RHAP: We Know Survivor - Road to Reality | Defying the Odds with David Wright

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Episode 7 of Road to Reality features David Wright (Millennials vs Gen X & Edge of Extinction). Join David (@realdavewright) and Kellyn (@theKellynB) as they really dig into the powerful, life changing effect that Survivor had on David’s self-perception and his relationship with and management of his anxiety. They cover topics ranging from David’s childhood on the East Coast to becoming a writer on hit shows like Family Guy, Malcolm In The Middle and The Gimmicks.

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but when a weekend getaway turns into a nightmare, Iris realizes that things aren't as perfect as they appear. From the creators of Barbarian and the studio that brought you The Notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge. Companion, only in theaters January 31st. Hey everybody, welcome back to road to reality today we are talking to someone that i think i rooted harder for playing survivor maybe than anyone else david wright you know him from millennials versus gen x and edge of extinction he's here with us today to talk about how Survivor really had a life-changing effect on his perception of himself, of his abilities, of his relationship and management of his

anxiety. We cover topics ranging from David's childhood on the East Coast all the way to becoming a writer on hit shows like Malcolm in the Middle and Family Guy in Hollywood. We kick off here sort of in the middle of our conversation catching up after we were both in Las Vegas this past April for a fellow survivor's wedding. I present to you, ah, we got off topic while we were doing the thing where we check in on people's descriptions of themselves. So I wrote these three words of how I would describe David Wright since he didn't get to choose his own because we talked right over it, which is a sign of how much we were just getting on and having a great time having a conversation. So I'm excited for you to join us as we talk to

the relatable, kind, and magnetic David Wright. I tracked you down at Adam Klein's wedding this spring and I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, I'm doing this podcast. And you're like, oh yeah, I know about it, which was so flattering to me, by the way. I was like, I told my husband, I was like, I can't believe he knew about Road to Reality. I was flattered by that. And then I said, well, would you do it? And you're like, you're not somebody who's like, hell yeah, I'm going to do it. There's a little hesitation. What's that all about? I, I really don't like talking about myself. It makes me so uncomfortable. Um, and I get some fat, like, um, like the podcast interviews like this, it's, you know,

this is a recording, it feels live. And I absolutely hate anything live. I hate when I have an awareness and I'm being recorded because it just gets in my head. It's like, it's like I play guitar just as like a hobby, but anytime I'll like I'll write songs or whatever, but anytime I go to record it, I just make so many mistakes and I just get in my head about it. So yeah, that was my hesitation. That's why like, this isn't a thing anymore, but with Survivor, the live reunion show for me was

the absolute worst part of the entire experience. It's like, I do not want to be on live television. And especially when you know that you've only got this like little 30 second block and in my head, I'm not like a perfectionist. Like I'm a perfectionist who never makes anything perfect. So I'm like, oh, that's a perfect window for me to completely fail and whiff. And so, yeah, I hated that aspect, but, but yeah, I thought this would also be fun. I wanted to challenge myself. So here I am. Yeah. Look, here's here. Here you are been challenging yourself through like the lens Survivor since we started when we knew you. So a little bit of context around. I had applied, didn't hear anything for a year, applied the second time and your season was airing as I was first starting to get calls and talking to my casting director and stuff. So like your millennial Gen X is like what was on TV when I was realizing that I might have a shot at this. So it's so salient in my memory.

Like it was the first time I was watching the show where I was like, oh my gosh, like I'd always dreamed what if it was me, but this was like, oh my gosh, this might actually be me. And so I think it's, that's why it's the season I remember the most maybe in a sense of, or I felt like I really wanted to get to know the people as human beings the most once I realized I had a shot. So just so you know, that's the, that's the lens in which I was watching your first time on the show. That's really cool. Yeah, it's, it really changed things in the in the perception was there a season that you remember watching like while you started to get into casting or

it doesn't it's not on a scale like that it was um it was co-wrong i believe is what was airing um uh but yeah i um well like i like going back a little bit, actually, first, I came to Survivor very late. I not to take this immediately, do like immediately to a dark place. But so the show premiered, Survivor premiered as a series like the week my best friend and roommate died. So I that's why I missed it. So it took me like 10 years until I found it. I was living with my now writing partner and I was walking through the family room and he was watching Survivor. It was heroes versus villains, as was Aaron. I'm like, oh, this is what Survivor is.

And I sat down and I see like Rupert covered in mud. I'm like, oh, this is actually kind of interesting. So I ordered the season one on DVD. Oh, yeah, baby, get those DVDs delivered. Oh, I loved it. And yeah, I watched the whole thing in like two days. And then I just started watching it as it would air. And I got all the other DVDs.

And then when I got to South Pacific with John Cochran, I was like, oh, I saw myself for like the first time. And I thought, well, he can do it. Not that he had won that season, but I'm like, if he can do it, I can do it. And then I started to get the bug. And then fast forward to, I got to participate in this like contest to play chess against Magnus Carlsen.

There was like, I think 18 of us. And it was a global competition. They took 100 people from the entire world and then pulled out like 18 names. And I was one of them. And I did that just by earning a bunch of points on the Magnus Carlsen app. If I said it or not, he was the number one chess player in the world. Yeah. I know. I do not even know how to play chess, but I have even heard his name. So that's good. Yeah. I mean, he's the highest rated ever. He's amazing. And yeah, I was just so inspired. I mean, I'm not a very good chess player, but I was so inspired

in this opportunity to play chess against him. I thought that'd be like the coolest, most fun experience. So I made it happen. And after making that happen, I thought, well, the odds of that happening are like more difficult than the odds of getting on Survivor. So if I can make that happen, I got to make Survivor happen. So I paid for like Skype calls with contestants to figure out like, what do I do? What am I doing wrong? Because I had to apply before and heard nothing. what do I do? What am I doing wrong? Because I had to apply before and heard nothing. And yeah, that led me down the path. So yeah, once I got the call from casting, it was co-wrong. The funny thing is the advice I got, and it's so obvious, and it's honestly, it's the advice that Jeff gives. Because before I talked to the people that know, I really wasn't being myself in my

casting videos. It was actually one cast video that I wasn't being myself. So I did, I did a, an open casting call. Wasn't being myself. I did a video. Wasn't being myself to people who know better be yourself. I think as Rob puts it, that's an email, you know, be a triple espresso version of yourself. And yeah, that's what I did. And, and it was more genuine. So I so I, I needed the coaching. I needed somebody to say, stop trying to put on these airs of what are you just, you are. And, uh, and yeah, and then I got a, then I got a call. Yeah. Right. I know it's so it's, isn't it the most annoying

thing of like reading, getting the advice to be yourself? Cause you're like, what does that even mean? But then once you do it, then it just makes the most sense because you feel that it, or at least for me, I should only speak for myself. Like when I, I think I just saw like Lynn Spillman on a YouTube video or something like an old one where she had said, like, we just really want you to be yourself. Like don't plan it or something. And I just sat down, pressed record and, you know, talk to somebody like I was going to talk somebody's ear off as if I had had, yes, a triple espresso, maybe a vodka martini. That's what I went with. So, but when you drop into that space and you do show up authentically, like,

and you can press record it, you feel it I I can remember my friend who's coming on up on 47 I didn't go through her audition tapes or whatever but she texted me one day and was like I felt it that time like I felt I was just myself and uh so that's what you're looking for everybody you will know when it's the video to send in that's what I always say but uh Alas Korong was a great season it was all in that time that we you and I were sort of like in the same era of Survivor, we can say. So you and I have crossed paths a little bit. You are still coming to some of the maybe you still are. But you came to some of the things kind and gracious, especially when I was in like the torment of the time between filming and airing. I remember you and Zeke being just incredibly supportive and holding space for me at that time. And I really appreciate that. Yeah, that was in Big Bear, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, in Tahoe is Big Bear next to tahoe yes yes okay i don't know where big bear is so no yeah no yeah we're running we were running a spartan that's what yes yeah yeah ah that feels forever ago i mean i guess it kind of was kind of what i mean it's now that was 20 somewhere in like 2017 i think yeah oh wow yeah and you were like the veteran you had been there you knew what was going on and then here here I was showing up like help me I don't know what's gonna happen here so yeah I know it is funny I mean like kind of living vicariously through you like again like what that was like that headspace because I remember that very well I remember being just so anxious about like what's going to get shown.

Cause like when you're doing it out there, there's some things that happen and you're like, Oh, this is definitely going to make the episode, you know, in a good or bad way. Although some things that would happen. And I was always surprised that sometimes they didn't make it there for whatever reason, but, but yeah, no um but yeah no it's such an anxious experience and again that not not anymore but then leading up to the live reunion like oh no please that was a lot that is it's and I guess I kind of had not thought about it that way but that is the

most pressure I felt in the whole time as well is when they were like prepping me because I was going to get a question on the live TV and I was just trying to block out the fact that it was going to be like on live television. And still in my mind, it wasn't live television, but I guess it was. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it was. It really blocked that out. The other aspect too, about the live reunion show is that I, you know, you're, you're just celebrating your season you're answering these questions and then at the end they show the trailer for the next season and

then you just instantly feel like a husband like inside the same hour and a half or whatever it's it's really a unique experience yeah i wish that i wow we're talking about how torturous it was in some ways it was really fun and i do feel i, I wish they would bring them back for the new, I mean, I don't think 47 at least is going to have one. So, um, from what I've heard, but I wish that people would have that. We got to experience a lot doing the full 39 days. You, you know, right. So I do want to go back to, I don't know where you would want to start in your, but I don't know, where did you grow up? Where were you born? Where did you grow up? I grew up in outside Philadelphia, suburban Philadelphia and that I would, it used to be every weekend I would move into the other house and then pack up my things the following weekend. And it was really chaotic. And then eventually it became every two weeks. But anyway, yeah, I grew up there in suburban Philadelphia, watched a ton of TV. I was terrible at sports. I had friends, but like, um, I just,

I always felt like kind of behind my peers. Like I was like, they seem to know how to live life much better than I did at the same age. And I was so naive and just confused all the time. Like I remember in, um, elementary school, second grade, there was an announcement on the loudspeaker in the morning that all brownies had to report to this room at the end of the school day. And I didn't know what a brownie was, but the voice was so authoritative. I'm like, Oh, I think I'm probably a brownie. I think I'm supposed to go to this room. And so at the end of the day, I walk into the room, there's all these little girls in brown uniforms and berets.'m like okay I don't I don't think I'm a brownie oh wait I guess

that wasn't the call for me yeah yeah and it's funny too because uh when I went out the place for the second time Don Ross asked what were your most one of your most embarrassing experiences I said I thought I was a Girl Scout because I thought it would be too confusing to say Brownie, but in hindsight saying I thought I was a Girl Scout is probably way more confusing. Oh yeah. I get, I get the desire for clarity there, but then like, Oh wait, what? You thought you were a Girl Scout? Yeah. Oops. I see, I see the confusion there. So you feel like that is, like that's your memory of being a kid is like it felt like other people knew what was going on and you didn't.

Was it? Yeah. What was your like nuclear family? You said your parents were divorced. Did you have siblings? Were you young? At what, in what age order are you and your siblings? There's two of us.

My brother's older. He's eight years older. So I'm clearly an accident. And I actually confirmed. My dad's like, yeah, I didn't know I was having you. But yeah, my brother and I are actually very close despite the age gap. Yeah, it was just the four of us. And growing up in this townhouse. And it's funny, like my childhood memories of that neighborhood, especially, is that it was like so large and huge. And there was this alleyway where I would spend most of. And it's insane just how like tiny it is.

It's just so small. And in memory, it's still huge and larger than life. But when you're actually standing there as an adult, it's like it's almost like a model or something. It's so tiny. It's so... Oh my gosh. I just had that experience.

I think for the first time in my life, I went to my husband's living around here for the first time. And he grew up in Atlanta and Spain, all over the world, you know, traveling all the time. And he really wanted to go to the county fair. And so we went to the county fair. I took him and I was like, oh my gosh, it's so big. It's going to be so big. There's all these things. And we got there and we walked in and like, you can see all the way from one end of the fair to the other. Like you can kind of see the whole thing where you're standing when you walk in.

And I was like, wait a second. I thought my parents like couldn't, I thought I got to run off on my own in the big old fair. I'm like, my parents could see me the whole time. Yeah. And you think you're just like going miles and miles out. Yeah. I mean, as a kid, there's a place in Philadelphia called the franklin institute it's like the science museum and they have this gigantic human heart that as a kid you can like travel through and go through and again in my memory it's so huge and you go back there and it's like i could not fit into it today it wouldn't be possible

it seems so yeah it's funny how memory and childhood yeah the sizing sorts its way out differently what was that like to ascribe that now I'm picturing myself like walking into survivor for me that was almost the opposite experience where like what I had seen on tv it looked really big those challenges and stuff and it looked grand and huge and grandeur and all the art and all that stuff. And then I got there and then it was even bigger than I did. And the challenges and the beauty of it all was even bigger than I thought. Was that your experience? Yeah. You're really taking me back right now because, um, I re I re the first few days feel like this morning.

Like it was so intense that I can remember it all. And I remember like, you know, we recording like the helicopter, then the marooning, we were doing all the recording for that. It was probably like two hours. And I remember, yeah, it's like, okay, we're going to go maroon now

and Jeff's going to be there waiting for you. I'm like, okay, yeah, this is Survivor. I know. And then we beach. And then you just see the fourth wall of like production people. And it's like, oh God. And then I started to get really anxious. And then, you know, the first challenge started.

And I just, I was starting to have a panic attack. And as I'm starting to have a panic attack, Jeff does his 39 days, you know, 20 people, which actually did not air that way. He then recorded it again, like on top of a mountain or something. And that's the version they use. But I remember as I'm having this panic attack and I'm hearing his voice, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm inside this show and I'm freaking out. And it's only we're only like 10 minutes into it. But, yeah, it seemed so massive and just this really otherworldly experience.

There's really nothing else to compare it to. How did you, I can feel like I can almost feel my heart rate increasing now thinking about those first few minutes myself also on the beat. It is for me, maybe I didn't make it far enough in the game, but for me, it was the most intense time of the entire experience. Those first few minutes, like getting on the, my I literally thought my heart like I was like, am I bleeding out of my ears? Like it was so hot and the heart was going like so fast. God, I thank God I didn't have to run a challenge. Did you have to do a challenge right there during the marooning?

Yeah. And it was like and I raced up this like kind of small hill to get some like supplies and stuff and and I and I think oh that's right you guys had to go get stuff pick stuff yeah yeah and like and like and like I think Will or Adam or somebody pushed me to the ground I'm like they can do that I think that makes the air right that they knocked you over me probably did yeah I haven't seen the season in forever so I don't even remember like what's my memory what actually made the air anymore but uh but yeah um how were you talking to yourself during those moments like what were you doing to like because watching we I literally just re-watched your because of seeing you at the wedding and all

of Adam and everybody and Andrea and my husband hadn't seen your season. So he was like, Oh, we have to go and watch all these people, which was, it was a very fun rewatch. I was like, damn, this season was so good. No wonder I was in love with survivor in, in those moments. But what are you doing? Cause you can't tell. I mean, of course there's like the, the shtick maybe and very real, but also the edit of the anxious guy. But how are you, you're still keeping it together. Like, what are you doing to self-talk in those moments to not just curl up in a ball, which is what I felt like doing? Well, I mean, I did lose my mind those first couple of days. So I wasn't really doing anything to prevent that.

Yeah, because I mean, the problem is I bing, I, I binged all the seasons again before I played, like leading up to it. And so I had like the pace of the show in my head rather than the pace of the actual game and the experience out there. So I just had like my foot on the gas and I was just coming in. Like, I feel like I could feel my neurons like pumping into each other. Like I was just thinking so fast and too much and, and I just wasn't calm. And so, yeah, like I was making, I thought everybody wanted to vote me out. I thought

everybody hated me. I felt, I felt weak and all these things, some of them were probably true. And, and then like the, the cyclone came and, and, and they evacuated us. And thank God, you know, cause I, that,

that's what like gave me a, a chance to just calm down and like collect myself. It's like, okay, you can get it together. And, and I remember actually

when we were being evacuated though, I did this one thing cause I, I still have a giant fear of death. I think about it every day still. But I mean, I, I manage it better than i did before survivor that definitely helped but it's still on my mind constantly and i remember when they're loading us onto the boats to

evacuate us during the cyclone uh and uh i thought this is this boat like we're about to go out to sea i don't see any other islands out there i'm like this boat is going to capsize it's like it was like windy and rainy and like i'm going to to die. Cause I'm getting on a boat to go die in a cyclone. Great. Yeah. And the irony of dying on a show called survivor, you know, like, Nope, not me. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology here. Innovation innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents,

winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Were the panic attacks things that have happened? Like, can you remember when you were, you talked about being young in second grade, going to the Brownie meeting.

Were you having anxiety and panic attacks at that young age or did that develop later in life? I definitely had anxiety, but my first panic attack wasn't until literally 24 years ago. It was shortly after my, my friend died. That definitely was like this like pivotal moment in my life. And again, obviously resonated, I'm sure with my fear of death because that's, that's been there since I was a kid. And yeah, like I, I, it felt like, like I was like leaving my body, like my mind was leaving my body and like my heart was racing.

And and I've had I've had countless panic attacks, but like not all of them have been like that nuclear level. Yeah. I had one. I was I was working as a writer's assistant at Malcolm in the Middle. And we were working really long hours and I wasn't getting any sleep. And I had just turned 29. And it's stupid to say that I felt old at 29, but I did. Not in like a week or decrepit, but I just felt like, oh God, 29 years old, like my life's almost over. And so I had this ice blended mocha and all those things, all that caffeine. And my heart started racing and I thought I was having a heart attack. And I had my, my coworker, he drove me to the emergency room in Burbank and I called my parents to say goodbye. And, and they,

I get in there and they hooked me up to an EKG and like, Oh, your T waves are flat. I'm like, Oh my God, my T waves are flat. I don't even know what a T wave is. And, I'm already dead. My T waves are flat. Exactly. How many know what a T wave is. And, uh, already dead. My T waves are flat. How many minutes do I have? And, uh, and yeah, then the doctor, I finally talked to him and I'm like, I'm like, what's going on with me? What is like, I'm like, my T waves are flat. What do I do? He's like, you just eat bananas. You're fine. Eat some bananas. Have something other than iced coffee and no sleep in a bag of chips and start managing some of this stuff a little better.

Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I was obviously the, you know, the for me anyway, the emotional roller coaster, the casting process. Like once you get that first call for me, it's all I could think about. For me, it's all I could think about. Like, definitely for me, I think anybody, I mean, I have yet to meet a person who wasn't mostly consumed during that time. Yes, exactly. And so I was, I was excited, but I was, of course, also anxious. And so, I mean, I did some crazy stuff. I bought it like a Jeff Probst dandy and basically like made my living room, the survivor

casting office, just to sort of like immerse myself into like what that would be like I printed up a photo of Lynn Spillman I put it on the wall so and I would like walk in the living room like oh this is me walking in the audition just to try to like recreate uh like what I expected that experience to be and actually it ended up being pretty similar yeah they are just kind of staring they are waiting in a living room right and then you just in a fake living room I don't know if it was in the same, I imagine our experience was very similar since we went through castings so close together, but at least for me, when I met Jeff and all that, they were literally sitting in like a living room type thing on the CBS lot.

And yeah. Oh, you did CBS lot. Mine was in the hotel, but yeah. Oh yeah oh yeah no we went to the lot to meet Jeff and Matt and whoever else was there at the time yeah yeah that's amazing yeah no uh I remember like meeting Lynn she was very like cold intentionally oh yeah and I'm like oh I just gotta I gotta make it past Lynn if I can make it past Lynn I can I can do. And I'm like, I, I felt I was bombing in the audition. And then, and then I, she was like flipping through this giant thick three ring binder. And I was just like, is that all about me? And, and then my casting associate was like, it should be. And, and then, and Lynn like cracked like a little smirk. I'm like, okay, that's something.

I got a little something. But then they didn't have me check into the hotel because I live locally. Wait, was the binder all about you? I missed, I missed the point. Oh no, it wasn't, it wasn't. But in my head it was. We're too much alike.

I'm like, wait, wait, did they have a binder about me? But I mean, she was flipping through it a lot. She was going page after page. So there were definitely many pages that were about me but i mean she was she was flipping through it a lot like she was going page after page so there were definitely many pages that were about me but uh yeah and then i didn't check into the hotel they didn't ask me to and i thought i'd bombed it other than that one moment and um and yeah just the just the anxiety the emotional roller coaster that casting experience because i i think i got the call in october and then the finals casting for me was end of February, beginning of February. And and then, yeah, we left next month in March. Yeah, that was all pretty much the same timing for me.

October and then January, February going to L.A. But I didn't leave to film until the end of May. So I must have. Yeah, because yours was worse, right? Cause you had, was it nine months? Mine was so shit. Yeah, I did. I did final. I got my first call in October. My finals was in February. Uh, I started, I filmed mostly in June, July of 2017. And then it didn't air until February of 2018. So so that is a long stretch yeah that's really bad except that's what it was the second time i played but like the second time i played was just polar

opposite in so many ways from the first time so i can't imagine like the first time you're playing you gotta wait nine months for that all to be revealed and i I'm sure you, you must've told people, some people what had happened before then, right? I was way too scared. Like, um, yeah, I was way too scared. No, I didn't tell anybody. I told nobody. I told, well, I told my parents and my brother, um, and Oh my God, just like getting when I would see that my casting director was calling on the phone. I mean, my heart rate must have gone to like, I don't know, whatever is right before you die. It's like so high. And the adrenaline of that and the fun of that. And then sometimes she would be calling

and just be like, Hey, what's up? What's going on today? What are you? What are you? What do you mean? What do you want? What are you calling me about? But it was a really fun, fun, but stressful time in a way. But I loved most of it, but it did cause me a great deal of anxiety. And I wasn't really focusing on a lot of the rest of my life. That was for sure all consuming. Totally. Yeah. It's all I could think about.

And I was like was like uh coming up with like like what's my strategy going to be i was 3d printing survivor puzzles to like memorize them in case they recurred and i even did that the second time and they did recur everybody's giving credit to these new kids you were doing this so long ago oh actually yeah you know you can barely i mean no one listening is going to see this but that i that was the cochran puzzle i printed on my 3d printer right there oh it looks so good it looks so good but uh yeah no um i remember the anxiety of like yeah you're talking about like phone calls where you're casting associate like when when it when three weeks would go by and you hadn't heard

it's like oh my god did i cut is that it know? And she always told me like, I'm going to be your worst, your worst boyfriend. I'm like, give it a try, but I'll be your worst boyfriend. You won't hear from me. You'll hear from me three times in a row. And then you won't hear from me for months at a time. And so it was always this, like there's air underneath you. Um, so you've started to have some anxiety stuff like it really bubbled to the surface in your first full panic attack in your mid-20s and then you play in your 40s so there's quite a bit of time in between there so you grow up on the east coast when do you end up on the west coast and start this whole writing career yeah so i um i graduated oh god it sounds so old now but i graduated in in 1996 different millennium uh and then i just got a hop to my car

and i i drove out here to la um and i uh got i moved in uh i, I career counselors, uh, at college, my career counselors, ex boyfriend, I moved into a house with him and there was another roommate as well. And yeah, I got a job as a production assistant, man about you, which is probably a show nobody remembers anymore. Do you? I've never, I feel like it's just like slipped away from, from any discussion, but yeah. Yeah. So I got a job there. It was the fifth season of the show. And, um, that was just eyeopening.

Like, wow. Like, um, and like, it was the first time my name was in the credits. I thought that was like the coolest thing, even though it was just a production assistant. I mean, I was just kidding. No, it's so, that's huge. That is humongous. Okay. Let's back up the truck a little bit because like getting to the point of your name is in the credits, like after you graduate undergrad, you're going, and then all

of a sudden you get a show and your name is in the credits. How long have you wanted to be working in TV? Like where did the desire to be in the entertainment industry start? It came like, like, and this is probably true. I, you know, as a kid, I think almost every kid probably wants to be an actor or if not an actor, like an athlete, an athlete was never an option for me. So yeah, I wanted to be an actor. And, and then through, I think it was, you know, middle school. And then in high school, I realized, Oh, actually writing is like, I want to do more strength. Anyway. And I was in this um in my english class class you could

uh there's a writing assignment creative writing assignment write whatever you want be a book could be a you know a short story it could be a script so i wrote a spec episode of cheers which was on at the time i think people still remember that and uh and i i just fell in love with writing yeah so then i'm like i i need to do this i got gotta you have to go to la it's where the majority of the jobs are for that so i knew very early fairly early that i would end up here and so yeah it was like graduate college is but you know the production assistant it's like not a it's not a glamorous job i loved that job loved having it was my entry level first job. But it was just getting coffee.

It was getting lunches and dinners for the writers. The hours were really long. I was working weekends too. I mean, I think I worked something like 28 days straight once, like through weekends. It was all about the work and it was very stressful. But anyway, yeah. Were you making friends at this time? Are you socially having... It sounds like you were you making friends at this time like are you socially having are you

just it sounds like you were working a lot but did you what was your social life like how were you settling into like being in LA in the 90s yeah well it's funny because I remember like pulling in to where I was going to live in that area, which is, it's West Hollywood, which now I look at it like, oh, it's great. But at the time, I just, I never liked cities when I was a kid. I was afraid of the cities. I just liked the suburbs. That's the only place I felt safe.

And so like a city just scared the crap out of me. And when I got to LA and it was just concrete and roads everywhere, and I was just like, oh, I really feel disconnected from like where I feel like safe and comfortable. But wait, I'm sorry. What was the question I lost? Oh my God. I'm so, I'm just so drawn into this. I'm imagining you, first of all, I do remember mad about you, of course. So I'm imagining you like coming, you're scared of the city. I can relate to that. I grew up on a chicken farm. I always wanted to go, you know, I moved into the city in Chicago, so I can relate

to that looking around and being like, oh my gosh, there are so many people I have so much to be afraid of, um, working all the time also. So I was curious about what you're, if you're getting along socially with your colleagues, if you feeling like settling in yeah because you're loving your job yeah like um I mean the job is great I made a lot of like connections with people there and there were all the people were great like that was a great experience um but also my best friend from high school his best friend from college um was doing graduate school at ucla and then boss that's the guy that would become my best friend and roommate um so uh i eventually moved in with boss so i i had a really tight uh friendship very early when i when i moved to la i was lucky that way uh and and boss had a friend there already

as well who introduced me to so yeah um i feel really lucky that I that I met him and yeah we lived together for two years uh in Westwood you know outside UCLA like I said he was going to graduate school um so I I felt um I felt like I had it was a small support group but it was a support group nonetheless and there were other people too I made friends with co-workers and we've socialized as well but but I still I still, you know, at that age, always felt like everybody had like figured out much better than I did. It's kind of why I like, I hated watching the show friends because they were sort of,

I guess they're older than me, but sort of peers. And I always felt like they seem like they know what they're doing much better than I do. I'd say watching the show, cause I just felt, it just made me think about how I didn't have anything worked out and figured out and I just felt lost. Yeah, it's it's interesting, this contrast that I think that I've noticed that in watching you and talking to you here of in comparison, it seems like you feel like you're looking ahead at people who have more and are more settled or get it or have it all figured out. And yet there are so many people listening, like so many people who are like, wait,

what the hell? Like, how do I want to be a writer? I mean, even me, I know you and I feel like being a writer in Hollywood is this completely intangible. To me, hearing about you and your job is writing in Hollywood feels like you watching friends being like, how do I create that life? It feels that enigmatic to me. And so everything is all about perspective, right? So funny. When you think about people listening who see your job and what you do as something that's unattainable, really. Like what is your advice to them?

Or what do you wish you would have known back then in the 90s when you were just starting out in LA? Well, I would say the biggest thing is like, don't be afraid to let people know that you want to be a writer. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Do the work, you know, obviously writing first and foremost. And, you know, get your two samples that are reflect your voice that only you can do. And they have to be original

pilots if we're talking TV and, uh, uh, and yeah, just like, you know, show your work and be ready to hear feedback that maybe doesn't match what you, how strong you thought the material was. You know, it, you're not going to write a great script out of the gate your script if you are then wait you are you don't need my advice but most people it takes a few scripts to really and more to really figure it out and um the thing is though i mean i you know i i know people that that are about to come out here and and try to carve a career path as writing, but I would say it's not a great career path these days right now. There are so many booming threats, and the business is still trying to figure out what

works as a business model. It had been working, but now the rules are shrinking. Sometimes, like a limited series series you might only get eight episodes and one person wrote it you know and so it back in the 90s you had like uh writer writing rooms that had like 20 people in them you know and and and 26 episodes and and and it wasn't limited there'd be hopefully go on to five seasons or more syndicated, all this stuff. Those days are gone and they're never coming back. And so, and then you got the threat. And by the way, I'll try not to spoil here, but you have the threat of AI.

You know, we got protections for that in our most recent contract with WGA. With those contracts only last three years. It's probably good that they only last three years because there's so many things that crop up that you need to revise your contract to protect your creators for those things, AI being one of them. But I just don't know how long we're going to be able to stave off

the threat of AI creating content that no human is great. I think it's probably closer than people realize. I hope not. But yeah, it's pretty easy for me to like spiral into like a paranoid place about AI. Yeah, I'm not a writer, but I get anxious about it. Like hearing the words,

it's sort of a thing that makes me feel anxious. And I'm like, okay, it's just, I imagine that people felt this way about the internet. The internet's going to take away all of our draw is going to, you know, back when that came up, right. That was probably a scary thing. So I'm just trying to roll with it. It's going to be okay. Right. Yeah. Well, it's not true, but I'm going to lie to myself in that way. That's my relationship with my anxiety is like, okay, if I'm going to be that creative about what terrible can happen, what can I do to be creative about how amazing it could get? And so every time I have a scary story that comes up in this moment where you're like, oh gosh, someone wants to be a writer and now there's AI and now there's no job. And then I'm like, well, what could that person do instead? They could decide to design a theme park that they've never had before. I just try to make up an anxiety story that is so big and beautiful and use my creativity that way. Because Martha

Beck says you can't be anxious and creative at the same time, which I think is a super cool thing that you have this career in creativity and in comparison with compassion towards your anxiety that it is literally impossible in your brain to be in creativity and in true anxiety, like in a panic attack at the same time. And so I find it coincidental or destined like destiny that someone who with you who has anxiety has chosen creative work as your path? Yeah. I mean, I, I think it makes sense for me because, um, like part of the thing that, that fuels and drives my anxiety is feeling like I'm not in control. And it's also why I have a huge fear of flying. You know, it's like, I don't like that I could take over the

plane if something happened, but I like being in control and, and so much of flying you know it's like i don't like that i could take over the plane if something happened but i like being in control and and so much of life you feel with with anxiety you feel like you're not in control but with writing you know you're you're creating the world you're creating the rules what happens and so that's i think probably i'm only realizing this now i think that's probably what drew me to it is like feeling like oh that's a way to manage and have exert some control over the world um when when you feel like you have not and where does reality tv like play in the in the on this scale i can't sort it like in the creativity creation of a world, being in control of it. And then real life outside of that, being anxious and feeling like we have no control.

Then there's this thing, I think that lands in the middle of being like on reality TV. I don't know. Well, I mean, survivors, there was never any other reality show pre-Survivor that I was like trying to get on or wanting to get on but um but Survivor like spoke to the um fear of

death person or aspect of my personality where uh you know Survivor I viewed it as a way like it's this fantasy to cheat death it's like like, you go into this thing, everyone's going to die except one person. I'm going to be the one person that lives. So I think that that's kind of what drew me to it. And yeah, it was just, I just, I just got the bug. It really like tapped into that. And that's why I fell in love with it. Like, Oh, and I, I fell in love with it so much and it, the only way to like love it more was to get inside it. And, and so, yeah,

that's yeah that's that's what led me there and and i didn't i didn't know that there'd be so many benefits from having played it and even losing it i think i think it's a rewarding experience whether you win or lose and maybe even more if you lose yeah i don't know I feel like that million dollars would have really. I feel like I would have liked that benefit. Oh yeah. You're right. It comes down to nothing essentially. So you get to go and do this thing again. What is the relationship with oneself? Well, I guess first, let me ask this. You talked openly in the show and you've referred to it here in this conversation that going and being on Survivor really did have an impactful change in your life. Is that true? You still relate to that? That still feels very real. Oh, for sure. You know, like, um, before, before I went on Survivor,

I felt like I was, um, almost like, yeah, putting on airs, playing a role, not, not just in trying to get a cast. I just mean in my life, like I was like trying to hide all my flaws and, and, and make it seem like I had everything together that was, you know, but then you go on Survivor and in a national television show and the audience, you're just laid bare. All your flaws are exposed. And there's no hiding them when that experience is over. It's out. The truth is out. You can't put the genie back in the bottle or the toothpaste back in the bottle or whatever. But yeah, I felt liberated that way to just own my flaws and my insecurities and not have the fear that people were going to run away from me then.

So that's the most rewarding thing about the experience for me is just feel like, oh, I can just be myself and take it or leave it. This is it. And I felt comfortable in my own skin finally. Don't get me wrong. Still have anxiety, still have the fear of death, but I'm living a better life through that experience than I would have otherwise. Yeah. It's incredible.

The like fear of fear of getting found out, like you're found out when you go and play survivor, it's like nothing you can do. You're just found out. Right. We all, all of us. I don't mean you. I mean, all of us. Yeah. We all just found out right we all all of us i don't mean you i mean all of us yeah we all get found out we find we get found out by seeing other people by being on tv

and with ourselves like meeting our true self i think there were moments where i was a little bit where i was sick towards the end and it's the middle of the night and you're like just shitting yourself and it's just like there's there's no this is like this is this is me this is who I am I knew I was getting voted out for the last three days and so it was just there are just moments where you meet yourself and people are watching you can't run from that anymore no no you can't and then in your case you gotta wait nine months for everybody to see it yeah thankfully they didn't show that part i got lucky um so then you get to go you have this huge life-changing like liberating experience i love that it was that such a

wonderful way of experiencing it and then what is it two or three years later you're going back out to do it all again yeah 2018 is when we produced uh season 38 um yeah and you know the first time was like this really truly magical experience like like almost like spiritual like i've said this before it was really true um like music sounded better after that experience and and that and it only sounded better for like two or three days and then but but it was like songs i'd heard a thousand times before sounded like i was hearing them for the first time like great song and um and like i just noticed like the rhythm of like the planets like orbiting well they're not they're orbiting the sun but you know going overhead and uh and just like the tides.

And I felt like connected to like kind of the world and the universe. I'd sound bonkers a little bit maybe for people, but, uh, but then the second time I go back out there and none of that was there. I didn't notice the planets. I didn't notice the tides. It was music. It was this, you you know i was numb to it like i was before and uh it was a strange again polar opposite and uh i partly like i just felt like there wasn't a lot new to grab out of that experience the second time or at least not like the profound stuff that there was the first time and you know probably in part that's because it's all

the same islands and i even started on the very same beach oh wow the first time yeah and then you know it was a hybrid season of newbies and and uh and returnees and the newbies were like well you you've been uh you've been before where should we put the campfire i'm like last time we put it right there so literally like the same hole so that'll work yeah it felt it felt like more of a business trip which a lot of people say like yeah the magic was a little gone yeah was it more physically uncomfortable and were you hungrier the second time that's what I always I'm I won't go and play again, but if I did, I would be like, I feel like I would be hungrier and like more uncomfortable the second time.

Huh? Hunger wise, uh, hunger wise it was probably about the same, might not even been as bad. Um, but it was, uh, I felt like, Oh, you know, this is going to be a much harder uphill battle than I thought. Because the history until 38, the history of hybrid seasons were that usually a returnee would. I felt pretty good about my chances, but very quickly, I'm like, oh, I don't think it's going to go away this time. You're like, wait, the new kids, they're a little smarter this time around, right? It's true. it's true it's true you know I think like in seasons past people

didn't have as much access to all the seasons and and really like wrap their head around what that game is but yeah by the time 38 came around everyone was uh had already graduated survivor they already I'm so thankful that I got to play at a time where I didn't know any of this. I mean, I had listened to like know-it-alls every week, which was like, you know, breaking down the show of the edit and like seeing what it was. But I didn't know what casting was going to be like. I didn't know that I was going to be locked in my hotel room during casting. Like I didn't know any of that stuff. I didn't even know that we stayed in tents like at Ponderosa beforehand.

So it was just this whole magical, all encompassing exposure for me. And I'm so thankful that it was. I think I got a little caught up in that. And so I didn't, I, I enjoyed the experience more than I like played survivor, but you know what? Like only one of us could win. So I'm glad I enjoyed the experience more than I like played survivor, but you know what? Like only one of us could win. So I'm glad I enjoyed the experience. Yeah. That's, that's kind of what I told myself too. It's like, look, you have to let yourself off the hook.

There is only going to be one winner and most people are going to be losers and that's all you're going to be one of them. And my, my biggest fear was just not being voted off first, which is how it felt the first time. It seemed like I was going to being voted off first, which is how it felt the first time. It seemed like I was going to be voted off first. And that was like, I'm like, I can't believe it. I worked so hard to get here and I'm going to go home after three days. And I feel for anybody that goes through that.

And I know you had Jacob on and those early boots. It's just, oh, that's awful. It's so brutal. I feel so lucky about, and that was my biggest fear too, was like, I just do not be the first one to go. Please don't be. And then both of us ended up doing well and getting lucky to like make it as far as we did

and to have that really, I forget, I apologize, but I forget how far did you make it a second as we did and to have that really i forget i apologize but i forget how far did you make it a second time like pretty far right uh well by today's standards it would be far because i mean it's a day i believe it was day 25 so that would be uh almost final travel now but uh but yeah i voted out day 25 and then you had the option to stay on the edge or home to stay for a chance to get back in the game. And then I think that challenge to get back in the game was on day 35 or 36 thereabouts. So I guess so I still kind of view it that I was inside the game, even though I was on that island, Expo Island or Edge of Extinction. But yeah, so it's 25 or 35 35 days depending on how you look at it i would

count it as 35 i mean you weren't you were in the game still in the game mindset still with the chance to go back in and all that yeah so yeah you had a big chunk of your time out there oh yeah yeah for sure yeah i mean uh oh god what an experience that was. But yeah, it was intense. Would you ever go back? Have you answered this at all ever? You know, I go back and forth, but I really, for a a discussion on human rights and politics in the sense that I felt like it was just not going well. I did not feel like the producers handled that well, even though it was a very real experience for the contestants and it's absolutely legitimate legitimate topics a thousand percent I was like no way am I going back in at this point in time

um and now just thankfully and I really truly mean that with so much gratitude like my time in the sun because season all season four like I got a couple callbacks there around the time of when you were going back. And I think that time for me has passed and I'm so thankful. I am so glad that I have zero feelings that I would get a call for like season 50. Unlike a lot of my good friends, like Dom Abate and a few people that it's still in the back of their mind. All I will say is I'm so thankful that I don't have to worry about it. Because if they did ask me, I'm not sure I would be able to say no. Right.

And I'm not sure it's worth it. I think I got everything out of Survivor that I would get out of Survivor. The first time I played, I got seventh place. I was there for 35 days. I got to be at Ponderosa. I got to be on the jury. Yeah. I didn't win, but I got the full, I got to do the live show. It's like, I feel like I had a full experience. And so I'm so thankful. I don't have to worry about pretending. Like I would say no. Um, I mean, are you in the anxiety space about season 50 coming up? I mean, are you in the anxiety space about season 50 coming up?

You know, a little like I don't even know if they'll ask me, but also kind of like you, like if they did. And, you know, it is hard to say no to one 20 shot or whatever at a million dollars. How often do you get those? Very, very rare. So and I don't know what the answer would be and and i know that if if they ask me and i say no and then i'm watching this season at home i know i'm gonna have fomo but that's whatever that's just unavoidable but i really don't know i'm not sure yeah i don't think i don't think you get the get out of jail free card like i do like i think i mean i hate to break it to you and i think there's a chance you're on the i mean there's for sure a chance you're on the top what the top 50 people of who they would ask i'm sure so well yeah i don't

know i mean like once i like really it's like because you know let's let's say there's 20 slots it's going to be 10 men 10 women so right there 10 aren't mine so then then it's like there's 20 slots. It's going to be 10 men, 10 women. So right there, 10 aren't mine. So then it's like, it's still crazy odd things. I don't know. Yeah. It's still very appealing to me. I enjoy this last season so much, 46. And you probably remember, or did you talk to David Jelinski?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it because his brother sat him at table several. He honestly had, he is the most memorable first boot in the entire history of the show. Getting referenced episodes in, like 10 episodes deep, he's still coming. I think he wasn't even mention in the finale but anyhow I think so yeah yeah I don't know where I was going with that but I know I just like I really there's

so many to choose from and I think is what you were going to is like for 50 it's like you can look at it one hand and it's like oh of course David Wright's at the top of the list and then you're like wait but even Jelinski and then, even when you just look at this most recent season or people in the forties, there's so many, there's plenty of people to just bring back for an amazing season from all new era of all post-season 40 people. So it is a shot in the dark, but it's yeah, it would be added anxiety for me if I thought I was in the running and I'm thankful I don't have to get on that emotional roller coaster. Yeah. Yeah. I hate flight. I know that's such a stupid reason not to do it, but I do hate that flight so much. And you're like, you already get to leave from L.A. Like it's already so much.

I had to take two flights to get to the flight because they didn't fly me straight direct from Indianapolis so I have to fly Indy to Phoenix and then Phoenix to LA and then do all that oh my god yeah yeah that's that's that's worse that's way worse yeah I can't afford a direct flight from there to there I'm not sure why but I was um I was so sure on the flight back after recording the season that the plane was going to crash and that they would still air the season but it would be like a little card at the beginning

like all these lives were lost but here they are celebrate the fun they had celebrate the fun they had starving themselves to death on their way out. Exactly. Exactly. It's the worst. And like, I don't like, I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but in my head, it makes it worse. It's being over just water for that long. Like I can't swim. Not that it probably matters, but yeah, it's, uh, it's just the darkness and anyway,

cause it's always a nice flight to get there. It does feel like you're flying over the abyss. It's like, they wouldn't even know if you died actually. So they wouldn't be able to put the sticker up on the, on the, no, of course not. No, it's awful. Oh, I'm sorry. It's that it's so light and refreshing though, that you talk about it because so many people can relate to the, I know I can't, I don't, I don't super stress about death, but I have certain other things. I have anxiety for sure. Here we go. Rapid round questions. How many times did you apply for survivor? So let's say technically three, because I did an open casting call at water water park which is so

perfect uh and then I did two videos at a year apart online at a water park yeah wait do they have like can you describe this for me because is there like a conference center there or were you in your swim trunks it It was crazy. No, I mean, I just wore regular clothes, but yeah, you're just, it's happened to be at a water park for, I don't know why. I don't know the actual reason, but, but yeah, you took a cattle call and it's, I think it must be some sort of like third party thing or people that they hire because I didn't recognize anybody from the driver casting process. Yeah. You're in this long line,

you're waiting hours in the sun and then you eventually it's your turn. And it's just a guy with a video. I mean, probably not now, but then it was a guy with a tiny little video guy. And, and yeah, you just, you just shoot a, you just talk for three minutes. It's kind of like what you would do at home, but yeah, you talk for three minutes and, and, and yeah, and then you're done. And, and yeah, I just, you just shoot a, you just talk for three minutes. It's kind of like what you would do at home, but yeah, you talk for three minutes and, and, and yeah, and then you're done. And yeah, I never heard anything.

Okay. So in both of your survivor bios, I think it said you chose OCD, nervous and paranoid as the three words that describe you. What are three words that you'd use to describe yourself today? Want to make any changes or still feels good? Those three. Honestly, it still feels good good except that i have them better check although you know you get me talking about ai and then it's gonna bubble to the surface but yeah no i mean i'm still yeah i uh especially like in my apartment just like

straightening things and you know uh I don't know you count stuff or like need things to be even numbers or it's more about like the space around you how does it show up more about the space around me um although there is some counting like I definitely you know more as a kid I would like want to count all the ceiling because that was the thing but uh but these days it's just kind of the space around me and just keeping everything ordered because like the space around me isn't ordered then like my mind is like it's just chaos and i can't concentrate yeah how did you do that on the beach did you were you keeping your things organized in your bag or no i mean there's barely anything that's i mean that's the other thing too it's like that experience driver like um it is as hard as it

is and it is hard there's also kind of a vacation aspect and that the only thing you have to think about is the game like in like there's so much more things to think about you know like plates to spin and you know but but out there it's just the game so it's kind of nice it's like okay everything's off my plate it's just this one thing you can focus i kind there it's just the game. So it's kind of nice. It's like, okay, everything's off my plate. It's just this one thing you can focus. I kind of, in a way, the game itself sort of like helps with the OCD because it's all, it's just that one thing. Yeah. I, I did know, I remember before I left working with a therapist, working with a meditation person, you know, having my mantras, trying to figure out how I was going

to manage my anxiety. I'd had some like physical stuff where I'd like passed out on the train because of just like pretty, some pretty physical symptoms around anxiety. And it was, I mean, other than we talked about on the beach and we landed there and it was overwhelming, like pretty soon within the first week, I would say that was most, almost the least anxious I've been for 30 days for a month of my life. So did you said you have said that for you, do you agree that some of these anxious and OCD tendencies for some reason can kind of melt away out there? Yeah, they can. And you know, the, the other thing is that like, I, yeah, I think I told you, I don't know if it made this or not, but, uh, um, like recording

makes me nervous, like things being recorded. And I just felt like out there, you know, you can watch at the time when I played a 39 day survivor game in like 15 hours or something like that. So many more hours than 15 hours and 39 days. So I just would tell myself that, yeah, this is all being recorded, but most of it's going to get thrown away. It won't until those moments would happen where it's like, oh no, this is actually definitely going to be an episode where you have to get in your head a little bit and then all that stuff returns. But yeah, it was easier thinking that oh this is just gonna get tossed you know nothing to worry about what was from like the moment you stood in line at that water park to today

what was the hardest part of the survivor experience and what was the best part i would say um being uh maybe yeah being away from out there being away from friends and family like away from your support group and the things happening that are so cool that you just all you want to do is like all your friends and your family tell them about it um the emotional roller coaster at the beginning of the casting process not knowing if you're going to get cast not and then also that long show yeah just like oh no not this like this is the part that's at the end um i know you want them to bring it back but as a player if i ever were to play again i don't want to come back what was the best moment just um like accepting myself accepting my flaws you

know feeling liberated that way just be myself and definitely that was the best part that's like a lifelong change which uh yeah I really appreciate yeah and choose to and chose to take with you yeah and and I know this is a cliche but um you know just learning to love yourself and it allows you then to love others and I just got engaged I just I know I have a fiance now. I like, by the way, we were talking about this. Does she, is she no longer my girlfriend and she's my fiance or is she both? I don't know how that works, what the rules are. I think she can be both if you want, whatever, whatever you, the two of you and whatever, most importantly, she feels most comfortable with. Right. Yes.

Yes. It's just so weird saying I have a fiance though. It's like, it's very, it's still very new to me. It's only been a couple of weeks. Right. It was just, you would just post, I was looking at your Instagram stalking. First of all, everyone go to what is the real Dave, right? Real Dave, right.

Which I hate that handle. I, I, I put, I made that handle well before I was ever on TV and, and there's just so many David Wrights and whatever. Anyway, there are plenty of real David Wrights. I think it's perfect. I figured you made it after the show of being like, this is me. I'm the, this is the real survivor Dave Wright. I loved it. Also,

I think I've been going back and forth between calling you Dave and David. I should have totally asked you at the top, which do you prefer? I go by David. Okay. Yeah, David. But I don't know why. I think real David, right, must have been taken or something. I'm not sure why I did that.

But yeah, I go by David. But you can call me anything. I don't care. I think one of the things that gave me anxiety is my parents would come by my middle name, which is David. And then in school, like when the teachers would be taking attendance, John, I'm like, ugh. Like, why didn't they just call me John or call me David and make it my first name? Because I didn't want to like correct anybody.

I hate correcting people. And I met when I was a math in the middle. I remember now this is triggering a flashback that there's this one crew member who would often confuse me with a coworker of mine who shared an office and his name was Bill. I don't want to say his name, but anyway, she called him hoops. And anytime I would go on the set, she would see me thinking I was him and call me hoops. And this one for like, I wouldn't correct her. This went on for like six months. And then finally someone was like,

why are you calling him hoops? That's David. And she's like, what? And then, and then I felt bad. Cause I, she'd say, Hey hoops, how you doing? I'm like, Oh, Hey, how you doing? I don't want to inconvenience anybody until now. I just accidentally did six months later. Now it makes it way worse that you just went along with this lie for six months oh goodness um other than we we started to talk about this a little bit earlier

uh other than survivor what's your favorite reality tv show there's so many um but right now probably traitors like i said i just love that it can't be fun of it and the castle and Alan coming I just think that it's a lot of fun it's really fun to watch I did I am one of those people that got sucked into Vanderpump Rules the last couple seasons I don't know if you're one of them or not

I haven't seen it no I don't oh my god it I mean not almost an expert now I've gone back like with my my fiance and watched past seasons but um and I love jury duty that that reality show um and uh it's really just I don't know if you remember Joe Schmo it's basically just Joe Schmo but it's jury duty um did you watch Joe Schmo no I don't sorry you lost me i don't know joe schmoe and you mean jury duty like the one where the guy doesn't know he's on reality tv yes and that is insane that's also the premise

of joe schmoe which is basically like almost like um like a bachelor type uh reality show not exactly but anyway um but yeah where there's only one guy who's real and he but and he doesn't know he's the only real guy. And actually Kristen Wiig, I think, was in the second season. This is like 20 years ago or more. Actually, probably like 25 years ago or something. Oh, so she wasn't famous enough that it would give away the gig. Oh, yeah.

No one knew her. This is well before SNL, years before. But anyway, yeah, it was a great show, especially that first season. Yeah. Oh, I don't think I've heard of it. But watching the the jury duty, watching that show was I felt like a bit triggering for me in a way. I can understand that. Yeah. Because you relate or you just understand that somebody else might feel that way? No, just that you feel so out of control where things are happening to you rather than you're creating them.

And then obviously in a show like Dirty Duty, it's all happening to the guy. And they really lucked out with him because he ended up being I'm not he was they were looking for a good guy but you know rooting for him and he was very likable and he made like some the right like kind of quote-unquote moral choices you're rooting for me even more of it but yeah I get it like not being in control you're doing that in control control where like everyone around you is basically an actor well yeah yeah yeah everyone was um it made me I had a similar feeling when I went back

to Fiji for vacation and like rode like did a boat tour around the islands where we film in Fiji. And like when I realized then how close everything was, like literally like I did a hike up from the resort I was staying in and I could see the beaches that we played on from there. It just happened to be like the beaches in a certain way where you, we couldn't see the resort, but the resort could see where we were on the island more or less and I remember feeling like wait what they like really drove us around in those boats underground for so many hours this is before I even knew we could like google or reddit to see like where it was filming you know so I didn't know until I went back on vacation that it was all made up. Were you, uh, were you on, were you staying on Mana? Yes. I'm sorry. I did stay on Mana Island then like on a, like a hostel hotel kind of place, which is actually so fun and so affordable. And if people

are going to Fiji, you should stay there. It's a blast. And it's right down where like we went and walked, I'm sure we shouldn't have, but we went and walked like to where they film all of that stuff there were gates but i thought they were suggestion suggestion of gates don't do that while they're actually filming they were not actually filming otherwise they wouldn't have well you may you may never may not but like um adam and i um like a local fisherman to take us to monariki which no one lives on monariki, uninhabited Island. And, uh, and that's, that's, that's when I was like, okay, I might need to like put a pin in the survivor stuff because I, you know, I buried a fake idol out there. And, and, and as I was doing it,

like Adam's just like walking the beach, recording videos. And as I'm like burying this idol, I'm like, what am I doing? There must be something else in my life other than this. Oh, in preparation for thinking that you might get to go back yeah and then I did get called back six months later but I still there and dig it because I'm like it's such a stupid idea they're not gonna let you use that uh I don't know why I wasted my time but um yeah it's still buried there I know I could find it right now if you put me on that island unless the rain washed it away somehow. You know where it was though.

Oh, it's yeah. Yeah, I know where it is right now. That our brains do. Would we go play Survivor, right? It's true. It's true. Yeah, in that weird game mode. Yeah, but the islands are actually very close to each other.

Just for the record. I didn't know that when I played. Yeah. actually very close to each other just for the record. I didn't know that when I played. Um, do you have, I, do you have a favorite place in the world that listeners could visit? Where do you recommend people travel to? Well, you see my favorite place in the world probably is media, Pennsylvania, where I grew up and it's, it's known as everybody's hometown, but I don't know that anybody else would appreciate it that way unless they're from there and you know but just that's that it makes that's where i feel like home just like the trees and the weather and just the stores and all that but um so i guess i wouldn't recommend

anybody paying uh for a flight there and like from there but but i really I lived in London for a semester uh in college that was just fantastic I'd love that so but get to London if you can yeah is it media like the media m e how do you spell it yeah m e d i a yeah like media like the media yeah oh look at you television you were just destined to be on television. It's great that there's this little like kind of town, you know, like little like village. And there's all these like independent shops, probably a couple of chains up here. But it just feels like like Norman Rockwell a little bit. Are you a big reader? Do you have a book that you would recommend?

I'm embarrassed to say I am not well-read. I admit it. There's no faking it. But I, not that I haven't read anything. You've never read a book one time in your whole life. No, I have. And actually, it's funny. Have you heard of Harry Potter?

I'm actually about to start that series. My fiance got me like the movies, like we watched, we just finished watching every Harry Potter movie. And now, now I'm like this, I don't know if it's a hot take or not about Harry Potter. Like, I think the whole thing takes place in his head. But, but yeah, now I'm going to, now I want to start the books. And, but, but as far as like stuff that I have read, I like, like a big influence and

like sort of author that pushed me i think someone into writing was like ed ground but like the short stories of ed ground poe so not a book per se but like his his works uh short stories like although all the all the greats telltale heart asking monciano he had a black cat that i've caught all of the house of usher um that the story i just don't know they're just so well constructed and and he's he packed a lot into very little so but i'm sure people listening have heard edgar alton pope before and they've probably already read it okay oopsies david and i kind of got carried away again um it happened a few times here but i just cut out some blabbering on about i got nervous

talking about Steinbeck. I couldn't think of the name of the novel I read, which was East of Eden. Um, but in the midst of all of us going through it, he brought up how he liked Stephen King as well, which in some ways I love 11, 22, 63. It's a great book. In some ways I don't like so much because I saw The Shining at too young of an age. Here's where we continued on with the horror topic of Stephen King, which ties into some pretty important themes in David's life, which he goes into. Even if he liked his books and stuff, like the adaptations of his

material. I mean, The Shining is one of the greatest horror films ever made and uh and then the stand by me and shawshank redemption there's so many and misery anyway all good stuff talk about oh i saw the shining too young that's why i don't like horror movies because that ruined our movies that was how i proposed to my girlfriend it was uh it was like the coolest thing yeah no we love horror movies like every friday we're watching a horror movie how can you do that with your anxiety no wonder you worry about being about death all the time that's why i can't like even a scary commercial comes on my tv i have to go like this like i can't see it otherwise it will haunt me a scary commercial for a movie will haunt me i am not lying for two to three months if i actually see one you should definitely avoid

them no I think for me I find it sort of cathartic you know it's sort of like letting out the the steam that the pressure of uh yeah but yeah I mean there's so many great slasher movies not the shining's not a slasher but uh yeah if you like Harvey's and you react you should play with but all costs yeah no I can't i i can't do you get scared watching them oh sure yeah oh my god um yeah especially the i'm scared i mean that's like such a cheap trick in horror movies but absolutely like i'm it's take a lot to get you know huh i that is the most shocking thing of all the things I've learned about you today horror movies just really really is surprising you know it's actually like one of the reasons is um it's it really is like the most I think

progressive genre that there is like going back to like the 70s you know there's this idea of final girl and it's like you know and especially in a slasher movie where there's only one woman left alive at the end and it's like yeah they were the they were the badasses in the sense going and forward of like being in this situation and fighting their way out of it and surviving and overcoming and in a way that like a lot of other films it was always like hero was a was a man especially like an action film or whatever it's a man like women are the are the real heroes of our genre and that's actually how i proposed to my girlfriend i was gonna say wait

i just looked on your instagram and there was a final girl poster right so tell me how this all ties in yeah so like yeah because like you know, every Friday we're watching like a horror movie and oftentimes it's a slasher. And this past summer we watched the entire Scream franchise and she really liked that one a lot, mostly for Sidney Prescott is the lead of that, you know, Neff Campbell. And she's a final girl who needs no outside intervention whatsoever. She overcomes strictly with her own wits. And, and, and like, so that, that's very appealing to her.

And, and I just like, I want, I knew when I was going to propose, but I was going to build it around horror movies. I thought, oh, it's perfect to build a proposal around this idea of final girl. And so, yeah, I got David, I got a cameo from him to, uh, and he's like enlisting, um, my girlfriend to help find ghostface. Who's back. And you gotta help, you gotta find him before he strikes again.

And, uh, he left a clue. And the, and the question is, uh, or a riddle really is like, what, what would you call the last surviving female in a slasher film? Final girl. And then we're in Solvang and she spots the final girl winery. And, uh, and we go in there and there's a ghost face mask. And I had hidden the ring under there. And yeah, she finds ghost face. I pull out the ring. I want you to be my final girl. Anyway.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The collective of everyone listening. Oh, it's so sweet and so thought out. Yeah, yeah. How did your fiance feel about it? Oh, she loved it. Yeah, it was great. And she kind of saw it coming, especially, I mean,

once you get a freaking cameo on your phone, you're like, well, this is weird. But I just, you know, it was an important piece of the puzzle. Yeah, it went great. And then we sat there. And on the Final Girl winery, the tasting room, it was an important piece of the puzzle. Yeah, it went great. And then we sat there. And on the Final Girl winery, the tasting room, it's in Solvang. There's a place people should visit.

It's a really cool space. If you like horror movies and you like wine, and it's decorated with all these different nods to like classic horror films of the past. And it's such a nice little environment there. Oh, super cool. I mean, I might go for the wine, but not for the horror, but there are lots of people who, who will, um, do you listen to POG? Are you a podcast guy? I am. I am. Um, I love podcasts. Uh, my favorite one is, um, uh, daily beans. That's, um, that's like a

political podcast. People probably don't want to waste their time with that if they don't want to go into that, that neck of the woods. And, woods and uh but but as far as like fun podcasts like um and then like an episode in particular do you ever listen to reply all i have listened to early on i did yeah so like a classic one for me i don't know if you ever remember this one i and i i knew you're gonna ask this so i it's it's episode number 158 and it's called the missing hit and it's about this guy who like he just remembers this like hit song in his head and he's like telling people like what song is this what song is this and like what are you talking about and he like is able to like remember all the lyrics in his head and and he and he he's become so obsessed that he hires a band to recreate the song like note for note, chord for chord.

And they record it and then they're eventually able. Well, I don't want to ruin it. Listen to the plot. Listen to that one. Oh, that was a great lead up. I mean, what do we have here? A writer of a story? Somebody who knows how to set up the plot, right?

Right. Cool. I will definitely check that out it's my i mean it's great when people bring suggestions for like podcasts overall but the like single episode rec is it's just so you know i'm able to do that i'm able it's hard for me to get a whole nother podcast into the rotation but when it's a single episode recommendation i always plug plug it in. So yeah. Oh, one more actually, if I can, there's another one I really like not in a single episode, but, um, Dana Carvey and David Spade's podcast fly on the wall. I, I love that so much. If you're an SNL fan at all, it's, it's so great. Awesome. Those are great suggestions. And I'm excited about the daily. I mean, I, I kind of frantically listen to politics podcasts, which do not bring a sense of calm. So she does. Seriously, like, listen to this one, because like, she's just so on top of everything. And there's doesn't have time for BS. And it's a hopeful. It's a hopeful podcast. And halfway through it switches to good news and and just it's all this positive stuff about people like rescuing dogs and cats yeah it's really great

um so I usually listen to it on my run in the morning it just it puts me in a good mindset for the rest of the day were you a runner before survivor all this spartan running stuff came after no no I I well it's funny. Uh, I was, I can't believe we didn't talk about this, but I was in, uh, in, in high school, they put me in a special gym class for the physically unfit called intervention. And it was this state program with like, Oh, if you failed two or more, uh, presidential fitness exams, they put you in this special gym class. So it was like me and like a couple other kids. And yeah, I failed the mile back then. And I failed the stretch test. I can't

touch my toes. And yeah, they put me in this class and I used to throw up when I would run the mile. And in fact, I remember my gym teacher, he was like, he's like, Dave, I want you to, he's like, I want you to run with the regular kids. I'm like, I can't, Mr. Duran. I'll throw up. I'll throw up. Come on, come on. And I did. And I threw up honeycombs out my nose. But later on, as I got into my 20s, I became really interested in running. And I ran the LA Marathon in 2007. I would lie to you about my time, but I think it's a matter of public record. People people could probably Google it and find my terrible times. Like I was over six hours. It's so slow, but yeah, I love running and it really helps. Again, that's another thing that like helps you to stay calm. Yeah. Mental health management of the whole thing. So, oh, that's, oh,

why did they make children do that? Why were they doing that? That's so, so, I mean, I guess it's all fine, right? Maybe you're glad you did. Cause here you are running anyway, but calling it the program and then making you do it, even though you're going to throw up. Yeah. Well, and I never got out of that program. I was in it for, I think a full year is my senior year. And yeah, and in middle school, they put me in a special swim class because I couldn't swim. And for me, for the group, tiny group of kids I was in, the goal of that class was to retrieve a black rubber brick from the bottom of the deep end. And I never got that brick. It stayed. It's still there. It's still there waiting on you. But you've won a survivor challenge. Not from swim. Well, I mean, I did. There was like one water challenge.

I, you know chris hammonds was doing all the heavy literally doing all the heavy things that one yeah so you're gonna give him you're gonna give him the credit well did you ever get an individual immunity uh yeah twice yeah not that i'm counting you're right no you're right i did win uh individual media but one was a balancing uh competition and then what was the other one? Oh yeah. The other one was like multifaceted, but there was a puzzle at the end. I mean, come on, these people putting you in the intervention program and then look at you now. Right. Yeah. Well, that's the funny thing. I'm in way better shape now than I ever was when you're supposed to be at your fittest. But yeah, I don't, I just,

I don't know. I just, I would throw up whenever I, I don't know what I was doing wrong, but. Was it just stress? Like, do you think it was anxiety or stress? Probably was. It probably was. Yeah. I don't think I realized. I mean, it's just, there's such a lesson in that of thinking about A, things can change b you don't have to be defined by what other people or like quote-unquote standards that people have like see time and timelines like do not have to be followed like yeah so you so there are kids who were like throwing up running the mile and then you can win survivor challenges on national tv and run a marathon and go do all these Spartan races and like accidentally show up to the brownie class. And then also be the person who puts together this

amazing thought out proposal. It's just, we don't everyone. And I think you harkens back to what you said about being found out and then you're on Survivor as you and then it's like wait a second I was all you were found out as is that you're not doing the script that's made up anyway for life right yeah no that's it I honestly like it was the best I don't regret the experience at all. It was truly the most rewarding experience. And I probably would not be saying that if I got voted out first, but you didn't, you know, you didn't, you didn't. Yeah. I don't know. It's just so it's inspiring to me. It makes me, it literally makes me have the feeling and the thought right now of like, what do I feel like I can't do? or what have I been told that I can't do

yeah that I still want to do and it's not too late and I should just try it like definitely inspiring to hear your story in this moment no that's cool no I think I like that too I mean I like challenging myself and this is probably me talking to you probably doesn't feel like a challenge to most people but I really do not enjoy doing podcasts I like listening to podcasts I don't like answering questions so this is like a bit of a challenge for me so yeah I try to like push myself to do stuff like that even though I mean there are much harder things than doing a podcast obviously but yeah like this is all relative right yeah totally it's all what you're comfortable with and I like I like pushing myself to live a little more uncomfortably so that like it is rewarding once you do it

yeah that's life i guess i'm always here asking people for fun music recommendations because i listen to the same three albums oh wait what three albums are roughly what is brandy carlisle lake street dive um and i guess the next one would be taylor swift yeah oh taylor swift to me we went to uh we saw her in la so far incredible show then we went to the movies saw the movie wore the brace i mean amazing experience so uh yeah so right now i love taylor swift midnight this is my hot take on her i think midnights's is her best. I don't think a lot of people think that, but I love Midnight. But right now, the song that is like

playing almost nonstop and the music video too, it's a great music video is, and I'm very late to the party here, Chapel Roan's Pink Pony Club. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that song. Oh, fun.

It's a really, really fun one. So last, but certainly not least, I, you still, you have a, first of all, beautifully curated Instagram profile. If you want to see like gorgeous photos of David's life and his beautiful fiance, go check him out at least on Instagram at real Dave Wright, WRIGHT. It's really fun content. Like I want I want to live in your life. it's really fun content. Like I want to live in your life. Well, I mean, thanks.

Thank you for saying that's very nice. And yeah, I mean, I try not to put too many photos up of our cats, but if no one would make fun of me, it'd probably be a picture of our cats every day. Oh, you should put your cats up every day. People like cat content. I know the other day was international cat day and I didn't do anything for it.

So I think they're mad at me. They know. How many cats do you have? Two. Two cats. The little white cats? Yeah. And they're, they're both deaf, which is good because, um, uh, anytime they do something

cute, uh, my girlfriend screams cause she can't believe it. And they don't flinch or react or anything. They're fine with it. You can vacuum next to them. They don't care. Are they old to deafinch or react or anything they're fine with it you can vacuum next to them they don't care are they old to death or they just were there happened to be deaf they're uh genetically they're born deaf yeah um it's it's common i i don't even know exactly why but in white cats um and especially i think male white cats especially if they have two different colored eyes which one of them does um they usually it's a sign that they're deaf and but yeah i love them so much i would take older are they how long have you had oh yeah so well

laura had the first had niles before me so he's like eight um but then together this year january 1st actually we got um jonesy who's named after this oh this is all coming back full circle jonesy is named after the cat in alien um even though he looks nothing like him but uh yeah slasher film sci-fi slasher uh but yeah so he's i think he's going to be one next month oh they're cute i i am allergic to cats and i'm sort of scared of them but i like still internet cat content so i think they're so fascinating and so cool. I relate to them as well. If I have an animal that is like, I would identify where they would be a cat, like their personalities, they're like, leave me alone. I know. But for this guy who, who puts off this, who says you

have this leave me alone, uh, desire, which I'm going to leave you alone here soon. It's just so damn easy to talk with you and want to learn from you and hear about your life and to feel like I can be myself. And you just create this amazing space. And it's just really, really cool to be with you here, even though I know you were a bit hesitant, but I have had an absolute blast talking with you today. Me too. I honestly, thank you for even like wanting to have me. And I, I don't last like this chat has been so enjoyable and a lot of fun. Good. I'm glad it wasn't as torturous as maybe your anxiety part of you said it might be. So, well, it's, it's nice that like, you know,

sometimes in these, these like driver type podcasts, and this isn't really, and this is like a Jason and best way, like you're not asking me, why did you vote for Sunderland? Cause I hate that question. Yeah. I hate this. I, you know, I don't know what kind of survivor fan I am, but I wouldn't even remember. And I literally just rewatched your season since we saw each other in April and I still was like wait can you remind me how long did you make it like I am not very good at retaining those things um it's because I've always loved Survivor for people's stories and who they are and curious about what their life was like before and so I am so thankful that I got to like the girl who watched you in Survivor 33 as a fan. Getting my first call from casting is so thankful and so geeked out. And I'm just so excited that you did this with me today.

Thank you. Oh, that's cool. Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun. OK, I love, love, loved, loved talking with David. Ever since he happened to be in Tahoe while I was there, between when I filmed my show and when I aired, I was so lucky to have him as a listening ear.

It's like a soft, welcoming voice from the other side. Like, I know he has this way of talking about his paranoia and his anxiety. But every time I've been around David, he has been such a calming, kind, welcoming voice in the survivor world. I can remember being at my first party in LA. And thank God he was there because I felt like a total nerd outcast. And he just talked with me, made me feel like I was a part of the the group and really made my time at that party in LA so much more comfortable and gave me so much self-confidence. I wonder how much David knows that he really helps a lot of people feel like they belong. A couple of quick side notes here. I listened to Friday's episode of

the Daily Beans podcast. And David wasn't joking that the good news portion at the end, it'll get you. I cried. It was good. Consider giving him a listen. And a second side note, thanks to all of you who sent me messages after listening the last couple of weeks.

It's been so great to hear from you. I even heard from a contestant from one of my favorite baking shows. I could not believe that they were listening and took the time to reach out and say they love the podcast. All this to say, if David Wright can play chess with Magnus Carlsen, both David Wright and I, Kellen Bechtold, can play Survivor and win individual immunities. can play survivor and win individual immunities. And if one of my favorite baking show contestants actually listens and loves my podcast, Road to Reality, all of your dreams can come true too.

Like, what are you waiting for? I will see you next week. Do not miss the final episode of the season. I'm dropping the name now because it's worth all of the buildup. We will be talking with the one, the only, the creator and the king of this whole thing, Rob Sesternino. See you then.

I'd like to thank Rob Sesternino and the entire RHAP team for their support in making this podcast. Jessica Sterling is the editor. Tricky Rice created the artwork. To all of my fellow survivors, thank you for showing up for free to give me and all the listeners a look into your lives that we wouldn't otherwise get to see.

And much gratitude to all of you listening. If you'd like to connect, and only if you're kind, you can find me on social media at thekellenb or at kellenbechtel.com, where I, as a holistic career coach, try to give away as many free resources as I can to help people find more happiness and success in their career journeys. May each of your realities lead down a road of peace, joy, and a whole lot of adventure. And now, here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

Her name is Mira from Manhattan. Her name is Chelsea from Chelsea. Her name is Krista from Columbus. It doesn't matter much to me Now she's staring out the window She's turning on the night She takes a pen to her new novel And the airplane takes flight. Mmm, I never knew.

Mmm, I never knew. Mmm, I never knew. Mmm, I never knew I never knew You Now we're flying out to Dublin Just to stop along the trail Mira hops from there to Paris I ride to Belfast on the rail Now she's cheering in the winery I'm staring at the sea Her name is Mira from Manhattan It doesn't matter much to me Mmm, I never knew

Mmm, I never knew Mmm, I never knew Mmm, I never knew I never knew You You Thank you.