RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Finale Exit Interviews

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Survivor 50 Finale Exit Interviews Today, Rob Cesternino brings you a jam-packed round of exit interviews with the final five players. From Los Angeles, Rob sits down for candid, revealing conversations with winner Aubry Bracco, Jonathan Young, Joe Hunter, Rizo Velovic, and Tiffany Nicole Ervin, capturing the raw emotions and untold stories behind the biggest moves and blindsides of the season. Survivor 50’s aftermath is on full display as players reflect on hard-fought challenges, breakdowns in alliances, and what it really takes to win when the game constantly evolves. Rob opens the special exit interview episode talking with newly crowned winner Aubry Bracco, who shares her journey of coming in as an underdog at the merge and how stepping back allowed her to “see the whole zoo.” Aubry reveals the impact of early setbacks, her fresh perspective in this new era, and the calculated decision to play her idol early—dismantling threats and getting back under the radar. Jonathan Young unpacks the heartbreak of coming so close, the challenges of not being seen as an underdog, and how perception shapes every tribal council. Joe Hunter discusses his surprising positivity after loss, his complicated relationship with Rick Devens, and why trust will always define his Survivor journey. Rizo reflects on being a polarizing superfan who found himself on the bottom—then clawed into the voting bloc that almost changed everything. Tiffany Nicole Ervin offers a behind-the-scenes look at the original Kalo chaos, the hidden strategies lost in the edit, and why social bonds made her a hard name to write down. Key moments from Survivor 50’s finale include: – Aubry Bracco on leveraging fringe status at the merge for a long-term strategic advantage – Jonathan Young discussing why Survivor’s new era rewards underdogs and how he tried to shift his image – Joe Hunter revealing the emotional journey from defeat to gratitude and the lessons learned playing with and against Rick Devens – Rizo detailing the “dead man walking” days and how perception can shape your fate—win or lose – Tiffany Nicole Ervin sharing why Kahlo tribe dynamics shaped the season, and what viewers didn’t see As these finalists recount pivotal moves—idol plays, shifting alliances, fire-making wins, and the fallout from fractured tribes—Rob presses for the answers fans crave. What would have happened if a few challenge results flipped? How did hidden bonds and social gameplay drive votes we never saw coming? Tune in to this Survivor 50 exit interview special for a backstage pass to the emotional highs and tough choices that defined an epic season—plus hints at who might return for another shot at the game! Chapters: 0:00 Survivor 50 Finale Aftermath Begins 0:09 Rob Previews Exit Interviews Lineup 3:46 Aubry Bracco Reflects on Her Win 5:06 Aubry’s Strategy Versus Old Seasons 6:10 Merge Spot Gives Aubry Perspective 8:34 Aubry’s Idol Play and Reputation 10:58 Aubry-Genevieve Rift Explained 12:10 Aubry and Cirie’s Secret Alliance 13:36 Ozzy Blindside – Who Gets Credit 15:34 Aubry Prepped for Endgame Challenges 17:10 Aubry on Returning to Survivor 18:28 Jonathan Young Processes Runner-Up Finish 22:19 Jonathan on Survivor’s Modern Underdog 28:28 Jonathan Asks Rob for Survivor Advice 30:23 Joe Hunter Embraces Survivor Positivity 36:58 Joe and Rizo’s Hidden Alliance 45:10 Rizo Recaps Survivor 50 Emotions To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

everybody, what's going on? Rob Sesterino on the road here. I'm still in Los Angeles where last night I went to the Survivor 50, a big finale. What a night. What a night. Still a great night and have so much to talk about in the aftermath of the finale and Survivor 50. If you missed it last night, I did do red carpet interviews both before and after the finale. We posted my interviews from after the finale. I got to talk to Aubrey, Joe, Rizzo, and Tiffany on the red carpet. Plus, I also talked with Charlie and Camilla real quick. Winners of the Mike White Prize. That video and podcast is already out. Then also, last night, Sam Fallon and Owen Knight were in the know-it-all spot. They broke down the whole two-hour plus finale and everything that came out of it, all the finale reactions.

I'm about a third of the way through that podcast as a listener, but that's also out. Today, what you're going to hear is that we did normal exit interviews also this morning. So I'm recording this after the fact, but I had, I thought really great conversations. Everybody was really lucid and in varying degrees of excitement. or down. I really tried to meet everybody where they were. And so you're going to hear today my conversation with Aubrey once again. I finally got the chance to talk to Jonathan.

And I think that's a really interesting interview. Plus, I continued my conversations with Joe and Rizzo and Tiffany from last night. So I thought that that was a really interesting way to do it. And it wasn't exactly what I anticipated, but I really felt like I wanted to try to use this extended time today after getting to talk to them last night. Last night for me was about the immediate aftermath of the finale. And so we had the opportunity today to go back and talk about some of the parts of the game that were from the earlier parts of the season, things that we didn't get to see in as clear of focus.

And so I think that these are going to be a little bit more interesting than the interviews that I did even last night because everybody was able to really be a little bit more introspective as we're starting to look back at the season. And so in case you listen to those red carpet interviews, like, wait, why do I have to listen to it again? I do think that there's a lot of new ground that we covered here today on these exit interviews. Plus, I am still working towards getting together with Stephen,

who is also traveling. And at some point, we will get into doing a proper recap of both the finale and maybe looking back at the season, I am here in Los Angeles through today. I'm going to be going to do a book signing with Dr. Christian Hubicki here in Los Angeles. And so I'm going to be headed home on Friday where I will do the patron Q&A coming up on Friday.

So that's just what's coming up here over the next couple of days. But let's get into the exit interviews. And I'm very excited to bring you my latest interview with the winner of Survivor 50. Here is Aubrey Brockow. All right, we are back together. It was, I don't even know, maybe it was 10 hours ago that I last spoke to this person. I don't know if she's gone to bed.

Here she is. The winner of Survivor 50, she can't get used to me saying that enough. It's Aubrey Brockow. Aubrey, how are you today? I'm wonderful, Rob. Thank you. It's good to see you again. Long time, no see.

Good to see you again. And again, this is under such happy circumstances. and I was telling you last night and that people should go out and watch that interview. We're not going to revisit all of that, but I'm just so happy for you and for your win. Given the last 12 hours, have you had any other time to put this in context for you? Oh, Rob, I thought about this for so long. And I'm just grateful. I'm processing it.

I'm trying to soak in the love. I'm just trying to like be in the moment, which I'm not the best at. it's just such a beautiful capstone to 10 years. And I know so many people would love the chance to rewrite their survivor story. I thought it was over after Edge of Extinction. I came to terms with it. I removed myself in the survivor community. What a way to go out.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of thinking and consternation about your win and what does it mean. But you're no stranger to this because that's what it was when you lost. And people thought about it and thought about what it meant. But for you, could you tell. Tell us, in your own words, that how do you feel like that your game here is different than the game you played when you started as a Survivor baby 10 years ago? Well, you know what, Rob? I mean, I was really proud of my game in Co-Rong.

And today, I'm really proud of myself. And I'm proud of myself because I didn't necessarily go into Survivor 50 playing the game that I thought I would play. But I played the game that I needed to play based on what I was seeing. in the moment. And it was more about my ability to see everything happening and to feel everything from all the different perspectives in front of me and be able to have the emotional regulation and groundedness to pivot and shift to play the game and meet Survivor 50 where it was. I know that's like a nuanced answer, but I went in thinking that Survivor is about this, this, this. And this time I went in totally open-minded and I had the skills to adjust.

I would expect nothing less than a nuanced answer from you. I'm wondering as I'm hearing you say that, I'm wondering if maybe coming in in the position you did at the merge, I'm sure it was hard to be at the bottom. But did that give you like a better view of everything that was happening? Yeah. Thank you for. Yes, I thought about that a lot.

I came in with no social equity at the merge. I had a really hard beginning of the game. I got off on the wrong foot. The beauty of that is I was almost able to start over and start building those relationships, but it gave me that distance where I would get close enough to people that they would keep me in, but not so close to them that I couldn't pivot. And I felt like I was kind of standing back, watching the whole game, like the zoo exhibit and all these amazing animals. And I'm like, I'm in the zoo exhibit. But it really did. Like, it's so funny. My survivor application says,

how would you win the game from 2014? And I said I would play on the fringes so I could see everything going on. And I remember at the time Lynn Spillman was like, that's not a way to win Survivor. And I was like, you're wrong, Lynn. It is now. I like to see. Yeah. That, you know, it's so interesting that you, there was so much talk about, well, Jonathan is a new era player, but he's playing like old school. And I thought that you really owned last night that, like, hey, I'm an old school player, but I'm playing more in the new era. Do you feel like that the game came around more to meet you where you were. I know you changed a lot too, but did the way the game is now also help your play style? I think the way the game is now help my play style. I do think in ways like,

Co-Rong had moments that were like new era coded in a way. When I look back at it, I'm like, oh yeah, like it was totally normal there to take out Debbie. Everyone said she's in your alliance. Why would you? But it would be so acceptable in the new era. And so like it just was like this perfect meeting like right time, right place. I let it come to me. I'd step to it when I needed too. I felt like I was dancing with the meta of Survivor in a big way. I thought about the meta game so much. It's a thing. Okay. Well, listen, I'd love to hear it and I would love to talk more about it. Even after this. But, you know, I owe you an apology on probably a bunch of things that I got wrong about your game. But let me talk about the idol. Because I said, you know, Aubrey,

why are you playing an idol right now? You could say to people, hey, listen, you want Rick Devin's Devin's to get an idol, even though it was really from Christian. But you in the moment, you seem to know, said, this idol, you know, is a scarlet letter. And you reference that again. And I really felt like that that was so true. And I don't even know if you realized in the moment of how much it was going to help you get back under the radar. But it really, really did help you to not have that idol. You were not on the top of mind for people. Yeah, absolutely. I listened to a conversation you had, Rob, about the news cycle and how impactful that was in sort of 550. And it was with 24 people. And I know social equity, like I said, coming into the merge.

And if I had not burned that thing, I mean, did I want to play it? Hell no. Did I need to play it? Absolutely. Those people wanted that gone. And the second I did, like, it would have been nice to play at the next one when Devin's and I had our heads on the chopping block. But they would have felt clowned by me over and over again.

And I didn't have those relationships. People needed to see that I would do what I said. I felt like at the final tribal council, I'll read that. People were trying to, there was like, there was an attack being thrown at you of like, but did you keep any secrets? And I don't know if it really stuck that. What were people trying to say about you?

Yeah, it's so interesting. I felt confused by that in the moment. And I watched it when I watched back. I said, are you kidding me? Rick? Look at Emily. No way. And I was actually talking to Rizzo.

And he, I believe I'm not sure I would need to get people to confirm because this was just told to me this morning was that it may have been that people thought I gave that idol to Rizzo on Nucalo and didn't believe that Genevieve had. And I always just was like, it was definitely her. It wasn't me. So it may have stemmed around that. It may have been something about that because I didn't understand in the moment. Yes, I did share information. It was playing the middle. But I didn't think I was talking more than other people. You said last night that you were sick at the start of the game. Can you talk a little bit about what you were dealing with? Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to make excuses. I was like deathly ill with some upper respiratory

thing. I think Mike White was really sick at the beginning of the game. I got something from somebody on that plane. I was hacking my guts out on the barge. And I just didn't want anybody to know. So I was definitely like feeling it at the beginning of the game. That compounded with yeah, what a rough start. We all saw it. You know, during the season, there was a lot of talk about you and Genevieve and that the awkward interaction. But I'd love to hear from your perspective of what, was going on there. I really do feel like that now that we've watched this game as a whole play out, like I really feel like that there was maybe too much similarity there and maybe that there wasn't room for both of you to exist. Yeah, it's interesting. Oh my gosh, there's so much to say,

but I did have conversations with Genevieve where she said that the island wasn't big enough for her and Surrey. I remember having those conversations. They're like, oh, my gosh. In my mind, Genevieve's name got, I said she was dangerous in conversations where people said Angelina was chaotic and Rizzo was lazy. I thought I was just having conversations. I also initiated that conversation where everyone felt I shut her out to try to work with her to say, can we have like a business meeting about this? Because it doesn't feel personally good. Clearly I did not give her what she needed that moment. But I kept talking to her Rob. I kept trying to talk game with her because I know currency, it's currency for her. And she also

is very talented. She owns the narrative and so. framing of the tribe she's in 100%. She'd tell me she was working with me, but damn, I did not feel that way. There was a disconnect. It was bad. And when Tiffany told me it was bad, I was like, I was upset. I just laid low after that. And the last thing I'll say about that is at the merge, I approached Genevieve and said, hey, we've had a rough time. Can we work together? There are bigger fish to fry. And the night she went home, I said, Genevieve, can we talk? And she said, I'm not talking to you. So I felt I did my due diligence trying to talk to her. I'd love to hear. I'd love to hear. about your relationship with Surrey, which coming out of game changers, we knew that you had a good

relationship. And I saw her eyes light up when Rick and Christian told her that they gave you the idol. But then in the middle of the game, I feel like we didn't see outside of like right at the merge too much conversation between you and Surrey. Was there a lot more in that relationship? Because when she voted for you, she said, Aubrey, I love you. And it seemed like that that was a very warm relationship, but we just didn't see a lot of it on the show. Yeah, it is, it's such a warm relationship. I mean, I went into 50 saying to myself, I will work with Surrey as long as I have to,

but then she has to go. At the merge, she had heard that I called her a mastermind because I was trying to like at the beginning. Oh, I hate that. You've worked with before. And she's like, I understand, but she said we can work together, but we like can't talk to each other. And Serri and I have, I know how she moves.

She knows how I move. I would be like, hey, so read this, see, that. Like, we weren't coming for each other. So we had that relationship, but we already had solidified. She had solidified alliances. So we worked with each other as much as we could. But it was like a very under the radar.

Like I can like wink at Surrey. And I'm like, all right, we're good. We're good. So it was a very almost like a telepathic relationship. But we both knew we couldn't sit next to each other. Yeah. And she seemed really happy for you last night. I think she was really happy that you ended up getting the win.

I want to talk about that there was a lot about the Ozzy vote in the final. tribal council where it was a little bit of a tug of war between you and Jonathan of who was trying to claim ownership of that move. And I think that Jonathan felt like, hey, this was my big move to take out Ozzy. But I think that part of the nature of the power broker thing that was going on was that he would come in and then he would leave. And then it was really you who was there that whole time. Yeah, it's super interesting. I don't think there were a lot of unilateral moves in Survivor 50. I think we'll be turning this over for seasons. to come. I think people played very specific roles, like in different votes. And I think everyone

always knew Aussie had to go. Like, yes, you brought up his name, but a lot of people have brought up his name. So I felt like I articulated the very particular role I had in that. I will not say that I got Ozzy out all on my own, but I definitely think that I played my part that day. Yeah. I want to hear about Tiffany and the relationship you had with her because it really did. It started it off in the episode where then she tells you about that Genevieve is saying your name and she gives like a big moving speech and she says, I'm not going to let Aubrey Brocko go. I love Aubrey Brocko. But then over the course of the middle of the game, again, we didn't see too much of you and Tiffany. How close were you over the course of the game? Tiffany and I had an amazing working relationship.

She definitely like found her people and wanted that alliance thing. I know. See, I was a loof like very strategically, Rob. I never wanted to get too close to people. Like on original VATU, Angelina was going around. She's saying she was my number one. I was like, hell no, that almost happened to me on game changers with Sierra Easton. I do not want to commit. I really intentionally did that. So I had a working relationship with Tiffany. And I said the first time when she was my survivor angel, I take her as far as I could go. And I hope she'd do the same. And she did. And she had my back at the end. And she is a ride or die person. And I love Tiffany. I want to talk about your win at the final four where you ended up winning some motion and you told us that you actually bought a home game

of some motion and to me that that feels different than somebody uh practicing on the actual puzzle but it's so cool that you had the foresight to to do that um i'm curious to know how much other prep did you do oh my gosh i did i prepped for puzzles rob i did some motion the other prep is like I took myself out of Survivor for seven years. When I knew that I could be playing, Rob, I listened to so much of you over the past year. So much prep for you. Also, like this is the other prep I did is there's a podcast for the Bachelor

Bachelorette called Game of Roses. I know of it, yes. And they talk about audiences and I'm a marketer. And I said to myself, you're going to go out there and you're going to win this game. And the way you're going to win this game is to remember that the only audience that matters if you're going to win are the other players. And I said to myself, I'm not worried about maybe in the best TV.

And I'm not worried about like the production side, the audience of the players. So that and there's a guy who's named Nick Metzler, doodles from Gotta Get Out, that show where they're all stuck in the mansion and have to escape, who talked about like when you make moves at different points in the game.

I like randomly studied stuff he said and that helped too. I studied everything. I just took it all in. After time away to take it all in, you come back with a different perspective. That's incredible. I did not know so much of that. So really cool to say that.

Now, will you say now whether or not is, is, would you ever play Survivor again? Oh my gosh. It's so fun. I got asked earlier. I got emotional thinking that I would never play again. Because it's like it's the addiction of like being in the moment. I think it's time for other people to play. Rob, come on.

I just said, where can you go from here? Yeah. I mean, Cochran is doing. Cochran, you are doing something. right, my dear. You know when to stop. And I think I should take a cue for my good friend, John. I mean, I think you two have always been attached in Survivor history. And I think that that's something that he's always said. Like, how do you get better than this? How do you top this? He knows. John, you know when to say no and I love you for it.

Aubrey, do you have any big plans yet for the $2 million? Rob, I need some help. I got to figure I'm going to do for Rick Devons. That's number one. And then the rest of it's getting put away. but it got to do something fun with Rick, man. All right. Well, you're doing great so far today. I know you have a super long day of talking about this, but this, look, this is the fun one. You've done this four times and you're going to have the most fun today of any of these postseason days. It's been so fun.

It's even more fun that I took time away from Survivor and I'm back. Yeah. Well, it's so nice to have you back. Thanks, Rob. Thank you for everything. All right. Thanks, Aubrey. Bye.

Talk to you, no, bye. All right, we are here with Jonathan Young, who came off of, Jonathan, I really thought that you played a really, really strong game in Survivor 50. And I'm looking forward to getting to talk more about it. And I want to give you some flowers also because, you know, I really feel like that nobody put more into preparing to go and do this than you did. And you took a game in Survivor 42 and you added to it. And I think that it was really incredible. You know, I'm watching these videos of you doing puzzles and walking across these balance beams. And I know how hard you worked to try to take this all the way home.

And so I just want to say that I do recognize all the effort that you put in into Survivor 50. Thank you. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't think about Survivor for four years. That's true. I didn't think I thought about it every day. Yeah. And I think that sometimes it's hard for. for me in particular to watch you as a player because you feel like you're so different than me.

But I think that the one thing that I feel like that I can relate to in terms of how you approach it is like what can I keep doing better to try to win this thing? And so I just want to say that I'm really impressed by that from you. Thank you. I got to rewatch this a few times to figure out where to zig when I should have zag. But I'll figure it out. Plenty of time for that. But I just want to know from you, how are you doing?

today after the finale. Oh, dude, I'm hurt. I feel like I played a great game. I know I did. And I'm honestly, I've been contemplating and going back and forth on where I went wrong. But there, like you said,

there's plenty of time for that. I just don't know yet. Yeah. But I'll figure it out. Yeah. But I just, you know, I hope that,

and I know this is really hard to have worked this hard to come back and to come up short, but I think that you don't have to look any further than Aubrey to think about the journey that she's been on and over 10 years to get back to this point. And, you know, it's hard for the person who doesn't end up getting those jury votes, but I just don't think that you have anything

to be ashamed of. Yeah, Aubrey told me, she's like, you know, this game I played like Michelle and you played like me out of her mouth from, I think it was Kagyan. Is that right? Oh, wrong. Co-wrong.

I swear they played. And she said that to me. she said she switched her game like Michelle and then I played like she did and that was an honor. So I just got to go watch that a few times, I guess, and figure out more about that. Yeah. Could you tell us a little bit about the final tribal council because I think that you probably felt pretty good coming in. Were you surprised at how any of the questions were coming your way from the jury? No, here's the truth.

I knew that when the ball dropped, I knew that the jury was going to be bitter and a sense and that once the ball dropped out of my hand of Joe's hand, that it was in the hands of Aubrey, at least the win. That's what I knew that because I knew who I had to sit next to. I wasn't oblivious at any point in the game except the Charlie bowed out. But I got my, I got my vengeance on that one. But I knew exactly what was going to happen. I'm going to told you who was going to vote for me too. Yeah. I did feel like that you had like really strong support from the people that you worked with in the game. And then a lot of the swing voters in that jury felt like that they had more of the connection to Aubrey,

who has this incredible body of work that you even mentioned in the episode of, like, what a great story that she has. Thinking back is, is there anything that you could have said that you think could have persuaded any other votes or was everybody locked in? No, there was nothing I could have said at Final Tribal that would have got any of them to vote for me because it was already locked down. I mean, you have five years, five seasons of watching Miss Aubrey.

And I think that's what happened was that piled up. Instead of it being more of what happened this season, you have an underdog story of Aubrey. And those past seasons combined with this season, I can't compete with. And that's just, and should it be combined with this season? That's up to you and the fans to decide. It's not up for me to decide.

Yeah. I think what's hard for you is that Survivor really in the new era, really it's an underdog story that often is rewarded. And I think it's just always good. I got something to say to you about that because I was thinking about this yesterday. You said something about Joe and Devons that stuck out to me. And I agree with you. And it was the tide has changed on the hero thing.

Like you have people like Joe who would have been the hero like Colby back in the day. But Devons, because he flips the coin, he does the things, he's the underdog. and the new era is about the underdog and about who is perceived to be the underdog, not as much who is actually the underdog. Yeah. And that's a huge thing in Survivor right now as who's perceived to be an underdog.

Yeah. And I think in the case of Rick in particular, what I'm saying is that whoever's like stopping at nothing and turning over every single rock in order to try to maximize the win, going for it as much as possible and never giving up, I do think that that's what the show really highlights as the hero. I think it's just hard for you.

to ever be seen as the underdog in like like like there's so much that you can do to change your game and try to do better but it's a game that's built on hey uh that's you know this is the for the little guy for the little girl to like who's come up in the end uh like you saw with marianne and the journey that she had in survivor 42 and uh it's it's it's really tricky for you and uh you know i'm sure you'll give it a lot of thought it's a it's a tricky thing for you you to untangle. Yeah, because I don't, I think you said it best. I don't think I can be looked at as an underdog.

I think that an image is a big deal in Survivor, regardless, because it goes back to primal thinking, like how you look. That's, that's, that does matter. Hey, there's a whole season called David versus Goliath. And everybody who's watching is saying, hey, I'm rooting for the David. It's something that's, you know, built into all of us. And so I just hope that, you know, you don't look at it as much like you did as much wrong. And I really feel like that you should be proud of the effort that you put in.

Thank you. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the way that you were trying. Aubrey called this like disarming a bomb of the order of which you have to take people out at the end of the game. Is there anything where after Ozzy you would have done things differently in terms of trying to get people out in a different order? Well, looking back, I would probably have gone Aubrey, then Tiffany, because I wouldn't have guessed that she would have five balls going for 15 minutes on some motion. I mean, that blew my mind. She had it at home.

She practiced. Yeah. And looking back at that, I would have done Tiffany first. I mean, there's several things. You can't play like that, though, because how am I supposed to know she's got the? replica at home and then the fans vote in for some motion and for fire making it's like

you know what I mean like you can't even you can't fathom to just guess and what's next so what did that mean to you though to be able to come back and at least exercise one demon of that you won the final for fire making oh Mr. I mean even from the

beginning I played my heart out I'm not I'm not I'm very happy that the fire making was one of the things that I conquered. But strategy was another one of those things on my shoulder that bothered me, like about season 42, was there was so many more moves that I could have made. And I had such a,

I was like, well, maybe that's why they didn't show any of my moves on season 42 is because of 50. And maybe God has a plan for me because there's 50. And it's hard to see that maybe me losing $2 million, there's a grand scheme of things. But I'm sure there's a plan that I just don't see yet. There's a movie called. Have you seen the movie signs? Yes, of course.

Em Night Shambla. Yeah. There's like bottles of water. Everything happens for a reason. Yeah. Everything happens for reason. So that's what I think. This will be for something. Yeah. Jonathan, I'm telling you that I have been on this journey for many years of this. And, you know, I recently, I was on the traders. And I don't know, I was spoil it for some people. But it didn't go, it didn't go great, Jonathan. And I really, I thought that that was going to be, I was going to come back to reality. TV and this was I have been away for 20 years and I'm going to come back and this is going to be so great

and it didn't work out that way and I said but I don't understand why did it why did this happen this way I read a great book called the obstacles the way and even if you don't see where it's going now you wrote that book no I did not write that book no I read that book oh my gosh I wrote another book no I read I wrote another book it's it's fine but I read that book and I I can't I can't recommend it enough because I think it, you know. I've read that book. I just have my favorite books, Ryan Holiday. I don't know why I blanked that that was a writer.

Yes, yes. But I think that, listen, that at some point, you'll take meaning from this and it's going to help you get to wherever you need to go. And it may be a survivor win or it may not. But there are, of course, you know, there's so much to take away from this. And I just hope that eventually you really come around and feel good about the game. that you played this season. Yeah, but like asking people like you is how I did better the second time around.

So could I ask you what you saw that really needed help in my game? So I feel like that in ultimately it's the, you know, you have the strength. You have the strategic game. And I think that really it comes down more to, I think, winning over those people on the jury, the hearts and minds of the jurors. I just, I don't know exactly what it is right now. I'm at the top of my head. But the thing, the first thought that comes to my head is like,

how could you make the people on the jury feel like that you're doing it for them, more so that you're doing it for you and that they have so much goodwill towards you. And maybe it's a little bit more of the season 42, Jonathan, of like, I'm here like to try to, you know, make everybody around me, you know, as as safe and help help them on their journey as much as possible. And I know that you are like ultimately like going for the win. But I think that if you were more of the person who made everybody else feel good and comfortable.

And I know that that was part of what you did. That's just the only. I think it's just a matter of just making the jury feel like that your win is their win as opposed to, hey, you're the big guy that we're up against. Yeah. Yeah. sometimes I feel like that is inevitable. And that's where I try to define that line

where I don't want to be the big guy period. Why do you think I wear baggy clothes all the time? I don't want to be looked at as the big guy. I've never looked at myself as the big guy. So like that's something that I try to not even put into the story. Yeah. So I think you're right.

Jonathan, anytime you want to talk more about this, I'd love to, whether it's on or off a podcast. Hope you're doing okay. And I just want to say, again, job well done. And good luck with the rest of the day today. Thank you. You got it, man. Take care.

Bye. Bye. All right, we are back with Joe Hunter. And Joe, it's only been nine, ten hours this last time I talked to you. But I've already gotten a lot of nice feedback about the conversation that we started last night. Oh, great. That's good. Yeah.

That's awesome. That's good here. You got a big web, man. So like a big net, I should say. Yeah. And that means a lot. Hey, and I have to say that you seem the most bright-eyed and bushy-tailed of any of the people that I've talked to.

It seems like you look like you won the game last night. Yeah. I feel like I did, Rob. I really do. Yeah. I feel like I did. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about that of the positivity that you've taken out of this

experience? Because I feel like that it's going back a year where you had, similar fate that I feel like that you didn't necessarily look at it the same way. And did you learn something from that Survivor 48 loss that helps you re-contextualize the Survivor 50 game? You know, Rob, like, honestly, and you helped me do this with some of the things you said on your podcast, because I do peek in and look and I respect people that, you know, have a really good kind of well-rounded view of this is that, listen, on 48, I didn't realize the impact

of Eva and I and what happened. you're under this kind of umbrella of that moment, right? Where like you're almost protected from some of the analytical pieces of either one of our games because we had such an out-of-game experience that was, I feel, by some would say, you know, pretty impactful in the game of Survivor, right? That you couldn't script that. So what it did was I feel it kind of made us both, I'm not saying it in negative way at all. It just, we weren't just free of this kind of the criticism of our game.

because we focused on that. And what it showed me was I got into this game for my sister. And I, after that season, I was so disappointed to myself because it was the only season I knew. And then I got to experience hate. Then I got to experience things like, you know, criticism. And then the good, the bad, the high, the low. And I just, coming into this season and then now what has just happened, I'm at a job. Rob, we're like, I may not come home.

And I mean that. And I'm like, what are we really bitching about? And what changed for me this season is like, I'm just proud of myself, buddy. Like, I know it isn't everybody's cup of tea. And I know I'm not, they can talk all the crap they want, man. But I'm just, I'm truly just me, man. And I'm just settled in that, buddy.

I really am. Hey, that's a really great perspective. And I know we take it so seriously, especially in the podcast world. And we give it probably more meaning than it deserves. but I think it's this right attitude of, hey, this is a game. This is a vacation away from the things that are really hard in life. And so you can't get too wrapped up in, you know, the outcomes of this.

And I think that that's a really great attitude that you have, Joe. Thanks, man. Thank you, Ralph. Yeah. I'd love to hear a little bit more from your perspective. You know, it's such a big story, the back and forth with you and Rick. And, you know, I've tried, like, I've been so interested in this, but I've also tried to also hold these two.

things of you guys are both dads. You guys have a lot more in common that you're both family man. You both have this incredible love for your kids and are like doing it for all the right reasons. But that with all those similarities, you two were just not on the same page. And so I'd love to hear from your perspective a little bit more about some of the things that you found to be maybe a little irritating about the way that Rick was playing the game. Look, obviously, say you this and Rob this is me I'm going to be 100% transparent like I love Rick Devons it's this this isn't meant to be

I mean it and the biggest regret of the game is how I handled that first like not even argument it just got I mean it gained legs and it's like at the end Rick's a great dad a great human being a great husband I have nothing but I cried

when I talked to his family chokes me up thinking about it because it got it has this view now of like Rick was not that wasn't the thing. It's just Rick was one of the best people to play the game, Rob. Like he is outstanding at what he does. And I hadn't played with a player like that.

Yeah. So it's not wrong. Rick should play that way every time. But I also think I should play my way. And I think that we need all of it for Survivor to work. I think what happened is like we're too alike in the moment. We're starving. We're hungry.

And people can't accept that. It's like, yeah, man, you've never fought with your spouse. I hate to say that and it's like, ooh. And then looking back, you're like, I shouldn't have said that because I love you. That's really how I view that. It was like it wasn't that. There's others that was way more tension driven than that was like a, uh, we're never going to live down. And I just want to say that because Rick is brilliant.

And to be honest with you, Rob, the best move in this game is that Rick and I've been able to get over that. We would have shocked the world. No one would have seen that coming. And that's for the future right. I mean it. And I would love to play with Rick. We just couldn't get out of each other's way. I love Rick.

You know, it might be fun to see you two both come back. And then maybe if they listen to this, they'll see it coming. But probably most people wouldn't. But, you know, I really went back and I watched that a bunch in the beginning of the season. And I really felt like that I really could see it from your perspective because I feel like that your worldview on the game is, hey, trust is all you have in this game. And Rick, Rick does have that with his. core, but you were, to me, you were asking him about, hey, what's the plan? What are we voting

for? We're like, why wouldn't you tell me about this four-person alliance? And he was sort of being evasive about it. And I just felt like that you were just looking for some clarity of like, but I don't understand. Why are you, why are you lying to me right now? And so I felt like that you just got off on the wrong foot there with that. You know, could I ask you a little bit more about the relationship that you had with Rizzo in the game? Because I think that that was something that maybe we didn't see as much of as it was actually a thing that was going on in the post-merge. Rob, like, you do your homework, man.

I respect you for that. Like, it really is. And you have very intelligent and thoughtful questions. So I appreciate it for that. Because the original moment was something that I, as I'm like, we had this moment on the merge beat in Lans and he tells me this story about his brother. And it was one of the most powerful stories I've heard for me and Survivor was about, it just, it didn't seem like he's playing the game.

and I have these rules where I'm like, wow, that that's pretty deep. You talk about your brother who has autism and I'm like, wow, man, like, I do not, like, that is off limits to me in terms of like I will always take that in and respect that and I'm going to hold on to that. And man, it set us off. Like we, I felt like after that, we played well. Like I, we always had a safe landing. I don't know where that went in the story, but man, we just kept.

Now, I know he was playing the game and he. Sure. better strategically than me by far. But I felt we had this safe landing. And all of a sudden, at the final, you kind of saw that. It was like, Jonathan, me, you and Joe. And you saw his, and it came up in these spurts. Ozzy said it.

In the little powwow we had there before he went home, because I trust my life in this game with Rizzo and Joe. And it just, people are grabbing that. That's not a random statement. So we had built this really unique relationship where I could tell he was playing, but I also felt we had trust. That was there. Yeah.

I feel like that on I believe it was the double duos vote where that, you know, you were left out of the vote and Rizzo was saying, hey, we got to talk to Joe about this. And then on the Ozzy vote, there was a point when Rizzo was being left out of the vote. And you said, hey, I got to make sure that Rizzo knows. about this. And so it did seem like that you two really were watching each other's backs. And I thought that that was interesting because I think that when you're at your best on Survivor, I feel like that we see you as like a caretaker, a parental figure. And so I thought that that was, and Rizzo,

we've seen him always looking for father figures in the game. And we saw him in his first season and with Colby. And so it did seem like that that was like a really like simpatico relationship, you and Rizzo. Rob, like, I want to point out to the viewers, did you just see his connection between Rizzo and I with two different situations and able to make the connection of how one, and it's brilliant.

People don't, I'm not just listen, man. No, I know, I know. So with that, yes, he in that moment but relates back to the fire moment. When I, everyone was like, why, Ozzy? I go, listen, man, it wasn't this tell Rizzo, he'll tell him.

I didn't think Rizzo, would spoil any plan. It wasn't like that. We had a different relationship. So it was more, I'm telling him like, hey, man, what are we going to do? Because I'm thinking of the next day. It was like, I can't burn this kid. And he can play the game.

So I'm like, he has to be included in this. I'm like, he's not going to burn me. And from my knowledge of what, you know, I didn't think he ever did. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I told you last night that I thought that you were a really fun addition to the season of that you were, because you're so different than how the other people play the game. And I thought that's something that was, I thought as a viewer that was fun, but maybe not fun for

you was that I felt like that you constantly this season went to tribal councils and voted for people you didn't want to vote for. And now I think that a lot of people probably at first blush would say, oh, you know, hey, you know, Joe's just, you know, he's going to stick to his guns and the, you know, the integrity. But I think that more often than not in this game, you ended up having to just like swallow what you wanted to do and go with the group. Well said and it was shocking to me. It was like this, honor,

integrity and this and that. I didn't have a plan or not, but I never mentioned it. I didn't, I didn't ever say, I didn't do that. And it was crazy. I was like,

I couldn't escape. It was like, anything I do, I was like, oh, yeah, well, you know, he said he wouldn't do it,

but he did. And then when I didn't do it, he's sticking to his guns. And I'm like, I can't, I can't climb out of this. like if I'm Steve Urkel, you can't climb out of that character ever. Like he can't ever play the rock.

And I thought, to your point, Rob, it's like this. Most of the time when you saw me being stubborn, it was like they were shoving a vote on me that I just didn't want to be a lackey. It's like, well, that's not the best for my game. I don't want to vote out, Ozzy. I want Rick out because he's a better player in the moment. And so you're right. It was a hard transition for me.

and that was me trying to play Survivor. I know that's laughable, but I was trying, man. Like, I really was. Okay, and we were talking a little bit about your relationship with Rizzo. And also, I feel like that your relationship with Aubrey was something that we didn't see as much of on the show until last night we saw with when she was bringing you to the final three that did seem very meaningful to you. Can you talk about your relationship with Aubrey? Funny story for Aubrey, people don't know. I'm off in the woods, jungle, and I'm looking at the moment that I had with Eva from season 48.

the fire making, I recognized the spot. Like, oh, man. And I didn't want it to be a thing. But I was like, you know what? Like, just getting myself ready. And I turn around. And from the backside of camp, I see Aubrey. She's hiding behind a bush.

And I hear Genevieve like, Aubrey. She's like, and it was like, I saw Productions due. And she was like looking for an idol, right? Yeah. And she runs off. Boom. And here I come into camp. And she happens to like come out of the dust.

and I look and I go, hey, and she goes, hey. And I go, because she's so real. She goes, Joe. And I go, hey, I get it. Because it was such a role. And I never told anybody. It wasn't a gameplay move. But we just, I would check in on her and she would check in on me.

She goes, Joe, these people. We just had that, like, Rob, you know what I mean when it's like these people? And I'm like, go back to it, girl. And you keep doing you and I'm going to go keep doing me. But like, I hear you. Like, I'm going to go back to not. knowing how to play this game. You keep tearing it up, but like, boom.

And so we just like, I love Aubrey. I do. Joe, by the way, congratulations on your acting debut coming up soon. Thank you. Thank you. I know that you have a lot going on, but have you considered a third time

trip to Survivor? 100%. I, you know, and I would say yes. And, Rob, listen, I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but I get a thrill now. We need that. We can't have All the same. Yeah. And I want that, Rob.

Like, I want all of us. If I could do this again, I would want the same cluster of just like randomness. Absolutely, bro. Like, you know, it's the journey. Jeff and Survivor saved my life. And I wish everyone could experience the journey. Yeah. All right.

Well, Joe, I really enjoy getting to talk to you. And really congratulations on all your success and really incredible job in all of the work you're doing outside of Survivor because you really are making a really big impact. And is there anything that you want people to take a look at that you want to highlight right now? Thanks for doing saying that, Rob. Just anyone that out there worth, you know, Joanna's law that we passed, it can help a lot of people as it helps prevent domestic violence and stage suicides. And then just a new Tyler Perry series is going to be pretty awesome coming up in the fall.

But I just want to say to you, Rob, like if I don't get the chance to talk to you, a lot after this. Thank you for always just being who you are. And, uh, yeah. Hey, uh, Joe, yeah, uh, thank you. Uh, you're always very generous, uh, talking about me and the podcast. I appreciate that. And, uh, congrats on everything going on. Thanks, Rob. All right. Take care, buddy. Hi. Here, buddy. We have precious time, Rob. Precious time here with the man, the myth, the legend, R-I-Z, G-O-D. Here he is that he's a bright-eyed, bushy tailed. Do you go to sleep yet tonight?

I probably have one hour of sleep. One hour. But I'm here. I'll run it on adrenaline. You can handle it. You can handle it. You listen, you know about a quick turnaround from one thing to the next. And so you're ready to go. How are you holding up today? Honestly, Rob, I feel great. It's a little bittersweet because the last two years of my life has all been about Survivor. 26 episodes have been of the Risgod, Year of the Risgod for me and my friends and family. So I feel great. Obviously, yesterday was very interesting, another survivor first that I'm a part of.

But I think looking back at it, it's going to be a great moment to laugh at. In the moment, I was like, but I'm very happy. Sure. You know, I think it was an all-time moment. I really do. I agree. And, you know, maybe I think it's between the Mr. Beast coin and that I think is probably the most memorable moment from season 50.

Well, we're putting that up for the Emmy. You hear it first. So yeah. Okay. That's cool. So I'd love to, you know, we got the chance of talk last night. And I thought we had a great talk. And, you know, I really, I don't know if this is like making it about me.

But one of the reasons why I have such a fondness towards you is that I really see so much of my younger self in you and how you have a love for the game. And so I just have all that's been always very endearing to me. about you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, like just being there and seeing Vespea out of the woodworks at the finale, seeing Ben Dreibergan, all these winners, Sarah Lascena, Adam Klein, you name it, they were pretty much there, Parviti, Boston Rob, all that. It's been great. And, you know, for me, I started with Survivor Token Cheans. I'm so happy they highlighted that

so sad JT wasn't there. Stephen Fishback lock in. I just love this game and to know that I left an impact on the game. Whether you love me or hate me, I'm a polarizing figure, and that's exactly what you need when you cast people on Survivor, has meant a lot to me. Like I said, you hate me, you love me, but you can't deny the impact that I left on the show that I love, and that was my mission out there. Yeah. I'd love to go back a little bit through the game that we have a little bit of time this morning after talking last night. So coming in and starting the game, you ended up, you seem like that you were kind of one of the people that was on the bottom at VATU, And again, like always, you really work your way in there.

Could you talk a little bit about the early days of Vatu? I would love that. Yeah, Vatu was very interesting because very early on, I saw the breakdowns just happening. Colby Stephanie locked in. Genevieve Kyle locked in. And Aubrey and Angelina were kind of locked in. So it was me by myself as one lone wolf and three trios and then Q's on exile.

So when Q came back, that's when we really started hit the. ground running for me personally because my first day was a little too much i was asking colby why he took tina to the end i'm asking stephanie how does she deal about her loss in guatemala i get it i was just the i was the annoying super fan out there and then once i really started to get my teeth into people i was very closely aligned with jenev that we didn't really see which kind of sucks but the reason why she gives me the idol is because she has trust in me and realized that hey i'm a good ally and she probably could have blindsided me um so we were super closely aligned and then obviously when Kyle gets medevacked.

Colby and I and Q and Stephanie and Genevieve were kind of a fysome in that game. And unfortunately, I was super loyal to a lot of them. But as the pre-merge progressed, they were just getting knocked out, knocked out, knocked out. And the reason why I'm so proud of my early game is, I was kind of a dead man walking coming into the game, Rob. You hear coach and exit press saying that he was writing notes to Colby to get me out. Preseason, everyone's like, we got to get this Risgod kid out. And to know that people's first impressions of me were so poor, but for them to all turn around and love me, for a good part of the game at least, meant a lot to me. Hey, you did, you know, we were worried that, hey, this Riz God intro is going to really hurt this guy.

But I think that it sort of helped you and sort of like people had like very low expectations of this guy. He calls himself Riz God, I'm going to hate this guy. And then they met you and you won them all over. So a great job by you. Now, you and Aubrey were on the same starting tribe, but I feel like that that was a relationship we didn't see a ton of during the show. But I have to imagine that you and Aubrey got pretty close over the 26-day game. Yeah, Aubrey is such a funny relationship because I love Aubrey.

But in the game, man, I just felt that she was kind of floating, but like not floating with purpose at the time. I think she played a great game. Obviously, that's why I voted for her. but I just never knew where Aubrey's head was at. She always talked about having an open door policy. Well, I also. Yeah, open era.

Look, she saw the future. She was the reason why 51 happened. But no, I didn't know strategically where she was aligned until the Ozzy vote. The Ozzy vote, honestly, Aubrey Joe, Jonathan, and I kind of came together and said, listen, we're a voting block until the final four. And then I had a sub-alliance with Joe and Jonathan where we wanted to be the final three. us three guys thought we all had the best chance against each other. And we thought we can be Aubrey at the end.

She has not, she's won one immunity in her career, Rob, in four seasons. So we took the gamble against her and we obviously failed. But I had a great relationship with Aubrey out there. We were able to talk strategy, but I just didn't know where her head was at until the Ozzy vote. Yeah. Again, not to make it too much about me, but I saw some parallels to the Survivor Amazon finale with you where you're me and Jonathan's Matt and Joe's Butch. And here comes Aubrey,

Jenna Marasca. And, you know, sometimes you have a really good plan of how it's going to work out. I just need to get here and do this. And the immunities will throw that off. So I definitely, you know, it would look good on paper.

Yeah. Yeah. I felt that out there. To me once, and people say, oh, if I won fired, did I have a shot at winning? Absolutely not. Aubrey just would have clean sleep to me and Joe. I felt I really lost the game once. Aubrey won final immunity. Yeah, we were talking about this last night.

I think that Jonathan really had his voters. He had his base locked in, but I think that there were people on the fence. And I think that you had a pretty competitive shot to be able to some of those votes. Yeah, for sure. I think Jonathan, like you said, had locked votes. But the early jury, like D and a couple of other people, he kind of mismanaged a little bit. And I felt like those are the jurors that I could get. I felt like if it was us three, I had Ceri on lock.

I had D on lock, Tiff. at that point it's what three three locked votes the battle is up there and I think I could have possibly it comes down to like the Christian Rick Emily people and I think you got a decent shot of being able to pull those people over I want to go back though to where early in the season that I thought that this was going to be it for you where Charlie said hey you know what this guy Rizzo that he didn't vote for his number one and maybe didn't end up voting for his number one ultimately maybe Charlie was right about that but it ends up becoming a big subplot in the season.

Did you know about any of that while the show was going on? Or was this all a surprise to you when you saw the episodes? Yeah, all surprised when I saw the episodes. From my understanding, Charlie just wanted me out because I was the OG Batu member. He thought it was the easy vote just for him to escape by, make it to the merge, find all his allies. And I try to work with Charlie. I mean, my girlfriend loves Charlie. So I went in there like, we got to work together for Liz Scott, for the Swifties.

And obviously he wasn't buying what I was putting down. And I recognized that and that boat conversation. I was like, dude, Charlie's pressing me about information. Yeah, you got to go, buddy. And that's why I thought he wanted me out. I thought we had a great rivalry, great arc. And then watching the episode and seeing all of this hoopla, I thought back to it, Rob. I was thinking back, I was like, oh, my God.

Like, I guess me asking about Maria really was bad. Like, that was so bad. But it was so funny, like, looking back on it. So I had no idea to watching the episode. But also looking back on it, and you couldn't have seen this coming. I don't think, but that really like destroyed OG Kalo where then you ended up getting D and Camilla to blindside Jonathan and then he has a vendetta against them. And then they were really never able to pick up the pieces.

And so that was really the thing that just completely decimated anything that was coming out of column. Yeah, for sure. I think honestly, like the biggest switch in the game was either the Mike White vote or the Charlie vote because it was kind of a domino effect, right? Once that happened, Jonathan started targeting Camilla and D. I mean, I will say even if let's say, well, I guess if I went home, who knows what would have happened. But I think Jonathan still would have voted out Camilla at that blood moon.

But who knows, a lot of dominoes and chips would have fell differently. For sure. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about the relationship with Ozzy, you and Surrey and Ozzie had this final three at one point in the game. But ultimately, you feel like that Ozzie, he said too much. and you turn on Ozzy. And it feels like that Ozzy seemed really down on you after that. Have you and Ozzy been able to reconcile at all?

I don't know, Rob. Honestly, I think Ozzy's just dealing with, you know, I feel like this is my opinion. I feel like he really blames his loss on me, which ultimately sucks because I have so much respect for Ozzie and so much respect for the legends. And I'll say this. At Ponderosa, when I got there after losing fire,

Ozzie basically said you were losing this game regardless. You should have came and lost with me. And that's just not how I play the game. That's not how I see the game. So, I mean, I don't think we hate each other. But I don't know if Ozzy's the biggest fan of me. But I have nothing but love and respect for him. Yeah.

It's a tough spot for you that there was a lot of talk online about maybe should you have stood up and told Ozzy to play his idol at tribal council. Could you have weaponized that? No. So I'll tell you exactly why I can't do that because Ozzy laid it out to Aubrey, his exact end game. And I knew all this. Aubrey told me her end game.

So if I go out there and do a Natalie Anderson, Ozzie play your idol, you know what's going to happen? Aubrey's going to be like, wow, Rizzo is a sheep that listens to Ozzie and did everything that he wanted. And if Ozzie's going to make the end game because Ozzie Tiff and Surrey were close, I would have lost and everybody would have called me an idiot because I did exactly what Ozzy wanted. So I lost all my agency.

That wouldn't have been my move. That would have been Ozzy sheeping me to make his move. Yeah. You know, we talked about it probably a lot more in season 49 about the way that you really changed the way people might think about the hidden immunity idol. And it was probably less of a talking point and a storyline in this season, but it certainly came up again where people know you have an idol. known idol and it's always like,

okay, this is the tribal council, I'm going to play it, and people don't vote for you, and then you end up pocketing it and bring it back to now, is that something that you think that we will see moving forward in Survivor, that do you think that we've really changed the way the hidden immunity idol is used?

I'd like to think so, but I think it's going to change. I think people's going to start targeting people, and I think what we saw with Aubrey at the early merges is what's going to happen again, only because, you know, Rob, I'm very polarizing. You have some part of the fan base that think I'm a brilliant player that was able to weaponize the idol. And you have some people that think I'm a zero vote finalist that just got lucky because nobody wanted to vote me out.

I think we'd be a little bit in the middle. I was so lucky to be insulated with everyone. The reason why I never had to play my idols because I knew everything that was happened. I was aligned with the nucleus of the game both in 49 and 50 because of the information Soap and I were able to get in 49. I knew what to do. In 50, everybody was aligned with Surrey. And you know who was Surrey's number one, Al? ally, me. So of course I knew what to play the idol. Fifty, I had less maneuverability with it

because all I could do is play it on myself. So of course, I'm not going to just burn it. I might as well just keep it as an individual immunity necklace. Forty-nine, I was able to want it a little bit. But I ultimately think the reason why I was able to do such a good job with it was because I knew where all the votes were going. And I don't know if that's going to be the case for the next idol holders and the next seasons. Okay. Last question for you today. You've been through so much in these last six months or so or nine months. What is time, but how do you go back to normal life now after this? Great question, Rob.

Honestly, what I will say is I'm very proud about how I never lost myself. Not to even get emotional, but this game's meant so much to me. I love Survivor. I love everything that you guys do and what Jeff has meant to me. And this has been a dream for me. And I never lost myself throughout this whole process, whether it's the fan backlash or, you know, what people say online or anything. I went out there to represent so many people I love, my girlfriend and everyone.

And to go back to normal is going to be, it's going to suck a little bit, but I was always normal. You know what I mean? I'm not no celebrity. It's a kid with a dream. And I made that dream come true. Yeah, you did. Hey, listen, Rizzo.

Sorry. No, that's, that was beautiful. You got a good head on your shoulder. And, you know, I've seen many young people come through this and they don't all come out okay. But I think that you're going to be just fine. And you'd reach out anytime, okay? Looking forward to many more chats in the future, Rizzo. Thanks, Rob.

All right. Take care, buddy. Appreciate it, Rob. I'll see you for 51 coverage. Nice. Take care. Hopefully before then. Take care.

Bye. All right. We are back here with Tiffany, Nicole, Irvin. And Tiffany. How are you? I almost called you Nicole. I'm so used to talking to it. I was funny. My mom, she's the only one that ever calls me by my middle name.

She calls me Nicole or Nikki, but. Yeah. So my name. Yeah, Nicole's my wife. And this was awkward for us because she was your winner. You were her winner pick also. So even if you would have pulled this off, it really, I wouldn't have been able to take full credit because my wife who has much better picks than me. She also, she saw you also.

That's the winner. Oh man. Should have been. Should have coulda. Should have coulda woulda. Yeah. You know, Tiffany, we're blessed because we got the chance to talk last night. And we talked a lot about everything that came out of the finale. But we have this time today. And I kind of wanted to go back to a little bit because, you know, I'm old enough to remember the era where we didn't hear so much from you in the season. And I saw that you had made a post way back when there was so much going on at Calo. And there was. And there was. was strategy and all sorts of things. And I wanted to see if we could hear a little bit about that from you. Yeah, absolutely. Colla was a mess. Original callo was a hot mess. So me, Camilla, and Dee were obviously very tightly aligned.

Coach of Jonathan were aligned. Charlie was really tight with me, D, and Camilla. He was also kind of tight with Coach Jonathan and Joe. Mike White, he was more with the girls. He was more with me, D. and Camilla. Chrissy, she was with coaching Jonathan from the very beginning. And to be honest, if we went to tribal at any point on original Calo, I think Chrissy would have been the first vote.

It was just messy. But also, what a lot of people didn't see was that me and coach were actually really close on the original Calo, which is why when he started throwing my name around at the merge, it was so jarring and so crazy. I'm like, are you kidding me right now, Coach? There are people on this island that hate you that are coming up to me asking me what I think about you and I'm vouching for you.

And you over here telling them write my name down. Like there was so many complicated relationship dynamics. Even me and Jonathan, me and Jonathan were really cool. We were working together, which is why the Camilla Blindside was so crazy. And then the dynamics of what happened at the Charlie vote out, it threw me off because if you, guys would have seen anything about the original

Carlo, how tight me, D, Charlie, and Camilla were, it would have been even crazier. Yeah. But it's kind of like, it came out of nowhere for you guys because you guys never saw our original tribe dynamics. And I wish you guys could have saw the beginning of that story because the merge would have made so much more sense.

Yeah. Well, it sounds like that the Charlie vote kind of came out of nowhere for you if Charlie would, yes. I remember being on the merge boat, leaving, coming back. I'm looking over. I see the boat. Charlie's not in it. I'm like, oh, my God. Because I saw the numbers. I'm like, oh, good.

We got four collar over there. We're straight. Like, we're going to be back together at the Merge. We're going to be running stuff. So when they came back and said, Charlie was gone, I was like, oh, man, Charlie was also actually somebody that I really wanted to work with. So my ally started getting chopped down before we ever got back to the Merge Beach. I'm like, I was already working behind the eight ball. Yeah. You know, I talked about this a little bit with Rizzo, but really Mike White and Charlie back to back really just completely knee-capped collo. And basically that callo was just that whatever was left was fighting with each other. And it just was not a faction that was going to be able to make an impact together.

No, not at all. And it sucks because the people that I was closest to, Mike White, gone. Charlie, gone. As soon as we get split, Camilla, gone. D, gone. I'm like, oh my God. These are all my allies. I had to build from scratch.

Yeah. But it didn't seem as dramatic to the viewers as it was to me, because y'all never saw how closely I was working with everybody or how much it affected me really started back at zero from the first merge vote. Yeah. So after the old Kalo ends up getting swapped, you end up on this swap tribe where there are, you know, certainly people from your old tribe,

but we are really seeing you with Aubrey. And so could you talk a little bit about what would have happened if you went to a tribal council with that swap group? I probably would have went home. Yeah. Because I feel like that if I feel like that maybe. Yeah, because Aubrey has the idol. And I think that maybe she plays the idol. And I was worried for you during that time.

Yeah. Yeah. I would have definitely gone home because Kobe, Chrissy and coach, I think they already had that going on. and plan, you know, before we got to Calo 2.0. So that was already sandstone. Genevieve and Colby were close from original Vitu. Aubrey was always on the out. I was line with Aubrey.

And while I was still cool with coach, I was not cool with Chrissy and I wasn't cool with Kobe. Nor was I cool with Genevieve. So we go to tribal council. Aubrey plays her idol. I go home. I'm confident that that's how I would have went, which is why I worked so hard in every group.

challenge to not go to tribal council because I said, this is not a battle I want to fight, nor is it when I'm prepared to fight right now. So we just not going to lose. Yeah. You know, I think that's also, we were talking about your game last night and we were talking about how, you know, you really, you call it like it is, but you are so well regarded among the other players. And I also think that there is maybe where we saw that people didn't even want to write your name down from the split vote. And I think that part of it is because that they like you so much. but I think that also, I don't think that people want the smoke. I do think it's a combination of the two, right?

While I worked a lot harder this season to not give anybody smoke to their face. Obviously, I said what I needed to say in my confessionals, but I do think it genuinely was the fact that people liked me. From the point that I got to the merge, like I told you, a lot of my original tribe had been wiped out. A lot of the people I trusted were gone. So I hit the ground running. When it came to making alliances and friends.

And I think one thing that I did really good was kind of giving people a safe space to talk to me, to talk about things that did not have anything to do with Survivor. Be vulnerable. We're friends. Like, I'm your home girl. Like, everybody felt that with me. Which is why even when coach was pitching my name, people were like, I don't want to write tips name now. I don't do that.

I like her. Why would I have to do that? And coach is like, well, do you want it to be you? if you wanted to be you. And because it's the first jury vote, people don't want it to be them. And they're like, are fine,

but she's just a backup, right? But if Dee's shot in the dark would hit, I would have went home. Yeah. So I want to talk about the blood moon. And, you know, I thought it was interesting in the blood moon because I know it was very traumatic,

but, you know, it seemed like that people never really talked about writing your name down. It seemed like that it was always going to be Camilla. And I had assumed that maybe you and Chrissy had gotten closer and Chrissy was vouching for you. you, but in talking to you, it doesn't sound like that that was the case. So I think one thing that I did a very good job of this season that I didn't do the first time

I played is that when I had issues with people, they never knew. Chrissy did not know how much I didn't trust her. I mean, she knew to a certain extent, but by the time we got to the blood moon, I had the conversations that I needed to be had, people felt safe with me. Yeah. And I think that the reason Camilla went. when she did is because Camilla and I are not like

I'm warm and fluffy. I know that sounds crazy because I'm the person that always speaks my mind. You can be both. I can be both. And I think that that's why I'm able to do that because people understand that I will always tell you how I feel but I'm going to do it with love.

I'm going to tell you how I feel I'm never going to make anybody feel disrespected or on hurt. Camilla's not warm and fluffy. Camilla's straight to the point. She's direct and she's funny. It's hell. But I think people just felt safe with me. Yeah. You know, Tiffany, there's a lot of secret lawyers in the new era, but I think that you might

be actually a secret jury lawyer because I think that, and you really were so good, again, at the final tribal council. Like, I think that you certainly, like, helped make the case for Kenzie in season 46. And then I felt like that in the final tribal council, certainly, when Stephanie asked maybe a little bit more of a, you know, a roller coaster ride of a, of a question or a statement, depending on your perspective.

That was not a question. That was absolutely not a question. I was very confused. As you can see, the rest of the jury was also confused. Yeah. What's not the craziest thing? I'm like, okay,

can we be serious for a moment? What are we doing here? Is this jury or not? Because contrary to popular belief. Yeah. Listen, I'm not a bitter juror. I've never been a bitter juror. But one thing I do is take my jury duty as seriously as I do my gameplay.

Yeah. None of that BS, that fluffy, that what are, is this a Jonathan marketing propaganda? Or are we questioning the jury people on why we should get them our vote? Yeah. So something I've seen talked about from that Final Tribal Council was that it seemed like that the jury was actually very vocal. in terms of not necessarily like, hey, what are the answers we want to see, but trying to help make the case for the person that they wanted to see when. Was that your perspective when you were there,

or do you think that that's not a fair depiction of that final tribal council? I don't think that's a fair depiction of the tribal council for a couple of reasons. One, that tribal council was so much longer than what you guys saw. For a lot of questions and answers that were not shown, I think what you guys were shown was like a very small snippet that gave you the highlights of what led to the end result and a fair snippet of what happened. But also, I think the line of questioning that you guys saw, it was more so about people who were open that were looking for very specific answers that would help them make up their

mind. We know what we saw. We all knew what we needed to hear to help us figure out where we wanted to land our votes. We have very specific questions. Most of us were looking for very specific answers. Yeah. You know, you over the last couple of votes where, whether it was at the final six and final five, that you were really pushing for Aubrey to do the person to go home and vice versa. And you started off the game in a very close relationship. You ultimately end up being a really strong proponent of Aubrey to win the game at the final tribal council. But was there any sort of the hard feelings with Aubrey at the way that your game ended? I mean, not real heart feelings. Like, it's a game heart feelings.

Like, frustrated. Like, you know, you're my ally. You turned on me. Like, girl, get out of my face with that BS. Like, you know, me expressing myself. But at the same time, once I was voted out and I realized that my role in the game had changed, it was no longer about that. Yeah. Nobody could ever accuse me of being bitter.

No. Ever. Like, because at the end of the day, I respect, I respect Aubrey's gameplay. She got rid of when she needed to. She pivoted when she needed to. And I think the reason why Aubrey got my vote is because I think she deserved it. And I hate to say it, but I told you so. I tried to tell Joe and John.

I say, yo, I don't know why y'all are underestimating Aubrey the way that y'all are again. Yeah. I think for me that went down to some of the unconscious biases that I think might have been floating around out there. I look strong, but Aubrey and I are both strong. Yeah. Y'all are missing it here. Y'all looking at the muscles, y'all looking at the immunity necklace wins.

And the fact that I'm friendly, y'all are underestimating this girl and she's going to wipe the floor with y'all. Yeah. But you would have wiped the floor with them too. Okay, I would have wiped the floor too. I would have wiped the floor too, but I would have rather wipe the floor.

They'd Aubrey wiped the floor. I was just trying to for me to get there and wipe the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they weren't wrong about that. No. They weren't wrong. They weren't wrong about me. You don't have to like it, but they weren't wrong. I don't have to like it. They weren't wrong. You know, something that I think might have been maybe a big pivot point in the game was there was that challenge where we do the booth review and then it turns out that you started late and they give the immunity to Jonathan and he becomes the power broker.

But I was thinking about it and I was wondering if maybe you would have had the same two people go out. You were talking about Emily for a while. You had talked about how Ozzy was a threat. Who would have gone home if you were the power broker? So I think it depends, right? Because ultimately, the tribes were split based on a rock draw. I don't know what a rocks would have landed if I won. The tribes can be completely different.

However, if we're talking same tribes with me and Jonathan just swapping, Yeah. My targets don't change. Yeah. My targets don't change. Yeah. Because it seemed like that. I'm not what I wanted anyway.

Yeah. But I am grateful that I ended up where I am because I think that me and I went and actually worked out better in my favor because I was able to be there to protect free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, you know, sort of of two minds where it would have been better or worse for you. I thought that you actually, you got what you wanted and you didn't get any blood on your

hands in terms of that. But I do feel like that, you know, maybe sort of. She really wanted Ozzy just to plush his idol, but she wanted him to stay in the game. And I wonder if maybe that there would have been some way for her to get that. And you know what? Honestly, that wouldn't have been a bad outcome for me either. Because for me personally, Ozzy was a bigger threat to me because of the idol. I beat Ozzy in the challenge before.

That's not what I was scared of. The idol to me is a seat filler. that's filling the seat that I could be in. So if Ozzy plays his idol, like I said, me and Ozzy were working together. We already were like, we kind of linked up after he came to me, told me he wrote my name down, we wiped the slate clean. We were working together. So Ozzy plays his idol.

He comes back to the beach. I still get what I want. Yeah. Tip, I also thought you had the right idea on the Rick Devin's vote of potentially trying to blindside Rizzo and keeping Rick Devin's around as a shield. And Saris said, no, that was still a bad idea. I asked her about this. She said it was still a bad idea.

Rick Devin's was still saying to get out Surrey. But I think that keeping Rick around for one vote does help. Yeah, I do think that in that situation, that's where me and Surrey kind of like have differing of opinion. Because Rick was targeting Surrey. He was not targeting me. So keeping Rick in the game would have been better for my game. Yeah.

Better for Surrey's game. Well, ultimately, it could have been better for Surrey's game too because nobody trusted Rick. they wanted Rick out so bad it was palpable. I'm like, girl, they still going to want Rick out tomorrow, just like they want him today. And we could rush idol. But everybody was so scared of Rick and his idol hunts that they were not willing to look past it.

Okay. Tiffany, Survivor 50 has been sort of, you know, you're so much of what's going on in this last over a year. What's coming up for you? What do you do next? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, obviously, I'll play Survivor again if I ever got the call, but I mean, I'd be open to doing other shows. I'm a competitor. I feel like it's like an addiction now. It's like a high. Like you playing like these games and people. And it's fun. Yeah, it is fun. Yeah, that's right. We get addicted and then we want to do more stuff. And so don't get upset. Maybe I'm afraid. Yeah, maybe. I think, oh, you'd be great. Listen, let me tell you something.

My heart still hurt when it got you out. Same. All you have to do was just say that thing you said. Different person. Different person. What do you know? Listen, listen, listen, you could do my exit interview about that anytime, Tiffany. Okay, all right.

And really, and you and Surrey, I feel like that could be a show also. That was so fun. We've talked about it. Yeah. Okay. Please don't end. me. Okay, Tiffany. Thank you so much. Of course not.

Always great to talk to you and keep in touch. Okay, take care. Thank you so much. All right. Bye. Bye. All right, everybody, there you have it. There are my exit interviews with the final five. I really thought that everybody did a really great job of being very introspective. And I really enjoyed all these conversations about everybody brought it. I didn't know what kind of shape everybody was going to show up in, considering that we did this about nine hours after we left the live finale, but everybody had really interesting things to say, and I'm looking forward

to talking much more about this season here with you all in the rearview mirror as we look back at Spiverty. What a ride. It's been, thank you so much for listening. Take care, but have a good one. Bye.