RHAP: We Know Survivor - Mary Holland Talks Survivor 50

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Mary Holland Talks Survivor 50 Today, Rob Cesternino welcomes actor and comedian Mary Holland back to RHAP for a no-holds-barred recap of the latest action. As returning legends like Coach, Cirie, Genevieve, and Rizo take center stage, Mary and Rob explore how old wounds and new alliances shape the fiercely competitive season. Survivor 50 brings the drama, and this episode breaks down the mix of heart, cunning, and chaos that’s put both players and fans on the edge of their seats. After recapping the central themes of returning players facing off—and sometimes leaning into their signature moves or big mistakes—Rob and Mary dive into the specifics: Coach’s emotional authenticity, the sudden exit of Angelina, and the blossoming rivalries and bonds among castaways. They examine Rizo’s “fresh wound advantage” as one of the only players not to experience jury or pre-jury heartbreak, and how being unburdened by past Survivor missteps can be a social and strategic weapon. Meanwhile, tribe dynamics fluctuate, leading to big questions about hidden immunity idols, deep alliances, and whether players like Tiffany and Emily will get their due on screen before the merge. Mary breaks down the social fallout from Charlie targeting Rizo, debating whether it’s a reaction to past Survivor regrets or a smart move against an emerging power player. An in-depth look at why Coach’s vulnerability and “can’t help but be himself” attitude make him a compelling force in the game. Hot takes on the treatment of women’s edit this season, especially Angelina’s under-the-radar rollout and the anticipation for more from Tiffany and Emily. Discussions on how watching yourself back—and the Survivor feedback loop—can shape or warp returnee gameplay. Creative challenge and advantage ideas pitched for future Survivor seasons, including the “Switcheroo Advantage” and the “Sharing Is Caring” twist. As Survivor 50 heads into the merge, the stage is set for epic blindsides and shifting allegiances. Will Rizo’s inexperience with Survivor heartbreak prove to be his secret weapon, or will old-school players’ battle scars give them the edge? And is it finally time for new themes to return to Survivor? Chapters: 0:00 Mary Holland Returns to Survivor 6:59 Survivor’s Role in Mary’s Life 10:17 Playing Quarantine Island 16:47 Emotional Impact of Survivor 19:28 Coach’s Return, Women’s Storylines 24:40 Rizo’s Survivor Advantage 29:01 Survivor Themes and Viewer Connection 35:04 Handling Feedback and Reddit 39:51 Mary’s Pitch for Survivor Themes 46:52 Tribal Council Tension and Strategy 49:05 Human Stacking Challenge Proposal 53:37 Cirie’s Lightness After Australia 55:00 Mary’s Advantage Ideas 1:03:02 Survivor 50 Favorites 1:12:00 Mary and Rob’s Traitors Experience 1:19:25 Ghosts vs. Alive: Theme Idea To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hey, everybody. What's going on? Rob Sustreneal back with you. And we are, we are so lucky today because we have with us such a great guest making a return to R.HAP after some time. But we're so excited to have it back with us star of television and podcasts and movies and such a funny lady here with us. Of course, you know her from her. her works in the happiest season, ghosts, and soon to be in the reboot of Little House on the Prairie, it's Mary Holland. Mary, how are you? Hi, Rob. Oh, ding. Ding. Wow.

It's as wonderful as I imagined it would be. It's so nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted. Okay, well, it is wonderful to have you here with us. I know everybody is very excited for you to come on and talk a little Survivor 50. And we're pulling out all the stops here in Survivor 50. Yeah, no stops.

It's full, full steam ahead. Don't stop believing. Insight. You never stop believing. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah. So, yeah, and much like you, the survivors, they also go on a journey.

And so we are going to talk about your survivor journey and so much more. Yeah, I'm delighted. Yeah, I'm ready to dig in. Yeah. Yes, I was just telling Rob before we. started recording that, I saw Journey in concert. And so he's really doing such a great job of weaving that into this introductory conversation. So Mary, how are you? Very faithfully. Yes, faithfully. Yes. And we welcome you with open arms here to the podcast. So. Thank you so much. Mary, how are you doing?

I'm good. I'm good. I'm, I'm really loving this, this season. I'm loving, oh, I'm just, I, I, All the takes that I've been taken about it, I fully agree with, which is the returning players are, we need more of that. It's so clearly a recipe for wonderful storytelling that I'm just loving watching all these players come back, all the theme of the sort of old wounds from the times you played before and how you're going to approach it differently this time and how, you know, you get. you get you can't help but be who you are um i just think there's something really beautiful about that we're seeing unfold with these characters and their stories as they these i know they're not character i know this is infictional but they're tv characters to us they're real people and they're having a real thing but to us they're tv characters that's right that's how we're absorbing them yeah exactly okay thank you um so yeah so yeah so i'm having a great time so that uh

this is not your first time on RJP, you went to, you were in, you checked into the RJP B&B with Mike and Leanna twice before in season, season David versus Goliath, so very relevant. And then also my favorite season. In season 39, also the last episode before the verge. And I wanted to know, do you have any open wounds from your previous time on RHAP that you're here that may be still affecting in some way on this podcast? Well, you know, it's a great question because I do feel like I tend to get really excited when I talk about Survivor. And I'm not the most, I just did it. I'm not the most articulate person when it comes to connecting thought to word. And so I remember my past two experiences on the B&B having such a great time with them, but then feeling afterwards like, wow. I really need to work on how I communicate my thoughts and feelings.

It's happening right now. Doing it better, you know, coming in with insights and ideas and being able to voice those in a way that feels like I got my point across. So that's what I'm looking to correct here today. That seems so surprising to me. And so far I'm sweating. I'm sweating. that you have such a storied background in improv.

I wonder, is that a different skill set than talking on a podcast? Yeah. Well, yes, because I think it's not one because I would not be great at improv, just because I talk on a podcast. Oh, I think you would be. Very to differ. No, I think you would be. But I guess when I'm talking as myself, I have much less confidence than when I'm in a scene

and there's sort of a base reality that I'm buying into that isn't this current reality where I am who I am. I'm able to just sort of, yeah, I guess it is like a different part of my brain gets activated. And when I'm speaking as a character, I feel so much more at ease than when I'm speaking as myself. And, you know. Could you improvise, though, as a character who was like a knowledgeable survivor person or does it not work like that? It doesn't work like that. I have to, listen, there are times when I short circuit in an improv scene if I have to play a surgeon, which happens so much. I'm playing a surgeon and I'm being asked medical advice and you have to come up with that.

And see, you would be great at it, Rob. And so I, and then I will fall into my, you know, I will sort of lose steam, I guess, in the improvising if I have to come up with a lot of jargon on the spot, for example. But if you're asking me to come in as a character with a specific emotional angle, then I could really lean into it. And then maybe I could, that would, you know, keep my verbal boat afloat so I could power through. indulging me on that. I do think it's really, really interesting. And, you know, I really think a lot about how sometimes in real life,

you know, sometimes we can just try to be, if not actually ready for a moment, like how do we just pretend that we are the right person in that particular spot? And I find myself doing that a lot. But let's talk about your survivor history with the show

because I'm always curious to know how people discover the show and And what Survivor has meant to you over the years? Well, I'm so excited. You ask anybody who knows me well, and they will tell you that Survivor is a pillar of my identity. It really, I came to it, I guess, at a very pivotal age in my development as a young adult, and I really crystallized around it. I remember watching the first season when it came out. I was a teenager and my parents watched it.

My parents have been fans this whole time too and so they stay consistent and watched it from the first season on. But I watched the first season, didn't really know what was going on and didn't come back to it until I was in my early 20s. And I was in living in Los Angeles and I had just recently moved. I hadn't quite found my community yet. I was very lonely. And I came back to Survivor somehow and I started watching Micronesia.

And I watched that season. And it was like the world opened up to me. And ever since I have been absolutely devoted to this show and the game, I consumed all the seasons that were available to watch, all the ones that came before 16, all the ones that came after.

And I will talk to anybody, anybody who doesn't know Survivor or isn't a fan of Survivor in my life, they find themselves involuntarily cornered by me and I'm just raving to them about how brilliant it is and how much it means to be. It really does mean so much to me.

And so, yeah, that's kind of my, my history with the show itself. Do you make these people that you then are telling them all about the show? Do you make them watch? I encourage them to. I don't, you know, sit them down next to me on the couch. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't. And I have the equipment to do that, but I don't do that to them. That's a lot of restraint. To have it. It is. Oh, it's so tough. But, you know. But yeah, I do encourage.

them too. And I actually now I, because inevitably, whenever I have these conversations with people who don't watch Survivor or aren't familiar with it, then the question always comes of, would you ever play? And my answer even before the experience I had in the pandemic would have been, I don't think, I don't think I, I don't think, I don't think I could. I'm a bit too much I wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm a little too gullible, but then also I'm a little too earnest. And so, yeah, and then I discovered a lot in the pandemic. Yeah.

When I got a more intimate relationship. Yeah, tell us about that, that you were somebody who was playing in an online survivor game during the pandemic. Yes, this game was created by my friend Kelsey Krasnogor, and it was called Quarantine Island. And the setup of it was so brilliant. She did five seasons of it. And I played the second season. And basically how it worked was we would be, all the players would be divided onto tribes on Slack channels. And so we could only communicate within.

in our Slack channel. So you couldn't message with the other tribe. And then you also, all of your conversations happened over Slack. So there were no, there were no in-person face-to-face, or no like Zoom face-to-face conversations between players, except for when we did the tribal councils and the challenges. And so then we were all on Zoom. And it was, my heart's racing just thinking about it.

So, you know, in thinking about season 50 and the season of old wounds, I so understand. And I didn't even go and play Survivor the way these people did. And all the hats I own are off to you and them and everybody who's ever played the game. Because this online version, it, let me tell you, you really learn who you are playing a game like this. I think, and not to say, you know, I played a more intense version than anybody who's gone to the island to play it. You don't know that. You don't know that. You don't know that. Well, the reason is because only being able to communicate over Slack, which I'm sure your listeners know what that is, but I guess it's mostly used for businesses, right? It's like an online messaging. Yeah, yeah. And only being able to communicate over Slack means that I could be having a conversation with you and a conversation with Brandon and you would have no idea I'm having a conversation with both of you.

So it's not like, you know, you would physically see me go off on a walk with whoever. There are multiple conversations happening. It just really, it was like it made the paranoia leap to this quantum level. It was so intense. and then I think I made several strange decisions. Okay. And one of which was, so I had found a Hindu Muni Idol, and I actually voted for someone,

and then Kelsey, who was our host as well, asked if anybody had an immunity idol, and then I played it for the person I voted for. So, you know, so, and that was like a really weird move, and it actually blew up my closest alliance. and everybody was confused by it, and I was confused by it, too. But explain why, what do you gain out of that? Well, my thinking at the time, so here, oh, yeah.

This is your exit interview. This is your deep dive. Okay, okay. Okay. Oh, God, do we only have 10 minutes? Okay, so basically what had happened, and this goes back to the slack of it all, there was a plan in place. I was part of an alliance.

I had my closest alliance, and then I was part of a larger six-person alliance. We had all just come back together. It was post-merge, and there was a plan in place to get out the biggest threat in the game. She thought one plan was happening. She was communicating with all of us in this six-person alliance. And shout out, Brittany. She ended up winning that season. She's a brilliant player.

But there was a plan in place to get her out, and she had thought a different. plan was happening and she wrote if you know anything about how slack chains work it's like the names are all in order on the so believe me i know what it's like to be in a million different slack messages it's like oh this is the one that doesn't have this person exactly um okay yeah so so I had sent a message to the wrong group. Mm-hmm. And I tried, then I really dug myself into a hole because then I tried deleting that message, but she had already seen it.

And so then the entire game blew apart at that moment. It was total chaos. Nobody was talking to me. And the vote was coming my way. And then it went not my way. and then one of my alliance members was throwing my name out, and then another one wasn't. And so basically what happened was I voted with my closest ally

to get this one person out, but I wanted him to stay in the game because the other guy had thrown my name out. So that was my reasoning. I don't know if this is too complicated to follow. Listen, what I'm getting from you, yeah. Well, I'm getting from you is what a passionate survivor fan you are, how seriously you take the game.

And then also I'm seeing like these emotions wash up for you. And this is a game for you. We'll talk about open wounds. It seems like that these wounds are almost as fresh as the day that they happened six years ago. Oh my gosh. It's so true. And I say all this because you asked. But then also because I do want to like highlight for fans of this show.

who maybe have never played the game itself, of course, but I've never played a version of it, where these wounds are so real and they hit so close to home. It's kind of hard to imagine until you go through a version of it. But I really learned things about myself that, like, I came out of that and I didn't get over it for months. I had angered people, I, which, you know, also if you know anything about me, I really need people to like me.

And if that's a trait you have, this is not a great game for you to play. I can't handle people being mad at me. And so then I had to really confront that aspect of who I am and unpack the psychology behind that. And I still haven't really successfully done that or addressed that. But yeah. So I really get it. Do you feel like, Mary, did you gain anything out of this experience? Did it change you in any positive ways?

I think, I mean, it did in that I became acquainted with a whole other layer of myself that I think if you're not in a position where you're being challenged in this specific way, you might not learn this about yourself, being forced to have developed these meaningful relationships with people and then also play at the same time a game that is inherently you have to act in your own self-interest in order to do well in the game. Having those things conflict, I think, reveals who you are to yourself and how you handle these interpersonal relationships, how you feel about yourself. All of that comes to the surface. And so that in a positive, light, that was really great for me to know and discover about myself.

Okay. So now you have all this experience with being a survivor player. And now you can certainly that probably shouldn't be the headline. No, that's not. But I thought that you're. But I played it. Yeah. I played a version of it. But I really felt like that your definition of what you got out of Survivor is I think that maybe even better than Jeff himself is able to do sometimes of like what that means to have gone through the survivor experience of how do I balance like making the relationships but also not forgetting myself and how do I come out of this experience and and then you know function and ultimately thrive in that I think there's a great survivor lesson yeah and also being able to hold other people's uh disappointment anger frustration

sadness at your actions. Like I really, that was really, really tough for me. And I think, you know, all these players who can really play the game and hold space for that and not take it personally, I'm just in awe of because, boy, did I take it personally. It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets begin your next chapter book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent westjet where your story takes off let's talk about survivor 50 and i want to get your thoughts on everything that's going on here so i know you said that you've really been enjoying it um are there any storylines in particular that you've really enjoyed i i have been so delighted to see coach back and

as someone, one of the most profound experiences I had watching Survivor was that scene between Tyson and Coach in Heroes versus Villains where Coach came to Tyson in this raw human moment of why do people make fun of me? I mean, I could cry just thinking about it. And Tyson really trying to give him honest feedback. and try to help him in this way. My love for coach was instilled from even before that moment, but that moment really solidified it for me.

And watching him be back and play, he's someone, you know, in the pantheon of players, he's a player that I think cannot help but be exactly who he is. Like even if he's aspiring to be something different or something, you know, come out at a different angle. It always comes back to him being him. He just can't help that, and none of us can. And so I getting to see that play out with him, I'm just, I'm loving it so much.

I just think he's a very authentic person. And I think people respond to him for that reason. Other storylines, I'm loving. I'm really curious what's going to happen with Aubrey and Genevieve. I'm, you know, very into that. And I was very bummed to see Angelina go. She's another player that I love her authenticity. She's, you know, in addition to how smart she is, how well-spoken she is.

There's so much I wish I had seen from her. But I also hear her point about there's several women in the season so far who we haven't really gotten to hear from. And so I'm really holding out hope that the second half of the season will feature more of these stories because I got to know what's going on with Tiffany. I want to know what's happening. With Emily, I want to know her perspective on things. Yeah. I think that there's like a bunch of different things at play there. I think in the case of Angelina, I have said from the, and you listen to the know-it-olds multiple times, you know that I said, why, why do we, why do we bring

back Angelina to not have more Angelina? Angelina. I will never know, I will never know the answer to this question of why why didn't we get more of her story? And I really was very disappointed that we didn't get more of Angelina's arc. I totally agree. Yeah. Because the first time she played,

I remember watching her jaw dropped because she was so unabashed about how she, her approach to the game. Like it was so unapologetic and at time, like so funny. at times and so interesting and unique at others and like her the negotiation with the rice and the moment with the jacket and that all in the same way I love watching coach I just I loved

watching her her specific approach to this game and these relationships and so I was I really missed it this time I really miss that we didn't get to see more of that um yeah so I was bombed. Yeah, and it's only five episodes in that the, that is not been, but I do want to say like for people, and maybe I haven't, I haven't said this as cleanly as I would have liked to have said it, but I felt like that, that you could have somebody have a big, the next episode, somebody, you know, Tiffany could have six confessionals. And then the, exactly.

So I just think that like with, that, you ideally, you know, you could look at trends now, but the picture isn't fully painted yet. You still have like, because I don't feel like that they will try to give everyone their story by the end of it. Maybe it's not the full, you know, from day one to day 26 story. But I do think that they do try to give everybody their arc over the course of the season. Yeah. And I think there's some people that haven't come in. And frankly, they're probably in over their heads.

a little bit with 24 people of like, I don't really know how to do this. And especially if that tribe is not going to tribal council, you kind of have to focus on the vote that's at hand and how that's telling the story of that. So I totally get that. And I think you made a great

point about Genevieve in her first season. You know, we didn't hear so much from her pre-merge and then she exploded. She exploded. Yeah, she exploded. And so I'm hopeful that once everybody's on the same beach and they're all playing and it's all one vote that we're following with this

group. I'm really hopeful that more stories will get woven in. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. How about with this week, we saw this storyline about Charlie wanting to pay back Rizzo for not voting for his number one ally, even though that he did. But it was for Charlie, a big focus of why he wanted Rizzo out. Yeah, and I really, and I'm curious, you know, hearing his exit interview and hearing that, you know, for him this was the, this was an aspect of it, but wasn't the sole focus for him, it sounds like, of why he was driving that vote. But I think it does get maybe to the emotional core of what was behind it. And so I really understand this idea of not wanting to repeat the mistakes that led to, you know, whatever your first outcome was. And I think for him it was trusting someone who, or trusting an outcome was going to happen that didn't.

And his approach this time was, okay, how can I eliminate that before it's even a factor? Like I sort of didn't think of it as he's punishing Rizzo. I think it's more he's taking out someone who he thinks it's maybe going to make him repeat the mistake from his first go-round. So, yeah, and then also Rizzo's just, God, Rizzo's really good. I also think even without these wounds from the past, I think Charlie targeting Rizzo makes so much sense because Rizzo is so he's so adept at moving, moving between groups, at creating these relationships. He is a dangerous player to have in the game if you're not with him. And so, yeah.

Do you think that Rizzo might have an advantage over the other players that are still in the game in that Rizzo is so still in it, he does not know what his wounds are? He has not had good time for anything to heal over and scab and and smash at it. like he's still kind of like Russell used to say like I didn't play Survivor two times. I played one time. And that kind of is the case with Risgod. Yeah. Yes. I do think he that is an advantage for him because I also think and I think this was made on your podcast network about this as well, which is that he also hasn't gotten the experience of reading commentary from people. of like experiencing the listeners, the listeners of Survivor weighing in on the moves you make, the moves you don't make, like their impression of you,

how they're annoyed by you or how they're, how they love you, or, you know, all of that I think goes into shaping how you approach it when you come back into the game. And in fact, I had this thought and then I was like, there'd be no way one could do this. But I was like, is there something too? to creating some sort of sequester for the players of Survivor

where they actually don't get any sort of... I guess this would be more for if you're like, you know, playing... If you know you're going to be playing more than one season, but you get sequestered from any kind of online commentary about your game at all. And what would a player then be like when they come back into the game?

It's really just them reflecting on their game and they have no outside influence. What would that look like? And can we make it happen? And can you make it happen? So we want to maybe play Survivor 51 and Survivor 52. We're going to have the same people back to back or just one person is like we're going to pick our All-Stars out of Survivor 51 that are going to be back on Survivor 52. Yeah, yeah, that's good.

So we're going to have like our Risgod and Savannah. who are going to come from 51 and come into 52. But we're going to sequester them so that they don't really know. I mean, I don't even think it would air. So I don't think that they would actually, I don't think we'd even need to do that. Right. Yeah. Right, right, right.

That's true. Yeah. But I guess the larger point I was getting at was, was how can we, is there a way that we can manufacture for these players a sort of shield where they're just in the purity of the game experience, which I guess is what Rizzo is. Rizzo and Savannah both were that. And I do think it gives them an advantage. You know, you want to run it back with like one or two people who's like,

okay, this person's a real fan favorite. It's like, hey, you want to just stay in Fiji and play again, go, you know? The fans will like it. Or years later, or years later play again, but in that time you can't go on social media. And people would be able to adhere to that. So we'll keep them in like some like they'll send them to like the space station or something for like two years and bring the back. I think that's reasonable and I think that's affordable and doable. I think so.

I think so. Yes, but I did have that thought about them of, of, I think that's a massive advantage for Rizzo and Savannah initially because it's also a disadvantage because you sort of, you do, I think, alter how you approach things to in a more positive way. Yeah. maybe to you would think it would be an advantage of like hey I'm going to get all this feedback in terms of what other people are saying about me and it's going to help me but I think in a lot of ways I think it makes you doubt yourself and get into your head is is that anything that comes up in your work where that I'm sure that there must be online commentary about things and everybody's curious to see it and do you find it any way it ever hampers you

reading too much? Well, I do try to avoid reading much at all, but sometimes my ego can't help itself. Yeah. And I remember I did a sketch for Funny or Die years ago that went up on YouTube and I made the terrible mistake of reading the YouTube comments. And one of them was about me, one of the comments was, is that Bill Hater? and so which I thought was actually very funny

and you know I did I did I guess look like Bill Hader or do look like Bill Hader a bit but but yeah I think I try not to take in that the negative stuff because it will get me in my head for sure and it's kind of ignorance is definitely bliss when you're trying

to perform Yeah. It's hard because I love to get feedback, you know, and so... Do you? Do you? Yeah, I do. And I know not everybody does. I do love to get feedback.

Yeah, I think that's amazing. Even when it's negative, I feel like, okay, you know, like, I try to take something. Like, obviously, if there's negative feedback, like, you know, there's something, there's some sort of, like, miscommunication there. And so I do try to take it in. I think there's a difference between, like, like, hate and, you know, there's a difference. feedback. Yeah.

Yes, that's true. That's true. But they're in the same place. They are in the same place. They are in the same place. We're in such an interesting time where in the in the 90s when I wasn't even born yet. In the 90s like you. from what I've heard is that you would just make art and put it out there.

Your movie would come out and you'd get the like formal reviews from whatever publication. And that's sort of how you gauged. And then you have the box office, you know, numbers. And that's how you gauge how well people received it. But now we, people have a direct line to the actors themselves, the directors, the, the, the writers. There's a way to directly let. someone know what you thought about what they did. And so that level of feedback, I think it is different when you're when you're creating art and you're sort of putting as opposed to like, you know,

this is how I handle myself in a professional setting. I definitely want that feedback. But I think if I'm, if I'm putting out a piece of art that I made, it's a different thing like, you know, I think I also as an actor, a lot of the feedback you're getting is thoughts about your face. So it's the things I can't really control. I mean, I guess I could look more Bill Hatery if I wanted to. If you wanted to, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, but anyway, the aspect, things that are outside of your control, or it's like a specific artistic approach, something you're trying to communicate with your art. It can be difficult to get feedback on that. But if I may just rave at you for a moment, I so appreciate that quality about you because I have listened to it.

I've heard it over the years as I've listened to your podcast, you being so open and receptive to other people's insights and feedback and opinions. And I just, I really think, and this is not no hyperbole, I really think you're a force for good in this world. and what you're doing is really, it really brings so much light to my life and other people's lives, all your listeners, we're so devoted to you, I think, because you are such an excellent host, and then you're also just a person who's constantly trying to grow. And that's really inspiring. Thank you so much, Mary. I really appreciate that.

I feel like in a lot of ways I'm like the customer service department for Survivor in a lot of ways. And so I end up, like, you know, listening on a lot of the feedback for Survivor, where Survivor itself is not always open to feedback. But, you know, it's not always easy. But I do feel like I do try, like, both on and off the podcast, I do try, enjoy trying to get better at the things that I do. Yeah. And also, and I think that's such a great point where you're also. filtering, you're taking someone's opinion and you're also sort of parsing it out with them

and repackaging it in a way that it could be then sent up to whoever's in charge of making the decisions at Survivor. And it could be presented as this is an interesting thing, whereas maybe it came in really raw and really emotional and you do such a great job of like re-verbalizing it, repackaging it so that it's a digestible, helpful piece of information, I think. I know that probably people want me to be angrier on certain things when, you know, people, and I do sense that, like, there's a lot of anger out there around Survivor, but I feel like at the end of the day, you know, I feel like that I make a show for people who really love Survivor, and I do try to, you know, like, we, like, sometimes, like, need to have, like, an interesting.

intervention with Survivor, like, hey, sit down, we love you, but you need to hear some hard truths and stuff like that. Yes, yes. But, like, I'm not going to probably be the person who, like, I'll yell about stupid stuff. Like, and we love that. Like, the dumbest of things, like, you know, but, like, I definitely, you know, understand when, you know, people are, you know, not feeling certain things about the show. Yeah. As do I. Yeah. And I, I really, and I, I often go on the Survivor Reddit and read people's, you know, I don't chime in myself, but I do read people their comments and their takes on where they are angry. You read people like that you read them for filth.

Yeah. What you could probably tell from talking to me is like I'm really capable of that. I'm really, really capable of that. But you're so hardcore that you go to the Survivor Reddit. Yes, and I read. I read people's takes because there's so, there's so many smart people out there and people have great insights into the game and there's a lot of emotion because I think, you know, as people are right and have these conversations on Reddit, they're looking to have a place of catharsis where they can work through their feelings about what they just saw and what their thoughts on it are. And I just really enjoy going through and reading that because it does. I find it is it's cathartic for me as well, even just reading people, you know, having their strong opinions about things. But I think when it comes to actually, you know, putting content out there that everyone in the world is going to take in, then there, you have a duty.

There's a responsibility to like not, not lead with the emotional part of it because it's actually that's not ultimately constructive. Mary, I know that you... Oh my God, is it over? No, no, no, no. I was going to ask you, I know you have very strong feelings about the themes of Survivor. Yes, I do. And I too have said that I think that the themes need to come back in the 50s.

Oh, I miss them so much. I think, and I didn't realize it, you know, until we had so many seasons. where we had no theme. And all the players in the new era, so great, so many great players, so many great characters. I couldn't, they are all, you know, it's all awash to me because I need, and this could just be my brain, but I need some sort of central story that's anchoring me in the season and that I'm seeing, the lens through which I'm seeing all these players, you know. Here's what I want you to do, okay?

All right, because I know Jeff listens to the entertainment glitterati of Hollywood. Okay. Oh, God, nobody won't listen to me. I'm going to ask you to make the pitch for Survivor to have themes again. Okay. So that Jeff Probst will hear you and listen. Okay, first of all, hi, Jeff. I love you.

I admire you so much. Thank you for all your work. And I just want to say that I really appreciate something I really appreciated about what you've done with Survivor is that you keep trying new things. You keep looking to evolve this game that we love so much. And I really appreciate that. And I think it actually would work in favor of that approach if we revisit the idea of theming these seasons because it helps orient your viewers in a sense. central story. Whereas when we don't have one, we're sort of, we're flapping in the wind. We're catching on to some stories, but we need a central anchoring point and a theme would provide us with that. It also helps, I think, the players ground themselves from the jump in a game. I think, you know, it helps them build a part of their identity within this game that informs how they play in a really empowering way. And then my other argument for this, Jeff, and thank you so much

again for your time. I love you. I don't know if I said that before, but I really love you. I just need you to hear that. But then I also need you to hear this other argument for theming the seasons, which is that there's an opportunity here in this time of such discord, such polar, polarity, there is an opportunity here to bring together different philosophies, different ideologies, different worldviews, and having the players themselves and then us as the viewers watch people be able to bridge these enormous gaps that seem like they'll never be able to be abridged. And so to that end, I just, I just want to thank you again for your time.

And I just, I really hope that this inspires this. And let me just delete all that and then just say, and I really hope that this inspires change in this direction for you as you approach season 51 and beyond. Wow. Sincerely, Mary. That was very well done. Oh, thank you.

I'm really sweating. Okay. If I could give some feedback, I think maybe it would have also included. The theme is going to be a hit with families who watch the show. Yes. And also Gen Z and Emmy voters. I think that that could also, but I think, you know, 9.5 out of 10. Yeah.

Well, and I do have my finger on the pulse of, you know, the Gen Z experience. And so I really could have spoken to that. And I should have. Yeah. Anyway. What did you think of Jeff's impressions this week? Did you enjoy that? Well, I thought they were great.

I mean, he's clearly a wonderful impressionist. I mean, as are you. And I think I sort of was like, we're spending, this is, we're spending time on this in a way that I want to see his impressions in their own. You know, I want to see, I want to see Jeff's impressions and all Jeff's additional skills, wrapping everything. I do want that content. But I think how can we, I didn't need it, I guess, in that moment, you know. I'm already following a story and his impressions were so good.

It took me out of it. You know, it made me want more impressions. Yeah. Does that make sense? Jeff is really showcasing his talents of like being such a. multi-hyphen it here on Survivor of like, he raps, he does impressions, he's going to do challenges, like he's really just such a Renaissance man. He's such a Renaissance man. And it doesn't surprise me one bit. Like I've always thought that about him. But in watching earlier seasons of

Survivor, the thing that was so interesting to me about Jeff was he was actually, he was quite removed as a host emotionally. And then also he sort of didn't, he never showed his cards about what he thought about what was happening. He just kind of really deftly navigated the conversation and, you know, sort of led the conversation in a way that that highlighted these players' feelings and thoughts without him himself expressing his thoughts or feelings. And so it's interesting to watch that change as well with him and watch him really just enjoy the spotlight a bit more. Yeah. He's gone through such an evolution from the

he has. He has. And do you like it when spicy Jeff comes out? Oh yeah. Of course. I love. Oh, yeah. I mean, I want the hard hitting questions to be asked because I want that.

And I also want that for the players because it helps them then kick it up a notch in their in their gameplay, I think. Yeah. I want to watch them be challenged. Yeah. I do. Yes. Yes.

It should be a little more tense. Yes. I think so. Yes. I think it is, I think overall, and as someone who is by nature, playful, and I love it when people are playful, in Survivor, I think there's a time and a place for playfulness. And I miss the sort of sense of ceremony and the sacredness, the solemnness of we're about to send someone home.

We're about to lie and deceive and all of this stuff. And I really want to see the weight of that, I think. Mary, how were you at Zoom Tribal Council? Were you yucking it up? Or were you, like, deadly serious at Zoom Tribal Council? Oh, somewhere in between. I wasn't yucking it up, but humor is definitely a defense mechanism. So I kind of can't help, but get goofy. And so there were times when questions were directed at me where I just remember all my focus was just on give as vague an answer as possible, answer the question without answering the question, you know, to sort of be able to sidestep any heat on me. one way or the other. Yeah.

Well, I do think it's a subtle thing that the really savvy players are onto where if you could get tribal counsel turning into anything else but a discussion of what's happening, like, around the camp or around the vote, you know, if Jeff's talking about going to club condo and doing a full tilt buggy and, like, if you can get, like, derail Jeff in any way where then he's not asking questions that are going to, especially like you know you're going to blindside somebody and you know there's like a big, a big vote coming up, sure. Like the more you can sort of filibuster the small talk with nonsense and jokes and gags, that really behooves the person who is going to be doing.

And if you sort of like are sitting there, it's like, boy, everybody's having like, and I could tell you from my, not that this was intentional on anybody's part, but the tribal council where I went home. of our All-Stars. Like, we spent 40 minutes talking about Robin Amber's relationship. Yeah. Yeah. So there, yeah.

So there is like a strategic, you know, benefit to it. But I think, I think it's become such the norm that that tribals are our time to just kind of socialize with Jeff. that yeah I mean I guess you you do still you know you do still get away with blinds hiding somebody hiding within that but but I just I want people to be put on the spot you know I guess kind of what I want to see and this maybe isn't fair to the players but I do want to see them wrestle with trying to answer a question while trying to keep certain information back It's just, it's very, it's very interesting to watch that play out. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice.

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Well, I, you know, I specifically think there's one challenge that comes to my mind where I'm like winning more challenges like that. Like what? And I think it was in season 49 and maybe you'll be able to correct me. this, but it was a challenge where they had to, they had to create basically a human tower to go to reach something or put a block on top of a structure. And my husband and I were watching that and we're both like, we need more of this kind of challenge where, and I don't even know how you would characterize that challenge, but it was, everybody was involved.

A human stacking challenge. I guess that's what I'm saying is I want more human stacking challenges. but where there wasn't one particular skill set we were relying on. It's not like one person who's physically strong could carry the whole team in it. It's not like a puzzle solver could really just knock a puzzle out. It was like it called on everybody to participate and no specific skill set was better than the other. They had to like stack up certain like the blocks to a certain height. And then at the very end you needed somebody on somebody else's shoulders.

I feel like MC was up there like trying to put the last piece up there. Yes, I loved that. I loved the all hands on deck. Everybody's in the mix. And I also, there is, of course, a place for the different phases of a challenge. And this challenge calls on this set of skills. And this other aspect of it calls on another set of skills. And how does your tribe navigate that?

But I really want, you know, I watch a lot of Australian Survivor, too. Okay, yes. And those challenges are really, some of them downright dangerous. But I kind of miss the sort of, let's get everybody in the mix. It's really messy. It's really primal. It's really sort of your, it's tapping more into, I think, the survival part of it. Right.

I think that that is a consistent comparison that people prefer the physicality of the Australian Survivor challenges. I think that there might be some, like I try not to pick at U.S. Survivor too much or pick on U.S. I think it's, I think it has more to do with like insurance issues in terms of Of course, which I understand. Why they don't do it as opposed to a preference. But I do think having more of a variety in the challenges, I think that people really like that.

Because it does feel like that. In the pre-merge, almost everything is like a big race. And then in the post-merge, everything is like, all right, get ready, set, stand still. Yeah. And I would just be curious to see if they took that approach of, okay, we're doing, a challenge where every single person has to be involved in the same activity. What could that be? What does that look like?

And I think you might get Max drama from that as well. Are you current on the Australian Survivor Redemption? No, I haven't started watching it. I love JLP. So I haven't started watching it yet. I'm actually just now finishing up. I've been going back and- Are you boy?

Australian Survivor because of your love of JLP. No, I won't boycott. No, I'll watch it. But I'm still kind of working my way through the seasons that came before. I'm currently watching, finishing up Blood versus Water, where Sandra and Nina went back to play. Have you watched Australian Survivor versus the World or you have not gotten to that yet? Yes. You did see it.

No, I've seen that. Okay. Did you notice anything different about Surrey in season 50 after playing on Australian Survivor versus the world? I think Oh God Surrey is one of my all-time favorite players and she has such consistency

with her approach but I do think that there is a she always has also this level of joy in her play. There's a real ease about her, a real joy

and I sense a lightness in her this time around. She's never been someone who has a darkness or heaviness to her, but, but I sense a real sense of play and delight in her. And I wonder if maybe the Australia versus Survivor Experience, or Australia versus the world survivor experience, um, I, in some ways relieved a bit of pressure. And I don't, I don't really know what I am articulating by that, by saying that. But I think that would, it seemed like a very positive experience for her. And so now

there's this feeling of her going back. I mean, like, I'm having fun. You know. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to have fun. I think that that's really important. Yeah, you have to.

I try to, you know, remind myself in all aspects of my life. But I think that, particularly in Survivor, I think that it's very hard to win Survivor or do well on Survivor when you're joyless about the experience. Yes. And I know that I'm saying this on the heels of saying, I want more. solemnity, but I do think you do have to have a sense of curiosity, I think, and play and fun will get you so far in life, having a sense of all three of those things. And in Survivor, I think you have to have that because otherwise you could get mired in the muck of it all,

in the emotions of it all. Yeah, you sort of have to keep bringing yourself back to that compass. Because you have no energy, you're beaten down to such a degree on Survivor. And so if it's not fun, you don't have the will to do anything, to like do all the things you need to do. You have to be enjoying, you know, it can be, I know, Keith Nail famously said, Survivor's not fun. Going on a cruise is fun. Playing golf is fun. But, you know, Keith Nail also never won Survivor. You got to be enjoying it.

You do. And then, but at the same time, though, Robin, you tell me how you feel about this. I also, I find it so refreshing when people get genuinely upset about what happened in the game. You know, what the hell, guys? I find those moments. I think all of us are like, yes, like somebody said the thing that I would be feeling, were I in that person's position? And, like, I don't think we need to make the pendulum swing all the way back to where people really got so mad and were so venomous in how they spoke to each other.

But I wouldn't mind a little more genuine feeling about, you know, what's going on. You don't have to have fun getting voted out. Like, Survivor should be, you should be having so much fun that you get mad when somebody's ending. What do you mean? You're ending the fun for me. Yeah. That's exactly right.

We're not like that. I agree. Okay, so then do you have any ideas for advantages they could be doing on Survivor? Yeah, I do. I mean, you know, I am under no. I don't think anybody is going to be naming a Mary Holland advantage. What would the Mary Holland Advantage be? Well, my idea for one was a sharing, I have two.

One is a sharing is caring advantage. where you, I don't know what the advantage of self is. Maybe it's an extra vote. Maybe it's an idol. But the, the, the, my idea of it is you have to, in order to activate it, you have to share that information with at least three people. Three people. So, yes, in order for it, for the advantage to become active, you have to share the information. And I'm someone who's like, keep advantage of secret.

But that, I was just like, what's a fun? And, you know, we're theming these advantages. So sharing is caring was an idea I had. Now, does that have any tie-in to you specifically? Is that personally branded to anything in your work? It's really not, I guess, except in that I'm a really codependent person. And I'm sort of an overshare. And I do need people to really approve of and validate me.

And so I guess that's what it's rooted. Embarrassingly, Mary. I thought it was the Billy Elish boomerang idol. I was like, oh, okay. I guess Billy Elish must have some hit song, Boomerang. That must be one of her hits. That would make so much sense. Yeah.

And I came to find out like, no. I think it's just alliteration. I think it has. Oh, boy. Oh, man. Well, and who know, maybe we're inspiring her to write Boomerang. Maybe. Because that's a great song title, honestly.

I'm surprised there isn't already a boomerang song. Me too. Yeah, there's a there's something there with the Billy Ilish boomerang idol that it feels like we didn't quite, we didn't quite. I appreciate bringing in the other audiences, like wanting to tie Billy Eilish's audience in with the Survivor audience. Like get more eyes on Survivor. I'm all for that. And I love the idea that Billy, I call her Billy, because we're friends, that she chose, I think I, from what I understood, she chose from a list of advance. So I love the idea of her looking over this list and choosing one and all of that.

But I think, I don't think we really need her name on it. I think that could just be the story behind it, you know what I mean? Because otherwise we're all like, where's the Billy Eilish part of this? When does that come in? like I want that story to be revealed at the finale or something like hey little did you know this boomerang advantage was selected by billy ilish and here she is to sing her next song yes boomerang for me or boomerang oh my gosh it'd be such a hit um but yeah but i had an idea for another advantage um and this is kind of inspired by is something I think is interesting on Australian Survivor is they do a lot of like,

so you think you're voting someone else, but guess what? They're going straight to the other tribe. And so one advantage I thought of was what? Classic non-alimination episode of Australian Survivor. Classic. Classic. One thought I had was what if someone found an advantage

where they have the option to swap with someone on the other tribe? So they could, I don't know where maybe you can help workshop this with me. I don't know they play it at tribal council. Well, maybe not because they have to, you know, they still have to go through the vote. But when they return from tribal council, maybe they can play an advantage where they're like,

guess what? I'm switching with so-and-so on the other tribe. And that's what's happening. So it could be, it could work in the favor of someone who's on the bottom. Yeah. Or, and I guess that's the only person who it would work for. Okay. So this is interesting.

I like this. Okay. It doesn't have to be me. Could I switch with another person and then it's just like, I just got a nut. Hey, I just got to know I have to go to the other tribe. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to pick who comes back.

Yes, yes. That's what I think it is. You get to pick who you swap with. So it's like, okay, I'm going to use this and I'm going to send, okay, Camilla, you're on the other team and Jonathan, you're on my team. Could I do that? Yeah. Oh, I see.

So where you're not involved at all. I'm not about it at all. I'm like, hey, what the hell? Who did that? That was weird. That's good. That's good because then you can really play it off just like that. And people would be like, yeah, that's totally fine.

Yeah, no, I think you would have to, you would have to be the person who is swapped, but you could pick who swaps. I guess, yeah, because it could be kind of overpowered if I could just pick somebody physically. Oh, too much power. But you could give the advantage to somebody else. You could like give it to someone who you see is on the bottom. And you're like, really? How do you? Yes, I do.

And I just don't know how we figure out the mechanic. Are you picking the person to send back just randomly? Like is it, that's the part of. Gosh, that is tricky. Because it does, it does get. Again, maybe has too much power where you, or so maybe it's just an advantage where you have the option to defect your tribe. Your tribe and go to the other tribe. Yeah.

What if everybody from the other tribes, name is in a bag and I'm going to switch to the other tribe and then I'm going to pull out this person. That's good. Yeah, that's good. Although you might make an enemy for the rest of the game I guess. Yeah, because they would know it was you.

Mary switched and sent me here. No, I'd be like, it wasn't me. I don't know. I don't know what does happen. I just like woke up on this beach. This is crazy. I don't know what happened. Yeah, but that was it. What's the name of this one?

This one is called a switcheroo. Oh, the switcheroo. Okay. The switcheroo. I like this. Okay. Okay. I'll put that through.

Put it on the whiteboard. Will you? Yes. Are you going to run that up the ladder? I mean, listen, if I am asked like, hey, Rob, what's a, may I put this on the list of things to consider? I would be honored. Yes. Of course.

Mary, who are some of your other favorites on season 50? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm really, I'm of course enjoying Christian a lot. And we're getting a lot of story from his point of view. So I, that is very fun to get to see his take on all of this. I really love Emily. I love this game she's playing. I really, I connect with. And I'm really curious to see because I think she's an incredibly smart person. So I want to know the story of the season for her so far. And who else am I loving? I'm loving Genevieve, of course. I'm loving Cerey. Why, of course? Why, Genevieve, of course.

I think Genevieve is just a very skilled and resourceful player. I just think she really, I think she gained a lot playing her first time. She did so well her first time and I think learned a lot from it. actively implementing those things she learned. So I'm having a great time watching her navigate that. Again, I'm so invested in the Genevieve-Obbrey storyline. I want to know more about Tiffany because I love Tiffany. And I want to like...

You see how she twirled the ropes the other day? Oh, oh, baby, old baby. Never seen everybody do that ever on any show. No, it was incredible. Who else am I loving? I do you think she knew she was so good at that and she was like guys let me do the ropes trust me trust me like no no no no this no Tiffany we got somebody else is on that no no no no no no no no I got the ropes trust me on this one you watch me yeah it makes me it makes me think that everybody in addition to

practicing fire everybody needs to be workshopping different ways but she like lasso with the ropes do you think that she has like some skills she looks like yes she looks like she could She could, you know, do all kinds of nautical knots. I mean, she seems to be really familiar with how ropes work. And so, like, she, rope, rope craft. And so, yeah, I want to know what else she's got in her bag with that. Because she's a bag that's brilliant. With rope.

There you have it. There have it. That's right. There you have it. Mary, do you watch any other reality TV or is you just a survivor purist? I sure do. No, I'm not a survivor purist. That is my first love and my greatest love.

But I watch, I do. I watch traders, of course. I watch Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which is the only real house source that I follow Salt Lake City, really, and then below deck. Why SLC? Well, that was recommended to me. I hadn't dipped my toes in the real housewives universe at all, and it was recommended to me by a friend at a party. And my husband and I started watching it, and we became hooked.

Yes. Have you watched that? No. Can I say embarrassingly? So I did not know that there were two different things of real housewives of Salt Lake City and the secret lives of Mormon housewives. I didn't know that was two different things. So I thought like, oh, there's going to be a bachelorette from the real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Well, I showed my whole ass when I realized.

You sure did. And it went out to the internet. That's right. Yes. I was like, oh, I didn't even, there was a whole other different show. Oh, and I would argue an entirely different universe that we're in. The Mormon aspect is a subtle, a subtle thing that we're tracking in Housewives of Salt Lake City. Whereas, you know, of course, it's the main theme of secret lives of Mormon wives.

But these women are just, they're just, they're just amazing. And talk about good storytelling. You just, you got to see it to believe it. You just got to watch it. That's a great show. And we watch a lot of below deck and, you know, all of that stuff. No Real Housewives of Solic City have ever set foot in Scotland at the Traders Castle. A shame.

Not yet. Not yet. Yes. That will happen, I'm sure. Are you interested in one day maybe being a person who plays the traders? Well, hmm. Yes. I think that would, I think, yeah, yeah.

I think, I don't think I'd do well. But I think I would have, I would like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have played blood on the clock tower now twice. How did you? Well, the first time, oh my gosh. In real life, have you played it?

Yes, I have played it. In real life. Yes. Well, the first time I ever played, I was the imp. And so that was that we talk about getting thrown in the deep end. Did you play with people who are like real veterans also? Were you playing like above your skill level? Some had played before. But no, for the most part, we were all new to the game.

Although I played with players who who are avid mafia players. which is similar. And so, and they're all very good at it. And they're all, you know, one of my closest friends, it just knows by looking at me that I'm lying. And so that's a really tough thing. It is hard. Because I wear it right on.

I wear it on my face. I really do. Mary, I have played a couple of times, both on, I played recently in person. And I played also mostly online. But I feel like that, almost every single time I've played, I'm playing with people who are so much more familiar with the game

than I am. I'm so sheepish and timid to say anything. People are like, what, what are you? I'm like, you know, I don't feel comfortable saying right now because I don't, like, I feel like you know everything and I know very little, and I don't want to say anything, because I'm afraid I'm going to blow it.

I know. I know, and you, but then if you don't say anything, then did you find that you got a target right on your back right away? Yeah. Because that happened to me? Oh, we don't trust you. Like, well, I don't trust myself. Yeah, and I don't trust any of you either.

So, you know. Yeah. Now where does that leave us? Yes, I, but I think I would have fun with the traders of it all because there's a real levity about that, especially the celebrity versions. It really does seem like, oh, everybody's having a good time. You know, we're all sort of not everybody, Rob. I had a fun time. I mean, again, like, I was having fun until I had to leave.

Like, that was, that was fun. God, I loved. I squealed every time you're on screen. I was like, there you get you. And you knowing about the Congo line and something you're sprighty since going off. I wanted so, I couldn't get enough of you in that game and I wanted more. But, yeah, I guess that's true. Not everybody does have a good time with it.

But it just seems like that's the approach that they're taking with the U.S. traders is like, let's get everybody's, you know, celebrities. Let's get them on a castle. Just buy people a handbag after. It's all good. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Whereas, you know, when it is, when it is non-celebrities playing, it feels like the civilians. Do you watch the U.S.? Oh, yes, yes. The money is real. The money means a lot. that it wouldn't to the celebrities plain, but I think that there's a, in the same way,

Survivor is so compelling because people are really fighting for this, how it will change their lives, this money. I agree. I think that there might be a couple of people on the U.S. traders where Tiffany, certainly for one, was somebody who was like,

okay, this money is really there. But I think that for the most part, I think that, you know, 85% of the people there, that the real prize for them is the fame that could come out of a successful run on the traders more so than the prize pot. Oh, boy, and did that work for Rob or what? I had no idea who that person was and then, and he's everywhere. He's on the, he's, he was trying to sell me granola bars. Granola bars. Yeah. Isn't he, isn't he doing like a kind, kind, um, kind bars? Kind bars. Commercial. That's what I think of. Can I tell you something that,

that I did that did not work. Of course. Okay. So I don't think I've said this anywhere. Oh my gosh. An exclusive. This is tea for you, Mary. This is hot, piping hot.

I, you know, in my head, I'm like, okay, I got to try to be on good terms with everybody. Like, and I was like, you know, I had like all of the index cards of everybody, like, taped into my room. I'm like, okay, who am I, like, where are my, like, my people that I'm not super close with? and I had remembered after we did the first mission that Rob Roush was after the challenge was like really looking for like he seemed he seemed famished couldn't get any food and I said you know what

I'm gonna bring a protein bar to the to two and I'm going to give it to him after the mission and after the challenge after the mission the second mission was over I was like hey I got this for you Oh my gosh. And then he killed me that night. It bought me nothing. It wasn't the brand that he wanted.

Maybe. Did you just take it from Crafty or where did you get this protein bar? Was it a personal stash? It was like a crafty that you could have in your room. That's so thoughtful of you, Rob. I brought it with me for the day. I said, okay, I'm going to get one for me. One for my buddy Rob is going to look for it.

He's going to want a snack after the mission. And that is incredibly perceptive of you and generous of you. Maybe he's like, you know what, this guy trying to butter me up. This guy is paying attention, I think is probably what it said to him, was like, this guy, oh, this guy's really watching. And that made a nervous. He said, oh, this guy's oblivious. He cannot read the social cues at all. Exactly.

He should have taken his. Whatever he was eating, you should have asked if you could have it. And then he really would be like, oh. Any other scripted things you're watching besides your fine work on ghosts? Yes. Well, I love. With no shade to the other ghosts. I've heard that part of my pun, but you injected new life into ghosts.

Well, I think my character is, it was a different energy because she was such a bummer. that I, you know, because I play a Puritan who's very severe. And so I think that that, there was, I think, a new energy coming into the house from her, how much she really sucked. So maybe, yeah, that was what you were hearing. I do have a question for you from our mutual friend, Alex, who wanted me to ask you, How come a year ago that there used to be like interstitial commercials during Survivor, where the cast of ghosts would be reacting to what was happening on Survivor?

Why did we get away from that beautiful CBS synergy? I was actually, I can't speak to why we got away from it because I loved it. I loved seeing the tie-ins. And I actually was there at the inception of that. Yes. One of the writers and producers of Ghosts is also an avid survivor fan, John Blickstead. And we were talking about, he's also played. Shout out to John Blickstead.

He also played another. They do these in-person survivor games one day only. And he had played that game with my friend Kelsey, who had created Quarantine Island. She connected us. Anyway, and we're chatting on set. And it came up of like, oh, it goes CBS, Survivors, CBS. There's got to be something here. Like, is there something here?

And then I think John really, you know, ran with that. And he had a great idea of how to do that. And then, yeah, these great little, little. And so I guess in the end, I will say it's because of me that those happen. Yeah. Which is not true. It's not true. But I did witness the inception of them.

Yeah. I think those things were sort of like, I feel like it's sort of like DVR blockers of like, you're like, fast forward, fast forward, oh wait, the show's back on. And then you like, you trick them. And it's like, ha ha, now you're watching the, it wasn't actually the show. You're watching the ghosts talk about the show.

But these ghost characters are so much fun. And they have such strong opinions that I do think there is a lot of comedy to be mind from getting their take on what's happening. On anything. On anything. On anything. They're all people from all throughout history and they should be reacting to all sort. Like, what about this for like a ghost spinoff?

Like what about, remember when like Beavis and Butthead used to like watch music videos? Like what if the ghosts are just watching other things on Paramount Plus? It's genius, Rob. I mean, this is how you build an audience. Yeah. I mean, what else could they be watching? They could be watching tracker. or they could be watching

Ridiculousness. What? What's that? That's an MTV show that they, I think that MTV has no shows. They just have ridiculousness all day. Man. Man, you know, I, can we bring the real world back?

Sure, sure. And it's the ghosts? And it's the ghost. I mean, I guess that is what the show is. Yeah, that's that. They brought it back. This is the true story. They did bring it back, I guess, with the ghosts.

More than seven, though. More than several. What happens when they stop being polite and start being ghosts? Yeah. Yeah. That is what we're watching, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, that was really very fun when they did that.

And hopefully they bring it back. And hopefully maybe the theme they bring back from 51st. Spive or Ghosts Island. Right? Yeah, let's do. Let's redo that. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's a great idea. And then instead of, yes, instead of it being like, oh, you know, idols or advantages, like mistakes at the past, it's actual ghosts. Is that not but the theme of the TV show ghosts of that you have these apparitions who are in some cases still like dealing with the physical wounds of what has happened to their body, of what has ended their life on earth? And now for all of eternity, it's like, boy, you know, I shouldn't have. you know led that that that uh you know battle against uh what was it uh you know the american indians that day you're right right there's i think there's like that was a mistake they that was a mistake and they are constantly they are constantly learning more about themselves

in ghosthood in understanding the mistakes of their their um a lot of of the course of the show. And I think that that, yeah, it's like exactly what the theme of that season was. And I do think there is something to be said for, you know, in the spirit of theming things. Literally. How about ghosts versus alive people. Wow. So that would be.

How about it? That would be really intense. It's tough to pull off from a production standpoint. But I think that would be really, we could learn. lot about ourselves from that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Incredible. Well, Mary. I do think a good season would be flat authors versus scientists. Flatters versus scientists. I mean, but I do think that like some kind of a hook to get people like, okay, I got to see that. I think that's exactly what Survivor needs. Yeah. I think so too. You know, Survivor and we've said this before in the podcast, you know,

like when they just keep coming, it's iPhone 18. It's like, eh, I got an iPhone. What do I need? That's not that exciting? Yeah. What's different? What's different about this one? Yeah. Yeah, I think, and I do think people are eager to see the, the, how we are so polarized, you know, I think people want to see that play out and get, and people attempt to work with that, work around that. I think it is a microcosm of society to show. And we need that. Well, I think that as a whole, like one of the things that I like to talk about is that I think that as the wide net of Survivor fans, that hopefully there is like one thing that unites this group, even though that often the Survivor fans don't agree about anything, that there is one thing that, you know, everybody is passionate about at the end of the day. And I think that there is some optimism there. But I do think that one of the, like, defining things about Survivor, and listen, you have people.

who are so far gone that there is there is nothing that can unite these people. But if you found like amongst like the 80% of people in the middle, like I think that there is a lot that still unites people together. And I think that survivor can still be about building a version of that society. I think so too. I think so too. I believe in it so much. And I will never, ever, ever give up on Survivor. I believe in it. I believe in its mission. I believe in the forces behind it.

And I think, and you know, to sum up, I believe in you and I believe in this podcast. And I believe in your listeners. And I believe in, you know, we're gonna, it's all gonna be okay. That's what I believe. Do you promise? Yeah.

Okay. That was a little bit of a pregnant pause. I was like, wow, Mary's really, Really cooking, but then it was like a little... I mean, I don't have all the answers, but I believe that will be okay. Yes. Okay. Well, I'm happy to do you say that because you seem like your finger on the pulse of a lot of things.

Oh, yeah. I'm really, I'm in the know. If you're never going to find anybody who's more aware of everything around her and never runs into anything and is totally fine. Okay. Well, Mary, this was so fun. Thank you for making so much of your time for us to talk. about Survivor. I know you must have a million things going on. And so please come back anytime. I'd be thrilled to. I want to come in with like a hot take for, hey, can I just drop this

take on you and then can I get back to set? Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. Hot takes are always coming to me on set, hopefully. Hopefully, yes. You know what I mean? On both counts, sure. But I'm both counts. But I really appreciate it. I'm such a fan of yours, and I would love to continue talking with you anytime. This has been such a highlight for me, Mary. So thank you again so much. Me too. This is really, really fun.

Mary, where could people keep up with what you're doing? I keep things, people updated on my Instagram at Mary Hollandeys, like the sauce. And so I do live shows around Los Angeles. And then you'll see a lot of improv, a long-form improv comedy. I perform all around Los Angeles all the time. And then Lauren Lapkis and I are actually hitting the road with the two-person improv show. So we'll be bringing that to a city near you, hopefully, this year. Okay.

All right. I hope it's a city near me. If it is, I'll only charge you a little bit for the tickets. That's fine. That's fine. Not the full amount, but just a little bit. I appreciate it. You got to get the scout code.

That'll be great. Well, Mary, thank you so much. Thanks, everybody who checked this out. We've got a big Survivor come out. Are you nervous about this episode on Wednesday? Because they really tease something devious is going to happen. I know. I'm very curious, very excited.

It seems like, because we're merging, right? Yeah, you said you wanted it to get serious. I do want it to get serious. Maybe I shouldn't have put that out there. it like an evil shot of Jeff at tribal council. Oof. Yeah. What could it possibly be? I'm really, I'm really excited. I, you know, I could do with a little evil Jeff here and there. Not exclusively, but here and there. I'm nervous. I'm excited. I can't wait to see what's in store. Okay. All right. Well, we'll all find out

on Wednesday night. So join us then. Check out everything else. We have going on this week, including my interviews with Adam Klein and Rachel Lamont and so much more. Thank you for watching. I will be reading your feedback on this podcast as well. Take care, everybody's a good one. Bye.