RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Ep 2

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

This week, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 48 episode 2!

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times. Well, actually, they didn't really win the game at all. Yeah, that's right. Survivor know-it-alls are back here Wednesday night. Now that's how you do it on Survivor. Steven fishback, total stud move by the survivor. Know-it-alls. Great move by us to be like this total stud move total total study with a stud move is what it was he does uh when david did like a jump oh with the

dive yes yes jeff reeled david with a like it felt like he like a stud move i thought he said david with a stunt move oh he's a stunt man that makes a lot more sense I thought he said he David with a stunt move. Oh, he's a stunt man. That makes a lot more sense. That's why I didn't pick up on your reference. Yeah. You were like really going with it though. I appreciate that.

Look, yes and. And so we are ready to go here tonight. Makes a lot more sense. But stunt move has its own je ne sais quoi. Yeah. All right. Well, Stephen Fishback, of course, of many stunts is back here with us to talk about a very

exciting blind side tonight of Kevin really came out of nowhere. I look like, OK, Mary, then, oh, say. And then ultimately it swings around to poor Kevin, who just got his shoulder

dislocated. And then ultimately it ends up with a blind side second person who voted out of Survivor. Steven, how are you? I'm great. Wonderful to be talking to you. More importantly, how are you, Rob? Doing great. A lot of exciting stuff going on.

Just by the way, a little background information. So there is a news team here that they tell me it's not a hit piece, but they're gonna be talking to me for my local in focus North Carolina. It's gonna air March 16th, 1130, and I'll post it online when we have it. But if you see any people in the background, milling about, we have a team of people here taking a look at what we do

behind the scenes. So shout out to the live studio audience here today. Yeah. Finally, the expose that you deserve. Finally, this could be the takedown you've been waiting for. But Steven, we got so much coming up this week here on RHAP. Of course, tomorrow we're gonna talk with Kevin. Then the week of podcasting kicks off. And look at this. We've got on the podcast, of course,

something old, something new. That's what we're doing here in season 48. I will sit down with Kevin Davis on Thursday. And then in our old-school interview, and we had a great one with T-Bird this past week, your friend in mind, Sophie Clark, is going to join us for that. Of course, you could hear all that when you're subscribed. We know survivor.com. On Friday, we also are going to have a treat

that I am off to South by Southwest this weekend. I'm gonna be speaking on a panel there. So Owen Knight is gonna fill in for me on the patron Q&A on Friday for the patrons. You know, I'm seeing Owen tomorrow. For the first time ever, I'm meeting him in person. Wow. Okay. What's he like in person? You'll see. You'll find out. A lovable curmudgeon, they say. Is that right? Yeah. I've only seen lovable. I haven't even seen her much. Maybe that's that in the in-person stuff

I'll see well it if you want to hang out with survivors rub elbows with the glitter Ah, D head on over to chat BCC where we even and I are hanging out with all of our survivor friends Including Owen Knight including Owen Knight join the survivor group chat It is completely free and it's a lot of fun. Head on over to robbinswebsite.com slash VIP chat to chat about the episode live as we watch it. And all week long we talk about all the Survivor news that's chat BCC. Go to robbinswebsite.com slash VIP chat.

Stephen, I love this episode tonight. Yeah, very, very fun. We really saw all three camps in their different, beautiful iterations and I feel like we kind of have a sense of everybody. It's episode two and I really have a good idea who everybody is and kind of like a rough outline of their gameplay. Yeah, and especially for our purposes I really feel like that we have a lot of interesting strategic machinations to talk through in the three tribes.

And so let's start here on the Vula tribe, because I thought that this was such a wild turn of events. It really looked like that Mary was a sitting duck after she comes back from the journey, loses her vote. And now here she is. And then Cedric has the poor performance in the challenge, kind of is willing to throw himself under the bus, but Kevin is like, no, this is the time to take out Say, but he underestimates the relationship between Say and Cedric.

Yeah. And interesting. So, I mean, it really was this sort of like chain where then Cedric goes to say and says, you know, can you, it was such a great moment where he's like, can you, how much can you conceal your emotions? And she's like, good. And then he starts laughing. And I also, I thought that was like an oh-oh moment too, you know, I thought, oh my gosh, there's gonna be like some, but not at all. Like she did an amazing job of concealing her emotions. Then she goes to, to Justin, and

kind of like lays the groundwork of why don't we get out Kevin Yeah, is picked up I thought like shockingly quickly by Justin, you know, like, from what we had seen last episode into an extent at the start of this episode, it looked like Justin and Kevin were kind of becoming a duo at the sort of center of the tribe, but not at all. Justin immediately turned on Kevin, goes back to Cedric, and it's Kevin who ends up getting voted out.

It's such a great chain of, I don't know, it's a very quickly moving thing. Well, I think that there's a lot of interesting decisions to talk through from Kevin, Say, Cedric, and Justin on this. And so I guess let's go one at a time. Let's go through, Kevin says, "'Okay, this is the time to blindside Sey.'" Obviously results oriented,

that was not the right decision for Kevin. But do you feel like in a vacuum, was he thinking the right thing? Yeah, I mean, I think his thought processes is 100% makes sense because, you know, if you are committed to this three guy alliance, if that's the baseline, and you are assuming that your tribe is going to keep losing, which they have every reason to do, then you can't just think about this vote, you have to think about the next vote. And if they take the layup and vote out Mary here, then at the next vote, say has an idol and there's every reason to think she would play it at the next tribal council.

Yeah, so it's one of the three guys going home in that. And you know, you think maybe Kevin has a sense that Cedric and say are close. That makes it means it's either him or Justin. So if I'm Kevin, I'm thinking, yeah, like now is a great time to blindside Say. Like that idol is not making it intact to emerge. So like, let's get rid of her now and it. Worst case scenario, Say plays her idol, Mary goes home and Say's idol is gone with it.

You know, best case scenario, we take out Say, I get to keep my pocket ally, Mary. I honestly thought from Kevin's perspective, like the thinking was great. Obviously something happened, subsequent to the thinking that led to his ouster. So did Mary losing her vote, did that really screw up this plan for Kevin?

Because if Mary doesn't lose her vote, Kevin, Mary and Justin can vote out, say, they don't even need to involve Cedric if they want. Mary doesn't lose her vote. Kevin, Mary and Justin can vote out, say, they don't even need to involve Cedric if they want. Yeah, but Justin immediately turned on Kevin. That was the thing that was shocking, was like, even in the sort of, even when Say set out, at least in her confessionals,

she wasn't saying, I'm gonna flip this on Kevin. She's saying, I'm gonna lay the groundwork so people are suspicious of Kevin. So she goes and talks to Justin and he's like, yes great Kevin. He's out. No, like it's immediate So I think that I don't think maybe Mary having her vote would give a little bit more leverage to the situation where you know It's less cut and dried because you think okay, there's definitely gonna be these two votes on say, you know Do I trust whatever, you know, whatever anyone else say like maybe it would it would cause a little bit, but like purely numerically, like, no, it didn't actually end up having a decisive impact on things.

Okay. Cedric, he wants to save Say. He's in on this plan and he decides to tell Say to play her idol and vote out Mary. What did you think about Cedric's decision? Yeah, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, both from a moral and a strategic perspective, you know, why am I saving your pocket ally when I like, you know, when I got my closer relationship,

my pocket ally. I mean, obviously it's risky whenever you say like, to anybody, you know, don't tell anybody about this, like this, you know, and I think there was every reason to think that it could lead to a bigger blowup than it did, right? Like as frequently happens, I mean, not, you know, in these situations where someone says like,

hey, like player idol, they're all coming for you. It typically does not go exactly to plan, as the person planned when that person says that. But yeah, it made total sense to me from Cedric's perspective. Everyone know, everyone was playing a very rational sensible game So I've made you it played it perfectly. Okay before you know say I was saying that Cedric I think this kind of worked out for him better than his original plan Which I think that his original plan was okay

Let me just pretend I didn't tell you and then we'll sort of just okay surprise Kevin and Justin with what we're planning and he kind of would have been having to lie to those two guys Instead the way it works out. Okay, Kevin is gone him and Justin are like co-conspirators on this Right and he's actually in like in a better position I think then had he been okay I'm just with say but I sort of have this secret from the other guys that Say could expose at any point. By the way, Cedric was the one

that told me to play my idol. So I think he ends up benefiting this. Let's get to Say. Say, who could have been content to say, all right, I'm just gonna play my idol tonight. We'll take out Mary, who's been a thorn in my side, instead opts to go after Kevin. And so I would love to hear your thoughts about,

was that the right move for Say? Well, it didn't even sound like, I mean, again, like she was not even, I mean, particularly, it didn't seem like she was pushing that too hard, but again, yes, that makes total sense for Say, right? Where from Say's perspective, she learns that Kevin is actually plotting to blindside her.

You know, Mary voted against her at the last tribal, but it did seem like Mary was going along with Stephanie. And of course, if you're saying you think you voted against me, I don't like you and I want you out for that. Like you don't wanna encourage or allow people to vote against you without there being some kind of consequence to them.

But yeah, Kevin's the one who's actually plotting to get rid of her. So for her to, on Kevin makes a lot of sense. For her to play an idol made perfect sense. She knew she was a potential target. Even though she had, I guess, reason to think that the votes were going her way, she still did the cautious thing and played her idol,

which I thought was completely reasonable and a good move. I mean, really, everybody played this very well. Someone was voted out. Unfortunately, it was Kevin. But you you know, I'm sure David Bloomberg will have a lot of good reasons about why Kevin lost. But like, why tell me Rob, why did you spoil it? What went wrong for Kevin? So I think that he obviously underestimated the relationship that Cedric and say had and maybe I think stuck his neck out too far

to potentially keep his pocket ally in Mary. We saw that Kevin and Mary had the good relationship from the first episode after he came home from the sweater savvy challenge, that he's like, hey, I got a three-person alliance over here or four-person alliance over here. I've got a good deal going with Mary. And I think that he just overestimated how much

that he was gonna hitch his wagon to Mary. And this is something I've talked about for a while in the new era, that it is not often the person who's lost their vote that goes home. It is the friend of the person who lost their vote that goes home. And Kevin, you're friends with the person who lost their vote, you were their number one.

Yeah, that's very interesting. So again, like that's a really good point. Like people see weakness, nobody's defending Kevin and then he's gone. Again, I don't think this was just about Kevin protecting Mary, I do think that was partially part of it. It's a totally reasonable thing for him to be thinking about the next vote, given that Vula's terrible at now.

I don't think that Kevin made a horrible misplay, but I think it's so interesting from Say's point of view. Cause at first I'm like, oh, Say, I think that, you know, this was, you had the, the gimme, you had Mary sitting right there. Are you, cause I didn't think that Justin was going to go along with this. That I thought like, okay, Cedric said, don't say anything.

And now here you are now going to Justin. I didn't think that he would be in on the plan, but I have to, it's so hard to not say the word say a million times when we're talking about say, but I have to say that this, she did the Boston Robb move. If this was Boston Robb and you tell him, hey, by the way, I know you have an idol, but Kevin is trying to get you out,

so we're all gonna vote for you and then still vote out Mary. No, I know you have an idol, but Kevin is trying to get you out, so we're all gonna vote for you and then still vote out Mary. Like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. Then you're like the passive participant. No, you flip it, target the person who's targeting you, and she did it beautifully. I'm curious about this from Justin.

He said my name, he's gotta go. Listen, Justin. What? Justin is the one. Sorry, keep on stepping on your. You're fine. You're good. Do you want to do it again?

There's fish back. Keep it moving. Okay. Smotten up. I have a computer. That plays in my mind nonstop. The Boston Rob raps from on the Twitter. Yeah.

So the question is from Justin's perspective. Like that's the one that like interests me the most. Let's get into it. Does Justin, you know, is this a good move for Justin? I was surprised because again, the story we've seen is that Justin and Kevin are in the middle. Why does Justin make this call?

And is it a good play for Justin? Well, really, I think Justin, when we are actually looking at this tribe, Justin was the swing vote. It seemed like that there was maybe a pair, like Kevin really tied himself more to Mary, Cedric tied himself more to Say, and here's Justin, the person who's the swing

with two sets of threes, and ultimately the three he decides he wants to go with is Say and Cedric. And maybe he feels like, okay, well maybe that's the pair where maybe Kevin and Mary, he thought were going to be a little bit more cohesive. And maybe he feels like either he has a tighter bond with Cedric or with Say and feels like, or maybe this too isn't gonna last. And so I wanna hitch my wagon to this particular trio as opposed to the trio with Kevin and Mary.

Yeah, I mean, one interesting thing we've seen about Justin is that basically every conversation he leads, he's like, yes, I'm into this plan. And then the next conversation is like, got it. That's the new plan. I love it, which is a great way to be on Survivor. Yes. So, I think that, you know, you don't see that person as being part of any like strong,

at least certainly not yet. We don't see him as being any part of like any strong group, but it's certainly a very flexible position to establish. Now, are you a big Justin guy considering that you and he share an alma mater? Yes. Yeah.

Well, you know, I don't want a Yael to do better than me. So he can get up to the final three, I guess. Like middle two, if he gets like a vote, like then he's like surpassed me. So like final three is great. I'd love to see a Yaeli do well, just not better than me. Right. Okay. Yeah. I mean, there have been Yaelis

that have done better than me. I mean, you know, or as well as me. See, I thought Justin had a pretty quiet episode one and he was actually my winner pick coming into the season and I was like, I'm not feeling so great about it. He just talked about the pizza place. That was the extent of his content in the first episode, but I feel a lot better about it after this episode.

He's a quiet guy. What was it about his pregame that led him to choose the winner? What I really liked about Justin in the pregame is obviously, okay, so he has this wonderful education that we've already discussed, but also that he has the street smarts, that he's worked in the pizza place. He doesn't come across as an elitist, you know? And also he's got the long hair.

So he's got the combination of super smart guy got the long hair. So he's got the combination of super smart guy with the long hair. I think a lot of people look at him and he's probably like a dude bro with a pizza shirt on. So I think people are gonna underestimate Justin. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like I was thinking that too in tribal council is he doesn't come across as your stereotypical

Ivy league nerd. Who's just like, let me impress you Jeff with all my metaphors. Well, his metaphors are about pizza. Yeah, so let me impress you with all my metaphors. Um, well, his metaphors are about pizza. Yeah, it's got the one. He's staying in his lane. Very smart. Yeah. Um, yeah, so strong without like that. He's not like one of the most the biggest guys on the season. So he's sort of like under the radar strong too. So that was why I felt so good about him in the preseason. Yeah. No, I think he's good.

It's interesting. We haven't seen a lot from him, but I do feel like he's got longevity in the game. What's interesting to me is like, I think I was discounting, say a little bit because of how active, like she came out of the gate hot on Twitter. She had, yes.

And I often think- Like a Tony Blancho, Steven. Well, that's what I was gonna say. Like normally you see these people and they're like super active on Twitter and you're like, okay, that's what I was gonna say. Normally you see these people and they're super active on Twitter, and you're like, okay, that's classic pre-emerged Twitter. And so I think I was kinda waiting,

but there are those outliers who have those big personalities like Tony Blockchow. And after this episode, I think Say might even be in that category of this is just who she is. And it doesn't necessarily reflect her- She had 21 confessionals in the first episode, the most ever confessionals of any player in any episode

actually passed Tony, who did it in a one hour episode. But just, Stephen, just a quick aside. So I went to the Survivor Beach Drop last week, rubbing elbows with all the glitterati, and Tony was there. And I had a really nice chat with Tony, and he was telling me that he needed to get home, that it was his daughter's birthday, and had he's a great dad and Tony had like this whole setup for his daughter's 12 year old birthday party and he was

you know he sent me pictures of how he had it all set up and she was having all of her friends stay at the house for the night and he's like you see Stephen Fishback doesn't believe me that I have sleepovers here. A real slumber party. Yeah. Just to see if he gives any of his daughter's friends his phone. Yeah. So now I want to go back just to the decision that was made. We talked about it from the strategic point of view, but here we go.

And we've got the Vula tribe. They've lost two in a row, and now have voted out their best, I would say outwardly most athletic person in Kevin. Now, he is a little diminished in that he separated his shoulder, I believe, in the first challenge, but Kevin was not the person that was holding them back in the challenge. This, to me, seems like maybe where you could really pick apart this decision to vote out Kevin when you've lost two, you're already outgunned.

And now I don't see how this tribe is not headed back to tribal council a few more times in a row. Yeah, I see. I just that's where I disagree with you. I think they are. They are such a bad physical tribe that you're like not even thinking. Throwing out the window. You're thinking like, how do I get through this tribe into a merge? Like, what is the, and that's what Kevin was thinking, right? He's like, he's not thinking like, how do I like build a core alliance?

He's thinking like, what is the sequence of votes here that I can plan out so that I am most protected, you know, assuming we go down to three or two or one. But that's from Kevin's point of view. But what about from the rest of the tribe? I think they all have to be thinking that. They're thinking like, what does it matter? Like, you know, is having Kevin here

and, you know, instead of anybody else gonna change the fact that Loggy has Joe and Shaheen and Eva, like, no, you know, like, absolutely not. Yeah, so is Justin just sort of doomed that if it goes down to two, that he's kind of screwed no matter what? Well, that's the question. I mean, you know, there's a world where,

I mean, Mary has survived two tribal councils so far where she was potential target. So, maybe there's a world where something else happens. And I mean, that is the question, right? Like I do think that probably Mary's the next boot. And then, and that's where Justin probably went wrong. Like if it is two more boots before any kind of swap or emerge.

Like then you look back at this and say, Justin screwed up. If this is just a total blowout and Survivor 45 was the only season that we swapped in the new era. And that was another, I believe with the Lulu tribe that they had lost the three in a row. And then they ultimately ended up going and doing a swap there.

Do you think that that's where potentially this season is headed? I mean, I do think like, I think we are definitely going to see the collapse of the Vula tribe. So yeah, and so we'll see where we go next week. But it seems like that Mary is really, you know, there was a chance for her to have a miracle. And this is probably a good place to talk about the journeys that we saw in this episode. No journey in episode one, we had the journeys here in episode two, which I think this was also how they did in Survivor 45, where, okay,

I really loved, Steven, how they decided who was going to go on the journey. That it wasn't pick a rock out of a bag, it wasn't you all decide, they all had to do a game that really gave the players a lot of agency, a lot of choices to make where how hard do I wanna go for it? And if I don't wanna go, I basically can just throw out a five

and there's no way that I will end up going to the journey if I don't want it. Right, yeah, yeah. And then it created like an interesting moment where Say and Mary, where that sort of like awkward uncomfortableness where someone says this is a practice round We're saying Mary, that sort of like awkward uncomfortableness where, you know, they said, someone says this is a practice round

and Stay wins the practice round and claims victory anyway. And is mad at the guys for not supporting her. That was it. You guys back me up here. Yeah, which is funny and a little bit like, that's too much, let's take a breath. That's a little too fast. Yeah, but it was a great character moment for sure

in the season and I really loved how they did that. So we got to learn a lot about the players in doing that. But Mary, this was her chance. This was her chance to really change her trajectory. And then ultimately she is the one who doesn't come through on it. It looked very close too. It looked like she got it right at the end of the timer the timer, which was it, which was a bummer.

Because, of course, you know, even if like you're not rooting for Mary, you're like kind of rooting for the person in trouble to like get it. Yeah. Do you think that maybe Mary got some protection in that? Do you think that they thought like, OK, well, maybe let's not vote for her. That's interesting. Although I feel like that Kevin was the person driving. Let's not vote for her. And maybe that he did know she had lost her vote. Right. You're right that the person who goes on the journey, you're always a little bit wary

that maybe there's some magic power that they're gonna have. Yeah, I mean, there's probably something to that. You're just like, on the margin, if I have to choose between two people, why not go for the one who doesn't have maybe a magic power? With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan.

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I want to talk about the Lagui tribe, where we got a ton of strategic intrigue over there after we had a couple of segments from them. Now, I don't know if this tribe is ever going to go to a tribal council as this particular group, so we may not ultimately ever get the answer to this question, but I thought it was so interesting.

We saw all the alliances in the first episode of the season where Star was the person who was left out. And of course, as a few of the different players weighed in and made the same observation, of course, the one player who's on the outs is the person who's going to find the Beware advantage. All right. Well, I mean, that's the person who's motivated to look.

Yeah. And so Star ends up being the person who gets this little paper coffee filter with the holes cut out of it. And so she is enlisting a few different people to work on this with her. And I think that this is something that's very interesting. We haven't really seen this come up in the new era

where there's a person who has the Beware advantage, who needs our help. And we saw a few different players in Thomas and Shaheen try to weigh out like, do we want to help Star or would we prefer Star to have no vote and not have an idol? Yeah, which is so interesting. And then Shaheen lays it out,

there's like three options, like really help Star, kind of give like tepid help or then actively sabotage her. And of course, Thomas comes in with this fourth option of like lose the clue. What's your take on the lose the clue move, Rob? I think that it is easy for Thomas to say, and I can understand why Thomas would want that, but I think that that is a tough moment for Shane to end up going like, Hey,

star, by the way, I lost. I think we actually did see that with Daniel strong strategy, but it was not intentional. He was not doing that on purpose. Another, Hey, speaking of enough, you have Yeli's on survivor. Yeah. And somebody that you did better than. That's right, that's right. Yeah, so a win-win. Two great categories. Right, so I thought that was very interesting

and I think that Shane is playing this correctly in terms of slow playing it, but not giving Star enough information to unlock the idol. Yeah, I think that's right, because you don't wanna be actively sabotaging. I think obviously you don't want to be throwing out the clue and just building animosity, especially given how strong this tribe is. You know, there's every reason to think that they are going to go into a swap or emerge intact. And so like not having someone who feels alienated, it's really hard,

but it's also really important. I think that that could be Loggy's strength is that Star is building this overlapping alliance with Eva where basically the whole tribe is in an alliance with Star and with Eva, just the two of them are not with each other. But the fact that there is that cohesiveness could be what separates them from a lot of other really winning tribes where there's always one or two people out

who are trying desperately to screw over their own tribe more than they're trying to win the game. Well, this tribe is so interesting because we had in the first episode, we had, you know, that beautiful moment with Joe and Eva. And then we also saw that Thomas and Bianca are also a duo and they're also okay. Hey, we do the puzzles. And so they are also a pair. But Shane was the one person that he had the California girls, but he didn't really have a pair.

And so here's Star who's left out and I kind of feel like that almost like by proxy, I feel like that maybe Cheyenne is looking at Star as hey, this is my pocket alliance person and maybe I do want her to ultimately have the idol. I noticed a moment where after Star sat out of the challenge, after they were, okay, Loggy came in second place in the challenge, that there was a moment where, I think that Star, like Star has her arm around Shaheen,

and he like kisses her hand. Like this was like a very like sweet moment between the two of them. Like I think that those two might be closer than we realize or are becoming closer due to the idle clue. Right, that really could be the case. I also wanna call out how Joe,

I thought that was really smart the way Joe handled it, where star comes from Joe first. Joe's going through it. Yeah, but also like the idea of like, let me bring somebody else in. So I have some kind of external proof that I'm not like creating this side scheme. I think that's very smart, you know, because there always is that fear.

Oh, look at those two on the beach, they're scheming. So bringing in someone from your group into that to kind of like give you verifiability, I thought was a really good decision. Now, I think that Shane is in a tough spot here because Thomas has said, hey, lose the idol clue. Do not let her get the idol. Now, if Shayne solves the puzzle for her,

I think that Thomas might be pissed. Like this could be the, maybe a real rift in the California girls. Well, something's happening next week though, where it looks like there's gonna be some shenanigans according to the preview. And according to the preview Thomas's eye really like, looks like he really got hit badly there.

Well, he got hit in the face with a pole. Yeah. Yeah, not the best. No laughing from the camera crew. That happened, okay? It looked like he got hit in the eye. I mean, the camera crew. That really happened. Okay? It looked like he got hit in the eye. I mean, at first I thought it was his head, but like, his eye is completely swollen and red.

Yeah. He's like, am I bleeding? Like, no. Okay, keep going. Jeff's like, rub some dirt on it. That's how you do it. Yeah. Yes.

As you know, just a little aside, I don't love it when they're in the preview, they're like, look how many injuries people have in the blindfold challenge. Look at all these people injuring themselves. We don't love the blindfold preview. They're like, look how many injuries people have in the blindfold challenge. Look at all these people injuring themselves. We don't love the blindfold challenge. There really has to be too many. It's not just that the blindfold challenge leads to injuries. It's also like, they're like, look at how crazy these injuries are. Like they're making that the feature of the blindfold challenge.

I do not like that. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, we could get on our soapbox about that, but somebody must like it. There's yeah. But like, are we not? Do we get to vote, Stephen, and Survivor 50?

Can we vote? Should there be blindfold challenges? No blindfolds, yeah. Yeah. Get it out of there, okay? Or at least not like blindfolds with heavy objects. Like that seems like a, like, have blindfolds, but like, and have heavy objects, but not together. Yeah, okay. But the Purple Tribe, I think bears watching.

I just like really feel like they're not going to tribal council. Like, I just feel like that this is going to be one of these questions that like I'm doing a medium dive at the end of the season. It's like, OK, but Joe, tell me if you guys went to tribal council, who was going to get voted out? They seemed annoyed that they came in second. Like they were like scowling over having gotten the second place, which like understandably, like they were ahead.

They were doing great. And then like Mitch just, you know, was on fire. Yeah, what happened to them? Did Evo like cool off? Like she got four in a row. It seemed like, oh, Eve is gonna ace this. And then Mitch came in. Yeah, I mean, but that was crazy

how quickly Mitch did. Yeah, I mean, like- I guarantee you, okay, that take this to the bank. Dalton Ross is gonna write about how the underhand toss on the basketball is the way to go. That's one of his big survivor rules. Really? Yes.

Huh, I didn't know that. He's like, mark my words. He loves that. Okay. That's mark my words. He loves that. Okay. That's the way to go. All right. Stephen, you want to talk about the Orange Tribe? Yeah.

SEVA. We have a lot of love from the SEVA Tribe. Very loving tribe. A lot of fun. A lot of like disgusting things. Yeah. Like belly buttons and warts and gross. Stephen, do you have any humble traits?

Oh my gosh, every trait of mine is a humble trait. Yeah, I don't have any non-humble traits. Yeah, I am like Uriah Heap, I'm so humble. Anyone? Okay, do you think is charity getting the D winners gross foot at it? Well, that's what I thought at first. And you look like, listen, for everybody here,

like, not a foot guy. Like, I'm like, she was talking about how ugly her foot is. Like, I don't know, I'm not seeing what's supposed to be. She like really made a lot of that. This foot is so bad. It's like, it's fine. Oh my God, you have no idea. Gross feet, oh, forget it.

Like, I don't think I'm gross. I had some gross feet on. I didn't think that this was that jacked up of a foot. It was fine. It was like, oh my God, you have no idea, gross feet. Oh, forget it, like I don't think I'm gross. I had some gross feet on. I didn't think that this was that jacked up of a foot. It was fine, it was like, yeah, it was a foot. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Seven out of 10, are we rating feet on this show or no? We don't do that.

I don't know, is that, I feel like I might be on the wrong. Six out of 10, I don't know, is that wrong? Am I wrong for this? Six a hot, like is 10 beautiful or is 10 gross? I think 10's the best. So six was, and that's her humble trait, is a six out of 10. I thought it was fine.

My best traits are a six out of 10. Yeah, all right. But yeah, we found out that David had four nipples. I didn't even know that could happen. I've seen people with the extra nipple. I mean, not just the man with the golden gun. Three, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

The one I played Survivor with had a third nipple. Who? I feel like maybe I shouldn't know. Was it like a hippo thing? Why? Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Never heard of somebody with four.

Yeah. What's the record, do we know? But he had them removed. Can you really say you have four if you had them removed? I think at one time I was born with four nipples. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Then we found out that Chrissy, had them removed? I think at one time I was born with four nipples. Yeah, okay. Then we found out that Chrissy, that's a very deep belly button.

She's a cute tip. Yeah, we learned so much about this tribe. I feel like I know them so well. Yeah, it actually was a very lovely, human, fun interpersonal moment. Yeah, all right. But as far as back to the strategy, okay, you know, from four nipples

to the four person alliance, we see that the two people on the outs, Charity and Mitch, seem like that they are a duo. I don't think this was a better week for Charity, that she did not get much in the first episode. What do you think is going on here? Do you think that Charity is looking like that she's gonna be the person voted out from this group? It's

funny that I mean David's confessional about like Mitch and Charity are playing hard so we the easygoing people are gonna blindside and destroy that. Like like who's playing hard here? The people who are like you know just like Mitch who's coming back like I've got an advantage to share with everybody or David who's like oh and this person's going here and we're gonna blindside this person. It's funny just like, no matter who it is, it's always the rationale.

This person's playing too hard, we gotta get rid of them. Although I guess like in six to six credit, like not last week, it was like Stephanie, you're not playing hard enough. Yeah. We saw Kyle is the person who ends up finding the beware advantage and he ends up enlisting the help of Camilla to decode it. Steven, what did you think about that it was the same letters?

Like I was like, my mind was blown as she's like working on the de-scrambling the letters and she's like, and she gets to listen. And she's like, no, it's not listen. I was like, try it again, Camilla. Yeah. Apparently I think someone told me, I think it might've been Brian Corden. It feels like it probably was Brian. Sounds like this is his lane. Yeah. Um, but like these six letters are like a famously famous for like all of the

different combinations that they can have. Yeah. And so, yeah, ultimately the word ends up being enlist. What'd you think about Camilla getting a twig and then writing on her leg? The- Smart. Yeah, well, I felt like it was smart,

except for then what- Is it the dirt? Like Mitch and Charity are gonna be like, hey, what's with all these letters on your leg? I feel like you need to brush off your leg. I don't think it's like she wasn't tattooing herself. I think it's like a scratch, no? Oh, I thought it was just in the dirt on her leg. Oh, I don't know. But we'll find out, but I think it's like a scratch, no? Oh, I thought it was just in like the dirt on her leg.

Oh, I don't know. But we'll find out, but I think that like, it seems like that she was like making like a scratch. I mean, scratch, you're not gonna like, no, all these scratches on your leg are making letters? That feels like it's conspiracy theory, you know? I don't know, like the letters are public. Like they're out there.

Are you trying to figure out the word scramble on your leg? Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately, okay, Kyle and Camilla, do you feel like that as somebody who was in one of the great two person alliances of all time, do you think that they have the juice? I really like this duo.

I really like this duo. I think this might be, I mean, I love, okay, even Joe is great, but like in terms of like, they're like the strategic longevity of who I think has got the juice, it's probably okay, even Joe is great. But like in terms of like, they're like the strategic longevity who I think has got the juice, it's probably closer to Kyle and Camilla. Steven, Jeff said this is a season of partnerships. He had said, not all the partnerships are going to last.

I know rankings are arbitrary and reductive. So I wouldn't ask you to rank them, but do you wanna just give us a like thumbs up, thumbs down on the duos that we have so far? All right, Justin and Kevin, I'm gonna give them a thumbs down. Thumbs down, yep. Well, I wonder if it ultimately Kevin and Mary was the duo.

Yeah, that's- Okay, Cedric and Say. Cedric and Say is great, they're doing well, good for them. Like they've got, you know, they basically control their tribe now, like the two of them. Eva and Joe. All the other duos are doing great. I mean, Eva and Thomas, or Eve and Joe.

Sorry, I was thinking Bianca and Thomas. Eva and Joe, yeah, amazing. I love Eva and Joe. What a great relationship, so beautiful. Okay, Bianca and Thomas. Also great, they're all great. It's hard to say now, it's episode two, you know, except for the one that blew up, it's like,

that's, they're all good. Charity and Mitch. Okay, I don't have a lot of hope for charity and Mitch. It's very sweet. I mean, I love Mitch. How do you not love Mitch? Well, Mitch had such a great episode. He has a really great moment with Jeff, uh, which was, I thought a nice thing to have in the show where, you know, it wasn't just that, you know,

you have the representation of Mitch who has a speech impediment, but that Jeff asked, I thought a really good question of, and T-Bird and I were talking about this the other day after she saw the preview for this of like, hey Mitch, would you prefer that somebody tries to finish your sentence or would you prefer to be able to like have the time to finish your thought? And he said that, yeah, I'd prefer to finish the thought.

Yeah, Jeff has so much empathy. This is why I think he should run for governor of Kansas. I really think like this could be his call. He's so much empathy. This is why I think he should run for governor of Kansas. I really think like this is all he's so much empathy, but he also has a lot of authority. You know, he's like, he's obviously very handsome. You know, he has money so he could support the run. I feel like he would be a great governor of Kansas. He's just got a lot of human concern. He's a good listener. But he also is

like willing to make decisions. He can lead an enormous organization. And this way too, maybe we'll see like two tribes to starting tribes. He's also willing willing to make decisions. He can lead an enormous organization. And this week too, maybe we'll see like two tribes, two starting tribes. He's also willing to evolve his positions on things. Yeah, that's right. He's leaving the rules of Survivor 50 in the hands of the fans. Maybe, do you think that this is like the beginning

of maybe a political career for Jeff? It's the top clause for his political career. Exactly. Look, we could do worse. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying he should be the governor of New York, you know, like, but like Kansas, like we need a new governor in Kansas.

So yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm not as tapped in as you are on the political scene. Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about. For anyone who actually knows about the, you know, the electoral politics of Kansas,

like I truly don't know anything about. Yeah. I'm wondering about it. Let us know. Yes, so really lovely moment from Jeff with Mitch. And yes, amazing night for Mitch, both with that very, I was tearing up at that, I've been working really hard on a lot of projects recently and I think I'm worn out,

because every Survivor episode I'm weeping. No, but you're not alone. It's not like that all of a sudden people are like, Steven, what is it? It's not like a commercial that you're crying. I was like, what's going on? No, but you're not alone. It's not like that all of a sudden, like people are like, what is it, Stephen? What is it? Like, it's not like a commercial that you're like crying. Like, I've been hearing from a lot of people that Survivor is just like hitting like a very emotional place right now.

Yeah. And you know, the other thing about it too is I feel like they've like dialed it back and that helps it feel more authentic. You know, in the early forties, and we certainly complained about this at the time, everyone had an emotional moment in like through 43, you know, I think it kind of sort of lessened around 44, but like, it was just so much like emotion and look and emotion.

It's just like, you know, trauma dumping. Yeah. Well that's, I liked that. That's all. That's good. It really felt like they were trying so hard to pull on your heartstrings rather than kind of like letting these moments breathe and occur organically.

And then I thought that was really, they still, they score them beautifully. So it's like when the soon is like, but now not every moment feels like it's like, like aggressively score. What'd you think of tribal council? I thought we had the spicy Jeff pop up, especially on Justin where Justin was talking about how, you know, like, boy, Jeff,

you know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have this issue if you're winning. And he was like, well, you're not you're here. I know. Yeah, exactly. Not letting him. Yeah, very, very spicy. And Jeff talked about how, you know, theedric compared this to therapy. But Jeff's like, I guess I must not be a good therapist for you guys. That's right. Yeah. And just to go back to the Say and Mary relationship,

I thought it was so interesting where Mary wanted Say to announce that, hey, you're playing the game dishonestly. Just say it, just say that. Say like, no, I'm playing this game very honestly. And that meant a lot to Mary. Thank Mary felt like it was more honest to say you were being dishonest. Yeah, it's interesting.

Now, is there a path to healing for these two? Because say, still votes out Kevin at this tribal council, Mary comes back. Do you think that there's any chance that we could see this end up being a relationship that's salvaged? I don't think this relationship, I don't think this is one of the duos we'll be talking about. So either, but we'll see. We'll see what happens now. Back at that camp, a new idol will be hidden. Now, I believe that is, that we have that precedent in the new era, right?

Because in Survivor 44, we saw where Brandon played his idol when Matty was trying to blindside him. I believe he plays his idol on himself. And then Matthew ends up finding the idol at camp after Brandon hit it. So I think we do have precedent that a pre-merge idol in the new era ends up getting a new idol,

a non-beware advantage idol ends up getting hidden. So specific. Well, that's what we're looking at. So I think that their hope for Mary is that the idol gets re-hidden and maybe Mary is the person who finds the idol. Yeah it's interesting but like if you're a producer don't you want Say to have another idol? Like if you're like who is giving us the most? Obviously Say is quite literally giving you the most. Giving you the most okay. All right well, that leads us to our discussion.

Of course, every week Stephen Fishback gives out the most coveted award in all of Survivor Analysis. That is the Fishy Award, established 2009. Here we are, Stephen Fishback, in year 16 of the Fishy. Wow. Who do you think deserves this week's fishy award? All right, let's talk through the options, okay? As we do.

So let's start with the Seva Tribe. But I would love if we could have like a fishy award intro song for any of our intrepid listeners out there, all the creative minds. Shouldn't we get a fishy song? I would love that. Oh my gosh. That's all I want is like a theme song.

Yeah. The love note also still my favorite. Yes. Any notes for the writers of anything you want in there? Should like any like compliments for you? Oh yeah. Obviously compliments for me. Mm-hmm.

I mean, honestly that's just what it is. You know, more about me than about the, you know, More about the greatness of Stephen and the legacy of the fishy. Okay, all right. So Steven, what are you thinking for this week? Okay, let's talk through it tribe by tribe. So Steve tribe, I think you're not gonna really see

anybody on this tribe winning the award, right? Like who would it be? I mean, Camilla's also. I think in a world I could see, hey Mitch, you got the five baskets. I had a great moment. Yeah, but this is not a basketball award. He also got an advantage. Oh, by the way, going got the five baskets. I had a great moment. Yeah, but this is not a basketball award. He also got an advantage.

Oh, by the way, going back to the advantages. So I believe Thomas got a steal-a-vote. Mitch got a block-a-vote. Block-a-vote. That sucks. Block-a-vote is so much worse than steal-a-vote. I wanted to ask you, okay, can you rank them? Are they close?

Is it like four quarters in the dollar? But so steal-a-vote is much better. The steal-a-vote is much better. That said, having had my game, you know, sort of ruined the Steal a Vote. Almost impossible to screw up Steal a Vote, right? Yeah. I think there's something,

we've talked about this in the past, where like the more powerful your power, the worse it is for you, because you get like so kind of locked into various scenarios of how you're gonna play it perfectly. And so having kind of a limited power is almost, in many ways, a lot better, both because if you use it incorrectly,

you're like, oh, whatever, it was a stupid block of vote, who cares? And also because you're not thinking how I'm gonna change the game with the block of vote, whereas the steal of vote feels so nefarious. This is my villain. What do you think Mary's advantage would have been? I don't, yeah, that's, I mean,

probably it's like an extra vote or something like that. Steal of vote, block of vote I don't, yeah, that's, I mean, probably it's like an extra vote or something like that. Steel vote, black vote, extra vote, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, like Mitch had a great episode, but nothing necessarily strategic, you know, maybe his relationship with charity, but like that didn't feel necessarily.

P.S., can we just say about the little like containers? What a cool souvenir. I have a lot of little like tubes and things from Survivor, like nothing is as cool as that. Nothing is cool, I doubt they let them keep it. But oh, come on. They put it in the CBS store. You cowards. No, no, no, no, no. That appears to the person who opened those deserves those. They put a lot of work in. So Loggy. Those things are going to Ghost Island, baby. Exactly. Loggy. So, you know, we certainly had Star finding the advantage. Star building an alliance.

Star who was in a really bad spot at the start of the episode. And then kind of by the end of the episode looks to have, you know, maybe people are still plotting against her, but they're plotting against her more, you know, with more love. Yeah. You know, Star. She definitely advanced her position, but I don't know if there was enough there. Yeah. But I think I really think it has to be Say.

You know, you could certainly make a case for Say deserving the fishy last week as the person. I believe I did. What? I believe I did. Yeah, I made the case too. I just chose somebody else's case. Yes.

And again, like I actually really think that I was, I was deeply influenced by Say's Twitter presence, where she's so vocal. I was like, this is pre-emerge Twitter. And like, again, like to your point, this might be Tony Vlachos Twitter. You know, there's just, they overlap in a lot of ways. Like, and we've certainly seen a lot of other people. I mean, Carson had a very active Twitter presence,

did very well on his season. So it's not, it's no longer as absolute a rule that if you're super active on Twitter out of the gate, you're probably a pre-merger. So I need to like remove my own former perspective. So say like, certainly like was the person who drove the vote last week. And I think this week even played it better

where Say was able to pull the Boston Robb move in your words and flip the vote on Kevin, the person who was targeting her, say played her idol, which I thought even though it wasn't necessary, it was a good move because it was the conservative choice. She knew she was a potential target and she was cautious enough to save herself in case things didn't go her way. And she, you know, was able to cement her relationship with Cedric. I thought she had a great episode, a great two episodes, and she certainly deserves the fishy this week. Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

Yeah, I was gonna add on that it really was her social bond with Cedric that ends up saving her. Where had it not been for that, had it not been how close she was with Cedric, and Cedric thinks of her like a daughter to him, that he would not have given her the heads up and she would have been blindsided with her idol potentially.

So really her social bond ends up saving her and she ends up going after the person who was the bigger threat who was plotting against her in the tribe. And yes, I totally seed what you're saying about her being a spicy personality on Twitter and maybe that is not the best omen for her overall game but hey it's the new era baby you like go big or go

home and so I think that like playing a more aggressive style of game I think has certainly had its advantages here building and from a starting position and something we talked about last week was especially to play the game fast, especially in a tribe that looks headed for nothing but absolute disaster. Like that is certainly like you want to get out in front and control this thing where that she may well have to go into the merge with only two people in her tribe. So being in a good position to start really, I think was a great way for her to start the game. And I love having her on the season. She, with all due respect to

star to me, to me, Say is the star of the season. That was pretty good. To your point about her relationship with Cedric, Cedric specifically cited that Say would always call her like dad, I'm sorry, would always call him dad. Say specifically cited, Say specifically cited, Cedric specifically cited, Cedric specifically cited, Cedric specifically cited that Say would call him dad.

And you know, we didn't get a say confessional about that, but we certainly know that that is a way to build a bond with someone, is kind of granting them that sort of familial relationship with you. I remember before I went out to Cambodia, Ethan Zahn's advice to me was, I tried to fill in that familial role

for every single person who I was playing with. So if someone needed a brother, I was going to be their brother. If someone wanted a son figure, I was going to be their son. And so this is not just Cedric's affection for Say. This is Say building that relationship by using these very loaded words, dad. Yeah. And to Cedric and to Justin, I also give them credit because I feel like that the person who is playing the hardest and the fastest to align

with that person, I think is a good move also in the new era. We saw that was kind of what Genevieve was thinking with Rome in Survivor 47. And I think so I think that you want to be in the proximity of that person as opposed to being the person in the crosshairs of the person who's going the hardest in the pre-merge. That's interesting, because there was some concern

from Genevieve that she would get blowback from Rome because he was alienating people, but that never happened. And does it happen generally? I don't think it does anymore. Yeah, I don't think that we, for people to go ahead and then do such a bold move to like, okay I'm going to try to blindside the person who the friend of the person who has the idol Like I don't think there's a ton of danger that teeny and because Sean did not want to go along with Asia and Saul

To do that last season So I think it's a safe place to be and I think it's a good idea when you have somebody like that on your tribe All right, see anything else about tonight's episode, which I thought was super fun. Yeah great episode very fun. Yeah great job We're off to a flying start here in Survivor 48 the only thing missing from the conversation Maybe is you survivor is better when you have a tribe come and be a part of the greatest reality TV community in the world. Here at Rob has a podcast, I don't know if it's

robiswebsite.com slash patron to be a part of our many patron activities, the Survivor Q&A, and all of the content we have for you, including 15 years later, Survivor Heroes vs. Villains. Josh Wiggler and I have gone back in 15 years to the date. We just watched episode four, a huge move. Your friend JT, Steven, can you believe what he pulled? He flipped and voted out Saree.

That was big, that was big. Apparently he gave me credit for that. He was like, Steven, and I shouldn't probably be saying this publicly. He was like, you told me to watch out for Seree that she was a giant slayer. And so I needed to get her out. I didn't want Seree to be mad at me. He didn't want to go home and be, yeah.

I didn't know that. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like he was like, I think JT probably could have gotten it. Probably would have figured that out himself that Seree was the most dangerous player. But I think he was like, I didn't want you to be mad at me. I had to take Seree out before she could get me. Oh my god wow that was brave of you to admit that No, oh no what's gonna happen to me?

allegedly allegedly JT could have been making that up yeah Because I respect her so much because I was like Seree's the best player out there you got to get rid of her first Okay, you want to be the best player out there so get them all the way to the ones who are better than you Yeah, well you look, you gotta hide behind some threats too, Steven. Yeah, that was before the Meat Shield era. That strategy wasn't invented yet.

Okay, then, all right, The Traders is wrapping up on Thursday night. How will it all wrap up? Find out when we talk about The Traders season finale and the reunion show. We're gonna go live I think around 10 45 p.m. Eastern. Pooja and I will talk about everything. Traders, plus we'll be working on some postseason interviews for you as well. That's all at we know traders dot com for the podcast feed. Then the amazing race kicks off tonight. Once upon a time, Stephen and I might have been on the amazing race.

It's not too late. As long as you're willing to take all the brain damage. As long as you're willing to take the brain injury challenges. Yeah, that was Stephen's one condition. That was Stephen's one condition that if we went on the Amazing Race, anything that could potentially cause any sort of, you know, anything dangerous that might involve some sort of potential brain injury I had to take that on instead of Stephen. It was well It was specifically the the bungee jump bungee jump not a fan of the bungee jump. I would not be a fan of it either Hopefully we would be eliminated before we have to get to that point

Okay, can you time out of a book of like a brain damage challenge? I think so Maybe just like a alias Boston raw, but I think if you sit out for four hours I think that you can avoid doing the challenge but check out the brand new season of the amazing race and then Mike Bloom and Jessica lease will be back with the recap coming up on Thursday on our HAP and then Australian Survivor is a Off to a great start and check out Shannon Gus talked with the great Ferris about everything going on in week three of Australian Survivor.

We make it so easy for the patrons to watch what's going on over on Australian Survivor Brains versus Braun too in our We Know Global Survivor feed. And then over on our scripted TV podcast, I'm talking about the White Lotus with Josh Wigler, we know scriptedtv.com where you can hear Severance and all of the other great scripted TV recaps we have for you. All right, Stephen, what else is coming up for you? Yeah, I mean, I just should say,

last week I did a very tepid pitch to sign up for my newsletter at StephenFishback.com. This week I'm gonna take it up slightly one degree. Please sign up for my newsletter at StephenFishback.com. I promise I will not be spamming you at all until my book comes out in a year. I will be doing, when my book does come out in February of 2026, I will be doing viewing parties,

probably around the country. And so if you would like to get notice- Wow. Yeah, oh yeah. If you would like to get notices of when those are, when they're coming to you, sign up now. I'll certainly be messaging that list first for any access.

And, you know, February, 2026, it's a big season that season. So it's gonna be, hopefully those will be really fun viewing parties. All right, wow. This is news to me. I didn't even know you were planning viewing parties. News to me.

Well, I haven't planned anything yet. So I really should get on that. But it's gonna be some time. Well, you know't planned anything yet, so I really should get on that. But, um, can I come? Well, you know, yeah, I would love it, please. You know, you know, we could we could do a podcast or something. Oh, that'd be incredible. Alive, Steven, go on tour with you. Yeah. All right.

So I would do it because anything that will sell books and also, you know, we are so back, everybody. Stephen Fishback dot com. How many newsletters sign ups do you need for that? books and also you know we are so back everybody StephenFishback.com how many newsletters signups do you need for that um 40,000 40,000 StephenFishback.com 40 million 40 million so if we could just do like 10x the survivor audience yeah that'd be incredible okay yeah all right so thank you all so much for joining us oh Oh boy. Thank you to the to the live studio audience as well. It's been so fun having you all here.

And then we love to read what you have to say in the comments. Thursday morning. I can't. What did everybody say about the Know It Alls? I read it religiously. I also love to read the comments. Great comments. Yeah. Great comment section. Yeah. Everybody for the most part. Pretty respectful. And so we love to hear very positive. Interesting. comments. Yeah. The great comment section. Yeah, everybody for the most part. Pretty respectful.

And so we love to hear what you have to say. Very positive, interesting. So check that out and make sure you're- You used to have a comment section on your website. People, the world got too crazy. The world got too crazy. And so we had to take it back. We were very hostile.

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