RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 49 Preseason Interview: Jason Treul

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Survivor 49 preseason interviews are back as Mike Bloom sits down with Jason Treul, a former Google software engineer turned law student. In this revealing conversation, Jason shares his unique journey to Survivor and his strategy for the game ahead.

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The Conjuring Last Rights. On September 5th. I come down here when you do you. Array! The Conjuring Last Rites, only on the theater September 5th. back to our Survivor 49 preseason interviews here on Rob has a podcast. My name is Mike Bloom, and we are in the end game of the pregame, I suppose, as we are getting to the third and final group of interviews.

We've talked about the Uli tribe. We've talked about the Kela tribe, and bringing up the rear or the Hine is the Hina tribe, our yellow tribe this season. Of course, if you missed it, not only have I released 12 interviews with the cast of Survivor of 49 so far, but Rob and I have also gotten together for two separate tribe previews

where we get Rob's thoughts on each of the contestants as well as how well they'll work together or against each other in this game. Feel free to check all of that stuff out in the archive. If you haven't yet, you can easily do so at we know survivor.com for our Survivor specific podcast feed or if you want the video versions

including some spiffy visualizations that Rob has rolled out just for this preseason go to watch rhap.com or search Rob has a podcast in YouTube. But let's get to our first member of the Heena tribe who you'll be hearing from today. Jason Truel.

A little bit to know about Jason before you hear my interview with him. Jason is, 32 years old, originally from Anaheim, California, moved to Santa Ana, California, where he currently lives, and his bio has him listed as a law clerk. But at the time I spoke with him, Jason was in the midst of a big transition in his life, or he had been previously working as a software engineer at Google and was on his way to finishing up law school and taking the bar after his time on Survivor 49.

And believe it or not, Jason has had a career change not only off the island, but on it as well as for the uninitiated, there was a rather unprecedented situation that happened in the pregame of Survivor 49. I actually have an interview with Jeff Probst up at Parade.com where he gets into some detail about it. I will not get into entire specifics of the exact situation, nor does he. But there was a rule violation during the preseason period that resulted in the removal of not one, but two contestants from the cast.

And so Jason was originally brought to Fiji as an alternate for those who do not know every season of Survivor, especially in the new era, they bring out 20 people to Fiji. 18 of them make the final cast, and there's also a male alternate and a female alternate who is on hand in case anything happens last minute that leads to somebody not being able to become a part of the final cast, as was the case here.

So 12 hours before the game started, Jason and the other alternate this season, MC, were informed that as much as they thought their time on the beach this season would be coming to a close, it was just getting started. So all that is to say, when I talk with Jason in this interview, he is under the mindset that he is an alternate and he is most likely not going to be a part of this season. So as much as we talk about these chats being time capsules, this is even more so, considering that, assumingly, Jason's entire mindset about the game and this experience is going to change in just a day or so from when we talk, considering that he is

going to discover in a short period of time that his experience as a survivor castaway has gone from a future endeavor to a present one. Had a really great time getting the chance to talk with Jason. Of course, tomorrow you'll hear from another member of the Hina tribe in Christina Mills. Looking forward to that chat as well. But for now, here's my preseason interview with Jason. I am Jason Trul. I'm from SoCal. I'm 32 years old and I am an ex-software turned lawyer. That is quite a pivot in a career. Was there something that prompted it? was lost something you were always looking to get into and then something happened. I think, well, I think that it's kind of like, it's kind of both.

It's kind of, I, part of me knew that I wanted to do it, but part of me was also it's like, I can, I can never do this, right? Like, I grew up, son of immigrants, right? So, like, my parents both migrated here from, like, the Vietnam War. And I think that so much of my early childhood was just trying to, like, make it through, get to a good school, kind of like be that first kid that goes to college, gets the job, like, figures it out for the family. You know what I mean?

And it's like the safest thing I felt was like, okay, well, I love science, I love math. Let's be an engineer because that stuff is really cool, right? I went to UCLA for physics and math, because I couldn't pick one. I love them both so much. And one is kind of nested within the other, you know? So it's like a square rectangle thing.

Like physics involves math, but not all math involves physics. This is, okay, this is like the stupidest joke that I tell everyone and no one laughs. But it's like I had a dual degree in applied math and physics. So I say I have a dual degree in applied mathematics and applied mathematics. There it goes. Just like with a different outfit. Exactly. So anyways, it's like that's my stuff and I, you know, I said that I was like a software engineer, right? And it's like, okay, I graduated with a physics degree. I need to figure out something to do with it. Now it's time to make money. So I had a couple of different odd jobs. I like poured acids and vats for like a chemical manufacturing. Oh my god. Can you show me all your fingers? Make sure that everything's intact. Yeah. It's it's so funny. Oh my gosh. It's like I I, and it was like, it was very much like a first job after college job. So it's like, I work night shifts with a bunch of old guys that are like, hey, you know, watch out for the hydrofluoric acid.

We had a, we had a bad spill a couple of years ago. This is the box, but you know, you'll be okay. But anyways, so it's like, I'm, and every step of the way, I'm like, okay, it's like, and I'll get to the law bit, I swear. But it, yeah, but it's like, every step of the way, it's like, I just need to climb that little rung to make sure that my family is, like, secure that I'm making a job, that I'm able to support myself. And then am I able to support them, right? And I think that after I had a couple of these odd jobs, I was talking to my mom. At the time, I was working kind of like half tech support,

half customer support at a loan origination company. Okay. Yeah. So I was doing that for a couple of years. And I told my mom like, hey, you know what? I'm going to sit you down. Like, I think that we're good. I think that we made it as a family.

I like am paying for some of your rent. I'm paying for my rent. This is awesome. Like, it's like I'm top of the world. know what I mean? It's like, I can actually, like, pay for all of, like, my family's expenses and stuff, which is, like, something that, like, it was so hard growing up to do, you know, it's like a whole village, like a village to raise a child, right? That was, like, our family. It's like, nobody could do it by themselves because nobody made enough to take

care of people by themselves. So I told my mom, like, hey, I think that we made it and I think that we should celebrate. My mom's like, hey, Jason, like, I'm, like, so happy for you. I'm, like, glad that you think this, but you know that you can do so much more than, than this, right? it's like you can do it like absolutely like be happy for yourself but like dream bigger you can I know you can and I think it was sort of like her that sort of shook me out and I'm like oh shit like now that I kind of have kind of done all my accounting I'm taking care of all the people that are around me it's like what can I do like what like what is that upper limit of like what Jason can accomplish yeah you graph that formula you know yeah and it's like and it's it's actually

such an exponential formula there we go yeah yeah for real it's logarithmic No, it's not an logarithmic. Logrithings, that one. Oh, that's true. I guess, yeah, you want to curve upwards. That's right. That's right. We'll cut that one out. Yeah. But it's like, so I'm like, okay, I had a, basically I had a buddy of mine that was also working at the same customer support job. And we're like, dude, let's fucking, let's just, everyone's getting into tech right now. Let's just do it. Let's just be tech guys.

So every lunch, we would go and we would study at the IKEA, like, you know, because they had like the cheapest lunch. Yeah. But like, he would go from his place, I would go from my place, and we would just meet up and we studied for probably like six months every day. Like, and we were able to both get jobs at Google as software engineers. Yeah, so not only am I a software guy. I'm like a Google guy. I'm like one of the fan companies, you know, based off of just meatball powered lunch lunches for like. Yeah, this is the best advertising for IKEA meatballs.

Like gives you so much brainpower. They are more expensive now, unfortunately. Yes, of course. So IKEA, if you knock them back down, I'm sure that you'll get more people. You'll get me back for sure. Yeah. But yeah. So anyways, it's like, and then it's like, okay, wow, we got it. Right. We got Google. Like my mom was like, yo, there you go. Now you can, now I can retire.

Like basically the day I got the offer, my mom was like, okay, you're paying for all my stuff for the rest of my life, right? And I'm like, oh yeah, absolutely. You know, it's like, this is like so much more than like I thought we ever could have had. So yeah, take it, dude. Take it whatever the hell you want. And I think I was doing that for like a little bit too. and it was a it was the day that Ruth Bader Ginsburg died right and I actually think that that's like probably like the turning point in like American modern American history interesting I think so it's like I've always grown up like being very like socially minded justice minded and I didn't really know what was up but I did know that I'm like okay well these people that's on this stupid court in D.C.

are like kind of controlling the world or whatever, right? And it's like the moment that she passed away, I was like, oh, fuck, right? This is like really, like, I don't know what's going to happen. And nobody knows what's going to happen. And when I don't know what's going to happen, I like get in the tank and I think. And I'm like, okay, well, what am I doing? Right. No, it's, I'm very much in the same way of like, I like to have actionable solutions.

Because when sometimes you mire and that stuff, you can't control, it's like, what can I directly control? Exactly. Yes, 100%. And I am like such, I don't want to say I'm like a control freak. But I think that when things are, when the sky is falling, I want to organize the raindrops. Oh, I love that analogy. Because it's helpful to like make sense of the world, right? And like the fucking sky was falling.

And I looked and I was like, holy shit, is this something where it's like I need to become activated? And I decided I'm like, yes, I can become activated. And I have like this like really sick Google job that, and I looked it up, like this. is like, okay, so here's the timeline. She dies. It's like night in the morning. I take my long walk, a couple hours. I come back, take a long shower, still thinking. And then at night, I'm like, does Google pay for law school? And I looked it up and I'm like, they do. Oh, not all of it. Right. They pay for a chunk of it. And that's enough of a carrot for me to be

all like, I am like exploiting my work and I get to do the thing that I want to do. So it's like, let's fucking go. You know what I mean? And like the next morning, I was all like, let's do it. I'm applying. I'm like, holy shit. I have to take the, I have to take the LSAT immediately because her death was inconvenient for the law school application. Yeah, I was going to say, didn't necessarily come at a nice application period. Yes, exactly. I hope that she lived to an infinite years old, but we are where we are. So I went over, I did it and I'm like, okay, cool. I can work full time as a Googler and I can work part time as like a night student. So I've been going to night school for four years, just quit Google this past year, and I'm going to be working in the, in the district

attorney's office. Wow. So I'm like, congratulations, man. Yeah, it's a big pivot. Hopefully we stick the landing. As we are recording right now, I still have not taken the bar, right? It's my last semester. I have all my papers prepped up.

My fiance has all the emails ready to send as I'm on the island. But hopefully by the time this show airs, I will have passed it. Well, actually, you don't know until November, but hopefully I will have taken it and really confident. Yeah, and then a month later, you'll collect your million dollar check. It'll be a perfect one-two punch. Exactly. Well, let's talk about, I mean, you are someone that seems like you are really acting upon dreams and whims that you have. And I imagine, Survivor is part and parcel with that. So talk to me a bit about your history with the show

and what made you decide to make this choice to come out here and love this dream. Yeah. So the first season of Survivor I ever watched was Survivor Gabon. Oh, what a one to start off on. Okay, and I feel like, okay, I might be the only person in, like, in casting history that has this entry point. But the reason I started with Gabon was because Kenny, yeah, Ken Huang. Ken Wong, do you remember his thing? Of course, he was a Smash Brothers champion. He was the king of Smash.

Yeah. He was my hero growing up. When I was in middle school, I was like, oh my God, Ken is hosting a tournament for melee and, like, Bullerton, which is like down the street, Mom, can you please, please, please drive me here? because Ken and PC Chris and Gympie Fish and all of the Spanish people are going to be here. They're my heroes. And I went over and I was like, oh my God. I like saw him.

I like, like he was like organizing the tournament. And like that was earlier in the year. But later that year, Survivor Gobonis, I'm like, holy shit, this guy is like on a TV. Yeah. And I had no idea really what Survivor was. I kind of knew because like, you know, oh, global phenomenon or whatever.

But Ken was really what drew me in. And when I saw it and I like kind of saw it through that smash lens, I'm like, how does a gamer play this game? And he got fucking far. He got really far. He made the finale. He made the finale. Yeah.

Well, I want to take a brief break for this because let's talk about your own smash history. Because I did my research. You know, I'm aware of Project M as well. You did your research? Of course I did. Did you say the words Project M? Oh my God. Yeah.

So talk to me about what that was like, is that just like, I mean, I guess now from your perspective with Ken, we know that you are an avid smash fan. So how did that end up developing though? Because, I mean, listen, Survivor is all about building a community. you ended up kind of doing that through Project M. That's right. Oh my God, you did do your research. That's so insane.

Thank you for looking for that. Of course, no problem, man. It's an awesome thing. It sounded like a hell of a thing to put together, but so fulfilling. It is. It was. And it's like, this is sort of how I got my fulfillment during those years of pouring acid and vats.

I didn't really love doing that. I put most of my effort into cultivating a community for Smash Bros. So I think I am like, in like the project M, like micro, microcosm. I'm like a top player. Me and my fiance organized the largest project in tournament of all time together. Wow. Yeah. So we met through Smash, which is really fun. Amazing. And then I also, I'm like just generally

like a big community ideas guy. I love like pulling people on together. And it's, smash is such, oh my God, I'm gushing about it so much. But it's like, it's such a beautiful trick. And I think that Survivor is a trick too. Oh, that's such an interesting way to put it, yeah. So what you have here is like the people, 20 people today, right? Yeah. Everybody here is here because they love Survivor. They love it so much.

It's like singing in their soul they have to apply. That's why I'm here too, right? And when you play Smash Bros, you get a bunch of unsocialized, like, people that just live in their basements, but they love Smash. They love it so fucking much that they are willing to leave their mom's basement for 30 minutes to go and play against somebody who's really good. That's what got me to go to fucking Ken's tournament, you know? And it's like, it's this trick that it's like, oh, this thing that you love, when you unite with other people that also love it, you build like a beautiful community of, and you didn't even know that that's what you wanted.

But once you have it, you're like, holy shit, this is like so amazing. Yeah. You know? So then let's talk about building this on island community. So you watched Ken. I'm assuming you had been watching, you know, religiously since. So was this your first time applying? You know, what made you decide this was the opportunity to,

try your own hand at it, to take the controller, if you will. Yeah. By the way, Mike Bloom, I love, you are a masterclass in little transitions and segways. Oh my God. Stop it. No, I love it. I love you so much. Oh, my God. Well, it's mutual, man. I'm glad we got the chance to meet that I got to meet.

I was like, I was thinking, I was like, oh, what are going to be my Mike Bloom segways? What weird ass thing is he going to say? Well, hopefully it's been worth the prize of admission. Yeah. So talk to me about your application process. What made you decide to become a part of the show? Yeah. So actually, like, I watched Survivor for a little bit. I didn't watch religiously after that, right? It's like I had to go to college, right? And after that, like, me and my family used to watch, we watched Gabon and Tokon Sheans and Samoa and Heroes versus Villains was the next one. But once, I think Guatemala, was that 21? 21 was New Orleans. That was when I went to college. And I couldn't watch on my family anymore. And I had to, like, sort of become a person. So, like, I just kind of put it on ice. And then at Google, during the press tool,

of Winners at War, Jeff Probst spoke at my office for the Survivor 40 promo. Was that the one he did with Dean Kualski? He did it with Dean Kualski. I'm like, who the fuck is this? And I'm like, I called my dad. I'm like, dad, Jeff Probs is going to be at Google. Should you want to come, man? And he was all like, yeah, let's do it. But he got sick, so I took my fiance at the time girlfriend with me. And she got so hooked. She was like, this is crazy. And I'm like, yeah.

and like she actually was like the super fan that got us to watch since then oh no and she actually oh god she's gonna hit me for saying this she's the one that's been applying uh but she's been applying for a couple of years she hasn't gotten anything back yet and she was gone for one weekend and i was like oh she felt kind of blue this cycle and didn't want to apply i'm like okay i guess i'll throw my hat in the ring then right so i applied and it's literally my first time ever applying and i i'm like oh my god she's so pissed at me but i did and it's so amazing So looking back upon the history of Survivor, give me one winner and one non-winner who you identify with the most. I mean, did we mention that non-winner?

Is it Kenny or is it somebody else? I love Kenny to bits. And I like, there's so much, oh, like, I loved him as a smash player. We have the same birthday. Oh, wow. October 10. It's Kismet. Yeah.

So it's like, I have to say 10. And it's like, he played so well. And I think that he played such a strategic game. And I really love that. Was Gabon the most strategic season? No. You know? He would have done better another season.

Or maybe you would have done the worst. I don't know. But definitely can. What about a winner? A winner. I think that I was thinking about this because I like feel like there aren't many winners that have really played the way that I did until Rachel. I know she's so recent, but it's like I love everything about Rachel.

Like I think that the way that she played her shot in the dark as sort of a litmus. test. Yeah. So brilliant. The way that she was like so like, like, oh, I'm going to like make sure and like check my bases before I like cut the idol out of like the canopy, right? Yeah. I think that there is like such a beautiful subtlety to the way that she played the game. And that's only the first half, right? Like I love that she was on the bottom for so long. Took a little bit of like like it's a mixture. Surrey was always a mixture of like luck and and skill. Right. She had the social capital for Saul to give her like the, the, the advantage to get her the fuck out of there.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's all like, yes, she was able to like scrounge her way from the bottom to like make a lot out of very little. And once like once she was like emerged as a threat, it's like I call it, I call it like Fast and Furious Survivor where it's like you have one chance to hit the NOS. Yeah. And she fucking hit it and like boom.

The moment that everyone's, she was on everyone's radar immunity, immunity, immunity. And it's like, dude, yes, please. And the new era is sort of like living life one quarter mile at a time, right? It's just like you want to make those long term plans. But a lot of it is like, you don't know what's coming tomorrow. So like you got to focus on what's going on in the immediate first. Yes. And Rachel was so good at long term short term.

Yeah. Right. And she got had so much like social capital. People loved her too. Like, oh my God, if I could play like her, that would be amazing. And she was an alternate too, right? So it's like I think that, you know, there's like a deep dark secret that I have. But I like, oh, she is so aspirational.

What would you say is your biggest superpower and your biggest piece of kryptonite that you are bringing into a game like Survivor? Oh, I think, I think that for, I don't know if it's a kryptonite or a superpower, but I, I love leading with vulnerability. Interesting. Tell me more about that. So it's like, I think that it's like, I, okay, you're going to see some people today. There's like a dude who took a wrong turn and ended up on 49. instead of 48. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So there are some people that are, they're fearless, they are confident. They are like so ready. But I feel like I'm like so not that person. I'm like the scrawniest little dude. And I think that I have to really lean into it. And that's how I choose to do it. I think that there's something about sort of showing your like kind of like soft underbelly that like lets people say like, oh, you know, it's like this guy just fucking tripped and

fell on his face. Like, but he's doing all right. You know, like I'm rooting for him. Yeah, I think there's this ability of empathy, right? Of like, I've been, I've been in that spot where I've tripped and fallen on my face. You're not this untouchable God of a person. You're a mortal amongst us. I am, and I am the most mortal.

I am the most mortal human that has ever walked to this earth. I, like, live in fear. And I think about it like this. It's like, I'm scared. And, like, Jeff is like, don't play scared survivor. I can't control how I feel. Yeah. But even though I'm scared, I'm going to play brave survivor.

Right? Because I think that fear is something you can't control, but bravery is something that you can. So it's like, even though I'm, like, scared out of my mind out here, I know that I'm going to be, it's going to be, it's like, today's beautiful, but it's been kind of raining, it's probably going to rain. And I know that it's like, I'm going to feel like shit. I'm going to be so terrified of what's going to happen.

But I'm like, like, everything else I've done before, it's like, I'm going to be brave and I'm going to push through it. Yeah. And I think that that is like both like a kryptonite and a superpower because it's like, I need that weakness to make me strong. Yeah, I love, I love that concept. So let's talk about, you know, you would mention your physicality, perhaps compared to some of your competitors. How do you think you would be perceived in the game? You know, are people looking you in being like,

this guy's on the puzzle no matter what? I think I am on the puzzle no matter what. I've like been, I've been playing with my Game Boy. So I brought my Game Boy. And it's like, I kind of like to, I wanted to do like a little something to see. So I, not only have I been like playing game. Oh, you're doing your own Rachel S. Litmus Test. Sort of. Yeah. It's like I've been, I've been taking notes inside my game of Pokemon. so oh tell like are you naming the Pokemon like yes I've been so so one we're on we're like on the air we're like on the airplane or whatever like you can kind of tell you can like look at clipboard you can see people's tagged or it's like oh this person who's who's across from me it's like I'm going to give them a nickname as a placeholder and then give them their initials later right and I have

like Pokemon can be stored in like little boxes so I'm like ally vote them off unknown need more information oh quite literally there's a Pokemon unknown too so oh yeah exactly I need to catch that one I'm doing crystal version, so that does have unknown in it. But, so anyways, I think that, like, I've been trying to, like, size up and, like, kind of present as, like, hey, I'm, like, just some little kid playing as Game Boy. I, like, I, like, made sure that the clothes that I was bringing had, like, large horizontal prints because horizontal is, like, oh, what a little kid. I've been, like, kicking my feet up on. I've been having, like, socks pulled really big. I want them to think I'm, like, a huge point Dexter.

Yeah. Because they are not going to think of anything except that. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, let's dip into the Pokemon boxes a little bit because this is perhaps the most organized answer. I'll probably get to the question that I usually ask, which is, you know, when you're looking at this competition, I mean, let's start with the ally box. So give me some names or some descriptions of people that if you hit the beach with them on day one, they're part of your party. Oh my God.

Okay. Top of the list, K.M. She is, she has like these beautiful braid. She's like a black woman with glasses, a little shorter. and she just radiates kindness and positivity. Like every single time we're inside of the lines to like get food, always thank you for the wait staff. Like I think that she's always smiling.

She's like, you know, I think that she's not, there are people that are definitely smiling in the sense that they're like, oh, I need allies, right? Like, oh, you got me, right? I think that she's just kind of doing it on her own because she's just enjoying the moment out here. And it's like, it's like been really awesome seeing her. also I like

SF she's kind of like she's like a white woman with like kind of curly wavy hair I don't know how else to describe her but like she has been really spunky

like I feel like I don't know I know very little about her right but like again this is the wrong takes only podcast so it's like yeah she has this is leading with vulnerability this is like I'm willing to be wrong about this stuff oh and I am gonna be so wrong

but so it's like We're on the airplane, right? And she's sitting, like, pretty, like, kind of farther away from me. But when the plane lands, it's, like, raining cats and dogs in Fiji. And I'm, like, looking at, I give, I, like, look to her because she's the one of my view. And I, like, kind of give her one of my, like, scared grimaces that I like to give a lot. Kind of like, and she looks at me and she's all like, we got this. And I was all like, oh, dude, hell yeah.

It's like, she's making me believe of myself. I love that. Well, then, let's go to the opposite. box here. Let's talk about some of the people you're hoping to knock out in this game. Who are some people that, uh, I mean, either they're not vibing with or like you're already pegging his big threats. Yeah, I would, I like, so I think that bad vibes is like not the appropriate where it's sort of like need to play around them. Interesting. Right. Because it's like, of course everyone can be an ally, but if you have an ally that is very like single minded, you need to play around

them in a certain way. Right. I think that J.L., the really big guy is one of those people. He is center of attention he is like very much i feel like if you're on a tribe with him it's either you're with him or you're against him not because of anything that that he's doing but his presence is so big and i don't know if he can play a small game i'm such a small game person that like if i was on his tribe i need to adapt to that yeah another person i think it's really funny r v he's like um he's kind of like he's like he's like a white guy with like straighter straighter hair okay right um i think he's tall but i don't know if you can see you on the camera yeah But, oh, we had this moment where it was like, he's, like, reading this book, right?

And everyone's reading books. And, like, I think the book is supposed to show your personality. That's why I bring the Game Boy, right? It's just there to signal to people who you are. This guy is bringing fucking tactics books. He has one that's like, how champions communicate or something like that. Where I'm like, dude, this is so corny. Read that before you get on.

Yeah. So I'm looking at him. And I see that he has, he's not reading the book right now. It's landing, is on his table. I look at it. I look at it. And I look at him. And he goes over.

And like, I look back, I'm like, interesting. Clatter, clatter, clatter. I hear this big noise. I look back, the spine has turned. And I'm like, oh, my God, dude. You didn't think that people were looking at your stupid book. Why'd you bring it? And it's so messy that it's like, oh, it's so obvious.

So I don't know. For him, it's like, okay, if I'm on a try with him, he's going to be sloppy, but he's going to be a little, like, he's here to play hard. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that because you talk about playing small, but you talk about also playing brave. And so when you talk about idols' journeys, advantages, how much. much do you want to incorporate that into your game? I mean, speaking of Rachel, sometimes

you can't help the way you have to do it, but what's your initial approach to it? I think that the farther into the game you go, the less of a risk the journeys are. Because I think that the journey is dangerous, not because you might lose your vote, you might get an advantage, is dangerous because you are missing out on time. And I think that Rachel says something very insightful on the On Fire podcast. If you win that first immunity challenge, you don't have to like send anyone on a journey. All six people get to play the game. Right. But like if you look at 46, it's like Asia and TK, I think we're the two that guys, they're both gone, right? Immediately. And I think on 48, it was, um, Kyle and Kevin. Kyle and Kevin, Kevin's gone. And Kyle is only lucky that he didn't

go to tribal. You know what I mean? I know that they're, they were painting like the C-Vore thing. Maybe he would have stayed. But I think that you're really like taking yourself down a peg needlessly if you go on that first journey because that first bit of survivor is so social. Yeah. And they weren't even fighting for advantages. They were just fighting to get their pot back. I'm not going to do that. And if they send me, they're stupid because I'm so small. Why would I even be able to get that for them?

But as the game goes on, I think that advantages are the way to get yourself out of a pickle. Right? Like, that's like what they're there for. They're there to mix up the game. So it's kind of like when you're playing, like, if you ever like play, I play a lot of magic the gathering. Okay. So it's like you have to play to your outs. And even if something is very risky, you have to do it because to not take that risk is to die immediately, to die from inaction.

So I think that like when you sense that you are forced into those spots, you have to take it. Because to do otherwise, like, doing nothing is not always a safe play. Doing nothing might be the dangerous guaranteed death play. And you need to like have advantages to like get yourself out of that because I'm not going to be the kind of guy that's on the top dominating all the time. I need to weasel my way like Rachel did out the bottom because like there's no like, I don't know. I am preparing, and every survivor, unless your name is Devayadaris exactly, plays from the bottom at some point. We need to figure a way to wiggle. Yeah, absolutely.

You said this was the wrong takes podcast, so let's feed the fire, shall we? Give me your hottest survivor take. Oh, my God. Okay. This is actually, this right here is the right takes podcast for this section. Okay. Yeah, we're taking a brief break from wrong takes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And this is intelligent, hyper, hyperintelligent case. Okay, there we go. My hot take is that advantages, that includes block of a vote, steal a vote, extra vote, are stronger than idols. Ooh, interesting. I think that the idol is so, I think that there is something, there's just an aura of threat around the idol. So that unless you have like this perfect, and I will argue that like the perfectly hidden nobody knows about idol is still quite strong. I think that steal a vote is still stronger than that. But I think that if somebody knows, if anybody knows you have an idol, even your ally,

it's like you have the stink of the idol on you. Everybody and Survivor, oh, Survivor is all about idols. And advantages in parentheses. Everyone plays around the idol. Everyone knows how to split a vote. Everyone knows how to throw someone sent off to misplay an idol. Yep. Who is really putting all that thought and effort into steal a vote, which I think is the

strongest thing in the game. Because I think it's this idea of like defenses versus offensive, right? And again, I think to your point, idols and this day and age have become more defensive of like, they're coming for me, I got to play it. Offensive is, hey, we're trying to mount this thing or someone's trying to come after me. I can steal their vote.

I can block their vote to make sure that's not going to happen. Beyond that, too, we're in this era of small tribes. Yeah. Right? The amount of tribals that are over like 10 or 11 people is like maybe two, right? Because we have the, we've had the split tribal. We'll probably have it again. In situations where you have six or less people,

you know how strong a fucking two votes. It's insane. Yeah. The beautiful, beautiful idol play, that Kyle and Camilla play, it doesn't even matter if you have a steal of vote, right? It doesn't even matter. It's like so no nonsense and it's like so powerful. But no one's going to play around a steal of vote because I think that when you're

sleep deprived, you don't really think about numbers all too good. You just think about, oh, they block all the votes. That's scary. Yeah. So if you were on the jury at this moment, what do you think would be your number one piece of criteria for voting for a winner? Because it can be, you know, we've seen people over the years vote for likeability, relationships resume challenge wins etc do you have something that would stick out in your mind

is like i'm voting based on blank here's a second hot take while we're doing this yes and this one might be hotter actually is that i think that the age of the survivor resume is over and should be buried deep into the ground because survivor is not like think about like think about the application process for survivor right and i think that sort like winning survivor is like a an extension of like what gets you on the show in the first place is that we are not looking for people with the best stats the people who like went to like the Ivy League schools and like did all the extracurriculars it's like what is your story like what did it mean for you to be out here like yes like you can pull off like amazing blind sides but it's like how i think that my criteria

is like how much control and how much awareness do you have over your own story what brought you here right yeah season 43 i think that a lot of people like oh cassidy should have won she had no idea what her own story was, right? I think that Gabler did. And I think that that's why he was able to, like, convince the jurors. He played his game. Yeah. And even if that game isn't, like, a good resume, it's like, you just have to own

the game that you played. And to, in order to, if you want to, like, be a little less, like, I guess, forthcoming at the, at the price of, like, oh, well, I owned that move. I owned that move. To boost your resume, that's like a losing fight. That's not going to get me, you're not going to get my vote if you do that. Hmm. Last thing, you know, what I usually ask to end these things, if you could bring a celebrity or a fictional character out as a loved one, who's your main, who is going to be joining you out there it is. Okay, two, okay. One is the silly one and one is the heart. Okay, let's do it. So the silly one is the Pikachu. shoot. There we go. Is he your main? No. Okay. No, no, no. Yeah, I mean zero suit Samus. I would not

bring her. But he could also be in the, I mean, she'd be great out here as opposed to like Samus in her suit, considering the sun and elements on the day. No, that would be so torturous. Hopefully there's AC in there. But like, I think that, okay, I'm putting you in the mindset. Please. When you, when do people get their loved ones visits? Final six, final seven. Yeah. You're so weathered. You already kind of, there's so much extra context going on. The people are like, I want to bring Boston Rob. I want to, no. No one is going to give you any strategy.

No one is going to help you in the game that you, a person who has survived until the final seven, can't already do yourself. Right. You need somebody to pump you up. Yeah. And given the choice between a celebrity and a fictional character, anybody who doesn't pick a fictional character is insane. I want my delirious Fijian brain to see, like, is that fucking Pikachu?

Yeah. What is he doing? And he's just like screaming at me, pika, pika, pika. And I'm all like, you know what, you're right. Yeah. Like, we can do this together. He's, like, so motivational and he doesn't need any words. And if someone wins the challenge, they can literally say, I choose you.

Come with me to the sanctuary. That, yes, exactly. Okay, and here's the hard-foot one. Yes. I've been thinking about this a lot. Yeah. You. I'm serious.

Stop it. Mike, you have such, like, you have such an inside scoop to everybody right now. Like, they can choose to be vulnerable. They can choose to be, like, very, like, outlandish. Yeah. But you know us in the moments before we start the game. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And it's like to see that journey, the only person who could really know what we're going through is you. And I think that like if I saw you and it's like final seven, it's like, holy shit, man. Like this person that I used to be, you're the only person who knows the person I used to be. And now look how far I've come. You know what I mean? It's like. Fuck, I did not expect to get proclaimed to my first interview. But like that, God, that means the world.

so many ways. No. What you do is so special. What you do is so special. I mean, your logic makes a lot of sense as well of like, you know, I'm so privileged to get the opportunity to talk with you all in these moments where you have no one else to talk to. Yeah. Yeah. And so to be able to check in, I mean, much like a loved one's visit, right? It's all about like getting that that bit of like this person who knows me from outside of the game and seeing you're the only person who does. Thank you.