RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Ep 4

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Today, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 48 episode 4.

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They game a million times. Well, actually, they didn't really win the game at all. No. Yeah, that's right. The Survivor Know-It-Alls are back after a wacky tribe slop this week on Survivor. Steven, how are you? I'm not good, Rob. This was a very hard exit for me. Yes. I was texting you during the episode.

I can't believe it. I can't believe Vula is going back to Tribal. These are my favorites. To see the California girls and Kyle and Camilla, I couldn't believe that I had to lose one of them. I was really like, it took me a long time to come to terms with. And then when Thomas goes out, and Thomas is like, I'm okay with this. I've gotten

so much from this nine days. Maybe you are Thomas. Right? I didn't get anything from the nine days. I just lose you on my screen. Honestly, this is one of the hardest exits for me of I think any survivor ever. I just like, I love this alliance. I love this trio. I love this tribe. I love like Thomas was amazing. He was such a fun character. Um, you know, smart in every way, like a great, like a fun player, um, great sound bites. I mean, what? No, no, I just can't accept it. Is it, do you think, is there a chance we see Thomas on survivor 50? I guess there's always a chance. Like a second chance season though, like Thomas.

Yeah. I thought, I mean. Yeah, maybe, you know, at some point, like look, Survivor 50 is happening and maybe at some point though, it doesn't mean that there can't be like some kind of like new era second chances that they do also. That's not Survivor 50. I just think they should bring him back now, you know,

like send them back from the jury house, switch them out for one of the others, you know, someone we don't like as much. I don't know. I want to name a name because I'll get in trouble. But, yeah. But no, you're right. This group was five characters

that we've really gotten to know very well. And you know, it speaks to like the good job that they've done so far of making us care about all these people. Like, well, I don't know which one of these people we're actually gonna lose. Yeah, I couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand the thought of it.

And they're all big characters. And then like it truly, it felt like a kind of death. It's like, no, I know this is gonna happen. I wanna change it. And yet I, you know, I can't, I don't have the power to change it because it's inevitable. They are going to tribal council. Yeah, okay.

Well, can't wait to break it all down here with you as we kick off another exciting week of Survivor here on RHAP. Tomorrow, I will get the chance to speak with Thomas and find out a bunch of questions from him about everything that went down at this tribal council and how he got into this predicament and so much more. So be there for that. And then on Thursday afternoon, I

am going to be talking with Kelly Nalbandian and I'll get a chance to talk with her and take your questions. And then of course we have an old school interview as well. Todd Herzog is going to be back on the podcast. Legend. Plus somebody who had a rough vote out last season. Annika from Survivor 47 is going to join Chappelle and I on Club Kondo this week. So a jam packed week of RHAP coming your way. If you're watching us here on YouTube, get the podcast when you go to getrhap.com.

If you're listening to the podcast and you want to watch us, go to watchrhap.com. Hmm, that makes sense. Did you, when you saw Todd, did you feel like an innate kind of kinship with him? He was a sister Ninovian player? Yeah, that's a very good question. So that happened to be Todd's season in China,

happened to be during my one time in my life when I wasn't watching Survivor, but I heard about Todd. And people had said to me, hey, there's somebody who's kind of like you. And I met Todd for the very first time at the Survivor 10 year anniversary party as we were celebrating 25 years of Survivor. And Todd was incredible to meet and, you know, looking forward to catching up with him on Monday.

And you both have great hair, like a really spiky hair. He has better hair, I think. You both have great hair. He had cooler hair. But Stephen really spiky hair. He has better hair. I think he had cooler hair. You both have great hair. He had cooler hair. But Steven, I also caught up with another one of your friends, Abby Maria was my guest. We caught up about the season of Survivor

and so much more as well. You can check out that interview with Abby Maria in the podcast. Abby was wonderful. And I think it's evergreen. We talked about episode three, but she had so many stories about her life and everything. I thought that was such a good interview.

Oh, well, I look forward to listening to it. Yes, okay. All right, of course, plenty more in the We Know Survivor podcast feed. Let's get into this tribal council because this was such an interesting dilemma for all of the different players involved after this tribe swap.

And I thought it was such an interesting we manufacture so many prisoners dilemmas on Survivor, but for Kyle and Camilla, they legitimately had a real life prisoners dilemma of the two of them who were in this situation where if they work together, if they cooperate, there was a way that they could have gotten out of it, but either one of them could have sold the other one out and gone with the guys, presumably, oh, I guess maybe Kyle couldn't have,

because I think that's what he was trying to sell and they ultimately decided to vote him out, but that they stuck together and they sold this masterful lie and ultimately pulled it off. Yeah, it was really, really impressive. And I have to say the quality of the lying was like S-tier quality lying, right?

I mean, because at first, you know, Camilla sort of starts it with, oh, I was on the bottom. And, you know, as Shaheen noted, Kyle didn't say, yes, she was on the bottom. She was like, oh, he played it off so perfectly in that way, as though he were trying to, the fact that in order to portray their rivalry, their alleged rivalry, they pretended to be acting

as decent friends, like, oh, we've got this connection. We're both Guyanese, like, Guyanese? I think Guyanese. Like, like, guineas. I think guineas. Guineas. Yeah. Um, you know, and, but like, so they, they really sold it, you know, they didn't like if they didn't most people in that situation, go over the top, oh, we hate each other. Like, oh, she's on the bottom. I hate her. She's you know, and what made it so it sold it so well, was that they

didn't oversell it, they undersold it and that gave just enough of a hook. And it's like that, you know, that like, when, you know, Amanda Kimmel like tries to pitch, you know, use your idol, you know, use your idol poverty. You know, she like oversells it. And as a result, poverty is clued in. You gotta be really subtle. Just give like enough of a taste

that the person that kind of goes crazy with it. Yeah, and for this tribe to come together, when we saw on the mat that, okay, the three California girls are all still together, plus now add Kyle and then Camilla. We thought there was no way. I was like, wow, this is a tribe that has a lot of, first off, they have a lot of advantages in this tribe.

Too bad, this tribe is never going to tribal council. And they were on the screen and they were like, oh, Kyle and Camilla are lying to them. Okay, great. Okay, get back to me if this tribe ever goes to tribal council because they are so overpowered. And lo and behold, we get them going to the very first tribal council that they're eligible for.

Now, do you think that being on Vula Beach, and I'm totally sincere in this, like not that it was jinxed, like contributed it to it, because like you don't get a good night's sleep, you know, you're sleeping on that terrible shelter, you don't have any, you know, no food, no fire, you get a horrible night's sleep and maybe your brain isn't functioning as well

for the puzzle. I mean, I really think that could be a part of it. Do you think there's anything to that? So I personally don't. I think that it was what didn't have anything to do with it. But I mean, do you have some survivor life experience that, you know, just knowing that when you have a terrible night's sleep, you're not as sharp, you know, for the parts of survivor that need mental acuity. I mean, certainly for the strategic parts. But I, you know, also for the challenges, it's just like acuity. I mean, certainly for the strategic parts, but also for the challenges. It's just like, it becomes harder, you become worse.

I don't think it's like, I don't think it had zero effect on them. Yeah, I don't know necessarily like how many days had they been in, like I think was this day nine? I'm not sure exactly. I have to go back and look and see if, is this the very next day after the tribe saw, cause I kind of feel like that they, they built a good camp once.

I feel like they could do it again. Yeah, but you don't come out. I mean, nine days in, you know, with, you know, and a new air survivor and any air survivor, you just don't have the energy. You don't have like the will. And you also know that you're like, you're not going to be there that long, presumably.

That's fair. So like, what's the point of building up this whole camp? Rob, I got a bad night's sleep last night on my bed. And I'm like a zombie today. Can you imagine like a sleep sleep on a shelter in the damp and you're like this terrible bamboo? I would not be able to do that puzzle now given my six and a half hours.

I can't even imagine. Sometimes my wife just takes all of the covers and then I'm freezing and it's like the whole day is shot. So I guess I have to give some grace to them I'll ask Thomas to find out whether or not the poor conditions led to ultimately them not being able to Win at this puzzle. Do you feel like in terms of how the California girls played this? You know knowing everything that you know in hindsight is 2020. Do you feel like? What should they have

done in terms of playing this differently? Well, with hindsight, right, I'm sure Thomas has thought to himself many, many, many, many, many times, why did I not use my steal a vote? Then we could split the votes on the two of them. And if one of them magically did have an idol, we would have still been fine. So right, like looking at the lay of the land now that we know exactly what played out, that was the correct move. He does a steal a vote on either one, probably Kyle,

because Kyle was the target. And now Kyle can't play his shot in the dark. Does a steal a vote on Kyle. Then they've got four votes for the three California girls and they split the votes on Kyle and Camilla. Between the two of them, they only have one vote. So like no matter what, one of them is going home unless they give a vote.

Between the two of them, they still would have had two votes. Well, would have had two votes, right. And that's the thing. But on a re-vote, yeah. I wonder if they knew Camilla had gone on a journey. Do you think that they thought that she had any advantage of her own? Or do you think that maybe she was telling them

that she lost her vote? Right, I mean, that's a good question. Like, that's a good question. That's a really good question. Do you wanna put the question, the other question is like, do you want to put the votes on the person who went on the journey or not, right? Cause you're always worried that like, is the superpower?

And I guess they have a sense that the superpowers are probably vote related. Hard to say like who had a sense of what Kyle, I'm sorry, Thomas certainly knew that. But yeah, and I'm sure Thomas has relived that moment many, many times. Listen, I have been there. I know how terrible it is to play a steal a vote badly.

And that would be drought. The steal a vote's cursed too. Yeah, reverse the curse, Thomas. I do wanna tie this back to Justin last week. And Justin went on the journey and he lost his vote. And then he didn't tell Cedric about it and then that got brought up as you know a reason to penalize Justin. Cedric, how could you keep Justin? He didn't even tell you about his advantage or his loss of a vote. I do wonder if

you know we're seeing that you know Thomas had he told Shaheen and Joe that he had this extra, and it kind of came up, he had the opportunity to like, hey, hey, she got me. Yeah, I do have a thing, but we can use it now against them in, you know, in case one of them has something. Do you feel like that the mistake was not sharing that information with his allies to kind of strategize with it in the same way that we saw the Davids come together

and David versus Goliath, oh, I have this advantage. I have this advantage. And the way that Kyle and Camilla did it, right? Like we've got this idol. It looks like the votes are going on you. You play the idol, we'll play the extra vote too. So we have, oh, did they play the extra vote though? It looked like they, I think they did. I believe they did. Cause he had it out. We saw it out, but I don't know. I don't think they read the

extra vote because the only two votes were right. And I actually think, and again, not to bring it back to me, but I'm trying to use like my own experience to like empathize and add, you know, context to what I think I would, I imagine happened for Thomas. I'm curious if this did happen. Like what's interesting about the steal vote is that it's so powerful that you kind of get lost thinking ahead too much. It's like a two vote swing on an extra vote which is a one vote swing,

which actually can be decisive in more tribal councils than that one vote swing can. So you start to play out the perfect time, when am I gonna use this? Oh, it's gonna be at the merge and I'm gonna like totally flip everything upside down. And so, you know, he probably didn't want to risk, you know, this seemed like a relatively straightforward, you know,

three to two, you know, you don't know. I mean, yeah, obviously, obviously that's what he should have done, you know? But I'm sure he got lost in the fantasy of, wow, like this, I've got to play this at the perfect time. And clearly what he should have done, you know? But I'm sure he got lost in the fantasy of, wow, I've got to play this at the perfect time. And clearly what he should have done was take that moment to fess up. He wasn't wrong, right? In his read where we have a Shaheen saying like,

oh my gosh, you know, if Thomas has lied to us, that's a huge violation of trust. Like, I don't know how I'll reckon with that. So obviously, you know, it would have caused issues within his alliance. So that was a correct read. I mean, yeah, we know that he did the wrong thing, but if Kyle hadn't had an idol, you know, what would have happened? So sure.

So I think that and I'm always trying to look at like, hey, what's the rule in this situation? What's the thing that people should take away from how this all played out tonight? I think that, you know, Kyle, he got up, he played his idol. He said, hey, I have to play my idol. I remember survivor 46. We saw like from last week's tribal council, it was a great example. Anything can happen at these tribal councils. Thomas's advantage had already been compromised. He had it set up that it was the perfect secret. Nobody knew about it. And Camilla kind of spilled the beans, as you've talked about many times in Second Chances,

that you think that the right move is to, if you have this known advantage, burn it as soon as you can. So for Thomas, I'm sure that he had all these grand ideas that he was going to play it at the final five and have an all-time move. But I think that it's all the more reason, especially in this new era, it's a three to two vote.

And it's so easy for me to sound smart after the fact. But I think that when we look at all of the facts that Camilla had been on a journey, anything could happen. Either of them could have had an idol from their previous camp that you don't know about. So I do think that probably he should have played that steal a vote at that tribal council. Yeah, or even the shot in the dark. I mean, the existence of the shot in the dark, right? Not that Thomas should have played it,

but just knowing that it's out there. I mean, they presumably have heard, or maybe they haven't heard actually, because no one from Old Vula is there. But so, I mean, just the very fact of the shot in the dark, that maybe it, cause not knowing from, from old voulos there, but I mean, you know, just the very fact of the shot in the dark, like, yeah, play it safe. You know, if you're, you're on the line, potentially,

you could play it safe. The skill of vote would prevent the shot in the dark, I believe. So like- Well, no, that's what I was saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would like be a way of stopping the shot in the dark from, from ricocheting back on you.

I mean, you said it exactly right. I think once the person, once the information is out in the public, you might as well use that thing, play it defensively, get it out of your pocket so there's less suspicion on you. And of course you are going to have to do some damage control with your alliance, but I think people mostly get it.

I think people like, okay, yeah, he had a secret thing and he used it for our sake and I understand, and especially like, I feel like Shain especially, is such like an emotionally astute guy. You know, I feel like he'll be like, oh yeah, that hurts me, but I, you know, I understand. He feels like very like a sensitive- Where's he gonna go?

He's not gonna vote out Thomas for, you know, wanting to have done that. And so I don't wanna make this as like a, hey Thomas, you idiot type of thing. I just try to be forward looking with this in terms of like, what are the lessons that we take away from this tribal council for people to think about moving forward in the future?

And I do think more and more it's that lesson from Survivor 46. Nothing is guaranteed. If you have advantages, if you have idols, play them. You can always find more. But once things go sideways and you end up out of the game, that's it. Yeah.

And it really is two contrasting strategies. Because it wasn't like Camilla and Kyle were saying, let's just use the idol. That should do it. They're like, here's what we got. Let's pour it all on. And of course, it makes more sense for them because they're in the position of, you know,

being the ostensible targets. So they obviously need to save themselves. So they need to go harder. And, you know, I'm sure that also, and ironically ends up hurting Thomas, right? That he was in the majority position. What do you think of all of the different advantages in the way they played out?

Like, is this fun, Survivor? Like, is this like a fun use of the different advantages or is, I mean, or not so fun? I mean, I is this like a fun use of the different advantages or is, I mean, or, or, or not so fun? I mean, I thought this was a super fun tribal council tonight. Now I don't know from the opinion of somebody who's not paying as much attention to what as we are in terms of like who had what, were they able to follow everything that was going on?

I mean, I think that if you were just not paying that close of attention, is the extra vote even part of your thought processes? Is it just like, oh, he played the idol and they should have put the votes on the other person? Yeah, I mean, I agree that, like, I thought it was really- Because Camilla and Kyle, they really, they played it so smart of that with the extra vote that it would have been a three-three tie,

even if, you know, they put the votes on Camilla. Yeah, so I mean, and then like like it's all, it would be, I mean, honestly then, I mean, and the extra vote carries through. I know the steal vote does, right? Does the extra vote carry through to the revote? I think the extra vote does carry through on the revote. Do you want to just talk that out on the fly,

which is always a little dangerous for us. Well, yeah, because then, I mean, assuming the extra vote does carry through on the revote, which I'm sure has been tested, and I'm sure people know. So three votes on Kyle, and then there are three votes on, uh, on Thomas. And then, and then they've got like, when it comes to a rock draw,

you know, they have all the leverage because there's only, you know, there's two of the California girls on the line and only Camilla on the line. So, I mean, it's a, you know, it's a, it's only, it's a, you think they would go to rocks Camilla and, uh, in, in that spot? Well, I'm saying the pressure would be on the California girls because like, they've got a much higher chance of drawing the purple rock.

Would- And they're the purple charms. Chaeen or Joe be more likely to flip? I think probably Chaeen, right? Like Joe is, feels like I'm going all the way, you know? He could be the Vetus here on Flip on the Rock. You're like, hey, like I'm not here to go to rocks at the fourth tribal council. Yeah. Although he's such like a, I don't know. He seems like such, I don't know.

He seems like a kind of pathetic human. Like I can't, I can't betray my friend. I can see going the other way. And then we'd see Camilla be like, Hey, Shane, did Thomas tell you about the advantage that he got? Yeah, exactly. Could be a replay of last week. Exactly, a re-replay. Now that would be a very exciting way for it to have unfolded, but ultimately it's, sorry, a loss for Thomas, who I thought in a lot of worlds could have been the winner of the season.

I was sure that that group was going deep together. And I know such a fun alliance. I think they did too. And the fun alliance name. Steven, do you think that there was going deep together. And I know such a fun alliance. And that fun alliance name. Steven, do you think that there was any complacency when the three guys ended up being swapped together? And like, can you believe this? Right, I mean, I do think that probably like inhibited, you know, Thomas being flexible or more, you know,

it's like, yeah, I mean, we've got this all, you know, obviously the three of us together are gonna be great. We're gonna be fine. You know, it's just like a question of like picking off which of the two of them are in trouble. Yeah. And it does kind of, you know, you're not thinking like, oh shoot, like what if some magical thing happens and then I'm on the line.

Not only that, they had the scenario where our whole alliance gets swapped together. So the three of us are together and also these two don't get along and are trying to throw each other under the bus. I do wonder if this is the scenario where you're saying to yourself, this is too good to be true, this whole scenario. I mean, I guess, but like they really sold it so well,

and I think that is what differentiates, you know, Kyle and Camilla here is that they really sold it well, where you have these very thoughtful guys, you have Shaheen like really kind of reading the situation and assessing it, like, are they really fighting, you know, and then kind of deciding, yes, like based on how they're acting, I think, I think it all adds up. So, you know, I think you have to give them, I think the credit goes to Kyle and Camilla for the deception rather than the blame falling on the California girls for falling prey to it. Sick of dreaming smaller? Sick of investing but not seeing your money grow?

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for 175 grams serving to help build strong muscles and no added sugar. Oikos Pro with 18 grams of protein for 175 grams serving to help build strong muscles and no added sugar. Oikos Pro, feed your strength. With tons of free reality shows, you are totally free to watch what you love on Pluto TV. And for me, that's Dance Moms, Bar Rescue, The Challenge, and Jersey Shore. All totally free on Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. I want to talk about when they first came to the new tribe where Kyle and Camilla got to first start to talk to Thomas and Shane and Joe.

And we had the scene where Camilla was talking about how the guys or that she doesn't really get along with Kyle and it was going so great. But then she brought up about Thomas's steal a vote advantage. And she brought up that she had been talking with star when they were both on the sit out bench, which we didn't get to see their conversation, but we had like a couple of shots of them talking and Camilla was running some of those details back and forth. And this is like some emergent gameplay from the new era of like people checking what's going on at the journey. So good job by Camilla and star trading notes. But we had Mitch's account of that, which did not

line up with what Thomas had told star. And Camilla brings up this information, and I will say on a night that Camilla did a ton of great things, I thought that she did not play this correctly. You thought it was too chaotic, like too much drama? How did it go? I think that she brings it up in a way to sort of like drive a wedge in between the guys

and that Cheyenne instantly goes to Thomas and says, hey, Camilla is saying you got something at the thing. Thomas like, she's lying, she's gotta go, she's a problem. And ultimately like she overcame that, the rest of what she did was so good. But just because, and I think that there's a temptation that you find out somebody is lying about something and it's like, oh, I gotta expose the lie, I gotta call it out. Sometimes it's fine, you could just sit on that.

And there's other ways that she could bring up that information that, you know, in a way that she just went on a journey and she could like, you know, bring up to one of the guys like, hey, it's so messed up this season that you don't get a chance to decide if you wanna opt in or opt out of losing your vote. That's not right that they make you do that. And if one of them says, oh, well, Thomas says that he, like, oh, that's not what I heard. Like, you can get that information out there

without her coming out and accusing Thomas of lying. To strangers. Right, well, I mean, you know, there's an easier defense though to that accusation, right? Which is, well, that journey was different. Yours happened this way, mine happened this way. I mean, I think even just bringing it up in camp like that makes it sort of like part of the public record,

you know, something that is like fact checkable. Whereas if she kind of just took one of the guys aside, you know, that might've been a little bit more subtle, a subtler way to do it. And of course it would still probably make its way back to Thomas, but it wouldn't feel like as much like she's, you know, creating all this chaos that then sort of refracts or reflects onto her. Although to your point, ultimately she wasn't their target anyway.

I mean, she was Thomas's target and it did create some animosity between the two of them. But I do, I didn't hate it as much because they're in this position of needing to scramble, because they know they're the targets. I don't think it's crazy to kind of push a little bit and see if anyone cracks. She doesn't know that the three guys are thick as thieves and they've got this really cute name for their alliance.

From Camilla's perspective, this might be a way of exacerbating existing tensions between these three bros. It just that what she was doing with the guys exposing Thomas's lie is a different strategy than the one that was going to be the effective strategy of her and Kyle are at odds where I'm at the bottom. I need help. Help me out. You guys are my, you know, then, but then don't also be throwing Thomas under the bus when you are trying to get recruited by these guys. Yeah, I mean, that's fair.

I just also think like she doesn't know, right? Like she, like why not try everything and see what sticks? Yeah, like maybe they like the fact that I'm on the, that I'm saying on the ads. Maybe they already don't like Thomas and they think this is just gonna create more tension between two people who don't like each other

and give like an opening. But the other way that in a roundabout way does benefit her is that I feel like that at that point, I think that Shaheen and Joe become tighter and that Thomas is a little bit more on the outs and we had heard him feeling like a little bit that way that Shaheen and Joe had already had a closer relationship. But the fact that now that they're sort of talking about

like, hey, is Thomas on the level with us on this? And then when they decide who are we gonna vote for, that Thomas says, hey, let's vote out Camilla. The other two guys are saying, no, let's keep Camilla. Let's vote out Kyle. And he got gets out voted. And I think he lost some stature in the group. And it also might have put some pressure on him

not to tell them, like really not to tell them about the extra vote or the steal vote. Whereas, you know, if he had just been thinking through it abstractly and this Camilla thing hadn't happened, he might've been able to go and say, hey, by the way, there's this thing I haven't told you about, it's this. And like, I'm so excited.

But the way it played out where Camilla outs him and then suddenly Cheyenne is saying to him, hey, do you have this? And then, you know, immediately his defensive response is, no, she's lying, absolutely not, that's a lie. It's much harder than, you know, a little bit later to be like, actually, you know, actually she was not lying and I was lying to you and I lied again

when you confronted me about it. Like that puts a lot more pressure on him. Whereas I can see the world where he just like later says like, hey, this has been a secret. You know, if Camilla didn't kind of create that situation where he had to defend it. I want to talk about going through Kyle's bag. We see Thomas and Shane,

they start looking through Kyle's bag, looking for to see if he has the idol, but they do it with Camilla right there. Very fun scene. Very fun, very fun for us to watch. The misery on Camilla's face. Very fun scene, very fun scene. Very fun for us to watch. The misery on Camilla's face as she's trying not to look miserable.

Yeah, now, Shayne is going through the bag, doesn't ultimately find it. We find out later that Kyle does have it and it's in the shoe. Was the shoe in the bag? Because Kyle seems surprised they didn't find it. So Kyle was surprised they didn't find it going through his bag. I think the shoe was in the bag. And then he was like, it's in my shoe. Yeah. Why would you put your shoe in your bag? I mean seemed surprised they didn't find it. So Kyle was surprised they didn't find it going through his bag.

And then he was like, it's in my shoe. Why would you put your shoe in your bag? I mean, I don't know. Now, hold on. Let's go back to in Tocantines. We have some idol searching in the bag. What was going on there? No shoes in our bags.

No shoes in the bag. No shoes in the bag. We looked through the bags, you know, but like you would never look through. I mean, you never put the shoes in the bag. Who went through whose bag? I don't remember. I mean, you never put the shoes on. Who went through who's bag? I don't remember. I think maybe, I don't remember.

Taj was involved? Taj was involved, yeah. Maybe there was something with Joe, but Joe didn't have anything. I think Taj, oh no, I think maybe Taj planted something. I don't remember. I don't remember. We convinced Joe that, you know, there was an idol

and Joe had a fake idol. Oh, this didn't make air, did it? That's why you're asking. Yeah, like, I don't know. I'll make it in there. I don't remember. Anyway, Joe had a fake idol that Taj made. Yeah.

So, Stephen, the thing is the idol is so tiny. Like, it's just like a bead on a string. You're not gonna feel it from just doing a pat down. Yeah, you really gotta get in there. I know, he didn't do, I'm sure he felt a little bit like it was a violation. So it's still uncomfortable to watch a little bit. Yeah, why is that?

In the new era, everybody's gaming so hard, why is this the one thing that people kinda feel icky about? It's your only possession out there. It's all you've got is your little bag with your dirty clothes and apparently your shoes, if you're a weirdo. So, you know, going through like someone's one thing.

Yeah. Would you ever do this? Oh yeah, I mean, you've got to now. You've got to. It's just like, it's so hard to find. Yeah. There's also, I think like the pressure, the time pressure, right?

You don't know when the person's gonna come back. You don't want to be like, you know, have all their stuff out, you know, their shoes willy-nilly. Yeah. So I really want to come to the bottom of this shoe thing because like, do people put their shoes in their bags? I just don't get it. I don't know, baby. I mean, I don't think you leave your shoe out with an idol in it. Under the shelter. I guess their shelter didn't have like an under. Just like leave them out. Come on. Yeah, why are these people wear their shoes?

I mean everyone knows that foot health in the jungle is like one of the best well listen take it from me What health in the jungle is one of the most important, you know things to stay on top of yeah It's very important. I don't have never been easier to hide on your person. Yeah, really cuz they're so small. Yeah, they're so small But we put them in your hat. Well, yeah, you know, like the Cody hat, you can weave them into a hat. You can weave them into a hat. So there's all sorts of places to hide the hidden immunity idol.

Okay, Steven, anything else on this group? Cause I think it's an interesting setup for this group. If they go to another tribal council, now that they have a clear two, two, I don't think we've really seen this. Yeah, that would be really interesting and fun, especially as nobody's got any, any of the other tribes that are in the group. So I think that's a good point. Cause I think that's a good point. Cause I think that's a good. I don't think we've really seen this.

Yeah, that would be really interesting and fun, especially as nobody's got any firepower anymore. They all are in need of some. There is a Vula Idol. We did see it before the tribe swap that there was the camera ended up lingering on the Vula Idol, which is on that beach, but nobody seemed to be hunting for it based off of what we saw.

Yeah, I mean, you gotta assume everyone's poking around a little bit. Like that's just like the baseline, you know, it doesn't even need to be shown anymore. That's just what's happening. Everyone's kind of poking around. Okay. Yeah, one thing I actually wanted to say,

I thought it was really cool, you know, that scene you brought up earlier where with Star and Camilla talking on the bench, I thought it was really fun how they did that because it was an information reveal in a way that would have been like confusing had they had it when they, you know, in the episode that had actually happened. But I loved the way that the editors, you know, created it where in that episode you sort of have them saying hi. So we know that conversation happened. And then here you kind of do the reveal of the actual information being exchanged

right when it's narratively relevant. I thought that was really beautiful. Let's talk about some of the other tribes that we saw in this episode. We have the new Siva tribe, which is Chrissy and Mitch, they stayed, where Cedric and Sey joins them, and Bianca is a person who's there on her own. What do you make

about this new Orange Tribe? Yeah, I mean, I was interesting that, you know, more like more animosity than we, I mean, obviously the interesting relationship to talk about here, like the most interesting, I mean, there were so many, like the Cedric Mitch thing was really beautiful. And again, I found myself getting teary-eyed again. Like I didn't sleep well last night. So, but like the Cedric safe thing is so interesting. I think that is really kind of at the heart of what we should talk about because of the Seva tribe

because, say he's mad at Cedric because he voted twice against her. He's like, yes, he saved me, but he also like repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to betray me. And, you know, that's why, that's why Cedric screwed up by saving, say, instead of Justin last week, because he had already, you know, crossed his Rubicon, you know, it's not like when Caesar was crossing the Rubicon, he's like, yeah, let's go back. Let's go change my mind. No, let's go back across the Rubicon. You know, you go across the Rubicon

once. That's why Caesar says the Rubicon is crossed. The die is cast. You do the thing and then you commit to the course of action. The die was cast for Justin. That's right, yeah. Yeah, no, I think that you make a great point. And last week we came on right after the episode to talk about all that.

But just in the days following, there was so much discourse about all of it that it really does feel like that Cedric did make the wrong decision. Maybe at the time, I don't know if I ever thought Cedric made a good choice. I mean, say I thought played it perfectly. Again, all credit to say, and all credit to say

for recognizing that Cedric is not a loyal ally to her. He's twice tried to vote her out in one tribal council. And her read is correct. He did ultimately save her, but you know, it's reasonable for, and that is again, like why Cedric really messed up. Like you make the choice and then you stick with what you did because otherwise that other person is always going

to resent you for the clear evidence they have of your disloyalty. Yeah. I think that we've seen this a lot in reality TV in the recent weeks of that, when you were in a first tie Like if you started in a tie, just keep going Don't flip your vote You know mid tie break you got to play it out Yeah, otherwise everyone's gonna be mad at you and you're gonna lose it anyway. Yes, that's correct

Yeah, so yeah, and so that is interesting. It's funny, there was a very, obviously a very funny contrast where Se is fully, you know, telling Bianca, don't trust Cedric, you know, make do your own reads, but Cedric has betrayed me. And then Cedric is like, what Se and I really have is trust and loyalty.

You know, like poor Cedric, poor benighted Cedric. Yeah, well, the episode starts and you hear Se mention that she feels stuck poor Cedric, poor, benighted Cedric. Yeah, well, the episode starts and you hear Say mention that she feels stuck with Cedric. And then of course, the survivor gods are gonna put them together after the tribe swap. And this is really presented as two, two and one. And that's how Bianca is reading this of like, okay.

And she ends up going to the two that she feels like okay I'm gonna go with say and Cedric and say is like maybe talk to Cedric and Bianca is like okay got it now I found the crack the problem for Bianca is she found the crack on the side that she was going to go work with Meanwhile Cedric has already started talking with Mitch and Chrissy And so I feel like that Bianca is on the wrong side of this already, plus she doesn't have a vote. Yeah, but it's interesting that Mitch and Chrissy

don't have any, you know, the fact that they were together for seven days and never got to talk strategically together. But I don't think there's any ill will. I don't think there's any animosity there. But there's no like built up loyalty. No loyalty. So it almost feels like that Cedric and Mitch are sort of like the base of power in this tribe.

Yeah, and if Mitch brings Chrissy and Cedric out of his misplaced sense of loyalty brings Se, then Bianca is out on the outs again. Yeah, and now Bianca has such an interesting scenario here where she doesn. Without a vote. Yeah, and now, so Bianca has such an interesting scenario here where she doesn't have a vote and she really needs this to be a three versus one. She can't be looking at this, and obviously she's not, because she knows,

but for the other pairs that are out there, you know, she can't really present herself to say in Cedric as, hey, I'm the piece you need to vote out Mitch or Chrissy here because that's not going to work. Yeah. I mean, on the other hand, if it's a two-two tie and she's not a part of it, like, hey, that's all right.

Not my problem. Well, just play that out for a second because I think it's interesting to think about. OK, so she sort of has, maybe she presents to both sides, hey, I'm going to be voting with you. So they're saying Cedric and then there's Chrissy and Mitch. Although it seems like that Mitch and Cedric are going to be on the same side of however, but let's just say for devil's advocate, it's two, two. And then she didn't have a vote. I feel like on the tie break, okay. Is it only would it?

And again, this is like, I hate to bring up the tie break rules again. So let's say it's three votes for say, and three votes for Chrissy. Okay. Now, all right. Now it's a tie. We can't vote for. I'm sorry. Two votes for say two votes for Chrissy. Now. Okay. Now, now it's a tie and we can, you can only vote for, so. The rules for the tie seem to change every episode. So it would then be at that scenario, Cedric and Mitch could only vote for Chrissy or say, Bianca is ineligible.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now that being said, then we would- If there was discussion, if it got down to the discussion, would they be able to discuss sending Bianca out? Yeah, so then if they would have to tie break again in that scenario, okay, so Cedric and Mitch go back up again, and then they cast their votes again

for Chrissy and say, now, okay, we are deadlocked, and now we would have to have either Cedric or- This is very funny. Cedric again in this spot. This is the problem with these complicated rules. Cedric or Mitch, one of them would have to flip their vote or they would go into a three person rock draw with Bianca. Right, or the discussion, right?

Where Bianca doesn't have a voice and it's Cedric and Mitch and Bianca choosing who goes home except Bianca can't speak and therefore Cedric and Mitch will in fact. Well, she can speak, but what she ultimately decides is not part of the equation. Well I thought the point, well right, well she can speak. Like we're not like, you know, taping her mouth shut, but like she doesn't have like a voice.

She doesn't have any, yeah. And one of those two guys would have to flip their vote or we would go to a three person rock draw with Bianca in it. Very wacky. Mm-hmm, do you think that that's what Bianca is hoping for? Is that the play for her? Well, I guess not, because you're right. Like if it is a tie, I mean,

obviously that's not a realistic scenario because it does look like Cedric and Mitch are working together. So it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen. Yeah, I feel like that Cedric, the way that he's like been making compromises might at that point turn to Mitch. It's like, okay, Mitch, Christie,

if I flip against Say again here, if I finally vote her out, then you'll keep me. We've got something good here. And they say, yes, you have my word. And then I think that say we'd go home. Yeah. Now, if it's Cedric, that is a part of the, like that they put the votes on.

I again, I don't think that would happen because Mitch and Cedric, but we'll more to come on that in episode five. When you get into an Escape Plug-in Hybrid, you get the perfect mix. You can chill in electric mode, turn it up in gas mode, or get the best of both in hybrid mode.

Choose how you move in the all-in-one Escape. And right now, get 0% APR purchase financing for up to 16 months on the 2025 escape plug-in hybrid. For details, visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. Steven, let's then talk about what's going on over with the new Loggy tribe. Interestingly, we have star Eva together again, David, Charity, and Mary. Now, I had wondered last week, what would happen with Star and her beware advantage?

What's interesting is that Star ends up getting very lucky that she doesn't have to switch beaches, so she still has a shot to solve the beware advantage. But your prediction was that, you know, suddenly they're gonna find that, you know, find it. But what would have happened if she had switched speeches? Because this was just a random draw. She would have just lost her vote until the merge, I think.

Wow. That would suck. Yeah, that would have sucked. But ultimately she still has a chance. And it looks like in the preview, there's gonna be some running around. Doesn't it ever say in these things, like as long as you're on this beach, you've lost your vote or something like. I think it looks like in the preview there's gonna be some running around. Doesn't it ever say in these things, as long as you're on this beach

you've lost your vote or something? I think it's up until the merge. I think that that was the language from the survivor 41. They need to change the language as long as you're on this beach or the merge, whichever first. They need a whole like, you know, codicil. Okay, so it really was all about David here.

Yeah, everyone loves David. Everyone loves David. Everyone loves David. Eva loves David. Yeah. Charity wants to bring David along, thinking that he is her patsy. Bringing him along, but it's interesting because David and Charity were not really vibing

at the old tribe beach. And then here, she tries to do the reverse of Kyle and Camilla, like, we are so close. He is like such a great ally of mine that we're like such a bond of loyalty and that he is just such a standup guy. Meanwhile, she's like, he's an idiot. Well, but that it's interesting

because situationally I think she's right, right? Like the Kyle and Camilla thing is they're like unequivocally on the bottom. They're at a three, two disadvantage. So for them to kind of like play it off against each other was obviously the strategically correct thing to do. Here, it makes sense to say we are unbreakable. You know, you're gonna look for the crack in the loggies

and to say like us two are not going to crack. So it's gonna have to, that crack is gonna have to come from the loggies. So I actually think Charity played it right here. I mean, David obviously, he did not, David didn't. And they hit quite the opposite. Uh, but, but, um, you know, then you have, uh, Eva throwing, you know, star under the bus, we don't really get to see stars response.

Unfortunately, I can't imagine she was, you know, standing strong for Eva. No, I don't think so. Now, what do you think is going to happen if this tribe goes through tribal council? I mean, I honestly think, you know, it's gonna be star charity probably from what we've seen. Yeah, so it seems like everybody, David is so well received here. And you know, David has like all these allies now

from all these different tribes where, you know, David I think gained the most in this episode where that you know, David, I think gained the most in this episode where that you had the people like he had like a four person alliance on his old tribe and now comes away with allies in Eva and Mary. Who else is there? It's also, you know, hopefully star. And yeah, so Eva, Eva star, Charity, Mary. So like- Yeah, David's in a good spot. And another confessional about like David's girlfriend

and how much he needs to, you know, get like a whole nother sequence about that. I mean, you know, old school survivor, you know, mid 30 survivor where like David is winning. Like if you got two sequences about how much you need to win this money so that you can, you know, propose 30 survivor where like David is winning. Like if you got two sequences about how much you need to win this money so that you can, you know, propose to your girlfriend. That's the-

He's at least getting the sprint fan favorite award. So that- Exactly. See ya, come back and watch Survivor. You, we have a job for you. Do you believe in love, see ya? Come on, we need you right now. Yeah.

But in this, in this world, you know, it's hard to say. It's really hard to say who it's gonna be. Mary, you know, totally in the clear here. Wonderful, love that for her. Mary is really gone from being on the way out to now very secure in the game. So I think Eva made a mistake here by saying, and I thought this might have blown up in her face,

but it didn't seem to. Where she said, you know, star is on the bottom. We all hate her. We all are targeting her. For most people, they're gonna think, great, we saved star. She's on the outs. We bring her in. And I think like, just like tactically, I don't know.

I think that might've, that seemed like it could have been a misstep. It didn't end up, nobody kind of jumped on that. It didn't end up having an effect it seemed, but when she said that, I was worried for her. So can I ask you about your own tribe swap experience? And let me ask you from Second Chances where, okay, so you are with Jeremy and with Kimmy and Monica, right?

And those are all people from your original tribe. And then here comes Spencer and Kelly Wigglesworth. And ultimately, first, maybe throw the challenge to get rid of Monica, or is it, we don't care if we win the challenge. Yeah, I mean, why did Jeremy, how sick was Jeremy feeling that he set out that challenge? I mean, one wonders.

You don't know. You don't know, okay? Must've been really sick, yeah. Okay, so then a similar decision to this of, you know, potentially of Kelly and Spencer fighting with each other, right? Right, yes. Both like making their cases

of why they should be the one to stay if it does come down to it. And how do you make that decision? How do you like believe them? Well, apparently we did, you know, the dark horse candidate and asked Monica. Yeah, but you know- Was that because both of them made compelling cases?

I think it was a terrible choice on our part. I think some people, I mean, some people felt that Monica was going to be disloyal, whatever, this is getting to the weeds of Cambodia. I think it's informative of How does a group of people, and I would say that you and Jeremy and Kimmy are like the California girls in terms of like- That's nice, thank you, wow.

How do you make the decision of who to keep when two people are trying to sing for their supper? Am I Joe in that equation? Do you wanna be Joe? I'd like to, I mean, really, we have to- So Jeremy is a little bit more the Joe. Jeremy's probably Joe and I'm probably Shaheen, you know, with the beard. You know, and Kimmy is Thomas.

Yeah. Just because there's the third one. The yeah. So I mean, you're right. Like it does come down to like vibes. I mean, obviously with the returning player season, there's a lot more. Like I knew Spencer. I mean, can I call him Spencer just for convenience? I mean, he was Spencer then.

He was Spencer then. Right. But, you know, Ryman, I mean, can I call him Spencer? Just for convenience. Rhyman now. He was Spencer then. Right. But you know, Rhyman, I knew him and, you know, so, and Jeremy knew him. And so I felt a lot of loyalty and closeness to him. And I kind of said to him, you know, I'll keep you. Obviously there was something fun about playing survivor with Kelly Wigglesworth, you know, who I had watched

play survivor many, many years before. So yeah, I mean, I think you're kind of like, and then, you know, you I had watched play survivor many, many years before. So yeah, I mean, I think you're kind of like, and then, you know, you get into this position of dominance where you're like, hmm, who's working hardest around camp while we laze around, you know, who's really hustling to like, please me. You know, you do get into this sort of like, it's so crazy just how these kind of like primal dynamics

end up playing out so quickly, you know, whereas like a day before I was like this little weasel like scuttling around to save myself. And now I was like walking around camp like a king watching these two, you know, desperate to please me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that, I think you're right. Like it comes down to vibes.

It comes down to who you think you can work with. Again, like with the returning player season, it's a little more tricky. I mean, do you guys had a tribe swap? Didn't you, you, did you have a tribe swap? We did have a tribe swap in Survivor of the Amazon. And I was much more of like, I felt like I was at the bottom.

I felt like that I was looking ahead and I thought that Matthew might be voted out before me, but I was worried like if we go to two more tribal councils before the merge and there's no tribe swap, I was really feeling like I could be in trouble. I felt like that I was, you know, at least, at that point, there were six of us and I felt like that I was fifth in the pecking order.

And so, and I thought that was a possibility because Matthew had just like caught a fish and I thought that there was a chance that I could be the person who goes out if we went to another tribal council. And so we won the tribal, we won immunity in the fourth episode and I was safe. And then we had the tribe swap in episode five,

which was what I was hoping for. And then everything changed when I got to be around some new people who appreciated me a little bit more. Dina. Dina, Jenna, Shawna. Yeah, so that was the Tribe Swap. The Na Na Na's. Did you do Na Na Na's?

I did do some Na Na Na's in Survivor, famously. And so they brought me in and the rest was history. So the Tribe Swap can really change your fortunes. Yeah, it truly can. And it's wild how it does happen and everything. Not a lot of scenarios like the tribe swap in real life where it's like, okay, well, you have a nice, comfortable life and now you're trading places

with this person who's really just scraping by and now switch lives. Yeah, the Prince and the Popper though, Rob. They did that. They worked that well for both of them, by the way. But they wanted it. They wanted it. It's like, oh, I'm so tired of all the trappings

of running the tribe. I wish I was on the bottom. I could be the scrappy underdog and then people would root for me. Right, right. The grass is always greener. Yeah. I did think that, say, so immediately throwing,

Cedric under the bus was kind of a mistake because that's not how you Motsing, right? Like even say it says, right? Like when, when, when she says like, you know, now we're going to swap and we're going to watch you guys pick each other apart and we're going to be the swing votes. But like not if you're throwing each other under the bus, like the whole point of the Motsing strategy is that at the

end of it, you're all like a tight little trio, you know? And then, and then you kind of work together to pick the other teams apart. You don't still keep picking yourselves apart. Right, but I just think that the wound is so fresh between Say and Cedric that I feel like that, I'm worried for Cedric because Say does not forget. Yeah, all right.

Wait, one other thing I wanted to say was, do you think that Jeff was kind of like feeding, now that it's kind of become a thing that, you know, the person Jeff asks to summarize their journey might be the person going home. Do you think Jeff's kind of playing into that or he really gave Camilla, he was kind of like, Camilla, how would you summarize this journey for you,

for yourself? I was a little bit worried. I think that maybe he was like, maybe playing that up for them, but then he did go to Thomas and that was where I was, I didn't know if it was gonna be Shaheen or Thomas and then when he asked Thomas about his journey, I was like, oh.

But Thomas offered it. Thomas was like, you know, what do you think, Thomas? And you know, then he kind of like, he ran with it. But yeah. Yeah. But I think he kind of like, you know, now that it's become, I wonder if like, Jeff is kind of like, you know,

not letting the players metagame him. Kind of mixing up the metagame. Yeah, I do wonder it's also selection bias of like what we ultimately see in the episode. Like who knows what they're gonna do. But the editors then are metagaming, right? Because they're then like faking us out. Someone is metagaming someone, that's all I care about.

Yeah, okay. Steven, let me talk about a couple things and then we'll get into our fishy award. Big news this weekend. Blood on the Clock Tower, of course, a passion project of Stephen Fishback, of Christian Hubecky. The fans love it. We are back with a big episode coming up on Saturday. And that's, Sam, what time is that going to drop at?

On the RHAP YouTube channel, you can at two o'clock, you can check it out, go to watch. 2 p.m. Eastern. RHAP.com to get everything you need to know and subscribe on the YouTube channel to see Survivors Play Blood on the Clock Tower episode three. Super fun game. You know, as you can engage a little bit about it

from the giant image we have of Owen with red eyes and horns coming out of his head, but it was a really chaotic and extremely fun game. It's really fun to interact with these people who I've watched on my television, you know, and play, see them in like a different strategic environment. And then like we've got like some like just great confessionals. I mean, some of these people, you know, they're, they're good.

They know what they're doing. They know what they're doing with a, with a camera. If you're a newcomer to Blood on the Clock Tower, I'm going to try to hold your hands as much as I can through it and keep everybody, whether you are a novice to the game or somebody who's an expert should be a lot of fun coming up on Saturday. Then we've also got everything that's going on over on Patreon, where I will be taking questions

from our listeners. If you've got questions about the Survivor episode, I would love to hear them. I'll be taking them live coming up on Friday afternoon. I do that at 3 p.m. Eastern. Go to robhasawwebsite.com slash patron for that, okay? And then also you can join us over every week when we chat during the episode over on chatBCC

in the Survivor Group chat. Go to robhasawebsite.com slash VIP chat. Had a lot of fun there talking about the episode with everybody. All right, Stephen, fishy award time. Oh yeah, great. I was gonna say by the chat PCC, like it was very fun cause Mike, Mike Bloom, you know, who's active over there,

you know, brought out who the, what the three tribes were. And I, as well as many others, very confidently predicted that Vula was going to be fine. That there was a question of, you know, was it going to be Siva or Lagi? And no, we were wrong. Yeah, blew it. Okay. But Stephen, tonight, a big night,

who gets the Fishy Award? I feel like this is a layup and you're not gonna like it, but I do think it needs to go to two people. Are you okay with that, Rob? I don't love it. You go to two people? I don't love it. Well, then we can talk it through.

All right, I mean, obviously it should be Kyle and Camilla getting the fishy award. They took this three, two deficit. They perfectly played up their rivalry by underselling it such that the California girls completely believed it. Then they deployed their advantages correctly. They correctly read that Kyle was gonna be the target.

And so they gave Kyle the idol. And especially when Shaheen was going through his bag, that kind of confirmed it for them. So they took the evidence of the game. And then they also played their extra vote so that even if the idol, it had not been Kyle, there still would have been a revote where I think they would have been strategically advantaged.

So they used their, the advantages they had, they played it beautifully. I think they played it so beautifully together. I would like to give it to both of them. Tell me why I shouldn't first off Is that a fishy for Kyle and the fishy for Camilla because people keep stats on this Rob's fact-checker is gonna be I feel like they're better than me. I say it's a fishy for both and they figure it out Okay

All right But a fishy for both or is it a half fishy for each a fishy for each of one It's like it's like it's like the Oscar like or like, you know Whenever it's like any of those awards. Like when the producing team gets a statuette, every single one of them gets a statuette. So, with all due respect to Kyle, I feel like Camilla did more to make this. And I think that, you know, failure is a bastard, but success has a million parents. But in this case, if I was gonna break up like the, dole out the credit, I think this was like 70% Camilla, 30% Kyle, and maybe there was more that we

didn't see in the episode, but we saw that Camilla is just a gifted creative storyteller, aka a liar, and I love watching her so much. She's so much fun, she's so chaotic, but I think that we saw her really selling this to more people. The fact that she was able to really convincingly sell the idea that she was at the bottom. She was willing to jump ship. She did not waver. Like there was a world where she could have really, you know, well, I guess she knew Kyle had the idol, but I think she could have like potentially tried to like, hey, Kyle has the idol, like, let's make him feel like

a false sense of security and then we'll blindside him with the idol. Like she could have gone a different way with it. She ultimately really stuck to this plan and then ultimately, you know, gets out a really big player out of the game. I didn't love the way that she blew up Thomas's spot. I would give it to just Cam she blew up Thomas's spot. I would give it to just Camilla, but it's your award. Well, let me make the case why I think Kyle

actually because I think Camilla, like she started that lie, right? She said, you know, I'm at the bottom and that kind of opened the door to this lie. But it was Kyle who really sold it, right? It was him saying, oh no, I wouldn't say that. That's not the case at all. Like it was that type of underselling it that I think that's what really sold it, right? It was him saying, Oh, no, I wouldn't say that. That's not the case at all. Like, it was that type of underselling it that I think that's what really sold. I think if Kyle had gone in there and said, Yeah, you're at the bottom and we hate you, you know, then suddenly they're, you know, they're spidey senses are going to be tingling and everything goes a different way. I think the way that Kyle sold it, you know, and again, like even the way he sold it at tribal council, where he plays up, Oh, you know, we've got this bond and I really like her and I'm so sad to see her go.

You know, that's how you would play it. If you really like cared about some, I mean, I'm sorry, if you really were against someone. So I think that he did it beautifully. You know, part of me just wants to give it to only Camilla so that you, you know, so that the Kyle stands can rise up against you. But I think I really, I really feel like they both deserve it. So I am going to give it to both Kyle and Camilla. Double fishy award.

Now, Steven, now we were talking schedule earlier. It sounds like next week, you're not going to be able to join us for the know it alls. And so we will have- Coming back from spring break. Woo, party. Okay, all right. We're going to have a scab know-it-all here

to take your place next week. But, Steven, do I have your consent to give out the official fishy award next week? Oh my gosh, well with this kind of dissension, no, I feel like we're usually pretty in sync about this other than this week. I like to give out one award, that's it. No bonus, bonus fishy, I like the cut of Rome's jib.

I'll give you power of a fishy. Okay, thank you, I appreciate that. So episode five, I will give out the sole fishy next week. Now, Stephen, we haven't done any sort of edit check-in. Are you prepared for that tonight? I'm out. I mean, I can't try. The new era has broken me on editing. I know there are people out there who claim to be able to. I don't care about like their official thing. What I like about it is that you don't have like the scientific data of, okay, this is like exactly what's going to happen.

But they're really good at giving everybody a story. And it's so hard when two tribes haven't been to travel council, so many players, we haven't seen them at all, barely. I mean, I feel there's people we could rule out who I think I can reliably say are not going to win. I would be shocked if Chrissy won or Star won. Even honestly, even Mitch,

as much content as Mitch has gotten for some reason, I think that like he's gotten less of the strategic content than some of the others and you know um who's on your short list though to win I mean I really you know I there's so many though you know it's so hard I really what do you tell me you started off okay I think Camilla I feel like is the person that I really have an eye on I think that Camilla has just been very much in the spotlight. I think that she would be a very fun person to go on and win the season. If she goes on to win, she said in the preseason, I'm going to play a very fluid, messy game that's going to be very fun for people to watch.

And so far she has lived up to that. So I think that her as a winner, I think would be very interesting. I think another Canadian, can we handle another Canadian winner? Well, are you trying to provoke a fight between our country and Canada, Stephen? No, I'm trying to heal a fight. Stoke the tension? I think we could handle it. Kyle, I think, is certainly in contention. Shaheen... After everything Mary Ann has brought on this country, you don't think it's enough? Kyle is in the conversation.

I think Shaheen, I feel like Shaheen, maybe I'm a little bit lower on after this episode, going through the rest of the tribes. How do you feel about- Yeah, they really showed him getting snowed. They really like leaned into him as the one who got snowed. Yeah, Joe was kind of a non-factor. What about Yeah. What about Joe? People say Joe is a big contender. Joe was a non-factor, but also a non-factor in an episode where his side things did not

go well. Yeah. And that's right. Well, that's right. It's often people who are edit readers will say they're protecting him from being part of that. We've certainly seen a lot of Joe sort of like, you know, moral center and his like his person. I mean, we saw him at the very start with talking about how proud his kids would be of him. I think Joe is very viable. I don't think Cedric is viable. No, I don't think so either. I think, I honestly don't think Say is viable. I think we've got, I mean, she's been a huge character, but you know, a huge character when she was really at the center of the action. And what you look for with edit manipulation, and I hate even talking about this, because I'm always wrong, is you look for-

That's what's fun about it. Yeah, it is what's fun about it. You look for when people are inserted in ways that is not necessarily central to the narrative. So David would be someone you'd have to consider, again, hearing so much about how much he can. I think Mary is also somebody that we should keep an eye on also.

Yeah, Mary too. I mean, she was kind of like, we didn't get a lot of her in like the first episode. So there you're like, why did we not see so much Mary when, you know, she ends up being, you know, having a huge role in the next two episodes. So, I mean, we saw a little bit of her, you know, enough,

but I wouldn't say she was one of the biggest characters that popped in that episode. And just for, you know, the record, like if we did this after episode four of Survivor 47, I do not think we would have said that we thought Rachel was a contender to win. Yeah, absolutely not. So yeah.

Something to keep an eye on. Yeah. Okay, all right. Steven, let's then talk about a couple other things going on here on RHAP. Dandy is really heating up. We're down to the finale of Deal or No Deal Island. We'll be next week on Tuesday.

I talked about episode 11, the ultimate episode of Deal or No Deal Island. We had two exit interviews this week. You can catch that all. WeKnowDandi.com and over on our scripted TV podcast, I'm talking about The White Lotus with Josh Wiggler. And did you happen to see our friend Christian Hubicki was on the White Lotus?

I saw that, that's so fun, with Emily. Yeah, so check that out. Emily Hubicki, not Emily Flippen. Yes, okay. You can check out my coverage with Josh Wiggler over at We Know Scripted TV, also where they're gonna be doing a bang up job talking about the Severance season finale tomorrow. So that's all on We Know Scripted TV dot com.

All right, Steven, anything else on your mind? No, you know, just, you know, please sign up. So apparently my newsletter form is now working again. We'll see. You know, StephenFishback.com. There's a newsletter sign up. Be the first in your friend community to hear about all the fun events. Be an influencer.

Be, yeah, a fish influencer. To learn all about the events. I will be doing events like in cities across the country and yeah, you know, sign up. I'll, you know, coming to a town near you. All right, so looking forward to all of that next year. And then also we'd love to read your comments over here on the YouTube video.

I read them every week. I love to wake up on Thursday morning and read what everybody had to say. So please, there's one person I didn't like to read who was like, why do I have to listen to a podcast with Stephen Fishback about Survivor? Like, I really like, there's no other podcasts for you to listen to about Survivor,

even just if you wanna listen to Rob Sesternito and any other people. There's only one podcast about Survivor with Stephen. I apologize, that was my burner, okay? I'm sorry, I apologize. Yeah, no, but I do listen. I do go through all the comments as you can see and judge them Yeah, yeah. No, I love the back and forth with the community. I love to read what everybody has to say

So thank you so much for participating in this conversation with us and as long as you're respectful I don't mind if you say we got it wrong. Yeah, I mean but try to be extra respectful Okay, yeah, and say Rob got it wrong. That's fine. You can listen. Oh, they say Rob got it wrong all the time, but I love to read it anyway. So thank you so much, everybody.

Take care and we've got a busy Thursday coming up here on RHAP. Have a good one. Bye. Bye.