RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 49 Ep 4 Recap

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 49 episode 4.

The smartest guys around are about to break it down like it won the game a million times well actually they didn't really win the game at all Survivor, no, it owes. Survivor no it owes. Steve on a rock without her down. Got the game all figured out. They know it all. We know it all.

And we are back together for the first time since the premiere. of Survivor 49. I'm Rob Sistrian back with Steven Fishback. The original No-It-All's lineup. It's like when, you know, a classic band reunites, you know? Back together.

With David Lee Roth. Yep. And here we are to talk about two tribes on Survivor. Who would have thought? An exciting episode. A tribe swap. The fireworks, the explosions.

Rob, before we get started I just want to say you're a great friend I was thinking about it I mean I've recognized this before I just didn't come to this epiphany but you know you were a really really great friend and you have like

I have been you know flogging my novel escape and I always kind of thought of like you know podcasting about Survivor as this like you discreet thing I did off to the side here you know as like well and then here there's like the rest of my life

but in fact like as I've been promoting this novel like so much of the support and the adoption and enthusiasm for this book has come just from like the incredible community that you have built. And like being a part of that is like not just this side thing for me. It is like become like part of everything that I, you know, part of my whole life.

Like that's like what's bullying my book. Like that if this book does become a best seller look at which P.S. Like, you know, you could order now and then help make that a possibility. Because it's good. It's borderline. Yeah. It's borderline. And we have some support.

But like truly like, let me get back to the main point of this. not selling like it's because of it and like I didn't do anything you know you it's like I'm your friend you know you brought me along and it really is really like you're a level human Stephen that is so kind of you to say to open up this podcast and you and I have been friends for 16 years now in friendship even even predating this podcast and yeah I just want to I want to get like I'm I want to sneak up, like, and one day maybe overtake JT in your friendship rankings. We'll see. Because, like, really, shouldn't people say instead of like, oh, it's like a Stephen and J.T.

Shouldn't it be at this point, it will be like a Robin Stephen? Yeah, that's true. But that's like the post show, you know, nobody, yeah, that's like the post show. You know, we, if we weren't alliance, if we want to line. That was like 20 days. I guess 39 days in the original, like, you know, classic Survivor. But this is, you know, 16 years. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like people, you know, people are saying it's just not making air. Yeah. No, thank you so much. It's so nice to be back podcasting with you. I thought you and Omer did a great job last week. Shout out to Omer, who really had all of the snake knowledge down and a really great podcast that you both did last week as I was rubbing elbows with the glitterati in New York City at our most recent live event.

How's the hobnobbbing? Hobnobbing away. I hobnobbed so hard. And then just recently got back home. I was in New York over the weekend. I got to be a guest at the wedding of Matt LaGoree and Jofo. And it was a great time. And then a little bit of a nor'easter.

And it was really more of a non-easter, if you ask me. But I ended up only getting home yesterday. So I've been gone for a week. There's nothing the New York media likes to talk about more than like rainstorms in New York. It's like any freaking little bit of a rainstorm. Oh my God, it's the superstorm of the year. Little hyperbolic on the Nor'Easter. But we had a humdinger of an episode to talk about here as we return.

For the first time, Stephen, in six years, we had two tribes on Survivor. Wow, is that true? Is it the first time in six years, two tribes on Survivor? Not since the pre-swap of Survivor winners at war. Do you think this makes the definitive case against two tribes on Survivor? Well, okay, I said it was a great... It's not like a high advertisement. It was kind of for...

And I said I would not complain if we got two tribes. And I'm trying not... I just feel like that the way that this ended up working out, it was perhaps one of the, like, least... exciting ways that these tribes could have ended up, where you had basically both of the original tribes, you have these superpower tribes of the Hina tribe and Uli tribe. And there was seemingly like no dissension in the ranks. They had never been to a tribal council before.

So they had no reason to turn against each other. So it was sort of like, okay, well, we have four and you have two on both tribes. Right. And it was so straightforward. Like this is like exactly what's wrong with the tribe swap like according like with these with these dynamics and you keep on hoping for it to be more exciting. I do think that the short time frame before the swap just because of the 26 day season kind of like creates that where, you know, if it's 10 days before a swap and then there's all these like, you know, this animosity has built up between these people. We were talking earlier, maybe it's too early to jump into this, that it would have been better to just. separate Alex and Sophie, put one of them on each of the other tribes, and then it would have

been a more explosive thing. Why not? Why not? In either case, yes, because then you, in either case, you think like, oh, they're just going to pick off Alex and Sophie? Probably not. Because Alex, they're not threatened by blue. Well, so this was that what you were describing is exactly what they did in Survivor

Philippines, where- One of like the most iconic duos ever and becomes like, you know, such an exciting season for that reason. And now, Denise did have to do some maneuvering to get through the next couple of votes, but when you kind of had, like, there was all this tension in these starting tribes and now you add another person to the mix, it was like all this jockeying for position of who's going to grab the new person to try to inflict their will on the tribe, where maybe you might have seen if, you know, say, Sophie goes to the Uli tribe. Okay. all of a sudden, Savannah wants to work with her.

Now, okay, well, now she's not on the bottom. But maybe the people that are on the bottom are feeling like, oh, I'm going to pull in, I'm going to pull in Sophie, and I'm going to try to work with her. So I kind of feel like that by going down to two tribes, which I'm excited to have two tribes, just that adding a tribe swap that was uneven, I don't know if you could put your thumb on the scale

and in some way said, all right, three of you from, we're going to split two tribes of six into three. I know we want everything to be fair and random and everything like that, But it just feels like that the most interesting possible scenario might have been like a 3-3-1, like in Survivor Kagyon, where Sarah Lascena ends up swapping where there's three brains and three people from the beauty tribe. It's like, well, now all of a sudden the person with the one, where are they going to go? Right. And then it becomes like, it feels like it's actually a game of skill where you kind of have to like bring this person over or maybe some other faction forms, right? I do think that the 331 would be perfect.

But other than that, this is inevitably what happens, right? It's going to be 4-2-1. I mean, you know, whatever, 5-1-1, I guess was a possibility. It was always going to be these two tribes that are warring. And then, you know, they'd have one or two members from the other tribe. And then it would be, you know, this exact same on the counter on their counterpart. And very likely the four was going to stay together because the four is not enough to have like a real faction. And unless there's, I mean, I guess we saw that with seafood, where they're,

they kind of turned on Sifu, but, you know, unnecessarily. But for the most part, this is a pretty straightforward vote. Yeah, because, you know, all these tribes are all about, I got to have my core four. And now all of a sudden, it's like, okay, well, now you have a core four. Like, great. Like, why would I mess this up? This is my core four. I've got the four.

So, all right, but let's talk about what actually did happen. And we had this decision that had to be made between Matt and Jason. And I actually thought that the better move would have been to, vote out Jason instead of Matt. What do you think? So I think that I am team vote out Matt instead of Jason. Yeah. So I think I love it that we have opposite opinions.

Great. It sounds like there might be an interesting podcast here. You know, the discussion. You discussion. So I actually like to, so I think for Nate and Matt had said Nate's name. And so from Nate's perspective, I totally get, okay, Matt said my name, he has to go. And I think it's actually a testament to Nate's position in the game and how well off he is

and how he is viewed by his tribe, because he did get his will, even though we saw. I think both Savannah and Rizzo both say in the episode that they thought that Jason was the better person to go. And I think that we should really be looking at Nate as the person who holds the most influence in that Uli group. Yes, but I think we should talk about it even apart from Nate Because Nate's perspective is obviously very straightforward The person who said my name is the person I want to go

I do think there's also an interesting discussion Between these two play styles On the one hand, you have Jason I'm being very straightforward I'm not saying I'm going to like betray my former friends But I'm just going to tell you what I'm going to do And like here's my position and there it is And it's not what you want my position to be

I'm not like jumping in on your plans But I'm just being told I'm putting all my cards out there. And on the other hand, you have Matt who's like, I'm up for anything, let's do anything, I'll vote anywhere, let's betray your other tribe. I'll betray my tribe. But he shows that he's willing to work with his new group, which is typically what we say is the correct choice, right?

You want to like, the new, the group in front of you is the group. So let me push back on that a little bit because I feel like that was Matt actually willing to, I'll do whatever, I will go with whatever. I feel like that he, to Nate's face, he gave lip service. and I don't know why Sandra Diaz Twine. Like, hey, keep the queen's name out of your mouth, Matt. Yeah, good on Jeff, at least for defending Sandra. I don't know why Matt had to say, like, you know, I don't like how she plays the game,

but I can't believe it. I'm going to quote Sandra. I mean, it's not like that he's quoting, like, some, like, horrible person. I don't know what. What's his problem with Sandra? I thought, though, like, that was sort of like, to me, it wasn't, like, dissing Sandra. It was like, this is the position I'm in, and I'm kind of, like, trying to mitigate that by like, this is not how I want to play

the game. I don't want to play the anyone but me game, but I kind of have to. So that's here I am. Lipservice to Nate of, okay, well, hey, anybody but me, I'll do that. But in reality, he was like, hey, I'm not going to, like, I'll never write down Jason's name. Like, let's make a big move and, and at least credit to Matt for at least, you know,

somebody trying to make a big move happen so far in Survivor 49, but it ultimately was not going to work. Like, Joanne did not even consider that for a moment to to do that. Whereas I don't feel like that Matt was necessarily ready to, hey, I will completely flip my loyalties to go and work with this Uli group. And I just don't feel like that either of

these guys got the urgency of what was going on here, where forget about old Hina. And we didn't see a lot about old Hina, but I didn't get the sense that this was like the most harmonious tribe in the history of the show. I mean, you saw where they brought MC in and MC told Sophie about that she was on the out. So I guess maybe none of those guys knew that there was this undercurrent at Hina, but it's not necessarily like this six

is so locked in that let me tell you, Matt and Jason, Hina didn't throw the challenge. If they threw, if they were really worried about you, they would have thrown the challenge. Like, get the memo. Did you see how happy they were when they got that last block on? Yeah.

They could have just gone to tribal council and voted out people from the Red Tribe. They didn't do that. Crazy that neither tribe was going to throw the challenge. Wake up and smell the coffee, guys. Yeah. They don't care about you. They do have that fun chat. He, no, he, no.

So cringe. Juan said it so well. How do I think they came up with that one? The Heena's tribe chance? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I want to make the case, I actually, if I'm a player, if I'm like specifically Savannah actually, who's a player who's obviously playing a control game, she's like kind of the hinge of her majority alliance that now has the majority both on her tribe and in the game. I want Jason there instead of Matt there because I want someone who's going to be straightforward, not going to be scrambling, they're going to like put their cards out on the table, they're not going to like be lying to me and pretending to do one thing and they're going to do another.

Um, you want the, like, in the people who are not in your core group, I think you want the people who are the most predictable. And to me, to my mind, Jason is a lot more predictable than Matt. Like, Matt is throwing out plans. He's like suggesting the blind side, Nate. You know, he's saying I'll work with you. But he's also like trying to betray you. You know, he's also got the, what was it called? The section alliance. Um, section. Right. Yeah. Um, and so I would rather, I get, I get Savannah's point that like, I want someone who's going to like, bounce ideas and, like, be open to me. But someone like Matt is like, he's just saying that because that's the position he's in. And like, I want someone who's going to like, knowing that I can't trust him, I would rather have the person who's more straightforward and is going to be a little more obvious to play against. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So when you're saying if I'm Savannah, so Savannah was pushing for Jason to go home, you feel like that from her position specifically that she should have been more of that. I also think Matt needs to go. that is sort of that's my perspective yes i mean you know obviously savanna is living her you know i think savanna has a richer understanding of what it is to be savanna that i do yeah um but for me like if i'm that person i'll say like in the control spot you know and that was my like in the one the one when i was in the control spot playing this game like i think you get rid of the erratic players and into like keep the players who are doing less so i i wonder we saw in the

episode it was a great scene where Savannah said, I'm going to use my reporter skills, and I'm going to ask probing questions to Matt. And so she asked him the question about, like, but what did you do before you worked at the airport? And he was just like, oh, no, nobody asked me that before. I don't know what I'm going to say. She had a real, like, gotcha moment with him.

Do you think that any part of that, like that exchange where she so, like, obviously bested him in that, it's like, oh, I got to, like, I know the combination to be Matt. Jason, she went to him, offered him an olive branch. She's like, you know, I'm good. I'm going to stick with my people. Yeah, that's true. And at the time, though, she said, I mean, she said, oh, Matt was in finance.

He's a sociopath. We can't keep him around. We can't have Matt around. He once worked in finance. That's a tough hurdle. Yeah, that was a tough pill to swallow. I think that that's sort of like going back to the Cody season 40, three, don't trust the salesman.

Yeah. Was it, if you work in finance, or if you're the top guy in finance, you're a sociopath? Well, he was like he had risen in the ranks. Mm-hmm. And you have to be a sociopath. To rise in the ranks. To rise in the ranks. In finance or in any business field?

I thought specifically finance. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll see. Again, we have people in the financial industry who listen to this podcast. Let us know if this story checks out.

Yeah. I think they'll be the ones who are. most inclined to say, yeah, yeah, we're also supposed to be. Maybe. Maybe. And so I wonder now if this will be like the next thing where we have so much lying about your jobs on Survivor. This will just only reinforce that for future players. That's the thing I felt like this was this. It was like this like fake gotcha. You know, there was just because there's so little information to go on and there's so little going on that, oh, I've discovered something. So that's my gotcha moment, almost regardless of what it is.

He could have been like, I don't know, I'm like, I can't even think. If he would have just said, yeah, I was in finance. Like, but he made it. He didn't make it into the whole thing. Like, oh, boy, I wasn't sure if I was going to tell you guys or not, but. Yeah. What if he had been just been like, yeah, I'm a teacher. I'm like, oh, my God, I've got that.

He's a teacher. People are going to love him. Like, is there anything that Matt could have said? Yeah. That would not have been a gotcha moment. What if he's unemployed? I was unemployed. Oh, that he needs the money.

Can't have him at the end. Yeah. That's what a great story. Rags to riches to get to the end. So, yeah, I think just whatever you say, just make it like it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. If you, like, act like it's some secret you're hiding,

then everybody else kind of people. Author. Exactly. Yeah. No. All right. So what did you do before you were a podcast host? Uh, I, you know what?

That is a good question. That's a good question. Yeah. I was in video production in Los Angeles. This is the guy who wrote The Scorn. We got to vote him out. Yeah. All right.

I've, listen, a lot of people want to get payback on me from writing the Scorn. Okay. I heard a lot of people's careers with that. Stephen. All right. How about for Jason? He does ultimately write down Matt's name. for being Heena's strong.

I was proud of him. Yeah. Oh, really? I thought that, obviously that was like, I think that was the deciding vote, right? Had he not done that, maybe he would have gone home.

I really liked the like, I'm playing my shot in the dark move here. Yeah. To me, that was like a very strong move because that, I mean, for all the reasons that we praised, oh gosh, what season was it where like everybody was playing their shots in the way?

I think it was 44, right? There was like a lot of shots in the dark play. Yeah. By the way, yeah. Okay. And I'll tell you that, Perfect timing. Let me talk about who's going to be on the podcast this week. A woman who did play her shot in the dark. Jamie Lynn Ruiz is going to be joining me for the recap this week. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about what it's like to be a person who swaps to another tribe. And then friend of Jason, I was so happy that Jason survived the episode so that I can talk to his great friend, Kenny Huang, is going to join me for the old school interview. I'm really excited to hear from both of those people, but Kenny, whom I used to, you know, see around.

I'm really excited to, you know. To mention exit interview with Matt, patron Q&A, and Club Condo all coming your way this week. But so, I mean, to me, like the idea of playing the shot in the dark here was really smart because A, like, makes you a less juicy target because like you don't want that to blow up in your face. I mean, although they were splitting the votes, but even so, even so. And then B, it just shows like, I'm not taking the side. Like, to me, that was his whole pitch. Like, I'm just going to do this.

this is the safe thing for me. I don't have to betray Matt. I'm not going to vote, like, in this mix up, I'm just going to play my shot in the dark and leave me alone. And I thought that was like, that kind of like contributed to his pitch. Ultimately, it obviously did help him because.

What were the votes? It was three to three to two to, uh, four to two to one. Only there's one vote for Nate from Matt. Yeah. So it was four to two. And then I think there were two votes on, um,

I think the two, let's see, Savannah and, um, Rizzo. And Sophie voted for Jason voted for Jason and then everybody else voted for Matt. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, does Jason need to actually play his shot in the dark there or is the bluff enough? You think he should actually go through and play it? I kind of because, I mean, I guess like voting for Matt in that scenario coming for him too. Yeah. And nobody's going to blame him if like for voting for Matt though. So I mean, I hear like voting for Matt like does show that he's willing to like go with the group and that that, you know, I'm sure that there was more nuance in this decision than, like, the loyal guy and the skinny guy. I'm sure Jason at some point did say, yeah.

The only thing for Jason to actually then bluff and then not play the shot in the dark is that he will need to play the shot in the dark if he goes to the next tribal council. So then once he does play the shot in the dark, then he's kind of like a sitting duck if they go to the next tribal council. Right. That's a good point. That keeping the shot in the dark here is actually kind of important. Okay, so I'd love to talk a little bit.

And we'll talk about the other tribe as well. But let's talk about Sophie B, who ends up in really playing a great round of the game as she gets out of the old Kella tribe and then ends up here on this new group and ends up really doing great of getting along. Completely integrated immediately. To the point, I mean, usually we have that montage of her going to everybody. And I thought, okay, like, that's pretty straightforward. everyone was welcoming her. But then specifically when Rizzo says, oh, I've got the Beware advantage,

you know, I'm going to get an idol. Like that to me was like, she's really been brought in at this point. Yeah. I mean, she ends up telling Savannah, everything that went on with her and Alex back at the Kela tribe. And so it really does feel like that she's set up well. She's set up, she's in with Nate as well.

She might be ahead of Joanne in the pecking order of the tribe. Oh, she definitely. She definitely is. I mean, Savannah says, like, I really trust her. She reminds me of. my friends at home, I was trying to think, like, did I ever play with someone who reminded me of my friends at home? I can't think of, like, anybody I play with in either of my seasons who, I mean, I mean, like, Rob, you remind me of my friends from home. You're a young,

a young cute brunette. I, you know, that was like, I, you know, I guess you are probably the person, but in terms of, like, people on the actual survivor, did anyone you play with remind you of your friends from home? No. No, not at all. And from some ways, I feel like that's a weakness of, I mean, that's like the weakness, right, that everyone talks about of contemporary survivor. It's like, they'll remind you of your friends from home. Mm-hmm. You know, like, yeah.

Yeah. So as far as Sophie B goes, so interesting, though, that before they left, they had like one last horrible night, they get back. And what are the chances that they're sleeping on the beach, the tide comes up, pulls the boat into the ocean and steals her shoe, the ghost of Jake is still living, thriving. The shoe bandit lives. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, but not so much that it was totally gone.

It did come back, just like the shoe bandit. That's amazing. The shoe bandit continues on. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And then luckily, then they found her.

shoe even like everything is turning up Sophie yeah it really incredible yeah it was that was incredible yeah great episode for Sophie I agree gets to vote with the majority gets everything kind of like goes well for her here yeah so she's in a really good spot do you feel like that now going forward like has she really like risen to the ranks of where she is like one of like the end game people. Do you feel like for Survivor 49? I think so. I thought I thought like both she and Alex were like midgamer, but I actually do kind of see her as an endgamer at this point in the end in the game. I think that like she's in with this core group, Savannah who's clearly like the top dog so far of anybody, right?

Like who's competitive with Savannah for being in a controlling position right now? The is I thought like maybe I honestly can't think of anybody like maybe Stephen like we've seen like some, but like he's, we've seen like bad. vibes and good vibes from him like mc is in a good spot like savanna definitely seems to be in like a really dominant position and she you know had a whole confessional about how much she connects with sophie more than anybody else um just because you know friends from home so i think that sophie's probably getting to the end um and this this group i think is probably the end gamers i really like Nate by the way Nate is i have a feeling i haven't had a chance to talk about that um because

he's not been one of these big characters but i just love his whole vibe. The vibes are immaculate. Saul, yeah, I could see that. Not like because, yeah. Yeah, well, I think that Saul is somebody who is more of like speak softly, you know, isn't super loud and like talking all the time. But I think that his weight, his voice carries a lot of weight and is somebody who's like very respected in the group.

Yeah, and I think that's, that's it exactly. They don't exactly, they're not exactly the same vibe. Oh my gosh. I've been colonized by the word of five. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, they're just like sort of like, that's it. It's like thoughtful, soft-spoken adults who were well respected. If you're watching RJP on YouTube, you've seen my new studio setup. You'll never believe that it's all wayfair. The paneling behind me, the chair I'm in, the plants all picked by me and shipped right to my door. The best part is it's free delivery, even on the big stuff. And in our house, I'm not just

serving looks. I'm serving a bunch of people my wife has invited over the house this fall, and they've got everything that we need at Wayfair to get these parties going so my wife can enjoy having people over. That's my job, okay? And you know how crazy the stores get this time of year? Nicole can order wreaths, lights, even inflatables from the yard right from her phone. No one has to drive to the store and getting a fight over a parking spot. Getting ready for every fall festivity, couldn't be easier. Wayfares where we grab it all, whether it's a guest room, refresh, or some holiday

flavor for the living room. No running around. I can do it all right here. Get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop for all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

Ark Raiders, a multiplayer extraction adventure video game set in a lethal yet vibrant future Earth. As a raider scavenging the remnants of a derelict world, you settle into an underground settlement. Hoping to thrive, you jump on the chance to start over. But doing so means you must return to the surface where arc machines roam, and survivors' motives remain dangerously unclear. But if you're brave enough, who knows what you might find?

Play the server slam open test from October 17th through 19th on PlayStation 5 Xbox Series X&S and PC. With MX Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining, means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. I also really am, Jawan is growing on me.

He is just so fun. I want to keep watching Jawan react to stuff. Yes, yeah. When he walked into Tribal Council, that was great. That was great. He has great reactions to things. like it was great to watch the Matt plan that he sold him because he had me going for a second that he seemed like seemed very excited about it but then instantly in confessional tells us

that no this is a horrible plan I don't want this so I thought that this was a great episode for Joanne where we had seen him sort of like really maybe circling the drain on the Uli tribe where now he has now I think where we'll talk about the other tribe and where sage and Savannah are at, I'm sorry, Sage and Shannon are at. But it feels like that Joanne has really, like, cemented his place now in that Uli core four. Very funny scene between him and Jeff. Which one?

Where Jeff asks him, like, what are you making your decision on tonight for who to vote out? And he's like, well, you know, it's a great question. I haven't really thought. And Jeff's like, maybe, you know, have you thought about that at all today? Seemed like a very straightforward question for me. I thought Jeff had a really great episode. I thought it was a great like meta Jeff episode.

Like I really liked it where then Jeff talked about how it was a fake out in terms of the challenge of like, yeah, that's what this is a fake out. We were never going to do a challenge. So I like that he called that out. I thought he had a really interesting moment on the mat with Sophie that I was glad that they left in the episode where Jeff is like, all right. We got a reward, and like, here it is, like a big plate of fruit. And so he's like, fruit, that's the, that's if I was on a diet at home, I would eat that. And Christina's like, no, no, listen to her. And Jeff was like, what, this is no good?

This is no good? Yeah. And also, he's specific, that's not really what I was going for with my question. You know, that was not exactly what I was trying to evoke. What's funny is that, you know, what you don't see on Survivor is like, Jeff does. He'll ask, like, someone like, give me this. And then, like, they won't. And so he'll go to them next.

give me that. And so much of when you're out there and you're in the Jeff moments, you're like, I got to give Jeff what he wants. I got to give Jeff what he wants. Um, and then, you know, um, for them to show kind of him asking that and someone getting it wrong and him kind of being like, that was not really what I was looking for. I thought was like, yeah, that's a part of the show you don't really see. But Stephen, she was so real for that. The fruit is not a great reward. I'll say it.

Like, call me Sam Phelan if you want. But I think that, fruit is not that exciting of a reward. Now, in Survivor the Amazon, there was a reward where it was like fruit and maybe like some spices. Like I had been swapped to the tribe with the women. We lost. We were like, we don't even care. This is like, and that was just like a reward challenge. You had your Coke refrigerator to go back. No, that was on the other tribe. I had been separated from it. And I know they have nothing. That's going to be one of the best rewards ever. I know they have nothing, but it's like it's part of the show. that you want to see these people, like that they, okay, here it is.

Here's like a dozen donuts and you're watching these slabs, like shoving donuts in their face. Like, I don't want to see people like eating grapes. Like, I want to see savages, like devouring Oreos. Yeah, yeah. Like, licking like the fingers. I'm sure there's a YouTube channel you can look at for that. No, I just feel like that we've lost the fun of it. Like, just give them like, give them like a bowl.

of chips or like something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Like they let them have like we don't have to have a healthy dessert. Yeah. We can have we can have fun snacks. Here is a salad. Yeah, that you're a ward. We've got ice cold salad.

Lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots, light dressing. I'm dressing. You make it a little more appealing there with the dressing. People just be guzzling the dressing. Water chestnuts. Worth playing for? And I know it's just, you don't even have to give them a reward.

It's an immunity challenge. But still, let's still, let's just, you know, let's remember to have some fun. Box of donuts. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's talk about this other new, new Kella tribe. Okay.

First of all, I have to say, I didn't love that we had, like, we had two fully formed tribes. It was so narratively, it was so simple. We're killing the blue tribe. Sophie B. Burries the blue tribe buff. We had it. It's red versus yellow. No. We're actually, we need to keep the narrative of the blue tribe has no supplies. So just arbitrarily, we're killing

the red tribe and now it's going to be like Survivor the Amazon. Yellow versus blue. I do think that there is some argument to be made here, right? That, like, if you're going to send two groups back to two separate beaches, it's more exciting narrative. You know, like, two, the good beach and the middle beach. No, it's like the good beach and the crappy beach. This group is in the good beach.

This beach is the one is on the crappy beach. Like, there's something there. That's that I agree with you. I'm just like making the opposite case. Like, but I do think that they're, like, you can see how they justify it to themselves. right like which tribe do we get rid of do we keep these two tribes that are doing like like the the big in the middle bowl or do we get the big ball in the tiny bowl yeah i listen i i hear i hear what you're saying and i almost get it more in the three tribes where like last season there was the vula tribe

and then there was a tribe swap and then somebody there were they kept them in three tribes somebody had to go to the vula beach and somebody was inheriting that beach but we had the story of we're We're killing the Blue Tribe. The Blue Tribe is dead. Like, just let it die. You know what never resonates for me is when, like, then, like, the Blue Tribe wins a challenge. They're like, the Blue Tribe wins.

The first time. The blue buffs have won. It's like only Alex is the only common denominator. Not the same people at all, you know? And it never, never, like, it's for me. Yeah. I don't really care, like, what color it is? What did Sophie B do other than draw a different color buff out?

Why does she get to go have fire now and go use a machete? Yeah. And it's all like, you know, going back to Fiji, I think, you know, it's not that exciting to see the tribe that has like less just lose because they had less. You know, you kind of want people to lose because they were worse, you know, not because they got deprived artificially. All right. Well, okay, that being said, let's talk about this new tribe where we end up with four people from the old Hina tribe, what we have. Stephen, Christina, MC, and Sophie, Sophie S. And then we also have, of course, Alex,

and then we have Shannon and Sage. And we got to see, okay, so Shannon went to work here. And she really got into her bag of working on her spirituality and working on getting everybody on board with this very spiritual side of her personality. Yeah. And Sage doesn't like it. Sage doesn't like it. And you know what? Can I tell who else doesn't like it? Yeah. Me.

You know what? This is one of my least favorite things. And in some ways, I feel like that, okay, it's Survivor. There are no rules. Get it, girl. But it's one of my least favorite things. It's something that gives me the ick when people use spirituality to try to, and listen, there's plenty of people, I'm sure that I was saying, like, hey, it's all fair in love and war on Survivor, but I just feel like that then people never, like, come clean and own that that is their intention. Like, if, if we saw Shannon saying, like, listen, I'm playing up the spiritual angle now to get everybody eating out of the palm of my hand. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to start talking about God to Christina

because I can tell that that's going to work with her. But she'll never own it. She'll never come out and say that that's what she is doing. I didn't like it in South Pacific when that was something that was going on specifically where coach was really using that to keep his tribe under all going in the same direction. So it's just one of my least favorite things to watch. because I don't feel like it's ever owned in terms of like that's what somebody is doing. I agree with you, but I want to give the counter argument. And I do think it's different here than what happened in South Pacific. You know, in that season, you literally had coach saying like the godful thing for Brandon Hans to do is to give up immunity.

You know, in that way, it was like really directly manipulative. I do think there's, I mean, I was team sage of this duo, but I do think there's a world, right, where Shannon is a spiritual person. She restrained that part of herself in a group that was less receptive to it. And then she finds a group of people who's more receptive. And it's, you know, you bond over the things that you have in common, you know. And if some of that is being spiritual or like, you know, that if that's a big part of your life, why not connect over that? You know, if someone's there who's like a big, you know, Dickens fan, I'm probably talking to them about that, you know? Sure.

It's just Dickens a lie. Maybe this was just my read on it and maybe other viewers didn't have the same conclusions that I had. But it felt to me like a little manipulative and like beyond the game in the way that, you know, Shannon really tried to, you know, when Christina is opening up to her about her mother and that was really just, you know, and how she's, she's had this loss. and for Shannon to come in and it felt like exploitive. Yeah, I do see that. I do see that.

And I think that's there, right, to some degree. But I want to like, because you're making that case, I do want to kind of, like, if someone was telling me about the loss of their mother, I would probably respond with, like, my most, you know, spiritually minded self, too. You know, I'm not being like, well, you know, I'm an atheist. So, you know, I'd probably give them sort of back more of that, that part of myself. Yeah. And so, and again, it's sort of.

Survivor and look, you got to do what you have to do to stay. But also, like, I would love to see somebody own that also. Right. Because I would respect it more. Right. Yeah. I just don't think it's that neat. I don't think it's like, I'm this way because of this.

You know, I'm sure that, like, that aspect of it, the pressures of that bring out that part of her. But I doubt, I mean, like, in her head, is she thinking, like, I'm going to play up this spiritual thing and pull the wool over their eyes? You know, I'm sure she's just, like, naturally through a combination of, like, the social pressures of the game. and maybe feeling more at home in that. Like, she probably, that part of her, like, emerges maybe more. So it is an interesting story about Sage and Shannon,

who were people that were on the tribe together where Sage looked at Shannon a little bit like a soul sister. And we saw last week where Sage opened up to Shannon about how she was feeling kind of vulnerable in where she was at. And then Shannon went back to Savannah and ratted her out, just like so many of her best. friends had done to her previously. Yeah.

Oh, poor, poor sage. Poor, sage, and her jar of blackheads. Rob, where did you know that? Did you know that? Yeah. Did you know that that before tonight? Oh, no. Was that like in the press?

Yeah, that was in her pre-game press. So you've all been wrestling with the jar of blackheads. I'm newly, this is new from me from your reactions to that. I'm pretty repulsed by that. Yeah. That gave me the ick. It gives you the ick. It's pretty gross.

I can't even like, visualize, like, what that would be. And I don't need to see a picture of it. So, Sage, you could just leave that at home. But I don't, I can't even imagine what that would look like. You know, Sage is unapologetically herself. And I think that's, like, really beautiful and lovely. That said, we got a confessional from her last week about how, you know, nobody wants

they get to know her more, like, you know, she loses friends. And, like, maybe part of the problem is you're showing them your jar of blackheads. You know, like, if there are, if there are weird. parts of yourself that are repellent to other people, that's fine. You can put that out there, but if you want to be like socially beloved, you need to keep that to yourself. Yes, yes. There used to be shame. Like you can be like a weirdo who has all these quirky fixations and screw what everybody else thinks or I care about what everybody else thinks. I'm going to keep those quirky fixations to miles up. I don't think you can have it both ways. Right. So it's like let your

freak flag fly but also like you also have to own the baggage that comes along with that right like i if i i went to her house and she was like oh check out my blackhead jar i would probably not want to go to her house again yeah like i have my uber is coming when is it so weird yeah yeah i love that for her i embrace that part of her but i personally don't want to see the jar blackheads yeah okay well um let's oh um let's talk about so stephen notes these two kind of sides of them. On the one hand, he says Shannon seems really centered. She's obviously the more, you know, social player. On the other hand, and he likes that. He wants to work with someone who has that capacity. On the other hand, he likes that Sage is an oddball. He himself is a bit of an

odd ball. And that's kind of his initial impressions. But over the course of time, he then comes to say, basically what you're saying, you know, Shannon is a shark in a spiritual guru's body. Where are you, Rob? Like, if you, if Blue goes to tribal council and you're Stephen, who are you keeping here? Yeah, I think that that was a good read by Stephen where he's, he notices that Shannon is able to, like, be putting people under her spell where that she is, like, talking about, like, you know, in very vague terms about God and spirituality, that she's sort of like, it's like an amoeba that she can make it fit around, like, whatever. your belief system is, it's like, okay, she's got something for you. And I think that that is something that is very hard to, because you know how it is on Survivor, where I think that the people are looking for meaning. It's sort of like you are in this battle of wills versus these

other people in the environment. I think that people are probably more spiritually open to things on Survivor than they might be in their mundane everyday lives. And so Shannon could potentially have a lot of power in terms of being able to put people under her spell. Yeah, I think this is a no-brainer. Obviously, you vote out Shannon here. I mean, Sage just seems delightful, too. I have to say, like, just like all of her, like, quirkiness, you know, the fact that

she's, like, out there. I mean, like, you know, whether or not I want to see the draw blackheads, I think she'd be very fun to, like, play with on the island. Sure, because you're bored. She's going to have good stories. Yeah. And, like, you also, you know, vis-a-vis what I was saying about Jason and Matt, you know, she's saying, I can't control my reactions. You know, I can't control what my face is doing.

Like, I want that person, you know, I want the person who is more easy to read who's not trying to manipulate and certainly who's not trying to, like, use spirituality to manipulate. So, yeah, but then, you know, Christina goes to Shannon on, you know, so that's Stephen's perspective, this Stephen and that, Stephen. But then Christina goes to Shannon and says she wants to work with her and Alex. What did you think of that? Yeah, so Alex, he looks like that he is in a fine position, but it didn't seem like that he got pulled in as much as Sophie B. And Sophie B did such a great job. Alex, I think, just did a fine job. Like there was probably no scenario unless he was like a total monster that these people were going to get together and want to target him.

But it didn't really feel like that he got pulled into Hina the way that Sophie B got pulled into Uli. Yeah. Or we just didn't see as much of it because it wasn't as relevant for the episode because they didn't go to travel counsel. But yes, overall, it did seem like Alex was less that person. I mean, I don't know, this idea that like there's a sub faction that, you know, happening here with Christina. I mean, do you think that was a real proposition as an alliance or was that smoke? I don't know. It seemed like that we're really building up the Christian.

and Shannon story, and I know that they wanted to, you know, tell us Christina's story about her mom, and maybe that was the way in to be able to get to that, because that was mentioned after they won the challenge, that it was that they, uh, they dedicated the challenge to Christina's mom. And so when they won, and it got, and Shannon was very quick to mention, uh, that again. So I think that that's, um, it may have just been something that they wanted to get out there. But the problem is with Hina, going back to the old Hina, we never got a clear picture

of what was going on in Hina in the first place. We saw a little bit of, I can't even remember the exact three that was trying to bring an M.C. I think it was Matt. Matt. Maybe it was no, maybe it was no Jason.

It was Matt, Christina, and Stephen tried to bring an M.C. And then she went back and told Sophie. So we don't even know where Jason was, the guy who was the most gung-ho about, hey, I love Hina so much that we don't even know if he was in the, he might have been at the bottom of Hina, which makes it even more puzzling that he was like, oh, I can't. I have, I'm waiting for my people. I do wonder if you're an alternate if you just always feel like you're on your back foot. And obviously, like, MC does not,

was emce who's in the exact same position and is not feeling that way. But, you know, I feel like when you're out there and your cast, you're like, oh, I've got these plans and these schemes and here's what I'm going to do. When you're alternate, you're like, just like, please let it happen. Please let it happen. And then if it does, you're like, oh, it's happening. Oh, my gosh. What's happening now. you know yeah um i mean i wonder if there's always a little bit of like catching up to do when you when you're an alternate just in terms of that maybe i get but emc is obviously you know handling the game great stephen are you surprised that neither of the sides talked about

throwing this challenge it's crazy to me i because it's in both of the sides to do it i was thinking like if it was like in my fantasy survivor both tribes are like competing to throw it more effectively. Yeah. So I can understand why maybe like Alex or Sophie might not want to be throwing the challenge, but it's really like, I'm trying to think of like, yeah, you'd want to throw the challenge. I was trying to think like, okay, Matt was like the person who was really fumbling in the challenge, but he, it's in his best interest. He wants to win the challenge because he's on the side that shouldn't want to lose the challenge. So yeah, for either of these sides, if you're, if it's this battle between Uli versus Hina, you have these, to go back to

Australian Survivor and King George, like, you have these hostages who are here in your tribe from the other side that you have these people that they can't do anything. Yeah, yeah. It makes, it makes all the sense in the world to try to get, to try to get rid of them. I mean, I guess like you also just, there's some part of you, A, that you're in a challenge, you're playing to win. Like, that's sort of why you're there, right? like that's not me but that's what some people think um and then there's also just that sense of i never want to choose to go to tribal council because it could go wrong for me right i could be the end like this could be the disastrous thing for me that like ends up ending my game and i just don't

see it now so i think there there's always that element or like someone's got an idol and it's going to blow up in my face and like i could go home because it's like some dumb throw again not my perspective on the game but because i think the risks of that are lower than the risks of you getting on the wrong side of the numbers overall. Although now, like, the numbers, you know, aren't so influx by the end that, like, there's a lot to be said for just being safe week to week in this kind of Calvin Ball survivor. But especially if you're in the majority and you're feeling good about, like, the group that you're with. And it seems like that both sides, it's not necessarily like where it's two people from one side of the alliance and then two

people that were on the bottom, where the four is sort of at loggerheads. It seemed like that it was a pretty cohesive majority for on both sides that I can't imagine nobody was thinking about this. Yeah, I'm sure they talked about it and then, you know, came to some conclusion about it. Because I feel like everybody talks about everything and just the stuff that we didn't see, you know, just didn't make air. But I will be curious when your interview with Matt to hear like what they, you know, I guess like nobody's like they're not talking to him about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not mentioning it to him. Yeah. But yeah, if there was, maybe he overheard something.

Maybe. And, or maybe he's so deeply internalized them talking by throwing the challenge that he decided to do it for them. Yeah. Or maybe that he's going to say that they did throw the challenge. Yeah. That's why he was the only one, he had to carry on the balance beam because nobody else was going to do it. Who are you rooting for? Who am I rooting for?

In the challenge, who are you rooting for? Oh, I guess I was rooting for the tribe that ultimately, I thought it was more, there was more stuff going on. in the tribe that went to tribal council. So I guess I was rooting for Hina. To win. To win the job. I didn't have a strong rooting interest. Yeah. It might be 51.49.

Yeah. That's sort of all right. I kind of wanted Kelly to go. I like both Jason and Matt a lot as characters. And I was, I was bummed to lose either of them. All right. Sophie, by the way, let's talk about other Sophie and who is maybe has her second, first or second confessional of the season.

And it's about not wanting to have to eat worm. and how miserable that would be and what a miserable beach he's on. Okay. Not a great, like for most visibility for Sophie S, not the best visibility for Sophie S. Yeah, I mean, she did have a moment.

She had a moment with calling out the, that fruit is trash. Yeah, well, that was it. It was about the bad, fruit was bad and that she doesn't want to eat worms and she's like, it's all very, it's like luxury goods. Fruit's great.

Fruit is delicious in real life. Yeah. Oh, so you're with her. You're team, Sophie S. I think that they could have, listen, but listen, I'm from an old, I was with women that took off their clothes because they wanted candy, okay? Yeah. You think Jenna and Heidi were going to get naked for a kiwi? I don't think so.

Give us some candy because we're crazy. Okay. Let's talk about the other big moment in the episode, Rob. What was the other big moment? R-I-Z-G-O-D. the man, the myth, the legend, finds his idol. But what was interesting about this, underwater chest, very cool. But what was more interesting about it was the way everybody really worked together, you know?

I was worried they were going to find it without him and not give it to him. I was wondering about like, where are the rules? Like, what are the rules here? Is everybody allowed to go on the scavenger hunting? Yeah, I really thought, because you had Savannah and Joana and Nate and they were all like, all right, let's just take. He's not around. He'll be happy.

Let's just dig it up. And it's like, well, we have the clue. should we just go get the idol? Like what are the, what is the rule on that? Because we saw where, going back to when Alex was looking for his thing. And then Sophie B was like, hey, I'm going to get the key and I'm going to, I'm going to go get the idol for myself. It seemed like she would have been able to do that. Yeah, that's right.

You got two very different scenarios there with other people trying to get the thing. I think they could have done it. I think they could have gone and gotten his idol. Does he get his vote back? Because he's got the parchment thing. He's like, this is, you got to do this. It does you. But Stephen, it's always been, and this is something that you and I have debated for many years about the, you know, having the idol, nobody can take it from you.

But if you just have the clue, you, like, somebody else could go and read your clue and go and take the idol. That's what's so weird about these mechanics that are not based on, like, it's like, same thing with, like, you know, the knowledge is power where you're like, not allowed to lie about it. It's almost like a little bit weird when it's like nobody else can do this. But I do wonder, I would like to get clarification on that rule because I think it's really interesting

in terms of like, you're right, like these two groups played it very differently, but someone was doing it based on a false premise, right? Like either Sophie was just wrong that she would not have access to that idol or, you know,

the Red Tribe was wrong that they like, or I mean, I guess maybe they were wrong. They were nice. Right, they were nice. Like could they have stolen? They were naive. Okay.

What a run! This champ is picking up speed. But they found a lane. Phenomenal launch into the air. Absolutely incredible. Air Transat! Fly the seven-time world's best leisure airline champions, Air Transat. Stop leaving savings behind at the pump.

Get up to 7 cents per liter in value every time you fill up at Petro Canada. That's 3 cents per liter in instant savings plus 20% more points when you link an eligible RBC card to your PetroPoint. Find out more at RBC.com slash Petro-Dash Canada. Conditions apply. All right. Let's talk about a big question that's going to be on everybody's minds. Who is going to win this week's Fisci Award? It's going to win the Fishee.

It is time. That was the best one yet, I feel like. The volume was good. It's really like cut down. to its most essential self, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so two candidates here, I think. The first is, once again, Sophie B, just like comes from nothing and then integrates

herself into the best alliance in the game to the point where she is being told the clue about the beware advantage fully, you know, and then votes with the majority and now seems to have gone from being really at the bottom of the game to totally at the top. The other one is Nate, because I do think that Nate probably is the person who benefited the most from this vote. Obviously, there was some dissension, both Savannah and R-I-Z-G-O-D, the man the myth of the legend. You don't have to keep saying that one. He does, why can't I? The, no, okay.

And Risgod wanted to vote out. Jason, Nate was pushing for Matt, both because Matt was throwing out his name, so it makes a lot of sense for Nate. And as I previously said, I think that that was the right choice. Where are you, Rob? Talk me through those two options. So I think that those are the two candidates that we should be talking through.

And I thought that Nate did gain the most in Matt going home over Jason. But if you were going to go from like week over week of whose odds to win the game rose most dramatically in this episode. To me, I think it's Sophie. Sophie was really in dire straits coming into this episode, part of just a two-person tribe. And now, here she is. And I think that you'd probably consider her to be one of the top winner candidates. So she really improved her position the most. Even if she did not have, like, so much to gain Matt versus Jason, who cares? She actually voted for Jason. But for her to have come. this far and to get so ingrained in the new Uli tribe that it feels like to me, I mean, she's

actually part of the new Hina tribe, it seems to me like she is the big winner of the episode. Yeah. But did she make a move? You know, I mean, I guess the whole like her like, you know, pitch campaign to all of these people, I'm so loyal. You know, I would be a great ally. You know, obviously she resonates. I am that girl.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, there is the element two of luck here, right? Where so much of Sophie beginning to be on that tribe instead of Alex is just which package she opened. You know, Savannah likes Sophie because she reminds her of her friends from home. Like, is that a move being, like reminding someone? And maybe it is. I mean, Ethan's on always said, well, truly, like, yeah.

Like, I always try to be the person to everybody on the tribe that they need. If someone, like, you know, misses their brother at home, I try to be the brother. If someone's missing their son, I try to be the son. So, I mean, I do think, like, being the friend is a really viable thing. And I do think probably Sophie plays that beautifully. That said, Sophie's gotten two fishies already. And because I do think that this is a good move for Nate, you know, Nate's in a great spot. Like, you can't, I know it's a broken system that false losers for losing.

But like, Nate, you know, has created this position of influence on his group. where two people in this four-person group want to get out, Matt, from what we've seen. And then, you know, Nate ultimately gets his way. He eliminates the person who I think is the right person to eliminate and the person who's trying to target him. So I am going to give it to Nate. Yeah. Why did you say it's a, you know, it's a broken system that rewards loses for a loser, for losing? This was fine.

That was a, you know, I didn't think this was like an indictment of the fishy award this week. I just try to work that in as much as possible. It is a good line, you know. Mitch did eat with that one. Yeah. For sure. Okay. Stephen, were you spooked at all when we saw another snake in this episode, which seemingly

was like in the hammock right behind Matt? I mean, once, you know, this could be the revenge of the snakes. Yeah. Do you think that that was the curse of that the snake, like, claimed another victim that we saw the snake and then went right to Matt, and then he was going to go home in this episode? Oh, I didn't, I didn't make that connection.

I didn't make that. I mean, I'm sure that was deliberate, you know? I'm sure that was like a thematic thing. They're so good. Like, the editors on this, like, they're so thoughtful. Any little thing you notice, like, they have, like, thought through

and done deliberately. Okay. All right. Anything else about this episode? I think we really, I mean, honestly, like, the fact that we got, you know, we probably have as much content here as the episode itself.

Like, how long do you think we will stay in two tribes before we go to the emergency? think it'll be just one more episode because I think that typically episode six is the don't call it the merge but it's when we have mergatory yeah I think that's right so one more episode one more episode is two and then um yeah then they're going to the and so that'll get us down to then then just 12 people uh going into the merge yeah is that a small jury is 11 what is it what has it been I guess that has been typically so well no what they've done is that they've done the okay the split tribal council and then one person isn't going to make the jury so it seems like that because of

the medical evacuation it seems like that we're not going to mess around with that which i think everybody will be appreciative of nobody likes that no yeah okay all right stephen let's talk about what else is coming up and then uh of course uh we have our friends over on chat bcc where we are talking about the episode. We're hobnobbing with the glitterati over there. All the survivors that you want to care about are there over on chat BCC. Come and chat with us for free during the episode and all week long. Go to robbins website.com slash VIP chat. But if you really wanted the dead internet theory, I was just reading with a dead internet theory. You heard about this? Yeah, I've heard about this. Like everything is bots and therefore like when you're interacting on almost any social

platform, it's like all bots. So I don't think it's all. It's not all bots. But there is, like, there's a lot of, right. There's a lot of bots, yeah. Not all bots, but like enough that the, you can't totally distinguish between what is what is human. And the future, you know, is kind of going back to these closed networks where you know that there are actual real people. And I do feel like chat BCC is kind of a step in that direction.

Like, this is real people. This is real people who you're, you know, chatting with and connecting with. Where everybody knows your name, chat BCC. Who of the survivor accounts on chat BCC is most likely to actually. be a bot. Hmm. That's a tough one. Let's see. Maybe Christian would be the person smart enough to have a bot. Great a bot for himself. Yeah. Yeah. So he can be, you know, doing, you know, whatever else and then have his bot posting away. Yeah. Okay. All right, Christian, we're on to you. All right. But we're also on to a wicked romp of a page turner known as escape.

Right. So this is another, I'm trying to do these like weekly, these like incredible blurbs I've gotten from authors. This week's is from Janelle Brown. It is razor sharp and darkly unsettling, a wicked romp of a page turner and a poignant insider critique of fame, ambition, and the human craving for connection. This is Janelle Brown, and this was a really important blurb for me to get, because Janelle Brown is this author of both literary fiction and thrillers. She was the New York Times bestselling author of Pretty Things and Watch me disappear and many more. And just like one of my big concerns with writing this book was I wanted it to be like

propulsive and enjoyable and really plotty. Like I felt like I could get like the character stuff and like the thematic stuff. And like obviously I know a lot about reality television, but I wanted it to be like enjoyable to read. And when I when I pitched it to my to publishers, I said, you know, this is like a literary. It's like a literary thriller with genre bones. And I really don't think before I worked with my editor. that it had that proposure, that it had those genre bones.

And I worked really, really, really hard to give it that. So to get this from Janelle Brown, who's like the expert in this, you know, like one of the foremost writers in this world was so validating that I, like, all that work I had done was, was, was work was working. The work was working. Anyway. Yeah. All right.

Well, an incredible recommendation from Janelle Brown. Also, come on out and see us in San Francisco in just. I can't believe it's only going to be, I've only been home for two days. Like, I'm going to be back on the road again, November 5th. Wow. Come out and see us a lot. More glitterati. More hobnobbing.

Wait till you see the big glitterati coming out to San Francisco. I bet it's going to be very good. It's going to be, basically they're calling it the next San Francisco Gold Rush, all of the glitterati that it's going to be out there for the live show. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Then on Friday, I'll be taking patron questions live coming up at 3 p.m. Eastern on Friday for episode four with the patrons. Then also on Patreon, Club Condo, we'll be talking about anything that's happening in the Survivor Multiverse. We'll be talking about it on Club Condo. And then check out all of the rest of our Survivor podcast coming your way, the B&B Survivor Global, X lost, the purple pants, podcast, Survivor News. That's all at we know Survivor.com. Then, coming up on Thursday night, I'll be talking about The Amazing Race, episode four,

which is airing tonight. I'll be talking about that with Mike and Jess on the All Big Brother edition of The Amazing Race. And on Wednesday, we released our Keanu Soto Deep Thive. Hmm. And who is that? He is a big brother contestant, and he is America's favorite player. Wow, good for him.

That's amazing. Good for Kianu. All right. There you go. And see, one last thing on October 23rd, that's next Thursday at 7 p.m. Eastern. Yes. I will be on Talk Shop Live, taking live questions. Obviously, I'll be talking about my book.

Also, would love to do chat about Survivor, of course. So please join me there. What is Talk Shop Live? They, it's a way. Oh, and they'll be selling. autographed copies of the books. Basically, it's this. It's like, you know, I guess they, I don't know if it's just for authors, but it's like an interactive platform where people chat live, they talk shop, right. And then there will be autographed copies

of my book for sale. But, you know, looking, we don't, you know, it would be fun to take some questions. I don't really get a lot. You have so many platforms for questions. I would love to do like survivor questions, obviously book questions, any other questions. So there's a link in the in the show notes to be reminded, but I'll also. be talking about it next week. In case you forget. So October 23rd, 7 p.m. Eastern, please join me at. Are you taking questions face to face or are you taking them over text?

I'm assuming it's over text that it's not a video chat, that like the, like the questions will, I actually don't know. I will be learning the platform before before doing this. So you don't know. Is there a moderator they're interviewing you or is it you're going to be solo? Rob, I like to lead with my ignorance. I come in completely ignorant and hope things work out. So that's, that's been, it's been doing pretty well for me.

It's, you know, we're real. Okay. cool anything else fun coming up for you i mean just you know next week of know it all's another week talking to my friend rob yeah um all right anything else of fun going on in your personal life in real life not podcast not book uh survivor slave blood on the clock there you know what's actually really been fun is i started a discord server basically to give to give to give more um survivor's blood on the clock tower videos if you email me at escape fishback at gmail dot com or with proof of purchase, I will add you.

It's awesome. Like, I thought this was just going to be like a way to promote the videos. It's really taken on a life of its own. There's just like clock tower games all the time. There's brand new players. I mean, I like play with them a lot.

Or I say that I got a handful of times. It's like a great community that's emerged. They have like movie nights. There's like book discussions. Like someone was like, I didn't know there were this many people like me who liked survivor reading and social strategy games. Like that's the whole,

the whole Discord. It's great. It's like, truly it's like my person. Like, there are so many people like me. Like, like it's just wonderful. It's been really cool to be a part of. Yeah. All right. Well, check that out.

Check out everything else going on. We will be back together next Wednesday night for perhaps the final episode of the Survivor 49 pre-merge. And of course, I'll be talking with Matt coming up on our exit interview on Thursday. Thank you for joining us. Take care everybody. have a good one. Bye.