RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 48 Episode 3

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

This week, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 48 episode 3!

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Well, actually they didn't really win the game at all Survival no way at all Survival know it all Survival know it all Steven and Rob went out and down Got the game all figured out They know it all Yeah, that's right Your favorite two podcast chats are back tonight to talk about what a wild episode of

survivor Wow, and sometimes you get pizza takeout and sometimes the pizza man gets taken out in Very unprecedented fashion Steven fishback, how are you? Yeah, what an intense like 10 minutes of television. I did not see that coming. I was like, okay, what? I did not see that coming. That's something pretty strange. I was like, oh, maybe there'll be like, you know,

one vote for Justin there, you know, wouldn't that be kooky? And then it's like a vote and a revote and then a new revote and the whole thing. Like the mechanics of Survivor are being like, this is a never before happened situation where Cedric, you have to have a conversation with yourself.

It's intense, right? Where it's like, I mean, we have been doing this podcast for what? This is year 13 of doing this podcast. And I'm like, wait, what's happening now? Can you break it down, Rob? Like what just happened? Yeah, let's do that.

Okay, that's coming up. We will do that. It's very fun to talk about. It was a slow motion car crash which ultimately results in Justin, my winner pick, being out of the game. Let's talk about did he just get totally hosed? Was there anything he could have done? I'm really excited.

He self-posed a bit. Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to breaking it all down. Let me tell you about what's coming up. Of course, an exit interview with Justin coming up on Thursday, be on the lookout for that. Then, big week on the podcast. I get to talk to my great friend, Asia Welch, this week. And my great friend, Abby Maria.

Yes, okay. So Asia is coming tomorrow. I'm gonna talk to Abby Maria on Tuesday. So in the meantime, plenty more for you over at we know survivor.com where you can hear tons of coverage about this very exciting night. All right, Stephen. What do you talk to Abby about when you're on the podcast?

Oh, I love talking to an Abby Maria. Because I feel like- An Abby Maria, but what about the Abby Maria? The Abby Maria? I feel like that she's a dream podcast guest of just like- I believe that. Just, I feel like I have to ask just a couple of questions and she's gonna do the rest.

She goes, yeah, she goes. Some of these people, I really gotta pry it out of them. She's incredible. Are you talking about me? No, not talking about you. Okay, Stephen, let's talk about this tribal council, which really I felt like was headed into the direction of, I thought we might see a one, one, one vote.

I thought that Cedric was gonna vote for Mary. I thought Mary was gonna put her vote on Justin and that Mary was gonna vote for Say. Like I thought that we had this weird sort of like, okay, all these people voted and I thought we were maybe gonna have a tie vote there. But everything changes once Justin loses his vote and then Mary hits the shot in the dark.

The second time ever, right, that it saved someone in danger. Yes, third time ever that it's come in. Third time come up, but second time ever that it's actually mattered, the first one being Caleb, when he had what it was like 13-0 at the merge, right, for that tribal council.

Yes. So, yeah, we don't need to get at the merge, right, for that tribal council. Yes. So, yeah, we don't need to get the exact numbers, but whatever. Yeah, 12-12. A lot of people who are shouting about what the number was, I apologize. It was a lot. 13 was more of like a metonymy.

So Mary ends up, and I'd love to talk more about Mary, but the story right now is Justin and ultimately how this plays out. And so then there ends up being only two people voting. And this was shades of that tribal council, another green tribe, I believe, back in Survivor 42, when it was Daniel Strunk and High in that other big standoff where only two people had voted,

where Mike Turner- Daniel Strunk also a Yale alum, Yale Law alum. Now he didn't go home, but he did like, ends up destroying his game. They say history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. And I kind of felt that a little bit here. You think there's some sort of Yale curse? Well, I don't think it's a curse.

It's just, sometimes these overly cerebral players, they play themselves out of the game a little bit. Yeah, all right. So we end up with Jess Cedric and Say, they ultimately vote for Mary and then Mary's- Which that itself was a surprise because Say the whole time is like, I know that either Mary has something

or she's gonna play her shot in the dark. I don't wanna go home because of that. That's basically, that's exactly what happens. She was right. Well, can I just say one thing? And Say did incredible things at this tribal council, but I feel like that Say had a little bit of stolen valor at the tribal council in that she really claimed

to take a lot of ownership of like, see, I knew, I knew it, I knew. Like Say, your thing was that she actually had an idol. Like that. But she knew something was gonna go wrong. She was like, and it was her on the line. I knew something was going to go wrong. That's the thing that like she wasn't like, I've got a bad feeling about it. I was saying like, she was like, we got to split the votes. It's me, my name coming up.

If something happens, like I don't want it to be me. You know, I thought that was legit. Like give her some some leeway here. You know, if she had put her vote. I'm gonna give her credit later, but no, I'm not, not for this because she thought that Mary actually had the idol. That was what she, that was what she was telling Cedric. Cedric's like, I don't think she has anything. She's got shot in the dark. Yeah. Well, she didn't say,

I know she's gonna hit the shot in the dark. Yeah, but she knew, she knew the vibes were off. Yeah. All right. Anyway, so. A little air sign. Okay. Air sign move, okay. But for then, we get to Justin. And Justin has no vote,

he is just a innocent bystander at this tribal council. And now there are no votes. And now Cedric and Sey have to go revote. And I'm like, sad story for Justin that Cedric and Sey are gonna go vote for Justin. But it seemed like here they didn't even know yet that Justin was not the one who voted. Like here, so the votes were for Sey and for Justin.

So, but like at this point it seems like Sey is still not sure who voted for her, whether it was Cedric or Justin, right? Yeah, it seems like that that becomes clear after we have that tie break. Now, I thought this was wild that Cedric went in there and voted for Justin. And then, I guess, I'm sorry, voted for say in that spot, and then ultimately flipped his vote. I don't know. And I really was thinking like, oh, hey, Cedric, you're gonna be drawing rocks

in a second here, my guy. But it seems like that part of like, okay, these people are safe because of the tiebreaker didn't end up happening really at all, only if Cedric couldn't make a decision. Right, well, he had to like draw rocks with himself. Because in the scenario with Daniel Strunk and High, that there was a tie between, was it what,

Chanel and Jenny, and then ultimately, that they needed to- Lydia, Lydia, right? Was Lydia on the block here? Okay, yeah, that's- Yeah, Lydia, because Chanel didn't have a vote, and Mike didn't have a vote, and I think it was like Lydia and Jenny. You're right, you. Yeah, Lydia, because Chanel didn't have a vote and Mike didn't have a vote. And I think it was like Lydia and Jenny.

You're right, yeah, Lydia and Jenny. And then one of them had to flip their vote or they were going to have to go to Rox. And Hai was saying, I'll go to Rox for my person. Daniel was like, I'm not going to Rox. He was like, I'm not gonna go to Rox. And then ultimately ends up having to flip his vote. This is that Yale style of negotiation.

Dan's drunk, says, I'm not going to rocks. Justin's like, whatever, do what you want. I'm not gonna argue on behalf of myself. This is noblesse oblige. But you know. Is that Latin? I don't know, yeah, I don't even really know. I don't think that's relevant here.

Okay, all right. I think that's actually totally, just came to mind and it was the wrong phrase. So my mind was blown that we had Cedric and Say voting differently. And then I thought that Say does a really masterful job of where it seems like that Cedric is pretty locked in of, Hey, I gave Justin my word. And she brings up the fact, did you know that Justin did not have his vote? And she brings up the fact, did you know that Justin did not have his vote?

Yeah, which he didn't. And she, she was like, I mean, because Cedric was gonna send her home, like unquestionably, he voted for her both times on the revotes. He was saying like, I'm sorry, sorry about this. Justin was my number one first ally on the beach, first conversation.

Surely you as a gamer understand that. And she like does not back down. She's like, how could you? I'm so hurt by this. Like he, this guy is lying to you. You didn't know about this. How could you be with someone who has been lying to you? I've been totally honest with you.

And then he turns to Justin, it's like, well, Justin, what's your case? And he's like, you do what you have to do. Like he made it easy for Cedric to vote him out. Like he like- He gave him an off ramp. Yeah, he definitely did. Yeah, but like, and of course in that like

emotionally volatile situation, you know, even if Cedric prefers Justin, and I think Justin must've thought like, he's gonna stick with me. I don't wanna like put the screws in him. Like he's already voted for me, you know, voted against say twice. I don't need to like twist the knife here. And he's gonna stick with me. So I don't need me, you know, voted against say twice. I don't need to like twist the knife here.

Um, and he's going to stick with me. So I don't need to, you know, like, let's just like, let it happen and not do any kind of emotional manipulation. Yeah. The wrong mo the wrong choice, like unequivocally. And he could have at least like argued, no, like this is why I lied to you. I believe it. Like I, I got you, you know, like there was the situation I couldn't, you know, it was last minute, I didn't want to like throw things into, you know, into a mess

and I was going to tell you about this and I'm so sorry, let it happen again, at least like, argue back. I'm thinking the same thing. I'll only give Justin a grain of salt here, oh, that when we hear from him tomorrow, like how, maybe was this like an hour of debate that went back and forth and then he said this at one point, did he have other arguments

that got cut out of the episode perhaps? That's the only thing I could think of, because otherwise it seems like this was a total just lay down and die for saying. I mean, that's definitely like an interview question. That's not canonical for the show. Whatever they say, like, I don't know, it doesn't matter to me.

Like whatever actually happened, who knows? But like, no, but that's a very good question. Like, what did you, I mean, I'm sure that's what you'll be asking him. Yeah. Because it seems like that this was total surrender move from Justin. But also you have to give Chris a credit. It wasn't Justin not doing anything. It was Say really like. It was both things. Yeah. But Say does an incredible job and gets Cedric and you have this moment. This was such a great survivor story, and I'm almost disappointed

that we're gonna get the swap next week because I need to see Mary and Say on the same tribe. Hopefully they get swapped together where Cedric's like, okay, if I keep you, we gotta fix this. We gotta fix this. Is this like a Jay Adam thing? The know, their rivals are working against each other, but they also sort of respect each other and bro down.

Yeah, this is great. I'm ready for, put Say and Mary on the amazing race, you cowards. I would watch that. Who cares about big brother? I'd probably not, because it's the amazing race, but I would like, you know, support that. You'd watch it.

Yeah, what a great, what a fun, what a truly like, what a such a fun dynamic and like so great that they both like are like, you know, giving respect to each other. Cause these kind of relationships can turn acrimonious very fast. I mean, what a great moment too, when Mary, the first time Mary was off swimming

and says initial instinct before she even goes, you know, second tier and thinks, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Does she have the idol? She says, it looks like she needs some space. And like, you know, compared to, I've seen some, say, Rome comparisons online and that was what Rome did not do, right?

Like Rome did not give Saul the space he needed when Saul was on the outs, when Saul was on the bottom. And here is, say, like giving that grace to Mary before then she sort of like kicks it into overdrive and is like, what does this mean? But it was just like so fun. This was so fun where that Mary, I think liked being chased by Say and Say liked chasing her.

It was like, I kind of like this. This is fun. Yeah. This is fun. It's like a game of tag. Yeah. Let these toxic people be friends, come on. They weren't even being toxic.

They were just being like fun and supportive. Toxic is probably the wrong word. Yeah. But that these fiery personalities, that they're attracted to each other. Yeah, it was great. Air science, probably. I don't know what Mary is.

We don't know. We don't know. But Steven, do you think could this duo come together ultimately? Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't that be a story? I mean, Jeff said the theme of the season is duo. Partnerships, yeah. Partnerships. I mean, Jeff said the theme of the season is duos. Partnerships, yeah. Partnerships.

I mean, this is, you know, we've got the Camilla and Kyle and you know, this one. There's a bunch, but. Well, I know, but like, you know, the top one, I feel like the top duo we said was the Camilla and Kyle duo, but this is up there as a top duo. Yeah, so Mary, I thought. And Thomas Bianca too.

Had such an interesting trajectory throughout this episode. Where it seemed that she was, I really thought the episode was going to end up going in the direction where that her bluffing that she had the idol was going to be what saved her. Yeah, me too. I thought like Justin was gonna get a vote

and then something was gonna happen. And that was gonna, like Mary was gonna vote for Justin and Say was gonna vote for Justin and Justin was gonna go out because of that. Yeah. So tell me, let's talk about Justin a little bit. So he makes this choice not, well first of all let's talk about Yahtzee a little bit. How did you feel about the Yahtzee of it all? I have to say when it started I was like, I don't know about this, but I thought it moved pretty quick and I thought that. I just don't like that there was no agency.

Like there was no, nothing the players could do. There was no choices they were making. Yeah, this was a tough spot for Justin, because when I said that, what I liked about the journey in the last game is I could opt in if I want to play on the journey by putting out five fingers. I don't have to necessarily go. But here, this is, all right, where,

and we've seen this plenty of times in the new era, where, okay, pick a person who's going to get to go. And they lost the challenge, the decision is out of his hands, it's completely determined by fate and luck. And really, Justin, other than roll the dice better, there's nothing he could have done with, to prevent losing his vote. Yeah. That's why I don't love the dice better, there's nothing he could have done with to prevent losing his vote. Yeah.

But that's why I don't love the dice game specifically because there's no choice. It's not, you could say you screwed up. You know, like maybe he made himself a viable pick somehow, you know, to the Loggy, but. Yeah. So I would say that the one thing that he could have done, and I don't even think that this ultimately saves him

I think this might have just been you know his destiny to go out in this spot And we could talk about it should he have kept Kevin in the game from last week. That's potentially something but yeah When we saw this with Thomas and Bianca and I want to float a new survivor theory at you Oh, okay, you know, I love a new survivor theory at you. Okay? You know I love a good survivor theory. When you have good news, like Thomas did last week, keep it a secret.

If you have bad news, share it with your ally. But nobody believes, oh, I guess like people do believe, share with your ally, yes, they'll believe the bad news. That's interesting, I like that. Which is like what Thomas and Bianca are the two examples here of Thomas had good news, didn't even share it with his closest ally. Bianca had bad news, shared it with Thomas,

like hey, I need help, I lost my vote. Justin and Cedric seemed like that they really did have a bond, but Justin kept it a secret from Cedric. Now, I don't know what happens in that scenario where Justin has shared with Cedric that he doesn't have his vote, everything plays out in the same scenario.

Does Cedric still flip his vote there to take out Justin? That's where I think, that's what gave say Purchase. Right? Like she was obviously going for the emotional appeal here, but what gave her appeal bite was the fact that there was something mechanical that Justin had done, right? Like if it was just like, oh, like we're friends.

Like what about me? You know, there's no real there there, but she can say he lied to you. He did this thing. It's like in clock tower. It's like, you know, in clock tower, it's all social reads, but if there's something mechanical there, you know, someone like, oh, but you said the Sheffield show

was one and here it's a two. You know, then you're like, now I'm really suspicious of you. So I think the fact that he did have this mechanical, there was this like thing that he did. I think that is what ultimately doomed him because otherwise it's just like, you know, it's just words. Yeah. And Justin has no way of knowing that ultimately it's going otherwise it's just like, you know, it's just words. Yeah, and Justin has no way of knowing

that ultimately it's going to come down to this, you know, Mary is gonna hit the shot in the dark, but I think that telling Cedric, I think that the night had more possibilities to go his way when he tells his, if him and Cedric were as close as he has presented or as it seemed in the episode, I think he needs to tell Cedric were as close as he has presented or as it seemed in the episode, I think he needs to tell Cedric he lost his vote.

And it's like, Cedric, help me figure this out. What do we do? So not to like, you know, jump the gun here, but would you say that, so did Camilla and Mitch, you know, based on your new theory of you, keep good news to yourself, you share bad news. You know, what is the, are you saying that for the Seva tribe, you know,

them all sharing their advantages, is that gonna hurt Camilla and Mitch? I think that's a fair question. And I was thinking about this earlier when I first had this shower thought, but I would say it's the, I'm trying to think of the, every tribe has its own sort of like rules in like its own sort of rules

in its own sort of trajectory. And when Mitch came back and shared in that group of like, hey, I got the advantage, here's what I did. I think that Camilla has to follow suit because that's what's already been established as the norm in that tribe. But I think that probably just as a general rule, I kind of like what Thomas said where,

hey, if I can keep this good news, this advantage to myself, I should do it. If I can like share my bad news with my trusted allies, I think that that is how you should do it because they can help you navigate that bad situation and maybe you could build trust with somebody who's trying to protect you. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

That makes sense. So yeah, I mean, I definitely think it was, I mean, well, it was certainly, we know now that it was a huge mistake for Justin, but his thinking was, I don't wanna frazzle Cedric, Cedric, and there's so little time. You get back and he probably had like 20 minutes to, you don't wanna like come in,

throw everything into disarray and then everyone goes to travel council. I have no clue what's going on. Yeah, look, you know, to, to, you know, you don't want to like come in, throw everything into disarray and then everyone goes to travel council. You have no clue what's going on. Yeah. Look, he, that was the risk, but you know, Cedric didn't seem frazzled when he said, Hey Justin, the next time I see you, it will be at Luigi's. You're fired.

Yeah. He's a surgeon. I mean, you know, this guy, this guy is like used to being in pressure cooker situations. Well, I thought that that was such an interesting spot for Cedric to be in, where it's like, okay, one of these patients, you save one. You're in this spot, Cedric.

Sophie's choice. It was, and it was a really great moment at this tribal council where I liked that Cedric just had to make the call right there. He didn't go, I'll go get the vote. I thought this was really an amazing tribal council. Do you think that Justin like, why when he's like, Cedric said, I'll make my choice on one condition.

You two figure it out. Like shouldn't Justin at this point be like, wait, hold up, I got more to say, I got more to say here. Cedric, they're never gonna get along. They can't get along. Yeah, he's just sitting there. Like this is his moment to like plead his case. There must have been more.

That Justin just does not seem like somebody that he's just gave up. And that's kind of how it got presented at the tribal council. But I didn't think he had started to get, I think he thought it was gonna go his way. Initially thought it was gonna go his way. He didn't wanna like, you know,

emotionally manipulate Cedric. And then when it was not going his way, he was like, you know, maybe had some dignity about him. Like I was like, I'm well, this is how it is. You know, that's kind of a. Maybe he's too proud. Yeah. Well, not proud. I don't know. Just, I don't know.

Let's go, just go back to Justin's earlier decisions in the game because he really was in like a bad spot here. There wasn't a ton that he could have controlled other than tell Cedric that he lost his vote. Go back to the Kevin vote from last week. Which Justin really led. I mean, he was the one who once they came to him, Justin was the one who flipped the fastest, right?

Instead of saying, yeah, like, oh yeah, Kevin's devious. He said, okay, let's get Kevin, let's get him now. Yeah, so is there enough there to say that, okay, in hindsight, that was the wrong decision? I mean, that's such a tricky one, right? Because of course, if he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have gone home. But I mean, it was such an,

like this was an insanely unusual tribal council. Like you're making a bet that someone's shot, you're gonna lose your vote and there's gonna be a shot in the dark that hits, you know, and like, I mean- Hey, it's the new era, baby. Yeah, exactly. I don't think, you know, and like- Hey, it's the new era, baby. Yeah, exactly. I don't think, you know, given that that was the exact

series of circumstances that led to Justin's out of store and basically almost no other situation would he have gone home, you know, here. I feel like you can't say you shouldn't have voted out, Kevin, last week. Yeah, it's really tough to like go back and think it through that just Justin could have seen that they would go

to tribal council again. Right, but he knew that Mary and Say were below him in the pecking order. He had two people below him in the pecking order. Which we have verifiable proof of because Mary was the target and then Say was gonna be the one who, Cedric voted for Say twice over Justin.

Yeah, and he cannot foresee that he's going to go on the challenge and lose his vote. He said, I don't even want to risk my vote that I'm in a small tribe. I need my vote. And it's probably unlikely that you would think that you go on a journey back to back episode cycles where there was just a journey in episode two. So it is almost unforeseeable that, okay, Mary hits the shot in the dark. You figure, okay, then Mary's one or then

Well, I guess maybe could he have thought that if Mary plays a shot in the dark and hits it there I guess he thought him and Cedric will vote out say in that spot, right? Exactly, even if that happened like they would have the votes to be where he would be safe Yeah, so yeah, this was a series of unfortunate events for Justin, for sure. Like, you like, blame him. And only the thing you can blame is kind of not speaking up and making more of an appeal to Cedric. And you know, your argument is that so that's on the cutting room floor somewhere. I'm saying that that's the only thing that I could possibly see. Yeah. But we'll find out tomorrow.

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can help you be your best self. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Having helped over 5 million people worldwide, it's time to prioritize your well-being. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash RHAP today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash R-H-A-P. Steven, so let's talk about where these people end up going from here. That Cedric, Mary, Sey end up now going to swap tribes next week.

First off, do you think- What's kind of fun is that they all actually have sort of good blood between them. You know, like a lot of the times you think, well, Mary is gonna be against Say now for sure, but they actually seem to kind of have a good relationship. Like you can absolutely see them working together. Well, we have some precedent in Survivor 45

where then it was Sean, Caleb, and Emily that survived the Lulu disaster, which is the last time we had a pre-merged tribe swap in the new era. And so those three were probably on pretty decent enough terms coming out of that situation. And they end up, I think, each of them is on a different tribe. Right.

But we have 15, so presumably we'll go to three tribes of five here for the next couple of episodes. And it's really gonna be interesting to see who is in the best position to rebound. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know, I mean, they're all lovely in their own ways. I think Mary. I think that Mary seems like the person who,

okay, she got off on the wrong foot. She's gonna be the person who's like so excited to be out of her tribe. Like, oh, you're not gonna believe me how bad it was. Like, I think that- And she's got the story, right? Her shot in the dark story, like that's the verifiable story of I was eliminated

except for my shot in the dark. Whereas the other two, you know, so she's gonna seem like the outcast. They tried to vote me out. I'm ready to jump ship. I had to play my shot in the dark. Whereas the other two, you know, she's gonna seem like the outcast. They tried to vote me out. I'm ready to jump ship. I had to play my shot in the dark. You know, it's, I think she's the person where you're like looking at her like,

oh please, like join our numbers. Yeah, totally. So Mary is actually set up, I think, pretty well for a tribe swap. Yeah, I'm excited. I think Mary's got longevity. I mean, I think they all could, I mean, you know, I think they all gotta have longevity in the game.

Yeah. Say I'm a little worried about coming into a new group if she doesn't have the numbers. Like I feel like that that might not be like a great spot for her coming into a group that might have a majority where I'm not sure necessarily, if she has to go on a charm offensive, like we've seen her like be able to play fast

and establish a great position. But like be able to play fast and establish a great position. But if she has to play from the bottom and sort of like be the person who's going to win over a group, I think that she could be a likely candidate to be of the swap screwed persuasion. The only counter argument I'll make to that is that I think like, say episode one like came in very hot, you know, there's a lot going on that is that I think like say episode one like came in very hot You know, there's a lot going on with say I think she's chilled out a lot and that happens like I did that in Cambodia I came in hot like you're like all these moves I'm gonna do and then like the game kind of takes its toll

It wears you down and then you sort of and like all three of these people have been to travel council three times And you know, we talk all the time about how you know There's no experience for travel council like going to travel council, that this kind of, they're battle tested, they're fire hardened. So I can see, say, being a very savvy operator moving forward. What do you think about Cedric post-swap? Yeah, I mean, he's a great guy,

seems like he's trusted. I feel like he'll get along. He seems to be able to get along with basically everybody. He seems like very empathetic. He seems trustworthy. I don't think people are gonna be like hugely threatened by him You know so I actually you know truly. I think they all could do decently You know we just don't have a ton of precedent for how these tribe swaps can go in the new era in Survivor 45 I think we had the tribe swap and it was that we had, I'm trying to remember what tribal council. So Sean quit, Sifu was going to get voted out

and Sean ended up quitting to sort of like hijack that tribal council and then Brando got voted out and Brando was sort of, he was down in the numbers. I'm trying to think of it was, he was just with one person from his original tribe and then Emily ended up wanting to go with Austin and Drew. Yeah, Emily went with like Drew and Austin, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, he was with Kendra in that group.

And then Kendra kind of got blindsided on that vote. So there's not a lot to go off of in how the tribes are looking at the tribe swap before we get to potentially Mergetory. Yeah, I mean, the only thing is that we know that Siva and Laghi see each other as rivals. So we've certainly seen that dynamic before, where the two undefeated tribes or the two dominant tribes

are worried about each other and they're not worried about little Vula here that's not gonna bother anybody. So let's forget about them and like, let's bring the Vula numbers onto our side. That's interesting. So you feel like that the Vula is set up a little bit to be Kingmakers here where it might be where Siva and Loggy are trying to get the jump on the other's numbers.

I mean, we've seen that over and over again, that exact thing. I mean, you know, certainly in Survivor 44 with the three Stooges, you know, we, we, we, I mean, and we probably would have seen that a little bit more in Survivor 45, just Caleb was like such a, such a like a dynamo. He just like stood out,

he was just like tall and handsome and charming. It was like too much. If Caleb had been like, a little bit less, that they probably would have done better. Yeah. Okay. Stephen, I really wanna talk about the situation that we have on Loggy where, okay, the episode starts and everybody's sort of down

and Joe's gonna make a big bonfire for everybody. And at this bonfire, we have a moment where Eva ends up giving a bracelet to Joe for his daughter in front of the tribe. I mean, very sweet moment, not the best strategic move. Yeah, but that's what we, right? Like you're not gonna like, she, not the best strategic move. Yeah, but that's what we even, right? Like you're not gonna like, she's not like thinking

about that. Yeah, I thought this was a rough episode for Eva. And of course we all know the adversity that Eva has in the game, but she has two pretty bad moments in this episode. The giving the gift to Joe in front of the tribe this is Survivor 101 bad. Right. Don't give gifts to Joe. Don't give gifts in front of everybody because people are like oh she didn't give me a thing. Right. But the

thing is I mean it's such nonsense like you know Thomas and Bianca know that they're their number ones. You know they're probably you know they're giving the gift of information to each other. Yeah. No greater gift on survivors. No greater gift than information. Knowledge is power for sure.

But of course, like, you know, it's so public and it becomes a thing. And then you also have to think because of its innocence almost, because of its sweetness, they're not gonna betray each other. Like even Thomas and Bianca have to think, well, at some point I'll betray. You know, there's that,

their relationship feels a little more maybe transactional, maybe not fully. I mean, we know that Thomas is withholding information from Bianca. Whereas with this Joe, Eva thing, it's like so innocent and genuine and kind, that like, oh, gotta get rid of that. Well, I think you have that compounded with,

okay, so then you could sort of write it off of like Eva is just so pure that she is giving Joe a gift in front of everybody, she just, she loves Joe. What a big heart Eva has. But then we see that, okay, but then now Eva is playing the game and Eva goes to Star and tells Star, like hey, do we need two brainiacs on the tribe? And Eva does not foresee that Star is going to go

immediately and run this back to Bianca and Thomas. And Star gets the opening that she's been waiting for where Thomas, who wanted to throw away the cipher to figure out the idol, is like no, now we have to help Star. Star won the two brainiacs. She's like, I, Star is like, yeah, I do need two brainiacs to help me get my vote back.

And now- Here's my, oh, go ahead. Yeah, okay. I think I know where you're going to go, but yes, Star ends up winning them over. They're like, yeah, we need to get out Eva. Is this actually going to play out? Is this just like, try,

here's the interesting things that are happening on Logi, or are these kind of hostilities going to end up really playing out? Okay, well, we're gonna get the tribe swap, so I think we're gonna get maybe them play out with a couple of these participants on a different tribe. I thought you were gonna ask, like, okay, if Star gets swapped to another tribe,

what's going to happen to her? Here's my prediction, Steven. Here's my, I'm gonna look at my crystal ball. Episode four is gonna open with Thomas and Bianca figuring out how to solve the beware advantage. Star is gonna get her vote back, and then we're gonna tribe swap. Makes sense.

I think that's a good prediction. I think so, because we'll see. We'll see how it goes. It would be hilarious to see somebody get the Beware advantage. It's like, I lost my vote, and the idol is on a different beach. Is there something mechanical there,

like where they're not, they can't tribe swap if they're, like, you only lose your vote while you're on this beach. Is there anything like that? I don't think so. not that I know of. Oh, wow. So it would be quite a predicament for Star. Yeah, they should add like a little, you know, like a coat, like a little proviso.

Yeah, and now it may work out where I think you lose your vote until the merge. And so Star may not even go to tribal council for the next two votes. And so maybe it's like a much ado about nothing. Yeah. I mean, could star keep the cipher and then, I hope I'm using the right cryptics.

If she keeps the thing and then ends up like talking with like a Camilla and or say, and it's like, oh, my word was enlist. My word was silent or my word. Can you please get listen from that? Can you please get listen? Could she piece it together? Like, does she have word was enlist. My word was silent. Or my word- You think she'll get listened from that? She'll get listened. Could she piece it together? Like, does she have to be on her beach?

No, right? That would be cool. That would be a very fun way for it to happen. Yeah, so, all right. We'll see what happens with Star. But big night, I thought, for Star to bounce back. Oh yeah, great night for Star. Slow start.

And now she seems to, you know, I feel like everybody's, it's an interesting tribe. It's a really fun tribe. What did you think of the bonfire? Was that fun? I just kind of felt like that, boy, this is, we used up a lot of firewood on the bonfire, Joe. They got an ax, they can have as much firewood,

they're in a jungle. Yeah, but still you gotta use- They got as much firewood as they want. You have burned calories to do that. Yeah, that's true, there's a lot of calories, but you know, he's got the energy, my gosh. Yeah. What a performance in the challenge.

That was uncanny where he's just like, whoosh. Mm-hmm, yeah. Right? So what do you think that is? Is that he memorized where the things are? I kind of feel like in the blindfold challenge, I feel like they spin you around. Did he just like memorize the layout?

Yeah, he just memorized the layout. There was one where like May's, where like that we had in token chains, where JT like as we walked in, like that's not how my brain works, but apparently there are people whose brain works out like that. Like as we walked in, he saw the maze and then like, it was like our final five or whatever, right?

Where like it was him versus coach. And then JT won and took me to the feast. And yeah, he like just like immediately had it, like just like walking in. I bet there was something like that with Joe where he just kind of like, that's how his brain worked. It's like, you know, so he just like had it in his head. Yeah. All right.

Let's talk over on the Siva tribe. Not too much going on over there. Big night for Mitch. Big night for Mitch. I mean, is it a Wednesday? If every week a big night for Mitch. It was, yeah, I mean, you know, Mitch, If every week a big night for Mitch. It was, yeah. I mean, Mitch, who we thought was a little bit outcast with this charity Alliance makes inroads.

He goes out on a boat with Kyle and pitches their Alliance. And now Kyle suddenly is all in on that. And Kyle's thinking, now I'm in the center of these two groups. We've got Kyle, Mitch, Charity and David. And then there's the SEVA four. What if Mitch called them the SEVA four? You know, can you, does Kyle at that point have to object?

It's like, no, no, let's call ourselves something. There's an existing, there's already a SEVA. No, I think that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. If everyone's calling themselves the SEVA four, it's not, you can't just call yourself like the tribe name number, because there's gotta, it's very confusing.

It can be a lot of overlap. Sure. It's confusing, but I think that you can use that confusion to your advantage. But I feel like that's something that we say after the fact. You know, when we're watching it, like you guys are the SIVA 4, we dub you, you don't dub yourself the SIVA 4. Yeah.

We're like the warrior alliance, we're the three stooges. So like they didn't call it like World War I while it was going on? Exactly. It needs to be written by the history books that that was the SEVA 4. Yeah, you've got to come up with some like evocative name

and then we will dub you if you are, you know, the SEVA 4 or not. Yeah, I feel like the row 2-4 was the row 2-4 while it was happening. They called themselves the row 2-4. I believe so. But the row 2-4, it wasn't like there was another row 2-4 that could have happened out there.

I mean, it was Pascal and Aliyah. Yeah. And Kathy. Oh, you know what? I was thinking of the I to four Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was only four that was only four but in this group, you know And we're never gonna see how it goes because we're gonna end up having the tribe swap This is again one of you one of these questions in like a postseason interview. We're like, alright Kyle, but what how were you really gonna vote? You went to the tribal council? Right, yeah. I'd left it, I'm curious.

Okay, out of these people from the Siva tribe, who do you think is in danger if in a tribe swap? Do you think any of them are in particular trouble? No, I mean, honestly, they all seem to be like, they all seem like nice people. I mean, honestly, they all seem to be like, you know, they all seem like nice people. I mean, we haven't like seen, you know, the other than like some like initial kind of putting sauce on charity. Nobody's really seemed like an outcast. There hasn't been a lot of drama with this group. I feel like they're going to be. What was the green tribe in in Survivor 46?

The Charlie's Charlie Charlie Charlie's Tribe, yeah. Like that, they kind of had that vibe for me. Yeah, so we'll see ultimately how they end up coming together. Like so much of it is gonna depend on what the tribe makeup is of these swap tribes. Yeah, exactly. But we've seen like more drama

from the other tribes than this. This is very much like a love tribe, it seems so far. It seems like a love tribe. It seems like that they were kind of down on charity, but charity seems lovely. And she seems, and she's back, you know? Nobody, you know, Kyle didn't say, oh, I don't want to align with charity.

She's on the bottom. BS, speak about the bottom. How was that scene where you had Star, Thomas and Bianca talking and they said, those three are on the top, but we three are on the bottom. I don't understand that mathematical breakdown. If you have two groups of three, I've got the strange finger here,

two groups of three, I'm not to do like a- Two groups of three. One is not on the top and one is not on the bottom. That's not how numerical parody works. These group with Star and Thomas and Bianca felt like they were on the bottom? Yeah, there was a conversation where Star, Thomas and Bianca were talking and they said,

we're on the bottom, but those three, Joe, Eva and Shaheen are on the top, but like that's not possible. That's two groups of three. Yeah, maybe they feel like that those three are not going to break if they go to rocks and Thomas and Bianca are like, okay, we would definitely break from star if we have to. But nobody like, the only two targets are star and Eva. Like each group of three had a target. Like where does this idea that we're on the ball? You can't be like, how many people are you going to be in your group? It was like when last season when you had that Alliance of Four who were the alleged underdogs on like a tribe of seven.

Yeah, but maybe that, and who said that? Was it Thomas or Bianca? It was either Thomas or Bianca. Yeah, but like Thomas may also know like, hey, I'm also in this other three, which is actually the top. He's just like creating. I think that he might just be trying to, you know,

create a compelling argument. Did you see Thomas's eye after he got hit with the pole from last week? That was wild. Yeah, kind of a cool look though for Survivor. It's almost like that, you know, and he's gonna have that for the entire game. It's like something iconic.

You should get a patch. It's kind of a cool, like a, yeah, it's like a battle scar. Yeah. I like it. Did you weigh in on how you felt about the game that they played on the journey? Yeah, I said I didn't like it. I said I didn't like that it was random.

I think I said I like it when there's more, like they have to do some kind of, make some kind of choice. I thought it was gonna be something where they could like select certain dice, you know, they rolled and then they got to keep one. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that would, given that game,

that would have been a very stupid choice, but like some kind of choice. Yeah, if there was a little bit of like of a more strategic element to it of like, oh, do I stop here? Do I keep going? Yeah. I mean, it was just, when it's completely random,

it feels sort of like, okay, like, what did I just watch? They could have just, they could have gone in, flipped a coin, and then either they lost their bet or they didn't. Hey, look, if it works for Mr. Beast, Stephen. Yeah, okay. But for this actual, these three, Camilla ends up coming away with the victory,

Bianca ends up losing her vote, and Justin loses his vote, end of game, because of the journey. And it was, you know, I really was surprised we did a journey in the second episode in a row. Yeah. I actually didn't mind it. You know, 90 minutes fills the time.

There they are, speeding off into the wild blue yonder. Okay. Stephen, let's then talk a little bit about what is coming up with your coveted award, but let me also tell people where we were hanging out tonight, chatting away, chat BCC. We've got a very fun interaction. I really, really like this, this, this app. We've got a whole like, forget it.

Try. We've got like a season of survivor players players at this point chatting away during the episode and all week long you can go ahead and jump in for free chatting along with a ton of your Survivor faves when you go to robbinswebsite.com slash VIP chat. We try to keep the conversation going every day, have new stuff for people to be weighing in on and talking about that chat.

Who's very funny in the chat. Brando is very funny. Oh, second Brando mention of the night. Yeah, he's a very funny guy. Yeah, okay. And yeah, also like Drew Bissell is there too. Yeah, Drew Bissell. Maybe we could ask them about what happened

when Brando got voted out. Yeah, that's right. We could just take it to the top. Help us break down that tribal council. Yeah. Okay. All right, Stephen, so tonight, I think you've got a tough decision to make in terms of-

Well, I thought I did too. Until going into tribal council, I was really not sure. And I'm gonna be honest, and this person is not gonna like to, I was thinking I was gonna give it to Mitch because here's why, okay? So Mitch, I thought had a very good night. Leaving last week, Mitch looked like he had a very good night, you know, leaving last week, we were,

Mitch looked like he was a little bit isolated with charity. This week, we see him making strategic inroads. We see him building out his Alliance, you know, that that boat trip with Kyle ended up really dramatically changing his position in the tribe and going into that tribal council. I thought, well, nobody really has done anything that strategic, you know, Mary maybe has with her like idle bluff. I thought that was very clever and it worked and she clearly got into say his head, but so much of that was going to be dependent on if it actually played out at travel council. Um, and I really liked the way Mitch played it this week.

Um, the other thing that Mitch did was he complained a lot on social media about not having gotten the fishy for last week and you know, say complained after one. Works every time. Yeah. So say complain week one that we gave it to Eva. And I felt like just keep paying it forward to the person who complains the most the previous week, give it to them. And Mitch had an amazing episode last week. You know, it wasn't like strategic episode, but here I felt like he had the strategy

that, you know, he didn't have in last week, which was basically an equivalent trajectory for say, so I thought this is gonna be a Mitch Fishy. However, Rob, I have changed my mind. I think- You know what, I think that if somebody didn't even go to tribal council, they better have had the greatest episode ever. And maybe you could argue, okay, Mitch did get a lot done

last week, but- Yeah, I mean- Pre-merge, did you go to tribal council? Yeah. I think I am going, and I want you- I think the fishy goes, and I want your opinion here. I think the fishy goes to Say this week again, because Say had the biggest impact on who went home out of anybody. Say was going home. Say was done. Cedric voted for her twice.

Cedric verbally said, you know, I'm about to send you home. And she made such a powerful case. She used her emotions. She used the logistical mechanical fact that Justin had lied to Cedric. And she put so much pressure on Cedric in that moment that he ended up keeping her. And suddenly there's a tribe swap and Say's position in the game is wide open now.

I mean, that was intense strategic pressure, intense gameplay. And it 100% was determined to her place in the game. She was gone and now she's there. And I think you've got to award that. Yeah, sometimes the award goes to somebody who did a bunch of stuff and you're awarding it because of just a resume in the episode of things they accomplished.

But in the case of Say, that with just one move, she avoids getting voted out and stays in the game and gets a potential rival voted out. So I think that that is the right call after say completely upends the tribal council with an emotional plea to Cedric. I mean, how often do we see that happen? Emotional and mechanical, like she had the social reads

and she had like the mechanical details to back it up mechanical, you know, details to back it up. And I thought that's what really, I mean, that's what sold it, right? She said, she figured out, I mean, at that point, Jeff had said, Justin lied to you and I have never lied to you, you know, and how do you go forward with someone who has lied to you? And she took this little thing,

which you know, for Justin was purely innocent and turned it into a big deal that kept her in the game. Yeah, so I agree. Say consecutive fishy award winner. Who'd have thought? Well deserved. Yeah. You could really, you could argue she could have had all three. Yeah. But like, I do feel like some of last week was like the pressure of having missed, you know, like the first week. You're letting these survivors have too much effect on you, Steven.

No, I like when they're jockeying for it. You know, that makes me feel good. Yeah. I want to encourage that. OK, so you like the jockeying of that? Well, I'm just kidding. No, no, please no jockeying. No peer pressure.

I did think that, you know, Mitch had some very... Mitch was very funny about it on social media. He was making a lot of jokes about it. I don't know. I mean, it's like a joke that you heard from somebody else. You're like, I'm going to repeat it to you. It's not going to be funny. It wasn't like, you know, it's like a joke that you heard from somebody else. You're like, I'm gonna repeat it to you. It's not gonna be funny. It wasn't like, you know.

It's very contextual. Okay. Steven, anything else that you caught tonight on this episode, which, you know, was a weird episode in that, like, we got to tribal council very early with so much fireworks at tribal council. What did you think of, say, being annoyed

that the guys did not give her the heads up that they were voting? Yeah, I thought that that was an astute read also by her where they're like hey say like just so you know like You know we're all on your side like yeah, but like right up until tribal council Were you all gonna vote me out like that? That was a good point I thought a good pickup by her were they gonna vote her out or were they just keeping on trying to flush her idol? You know, I mean. Well, Justin was seemingly was going along for the plan to vote out, say, until Cedric said,

actually, hold on a second, I can't let say go. Say, play your idol tonight, we're all still gonna vote for you. And so he's like, actually, we're not gonna do that. But I think she's also annoyed that like, they all voted for Kevin and didn't give her the heads up so that she didn't have to play her idol. Like, I think she correctly assessed that they watched her idol.

Oh, I didn't even take that part into account. Yeah, like if they had just given her the heads up, she would have still had the idol. You know, she wouldn't be like off racing in the woods against Mary, which was a lot of fun. So ultimately they gave her a lot of fun. Yeah.

This Green Tribe was a true disaster, Steven. We have to say goodbye to it this week, but- But no Lulu, right? No Lulu, still not Lulu. I don't know, how was Lulu that much better than this crew? But nobody quit from this tribe. A quit is worse?

Oh yeah. I kind of feel like, I'm trying to think, like they did lose three challenges, Lulu tribe. And so, yeah, I guess if they had a challenge, Lulu versus Vula, who would win? Heads up. Oh gosh.

Like six on six, Lulu versus Vula. Six on six, fully, you know. I mean, the thing about Lulu is they had Caleb, and that was, you know, there's no Caleb on Vula. Yeah. But Kevin, you know, Kevin, I mean, you know. Here, I'll text Brandon down. Also, they had Brandon,

so that kind of like balances the Caleb. No offense, Brandon, I love you. And, look, I'm. I'm texting him, I'm asking him, who would win a challenge, Lulu or Lula? Wow, I kind of think Lula. Hmm. I don't know.

But Kayla, I mean, I mean, they also had Sabaya, Lulu also had Sabaya. Yeah, I think Vula. Hmm. I don't know. But Kayla, I mean, I mean, they also had Sabaya. Lulu also had Sabaya. Yeah, I think that Lulu ultimately is more top heavy. That you have Sabaya, you have Caleb. Emily, I think, is no slouch in the challenges. And then you have on this tribe, I mean, like who's your real standouts in the challenges? But they had a lot of, you know, Kevin did well.

Kevin got injured also on day one. Stephanie might've done well, I don't know. Yep, Stephanie might've been okay in the challenges, but I think that the top of the tribe is probably stronger on Lulu. And you want an unbalanced tribe, like for a lot of survivor challenges. You want like someone strong and fast

and you want someone who's really good at puzzles. And that's sort of where Laggy is so good. You've got, I mean, Laggy's like a brokenly strong tribe, but you've got like super strong people with Joe and Eva. And then you have these like puzzle masters with Thomas and Bianca. I mean, and Shaheen is like your, you know, and Star are these like all around players as well.

So, I mean, yeah. Yeah, I don't even know who our puzzle people are on Vula. I don't know if they ever even got to the puzzle on some of these challenges. Exactly. Okay. All right, Stephen, anything else on your mind? I never do this, but I wanna give a shout out

to this woman, Kathleen Holland, who is a big part of my daughter's school community. I know she's really special to a lot of people there and she's also a huge R-Hap fan and a big listener of all your podcasts. And so I just want, I think she's probably still listening right now. So I wanted to mention her.

And also something else, I've been directing people to my website to sign up for my newsletter. I was informed that there's like a problem with the signup form. So please don't sign up for my newsletter quite yet. Not yet, hold that thought. I'm gonna fix this.

I will fix this problem as soon as I have time. Okay, all right. Let me take out what else is coming up. Shout out Kathleen, okay? All right, we've got, over on Patreon, come on over. Survivor is better when you have a tribe and we never do a tribe swap over on Patreon. So head on over, I'll be doing the Survivor Q&A

with the patrons. Shout out to Owen Knight, who filled in for me last week on the Patreon Q&A. I heard he did great. He did great. I will be back on Friday afternoon at 3 p.m. Eastern to take all of your questions about episode three of Survivor. Then also on the Patreon feed, 3 p.m. Eastern to take all of your questions about episode 3 of

Survivor then also on the patreon feed Josh Wiggler and I are still talking about heroes versus villains 15 years later this week we talked about when JT and the heroes decided let's keep James over Tom Westman That was a crazy choice. The running competition is one of like the great moments in Survivor. Yeah, that's in the next episode. That's the next episode. But Jeff claimed his niece could be James in a race. James said, no, she can't. She cannot. All right, check that out. Over on Patreon. Also, Deal or No Deal Island, I got the chance to talk about episode 10 as we gar down to just four people left on Dondi Steven. Do you think, what position did Boston Rob go out

on his season of Dondi? He came in fourth. Wow, so you think there's like some competition between him and Parvati? Like there has to be a little bit of competition. I'm not sure. I don't know how competitive they are with it, but find out. These guys, like these like long time,

all they are is competitions. Are you kidding? They're competitive. Yeah, I don't have to read on- I'm sure they're supportive too. It's like, you know, you want your friends to do well, but not as well as you. Not as well as you.

It's like you with people from Yale. Well, mission accomplished. Okay, check it out over on we know Dondi.com. Of course, the White Lotus is something that we're covering over on We Know Scripted TV, where you can see The White Lotus, Severance Recaps, and so much more on our Scripted TV. You guys have Scripted TV podcasts?

Yes, we know scriptedtv.com. All right. And we've got a new episode of Clocktower, hopefully debuting next week, of Survivors Play Blood on the Clocktower. It is an extremely fun episode. So I hope every, you know, I don't know exactly when it'll drop,

but probably sometime in the next week or so. So start to anticipate that. Okay, be on the lookout for that. We'll let you know when it's coming. And then I have an answer from Brandon Donlon on the Lulu versus Vula matchup. He says, I think it's close. They have more height and also more will to win.

But he adds, I can take Cedric. If this is being read out loud on the pod, Cedric, I would like to challenge you in the next celebrity net fights boxing match. Wow. Okay. Wow. That's match. Wow. Okay. Wow. That's something to see.

Okay. So Donlin versus Cedric, Celebrity Net Fights, okay. Make it happen, BB Can alumni. All right. Steven, great job on just a frenetic night of Survivor. Truly. It was a good episode. I thought, hey, this is a really good episode.

But I'm curious. I don't know what's going to happen. And then I mean, I could never have predicted that. Yeah. All right. So looking forward to reading what you all have to say in the comments. Thank you so much for watching. And of course, busy Thursday coming up on RHAP.

Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Music