RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Flashbacks: Ozzy Lusth on the Survivor 40 Episode 12 Recap

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

This week, we're flashing back to the Survivor Winners at War episode 12 recap that featured Ozzy Lusth!

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisterino back with you once again for the Survivor 50 Flashback. And this time we are going back to listen to an interview that I did with Ozzy during Survivor Winners at War. I had long wanted to do a longer interview with Ozzy. One of the things I really love to do on Rapid Potgast, I love to like sit down with a great of reality TV and get to have kind of like an extemporaneous conversation and from what I recall I don't think we really

even got too much into like breaking down this specific episode as opposed to I really just wanted the opportunity to talk to Ozzy because I thought he would be a great interview and I really thought that he was at a different viewpoint of Ozzy after that I had met up with Ozzy in person a couple of times before that, but I met him at the Survivor 40. We did a 10 year anniversary party for Rob's podcast. There was like probably 50 Survivor alumni there. Ozzy was there and I had said to him, like, hey, Ozzy,

I would love to interview you sometime. I would love to get the chance to talk to you. And I had said to him, like, I would love to get the chance to talk to you. And I had said to him, like, I'd love if we could just follow up and do this interview. And he's like, oh, like, well, just, you know, actually, you text me. He's like, because I got a lot of phone numbers tonight. I was like, Ozzy, look at you. Look at you. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, not like that.

Not like that. But I don't know. Maybe it was like that. Who knows? Anyway, great interview with Ozzy for you to listen to. This is from April 3rd, 430, not 420. It's from 43020. It's from 4, like month 4, year 20. 43020 here with Ozzy. All right, I'm very excited to bring in our guest here today to talk about everything. I said in the open that I've really been looking forward to this.

I've been trying to track this guy down for years to talk about everything that's going on in Survivor because he's seen it all. He's played with so many of these players. Here he is, the great four-time Survivor. Ozzy, Ozzy, how are you? I am awesome. I'm really, really excited to be here. Yeah. I'm, like you said, I'm a little bit hard to track down. And I think it was at your event that, and I got to sit at the round table or whatever, with other people. And I had a couple of drinks in me, but I had a lot of fun.

So based off of that, I've always kind of like been a little wary of this type of thing, but you know, you are an authority on Survivor. And this season, I don't know if I'm biased because like you said, I played with a lot of these players, but I think this is one of the best seasons of Survivor that I've ever seen or played it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, I'm really glad that we were able to work this out. And I've really been looking forward to talking to you because I feel like, and you know, I tried to tell

you this, that it meant a lot to me that you came out to the 10 year anniversary show, but I feel like that people don't really know you particularly well. And I feel you don't do a lot of interviews that are like this. So I'm really glad that we have this chance to talk about everything that's going on. Yeah, I'm excited as well. And you're exactly right. You know, just you probably know as well as I do that the interviews that you do, they're usually after you exit Survivor. And then you get on the phone or you're in a room or whatever. And you talk to reporters from you know, all over the place. And they kind of ask you the same questions over and

over again. And you know, you just, it's a little bit, you know, it's tough. So I feel like this is a really cool opportunity because you know, you play the game, you've talked to probably every single survivor that has ever played, you know, this game so well. And it's, you know, this, this season's actually really kind of like rekindled or reignited my love for Survivor. I've always loved it. But some seasons are like hit or miss. This season, I think, is just phenomenal. So I'm all in. What is it that you're seeing right now that is making you so excited about season 40?

I just think that what I love so much about season 40 is, you know, it's been building upon the shoulders of all past seasons and you're seeing, yeah, there's like old gameplay, there's new gameplay, this is like old school versus new school. You've got like people that have never played with twists, you've got people that have played with twists, and just seeing how the adaptability and how people have to change their gameplay in order to get further in the game. So it's just kind of like the evolution, seeing the evolution of Survivor from first season with Hatch all the way through and just seeing how, for one, how they've been able to keep

it fresh, I think is really exciting. I think that some people kind of, myself included, look at, it's been 40 seasons, how much longer can Survivor go before it starts to feel tired? And I think that this season's kind of proven that, you know, the producers and Jeff and everybody involved, they're really, they're really working hard to bring us like Survivor, but constantly refreshed so that people are to stay interested in and even like people like you and I stay interested in wanting to see like, where is it going to go from here?

So Ozzy, I don't really know this about you. How did you first get involved with Survivor when you ended up on your first season back in Cook Islands? Were you somewhere and they found you or was it something that you were interested in being a part of? It's a, it's kind of a weird story because when I think it was 1999, right? That Fiber, Survivor first came on. Yeah, 2000. It's gonna be the 20-year anniversary next month. Right. So 2000. So I remember I had just graduated high school.

Yeah. And Survivor came on. I was probably home from college and I was at a friend's house and I remember seeing like hearing about it. Back in in the day when internet wasn't as what it is and you had to watch TV on the television and there wasn't even TiVo. If you didn't watch Survivor, you missed it. You couldn't go back and watch episodes. I remember not really knowing about it, hearing a little bit about it and seeing one of the final, one of the last challenges or one of the last episodes with Hatch and just saying like, Oh my God, this show is amazing. Like I want to be on it. This is

incredible. And then come to realize that you have to be 21 to be on it. It's just kind of like, I was like, Oh, well, screw that. I've never, you know, I'm, you know, maybe in three years or whatever, I'll be able to try out. And I just kind of forgot about it. And I moved to, I went to film school in Santa Barbara and I moved to Los Angeles. And within six months of being in Los Angeles, I had a roommate at the time that's very similar to me, Mexican surfer, skateboarder. We had this like... We were kind of like cousins. We used to tell each other... Tell our friends we were cousins.

He got approached by Eric Ashae. Yeah. And this was the season 13 where they were doing the split everybody up by races. Right. So they were, they were specifically, you know, I know the casting process I'm sure is convoluted and depending on what, how they're going to do it, they're looking for certain types of people, you know, you know know they want to have like a broad range of characters this season in particular they really wanted specific types of

people so they were going out looking for you know African-American white Asian or Latino backgrounds so they needed somebody who was like me, like a, you know, young Latino that kind of was like anti stereotypical. And so Eric Asche, my roommate, he was, he decided not to do it. He's an actor type of guy and didn't want to. So I just got super lucky. He was like, Yo, I met this casting agent at dinner. Do you want to be on Survivor? And I was like, Are you kidding me? It was full on fell in my lap one day because he decided to go out to dinner and Erica Shay picked him out of the crowd and asked him about it. The only thing was, I had to make a video within, It was like 12 hours because they were right

at the deadline. They had to make decisions and fly people out for interviews. So I just shot in the dark and put together a video. I sent it in. I got a call. I got the go. And I went to the interviews. And then it was literally within a month flying out to the Cook Islands to go be on my first season of Survivor. So it was really just dumb luck. It was dumb luck. So I tried to do some research this afternoon. I've gone back and there's some great Best of Ozzie stuff on YouTube and I was watching, you know, some different things from your seasons. And you know, I was just kind of struck by, you know, from like, everybody knows about the challenges, but I feel like that you have an interesting take on the game where that

for you, I feel like that there's some people that really are able to separate, hey, it's a game, it's a game move. And I feel like that you look at like trails in the game as more than just a move that you made to get over on somebody. Is that a fair assessment to say? Yeah, I think that that that's a very fair assessment. I think that my my naive K has shown itself, especially as I've gotten older and I've sort of seen the way that the game has progressed. I think that I got so close on my first season, sort of playing in a way that was not duplicitous, that was straight

up that I got to within one vote. You know, I almost, in my opinion, if I had done a couple things differently, I could have played basically a perfect game of Survivor, where you can go to the end with a group of people, not screw anybody over, and really show that that's how you can play and win a game of Survivor. Now, the chances of being able to do that are so incredibly slim. The chances of winning Survivor are small. But the chances of being able to play a game like that where you're not screwing anybody over and you're honest to whatever extent you can.

I think that that was me being naive because of the way that my first season unrolled. And then I went into other seasons sort of thinking that, okay, I can kind of play the same way and I'm going to try and do what I can. So that was my, I think my, my sort of fallback strategy was to just try and, you know, win at challenges and be straight up and honest with people. And I think that at the end of the day, you've got to be able to adapt. And if you can't, if you're stuck in any one mindset or mind, if you're stuck in any mindset, you're not adaptable

and you're going to get broken by the game. And I think that happened to me a couple of, you know, I trusted, you know, I went from being like, I'm going to be an honest person and trust people and then, you know, got screwed over by, you know, lots of people. And then trying to play sort of, you know, the other way and not being very good at it is sort of like led to my downfall as well. So, you know, I still think that there's a way to do to play survival where you're not just lying to every single person. I haven't really found that that strategy to work for me yet. But you know, who knows, maybe I'll be able to go back and try again. And so in one of the videos I was watching, they were showing you from the final tribal

council in Micronesia. And you were saying that you were really betrayed by poverty because that it felt like to you that when she went behind your back, that it was like she was saying to you that the friendship that you had with her, it's just, it's, oh, so you're saying to me that you're not worth this amount of money, that the bond that we have together. And I just thought that that was an interesting way of phrasing that because I hadn't really heard it that way. And I wanted to just bring that up in the context of that we see a lot of relationships that are strained right now in the game, like Tony and Sarah, where coming into this episode that Tony went behind Sarah's back and Sarah had to really, you know, come back with Tony and sort of, you know, decide, you know, how was she going to

handle that moving forward? And that was a major betrayal that Tony had done to her where he knocked Sophie out of the game, who was working with Sarah. And they have this real world relationship and she had to choose to get over it in that moment, but said, hey, if I go out of the game, this is over. I'm never talking to you again. And Tony seemed a little shocked by that.

Yeah. And I think that Sarah is smart enough to know that she has emotions and she, you know, I'm sure she got incredibly upset because yeah, Sophie was a big source of, of safety in the game. Having somebody that you feel like you can work with and that, that, you know, that you can trust and whatnot, you know, besides the like the relationship that Sarah and Tony have by Sarah having Sophie, it's an extra added safety net. So I think Sarah is also smart enough to know that she probably doesn't completely mean what she says, but it's a way to keep Tony in line. It's a way to keep Tony's from maybe going completely off the

deep end and totally throwing away any of the trust that they've built up. Because look, if they've been friends with each other for however many years, and that's a really important part of, that's a really important part of, you know, that's a really important relationship. If Sarah is just like, hey, Tony, whatever you want to do, you know, he's going to walk all over her. There's got to be some like ramifications. There's got to be some sort of blowback for Tony just committing, doing whatever he wants to do. And if Tony is willing to throw really willing to throw away the relationship that he has a Sarah for $2 million, I don't think many people can blame him. I certainly

can at this point. Yeah. Let's be honest, we all kind of come around at the end of the day and say, you know what, to win $2 million, would I lie to my friend? Yeah, we probably would if if it's in the context of a game, this is part of part and parcel of Survivor. It doesn't say anywhere in the rules that you can't lie to people. You know what you're getting yourself into. So I think that Sarah has to do what she can to kind of like hold a stick up to Tony and say, look, Tony, if you do this kind of thing, like we're not going to be friends ever inside of the game, outside of the game, whether she means it or not, probably not. but what else is she gonna do?

She's gotta say something, you know? As somebody who's played this game over a long period of time, how old were you the first time that you played? Man, I think I was 24. 24, and then the last time you went, you were, what, 35? I was 36.

36, 36. Do you feel like that type of betrayal, do you think is that easier for a person who's younger or a person who's had more life experience? I don't necessarily think it matters if you're young or old. I think it just matters your viewpoint of how to play a survivor. And.

You know, I don't, I think that some people completely just know that it's a game. And as soon as they're, you know, Jeff reads out their name and they're, they have to bring their torch up, they're just kind of like, all right, great job guys, and they're a good sport about it. I think I've, you know, for me personally, I've always, I've always taken my relationships in Survivor personally. Yeah. I haven't done a very good job separating. And that's, I think one of my weakest points of when I, when I played Survivor is not, you know, not realizing that, you know, at the end of the day, it's just a game. So we have to, you're gonna play hard

and you're gonna play rough, but you gotta just separate it when it's all said and done. Yeah. And look, I think that that's part of the beauty of the game is that there are people who look at it, no, this is just a game. And like Richard Hatch from that very first season was one like, oh, if I'm playing Monopoly

and I knock you out of the game, it's, you know, I didn't mean anything by it. It's just that's what happens in the game. Whereas there are other people like yourself who come at it from a completely different viewpoint and it doesn't make one more valid than the other. Yeah, exactly. At the end of the day, it's just this about art.

Is your strategy gonna get you to the place that you want it to? And it's just about, is your strategy going to get you to the place that you want it to? And is it going to let you win the game? So, you can play from a spot of being completely duplicitous, lying to every single person. Are you going to win the game? Maybe, maybe not. It just depends on how you tell those lies. It depends on who you tell those lies to. Depends on a lot of different factors. So I do still think that there is room in Survivor for playing, you know, a little more honorably.

Yeah. For whatever that means. I don't think it's the right strategy for a lot of people. I think it's a really difficult strategy. And I think I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anybody. You know, I think that you're setting yourself up for, you know, pain and suffering. So I think that, you know, just speaking to like, when to tell the truth and when not to tell the truth and survivor, I think that there's always, there's always room for the truth. And I think that, you

know, the final tribal council is one place where you should always be for the truth. And I think that the final tribal council is one place where you should always be telling the truth. I think I've seen in my four seasons, I've seen at least two circumstances where somebody lost the game because they decided to continue lying and coach. I think that that was a great example. Specifically in my final tribal council question, I gave him a softball.

And I said, Coach, look, if you continue lying, people aren't going to vote for you. Just admit that you lied to everybody, that you used Christianity or use your faith as a bargaining chip. And if you do that, you've got a bunch of people here that are willing to vote for you. But if you continue the lie, then you know, you don't have it. You don't have any. And he continued the lie and he didn't win. Sophie won. And Sophie played a pretty good game, but I think that it was coach's game to lose. That's why Sophie won that game.

I'm dying to know who the coach was the easy one. I'm dying to know who the other one is. Fans versus favorites, Amanda. Amanda. Yeah. So I don't know, you know, unless Amanda is lying to me, something that... I talked about this in a Zoom call with... For Eliza Singh the other night. Yeah. Last night. The fundraiser for Eliza for Manhattan DA. Sure. Exactly. Which everybody should support her because she's amazing. But there was something

that I found out and I didn't find out till many years later. of course, Amanda and I had a show manse and I made a big like, sort of statement in final tribal saying I was like falling in love with her and all these things. A few years later, you know, Amanda's and I's relationship, it didn't go anywhere after the game, we ended up breaking up and whatnot. But a few years after that, she confessed to me that it was actually her plan. It was her mastermind plan to vote me out. That she got Harvey and Sarie on board and that it was her idea to vote me out. Now, I don't know if people would have changed their vote, but I think that if she was had been honest about that, yeah, in final tribal council and said, Look, babe, I understand

you have feelings for me. But you know what, this was a game and it was my plan to vote you out. I think that that would have been a huge, a huge sort of enlightenment, a huge moment of enlightenment for a lot of the jury, and they maybe would have said, hey, Amanda's actually a better game player than people realize. She also has a problem with public speaking, so she kind of messed up just because of that. Now, do you 100% believe that?

Because I feel like that that is like a major piece of survivor history that would be changed if that was the case. I do believe it. I think that it was Amanda's idea and I think Parvati ran with it. I think Parvati said, hey, I'll be the bad guy. I'll be the one so that you can save face with Ozzy. I do believe that. And I think that, you know, I've never asked, I always, whenever I see Parvati, I forget to ask her, but we should ask her because that would be really interesting. If I get the chance to talk to Parvati or Suri anytime soon, I will see if they have

their take on it. And they could do like a whole oral history of that. This episode of Rob has a podcast is sponsored by Better Health. Summer is upon us, and while temperatures are on the rise, so is workplace stress. Though meditation and a healthy dose of vitamin D are always welcome for your mental health, so is therapy. And with over 30,000 therapists, Better Health is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. As someone who has struggled for years with anxiety and depression, I'm very grateful for platforms like BetterHelp, which allow you to connect with a therapist at your convenience

on your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash RHAP. That's BetterHelp.com slash RHAP. On July 18th, it's the Blue Crew to the rescue. It's smurfing time. Hefty. Can you even lift, bro?

Grouchy. I hate the radio. Quiet. There's something important to tell you. I have no idea what he just said. And smurf-ed. That's how it's done, boys. Smurf.

Only in theaters July 18th. Well, let's actually, since we're on you getting voted out in Surviv survivor Micronesia, that I was amazed that when I'm sure that this was not fun for you to see the challenge that came back because that was the challenge that ultimately you took the donuts and had to get the step down from the challenge to set up them being able to vote you out

the same exact challenge that they did last night. Yeah, that challenge sucks. That is the worst challenge ever. You know, it seems like such an easy thing, just doing that. But it's like, it's so much more difficult. But they didn't make it much more difficult, it's, it's so much more difficult, but they didn't even much more difficult. It sounds like. Yeah, yeah, they did. I mean, I already won that challenge and they played, I think they went for over an hour. So you know, I, I was feeling, I was feeling really bad for Kim. Yeah. Because soon as soon as she saw the peanut butter

and she dropped, you know, I was like, Oh man, it's gonna be her going home tonight, isn't it? Yeah. It's one of those things. It's like it's crazy how your mind in that moment, you know, it's been a month, you haven't been eating, how your mind tricks you into thinking like, Oh, you're gonna be safe. Just like you need more energy, like just drop, you're going to be safe. Just like, you need more energy, like just drop, you're going to be fine. Turns out, you know, that was probably a million dollar mistake for her.

Yeah. Or two million dollars. But Ozzy, I think they've made the challenge so hard that to me it was like, Kim and Michelle, like we're about to give out and we're holding on like a couple more seconds just to get the food. Do you do you feel like that maybe because well because it's so much harder than Denise could have you know also collapsed in any second. And so it's the same thing because I feel like that when you guys went through it it's like you could have been up

there for three more hours. So it's like it really is a temptation. Yeah. But I think that that's exactly why you don't, you should never get tempted because you know, that's what it's there for. It's like, you get a really small like it's an instant gratification, but the long term gain is just so much better. So, you know, I think that it was, it was a, it was a shame on Nick's part. It was a shame on Michelle and Kim's part. And yeah, maybe they were about to fall off. So like, might as well get a little bit of peanut butter. But I don't believe that. I think that they could have, they really could have like put in some more time. And that's what happens. You get an opportunity like

that. Denise and Tony, they had a great opportunity. And they capitalized. I'm so surprised. I mean, Tony doesn't... He isn't the kind of... I wouldn't consider him to be very good at balancing. I wouldn't consider him... He's a strong guy. But I wouldn't necessarily consider him to be that good at these individual immunity challenges. And yet yet there you go, three back to back wins. So who knows? Maybe Tony is running away with it. We'll see. Yeah. It's gotten into Tony where he's not somebody who's won a lot of immunity challenges

in the past, but now here he is with three in a row. Can you get hot, Ozzy? Like, can you sort of like, once you win one, do you sort of like, is it a confidence thing? I think that confidence has a lot to do with it. The individual immunity challenges, yeah, you sometimes have momentum going into them. And sometimes when you have that momentum, even if there's something happening mentally to your other competitors, if they just think that you're going to win, if they just think that you're going to win, you know, sometimes that might be the difference between you winning or not.

You know, an example I'll have for you right now is when I was on Redemption Island, playing against Brandon Hans, the fucking worst, maybe the worst survivor challenge, if not the second worst, hanging on that pole. Brandon was so close to beating me. He was so close to beating me. But I think that there was something in his mind that told him, Ozzy's not going to give up. So he was battling his own mind. He didn't, he wasn't necessarily battling me. He was battling his own mind. And I think his own mind beat him. Because I like literally after he fell, like my legs were completely numb. It was only by the grace of God that I was still up there. So, you know, it's just a, it's

just a small example of, you know, your mental state has a lot to do with how far you can go in this game. So, yeah. Now, why do you say that that is the worst challenge hanging on to the pole net? Because you have you have won it twice. Is it the actual pain from the challenge or does it have to do with game changers? Oh, it has to do with game changers. It's like for me, it's like I thought I was so good and I was like, oh, there's no way. And of course, maybe one of the only people that could beat me and all of the

survivor players was Ty. I mean, Ty is like so incredibly strong and just, you know, he had it. Yeah. Let me just set this up why I wanted to talk about this because in Survivor Game Changers, ultimately when they come to Blindside U, it seems like that maybe that people were not necessarily thinking about you. It's you and Ty up on those beams for what, an hour and a half or something like that. Like a long time. And it's everybody's just standing there watching. There's a lot of talk about how you have done this, won this challenge twice before. And then that's where it seems like that from in the episode that Debbie and people start talking about oh we got to get out Ozzy now because of how well

he's doing in the in the challenge and then that started to really get the ball rolling to to get you out and I was thinking about this because as I was watching that clip also and I saw saw Tyson, who, like yourself, has been somebody who's done great at this challenge before. And I haven't asked him about this because I don't want to like, you know, while the show is still going on, I don't like to know too much about what's going on. But I wonder, I said this at the time, do you think that Tyson might have thrown the challenge where somebody who's won this challenge before now it was Rainey also out there and I don't know how that much changes things up and time has gone by since he played in his first season and won that

challenge. Like do you think that maybe people have said, hey, I'm not going to go out and show how long I can stay up there and let people sit there and watch me compete in this challenge? Yeah, but was that the challenge that he got voted out? He didn't get voted out that one. I think it was, but it was his first one where he came back after being back from the edge. Right, right. You know, I think for people like Tyson or myself, not playing to your

to your fullest of your abilities and a challenge like especially like that where you have the potential to win, it can be a mistake as well. It's just so hard to know. I, you know, in hindsight, looking back, if I had fallen off the, the, the pole like immediately and just like tried to play more undercover and been a little smarter about my relationships, maybe I could have made it a little further at least gotten to the next boat. I don't know. I think that my time was pretty much up as soon as I was going to lose an individual immunity challenge in Game Changers. I think that I was pretty much done. My biggest problem in that season was I didn't do enough scrambling after that. After that, we came back from that challenge. I listened to my alliance, I thought we were good. And I didn't

I didn't do enough scrambling. I didn't find an immunity. I don't have any advantage just but I didn't really try to like, I didn't really, I just didn't think I was going home until you know, we were sitting at tribal. And I started getting that feeling and I was like, well, at this point, I just knew I was I was done. So, you know, I think that I think you should always try your hardest in the challenges. I think that there might be opportunities in some of these individual challenges. If you have like a couple advantages in your pocket or you have like a strong alliance or you have an ability to like, you know, make it further without in without having individual immunity, you might want

to do it. But it's the most powerful thing in the game. So if you can get it, I think you should get it. And it's given Tony a really, really strong advantage. I think we've seen he's been kind of like skirting on the chopping block, but no one can touch him now. And he's like driving the game. Tony's driving the game because he's has, he's got, he knows that Ben's got an idol. He's got his own idol. He's got individual immunity. Yeah. Like it doesn't look like there's any, it doesn't look like there's any stopping him, but it also looks really dangerous to be in his position because he's because he's just like unfolded this giant

target and everybody knows like, how are you going to beat Tony? You go to the end, if anyone goes to the end with Tony, he's going to win. You have to assume that they all think that. I don't think that there's anyone, maybe somebody like Natalie coming back from the edge. Maybe Natalie coming back from the edge being like the first out. She might be it. And she's a good talker. She might be able to dissuade people. She might be able to get some votes. But I just don't see it. I think that Nick and Nick and Sarah and I mean, pretty much everybody, everybody that Tony should be public enemy number one at this point yeah and you know who knows what they're

feeling like being in the game maybe they're not able to see it maybe they think their games maybe Ben thinks his game is like just as good as Tony's yeah there things her game is just as good as Tony's but like from from our standpoint from a player or even even from the people just watching, looks like Tony is playing the best game of anybody so far. Yeah, I think they know, I mean, that there was a lot of people on board for,

hey, let's vote out Tony, and things then definitely had to change once he won the immunity necklace in the challenge. So I think that people were definitely on board with, okay, Tony's time is up, but what they didn't know, or so many of them didn't know, was that he also has an idol on top of that. So they could have tried to vote him out,

and it would have been the same thing where he would have been able to play his idol. I wanna stick with Tyson here for a second, because I'm wondering if you think that Tyson might be able to do what you did in Survivor South Pacific where could he potentially return from the edge of extinction again and come back two times in the same game like you did once upon a time? For sure.

I think that Boston Robb, Tyson, maybe Natalie. I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I think Natalie's really strong and really good, but I think there's something about, you know, Tyson has proven his ability to do it. He's got, he's got, he's got great balance. He's got the pressure under, under, he's got poise under pressure. He's sort of my number one out of all the contenders that are on edge that may go to edge. I think Tyson is my favorite to come back in the game. Yeah. And I do think that Tyson, if he's able to come back in the game for a second time, depending

on how he plays, I think that maybe he could stand up to Tony, maybe, but still, it'd be hard for me to vote against... It'd be hard for me to vote again, not vote for Tony in that situation. I don't know who... Yeah, I don't know. But Tyson's also... I mean, he's incredibly funny and warm. He has a gift of gab.

I mean, you never know when it comes to a final tribal. If you had Tony and say you had Tony and Tyson, and if we're doing a final three, maybe Tony Tyson and someone like Nick, who I think is just kind of like, not really, he's not really made any big moves. He's just kind of like there, right? So it would be, I think it would be against Tony and Tyson. It would be really interesting. I think I'd like to see that, but I would have a hard time still because Tony's just,

he's been outplaying people. Yeah. In South Pacific that, you know, that people say that you would have won if you would have gotten to the end because there were more people from Savi that were on the jury and you wouldn't, you would have gotten all those votes. Did you give yourself ever a time to think about what you would have said at the final tribal council where if people came in saying like, Ozzy, why should we vote for you? You got voted out twice in this game as opposed to these people who didn't get voted out in this

game. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I had my whole speech ready to go. I was like, I was like, all right, all we got to do is win this one challenge. That's it. And that fucked me. I mean, I was so, I mind fucked myself. I got so in my head, like, I was like, oh shit, you can win the game. Like, you did it. You got to the point you wanted to get. You like, you did it.

All you gotta do is this simple challenge. You're good at this, you can do it. And it's just like, my mind went completely blank. Like, I just couldn't, I couldn't like even like make sense of anything. So yeah, I thought about, I thought about exactly what I was going to say. And you know, I think that I, I had a really strong track record. I got myself voted out the first time to help my tribe to get back in the game. So that in and of itself, You told them vote you out so you can go,

it was your idea. Yeah, not only that, but I gave Cochran my idol. So, you know, I think that I had built up a really strong resume. I think that I was like ready to go. And I know that losing that challenge was, you know, it was heartbreaking to me because I, it was, for me, that challenge was the game.

I knew if I knew if I won, I was going to win. And I knew if I lost, I was out. So, you know, at the end of the day, it just was too much pressure for me. I put so much pressure on myself. It was like the whole history of me playing, however, 100 days or whatever it was, it just all kind of like crushed me. And I just didn't have the mental poise to make it. It's like what you were talking about with Brandon Hantz.

Yeah, it's exactly it. It's exactly it. Being able to remove your own worst enemy, which is your mind. Being able to separate your mind from what you need to do to make it in the game. I think it's a lesson for a lot of people. People always ask me what it takes to be a sole survivor, what it takes to do well in survivor. And I think a huge part of that is knowing

that your mind is your own worst enemy. Yeah. Your emotions in your mind. And if you can separate those, if you can feel, you know, someone is being an asshole or being rude or being whatever, if you can separate your emotions and you can separate your like, your what you want to just say in that moment, think about it and just come at it with a little more clinical sort of, I want to say like a Buddhist mentality. You've got a huge advantage. But the problem is, is most of us, we don't operate that way. We do, we live, you know, we think our thoughts

are who we are. We think our emotions are who we are. So, you know, that's just something that... One of my biggest takeaways from this game is just how to work on being more present moment, being more aware of those things and trying to just give yourself an opportunity to sort of see the emotions come up and go away. Was that something that you tried to work on before you went back for Game Changers? It was something I tried to work on. I really tried to work on just being more present, being more in the moment with people. I don't think I did a very good job on Game Changers. I got into like, I trusted people I shouldn't have and I didn't trust people I should have. And, you know, I don't, I don't really know if I'm that good at reading people. I don't

think that I like listen to my gut when I should. I think that I, you know, I think I'm still really bad at my listening to my emotions and not my gut. I don't know. It's hard to separate. What's the difference between listening to your emotions and your gut? Well, because I think your emotions maybe are a little more superfluous and superficial. I think your gut is just kind of like this other feeling, you know, like I, my gut told me in fans versus favorites that I should take my hidden immunity idol. Yeah.

But my heart and my brain were telling me like, no, Amanda and Parvati, like we're locked in, we're solid. I don't even want people looking through my bag. I'm going to leave the idol here. And sure enough, like my gut told me, but I didn't listen to it. I was listening to some other like voices in my head. If you had it, would you have played it? I would have.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I started getting that queasy feeling and I was like, oh man, this is not good. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I started getting that queasy feeling and I was like, Oh man, this is, this is not good. Yeah. You know, you know, it's funny because I don't think Jeff does this on purpose. And I don't think that, you know, I don't think he knows who people are voting for, but I think that he's agile enough that he senses how people are acting and reacting that he asked enough questions and he asks in a way and

you can start to discern like how people are going to vote even though you try to say, you know, if you're trying to blindside somebody, you're going to say things as politically as possible. You still got to start getting that sense of dread. When you say that, if you can try to, you know, listening to your gut and being more mindful that what is the way that you can actually improve that skillset? God, that's a great question. I could use it, Ozzy.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. That's like a $2 million question at this point. I don't know. That's like, that's like a $2 million question at this point. Yeah. I don't know how you develop that. I think that, you know, your intuition is something that that you can work on. But God knows how to do that. I don't know. That's something that, you know, maybe I need to develop an exercise for that. I don't know. I don't know. And I could, I could use that for that. I don't know. I don't know. I could use that for sure. When we're talking about South Pacific and how close you were, I always thought that

Cook Islands was probably the one that you look back at and say, okay, that's the one that I should have had. Do you feel like that South Pacific was actually that one? That that was really the season that was yours for the taking more so? For sure. 100%. South Pacific was my game to lose. I knew what I had to do and I just couldn't execute. And I think that if my younger self, if myself from Cook Islands was playing that game, hands down, it would have been over. But I think that, like I said, all of those experiences leading up to that, all of the 38 days that I played, all of the duels that I had to win, everything just kind of like, I had a short circuit in my mind, you know, and that was definitely like, that was the, if I could have won that game,

that would have also been like my sort of perfect game. Yeah, you know, it didn't have to lie to anybody. I didn't have to like, backstab anybody. I tried to, I tried to use my idol, I tried everything in my in my wheelhouse to make it further in the game. And I just got so close. I got so close to it. So. Can you talk about the Edge of Extinction and how you feel about what they've done with

the Edge of Extinction? Because obviously it's a polarizing twist. Redemption Island was polarizing, but I feel like that the Edge of Extinction even more polarizing with a lot of the fans. Yeah, I can understand how, you know, being, having an advantage of being able to basically stay in the game till the very end and potentially come back and win. I hate to say it, but watching, what was the last one that was also called edge of extinction? Edge of extinction. Yeah. It was season 38. And then there was one in the middle that we don't talk about as much.

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I really liked Rick Devons. I was really rooting for him to kind of win and, you know, having somebody come back from the edge and win the whole game when they hadn't really been in the game. Left a bittersweet taste in my mouth because I was like, oh man, I wanna do that. That's how I would do it. But I can understand from a fan's point of view, it's almost like they took, I won't wanna say easy way out, but they just sort of took this,

kind of like a shortcut in a way. So I don't know. I do feel like, well, to be able to go to edge and then women yourself back into the game and then to be able to convince the jury again, like, you know, if you're up against people that can't convince a jury, if you've been in the game this whole time and you never got sent to edge, you didn't get voted out and then then someone comes back from edge and they're able to convince the jury, I do feel like you should win because that's just part of the game. But I think it's also different because when you're talking about players that you've never

met before and the end of extinction, it doesn't feel as good to me as this season where we have people that we know and love. They're coming back to play. And I think Jeff talked about this in the beginning, like why they're doing Edge of Extinction for season 40. And you know what goes into getting on Survivor? It takes so much time and energy, your flights, and you're getting out there. And then the gate, you know, it's months and

months of prep work. You finally get there and if you're first out, it's like a shame because we have 20 amazing characters here. I want to see like what happens with them in and outside of either in the game or on Edge of Extinction because, you know, Edge of Extinction, this, at least with the fire tokens and all of the advantage, at least they're still playing and they're still contributing to the game and they're still creating this interesting sort of back and forth. So I would be happy if somebody came back from Edge and won the game. Somebody that's not currently playing right now.

But it's only because I think that having all of these winners, I think it's great to see their whole entire arc. And you know, having to, like Natalie, having to spend, you know, 37 days if she's able to come back, if she spent 37 days on edge, you know, it's also commendable. You know, it's something that I think needs, should be rewarded. So it's commendable. That's something that I think needs to be rewarded. So it's really interesting. How different is it for in Redemption Island, in South Pacific, when you were on Redemption Island, you talked about how your strategy was people were going to come in, you were going to catch them a

fish, you were going to give them like a nice send off, and then you were going to give them like a nice send off and then you were going to beat them in the challenge and send them to the jury. But you had like an opportunity for like a one on one time with people where, hey, they're upset. I just got voted out. And you could be like, you know, talk them through it and then send them to the jury. Where as opposed to the people that are on the edge of extinction, they're all together as one group, and then have the opportunity to then vote for somebody who was part of that group at the end of the game. Do you see any differences between those two things? Oh man, yeah, and when you put it like that, it kind of, you almost have an advantage being on edge.

If you can make it, if you're one of the people that, that isn't currently in the game, you know, you, you get sent to edge and you make it right back in, you're almost at a disadvantage because everybody that's sitting, that's together on edge, they're coalescing, they're able to hang out. There's like, we'll probably less game play. I mean, who knows what they're coalescing, they're able to hang out. There's like, probably less gameplay. I mean, who knows what they're actually talking about. But I'm sure that there's like little mini alliances on hand, like people, you know, someone like Rob, I'm sure Tyson is, you know, making sure that he's trying to get people on his side, get

votes lined up. If in the event you can get back in, then all of a sudden you've got, you know, this like 15 people that you've been hanging out with for the last, you know, however long, they're maybe more on your side than somebody who is still in the game. I don't know, man. It's a, it's super really interesting because I did have an advantage. I, I, and I used that completely to my advantage. Every single person that came from the game got voted out and came to redemption. We had a great time. Pretty much, I think every single one of them I had food for. So they had something to eat and I was like, let's... Good sportsmen, best of luck to you. Whatever I could do, whatever I could say

to try and get their vote after it was all said and done, I did. And that was my strategy. So I would assume that that's exactly what's going on in the game right now. That everybody is still playing hard, that people on edge are seeing it like, all right, you still have a really strong shot.

That's one of the reasons also that I think that this is such an interesting season is there are so many factors involved. You've got the fire tokens, which we still don't know what kind of advantage that's going to get somebody. Is that going to win somebody the game? The fact that they've accumulated all these tokens? Maybe somebody from Edge is going to build up this arsenal of fire tokens and they're then going to be able to buy really amazing advances that they're going to win somebody the game in an idol. So I'm just...

I love all the moving parts. I think that Survivor has sort of like hit a new stride. I hope that they continue up with these, you know, crazy twists. I think that it's really gonna be interesting to see what happens. And I don't know, I don't know who, I had people I was rooting for

and I just, I don't know who to root for anymore. Well, there's a lot of people out there, a lot of people that you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I thought that Sophie had a great shot. I thought that Barbadie had a great shot. At this point, it does look like Tony has like a lead on everybody, but he's also put himself

into such a predicament. He's got a huge target. Everybody should be going after him. But yeah, I think somebody like Rob or Tyson, they've very, I mean, you cannot discount them because I think that they could very easily come back into the game and win. I would love to see some sort of incredible endurance challenge for the final challenge

for to get back into the game. Yeah, I think something that where they're not having to like, you don't have to be the fastest, you don't have to be the strongest, you just have to want it the most. I would love to see a challenge like that, where, you know, almost something like the, the challenge with where you put your hand on the post and you just stay there as long as you can. I'd love to see another like endurance, like 24 hour challenge. I think that would be incredible. That would be great. But you know, it's going to be an obstacle course. It's going to be

like the same thing that they always do on these because they have to build in advantages and stuff like that. So it's probably going to be more of the same. It really is. And you're right. And you know, I'm so excited for this. It's really cool to have this kind of excitement for Survivor again. So how do you feel about the Final Four fire making challenge?

That they started that the season after the last time you played in season 35. Do you like that as being a part of the game? I suspect you probably would have liked it in South Pacific. Yeah, I would have loved that. Yeah, I was trying to convince coach to go to tie to go to the fire making challenge. I was trying to do whatever I could to get a fire making challenge to happen. I do love that. I think a lot of people...

I mean, I'd be interested to hear what fans think. I like it because I think that, you know, the one skill that you should come out of Survivor with is being able to make a fire, you know, and I think that's also another, you know, I look back and cringe at myself, my 24 year old self when we put Sandra, Sundra and Becky to a fire making challenge. I was just so, I was so obviously distraught at how they couldn't make a fire for like, took them like an hour or more. Yeah. I was just blown away by that. And I let my emotions sort of get the better of me. And

I like made, I think I chastised them both and made them feel bad about themselves for not learning how to do it. And that was such a stupid young rookie move of myself. But also just highlights the fact that, you know, if you don't know how to make a challenge on day 38, you probably shouldn't win the game. So I want to ask you a little bit about Jeremy and Ben in this episode where there was definitely a disagreement that it seemed like there was just like a bad blood between them that had been just like festering for a while to the point where they're not talking to one another. Have you been so upset with anybody in the course of playing survivor

that you're in that that same headspace that Ben is in where he doesn't even want to talk to Jeremy? I've been in that headspace, but only after being voted out. Yeah. Okay. It's unusual. It's unusual that people aren't talking to each other like that on the beach. Yeah. I mean, it happened to me a few times where I haven't been included on a vote. The blind side of guy, it was on, it was on fans versus favorites. It was early in the game and Jim, Jim decided to blind, decided to take out maybe Elise or someone. I can't

remember what it was. And it like this concern, it was, it was, it bummed me out. But at the end of the day, I came back and I was like, look, all right, you guys obviously are in charge. You know what, whoever wants to play with me, I'm down. But I didn't get it. It wasn't so emotional that I would say I'm not going to, I'm not going to talk to this person. I think that Ben's making a big mistake. Honestly. I think Ben, Ben needs, Ben should be looking at Tony and Sarah and considering that they're playing a better game than him, or at least making more strategic moves, more obvious strategic moves to everybody else. And he should look at that and say, okay, you know, does he does, does going up against Tony, is it going to be or anyone else is that is it better to, is it better to have

Tony on my side? You sitting next to Tony or is it better to sit next to Jeremy? And I could make the argument that yeah, I mean, I know that Jeremy's an amazing guy. He's a firefighter. He's got a big family. But I feel like Jeremy and Ben are playing a similar game. So if I was Ben, I'd be looking at Jeremy and I'd be trying to make an alliance with them. I'd be trying to let that water flow under the bridge and try to move on because Ben's not, he's not in a very good position being aligned with Tony.

He's not. So. Yeah. For Jeremy and Tony, it's an interesting relationship because Jeremy looks at Tony and saying like, hey, I like working with Tony because at least Tony is a bigger target than I am. But Tony also looks at Jeremy the same way, where he feels like, okay, everybody's

trying to vote out Jeremy every week. I got to keep him in the game because he's my he's my shield who I'm going to he's going to like there for whatever reason people are going Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy, mostly because Tony's immune. But that keeps people having the target off of from Tony. Was there ever a person that you played with that was a bigger target than you were? Yeah, I mean, I think that I think that Game Changers is probably my biggest, the easiest place for me to draw a comparison. Yeah.

I mean, I looked at Culpepper as being that guy for me. You know, I thought that he would be much more of a target. I think that, you know, unfortunately, my ideas about him were right and wrong like I thought that okay if I can go to the end with cold pepper I think that he's competitive enough that he thinks that he can beat me I know that most likely the jury's not gonna vote for him because he's Brad cold pepper of NFL fame, like he doesn't need it. He doesn't need it at all. So I think that he was probably, for me he was probably that, that player,

or somebody like JT or somebody like Malcolm or, you know, some of those other big physical threats. Those were the types of people that I was trying to like work with. The game didn't go that way. I couldn't never played with Malcolm. I never played with JT. We were always against I mean, we did have like a couple moments and then tribes got switched up. But like those were my guys. Because I thought, okay, we all have huge targets. Let's be let's be safe together and then let's get to the end and then we can battle it out, battle Royale style, best man wins.

So, you know, those were, Tony's strategy using Jeremy is a great strategy. It really is. I really was impressed with Tony also. I watched the episode again this morning and you know that Tony gets word that okay Kim is trying to get people to vote out Tony but don't but Nick says don't worry about it you're immune they can't get you anyway so it's nothing to worry about. Tony's

not going to let it go. Once he hears Kim is working to get people against him then he's like okay I got to figure out a way to still get Kim and he goes to Jeremy or he goes to Ben and he's like Ben Ben let me ask you please please is there anything I can do to get you to vote with Jeremy and because he knows like he's having to like do damage control and try to like he's he's he needs to mediate between Ben and Jeremy to try to get them back on the same page to vote against him to get what he wants to have happen. So I thought that that's not something I would have thought would have been in Tony's skill

set of having to play the mediator between two guys who are at odds with each other. Yeah, I thought that was a great move as well. And I really liked how he's using a couple different people as sort of his canaries. Nick being a huge example, I mean, we could all see it. He just was not prepared for the question from Tony. Tony straight up asks him and Nick's like, what, what, what, what, what, what, and it was obvious he was lying. He really like dug himself into a hole there. And he's kind of like given Tony a little more, a little more ammunition

because now Tony knows that Nick is not being honest with him. He knows now what's going on with the other people in the Alliance, in Kim's Alliance. So I think that his move right there was, really does show how far Tony has come in his arc of playing the game. I think he's, somehow he's matured in his gameplay. He was like playing like a wild man, game changers, and it got him into trouble.

I think he's done just enough to not get into trouble, but he's had some really great moves. And I think that's one of them. And I think that if there's a defining moment in Tony's career, that could end up being one of the things that really tips the scales for him. Yeah. It was very impressive. And he wouldn't let it go to the point where they got to tribal council. And it seemed like that going into that tribal council, there were going to be

five votes on Jeremy. I think that Ben and Nick were ready to write down Jeremy when they got to tribal council. And I really think that Tony starting to whisper to Jeremy at tribal council ended up putting the wheels in motion for for Nick and for Ben to ultimately flip and put their votes on to Kim. Do you feel like it happened that way? Or do you think that that happened before they got to the tribal council? Oh man, well, this whole like whispering thing at tribal is like kind of driving me crazy. I don't know how I feel about the whispering. It really started in game changer is that a tribal council that you weren't at.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. But you know, like, if we could hear what they're saying, I think that would be one thing I think just simply production giving us subtitles so we know the story that's flying Like that they did do that. Yeah. Yeah, it was way better last night because you kind of you could tell who was talking to who? I think it's great for the jury as well to see who's really pulling the strings. And it's hard to say, but I think what's telling

is the fact that Jeremy had an advantage that he chose not to play. I thought he was going to. Sarah was about to call Tony out to play an advantage, and she then says, okay, don't play. So they have a lot of trust. They've got a lot of trust in Tony. And again, Tony's driving this game.

Right now, he's in the driver's seat. He's the mob boss. He's got all of the attention of everybody who's on the jury. They all know who's playing, who's driving this game. Everyone who I think is still in the game knows that Tony is pretty much the puppet master. So Tony's got a little, I mean, this game has just, it's sort of, he's got it right where he wants it. But Tony has a lot of work to do, man. He's got a lot of work to do. But let's consider, okay, how many people are left in the game? There's

seven people left. So he's got a hidden immunity. So he's going to make it maybe that hidden immunity only allows him to go to four maybe. So if he wins one or two, if he wins two more challenges, if he wins one more challenge, I mean, he might just be sitting in the end and no one can do a damn thing about it. So there's going to be I think four more votes because there is a vote at seven, six, five, and then somebody will come back from the edge and then there'll be another five and then they do fire making it four. So there's four more tribal councils. He's going to have the immunity, his idol still for one of them. So that's still three shots that they could get in on Tony if he doesn't win any more immunities or find any more idols.

Yeah. Which I think Tony's pretty damn good at finding idols. I think that there's going to be some other advantages that happen. Who knows how many... He probably doesn't have any fire tokens at this point because he had to... And that was another... He's coming back. Yeah. That was another great move, by the way. Which one? He saved his ass there. With the extortion?

Yeah, with the extortion. I almost, I kind of thought that he wasn't going to be able to come up with a six. The fact that he was able to convince those two guys to give him to, you know, like good on him. He's been close to going home a few different times and he's been able to save himself. So I think he's just playing goddamn good game right now. I know he's come such a long way and it seems like that game changers was such a teachable moment from him.

It seemed like that going out early, I think it humbled him and got him to, you know, go back and really play a much more patient game, at least to get the season started. When you were at Ponderosa coming into Game Changers, could you tell from Tony, the way Tony was acting, that he was about to go nuts once he hit the beach? I couldn't really tell that. He's a pretty high-strung guy in general. He's like... Has a little bit of the ADD. He just has to be moving, has to be doing stuff, has to be talking, has to be somewhere. So I didn't get to see the extent of his gameplay because I was on a different tribe from him. You could definitely see where the old school Tony, where it was and how he was going to play. And that's why

I'm impressed. I'm impressed that he's been able to change his game just enough, not too much, but just enough to really take some of those cues. And he, I think he let other people drive for long enough that he was able to give himself, you know, that sort of under, under the radar gameplay. But, you know, he's, he's making his big moves now. And that's what you got to do. So, so we saw Kim go out of the game last night. Now, were you very familiar with Kim from her first season? I know it came right after when you played in South Pacific when she first won in one world.

Yeah, I think I did. That's the one where we were introduced to Troy's hand. Troy's hand's first season, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I do remember that. And I just thought that she was, you know, so far, I thought Kim has played an amazing game. Yeah. And I really, I really had my hopes on her to make it. Because I think she's done some good moves and she just, you know, she just made a big mistake last night. And by taking that by not putting in everything she had, she could still be in this game. So I was a little, I was familiar with her and I just,

I thought she did a great job on her first season. Now, Sarah is somebody that you played with in Game Changers. She's working with Tony to this point. Do you see a way for Sarah to either get to the end with Tony and win or does she need to get rid of Tony to win again? I think Sarah has to get rid of Tony to win. I just think that there's nobody, nobody who's playing right now on the,

who's still in the game. I don't think anyone can beat Tony at this point. Yeah. But that's considering, you know, there's a lot of game left. There's a lot of moves. There's a lot of things people, you know, might look past it. If Sarah makes some big moves now,

if she starts to really show what she can do, I think that it would take backstabbing Tony though. Or at least taking out, now could Sarah win against Ben? I think so. Cause she went against Jeremy. Maybe, maybe not. Yeah. I think Jeremy might be a little more likeable and I think people might want to give, give

it to him more. Um, but I think that Sarah definitely can't beat Tony. I think that she's got it. She's got to get him out. Do you feel like that Sarah has played differently this season than when she played with you in Game Changers? I don't think Sarah's necessarily played that much different this season.

I think that she's been really lucky in her, the way that, you know, some of the, some of the earlier twists happen and put her in the right, on the right tribes and things. I think that Sarah's also been really smart about how, you know, how and when to play under the radar and who and who to, who to trust and who not to trust. But I think Sarah played a damn good game and game changers. I think that her, um, you know, her. Knowing, knowing when to lie, who to lie to, when to like, when to backstab people, I think that she just, she played a great game.

So I think that she's been a little a great game. So I think that she's been a little, a little more under the radar than, than she should be at this point. But again, she's still in the game. So she's got, she's got a lot going for her, but she's also, I think she's by aligning herself with Tony and people now know that her and Tony are obviously working together. She's got a big target on her back as well. So she either needs to make a big move or she needs to hide behind someone else. I don't know. It's looking harder and harder for her to win the game if she continues to just play with Tony and let Tony make what looks like all the big calls.

continues to just play with Tony and let Tony make what looks like all the big calls. I went back and I listened to the exit interview that we did after you got voted out on Survivor Game Changers. And I had asked you at that time, who was the person that you felt most betrayed by of the people that voted against you? And you had said it was Sarah and you guys felt, and you felt like that you had had a bond with her and it was a real betrayal in your mind for Sarah to vote against you. I feel like that this season we've seen a lot more about her being able to make these like really strong social bonds with people whereas I feel like we didn't see that as much in Game Changers. Does that hurt more when somebody, you know, really is, you know, forming that social bond

with you before they ultimately turn their back on you? I don't know, that was just, that was probably me being a, being just hurt, you know, by by what I thought was friendship. But, you know, I don't, I don't think so. I think that you're, you know, you're out there to make friends, but you're also out there to win. You're out there to like have a good time, but you know, you're out there to win. So, you know, I think that, um, I don't know. That's a tough question. You know, I just, yeah, I don't know, man. But you've never done that to anybody in four seasons of playing the show. Is that fair to say that there was never a vote? Unless I unless this one that I can't think of, where that you ended up turning against somebody who you had a friendship with in the game? No, not really.

I mean, there was one. Yeah. I think I made a huge mistake voting Amy Cusack out in Fans vs. Favorites. I think that that was one of the stupidest things that I've ever done in Survivor. I think that that, I listened to the wrong people. I didn't trust someone. I didn't trust Amy.

Amy, I think had all my best intentions at heart. She knew about my idol. And I think that getting rid of her at that time really like set the stage for me losing later on. So I think that yeah, it's, I'm not free of guilt at all. I've done that in the past. And I understand the kind of toll that it has.

And again, I think that not only did I, if I had done that and it had like proven to be a good move and I had been strategically set up to go further in the game because of it, maybe, but for me, that was just a stupid move. And I betrayed a friend that I had with somebody that could have been a potential alliance, you know, in an alliance with me, they could have been looking out for me later in the game. I had no reason to do that. And I did it. And it was, and I still regret to this day doing that. And not just because it fucked me over in a strategic way, but because Amy's just

such a great person and I couldn't see, I couldn't, I couldn't see that. I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm a survivor mastermind. What was the concern that she had relationships with people on the other side? Was that what the issue was? Because she said to Tracy and Chet, like, yeah, we're going to vote Ozzy out. She was probably just lying to them and I heard, you know, and it was just stupid. She was upset. She was upset that she wanted to like prove to you that she was loyal. Yeah. Yeah. It was so, it was so dumb.

Yeah. You know, I feel horrible about that. So I get it. I really do. And I understand, you know, you, you got to make hard decisions sometimes. And sometimes those decisions, you know, if, if, if I had been able to turn that to my advantage voting out Amy, I'd still feel horrible about it, but at least that would have had some benefit. I just did something that was totally dumb and it didn't even benefit me. So it was even worse. Yeah.

So I can see, like I can totally understand. Like, you know, I don't blame Sarah for voting me out at all. That was the right move. So we saw last night, Tony, we've seen him in the past. He's got the spy shack. He's built the spy bunker in game changers. Last night, he took to the air with the spy nest. Now you are famous for your ability to climb trees out on Survivor. Ozzy, do you see value in a spy nest? Yeah, I can see value in a spy nest. I think I've thought about, you know, after seeing Tony do, do, you know, use his use that move before I've tried to do that. I've tried to like hide out and

like, you know, catch people talking. But I think that that's something that Tony does the best. And, you know, he might end up being able to use that. He might end up hearing the right conversation at the right time. He might just see two people that he didn't think were talking, talking. I mean, who knows? But I just think his antics are incredible. I want to see more of this. How long could you sit up there in the tree without anybody knowing that you're up there? I mean, you could probably be up there for a while, but eventually people are going to say, okay,

either they're looking for an idol or they're up to no good. So regardless, like you're being away from camp has its own dangers and limitations. Yeah. So is the risk worth the reward? I don't know. What did you think of Tony's ladder? Oh man, I was, I don't know what the hell he was doing with that, but he was,

the only thing that I feel bad for is the breadfruit, because those were obviously not the right breadfruits. I don't even think they could eat them. But you know, I like all of the antics that people get up to on Survivor. It's a nice break from the game. Yeah. So, Ozzy, as we're doing this podcast, you're on video.

I'm seeing you, you're wearing the camo shirt. When we first came on, you say, I'm wearing my shirt to do this. And going back and watching you, yeah, you always have the camo shirt on. Was that just a wardrobe choice that they made for you in the beginning and it just stuck? Or is there a significance to you wearing the camo shirts? No, that was my choice in the very beginning. Yeah. And then I created the Aussie persona by wearing this camo.

It's become my calling card. Just like, you feel weird about seeing Rob without his hat. Yeah. It's just one of those things that now I'm just, I just got it because I was like, well, if I'm going to be going out to be stranded Trinidad and deserted island, you know, I thought and I knew, you know, obviously I'd seen Survivor. I was like, well, could be an advantage to be camouflaged hiding in bushes, hearing people, you know, have conversations. In the spine elf.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So it's become, it's become part of me. And you, I I now I just I really I Like that. It's part of my survivor look. Yeah, you know when people think of you You're so synonymous with doing so well in the challenges and you know I think that you're an interesting case because that as far as I know you're not like a traditional athlete.

I just would love to know in terms of like, it seems like that you're always described as having like natural ability, as opposed to you're not like a CrossFit guy or a marathon runner or have like a long history like in an organized sport. So really, how do you train for Survivor? And how did you get so good at all of these things?

That's a really tough question. Yeah, I think that there's a few things that you can do that will help you kind of train to be on Survivor. I think that balance is a key part of it. I think being able to run a physical, run yourself physically, and then be able to use your mind in puzzles. Yeah, I think it really is kind of like one of the hardest things to train on, but also part of what makes a really great individual immunity player.

But do you train for Survivor? Like if you're going to go back or is it just like you just have it in you and you're just good at what you're good at? just like you just have it in you and you're just good at what you're good at. Now I don't really train, although in my younger days, I don't think I necessarily needed to per se, but as I've gotten older and slower and stupider, like I probably should, I should probably just in case I get called back next year, the year after, I should probably start training now for that. Yeah. But there's just a few things that I do in my life that really help.

Skateboarding, surfing, going camping for long periods of time, those kinds of things help. But again, I think that I just am lucky enough that running obstacle courses and playing, just being agile has been all I really needed to do. What's your history with athletics from before that you were ever on Survivor? Did you ever play any organized sports? Oh yeah, I played sports my whole entire life. So I've always been a swimmer. I did diving. So I was a diver when I was in like, in middle school through high school soccer, I played football, wrestling, track, rugby,

frisbee, just team sports in general. But my main sports were skateboarding and surfing. Surfing, I've been surfing now since probably for 20, 25 years. Yeah. probably for 20, 25 years. That's been one of my... That's been one of the things that's really helped me almost the most in Survivor. Yeah. And you still do it? You're still surfing when you can? Yeah. Yeah. I'm surfing as much as possible. I've gotten in the last few years, I've gotten really into ocean swimming and doing triathlons. So I'm trying to keep myself occupied with things that are going to keep me in somewhat of physical shape just in case, just in case the producers decide to call me back.

How about the fishing? Is that something that you just tried for the first time on Survivor or had you been able to do spearfishing when, you know, previous to going out there? Let's see, the first time I went out on Survivor, I had spearfished a few times. Nothing really like I wasn't very good at it. I just, I kind of understood the basic concept, but I didn't really know what I was doing. And then Cook Islands, I just ended up being that guy and went out and had a, just had a great time and just really learned that

I had a natural aptitude for spearfishing. And it just sort of became like part of my thing that and like climbing coconut trees. I don't think I've ever actually tried to attitude for spearfishing and it just sort of became like part of my thing. That and like climbing coconut trees. I don't think I ever actually tried to climb a coconut tree. I thought I could, but just once I was out there, I was like, all right, well, I'm going to try it. And then it turned out that I could do it. Of the different locations that you've been to, which one did you enjoy the most, regardless of the outcome of the season? which place did you like being in? South Pacific. So we played in Samoa. That was where South Pacific was. That was one of my favorite locations. The reef was just absolutely beautiful. There was tons of coconuts. There was

like wild bananas and chili peppers. And like there was a lot of food in abundance. Fiji's been really amazing as well. As far as like the reef and the natural environment. I had a bad feeling. This is... So when Game Changers, that season happened, they filmed seasons back to back, right? So Gen X versus Millennials, as they shot right before. And we all know there was a slight big part of that season where there was a cyclone that

went through and it just rips, it toppled a bunch of trees. It rips every single coconut and every single palm frond off of every single tree on the entire islands of Fiji. So when game changers started, there was zero coconuts on any tree. And I was like, my game's over. I'm like, I'm not going to win. There's no coconuts on the trees. I can't do what I'm like I want to do. So I had a bad feeling about that from day one on Game Changers. It was a bad omen for me. I was like, crap, I'm screwed. So that might have been another

thing with my mental game. I talked myself out of it from the very beginning. Ozzy, I have a lot of questions for you also from the listeners. Ron from Toronto wants to know, Ozzy, did any of the players reach out to you for advice or intel on the other players before the season? Did anybody reach out to you for a scouting report on what's it like to play with this other person? No. No.

No. Has that ever happened? Well, I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Yes. You know, CBS, the producers are, well, let's just say the production is very, very, very clear about pregame alliances, about people talking to each other. And for good reason, because seasons like this,

I can guarantee you people were talking. I can guarantee people were talking. Everybody knows, you know, what, our community is small. And when the rumor mill starts happening, you know, people start to talk. I was not, nobody asked me specifically about any one person that's played the game. But I can almost guarantee you that there either there was

pregame alliances or people just have unspoken. I mean, look, when we go to events, we had a couple drinks, we're often make really bad jokes. We're like, Hey, we knew we're going to the end if we ever play together. So these kinds of like... And this has been a theme of the show. The people that have known each other and have had relationships versus people that have fewer relationships. And it's kind of part of the difficulty of navigating a season full of winners is, you know, everybody's got these past relationships. So how do you make sure, you know, if I had known, for example, that

Troisanne and Brad were such good friends, like I didn't know that they were good friends. Yeah. They were good friends outside of the game. They knew each other outside of the game. If I had known that going into the game, would have completely changed the way I played Game Changers. It wasn't until after I was done and voted off that somebody told me like, yo, yeah, they're friends.

Like they are in alliance together because they're homies. It's like, I should have known that. You know, that's part of my bad. I didn't know, like I didn't, not that embedded in the community that I know like who knows who whose relationships are with who. So yeah, it could backfire too, because I think that probably people would have said like, oh, like, well, Ozzy knows Parvati in Micronesia. So and then it could also be the kind of thing where then, you know, you're

not looking for that kind of a betrayal from somebody that you know before also. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, but specifically that question, nobody asked about any of the returning players. Hunter wants to know, Ozzy, who was your favorite castaway to play with? Was there like one person that you were out there with that was really just the most fun to be around? Let's see.

Most fun to be around. Somebody asked me this the other last night. And, you know, this is a player that didn't have a lot of time in the game and was on my first season of Cook Islands. Okay. It's somebody that I would love to see come back. And somebody that I had a blast with on the show. And that was Cowboy. Cowboy. Yeah. Yeah. a blast with on the show and that was Cowboy. Cowboy.

Yeah. Cowboy was a wild man. He was insane. He had amazing stories. He really didn't give up about anything. He just was out there to have a blast. He's somebody that I really enjoyed playing with. I knew who he was, how much of a wild card he was,

and I would love to see him come back. He's somebody that I would love to talk to sometime because he seemed like such an interesting character on the show. What happened the day that you guys just showed up at one of the other camps, right? Did I have that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's so crazy.

Wait, I just got in the boat or it was the same island and you just walked all the way to, and you popped up at the other camp? Nah, it was, so we, we had these outrigger canoes and you know, I just got it in my head one day. We were like in between, we were on one of the like off days, we didn't have a challenge. So it's kind of like do whatever you want day. And I think it was a cowboy flicker myself. If I had to guess, I think that's who it was. But don't... I think so. And we were... So in Cook Islands, it's a toll. So you have like... There was another island

that was... It didn't look that far away. It was like, you know, probably a good 20-minute paddle in the canoe. And I was looking... This was my first season, so I didn't realize how things work. I didn't know, like, okay, there's probably another tribe over there. You couldn't really see. It was far enough away that you couldn't see people. Yeah. tribe over there. You couldn't really see. It was far enough away that you couldn't see people. Yeah. So I was like, Hey, let's go explore. Let's go to that island and maybe we can find some like fruit or who knows what's there. You know, and I just Flicka and Cowboy were the

ones that seemed excited about it. So I was like, all right, guys, let's go. That's crazy. I can't even, I can't even believe they let us do that. I was going to say that no producers were like, hey, actually guys, that's the other camp over there. You can't do that. Yeah. Well, I think that it was so early in, that kind of thing hadn't been done on the show yet. So I think they were like, let's see what happens. And it's kind of cool because I think that that, us doing that sort of opened the door for some other twists that happen later on this season.

Yeah. The perfect example is the advantage that Sarah got where she could sneak into the other camp and get the idol from somebody. I think that that is super cool. I really like that kind of thing. We didn't really use it to our advantage. I didn that that is super cool. I really like that kind of thing. We didn't really use it to our advantage. I didn't know what I was doing when I first played. Showing up on that other island, I probably could have made really cool relationships with Parvati or Nate or any of the other people that were there and tried to use that later on. So that was that... The funny thing about that story is we left in the morning, we went

to the island. And then when we decided to go back, the wind had started blowing really hard. And it took us like... I thought that we were going to be out of the game. I thought we were going to sink our boat because the wind picked up and it took us like an hour and a half to paddle back to the island. So like it was, I was like, I kind of got a little bit scared. Not that I was going to drown or anything, but I thought maybe we were going to sink our boat or like not be able to get back. I had no idea what was going to happen, but it was, it wasn't, it was pretty close that we didn't make it back to our island. Yeah, that's wild. Let me ask you a question from Baby Andy, who says, Odzy, you were a

finalist and then you were on the jury three times. How did your views as a jury member evolve over your career? What does it take to be worthy of being the sole survivor? I think it's very interesting. So the first time you played, you ended up being the person who's in that final three. And then you then go on to sit and have a seat at these three other final tribal councils. Do you feel like, before I let you answer baby Andy's question, If it was flipped around, if you had been to three tribal councils, final tribal councils before you sat in the final three,

do you think that that would have been different? Would you have taken a lot of things that you learned from the other final tribal councils? Let's see, so to answer that last part first, I think that if I had been to three Tribals as a jury member, and then been able to sit as, you know, as a final two or three, I definitely would have played, I would have, it would have changed the way that I spoke to the jury. And I would have highlighted a little more of what I had done strategically. And I would have just, I would have, I would have, I would have spoken differently to the

jury. Now, the hard part is, is going first and making it to the end, my first season, and then going back and being a jury member, I voted for people for my reasons, not for any other reasons. So I never voted for any winners. So coming back, I didn't vote for the winners. I voted for Amanda. I voted for Cole Pepper and I voted for Sophie. Yes. No, Sophie. No, Sophie, I guess I did vote for her. So I did. I think I voted for Sophie.

I don't even remember. I think you did because I know that coach over the years, I've heard him talk about how that he felt like as a fellow returning player, he felt like that you should have voted for him. Yeah. Well, just a little bit on that. Coach is full of shit. You know what, coach, if, and coach,

coach reached out to apologize to me a few years ago, saying like, for one, him shit talking after the game was over, my play was like wrong. Yes. Two, that he should have, it should have been him and I sitting in the final together. Because I think that would have been the most amazing season. I think that would have been a real and I think he would have had a real shot

if he had been truthful about it. Yeah, I tried my hardest to give him the ammunition to win that final tribal. Like I said, I gave him that softball. So you know, I think the coach was definitely hurt that I didn't vote for him. But I gave him the opportunity and I gave him a softball so he could have. So I think that, just to go back to that question, being able to... What deserves to win? I think my metric is probably a lot different than other people's metric because I know, for example, if Brad Culpepper had been a little bit nicer to people and wasn't Brad

Culpepper, I think he would have won that game because of what, because of his immunity run that he went in, in the end and how he was able to play. I think that people discounted his strategy because he was kind of an asshole. I think that if he had just been a little nicer, I think, and he wasn't Mr. Cole Pepper from the NFL, I think that he actually played a damn good game. And I look at that and I look at what it takes as a physical competitor to go on an immunity run and know that if you lose, you're out of the game and know that that's the kind

of pressure that you feel from that. I place a little more value on that than just being a liar. I place a little more value on that knowing that you got to win than just being able to lie really well to people. That's just my own personal thing. Not only was Brad a, not only was he a physical competitor and did really well in the immunity challenges

and did make some strategic moves, but he was also just a badass around camp and really like, he wouldn't fish and catch stuff and do all the things that I think are really great about survivors. So the problem with him is, you know, he just wasn't, he wasn't likable. He was, he was, he made a big fuss. He was constantly just like, yeah, yapping away and making, you know, when you get going lockdowns, when you're going from one place to another, he would just be

talking shit and back talking to the producers. And at a certain point, it's like, cool. At other points, you're just like, ah, dude, just shut up. Yeah. And you're pissing everybody off. You're pissing them off. You're pissing your contestants off. You just gotta shut up and be a nice guy. Right, right. To go back to your final tribal council in Cook Islands, you know, I actually

think that you did, you know, a good job in that final tribal council that I feel like that, you know, you'll, you know, I think that that's not a great environment for him to like be able to like to be called out for things. And I think that that's not a great environment for him to like be able to like to be called out for things. And I think that the way that you speak to people, I think it's a little bit more like you are like, I think that the same things that you're calling coach out for, I think that you in terms of like being upfront and honest with people, I think that that's actually a good skill set for the final tribal council. So it was a 5-4 vote, super close. So I was watching some of that today. And I believe

it, I think it's Jenny Guzan-Bey. She asked you in the final tribal council, she asked everybody about, or what's the hardest thing that you've had to overcome to get to this point? And you told, you talked about how the hardest thing for you was that you had a relationship with your dad where you were not close and it was very hard for you because your dad wasn't ever a part of your life. That was something that was a really hard thing for you. And I have wondered, did you ever end up rekindling that relationship in all the years since then,

in terms of when the show was on and all of the fame that you had because of Survivor? Yeah, I mean, it was difficult because I think that being confronted with how you lived your life up to that point was something I wasn't really expecting as a question. So I think being able to kind of like open myself up and be vulnerable, not only to everybody who is on the jury, but also millions of people watching at home.

It wasn't something that I didn't know where it was going with that question. I just, she asked the question and it was something that, one of the hardest parts of my life up to that point. And so taking the opportunity to really let people in, I'm really glad that I did. I think that it helped me to sort of reconcile the decisions that my father made growing up, you know, as I was growing up and being sort of absentee, you know, unfortunately, I wasn't able to really do too much to repair

the relationship. You know, we just, we had always lived different lives. And even though I, you know, I made it, even though I made it very like public, my, uh, my journey, trying to come to terms with, you know, what it's like to, to, to, to, you know, confront a person, a parent that's not been there in your life. Um, you know, I just wasn't able to ever make ever make up for that lost time. And I tried. And we definitely were... We had an opportunity and I did what I could, but he was living in Mexico and he passed away a few years ago. And I still regret not being, you know, not going back and just kind of like letting go of the resentment that I had of him not being around when I was a child. And I think that that's something that I would hope would inspire

people that if anyone else is out there that has a sort of a relationship with their mom or dad that wasn't around that you can see past their shortcomings and just know that someday they're not going to be there and you're not going to be able to go back and you're not going to be able to change the past. But all you can really do is try to repair things about your relationship now and going forward in the future. And, you know, we can resent people that have hurt us, but it doesn't get us anywhere. It really creates pain and suffering in our own selves. So I think that if any, if it just helps a couple people, if it helps one person, I'm

glad that I made that part of my personal life really public because I think that it's important. And I'm not saying I'm a perfect person and I have a lot that I need to work on. But knowing that, you know, you've got to forgive people's transgressions. And a lot of times people are really trying their hardest and I didn't, you know, I held on to that for way too long. And the experience of being on Survivor and sort of using that platform to kind of talk about those things that really hurt me, it's helped me to heal and it's helped me to overcome and it's helped me to, um, to, to understand that, you know, if you can

try to repair the relationship and at least just understand that that's, that's, that's just something that happened and you've got to, you got to deal with it. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you sharing all of that because I think that it's, uh, going to really, uh, leave a lot of people very touched to hear that story. So thank you for, you know, opening up about that. I'm sure it's not easy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. Let me ask you this question from Scott Chernoff, who wants to know, Ozzy, you've played with so many winners. Is there something that they all have in common as players? Does any trait set them apart from the other players or does

it mostly come down to timing and luck? Do you feel like that, you know, you've been around these, all these people who have gone on to win the game, Parvati, Sandra, Sophie, Yule. Is there some, is there one thing that you could put your finger on that all of them have? Man, that's a tough question. I don't know if there's one thing that they all have. I think they've all got, they've all got a lot of similar qualities, but I don't know, there's a lot of luck involved. There's a lot of timing involved. But I don't necessarily think there's any one thing. I don't think there's any one type of person.

I think that lots of different types of people can win this game. I think that, you know, sometimes it does all come down to luck. I think that, you know, sometimes it does all come down to luck. I think that, you know, if, if I had to play devil's advocate, I could tell you this, that somebody who's never won the game, that should have won somebody like Suri. I think that she exemplifies a player that had everything going for them, was playing a perfect game.

And she just got so unlucky on game changers where everybody had an advantage except for her and she got sent home. I think that Suri was in a position to win that game. I think she was doing a great job. And I think Suri would be an example of somebody I would say who has almost all that it takes. But she just got unlucky. So I think that you can have people that do have what it takes and they get lucky. So I don't necessarily say that there's one quality that they all have. They all have in common. I think everybody that I've played against that's won the game has, you know, some had a little more luck than others. But

you know, yeah, I wouldn't say that there's just one overarching quality that they all share. Can Suri win ever, do you think? I think Suri can win. I think Suri can win. I think that she just would need, you know, she would just need like one little bit of luck to go her way. You know, but I think that she could definitely win. I think that her, her ability to play socially with people is one of her biggest strengths. I think that she's got an amazing nose for a lie. Those are people are telling the truth and when they're not. And I think that that skill in and of itself, if there was going back to that previous question,

if there was anything that could give you that little bit of advantage is just being as astute socially as possible. And if you got that one little, I think that does give you more of an advantage as an athlete. And I'm not saying that necessarily Sophie had that or because I think that it was again, coaches game to lose that time. But I think you will have that I think party definitely has that. So your, your, your, your social awareness, I think would have to be if, if any of any quality the social awareness, you know, you've got to be your, your empathy and your ability to, to, to sense that is probably going to be the number one quality. But I do think Seri could win. I'd love to see her win.

Yeah. I think a lot of us would like to see it. I just want to like, I just feel like Game Changers was like the perfect scenario where she's right there and then runs into that buzzsaw with all the advantages. In fans versus favorites, that there had been a final three ever since you were part of the first final three. There's a final three in Survivor 14, Survivor 15. And then because of, I don't know if it was the medical evacuations or what, final two that season. It's been debated for many

years. If there is a final three, does Suri win fans versus favorites? Final three? Yes, you say? I say yes. Yeah. Okay. She has enough votes there if it's a seven person that you're probably still going to vote for Amanda. Are there enough votes left there for Surrey. I Think so. I think so. I think that Surrey God I can't remember who else was on the jury at that point. It was it was Eliza Alexis me

Natalie And Jason and Eric and forgetting somebody. Alexis. I just think that you know actually that's really difficult because Parvati did a great job getting Alexis, getting Natalie, even Eric to some extent. I think she did a great, then Jason, Analyza. You know, that's a toss up. That's really difficult.

I think that she could have done it. But you never know. I think Suri also has the gift of Gab. Yeah. She's on the final trial of counsel. She would have been great. But I also think that one of the qualities that is, it's hard to pinpoint, hard to give, you don't know how much weight to give it. But the fact that Suri is a mother, has worked her ass off since she was a little kid.

Her backstory, I think, would give her an advantage in a final tribal against two young, beautiful girls that have everything going for them. I think that Suri could make an amazing case for why she deserves to win. And I think that I would have voted for that if I didn't have my love blinders on. I would see that as being like, look, she's a nurse, has a bunch of kids. She deserves it. And she's one of those people that went from sitting on her couch to being final Tribal. So yeah. This is a question from Troy Steinmetz. Jeff loves to call out people at Tribal who stepped down from challenges for awards.

As a jury member, how much should people factor something like that into a vote? You obviously love the challenges, but you probably also know that not every challenge is a fit for every player. And someone who isn't going to win may strategically opt out to get some calories. Should that bother you as a juror? We saw like the jury reacting to Jeff said, by the way, everybody, Kim and Michelle and

Nick stepped down for peanut butter. Even poverty was like, Kim, how could you? Well, it's, it does depend, but I think, yeah, I think that it was a huge mistake on Kim's part. That was a huge mistake. You don't really know as part of the jury, is that gonna weigh on your decision whether or not to vote for someone or not? I don't necessarily think that I'm gonna give that. That's not gonna weigh my vote that much.

I might see somebody if there was a really obvious way to get an advantage by opting out to somehow put votes on someone else. I don't know, maybe there would be some strategic reason, but I wouldn't put a lot of weight behind it. It's your game to lose. So Kim made a huge mistake by not putting giving it her all. And I think that you know she's really she's probably sitting there watching knowing that like that could have been her game right then and there. Yeah just to stick with this idea about you know going for it in all the challenges you know Tyson who I do feel like that you and he have

like some similarities as a player and in this the season that he won He ultimately had an injury But he milked the injury for that people thought that all of a sudden Tyson always always getting voted out because they say oh Tyson so good in the challenges He'll win the challenges if we keep him around and then in the season that he won He had this injury that he really ended up like, like over exaggerating how hurt he was to the point where it actually diminished his threat level. And he's also somebody that talks about how that he would often when he given the

chance to eat or compete, he wants to eat because he wants to sort of like maybe not look as perfect to people where like it kind of pisses people off a little bit about him. And then people don't say, oh, I've got to go to the end and sit with him. And I wonder Ozzy, could this work for you Ozzy? In the same way that Tony said, hey, if I go out and go look for idols, then people will vote me out. Tony had to like resist his superpower to ultimately get to the point in the game where now he can look for the idols that I wonder like, could you take a page out of this book?

Yeah, definitely. 100% I've been taking notes. Yes. I have told myself after a game changers that if I ever get the amazing opportunity to go back and play that I'm not going to be the spear fisherman that I have been in the past. Yes. I'm not going to play the same way that I played in the past that I'm going to change my game. I have to. It's just it's old. it's an old, you know, it's an old hat at this point to keep going out and providing fish and like being gone from camp and doing, you know, that was just such a, you know, I had my chance to do that and I can't play that way again. And I don't even think I would necessarily need to play it up. I'm almost 40 years old.

Like, if I ever get a chance to play again, like I'm not going to be the same young guy. I'm not going to have the same amount of stamina, ability, like anything that I had when I was 25. I'm just not. So I don't even think I would have to try that hard. You know, it would just be about resisting the temptation to like want to get back into my old my old tricks. So I've seen how Tyson was able to win that game and I've seen how other people have milked injuries. I've seen how you know sort of not trying to be this like perfect person can actually be really advantageous and really help. So I

think that you know whoever just asked that, thank you. Hopefully if I ever play again, people forget about this and I can maybe utilize that to my advantage. We're two hours into this. I mean, who's the one like, what players are listening to this stuff? But in terms of you and Tyson, again,

again, I think that just in thinking of where Tyson is right now, his goal is to be at least Ozzy in South Pacific and come back into the game for a second time. What's interesting is that in the season he won, he had to stave off that person where Tina comes back from the Redemption Island in that season and he had to deal with how to untangle the, okay, how do I make sure I knock out the person who's come back from the redemption Island? Do you think that that would give him an advantage in terms of when he comes back, knowing what to do to be able to get to the end?

Say that one more time. So you think when he comes, do you think he has any advantage in having to, he's lived through going through, okay, somebody's come back at the final six. How do I ultimately untangle that knot to get to the end without letting that person in? Yeah, I think that Tyson has all of this. He's got all of the tools at his disposal to be able to come back and be like an underdog winner. I really think that we can't discount him or Boston Rob for that matter at this point. I think that Rob has a little more

of a, will have a little more of a harder time doing it because I think that Rob, just being boss and Rob and the power duo with Amber, I think they've had a pretty good advantage this whole time. So I think that it'll be hard, if say Rob was able to come back in, I think it'll be harder for Rob to make the case than Tyson. I think that Tyson does have a way with words and a way with people and is

a very likable person. And I think he's, he's smart enough to know how to do that. So I'm not saying that Rob isn't, but I think that Rob's got a little more of a difficult battle with that. You know, I haven't really even asked you anything about a couple of the people that you've played with in this season. What have you thought about Yule and that his, his journey so far in this season? How do you feel like that he ended up doing? I think that, you know, I had high hopes that Yule was going to do better than he did. I don't necessarily think that you you'll is like a he's got a physique out of like, you know, he's like a Greek God, right?

He's not a now I think that when you guys played. Yeah, I think so. You know, and he that's what he's always been very impressive in that. But he's never been like the strongest of challenges. He's just never been that good at like individual challenges. I don't know if he's ever even won an individual immunity. Well, in fairness to you all that he had to go up against you, how many times did he come in second? That's true. That's true. But I just don't see him as being a contender for getting back

in the game. I had hoped that he would have played a little more of a strategic game. I was hoping to see just a little more, I don't know, I just, I thought that he might be able to be a little more flexible and be able to adapt to this new style of play. But I think it was just a little too fast for him. I also think that he got a little too comfortable and didn't realize, you know, that, who was it that, was it Wendell that? Yeah, that he was trying to get Wendell voted out

and then Wendell stayed. He had the relationship with Michelle and then Nick also voted against Yule. Yeah. So, you know, that's unfortunate for Yule. I think that he just didn't, he just didn't quite see, you know, the, the relationships that were happening. And something also that I think that bit him in the ass is the fact that he confronted Tyson or he confronted Wendell after that tribal council.

Yeah. And so he kind of put himself on Wendell's radar. And, you know, I think that you saw like, what a great person you'll is because he was trying to like help his alliance member he was trying to like, you know, talk about his feelings to Wendell and Wendell was like, yo man, you're trying to get me out. Like you're done. Right, right. I don't think that, I think Yule was playing a little more of the like older classic version of Survivor that he did well at. I don't think that he was able to change his game enough

for this season. Were you surprised that when Parvati and Yule ended up on the same tribe, that there was like nothing, no relationship, that, you know, Parvati ends up getting voted out. And in hindsight, you know, maybe, you know, if Yule gets voted out next, maybe if he can figure out something to do with Parvati there in that spot that he can stick around. Oh yeah. I think that it's unfortunate that Yule didn't utilize his past relationship with Parvati.

Yeah. And maybe he tried and Parvati wasn't having it, but something tells me that there- She's getting voted out. I think she would have had something to do with it. Yeah, exactly. And I think that you'll miss an opportunity there. It's again, I you know, in hindsight, you can play the game a lot of different ways. But when you're in it, you might have just looked at it and said, you know, hey, I'm

in a great position. Yeah. Why would I? Why would I throw away these relationships for somebody that's on the chopping block? It's an easy vote, but you know, you never know. You never really know. Ozzy. It was like, why couldn't they remember the glory days from the hot tub? I know. You'll impoverty. We had such, that was such a fun reward. Way back when. Yeah. Yeah, it was incredible.

Yeah. So no luck there. Okay. And then, you know, Sandra, I'd say so that you were one, there was one episode where you were live tweeting where Sandra got voted out. You seemed like that you were really impressed with what Denise did when Sandra got knocked out of the game.

So impressed. So impressed. I, you know, I thought that, let's see, I'm trying to remember what happened. So Sandra, she got, she, Denise had an idol and Sandra said, here, I'll give you an idol for two fire tokens. And then you write down Tony's name and we'll all vote for you. Yeah. Yeah. And Denise did end up writing down Tony's name and we'll all vote for you. Yeah. Yeah. And Denise did end up writing down Tony's name. No, she wrote down Sandra's name. She did everything that Sandra said because she wrote down Sandra instead of Tony. So she fully just like, she fully lied. But you know what? Denise, that was a power move. That was a power move. I was so impressed

with that. And I thought that like, you know, if you can somehow make it to the end and you don't have moves like that, if you can't show on your resume that you made some really risky strategic moves, then you know, you don't deserve to win the game. You might still win, but I think that Denise really showed what it takes to get further

and to really... Well, I'll say two things. I think Denise just, that was an amazing move for one. And I think that Sandra kind of like, I think she was trying to come up with a good move herself. I think that she sensed there's something happening. And, you know, let's be honest, she's the what are you going to let Sandra win for a third time? Like, you know, her chances of getting to the end were very small. She did whatever

she could. I think that, you know, I think that she probably just thought that it was all the all the move that she had. And so God bless her, you know, she did what she could and it came back to bite her in the butt. But Denise, you know, taking that risk and knowing and having that wherewithal to play the way she did was, it was beautiful. All right. A couple more questions for you, Ozzy.

Kevin Epley wants to know, how would Ozzy handle Tony's eccentric behavior if you were allied together? Would you be able to trust him or would you be trying to find a way out? I think that I'm one of the few people that could potentially, you know, I'm not, I don't know how I would have played this game, but I think I'm one of the few people that would be comfortable staying aligned with Tony. I think that Tony is actually like the kind of guy that I'd want to be aligned with from the beginning. Everything that Tony's doing would work for my game because he's been a bigger target. Yeah, he's making big moves, but hopefully there'd be room to like also make some big

moves. So I think that I would be, I'd be excited to work with Tony. This wouldn't bother you Ozzie, where now like put yourself like in the Sarah role, where now you're working, you're working with Tony and now you go to, you have a plan, you go to tribal council and a completely different person that you were working with gets voted out of the tribal council. That wouldn't drive you crazy? Oh, that would drive me absolutely crazy. I would want my emotional self would want to say, you're done, Tony, get out of here. You sunk my game. I'm ruined. But you got to know that by him doing that, he's got that big target on his back now. And hopefully

he's not going to win another immunity. And yeah, he's got that big target on his back now. And hopefully he's not going to win another immunity. And yeah, he's got a hidden immunity idol. But he's only got, you know, he's skating on the edge. So Sarah, I think Sarah can see that she's got to make some big moves. She knows that I think she's smart enough to know that Tony's beating her right now. And she's got to do something to come out on top. So I think that, luckily for Sarah, Tony's kind of like made the... He's drawn first blood.

So if you got an alliance with somebody and your alliance member lies to you for an advantage so they can get further in the game, they've kind of like opened themselves up. So if Sarah backstabs Tony or last lied to Tony, she kind of has free cards. She's got to have a carte blanche right now to do whatever she wants. And hopefully she does. Sarah could win this game as well. If Sarah becomes the two time winner of Survivor, is she the best ever? No, I won't say she's the best ever.

Okay. No, I think that, I think that that's a really, really, to give somebody the title of best ever, I think that for somebody like Sarah, I think she'd have to do a little bit more. But that might just be me being like, you know, not wanting to not wanting to admit that she's a great player.

Yeah. But don't you want to be beat by a great player? Yeah, yeah, for sure. 100%. 100%. But again, like, if Tony becomes a two time winner, are we going to, you know, are we going to say that he's the best ever? I think that there, there, there are a lot of players here that could potentially wear that, that crown of best ever. The problem is, is in a game like this, again, you also have so much luck involved and you could be the best player to never win. You know, you could be just based off of your luck. Yeah. I mean, I think that somebody like, if Rob, for example, is able to, if he's able to somehow win this game, you know, he could

potentially be one of those people I might consider saying is the best ever. Maybe. Scott Michael has a question. We've seen a number of different facial hair and hair combos from Ozzy throughout his survivor career. What does Ozzy consider the peak of his hair slash facial hair game. If you were to commission the Ozzy statue for the island of the idols, what would be the hair and facial hair that you'd want to see?

Let's see. I would want to be like. Probably day thirty eight. want to be like probably day 38 Ozzy from South Pacific. Very specific. Where I'm like thin, I got like nice hair, I'm not like, I'm not quite balding as much yet, like it's still all there, you know? So season, so day 38 before even drinking that first beer on, on, uh, sound. All right. That is the peak Ozzy for the statue. This

is where speaking of statues, uh, Ryan Alexander says, uh, we know Ozzy is a legendary challenge performer, probably the best of all time. I'd be curious to know who would Ozzy put on the Mount Rushmore of challenge beasts, or should it just be the four Ozzy's? No, I actually think that I did really well on Cook Islands, but I think that I didn't perform as well on a lot of the individual communities after that that I should have. So I think that there are, yeah, there's a couple of other people that are just were absolutely incredible. I mean, I think Tom Westman, you know, he is Will and Terry Dietz. I think that those guys are just, yeah, they're powerhouses and

they actually inspire me. So, and I hope that if I ever go back that I can like be as physically, physically present as I was when I was in my early 20s. How many individual immunities have you won? I have no idea. No idea. Yeah, I'm sure there's fans out there that have stats on that. I think that if you take into consideration my wins on, my, uh, the, my, my wins on redemption Island, yes, that somehow add that into maybe I'm out there, but I don't, yeah, I don't, I think

I'm a physical player, but I do think that there are, you know, there's other, there's other guys and girls out there that are better than me for sure. Yeah. Um, I had one other question about that. I can't remember. So I'll go on to the next one. Abby Maria said, uh, how do you stay so good looking? LOL. JK. Ha ha ha. So I'm not sure then, uh, what is, what, what part was she kidding about? Um, I don't know, Abby. That's a good question. Thanks for that. But in all seriousness,

I think the only way to sort of fend off the aging is I keep myself properly pickled and I try not to give a fuck. You know, I think that part and part, you know, you got to do a little bit of both. Yeah. What's your favorite drink? Tequila. Tequila. What do you drink it with? Lime. Lime. Tequila.

Straight up with lime. Yeah. Good tequila or any other cactus spirit, any other agave spirit with a little bit of ice and lime. That's good. All that. And I like to drink beer, of course. But I've been in the restaurant business my whole life. So I'm a sommelier.

I love wine. I love to imbibe, but if I had to choose one thing, it would be agave spirits with a little bit of lime and ice. That's it. Okay. I remember when I wanted to ask you about the challenges. Do you feel like the challenges changed now? Even like the challenge that we saw last night, I feel like that everything is like, especially when we get to after the merge, it's quick.

Like, hey, all right, this challenge where it would have been a six hour challenge in season 16. We're going to do this. How do we do this challenge in 15 minutes? Yeah, I think you're right. Everybody stand in a place and hold this thing for as long as you can. Yeah, I think the logistics of some of those really arduous marathon challenges that test your endurance, I think that they should be used in really special occasions. And that could be, you

know, in like a, you know, for fifth place or fourth place or something like, you know, right around there. But yeah, I do sense that they have changed. And I think that they're just trying to give people, you know, maybe more opportunity to scramble at Tribal, or scramble back before going to Tribal. So, the way that, if you have a huge challenge, it takes up a large portion of the day, then you go back to the beach

and you only got an hour to scramble, that might not end up being as conducive to great TV. Yeah. It's interesting that, you know, the challenges, I feel like that they used to be a lot more of like, all right, everybody. All right, go. All right. This doesn't hurt now, but you'll an hour from now, you'll really be feeling it. Whereas every, this is all now like, all right, go. All right. This person's out. This person's out. This person's out. Like where it hurts from the jump. And then it's like, how long can you hold on for? Yeah, exactly. And look, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to downplay

everybody's physical prowess who's still playing on the show. but I definitely think that, you know, you could, if you try and do this for 15 minutes, granted, it's gonna be painful, but it's not that hard. I mean, like, Parvati did this for like two hours. So yeah, they're making it more difficult. But I also think that the level of athleticism on the people that are still playing is maybe not as challenging as some would think. Okay. Elena has a question for you. She feels very confident about your answer. She says, be honest, Ozzy, if you were offered the chance to live on Redemption Island forever and have all of the fish and coconuts you could ever want and never again have to set foot in civilized

society, would you take it? Well, there's a, I'd have to say. She says, I bet my entire IRS payment, the answer is 1000%. Yes. Well, there's, there's a couple caveats. Okay. Where's the tequila? Can I have a surfboard?

A surfboard, tequila, and a lady. Visitors, yes, yes. Then yes. Okay. 100%. 100%. 100%. Okay, that could be the reality show. This could be the new Love Island. Yeah, I'm still thinking of, okay, once all of the travel bans and borders start opening back up again, I'm still considering, you know what, maybe I'm just about to leave it all behind and go live

on a deserted island and I'll send you guys videos every once in a while. Just like that time that you went off to Rarotonga or wherever the hell you went. Yeah. Just going to show up somewhere. Yeah, exactly. You and Cowboy and Flicka and just take over. Oh man, that would be amazing.

Okay. And then, oh yeah, Brian wants to know about, ask Ozzy about his book club idea and his favorite books. I was like, what is this about? And then I looked this up on Twitter and you said that you are a big fan of sci-fi books. You want to start a book club with people. Yeah, exactly. So I put that idea out there because I'm looking for my next book.

I've obviously been reading a lot during the last few weeks. And so I'm just trying to figure out what a book that could potentially be. I've read, I read almost strictly science fiction. Obviously, I wrote Game of Thrones., I wrote me Game of Thrones. I read all the Game of Thrones. There's a couple other fantasy books that I like a lot. I like historical fiction, but science fiction is my go-to. And I think it'd be a really cool opportunity to have something where it'd be a great way

to interact with fans, not necessarily only in the survivor space but outside of that in something like talking about world science fiction books with far reaching ideas. I think that'd be really fun. This is wild. I had no idea. I did not see you as a sci-fi guy. Yeah, yeah. Sci-fi guy all the way. Yeah. Okay. Any recommendations? Let's see. So, there's a really cool... Man, was it Neal Stephenson? I think he wrote this. It's called Seven Eaves. Yeah. Seven Eaves. That was a really awesome book I read a couple years ago. It's kind of like

a kind of about a post-apocalyptic human evolution. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really, that's a great book. Like a thousand pages. So a lot of fun. Everything by Michael Crichton. I mean, he was an amazing author. Robert Heinlein, he wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. That used to be one of my favorite books. Let's see. There's... Oh, God. One of my favorite books in the last couple years is a book called The Dog Stars. And that's also like a post-apocalyptic. It's almost like The Road. Corbyn McCarthy's The Road.

Yeah. But a little more optimistic. Okay. If I have to recommend one book to people that I've already read that's great, would be The Dog Stars. I can't remember the name of the author, but really, really awesome book. Okay. Ozzy, I saw that you did a big clothing drive recently. Yeah. What inspired you to get involved with that? So, a buddy of mine has been doing a bunch of work on the Pine Ridge reservation in the

Dakotas. Yeah. And they look, I mean, I think very simply, the First Nations people of the United States, as well as indigenous people around the world, need our help. And they need to be respected for the amount of pain and suffering that they've been through as colonialism has left its mark. So the Pine Ridge Reservation has one of the highest suicide rates in the country. They have been getting the short end of the stick for hundreds and hundreds of years.

So doing anything to help out is, I think it's something that I see as a duty and whatever I can do to help is something that I'm trying to do. So my buddy has started this nonprofit called Sage to Saddle. And it's to build basically horse riding arenas, horse facilities, so that when the incredibly long cold winters come along, the children of the Pine Ridge Reservation have a place that they can go and they can, you know, be in an environment where they can learn horsemanship, as well

as be away from some of the negative influences that might contribute whatever drugs and alcohol or bad family life, they contribute to, you know, this incredibly high suicide rate. So I'm interested in helping out First Nations, the indigenous people of any given nation, specifically in the United States, where we, I think we owe it to those people to help out in any way we can. I also saw, Ozzy, that I saw you are on the Cameo. Yes. I saw that you have over a hundred ratings on Cameo.

I feel like you must be prolific on Cameo. You know, it has been a godsend. Yeah. Cameo is a really amazing platform for me to get to interact with people as well. I think that anything from wishing your significant other a happy birthday to Mother's Day, it's just a shout out. People ask me for advice on their audition videos. Yeah.

But yeah, it has helped me so much. Cameo has been a lot of fun. So if you are looking for a shout out, anyone find me on Cameo, down to do whatever you'd like. But it's been really great. And it's kind of made me want to get back into doing some sort of entertainment in some way.

How's the garden, Ozzy? Oh, the garden is great. Yeah, I've been I like to grow plants right now. I've got you know, got a lot of cactus, but I grow poppies every year. Sometimes I grow cannabis because it's legal now. So yes, I don't have any I don't have any growing at the moment, although I probably should get some growing. I just, I love growing plants. That's one of the reasons why I have a plant on my foot.

Wow. So this is Ozzy has a like a root like growing from like his foot. Yeah. I've got roots growing up. I've got a tree, a tree of life on my leg Yeah, is that new since in the last couple of years? Have you had that? No, I had that on a game changers. I got that in Thailand I don't know like five or six years ago is it's

Sticking poke style, which is the best way to get a tattoo. Okay, I'll take your word for it. Exactly Ozzy This was so fun. Yeah, man. It was really great. It's awesome to be able to talk shop over this incredibly this just wild and crazy season. And I'm really excited. I would like to know I don't maybe you've talked about this, but I'd like to know who do you think? Who's your like, who's your pick right now of who do you think is going to win the game? Well, right now it just seems like that Tony has all the momentum. I mean, I don't know

who's going to stop him at this point. I think and I think if somebody is going to stop him, I think it's either going to be Jeremy or Sarah or whoever comes back from the edge because I'm not really seeing how Ben, Nick, Denise or Michelle are going to outflank these guys. I would agree with you. I would agree with you. And if they're going to make a move, we're talking about Michelle, Nick. And I, you know, it's sad because I think that Michelle has like, she's kind of like been playing under the radar this whole time.

And she said time and time again, how she needs to like, you know, she needs, she feels like coming into this season that she wants to show that she deserves to be there. And like, she's got to do something. She's got to do something. She's got to do something. She's got to know that she doesn't have a shot unless she starts to make some big moves.

Do you agree with what Tony said early in the season? He talked a lot about lions and hyenas of like, in this game, we got lions, we got the big targets, and then the hyenas are the small targets in the game. And he said, you know, it's not about like how good of a player you are, but how big, how big is the target on your back coming into a returning player season as somebody who would be a lion in a returning player season? Is that a real thing? I think so for sure.

And I see exactly what's going on with Nick, Denise and Michelle. You know, it's kind of like they are, you know, they don't have these big targets. So they're sort of able to like play under the radar. Nobody's really thinking about him yet. And that could get them to the end, but it's also going to be a big detriment to their game. So they got to, they really got to like step it up. And now is the time, like they can't really wait much longer. It has to, it has to come soon. Final seven. Azzy, if people want to keep in touch with you, get the book recommendations, where should people follow you? Probably Instagram is where I'm most... Instagram would probably be where I am on the most. I try to use Twitter, Instagram,

and then Cameo is like, obviously, you can have a direct link to me very easily. But I think that Twitter and Instagram are going to be the easiest places until I somehow get a website up. I know it's 2020 and I should have a website. For what? What do you need a website for? You know, just for talking about plants and surfing and science fiction books. Yeah. I feel like you could do all that on the social media. I don't know if you need the actual website to do it. Yeah, you're probably right.

Yeah. Not until you have like something that you're selling, then that's when you need the website. Everything else you could do with the social media. What? Selling my soul is not enough? something that you're selling, then that's when you need the website. Everything else you could do with the social media. What? Selling my soul is not enough? Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. When you write your book, have you ever thought about writing a book? I probably should. I don't know. Have you read Rob's book? I have it here. It's a quick read, Ozzy.

It is. I did. I think you could probably, you know, knock it out in, you know, 35 minutes, I think. Wow. Okay. Maybe I should. Maybe I should. The printed you could probably read it from across the room. Oh, God. Yeah. Boston Robb rule book for strategies for life. Hey, Ozzy smart enough. You could learn a thing or two. Okay, buddy. That's a pretty good accent. Yeah. All right. Well, Ozzy, thank you so much. I really appreciate you spending so

much time with me today. And is there any anything else you want to say about Survivor or anything else? No, that's it. You know, I'm just, I think I got to start training, you know, for maybe season 50, whatever else. Yeah, season 50. Let's wait until they at least get a season 41 schedule to film and then figure everything out from there. But I'm so glad that you decided to do this.

This was so fun for me and I hope that people got to see it. I think that there's a lot of the fans think that, oh, Ozzy, he just cares about challenges and that's it. And that's all that you would want to talk about. Yeah, it's been a great opportunity and I really thank you so much for having a platform for all of us to come back and talk about it. And this community that you've created is really special and it's really cool. So thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, Ozzie, and take care. All the best.

Okay? All right, man. Have a good one.