RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 49 Ep 5 Recap

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 49 episode 5.

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Like they won The game a million times Well, actually, they didn't really win the game at all Surviving no at old Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. The Survivor No-It-alls are back together once again. Happy Wednesday, Stephen.

Well, it was another action-packed episode of Survivor 49. And I'm just happy people are here. They want to know what we had to say about all of this. And listen, they said that stick with it. It's going to get good. Yeah, yeah. You must have been excited today, though. All of that talk about Muckbang, based on what you were saying last week,

about all you want is Savage's eating donuts, you know, there's a whole genre for you. Well, I think that that should speak to the producers. about some of these rewards that they could give them to, you know, get the younger viewers interested in an old school muckbang for a reward. Right. Savage is eating donuts. You should propose that to Andrew Savage when you see him. Maybe.

See if we can maybe get some merch going. I think that's a pretty good idea. Of course, we're here with the author of the hit pre-selling book, Escape, Stephen Fishback. Wow. It's a pleasure to be here. very fun to, I do, I watched this season to talk about it with you. You know, that's, that's why I, it's, it's, it's, you know, why I'm here. Yeah.

Okay. So, Jason ultimately goes home. I will talk with him tomorrow. Um, do you think that if Jason had the opportunity, if you could go back and ask him, like, uh, knowing what you know now, I guess would you rather have gone into this season or would you rather have stayed an alternate with for a chance that you might have been cast on another season? What do you think you would say?

Right. I think, like, what's the chain? I mean, like, also, though... Seems like 50, 50. Things were going really well for Jason, right? Like, he was on the dominant tribe. He was killing it at the puzzles. And then, like, he just got really unlucky in a twist of fate.

Can I... Okay. No, no, you... I was going to say, can I say something that might be controversial? I, you know, listen, I'm all for being a stickler for the rules. Like, I'm a rule follower, okay? but I bet those chatty people that they kicked out of Ponderosa. I bet they would have been good TV.

I feel like we missed those guys. Is that a crazy thought? Like, I bet those people would have been, they would have been like, like, yeah, I'm sure that it was like not good, integrity of the game. Sure, sure, sure. But listen, those people that were like pretty privilege, you imagine that there are people that are not used to hearing like, hey, no, don't do that, that they feel like the rules don't apply for them, isn't that

probably going to make their, those are going to be like two probably people that this season could have used. Yeah. I mean, looking at the, although I will say like MC is a standout, you know? MC is like one of the players of the season. Nothing against MC. I'm just saying that

those those like rule breaking chatty Kathy's like those people like it wouldn't hurt to have them. You have to be pretty bad, I think, to get kicked out. You know, I only get Villains. They don't even follow the rules before the game starts.

I was just talking to somebody about what do you think? When people say they want villains, Rob, what do you think they mean? I know you love this discourse. People that talk when they're not supposed to. That's who I want. Yeah. I just feel like that tonight I was watching the episode. I was like, I bet we could have used those too.

Yeah. It did feel like you want someone who's going to like push a little bit because it's yeah. Yeah. And I still feel like, you know, Jason probably, I'm curious what he says in the exit interviews, probably is kind of like, as I said last week, we're probably operating on the back foot all season long. Here's my frustration. You know, you're talking about people breaking the rules. I thought you were going on in the same place that I was.

Why on earth did they not throw the challenge? Like truly, what was Kelly doing winning that challenge? Absolutely bonkers. They just had Matt voted off last week. Jason is going to. Yeah. Jason is going to be voted out. Like, you know that.

And, like, the numbers are dwindling for you. What are you thinking? This is a great point. Let's get to everything. Let me just tell you about what else is coming up here on R.A.J.P. I'll talk with Jason coming up on Thursday. And then we got a good one, Stephen. On Thursday, Star to me is going to join me.

Oh, that is exciting. So excited to check in with Star. And then on the old school interview this. week, we've got from Survivor Co-Rong, Sydney. Wow, that's awesome. I'm really, Sydney's one who's like, you know, why haven't we seen Sydney again? You know, like, when you're looking at the people who are bringing brought back for 50, they had the whole franchise to choose.

Why not Sydney? Yeah, I think that's what she wants to know. Yeah, that's what I want to know, too. Okay, so we've got some great podcast coming up, and of course, we have been chatting with the Survivor Glitterati all night. long over on chat BCC jump on in you're not going to believe what everybody was saying go to rob has a website.com slash VIP chat to join for free over on the people's chat chat chat BCC although it's really a BIP group chat for the glitterati but you can read it

and then weigh in on what they've got all these like sub feature they've really expanded it now they've got other like chats to like yeah so you want to open on that the Hina tribe did not throw the challenge when they basically had the sitting duck Shannon sitting there. And you know what, we, I think we're... Kelly Tribe. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Kelly Tribe, I think we should break format, really.

For the first time in the know-it-all's history, I don't even want to talk about the tribe that went to tribal council first. Let's talk about the tribe that didn't go to tribal council and their decision not to throw the challenge because I really thought that this group, this Kelly tribe, to me,

I think this is the most interesting thing going on in this season is what's going on here. I am loving Sage. Consider me now officially a Sage Stan. Yeah, I really enjoying Sage too. It's giving Sage advice to all of us

at home and she has Shannon clocked. Yeah, it was funny when Shannon gave the confessional about like, you know, Sage and I just talk about all kinds of fun things like pooping, zits, all the, all the fun things that two people talk about when they're stuck on an island together.

Yeah. And so we have in Shannon, somebody who is a gifted player, but, you know, to the degree where it's that she's just a little too obvious. Like it's a little bit of like the Caleb thing from Survivor 45 where it's like, wow, this guy is good. But is everybody here is noticing the same thing? Okay, good. Like, it's like, you can be, you could be so good that it ends up being bad.

Yeah, yeah. That, that's, that's, and I don't totally agree that she's so good because I think a lot of being good is being not obvious about your strategy. Yeah. Like, that is, like, the best strategy is when you are subtle, you can get people over to your side, you know, but when you see someone just like really hitting everybody over the head with it, that's, that's not always the best choice for you as it was not. Shannon. I will say that when you go from being in this majority position to suddenly feeling like you have to scramble for your place in the game, that scramble instinct kicks in and you know, doesn't always react so well with everybody. Yeah. Stephen, who do you want to lay the blame to on this new Kella tribe that who should have been the person who vocalizes

we need to throw the challenge to get rid of Shannon? well it's not going to be sophy they only go to her when they have something to say about food it's funny that she got her like third food related confessional this like i think all three of her most visible moments have been about food um you know the thing is like jason wasn't we didn't really see him as being in anybody's tight alliance and i do think that's probably part of it right like he wasn't in that core group over at hina that being said i kind of feel like even is the he in a spokesperson right like he's kind of our like strategic narrator is that is that correct for you i think that that sounds pretty true i wonder if is there some sort

of like competitive side of mc that mc doesn't want to throw a challenge is that something an mc has been very outspoken about the new era throwing challenges is not really part of the new era ethos it's more of an old school idea so it might not be something that is really top of mind for her yeah and she's a you know a trainer that's why like you know you're looking at these people you know Alex is blue he doesn't care um but i feel like that Alex has lost so much for Alex and that might also be a bitter pill to swallow of throw a challenge what are you talking about like all he's done is lose and the numbers are against him you know like obviously he's we see that he's safe but from his perspective he's like I

need to keep this going um obviously the two Shannon doesn't want to do it sage might yeah I don't know they probably don't want to like risk it because they know that it could be them and so it is on one of the four heinas and I do kind of think it's like probably Stephen needs to be the one to kind of step out there I don't get the sense that Christina is driving the strategy you know we kind of saw the way that Stephen and MC approached her about Shannon which I thought they did very elegantly like the way they can't we know what are you what are you feeling what are you thinking about Shannon you ever noticed really hard right yeah she's a big gamer right just kind of like like slowly layering it in there like really subtly i thought that was really good she's like

like i like i because i think christina came into that conversation and she's like yeah like i love i love shannon he's like yeah yeah but she's really playing the game hard wouldn't you say like yeah and yeah and they work and then oh no oh we don't like her now yeah yeah exactly um and again like we're not seeing that much from Sophie, MC again, business trainer. So I kind of like, I really like Stephen. And it's because I like him. But I agree. A rotten fishy to all of them.

Okay, sure. Yeah, yeah. They really, they really was a missed opportunity. And, you know, now the numbers are really not going to be with them at a merch. Well, okay. And then so to piggyback off of that, I was confounded of this seemed like, like the easiest slam dunk. And again, that I don't really get the sense on Survivor that they make the players

like really like pontificate, oh, should I do this thing that I would never actually do? It seemed like that Nate and Savannah seem to be legitimately considering, do we vote out Juan in this spot? And there was this idea of, well, Jason is the link. He is the bridge from new Hina to old Hina. If we don't have Jason, how are we going to work with the Hina tribe? And it's like, you have six and they'll have four. What do you need?

What do you need Jason for? And they've got Sophie, you know, Sophie B. So, you know. Yeah. So you basically, effectively, you know, you could have seven. And it's like even if you've like a worst case scenario, you've lost your people that are over there. And Shannon is a tight number for that group. Like, what are we even talking about?

Do you think that they were, were Nate and Savannah legitimately considering we should keep Jason as a bridge to old Hina? I feel like even if they're not being asked the question by the producers, it's just a natural thought process, especially with the shot in the dark out there. You're thinking, who else do I need? You know, who else could it be? And it's just like you're thinking like when you're in such a dominant position as Savannah is, I think you kind of feel your oats a little bit. You know, you can let them, who should I strike from the sky? You know, who should I cast my life? It could be you or it could be you.

And you kind of get a little cute with it, too. And I do think that might be happening here. Ultimately, they do certainly pick the right person. In general, I'm really against turning on your alliance before you have to. Because I think it makes everybody nervous. Now, it did sort of work out, I guess, for in Survivor, whichever it was, 45. Depends what you're going to say. You want the D1, 45?

Yes, against right. Yeah, where they voted out J. Maya. J. Maya and Seafoo. And they also voted out Seifu before they had to. You know, so it worked out for them, obviously. But in general, we've seen it really backfire when people have voted out their alliance because then there's the sort of like internal politic and kind of, I mean, maybe with these six-person tribes, it's less relevant, especially in this. Yeah.

Well, can we explore the idea of voting out Jawan and what would be the, you know, points for why that would be? a good move. And I understand Joanne, who I must have a death wish of that he took Savannah's bag and filled it with sticks and brush which was not great.

And then of all people, he took her water bottle. I would vote someone out for drinking from my water bottle. Can I tell you, Rob, this happened to me. Who? Not only it was like water bottle. It was on Cambodia.

Let me give you the context. Okay. It was really good. It wasn't Joe Anglom, was it? It was Joe Englam. And we got these cups at the Merge in the Merge Feast. And I don't want to share cups with your disgusting mouths. I don't know what's happening out there.

So I painted a little fish on my cup to make it very clear that this was not a communal cup. This was my cup. And I just saw Joe Englam walking around sipping from the fish cup. Yeah. And I was mad. And I didn't vote him out. He voted me out, but I was mad. But he wanted to vote

about. Yeah. Okay. So for Joanne, of all the cups in all of Fiji to pick up Savannah's, that was the wrong move. And it really got under her skin. Yeah.

And I do think it is like representative. Obviously, like these are the little things you fix it on when there's already a little bit of a personality clash. And someone, so I'm sure that's that's part of it as well. I can't imagine that this was the sole thing.

that, you know, but, but, um, you know, they also argued that Joanne could be the one who was most likely to flip. We certainly haven't seen that, you know, and he's had no opportunities to flip. He's just been with the group. The two guys that he met on the journey are gone. Like, there's no, there's no avenue for Joanne. And yeah, he may try to flip, but it would be such a great, like, sacrificial lamb if you wanted to do that next week.

We've seen that before where the tribes will go to the merge and then, you know, give up one of their own. And that's kind of where Sifu and J. Maya ended up going out with the rebe before was they didn't take them out pre-merge, that that was a name that got thrown out as like, here, okay, we'll give up one of our own. Don't worry about our numbers. Wasn't Sifu pre-merge? No, he was not. He was voted out in the split tribal council. Oh, and I was thinking of them as separate tribes. Yes, he said.

I was a small group. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So there was an unmerged tribe that Sifu got voted out of. Yes. So you could throw Jawan to the Wolves next week as sort of like, hey, we're not so bad. But, you know, Jawan seems like he's trying to prove his loyalty.

I mean, we saw him this week where he fixed the rock draw to make sure that Jason didn't go get an advantage. Yes. And he was the one. who I think led Jason to not playing his shot in the dark, right? Like, he's the one who Jason is talking about with the Rizzo plan. Jason votes for Rizzo. Yes. So my get, I mean, it looked like Jason was most on board with the Jawan gaslighting more than,

oh, not gaslighting, but like misdirection. Yeah. More than the Savannah misdirection. And I'm going to say, preview something here. I'm going to make a case that Jawan gets the fishy this week. I think it might be a good call. I think that there's a few other people that might be able to make a case, but I think that Joanne did a really good job this week.

And for Jason to be confident that Rizzo was going home, I mean, maybe there was more to it that we just did not see. But it seemed like that maybe he was fed a crumb that Rizzo. We got no evidence whatsoever that it was going to be Rizgod, who we know has an idol. being the person to go home. We did see Nate saying, like, just shut up to him in the challenge. So maybe like that was, and I was curious, like, why include that?

And maybe it was just because. How could Jason have been so confident? Yeah, yeah. To not play his shot in the dark. And if you think this group is all voting for Rizzo, why just play a shot in the dark. Like, it really feels like for him to not play a shot in the dark, he must have been really misled. I'm curious to hear what he has.

I'm sure he will have much to say about why he didn't play a shot in the dark. Yeah. Did he think everybody would? was in on this was going to be a complete Rizzo blindside. If he thought it was like a split vote, like he and Dwan and, I mean, how many? I mean, there were six people. Did he think that they had four votes for Rizzo? Yeah.

Maybe he thought the other group was splitting. You know, who knows? I'm really curious to hear what he thought the plan was. Yeah. And ultimately, Jason was the puzzle guy. But other than that, we really did not see too much else from Jason this season. Yeah. And, you know, it did seem like he did not hit.

swap running, although, you know, again, like, that seemed to have helped him last week where he was played a little slower. And it was just like a really close call. And again, he should still be in the game because Kelly should have thrown the challenge. Should have thrown the challenge. Is it worth revisiting? Did he mishandle last week when they went to him? And he said, yeah, you know, I'm waiting to get back together with my old Hina tribe.

But I think, like, what's he doing here? You know, he's got like, they all love Sophie. and then they've got four original Uli and that's it. Like he's not, there's no, well, you can't like, maybe you can make believe something that he could have done. Yeah, I don't think it's make believe. I think it's that you forget like what you have waiting for you out there. Like you can't, you have to pretend that doesn't exist.

And I think it was really Tyson, who I'm sure as many other survivors like articulated this, where, you know, you end up with a swap and it's like you forget your old alliance is over. you're a lot you need to figure out what the numbers are and i'm talking about from post swap in blood versus water of i got to figure out what my group is and in fairness to shannon who i said gave me the ick last week at least she's tried to build something over there on the new swap tribe where something that jason seemed like pretty content to sit on his hands for the most part yeah i mean Tyson did say that um after you know blood versus water But I do wonder if just like with the new era time frame, it's less the case.

Like you can't really form new. Like how long are they together? Like three days. Like you can't really form these like deep new bonds there. And I do think. But did they have deep old bonds? Well, right. I mean, that's right.

That's the counter argument. But I think like there's very little, you know, just looking at this setup, there's very little Jason can do where it's like four Uli, Sophie. You know, like, of course there you can always like tell yourself after the fact. Like, if only I had really like embrace them. like because I was Uli strong too, but it wasn't that kind of work, like the day and a half that he had to convince them. I mean, but there's at least a version of, oh, I was on the bottom there.

I, I, oh, I hated the chant. They made me do it. Like, it was so annoying. It was so cringe. Yeah. I hate, you know, I hated everything about them. Don't say that I love all those people. I can wait to get back to them.

Yeah. I can be. I'm the bridge to them. Yeah. Like as though, yeah. I mean, that's a silly thing. It's like there, you don't really need a bridge. You know, you're going to meet them.

It's not like, oh, can you introduce us? Yeah. It's not like a LinkedIn thing. I'll vouch for you guys. You guys have more numbers. I'm going to vouch for you and I'll tell them not to vote you off. And then we'll vote off. Checks notes.

Who's left? Alex? Exactly. So, but like, they don't need him for that. Everybody's down in the numbers. Like, then you can bring people in. Let's, uh, yeah. So, so not, not a lot of room here for poor Jason to, to maneuver.

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slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. I want to go back and revisit Sage and Savannah because this to me was so fun and it was just like a really well-told story of that we saw Shannon going to work on each person and where last week we really just saw the spiritual side of Shannon where we've seen her sort of like cultivate her approach differently. Sage articulated, okay, with Alex, she's Parvety, with Christina, she's the spiritual guru. She's probably like talking about the physicality with MC. So she's a different person to everybody and Sage is sick of it. Yep, yep, yep. So many great reactions.

So many great reactions thoughts of her just sitting there rolling her eyes, like looking on in disbelief. Should she have like done? I mean, obviously it worked out, like, by doing less, it ends up doing more for her. Should she have done a little bit more? I mean, it worked out for her. I mean, it really did work out well for her, especially that moment where Shannon goes off for a walk. I'm not sure if that's an interview, that ill-timed interview for Shannon that she had to go do while everybody else is sitting there. For her to be able to then give the, it was almost like a final tribal council moment of, by the way, at the Uli tribe, Rizzo.

has the other oh Shannon didn't tell you that oh that's because she's really still with them and I'm not I'm with you guys and so it is interesting just to sort of like do a quick numbers check so you have the four Hina the old Hina then if you have sage who's flipped and Alex that's six and then when we go back to the other side of things you have still like the four Uli that are over there and then if Shannon comes back to them that's that's five and Sophie B um is it is it six six

yes if Alex stays with the new Kalei tribe I wonder though Alex is probably more loyal to Sophie is there somebody else that I'm saying uh no I think we got it that's right yeah yeah yeah I just don't know if we haven't seen that like deep bond but and I think Alex was a little bummed to learn that Shannon was not in.

You know, you get Shannon kissing his hand. And then Steven's like, you know, Shannon's kissing everybody's hand, right? Now, it says, oh, yeah, of course. I knew that. I knew. Obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That's a tough pill to swallow. And so for these two groups, I think that were set up for like, hey, we joked at the start of the night. Okay, not that exciting. But maybe we could be heading to something exciting. Now, I do want to talk about the preview. We don't usually talk a lot about the preview. it did not look like that we are headed into merge or mergatory that I heard Jeff say something

about new tribes he said new tribes for some reason I thought merge new tribe I thought he said new tribes I mean listen I'm sure people we will be fact checked and corrected up the ying yang but I don't know if we're getting the merge in this next episode really you think they're going to do one more I I hope that's the case rather than do the merger because it seemed like I I didn't, like, freeze frame the next time on, but it looked like they still had buffs on. And they don't have buffs on when it's mergerary. But Rizzo said something like,

I need to impress all these people with the, like my spearfishing or whatever. And then like, you know, presumably that's going to be the new, the new whole group. Yeah. I don't know. Do you think they could swap again and then go into a proper merge and not have mergatory?

I guess so. It seems, I guess like, why not? No, let's say yes. Like, that would be better. That would be better. I mean, I mean, just if, again, and maybe people are like, just like cursing right now that

we're wrong. But that's why I'm hesitant to go to. Let us, let us live. Let us live. Okay. So if we hypothetically, what if we didn't have mergerary? What if it wasn't mergatory, Stephen? And just like a merge or just like two tries?

So what if, okay, much like in your second chances season, could we maybe do another, like drop your buffs again? another tribe swap, okay? And now we have one more vote and then we have a proper merge at 11. Wow, wouldn't that be fun? Something new. Rather than do a,

because what they have done in the past is that they would do a mergerary and then do a split tribal council after this. So instead of like making them go into two random tribes two episodes from now, just do it now and then get to the merge. Doesn't that make more sense? That makes, I mean, nobody likes that split thing.

You're like merge for a vote and you're split again. Listen, I don't like it. It was novel. It was exciting the first few times that it happened and it's been some interesting moments that have come from it. But I just think it makes so much more. You want to have another vote where we had the medical evacuation so we don't need to do a double elimination.

Just if they have new tribes this week potentially, then you could just start the merge at 11 and then just play out the. merge. Yeah, I mean, wouldn't that be? That's actually great. Hey, listen, I'm in. I'm in on your idea. Yeah.

So let's see. Let's see what happens. We'll get more previews. People will like freeze frame everything and we'll see what ends up happening. Although I will be disappointed if this Keller tribe doesn't get to go to a tribal council. I wanted to see it. I know they really set up this sage, although now it's so overdetermined that I kind of don't need to see it.

Like now if they went, it's so clear that Shannon would be going home. Right. And that's kind of why I want, I don't think. will because like why would you make it so obvious who's going to lose if it's if if like it's actually going to play out next week yeah if the big move like comes together too soon it ends up not being that interesting when it actually happens like in survivor 42 and we did the live show this week the episode that high gets voted out it's like high was looking like a big power player had a lot of control in the game and then by like 10 minutes into the episode everybody's

locked in okay we're going to do do hi tonight and then There was just not a lot of drama the rest of the episode because, like, the big move had already got locked in early. Yeah, yeah. That's what you, yeah. So that's why I'm skeptical that we will see the new Kali tribe go to tribal. And the new Hina tribe also, it's like very clear who'd get voted out. It would be Juan. So it's like too obvious.

And so something has to change. Yeah. I would love to talk a little bit about our journey that we had here tonight. Yeah. Interesting journey. interesting journey that there was, of course, the wrinkle where it was basically the return of the sweat task where Nate and MC, it was the MC meets the MCU, and we had these two people going back and forth and having like a nice chat and then all of a sudden there's a twist, there's a

note and it says there is an advantage hidden in the jungle. And if somebody goes and gets it, the other person has to finish it. I thought that Nate played this so well. Yeah, really beautifully. I do have one question about Nate the way about it, but like the way that Nate, first of all, turned it into a team thing,

like let's just all do this together so that I don't have to do it myself once you find the advantage. Doesn't have a lot of faith in his own advantage finding abilities? You know, I guess like he believes that MC would outpace him, but that doesn't make her necessarily more observant, like advantages is kind of like a crapshoot, you know?

It's not like who's the fastest or strongest. Yeah, I'm going to get the advantage. I mean, I think that Nate was banking on just like running out of time. So, okay, let's use up all the time. And I think that there ended up just being way more sand in the hourglass than he anticipated. And so they ended up getting the bag like three quarters of the way, the last one there and then said, hey, go look. And then he says to her, oh, we're running out of time.

And then she comes back. And it's like, oh, there's still like, uh, good, hourglasses. Let's just put it over the finish line. Because, you know, you have the person who ends up and Nate is in such a great position. He's so far out in front. Everything is in his favor. They have the numbers.

He doesn't want there to be any sort of unknown variables going into the merge. Would hate to see somebody from Hina end up getting this advantage. So it really behooves him to end up going in and just being like, no harm, no foul, nobody loses their votes. Do you think that MC made a mistake by ending up not going all out to get an advantage? I just think that it looks so bad, right? Like she knows the merge is imminent. You don't want to be annoying people or pissing them off or scaring them.

So for her to like run over there, be like, no, forget this. I'm getting that advantage. It looks super sketchy with someone who has been making a real point to build trust and to bond with you. especially with MC looking at these numbers and seeing that Hina is dwindling, you know, I think you've got to think, what are my next steps? Like, what are the bonds I can possibly make here? So I think this is the right choice. Yeah, I agree.

I think that MC ends up making an ally, earning some trust with Nate, having a little bit of goodwill from somebody from the other side of things. And so I think that that ends up being a better thing. What would the advantage have been an extra? And he would lose his vote, so she would piss him off. what would it have been an idol, an extra vote? Yeah, maybe like a steal a thing. You know, like, you know, it's just never worth the social cost.

You know, because most advantages are so situationally specific. Nate goes back to this drive. You're not going to believe what happened. MC screwed me. Well, yeah, that's the thing. It's like, that's like, it's like, then it's like public. It's like not going to be a private thing. I mean, so then she's suddenly a huge target.

The one thing I was so, I mean, I thought Nick did such a great job also. with the way he kind of worked in, like, give me some, you know, facts about you. I thought that was really elegant. When he goes back to his tribe and they say, so there was no pro, he doesn't even mention the advantage. And I thought that was like questionable because, you know, he's got a really interesting story of like, I knew MC was going to get the advantage. I thought, like, let's not have it.

But the idea that there would be no advantage at all is kind of not credible, like that it's just a struggle, you know, just a sweat task. So, yeah, I understand why he did it. I think he's like, okay, well, I don't want to make it seem like, oh, well, do you make a deal with her? Did you work with her? And I think he should have told also. I think that people's imagination is always going to be worse than the reality. Yeah, because I think that all of us know, yeah, but there's never, it's almost like the neutral box thing.

Like, there was no upside. There was no way to get a thing. Like, right. Yeah, this time they just decided not to do it. It's weird, but I don't know. Yeah. And as soon as someone says that, you're like, oh, he's going to. got something.

Yeah. There's no question. Like, he's hiding something. Like, you've got to be as forthright as you possibly can. And of course, you know, I mean, we saw Nick Sesternina struggle with this in season one of Australian Survivor. Like, how do you be forthright when like everyone's going to inherently disbelieve you? But I do think that's the, you know, that's the challenge.

Stephen, it came up again tonight about the conditions and just how everybody's brain is mush. And the show I do feel like is in a predicament where that it seems like that. It seems like that the conditions are worse than they have ever been during the Fiji era. But there is no way to actually, like, we, it's almost impossible for them to show us. They have to tell us. And you know, as a writer, you know, well, I guess it's, it would be hard to show and not tell in your book. My book is filled with pictures, just a lot of pictures. Actually, like, yeah, you're just like, look at these people suffering.

and there's a caption under it says, look at these people suffering. That's how you know. No, but it's, it's, yeah, it's hard. And I do think that it just doesn't translate. And I also think, I mean, we've, you know, been on this for a long time. Like, I want to see people running around and scrambling, not like staggering around, you know, looking dazed and confused. Yes. Should they air condition the shelters?

A little remote. Should they put like a little bit like a little mist thing, like when you're in Vegas, like you like walk through? you want enough so that people like are suffering but like not so much that they're like dazed and can't string together two sentences and they need you know the flint like just it sucks

it has to suck so bad to be out there with no flint and be freezing but it's not like it doesn't make my experience of watching the show richer wait who's freezing we're freezing now I thought it was the hottest it's ever been well but at night it gets really cold what it's both yeah it's a hot and cold Okay

So that's a You know All right I want to talk about something That maybe is also controversial Can we talk about the chickens Chickens Okay

Yeah I feel like Let's retire the chickens Because it's now We've reached a point Where the survivors

That the chickens were described As it's not a reward It's chore that we have to do and if people are not even appreciating the chickens I revised what I said about the reward last week

when Sophie complained about the fruit Jeff should have thrown it on the floor okay you're going to complain about the fruit like that is fine I'll put that in my trailer I'll take it yeah when we are at the point where we're complaining about the chickens like the survivors shouldn't get the chickens anymore

and look let me give kudos to Stephen and Alex for being the people who have to kill the chickens. But I think that for 25 years, we had people on the show that it was like, you got a chicken. And every tribe, you know,

had a J.T., had a James Clement, had a Jane Bright. There was always like some country person who was like, hey, give me that chicken. I'm just going to, like, I feel bad tonight. We had to watch these two guys. They look like they had to, like, commit a murder. Yeah.

Although, to be fair, like, that's actually a little more interesting. it and seeing the country person do it like oh yeah of course i could kill chickens all the time seeing people who have never killed chickens have to kill chicken i mean from like a like i don't want that type of interesting you know and like the fact and we've we've talked about this in the past about chickens it was one thing to have the chickens as a consistent reward and be like this is part of the show we've got chickens to retire the chickens because it's inhumane and then be like you know what screw it let's bring them back like that to me is like much worse you know don't once you've like

taking the chickens out because it's cruel to the chickens. I don't think you can bring you back. I don't think they took out the chickens because that Sia didn't like that they threw them off the boat. Oh, so it was just the boat throwing. That was the part that she complained about. Yeah. And so I think that there was always like a struggle over,

oh, that I don't want to kill the chickens. It's cruel to kill the chickens. That we have gotten to the point where the survivors are like, that's a lot of work to kill the chicken. I don't want to have to like nobody is like I want to like the chicken to live because it's my pet. Nobody is saying that. Everyone's like, yeah, I can go for

some chicken. Yeah, I'm hungry, but I don't want to be the one to kill the chicken. Yeah. So I don't know. This is not the muck bang you signed up for. It's not the mug bang. And I don't want to single out those guys either because I think if it was if the chickens went to the other tribe, I think it would have been the same thing.

I think that you would have seen like Riz God and Jowan. I don't know. I don't want to kill the chicken. Yeah. Don't forget, season 47, they gave the chickens back. I didn't forget.

I'm surprised that we didn't see them try to trade the chickens back for eggs. Is there any like country person on this, on this season? No. Wow. That's crazy. That's such a staple of the show.

How has that happened? Annie, maybe she kind of has that like vibe kind of country? I do that. I wouldn't be surprised to know if Annie has chickens. Yeah. and you know these people have but that but some of these people just have chickens just to get the eggs they're not killing those chickens yeah but yeah i mean how many you know jTs have we seen in the

new era yeah i'm trying to think of like when was the last real country person that probably someone last season i'm just like not thinking of um yeah well there was kyle but i mean i don't know if he was like uh necessarily like a farmer yeah yeah looking at these you know not a lot of Oh, okay. Well, there you go. We need more country. Put that on the list. Yeah.

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Need to pick me up. Snack back to reality with Tim's new craveable wraps available in Chipotle or ranch. Plus tax at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. What about Shannon's 2-2-2 plan? that do you think was there anything real there what is i mean it's not a bad plan right like because she wasn't proposing like hey that's our new voting alliance that's like we'll create little groups that will look out for each other you know the two blues that that's pretty straightforward who those are obviously i think for the two yellows she's thinking of mc and stephen and

then i imagine christina christina didn't get oh no she like christina she we saw that she said she wanted to do something with christina steven so who was the two from the yellow my get from no i think you're probably right that for for it's christina and stephen because she did say she had something last week saying yeah or maybe it was christina had something saying she wanted to see stephen and shannon but anyway someone said something about those three she was particularly close with mc Shannon yeah no i was just thinking of mc and stephen as a pair and then who was the other red was it sage or was it uh my guess is it savannah um that she was thinking of her number one over on the other group is probably savanna right so um anyway

I mean, it's not a bad idea of, like, creating a group that's going to all look out for each other. Yeah, you know, it's not bad. I mean, I always liked when Q came up with his idea, which was the six, I think. I don't know if it was like the, oh, yes, you, yeah, the six is like one of the iconic tribes, because at no point was the six ever alive. I don't remember if there was, it was like the power six or something like that. But it was basically like, okay, it was going to be him and Tiffany. And then it was going to be what, uh, Hunter and.

heaven and then Maria and Tim and then Tim wasn't in enough with the six and then it was Charlie ended up being the new person Maria gets to bring a new person into the six and so um but I always said that that was like that could have worked uh if everybody in it wasn't like this isn't real yeah yeah like if you could get the people in the six to believe in the six like that could be a good idea yeah and then that was like just the force of Q's personality like you need like I do love the whole thing where we get Shannon being like, you know, I got him. You know, the strategy is, is the love language on Survivor. And I was sweet talking Stephen all night, you know.

And then Steven's like, I was not a fan. I did not believe. And that's been a lot. That's been like a go-to tactic this season. You know, we had it with Jason and Joanne. We certainly had it last week with Matt and Joanne with the coordinate. What was it? It was the section.

Section. Yes. But I kind of thought that Shannon. was on to something with that because I do feel like that everybody is very especially in these like new air seasons everybody's very kumbaya everybody's very like hey we love everybody everybody's great everybody's valid everybody is wonderful and then when somebody like opens up that strategy floodgate I do feel like oh my god oh I can like we can like we can talk about who we want to go to go home yeah yeah um you're engaging finally uh so I think

do you think it worked on Alex? I think it worked on Alex. I think Alex was into it. Yes. Yeah. He totally was. Oh, you were saying,

I'm sorry. I do think it worked on Alex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so I do think that Shannon,

like, was, was, you know, cooking a little bit, but too much, burnt everything, burnt the food. Yeah.

You got to, I mean, that's a good lesson, right? It's a good, uh, you don't want to oversell your strategy. You got to be subtle. And you know,

but the, the challenge is, you know some other season you've got like a montage of like this person's going to everyone and look how they're like working the room you know look how great they're doing over here I mean we had I think we had that with Caleb I mean to be fair he was clocked

by possibly Drew but like we had that scene with like Caleb's like charming everybody and this guy so although he then immediately got voted out because of that um Kyle on 47 was country yeah that's what I said Kyle oh you did say oh I was you said Kyle

I thought you were talking about a lawyer Kyle was the country Kyle I don't see it myself but you know maybe you know you're deeper on these things you know yeah I don't really know that the Kyle that you're mentioning is indeed the Kyle I was referring to

he keeps it a buck 50 yeah yeah okay all right Stephen before we get to the Fisher Award of course how about another accolade for the novel escape Thank you so much.

So this is from Benjamin Percy. Stephen Fishback channels his experience as a reality television star into this hilarious, biting, insightful, and ultimately heartfelt novel. Thank you, Benjamin Percy. Benjamin, so let me tell you about Benjamin Percy. This is literally the guy for me who wrote the book on how to write the book I was trying to write. He wrote this craft book called Thrill Me. And it's all about different examples of both literary fiction and genre fiction.

and kind of like ways to evoke, you know, effects as you're writing. I have so many quotes from this book, Thrill Me on my wall. He's also an incredible novelist, short storywriter. He writes comic books. And so like once again, to get his praise was just like so insanely validating. This also was the first blurb I got and it was like the blurb I had dreamed of. So I think, I mean, it was truly like such a crazy honor to get this. Also on Escape News, I will be tomorrow night at 7.

On Talk Shop Live, I will be chatting live about the book and about Survivor. Hopefully, I assume people are going to come and chat about Survivor as much as the book. So Talk Shop Live. There will be a link in the show notes. It'll also be an Instagram Live and a Facebook Live. So you can try out from any of those platforms. A lot of people are listening to the podcast version of this. This is going to be on Thursday night.

You're doing this. Hold on. You've lost Stevens audio, unfortunately, at this very important moment in the podcast. It's trying to make a cliphanger, yeah. Yes. Thursday night. Is that in Thrill me? Yeah, exactly, yeah.

This is a sudden chapter break, and now we're changing perspective. Thursday night at 7 p.m. Eastern, in the YouTube show notes, there'll be a link to Talk Shop Live, but it also will be broadcast on Facebook and Instagram. So, you know, again, chatting book, chatting Survivor, whatever, you know, let's just chat, whatever else. What are other things I talk about? I think those are the big two. Okay. All right. You teased it before, but let's talk about it.

If you don't get it Don't get pissy If you don't get pissy If you don't get pissy I like that part of the song We haven't had anybody from Survivor 49 Get Pissy where they feel like Hey I

I mean first of it would be That would be quite a move If anybody so far from this season Was like hey Sophie B complains every time she doesn't get what Last last week She's got one like three, four?

Got two. And last week she complained that she didn't get one because she'd had two already. So, you know, that's sure the wealth a little bit, you know? Yeah. I don't want my torch snuffed. Yes.

Good job. All right. So, let's talk about it, Stephen. All right. You started with Joanne. You want to make the, anything else to make the case for Joanne? No, I think Joanne, you know,

as we discussed, Joon. Let me go again, my brain's just stop there. I must have a Savannah moment. As we discussed, Juan, first of all, fixes the rock draw

so that Nate ends up going on the journey so that Jason does not have a chance to get an advantage, which let's be honest, he probably would have gotten, you know,

like Jason probably would have gotten that advantage had he been on that journey. You think so? Okay, so that would have been an interesting pairing. You know,

now I'm a little man at Jawan because I kind of feel like the two alternates like on somehow like funny meeting you here and then I think that that that would have been, especially to have the two old Hina's come back together.

Again, Jawan did great. Nate did great. But I'm just saying for us that that would have been a very interesting thing where if MC loses her vote, like, who cares? Or Jason's like, I need this tonight. Like I need like, even if it's like, hey, you know what? MC, we're in this alternate thing together. But really, sorry, screw you. I got to go find the advantage.

Well, I mean, as the puzzle solver, I think he's probably really got like visually astute. And my guess is that he's going to find it pretty fast. So I think that might be a little bit of a leap. That if you're good at the puzzles, you're good at you can find the idol. I think it shows like you're like ways of, I'm terrible at puzzles and I'm terrible at looking for idols. So then by proxy is one who's good at finding the idol necessarily good at puzzles?

Is Russell Hans? I don't know. I mean, you know, but it's just like you're like, it's like of their visual, right? Like you're trying to like find something small, you know, in a big terrain. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's a different skill set. I think that, you know, like Russell had like that like bloodhound gene of that he could just like. Yeah. Find a needle in a haystack. You're right that there's a word where like MC and Jason work together to get him the advantage because he needs it so badly. And then she gets her vote back, you know. So I think this could have been the move of the move of. the episode, Joanne feeding Nate the Rock so that Jason doesn't go. Then we see Joanne legitimately engaging Jason in the decoy plan so that Jason doesn't play his shot in the dark. We also

see Savannah doing that same thing. But from what we saw, John goes along with, I'm sorry, Jason goes along with the plan that Joanne at him. And to expand on that also that for Joanne, that he is the one that really could have gotten hosed if Jason plays his shot in the dark. It It's not just that he was, like, taking one for the team and, like, really selling the plan for Uli. He also, that behooves him because if Jason hits the shot in the dark, guess who's going home? It's Jowan. Yeah. Interesting that they were so certain that Jason was voting for Rizzo that they did not cast a vote for Jouan, that there was no kind of, you know, extra vote there.

They just, they chose to not to not split their votes. Yeah. So all around, a really good episode for Jawan. And then he had a nice moment at Tribal Council where I think that Joanne has been such a fun character in this season and such a three-dimensional character in the season where you see him having fun and laughing and like can be like really up. But then also that he has had a lot of self-doubt. And in a very public moment at Tribal Council, he talked about the self-doubt that he has. Yeah, he says that he, you know, doesn't trust his own ability to answer in this picture. way because he hears all these other people answering so thoughtfully.

And then Rizzo gives this answer and Jeff says, yeah, you were right to doubt yourself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it was very funny. I mean, this is the same guy that the producers of the show had enough faith on. He gives the opening monologue to talk about how Survivor is like the first act of the horror movie, but also it has the self-doubt that he's not a good communicator. Yeah, and self-awareness to say, I know, you know, why there is this, you know, I know

where this is coming from. Like, I had this moment with the fire. you know, hopefully, which by the way, was a real problem for him. Like that, like being self-aware is one of the signature survivor skills. And he's right, right? Like, that moment with the fire was something that alienated him from Savannah. Yeah. So, okay, that's the case for Jawan.

Is there a case for Sage? Um, yeah, you can say that, I mean, especially with that moment where she brings out the receipts for Rizzo's idol, you know, Sage sits back. She lets Shannon do her thing. But then as soon as she hears from others that Shannon is, you know, that they're seeing through Shannon, she does come in out and say, like, hey, like, I've got this piece of information that shows I'm much more loyal to than she is. The downside for Sage is, I don't think she, you know, she kind of let the game come to her. She wasn't out there making that case. She, you know, if Stephen had not said, gone around and said, like, hey, I don't really trust Shannon.

Is Sage ever coming forth with this information, you know? And also, she just happened to overhear that conversation. between Stephen and Alex. So I think that she doesn't, she didn't really like push it. You know, when the opportunity off to her, she took advantage of that.

And that's great. That's great. And it worked out really well for her. Is there a world where this backfires on Sage where if we do have some kind of tribe shuffle now, okay? And now we have, we're saying like Alex and Sophie B are back together.

And now Alex spills the beans that, hey, oh yeah, Sage really hates her old. tribe. She really hates Shannon. I really feel like that the shark move for Uli could be take out sage at the first vote. Yeah. I mean, in terms of like which of the Uli's is actually the most likely to flip, it's definitely Sage because she's basically already flipped. Yeah. And so don't worry about Joanne. I think that really if Uli took out Sage, I think that that could be sort of like a Boston Robb's Oma Tepe taking out like Matt Elrod at the merge where it's also like it makes their threat level

lower. It's not like that there's six original Ouli people. They took out one of their own who nobody was necessarily like oh, Sage is my person. And I think that that could be like a really good move for them to get the merge started. Yeah, that would be a great move.

And I would not like to see it because I love Sage. Yeah. The other person would be Savannah. I mean, Savannah also engages facing in kind of this whole other thing where she tells him like, you're the bridge to the old Hina tribe and you need to go, you know, sell that and make sure, you know, because I'm, and then, and then it seemed like Savannah really was considering who to

keep it. No fishy for Savannah. She thought too long about getting rid of Jawan. Yeah. This was an easy decision. This was an easy decision. It was an easy decision. And it did seem like that it was, uh, you know. So I think it's, it's, it's fishy for Jawan pretty clearly. And Nate even seemed to like it that, oh, I'm, I'm letting Savannah, like, feel like she's making the call on this. Yeah. I mean, it does seem like, Nate is more in the visible leadership position in a way that's probably not great for Nate. Like Savannah seems to be the one who everybody checks in with. Yeah.

But Nate kind of has that figurehead spot. Well, it seemed like that he felt like, okay, good, I'm pushing some of this off to Savannah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I saw her being like, yeah, Nate, you know, I'm making these call. I mean, she said basically the same thing. I'm making these decisions, but Nate's the one who's like, you know, leading the chart. Yeah.

Okay. So that's interesting to see who of those two, Nate or Savannah, is going to be seen as the bigger figurehead, uh, once we get to whatever comes next. Yeah. But for now, Jawan, Fishing for Jawan. Congratulations to Jawan. Hey, a hard fought fishy. Yeah, true. An unconventional fishy. Yeah. Yeah. But nobody did a lot. I mean, like, you know, the rock alone would have, would have, uh, deserved it. Yeah. Okay. Anything else from this episode? I thought we got a lot. Um, yeah, once again, you know, longer, uh, longer, no, it was in the actual episode runtime. And Let's see.

Not quite, not quite. Well, I mean, in terms of the absolute, you know, minutes, no, it's pretty close. Again, like, I really love the way that Stephen and MC approached Christina. I thought they did that really, really elegantly. What a, man, those were. Any Pokemon you want to highlight? You have a favorite Pokemon? You want to shout out?

No, no, that was, they really nailed that. Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time we had a scene in New Air Survivor, where survivors we're talking about, what's your favorite Pokemon? Yeah, it actually seems like one of the things you should do if you are a nerd-inclined survivor player is like, brush up on your Pokemon, because it really is like...

Although it has not worked for anybody who has tried to bond over Pokemon. Yeah, that's true. That's what we had, we had Brando with Drew and that sort of didn't work. I don't know anything about Pokemon. It's really like a blank spot for me.

Yeah. One last thing, I mentioned Ben Percy, the writer who gave me that lovely blurb. He has the deepest, scariest voice of any of really growly voice. And he has this recording of Good Night Moon, which is the scariest version of Good Night Moon you will ever hear. So look up Ben Percy, Good Night Moon. I'll tweet out the link, but it's really quite something. It's spooky season.

It's spooky season. And Good Night Moon has never been more terrifying. Yes. Will you be donning a Halloween costume this year? Oh, yeah. I mean, of course, I mean, I'm, you know, I've got two children. So they're going as Paw Patrol. They will be Marshall and Sky.

Oh, okay. My wife, Julia, will be Ryder, and I will be the cookie monster. Oh, okay. I wanted to go my own way. Last year, I did the whole, you know, I was part of the Paw Patrol, but I was like, no, what, I need, we need to have some cooking monster. Yeah, well, Paw Patrol gets back to back years. Yeah.

We haven't exposed my daughter to a lot of, TV shows. So her like imaginative landscape is quite limited. She's got like Paw Patrol and that's about it. Okay. All right. There you go. Let's talk about what's coming up. We've got here on RJP. We're just two weeks away from when I will be back on the road in San Francisco. And we have got a huge show lined up for you on November 5th. It is about to surpass some RHAP ticket records. be there with us for a record-setting event. Go to Rob has a website.com slash events for that. And then I will be live on Friday with the patrons, taking questions and answering them

at 3 p.m. Eastern for the patrons of R-H-A-P. And then over the weekend, I will be recording Club Condo. We'll have it up for you on Monday of Chappelle and I will talk about all of the nonsense going on in the Survivor universe. in our patron feed, go to Robbins website.com slash patron for that and check out everything else going on in the Survivor feed.

We know Survivor.com. Also, Stephen, I will be talking about the amazing race. Once again, the Big Brother edition, Thursday night. I'll be live with Mike and Jess at 7 p.m. for that. And then our friends to the

your traders, Steve, and the Canadian traders. Yes. Me. Yes. We had a great premiere of Traders Canada where sometimes fill in No-It-all, Omer.

I can't, I'm so excited to watch it. I haven't had a chance to watch this because it just premiered yesterday, but like I am truly so excited. Our friend Kevin Jacobs, Venus, Vapa, are all there for the Traders Canada three kicked off. And of course, our patrons have been watching

all of the episodes. And Pooja and Scali, I have a recap, of episode number one. We dropped it in the main feed as well. And then also they'll have exit interviews all season long. And they also did some preseason previews with Kevin and with Omer. I think that maybe also with Venus. So it's lots of fun stuff.

And we get a lot of great access from Traders Canada. That's really exciting. Yes. Okay. Stephen, will you appear on Traders Canada now that you've got your Canadian citizenship? That's why I said to Omer. This is why I'm becoming a citizen. so that I, you know, I don't think I'm going to get the Traders U.S.

call. So Traders Canada, I'm available. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, fun times getting together once again. Who knows what next week holds for us? Yeah. Could be a merge. Could be a swap. Could be something else. Okay. We'll see. Anything else for you, Stephen? Nah, you know, my book. That's it. My book and Survivor. That's it.

And my family. You know, that's my life. All right. you all so much for joining us for the Survivor Know It All. We'll be back with a busy Survivor Thursday. Take care of a good one. Bye. to how to deal with your money and all sorts of other areas of your life. It's called All the Hacks, and it's hosted by the master optimizer, Chris Hutchins. This is a podcast I've actually listened to for a couple of years, and Chris is the king of life hacks, which is something that I love learning about. I'm always watching TikToks about all sorts of different life hacks, so this appeals

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