RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Flashbacks: Christian Hubicki’s Survivor Post Game Retrospective

Episode Date: August 3, 2025

This week, we're flashing back to Christian Hubicki's post season interview!

Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cistrino back with you and we've got another one of our Survivor 50 flashbacks and we've got a real good one for you today because this is one that was a big thrill for me to do at the time. And right after Survivor David versus Goliath, I had been in contact with Dr. Christian Kubicki. And he said that he wanted to come into the studio to do a deep dive just a couple days after the season was over. This is up there with maybe the quickest turnaround

we've ever had from the finale of the show to when we recorded the deep dive. I think that the finale might've been, it was probably a Wednesday night for Survivor David versus Goliath. And I think this was a Friday morning, like two days after the finale had aired, Christian came back into my house

and it aired December 26, 2018. I think we might have had to wait a little bit to get it approved, but it was very exciting to get Christian so quick after his season had ended and have him in the studio for what would be the first of many, many podcasts with Dr. Christian Hubecky over the years, and I am very proud to say that he's become a great friend of mine. And so I am so excited to see him play in Survivor 50. And I hope you're excited to hear this podcast interview with him from December 26, 2018 from the RHAP Vault as we get ready for Christian Hubecky on

season 50 of Survivor. All right everybody I'm very excited to have this person here with me in the studio for a deep dive into everything that we've just seen in Survivor David versus Goliath. He is a man who has surprisingly few nicknames after a long run into Survivor David versus Goliath. Please welcome the great Christian Hubecky. Christian, how are you? Ah, doing well, Rob. It's really fun to be here. Yeah, I too was also disappointed in the just the sparsity of nicknames that I had approved. Did you have any nicknames? Mostly, you know, sometimes shortened Christian to Chris,

if they're my family from or from high school, but that's about it really. Yeah, none of the real robot things caught on. Not really. They didn't. So I mean, so overall, I consider my survivor experience a complete failure as a result. Yeah. How are you? Doing well, doing well.

It's a real, so recovering from the finale. It's quite an experience, you recovering from the finale. Yeah. That's quite an experience, you know, all of a sudden. You would think after being on the island and surrounded by cameras all the time that, you know, cameras wouldn't like, you know, kind of freak you out anymore. But you know, it's different when it's a live studio audience. You're like, oh, there's no, there's no editing here. What I say will be on live television.

What was it like being reunited with everybody after all this time away? It was really cool seeing everyone. And there also to be why I had never met before. I never met Natalie before. I'd only heard stories, all good things of course. And so as a result, yeah. And this is also, by the way, the first time

you have to watch the episode together, you know, that's a different experience. You know, normally you're watching it by yourself or with some loved ones. And so like something happened to applaud and then you're watching the, you know, the final immunity challenge where, where Nick wins because Kara drops the ball. And I want to applaud Nick, you know, good job, Nick, you won. But I realized, I don't want to, I realized I had to stop myself. I don't want to be like applaud Kara. Congratulations, you lost, you know, there is, Nick, you won. But I realized, I don't want to, I realized I had to stop myself. I don't want to be like applaud Kara,

congratulations, you lost. You know, there is a different dynamic to seeing everyone and watching together, but it was really awesome just getting everyone in the same place. Is there any relief now that this experience is sort of, you can, you know, close the book and now, okay, the, you know, the run is over.

It's, it is really nice to not have to kind of think about and worry what's gonna be on on Wednesday, what's gonna make television. Cause your head runs through nightmare scenarios every week of like, what did I do in this three day cycle? What happened? Did I say something really stupid? Like more than usual.

And you just hope like that got pushed on the editing room floor and they kept, maybe the one or two jokes that worked. Did you enjoy the process of watching the show back? I, in the first viewing, it would always be nerve wracking. It's a point where like, and you watch them, like I got to watch with a couple people around the engineering department.

They would throw little mini things at a bar where we'd watch, but it's hard to hear at those times. And then the rewatch, I can go back and say, okay, what did I actually say? And I sort of analyze the edit a little bit. It was like, okay, they, they, they lingered on that word a little too long there. I wonder why. So like that part, that sort of, I guess I'm most relaxed when I'm going to sort of analytical mode and, you know, and just look at it.

So that was kind of enjoyable. And it was, there were a lot of scenes I was just like, oh, I'm so glad that that was on television. And there are times out there, you're like, you're going around, you're doing your business, but you never forget the cameras there. I never, I don't think I ever did anything for the cameras themselves.

But like, there like, there was a moment on Teva Beach where I, Dan's like, I'm gonna do some pull-ups, I'm gonna do some pull-ups, gotta do my morning pull-ups. And I was like, okay. I got to. And I actually practiced pull-ups a lot before I went out and I was like, okay, I have to do pull-ups too,

because I showed Dan that I'm a fellow brochacho. And I was like, as I'm climbing the tree to get to the branch to do pull-ups on, which was ultimately one of the secret scenes, I was like, I'm going to see this moment again, I realize, as I'm like, bailing the climate tree and do pull-ups on a branch that Dan just jumped onto. Those moments and seeing them actually air are really cool. That was a long answer to, did you enjoy it? I could have just said,

yeah, mostly. Well, I think they would be a very short podcast if you didn't get into everything that you thought about things. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, we cover more material. It could just be like a whole bunch of questions on a roll and be like, yes, no. Yeah, I think we'll cover a lot of ground. That's my that's my hope here today. Sounds good.

So I'm very happy to have you here in the studio. This is a thrill for me because it was very fun to get to watch you play on the season. Remind me, I'm sure you talked about this in First One Out, but how did you first get into watching Survivor? This is a good question, because on First One Out, I was a gibbering mess, I felt. So it's good, I can do this again. So take two, take two.

Take two. No, I had started watching the show when it first aired. A lot of people say that they're like, I'm a day one fan. And technically that's not true for me. I started the third episode, so technically I was a day 15 fan and technically that's not true for me. I started the third episode so technically I was a day 15 fan. So I always had that black mark on my record but you know I get by it. So I enjoyed watching Richard Hatch and I thought it was cool how he

would fish. I mean I was 14 at the time and so that's kind of the level I enjoyed the show and over time I kind of realized this neat kind of strategic component and I was like sort of like oh this is more complex and interesting than I even sort of realized. And there are different milestones throughout over the years. And, you know, I enjoyed watching, watching you watching Steven, watching Todd and you'll a lot of the kind of the more strategic players. And then Russell Hans comes along to 1920. And I thought that was like really like a new kind of interesting way to play, even though it ultimately didn't work out for him. And I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna start applying for the show. So right back in 2010 is when I started applying after Heroes vs. Villains. First season I submitted my application was for, I actually sent a DVD in the mail. I bought a flip video camera, video phone, I believe I did, only for the purposes of this. Did it like the day before,

and I had to overnight my application to CPS, and only to never of course get a call. Yeah. That you know, it happens, you know. The investment paid off eventually. Eventually. Yeah.

You know, I'm sure that I probably still have that flip camera somewhere after like two moves later. But yeah, so I sent in my application and I didn't get a call. But I remember that was the season Cochrane got on. I was like, oh cool. I was like, you know, in principle, there's someone that kind of sort of looks like me that got on the show. So I kept trying for years and I didn't get any calls or anything. And I, to the point where like, okay, if they would have cared about me, they would have

called me at some point. You know, at least said, hey, Christian, we're interested in you, but not this season or something like that. But like, I got nothing and I was like, and it's like, okay, maybe they're not interested. And then this past October, I was listening to first one out with and Ryan Ulrich was talking and talking about how he had submitted two applications for nothing. And then the third time he's like, got on the show, like immediately. I was like, Oh, And I'm at a point where like, I'm about to change my career over into being a professor.

Like, you know, this is actually the culmination of what I've wanted to do my whole life, is to get a job where I run my own research lab, teach, and that will probably start next fall. So if I'm gonna go on the island, you know, it's gotta be now. So I might as well give it one last shot. So sit down and make a video.

I get a call the next day and I go through the whole process. And that was on season 37. Yeah. Okay. So when you heard Ryan Ulrich, Ryan Ulrich, yes, I get in my head about how you're supposed to pronounce it. I think he says it's Ulrich because in that interview, Jeff called us. I love the name Ulrich. And then Josh says she was Ulrich and Jeff's like, oh, that sucks. So I believe that's how it goes. That's Ulrich. Which I think is great. You heard him talk about how he applied multiple times,

and then that got you to send in your tape again? Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah, I mean, like, you hear a lot of these, I listen to the podcast, Rob. So I hear, I would love, the thing I like- Thank you for that. Oh, you're very welcome.

I'm sure that one extra viewership, that really puts you over the edge, you know? And so the, I think that I would listen to all these exit interviews with people when they talk and they talk about their process of getting on the show. And it was, it was interesting, but also a little depressing that like, I remember like Nick Marano said, Oh, I sent in a video of me waving at the camera for three seconds and I got a call. I'm like, what? I was like, this is, That might be apocryphal.

That might be, yeah, it's possible. So, but like the general pattern was like, Michelle Fitzgerald was like in the process, but you know, took a second time to get on. People get in the process and then they kind of go a little further, further, further till they get on. And I, so I started to get the impression like, man, all these people talking were people that were just got in the process somehow. And

um, and, and eventually got on the show. Whereas, you know, maybe I'm in some category of people that just like will never get there. So, but so then when I hear there is this category of people who suddenly get on after seemingly no interest, uh, then, you know, that's when I applied. So when did this whole experience begin for you? How far in advance of Survivor did you know that you were going to go play? About 28 days before I went out there, approximately, approximately, was when I got the call saying, Christian, you're on. And I, you know, I'm oddly calm with this phone call, but mostly because I'm contemplating

how I'm gonna tell my boss what's gonna go, what's gonna happen to me. But yeah, things like that. That's how long ago that had advanced, and it was very scary. Yeah, and what did your prep look like? So I started prepping as soon as I got the phone call back in October when I was like,

hey Christian, we're interested in you. And I was like, oh, if I want to get any kind of shape, I think now I need to start. So I started this very aggressive pushup regimen, is what I did. What's that, like 100 a day? I got up to 300 a day by the time. 300 a day, every day?

Every day. I started at like 50 is all I could do. So I just committed every day to get a little bit more, a little bit more. Eventually I was doing about 300 a day ultimately before I got out there. That's, that's um, yeah. So that was, that was really my physical prep. I did a little bit of treadmill running, but one thing you'll find out is that you don't do a lot of running on Survivor. It's really like that's, that's

almost like a useless skill in the game. A couple of sprints and some challenges. And that's really about it. Yeah. I mean, as long as you're not the guy who's like, clearly lagging behind and people's like, Come on, Christian, let's go. So I would like sprint my butt off during those parts. But like, you know, you're gonna save approximately a half a second in that but the puzzle is going to take 20 minutes. So yeah, so I prepared that way. I did a

little bit of rewatching of seasons, but I didn't want to cram. I mean, I've seen all the seasons multiple times. You know, I listened to the strategy and every long car ride. So like, I know the events of how things go down. I know the general malaise of like, these are things you do, things you don't do. What I focused on instead was sort of getting myself in a mode, in like a mental mode where how do I hit the beach and just not get picked off early. And lastly you know one last things I saw was Jacob Derwin yeah I played Ghost Island before I went out there and you know I could see that happened to me happening to me and so I really just kind of I crammed for the

early game and that's probably the bulk of my prep. Yeah you really want to make sure you can ride out the first couple days. Get your sea legs there. I think that's way more important than knowing, okay, how to set up a three, two, one at the final six or anything like that. Yeah, that's certainly, it is more important. Figuring out what the actual real logistics are

on the ground out there. That I knew. I think I came in with an appreciation of how little I probably actually knew about the game, which I was which I was you know, I wasn't disappointed. What that's actually like to run around a beach and you know, like, oh, I'm gonna pull aside, you know, pull aside Nick and pull side Gabby, they know what that is, to know what that feels like. And so just know. So I knew basically, Christian, you just got to adapt to what the situation is.

Don't over-prepare. I want to get into everything from your game. I want to make sure we leave 0.0% out of the story. But you know, I don't want to make people wait for something that I think people really want to hear you talk about. And that is your vote at the final drop of council. You cast your vote for Mike, and you also said that you feel like that

Mike's game was a transformative game. And you think that people are gonna play Survivor differently based on Mike White's game. And so with all due respect to Mike, and I want to make sure we're giving plenty of accolades to Mike and his game. I want to be abundantly clear about that. Can you talk about what you felt like was transformative about the way Mike played this

season? It was. That's a great question. And I hope that people take something away from Mike's game this way. Interesting. Like there's a couple of things. Number one, he kind of committed to this character for 39 days of this guy who's just there for the experience. The way I sort of thought of this is the Jimmy Johnson game that what

he was supposed to have played for those who don't remember in Survivor Nicaragua, Jimmy Johnson, legendary coach came in and was like, hey guys, I'm, I know I can't win. I'm this rich guy. I can't win. Let me help you win. Now, ultimately, Jimmy Johnson, it didn't work out for him. But Mike committed to a character for 39 days to the point where he voted for me twice.

Yeah. And, and yet still found a way to wrap me back in to work. I need to work with him. One thing he didn't see was that after, you know, obviously the strike force of six fell through. And I reasoned that this was in probability because Mike didn't want to be the one who flipped. He didn't want to be the guy who betrayed the Goliaths and then all the Goliaths got picked off. But then after the Dan vote, Alison, Alec and Kara had all essentially flipped on the glass had broken that seal. And I wanted to work with him. And he and so as I went

up to Mike and I said, Hey, Mike, I know you voted for me. But just so you know, I never lied to you in this whole game. And I won't start. And he, you know, he picked up the football and said, Okay, Christian, here's what we're going to do. We're going to meet every single night in the middle of the night down on the beach and talk every night. So no one sees, no one sees us coming. And he really kind of- You say he picked up the football?

Yeah, I think so. Is that correct? Is that a metaphor? I guess, I made it up, I guess. I sort of, in my mind, maybe I see it as a fumble inherently that I tried to trust Mike. And so he never picked up the fumble. I felt that maybe there was a literal football in the story.

It's possible. I didn't know if they did luxury items this season. I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, the football was my luxury item. As I'm sure you guessed, but the Boston Rob. Yeah. So like, so he saw that opportunity and picked it up and really just cultivated me. And it was more than... And the allure was that he knew I was looking for someone to take me to the end. And so he really led to me to believe that, you know, just in a very subtle way, but in a way that wasn't overly...

It was just very convincing in a way that I was like, I should know better. And that's just how he tricked me. That's how he tricked me. That's how he tricked me. That's that's that's one aspect of it. But so that character, it wasn't just me. It was everyone in the game for the most part, except Gabby. Gabby, for some reason, always like that Mike, that Mike, you know, she's like she was like at one point we sat on the

sat on the on the raft and talked about it's like it's like Mike. And we were talking like, man, everyone has a great relationship with Mike, it seems. And I said, he's like, Gabby, I have terrible news for you. I have a great relationship with Mike. And so anyway, but he did this with everyone. Everyone wanted to work with him. It's interesting because going back and looking at some of this stuff that you have one of these conversations

with Mike and it's right after the discussion of the strike force and Mike is actually the one saying to you that he feels kind of weird about working with Gabby and that's when you say. That's a weird thing to say. Yeah, and I was really referring to that when I said that. It was like, it was he, it was weirdly honest. Like, why would you like sort of inform

like this Alliance member? Like, I'm not really sure about this Alliance. And I thought, is this guy bad at this? I don't know. Like, and I thought at that point, I'm like, that's such a weird thing to say. Maybe he'll say something really weird that'll tip me off in the future

or make a mistake like that. But I think that he just adopted this persona for the whole game, which is he's basically method acted and the whole game through playing up this idea he's just there for the experience and maybe he'll take me to the end. And I shouldn't have fallen for that. And it wasn't just me. I think it was basically everyone in the game. And so when I left in my boot episode, the most interesting I think I saw was what I saw was like a revolving door of people who would just go and talk to Mike. It was just stunning. Like everyone gave him information. Everyone told him what was going on. And I was like, oh my God, this guy's hood winking everyone. He's immune right now. Otherwise, you know, he might be a good target right now at that vote.

And so so like so I was just just phenomenally impressed by that. And like to the point where no one ever like really wanted to vote him out. The only time there was like a mounting pressure to vote him out, like Kara wouldn't budge, it seemed. I believe that's what she said or someone said in an exit interview. Final five. Final five. And he was, he just, he could, from the final 10 on, he controlled, he either in on or controlled

every vote is what I saw. Actually I drew, people can't see this. I'm going to grab this real fast so I can. You're going to draw a picture or you have something, Christian was brought a notebook with him. And what is this book? This is like your journal? This is essentially my journal.

Okay. Very cool. So on the way to my final travel council, I was trying to diagram out and sort of a flow of power in the game. And Rob, you can sort of see here. You might just- I put my coffee down.

I don't wanna spill it in. It's fine. You're ruining this survivor constitution. I saw, no, there's a little chart in the lower left-hand corner right there. So I'm looking at the line chart. The line chart right there. Can we take a picture of this

and post it on the website? Of course we can. Of course we can. I'm sure it'll be over-scrutinized and people will say, Christian, you gave a mic too many points here. But, no, it's a- So it's a line chart?

And so what are we charting here? So what we're charting here is essentially agency in the game from the merge onwards. So that's sort of like how I was viewing my vote is who had the most agency in terms of controlling their fate in the game. And that was my primary criterion, I believe, for my vote is who had the most agency in terms of controlling their fate in the game. And that was my primary criterion, I believe, for my vote. And I thought Nick did an excellent job. So you charted Nick, Mike and Angelina's agency on each of the votes. And interestingly, so you feel like that Nick, based on what I have,

if I'm reading the chart correctly, and then maybe you should talk us through it, Nick is peaking early with, that his highest points on the chart are on the votes of John and Dan and ultimately, and then coming down around Alec. Yes. And then where Mike is the dashed line and then his highest points not as high as Nick

on the earlier vote. Correct. That he sort of like comes up to a high and then stays plateaued through the end of the game for Gabby, Christian, Davey and Allison. Correct. That's a good descriptor. So like and even by that chart, it's a close vote. I thought Nick was an excellent player.

So what we do in calculus is we would take the area under that curve called the integral. And that would be the amount of control throughout the game over time. It's pseudo-numerical. I'm not pretending this is an exact science. But but that's sort of like my thinking if I were to visualize the control in the game that people had. So Nick at the final 12 with that with that crazy vote was just excellent.

I have a star above it because it's like with a bullet because because because he had so much information at that point and and the knowledge to tip me off and which is good. But near the end, that's when I realized, man, Mike slow played this so well. And it wasn't like, you might say like a Fabio, like, oh, then he's like, here's at the end, people like him, he might win. It was like, he really exerted a lot of control,

actually a lot of narrative control over the game too. Meaning, what's the narrative of this season right now? A little penoresque. Even talking about me, it's like, we gotta get rid of Christian because the audience wants him to win. I want to be like, the audience isn't here. The audience is not here.

But he did turn out to be a prophet in some ways. Oh, you know, that's very, how do you say? But yeah, so this is very long and rambly, I'm sorry. So do you feel like that the show thing, there was just a hard story to tell because, uh, and, and, and, and maybe I just missed it. Maybe it was in there. No, I, I know. I think that it was hard story to tell. So hard to tell that Mike forgot to tell it at the final tribal council.

In fact, I mean, I think that, yeah, Mike actually really kind of fumbled at that final tribal council. Like he dropped the football, you know, he should have picked it back up instead. Thank you. That's the more proper use of that analogy. I appreciate it. I should take notes from you. The but yeah, so like it was, it was kind of like stunning, especially right as I went out the door. It's like, I saw like the scales from my eyes. It's like, I saw the matrix code of what Mike was up to.

And in that final travel council, there were hints of it. But he did not string it into a coherent narrative structure at the end. He didn't own it enough. No, he didn't. In fact, there was a point at the final travel council where he said, I'm actually really conflicted about winning.

And like, you could see the jury's faces fall. Like a lot, I actually literally put my head in my hands. I was like, Mike, like, how could I? Because I at that point, I was definitely I had a fair lean towards Mike based upon the game that I had saw I had seen. And then he said, I'm not sure I want to win. And I'm conflicted about winning. And then Gabby actually straight up asked like, Mike, do you want to win?

Yeah. And and he's like, no, I'm really conflicted. I mean, but that's not the right answer. Do you feel like that was that the political answer in terms of if I say that I want to win, then that sort of is at odds of that I, hey, I just wanted this experience, and that sort of paints me as a liar? I think Mike was legitimately conflicted.

I think that he had put on this character or played up the aspects of his personality or the person who didn't want to win her for so long and Now he's sitting at the end with other people who need the money more than him I think he actually felt a little guilty and that's what I came out right there You can sort of see it and how he reacted and it was and it was really It was kind of stunning. I wonder. Go on, I'm sorry. Because this is something that we talked about a lot on the outside, but it wasn't really

discussed on the show. Was the thinking of the jury that Mike has had great success, probably needs nothing financially where he is in life. Was there a thought of that, should we not give him the win because he does not need this money? That was never talked about. That was never talked about.

At least when any conversation I was in. Every conversation, I mean, just so you, just a little context, when I was at Ponderosa, I wanted to try to execute my duties as a juror as objectively as I felt as I could, you know, acknowledging biases and things like that. I didn't want to influence other people's votes. I want to talk things through with people, but I didn't want to like, you know, bully for my candidate or whoever it was. I didn't really have one at the time. But, and so, so, so what we're talking to people is all about

things like should Nick have played that fake idol? Should he done the fake idol trick? Shouldn't Mike have done this? Why didn't Mike say that? None of it was about whether or not someone needed the money or not. I'm sure that was in the back of people's minds, certainly. But like that was never the conversation piece.

And I'll say it was 0% as much as I can factor for me and my vote. Personal story outside the game. and I'll say it was 0% as much as I can, factor for me and my vote. Personal story outside the game, how my specific relationship with them or their need of the money, I tried to put that all aside and try to assess their game in a way

that I thought they were exerting agency and control. And if Mike hits something along the lines of do I wanna win, you're damn right I want to win. And I don't even care about the money. I will, you know, here, I will, you know, put, you know, 100% of the money into whatever, you know, charitable cause or anything like that. Do you think that that would have changed

the way anybody was feeling of like, I want the win, the money isn't the thing, it's I want the win. Yes. Interesting. I think that would have changed at least one mind on the jury. Again, I'm not Mike's accountant

by any stretch of the imagination. I think so. In case anybody thought that. And I, I mean, that is just my impression based upon my conversations with people and their very specific impression and maybe you have to talk to some of them to get their, you know, just my impression based upon my conversations with people and very specific impression. And maybe you have to talk to some of them to get their, you know, whoever, you know,

they reveal what they were thinking. I don't want to say anything out of school for them. But it was, there was, let me just say, there was a lot of appreciation for Mike's game for a, for a significant chunk of the jury. And so I ultimately was one of the ones that wasn't swayed by him saying, I don't want the money. I actually took that sort of personal conflict as a moment of honesty that I didn't want to hold against him in terms of my vote.

As much as like, as much, oh my God, it would have been so narratively and emotionally satisfying to write Mason on that parchment. It really would have. It really would have. God, and I'm almost tearing up thinking about this. Sorry. Because Nick, he's a good guy. He's such a good guy.

And it's not like, oh, but he's a good guy, but his game wasn't that good. His game was really good, it was. And so it's not like, I was like, yeah, Mike played a fantastic game, Nick sucked. It was so good. That minority vote split, it was legendary. I was actually jealous on the island

that I didn't get a chance to come up with it first. And so he deserves that win so much. It's just, I took my role really seriously of trying to assess who I thought had, I took my role really seriously of trying to assess who I thought had, I thought sort of like an inventive game that I thought had such agency. I actually wrote like a whole journal article

about it the next day. Because I knew that, I didn't know how controversial it would be, this vote, but I knew that there were some people be like, Christian, why did you vote for a millionaire to win a million dollars? Just like on that point alone. And I felt really strongly about it because you know part of me was like why shouldn't someone like Mike White be able to win? Why? Why? The poor downtrodden celebrity you know.

Just enfranchised. Just enfranchised minority of celebrities. The 1%. They're very few. They're people too. Yeah, exactly, they are. But in all seriousness, I mean, like it's this sort of idea that anyone can win Survivor. I mean, we're used to seeing that in the context of, you know, this scrappy underdog who does it well, that the Davids, if you will. But I mean, I, but I think that people,

it's easy to forget that, you know, that also means there's another side to this coin. That someone who, someone who's doing really well in life and maybe doesn't need the money, I mean, they're also a perfectly viable candidate. I didn't vote for this reason. I wasn't trying to shift the narrative of like who should win a survivor season because of socioeconomic reasons. But I felt mostly needs justify that from a point of view is like, like look I wanted to really make sure it didn't matter to me.

This is an interesting conversation and I don't think this is one that I've had in nine years of doing the podcast of you know would jury votes change if there was not prize money attached to the title of winning Soul Survivor. I guess the closest we came to this was back when Russell Hance tried to buy the title of Soul Survivor from Natalie White for $10,000. And I said she should have said, yeah, fine, you're Soul Survivor. Where's my check?

But it's an interesting discussion. Yeah, it's an interesting discussion. I'm not saying that, you know, necessarily Mike would have won had he handled things differently. I think there is that possibility. Well, it's an interesting discussion. I'm not saying that, you know, necessarily Mike would have won had he handled things differently. I think there is that possibility. Well, it's twofold, though, but it's also you're saying that he also needed to... And for him, I think that there might have been...

I don't want to put words into Mike's mouth, but from what you're saying, and I was speaking with Gabby the other night, and she was saying, you know, echoing the same thing that he see, he genuinely seemed to be conflicted about, do I want to win? And was that over, you know, taking the money from people who had more need for the money? And that was, that was my read. That was my read that he was conflicted. And ultimately I, I'll finish up on this,

but like I had my head in my hands because I was like, can I vote for someone who might not want to win? And again, when winning versus money, you're right, we have to separate, we have to disentangle those two ideas and that's a great idea. But I'm like, and at the end of that whole thing, I just, I was like, I'll have to ask everyone, everyone this, because it sounds cheesy, but it's important. Ask me individually, in spite of the money or your motivations for everything, did you try your best to win?

And that's a different question. Whether or not you want to win. And sorry, I won't take up too much time. Actually, I think I wrote this down. You did ask Mike this question. I did ask him all this question, but obviously it was more- After the game was over or this was in the final travel council? Last thing before we applauded them at final travel council, I asked him all this question, but obviously it was more to the game was over or this was in the final travel Can last thing before we call applauded them at final travel council. I asked him this. Let's see

Okay, this is into Into the journal full of handwritten notes. So yeah, so I'm trying to find right points. Sorry to this Okay, so I remember I wrote down what I said when I voted for Mike the whole transformative game. I said even said despite your internal turmoil and tension over this vote, I had to vote I wanted to vote for you. I said, my reasoning was this I believe Mike's game was more strategically dominant. We could argue that all day. He controlled all these votes. He's great at manipulating information. That was really he was stellar at that. He knew everyone gave him information. So my hesitation was when Mike started indicating he maybe didn't want to win. I was floored. I just

assumed that the just get as far as just I want to get as far as I can line was just deploy. But here he actually entertained the notion of like going to a final three with me. It's what he said at the final tribal. I was like, not like I'm the best player ever or anything. I'm paraphrasing myself. But like he thought I was the biggest threat to win. They indicate he might take me.

I'm like, what the heck is he thinking? So once he started indicating they didn't maybe didn't want to win. This is why most question voting for Mike. Can I really consider can I really vote for someone who didn't maybe want to win? Is that a wasted vote? Is that fair to Nick? This is when I really had to think, and my conclusion was this, I said, even if Mike had never wanted to win, as long as his actions in the game maximized his chances of winning and were designed to be winning moves, then his motivational conflict didn't matter. He still deliberated and acted in a manner indistinguishable from the most desperately

driven gamer. Further, I cannot penalize a player for having inner conflict and certainly not when they were honest about it at Final Tribal. That's one of the key reasons Mike would have been transformative. Anyway. I mean, this is like reading a Supreme Court decision in terms of this is I need a you know, Nick or a lawyer here to give me the right terminology, but you really put a lot of thought into this.

I did. I probably sound a little, you know, it's so personal. So I almost sound like a little offensive about it. But you know, I because especially considering it's not like Mike is not like Nick was like some goat He wasn't he was so good. So, you know, I hope if he's listening to this He knows how much I respected his game and my boat wasn't personal anyway, and how much I cherish the time we had Mm-hmm. So anyway, I'm sorry. I'm gonna go to theory. I'm sorry Rob. This is great. This is great stuff

Okay. All right. We spent a lot of time on the jury and it was all it was all No, this is great. This is great stuff. Okay. All right. We spend a lot of time on the jury and it was all it was all Great stuff by the way is your journal is it all stuff that you wrote outside of the game? Is it all from the jury? It's all from the jury I tried to jot down as much stuff as I could so I wouldn't forget it. So that's a Great is it all game stuff or is it also like personal stuff that you experienced during the game? Yeah, it's a combination of both because you know, you know, the game is strategic, but it also makes you feel a lot of things, you know, about, you know, and there's a lot of revelations about how far you came from the beginning of the game, you know, that when

I was so nervous, so early and how do I feel about it now? What did I, what did I accomplish in this game? Am I satisfied? And those are the kinds of things you, you know, say ponderosa. So sorry. Yes. Yeah. Very good. Rob here. It's big brother season. And you ever notice the start of the big brother season, how fast the house turns into a literal disaster by week two, the dishes are piled up, there's cereal on the floor, and inevitably the ants invade the house. Well, flash forward to my living room. Two kids, snack crumbs everywhere. I'm one Cheerio away from hosting my own insect

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You came out and you were front and center from the get go on the season. It's sort of like presented as sort of, you know, one of the avatars of the Davids. Yeah, that was, I didn't expect that very early on. I mean, my game plan going in was, I was considering, should I lie about my profession? Should I say I work in IT or something like that? You know, if I mentioned that I have like a dual degree, PhD in robotics and mechanical engineering, is that something that people are gonna freak out about?

You know, I don't know. I don't talk to people out of academia too often. So I don't know. But I ultimately said, look, if I'm not honest about who I am, people will send sketchiness on me. And my greatest strength will probably be people wanting to talk to me, hopefully at some point,

and wanna work with me. And if I cut myself off the knees and appear to be scheming, because I'm lying about my profession or what I do, I'd be in such trouble. So that very beginning of the game, we come up to that opening mat, which by the way, I was so nervous. So nervous. I like I knew like we had no idea what the theme was that was revealed to us on the show when you saw it. So I'm rolling up on this boat and we're driving around in the Fijian Ocean. My hair is blowing around. I'm like, okay.

In my head, I'm thinking I'm going to be doing mat chat soon. I'm going to be on a mat. Jeff's going to ask probably a question. He asked everyone a question, by the way, because you're curious. Everybody. And so I'm like, okay, I got to be good in this mat chat. I have to say what I do for a living. I want to get that out there so everyone knows it.

So it's not a secret. And I know that I'm looking hiding it. I'm going to say that and try to be a little funny, see how that works. So I'm preparing quips in my head. I'm anticipating questions Jeff is going to ask me. And so I'm like, okay, he's going to be like, you there in the robot shirt, what do you do? And I had these like jokes. So it's like, oh, I program robots for a living. It's like, I was sort of anticipating like his response. It's like, how does that relate to Survivor? And I was like, okay, well, Jeff, you know, it's a little different.

You see, in Survivor, fire represents your life. But whereas in my line of work, something catching fire represents my unemployment. Like I'm preparing all these quips in my head, like, I have them ready to go. And then Survivor, David versus Goliath, chop in the banner falls and like, and then we're all plotting and laughing. And I'm like, I have no idea to go. And then survivor, David versus Goliath, chop in the banner falls. And I'm like, and we're all plotting and laughing.

And I'm like, I have no idea what this is. They try to say David Buff. And I put it over my head, because I'm like, I actually never put on a buff before. I'm like, what the heck do I do? It's a weird thing for a fan to have never put on a buff before. Put it on.

And Jeff goes, you there, what's your name, Christian? How are you a David? I'm like, uh, like I did not prepare for this question. Right. And I was always very conflicted. I was always very conflicted about being this David character because like I know what he probably means. Like Christian talk about how you're a scrawny weakling will probably lose. That's what he probably means. And I never I never saw myself as like being at a disadvantage because I'm small in my life or in this game. So I'm like, what is he going for?

Like, is it that obvious? So like I jibber about an answer, which I have no idea who he's talking about. How am I this underdog David character? So I fumble it and with the football. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I'm like, I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out.

I'm freaking out. Cause I fumble that question. They talked to a few more people and I said, actually Jeff, I'm gonna answer that question again if that's okay. I come up with an answer which is slightly less fumbly. When you went back? I did, I interjected. I was such a ham on that boat, Rob.

You had no idea. I believe it. Oh God, and so I answered twice. And people are laughing. It's like in sort of like, they're laughing sort of with me sort of way. Which is good. So I was like, oh, I'm making sort of end roads here kind of a little bit.

But yeah, so we do the whole challenge. I get called out as Big Bang Theory. In a weird way, I kind of wanted to be picked. So I was like, you know, whatever this is, it's not gonna be horribly tilted against our tribe. Maybe we have a chance to win. Well, you weren't just chosen to participate in the challenge.

That it was specifically, who is the weakest man in this group? And that's why you were chosen. Yeah, that's getting called out early in such a big role. I know the risk of it. And once I was called out, I was like, okay, this actually, of all the possible strategies I could have taken in this game,

actually collapsed them down to very few by comparison. I am now in the spotlight. I cannot afford to screw up this challenge. I can't afford to throw it or high in the background. I'm going to be front and center. So I have to do it as well and in a way that's compelling enough for my tribe that they say, oh, Christian's good. Let's not put him on the chopping block, at least for a round or two.

I needed to get my sea legs out there. So I go, we go in through the challenge, there's a slide puzzle, and I was like, okay, and I was like, and it was funny, we got a chance to look at the whole challenge, beforehand is what we do, and then, so I look at the puzzle, I try to memorize it, look at it, okay, okay.

So I put it in my head, and we come back, and the whole tribe discussing Who's guessing? What are we gonna do? What are you do? Is there first? They want to put me on like, you know be me being to win noted genius says that we should have Christian throw the bags those big potato sacks, right? We should one of the things was move 30 Set, you know sacks from one thing to another. So B was like I Christian I believe that you can know, sacks from one thing to another. Yeah. So B was like, I Christian, I believe that you can move these potato sacks. I believe you can. I believe in you. And I'm like, you know, I said something that I think just made my whole tribe's jaw drop in that moment.

I said, look, OK, you know, that slide puzzle, I think I'd rather do that because I haven't solved it entirely in my head. I'm probably a few moves away, but I think by the time I get out there, I can do it. And they all go like, OK, we'll do that. So and so and so we go. So we go through the challenge. I could have probably waited a few minutes to solve that. Instead I was like, no, just get it done and go. You didn't want to risk losing, so I just plowed through it.

After you completed that puzzle, you said, Jeff asked you about it like, wow, I haven't seen anybody do a puzzle like that and you said, Jeff asked you about it, like, wow, I haven't seen anybody do a puzzle like that, and you said, you know, Jeff, it wasn't a fair fight, I've written these algorithms, were you trash talking, was it something that, again, you're just trying to make yourself valuable to, or are you being a ham? I was a small bit of ham, but that was my second answer to that question. First thing I said was like, oh, we chose that puzzle because I had eight pieces instead of 15.

That was my first answer. And Jeff did not like that answer. So he said, Jeff, Jeff was like, no, I need to know why you were so good at that puzzle. Now I was like, I never told production I wrote sort of either puzzle algorithm. So this is not information Jeff had. But I'm like, does he know this? And I figured it wasn't trash talking. I was actually more- Well, he's seen it all. Yeah, like he's like, okay, obviously something's up here.

Because this guy, we test all this stuff. There's no way somebody should have been able to come in and then look at one of our puzzles and solve it in eight seconds. Yeah, so it wasn't meant to trash talk. It was actually, it was more to say, Goliath, seriously, it was not seconds. Yeah. So I so it wasn't meant to trash talk. It's actually it was it was it was more to say Goliath's seriously it was not a fair fight. This is my very specific hobby that I had as undergrad,

which was slide puzzles. So here's the thing. Like everyone's like I see I see the reaction on my Christian. He's like a puzzle God. Just put him on a puzzle and he'll be great at everything. That's actually not true. It's slide puzzles. I like because and I didn't like use an algorithm to solve it. I just have a lot of familiarity with them from the process of writing those

algorithms. So like so so it's more like guys I meant it as it's like, oh, you know, Chris Noble, why are you so awesome at pitching? It's like, well, I pitched for like, you know, the rock. It's not what he said. It has some weird toss the rock, for the rock. Is that what he said? He has some weird. Toss the rock. Toss the rock. And Jeff's like, I have no idea what that means. And so I do that. I say the line and Jeff goes, either does this double take and says, what, seriously?

I'm like, he was surprised by that answer. So the slide puzzles, it's interesting because there are people that like, oh, okay. Well, you know, Zeke has talked about this and Sandra like, oh, get that app on your phone if you're going to go on Survivor because you could practice the slide puzzles. I mean, Spencer, I think when that there was an unused puzzle

and I think that 10 grand bustle like it's like five piece. Yeah, Collin Stone and say, hey, but watch that. Watch this. They'll reuse that puzzle. And Spencer like traced it before he went back. This was not part of your survivor prep. This was just something that you had, it was like the lost island where this was something that was in your past where this was your destiny

to compete in slide puzzles. Yeah, yeah, and to be fair, of course I practiced the slide puzzle that's typically done. Everyone, I think that I think most people practice which is like the survivor logo. It's a 15 piece puzzle and you don't scramble, it's the survivor logo. This was something different. It was, they were heterogeneous pieces, which means they move differently. It's actually technically

an NP hard problem and algorithms, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, but the point is that yeah, I didn't prepare that one. When I saw it, I was like, I don't know that one. Maybe in somewhere in my distant past, I had done it and I was like, I started dredging it up and I was like, this is probably help you set the move and I figured it out. But after you finished the slide puzzle, you were not happy with your performance in the slide puzzle. This was you after the slide puzzle.

I did make a few mistakes when I was moving around the pieces. I could have gone like a second or two faster. It's a matter of the combinations of all the little pieces around it. There was like a move, like a left-right piece. It has to move around the board in order to get out. Objective external validation, I did it right.

Was that good? I think it was good. I think it was bad. So, I would love to hear you just talk about that. Was that only pertaining to the slide puzzle, or do you feel like that clip, did that sort of encapsulate self-doubt that you have about things that you've done? Yeah, it definitely was. By the way, once I saw that clip, did that sort of encapsulate self-doubt that you have about things that you've done? Yeah, it definitely was.

By the way, once I saw that clip, I was like, I was getting a little nervous. Like, what am I gonna look like on this show? I don't recall the last time, I remember it happened once or twice where they actually used a crossfade in a montage or this guy talks over. Davey got it also in the,

when he was getting ready to play the game. Oh, awesome. Oh, good, good, good. That's, but yeah, it's, that's uncommon. In fact, I'd like, I figured out whenever I'm talking in these, in these, uh, to the camera, like I'm sick, I'll just talk about whatever they'll cut down to what's useful. I didn't realize that they would like cut it, like, you know, do a crossfaded montage. Like, okay, of course. Um, but you know, that was, it was, it was, I think meant, um, and

was meant by me as more symbolic of of like after that moment, I wasn't like, yes, I did that slide puzzle. I finally lived my dream, one of which was to like crush a slide puzzle on Survivor someday. It was like I was living in the mistakes of it. And you could say self doubt. It's more that sort of disappointment you that you focus on the things you could have done better. You know, and that's why I talked about external validation.

I did it right. That's something I said in that little clip right there. It's like, yeah, I mean, I solved the puzzle. We won the challenge, but I'm harping on the things that I could have done better. So that was kind of emblematic of my thought process, probably for the first six to ten days of the game. You seem to strike a chord right off the bat with Gabby and you seem like that almost instantly you guys had a bond. Yeah, it was funny, there was a scene, right as soon as we got hit the beach,

we do the thing where we all introduce each other. And I go in and I say, I'm Christian, I'm not sure if you met me. I was kind of, you know, I kind of look like a ham on the barge. And Gabby's like, oh, I'm a technical writer. I write like manuals for software. I actually turn to her and I shake her hand and I say, thank you for your service. That's what I said to her.

I was like, you know, someone has to do that dirty job. So you know, translating what the engineers want to do and put them into writing. So that was sort of like, and it was funny, because even the image of it was like, like, was I was like, I want to shake her hand, but like, it was very awkward, like her hand, hand is kind of this little flop down thing. So I was shaking her fingers, like the tips of her fingers. It was the whole thing was was all very awkward. But

that they all started there. And like I had, I was so nervous. I was right, you can see how nervous I am in that episode. It's crazy. I was watching it. And like I talked to her and Davey at one point Davey had caught a I caught this gecko and it's like, man, I caught the gecko grabbed it by the tail. And look, the tail came off. I have the tail right now. It's wriggling around. And I said, actually, this is a I said, this is a concept called autonomy in nature where you

see where you intentionally cut off your limbs. And I'm like, looking at them, they're like, oh, that's nice. And I'm always like, oh, this is too much, this is too much. That's why I turned to Gabby, and that scene you saw, I said, look, I can get a little saucy with the science stuff, so if you could just pull me aside and let me know.

And she was very confident, and she's like, oh no, I'm nerdy too. We did hit it off like that, and it was it was comforting. You know, she she comes from technical background. She went to Carnegie Mellon, which is a very technical school. So which I'm familiar with, and she actually knew some people who I did research with. Yeah, so we hit it off well. And but for me, she was my barometer for how weird I was. And that's what I was

really straight. I was I what I was really worried about. Why is that? Is that if Gabby says, hey, that was really weird, then you know that you've gone too far outside the norm? Correct, correct. Also, I got a sense that she would also not be afraid to tell you if you're doing something untoward. She's not like, she just goes off on people

or anything, but she will tell me, she's like, Christian, that was a little weird or something like that. I counted on her to be my social barometer for so early in that game. In a lot of ways in that duo, she had all the power for the first six days of that. But it was useful for me because I needed as many allies as I could. I needed a voice in the room for whoever was making a decision as to who to go home. That's what I wanted.

Okay, now that decision of who was going to go home, the legend is if Pat doesn't hurt his back, Nick is out at that first tribal council. Is that the case? I estimate 90% likely. 90% likely. I mean, yeah, it's a approximation. But I did not want Nick to go.

I don't think... In hindsight, I know Gabby didn't want Nick to go either. The problem was is that there were probably five or six people who wanted him gone. I think the key is that Learsa, like in hindsight, it's all hindsight, like what if I wanted to flip it around and make it not Nick? Where do the votes go? Who do we get to vote for that? And because I like Nick, he got targeted for being lazy in this decision that was just,

by the way, passed down out of the ether. Like Pat said to me, he's like, hey, Pat, hey, Christian, go help with Carl get the palm fronds. And then it's like, okay, this is code for Carl. And he's like, just so you know, the vote is Nick. Okay, all right. Thanks for including me in the decision. But like, there was like this whole shadowy cabal of people who wanted Nick gone in the decision. But there was this whole shadowy cabal of people

who wanted a Nick going, I didn't know who was in the shadowy cabal. And it turns out it was probably just Carl and Pat just said, hey, let's get rid of Nick. I mean, I think that the wild card here is that the incident with Pat happens on the way back from the challenge as opposed to the way to tribal.

So who knows what happens on the beach that afternoon, because I think you know as well as anybody that just because the one thing is the plan going to the immunity challenge doesn't mean that it doesn't change eight times on the beach that afternoon on the way to tribal council. Right. And, uh, and believe it, I was ready to spring into spring into action for Nick if there wasn't. Now it's go time.

Now it's like, all right, now the rubber's gonna meet the road. Nick's back is against the wall. You're thinking about what do you wanna do? So I do think that things can change and it's not necessarily like a static of, okay, the person who on the morning of day three is gonna go home is the person that goes home

on the night of day three. Yeah, and I'll tell you one thing that really would have worked against Nick in some kind of counter plan is as much as Gabby and I were close and we're these allies I still didn't know what to make of her at that point because there are times when we have conversation and she would feel like a little like we're holding back and talking about the game I feel like she's holding back information that I feel like she should know so So I, as far as I knew, Gabby was part of the shadowy cabal that wanted

Nick out. And I had, I had approached her at one point, like, what do you think about this plan to get rid of Nick? She's like, you know, what, what, you know, we, we, I had to whisper her like at night and I was like, so what do you think of this? And she's like, you know, we do, we gotta do what we gotta do, I guess. Um, but I didn't really trust her that enough to loop her in on a counter plan, but she would have been critical for it. So someone else would have had to come up with something that was more viable

than I had in mind to have saved Nick. And maybe Nick would have pulled it out, but it was hard, especially in that first vote. You just don't want it to be you. And so yeah, it was highly likely he would have gone. So Pat ultimately gets hurt. What was that like in terms of like, you come out on Survivor, you are expecting,

okay, I'm gonna go out there, and then I hope I don't go to the first tribal council. Now I'm going to the first tribal council, and then, oh no, somebody's gotten hurt, and now there is no tribal council. I mean, how are you reconciling all that information? You know, it's first off, just the whole events of getting medevac are just it just felt so traumatic.

I mean, the first three days we were just poured on constantly already. So we're already we're in the throes of the game and it's new and we're like being reigned on a lot, which is the thing that sucks most on Survivor as I believe you warned us about. Long said that. Yeah. And I can confirm by far the worst thing is the rain. By far everything. And so then like I like it was just so traumatic that like you thought he was okay until we got up to walk and he just

screamed as soon as he put weight on his legs and you're like, I'm thinking, Oh God, spinal cord injury. So you're really worried how serious, how long-term and serious that sort of thing can be. And that sort of thinking and like he's, he's toast, but, and it isn't until it isn't until we get back to camp and we're going back and finally decompressing this, I can actually sort of think of it strategically, which is it's sort of a, certainly a state of execution where Nick, which I appreciated is it saved him for a round. I didn't like strategically that it was one of the men you can catch at the very beginning of episode two, I say it's gotta be one of the girls

next and that the reason for that is because there were this constant rumors of an all girl alliance floating around on the David Beach. And what I was first off frightened of that. And two, I was offended by it not because I was like, I am running around. I'm getting along with everybody. Everyone's you know, like, you know, I have a great relationship for early game with everybody. Why am I in the excluded from some key alliance of five? You know, it's just bring me the number five, it's fine. But no one tells me about this. So like, one of the guys goes, and then there's this specter of this all girls alliance

who I have no idea who would be in charge of. And I'm like, oh God, so I didn't like that it was one of the men when there was rumors of an all girls alliance. But at least it was a state of execution and gave me three more days. This is at the point when you and Nick start to get together and this is the formation of Mason Dixon

that you guys end up walking off to go get some firewood and you talk about this. Had you had a conversation prior to this? Yeah, it was, Nick was the very first person who pulled me aside for an alliance, like immediately. And he was like, you're JT, like I'm like JT, you're like Steven, let's be like Steven and JT. Like he says like immediately.

And to the point where I was like, it's like final, you know, we're going to the end, going to the end together, you and me. And so- And are you saying like, wait, hold on, hold on, why do I have to be the Steven here? I actually had, I actually said, it wasn't just Nick. And so Nick, Steven and I were Steven and JT.

And Dave pulled me aside like, hey, we can be we can be fished back in Jeremy. I was like, and I'm like, I'm flattered. These people want these final two deals with me. But they always, you know, technically, Steven lost in both of these scenarios. And you won. Could you come up with a scenario that's a little bit like a favorable for me? Should somebody do that in the future? So they talk about like, OK, I've got it. Like, how about you're Michelle and I'm Aubrey? Could you come up with a scenario that's a little bit like favorable for me? Should somebody do that in the future? They talk about like, OK, I've got it.

Like, how about you're Michelle and I'm Aubrey. Yes. You know, you do generally as a point of politeness want to point out one where they win. You have to be careful about pandering. A good opportunity might be to pick out, man, wouldn't it be great if these two characters had worked together? They could have taken it to the end. Then no one won. And you could also be like, those guys screwed up, we're gonna be smart. That might be a good way to go.

It's a good way to go. Okay, so Mason Dixon is formed. Was there any sort of spitballing before you got to Mason Dixon? I was so not in a creative mood to come up with a name. I mean, I was like, Nick was so gung-ho about it, and I'm pretty sure every one of those names Nick came up with, name. I mean, I was like, Nick was so gung-ho about it. And I'm pretty sure every one of those names Nick came up with, and by the way, I like the strategy.

I like the idea strategy, the nicknames. That's how you pitch. You go in with the idea as opposed to coming up with it on the spot. Right, exactly. So we first meet and we're like, we need a name. We need a name. I was like, well, I can't think of one right now.

That was like day one. But I'd always noted that he came up to me very early, which I appreciated. His enthusiasm for being a final two deals so early did sketch me out a little bit early on. I always noted that. I just want to point that out. So like, you know, so like, I saw a lot of people saying, why does Christian trust Nick so much? He's so scheming. Like, well, you know, we, I mean, first off, I did trust him, but I always knew, like, this guy, he's clearly a guy who would cut me, he would not take if he had to, if you wanted to, he would cut me. But yeah, so like he cut so in terms of the

name, he's like, how about Mason Dixon? I'm like, thinking, alright, Civil War, what could be politically controversial about that? I know, I can't think of anything. But yeah, but it's so it's fine. It was it was a thing. was a thing and it was like, you know, team Mason Dixon and he tries to like, you know, fist bump me. But I remember I was like, no, no, no. We got a virtual fist bump, you know, with such to understand it's there, but you know, we don't want to have the visual us working together. But yeah, he was very good at pulling together these two sums. And the idea of naming the alliances, I believe was

inspiration from big brother. I'm sure he would tell you. You know, we got into that a little bit on the exit interview. Yeah, it's very smart. I mean, like, you know, he's a crafty guy. He knows the game. It was very clear. And even though he had this, it was such a cool dichotomy, like he had this folksy charm of being, you know, Southern accent, you know, I think probably Southern accent is probably the most beneficial trade of any survivor player, I would say, for some reason, because it just

it just comes across trustworthy, even though like, you know, you can tell he's running around, you know, you know, he's pulling you aside, just pulling you aside for a final two in the first like, 10 minutes of the game, it's probably pulling around someone else for a final two. But yeah, it made him more trustworthy. Yeah, you end up getting involved in this decision where it's gonna be basically Learsa

or then a second name comes up and it's gonna be Jessica is the second name, where really, upon watching this again, Elizabeth and Learsa really get the ball rolling. Elizabeth especially says like, hey, I'm not letting my friend Lear said, go home. And so she first talks to Gabby about this. And you know, Gabby has the conversation with Jessica and be Gabby's not feeling great about

it. And then ultimately, Elizabeth is saying like, Why don't why don't we vote for Jess? And you are, you know, excited about this, that you feel like, you describe yourself as being the exact right person to handle this information. I am surprised how fast things changed, but I'm encouraged that things move so fast that I feel a hyper frenetic person like me is the ideal person to handle it all. Why is a hyper frenetic person like me is the ideal person to handle it all. Why is a hyper frenetic person the right person

to handle all the information? I'll answer your question directly first. So I was always, I always thought that going to the game, my strength would be that if things were crazy, I'm a person that kind of like just jumps around with ideas in their brain and they can maybe cobble something together really fast, where sort of like my speed of which I think was going to be my primary advantage.

So the more things are changing, the more I can adapt the situation. And so when things became crazy in that moment, it was so close to retrieval. I'm like, is everything clicked? I know exactly what needs to happen right now. I probably should tell you the untold story of just prior to that scene, when Elizabeth loots me in at some point. But yeah, so that's,

but overall, I thought the faster the game, the more it would play to my strengths. And so when it finally, I just got the glimpse that I was so excited. Because before then, like there was a shadowy cabal of people making decisions. I had no idea, because it turns out, again. You talk a lot about the shadowy cabal.

Yeah, exactly, I do. I enjoy the shadowy cabals. You know, they have great barbecues, but the, it was just, decisions were being handed down. Like, and Carl would come up to you, vote's literacy now. The vote is gonna be literacy now. Like, okay, can someone consult me on this?

I mean, he'll say, if that's all right. As if I have a choice in the matter. That's not how the Godfather operates. No, that's not how he operates. So in hindsight, it probably was just like Carl saying, it's this person, it's the end of the story. But there was like, Jessica was always a little strangely distant with me.

It didn't help that she claimed she was 22 years old when I knew she was 19 years old. Yeah. So that speaks to when you said you're not gonna lie about your occupation because that creates some sort of a distrust. Yeah, exactly. And she was trying to put the bug in my ear

that Gabby was working against me and things like that. To the point where, I mean, irrespective of that, I was suspicious of Gabby. So when we got back from that tribal council, I was like, whatever it is, it can't be Learsa because something has to change. Because the power structures currently in place are not beneficial to me because I'm not included in the decision making. So someone who's in the decision making process, whoever thinks in the decision making process

should go or at least someone related to it. My first thought was Gabby. That Gabby should go. At that six. So I'm like going around, it's like, okay, because I got some weasely answers from her, I thought, the previous day. And I was like, I think she's part of the Shadow Week of Hall. So I was like, kind of gauging it and stuff like that. It's like, okay, I think that I see if I can mobilize votes on Gabby. So I had just run around to the water well to pull Nick aside and try to set the stage a little bit, see if he'd be cool with whatever. And he was.

And I'm in phase two of my phase four plan to potentially eliminate Gabby, and I walk down to the beach, and you see this moment in the episode, and Elizabeth pulls me aside, say, we're voting out Jess. I'm like, I like this plan. This plan is less complicated than my plan. I didn't know there was an appetite for Jess at that point.

If so, I would have been fine with that, because I also felt that she was sort of a part of this, it's more of a click, I think there actually was sort of a part of this. It's more of a click. I think there actually was kind of a click shadowy, shadowy click between Carl B. Jess on the fringes were Davey Gabby. And obviously the outs was a Lear. So they tried to loop in Elizabeth when clearly when clearly Elizabeth and Lierse are tight, which I thought, which is questionable. But like, but I wasn't in that click. Everyone to a T said they liked me having me around. But I knew that a couple of votes, they would say, Christian's outlived his usefulness. At least I would be in a corner.

I would have no way to strategize around it. So I'm like, someone from that clique has gotta go. And once I saw Gabby in that play in the sand scene, I realized how wrong I was about her. Like, it's funny, because I was- In the real time or in watching the episode? In the real time. Yeah.

That marked a turning point in the game for me, that play in the sand scene, I would say. Like, before then, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know how truthful Gabby was being with me about everything going on. And I was going up to her. I was going to try to convince her to vote out there. So I don't know. Sorry, vote out Jessica, vote out Jessica, because I sort of prefer over Lisa.

And I go up to her and she's like, you know, Christian, you want to you want to play with you? I have the clip. OK. Do you want to play with me? Play with you? Oh, I'm the same? Which I did not remember me saying, by the way. It's the lines you don't remember saying a lot of times that are the fun ones. So, but I kind of walk up to her, and I'm prepared to try to subtly convince her

to vote out Jess. And she comes up to me, and she's like, I think Jess is gunning for me. Which for me was crazy. I had no I think Jess is gunning for me. Which for me was crazy. I had no indication that Jess was gunning for Gabby. It was one of the few things I was sure about that she wasn't gunning for her, certainly not at this point, Jess and B.

And so I was like, oh my God, is she gonna beg me to vote out Jess? And I just, I saw, I was like, is this real? And I was like, looking at her, I'm looking into her eyes and I could just see the panic. I saw the fear. And that was so truthful to me, that I'm like, suddenly the clouds parted.

Like, I get what's happening. No one has any idea what's going on. It's not just me. It's just these things emerge. Do you just assume? So like, yeah. So I was like, okay, well, now I just need to not screw this up.

I need to sort of play a little hard to get, but you can see in the scene, I'm just like, I'm just like, don't screw this up, don't screw this up. And she's peppering me with questions. It's like, are you bomb with Jess? I'm like, where do you get this from? Like, I'm not bomb with Jess. It sounds like, you know, it's almost like,

it sounds like I'm being attacked. I'm like, let me finish one question, please. I'll finish it if it didn't answer. But the whole I'm like, I was like, what? Could you let me finish one question, please? I finished with an answer. But the whole point of that, I was like, I was trying to get her to tell me she wanted Jess out. As soon as she told me, I would run off and tell Nick. And that point, I said, the chicken had flown to coop. And that's what I was in context to.

And I know that the analogy, I guess, is not quite right, but chicken flown to coop is a fun thing to say with that sort of cadence. So that's where I was so excited. So that whole scene where I'm like, I'm a hyper-frenetic person like me, suddenly I was in the game. I was in the power position.

I got to see how things were going. And that's like, oh, it was so invigorating. You got to play. I got to play. I got to play. And it came together at the last possible minute. And I was like, is this actually gonna work? And we get the tribal and I'm so excited

like when like they're gonna show like my vote, like I'm like, is this gonna go down? Are we actually gonna have a five, four vote for Jess? A one vote margin? And I'm like counting the votes, I'm counting the votes coming in and I see every votes come in except my vote for Jess. That's when you see my precious little face.

I'm so excited. I'm like, oh my God, the blind side actually worked. There was a real thing that happened on the show. I'm sorry, Jess. I'm very sorry. Jess is right next to me. But just that experience. I mean, that could have been my whole Survivor game

and I'd have been able to walk away from that and been like, I'm glad I didn't. But that was just, it was so fun. I've been like, I'm glad I didn't, but that was just, it was so fun. You also at that tribal council, you got to talk to Jeff, your first tribal council, and you had an analogy which stuck with me. There often isn't exhilaration without risk.

That's how I see it typically. How so? A lot of times that sense that you're sort of just transcendently in the moment, if it's not something as terrifying as tribal council, it could be like a roller coaster. I mean if you in your deepest part of your mind knew that that roller coaster was safe, would you really be as excited? Or is it because that you're convinced in this moment you're falling and you're going

to die that makes it very exciting? That's amazing. That's so good. I mean, and that's kind of a dark thought that people get on roller coasters because they think that there's a chance that you could die or at least at the very least that you feel like you're going to die. Yeah, exactly. That's and yeah, and it's true of survivors certainly.

And both. And you're talking in the game sense. But I have to think that there's also a sense in that for at least for some people you go out on survivor and there's a chance that you could really die. Yeah. There is that. You try to push that out of your mind, but it is there. I mean, this, I mean, as much as we've had 37 seasons without something truly tragic happening, you never know. It's

such an unregulated environment. You're out in the woods. There are people swinging machetes around. So there's danger there. And you do feel that, especially when you're hit with hurricanes, you know? And so we trust production will take care of us, but they're not omniscient. And but yeah, the only thing I will say for those tribal council speeches, I was worried about them coming to air because I didn't want people to be like, oh, this guy just loves making analogies. Here's a little tip for anyone who's watching the show.

If someone says something at tribal council you don't like, I mean, it's possible that they just want to annoy you at home maybe, but probably more likely, you are not the audience that we are talking to at tribal council. We're talking to the other contestants. We're talking to, number one, we're trying to please the other contestants, you know, try to make sure the plan stays on track.

Number two, we're trying to talk to Jeff so Jeff gets an answer and he doesn't harangue us and for more information. And tertiarily, it's whether or not people at home say, oh man, I like that analogy or not. But I seem well received, which I was pretty pleased about. And so strategically, doing those analogies, that was my way of not answering Jeff's questions. So it's sort of like string something together. It's like, oh yeah, that's a coherent thought.

And people are okay with that. Because I have to think that in the way that the rest of the players react to that, we didn't really talk about your threat level at this point, but I have to feel like that people are like, oh wow, this guy is good also. This guy can talk. And I wonder how much is that a factor in the point, are some of the seeds being put down here in these early days of the game, which are ultimately going to, you know, culminate in when we get

to the merge, people saying, okay, well, Christian's got to go. You're the threat level thing is very interesting. I saw it definitely run through my mind that when I talked about the slide puzzle, for instance, you know, that raised my threat level, I'm aware of the concept of the threat level. I was always trying to be humble. But moreover, I was like, it's the first 10 minutes of the game. I mean, how I mean, things are gonna, you know, we're gonna, you know, if I make the merge, then I'll worry about how my day one antics hurt my threat level. I was like, I had a very, I deliberately had a very myopic view of the game that where I was

like, okay, just get by this one vote. Normally, there's a way to worm by, it'll get more complicated to come to the merge, of course, but for the early game, you just got to get to that merge if you can. In terms of these speeches, I didn't know how well I would be received by these things. I mean, I'm pulling stuff out of my butt for these things. I mean, when I start those analogies, I don't know how they're gonna end. I have the first half of them planned. You actually see me, if you watch the travel council, Jess is talking right before I say that,

I'm sort of bobbing my head back and forth. I'm working out the analogy in that moment. So I knew I needed to deploy an analogy here. That way, Jeff didn't ask me another question. And so, but I'm just improv-ing it. And the fact that they, like people are like, oh wow, Christian, that's so deep, that's so deep. I'm like, oh, that, what?

I mean, like, I just came up with that. So like, and so I didn't realize, I think it's a huge misread on my own game. And perhaps my own, where my own lack of, relative lack of self-confidence hurt me is I should have had a more realistic expectation about how I talked would be viewed by the contestants. And it was more threatening than I realized.

It just in terms of actual tribal council, you know, and I watch these things back a lot. It is interesting to me that I feel like that the discussion At most of these tribal councils does center around you know What is it like tonight in terms and it leads to a lot of analogies of oh, it's like it it's actually it's like being at the DMV and You're waiting and you know, it's gonna be a long afternoon

But then eventually you get there and then it's like the thing that you needed to have this errand is now taken care of. And it's very interesting that it's so meta in terms of the conversation that there's so much of talking about, well, what is this going to be like tonight because Jeff doesn't come out and ask you, it's a little bit of like a dance

because he's not like, Christian, so who in the tribe are you voting for tonight? You know, it's like it's designed to sort of be everybody's like hinting about what they're going to do. What is this like? What are you guys feeling tonight before we do the thing that we're here to do? So just the fact that it's just this. There's so it's like a waiting room before you go into the doctor's office that there's just so much talk about what you know what does this feel like. Well don't don't let me. I'm not going to slip by that you were just making an analogy about what it's like to make analogy. So the meta level of what you just did is very I caught it. Just letting you know.

And this is on my bucket list for 2019. I want a running list. We're going to get somebody So the meta level of what you just did is very, I caught it, just letting you know. And this is on my bucket list for 2019. I want a running list, we're gonna get somebody on this, of all of the things, survivor is like blank, and then we'll have like at the end of the year, at the end of 2019, we're gonna go through and then have the whole list, and I wanna have the analogy of the year.

So I'm sorry that you were a year late on this, Christian. Oh, okay, well, you know, I will try not to cry myself to sleep at night, but I appreciate that. But yeah, it's a, yeah, I mean, the analogies are a good, safe way to not say anything. Not say anything, yeah. At travel counsel. That's what it comes down to.

I mean, and you know, and you wonder how many more analogies are there out there for it. But it actually, for me, one of the things I really wanted to do out there was explain and talk about the game on the show in the way I always saw it. Which I always thought was a little bit different than I had heard people describe it before. And often in terms of these scientific metaphors, you know, breadth-first searches and stuff like that. But that was a goal of mine, partly because like, I don't know when I'm going to get voted out. I mean, I could vote it out early, I could vote it out late. But if I vote it out early, and I have to come back and explain to my boss why I left for seven weeks to get last place on a reality show, it's like, look, science education is a very important thing.

Teach people about these sorts of things. I had so many in my, in my confessionals, I had so I probably had 10 times as many science metaphors you saw. And I, not because I like, I thought they would all make air. I figured like, and they were real, they weren't like, I didn't feel they were shoe horn. I felt like they were how I viewed the game. And I really wanted to convey them because they, they horns, I felt like they were how I viewed the game. And I really wanted to convey them, because they, one, I think illustrated,

I thought the way that the structures of the game move, and also would teach people about concepts of science they had never heard about, eventually. So that's so, anyway, now it's a big part. But it's character building, and not that that's your primary concern, but in terms of how we're viewing the show, to hear somebody who is a robotics

engineer, describe how they view the world. You know, it's the same type of thing that we talk about, like when when people want to apply to be on the show, like, you know, it's your job to, you know, show casting how you see the world. And this is like the opposite of that, where the show is trying to show the people at home how this person sees the world And you know while you know you might see it as a science experiment I might see it as it's like that episode of Seinfeld where they parked the car and They don't know where it is anymore And it's like that's how I see the world and you know and it's I

All much better than just you know like here's like I see the world and you know and it's all much better than just you know like here's like the you know the plane you know exactly this is what it is. I think that's exactly right. I'd say for anyone who wants to get on the show or wants to go on the show I mean like it both in terms of getting on it and enjoying your time out there really consider like what your background really brings to the show that people haven't seen before and you can really feel like you've contributed something novel to it even if you get voted out early, which is something I was very concerned about. Yeah, I mean like and I'm definitely in casting.

I mean I really embrace that. I got the first talk to Jeff, I related to my approach to social situations as something called system identification and robotics. And I was like, okay, well, this will either do pretty well or this will crash and burn. And it seemed to do pretty well with Jeff. I think that one thing I always liked about Survivor is it always seemed more ambitious than intellectually ambitious than the other shows. I mean, you can just see it and how Jeff talks about it.

Like this whole David versus Goliath thing. I know people kind of roll their eyes at it. He takes it very seriously because I think he would have that Malcolm Gladwell book, David and Goliath. This concept of, you know, underdogs, how underdogs be perceived favorites. And that's a high-minded intellectual concept, you know, at least I think so. Ironically, that's the one book I brought with me to casting. Yes. To read in the room.

So I had to describe. I had Malcolm Gladwell's David and Goliath, only because I heard on a podcast with, I think, Malcolm, that he said that. Malcolm Gladwell? Sorry, Malcolm. Freberg. Freberg.

I can see how this is confusing. OK. Malcolm Freberg said about Malcolm Gladwell that Jeff liked Malcolm Gladwell books. And I was really worried that Jeff would say, OK, you think you're a smart guy. This is really circular. So you that this was a podcast with me. I guess with you, Malcolm Freeberg said on a podcast with me,

Jeff Probst likes Malcolm Gladwell books. Correct. So you brought a Malcolm Gladwell book, the casting on a season in which Jeff was going to base the theme on Malcolm Gladwell. That's exactly right. Thank you for explaining that way better than I did. Yeah. So like so it's just ironic. Like like I didn't read the book. I just mostly I thought I would cram it before night before because I was concerned Jeff would say you know Christian

you seem like a smart guy. How many Malcolm Gladwell books have you read. I was like it's like because I hadn't read any. So anyway so I thought that was a fun little moment but like yeah in terms of analogies to wrap it back around. I mean I was one of the things I'm most proud of on the show was I got to talk about the game the way I saw it. Really cool.

Then I want to get to where after this vote happens, okay? So the shadowy click at this point, not happy about Jessica getting voted off. Now in the episode, you're talking with Davey about it, and it seems like that you are a little bit trying to maintain some plausible deniability about that Nick is going hard into, hey, it was this Gabby, you know,

I just sort of got duped by what Gabby had going on How much were you aware that Nick was really selling out Gabby hard? I wasn't fully aware how much he was selling out Gabby. He said he wanted to do he showed the scene He showed me I was throw Gabby under the bus and I was fine with that because I knew that like I Didn't know how much he was. I didn't figure Gabby would actually go home at the next vote I I think at that point like in as a result of that boat I didn't know how much he was. I didn't figure Gabby would actually go home at the next vote. I think at that point, as a result of that vote, I had mentioned before that Gabby had all the power in our relationship in terms of the alliance.

She was my weirdness detector. But in that moment, it completely shifted. She had burned Bridges with B. And so as a result, like by throwing her under the bus in a way that I would not have voted her out, I now had all the power in the relationship. Actually after that vote, I was like, I went up to Gabby and said, hey, didn't I just deliver for you?

I told you I could get Nick. I got Nick for your vote. And look, you know, you survived that vote. And I wanna make sure she wasn't regretting it because she fully expected to probably get for a couple of votes that night and she didn't. So that was, in my opinion, it was a way of getting the heat off me

because I wanted to keep Davey around, be close to Davey. And blaming Gabby was a convenient scapegoat. I know people say, just blame the person who was going home. The problem is that Davey was fairly close to Jess and probably knew more about Jess's game than I did. So getting a good convincing lie about Jess

that he wouldn't see through was difficult. Whereas I knew Gabby. And so what better than Davey was, and Davey was already suspicious of Gabby. So I was like, perfect. The groundwork is already laid. David was already suspicious of Gabby. So I was like, perfect. The groundwork is already laid. He's already suspicious of Gabby. He's like, oh, he was right, that Gabby.

So anyway, that was my thought process. But I didn't know how, and I honestly don't know how much Nick was going to then vote out Gabby thereafter. I think B was the obvious next target for a number of reasons. And so, I mean, it was hard to strategize with her. She she wasn't like there for the game.

I think she was there to be like, oh, I'm a tough person. I could I could handle it. OK, so B is not going to be long for this world that she is going to be out of the game. And then we're going to get to the swap. And so you are going to swap to Teva and you are going to go there and you are going to be in the minority, but you're going to be there with Gabby and it's going to be you and Gabby with John and Dan and Allison. And a lot of the story, you guys are never gonna go to a tribal council,

but a lot of the story here is gonna be about how you are fitting in, but Gabby is not. And she's gonna really feel a lot of insecurity about her position in the game based on the fact that if they go to a tribal council, then she is gonna be the one who gets voted out. In the real time of all of this, was that how you perceived it as well,

where if we go to a tribal council, my most trusted ally, Gabby, is going to be voted out of the game? It was a, yes, it was very, it was very real that she was potentially the target, and we were both trying to desperately switch that around. I mean, the whole fact that I was one of the brochachos that I was the brochachos basically came up exactly as you saw.

That's that's correct. That's right. Oh, man, I just sometimes it just like just you're so surreal. You're standing there with Dan, who I didn't realize was the some some hot cop. Hot cop. I knew he was a cop. I knew the SWAT officer. Obviously, I know he had this this. Did you learn that after the game or he told you while you were out there? I had someone had mentioned it in. I think someone told me in the game. Maybe Kara mentioned it to me at some point. I had no idea. He had mentioned to Kara at some point that he

was a hot cop. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure there's like, I'm not sure you know who I am, but I'm the hot cop. You know, it's like, oh, me too. I was in the other one in the photo. That was the other one. But the so there and with and with John, which, by the way, he was everything I hoped he would be when I met him, when I saw him. And I saw the casting. I loved him. I thought he was definitely smart and not like this meathead.

And I and also I thought he would probably be game for my Slam Town stuff if we'll talk about that. But in terms of, yeah, Gabby was definitely the one on the bottom. So yeah, me trying to charm Pocalypse all over the island was primarily to make sure I would not be first target. But I definitely didn't want to lose Gabby because especially now at that tribe swap, she was just so down. You can see that scene of us on the raft in the early morning where she's crying that

she's being left out. I didn't want her gone because I knew after that gest vote, I felt I had to read on Gabby. Like it's one of the people I understand where her head's at. So I was hoping we'd be able to swing it around on Dan at some point. So the brochachos were useful in the sense of like, hey, I wanted to be cool with these guys. I hoped that they'd want to work with me,

but they were so Goliath strong and weirdly obvious about it. So I was like, this is so frustrating. I was in strategy prison for that whole time and I had to embrace it where basically my entire life was talking about being a brochacho. We invent the rules of brochachos which I believe Dan talked about in his Ponderosa video and we basically really embraced it and we all knew it's kind of like a fun joke. We know this and but the real move was that Gabby, it's like Gabby,

you got to be the Alison point person. You got to be the point person for Alison. What we can do is make the brochachos weirdly threatening to Alison by me playing it up and she looks like she's on the outs and therefore wants to work with us. That was the idea. And I'm sure that Alison had her own ideas of how that would go down. But the hope would be we'd blindside Dan if we ever had to go. Primarily didn't want to get voted out rather Gabby than me really wanting Gabby around

though probably vote out Dan because he's probably the most obstinate in his glass strong. You talked about in some of these scenes with Gabby at this point that that it was a symbiotic relationship where there were times when Gabby is down and then you were able to pick her back up and then and then vice versa we never got to see the times when you were down and Gabby prop you back up were were you just you know being a little effusive in your in your praise there or were there actual moments when You were down and Gabby, you know I'll pick your spirits back up. There weren't moments where or I would be like to the point of tears

But it would be moments where I could confide in her my sort of personal feelings about you know People back at home like I could talk to her about like, you know, my long-term relationship with her She's things she wants to talk about and also, so it's not like, you know, I'd be crying and she would help me. It was more that she was a good emotional and strategic sounding board for me. Strategic in the sense that we both talk at approximately the same speed. That's not true. No one talks at my speed. But at least the closest approximation thereof. But But she's person who's willing to talk

about strategy endlessly, and I knew it was okay. And also, we could talk about life in a way that was, you know, it was both bonding and, you know, sort of comforting first point for me. So it was not a one sided thing. Certainly, there are moments where she was really down and I'm like, I just have this instinct that I just don't like seeing people in pain around me. And so I would try to make her feel better.

I mean, sort of strategic purpose too, because you don't want her thinking that I've abandoned her and she'll throw me under the bus. But yeah, it was symbiotic. It wasn't completely symmetrical, but it was symbiotic. It wasn't completely symmetrical, but it was symbiotic nonetheless. How much did you end up getting into the weeds about Slam Town with Jon?

We had a good long bit talking about Slam Town. I think you got the best bits I think on the show. It's like, I was like, I knew, I was like, I had been talking about Slam Town at David Camp for so long. I was like, you know, I was like, what should I be? I was like, maybe the comptroller. Learsa wanted to be like the secretary of state,

which I didn't realize Townes had. So, but you know, thankfully she wasn't around on the beach, so I didn't have to negotiate that position for her. You know, Learsa suggested I would run for mayor against John, I figured that was probably, that's not a good survivor political move to mount a rival political campaign against the mayor. So yeah, it was mostly, it was a lot of fun.

John was so game, and it was everything I hoped he would, I mean, hoped he would be. You'd fear that someone would actually really take themselves seriously as like the mayor of Slam Town. It'd be a nightmare to be someone like that. But you could tell, there's always a wink whenever John talks about his wrestling stuff and you sort of embrace that wink. And he just went for it.

He's he's as cool and fun as you saw in the show. And I'm thrilled that he wasn't painted as some like as some heel. Right. Where I think that it was sort of like against type where he was somebody who, you know, as a professional wrestler, you are a character, and then you would think that somebody comes out to survive or as a wrestler, oh, and they're gonna, oh, they'll be this character, but then he was like anything but a character

in terms of, he was very introspective in terms of every time he was talking to the camera. Yes, he was, and I remember the first night we got at Tiva, after we got to Tiva Beach, we built the shelter all day, you know, I'm trying to pack bamboo, you know, which was very successful, very successful and things like that. And that night I kind of pulled in, you know, John goes down to the beach by himself and I just kind of follow him out there to start talking and we start talking about, he just starts about talking about the books that he read.

I think he wanted to sort of bond it with me over presumably some kind of intellectual pursuit but it showed the depth that I actually expected of him and was thrilled to see. We talked about a lot of intellectual things. I was telling him a lot about my doctoral dissertation and what it was about, my particular brand of robotics and these sort of dynamic robots and how you control these machines that are difficult to control and the analogies it had to survivor and life. And yeah, he's a wonderful person to talk to.

How do you think it would have gone for John had he not gone out in the spectacular way that he went out? It's hard to say. The problem, unfortunately, for John is he put too many chips down on the Goliath's wrong thing. So if it had not gone out of the way for John, it probably would have gone poorly for me. Or frankly, I mean, the Davids were so desperate to not

be picked off at that point. They would have played their idol on me, regardless. But let's say hypothetically, OK, the Goliaths are able to sniff out what the David's are doing or maybe all the advantages aren't there. And so the Goliaths get it down and they knock out maybe you and a couple more David's after that and they get down to, I don't know if you want to say maybe Gabby and another and Carl are left or, you know, picking or Gabby and Davy, whatever, you know. So it's like seven to at that point. How does the game play out?

It would have been a war between Sean and Alec. Okay. What about it? What have been? There was there was a brewing sort of conflict between those two to the point where when we're deciding who to vote out as a consequence of that crazy minority vote split, one reason to not vote out John was because then Alec and John could still be in conflict with each other. So I think what would happen is there would have been Alec faction, which would have been Alec, Allison, sorry, what were six of them? Kara and Mike. Kara and Mike, I think. John probably would have had Angelina and Dan.

So I think that that's how that would break down. And Angelina and Dan, there was friction there already. So it seems like that. And then it really would come down to who picks up the Davids that are left in terms of that John has the relationship with Gabby, but then who's the other David that's left at that point? Exactly. Interesting, but probably ends up does not work out for john in that scenario either.

The only thing that john I think one thing that would have helped out john is that he actually wasn't shown as this giant challenge threat like Alec was Alec always stepped up in these challenges and was doing he was the one viewed as the challenge beast to the point where before the craziness went down at the John vote, I was thinking John's vulnerable. I don't want him to turn on his challenge game later. Maybe that's not the time to take him out

and he hasn't really been working with me. But I would be curious to see, I would love to see John's athleticism at play in one of these challenges. One of the great regrets that we never got to see is the mayor of Slam Town really just busting it out in a challenge. Right, because not only was he strong,

but also Eric Stein, who has done a lot of work with the WWE, talked about John and where he is like a master of parkour also. Oh yeah, oh my God. I think that when we jumped off the barge at the very first challenge, he did like a flip or something. I think there's a scene, there's footage of it

I've seen somewhere publicly. But yeah, I loved, oh my god, that would be so cool to see him like doing a flip. I would have been happy to lose in that challenge to watch that. But you get a lot of the challenges were sort of just, you know, endurance, hold on to something, and it wasn't a, you know,

the reward challenges were more physical, and then the immunity challenges tend to be things that were more stamina-based. They were, and I tell you, it wasn't even just like, I would have loved if they were all stamina-based challenges. Balance. Balance, I told you in your exit interview, it's the balance, every component of these challenges

is like, oh, you're gonna swing this cool pendulum through this thing and you gotta concentrate, make sure you keep swinging it. Oh, that sounds fun. And you'll be balancing on this perch. Kill me, just kill me, kill me. And then it's like, oh, you're gonna be doing this buoy. Hold it here, and you're on a perch.

Great. And then finally, everything that had me sitting on a small thing, I hated it, hated it. I have no love for perch challenges, okay? No, I understand. They're all terrible. Yeah, especially that long one. I know that one. Of course, I loved it, but we can get to that whenever we do. We'll get there. We're almost there. All right. Do you guys get to the merge and Mason Dixon reconnect?

Yes, we reconnect. I'm thrilled to see still in the game, because when you're on that swap tribe for you know, what seems like forever You wonder how real those original bonds were and they come back and and and Nick was good about reconnecting He's like dude. I'm so glad you made it. I'm like so glad that you made it And so so we reconnect and that's great. And and the nice thing is that by that point And the nice thing is that by that point, Nick and I had gone from being pretty close and palling around openly at David Beach. You can see a scene where he's taking off my shirt for me

because it's too tight. And things like that. We're palling around and it's clear that we're actually kind of pals. A couple of the merge people kind of forgot about that, I think. To the point where I think people trusted Nick with information that they should not have trusted Nick with

about voting me out. Yeah. Yeah. And you were part of this group which came together, which you described as a strike force, which was where Alec and Mike and Allison brought you guys together, and it was Gabby, Nick, and ultimately yourself.

It seemed like you were the last person to be brought into the Strike Force. Yeah, I was, but the thing is I had a good relationship with Alec very quickly. I called it the Strike Force of six. I always called it that. Strike Force is fine, I'm fine with abbreviated moniker. But when the Merge Feast hit, I had one job,

which was to bro down with Alec. I just got this sense, I bet Alec would wanna work with me. And so if I'm chugging rum next to him in the challenge, I bet he'll find that really endearing. And he did, and so he approached me almost immediately. What challenge were you chugging rum? Oh sorry, the- At the feast. At the merge feast chugging rum? Oh, sorry, the at the merge. No, that was a deleted scene from that six hour challenge.

Jeff's like, so who wants, you know, for rum. Christian, will you take off your clothes for rum? And I was like, okay, fine. If you insist, Jeff. So, but yeah, so like at that merge feast, you can just you quietly see me in the background trying to open up wine and rum. So, so yeah, it looks like I was the last one in there, but Alec and I had a really hit it off very quickly And I was excited to work with him

Yeah You guys sort of agreed to work together on the down low and there's a lot going on here because there is Okay, the strike force is coming together. It's also that Alec really Okay, the strike force is coming together. It's also that Alec really, that he seems like that he wants to sort of get Dan at odds with Elizabeth. Carl is also working very hard. That he can't stand Elizabeth. He wants Elizabeth to go out.

Was there any talk amongst the Davids as a group of like, hey, let's get Carl and Elizabeth back on the same page. Wow, it was hard. It was hard to get them on the same page. They just... And it was all over the bed or what was the main issue there? I didn't know about the bed situation from Vuku Tribe. I only saw what would happen around the Merge Beach

and Elizabeth had gone from a person who was very, she could be sort of like this big personality, but also be this like mastermind of the votes. But at the merge, she was this big personality where she'd be in charge of the chickens. She would take the chickens on a walk and like go draw this attention to herself. And like chickens kept jumping up in the trees.

And it's just, it felt like almost a first boot situation all over again where everyone's looking for someone to take out and believe me I wanted to work with Elizabeth. Has anything good ever come from any survivor player having any interaction with the chickens? Probably not. I'm trying to go back. You're on that survivor beach the chickens that you run the other way. Yeah, exactly. It's not fun. You should fly the coop. Okay.

Yeah, I would agree with that thing. But she kept drawing attention to herself. She would have all these projects that she would do. She would want to be in charge of the crab trapping. And I'm like, I want to be like Elizabeth, do not worry about the food. So the merge was extremely complicated after the vote because the strike force was like, we'll pick off two Davids.

I was like, I was not present for that conversation where we agreed to pick off two Davids first. And I was like, so I'm trying to negotiate it down. It's like, one David, one David. And eventually I was like, Low ball off. Yeah, it's like low ball. It's like, eventually I was like, okay, one David.

I was like, eventually, and then when Angelina starts to try to run things, I was like, yeah, it's like, eventually I was like, okay, one day I was like, and then when Angelina starts to try to run things, I was like, okay, how about zero Davids? You know, like, you know, if you can, if you strike force want to maintain your cover, uh, maybe we can get everyone to vote on Angelina. But I did think there was some wisdom in that, in that, okay, well, now the Goliaths will be pacified that, okay, our Goliath strong plan is working and the idea of this strike force of six would then be able to pivot at that point when you got it down to 11, but it would be the kind of thing where you would

have all your eggs in one jacket, so to speak. And so that all of the power would be in the hands of the three Goliaths that you were working with. And they would have to believe, okay, well, it's in our best interest at this point at 11, but I did see it as a potential path for you and for Gabby and for Nick to maybe get to the end in a scenario where it looked like that otherwise

the Goliaths were gonna be picking off the Davids. Yeah, I love the idea of strike force. I was so thrilled about that's why I was like, I'm naming it, you know, something I'm sorry, step on your toes, Nick. I apologize. You would never name an alliance of six. No, that's true. It's a key strategic difference. Obviously, that worked out better for him. The Yeah, I mean, I was so down for that. And I wanted to work with Mike, I felt like I wanted to work with everybody in the game. So that's really not saying anything, but I actually really wanted to work with Mike. I'm glad Allison finally appeared to want to get off like the get off the bench and help us take out one of these Goliaths.

What I think really hurt was that like I was very concerned with the fact that it wasn't just like we take out one David and we take it and then we move down the chain. It was Elizabeth and then I got the word it had switched to me. I'm like, Oh God, final 13. I'm a target. That's crazy. I mean, like, I'm going to Ozzy my way to the end on this. I mean, what is the what is the what is the logic here? And I remember the moment where like Angelina is giving her what I heard people describe as her Patton esque speech to beat the drum and get me out. She's intentional language to get people on board with this military plan to take you

out. Yes. I remember that moment vividly because I believe, unless it was confusing things, I was walking up to this group of Goliaths. They all conveniently went to one side of the island to talk with each other. It's like, hmm, what's going on? Except for Allison. Allison was kind of upset that she was left out. So I was like, Allison, I'll go, I'll go walk over with you. Cause I was kind of like viewed as sort of like their pet David that they would tell things to. Um, so I was like, okay, this is in character. We go, we go together and we'd roll up on this conversation. And we'd been talking about, you know, getting rid of Elizabeth for a while now. I didn't really want that, but it was a plan to go

with for now. And I'm rolling up and they're having this conversation and Angelie is waving her hands around and I roll up with Allison and she's like, and that's why we have to take out Elizabeth. I'm like, I bet you, yeah, you know, that makes a lot of sense to me. I bet she was really talking so enthusiastically for so long about this plan we'd already agreed upon like two days ago. I bet that's exactly what she's talking about. And it's like, and then sure enough, like as soon as that conversation ends, Alec runs over to me and it's like, Christian, it's you, but don't worry. We'll flip it around. So like, I'm like, okay. And I believed him. I believed he would. And he did, which was good to know.

Yeah. And so it did flip around. And then ultimately we ended up with that scenario where Angelina talks to Elizabeth. Now, were you privy to the Angelina Elizabeth conversation before tribal council? Yes. OK. Yes. Oh my god. Was that a bigger thing in the real life than it was on the show?

It was a huge thing. It didn't blow up publicly at camp. But Elizabeth told Gabby, I was off on a walk somewhere talking to somebody, then Gabby told me. And you gotta understand the context here, that Angelina was rubbing people the wrong way, she was trying to control the vote, and I thought there might be an opportunity

for everyone to want to get rid of Angelina, everyone. And this is before she tells Elizabeth anything. So I'm trying to position Alec. Alec is ready to pull the trigger, actually. Which, by the way, the thing I love about Alec is he flipped that script at the Vuku tribal council. Everyone else talks about flipping. He actually did it.

He demonstrated that willingness. Allison was kind of on the fence. Mike put his foot down and said, no. No. We have to get out of David first. And I think that in hindsight, this is a big mistake on my part to try to push for that. Because I think that Mike noted that in his head that Christian was pushing to get rid

of Angelina. But like, God, I was, I was terrified of putting all of my eggs in the, in the Goliath's hands, especially in their, in their, in their jacket. Thank you very much. I might, my, my, see my metaphors, I've been off the island for six months. They're all gone, evaporated, gone. And especially considering I'm just now one of the targets. So I play it off of like, Mike, you know, they're not throwing your name out there. That's throwing my name out

there. Could you understand? And anyway, so after all this, like I'd actually been trying to save Elizabeth so much. It was like a huge like emotional investment almost in it because I'd worked so hard. I worked so many different, like we're all working different angles to see if there's a way to get Angelina instead of her. And eventually there's this whole blow up that I call mango gate. Mango gate. Mango gate that Alec had snuck food away from the camp. We had this mango dried mango from the merge fees. We got the save and we saved and we're saving it. Alec went and snuck off some food. And Elizabeth.

Shades of Julie McGee. Shades of Julie McGee. A lot of the Goliaths, I think, were doing it. The bigger guys, I think, were really hurting. With, you know, they're not, my body type. They're macros. They're macros, they were hurting. I had the ideal body type, I believe,

for surviving on an island, actually. Yeah. And so he sneaks off the food. And Elizabeth sees this. and she's like, you gonna share that? You gonna share that? She chases him down the beach. You gonna share that? You gonna share that? And she knows, and Elizabeth knows that Alec is her best chance of survival here. Alec is the one we needed to flip from the story that she knew and the story that I knew. And at that point I was like, oh no, Elizabeth's gonna blow up her only spot. I can't save her.

And it was so emotionally draining. I did all that. And all the Davids had to be on board with voting her out because we could not be on the wrong side of this vote. And we couldn't tell Elizabeth because no one tells people that going home for the vote. That would be insane. So I come back and Gabby tells me right before tribal council, she's like, so Angelina just told Elizabeth that she's going home.

And it was probably one of the few moments I just like internally raged because I was so mad because like the whole, we just went through this whole rigamarole to try to save Elizabeth. We now all these Davids, all we have to get together and vote out Elizabeth, who I personally love and have to basically betray her. And I would love to be the one emotionally to tell Elizabeth, I'm so sorry you have to go. I have to vote for you. But Angelina takes upon herself who she met Elizabeth two days ago to tell her to tell her herself. It was just it was and this was the person that I was trying to get people to mobilize to say, no, get rid of this person.

They're not helpful for you. And I was just so mad. I like, like, have you had to calm me down? It's like, no, Christian, calm down, calm down, calm down. I was just raging. I'm sorry. But like, that's how I felt. Was that vote that night actually, was it a live tribal in that?

Was there any chance? Because it seemed like there was people walking around. And in the exit interview, Elizabeth had said that people, everybody was on board, they were gonna vote out Angelina at the tribal council, but then Carl said point blank, no, I'm not doing it, and then ultimately, the Davids just threw in the towel on the plant. I don't think there was much of a chance

of turning around at tribal council at that point. I mean- But there was a lot of, you know, hubbub. There was a lot of hubbub. It was primarily Elizabeth running around, talking to people, whispering in our ears. But what you didn't see is that a lot of the glass were just outright dismissive of her.

Like it was kind of portrayed as, Angelina, you gotta explain yourself. And that was there. That was definitely part of her. Like it was kind of portrayed as Angelina, you got to explain yourself. And that was there. That was definitely part of it. But an Allison had said about it seemed like she was trying to get the jury vote. And even in my ex interview with Angelina, Angelina was upset that that Allison called her out in that way. Yeah. I mean, it's Allison. I have to give her some credit in doing so.

She kind of devastated Angelina's game. That's, how often do you see that? Where, like, there's like one moment, one kind of, I mean, I'm sorry, Angelina, mistake to do that. And to the point where it almost shapes the entire rest of your game. But there's some irony there, isn't there? That where, that she called her out for jury pandering

and in effect made her somebody who could not win in front of the jury because she was being labeled as somebody who is trying to get votes from the jury? Yeah, yeah, it was. And the most striking part is that, be one thing if I did it, I'm not on the side of the vote with Angelina, someone who's nominally one of her allies was calling her out on jury management.

That's phenomenal in terms of the irony there. It's so weird that, like, hey, everybody is going to want to go to the end with you because you are attempting jury management. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It was so frustrating. You can see I barely talked to my tribal council. I babble about factorials for half a second.

That's why I get my right. My right was a Jeff time in the rest of the time. I'm just like, this is just stay out of this. Just stay out of this. If there was a way to flip it around that tribal that would I I might have gone for it. I think that Dan was legitimately angry at Angelina and put her a quote in the dog house after

that vote for screwing that up. But yeah, I just didn't see an obvious way to turn around. But Elizabeth had to go down swinging. I think the one thing about that vote I didn't care for is that as much as people were mad at Angelina, there were people who were kind of like, they were sort of like, you know, making fun of how Elizabeth was running around trying to save herself. It was like, ah, that's not going to work. That's not going to work.

And that was frustrating to hear because she's fighting for her life in the game. And I think that when you see players or this is outside commentary, players, players. And that's why you know why Gabby, she had enough dignity. That was a moment. That was a moment. The final five. Now, I mean, it was it really came across as like the cool kids who had the power picking on the one person that was being kicked out. And and that's probably why Gabby was crying in that moment,

because it really it was emotional to the point where like, I didn't want to stick up for Elizabeth too much. I don't want to get, you know, get knocked out. But like I had to very subt stick up for Elizabeth too much because I didn't want to get knocked out, but I had to very subtly point out to tribal council, like I respect what Elizabeth's doing here. And the thing for me in watching the episode, in the real time, I really got thrown off where I thought, okay, Strike Force of Six is together.

The plan is, all right, two Davids are going to go home. So you guys are in on it. Carl is like, great, I don't like Elizabeth, so get rid of her. This is the episode we didn't see Davey really at all. And then for the Strike Force of Six, then it's like, this is part of the plan. So the Goliaths is thinking,

okay, we're getting the jump on Elizabeth. And for you and Gabby and for Nick, that this is all going according to plan. And that's where I'm saying, where Gabby is getting so upset, okay, well good, let's sort of like stoke the flame against Angelina, but that you guys were in on it.

And that was not the case. No, it was like we were in on it. Like strategically it was a thing, yeah, this is good for us. And yes, it would be like good acting to pretend like this is good for us. And yes, it would be like good acting to pretend like this is like the worst thing ever. But we actually also did feel emotionally

like this was the worst thing ever. Because I mean, Elizabeth, she went down swinging and she tried so hard and you can't help but feel that for. So from an acting standpoint, it was good. But the thing is, I don't think I gave up too much of the game there, but I think that it definitely hurt that Gabby was so, at least Mike called out how Gabby reacted. And I think that did hurt the strike force,

the way that the vote went down. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. This is a true story. It happened right here in my town.

One night, 17 kids woke up, got out of bed, walked into the dark, and they never came back. I'm the director of Barbarian. A lot of people died in a lot of weird ways. You're not gonna find it in the news because the police covered everything all up. On August 8th... This is where the story really starts. Weapons. So this is the darkest days for the Davids before things are about to turn around in a big way.

And so this is now heading into the vote where we're going to take out the mayor of slam town. And this is going to be where now after Gabby was, you know, so vocal about being unhappy with the way things were going, that Mike is kind of turned off about working with Gabby. And so he's now out on the strike force. He has that conversation with you. And now he's sort of come around to, you know what, Christian's gotta go. And he talks about the looking at things from the perspective of the viewer,

that conversation that we referenced earlier on, where you were the biggest threat and people are saying at home, hey, we need to get rid of this guy. Yeah, that wasn't fun. I mean, that's the, so talking to Mike in that conversation, it was surreal in that moment.

Like he's calling out, like, is he actually telling me he's worried about the strike force? I have like, like to my face. And I was like, that was just so bizarre to me. And so I tried to patch it up the best I could. I didn't know how bad things had gone. There were some warning signs that I picked up on as things that were kind of going sideways,

which I didn't take seriously enough. At the Elizabeth vote, as I mentioned, I was told that I was the target, but don't worry, it would turn around. But of course, Christian, act like you don't know, I have no idea what's going on. I was like, okay, no problem, I can play dumb. So I got to sort of play dumb in front of all the Goliaths and like, oh, I didn't know what was happening,

which was currently the plan is to vote for me. And one thing I learned is that people are pretty good liars. It's hard to detect that they're lying directly. Just from how they're acting. It's not like they're sweating like, oh Christian, oh my God, it's like, good to see you, definitely not going home tonight. Most people are pretty good at putting on a decent poker face for these sorts of things.

At least to my untrained eye. But coming back. Was there anything that you were able to take away from as the game went on? Yeah. So one thing that happened at the, so after that Elizabeth vote, I asked like, so how was my acting?

I asked, I talked to Allison and Alec, and like, oh, your acting was great. You did a good job, good job. Then an interesting thing happened coming up, leading up to the next vote. Gabby came up to me and said, hey, I just talked to Allison, Gabby came up to me and said, Hey, how I just talked to Allison and Allison said your name is being pitched around for a vote. Um, but she said

not to tell you because she doesn't want you to freak out. I was like, that's really odd. They just complimented my acting skills at the previous vote. Why would they leave me out of this fact that my name is being batted around for this vote? I said, Gabby, that's really weird. And she's like, it's like, nah, you're just being paranoid. I was like, I should have just, I should have just trusted my own assessment of the situation there instead of listening to Gabby.

Cause that was weird to me. That was weird to me. So I, I, so I'll go up to Allison and, and, and Alec, cause they didn't know I knew that my name was being batted around. And I talked to them and they kind of lied about it. I was like, oh, that's distressing. It seemed so stupid in hindsight. I should have put it together like, oh, that means I'm the target right now.

So I kind of brushed it off and I was like, okay, we can still implement some other plan if something goes sideways. And then we come back after the immunity challenge. And that's when Nick tells me they're lying to you, dude. My I'm like, oh, seriously? And then he gives me no information, like at all. He's just like, they're lying to you. I had to put together myself that the clients are like,

I'll pull the plug on the straight force and are coming for me on my own. I really wish he just told me that. Like, it was very frustrating. Imagine people just come up to you like, guess what Rob, your whole life's a lie, bye. What, no, wait. But thankfully I knew at that point,

Davey the day before told me he had the idol. And so I was like, oh, and he said, Christian, this is for us, you and me. That's what he told me. The day before, all this went down. And I was like, oh, that's great. So I have to go on a walk and do a confession. I'm sorry, go on.

But you did not know that they had had, that Nick and Davey had found the vote steal at this point. I did not know about the vote steal at this point. Did you know about Carl's idol nullifier? I did not know about Carl's idol nullifier at this point too. This is by the way something very distressing later when I realized that other people knew about this

and I didn't. That was very distressing for me as my place in the Davids. But I knew about Davey's idol, which was great. And Nick did not at this point. And at what point did you know about Davey's idol? The day before Nick's saying, you're lying to you, dude. So right after Elizabeth vote, he tells me about it.

So I'm like, okay, I'm being targeted, but Davey, I bet I can convince Davey to play this because it's his butt on the line too. He could play it for me. So I go, I do the thing, I come back, I talk to Davey and say, hey Davey, just so you know, it's like, I think you might have to play your idol tonight. I don't see on me.

And he's like, yeah, I think I might have to play it on you tonight, dude. You know, he had talked to Nick and Nick told him what I knew. I said, okay, if you're willing to play it on me, we'll have a code word to see if it's me. If I say, if it's me, I'll say a code word at tribal to play it on me. And I was like, he's like, what should be the code word?

And I'm like, chest hair. Chest hair. Chest hair was the code word. I regret this code word greatly. So- Because that's something that you would be able to just sneak into conversation and it wouldn't bat an eye. I greatly overestimated Jess's willingness to banter

with me at travel council. He's a very different personality as opposed to like in the challenges, at travel council it's all business. So I was like, I didn't want to say something I would say accidentally. That was what I was going for. But the code word was chest hair. And if we play it for me, I was like, okay, I'll go talk to Nick again. I go talk to Nick.

I was like, to start to talk through the plan. And he had already come up with the plan of splitting the vote for the minority. I'm like, that's genius. That's genius. That's exactly what we should do. Talk me through this. And I know, that's genius. That's genius. That's exactly what we should do. Talk me through this. And I know this is his move. And when we talk to Nick, I'm sure we'll be able to get into it in greater detail. But splitting the vote from the minority,

what does that mean? So that means that the Goliaths are probably all going to throw their votes on me. And as a result, if all the votes could cancel out, we have our five votes in the Davids, which we can distribute however we choose. We could throw them all on one person, if possible. Angelina would be the, well, maybe the person we would shoot for.

But we suspected Dan had an idol. One idol. We did not know about the second idol. Nick had told you at the merge that you would ask him, where are the idols? He said that I think that Dan has one of the idols. Yes, exactly. And further, Alec told me too.

Alec told me Dan had an idol. And I was like, oh, this is great. That's one of the reasons I trusted Alec a lot because he gave me actionable intelligence and one that if I wanted to, I could blow up Alec's spot with Dan. So I thought that was very trustworthy. So we knew that Dan's one idol.

I actually suspected he had the Tiva idol as well, which we'll get to for the next vote, the nullifier, which we thought we had him on there too. So as a result, we knew one idol would probably get played. As soon as that idol was played on me, the Goliaths knew the jig is up. Oh my gosh, they know about the plan for Christian. The chicken has flown the coop.

The chicken has flown the coop. And at that point, they would play an idol on the person they thought would be the target, probably Angelina. So we can throw a couple of votes on Angelina, but throw votes on another target. And Nick's reasoning for voting out John with those other three votes was because he was close to Dan. And we couldn't take out Dan, and Dan was perceived the most Goliath strong. Right, so John was close with Dan. John was, yeah, sorry, what did I say? I'm sorry, John.

You said he was close with Dan. I was just reviewing that Nick was close with Dan. And that John was close with Dan, and get out the right-hand man of Dan. Was Dan was immune. Yes, exactly. And coincidentally, when I came back from that immunity challenge, I'm like,

John's vulnerable, this is the perfect time to take out this giant challenge threat at this point. And he had, and if he, and and also if he's not strategizing with me anymore, he's outlived his usefulness. Like I would talk to him and like it would be, I tried to take a strategy and he's like, oh, you know, things are fine. You know, things we'll let you know if we're splitting the votes with the, you know, you know, with the Davids and stuff. And it was like, no, he's not really working with me. He's like, he's outlived his usefulness. He has to go. And so, okay, John, so we throw three votes on John,

two votes on Angelina. We don't have to, and they're like, and they say, don't tell Gabby the plan. Cause they were worried about her having, her reacting at tribal council, like she did the previous vote, which, and giving something away. That's what Nick and Davy and Carl wanted me to do.

I was like, should I tell Gabby about this vote? She's gonna vote for Angelina anyway. She doesn't need to know, but I don't want her to feel hurt. So I ultimately decided not to, and I figured that I can explain the craziest situation when I get back, which you can see in a secret scene. But it was very harrowing going to that that folks we knew the plan was locked in. A lot of things happened. One thing I wanted to do was make

sure the target was on me. And not on Gabby. Because I asked Davy is like what if they vote for Gabby instead? Would you play it for Gabby? He said no, I won't play it on Gabby. I'll play it on you. So okay. So at that point, I was like the target has to be me. Or else we're screwed. Yeah. So the Goliaths are all hanging out on the beach. They're playing basically like this, this game called odds. I never heard of it. You know, odds. It's like, it's like basically a dare game. Like

you like, oh, what are the odds that you would, you know, you know, go eat that like rotten hot dog and like, oh, one in 10. And like, and if you play a game or if you if you fail, these one in 10 odds, you have to do the dare. It's very strange. I didn't understand it, but I got roped into it. I lost. And it's like I so I had to like run into the water and like get myself wet and then roll around in the sand and get like my body covered in sand.

And like, I'm like, OK, my job here is to be if they're targeting me, it's because they're worried I'm too likable at this point. So I need to like dial that to 12. Like, so I was so I was like, I'm just gonna be, I'm gonna be a complete ham around camp. Like, I have no idea what's going on at this at this vote. I mean, I'm we're all voting on Angelina, right? And I just do all these dares and basically just turn up the charm to make sure I was the target. And then kind of right before the John vote, Gabby sort of in the hammock and I'm like, I know that she has no idea what's about to go down, but I do. And if the target, if I failed and they to make this, to make sure the target kept on was on me, she would go home not knowing

what's going to happen and we'd be all screwed. So I'm like, had this conversation with her where she has no idea, and I'm just like, oh, let's talk to her about life. And it was like, it's gonna be the last conversation we have in the game after all this time together. I just remember it was just very, like, it's like oddly quiet, oddly surreal, because like, we knew the war was about to start. Go back to chest hair. At what point do you need to call out chest hair to get

Davey to play the idol on you? So at tribal council, I have to work, I realize Angelina starts talking about what a big threat I am at tribal council, which was, which is curious because I'm not supposed to be on anyone's lips at this tribal council, let alone Angelina's. And she's saying, you know, Jeff says, hey Christian, you're kind of a big threat, aren't you? And I'm like, blah, blah, blah. I started yammering about it. I'm fine, you know, I kind of want people to like,

you know, vote for me at this tribal council, and that's good. And Angelina argues about how I'm actually this really big threat, and I call her out. You see that moment. And at that point I'm like, Angelina, you're giving away the vote at this point. And you know, she's great at strategizing around camp, but for some reason she kind

of gives these signals to tribal council. And so I realized I have to now work in chest hair into this thing. Why did I choose this word? So I start to recount how I had to play this dare in the sand where I got my clothes all sandy and had to take off my shirt, which I was really embarrassed because I hate people seeing my chest hair. I mean, imagine trying to shoehorn this in to Jeff Probst. And like, Jeff is so confused. He's like, I have no idea what everyone's talking about is what he said.

I don't know what's happening at this tribal council. And I was like, I was like, it was so embarrassing. I had to shoehorn in so badly. But I look back at Davey and like, you know, I think he's right behind me to my right. And I sort of look back and he's going to be like a nod. So he caught my shoehorn chest hair reference. Yeah. So the play for me. I really thought watching that back where, you know,

you're talking about, you know, well, I have all of these bonds. And that's when Angelina is like, well, actually, what these bonds are making, that's what makes you a threat. And you talked about like, oh, OK, so in the in the threat hierarchy, you know, you're you're saying that, no, I what makes you a threat. And you talked about like, oh okay, so in the threat hierarchy, you're saying that, no I'm not a big threat, I'm a very big threat. And I thought that maybe that you were trying to ensure, and maybe that's what you're saying, that okay, I have to make sure they vote for me tonight.

So let me sort of like really debate how big of a threat I am. Yeah, that was part of it. The other part of it was to point out to everyone at the tribal council, look, if Angelina's in your alliance, she will give away who you're voting for. So when you got back to camp, you know, it was like, look, the cover story was, you know,

you know how Davey knew? Angelina gave it away. Yeah. That ultimately didn't fly, but that was the idea, is just to lay the groundwork for a future Angelina vote, potentially. So now Davey has played his idol on you, you're safe, the mayor of Slam Town is out,

and now the Davids have all the momentum. Yeah, it was quite a blow, but at the same time, at that point, I still thought we were down 6-5, which we were, but I didn't know about the vote steal at this point. So I'm like, I'm still like, how do we flip this around? And I'm just like, Oh, do we reassemble some version of the strike force? You know, so we're trying to turn up, trying to think like, what angles do we have?

And I should say, because the number is 6-5. Yes, 5 at this point. And just the backtrack ever so slightly. I mean, obviously, like I did some things at that vote to try to like coo things along, like sort of like, you know, sort of like maybe polish up around the edges to make sure that vote went down. I mean, Nick, it was Nick's plan for that vote spline, vote steal. And to do the to the vote split. It was so good and so ballsy of Davey to play that idol on me.

So, you know, they just did a wonderful job. And I feel like I just have to make sure they get the credit for such a move. As much as I'm pointing out little things I felt I did that may or may not even help. So. And at this point now, we're seeing that John is out of the picture, Dan is a little more on the island. You know, this episode really had a lot of the Dan

and Kara stuff. I mean, how much of that soap opera were you privy to, as sort of like an outsider, as David, who was not on the Goliath beach? I knew a little bit of it. I knew a little bit of their history. I knew there was this whole thing that Dan was into Kara, it seemed, and Kara seemed to be kind of friendly,

but going along with it. I was roped into it in a weird way, and that after that vote, John, after that vote, John was gone. And Dan was devastated. John was his closest ally in that game, maybe beside Kara. And he played it idle to save Angelina and not John. So when he's gone, so he's like despondent, as you kind of see. He pulls me aside. It's like Christian Christian.

I'm so sorry, bro. I mean, he's like in tears in his eyes. I mean, like I came after you broke shot. So I'm so sorry bro I'm these like in tears in his eyes I mean like I came after you bro Chacho I'm so sorry let's work together and he eventually comes up with this plan for the new big alliance of the game yeah which was going to be him Kara me and Gabby that in this game of 11 people these four would run the show how I'm so not sure that's the equivalent of when Fessy and Haley are gonna work with Tyler and Angela and go to the end? That's exactly what I was gonna say

because I know exactly the reference you're making. But yeah. Are you being sarcastic or are you? I'm being sarcastic, I don't really know. I thought you wanted to talk about Big Brother but Josh Wiggler doesn't let you on first one out. Well, you know, it's funny. Like, I talked about the Big Brother for like,

that's only season I like saw in its entirety. I talk about it, and then Josh cuts me off. What's he doing? So then you were like so, like you were crushed, and you're like, I can never talk about Big Brother again. That's right. It's very traumatic ever since. So yeah, unfortunately, Fessy, I apologize.

I'm not familiar with their contributions. He's considered widely to be, you know, the best big brother player of Big Brother 20 and basically of all the seasons. Like he's like a new Dr. Will. I don't know if you're being sarcastic now. I don't know how this works. I see how the reciprocity goes around. But yeah, so basically this Dan had this this Alliance of four in this game of 11

I'm like, okay, I don't really understand this so I go up to Kara and ask her as like Kara What do you think of this Alliance of four? What's the thought here? And she's like what Alliance of four? Like what it's like, you know, like Dan Dan wanted to get you know, me Gabby you and him together as Alliance of four It's like I have no idea what you're talking about. Dan wants to do this? So Dan had not a form of care of this alleged Alliance of Four. So it's, and so I was like, at that point I was like, you know, I probably had a better relationship with Dan

than almost all of the Davids, but like I could not muster, like he would not be a strategic help for me at this point. So I was like, oh, he's gotta go. Yeah, so it seemed like that there was a flirtation of Another version of the strike force being reborn here But this time it's gonna be Kara coming in instead of Mike white where there's gonna be a version of the strike force

That's maybe gonna be Kara and Allison and Alec coming back together for a strike force. And we see that Kara is now sharing the information about that Dan has another idol. That he came to the merge and he told Kara that he found another idol and now Kara is passing this information. And she wants her big move to be, hey, let's get Dan out of the game. And so that's being talked about as sort of the move

that needs to be made of blindsiding Dan because he has an idol. Right, exactly. So that's, you guys know that he had the idol? Is that, because I don't remember exactly how that information got filtered to you guys. Wait, it didn't get filtered to us in any way? I heard that maybe Carl had heard it at some point,

I'm not sure, But the way that Nick described it after the game was over and the way I described it at the time was that I thought that Dan found the Tiva idol. And it was not some brilliant deduction that I made. It just made good common sense. I mean, John's out of the game, so it doesn't matter if he had the idol or not. Also I found the idol. I just found the idol at the new Merge Idol that was re-hidden. So as a result, and Gabby didn't have it, I'm pretty sure. I didn't have it to Allison or Dan. I just went by the statistics that Angelita quoted, you know, 85% or so of her found by men. So it's like, okay, well, odds are Dan has it.

And also there was this whole thing right before the merge where I didn't know who had the idol. Certainly I didn't have it. I could barely look for it because I was being like patrolled the whole time. And so I was like, hey guys, you know, we are such Tiva strong. You know, before, you know, we think we're going to merge now. So if people come to our beach,

we want to make sure we find the idol and not whoever comes here that we can be Tiva's, you know, before, you know, we think we're gonna merge now. So if people come to our beach, we want to make sure we find the idol and not whoever comes here that we can be Tiva's, you know, team Tiva and, and everyone's like, okay, let's go looking for the idol as a group. Dan is mysteriously not interested in this plane for looking for the idol. He's wants to sleep. Um, so I was like, okay, all these things, these are not, this is not rocket science. The Dan probably has the idol. That's how we knew. And also him playing the idol for Angelina, did that also add to like, well, if he didn't have two idols,

he probably wouldn't play his idol on Angelina? I think that part of that was partly of it, some tertiary reasoning, yes. Okay. But then there's gonna be this turn that happens where instead of the second version of the strike force, it ends up being then another false start, where, and not a false start like,

dun dun dun dun, I'm not sure, that might be at this episode also, but where the Goliaths are gonna reconvene again. And this is gonna really infuriate Nick to the most out of you guys. Yeah, I mean, it was a situation where once we had all done this whole thing where, I don't know how or what order you want to take this,

but once we reveal all the advantages, I'm like, fantastic. We have a way of flipping this vote around that does not rely on us actually flipping the Goliaths. And we just needed a way to kind of string along the Goliaths and see if we can get them to vote against one of their own for this vote. And so, because that was what was key. We needed the Goliaths to break. Because as soon as we had those advantages, we're like, okay, whatever happens this vote, I mean, we'd have to really screw up to not get the numbers even, five-five. And then we'd go in five Davids against five 5 Broken Goliaths and there's no way they

would go to rocks for each other. So we would control the next vote too. So that is, so for me and Gabby who are members of the old strike force and Nick as well, our job was to be like, guys, you know, I understand why you made the move, you had to make, we get it. But now is the time to vote for Angelina. And they were supposedly part of the split vote plan that they were going to vote for Angelina. Which was not really going to happen until then we see Nick play an advantage and steal Allison's vote. Yes, that was what I surmised. I was about, Nick was a hundred percent confident that

that's what happened because it wasn't clear at the time. I was about 80% confident they were going to screw me over, but that changed after the vote. But my conclusion was, I didn't even care what was true. It didn't matter. They voted for Angelina. It's all we needed. And whether or not they were going to screw me over before or after that vote, before or after the vote

was stolen, didn't matter to me. I think Gabby was the one who most entertained the notion that the Goliaths had actually flipped on each other before that vote. And that I think created a lot of friction between Gabby and the other Davids who were all telling Gabby, oh no, they were going to screw you over the whole time. And she's like, well, I don't really, not really sure about that. I think that created some friction between Gabby and the other Davids. Yeah, and so we have a great moment

where Nick first, he ends up, or at least in terms of the order of operations from what we saw, Nick is gonna steal Allison's vote and then Carl is going to play the idol nullifier on Dan. So we have this great moment where then Dan is gonna play his idle, and then he plays it on himself. And ultimately, that's when Carl's idle nullifier

ends up coming to fruition. And Dan gets knocked out of the game. Yes, yes. And the beautiful part is like in the moment, Jeff says, and this is the idle nullifier. And then Carl immediately goes, bing, at that moment. It's like, that's how it played out in the real time. It was just like, and the funny part is that

Carl did not have to reveal in any way that he was the person who did the nullification. Obviously he wanted credit and justifiable so. He in fact, he insisted, when we were all trying to hammer out how to do that vote, he's like, I want to play my nullifier tonight. I want to nullify Dan. I want him to go home. And to the point where we're like, almost obligated to be like, are you sure you want

to use your advantage, Carl? Are you sure we need to? We need to. We could just swing the votes on to Allison, who we don't think as the idol, we don't think Dan would play it on her. I was like, no, no, no. I want to do it like this. And further, Nick was like insisted he wanted to steal Allison's vote for reasons I didn't

understand at the time. I've read now in hindsight all the reasons he wanted to steal Allison's vote. I didn't realize the elaborate machinations he had behind it. And I didn't know that the idol nullifier worked in that specific way where it wouldn't be revealed. It was also elaborate. So he had very, very good reasons it seemed for it. For me, the thing was, is that this was supposedly supposed to be a vote of trust from the Goliath that they would vote for Angelina. And as soon as they stole Alison's

vote particularly, she would be especially spooked about that vote and would certainly, it would kind of ruin the test of who Allison would vote for. But ultimately it didn't matter. In fact, I wanted to reassure Allison that at that vote, after her vote got stolen, that don't worry, nothing's changed, right? We still have the split vote plan. So I kind of whispered to her, you know, insurance, it's insurance, don't worry about it. Plan's to haunt, vote for Angelina. And she really gives the signal to all the other people, vote for Angelina. But yeah.

Now Carl announcing that that was his idle nullifier in that way, did that come back to haunt Carl where then you and Gabby are now only two votes away from where you're gonna flip against Carl because you feel like that Carl is being seen as the person who's getting all of the credit for the Davids working together. And if you get to the end, nobody can beat Carl now

because he's the godfather who orchestrated the idle nullifier. That was never a consideration that came into, certainly not in my mind. There was, I think Mike started pushing a narrative that Carl was a threat around this point which I never really bought. But when you're in the moment, you kind of agree, like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, the reason is, so like for me and you know, for Gabby, I'm pretty sure Gabby,

I think Gabby thought that Carl was getting all this credit and she was going to be seen, Carl could be seen as the mastermind. That was never really the consideration. I think people had a good vibe on who Carl was and that Carl was kind of a very straightforward guy. He had the nullifier, he played it right and good for him and he should feel good about that. But I don't think anyone mistook it from like,

Carl will be seen as the mastermind of this season and win in the end if he gets there. That's not the view of Carl. Carl was much more relaxed than that. In your workshop, The Science of Survivor, you talked about the idle nullifier. Is it a good thing for the game? Certainly it was a good thing for Carl that he found the idle nullifier. In any of your research, have you deduced that the idle nullifier is a good twist for

survivor? I think that it remains to be seen. My concern was that on average, the idol nullifier will on average fall in the hands of the majority. Just by nature of the fact that there are more people in the majority that will really like to find it. And the last thing you want from a kind of like an interesting game perspective is to give the majority more power. And you could be like, well, the idol is also powerful and it ended up in the hands of the majority. But the idol itself is more useful for when you're in the minority

because there are fewer targets and therefore you're more likely to get it right and knock out someone in the majority. The idol nullifier, it seems like the most straightforward way to use it is exactly how we used it, which is play it on the person you're voting for and make sure they don't go, make sure that they go home. And that's a thing that if they handed up in the hands of majority, let's say they really wanted to make sure I went home at the final 12, the Goliaths, Goliaths want to make sure I went home at the final 12. And let's say that Allison had the nullifier. Well, she would probably just played the nullifier on me, made sure I went home, which I would not have appreciated.

But from a dramatic TV standpoint, my guess would have been on average, as a result, it would be a better way to pick off the minority, which it seems like every single twist in the history of Survivor, in one way or another, is designed to prevent the majority picking off the minority. It's like that like you could almost track every single thing in the game. Like even the medallion of power was probably designed to bounce back

and forth and give each tribe a chance to win immunity and therefore even out the even out the split at the at the merge. Obviously, that's not how it worked out. But I think that was the intent behind all of them. I'm not sure the Idle of Null Fire serves that purpose, but geez, it worked wonderfully this time around. I agree, Survivor shot the moon this time around, where in conjunction, where it was the weird thing

where it was a five-five vote, where Nick's vote steal actually flipped it, where the group that was the perceived minority became the majority and then used the idol nullifier to make it feel like the minority took power from the majority. But in Survivor 35 where Ben, everybody's voting for Ben, he plays the idol and instead of Ben bomb,

it's like, oh well, we play the idol nullifier against you. So you're going home anyway. It's sort of like, just like, you know, air coming out of the balloon. Right, exactly. And that's, I worry that that's how it would be used more often than not, but you know, we only have one data point on this.

So that, I mean, sometimes things work out in ways you didn't expect, you know? And so I'm always more forgiving of production coming up with new twists, because maybe they have an idea that I haven't thought of, and who knows, maybe it'll work. So I'm glad they're experimenting. And we don't always know in the, you know,

how we think it's gonna go is how it ultimately is gonna go. All right, but now look, the Goliaths are flailing. Angelina is fighting with Allison and Angelina has flipped away from them. Yep. And so now it's a situation where Alec is a Easy target right and it's a and I'm conflicted about this because Even though Alec basically tried to screw me over twice He also still in my mind has demonstrated a willingness to flip almost on a dime.

And I mentioned in the episode that I want to keep threats around and in this game. And it's been impossible to do that because all of the people trying to flip on me and I have no choice but to get rid of whoever I can from these votes. I like that idea to keep the threats around. I like it too. I mean I mentioned this in my exit interview with you Rob that I harken back to Survivor All-Stars.

I'm sorry to bring it up but like the... Yeah but I thought that you were talking about like that you don't like that season because of me but you're talking about something that has nothing to do with me. You're talking about something I was talking about in the evolution strategy. Yeah, exactly. So like, you know, certainly you got taken out as a threat early on.

And there was, and that was like, that was sort of the first season where there was this idea, I feel. Well, it was the first season where people came back. Right, exactly. And the idea of these very present threats of people who had to go. This person is abstractly some kind of threat in the game

and must be taken out. Jenna Lewis said, look, who had to go. This person is abstractly some kind of threat in the game and must be taken out. Jenna Lewis said, look, they had their time. It's our time now. Hey, we're the seventh placers. It's our time now. Get rid of the people that won, the people that went far. They've had enough time in the limelight. It's time for seventh placers, eighth placers,

ninth placers, unite. Yes, and I think that sounds like the narrative was there. And then I think that- The meek shall inherit the survivor earth. Right, and but I remember when after Suboga got dissolved, mercifully I guess, that Rupert's tribe and they got dissolved and thrown onto Mogu Mogu and Shapira.

Yeah. Shapira. The Mogu Mogu had like this, essentially a dream team of survivor all-stars, right? It had like Ethan and Colby and Lex, I think. Kathy Fabric, O'Brien, Richard Hatch. Yeah, basically this dream team there. And they could have just, and you guys called this

in the Evolutionary Strategy, they could have formed the Avengers. They could have done this and bound together and say, look, we're all threats together. We need to survive. Let's take out all these other people. But they didn't, they turned on each other. And you guys, I think correctly,

sort of peg this as a turning point in the game that allowed for someone like a boss in Rob to really kind of take control. I agree with this. I remember this analogy, the Avengers, to the point where I, at TiVo, I've tried to do this. It's like, hey guys, we could be the Avengers. I the point where I, at TiVo, I tried to do this. It's like, hey guys, we could be the Avengers.

I was politely told that I should not call them the Avengers due to copyright reasons. That's a good reminder. It's like, oh yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. And that was really twofold also because it was like they voted out Richard Hatch, who was one of their best challenge people because Richard is strong. He's right in the water. And, you know, I don't know who else was on the table. But instead of getting rid of Xi'an in that spot or somebody who, you know, was similarly not helping in the challenges, they went on to they never won immunity together as a group. And they ended up having to vote out,

they voted out Richard, they voted out Ethan, they voted out Colby, and then ultimately they got rid of Jerry also instead of voting out Amber. Right, right. That's a little bit of a different story. Little different story, but the theme was I wanted, because I was already being seen as this giant threat, I needed other people that could be perceived as giant threats to because I needed someone else to be the target

I could not just have advantages saving me the whole way through that This is pre merge versus post merge. Right exactly. It's a little different but but the but the principle is the same and So at that point so it's something like okay is Alec the person that actually needs to go? because he is a guy seen as a challenge threat and okay, is Alec the person that actually needs to go? Because he is a guy seen as a challenge threat. And so I'm thinking, maybe this would be time to swing it around on somebody else.

I wasn't quite sure who. I was always okay with getting rid of Angelina, mostly because I felt that if I got to the end, I wouldn't necessarily need to be sitting next to Angelina to win, potentially. That's my, hopefully not, overly arrogant appraisal got to the end, I wouldn't necessarily need to be sitting next to Angelina to win, potentially. That's my hopefully not overly arrogant appraisal of my game if I got there. So and you know, maybe, you know, it would be time to flip on the David's probably too

early. Alison really tried to get me to do that. She tried to get me to flip on one of the David's, tried to get me on Carl this vote. And after I sort of suggested Carl as a potential target for it. And I talked to Gabby or like, we'll make sure like, this is not a mistake, right? I mean, we might want to get rid of Carl at some point down the line. I don't want like the fact that his name has been floated already, and then things can come around on us that like people might the vote might get found out in the upcoming vote. So I'm worried about sitting on this,

but we can't make any move other than Alec right now. And for me, in terms of the whole threat profile thing was that, yes, Alec was a threat in immunity challenges. And he was probably the biggest by far threat left in the immunity challenges. He was so good at them. And it doesn't matter if he's a threat, if he's immune and wins immunity, because he's no longer a shield because he cannot be voted for. And almost certainly as people get the chance,

if they're not immediately threatened by someone else, they probably turn around on me again. That was my appraisal of the situation. So I was like, dang it. So I basically went from a point where I was trying to keep all kinds of threats around in my head to the point where there's only one major challenge that left and that's Alec. By getting rid of him, that opens up potentially more challenges down the road that I can try to win. I'm not super terrible in these immunity challenges. My man might need to win one down the line. Right. So the idea of a meat shield is in some ways inherently flawed because that, okay, oh, let me keep, you know, Joey amazing in the game.

Let me keep Alec in the game because those guys are going to be a big threat. But then they are the type of threat where then they're not really protecting you because they could win immunity. And then then, okay, well, okay, now they're safe, so who are we gonna vote out next? Right, and so you're right. It's a flawed concept in terms of these immunity challenge threats.

It's a better concept in terms of jury threats. Like, I was an excellent meat shield for other people because it was unlikely I was gonna be immune at all of these times. So what I need is other people that I could potentially prop up as some kind of meat shield. For me, Allison was a very good one. She had a very strong appraisal of her own game,

and she was a good player. So she might actually be able to be convinced that going to end with me would not be a terrible decision for her. And at least that's what I had hoped. So people like Allison. But I feel like she was kind of over perceived as a challenge threat.

She was over perceived. I agree with you, Rob. She was kind of over perceived as a challenge threat. She was over perceived. I agree with you, Rob. I think she was over perceived as a challenge threat because she won that first immunity challenge. So it'd been perfect because then like, keep her around. People are worried. She's tall. She's definitely tall.

The people were worried that she'll win out the challenges all the way down to the end. And that's just inherently unlikely. I don't care who you are. So people would then over and over again, potentially see like, oh my God, we can't let out and get one more vote. She could run the immunity challenges like all

the way to the end. I thought that was inherently unlikely, but I wasn't going to burst that bubble, because then it made her a bigger target. You ended up in this challenge and you and Josh in your exit press really got into it, talked about all the different parts of this challenge. I've talked about it in very hyperbolic ways where I think it's one of the best challenges they've ever run.

So you get to the immunity challenge and you look at the challenge, are you looking at it like, okay, this is my challenge, this is, I can win this one. I definitely, you know, I wasn't like convinced I was gonna like win this one, but I was like, I knew I had to try. That because I knew that Alec was the target,

at least he was the target. So definitely an option I wanted to be able to send home with this one. So we needed as many people participating in this challenge as we could make sure he won. I certainly would give it my all. I have more fall on, I fell on the spectrum at that point of like, don't sit out for the nachos

and the beer. I might regret it. Hindsight, I could talk about, I wonder if it was in a grand scheme of game strategy, should I have just eaten nachos at that tribal count? At that calculated risk of taking those nachos. And I mean, Nick did that, and Nick was, I think, smart to do it, because again, he didn't have to put himself out there in another immunity challenge. Unfortunately, ultimately in the end, I needed to be the one to take down Alec.

So again, another way I could raise my threat profile. Who would have gone home if Alec won that immunity? Allison. Okay. Potentially Allison. Potentially Allison, that was, Allison is always the name that was thrown around as the target, but I was never super sincere about it because again, I like, I wanted Allison around

as potential jury threat that I could stick around and be a kind of a mutual meat shield. So I might've tried to flip it around on someone else. I would've been open to lots of things. Kara in some ways would have been in hindsight a good one because she's kind of one of those people that you sort of forget is there in a way that's like stealthily speaking.

And she was probably the person who I strategized the least with of everyone on the island. So if there was a way that that could have worked, that would have been nice. But I'm not sure how that would have flown politically. I would have had to feel it out in the moment. Okay. Six hours up there. This is one of the questions.

I don't know if you got into this with Josh. No bathroom break up there? No bathroom break up there. No bathroom break. There's no talk about from anybody of, is this a factor at all in being up there. No bathroom break. There's no talk about from anybody. Is this a factor at all in being up there? I asked Jeff about it. I'm not sure if you noticed,

I talked to Jeff during this challenge. At what point did the light bulb go off? Was that as like we saw it in the episode, like three hours and you're like, oh wait, hold on. I've got Jeff Probst here and this is now turning into a Jeff Probst AMA. Correct. It was at the three hour mark. I had bantered a bit before then. There's lots of banter.

There's one time where I imitated Jeff Probst. I tried to comment on the challenge myself instead of him. Did he appreciate that? He got a good laugh out of it. I got more of a laugh out of the jury bench. It was when it was me, Gabby, and Alec left. And I was like, Jeff, I'm really surprised you didn't do this whole thing where I was like, you got a big immunity challenge on the line. Three different players, three very different approaches. You got Christian gibbering away acting like it doesn't hurt. Zero percent chance that's true. You got Gabby cheering up fighting through the pain and Alec like a statue. This challenge is on. And that was my, that was, so I did things like that. But yeah, but the light, so I started talking a little bit, just like talking a

little bit earlier on when Gabby was there, I tried talking to Allison a little bit and Allison basically very politely told me to shut up. Gabby told me less politely to shut up. And so I was like, I didn't want to annoy people. And then when it was just me and Alec, at the three hour mark, I started to feel it. I'm like, you know what, I remember, I can, you know, these other people who are right next to me are gone.

I won't annoy them. Alec's all the way over there. I'm sure he can't hear me. I was like, very clearly. And so I was like, I'll just talk. I'll just talk, I'll talk to Jeff. And it was as you saw. I like that as you were telling the story, I see that you were going back there in your mind and I don't know if you realize this, but subconsciously that you have your hands back in the position of where you are.

And I don't know if that's just for my effect or maybe you're holding your hands back and I'm watching you back in the pose that you're in in the challenge. Oh, just now. Yeah, maybe maybe it's now ingrained muscle memory. Whenever I talk, I'm like, you can't see this there on the podcast. I'm stretched back. You know, it's yeah, it's made that challenge was weirdly made for me. You know, that challenge was weirdly made for me. Could you tell when you were talking that it was having an effect on Alec? No, I had no idea.

I mean, the guy, you know, he's so far away, you can't hear him. Oh my god, bro. I don't remember him saying those things. I remember there was actually a point of challenge, like, Alec, let me know if I'm annoying you, by the way. I'm just trying to do this for myself, not to annoy you. I can stop if you want. And remember there was actually a point of challenge like, Alec, let me know if I'm annoying you, by the way. I'm just trying to do this for myself, not to annoy you. I can stop if you want. And he just would just look at me and say nothing.

So I definitely, it was not like the primary thing was to distract me from the pain. I look, I was a little worried about looking like I was going to annoy the crap out of someone on TV, but at some point it just starts to steer into the comedy of the whole situation. Okay, now in your interview with Josh, or I think actually in Josh's interview with Matt Van Wagnan, they said that the topic of sex robots came up. It's a little exaggeration.

A little exaggeration. There was a story about how I was building, this is the story I was telling, it's like I have a story for you, Jeff, and the story was about perspective, is what I said. The story about perspective. And you know, there's one time I had to build this circumnutating plant robot

for a biological biomechanics study. And basically I had built this robot and I was very focused on making this robot work exactly the way I wanted it to work. And to have all the features that I needed. And I was working on it, eventually I got it the way I wanted it. And I took a step back, eventually I got it the way I wanted, and I took a step back.

I looked at it, and I realized it looked like a very distinct piece of human anatomy. And it wasn't until I took a step back and had perspective that I realized what I had just done. That was the story. And that was supposed to be the punchline. And that was supposed to, like, you know, and in the back of my head,

I was hoping that it would just be so off the wall, ridiculous, that people would just laugh and then like actually screw up in the back of my head, I was hoping that it would just be so off the wall ridiculous that people would just laugh and then actually screw up in the challenge. And instead that's- And then you patented that plant robot and then went on to make millions of dollars on the sex robot market. Yeah, exactly. Now, I was intentionally vague as to what part of it could have been an arm. Exactly, that's what I meant. But yeah, it was, yeah, but I was like, I sort of like said, you know, at this point, whatever,

I can't imagine all the things I did up there that were so embarrassing. Are you aware that there are petitions out there to try to get the entire footage of the challenge released? Yeah, I saw on Reddit, there's a change.org position up right now. Is there a way to vote against a change.org position? Like a negative vote? Is that possible? I think you just not sign it. Yeah, I actually ran into one of the

editors of the other night that had the claim to fame of that they've watched to go through all, had to log all of the footage. That poor man, that poor man. I mean, I think I ran into him too and I said, congratulations and condolences is what I said to him. It was, yeah, in the moment, I actually, I wondered out loud how this will be edited. And it was very meta. And it was also, it just felt so epic.

I just kind of wanted that to go all night just to see how production would handle it. Like, you know, they have to get out like lights or something like that to illuminate us or something. That would have been really interesting. And I didn't think Alec was gonna step down when he did. I mean, I noticed he was starting to nod off a bit about the five hour mark, but I just thought that,

you know, he's just like, whatever, he's going to his new zen mode. When we stepped down, I was just starting to nod off a bit about the five hour mark, but I just thought that, you know, he's just like whatever, he's going to his new Zen mode. When we stepped down, I was honestly shocked, like, oh my God, that actually happened. I actually won, but I would have happily gone all night if I had to. Yeah, and you had a lot more in the tank. Yeah, once I started talking, I really,

I just, I was in that zone. I was like, I felt no pain. I just kept talking and I asked Mike about his nachos. I, you know, I talked to Allison about some doctor stuff. I tried to talk to every person on the bench a little bit. That way everyone was a little engaged and or annoyed. One of the two. Yeah. Okay. Anything else with this challenge? The one thing at the end of that challenge was like Alex sort of walked off into the sunset. It was very poetic and like the guy was just defeated and sad and it was just for everyone just kind of felt like this ordeal we all went through. It was weirdly bonding. And it was weirdly bonding, that challenge, I wanna point out.

Bonding between who? Everyone. The group? The whole group, the whole group. It really felt that way. I mean, maybe it's easy for me to say that because I just want immunity, but like I talked to other people,

it was just kind of like this experience that we all had. There was this point where these goats came and wandered up near the challenge, these wild goat herds, and it was very strange. The whole thing was just surreal, and anyway, that's all I have to say about it. Yeah. I think it's a great indicator when the entire group,

you could tell, is pulling for one person in a challenge. I think that's a good indicator of your stock in the game at a certain point. So it's like, boy, Christian has a 100% approval rating from the bench right now. Yeah, just what I needed. I wish I could like throw away jury votes at that point. If I could, I would have happened. That's what I felt at that point. It's day 22, but it's not day 39 today.

Yes, exactly. That would be, yeah, precisely. It's a, yeah, my whole problem, that dang game, that everything I seem to do for some reason, people seem to like, I don't know why, but anyway, go on. So far. Yeah, so far to this day. Only day 27. game that everything I seem to do for some reason people seem to like. I don't know why. But anyway, go on. So far. So far to this date. Only day 27. Right. So Alec is going to go home. We got into, I think we've talked through the reasons why it didn't work out. Anything else in terms of the scramble and where Alec is going to go home? You know, Allison gave this whole pitch to me about keeping Alec in the game and how the biggest mistake of the game was, you know, when she didn't flip and join me and it was a good pitch.

The problem was like, is very convenient. Now she wanted to like save Alec and now she suddenly wants to blur the line between David and Goliath. And so I had to pretend like I was considering it. Apparently she wanted like, she was so desperate to save Alec that she tried to get Gabby to try to like, to to to force a tie No, we're not forcing a tie for like anyway, that's it. All right. So now Alec is gone And so the five Davids have finally

relinquished control from the Goliath what could go could go wrong? Now what could go wrong? And so this is at the point in the game where we're getting into everything, where Carl is going to go on the reward, and it's him and Davey, and they go on the reward with Mike and Kara, and so they are talking about the plan, and Godfather Carl is coming into the picture and he wants to go after Alison and he has the plan and he says, okay, and we're not going to tell

Gabby. Yes, that was so frustrating because Carl had very strong opinions how all these votes should go and how they should be talked about. It was not the reason why I targeted Carl. had very strong opinions how all these votes should go and how they should be talked about was not the reason why I targeted Carl. It was just another thing that just it was frustrating because that meant if there's ever wanted to be a plan that didn't go down the way Carl wanted it to, it had to be very delicately handled to get Carl on board. I mean, not like Carl like wouldn't listen, but like he would have very little patience for anything

that sounded too complicated. So no, no, no, you're overthinking it. Just do this. And like that was really hard. And now he was now he was saying, let's leave Gabby out of the vote. I'm like, oh, you're kidding me. This is such a bad idea. What if what if he didn't say that? What if, okay, hey, Goliath, everybody, like in the same way that the five Goliaths are working together, we're gonna use the Idle Null Fire, we're gonna split the vote. All right, here's the plan, all five Davids together, and the vote is Allison tonight.

It wouldn't have changed my decision making process. It was just another factor. It was like, I think I say in the episode, that's just the final data point of like, and I touched a little bit on the exit interviews, and please, I understand how controversial the Carl move was and controversial in two key ways. One is the decision to go after Carl when it's only quote only five four.

And the other decision is why not tell Nick and or Davey about it. I know this those two components. The, my thought with that, my fear in that whole end of the game was just like, I'm gonna get David righted. I'm going to like, right now I'm a big threat. And someone at some point is gonna try to pick me off and I will have nowhere to hide, nowhere to hide. And so I, so one option is to be like,

oh, just go with the David, David Strong, pick off all of the Goliaths. And then we go on from there. Um, that I was not very comfortable with my space with, with, with my standing with the Davids. I mean, I had Nick, Nick did not tell me about this vote steal advantage. He told Davy and he told Carl, Carl didn't tell me about the nullifier until that meeting with Dave, meeting with until that meeting with the

David's. And Davey was the one, most of all, who I think that he at least shared with me his idol first. And so he was the one I felt like maybe was my back channel a little closer to the end, but he was so close with Carl and Nick. Like Nick, like he seemed so close to Davey. They were piling around all the time and there are all these signals that they did. So I'm like, geez, and that means that puts me and Gabby on the outs. And my closest ally is the one they assume that I will just leave out of the loop. You know, it's like my position with the Davids was at this point, like it was, it was not particularly good.

Maybe there's a way I could have wiggled my way through those votes. Um, had have them take out Carl later. Um, but my, I'm just trying to convey my deep distrust of, um, of the Davis moving forward at that point with me in any kind of position to win. It seems like that Gabby is on board to, moving forward at that point with me in any kind of position to win. It seems like that Gabby is on board to

get rid of Carl before you are. It seems like that she is on board from at least the first moments of having this uneasiness with Carl. You're talking about it and then you guys, you don't tell her the part about how Karl says don't tell her until it seems like the morning of the vote. Right, so Gabby and I actually came, approached each other at the Karl vote

at literally the exact same time. So we were both thinking that as an option. Mostly because Karl wasn't necessarily, in my opinion, a jury threat to win at the end and therefore was less useful to me in terms of all the Davids that would go. So we came up with that. But the clincher, I knew I wanted to make sure Gabby was on my side with this vote, that I told her that she was being left out by the other Davids.

So that way she would be extremely motivated to work with me and against Carl at that vote. So that was sort of the clincher for her. That she's like, Oh, I'm just going to, I'm so ready for tonight. I'm so ready for tonight. Like she was now, uh, emotionally motivated, uh, at least started like, like, like more like she had, she had like sort of like sympathetic buy-in into this vote more than she already did. So that was what that was service in service of. You also talked about in your pre-season interview

with Josh about how you wanted to make things as crazy as possible. And you looked at this as a moment when you could really make things crazy and unpredictable because as a hyper frenetic person, you felt like that you were in the best position to handle all of the information that was flying around.

Yeah, that was my hypothesis. Yes. And the clip that you guys played on the wiggle room in that podcast, I use a very different example where I talked about like, you know, suddenly, you know, changing up the vote in a way that people wouldn't know it's me. That was not viable for this vote. But like my concern was that whoever got power in the game, either the Davids or the Goliaths, I would lose.

Yeah, I would lose. And I know this is controversial. I know what people have been saying about this. I should have just wrote it out with the Davids should have waited another vote. I understand. And I am happy to disagree with people. So if I had waited till five, three to make a move on the Goliaths, the Davids would have too much power

and everyone's thinking that's the time to flip. When we have a comfortable majority, everyone's waiting for the comfortable majority before they make the move. And here I thought that I had a very good relationship with everybody in the game. Like what a one-on-one relationship. Maybe with the exception of Kara, we got along great.

We didn't have a great strategic bond. So I was like, okay, in a game that's crazy and everyone's afraid for their own lives and I'm friendly with everyone and they like to talk to me about these votes, that would be a marginal advantage for me. And even though it makes it more more chaotic, it makes it more dangerous. It might give me more of an opening come near the end of the game that

if the game was so crazy that there's maximal fluid alliances happening and I'm in a way to wriggle through. So it was all about maximizing me punching through that to that final three. And at the expense of a game that would have been safer that to try to ride it down with the Davids and hope maybe then I can get Davids to flip on someone else other than me. Is this the roller coaster again? This is the roller coaster because it was it was the risk. And there is exhilaration in that. And I'll tell you how my

little foreshadowing how I was flawed in this thinking. Number one, I didn't know Gabby would come for me at eight at the next vote. I knew she'd come for me at some point. I didn't think she'd come for me at eight, which that proceeded the domino effect of David, David, David on the line. That was unfortunate. I would rather take out a Goliath in the next vote. Not everybody had the same plan. Not even some, you know, and the problem was that Gabby wasn't getting credit for these moves.

And we were strategic collaborators. But I think just because the way I talk, I talk like a smart person, therefore I must do the smart things. And therefore I got the credit. And I didn't want the credit. I was happy that Carl got credit for the nullifier. I wanted everyone to have a feather in their cap

so that they could potentially go to the end and say, yeah, people seem to kind of like Christian on the jury, but he doesn't have this move that I made. I wanted everyone to think that they had as much of a chance to win as possible. So when Gabby kept getting the credit taken away from her, it hurt me too. And to the point where like,

before at some point, anyway, I'll fast forward. I was trying to find a way to get Gabby more credit for these moves. But it was too late by then she was turning on me. And ultimately the problem that hurt me is that the time that became maximally crazy, that final seven, that's when the elements hit me the hardest. Not that I was like guaranteed to get to the end or anything or like, Oh my God, I was gonna win or anything, but I felt like there was an opening. Like, that vote was crazy.

That was the craziness I wanted. But you can watch me in that episode, that penultimate episode, episode 13. Do you feel lucky, is the name of it. I just looked dead. I just don't have the energy anymore. I just like, that's when I think my fat reserves ran out of my body.

I think it was like, oh great. Finally, I'm at this point where my hyper freneticism is supposed to help me and my energy's gone. So I'm like kind of like a zombie. I'm like trying to do an approximation of that, but I'm just, I'm out of gas. Should've done 200 pushups. 200 pushups, yeah.

And I think that, you know, at that point, I'm on the reward drought, the same one that Alison talked about in the final episode. Anyway, I'm sorry, but so anyway, so if I'm talking about, it was at a point where the danger was high, and that the craziness finally kicked in, but I was at my lowest.

If you had the benefit and the wisdom of hindsight, would you still make that move at nine, or do you see a different path forward for you at that point of the Carl vote? The only, most of me says I would do it the same way, and I know mostly because I still don't see. But handle the next vote differently? Definitely.

I would try to handle it a way that Gabby wouldn't target me at eight. Maybe I would handle eight differently. Yeah, exactly. I would handle eight differently. And definitely seven differently. I made so many mistakes at seven. But yeah, I mean, my biggest mistakes,

I think my biggest mistake of the game was not recognizing what a loyal potential loyal ally I had in Davey and really embracing that as a final option. And instead having had embraced Mike as more of a final option as a guy who maybe didn't want the million dollars. I think that sort of fundamental misread was a big mistake and I'm sorry and I have so many large mistakes. Let me talk all about it. The biggest mistake by even more than that was

me not knowing how I was perceived on that island. Now when you talk about that you looked at Mike as somebody who didn't want the million dollars, and this is something just to tie back to the conversation we were having at the beginning of this podcast, did you look at Mike as somebody that you wanted to go to the end with were having in the beginning of this podcast, did you look at Mike as somebody that you wanted to go to the end with because you were buying into that Jimmy Johnson thing

of here's this person that's just here for the experience and that when he got to a final three, that thing that you said that you felt like that you wished he would have said, that you felt like that maybe leading up to that final tribal council, that you were feeling like, okay, well, this is a person who is going to take his foot off the gas at the final tribal council because he doesn't want the money that

bad. Yes. And as more caveat, I just want someone who let me into the final tribal council. That's really, that's hard to find. That's hard to find. I mean, I remember you talked about that in your game in Amazon. That was the one stinking problem you had in that game was you couldn't get someone who wanted to commit to you to always go to Final 2. So and that's what I felt and that's what I kept dreading and I just saw the end times

coming that, you know, and it's not like, and please, people who are listening, don't think that I had, that I feel I had some amazing game that was unbeatable, that everyone should love and this thing is perfect and that's why I should win. I'm just reacting to what people kept saying about me, a narrative I could not shake that there were so many were pushing, which was that, oh, you can't take Christians to the end. And so please don't think that I think I'm like super great or anything. It's just like this was the reality of how I was treated. And so everything I was doing was in a desperate attempt to avoid that fate.

And I'm glad that in a way that I went out at seven or earlier, kind of the way I did, swinging for the fences, because as far as I knew, this is the only time I would ever play. I mean, and when I came out there, I knew, like I told myself that Christian, this is only, I referred to myself in the third person a lot, I guess,

the, that this is probably your only time, I referred to myself in the third person a lot, I guess. This is probably your only time because one or two things will happen. You'll go out early, people won't remember you, you would never be invited back. Or you'll get so close to the end that you'll be heartbroken and crushed and you'll realize you feel like you've blown your one chance. So, and maybe not want to do it again, if you were asked. I don't know, it's hard to say. But like, I treat it as my only time. So I tried to take a shot that I thought would open up, even if it gave me a 1% better chance of poking through to the final three,

and potentially winning, I went for it. So that was my thinking at the final nine, which was your question. And I didn't want to, backing myself into a corner where I would just be waiting to be picked off as I felt I would be, I couldn't go out that way. I mean, that would be a 0% chance of winning. I'll take a 1%.

Yeah. And I think this is something that Jeff touches on a lot of, you know, this is your adventure and you could take the safer road, you know, not get on the roller coaster and also miss out on the feeling that you could die. There is, you know, you didn't come out to survive or necessarily to play it safe. So, you know, if you have two paths of one, I feel like is safer, but could be a dead end,

but I have the chance to, you know, take the swing, and there's a slightly better chance I get to the end, then by all means, take the swing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, certainly, there's that slightly better chance I get to the end, then by all means take the swing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, certainly. There's that sort of like, that's the sort of regret minimization. You would regret not taking the swing more than you would regret taking the swing and missing.

I mean, and if I'm perfectly honest with myself, if I were, you know, I'm acting like every move I made out there was hyper rational. I'm a person. I know that I'm ultimately influenced by some fair bit of emotions. I know this. So if I have to account for my biases, like for doing a move that I try to make the game

crazy, it's because I've long had this idea, this sort of romanticized version of Survivor, which may still be true, that the game is not just about getting a big alliance that picks off a small alliance. I found that to be a fundamentally boring game if that's the only way the game is played. I thought that there was some higher harmonic, some dynamical mode that if the game was in a different phase of matter, in the pregame I talked about Survivor as a phase of matter, like a solid, a liquid, or a gas, at its base state, you have this solid this thing that's not very active or dynamic and that's the one that that's the game that's the mode of the game where one

big alliance picks off a smaller one. And when you're in that mode that when you're in that phase, that's just how the game behaves. But if the game becomes crazy enough, you boil it into this higher phase, into some more energetic phase, like a liquid or a gas, where all these particles are just flowing around. And that's just that's the natural state of the game when it's boiled to that state. And I had this hypothesis that, you know, if I boil it to this extra, you know, this higher state phase of matter, this higher energetic state, that there will be this new emergent strategy.

Some people might call it a voting block or a trust cluster. I don't care what you call it. I don't care. That where the new optimal strategy is hyper freneticism is something that I basically shaping the battlefield in a way that I felt would play to my strengths. So I had this sort of, from an anti-Size hypothesis about it. And so that did seep into my thinking.

Ultimately, was that right? I think it's potentially there. I think that that phase of the game exists. I just, you know, and I would have, I feel like if I won, I would have, people would have said, oh, Christian proves it exists. But you know, I didn't. So I may forever feel misunderstood or just be wrong.

You and Gabby succeeded at destabilizing the game, but it was a gas that you couldn't necessarily control from that point. Right, right. It wasn't. I mean, especially It behaved in ways that you didn't predict. Right. And also, yeah. And like I said, I didn't have the agency or the energy to like really like gather all the particles the way I needed it to. And then I go, and like I said, I didn't have the agency or the energy to really gather all the particles the way I needed it to and then go, I was running out of gas. So yeah, it created this crazy game

and I didn't see Gabby coming at that vote. Yeah, all right. So at the final eight, at the family visit, this is when you are now shifting your sights to Allison. You talk with Nick. Nick is upset, and I guess you did not realize just how upset Nick was following that, or maybe underestimated how upset Nick was.

Yeah, I underestimate how upset Nick was. I mean, part of, in the other part, I didn't talk about this, so why leave out Nick and Davey? And part of it was like, people seem to like me too much. People need to get mad at me. So I have a plausible case that people might not like me in the final tribal council. That's part of it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. We'll see. I got seventh place. It can't be that good. But that was the thought. And I figured Nick would come back, he would be mad. He'd be mad and he'd

look mad at me and people would be like, oh, Christian is... He betrayed the Davids. Maybe he's more beatable. And I ultimately figured that Nick was a rational actor and ultimately realized that, hey, who's he gonna turn to? Maybe Christian's a person to turn to. But it was clear how mad he was. He was more mad than I thought.

And it maintained over the next few days. Like, I'd be in a conversation with other people and he would just snap at me in the middle of conversation with other people. I'm like, I'm thinking this is either a good act that he's still acting this way or no, he's still really mad. And it's like, I was like, oh wow. Where's Davy was the opposite. I wanted Davy to be a look a little bad, but then I would say, he looked Davy, you know,

I did you a favor. I knew you had our time with Carl trying to keep him under control, but I got rid of him. And guess what? People still don't think we're working together. So I expected Davey to come back a little mad and said he's running around smiling and laughing. I'm like, what is this? And he was like, he's like, no, Christian,

I got some advice before the game that if you get blindsided, you act like it's the best possible news you ever got in your life. I'm like, okay, all right. So I had not to go to plan. But, um, so yeah, anyway, sorry. So Nick was really mad advice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's what I did. I mean, like, granted, I was never blindsided. I knew all these votes were going down, which was, which I was, which, uh, cause people kept tipping me off. Um, but like every time I come back from tribal council, like, you know, like Allison and Dan or like, you know, Dan like cries to me.

I give him a hug. It's okay, Dan. It's okay. You tried to vote me out. It's all right. And that's, you know, I feel in hindsight, I should have been more mad. I think that that prevents people from trying to blindside you. If I come back and I'm your best friend, even though they're trying to vote me out, that's

probably not a good incentive. All right. So at this point, Gabby is going to say, OK, I got to get Christian out of the game and she knows you have an idol and this is going to be the opportunity for Gabby to get you out. And she's going to go to Nick and to Davey to talk about all of this. And then it's Davey, right, who's going to tell you that you need to play your idol. But then you said in the interview that a lot of people then, but was Davey first?

Davey was absolutely the first to do it. And like I said in the interview with you, it was hilarious how he did it. It was like, it's what I learned of Davey's series of spy shacks that he had around the islands. Like, oh, I didn't realize Davey had spy shacks. It's when you're starting to realize, hey, Davey is like doing a a lot of stuff you don't realize.

Around Camp, Davey really wasn't that present. You see him as this gregarious guy on the show. And he wasn't always like that around Camp. He was fun, but he wasn't this super, amazingly fun person all the time. He's off and off on his own. Of course, it super like amazingly fun person all the time. He's often off on his own. Of course it turns out finding idols all the time. So now I learned about his sort of spy shack, his sort of spy shack pension at this moment. So as I just briefly recap, he throws sand at me when I'm down on the beach from the spy shack and I

go over to him and he's like, Christian, Christian, Christian, I'm in my spy shack. You're being targeted, we'll talk tomorrow. And then he disappears into the night. That was what he did. And so he told me first, and we talked the next morning, he told me about it. You see the moment he tells me about Gabby, I'm like, oh, instantly it makes perfect sense.

Because I thought Gabby might come for me at seven, maybe six, not eight. So she probably anticipated that and thought this is the time to get rid of me. Later on, Mike, right after the immunity challenge tells me, he says, play the idol, Gabby will go. And Angelina says, hey, do you have an idol? She knew I did. So I said, yes, yes, yes, I do.

He said, okay, well, trust me, it's a trust fall. Just play it tonight. It's not the flush right all at all. I'm like, okay, Angela, you got it. And then Nick comes up to me, he's like, dude, you trust me? I'm like, yes, I trust you, Nick. And then it was like, play the idol tonight.

Okay, all right. I know this is your story, and I know this has already happened at this point, but the Rice negotiation, how was that received by the other players? Because we talked so much about it in terms of how it was handled, how the show presented it. But in terms of being a person who had no rice and then had rice after the fact, what

was it seen as like Angelina did something that was really good or any of us would have done it or she wasn't gonna win the challenge anyway, so what did it matter? Well, in that moment, like Mike White, like kind of whispers to me is like, should I step out of the challenge for the rice? Like when they offered those, you know, did somebody step out for it?

So other people were considering doing it, but Angelina is the one who stepped forward and did it. I mean, like in terms of how it was perceived around camp, I mean, yeah, she was very insistent of how like, you know, I'll do the negotiations, or at least she's offering to do it, but no one else is going to want to do the negotiation. So she said she brought us around camps, like, here's what we're going to offer, we should, I figured we'll

offer this, this, this, this, this. And I think everyone's like, Okay, fine. All right. Just just handle it, Anjali. And I was, I was thrilled that she handled it. You know, I'm glad that she did that. In terms of how it was perceived. After the whole thing went down. Yeah, we definitely noted when she would bring it up around camp that she got the rice. And so, like we're very aware we were and I think maybe, you know, a better move for Angelina would just never talk about it. And

she didn't want to talk about it. but I think that she there was a temptation of a couple times she wanted to use that to her advantage. And I don't think it worked out the way she hoped it would. What was your reaction in terms of learning that Gabby was coming for you? Because we saw that the reaction that you had to go and talk to Nick and sort of let me get everybody else that who is working with me potentially to not go on along with the plan. But I don't think we've really got your feeling about here's my best friend in the game who I've worked with since day one and now she's coming after me.

Did you understand it? I definitely understood it from a strategic perspective and I I keep saying to people that look, I knew at some point Gabby would have to come for me. I knew she would because I kept getting the credit. And I knew I never expected her a person to ride with me to the end of the final three. If she wanted to, I'd be happy to do it, but it would have been a bad deal for her. To the benefit of me, I feel just from our standpoint in the game.

So I was more weirdly proud of her, like good, she's standing up for her own game. I hope this doesn't work. It sucks. I'd prefer to play my idol at seven instead of eight. But I understood it. I mean, it wasn't until after she was gone, I started to process what it was like to actually have her not be there. We had spent every day of the game together.

Not only that, every single reward, and not reward, we were on together. So basically we were together every hour of the game for 32 days. Did you potentially feed off of her energy to some degree, and then when she was gone, I mean, do you think that there was anything, I don't know if I'm using the right word,

was sort of like psychosomatic in terms of that your partner for the game now was gone, she had turned on you, it didn't work, she was gone. And then, and now you've been through this big emotional trauma, and that's when you hit the wall. I, they definitely coincide temporally that she was gone and that did have an effect. Mostly because she was the person who I could sit down and just game things out with.

Boom, boom, boom, boom. And we had this and that was our sort of that was sort of our game relationship. And we could where we had that same tempo with how we would talk and just have like it's almost like a pillar of your game that you've built up for so long is now gone and that's just like that sort of silence is deafening. I mean you you you when you get back to camp you're like oh my god this person's gone you know you say that for everybody but this time I was just like oh, God, like, who do I, you know, I have these relationships with everybody, I can talk to people, but it

wasn't the same thing as what Gabby and I went through in that game. And I don't think that was the, the primary cause of me feeling so like just looking so dejected after that vote. I was still gaming ready to go, I was in a weird way excited because four people tipped me off and went out of school and we're working against each other, but we're still, you know, in some to varying degrees working with me. So that was strategically exciting, but it was hard. I mean, I remember I said, you know, my confessional and I didn't know if they make air, but like, you know, I was a lot of things to a lot of people in that game.

You know, I was a Mason to Dixon, you know, to a Dixon. I was, I was the house of the Rochachos. I was the comptroller of Slam Town. At the merge, I was the Elizabeth Whisperer. I was the person who would help her with her things. But Gabby and I, we were just Christian and Gabby. There was no cutesy name for it. We were just, you know, we were just partners in the game. There was no cutesy name for it. We were just partners in the game.

So in a way that felt kind of, yeah, I realized at that point how unique of a bond it was. And- You adapted yourself a little bit with each person that you worked with, and then you were your true self when you got to work with Gabby. I think that's fairly accurate. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's a, yeah. So it's, so, and that's hard. And then they're gone. And you're like, OK, now you have all of these sort of, you know, I liked all the people and we got along really well. But there was sort of like a different character that you put on with everybody.

You know, you're a different person to Nick than you are to Dave. You're a different person to Nick than you are to Davey, you're a different person to Allison than you are to Kara. That's just, I think, how people play Survivor. And yeah, it was the kind of person, she was the person I would talk about real life stuff with the most.

So here you are now at the final seven, Gabby is gone. What are you thinking in terms of, okay, this is going to be the plan to move forward? Plan is to split up Davey and Nick. See if there's a way that they can be split up somehow. Find an idol. That'd be important because one just, I just played mine. I got to find my next one. But really any target target, any target that's not me. I'm hoping that now my idol's out of the game, so I'm like, in a way, the target's off me a little bit. Because I think one of the reasons I was being gunned for

is because I told the Davids about my idol, and I was like, okay, happy to get rid of it now. I'll go find another one. I'll do another Brett's first search. The times I really looked for an idol are the times I found an idol. So I was like, I can go find another one. I'll do another Brett's first search. The times I really looked for an idol are the times I found an idol. So I was like, I can do that again. But Nick threw you off.

Nick threw me off? With his fake idol that he hid and then found in front of you. And that did prevent you from finding the idol that Davey found. Yeah, exactly, it did. It was a very effective trick. And it was a trick on a lot of us. I

was one of them, but also Angelina and Mike were there. Also, Davey was aware of it. He said he watched the whole incident from his spy shack. Wow. Yeah. There's almost this mythical quality to Davey sometimes. He seems to be kind of like the sort of ghost that's everywhere. I wonder how effective it all was, but it's hard to tell, but he was just so, he was so proud of his little spy shacks. I wish they had shown a little bit more

of me and Davey's relationship, I would love to see, but also Davey's crazy antics around the island. Let me ask that I have the scientist here, did Davey make the right decision when he had the opportunity to play the game, calculated risk up the wazoo, and he had the opportunity, he was going to be safe, but he had the opportunity that he had the idol and he could have extended its powers for multiple votes. Did you think that he played the odds wrong? I'm not talking about the game where you have to eat a rotten hot dog or jump in the

ocean. Yeah. I think they in that that vote, the craziness particularly, I think is the right move to survive that vote. And his name was floated around a lot. Yeah. But he had immunity no matter what, no matter what happened, he was going to be immune for that vote.

Oh, for the final seven vote because of the idol that he found, right? Yes, he could not lose that. He could only lose his vote. Is that true? I mean, I thought the whole point was to extend his powers by one more round so he could hold onto it to final six. Right, and he would keep his vote for all the rounds. As I understood it, that he had the idol no matter what,

but if he struck out, then if he dropped the football, he would then lose his vote. But no matter what, he had that idol for that final seven. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, it's like the classic Ghost Island game that Chris Noble played, which we had not seen, by the way, if you were curious. So I don't think that that seven vote odd number is so

important. And I could totally see why he didn't want to do that. I mean, that vote came down to a vote split of, you know, of margin of one. Like if Nick wanted to, he could have swung that vote back on Allison and say, he decided to take out me instead. So I think that one vote was so important at that vote. I think that I don't question David's decision at all.

OK, I'm not second guessing myself. I'm just like, I feel like I defer to people that are smarter than me in these matters to tell me, like absolutely not, no, you already definitely made the right decision. No, no, I mean, that's just kind of you to flatter me like that. But really for me, I felt like he was gonna have,

he probably would have felt the need to play the idol at that tribal council anyway. So why take any kind of cost associated with playing it, with trying to play it at the next vote instead? That's the way I kind of look at it from his perspective. That's just my opinion. If that vote was crazy enough, it could have potentially gone down different ways where he didn't need to play it.

Who knows? I know you said that you feel like you misplayed this round. What could you have done differently at the final seven? One I trusted Mike too much. I gave him too much information. I should have, I was operating mostly on instinct at that point, which I hate doing, where I would get a piece of information

and I would try to, okay, do I funnel this to someone? Yes, no, go. I wouldn't like, normally I would say, don't think about this first, what should you do? And instead I just sort of like, didn't have the mental energy to think about these things. So I just tell stuff to Mike. I would tell, so I like, and that, and that was, and like, that was a huge mistake. Cause like, um, Mike was the deciding vote at this point.

And I thought my, my simple reasoning was that I was working with Mike on the sly late at night and I was telling him, I won't lie to you about anything and That I thought that my honesty would and toward taking him to the finals, which I promised him the finals And saying look, I'm not lying to you. I'm giving all information. I'm empowering us to go to the end go to the end with me But he was more ready to win than I, he was more playing to win than I had realized. So the other mistake I did is I wish I had really thrown in my lot with Davey in my mind.

Like I shouldn't have trusted Mike as much, I should have trusted Davey more. In fact, when he told me about his final seven idol, at first I didn't believe it. I had to like do some weird like, kind of like mental jujitsu on myself to figure out like a test that I could pull on him to see if it was real. So like I did this thing where I said, Hey, Davey, I just talked to, I just got approached.

You might be the target tonight. And a lot of the votes look like they might be piling on you. I don't know. But they're wanting to know if I'll vote for you. But I know you're going to be safe. Should I vote for you too to cover for this? I'll know where you can recognize me next round. And so he immediately said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, vote for me. I'm like, oh wow, he's safe. He would not tell me that if he wasn't safe. So, so cause we'd never seen a shot clock idol. I know we've seen this floated in various, in the various

uh, was it the survivor fist, the think tank, you know, the, the, the, the Survivor Fist, the Think Tank? You know, they have a shot clock item. Well, what about in the first vote of season 35 that there was a one night idol? Yeah, I mean, I consider the versions of it. Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, you could definitely say that there's like that kind of version of it. And every idol technically has a shot clock on it.

It has to be played at Final Five. Yeah, but the idea of this kind of arbitrary, like, at seven, such a weird number. I mean, but like, and we hadn't seen Ghost Island to see it used before. Anyway, so anyway, so I wish I was like testing Davey when I should have spent more energy testing, you know, like really evaluating my relationship with Mike and Nick.

Also, Nick did the classic move that I think a lot of people do on Survivor is that Mike had tipped off Nick that Davey was coming for him and I might be working with Davey. So Nick comes up to me and it's like, hey dude, you think I'm in trouble tonight? And that's what you do a lot of times, but people do on Survivor, they come up to you like it's a test of your loyalty. And I said, look, Nick, I think you're fine, which he was by the way, we never, we weren't coming after him.

But I should have said, but I said, no, look, if you feel like you have to play your idol, I will not blame you, but I don't think anyone's coming for you tonight. So, which was in a way though, just not dishonest, because we were, Dave and I, working against him at that point, so he's correctly sniffing out the general malaise of that we weren't working with him.

So, and I should have been able to see that trick, because everyone I think in the game does that kind of trick If they think someone's lying to them, but not that Nick wasn't awesome and great doing it I'm saying that like I should it's something that I should have seen and so after I got voted out I was like test that was a test. So that's why so I didn't see that coming to I made a whole bunch of mistakes at that vote And I should have seen that like things felt a little different as people talk about on the front line sided. And I didn't know if it was just because this vote was crazy. And they're, you know, crazier in my opinion than most votes. And I just wasn't used to it. But as soon as a tribal council, I saw of one vote that wasn't going the way I thought it was going to go. I'm like, oh, it's me.

It's me. I'm left out of the vote. They're taking me out now. And sure enough ended in the Christian. Yeah. You stood up, told everybody a good game. You wish them luck. Is that the kind of thing that you need to like program in your head to, you know, sort of like have a, a, you know, polite exit from the game of like, okay, just like, uh, just like, and they just program that in. Like, okay, when, in case it's me, let me stand up.

Or is that just your natural reaction? Well, I think that was my natural reaction. I think if it's not your natural reaction, if you're a person playing the game, I would, I'd recommend making it your natural reaction if you could, because it was more that, you know, you probably see me when I'm losing these rewards, I was like, hey guys, have a good time, have a good a good time because I just instinctively I want people to think that I'm

Mad at them. Yeah, and so that is sort of my instinct. It's like like guys. I'm not mad at you Yeah, you told Emily go have watch watch a movie watch a movie watch a movie Yeah, exactly what we typically do is we watch movies separately and compare notes Compare notes on movies you watch separate. Oh you watch the same movie separately and then come back. Yeah, exactly. Like a podcast. Kind of like a podcast, exactly. You come together and have a little review session, exactly.

So yeah, so pretty much everything I did, I never wanted people to think I was mad at them, which I think is not necessarily a good idea sometimes. Yeah, they went to reward you, like, hey guys, seriously, have fun. Yeah, exactly. And they don't feel bad about not taking you, which in a way you want to exact some kind

of political toll for people not taking you. But I sometimes it didn't have the heart to do it. Christian, you went on this survivor experience. What else? What did you learn about yourself? I learned that I can relate to a lot more kinds of people than I realized I could or than I would have thought I could. I say many times in the game that I was surprised to be a brochacho and things like that. And I learned that there's kind of an audience for like my sort

of techno babble, which is which is really heartening. I was always worried that people would sort of be like, ah, Christian, he's that weirdo. He's that weirdo who talks about algorithms and things like that, you know, whatever, let him do his thing. But really, I think that I learned that when you sort of talk about these things with sort of a passion, you show how I learned that when you sort of talk about these things with sort of a passion, you show how much you care, and you try and you and you try to approach it

like in a way that's empathetic to the person you're talking to, they understand what you're talking about, that people kind of have a hope and heart to that, an open heart. And, and that was really powerful in the game, I think a lot. And just really powerful, just in in terms of enjoying the experience of survival while you're out there. This is a question from Andrew Feldman. What were your end game plans? Who would you have wanted to get to the final three with?

And did you see, did you ever have like a set, this is my dream final three, or anybody that would have taken you, you would have sat there with? Anybody would have taken me, I would have sat there with. Anybody would have taken me, I would have sat there with. And again, not just because, not because I thought I was like some amazing player that deserved to beat everyone, but. You would have gone to the end with Kim Spradlin and Boston Robb.

At least if I would have had the chance to make my case there. Yeah. You know, and anything else I think would have distracted from the idea of even getting to the end. And I had no wiggle room. I had very little wiggle room. I had such a tight rope to walk. I couldn't afford to shape the jury the way I wanted.

Let me ask you a question that I have you here. I have to know this. We see a lot of stuff in the news about robots and I think I speak for a lot of people when I tell you that I think that people are afraid that the robots are eventually going to take over. There will be a singularity and that eventually we're going to be wiped out by the robots. I think that people say, well why do they keep making these robots smarter? I see news items where the robot is doing things that they didn't expect. The robot is getting angry. And I think people are like, Hey, well, why don't they knock it off? Everything is things are fine. Do we need more robots? Christian, can you put myself in our audience

at ease at all? No, I'm just kidding. No, absolutely I can. For one, anytime you see a news story that's like, oh wow, this robot did something that we didn't expect. It was crazy. One, I saw one news article like about like this robot adopted its own secret language to talk with other robots. These are 100% overblown and completely out of context.

Like I, um, and like, because that's a sexy headline. And normally it's like when you actually, if you know a little bit about what's going on, you explain it to you, you're like, Oh no, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. It would do that. Um, also, anytime you see a really awesome YouTube video of a robot doing something super cool, you have to remember that the YouTube video you're watching is probably the best take they got. I mean, that's the time it worked.

What you don't see are all the times that it's not working, all the times that it's falling over, all the times that all the hours it's spent like, oh, it's broken, let's fix this drive. So as scary as it might be to see these robots doing things like back flips and stuff, realize they're not near implementation level on things like anywhere close to replacing humans with this stuff.

I know, but you also weren't worried that Gabby was gonna turn on you and then she, how do I know that the robot isn't gonna be the new Gabby? That's a good question. The Gabby robot, I'd be concerned with the Gabby programming in the robot. You know, they might come at you at the final 2018 instead of the final 2017. So be careful with that. But I will say that over the long view of history, people have widely misperceived how

technology would be adopted. I mean, I talked to people in the 1950s about, you know, about what the future looks like. They say cure for cancer, flying cars, jet packs, you know, and these things are normally harder things to crack than people realize. And fewer people said, you know, it would be really the big thing, you know, internet, you know, mobile devices, podcasting. So there's similar predictions, dire predictions about what robotics will do to the world. And podcasting could be the end of us.

Yeah, that's possible. You know, I'm really concerned about apocalyptic podcasting. But so I mean, like, oh, look, here's a better example. Computers, computers, people worried that computers would replace people as thinking machines. Back in the 50s, you know, now you are using computer right now to record your podcast. It's more enabling you to do the work that you do. People are worried that now that robots will replace all of our jobs, but really what ends up typically happening with these technologies is that

they end up augmenting human productivity. You would be able to command a fleet of podcasting robots instead of necessarily have to do it all the podcast yourself potentially. Well, I like that part. Yeah, that's good. Okay. That's my take. All right. There were some pictures of you meeting Cochrane at the finale. What was that like?

You know, I thought they just wheeled out a mirror. I was very confused for a while. But it turns out it was actually a human being named Cochrane that they had brought out. No, it was actually a human being named Cochran that they had brought out. No, it was fun. We shockingly are quite similar in a number of ways. Our vocal tics are similar. One time we actually bumped into each other and we both said, my apologies in the exact same time, like in the same cadence of voice.

So there are similarities there, but it was really fun. I got to talk to him a little bit about his time in South Pacific and how I applied for the same season he was on, but obviously he got on. It was very cordial and friendly and really a lot of fun. In your conversations with Cochran, if I may be so bold, what percent, I know it's higher than 0.0, but I'm sure it's not 100.00. So what percentage of the conversation is survivor based? About 75%.

75%. The other things are things like our eating habits, which are also shockingly similar. Yes. At least they used to be. Like before I had like a more stable job, like I would do the thing where I would eat like one giant meal in a day.

That's something he's apparently famed for doing as well. the thing where I would eat like one giant meal in a day. That's something he's apparently famed for doing as well. He'll eat like four quarter pounders in one sitting. Yeah, which I was very impressed by that he'd do four quarter pounders. I'd mostly like do like two and a Coke. So it's actually, his are more extreme than mine, but we at least have the same sort of taste

in sort of junk food when we're doing it. He's more of a Taco Bell guy than I am. I'm not really much of a Taco Bell person. That's the fast food I tend to like less. I think that's a very surreal experience if you are in like a Taco Bell and then just run into Cochrane. Yeah, there probably would be. Probably, you know, like, oh, there's Cochrane.

He walks out with, he described how he would order one of those party packs of like 10 tacos and that would be like his meal. I was like, okay, well, that's a way to go. I respect that. I mean, I- One hell of a party. Yeah, I tried to put on a good show on my Ponderosa by ordering like his meal. I was like, okay, that's a way to go. I respect that. I mean, I should. It's one hell of a party. Yeah, I tried to put on a good show on my Ponderosa by ordering like five dishes.

I've made a good chunk out of those. So I'm not sure I'm Cochrane levels though. All right, well, I know you've been up here talking for a while, but I do have something to tempt you with. Okay. That if you're willing to step down from the podcast, I have ordered for you, it's not Taco Bell,

it's not Two Quarter Pounders, but we do have a super Ruben sandwich that I've had delivered to the house to tempt you if you are willing to walk away from this podcast. Oh, I think you found my weak spot here. Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to take that offer at this point. Yes, for appearing on Rob's podcast, we do have a Ruben sandwich waiting for you, Christian. Oh, my favorite sandwich, how did you know? It's not like I babbled about it for hours. Thank you.

Is there anything else that you feel like that you need to get off your chest in terms of, was there anything that you feel like that you wish people knew? I wish people, I hope that people take away that we had a really fun time out there on the season and we're really glad, as a cast generally,

I think we're so happy that people are really taking to our season and liking it a lot. I know we've gotten a lot of nice accolades. I was told not to add somebody about it, but they said it was the best season ever. I don't know, but. Yeah, if you disagree. If you disagree, don't add them.

You know, don't add them, I understand. So yeah, whoever that was, you know, some stranger. But yeah, that's, but yeah, so we, we're glad that you guys enjoyed. So I just want to make sure you know that, we appreciate the feedback. A really fun run. Everybody played very hard, very competitive season,

really likable group. So nice to hear that everybody in your cast gets along so well also. Very, it's a happy story at the holidays. Yeah, it's a fun time. But yeah, we're glad people enjoyed, and I'm glad too. All right, Christian, do you have a hashtag for the listeners of this podcast?

A hashtag chest here? I don't know. I'm not sure, that's probably the thing I revealed on this podcast? Cash tag chest here? I don't know. I'm not sure. That's probably the thing I revealed on this podcast. I haven't talked about before, but I'm not sure I want that associated with the name. It's hard. You know, it's maybe maybe hashtag, you know, you know,

pick up the fumble the football or so. Pick up the football hashtag shadowy cabal shadowy click. I think shadowy cabal as long as it's spelled properly. I don't know. I thought my head. How do you spell cabal. Okay. See this is where the Wikipedia is useful. It's a C.A.B.A.L. All right. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go with the chest here then.

That's the code word. Play the idol. Okay. Christian Hubecky. You can follow him on Twitter. He is at C.Hubecky, you can follow him on Twitter. He is at C Hubecky. And then is that your preferred social media medium? Yeah, Twitter. Twitter is the one I'm on the most. Instagram.

I am on Insta. Cheese. What is cheese? That's the new hot one. Oh, I mean, I knew all about that. Yes. Yeah, I should grab that. Anyway, but yeah, Twitter is probably the easiest one. Oh, I mean, I knew all about that, yes. Yeah, I should grab that. Anyway, but yeah.

Twitter's probably the easiest one. Okay, anything else? I'm all set. All right, Christian Hubicki, thank you so much for being here with us and this was a great treat for me as well. We've got a Best of 2018 Rob is a Podcast special coming up soon, so be on the lookout for that.

And I hope everybody is having a great holiday week. Thanks so much to the patrons of Rob is a Podcast that allow all of this nonsense to be possible. Rob has a website.com slash patron for more information. Find out more about our patron community at Rob has a website.com slash patron. Take care, everybody. Thank you so much for listening You guys are really amazing Let's check in with the listeners. Oh my god, bro

Thank you guys so much take care. Bye Hey, Rob here and you know at RHAP we're always talking about the ways to optimize your strategy on all of our favorite reality TV games. But there's a guy that I listen to in real life who's the knowingest know-it-all when it comes to how to deal with your money and all sorts of other areas of your life. It's called All the Hacks and it's hosted by the master optimizer, Chris Hutchins. This is a podcast I've actually listened to for a couple of years and Chris is the king of life hacks, which is something that I love learning about. I'm always watching TikToks about all sorts of different life hacks.

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