RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Wish List | Ep 32: Kaoh Rong with Kirsten MacInnis

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Today, Mike and Kirsten MacInnis (@kirstensaidwhat) discuss Season 32: Kaoh Rong.

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Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wishlist podcast, an offseason series that we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming returning season of survivor 50 and today we are talking about a season a cast as spicy as salt and pepper to quite literally die for as we're going to survivor co wrong the 32nd technically 31st season filmed of Survivor that came on the tail end of Cambodia. But right after a big returnee season brought even more standout characters into our lives,

including quite a number of returnees. I'm so excited to break this cast down, especially with the guest I have today. Of course, she is currently in the midst of the end game of this very heated season of love violence so i'm so happy she stepped into the heat of co wrong as well it is the great cursor mcginnis we don't need no more heat baby yeah no i'm i'm so happy to be here this season was actually because i got into survivor later

in life i don't know if people know this this was the first new player season i saw live on on tv so it's a special season to me yeah i mean it comes in the first half of 2016 uh maybe one of those times in 2016 the rare times that we look back fondly upon i have said this many times but i will keep beating this freaking drum i love survivor co wrong to me it's so interesting that we're talking about this uh in the aftermath of survivor 46 because i actually feel like there's a lot of similar dna where the cast is incredibly over the top there's a lot of conflict that exists, including, you know, some would argue that maybe the last time

we've quote unquote seen actual capital V villains on Survivor existed in this season. We saw a lot of post-merch swaps and flips and tricks happening. We saw idols go out of the game in uproarious fashion, and it all ends in a fairly controversial jury decision to crown the winner. So I understand why people might have their reservations depending on the criteria of what makes a good Survivor season to them. sticking points are of course the record number of medivacs with one sixth of the cast getting medically removed from the game as well as all the other incredibly tough circumstances around

this i mean this will be the season where following everything that happened with the heat stroke they will like mandate potable water with every survivor season moving forward to avoid that situation and then, the jury outcome. What I would say is probably the most talked-about modern jury vote in Survivor history. But for what it's worth to me, Kirsten, this is a season that has stood the test of time, even more so by finding a second life on Netflix. And I really do adore it.

Yeah, it's just so messy and like there's so many I mean there are some people on this season that I would say are real life villains with a capital V you know um like there's just such a diversity there and then you think about like this is the season when like I feel like edgic has been the most annoying in recent memory as well, because they knew immediately about Michelle. Like they just knew. And it was like Colin Stone was like leading that army. And so then me as like a new Survivor fan at the time, I was like, oh, so Edgek just always gets it right after the premiere, only to learn that that is not the case yeah very true and it's an interesting tale for the winner as well because we'll certainly get into it you have the this very unique set of circumstances to get the final three that we do where you have someone like

ty who stood out from the beginning for various reasons, but goes on to become like this major force in the game, but then does away all this social capital as he ends up getting torn morally over the coast of the post-merge. You have Aubrey, someone who struggled early on, is crying on the shelter in the first few days, but then makes people cry basically with the moves that she's able to pull off.

And then you have someone like Michelle who got a lot of that attention in particular for this era of Survivor winner editing, which is despite the fact that she never went to a tribal council in the pre-merge, we saw a little bit of her in every single episode of the pre-merge, which indicates like, huh, well, they want us to see her

and be reminded that she exists for some reason. But definitely has one of the more unconventional paths to the end compared to other people in this season. Given that she kind of becomes an odds on target from final six onwards and due to immunities and bad bladders, she makes her way to the end and gets rewarded with a win. Also should be noted that was the bladder that was involved in that one you might need to take an anatomy class no it was Joe and his pee so

no it was the meat it was the meat well no the meat was the it was the urinary part that was apparently the issue not the other no how does eating a bunch of meat impact your urine that's crazy i don't know ask uh the medical staff who were basically the 19th cast away on this season who

appeared multiple times but should be also mentioned as well survivor co wrong again is going to ping very much so in the eyes of production we're going to have a resounding four of them make up the cast of Survivor Game Changers. Aubrey's going to come back for a third time. Michelle's going to come back. But this will definitely be one of those seasons where we have to kind of weigh with the people we pick on the ballot. Okay, who are we seeing yet again

versus who are some of these diamonds in the rough that got left back in the heat of CoWrong? And are we going to try to resuscitate them much like, you know, an on his back beast mode cowboy for another chance at the game here? Who is, who is going to faint over the salt and pepper this time? We shall see,

but let's get into the salt, the pepper and the spice rack. That is survivor co wrong. And we start of course with our aforementioned final three michelle aubrey tie again i want to start with michelle here while we're sort of lingering on the topic because of course michelle as you mentioned popped for good or maybe not so good reasons depending on how you read the end game of this season ends up becoming the winner quite controversially comes back for winners at war with a secondary goal in mind of course the primary goal is two million dollars but the other one is like listen

i gotta prove to all those trolls out there that i am worthy of the crown all the way back in 2016 and listen your mileage may vary when it comes to being a survivor fan, but I would say for the most part, she did. She makes it to the final three again, an incredibly rarefied air. She has one of the highest average placements in survivor history, or she is ultimately a zero vote finalist.

So I think partially some jurors have admitted is due to the fact that there was fear on the jury that if they split the votes between Tony and Michelle, that Natalie might men on a plurality and what's interesting is that out of this cast and really out of maybe all the modern day Survivor players Michelle has had one of the longest tales when it comes to reality TV since considering that she is going into what her fifth or sixth season of the challenge as we are talking about a month before battle of the eras premieres season 40 so i guess the question is kirsten a how hungry are you to see michelle back for time number three and b do you think that she has

left the island behind in favor of a compound an arena etc on some other country in the challenge so i think like we've we've seen michelle do survivor two times she's made the final three both times winning on her first try like i just don't know like what new is she going to bring on survivor 50 right like i don't see a world where she ever really is like an early boot so i just don't think that there's like a new energy that she would bring to another survivor season especially when she's getting that like reality tv scratch itched on the challenge that like that's my kind of main reservation there is like, I don't know if there's anything else to show. Unless it's what does she just like make it to final three a third time like that?

I mean, that would be historic. Yeah, she's got to keep the streak going right now. She doesn't want to be a combo breaker. So a couple of things on Michelle, and I do see your point that it's like how much more there there is there for Michelle. Michelle. And I do see your point that it's like, how much more there there is there for Michelle. I mean, even her second season was vastly different from her first season, despite making the final three yet again, where instead of having to fight with her back against the wall from the final six onwards for Michelle, it was pretty much from the merge onwards where she is one of these people that gets caught flat footed once Wendell is booted because of this alliance that she had

with Wendell and Nick. And basically her entire post-merge narrative and something that unfortunately may have contributed to her becoming that zero vote finalist is that she's consistently on the outs of votes. Sometimes she's brought in on stuff like when Tony brings her and Jeremy in on that big Sophie vote. But otherwise, until Natalie really comes back in the game, it's tough for Michelle to really get a footing to the point where she can really prove herself in the end to the jury. I will note that Michelle is always willing to come back to Survivor. Granted, this was asked right after the reunion of Survivor 40 before she started her challenge career. But when asked if she would come back again, she responded,

Are you kidding? I will never say no if jeff calls me he doesn't even need to say a single word i'll say yes and i'll pack my bag and be ready to go so i see your point that i think this is what we talk about sometimes with the traders as well right of like if you have in your hand playing 26 to 39 days in an environment of deprivation and starvation for maybe the chance at making it to the final three again versus going to a castle in Scotland for much less that time or going to an environment where yes it's stressful but you're still relatively well fed and you have some momentum going for less amounts of time it does seem like Michelle would make an exception to

break her challenge streak to go back onto survivor when michelle like i don't keep up with the challenge that much anymore but i based on all the tweets the gamer of all of that it seems like she is a bombastic character on the challenge as well. She's in a relationship now with another challenge mainstay. The challenge will, I think, always be there. They love bringing people back. I don't think that her taking a season off to go play Survivor would

impact her ability to be like a career challenge player. So I definitely think she would I think she would say yes to pretty much any show. I don't think Michelle says no to being on reality tv now that she's kind of made that her career yeah exactly and she is also only 34 years old which is I would say used to be older on the challenge side of things is no longer now that we have lifers on and I think it's still a good age

for a survivor as well and yeah I would be intrigued to see Michelle for time number three, because we talk all the time about, okay, how do these people fare on a third, fourth, fifth, sixth time when they've experienced so many other things in their lives since their last time, be it marriage, kids, loss, gains, etc. A little bit different case for Michelle,

but also she has played like three times more reality tv seasons now than she has played with just survivor last time we saw her on winners of war she only played survivor so i would be intrigued to see if her experience on the challenge informed the way that she would play on survivor which to your point like michelle is messy on the challenge she is someone who well again is very adept for survivor feels kind of perfect for the challenge you didn't realize it until she was on it between her up until recently willingness to you know start romances start fights have hashtag michelle downs but i do agree that i think people take off from the

challenge all the time and i think while the cbs viacom merger is still solid she could take advantage of the opportunity and easily hop over to the island without needing to break any contract absolutely i do just also want to add my personal philosophy for survivor 50 returning casting is like I would prefer to see people who maybe only played once for them like for the cast I'm not super interested in third fourth fifth sixth time returnees

like I would make an exception for like Sri but other than that I know thank you yes your field last name still lives on even if it doesn't in your twitter moniker i know i took it off i was like okay this has maybe gone on too far well let's move one space to her right to the co-wrong cast member that has come back the most and someone who such an interesting sign of the times here kirstirsten. Aubrey Rocco, let's take a journey with Aubrey

because she plays on season 32 and again is one of the major forces in this game. And despite the fact that I think she is the most strategic player of the season, doesn't come without some errors. You know, we will certainly talk about how that jury decision factors into her reception, but she does do some fun, messy things like write down Julia and cross her name out and write down Peter or get rid of Debbie, who is firmly on her side at the time when she does.

But suffice it to say, Aubrey, outside of 32, was considered one of the best players to never win, was getting all that Rob narrative that honestly we hadn't seen in that ferocity probably since Coach and definitely since Russell. So it makes sense she's immediately brought back for Game Changers where her edit's a little more low-key. She's a little like Michelle in that she's left out of a bunch of votes, but she's still able to survive to the finale

where she makes it to fifth place. But the edit is definitely more understated outside of her gifable reactions of her reactions to eggs and coleslaw and then she comes back for edge of extinction which even she is sort of like admitting in the moment oh this is too soon i don't know what i'm doing here she is one of the four returning players to try out the edge of Extinction process, and she gets a whole load of it because she gets blindsided in episode five with an idol in her pocket at the very first tribal council she goes

to and spends the rest of the season mugging it up on the jury. And after that happened, for various reasons, I think a lot of us figured, okay, Aubrey's done. Between playing three times in six seasons, basically in succession,

and the fact that obviously Edge of Extinction was a pretty harrowing time for everybody. It seemed like Aubrey was three and out. But what is interesting is, very recently there was a Talking with T-Bird interview with one Aubrey Bracco. And when explicitly asked if she would play Survivor 50, she said, and I quote, I've learned that you don't say no when you're a Survivor player because people inevitably go back on the word.

But I am enjoying my life among the plants with my baby. But I'll never say no. That's today. So, Kirsten, how are you feeling about an Aubrey 4.0? I, well, I mean, I don't want anyone 4.0. But I do think she's had just like so many different variations of the survivor journey. I feel like her going back one time, was like she like she left on a peak where she could have just rested on that forever like yeah I'm one of the best to never win and

I would have won if things had been just like a little bit different and we can just leave it like that and keep that good reputation but she has this tendency it seems which i can relate to a lot of like you can't leave she can't leave well enough alone either like i feel like there's always going to be that itch where she's going to want to go back so i think there is i think there's like an okay chance of her getting asked and i i do like i think she would go i don't think she was like lying when she said oh never say no yeah i definitely agree and look what a fourth time for aubrey be a little overkill maybe but hey this is a case where i love aubrey as a character i still remember back fondly to all of her random pop culture leading confessionals you, you know, the Oregon Trail, Dying of Dysentery.

And I still use her metaphor about playing the middle and how you don't want to be caught standing in the middle of the street because you'll get run over. Yes, it has been a little diminishing returns for Aubrey, quite literally, in her placements. But I do feel like, A, this is somebody who will always bring it in terms of a character perspective. And B, maybe some time away helps, you know, that it's not just, oh, we see what Aubrey can do.

We remember Korong. Let's vote her off immediately, like we saw in Edge of Extinction. And also the fact that Aubrey has also changed a little bit in her time away. She has gotten married. She has had a child, as she mentioned. Now, look, it is quite a young child. So I wonder if she does actually get the call, if she will say it will weigh saying yes versus saying no. But right now, in this French vanilla fantasy that we live in, if Aubrey is not turning it down at the moment from a prospect perspective i will keep her in the yes realm and say that she could be someone that would be very interesting to see on time number four absolutely and her baby will be what about a year older by the time he is filming so

that maybe makes it easier. One more step to the right here, Kirsten. I want to talk about Ty Trang because I say this a lot to the point where now maybe it hasn't been as underrated as I've been reporting, but I still feel that when we look back on Survivor history, that Ty Trang is someone

that has kind of been glanced over. And maybe it's because again the two times he played we're pretty much back to back he goes from 32 to 34 but suffice it to say from the moment we saw the teaser for ko rong at the cambodia reunion and we see this like soft-spoken yet energetic vietnamese man who's years old, a gardener who's on the beauty tribe. We all cocked our heads and said, okay, this is one to look out for. And I don't think any of us expected

what we got out of Ty Trank, the man that was an idol-finding fiend between his two seasons, the one that would start a frickin' like flirtmance with beast mode cowboy of all people, somebody who would, again, conduct one of the most brutal moves in Survivor history when he decides to deny uniting the two idols

to make a super idol to Scott and Jason's face to make his way to the end and then get completely shut out. And then to come back again, where much like aubrey again it was a little more understated but still is able to fight his way despite being in the minority alliance throughout the post-merge still kind of jumps back and forth due to again him being kind of guided by his morals by his emotion finding more idols playing more idols one on sierra

don thomas two on himself and a Aubrey in the famous advantage get in, and then making it to fourth place where if Brad Culpepper makes a different decision, Ty not only makes his way to the final three, but could stand a chance of winning. So I feel like all that has kind of been obfuscated in the years since. Maybe it's because Ty himself does not really have a large social media footprint. But Kirsten, give me your thoughts on Ty on ty i mean ty is the ultimate game changer he was the first recipient of the sia award yes to the point where she marked the chicken yeah where she stopped the reunion this was not a pre-planned segment she stormed the audience saying wait a minute jeff

i have something i need to say because she was so bowled over by Ty and his animal loves well yeah and it's just like the the gameplay weighs on him right so he uses he doesn't make the super idol but he doesn't feel like great about the decision after it's made like he still feels so guilty and needs to be consoled so it's just like i don't know does he have the true killer instinct in him because ty is like a killer gamer would be compelling yeah i see that that you know do we necessarily want to see ty wringing his hands for the umpteenth time about what to do on the other hand i think there is something compelling about Ty is not necessarily just a moralistic player that is going to like sit on his coattails and say, well, I'm not going to do this because of what I believe in. The funny thing about Ty is that he says, oh, should I do this?

Should I do that? And then he usually makes the most chaotic choice as a result, right? as a result, right? That he's guided by his emotions, but as a result, it still produces exciting TV and exciting gameplay, which to me is a match made in heaven. I don't necessarily want to see

GameBot Ty because again, I think what warmed him up to so many people back in 2016 is his heart, is the love he has for things. And on the one hand, you could see or say, okay, maybe Ty is someone

that doesn't want to play again just because he realizes that there's too much backstabbing involved. We've certainly had a few players express in the years since that they don't want to go back for those reasons. But listen, again, Ty, much like his ecological footprint, has a rather small one on social media. But from what I have heard, when people have talked with him him he's still game for going back he basically feels like anytime he is asked he will go i mean again you even saw when he was on the island yes when it came to the process of voting people out maybe that was a little bit more of a big to do but like he was still being ferocious climbing trees uh throwing water on planks digging to find these idols he beat ozzy in an individual immunity

challenge he's 60 years old which yes would be on the older side but compared to some of the other people we put on this ballot is not and he's also in fantastic shape i think he still does like races so yeah i i would not be mad at all at a tie 3.0 yeah no nothing to be mad about maybe like a little bit intrigued i would be very curious to know how much he's actually keeping up with the new era of survivor and how prepared he would be for that i mean he's certainly prepared from a survival standpoint i think that he would definitely have a well-fed tribe yeah very true although maybe not right because any animals that they catch you'd be like nope put a leash on it they're our pet now yeah but he would like he'd like find the roots that can be like cooked like potatoes and like

all like he and he'd be able to climb those trees to get the good fruit and all that stuff that is very true i don't know from a liability perspective after what happened with Matthew in 44. I don't know if they let Ty climb trees anymore. Matthew wasn't like just climbing trees. He was being dumb as hell. Well, let's move on to our jury here. So working our way up, we have a Neil Gottlieb, the ice cream maker who ends up getting medevaced. Neil Gottlieb, the ice cream maker who ends up getting medevaced and in true ice cream fashion has an icy word to Michelle on the way out because he is the first juror to ever be removed from the game via a twist. We have Nick Majorano. We have the one, the only woman of many jobs, Debbie Wanner.

We have one of our capital V villains of the season in Scott Pollard. We have our teenager of the season in Julia Sokolowski. We have yet another villain in Bounty Hunter, Kyle Jason. Of course, the aforementioned man who, I don't know if he couldn't pee or couldn't poop, but something wasn't happening down there. Joe Del Campo,

one of the oldest people to play Survivor. And the person we need to start with here, Kirsten, our fallen angel, Sydney Gillen. Sydney is such a force. And I mean that in so many ways. I mean, we talk a lot about the power players that Aubrey was, that Ty was in a certain aspect,

but Sydney, in my opinion, was right up there with the person that ultimately she loses to in fire making in Aubrey where the brawn tribe is just an absolute mess to begin with in the season they get winnowed down to three and then we end up getting into this perspective that we sort of have seen in modern day seasons of like okay but these three now get brought into this war between the brawn between the brains and the beauty but then sydney decides that she's not just going to rest on her laurels here and so she helps lead the culmination of this alliance of the women plus joe plus ty a little bit to flip the game onto nick and completely change the course of things. And then that alliance obviously will guide a lot of the post-merge.

She is obviously a fiery personality full of plenty of soundbites, full of game-changing fashion, like wearing the pot lid on her head. And from a physical perspective, she is jacked. She was a bodybuilder. She is still a bodybuilder.

Sydney is somebody that has been talked about a lot as to why hasn't she been given a chance to come back and we'll certainly talk about that why in a second but even discounting that god in a perfect world i would love to see her return if i could have one person from i think any season of Survivor in the 30s on Survivor 50 it would be Sydney like I would just love to see her back again her personality is great she has the strategic chops she's so physically fit she's so likable like I just feel like she has everything that you need to be just like an amazing survivor player and when she lost the fire making that it was so dramatic like man remember how good fire making used to be when it was only in the event of a tie it was actually dramatic actually prompted it wasn't forced

like oh that like that was so dramatic and so like it was hard it was heartbreaking when sydney lost fire because she had directed so much of the game through that point and i oh my god i would give so much to see sydney play again but i i feel like she's like one of the people that has been like i don't think she wants to come back because it impacted her bodybuilding so heavily after the season. Yeah. So let's talk about that. So, again, Sydney was still is a professional bodybuilder. And yes, suffice it to say, Survivor ain't good for your muscle mass, especially when you last 37 days in the game. So when Sydney came out, it legitimately put her job in jeopardy

and she had to work incredibly hard to obviously gain back a lot of stuff that she had lost out there. And so, yeah, for a while she was definitely out of it. I believe she was asked for game changers and declined for that reason. I should note a few years ago, somebody did reach out to Sydney on Instagram and I'm getting this from Reddit asking like, Hey,

do you want to come back at all? Sydney replied. I definitely will. I just need to accomplish a few things first. Then I'm down to be on every season. So that's the good news. The good news is if it seemed like sydney was one and done and was ready to just leave survivor behind and fully embrace her career that's not necessarily

the case i think if i'm trying to read between the lines for sydney it's basically like yeah when i retire from bodybuilding then i'd want to come back for a survivor but almost in a way like michelle kirsten i do wonder if like the allure of a season like 50 could have Sydney putting down the weights and picking up a buff to rejoin the game from your lips

to God's ears I would be so like honestly people don't want to see who I'll be on social media if Sydney's on server 50 and she is young I did not realize that she was 22 during co-wrong yeah and it's well and it's tough to like anything with bodybuilding obviously that in itself takes a toll on your body with the bulking and the cutting and getting ready for competitions uh and it's like survivor is kind of the ultimate cut

where it's too much obviously so but i don't know maybe now she's a little older like she's got good skeletal muscle she'll be able to bounce back maybe she'll maybe she'll do it let me be delusional absolutely should there be a writer in her contract of like no new era shit you provide us food from the get-go or i not doing it. Where's my protein powder? It's like, yeah, maybe there's no food, but like she can have a little protein powder as a treat. Send Sydney on a journey and do the whole like Gabon temptation of, OK, you could have a clue to an idol or you could have creatine. And Sydney's like, damn, this is the hardest decision i have to make in this game she's like it's fine i'll take the creatine i can find the idol without it exactly so i do want to dash back to the person who is from this

jury a returnee from survivor and we'll talk about if we want to see her again debbie winner in a season full of characters perhaps the biggest her first confessional gave us the phrase puzzles lay down for me like lovers she was an editor's wet dream this season where every confessional she was coming back with some sort of new job be it a part-time model uh caretaker to nuns water treatment scientist server at red lobster and the editors reflected that she was intense in more ways than one and that carried over into survivor game changers where she was yet another alum to return i think most infamously was known for before liz wilcox made i'm Pissed, the new hotness. Debbie Wanner, and I would say even Sandy Bergen,

did it first with her reaction to being left off the balance beam portion of the challenge and screaming at Brad Culpepper, both in front of his face and behind his back. In both cases, Debbie ends up making it to the merge, where a couple votes in, she ends up getting blindsided by her own allies in co wrong it was aubrey and game changers it was sarah lacina kirsten what would you think about a third bullet point on the survivor resume for debbie like listen debbie it's always possible that she'll bring something new to the table you know

you do not know what she's going to do she is i feel a wild card you know charlie charlie day style uh and like maybe you do want some elements of chaos coming into a big season like 50 obviously if it's all game bots that's kind of boring but i don't know if debbie needs to be one to do it yeah i i go back and forth because i could definitely see her back if only for i just want another dose of the debbie weirdness i mean this was somebody that again at the time was regarded as one of the most ridiculous characters in survivor history we should have known with the freaking choice of bathing suit, Kirsten, which is staring me in the face right now.

I feel like its eyes are following no matter where I move on the screen. For what it's worth, Debbie does want to come back. She's 58 years old currently, but she did say when she did talking with T-Bird back in like 2020, 2021, that she would play again. Though she has admitted, if you talk about whether or not a tiger bathing suit can change its stride, she does say that as she's gotten older,

she's realized what her body needs in that moment. So maybe it would involve her getting a little less aggro, particularly when it comes to the physical department. Maybe no more chin-ups on tree branches to show off her physical prowess. Yeah, just absolutely wasting the energy that you have when it's not required. chin-ups on tree branches to show off her physical prowess so yeah just wait absolutely wasting the energy that you have when it's not required I I just feel like I she got so mad and also so bitter on both of her seasons and I'm like uh I feel like there's people who

can fill that kind of weirdo spot that bring more of like a sportsman like energy to the season you're saying she's not a good sportsmanship man maybe maybe don't tell her I said that though well on that note shall we talk about the tag team duo of Scott and Jason first off let me let me ask you kirsten uh as a former person that was personified as a demon-like creature in her stint on reality tv what what's your take on the villain discourse do you feel that scott and jason are quote-unquote the last villains we've seen on survivor or or do you think we've seen more shades of it in the new era okay i don't know if they're the last villains that we've seen but i think that they might be the last villain duo that were so viscerally disliked like i don't i don't know if anyone was like standing Scott and Kyle Jason. I maybe I'm just like not remembering it because I didn't like them,

but like just the way they talk to people, the way they talk to women, it was just ugly. And I know that obviously, you know, I was portrayed as literally the devil on national television. And but if you look back, first of all, that was like four hours of footage that they clipped into a three minute video. But if you look at the things I'm saying, it's like I'm vindictive.

I'm manipulative. I want to win. None of the things that I said could be stretched to be actually like real life problematic and yet scott and jason had a lot of that footage available for the producers to use like if you don't suck in that way they can't portray you in that way you know i mean i don't know dan foley might have a different argument but i completely agree with you well I don't agree with Dan Foley well I do think that yeah to your point particularly the treatment of Alicia that they had in the pre-merge

is something that I think even looked worse upon nowadays there was certainly stuff like you know you talk about them being personified as sore losers not even arguably in their jury vote, but even after the Nick vote, they're doing things like pouring water on the fire, hiding the axe and the machete, clearly trying to go down the Russell path, but less so about

I'm going to mind control that I've been more so out of vindictiveness. I mean, I will talk about from a realistic perspective,ott underwent a huge health scare in the past few years he contracted a virus in 2021 that actually required a heart transplant which went successfully yeah it went successfully a few months ago so he is recuperating and doing well but i think suffice it to say from a health perspective he probably would not be liable to go back i know they wouldn't they can't have someone who's on like immune suppressants for a transplant on survivor i don't think that would be safe so yeah that was interesting scott on the rarefied list of athletes that have played survivor as well we forget former

basketball player i will say i co-sign everything you said i I am intrigued by a Kyle Jason return. No, see, for me, I'm like, if Scott could play, I would rather see him than Kyle Jason, because I feel like, it's like, you know how they talk about, like, the percentage of, it's like, okay, 10% of people will do, like, the absolute worst thing 100% of the time. Like, 10% will do the absolute right thing, like, 100% of the time. Like, that 80 in the middle will go along with whoever has influence. I feel like Scott maybe was more so going along with the influence and he

could, he would have more dimension to show. I don't know that bounty hunter Kyle Jason is bringing any new energy to the table. See what I find interesting is that I almost feel the opposite where after Scott was gone it's almost like the uh the childhood metaphor where like if you separate the two boys that feed into each other's energy like I wouldn't say that Jason completely turned from one face to another overnight but it does feel like he acted a little differently he actually had this moment in his boot episode where he goes on the reward, I think it was a zoo or a monkey sanctuary,

and he talks about his daughter. I would say that Jason might be one of the more complicated portrayals of a villain, at least recently in Survivor. Also should mention, this is for good and maybe not so good when it comes to his chances of returning. I don't know if you know, Kirsten, Kyle Jason has also gotten into bodybuilding lately oh what okay i look at me i'll google him

right now yeah so i think cindy actually um may have given him a bit of a helps which maybe shows that time heals all wounds considering that if you remember those ponderosa videos him and scott were not kind to cindy whatsoever but yeah, Jason is jacked at this point. So maybe it's the exact same case with Sidney of like, would he want to jeopardize his now newfound career doing a show of deprivation like Survivor? Or maybe he'd also be someone to kind of drop everything. I know he's done a couple of those like Durham Warriors challenges as well. So not to say that I'd be intrigued to see how people would feel about a Kyle Jason return.

He's somebody that I would put on like my fifth or sixth placement when it comes to listing out the people I want back from this season. But he's also someone I would not be surprised if depending on how the crowd responds to him, if we come back to the wild cards in, you know, a couple of weeks from now that he could be somebody that could get added onto the ballot i don't think he'd be asked jeff said no more villains and i think that jason clearly falls under that list of people that jeff is like nope

we're done with that how about julia sokolowski and it's odd because i think you look at this cast and you're like oh yeah julia was there but a number of things first she played when she was 19 freaking years old something that had gotten uh done in previous seasons of course natalie tenorelli you had frosty you had spencer from token sheens but for a while really until like michael yerger came along i feel like julia was given the label of one of the best teenagers to play the game, where was she maybe as memorable and stuck out as much as the people she surrounded herself with in Scott, in Jason, even Michelle to a certain extent? No. But I feel like there

was something there there with Julia that maybe might have been tamped down due to A, the personalities around her, B, the position she was in, and C, the fact that she was playing when she was 19 freaking years old. So I'm intrigued, Kirsten, from your perspective, would you be interested in another appearance from Julia? I think Julia might be one of the more intriguing prospects for a return, because how old is she now?

So she is, let's see julia sokolowski is 28 years old yeah like the amount of growth that you go through just as a person between 19 and 28 i guess like 29 by the time 50 would be filming like that's a different person right and if she was compelling enough at 19 to get cast on reality tv i can't imagine the adventures she's had since and the new perspective she could bring to a season like it would be just such an interesting dynamic because i feel like even at you know 19 years old she definitely had strategic chops. She was making some moves. She was doing her best to play the game. She wasn't just there by any means.

And I just think it'd be very interesting to see how she played as a full adult, not just a legal adult. Yeah, well, you are not the only one who feels that way. In her quarantine questionnaire, when asked if she would play again she said yes i drop everything and leave right now if the opportunity presented itself i've wanted to play again since the moment jeff stuffed my torch lately more than ever before i've been itching for another shot i'm turning 25 in april so maybe it's a quarter-life crisis thing i have grown up a lot since i played i have more to prove i'm so grateful for my co-running experience but genuinely hope my survivor story isn't over yeah I do think she could get lost in the shuffle though

that's the thing is that uh listen we are certainly and we are past the era of like okay let's fill our cast with young hot women so Julia definitely feels like a little bit uh sticking out from that but I'd be intrigued to see how she would do in a fan vote because i think that like real ogs get her but i'm not sure especially when you look again at the cast of ko wrong if she's necessarily that things to the front of mind outside of who were some of the best people to play when they were teenagers she could have some kelly wentworth upside too oh absolutely let's uh dote upon the other members of the jury here first off i do not think joe del campo would be able to play again he is 81 years

old at this point which i think makes him maybe the second oldest still alive survivor contestant so i i think he's gonna play joe could play all right don't say that to rob think about how absolutely jacked joe is as like an older person like he is physically fit as long as his like mental acuity is still there which like 81 is not like the oldest person in the world like actually i feel like that to tell that to the american voter well no but there's okay there's a difference prince um but it's also like i feel like you meet you know where they're like 70 but they read as like oh that's like an old person even though it's like not as old and then there's some people where you're like that person's 91 and they seem younger like there's just like so many different things go into how much like

mental acuity physical fitness like agility and all of that you have once you're older that it's like tough to have a blanket statement of that and again we're talking about playing a game on reality tv not like running a country so it's a little bit of a different discussion i think um but like depending on how together he his life is at this point in time which like there's a wide range of how that could be i'd be putting an old man that's fun what about our final two jurors here nnn nick and neil's infamous playlist uh any interest in seeing either one of them back um i feel like nick could be in to see just how he is like i feel like nick is very much like lovable douchebag vibes. And in the words of Brian Scali, and I've,

I've never met Nick Mairano personally, but I've heard he's like one of the absolute nicest survivors that you can meet. He is. I can attest to that. Yeah. Yeah. That could certainly treat him well.

I don't know what he, what's he up to these days. Do we know? I mean, he doesn't really have any social media presence. Last time I checked, he may be married and, or with a child. he up to these days do we know i i mean he doesn't really have any social media presence last time i checked he may be married and or with a child i may be completely making this up i know he was a manny for a little bit yes that was that was his job when he was on korong correct or like a little

bit after it what about neil i think you know he was one of the larger strategic forces definitely a more expressive brain on the brains tribe alongside aubrey gets medevac with an idol in his pocket at the merge and then makes an impression on the way out with the ice cream pants as he uh basically tells michelle you will rue this decision uh and she didn't so interesting with that i feel like my perspective on Neil like during CoWrong is I felt like more positive towards him and over time my opinion has only dropped I can't even remember the reason why but I feel like I had like a weird social media interaction with him and like he's just like said some stuff where I was like never never mind. Like, this is unnecessary. I don't think he would feel like an archetype need on Survivor 50.

Like, would I be rioting if he was there? No, like, it's whatever. He could be there, I guess. But I would never be like pushing for him. All right. What do you think? Yeah, I don't know. I liked him in the moment and he's definitely

somebody that i wouldn't be completely unhappy if he came back because he definitely showed that again he has the capacity to strategize he can find idols but also like he can bring the mess if need be that yes were his words a little too aggro to michelle on the way out yes but like it did create some fun fire and he also was facing this rather unprecedented situation of oh you think you made the jury where this other person won an advantage and therefore you can't be on the jury anymore so i think he had a right to be a little steam maybe not to the point of like calling her what like a puppy suckling at the teat or whatever animal-based metaphor that he ended up using i thought that i think maybe neil's chance to return could have been something like Game Changers

or if they invoke some sort of like second chance this season in the 30s. So, you know, I wouldn't, he would not be on my personal short list, but I also would not be surprised if there are people in the comments saying like, oh, I always liked him and would want to see him back. Well, yeah.

And I think that that also raises an interesting point just about Ko Rong in general, like where it lies in the, you know, seasons of Survivor. There have been returning seasons since then. A lot of people from this season have returned. And so to have not returned and also not been asked, like we know Sydney was asked and declined, but like we would know if neil had been asked right and he would have taken the opportunity so i feel like the people who haven't been asked at all it might be a slim chance for them to actually come back all right well let's finish off with our pre-mergers here working our way up from the beginning to the end we have of course mr brown trout himself darnell hamilton

we have the woman that brought a new definition to earworm in jennifer lanzetti we have the first brain cast out uh who again you talk about the wildness of co wrong the first brain vote if you remember was like almost a coup of the power couple of peter and liz liz markham the first voted out from the brain Tribe. We have Caleb who with no offense to Russell Swan or Mike Scoopin maybe came the close to actually dying on Survivor. It is still like I don't want to

say it's one of my favorite moments but it is still like one of the moments I still think about in Survivor because we oftentimes don't think about the voluminous crew that's behind the scenes. Survivor really is an iceberg and that moment crew that's behind the scene survivor really is an iceberg and that moment where the fourth world drops and it really is all hands on deck because everyone is just going down is an absolutely wild moment of television we have the mental giant

herself alicia holden who is the scrappy underdog of the brawn tribe that finally gets cast out we have our swap screwed beauty in the form of poker former poker player anna kate and we have dr obama himself peter believe it or not peter was apparently in talks it for game changers at some point i mean i can i i can see that like at the time there was very much a lot of discussion of like the peter liz duo and the damage of like what could have been had they not been you know cut down when they were uh it's like i i'm not surprised that he would have been in discussions for game changers but the fact that he didn't make it in and then so much has happened since i feel like it's like a slim, slim to none chance for Peter.

So focusing on some of these other people, I would imagine like Kirsten, you are a longtime Big Brother fan. First off, what were your thoughts on Caleb's crossover? And do you want to see a third time out of him where maybe he'll make it past day nine this time? I okay as a Big Brother fan and as a live feed watcher I know more about Caleb than I would ever want to know like his behavior on Big Brother was crazy and the fact that that was rewarded

with a return on another show literally never understand obviously there's something to be said for someone who's willing to literally die over salt and pepper for the rice like stand um obviously there's something to be said for someone who's willing to literally die uh over salt and pepper for the rice like i don't know like to me that shouldn't pass the psyche if you're that like willing to you know go for it i i can see why survivor only watchers would maybe be interested in seeing more Caleb and,

and think, Oh, maybe there's more to his story. I've seen enough Caleb to last several lifetimes. And I think for me, it's a matter of you bring him back for game changers. It makes, it made sense why we saw him back.

Yes. The theme might not have made sense for him outside of him changing the rules for providing mandatory water bottles, but also like this was a guy who hadn't gone to tribal council before he was medevaced and so we wanted to see what he would do in the game and it was fine he got voted out at the swap when ty ends up joining up with the majority to vote him out and so now it's like all right we had that box checked it's sort of like russell swan for me we've seen what we need to see from caleb i i am fine leaving him in the past i think out of this group again much

like this cast it is certainly full of a lot of characters that go out in colorful fashion i think the person i would be most intrigued to see get a second chance would be alicia uh just because a the treatment of her was so so tough and b she did contain some very fun moments i mean remember the first vote she casts in the season she does with the cap still on the marker i forgot about that um yeah alicia's fun i liked her energy i didn't understand why she was so you know hated by her tribe and treated so poorly uh so i i would love to see her get another opportunity there like i like that to me is along the same lines as like some of the people that were added to the ballot from like token genes it's like that same type of slot whereas i don't know if

if she would get picked if it was like between those people but it'd be fun i wouldn't be mad about it any other highlights from this pre-merge group um well the fact that jenny literally had a bug in her ear and isn't one of the medivacs of the season is crazy to me like i what a wild premiere that they did that extended close-up on her hair i mean that might have been a moment where Survivor fans were most inclined to turn off the show just because that might have been the grossest thing in Survivor history.

Like, I didn't even know that could happen. And so that, to me, was horrifying. But I think Darnell getting a second chance would be very fun. I would really like to see it. So I'll put that out there. Yeah, I think, again, there's definitive, like, top five or six first boots in terms of memorability.

But I would put Darnell up there because the guy had a lot of character. You know, he was a postal worker on the Braun tribe, and he showed in subsequent podcast appearances that he was on the show for a reason. It was just a bad hand that was dealt between like the goggles being lost during the challenge. being lost during the challenge. I would also say maybe in the moment there would have been a case to bring back Anna Kate because again, this was someone that was set up really well on Beauty Tribe 1.0 before the swap happened. Anna has gone in a very different direction

since her time on the show that I think would absolutely preclude her from getting brought back. Well, I mean, I think the FBI shouldn't allow her to leave the country I'm pretty sure like gotta go no thanks well let's go from an FBI most wanted list to our own personal wish list here yes oh this is so tough Kirsten I still want to keep things relatively regimented and bring back and most for people today. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people

in the comments saying, put this person on, put that person on. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but it's our job today to pick three, but I would imagine four people that you would want to see on the ballot. Why don't you start by giving me a name that you feel most locked in on? Sydney, period.

Yep, I completely agree with that so sydney it's on the ballot sydney 31 years old yeah i i would make a case honestly for any of the top three if not all of the top three and it's tough because i think you brought up some really salient points about why we've seen each one of them come back and how we wouldn't want to necessarily see them come back for time number three or time number four but god it's tough for me because like i do think all three of them had really fun showings in co wrong i think you know a couple of them had some interesting stuff going on in their subsequent seasons michelle obviously did a lot of stuff in Winners at War

and especially on the challenge that I think there would be reason to see them back. And I think there is still like a little bit of a Q rating and not the player, but sort of the popularity within the fandom for those top three. So I'm having trouble about like what I want to put all three on, what I want to slot somebody else in lieu of them. Nah,ate if all three of the final three are gonna end up on this ballot i think at least two of them need to make it at the when you add a bunch more with rob at

the end like i don't like if we're putting four on i don't want three of them to be the final three that to me is boring you don't want to do the top four i will say the top four is one of my favorite top fours in survivor history they're they're a great top four and I'm not trying to be like negative about them or that oh I wouldn't want to see them I just think like if we're adding the top four three of whom have already returned at least once I just think that's boring for a wish list I think like for a wish list it should be more aspirational like blue sky desires I think if for a wish list, it should be more aspirational, like blue sky desires. I think from the final three, if we have to add one, I think I want to add Ty because at least Ty is adding that like older queer man perspective to the season that brings something a little bit different. Like, I don't think there's been another player who fits the same slot as ty so at least that is unique okay so then you would want to put

michelle you would want to leave both michelle and aubrey offers they're one is that crazy that's pretty damn crazy from both on survivor co wrong was michelle versus aubrey and you said neither i will like but we've seen them like they've they've done it so much like i think it's so much like more compelling for survivor 50 to be bringing in kind of like the wild cards we're like we don't know what julia would do or alicia would do like i i don't know. I can be persuaded, but I feel like if we're putting four people on the list, all four of them were in the final four. That's just boring.

Well, I think what we could do is maybe as a bit of a compromise, we could pick one of them, say that probably the other one will get voted on. And then we could add like someone like a Julia or an Alicia on for a fourth spot. If you're, if you're up for that. Okay. I can go, I can compromise who, okay. If you have to pick between Aubrey and Will who are you picking Mike no don't

put me this on me it's your restriction we have to but we'll both talk about it like who would you pick I think Michelle is the more likely one Aubrey is the one I'm more interested in seeing Aubrey's life has changed more yes than she was on Survivor so that could be interesting Michelle is like so good on TV though I know do you want the Twitter stand saying that Michelle you didn't put Michelle on the wish list I would rather put Michelle on than Aubrey. Can we wait? But Kay, now people are going to be mad. Now we've reopened the Michelle Aubrey debate for 2024. There we go. This is what we've done with our lives.

I don't care. It's fine. We can put, I'm happy to have either of them on it because I'd be happy to see either of them on Survivor 50 if they are going to put people who've played, you know, more than two times on. Okay. So then now we're sort of back where we started, right?

Yeah. Do you want to be in the top four? Do you want to add someone else on? Okay. I'm not making decisions because people on Twitter are going to be mad at me because of the decision I made. I'm not scared of Twitter, okay? Because guess what?

I got that block button, baby. If you're rude to me, you're blocked. And I've got the moderator control on the RHAP YouTube channel. So if you're mean in the comments, I'm deleting it. I don't care. Let's do Michelle, though. Let's do Michelle. I just think that she's more likely to be there.

And so it makes sense to have her on the ballot. All right. So we will throw Michelle on there. And then for a fourth one, would you want to do Julia? Would you want to do Alicia? How old's Alicia now? Alicia is,

Alicia is 32 years old. Interesting. I would probably do Julia above Alicia personally. I think that Julia maybe would be more likely because I feel like Jeff would love to be asking her questions of like how is it different from being a teenager?

Yeah. So we'll put Julia on. So the four people placed on the list, Michelle Fitzgerald, 34 years old, Ty Trang, 60 years old, Sydney Gillen, 31 years old, Julia Sokolowski, 28 years old. And look, I imagine it's going to be an inevitability

that Aubrey is going to get put on the ballot as well. So she's going to be there anyways. So let me have fun. Yeah. Unless we've done this before with Wenworth if we want to uh maybe I'll punt Aubrey to the edge of extinction podcast and if there's not enough spots maybe Aubrey will be on there as well so those are the four last thing I want to ask Kristen as we always do is there someone from this season you would want to see

on another reality show and usually I'll prompt the guests for this but I I have something percolating in my mind that I would like to throw out because you are the curator of our hot dummies on island coverage here on RHAP should Alicia be on one of these shows oh okay I think Alicia would be fun but I almost the the problem with these hot dummies shows is they they tend to cast people like 24 and under so she would be like the quote-unquote old lady on the show i think that could work you know everything's a sliding scale or maybe i don't know just love is blind does that tend to have older yeah on it love is blind skews a little bit older so i could see a universe where she does the love is blind to perfect match pipeline and that could be very fun yeah i think she could find someone that absolutely loves that

lip tattoo that she has that i forgot that lip tattoo is probably gone mike those don't last because your cell turnover in your mouth is so much faster than the rest of your body it's probably gone unless you got it redone i'm learning so much about biology today from kirsten mckenna's i don't even remember what her uh what her tattoo says uh i forgot that existed and you talk about her being a game changer i believe uh lindsey from survivor 42 got the number 42 tattooed on her lip as well okay uh that's such a 2009 decision to make that's so wild listen everything old is new again well this podcast is now tattooed on the feed much like it was on alicia's lip it'll be maybe it will stand the test of time on no cellular regeneration when it comes to this so maybe some cellular additions in the form

of who knows Aubrey Kyle Jason Alicia I'm sure people will have their thoughts and response to this dynamite cast Kirsten you were absolutely dynamite as well thank you so much for coming on what would you like to plug for the listeners out there because I believe at the time this is coming out we are barreling down at the end of Love Island yes we are first of all thank you for having me this was fun um currently this is coming out right before the love island usa finale where myself and brian scally have been breaking that down twice per week on the hot dummies on islands podcast it has been such a good season we just found out like the day that we're recording this we just found out that love island viewers doubled from last season to this season for Love Island USA.

So get on board. Jump on the bandwagon. It's very good. The season has been amazing. No skip episodes. They've all been bangers. So yeah, check that out on the Hot Temes on Islands podcast. And then myself and Sasha Joseph have a weekly pop culture celeb gossip gossip, trending topics podcast called mess magnets that you can come check out to

find out, you know, maybe you see a tweet, you don't know what's going on. We'll like, we will explain what's going on in the, in the zeitgeist to y'all. And you can follow me everywhere at Kirsten said,

what including twitch.tv slash person said, what doing some research? I'm pretty sure that Alicia Holden's lip tattoo said audacious on it okay i mean like lip tattoos had their moment i feel like 2009 was when the cobra starship album hot mess came out and the album art was a girl with like the tattoo that's a hot mess in her inner lip and it was like very much in like the pop punk scene at that time so i'm just like so weird to think of that existing outside of that place and time well we will move on through time as we'll be taking a break for the weekend as we always do

but monday we will be back with a hell of a follow-up season to survivor co-wrong survivor millennials versus gen x ch X Kristen I'm intrigued from your perspective what Millennials or Gen Xers would you want to see on the ballot for Survivor 50 oh Millennials versus Gen X is so good I okay I feel like I actually just want to even like look at the cast list quick damn there's so much that's gonna be a hard one that's gonna be a hard one to get the ballot because there's so many good people like the those first like four boots are so shameful that i like want all those people to get a chance to come back like oh that's a good pod it's gonna be it's gonna hopefully be a good pod and it'll be a tough time with myself but i'll have

a fantastic co-host to do it with. Allie Lasher will be joining me on a Monday to add people to the list for Survivor Millennials versus Gen X. That's going to do it for this podcast and this week of the Survivor 50 wishlist. Let us know, of course, your thoughts in the comments and who inevitably from this season will be

added to the ballot to join Michelle, Ty, Sydney, and Julia on the Surviv survivor 50 fan vote ballot. Thank you all so much for listening. Hope everybody has a great weekend until next time. Take care. Bye-bye.