RHAP: We Know Survivor - Shannon Guss Weighs In on Survivor 50 So Far | Survivor Global

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

Shannon Guss Weighs In on Survivor 50 So Far Shannon Guss checks in from maternity leave with Chappell to discuss everything from Survivor 50 so far. The duo talk about the players’ legacies, the big votes, the edit, the twists, Jeff’s major moments and declare a Chissy winner for the season. Survivor Global is back as Survivor 50 enters a pivotal stretch, with Shannon Guss returning from maternity leave to join co-host Chappell for a no-holds-barred analysis of the current state of the game. The two dive right into the aftermath of Christian’s exit, examining how production twists like Blood Moon and Tied Destinies are shaping the game and impacting both players and viewers. Shannon Guss shares why these overpowered twists make it tough to get invested, especially when fan favorites risk being swap-screwed or boxed in by shifting rules. This episode of Survivor Global dishes up honest takes on Survivor 50’s “character season” editing, the surprising effectiveness of the cast, and whether strategy is being suffocated by production’s new-era mechanics. Shannon reflects on standout scenes like Cirie’s triumphant Exile Island return, the heartbreaking exit of major characters, and the rise of underdogs like Rizo. Chappell balances the debate with thoughts on boot order satisfaction and what it means to root for your “case” in the game. Their debate on the season’s quality is anchored by detailed breakdowns of cast performance, the edit’s gender dynamics, and the struggles of returnees navigating unpredictable twists. – Blood Moon’s triple swap-screw and the disrespect to Survivor icons like Colby – Cirie’s masterful social game, bouncing between alliances while never becoming a target – Christian’s forced self-vote and why losing agency makes twists frustrating for fans – Rizo’s journey from overlooked to superfan standout among returnees – The evolving “Deal or No Deal” landscape as jury cases and favorites are knocked off the board Will a legend finally break through and win, or are production’s unpredictable twists destined to throw the game into chaos? Can anyone outmaneuver Cirie, or will another fan favorite fall victim to a production shake-up? Tune in to hear Shannon Guss and Chappell dissect the latest Survivor 50 moves, emotional exits, and strategic showdowns! 0:00 Shannon Returns 4:02 Blood Moon Twist Sparks Controversy 7:22 Survivor Legends Eliminated By Twists 13:25 Dynamic Cast Exceeds Expectations 22:35 Cirie’s Exile Triumph and Episode Eight 29:46 Is This Cirie’s Best Game Ever? 36:00 Christian’s Blindside and Painful Exit 50:07 Debating Mike White Versus Emily Move 56:56 Rizo’s Surprising Impact and Legacy 1:04:34 Ozzy and New School Players Rise 1:13:32 Rizo’s Jury Odds and Social Game 1:26:34 Returning Player Baggage and Redemption 1:33:05 Fan-Voted Twists Face Scrutiny 1:36:39 Billie Eilish Idol Flop Explained 1:43:14 Jeff Probst Competes in Challenges 1:49:59 Final Thoughts To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH: Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT: Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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Hello everyone and welcome to our HIV's coverage of Survivor for Survivor Global and a special podcast I'm your host Shannon Gus here to weigh in on Survivor 50 how many episodes are we in? I should know. Nine? I'm going to get nine.

If you've seen it, Christian just went home. I hope you've seen it. So I'm here to weigh in for the first time on Survivor 50 after being on maternity leave. I have many, many thoughts. I'm going to look back at the season at Lodge to where we are now and to talk about it.

I have a wonderful co-host who I always love talking about Survivor with. It is Chappelle. Shubal, thank you for being here. Oh, thank you for having me, Shannon. I'm very happy to have you back on the mic talking about this show. we just wrapped our coverage of Survivor AU and that was so much fun. I loved hearing you talk with the mic

and so I was extremely jealous that we had not got your opinions about this season of Survivor US and so I am happy that I am the chosen recap uncle to be able to hear and break everything down with you and get your opinions about some of the things that have been going on. Yeah, I mean look, AU was fantastic for anyone who hasn't watched the latest season of Australian Survivor, it was really, really good.

It was, I won't spoil AU, but in many ways like so opposite to what it's happening here. I feel like this is like the character season, but the strategy is very limited, whereas like the strategy in that season was phenomenal. I mean, what's happening in 50, we can talk about it.

Like, it's not that interesting strategically to me. Like, I think probably the most interesting vote in this season of 50. Now I'm coming in already as Debbie Downup, but like probably doesn't crack the top 10 of the interesting AU votes that we had. So I wanted to prioritize AU, obviously like that's my beat.

I was listening to you guys and we did some check-ins there. But now that that's over, here to talk about 50. And I will come in. Okay, look, I don't want to find fully as Debbie Downer. We're going to talk about the good and the bad, but this podcast, Genesis, Chappelle,

a couple of days ago, I texted you and I said, I think I'm ready to call it. I think 50 is bad. And we talked about it a bit. We were chatting about it. And then we're like, maybe we should talk about this on the podcast. So we're here to talk about the twist,

the big moments, the characters, but maybe we can try to convince each other about where this season is at. Yeah, the overarching question is, is this season good or bad, right? It's a very binary question. You know, obviously there's a lot of nuance to it. And hopefully y'all fill our comment section with, you know, your opinions about, you know, the nuance of this.

You know, because we're going to try to narrow this down to yes or no. And I think that the question is good. But Shannon and I are very obviously on opposite ends of this. And I think that we kind of landed on, you know, it depends on what you're looking for in a season and the twist, in characters and strategy. But for me, it's the boot order, Shannon. the boot order has to serve me for me to enjoy a season of Survivor a lot of times. And I personally, with, you know, recent events notwithstanding, I've been very happy with the boot order this season.

And to see, you know, my fave and yours and a lot of the people listening to this Favis, so we kind of at the center of making a lot of this stuff happen, I've been very much enjoying this season. I think, like the boot order is part of it, but it's actually not all part of it. because when we came in and we saw this cast for 50, like I was pretty critical of it. I think that the cast has exceeded my expectations. Like everyone's kind of there to do something interesting.

Like they're really giving it their all. And the boot order is not amazing for me and we'll talk about it. But it's not just that. Like for me, it really is how overproduced the season is. And I think what it was was like, firstly, the tough thing with 50 is like it's never mid.

Like it's either incredible or not or terrible. And there's no middle ground. and the stakes are so, so high because it's doing this with returnings that you care about. So there's that aspect. And then I think, like, I was enjoying it so much. Like, episode two of this season, like, gave me life.

I watched that episode, the day I came home from the hospital from having my baby, and it was the best part of my week. No. Me, it was up there. It was really, that episode was so, like, and that I was really enjoying it. And I am still enjoying huge parts of it. Like, last week alone,

that scene where Saria comes back from Exile Island, I watched that too many times to count. Like that scene alone gives me life. Like watching Surrey every week gives me life. Like so much more these characters are doing, which we talk about, are amazing. But I think something in my soul died, the night of the blood moon. Because in all honesty, like Camilla and Colby and Genevieve, none of them were like hugely my rooting interest. Like, of course I'm like always going to rooting for Genevieve.

She's like, but she wasn't like my top person. And Camilla, I wish the best for Camilla. Interesting in like a new era second chance. I didn't kind of need a Cio back immediately on this, especially not with like 3, 48ers. And Colby, like, actually, Kobe exceeded my expectations on the season, but I, like,

I was actually harsher on casting him, um, to begin with. Um, so, like, it wasn't that it screwed over the three of them, but it was that anyone could be disrespected to that level of, like, overproduced bad TV. There's nothing they can do. They get completely swapped through all of them. Their hands are tied behind their back and they just shot like fish in a barrel.

And I thought, it's not it didn't have it could have been so much worse it could have happened to surrey and in the future it will and it stopped me for being as invested because I'm like at a point this will come for my faves and with christian in we can talk about it it kind of did and it's painful to watch and i think once a blood moon happened like something inside me shifted that i've never been able to get past in the season because i know what they're doing and it's hard to trust it's really hard to trust a season that's making this many bad decisions and it's almost getting lucky with the good stuff and that's all cost-based.

Yeah, the editing has been very weird. People talk about how it's unbalanced and very clearly it is, especially at the, at the, you know, I guess the detriment to the women mostly. And so with the Blood Moon, we losing two of the women in this season,

it does feel like their story wasn't really explored too much because they were going to go out like this, especially Camilla, right? I think Genevieve had a little bit more of a story because she did find an idols that she could not use, which is crazy that she had to give them away and that the one person who does need them is the person who has to give all of hers

away. So yeah, I think that that's very disappointing when watching. But like to me the twist itself, like yeah, it would have swapped through basically anybody. You know, it could have been anybody. And it just like, it's almost like the roulette will start, like landed on those three people. And now of a sudden, they're just out of the game. Like you said, Kobe gets a little bit more of a glowing kind of edit. I guess for Kobe, the bar was already in hell. But yeah, for Genevieve and Camilla, it does feel like we were robbed of seeing some of the magic that made them want to get put back on the show as well. But I didn't really, I didn't take the blood move as hard. But to your point, had it been one of my faves, my big rooting interest, oh, I would have been devastated. Exactly. But that's the thing. And then I see people so much, it's like, people just don't like when their favorites get screwed. I'm like, none of the people were technically like my favorites. And I don't like that. But the thing is actually like none of them deserved. It was just so disrespectful. It felt so disrespectful to Colby. I'm like, this is like a Mount Rushmore name. Like if you were, if you were to quiz a casual because my dad, the first person he says, the guy who's on curb your enthusiasm, like Colby is up there more than a Tony and Asandra for the real casuals, you know,

like Colby Hatch and Johnny Fairplay in Boston Rob, yeah, like probably. And this man is doing better than we thought he was. Like he's something apparently he's like the head of the snake and I actually like he was trying to like wield that power a little bit. I was like, okay, Colby, like we didn't get to see it because it didn't matter because he's going to get screwed. So we'll talk about the boot order, but this was something on A.U.

Where we felt like, you know, you have favorites and maybe they do it to themselves. And then it's like, it's sad, but it's earned. And part of Survivor is being hurt by Survivor. I've said it so many times this year, I can handle it. You know, I'm not going to love a season where the boot order is worse and we left for the worst cast. But if they do it to themselves, I can handle it. But I don't want the show to do it to them.

I don't want to feel like people have no room to move. I end up feeling so sad about it. Probably doesn't even have a shot on the dark, which is kind of a funny thing to put in the same sentence, given the different eras of those things are from. And then I felt that with Christian this week is I was like, once they didn't let him bluff, He's just standing there getting pants by Jonathan.

Like, you know, he's like putting his head in a toilet while his has a tie behind his back. And I just, I don't think that's great TV. And we can talk about it. But I think a lot of the twists are so limiting. And the format of the new era with the smaller votes and everything like is so limiting. And it just doesn't give the scope for someone like a Christian or Devon who are trying to be really creative and innovative. And this cast is trying to be really creative and innovative. And there's no space for that in what they're doing.

So that, like, that's what is killing me with production, I think. Yeah, I think that, you know, Terrans made this point on Big Brother before, too, that a lot of times the twist don't enhance the game. They just kind of limit the gameplay. They make people play a lot tighter. Everything's a lot less interesting when the twists are driving the game. And in these moments, you kind of question, like you said, it's very disrespectful. You question why you would bring back these legendary players to put them in situations that don't allow them to do the things that they're legendary for, right? these like you give them more space to get more votes to rally more people give them chances to play

a social game a political game a strategic game even a even a physical game but when you're limiting them to like all right let's put you back on tiny tiny tribes it's like that doesn't give anybody any wiggle room to work any magic that don't get wrong some people are able to for sure but if I'm a legend of the game yeah yeah but if I'm a legend of the game like don't don't bring me back so where the I feel like I couldn't even leave it all out there you know I could and give it my awe because I was limited by the parameters that you set forward. So I totally agree with that. But like I said, the blood moon to me, I think it probably would hit harder for sure.

Like I'm not trying to be a hypocrite. Like I completely acknowledge my bias that it would hit harder if it was somebody that I did not really want to see go or that I was really rooting for. But at the same time, it was so ho-hum, you know, like it was supposed to be this big thing and it ended up being a lot of more. Right. And it was just three swapswifers. screws uh described as a big twist it was actually not that historic at all it was just it wasn't

even like something it was just it was just three swap screws in one episode which and the thing you say it like it obviously stifles gameplay and i feel like so many of these twists firstly like really make people rely on pre-gaming like you should be pre-gaming if they're going to quote unquote merge you and then the next day have you in tiny little tribes of people you barely know and the billy island Bumrackle also did that with the pre-gaming. Like you would think that like, okay, you need to have these connections on the other side.

So it's like, why are we really encouraging the pre-gaming? And yeah, it's Seifles gameplay because you want to be more conservative, but you also want to be like really congenial. Like when you see Camilla, she did like one vote that left out a couple of people, which you should be able to do on Survivor.

You know, like it obviously like being congenial is like, you're having a comprehensive social game. Like that's a virtue, of course. But the show shouldn't want that. The show should want the people like that was some of the best stuff. like D and Jonathan fighting like they should want the drama. It should want these big votes with people.

If you have two sides and these lines and people are left out, the show should want that. But it does not at all encourage that because what the players should be doing is, you know, having only friends, never having any enemies. Like Genevieve have like one ops. And like, sure,

you can go for one offs. They might have an idol, whatever it is. But like you can't, you can't just have like one negative person because it's not even a series of decisions that will lead to you going out. What will happen is like if you just pull a rock with that person, that's enough.

You can't have any, you can't, shouldn't leave anyone out of votes. Who knows if they just have the numbers next time? You shouldn't have one person who you're against because they could have all the power next time and it's not even going to be, okay, well, then did you blindside them wrong or whatever? Like a series of decisions that could lead to your demise. It could literally be one negative relationship and a rock draw. So everyone should just be friends with each other. And I don't know that the show knows that that's what it's encouraging.

So, so many questions. Did I expect to come on and for 12 minutes just random? Yeah, kind of I did. Yeah, that was the point. We came here to vibe. We came here to vibe. But I will say this, again, I'm not so mad at the season as a whole. Because you're right, we were all critical of the cast.

But it wasn't that we were critical of the people on the cast. All these people have been good TV in their own right to whatever you want, whatever you look for in a survivor player, right? There are people on here who are known for drama. There are people on here who won their season. There are people on here who are known for chaos. You know, we got all into the spectrum on this cast. It's just it wasn't a.

cohesive cast. But seeing them on the island together has been very fun. You know, this idea that Ceree's top two alliance members are Ozzy, somebody she's known her whole life and Rizzo, somebody who she's never seen play Survivor before ever. You know, like to me that's very interesting and

I've been enjoying, you know, what it looks like when we have one of the most ambitious crossover events in Survivor history. Yeah, I mean, look, the character movements have surprised me. Like, did I think I needed like the South Pacific Redux? No. Like, no one part of me as a survivor fan for any moment was like, where, where would I go with Coach and

Ozzy? Like, these two captains that came in and I loved it. Like, I was loving so much of that stuff. People again, I was critical of them casting. Like, again, Colby, we didn't see it, but like, he was trying to play this new era game. And apparently doing well at it. Like, coach and your mileage may very own coach. I actually like enjoy coach. Like, I'm the kind of person who's, I don't want to be as harsh from people who are just trying to make TV. You know, it's up to the editors if they want to put that in. And obviously, like some of it hits more than others. But like a lot of the stick for coach actually does hit for me.

I acknowledge she's trying to make TV on a TV show. I think there are worse crimes. And also like the best part of coach is like he has no idea what actually makes him the most entertaining. Like obviously he came in in the preseason interview. It's like, coach is quite self-aware now. Like you might have a chance.

And immediately is immediately like crying about how Ozzie says he doesn't have integrity. It's like, oh, you can't help being who you are. There's such a wonder, like, you know, either people change or quickly change back. Like, can't change the spots and coach cannot either. that's so entertaining. So like these characters, a lot of the time, I think I'm enjoying a lot more than I thought. But I will say it's still a disparate cast. Boot order still matters in these returning seasons. I think anytime you have a returning season, that's not like pretty much, like, here's versus zones is great. But like, you got to keep it, I think, like, tight on theme. Like second chances is great because it's, it's not disparate.

Like it's one time, as we know. And I think that if you have the whole scope of the season, like multi-time players and like, obviously you're going to care more about people you've known, maybe possibly for decades or, you know, you've played multiple times. Like you put investment into these disparate casts. And then the boot order matters. And we were talking about this. My brother came up with this thing where he was like, I feel like where we're at is we currently have like our top, like where we were at as fans, my brother and I.

And everyone's going to be different on this. But like we have our top two cases and do or no deal. We have serene Christian at the time. And then we've lost like a lot of cases. And now we have like a lot of bottom cases still in the game. And that is true for me. And it makes me upset that I haven't. been ordering all returny pass as do and no deal cases. In the future, I'm going to be doing

this because it really, I think it helps me track where I'm at. But at the moment, I'm all in on my million on the case. Like, I have Surrey there. I have the banker calling being like, will you take a Rick Devons win? Right. I don't like, should, and deal or no deal. Like, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, and that's, but I've lost a lot of my top cases, so that's going to, like, that's going to impact how people feel about the season. Right. And you and I famously, we disagree about winners at war as far as how good that season is. And I, like, you are a pro-winners-at-war person,

and I am very anti. Like, it is a season of television. I do not see myself watching again. And, you know, there are Survivor seasons that are way worse than Winners at War that I have actually watched again. And I'm like, it's been several years. And I've yet to go back and, like,

go through Winters at War and be like, let me see if I can find the joy in this. But it's largely because of the boot order. It is all of my deal or no-deal cases just fallen. like just dropping like flies for I want to say at least six episodes in a row I was losing top cases and then I'm left with the Ben Dreebergin case the the Nick Wilson case the Denise case and I'm just like what am I going to do with these damn cases and then the Tony case was that was that

was that a good deal in the end the Tony case was like the best possible deal no it wasn't to me honestly the Natalie Anderson case I would have taken the Natalie Anderson case you know um maybe it's worth a little bit less money. Right. But that's the thing too. All of my cases were over there sitting on the edge. And as a as a diehard fan of this show, it's so, it's so hard for me to be like, okay, but like, what if one of my good cases comes back? And then we just like steal the season. I don't even know. That's great deal on Odeal. So. Exactly. But that's the edge of extinction, right? Like, that's the whole point. And so yeah.

So you can get my million kid dollar case back? Like, what do we? And I could just have it. And I could just have it. Imagine the outrage. Imagine the outrage. If they allowed to do that, it would fundamentally break the show. right well I mean we which we did during the edge of extinction like we've literally these conversations before right and so I couldn't even put my heart behind okay I'm I'm supportive of something like that happening right like the idea that Tyson came back it was like the silver line was like wait it's like I'm like wiping tears from I was like wait Tyson can win this and then I like oh no you can you know like it got to the point where I didn't

even know what I was rooting for anymore so all my cases were gone my big cases were going and so I really did not enjoy a large portion of that season here I love these cases. I love these cases. We got the Surrey case. You know, that's the billion dollar case. God doesn't allow me to have nice things. And so that billion dollar case.

Right. Like that's, that case so big that they don't even bring it out. That's like the secret bonus case that you don't even know exists. It just to me, it's so. That bank props to show like that, like what actually happened. Yeah. That's David. That's David destroying Dundee.

Right. Like, if you get the Surrey case, like, what do we do next season? How do we do next season? That's why I'm not taking the deal because I'm like, yeah, that's still out there. I got to take it. I got to take the deal. But then, of course, like, I am a big Aubrey fan, been enjoying her. What do you think about Aubrey's story throughout this season so far?

I, like, I defended Aubrey, like, that she should have won her wrong with my dying breath. And, like, I still think that that's, like, a really good example of, like, crazy juries. It's nothing against Michelle. It's against Scott and Jason. You trust them to make the right decision. Right. So I've always been, like, a huge Aubrey. fan. She's been like pretty dour on the season.

Like I'm, you know, people can like feel their emotions, but wasn't she crying when they like brought out Zach Brown? Like, what is happening? Aubrey? Like, I feel like she's not having fun and I'm not having that much fun watching her. Although that one little clip where she and coach is dancing is one of the best parts of the season. So, I mean,

like, I didn't know that I needed to see Aubrey again and I don't think she's changed like right now. Because again, Aubrey's come back every single time that's been available to her since she played in Khorong. And she hasn't changed my mind on that. So she's not like a high case for me. And you're not the tough thing about the deal and O'Dill version of Survivor. You can see what the cases are when they're debating between it. Like episode three,

you've got like my top three case in Q versus like Stephanie. And it's like, okay, what are like, what choice will you make? And everyone in that are lies that went down. It's like, you know that Stephanie's right there. Like, so for my personal case, right there. Right there. Every time. It's like, damn it, you've taken a really good case for me. And there was another case. And that's just unfortunate. And when I lost my Christian case, my number two case. Now I'm all in on three. I lost a lot of good cases in a row.

Like I feel like for my boot or what there was like, so Q was like the beginning of the entity. I was heartbroken. And then we lost like Mike White and Angelina and Charlie. Like those are like four of my top six cases probably. And at that point I'm like, well, the board's looking pretty bad. Compared to winners at war,

winners of war, obviously we lost a lot of the legends early. There were a lot of legends to choose from though, right? It would be hard to swing and miss at a legend. I think the winners of war cast is a lot better than this cast generally. Like, you know, and we were left with a lot of the bottom cases at the end. I mean, maybe higher on someone like Denise and you are. But, again, obviously I'm way higher on Tony. Like, Tony was my David.

This will break Dondy case. It was impossible, like that Tony was going undrafted. And like, as a huge Tony fan, like, it was a fever dream. He was my sorry case. He was my, like, David case. And he won. And I got the best possible deal. And I had Jeremy who was like, maybe.

my second case, me and Sandra's there, Pavi's there, but like, possibly top two, and they were tearing it up. And, like, I was pretty good with my top two cases. I wasn't as low on it as you, but this brings me to now. So, like, if Surrey pulls a Tonyan wins, the season is different, obviously. Like, obviously, if Surrey wins, I mean, anything was, anything was worth it. I've been saying for ages, they should be doing a bad redemption island type season for Surrey to win for ages. Fields versus the field. It should be Surrey, possibly some of the field family. We can play. I definitely play. Yeah, I am, yeah.

We could get Izzy, we could get Lisa, we could get Ozzie and Rizzo apparently. We could get all of these people, and we could have a field and they could be against the field. We could just find the dumbest morons ever. She doesn't even need it, to be honest. Everyone's a moron compared to three.

But for her to get her win, a redemption, like whatever, like anything would be worth it, obviously. For my top case, like, I hate to be results oriented, but that would hugely change the season. It would also change, like, these twists for me, even though it's not as enjoyable week to week

like if Surrey wins, God damn has she earned it she's, you know, like, Blood Moon, like she had the extra vote. She was good with everyone. Like she actually can never go then. Like she's beyond the twist. And that Tony was as well. Like there were dumb twists of winners at war.

And Tony beat the twist. Like someone didn't come off the edge and went. Like he beat the edge. That's how well he did. He beat extortion. So he kind of minimized the negatives of that season. Soree would do the same thing. Like obviously that would change if I got my billion dollar case.

However, I refuse to believe she fell. I refuse to believe that she'd. winning. She's not, it's not, it's not, I will not be hurt by this stupid show again. I will not be there like, like, you know, what seven times more shame on me at a point? Like, I can't, I'm not letting the show hurt me again. I have to remain positive because, uh, in episode eight of this season, the double the fun, double the demise episode. Shannon, that's arguably the best episode of Surrey on Survivor ever.

You think better than the Eric episode? Yeah, because that was an ensemble cast. that was, you know, that was partly Natalie. That was the part of, you know, like it was Amanda doing her thing. We all know. Real ones know, okay, who was the mastermind behind that. But it was very much spread across. Yeah, yeah, it was spread across the table for everybody to get some bites.

Episode 8 was the Serri show, the Serena's aunt, as I've been calling it. She goes away to Exile Island someplace that she. Yeah. So she went away to Exile Island, a place that she has been multiple times. So I was like, okay, she can do this. She's done exiled. You know, I'm walking with her all through this journey. She gets there.

They got 2,000 coconuts. The fact that they even took the time to put 2,000 coconuts on that beach is actually crazy. I was so disrespectful, by the way. I was like, how much he's been through? You give her the, I mean, they were closing up on it a lot. So they would kind of, you would think, it's like, it's this one. But, yeah, no need to relook through coconuts. What are you doing?

Right. And while this is happening, yeah. Her strategic ally, Ozzy, has now taken the reins of their game. And he is like, we're about to do with something that's really bad for us. Let's do that. And they're like seemingly everybody's kind of on board for it. Surrey wins immunity. That's what I've been calling this episode.

Because as far as I was concerned, she did. She was immune and she won a challenge, you know, individually. So in my mind, this was an individual immunity challenge. You can't make me change my mind. She does, she does find the coconut here. And then she comes back and she completely alters the course of the game. We are giving it that this is the surre move. She comes in, looks around and says, no, we're not doing that.

And everybody's like, you're right. We're not doing that. And we even get Ozzy and confessional being like, who am I to have strategy when serri is the strategy? What was I do? No, I was like his loaders permit. You know what I mean? Like he wasn't allowed to like get in the car without the chaperone yet.

and unfortunately, like, he was gone. So he's, like, trying to drive, and he's, like, hitting some mailboxes. He's crying, tears and eyes. Yeah. He's not ready for this. I'm not ready for this. Now, Ozzy has been playing the game for decades. One season after Sarriese started.

He's still on the learner's permit, Ozzy. I think Ozzy's like my Winnipeg, by the way, but I still think. I love him. No, I definitely enjoy him a lot more when he has a surreepum course. He's like, yeah, I can find the cases a little bit. But, yeah. Look, the scene, as I said, which she comes back from exile, I have watched multiple times. It's so good.

It's so good. She comes back and literally it says, Therese back, yay! And then everyone's like, yay! Like, everyone's like, it's actually comical. It's actually like the, the, um, everyone should be saying, where's Pucci when Pucci's not on screen?

Obviously, like it's so good. And they all have like identical confessions. Christian's like, thank God, series back. I was like, thank God, Therry's back. I've been hitting all these mailboxes. And then Aubrey's like, thank God, Cary is back. And then she's also talking to Chrissy,

like she's so good across the aisle. Here's the thing with Cary. Firstly, I said to Peter last week, I'm like, I think I'm underrating Ceri. He's like, I'm sure that's not true. I think so. I think you have to give her more. I think so, too.

I think I agree. I think she's better because the other thing about her, she makes it look too easy. Uh-huh. And then people don't recognize it. Like, because she's pendulum strategy in across three different alliances. I shook out D, shook out in the blood maroon, shook out the On Integrity Alliance.

She's now taking out Christian, not being targeted as the center of everything. Like, it's really hard to pendulum swing because you're voting out people, obviously, in an alliance, you have to go back and work with that alliance. And there are two ways until now to do that. One, badly. You know, you think about Woolwell, like, I'll just do that. You know, the thing that actually Rob says, you know, invented. No, it's really hard to do that.

Like, people have tried and failed because it's, like a very high level of strategy. Then you talk about the people who are doing it well, like Rob as an example, like Tony did in Kagayan. and it's done very well, but it's really obvious. Like, this person is swinging back and forth. Like, Surrey isn't swinging. She's floating like a butterfly for real. Like, this is the fact that when you watch it on screen, I don't think people are even noticing what she's doing.

It's so seamless and so intuitive and so subtle, so implicit, that I think that if you need kind of explicit strategy explained to you, then, like, you might struggle to see it. That's how perfectly seamless it is. Like, is this her best game ever? Such an interest, that's such an interesting question. And the bar is in, is in space. Like, obviously, we're comparing this to like Micronesia.

And that has like flash. And we still have a few weeks left, obviously. Like, Micronesia, to me, like, she pretty much won that season. Let's be quite honest. She made it to the final three. What's kind of is? Yeah, let's see. She kind of won.

And with Micronesia, like, obviously, it has the Eric movement. It has the Aussie movement. It has this flash. This is so individual. and everyone is so much below her, I think. You know, like the next two people for me are like the Aussies and the Rizzo's who she's like leading. Yeah.

So I just, I think maybe it is her best game. Is it a best game of reality TV? Could we compare her to like a Traders? The Traders were perfect? Perfect. I don't know. Traders like, I mean, no notes on this so far. And Traders is perfect.

So I, that's a really tough question. But like the fact that we've been having this conversation, like this woman, she was born to played this game and thank God she's played it so many times because what a waste if she'd never found survival we'd be you know it'd be like having I don't know yeah like you never get to Michael Jordan you never get messy yeah you never get these people who are at the top yeah exactly no Beyonce ever exists exactly you know you can't and then it's like

how can we have missed that how can we miss out on something like that this is how she played big brother though you know it was like her she was the power structure of the house it was wherever seri is going that's what we're doing and she used to do that multiple times a day. And Big Brother's just such a long drag. I mean, Shannon, you even watched that season. And it was like, okay,

what do Sarree and Izzy want to do today? What does Sarri, Izzy and Jared want to do? Okay, well, this is where Sarri wants to go. Now, here are the people she wants to work with. Okay, here are the people she doesn't work and work with. Oh, wait, it's only Monday. She has to do this all the way into Eviction Night on Thursday. And then she has to do it again. And we saw this woman

work and work and work. But to see it kind of happening in an accelerated pace on Survivor. It is very impressive. And I just, like I said, maybe this isn't her best game. I think it's too early to tell. But as far as best episode, you cannot tell me there is not a more seri-centric episode with such a positive outline as the, as episode eight, double the fun, double the demise. Like even the three-to-one vote is not a surrey episode.

That's a, that's a series strategic like, like, you know, like Masterstroke. But it wasn't the serri in a nutshell episode. This is the serri. If you want to show who serri is, as a survivor player, you show her this. well I think we could get more and this is why I'm saying I don't think that Surrey's going to win like I don't think she has a winner edit I think that people confuse the winner edit

I don't know it's hard for me because I'm trying not to get hurt like obviously like I don't trust the show so I don't trust that she's not going to get screwed over in some incredibly stupid way by some sort of advantage get in that is sponsored by some sort of celebrity that is so irritating to me that I don't want to open my heart but I'm like

I don't think this is a winner edit I think Surrey is incredible I think we should be see more of this. This is what I'm saying is like, is it a winner edit just because everyone's like, thank God, sorry is here? Or is every person in confessional saying, thank God, serri is here. That's the storyline. They got to show it. Like, she's incredible. She doesn't have that many confessions. My brother sent me the time confessions today. And she has now the most, like the second most in the game, but there's like a few around that 10 minute mark. I mean, as someone dominating to win like this, like I would think would get even more,

but we can talk about it the way they, actually, I didn't even think to talk about the edit of the women. We can't talk about that. Yeah, the way they might edit like a woman. dominating compared to like a Boston Rob would be probably be quite different. I don't think this is her winner at it. Like I think this is Ceres incredible. I think he's yeah about to be like screwed by a twist. It's so

so stupid we can't even imagine what it is. Like I'd hate to try and brainstorm it with you. We could never come up. Oh, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. No, no. Because Mr. Beast is showing up next, uh, this week and we don't even know what the super beware, super beware advantage with the beast face on it is going to mean. I don't want to talk about that. But I, yeah, I was,

He's been against my will, by the way. I've never sought out any information about Jimmy, and yet here we are him in my life. That's it. I think this edit is probably more akin to Sophie Clark and when it's at war. You know, like, Sophie does not win, and she's not, but like there were definitely moments where I was like, is Sophie the greatest player of all time?

You know, I was like, is Sophie, that girl? And of course, Sophie is, right? But we saw a very different side of her in South Pacific, right? A very specific, well-thought-out strategy that worked. She stuck to her plan. executed it. She won. But seeing her in Winters at War exact so much control over the

social dynamics of the group and just like being the epicenter of all the things that were going on. Tony had to get Sophie out of the mix in order to run the game. And it was a credible move, right? It was the best move of the season for sure. One of one, it's up there, right?

But it has to happen because Sophie was about to run this game like the Navy. And I think that Surrey is getting that similar at it. Like we cannot allow her to win because that would be not seri-like. You know, like the lore of the idea of Surrey is like even bolstered by the idea

that she just cannot win. But at the same time, it feels like we have to give this lady her flowers because look at the material. We have so much concrete evidence of the things that she's doing. This isn't just like the show Frank Biden, a bunch of people

saying nice things about Sarie. No, this is you cut to whoever and having people being like, no, I love her. No, I love her every time. I edit that out. Yeah. You have to give us the content, you know. Content about those hard eyes.

Like, that's what it is. You can't. That's just how we're walking around. And so, yeah, so I'm very happy that we got that much. But I have to ask you about your second case, Shannon. Oh, wait, but I have more on Surrey. Oh, of course. Well, how can we just do this?

Yeah. There's a couple of things that irritate me, which is the tagline of this podcast, by the way. One, and people are like, well, they're just keeping her in because they know she can't win at the end. firstly, or she can't get to the end. Firstly, she did get to the end. She did get to the end. Technically, like, she would have got to the end, like, multiple times. Like, even in Panama, she's pretty much at the end.

Like, in Micronesia, she got to the final three. They all thought they were getting breakfast. I can't have this. She never, she got there, okay? The game changed. That's like, if you're running a hundred meter race, really short race, and then you get there, and then the finish line is accidentally 10 meters further.

That's not the race she was running. She made it to the end. Secondly, it doesn't matter if she can't get to the end quote unquote she did, though. But it doesn't matter because she's screwing you now. Like that's right. Like this was like, like, oh, well, she can't. Even like with people like Rizzo as an example or whatever, it's like they can't win at the end. I always think or like Xander was a good on.

It's like, well, he might screw you over because he's going to win challenges. Like Switzerland. And Jenna was right, by the way. Like Justice for Jenna. She was right. Yes, because it doesn't matter if you feel like, well, it just takes three out at five or at five or at fire or whatever. We can talk about it. That's not how this works.

I bet a lot of people regret it now because Christian, you know, I mean, I don't know if he regrets it. I mean, he made mistakes, like obviously telling her about Ozzy, but like she outplayed him. She will outplay all of you. It's about being outplayed. It's like even if someone else beat so you might lose. If you end up on the wrong side of her, which Christian did like momentarily hit you to his own mistake, she will outplay you. Like, why take the risk? So I can't take that like, well, we can beat her at the end.

It's like, you might not get to the end because she's that good. Another thing I wanted to say about Surrey, it hurts my heart. because I had a baby. Not that part. That was good. But I couldn't cover the season. So there's been no chizzy. And Surrey probably almost definitely would have won the chizzy.

Should we just, did she win? I think you have to. I cannot sign it before we said to. I can tell you I would have been giving her points. Like should we be giving her the Chizzy mug? Did she kind of win? Does she kind of win in the background?

She's getting points in a lot of episodes, right? Like so there's no world where she doesn't agree. last week three. Blood Moon three. Because I thought like Blood Moon, like she's like the one person who's never going to go even on the Rock floor.

That to me is three. DeVote, I don't know. The Premier. I don't know. Deprived. The Premier actually, I actually would have given three points to Kyle. I would have given a point to Surrey.

You know, I would have given points. In those early votes, I'm giving you, yeah, we can know about Kyle. I actually would even, that was what Kyle did in that premiere

was one of the most impressive things I've ever seen. Yeah. But yeah, no, she's getting, she's getting like a, she's getting a lot of points. I think so we probably won the chisbee. Like, so we should send her a mug?

We should send her a mug. We should wait for the season to end. But then we should send her a mug. She won the jivis. Yeah. So from the fields is to Mama Fields. Yeah. I agree.

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SUVW, German-engineered for all. But I do want to talk about, I do want to talk about your second case. Okay, I do that now. Because I know that you and I were both emotionally invested in Ceree's success, as you should be. But I think you and I both. pretty high on our emotional investment into Christian specifically. Like I am a Christian fan, but I am a fan of Christian as a human and also a survivor player,

a second. You know, like that's almost second. So he comes in and I'm very happy to see him in this position. Christian is a one time player. He was a legend to me as far as survivor goes, right? Like he dominated that season as far as like screen time and confessional. Like he was such a big star in that season. But at the same time, like he gave us so much. He's good. He's good in confessionals. he's good at challenges, he's good at the strategy, he's very social. I mean, like, this is what you're looking for in a survivor player.

Like if you build one, you know, they used to say, oh, Kobe was like built in the survivor factory because it was like the archetype for what you thought would do well in Survivor. This is like charismatic pretty man who can win challenges. And we learn so much, like so many seasons in that that's not. That's actually not what you're looking for in a survivor. You're looking for somebody who can do a lot of things really well, right? And the things that they can do, they like excel at them and exceed expectations

and Christian does that in so many different ways. I've been so much enjoying Christian at the very beginning of the season. And then we got kind of quieter around the merge. And I started to think, oh, no, it's coming. And then once I was able to kind of look at the alliance structure, you know how he's in the middle, even though it's really the bottom, I was like, oh, okay, it doesn't look great. Rick Devin's has a fake idol.

And so I started to speculate. I was like, is this the weak Christian goes? But Shannon, I cannot stress enough how I hated. hated the way Christian goes home. Even if bad, then you feel bad. This episode was the worst episode of the season. I hated it so much. I was not having fun at all.

This was not it. This was not it. This was Rob and Ian getting killed out of the traitors within the first, you know, two weeks of the show this season. Like, that's how I felt like my heart, Shannon. So, yeah, how did, how was this from your perspective? I mean, yeah. I, again, I did put me under the line of like, I think the season might be bad.

Christian, you know, I wanted him to make his own mistakes. If he goes, and in ways he did, because he goes to Surrey and tells her Ozzy, and he admitted that was obviously a huge mistake. Like, he did it to himself and I'm heartbroken to lose him, but he did it to himself, you know, and that's the agency we give people on Survivor. But voting against yourself is against the core tenets of Survivor. Like, I'm against that anyway, but it was that. they didn't let him bluff.

Watching him come back and have to read a note and not have anywhere to move. Again, it was the same as the blood moon where I felt that they tied up these people with their hand behind their back and just punched them in the face repeatedly. And I don't like seeing it happen especially to Christian. Because my thing is like, if there's no journey, Christian seems like he was going, if there's no journey. And we don't know. But, you know, definitely they were like targeting that nerd alliance.

So it didn't look great. and he seems like he could have been the target. Obviously, he does, it, it's immense it when, like, he comes back and reads the note. But if he goes on the journey knowing he's in trouble and what he should be afforded, the very least is the bluff. To come back and be like, I have nothing. And then they're like, I don't know. Do they want to split on what becomes him and Devons,

knowing that they both could have something, like let them be scared or let them take the risk. Let him be outplayed on his bluff. But to not give him the opportunity. Like, what are we doing? The best and most interesting parts of these journeys are pretty much people coming back and lying or choose. There's so much agency. What should I do? What should I say?

How will I pull it off? And then there's the agency back. Do people believe it? Do they read through it? This is what survivor is. Coming back and lying and bluffing and making those decisions. And then the interplay and the push and pool of whether people buy it or whether people still take the risk or whether people don't care and they still put it on you or they can split on you or whatever it is, that survivor. taking that from him was painful.

And I think if he can come back and bluff, I don't know that he does go home. You know, I don't know that they take that rest. I think maybe it is Emily. So that is the thing that really, really pained me about the Swiss. And then like losing Christian generally, like I love Christian. He absolutely came in as my second case and like no one's touching the first. And I, it was more than that in the season.

Like he was even better than I thought he could be. And it's funny when you have these people who are like people you consider, friends in your life or, you know, and, and you like them as podcasters and as humans and as like members of this community. And then you see them on TV. It's like, oh, you're a TV character. And not only you're a TV character, you're like one of the best TV characters, probably in this franchise. And that's why I fell in love with you to begin with. And I forgot that because I got to know you as a person. And for Christian, like, I think he had it all as a character. Like, again, some of those moments are my favorite moments of the whole season. I loved watching him tear it up with Rick Devons. I loved

the personal stuff. I mean, this man went out when he had a six-week-old baby and I now have an eight-week-old baby like the amount like two days before i gave birth i watched him call michael his due north and that has stuck with me and all of that has stuck with me him saying to michael in this episode you know it's not it's not like what you do when you fail it's like what you do um you know how how you basically you handle that like that that's like my my mantra of parenting as like that that spoke to me so so much because that is true it's like i i i say that to rory all the time i'm like i i i can't promise I won't make mistakes, but I'll always promise to try my best and learn from my mistakes. Like I feel, I felt that so much from him, like, those moments where you feel like you're failing.

I feel like he had like the meaning. I feel like he had the beautiful stuff. And he was also having so much fun. There was an episode where he like pooped his pants. Like what? And in one. And then he was like, there was so many things. It was better as a character than I ever could have imagined.

It meant so much to me through this like very murky postpartum period. And I did not want to see it end at all. but I really didn't want to see it end like this. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that while Seri had one of the best episodes of all time for her and like for me for Survivor, Christian had like the worst episode that he ever experienced and there's not even close, right? Like this, this awful, awful thing that happened, right?

Like we watched a slow moving train wreck throughout the entire episode and it's like, it's coming for him. The monster was coming for Christian. There was nothing we could do but sit there and watch it just like the walls closing in. And every time you thought there might be a way he could get out. Like, like, there was never a way, right? Like, so Jeff does this, uh, wager where it's not a wager at all. Uh, it's just like, okay.

It's not a wage. Thank you. It's just like, it wasn't a bet. It was driving me crazy. I was like, did I miss something? There was nothing there. It was just like, oh, do you want to do something fun? Yeah.

Yeah. It was a reward challenge. It was a challenge. But it wasn't a bet. You got to wait a bet. You didn't wager anything. They didn't wager anything. So it was like, okay.

So confused. I was like if they take the bed, they don't get rice. But if they take the bed and they lose, they don't get rice, it's not bad. There's nothing here. There's nothing here.

There's nothing here. People are like, no, but if they do, if they lose, they lose the rice, I'm like, they weren't going to get the rice.

They're not going to get the rice. They're not. There's no bet. There's no bet. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, like, yeah, that moment,

you know, obviously, like we could talk about the Jeff stuff, but I think for me in that moment, I thought Christian, okay, he's good at endurance. this might be okay. All right. No, he doesn't win this. Okay, cool. Oh, wait. He wins paper, scissors. Okay, he's getting a journey. Let's get him an idol. Let's get him an extra vote. Let's get him something we can work with, okay? Because we know they're probably going to try to

split or something like that on him and Devons. We got to get Christian some extra. Oh, look, we get to the journey. It's a puzzle. Perfect. He loves puzzles. And then we cut to Christian saying, I like puzzles. I'm like, yes, yes, you do, you beautiful human. He's about to kill the puzzle because that's what he does. And then he's watching do the puzzle. And I'm like, wait, is he not going to complete the puzzle? And then my dreams of watching Christian go really far into this game, just like get thrown into the ocean,

dragged down into the ocean floor like this damn puzzle. And I think, well, okay, he's already got a vote for himself. Well, no, I think, okay, we don't know what this letter says, but it's probably going to lose his vote or something like that. I don't know. But it's going to be tough. We get back to camp. And he has the humiliation ritual of reading the damn disadvantage to everybody and finding out in front of everybody that he has a vote, he has to vote for himself.

He doesn't have like a penalty vote, right? Like in Big Brother, sometimes they'll say like if you break the rules, we'll put a vote. You'll already have one vote against you. That's, that sounds fine. But to actually force me to physically write my name down so you can get the shot, it wasn't worth it. Survivor, was it really worth it so you could say that you had somebody vote themselves out of the game, literally? Was all of this worth that one moment of Christian writing his end up? Because to me, Shannon, it was not.

It wasn't worth it. It wasn't an interesting twist, I don't think. Right. Like even the advantage of what it would have been. Christian, you get to put a vote into the urn for somebody else early. if you win. I was like, why would I want to vote before I know where all the votes are going? What is that? Yeah, exactly. That actually could be bad. Like having to call your shot on a vote. And it was an extra vote. And then there was an extra thing that they didn't read out because he never won that was like you could bank your vote.

So then because that becomes your vote, you can then bank your vote, which I also think is pretty minor compared. Like if that even is an advantage, that one aspect, I do agree like putting in a vote before all of the, before you have. who wants to do that? That's an active disadvantage. Thank you for maybe a tiny advantage. I don't think it matters that much. Voting against yourself, you lose your vote and you have a vote. So that's like the double negative.

And then being unable to bluff so that you're just like the world's easiest target is by far like the big, like it was completely unbalanced in terms of the disadvantage. I mean, I don't think it's a fun twist. I know that Jeff like loves Christian or who Vicki, he would call him. I hope that Jeff feels bad that he had two last name as go on these twists. Like as he snuffed Colby's torch and Kobe was. was apparently doing well. I thought, I hope you're upset about this, Jeff. Like, I hope you're as upset as I was during Advantage Get In. Like, and, but Jeff saying this is one of the best seasons of

all time. So I guess maybe it doesn't like matter to him. But, um, yeah, I mean, this was like a really painful way to go because, again, I really don't like seeing anyone, especially my favorites, have no room to move. Let them try and wriggle. And if they can't wriggle, then it's on them. And if they can, that's interesting to watch. But like, don't, you can't give them nothing. But I think what's an interesting thing to like look back at Kristen now that there's, this is like his boot episode that we happen to be talking. Do we think, like, as a character, I think, I think Christens mentioned himself as like one of the greats, like really like one of the great, like two seasons of that.

Especially those first few episodes, it's hard to like even think back and remember like how many moments. Like, you know, in terms of like when he's, when he's talking to Emily, you know, and like telling her to stop so many fun, so many fun things. As a player, how do you feel he played this season? Do you think that this was a good showing? because I think there's been some debate about, because like as a player, yeah, how he was.

I mean, I mean, what are we looking at as far as like his, let's say his strategic ability or let's start with the social, right? Christian comes in and he's pretty, he's pretty good. Like he's not in any danger at any point in the pre-merge. So socially I think I could say he's probably fine. If not, you know, above average, he's fine. He works his way into a line structure that suits. him. He has a couple shooters.

But strategically, yeah, maybe there were some mistakes made. You know, I think that him kind of misreading the Ozzy situation and being like, lo, let's blindside Ozzy. That'll be fine. At least he said Ozzy was the middle. That was good. But then immediately he was bad. He went to the rear with that. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, you blindside Ozzy. That's not great. And the flip side of that is like you see Rizzo episodes later being like, we cannot blindside Joe. He won't come back. to us. It's like, yes, that's how Christian should have been looking at Ozzie,

but he made, it was a mystery, right? But he was not, he's no longer like, he's not at that point, like out of power, right? Christian is still able to maintain his position in the game. So I wouldn't say he played a bad game just off of the strength of positioning, alliances, but yeah, I have questions about some of the votes he did. I know he has his own reasons for the Mike and Angelina stuff. Maybe, you know, maybe that's not great for him. But I don't know if you can say that's a net negative of voting out Mike White. What do you think. I actually was never on board with the Mike White decision. I mean, obviously I'm not looking to stuff as closely when I'm not podcasting, but I thought like, man, Emily is not a good ally,

not on purpose. Like, she clearly stayed loyal to him. Like, it's not about that. This woman pretty much got devoted out. Like, she brought in an ally from pregame that she played the game with and accidentally got her voted out. Like, it wasn't anything that she was doing on purpose to make her a bad ally, but I wouldn't want to work with her. Like, it was, it was like 15 strikes when you're out at a point. It's really hard to think about, like, what, the show, what the landscape would look like if Mike White and Angelina are still in. It's like an incredibly different game. So do we know it would have gone better?

I don't know. But at that time, I felt like, yeah, cut Emily. What is she doing? And I understand he was like, we will be a real big target of David versus Goliath. And Kristen is always playing against what's going to be like a big reputation and like his archetype that he just looks so, so intelligent. And he can't hide that because he's like what people would draw in the dictionary. If it was like draw like a smart nerd.

like they would draw Christian. So like he's always going to seem like too smart for his own good. He's always playing against that. But I was never on board with the Mike White decision. That was the best vote of the season though. That was like the one like really interesting. I thought like the three to one, like the way he did it and the decision between Mike White and Emily,

I thought was really interesting. So yeah, I mean, I don't think I agree with that decision. But I have to credit the fact that he was, you know, in positions of power to make these decisions. And like how much game he has to play because the new era is not creating. equal. I encourage everyone to just go to the Wikipedia page of the voting charts of this and then like compared to the Australian Survivor season and just look at the pre-merges. The pre-merging of Australian

Survivor and even though there was like kind of a wonky, you know, in terms of people going to tribal council, even in that, there's so much game being played. And then you go to the US survival one and the 51 and it's just like blank spaces because people aren't voting. People are so, like so few people are voting all the time. But Christian was voting. Like he had to survive so much and he did. He was making calls, which is rare. Like that in itself is like he played a pretty good game. I think Christian again wants to innovate. He and Rick Devons are trying to have fun with this idol, but this is not a format that will enable you to do that because it is so limited. So was it a fantastic game? Like, I don't, I'm not going to say it was a bad game. He got outplayed

by Surrey. Everyone is right. Cool among us. He made, exactly. And what an honor. He made a key mistake. He until that had been Serre's number three. What an honor. So I think socially there's a lot there. I think that the pre-emerge and how much he had to survive, there's a lot there. I mean, he's probably been to more tribal. He probably in the pre-mage went to more tribal councils and some people still have now.

I haven't done the map. So I'm not going to throw all of that out, like with like the bathwater of this boat. But yeah, so I think it actually, it was a good game with some key missteps and being outplayed by like, you know, one of the best plays of all time, again, sounds underrated, but that's right.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think. think it was a bad game. I don't think it was a bad game. Like, I think that we've, we're so far removed from bad gameplay for a lot of these people. You know, like, bad gameplay is the stuff we saw in, you know, the early seasons of Survivor in the first, let's say the first 30 seasons where people would be on the bottom of an alliance structure and then against all logic, they would stay loyal to that alliance structure, right? Or like, oh yeah, I, I'm just willing to go down the ship. I'm loyal. All right. Like, hopefully this person chooses me. Christian was, yeah, agency.

Yeah, agency throughout the game to make decisions that he made. And from his point of view, they looked good. And it's not like, again, the Mike White decision, I think you can really, you know, like really split hairs with that decision because he knows Mike White as well. He knows Mike White. He's known Mike White for years. And he also knows that the first time they played together, Mike White wasn't going

to let Christian sniff that money. And so, you know, it's not like it's a binary decision between women I'm good, I'm aligned with versus man. I'm aligned with Emily and Mike. It's woman that I, you know, have grown to trust a lot. Whereas Mike, I've been proven that I cannot trust him in the game of Survivor in the past. And now I have to kind of reconcile with those wounds that I have and expect for Mike to do something that's against his best interest, honestly. Mike White taking Christian to the end, to me, would be a mistake.

Yeah, but the end was so far away. Like, I actually thought he got a little bit caught up in, like, not really knowing, like, those relationships. He was on the White loader. So I know he has, like, an out-of-game relationship with Mike White. I had an out-of-game relationship with Mike White. Yeah. Yeah, and I think he got a little bit like Emily is my friend in the real world, but like Emily was a bad ally on Survivor, not on purpose, whereas Mike White,

I feel like he's like, Mike is a, you know, he was looking too much at like what Mike had been to him in the game. But ironically, Mike has become a good friend to him in the world. Like Mike White in David versus Gleith isn't necessarily going to be the same person he was him on 50 because their relationship has grown since. I felt like he put too much stock in Emily's real life relationship with him and not enough stock in what had become his real life relationship. with Mike White, not knowing those relationships, but that's how I saw it.

I don't think Mike White was coming for Christine anytime soon. So, yeah. For me, I think you have to juxtapose that week. Christian being like, like I'm good with Mike and Angelina. And then you get the confessionals from Mike White being like, and now I'm about to manipulate Christian, right?

And Mike White kind of showing a peek at the woofie side of him to Christian, it did make the alarm bells go off. This wasn't Christian being like, oh, Mike White has shown me nothing but loyalty. He's always been on board with me. he's been on the level, blah, blah, blah. There's no reason for me to vote about it.

It looks like we've turned a corner in our friendship and as allies we will go for on this game. He saw Mike White basically being like, hey, it's me, Mike White, the big bad wolf. And he's like, wait, what, huh? What do you, where do you come from? And then that's when he starts to look at Mike White as somebody he needs to get rid of.

Obviously, the Angelina and Mike White and Christian Alliance would put a big target on him. So, you know, to kind of minimize that, I can see that as well. And that was the Aussie connection. By the way, I disagree that Ozie was looking. for a cameo on White Lotus. Like Ozzy wanted like an Alex style role.

Yeah. Like that he was like. Specifically the yeah, the Alex role, right? Like in that very specific brand of. Literally I could kind of imagine him in that role. Like role.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe if Alec was there, that other guy that was there, that could have been Ozzie in a different world. I see it and I wish to unsee it. But yeah. I mean,

look, that's what I'm saying. This was by father who was interesting. I thought, like other than everything Surrey's doing, which is fascinating strategically. This was like the most interesting, like actual vote. Unfortunately, it came after 40 minutes of Zach Brown,

but it actually was the best vote of the season. I see it both ways. Like, I think it's like, it's such a tough decision that I think you can't call either terrible. But it wasn't the way that I would have leaned. It's maybe like a 60-40. And I just thought like, Emily, please stop. Cut her now.

That's how I felt at the time, even though she was loyal to him, but like at what cost, again, it wasn't anything she was trying to do. So I kind of felt like I would have been interested to see him go down with the David versus Goliath crew. But again, that doesn't make for a bad game. I don't think anything until now makes for a bad game. And then you can look at like what he and Devons did.

And I thought that was really Devin's led with the stuff. So I was South Africa style. Yeah. Palesa. Well, not even Palesa. We had like a bunch of people like Shona and Shamos both of them in the same season did hide a fake idol. I saw Devin's talked about this thing on Instagram where he said that he had seen that season, but he'd forgotten that happened.

so it like kind of like implicitly put it into his mind that he had that he I think that he had done that um like they just want to have fun I think that you know it was an interesting idea just to have it you never have to use it and that's what Christian was part of you can't blame Kristen for the how it went with Rick Devons and with Devons like he obviously created a target when I don't think he needed to um when he he got out the idol I actually liked his lives like oh like I thought that there was things that are interesting what what and I haven't listened to enough content I'm sure has been talked about the death. What celebrities

he's using for his fake idol? Like they can't just be a fake idol. Like is this the Adam Scott tribal idol? Oh my God. Oh yeah. Is everyone talking about this? Because I'm too much of a big animal

this season. Yeah, I don't think anybody was like your fake idol needs an identity. Of course it needs a thing. Everything has a thing. So we can't just have a tribal idol. Does everything have a thing? Does everything have a thing?

The Megan Malayley tribal idol. Yeah. But it's like it's a series extra vote as gifted by Ozzie so graciously. Does it have? Is it like the, the,

my ambialic extra vote what's the liberty got cut out right you're just like a little extra vote it's like you're kind of like a B-Lebrity like a Cahey liberty like the Kathy Griffin yeah like this an extra vote really am I yeah it's not famous enough so

so not everybody has an idea but how un-famous you have to be that Zach Brown's so much more famous than you I'm not a country music fan but I looked it up at the time and I was like how famous is Zach Brown that's his name right Zach Brown? Yes Zach Brown yeah he has

way fewer Instagram followers in Boston Robb. Like I just think that if you're going to be a celebrity on the show, like, you should be like way more famous in Boston Rob. You got to be more famous than all the players, right? Like at least, with the exception of Mike White, like you have to at least be famous because you have to be a celebrity

that really good to me too. That really good to me too. Mike White is a better celebrity ambassador than Zach Brown is. 100%. Zach Brown's like I've always wanted to play. I'm like, let your application. Mike Wyatt is right there. Like Mike White is very, very famous. That's what I said. And I tweeted that. I know people got it. I'm like, there's only one

there's only one colored last name celebrity that I'm watching this for. It was Mike White. And I always wanted to do it. Why isn't Mike, why just coming in for a reward? All my takes are so old, by the way. I haven't talked about the same. Thank you for allowing me to give all the takes about all these. Yeah, there is no way that Zach Brown should just be able to do that. Apply for the show. We had like Jimmy Johnson, right? Right. Jimmy Johnson. No, massive celebrity. celebrities play. Let them play.

Yeah. Play. Don't play. Why do you just fear fishing as a reward? Sorry, I got, I did not, I didn't expect to go on the tangent of that.

No, no. This is a fair. Right. Yeah, but he must have given it a name. He had to give in a celebrity name. I don't think you have to.

You have to. You have to. I mean, now, in retrospect, you have to. In retrospect, you have to.

Especially because it was meant to be the innovative thing. An extra vote is an extra vote. Like, no celebrity came up with it. But you can imagine. No, Megan Malaley and Nick Offerman called Jeff and said, we want to hide something a tribal. Jeff said, I don't want to hide them in tribal.

I've said before I don't want to hide a tribal. They said, Jeff, please. He said, okay, Nick Offerman and Megan Malaley, I can't say no to you. Is it a Nick Offerman and Megamilalee tribal? Because it's a new and innovative thing. Of course you have to give it a celebrity name. It has had two celebrities. Because if they didn't give it a celebrity name, that's like a real tell.

It's like a huge. The extra vote didn't get a celebrity name. Like, had, had. The extra vote's not new. that's not a new tweet. Oh, okay, I guess. So would Christians like Earn-Earn vote be the Jimmy Fallon

earned vote? It was. Yeah, like specifically branded as that the Jimmy Fallon-Earn vote? Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's taking a lot of heat for something he clearly did not come up with. No, no, no.

That's what he deserves that. Celebrity, stop calling Survivor and trying to push your image onto the show. Tyler Perry did it. Yeah, Tyler Perry did it. I don't think Jimmy Fallon did it. I'd believe that as much as I believe about the fan votes. 63%.

By the way, I was never allowed to vote. You voted for this. They never let me vote in Australia. You voted for this. It's fine. Those results, you know what those results were going as they were coming through? Just like right into like a shredder and the trash.

Right. Because who gives a damn? They don't do what they want to do. Well, okay. Yeah. I think that they gave it a celebrity name. I really want to know.

I don't think so. They had to. Wait, before your question and remember it. Keep the question of mind. Do you blame Christian at all for what happened with Rick Devons and, like, the target that is on Rick Devin? Like, that put it all on their back with what happened? No, no, I don't blame Christian at all for this. I think the target was always going to be on them.

Like, I think prior to knowing, like, they were in the, they were next on the hit list. Yeah, exactly. We're swinging, right? Right. Like, we all saw it coming. Yeah. We all saw it come in. But the thing as well with, I don't even, I don't know how much they believe this idol,

because they didn't flush the aisle. like they secondary split on Devin's with the quote unquote idol. Like if they were really worried about the idol, you'd think that they would be like, all right, we'll play it or go home. But they didn't. So I don't even know how much they believe it.

But if they do, I guess he's bought himself some implicit immunity. But again, they could have split. So it's not even implicit immunity. Yeah. Yeah. I think he bought himself a little wiggle wrong. You know why they don't believe it?

Why? Because it doesn't have a celebrity name. It doesn't have a celebrity name. Okay, you're making points. You're making points. You're making points. I do think there's too ambiguous, right? I don't think anybody has a,

knows for sure. I mean, except Emily flipping, who Devin's told, who has not kept one secret throughout the entire season. Vote around, I'm saying. You bought her out. No, so he told her, but I'm not from her.

The crazy thing is that D, like, D was scuppered by Emily. Like, it wasn't even like, she's like, oh, and I told Jonathan, but like that was like a side point to the fact that Emily had her ready. What does she do it? I love Emily. She's high up on the board, but like,

what is she doing? Who among this cast has subverted your expectations in a good way? Yeah, like, and not and not the people who are gone. I don't want to hear that Kobe did way better than you expected. Okay, we've been through that. I'll talk about other people left. Who are you most impressed with, not named Surrey? Firstly, it's both ways.

Like, I feel like Emily has been episode one of 45, Emily. Yeah. Like, she spent that whole season being like, I'm more than that person and, like, building herself up and now she's just like broken herself right down. She wanted to do that. She said in the preseason she said I didn't like the edit that I got. It's like kind of like oh I'm

brash and I got a bad and my personality is a little bit like a front facing and people don't love me too much but I had to like minimize myself and make myself small in order to be a good survivor player and that's not what I want to put out into the world. She's like I can just be me

and still do well in this game and I'm like okay interesting, interesting thesis. Let's see what happened to you. She does it so earnestly too. She's just asking questions and being, what, Emily, what is happening?

So Emily has been your standout surprise. No, well, I've actually, I don't even know if I've Mandela affected Christians confessional about Emily when she was giving information to Ozzie, but I do kind of feel like the like, in my head I'm always like, Emily, why? And that's like a new kind of like,

go-to quote that I have, which was really, really fun. I felt like the Emily Ozzy stuff, like he mentioned it, which was good, but like a lot of these stories don't end up panning out. Oh, I guess we still have Emily in Ozzy there, but like it's kind of just like, it was so weird. It was like she was fully against him and then she was fully with him. And now she's against him. So that's like a bit of a, maybe just a tough story to tell me. That's just that relationship.

I do feel like a lot of these relationships kind of end up being like the storytelling, which has been largely very good because the characters are great is then ruined by the like where it goes from a twist perspective like the Genevieve Aubrey thing was like such a huge story letter and then it was just like

oh they get into this like unfortunate like swap it wasn't like so earned and I think there's a few examples of that but in terms of like would you actually ask of the players who've surprised me for good and bad maybe well you said what are only people who are still in the game or

yeah only people left because I want to kind of know what we're leading to as far as like are these people's legacies I think a lot of people who went out of the game we get it. Well, I have a couple.

I have a couple of people. Okay. Go for it. As I said, three cheesy points and that premiere that he got many back from. So upsetting. Kyle has personally tried, and I take it very personally, to prove me wrong for the way that I analyzed 48 at every turn. And boy has he, you know, and like,

I didn't get it while I was watching it as much, that how sparkly he is. my God. Not only did he win the season when I didn't think he would win. Then he came back on the season and he was a late draft pick that I got. I was like he's never going to win.

He's never going to do well because he won last week. As we drafted it and they went out to Fiji, he had won the week before. He was D.O.A. And he gets there and he isn't just like accepted. Like he was their king. It was kind of weird the Kyle cult that they had. Like they were all so, like he left and they're like,

I love you so much Carl. And even later like Rizzo, to him in a middle of being like Carl told Carl was like an old brother to me and he told me to work with you and she's like that could not be true because he was there for two days it was like he was using it yeah no all of them were like I would die for Kyle I would freaking die for Kyle I was the most

impressive thing I've ever seen like it genuinely was was I'm like he's one of the greatest players of all time even in the next episode genuinely like even in you know I did I just did the new year rankings like he's of winners he's higher up he's so good like the next episode But they're all just like, and it was a sad way to go out.

But it wasn't just that they were, he was their king. Yeah. Like it was, it was we in all of them across, across alliance lines. Genuinely, so I'm glad that two months later I've had the chance to say this because I wanted to go on the record to say, Kyle, stop proving me wrong. It's annoying and it makes me look bad. Who else? Look, I think I would, if I have a Winnipeg right now, it's Ozzie.

Which is actually crazy. I think Ozzy's going to have a Mateo type thing. I know Mateo didn't win. I was like, do you remember Matteo? But it is. It's like the Frankenstein monster apprentice style. Like, Ozzie, you know, hasn't got his like his proper license yet to strategize, but he's going to get it enough to cut Surrey.

He got put himself in fire against Surrey. He doesn't need to. I mean, actually, to be fair, I actually think like, Surrey has aligned herself with Rizzo, who is like in Tauri, like really bad at challenges and fire. Yeah. Much worse than her. She made a fire in AU versus the world.

I know the people on this feed. I know people on this feed, no. The rest of these people who didn't watch, yeah, the rest of the people who didn't watch AUV world, they're like, Sarie can't win. She can't make a fire. She did lose two fire challenges on that fever.

But she made the fire is the point. Like, we saw the fire get made. It used to be, can she make a fire? Now it's, no, no, no. I have seen her make the fire. Now can she do it faster than this young lad? I think Ozzie has to put himself. buyer against Seri to take her out.

I think that's the best bet there for Ozzie. I don't know, man. I think it's so funny, though, how far we've come in Survivor History where Ozzy looks like a legitimate winner pick. He is my winner pick currently. I mean, look, people ask, how can Sarri get to the end?

Is she going to win the challenge? Like, probably not. I mean, she did, I mean, she won't touchy subjects. People forget. But I don't think they're going to do touchy subjects as the final four challenge. I don't, I mean, maybe. I would have voted for that.

Yeah. If I could, if I got a VPN, I could have. But it wouldn't have mattered. It would have gone ride in the shredder. Yeah, I mean, she could win fire. She could beat Rizzo and fire. And she could get taken because she did. She made it to the end.

People forget she was in final travel council. So, Ozzie could win. I mean, who else has really surprised me? I mean, Rizzo. Rizzo is fun. Like, I have fun with Rizzo. I love him. You know, I'm a sucker for the, I guess, the archetype that I would be,

which is like this, like, superfan who feels like they've won a contest, like the Adam Klein at Winners at War superfan who's there, like, quoting things. things. It's pretty self-identifying. And he had so much reverence. Like, I love the way, I love the way that, firstly, everyone who just, like, immediately sees Rizzo, they think he's an idiot. Like, we all did when we heard R-I-Z-G-O-D, Riz God, baby. And then, like, in the first episode of 49, I was like, all right, you know, like, I got it. And it takes that one conversation for people to get it. And, like, Colby came around. And, you know,

everyone came around on Rizzo. It's really fun, of course, that he's working with Surrey. But I also just really love that reverence type superfan player. It was funny because everyone's making fun of when he told coach that he changed his life and then Emily made the face. I teared up at that. I teared up at when he said that. At the face? I know. I teared up at what Briseau was saying that.

I thought it was meaningful and emotional. It really got me. Coach has that effect on people. You know, like that's the weird thing about it is that I can't even say it's tongue and cheek. Because, you know, to me it definitely feels like some shit I would say that like I don't really mean like, oh yeah, you changed my life. Like, yeah, coach is an icon.

He did not change my life. But that's a through line throughout coach's see. seasons. Even Stephen Fishback, JT, they spoke very highly of coach. You know, it wasn't, they weren't even working with him directly. You know, obviously they had like, they were aligned with coach as everybody else was aligned with them. But they took him out so early in the game. But we saw, like, when, when coach comes back with from the martyr approach or whatever, Stephen is like, oh my God, coach, are you okay? It's like, yeah, he's fine. This coach, you know. And so for, for the reason to say that he affected him on that level, I was not surprised. I totally agree with you, though.

I love Rizzo. I think that for me, I always root for a superfan. I always, because I am that. I am a super fan too, right? I probably don't look the archetype,

but I definitely got that same vibe to where you put me around these people, huh? You podcast about Survivor, like no one here denying that you're a super fan. Yeah, what I'm saying is that like,

I don't necessarily see myself in Rizzo. Yeah, exactly. I've always said you're too cool for this podcast and they, you know, you shouldn't really be hanging out. But you know, when I started podcasting,

I did feel like to make a wish kid. I felt like, oh my God, how did I end up here with all the people that I listened to on the podcast? This is crazy. And they keep allowing me to say things and no one's told me to shut up. This is wild. I was there in your first audition. And I was like, even then, like, are y'all crazy? Like, this is crazy. I said, don't hire this man. And no one's me. Do you definitely, listen, I was like, I'm coming in for blood and like, because I thought it was on borrowed time. You did. You were fighting with Bryce? I mean, yeah, among us. Were you? Yes. I think he was saying like,

I have wounds to pick and then you were just like yelling at us. And I was like, this man needs to be on the podcast. We can, we can tear it up. Right. But in my mind, I was like, well, that was fun. They'll never call me back. And so I definitely understand the idea. Like, I am such a big fan of these people that, you know, like I wouldn't know how to act. But to see him assimilate and then not only assimilate, but become one of the power players, the relationship between him and coach is interesting.

But when you see stuff like coach being pulled to the side by Rizzo and being told, we don't win Survivor at Tribal Council. We don't slay Dragons at Tribal Council. We slay them at camp or whatever. Yeah, exactly. It was Tyson all over again. And this is Rizzo. A man, he's never seen play Survivor.

They think Rizzo's 16. And he's like, coach, what have we learned? How do we play the game? I was like, how do you not love this? This man who's a fan. Like, Shannon, these are the conversations. You would be, like, you always talk about how the, like, you couldn't work for a production because you would be like,

no, this is dumb. This choice is dumb. this you would be telling them no I'm not doing this like if you were a survivor player you're like no none of this makes sense for the sake of it yeah don't make big moves right these are this is the type of advice you give to people when you've seen them play the game and you kind of know they're the the back of the baseball car you know who they are riszo is now giving coach that advice it's so fun if you don't think this is fun that I'm sorry you're not watching it the same way I am yeah no riso rizzo has been good value I mean what a crazy couple of months of his life like yeah

you know this is the thing in judaism die you know like it would be enough like it'd be played 49 like diana if he made it to the end diana then he gets cast on 50 then he gets then he's in a relationship with Ceree he's in a throuple with Ceree and Ozzy like this is

Surrey and Ozzy like you know like these are people who played like probably when he was a very small child yeah this is a mad lib is just random words and phrases put together if you were to tell him and like I don't know like before when did he get cast on 49

like before he's even been cast in 49 it's like in like within six months you will be in a thruffle on Survivor in a landmark returny season with Surrey and Ozzy, no one could believe that. No, like that genuinely sounds like winning the lottery. Right. It's correct. And he's playing well.

Like in terms of like Surrey's apprentices, like, why are he doing better than Ozzie? Ozzie, you've been playing this game for 20 years. Right. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BenMGM Casino and check out our newest exclusive. The price is right, fortune pick. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show.

Only at BetMGM. Access to the Price is right fortune pick is only available at BetMGM Casino. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you,

please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600, to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey Ontario, come on down to BedMGM Casino and check out our newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. Don't miss out.

Play exciting casino games based on the iconic games. game show only at BetMGM. Access to the Price is right fortune pick is only available at BetMGM Casino. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2-6-60 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. The question is, is he better than Ozzie, right? Like, will these people, is there any

world where these people will vote for Rizzo? And why do you think that is? what's your opinion about his win equity I think because he's 16 it's really hard for people to do that that's why I'm so high on the Matt Haywoods of the world or Marianne even it's really hard to respect these like young people especially because it's a lot of like

it is actually a lot of older parents who do enjoy Rizzo seemingly but I just think it's hard to give it does happen we get these young winners but I think you're up against you're up against it in terms of like respect from the jury I just think he came a little bit more unsirious

although the way that they looked at like they specifically looked at Rizzo in 49 with more of his like showmanship that he hasn't had as much of here. That doesn't seem to be here on the season. So I don't think that he's even earning any of that. I just think it's a really tough archetype. But yeah, I mean, I guess if he's against like a Joe and a John, or Jonathan. Yes.

Yes. I don't know where y'all. I feel like people have overinflated Jonathan's game at this point. What is your opinion about Jonathan right now? Fine. That's where I am too. And I've been getting a sense. people are like, no, he's playing a really good guy.

I was like, I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think they, yeah, I don't think that. We get a lot of Jonathan. We get a lot of explaining what he's doing. It's kind of like the opposite of Surrey. Like, Surrey, you just kind of like, we've seen some of it. Yeah, and like, they probably have a similar amount of confessionals. And like, Jonathan, I feel like we're getting like all of it and then.

I'm like, even the shot on the dark thing. Like, he took the shot in the dark. Christian couldn't even vote. And then he gave it back. And like, are you giving Jonathan Chizzy points for this episode? Like, not me. Like, in the middle of cheesy points. episode.

Surrey, Rizzo, Ozzy. Yeah. What is Jonathan doing? Like, he was at the bottom of an alliance

that is again being outplayed by Surrey. They lost their members. If he had been with coach or Chrissy had been with Jonathan,

they probably, like, if they were the two honor and integrity pair, which we can talk about side destinies. He's going home.

Like, no one has that much agency other than the Sir Wizard of Oz. So, yeah. I was, I'm not a fan of so far

but the game. I, you know, I think we're getting a lot more nuanced to his character. than we did the first time.

I think he was very much like, you know, the challenge guy, right? And I think, like, now we're getting a lot more of, like, his strategic takes and this and other.

I think it's fine. You know, like, he's not a great spot and I don't think it's a winning game. So I think so, like Rizzo could beat somebody like that for sure. I think the thing with the super fan archetype.

The banker is called Chappelle. Will you take a Rizzo victory? Absolutely. Absolutely. A Rizzo? Yeah. It's not the biggest box, but at that point,

the other box has got to be like, come on. What are even the other boxes? is that we're looking at the Rizzo would win as a real option. I need to be a rebunks, obviously. Listen, I'm never. I'm clinging to that box or dear life. All in, yeah.

Yeah, all in. But yeah, I think that for this particular archetype of human, like if you are the young super fan, I think that you have to sit next to people who play demonstrably bad games or like, or that they've shown some like level of incompetence. So you'll see like Todd Herzog, right? Like I don't think Amanda played a bad. bad game, but like the competence was really leaning on, on like, okay, this is Todd. Todd has been

running things. He's like the clear mastermind of that three. You know, the, I mean, his second place goes to Courtney there, you know, not to say that, you know, Courtney didn't play a good game, but like, look at his competition there, right? He got Courtney and Amanda at the end. That's how he wins that game. I think Adam Klein is sitting next to Hannah and, um, what's this man's name? Um, the guy, the guy, Ken, yes, there's, she's just, Hannah and Ken. And then they're like demonstrating how, you know, socially they have not been able to ingratiate themselves. And he's like the clear, like clear favor with that, right? I don't think people go in looking to vote.

Rizzo comes across even younger than these people. And he's not younger than Todd was. Like Rizzo is older. But like Rizzo actually does come across like he is like. Like he's younger. Right. Because he's so much the newbie as well. Like they literally.

Yeah. It even exaggerates it more. He has a very young energy. I think we've always said about Rizzo. I think Marianne is probably the best example for something that he's. could have, he would have to, like, exude to win the game, right? It's not only in my city next to people who might not necessarily have the strongest game already, but they also aren't as socially ingrained in the tribe as I am, and they are

not able to articulate themselves as well as I am. So if you put Rizzo next to Joe and Jonathan, and both of them are like, well, I won three challenges to get here, cool. But if Rizzo was like, okay, I didn't win any challenges, but I had to get out three, and she was my number one. And then I had to figure out a way to get out Ozzie. you know, and then I, like, so I made the decision to sit next to you to because I knew that you would, you would take out Ozian fire and I was never going to beat him in fire. You know, like if you could go in and articulate yourself, I do think there are people who would vote for Rizzo.

And I think that it would still be a very fun season for our flagship season 50 here, this big moment in Survivor history to go to like our recent new era standout, you know, and he can kind of be like the face of the new era going forward. you know that would probably um that would probably like teach the wrong lessons because the new era like it would be like the new era like it would be I also find it so funny it's like old school versus new school but like the old school allies at this point

is like more it's like two thirds like Joe and Jonathan yeah and the new school at least game style is like completely led by Surrey who is like the godmother of the new school but she started playing a long time ago you know what this is as well it's just beach shelter people. We've been saying this since Cambodia. Like that's always, that's always what I've been. But is it,

but is it? Because, because who was really a shelter person in the new era? Apparently that's not a thing they do. No, but not like in this season, like Stephanie and Coach and Chrissy and Joe and Jonathan like the shelter. Like this was the people. Yeah. The integrity folks, they were always the going to be building, building the shelter.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is a dichotomy as old as time. That's the dichotomy, like, back to when, like, Rob was like the young new era type superfan. season six, you know, like, I, yeah. I mean, I definitely think, like, there are scales, and the scales have shifted over time.

But it's been, like, obviously, a really big theme of the season. Yeah. Yeah, okay, a few, do you have more on that? No, keep going. Okay. There were a few things I wanted to talk about just in, like, looking at the whole season. Do you want to talk about the edit? Because there was obviously that debate about women in the edit.

Was it a debate? Was it a debate? Because I'm pretty sure we were all, I mean. People debate. People debate in the comments. To be, I'm like, people, what you think what happened is, like, that they were like, women are getting edited badly on the show and everyone was just like, yeah.

No, I mean, like, I think it's pretty, it's pretty clear that women are being underedited. I think the people started to argue that, like, maybe it was somehow warranted. And I'm thinking, yeah, that one's a hard one. Right. Because then you say, like, what are they doing that would need more editing time?

Are they a big character? Would you need to show them? Were they doing anything that stands out? And that's always hard because then it's like, are you saying women are just, like, less entertaining than men? Because, like, questions abound. And or are women cast worse than men? In some ways, in this season, like, they did do the kind of, like, almost homogenous, like, big, like, gregarious man archetype.

And they're going to get more screen time compared to some of the women. But then maybe that's an issue in casting. But I do think, like, it clearly is an issue. I mean, obviously, like, the history of editing on the show is, like, deplorable. So the show earns no goodwill. But I think you can see, like, it's not even just in terms of, like, are they just casting more? brash men and they can just tell those stories easier. Like, again, to a degree.

But then you also look at like, like a similar like level of character and the women lost out in the edit every time. Like, so Rhee has an episode where she gets zero confessions. Coach is also a legend. Like, let's put them in the same category of like great screen time, big legendary characters. Like let's just put them. Coach would never get zero confessions. I don't think.

And then you look at like, Q and Angelina, two people I hugely enjoy. It was devastated to lose both. Angelina got like nothing. Q got to like show his character in the short time we had with him. And like, thank God for that. I wish we got more of Angelina. You look at like Jonathan,

who I think is like not the best narrator and try to put in like, I actually think Tiffany's been really fun. But say Tiffany is like one of the more, like Tiffany and Jonathan are both more of like the questionable decisions from a casting perspective. Like Jonathan,

Tiffany's made it up a bit now. But like has gotten, I think a lot more. I definitely at the time of this debate was happening, you know, a lot more. I think that if you would have like categorized like put everyone into tears of like men and women. of the same category of like quality of casting.

Women are often like two tears down in confessionals. And then, but then I think the thing that's sad about it is like, if it's one season where that's true and it's like, okay, well maybe like Christian is just bringing that much good TV and I did want to see as much of Christian as we got. I loved it. You know, maybe like Evans is doing a lot and Kosher is doing a lot. And like this is just one of those seasons.

You're like, all right, well, that happens from time to time. Like sometimes there'll be, you know, a lot of seasons where women do better. and I know like 49 was probably like the one season where that was true. But unfortunately the history of the show doesn't afford that grace. That this is like one season where men just kind of like were taking the reins. Because again, I think some of it isn't earned. I think like someone like Surrey could even have more. I think there are players who could have, we could have seen like even like D have one.

There were a lot of times where question, Angelina was the big one. Like questions actually should have been asked about the people on the season. And even if that weren't true, how can it be true of every season with the history being as terrible as it is? I shouldn't write notes on this, but my thoughts of it obviously months old, but that's just what I was thinking at the time where it's like it's so clear because the history is like so terrible.

And it matters so much because it matters how we tell these stories because, you know, obviously we only see as much as like they give us. And if they give us less, like of course people question that more. People need like their handheld often in the show or like we need to see what people are doing.

Obviously, like it's not even a negative thing. It's just true. And it's such a disservice to these people and their legacies to bring them back and then not show them. Because then when we talk about them as characters, as players, we're like,

and then they didn't really do second, anything in the second season. You know, like, even if we look at Aubrey and Game Changers, she made it pretty far in that season. Doesn't she make it to the finale of that season? Something like that.

And, um, high was fourth. Fifth. Yeah. Yeah. So, but Aubrey's game,

you're like, oh, she was kind of like, she was there, you know, we don't get as much Aubrey as we would have like that could describe her gameplay in that season, despite her going to the final five, right? There's not a lot to say about it.

And it's not a mark on her game. It's a mark on what you show from her game, right? And it's the editor's responsibility to tell a cohesive story. Jeff likes to say there is no winner edit. I push back against that completely. But whatever he, I don't know, whatever he says goes, I guess it's his show. But I would definitely say that there are definitely seasons where you can watch and just tell about the amount. of screen time and the amount of confessions you get that you are looking at somebody who the show

wants to highlight and normally if that's some if they're spending that much time with the character it's it's the winner you know or somebody who comes really close to winning and so if you come close to winning I'm expecting you to get maybe like a comparable amount of screen time you know but you're like dominating the confessionals to go out pre-merge and then there be people who make it deep into the merge or at least to this point of the game where you very seem very little of but they outlast at you it's hard to reconcile. And so I totally get that. I think in season, what, 48?

It was the say show, right? At the pre-merge, which is like, it was all say everything, right? And so we get to the end and we're like, well, it went from being a say show to the Joe show. And so it's got to be Joe. You know, that was pretty much the analysis because that was all we were showing.

You were seeing everything Joe did. It was all in the positive light for a very long time. And so we look at everybody and be like, well, there's no possible way they could win the game because they're not showing the things that they're doing to win the game. Obviously, Kyle has like a late surge. But for a lot of that season, it was just, the editing was very unbalanced when it came to a lot of characters. And so this is just to me very sad because you clamor to have some of these people play again.

I love a returning player season. But damn, don't bring them back and then not show them. That's not fun. Yeah. I mean, and I think the thing that's hard is that I think that like the detractors of this, like that there's an imbalance in gender in the edit would say like, well, you know, it's not wrong for these people to get content. and I think that that is true. Like, I'm not saying it's like every single time, like, that it's just like men getting confessions is bad.

Again, I'm saying a lot of that is earned. In fact, some of the stuff that people are saying like, oh, well, like, why was Colby the last one in the blood moon? Like, they're making a TV show that tribal council was some of the only good stuff they had in that episode. And Colby is the biggest legend here. Like, he should get his flowers. And even like, Coach versus Chrissy.

But I don't know about that. Yeah, like, I don't know about the coach versus Chrissy though. And that one's kind of weird to me. Yeah, I don't think so because I apologies to Chrissy, but like, coach is coach. It's not saying anything about Chrissy. Coach is coach. He's one of the biggest characters of the season. He's one of the biggest characters to survive the history. They're going to focus on coach.

He's going to be the main event. Right. But should he outplace her? Oh, no. I mean, that's stupid. No one should outplace anyone. I'm very, very worried about how this is going to survive vertal, by the way, which is in my life. I wait all day for the viverto to roll over to the next day. I think, ironically, she was 11th voted out. No. That's what Jeff said.

They just tied. That's not what Jeff's not. Well, that's actually not a gender problem. That's just a stupidest thing I've ever heard, generally. In terms of who gets the moment of their torch snuff last, like, coach is coach. Like, he should get that. And it's not for me, like, it's, if it was coach three, we change, you know what I mean.

Right, right. The order changes. I mean, if it's Chrissy Jonathan even, like. Yeah. Yeah. But again, if she's the 11th person. They tied. They didn't say you tied.

No one said tied. I mean, no. All of the. even the blood moon people, they should all just be tied 15. That's not how this works. Well, that's so dumb. We've had plenty of double boot episodes where that is not the case, right? The grenade is a grenade.

None of that should be true. But that was bad then. That was stupid then. People tied. Here we are. Here we are. Or if it's based on meaning like order you dropped in the challenge, fair. Legitimate differentiated in some way.

If it's not, and it's just TV order. I mean, Coach and Christy were a literal. pair. So like, obviously they tied. Yeah. They tied. Well, they should have tied. But when we, when we go to snuff their torch, one of them is the 11th person voted out. And the next one is the 12th person voted out. Well, that's in the next member of our jury. That's just a stupid thing of I don't know what to do with that. This is a stupid thing. And if that was no effect of Vivertle, is that what's happening with Survival then? Is that how you pronounce a Vivertle? I've never explained it. I don't play that. I don't play it. Why God? It's so fun. You know, you know, I don't like

the games. Oh, Chappelle. I can tell you. I can tell you. I can tell that you're not someone who's feeding a baby for 10 hours a day because I wait. Yeah, you can tell for a couple of... That's the patriarchy. You get because I literally wait for my puzzles to roll over and I get my minute cryptic and I get connections and I get word on. Now I have survivor and I wait for 2pm, which is when it rolls over and then I do my survival hurdle and I'm really just, it's a great game.

Anyway, what we said, but okay, the edit. Anyway, my point with the edit is like... Oh, I don't have enough on the idea, yeah. It's not inherently bad when men get confessions, but if you see a man compared to women who are the same caliber of character in some way they can be compared and women are always losing something is wrong

and it's been wrong through history. Anyway, enough on that. Should we talk about more of these twists? We mentioned Thai Destiny's a little bit. They took that from Survivor South Africa. Did you like it on Survivor South Africa? No, I mean, I was in production on Survivor South Africa for that season

and LaRue took it from French Survivor actually and we said, don't do that. And he was like, I want to him. We're like, okay, well, I don't know. We're just consultants were saying no. I would think Thai Destinies is like just fine. Like, for me, firstly, it would be so interesting.

And on South Africa, they picked rocks in this. Obviously, they chose what they assumed was like a 48-star challenge. If they were choosing the actual Thai destiny, there would be so much agency here. Like, we could do a three-hour podcast on just how people make that decision. It's like the layers of decision-making to choose a partner that you will have a tied-des. What do they call it? Double-duos. Tied destinies with?

Yeah, silly. There's analysis there, but they didn't choose it. So like that kind of decision lacked meaning. But for me, kind of like, firstly, every vote is a six-person. vote on this freaking show. I can't. Even the 13 people vote. It was a six person vote.

Yeah. But I also think it kind of just necessitates for me. Like it doesn't draw these binary lines. Like it often necessitates a bit of a compromise vote. Like who can we kind of part with? But this vote just was thankfully just happened to have meaning because they ended up having like a full nerd pair and a full integrity pair. And so Rie could make that decision.

And like maybe if the integrity pair is a little bit lower stakes like the Stephanie and Jonathan, like maybe she takes the hit at the nerd first. maybe they're just like, juicier nerd targets because she is swinging. But like mostly I feel like if she was like, no, we're doing integrity today, like she got her integrity pair. And it actually allowed these lines to be drawn a little bit

because we happen to have pairs of both and they were just getting hit of two people instead of one. But I do think like most of the time, it ends up being like a bit of just like a, just like what we can agree on. Did you like it? Yeah, it was fine. It was fine.

Exactly. It was fine. Yeah. It was fine. Yeah. Yeah, I thought, I thought, oh my God, is this the thing that's going to screw to re-over, no, she actually got individual

immunity. Yeah, she actually got individual immunity for that, so I'm fine with that. Yeah, no, I watched it and I was like, oh, no, this is interesting. It was fun, but it wasn't like nothing that I thought was crazy. We probably never see it again, right, because this is the only time that we have such a huge cast at this point.

So, you know, Go Survivor for doing something that didn't destroy the show for me, you know? Like, I think the blood moon was really just like a nothing burger. This is at least was an interesting conversation. Yeah, I mean, it's more just like,

please stop with the twist. Yeah. I liked how they showed Christian saying, I don't think they, like, the fans voted for that specifically. Right. It's all going in the shredder, Christian. There's no records on what we quote unquote voted for.

I need to see that data. Yeah, as chaos cast would say, you know, I would like to see that data. Yeah, I'm sure like you're in some sort of record. Did anyone, did you have to enter your email address to vote? I don't remember. I don't know if I thought I might have I might have opted out of the vote to just be like you know what because I didn't want to be blamed.

I didn't want to be blamed you know. I was like an extension is not is not to say that you are now above being blamed because I am being blamed as the fans because I had I voted maybe we wouldn't have some of this wacky shit going on. It really irks me how they're like well we're screwing you over now but it's the fan fault. It's like why do you take pleasure in this? Even the way they painted it right? It's like do you want a.

dynamic season of Survivor with twist and turns and fun gameplay? Or do you want? Dynamic strategy. Right. Or do you want classic poggings? It's like, okay,

I vote for the twist. No, I don't. I want classic Survivor. I don't want classic. No, you don't. Yeah,

but we don't know, because even that's not classic. You know, that's got twist and turns. You know, this was just, this was like, that would like,

do you want, do you want, you know, the new error or do you want, yeah. Or do you want Borneo? Yeah. Right.

Yeah. I choose classic, but I didn't get to go to my word. I'm picking Borneo. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want idols? Do you want like advantages as well? Or do you want no idols and no advantages and boring gameplay, Shannon?

I mean, the votes were made for us. Man, the gameplay has been limited with this dynamic, quote-unquote, dynamic format that we have. Speaking of idols, Billy Elish Brimraying Idol, obviously, we're two months in on that. They clearly did. it because they loved everyone going home with the idol in 46. So they're trying to like manufacture that magic, which I think is like sometimes that happens with, I mean,

it happens often in when you're producing. I think that you're like, that was great. How can we try and like create that? Then people were trying to vote someone out without idols. So you think they like the Billy Irish Idol because it'll incentivize people to get voted out with the idol because it's putting a target on their back. Yeah.

Because then it should incentivize people to vote people out with idols and they saw in 46, people kept going home with idols. And that was such a great organic moment. They thought like, how can we create that again? In a weird way, I think that could be interesting if it ever happened like that. But instead, Shannon to me, I got, oh, Genevievee found two idols that she was not able to use. Oh, painful.

It's also so painful that, like, Christian and Genevie were, like, further screwed by twist when, like, they were the two that found the three. Phillyiarii idols that they really could have used at some opportune times. And actually, like, then they, like, ops had the idols at times. Tough. Yeah. It's interesting because, like, it feels like it should be fun, but it's so hard. party game. Like they're on other tribes. Like how are you going to engineer people going home with an idol in their pocket? Like it really only could have been a social tool and maybe had some upside

if it went south. And I think that's the only way it could have been played. And in that way, I actually much prefer what we saw an Australian survivor of like the different tribe idols to like create those like cross tribal connection. If that's the best part of it, I would have just preferred that. And Miles had a great tweet about this. Like in the moment, it wasn't so clear about how much it would kind of stagnate the idols in the season. And I'm sure a part of that is that like Ozzy and Rizzo had so much in control and they have the idols. But like, yeah, taking idols to the point where like,

you're not incentivized to keep it because you don't get to keep it. Now they're publicly. Now, and they can't be views on anyone else. Again, not Australian Survivor, but like some of the big moments are like, you're going to play the idol on some of the biggest moments in Survivor history. You know, poverty playing idols on Jerry and Sandra. Like that makes idols dynamic.

Like, they're very stagnant right now. Like, again, like you only know who has who has the idols. And they can't be played on. anyone else. You can't buff with them. They're really like very defensive tools right now. And I don't think even in the moment any of us realized production certainly didn't realize like how stagnant that would make the idols on the season. If anything, you want to vote out the people who gave you the idol as opposed to the people who. Because they are incentivized to vote you out. And because they also know you have it. Yeah. Well, but then everyone knows.

And the thing is like, it's like, well, then just hide from them the secret. But there's three of them. So like eventually like they will find out what the mechanism was. Because for a while they were just calling it the Billy Elish Idol. Because I think. that like the boomerang aspect was getting a little off on purpose because you don't want someone to know you sent it with possibly an ulterior motive. But yeah, I mean, you're going to find that out. And then yeah, you kind of like shouldn't work with them. Like, I don't know, none of this.

It kind of feels like it should have created these complex dynamics, but it was just too hard and vague. Again, you don't have that much power on that person going home with an idol. So you might as well just treat it as like, let's be friends. And if you happen to go home with an idol, like at least I'll get like something in my pocket. It didn't work out. It might have been fun of like a one off idol. on the season, but you can't do that because it has to be this like tribal thing because

you have to send it to someone else. So how could they decide one tribe to have it? Maybe the kind of thing where like an Australian survivor where you like you win a reward and you get like an additional thing, but then that's too many idols. It being the idol mechanism of the season that was true of all the tribes didn't work. And there's no way for it to be an additional idol. So it probably should have been scrapped. I don't blame Billy Eilich.

This woman has never watched Survivor. She's not. She'll never watch it. She's never acknowledged it. No. She doesn't know what it's happening with this. Well, her and her friend was on,

no, that was Chaparron's friend. It was on Survivor, 48. Oh, who? He was the music producer. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Yes, him. He's a music for you, Thomas?

Thomas. Thomas. He, no, no, because he produces Olivia Rodrigo. I didn't know that he was a Chaparron thing. By the way, and Chappel Rohn, but you did that. Well, I mean, thank you. I got to, I got to get to, the name, the win on that one.

Just, you know, I try to be. I try to be. You know, I was looking at the vote so far for these, uh, these in the hands of the fans. You know, we have a couple of votes left that we still haven't explored. Do you know what you remember what they were? No. Well, we did a vote for the tribe colors.

Obviously, we landed on orange, teal and magenta, uh, rice. In the shredder. 60% versus, uh, voted for, make the players earn the rice. Um, the vote reveal. reunion. Do it in Las Vegas ends up winning as we know. Advantage dynamic power. Tribe switch, yes. Immunity necklace

a decorative bird tribes applause make them earn their camps of lies. Twist, I love twist, bring them on. And idols yes, 80% said no. Now, that said, we still have the final four challenge to vote on

well, to get the results for it. Right in the shredder. Well, do you remember what our three options were? there were three options three options for the final four challenge for pinball wizard challenge let me make for fire touch you subjects

no pinball wizard the obstacle and some motion yeah those are the big three which one do you think is going to win and be our final four challenge in just a couple of Billy Irish life and yeah and who will we name it after yeah well you won't have to name that

why not where's Neil Patrick Harris right the NPA Brown yeah the event no yeah the survivor

you have a celebrity Brown the survivor Browns yeah the obstacle the event Nicole Brown

pinball wizard I can see it which which one is pinball wizard is that the one where you run up and drop the thing

and then you come down yeah I think so like the Plinko yeah I think so it's kind of like I don't know that yeah big

that's what I thought of but full body's emotion Yeah, look, I think Sarie has a better chance It's emotion Right And yeah, the last thing

Final Four fire making Keep it or lose it And we don't know the results To that but I'm I think we know I can't stomach it I can't stomach Because you know

I'm gonna be like 80% said They didn't They didn't say that They didn't I will not be blamed for this 99.6% of the fans said keep the fire

Yeah No they didn't No they didn't No, they didn't. Should we Ding Mary Kill the Jeffisms? I mean, there's so many, but to me, the big one is definitely the, the plan along with the challenge. What else are you going to put it in the running for the Ding Mary Kill? The rap.

Who? And the impressions. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, because I'm married the impression, right? The rap's going to die. The rap's dead. And I'm going to marry the impressions.

I thought they were really funny. I thought it was good. I thought they... I thought it was good. I think I'm going to marry the challenge. Really? It was... I did.

I thought that was so much fun. It was low stakes. As we, you and I both agree, there was no wager. It was just funny games. Some shenanigans. But I think it made

a rather stale challenge so fun to watch. You know, endurance challenges, especially on U.S. Survivor. are so boring. It's just, we're just standing there. I think on AU, we really, they, like, there's a lot more chat and across, you know, like, they do that kind of stuff on AU a lot more. You can't, you like, although I kind of want a yada yada, yada, the challenges, I'm not, I'm afraid I might miss something.

That's actually, you know, interesting as far as, like, conversation goes. But, I mean, US survivor, I was like, okay, maybe we're going to get Christian filibustering again, you know, maybe something like that. No, we actually got a lot of entertaining content out of them trying to heckled Jeff, Jeff having the shoe on the other foot. You know, a lot of us are Monday morning quarterback and all this stuff and talking about what we would have done, should have done, what these people could have done. But we don't actually go out and do the thing. And so we'll never really know.

I think Jeff is just like us. I mean, he's a lot closer to the action than we are. But in a lot of ways, like, we got to see clips of Jeff completely shaming people for how they did in the challenge, only to basically lose to the majority of the people left in the game. And he narrowly beat Surrey. like serria almost beat jeff yeah so yeah and i always pretty good right they they beat them they beat jeff and i'm like why this is crazy but i thought it was so much fun it was funny that it was seven and a half minutes i mean look mine would be 20 seconds but i enjoy all the montages other than when they show that

damn balance beam why is it always a balance beam for sari show me the three two one the show doesn't understand why sari is magic they're like what did she do she voted out eric that speaks for itself and that balance be my God in heaven, I wish you never see it ever again. I enjoy all the montages. Again, like, I enjoy the part of the season that is like the reverence for the show.

So I enjoyed that. I kind of think like it was fine. I'm not watching the show for this reason. I enjoy the dynamics, but I think the dynamics will play out themselves. Like, as you're right, if Jeff isn't doing this, like Kristen is doing something entertaining.

Christian is filibustering. Like the most, the best part of this was that apparently Christian was asking for the deep dives. And I heard that was amazing. You pointed that asked me at love. it. That's what I'm here to see. Like, while it was fine,

it didn't, it wasn't like, that's why it's like the middle one for me. Like, it's pretty neutral. But like, later on, we kind of get this glimpse of Joe speaking to a sister and ask him to give him strength as he wins a challenge. That to me is why I'm watching. That's much more interesting to me than Jeff playing the challenge. But like, I'd like to see that you can't see people

for a reason, let them stand there creating entertainment, but it doesn't kill the show for me. It's fine. Even the rap, which is the one we're killing, like, it's fine. Like, give me that over. the twist to break the game for sure. No, I don't know about the rap. I'm good.

I'm dead. Kill it. Kill it with fire. Yeah, burn it with fire. I, you know. I feel like that's what you think Hamilton is. Yeah. It's like, it's like rap being history.

This sounds great. I would, I would love to see. It's like me, but it's not like Hamilton. I mean, and I've listened to you rap Hamilton more times than I would like to admit. and against my will. Just like everything I learned about Mr. Bees,

never asked for that. But it's fine. We'll still take it. I would love to see Jeff have done the, the poverty hang on the pole challenge. You know? I think that's more entertainment than just this.

Get him in his, not even his swimwear, right? In his underwear. Not in the water. Get him to do one of these big obstacle courses like that, maybe a hero's challenge against it. Could you ever see Jeff doing another challenge?

Now, do you think he has the, like the bug? Oh, God. Well, don't do that. well don't even put it out there we saw it it was fine i don't hate it once there was a real wager like if y'all beat me then i will double the amount of fire y'all have no no and if y'all lose then obviously you know like half of you yeah yeah whoever i beat will lose their vote yeah that's something like that um yeah i don't know that's awful it is awful but i just want to see

Jeff do more stuff. I think that was fun. Can you imagine if they made people lose their voice for losing against a challenger? Jeff, that would have made me angry. I'm glad it wasn't a wager because that would have broken the game. So he doesn't have a vote because shouldn't be Jeff in a challenge. Like, I wouldn't even be here to talk. I'm at the level where I can at least be here to complain. I don't mean. Like, I don't want to get a little bit past it where I'm just dead. So, but yeah, I thought this was fine. I thought it was simply fine. You know what I liked about it? I liked it. I like that it didn't take 40 minutes, like Zach Brown. I don't know.

remember like a time before I was watching that like in that moment. God it went on and on. Shamed he seems like a sweet guy. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. They're making the decisions. They're making the decisions of how much time we devote to Zach Brown. That's not again like much like coach and Chris, it's not his fault.

He didn't ask for all that screen time, but man, I hated it. Just like I'm mad of Jimmy Fallon about this Christian thing. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. You can make me care. I don't care. It might be. It might be. He shouldn't have made the call. He didn't.

He made the call. I don't want to tell you. He didn't make the call. He said, Jeff, I have that idea. He just said, Jimmy, I don't know if we can give you that. He said, damn it, I'm Jimmy Fallon. He said, you are Jimmy Fallon. You are Jimmy Fallon.

Even on his show with Christian, he kind of indicated that's not what happened. He's like, yeah, I have ideas. You didn't watch it? I can't because I want Christian. Because I'm like secretly hoping Christian like will flip the table. and he won't do it. And I'm like, well, Christian, we have to take our power back at some point.

We have to, you know, I'm not going to say we're going to assault Jimmy Fallon, but if he did, I would look the other way. No, he didn't. No one assaulted Jimmy Don. That would look the way. We don't know. Yeah.

It's not a question. It's the fans. What? What did you think of D? He's great. I love her. I think she's like, I think watching her play this season,

this was like, it's like solidified, right? Like, yeah, she did 45 and that was good. But to me, this was, was like, no, like, look at Dee. She has chops. It wasn't Kyle. Like, she wasn't God out there. But, and this is the thing that's with the New Year. It's like, I really enjoy Dee. I thought she was great. But, like, she didn't get to go to that many tribal councils.

But it's not her fault. Yeah. I think Dee is great. I thought she brought a lot of entertainment as well. Again, I didn't get to see enough either way. But, like, she's one. I saw things played the best, like, New Year winning game. I think Carl's probably the best winner, though. I'm with D still but Kyle is definitely number two but I was very impressive

I was the one that I would I always said I would choose Kyle as like if I had to like bet on one as a player I always thought D played the best winning game those two were different and like I think that remains even truer now that I know that Kyle can start a cult within 24 hours with being on that island yeah no I'm very I'm very high on D the way she performed in this season I also was very

higher on Savannah. I thought there's Savannah with the spot that she was in as a winner on this particular tribe with this makeup of tribe. And you know, I just, there's something about just like that the gamer squirrel like type of player, right? Where it's like in them where it's like

no, I'm here to compete. I think D has a lot of that in her but Savannah for sure is like that that switch goes off right and she is competitive and she's going to play hard and I love seeing her too. I think all three of the winners that they brought back really made decent showings while

I think it's very early for the movie coming back a lot and I definitely wouldn't want to see them back on a season where they're only three winners because they're so outnumbered by all these other people who have not yet got to like capture the crown for themselves. I would love to have seen any of them play again. Even now, you know, now that they've all played twice,

I'm still kind of like I would watch the Savannah, Kyle and D return one again, do it all over again. When is it worth you? I think they kind of like, she was like they probably shouldn't have brought back Savannah like I think that that was validated like for her own sake like what an impossible position um really really tough like they haven't seen her they're really scared of that she doesn't have like the inroads the time that riso ended up getting

to kind of get past that and she's the winner like so tough like i'd much prefer had preferred to see her later and like like i'm sure we still will and i hope we still do she did insult taylor swift in the preseason and that one's been hard she got taylor's karma then she was like then she was coming for Surrey a bit oh it's like Savannah there's gonna be a third strike like if you come out against Hamilton raps like Chappelle is now like unfortunately it's gonna be done for us but I did not bring up Hamilton

Raps by the way for the record for all the Hamilton heads out there it wasn't me I just didn't deny it yeah I know how you I know how you think yeah it was probably it was probably a bad spot to bring her back

but look again the cast have exceeded my expectations it's just kind of like running against this wall was I too too negative on this podcast? What do people expect? I actually like I had this interaction with Josh Kettles yesterday where he was like, oh, I've like missed her coverage

and I'm like, well, I probably should have been kept away because like I'm kind of down on the season. He's like, no, that's what I missed. I feel like I'm hopefully coming in because have people been enjoying the season? I've been too much of a casual. I think people are enjoying it more than me and I wanted to come in here and just ask the question, is the season bad? And in talking with you like, I don't know

where I land. Yeah, I think no. I think there are bad seasons of Survivor and I think that for like various different reasons. I think this season is taking big swings and some of them are definitely whiffs but I wouldn't say that they're bad I would say that all of them are bad

right and I don't think it's been enough to make the season bad like I which twist didn't with the double the double trouble it was just fine it was fine and fine is okay fine is not bad that's not the best case scenario oh I'm just saying we're not looking for the best case, which is making sure that this isn't a bad case scenario.

And I thought it was fine. I think that to me, the seasons of survivor are the ones that really put the players in a situation where the game is not what they were told. And I think these people were told this is going to be wacky and twistfield and crazy and that's what they're getting. This isn't the edge of extinction. So, I mean, that's, I think, pretty universally agreed on that that's a bad season, right?

Yeah. Right. But I mean, but that's what we're looking at when it comes to bad seasons. to me this is middle of the road somewhere. It's more entertaining than a season that gets like a typical pegging or like one side versus the other and we just all eat that one side and then we get like a challenge beast kind of emerge at the end.

Like this has been dynamic as Jeff would say. I like dynamic. I did enjoy another thing I'm thinking of now that I'm going through. I enjoyed the Charlie stuff. Like he got a little too real with Maria, but I thought it was like very funny. Yeah. But then it was like always sad because it's like,

wow, that's really like, I think quite fairly like eating him alive. Like he really went through something with that. Like people like were coming at me a bit when I was like, this is kind of a trauma. It's like he lost a million dollars on the betrayal of a friend. I know that there are people out there like who lost handily and didn't get like a close friend's vote and that end of that relationship.

Like let alone like the winning vote. Anyway, I've spoken a lot about the Maria Charlie stuff. And like I think like he's. Have you? Yeah, at the time. Oh, okay. I thought you made a recent.

I think that I thought that the Maria vote was like the most. important vote in Survivor History jury votes since Suhawk. I think it was a, I think, I think, and I think it's probably the most compelling moment of the new era. That's what I, that's what I kind of loved about it, like, because it was like, this is like legacy. Like, this is actual like new era legacy. We're getting a lot of that like 46 stuff, like he was being fun and Charlie brought this baggage, which again, like, as a human, I really feel for him because I think it's real

and I think it's earned. But like, like, from a TV perspective, I was like, this is like a, you know, what is affecting him as a historic moment in the show. It's compelling AF. It's sad. But like, yeah, to lose a million dollars by being like that betrayed by someone you care about. And like, again, I don't want to relitigate

all the jury stuff. I'm definitely not going to right now at the end of this podcast. But like, he's a lot of to feel the type of way about it at the very least. And clearly it affects him. I thought that was great. And then they flash back to it. Every flashback kind of gets me. Balance people's like. Yeah. About especially not that one. I like looking at kind of how the

of these people's past, like past games have kind of manifest themselves in this. Yeah, because I think it's the point of the returning player season. Like, obviously you don't get that in every season where people are able to look back and say, okay, here's the thing that I want for redemption, you know, not to, you know, wink at AU one more time. But, you know, we saw, you know, Christian and his old Mike White, you know, trauma that he has to navigate. you know, even some of these other people, like even Savannah, right, a person who won the game is still looking like, like, hey, the final travel council was kind of rough.

What did I do wrong? What can I change? There's a war. Like, they were winners who had their baggage and they brought it in. And that's one of the things I found the best about that season was like they all had something new they were trying to earn. Yeah. Arbery, Rick Devons, like all of these people have a little bit of baggage that they were.

And I like that the show was taking time to address those things. I think the Charlie was way over the top. I don't think it was necessarily Charlie. I mean, don't get me wrong. He seems like a, they put him on TV for a reason. So he's an entertaining guy. He's obviously a showman and he's leaning into this. But I do think that it bothers me a little bit that his legacy will always be Maria.

And to me, to me, Charlie is more, to me, Charlie is a better game player and a better survivor character than just the Maria moment. I think there were more egregious things that happened that season than the Maria vote. So, like, I mean, there were a lot of, we talked about this when we did the defining moments and I think I fought for that and it ended up being that I'm. piss moment. I get it, but I just think for me and like what I love about Survivor is like someone making a really personal vote that this like heartbreaking thing and it being like the deciding vote, that's just Survivor to me. And it's hard to get that in the new era. We talked about this a lot

in Australian Survivor where we did get a lot of it. Like that to me is like pure human dynamic. Someone goes in and they're hurt and maybe they shouldn't be hurt. They were coming for you. But like you can't, I don't know, you can't fight against those feelings when you're like in that position as a juror and you make a decision like that against a friend that's been like almost a defining relationship of the season and it's the deciding vote like that to me is the most just like pure survivor that I feel like we pretty much have got in the new era um that was like like the last time I remember being like and again the seasons I enjoy a lot in the new era 42 45 47 as well but 46 was so raw and real and like that was the time where I remember being like

just flawed by by a decision um and I like that it bled into this season because I do think it's survivor history at the very least. And it is upsetting that it does, both Charlie and Maria's legacy to get consumed in it, but like at least it's a huge moment to be consumed in because it was a big moment. Yeah. Is there anybody we underedited it on this podcast and left out and didn't give their flowers to? Any words for Jenna Lewis?

Jenna. She was right. She was right. I mean, I hated that she said it. It felt physical. Right. Because why would she say that? Yeah, why would she say that?

And like, and like, Therries missed, obviously. I mean, she was wrong to do it as a player because how is that going to go? Like the real, like, all the things are saying is why it's not going to work. But she was right in theory. Who else? Who else from this cast? I mean, you've kind of talked about Q. We got some shenanigans.

It was fun. Q was my top three case for me. Yeah. Wild to me. I love to me. Did you? I think he was possibly the best casting of the new era. So, like, for me of every.

everyone. Marianne is. I mean, yeah, I was like, come on. You always. Marianne, Carolyn and Q are the, are the Mount Rushmore and that fourth spot. I'll definitely give you Marianne and Q. I'm kind of like on the fence about Carolyn right now.

Just like in general, because it's been a few seasons since that. No, I, yeah, but that I'm talking about In Survivor. So I think that the Tika 3 doesn't age well. And maybe it's just 44. but I think that, you know, like, I don't know, because I thought people were higher on Jam Jam, and the whole Tika 3 is as whole.

And then I heard y'all talking about, you know, it's like winner rankings. And I was like, yeah, now Kyle's going to go up. Because Kyle's gone to these people. But he's also played again, right? And Jam Jam has not. So, yeah, so I don't know.

So I definitely will give you those two spots. Yeah, I just sit around and think about it, maybe, as the big characters of the new era. Who are the players of the new era? the new era, if you don't mind me asking. Like, who are the characters? Back to my baby, but who are the, who the, the, the, the, like, the, like, if we have, like, our Mount Rushmore of Survivor, like, overall, right?

Old era, right? Up to 50. So Kyle is on the. I waited too much to give Kyle his flowers. I'm not going to stop you. I love Kyle. Kyle D. You got to look at the winners first, right?

Yeah. Because, like, where we have, like, Boston Rob, Sandra, Parvety. Well, are you doing same new era players? No, I'm saying like in comparison to like the old era players, right? Like so we had Boston Rob, Sandra Parvety. Who's in our fourth spot? Kim.

Surrey. I mean, I'm taking three over Kim for sure. Yeah. Right. Tony. You didn't say Tony. Tony. Yeah.

So Boston Rob, Sandra, Parvite, Tony. Right? That's the big four, right? You try to speak Tony away from me. I heard you. No, that's the big four. No, I'll give you that. I'll give you that.

That's the big four. I just literally was. drawing blank but um and then like you like and then like serri is like the patron saying of everybody who was good at survivor but did not win um so like she can she can have that uh but like here okay give us like the big the big four

of the of the last nine seasons do that on the spot that's impossible you ain't been talking about nothing else you got Tom let's do it uh we got there's only nine winners to talk about and you just rank them not too long ago only win yes well I mean I think you would like like you start with the winners and then

we'll have to expand that so I think You just did this. Yeah. D. Kyle, Mary Ann. Who are the winners? Yeah, and then is it Jam Jam Jam? Jam. Jam's like, I think it's Jam Jam.

I think it's Jam. Like Jam Jam did the traders and like Kyle did this. And like I feel like the rankings maybe changed a little bit. I didn't enjoy Jam Jam on the traders other than like, I guess like the stuff against Rob. But he's entitled. I shouldn't say that.

I guess not. This is R.C.P. Yeah. Who's the fourth? what we're putting Marianne? Yeah, is it not Marianne? I think it. To me, I was like,

Marianne is completely underrated. Like, what are you talking about? I completely agree. Very, very, very silly. I will tell you, whenever I watched the Marianne final tribal council speech when she reveals that she has the idol, she's like, this is the idol and this is a note,

it gets me every time. It gives me every time. Because it was like, it was in that moment they knew they fucked up. I was like, oh yeah, now y'all know. But yeah, so we got that Mount Rushmore of winners. But like, are any of these players

that we've seen come back and play again, like Rie kind of like having a resurgence. Like whose stock is now going up, aside from Kyle, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm like this is a great season for Rick Devons.

I love Devons. People, why does Devinz get so much hate? Like, I enjoy Devin's so much. He's just going to have fun. And it's fun for me. Like,

I'm having fun with him. I honestly think he's a great time. I drafted him. You what? I drafted Rick Devons and very proudly. Yeah, I don't know. I've learned much more about him as a player.

or as a character. I think he's like a pretty good player who I've always really enjoyed and like he is. I will take the deal. Banker. Take the deal. Give me the Rick Devons win. Give me the Ozzy win.

Give me this rewin. I think I drafted Ozzy and Rick Devons. Stop that. Now you're just bragging. I'm just saying. You're going to win. I mean, or Rick Devins. I think Rick Devons.

I think Rick Devons can win the season too. Do you think so? I would love Serena win, but yeah, I could see Rick doing it. Do you think Tiffany is our like a sleeper pick? you know, I mean, because in all-star seasons, we typically get that person. She didn't get enough.

She's been fun, though. I was enjoying it. Like, once we finally started hearing from her, like, she had a really good, like, continuous, like, reaction back from tribal stuff that I think has been enjoyable. I love Rick Devons. I love what he and Christian were doing. I had so much fun with it. I love they were having fun and I was having fun watching them. Who's your winner pick?

That's the last question. And we're done. I mean, I mean, Sirius is my winner pick. I'm like you. You're going to get so hot. And I would be yes to you. be hurt. I can't be hurt. You can come to me. No. And I'll be like, you moron. How do you keep falling to this? This is completely on you, but I will also be there for you. I can't, I have to allow

myself to feel. I think with, I think with coach, part of the journey is that coach is always going to fail at Survivor. That's just him. And so like, you know, you have to take the good with the bad. You have to take the awful, awful days or you're like being like, who is this jackass? Only to then watch him get voted out and be like, that was the worst thing in the world. I can watch that again. Like exactly. Exactly. It's fun because he's right. You're like they're against him and then it's going to like I actually think that was a great way for coach to go. I guess just in tight it kind of was

obscured by Tide Destiny's. I was also thinking the season it's just so wrong. It's like watching like a dog walk on its hind legs when you see these old school players interact with these new era things but he's like coach is like I'll play my shot in the dark and I'm like it doesn't feel. Why do you have that? Yeah you shouldn't be allowed that. Yeah, exactly. That's my coach is fun. He's a foil. Like like yeah. I say I say all that to say, I think part of the journey with Surrey is going on the journey. It's the roller coaster.

It's watching her kind of be like at the bottom of the tribe. If we're talking about Panama or something like that, or perceived to be like, oh, on the outs or something like that. And then we get the story about she gets off the proverbial couch. And then she goes on to do these amazing things. And you're on there and you're with her on the journey. And then like when she hurts, you hurt. When she cries, you cry.

You go on that journey. And so it's like if it means Saria is going to lose, then if it's, that survivor, that's what it's been. But if she wins, Shannon, if she wins, it's the best win of all time, regardless of how it happens. There could be

three marias on this tribe and it doesn't matter if they all vote for Sarie. It means nothing else. Yeah, so I think I have to be able to go with it. I think that Surrey is my winner pick. But like, I take the, I take the Aubrey case, I take the Rick case, I take the

Tiffany case, I take the the Ozzie case. I take the Rizzo case. I got five cases on the board. Shannon, this season is fine with me. And that's outside of Sari. Yeah. Okay.

Well, we feel differently. We have a very different Dondi, donned board. Yeah. You only have one case left. It's three. Yeah. I mean,

no, I'd be happy for, like, Rick Devons, I think Rizzo's gone up in stock as well. But yeah, like most of my top cases, you know,

like it's not a great. It's not a great thing. Like Chrissy Teagan, the banker is definitely, you know, got more cases than I. do but and again like I don't necessarily dislike most of these people um you know like I like I like in the seeds like you know I like him as a person but like in terms of like the player no Joe is dope

Joe seems very very kind and very nice and he also gets a lot of hate from someone for someone who's just like kind of trying to um advocate to play the game and be nice yeah yeah like the only I get it but like I don't know I also think that kind of crazy just like yeah but look look people like coach do that to everybody right because when they what happens is we get the scenes of coach being like and if you lie in this game yeah you know it's i guarantee you won't win the game like coach who how dare you you know just decide that you know they were like they were like less great than the sum of their part it was like these people could all be fun but if they link up were done like if they're all alone they could all be good but if they all get together then they're all down

and then like that was happening and then we had an honor and integrity alliance but again as a foil we're okay. But yeah, I probably should go. Shepel, thank you so much for letting me just like brain dump two months of thoughts on the season. Had a great time.

Tell me what to find yourself. Look, they know where to find me. Recap kickback.com is where I'm doing my thing talking about, you know, sometimes reality TV, but mostly just whatever I want to talk about. So I got a flavor of love content over there. We're actually talking about VH1's charm school,

which if you were around at that time, God bless you. But Chantelle and I are talking about it live. Gia and I still have our Abbott Elementary coverage. We are, we still haven't recorded our season finale coverage yet, but it's coming soon. So tune in for that. And Mari and I will be talking about the Michael Jackson movie, Michael, the biopic that has recently been released. We'll be talking about that soon.

So we got a lot of content coming your way. But, of course, I love talking about Survivor with you. I love listening to you talking about Survivor. And so it has been very boring around these streets to not have you talking about it, still. So I was very happy that I was selected to be in this role to get to chop it up with you and vibe about the season. And hopefully you start feeling better because I know once the Surrey wins happens, we will all rejoice in her power. So I am very excited for the day that that comes and looking forward to hearing the rest of your takes later on. Well, he won the cheesy, okay?

So whatever happens, well, and it was a fair and true. Give her the mug because it's done. But Yeah. This is mostly for me, right? Like, it's great for my mental health. I'm going to talk about the show. Hopefully some people listen to it and enjoy it. But, like, you know, I want to talk about 50. I didn't get to, you know, to talk about 50.

And maybe again, every week probably would have been too much for my blood pressure. But I think this was like a good spot to put it. Follow me at Shannon Gates. I'm hoping to do Augustine around soon. We're really hoping to like get to that to actually go through the last two-ish months of our life, which has been a lot. A lot of it really good. A lot of it really good.

feeling great today. I got a lot of sleep last night. So if any of the takes were bad, that's like fully on me, not on my baby. Please don't blame her. Please present and hate about the baby. Thank you so much of how this has been great.

Thank you to our team behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone for listening. And when will I see you next time? That's a good question. I hope to do something maybe after the finale. Talk about the last few weeks. Okay. And then I got to come to Australia.

Yeah. But you always say that. And you don't. I'm working on it. I'm working on. I got a job. You see how good the finale looked in, in the reunion of Australian

Yeah, I literally said Oh my God, I've never considered this before But I should go to Australia That was the moment Yeah, I was hoping that people would think it Because it looks like And I won the draft I know

And you're gonna win this one probably I hope so I mean unless the rewins Then which is better obviously But yeah I will take the Emily case That's the worst one My draftic

Yeah I think the case In the draft That'll be interesting let's see yeah look I love fun TV let's see let's see if we can make that happen all right well this was great again I'll see you guys next time thanks so much bye bye

australians survive