RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Ep 8

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Today, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 48 episode 8.

Ooh, nice! Air Canada has a worldwide sale. Wow, look at this deal to the Philippines. Nice, let's book it. But wait, Naples is also a steal. Saving seafood and sun? You want sun? There's a hot deal to Mexico. And even hotter to Yellowknife. Nice, but I thought you wanted tropical hot.

You're all over the map. Well, yeah, we've got over 180 destinations to choose from. Saving on every single destination. Nice. Hurry, book at aircanada.com or contact your travel agent. Conditions apply. Air Canada. Nice travels. Steven, hit the music. You stole my material. This is outrageous. You wanted to say it?

I thought I, well, I mean it was fine. The smartest guys around are about to break it down. Moments away from breaking it down. The game a million times around. About to break it down. Moments away from breaking it down. The game a million times. Wow. Oh, are we gonna be live on video while it plays in the background? That's what I said!

Oh, I thought you meant like, oh, I didn't understand that. I just thought you meant like behind our screen we're gonna sing. Surviving no way to hold. I said I don't like the decendio while the music plays. You're like, oh yeah! I thought you meant like, the decider with the cameras off. Yes! Yes!

Alright. A strategic misstep to get things started. As we were about to go, I'm like, oh, I forgot to start the theme song. Steve's like, just do it. Say hit the music. Yeah. And I thought that we were gonna still have the screen

of like the music countdown. Not that, no, Rob, this was a miscommunication. And it speaks to an episode of miscommunications. Hey, on Survivor, as in life, sometimes it's hard to exactly nail down what you and your allies are trying to do. And that was illustrated very clearly tonight in a nine to one vote that was anything

but straightforward. Well, that's what, I mean, this was such a fun, to me this was like what I want from a merge episode. It's like all of these dynamics that we've been seeing all the season, like come together into interpersonal conflict. And, you know, like Jeff, because he's not on the beach, only sees the blowout vote. And I think that's why he is like, you know, we should we need split tribes and we need to mix everything up. But like the dynamic of how you get to that vote

is so interesting. Whoa, I lost my earphones. That is, I mean, like, and like I'm so excited to talk about it with you. I love this episode, but before we get into it, Rob, I really wanna know what is the largest animal you could take in a fight. Oh, I feel like maybe like a, like maybe like a poodle mix, I think.

Like a vicious one or like a tame one? I think like if it's semi-vicious. Yeah, I was thinking I could take a golden retriever, but only because the golden retriever would like let me win. They're so friendly. And you would enjoy it. You would enjoy even being taken by the golden retriever. Right, okay. All right, well, a lot to break down. Excited to catch up with Steven. And you would enjoy it. You would enjoy even being taken by the Golden Retriever. Right.

Okay. All right. Well, a lot to break down. Excited to catch up with Steven after I was in Boston last week, robbing Elbows. Hobnobbing with the glitterati. I like you texted me that you were hobnobbing with the Pizzarati.

I thought that was very good. The Pizzarati when I was at Luigi's Pizza. And Steven, a lot of people have been asking me for glitterati merch. People want to be in the glitterati. That's Pizza. And Steven, a lot of people have been asking me for Glitterati merch. People wanna be in the Glitterati. That's great. That's a great idea. Yeah, so right now we're trying to source the ideas

of what does the Glitterati merch mean? Is it like, am I- Are you the Glitterati or are you like hobnobbing with the Glitterati? No, people are wanna be in the Glitterati. I am in the Glitterati. Got it, got it, got it. Yes, and then you will want to go hobnob with them.

Maybe hobnob with me. Oh, I see. Glitterati on the back. OK? All right, well, we were hobnobbing with the glitterati virtually earlier tonight over on chat BCC. Come on over and hang out with the who's who of the survivor glitterati, when

you can talk with us during the episode and all week long. Go to robinsthewebsite.com slash VIP chat to skip the wait list and join us over on chatBCC. And we're just getting the conversation started this week because we will have great week of podcasts as one of my favorite guests to talk to, two of my favorite guests to talk to. two of my favorite guests to talk to.

Someone's gonna be offended by that. Well, I love getting Drew Bissell on the podcast. He has so much fun stuff to say. Jeopardy champion. He's got hot takes, that he is a very funny guy, so I'm looking forward to talking to him on Thursday. And then, on our old school interview, I'm gonna chat with somebody that we know well from chat BCC Kelly Wentworth

And so join us on Monday for that one Make sure you subscribe to the podcast and make sure you hit that subscribe button if you're watching us here on YouTube and you can Catch everything we're doing over at we know survivor Dot-com alright Steven. So yeah, I'm interested to get into this vote. I did feel like that getting to sort of the strategic figuring out what was going on here, I feel like it took a while, like probably got like an hour into the episode before it started getting good. Yeah, but when it got good, it was so hot, you know, it was really, yeah, it was really

interesting. I mean, I'm trying to even think of what I mean we had that very fun, you know the animal discussion There was still like well and the challenge choices. I thought was interesting the way that worked out Yeah, you know, it was interesting to see the the stuff with people like being a little suspicious of Shaheen and and then you get into this very This is of Shaheen. And then you get into this very interesting question and ultimately culminates in this big argument between Kyle and David, where Kyle is doing his best to protect his number one ally

without trying to reveal that alliance. And David, correctly, is suspicious of why everyone is trying to keep Camilla in the game. Yeah, and it really was an interesting proxy battle is suspicious of why everyone is trying to keep Camilla in the game. Yeah, and it really was an interesting proxy battle where that David, we have the strong five, and it's a little confusing. The strong five ends up being,

it's David, Joe, Eva, Shaheen, and Kyle. That's the- And now the strong six. The strong five. And so David says, hey, guess what? It should be a strong six. I've got a friend, she should be in the, we should make the strong five a strong six.

And you know who the strong six should be? The smallest person out here. That's the strong six. Now, I love how the alliances grow to be like, totally, this is out of scope. You know, in the design creative industry, we say this is out of scope. Yeah, well, I will say in Mary's defense

in terms of being a member of the, maybe she's like, this is like a, on the brawn tribe, you have somebody who's kind of like scrappy. You see she glides through the mud. She is like very good. She's an incredible swimmer, Mary. So she is good, but she's not big.

No, the whole premise is like the big guys are banding together. And then you have this like very thin girl Who's like also part of the big guys and like Eva who's like, you know, like she's she's yeah She's on the men's hockey team. Yeah, right I mean she like she makes sense But it was like when Alicia like you said like the Braun tribe when Alicia was on the Braun tribe in and Koran you're like Well, you she's got heart Yeah, but I don't understand why Camilla couldn't be

in the strong six because I thought that the beauty of this alliance, like what we saw back early on, where after the Thomas vote, you went, yes, Kyle and Camilla were sort of like playing that they weren't necessarily that close, but they had that conversation. It's like, hey, all four of us come from these backgrounds where we share so much and that our families

went through so much and it sort of made it sound like, wow, this four, we could really do something. And in the pre-merge, before pre-swap, that Kyle and Camilla were in a four-person alliance with David. And so it was like, and here comes Eva, who was tight with Joe and Shaheen. So if anything, it seemed like sort of a natural thing

that okay, well now David and Eva are gonna join up with this four, and they were gonna be six, but we never really got how Camilla, I guess was there some sort of like physical fitness test that she could not pass that David said, no, no Camilla in the strong five. It was like when JT and James were racing on the beach, you gotta like do a backwards race against JT

to see if you can get into this. So yes, I mean, like it is a testament to how arbitrary these alliance lines are, but like it's like, any alliance has to be, there is that arbitrary level, it's like it's an onion. i do wonder you know kyle's kind of in a bind because on the one hand you know it sort of behooves him to be like listen i'm kamila's on i mean he's kind of like towing the lines like she's always voting with us she seems to really be on in the same page as us but if he says like hey she's my secret, then suddenly he squanders all this trust with these guys who, you know, and this is David's whole thing. It's like, this is

the strong five, the strong guys are taking back the game. So it's a really tricky position for him to be in. And it is sort of an arbitrary line, but like all lines are arbitrary, you know, about lines too, in addition to all All borders are arbitrary, you know? It's like who decides where the end of the state is or the end of a nation is, you know? Okay, I didn't even think of that. Yeah. I wanna go back to last week a little bit because-

Unless it's like a river or a mountain, there's a river that's- Or like an ocean, that's a somewhat non-arbitrary line. Non-arbitrary. Yeah. I wanna go back to last week's episode because you and I didn't get to talk after last week's episode. By and I didn't get to talk after last week's episode

by the way Sam Fallon Phelan did an incredible job Incredible. It was great. Yeah. Yeah, there's been some a plus, you know sub ends here Owen was phenomenal. Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, we see this season or less. That was I believe last season. Well time flies That was I believe last season well time flies well, but so going back to last week I'm really surprised that David is so down on Camilla now. I don't remember was it was it Kyle and Camilla or was it just Kyle who end up going to David and saying hey Shaheen has an idol We need no it was specifically Camilla who said that which was so funny because then like then David thinks that it's That Shaheen and Camilla are together and that because Shaheen has this idol. They should vote out Camilla, but she was trying to Throw him under the bus last week was just like a misinterpretation because that's the thing that I didn't get it was like

Shaheen says hey, you know what? I'll be partners with Camilla It's like Shaheen says hey, you know what? I'll be partners with Camilla It's like oh my god What a reveal that they must have a final two So and I don't know if maybe this is coming more from Mary who is sussing this out But that I didn't understand why if they're trying to get Shaheen potentially voted out on the Cedric vote Why do they come into this vote feeling like hey, you know, we need to break up Shaheen and Camilla. It does feel like there's like, you know, and obviously when you're on Survivor, you're having constant conversation. So like the one conversation that makes it to television, which we over index on, isn't probable. It doesn't necessarily loom as large in any individual

players mind. But, you know, it seems like there is a real burgeoning relationship, at least from Shaheen's perspective, right with Camilla. He says, I want like there is a real burgeoning relationship, at least from Shaheen's perspective, right with Camilla. He says, I want like, I feel tight with Camilla. I want her to be my like extra person in this group. Camilla doesn't feel that way. She's targeting Shaheen. But like, obviously, there is something there that David is correctly picking up on, right?

He's correctly intuiting that, oh, my other, like Shaheen wants to be in this relationship with Camilla. It makes a lot of sense in that. David is totally right that if you see that, like you wanna sever it to like bring that person in. And then when Kyle pushes back so hard on Camilla, like, you know, this is David again, like correctly into it's like,

everyone is really working hard to protect Camilla. I really need to get Camilla out of this game. Like that is a correct series of logical, you know, to say, oh, so yeah, I've got more to say. But yeah, so this is very complicated because I think that in another world where then the threat wasn't coming for Camilla, I think that there was a possibility that Camilla and Mitch were working on trying to get Siva back together and that they wanted to make this play against Shaheen and so ultimately like this play this potential overplay by David and Mary to say like hey we need to go after Camilla ends up forcing, you know, Kyle to really

push on Joe to ultimately get them to make the move to take out Chrissy at this tribal council. But really, like, had that not have happened, it might have been Shaheen who goes home in this vote. Yeah, because there did seem to be real. Well, I actually don't think that's the case because I don't think that was ever in the cards for David. Like, I think David is, you know, he was even barely entertaining that in the conversation. You know, when they're actually talking to him about it. And they were counting on him, potentially.

But you know, it really did ultimately force the Chrissy vote which may or may not have been the case. Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I think they might have like considered more broadly. It did seem like Chrissy was the likeliest to go home from that group. Certainly we knew she was throwing out Joe's name, throwing out a lot.

And she was so vocal at that other travel council. I think that like, Chrissy maybe blames herself for talking her way out of the game. I think she's probably going home in that spot anyway, unless Camilla goes home. I mean, it's funny you say that David overplayed here and they did push too hard. What I think this episode was missing

was a confessional from Mary, because she seemed to be the one who was pushing this harder than anybody, at least to start, right? And then we have her on reward. She says, this is the one where I'm really gonna speak up. This is the one where I really wanna put my foot down. And we never got her really talking through her thinking

of why she was pushing so hard on Camilla. Yeah, what do you think she's seeing? I mean, maybe she's seeing that Camilla is, what David's seeing, which is that Camilla's competing for her spot as the sixth in the strong five. Yeah, and so do you feel like that, I mean, to go back to your time in Cambodia, was this a little bit like where you and Spencer were trying to

be buying for the same spot? I think that's probably is right. Well, it is sort of, there's that element to it, right? Where like you, you know, your own position in the game, you know, you really work towards, but then there's other people who are clawing towards that exact same position. And so like, yeah, of course, like that person is going to be your biggest threat. But then there's other people who are clawing towards that exact same position um And so like yeah, of course like that person is going to be your biggest threat Like, you know mary who's like existing on the side of this power structure

You know, of course like she most wants to you know The people who are most threatening to her are not the people at the center of the power structure But the people who are are, you know, also clinging to be on the outside of the power structure i'd love to look at this from the perspective of Joe, who is kind of like the patriarch of this alliance, where it seems like that in maybe like the godfather of like, okay, David is coming to him with something, Kyle is coming to him with something,

and it does seem like that he's the one who's gonna ultimately decide, all right, this is the way we're going. Yeah. It's really amazing, right, that this guy who is very strong, very well-liked, in an explicit duo with this other person, basically unbreakable, they're always cheering for each other at the challenge.

Everyone was like, you go, ladies! And Joe was like, you like you go Eva and only Eva you know it's like there's like no ambiguity about it and like nobody is coming from him at form and I thought Chrissy said it really well and interestingly at Tribal Council where she says you know in any other season this guy is the target how come on this season he's not a target and like this is why David this is one of the reasons I love David and there was this big debate online last over the past week of like you know David like great addition because he's so different from recent casting or like you know kind of annoying because he's not going you know he's not playing strategically he's doing honor and loyalty and

that's such BS. I don't think actually a lot of people were saying that but that was a straw man that a lot of people were reacting against. And it's so fun to have someone who isn't a survivor super fan, who's extremely handsome, who's gonna push for this strong thing. It just creates a whole different set of strategies and a different way of playing where these assumptions that we've been making

for all these past seasons, oh, this duo, you've got to target them, this guy's this way, you got to go for him, are suddenly in flux and players have to figure out how to react against that. Yeah, I agree. I'm sure that David, I think that, is it fair to say he's coming to be the villain

of the season? Is that- I mean, he's sort of like the anti-hero. I mean, in my mind, he's the hero. Or, you know, but- Yeah, sure. I mean, Joe's the hero. Sure, but I feel, in my mind, he's the hero. Or, you know, I think Joe's the hero. Yeah.

But I feel like that this show, the editing, I feel like, was sort of like, okay, is Camilla gonna get through this? Like, I think that was, she was like the, that was the story, I feel like, that the show was telling tonight of, are Kyle and Camilla gonna be able to figure this out against David, who's sort of pounding the table?

No, we have to get rid of Camilla. And as a show, as a story, we've been so invested in Kyle and Camilla. And so I don't mean that there's anything evil about David, but I just feel like in terms of like the narrative that we're seeing, like it's not necessarily putting David forward as the protagonist. Is that fair to say? I don't necessarily agree with that. I mean, maybe on the margin, I agree with that. But I do think like what's so great about Survivor is you know, some people are gonna be like that guy that like strong guy is so annoying like and like the Strategists like are like working against him and other people are gonna be like yeah That guy is like thinking a different way and like those those weasels over there are lying to him, you know

I mean it was like on on Cambodia When some people were like gosh that Savage is such a bully to Fishback. And other people were like, gosh, that Fishback really is so pathetic. Like Savage is so accurate. No, I mean, I certainly saw that on Twitter. I do think what's great about reality TV is everybody's kind of watching it

from a different perspective. And I think that is really true here with this David slash Kyle Camilla, back and forth. We never got to see how the issue got resolved to ultimately get nine people on the same page. What do you think that conversation looked like? Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, I do wonder, and you know,

Chrissy says like, well, maybe it happened. She kind of hinted that she thought she talked her way out of the game and that like it was something She said I tribal council. I don't think you get a unanimous vote in that situation Should she have played her shot in the dark I think so I it's gonna be my first question for her on Thursday of all why didn't she what confidence did she have? That the vote was going to be going against Shaheen? Yeah. Mitch didn't even vote for Shaheen. Yeah, well, that's right.

So that's right. I mean, I was kind of wondering like where Mitch and, you know, Starr were gonna be because they were sort of like explicitly out of the conversation. There was that very funny like brief scene where they're like, oh, looks like survivors happening over there.

But yeah, so what was that very funny brief scene where they're like, oh, looks like Survivor's happening over there. But yeah, so what was that conversation? Because David really pushed back hard on that. And I bet we get a confessional from him next week leading out, like, I didn't wanna do that, I thought it was the wrong move, but I had to give in. So I suspect that Joe is the person who ultimately says all right everybody get together Here's what we're doing. I have to say tell me if you think that this is really off base here, but I want to compare Joe to a

Survivor all-stars Boston Rob now. I don't think that from a strategy perspective They are nearly the same person. But I do think that there is some leader vibes that both of them give off. And both of them had a very public relationship where it was totally clear to all involved, this is my number one person, Rob with Amber and Joe with Eva. And instead of where Chrissy is saying, is this the upside down? Why aren't we breaking this up? These two people are together.

What are we even doing here? And you definitely saw some people saying and thinking that in Survivor All-Stars, and maybe I might've been thinking it in my head and not saying it out loud, but for whatever reason that people have a lot of reverence for Joe. They're willing to follow him that he has like this quiet confidence. They're not too concerned with you know Joe and Eva and rather than trying to break it up,

they are flocking to be a part of this and better to not upset the apple cart, it feels a lot like the post-merge game of Survivor also is minus sort of like all of the bitterness and everything with Lex and Kathy. We don't have that part yet, but where you have Chrissy coming out of the game kicking and screaming, hey, everybody, what are you even doing?

And it's really Joe calling the shots. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's an interesting, that's a really interesting comparison. I think that's a really good comparison. And I think Joe benefits here from having David, who is so much more vocally, like I'm the guy all about the strong five,

and he's the one who's getting into the scraps at tribal council, and he's the one who's, into the scraps at tribal council and he's the one who's, you know, um, arguing back with Kyle where, so that gives Joe this position to be in the middle. And let me give you a different returning player season that I actually think is going to be an interesting comparison here too. Maybe not physically one to one, but I wonder if Joe is a little bit like Cochran and Kara Moen where you have Philip Shepard who is the David of the season

and he's the one like, this is our alliance, here's our squad, this is the team. And then Cochran is kind of like the guy who's off to the side, he's got his relationship with Dawn, that's like this unbreakable bond that they have. And so everyone kind of is coming to Cochran as the like, you know, person in the middle there. Yeah, I mean it could still be just Boston Rob in Redemption Island and that he has here's Philip and like, hey, like

winding Philip up. Because you get the sense that Joe could sort of like turn to David like, all right David, that's enough. Like and David would kind of back down. Because I really just feel like however this came to to be I just feel like that Joe was like, all right We're doing Chrissy tonight and of course that Chrissy was the person who was at the last tribal council talking about Joe Kyle comes back with the information about hey that Chrissy is still talking about Joe So at the end of the day, I think it does serve Joe to see Chrissy go home. And that, let's, okay, I kinda, I don't know yet about Camilla. I'm not sure about, you know,

should Mary be in the Alliance? Let's just sleep on it. And in the meantime, let's get rid of the person who is most vocal about breaking up Joe and Eva. Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. I mean, but on the other hand, like Chrissy also had, from what we've seen, like the least social traction. She was like tight with Mitch,

but she wasn't gonna like get a real counterinsurgency going in a way that it did look like Camilla might have the wherewithal to pull a move or two. And so, I mean, I think like, for Joe's ideal move here is I think for Camilla to go home, right? And it's for all the reasons that David is saying. It's like, it cuts off Shaheen's options,

it cuts off Kyle's options, and it gets rid of someone who is very intelligently playing the game. Yeah, it may come back to bite Joe in the butt. I'm just not sure necessarily if that is the right call in terms of like, okay, you cut Camilla free. You know, does that also now destabilize your alliance with Kyle?

Does he end up trying to pick up some of these other pieces of send him back to Chrissy and Mitch? Is there maybe? I don't know. I don't think that's Kyle's end game. Well, I'm just trying to think of what- Just to jump from the winning alliance to the losing group.

Yeah. But let's talk about it from Kyle's point of view because I'm curious, do you think Kyle went too hard? I mean, obviously he got his way, right? So Camilla stayed and that was good. But like in that argument, I was really wondering, like how hard do you push for your like, your number one ally here?

Yeah, I think that Kyle did a pretty good job here. I think that if I was gonna critique anything, I think I should have, I think I would have made it a little bit more about Chrissy is coming, she's trying to get Joe, as opposed to, hey, instead of trying to save Camilla more, could he have presented the case as more as Chrissy is going, she's going after Joe,

because I really was surprised they didn't even try to split the votes here, where if Chrissy is going, she's going after Joe, because I really was surprised they didn't even try to split the votes here, where if Chrissy hypothetically had an idol at this tribal council, that she ultimately would have flipped the entire vote with nine to one, that I just feel like that if she was talking about we have to get out Joe, she's the leader of the resistance against the Strong Guides Alliance, the strong five or six,

then she's more of a threat than Camilla, who's not even, she's with us, she's not even working against us. Right, right. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, it's, yeah. Why, did she vote for Joe? Who did she vote for? She voted Okay, okay. Um, yeah,

very, very dangerous and interesting. I mean, it's interesting that we saw so little from the people who felt left out of that vote, you know, like what they are thinking, like, where was Mitch here? Where was I mean, Mitch is really interesting. Because like, I mean, obviously, they can't give us the Mitch confessional because then it's sort of as a giveaway of who's going home because you know, that's The interesting thing from Mitch's perspective is why did he vote for Chrissy and we probably get a confessional from him next week

Like oh, I hate it to lose Chrissy, you know, but I had to go with the group I am really curious about that conversation and like how he came to that, you know Yeah, I'd love to go back to something that Sam Phelan said last week with you that I hadn't even been thinking of I thought he had such a good point about that He felt like that that Chrissy really made a mistake by not trying to get with say and Mitch and maybe even star to Blindside Joe and Eva at the last Tribal Council where it does really feel like that that is a completely game at the last Tribal Council, where it does really feel like that

that is a completely game tilting move. And the kind of thing that you, when the producers do the split Tribal Council, I have to feel like that that's the kind of thing that they're hoping happens of, here's a big move that happens because of the breakdown of this group into a certain way that would not have happened

had the big group stayed together. And it seemed like you had those pieces together, but people just, I don't know if it was necessarily like, hey, I just wanna make the jury. I just wanna get through this vote. And so let me just not rock the boat too much. But I feel like a move was there. Yeah, and I said that, I mean, I said that like,

I think people play more conservatively before, until the jury starts. So like, it's probably worth starting the jury on episode or two, or that, I mean, I said that like, I think people play more conservatively before until the jury starts. So like, it's probably worth starting the jury, an episode or two or there. But like, we talked way back in the day. I mean, I don't know, it was like a year or two ago, but about like, what whether, you know, that these split, the split votes or the split groups, you know, end up basically being somewhat conservative decisions that reinforce the existing power structure.

And is that still the case? Because at one point that was sort of surprisingly the case in the early 40s. I think that what's interesting is that they used to do it at 10. And I didn't like that because I felt like, well, hey, we're losing a final nine vote. You know, 10 is big and nine is really big in a survivor game. And when we do the split vote at 10, then we end up losing our final nine vote, which is always a big moment in the season. But everybody there had already made the jury. So we ended up seeing in the early 40s

some bigger moves being made where Ricard and Shan and Erica targeting a seer. Evie was kind of down and out at that point in time, but then, you know, people were like taking bigger shots. James Jones goes out at that point, but then starting, I think, in 44, 45, like, we push it back, which I liked, but now we're just getting into sort of like,

hey, well, we get through this vote, we'll be in the real merge, we'll be on the jury. And so I think that people are a little less likely to do something more aggressive. Yeah, you really do, people do really like tighten up right before that jury spot, and not in a not surprising way, you know, because they really don't wanna screw it up. Yeah, and I feel like that in the new era,

at this particular point in the new era, I used to complain more about, you gotta have something to complain about, Steven. I used to complain more about the pre-merge, and I kinda feel like that the pre-merge is full-tilt boogie. The pre-merge is club condtilt boogie. The pre-merge is club condo. The late game is still exciting. The early merge is the new soft underbelly of the season

where nothing that exciting happens. Yeah, it's really true. And it's too bad, because the merge episode was always like, whoa, so much chaos is happening, so much action. But now it's like, for all the 40s, early 40s, half the people are immune. Now it's like you're not even actually merged

and only half you got to feast and the jury is in two votes. So there's like, it becomes a much different, more conservative, less full tilt boogie game. Yeah, and it's such a simple fix. I feel like that you go from these three tribes where you have maybe two votes, maybe three votes in two tribes,

and just do the merge at 11. And hey, you've made the merge, you're on the jury, now let's go. And now everybody can play hard and you don't have to sort of like pussy foot through, like, oh, I'm so close, I don't wanna just screw it up right here. And then I didn't make the merge,

I didn't get my buff, I didn't make the jury. People are too tight at this point. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I mean, again, nobody wants to like... I mean, the fact that Shaheen got out... I mean, again, I do think maybe if it wasn't David specifically last episode who was there, maybe they do vote out Shaheen and but David is so much like the strong five guy and this is my like he's thinking the gong gesture. So that that like people are you know you don't want to like piss him off totally you know that like by like voting out by voting out Shaheen there you're like getting you're

really alienating David which is then gonna have rap repercussions with Joe and Eva. So, but yeah, and less, maybe without David there, they do take that shot. Steven, on Friday, I will be taking calls from the patrons once again. It's our weekly survivor Q&A, where I take live calls from the patrons

that every Friday at 3 p.m., I'm sure we'll have lots of questions about what's coming up next. But Stephen, what do you think is gonna be coming up after this now that we have our final nine, we have really, this episode last season, this was the Sol vote, and that was really, the Saul vote really launched the second half of Survivor 47, and while this was not like a mad scramble

necessarily like that vote was, that it does feel like, I think the name of the episode is like, there will be a rift, that it feels like that there is this fault line in the season now, which is gonna set up the whole end game. Yeah, it does seem like this, you know, David being so fixated on this question of like, what's really going on with Kyle and Camilla is kind of going to be like where the drama is, right? Of like David versus like Kyle and Camilla. Yeah. So how do you think it shapes out?

I don't think it ends well for David, to be honest with you. Like my guess is that the, you know, I mean, I do think with like, I think Joe and Eva are going to do really well here because again, like they're playing the middle. I don't think anyone is like going for them. I think the, you know, if the fault is between David and Kyle and Camilla, then that's great for, for Joe and Eva, you know, especially Joe, because like, again, like nobody's focusing on them and Eva, especially Joe, because again, nobody's focusing on them. It's this physically extremely competitive, super strong duo, lots of advantages now.

Eva's got an idol now. Presumably next week, she's going to have some secret advantage, which I'm really looking forward to. And it becomes this strong guy versus these strategic players. You've got Mitch and Star who are kind of like at the margins of that. But I do think that like Joe and Eva are going to be able to navigate the middle

and kind of like make their way to the end. Yeah, this is a very interestingly structured season here at the final nine. And we could really start to see it starting to like have this very fun finish where you have these three pairs, and Jeff talked about this being a season of partnerships of Joe and Eva, David and Mary, and Kyle and Camilla. So basically you have these, is this voting blocks?

No, I don't think, I think this is alliances. Okay, all right, so you have these three pairs, and then you have Shaheen, who is mostly with Joe and Eva But it's probably the player most capable of flipping between any of these other pairs and then you have kind of like these two outliers in Mitch and star and as we saw like Demonstrably just left out of things. They're just basically pawns on the chessboard right now for anybody to pick up.

So how do these groupings come together on the next vote? Yeah, and it so much depends on like, do they wanna write it out for one more vote or not? And, you know, I mean, Kyle was talking about it's 10, we need to make a move soon, or like, you know, and everyone is sort of aware, like strategic players need to make a move soon, right? Like that was kind of the narrative.

I think even David said that, right? Who says like, you know, these people like Camilla, like they know that this vote, next vote, these are the times to make a move. I don't really necessarily agree with that. I still feel like the later you can make the move, the better, you know, wait till seven, wait till six in this day and age, like take a breath,

you know, write it out a few more votes. You're very excited. You're excited to make a move. That doesn't mean you should make a move. Yeah. Now we saw tonight also that Eva won individual immunity after the challenge and then she got an advantage. And it was an interesting advantage that,

something that I don't recall seeing too much in the new era where in tomorrow night, and like in the next episode? I know, I was surprised by that too. She is gonna have the opportunity, I don't know if it's like post-tribal or if it's like the day after the tribal council, she is going to have the opportunity to go get an advantage.

Eva and Joe, in the center of everything, with a hidden immunity and another advantage, could they become unstoppable? There sort of are. I mean, and like the other thing too is that they, they are very, you know, they're presumably both going to take the other one to the final four or to the final three, you know,

because like it's not one of those relationships where it's like it's this relationship where they've both, you know, they're presumably neither of them is ever going to betray the other one. So I mean, you really are so incentivized to vote one of them out because simply because like that's two spots like each one Of them represents two spots in the final three that you just do not have access to yeah Did you like that they had the hidden immunity idle clue at the reward? I love that. I miss that well let me just for the winners

Like I just like it's a little me just- Oh, for the winners? Oh, that's interesting. For the winners, like I just feel like, is it a little OP that the person who won in the immunity challenge also, like had to get to the top four of the immunity challenge, gets to go on a reward, so these four are also like powered up, and then on top of that, we're gonna hide a clue to an advantage also

for the people who are already just like, you know, coasting. I don't know what to say. This is the strong season, Rob. This is about the strong five and the strong players. Is that what this is? Am I being like, is David gonna come give me a wedgie for saying this type of thing? I just like, is it too much for the people who are like,

are we over rewarding the people who are good at the challenges even more? Last season was about the strategists. It was about Rachel, you know, and being a super fan. Get out of here, nerd. Yeah. And I know there's a long history of hiding the immunity clues or the idle clues like we're watching Heroes versus Villains over on the patron feed and we just saw poverty

pick up a napkin and that got a clue to the idol after the heroes of that was like that was I think that especially the challenges where they're like ordered where they walk in an order and like the napkin is like placed like that I don't love that stuff I don't think that they do that deliberately but it has like the the the odor of of deliberateness which I don't love. Yeah, well I don't think that they had like place settings, did they? I don't know. Yeah, I got the sense that they were sort of just a...

You saw yesterday, I saw it 15 years ago. I think that things just sat down wherever they wanted and they didn't necessarily have to have a signed seating at the end. Like if they had a signed seating and there was somebody who had an advantage in their particular napkin, that would be... They didn't file in, they don't walk in?

I think they walk in. Parvati in that episode said, I wanted to sit in the corner so I could talk to Danielle. And that's why she ultimately got up from- Oh wow, so really, that's fun, that's fun. Yeah, but I don't know, it was only four people had access to it. It was also that, you know,

the people that had like dominated in the challenge. Like the people that lost the challenge or losing votes, the people who win the challenge, not only are getting immunity and food and clues to the idol or advantage. Yes, win, win. If you, you know, stop complaining and win the challenge, Rob.

Okay, well, I'm glad, this is a great segue into, I thought it was a very interesting moment and we got this from Joe's perspective of everybody has to pick their partners and Joe was sort of sitting back. Yeah, I'm glad to talk about this. And it was interesting because Joe got to sit back and he also got his pick.

It was like, nobody was like, well, dibs on Eva. Why did nobody pick Mitch? That's the great question of this episode. Mitch is like star challenge performer. I mean, he ends up with star. And he was star's partner. Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, ends up being the first one

through the first part of that obstacle. To be fair, like they sort of choke at the second part of that obstacle, but like, how does no one pick Mitch in this case? And I do think like, it's so interesting because it is these strategic relationships, these social relationships that end up manifesting in every aspect of the game.

Like if you're purely picking like on who I want to perform the challenge with, like, I kind of want to perform with Mitch. But because he doesn't have as tight social bonds as some of these others, Shaheen picks, explicitly, Camilla because he wants to build his alliance with Camilla. And I do think that it's so funny how it just refracts

into every part of the game in ways that seem like you should avoid, but you can't avoid it because it's just human nature. But that decision to pick Camilla with the number one pick, I think just sat so wrong with David and Mary's. Why would he do that? He must have a secret alliance with her. Why would he want to go into this challenge with Camilla?

It doesn't make any sense. He must have an alliance. So we're Shaheen, and we saw him do this with, certainly say last week about like, hey, nobody's talking to her. Like I should be the, this is exactly the kind of person. So he's out there looking, and you know, I love that. I was gonna say, this is the Rob Sesternino strategy.

You know, I'm picking up the people who are at the bottom and building my army. And so Shaheen is definitely thinking that way, but maybe he might've been a little too forward with that to go out and pick Camilla as his number one pick, as opposed to, you know, Mitch is somebody who's also like equally on the bottom, who is somebody who's, you know,

been a little bit more of a challenge performer. But, you know, we saw Shaheen ultimately picks Camilla. Well, Dave was like, well, I'll take Mary. I'll take my person. Right, and then they all are, and then Joe Neaver together, and literally, we don't even see Mitch and Star get randomly assigned together. Yeah, it took me like two minutes for me to be like,

wait, wait, wait, who's Mitch's partner? I was like, oh yeah, Star is still here. Yeah, she's so great, we get so little of her, but it's so great when we do get her. She is electric every time the camera finds her, but either she's left out, they don't tell her what's going on, she doesn't have a vote tonight.

What'd you think of the mechanism they used to determine? Last season we had sort of like the reverse Jenga game where Caroline lost her vote. What'd you think about this? I did not like the Jenga. This was a lot better, I felt, than the Jenga game. Yeah, I think so too, because it was like, in the Jenga game, it was like somebody is gonna lose

and they're gonna lose their vote. This was strategic. Right, there was choice here. And you could kind of, you couldn't 100% game it so that you could immediately eliminate your chosen person, but you could manipulate it a little bit. So I really did like that. And it looked like, you know, together, Camilla and Mitch did manipulate it so

that star kind of was more, more likely to get the red balls. I'm also surprised that Shaheen didn't come back and be like, Hey, like Camilla really was trying to screw over star on this challenge. Like, yeah, but Camilla's his, he thinks Camilla's his person. He thinks he's got in a lot with Camilla, and is probably delighted that neither of them lost their vote. Yeah, so, but if he would have been trying to tell the story

of what happened, it might have ultimately ended up saving Camilla a little bit more. Yeah, really. Okay, Stephen, it's time that we need to figure something out. Of course, there are so many awards given out every single week in the survivor universe. Really, are there now?

I mean, what are all the awards? There kind of is. All these like imitators, who are they? There is no award more coveted than the fishy Should we get a fishy song? I would love that! Oh my gosh! That's all I want is a fishy song Many moons ago, a great and wise wizard named Stephen Fishback Created an award that would serve as a symbol of survivor greatness

And it was known as the fishy that would serve as a symbol of survivor greatness. And it was known as... The Fishing. In symptoms of love, the fishy! The fishy! accept that like that's that's the thing you can do that I will go to a shorter version but thank you again to eric barger who put that all together for the coveted fishy award established 2009 this is got to proceed basically every maybe not player of the week but like what what award like all these imitators i mean chissy was like deliberately you know imitative but like yeah and that's points that's a whole different system. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, all right, Stephen. More rational than arbitrary. Speaking of arbitrary and objective. Actually less rational, but let's not even explore that,

Stephen. Okay, okay. Okay, who do you give it to this week? I think this is a little tricky one. This really gets into the nature of what the fishy is about, you know, I think, and which is a fascinating conversation for many fishy scholars of like what truly is it about. I you know, I think the side, and which is fascinating conversation for many fishy scholars

of like, what truly is it about? I think that's gonna be the question, because like, on the one hand, like we've said in the past, like, is it the player, and Omer's point was like, the player who got his way, right? And you'd have to say like Kyle was the player who got his way, you know? His ally, Camilla, was targeted to be eliminated.

He pushed back, and, but and ultimately his he saved his ally, like, you know, that's a pretty like clear one to one. I mean, my concern there is I thought he pushed back really aggressively, not aggressively, but like, you know, like, certainly he wasn't as aggressive as like, I don't David was, but like, you know, he pushed back like vigorously. Um, and you know, in a way that did kind of further out his relationship with Camilla. So it wasn't like to your point, he didn't like finesse it with this like,

oh my gosh, like, you know, Chrissy's going so hard, and even Joe was like, why didn't you lead with that? You know, you're like, where was this in like the conversation? Then, I mean, you do have someone like David, who I don't think is the right choice, but I think there's something to be said for David, where you, you know, he brings Mary into the strong six now. So he got, he has his person and it's sort of like through force of will mandated that she is

now part of the group, even though, you know, she doesn't technically meet all the criteria. He correctly intuits that Camilla is a good person to eliminate for quite a few reasons here. And he really like pushes hard on that. And you know, you could even say it's a virtue that David ultimately gives in. Because we've often said like, you know, you don't want to push too hard when your allies are pushing back and David doesn't get his way. And like, maybe that's what he deserves credit for. There's also something about Mary, where she suddenly out of left field here

is the sixth in the strong five, the last Vula standing. She is a huge voice. Sixth in the strong five is a great Twitter bio. She's like a very powerful voice here ends up like, you know, kind of like figuring out who is coming for her spot and you know pushing for that person to get eliminated and almost successfully again, like not successfully so maybe that that is sort of a uh, a black mark on her Fischi Award nomination.

But, and then I think, Eva, great episode for Eva, wins immunity, is very sly about the award, about the advantage clue and the challenge. She's still gonna tell Joe though, right? I think she's gotta tell Joe once she gets it. But she pockets it, nobody knows. She like sneaks to tell Joe once she gets it. Yeah, but she pockets it, you know, nobody knows, you know, she like sneaks off to the beach in a very convincing way, claiming stomach sickness after the taco Fiesta, taco overload,

taco overload. Um, and then I think there's even something I mean, well, maybe the most something to be said for Joe here, who we see the least of, but Joe is the one who kind of like sets up the question in the least of, but Joe is the one who kind of like sets up the question in the challenge of who's going to be, you know, who's picking who and sort of like pushes people to like make their cases as a way kind of for him to gauge where the alliances are. Then when it comes down to the vote itself, he's the one in the middle. He's the one who David's coming to to push for Camilla

He's the one who Kyle's coming to to push for Chrissy and to push to save Camilla and you know to your point earlier He's probably the one who actually does end up making the call for Chrissy over Camilla Where's your head out with all that? That was a lot. That was a lot. I think also You know throw Camilla into the conversation That was a lot. I think also, you know, I would throw Camilla into the conversation also as somebody who like handles this news about it's going to be you, doesn't fly off the handle, like, you know, plays her part perfectly. Even at tribal council is like, you know, the the cooler head to Chrissy and ultimately doesn't even catch a vote at the tribal council. I do think that Joe is the person who I think would get the fishy. I just have been really impressed with the level of control, the quiet control, a Cesar Millan type level of control over all these people where everybody's coming to Joe and being like, well, I think we should do this. I think we should do this. And I think that we didn't get to see it and we'll find out one day. But I think that this nine to one vote happens

when Joe's like, all right, we're doing Chrissy tonight. That's it. Yeah, I'm with you. I think Joe is the right choice here too. I mean, he also gets out Chrissy, who is the person who's most vocally calling for him to be eliminated. So he, in a way, like actually does get his way. Like the person he most wants out is Chrissy. And so I think I think Joe absolutely wins the fishy. OK, congratulations to Joe. First fishy of the season, right?

Yeah, everything's coming up. Joe, I think here, I think he's really in really, really great spot. Some say the fishy is a broken award that awards losers for losing. But you know. Not in his case, yeah. I think that, I don't know if we've even had anybody who's been a multiple fishy award winner. I think it's been pretty spread out over the course of the season.

That's a sign of a great season, I think, is like when you see a lot of people shining. Yeah, so great job by you, Stephen Fishback. Oh, thank you. No, great job by the, Stephen Fishback. Oh, thank you. No, great job by the Survivor producers, the real winners of the Fishy. Yes. For their amazingly even-handed,

for the cast, to the casting department, to casting such a great season, to the producers. I'd like to thank all those people. Sure. Stephen, anything else on your mind? No. We really, I think that we really hit all the points that I, that I wanted to. Yeah. You want to talk about the newest Survivor 50 fan vote?

Well, I'd like to cue you up to talk about it because I don't really know. Okay, good. All right. Survivor 50, of course, as we know, is in the hands of the fans and we are voting on some new categories tonight. Are you ready? Please. Cause I mean, you're technically one of the fans now. At one point you were so much more, but now, you know, you're technically just a fan with a podcast. Yeah, I love that.

Okay, all right. So here are three new things that we're voting for, okay? And a bunch of these survivor journalists had it earlier today. Okay, all right, we have the immunity necklace, Steven. We can choose what it looks like? You can choose what it looks like.

Would you prefer a more ornate immunity necklace? Oh yeah, ornate for sure. Is that even a question? Would you have a more ornate immunity necklace? Oh yeah, ornate for sure. Is that even a question? Would you have a more beautiful ornate necklace that sparkles on television? Or do you want trash? In Pearl Islands, they had kind of like the sword and the sash, like I kind of like that.

That was kind of a cool way to do it. Oh no, no, sash was Nicaragua. That's true. All right, would you like the tribes to start with supplies or have to earn them? Start with supplies. Earn supplies thing is so dumb. I mean, people have so little. Like my god, like we want to see them play survivor. You know, we want to see them have energy. Yeah. And then finally, as far as twists go, would you like to see the right twist at the right moment? I'm sorry.

So a more straightforward game where alliances matter or twists? And the word on this- A fascinating complex game with brilliant twists that test the players. Yes, and Mike Bloom had it as the right twist at the right moment can change the game for the players in exciting ways. But some fans prefer a more straightforward game

where strategic alliances are all that matters. Which are you? I actually, whatever, like I'm assuming that like the straightforward game where strategic alliances are all that matters, which are you? I actually, whatever, like I'm assuming that like the straightforward game still has like plenty of twists in it, you know, since like the, it's like, this is like their version of like straightforward versus twists, so I think straightforward for me. Yeah.

What do you think? Yeah, I think so, I mean. I mean like twists, like, you know, tell me what we're talking about. Right. Where, I mean, for the survival of 50 people, it's like, imagine like, yeah, well, I've been waiting 20 years to come back and it's like, oh, I lost my vote, I'm gone.

All right, well, you know. Say lovey. It was a good run. All right, so there you go. All right, Stephen, let me say about some of the fun stuff that we have coming up. This week, I had a great interview with Sandra Diaz Twine, great old school interview. Stephen, I don't often do this.

Can I play a clip from my interview with Sandra? Yeah. Okay, here, check this out. Okay, this was from my interview with Sandra, and I was telling her about my trip to Boston. Check this out. After I missed the, I was in Boston for the live show this week.

And I went to Luigi's Pizza, Sandra. Was that where they caught Luigi? No. No. No. Mancione, is that what you're talking about? No. No.

No. Justin from Survivor, that's his pizza, his family's pizza place, it's Luigi. Oh, the one that was playing with Cedric, right? I like that it would rename the pizzeria after the place they caught the guy. But very fun time with Sandro, we talked about everything Survivor 48 and so much more, so go ahead and check that out. She's amazing. that out very funny Kelly Wentworth this week, so we're really on a roll with the old-school interviews

That Rob Nakiba roasted your pets this week. Yeah, I mean you're a pet lover. You wouldn't you wouldn't love love that I wouldn't roast them. Yeah over a million dollar secret. I know you checked that out right you enjoyed I'm still watching it I really like it. It's very fun. It's a little goofy, but in a really fun way. Yeah, Chappelle and Scali had an interview over on Nothing But Netflix. Don't spoil it for me. Well, I don't know what, these two people that were from the show,

I don't know what happened to them, that Sydney and Sam, they talked to them. Yeah. Okay? Both very fun contestants. And over on We Know Scripted TV, the last, are you a Last of Us person? I want to be. I just haven't had a chance to watch it yet That's like a yucky. No, I don't like yucky. It's too too yucky for me

I don't like it, but a lot of people do I'm in the minority But check out everything going on over there Mike bloom and grace leader talking about the last of us over on We know scripted TV and of course, I mentioned everything going on over on Patreon. Come on over and join the greatest reality TV community in the world, if I may say so. And I might, because I put it all together. Rob has a website.com slash patron.

Come on over over everybody is just Some of the greatest people I've ever met Rob is the same way it really it's like, you know It's really like the best part of my of having been on Survivor is getting to be a part of like the our Community. Oh, well, thank you so much Steven. And of course I get I also made a lot of money. So that was good Well, look at you. Well, I mean, you know, I was second place made a lot of money, so that was good too. Wow, look at you. Well, I mean, you know, I was second place. It's a nice paycheck.

Yeah, that's a good, I mean, I wouldn't know. And a great experience, a lot of good friends from, so I mean, there's a lot of great parts, but that's definitely one of them. It's one of the top 10. Yeah, or like top four. Oh. Yeah.

Top five, baby. Top five, baby. So yeah, check that out over there. Of course, Josh and I going back through Heroes vs. Villains every single week. Steven, you guess what's coming up on, 15 years ago on Heroes vs. Villains. I don't want to scroll anything,

but JT wrote a letter. Oh, what did he say? And he sent it to Russell. Oh, I'll bet that was nice. Was it a nice letter? It was extremely nice. He's a very sweet guy. People don't know that about him.

And he could tell Russell was going through it. And he's like, here. I bet he was there for him in a big way. He, in a huge way. Yeah. So that's gonna be coming up next week on our Heroes vs. Villains Rewatch. Steven, what's coming up for you?

I am in final edits for my novel, which is driving me slowly insane. And I'm hoping that pre-orders are available in the next month or two. And you will definitely be hearing from me about that because I will not shut up about it at the time. But if you want to hear even more, sign up on my website, stevenfishback.com.

Yeah, Steven, will you do an audio book of your novel? Well, there will be an audio book. I don't know, like, I don't think I'll be able to record it. I don't know, like, I mean, maybe I'll like put my hat in the ring. Would people want me to record? I mean, I don't know, you know. I think the people that, I don't know,

I guess that's between you and your publisher, but I think the people that love you would love to hear you read the book. That's nice, That's really nice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I feel like, you know, I don't know. They're professionals, though. They do voices, you know? You know I don't improv.

They might consider you a scab to, like, hey, like, this book has a scab narrator. Yeah. Some people, I mean, like, some people do, but, like, I feel like, you know, like it's almost like too close. Like you want to like, you know, you want to like lose yourself in the story. I don't want to be thinking like, you know, oh God, Steven, like, like can't you do better voices? Well, I'm a big audio book guy and then sometimes I'm like, that I see that I hear the person who did the audio book. I'm like, oh, that's not the person that I know. Yeah, right. And that's upsetting. That's like, that's like sort of like hard for you, as you're saying.

Yeah, it's a little bit like, sometimes it's like, okay, well I totally get why they didn't use this guy, but. Yeah. But what are you gonna do? All right, we love to hear from you in the comments. What did you think? Did we get it right today? Let us know respectfully. And of course, don't be, you know,

too stingy with your thumbs ups either. Yeah. You know? I'm getting a stingy thumbs up. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't cost you any. You get unlimited thumbs up. It doesn't even cost you anything.

Yeah, it's just a click. Just a click. Well, like some tiny amount of, you know. Sure. It takes like a calorie, but you know. Yeah. You're also like, you know, exercising. Oh, that's true.

You get really good finger joints. You could be in the strong five. You need a good grip on Survivor. This is where you start. Grip strength. You know, last week there was so much talk about grip strength, but I didn't hear anything about that.

Is it ultimately a test of who has the least sweaty hands? Should people get Botox injections into their palms before they go on Survivor? Does Botox make you less sweaty? Yeah, people do that. But wouldn't it make you really puffy? Wouldn't it hurt less? I don't know how it works.

I'm not a physician, but I feel like people will get Botox injections in certain places to prevent over-sweating. Oh, interesting, yeah. I think I would do good. I really, I don't get very sweaty hands. Hmm. I'd give a good grip strength. Mid grip strength, but I think very dry hands. Yeah, you gotta work on that before season 60.

Okay. All right. Well, I know what I'll be doing. Thank you so much for joining us. In the hands of Rob Sestamito. The not so sweaty hands of Rob. Take care everybody, have a good one. Bye.