RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Finale Recap w/ Sam Phalen & Owen Knight

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Survivor 50 Finale Recap w/ Sam Phalen & Owen Knight Sam Phalen and Owen Knight step in for Rob and Stephen with a special Survivor 50 Finale recap, breaking down the epic finale with a sharp focus on storytelling, strategy, and redemption. With Rob Cesternino reporting live from the red carpet in Los Angeles, this episode captures the chaos, emotion, and big moments that define the culmination of this milestone Survivor season. Owen and Sam dive right in, spotlighting Aubry Bracco’s long-awaited victory, a win that feels as much like rewriting Survivor history as it does a personal redemption story. The hosts examine how returning players wrestle with past mistakes, seeking a second (or fourth) shot at glory, and how narrative “warfare” takes center stage at Final Tribal Council. The tension spikes as they dissect the nail-biting final five immunity challenge, Tiffany’s near-miss, and a live finale oops from Jeff Probst that left the Survivor community buzzing. The discussion highlights not just game mechanics, but how legacy and perception shape every decision, especially when it comes to letting legends and underdogs sit together at the end. Key discussion points include: – Aubry Bracco’s “lifetime achievement” win and how her story earned jury respect – The impact of “narrative warfare” at Final Tribal Council, with jurors going to battle for their favorites – The razor-thin margin that sent Tiffany home at final five and its $2 million implications – Sam and Owen’s behind-the-scenes look at how past game scars drive current play – Reflections on fire-making drama, the fan-favorite award, and the future of Survivor’s “open era” This episode asks: Does history matter more than moves in a season stacked with icons? What’s the real value of a Survivor narrative, and when should players pivot from flash to finesse? Join for deep strategy, emotional confessions, and unmatched Survivor 50 gameplay—plus a sneak peek at what the new “open era” could bring! 0:00 Survivor 50 Finale Recap Start 2:07 Aubry’s Redemption: From Koh Rong 5:03 Jury Debates Aubry’s Legacy 7:37 Narrative Warfare: Christian, Jonathan, Rizo 10:35 Aubry’s Story Captivates Final Tribal 14:26 Aubry Beats Jonathan in Immunity 20:52 Jonathan Struggles at Final Tribal Council 28:04 Jonathan Misses Jury’s Desired Story 34:41 Tiffany’s $2 Million Immunity Heartbreak 41:05 Aubry’s Emotional Immunity Celebration 45:10 Rizo Takes On Jonathan In Fire 52:57 Jeff Spoils Rizo’s Fire Exit Live 56:14 Joe Reflects On Survivor 50 58:35 Family Visit Surprises Finalists 66:48 Tiff’s Late Game Edit Discussed To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

All right, here we are. We are live, Sam Phelan here with Owen Knight. It's the Survivor 50 finale, No-It-alls. And the No-It-alls might look a little different tonight because, Owen, you're here, I'm here. But your friend in mine, Rob Sester Nino, is out in Los Angeles at the live finale at the red carpet. I think we have Rob with us to join us to provide an update. Hey guys, what's going on? I am here on the red carpet for Survivor 50,

and we are so excited to celebrate. Aubrey won. Oh, wait, am I allowed to say that yet? Did that happen? No, they didn't air it yet. They didn't air it. Go back. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. The West Coast News are going to be so mad at you, Rob. Are you? Oh, my God. Are you serious? This is live, Rob. This is live. Did I blow it?

Did I blow it? No, seriously. Thank you, Sam and Owen for filling in for Stephen and I here live. But I am here in Los Angeles, the site of the big return of the Survivor Live finale, working on getting some interviews here in a couple of minutes. Joe is currently on the red carpet. Tiffany has made her way to the red carpet. So I'm going to throw it to you guys. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. And then once I get done with some interviews over here, I'd love to come back on.

and give some thoughts about the night. But a huge night for Aubrey, everybody here was so psyched. And I know there's a lot to talk about. Definitely. All right. We'll check me with you later. Yeah, okay.

Hop on whenever you get done with your interviews. Owen and I have a lot to discuss. So much. Okay. All right. I'll keep you posted on what's going on here on the ground. All right, Rob. Thank you.

Our boots on the ground reporting. That's how you do it right there. Oh, man. Owen, how are you? Welcome in to the No-Node-old. Good to be here with you. I mean, I'm so flattered they asked us, just little old us here, but we got some end game experience. But yeah, I thought it was a fun finale. I mean, we've got, like you said, a ton to talk about. I mean, headline, obviously, Aubrey seals the deal redeems herself, whatever you want to call it. There's definitely a lot of poeticism to her win after the much Ballyhoo discussion around Co-Rong. And like she described in the episode, the ups and downs of everybody talking about her, was she robbed? Was she the, the a bad social player. It all came together for her here,

particularly this episode. But I thought a well-deserved win, a really excellent final tribal performance, which we'll dive into. And yeah, I thought it was a pretty satisfactory conclusion. I'm super stoked for her. I mean,

you could see just how much it meant to her. But I'm excited to get into it with you here tonight, man. Yeah, there's so much to go over. We have a really, really intense Final Five challenge. We have, you know,

an equally, I guess, intense buildup to firemaking that I suppose was spoiled for a lot of viewers here tonight with a big headlining. Oopsie I didn't think we'd be talking about from our guy, Jeff Probst, at the live finale. A really fun final tribal that I can't wait to talk about a little later on because I do think it's very unique in terms of the final tribals that we've seen in recent memory, but also really in survivor history. We have narrative warfare, as Christian Hubicki put it, which I thought was brilliant and very fitting for this episode. Survivor 51 preview, Surrey Fields winning the fan favorite award, just really a loaded evening. So here we are, and I think you are dead on that we should start with our winner of Survivor 50, Aubrey Braco. So I do think, hey, the last couple of weeks, based on the edit, if you're into that sort of a thing, it was starting to lean towards this being Aubrey's redemption story. And she puts the finishing touches on it here, Owen, but not without a few scares, both at final tribal council and she half a second, Tiffany Jonathan, at that final five immunity for maybe going home.

but I suppose that's the story for Aubrey. And I think, oh, and the highlight for Aubrey is the story. Because this to me feels like it is the Lifetime Achievement Award at this final tribal council. So much talk, even from Tiffany talking to Jonathan, I believe it, is at that final five or Joe, whoever, about, hey, Aubrey, some people feel like she should have won co wrong. She's got a lot of friends out there. she's well respected. That's kind of the main takeaway here is a jury of people who feel like they need to rewrite history and give Aubrey a well-deserved win. Yeah.

And I mean, I feel like that's what was so juicy about 50 to begin with when we saw this cast, regardless of if they were coming from the new era or this is their fourth time, like Aubrey, people were coming in with baggage. You know, we heard all season Rob talking about the scars that people had and how it affected their gameplay. You saw Charlie, you know, his narrative, albeit in a short time, was about, you know, voting for your closest ally at Final Tribal. You see Aubrey here, obviously, trying to reverse this whole narrative about her social game. You see Jonathan wanting to be more than just a strong challenge beast type player. You want to see Joe being more ruthless. Like, they all are coming in trying to make tweaks to their game. And, I mean, like you said, Christian really put it perfectly and summarized it well with the narrative warfare.

And I thought Aubrey nailed that question at Final Tribal. I thought it was really beautiful. And I agree with you to an extent that it is somewhat of a capstone of her survivor career, you know, and rewarding her whole body of work. But, you know, let's not sleep on the game she played either. And I'm not saying that you did. But I do think she navigated this game very well. We saw kind of snippets of it throughout the season.

And like you said, I was getting a bit, I don't know, suspicious is the right word. But we were checking in with Aubrey a heck of a lot as the season went on. And I think a pivotal moment for her that she discussed at Final Tribal, but was back a few weeks ago when she saw the writing on the wall when it came to the middle with Christian and Devons and Emily and how she was getting lumped in with them. She started making this connection with Jonathan,

sort of an alliance on the down low where they're saying they'll just keep each other's names out of rotation. They'll warn them if something is coming up. And I think that really set the table for her to find herself in a pretty good position. in this end game. And so, yeah, all the props to her for her, her navigation of that kind of swing position. And I really appreciated what she said. I thought it was very humble and showed a lot of humility when she thanked all those other winners of her previous seasons and what she's taken away from their games. And, you know, I think they, there's something to be said about,

you know, maybe some people were excited a bit more about Rick Devons pulling off these flashy moves and just being a little bit more in your face and sending it and going for it. But the meta of a lot of Survivor right now in the new era and in 50 was a lot of that tall poppy syndrome taking out the big threats. Who's the biggest threat remaining at the end? And she positioned herself perfectly to take on the W in a really convincing, what was it, 8 to 3 final vote there. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting conversation. I think it's something that has shown its head here in the new era. and then especially here in season 50.

And it might stand out a little bit more in season 50 because we do have so many returning players, so many big characters that a lot of fans were excited to see. And a lot of antics, like you mentioned, from Rick Devons to Christian Hubecki to, you know, Q to, you know, the dominance that we saw from Surrey throughout. You saw a lot of people taking this game by the horns. And yet I do feel as though we are currently living in an era of Survivor

where optimal gameplay is, as I think Chrissy Hoffback put it during Final Tribal Council, passive gameplay. It is the idea of can you hang out and kind of like, you know, keep your hand off the steering wheel enough to not be deemed one of the biggest threats. And then as Aubrey says in a confessional, peak right at the end. And that's what she does here. I think, you know, we'll get into some final tribal council what ifs, I suppose. but it certainly felt like this end game was building for people wanted to go to the end with Joe specifically and some combination of Jonathan and Rizzo.

And what that looked like for you was different, but it was kind of a battle between these Ceres, Rick Devons, Tiffany's, Aubrey's. Even Jonathan here at the end, his ideal final three is him, Joe Rizzo. And he might do very well in that final tribal council scenario. So it's kind of a battle of like, hey, who can identify who might not have as much favor with the jury and who can position themselves to win. And Aubrey does do that very well. I agree with you. By the way, I think her best answer, I guess we can just go ahead and get into the final tribal council, Owen, because I think Aubrey's best answer is her final answer. I think all three finalists actually did a very good job.

Joe had a rough go. Surrey was a little tough on him. The jury said a little tough on him. Yeah, that was tough. I thought Emily Flippen did a really nice job of being fair to Joe and giving Joe a chance to speak. And speaking to some of the merits of his game and what gave him power to get to the end, Joe on my notes here is now the only player in Survivor history to play multiple seasons and have a perfect record of making the final tribal council. So there is something there.

But I really feel like the difference. with three players who kind of correctly understood their games, correctly understood and owned their games to the jury, is the story. And it is the narrative. And you hear Joe say, well, you know, I played a little differently. And Jonathan say, oh, well, you know, I played a little differently. And Aubrey sat there and told a story.

And she told the story about this girl who almost got, you know, booted right away on Survivor 32. Yeah, had a panic attack on day two. And I think that makes you feel something. And I think if you're a juror who's looking at this historic season and looking for somebody to, you know, give $2 million to, even if you feel like the three people at the end aren't your most like active dominant game players that are left, a story like that is one that any juror can buy. So I want to acknowledge that. And then, Owen, I want to ask you, I feel like Aubrey very similar. to a man that you know very well and a survivor winner that you know very well in in one mike gabler we hear

her talk about going back under the surface uh and kind of like being part of plans even if she wasn't necessarily driving the plan that she had her hand in things do you see that comparison and uh i just i'd love to hear your thoughts on it as somebody who you know is in this position of uh of you know seeing it first hand yeah yeah yeah Yeah, no, I noticed that immediately with that answer. I forget what question she was responding to, but talking about how she really didn't want to stand out in kind of that middle of the game area, especially in a cast of 24, just as a sidebar.

Like, I feel like that period was so extensive. And to get from, you know, the merge to the end game took a lot more stamina and navigation than your average season. So extra props to her there. But yeah, that kind of like, I don't know. I don't know if it's sent to chill down my spine or just like took me back to the jungle. but it really was reminiscent of Gableer describing his, his Allie Gable,

going under the surface, because here I was thinking he was just the kooky older guy on my tribe who didn't rub his sunscreen in all the way and was just kind of along for the ride and just enjoying himself. But really, it's a very intentional positioning strategy. One that I try to do as well, you know, I always think back to, I don't know if you've watched the office, but where they're doing the murder mystery,

and it's always the person you most medium suspect. Right. That's definitely something that was on my mind going into my season. And I really think she did a wonderful job of taking agency when she needed to and kind of leaving those breadcrumbs and that evidence along the way so that she's able to pull out the receipts at the end. And I thought she did a really tremendous job at that. And it's obviously not a one-to-one comparison, but it was definitely evocative for me when I heard her talking about that. I was like, okay. Yeah, like she really did kind of set the table for herself really nicely. Yeah. Yeah. And season 43 kind of like known for this idea that so many of these tall poppies like you mentioned kind of go out in order, right? They make themselves such big threats that are public threats that they're very easy for a consensus vote for everybody else who's trying to figure out where is my spot at the end. And so we kind of see that here with season 50. And like you mentioned, what Aubrey kind of does here with her positioning.

I do believe her best move of the game, the best thing that she does is that separation from that middle. We sort of see this kind of evolution where one second Aubrey is ride or die with Rick Devin's and Christian. And then next thing you know, she's just kind of in with Jonathan and Joe, which I do think is pretty savvy social work on her part. And recognizing early on what the viable win condition for her was and then finding her way to get there. Yeah, and recognizing at the end that she knew she wasn't really one of them. I thought that was pretty observant of her at the end to say, like, yes, I've been working with them, but I know I'm not like in the inner circle. And so I don't know if that gave her a little extra fire at that final challenge or whatever, but I thought she was very aware of her

positioning basically the whole game. Yeah. And fantastic, like, what a, what a clutch performance by Aubrey in this final challenge to. I saw some motion. I said, oh, she's cooked. You know, like we're going against. these dudes in here we come to find out. Oh, no, Aubrey actually owns Sumotion. She bought one off at sea. She was practicing. I loved the line from her that, like, yeah, there, there's a lot of luck involved in Survivor. I think she has a ton of luck go her way on season 50 here to survive many spots where she otherwise would have gone home and she's not in this end game otherwise. She has luck go her way at the final five challenge where, hey, one second difference and she is eliminated because she didn't win that challenge. And yet, Jonathan just huge for 10 more seconds. Right. Like, and can you take advantage of luck, though? That is a big thing with survivor players.

And Aubrey takes advantage of some of her lucky spots to get in this end game position herself. And then knowing she needed it, knowing that, you know, her game was on the line. She did the preparation and did the homework, as Jonathan would say, to end up prevailing over these guys at the final four and get herself to the end. But, Owen, I want to talk a little bit about final. tribal council because to me this final tribal stood out. And it stood out because this felt like the jury was making the case for their preferred candidates more so than the candidates for making their own case. I mean, we see Stephanie, Chrissy very clearly going to war for Jonathan.

Tiffany, Surrey, very clearly going to war for Aubrey. You see like Rick Devinson D or kind of the mediators somewhere in between. But I almost felt like I was at Ponderosa watching this group of people bicker about who they decided to win the game. And they're trying to sort it out amongst themselves in real time. Did you feel that way too? I did and I didn't. I mean, at first, it felt so novel to me that I at first was just like, oh my God, this is awesome. Like I really respect and appreciate when people are like riding for their people and like going to bat for their friends.

And there's something I do really appreciate about that. But I was reading on chat BCC. I saw Drew Bacil was not a big fan of this. He was saying like this was too much too far. So I do think there's maybe a line. And I remember feeling that way at my final tribal, not to always bring it back to my experience. But I just remember Noel was really trying to go to bat for me. And I appreciated it.

But I also was like, I got this. Like I can speak for myself. I can answer. So I'm sure there's a bit of mixed feelings from the finalist in that, in that instance. But I don't know. I do hope, you know, my optimistic brain wants me to go to this jury of all people who have played two, three, four times, five times for three. You know, they are not as into the idea of we need to make the quote unquote right decision. You know, I want to make the decision for myself that I feel the best about.

And so I do think, yes, they were. going to bat for their people and they were really trying to make their argument and give their preferred candidate the space to shine. But I don't know if it necessarily was coming from a place of necessarily like wanting a consensus per se, if that makes sense. Like I do think there's some just kind of like the the whole process of it not being like a group decision or not wanting to vote wrong. I don't I don't think that necessarily maybe cross the mind of these people. Whereas I do think I've heard that, you know, in some of the juries in the 40s, people have a hesitation of not wanting to look foolish or not wanting to, you know, stand out in a bad way for like,

oh, you voted for that person, you know, so I do think there's some fear sometimes maybe the first time you play. And I don't know how big it is, but I do think that this cast just felt really strongly about their people. And I also, you mentioned this earlier, but really shout out to Emily for making sure Joe felt seen. I remember Gabe on your season did the same for Sue and made sure she felt like she had opportunities to speak because speaking from experience, it really is not super fun when you're clearly the third choice there and you're just watching other two people have a conversation. So I do respect Emily, even more than I already did, for making sure she was in tune with

Joe and how much he was given the opportunity to talk there. Yeah, I do believe, like you said, I think, you know, 40s. there is this kind of stigma around like, can you reach a consensus? People often don't vote their conscience because they want to vote with the majority. I think one of the beautiful things about season 50 and this cast and casting returning players in general, it's a lot of people with real conviction. This is a lot of people that, that, you know, stand on business and, you know, that means that they will go to war for their people. I will say, I don't love this. And the reason I don't love this is, you know, as I'm sure you and I both feel, but necessarily can't speak to, jurors do not

know everything. They do not know the full picture. And I think a big part of Final Tribal Council for a player that's sitting there is to paint the full picture for the jury and kind of tell them things through your eyes. Tell your story, whether that's your narrative, as we kind of see with Aubrey here in this Final Tribal Council, whether it's your gameplay. and your intentionality or even just your self-awareness, which I think Joe does a very good job of throughout this final tribal council. And what I struggle with is that those are things that a jury that's bickering at Ponderosa and predetermining the outcome of a final tribal council at Ponderosa,

they can't know those things. They can't know those things until you're sitting there in those stools and telling it to them. And so I did, you know, who knows what it was like behind the scenes and a, you know, multiple hour final tribal council. but from at least what we saw, I feel like I got more reasoning about why Stephanie, Chrissy and Tiffany and Surrey wanted their respective candidates to win more than I got what Jeff said going into Final Tribal, which is claim your victory. I do believe out of the three candidates that Aubrey certainly claims her victory the most

and seems to get it. I think that also comes from experience as being a multiple-time juror and somebody who sat in the Final Tribal Council seats before. Joe has as well, but this was Jonathan's first crack at it. Yeah. And I think you made a really good point. Aubrey has had the benefit of both being a juror and being a finalist. Because you know, you and I can talk all day about what we think the jury is doing at Ponderosa when we're still in the game and we're getting ready for final tribal, but neither of us

have experienced it. But her having that perspective of both losing at a final tribal and serving on a jury, that is just experience. That is just so beyond what Joe or Jonathan can, can, do because Jonathan, he was a juror, but not a finalist, and then Joe was a finalist, not a juror. And yeah, it is so different. But no, I think you're right. I do think looking back, I thought the questions themselves were very good and fair and felt like gave potential for the candidates to kind of illuminate their gameplay, but it did seem like it started getting off the rails.

I think Jonathan didn't, or they didn't show Jonathan answering the question about the critique. Oh, no, he ended up doing it. But they were, they had to. this long meandering discussion in the intermediary. It reminded me of clock tower when we're in the middle of a nomination and the town just starts, well, I got this information the other night. And you're like, can we stay on topic, please? And so I felt bad that, you know, Emily's question got hijacked a little bit and that people clearly wanted to make sure they were saying their piece. So, yeah, ultimately, I think it was a little too far in that direction. But I thought they did ask good questions and it was it's felt fair and i think obri did have the best performance i really thought

i was kind of like trying to keep score as we went through um and like who answered the best like i thought obri answered the adaptation uh question the best just talking about how what we had discussed before when she jumped ship on christian and devons and emily um i thought she really was poised i thought she wove a narrative whereas the guys, you know, they did a solid job, but they just aren't as verbose as Aubrey is. You know, I think there definitely is an element of tribal in general, but particularly final tribal that feels like a performance. And that's something that if I'm being honest, I still beat myself up about a little bit,

just because I feel like I am a good public speaker and I know how to tell a story and I do it at work. And it's hard to lock in at final tribal. So I really, and I mean, you did such a killer job, Sam. Like, your final tribal was excellent. And I thought she did a really nice job, like performing what she was saying, but also making it make sense and taking in the perspectives of the jurors. And I thought it was just killer all around. One of the things that I think is really prevalent here, if we're going to break down and critique a little bit, I do have an interesting question debate about final tribal itself for you in a moment.

But if we're just going to break down Jonathan's final tribal and, you know, we just look at these two. if we just put Joe aside for a minute and say, what, you know, what is the difference between the, well, you know, they, they, I thought he handled himself pretty well, and then Surrey got up and it was, it was a nail in the coffin. It was pretty clear from there if Surrey's talking to you like that.

But just if we look at Jonathan versus Aubrey and what they said at Final Tribal Council, now I don't know if any of it would have actually made a difference, if there was anybody whose votes were actually up in the air that Jonathan could have had. based on the way this played out. But I do think one thing that I think he missed is the listening, the listening aspect of it, of hearing what these people wanted.

Because two things. You mentioned adaptability. They clearly valued adaptability. I got to say, Aubrey's the only one who actually answered the question. Adaptability is not how you played differently from last time. it's how you adapted over the course of this game. Aubrey's answer about switching alliances was an accurate answer that showed adaptability in her game more so than Jonathan's saying, I didn't want to be the big strong guy.

I think that's point number one. And then number two that I already touched on is when Christian very clearly lays out to you that it is narrative warfare, that's time to tell your story. That is time to paint a picture. You know, we talk about this all the time of a winner is so much more than a winner. It's a representative of your season. It's the person who's going to get the winners at it, who's going to get the main focus of the season from an edit and narrative standpoint. And especially in a cast of returning players where egos are at a premium, you need to be aware

of the fact that your story needs to sound pretty damn deserving to them, not just while I was really active in my gameplay. So I think Jonathan played a fantastic game. I really think you could give him all the props in the world for what he did on his way to the final three. I think he actually did a good job of talking about that game and owning that game at this final three in a way that surprised me. But there was an element of it that was that was missing to a jury who was clearly looking for a more, you know, full, yeah, like full story. Yeah, he was like a grotto toss to a day.

Yeah. You know, it's just a, yeah, full-serreys. kind of story. And I think Aubrey's felt full circle and right and correct to a lot of these jurors in a way that Jonathan's didn't and didn't really hit home. Yeah, I completely agree with you regarding Jonathan playing a really good game. He impressed me a lot, honestly. And I remember hearing in preseason talking about how he, you know, has formed this bond with Boston Rob because they both live in the Alabama, Florida Panhandle area and they hang out all the time. And he's been learning from him. I'm surprised he didn't talk about that in the question about that final question.

about Christian, you know, changing your story. Because when he started talking about working out and balance and stuff in talking about how he prepared, I was like, oh, brother, no, this is your chance to really sell that you've, like, studied at the feet and you put your ego alive. He gave him the whole thing on how he's not the, I'm not just the physical guy. And what's your story? He's like, well, I got even better at challenges. I worked harder than anyone.

You were already the hard worker. You're in the best shape of anyone we've ever seen on this show. Like, no, tell them how you put your ego away and said, hey Boston Rob, I'd love to learn from you. You're so good at the things that I am not. And I understand maybe if he did say it and they didn't air it. But I think there's an opportunity there for him to talk about the more social and strategic side of his game, which I thought he did really well.

I thought him throwing Steph under the bus and just planting that little lie that set off that reaction. Great move on his part. And he did get to talk about it. But I mean, that's something that the old Jonathan wouldn't have done. And I think to your point about it being full circle, I think Jonathan really needed to pump it because here's a question for you. Inherently, is Aubrey at more of an advantage over Joe and Jonathan because she has a bigger circle? This is her fourth time that the narrative arc is already going to be potentially more satisfying just in that regard.

Did they really need to knock it out of the park for a two-time player to even stand a chance from the narrative warfare perspective? A hundred percent. And I think Tiffany put it brilliantly when we see her kind of floundering at the final five looking for a reason not to go home. And she pitches this idea. She actually says, I think I have the exact quote in here, that they have known her for years and would like to rectify the injustices that came against her in Corrong. I don't personally believe it was an injustice.

I'm a Michelle Fitzgerald Stan and truther to my core. But, you know, Aubrey acknowledges that, that some people say, hey, she was robbed. Some people say, hey, it was the social game. Either way, it's a topic. And, you know, I remember the most moved I've ever been by Aubrey Brocko on Survivor is at the end of Edge of Extinction when she is eliminated. And it actually might even be the first time that, when Rick Devons returns to the game. But she kind of just gives the speech about how, how much the game means to her and how she was coming out here to do all these things. And yet, it's her worst performance yet and she falls short.

And I find it to be very moving. But I think for all of those reasons, a jury's going to find it moving too. And she has a story and she has people that she's known for years. And she has more of a full circle conversation than just like, well, that's what I did this time and here's how I pivoted it. It feels like a lifetime, even if it's only what 10 years since she first played Survivor, it feels like a lifetime that she's given to this game.

And I think Tiff had a great point in saying that is an advantage at Final Tribal Council. I think there are people on that jury who don't care what game Aubrey played. The fact that she's sitting there will get them, we'll get her their vote. And she was dead on. But we'll have to talk about some of that decision. But I definitely think it's a factor for a jury and something that players maybe should have considered more. Yeah, I 100% agree. And I think now is a good time to start segueing away from.

final tribal and into that Final Five discussion just because, I mean, I think that the headline for final tribal to me is just like the jury was on fire. Like they were really active. They were, they were in there. They were going about for their people. And I respect that. But I do wish the finalist had a little bit more voice. And, you know, we both know, this thing's like two, three hours long. Like they, I'm sure they talked plenty. But Aubrey really rose to the occasion. I thought she weaved such a great narrative. Jonathan and Joe did great, I thought, solid, but they really would have needed to, like, spin this beautiful tail in order to stand a chance. And so that brings us to the question of, like, how big of a screw up was not voting out Aubrey at five? Like, is that

the game losing move? Is that, like, are they going to lose to Tiff anyway? Like, who wins in a Rizzo Joe Jonathan final three? I think all these hypotheticals are going to be interesting to talk about here. Yeah. So I guess let's go back. Let's walk through the episode real quick. Chronologically, we see five players. They come back from voting out. Saree. Tiffany is hot. And Tiffany is electric. May I add? She's at her best like this. You just need to piss Tiffany off and you get amazing TV. So she's so good. Joe is kind of on his typical high horse saying that, oh, I think that's very childish of Tiffany to act that way. I kind of forgot this was a side note that I made that Aubrey made fire in Co-Rong until it was brought up.

I totally had forgotten that. It's pre-fire era or pre-fire era. And so it just kind of slips the mind as being like, oh, yeah, she did have to do that and is experienced in that regard. I guess beat Sydney then, yeah. Yeah. And so then we do hear from Aubrey where I think, you know, regardless of your feelings, you do have to say, this is the third time. She has made the final five. She says she must be doing something right.

that is for sure. That's not by accident. There's luck that goes into Survivor. You do it that many times. You look at the body of work. She definitely has a good feel for the game and her own perception and all that stuff. Yeah, Aubrey Brock. Confirmed to go to Survivor, for sure.

Newsflash here on the know-it-alls. Yeah, breaking. We do get this final three. So Rizzo Joe Jonathan seemed to have locked in a final three. They say it is going to be one of Tiffany or Aubrey, depending on who wins and who loses. And oh boy, was Tiffany so close. Maybe the closest challenge I can remember with this high of stakes,

especially in the final four firemaking era, where this gets Tiffany very realistically is a $2 million half second difference between her and Jonathan here on this. Very well could have been. The only one that I can think is as close is Heroes v. Villains. Jerry in the blindfolded maze. I think she was standing right there. That's really, what, 30 seasons ago?

Right. That's the last time that I can recall something so close. I guess Ben and Chrissy with the upside down you, but of course then there's the dubious introduction of fire there. So that one might have an answer. Yeah, great point in the chat to the Kagyan final three. Oh, yes, with Wu and Cass. Yes.

With Wu and Cass. The only difference there is that Wu winning the challenge, actually loses him the game, where if Cass wins the challenge, she takes Wu and Wu probably keeps Cass. So, yeah, kind of an interesting. But yeah, thank God he's so chill or else that would keep him up at night. Two million dollar, maybe half second on one piece. But Jonathan does win. He does the worm. He screams really loud. I've got no issues with the celebration. Here's what I'll say about this round because Tiffany goes home in a unanimous vote here. I thought the editing was a little bit wacky here, Owen. I thought, well, I feel like we

got this story of Tiffany is pitching her case to Joe and Jonathan. Seems like they're genuinely considering it. Then we sort of show up to tribal and it's just like, oh yeah, Tiffany's going home everybody knows it yada yada oh and she had this really human moment at the challenge that i guess we didn't see uh because it her reaction seemed pretty normal uh didn't seem like worth talking about so this this was odd editing it's like they they were trying to show us a carrot of hey maybe there's a different vote here but then they dropped the bit once we got the tribal council yeah i wonder if they just feel like obligated to do that it's like we need to present two targets and like present a plan but to to be fair it wasn't in confessional

when Jonathan said to Joe, like, she makes some pretty good points. Like, he said that in conversation with Joe. So you got to think they were at least thinking about it. But yeah, I thought that that was strange that, like, you know, Tiffany, you had such a big reaction. Like, no, she felt like she lost the game there. Like, God forbid she's sad. Like, she was upset that she lost an immunity challenge. Yeah, that was a weird.

A weird one. That was a bit weird. So the question here, right, is, is. is it a mistake? Do they make a mistake here? Because Tiffany makes all of these points that we've mentioned, hey, lifetime achievement award for Aubrey,

if she makes it to the end. I have a more similar story to you. I don't think it's a mistake to take out Tiffany over Aubrey. I actually think it's the right call by Jonathan specifically, if I'm going to look at it from his lens as the second placeer here,

because the calculation is pretty simple. who can you beat in that final immunity? And, you know, if you're a betting man, if you're Jonathan or if you're a viewer at home, you'd think Tiffany gives him a better fight at final immunity and firemaking than Aubrey potentially does. So I don't think he was delusional into believing he could necessarily beat Aubrey at the end. But I think he's betting, hey, who can I beat in this challenge? These last two challenges, really, yeah. Right, yeah. And I mean, well, he's already in one of these two challenges,

right? Like, can I beat somebody in fire? Can I beat somebody in immunity? Tiffany has shown to be the challenge beast of this season. Aubrey has not shown it yet this season. You make that bet. It turns out to be a bad bet because Aubrey has practiced some motion and she keeps your butt at it. But I don't have an issue with this decision from Jonathan. Yeah. I think you're right. I think, and Tiff touched on this in her pitch, which I thought was the best she could do. She had very few cards to play. I think maybe one thing that may not have come up, but I think maybe trying to pitch the idea that, like, she talked about Aubrey's arc, but really reminding them,

it's like, we are all peers, like two-time players, like there are jurors that I think, it's clear, like hearing some of the way certain players who have played 39 days speak about the new era, they don't respect it in the same way,

or they feel like it's just a different experience, which is valid. They're entitled to their opinion, but I do think pitching the idea that like all four of us are on equal footing when it comes to that element of the jury. And maybe she did. But I really think that that could have been an extra card she could have played. But she had such an uphill battle.

I mean, I really felt like she was just totally dead in the water. And she made a really compelling pitch. My question to you, and this will speak to, I'm sure we'll touch on this later about Rizzo. But could Rizzo, is there a world where Rizzo plays as idle for Tiffany? and does something to make a flashier move. And I'm not saying he necessarily has to, but do you think that's totally crackpot? Or do you think, I just worry for him that, like,

people might not, like, like to me, playing an idol when you don't need to, that would kind of fall flat a little bit. Because for better or for worse, the jury is cooped up at Ponderosa all day, and they're like, they're clamoring for some excitement. You know, I remember Edge of Extinction in particular. It felt like that jury was just like on the edge of their seats

ready to pop at any moment for something even moderately exciting. So is there something at least just from like the entertainment value perspective that could have been a reason for him to pull a move there? Well, Billy Elish actually has something to say about that because the Billy Elish idol is only allowed to be played on yourself. Now I will say that's right. Even if this is a regular idol, I don't know only because again, I think it comes back to what we said earlier on, which is the win condition for so many of these players is the

the same. Jonathan can't sit next to Aubrey or Tiffany. And so for Jonathan, voting out Tiffany makes sense because you have a better chance of beating Aubrey at immunity and fire. He doesn't get it done. He comes up short in the challenge. I think if you're Rizzo, there's a real win condition against Jonathan and Joe. And so, you know, letting that go and then thinking, hey, if one of these guys beats Aubrey and takes Aubrey out, I can sit with the two guys at the end. that maybe have some enemies and make a real case here. So I just feel like it was in everybody's best interest for Tiff to go besides Tiff. So I don't have an issue with it.

And then obviously one of the other, I suppose, negatives of this Billy Elish boomerang idol is that it desentivizes flashy plays like this late in the game. You can only play it for yourself. I had totally forgotten about that. So thank you, chat, for getting me back on track there. But yeah, I mean, what a flop of an advantage. I mean, I'm sure you, especially as a fellow 47er, must be so mad for Genevieve. She found two of these things.

I'm certainly upset for Genevieve. I will say, like, I think any of these advantages, they're very results oriented in how we view them. I get what they're going for with the Billy Elish Idol. I think if you give it to somebody, then blindside that person and get the idol back as a secret on a season where all advantages are public. Like, it's brilliant and it's amazing TV. It just so happens to kind of like, land with, you know, it doesn't, not really land with anybody at home. And it's inconsequential to the game across the board.

Maybe this is what fans wanted all along when we say, less advantages, no idols. Well, yeah, the idols didn't really play a major factor into the game here besides whatever Rick Devons was doing. But yes, they do end up voting out Tiffany. We see this final four emerge. Another intense challenge. And best emotion ever.

You can't say, yeah, best emotion ever. You can't say enough good things about what Aubrey did. Clutch to the bone in this challenge. So, so clutch. And then I think my favorite part of the episode is Aubrey's reaction to the challenge. A couple of words, she said. I didn't think this would ever happen for me again. There's a lot there.

And that in and of itself, I think for you and for me, holds a lot of serious weight and like intensity behind it because I think anybody who has been where we've been and has been where Aubrey has been has this emotional longing for, you know, that another chance to sit at that final tribal and be like, what if I would have said this differently or done this differently? And yet you can't help but feel like I blew it. You know, it's so hard to play the game. It's so hard to get to the end. And you get to the end. And, and you might be disappointed with the outcome. And it's like, well, even if I do get to play again,

what are the odds of me actually getting there? And I understand it's this compounding anxiety that must have been eating away at her for 10 years here. And you kind of see all of that weight come off of her shoulders. Maybe not even because she believes, hey, I'm going to win the game, right, as she wins that immunity.

But it's just that feeling of like, I did it. I made it back to the end where I've longed to get back to that I found to be a really cool and powerful moment for Aubrey after what was a badass performance in this challenge. Yeah, I mean, beautifully said, Sam. I mean, it really is like, you got to think after Edge of extinction, she very well could have thought her career in Survivor was over, you know? Yeah, why wouldn't you at that point? Yeah, she's like, I did so well the first time. I did pretty well the second time, and now I've done horribly this third time horribly and probably how she

would self-talk in that way. I know I would if that happened to me. Um, so yeah, and the rumor has that she was an alternate for the season or got a call very, very late in the process. So she's probably already thinking like, oh my God, this was such an unlikely scenario to unfold that I'm even here. And now I made the end game. And I've won this final challenge. And now I'm about to go to final tribal and plead my case again and like, heal this 10 year old wound that I have. Oh my, just like seeing it wash over her. Like this is what the show is about. You know, like, yes, we love the strategy. We love the moves. We love analyzing the game. But like the human moments that, that, that that emerge from these situations that you don't find yourself in in regular life are just beautiful to watch. And I agree, like, I mean, you more than me in terms of like feeling like you were closer than I probably felt I was close at final tribal. But like, it eats at you. You know, you always think about like, what if this, what if that? Could I have done two or three things differently? I hope I have the chance to try to prove myself because then you build up this head cannon of like, if I just got another chance, I know I could figure it out.

And they're all feeling that, right? And I think that's what's so compelling about returnee seasons. But yeah, I thought it was beautiful. And I think, do you think she thought she won the game? I think I'm inclined to thinking that she thought she won the game at that moment, which there's no goodness described to that. But I think she felt a sense of relief like, I think I got this in the bag now. You know, I think if it was anybody else, I would say yes.

But I think Aubrey has felt like she had it in the bag. before and lost. And so I do think that there is a, you know, a hesitancy, I guess, to trust your gut. And, you know, she might feel like she wins this and she's like, I can sit next to any of these guys and win. And she feels good about it. But I do think there's something eating in her mind, of course, of like, did I do it again? Did I misread somebody's threat level again? Did I completely get this wrong and, like, not have the social game again? That you don't really see. I don't think she fully realized in that moment, no, that she had it. And I think it probably was something that was made aware of her.

Not until after she got off final tribal council and talked to people and realized, I got all these votes and all these friends and whatnot, that it probably hit her that she won. Yeah, she's a humble and anxious enough person to probably not her, not let her brain go there in that moment. And as we see with so many people on this season in this episode, the PTSD is real even if you don't think it is. Even if you feel like, oh, I've gotten over this.

We hear Jonathan talk about firemaking in season 42 saying, I didn't realize it was this big of a deal to me until right now, here I am. And I'm like freaking out about it a little bit. And he realizes, like, oh, no, I am still carrying something from this. So let's get into this fire decision a little bit. I was very curious to what Aubrey was going to do here. And yet we kind of out of nowhere. Hear her.

Band-Aid off. Well, and just two weeks ago or one week ago or whatever it was, Aubrey is talking about the man, the myth, the legend, R-I-Z-G-O-D, Riz God, Baby, as somebody she wants to sit next to at the end. Not so much anymore, not so much now that it is very real. And I actually think this is a great call by Aubrey for a couple of reasons. Joe and Jonathan, both sitting there at the end, limits one jury vote that was going to the other guy. Joe goes to that jury. Jonathan goes to that jury. That vote is not going to Aubrey

regardless. And she does end up getting Rizzo's vote. But then she says a couple of things saying that she believes that her and Rizzo have a similar story to kind of underdogs that she feels like can really speak well to their game at Final Tribal Council. She feels like his game is the most similar to hers and wants to create some disparity. How did we feel about this thinking? I don't disagree with the thinking. I think I more disagree with the label of it. I don't know if I would describe them necessarily as underdogs,

more so as like playing the middle really well and like playing both sides. So I don't know exactly how I would describe that. But no, Rizzo to me felt like he was in that power position with Ozzy and Surrey for most of the game there. I mean, he played so well. And I really think he would have had a chance towards the end. I know there's like things you can say about his age or like the way. And especially like he presents a bit younger than he actually is.

And like the question of like would they give $2 million to him or whatever. But like he really played masterfully. Just the way that he was able to get in with everyone and like flip their opinion on him. I mean, we're going back to episode one, Colby can't stand him in the first half an hour. And then by the end it's like he's his son, you know? So, yes, I think there was something to that, to where if we're going back to Christian's narrative warfare postulation, they could have a similar story. And most intimidatingly about Rizzo, just like the way he can talk. The kid is a show.

You know, he's such a performer. He's like, she hasn't even seen all but 15 seconds of a confessional from him. But you know, he's got just, his brain works so fast and he's able to, like, vocalize things really well. and I'd be afraid to get into an argument with him and try to argue in front of a jury against him. I think Joe and Jonathan, as good of guys as they are and as well as they did, that wouldn't come to mind in the same way as being intimidated by Rizzo's poise and, you know, just skill in that department. I really would have been interested in seeing what Rizzo, Joe, Jonathan looked like from a jury perspective

because there seemed to be a lot of people against that Joe Jonathan, contingent here. Obviously, we've seen that, hey, some people were annoyed with Rizzo, but it was a lot of, you know, the same people that were voting for Joe and Jonathan anyway. So I'm not sure he gets those votes. The big thing for Rizzo to me would have been, because I do believe he's fighting an uphill battle just from an age and narrative standpoint because people haven't seen your story. They're not invested in your story.

And Aubrey is an easy person for people to be invested in her story because they've seen her play three times. I wonder what Surrey does. And I wonder, you know, as influential as Surrey was in the game, I think she's probably equally as influential as a jury member. And I think there's a lot of people who probably look to Surrey and hey, Siri, where are you voting? And they want to vote similarly to her. So if Rizzo goes to the end with Aubrey and actually has the seal of approval from Surrey of, hey, this kid was playing the game, man. And here's what he did. And and I saw it firsthand because I was doing it with him. I wonder.

It's a hell of an endorsement. I wonder how many votes that gets him. And I do think, like you said, we see in this confessional leading up to fire and we see at tribal council here before and after fire, Rizzo telling his story. And we see exactly what Aubrey was scared about because he has a way of telling a really, really cool story that invests you. And if you're a fan of the game and if you've ever dreamed about, you know, going

and playing Survivor, it's something that probably hits home for you of telling yourself that you can do it. And thinking about the crazy whirlwind that Rizzo has been on. Yes, he doesn't have the same history as some of these other players. But the simple fact that, hey, two months ago, I was a fan. And now I am, you know, a two-time player, possibly sitting at final tribal council of Survivor 50, that is a unique,

cool story that nobody else can tell up there. And I think Aubrey does a good job of clocking this reality that Rizzo is scary for this reason. And then let's go ahead and get into I get, so,

Owen, you and I watched the episode before it was live. We watched this episode in its purest form without knowing what was going to happen going into fire. I would ask you a question about the buildup coming into fire and where we thought this was going to go. I thought they set it up. Great. I really did. And I'm curious, I've seen some people in the chat saying they set it up so well. And if people in the chat just say, did you think

Rizzo had a chance? Because I thought he had no chance. But then I thought the kids got a shot. Like there's a small shot here. Yeah, the thing that did it for me was of where I came back to not believing Rizzo could do it was when they went back to Jonathan. I feel like the move is show Jonathan, show how good he is, show how confident he is. It's very similar. The 47 edit for fire is very similar. They show me struggling with it, having a hard time, emotional about it. They show how good teen he is at fire.

And then they eventually show me getting fire. And that's how we go into tribal council is kind of this build up of like, I can't do this. I don't know what I'm doing, but maybe. And that's where they leave it. The minute they went back to Jonathan and we're like, oh, Jonathan is aware of the fact that Rizzo is suddenly good at fire. That's where I was like, okay, yeah, they're, you know, they're giving him a little bit too much of, uh, of self-awareness here. He didn't even go practice again or anything.

Yeah. Like, mental note, the kid, he's good. And yeah, I mean, when Jonathan makes the fire in confessional in 0.2 seconds, it's just like. Oh, that was cool, by the way. It was a switch. That was a switch shot. And I don't know if there's anybody that's ever played Survivor that that knocks out Jonathan in this fight. It was textbook in terms of what he did.

But there was no anticipation for the audience because we haven't really addressed the live finale portion here tonight. Jeff Probst made a little bit of an oopsie. I think probably a lot of people. A lot of a bit of a noopsy on this. Yeah. Oh, that was tough. 50 seasons of the show. They do it live.

Most of Survivor is live. I know it's pre-recorded, but like Jeff kind of just rips and doesn't do retakes. He goes in one go and he gets it down. I think that was one of the things I was most impressed about by him. No your piece, no nothing. He's just sending it. He just goes, we were bound to have a mistake at some point, but this was a pretty big one and very uncomfortable to watch play out live.

Rizzo doesn't know what to do. And he's just kind of like looking around. He sees like his mother, Surrey, like tapping like the stool. Like come sit down next to me, Rizzo. And he walks over there,

sits down. Surrey has to explain to Jeff what happened. Jeff, you didn't show firemaking yet. Second and embarrassment, but also, uh, we'll never forget it.

No. That was, that was an all time like moment in Survivor. And I mean, it's, it's real. It's funny. And I,

to his credit, I really thought Jeff recovered nicely, just like making a joke out of it, the joke later on about, do you want to watch it in order? Yeah, you just got to own it at that point. But I did feel bad. And I'm Rizzo, God bless his heart. He's really trying to sit there and just like,

like talk as as delicately as he can. Like, because he knows it hasn't been showed yet, but he doesn't know what Jeff is asking him. And they almost got away with it until Jeff goes, and you're the final juror. Go sit down. and then just the faces and the hush over the crowd and all. Just, it was delicious.

Yeah, you can't look away. It's a car crash, but you don't want to watch it, but you can't look away at the same time. Look, I think any kind of intense reaction one way or another is a little bit extreme to something like this. Mistakes happen even to the best in show business, which I do believe Jeff Probst to be. But yeah, it was.

not good. It was uncomfortable. It took all the air out of a firemaking challenge, which the entire purpose of the firemaking challenge is this really intense moment right before Final Tribal Council. Right. That's the whole thesis of it. Yeah. I guess, hey, we've wondered why they don't bring back the live finale. Why do

it in Fiji? Well, you know, do not expect the live for now finale for Survivor 51. That's all. Do you think this was an inside job, Sam? Do you think this was a thumb on the scale to keep it? They did this to save money on the open era, as we'll talk about here in a little bit.

But yeah, very uncomfortable, emotional exit for Rizzo that I thought was pretty cool and pretty deserved after two very intense and well-fought seasons for him. He has the same fate. And Joe, I mentioned, made history the only returning player to have a perfect final tribal council record. Joe, by the way, also the fewest votes received ever by a moment. multi-time finalist in survival history. One vote over two. Yeah.

Yeah. Rizzo, though, becomes the first ever fire-making loser. And then we roll into a family visit. Do you have anything on the family visit? I started crying, dude. I don't know about you, but that just caught me totally off guard. I had not heard a peep about this. You know, we're in the community.

People talk a little bit. but I had not heard anything regarding a family visit for 50, which, you know, you wish there would have been, and you wish there would have been earlier in the season, but I thought this was beautiful. Because, you know, that last day, yes, you're doing your final confessional, you're preparing for final tribal, all of that.

But there is a lot more downtime, relatively speaking, and just for them to get that emotional boost, that piece of home going into final tribal, I thought it was really beautiful. Nice gesture. Shout out Fiji Airways or whoever thought of this, but it's, yeah, it totally, me by surprise because I'm like I actually it really caught me off guard because they did some

sort of dramatic music sting when they cut to the boat I'm like it's just breakfast in that boat what's so dramatic about like three different cuts of bacon but then you see there's like six people in there I thought it was really cool I liked it a lot I'm I'm a sap for that kind of thing though but I enjoyed it yeah I liked it less I would say I didn't hate it I'm just I don't know if I needed it to be taking up airtime in the finale I get what else are you going to show it I say it's better than, you know, the typical breakfast montage that we get where they just, like, reflect on their journey. I do think this is better than that. But when we all pull for, hey, where's the family visit? I don't know. I don't think this is exactly what people had in mind. Then we kind of get

set up with the jury. And we kind of hear what I think is, is the overall description of three players games from the eyes of the jurors. And Aubrey is described as lowering her threat level, staying under the radar, and peaking late. Jonathan is kind of the mover of the group. He's the one actively making moves happen. And then Joe, much to my surprise, I think to yours and to a lot of viewers and jurors, says, hey, I lied to people.

I betrayed people. I think the real disconnect for Joe actually, surprisingly. isn't the honor and integrity thing because I think he does a great job of owning that. It's more managing his emotions and some of the emotional outbursts that we saw that made jurors feel like he was a little bit more of an unsurious game player. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I really was proud.

It seems so like patronizing. But I was really glad to see Joe say that and own it and say like, this was my pitch. This is how I disarmed them in the first half of the game. And then I had to do what I had to do. I didn't like it. And I respect that he says and owns that he didn't like it. Because it's clear Joe is a very empathetic person. And I appreciated the way even at Final Tribal,

he talked about how his relationship with Eva, while it was like intuitive for him and he wanted to do it and he enjoyed doing it, I did appreciate him admitting that he felt it backed him into a corner. And I didn't take that as a dig at Eva or anything like that. But it was a cool, I guess, insight into his head of like he, he is aware that like now that I'm this guy I have to be this guy and and to everyone who has ever seen me play this is my brand now and um then how do you weaponize it it's just it's hard and I can I can empathize with Joe in that it's hard for him and it's uncomfortable for him

and he didn't sound comfortable talking about it the same way Aubrey was able to weave her narrative but I appreciate that he did speak it into existence and acknowledge, like, this is what I had to do and I did it. And he could have maybe sold it a touch better. But, like, I was happy that, you know, it felt at least for a moment, like, it wasn't a total, like, regard, like, just unimportant actor in the final chapter there. Yeah, the only thing that I would say I think is missing for Joe. For me, number one is I wish we would have seen this.

earlier on. We got a story from Joe early. Hey, I'm going to do this differently. I'm picking up on this. I got burned by Kyle and Camilla. And I'm not going to let that happen again. So I'm picking up on more things. That version of Joe I lean forward for. I'm interested in seeing how he plays the game. This version of Joe that we see tonight that is, you know, saying, hey, yeah, I lied. I knew that people were going to think I'd be telling the truth. So I lied to people. I betrayed some people because I knew that's what it would take to get to the end. And if I played the other way, it wouldn't work. The only thing, the only other thing I think is missing, obviously, is some of that narration in between to see how he was intentionally playing the game along the way with that in mind.

Because I think, you know, if that's missing in how you describe it to the jury, it doesn't necessarily describe your actions. It might, it might tell them your overall philosophy, but does it describe why you did what you did. And, you know, that's the other part I feel like is missing here for Joe is there, I don't know if he does a good job at showing it how this action led to good gameplay. Emily Flippin describes it better than Joe does himself. But, you know, but I do think it's a difference if Joe says, hey, I know you guys thought I was emotional.

I know you guys thought I was loyal. But guess what? I was lying. I was doing all that on purpose. and guess what I got out of it? Here's what I got out of it. And here's how I was able to run the game and get here. That's a pitch right there.

But there's an element missing for Joe. Yeah. And I think you hit the nail on the head. And it takes it back to Final Tribal, where Surrey brings up the jotation. And the lack of selling the middle part leaves the jury with this perception that these moves are just happening around him.

And he is just begrudgingly going along with them versus actively. acknowledging that they are good for his game and being excited about the move to happen, even though it might be personally painful. I think there's a difference, right? You think about, obviously, my brain immediately goes to Jesse taking out Cody. You can tell it hurt Jesse to do that. He did not want to do that.

He didn't want to vote out NECA earlier in the season, but nobody has the impression of Jesse that he's, he's, you know, honor and integrity, like passive player, right? He's owning it. Even if it is uncomfortable, he's still taking the bowl by the horn. horns and sending the wave, right? Versus for Joe, I think the impression that people got is that they almost had to ask permission in fear of how he would react if he found out later. And I think if he had maybe left more of a, I talked about this with Aubrey, a trail

of breadcrumbs that he could point back to that would have served him better at the end. So an improvement for sure. And I think the chat wanted us to also mention Michelle Fitzgerald. also made the finals two times. But to do it in the span of a year, without that perspective. Hang on, we got to take a minute to say that's on me

because as a resident self-proclaimed Michelle Stan, the unacceptable erasure of Michelle Fitzgerald. Pre-COVID. Time is weird. It's okay. I forgive you. I got to own a toe. I'm going to beat myself up over that one.

It's okay. I thought the result could have played his idol for someone else. So we each have a little oopsie. but not as bad as the live finale. But I think Joe, to his credit, like, you know, how long do you feel like you've like fully, like, been able to zoom out on your survivor experience yet? Because Joe's played twice in the span of a year, you know?

Yeah, from what lens, I guess? Like, just to be able to, like, really almost like sever the emotional, like, ties from it and look at it a bit more objectively and look at the whole experience of production and the whole rigum roll, like from a third person perspective in a way, I think that is damn near impossible to do in the span of just one year. So for Joe to, you know, he obviously didn't seal the deal. But I want to give him his flowers in that he acknowledged this thing about himself and that it was personally uncomfortable and he was able to make some adjustment to it without the benefit

of time that some of these other people have had to really reflect on it. So I think it's really hard. I feel like I wasn't fully, like, lucid in my analysis of my own game for at least two years, you know, and it takes a lot. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I would like to think so. But I will say when I look back on Survivor 47, the more that I dive into some of those things, like the behind the scenes, the production, the more memories that I kind of unlock, I think the more emotion comes out of it.

I do think you gain perspective, but I also think that reality starts to blur itself with the version of reality that you've told yourself and it becomes very difficult to kind of reconcile, which I think is kind of why we see in this season, so many players, again, going back to just like returning as a whole, I think it's fascinating because I think we always see players who come away from their game, either winning or not winning, they think they know why.

And yet what we learn is that so often they don't. And the real cause for why you didn't win can be very difficult to identify. It can be very difficult to actually come to terms with. I feel like I've gained a lot of perspective since my season. But I also feel like I am absolutely still harboring like emotion and you know upset feelings if I really get into it um about what could have been it still definitely eats away and I'm sure it absolutely does for Joe too I don't think he has had enough time to fully come to terms with how he's perceived how he was perceived on survivor 48 with what he could have done differently um and then just to give Aubrey flowers again one thing that she does super super super well is identify

why she lost, own the fact that she lost, be willing to make the changes necessary to adapt to a winning game, even if, by the way, this winning game probably isn't the winning game that Aubrey would have thought for herself. You know, like Aubrey is this neurotic, strategic player that we see come in to go wrong, and for her first season at least, is the strategic mastermind of her season. And when she probably envisioned all of these wins, it was probably always

you know, Aubrey masterminding the game behind the scenes, not this kind of like passive social game that we see her play here but she does adapt and she does do I guess, you know, maybe not something that's natural to her, but what is necessary to be sitting at the end here with people that she can beat.

Yeah, yeah. Once again, you're on fire tonight, Sam, just by the way. And thank you for sharing about your experience. Because yeah, it's a lot to unpack. And same for Jonathan. I mean, four years, it's definitely, you know, quadruple the time Joe had and a lot of time. And I thought he did a really nice job, too.

I think that's what I enjoyed most about this season. For all the issues I had with Billy Elish and Zach Brown and Jimmy Fallon and some of these twists and the blood moon and whatnot, like, ultimately, I find it so fascinating to watch people, you know, analyze these situations and wonder to themselves, was it what happened to me or is it me? You know, is it something I need to work on about myself or did I get unlucky or some combination of the two? You know, how much self-improvement do I need to do? How much do I need to just prepare more for the game itself? And it's just really interesting to see how people reckon with it. And I thought really all four of these finalists. And I mean, shout out Rizzo for doing it back to back.

Oh, man. You know, such as, you know, like, nine days. about like not having the ability to zoom out and like reconcile things with yourself. Rizzo going through it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, he's he's built for it. He's, I mean, I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person.

He said he's got a good head on his shoulders. And I mean, he's played such a great game both times. Like, fortunately for him, he didn't necessarily have as much like, like negative baggage in that way. Of course, he had the pain from losing. But it's really, I did. end up enjoying it a lot more. And I found myself laughing at myself because at the beginning of the episode, I was like, go Tiff, get Aubrey's ass, like stand on business. And then by the end, I'm like, good for Aubrey, man. Like, this is a really satisfying arc and conclusion. And,

and ultimately, like, it was a beautiful story. And, like, I don't know if injustice is how I would describe it with Go Rong either. But, like, it feels very poetic in a way that it wrapped up this way. Jonathan got some level of redemption. I do think even Joe got some level of redemption, even though he technically did worse. I think he probably feels proud. Yeah, he should. You know, I fully agree with that, that Joe gets some redemption here because I do think all of the things that we've seen with Joe, where you're frustrated by Joe as a viewer or players are frustrated by Joe, I think that we kind of see him redeem himself in many of those. ways here at the end at final tribal council in his confessionals i did of i will say the the family

visits i enjoyed joe's the most uh i thought the idea that you know his wife kind of comes out and uh gives him this freedom or this you know permission so to speak to like hey man go play man we're proud of you we don't care if you lie to anybody that it sort of creates this more free joe that i think would have been more fun to watch over the course of two full seasons. Yeah. Maybe he could have got that pep talk before he got on the plane. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Do that. Write that in the loved ones letters. Yeah. I hope he feels good about his performance because I do think he saw things about himself and thought about them critically and did well. He held his own at Final Tribal and that's all you can ask for is like, you know, he performed well. I don't know necessarily if we have a specific shot clock,

but I did want to ask you. We're still waiting on Rob from the red carpet. So we'll see. We'll see. We've got time. Do we think for sure Rizzo wins if he's in the final three instead of Aubrey? If it's the all guy final three. Because you got to think the people that voted for Jonathan still vote for Jonathan.

The coach, Chrissy, Steph. Steph was glazing, by the way. She was really a fan. It was hilarious that she goes on. Tiff gives her a, is this a question? It was not a question. She says, hang on, let me get to my question.

Did not ever ask a question. It was a full on glaze of Jonathan. So I don't know. Look, I don't know if it's a slam dunk for Rizzo. I do think it's a battle. I think really it comes down to the middle. Again, and I'm curious where they, go. I do think, you know, Rizzo has the vote of a Surrey and an Aussie. He might have some new era

love from a Tiff or even a D who he played with very tightly. Where do Emily Devons and Christian go? I think that is the big question. I think that they're probably deciding that final three. It's a really interesting final group, though. And I do think, good night for Rizzo all and all. Obviously, sad fate for him. you know, going out the same way he does in Survivor 49. But I think he showed to have some real win equity here at the end. Maybe not in all scenarios, but for a guy who just last week was being talked about as somebody people wanted to sit next to at the end, it seemed like there was a real wind path

had he been able to make that fire or, you know, had somebody else won immunity. Yeah, I think it would have been really interesting. And I forgot to ask you this earlier. Did you think Christian was like genuinely impressed by Jonathan when he, asked about the fighting Yeah, I did. I thought so was too. I thought so was too. And Gabby thought so. I asked her on the chat because she obviously knows Christian super well and I know some people thought he was being sarcastic, but I saw the wow and

then I saw the face. Yeah, Christian doesn't strike me as a guy who would be like go out of his way to be sarcastic to like dunk on somebody at Final Tribal, especially when did he really have a beef with Jonathan at any point. Was there a reason that he was going to specifically pick on Jonathan? It actually reminded me, this is going to be a weird deep cut. It reminds me of

the Ron Clark, Lauren O'Connell interaction and Edge of Extinction at the Final Tribal Council. If you remember when Chris Underwood is talking about getting Lauren to play the idol on her at the final five or final six, wherever it is, and Ron goes, wow, that's so

creative, Chris. How did you think of that? And he goes, well, it's actually called a double whatever. The double over the negative reverse. Yeah. And then and then he looks at Lauren and goes like, how did you fall for it? And she goes so stupid, right? And he was, yeah, it reads as an entirely phony. And then both of them vote for Chris at the end or at least Ron does. And apparently it was very genuine and real and not at all sarcastic. And maybe this is just the same. Yeah, so maybe Christian would have been a Jonathan boat in that world. Who knows? Speaking of Edge of Extinction, by the way, I did come away the real winner because I have

with me a signed photo of the war dog with me that I acquired at my watch party. Oh, I was about to add, do you keep that in your blazer at all times and just I will from now on. I acquired it tonight, but it's going to be, I'm going to have a little war dog shrine. Yeah, that's one for the mandol. You know, a little war dog shrine for sure. Yeah. And then Tiff, if Tiff gets to the end, I feel like she takes it home.

I do. Yeah, I think Tiff, Tiff has kind of like this funny enough that she's got this Kenzie. You know, like she won the challenges. She just has so many friends. And Tiff has such a fire in her that is so rootable. Like, man, when she's talking her talk after the final six immunity and she's all hyped up after she won, I'm ready to run through a wall for Tiff. And I feel like a lot of the jury probably felt the same way.

she does have that full underdog story of like, hey, I was at final six and all of you guys wanted me out and I won and I won and I got here. I voted out all my allies at the merge and I had to use all my way back in. Yeah, she had a big. I think she cleans up. I think she's got, I think she's got Ceri. I think she's got D. I think those are two really influential people.

Again, this Chrissy Stephanie, you know, coach group is probably voting for Joe or Jonathan regardless, but I think the rest of the votes were kind of. for grabs. Yeah, well said. And yeah, Tiff, Tiff just has like, she's so charming. She's so funny. Like, when she gets hot and angry and, like, she lays it all out and is just so authentic.

And then just like, just on the day to day, just watching her just normal camp interaction. She just has a charisma about her that I just find so endearing and cool. And she's just like one of those people you want to be her friend. And like, I don't know. She's got the sauce for sure. And yeah, it's great. Well, the chat is. on it all over it too. But, you know, there was all talk all season long, rightfully so,

so, hey, about the edit and, you know, the representation in the edit. And I think that the best example of this is going to be TIF because she's so fun. She's electric. She's, she's incredible TV. She's confrontational. She speaks her mind. She's everything that you want. And probably comes into tonight with a lot more buzz as a potential win candidate if we see Tiffany story early on. It is the fact that, like you mentioned, we checked in with Aubrey a whole lot, a whole lot throughout. And Tiffany's not in the show until after the merge.

And I think, you know, if you're somebody who reads into that, that was pretty damning stuff right there. But otherwise, outside of the edit, we had no reason to believe Tiffany wasn't a very viable win candidate at this point. Sure. Yeah. So, and shout out to Tiff, too, because I'm sure that must have been hard to watch unfold. and realizing, like, oh, they're not really showing me.

Because, like, she had a chance at the final five of season 50, right? Like, not everybody can say that. But it's hard. A 24-person cast, I get it. You want to get the most out of the Colby while you can while he's there. You want to check in. But, yeah, the gender disparity was a little troubling. But, you know, Jeff says Tiffany will be back for a third season.

We also, yeah, maybe Tiffany traders. Yeah. People in the chat are asking for traders. I sign up for that. I would love to see her out there. For sure. Well, let's a good segue into the game I wanted to pose to you.

Oh, okay. Sure. Who do we think from 50 is playing again? Just a quick little draft. Like, we'll just alternate maybe three picks, but,

you know, who do you think are the most likely candidates for another run here? I do think we will see, uh, R-I-Z-G-O-D-R-G-G-D-R-G-G-D-R-Gad Baby on our screens again. again outside of, hey, he's young. He's, you know, everything Survivor wants now. Good for the kids.

Fun player, big character. But also, this is a guy that, you know, has some unfinished business. As we hear Jeff say all the time, you got to finish this story without being a two-time firemaking loser. So I do think we'll see Rizzo for sure. Follow up question of that. Do you wait? How long do you wait? Do you let him, you know, get?

do you like wait at least two years like what's what's the where's the most compelling i think a couple of years would be good for riso like maybe it's not your next returning season but like the one after that where you get you know jeff says all the time give them time to miss yeah let's let's get some time to miss rizzo and then check in with me for survivor 56 to see the ris god there you know yeah not on that uh the the survivor 52 blood versus water fake cash that was going around. That might be a little too soon. But him and the Lizgod would be a good pair for sure.

Who else are, who's on your list here? If you're going through who we see again, Tiff, Rizzo. Yeah, Tiff is a strong pick here. I think, I mean, she was coming into this season as one of the people with the most to prove, I would say. And Jeff touched on this in the live finale. Like,

did you experience any imposter syndrome going in? And I loved her response. She's just basically like, not anymore. And rightfully so. And I would love to see her continue that progression because she's a gamer. Like we saw it in 46. We knew there was so much more left on the table when she went out seventh or eighth or whenever she did. And yeah, I would love to see Tiffany back because like you said, she's great TV. She's a challenge beast. She's just, she gives you everything you want in a

contestant. So yeah, Tiff, I think has a very good shot of returning for sure. I think we'll see. I do think Q will probably be back at some point. I don't I don't think this. is his stories. And I think we get Kyle again. Oh, yeah, for sure. Just one of the most dominant winners that we've ever seen, really fun winner doesn't really get that second opportunity here. So there's more there.

And then I could see Rick Devons having another go at it. I think that that is a group that makes sense to me. Yeah, I think Devon's stock maybe went up the most. And I think, and this can kind of go into our conference. conversation as we talk about the open era that is coming. But I think the way Devin's played the game, and I heard Rob talk about this a lot, he was kind of just like flipping over the table on the meta that emerged in the new era of the conservative gameplay, the peak right at the right moment. He was like, no, I'm going to be loud. I'm going to be the Kool-Aid man and burst through and make

these flashy moves and just fly by the seat of my pants until the wheels fall off. And I respect the hell out of that. You know, I was definitely too afraid to do something like that on my seat. season, you know, and I'm much more willing now to call it fear than I was two years ago. I would call it more like pragmatism or something like that. But like, you know, it's like you don't want to fly too close to the sun on your first season. But I think he could be kind of like the poster child in a way for like the flashy, exciting dynamic gameplay. And then just thinking back to old era folks, I guess one last question. Like, do you think Ozzy plays again? Or do I thought it was just such a poetic finish.

Yeah. I don't know. I think, um, honestly, Rick might be the only pre-50 player, uh, that I see coming back out of this season 50 cast. I think, you know, a big part of this was one last shot for a lot of these people. Um, I think Surrey is, is, they'd have her as many times as she wants. I think she wants to be done. Um, I do think Ozzy's done. I think Jenna, you know, this is it for Jenna. Yeah.

I don't know if we'll see Christian again either. Yeah, I feel like I think we're good with a lot of these people and we got sort of fitting conclusions to a lot of these stories. Rick Devons is the one that you could sell me on on him. He's so fun. He feels so new era coded. You could put him on every season. But I do think that in terms of unfinished business, there are still some new era folks that

were on the season 50 cast that we could see again. for sure like a Jen or Charlie or the list goes on and on for sure yeah and of course that's a two-way street right do these people want to do it again most people probably probably do but um yeah hard to say no let's uh let's talk a little bit about this this live finale here oh and it was brief but throughout the night we got quite a few announcements one of which being two winners that are not named Aubrey Charlie and Camilla are going on the white lotus they made a whole spectacle of this. Yeah.

Interesting choices from Mike White. Charlie, I saw coming from a mile away. That one felt pretty easy to me. But how about Camilla going on the way? Yeah. I wouldn't, she wouldn't have been my bet. I was trying to think back to even the early stage. That feels like a lifetime ago when Mike was still in the game.

But I like it. I'm thrilled for them. I mean, I love watching the White Lotus. And I love the way Mike revealed it. He was just like, yeah, sure, why not? Yeah, I'll tell you. This is fun. I like that they did this.

I don't know what the general public consensus is on this reveal. But it was obviously a talking point going out to season 50. So it's only right that I see someone in the Chats that they had auditions. I saw this too. Did he base it off auditions? I don't think so. I think Mike chose who you wanted to choose. That was a cute video.

That was a cute video. But based on his track record, I think Mike just invites the people he likes the most. So clearly they bonded in some way, shape, or form, maybe at Ponderosa. Although it sounds like he was on his, like, he was doing his own thing. But yeah, I mean, good for them. I'm happy for them. Yeah, nice little, yeah, I think both of them in their own ways, kind of season 50 was not the, you know, not that second chance that I think a lot of they would have dreamed of or hoped for written for themselves.

So maybe disappointing in some regard. they're getting something out of it with yeah nice consolation prize a nice trip to france to stay at the four seasons not a bad gig yeah we'll see okay of these two more likely to have a speaking role in the show because we've had from as as little as christian hubicki kind of blurry in the background sitting at uh at a table all the way to alec merlino being a full on character Eric, named character. Named character. So where do we think Camilla and Charlie fall in the White Lotus lore?

Hmm. Man, Camilla's so dry and funny. I would love to see her. They both are. They both have great sense of humor. But Sam, we're going to have to put a pin in this because I see Scott saying Rob will be here. And I see the studio chat has gone from three to four people. So I think Rob, we've got him.

There is. Hey, what's going on? I'm just here. I'm closing out. the red carpet. There's literally nobody left here from this wild night. First guy and last guy out. Real much.

Yeah. So that's what's going on over here. How was the vibe? How are people doing? The vibe was good. It was a little quiet here on the red carpet and the after show. Really, a lot of the commotion was here in the pre-show on the red carpet where a ton of the survivor winners were here in the the building and a lot of faces that you haven't seen around Survivor in quite some time.

So that was really where most of the excitement was on the red carpet. And then, of course, you know, everybody's excited for Aubrey here at the end of the night. Rob, we were, we were just, Owen and I were just kind of speculating between the two of us. What this White Lotus cameo is going to look like. Did you acquire any information about Charlie and Camilla on the White Lotus? So I did have the opportunity to talk with Charlie and Camilla on. on the red carpet. They were a little cagey about what is going to be going on.

I asked them if they had a love scene together. They didn't come out and flat say no. So they said they have been told by Mike White what they're doing, but they were very cagey about the details. I can't imagine what that HBO NDA looks like. Can you give the people maybe a little tease? Any folks you've gotten to talk to that they might be excited to hear from, maybe when you get around to sharing these.

So here on the red carpet, we're going to upload later on tonight. My interviews I spoke with after the show, obviously Aubrey, Tiffany, Joe, and the Risgod. Jonathan did not do press tonight. We'll see that not with RHAP, not with any outlet.

He came out here. He took photos and then walked away from the red carpet. So we are scheduled to do, interviews with the final five also in the morning. So we'll see if we hear from him then. Earlier in the night, you had a bunch of the survivor winners that were here. Tina Weston was here. Fuseppeo was here. Aris, Boston, Rob. Some of the people that you don't normally see come out here at these different survivor fineries. And so it was a really exciting night to see a lot of faces around. What is the vibe in Los Angeles on the open era? Owen and I have not had the chance to

talk about it yet, but do we know what this means? That's my first question. Nobody does. We'll find out what the open era is. Listen, it's not the new era, and with all due respect, we'll take the open era. So it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

I appreciate that they gave it a name. That way we, at least I think they've heard us calling. What do we call after season 50? And they threw it to us in. era. Rules off the tongue better than a new era. Yeah.

So, yeah, we'll see. It was not what I was hoping for in terms of like, two tribes are back and or a theme. So I do think we're getting two tribes though. Do you think so? I don't know. From what I could see from the, from the trailer it looked like two tribes,

but it sounds like that maybe we might not have a set number of tribes. Seems like that it might be changing constantly. That's the whole one era. Keep us on our toes. But I'm going to let you guys get back. to it. I think we're going to be getting kicked out of here pretty soon. They're starting to take down the red carpet at this point. Closing time. Thank you. Yeah, closing time. Okay, one last call for a great win for Aubrey Brocko. Thank you guys so much for filling in tonight and I can't wait to

listen to the pod. Thanks, Rob. All right. Take care. Bye. All right. Well, before we continue with the live finale kind of breakdown here, I do want to talk about this 51. preview, all of that. But if you are out there and you're thinking about applying for Survivor, if you're thinking about just the history of the game, thinking of all of these great players that Rob mentioned that are on the red carpet with him, well, I got news for you.

You need to go and purchase the tribe and I have spoken. That's Rob's book. You can get it wherever you get your books. So go ahead and check that out. I have it myself. I've already given it a good read. I mentioned like twice. I highlighted both of them.

And it's fantastic. Oh, and I'm sure you, you can also. I got one. I got one in the Oops, All Cochran chapter. So I am so touched to be named next to Brandon Domlin in the list of New Era super fans that have made it on the show. But really, Rob has a book.com. And it's beautiful, honestly. Like, this is not just because we're on Rob's podcast, but like objectively, like, you know, sometimes you see a friend doing a

project and you're like, okay, dude, good for you. But like, this turned out really beautifully. And shout out to reality paints on Instagram, paints with a Z, the artist who did all the art for this book. They do cool sketches after every episode that they post on Instagram, really talented artist there. So check out their work. But the work for the book turned out beautiful as well. And it really weaves a nice story. And like you said, Sam, a fun read. And a New York Times bestseller. Already. at bestseller status there. So definitely go check that out.

Owen, just kind of off of what Rob said there, I'm very curious to hear more about this. Did Jonathan Young think he won? And if so, what gives? Because I mean, we need to know what's going on before. He looked pretty upset. I'm not going to lie. And like, people talk, you know, I'm sure.

Yeah. You would think he maybe would have had an idea of what could come, but he did look pretty disappointed, I will say. And Sam, quick sidebar. I know you're a big baseball guy. Yes. Did it look to you that Jonathan had a big old dip in his mouth on stage? Okay. He might have. He was either like, I think he had, he was packing a lip when he was either gritting his teeth, because he was so angry at the result or, uh, he got a kind of zins on his way in to. Yeah. Who knows? But yeah, I think he might have thought he won. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think like that's a bit absurd if it's the case just because, hey, like you said, people talk.

I'd be curious to poll old era survivor players before the lot, you know, votes got read in Fiji and figure out, hey, you guys all knew what was going to happen, right? If so, somebody did Jonathan a disservice if he got blindsided. I understand being upset. I'll go ahead and say it. You got to go ahead and do your media. You do. Yeah. I criticize.

I work in sports. I criticize athletes all the time. Hey, you blow the game. You're going to still have to stand up there and talk about it. You lose. It sucks. I feel for you as a fellow runner up.

But, yeah, man, you got to answer the questions and try to enjoy this celebration of season 50 regardless of the outcome here. Let's go ahead and get into, I guess, the last few things from this live finale. Owen, before we wrap up and get out of here. Yeah. Yeah, she's the fan favorite. Surprise. Yeah.

Wow. She also gets, what is this award called? Did you pay attention to this? The Spirit of Survivor Award, I believe. But then there was a subtitle about inspiring people to chase event. I forget the rest of the subtitle. But I got a little nervous. I was like, is this the consolation because Rick Devin is about to get Cia's money.

So I wasn't sure what was about to go down there. I will say to, you know, first time with us to unknow-it-all's here. So we'll do questions in the chat, too. We can- Oh, yeah. We got to take advantage of it being live for sure. Take advantage of the live aspect here. And then I guess the last thing that we have to talk about is Survivor 51 is the open era. Any real takeaways.

Obviously, it's a trailer. But what did we make of this? I wasn't sure. And real quick, one last thing of the live, the car, give it to do. Jonathan. Give Jonathan the car. I agree. It suits them more. It retroactively still fits the curse. Aubrey has $2 million. I can buy the car.

The whole deal was like, oh, the curse is that if you get the car, you don't win the game. It would have been funny to be like, Jonathan, you didn't win the game, but here's the car. I guess, say, somebody paid for it. So if you're a survivor, you're going to do it. But it kind of felt unnecessary. All right, good for Aubrey, I guess. She gets a car and two million. Yeah, I guess so, but I mean, she'll get, what, 1.2 after Obama takes it, as Jeff Kemp would say, you know. So in this economy, we'll take it. But that thing looked like a gas guzzler. So I don't know.

Maybe it would have suited Jonathan's, you know, Alabama beach business a little bit better than whatever operies got going on. But anyway, Sammy, my wife, really wanted me to say that because, yeah, she already has $2 million. I agree. I'm with you there. I think that's a good take by Sam. me. Okay. Survivor 51. Yeah. I think, so first of all, I did kind of like, I'm a simple man. I see something that reminds me of Jurassic Park. I perk up a little bit. You know, the dinosaur bones. I appreciate where the art direction is going. But I truly have no idea what is going to be happening.

I love that they're jumping off of a boat at the beginning. I know that seems simple and silly, but like we're shaking it up a little bit. I liked the dude with the blonde mustache who said we were going back to the single diggies. But it makes me wonder, is it going to be like a constant reshuffling of the deck? Are they going to be sometimes two, sometimes three? Is it going to be potentially a one world situation where maybe sometimes they're all on the same beach? Like, I guess the thesis is like, we're just going to put this cast in a blender and just see

what happens? I don't know. I, my question was, right, Jeff's narration says, every advantage we've ever done is in the game. It feels like a lot. Look, I am very happy that it feels like new. And that is the win. I think that's what any Survivor fan ultimately would have asked for is we don't want 51

to feel like 49 recycled or 44 recycled or whatever new era season it is. And you're just rolling out another 18 person cast with the same format, yada, yada. it does feel like there's some intentionality on Survivor's part, both in the cast from, you know, some of the just job descriptions that I've seen out there and whatnot. It feels different. They are clearly making it intentional to be different in terms of game structure and marketing.

We'll see how that plays out. But I'm not going to go ahead and I'm not going to criticize it too much. I think that there's something to be to be interested in. Yeah, I wonder if. if the marketing is making it sound more, like, zany. More drastic than it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, because in a way, you could argue, too, you could see this manifesting in more of a back-to-basics,

like classic advantages or whatever with, like, an occasional thing or a format change. But, yeah, I think really for those who are aware of some of the ways the rumor mill works around projected casts, some of those have started coming out. So what Sam's referencing is just like, yeah, some of these job titles, we see a couple former college football players. We see actors. We see we see hot people, you know, I know fishback is clamoring for the hot people. So it's, I'm optimistic. You know, I, I love this show so much and it's so easy to, to pick it apart and question everything that they do. And obviously, we want to take everything with a grain of salt and try to, you know, not just totally

just like glaze the show. But I choose to believe that the producers want to have fun. I really do think one of the best things that will come out of season 50 is this injection of newness into it because when you think about it from their perspective, they've produced basically the same game nine times in a row leading into 50, right? Like there hasn't been a whole lot different for them. And I'm sure even for the most like diehard like survivor in their blood crew member, they might have been getting a little bit bored of the new era themselves, you know? So I bet they're clamoring for a little excitement from what I've, heard, you know, just from some folks that we met through the show that there is a buzz about it.

So I'm excited to watch. All right. Well, this is a fun question related to season 51 as we transition to some of your questions here live late night for Owen and I after the Survivor 50 finale. What twists do you both want to see again? I think that this may be placed for some of the twist we saw in season 50, but again, with Jeff saying, every twist advantage, everything we've ever done is back. Oh, and what are you hoping to see most of all? Yeah. I don't know if this is most of all, but something that I've always been saying is I really think they were almost on to something great with one world, but then they ruined it by doing the gendered tribes. I do think there's something compelling about the fluidity of everyone being on the same beach. And maybe if you

interspers that with shuffling of tribes for challenges, that could lead to a lot of fluid gameplay. So I think something like even a round or two where everyone's on the same beach early in the game and they're just free to gravitate who they want to could be like just open so many worlds of possibility for strategy. So I think that could be something interesting that we haven't seen in a long, long time. I will say from season 50, I like double duos and I'd like to see it again. I think it's actually pretty clever. And then as far as advantages, this is a hot take of mine.

I like Knowledge is Power. And I'd like to get back in the game. I think, you know, obviously season 43 is just one of the many ways in which Knowledge is Power can create for a really entertaining game. We don't get that entire moment with Jesse and Janine's Idol and all of that craziness without the existence of Knowledge's Power. So I would like to see, hey, we've seen it. fail. We've seen it half work. We've seen it, you know, influence people into making mistakes.

I'd love to see knowledge as power just straight up work. Can somebody actually, you know, use it to their benefit? I'd like to see it back and get another go. I like it. Let's see. What else we got? Yeah, where do you want to go next? I'll let you go. Let's see. Something 51 related. Could this apply to twist like Redemption Island or Exile or Blood versus Water or just randomly see? season to season. I think they're talking more about game mechanics versus twist. Right. We'll say, I think Edge of Extinction or Redemption Island can work if you just end it at the merge. Right. Redemption Island is fun at the merge. I like it at the merge. I agree. We don't need it. 90 minute episodes. I think there is room in the edit for that for maybe half the season. That could

be kind of cool. I wouldn't hate that. I like these twists my question, the reason I asked the question of like I was a little stunned by Jeff's narration is because if you are telling me everything is in the game, right? Am I to believe we have a Tyler Perry super idol and a Billy Adishulwring idol and a regular idol and a beware advantage idol and a steal a vote and a block of vote and this, that and is all of it in or are you just saying, hey, we could do anything. Could do whatever we want. Because that's always been the thing. I wouldn't be upset if every beach had a different type of.

idol because like we had the beware bead idols on my season but as soon as the beads got brought up everyone knew what the mechanic was for all of us but say you have one tribe that has a boomerang idol where you give it to someone on your own tribe and then you have to try to make them your target you get one where you're trying to get someone to say a zany phrase and then you have one where you have to like share it with someone or whatever and you have different mechanics on each beach um you know that brings up the question of like fairness or whatever but if it's randomly assigned like send it why not so I do think part of the thesis of the theme is to make the players just like get their wheels turning and make them think and kind of put them into a blender. And it would work on me if I went in and I heard Jeff on the mat at the beginning say like anything could happen.

I'd be like racking my brain for the most obscure medallion of power ass, you know, kind of thing that they could do. Look, I appreciate, like I said to Rob, I appreciate them branding it and marketing it. for us. But if it is this general idea of, hey, we can do anything, the natural follow-up for any viewer is, okay, but what's actually different? Because that's very similar to a lot of the messaging that we've gotten in the new era already of dangerous fun and expect the unexpected. So I'm curious if there's anything tangibly different or if it's just like different marketing slogans for season 51. A couple more. Do you think the cast's perception of Rizzo changes if they get to watch 49 before playing,

and if so, does he potentially beat Tiff and Aubrey in a final tribal council? First half, 100% yes. I mean, myself, I was not a fan of Rizzo when I saw him in the trailer for 49. I was like, who is this kid? You mean, Jesse Lopez, 50, you know, what, like, what's his deal?

But then as soon as you actually see the real Rizzo and not only the Riz God, you realize that the inner play that the two characters have and that it is a bit. And he's in on the joke and he's just having fun and he's just a really excited, you know, jovial person who's having the time of his life out there.

And I do think it would change the perception. Although it begs the question of like, did he benefit from people not seeing him and seeing what a great gamer he is? Or did it hurt him that some of them had only the Riz God perception from the trailer? You know, like it's a double-ed sword for him.

I think he does what better on the season and goes far because he's helped by the lack of knowledge about him. But I do think towards the end of the game, seeing 49 would have only helped him. I just kind of believe that there is similar to like when you play on a newbie season, there's like threat aura. You can just kind of like seem like a threat,

even if are you actually doing anything? I don't know. But like sometimes the aura of a threat is all you actually need to win the game because it commands respect from the other players. And I think that there's a lot of times where you can look at like all, Aubrey throughout the season. And she's not necessarily making moves or even really doing anything. But I think that obviously she positions herself really well late.

And Aubrey has this aura that we've said of they know that Aubrey is capable. They know that Aubrey is smart. They know that she has played brilliant survivor games in the past. And that knowledge, I think, gets her a lot of the benefit of the doubt when you are talking about her intentionality in her gameplay, talking about how she did things to put herself in a winning position, and it makes her a more attractive winner. And I think that people watched Rizzo on season 49 and understood the fact that he had played this great game and he was playing aggressively and was this really strategic person, I think it goes to his benefit a little bit

more of like, yeah, this guy can win because he's a really good, well-thought-out strategic player that could help him in a final tribal. Yeah, I don't know if it'd be Barbary or Tiffany, but I think it's interesting for sure. Yeah, it would make him a more attractive representative for the season as a winner, I think. Here, maybe one more about 50, and then I want to do the returning player one too.

And then the Ftm 22 asks, your favorite and least favorite parts about the finale and of the season. So kind of our roses and our thorns of this journey. I mean, my brain immediately goes to the thorn of the season for me would probably be the blood moon. Just from a mechanic and viewing experience perspective, it was not my favorite episode. I thought just doing them all in one night was just kind of, I don't know. I think there are more creative and interesting ways, I think, to move through a cast this large.

I mean, we see Australian Survivor do some good, some bad version. of it. But I mean, I thought the double duos was a really great idea. But yeah, the Blood Moon was probably not my favorite. And then, of course, some of the celebrity things. Yeah, I think for me, my least favorite is going to be the Blood Moon as well. I'm obviously very biased on the matter. Attended a funeral for both one of my favorite players ever in Colby Donaldson and my girl Genevieve at that. So I think that was probably like the darkest point of the season. And I agree. We kind of dragged through the pre-merge a little bit. It would have been very easy to do,

hey, losing two tribes, both go to tribal council and done standard voteouts early while allowing the players who make it to this merge phase of the game to have a little bit more agency in their own faith rather than deciding it by a rock draw. So that's the real negative favorite parts of tonight and the season. So for the season at large for me, it just is so many crazy characters and historic people

that we've seen interacting with one another and watching many of the storylines that you never knew if you would get to see again and watching those redemption arcs play out, I thought just added something really, really fun to the season. My favorite part tonight, as I said, in the same vein, I think it's two moments.

It's Rizzo's story as he's going out and it's Aubrey winning Final Immunity and it's listening to them talk about their individual stories because that's what I like to watch Survivor for. I'm a storyteller and I'm a, you know, a romantic. And I like these moments. They make me emotional. They make me feel something.

And for both of them, I was feeling what they were feeling in the moment. And I thought it really captured not to take Ceres a ward away from her, but the spirit of Survivor in a cool way. Yeah. And I'd throw Aubrey's answer at Final Tribal about her story into the mix there as well. I thought she did it beautifully. And then one that both simultaneously had me feeling those feelings, but then also made me laugh was when Rizzo was doing his confessional before fire.

And he's like in shambles sobbing. But he still gets in like a R-I-Z-T-O-D-R-Ga-Ga-Begie. Like through the tears. Like that was just so like. His commitment to the bit is the funniest thing about his, about his character is the idea that, you know, no matter what he's going through, he has to say the full thing,

the man, the myth, the legend, R-I-C-G-O-D-R-G-G-O-D-R-G-G-D-R-G-G-G-D-B-B-B. Yeah, I loved it. I love it. And then I think overall, I mean, you nailed it. I think my favorite episodes are always, like, the premiere, the merge, the finale, and the story, like, seeing everybody come back, the shot of Jenna Lewis on the plane and then on the boat, like, just, like, just like, Jenna. Jenna Lewis's Matt-chat is also an underrated moment.

that still stands out to me of being like really cool and powerful. Yes, for sure. Colby and Rizzo's relationship, watching that unfold and just seeing these parts of your life come together. And us like having played and having met some of these new era people and having our kind of like the new era social circle, getting to see them interact with these people we watch when we were children, you know, was really, really cool and gratifying. And like you said, just the baggage, the stories, watching it all unfold. I thought the finale was really satisfying and a good conclusion to everything.

So I thought, you know, there were some stretch in the middle where it was a bit bumpy. But I think it started really well. And I think we stuck the landing at the end of the day. All right. Well, let's get into, you say you have a question here about returning players that you'd like to address to before we wrap up. Yeah. Just, you know, we're thinking about the open era in 51, 52, the future. But someone in the chat asked, when do we think the next returning player season will be?

I well according to Jeff sooner rather than later I would be surprised if we made it through the first four seasons of the open era without seeing some returning players back on our screen I was going to set the over under at 54 and a half so you would take the under on that I think I would yeah yeah I don't I feel like you know you start to get into 55 56 it feels it feels a little long you know that's three years from now And the idea of like waiting another three years from now before we see new era people again.

Too long. It feels a little too long. Yeah, I think you need to keep this top of mind. And, you know, I fully agree with a lot. Obviously, people didn't necessarily enjoy not having returning seasons at all in the 40s. But I do think Jeff is very correct in the sense that you have to build up a new crop. And in order to like, we can't keep recycling, you know, Ceree, Parvity, Boston Rob. and be like, okay, we're running these stories back over and over again.

You have to build up more lower. And in order to do it, you bring back these people, but then you also have to use them. So I think that that feels right. Yeah, it reminded me when I first saw some of the cast, I have to admit, I was like, again, like, I don't know if I need to. It reminded me of that photo shoot the NFL did where, like, Dan Marino and Jerry Rice are back in uniform.

Yeah, that beam that went around. But no, I ended up enjoying all of them. and like Ozzy's arc was great. But yeah, I think they could have maybe served themselves well by doing like New Era All-Stars for 48 and then like more of a legends for 50 or doing eight, eight new era, eight middle school, eight old school, something like that. Like we need Malcolm. We need like Kelly Wentworth.

I know she says she's done. But yeah, I think 54 or 55 would make sense. Like two years from now, I think would be the most. And then one last question for you. I know, I think it's safe to say you and I would both. be excited about going back. I don't think there's any like, yeah. And with those rumors of the blood versus water that I knew were fake,

because they would your wife have any interest? I know she's not a big survivor head. I think it's her worst nightmare. Do I think she would do it? According to her, if it was the difference between me getting a chance to play again and not getting a chance to play again, I think she would tough it out.

so that I could get a shot, but I'm not sure she'd be enthusiastic about it. So I don't know. She might do sneaky well, but it's definitely out of her comfort zone. Yeah, yeah. Were you on that fake list that went around? I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so was she.

She sent it to me and, yeah, was funny. You got to take out of the fact that she was, you know, on a rumored cast somewhere. So. Yeah, her name's in the ether now. never know. You never know who they might call. Yeah. I think, I think Sammy would do it for sure. Oh, come on. That would be, that would be dangerous for people out there. That's that, that, that means to happen. Yeah. Sammy would be horrible. Awful. Awful gamer and very trust. Trustworthy for sure. All right. Owen and chat. Thank you so much. This has been a blast.

and what a great end to the season. So glad that we could be here with you live on Rob as a podcast. I know Rob will have all kinds of content coming to break down what we saw tonight, what we might see in the future, exit interviews, red carpet interviews, the whole shebang. Don't forget, obviously, wherever you get your books, check out The Tribe and I have spoken. There might need to be an amendment made to the Tribe and I have spoken to talk about season 50. but if you're looking at playing in the open era, that's where you can go to expect the unexpected

because he's got everything in there. Wherever you get your books for that. Oh, and thank you so much. No need to give out the fishy. We know it's going to Aubrey. For Aubrey, yeah. But fishing for Aubrey. Thank you so much, everybody.

Bye. Bye, y'all.