RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 47 Premiere | The Weekend Program

Episode Date: September 21, 2024

This week, Josh and Antonio talk about Survivor 47 and Survivor Borneo: The Movie!

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I am joined here, as I always am, by the great Antonio Mazzaro. Antonio, how you doing? Josh, how's your weekend going? My weekend is going great because it's kicking off, as it always does, with a Saturday morning special known as the Weekend Program, which, if you do not know what the weekend program is it is a week endly podcast here on rha p in which antonio mazzaro and myself again hi josh wiggler we talk about tv and movies and other various topics related to the scripted space whatever we want

to talk about it's our saturday morning hangout show up here in the attic we would love to see you come along for the ride theweekendprogram.com will give you all the information you need to subscribe to the weekend program listen to old episodes theweekendprogram.com antonio typically we talk about scripted tv on this podcast but we are also an RHAP podcast. And this week, Rob has a podcast, got name-checked on television, on primetime TV, no less. Oh, was it in CSI? It was a CSI episode in which there was... A podcaster was murdered?

A podcaster was murdered. No, a podcaster was murdered on CBS this week, though. That's true. It's true. Not on NCIS and RHAP, of course, delightfully shouted out and represented by the great Asia Welsh on Survivor

47. So, Antonio, we are at the start of a brand new Survivor season. For those who just tuned in for the scripted takes to the weekend program, perhaps those people are not aware that we are part of a larger apparatus that stems, it emanates, I'm going to say it emanates out from a pulsating island in the middle of the South Pacific. There is, I believe, light at the center of this island, and his name is Jeffrey.

And it is Survivor from which, the Godhead from which all podcasts on RHAP stem. And so today, as we are in the first week of a new season of Survivor, we want to talk a little bit of Survivor. Say hi to a few people who don't know that the weekend program is on. We're popping up in your Survivor RHAP feed. This is Antonio, my first Survivor podcast in a little bit of a minute. Not my last one, but my first one in a little bit of a minute. And I can't remember the last time you and I spoke in a dedicated capacity about Survivor, at least on the record. On the record, I'm trying to recall how many times it's happened at all i mean we've recorded hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of podcasts together josh how many times have we actually recorded a podcast together about survivor famously we recorded uh the the debbie wanner

exit interview or exit episode of survivor co wrong uh because i recall uh serenading you with uh come to debbie wanner's mall for one fair enough yeah okay that that makes sense uh yeah that's good yes uh and then did we do like a winner's draft at some point with rob i feel like maybe we did because i caught a lot of flack for drafting people who won uh i don't i remember that i remember saying uh that uh vasipia or bob would be worthy picks because they managed to win a season of survivor that none of us played on so how do we know what the dynamics out there were really like uh so i feel like we familiar yeah we've done this a couple of times but i don't think it's much more than a couple and look is survivor scripted is a funny question that people have asked and will continue

to ask forever. We are not asking or answering that question on this episode of The Weekend Program. I mean, hopefully a resounding no, if you're a Survivor fan. But Survivor's impact on television, on both the reality space, which has exploded in the wake of Survivor, just like RHAP has, as well as the scripted space josh you were making references obliquely to lost there with your energy at the center of the island there's tv shows that are beloved to us that never exist if survivor doesn't exist name names you coward lost obviously where else would you go where else would you take it well some of the problem is like what flood what stems from what so like all of the Lost offshoots stem from Lost.

Well, if Lost stems from Survivor, are those the grandchildren of Survivor? So that's the first thing. I mean, other creators have cited Survivor as heavily influential on the scripted space and the things that they've done. Shows like The Colony, films and books like The Hunger Games, The Walking Dead. The creators of The Walking Dead have talked about Survivor. Various Walking Dead related programs have talked about and cited Survivor as an influence for the sorts of things that they're trying to capture when they're not showing zombies eating people up. They're trying to capture some of those dynamics about rebuilding a society or starting new with no rules and seeing what you do are the leftovers josh in a similar fashion uh damon lindelof has often talked about survivor in the context of the tv

shows that he's made with lost and lloyd braun's influence at abc being a big part of that but yeah there's a lot of them there really are a lot of them the impact is huge the impact of reality tv i mean we live in a reality show now so yes uh the impact of it is untenable like everything and we get to vote people in and out uh is an interesting component of that as well yes most tv shows you don't get to vote the host out uh in our reality we are constantly voting for a reality tv host it seems look who knows what uh survivor 50 holds uh you know right now it's all opportunity. It's all open.

It's all opportunity. Oh God, don't you dare speak that into existence. No, no. And let me also say that if you not know who we are, Josh, that's me, Antonio, that's him. We've podcasted about thousands of hours of television in our time, as Antonio mentions, typically like really prestige scripted dramas like The Leftovers or Better Call Saul, Mr. Robot, Ted Lasso, who knows if we'll ever be

talking about that one again, depending on where that could go for a fourth season. And we like to talk about those kinds of shows here on the weekend program. And our friendship, while rooted in RHAP, really has had very little otherwise, I think, to do with Survivor. Typically, even offline, we talk about different stuff. I don't think that we really talk a ton about reality television. But there was a time, once upon a time, where it was almost all that I spoke about. I'm an entertainment reporter by trade. Having been a I'm an entertainment reporter by trade.

I've done a lot of work with Parade, with The Hollywood Reporter as it pertained to Survivor, specifically for a number of years. Went out on location a number of times. Loved the show. Came by it very honestly. Was obsessed with it when it first came on. My first episode ever of the show is the Borneo finale. We're going to talk a lot about Borneo today, actually, if you want to stick around. Very fun stuff coming up.

And eventually made my way out to the island, interviewed Jeffrey, interviewed all of the castaways before the seasons would start from about season 31 until season 39, in which, for reasons, I stepped away from the show and was not at my happiest with Survivor. And I took a number of years off, some fits and starts along the way, Antonio, where I would check back in, checked in on Winners at War, of course, watched 41. And then I was like, I can't do this right now. I still need some time away. I need some time away from the show. Had a tough departure, a sudden departure with the show.

Meta-fact yourself. Don't want to eat these leftovers. At least, you know, maybe I'll eat it again, but I'd like to order it fresh. And so I took literal years off, years off from watching Survivor. For the first time in my Survivor watching existence, from the first time I started watching the show,

the longest I had ever taken a break, I think, was like a year. This was years, years that I walked away. And in the past few weeks, I'm more involved with RHAP once again. And I wanted to be conversant in Survivor. But beyond wanting to be conversant in Survivor, I did feel like sort of this like urge to be like, you know, some of these things sound pretty funny. Some of the things that seem to be happening in what is what i am to understand now is called the new era of survivor some of this stuff seems like true chicanery and i'd like to see it with my known two eyes uh yeah what's a gabler right i was very confused about what a gabler was uh and and quite frankly still i am even though i have now somebody who works on a house. I think it puts the gutters and stuff up. That sounds correct.

I have now seen from Survivors 42 through the 47 season premiere. And I know I started on this rant because I just want to be like, like, I think I'm enjoying the show about as much as I've ever enjoyed watching Survivor. Like, I think I'm enjoying the show about as much as I've ever enjoyed watching Survivor. And I feel like that's probably a hot take because I think the vast majority of people who have stuck with Survivor all the way through have like axes to grind when it comes to like new era twists. And I can't believe we're still in three tribes. And can we please stop with the mergatory and definitely with like the end of tribal council impromptu reunion shows where these people haven't had time to emotionally process all the trauma that they've gone through and everything. Meanwhile, I'm just popping these as a binge, collecting, I would say, like maybe like 20 percent of the names in the lore as I'm going and otherwise just absorbing the vibes of the new era of Survivor viewed as a gigantic composite season of the show, Antonio, which is sort of my approach to it right now is it's just like one,

like a gestalt season of survivor. It's been a blast. I've been having so much fun watching it. It's been really, really fun. And I thought the 47 premiere had a lot going for it as well. Survivor Alexander Platts. The yeah,

the it's so fascinating. You essentially touched grass, right? You realized that you were in an unhealthy mental health position with the thing that was dominating a lot of your brain space and a lot of your... Look, and I'm not advocating on a Survivor podcast for people to detach from the attendant conversations in and around the show from being so heavily invested, but... sometimes it's good to touch grass. Uh, they, I believe that there is a whole saying,

uh, about, uh, something that absence turns your heart grows. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I think it's the old expression. Uh, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Absence does something else to your heart. It makes the heart grow stranger for sure yeah yeah yeah so i mean like whether it's absence from the survivor or something else i think like generally just in life uh you know i mean i've walked away from tv shows scripted shows before and then would come back to them and be like i'm really glad i took a break i wasn't ready i needed to binge that instead of watching that weekly i think often just like walking away from a thing for a bit gives you new perspective on a thing that you really love. Sometimes that perspective is going to be like, nope, not for me still. And then other times it's gonna be like, man, I missed that. And

I'm so glad to be checking that back out again. It's that part for me. It's the change your perspective on something. If you recognize that you're myopic or you are zeroed in on one way of thinking, or if you're in a silo or an echo chamber, it can be very rewarding to get different perspectives on the ways that we as a society and certainly like the most specific niches that we can. And niche is a funny word to think about in this context, because it did come up on this week's episode as well, regarding the kind of content, niche content in this industry that is present and that you can engage with if you are really a fan. And I'm not encouraging that everyone should do this, but I think generally in society, this isn't even about Survivor or podcast or focusing on one thing. I think when you are able to shift your perspective on something that you're in so deep on, you can often get such a new, rewarding perspective, and it can really make you feel

better and different about a thing that you love. And so for me with Survivor, like, there are other things about current Survivor that frustrate me, sure, but I reached a breaking point about 10 seasons ago. Right. And once I broke that breaking point, I've been able to enjoy the show instead of getting progressively more angry at it. It's sort of detached with it.

And I can appreciate the things about it that I used to appreciate with the deep strategy discussions and the emergent gameplay and the ways that the thing is evolving and all of that. I can have those conversations and I'm happy to have them with you here today. But I'm also happy to look at the show more like a casual sometimes. And re-watching Borneo really helped. And again, we're going to get into this because later in the episode, Josh, can I tease what we're going to do? Yes, please do.

So a lot of this perspective shifting is happening with the historical narrative, especially in and around our current events and our popular culture events. So we live in a world where there are people who are going to know about the Monica Lewinsky scandal, not because they lived through it or read about it, but because they watched American Crime Story and saw the portrayal of the Clinton Lewinsky scandal there and play out that way. And that will be history for them. So coming up this fall is a film that's called Saturday Night, and it is about the beginning of Saturday Night Live. It's got people playing the celebrities, just like they do on all the American crime story shows and other modern history shows like that. So there are people playing real people. There are famous actors playing famous actors in some cases. And we thought, what if they did a TV series about Survivor Borneo? So we're going to talk about what that would look like from a scripted perspective.

And we are going to cast Survivor Borneo series in our final segment here today. But this is a long way of me saying that rewatching Survivor Borneo in preparation from that reminded me of what the game used to make me feel like and what it used to be about. Jeff gives that big speech at the beginning of this episode, like he always does at the beginning of a Survivor season, where he talks about how Survivor has always been about people forced into some strange situation where they have to come up with tribal dynamics and new rules and find a way to reestablish society in a removed place. But the interesting thing about Survivor is layered on top of that is this game that's being played at all times.

So he gives that big speech. And I think it's fascinating to think about what that layer really is and what your view of that show, what your view of that speech is, Josh, in light of the perspective shift you've experienced and the ways that you've just binged through the new era of Survivor. How much of the forming a society elements do you even see in the game? Is the game the spice at the layer? Is it the root layer? What's going on? What are we really doing when we participate in, watch, engage with a new season of Survivor? Well, so I'm the co-author of an audio book called The Evolution of Strategy, which you can purchase on the various RHAP apparatuses. I believe it is available on the Patreon currently. And it is called The Evolution of Strategy. And in every single chapter, Rob Sesternino, who hopefully you know, and I went through all of Survivor 1 through 50 and talked about the moves and talked about like the gameplay.

We talked about it from the historical perspective, too. Did you say 1 through 50? Did I say 1 through 50? I meant 1 through 30. You sure did. I was like, man, if I time traveled, don't do this to me. Don't make me disassociate actively on a podcast, please. No, this was this was a big mistake for me to make that faux pas because now people will be like, Oh,

where's the next one? It's not in development folks. It's not, it's presently on, not happening. How many patrons? How many pay? I don't know.

You know, we kind of, I maybe missed that window for a different project, but we would talk about that. So we would talk about the character stuff as well, of course, but it was really focused on the game. And now in like walking away from covering it regularly and being as in it

as I was, I come out on it the other side and like, I can't really make hide nor heads, heads, nor tails, hides nor hair of what the heck is going on in terms of like, what is optimal to do what should you do on survivor anymore there's beware advantages there's knowledge is powers advantages there's all like the the era of there's too many idols has really evolved into something completely different and i think the people who are like really hung with it and i think like that's podcast listeners but it also seems,

you know, like a lot of these people who are getting onto the show now we're past like the era of like the Mac der, right. The model actor who gets cast on the show and claims to be a fan, but hasn't watched a wink of survivor. I authentically believe that these people on the show right now are people who watch survivor by and large. Yeah.

And just consume it very differently than the people who are listening to this podcast or listening to the other niche programming across RHAP. By the way, niche podcasting one, popular podcasting zero as of the Survivor 47 premiere. Thank you. Just got to put that out there. Yep. It has nothing to do with politics, baby. It's all about the niche. It has nothing to do with politics baby It's all about the niche

So for me I am not focused Really all that much on the game I say that while at the same time While Gabe And is it TK who comes up on him In this episode While he's like looking for

Like he's pulling the thing off the side Of the cliff And like TK's like oh my god So you found it and then like Gabe's immediately the thing off the side of the cliff. Divine, yeah. And like, TK's like, oh my God, so you found it? And then like Gabe's immediately like, not in. He's like, wait, but no, I didn't find it. It's just like, I skipped a step. And TK's like, can you do that? And I was just sitting there being like, Gabe, Gabe.

I'm like Walter White banging on the window. Gabe, you got to get back. They're coming, Gabe. Like, you're just like, what a bad move. What are you doing? So I found out on Wednesday night this past week that apparently I do still care about how people play this game or don't play this game.

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music that I've ever heard in my entire life I was like what's so wrong with the aligning with an old person it was just like dun dun dun it's like what the hell they didn't do anything wrong they just aged relax they probably did something wrong if they're on the show if you're on Survivor then he

probably did something wrong that's funny it's not purgatory not purgatory it's not purgatory they didn't all die at the beginning so like i i care about i care about how the game is played but i care much more about like is your like i care much more about the characters it's actually what i tend to care about with t with tv generally is like are as the character work good, then great. I was a little alarmed when I found out that I was going to be stepping into 46 and 45. I watched them in reverse order and that I'd be stepping into these 90 minute episodes

and it seemed like a lot and it is a lot, but it does give room for more like character focused moments, I think. I think you do get like a decent picture of like the vibes of these people and some of the casting across the board of the new era has been just unbelievable. And like I think like some of my fondest memories of binging this new era so far are moments like Cody in the immunity hat. I love I think Cody is insane.

I think Cody like feels like like Cody feels like a fictional character if you wanted to talk about who from Survivor across the years doesn't feel like a real person and actually feels like a scripted character Cody feels like a scripted character to me like that does not feel like a person who exists for real what was my comparison he's like part Hans part Brian Heideck part

Fanny Rooster like yeah just like he is it doesn't seem like like he does seem like a character. He's a McConaughey character. He really is. I was thrilled that you liked Cody. I loved Cody. I was thrilled that you liked Cody.

Yeah. It makes all the sense in the world to me that you really like that. I love the slice of life stuff in Survivor. I love the character stuff. I think you're onto something there. And so I do think there was a time, you know,

Jeff's speech about, you know, the game is layered on top of this society building thing. First of all, I think those layers are out of whack. I think the game layer is more predominant than the society building at this point entirely. But second, I think they're all layered on top of the reality TV era that Survivor helped turbocharge

and that it is now, you're right, the people that they're putting on the show have seen the show. They've watched reality TV for their whole lives in most instances. And so they know how to be on TV and they're cognizant of the fact that they're making a TV show. And so that part of it is so absent from the earlier seasons of Survivor, specifically Borneo, before everything goes massive and everybody that just appearing on Survivor makes you a celebrity for that time. But before that, when it's Borneo and these people didn't really know what they were doing, they didn't know how popular it would be.

They weren't cognizant of that. It was a much more pure product in that respect when it came to, well, we're going to remove people from society. We're going to take away the trappings of their day-to-day lives, and we're going to remove people from society. We're going to take away the trappings of their day-to-day lives. And we're going to see what happens when we put them into tribes and encourage them to vote one another out every three days. Now, because the show's on Fiji, in Fiji every single season, because it's in the same place every single season, that's why we're still getting Survivor because they can make it

more economically and they have like a consistent production hub. But we're still getting Survivor now in a way that means it's iterative, that the seasons cannot rest on different locations or different vibes to change the way the season looks. So it really is a show now that that much more so than previous seasons, which might have had an interesting location or premise that affected the vibe of of the whole season it is a show that rests entirely on the cast now uh they're doing the same things other survivors have done andy has a confessional in this episode like i've watched other survivor seasons i know the way the opening challenges are but never has there been one this grand and i was like andy i don't think that's right but uh for sure he's absolutely incorrect

about that but but uh it that's like these are the people like this is what they're doing they're they're part of survivor fiji season 10 or whatever it is at this point uh they're not part of survivor i mean they are part of survivor 47 uh but it's survivor fiji's by being survivor fiji season 10 it's also its own television show that is different than the rest of survivors you're observing it's different in cast it's different in style it's similar uh but it's different uh and we count um the original survivor fiji as fiji one i think it's a prequel i think that's like season zero right that's season zero then if it's one then we're up to fiji 16 if it's zero then we're up to fiji 15 i think which i Which I think was also a running gag Rob had in Quick Maths.

For Cook Islands. Yeah, Survivor Cooks Island season, yes. Cooks Island. We're several Cook Islands into the run at this point. We are. But yes, so I think the area of nature of constantly going back to Fiji has just fundamentally changed the show. And I think you can accept that and you can move on from that,

or you can continue to let that annoy you or piss you off. And after a time, it's just like, well, I have to look at it. Like we're lucky. We're still getting survivor. And if this is how I have to get it,

I still like it enough that I can't wait to watch every week. So that's where I'm at with it. And I'm so glad you caught back up, but I'm so glad you were able to do so in a healthy way. Well, the, the thing that I'll say too is, so I really, really enjoyed binging multiple seasons of survivor. I know tons of people who like were not day one watchers or did not watch live for the majority of it, or the majority of their experience at least was through like

watching DVDs and like crushing seasons. And so these people can't like sort your, like they couldn't tell you which season Rupert was on. They could just tell you that Rupert had the tie dye shirt or whatever. And many of these people, by the way, then would go on to become Survivor players themselves. And you'd be like, how does that person not know a lot about the show?

It's like, actually they do, but it's like this more intrinsic thing than they know every single specific detail and could put all the logos together. Hunter. And so I, I, I really enjoyed that experience for myself because I hadn't had it before. But on Wednesday night, Survivor 47 premieres and I am, God help me, on the app formerly known as Twitter and tweeting, on the app formerly known as Twitter, and tweeting, if you call it that still,

about the show alongside all of these other, many of them were like familiar usernames to me, people who I haven't interacted with in years, some people brand new. And like, it is, this is nothing new for many of the people who are listening to this right now. But it was like a nice reminder for me that one of the reasons why I love this show so much is the community piece,

which is what Jeff talks about for me. Certainly it's community over the game. And it's really about like a survivor as, as sports, right? Like it's close in many ways. It's closer to that than it is to scripted TV. Certainly,

you know, it is, it is this huge event where you've got rooting interests and like human error can completely upend a carefully crafted storyline or plot. And the other piece of that, too, is somebody who's not a huge sports guy, quasi famously, but is a big or has been a big survivor guy. Is that like this is what i get out of it is that like live interactive component to it uh whether it's like the friends that i have in my life who i'll talk to a little bit about the show uh like in like my brick and mortar life or the people who like i mostly interact with on the internet and see in person like once every blue moon if ever uh these are the people who like, we're making jokes. We're making the same joke. We're all obsessing over Rome in a well.

I'm going to think about Rome every single day for the rest of my life, except it's Rome in a well is what I'm going to be imagining. The fall of Rome in a well. And I'm going to be, that's it. That's the fall. That's my fall of Rome

is what he did into the well. There's going to be like, you know, going to be five people who will be as obsessed with the Kathy Bates Matlock commercials as I am. But I'm not going to get those on a binge. I'm only going to get those live. I'm bringing all that up, especially as the weekend program exists on a sub-podcast here on RHAP. on a sub podcast here on RHAP. We're part of the We Know Scripted TV brand where we're ostensibly talking about your Game of Thrones and your only murders in the buildings and industry and all of that.

I think that one of the conversations that sometimes you and I have here, Antonio, on this podcast is like a little bit of like an old man shaking fist at Sky of like the ways in which the industry has changed and the medium has changed. And for years, I think you and I have been standing watch as people talk about the water cooler TV era is over. Not true. Clearly, like that's what that's why RHAP exists. In many ways, I think this is why Survivor exists. Survivor is not just about the communities that are being forged out there on the show.

If anything, they are much more about this very niche community that exists around Survivor, whether it's the nichiest of communities in like podcast hubs and things like that, or I would even say Survivor itself. It used to be the most massive show on the planet. It still has tons of name recognition, but it is like when you meet a Survivor fan in the wild, you're like, ah, and now suddenly you could have nothing to talk about with that person before,

and now you've got so much that you can say. Like, it is a secret language. You speak Survivor. Survivor shibboleth. The community aspect of Survivor is the sauce for me. The food and sauce for me is the community aspect of Survivor shibboleth. The community aspect of Survivor is the sauce for me. The food and sauce for me is the community aspect of Survivor. And that was missing from the binge. That was a big part of why I kind of wanted to like re-approach the show because I was missing that.

And then watching an episode live for the first time in forever. That was like that like TV dopamine hit that I haven't had since like succession, maybe. Wow. That's because you don't, you're not a sports guy. That's part of that. You're right. Cause it is, it is similar to sports and I don't know if they still call it tweeting. I think I might call it contributing, but that's fine. I wish you could do it somewhere else. The you were contributing your thoughts. That's for sure. Colluding. Yes. No collusion. The the thing about the funny thing about survivor in sports if you watch the nfl on sunday and cbs they're heavily promoting survivor throughout as they're promoting matlock and

all their other uh prime time programming uh and the key that the key tag or the tag from uh they had the the promos for survivor this year that they read during the nfl is like get your tribe together and watch survivor grab your tribe and watch survivor. They're essentially, I think, promoting to families. The show leans in on the family aspect and they know, I mean, they've been making the show forever. They've talked to fans of the show forever. They've interacted with them. They've, they've been making TV for a long time. They know survivor is a show that families watch together and still can and still do. They make that with that in mind. Uh, it's funny, it's dramatic. It's all the things that it is. Uh, and still do. They make that with that in mind. It's funny. It's dramatic.

It's all the things that it is. And they do that for families and for people to watch and talk about communally. And so the tribe aspect reflects what's happening on the show. The show is about people coming together and sharing this experience that you kind of had to be there, right? Like, if you don't know, then you don't know. If you weren't out there, you don't really understand what it was like, not just to be on Survivor, to be in the elements, to have the TV cameras around you, to have the only people that you really interact with being either the people that smell like you or the production team who hopefully doesn't. And you don't know. So it is already a show that rests around the building of community,

the forming of community. And it makes sense that therefore it's reflected in the way the show's audience really buys in and interacts with it. I love that about Survivor. I miss that about live sports. I miss not being part of like the, you know, the sphere where those things are being talked about in a live way and rapid fire way. But I will say, I still think that I can appreciate the show. I do appreciate the show without that. So I know like lots of kids growing up right now who are maybe like,

I don't know, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old in that range. They're watching the new seasons with their family. But if they want to watch those old seasons, if they want to see Richard Hatch and Rudy palling it up there in Survivor Borneo, then they have to go watch. They have to binge it. And so there are going to be people, most new fans of the show, any new fans of the show that come around,

that's how they're going to catch up on the old stuff is not having that community. So eventually, I do think that the community will still be made of active people who are huge Survivor fans, but it'll also be a lot of people who haven't seen all the seasons and who will catch up on it at their leisure on Paramount Plus or wherever they can find it. And I think that both groups can come to really enjoy the show. I don't think the show is just popular. I don't think there is no such thing as a Survivor casual anymore. That used to be something that we would laugh about with derision on RHAP over the years. We would check in on the RHAP Facebook groups. Or not RHAP, but the Survivor Facebook groups.

The Survivor, yeah, CBS groups, yep. I don't think there are Survivor casuals anymore. I do think there are. I'm sorry, I don't think Survivor casuals are dead. I think we still have plenty of Survivor casuals out there, but it's hard to find them if you are part of the hardcore audience. And more and more, we are finding ways to silo ourselves into these tribes of like minded people. And so a lot of the discourse will be people who watch it all the time and who aren't the casual viewers.

And we are shedding more and more of those people and more and more of the people that are involved with the people who have seen it all. So the tribe around Survivor has evolved and will continue to evolve. I saw the ratings this week. They were number one in the demo. They were double what the number two show in the demo got. And I think that's what they're focusing on live ratings wise now. So as a show that still has live cachet, most other shows do not. Survivor is more like sports in that regard, where it's probably still a more valuable property.

I think they'll continue making it as long as they want to keep making it. I mean, they've survived basically every kind of scandal you could imagine from the beginning of Survivor until now. So I would be shocked if there was some scandal that brought them down. I think they'll continue to make it

as long as they feel like making it because I think it will always be a valuable program. Probst, I believe it was in Variety. There was a Variety, if not cover story, a really big article about Jeff and the state of the show. And he like in the article, like very casually just drops,

like he's not just thinking about 50 right now. He's not just, he has to be thinking about 51 and he's not just thinking about 51. He's thinking about 60. And I remember, you know, back when I was in some of those circles, like some of those producers, like one in particular, who I'm imagining right now being like, I know like people are thinking about 40 right now.

I'm trying to get Jeff to think about 60. And so like Jeff is thinking in that direction. So I don't see Survivor coming off the air anytime soon. It's exactly like you say, like, yeah, it's in Fiji. It's always in Fiji. But like the costs are very manageable for that show. The people involved in making that show, by and large, there's not a ton of turnover.

At least there wasn't back when I was, you know, watching over it. There's a lot like for better and for worse, the people who are on that squad love making it and get along with each other uh or at least love the show enough to to put up with each other like a tribe uh in its own right uh and i think like the big one at the top is like as long as jeff wants to keep making it jeff's gonna keep making it uh it's profitable for uh for cbs for paramount like i see

i see no real end in sight. That's, I think, a good thing, ultimately. I think so. I think where the show can iterate if they want to and if they're thinking about 60 and if they're going to stay in Fiji this whole time, I do think the show needs to find ways to evolve within Fiji that aren't just

let's throw in new strategy, let's throw in new rewards, etc. I think the show needs to evolve from aiji that aren't just let's throw in new strategy. Let's throw in new rewards, et cetera. I think the show needs to evolve from a content perspective more. I do miss the society building elements. Yes. And I do wish that the show would find ways to incentivize that more. I don't know exactly what that looks like now.

Now, like the first challenge, for example, it's like, if you win, you get Flint and you get a pot and you get everything that you need for your fire and to eat essentially. And then if you lose, well, you're going to get another chance to get that. Only one tribe is not going to get it. But that's just like a survival element. I do wish that perhaps there was more incentive on like forming a society in your tribe. in part because there's this huge debate over whether alliances are moral, right? Whether it's moral to even form an alliance where instead of voting for who you think is the right person to

leave, you vote who the right person, a group of four people thinks is to leave. And how is that fair? You're essentially ganging up on someone. Answering those kinds of societal questions on a season of Survivor, I think, is an honorable aim and an interesting one. And I think in a world where you're going to be in Fiji all the time, and so the sights and sounds are going to be exactly the same every time. I do think that there's probably a world where they should be looking to evolve the kind of things that they're incentivizing or rewarding in the game. evolve the kind of things that they're incentivizing or rewarding in the game. And so some of that could be building tribes that are more, that have more coherent sets of rules, or they could have like shelter building challenges like they used to, right? Where someone would come by and check your shelter and determine if you built a better shelter,

and whoever did would get a reward, and on and on and on. There are things that they've done in the past and things that they haven't done yet that I think they could do to incentivize some more of that. Part of the problem, though, is they're on this 28-day cycle now. So everything is turbocharged. And it's every survivor, 26, 28, whatever it is. Yeah, it's even less than 28. I'm thinking of the moon cycle. One more than days later. Yes, one, no more, two less or wait. I'm not the the the situation in that that Mark Burnett wrote a book basically about the about Borneo.

And when he talked about Borneo in that book, he said one of the best things about Survivor is it peels back layers to reveal a person's essence. That's what he says about the early version of Survivor. And I think it just Band-Aid rips them off now. Like, I don't think it peels anything. I think we immediately rip these layers back. One of my big gripes with Modern Survivor, Josh, is like how many people are getting out there and having an unfortunate experience pretty much right away. And how many people are like upset about their Survivor experience. We need to do more to not put people in that position. I hate watching that. hated seeing andy so miserable for example this week it really hurt my heart man yeah yeah it was tough um i i think um you know one of one of the things that i really enjoyed uh about the the new era seasons and watching them so quickly uh you know they kind of do sort of all blob together to a certain extent.

And I actually kind of liked that. I kind of like looking at this new era as like it's an ongoing chapter. I would like to see them shake it up as well. Like I'm actually like maybe a really spicy take is I'm very pro Survivor 50 just being new era returnees. I think that that's actually not the worst idea in the world

and give this 40s, give this section of Survivor history a really cool thing to build towards and then let's go on the other side of the mountain and see what new terrain can be forged. But I also think that

one of the things that really stood out to me Was something that was very old school To the point that even during the reunion Probst was like, let me ask y'all a question What do you guys think about that? And that thing that he's asking them about Is the return of the auction And the auction, I actually thought that they were able to

Really modernize it in a cool way They're able to have their idle hunt and eat it too And so there's like Go and get all the money that you can from the woods And that's the money that you have modernize it in a cool way they're able to have like their idle hunt and eat it too uh and so like there's like go and get all the money that you can from the woods and that's the money that you have uh there's gonna be no uh advantages in here this is just pure good tv like this is just like good old fun time survivor uh i think that you're right about like uh like the um the uh the like the shelter challenges uh sos stuff like there is like i don't know that we can bring blair witch back uh but like there are some class i don't know i don't know uh there's

some classic challenges that i actually think uh that um sometimes there seems to be this pressure within survivor to keep like iterating and iterating and iterating and doing new and new and newer things but i think that there is a lot of wisdom to uh what was once old is new again and I think like some of the things that they've done in their 47 seasons and counting history in the past like uh like I'm a proponent of they abandoned the one world format too soon I think like strand them all on a beach together Antonio I think strand them all on a beach together antonio i think strand them all on a beach together give them all tablets uh like little like stone tablets to write that what would your 10 commandments of survivor be and based on some criteria that gets graded this group

seems to be a like-minded tribe this group seems to be a like-minded tribe we're like tallying up the results based on what they so like can you do stuff like that like can you divide tribes philosophically uh based on is that too esoteric is that a little bit too in the cloud i don't know but i think that the format warrants that kind of exploration uh and i think that like whether or not you get that in the u.s version of the show you certainly see that a lot in um international versions you know these kinds of iterations and it's been very heartening to see like a lot of actual um like mainstream media recognition like npr had a big article about this i forget maybe was it the wall street journal that had an article about homegrown survivors as well like your survivor marylands of

the world and survivor new york and things like that and the way that like people could just like take survivor and bring it home with them uh and and like you know like you don't have to get on the show and embarrass yourself in front of millions of people in order to get the high of the show uh so i don't know like the the i guess i really don't care about the game all that much ultimately but i do care about like the experience that it provides whether uh it's the the people who are playing it uh but more importantly the people who are who are viewing it um i'm enjoying i'm getting a lot out of it right now because it feels new to me again and it's a little harder for me to weigh in on someone like you antonio who you have stuck with the show like you have not taken that break um you know like i think whatever the season was that tommy

won i didn't watch it all i have to admit i bailed about halfway through that's the one i left too by the way yeah at 39 yeah i left that i left that i i that is the only one i i checked out of entirely i've watched that is also the only one i've never finished as well uh i will see we'll see someday if i if i if i get yeah. Yeah, I... Go through it. Probably have a very different POV about this stuff. Yeah, I just... I mean, I think you're right. For me, it's just sort of like,

okay, there's plenty of advantages. I get it. And now this advantage, you have to decide. I love games, man. I love board games. I love video games. I love playing games. I like strategy games.

I'm all for that being part of what's happening. I just think games. I love playing games. I like strategy games. I'm all for that being part of what's happening. I just think that I've sort of, especially in revisiting Borneo, but also like, I'm glad that you brought up Survivor Maryland. Shout out to Austin Trupp for the great work on Survivor Maryland. That was something I didn't necessarily expect to like. I was like, oh man, it's going to be handheld cameras. I'm going to get dizzy. I'm not going to feel great about what's happening. What's the quality going to be like on the sound? Look, I loved watching it, but what I really loved about watching it was it felt like it had the more classic elements of survivor tribe building, society building, relations, just the way that

the characters weren't part of a machine that was like, okay, this is the first survivor challenge of the season. Now we get to this thing. Now we get to that milestone. Now we get to this thing. Now you did that. Now you did this. Now there was not a lot of navel gazing.

It was just like, hey, we're going to put you guys in this situation. We're going to film how you get through it. Everybody's going to have sort of a different way that they're trying to get through it. I like that about Borneo going back to it. It's like, oh, some people have a different strategy than others. And sometimes the strategy is terrible and sometimes it's cover and sometimes it's not. Sometimes there isn't a strategy. So I just think that the more we can put like disparate groups of people who have different backgrounds and who can find commonalities through what they're doing, the better. I'm not saying we need to go back to Macters, but I think the new era of Survivor,

everybody's seen so much Survivor and everybody has been like participating in offline Survivor and building challenges in their backyard. And I don't, I love those people. Those are my people to a certain extent, but I think we need more of a mix on the show. And sometimes that mix gets really bad when only like two or three people really know how to play the game. And the game is demanding people who really know how to play the game. So some of that is game design. If you want a real mix of people who can succeed at what goes on, the game can't be so much about a hardcore strategy of the optimal way to use each individual idol or whatever. I think we need to unbreak the game. I think the game got broken by really smart people.

And I think we need to unbreak it by designing it in a way that is not rewarding the most emergent thinking that maybe rewards more relationship building, society building, different kinds of gameplay. Everything's so fast and action-y now. And it's good. It's entertaining, but it's not the same. And I think they could redesign some elements of the game

and not lean in on that. But I'm not making a TV show. That's the big part of the problem. They're making a TV show where they have to keep the number. If the number doesn't go up or if the number goes down big time, that's curtains for Survivor. They know this works to get a baseline of viewers and to keep people satisfied. We're going to keep getting that common denominator rather than, I think, bold strategy,

bold moves in terms of the way that the show is being made. I think we're just going to get more of the same. So we can dream all we want and we can idealize some of the past like we might be wanting to do here with regard to scripted tv as well uh the fact of the matter is as long as we enjoy what we're doing currently i think it's okay i think we're in good i think we're in good shape and look if your relationship with the show is so deep that you can't enjoy what they're doing currently because you're still so mad about what they're not doing or what it used to be that's the perfect time to maybe press

pause i recommend touching grass touching grass get a better appreciation of it and get it you about what they're not doing or what it used to be. That's the perfect time to maybe press pause. I recommend touching grass, touching grass, get a better appreciation of it and get it, you know, get a better lens on the healthy parts of your relationship with it. And then cater to those healthy parts. And don't spend a lot of time caught up in the parts that are making you so angry about it.

That's, that's the part for me is like, if I'm not liking this, I know I can just, I can just turn it off. Yeah the part for me. If I'm not liking this, I know I can just detach now. Yeah. All I can tell you is if I am able to now enjoy Survivor

by and large for Rome sticking half his body down a well, and that's primarily the thing that I'm thinking about, you can do it too. No doubt. Although therapy helps, right? Therapy is helpful as well. Therapy is helpful as well. do it too uh yeah do it too no doubt although although therapy helped right like therapy is helpful as well therapy is helpful as well antony we went back or really you went back specifically

uh for this podcast all the way back to the beginning of survivor survivor borneo uh you re-watched the original season of the show streaming on Paramount Plus. You read the aforementioned official companion book to Survivor written by Mark Burnett and with Martin Dugard. And you've also thought a lot about. Could you turn this thing into a show? Yeah. Could you turn this thing into a movie? to a show yeah but you turn this thing into a movie and so we needed to find like some way to vaguely connect survivor to scripted tv in order to justify doing it on the podcast this week and

also i feel like this could potentially be a fun start of survivor season tradition here to then take a season of survivor that has previously aired and try to scriptify it can we make a good movie out of this can we make a good show out of this? Can we make a good show out of this? Gotta start at the beginning if that's what we're going to do. And so that is what we're going to do. We're going to cast Survivor Borneo, the show or the movie? What do you think here, Antonio?

Listen, I think you gave this idea here a little bit of a short shrift because you're just like, hey, we were trying to come up with a way to connect it. I thought you were inspired. I said, hey, could Survivor be like this SNL, like the Saturday night type movie? Could you do a movie about the start of Survivor Borneo and the people that were involved?

And you said, no, it's a TV show. It's at least a 10 episode show because here's how you do it. Then you went in and you talked about how you're on the island. And guess what? Since it's an island show, you can do flashbacks off the island and you can do each individual character's flashback the boot episode uh can be like the episode we're getting their flashbacks or we understand what brought them to this to the island or we get some more depth uh that we didn't necessarily get we understand why they were playing some of that

stuff a lot of that stuff is in the mark burnett book uh where you know if you were going to say okay how are we doing bb anderson in survivor the tv show it's like well mark burnett's book talks about how bb anderson has this background and here's all the things that he did and here was what it was like getting him on the show and blah blah blah blah so there's a lot of uh more there's a lot of interesting stuff there i mean these were the people who became icons and certainly survivor australia uh even more so right uh but these this first cast was iconic. I mean, this was the everybody's watching 53 million viewers or whatever finale that it's like we knew who these people were. They returned home as celebrities in many cases

and returned back to Survivor as celebrities and remained in society as celebrities for a good long while as a result of being on Survivor. So you're right. There's a lot of there there. And I think it's a TV show more so than a movie. And it's certainly a TV show I would watch, especially in the world where there's a show called The Offer.

Are you familiar with The Offer, Paramount Plus? I am familiar with The Offer. Yes. The Making of the Godfather. The Making of the Godfather. Robert Evans being like an insane person. And it's like there's so much that went into that uh that they made a whole ass show about the making of it we could certainly do

this about survivor borneo and i think for the hardcore fans we could do this about many other seasons of survivor as you're suggesting this could just doesn't just have to be season one can be borneo but season two can be pearl islands or all-stars or okay so who's the showrunner here is this is this like a ryan murphy survivor horror story type of situation like a survivor crime story american tribe story no that's totally different uh like who is going to handle this is it a mike white property uh like it almost has to be like my wife and race right you know what is the, well, okay, so if we're talking about, like, survivors

who have had success in the field of writing and television, hard to get more successful than Mike White. You know, certainly with The White Lotus that I think is incredibly survivor-inspired. Like, it is a very, it is a deeply

survivor-coded TV show. Rafe Judkins of Guatemala, the incredibly survivor inspired like it is of course it is a deeply survivor coded tv show uh Rafe Judkins of Guatemala the uh the third place finisher prolific tv writer now showrunner of the wheel of time late of agents of shield so like you could really get maybe that epic fantasy version of survivor yeah from from Rafe uh wright could give you the animated version right you know him and cochran could take it to like you know some sort of below deck below buffs kind of kind of deal but what would we be looking at tonally here i think uh i think the ryan murphy stuff is a good is a good uh i kind of feel like that as well yeah yeah i don't i love those shows personally uh specifically uh the oj one i've watched three or four times now probably more I kind of feel like that as well. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love those shows personally. Uh, specifically, uh,

the OJ one I've watched three or four times now, probably more than that. Honestly, uh, the Kunan one is terrifying, but very good. Uh, and then the,

I did not like the Clinton Lewinsky one, but if they do a fourth season of some other scandal, I'm sure I'll tune in. Uh, because I, I find it interesting. Like I said earlier, not just from the,

oh, who is like Clive Owen played Bill Clinton. And honestly, I thought it was an unknown actor. I did not know it was Clive Owen until after I looked it up, after I binged it. I said, oh shit, that was a lot of prosthesis. So there is like that version of it where it's like fun to think about who they cast to play the person.

And oftentimes it's somebody who looks a lot like them. Sometimes it isn't. It's just vibes and energy. So a lot of that went into the casting ideas that I came up with. But more than that, I think it's fun on the Ryan Murphy type shows. Like I said, to see what the official narrative version of events ends up being, they always adapt a book, which is in and of itself a narrative version of events that may or may not contain all the information uh so these like things as history present a very interesting opportunity to have a take on like the impact of a thing uh so we're not like look we're not breaking season one of survivor borneo today maybe that's a different podcast we could do maybe that's a different project we should work on, but we are going to, we are going to drop some cast ideas.

I think that's, that's for sure. Okay. Well, so I do think that there's just a ton of lore that you could draw on to make this show, whether it's the Burnett book, as you're saying,

or what we see in the actual survivor Borneo, the various stories that have emerged from this cast over the years, some of it not so savory, some of it funnier than you could imagine. I think you would want to see a ton of that baked into here, which is the reason why I would otherwise say, Paramount, Probst, while the show is on like do this like make this like I think like you know like get your finders fee back on Jeff like

let's like let's make this show but I think it would be impossible to do that without it sort of you know having like that PR stench to it and I think like the real version of this show has to be made by someone who wasn't quite that in it or at least doesn't have that same level of fidelity otherwise it's not going to be made by someone who wasn't quite that in it or at least doesn't have that same

level of fidelity otherwise it's not going to be as interesting and true as you would need it to be but i would watch the shit out of a 10 episode um borneo show uh sounds like you need to write survivor borneo the unauthorized story and then that can be adapted into the television program i'm out of the game uh Most I'll do is podcast. Sounds like Rob needs to podcast. Somebody else. Somebody else can take that. Unauthorized story.

This idea is whoever can take it and run with it. You know, give Antonio some, you know, a writer's credit. I want nothing to do with it. Put me in the room. Yeah, put Antonio in the room. I'll take a phone call. That's it. Okay. Well, so I have some, I'm very curious to get your casting takes, in the room yeah put antonio in the room i i'll take a phone call that's it um okay uh well so i

have some uh i'm very curious to get your casting takes especially because you just re-watched borneo and it's been a minute since i've gone back and checked it out i'd like i have like a couple that come to mind for me but we have to be like a little bit unstuck in time for some of mine to work yeah a couple of mine are are sort of like you play you play fast and loose with that we're watching a bad show right now i'll call it a bad show bad monkey uh and in the story of bad monkey in the book the character neville is 64 years old right in the tv program he's like in his 20s right or his early 30s uh and so sometimes you have to change things for narrative sometimes you have to change it for real i think we we'd have to change this for casting in some instances, though not all. I think we've got some good, I've got some good ideas, I think, on most people. Okay, kick us off. Where do you want to go? Well, I don't want to,

you said you've got a couple that you feel really good about. I wonder, I don't want to steal any of yours. I'll start with mine. The sort of first thing that popped into my head when you did this is, well, who plays Richard Hatch? And I thought i only one name for richard hatch and it's an actor that i love most of the people on my list by the way are people that i like and want to see do more stuff sure so that's a big part of like what influenced me but give me garrett dillahunt to play richard hatch garrett dillahunt to play richard hatch is fascinating i think he looks a lot like him and I think he can play all aspects of the interesting elements that make up Richard Hatch's personality. There's a softness and yet there is a steel about Richard Hatch, right?

There is a funny aspect to him, but there's also like, Oh, this guy's a villain. And like Garrett Dillahunt can do all of that. We've seen him do all of that. We've seen him do the, the nice We've seen him do the nice, I'm just trying to do a good thing here. I'm just a decent man trying to be friendly in Justified when he pops up in that final season of Justified. Just looking to buy some property. I'm just trying to be nice here. Don't be mean to me. We've seen him be the sniveling kind of like dirty, bad villain guy in Deadwood and everything really in between.

Like I just love Garrett Dillahun. I think he's a fantastic actor and I think he could pull off Richard Hatch. Nevermind the fact that he looks a lot like him. I think we, I think you have to go bigger. I think, I think you need, like, I think you need, this is probably got to be like your A-listiest casting is Richard Hatch short of maybe Probst himself or burnett uh or where or where i saw that for sure and i thought first boot i i got sonia as a of a lister just for oh

yeah yeah yeah you only need it for one episode um so that's where my head went and when it went there the only name uh and it was really the face uh and then thinking about him in a few specific scenes that came to mind and for me paul giamatti as richard hatch interesting is where i went uh paul giamatti as richard hatch like i could just imagine him during hand on a hard idol like and i wish you good luck uh as he like steps off and goes to eat those orange slices giamatti no stranger to tv he led billions for billions of seasons and i believe he's about to be in the hostile tv show based on the hostile eli roth movie so his standards are low uh i was gonna say sounds like this would be a step up this may have this could have been a

different situation if he had uh if he had snagged an oscar for the holdovers but he did not and so jimati is still achievable and available uh and i think would be an incredible a-lister to put on uh richard hatch i i like that i think that it does not i for me that wouldn't capture what uh the vibe of richardatch for me. I see Giamatti play anything, and I think weasel, I think sniveling, and I think that's part of Richard Hatch. But I think that I would save Paul Giamatti for survivor casting for a person who is more of those things and more of a coward. Richard Hatch was also the provider for his tribe. He was the spear.

I don't see Giamatti getting out there and getting down like that. He doesn't have the steel of Richard Hatch, but I love Giamatti, so I think he would be great in the ways that you're saying for sure. So I don't think we go wrong either way with either of those two. I mentioned I've got an A-lister in mind for Sonia Christopher.

In part because I thought, well, if you can only get him for one episode, who are you getting? In part because of the way she looked, and in part because you have to well, if you can only get them for one episode, who are you getting? In part because of the way she looked and in part because you have to be able to, in one episode, create this entirely extremely appealing ability such that it lasts and resonates throughout the ages. As a memorable survivor character, as the first boot, give me Meryl Streep to play some of your characters. Yes, yes, yes yes we know she can sing we know she can sing yeah no she can sing get her on there get her on there uh singing the uh very dated uh ukulele uh anthem about prozac or whatever that was uh yeah uh bye-bye blues

thanks to bye-bye blues uh paxton that was it uh the the late great sonja christopher uh i would i would love to see um you know i think if i were to structure this out as a tv show there would have to be at least and if not multiple episodes that take place before the game actually starts and you need like some casting in there and everything but like the sonja character would have to be like the point of view character for that first episode in which like the game has started like I think that that that's what you need and no one's going to

the gravitas to that first one out episode the way Meryl could I have no notes for you Meryl Street for Sonya Christopher for sure all right let's just go through the let's send it to Samoa let's go through the boot list then we're not spoiling Survivor Borneo

by doing so are we yeah we are but who cares you're on our HAP you be assume you either know what happened on that show in the third segment of a niche podcast in the attic yeah I think you're right we're pretty sure that you don't mind niche content creator that's me so BB Anderson 64

at the time of his uh ouster from the season at the time of the season filming 64 years old uh he looks obviously in the way that uh we did 20 years ago he looks older than uh a 64 year old now because a 64 year old actor now is trying not to look 64 uh that said some people that are in that age range, Josh, are Jason Alexander is 64 years old. This one I think would be a good B.B. Anderson. Thomas Hayden Church is 64 years old. That was ultimately where I landed

is I think Thomas Hayden Church. I would then get sad that he and Jumati's Richard Hatch would have no sideways scenes together. I'm not going to that reward and drinking any fucking merlot yeah yeah yeah uh bb no bb just wants to go home ultimately built a shelter and that was it uh yeah so he does such a good job of like playing the dope i think we have like a real field day with playing a dopey bb type yeah i think he can be a dick too and i think that there's a little bit of that in BB. He's like a captain of industry type who was not pleased with all the younger people not working on his tribe.

Right. And so I can see Thomas Hayden Church being the kind of guy that gets angry. I also put Oliver Platt in here just for funsies because as Cicero on the bear, he does play this sort of like gets annoyed with the younger people who are crazy around him energy pretty well uh and i think he's the right age range so i think he could work but i like thomas hayden church ultimately for bb yeah uh okay so we go from bb to stacy now i'm trying to just do boot order off the top of my head so stay you nailed it next yes yeah this one's tough uh stacy the lawyer from california uh and she like didn't really mesh well with sarah paulson sarah paulson is on my cast list uh

marcia marcia episode uh it's stacy stillman the stacy stillman episode of, the TV show is insane. And if you don't know why, do your research. I had Evangeline Lilly. I had Alison Brie as names for Stacey. Alison Brie is a good song. I could see Alison Brie from the Mad Men aspect of Alison Brie to little Annie Edison on Community. We know that she can play high society. We know she can play crazy we

know she can do anything in between uh so i think that there's some good like energy around alice and brie for stacy for me uh evangeline lily i was just watching and i was like oh she kind of looks like evangeline uh and there was like a vibe there i'm like oh well that's just josh bait uh but she was 27 27 at the time of filming uh which does make it trickier for really anybody to play that. You know that we've named Sarah Paulson, Evangeline Lilly, Alison Brie to play this role. None of them are in their late 20s. Everyone in our version of the show is at least 10 to 15 years older than quite. Yeah, not quite. I'm going to hit you with some names and we'll see how you feel about it, because that's where the vibes come in. It's like, is that going to work with the rest of this? So yeah. Uh, Stacy, early boot,

not a lot on the show. Uh, what do you thought you, what do you think about you just think the Marsha Marsha Marsha energy alone is the reason that you think. Well, I just think that that kind of an episode for a Stacy Stillman, uh, exit episode of survivor, the dramatic series would be incredible. And so my mind just goes to American crime story the the oj season where they have that episode uh with sarah sarah uh sarah paulson um how much thought have you given the rest of the pre-emerge because the pre-emerge is from here on it's ramona dirk and joel and i don't know if we count gretchen within that either. I have one name each for Ramona and Dirk and Joel for Ramona.

She reminded me of somebody that I had seen a little bit on the CW in the Black Lightning show. And so that's the name that I thought I really settled on. And so if for Ramona specifically, I had China and McClain, who you may know from the Disney Channel or from CW's Black Lightning. She plays Lightning on that show. I think she can do it because I think Ramona was pretty tough, but she was felled, right? She got sick early on and she was like, God, this is not who I am. I'm tough. But, you know, she was kind of struck low by the island.

So not a lot of like real dramatic stuff to work with there. was kind of struck low by the island so not a lot of like real dramatic stuff to work with there but knowing a young person who can play tough especially uh in uh china and mclean that's who i picked uh for dirk the only name i had was paul sheer uh the energy that dirk has is just so weird it's so specific right like first of all he's 23 when the show's going on but the hairline is it's gone yeah Paul Scheer fits right in with that and then anybody's ever watched the league Dr. Andre Nowick uh has extreme Dirk energy but for the Christianity uh and so I like I really think Paul Scheer is hilarious and I think he'd be a great Dirk I love it no no Joel Klug uh noted chauvinist on the show uh Joel Klug, 27 years old, kind of Captain America health health club owner type.

I had thought initially that he looked and reminded me a little bit of my guy, James Roday Rodriguez from Psych and from other shows. But I don't think the energy is right there. The energy, though, was perfect for me. She is right there. The energy, though, was perfect for me for somebody else who I like and have not, frankly, seen enough of Jimmy Tatro, who played Dylan on American Vandal, who also has seen it in Tacoma FD. He's big. He sort of has that kind of like that toxic masculine energy about him, but is able to play like, hey, why are you accusing me of that? I shouldn't you don't I don't make me own that toxic energy. That's not who i am uh even though you look at him and you're like that is who you are uh i think that that i think uh our guy uh dylan off american vandal uh aka uh what did i say his name was jimmy tatro could really pull this off yeah i was thinking uh like is joel uh somebody who like you go relatively A-list for so that you can shock him by pulling the character from the show?

So if we were to go for a younger cast, I feel like you'd go an Austin Butler route for Joel. And I feel like Austin Butler would be very committed to the part. Oh, yeah, he would. He'd be a better Dr uh, Dr. Sean, uh, in, in some regards. Uh, I think also like a great opportunity for like an actor who's not

typically known for like, uh, like comedic work could like really make a meal out of playing like such a doofus like Joel. Uh, so Charlie Hunnam comes to mind for me. That's fine. Who hasn't like gotten a lot of chances.

Like he's very, like he's very, like, you know, he's a son of an of anarchy you know he's not really here for the laughs uh but i feel like he could bring him i feel like he could bring him he's uh the gentleman the gentleman guy richie film with charlie hunnam he has to play straight uh to colin farrell's the coach role where it's an incredible role that colin farrell is doing and charlie hunnam's role in the gentleman is basically just him walking around just being annoyed with things that are happening that are like, why do I have to deal with this now?

So I think it is funny to think of him playing the comic relief type or a comic role, especially going out right after Paul Scheer would be very funny. Gretchen was interesting. Everyone loved Gretchen. Everyone loved Gretchen. She was loved Gretchen everyone loved Gretchen she was 38 when she was out there

and she is not like you know right out of central casting as anything except for what she was which was like a teacher and like the tribes kind of like mother figure at the time I struggled with Gretchen she really looks like Edie Patterson which would be so funny

I love Edie Patterson like love edie patterson so i wrote that down immediately like oh well just make well we'll just put edie patterson let her figure it out she reminds me a little bit of kristin wig as the target lady uh and so i had kristin wig on the list and then i also josh for whatever reason i just thought why don't we just put ray seahorn as uh gretchen and let her figure it out? Yeah, I think all three of those would work. I'm really inclined to think about the Edie Patterson version. And now I'm thinking about Danny McBride as Joel.

And how well that could have worked out. That could have worked out quite well. He's a great Joel. No question. Adam Devine as Dirk on the other beach. And you got all three of the gemstones. Goodman could be BB. Yeah, he could.

He could. He absolutely could. Especially this iteration of Goodman. He could also be Rudy. He could be Rudy. He could actually be a really good Rudy. Danny McBride could also be Richard Hatch, by the way. Yes, he certainly could.

Certainly could. So there are a lot of names that work across the board. I did find it very difficult with 24 year old Greg Buiss or Buiss, because like, how do you sum up what that guy was? He was a madman. I did come up with I thought was a pretty inspired or good casting. I inspired by Doja Cat. I decided, what about Joseph Quinn? Joseph Quinn. Oh, a little, some Eddie Munson. Stranger things have happened. Which is what made me think he could play the sort of more unhinged version of Greg.

I also think Joseph Quinn is like a handsome guy, but he's not really like, that's not the first thing you think of when you see Joseph Quinn. You're not like, oh, what a handsome man right away. i think the same about greg like i think uh there's a handsome guy on the island but i don't think that was my first take about greg i think i think the walk away from greg ultimately is like what a character what an interesting dude who yes it's like what you might have thought was like oh just as a handsome guy for the tribe or whatever but

at the end of the day he's he's nuts he nuts. He's the lunatic. And that's where, that's where the Eddie from stranger things part comes into me. Knowing Joseph Quinn can play like, Oh, this is supposed to be like the matinee idol type or the people that are, people are going to crush on this guy, but he's also a bit of a madman. And I think he could really play that.

I, I, and we're going to see him in fantastic four next year uh when it comes out uh but i think before i think so i think he's going to be a bigger star than he is right now uh but i think i think him as greg has some energy to it i also said will polter could maybe pull this off i don't know what you think about that will polter will polter would be a very good greg uh if he could like be uh you know like a little more like explosive with the comedy uh like he he's very good on the bear and is playing like

a character on the bear that's very different from the roles Will Poulter normally gravitates towards I just need to see him be like funnier in order to be to be Greg then my thoughts went because I guess I'm just thinking about Joel Klug for

whatever reason today like if you're gonna cast Eddie Mudd's and then I'm thinking about, uh, then I'm thinking like, go get Dacre Montgomery. Uh, like really like stranger things this up, uh,

with, with, well, I had, I had, uh, I mean, I also had Mason die from stranger things as a possibility for Greg.

Uh, and if you want to talk stranger things, uh, Millie Bobby Brown is in my cast list, uh, later on. Uh, and you're gonna laugh at that one i think uh so yeah i mean there there are definitely when you're talking about

like younger people how do you find younger people you're gonna go to the stranger things cast all the time uh because that's one of the few shows uh that have had real breakout people uh from a young age but they're getting old enough now that i feel like uh the kid who plays dustin could be a richard hatch contender pretty soon you know gaten yeah whatever you say my distant cousin yeah exactly yeah david harbour is richard hatch not the worst idea david harbour is richard hatches he's got richard hatch energy that's like dad bod you know he could do it he could do it yeah so that what about America's sweetheart though this is the impossible one for me

Colleen I knew I was still in boot order are we still in boot order because we're not at Colleen yet we're at Jenna right I'm trying to do this right Jenna Jervis Colleen that's where we're going next right my apologies I just triggered the ABCs and theyis Colleen that's where we're going next right my apologies I just triggered the ABCs

and they switched Colleen they skipped Colleen and then they had to go down from Greg to Jervis you were doing an alphabet strategy yeah that's what Sean does I'm Dr. Sean-ing it in more ways than one what a coward Jenna Lewis

this is where I brought Millie Bobby Brown into the mix jenna she was 22 years old when this was filmed i can't even believe that wow that's crazy give me millie bobby brown as jenny lewis forget it she can do it okay sure uh all right so 11 for jenna lewis she was uh she was the the she had 11 votes against her, Jenna Lewis, when she was voted out. Is that right? Is that true?

It's what it says on survivor.fandom.com. Alright, I'm going to take that as gospel. Okay, let's just not interfere with that at all. We're making a Stranger Things Survivor Borneo TV show here now, which I like. I'm not mad about that. Never Nervous Jervis.

This is a classic example of somebody I want to see work more. I loved the TV show Leverage back in the day. I'm a fan of the TV show Friday Night Lights. You may have seen him in other programming. Give me Aldous Hodge as Jervis. Oh, shit, he's Hawkman. Yeah, because he's hawkman and black adam i know that that's i know that that's tough for you to hear because it sounds like you really

respect this actor and i'm going oh hawkman from black adam but i actually thought hawkman and black adam was super rad uh and i would love to see him do more stuff aldous hodge is a great actor uh and a very talented actor. What's Leverage? Leverage was a, I think it was a TNT show, and it features the canceled Timothy Hutton, along with Aldous Hodge and a few other notable actors playing essentially like a crew of the best in their fields, criminals who have banded together to use their criminal skills to do good. And so it's sort of a story of the week. Who are they going to rip off this week? That's some

captain of industry type and give the money back to their Robin Hood kind of story to the people that they ripped off or whatever. There's like a high society con woman. There is a violence expert, essentially. There is like a logistics or tech expert. And then there's like the face or the brain is Timothy Hutton. Uh, and that's, they, they're just a crew. They get into, it was on for maybe five or six seasons. I think, I think they did a reboot of the show that they brought it back. Um, yeah, it's just basically like a oceans five, uh, and they do different things every week, uh,

as far as solving their, the things that they're going to help um yeah so there you go season one episode one of leverage here is the short log line after his insurance claim for his ill son is denied nate ford embarks on a robin hood like scheme to exact revenge by stealing from the rich and giving to the poor that's the pilot so in season two in episode two the crew try to help a soldier wounded by mercenaries in Iraq, but they can't be sure just how high up the cover up goes. Episode three, a stockbroker torches his stables, killing his underachieving racehorses and leaving their trainer heartbroken and bent on revenge.

That one's called the two horse job. So there's just some kind of crime that they find out about or some kind of criminal that they essentially, as a crew of elite criminals, find a way to stop, to combat, to take down, et cetera. It's a really well-made show more than anything. So Aldous Hodge, man, as Jervis, he's got the charisma. Everything that's in the Mark Burnett book about Jervis is like, this is the most charismatic guy in the cast. This is a guy who didn't was never an alliance, didn't have to do anything on the island, didn't work, didn't do any of this. And he didn't come for that. He just came to have the experience. How many people have smoked cigars on Survivor? Exactly right. Had a child announced that they were born and had cigars come out like some of that stuff is just so cool about Survivor Borneo. And it's easy to be sort of misty eyed about it because it is so different from what we experience now.

Can I can I ask, what do we think about like because like just to pivot to modern Survivor to new era Survivor again? And it's been something that they haven't really done since the very earliest days and even then very few and far between. Should there be more moments where they can connect with their lives back home and i'm not even talking about loved ones visits not even necessarily letters from home or phone calls but like should there be like like at a challenge sometime pros be like hey and daniel by the way your daughter graduated yesterday stuff like that like should we have more things where we're like being reminded of what they're what they're fighting for with their lives are like that goal i maybe yeah i

mean maybe like we're talking about if you're talking about my gripe which is that everything has been so heavily gamified as far as like the strategy of who's going home uh instead of like let's play a game for just a tarp or whatever, then the, yeah, it flows very naturally that you could compete for that kind of thing. And we should feature it more in the episodes. We should have more interactions with who these people are as people. Always, always, always. Rather than their archetypes,

or rather than what the edit wants us to think about who they were as people on the show, the more humanity we can bring to them, the better. In fairness to the current era of Survivor, one thing that I really do like that they're doing is kind of old school, which is like these cutaways to their lives off the island and like integrating that footage into the episodes.

I think that there are probably people who really actually don't like that, but I love it. I think it's cool. I think it's like when Carson's talking about all the puzzles that he does and there's all this footage of him doing the 3d puzzles at home with 3d printer and everything uh like i think it's cool to like go and check in and see that like i like those format breaks i think are good um now we're at america's sweetheart now we're at colleen how do you cast that haircut first of all like people

don't wear that haircut anymore well do we cheat and just say Colleen plays Colleen because she is an established Hollywood actress I think you have to give her right of first refusal right I think you get Colleen to how old is Colleen

now maybe Colleen could play Sonia I think she is probably in the early 40s 43, 44 I don't thinkeen could play Sonia I think she is probably in the early 40s 43 44 I don't think she could play Sonia yeah yeah maybe she's a little bit later 40s but she's still in her 40s for sure she couldn't play Sonia but maybe she could play Gretchen that could be

cool yeah yeah so maybe we can get Colleen on the show that would be fun but casting Colleen is tricky I knew I was podcasting with you so I just thought why don't we just put ella purnell in this uh oh that's a good that's a good dream casting like how can we cast somebody who has instant charm and appeal and a likability factor that's off the charts uh we got to go with ella purnell uh if you want to go stranger things on this maya hawke uh could be

there as colleen i think um and i think you could give her that haircut and ask her to be an actress and work her magic. And I trust that she could do it. Julia Garner could also do Colleen, I think, in a strange way, because Julia Garner can do just about anything as an actress. And she is small. I think she could pull off younger in this way. And when she played Anna Delvey, she just pretended to be someone else anyway. in this way. And when she played Anna Delvey, she just pretended to be someone else anyway. I like that. I think

I love the idea of Ella Purnell, even Maya Hawke, but both of them, for me, feel like really good Wigglesworth contenders. Feel like really good potential Kellys. I think I really like the idea of Julia Garner as Colleen. I think I think I really like the idea of Julia Garner

as Colleen. I think that that's fairly exquisite casting. The next person I was thinking of was like Margaret Qualley. And I think like they are of a similar quality. So I think like that kind of thing is definitely what you're aiming for with Colleen. But

she's a very hard person to cast. No doubt. No doubt about it. Yeah. All right. Well, then, who is next in our boot order, Josh? I know you're doing this from memory. Is it Dr. Sean? Dr. Sean. He of the Alphabet Voting Strategy. When I re-listened to

the Evolution of Strategy, you and Rob... Good. Always good. It's not the first time I've gone back to it. It won't be the last. The debate you and rob had very actively i might add throughout the course of the evolution of strategy especially this third chapter i think uh is it was dr sean an idiot or was there more to what he was doing was he was this strategy really like okay i i've noticed that the pagong names are at the beginning part of the alphabet and uh the Taki names are at the end of the alphabet.

So if I claim an alphabet strategy, I don't get blood on my hands. I'm just voting. It's not my fault if other people voted how I voted. It sends Jenna home. He's saying, Jenna, I don't think you're going to get more than one or two votes tonight. She gets his vote and then all the other ones from the alliance. He doesn't want to acknowledge the Alliance is there. The Burnett book paints him as a smart guy

who learned how to play the game as the game was like learning what it was. He was like learning with it. I think though that the ultimate story of Sean that's told on Borneo is one of cowardice and it's one of like not being willing to own your bullshit and don't act dumb. You're not

dumb. Stop being such a coward so I just kept thinking of David Schwimmer with regards to Dr. Sean because like who like with black hair that's a notable like coward other than David Schwimmer think of David Schwimmer and Band of Brothers David Schwimmer although Ross David

Schwimmer has the same energy Ross scans for Dr. Sean Kniff for sure I can imagine like Ross comes home David Schwimmer has the same energy. Ross scans for Dr. Sean Kniff for sure. I can imagine like Ross comes home and like, it almost even feels like there's the one with the nipple ring as an episode. Right. Like I feel like he did wear leather pants, right?

You know, he wore the leather pants. Like that's very Dr. Sean. I think David Schwimmer is Dr. Sean. I think you could send that straight to Samoa. All right. I'm loving this. You like some of my, my choices. I love it.immer is Dr. Sean. I think you could send that straight to Samoa. All right. I'm loving this. You like some of my, my choices. I love it. I feel good. You have any other thoughts on Dr. Sean? No, no, none. That's, that's perfect. Like I, I think I did before you said David Schwimmer, they're all gone now. Some of my alts, Zach Levi, I think was my number two choice for the same kind of reasons. Like he's handsome

he's you know uh put together guy but he can play sort of wormy or cowardly um and then matt i also thought of for dr sean that was more on look uh so yeah um all right who's next on vibes it's it's david schrimmer every day yes it's all vibes for me speaking of vibes and something that i think could be a lot of fun sue hawk this is sarah paulson so you got sarah paulson for sue hawk that's interesting okay all right all right uh i have kelly i have sarah paulson for kelly that's right and it's it's about the look more than anything and i know that sarah paulson can play this role uh but it's the age is not right so i have a younger person for kelly as well Sue Hawk, I had Kate McKinnon. I had Kate McKinnon for Sue Hawk because there's a comedy to Sue Hawk's character. And she is funny with

her speeches, with the way that she interacts with people. She's quick with a joke. If you watch her audition tape for Borneo, she's like got pigtail braids and she's singing a song. And it's like, ah, ha ha. You know, I'm very funny, but she's also a truck driver, right? And has that in her personality. These are all characters that Kate McKinnon has played with aplomb in movies and on TV. So that, I didn't really have another name.

I think she looks like a different actress, but the actress that she looks like is far too old for me to play the Zuhawk of Survivor Borneo. Can I toss one out at you? Go for it, yes. Maybe a bit left field. And like, I'm just going to have to,

like, you're just going to have to imagine it. Plucked from one of my favorite shows, one of Antonio's favorite shows, one of the most important podcast collaborations we've ever had. Give me Carrie Coon as Sue Hawk. Okay, you tell me. It it could happen it could happen like i could see that she was in fargo in your mind's eye turn it for a bit spin it around to fargo speaking of the colleen haircut that's nora durst to a t um yeah she was

in fargo so i know she can do that as an ohan, is she that different than a Wisconsin? I like to think so, as an Ohioan. Shout out to Wisconsin. I am looking down on you. Oh. Yeah, the Sioux Hawk. I mean, having Carrie Coon lean in on that accent would be very funny, and I love that. So I have no doubt Carrie Coon would be good.

Let's put Carrie Coon on the board. I'm in. We find ourselves at the iconic, late rudy bosch uh wait is that true yeah he's been i wasn't i was not aware he's been he's been dead for a number of years sorry to break the news to you on a podcast that's a shame i this whole time this last time we've been watching and i'm like i can't believe rudy's still alive that's crazy like i'm sorry sorry to tell you yeah turns out he wasn't it was schrodinger's rudy uh 2020 alive at the same time 2019 yes 2019 it says on the uh survivor fandom the late great rudy bosh 72 years old of course

when this is on retired navy seal so he's got a steelness about him and he's hilarious so do you have ideas for this because i have two names um i i mean like the people that i think of for rudy are probably no longer with us i have not looked up um is it r lee emery is like the guy who always plays the sergeant yeah i think he's gotta be gone but like i just like i just like i cannot separate them in my mind like those those two are like really really compatible with each other um not not gone but not getting anywhere near this project is tommy lee jones who i think could be an incredible rudy i think tommy would have like the sour the sour quality um I think that, I think,

I think again, probably I'm just like now scanning over to the Marvel cinematic universe for whatever reason, that's where my brain got pulled. I'm thinking Michael Douglas could be a pretty incredible Rudy at this point in time. Interesting. Michael Douglas. I hadn't thought about that one.

The, so you just mentioned Carrie Coon. I want to stay on the leftovers and tell you that i think scott glenn would be a fantastic rudy bosch uh and he's older scott glenn 85 years old currently i had to be 85 years young scott glenn no shit man speaking of bad monkey like he's looking great sounding great scott glenn could be rudy there's a 69 speaking of bad monkey i i'm now remembering the name vince vaughn was who i was thinking potentially for dr sean uh

i feel like there's a little bit in common there i think yeah i like that i like that uh the other name i had 69 years old uh often playing a military type role and i think very capable of playing the the bluntness of Rudy as JK Simmons. Oh, that'd be good. Yeah. Very, very, very. That was my first thought for Rudy. And I had that for Rudy for like the whole time. And then I was, as I was watching, I was like, Rudy's there's some Scott Glenn here in terms of like, you cannot rattle this guy.

Like you would not want to fight this guy, even at his age. He's wiry like Scott Glenn. So so like that you know there's there's elements of that there that i went with but yeah uh i think we i think we've got some good names on the board for rudy kelly's tricky because yeah 22 years old she's 22 years old when this is filmed so like if you want sarah paulson to play 22 year old kelly wigglesworth that ain't happening you know like most actors that you would pick for a role like this at 22, it's not happening. I did come up with Rachel Sinat, who you may know from, from stage and screen.

She is in the upcoming SNL film. I forget. She's playing one of the writers I let, I think, but you probably know her from the idol from bottoms. She was the co-star of bottoms with Iowa debris. And I think that they co-wrote it or they both worked on that project so rachel senate so not uh i think she kind of looks like kelly wigglesworth and i know she i know she can play a character like this because

i've seen her do it uh where she plays this sort of like edgier uh or more rebellious type um i think that that works sarah paulson is a great call for kelly as well but i just don't know about the h that that's a trick no it wouldn't work wouldn't work but i mean what this whole exercise is unstuck in time you have to really like bend your head all the way around in order to make a lot of this work so uh this is a a timeless project it's really more about the vibes these are the vibes that uh Survivor, Borneo, the TV show casting directors should be aiming for

Sarah Paulson is vibes for Kelly for sure and she could do it so that all works what about the vibes go ahead for Probst we've already cast Richard Hatch we also got to do Mark Burnett I think because I think you can't

tell the story of the making of this season of survivor without casting the villain of it uh so uh yeah sure sure sure you said you had a left field call on probes i want to hear it well well

i think that for for burnett like i do think like you need to have like uh like that big australian energy uh and so like for me i go russell crow for burnett yeah russell crowe was on the list until i looked at what mark burnett looked like and then i thought maybe it doesn't work as well and then i listened to him talk and i was like i was thinking andrew scott uh because i think you do need the villain energy and i think that

what's interesting about mark burnett, if you hear him talk, there's a little bit of like a softness or like that isn't there with Russell Crowe, quite frankly. Russell Crowe is who you cast if Mark Burnett is a bear. But I think Mark Burnett is like, I think Mark Burnett is more, I don't know. He's like more weaselly. Yeah, or wolf.

Andrew Scott. I also, for both, because of the Australian accent, I laugh because this is somebody I want to see for Probst and Mark Burnett is Chris D'Ametopoulos. His hilarious Australian accent in Mrs. Davis, notwithstanding, I think he has host energy as well. And I think he could play the Probst angle. So I'd like to see him for both Burnett and Probst.

I don't know if he makes it into the show. But yeah, I think we were right. We got to have villain vibes, kind of heavy vibes. If we do Australian vibes, uh, Anthony star, also an Australian villain.

Uh, that's currently in the zeitgeist. A very funny Mark Burnett put Homelander as Mark Burnett is a pretty wild ride. Yeah. Um, for probes, this was the one that like, sort of like Dirk Diggler style,

like got like neon lit up in my brain. Uh, when this was the one that like, sort of like Dirk Diggler style, like got like neon lit up in my brain. Uh, when I was thinking about who to, who to cast here and like, uh, as a lost person, people were probably expecting me to say Richard Alpert, Nestor Carbonell, who just won an Emmy award by the way. So congrats to him. Um, but no recognizable. Yes.

Basically. Yeah. For being like, wait, which, wait, which wait, that guy with the beard. So good. So good. You know, once upon a time, maybe. But like for me, Probst probably is the character that has to carry the show. Right. In many in many ways. So you need somebody who can be funny, serious. I think somebody who, much like Probst himself, was not at this time during the show, but would evolve into becoming showrunner of Survivor. So maybe you cast somebody who's also going to get involved behind the scenes. So I want to bring in, he is an incredibly well-known

actor, comedian, maybe lesser known director of TV specifically. He's somebody who knows how to negotiate complicated family dynamics. Jason Bateman as Jeff Probst. I love that. Yeah, I love that. Michael Bluth for Jeff Probst. He's got the right energy. He's got the right energy. He's got the right energy as far as like, you can tell, and the Burnett book writes about it. You can imagine him like sighing and sitting down on his little tribal

council's about all right guys like bateman it's bateman probst is not batman but he might be bateman i like that uh it's it's a fascinating thing to think about if you're telling the story of jeff probst and when survivor borneo kicks, you're telling the story of a guy who had been a successful entertainment reporter on Access Hollywood and who was looking for an opportunity to do more storytelling. side of the field, in addition to pursuing the on-air talent side of the field. And so I think initially he was probably drawn to Survivor not because it was a game show, quote unquote, but because of the adventure elements of it, the dramatic storytelling possibilities. It's clear that that's something that Jeff still really favors. And so if you're telling the story of where that guy started, it would be interesting

to see Jason Bateman playing that energy at this age, because the vibes are there. The Jason Bateman vibes that he's played in the past, I think you could play them. I didn't have great suggestions for this. I had Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Justin Theroux. Yeah, Theroux was on my mind as well. Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Justin Theroux for various, for different reasons, but I think Joseph Gordon-Levitt has the sort of more everyman quality that Jeff Probst has. And Justin Theroux has the more movie star quality that Jeff Probst has. And I think the dimples are really key in Joseph Gordon-Levitt, a noted dimple man.

So that was part of the equation for me there as well. But I like Bateman. I like Bateman. I like Bateman. And then it makes me think uh do you go Will Arnett for Burnett uh I think I think like uh you just like throw Will Arnett into like uh like his like heaviest mode uh the last time I saw him as a TV yeah the last time I saw him as a TV executive was on 30 Rock and I don't think we want that iteration for myriad reasons on uh on this show yeah um not the least of which is it's regressive and dated. But yeah, we don't want that.

But yeah, obviously we know that, we know Will Arnett can play like the villainous kind of executive type. So as Burnett would be a good character. It's fascinating to think about all this because like, you know, Mark Burnett is talking about how he had just made this insane show before Survivor. And it was like, it was the amazing race, but it was like difficult races. They were climbing mountains and they were sailing and they were doing eco

challenge. And I'm reading during, I'm reading the book during commercials of the NFL on Sunday and a commercial for a new show called the summit comes on. Yes. Of course promoting the exact same experience that brunette was like before and during the creation of survivor it's the exact thing 24 years later the exact kind of old is new again that's what i'm saying and uh apparently so that's quite good people like it there you go it's the word on the street here on rhap people love the summit so. So there you go. I loved this summit about Survivor. We typically talk about scripted TV here on the weekend program, Antonio. But I also like to think of the weekend program not just as an attic, but as a sanctuary where good things happen. And sometimes those good things are talking about Survivor with my good pal, Antonio Mazzaro.

So I would send this Survivor Borneo show idea to Samoa, as Rob and Steven would say. So confusing. I would love to see this get made. It would not be possible to make with the cast we sketched out for myriad reasons, but it's very fun to think about. And I think you can see a lot of these episodes come alive like the blair witch episode would be unbelievable uh there's just like a couple of moments from borneo that uh like what are some

of the moments from borneo that feel the most like tv viable uh to you some of the rewards uh like the the moment where sean meets his dad is very funny because you you hear about what happened behind the scenes to make that happen. When I watched it live, I was like, wait a minute. Like, do they have all the loved ones there? Like, why aren't people talking about the fact that they must have flown all their loved ones out? like through a radio or something that was there who won the challenge all the way over in Borneo so that one of them could get on a plane overnight and then be there like two days later to be the captain of the ship or whatever. So it was just like this constant scrambling that was going on.

And why that matters is like the weather and other related, we're making Survivor for the first time production problems meant that most challenges ended up getting delayed. Sometimes that would lead to challenges ended up getting delayed. Sometimes that would lead to the tribal council getting delayed and on and on and on. The day that they were doing that challenge, Mark Burnett was like whipping people into shape. Basically like, you cannot, this cannot go long. If this goes long,

we're not going to be able to fly anybody over here. So that was a big thing. The production stuff is really funny. There's the time when Kelly wins a trip after Sean has met his dad. She wins a trip to a local Malaysian bar. This is after Sean has met his dad. And so the castaways now are thinking, man, these rewards are going to be great from here on out.

Somebody's getting a car. We're going to get to do all sorts of crazy shit. And then meanwhile, production's like, oh, fuck. Like, we screwed this up. We set this expectation. Give her a beer and let her watch the show yeah they fake the whole bar everything was faked like they drove her around the island with a blindfold on making her think she was going to some magical place and she was in the other corner

of the production compound from when you know like where this all started and it was just all fake it was all it was all uh put. So those moments, I think the production moments, the scrambling that we're making a TV show about a TV show moments, I think would be really fun and funny. Nevermind like what the tribe gets up to and some of the conversations they have about sexuality and all those hot button issues that are played for a slice of life and humor on the show. but they apparently engaged in deep conversation. Richard Hatch's nudity, like who do we want to see naked, I guess is another question if you're casting Richard Hatch

because you're probably going to have him walking around naked a bunch. Paul Giamatti. That's part of it too. Paul Giamatti, who doesn't want to see that? Exactly. It's going to be great when Rudy on the show references, I don't even know what MTV means, and then all the kids watching the show will be like, us neither.

We're like that old guy. That's the person I most like. Boomers and Gen Z have everything in common. That's what everyone always talks about. I had a lot of fun doing this, Josh. This was a lot of fun, but we always have fun here on The Weekend Program. What kind of fun are we having next week? We have the best fun here on

the weekend program.com. Let's just reiterate that the weekend program.com. It's going to have all the information for how to subscribe to the weekend program, Antonio, to make the episode. Yes. You have a question for you about that. Does that also have a link where if people wanted to send in their cast ideas for survivor Borneo, the TV show, they can do that. Or where could people send those ideas if they were to have them? We could certainly tell you that it's weekendprogramrhap at gmail.com. That's weekendprogramrhap at gmail.com if you want to get feedback into us. But the weekendprogram.comcom subscribe to the podcast.

We have a lot of fun stuff coming up in the next few weeks. We will be next week, Antonio. It's long past time for what we are doing next week on the weekend program. It's time to kill some streaming services. Streaming service death match is what is coming next to the weekend program here as Apple and Max and Prime Video, P plus Antonio. All these all these all these folks have had a lot of time to work things out. And it just hasn't yet worked out. So the only way to make it work, fisticuffs and violence.

So it is a streaming service deathmatch next week in which Antonio and I shall decide via various measures which streaming services shall live and which shall die. So check in if you want. Really, more seriously, it's like,

okay, well, which ones are worth it to us? So we'll give you our evaluations of the streaming services and then we'll kill them off as we go, which is a nice prelude to the fact that October, just around the corner, this year speeding along, spooky season, Antonio. We are going to celebrate spooky season all month long on the weekend program starting in October.

We're going to be talking about childhood nightmares. We're going to be talking about all kinds of scary stories. We're going to be watching a TV show. We're going to be catching up on evil, which if you are a survivor fan, maybe you've seen the promos for evil on Paramount Plus or CBS we're going to be watching that at the end of October if that sounds interesting to you if you want to catch up on that show at the end of October we're going to be talking about

evil so lots of really fun things happening on the weekend program we encourage you to subscribe if you've enjoyed listening to Antonio and myself talk about TV once again theweekendprogram.com in order to do all of that. It would be a great time to subscribe here at the beginning of the new Survivor season. If you're just tuning into these podcasts in the Survivor feed, we won't be in this feed every time.

So if you don't want to miss out on the other things we might be discussing adjacent to TV, scripted TV, the universe that we live in that is so influenced by TV, subscribing to the podcast is free. It can be done on any podcast app that you like to use. And all you got to do to find links to do that is go to TheWeekendProgram.com. That's it. Antonio, anything else here? It was very fun doing a little bit of a survivor party. I think we should do this again next season. I'd be down. I'd'd be down there's going to be a new season of survivor there's going to be a survivor 48 that way you're telling me much like a broken block survivor strikes twice a year uh

yeah so you know uh so we are we will we will we will see we will see when we get back together for a new season of survivor but first we got to get through this new season of Survivor. I got to get myself out of the well. I'm so glad that I have crawled at least enough out of the well, Antonio, to watch Survivor 47 live with the people. It's been very, very fun so far. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season. I am looking forward to next weekend's weekend program

in which these streaming services shall battle to the death here. Begone the streaming wars have. Indeed they have, Master Yoda. So join us next time on the weekend program. We hope you all have a great week. And until then, we'll see you next weekend. Bye. Bye.