information is like, yes, I played the best game. They had to get me. They had to get me because I was going to win. And so, okay, it's this is a respect move. They had

to get me because they were that they couldn't get past me. Now, not that Shaheen played a bad game, but ultimately the reasons why they had to take out Shaheen at this spot was not necessarily that they felt like that they could not beat Shaheen. And tell me if you feel differently, but it was more that Shaheen was clogging up a spot in the final three with Joe and Eva.

And yeah, like a spot in the final three and just giving them kind of like overwhelming leverage at five too, right? So if Kyle and Camilla want to get to four, they can't do it without getting rid of Shaheen and this is the moment. And so Shaheen goes to the jury and potentially maybe Mitch,

eventually maybe Camilla goes to the jury and explains to him like, No, oh actually, yeah, uh, Kyle said, told Joe that you had the idol and that's why Joe voted you out. And when Shaheen learns that it was not necessarily, oh, it wasn't that we couldn't beat Shaheen, we were lied to about Shaheen, we got tricked into voting out Shaheen. How do you think Shaheen processes that? Is he mad at Kyle and Camilla, or is he mad at Joe? I think the narrative on the jury is going to be,

Joe claimed to play this honor and integrity game, and then he sold out his allies when, you know, when Kyle got out of his head and made him sell out allies when, you know, when like, I got out of his head and made him sell out his allies, you know, like he got rid of David, like you said, like he got rid of Shaheen and like, this was not an honor and integrity movie. He gave us his word and then he cut us the soon,

as soon as this like paranoia started to get to him. And I think you're right that like, here he is giving hugs, but when you're voted out, like you're the star of the show. I've talked about that before, but like, everyone's talking about you, you're getting your torch snuffed, you're walking down the path, but when you're voted out, like you're the star of the show. I've talked about this before, but like everyone's talking about you, you're getting your torch snuffed, you're walking down the path, like they're giving you your interview,

and then you go to the jury house and you're not the star of the show anymore, and you're just fuming about it. So like to your point, like you're processing here, you're like, it's a big moment, but like later is when the bitterness and recrimination set in. And I do think like, it's a big moment, but like later is when the bitterness and recrimination set in. And I do think like, especially with a potentially

bitter jury that I could see Shaheen, I honestly could see Shaheen like being one of those guys who gives the like the speech that absolutely like burns Joe but then like votes for him anyways, like, ah, I still love you guy, here it is. I really do think that, and I have like complained loudly about the post-merge, but I do think that and I have like complained loudly about the post merge, but I do think that the finale does set up a very interesting final tribal council scenario where potentially with its Joe, Eva and Kyle, what is this jury going to do?

And is Joe going to be able to articulate to the jury why he should win the game? You know, is Eva going to, you know articulate to the jury why he should win the game? You know, is, is Eva going to, you know, stump for her herself? Is she going to stump for Joe from the final three? And then you have the wild cards of like, if Camilla is that final juror, does she really, you know, stump for Kyle at Ponderosa and then make a very compelling case as sort of like four person of the jury to be able to like swing the votes towards Kyle. I think it's gonna be a really interesting

final tribal council if it ends up being Joe, Eva and Kyle. I bet, yes. And then Camilla is there or Kyle for a flip. But like, is there like to provide credibility to all of these claims? I mean, that's unbelievable that you have receipts. Kyle can say, I had a secret alliance. Camilla's over there on the jury.

Yeah, you did. You know, if they're next to each other, like it's so much harder because they're like, no, you didn't have a secret alliance. I had a secret alliance. You know, but now like Kyle can be like, and I got this big move and Camilla can be over there like, yes, he did, you know?

And so like to have that kind of back and forth with the final juror, who really is the most influential juror, it's really, you're selling me on this world where it's Kyle, because I think you're right. That would be a really satisfying ending to this story. And we know that, or we've heard that Jeff is hype on it. So the idea that it is Kyle who triumphs over

this Joe, Eva duo that's nominated this season, really makes a lot of sense to me. And we've got, yeah. And Joe and Kyle standoff in the final drop of council with kind of like a trip to survivor 50, you know, maybe as the consolation prize for the loser. Like there's a lot of intrigue. I can see Kyle, I just don't,

I feel like Joe does not have the number of confessionals. Like he clearly is not like the best confessional giver. And this is like the Joe season, right? This season, like, it spoke to him. It was like, this was the season where all the stars aligned. He found this like daughter figure, you know, he like had this like breathtaking, beautiful moment where he got to honor his sister and say like goodbye to her.

You know, he had like David over there as like the other honor and integrity guy and they could like have their honor and integrity off. It just felt like the stars aligned for like this to be Joe season. But like, would you cast Joe again? Like I love him as a character. I don't know if I would cast him again.

Listen, he is not my personal cup of tea as like one of my all time survivor character favorites, but I could tell you that My mom watches the show and this is her favorite character by far It's not necessarily the amount of confessionals that you have that went like that scene With Joe talking about his sister tonight in addition to the scene with Joe and Eva These are things that are not necessarily captured in confessional counts, but they're moments that connect with the audience.

And I think that Joe has had a few of these where he's got, as Shaheen said, he's got these, like, he'll walk around with his shirt off all the time. But he is, like, he's got a great look for survivor. He is a fan favorite to a lot of people who watch the show. And so I think that if he does not win the season, like, I think that he is like a very viable, I think to be one of the returnees they bring back.

Yeah. I mean, I hear you, I do hear you. I just like a returning season is such like a different beast than a new player season where so much of a new player is that sense of discovery and like learning how to play the game and like connecting as humans and the returning player like, you know, if Amanda Kimmel's out there,

like she's not gonna like connect as a human with Joe. You know, she's like, I'm here for my paycheck. Let's go, fourth time's the charm, you know? That's how she is? No, she's great at connecting with humans. Well, she probably, I mean, like all these like, Steven, they brought back Beast Mode Cowboy after he collapsed in a challenge.

It was a different era, it was a different era. Yeah, but especially when it comes to like a recent, a returning, like from a season, like you don't even have had to have made like a gigantic impact. Sometimes it's just like, oh, this person's hot off of a season, like you don't even have had to have made like a gigantic impact. Sometimes it's just like, oh, this person's hot off of a season, boom. And maybe, you know, if Joe doesn't win the season

and Survivor 50 was in two years, like maybe not. But I think that especially if he ends up getting the consolation prize in the season, like I certainly could see it. Yeah, look, I really think Joe brings something cool and unique to the show that a lot of new Arab contestants don't, and I think that I would love to see him

because I think it would be an interesting balance to the group. And I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I would be a very like, Kyle, here's your million dollar check and Joe, here's your ticket to Fiji. From Fiji to Fiji.

Yeah, round trip. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you about Shaheen here, Rob, because a lot has been, Shaheen has certainly talked about his own great game. Could Shaheen have won at the final three against Joe and Eva?

I do not think so. And maybe we could see, maybe if it goes on to be where Kyle wins against Joe and then, you know, Shaheen looks at this like that could, that should have been me. I would have been there. This jury was very upset about the way that Joe treated them. I talked to all these people on the way out the door. I had good relationships with Mary, with Mitch, with, you know, all these, these you know Chrissy, you know All these people as they went out the game as they were all cursing out Joe and maybe he feels like that He could have won it. I think that

Shaheen's path to get to the end I think he had these numbers of like these different people that would have worked with him I think he needed to take the shot at Joe earlier. You see him, he's thinking about it. He talks about the patience that he's had in the game, but I wonder if there was an opportunity, maybe as recently as the last episode, when Joe did not win immunity,

and there was potential of Joe, I'm sorry, of Shaheen, Camilla, Mary, and Mitch, that he could have had four votes against Joe at that tribal council. Yeah, I mean, I just, I said at the time and I think it's true. Like I think it's true from a change perspective, you know if you vote Joe out at seven, like you're gone at six.

You know, like this is the thing that's keeping you safe. So, I mean, even in this episode, he was talking about you know, when do I make this move? Do I wait till fire making and hope I can get him out there? Like, do I wait till five? I kind of think like it's hard with someone who's winning challenges so consistently as Joe, but like, I do kind of think you wait till five or like, you know, you wait till the last possible moment and that seems to be the way to do it. Right. Well, you're all in on that moment though. Then, you know, the person wins immunity and it's like, well, okay, well, I guess that's the. That's the risk. Like it's like, you know, like Kyle said last week,

it cuts both ways. You know, you vote out the person too late and you regret it forever or you make the move too soon and you're gone next. I mean, like you just, the stars have to align, but I think what you have to do is like, you figure out the best time for yourself and then you kind of have to hope the stars align.

So I think it's interesting because that in the case of the two hosts of the Survivor know it all. I think that if you were gonna say and point out each of our flaws, I think maybe you say to Rob, hey Rob, you made the move too early. That you were not able to flip on Alex at seven and then make it all the way into a two

in a season. That's the final two. Stephen, perhaps it was too late to wait that there was no chance to vote out JT because then he is going to go on and win these immunity. I stand by my choices. I made the right listen. I hear those criticisms and I stand by it. But apparently Kyle, apparently when he said that he's apparently he continued to say like Stephen Fishback

So he was like as Stephen Fishback regretted, you know not making the right move But anyway, so I didn't mean to interrupt I I still think it didn't work out But I think it's still thing was the right call because I think if I had voted out jt at seven Which I think was like the you know, I would have been gone right but in your You know dreams when you were out there because he's he he's not gonna win the immunity at some point and maybe we could take a shot. And I was very close to the immunity at four and three.

So like, three we drop a ball at the same time. No shade whatsoever. I'm just saying that you draw it up of like, okay, well I have to get, when he is vulnerable, then we have the opportunity to make the move. Yeah, but it's a balance. And like, if I had been right and he had lost immunity, I would have won.

I made a choice, I still think it was the right choice. Even, I think the risk at seven of voting him out was greater than the risk of waiting, especially like, even looking back. And again, there's maybe like, everyone always has to justify their choices. There's plenty of choices, I have second guessed in my life. But that was the correct one. You're doing great.

Your book is available for pre-sale right now. I was just trying to- If I'd won the million dollars when I was 28, you know, probably I would have written the book faster. No, probably you would have been like rubbing elbows with the glitterati. You wouldn't have had time to write the book. Same thing for me if I would have won my season.

We probably wouldn't be here right now having all the fun that we've had. We'd have put it in crypto in 2008, my God, I'd be a trillionaire. Yeah, I'm just trying to illustrate that, we're two sides of the same coin. Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you, but that's it, you're right.

And so I just think, but I'm trying to illustrate, you kind of have to just take that risk, and you say, this is the way I'm gonna play it and Whatever, I have to like hopefully it works out and if it doesn't I I'm Loser. Yeah, and I I'm saying the same thing of I'm saying like I come down on like you have to take the shot And then you'll figure the rest out after Like this it's not enough foregone conclusion that the bad thing is going to happen to you next.

Like that's, that's, that's tomorrow's problem. But it's not a foregone conclusion that they're going to win the challenge. I mean, especially, you know, you don't even know what the challenge is. You know what the social dynamics are. You can read the room. You have no clue what the next challenge is. Yeah. And, and pick a bad choice and go with it.

That's it. don't look back. That's survivor, baby. Yeah, it's like in Fast and the Furious 3 Tokyo Drift when the character says, you know, life's simple. You make choices and you don't look back. I think I've heard that a lot. That's right, that's what we always say. All right, Steven, are you ready to bring us

Steven, are you ready to bring us the Covenant Award, the world-famous Fischi Award, sponsored by StephenFischback.com. Are we bringing sponsors? You ready? Yeah. Alright, the Fischi Award presented by StephenFishback.com. Oh, everyone get it down. If you say it's time to award the fishy. Yes. It's time. This is a tricky one this week.

Time to award the fishy this week. So this is a tough one. On the one hand, you have Kyle who, oh, by the way, like, should, should we just say, like, Shaheen might've lost the game when he invited Kyle on reward. Like, normally I don't think that like, you know, you can't like put too much stock in that, but like, if he hadn't done that, they would not have had that conversation. You know, Joe's probably off having a confessional about this emotional letter he gets.

So they're stuck there, two of them on reward. Like, of course they're talking strategy, they're running ideas. And then Shaheen kind of like, what about this? What about Eva? And like, boom, Kyle has permission. Shaheen begs to the survivor gods, please, why won't you ever let me win a challenge? I've been like, my legs are so beautiful. I never missed leg day, unlike David. And I have all these arms challenges. and then that finally he wins the reward and yes and then what fresh hell is this it was like a monkey's paw yeah it really was like truly I don't okay but anyway back to the more salient question of who should have taken who should have been the third person Eva I

mean like I don't think he made the wrong choice it's just like unfortunate that it happened that way like I think in these rewards, especially with the family stuff, even though there's only four days left in the season, people are so fixated on it. You kind of have to, who deserves what? Obviously, you get Joe to the family reward, and then Kyle's getting married, and I don't know.

Can I also just say that it was a little rich that Mitch was complaining about the whole thing. I know, he was supposed to get his reward last week or something or like. Well, he was complaining about not going on the rewards. He was also complaining about that nobody, oh, he's playing so stupid. He's not making a move.

Yeah, very funny. I did also like that the episode literally started with Mitch saying, I've been waiting to make a move and the time is now. Like I feel like every single one of the past three episodes has started with like Mitch being like, this is the moment, this is my moment. But that's why I thought that it wasn't gonna happen.

Because it's just like- Mitch is super frustrated. It's like, Mitch, you're frustrated? You're frustrated, Mitch? Yeah. Okay, so on the one hand, so there's two options I think, and I think they're both pretty competitive for who gets the fishy.

On the one hand, you have Kyle, who takes this little moment of truth from Shaheen and then creates this plan where he gets Camilla involved, he makes up this idea of a fake idol, and then he puts it into Joe's ear with the verifiability of Camilla as, you know, that like, hey, Shaheen is targeting you. He gets Joe to turn on his best ally other than Eva,

and sets up this incredible final tribal potential narrative that I think really might be a decisive argument for the jury of, hey, we concretely tricked you to vote out one of your best allies. And like we you have not been on top of the game like everybody thinks you have. So Kyle is a really powerful option here. Number two,

last week, David stood up on the jury and I don't feel like we rewarded that enough. I was talked out of it and a lot of people were really mad at me. So there's also the possibility of giving it to David there as a- I would bet my life you're going to make a case for Camilla. No, you went back to David standing up. I just think, you know, I didn't get the props that are- I did hear from people like, no, Steven was a coward for not giving it to David last week. I heard from those people too.

I gave it, you know. Okay, so last week I did talk you into giving it to Camilla. I think that David is the logical choice for the Fishy Award. Camilla has been pushing for Kyle to make the move for a couple of weeks and you have been astutely saying that yeah, it's like, yeah, that's her job. She has to get him.

If he's not going with her, she's doing a bad job. But at least this was the week where Kyle answered the call and ended up making the move and setting this all into motion and setting this up, where we're talking about potentially a Kyle win being a very likely scenario. I think it's a coin flip between Kyle and Joe right now. And because Kyle has put himself into that position,

I would say fishy for Kyle. Yeah, fishy for Kyle. I was joking. I mean, this is pretty much a no brainer. I was very like, I mean, I was ready to give the fishy to Joe if he figured it out. But it was sort of like a mono, a mono, like can Kyle pull the wool over Joe's eyes or can like Joe piece it together and one

mono one and that mono was Kyle. Yeah. This is a question I was thinking about and I would love to get your answer on. Is it more likely if you're on survivor and this to by a player or is it more likely that you are being trying to think of how I would describe the covertly lied to. Okay. So which, cause Joe was either that Kyle has made up a lie and has made up a untrue fact about Shaheen or Shaheen is secretly lying to me

and not telling me what he is doing. It's not like that they're both telling you something. Which is the more likely thing to have been true is what Joe had to answer. And I think the answer is probably the thing that wasn't true, right? That Shaheen is plotting against you because- Is the more believable thing?

Yes, because at the final six, everyone is thinking, Joe is thinking of himself as the biggest threat in the game, right? So he has to believe that other people are thinking of targeting him in that way. So it seems like it's totally credible that that Shaheen who has been his like best buddy is like, how do I get one over on my best buddy? Yeah. And I think the fact that Kyle brought Eva into it probably, you know, stirred Joe's protective

instincts in a way where he's like, I can't let that happen. Yeah. No, from Joe's perspective, yeah, it totally makes sense. I mean, Joe's saying, they're like, wait, what is it, the final six of a Survivor season and nobody's ever trying to make a move? It doesn't make sense. Yeah, someone's gotta come for me. Yeah.

How they would never have a season, a Survivor 48, all these players are so smart. There's no chance it's the final six and somebody's not trying to make a move. Yeah, I totally agree, yeah. Yeah, okay. Earlier tonight, it was announced that there's a new vote for Survivor 50.

And this is the first time that they put out a poll with just one question. Steve Fishback, should there be idols in Survivor 50? The people are dying to know. I can't even imagine. This seems like the biggest layup of all. Everyone wants idols. I don't even, I mean, occasionally you'll see someone

on the internet be like, what if we just went back to no idols? And then even, yeah. It's a straw man that Jeff brings up. He's like, and people say, oh, what if you just did a season without any idols? Well, there's a reason why. Like, okay, we could try it.

It just seems like to me that nobody, I, I, this is going to be like 99 to one. Yeah. Here's the only argument for it is that they can get in the players' heads on survivor 50, because the players in survivor 50, every one of the binaries, right? Every one of the choices is going to be something that they're thinking either they're doing it or they're not. What if, if see people are gonna be considering what if no idols do until day two when somebody finds the beware advantage? And then I mean, I think that you could have like should the idols be Regular or should there be beware advantages like, you know, should there be?

Advantages outside of idols in the game I think that those could have been very valid things to ask But I can't think of one person who's saying I don't want there to be idols Maybe how many idols should be hidden in the game like people like idols? They probably don't want seven idols You know at the point where you get some of these seasons like a heroes versus healers versus the hustlers Where Ben just keeps finding the idol, playing it, going back, finding it again.

I mean, I think that that becomes repetitive for the audience, but I talk to thousands of Survivor fans and I don't know anybody that's like, Rob, get rid of the idol. You'll occasionally see that one post, like why can't they go back to the old ways, no idols, 39 days. And then, Sean Rector, if he's out there, he'll probably, like, why can't they go back to the old ways? No idols, 39 days. And then, you know, I mean, Sean Rector, if he's out there, he'll probably be like,

what's an idol? You know, like he'll be delighted to like have no idols. Yeah, perhaps. Okay. Yeah. Steven, did you happen to catch my appearance on the drop your buffs podcast this week? I caught some clips of it and it was delightful. Yeah, definitely.

Check that out. Fun interview over on Drop Your Buffs with Sean and Evan this week. Stephen, of course, StephenFishback.com. Yes. Yeah. So again, like pre-order if you, if you know, just you want to read this book, you know, a book sounds good. You don't want to, you want to like burn it, you know, you want to, um, just support me. I just not encourage the book, you know, a book sounds good. You don't want to, you want to like burn it. You know, you want to, um, encourage the book burning, Steven. Okay. If the, if the sales lead to the burning, I'm okay with the burning. You know, you want to support me, you know, as, as kindness, you really want to stick it to me or this book to really screw me over. You know, that's a way to do that too. Okay. Stevenfishback.com coming January 27 27th. Okay, oh it's gonna be a big

birthday time this year. Yep, that's right. It's right after my birthday. So that'll be like a lovely present to me. But yes, please, it's a bit of a wait. So again, like some of my family was like, why would I pre-order this eight months in advance? I was like, no, it's really important that you do that. So please, please do that. Yeah. Okay, it's the same thing with Survivor 50. Why do I have to vote now? The season's not for a year. Like no, no, no, you have to vote now.

Yeah, the production is making the decisions now. Yes, exactly. Okay, all right, what else is going on? Oh, Patreon, Rob's website.com slash patron. Join us on Friday for the Survivor Q&A as so many interesting things that we talked about from this episode. I really do feel like that this was a real bounce back episode for this season setting up a lot of intrigue going into the final week. You can call in and talk about it with me live at 3 p.m. Eastern on Friday. Also, Josh Wigler and I are breaking down everything from Survivor Heroes versus Villains,

as we talked about that season's penultimate episode this past week and that final six. Who goes on there? It was Rupert went home. Spoiler alert. Yes. Okay. Also, speaking of Survivor Heroes versus Villains,

I got to speak with the great poverty shallow who was on Doing some press talking about that. She has a new book had a great interview with poverty You could hear that if you missed it this week That's both in the podcast feed and watch it in our YouTube channel at watch our HAP Dot-com guess what we've got big brother announcement Stephen podcast feed and watch it in our YouTube channel at WatchRHAP.com. Guess what? We've got Big Brother announcement, Stephen. Whoa.

Big Brother is gonna be back, I believe July 10th. And so luckily you won't have to watch one second of Big Brother 27, but Mike Bloom and Taron Armstrong got together to talk about what's coming up, including some 90 minute episodes for Big Brother 27. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, Wednesday nights will be 90 minutes.

Wow, wow, wow, wow. And there's also gonna be a Friday night episode of Big Brother that is. Is it just like all big, like is it a live feed on CBS? No, it's so I think it's, I believe it's Wednesday night, 90 minutes, Thursday night, and Sunday night, and then every other week on Friday, they're basically gonna have like a podcast on CBS

where three former alumni are gonna talk about what's happening in the house. Wow. Going all in on Big Brother, all right. All in, hey, look at that. Is it a big cast or like normals? I think it's a normie cast from what I understand. Okay? Yeah, Huh. All right.

And of course, you can chat with the Glitterati. We had so much fun with Rachel earlier tonight. You can join in on all the fun. Get ready for the finale. It's going to be lit. Join for free on chat BCC. Yeah, Rachel chatting tonight. That'll be fun. Yeah, robinsbrookson.com slash VIP chat for that. All right, Stephen, do you have anything to plug? Well, I'm in the book. Yes. Oh, okay. Yes, of course, the book. So you know what to do with that. We've got a lot of fun stuff coming up on Thursday.

Looking forward to talking to Charlie. Looking forward to my exit interview with Shaheen and looking forward to reading your comments as usual here on the YouTube channel. Thank you so much for listening. I thought this was a lot of fun tonight. What a great episode. Truly like, you know, like so much. It's like we've all been complaining for the past couple of weeks, but we love the pre-emerge, right? A lot of people like the pre-emerge. It's a very fun pre-emerge, I thought. And then, you know, suddenly it's fun today. It could be fun next week. Like a few bad episodes doesn't mean like we're in the worst survivor season ever,

which is what people have been saying. You know, Steven, that they say in stories, you know, you have a great beginning, you have a great ending. People forget the middle. Yeah. Yeah. The middle is tough. The middle is tough. The middle is tough. Look, we get an exciting finale.

We were like, ah, it's a pretty good season. I kind of think that's true. It's like nobody, and I remember in, yeah, I mean, some other seasons where that was the case, people were like, oh, why is this character still in the game? And then the character's gone and everyone's excited. Okay, all right.

Thank you so much, everybody. Take care of a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye.