RHAP: We Know Survivor - Shane Powers Talks Survivor 49 Ep 7

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

This week, Rob and Shane Powers sit down to talk about Survivor 49 episode 7.

All right, everybody, buckle up. We got a good one here today because today on the old school interview, we are talking with the one and only Shane Powers. Shane, how are you? God, I missed that bell. Yes. I missed that bell. I should have that bell in my life.

I should just have that's amazing. Yeah, Sam, is there a, you have a branded one in R-H-A-P? We don't. We don't have a branded bell, but I can definitely. I'll get my own bell unless there's a brand. We got to figure out, like, if you can connect us with a bell of, like, somebody like, I need like somebody who's like a metal worker. A bell maker.

A bellmaker. Yes. By the way, in the 17, 1800s, if you were a bellmaker, I got to believe you were, you were, you were, you were a, you were a, you were a, you were a, that's a craftsman thing, right? Middle ages, making bells. You probably needed all sorts of things for like the town crier and all sorts. of things. Why do you not have a branded R.H.A.P. Bell. These people would go. Yeah, that's a good idea. Like, well, let me talk. Seven bucks. It cost you 90 cents to make it. About a dollar 10.

Let me talk to some people and see if we can figure out how to get that going because it's a bad. And this is why Shane Powers is what is your official title, a co-founder of? I am, yeah. Well, I mean, I, yeah, my title is insane life, the best life of all time. But Currently, it is co-founder of Joling Coffee, which has been a seven-year labor of love. It's been amazing. Yes, a savvy businessman, and that is how he can come up with branded RHAP bells, just like that. By the way, you should just give them away to the Patreon people. The guys that sign up, you get your bell, you get the ting, it'll be a thing.

They'll bring them to the, they'll bring them to the. Oh, well, that would be bad for audio. You wouldn't want that, but, you know. Well, no, you just say, hey, bring them to the thing. We're going to do a little group RHAP thing. Yeah, maybe like a basketball team could do that Like the guy who's gonna take the foul shots Like everybody's just like ringing the bell right behind him

Like that could be like The Bob Cousy of R-A-T bells Yeah You could have a contest Who can ring the bell the most times? Yeah, who can go to like the masters And like ring the bell like a Bapa Bowie? How was Wednesday in San Francisco?

It's so crazy It was crazy You put this shit on the road It was crazy And we didn't even need you to come in And yell at the audience That's how good it was And we had the biggest crowd we ever had.

We had over 1,000 people in San Francisco. And so it was a really great night and everybody, good vibes. It was very, very fun. Can I tell you something? Please. I saw something about it like a couple days before it was going on. And there was like a half a brain for me to jump on a plane and go and surprise you. Yeah.

But then I was like, no, because he's not going to give me the reception I deserve and I'm going to be mad at him. So that's how I didn't do that. What kind of reception? What happens if I just show up and surprise you? I would love it. I would love it. Would you be thrilled? Would you bring me on? Would you just say, hey, there's this fucking guy. I would be thrilled. What kind of reception would you want? What would be the right way to receive you? Rousing.

The crowd would go nuts like when it's the Royal Rumble and now here comes somebody that you didn't even expect to come out. All right. So I give you my word. At one of these events, I'm going to just show up unannounced. Yeah. And the crowd will rouse. You will give me my just due. It's so nice. You know, you didn't have me on for many years.

And I think it's because, I mean, I. Was that my choice? I think it was your choice. Yeah. You sure about that? There was a, well, I don't know if it's your choice or somebody in your sphere. Wait, wait, it depends when. What are you talking about?

You're talking about it? You're talking about it in the old days. No, like in the last few years. Yeah. Yeah. I've been a persona non grata, right? I wouldn't say persona. a non grata. I would say that there was

a point where I think that there would be I would be a little worried about like what is going to be the audience reaction and I'm saying you know what, let's talk to Shane.

You think the audience would have been upset that I would have been on? I think that there would be elements in the audience that would say, Rob, what are you doing? That Shane's takes, we don't agree with 100% of what he's saying. Why would you talk to him?

See, I think it had. I know when it happened, but you're not going to admit it one way or the other. But I had an insane hour-long rant about Jeff like four years ago. And then that's when you just stopped calling me. You were like, I didn't hear from you. And then I was like, no, this guy is somebody. pulling the string on him. Was it on the podcast or on social media? You had a rant about Jeff. It was on, it was, it was on, I did a pod and then I got into it and then I got it was,

you know what it was was, it was Lynn and the way that they handled letting go of Lynn and I was upset. Yes, you love Lynn Spillman and listen, I hear what you're saying. I think that that Lynn's casting choices, I think that she had a point of you. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop it. I know. Stop it. Stop it. We can't even get into this. We can't start talking about casting and, like, new, I mean, unless, I mean, unless you, how about this? I would like to. We don't have to go there right now. Okay, great. What do we, what are you guys? Can I go circle back to what if you showed up at the live show because I really, I would love it if you showed up at the live show because I would, I'm going to show up at a live show, but I want to do it unannounced because I, here's the deal.

And I really, everybody knows this. good, bad, or indifferent, you are, for me, an example of working your ass off, believing in your vision, not, I'll give you some flowers, I mean, giving them to you. Yeah. Because I did not, I mean, dude, 15, 20 years ago, I was like, I remember I, like, the first time I ever went on, I was, like, abusive and 34 and mean, and I'm like, this idiot. And you were ahead of the game by like a decade. And then when you, you know, you have really built yourself into something.

And then I think about 10, 12 years ago, I remember just thinking, this guy has really proven himself, A to himself, but B to me. And you've done, it's fucking unbelievable what you've done. Well, thank you. It's crazy. Yeah, I was going to tell you that that time when it was the 10-year anniversary of Rob's a podcast and you came to, and we like talked about this moment when it was, the 15 year anniversary earlier this year. We did 15 moments of lore. And this was one of the

greatest moments. And we even played it on the podcast when you came up on the stage and everybody was talking. I made the top 15 moments? Yeah. It was an all time moment for me when you came on. And you gave me such a testimonial in front of everybody and told all the reality stars to shut the F up. And it was just an all time great moment. Well, I love that. It's one of the highlights of my career. And you deserve that. You've deserved that. You've deserved everything. that you've got coming. And, you know, I was always very, like, took you, I was always took you kind of silly and it was like not hard on you, but was like a prick. And then I read, I just, I'll never forget. It was that 10 year anniversary. I was like, Jesus Christ, this guy has

really, really built something. You came up and you talked, you told them to all shut up and he's like giving you a platform to come on and you could at least let him talk. And you said, I'm paraphrasing what you said that this guy is an example of what happened. when every day, one, plus one, plus one, plus one. And it was incredible. And it was just the greatest, like, impromptu testimonial that anybody's ever given me. And so I will always appreciate that. I'm happy for you.

And I'm happier for your children and your wife and you're rich and you're in North Carolina and you build houses and you're writing books. And who would a thunk, Rob? Definitely not you, right? No, not me. really at all and luckily nobody ever like gave me a job at some point that I would have like walked away from this at any point fascinating right like I'm really a my my own failure was like the greatest thing to get to this point because like had anybody just said like hey here's hey can will you come work for me for you know 40 thousand dollars a year yeah uh where do I

sign up yes please well listen so there's some fortune involved there's some luck involved but the more than anything else dude you have you worked so hard i would be like how is this all this back-end shit and i could say by the way the content is a thousand times better the way you've grown everything i've got a you know my girl is obsessed with you she's a huge big brother fan i'm like the thieves are 24 hours a day and my it's just and you've got that covered and you've got that fucking lunatic Terran or Tehran Or whatever. That fucking

guy, whatever he is getting paid is not enough. You sure about that? He is insane. You don't know. That dude's encyclopedic knowledge of whatever he's talking about with that Big Brother shit is unbelievable. It's insane.

Yeah. All right. Well, I'm thrilled that you're here. I am too. We could talk about... How are the babies? Hold on. I know they're not babies. Everybody's doing good. Everybody's doing good.

All right, great. Okay. Wife looks good. Thank you. Thank you. No disrespect. In the most respectful way possible. It's fucking great.

Sorry. All right. Survivor 49. Let me start there. Okay. Are you watching this season? The answer to the question is yes. Yes.

I fall asleep. a lot. Yeah. It's on my DVR and I'll put it on like at the end of the night and you know there have been seasons in the past where you're and it usually takes four or five episodes and then they get you and the hink the hooks are in. This one's been and again I you know they've got they've been on for 50 seasons Rob it's like it's a it's a it's a Marvel and an institution and it's just such a exceptional concept and you know it's got it's just so hard to be on TV for 25 years and there's you know I could give them some constructive criticism they don't want to hear it they're not going to

listen to it but there's it's tough for me and I and again maybe that's because there's a version of survivor that I've played there's a version of survivor that I fell in love with and this version of survivor whether it you know whether people agree with me or not is it's just different it's different with the amount of time it's different with the way that they struck like they don't you know that they don't starve them human beings are different now than they were 25 years ago and you know the there's a the lovey cuddly kumbai yi we're all camping at jeff's family or Jeff's Funhouse, it's the elements that, when they, when they tap on the elements that harken back to the old survivor, I enjoy it, if that makes sense.

The competitions, uh, when they allow people to not be, when they allow people to be who they are, that Savannah girl is clearly, you know, she's got a little bit of that like villain thing going on. And I feel like, uh, there's so many of them. There's the few that all look at there was like three of them that all really looked alike. And one of them got voted off last week, but the sour, the more, the more like human one that's still on.

She's kind of interesting. Sage. Sage. Yeah. There's, you know, there's no, in order to tell stories that,

where you want people to, like, get engaged, there has to be conflict. There isn't a ton of conflict anymore. Would you agree? I would agree 100%. And I would agree 100%.

And I, I have, you know, recently revisited some, I was watching some clips from Survivor, Panama. And that was a season where there was interpersonal conflict. We were, well, yeah, I mean, they got, well, they didn't get lucky because Lynn's very good at what she does, right? And I think that, I think that the dynamics of all of that were incredible. Yeah, there wasn't also, you know, there's poor Jesse and the, this Jeff guy, it's just impossible to cast now because all these people are casting what they're, most of the people, it was like the sixth year and it was toning down. It was in that

first low, I think, right? You, you and those first seven or eight seasons were like 50 million people a week were watching. I sort of was cast in the first low where it was kind of settling down a little bit. Still had like 20 million viewers, but it was not the thing. And I feel like people were just not as aware about being on camera, right? There were people that were worried about being on camera on the show, but they, there were very few and far between. It was still, I want to go for the experience of a lifetime. I don't want, it's, it's different now.

People are like, social media happens. So if I go on this show, I'm going to have fun, but then I'm also going to get 100,000 followers, and I'm going to, it's just, it's not on Survivor. Not on Survivor. I don't, I don't know what, I don't know what any of that be. I don't know how to, I don't know. Well, I just say that you don't get that kind of like, if you go look at like what the current new era players get in terms of followers from being on the show, the big brother people, maybe. You know, you go look at like the big brother audience will follow you on Instagram, but I think it's few and far between people that get 100,000 followers from being on Survivor.

Got it. Are people not, are people not watching the show anymore? it's hard to say in terms of i have found that there is it's i i have said i'll speak frankly i have sensed in the fan base some indifference towards survivor 49 people are excited about survivor 50 coming up for sure but i think that coming in there was like a little indifference and then i think that the way that the season has gone so far on survivor 49 i have sensed a little apathy towards Survivor and Survivor 49. And I can't really remember a time when I've experienced there being more apathy, especially

when the episode is on. And maybe there's a little bit of a, hey, wake me up when it's Survivor 50. But so far this season, and I think it's gotten better every week, baby steps, and maybe it's going to be an exciting post merge. And that's what Jeff has said it's going to be. But I just have not remembered a time when I have felt like the people, like, you know, like, even the hardcore Survivor fans are a little checked out with this season. Got it.

I think it might be also just because it could be the burnout from just the new era, right? Like, we, I think people have been watching and kept watching, hoping for some kind of conflict or some kind of, like, people aren't rewarded for being greedy. They're not, there's, there's that, like, I'm going to, there's no killers anymore. I don't, they don't cast killers, right? guys that will do anything they anything to win. Like, they just they don't. And Shane, compare it with Big Brother that

you were there and you I was in. I watched them. I mean, you were in and there you cannot say there was any apathy towards Big Brother this past year. Not at all, but they were also, there was some guys in there to kind of win. Like there's gamers in there.

There's, there's you know, I think we've got to that whole point where like everybody, you know, everybody claps when people do good in the challenge or everybody cries when people get evicted like that's and i won't even say that it was the greatest game players but there was drama in in the big brother house and i feel like that in survivor not to rehash this point too much there is a lot of like personal drama in the players of them bringing in like you know this is what I'm dealing with back home, there's not a ton of at least so far to this point in

this season and largely in a lot of the new seasons that there's not a ton of like clashing of the personalities. There's a lot of like it's me versus myself versus the elements. You know, can I overcome? Can I grow? But we like, we like the fighting. I mean, it's it's people are competing for a million dollars. They're trying to, like, I don't... But it's not about that. We don't talk about that anymore. We really, it's almost that the, the prize is rarely mentioned...

Self-discovery, right, finding out who you really are. The prize is what will you get out of this experience as opposed to the prize is a life-changing amount of money. Can I ask a question and you don't have to answer this? And it's not, I'm not, it's not being disrespectful. Jeff is the shell runner, he's the executive producer. He's 66 now. I don't know just exact age.

That sounds about right, but I don't know exact. Okay. So in the mid-60s, I know for me just in the last- Looks great. Looks amazing. I know for me between 50 and 55, I have me me me I have mellowed incredibly, right? So as a guy in his mid-60s who's put this show on for 25 years and he's allowed to make

whatever show he wants to make, he's earned that. Do you think that there has been a mellowing, like he's proven himself to himself, he's got all the money he'll ever need, he's got a wonderful wife and kids, his life is good. Is there a little bit of that rocky three thing where he's just soft? No, I don't, I don't think that mellowing is the right word, because I think that Jeff, I think, is as driven as ever. Like, I don't think that he is like there's a, like he's taking his foot off the gas in terms of just how much he's working on the show.

Like, I think he's grinding as hard as ever. Like, more chemical, like, less testosterone, less. I don't know about, well, I don't want to, I don't want to get into that. But, well, no, I mean, oh, like. Yeah, yeah, I think that, like, when we came back in Survivor 41, like, I think that Jeff, who was, I think, always, like, a hard ass with the contestants, came back into a little bit more of a grandfatherly. They call him Uncle Jeff now. And I think that he definitely has come back and, you know, he's a little bit more self-reflective of like, hey, I want to like give

everybody a chance and I want to allow people to be portrayed. The show is less mean in terms of like making fun of the contestants. And I think that there is a much softer edge from the show where that they don't go out of their way to try to make people look stupid on the show and they don't want to feature people in a very unflattering light. So in that way, yes, I would say that Survivor has definitely mellowed.

And the testosterone comment was not meant to, it's just when you turn, you know, and I've gotten older, I'm just mellower. I'm like, want to go with the flow. Don't want to be, like, it's just, I just feel like they, yeah, I mean, it is what it is. the show that they want to make

and they've earned the right to make the show they're making. And, you know, I watch it and there's a lot of nights I fall asleep and then I wake up in the morning and I'm like, that kind of bums me out that I fall asleep during the middle of the show. I just wonder if it's a little bit of a

misread of like what people are looking for. And I've talked about this, you know, over the years where, you know, when Survivor first came on the air and you were there, you know, early on the beginning. It was a show that sort of looked at the depravity of human beings. What are people willing to do to get this money? Shane Powers once said the person with the lowest moral

code is going to be the person who wins the game, correct? I said the person, yeah, the person with the lowest moral code has the best chance of winning. I don't remember what I said, but it was a phenomenal comment. Great take. And that's really what the show was exploring. And it was at a time where, you know, we looked to reality TV to see this depravity. But, you know, in our politicians, like, hey, everybody better. We very well behaved and have good manners.

And now it's kind of flipped where, you know, we like have a, in Survivor, we look to it as it's the pinnacle of sportsmanship. everybody loves each other give you give a hug to everybody who just voted you out and shake their hand and say good game when you lose meanwhile the in the real world uh that's the reality tv you know isn't that crazy in 25 years it's no it's super interesting how things have flipped and things are different i also i also really believe that they have they have paid too much attention to the voices in the digital in the twitter sphere and the insti sphere yeah well they do it they don't. Okay, so tell me about that because I don't, you, I like more. Because I think in terms of like when we're talking about the game and like, what are we doing, three tribes and like, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, trust us. This is, this is the new plan. This is the plan.

We know what we're doing. Let us cook. We know what we're doing. But I hear what you're saying about in, in terms of other parts. The Gen Z kind of wokee, wokey, which, by the way, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful place to be. Yeah. It's a wonderful place to be. I, you know, I just had some recent experience, and we'll talk about it very quickly,

but there was some kind of a thing where Jeremy was asked if he thinks Parvetti's a two-time winner, and he said no. Yes. And then Parvety made a comment about two men being a thing. And then I commented on Jeremy's post, and then I got 75 posts telling me that I'm an old man and a boomer. and it's a bad take and I just, you know, it's, whatever's going on right now is just, it's, you know, it's wild. I don't think it was, yeah, I mean, like the pile on Jeremy.

I just think that Jeremy, first of all, the question was, does part of it he deserved to be a two-time winner? And he answered no. And then the respective universe. Yeah, I don't even think it was deserve. I think is, is she, should she? she'd be concerned. Right.

And then Harvard made that comment. Yes. And then there's just a whole universe of identity politics kind of people. It's just Jeremy doesn't wasn't making the, he wasn't, he wasn't having an opinion about it. He was asked whether the best female, like there was no. Right. He wasn't, he wasn't weighing in on. It wasn't a gender question.

Yeah, like it wasn't an affront. Yes. I know you want to get off. No, it's fine. I do want to say this. Jeremy has raised two girl women. I got shit for saying that. And I mean girl women because they're 19.

They're like, college. Girls about to become women, right? Or in that way. And they're unbelievably qualified. College athletes. He goes to all their games.

He's an amazing wife. He would never, he would never, ever, ever, it's not even in his head. And so he's just had this put on him by somebody who, by the way,

is a beast. Parvety is an absolute animal. She is absolutely on the Mount Rushmore of Survivor. She's one of the great players of all times. She's the combo of, she's like Leonardo DiCaprio of reality TV because she's really good and you just want to watch her. Like she puts asses in seeds and she's really good. So for someone to make it about,

gender politics and then it just felt really unfair and I don't talk to Parvety I haven't talked to Parvety in 10 15 years And you're protective over Jeremy I am I just

I'm just By the way When I was making the comment I was like I don't do this anymore Why I took my Twitter down Like why am I doing this And and listen I don't yeah

I don't think Parvety thought through the comment And I think she probably were I would hope that she regrets it and she knows, because she knows Jeremy's a good guy. I think it was probably, isn't there some stuff going on between Jeff and Parv? I'm not, I don't know about that. I don't know about that, Shane.

No, I mean, is there like a, is there, you don't got it. Yeah, but. There's been some comments, though. If you could. She asked to be on 50? I don't know if she was asked to be on 50. I think that she had done Australian Survivor

versus the world, although Cere was on it. But I think that, For whatever reason, I don't think that they were talking to poverty about 50. Okay, so let's get into this. Can I just say one thing? Please. As far as, if you talk to Jeremy, can you ask him to say that I only lost Survivor one and a half times? Yes.

I will make sure that he says that you are a one and a half time loser. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I will have imposed that. By the way, Jeremy and I wouldn't even consider. consider us friends. We're, we're, we are people that, he's the greatest. Uh, I, I love I love Jeremy too. And I just think he's a wonderful man. I think he's, he's raised two wonderful children. He's a great dad. The guy went to the firehouse the day after he won a million dollars. I mean, it's just, it's just a wrong guy to take a shot at. Like, Parvety,

shoot that at me. And you got a winner. Like, there's been 13 different ways I've been a misogynist prick like i get that but this it was just it was a bad target for her don't look now but the holidays are right around the corner and if your place isn't ready for guests wayfair has got you covered whether you need a few extra seats for thanksgiving some cozy bedding or holiday decor that actually feels like you now's the time because wayfair's black friday sale is live all month long wayfair really is the destination for everything home, from sofas to spatulas and everything in between right now, you can get up to 70% off. Wayfair is responsible for most of what you can see behind me in my studio. I love how easy it is to find something that fits your exact style. Plus,

they're fast. Free shipping makes getting ready for the holidays stress-free. Don't miss out on these early Black Friday deals. Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70% off. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Sale ends December 7th. So you said you wanted to talk about 50? Yeah, I do want to talk about 50, but I also want to talk. Did you watch Big Brother? Are you, okay, and you, and I can't talk about the traders because you were on it.

Well, yeah, because it didn't happen. It's not on TV yet. Right. so it will happen soon do you do you feel good about your experience on the traders so i really uh i don't think i'm allowed to talk about that i get it but i'm trying like there's a whole nation of rha peers that are trying so i'm just gonna just hold give me another one uh the show lasts like 20 days to film it or you can't say that either i think you're in the right ballpark i think you're in the right pole for okay and you are not it's not like survivor in the sense that like

here you go game on and then you're left alone right like there is there is some some production that's going on with the traders correct you know i really Shane i do not i don't have in front of me what i'm allowed to talk about or not so i'll opt on but it was it was it was i think there's been some there's plenty of like uh you know things on line and and and all that got it and do you feel like your time on the traders was beneficial to your existence in a whole as a whole as a person did you learn anything about yourself rob i'll say i definitely did yes okay and and this will help with the overall the thing that you are like the reality we we we have we Yeah, we'll have to find out.

But like in so far, you're going to have coverage. You would be the go-to guy if I'm going to watch all your episodes. It just builds the brand. It's a good thing, regardless of whether you got voted out first or not. I hope so. Yeah. Were you bummed that you weren't on 50? So I was, just to go back to the spring, I was talking to them.

And you know this. I was talking to them about 50. and I was really getting the sense that I felt like I don't think it's happening. Like I think that probably around like December, January, that was probably when I was feeling the most like, okay, this is this is going to be going on. But I really felt like I didn't hear from anybody for a while and I really started to feel like, I think they'd be talking to me more if this was really happening. So I was really getting the strong sense it wasn't happening. And I think I was at peace with that because I was very, I had mixed feelings about going back and doing it. I'd love to play Survivor.

I would, I truly would. It would be such a thrill for me to go. Would you rather, would you like to play this Survivor? I think it would be, I think it would be fine. I would, I would, I would love to play Survivor, but again. yes I would but I would say that the thing that would be so complicated is what does that look like in terms of my livelihood for me to be a survivor contestant so if I could just go play survivor and do and do the thing and I and then I like not podcasts about we'd we'd figure it

out but I just think there's so many messy complications which which are fair like in terms of like it would be weird for somebody it's like a little like incestuous of that okay so now you have a guy who podcasts about this thing and now is also on the thing it would be it would be weird um and i think it would be very complicated and i think that there would be some things that i don't know if i would be necessarily would be comfortable giving up so much control over this thing that i've built which is like my entire livelihood I don't know what that would look like

two points to that if I'm a producer on Survivor I'm a higher up and you're on for 50 there's two things going on on my head yes he should be on 50 for sure however he's more valuable to us if he's not

so that he can be doing the machine while we're airing 50 right and so that's That's why I think you got cut out because you're more valuable to the franchise being out about and with no track. I can live with that. But I would love to, like, have the opportunity to play Survivor. I think that there was definitely the concern of I could go out there and just get totally

dunked on and, you know, would my credibility take a hit for sure, I think, but I still would have done it. I would I would have gone out there and potentially made a fool out of myself and people said, oh, like, I feel like there's a, I feel like there's a very good chance that you will be asked soon. I feel like they're a situation where I came up with the most brilliant idea ever, by the way. I have good ideas. One season a year needs to be returnees with Jeff. And the other season, as he figures out what he's doing with his life, the other season should be newbies and they should break in

like you as the host or they should recast that and that's what they should do with the franchise. Yeah, I don't like that idea. So listen, I'm not going to turn down if somebody at CBS says, hey, we want you to host the Survivor.

But I don't think that that would be the direction that they would go. I mean, I could see maybe a different person named Rob being the person that they would tap for something like that. But I don't know. I feel like that,

I don't get the sense that Jeff is looking to walk away from any of this. And I feel like in terms of if you're looking to groom a successor, who's looking to groom a successor? He's the show. Like, he's not sitting there and saying like, hey, you know, we need somebody to replace me. Right. Again, that would have to, we would all have to be in Jeff's head. And I don't know what that means.

What do you think about a returning season and a newbie season every single? year and he's the host of both. Yeah, I think that that would be fine. I think that they probably, even if they said let's do it every two years, like every fourth season is going to be all stars. We're going to bring back people like, you know, 54, 58, 62, you know, and at least just build it in and that's like expected that that's what you're doing instead of, you know, they went 10 seasons without returning players, and then it was a cluster F.

Right. I, is there anybody from 41 to 49 that you think has earned the right to be on 50? Whether they were cast or not. Yeah, I think. Parallet. Well, Jesse. Sure. These are, there's a couple of people.

Sure. Yeah. Sure. And I think that there are people that like are, are, do we look at them as sort of like the greatest players of all time? I'm not necessarily sure, but in terms of like huge character. I think Q is another person who I think would be an all-star in any era. I'm trying to think of. Those are good.

Q, Jesse, Carolyn. Those are three great. Oh, I've mentioned two dudes and one woman. I must be. There's another woman. Who's the other woman? Well, I would say Marianne is somebody also that I think is somebody that should have been there for season 50. Interesting.

Interesting. She happens to have won. right I yeah it's so funny because in 48 is the kids named Kyle the one yes I mean as far as gameplay goes I think he put up one of the great games ever I mean I do the way that he manufactured a few of those blind sides and put it on had made other people be done I'm you know I'm too old to remember but as I was watching it I was like this is the mastercraft shit like he could be back there with the he could be back there with the greats he really really had a he had the one woman doing all the work for him right

yeah the younger yes and i yes the younger girl and i thought he did an amazing job did you not like that did you not think that or i thought that kyle did a great job as the winner of survivor 48 i don't know if they needed to bring him back immediately for survivor 50 with all due respect to kyle i know that probably sounds disrespectful to Kyle, but I didn't watch Survivor 48 and say, as a winner, instantly, like, he needs to come back, especially when it seemed like that so much as Survivor 50 was not people who had already won before.

Fascinating. I'm sorry you weren't on, man. I know that you really wanted to... And you would ask me, going back to, would I have rather, you know, what would I rather have done? So I really was at peace about going, to Survivor or not going to Survivor.

Sure. And so then when the other opportunity came up that it was something that I had almost no hesitation to go do because I felt like that all of the things that I had apprehension about with Survivor weren't there to go do the traitors. It's so funny. You know what I do watch and I fucking hate saying this.

I hate it. I hate it, but I enjoy the challenge more than I enjoy Survivor currently. I don't know you watched the challenge. I'm a big challenge guy. COVID hit. I'd never seen it. I watched all 39th, whatever, how many seasons. I'm like connected with them all.

I mean, I actually am so into the challenge that I thought about like hitting you going, let me do a pot about the challenge because you don't have a challenge pot. Because I don't know that. Well, yeah, we do have challenge coverage. I don't do it, but this is fascinating that you are so into it. Who are some of your favorites? Who are some of your legends of the challenge? I mean, clearly CT is a favorite of mine, right?

And I really respect Jordan's game. I think Jordan's great. I think bananas is ridiculous, but that it would all, all, how this, all, I'll say a person, and based on you knowing me, tell me if you think I like them or don't like them. Okay. And again, you have to, excuse me, if I, that I am not, like, on the same level that you are with your challenge. Okay. Nani. I will say. What would Shane think? You like her? I do not. Oh. I think Nani's ridiculous. What about Anisa?

Hmm. Do you know any of these people you don't? You know, I know something was there was a, they did a one that was crossover with the CBS reality. And so some of these people play. but again, you have me at such a disadvantage, Shane. I get it. The shoes on the other foot now. But just so that I get some cred with everybody listening, I really liked

Tori is an amazing player. There's a woman from the early 20 who is great. Tori Deal. Yes, she's really good. By the way, Michaela from Survivor has crossed over. She's like a dominant player.

She's enjoyable to watch. What about Michelle? I have a tough time with Michelle. Yes. I have a tough time. Because I don't know her challenge persona. So what I only saw her on the one season that was the CBS reality. She's okay.

I mean, she's not, yeah, I don't, I have a, you know, I don't, I have, by the way, and again, anybody, if I say I have a tough time with or I don't like, I will preface, I know this person and I don't like this person, right? When we're talking about, I have, I've never met Michelle. I don't know. The only version of Michelle I know is whatever I've seen on TV or whatever she's tweeted or insteed, right? So, you know, I just have a tough time. Because I get the sense if you spent time with her in real life, I feel like that you would say, hey, that's a, I don't put words in your mouth, but that's a cool chick. Say that again the way you said it. Did you mimic my voice?

I tried to. I half-assed it. I probably, if you weren't here, I would have to, that's a cool chick. You can't half-ass anything in life, man. But I'm basically, I'm making you like Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice is a pretty great character. I'm the host who the most, Rob. Beetlejuice is pretty great.

Anyway, the challenge, and here's what's going on for me, is this is why I think. There's still drama. There's still people trying to win. There's this competitiveness to it that's really great. There's some scheming. And the show isn't trying to make a point. It's like, TJ is dope.

He smokes a lot of weed with his chick and rescues dogs, I would imagine. And he shows up and he's thrilled to have his job, but he's not using the show as a vehicle to affect social change, right? Does that make sense? It's just what it is. And I feel like that's a big problem. And there's diversity, but we're not necessarily, like, raising, like, awareness of all these different issues that exist outside of the game. Yeah, I think Jeff and the show has decided that on top of it being a show, it's also a vehicle to affect change positively in the universe.

And that's a beautiful thing. They want to tell stories about all of these people. And they find people who have these things that they're experiencing or going through that are all, you know, interesting. in some platform, but sometimes we're just exploring too many themes, even in 90 minutes. Chat, the challenge is really good. You should dip in for, I mean, I know you got a busy life. It's really fun. And they're in the process.

They're losing all of the greats. Yeah. They're all in their mid-40s, and they're being aged out because the show is difficult. It's not, it's hard. And so now they're trying to grow these new people. And I believe Michelle is one of them. Michaela's one of them. They had that dude Jay.

Jay was on for a few seasons. He seemed fucking rough. That guy. I don't know anything about him, but he just seems so rough. Jay. How do you mean he seems rough? He just seems like that's not the kind of guy I would want to hang out with. Oh, okay.

Yeah. He really seemed like that he was like a shoe in to come back to Survivor, and it's kind of wild that he never did, but he ended up finding a lot of time on that. challenge. So let me ask you this. Do you think, and if I'm Jeff, I'm like, man, this fucking pisses me off. I made all these people. Yes. I gave them a life. And now they're out there doing other shows multiple times. And I would personalize them cheating on me by doing the other thing. Right. And then if I'm Jeff, I'd have to look in the mirror and go, well, it's really beautiful.

gave us a lot. They sold us a lot of cars. And this now in 2025 is a profession. A reality star is a profession now. And you can go do multiple shows. And God bless them. I don't think he should not put people on Survivor because they've done shows other than his. I think it's because I think it hurts the brand too. Because I want to see these people. I want to see you. I want to see Carolyn. I want to see Pardy again on my T. It's just, it's, it's interesting. They're having, yeah, they're, they're, they're having a minute over there. So I think that Jeff has in, at least at one point in time, I think was punitive towards the people who went and did other shows.

I think more recently, he said that he had a change of heart and he doesn't feel that way. but I think it remains to be seen how many people that we see in on other shows you know return back to Survivor Surrey did a lot of shows she's on Survivor 50 D has done the challenge

she's on Survivor 50 so in some instances it seems like they look past it and then in other instances it seems like they're a little more annoyed with certain people it's so funny I think I saw a clip when Jeff was like it's Surrey she can do whatever she wants right I think in regards to like

And I just thought that's why that brought is so good at these games because that's how you feel. You just want whatever she wants. It's all good. Like, whatever that is. That's so interesting. So you feel like it speaks to some of these people as players where even the people who they get mad at other people, the people that they can't stay mad at, it just speaks to their social game. It does, man. It's really, really fascinating.

That's interesting. There is a magnetism and a likeability. about Surrey Fields that you cannot deny, that you can... I mean, it is undeniable. She can do whatever she wants. Anything she wants. Yeah. Whatever she wants.

Whatever she wants. Yeah. That's great. I love that. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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uh because i'm just mellower not trying to like be bombastic or hyperbolic or you know i'm having a blast talking you though i'm having a lot of fun too so did you care for last season i know you liked kyle's game so the yes i liked kyle's game i really liked kyle and camilla I thought that they had a, they, it's really hard to be on, like, really be locked in, and then he was veering votes away from, I really, really enjoyed 48 a lot. Most of the new era has been really, really tough, man. I'm just not going to lie. I think the casting is, is, there's just no villains.

There's no, there's no conflict. It's all the same people. You fucking hit the nail on the head. This is not a, it's not, it's not, it's not. not about competing for a million dollars the the the the edit now is about or the show is about can i can i prove this to myself can i endure i didn't know that i was going to be able to do this and now i can like that that's it's shifted to the competition isn't necessarily the other players the competition is my own self-doubt can i can i do it you know am i able to

overcome this and how will i change in the outside of the game. And there certainly is definitely, you know, okay, we have all these things and all of these tools that the players can use. But the tools and advantages sort of exist so that you, the players get out because like, oh, well, they had a thing. So it's not necessarily like, oh, I dislike you, Shane. I'm voting you out tonight. And we're so happy when we see stuff like that, like with Sage and Shannon. But so much of it is like, oh, well, Shane has the vote doubler so we have to vote out Shane tonight because he has a thing right it's a yeah it's a carnival it's like a it's like an island festival hey the thing that bums me out

they don't lose any weight like there's no fucking suffering at all on the show itself yeah i mean they say it's very difficult it's hard you know we'll find out when people played survivor 50 who have played the older game and then now have play in this format they can be the like 12 people that can weigh in and tell us what the difference is between the two they say it's very intense but those are the only 12 people that could tell us the difference yeah i think it's yeah tell me how hard was it in panama tell me i mean it was hard bro we suffered it like it was brutal it rained for 16 straight days there the the sand mites were insane the huge

He was insane. It was it was brutal. You know, I don't think anybody on the show currently is sitting in a thing going, I don't know if I'm going to make it. Like, not quit.

Like, I don't know if I, like, I don't know if I'm going to, like there's a, there's a starving, raining, freezing,

ouch element that just doesn't exist now. And I don't, you know, maybe that's because they want them to run around and get idols. Like, I don't, again, I don't know.

But it is, Carter. The season three was ridiculous. The one in Africa, your season was difficult. Like, there's, you know, I will say that, and I actually played in Panama also in the All Stars. And that was really, really hard. It's the rain, I think, is the hardest part of Survivor.

And so in Survivor of the Amazon, I will say that we were very fortunate that for the most part, it was a pretty dry season. And then the rainy season in the Amazon started. last week was incredibly difficult because it just rained on us day and night and we did not have an adequate shelter because it burned down. And you can't keep a fire going and the fires. In Panama, that there were some of the worst storms I've ever seen in my life. The thunder was like immense and everything. Yeah. It was, it's brutal. And I think it hurts the show now because when you get people so brutalized

and you get them so raw, then you get people forgetting that they're going to be tweeting or they're on television or they just start to react from that, whatever that normal, whatever the lizard brain. That lizard brain comes out,

especially when you just have really depleted them from everything. There was a producer. I don't remember he produced the show. Maybe he might have been, was there a guy named Doug who was the shower? wonderful guy and after the show he was like yeah we plan we plan starting the show the last 15 days of the panama radio season we beat the shit out of you we give you no food

we give you nothing by the way that was back when you couldn't drink water if unless it was oil unless it was cooked yeah and we didn't drink water for two and a half days like they say you're cooked it means something totally different and then he said after that 15 days the weather gets better and you get food and then you start to then you it's it's just it's interesting yeah it's interesting how different it is and it's also interesting how you know listen if you won survivor 46 you won survivor period period the end yeah so this season there was a lot talking about how hot it was and how they're dealing with the heat did you have times during Panama when the heat was oppressive?

Well, I just felt like, I felt like you were just always uncomfortable was if you were hot, you just went in the water. I don't, I'm a little confused about the sweltering heat and they just go kick it in the water for 40 minutes. I don't, yeah, I mean, listen, I, maybe the heat was sweltering. Maybe the, maybe it was 90 degree. I've been in sweltering heat and it's a bummer. So, yes, maybe they are just gone through some brutal.

brutal sweltering heat and sweltering heat by the way is rough I was in Omaha this year it was like 104 and 90 degree humidity and I couldn't I didn't want to move so so kudos to them for living through the sweltering heat

let me ask you about the season 50 cast now I know obviously you are always a huge surrey supporter I'm sure you feel like she's going to do great she's set up Right?

Well, so here's the problem. These people are leaving breadcrumbs by the way they're behaving. Mm-hmm. Right? I feel like Stephanie's going to go deep. She has been, she was posting every three seconds and stories. Does a lot of posting. Yeah.

And that she was quiet. I'd rather not, like, do too much, like, online speculation. I'm here to tell you. have no idea a fucking thing on Boston. I just, I have to have like cognitive dissonance of sometimes I see things and then I'm like, okay, I, I'm not gonna think about that. I have to just like compartmentalize maybe they're trying to throw you off. Yeah.

Who's your favorite or who are you, how about this, because you don't want to talk about that. Yeah. Who are you most excited to watch? So I can give you like the interesting. interesting storylines about so many of these people of what it's going to come back. Now, Colby, I think, is so super interesting in terms of, like, what does it look like? Because they say that he's going to, he's coming back and he is like, wants to redeem himself from the last time he played. Where he really was allegedly embarrassed by how he came back and played.

What does that look like to have Colby come back? That would be amazing. come back and see that and I'm trying to think of like who else that you know that there's like a big question mark about like what does it look like for Mike White to come back after all of the success that he's had even post Survivor to come back how much does he throw himself into playing in Survivor 50 I mean Jenna Lewis has had a layoff for over 20 years since she came back and played and she is not the type of warm and fun personality that you're used to seeing on Survivor. That was 20. This is the cool thing about some of these storylines. It was 24 years ago. Well, she played on the All-Stars also in 2003.

Got it. Okay. So 22 years, 23 years, that is a different human being. You would think, right? Like, I would be a complete, I was 34 in athletic. I'm 55 and overweight and, like, losing my test. Like, I am an old guy, right? And the, and the, the emotion, like, the mental capacity, it's just those people that,

there's a few of them that have been on that will have, that will literally be generationally different than they're, than when they were on, right? Yeah. How do you think Ozzy? Like, do you think Ozzy? Oh, I forgot about Ozzy. Are you interested to see how he does? I would say I'm a little less interested in seeing Ozzie come back.

Like, I get it. why you would want to bring back Ozzy. And generally, I am in favor of, okay, bring back, this is the 50th season, bring back the big name. So I'm not going to complain too much about Ozzy. But I really felt like

that we only had Ozzy play in season 34. And it was a question of okay, here's Ozzy now. Was it Ozzie's, was it Ozzie's fourth time then? And so I felt like that

Ozzy didn't really have another gear and I like Ozzy I've like had positive experiences every time I've interacted with him but I just don't feel like I have a question of but what would Ozzie be like now I feel like that the last time we saw him we saw okay well he doesn't really still have it in terms of being the physically dominant freak in the challenges that he once was so I feel like even further removed from season 34, I'm not sure necessarily what the story is with Ozzy coming back. Except that I know him and coach aren't on the same page. And so I like the idea of there being some conflict

that him and coach don't love each other. And coach will be great because that's coach. Coach is a magnetic, charismatic, engaging human. Whatever he does, you're going to want to watch him, right? so it doesn't matter whatever version of coach we get he's just got the thing is what i like to call it right so he's going to do his job and be great i'm really upset kelly wentworth wasn't on i don't know why she's like a national treasure wow and she's done an amazing job like with the like why is she not on i you know all this shit you're going to pretend like you don't you

fucking were in Jeff's house. You were in San Francisco and you flew down to hang out. I just, I feel like that she does that maybe, I think after her last time that she played, I think she left the show on like less than ideal terms. Got it. There is a, okay, just, there is a real, there is a real problem with like the bias and stuff. because do you want to personalize things or do you want to make the best television you can make, right?

And so Russell, bummer. If I was ever in a room with him, there would probably be a scrap, right? I don't, I, it would be, it would, it's 50-50 of him and I are throwing, right? There's no doubt. But that guy should have been on 50. Should he have not? he's a he is one of the he's one of the grades of all time yeah it's almost like if you could

and i'm not advocating for this if you could get sora ai to film the season and you get these people like in their prime and put them out there it would be such a no-brainer to have russell hands. But that I think that there are legitimate questions of his stability. Russell, don't get mad at me for saying this. But I think there's legitimate stability issues. I think that that would be the concern of, you know, do you, do they feel good about Russell and him not just on the show, but what is he going to say after the show? I get it. on social media. And again, if you could just do this in a simulation,

it would be one of the first people you would plug in. By the way, it would be the same worry that they would have had for me, right? You just don't know. It's crazy that he didn't get a fourth shot. It is crazy. He should have been back on. Tyson should have been back on. By the way, it was weird to have all these people come out and be like,

And kind of just, I'm like, wait a minute, Tyson, you wanted to go and you're not on? That's weird. And that must have been challenge. I'm pissed. Well, I think that they made a decision where they said, okay, they were not bringing back people from Survivor 40. And so I can, like, play. I can color inside the lines of whatever you say the rules are. It's like, okay, we're not bringing back people from Survivor 40.

But I thought it was we're not bringing back people from Survivor 40 because they were when, it was winners and we're not going to bring back winners, but then they brought back winners. So I don't know necessarily like what the rubric was of like making the ultimate decisions. And I really, please, I know, as people are going to think of this is sour grapes on my part. It's not, I'm just trying to like put my head inside the figure out what the logistics were of like, how do you make these calls? There's no, first of all, there's no sour grapes, B, and B, there is this weird thing. Like, I've been in the running six times to be on the show, right? And then you're like...

You're the ultimate bridesmaid. Right. So there's all these times and you're like, eh, whatever. And then what happens is, is you're like, they start you down the path, and then you're doing all the stuff. And then you really want to go on. And then you're like, really want it, right? And then it, and then that's frustrating.

Like, so I can imagine that, like, they start that cycle with you. And then you're like, I want to be. on this like i want to do this again because you've started that process because it is a that that onboarding that you have to do for three months before you go on the show it's its own thing you get all wound up you start like processing yourself being out of your life there's all and and then there's this there is this feeling of rejection like when you don't get on you're like why why like in your head you're like why not and it's it's tough the other there are other people And again, I'm no victim, right?

Every single time I put myself through the process, I made the decision to do that. That doesn't mean that I should be cast. It doesn't mean that I should get on. I do not like the whining of people. Like, the Jerry thing was rough. Like, Jerry, they don't owe you anything. You chose to put yourself through the process.

You chose to go down the roads. You chose to do this. And I think it would have been very fun to have. Jerry back, especially Jerry and Colby, I think it would have been a fun. By the way, probably should have cast her, right? Like, I would have. But you can't be mad at them for not casting you.

It's their choice. It's their show. You don't just get to be on it because you want to be on it. Yeah. But I would love to hear you talk a little bit about just the idea of... But I would love to hear you talk about... I really would because I think you always have interesting opinions. And for better or for worse, you know, people may not like what you

have to say, but you're not afraid to say it. And I think that that's always refreshing to have somebody on the podcast who thinks that way and doesn't just say what everybody wants to hear. Is that controversial what I just said? No, I don't, I don't think so. But I'm sure somebody can misconstrue it and take it as it being anti-Jerry and- But that's the, but that's the world we live in now. Like we can't really, that, that ship is sailed. There is a nation of, there's a of people that are on their computers and they think that they've been effective on social media.

They got a lot of likes. They got a lot of retweets. Yeah. And they got him. They got him. And they took out Shane. They finally got their wish. They got him to be quiet.

Exactly. Let's see. Okay. So all of that, there is a nation of those people that, and it's just, it's, it's a frustrating, interesting time. Okay.

By the way, this could be a lot of, lot of your listeners and I'm sure they hate my guts. Don't care. But the idea of I had it once and now you think about going back and it really is a, not that the show is doing anything nefarious, but there is like a bit of a, I'm not even sure what the right word to call it. I don't want to say it's necessarily a sickness.

And I don't want to say it's necessarily like a addiction, but you had that one hit and it's perverse that you go through the machinations of like, okay, but I'm going to go back. And then it's going to be wait until you see what happens, like once I just get back. So I have broken that part down. And this is what I think it is. no matter what goes on in your life, and I've had a big life, right, the biggest. You cannot in your real life replicate the experience of being on Survivor.

And when you do it and you survive it, whether you win or lose, it's the experience of a lifetime. And when someone says, yo, there's the opportunity that you get to have one of the great experiences of your life that you can't replicate, anywhere else you can't when someone potentially invites you to be back on and do that again the immediate answer from everybody is an auto yes in their head and then they they might talk themselves out of it they might be like never they might think no i didn't like the way people talked about me but that that guttural thing is yes of course i want to do that again because i

can't do it anywhere else. Yeah. And you're chasing a high that almost nobody is going to get, like, maybe out of the people that you, that come back, almost everybody's going to have a worse experience than the first time they played. So that's my question, because I don't, I don't, you did it the second time. It wasn't as good as the first time, right? No, it was not.

Not at all. No. Because it's not new Because it's all You've processed a lot of the You've had a lot of the Well because I didn't do well either Like I get

I get that And that's some ego shit That you got to figure out Right But I would imagine And it's been like It's been 22 years I'm okay

I wouldn't be it is I would imagine the second time though Just didn't on any level Capture the feeling of the first I mean it did While I was getting ready to go Right

But then you get there. Got there. It was downhill from there. Right. It's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't. Because almost everybody was like the star of their first season.

That's how they got to be on the All-Stars. And then almost everybody is going to have a worse experience on the second timeout. And maybe somebody will win. And maybe they didn't win before. And they'll say, this was great. This was my incredible time. on, but like look at like the season that you got left at the altar of, uh, at second chances where that you had what, how many people were on that season? Was it 20 people that

ended up going? And of the 20 people that ended up going, who had a better time the second time than the first time? Jeremy and Kelly Wentworth. I think that that's it. Right, right. That was, that was a fascinating experience. Going through that was really strange. Maybe Kimmy Kappenberg. also had a better, but she probably feels like, hey, I almost, I should have won. I was right there. Right. But other than that, like, of the, so 20 people, 17 are like, this was, this is, I hated this. I was closer, I think, honestly, I was closer to getting on heroes versus villains than I was the second chance.

And then here comes, okay, this is so interesting now. Okay, so we saw the other night that here's Jack. Survivor 49, okay? Really weird. Says to the people, hey, just so you know, we still have spots that are open for season 50. I didn't like that choice. And there's some people, there was a young Shane Powers out there who was in Survivor 50, who ends up losing a spot to somebody who's going to be from Survivor 49.

I also didn't like I didn't like that choice they made creatively because it tells the audience we're not happy with what you're doing and so we've got to throw you some other kind of like bone to try to get you to start doing whatever we want you to be doing. I was really surprised that was in the show. I had heard Jeff in an interview talk about oh and then we told them that there were still spots in 50 and then they really went like oh, that's interesting. but I was shocked it was a part of the episode. I was really, really blown away by that choice as well, for sure. And maybe they thought, because obviously, if you're playing in the 40s, everybody knows about Survivor 50, I think that maybe some of these other players in Survivor 47, 48, okay, obviously, I know I'm playing for a spot on Survivor 50.

Maybe these people on Survivor 49 thought like, well, the books are closed. There's no way I'm getting on Survivor 50. I'm just part of this filler season. and then to have it be, by the way, you still, like, we still have, there's still a chance. Right, the breadcrumbs. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was a really interesting choice. And they could obviously cut that out if they, if it turns out that there's nobody that we want, we'll just take it out.

Well, they were in the middle of casting at that point. I think they just thought that we're going to hold two spots for, you know, I feel like there's just. Yeah. Well, I think that, like, just to go backwards, I'm not sure at what point in time. they are at in in the calendar when they're at this point in survivor 49 i think that they're probably like sometime like aprilish while this is happening so they still have like a month and a half or so uh because you're i'm talking out of my butt a little bit in terms of i don't know when they filmed survivor 49 i'm trying to think of when uh like when it must i think it was

Sometime in April, I think it must have been. Right. And they had to go right back, correct? Like directly? Or did they have some time? You know, I really, I believe that they were home. They were home. Because I believe...

Russell had to go right back. Yeah. When I interviewed the Kyle and Camilla and Joe for Survivor 49 after the season, they were, I believe, you know, they were back in the United States for that. So they certainly spent time at home after. Got it. got it are you are you comfortable with

are you comfortable with the structure of the 26 days and the Fiji as a and I know it's all budgetary and I get all that yeah is are you is it are you do you hold anybody that wins the 26 day survivor

in the same regard as someone that won the 39 um it's a good win I think it's more of a half way. No, I have no issue with it. I can't believe these two dudes. I mean, for the guys that did it, I think it's fine. But no, in all seriousness, I've really,

I've never complained about 26 days. I really haven't. I understand that the 39 days is more of a pure game. People get at each other's throats more. But I've never really complained about the 26 days. I think that there's a lot. a downtime. I'd love to see, like, if they had some sort of a middle ground. I feel like 30 is like a decent round number where you can give it a little bit more. But I've never been a big

complainer about 26 days. And I think it's fine. I have more issues with the formatting of it always being three tribes and some of the stuff they do where, and I was very grateful they didn't do mergatory we just had a normal merge uh i don't like when they merge and then they break them back up into two tribes i don't like that so i i will complain about the specifics of the format but i can live with the 26 days i just thought i me too i don't mean i honestly don't care that much and if you win survivor you win survivor no one's asked well which which which day count survivor is there's none of that i will say this though on Day 19, I was out there, and I was like, I'm not even fucking halfway done in your head.

And the 26th, you're like, I got a week left. Like, I could, you know what I could do this on my head. Like, day 19 is still, it's still like, man, I could get myself into a lot of trouble at any, like, it's another month, basically. So, but again, at the end of the day, this show is different. the treats and the give an idol and a give a vote and a share a vote and a fuck it's it's a fun house it's jeff's i know he probably takes that as an insult but it's not i it's jeff's island fun house now that's what i call survivor yeah and it's fair because it is that's what it is it's his fun house did you like when they had the themes do you think that they should go back to that once they get

through survivor 50 do you want to see them go back or are you okay with the number I mean, you know, I think there's something interesting about the themes because it then, it then dictates the way you're going to cast the show, right? Brains, brawn, beauty. So I could, yeah, I mean, there's not a lot of beauty anymore. There's like, there's not, there is, like, there's not, there is, like, I would watch the show and go, fuck i don't know if i could do that like that dude's a beast like the you know the jonathan young's like and the you know there is a little bit of the like it's fun to look at really hot chicks and bikinis for 13 weeks like all that's gone and hot dudes and hot dudes in speedos i just said jonathan young

yes the big dude who's like back on 50 like the there is something aspirational about like man am i like i don't i don't know it's all yeah yeah i don't how about this shame everybody's pretty average i i there's like a everybody on the show is just pretty average now there's not that many there's not except like i don't i and i all these people were going to be like this fucking old so so let me try to quantify what you're saying a little bit okay articulate what I'm saying. We have people who are phenomenal in their, in their, maybe the quality of their character of that these are like outstanding people. If this was, if we were hiring at our company, all of these people would be standout candidates for to come and work at our company.

They would be wonderful candidates. Very nice. Very nice. In the old days, you would cast more flawed people of that maybe and you'd get a person that's like okay this is a person who is a knockout with their looks but you know maybe isn't all isn't the isn't the smartest uh you know sharpest crayon in the box and but you would also have somebody who is uh you know maybe kind of a sleazy guy, and I mean like a, like a Brian Heideck type of like a used car salesman or or sure. Yeah, somebody who is like a little bit rough around the edges. And we have like these wonderful people who go out to play.

But then they're not always, they're sometimes a little conflict averse. And that comes from being so unproblematic that they come out there and everybody's just very excited to be there. And we get a lot of kumbaya, at least until in the very beginning of the show. And so sometimes the first half can be kind of slow because everybody is lovely. Well, but that's also, the show can't do anything about that because the show is an institution. And because the show is what it is and it's part of the lexicon, there is, you can't, like, people are just fucking thrilled to be out there, right? Oh my God, I can't believe I'm on Survivor.

like that that that that surreal thing that's very real and you can't there's no way to cast 16 people I mean I guess there is but you'd have to get 16 people that aren't super fans that are like learning on the fly but then also want to win and you've also got to look at their MPI or MM and whatever that thing is and you got like the borderline criminal and the and the you know all you got to it's not easy in a change in a To be diverse, in a chase to be diverse, we are lacking real diversity on this cast, socially, emotionally, right? Like, we're not, and again, I'm very into the diversity thing, and it was hugely, but we have, we have homogenized this thing. Yeah. By the way, and they could be like, you're right, and this is what we want, and this is the show we want to make. And fuck you, Shane. And great.

I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, you're not the first person to say what you're saying. Like, I think a lot of people feel that way. I get it. Yeah. Okay. What else is on your mind? I, uh, anything you want to ask is what's on my mind.

How's everything going with Jolene Coffee? Things are great with Jolene. We are very, very lucky. Yes. We are incredibly lucky. Can you talk about, I don't know if we, if everybody knows about your, who your partner is in Jolene Coffee. So, that was a nice segue into me talking about the famous guy. So seven years ago, I, my buddy, Anthony Keatis and I, we've been friends for 25 years.

Anthony is sort of my Eskimo in the life that I'm living now, right? I'm 13 years sober. And we bonded over. What do you mean that he's your Eskimo? Well, we have bonded over. we've bonded over living a certain way of life, right? And in that, we had coffee,

we've had coffee every single Thursday for the last 20 years. And a lot of beautiful things have come from that. If we're both in town, right? It's not ever, but Thursdays are a night. And he has sort of led the way he's had more experience in living a life that I choose to want to live.

And in that, every Thursday for the last 20th, years we've become very close we become he's like a he's like an older brother and we've laughed we've cried we've yelled at each other we've made the most ridiculous jokes like we've had this beautiful friendship and seven years ago i was like let's start a business together like let's build something let's do something together and he was like bro i got a job and i was like i know you got a job But in the downtime, have you ever thought, is there anything? He's like, I don't know, let's make, we, we, let's do a coffee.

We have coffee every Thursday. Let's do coffee. And so I was like, that's fascinating. So then I went and got a friend of mine, John, who runs, sort of is like the, he's sort of like the sion of L.A. Nightlife. He was immediately attached. And then we spent like four years trying to come up with something in the can that was good enough. Because at the end of the day, there's a lot of different opinions about me, but I am a very authentic individual. And so we spent this amount of time trying to get this, because the coffee would taste great, but then you have to put it in a can, it's got to go through this process called retort.

And because you want it to be able to live on a shelf for a certain amount of time because that's how you can make a lot of money as opposed to a good amount of money. And so The retort process for the coffee was brutal Every time we get a sample back It just wouldn't be the it would suck And then we were getting closer And we're like fuck it's good But maybe we'll go with it because we want to get going on this

And then we call each other the next day And to our credit We never skimped in the mortar so to speak So the product is amazing For an RTD coffee like canned coffee. It's the best like Glock Cologne. We wanted to be better than a lot of

Cologne, and we are. And so because the coffee is the secret weapon, the actual product, we have really gained some serious momentum. We're in a thousand stores in New York. We've got all these different chains. We're hitting Gelson's in Los Angeles

starting December, like first week of December. And I've had the, I've had the joy of learning a new business, right? I've never really built a business from the ground up. I had a club promoting business, but it wasn't a business. It was three guys on cell phones. And we were very good at it. And we ran LA for a very long time. And it was fun. But I've never really built a business. So part of the journey in the

history of my life is that I really wanted to do something like this. I wanted to build something. So we're in the process of doing it. Sales are through the roof. We couldn't be any happy. we're almost a little weirded out because it's it's going way better than we thought it would and you know I it's I just want to reiterate to people because I think people get very very very hung up on the end when I get to the end it'll be great when I get to the end and we get all it done and I get all the money or I get the girl or I get the job or whatever it is we so focus on the end so much and most of our life has lived in the journey on the way there and so I really am doing everything I can to sort of enjoy the journey because you have to

the end is going to be the end and then the second the end happens is like okay what's next because we're human beings so we're really focused on enjoying the journey doing this together and all in the people that you know the that hire it's just been it's been it's been It's been a blast. And yes, the end will be great. And the treats and the prizes and all that stuff is fun. But that's not why we're here. Like we're here.

I've always, you know, yes, you're where you want to be. Yes, you've got a lot of different ways to grow. That's really beautiful. But when I think about Rob as a podcast, I think about being in that shitty little apartment on Magnolia, right? And you were like trying to run. It was Riverside. sorry

but you're in this small apartment and I'm like what is this fucking guy thinking like what is the how is he seeing any sort like I fucking got dog hair on my cow

like what there's no and just to watch your journey from that to a house with children and it's like it's just it's just been fun watching your journey

it's I don't give a shit about the end but it's a great reminder of you know trying to be present in the moment of doing the things. And it's something that I have to try to remind myself to do. And I'm very fortunate that what I get to do is so fun. And I sometimes when I'm doing things like this and talking to somebody like yourself who is really, it's actually very easy to be present and be here in the

moment, especially when we can't have phones or anything, devices or anything like that. So it is you know, a really fun thing, but it is a great reminder to try to stay present as much as possible. Because we're going to live 99% of our lives in those margins. The 1% is the beginning and the end. Like you got to really just like one plus one this shit every single day and really kind of experience the beauty and the hard and the fall and the down and the good day and the bad day. I didn't get that at and fucking this or and this guy won't come on. And like whatever it is that you got going on. Like, it's, how about this?

Congrats on the book. Thank you. What is the book? And what am I expecting out of this book? Yeah. So the book is a lot of, so, the tribe and I've spoken available. Rob has a book.

By the way, this was not planned. This wasn't a segue. Rob wasn't like, talked, asked me about my book. This is just a very. So the book is really my journey of starting with me as a person who was a broke college student who found this crazy TV show. And that's sort of like a way to get into talking about the first season of the show and what I think is the appeal of Survivor. I talk about all of the greatest moments in Survivor history.

we talk about all of the great heroes and villains and sort of like that Survivor sort of like as Greek mythology talking about like who are all of the gods of Survivor in terms of not quite gods but you know what I mean talking about the, you know, what's the best strategy to play the game, talk about like sort of the evolution of the show and it's really a coffee table book that it's filled with art and it's really, you know, full color and beautiful.

And there's all sorts of things that are inside that I think are going to be really fun for the Survivor fans. And did you have to get signed? You had somebody at CBS had to sign off on all that? You know what, Shane, that's such a, that's such an interesting conversation. Shane, tell me. Who's your best friend in Survivor? Who's my best friend in Survivor?

Of all the survivors, is there one person? Is there one person that I communicate the most with? Yes. About Survivor, it would be you. Wow. You're not my best friend. Wait, hold on a second. What?

No, we're friends. Surrey and I are close. Terry and I are close. Aris and I are close. Yeah. Like close-ish. I wasn't sure if there was, like, somebody who, you have a, like, you know, a particularly close relationship with. I am not particularly close with anybody from Survivor.

I would consider Surrey a friend. I would consider Terry, a friend. I would consider Aris, a friend. I would consider you a friend. I would consider Julie Barry a friend. I would consider there's one more person that I would consider

there's one person that I am not friends with but I would really like to be friends with I would like to read and that's Austin Cardi Oh really? Austin was on my season and he is a pastor in South Carolina and he has sort of

positioned himself as one of the, not a leader, but one of the guys that's really sort of trying to stake a route as a moderate Christian, right? Not that he doesn't, and I don't mean that in a bad, he's just, he's everything that's good about the church and God, if that makes sense. Okay. He's, he's, there is some, you know, when you, you think about the far right or the evangelical or Christianity you think you immediately for me you

and listen I'm not Christian so if you're Christian you're thinking about something else but you're thinking about dogma and you're thinking about excluding people and like not liking gay people and abortion is is and all of those social things that like that Austin really does a phenomenal job of being instead of like this he's really he's calling people in he's inclusive

of it's just really beautiful and cool what he's doing and I think it's super important because I have people in my life that are religious and it has helped them emphatically my mother is religious she's an unbelievable woman

she spends every day trying to think about how she can help her fellow man religion the spiritual the spiritual angle of religion is really beautiful the man-made part where it's trying to control people and exclude people austin's doing a very good job of charting his own path and so i would like to be closer with austin yeah is there some sort of a rift that's preventing that or it's just the distance it's just distance it's distance and him and i have never really reached out to i just about this i don't even need to be friends with him i just really really love what he represents yeah i love what he's doing and thank god we need more we need more austin cardies uh in positions of leadership in the in the in the in the church is what i think yeah

God only knows what that means. Who's your best friend? Who's my best friend? Of any of the survivors, Steven's the person that is like, Steven's like a brother to me. And, you know, for, you know, we don't see eye to eye all the time on everything,

but we've done the podcast together for 12 years. And what I've really come, and he's like a brother to me in that even the things that are like his foibles, I find endearing. because, like, it's like, yeah, that's so Stephen that he does that. And it's just, it's, I'm charmed by even the things about him. Like, his imperfections.

Like, I love him. You love him. That's cool. It's cool to love someone. I know you've got, I know you, I know you, I know that I'm not, I'm a real no new friends kind of guy. You seem to be too, not because you're not a personable, likable, like one-to-have friends guy. It's hard for me to have friends because I work so much.

So a lot of times when, okay, great, works over, I sort of want to, like, not that I'm on and I'm a different person, but I do have to, it's a little draining to, you know, do this type of thing. I know I make it look easy, but, no, it is like, it can be a little bit of a drain. And my wife will also get frustrated with me where, you know, she wants, my wife always wants to have parties. She wants to have, like, invite all these people over for a party. And then after the party... I ain't never been invited. Well, okay. If you're in the area, come on by.

But then after the party's over, I, like, get a report card of, like, oh, all my friends said, your husband doesn't talk. He doesn't do anything. Oh, wow. Why isn't he? And she gets, for the first of her, she's like, oh, if put a microphone in your hands and he's the life of the party, but then. And when the, like, the kids' parents come over, you're not to, but I don't have anything to say.

That, and I'm rich, so relax. This is what rich people do. They don't talk a lot. They just sit in their life. They sit in the corner. They overlook their thing. Did everybody see Big Brother this week? No?

Okay. I've got nothing. What do you think is Survivor 50? Oh, nothing? Okay. You're friends with Jesse, though, right? I love Jesse. Yes.

You guys are close. Yes. Yeah. You know, he lives about, you know, 30 minutes away. And his son is a year older than my oldest son. And my kids worship Jesse's sons. It's weird how circumstance will bring people together for many years. And then the circumstance of your life changes.

And like I got a friend of mine who moved to Brentwood. Yeah. And he might as well be in Idaho. Like I'll never just see the guy again That'll be it Then we were you know We hang and now it's over Like I just you know

It was I had a great friendship with that guy But that's that's it I mean it's just it's interesting how that works out What is the next Rob has a podcast event Live show? Yeah I mean

We'll see we're planning stuff for Survivor 50 right now Maybe maybe something near you So we're done for four I'm not doing any more shows for 49. Got it. Okay, great. And then have you been to the, what is the Survivor Cafe? So in Boston, that there is a place called the greatest bar.

I'm not sure if like in your line of work, if you are familiar with all these other non-L.A. Venues. But the greatest bar is a like four-story sports bar in Boston that once employed one Boston Rob Mariano as a bartender. And the owner of the bar, his daughter, Shannon, was a participant on Survivor this season. She was voted out a couple of weeks ago. But Survivor, they do this thing where they have, they used to call it a beach drop. They've called it like in different cities where they do sort of like a pop-up installation

where you can do the challenges. And this season, they set up a permanent home in Boston, the Survivor Cafe, where you can go there and eat Survivor menu, food, and then play some of the challenges. Got it. Have you been? I have not been there. I was actually at the greatest bar. We did a meetup for Rob's a podcast in the spring. But before it was the Survivor cast. Before it was the Survivor Bar. So I have not been there as it's because. the Survivor Cafe. Okay, so here's the, will Survivor be around in five years?

Yes, I think so. Will Survivor be around in 10 years? I believe so. I think it could look very different, but I think that as a property, I think that it is just something that is going to be, you know, too hard for people to let go of. will the traitors be around in five years yes i mean look hopefully we're all around in five years but you know if we are i'm hoping that these things will uh continue on it's interesting there is that maybe you don't want to answer this but i remember i don't

remember when it was that's why i'm asking but i do remember having a conversation with you and you were and you told you were you said uh oh i got to start branching off into these other shows. Yeah. Because God only knows about the life. Yeah, God only knows. But I would say that I feel like that... But that's not the question.

The question is, is that when you felt Survivor had jumped the shark? No. I don't think... Excuse me. I don't think I ever feel like Survivor had jumped. Certainly not that. I didn't feel like. I think that maybe you could say, oh, in the new era, survivor has jumped the shark.

And I don't think it's impossible for them to change things around and come back. But I think that in the history of Survivor, the history of Survivor, and maybe you could speak to this from your own experience, is that Survivor is always two years away from being canceled all throughout its whole history. I'm sure when you played in Survivor 12 that they were like, well, 16 is going to be probably the end. Right. They said, like, in 16, they're like, okay, we're going to go until 20. I remember going to, you know, watch party in the 20s. And like, oh, yeah, 30 is going to be in. They're going to go to 30.

There's actually, you know, more security for Survivor at this point in time, I feel like than there had ever been in its past. And that's because they've got the budgets down. They've got everything locked in. It's a machine. It makes what it makes. And they're happy to have it. And I think that there's some questions around the sky dance of it all.

and the acquisition of Paramount, we just, I don't think anybody on the outside knows what the new corporate ownership of Paramount, what they want to do. They may say, we love Survivor. Let's do three seasons a year of Survivor. Or they may say like, hey, let's get it down to one. Let's do it on the back lot here in, you know, in L.A.

Right. we you don't you don't know and i i suspect also they may not know are you interviewing all of the people they get voted off yes you are you're still in that and are you doing no at alls or no i haven't seen a know at all you i mean yeah i didn't do it this week because um i was in san francisco but stephen did it with owen got it i just i don't think i've seen it because i'm off twitter yeah So that's where I get my rob. You got to subscribe to the podcast, Shane. How do I do that?

Go to rob as a website.com slash subscribe. We're going to get RHAP.com. Exactly. See, it just flows back and forth. They didn't mean to do that. You got your plug. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Are we done for now? I think so. I think, yeah, this was, I don't know. This was longer than I expected to go. How about for you? Yeah. I mean, I think when we start talking and we haven't talked

a while things come up. I think you're a fascinating person to talk to, and I think that you keep it very real. I never know what you're going to say. And while my sphincter is firmly clenched the entire time, I'm on the edge of my seat. What did you, what's been our best interview? I think the best interview we ever had was the survivor, the funeral part. Yeah, when you came. I mean, it was so raw. And it's so different than, you know, that we could never even do an interview like that now with the current cast. You know, it's very much that sanitized and everything. But that was real emotion and the real, like, conversation about it was so fresh.

Was I out of hand in that? No, I don't think you were out of hand. But you came in and you said this is the last time I'm ever going to talk about Survivor, ever. Right. I was hurting. Yeah. I was so, because I, this is what that meant. for me and then we'll get off i was completely delusional if people want to watch it they can't i was

completely delusional about what i meant to the survivor universe like i thought i was a lock i thought i was an absolute lock so to get that and go oh shit right i i'm not living in any sort of real reality about who i am to the survivor world right because i just, I, I, I, I, I would have bet on me. Well, no, there's probably a few others that would have been like, no, he's a lock. T-bird, right. Why is T-bird never been on? Do, I, I don't know.

Do you rob a bank? I don't think so. I don't know. I can't speak on it. You don't know? I mean, she's never been. I mean, she doesn't know. I mean, if she knew, I think she would tell me.

Isn't like the whole universe, it's like, why is it? I mean, I feel like she's one of the most sought after, got to have her back. Like, why is she not been back on? That is so wild to me. Especially after the reaction for her not getting on, second chance. Yeah. It just, it's crazy. Anyway, all right.

We're done. We're done here. All right. Anything else you want to tell people to check out? No, I'm good. Joey and coffee. It's Jolenecoffee.com, but it's in stores everywhere. If you live in New York, it's there.

And drink it, don't drink it. Tell a friend, don't tell a friend. We're having a blast. Okay. Check it out. All right. Shane Powers. Thank you so much.

Everybody, we got so much more Survivor coming up. Things are heating up. Don't let anybody tell you it jumps the shark. It's about to get good. Yeah. Jeff's Island Funhouse is fucking roaring. Okay. Ripin and roaring.

But in all serious, thanks everybody for checking out this interview. I appreciate it. And thank you, Shane. Take care of everyone, a good one. Bye. Enjoy the journey.