RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Flashbacks: Jenna Lewis

Episode Date: June 7, 2025

Today, we're going back to Survivor: Cambodia - Second Chances to hear Jenna Lewis discuss the premiere with Rob. They also reflect on their time on Survivor together and Jenna's legacy from Survivor: Borneo. 

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Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob, Sister Nino back, and we've got a brand new series for you to check out here this summer. This is the first of a bunch of interviews that we are going to be bringing you from the R.H.A.P. vault. We've opened it up and we've brought out some great interviews with the old school players that you are going to be seeing comes sometime in twenty twenty six in the long summer break from survivor we are going to be bringing you some interviews with these players who are coming back from survivor fifty so each week I will bring you an interview that I've done with a cast member from the old school persuasion from the cast

of survivor fifty and today what a special treat my old friend Jenna Lewis actually came to my house on September 27th 2015 she came by to talk about the premiere of survivor Cambodia the original season that was in the hands of the fans they voted back in her cast mate Kelly Wigglesworth and it was a reunion of sorts for Jenna Lewis and I who started our podcast commentary careers together when we first started talking about survivor Vanuatu in the fall of 2004 on a website called the fish bowl dot com. We got reunited and so it was great to catch up with her in

this interview as you will hear and it will be so fun to watch her play on survivor 50 in just a few months. But in the meantime, enjoy my conversation with Jenna Lewis from September 2015. And then in one week's time, I'll be back with another episode from the archives to listen to the time we met up with Colby Donaldson in Austin, Texas. That'll be next week in this same time slot. Enjoy the podcast with Jenna. Coming to you live from my apartment, it's Rob has a podcast. And now here's the guy who's an old school player, but an all school fan.

Rob says to Nina, hello everybody. And welcome to our official season 31 podcast recap of episode number one. And I'm very excited because I have here with me in the studio a woman that I have not talked about an episode of Survivor with for 10 years, not since the Survivor Palau finale. I remember it well. Here she is. My former co-host, my first podcast co-host, here she is, Jenna Lewis. Where's the studio applause?

Studio applause. Jenna, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm excited to be here. This is really, really nice to see you here. By the way, you look great. You look pretty much exactly the same as the last time I've seen you. That's good.

I've been running a spa, so a lot of access to good products. You're holding up. Yep. As Rudy would say. Oh, not nice. You don't look like a completely different person. No, I don't. You look the same.

I do. So that's good. Like a little more wrinkles around the eyes, a couple sun spots. Yeah. Okay. Well, very excited to have you here that you made the long drive to come up here I did and really excited to to have you to talk about all of this because admittedly you have not really been a Survive keeping up with everything from survivor

but we have a lot to talk about here in terms of seeing people that you knew from way back when come back to the show and Also in terms of what the mindset is of these second chancellors. So I think we have a lot of stuff to talk through. We do in the episode. I want to get your take on some of it. Oh, I'll give my take. I'll give my take too. And then as well, in addition to talking with Jenna, I'm also going to be speaking with the great Jessica Lees and answering your voicemails later on in this show. So This is going to be a jam packed edition of the show.

A buckle up. This is going to be you're going to probably break this up. Listen to it in three, four times, maybe the whole weekend. It's going to take you to get through this podcast today. I talk fast, so maybe maybe we'll get through it all. Yes. And so Jenna is here. I'm very excited to talk about that. Of course, I did my exit interview this morning with Vitas.

Okay. Got to talk to him about what he was going through. I'd be interested to hear what he had to say. Well, if anybody's interested in hearing what he had to say, you can go to Rob's website.com. But the short version is he was kind of bummed. Yeah. Kind of bummed out to be the first person voted out. It still stings, Jenna.

Yeah. And especially when you see it aired, because you know how it goes down, but not until you see how it's edited. Do you understand how other people viewed you? I think that's one thing about editing shows you who you are or who how other people see you. Yeah. And you can in the moment say, okay, I got voted out because I was a threat that they

had to get rid of me. And that's why, but that's the hardest thing for them to be able to show on the episode. Like it always has to be something else also. It's like, well, they voted Vitas out because the women felt like he was getting too touchy feely and that's why they had to vote him out. It wasn't because he was a threat from the first time he played the game. It was because of what he was doing with the women. So it's a hard thing to get across on television.

They're voting you out because you're a threat. Right. Was he a threat? He definitely was a threat. Was he? OK. What I saw was a touchy-feely guy that if I was out there with someone not eating, already cranky, somebody that comes up

and keeps rubbing my shoulders and doing back bends onto the hut, which probably wasn't that stable. So I was wondering if he was going to break it. You wouldn't like that. Rupert didn't do that. He didn't know. He just caught fish like I asked him to. Thank God.

Jenna, I want to show you this new yoga position. And especially if he didn't have like swim trunks on, but like the boxers now, I'm like, oh, that's not, that wasn't a good look. But Joe, that's a good look. Joe's a good look. So we'll talk about all that and much more here with Jenna. Of course, first podcast of the season. If you are not on board yet, we're going to do so many shows here on Rob is a podcast.

Make sure you subscribe to the podcast, Rob is a website dot com slash iTunes. You'll also hear our podcast from last night's survivor know know it all's with Josh Wiggler and even our Big Brother coverage from last night. And I also talked to the Big Brother final three this morning. So a lot going on. But so let's just start off and catch up with you a little bit. You know I know a little bit about what you've been up to just from Facebook and stuff like

that. But I haven't seen you in forever. It's been like nine years eight years. I I can't you know I really would have to like I feel like I haven't seen you in forever. Gosh, it's been like nine years, eight years. I, you know, I really would have to like, I feel like I must have seen you. I, you know, I saw you at the ten year reunion. Yes, I saw you. I think that was probably the last time I saw you in person. Yeah. Yeah. Also, Kelly Wigglesworth was there.

Oh, then I wasn't there because I haven't seen Kelly. No, I wasn't there. I went to one of the Survivor finales probably like seven years ago, but it wasn't the 10 year reunion. I didn't go. I was with my new husband at the time. Okay. All right.

So you are new like there's going to be more. And you are you are married now. Yes. Yes. And you have you have two new babies to additional to Sadie and Sabrina who are the babies Well, Sadie and Sabrina are grown-ups. They're 19 in college So oh my god those little girls that they show on the video after I didn't get my video You know everyone cried for me. Those girls are 19 now and in college and they're very very cute and are they doing good?

They're good. Like when blood versus water was announced both of them were like mom we want to play with you. I was like, how do you choose one? It felt like Sophie's choice. Like, uh, I can't even apply because I don't know who I'd play with. Yes. Yeah. Uh, and so everything is, everything is good in home life. Yeah. Everything's great in home life. Great husband, uh, been married, uh, five and a half years and we have a four and a half year old and a two and a half year old. Yeah. Wow. So you're like doing the whole thing again. Whole thing again. I love it. I gotta tell you. Everyone hears you because I was partying around LA, but everyone doesn't get it till they're a parent how much you love these stinking little mess makers. They're just, and I would do it again. I had to stop myself from a pit.

And your youngest one, do you have boys, right? I have a boy that's four and a half and a little girl is two and a half. Yeah. So that's, it's very, a little girl is a girl. Yeah. Yeah, so that's It's very very very fun. Yeah, and so we could take talk about kids So people are gonna be tuning out. Yep So now here you are and you have not kept active in the survivor in the survivor world really since Probably since you know around the time that we were last doing the fishball and those of you guys who are new listeners to this Jenna Lewis and I we have

a past together not a not as a kind of past. But for when I first moved out to Los Angeles for a year we actually did basically what was some sort of like beta version of what I ultimately ended up doing here with Rob as a podcast. And we did for a year we talked about Survivor Vanuatu and Survivor pull out together every week. And we talked to guests and stuff like that. We had so much fun there. Very excited to have you back here. And I people I hear from people that say I've been listening to you since

way back when I'm sure for you it's like you haven't seen me in forever it's like oh you're doing exactly the same thing that you were doing. There's been no growth here. Oh no way. But I actually went on to not do so like I went on and didn't do reality TV stuff and then I ended up coming back to it when I ended up hitting a crossroads in that world. Yeah, but you love it.

So why wouldn't you do it? Yeah. Well, I do love it and it is fun to get to talk about and I'm glad that finally I have a outlet to be able to do it for even more than an hour a week when we used to talk about Survivor. Yeah, which was really cool. But I'm watching you handle like all of this editing stuff and looking around your studio and I'm thinking, God, Rob made it.

This is awesome. You have your bathroom. Let's not get carried away. Let's get carried away. But we you know, it's been a lot of fun to be able to go through all this. And so, all right. So here we are where we have this Survivor second chance. Yeah. And, you know, this isn't completely out there.

We had Jervis come back to the show a couple seasons ago. Did you watch the season that Jervis came back and played on? I didn't, that was Blood Versus Water, right? Yes, he was on the first Blood Versus Water with Vitas and Ciara. I followed a little bit just via what he was posting on Facebook, because we're friends on Facebook.

So I kind of got just there and then I look it up, but I didn't follow religiously. Okay and now here is Kelly. When did you first hear that Kelly was in the mix to come back and get voted back in by America? It wasn't until... Or the world. Yeah I'm on Facebook friends with Jeff Varner and it wasn't until he announced it on his Facebook feed because he is like I don't know if he has somebody that does all of his but he had a huge He was the one that did all his did he I think he had people like creating stuff I think he was doing a lot of the you know sharing of it Yeah, no

He did a lot of sharing so I would see all that stuff and he was telling me I just got updates through there And I'd kind of private message him on there But yeah, the only reason I found out so a bunch of people that you knew from way back when are here in the mix between and really survivor at You know at that point in time in the beginning It's like, you know, there was just you guys just the people from Borneo and then the Australia people came And then I'm sure like you saw them probably a million times and it's not like the same as if you know The people on survivor 29 might never meet the people from survivor 28

But it was just you guys and you see each other at the all these charity events. I'm sure you know, the people on Survivor 29 might never meet the people from Survivor 28, but it was just you guys and you see each other at all these charity events. I'm sure you know Jeff. I'm sure you know Kimmy. Also then T-Bird was in the mix. Was she really? And she got left at the altar. They didn't take her. I love T-Bird.

She didn't get voted in. Dang it. I should have voted. You should have voted. You were the one vote. I was. Dang, I feel bad. I really like T-Bird.

And what about Andrew Savage? Do you know him at all? I do. I watched his season, I think. From Islands. Yes, I did because it was right before Survivor All-Stars. It was right before. I think he actually got voted out, I think, probably like the night that we were leaving to go on Survivor All-Stars. So we saw most of what was going on there with his six or seven episodes from survival prologue. So let's just talk about Kelly because that's the person that you obviously spend the most

time with and somebody who has been a little bit of an enigma for us in terms of somebody who's going back to the show because there's so many other people that it's like, okay, you totally get why they're going back. But it seemed like that Kelly's arc in Borneo was that she was sort of the wishy washy person. She was in the Tagi Alliance, but she wanted to hang out with you and Colleen. And she wanted to, she said she was like Luke Skywalker.

It's like, do I go with the dark side or do I go with the good guys, the rebels? And even Star Wars is coming back. But even if she'd gone with us, it would have had to turn at some point like everything becomes the dark side on Survivor. It ultimately does. Ethan would say differently.

He played the game all the way nicely to the end. Which I agree. But of course. But for Kelly. So it seemed like her heart wasn't 100 percent in it. No. Then. And then we say OK well here comes Kelly Wigglesworth and now she's going to go balls out and really come back and play

But I think there's still a question about is her heart in it for her to come back Can you speak at all to maybe her motivation knowing her a lot better than any of us will ever know her? Yeah, what I would say is I think survivor normally cast such extroverts We're all so we wear our heart on our sleeve ever know her. Yeah. What I would say is I think survivor normally cast such extroverts. We're all so we wear our heart on our sleeve. We scream our heart from our mouth. But I think Kelly doesn't say as much, but she she's very passionate. I remember her crying after losing to Jervis in the rowing contest. And that was before we were on the same tribe. Yeah. We really got to know her. And Sue was like, oh, you sucked in that game. Yeah.

She's like, you lost to the guy who couldn't swim. That's what Sue said. And she's a river raptor. So I think that she just this is vindication for her. I think she's a very competitive, athletic person. She just doesn't scream it outwardly. And I saw that last night when she was the one that jumped in the water to swim for the rice.

So I think what she's going to have a hard time doing is relating to the other people. But I think hers is the same passion that drove all of us. It's that what if because she's competitive. She really is. And I want to know about that with her because she was a person who won those challenges back in Borneo went on that run. They were all trying to get rid of her and she keeps winning immunity after immunity and you say that she has that competitiveness but my question is is it a different animal when you're 22 versus 36 or 37 because we saw her I'm gonna go out and swim for the rice and she failed

she didn't get there and then she's the one put me in there I'm gonna be the person who's gonna open the thing on the jailbreak. And again, she wants to be in that hero spot. And again, she failed. Well, I would say about the swimming is nobody had thought of it. If you saw how far she had swam before, who I think Joe jumped into the water. Yeah. And Joe, Joe jumped in and then and who overtook Joe. Yes, who got the rice?

But I was thinking he kept going, she's going to get tired as they're still paddling a raft that's sinking. And none of them have sent anyone into the water yet. Like if then Joe jumps in and finally goes, oh, I'm going to overtake her. But she did that from the beginning. So, yeah, anyone with fresh legs that jumps in, have you ever swam like 500 feet? It's a monster. So she still got there right after Wu.

So she had the right idea. What she did right there was lead by example. They all kind of jumped onto what she was doing. Otherwise they were all going to row over there. I mean I think that they would have waited until like right where Wu did. But she showed them that guys take initiative and do it. So the backdrop of this season is obviously second chances. And you were somebody that you played the game the first is obviously second chances and you were somebody that

you played the game the first time in Borneo and you came back in the All-Stars and you definitely wanted to change the way I'm not sure if it was the way people saw you or you wanted to change the way that you played because you felt like it was a better chance to win or whatever the Venn diagram is of those two things. But you came back and you played very differently the second time around from the first time around. Do you think that Kelly is willing to make that sort of a change between what she was the first time around to who she is at this point in her life?

I didn't see anything last night that showed me that. I saw in her little interview at the beginning where she was like, I've had kids, I can do anything. But I didn't see any of that around camp. She's like, I'm going to be the hard worker. But after seeing all of these other survivors, she knows that you have to start playing the mental game. And I didn't see any of that.

She's like, I'm in with a good crowd and that's good. That's it. Like everyone else was like, okay, making sure they get the votes just in case, you know, remind me who the girl is that ran over to Varner. She was just going a mile a minute about everyone that she's noticed. You know, remind me who the girl is that ran over to Varner. Shani, Sherine, Sherine. She was just going a mile a minute about everyone that she's noticed. And even Jeff Varner was like, Oh, my gosh, I've got a lot to learn. Yeah, I feel like that was a little disconcerting as somebody who I feel like

Kelly Wigglesworth was going to do well this season, because I felt like she's the person with the smallest target on her back, because I feel like there's such reverence for her and especially I think in terms of a lot of these new school players, they feel like so much reverenceence for her and especially I think in terms of a lot of these new school players They feel like so much reverence show all these people for from Borneo these classic players Jeff Farner Because they are they are the legends I grew up watching these people by the way did that bum you out to hear? Somebody like Joe say I grew up watching this show no not at all I mean, I know I'm 38 and I'm a mom of 19 year olds it doesn't bother me anymore

I used to want to be the hot chick at like 25 and be like, yeah, I've got, now I'm like, it doesn't matter. None of that matters. I like to be pretty, but I don't care if I'm the hot chick. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey everybody, Rob Cisternino here. You ever notice we spend hours talking strategy

for Survivor, but when it comes to our own lives, we sometimes forget that phrase, phone a friend. mental health check-ins used to feel taboo but the conversation has come a long way still plenty of people hold back because they worry about what others will think that hesitation can ripple through families workplaces you name it therapy can be like having a personal coach for your mind helping you learn healthier coping skills, set boundaries and keep growing, even if you're not dealing with a massive crisis.

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Stay three nights this summer at Best Western and get $50 off a future stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. What Kelly ends up saying last night at some point, she's like, yeah, you know, when things get tough, then I think maybe if I work hard and we have a good shelter,

then people will remember that I was one of the people that was doing that. But I really feel like for somebody who's coming back into the game at Survivor 31, from Survivor 1, I feel like even at the point of Survivor 8, when we went back and played in the All-Stars, I feel like that's a dated way to be thinking about the game. I feel like that's something like Rupert might be saying in Survivor 7, Survivor 8, like, if I provide for these people, they won't vote me out. They'll remember later.

But I do think there's a combination of that. I always had like a nine day theory. And going into the second time that I did it, I had a nine day theory. The first two to three days, you work your butt off. You set everyone, you know, you're happy, you go lucky while you still have a little bit of food digesting in your tummy, and then you work your butt off. And people never ever think again that you're lazy.

But you always have that time to be talking to people and doing alliances at the same time. I do think that that will come to play that she's a hard worker because I got to tell you when there's nobody in the camp that's going to get firewood anymore, it's a problem. When you don't have Joe there to make your fire and you haven't won it in a reward challenge, it's a problem. See, I do believe that it's important to keep a strong tribe. I think people probably have a perception of me that, oh, he doesn't care about work.

He's just like a lazy guy. He just wants to talk about strategy. He'd be one of the beach people. And I probably would be, but I also, I do believe in having a good camp life because I think that that's the foundation to having success in your tribe. And I think that I would be somebody who would be a hard worker in terms of the camp, because I think you need to sustain that to be able to win challenges. Otherwise you might have an alliance and you're just going to be going to tribal, tribal, tribal, tribal, tribal. And it's not necessarily a great recipe for success.

Let's the three tribe format and we could talk about something that you might have stumbled into that you probably don't even know about. Well, Saboga, like we watched that with Suboga. Yeah, well, we've talked about how that in the three tribe format over the years, where they did it in Survivor 8 and they don't do it again until Survivor 25. And they've done it in Survivor 25, Survivor 28, and again in Survivor 30. And they've sort of like done it where it's been no collar, white collar, blue collar. And they did it with brains versus beauty versus brawn. And so they brought it back

a couple of times. But it seems like the people that have survived like the worst tribe that's out there. That was my tribe. Yeah. But they've gone, they've gone far pretty much. And we've ended up calling, calling that an intentional Matt Singh because in survivor Philippines, the two people that ended up going into the final four, like you and Rupert did back at Saboga although for Jerry and Ethan it did not were the Being on the disaster tribe early on did not pan out as well

But I think that Jerry didn't I gotta tell you being on that tribe I can tell you she had given up like I don't know if the the night before Jenna Moraska quit we had a huge storm. It was the worst in history. I recall. Production left, Rob. It just left us. We were like, she was going, I'm going to die.

It was the worst. She said, it's not worth it. For 12 hours in the rain and lightning. This is not a lie. There are snakes coming off from a flash flood above us because we smartly built an inverted sand here. So she stood there as we sat in Forsum and you know how long an hour is, 12 hours of that woman going, it's not worth it, they left us here today.

She gave up. She never again, it shows her lugging some wood, but she gave up. That continued throughout the rest of the time, even when she joined up with Shapira, I think she went over to Shapira. You went to Shapira. I went to Shapira. I'm sorry. Mogamogo.

Yes. She just had given up. I don't think she could recover from that. So I don't think it had anything to do with as much that Rupert and I had been a team or how we were disbanded. Ethan and I have labeled. That's a whole nother thing about how I played all stars. We'll talk about it.

We'll talk about it. I only labeled him because it was an easy way to get people to vote off the person I needed most off. Tina Wesson. That's all I cared about in the first vote. Tina Wesson. Yeah. Okay, well, this is a whole different conversation, but let's explore it. Let's explore it.

Because you really did set the tone more than any other person in that game in terms of okay, hey, the winners are going to go. Was that something that you had conversations with with people before the game started in terms of hey, let's get all the winners or you just set it there and it was like, boom, let's go because I think a big part of things that we're going to end up talking about in the season are conversations that people are having before the game started. And while, you know, I think that at that point in time, you just had to have people's phone numbers or you ran into people.

This is now a new age where everybody's on Twitter, everybody. It's like the easiest thing in the world to direct message somebody. These people were all campaigning. So there's so much interaction between all of these people from before the game started. And there's just so much just background chatter between these people. So just go to go back to this really quick. Yeah. About so the winners have to go in the survivor All-Stars. I have in my journal while pre being dropped on the island. I was there and I was suspecting that those were the sixth group that we were going to be dropped off on. So I started to make lists of who I was going to be able to

prey on what. And I knew that Rupert, Jerry and I had all been 27 days. So I immediately say that to them joking, like just to make the camaraderie stick between those three so that I knew I had him. I knew Jerry was not wanting to be aggressive. She didn't want to come across as the bitch again, right? So I knew that I could kind of take the reins of getting her to come along with me. Rudy, old school, he would do what I said. So I was like, okay, there's four of us right there. And then two left on my tribe,

the one I was worried most about, Tina Wesson. I started just telling those guys, do they really deserve a million dollars? Had nothing to do with that. It was just those two were strong and very- So you have to craft a million dollars had nothing to do with that. It was just those two were strong. So you have to craft a story. You have to craft a story for each of these people. And this was in the this was pregame or this was pregame.

But I never talked to them. Okay. This was in your sort of like when you're living when you're living with that little hut. So then for these players that are out here where we end up seeing how this ends up Fleshing out last night where we end up seeing where hey Let's end up getting rid of Vitas and they don't even get to really huddle on it Vitas is saying hey Let's give her a happy Maria because she's creating like a bad mojo around the tribe Around her bracelet and then other people are saying about like well

We should just get rid of VDIS because of that he is ties and he's a threat and he has ties Shireen is talking about he's connected to ours who's connected to Terry who's connected to this person right and on the other tribe in theirs Yeah, yeah, and on the other tribe. He has Sierra who was also from blood versus water So we should get rid of him. So do you feel like is that the same thing that's still going on? Yes, I do. I think that, you know, editing comes into play a little bit too of what they want you to see because people that are gonna be there longer,

they kind of do different storylines because they're going to include so much of them later. Even now as I watch Survivor, I think, gosh, I know who's gonna be here a while just because they're not showing them. But last night I was watching and thinking just that, that they're not showing us everything that they're saying. But the storyline comes from you having to create a reason for these people to vote them

off. It doesn't matter if it's right or not. You have to create the reason. You have to gather them around your thinking, regardless of if it's actually how you think. You can change how you view it four votes later when you need to. In addition to Kelly, one of the names that had been widely rumored about coming back You can change how you view it four votes later when you need to. In addition to Kelly, one of the names that had been widely rumored about coming back for this season was that Greg was going to come back and play in this season. Oh, man, there's so much to say there.

That had been widely rumored that he was going to come back. I think that Jeff even said that they were talking with him and ultimately Greg declined him with a coconut phone. But there was a major flirtation between Greg and Survivor and Survivor and Greg about him coming back for this season. Do you think that we will ever see that again? Yes, I do. Why?

Because Greg, like we were just talking about what you craft, Greg crafted an entire personality and he did it for the show. I mean, he's kind of cuckoo anyway in such a good way. Coming from a small town meeting Greg Buist was like, Oh my, who is this? Like I hadn't met any free float in California thinking people. I was in New Hampshire. And then to see him out there and then know who he is after, it's a completely different person.

Why, who is he after? He's still kind of like a fetus type of person. Very. And I think he would probably be into yoga. I'm assuming that Greg now teaches yoga or he's like a Russell brand. He's like a funny man and yet super spiritual. Probably loves India. I think he does like some sort of work with like green energy. I think that's. Yeah.

So it's exactly what I would expect expect and he's probably doing it barefoot and he's probably joking around with people about a coconut phone and but he crafts that persona so that people don't think of him as either a threat or Think of him as somebody who's scheming. They probably think he's just crazy Let's bring the crazy guy along to the end will be just about him out Did you feel like he was a good player do you feel like that he could adapt to playing in this point in time? Yes. Greg's views actually changed the entire way as a survivor.

We were all kind of voting on merit on Survivor 1, and then Greg threw a vote for me into the mid. He voted for you a bunch of times, right? Well, he voted for me the first time when no one was talking about voting for me. When we were all talking about voting off Ramona, voting off Joel and Jarvis. And then he sits down next to me and it visibly rattled me because I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't deserve this thinking it's still merit based, you know, I don't deserve this. But he sits down and he goes, you know why I did it? He goes, because you needed to see how it felt. But what he was

doing was he was subjugating my game. He was just getting in my head. So he was worlds above. And then like we get to the island and he's completely playing up to being Richard Hatch's boy and I was like, Oh my God, he's so versatile. He was playing a bigger game. It's sad he got voted off. And I was too short minded. We land on that other tribe and I'm like, I still hate Craig Buess for voting me off. Let's go for him.

Wow. Did I set up my own fate? Yeah. And I recently, well, I should, I recently, last summer, I ended up watching the whole first season and that this is so nerdy that I went back. I've actually rewatched all 30 seasons and recorded like an audio book for each for each season over the over the last like year, a year, 14 months. So but I did go back and rewatch, you know, that's that season, you know, all

the way through. And I did feel like it was very captivating still to go back. Have you ever rewatched Borneo? I haven't. I rewatched All Stars recently because the girls wanted to see my daughters, my 19 year olds wanted to see how physically difficult it was because I was trying to explain like without water for four days. Like last night when Joe got fire I was like oh my gosh I remember standing there with no water still trying to make a fire. While they all stood up like Tina Rudy Rupert all of them would stand up in the hut and pass out.

Ethan and I were the last ones sitting out in 100 degrees just sweating and they had to send the medic to take our blood pressure to make sure no one was going to die and have a huge lawsuit. But it was just brutal. So I wanted to show my daughters that. And then we watched like four or five episodes around it. So I could show them when Ethan sits down and was like, she's like the godfather of this team.

And then I stopped it. I was like, you can't see mommy get bad. Like it gets bad from here on out. And they don't want to see Borneo? They don't want to see this first season? I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do. And I have it sitting at my house.

It's just, you know, they're 19. They have other things to do. OK, hopefully I know other Borneo questions I want to ask you about. Talk about Jeff Varner, because he's somebody that I'm sure you obviously got to know. Well, he's such a character. I mean, I got to know him a little a little while, probably not nearly as well as you got to know him coming off of the first season. But he's a big personality and I felt like he really delivered in terms of television last night. And he is somebody who does seem to be a little bit caught between the two

worlds of that. Hey, I'm an old school player and I want to play this game, but it's moving a little too fast for me. And I think he seems a little bit like I'm trying to keep up. I know it's moving faster and I don't know if I can necessarily. I don't know if I'm comfortable with this. I think some of that is Jeff Barner playing all of the other characters to the to playing us at home or playing the other people. No playing the people there like, oh, you know, you know me as the big character and I work hard and I can do this. Obviously, I lasted a long time, but you know, I'm not into all that

playing. I think that people want, when you go out there now, you want to know that you get to control someone. If you're the person setting up the moves strategically, you want to know that the person that you're aligning with, like I did with Rupert, isn't out there making all of his own moves. He's setting himself up to be that person. Well, good gosh, I played like, you know, 15 years ago. I don't know how well this plays. He's gonna be, he knows what's going on. You're right. I do agree with what you're saying

because there's that scene where Shereen and Spencer are talking with him and Shereen is like, like laying it all out to him and saying like, okay, cause Terry, he played with Aris and Aris is Vitas's brother. And then and then he was like, oh, my gosh, I'm not even thinking of this. Like, oh, I'm just hoping I could keep up with this. And so and he definitely he definitely knows that. I mean, he talked about it in his pre game alliances. He's talking about how he had conference calls with people like Kelly

and Terry and stuff like that. And then at tribal council to your your right. But then the trouble he did say is like, I think people are there's more going on here than he said. I'm picking up on cues, which once again, doesn't say that he was in on it all

or making the choices. He was like, I'm picking up on some cues here. And that was Kelly, I think, actually. But he was like, I think people know who they're going to vote for. It felt like I'll just a game. Another subtle thing that he did, which I really liked, was when he was in the water with PG. PG asked him, what have you hearing?

Who are you voting for? And he said, well, Shereen wants to vote Vitas. He never said, I want what I want to do. I think we should vote VEDIS. That's what Shereen that's what Shereen is on board with that. He put it on Shereen. And if PG is like, Whoa, no way. I don't want to vote off. He just like, well, me neither. So he left himself that wiggle room. So I feel like that he's done really well. And I know that he his self assessment has been like, I'm having a midlife crisis. I don't know what's

going on. I think that he's done well so far. And I feel like he's somebody that could be very dangerous. What did you think of him the first time around? Did you look at him as somebody who could have been really good? And they had like those wonky rules at that point of the previous votes and stuff like that. And he ends up where it's a tie against him versus Colby. And then because he had previous votes against him, and he ended up where it's a tie against him versus Colby. And then because he had previous votes against him,

and he ended up going out. Did you look at him as somebody who kind of got screwed the first time around? Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're gonna see, he's doing this whole persona. I saw it last night. He's like, oh good gosh.

Just telling you, he's got so much up his sleeve and you can't get to 50 and have that, carry that like survivor torch of I lost I lost without your campaigning on this Facebook. You have gone back digitally and rewatched everything you've talked to everybody. He's a smart man and he works in media. He knows exactly what he's doing. That thing that you're talking about that Jeff Farner has off like that itch off like

that I'm you know I need I need to do that. Do you have that? I do. You know, I got some of it out in All-Stars, but it was even harder to change my game so drastically from somebody who never made really the choices of who was voting out and then really kind of grasping the game. And each time something was thrown at me, like dropping tribes or switching tribes, or I feel like I kind of remanipulated it. But I always did it gently.

I remember Fair Play telling me he never wanted to play against me because I don't do anything on screen. When there's a camera, I never ever wanted anyone, even Jeff Probst or anyone, to know what I was doing. So I- That's why. You were worried that for some reason,

like production was gonna say, like somebody's gonna ask an interview question about something like that? Yes! I didn't want them to know. And then Jeff would come to tribal council and call me an instigator. But there was nothing on camera that showed me as an instigator. I caused the fight between Big Tom and Rob, and it never showed it because it was off camera.

How did that happen? Because I went to Rob and I. So let me just set the same for somebody like who who isn't like a, you know, able to follow you because we're bouncing around through space and time. This is All Stars. Yes, All Stars, final five. So that just to set this up where Big Tom is really

the swing vote at this point in time, there's you and Rupert on one side, Rob and Amber are at the other side in the final five. And you instigated the fight between Rob and Tom and Rupert. Well, at that time, you know, all of us still thought we were Tom and Rupert. Yeah, all of us still thought we were strong. Rupert kept asking, at that time, you know, all of us still thought we were Rupert, Tom and Rupert. Yeah. All of us still thought we were strong.

Rupert kept asking, will they swing, you know, with Tom? And I said, no, I don't think so. But just to be sure, I wanted to have an open fight conflict. So I knew they weren't going and kind of, you know, forming a different alliance on the side. Because you didn't you were afraid that Rob and Amber were going to take Tom to the final three instead of it because because really that would make sense. That would make some sense in terms of like because you guys went to a final four where

it could have gone down to a two versus two rock draw. Right. You know and or fire making I think of course it would be at that point in time. So which is still is. And so it could have been it almost makes very little sense to go into a two versus two. You kind of would want to have that certainty of being able to have like three versus two. Tom is such a jury threat that there are all these people that can't wait to vote for Tom. In the end, people like, you know, Lex and Kathy are dying to vote for Big Tom at the end of the game. Lex and Kathy are dying to vote for her big Tom at The end of the game, so it's also danger, but he's older, but he's older so anything physical Robin

I'm gonna win the final exactly when the final community challenge you wouldn't think right which I think Rupert And I posed a bigger threat so I so I was just making sure That they weren't setting up an alliance to do just that but how do you reconcile that Rob is also saying that that's his move? What do you mean? If you go back and watch the episode, like Rob is saying that he's worried that Tom and Rupert are friends and he's worried he's like he's basically the same position that you're in of saying, like, well, I don't want big I don't want Big Tom to go off with Rupert.

I don't know what they're talking about over there. And so they. But I didn't want Big Tom to go off with Rupert. I don't know what they're talking about over there. And so they're- But I didn't see that. All I saw was that Rob and Tom were friends. We all went to these charity events and I knew that Rob was smarter than everyone would give him credit for. And I knew that he was seeing what you and I

just talked about. So what I did was I went to Rob and I was like, you know, I did hear Tom talking to Rupert about voting you guys off or voting you off Rob if you don't win and he just goes at it. You watch they're screaming in the water and it shows me just sitting on the beach like just watching it. They're screaming at each other.

I needed them to fight openly so that I knew they weren't scheming. Now Boston Rob, I don't think personally speaking for myself, I did not see this coming in Survivor All-Stars where he was going to go come in and play like a bat out of hell. I thought that he was going to come in and play physically and while that he certainly had confessionals that he was talking about the Godfather and stuff like this, I thought that he was going to come back into Survivor All-Stars and he was going to flame out and in my position in that game I felt like okay, let Rob take the leadership position Nobody's nobody should want to be the leader, right?

He'll eventually he'll get voted out and I'll be fine and he'll you know, he'll flame out and I'll be there You know to pick up the pieces and maybe be part of that, you know Overthrow when that happens Set the little notes in. Yeah. Right. But I never, I never imagined that Rob would go on to play such a dominant game his second time. I didn't think he had it in him.

Did you see anybody that you feel like could be that Boston Rob who comes into this game that we're not, that maybe we're not expecting? And maybe you don't know all of the players so well to be able to see something like that. I don't, but the person I liked last night, I liked, is it Cass? Chaos Cass? Yeah, Chaos Cass. I think that she has potential. I think that, I think Varner's going to be reckoned with.

He is putting on this, oh my gosh, I'm telling you, it's all going to hit in like three episodes. You're going to see Varner have to start to make some very political moves. And then people are going to be like, oh, is it too late to take him out? So for Jeff Varner, it's just, you know, there's so many different directions you can go with because you know, the guy, the guy has been around for so long. He played with Amber back also in Survivor Australia, who you and I played with in Survivor All-Stars. He watched as Amber came back. Nobody thought Amber was going to win. I think that a lot of us were like, I can't believe Amber is even here on

the All-Stars. Nobody was thinking that she was going to be a winner in the game. I'm not sure if you had ever, even as you were going along in that game, if there was a certain point, you voted for Rob in the end. Yes, I did. And so I don't know if there was a certain point where the light bulb even like occurred to you that Amber was going to win, but it's very possible we've seen this before in a lot of these seasons

where somebody who nobody is worried about ends up being the winner. You have all these big threats gunning for each other. And a person who isn't particularly threatening ends up winning the game as I drop my pen. So do you feel like, is that a recipe that could again occur in this season? No, I think it's too open now.

I think now that I've seen, after All Stars, it was such a nobody can be an amber, nobody can go under the radar. I think that became too obvious that people started to take them out. That's what I saw from a couple of the episodes I watched. But how do you worry about a person who is so not a threat that they are a threat when there are actually threats? Well, I think you gotta, there's a little bit of trust and there's a little bit of always, you never quite know when you go to tribal council, because you don't,

you can't trust these people. You just don't know. That's the fun of watching it. There's so many twists and turns and there's 50 conversations that we're not even privy to, you know? Sure. The editing makes it to follow the storyline of how that person gets voted out, but you don't know how many times

people flip-flop back and forth. Talk to me about Kimmy, and now here she is back for a second time. First off, does it blow your mind that Kimmy Kappenberg is back on Survivor? Yes. First of all, I didn't think that she was a fun character to watch.

She, well, I mean, I think her and what's her name? Abu Maria? Abby Maria. Whatever. I think those two are just, they're gonna cause drama. Yeah. Big drama.

But don't you need that? You do, but I just can't stand it when it's drama for no reason. Like I loved watching All Stars and re-watching it and watching the little things that Big Tom says because it's just so hilariously funny or even Suhok, just just ridiculous drama but not like screaming like Alicia waggle your finger in your face drama like that sort of stuff is

just obnoxious to me. But wasn't that more on Alicia than on Kimmy? No but Kimmy she just something about that big mouth just like ah she's like I don't know I just think she belongs front manning a band like Rolling Stone and then being back on Survivor. Do you have some personal history with her? Have you met? Of course I've met her.

I'm sure you've run into Kimmy Kappenberg. Do you guys not get along? It's not that we don't. I just, you know, it's kind of like I figure if I met Abby, I would just not. She just rubs me the wrong way. Kimmy. So here's Kimmy back. Do you feel like she has a shot to win this thing?

No, no. No shot. I don't even think she has. And that's the other thing I'll say. At no point in time have I thought Kimmy Kappenberg has been especially smart. So I don't really foresee a ton of scheming or foresight on her part. I think there are a lot of other people. Is it Kelly, the blonde who

got the immunity idol last night? I really liked her. I liked that she's standing there waiting and she did it. She went for it. I was afraid she wasn't. It's like, oh, you idiot, get Kelly Wigglesworth to lose that challenge and take your moment. Yeah. But Kimmy Kappenberg, no, I don't think so at all. So what do you do with somebody like that? That you identify say Kimmy Kappenberg is somebody who can't win, do you get rid of her from the tribe because you feel like, okay, well, she's somebody who isn't part of my plans or do you see her as a vote? Boy, let me keep her around as long as I can, because I feel like she can't win the game

at all. But you run the risk that just like with Jeff Farner back in Survivor Australia, where she was the person who ended up saying to Tina, hey, Jeff got votes against him. Is she somebody that could maybe screw up your plans if you keep her around? Yes, absolutely. She's somebody that I would view like a Joel Klug from Survivor One. Of course. You have him there and you always have an expiration stamped on everyone's forehead.

I swear to God, I look at people and all I see is like a milk carton like, okay, your expiration dates three days, six days, nine days. But it can always change. I can always like wipe the board and be like, now you're eight. Why? Why do you say that about Joel? Because he was such a threat? Joel was a threat, but also he was too much of a mouthpiece.

I knew that like if we joined tribes, he would just set everyone off and he would, he would probably not even be smart enough to know that he was telling people secrets. And I feel like Kimmy's similar. Like keep her around while you're voting off some of the people that you don't want to face in emerge or people that you think are too disruptive as far as their scheming. But then vote them off when they're no longer necessary that they could hurt your game. Now, does it surprise you to hear that Jeff and Kelly were so tight from before in the pregame, Jeff Farner and Kelly Wigglesworth?

Yeah, it does. But I can see where those two would definitely say, oh, my gosh, I haven't been a part of this world for 15 years. We got to rewatch it. What do you think? You're the only person I know. You're at a party and it's like, OK, I only know you and you and that's and that's it. But he didn't vote with her on the first on the first vote

No So what does that speak does that speak to anything specific about Jeff Farner or does that speak to? The idea of the pregame Alliance being really not worth the paper It's written on really not worth the paper It's written on because until you get out there and you see how people are going to react And like I said people slip all the time. People that you think are going to be strong, you know, day six, day nine, they could just lose it. Physically it's demanding. What we never talk about, we talk about a lot of the game, but physically you're, you just are wrecked after

like day nine and especially after huge events like being rained on and not sleeping and you're expected to go out and do all these challenges which by the way we got to touch up on how much food they got last night. We got a lot of food you feel like. Oh my gosh did you see that they're like chickens and huge things of coconuts and like baskets of food do you remember what we got on all stars? We got nothing. We got a machete in a pot to piss in like that's what we got. They handed it to us not even water like Like here you go. Go suffer. I think they really wanted someone to die to give it validity.

Yeah. And I feel like now they're a little more concerned about somebody having some sort of adverse reaction out there. Like death. That's a pretty adverse reaction. Yeah, that's a bad reaction. But I remember vividly having a dream. I've had a lot of vivid dreams on Survivor, but I vividly had dreams like I remember I was like under like the like with the faucet open just like drinking and I'm waking up being like, what? No, no. It's devastating and that will take you out of your game as well.

So I think the longer that these people get away from food, the more people break down to who they really are. Yeah. Was it you guys? I think the first tribal council, you like sitting there with like your mouth open in the rain? Yeah, no, we didn't we didn't get fire. We didn't get and we didn't even get the chance because we were taken straight to tribal council to like set out our pot to get water in.

It was I was crying because we're standing there. You guys you guys had the same thing as basically what they had in in this. What do you mean? You guys went right. You guys went right to travel council from. No, we had like an hour, but it started raining as we were getting on the boat. Like I hadn't even rained. So we've been sitting out there in 100 degree heat.

No rain the first night, even though we had our pod out to catch it. And then, you know, the night that we went to the thing, we came back. We're all trying to decide who we're going to vote for. And as we're getting us on to the boat boat it rains and so we're just screaming crying I took my shirt off had it over my head and was trying to just get five drops into my mouth it was it's horrendous so I think that physical thing is what we're not ever taking into consideration nearly as much we're talking about all of their personality traits but that's how long can they keep that up that's why it's 39 days and that's why it's a rough game.

Just go back to that survivor all stars and the idea of the pregame the pregame alliance. We were in a situation where it was like, hey, we're going to all go back. Most of us know each other. And again, it was there was no social media. You basically had somebody's phone number. And that was it. And maybe an email address.

And then you could sort of reach out to people that way but it wasn't nearly as much as it connections did you talk to people in terms of pre-gaming and and what was going on you know what I didn't I guess I'm just a stickler I really wanted to do it again and I didn't want sir I was like I'm afraid CBS has long tentacles you know I was afraid that they'd hear from someone and I'd be out yeah so I didn't talk to anyone afraid that they'd hear from someone and I'd be out. Yeah. So I didn't talk to anyone. I remember being at a charity event and I was, Ethan and I had dated and broken up and

then he was dating Amber and we were all friends about it. So I'm hanging out with those two and we're kind of all dropping hints that we are going. You were at that one and it was with Mitchell and like anyway and we're all kind of dropping in. There was a lot of charity events that summer. There was a lot. But none of us said anything and there was no like you're going, we will collude. Nothing was said. But we kind of had, I knew Rob really well, I knew Amber really well, I knew you really well. You ended up being on the other. I had no one on my

actual first drive besides Ethan. But even Ethan will tell you in interviews, on the side I was like, Ethan, we'll keep you long past Jerry and then we'll vote off Rupert. If it comes down to the last two of us, we'll move forward. But it comes across on the show, like I was saying,

Ethan, you're out because you're a winner. That's not how it was going. Oh, Ethan was so annoyed that like every time Rupert brought fish in, because Ethan and I have been friends for so long. We're still friends. He was so annoyed that like every time Rupert brought fish in because Ethan and I have been friends for so long. We're still friends. He was so annoyed. But no, there was no direct collusion beforehand. Nothing was said. Do you think that other people did have that sort of thing?

Yes. Yes. I thought that Ethan and Lex did, which was one of my fears if those two came together and Kathy. I thought those three would definitely be and end. Big Tom, those four would be together. And then Ethan was voted off before we all came together. But Big Tom, what about Rob to do you think that that that Rob was talking with those guys? No, no. Or if he was, I think I always felt like that the amber thing, like the save amber thing, I think that makes more sense if maybe he was also talking with those guys. But I think he was talking to Lex. maybe he was also talking with those guys.

But I think he was talking to Lex. I don't know about Big Tom. Okay. I think he was friends with Lex. But I don't know about Big Tom. I think that was kind of made on the island. You're smiling like you know something. I don't know.

I don't know anything. It's just fun to speculate about. It is fun to speculate. But I know that there were certain people, certain cliques. Like I didn't talk to Kathy socially. I didn't know who the heck she was. I never talked to Jerry socially. But I thought it was just like, OK, well, let me just try to be friends with as

many people, because again, we were the first people to go back and play in an All-Star season that you just didn't know. And it wasn't like, OK, it wasn't like, OK, well, I know this person, so they won't vote me out because we're friends. No, we didn't really know how it was going to go. And so it was just like you just tried to know as many people as you as you possibly could I think. Yeah, but then you also knew that it was going to eventually happen if your net is spread

wide and your friendship, it's going to happen that you're going to vote someone out. And I know that I think Lex and Ethan don't talk to this day because of that. No, they're friends. Well, I know for like a year it was, he took it bad. Yeah. We voted him out. Yeah, I think he was, I think Ethan was salty about it for a while. But I remember even like talking with like Jenna Maraska like around that time.

Like I remember like sort of like, again, the same sort of thing about dropping like hints. Like I remember, cause we were leaving in like October and I was like, we were talking about like, so what are you going to be for Halloween this year? And she's's like I think that I could be like a like I could be wearing like a survivor costume. Yeah like cast away. But nobody said anything. I know that Rob, Amber, Ethan and I and you never said anything. I think we were more afraid of like. Yeah. We were more afraid of like getting like Smackdown SmackDown and like, you know, like we're gonna take your money away.

We're gonna be kicked off. I think people nowadays, I feel like are not really afraid. Well, also there's so many ways to hide it. I think in, like you said, social media. Yeah. All right, so so many, so many of the things to talk about, let's go back to Survivor 31 a little bit more. Talk to me about some of the people that you saw that were sort of standouts people that you're not super familiar with

But you liked what they were doing last night. I really liked Andrew Andrew Savage. Yes, Andrew Savage. Are you a fan of his the first time around? Yeah, I was I think he's you know He's kind of one of those guys that you root for the family man, the athlete, and even though he's coming back 10 years later. I feel like I have like a weird perception of Andrew because I feel like I know him like through the prism of like when we when I first moved out here, you know, 12 years ago or 11 years ago, I think it's going to be 11 years in November when you know, knowing Johnny Fair play very well, like you sort of like I didn't know Andrew Safran, I just knew him as a guy that Johnny Fair play screwed, talked Like you sort of like I didn't know Andrew Savage. I just knew him as a guy that

Johnny Fairplay screwed. Or at least talked about. Yeah. And you know, and Rhino would talk about Andrew. I really never had interactions with Andrew Savage and Burton to like all these guys. They played. They all played with him.

But wasn't somebody that I knew. So I have a sort of like perception of them like like like not him in in that way in the game. Yeah, in that way. So interesting to see him back. But it did seem like he's playing a similar game to what he was doing in person. And even before the challenge, he's like, hey, there's just 10 of us. We're just one big family and remember. And so it does seem like he's trying to do that tribe unity thing. But there are people that, you know, it seems like he is certainly targeting and it does seem like he's trying to do that tribe unity thing. But there are people that, you know, it seems like he is certainly targeting. And it does feel like very much like the same Pearl Islands where he had his group.

But then there's people who aren't in the group. Right. And I think that's exactly how he's going to play. I don't see him playing a ton differently. I think he's going to rely a lot on his physical strength. As you saw last night, it shows was it fishback fishback, like trying to break that one little stick and he's like throwing over a whole tree and then you've got Joe. Joe was a standout which kind of moving on from Andrew Savage. Joe was a standout and not because he's good looking but because I have not seen anyone

get natural fire on Survivor. Create it. Yeah. Not in a tropical environment. It is extremely difficult. You know it happens but it is rare. Create it. Yeah. Not in a tropical environment. It is extremely difficult. It you know, it happens, but it is rare. Oh, it was it's impressive. And it's impressive.

I know on the on the all stars, I know Rob and Tom were working on it forever. And Suhok would be like, oh, you're never going to get it. Oh, in Borneo, we're going to get it. We're going to get it. It's like where there's smoke, there's fire, but there's no fire. Yep. So she and Rudy were just drinking the water that had all the parasites in it, ate away

their brains. Yeah. But I think Andrew Savage, I think then Kelly, Joe, Joe is going to be strong. Kelly's going to be strong. Who's Kelly remind me of? Kelly Wentworth? Yeah. Kelly, Kelly Wentworth.

Who does she remind me of? Because she's such like an all-American little girl, but she was smart and daring, very smart to go out there and search for the palm trees and. Well, she's somebody who really play she in her first game, she was on the second blood versus water and she played with her dad. And she they did a second blood versus water, which was all new people playing with their loved ones. And so in that season, she was actually the fifth person voted out so she didn't actually

go very far and there's not a big resume for her in the game and last night's episode that was actually probably more screen time than she got in any episode that she was ever in before. So she really had a very good night in terms of how she was going to do it and that was really good TV. Talk about the hidden immunity idol, which has traditionally been hidden at the camp. And which I have no knowledge of. Like we didn't have hidden immunity idols. We didn't have, you know, Exile Island.

But yeah, it's normally in the camp somewhere. So now here it is at the challenge. Do you like this? Yes, I loved it. It was a good TV moment. Yeah, it was. And it sets up like that dichotomy of is it worth it to out myself that I know I searched it, I found it and now I have it because then you do paint a huge target. Is it worth it or do you just give it up and trust that you know, you don't have a target right now?

I'm not going to go for it. Now, what do you think the cost benefit is? Is it always worth it to have it? We saw we saw Steven who? He was seen as somebody who's off looking for it and people are like, hey, where's Steven? And so, you know, it does come at a cost if you don't get it, right? But I think he was too that's why I was saying I think Kelly did it very smartly She was like, I'm just gonna go find these cocon. And obviously she probably did it in a short amount of time.

Or there would have been more on it of where is she? Or didn't show that in editing. But I think that it was smart of her to go for it and grab it. She did it at the perfect moment when everyone thought that Kelly might have a chance. Or who took over Joe, I think came over and tried to get it. Yeah, it was a perfect moment. And she went for it. So it's always worth it to have it. It's always worth it. Yeah, I think came over and tried to get it. Yeah, it was a perfect moment and she went for it So it's always worth it to have it. It's always worth it. Yeah, I think so

So if you were gonna play again, let's say hypothetically you were in the mix survivor third time's a charm Come on CBS. I do want to play again. You do. Yeah, okay. I Do yeah, I don't I'm good. I would I would have to come up here and learn from you Okay, you know you just watched all 30 episodes or 30 I do. Yeah, I don't. I'm good. I would I would have to come up here and learn from you. OK, you know, you just watched all 30 episodes or 30. Well, that's why I want to ask you of how much would you go back and watch the previous season, let's say, like if you were somebody if you were like a Kelly and I think and who knows?

Like Kelly says she doesn't own a TV. She might watch something. And who knows what she actually looked at and how much she's playing us. We don't we don't really know right, but what would you do? Would you watch would you watch the last couple seasons? Would you try to watch many seasons? Would you not even bother with it? I think I would watch all of the seasons the introduced elements. I didn't know about Like I definitely want to know about hidden immunity idols Like I said, I just haven't watched enough about those to know where they are. Exile Island, which I think they didn't just have

there, but they had it like two or three times or? They had it a lot in the middle seasons of Survivor. They actually brought it back in Survivor 29, but for the most part it's pretty much gone. Yeah, but that was only two seasons ago. Yeah, but they just did it because they had a thing called Redemption Island also. Right, I remember that. And so they didn't want to do Redemption Island, so they did Exile Island in that season. But for the most part, Exile Island is not.

But they could always bring that back, you know? I don't know. And then this time they're trying to, you know, they're always trying to find ways to take the formula and make it new, like putting the idol in a very public place. And then you've got them not letting them go back to their camp to kind of talk about the vote Like those were two things that were pretty new to this season last night, right? Yes But let's go back to you go back to you sweet So if they did so hypothetically survivor third time's a charm

Why do you why do you want to play again? Is it is it the game that you really want to play again? Is it that the desire to win is it? Is it the money? What is the- It's not the money. Yeah. It's just, it's burning. Like all these people have good jobs. They still, it eats at you. Like I had this wonderful experience

and I've had wonderful experiences since, but it's kind of like being in a war. Like you lost, you lost the war. You're out there and you're physically depleted and you're giving it everything you can, but it's like Couch Potato Warrior. You're sitting, you have to remind yourself how you're going to feel when you're watching this sitting on your couch.

And I try to get in that mindset even for the second time I played. But you still just get you get worn down and I forget. I want to go back again and do it better smarter. I talked way too much on all starts. Probably talking way too much now. That's interesting. I really I didn't think that you had that that you really wanted to do it again. Yeah. Yeah. It's just I think until you win, which is, you know, only so many

people, you know, in talking with Rob, you know, he came back. He won on his fourth time. Was when I want the third when he won. And he's always said since then, he's like, I'm not dumb. I'm not coming back again. That's it. Yeah. I'm done. And you really feel like so that that's it. It's not so much about the game. It's more about, you know, you want it until you win. And then that's it. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I want to win. I want to play the game. I want to see how much I can change my game. I changed a lot from the first one. I knew nothing.

But I think even at the last bit, I should I, you know, I look back and I look at all the moves I could have done when she was still there and like, why did I hate her? Why did my hatred for she and still hate her? Why did my hatred for she and I can't say without spitting she and why does my hatred why did you hate she and there was so much because she got when I went back and I watched the season that she got on my nerves because I did live with her. Well, you know, I never have. When I went back and watched the season, she got on my nerves because I had... Live with her. Well, I never have.

And I've only had positive interactions with her in real life. But I felt like that what was annoying to me about her on the TV show was that she was always talking about how she's so smart and everybody else is so dumb. Yeah. And she would sit back and let you do things and then be like, you could have done that differently. Like I would climb the banana tree with a machete in my mouth. And then she would be like, you probably could have just thrown the machete. I'm like, it's 40

feet. What are you circus performer? You can't throw a machete up there and hit it. Everything was I'm not willing to do it, but you know, correcting everything. And it was kind of the same way with her gameplay. As soon as it got down to those finals, she was like, well, you guys really need me as that swing vote in order to break them up. And nobody took her up on it. Thank God. Yeah. I hated her. Real Monday morning quarterback.

That's terrible. I'm sorry. I shouldn't hate her. I'm sure she's a lovely person. I've only had positive interactions with her in real life. And I've never had one. You've never had an interaction with her? Outside of the game. As soon as we ended that last bit on the stage when we announced the winner, I never ever saw her again.

I never have. She is not a Facebook friend. Also, it really kind of irked me that she made such a big fuss. She was the only person who was like how Amber was Lady Macbeth, and she was the one pulling the strings the whole time in the whole game. Yeah, that's because Amber handed her a car. You know, at the end I was so mad.

I was like, I told you. That was why Amber gave her the car. No, Amber said she gave her the car because she voted for her. But I was like. Yeah, that's why she voted for her. Yeah, see, that's so dumb. She probably voted for her because she hated Rob so much, which is the same as if she hadn't been up there.

I couldn't have voted for her. I don't care. No matter how good her gameplay was. That's how strong your feelings are attached to Survivor. And that's why I want to play again. Your feelings are so strong. Because 11 years later, you still have these strong feelings. Yes, because I can't even say her name without spitting. All right. So we have so many different questions to get through. I know that you can't stay here all day long. So let's start to segue into some of these questions that I have for you in terms of,

I asked the listeners of Rob is a Podcast to give us some questions for Jenna Lewis. Okay. All right. Megan Yost wants to know, who do you still keep in touch with from Borneo? From Borneo? Anybody? From Borneo, Ramona, Jervis, Gretchen.

Yeah. What's Ramona doing? Ramona has a, oh god, I want to say little boy. And now that I'm looking at the Facebook in my head, Ramona is married, has a little boy. So I just follow her on that. And then Gretchen, Jervis, Ramona, and I will tweet each other and be like, when's the reunion?

And Richard Hatch, I still am in contact with mm-hmm Um I love him. I really love Richard. I do I love Richard. He'll ever play again I would love for him to play again. I think CBS times the charm owes it Third time Richard hasn't gotten to play so oh of course. Yeah, sorry I'm thinking of the second time after all of the drama that's gone on in the last like five years Yes him going to jail yes after all of the drama that's gone on in the last like five years. Yes.

Him going to jail. Yes. I really would love to see Richard do it again. Yeah. And can we get Greg on his team? It would be phenomenal. That would be really exciting to see. Do you feel like if you were gonna play again,

would you subject yourself to a America vote? Sure, sure. Yeah, because I think that. I mean, Kelly got voted back in Jeff and Kimmy I do feel like there's a reverence and I feel like you're almost not even aware of it how much people Really do have this sort of nostalgia for those classic, you know first second seasons for T-bird Obviously not so much the third season. Yeah, but those first two those first two seasons I think that there is sort of a clamoring that you do want

to see a lot of these people. And I feel like especially Australia, more so than Borneo, they've brought back so many people now from Australia. There were five people in Survivor All-Stars. You can't even think about that. Yeah. And it was a season that had like 40 million people a week. But you had between Tina, Alicia, Amber, Colby and Jerry.

They all came back. Mike Scoopin came back in Survivor. And then you have now Kimmy and Jeff are back. That's half the cast already. Yeah. They haven't brought back a lot of the beginners from our show. They would have brought back Elizabeth Hasselback if she ever wanted to play. Oh, good God. Who wants to listen to that woman speak anymore? She's gotten her say. Well, she would. I mean, she would have come back if, you know, you know, and and who knows

at what point probably, I guess, the All Stars and maybe in place of Amber. And they have a whole different season. Yeah. So the Australia cast there, they love going to that well. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that it was a They knew the formula from Survivor one I think they picked very good characters that would give big personalities for Survivor to They realized that it wasn't going to be as much about the physical It was going to be about each person's personality coming out All right

Feinberg wants to know what one-time player from Borneo do we still need to see back now from Borneo? We've had of course we had what Sue Rich Rudy and you came back on the All Stars plus then Jervis has now come back Kelly now Kelly has come back that's six of 16. I say there's two yeah Colleen Haskell if you can get a hold of her she'll never do it again no she'll never do it again why doesn't she want to do it again what's what's what's her problem why doesn't she like she's an elevated human being she doesn't she want to do it again? What's what's what's her problem? Why doesn't she like she's an elevated human being. She doesn't have the desire like we do.

We're just cheap hacks, I guess, to her. I adore her, but I think she she just saw it as fun and games as opposed to like real life, which was is funny to me that Greg would even consider coming back. I would like to see Greg shoot. Now I'm naming three Sean Kniff. Yes, I want to see Sean. When I went back and did my rewatch of Survivor Borneo, Now I'm naming three. Sean Kniff. Yes. I want to see Sean. When I went back and did my rewatch of Survivor Borneo, I had a whole theory about how Sean

was smarter than he led on. The guy is a neurosurgeon and and because Tagi they always voted where he was voting. He was in on it. We asked Richard Hatch about this. He says he laughed. No way. No, I'm with Richard. I'm sorry. I love Sean.

I really do. But he's just you can be book smart and be very smart and still not understand people and your effect on them. He did not understand the effect he was having on them as he built a bowling alley and they didn't, you know, it was silliness. He just didn't kind of get it. But I would love to see him play again. Yeah.

Yeah. You think he would do it? Yeah, I do. Do you stay in touch with him? Through Facebook, you know, just now and then I he just had twins. So it's remarkable how many survivors have had twins. Can I say that? Sure. Like, I mean, Sean has had twins.

Burton has had twins. It was like Kelly Goldsmith. That's someone I'd like to see back. Yeah. She is a hoot. I've really had very few interactions with her. I'm trying to think if I ever met her in person. I don't really remember that I did or not. She's awesome.

Yeah, I used to email with her. Another one, Lindsay from Survivor 2. Three. Three, yeah, with Ethan, sorry. Yes. Africa. She was hilarious. I would like to know what she's doing.

We paled around for like five months. It's like best friends. So I would like to know what she's doing. We palled around for like five months. It's like best friends. So I would like to see her do it again. Amy Shapiro wants to know Jenna was a young mother in Borneo and Kelly has talked about in her pregame interviews last night about being a new mom and how that's going to affect her game. How hard was it for Jenna to be away from her kids who are probably in college right now and they are. And how does she think that Kelly will hold up in that regard? I really don't think it really prepares you. In fact, it's a detriment.

Because Kelly's baby, I feel like, is younger even than Sadie and Sabrina, right? In terms of when you play. I don't know, how old is Kelly's baby? I want to say that her baby's a year and a half. Oh, OK, so my girls were three. Yeah, I think that it doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

I think that women are more tied to your children, so you think about them so much more. And that's mean to say as I'm sitting across from my father, but I really don't feel like it gave me any skills. She's like, I've had a baby. I can do anything. Yeah, so have every other woman in the world that doesn't mean they can play Survivor better okay that's like saying because I have a vagina I can play better it's not true maybe it is I don't know doesn't hurt right no it doesn't Jonathan Schwartz

wants to also about Kelly Kelly by Goldsworth looked a little bit overwhelmed last night she's definitely a strong person but do you think that the game is gonna be too fast for her this time around? Do you think that she will be able to adjust eventually? I think that she's going to be one of those people that kind of plays like an amber. She's I don't think she has the scheming in her, even though she says she might. I just think she's too introverted to when she hears somebody say this is who we're going to vote for, she's going to listen to them. So she will be voted out. That's how I feel.

Elizabeth Ames wants to know, does Jenna think that Kelly Wigglesworth ended up losing by one vote only because Jervis and Colleen changed at the last second due to Sue's snakes and rats speech? Let's go back to that because it was such a iconic moment. It's been talked about so much. You were sitting there, you had a front row seat for the, and I would let the vultures do with you. Your body is there. With no ill redress.

I would not give you a drink of water on the road. Right, so you were sitting there. So what, first off, what was going through your mind as that was sort of unfolding? I was like, really, we're doing this? Well, yeah, I was flabbergasted, number one, because everybody still, even though you voted for somebody, you wouldn't get up there

and just go on a diatribe about how terrible they were. You just kind of were like, this is the reason. But for her to have such vengeance, I know that she was the most recent out, you know, what four days or something because Rudy was voted after. But she just had such, but that's Sue. That's the other thing I was thinking. I was thinking only Sue could make a speech like that. But I was shocked. It did not change my vote, thing I was thinking. I was thinking only Sue could make a speech like that.

But I was shocked. It did not change my vote, but I was shocked. Yeah, I was shocked. She had the balls and she said that a couple of times like I got big bad. I'm like, yeah, I think you do. Maybe that's what extra paid to have lopped off. She had like a whole makeover. I remember. I remember they offered me after I did something where I was like, God, no one paid for me

to get a boob job. And then they were like, we will. I was like, no, thank you. Yeah. So when that's all happening, did people change their votes to vote for Kelly? Was it like, oh, we feel bad for her now. Let's vote for her. Yeah, I think they probably did.

I think they might. I know that Colleen had a lot of respect for Richard Hatch and his game. But you know, Colleen and Kelly and I used to hang out a lot. So I'm not sure if the speech swung her, but good gosh, hearing something like that, I wanted to vote for Kelly. That made me feel so bad for her. Nobody's sitting up there in the finals. I don't care how they got there.

Yes. They made it. They beat you. You asked Kelly Wigglesworth in the final trial with Councilman Borneo, who would you replace with yourselves? Yeah. And she gave an incredibly bad answer. She said, Sonja and Gretchen, two people that weren't even there.

Yeah, that's a bad answer. You get to play to your crowd. Like, she should have said something like Jervis, that weren't even there. Yeah, that's a bad answer. You get a play to your crowd. She should have said something like Jervis, because what I loved about Jervis's speech the night he got voted off, when he was pretty much like, you better vote me off tonight because if you don't, I'm coming for you. I will win every single one. If she'd have said something like that,

I wish Jervis was up here. He had the panache to say that. I think she would have swung another vote. Richard, to his credit, said Rudy and Greg. Yeah. I think that was smart because he really... Richard held a very soft spot for Rudy. But you still voted for Kelly. Yes. Yeah. Because she was your friend? Kind of because she was my friend, but also because I hated the fact I'd been schemed

so terribly by Richard Hatch. That's why. And that shouldn't have been. As a later viewer of Survivor, you kind of have this view of, oh, it's whoever played the game in quotes played the game But out there you have real emotions attached to what's going on Brendan Fitzpatrick wants to know old school or new school who would you side with would you have flipped like Marner to avoid? Drawing rocks at the first tribal council now. You're somebody who you know, obviously by Trade would be old school because you've obviously played in the first season. But I do feel like that your game would speak more to the beach people in terms of that.

I could see you there talking about who do we get rid of first. So which group do you feel like you would have fit in better with the people talking about the scheming for sure? I would have definitely been the hard worker. But as soon as I saw people starting to break off and have those conversations, I would make sure and integrate myself into them. Alan Ridgeway wants to do that. Vitas would have gone home if they would have gone back to camp

instead of going straight to tribal council. How big do you think that was that he didn't have the opportunity to be able to scramble? Because he's a guy who, if the target was on him, I do feel like he's somebody who could have figured it out in terms of not having that opportunity. How much was that something that really hurt him? It's huge. It's huge.

I think there's so much that happens from the time you come home from whatever immunity challenge is. Everyone is sitting there thinking about it and scheming. But if you're not thinking about it and you just lost and you have to vote you've had no time to secure all of the people in your alliance you're especially the first one you don't even know if you have an alliance so I think that Vitas could have shifted it maybe even to Kelly because she had done so poorly in the challenge. And Ryan LeBlanc wants to know 15 years later knowing everything

that we know about Survivor and how the game now works, would you still have cast your vote for Kelly to win over Richard? That's tough. Um, no, I don't think that I would have. So that's a great question. I wouldn't have. When's the last time you talked to Kelly? Because I feel like when we when I used to, you know, do the fishball and we used to like,

she used to come around then I used to see her likebowl. And we used to like, she used to come around then. I used to see her like. No then. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, were you guys friendly for years after that? Or it was just like that we were doing stuff talking about Survivor and she just happened to be around. Yeah, she just happened to be around,

but we weren't that friendly at that point. Yeah. Ever since All Stars. But before that, you know, there was kind of like a, like a bootcamp sort of, you go through bootcamp, you're friends for a while and then you just drop off. Yeah, not that I've been in boot camp, but I'm just like, yeah, like fitness boot camp. Yeah, fitness boot camp.

There you go. Right. But yeah, I think that we were all kind of put together and we'd all gone through the same experience. So we shared a bond, but we never kept up our friendship. Okay. I did love the Joe when he's teaching yoga last night. And it shows all these girls just

drooling over him because there's so many moments I feel like in the show where it shows all these girls in these scantily clad bikinis or like the showering scenes where they'll have water on them pouring it over them. It's always like an objectification of women. I was so excited to see finally them objectifying a man. Yes. Do you feel like that that's what's going on there? Should Joe be offended? No. Do I walk around being offended if people are like, hey, she's less than a size 20

like Kimmy Kappenberg. Like she should be viewed as the hot girl. No. You just go with it. You use it when it's necessary and then just kind of write it out. Now, Joe comes into this season as somebody who is sort of like the guy that has, you know, buzz on him because he was one of the most popular people that played last season and he comes back. You know, you and I played with Rupert, but Rupert didn't really have that in terms of

making him a target. Tell me if I'm wrong about this. I don't think that people were gunning for Rupert in any way because he was so popular. Why do you think that's different that people are somewhat saying like, okay, we have to worry about Joe? Is it because that Joe is seems like he is more of the total package in terms of somebody who could actually win the game? Yeah. And I think last night he proved that he isn't just a pretty face when he got them fired and he was one of the hard workers around camp. That goes a long way. And he also didn't cause any drama

and or approach anyone with some big scheme, you know? And he didn't seem fake like Vitas, I don't know him, but I, as a woman would have felt like he was smarmy last night. He didn't come across as smarmy. He may be a good looking guy and there's been other good looking guys on there that know they are and they carry themselves like that.

I don't think he did and he worked hard and he got them fired. Is it hard for a man to play the flirt card on Survivor? Yes, because women don't. We don't bow to that nearly as much. Men have a resonance in their souls to beautiful women. You just can't even help yourself. They're talking to you and you want to do what they say. We don't have that.

We we just look at you guys and we're like, OK, you're going to provide us with something or cut me loose. I just don't have that. You're cute. I want to keep you. Yeah. Joel, Greg, Jervis, none of it. Sean, they tried to set us up. That's one of the things I want to ask you about. So back in Borneo, when they had like the meeting where it was like

they had like the summit, it was like they had like the summit, it was like they desperately wanted you and Sean to get together. Yeah, we had like three, four glasses of wine, like sitting out there in this romantic thing. But I never lost sight of the game. I loved it because I was sitting there at the summit, even intoxicated, asking Sean questions all about his tribe because I knew that he would just give them to me. That's why I know that Sean doesn't have that much else going on because he sat there telling me, oh and then they voted off it was when they voted off Dirk. He was like then they voted off Dirk and I wasn't expecting that and immediately I was like he's not in the know as to what they're

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in season six after I had watched, you know, four and a half seasons of it playing out. But you were somebody that what you saw like an ad in the newspaper or- It was on my AOL homepage. AOL, which I don't even know if it exists anymore. Right, and so you were on there and okay, and then you talk to people and like I've seen like I used to

have like the DVDs of like they had like the audition footage and they're like talking to you and then so they're basically like we're leaving from Los Angeles and you're getting on a plane. Could you just talk a little bit about like process? Not necessarily like the you know the gory details of like you know going through it but just like in terms of like what you even thought you were going to do, like, did you really understand like this was going to be a game? Like I know you, you knew you were going somewhere. You knew it was going to be a TV show. Yeah. But outside of that, like, what did you even know what you were going to do? We really started to hit home when we got to Borneo and they

took us to a headhunters village and this guy starts telling us everything that's gonna try to kill us, everything that we can't touch. And then it starts to settle in that, okay, this isn't just like us picnicking out here and then playing these challenges, which had been described to us, but this is going to be physically, we could die.

Like there were all these, I mean, we lived on Snake Island where the snakes every night would come up to Get the rats and rats just crawled on you all night We weren't prepared for that at all no matter what they tell you you're not prepared to be crawled on by 50 rats at night Nibbling at your mouth you're just not and the first night as we laid there like all still shiny from the boat like oh my gosh We're gonna finish our shelter tomorrow and but still have foodumbling around. And then like rats just come out like a bad B movie. And you're like, oh, this is not what I signed up for. No, we had no idea.

And I certainly was, I was too blown away by the physical part that I didn't take the mental part into consideration as quickly as I should have, as quickly as Richard Hatch did. Mm-hmm, yeah. And of course, like, you know, we all know that story. But it's just, I can't even imagine what it's like Like I've like I have no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea what's coming next

No here with these complete strangers was there more of a camaraderie between you guys because it was like, okay These aren't just people that I'm you know going through this experience with but these are the only people I know That are here in the whole world. And I'm like stranded on this island. And, OK, allegedly, this is going to be a TV show. But it's sort of like you sort of like trust in the production of, OK, well, they're not going to let us die. This is a big show.

Survivor, it's going to be on TV. We didn't know it would be a big show. You didn't know, but you didn't have no idea what it is. You never heard you don't have any idea. Okay, well, there's Jeff Probst. It's just like, that's some guy. He was like standing just like he was last night as we're trying to gather stuff. And I remember just elbowing him like, I don't care who the heck you are, if I'm going to

have to survive, get off that tarp. Like that's ours. I was going past him. I was like, who the F is this guy? He's like, he's the host. I don't know what a host is. And previously I thought that was a biology him. I was like, who the F is this guy? He's like, he's the host. I don't know what a host is. And previously I thought that was a biology term. Yeah.

And did you have any sort of training in terms of like what you were going to do? Like, did you know what to read or anything like that? I read the SAS Survival Guide, which is like the army issued one. And I had been like a trail guide out in Maine. And I did grow up in Maine and New Hampshire, which is much more outdoorsy and I grew up,

you know, I'm 38, so 25 years ago. That's when you ran around and you get, you know, you have a night out in the Maine winter. So I did have a little bit more of the survival instincts than some of the people. I'd helped my dad gut rabbits. So I had a little bit of technique, but not like Gretchen, who was like an army survival

guide. We just revered her when we found that out. I was like, I'll do anything you say. And did your family like think that you were crazy that you were going to go do this? Yes. Yeah. That's the biggest thing is now if you say, oh my gosh, I got unsurvivor, people are like, oh my gosh, I told my family and my mom, they wouldn't talk to me for a week, Rob.

They thought I was abandoning my cult. Yes, they were like, you're abandoning these three year olds with us? Here, here, take these kids for seven weeks. We're not gonna have any contact with you. They didn't know where I was going. I mean, that's the crazy part. People thought I was nuts.

And why did you end up doing it? You thought like, okay, I'm gonna win a million dollars. When else am I gonna have a chance to win a million dollars it? You thought like, OK, I'm going to win a million dollars. When else am I going to have a chance to win a million dollars? Yeah. And I was like, also, I'd never left my little town of New Hampshire. I mean, I'd gone down to Boston and thought it was a big trip. So to be like in a, you know, headhunters village in Borneo, I thought the life experience would be good for me. I'd never get a chance like that again.

And even if it never went to air, you carry something like that around with you. That's crazy. It really is. Martin Leeds wants to know, what did you think of the Abby bracelet in PG's bag? I just can't see any scenario that fell out of the tree inside PG's bag or that she stole it on day one. Somebody either wants to paint a target on PG's back or wants to awaken the Brazilian dragon. Well, what do you make of all that?

I thought I actually thought somebody probably put it in PG's bag or put it in PG's bag to get Abby mad. I think somebody probably found Abby's bag after she had made such a stink about it and just put it in PG's bag because PG didn't seem to think that the bracelet was in there. She was just like, oh, I put that bag in mine. But gosh, if I hear Abby talk too much, she's like, I'm not going to tell anyone. Like, she's so refined. And then she's like, it shows eight clips of her telling everyone

because she couldn't even help herself. So I think somebody probably put it in PG's bag. OK, why you feel like another player would do that? Yes. Just to get Abby Maria worked up. I think it'll come out that one of the guys that was sitting there listening to her and I don't remember every guy that was in the scene. I'm sorry. I don't know all of them, but was sitting there going, oh, my gosh, she's so worked up about this bracelet.

And everyone kept saying, well, the bags are all around. Even Varner was like, bags are all here. I think somebody probably found her bag and was like, just throw it in here. Let's see what she does. She's crazy. At that point, she'd been walking around while people are working to survive. I think somebody probably found her bag and was like, just throw it in here. Let's see what she does. She's crazy. At that point, she'd been walking around while people are working to survive. And she's like, well, I had a bag and they're like, there's nothing in your bag. You're who cares about a bracelet.

The bracelet gives her superpowers. Oh my God. Can it be a superpower not to annoy? I think that's why she needed it. Like, oh, like one of those like magnetic iron blood circulation copper things that kind of keep you meditative. Please, if it would just link directly to her esophagus so she couldn't speak. Daniel Latiana wants to know, I loved how fierce Jenna became in All Stars when she

played a very aggressive game that almost won her the game. What female player do you think has the best chance to win it all? Do you watch the show and root for the women? Like do you root for like I really hope a woman wins this season? I mean I don't. I respect the women that go out there because I think it's it's very physically demanding and I think there's so much credit given to men. But after being considered a strong woman, men do have an advantage strength wise out there in a lot of those challenges. Talk to me about this because it's been something that really over the years continues to be

a thing that there is a lot of people who feel like the show, both in the edit and the way it portrays certain people, that it's not necessarily equal between men and women. And I know that I feel like this is something that you've talked about before in the past where you feel like a person like you in the all stars where they have like harsh things to say about the other people is considered that's oh, that person's a bitch. But if it was a guy saying those sort of things, then that person would be looked at with a you know, in a much more positive light. Do you feel like based on what what you watched last night, do you feel like that's still a thing?

Yes, absolutely. I think as soon as like if you see a guy being scheming, you're immediately like, oh, he's playing the game early. He's so smart. Oh, like people can say whatever they want about Abby right now because she annoyed them. But is that survivor or is that people that are watching the show? Oh, that's it's a combination. It's kind of society. Unfortunately, you read about it all the time and every woman, men hear it and they think

that it's really just a farce But if I'm being snarky, I'm a bitch if I'm being aggressive I'm pushy and too aggressive in a bad way if a guy's being aggressive. He's just being a dude. He's being a guy That's what they expect. So there's no connotation negative put to it. So yeah, it's unfair for women You're expected to be strong, but as soon as you are you're looked down on for it So so who do I like but Am I rooting for the women? Yes. There were a couple people. I was going to ask you if you're going to be friends with She-Anne now. No. Okay. No. I'm sorry. Until I get to play with her again. Maybe we can get CBS to let us

do amazing raise. Oh, that would be good. We haven't spoken in like 13 years and I hate her. She probably hates me too. Some sort of like long, long. Enemies? Frenemies. Exactly. That would be a great episode for Amazing Race. Frenemies. So no, I'm not going to be friends with Shann. But as far as the women, I really liked Kelly last night. I thought that she, number one, showed some physical strength, but also very adept at knowing the game and leaving the coconuts on the path in case people came.

I liked her a lot. Tasha? Tasha Fox. I liked Tasha Fox. I loved the intro of her, of how she played the first time and wanted to be. And I liked that the guys chose her. Do you notice the guys only chose her amongst all of the people as the women? The remainder of their non-alliance were all girls.

But I think that she will be a strong force physically and mentally. Daniel Asher wants to know, would Jenna change her final four decision from All Stars if you could go back? Is there any way that you feel like a path that you could have won in All Stars? Yes. Okay. Other than win that final three immunity? No, there was another path. Like I said, if I'd had the foresight when there was that

Big Tom and Sheehan were still there, Sheehan kept saying it, but I hated her so much. I couldn't do it. But I could have, Rupert and I could have taken Big Tom. Same way that I kind of subverted it to create. At six or at seven? No, at five. Okay. Because there was us four, the Alliance still, and Big Tom. Yes. So we could have have he wanted to just stay

So after he had that big fight with Rob, we could have Rupert and I which means I should have because Rupert Can't take the reins on anything. Yeah, the fishing pole. I should have gone to Big Tom and said this is your only way Rob's dominant we need to get him off. Mm-hmm. And I think he might have won a challenge So then we could have taken Amber off and taken away his power. Mm-hmm Yeah, it was really tricky In at that spot I think they're also cuz Tom is also trying to like he might not wanted to have even talked to you because he's trying to Prove like to Rob like hey, I told you my word is good

Like, you know, I shook your hand and he got he gets gets really defensive also because he, you know, kind of was talking. That's because he never did. Yeah. He never did talk to him. Never did talk to him. It seemed like they were buddies. They were buddies. But no, Rupert Rupert was on the up and up. We never approached Tom. That's why when I told Rob that it was completely just getting them to fight so that I knew they weren't going to take one of us out. Mm hmm.

But I should have if I really wanted to, but I honestly didn't know the strength to you of how Rob and Amber. I was hoping that I could swing Amber or Rob to vote for the other one. I mean, they got married and they have kids. So that's hard. It's tough. Yes. We didn't. I mean, in a little bit of fairness, like they were people that we both, that we all knew separately and we just started like, you know, hooking up during the show

and it was like, okay, well, this is like a little fling here. Yeah, we didn't know it was a lot of little love. And who knows, they could break up after the show. Or one of them could have been playing on emotions, you know, the whole thing with like Jerry and Colby, how they were kind of thinking that they were playing on each other. Yeah, I think it could have, I thought that I might be able to take amber and turn against Rob and or Rob Because I was really good friends with Rob before it Rob against amber Daniel also wants to know Did you think that the show telegraphed the VDIS vote now?

You're somebody who you haven't been following the show super close Did you feel like Vetus was going home when it went to travel council? I did, I really did. I mean, they always kind of line you up a couple options. They never leave it just hanging, like it's a complete shock. You could tell through the editing

that it was painting Abby as being annoying to everyone. And it was painting Vetus as being annoying to a lot of people. So you know it was one or the other, but I did have a good idea that it was be Vetus because of the talk that they had where he had all of the connections to the other tribe. They were worried more about what he could do in the long game. Ron Chan wants to know, Jenna, do you have any embarrassing stories involving Rob from

the fishbowl days that you can share? And let me just note, if it's too embarrassing, I'll edit it out. So just so if it's do you have an appropriately embarrassing story? I'm trying to think if we do. I mean, probably a lot of it would more be when we filmed Kill Reality. Yes. Well, I think a lot of people were wondering if you were here for the promote the 10 year anniversary Blu Ray edition of The Scorned. No, I'm not. But I'm surprised that's still even an edition.

Not yet. Not yet. But this is the 10 years ago. This summer was when we did Kill Reality and made and made the movie The Scorn, which I believe is available on Amazon, I believe for less than a dollar. Is it for less than a dollar? That's so funny. Wow. Good thing I wasn't on that production.

Just kidding. Um, embarrassing stories. I think... A dollar forty six. A dollar forty six? Yes. Allegedly there is a Blu-ray. I had no idea you get the Blu-ray for $12.99.

That's a good deal. They bothered to put out a Blu-ray? Somebody made a Blu-ray of it. That's hilarious. I think it's a different movie when you click on the Blu-ray link. I was like Rob Kubanek or what was his name? Kubanos? He's out there just pressing him in his house. It's so weird.

Amazon doesn't even know what to do. It's like it's the DVD of the movie. If you have no idea what we're talking about around the time after we Jenna and I were working on the on the fishball we were involved with, there was a reality show that was making a movie with with all people from Survivor and Big Brother and the Amazing Race and The Bachelor and the was one person from the Stacey J who was like kicked off on like the second episode of Apprentice 2. But anyway, It was like I kicked off on like the second episode of Apprentice 2, but anyway. How did they choose her?

Who you chose her? I had say in it, but I got outvoted on certain things. Like, she had a boob job, so she got in? I don't know, look, that's a different podcast. Ryken, right, where's Ryken? He's the winner of Amazing Race 4, I think. But we made this, it was like a Project Greenlight where we made a TV show. The TV show was on E and then the movie got released and the DVD of the movie was a horror

movie in quotes. And you can get the DVD now for $1.46. I think you have to. It's like one of those, it's going to be a cult classic, you know? It's going to be way, way. Like the last house on the left got remade like 25 years later. They're going to remake it? Yeah, they're going to buy your script, Rob, and they're going to turn this into a really

cool new horror genre. Wow. Like a fun one like Cabin Fever. But it's so funny because then when you, so it's a dollar forty six for the DVD on Amazon and then if you click the Blu-ray for twelve ninety nine but it's a completely different movie. They're like we don't know. No one will make it.

Maybe. See somebody did. You would have gotten something for that. I don't think I got something the first time. Embarrassing stories. I don't know if it's embarrassing, but we played this game that we love to play called Why Because, which Rob I'm coming up another time and we are getting Mitchell, Ethan, you, me, Jenna Moraska to all submit based on this season

some Why Because's and you can go over the rules of the game, but we're playing this game where somebody just writes a why question. It doesn't it's open ended and then you write a because which is also close ended and Rob put why is Trisha such a bleep word and I don't know why I didn't go along with it. Rob looked at everyone was like it was Jenna. I should have the smarter side of me later lying in bed that night was like, I so should have gone with it. Who cares? I should have been like, yup. I should have just sat there and said nothing else, but yes.

But it devolved into like her screaming and running away and locking herself in her porn ladled room that fair play had pinned 85 centerfolds to her room and cramped in her bed. It was just... It was another place in time. There you go. There's your embarrassing story. David Healy, the great David Healy wants to know, in All Stars Jenna you targeted the

winners. If you were on a second chance season, would you target people based on the placement they did the first time around? Absolutely not. We touched on this at the beginning of what you and I talked about. But if you were with the right people, you could say like, hey, he was third place. You and I, we were seven. He was third. I mean, it's all about you have to find things to decide your alliance.

And that was one thing I could play up in order to get Jerry and Rupert, who were two souls that I thought would follow me. I needed reasons to tie them to me to get other people off. And that just happened to be that the other two left over were Tina and Ethan. You know, one of the things I always wondered about the All Stars where they did something where you know, when they announced, hey, it's Survivor All Stars, they said, oh, is it going to be $2 million? It's going to be $5 million? Oh, it's going to be exactly the same.

But what they did was they raised all of the prize money as you well know. Did you feel like that people were sort of playing tighter in that game and more scared to make a move? Like you said, okay, well, maybe I could have made a move at five or six or seven. But what they did was where second place was like $250 fifty thousand dollars and it went down from there were people more Saying like well hey You know Rob might win the game But I you know I don't want to screw up my position

Here and end up going out eight instead of going out fourth because it was a substantial monetary Decrease whereas now the second place gets a hundred thousand dollars I feel like you know third is third gets like even, you know, less than, you know, lower, lower, lower. And it's not that big of a difference, say, between, you know, fourth and eighth place as there was certainly in that season where all of the second and third and whatever was so drastically getting higher. Yeah, the participation money, I think, was a huge drop.

People like right out the gate got 50 grand, I think, just to go. I think it was 25. Was it? OK, but it wasn't for me. I'll tell you that. I if I could have found any way that I saw a for sure way to win, I wanted it. This was about getting me as far as I could so that then I could depend on myself. Kind of how Kelly did in her first game. Like you get to where you can kind of rely on yourself.

And I had to put myself either in the top five or the top three. And I did top three. Yeah. But it wasn't for the prize money. I wanted the million and I wanted to win. Like I said, it eats at me. I wanted to win. I didn't know you were like tortured about this. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit. I think anyone who really loves the game and has gone out there and you give it your all

and you change who you are and then you go back and you realize you didn't change enough. You feel like you can win. You feel like you have a winning game in you. After watching last night, I don't know if I do. That's sad to admit, but yeah, I think out there, I think that like, I don't know if I do. That's sad to admit. But yeah, I think out there, I think that like, I think what they never show is the physical. I really, both times I've played, I've watched.

People in the first 10 days are fine. Then you can start to pick them off by who's losing it. I think that I definitely make it that far. I think then I could change my game up enough. Yeah, I think I do have a winning game in me. It's so hard. It is. Because not only do you have to be good, and you have to be almost perfect, but you also

have to be lucky. And you have to get in, you know, be lucky with the right group, lucky with the right bounce of the ball, with the tribe swaps, a million different things that you can't control. So you have to be really good at all of the things you can control. But you also have to hope all of the things that you can't control go your way. Yeah. And that's the thing that to me is unappetizing about it. Still want to do it again. I know this. Come on, Rob, you do it again. No, I'm good. Good.

I'm good. That makes me sad. do it again. No, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. That makes me sad. Why? That I'm not... Yeah, that you're retired. You're pretty much just retired. I mean, I love what I get to do now. I really do enjoy this and I kind of feel like better all you guys than me.

Oh, you guys like I'm already doing it again. Right. But in terms of, you know, wanting to ultimately do it, I mean, there is a little bit of that. It would be it would be fun. But I do feel like part of it is just like, well, what's what's even the point? Because like the last time was just like, OK, well, people are going to get rid of me anyway. And then I look at Stephen Fishback, who is, you know, a close friend. And I see him last night and how people are treating

him and targeting him and he's not doing himself any favors either. Right. But I'm like, if you're just going to go and get vote and just get voted out, what's the point? Yes, but I think that I wouldn't be going to just get voted out. You wouldn't? Yeah, you'd be fine. I think I would.

So maybe if I had that, I would be, you know, more, you know, more amped up about it. Nobody sees me as a strategist of the game. And people probably like the way I changed my game to play All-Stars, but I don't think that they were like, oh, she studied and she's a survivor expert and she's scheming. And no, I don't think they'd see that. So I think I'd rate I wouldn't have that big of a target. How would you play with like you get these 20, you know, 22 year olds around and stuff like that? How would you adjust that?

Well, here's the thing I went into all stars with too. I think this is a beautiful way to play as a woman. Men see these young girls that are hot and they think, oh, they're so good to look at, but they never put stock in their strength or their intelligence if you're too hot So I always wanted to go into the game like 15 pounds overweight. The guys will like you because I'm still strong and the women won't be Competitive with you. Yeah to be the hot girl so I think that I I would play it to play to the men and their strengths and

Play along with them like one of the guys, but one of the girls as well, because I'm not their competitor as far as who's cuter, who's hotter. You're onto something. Cause I said to Nicole the other day that, not that I want to go play survivor ever again, but I did tell Nicole the other day, I was like, you know, if I ever played survivor again,

I'm just going to go like completely out of shape. Like I would get more out of shape. Yeah. I gained, I gained 20 pounds to go on All-Stars. And you know, I was, I tried to like split the difference. Like I wanted to put fat on, but I also I felt like I needed to be stronger. I needed to be in better shape. But I think I would just be good. I would go get into worse shape.

I would really much more let myself go because, you know, the thing about Stephen Fishback, you know, he's like, oh, he's already got the label of he's smart. And then like you saw people in like their pregame interviews like, oh, Stephen's big. It's like Stephen's been Stephen's been working out. Like he's a he's twice as big of a threat now. Mm hmm. I think it was something that I did in all my interviews for I know Entertainment Weekly, I think was the only one who ran it that about me trying to put on weight because I didn't

want to compete with the Jerry's or the Ambers. I'm not skinny. I'm not looking to be on the cover of Playboy here. What I want is to win. And in order to do that, you have to walk that fine line. But I'm also very strong. Like your wife, I've been a personal trainer for, you know, 10 years. So I'm very strong.

I would want to hide some of that so they don't view me as a physical, physical threat. But I think that you have to walk the line. I think there's a lot of manipulation in that alone. Not being the super hot girl. No guy's going to take you seriously that alone. Not being the super hot girl, no guy's gonna take you seriously. And not competing with the women. Women are naturally competitive of some girl that's hot. So Kimmy has a shot.

You're being serious? Kimmy has a shot? No, she just, I'm just picking on her because she, I haven't seen her in eight years, but the girls put on a couple pounds. Yes. Yes. Okay. So I'm on your Twitter page.

You want people to follow you on Twitter? Sure. I don't say anything bad. Mostly it's kids photos and then like little weird things that I have to say. I am. So I went to your Twitter page. I ended up somebody tweeted the other day. This is you on a commercial of hosting talk soup. Can I play this? Yeah, sure. I remember doing that show.

Venus Pig becomes a docile as a puppy dog. Plus People magazine's sexiest man of the year. This is a random thing. Somebody is tweeting about in 2015. I hosted talk soup and I went into their, along the place to get my hair done and they had wigs and I refused to not do the first thing with a wig on. I did it and they were so mad at me.

But what were they gonna do? Not have me do it? So I did the first whole part in a wig. Yeah, TalkSoup. Crazy. Yeah. All right. Jenna Lewis is on Twitter.

She's at SSJenna13. If you're gonna get on this survivor third times the charm then We need to get people following you on Twitter. You need to bulk me up. Okay. Yes, I'm gonna start gaining weight This is gonna be great. You need to start gaining Twitter followers. Okay, I can't eat cookies. If you're gonna be the next Jeff Varner Yeah, okay, then I have to work at this. I know that a couple people text on my Twitter Sorry, I'm tweeted on there my Twitter and we saying, Team Jenna, why aren't you on? I was like, I wasn't asked. Second chance. Yeah, I know. So are you just preparing in case there is some sort of a campaign?

You're like Joe Biden. It's like, are you are you running? We will you run? Maybe depends on how that frontrunners doing Only if Colleen doesn't get asked if Colleen doesn't get asked and I'm in yeah, then you One last time that you've ever seen Colleen Do you still do you guys still have any communication none which she answer your phone call if she knew it was me? Yeah, okay? Probably be like what's why you calling me? Yeah, that'd be the first words out of her mouth.

It'd feel like it did another world to her. If they put you on another season with Greg, would you want to vote him out? No, no. You'd work with Greg? Yeah, I love Greg. It's funny, you get a lot of retrospective nostalgia. You're like, oh, he was so cute. He had a coconut phone.

He voted for me to send me in a complete mental spiral. But hey, yeah, it was a good game Yeah, you even came here. Yeah. Yeah, see since makes the heart grow fonder, right? I know I've been such a bad survivor personality Would you vote out she and if you were on a season with her? Shockingly, it would depend on how she was Yeah, if she sat there and was like Jenna, you can't play that way. You have to do it this way. You have to out woman. But if she was willing to work with me,

I would definitely, I would be open to any strategies that might make me win. Including She-An. Oh, I hate that I said that. Is there any survivor that you would not come back if they were in the mix? Nah, no, I have not. Like She-An's probably the one I have the hardest feelings for, and I would not

blink an eye if she was out there. Have you stayed in touch with Rupert? Not really. He stayed in my house in L.A. a bunch when he came out, and then no, we just haven't. Did you go out to Indiana to stump for him when he was running for governor? I did not. Can you imagine? Like we did Survivor together and I watched him completely lose his crap over like he wanted to kill Johnny Fairplay and he wanted to chop this guy's head off. I think he'd make a great governor.

You didn't watch Blood vs. War and he said you didn't watch because of Jervis but not even when Rupert and his wife both came back? No, they both came back. Did you know that Rupert's wife played Survivor? No. Yeah That's funny with Jervis with Jervis. Yeah, and Tina Weston was on that season also. Tina Weston was on again. Yeah She went far. She's a good. Did she see that's why I voted her out I think I voted her off because I think that she's very likable and she's a strategist That's why I wanted her out day one. I didn't want to give her time.

Yeah, she did good. See, she's very good. So I was smart in voting her out. It wasn't because I didn't dislike her. It wasn't because I disliked her. Sorry, it was double negative. It wasn't because I disliked Tina. Yeah, it was actually because I thought that she would be a huge threat down the line.

So you didn't look at heroes versus villains at all with Boston Robb was back and Jerry and Rupert Colby played again? I'm seriously think I don't even know that this stuff happened. I was pregnant or something. I was like, there's a lot of pregnancies in the last five years. I probably still have so much emotion over it, too. Now I can sit back and be like, no, I'm I'm finally watching Survivor again. It feels good to see everything. But I think five years ago, I still felt raw.

I didn't want to talk to these people. I didn't want to be a part of the whole Survivor mentality. I was kind of laying low. You said before that your husband got an email from somebody. Somebody contacted your husband. They were excited that you were going to be on the podcast. Yeah. My husband was like, oh, OK, you're going up to L.A. to do something and then go see your girlfriend.

That's fine. Blah, blah, blah. This morning, he's like some random guy texts me on Facebook to be his friend. And he's friends with his friends. And he's like, I didn't know until I looked through your photos that Jenna Lewis is your wife. I'm so excited to hear her on. Rob has a podcast this morning. And he was like looking at me because my husband thinks I'm a nobody. Like, who's Rob? Yeah, he's like, who's Rob?

He has no idea. He doesn't listen to me anyway, but he certainly doesn't listen when I bring up anything about survivor or my past. He just like looks at me and goes like this. Yeah. But he was shocked to know that people actually still think of me. What about blood versus water? Would you play with your husband? Yes, I would.

Would he be good? No, he'd be terrible. I told him if we ever played something like that, I'm sorry, honey, but first chance I get him voting you out. You're just dead weight. He's he's adorable. He's super sweet, but he's too genuine. He's competitive. He'd be physical, but he would just not know how to play that game. Is there anything else that you feel like we didn't cover?

We talked about Borneo, we've talked about the All-Stars, talked about Cambodia. No, I think we got it all. I think I think the Varner is going to go far this year. Is he your pick? Can you see him as a winner? No, I don't see him as a winner because he'll. Why? What's his downfall? He'll ultimately come across as scheming.

He won't be able to help it. He'll get he's holding it in now, putting on a good persona, which will get him far. But he will ultimately break down to the snarky Jeff that I know and love. And I do I love him, but it will come out. Your two colors come out. So I think that he will ultimately be seen like I became too talkative. Go figure people like Oh God, she's so annoying. Yeah, it's my downfall. I'm annoying. Um, so I am. Um, he will become that Kelly. I don't think that she gets too muchfall. I'm annoying. So I am. He will become that. Kelly, I don't think that she gets too much further.

I think people will get tired of that introverted nature, especially seeing how Survivor has matured in how that it casts and how it plays out. I do like Kelly and Tasha. I like those two. And Kimmy? No, she's gone. She's, I mean, it was all about Abby being annoying last night, but believe me I promise you and I'll be back on the show and drive the four hours back up here

The day that Kimmy becomes like she's just gonna go off if Kimmy wins. No Kimmy's gonna get voted off She's gonna have like you're gonna come back up here when Kimmy gets yes Because I'm gonna be like I told you she just can't it in. And then you just Skype in with that big mouth. It's just everything's got to come out. Yes. And this is coming from someone who talks a lot. But Kimmy just, wow. She looks like a treasure cat. Yes, just a big smile. Yes.

All right. There's so many so many other things that we could touch on. But I know you I know you have to eventually get back home today. But thank you so much for coming in here. Thank you for having me. I hope that people really enjoy this. It was fascinating for indulging me. I still vividly remember when, you know, one of the first,

it might have been the first time that I met you. I don't think you came out to any of the finale stuff on the Amazon. And I remember going to one of these charity events and meeting you and talking with you. And then I remember it was you and Amber and you guys were there. And I was talking about how I could name all of the survivors. I desperately wanted to impress you.

And you guys had this horrified look on your face. I was so humiliated. I don't remember that. Yes. And it was a terrible, terrible experience. My favorite is the two Rob's, two Jenna's pictures. My favorite. Yes. Yes. That's a great classic, classic story.

I think we posted that on Facebook. Rob, can you just set that up for people that I talked about when we went back and did our review of a chapter when I rewatched All Stars, I talked about that, but just tell us, well, we went to a charity event

and we were all pretty good friends and Boston Rob, Amber and I, Pre All Stars. Pre All Stars. Or post All Stars. No, it was pre All Stars. It was pre All Stars. Yeah, because nobody was good friends after All Stars.

Nobody was good friends after, we didn't hang out. That's what I'm talking about, those feelings. But Amber, Rob, Rob and I were standing there and someone took a picture and Rob says, oh, two Robs and two Genas. No, Amber said it, I think. I think you did. No, Amber, that's why it was so funny. It was like, your name's not even Jenna.

Oh, see, I immediately put it on you. I thought for sure you said, look, two Rob's, two Jenna's. And then you went, oh, oh, but I think you're right. Yeah, it was Amber that said it. And it was like, wait, you're not even Jenna. See, she thinks she's cool enough to be. It'd be one thing if you said it. Right.

And it was like, oh wait, that's not Jenna, it's Amber. Oh, that's not another Jenna, because there's Jenna Maraska at that point. It was Amber that said it. That makes a lot more sense why it was funnier. It just became funnier. All right, generalists, I always put a hashtag in these podcasts. Give us, if people wanna let us know,

let you and I know, SSJenna13 on Twitter, use the hashtag on Twitter. Something that we talked about here. What's your hashtag? Team Jenna. Team Jenna. Yeah. Okay. We're rooting for another one. Another one. All right. Thank you so much for coming in and great to see you. Good to see you, Rob. You're doing great. This place is awesome. I like

what you've done with it. Thank you very much. The biggest show of the summer is back! Love Island USA Season 7 premieres June 3rd and we will be breaking it all down all season long. Join Kirsten and Scali for the challenges, recoupling and drama. Get the same great Love Island coverage on the brand new We Know Love Island podcast feed.