RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 49 Ep 6 Recap

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 49 episode 6.

The smartest guys around We're about to break it down Like they've won The game of million times Well, actually, they didn't really win the game at all Survive, no, et oh Yes, yes, that's right. Yes, that's right. The Survivor No-It-alls are back, and so is Survivor.

Maybe. In the words of Shannon, bless, bless, bless. We actually got a very exciting vote and an interesting outcome to talk about here with the author of the incredibly well pre-selling book, but, you know, not so well that you don't have to check it out. So close. Stephen Fishback. Rob, it's a pleasure to be here with you. Would you describe yourself as a man with a lot of power who strikes fear in people? Oh, no, I would not. I would not.

I thought you were going to ask me, am I open, am I an open-hearted person? I thought we're going to go around the room and talk about that. I think you are, I think you are a man with a lot of power with an open heart. Hmm. Okay.

Well, I'll leave that to other people to make that distinction. But I am here to talk about how I think, finally, maybe we have a season to talk about here of Survivor 49, and maybe this is now low expectations being the key to happiness. I thought this was the best night of the season. And I think that now we are in a pretty interesting place moving forward.

We have a lot to unpack. And so I'm very excited to get the chance to talk about it here with you. How are you, Stephen? I'm well. I just got my COVID booster yesterday. So I'm a little got those COVID side effects. A little feverish. So if any of my takes are wrong,

blame the medicine. Blame the COVID boosters because, you know, people love to. It would not be the first time. Right. Okay. So we are going to get into everything. And of course, we will have lots of podcasts coming your way, including my exit interview with Shannon coming up on Thursday.

Stephen, there was some big news that we got. I got a very exciting tree mail the other day. Rob is a podcast is back in the awards game. And of course, we know. reality TV shows love awards and reality TV podcasts are no exception either because Rob is a podcast has been nominated at the American Reality Television Academy Awards for Best Overall Podcasts. How about that? Wow. And you have to text in artists?

You can, well, okay, you can, you can, we maybe we'll do an interview, Brandon, see if we could get artists from Survivor Philippines, but that is one way to vote. You can text the American reality TV awards and then, you know, possessive S to the phone number on the screen, or you can go to Rob's website.com slash vote and go to page 19. And you can cast your vote there. You don't have to vote for every award, but you can vote for Rob as a podcast. So very excited, very cool to be nominated for a fan. award once again.

That's amazing. It was 10 years ago that we beat cereal. We're back. Yeah, that's like an iconic moment in, you know, Rhab lore. Our HP lore. Yes. You live streamed that, which was so great. Yeah.

All in the history books, but we have the chance to do it again here at the American reality TV awards. And then I will have a great week of podcasting. Maybe getting ready to win next year's American reality TV award as we talk with Marion O'Ketch and we'll talk a lot with Marianne, talk about what it's like to be spiritual on Survivor and so much more. And then I will get to the chance to talk to one of your favorite, Stephen, Danielle DeLorenzo, a person that helped to really cultivate your theory of everybody is the hero of their own narrative. I will talk with Danielle D. Lorenzo

in our old school interview coming up on, I'll record it over the weekend. I'll decide when we're going to drop it. Okay? Maybe Sunday. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see if you're good listeners. Rob's choice. Let's see how many comments we get on this podcast and then I'll decide. All right. So, Stephen, let's talk about all this because I really am very excited to talk about this episode and we'll talk about all of the strategy. But I'd love to give an add-a-boy to the show here at the start of it. Because, you know, we are always, you know, looking at things with very very, you know, objective eyes, as we like to think. And, you know, we're critical of the show at times.

But I do want to say that this, to me, was a bit of a throwback here. And I think that this was a great illustration of a lot of the things that I feel like that we have been missing, especially here in the new era. And this is the story of Sage and Shannon. and I think that what was really fun and interesting about this over the last couple of weeks was that we saw Sage make a decision in the game to vote out Shannon not because it was the correct strategic maneuver and we'll talk about that more I'm sure but Sage made the decision she made because of a personal dislike she had of Shannon

and ultimately that is something that we have been sorely missing from Survivor. And I think it's something that is a consequential part of the show's DNA of people who do not like each, who do not like each other, who are forced to, into this very unique circumstances to try to advance in the game and, you know, keep these numbers together. and there are various levels of personal animosity between these players. And I think that one of the things that we've gotten away from, and I understand the germ of why they did it. I understand that when we came into the new era,

I think that there was a very conscious effort, and it comes from a good place of that a lot of that personal animosity over this show's 25-year history may have come from all sorts of places of bias, whether it was maybe racism or homophobia or this person isn't fitting in. We don't like them. And that was something that the show really worked hard to root out. But I think in doing so by looking to find 18 amazing people to bring into the show. And I think that they've also talked about like, hey, we don't want the villains.

And I think that part of that was that you had people who were mean, but in doing so that now the show is often about yes I love this person but can I beat them can I beat them and that's really the decision that we see the players wrestle with in the new era so much this was a decision that was made which may have not been the best strategic move for sage but it was a move that was made because I don't like this person yeah that's a really really great observation and expressed so perfectly, as always. But just so much of what was exciting about the very premise of Survivor was this idea that you're bringing together 16 or 18 or 20 people, 24 people, from really different walks of life and forcing them to collaborate,

to scheme against each other, to live together, like huddle together for body heat. And it has become, I mean, there's been a lot of criticism. And I think you're right that, you know, sort of emerge from this good place of the homogeneity of these casts that's kind of all like peppy nice get along people um and as but i think you're right that like the biggest issue in that is just that there's no personality complex it's all become strategic complex that it's less about maybe is there one archetype of player than it is like everyone is so friendly and everyone is so focused on strategy and it's all like does this four beat this three and like yeah can I beat that person at the end and like, what's my position in the game?

What's my resume? And who has the doodads? Who has the magical devices that will give them the thing? And because they have the thing, I have to make the move. But there's so, it's been so sorely lacking where it's like, I don't like this person and I'm going to work with this person despite the fact that I don't like them or it would make more sense to work with them, but I hate them so much that I have to see them go home. And I think that that is something that I just feel like this audience has been clamoring for.

Yeah. And we're getting that, too, with Savannah and Joanne, obviously. In a very water down way. I mean, we got it probably a little bit more last week. And then in the opening of the show, Savannah's like, I love Joanne, but does he know he's at the bottom? He's like, I love him, though. This was not like at the end of this episode, when Shannon is doing her Shannon thing, hugs hugs hugs and then she goes to sage and goes this was such a great survivor moment and she goes

to hug sage and sage is going to just keep it like because i think that the difference between sage and savannah is that sage i do feel like is so authentic and i feel like that my read on shannon i'm sure is a wonderful person no doubt um that she i feel like that her story has been one of her in authenticity. And so in her inauthentic way, she was like, this was great. This was wonderful. I love this. I'm no hard feelings, everybody.

And Sage said, hey, I can't even fake hug you. How about a handshake? Yeah. That was great. I will say vis-a-vis the authenticity. We saw today that Shannon very authentically liked Sage, right? She's like, I want to work with Sage. I want to, like, re-explore this relationship.

Sage is saying she's giving her the sister hugs and I love you's and the whole hand holding and then is like literally doing like a sides to the camera where I you know I don't know if I would call that authentic to say.

Well she was authentic as an overall fair fair point Sage was authentic to us 100% that she was in her confessionals in her story she was 100% that that that is the she does not like how shannon is Shannon we saw was throwing sage under the bus

when she went to the last tribe that she was at and now all of a sudden that the numbers behoove her to work with sage that she was very much selling a different story like oh we were we were always on the same page we've always been this close and so i feel like that in her confessionals i don't feel like that Shannon has been nearly as authentic as sage as and i feel like when I'm talking about somebody who's authentic versus inauthentic, I do also mean in terms of their relationship with us at home. And that is, I think, why, one of the reasons why I was, go ahead. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I just think that that's why I think Sage has really resonated as a person that you could easily squint your eyes and imagine Sage an old school survivor. Yeah, totally. And I really loved Sage. She's been really fun. I mean, the fact that she literally can, I mean, she is giving those aside. She literally can't control her face, you know, for like five minutes to have.

That said, I want to, you know, I do think Shannon has gotten beat up a little bit, you know. And I want to, like, defend her just because I do think there's another side to that story, right? Where she made the correct choice on the previous, um, what was she was, there was, she was, she was Kelly. Yeah, she was Kelly, like the second tribe was Kelly. To set to throw, to throw stage under the bus. Like if we were, you know, as strategy critics, we would say, yes, like, your job in that situation is to throw the other person under the bus. And then when the game state changes, you can come back together. And she said, you know, Shannon said that, hey, last tribe, we couldn't really work together.

Now we have the chance again. Now we can be back together. And I felt bad, you know, because of, and I felt like there was a moment when she said, like, hey, I felt bad that this was kind of the situation in the last group. but like, hey, we're here again together. Let's make this work. So I like, again, like, I see that. I agree with you. But I don't like, I do feel like Shannon's kind of gotten beat up a little bit in just like

the commentary. And I think there is another side to that where what she's doing makes sense, like both strategically and maybe emotionally. No shade to Shannon's effort as a game player. Because I think that that was something that even came up at tribal council, what this idea. And you and I, I think, talked about it last week where I described her as somebody who I thought was kind of like a Caleb from Survivor 45 of that somebody who's so good, but everybody sees it. And I believe you said last week is like, hey, if everybody sees it, you're not that good.

And so that very subject came up. And we heard Stephen talk about it. Oh, here comes Sharky Shannon where that she was just so transparent in what she does and how she is just very much, okay, the wind is blowing in this direction. And now I'm going to cater my. approach to all these other people. So I think that that was really a well-told story in terms of like how Sage as a great narrator clocked it. We got to see it every step of the way. By luck, we had them on three consecutive tribes in a row where Sage just could not get

away from her. And I do wonder whether or not it was the correct strategic decision for Sage to have made. But I just really love this story. and the way that it was told and it was felt like something that I feel like that we have really been over the since maybe in the premurge of Survivor 48 it's something that we have just been clamoring for yeah and it was great to have Joanne there too to provide that commentary of hey if we do this the rest of the old Uli tribe is going to be suspicious of us for having turned on someone who they really love they're going to want to know why we voted out Shannon and that might go over very badly for us and I kind of foresee that because Sage and Joanne were already the people on the outs of that group

and they just need a reason, right? Like Savannah is looking for a reason to vote out Joanne. You know, she's like he's, you know, he's like listens in on my conversation like he's in the shelter when I'm in the shelter. You know, it's like, it's like some of these things are pretty thin. You got upset at one point in time. And so I think now that she's voted out Shannon,

who was one of her real allies, that will be a good reason for Savannah to justify actually voting out Juan. Okay, this is the Survivor Noah Dahls. Let's talk it through that do you feel like that while this was the right move for us and it was the right move for the producers of the show, okay? So we win, they win. But for Sage and Joanne, was this the right decision to have made? Well, we're fortunate, I mean, for Joanne, maybe, yes, because, you know, you've got Shannon

saying, let's vote out of Juan. We know more than Joanne does, right? Yeah. So I think that in general, you want to. remove the people who are actively targeting you from the game. And I do think in this case where there is this kind of layup consensus vote with Stephen and Shannon decides to target Juan, it's not a bad choice for everyone. Even if this is the thing that ultimately gets him voted out, I don't, you know, from what

we've seen so far, Juan is in a pretty precarious position as it is. Right. Better question is Sage, who is, you know, actually we see, and she can't notice, like Shannon legitimately saying she wants to work with her now. And, you know, does this, is this a bad call for her? On the one hand, voting out, Shannon might kind of hurt her ties to the old Oolie. On the other hand, she was always at the bottom of that old Ooli group. So do you want to go back to an alliance where you're already fifth place?

I don't know. Yeah. So this is a very interesting position to talk about. And I actually feel like that when I first was watching it, I was like, oh, maybe this isn't such a great move for her, but the more I'm thinking it through, I actually do like this move because I think that it really opens up a lot of other things in the game. Now, one thing to monitor is the timing of this. And I'm reminded of in Survivor, Ghost Island, that I believe it was the last tribal council before the murder. I think that they had gone into three tribes also

in Ghost Island at one point right before the merge and Damabate through the challenge and wanted to throw the challenge to get rid of Bradley. Yes, and we were like, oh, you know, Bradley and Kellyn

were close and what is going to, oh, this is going to be a whole big thing. And then you get to the merge and now there's so much going on at the merge. It's almost like, all right, this was like old news. There's not even enough time to sort of like rehash what happened.

Like, oh, yeah. turns she was saying my name. I had to go for her. Okay. Shannon is forgotten. And I do think that the merge coming up, I think, is going to be a real pallet cleanser for everybody that for Rizzo and Savannah and for Nate, yet it might sting. But I do think that they are going to have to get over it.

Because this group that we thought was really in a very powerful position coming out of last week's episode, now when we take a look at it, it's really just those three Uli and now they have Sophie B with them so that's four but if they if Joanne and sage all of a sudden are now thinking about going with other numbers that that group isn't really connected to too many other people unless that like and even Nate on the tribe that he was on it did not seem like that he really befriended that uh the other people from the original heena tribe and MC, it didn't really seem like all of a sudden, okay, she's so close with Rizzo and Savannah. You could start to see the world where the remnants of Hina and Alex and potentially

Jo-Wan and Sage could come together and they could have numbers here. Yeah, the challenge is that I think Juan is this, you know, really Uli loyal guy. Every one of his confessionals is, you know, I like this other person, but I got to stick with my tribe, you know? Yes. I got to stick with Uli. I think he feels really bonded to that group. He feels like he's on the inner part of it with good reason.

He voted with them, you know, at these tribal councils. But he was always, he was kind of like the. Yeah, he felt like always like the odd man out. And yeah, he was sort of like, okay, yeah, he's with, you know, Juan's with us. But what else does he have? And we saw him like try to open up with Jason. But we saw in Stephen, he found somebody who was another nerdy ally that he could talk to. and maybe he found his person in Sage.

And if Sage is able to sort of sell Joanne on like, hey, I have friends over here. There's other options for you. These people are cool. Like, I don't think that Joanne necessarily is so married to Nate and Rizzo and Savannah, especially I kind of could see Savannah getting the most mad at Joanne for Shannon, getting voted out more so than stage. I think that I see, I mean, so I disagree with you about it from Joanne's perspective. I don't think we've talked about it from Jowan's perspective.

I feel like we talked about it. I was talking about from Sage's perspective first. We can talk about it more from Jawan. Should Jawan have fought harder to keep Shannon? I guess if he wanted to, I mean, Jawan was the true swing vote. I think if Jawan goes to Stephen and goes to Shannon, or I guess I'm trying to think,

but here's the issue. Shannon was pushing Juan. Shannon was pushing. Like had Shannon stayed, the vote is Stephen? even? Like, I wonder if maybe this might have gone differently. I think that's likely. I think that Shannon Gates staged the ammunition that she needed to go to Juan. I think this is the right move for Juan because, again, someone's targeting him. I also think, to your point, this is going to be what Savannah needs to justify her voting him out. And I can see him being that sacrificial

merge vote, where on the one hand, you know, you have these hemas who are probably desperate to out someone from Uli and then the other hand you have these Uli's who are like we don't trust him like he just voted out Shannon you know we never liked him you know he put sticks in my bag and so let's let's get rid of him I could easily see that fate like that that that paper him I have a harder time seeing that I think that would be a very fully uh Ooli move for them to make for Rizzo and Savannah and Nate to say hey let's vote out Jawan at the mer I mean that sure like I think that they would, everybody else would say, okay, bet, let's do that. Okay, Joanne, it's all right down Joanne's name.

But then right after that, I think that it's like Nate and Rizzo and Savannah are going out after that. So I feel like that that would be a bad decision. They might be pissed at Joanne. But what are they going to do about it is basically what I come back to? But isn't it your thing always like that the merge boot is this sort of sacrificial person that the majority alliance, which I guess is no longer so much a majority alliance. doesn't mind losing.

Yeah, I think it could be, it certainly could be that. But I think in this season where unless we see like that Rizzo and Savannah and Nate really make these like amazing friends, like usually there's like one person that a tribe is trying, is dying to get rid of. And I feel like that the Ulihina battle lines are so strong in this season that it seems like would be, I think, a bad move for Uli to get rid of one of their own. I feel like that a lot of times we look. I don't think it's a bad move.

I'm just saying they might do it. Yeah, I just think in a lot of, and I know we do have the disaster tribes in a lot of these seasons, but I feel like that we come in and the tribes, I feel like are just more jumbled when we get to the merge as opposed to where this is coming in as feeling like it really is like these two sides. Yeah. So could Alex just be that? that, you know, sacrificial vote.

I really was worried about Alex tonight. I was kind of, I had in my notes tonight. Is Alex going home tonight? Like, I really was concerned about him when we started to see getting the classic personal story bump. Also thought Christina was somebody who could have gone home in this episode. I would be surprised if everybody gets together to vote out Alex. Yeah. Well, we've seen that Sophie is mad at Christina, right?

because she threw Christina's I'm sorry, she threw Sophie's name out as the decoy boot. So there's obviously friction there. We talk about this a lot. It's really hard to throw out her name.

Although I do feel with the with a shot in the dark, it's actually like a little less worrisome to now because there's a chance of the other person next to play as their shot in. Yeah, I wonder if this might be a little bit of a different season

where in these, so many of these new era seasons we've come in and it has been sort of like, okay, let's just all like have a consensus, like kumbaya, like who's somebody that's, okay, who's the Rome here, who's getting on everybody's nerves, that even his own tribe doesn't want him here anymore. Like I feel like that this is a real, like maybe old school merge that's set up where it does feel like that there are battle lines and there are two sides coming into this merch.

Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see because, you know, on the one hand, Sage for sure is not. Right, Uli Strong. We know that. She's, you know, really connected. She's throwing her a lot in with Hina. She's much more with the, you know, Stevens and Sophies and, uh, emcees of the world. An emcee told Rizzo that Sage revealed the information about his idol or beware advantage.

Yeah. Steven, I thought coming into this week that we were going to, and I would have like, I thought it was like 80, 90 percent. I really would thought that this was going to be. One tribe would win immunity and two tribes would go to tribal council. Were you thinking along those same lines? I did think that and then go down to 10 and merge at 10. But honestly, a merge at 11 is fun because they're probably not going to split the two tribes at 11. Well, I didn't think that it would be two tribes going to tribal council.

I thought that two tribes would go to tribal council and vote out one person. The Malcolm basically where we'd bring two of the tribes together. And I was just trying to think if this would be more interesting or not. And this was like, we got the great payoff to this Sage and Shannon storyline, which I can't complain about. But what if this tribal council was those four plus also Nate, Christina, Alex, and the other Sophie? I bet Nate can keep those Uli's together a little bit more. You know, I think that in that situation, you are probably looking at Christina or a Sophie going home or even the, I mean, Stephen seems to have better bonds with them. And I don't think they're going to bother with Alex at that spot.

But, like, I don't think that Nate and Joanne here are going to betray the Uli tribe. Yeah. So if you have Nate in there, you think that Nate sort of stabilizes all of that and then that they get together and they vote out. So, and then Stephen would be back with Christina and Sophie. And then I guess. And Alex who was with them. And Alex was with them.

So I do think that that's sort of setting up like kind of an interesting 4-4 showdown. and then maybe the sage flip and does sage... Oh, that could have been fun. That could have been very fun, yeah. You know, I'd hate to, like, sort of throw more twists into this, but I feel like that this was something

that was at least a throwback to something that they did a couple of times in the 30s. They did it, obviously, in game changers. And they did it again in Survivor, the Edge of Extinction, when Big Wendy went home. And they haven't done this in a minute.

And I really thought that this was going to be, like, if you have like, two-thirds of the players there. I felt like this was sort of like a pseudo-merge. So I thought it would be in a good spot to do that. But aren't we of the attitude that like let's let the merge be the merge. You know, let's keep the merge as a merge. You know, that's what's exciting about the merge.

I wouldn't have minded this. I feel like don't merge them and unmerge them. I think that that's really what we say. Doesn't that take away some of like the fun of like this is the face off? Like that episode is always like the most fun. Okay. Well, I guess that it does really put all of our eggs into the merge basket. coming up next week, which is, I think, really setting up to be a very exciting showdown.

So who do you think is the merge boot? It's really tough. I think it's going to be lining up in terms of like these battle lines of Uli versus Heena. And we know who the Surefire three Uli are with Nate and Rizzo and Savannah. And then I think that they're going to be a little bit like, hey, Joanne, Sage, are you guys still with us? I mean, like, you know, what's, what's going on? I think that they're going to be worried about them. Sophie B is with them.

So that's three plus one. Can Sophie B pull Alex back? I mean, Alex seems to have found some new allies finally. I feel like that the Stephen. So who's left of Corpina? Stephen, Sophie with an E, MC. Christina looks like she is fading. Yeah.

She's faded. Yeah, I agree. It seems, I mean, this could have been a setup to Christina being the boot next, next time, you know, just sort of, let's, you know, let's put her out of her misery and send her to, you know, sort of like send her off. Yeah, I did think that she also had a good chance to go home tonight. So there's four Hinas and then there's Alex and then so, yeah, so it's interesting. So that we have basically three Uli plus Sophie B, so that they have four. Then there's four Hinas and Alex and that's five. Okay.

And then you have the two in the in, I guess slightly in the middle, but maybe leaning Ouli is. I don't see Joanne is a loyalist. I don't see Juan flipping. His whole thing. Do you think Joanne and Sage are a pair now? You think that Joanne and Sage could go in different directions? I think he made a choice here because his name was being thrown out by Shannon. I think he's, I think his number one concern is going to be making sure that everyone on Oolie knows that he did not, you know, instigate this.

Let me see. I might have to like whiteboard this. in terms of like where this is going to go but hear me out okay so you've got the three uleys plus sophie b and then if joan comes home now they have five and now the question is going to be even if sage goes back okay so that would leave them with four plus Alex and Sage can Sophie B pull Alex back could this be a tug of war for Alex next week I think absolutely she can do that. And because we haven't really seen any really deep bonds for Alex.

We've seen him getting along, right, with the old Hinas when, you know, in that first swab. But I don't think we've seen him having really deep ties to anybody. And again, like, this is the Rob C strategy. Vote out Alex here, right? Both sides vote out Alex. I think that Sophie B, I think, would probably want to use him as a number rather than vote him out unless he is like firmly like says like hey i'm heena strong these are my new people like i think

that's the only way that he sort of like overplays uh or like really like uh you know you know it makes himself very well known that he's on the other side and maybe they go ahead and try to shoot the person as the swing man stephen i want to talk about that this especially with sophie b being set up as a person who could be a very big power player coming into this next vote we have to talk about this advantage that got found in the episode tonight. Now, to me, I was a little bit bum-puzzled about all of this, of that we had the three tribes, split-ins of random tribes, we saw one group go and look for an advantage, and Sophie B goes out and finds the most powerful advantage potentially um of anything and it has knowledge and power has not been

active in the game since survivor 43 i thought it was pseudo retired but it had shown up it was available for eva i believe to uh get as a advantage like had she played the game when she snuck out of camp. Knowledge's power is back in the game for the first time since season 43. Yeah. And again, I think they do this just so that the contestants are aware that it's something in the game, right? Because they don't want people oversharing essentially about their info, which, you know,

kind of feels like it's manipulative, but like, whatever, that's fine. But like they do this. It's like, hey, this could be out there. Watch out. You don't know. I think that's some of the fun of the game. But did you find it odd that knowledge's power was just hidden? sitting there at one of the camp it wasn't even at the merge camp i believe that that's where james

jones found it like at the well in season 43 i mean was there a knowledge's power hidden at all three of the tribes was it just sort of like luck of the draw that whoever got new heena was at a beach that was going to have access to knowledge's power i'm assuming there were also advantages of the other two beaches i don't i can't imagine it was just like one beach that they put one advantage on and it happened to be the strongest thing in the game yeah I mean, you know, idol is pretty powerful. Okay, so I just thought that that was a little odd that that is, I guess maybe they feel like, okay, well, it's not a full idol, but it basically is.

Well, only because, you know, Rizzo was so open. And there's also social, huge social downsides to playing it. It's not like, you know, some like, you know, it's not like the Tyler Perry idol. You know, there's, it's a more like nuanced, you know, tool. Sure. I think the Tyler Perry idol is, for all intents of purposes, retired. I don't even think that that's an active thing still in that. the game.

Yeah. But it was interesting. You know, she knows where one of, it has never been played successfully in U.S. Survivor. Yeah, right. I believe that's correct. Yeah. I mean, there was some very fun knowledge as power shenanigans in Survivor.

What I've always said about it, it's going to give you good TV, but I think that it is a slippery slope in terms of what it does to the game. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, yeah, it's, it's interesting. Not my favorite thing, but I think, you know, it keeps people, keeps people on their toes. Yeah. Okay. So what are the known advantages that are in this game right now?

So we know, and Sophie B is an interesting person to have this because she was already a person who was trying to steal Alex's idol earlier in the season, was trying to vote Alex out with his idol. So she is a very crafty player to have this. She knows about Rizzo having an idol in his possession. And now we saw MC come clean. to Rizzo about his idol that he has, but she did not say that she has her idol, correct? Yeah, she didn't say anything about it.

And she said, in fact, she said, like, I don't think we, I don't know, I don't know if anybody found it. You know, she, because I think that Rizzo straight up asks MC and M.C says, I don't think anybody found out of that. And what's the deal now with MC's advantage, her Beware Advantage, where she is going to lose her vote, you know, until she loses a immunity. challenge to go find the idol but now the merge has happened she's never lost the challenge is she just going to after the first individual immunity challenge at the merge have to go

and go look for her idol wasn't there a similar situation with hunter was that like at all the same where like there was a merge happening and then he had like the aware advantage and they're like you got to go find this now i do remember that um i don't know if but it wasn't an issue with him having to have lost the challenge at least i don't think so So, you know what? I think it, yeah, it was sort of like a Fagasy thing where it was like, oh, I got a note. And it said, I have to go do it before. I have to go do the thing.

So maybe we'll see that with MC next week. Yeah. That is the likely scenario. And then nobody ever, oh, you know, Alex had the blue. Yes. And then he played it at the tribal council where Jeremiah went home. Question for you, Rob. Should, so obviously it worked, this worked out very well for old Hina with Shannon going home,

who was not just an Ouli, but kind of part of that. that core group. That being said, should new Uli with Sophie, Christina, Alex, and Nate, should they have thrown the challenge here? I mean, there's so, everybody's given confessionals about like, oh, it looks like it's going to be a showdown between Hina and Uli. But nobody's actually doing anything to like put that, you know, for that showdown to resolve itself more favorably for them.

Yeah. Do you think that that's what Christina was trying to do when she couldn't put the poll together? I don't, I don't know. I think we would have gotten a confessional if that was a throw. I mean, if you're going to be throwing the challenge, you can't have Nate on the table maze. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if maybe that there was been some incentive there.

But maybe like Christina seemed a little checked out. Maybe Sophie with an E would have potentially been thinking about that. Alex, I'm not sure if he feels secure enough about his position to be able to do that. I think you'd really need to have like two or three people who are really locked in to be able to pull off. that move. You're right that that would have been a much better outcome for, it did work out okay with Shannon going home, but it would have been a better outcome to take out Nate.

It's just crazy to me. It's like the game is not the obstacle course. The game is Survivor. Throw a challenge. If you're so sure that it's going to be this versus that, you know, which everybody seems to be saying, do something about it.

Take ownership. See, I think that Nate is a possibility to be sort of like an old school merge boot. just like as this sort of come i don't know we've seen him be so socially adept you know even today where he was you know i'm going to give them true information sure but they questioned it so that i can lie to them about jason vote i just feel like he's so like so good socially that i just can't we haven't seen his like fatal flaw that's going to call you know lead to him being the merge vote yeah but i think that if you're looking at it of hina versus

Uli, I mean, I think that you would think that he is the leader of that group. I don't think that you would look over and suspect necessarily that Savannah or Rizzo is that person. And I think that that would be like an easy person to get everybody to feel like, okay, Nate is the person running the show. And on top of that, they know that Rizzo has the idol. So it's like we're going to put the votes on Nate because we're convinced he doesn't have an advantage to play.

Yeah. I mean, Nate is probably hurt from just being. so tall. You know, he's just so visible. Yeah. You know, truly, and like, Savannah's really short. Like, you just like literally, it's like, tall poppy syndrome. Yeah, literally. As Rezo said, a man with a lot of power does strike fear in people. Yeah. So maybe if he is perceived to be the leader of that Ouli tribe,

which it seems like he is, then he would be the merge vote. Stephen, do you feel like that next week, and I don't want to jinx it, do you think mergerary could be maybe at least taking a season? off? Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice? Because now we're down to 11, correct? And so to have a mergatory vote where somebody, like, you need, everybody who is here is going to make the jury. Assuming that it's a final three with an eight-person jury like they've done for every single season of the new era, I don't know how you would have a mergerary where whoever is going to get voted out next is going to make the jury. Yeah, yeah. I think that's right. So you think they're going

to get buffs next week? I have no idea. I think so. Yeah, I'm so bad at this stuff, though. I didn't slow down the preview enough to see. But that'll be like, listen, we'll have a little bit of a celebration next week in San Francisco when we are watching a real

honest to goodness merge. And you'll be hobnobbing with the glitterati while I'm holding it down. The people's podcaster. Do we have public? Like, who I'm going with? I don't know if it's officially announced yet. I don't know if that person has confirmed. Sam will let us know.

But next Wednesday night, be there in person where maybe for the first time in the new era we'll see an old school merge happening in Survivor 49. The Glitterati will all be there as we are potentially for the first time in Rob is a podcast history going to have a four-digit crowd with us. Wow. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. That's amazing. Uh, a capacity, almost capacity crowd coming up in San Francisco. Tickets are available, where we're in the biggest venue that we have ever been at. So you can be there with us for our record breaking crowd, Rob is the website.com slash events.

And according to Sam, uh, that we can announce that next week, Stephen Fishback will be on the Survivor Nodals with your friend of mine, Owen Knight. Yeah, we'll just be holding it down while you're out there. I mean, San Francisco is a very fun town for. survivors. It's like I feel like you've got a lot of you know fun people there. Franie's there right? Yes, many many alumni will be there and so you will be very impressed with everybody who's turning out for our show in San Francisco. Let's talk about some of these other groups. Stars are out while Owen and Stephen have to. I don't think star is going to be there,

but there will be many alumni there. Okay. Let's talk about this other group. So we have the brand new Hina tribe, which is MC, Sophie UB, Rizzo, and Savannah. Right. You know, Rizzo and Savannah,

they have been together this whole time. I do feel like that really clarifies, you know, you're, that those, like this getting swapped successively with people. I was with Jeremy and Kimmy on three tribes. And we were tight. We were really tight.

Because, you know, you just like, this is my group and this is who I'm working with. You know, it really like cementes those bonds. Yeah. Especially when you have to go to. You know, it's been interesting, though. I feel like that the show has not really explored the bond and the relationship between Rizzo and Savannah. We have gotten very little about it.

It's true. She did jump into his arms after they won the challenge. But I feel like that they've had very few scenes together. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, yeah. There is obviously a trust level there. I mean, Savannah was the one who went and when Rizzo had the idol that needed to be dug up at the well. She went ahead and did it for him.

There doesn't seem to be like any question of the relationship. It's just been a relationship that I feel like that we have heard about a little bit more than we've seen. Yeah. I mean, we've seen Nate and Savannah together a little bit more. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Rizzo got the chance to Don. the Survivor Fishing Gear for the first time and he said this is this is my

Ozzie moment imagine Rizzo and Ozzie like could you even could you even like imagine what that would be like yeah I feel like we saw that season that was a Survivor 23 right it's been a minute since we've had a survivor try on the fishing gear and say like hey well I don't know what I'm doing yeah um Very fun. That was fine. It was fun and fine. The Riz God of the Sea?

Yeah. That's fun. Yeah. Snorkel confession. Tell me about how MC ended up playing this with Rizzo. Did you think that there was anything gain there? I mean, it's so hard to say. You know, you do wonder if this ends up hurting MC because it hurts Sage.

And Sage has been showing that she's willing to work with old Hina. That being said, like, is this the kind of thing you wait until you lose the challenge to share? You know, like, oh, or does that look scrambling? Yeah, I wonder necessarily like, uh, because you know that like if you make it through this one episode or you think it could be emerged, right? You don't know, but you think. So is it too soon to share the information you have or does it make sense to do it

before you lose the challenge? I mean, you know, she knows. She knows that if, you know, they lose, she's going home. Yeah. I guess what does it hurt her in that position where I think she's sort of like just trying to like get through the day and now she does know that she has an idol. MC most likely would not go home. I guess there is that chance that it ends up getting back to Sage and then Sage says, hey, why did you narc on me to Rizzo? And then Sage ends up being mad.

But I think at that point, like where is Sage going? Right, right. Well, no, but I mean, she might go back to Uli. I mean, I guess at that point, though, she's already, the whole point is that she's kind of like forced over to, you know, I just think that, you know, you want to protect. I don't know, is just giving up that information before you have to is, I wonder. I mean, on the other hand, I kind of thought that MC was going to reveal to Rizzo of like,

hey, just so you know, I also have an advantage, which I don't know if that would have been a great move, but especially because that then that's now with you have Sophie B with the knowledge is power, obviously. that that ends of creating more complications. So I don't know. I think that maybe does it, is there a rapport now with MC and Rizzo? It didn't seem like that there's a strong one.

Right. And I mean, this is like a day that they're together, you know, it's how long is it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I will update my, you know, I'm doing it in real time. I think that now if, I think I probably would have held on to that information. Because if we are setting up for this showdown and we are going to have one of these like big, old school like Kagyon type merge votes where it's like five people on one side five people

on the other side and maybe one person in the middle as a swing vote where now we're going to put our votes on like we're going to put our votes on this person because we know where the idol is now now you've alerted Rizzo to now okay oh now they think I have the idol but if we play the idol on this person then we're going to like Rizzo may have like not been playing the idol for Nate in it in some scenario but they're they're not going to play the idol on me so now i haven't chance to stop it so i think that that probably was a little too over eager on mc's part to share that information yeah that's that's my perspective i think i think you hold on to it until you actually need to to reveal it because there's not anybody else here who knows that sage told

them right like she's the only one who has that info stephen let's then talk about what's going on over on the new Keletra. Nope, nope, no, new new Oolie, new Oolie, yeah. And so we talked about it a little bit, you know. Alex, Nate, Christina, and Sophie. I think this was an episode that we got the most

Sophie, Sophie with an E strategy talk. Yeah, I think this was her first confession not about food. So congratulations. You know, welcome to this. Yes, yes. She did say that she thought Nate was feeding her information. I thought that too.

I noticed that too. Yeah, and she did say that, you know, and Alex to describe her as a tough cookie. Oh, my gosh. Wow. That's got to be. They know. The producers know what they're doing. This is not by chance.

So, yes. So Christina suggests that they try to lorinate into a false sense of security and that she should do that and Alex should do that. And then Sophie, of course, correctly into it. that means I am the decoy boot, which nobody wants to be. Nobody ever wants to be. And that creates some friction between Christina and Sophie. You know, Sophie obviously has felt that she has been on the bottom for this whole time. And now she probably felt coming into this new Uli tribe where she's in the, you know, for the first time kind of in the majority here.

She's got a plurality with her and Christina, that this was going to be her chance to have a little power. And suddenly she's the decoy. Christina has had a rough season I feel like that in the preseason there was I know you didn't follow the preseason stuff closely it's like there was a lot of hype around Christina this is the no nursery oh boy she has like off the charts that everybody wants to work with her and it's been a tough stretch we have not seen or heard a lot from her she was the one person was like you know who's really genuine and authentic Shannon I love Shannon everybody I just think she's playing it a game a little hard. And then also we had her in this episode tonight just basically collapse at the, and again, we saw how hard it was for Jeff. But Christina seems like that she is in rough shape physically. And then also, we ended up that she's thrown out Sophie's name as the decoy vote

before they even lose the challenge. Yeah. Again, like I think that's something that you really do want to hold back on. You know, it's not crazy for her to say, let's all make Nate feel comfortable so he doesn't play shot in the dark. I mean, this is the fun of the shot in the dark, right? It pressurizes this moment where you need to trick the person who is the target into not playing it. So suddenly, you kind of have to have a person who is the odd man out here. Okay.

And then Nate manages to get through it. I mean, Nate has done a really good job all through the season that it seems like that Sophie wasn't necessarily buying what he was selling. but I think in terms of like how well the game has gone for Nate, I think hard to imagine things have gone better for Nathan through the pre-merge, even though I do think there's a chance he's the merge vote. Yeah, yeah. I think that's yeah. I mean, and he's played so beautifully.

Like every scene we see him in, he's being really thoughtful and deliberate and, you know, strategic in the way he uses his social bonds. So, I mean, he's just like, and also he's just a delight to watch. I really, I really love me. Steven, I have a question for you, a literary question that I want to tee up for you. And of course, that, listen, who better to ask a literary question to than somebody who got this incredible quote here?

Stephen Fishback writes with great energy and humor as well as a deep understanding of human longing. So who better to ask a literary question than somebody who gets those kinds of accolades? And that was from Jonathan Saffronfor, who was this enormous breakout star, I guess, like the real first literary star, I think, of our generation. So, like, truly quite like an insane honor. And, you know, deep understanding of human longing, you know, really came from Survivor when I would just spend countless nights fantasizing about brownies. Yes. Okay. Yes, I think that's who amongst us haven't spent many nights longing on Survivor.

And, of course, you can see more where that came from when you go to Stephen Fishback.com and pre-order escape. So, Stephen, Joanne, back in episode number one, described the opening of Survivor as Act 1 of the horror movie. We haven't seen the monster yet. Things are still developing. And it's Act 1. He said that we are headed into. to act two of the game. And as somebody who must be familiar with the three-act structure, can you tell us a little bit about like, where are we in the story as act one is closing? Yeah, I think that's right.

Like, that's actually pretty good. The act one, act two, act three. Act one, you're setting the scene. You know, you've got your people in their normal life. And then there's an inciting incident. They're sent to this island where they have to vote each other out. Boom. Then, of course, like, they're all confronted with problems.

and they're in there. Oh, so you feel like, hold on. So you feel like that act, the end of act one is still the start of the game? Because I kind of feel like that we have our inciting incident. I mean, I guess the exciting incident is not. Is Shannon going home our inciting incident? What is the inciting incident?

So act two, this is going to get a little complicated. Act two is typically right. I mean, if it's a three X structure, not a five, five X through or four. I think three, yeah. Act two is kind of where everything comes to a head. There's the climactic moment. And I do think that probably is. emerge, right? Where the big conflagration or the big conflict happens. And then, you know,

you've got the sort of back half of act two, which is the problems closing in. Our protagonists who think they achieve their goals now are beset with new issues. And I'm sure that's going to be, you know, oh my gosh, we got out Nate or we got out whoever, Alex. And now we're turning on each other. Oh my gosh. The problem is closing in. The truth is revealed. Darkest hour, Dark Night of the Soul is the transition between Acts 2 and 3. Can they do it? Typically, we see that in, I think, either the episode before the finale or the finale itself, where the protagonist looks like things that are on the ropes.

And then, of course, I think Act 3 is basically entirely in the finale where they turn on the juice and power through to the wind. Yeah. I'm trying to think of if there's a survivor season where we have like a really, like, faithful three-act structure for a person. I wonder maybe if it's like Marianne and Survivor 42. Maybe as we head into talking to Marianne, where she basically has, it's, you know,

the opening of her story and I'm here, I'm doing it for the weirdos. And then ultimately, you know, she ends up going into this big merge, where she looks like she's going to be the person who gets voted out. And then all throughout the second act, she is very much like trying to find her way in.

and then basically things look very bleak for her. People have counted her out, but then she ends up getting out of the game. We're playing the extra vote against Omer and then goes on to have the great final tribal council. It's not bad, right? That's pretty good. That's really, really good.

Yeah, and then she's got this, like, big. So getting rid of Omer is the Dark Night of the Soul, or is that like... I think right before that, I think right before, you know, when it looks like that Omer isn't working with her and she has nowhere. She has to work with Romeo. That's how bad things are. Wow. Oh, right. Yeah. That's right. You were really sure that Romeo was going to, like, bring everybody together. Yeah. Okay. All right. Stephen, you know what time it is. Let's get into who's going to win.

As much as I'd love to win an American reality television award. That's not the award that we're about to talk about now. All right, final Fishy of the premurge, Stephen. Yeah, probably. I guess that's right. This is a tricky one because obviously the people are shouting that they want Sage to win the fishy. But did Sage play the best game? Like, was this a good move for Sage? I think we know that it's not because we actually see.

I still think it is. You think it is a good move for Sage? Okay, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Why is it a good move for Sage? I think it's a good move for Sage because that Sage did not have a home with the Uli tribe. Maybe you can maybe paint a scenario where Sage sticks with the numbers and sticks with Nate and Rizzo and Shannon and Joanne and ultimately plays this all the way to a sixth or seventh place finish in the season. Sage has done a great job of in throwing Shannon to the wolves, although she described herself as a wolf baby in the previous episode, she now has a lot of options for her.

in the Hina tribe. She maybe has a new number one in Jawan. She has allies across the board on Hina in Alex and Stephen and MC and Christina and Sophie with an E. And I think that she could be a valuable number. Now, she could have it all undone if we end up with Jawan going back to Uli and if Sophie B can pull Alex back across the idol.

Sage could be looking at following Shannon out of the game, although she would make the jury and Shannon would not. But I do feel like that there was no world in which Sage sticking with Uli ends up winning her the game. I do think that there is a lot more variance. So she was headed to a certain losing outcome sticking with the status quo. She has shaken up the snow globe sufficiently and had a great episode. One we will not soon forget by voting out, Shannon.

And that is why I think she should get the fishy. All right. I'm taking that into an advisement because I do think the people want the sage fishy. And we have to consider the Vox Populi. That said, I don't see the Joanne Sage upside as much as there being some new number one. You know, Juan, this is like a day. John voted once with Sage. We've seen him really be kind of the face of the Rizzo-Savanna-Jewan operation.

I think even in the very beginning, Juan thought he was with, you know, Savannah. and I think that that probably is where he considers his home, even if we see that that is not really his home. I also think that historically in Survivor, being the bottom of a top alliance is not a terrible place to be when there are a lot of other people, you know, in the game still, where it's like you're not just going to get picked off because she can be that last, you know, she can be that flip,

you know, that swing vote who controls a little bit of the tribe here by kind of blindsiding Shannon she sort of makes you know declares herself a little bit more although to be fair like Shannon targeting Joanne gets her a lot of cover because Joanne will then go back and say yeah Shannon was targeting me and save me so I am not so sure that this was a good move for her that's not sage than who well that's that's the real problem there's two other choices right one is Joanne who gets out someone who's

targeting him that's pretty straightforward right Shannon wanted joan gone and joan voted out Shannon that's like pretty one to one And then the other choice is Stephen, who is the obvious boot here. He, you know, swaps onto the new KLA tribe with three former Uli's. He is the only former Hina. And he's so charming, you know, doing the chest bumps with Joanne and building bonds with Shannon. And, you know, he's got a thing with Sage. Nobody's even talking about him.

Everybody's figuring out figuring out how they can save Stephen. So, and his name is Stephen, although with a V. So that's, I honestly think it's between. Sage and Stephen, but I do think that, you know, Sage really laid out her plan. She found enough information from Shannon to basically arrange her ouster. She did a great job of keeping Shannon on her side so that Shannon thought that Sage was with her. And for that reason, as well as the Rob Sessionsino endorsement, we are giving the fishy to

Give it the sage. Think of the fan cam, okay? The people in the streets will be pre-ordering in joy. Listen, if that's what leads to the pre-order. Yes. No, I think that this was, and the way that you summarized that was so fun, because to me, this was a classic know-it-all's discussion of, here's Rob, attracted to the sexy sizzle, flashy move. Wow, that was exciting. And here's Stephen, And like, but was it a smart move? Was it a move that is going to ultimately help improve your odds of winning the game? Did you do something fun and flashy just to do it or did it make sense to win the game? And to me, I feel like that over, you know, years and years of doing this podcast, that's the dilemma that we keep coming back to.

Yeah, you know, Hollywood Rob Sesternino over here with the Ghibnambi. Going back to the three amigos, you know. Yeah, yeah, listen, if you do something fun, I'm going to like it, okay? Yeah, well, it was fun. It was fun. Yeah, if it's good TV, you usually can sell me. Yeah. Well, listen, you sold me, and so Sage wins the fishy.

Okay. All right. Steven, anything else about Survivor 49 that you'd like to talk about tonight? Not really. I feel like we pretty, yeah. Yeah, this was a great chat tonight. Went through everything. Okay, let's talk about what else is going on, of course, that you know where they love talking about Survivor and Survivor 49 over on chat, BCC, but I have to mention what they're saying about the amazing race, where the girls are fighting, and then, of course, Big Brother, it was such a phenomenon.

Chat, BCC, if you're not on board yet, what are you waiting for? Rob is website.com slash VIP chat to join for free. Next week, I will be in San Francisco. If you want to be there with us in person, of course, we also will have a patron meetup coming up. on a Tuesday night, so I am looking forward to seeing all the patrons there in person. Go to Rob's website.com slash events for all the information. Then on Friday, I'll be doing the patron Q&A at 3 p.m. Eastern. Have a great time each week talking with the patrons,

answering all your questions about Survivor. I'm sure we will have many as we speculate what is happening at the merge. Then this week, I will be en route to San Francisco, but Chappelle will. We'll be joined by Brandon Donlin for a special edition of Club Condo over on Patreon. Rob has website.com slash patron to check out all of the benefits you get when you become a patron of Rob has a podcast. And then, of course, we have all the other podcasts for you in the we know survivor.com feed the B&B, Global Survivor, Why Blank Lost, and Survivor News. Stephen, the amazing race, has been super exciting this season, all big brother contestants. And as I mentioned, lots of drama after last week's double U-turn.

I'll talk about it all on Thursday night with Mike and Jess. And our friends are on The Traders Canada. You can check out Omer and Kevin and Venus and all of the fun when you go to check out what Puyah and Scali are talking about over on The Traders in our we know The Traders. You also listen to Puyah and Annabelle talk about celebrity traders UK. So much traders going on in the world, Stephen. It's a global phenomenon. Yeah, it really is.

And the Canada one is so fun. I really, I haven't seen the second episode yet, but really, really good. Oh, you watch your brand new countries edition of the traders? As a Canadian, it is, you know, I sort of. Yes. Well, as a Canadian, you're also obligated to say, go blue jays. yeah sure and that's probably a team for a sport

or like just like like like like just like the birds they're going to revoke your citizenship if you say that yeah it is part of the oath you have to swear allegiance to king charles and then you also have to swear allegiance to the blue jays okay all right stephen what else is coming up for you so the only thing i want to say is you know come if you have preordered escape send me a proof of purchase it to escape fishback at gmail dot com the discord and i'll invite you to our discord which is There's just like games all the time of blood on the clock tower, including new player-friendly games, really people are taking their first steps who have like always wanted to play the game

as well as like more experimental scripts and crazier games. And then it's just like a great community. There's, you know, ask the author questions, which, you know, there's movie nights where people are like, you know, getting together to watch movies. And it's just like super, it's like a nice, lovely community. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Check out everything that Stephen has going.

on as well. We'll be missing you in San Francisco next week. I'll be missing you here on the know-it-alls, you know, but, but, you know, I'll have Owen. Think of all the things that will have changed in Survivor by the time we get back together in two weeks. Wow. Crazy. Someone will have been the merge boot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's exciting. All right. Well, fun stuff tonight. Thank you, Stephen. I know you were not feeling 100% tonight, so I appreciate you powering through. Like Christina. Yeah, that's right. That moment really spoke to me. That's like the, you know, the medics were checking Stephen right before.

They said, oh, with all the excitement of the podcast and this exciting episode, he's the, he just has a too much adrenaline right now. Yeah, I had to breathe into a paper bag. Mm-hmm. Okay. We're back and looking forward to it, very busy Survivor Thursday. Take care. We have a good one. Bye.

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