RHAP: We Know Survivor - Know-It-Alls: Survivor 49 Ep 7 Recap

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Today, while Rob Cesternino is hobnobbing with the glitterati, Stephen Fishbach discusses Survivor 49 episode 7 with special guest, Owen Knight.

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Well actually They didn't really win the game At all Surviving no at old by the no-it-olds Yes, that's right. The know-it-alls are back and better than ever, because today, know-it-old. Yes, that's right.

The know-it-alls are back and better than ever, because today, Rob's testimony, though, is hobnobbing with the glob. Litterati at the San Francisco event. So I am joined by my Knight in Shining Armour, Sir Owen Knight. Welcome, ding, I hit the bell. There we go. Hello, Uncle Stephen. It's so good to see you.

Honored to be back here on the know-at-alls. It's truly just like so great to be a part of R-Hap and just to be here talking about the season. Like, as you know, Sammy and I welcomed our daughter about six weeks ago. So I've been a little bit out of it, like been more passively taking in the season so far but we're on a nice stretch here these last two episodes i'm really excited to talk about it with you how is your sleep better than you would expect lenny's a good sleeper she gets like four or five hours at the beginning of the night and then she'll wake up give her a bottle she'll go back to sleep

for another three-ish hours and uh so so i'm getting more it's it's interrupted but it's good i'm content okay tonight we have a fully lucid owen here to talk about what i think was the best episode of the season, you know, people were very excited about last week. I was super excited about this week. This was a real merge. Like, when did we get? When was the last time we got a real merger at night? I guess it must have been pre-new era. It must have been winners at war. Like, none of this mergatory BS. Like, we're getting a full. No one's getting robbed from making the jury. Of course, someone just started weed whacking right outside my window. But I really enjoyed it. I loved seeing the push and pull. I just, I love the build up to try.

tribal council, and I had a lot of fun with this one. This is what we want from the merge. This is exactly why the merge episode has always been the best episode of the season and why I think merger Tories loses some of this intensity. And splitting into groups loses some of this intensity because all season long, we've been seeing these alliances build up and these factions and these rivalries. And what you want from the merge is everything exploding suddenly. this group has to choose a side

and they're going that way and this group thinks they're on top but they're not and this other like faction is emerging and what's going to happen with that? To me this is exactly what I want from a merge episode. I do think this is missing.

I'm so glad they went back to this. Where are you Owen? Because you lived the life of Mergatory. You've got, you know, and you new era people are all new era boosters. Are you able to see past your own blinkered biases to the glory of this merge episode?

I'm anti-emergatory. I've never purported. to support it, I think it's so much juicier when you have all the targets available and you have just like a real survivor merge happening and real action happening. And like you said, it's just like the lead up to it. It's just been simmering and simmering. And now you finally get to see it come to fruition without all the guardrails of six people being safe or whatever shenanigans are happening. It's refreshing to see like this is what survivors about is just that that pendulum swinging and jockeying for position and seeing if your social bonds you have built

with someone like a Joanne or a Sage will come out on top of the opposition's relationship with Joanne and Sage. And it was it was very, very gratifying to see it come and see a plan come together. And, you know, I can't help but root for the bottoms up for the underdogs or whoever feels like they're the underdogs in the moment. And yeah, I would never defend. Mergatory. I really think this is the way it should be at a merge. I mean, you think about like Cagion's merge episode where Sarah Lucina goes home. And like it's, it's some of the best survivor that happens. And I feel like it's been neutered over the past eight seasons to where you don't get that same level of gameplay. You don't get that same. It's like it has training

wheels on it when you've got like limited choice, whereas this gives the players full agency to explore their options and try to put themselves in the best position. going into, you know, the next stage of the game. Now, do you think that this format change was planned in advance, or was this just because of the medevac that happened earlier on, and they were kind of forced into this more limited group? You got to think it probably was a function of Jake getting medevac, so it does make me wonder if someone needs to get bitten by a snake every year.

And hopefully, you know, Jake's loss is our gain in that production gets to see maybe the reaction to this, or get to see how this round ended up shaking out, that it is objectively, well, not subjectively, in my opinion, more exciting. I do hope that they take a look in the mirror and going into 51, 52, hearing some of the clamoring for two tribes, for a traditional merge, for some of these old-school gameplay elements

that have been missing for the past eight seasons. And I think that's what makes Survivor fun, is that going in as a player you might not necessarily know what you're going to get, at least at the beginning of the game, but knowing that the merge could be a thing or, you know, I really hope that they do some introspection and think that this could be a win moving forward and a good way to, you know, make the game better. Well, it was all happening at the merge,

and this week it's all going to be our happening here on our app. So tonight we have us, Owen and me, going to be talking about, you know, the real know-it-all's the true finalists who knew how to make the end and votes are overrated and then of course Rob will be reporting back from the Glitterati

with the San Francisco episode coming up I guess tomorrow and then he will have his exit interview with the eliminated player the great Nate who I am distraught about because I really liked him I really liked his vibe and I'm very I'm devastated to see him go out here

but let's talk about it Owen was this the right choice? We were present, so in a couple of ways, and maybe we can start by just kind of this trio of Uli's that we were kind of presented, because we can talk about the bottoms up alliance and whether they made the right choice later, but like in terms of this kind of abstract choice

between this trio of Uli's, right? On the one hand, you have Christina saying, she wants Nate, he's the safe option. On the other hand, you have Joanne pushing on Rizzo. He's got the idol. Let's get it at. but he's not going to play it. Let's get it out now.

And then you have Sage pushing on Savannah. She's the dangerous player. Let's take our shot while we have it. What's your take, Owen? Of that trio, is this the right call? And I guess the right call for whom? Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, obviously, we have the benefit of hindsight

and we get to see how it shook out. But to me, the benefit of having two double agents is that you're getting information that you might not get if you were just going head to head, seeing if you can get the numbers. But the fact that they were able to get Joanne and Sage back into the good graces of the original Ouli, I feel like they maybe missed an opportunity to take advantage of the fact that they knew Rizzo wasn't going to play his idol.

Of course, there's always the thought in the back of your head, like, oh, what if he's on to me? And he's just telling me what I want to hear. But I think there was a little bit of that winking at the camera as well with Jeff talking to them about 50, them talking about the prospects of playing on 50, the desire to, you know, start building their legacy and start building themselves up as someone who could be asked to return. And I forget who said it, but it's like, is the safe move,

like, what you want to do if you want to go back and be invited back? So there is a little bit of an element of like, ah, this could have been a bigger move. But I still think it's a win for the bottoms up. But I think they could have taken a shot at Arizona or Savannah with the information they had and, and, you know, diving in, taking a leap of faith with that spy they had in Joanne. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm trying to put myself out there. And I think if I am out there, I am always trying to do the most reliable move that will have the less chance of blowing up. But that said, you know, I do think you're right that this is the only moment where the Uli Alliance thinks that the bottoms up alliance is with them. They think they have the numbers. They think that

Joanne and Sage are voting with them. And as a result, they don't think they need the idol. And as soon as this vote happens, suddenly Savannah and Rizzo are going to realize, hey, we're on the bottom. We have to play aggressively. We have to mix things up. We have to play the idol strategically. So I agree with you that the right move here was probably voting out Rizzo and taking out his idol and putting the idol back in the game. And honestly, especially if you're Joanne, especially if you're Sage,

especially if you're Christina, because if it does blow up, it's not you. You know, for Stephen, this is the right move to do the same thing, the thing that is not going to get him voted out of the game. But for the people who are not directly in the line of fire, I kind of think this is the wrong move because even if it does blow up in Stephen's face, I mean, it's still like a five, five, right next week? Is that right? And so, like, but it does seem like they believe Rizzo's not going to play it.

And just psychologically, they know that Rizzo thinks he's on top. They know that the Uli's think they have this together. So, of course, it's all much, you know, much more rational from our perspective. We can like, you know, when you're out there, you have no idea what anybody is doing, you know, but from an outsider's perspective, it does seem like this was kind of a missed opportunity. And next week, even if they do keep targeting this. Uli group now the idol is very much in play and they have like much bigger problems because they really don't know they have to assume someone is going to play the idol they don't know where

it's going to go and it's going to be a lot more dangerous looking to the next vote so i do think this was a real wasted opportunity yeah and and like i said it's it's hard to to wednesday night quarterback this and i i'm certainly not saying i would have necessarily done that myself if i was there and i do wonder how they ended up settling on nate i wonder if they gave stephen the final call, although then again, M.C. played the idol on herself. So did they even know Stephen was catching the votes? He seemed to be aware of it. But I just wonder how that came to be and if they all just decided to take the more conservative approach. But it's a hard call. It really is. But I think freeing up that idol, getting it back into circulation, that would have been an added

benefit. Because now they're out in the open. They've jumped out from the Uli group. They're fully saying, we are against you. I'm against you, Russell. Like, they are out. This is their chance. They had their chance to catch them with their pants down. And it worked. You know, I thought Nate was a real contender. Actually, at the beginning of the episode, I wrote down, he was kind of one of the top of my list for folks that I thought could be in a position to make a deep run here.

So I don't think it's like they got out an inconsequential player per se. But like you said, I think the benefit of freeing up an idol utilizing their subterfuge, it was a juicy opportunity. but I don't necessarily blame him. But that's a great point. You know, in this episode, Nate was presented as the safe choice because he was less of a big threat to have the idol played on him.

But all season long, we've been talking about Nate as kind of the figurehead of this Uli alliance, the top dog in that group. You know, full credit to Rob Sesternino, I don't mind giving him full credit because he's not here. He said, I think he called Nate being the potential merge boot as the kind of head of the dragon there in that Ooli group. So, you know, it's not.

a crazy choice for them to go for him here. It's not just like they were like you know, can't take one of the big dogs out. Let's go for Nate. Because Nate really did seem to be the big dog in a lot of ways. Yeah, he's a big dog too, for sure. Yeah, and like he is quite literally a, you know, big. So like, so it does make, you know,

there's a lot to be said for going for him here, even apart from that, that question of safety. Let's talk about this from the bottoms up alliance. First of all, again, credit to Rob Sester Nino. He's not here, Stephen. You don't have to do this. I can give him his flowers because he's not,

I don't think, you know, because he's not here. You know, when he's here, I would never say this to his face. Yeah, yeah. I would never say these nice words to his face. I would never, yeah, yeah, but behind his back, I can say that he, he correctly called that Joanne would flip. He said that Juan was going to flip and he had been looking for people and now found Stephen and Sage.

I said, no, what are you talking about? Joanne is Uli strong. I was wrong. Rob, I hope you're not listening to this, but if you are, you were right. but so so this bottoms up alliance first of all let's talk about this name owen is this the worst name for any alliance in survivor history um no i don't think so i think uh matt what did matt want to say his alliance with joan was the section like they were two fighter jets you know circling each other or something is the sectional a couch that's when i whenever i hear that i think

of like the couch alliance yeah no i'm i'm pro bottoms though you know we had the power bottoms on Australia versus the world, you know, we're here for it. We're here for the bottoms. Congratulations to them on pulling off a move. I mean, Mason Dixon has aged a little poorly. I feel like that was not like, you know, super Okuraat at the moment either. Like that was never like, you know, the most politically correct choice even then. You know, what are you going to do?

But no, I'm for it. I think Stephen's having fun. I actually really love Stephen. I think he's, some people are saying he's really corny and his dad just. jokes are lame and this and that. But to me, he seems like a really earnest, sweet guy. So I'm just here for anything he's doing, honestly. He's one of my favorites this season.

And I think he's just having fun. And I don't know, I'll take bottoms up over like the underdogs. You know, it's just like. Right. It's got more flavor to it. Right. I think I called my group at one point, the bottom feeders. I kind of like that one.

But it's not the worst I've ever heard. Were you in the Baca boys? That, yes. I guess I was in the Baca boys. I was a boy on Baca. It was a little on the nose, I think. I think it was a little literal. But yeah, I was not, I was ride or die adjacent.

We can do some work. You know, say what you will about Big Brother, but they do get a little bit more creative with it. I guess they have more time to think about it while they're just like melting in the house. But yeah, it's not the worst thing I've ever heard. What's your ideal ally? You go back on Survivor.

What are you calling it, you know, the alliance? God, that's impossible. I mean, I'd, thinking about, like, everything I think about now, Stephen, because of you is through the lens of blood on the clock tower. So, I don't know, the minions are like, I don't know. I have, I have no idea. I have not put much thought into this, clearly, and this is making for tremendous podcasting, but I probably try to. Let's take 15, 20 minutes and just, like, more about it. Yeah, let's rattle them off.

Rattle them off. But, no, I, I would try to weave in some wink or nod to, to my friends. and people back home and probably through a clock tower reference by the venture, I guess. What do you feel? How do you do about fishback and friends? Because I feel like if my alliance

is called fishback and friends and I get to the end, I'm like the freaking alliance was called fishback and friends. Who are they? It's fishback, you know? I would be honored to be a fishback friend.

Right? Fishback and friends. It's very clear who's the, you know, who's going to win that game. I love it. I love it. Yeah. All right.

Well, so we're endorsing bottoms up the name. How do you feel about bottoms up the strategy? I do like it. I mean, I was a little, like, on the fence as to whether it would come to fruition. Like, if I was just getting teased that, like, a flip was going to happen. You know, I was wondering if Sage's relationship with Shannon was, you know, the, like, it was just going to be about that move. And then she would go back.

But I think Sage wisely got wind of how maybe Savannah felt about her. We saw her confessional this week about. how Savannah feels like, or it feels to say that Savannah is using her as a number and isn't actually as interested in getting to know her or valuing her as an actual player. So I really love seeing this group come together. Joanne was actually my winner pick before the season. And I thought he was really looking screwed for a while there. I think if Uli had ever lost, he was probably not looking very good there.

And I really like this trio coming together. I'm just interested how Alex ended up getting on board, who ended up telling him, but I'm all for them defecting Tahina. Yeah, a lot of fun moments with this trio, starting even when the other two boats are coming to their camp. And they're like not even sure if they should go say hi. I thought that was a, can you talk us through that scene?

I thought that was a very fun scene. That was crazy to me. I don't know why they were thinking that. Like, could you imagine just staying lying down that whole time? Like, that would be just the most off-putting weird thing you could do. But at the same time, I love that they were just like, oh, Jesus, like, here they come. Like, I respect the authenticity and that they weren't all of that excited to, like, see these people and, like, go through the song and dance of like, oh, God, here we go. We got to put on a show and do this whole thing.

But to me, not greeting the boats on the beach with a smile and a wave is just like, it's easy to do. You know, it's just like, that's kind of a freebie, in my opinion. And so I did think that was a little odd, but it made for good TV. So were you, I mean, my read on that was that they were kind of nervous about how the other tribes would respond to seeing Shannon voted off. And certainly maybe Joanne and Sage just didn't want to have to deal with it in a way. And Cesar was kind of like graciously playing along with it. And, you know, Sage kind of has big eye roll energy anyway. So, you know, I can imagine her not wanting to, you know, run down like, welcome to her home, you know.

it's just like not her vibe exactly um yeah not not cinematic i am glad they didn't go with the plan of like stephen popping out of the bushes i think that's my little too far yeah would have been hilarious but i i don't think that would have gone over well um at all what did you think about the story they sold to old uli about just Shannon just like crashing out essentially um i had put in chat BCC last week, like maybe they say Stephen played an idol. After further reflection, maybe saying Stephen played his shot in the dark, I feel like that is like a pretty harmless, believable thing. What do you think? Do you think that was like, clearly Uli bought it, but I was a little shot they did. And I wasn't sure if that was the right move at the time,

but it worked. What did you think? I'm a fan of the fewest lives possible. Like I feel like if someone, if they say he played an idol, then there are going to be questions. Where did you get the idol? Oh, was it in a bear advantage? Like, oh, was that mean there were two on that beach? You know, MC suddenly like, we got an idol. And even with a shot in the dark, I think, you know, suddenly if someone looks in his bag and sees he still got his shit, it's like a physical thing you carry with you, right?

Like, so, you know, whoa, I thought you played that. You know, it just suddenly catches up with you. Even with this, I thought it was a little unnecessarily ornate. Just say, Shannon wanted to target Joanne. She turned on us and she was no longer Uli strong. So we thought that this was a safe bet for us. you know, that we wanted to get rid of the person. That said, I don't think it was so crazy.

I think that in general, whenever a group votes out someone, they always claim that this was the person causing chaos and they were paranoid and they were, you know. And this is kind of the way that the remaining contestants get to justify why it was morally and emotionally the right choice to vote this person out, even included additionally to like strategically. I feel like every single vote in Cambodia afterwards, we always said, oh yeah, and this person,

and they were just driving so much chaos and isn't camp nice without them and then the next person, oh my gosh, thank God they're gone. They were causing all this drama and strategy and chaos and like it's just the thing you say

about that person. And honestly it was not totally, I mean, obviously Shannon was not acting loopy. She was not being, you know, wild and deradic. But it is true that she had turned on Joanne,

at least from what we saw, that she wanted to vote at Joan. I think she voted for Joanne. So it does seem like that is, you know, totally believable and everyone bought it, right? And I think that's probably too,

everyone's very happy to buy that kind of story. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was crazy and chaotic and strategic and glad she's gone. You know, he doesn't need to be beyond that. Yep, yep. And she won't be a final tribal to push back on that. Right, yeah, exactly.

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Connexonterio.ca. So the only, like, I still have lingering questions about this choice, and I just want to talk through them because I haven't really thought through it at all. And I hear you, Juan was at the bottom of Uli. Sage was at the bottom of Uli. Stephen, this is all gravy for him, you know, because he gets to keep his position with Hina and he gets these two new secret allies. So it's great for Stephen too. So I do think you're right that ultimately this is a good choice for everybody in that group, certainly from what we've seen, that this inherently improves their position. But if Joanne and Sage go with Heena, you know, original Heena, that leaves the two of them with M.C. Stephen, Sophie, and

Christina. Now, we have seen some rivalry between Sophie and Christina last week. But what's, you know, what's your read? Like, are they going from the bottom of one group to the bottom of another group, or are they opening up the game for themselves? I think more the latter. I mean, you saw Stephen tell you one, and obviously he could have been, you know, embellishing since they were having strategy conversation but he said to juan like you saved me at the shannon vote just tell me who to vote like i owe you one essentially and to me stephen i i said this earlier he strikes me as a very earnest kind of person and i i perceive him as someone who really would mean that when he said that like hey like you had me i have you now like to me i see them as a tighter three um quite honestly

like i said i i've been parenting a newborn i'm not fully like encyclopediotic with my note knowledge of the swap tribes, but I feel like the bond they connected by voting out Shannon and now pulling off this move is probably deeper than some other opportunities and some other relationships Stephen might have had. Like, Stephen and MC seem very close, but like, I feel like, you know, him and Christina didn't really get to do a whole lot together. You know what I mean? So I feel like this is more of a battle-tested kind of alliance and moving into the post-merge. you know, you don't want to hinge on something someone told you a week ago. You know, you want to go based on the data and the relationships and what's happening right

in front of you. And I feel like they've proven that they can be a three moving forward. They all vocalize that independently, kind of after tribal council at the beginning of this episode. And then they executed on it at this tribal council. So I feel like them three are like pretty tight at this point. And I do think there's something very compelling about both a secret alliance and specifically a secret alliance that has a name.

I know it keep coming back to the names, but I do think names are important because you kind of get that emotional and imaginistic weight behind an alliance. You know, on token chains, I had the Warrior Alliance. It was a great scene where maybe it was on Heroes Villains where Coachless like maybe says to like someone,

you know, how could we go through all this and give our alliance a name and then let it blow up like this? Maybe that was, I don't know those. That might have been token. All the emotional labor of picking a name. We can't reneg on that.

this um yeah i think that was may it might have been token cheats because because the warrior alliance was i don't know if we knew the name of coach's alliance in um and maybe that's where coach went wrong in heroes villains is not giving his alliance a name um but i do think that there's something to it like it just like you know it's part of the fun of the game it may it kind of like invests you in it and i you know um i do think a lot of like the the most you know it really helps it helps uh uh uh groups along so i do think you're right that this could be good for all of them And certainly I think we're seeing Sage feel her oats a little bit where she is now feeling like she can drive strategy where before she kind of had to sit back a bit and be more passive. Is it going to be too much?

Is this power going to go to Sage's head? I don't think so. And I might be reading too much into or putting too much stock into my reads on people. but Sage doesn't strike me as someone who would get high off of power. I don't know if you had the chance to read her interview with Dalton that he posted earlier today,

but I really enjoyed it and she strikes me as a really level-headed, emotionally intelligent, thoughtful person. And like, obviously she's had like a bit of an up-and-down kind of situation in this game, but she doesn't strike me as someone who would suddenly just start like acting super Machiavellian

and, you know, super duper cutthroat in a way. We did see a little bit in the preview for next week, just talking more about her relationship with Savannah, but I don't think she's going to get, like, too high on her own supply. What do you think? Yeah, I think you're probably right that her kind of baseline of feeling like she's on the bottom is going to keep her from, you know, top-dogging it too much.

And then it's just like not her personality. It really does seem like not to be her personality. But of course, any, you know, power corrupts Owen. So anybody can, you know, can go to anybody's head. And we've certainly seen, you know, people who seemed very level-headed go mad with power. That's true. I will say, though, to what you just said about her being on the bottom previously, I do think that that sometimes can be grounding, knowing that it can flip on a dime.

And that, you know, you've been on the bottom before. you know how shitty it can feel and like you know like you've just turned the tables it could easily happen again like on one hand there are certain people that might get seduced by that and go like overcorrect and go crazy and get mad with power but i feel like the the more introspective people have that ability to like keep it level and understand that uh you know it's a precarious situation and not to get too cocky with one successful move okay so everybody comes together at the merge and the bottoms up alliance does a great job of stealth reintegrating with old Uli and I think it's Rizzo who throws out the idea that they need to get rid of a Hina

and the best Hina to get rid of is Yellow Sophie largely because it simplifies the Sophie issue. How did you feel about all this? I didn't fully understand that like we've seen so little from Sophie which makes me sad she and I are from the same county in Maryland. Like we both did summer swim growing up. Like I inherently was wanting to root for her. Side note, beautiful smile. You know,

you're doing great, Sophie. But, you know, we hadn't been told the story of Sophie being someone consequential in like the backbone of Hina necessarily. So I, it didn't make a ton of sense to me.

And were you joking? I may have missed, like was the Sophie issue something he actually said, like the name? No, I believe he specifically said like it will make, make it easier to deal with the Sophie. That's a good reason as any, honestly.

I mean, if you're looking for a target, sure. And honestly, I don't know, Sophie does. I could see her striking people as someone who could be a dangerous player. You know what I mean? I think obviously we have our perception tinted by the edit and what we've seen from her, but I feel like I'd be pretty threatened by her out there. She's quite athletic. She's charming.

She's like, I really think that it makes as much sense as any other choice. particularly with what they might know about any idols or advantages floating around. So, yeah, I didn't realize he had actually said that. I must have missed that. But I love it. I love it. Yeah, and she honestly has among the fewest relationships, right, just from the various swaps with the other, with Uli, where, you know, MC was obviously just with Rizzo and Savannah,

Stephen, of course, with Juan and Sage. And so, and then, let's see, I feel like Sophie's been kind of in a huge. a bubble a little bit. I'm trying to see what I'm trying to remember the first swap. Yeah, the first swap, Sophie, well, I guess Sophie and Christina have been together the whole time and but then, honestly, not too much with any of the, um, the Uli's there. But, but, um, yeah, I mean, between the two of them, maybe, maybe Sophie.

I mean, of, you know, of the people who have the, the fewest relationships and Nate doesn't really, and, and there was a, hint that Christina maybe had more of a connection to Nate last time because that was what made Sophie so upset was that it was going to be Christina going to Nate and Sophie was going to be the decoy boot. So maybe they, you know, so and so maybe that could just be she had the fewest relationships with any heena. So it was kind of an easy consensus. We already said her name once. It's easier to say it again. Sometimes the simplest answer is just, you know, the path of least resistance. I could see that. It seemed like a pretty like, I don't want to say inconsequential.

but I don't know if there was, like you said, there's just not as much connection there and she's already had her name thrown out there. It's, you know, it might have been just the easiest thing to do. And of course, there's just simply the retroactive fact that she wins the immunity challenge.

So obviously we have to see the story that shows she is the one being targeted because that's the stakes. When it was down to her and Stephen, and we'd seen like basically nothing about anybody targeting Stephen at this point and Sophie had been the, like, you know who's winning that challenge.

So there's no ambivalence, or it gives her ambiguity about who's winning that challenge. I love it. I mean, it writes itself. And again, I'm really happy for Sophie because she really has had kind of a tough edit. And I'm sure it's hard for anyone who was a fan of the show to see themselves on the show and not get a ton of content. And so, yeah, big night for her. And it worked out really conveniently, like you said, it's like they almost knew that she was going to win. And so, well, so, you know, editors did know, because they had already seen this prior to editing the episode, Owen.

Did you know that? That is true. It's not airing live. Oh, they're not in Fiji right now? No. They come back. They choose hundreds of hours of footage to select to create a compelling storyline. Yeah.

Yeah, that's how they get like the confessionals in there and everything. I bet you'd be a great novelist. Well, it's a subject very close to my heart. So let's talk about Sophie's challenge when here where she thanks her mom. She says, this is for my mom. and that, you know, her mom is, I think, the toughest or, like, most relentless person she knows and she can power through anything. Now, does this hit you different now that you have a child? Can you imagine your child winning an immunity challenge and thanking you?

Isn't that beautiful to think about? It is beautiful. I'd be so happy if I, if I ever got to hear that for Lenny on Survivor 85 where Robo Jeff is putting the necklace around her. I'd be, I'd be cheased, chuffed to bits, as you would say. Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful. I love it. Yeah, Survivor 85, actually only like 16 years old. I guess I don't know if Lenny's going to qualify for Survivor 85. 17 years away. 94. Yeah.

What challenge do you think, based on what you've seen of her in the past six weeks, what challenge do you think is going to play to Lenny's strengths? Ooh, that's a really good one. I think the one in South Pacific where they have to tear the meat off of the giant shank that's hanging off a hook. because sometimes when I'm giving her a bottle, she just goes and just gets right on in there. Those neck muscles are overdeveloped.

So, yeah, I think she'd go crazy on that challenge. Well, she's got, you got the two of the neck muscles with your like last gasp, you know, Yeah, that's true. That's true. It runs in the family. What is she going to say, you know, when she says like, this is for my dad, you know, in the way that Sophie says, you know, my mom is so relentless, I don't know if those were her exact words.

What is Lenny going to say? Like, this is for my dad. He's so what? He's so. bad at Survivor. I need to overcome the family legacy and finish what he started.

Yeah. That's, that's, no, it's like the Brandon Hand strategy. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, she'll have Lil Knight tattooed on her neck and cover it up. She doesn't want anyone to know because I'm so threatening and have all this baggage with my name. Yeah. Yeah.

And so she wins and that is fun because then suddenly they have to scramble and try to figure out who else to vote for. They decide Steven, Joan, goes along with it. Let's talk about this conversation between Sof or Blue Sophie and Alex, where they both sit down at the merge and say to each other, you know, kind of, what was your take on that conversation? I was a little surprised, I guess, and I was, I guess, proud of Alex in a way for almost, I don't

want to say like standing up for himself that sounds a little dramatic but like he's playing his game you know he's he's saying like kind of to my conversation earlier about like what has happened more recently and what relationships are you relying on now he's not just defaulting to going back to sophy b um just because that they started the game together like he spent this time now with the original he knows i think he was swapped twice with a few of them um again apologies that i can't keep perfect track but yeah he's been with christina now on two different tribes he's been with sophy on two different tribes so like he's he's playing his game which i i do respect but um i don't know i don't know how much sophy was counting on that yeah what what are the votes here if

a is it i don't think i think it's a um so the votes for nate were all of old hena that stephenna that's Stephen, Christina, Sophie, and MC. Then you have Sage and Joanne, and then Alex is actually the seventh. So they didn't actually need Alex there. If Alex had gone with old Uli and Sof and voted for Stephen, it would have still been a 6-5 vote. And so Alex specifically says,

you know, I'm going where the numbers are. But you're right. Someone had to have told Alex where the numbers were. I do, you know, it could easily have been one of those people who was just with him on one of the, on one of the swap tribes. That's, that's my guess. And I imagine we'll get kind of a retroactive explanation of that at the beginning of next episode of how he came to be in the majority. And to our conversation earlier about the bottoms up and, you know, are they on the bottom now? theoretically maybe they are like they could be because now what that's that's say Alex Christina Sophie S and MC maybe them for you know now have a majority over the bottoms up like

that could make it a more dangerous situation for Steve and Joanne and Sage but I'm not sure I I'll need to see how it came to be and if like was was the bottoms up a one that Alex was voting with them because that is always kind of like a weird feeling. I remember the vote where Noel stole my vote and we voted James out. Sammy had told Carla about

that at the last minute and that really kind of was defeating to me because I felt like oh, I'm getting this big move together I'm going to have like, I'm going to take some power, I'm going to shake up the game a little bit but then to have your plan get told to someone else who you didn't want to be in

that plan. I was just like, why are you you know, why are you raining on my parade? Like, that is a potential friction there. So I am curious if, like, Christina and Sophie told Alex last minute and Stephen didn't know, that could lead to something. Yeah. What, I mean, what did you think here? I mean, I generally like Alex the way Alex is playing this as kind of not really choosing

a side, kind of being, I mean, I don't know, normally I'm actually like, normally I say the opposite. So I'm trying to, like, check myself here. It seems to be, from what I'm watching, it makes a lot of sense for Alex to, you know, just go with a majority, not draw attention to himself. But typically, I do think that the people who win Survivor are the ones who are on a side and can kind of say throughout the game, hey, this was my side and my side won, quite frankly, you know, this was, these are, these are my allies. So the people who you stood by, I really feel like you stood by them. And the people who were against you don't feel as betrayed by you because they knew they were against you. And whereas, like, if you're

constantly bouncing back and forth, there's going to be people who really feel hurt by that, and they're going to vote almost against you as much as they're going to vote for you. So, I mean, what's your take here on the way Alex is playing? Yeah, I think that kind of ethos can vary so much season to season, and this season seems to have a lot of friction and conflict, and I don't want to say bad blood, but, you know, a sense of competition between Uli and Hina. So I could see there being a little bit more animosity towards someone who is playing more of a back-and-forth kind of game to where it's like they're so

tribalized in the way that they're viewing the game so far that I could see that landing more poorly than maybe in a more fluid season that doesn't feel quite as team A versus team B. So I am curious and just not to overanalyze the edit, but I I'm dubious on Alex's chances. Like I do wonder how where he goes from here. Like yes, he's in the majority and he could imagine himself having a four amongst the seven here and putting him in a good spot. But I just don't know if it's his story being told or if he's just more like a number at this point being jockeyed over. And that's my fear. And that's how I kind of felt sometimes is like I felt like I was scrambling to be a part of a majority, just like desperate

to get into the majority just so I could like pause and breathe for a second and feel like I didn't have to like scramble quite as much and um he's he obviously doesn't have it as dire in that sense and that he's not getting targeted but um i do wonder if he's just biding his time and hoping to pull off a strike here soon but i i think i'm more on the side of i think he needs to take a firmer stance um pretty soon here if he wants to you know make it to the end and win you kind of need your name on something that's why fishback and friends is such a great name for an alliance by the way. You kind of need your name on something in order to justify that win. And if you are just that person who's going with the numbers, you know, it works in certain circumstances. I mean,

obviously it works extremely famously for Sandra, the anybody but me strategy. But, you know, I do think you kind of need to have in this era of survivor, your name on something for, you have to give people a positive reason to vote for you here. So, yeah, I think it's a going to be tricky because, you know, I think if I'm Alex, I'm thinking, what alliance can I put together? Like, what's my little, like, group of stragglers? And maybe he's waiting for that moment to, like, pull the three or four people, which is kind of what Erica did in 41. Is that, is that an accurate assessment? Like, she, she sort of like pulled a, like, a small little group together right kind of at the end there to kind of like give herself the, I don't remember. I'm sorry.

You're supposed to know the 40s. To me, it's all a blur. You're this, you're, it's becoming a blur to me, Stephen, it's, uh, I don't know if it's, it's being a dad now or what or if it's because the past nine seasons have all felt the same. But like, yeah, I, I don't remember the end game of 41. I'm sorry, but he might just be waiting for his time to do something like that. Um, and maybe you do just need a little bit, right? And maybe you do, maybe that is the correct strategy here is to kind of wait for this one, like wait for your moment to strike essentially. But, um, you know, just based on the dynamics of this season, where it really is these two kind of warring, groups you don't really see who's here to pick up right like there's no obvious answer of who is

alex going to swoop up in the way that rob in season um 42 was so certain that romeo was going to pick up all the stragglers um you know and just never did and rob was so wrong about that so so embarrassingly wrong um just humiliating called by rob um you know i i you know but in that in that um season there was you know you could see that happening there was kind of like there were stragglers to pick up and I don't really know, I don't see that now for Alex, like where those people are. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass.

Get your first year for 250 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca. Let's talk about MC, the other kind of like major development of this episode. was MC finding her idol. Do you want to talk a little bit about that scene? That was tough to watch. I mean, she's there with the map in her mouth, put her hair up, look for the keys.

Savannah just pulls right on up. That was tough. And I mean, I loved it, though, because that's what Survivor is, right? Those interpersonal conflicts that are happening. And you see on the surface, they're trying to have this conversation, like, yeah, I want to work with you.

and they both know it's bullshit, right? And it's fun to watch that dance, and it's like a fight, you know, they're having the sparring match. And I don't know, Savannah's intense. I feel like if like Savannah, I lived in Savannah City and she like came up to me, it's like, hey, I'm with the news. What's going on?

I would just tell her everything. Like I would just fold like a chair, you know. She's got like this natural intensity about her. And I mean that in a very complimentary way. I said the same about Noel from my season. Like there's just certain people you see in their eyes, they've got this like fire and she's one of those people, strong eyebrows as well.

And it's just like it, it would intimidate me for sure. Like I would have a hard time like doing that dance there. And it's tough too where, you know, you, well, MC doesn't know, but there's knowledge as power out there. Like, what do you do? Do you tell Savannah like, hey, go. way like I'm doing this like I think she played it the best she could have since she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar like there's not a whole lot you can do there when you've got a clue in

your mouth but it was it was fun to why I enjoyed the sequence I think it's it's was wise of her to just play it but it's hard um I don't know I might I might contradict myself there and say maybe it wasn't wise to play it but it is it's a dangerous proposition where where everyone knows you have one and um hopefully she's I know she's a newer fan I I don't know if she knows if knowledge is power is a thing and a possibility out there. But if I was in that position and I got caught doing that, I would do my best to try to, like, disguise what it was. In case there was knowledge is power, they wouldn't know if it's a steal of vote or an advantage. I mean, it's a 50-50 shot, but still, at least adding whatever confusion you can in that moment to try to salvage the situation.

Yeah, I thought that MC did a great job where she immediately plays on. Well, I mean, just fesses up because there's nothing she can say. You know, anything she says it's not just admitting the truth is going to be an obvious lie. And so there's really no reason not to fess up here. I did think it was a very funny scene where they kind of have like, they sort of like blurred the audio out where you can kind of like, MC's like scrambling with these locks and then just like Savannah's like yapping at her. But, but what do you think Savannah just stumbled on her or did Savannah come looking? my guess is savanna came looking i think she's she's sharp enough to to wander around and plus what

there were only five of them around camp so um if one person is like i'm going to go have some alone time like that's inherently suss like i don't know i i know um like she could have said she had to go take an aqua dump like i feel like they're there like a lone time to me that maybe wasn't the best thing to say and i'm nitpicking here but still i i do think savannah probably wanted to take a peek and happen across a good situation for her there. Yeah, I complete, yeah, and I do think that, you know, when MC went and sat by the boat, you're kind of like, okay, sometimes athletes like get hot after like a challenge loss and, you know, want to cool down and I get that.

But then when she like wanders off down the beach, you're going to start to wonder what exactly is going on here. Yeah, yeah. And so I think that it made a lot of sense. I thought Savannah played that great. Like this can be, you know, this can be an opportunity for us to build trust. And even if we kind of got MC's perspective of, I don't buy what Savannah is selling me, I still thought Savannah did a good job of trying to sell or something.

Like, you know, it's an awkward moment for them both, not just MC. And so Savannah says, hey, this can be something that builds trust between us. And I really felt that with you already when we were on our last group together. And, you know, I think that there is a lot to say about, you know, I think she did that very elegantly. then Savannah like lunges for the keys when she finds it again like I think that she doesn't have any claim to it right I think this is MCs to find that was that's been clarified right I'm not sure like what happens if Savannah gets the keys and just hurls them into the ocean like Boston Robb with the clue in the volcano like oh that's interesting like not even claim it as

hers just like discard it entirely wow yeah yeah I don't know I don't know I do think that would be more in bounds than trying to yeah trying to claim it as her own blame it. Yeah. So that's what, I'm not saying that's what I would do, but if I was doing what Savannah did, that would be my play. It's just like, no key for you. You're stuck with that box. So I don't know if that would be within the rules. But like you said, I mean, Savannah did, the same way MC did, said what she had to say in that situation to try to make it the least awkward as possible and try to turn it into potentially something. Like that just all went out the window when she dove on that thing. Like I thought I was watching Physical 100 or something. Like she went into a different mode and it caught me off guard. I was like, wow. I didn't expect that. I thought they were going to keep kind of doing their dance and maybe someone would put their foot on it and like, you know,

they'd have this awkward tango of like who was going to make the first move and Savannah said, screw it, I'm making the first move. And I respect that a lot. Yeah, it was like, it was like a gunslinger movie

where like they're just like kind of like got their, you know, the hands at the end and then boom, like someone draws and the other one draws at the same time. Yeah, Han shot first. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, so MC does ultimately decide to play the idol here.

you kind of alluded to thinking it was a good move. I also think it's the right choice here. Everybody knows she has it. You know, she doesn't know that there's a knowledge of power, although we do. And even apart from that, I do think we're kind of moving to this meta of,

let's just like burn this stuff fast before it like catches up to me. I don't want to be, you know, the accidental person who went home with an idol in their pocket just because something went wrong. You know, maybe she holds onto it if it's not, if people don't know about it, but I think with everybody knowing about it and the sense that she could be targeted because of that, I don't think it's a wild choice here to make that call.

Certainly not. Yeah, I think that's a variable that sends it over the edge. You know, I think you could have the conversation about like is playing it as soon as you get it partially like a reputation protector more so than it is like about the actual game you're playing. Like after 46, you know, that's all the talk there is about idols is like, oh, I don't want to end up like those, that clown car where they just. went out back to back to back and you know everyone's scared of that happening to them you don't want to be that person and i'm sure it's like it does a ding to your your ego and your view of yourself as a as a player and i'm sure i'd be you know poop in my pants if i had an idol in my pocket just like wondering about the paranoia of like oh man am i going to be james like what's going to happen so i i certainly don't blame anyone for doing it but i think like especially post 46, like the the just like gravitas of going home with an idol is a lot stronger than even it was before. And I wonder if that, I don't want to say clouds your judgment, but just adds

an even heavier factor to the decision. But yeah, I agree with you. The fact that it was so public and she got caught by the opposition doing it, she really didn't have much of a choice. I just wonder, though, like, it's hard because like, does she know the votes are going to Stephen or does Stephen feel that way because everyone is the main character in their own story? Like how much of that is him actually picking up on the vibe or versus like, I certainly remember there was a point where I'm like, oh yeah, they're going to vote for me now, now that, you know, Janine, whatever. I like, I just, you know, you always want to feel like you're important enough to be voted out.

So I just wonder, like, if Stevens Reed was more of, you know, just because he's Stephen or because of the circumstances in him actually getting away of the land. So it does question if MC missed something, but I don't think she did. Yeah. And also, we're seeing the story where Stephen is the target because that's where the votes ended up. But it's likely that they talked about other possible targets. And I cannot imagine that MC was not one of them, given that she just got an idol.

You know, on the one hand, it's a reason not to vote for someone. And on the other hand, it's also a reason to vote for someone. And visa v. 46, it's not just that those people had a blow to their ego. They actually also were voted out of the game, you know? I mean, it wasn't just like, you know, obviously it's embarrassing. But, like, they also were actually voted out. So I do think there's that, too, of, you know, play it. Don't, you know, don't, just because you feel safe doesn't mean you are safe.

All of those people don't look a little foolish than B at Ponderosa looking very foolish. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think it's like it looks less foolish. Let's talk about Savannah a little bit. You kind of alluded to Savannah here as being, this is an interesting other side of Savannah. Because the Savannah we've seen so far has been very much in control of her game, very socially adept, very much guiding the. thinking of her various groups. And here we see Savannah a little bit less of that, right?

We have two scenes notably with Savannah, one with Sage, where she's like pitching Sage really hard and Sage is just not having it at all. And then here too with MC where she is pitching Sage or some pitching MC really hard. And MC's like, oh my gosh, Savannah like take a step back, take a breath. Is this Savannah just getting her footing in the merge? Like what are we seeing here? that's that's a good question i mean i know like i think savanna was the first overall pick in the draft and like she's been playing really well and like you said she seemed like kind of like the nexus

of power and like one of the big power brokers on uly so it was interesting to see her kind of like on the back foot where we knew she was on the back foot and and she didn't necessarily know that um it did i don't know if this is a horrible comparison or not but it did kind of give me shades of Aubrey on game changers where it did the little supercut of her saying she wanted to have a dialogue with everyone. Just in that, her interactions with both Sage and MC felt very similar in her approach to how she navigated that. And that's not necessarily a criticism because I think she's a really good communicator. And like I said, she does have this energy about her that I think does open people up and make them want to talk to them. But I think she just had the

misfortune of trying to pull that maneuver on two people who were clocking her a little bit. And it was interesting to see both Sage and MC have a similar reaction to Savannah, you know, opening up her eyes and trying to make that intense eye contact and the look at me, like, let's talk here. I'm the captain now. Yeah, I'm the captain now. That can, I guess, if you've got like a, like a narrative about someone already built up in your head, I could see how that could be off-putting.

So I was ultimately, like, I was definitely rooting for the bottoms up and the Hinas to pull this off, but it was interesting to see such a big player kind of get bested here this round. Yeah. Let's take a brief from this chat to talk about your weakness of escape.

Jess, put the slide. Okay, taking a little break from my typical blurb reading to talk to you about Stephen Fishback on tour. So I've got three dates announced so far. There will be a few more readings. But the first, the big three, my launch events for Escape, which I'd love it if all of the people, I mean, maybe not all of the people listening to this podcast, but any of the people listening to this podcast, I don't think these venues can hold all of the people.

But on January 27th, the day my book is released, I will be at Washington, D.C., at Politics and Pros on Connecticut. anybody in the area I would love it if you could come that event is free and open to the public first come first served so you do not need to get tickets to that then on August August on January 29th I will be in Austin

Texas at book people with the great Rick Devons interviewing me we're talking about getting these newscasters and I thought who better from the Survivor world to talk about has been reality TV contestants going back on television, then the great Rick Devons. So that event is free, but it is.

You can reserve your spot, which I would recommend. Go to stephenfishback.com. There's an events tab, and you can click there to reserve a spot at Book People on January 29th in Austin, Texas. Then New York City, I'm going to be at the Strand with freaking Emily Nussbaum, New Yorker writer, author of The Sun, The Book About Reality TV,

you know, the previous book about reality, but not really, the book about reality television. We will be taught, and I'm super excited for this event. It's going to be big. Hopefully there will be some kind of after event, too. I'm still looking into that. But that event, you do have to pay for and register in advance. I think it's like $13 without a book.

And then with the book, obviously, the price of the book, too. So again, Stevenfishback.com. You can click through to the events tab and register. for my Austin event with Rick Devons and my New York City event on January 30th with Emily Nussbaum. Register now. Supplies are limited. They're going fast

and really looking forward to seeing you soon. Hopefully it's a lot of fun. Hopefully it's a lot of fun. I think it'll be fun, like, you know, for those who love books and just generally those who love, you know, Survivor and convivial evenings. Sounds beautiful.

Who's hobnobbing with the Glitterati now, Stephen? Well, I'll take a brief break and go back to our episode because we have something really important to talk about Owen before we get into the promo or maybe let's do the promo maybe you're right Jess

let's just go into the whole promo and then we can get to that okay oh this is the big new right gosh I can't this is not promo this is huge so our HAP is a nominee for the overall reality podcast at the American reality

television awards artists not to be confused with artists from Survivor Philippines but our tasks so to vote text artists, again, A-R-T-A-S to 766-2-6, you know, we support Rob, my gosh, like, this is the best reality podcast, or R-Hap is generally, I guess. I mean, this specifically, but R-R-R-R-R-E generally.

Then tonight, join the group chat. Owen and I will be chatting live at 8 p.m., although I guess this is post-A-M. So have joined, Owen and I have been chatting live at 8 p.m. We were chatting live at 8 p.m. with O.M. and Gabby, Sam, Teeny, Sophie, and many, many more. It is a very fun group chat. And truly, it's like, it's honestly like my favorite discussion about Survivor, other than the Nodals itself, because it is just like a lot of, like, very funny, great survivor players, as well as, you know, a huge community, just coming up with great takes. Christian is very funny in that chat. Who are your standouts in that chat?

A Christian is hilarious. I mean, it seems like he's, after a long day of teaching robotics, he likes unwind with a glass of wine and just just type away um sam i always appreciate his takes um i like when tyson pops his head in there it's a good time it's really fun uh kelly wentworth star of the chat as well yeah kelly wentworth my gosh um and mike bloom as a great contributor with like polls and fun fun fun uh fun things um sophy uh clark has good takes and there are some people from this season who have poked their heads in it's a contentious issue whether or not they should be allowed to contribute but they do. They do. Yeah.

Then we have the RHap patron Q&A about episode seven, so if you know what that means, you'll enjoy that. And then of course, Club Kondo with Rob and Chappelle. And again, if you are a fan of Club Kondo, then this is the podcast

for you. And then of course, we have all of the We Know Survivor podcasts with the B&B, Global Survivor, YX Lost, and the great Purple Pants Podcasts. So many podcasts, just so many podcasts.

And of course, the Amazing Race is apparently on. I'm seeing from this slide, Big Brother edition, still happening. So if you're watching it, you know, this is something where you could listen to some analysis of the latest episode. And so with that out of the way, let's talk about the most important subject of the episode, which is the Fisci Award. Okay, Owen, this is a tough one because I agree with you that this was a good move for a lot of players, but a bad move within a good move. Because voting out, Nate, I don't know if necessarily was the best move. So let's talk about who deserves the fish eat for this week.

Do you want to give me some? I'm usually the one, you know, I mean, I guess it's my award. But who are we going to knight, Owen, as the raining surfish a lot? I feel like you have to look at one of the three bottoms up, right? You're looking at Sage, Stephen, or Joanne here. I think my inclination is to go towards Sage, I suppose, but I might be biased just because I love her, and I think she's phenomenal television.

I've really enjoyed her. But like the, I don't know, finding the advantage, who cares? I was going to say, because she found the advantage. Like, that's a bonus point. but like who cares she found a key um which by the way quick sidebar i hated that let them just intermingle at the the beginning of the merge oh let's let's let's talk about i want to let's actually have a whole more than a sidebar let's talk about that because i actually wanted to ask you about that um let's let's let's uh so talk with people that went to sage yeah yeah yeah so i think sage could be a contender there

who who ultimately was pushing nate was christina the one pushing nate christina was the one pushing for nate um we said i mean at least from what we saw Sage was the one pushing for Savannah and Joanne was the one pushing for Rizzo. So do you, how much do you value the person getting what they want? I think that's pretty important getting what you want. But also, I like flexibility. So going along with a plan, even if it's not your specific plan, I think that's important to it. Yeah, I will say to Christina's point, I fear that Christina is getting intentionally goaded here.

Derogatory goaded, not greatest of all time, but like goat dragged to the end. Like, I feel like she's in a very, like, on the precipice of becoming a player that people just ice out and just be like, yeah, we can get her whenever. Honestly, I can empathize with that a lot. But to her credit, to like to make the argument for her getting it here, she got what she wanted in Nate. I think we can assume slash reasonably guess that she may have been the one to clue Alex into the plan, which maybe could set her. up well moving forward now that she's helped the heena bottom feeder or bottoms up situation like gain some power but then she's also setting herself up to get a core four within that seven like maybe she is setting the table for uh you know so some more moves moving forward

even though she hasn't been much of a power player from what we've seen in the edit thus far so to her credit i think she could be in contention here okay so christina you've mentioned sage Anybody else that you think is in contention? I think Joanne over Stephen, if I want to give a third, just because the way he navigated the lie around the Shannon boot, the way he Rizzo opened up to him about not playing his idol. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to maximize his moot returns on that one there, but I would throw Joanne in the mix as well.

So I actually think, I'm going to go a little off piece here, Owen, and I want to present you a counter argument, and you tell me what you think, okay? my gut is saying Stephen here because I think Stephen is the one who benefits the most from this as I was saying I mean granted he was the target

which is not good so that's not ideal to have been the target out of the gate that said he has this bottom feeder alliance which voted together last episode I didn't think watching that necessarily they were going to stay together

he comes up with the name bottom feet no sorry bottoms up bottoms up and you know single hand with his great, though, I do think the name helps. I think the name helps kind of turn it into a real thing. I think Stephen benefits the most from the bottoms of alliance because he is the length of the bottoms of alliance, but he also is obviously still connected to old Hina. And I kind of think voting out Nate benefits him the most simply because taking the safer option here is the thing

that is best for him as the other potential target. Also, I like to, I mean, I know this is, I like to mix it around a little bit, give people, you know, give people their flowers, who have not yet received their flowers. That's not dispositive, you know, but that is, I think, a, that's a factor here to me. I can see, I think, I think, John. The Socialist Award, look at you. Yeah, well, yeah. I think that, you know, I lived a long time in New York.

So now it's, you know, it's part of my DNA. I, you know, I think Juan was probably right here that Rizzo was the best choice, but he didn't get his way. I think Sage had a really good point. that Savannah was a really good choice because we've seen how sharky she is. She couldn't get it done. I thought Christina had a bad point for Christina, but that is what, and again,

like I think Stephen was a real beneficiary of that point. And so I think that I'm going to give it, unless you won't, well, tell me what you think. Tell me, tell me. No, no, no, I don't disagree. Go ahead and crown him. Stephen the Fisher Award.

I used to, I used to be anti-Stevens. I wanted to be the only and best, Stephen. but now I'm, you know, with my with my dotage, with my advancing years, I've gained empathy and generosity towards other Stevens. And, you know, I'm really enjoying this one. At least he spells it with a V. Although, did you catch someone voted? Oh, yeah, I didn't see who. I wanted to see who used the correct spelling because kudos to that person. Maybe that person should get the fishy for spelling, Stephen F.H. All right, let's talk very briefly about this, this key past. Also, I want to believe, even before we do that, what do you think?

about splitting the merge feast into do you like this idea they got rid of earn the merge but you still have to earn the merge feast where are you on that i do not like it i am anti i am anti that i feel like that's a hallmark of survivor right you make the merge you get a little treat you deserve a little treat you made it this far maybe because it's only 26 days now we don't deserve as much of a treat because it's not real survivor according to some people but you know i i i think it it takes away some of the celebratory energy like i saw in in sage's conversation with dalton she like didn't even really like care that much that it was the merge you know it's like she's so locked in on the game that she wasn't really able to celebrate the milestone and I think even though she was

at the meal um you know I feel like what's the point like who's this for to not have it yeah I I basically agree with you Owen I mean I do think Jeff is really big on earning everything in this new era of survivor and I can see the conversation where they convinced him that oh no you know they're earning that they're still, if they're in the feast, you know, we can have a real merge. They're still learning the feast. But I also, you know, I think it's nice to see people just have nice things. You don't want to see them suffer all the time. I mean, and I'm realizing this even as like a writer in the fiction, because I think I'm,

I'm more prone to like creating conflict. But in the fiction that I love, you know, you do kind of want to see people have moments of grace and happiness and joy. And of course, then the moments of tragedy and suffering are all the more intense because they had those relaxing moments, because they could, you know, be expansive and be, you know, at ease. And, you know, I think you want all of that. You don't want them all just like gritting through it miserably. Yeah. You don't have something to lose if you never had anything good, right? Right. Yeah. And I, I've always, I mean, obviously as a player, you love the merge. But even as a viewer,

I love the merge. Watching everybody kind of relax and, like, be a part of something. And I do think that's something that's really important to Survivor is it's not just a game where you're fighting for it. It's also people. And Rob really said this so beautifully last episode, you know, honestly on the conflict side of things that what we're missing from current Survivor is these sort of interpersonal conflicts, these people feuding, not just these kind of like game pieces out maneuvering each other. But I also think, you know, from the nicer aspect of that, you know, we're missing some of these like moments of levity and grace, you know, the auction obviously was the example of

that, you know, just where they could just be goofy and fun and everyone could be having a good time. And I think like as viewers, that is actually enjoyable to watch. That doesn't feel like, you know, I'm missing out. out on drama, it just feels like it's like nice because the whole show is dramatic. So I do feel like I miss the merge and I

didn't, I don't love like half of them not having it because then it's just like, okay, like then these people are eating and these people are not and you don't really feel the specialness of it. You kind of loses some of that. And it was a trunted strategy talk too. Sorry? And it's stunted strategy talk too because the group at the feast couldn't talk because they were

all from different factions and they were just sitting there waiting to finish their charcutory and Sage laid on the ground because she was Tudy. Like, it's like they don't even get to, like, you know, do the dance yet. They just have to wait. Yeah. I mean, I will say the best half merge feast was, of course, your half merge feast, where Gabler just comes out and says he wants Ellie out.

I mean, that was great. That was like, that's very memorable TV. So, you know, every, every format can have its moments. And the key thing, too, I, I, it's fun to watch them running around. But because it's so random, it's like, okay, like she happened to grab the right key. Yeah. Woohoo. Nicely done.

But no, I mean, it, I was. remember we had something like that before the last gasp challenge where cody got the choose your champion advantage which by the way i thought was like kind of a cool advantage but i i didn't care for it just because it seemed like it was the same day that they had merged and i'm sure it only took like half an hour or something but still like i thought the whole point of the merge is to have finally that cross-pollination happening and to have all these relationships that you had built come to a head and like to like let it start percolating and obviously it's still will later in the day, but I just don't understand the interrupting that. Maybe it was just a

function of them having 11 people instead of 10, like they needed to do something like that. But I just thought, like, it annoyed me a little bit if I'm being on. I was just like, let them, let them just go off and do the thing and talk and like whisper and and play the game. Yeah. I'm with you on this, Owen. I agree. I think that's like, that's what I miss too. Well, thank you so much. And as always, an exceptional guest with so much great game insight and as well as banter. What, what do you got going on? What's coming up for you?

Not a whole lot. I have to go back to freaking work soon because I, I've split my parental leave in half. So I will be headed back to work soon and perhaps taking in more of the episodes. But honestly, I'm just, I'm just enjoying fatherhood. It's been a really special time getting to see our daughter just like come home. And now she's like, she's starting to smile. She's starting to laugh. Like, it's really, really incredible.

And I am going to say this to your face. Thank you so much for everything you've done for us, just sending a couple extra carriers you had laying around and the gift. And just it's really kind and generous. And I'm honored to call you a friend. And it means a lot to have you just kind of supporting me through this journey. And it's great. I just, I feel like I've got someone that I can talk to about this because, you know,

you've got daughters too. And it's really cool. It's very touching. So thank you, Steve. Oh, that's really nice to me to say. I mean, honestly, you're a wonderful friend, oh, and it's been a really, it's been great to develop that friendship. And it's my pleasure. And I'm so excited to see you and Sammy as parents, because I know you are just, oh, I was going to say, going to be great parents.

But I know you're already exceptional parents. And I know that, you know, you are at every step of the way going to be really, really wonderful parents. And you have such a lucky, lucky, lucky little girl. Yeah, thanks, man. And I'm also excited for escape on this bookshelf. That's the only other thing I'm thinking about. I'm ready. I keep seeing the reviews come in.

and I want my copy, but I'll have to wait. I think I did Barnes & Noble. So I think in January, I'll finally get my grubby hands on it. Well, those of you who have not ordered it, can still order it at Stevenfishback.com, signed copies as well as unsigned copies, whatever you want. If you want a pristine, you know, pristine inner pages with no, none of my like grubby signatures on it, you know, you can, that's available to you as well. But, yeah, I mean, Barnes & Noble is a great choice, you know, if that's for sure.

I think I did it through your website, to be, to be fair. No, no, but it all funnels out. My website goes to Barnes & Noble as well as others. So thank you so much, Owen. Thank you, Jess, behind the scenes. And I'm hoping that everyone at the San Francisco event is having a wonderful time hobnomming with the Glitterati. You all are the Glitterati because, you know, hobnobing with each other. Glitter all right.

Thanks so much. And I think we did all the promo stuff. So we're good. We're good. All right. This was great. Thank you so much, Owen. This was really great.

Thanks for having me. It was awesome. Thank you.