RHAP: We Know Survivor - Road to Reality | Cutting Your Losses with J’Tia Hart

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Episode 4 of Road to Reality features J’Tia Hart from Survivor: Cagayan. Join J’Tia (@JTiaPhd) and Kellyn (@theKellynB) as they start the conversation by getting into the unforgettable rice moment on Cagayan, how an Amazing Race application quickly turned into a spot on Survivor, J’Tia’s experience becoming a nuclear engineer, women in STEM, surviving breast cancer and so much more.

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as perfect as they appear from the creators of barbarian in the studio that brought you the notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge companion only in theaters january 31st. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Road to Reality. Today is Episode 4, Season 2 and features none other than the Jatia Hart from Survivor Cagayan. Before this podcast was even a twinkle in my eye, I dreamed of getting to sit down and talk to Jatia about who she was behind the person that we saw on Survivor. And wow, is it an incredible life story? We start the conversation by getting into the incredible, unforgettable rice moment on Kageyan. How her amazing race application quickly turned into a spot on Survivor. Her experience becoming a nuclear engineer starting at an incredibly young age.

She talks about women in STEM, surviving breast cancer, and so much more. This conversation, of course, does not disappoint. I introduce to you the intelligent, adaptable, and competitive Jatia Hart. Jatia, I got to meet you in person for the first time at Bryce and Win event just a few weeks ago. I felt like we had met before because we've talked, you know, I don't know. I guess we've only talked in games, huh? Yes, we had. Yeah, no, definitely was the first time we got to meet in person, but we had talked on social on sequester. Yes. So, yeah, that was so interesting.

It's always interesting to me when I meet people from Survivor because I feel like I've known them. So I always think that's an interesting thing. Like you're like, oh, I'm meeting a stranger. But you're like, no, I actually know. You know, I feel like I know this person. oh, I'm meeting a stranger, but you're like, no, I actually know, you know, I feel like I know this person. And that's very interesting because I know some of, you know, sometimes you feel like that when you're watching other shows, but no, because we were both on Survivor, we have like this weird summer camp trauma bond or like sorority bond. So yeah, I was very happy to meet you. You're super cool.

Not gonna lie, I didn't watch your season. I think at that time I was very busy with small children or I don't know, some other thing. But yeah, I thought you were cool. Hey, look, that's even better. It's probably better. You probably like me better from my sequester run than my survivor run.

So I'll take it. You did well, right? You made the jewelry, right? I did. I did all right. Yeah, I got seventh place. So I was lucky to have a really good experience. I think I was not as well on my way to winning

as I thought I did at the time. But I really, I was running with Dom and Wendell. Do you know Wendell? While I was out there. And so I was a with Dom and Wendell, you know, Wendell while I was out there. And so I was I was a pawn in their winning scheme, which worked just fine. I have a question for you. Did you feel like a pawn in their scheme or is that the way it did? Did the way it came across on TV? Was that the way you felt on the island? Or did you feel like, no, I had my own thing going?

I definitely felt like I had my own thing going. I definitely thought everyone knew that they were the two biggest targets. And once I got the other biggest threats out of the way, which I was going along with them because we agreed on that, there were eight of us left. And I thought for sure I had enough numbers, six of us to go against the two monsters, the two top dogs to have six people.

And the group of six was just not as strong as I thought it was. I couldn't believe it. I just got backed in. So I didn't feel like a pawn. I was voting with them on purpose because i was in agreement with them and then i thought these are the two top dogs everyone's gonna turn against them of course and they didn't and i was shocked yeah i was i was shocked is that the way they played it on the uh on tv too or did they play it like i got a lot of like oh she was navidi strong

which was the name of my original tribe um she was Navidi Strong she was blinded by that she which I was preaching Navidi Strong a lot because it was serving me to get to the point that I wanted to get you didn't really believe it you you you say whatever narrative you need to say to get the vote you need to get at the time you need to get it yeah that's what that is truly what I thought and I was like playing like the mother bear of Navidi Strong which didn't make me a threat I thought to Dom and Wendell but Dom and Wendell knew all along they were using me they were using my sweetness to keep the my portion of the votes together and they went home with the money yeah well look everybody can't win that I won in the experience though I definitely feel like that

so when I asked you if you wanted to come to a podcast it's about being a human being who happened to be on survivor and you said yes uh in what were there parts that of your journey and of your life that you were like yes if I if I have the survivor audience captive, this is what I want to talk about, about Jatia. Okay. So I, you know what, Kellen, I want to say I had a perfect plan about like, yeah, this is what I was going to do. And this really, I was surprised flying by the seat of my pants. So I, I, I didn't originally apply for Survivor I applied for Amazing Race and so this was back in 2013 2013 I think is when I applied and I was an avid big not big brother Amazing Race fan and I have a sister and I like have been telling her we need to apply for a long time and we finally at Thanksgiving shot a video this was back when like you couldn't

really edit a video on your phone very easily so I used my little production skills from middle school that I learned and went in Windows editor and we put together this really cute video and we used um the the Osmond songs. Like I'm a little bit country, I'm a little bit rock and roll. And she lived on a farm at the time. So she was the country and I was the rock and roll because I lived in the big city of Chicago

and we sent it in and they called me back and asked me if I wanted to be on Survivor. And I said, sure, what the heck? Honestly, I was looking to change up my life so I applied once for Amazing Race they said would you like to do Survivor are you interested I said yes they said okay we'll make a video um of Survivor I was like I'm not doing all the editing again so I had a friend who worked in that kind of thing he gave me a kid of his who I paid like $50 to and he put together the video

of me in my apartment in Chicago and out at a couple sites like The Bean and stuff like that. And we sent it in. It's on YouTube. Did you put it on YouTube? Did you know that was on YouTube? I think I knew it was on YouTube.

No, I did not put it on YouTube. I wonder, that's something that's come up in these is like some people's audition videos are showing up online and they put it there and other people didn't know that the audition tape was out there. I did know.

It doesn't bother me. They don't have I still have my original one from the Amazing Race. I'll put it out there one day. But I just wanted to do something new. Like I had a job. I was out of school, not too far out of school, but I had a job. The job was kind of boring. I was, you know, at the lowest rung of the ladder and I wanted to mix it up. So that's why I went on. I had watched Survivor. I ain't gonna lie.

I had only an iota of what I was getting into um and like I didn't know when the merge happened you know all this kind of stuff I didn't take survival classes I could swim I'm not a super strong swimmer I was like they ain't gonna let me die but I knew I wasn't a super strong swimmer and I will tell you I thought I would do okay. Like I was like, I might win, probably not. I know how to figure out odds. I was like, but you know what, I'm gonna give it my best try. And I'm gonna do something, something's gonna happen. And I went out there. And I was like, you know, if I get in the right situation, I can take it. You know, I never thought I was going to get out there and win all the challenges and do all these people. I knew I was in trouble when they put the tribes

together. I was like, oh, yes. I was like, this is not going to go well. I was the youngest woman on my tribe. Whenever you are the youngest one on your tribe, that spells trouble. Yeah. How old were you at the time? woman on your tribe, that spells trouble. Yeah. How old were you at the time? Younger. No, I was, I was 32, 31, 32. Okay. Yeah. And so I was getting really physically fit. I mean, I wasn't like running marathons, but you know, I could run a mile and, and. You were training for the amazing race. You're, you're in pretty good shape. mile and, and you were training for the amazing race. You're, you're in pretty good shape. Right. So, um, I was healthy. I was fit, all of those things. Um, and I knew I was in trouble when I saw my tribe and it was basically all downhill from there. I don't know how you felt

when you saw your tribe, but mine, I was like, I was so lucky we were two tribes of 10. So I just had so much more space to hide. I always feel like that. The three tribes start is so much scarier because we went and we did eventually go into three tribes, but we did a tribe of eight or 10. And then I was on a tribe of eight. And then I was on a tribe of five, I think. So those small tribes, I cannot imagine starting the game with that few people to use as shields and the clicks can't be that fluid. It's like either you're in or you're out.

So I don't have any envy for those folks starting on small tribes. Yes. So I basically hit the ground and I knew it wasn't going to be good. And also like my tribe, our tribe was so conniving, like from the jump. Nobody was like trying to be helpful. Everybody like was out immediately to backstab. There was no kumbaya. I tried to do some fake kumbaya.

So some of my like ridiculous optimism that they show on the show was me trying to be like, hey, guys And you know, let's, let's do this. Let's do this together. Let's pretend for a little bit, everybody. Come on. Right. There was none of that in my tribe. Nobody wanted to, uh, be friendly. And so some of the stuff that they show me being like Delulu about is like, okay, because nobody's like, nobody wanted to talk. It was not fun. Like I tried to get the girls to do our hair. Like, you know, do I care if I have the same hairstyle as everybody else? No, you know, but I need something to try to make these people seem, make it seem like I'm friendly, especially after, you know, I was like, hey, nobody said anything about

building a shelter. So I was like, well, somebody got to say it. Here go me volunteering, putting my hand up. Come to find out, Cass knew how to do a whole, you know, she was a rancher. She said nothing. Me and my big mouth. So I don't know. Just trying to be helpful, huh?

Yeah. So unlike the natural leader part where you start to step up, is that something that like since you were young, have you been the you said you have a sister? Have you been the leader who's putting the groups together, school projects, all that stuff kind of all through grad school? This is your whole your whole life has been being the leader. Yeah. Yes. So, yes, my whole life has been being the leader and um and so I I wanted to come I knew I had to do something I knew I was going to have a target on my back

um and like there was this thing where in ours somebody had to volunteer to go to the island first and Garrett did it and that did not work out well for him and so like I felt like I tried to tamp down being a leader thing by not volunteering for that but then I immediately got to camp and started talking about building a shelter even though we knew had somebody who knew how to do that stuff who said nothing um and that like went to shit and then I felt like I had to step it up at the challenge for the puzzles and had a panic attack, a full on panic attack. So yeah, after that, I was like, whatever, it's not going well for me. I can't really turn this around.

Um, so let's just make it fun. where in your life like up to that point has the like the leadership take initiative I think I saw on your video you left your childhood home at 15 where

so obviously this the flip side of the whatever we can say how it didn't go great for like yeah you didn't win Survivor

and whatever but in life obviously taking initiative and being a leader has gotten you so far in so many amazing ways. So can you talk about some of the stuff

before you went on Survivor, where having this initiative, being the leader, speaking up for yourself, served you really well? So I guess before Survivor, what really drove my life is I wanted to live a big life and do things differently from the people that I knew. So I grew up in Florida, a really big family. I have nine brothers and sisters and I was the youngest. So and I grew up with one brother and one sister and a household with my parents. And I always wanted to differentiate myself. And also, you know, we grew up in a working class neighborhood, which, you know, I'm very grateful because it taught me a lot of things, but I was ready to go. I was ready to move on, do bigger things.

I really liked to read when I was younger. And so I'd read about all these interesting places you could go and things you could do. And I wanted to go and do those things. That wasn't what people was doing in my neighborhood. So I was ready to go. I always did really well in school. And so I put together a ploy basically to

graduate from high school early. I was already one year ahead. I had already started school early and skipped a grade. And then I was going to graduate when I was 16. And then I just doubled up on my classes and went to night school and summer school. Like that's how, you know, summer school for algebra. And I was like, oh, I want to learn this. And I think like somebody else was going to night school. So I was like, I might as well too. I don't have anything else going on and ended up graduating and going to college, starting college when I was 15. So I was very independent, very, you know, take initiative, you know, to get all these things going. And that is basically my personality. Anybody who knows me knows like, yeah, I'm always the person who's like going to lead the group project to my detriment. Well, it can't be to your detriment,

like where you are today. Not always, at least. Not always. But I think one of the, like you said, you asked, I chose intelligent, adaptable, and competitive. Still three words to describe me to this day. I think my survivor experience, one of the hardest parts of my survivor experiences is kind of facing not being as good. I don't want to say not being as good as I, not living up to my potential. I will say that. Not living up to my potential. I really, like I said, I'm super competitive. I want to do well. Most things I really do do well. Sometimes I don't. And this was the sometimes I don't. And it being on such a big stage was a lot for me. But. I think it just made me better.

It like, you know, it's like the what is that stronger? Is that the Christina Aguilera song? Like whatever. Christina Aguilera song like whatever yeah um you know it just set me up for a comeback and also it helped me figure out when to cut your losses like okay all right sometimes you have to cut your losses and like know that this ain't for you and slowly tiptoe out of it um so yeah I mean at a certain point in time I wasn't doing well and. And I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna cause chaos. Because if not, you know, then I definitely don't want to be bad and then go quietly. Like, you know? people forget that potentially is like, it was so close. It was, it made sense, the chaos piece in and of itself. And as you said, I learned from survivor to sometimes cut my losses. Are there any examples in your life when you came back that you were like, Hey, now I'm going to get out early? you were like, hey, now I'm going to get out early. Correct. So actually my job, when I got back from Survivor, I just met my husband right before I went on Survivor. And so we were getting married and I was like, you know what? I want more for my job. I don't want to say I didn't like it,

but I wanted more. And I was like, why am I just staying at this job? Because, you know, it was one of the first full-time jobs that I had. And I was like, it's a good job. It pays well. And it did, it paid really well. And it's hard for you to take that leap and say, you know, I want more and give up this nice, safe, comfy branch, you know, and reach for the other branch when you know you might fall. So that is what it gave me. Like, yeah, look, I humiliated myself on TV saying that, oh, I'm so great and I'm so smart, but then couldn't figure out a puzzle

or couldn't do this or allegedly on TV. And I was like, you know what? I'm still kicking. I'm still working it out. So that's what it taught me, resilience, really. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points.

Visit Superstore.ca to get started. When I met you, you told me what you said to your husband. If you feel comfortable, tell the story of the timing of meeting your husband, your lovely husband, and what you said to him before you left. I just loved that story. So I met my husband when I was in the casting process for Survivor. And so they had me sign an NDA. They said I couldn't tell anybody. And so I told him that I was going on a long term work assignment to Africa. And that's just been like a couple of weeks, right? Like you just started dating him. Yeah.

Yeah. A couple of weeks of dating him. And I was supposed to I don't even think we had our date, but I would leave like within two months. That's what they told me. And so finally, it was like two weeks from the time I was going to leave. And I was like, I can't. We were talking about getting married. And I was like, I can't leave and not tell him.

So I ended up telling him that he had to sign all these NDAs. He thought it was wonderful. He was like, oh, I'm so excited. And I remember when I first met him, when we met. And I am, I would say, a high-strung person. And when I met him, he said, oh, I like women who are a challenge. And I was like, oh, I was like, this is my man. I was like, he gets that I go hard. He appreciates it. And he's all about it. So he was on board. He was there. He picked me up from the airport when i came home from survivor he went

with me to the finale back when we had finales um yeah he's hung out you met him like yeah he hangs tough i mean so and he likes the the you know z-list fame that we get um and now like our kids our kids are meeting like some of the survivors. And I finally let my eight-year-old daughter start watching Survivor. She was like, I want to watch your season. I was like, no, never. That's not going to happen. She's going to be old enough soon enough to find it on her own, Jatia. You might have to walk her through it. She's going to have to learn how to work a DVR or go on cbs.com or something. I don't know, but I'm not showing it to her. cbr or go on cbs.com or something i don't know but i'm not showing it to her i'm not up for that smack talking from an eight-year-old it'd probably be the worst it'd probably be worse than anything

that was ever said on twitter i think coming from an eight-year-old daughter probably why didn't you just put the flag on there she was it was right there i'm like okay girl so you have a daughter you have two kids you have your daughter who eight. And a son who's six years old. And your son is six. So that would have, you would have, how long in between when you got back? So you just met Graham. You're like weeks to going out to Survivor. You're like, I'm going to Africa.

Just kidding. I'm going on Survivor. And I think you had said, you had told him, you're like, this is the man I'm going to marry. Like in these few weeks. on survivor and I think you had said you had told him you're like this is the man I'm gonna marry like oh yeah I told him like um that's why I was like I had to tell him about survivor I was like because we didn't marry um I know he probably thought we were crazy but I not only did I tell him we were getting married but I told him what date we were getting married like the exact date which was it ended up being the date that you got married oh yeah absolutely so um and it's so in my family my grandparents my and my parents have gotten married on March 19th so I told him I want to get married on I think we met in 2013 I was like okay I'm gonna give you a year to get

the ring and get engaged and then a year after that March 19th 2020 2015 give you a year to get the ring and get engaged. And then a year after that, March 19th, 2015, is when I want to get married. And it happened. It took him till April of the next year. He almost got done. But it took him April of the next year to get the ring together. And that was actually when Survivor was airing. OK. Yes.

So I was engaged to him when it was airing and when we went to the finale um and then a year later we got married in Florida and like one of the good things I like about being on Survivor is that like People Magazine had covered my wedding oh I thought that was really cool like I mean if I didn't do Survivor, they wouldn't put me in People magazine. I think in Us Weekly. So that was another, you know, cool perk. And like when my first child was born, it was on People as well. So it's cool.

Like people, the general public are concerned. To this day, people at work, work you know are always asking me about survivor and stuff like that so so that works too i mean honestly the further i get away from the experience the more i like it um okay tell me about that tell me about how the further you get away the more you like it tell me more oh because i, because I was pissed. I mean, like you, I got a harsh edit. I did harsh things though. Like, let's be honest. Um, and so I, you know, it was my first time being on TV and being in that environment. And so you don't know how it's going to come off. Um, also I didn't know what happened in the rest of the season, you know, until later. So I

didn't know how my, you know, actions played into the bigger, you know, I had heard bits and pieces or whatever. So it was a little harsh. And, you know, that was when Twitter and was new. And so people was wild on Twitter. And, you know, I got a lot of comments about being you know she's so stupid I think the thing that kind of hit was like questioning whether I could do my job because um I was they were like oh she must be stupid how how does her employer feel and I was like my employer feel good because I'm great at my job. And but it took me a while to process that and to get to that point. Like, you know, you're a person on the Internet. Get out of here. Yeah. And I had to think about I was like anybody who in my real job would come up to me and be like, I don't know if you could do your job because I

watched Survivor and I saw you. I was like, oh, they have to be 13 or 14 or just not understand how that works. Yeah. Yeah. And to have just such this, because what did you say? I did big things or I did, I don't know what word you use, but I did loud things on the show or whatever. And then to have just that portion, of course, every single confessional and every single thing is going to play into that narrative, which they used. And is obviously it happens like people are like, is that did did somebody tell you to do that? And all that stuff like, no, you did that and you came up with it on your own. of who you were on that day and to have then your entire quote unquote survivor identity

be around this piece that is more, is it fair to say like out of control from who you are in real life? Yes. Oh, I mean, so this is the thing at work, you know, I would never take, I mean, you know, you're not dependent on food

for work or whatever but do i make big moves and risky moves absolutely if you're playing a game with me um and i'm not winning and i'm mad i might flip the board like let's be honest i might flip the board you know that's not it that's not i might take my ball and go home and be mad about it and apologize later i mean that's not unheard of. Like I play games with my kids and I'm still very intense, you know, but I know it's a game. So, so yeah, that is the thing. I mean, yeah, I like my experience. I still, you know, I did this promotional opportunity out at Chicago State University with Survivor. So I appreciate that. out at Chicago State University with Survivor.

So I appreciate that. A big thing that I've been into for a very long time is really advocating for Black people and women in the sciences, technologies, engineering, mathematics. So I thought one of the things about going on Survivor is that no matter what, how how i did people were going to see a black woman as an engineer on survivor and um good bad or ugly you know they say there's there's no such thing as bad press there's no bad exposure when you're a boss ass bitch you know so like even if i look like that on tv you can say well, if you don't like me, you could say, well, I can do it better than her.

Go do it. And if you do like me, then, yeah, great. So either way, you see an example of somebody in that space that you don't usually see. So that was also a good thing that came out. I mean, I remember like being like, wait, what is what Googlingling about what... Wait, what does she do with the nuclear engineering? How do you become a nuclear engineer? And since then, as a fan following you, certainly a voice that has brought attention to women, Black women in STEM. And it's using that platform to spread awareness about that idea, even like in your final sequester question, like bringing that in of like, can you name a woman scientist and all this stuff? It's amazing to use the platform for good. And there's so many ways

that you've done that with your STEM, the attention in the STEM community. You have a nonprofit for about the STEM community. So I during the pandemic, the pandemic, while I met you playing sequester, I also did a web series about black women in STEM called STEM Queens. It's on YouTube. So it's an eight episode series and I turned it into a nonprofit. And so that was also something like that I got into. Well, I would say I was more exposed to it because of Survivor, you know, how you do all the podcasts and everything else when you get off and the press. And so that kind of increased my exposure to that realm. Really after Survivor, for the first five years, I didn't do anything with Survivor. Part of it was a healing process.

Part of it was I got married and then it filmed in 2013. I got engaged in 2014 and it aired in 2014. I got married in 2015, had a baby in 2016 and had a baby in 2018. So that brought me pretty much all the way like seven years past before I could think about doing any anything else. I actually did before I had my first child, got pregnant with my first child they um asked me to come back was it uh second chance it was the one where you voted yeah second chance okay so um I was in the casting for second chance um and there was another one um that I was in the casting for so I mean I'm still just as stupid and gung-ho, you know, still open to that. It is something that you would like to do again.

I would not say no. I will also not promise I would be any better. I think just as interesting though, I'll tell you that, Kellyn. I was going to say, girl, I don't think you can be better. Girl, like I might not be better in your terms, but I'm going to be just as interesting. And isn't that why you come to watch the show?

So you can see interesting things. So, yeah, that's that's always my line. I, you know, I'm older, I'm slower. I'm definitely not, you know. Hell, if I couldn't, my swimming has not gotten better. So I'll be like, unless you want me to die, I will be on this little bitch here. hell if I couldn't my swimming has not gotten better so I'm gonna go ahead and sit down and I'll be like unless you want me to die I will be on this little bitch here I'm left at it's 15 you graduate you've graduated high school you're going to college did you choose engineering right

away how did you go from 15 wanting to go to college and then getting into engineering and then nuclear engineering? So short answer is I was bribed and influenced. And so one of the things, of course, being very young and going off to college, my mom wanted me to have some structure. So she said, OK, if you're going to go off, then I want you to join ROTC. So at least I know that somebody will be you'll have a community. It's a good career path. You know, you'll be up discipline. So that and she was the one who said, I think I was a business major. She was like, oh, you're good at math and science. And she was like, why don't you try engineering?

And she was like, if you get good grades, I'll give you a car. I was like, who? Say less. OK, all right. That's all I needed. So basically, I was in engineering because my mom convinced me to. And then I was going on through engineering and it was it was just OK. Like, even though I was an engineer major, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Like during the summers, I didn't have engineer internships. I was just goofing off, being like a camp counselor during the summer, hanging out. And then I went for a summer experience in ROTC and they took me out on a submarine.

Like they have this four week experience and you go and you see different sides of, and I was Navy, so Navy ROTC. And they took me out on a submarine. I was like, oh, this is cool. It was the first thing that clicked. And the cool thing about it was that we were on a submarine and it was powered by nuclear and it also had nuclear missiles. And I was like, okay, so that's the good part, the power. It's the bad part, the weapons. And I was like, well, who are the people who are making sure, you know, things aren't going wrong? And they were like, oh, that would be a nuclear engineer. So then that's what I went to grad school for. So I moved from Florida to Illinois. How old were you at that point? I think I was 19 or 20 something um uh and yeah and then I've been in Illinois pretty much ever since

I went to the University of Illinois so down in the cornfields um while I was down there in the cornfields my little part-time job was modeling okay so that's interesting I don't know if you knew this Kellyn I'm about to drop some some knowledge i don't usually talk about this here i'm ready but i said i'm ready okay you're ready so my mother's gonna kill me i was in playboy girls of like the big 10 um you remember when playboy was like a thing when i do so what had happened was i did this again boredom boredom big splash so i was like yeah i'll do this somebody told me you know this was kind of like oh you're cute i didn't have a problem with nudity i ain't seen a big deal with it i was like i'm gonna get some cute pictures out of it and if the the pictures come out good, then I can take them to the modeling agency and I can start modeling. So people did

find out, surprise, that I posed for Playboy. But I did start modeling. And so that was good for me because I was doing like little side jobs, not making a lot of money, like waitressing and like modeling. I made like $1,600 a day, which was a ton of money. You know? Yes. So I could work a day or two during the month and, you know, make as much as I was waitressing and doing stuff like that. So I kind of did that all the way through grad school. So, yeah, my life is a lot of big splashes and maybe what people would think are not so wise choices, but somehow they work for me. That is the story of my life. So, yes, that's interesting. Definitely. Thank you for sharing. And yeah, get, I mean, get the money, girl.

That's my call. Yeah. That's my call. Get the money. So it's very interesting because nowadays, like how I post for Playboy is not even like a thing. But Kellyn, I think you're around my age, girl. You know, it was a shocker. You know, it was before

twitter facebook was just starting to get big so to see a picture of somebody you know that you knew it was a big deal so this was maybe like the first the trial run for you said boredom leads to big splash leads to the world having a say and what you're doing with your life it was sort of like the trial run for the stint on survivor yes yes so um but you'd have to gossip in the old-fashioned way and which is uh to tell somebody who would tell somebody who would tell me and then what like cut out the print and like send it in the mail or you know how we used to gossip oh so-and-so was saying was asking about you because he said that it you know, stuff like that. Yes. Yes.

The old way before it was Twitter and before it was even Twitter or something like that. So that was interesting. So I've always like done risque, I would say things. Yeah. Less so now. But I i mean the thing is less so in that way maybe but how has it like built i think women most women many women or i should just speak for myself strive to every single day get closer to giving less of a shit about what people think about us and letting outside opinions of what beauty is, what standards, you know, beauty standards, how we should quote unquote behave, how she would show up as women in the world and be judged. Um, so as you went through those

experiences, what has it done to build your foundation of how you respond to when people have an opinion on how you live your life? So it's, it's funny because I do do these things that are kind of outside the norm and outside the mainstream and shocking at the time. And, and what I always realize is that people have short memories. Like you didn't even know until, unless I told you wouldn't, that people have short memories. Like you didn't even know, unless I told you wouldn't, right, exactly. People have short memories.

And you know what, what ultimately matters is what you think of yourself. The whole Playboy thing for me was, you know, like an experience. And also I was like, you know what, I'm black. I am an engineer. I look good. You know, and maybe I'm not gonna say Playboy is definitely, you know, and maybe I'm not going to say Playboy is definitely, you know, has exploited women and done all that. But for me, it was celebrating my beauty,

how I am and how I look different from the things you usually see there. I think when I posed, I had natural hair, you know, so I felt like it was very celebratory, you know, and again, I was using it celebratory you know um and again I was using it to get to another platform and that sort of thing and I should have known like I should have I did draw a little bit from those days too because I mean there were definitely people whispering about me but look again when you a boss ass bitch people gonna whisper always they gonna whisper if you you know whatever you're doing so if they talking let them talk that's what i would say my advice and i'm sure you have taken that before kellen that

you know let them talk you talk i do my thing i get to where i need to go i'm getting i'm getting better it was a it was a i struggled a lot with a lot of the internet hate stuff. I really had a hard time. I don't know. I don't know who didn't struggle. I mean, I don't care how like thick skin you think you are. When people are like tearing you for shreds on the internet, it hurts. Like, and the only thing you can do is just distance yourself. But it's hard. It's hard.

You know, and you think like if it happened to somebody else, you just like, oh, just shrug it off. It's hard. And you think if it happened to somebody else, you just like, oh, just shrug it off. It's nothing, but it's a lot. What could they say about you? What could they possibly have to say about my sweet Calvin? Girl, just Google it. You'll see. Oh, I'm just so annoying. I ruined this season, all of that, all that kind of stuff. A lot lot of surprisingly I don't know that I hate women which is just crazy to me um it was I don't even know I don't know what about me made people so mad my edit was pretty tame right meaty hooker yeah um I think just being like a woman who had a voice I was pretty hard on Dom I don't know if you met Dom but like during final tribal I was

like can you let other people speak like I had a bit of an was pretty hard on Dom. I don't know if you met Dom, but during Final Tribal, I was like, can you let other people speak? I had a bit of an attitude, quote unquote, what some people would think of as an attitude, I guess. And, you know, middle America, who watches Survivor a lot, wants women to sit there, be quiet, and look pretty. And so any woman who does anything other than that

typically gets quite a bit of feedback. Do you want women to be the background to the story. I think so. No main character energy for the ladies, right? I think so. Yeah. I think it's changing, you know, over time.

I think the new era feels a little bit different and all of that. So I look back at like the first 10 seasons of Survivor and the way that the women are portrayed and that sort of thing. We've come a long way. Yeah peanut butter you remember that the amazon peanut butter and crock shots yeah or something like i remember that so yeah i do think i do like that the new era of survivor is is more willing to give people uh the benefit of the doubt on the edits and understand that when you know everybody can be a hero in their own way and you don't have to be so harsh on people because people will be harsh enough

on themselves. What is this new one? The guy, I can't remember, like Jelinski. Okay, Jelinski, even though you know, 47-year-old, you know, several, all that kind of stuff, it still was good-hearted. Like, we know, like, that was dumb, but, you know, it's still funny. um it still was good-hearted like we know like

that was dumb but you know it's still funny like they actually made it funny you know or um i can't think of the guy's name janu who was uh crying all the time um who was just like winning a million hearts it's so great i love that stuff I don't understand why people like go crazy like disliking somebody for creating that amazing good tv like isn't this exactly what we want watching this is what I want watching survivor I want moments like to his knees and why has God forsaken me on this island honey like didn't everybody feel like that i was like i feel your pain like you don't want to say it but he said something to everybody like how the fuck did i get here well who did i piss off like so you know i like seeing that and instead of making fun of him for

it i love that they were like yes yes this is how people feel. So I thought he was a great character. I mean, yeah. So it's very interesting to me. I've been liking this new season. So I'm trying to get to the question. Yeah, no, no, no. I'll take you through the rapid round questions. So you already worked ahead and got some of them in.

So we're good here. But I just usually go through. You can answer as rapidly as you'd like. You said question one was how many times you applied for Survivor? Zero. You applied for Amazing Race. I thought we were just supposed to hit the questions and nothing else. Girl, I'm going to let you be a podcast and stop taking over.

Go ahead. You're fine. You're totally fine. Okay. So earlier you referenced in your survivor bio you chose intelligent adaptable and competitive as the three words that describe you you identify with those three is there any you want to take out and add no i think they'll still really describing um it's funny i did have you you're you're a leadership you know coaching person I did strength finders yeah

are you a strength are you familiar with strength finders yeah I have heard of it yes I think I've actually done it I don't know what my results are off the top of my mind but yeah so it's funny because um I took it and again I think being successful in life is like knowing yourself. And that is something that, you know, Survivor helped me with. And knowing yourself and knowing, again, what's good for you and when to cut your losses. So I still think I am intelligent, adaptable, competitive. Like my strength finders are like command, competitive, communication, woo, winning over others. And I can't remember my last one, but it has something to do with influencing too. And so I try to, in my life, find situations that use those strengths and avoid situations that don't.

That is like my mantra in life. I know what I'm good at. I know a good box that I fit in. And I try to stay in that box and maximize that box. And it helps maximize my joy too. So that's really what I've led my life. So that's, what's led me into like leadership positions, you know, this command and communication and adaptable. Like I, if I had to sit down and program, I could, I would die inside. But if you need me to tell somebody about somebody's

programming and make them excited about their programming, I can do that, you know, and that uses the skills that I have. It's so interesting with the STEM mind, the math and science and getting to combine that with this outward communicative style. It's, I don't know, I haven't met too many engineers that really lead with a lot of outward communication command and leadership. So cool. What a fun match. Yes, that's what I said. So when that clicked for me, I was like, oh, I'm about to do this.

So one of the things that I figured this out when I after I came back from Survivor and I left my job because that job really was like kind of one on one down in the weeds, writing papers. I hate writing. So I went and I got a job that was a lot involved science tech. It was more fast paced. It was a lot of reading, analyzing and then disseminating and summarizing. I love that it was, you know, working with a team of engineers where they did, you know, the deep analysis and it was my job to kind of sift through it and, you know, get the finer points. Also, it was in national security. So that gave me a sense of wanting to go to work. Because if I was going to work and no offense to, you know, like consumer product goods, but if I was going to work trying to sell Pop-Tarts, I don't think my heart would be in it. But when I go to work and I'm defending America, or I'm doing something or building some technology

that makes our world safer or our energy sources safer, that gets me going. Yeah. Having that purpose, like the passion and purpose piece tied to it for real and just being self-aware enough to not put yourself in a box where it's not meaningful to you. So some people don't ever get that sorted in life and live quite miserably. And so I imagine this makes, Hey, you just said you're getting ready to go to Ohio, Idaho, Idaho for work. So with this passion piece and actually caring about what you do, does it makes getting in the car and going to Idaho for a bit? Not so, not so bad,

right? Absolutely. So yes, I mean, I have been in situations where like, if I worked for Google, I'd have like a shiny new office and, you know, a big old expense budget and stuff like that. But I work for, I'm a U.S. government contractor. So I fly to Idaho, you know, and I work in Idaho because that's where we can build reactors. And that's where we can build technology at scale. And that is so cool and important to me that I'm willing to do that. So it makes me feel good. It makes me, you know, get up and go to work. I'm willing to do that.

So it helps. It makes me feel good. It makes me, you know, get up and go to work. Which is always a good thing to not just struggle through that entire time. I do think that is like a common thing with being on Survivor. A lot of us have come back and have just decided not to settle for a miserable kind of grind life. I haven't quite sorted exactly what that piece of it is. If it's the island part, if it's the going on the TV,

if it's just the grandiosity of it, do you have any idea of why that it, what's that switch in you is like, I'm not going to go back to the grind. We, a lot of us have had that. I think that you have such unique experiences and you can see what's possible.

Like they basically set up a whole little mini city, you know, have the smallest of details. Like one of the details that was kind of interesting to me, you know, how many, you know, how much paperwork you fill out to go on survivor. Right. It is like ridiculously endlessly. Like I don't even remember writing some of these, like what are your favorite treats, right?

And then when I got off the island, they handed me a bag, dirty, in the back of the production truck of Doritos, Oreos, and Mentos. And I went to town with dirty hands with, look, those are the freshest Mentos, the Freshmaker, I was on it, okay? I was like, oh my God,

I can't even believe you remember that but like I don't know if I realized how detailed people could be about little things like the psychology test and knowing um like what pushes your buttons I swear the people on survivor read what pushed my buttons and did exactly that. Like, you know, I packaged it up as Garrett Adelstein and put it right next to you. That producer knew what to say to get me mad at him, because I remember writing down like I hate when people like insult my intelligence or think that I'm not smart because I look like what I look like or something like that. And she said, he's treating you like you couldn't, you couldn't be as smart as him. I was like, girl, look. You noticed that too? Here I go.

I was like, I'm on it. I'm on it. He ain't going to eat a day. But I guess the fact that they wrote that down, that I wrote that down and they noted it. So I learned about like being strategic and being meticulous, not necessarily. And some also from the people on the beach, like when I jumped on the beach and then Spencer knew every single fact about survival. He was like, oh, no, no. We merge at this day. I was like, oh, you study like you took notes. You did all this. Look, I'm just coming out here like I no we merge at this day I was like oh you studied like you took notes you did all this look I'm just coming out here like I know we merged at some no he had meticulous notes so I think you get exposed to that like how much can go into these things and then you're like why

am I not putting this in like why am I not going as hard as this I think that's kind of the thing that was a very long explanation. No, it's so many pieces of it. It's so interesting meeting other people who do look at the world differently and have a different, literal different version of how I got to where you are and what's happening at the same time. And I think for me, it opened up a lot of new ways to think, to be. And also, it was just so nice to be away from the grind of it all. I think in a way that I think that's part of it too. We just got to leave our phones behind as crazy as the experience may have been for us to be offline and to just be with ourselves,

I think is something that we all crave leaving the, leaving that experience as well. So because you were on the jury, so sad for you, you didn't get a pre-jury trip. And so after Survivor, they took us to Thailand and we were like off in Thailand for a good, I want to say 15, like three weeks or so,

almost three weeks. That was amazing. And it was free. I mean, it wasn't like super luxury, but I didn't have to pay food. I, you know, I got massages every freaking day. Um, it was, it was an amazing experience. Like I haven't had honestly a vacation. It wasn't the people I would have wanted to go with, but the experience was amazing. I also got to meet some really good people and became really good friends with Bryce. Bryce is a really good friend of mine. And it was very interesting to see his perspective.

We have definitely rubbed off on each other. So I am big into finances. And so I talked to him. I would be talking his ear off. What you saying, man? What's your credit score looking like? We talking about that, you know, has upped my fashion game. And so like, we talked about, you know, all these different things that I don't think I was necessarily,

you know, like, you do better when your friends are better. And when you are exposed to experiences that are, you know, kind of higher caliber, it spurs you on. What do you think, Ellen? Definitely the grandiosity of it. Yeah. And I was, I didn't get to go to Thailand and have a massage every day, but there, I still was at Ponderosa for a week and yeah, meeting new people who, yeah, I think it's just the same of earlier. It's meeting new people who have experienced life differently than I have and to see all the different options of like one person was a model. Another person was this and not just our jobs, but where we came from. So I think it just opened up my mind.

And honestly, just the experience of it coming together where I was like, holy shit, thousands of people want to do this. And if I can get chosen to do this, which I never thought I could never in a million years when I made that video, did I think I would be chosen? I'm like, what else can I do in life if I just try? I think that's exactly. So it's that it's that like, you can you can do this. You can put this together. Like I think one time we were filming a challenge and I was like, oh my gosh, that is a lot of cameras. I was like, who knew?

Who thought that we had to have a camera here? You know, like that's a lot of like meticulous and stuff like that. And then I think of the people, every person that I have met on Survivor, I think Survivor casting does an amazing job. And everybody has a story. Anybody can be a compelling winner.

They don't pick people who if they won, they'd like. So that makes them pick interesting people. Certainly. Yes, I love that. I feel like I've been looking for that phrase when people ask me about this podcast. That's it. Every person who's on Survivor could has the life story to be a compelling winner. And we only get to hear one of those stories.

This is where we hear the rest of the stories. I think you just changed all of my marketing for this show. Thank you. I'll give you as many royalties as I can ever. I just want this podcast to be successful, honey. And for you to have abundance and all of that. So whatever I can do to help. I'm always... Look, I can talk. That's the one thing I got.

I can talk and stuff like that. But, and also I love talking to survivor people. I get, you know, it was like a weird, crazy summer camp that we were all in, even if we weren't there. It is an instant bond if we choose to. I've had lots of great experience. And it sounds like now that you had that time of becoming, getting married, becoming a mom and all that stuff. And you're coming back into having

these survivor community moments. And it's something that is what we make it and will be here for us if we need it, the upside of the, of the survivor community. So overall, if you can think of from, you know, the day you applied for the amazing race to today, what was the hardest part of the survivor experience and what was the best part? The hardest part of the survivor experience was, yes, acclimating back into the real world. And being announced and then being on the show and handling the comments and just the scrutiny, I want to say, on your life from a very small sliver yeah yeah and then the hardest part and the best part being on Survivor I mean like it's knowing that you got cast again like you were saying from thousands that this whole production was put together this

whole game was put together and you get to play it it's pretty kick-ass it is it is and they had your Doritos and your Mentos and your Oreos right there right there for when it was over if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice on day one on that on that starting day what would it be I don't know if I could give myself any advice. First of all, I wouldn't listen. I'm going to be very clear. Like I know I wouldn't listen to me. I wouldn't listen to nobody. I have my own mind. Honestly, Kellen, I'm going to tell you, I don't know what I could have done for it not to be as jacked up as it was. Like it, it don't know it was what it was funny like it was the it was the the firecracker soup of what it was going to be and accepting that in our lives that it it

was what it was like I truly believe that like the winners are destined to be the winner and like deep down they know they're gonna win um really i i do i i think that okay i think that they all all of a lot of the winners i've talked to first of all they all say yes they believe they could win i didn't i didn't deep down believe i could win i was like just don't be voted out first and then maybe possibly i could win. But did you think you could win? I believed I could win. I didn't think I was going to. I believed I could. And so my philosophy is a little different.

I feel like you could have put all of those same people back on the beach and changed one little thing and it could have gone differently. But we don't know what it would have been or anything and it was fate it was it was already in the soup like yeah yes I yes I think we were it's so interesting because it's to the same result which is like it was already in the soup but if you change the ingredients of the soup, we're written by destiny.

And therefore, that's why that person won. But if you go on a different day, the different thing, yes, I think we're in the same camp. The way it happened was how it was always going to happen. But on a different day with a different gust of wind, somebody else could have won. Yeah. Yeah, yeah different day with a different gust of wind somebody else could have won yeah yeah yeah a different flap of the butterfly wings you know that sort of thing um but i think i don't know now that i think about it maybe not volunteer for the puzzle

that may have changed something but i think it would have been just as bad like i was already so um i mean had i been on the beauty tribe i think it would have been different um so i i don't know over there jeff that would be the advice i was like i'm not on the beauty tribe well you could have been on all of them i think after we we hear about your background um other than survivoror, and I know you're not going to hide it, that you're a big old reality TV fan. So other than Survivor, what's your favorite reality TV show? So my favorite is Real Housewives. Potomac is my favorite. I used to love Atlanta. I watched Jersey for a while. I watched DC when DC was on. I watched Orange County when Orange County first came out.

So I watched New York. So I've had phases. I've watched Beverly Hills, but Housewives, it's fun. Yeah, I actually do a podcast with Bryce. We recap The Real Housewives of the Potomac. And I used to live in that area. That's where both my kids were born in the DC area. But I just think it's fun and fluffy. You know, I like to see the women and see how they live in.

You know, I like to see Miss Vanderpump in her house, even though she ain't on there no more. So it's just it's just nice. All in good fun. All in good fun. I don't like it when they really fight, though. Oh, when it's real fighting, that doesn't feel. Or when it gets too personal. I like nice gentle shade, like insult when they have on, oh when it's real fighting that doesn't feel or when it gets too personal i like nice gentle shade like insult when they have on you know do that insult their haircut because i'll laugh for days if you insult somebody's haircut you know like because especially if it's the one of the black um installments the haircut gonna change in the next scene anyway so it's just you know good fun it's. It's a temporary, a temporary jab. Yes, a temporary jab, a nice light, you know, jab.

So I really like those. It's escapism. It's good to talk to my friends about what they're doing. I buy various housewife products. I'm trying to think, what do I have? I think I have a hat from one of the Real Housewives. I have the... You're a fan. Capital, capital F-A- capital fan fan you've got the gear

you're all you're all in you're doing the podcast what's the name of your podcast um oh you know what it's a purple pants podcast uh our real housewives of rock um yeah so cool perfect we'll link it in the show notes for any real housewives fans out there. Or it would be a great listen, I would think, just to hear you and Bryce talk in and of itself. Sometimes we go off the rail often because that's my bud. So, yeah. Where is your favorite place in the world that listeners could visit? As in some people are like my bedroom reading a book. I have to say Thailand I Thailand trip yeah that I'm like it was a great experience um the weather is great the people are super nice it's beautiful um is there a book or article you've read that's changed your life or you just love?

I'm going to go back to Strength Finders. So Strength Finders is a book. And I would say, yeah, it changed my life because it helped me name the things that are my strengths and help me understand myself a little bit better. I mean, therapy has been great. Right. and help me understand myself a little bit better. I mean, therapy has been great, right? But also strength finders is like this quiz you do. And it basically tells you what are your greatest natural strengths. They give you five top categories. And like, yeah, I've picked jobs for that. I recently I'm in this community group, and we had to pick committees. And I was like, okay, let me think of my strength finders. And then I picked the committee. Like, I know that

I cannot really, oh, I don't know how to say this. Sometimes I'm not the best at dealing with people, let's be honest. And so, so I was like, okay, let me not get on the committee that actually has to plan like with other people and be cooperative. I'm going to be on the bylaws committee. So I thought that was good. I was like, I'm going to be on the bylaws committee where I just have to pick things. And that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

And the world needs that. I mean, the idea of the strength finder is that we all need to use our strengths in different ways and somebody else could not do the bylaws section of being on the community event. So it's great that there are all kinds. Do you have a, other than the podcast you're on, which is totally okay to call it out. Do you have other favorite podcasts that you like or? I think this one is fantastic. This one is this one. I mean, I don't listen to I'm going to be honest. I don't listen to a ton of podcasts. I like NPR. So you know, I mean, but who don't like NPR like Morning Edition, I get my little science Friday. I like that. Um, there is the

nerd at podcast, I guess, but I usually hear it on, um, NPR, but nerd it. I love, um, I haven't heard of that one. Yeah. It's, um, produced by WBEZ, which is the local NPR station in Chicago. So let me name drop nerd it. I'll say that. Cool. That's I'll check that out. Um, are you a music person, music gal, Sarah song you listen to on repeat right now for some, somebody told me I should make a play survivor playlist of everyone's favorite songs. So that is funny. Um, I am a very cash music listener. Um, I listened to what's whatever is on the radio. music listener um i listen to what's whatever is on the radio um so i the the latest one was sZA kill bill okay i'll i'm i'm a i'm less of a music can less than casual i hardly ever so but i'm sure it's great i will link it and some people will be really excited about it i'm sure

so i heard it on the radio and then I was like, what is the name of that song that I'm singing now? It's a dark content. So I can't listen to a lot of music unless my kids, my kids, what do my kids have on repeat? It is a horrible song. Oh my gosh.

Hold on. I gotta, I gotta think about it. It's welcome to the, it's imagine dragons dragons it's an imagine dragon oh imagine dragons that's what's on repeat not thunder yeah like welcome to the new age that one i've tried to get that that one's radioactive i tried to get them to like that one because it's talking about radio radioactivity but mom's trying too hard it is i bones i feel it in my phone yeah yeah yeah okay

that one's that's an earworm that'll stick with us um and last but not least jatia where can people find you what are you up to next anything you want to plug to the audience what are what would you like to share so i would like to share that I am very happy to be asked to be on here. Like I said, I love talking to survivor people because they're really interesting people. And so are you, Kellen. So thank you. I want to say that. I am on Instagram and Twitter, more Instagram than Twitter at JTIAPHD. Doing nothing, you know, just chilling. Nothing, just raising two human beings,

running nuclear nonproliferation. And other than that, nothing, huh? Correct. Trying to make sure nuclear weapons don't fall into the wrong hands, that science and technology are used in the correct manner. The huge.

I'm working at Idaho National Laboratory right now. I'm a division director for nuclear nonproliferation. So that keeps me busy and very interested. We do a lot in cybersecurity, nuclear cybersecurity as well. I talk about my job. I talk about my life. I'm recovering. I'm a breast cancer survivor. So very happy about that. That's what I've been focusing on a lot this last year. So I want to tell all the women out there to go get your mammogram, especially if you are high risk, don't delay. Start early and often, I would say. Yes. And I think like the recommendation I heard last is when you're 40 to start getting annual mammograms. Is that correct?

Or should we start earlier? Because you were younger than that, right? I was just at the threshold and I actually started getting mine earlier. You should get earlier if you have any kind of history of breast cancer. I would even say, you know, 25, 30, if you have a history of breast cancer in your family, it's never too early. Get your mammogram. If you find a lump, because I know women who have been 25 in their 20s and 30s. I was diagnosed when I was 41.

And I went for my first mammogram when I was 40. And when I went back the next year, I had stage three cancer. So be safe. Check it out. It's happening to younger and younger women. It used to be a disease for older women, but now the rates are escalating for younger women. And also in Black women, correct? It is a higher risk for Black women. Yes. Black women have a more aggressive form of the disease. So there is a Glennon Doyle who's on We Can Do Hard Things podcast. Her sister was just diagnosed with breast cancer.

And they've had just recently on the last couple episodes, experts on about breast cancer awareness and all that. I learned so much from those two podcasts. So I'll link those in the show notes about dense breast tissue and how mammograms don't even show breast cancer. And then that's how it can show up, quote unquote, show up a year later. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to me. I have dense breasts,

though I didn't even have that much breast. I didn't have huge knockers. So I would say, yeah, encourage you to get them checked out. Yes. And I think there are a couple of organizations as well that help people get connected. And I think there's a nonprofit that can help with transportation. If there's anyone listening who has trouble with transportation and is still interested in getting a mammogram and a screening and all that so i will link all of that in the show notes as well thank you kellen yes of course and anything else before we sign off here um i would say that everybody needs to make sure that they hit the follow button for kellen's podcast

so that you can subscribe and also get it delivered when you have new episodes because we got to hear what's going on with our favorite survivors. Oh, thank you for the plug, Jatia. I appreciate it. Better than I can do myself. So I appreciate that so much. Thanks for being here with me today.

Honestly, I feel like I could do an entire series just on you and your life. There's so many wonderful, amazing, curious things that you've done in the world and as a woman who I look up to want to be more like and I am just so thankful that you took time to to be here with me today and I'm sure everybody loved getting to hear more about Jatia. I have totally enjoyed myself. Thank you. Yeah. You take care. Hope to see you in Chicago soon. Oh my gosh. Oh, that episode, that time with Jatia was so amazing. This is the epitome of why road to reality exists. We all remember, many of us remember jatia as the woman who dumped out the rice and she graduated high school at 15 started college then oh my goodness has become a nuclear

engineer was a playboy model like i was just fascinated by her story, her resilience, the way she approaches being such an inspiring, strong woman in this world. I look up to her so much and was so just enamored with her and that conversation. And I hope I get to see Jatia every time I go to Chicago. It was so fun to see those of you who were at the event that Jati and I were talking about at the Brace and Win live event. If any of you were there and you came up to me and you're still listening, thank you so much for coming up to me and saying that you like the show. It means the world to me and keeps us all going and keeps allowing us to have these conversations where we get to actually meet survivors as who they are. I am so thankful for each of you for listening. I'll see you next time.

I'd like to thank Rob Sestranino and the entire RHAP team for their support in making this podcast. Jessica Sterling is the editor. Tricky Rice created the artwork. To all of my fellow survivors, thank you for showing up for free to give me and all the listeners a look into your lives that we wouldn't otherwise get to see. And much gratitude to all of you listening. If you'd like to connect,

and only if you're kind, you can find me on social media at TheKellenB or at kellenbechtel.com where I, as a holistic career coach, try to give away as many free resources as I can to help people find more happiness and success in their career journeys. May each of your realities lead down a road of peace, joy, and a whole lot of adventure. And now, here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

Her name is Mira from Manhattan. Her name is Chelsea from Chelsea. Her name is Krista from Columbus. It doesn't matter much to me Now she's staring out the window She's turning on the night She takes a pen to her new novel and the airplane takes flight I never knew I never knew I never knew I never knew. I never knew.

You. Now we're flying out to Dublin Just to stop along the trail Mira hops from there to Paris I ride to Belfast on the rail. Now she's cheering in the winery. I'm staring at the sea. Her name is Mira from Manhattan. It doesn't matter much to me.

Mmm, I never knew. Mmm, I never knew. Mmm, I never knew. I never knew. I never knew. You. You. Thank you.