RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Cast Reactions w/ Drop Your Buffs

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Rob Cesternino welcomes Drop Your Buffs podcast hosts Evan Ross Katz and Sean Ross to discuss Survivor 50 and dive into their dream picks for future returnee seasons. The trio explores the missed opportunities in Survivor 50's casting and examines the balance between old school and new era representation.

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Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisterdino back here and I'm very excited for a fun podcast that we are going to do today. We had such a fun crossover a couple of weeks ago when I appeared on the Drop Your Buffs podcast and now here with me to talk a little bit about some of their dream picks from Survivor 50. I'm sure much more. Let me welcome in first, Sean Ross. Sean, how are you?

I'm so good. And I can't believe that I'm on R-Hap. I never thought I'd see the day. Almost I thought we were, I thought we were a BlackBald. I thought we were the Neonca mix in of R-Hap. I know you just had a great interview with Neayanca, which I am looking forward to. I haven't listened to yet. I listened to your interview with Sophie last week,

which I thought was great. And of course, also with us, the other co-host of Drop Your Buffs, Evan Ross Katz. Evan, how are you? I'm doing great, Rob. I'm walking on air to quote Katy Perry because this is, as Sean said, we are enormously

grateful to, you know, close the loop on the crossover because, you know, you came to us and now here we are in your home. Yes. Well, that is like what a, you know, polite podcast etiquette dictates of that. I went on your podcast. Here you are to talk about so much survivoror stuff going on in the world where the Survivor 50 cast has just come to light in the last few days. And we'll talk about that. But you two are, you know, such avid fans and really advocates for the old school era of Survivor, one that was maybe underrepresented in the Survivor 50 cast, so we can talk about that, I'm sure, but also are such knowledgeable people,

not just about Survivor, but the entire Survivor fandom. So I'm excited to have you back for whatever we talk about. Excited to be here. Yeah. I wouldn't say the entire Survivor fandom, because I've got to tell you, with this Survivor 50 pre-season, it only recently came to my attention that Survivor Sucks is still in operation. I thought they shut that down.

I think it's like something on, like it's called like Tap Talk or something like that. But yeah, they're still out there. I used to frequent Survivor Sucks when Survivor was airing, like in the old school days. And always a lurker, never a poster. But then we did our season 50 rumor mill episode where we went through the last rumored cast, not the one that mirrored the exact cast that just was announced, but you know, when, when it was good, like when Elizabeth Hasselbeck was on it.

Yeah. Elizabeth Hasselbeck said, no doing that. I love that. I was with you guys that I was sad that she wasn't on it. Yeah. But we we threw a lot of stuff out there. And we don't know anything. Like we don't know anything. We had some pretty good ideas of you know, a few people, but we didn't we don't really know anything. And then suddenly somebody sends me this link

to Survivor Sucks and it's like, reliable source, drop your buffs, confirms Christian Hubecky not on Survivor 50. I was like, we just kind of skipped over him because we were running out of time, that's all. Yeah. Anyways, it's still in operation. So I don't know, I'm still learning about the fandom

a little bit, but yeah. Okay, all right. Well, luckily we don't know, I'm still learning about the fandom a little bit, but yeah. Okay, all right. Well, luckily we don't have to worry about any like casting rumors for any of these survivor seasons for quite some time because they're all out in Fiji. Evan, how are you doing? I'm doing well. I've been really a mesh in the reactive ecosystem

to Survivor 50. I was certainly anticipating a strong response from the fandom. But sometimes I don't know if it's my algorithm or what, and I think it often is, but I have been... The tenor of the fandom has been quite interesting to me. Rob, I listened to your pod with Mike Bloom, which was outstanding entertainment this morning for me at the gym. And I gotta be honest with you, I listened to your pod with Mike Bloom, which was outstanding entertainment this morning for me at the gym.

And I gotta be honest with you, I was surprised I found you to be a little less rose colored than usual. Yeah, well, those are my honest views on what they did. Because I really felt like that the Survivor 50 discourse and it changed, I think that like when it first was announced, I felt like that the Survivor 50 discourse, and it changed, I think that when it first was announced, I felt like that we thought, okay, well, it's gonna be mostly new era, and a couple people from the late 30s maybe,

where Jeff said, hey, it's not just gonna be the new era. But then as the worm turned, we started to hear more of, hey, maybe CBS is pushing more of all of Survivor. We need to bring back a lot of the, hey, maybe CBS is pushing more of all of Survivor. We need to bring back a lot of the big names, the heavy hitters, that's what the network wants. And Jeff talked about how that it was going to be all the eras, a celebration of 25 years of the show.

And we started to hear rumors at one point, hey, like they just cut Jesse and Carolyn There's only gonna be like three people from the new era on the cast and everyone's like well We're sad for Jesse and Carolyn like they should probably if you're only gonna have three Maybe those should be in the three, but okay if it ends up being Mostly old era and then maybe you do a new era all stars in a year or two, okay, I think everybody was on board for that. But it seems like at some point between then and now, where we ended up with maybe an over representation that it's only it's only nine of the seasons

of the show, but it's 50% of the cast. Also two of whom we have not even met yet. Yeah, I think it's, there are certainly many a surprising pick. I do think that like, it's we, not Sean and I, but the fandom, we are partially to blame in the sense that I think we inflated our idea of what this season was going to be. I know like on Drop Your Buffs,

we've been speaking about this season for years at this point. We deemed it the legend season. And so I think there was a thought pattern that was created by a lot of us in sort of willing it into being, in thinking that this was going to be this landmark celebration of all there was. But I think you said it on the pod that I listened to, which was that that was never stated by the show. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Maybe they never explicitly came out and said, but I felt like that they were sort of they were leading us

into that direction. And I think that there were various names that we heard through the process. I just also, the other thing that really boggles my mind about it is, and this is maybe my biggest gripe is That for the long times like we didn't have any winners come back And so that that was like okay that was how they were going to draft this cast no winners And then to come in and here's D and Kyle which you know great winners in the new era

but not necessarily players that I've heard a ton of clamoring of I need to see, I need to know what else Kyle can do. Like I feel like I got a pretty good picture of like what Kyle is capable of as a player. You know, and similar with D, I feel like I've kind of gotten it. Maybe, maybe there's a new gear and one of them wins and they become like, OK, they're on the Mount Rushmore of Survivor. But I just felt like that you didn't bring back any of the winners that would have been interesting to maybe see again.

But you brought back these two for why? Yeah. And I feel like with the Kyle coming back of it all, it's like if we are going to be bringing winners back, why bring somebody back who, as you said, I think in the podcast, won last week. He won last week. Yeah. And now he's flying off to Fiji to play again.

I mean, any winner is going to have a target on them, especially with Jenna Lewis there. And so I feel like this is the biggest target you could have because not only is he a winner, but everybody there just saw him win. Surely everybody was watching survivor 48 who's going to play survivor 50. And so I feel like if you were going to dip into the winners, why not go to those people that didn't make winners at war?

Like a Todd Herzog, like an Earl Cole, like a Vasepia. I think that that's where we should have gone. Even a Tina Wesson, this could have been the last time we see Tina Wesson play, right? And so that would have been so exciting and a headline banner making name to get. Yeah, and just as far as you brought up the last time that we're gonna see some of these people,

it just felt like that this was a missed opportunity where that there are a lot of people in our survivor world where that I can't imagine the next time they're going to do a big thing like this. It could have been a real celebration. And when the challenge had sees for I'm not a challenge person, but they brought back what 10 people from every era of the challenge as a celebration of What that meant and this was just like such a celebration of the very recent History of the show and now we probably may never get another chance to see Jonathan Penner play survivor again

Tina who knows if ever Amanda Kimmel ends up coming back for another season. I do feel like that we got that with some of the people and I've tried to highlight that of, you know, Stephanie, Coach, Ozzy, Saree. I feel like we got that in a few of these people, but I think there's just so many that we probably will never see play against Survivor again that I think would have done it. And I think to add to all of that, it's not just the possibility of seeing them play again. It's what the platform means now as opposed to what it meant then, which is to say a lot of these particularly particularly the really old school players, there was no social media.

There was no the fandom was not as vocal and connected as it is today. So if, even if you look at like what happened with Suri and Parvati over the last few years as a result of traitors and getting them back into the zeitgeist in such a way, there are opportunities for people like Jerry Manthee to kind of be able to be re-examined

with a specifically 2025 lens that they won't be afforded. So it's not just the like, yeah, I'd like to see some of these people play the game again. I'd also like to see some of them get their due. Yeah, and Jerry has been taking this especially hard. My heart goes out to Jerry. We love Jerry. That nine minute video she posted on Instagram. Don't know if you watched it.

Oh, I can't say I watched it. I can't say I watched all of it. You need to watch all of it. I watched all of it twice. Wow. Very Sean. It's good. It's good. Can I ask you a question, Rob? Because it's our understanding from hearing from some of these, how shall we say, disgruntled former players, something of a nine month casting process. Can you elucidate for us what happens over the course of those nine months?

I understand that there would be a call that goes out, perhaps nine months ago, saying, are you available? Are you interested? Would you be around on these dates? But outside of that, people seem to be talking about the process as though it was this grueling endeavor that they found themselves on. And I just want to understand better what that entails. So, yeah, I can illuminate at least my perspective on what I had experienced where there was an outreach in August of last year. And there was, you know, I felt like that not a ton of contact, you know, so I did not find the ordeal

to be grueling in any way if anything I felt like it was I thought it would be more intensive to be like I thought that there would be a lot of like regular conversation about it and It was the thing that just went on for a very long period of time now Perhaps there were some other folks that were in more regular conversation that might have been in more consideration for one of the spots on the show, but I did not find that there was a ton of, it was not a big undertaking

that I had gone through over months and months. It was long, but I wouldn't say it was intense. And was that a cold call you received one day or was that an email that came in? And how seriously did you think that you were being considered or in your mind at the very beginning was it okay, all 700 plus people are receiving the same phone call or email. I'm one of them. Or in your mind was this potentially the golden ticket. So I had gotten the call and I really I didn't know necessarily like I assume like if they're calling me they must be calling everybody. They must. They said they must be calling

a lot of people. And in fact I did I did say on the phone I said, I said I said you like wow, this is you like you guys must be calling a lot of people and And I was told like we're really not we're really not like, okay That's got a face value and You know ultimately And ultimately, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I guess it was a cold call. I'm trying to remember what the, what was the rest of the question, Evan?

After that cold call, like, did you think that this was going to potentially lead to the appearance or at that point where you sort of like, this is just a... Oh, I really, like, I think in my heart of hearts, I think I felt like, I was like, okay, let's play this out. Let's see. Let's see where it goes.

I never really felt like very solid that it was going to happen for me. I think that like, I would say like, I felt like it maybe there's like a 25, 30% chance. My wife always felt like that it was higher, but you have to start getting ready. You have to, you know, you know, you can't not get ready. So I did like that. I like that part where you like are preparing. Was there a conversation with the host? I would say like much later in the game, I had a very quick call with the producers and

I don't know if that was the experience of everybody, but it was a, you know, a team of producers I spoke to. And it was it was very brief and I felt like I didn't feel like and this was the hardest part of the experience for me was that I felt like I didn't nail

it. And I was very upset. I was never upset to not get picked. I was upset that I felt like I didn't Nail the the call that I had I thought that it would be a little bit more like hey get to know you and it was a bunch of questions and Ultimately, I just felt like that I Came in a little tight and I and I really got the vibe that they felt like

Does he really want it? That's really I think was The takeaway that I got from that of like that there was a lot of talk like we want to see how bad you want It but look I don't want to do anything. Okay, uh You know, do I really want to go on survivor? I gotta be honest not not really Would I do it? Yes, if they called me and said Rob come out and and I'd fight like hell and I would do everything I could and I Die before that I quit the game, but do I do I want to go on survivor? I mean Not really. I have a good gig

So a great gig and yeah, that's why we get people like Devon's. And that's why I'm really not super bummed. Like I am, you know, in my heart, I love Survivor. Survivor is so meaningful. I can imagine myself being on Survivor and like, you know, getting emotional about what it would mean to come full circle and go home to Survivor. That would really mean so much to me. But am I clamoring to do it? I have to say, I think maybe that bled through. So I just want to be fair to if they're looking for people that were ready to run through a brick wall

to go Berserko on Survivor 50 like that that probably wouldn't have been me doesn't mean I wouldn't have like I'm sure Boston Rob had some apprehension to come back for winners at war. No doubt I'm sure that they had to like twist his arm a little bit and talk him into it but I think that like having fear and Doing something anyway is courage that have no fear and do something risky is foolishness Is there any part of you Rob that looks at the cast list for Survivor 50 and says? This person like I could have taken that spot.

I don't know necessarily, like, if you were going to, like, switch somebody out for me, especially because they went so heavy on, like, the newer players. I don't know who that necessarily would be. Maybe Coach or Colby. And I feel like that in terms of, like, the Survivor, like, legends in Pantheontheon like I feel like I Do like I have a nice survivor story, and I think that these guys are sort of like household names

So they did not go Super heavy into the era in which I played I kind of thought that I might be a good fit if They wanted somebody from the old days who knows how to play the game now if they really cared about like having exciting gameplay I thought that I would be hey, I'm your guy you want somebody from Single digits that actually has kept up with the show and knows what they're doing I'm your guy But I think that they like opted for some of the names and honestly that's not even my problem with the cast so To go back to the some of the names and honestly that's not even my problem with the cast. So to go back to some of the names they brought back from that era, it's fine.

Well, okay, one more thing on this because if you did play, let's say we swap you out with, please, Rick Devins. Okay, you're in Rick Devins' spot and you go out there, there's 12 new era people. You've got good relationships with all of these people. They've all been on the podcast multiple times and they know you and they revere you. You've also got decent relationships with the old school people. A lot of them have been on the podcast multiple times. Does that get you a ticket to the end? Like are people afraid of you? Or does it get you voted out first? I don't know if I would get no, hopefully not get it voted out first. I do feel like that I would have a very big threat level. That being said, I also felt like that I would be having

relationships with everybody. I felt like that I was like the one person who had all these connections where I kind of felt like that I could be going to a Jenna Lewis who I know well, or even like a Colby. I think he remembers who I am. But also talking to Kyle and Camilla, I have a relationship with every single person that's on the show, Maybe minus one. But I think that I would have mostly good relationships. Wait, who's the one?

Well, Mike. But I guess I do have a relationship. Right, oh yes, of course. It might not be a warm relationship. Right. I just wanna say, I think when 50Raps filming, I think we, Drop Your Buffs, are going to broker this situation.

I would love that. I will be, I'm gonna be on my best situation. I would love that. I will be, I'm going to be on my best behavior. I promise. Right. I promise. Um, you know, just to put a pin in this side of the conversation, I will say I can, I can only speak for myself here. I'm devastated, uh, that you are not on.

I think first of all, you would have set the record, you would have matched rather the record that Jenna is now setting. I've been out of the game longer than Jenna Lewis. Oh, yes. This is true. Wow. She went a lot further. Pardon me. You would have set the record that Jenna is now setting. I've been out of the game longer than Jenna Lewis. Oh, yes. This is true. She went a lot further. Pardon me. You would have set the record.

But I also think if we're going to use the tagline. Maybe one day I will. Maybe one day. If we're going to use the tagline in the hands of the fans, I can think of no person within the Survivor universe who has cultivated and developed not only their own fandom, but helped sort of corral the fandom around this show. So I think with that theme,

you make even more sense outside of the fact that many people wanna see back. That was the thing I was like when they talked about like, we're looking for people who represent, you know, the joyful people. I'm like, okay, maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm what they're looking for. Oh, you're joyful You're joyful. I I mean don't ask my wife

She would not describe me as joyful that being said, you know I kind of thought maybe maybe I had what they were looking for and really I mean this sincerely I Do not have any ill will they they wanted to go a different direction It's it's fine with me like I would it would have been an honor an honor that I could not have turned down to have been asked and have gone I would I would have went but at the same time I would have wake up in the middle of the night like what am I doing why why why am I doing this this could go hard this could be the biggest

mistake I ever make in my life. There was high upside and an extremely low floor. So I was fine for them to make the decision and say, you know, maybe some other time was absolutely fine with me. How reliable do you think it is? We've heard from a lot of people, Carolyn and Jesse, as you mentioned, Abby Maria, Jerry that have come forward and be like, I was cut. But in the case of like an Amanda Kimmel, for instance, that's all to my understanding hearsay because we have not heard from Kimmel

about Survivor 50 or pretty much Survivor in general since 2020, I believe, Sean, fact checking. So when in those instances, when we hear someone like Elizabeth or Amanda were cut, how reliable do you find that information to be? I mean, their names were out there. I mean, I kind of feel like that they're what must have been smoke. This is my theory with Elizabeth, Evan, and you know, you tell me if you buy this. I think that they were in conversation with Elizabeth and that maybe Elizabeth might have been up to do it.

And maybe Elizabeth had like a figure that she expected to be paid for the show and Survivor was like, No, doing that. That's an interesting theory. I don't subscribe to that because I think Elizabeth would have wanted to do it for her kids. I think she's got teenagers who it would have looked really cool for them to get to see mom on television kicking some ass. So I don't know. I think something else happened and I couldn't

know to speculate but. I do think there was a figure. I think there's a figure involved. I mean, she would love to do it. She's not doing it for free. But wouldn't that have been discussed from the outset? Like, I just don't think that would all of a sudden they'd be like deep in conversation and all of a sudden the figure gets brought up for the first time. And she's like, oh, no, no, no, no. I think from the initial conversation you ask, is there a fee? Give me a ballpark in order to continue the conversation.

Yeah. And then as far as Amanda goes, you know, it sounded like we heard Amanda, Amanda, Amanda, and then all of a sudden no, Amanda. And so I think that there's like some speculation about like did did she opt out? I don't think that they, you know, would have wanted to have cut her.

Yeah, I don't know. they would have wanted to have cut her. Yeah. I don't know. It is definitely an interesting chapter of my life. So I appreciate the chance to talk about it more. The Hot Honey McRispy is so back at McDonald's with juicy 100% Canadian raised seasoned chicken, shredded lettuce, crispy jalapenos, and that completely craveable hot honey sauce,

it's a sweet heat repeat you don't want to miss. Get your Hot Honey McCrispy today. Available for a limited time only at McDonald's. Are you ready to talk about your picks that you made for a dream tribe. Yeah, can I preface this a little bit because Evan and I got into quite a fight. I created a Google document with 77 names on it.

You're like Jeff. It was much like the casting of Survivor 50. We started with 700, we got it down to 77. We got it down to 77 and then Evan's like, oh, can you send me the doc? And it's always scary to send Evan a doc because he starts slashing and burning. So I've got the, you know, you know how Google Docs works.

I'm watching in real time Evan cut, cut, cut every name that I liked, right? And so my heart goes out a little bit. Like I have some sympathy to how Survivor has to cast these shows. Did they nail it with 50? I don't know. I think we wound cast these shows. Did they know with 50? I don't know. I think we wound up with a better, you know, top 20, but having said that

we have landed at eight people, maybe a couple of honorable mentions. And it was very, very difficult. And what we didn't do was we didn't include those ones that we've kind of like already talked about, right? Like, of course, gerrymanthy deserves a spot on survivor 50, but we didn't do was we didn't include those ones that we've kind of like already talked about, right? Like, of course, gerrymanthy deserves a spot on survivor 50, but we didn't include it here. It's sort of oversaturated. So we wanted to make sure it was like very drop your buffs coded. So if you want to get a glimpse into the twisted mind of drop your buffs, you're going to get

it. Sean, do you think that for a listener who maybe isn't familiar with Drop Your Buffs, can you explain a little bit more of what Drop Your Buffs coded would mean? Yeah. I'd love to hear this. So I think generally speaking, what Drop Your Buffs values in Survivor is making great television. We talk about that all the time. You can be a great strategist, sure. Does it make for interesting TV?

Not all the time. We've seen that. And I think that what we look for is, we don't value strategy really at all, a little bit, right? But if you can go on television and make a good TV show, if you are a good personality, charismatic, usually an older female, we love you. And so that's what Drop Your Buffs Coded is.

We like those moments that most of them are on, like the funny 115, most of them are on there. They're not really super obscure, but they're not necessarily the Eric gives up his immunity idol in Micronesia. It's not necessarily that. I know Mike Bloom's doing the top 25 greatest moments in Survivor history coming up this month. I put my votes in. I'll say most of the things were there. Some were missing, i.e. Helen Glover's final jury speech. That is a drop your buffs coded moment.

Wow. Okay. All right. So let's go. Let's get into it. I'm dying to see. Okay. And I'll give you feedback. All right. Let's see. Okay. So Brandon Donlin has a slideshow. Okay. All right. Let's start with the honorable mentions. Okay. Let's see if it's get a different view here. Speaking of Elizabeth. Oh, that's a view I'd like to see. All right. We have here, okay. Drop Your Buffs loves Survivor Nicaragua. And we have Judson Fabio Berza.

Now, have either of you tracked down Fabio over the years? I gotta tell you something. Sean? My algorithm is so twisted that I think because Meta sort of like owns the internet, my Facebook and my Instagram, they know each other, right? And so the drop your buffs Instagram is infiltrating my Facebook, which I don't even use. But sometimes the notifications pop up and I have to check it. Last week, I got a notification from Facebook

suggesting Fabio as a friend. Yes. Okay. Did you accept it? No, it just suggested it. I wasn't gonna friend Fabio. Because I had not heard of a Fabio sighting since the last known Fabio sighting that I had heard was that he showed up in, I don't know what year, I'm guessing like 2015, that I believe he attended the taping of the Survivor Prices Right,

the infamous one where they said that they referred to Ozzy and Sierra Don Thomas as fan favorites, pointing the fan favorite Sierra and game changer Sierra Don Thomas. It's giving Aubrey master strategist. Yes, Aubrey master strategist as well. So here he is, Fabio. And look, I would love to see what a... He was like 21 when he won, and that was what, 15 years ago. So Fabio is only like in his late 30s.

Yeah. And we did see there were some images that surfaced of him a few years back of like him on the farm. And he was looking delicious. I will say there is a recent Fabio citing actually in the wake of Jane's passing. There is like a survivor alumni Facebook group. Yes. That we were sent screenshots of cause we are not alumni.

We would not be in. Who's sending screenshots from the alumni Facebook group? And Fabio commented about in response to Jane's passing. So he is and also just the mere fact that he is in that group, I found quite intriguing. I think they just add me to the group. You don't even have to opt in.

It's just like that. It used to be like it used to be active and that the survivor Facebook group alumni group. And then they were just like somebody would just like add. I don't know who group. And then somebody would just add, I don't know who the administrator was, they would just add the whole new cast,

like welcome, new people. Interesting, I am not on Facebook, so I would not have that capability, but envious. But my thing with Fabio, I tend to have a great amount of admiration, not just relevant to Survivor, but in general, to people that dip into reality TV and dip out and we never hear from them again.

I think that the most, the best instance of this in the new era would be Genevieve, because I feel like she went, she did the show, and you're not gonna hear from her until now. But in general, I think one of my big frustrations with new era casting is just how the camaraderie and the desire to be a part of the community. So I would say that Fabio,

and I don't think she's an honorable mention, but worth putting her name in the sphere here would be Natalie White. Two winners that are completely out of the Survivorverse that I would just be so intrigued to be like, I have no idea what you're like. I have no idea what you look like. I have no idea if you watch the show.

I have no idea about the person that you are today. So whether or not I want to see them back on the show, the answer is yes, but also I just have a ton of intrigue because of their absence from the answer is yes. But also I just have a ton of intrigue, uh, because of their absence from the survivor space. It would be so fascinating to see him in a modern survivor perspective. First off that, do you think he would still go by Fabio? Like the name that he got, he got coined by like, uh, a guy that was on the show for two, that said, you look like Fabio. And then do you think that like,

he doesn't go by Fabio in his real life, but now- I don't think he'd have a choice. Yeah, and so he comes back and he was kind of sort of like, he was smarter than he'd led on, but like, I think that there was like a little bit of like, you know, surfer guy charm to him. I don't know what that looks like as like a 36, 37 year old person. Well, exactly.

And I want to know the answer to that. And just based on those, I think there was two images of him on the farm that surfaced, I don't know who got them or how they got them. Still thinking about them. They're beautiful. Wow. And it's a different archetype. He's now the hot farm hand.

And so I want to see that version of Faga. What is he doing on the farm? Does he own the farm? I don't know. He was running a tractor. Yeah. Because I'm friends with him. I'm looking at his Facebook.

I don't see any farm photos. Am I following a fan account? I don't know.. I don't know. I don't know. But if there's a fan account, I'm going to follow it. This is true. Maybe we'll make it. Can you think of any other instance? Yeah. Can you think of any other instance of someone as young as him returning to the show in an adult form?

I guess Kelly Wigglesworth comes to mind, but she didn't read as young as he did. I don't remember how old she was in Borneo. I once said she was 22 in Borneo, and then she comes back in Survivor Second Chances, which is like, it's a close, similar time jump. It's probably like 13 or 14 years later after Borneo and it was not necessarily compelling television for her to come back I have

no idea what he's like I'm not spending any time with Fabio outside of Survivor he's one of the few people that has played like in post heroes versus villains that I really have almost no interaction with. Yeah. And I think it's that wild card factor that makes him so intriguing. Exactly. Even the Kelly Wigglesworth comparison is like, yes, Kelly Wigglesworth came on to second chances and gave us absolutely nothing, but the fact that she did that adds to the legend and the myth of Kelly Wigglesworth.

I'm glad she did that. I lost respect that I once had for Kelly Wigglesworth as a player of the game and as a character, like a real legendary character of Survivor. But I'm glad that I have that full picture now of who Kelly Wigglesworth is. Okay. I mean, you make a compelling case of what a adult Judson should do. But I think that that's one that are you ready for my letter grade for Judson? Yeah. OK. I'm going to give this one a C.

I would I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I'm not dying to see Judson back on Survivor. Okay, fair enough. Can I make one more argument in the case? Yes. You know, Stephen Fishback, my former boss, often talks about wanting hot people back- My current boss. Your current boss? Wanting hot people back on Survivor? Yes.

This is a hot person. And I think no disrespect intended to the cast of season 50 were a little low on, I'm speaking about the men here as a gay man, were a little low on the hot men and look at this image. I think it speaks for itself. Yeah. Okay. I think there's a lot of variance there. He could, like, that he might be incredible.

You know, I have no idea what he would be like. So it's just so hard to imagine. Yeah. I doubt that he would be incredible. You know, I have no idea what he would be like. So it's just so hard to imagine. Yeah, I doubt that he would be incredible. Track him down for an interview. Would love to. Now that you're friends with him. Well, you're Facebook friends with him. Why don't you track him down for an interview?

Okay, I'll put T-Bird on it. Yeah. Please. Oh my God, I would die. Okay. By the way, can I also, I got a incredibly sweet message from T-Bird the other day congratulating me for being on the cast of Survivor 50. And I don't, I've told her I'm not on Survivor 50, but I think she thought I was like the

final hours before I was getting my phone taken away. And she sent me this incredibly nice message. And I said, T-Bird, I told you I'm not on Survivor 50. Wow. She's like, what? What? Where's T-Bird on Survivor 50? That's a great question. Did she get called?

So she between, you know, listen, she's she told Lex, you know, one answer and the truth was different. She told me she did not. And she told Lex that she did? No, I'm talking about like when Lex asked, did you vote for me? She said, oh, no. OK, got it. So I don't know if you could ever take what she says

at face value. Right, true. OK, all right. Sean is gooting right now. I'm so ready. I'm so ready to talk about Helen Glover. Helen Glover. OK, here we go.

Now, I wanted to bring this up earlier. I knew Helen Glover was going to be on the list. Now, I wanted to bring this up earlier. I knew Helen Glover was gonna be on the list. Now, did Helen Glover break her leg recently? Yes, she did. Yes. And is this the ultimate full circle moment? Because did she not tell Brian or Clay, like, I hope you break a leg at the final travel council?

She did. She did. And this is the thing, keeping up with Helen Glover is one of our favorite pastimes. Helen Glover is in retirement. She's traveling the world. She's breaking her leg. She has the adventurous spirit that she had on Survivor Thailand. Yeah. deserves a spot on Survivor 50. Talk about, this is Drop Your Buffs coded, right? I already referenced her final tribal speech, which I think rivals Sue Hawk's speech

as a potential equally iconic speech in Survivor history. Unfortunately, far fewer. And he's not trolling. I'm, like, have you watched it? I think that people forget, that's the thing. I think people forget the final tribal speech and the power that it had because people forget Survivor Thailand, probably for many good reasons. But I think that Helen was the breakout star.

I think that I would sort of compare her to, I think she is a lot like Cathy Fabric O'Brien. I also think she has qualities of her that Jane Bright had in Nicaragua. Um, and I think that that's the kind of character that's missing, particularly from the new era is an experienced, mature woman. Helen Glover had the survivalist aspects where she really brought that survivalist aspects, where she really brought that survivor, survival aspect to the show, which is very sadly missing, I think, from the new era. But ultimately, she's just a straight shooter. And I think she's a great confessionalist. We can never forget the gun confessional. Iconic.

And just the fact that she and Jan went out on a boat, not knowing where they're going is iconic television. You want to talk about making television. That's television. And then it's the way that she takes her vote out so personally. And another thing I think we're sadly lacking in the new era is the good sportsmanship of it all. And she comes in and gives this wild final

tribal council speech. And it's not even just the words, it's the facial expressions, right? Right. I remember, like the vibes of it more. Was there an iconic line from her final tribal council? A to Brute? Yeah. That one. And you're the epitome of a used car salesman. Yes. That's a good one, too. And yet, she goes on to vote for Brian because she hates Clay that much. Incredible. Yeah.

This is a very good pick. I really think that Helen Glover deserved a spot on the original Survivor All Stars. And for whatever reason, they never come back to her. My reservation with Helen Glover, when we start talking about Survivor 50. Is it the broken leg? Well prior to the broken leg I believe that and I had to check fact check this but I believe she's 70?

Sounds right. Yeah. I just I do wonder and who who is the oldest member of the actual Survivor 50 cast like Mike White? And how old is he? He's not he's early 50s.

I think he's in his mid 50s. Yeah. I do wonder like to have to put a 70 year old woman onto the show. Like would that potentially be maybe... And a 70-year-old woman has no problem in the new era. Does that in any way reflect poorly on the intensity of the new era? Well, maybe so, but I'd like to see it.

Let's test it to find out. Right now we're prognosticating and I feel like we need data points. So I think we need to attempt to do it and see what happens. Yeah. So I think that's the problem. Like the age diversity or the lack of age diversity in the new era is one of our biggest gripes of the new era

because you had so many iconic characters, older characters in the first stretch of sort of like one to 10 and a little bit in 11 to 20. But I feel like that's what really gets us back to the microcosm aspect of Survivor. I think we've done great on racial diversity, maybe not as great on season 15, but we've done great on that in the new era, but we have condensed it into like, sort of like a very tight

age frame and quite frankly, a very tight class frame as well, which is a different conversation, but I feel like getting a little bit more diversity, getting more older people on the show. Even if it's just those, like the it's just those like the token 60 year old or the token 70 year old, I think offers a completely different dynamic for the other players to work with. And if any 70 year old could do it,

it would be Helen Glover on two working legs. 100%. But can you speak to what you think in the new era, challenge wise is so challenging that a 70 year old, I guess the one thing that comes to mind is the scaling of the very tall wall. But even then I think someone can pull you over it. I'm just, we're not sumo wrestling in the new era.

You know what I mean? So is there a specific challenge you're thinking of that you think would be a hindrance to them? I'm not saying that I don't think that she could do the challenges. I'm saying that if you know somebody was able to come out there and be 70 years old and like have no problems in the new era, I'm wondering if that like, okay well the new era is so intense you don't realize how tough it is the 26 day format and if Helen Glover is able to do it no problem I feel like that maybe

and people say okay well was it was it as hard as they say it is? I mean, I'm just thinking about Survivor Australia Season Three, a woman named Shane, and I believe she was in her 70s, and I think she kicked some fucking ass. So that's my argument. Yeah, okay. I'm gonna give Helen Glover a B.

I think that she would have been an A, and she really was, Sean, one of my all-time favorites when I had watched Thailand. And I had a weird experience that I left to go play survivor during Thailand's airing, but I got to meet Helen Glover a bunch of times and she was wonderful. And I have always had an appreciation for Helen Glover. And she's another great talking With T-Bird interview. Yeah, she was great and she still had it and her and Jan. Jan was great.

That one was great too, yeah. So those are all up on the website if anybody wants to go back and listen to those. Put Jan on 50. Jan was so good on the Talking With T-Bird. Yeah, she was incredible. All right. These were the honorableird. Yeah, she was incredible. Mm-hmm. All right. These were the honorable mentions. Those were the honorable mentions.

The real tribe. OK. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to, and hit play on your next adventure. Stay three nights this summer at Best Western, and get $50 off a future stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western.

Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale expertise and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. Next up, you've got Greg Buiss. Yeah, to me, and I'm happy for Jenna Lewis, who I've known forever, but I really, that would be such a dream come true for Greg to have been on Survivor 50.

And I think Redmond said he got a call. I don't know if he was reticent to do it. I've never met Greg. I've always wanted to meet Greg. I've always wanted to talk to Greg. And if they could have gotten Greg, that would have been what a coup. Absolutely. Also, we did a Borneo rewatch a few months ago or maybe years at this point. And I think years you forget how big of a character Greg was

on the earlier part of the show, because I think a lot of people's minds in thinking about Borneo stick to those, you know, those final days when things really heated up. And obviously there's just so many particularly iconic characters, but Greg was a really big character on that season. I think to put Colleen Haskell into the ether

is a bit too galaxy brained. And so I think Greg was where we settled because Greg feels like someone who is gettable. But also, it's just the... I am particularly looking for players that have never come back. And so that's why certain people, while I'm excited about Stephanie LaGrosse, for instance,

I think if, particularly right now,se, for instance, I think if particularly right now, especially as you said, when these might be people's last opportunity to play, we need to prioritize first time returnees. Greg as just a person, you know, such a interesting figure in the show's early days. But I think that Greg was really the first person to like walk away from it all. And he walked away from it all at a time when there was like people were not saying please go away. People were the public at large was like, okay, hey, you all are like the Beatles, you know, we want it. We want more from you. And he left that he left it all behind and never turned back.

And I think that's such an interesting story. Yeah, exactly. He fits that Natalie White and Fabio sort of narrative that is so appealing to us. I also think he's so representative of Pagong and that tribe. I mean, great that we have Jenna Lewis, but I feel like the real representatives of Pagong

are probably Gretchen, Greg and Colleen. Um, when I, when I think back to that tribe and short of getting Gretchen back on Survivor, which by the way, we would love, I think that Greg is the most realistic and there's that lore around him being, um, considered for Cambodia and the second chance vote. And then that not working out. I think there's still interest. We reached out to Greg.

I think we talked about this last time. We got a flattered, but no. So the fact that he said flattered, I was like, okay, he's ready to play again. He's a fan. Okay. I mean, call him up on the coconut phone. Also only 49 years old, still very young guy.

And just on that theme of wanting some lookers on the season, I don't have eyes on Greg over the last few decades, but looking at this picture alone, I'm kind of like, I'm intrigued. Yeah. Now, what if he did get Greg on the phone and he was like, you know, guys, I'm so glad you contacted me. Like, we got to talk about these vaccines. We got to, you know, non-zero chance like, uh, we got to talk about these vaccines. We got zero chance. Like, uh, that Greg, who is like an interesting figure in 2000, he could be, you know, so far off the beaten

path, you know, breakdown survivor 48, not that you do want to either. But you know, you know, who is like that is Helen Glover. I don't know if you've looked at her Instagram. Yes, Helen Glover, she used to have a radio show. So she's a bit... I don't know if Greg has white lotus takes for you. I think that's the kind of person we want to see on Survivor. Do we agree with them? No. Are they going to make good TV? Yes. So if Greg wants to talk about the vaccines, put them on the show. Yeah. Okay. A plus for Greg. Wow. Finally, we're getting somewhere. Okay. Vasepia. Vasepia. I feel like Vasepia is a great bridge to gap the old school with the new era. We talked to Vasepia two or three years ago now, and she's still

interested in Survivor. She was furious not to be called for Survivor 40, not even to be called, email, no call. And she did tell us that it was likely the last time she could have bled, she said her knees are getting bad. But I don't care for me. Put her on 50. I think that the sepia, this is the thing is like, of course she's a historic winner. She's the first black winner. She's the last female black winner until Maryann. And I think that that is significant in and of itself.

And the show has sort of hidden her weirdly for reasons I've never quite understood. I get that she wasn't necessarily the fan favorite of that season, but I think that she holds an important place and certainly on a re-examination of Marquesas, she is electrifying to watch. And I think that she still has that based on our conversation with her.

And I feel like she and Sean, who allegedly also cut from 50, were having conversations on Marquesas that the show sort of pretended didn't happen until Survivor 41. And I think that that's significant. And I think that she should be recognized for that. And I think she should be at least contacted. And I think that if she was contacted and put on the show, I think she could still make that great TV.

Yeah. Incredible disrespect to the Vesepia to not call her for survivor for it. Now, I don't know if, but the next slide is going to be, if the next slide is going to be Sean Rector. When you talk about that, the seppy was electric television, though I think that that is the one thing that I might push back on in that the sepia's game was too much drama. There's, there's too much drama going on here. And she, I don't know if this was like the original sin from the producers of that she very much wanted to be

Under the radar and so that's a great way to play the game and as a significant historic figure in Survivor history that's been overlooked for far too long I'm with you there, but if we're looking for who's gonna go out there to make the best television I'm not sure necessarily if the sepia is the person that's on my shortlist when we have Sean, who also we could bring back potentially, who I feel like that that was maybe Sean was shining so much. Maybe it took away from what the sepia was doing, but I think that the sepia very consciously was trying and maybe

there are reasons why she felt like that she could not be shining as bright as Sean was able to. But I feel like that Sean, I think would be the pick if I could pick one of the two. That makes sense. And I think I don't think we have a strong case to make around her being great television, but I feel strongly about that a debt of gratitude is owed to her. And so I don't know if it's necessarily needs to be repaid in the form of survivor 50,

but I think this might be like a symbolic pick for us just because we feel really strongly about her and the fact that she, again, as we said, wasn't contacted, but also is very much interested in going out there. I also like to always leave room for the fact that she again as we said wasn't contacted but also is very much interested in going out there. I also like to always leave room for the fact that like there could be a side of Vespia that we didn't see on season four that emerges in season. She did have some shady lines like when she said Sarah she has a good body she paid for it or she paid a lot for it too, something like that. Yeah. And I think that I saw more of that

Vespia in an older Vespia when we spoke to her. And when we brought up Survivor Season 40, I mean, she got pretty feisty and she had some strong words to say. Yes. And we talked to her around that time that Survivor 40 was happening also. And she she is a good interview. So I have to give the Sepia that I just feel like that Sean was the person who was in the rumor mill for so much for this. And then to not have him be there is just such a disappointment.

Yeah. OK, what's the grade? I would say B for Vizepia. OK, just matching Helen Glover. OK, here we go. Our girl. Am I taking this one? Well, go for it.

No, wait, who put her in Me or You? Well, it was a joint effort. OK, you go ahead. Well, the thing is, I think that Kathy Vavrik O'Brien is up there with the Helen Glovers as the most Drop Your Buffs coded sort of players that you can think of. Have you interviewed her? Yes, we have. We have.

She called from her car. Yeah. She called in from her car, was very worried about that. She was wearing her survivor hat. Yeah. And it was an incredible interview. She had so many interesting things to say. I think it would be great.

Part of the reason that I went with the sepia over Sean is because I know we're putting Kathy on our tribe here and how interesting would it be to revisit that all these years, like 23 years later, because Kathy told us that she was so mad about the Vasepia's betrayal that she wrote her a letter and then she went and took that letter and burned it in her backyard. Yeah. Oh, my God. The drama. The drama. And was this recently?

It was two years ago. Yeah. No, but did she, she, she recently was still mad about this. Cause I think this is not a ton of love lost there. No, I don't, I don't think that the letter was recent. I think the letter was post season. But she, I think she respects the sepia, but I think she still feels it. And I think that that's why Kathy is so great is she feels everything so deeply.

And she, I mean, we saw that in the all stars finale, right? Um, and that, that makes her such a great character though. There's a quality to Kathy that I think is unmatched across all 750, whatever survivor players, uh, that have ever appeared on our screens. There is no other Cathy Babwick O'Brien. I'm also not big on superlatives in general, especially with Survivor, but I feel comfortable putting Cathy

in my top 10 of all time. And I think what Cathy shares in common, I think the biggest one-to-one with Cathy would be Angelina, our, I would say Sean, our number one pick of season 50, if I may. Am I correct there? Sure. Okay.

So for me, Kathy has that perfect balance of self-awareness and then a total lack of self-awareness, but I think it's the balance, right? Because simply self-unaware people are not always great television, but Kathy has a conviction around who she believes she is, and she's not totally off the mark. She has a lot to offer, and she knows a lot.

It's part of why the tribe ultimately come around on her in the early days after her bumpy road in the beginning of Marquesas, because they realize her value and the layers that exist underneath of her. But at the same time, like in Angelina, there is that lacking in self-awareness, which I think brings the great television component.

And then also add to that her eagerness and desire to go back because as you pointed out with someone like Sean Rector, it's like, we want people that wanna play the game again, which will not be true of someone like- And she said she's ready to go back? Not only is she ready to go back, she said, I have a plan and a strategy that nobody else has ever done and it's specifically suited to the new era and I'm not telling you guys because I'm planning on being back. My only hesitation with her is I think she's also 70. Great. If she's also 70. Great.

If she's ready, we can't deny her this. She's ready. She's ready to go. She's draping all over Vermont doing property tours. She was also one of my personal favorites. I was so fortunate to get the chance to spend time with her in real life a number of times. She's a good time. Kathy Babrick O'Brien. So look, I'd love to see it.

I also feel like you know how popular Felicia was on Big Brother, what was it, 24? Yes. So I feel like Kathy could have that similar quality in the internet, taking a real liking to someone like Kathy Vavrik O'Brien, because I will say within the new era, outside of really Carolyn, we don't really have mean queens the way someone like Felicia on Big Brother was. And survivor could use some mean queens if you know what I mean. And I think Kathy could deliver that in spades. And I think that the I think that the new era fans don't

quite know what mother means when they use the term mother. They think Genevieve, right? Because she got a bob. No, no, no, no, no. If Kathy Vavrik O'Brien showed up on their screens, then they would know what mother means. And her laugh is iconic. She's like, ha! So, yeah. I remember when she found those skeletons. Remember when she peed on John Carroll's hand? I remember. The way she was weaving palm fronds and the way she activated, she heard the call and her ears went up and she ran.

And there's that great shot of her running down the beach. Like, Oh my God, I'm here. And John, my hand's not hurting anymore, but she's still peeing on me. And we got to give an honorable mention to our boy, John Carroll. Obviously there's only so much room on this list, but his name was invoked. And I feel like it needs to be said. He would also be on a list if we had a little bit more room.

And he would play hard. He would be like, nobody would be like more intense than him. Would love to see it. Okay. You know what, bring back the Hallmark cases cast. Let's just redo it. Hey, I'm ready to go, Sean. I heard the call.

Except Pascal. Mm-hmm. Wow. Shots. Except Pascal. Wow. Shots fired at Pascal. Well, I think he, well, whatever. Oh, I think he might not be wanted. I think he says legal troubles. Okay. All right.

I didn't know that. Okay. Cut the feed. All right. Pascal. Worse luck than with the purple rock, unfortunately. Okay, all right. I'll give it A to Cathy Babrick-O'Brien

if she's ready to come back. Or cooking. Okay. Ian Rosenberger. Oh my God. So this would be in my, I don't wanna, again, I don't like superlatives. Offers another superlative. This would be a my, I don't want to, again, I don't like superlatives, offers another superlative.

This would be a top contender for me. I feel like when it comes to unfinished business, there are a few players that have such a dot, dot, dot in their storyline as Ian. There's also the element that we talked about with Judson, which is played as a very young person, eager to see them play again. I also feel like when people make lists of great players, Ian is pretty seldom on them. And I think that there's more Ian deserves a little bit more consideration

within the fandom as to what he offered. Obviously, I think when you are the beta in a duo, the alpha tends to take up a lot of, you know, economy for a reason. But I think Tom got his due. I think it's time that Ian has some shine. Now, this is like the talking with T-Bird All-Stars. You had a good interview with Ian, but I think he really did not seem very interested in coming back. I think he said he would play if like the prize was like $5 million or something like that.

Which yeah. Yeah. So he would be very interesting. He was doing some like a amazing charitable things. I just feel like in terms of like a desire to play again, I don't know if he has that now. I know this is like your dream list of people that would come back, but I'm not sure if he's necessarily like a Kathy Baberick O'Brien of like, like get me in there. I think we could talk him into it.

I mean, I think Ian's so interesting because I think he's interesting because he's right on the cusp. Like that season is right on the cusp, like that season is right on the cusp of a changing in value of sort of like loyalty, integrity, honesty to strategy. Like that I think really takes over in the teens. I feel like Ian, that's what Ian's struggling with in the final three. So I feel like he's one of the last real victims

of that mentality, except, well, let's forget 48. But I feel like he's- It's a throwback. Exactly. Boy, would he love Joe. And so I think that he deserves another chance to play the game as it evolved just a couple seasons after he was there. Can I also just add to this? Ian's a dad now.

Ian very much played the game in son of Tom mode. So in terms of like the Freaky Friday of it all, I think it'd be really cool to see someone like Ian come back in that, not necessarily that he would be a dad in that sense, but as a quite literal dad, I think it would just be fun to see the evolution of his character. Yeah. It seems like that they missed the boat with him in terms of like maybe heroes versus villains. I guess they brought back Tom for that or like fans versus favorites. It feels like they could have used him in one of those spots. I just have no idea.

Like he's a little bit in the Fabio camp of I don't know what he looks like as a player now. And I'm not sure he has the desire to come back and do it. So for me, this one's going to be a C. Okay, we'll take our grade. Yeah. The new Mitsubishi Outlander brings out another side of you. Your regular side listens to classical music.

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Mitsubishi Motors, drive your ambition. All right, well. Wow, wow, wow. Okay, I'll let Sean. Hi, Luca. I'll let Sean go, but can I just preface in the lead up? I know it seems these days that everybody is aboard the Amanda train, but I remember when we first started

this pod, that was not the flavor of the week out there. And so I'm not saying we're the OGs by any measure. I know the Amanda heads are alive and well, but I just feel like lately all of a sudden there's such a unified sentiment around Amanda as the fallen angel. And that wasn't, when I first got into this fandom, regretfully at times, that was not the case.

I was not hearing the buzz around Amanda. Well, we were not the pioneers of the Amanda Stan army because do you know who radicalized me to support Amanda Kimmel was the Survivor Historians. Yes. I always liked Amanda Kimmel. Shout out to her, Lawrence. I liked her a lot, but then it was Survivor Historians really pushed me over the edge

and I was like, wait, no, Amanda is the moment. We love Paul. Yes. The OG Amanda Kimmel Stan. And she has such an interesting survivor. I don't want to say a body of work in that she plays three times in six seasons, 15, 16, 20, and then is gone and really was like a blip on the survivor radar. And she played, I mean now we're at 50 seasons, so she played like basically in like 10% of the show's history. It was like all Amanda all the time and then she's been gone for 30 seasons. And that's what's so interesting to me about her because I find you can't really separate out her three seasons.

They all sort of happened so quickly in succession. And the fact that she went to the end in China, thought she won, then goes out to play Micronesia without knowing that she didn't win China. In fact, she didn't even come second place. Goes to the end of Micronesia. She was like Russell, that she went into play on Micronesia thinking she had already won China. That's what Parvati told us, yes. Amanda believed that she had won a million dollars in China.

Then she goes to the end of Micronesia. She thinks she won that one too. So she goes home from Micronesia believing she is the first two-time winner of Survivor. She has two million dollars coming her way in the next year. Did she get into debt? I hope not, but I don't know. And so she then has to experience the loss of China and then the loss of Micronesia, which is a big blow to her. And then there's some interpersonal issues between her and Ozzy and her

and Parvati that take place between then and Heroes vs. Villains. And so like, I think all of that really affected her and Heroes vs. Villains. And so they're all weirdly tied up together to the point that Amanda never got to play a returning player season sort of in isolation or with some independence. And I would love to see it. Is she the, is she the most interesting television? Not always, but sometimes. And I think that she fills a role. Not everybody has to be, uh, you know, a top tier star. There are roles to play.

And I think Amanda as, you know, best supporting actress is where she shines. And that's an important role to be playing. Well, we just went back and rewatched Survivor Heroes versus Villains. And I think that Amanda Kimmel is somebody who has, in a lot of ways, been lost to survivor history in that she really is not very celebrated in you know her work

that she did and she was the first Survivor player to hit 100 days. I mean it comes up in Heroes vs Villains. So she was she had this incredible track record which she was the first to get to the end twice in playing two times. And I do think that it would be very interesting to see what it would look like, and especially like to see her caught up in the game, moving as fast as it does. And now at this point, like I would have been interested to see how it goes. And even thinking about,

cause I think there's a comparison to be made between her and Stephanie, you know, both three time players both have their final run on heroes versus villains, both pretty much fizzled out during their final run. But the difference for me is that because we got the taste of Stephanie on first Snake in the Grass and then the Traders, I'm less amped on Stephanie because I saw her recently.

I think I would be more amped if she was, you know, being plucked out of the woodwork, which is how I think Amanda would feel, which goes to the larger point, which is I think both Sean and I, but I think a faction of the fandom, what we really want from Survivor 50 or any returning player season henceforth

is people that it's like, hmm, I wonder what they're up to. Haven't heard from them in a while. Yeah. Whereas some of these picks like a Stephanie, I just heard from her, even though I'm like excited. And I think you set a similar sentiment around Suri, which is like, of course, we're excited that Suri is back. And yes, Suri is a legend, but she's a celebrated legend. And I think what we're really hoping for, again, on any returning player season,

is the lesser celebrated legends getting their due. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. A-plus for Amanda Kimmel. Bring her back. What the hell happened? Why isn't she there? Yeah. All right. Nyanca Mixon, because we have to plug our recent episode we did with Nyanca Mix-In. We talked about it a little bit.

But Nyanca is an incredible interview. And I know you know this, another, you know, I'll start talking with T-Bird episode. We got more of that Nyanca and we got to explain to Nyanca the changes in the new era because she doesn't watch. We were robbed of getting to see Neonca play in the new era. Yes. Could you imagine? Somebody's like given their backstory of like their hardship in life. She just like comes into the confessional like nobody cares.

Shut up. Confessional. She'd say it to their face. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? They to their face. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? They could use it. Sometimes, yeah, okay.

So Naonka lasts longer than any winner in the new era on Survivor Nicaragua. Worth noting because the quit I think looms large over Naonka. And so I think considering what factors led to her quitting, which was mostly the environment, these can be avoided in a new era. First of all, it's shorter, the weather seems better, and they get all these clothes. Neonca was shocked to find out that sometimes

halfway through a season, a new outfit debuts. And that's all she wanted. That's all she wanted. She wanted that in a jacket, much like Angelina. I think we could have a jacket alliance going on on Survivor 50 if Neonca was there. But all of that aside, I think that people forget, yes, of course, Neonca makes incredible television, but Neonca was good at the game. And for somebody who had never seen the show before, which again, that is a big appeal to us,

is these people who are not familiar with the show,, which again, that is a big appeal to us is these people who are not familiar with the show, come in, learn it. Yeah, they found her on like on the Santa Monica pier, right? Yeah, they did. And so she said she had watched a little bit of Heroes vs. Villains, and then came into the game. You know, she got herself a hidden immunity idol, even if she did have to push Kelly B over for it.

But she got it, and she never had to use it. She barely got votes against her the whole season. And then she told us about this strategy that she had, uh, which, uh, what I think about it, it's a little bit confusing, which is that she says that she and Kelly purple, purple Kelly, uh, had decided to quit. And what she was hoping would happen was that Kelly would be asked first and then Kelly to quit. And what she was hoping would happen was that Kelly would be asked first and then Kelly would quit,

get her torch smuffed and then Neonca would choose not to quit. Wow. And that would advance her. Like the Mike Holloway letters plan of like, uh, everybody else buy their letters and I'm not, then I'm not going to do it. Yeah. So what went wrong? Well, well she was asked first. And so this is the part that I can't wrap my head around. Yeah. Is that because she was asked for, she was like, well, I guess I better quit.

But I think I think there's there's a kernel of interesting strategies. Is it possible? Niyanka is not a reliable narrator. Is that possible? Not to me. But it's possible. Also, that would make her great TV. Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of

people. Look, she was great TV. She was the star of that season. I think that, you know, I think she's not unlike, say, this season of, you know, she's somebody who creates a lot of conflict. And then when she is gone, that I do feel like that you missed her presence a lot in those last couple episodes of Survivor Nicaragua without her in the same way I felt like that

you really, there was a vacuum without say that was felt in this past season. And so, Neonca really did stir things up and is, I think that would be appreciated in a way that she was not appreciated in her time. Totally agree. And no disrespect whatsoever to say who we genuinely love, but there's a little bit of like a Timu, Naonka quality to say in the sense that like, Naonka was really messy.

Sei I think was as messy as she could be with limited resources to really create mess because of the lack of variables that presented just because of the lack of players in the game throughout most of her time there. So I just feel like Naonka, there's a level of mess that I think is, I don't remember before her and I don't know in her wake that makes her such a singular character. She's not at all an archetype. She expressed her eagerness to try and play the game

again. And I also think we need to encourage more players coming into returning player season that no longer watch the show and she qualifies. Okay. I'm going to give Neonca a B. I think that you make a great case for her. She wasn't somebody that I was thinking for Survivor 50 of like, I hope we get to see Neonca play one more time, but I would not be mad at it. Rob, did you feel like at the time, this is how I felt, that Neonka,

when she debuted on Survivor, I felt like it signaled a shift in the show and their approach to casting, because I thought that Survivor considered itself higher brow than casting Naonka types that get into like messy drama. Where now that almost feels like a staple of prestige reality TV. That's what the Traders wants.

Right. I think that this was maybe like the beginning of the point where Lin Spillman was going to ultimately not be in charge of casting anymore. Where that I had always, you know, thought that Lynn was looking for the next Omarosa, the Johnny Fair play, that somebody who is just maybe in some ways and now we know layered but on television a little bit more of a character in and maybe a little bit one note of a character and I think that that is ultimately the direction the show wants to go,

that they really do not want Survivor to be filled by these types of like big personalities that might be a little bit more veering on the negative. But I think that Neonca was a great example of like the home run casting that Lynn was trying to do. But don't you find it funny in looking at the success of the Traders and how much the breakout moments of the Traders, for instance, this huge blow up between Boston Robb and Bob the Drag Queen this season, like the great moments of the current ilk of reality television are predicated on the very thing it seems

like the new era is trying to avoid. Conflict? Yeah. Yeah. Listen, Evan, you're preaching to the choir that I like to see conflict on my reality television. It's, I am not drawn to Survivor to see growth. Like, I like to watch reality TV. I do like the exciting strategy. And I think that like the moment with like

when somebody has to put aside their personal feelings about a person to make a game move, like I think does generate that internal conflict as well, which I think is also interesting to watch. And so I don't necessarily love the Kumbaya survivor either. Well, it's also interesting when you talk about, I mean, obviously 48 was an abysmal season for so many reasons, but the two sticking points for me really are the, a little bit of contention that happened between Say and Mary, which was a little underbaked,

but there was something there that was, you know, a little bit of conflict. And then that moment between David and Kyle, which, and David and Joe as well, which kind of, again, almost reached a boil, but just never quite got there. But so I think the, it's funny that the moments that you remember so often on these seasons are conflict.

Obviously, Susan Hawke, season one, the most obvious example, but even thinking about Alicia Calloway in Australia, you know what I mean? And so it's like those really, those moments not only resonate, but they stay in the brain in a way that two people loving each other

outside of Stephen Fishback and JT, I don't think it stays top of mind. Yeah. Okay. All right. Who's next? Reed Kelly, friend of Drop Your Buffs, hopefully friend of mine. Why haven't you had him on? I don't know. I'm trying to think of when the last time we talked, does he keep up with the show? Yeah, he does. And he's a great guest. Boy can he talk. Yes. He was my winner pick in Survivor Sam Wendell's Serenade. Really? Yeah. And his final Tribal Council speech has become so celebrated.

It has. And I think it's up there. Like you're seeing, you know, this is something I really value personally is the final Tribal Council speech. Sadly, no longer a staple of the show. But I think that ones like his and Helen Glover's and

Sue Hawks, even Brenda Lowe's, dare we mention it, I think are are what make finales sort of bearable for me. Like I feel like survivor finales are not my favorite part of a season. I find there a little bit of a slog to get through, um, and particularly

final tribal councils, sometimes I lose interest a little bit. Um, and I think what kept my interest in the old days was the speeches and the, what are they going to say? Another one, great one is Trish Hagerty, right? And Kaga-Ann. Was it worth it? Which recently I was told that that was reshot.

Have you ever heard that? I only heard it when, when you had heard it from on social media recently. Yeah. Interesting. You'll have to get to the bottom of that in an upcoming interview. We're going to because we're going to be speaking to Cass next week. So that's question number one. But all that to say, I feel like he brought that and anybody who can bring that is worthy

of something and usually is making good TV. Like I always picture for those final tribal speeches, like I picture Sue Hawk with ink all down her arm, like crumpled up pieces of paper on the floor next to her, like revision after revision, memorizing these. Reed tells us that he didn't write a speech. Oh, he was just off book for that? Yeah, he said he had been thinking a lot about it, and it just came out that way.

Again, reliable narrator, I don't know, but I love the idea of it. Yeah, I think I feel for Reed and Josh as players in the game in San Juan del Sur, where I think that both of them ended up being sort of like locked in with not necessarily like the greatest survivor minds of their time where they're sort of like trying to make it work with the late great Keith nail and Wes and John rocker and

You know John and Jacqueline and You know, it's it's not going great like they don't necessarily have the numb and they're going up against You know some really like elite survivors in like Natalie Anderson and Jeremy like I think Kelly Wentworth was gone by that point. But yeah, it's not... Reed is trying to get this group to all go one way and Keith Nail ends up spilling the beans with Stick to the Plan. Yeah.

Eddie, he had that sneaky like idol clue that he had taken the idol clue from somebody's bag. Keith's. Yeah, Keith's bag. Like, he was willing to get dirty. He was willing to play. Like, that's where I see the glimmers of, like, he can get in the new era. He can play with a beware advantage. He can do all, you know, use all these trinkets that they're throwing at them.

I feel like he could be pretty malleable in that way also in terms of his relationships. Like we saw like, oh, he's, he's going after John. No, now he's trying to get to work with John. Like, I feel like that was a little bit ahead of its time. Um, so I think he's got the strategy. He's certainly got the personality. And I think that. The body.

And he's got the body. And. Still maybe in better shape. Oh, oh, yeah. Rob. He's at the gym right now. Right now. And posting a selfie. Yeah. Yeah. If the body was 10 out of 10 in San Juan del Sur, it's 12 out of 10 now. Yeah. It's wild. Could not hurt the ratings. No, couldn't hurt the ratings. And I think that Reed has this like,

he's got this quality to him that's so, he's so charismatic on television. But I also think that anybody coming from a blood versus water season has a built-in story. And I mean, Reed and Josh are no longer together. Reed has a new husband. Like that is a built-in story. I think anybody who had played with a loved one before, whether they're playing with a loved one again or not, has a compelling

story to tell. Yeah. I also just think that not that all people are archetypes, but I think that we do not get the kind of gay male representation that is read on Survivor very often. I think we tend to get more saccharine depictions of LGBTQ plus people, which totally exists. It's not a knock at them whatsoever, but I kind of just like the hot, sassy, gay bitch. Um, I've got a lot of them in my life. I was going to say I've been called one, but I can't say I've been called hot,

but I've been called a sassy bitch. than in my life. I was gonna say I've been called one, but I can't say I've been called a sassy binge. But it's an archetype that I think is true to life and I think it makes great television. And yeah, more Reed, please. Yeah. I wasn't thinking Reed for Survivor 50. You make a great case. B plus for Reed Kelly. That could have been an A. Okay. Kelly Kim. Kelly Kim. I think, we talked a little bit about Survivor 39

when you were on Drop Your Buffs. And I think that to restate, I think that Survivor 39, they keep trying to erase it from our memory. And for many good reasons. But as much as... I think for like one good reason. Yeah. What's the many? Well, you know, we don't need to get into the details, but you know, there's like

two incidents that are... Okay, so two good reasons. Excuse me, two good reasons. And also just the Island of the Idols and the statues, probably another good reason. But I would say... Three. So many. Several. Island of the Idols and the statues probably another good reason. But I would say, so many, several. I would say that as much as there is to dislike about 39, there's more to like, right? We can recognize the good and the bad at the same time. And I think Kelly Kim was a great character, played a great game. Nobody else has hidden an idol in their hair that I'm aware of.

And then to like play that and like play that for Dean, but vote for Dean. Like there was good moves and interesting stuff that Kelly was doing. And then unfortunately what happened to her really tanked her game in a way that felt very unfair. And I think that the show went out of its way to kind of apologize to her and give her that platform at the finale. And what that felt to me, it felt like they were saying, we're going to make up for this. You'll have another chance. And at the time I thought, okay,

the next returning season that comes up that she would be eligible for, so not winners at war, she's got a guaranteed spot, surely. Even if it's not a returning season, like it felt like 41, she'll have a spot. But then sort of winners at war happens and COVID happens and there's this break and this sort of like lapse in memory, I think, where they go, okay, this is our chance

to sort of like wash our hands of this and pretend it never happened or didn't exist. And so I think her second chance slipped through the cracks. And I think that she is owed a second chance. Does she want a second chance? I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I think if she wants it, she should get it. Yeah. If she does want it, yeah, I think that that would be great to see her get it.

I also understand why the show is like, well, then we'd have to remind people of why she's back. I felt like that, and I was there that day in person when they had the 39 finale, the last live finale that they've done, hopefully 50 will be the next one. When they were apologizing, I felt like that they were more saying that they were going to make changes more so than they were going to have her as a returnee to come back and play. But she did a lot in the game early on. She was actually one of the players to watch at the point that she did go out of the game. Yeah. And I think that's such a shame.

That, and I also think it's notable the lack of Asian representation on season 50, which is something a lot of people are clocking. So I think that also puts her in contention. I don't think that she's necessarily like the of our list. She's the least loud and obvious, certainly. certainly, but I'm with Sean in a similar camp to Vespia in feeling like if not 50, I think a potential themed season is sort of like Odadette kind of season. I, you know, wouldn't be framed as such so explicitly, but there's just a lineage of people who, whether by ex, is it extra, extraneous, extra temper,

what's the word I'm thinking of? Extraneous, can I talk about'm talking about? Extraneous circumstances. Yes, that's it. Yeah, I think that's good. Okay. I don't know why I thought there was a P. Thank you. Oh, we got a thing. Whether by extraneous circumstances or what have you that they're, you know, Neon could be another example like this. The weather happened, she quit.

So I think that if not 50, I would like to put Kelly in the running for a returning players season. Mm-hmm. Could there be some way to commemorate some of these folks that we're talking about that may not necessarily be, like, where they're playing Survivor again? Because it's such a... Like, we're excited that we get to, you know, bring back these players to celebrate them,

but the celebration is short-lived because for many of them that Survivor 50 will not go well and in some in many ways that survivor 50 will actually turn out to be like a humbling experience for a lot of these people and then if it doesn't go well that people will say oh see they kind of they What they sucked they didn't why they, what did they sucked? They didn't, why did they even bring them back? It's almost like that it's a, for some, it will be, you know, an incredible thing. And maybe this comes full circle with my own personal story with it, where, you know, it's, it's very nice to get the call and it's certainly exciting to go back, but it could not go well for people. And then it ends up worse than you started.

Well, Rob, this is interesting because don't you recall a promise that there would be a year long celebration leading up to survivor 50 hasn't started yet. Still waiting for the party to kick off. Maybe it'll start at star 49. Maybe, maybe so. But I think that there's some opportunity that I don't think the host or the network would ever be buying into,

to do some kind of documentary series, some kind of look back that is significant and tracks down these people and gets them to talk, either to camera or to each other in a way that feels significant and a way that feels worthy of celebrating 50 seasons of the show 25 years on TV. That's where we come in. Well, yeah, but like we need the production value. Oh, yeah, that's true. Like what Vice did about Survivor,

was it just Borneo I think they talked about? Like what they did, but punched up a little bit and sort of spanning the entire history of the show. Like that's my dream. It's never gonna happen, but that would be my dream. I am really interested in the concept of legacy management. In general, it's something I think a lot about. I'm a big Janet Jackson fan,

and I feel like she's done a horrible job at legacy management. But I look at someone like Cher or Martha Stewart as being great examples of legacy management, but I look at someone like Cher or Martha Stewart as being great examples of legacy management. I would also point to SNL 50 as the best one-to-one with Survivor of what a terrific job they did in not only the lead up to the 50th season, but in bringing in all of these alumni, not only having them on the red carpet doing interviews, also having them do new, fresh sketches.

And then on top of that, bringing in people like Meryl Streep to come and do sketches. As you well know, Survivor has a huge amount of celebrity super fans, some known, some not known. I was just at a meeting yesterday with SNL and they were talking to me about some guests that they've had on the show that are huge Survivor fans. And I was like, holy F, because if I'm taking an SNL meeting,

I'm going to talk about Survivor. This just to say that I think there needs to be a lot of thoughtfulness to your point about not just those who are on 50, but those who we want to keep in the Survivor verse. Because the other thing I think is worth mentioning, you don't want disgruntled alumni out there shit-talking the show, the network, the host,

which has now happened. And once that door opens, it is a floodgate, you know? And so I think it would make a lot of these alumni feel, it would curry favor with them, I think, to feel as though, okay, I didn't make 50, but I know the show cares about me, once in the ether. Yeah.

And so I think that it's something, legacy management takes a lot of planning, it takes a lot of thoughtfulness, and I think it's as simple as, we hear about the call going out when 50 was first coming and just getting a sense of, you know, who's interested, who's available. But I think in general, that call should be happening more than just around returning player seasons and should be happening around anniversaries

and events and big survivor charity functions, what have you. I think we need better legacy management. Yeah, that's a good point about the SNL 50 because you'd imagine if they were like, we're putting together this amazing like tune into SNL 50 where you can see and it was just like the current cast. I watch that every week. Yeah, that's SNL. Right. Yeah. I don't need to want to special to see Jason Dismukes. Right. With all due respect. Right. But also I think you might be able to get someone like a Colleen Haskell to trot out for a season 50 retrospective one night only and have a five minute chat with her that might be even better than her returning player season in terms of the content you would get. I think it'd be such a great way to talk to the also you keep talking

about this age thing of people that might not be able to play again, but certainly they'd be able to come out for the Survivor 50 special and talk for a few minutes. And also think about all of the bonus ancillary social content you could build from that, the selfies, the red carpet opportunity. Rob, have you thought about doing something like this? I just, I'm not sure sure if I mean, look, maybe could maybe we could

put our heads together on something like this. I think there's something here. OK, there's something here for sure. That's where we get Helen Glover. Look, if Helen Glover, 70 year old, can't come out to the island of Fiji. Surely we can give her a pair of crutches and she can come out on the stage. Here's what I would say. Like, Rudy should not have played on Survivor All-Stars.

They should have found some way to use Rudy rather than bring 76-year-old Rudy out to the Survivor All-Stars. It didn't go great. He had gout in his feet. He could barely walk. They had to ultimately just vote him out. And it was like a mercy to take Rudy out of the game You hate to see that for some of these people who maybe aren't able to do it physically

But it would be great like you get an interview with Rudy's like, you know If I was out there, I'd be kicking every single one of their asses and people like yeah. Yeah Rudy That would be great. You're having like like run a challenge or challenge or you know, like a Navy SEALs sort of like course. Like, there, I think there's ways to incorporate the history. I think, I don't know if Big Brother US does this. I know Big Brother UK has done this on sort of milestone seasons. They brought back alumni to sort of like participate in certain challenges or gags that the show does. I think there's opportunities there for 50 to just have them out. Much like I don't want Cochrane on a boat, but much like Cochrane on the boat, we could have Kathy Vavikro, Brian on the boat.

Hey! Or like we had Parvati and Kate on this last season of The Traitors just come in and sort of administer a challenge. That's certainly an option for sure. But even thinking about like the reaction from the alumni community around Jane Bright's death and hearing what an impact she had after her time on the show, unless you're a super fan like us, you don't know that.

You know what I mean? And I think that something like this is an opportunity to celebrate people like Jane that have not only impact on the show, but are impactful in the community But something like this is an opportunity to celebrate people like Jane that are have not only impact on the show, but are impactful in the community and give them their due. Jerry Manthe, great opportunity to give her her flowers and have her feel the love because I spoke to Jerry last night and she talked about how heartened she was that, you know, despite the fact that she's pissed, she is Liz pissed, she is heartened in hearing from

our Hap fans, Drop Your Buff fans, just general fans that are making her feel the love. I think an event like this would be a great way to celebrate not just the Jerry, but the Jerrys, of which there are many. Vesepia, a name that we mentioned earlier in this pod. It would be so, not only fun for us as fans, I think it would be really meaningful to the alumni, both the disgruntled ones and the ones that don't even know that they have this super fandom. Kathy Vavric O'Brien is an example of someone

who I don't think realizes that there are Sean and Evans out here ready to fuck it, excuse me, ready to bow down. Okay. Well, it's an incredible idea. I hope that we could do something with it. Sean, Evan, thank you both so much for going through all this with me. Where could people hear more from you?

Well, they can find us on Instagram at dropyourbuffspod. That's where we really pop off, but we are also on sub stack. That's where we do our exclusive episodes. On the off seasons, we always do a rewatch. And I believe we've committed to a Thailand rewatch this off season. Yeah. So good timing for Helen Glover fans to join the Substack. We're also going to be doing our Season 50 cast assessment later today, exclusively on SubstSac.

We have to put that one behind the paywall because it's too hot for TV. Too spicy. Yeah, but otherwise you can find Drop Your Buffs anywhere you get your podcasts. Yeah. And also, because we'll be watching Thailand, it means we will be memeing Thailand as well. And it's particularly fun getting to meme these older seasons because, you know, there's a lot of deep cut moments that aren't in the canon,

but upon a rewatch, you're kind of like, oh wait, that's extremely funny when extracted in meme form. And then I lastly wanna plug, we will be covering season three of And Just Like That, premiering tonight. We will be doing episodic recapping. We do White Lotus, we do And Just Like That, we do The Traitors, so we're not just a survivor podcast, doing episodic recapping. We do White Lotus. We do And Just Like That. We do the Traders.

So we're not just a survivor podcast. Perhaps reluctantly from one of our co-hosts, we will be recapping And Just Like That Season 3, which let me tell you, I've watched the first two episodes. It kicks off with a bang. Okay. It's good. You're not ironically watching. I'm not hate watching. I'm not hate watching. Cause I listened to when you had Kendra on and then you made a very, the very elaborate analogy of what it was like for, I believe that, was it Charlotte knew about Carrie's secret?

No, it was about the marriage. But so Rob, are you a Drop Your Buffs listener? I don't listen to every single episode, but when I see it in my feeds, I feel like that you both have interesting things to say. So I am curious to know your takes. Wow. Wow. Honored. So yeah, that's what that's what we've got going on.

Sean has some news that's relevant to Survivor, but he won't yet tell our audience. And so we're all we're kind of on pins and needles waiting. Sean is going to Survivor, but he won't yet tell our audience. And so we're all, we're kind of on pins and needles waiting. Sean is going to Survivor 51? I'm on Survivor 49. I'm Riz God. Oh, Ross God. But so Sean's got that in the ether.

And then I'm going to be shooting a movie this summer, which I haven't said too much about, but that's going to be some exciting ones. I can say more about that. So that's what's going on in the drop your box. Wow. What a, what a, yeah. And by the way, I'm also shooting a movie. Shooting a movie. It's a big movie. Wait till you find out my co-star. Okay. Academy award winner.

This is incredible. Okay. All right. Well, Sean? You know me. I mean, this is like, I got more podcasts coming your way. We make sure you're, you know, locked in. And then thank you all so much. Looking forward to reading the comments on this one also. Can't wait. Can't wait. Okay. And can I just give a shout out to your,

the cast assessment that you did with Mike Bloom. I have to tell you, I mean, I said this to you when you were on Drop Your Buffs, but just waking up this morning, going to the gym, knowing I had two hours, I'm not, I'm being genuine, two hours were on Drop Your Buffs, but just waking up this morning, going to the gym knowing I had two hours, I'm not, I'm being genuine, two hours of you two in my ears, going over this cast with a little bit of spice,

might I add. It was so, it just made my day, it filled me up. I was so happy to have you. Yeah, okay, thank you so much for that, Evan. Thank you so much for listening. Take care of a good one. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye.