RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Wish List | Ep 34: Game Changers with Rob Cesternino

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Today, Mike and Rob Cesternino (@robcesternino) discuss Season 34: Game Changers.

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Companion, only in theaters January 31st. Hi everybody and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wishlist podcast, an offseason series. We're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming season of Survivor 50. Here we are talking about the last non-winner returnee season of Survivor, period. And who knows, maybe Survivor 50 will be the next instance of that so we're on paper we'd have a lot to look back on in terms of who are the people they brought on and what was the general theming that they use that's the good news the bad news is it happens to be survivor game changers what i would say is one of the oddest themes not only only in Survivor history. The oddest was Blood vs. Water. Maybe it was close, though. A few years off.

But in reality TV history in general. But, of course, I'm not alone. That melodious voice you just heard is someone who has been joining me for a good amount of these returning seasons. Actually, though, not since All-Stars. We had Steven come on for Heroes vs. Villains. We had Peridium on for Cambodia. But Rob Cicernino, it was your turn again at the ship wheel

because there is a shipwreck theme to Game Changer, something maybe we should have saw as a bit of a sign in hindsight. But here we are, Game Changer to the medium itself, talking about Survivor Game Changers. Yeah, Mike, thank you for having me back. Very fun to get to talk about all this stuff with you again. Again, incredible job that you've been doing what a fun uh summer it's been to go through all of this and you know looking back uh as like we've talked about like uh you know my survivor uh career earlier and we got into that certainly more in survivor all-stars um looking back i do think that my best chance to ever play a third time i think was

here in this season survivor game changers okay so i'm so glad you mentioned this because i didn't want to necessarily put the cart before the horse too much but in in the research I do, especially with these returning seasons, what we like to do is go through the cast, talk about what was sort of the mood at the time, why were these people picked, etc. And then I usually like to go through a list that at least the Reddit detectives have compiled as to people that

were considered or cut, declined. I happen to see that on a list of people considered for survivor game changers that allegedly one rob sesternino declined the offer can you confirm or deny this yeah i can confirm it so um it was i think so i remember uh it was probably like january 2016 right because it would have filmed that summer in 2016 they called me and

my younger son Anthony had just been born in November of 2015 and they called me and you know Steven had just come off of playing on Survivor Second Chances and they just had steven back

and uh like i had to run into like a survivor producer and and i remember them saying to me like hey we got fish back you we're getting we're gonna get you like okay it's like okay it's time to time to pants both the know-it-alls and had his pants around his ankles for a lot of right so it's like okay sure and I think that that was at a point where you know like any future

reasons why that survivor production might have been not as happy with Rob as a podcast hadn't happened yet and so it really feels like that that would have been, I think they were like, as we'll talk about maybe grasping for straws on some people. And so,

uh, they called me. It wasn't like, Hey, this is a sure thing. Uh, but they did call me and I, and I kind of feel like had I thrown my hat in the ring and said,

yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'm in that. I really think that this was probably, if it was ever going to happen, I think game changers was probably going to be it. When you were given the call,

were you told any information as to what the theme might be? Or was it just an availability? Yes or no. Just an availability of that. They were doing. So I, again, I really don't remember that they were doing another all, I really don't remember that they were doing another All-Stars and I don't remember much more than that.

I don't know what what I thought at the time it was going to be or even leading up to it. What what they you know, like I feel like that second chances had been so popular. I think they were looking to do bring people back again. And that, and that was that. And so, yeah, my son was two months old.

My wife would have killed me. We really, you know, it's been a challenge where we don't live close to a lot of family. And so, you know, we really have, you know,

just like, you know, when our kids are young um you know we really did not have a lot of help and you know nicole was working at the time like it's just like i i do not know how we could have pulled it off yeah the stars weren't necessarily aligned and i'm sure also in the moment i mean we're going to talk about this that they do a returnee season a year and a half after doing a previous returnee season and so at that pace you probably think and especially the way the 20s were going right

where you basically had some form of returnees in so many of these seasons back to back you think oh yeah there will probably be another chance to get ass back on whether it be a hybrid newbie returnee or maybe even an all returnee and then we see where the rest of the 30s go i think when the number what i have said in the past is don't lose my number but uh i think that was uh a pass for me well let's talk about this season in general people that did go exactly because what i do mike may i because this is a season do you have another hat that you're gonna pull out no we've we've brought back many uh legends uh to the game and so to honor another a true legend oh my god how many several of dollars did he pay you to do that got some i got some jelinski merch recently okay nice is your first time repping it on pod? Yep.

Yep. All right. Well, the Jelinski is the limit when it comes to what makes a game changer. And yeah, I mean, especially looking at the meta of all this, we are at a time in Survivor at the point where this is occurring, where when something works for the show, they almost immediately repeat it. Kagaian works.

So they do basically it's spiritual sequel in World Apart and then it's a literal sequel in Korong Blood vs. Water works so they do it immediately again in San Buen Del Sur Cambodia was a big deal I talked about this with Peridium it was despite the fact that we had so many

despite Peridium said it's overrated exactly though I think he even said at one point that overrated can still mean if I think it's number five and you think it's number one I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, peridium's point which is a good one i feel like that the ones that hold up better on a rewatch are probably uh ones where there are more like personality and comedic moments as opposed to

uh ones that are more game game game yeah right where you know the outcome you're sort of looking for the things that you might not remember uh and so i think that the show was looking to strike while the iron is hot and say oh my god well this all returning season which we hadn't done since heroes versus villains went so so well let's go back to the well immediately and as a result we get survivor game changers and we talk about this all the time especially with these themes in the 20s and especially with the themes we're going to get into in these seasons coming up in the 30s when themes still existed that for the vast majority of survivor they are going to cast first and then basically figure out a theme from there and sometimes it relates to the cast and sometimes it doesn't nowhere is that more clear to be candid

than survivor game changers and it was quite a treat rob to go through some of the pre-season stuff where my my heart goes out to jeff probst to a certain extent of him just really trying to spin some straw into gold and explain why certain people who were brought on for one reason or another define a game changer. Game Changers probably was a weak title for the season. Going back to when we did the top 40 countdown during 2021, I did a podcast with a future survivor, Asia Welch, and then Grace Leder. We did this for Survivor Game Changers.

I think on that podcast that we were looking at the people like, what should the theme of this been? And I think it was inspired and I stand by it. Survivor Game Changers should have been called legends and losers. Yeah. I mean, that was a little bit of what they were working with and we saw a bear out a bit with the casting though. They didn't go all the way as I think the rumor was that it was supposed

to be like people who made the merge and the jury versus pre-mergers. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I had not ever heard that, but I feel like that you have like some, like the, some of the all-time greats like you could cast a legend season with half the people that are there and the other half are wtf how did they why are they even in a second season of

survivor so that's interesting because what i would say is I could understand, as we'll get into some of the picks, like why in a blanket returnee season they would get brought back. Either they had made an impression for one reason or another on a recent season, or maybe as we consistently speak about on these returnee season podcasts, they check a certain aesthetic box that casting always likes to go for. casting always likes to go for it's just again i talked about this as well with steven right that we were speaking about when it comes to putting someone like candace on heroes versus villains it's less so about the label of oh candace is one of the five greatest heroes or villains that's a woman in survivor history and more so hey we want to see candace back and you just throw her on the season and then just sort her wherever it was uh it's also interesting because there was also a good amount that was talked about behind the scenes about how the casting for this season i mean it is far and away the widest net that survivor will cast with its cast to your point

we are having so many different odds and ends of survivor represented all under the skies of what makes a game changer which i think like Jeff kind of described as like some people have made big bold moves some people have played more subtly it's basically whatever you want to make of it but that they have either changed the game or the game

has changed them maybe in some way shape or form and the result we get is mixed in God bless Jeff like he's gonna he's gonna try you know he's never gonna like listen whatever just like he's gonna really try to spin

it yeah and I think especially there was a lot of talk including from Jeff himself at the time about how CBS and Survivor maybe we're not seeing eye to eye in some regards when it came to casting. Of course, the big story that Jeff has told before is that CBS was the one that was really pushing to bring Ozzy back for a fourth time. Jeff didn't necessarily need to see it.

Jeff was talked in the preseason being like, Ozzy just can't win. Like he has this this something in his head, this break from actually being able to win the game. And so i think he was fine kind of like writing ozzy off into the sunset after south pacific and then but was there a post script to that was he uh did he then say that but then he was glad that they brought him back yes which is one reason why ozzy ultimately made the wish list is that he does come back and say i was wrong i am so glad that ozzy was on this season uh there was that it may not reflect that i mean on the other hand jeff Jeff said that we had to really push CBS to put Jeff Varner back on the show.

So the results we get are this cast of a survivor game changers, which as we'll get into, yeah, run the gamut from people from season seven all the way through to season 33. And, you know, it's definitely something that they were trying to infuse the theme into as well. This is, of course, as we found out very recently on one of our Summer of Survivor podcasts, the season where you can't tie the bow without it going to rocks. It's not no more.

I really forgot about that. They were trying to create kind of like a hyper gamey returnee season on the level of Survivor Cambodia. And listen, I think from a certain respect, they did. I think we've talked about before how Sarah Lucina ends up playing a very impressive game, especially in the post-merge. But I think a lot of that is largely obfuscated

from a bit of what are we doing here aspect when it comes to a lot of this season, unfortunately. Yeah, can't wait to get into it. All right, well, let's do it, shall we? Let's get into the cast of survivor game changers and i divided it up a little bit into in true game changers fashion a bit of odd hats here that we are going to try on at the haberdasher okay exactly not odd us odd hats i'm going to start with our pre heroes versus villains returnees, which represent four,

represent two winners and two returning favorites. We have, of course, Sandra Diaz-Schwein coming back for the first time since Heroes vs. Villains, which is a little surprising. I think a lot of us at the time were saying, like, Sandra, you're two for two right now. Why press your luck? But what I think is interesting is that

if you look back, Rob, I think a lot of people may have gone higher on Sandra's game after watching her in Game Changers. Yeah Sandra's Game Changers season I really feel like that it's a season where while the

results like did not go her way like I feel like that it's a season that only enhances her legacy especially for you know a two time winner to come back and go out pre-emerge you probably right say oof but I feel like that just the uh very aggressive game that Sandra ends up playing here I think that some people uh could argue that it ends up being some of Sandra's finest work it's a little bit kind of like Ethan in Survivor All-Stars,

where it's not the winning game. And I think that Sandra even shines here more than Ethan does in Survivor All-Stars. But it's a very bold game, which is really going to sort of end up being this new second version of Sandra that we see post the anybody but me era sandra yeah that's the thing is i think post heroes versus villains despite having two million dollars to her name i think a lot of people regarded her gameplay as largely passive and sandra's gameplay

from here on out has been incredibly active that yes she is someone that will sit back and like let things come to her to your point anybody but me but it definitely seems like and maybe it's because now that she knows she has this target on her no matter what right then now she has nowhere to hide she has officially become a legend the first two-time winner in survivor history she knows she has to get out in front rather than have the cars back her over and And so we see her immediately start getting out Tony. We see her do the whole sugar sabotage to pit JT and Mikayla against each other.

It is, and this is like, you know, saying a lot for Sandra. One of Sandra's most entertaining games from this season, even though she does last half the season. Of course, next to her is Seri returning also. No, Sandra's coming back for a third season sari and ozzy will be our two four timers here what are your thoughts about them i mean ozzy as mentioned before has one of his i would say most eventful seasons in like him leading

this savaii tribe getting voted out twice and then returning twice and going out as the fallen angel were you surprised to see him back for a fourth time on game changers i don't think i was surprised to see ozzy end up uh coming back i think game changers itself is probably ozzy's uh least eventful season or in a way his uh four times playing the game But I think that at this point in time, I think that this was probably like a coup to have Ozzy back for the first time since South Pacific.

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She does get idled out by the fourth person we're going to talk about, basically, in heroes versus villains. But I do think she is one of these people, and I think, again, this is why it makes the discussion so fruitful and has been since 2017. Is that like when you think game changer, you think somebody like Seri Fields.

Yeah, this was a great spot for Seri to end up coming back. Of course, you know, Seri has the iconic games in Panama and then again in Micronesia. And then, you know, has the one that doesn't go her way in Heroes vs. Villains. And so I think it was probably important to Survivor and important to Ceri to give her like that chance to that not have that be the game that she goes out on where she goes out just a couple episodes into the season. So she ends up here and has such an interesting

unique game. I don't think she goes to tribal council before the merge. And that's really, if you're Sri, I mean, you couldn't come up with a better recipe for... Yeah, that's a get-out-of-jail-free card, because that's usually due to her... And she's not a slouch in the challenges, but I do think

compared to the people around her and as she gets up there in age, I think it certainly is something that puts her the most in danger. And especially she starts on the tribe with JT and she's talked about as somebody who could be an early target before the merge and then to have that. And then now three gets to the merge and then people are not looking for her at all in,

in her seasons once she hits the merge and so she had a real opportunity here and you know very uh tragic circumstances with the whole advantage get it though again if you ask her like she thinks it love it less as a tragedy yeah she is the person who has taken it the best out of the millions of people that watch sari go out via advantage get it sari says ah no not that bad mama fees toenails that was wrong which goes to show how bad those toenails were you know if advantage get in did not make her flinch but the kayak did that says something absolutely about big brother punishments though let's talk about the the punishment sari face for a brief period of time as she was on a

tribe to your point nuku for a brief portion of the game with the fourth person that we bring back from pre-heroes versus villains jt and this is a really interesting trajectory for this guy, because he goes into token sheens and quite literally plays the perfect game, wins unanimously, wins the final three immunity challenges, doesn't get a vote against him, wins the fan favorite award, probably one of the most spotless winner arcs in Survivor history. Heroes versus villains. He comes in with a little bit that

sandra energy honestly of like all right listen i know i'm a hero but like let me get a little devious here and so he's going to engineer a couple of interesting things in the pre-merge and then he ends up becoming sort of the mascot of this hero wide big move to try to bring Russell over to their side at the inevitable 5-5 split with a letter in tow and JT is sent out because of it he is nominated for I can't remember does he win the dumbest move award

yeah so James officially loses his reign as dumbest survivor ever so then to have him come back here 14 seasons later you know I in the moment i was excited about it because of this idea of redemption of like okay jt's really going to show that he's capable of not making these massive blunders involving idols and to say i was proven wrong would probably be an understatement yeah jt i think benefits a lot from the edit

when things are going well I think that when things aren't going well I think you could certainly show the flaws in his game I mean this was exciting to have him get a chance to come back after heroes versus villains it's been diminishing returns as well for JT

and I always love when you clock that in this countdown when we go through these people that it just every time they go out it keeps getting worse and I shudder to think what that could look like for me but yeah this was cool to have JT back yeah I think it was really fun especially looking at these

four right again when you think game changers it makes sense Sandra first two time winner sorry someone that has influenced an entire group of people to come onto the show and get off the couch. Ozzy, maybe the most prolific challenge performer and someone that

basically broke Redemption Island in South Pacific. And again, JT, the first person to ever play a perfect game. If you're trying to take Game Changer by the letter and the law of people who like made history, it makes sense that these four would be on here. Okay.

I get the sense this is kind of like that drawing of the horse that you like to bring out where the horse's head is pristine so far. Alright, well let's move on to, I don't know, the neck, the upper haunches as it were. So this group, these are the people who played post Heroes vs. Villains and pre-Cambodia and had not returned yet.

OK, so we have Andrea, Malcolm, Tony, Sarah, Sierra Dawn Thomas and Haley Ford. So we have the two pairs from Karamoan, a pair from Kaga Yan, and a pair from Worlds of Art. Should we start with the Kara Moen pair first or three timers and Andrea and Malcolm? Wherever you want to start, Mike. I got a lot to say on more than a few. Yeah. So let's start with Andrea and Malcolm here. The brother and sister turned.

They don't even have the chance. Yeah, exactly. Did they find some justice perhaps over the course of Survivor Game Changers Andrea, unfortunately continuing her reign of maybe not appearing on the best Survivor seasons when it comes to unfortunately

the quality, not about her involvement whatsoever, but she obviously made a big cut in Survivor Redemption Island, comes back for Karamo and has a pretty respectable 7th place finish, but is voted out with an idol in her pocket. Game changer! I mean, she's

the first woman voted out with an idol in her pocket. And does she... Her placements are what? Like 6th, 7th, 8th in her seasons? Is that right? 5, 7, 8. Because she did technically come back and kind of leapfrog. Got it. Got it. Okay. So... I've five seven eight if she did technically come back and kind of leapfrog got it got it okay so i've told this story before on the podcast i maybe not recently but at the time andrea was

hosting on uh for the people.com i i'm not sure i think that she might have been hosting the survivor after show andrea was, had a, uh, and still has like a really, uh, great hosting career. And she was, uh, doing a survivor segment in New York city.

And I knew that of the rumors of, uh, this returning player season and the people that were on it. And I had the chance. I went went i went to with uh new york city where they were filming this show and this was all pre-covid and they were the whole big taping and i i said to andrea andrea what the hell do you need this for well like uh why do you want to go you're gonna go on survivor they're gonna get somebody in here like uh like you you're out of the casino you went on survivor you had your fun you got a good gig you don't need

this think about it andrea she's like oh okay all right but then she heard her castmates say this is huge i needed this and she got jealous of it yeah no um and and she has uh you know correctly i think i was looking out for a you know um i adore andrea like i was in no way like in my in my opinion this was good advice um and um andrea still continued to do her hosting and did not affect her hosting career. I was also afraid for Andrea that I was worried that she would also not do well to come back. I thought that she was probably seen as a player who is, you know, I don't say sneaky, but like, you know, she's a bit of like a player who is just, I think, respected, but maybe a little feared, especially coming off of-

Fair keeps them loyal. That's what you learn from Boston Rob. The second time that she played and some of the circumstances around, she voted out Francesca. And like, I thought that maybe andrea might have been coming in with like a little bit of a target on her back and i was like look you got a great thing going what do you want to come back and and do this for she then you know after well after the

season was over on many occasions that like you said don't go back and also i felt horrible because uh andrea who has lost a sister, she got like a heart. She had the loved ones visit and she talks about how, what a big deal survivor is to her family, which I did not know any, any of that. When I tried to tell her not to participate in a third survivor season,

Andrea loves survivor. She shows up when people are playing fan run survivor game. So Andrea, I hope Andrea plays. I hope you put her through fan run survivor game. So Andrea, I hope Andrea plays. I hope you put her through Mike on previous seasons. So yeah, we'll, we'll,

we can just go through briefly here. If I, I suffice it to say, we'd love to see Andrea play again in a legend season. Well, Sandra, Sari, Ozzy,

JT, all on the ballot. Andrea also on the ballot. She was one of the, the non Boston, one of the two non Boston raw people we put through from redemption Island. So yeah,

to your point, she said as well that she is, she is great playing whenever, wherever survival will need her, which is maybe a reason why she ended up there when she ended up getting cast here as well. It's like, okay,

maybe if you're casting theme first, does she fit this necessarily? Maybe not so much, but this is, you know, a young woman from the 20s that we can always rely on to like bring some active gameplay as well and Andrea did do that to a certain extent here in Survivor Game Changers yes and she started her Survivor career so young like

I'm sure she's uh still at a great age to play Survivor so we'd love to see Andrea uh come on through um can we talk about malc oh we gotta talk about gotta talk about malc uh and of course mike famously yeah so this is the season of malcolm where i got caught a little flat-footed with my pants down uh and uh i had a certain reaction to the chaos of malcolm's Can we set this up also? Because I kind of feel like that either people are listening to this podcast and they know all these stories and they're smiling

because they know the stories or that we have a lot of people who like this is when did this air? This was what? 2017 air. Okay, so this is spring of 2017 and maybe they didn't even watch Survivor yet at that time and didn't know the podcast anymore but

what is it the fourth episode of Survivor Game Changers we are doing the live show in the now defunct Caroline's on Broadway. Family Bar J.P. outlived Caroline's. Yep and we did the live

show that night and there's a viral twitter clip that went around of when the the everybody is in horror it's almost like that clip from survivor gabon and everybody is horrified that one of the fan favorites everybody's winner pick malcolm is being shockingly voted out. And Mike Bloom is just pointing to the screen and smiling. And I'll add laughing to that. I'll be generous. I'll add laughing.

I was muncing a little bit, I'll admit. You never want to go full munce, but I munced a tad. I mean, listen, as I said on the Philippines podcast that I did with Jake, I love Malcolm. I actually love him as a character. I love the fact with jake i love malcolm i actually love him as a character i love the fact that again he has this i love him as a person too yeah he has this bro look to him but i think he has this this fun bookishness impishness to him that obviously carried over very much into kara moen with the feisty underdog that he was trying to plan all of these big moves i just love chaos a little more than I love Malcolm. And it was absolute chaos.

I also, I get, I get a really bad, like visceral response to when there is a big reaction around me. Like I was overjoyed to see how much people were reacting in unison. Like, isn't that awesome? Doesn't that say something about how great the survivor community is that

we're all in a room together and we're just watching this absolute calamity play out in front of us and everyone slow motion car wreck yeah and everyone is just gasping and their heads are in their hands and it is just it's a miraculous sight to witness probably even more by punctuated by the fact that this clown is in the front row going oh look at that everybody and i'm tapping people on the shoulder being like oh look at this look at this yeah so we deserve to get malcolm in his jimmy t era don't we yeah he's starting to get up there as well and he is indeed part of the ballot but it makes sense again malcolm you can say from the game changers argument he's the one that spearheads the three amigos tribal council which has been proven both in the moment and in retrospect to not be as seismic of own but i would also say

three amigos might be when we look back in survivor history might be one of the most like one of the first market examples of a live tribal council yeah that's a good point uh malcolm i get what's malcolm like 37 uh let me look it up. He's close to that, I believe. Malcolm is 37 on the dot. You got it. Pretty good. Yeah, so he's still doing well with it. He did say in his quarantine questionnaire

that he would be not an immediate yes as he was in this era, but also this is a little bit of a case, though, of to your point about bringing back Sari after Heroes vs. Villains, like, is this how we want Malcolm to bow out of Survivor in these circumstances, being the victim of JT walking over to the other tribe?

Not like this, Malcolm. Come on. Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about someone who did have that unfortunate outcome and did come back and maybe can show to Malcolm like, hey, if you come back. Hey, Malcolm. Yeah, after a disaster showing in game changers, you might just become a winner of survivor two times over.

I was so excited to see Tony. Yeah. This was kind of bittersweet that we got Tony back. It's only a couple of years after Kageyan. Yeah. So that survivor Kageyan was what? 2014. So it was three years later.

Yeah. So three years later, finally, the king is back. And I was so excited and so crestfallen to lose Tony because the first two episodes were all in one night. It was a two hour premiere. Because it was the big, they were building up to, I think it was the 500th episode of Survivor. And so they decided to put,

I believe from an airing perspective, Game Changers might be the shortest season because they also did a two hour merge episode as well. And so they only did it for like 12 weeks. Yeah. So, yeah, just a bummer that we didn't get, you know, even a week of like, oh, Tony made it through night one. So very sad. Turns out the spy bunker. Mm hmm. Not as good as the spy shack or the future spy nest. Yeah. You know, the sequel can sometimes let down a little bit, but it's the very rare case of the third installment of the trilogy. Definitely rising above expectations.

And yeah, I mean, this is also a case where I don't know. This almost feels like in Tony's arc as a survivor player, a little bit of the necessary point in his journey where like he came onto the beach and his and sandra tried to get out ahead knowing that she was seen how she was seen tony maybe did a bit of the opposite i mean he still was tony he still immediately started running as soon as he hit the camp at mana but at the same time i think everyone just grew super wary of tony they had

just seen what he had done three years prior and they did not want to allow that chaos into their lives and so it was after sierra was voted out it was an easy way to dispatch the king but it then allowed him to go into winners at war with this sort of blemish on his record to say like no i'm not a perfect player don't worry i'm gonna build going to build a ladder. I'm going to do nothing. You can trust me. And I think that was one of the reasons why Tony was able to gain a really good foothold early on that paved the way to his second win.

Well, let's talk about someone who always accompanies Tony in all of his seasons. Because this is maybe when we start getting into the case of like, it makes sense why they were cast for a returning player season, but maybe not a season called Game Changers, which again proves the point of they cast first,

theme second, because Sarah Lucina was a really big force in the half season of Kaguya that she was in. Obviously she had that storyline with Tony that eventually became Cops R Us in the swap tribe. She was the lone person left over. From Braun on her campus. And that put her kind of in the swing vote position.

To the point where she was the president. At the merge. And then things go where they do. Right. Sarah plays a really great game. One last thing on Tony. This was a fun reminder. That Tony is going to be on the Traders. Sometimes fun reminder that tony's gonna be on the traders so sometimes i forget that it's like oh this is exciting and tony's also on the ballot

too so yes all right well yeah sarah i don't think i had a ton of hype i feel like that the story about sarah here uh that she says like uh the first time i played like a cop. Now I'm going to play like a criminal. Like that was her tagline. Mm hmm. It's like, OK, like, we'd love to see it. But let's go. Yeah, basically, it was that she got too confident and she got too trusting in people. She thought that she had all the votes clocked so that she could go anywhere she wanted to

Kageyan only to realize that the votes were on her. And I believe Sarah was my winner pick in Survivor Kageyan, and this is one that I actually kicked myself of like, I'm trying to remember who my winner pick was for Survivor Game Changers. I'll find it. When we go through the list,

it'll come back to me. But this is the one I'm like, that was easy money right there. Yeah, I mean, I think that it made sense that she, like we talk about with a lot of these returning seasons, right? Like she did respectable her first season, made it to 11th place, but not so much that she comes in with this big reputation as a massive player. She had some basic skills of what to do, but I will say she surpassed even those expectations. Again, I cannot speak highly enough about what Sarah was able to do, but I will say she surpassed even those expectations. Again, I cannot speak highly enough about what Sarah was able to do.

Now, look, did it make her leave the game with a lot of friends? Not necessarily, but this was a case where Sarah was able to make good with a lot of social capital that she accumulated and spend them wildly, mostly on advantages. Did Sarah get through for

Survivor Kageyan? Sarah did did not get through and maybe at the point this is being recorded you know i'll be told elsewhere that sarah does want to come back my impression is that you know she almost didn't go out for winners at war because she had just felt so mentally detrimented from what happened in game changer she was really affected but she's done two seasons of the challenge since then. Yeah, but that is, I mean, as I'm sure one of your co-hosts can tell you, the challenge is like night and day

compared to playing Survivor. And so, I mean, Sarah being the fallen angel as well, I think a lot of talk that Dwight and I had too is like what more do we need to see of the Sarah Lucina story? I think her story is complete. And especially,

I think the last part of her story was the, was the friendship with Tony and where, where does that. So, yeah, I feel like as a, as a character, I feel like her story is done,

but you know, I'd be, be interested to see like, I don't get the sense that there is a clamoring to see Sarah 4.0. No, I did not detect that as of yet at the time that we are recording this podcast. Also, I did see who you picked for Survivor 34

Rob is your winner pick and spoiler alert, we've already talked about them. Oh, who was it? You picked Ozzy. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder what I was thinking. I have to go back and listen of why I picked Ozzy. I guess I thought maybe everybody average would be too distracted with,

with everything going on. Maybe, maybe you thought it was like, well, it's been 11 seasons and he hasn't won yet. So you feel like all the other big players like Tony, Cerise, Sandra,

JT are going to get taken out over him. And then maybe he'll do what he always wanted to do, which is just challenge beast his way to the end and take home the victory. Yeah. I'd have to go back and listen to my thinking there. I'd be interested to hear. All right. Well,

now I remember thinking it was very clever. Yeah. Well, now we really need to crack into these two. Sierra Dawn Thomas. Yeah. Haley Ford. So first off, you know, we spoke about this in cambodia the

surprising amount of season 30 players that were on the ballot and maybe the discrepancy between production loving worlds apart maybe the fandom not so much so we bring back a couple people from worlds apart i do not think anyone would have expected it to be these two, where Haley ends up becoming the first juror on Worlds Apart. And Sierra Dawn Thomas does make the finale, but I would say is definitely the most under-edited person in the endgame. Yeah. I remember that they did the Survivor, right. Within a year of this. And that was really when the fan favorite Sierra Dawn Thomas was born. And then she became fan favorite game changer,

Sierra Dawn Thomas. Yeah. Fan favorite game changer, Sierra Dawn Thomas. And I don't think that people were expecting mine. She probably goes further than people would expect her to, but yeah, it's, it's kind of wacky

to have her here and call her a game changer. And then Haley, who's a fun personality and is a lovely person. This was even more bonkers that she ends up here. I mean, the person

that would agree with you chiefly would be Haley herself. I do recall there was all the voluminous preseason coverage done. Haley's like, why am I here? I saw that logo. Is that me? Am I a game changer? How did that work?

And I think, again, speaking to what Jeff was trying to do in the preseason, he told Dalton Ross, Haley, to me, is the dark horse to win. I think Haley has everything you need to win this game. I think she's a great student of the game. Really good with her words. Haley was labeled a no collar and in some ways lived up to it. She didn't pull the trigger in ways that I think she wishes she could, but she's absolutely a game changer and someone that I think if she can get

out of the gate and get past some of the older school players, I think she will shock people with how she plays. She did offer to get naked at a tribal council to prove she doesn't have an idol. I believe that was also one of, yeah, was that one of her first or one of her last tribal councils in Game Changers? I think that might have been the tribal council

she got voted out. Yeah, the merge, right? When it was between her and Michaela. And if that's not a game-changing move... I mean, arguably, then you would bring back the winner of your season who infamously got naked on the show. Not a tribal council. Yeah, that's true a game changing move, I mean, arguably then you would bring back the winner of your season who infamously got naked on the tribal council. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. But look, to be candid, I think both of these picks are checking a box that we have talked about consistently going back to the first all-star season, which is this desire to sometimes have young, beautiful women on a survivor season that may be especially of recent seasons exactly especially from recent seasons uh and again like sierra did make it to a finale so she

was around for a while yeah also you know they this is maybe like a little bit of an issue here is that we brought so many people back, like in the late twenties, uh, between, um, Kara Moen was, uh, and we've talked about,

you know, fans versus fairs. There were not a ton of, uh, not a lot to mine there from the fans, uh, that, you know,

uh, we have, uh, a couple of favorites there, but then in blood versus water, we had half returnees, uh, and their loved ones.

So we really had, and we brought back a lot of people already from Kagi on for 31. So yeah, there wasn't really that much, um, uh, ripe news. And then second chances was all,

uh, returnees. So we end up with a couple of like wacky first time players here. I think just out of necessity of there weren't that many other options. And the reason why we also have I think, you know, probes comments on record about Haley being a game changer is that I should mention in a different world. Sierra Dawn Thomas is not on

this cast because if you remember the rumor is that Natalie Anderson before she ends up going to Winners of War and becomes like the highest average finisher in Survivor history was supposed to be on this which does make sense. I forgot all about that. What happened?

She got a concussion? Yeah she got a head injury. I think it was a concussion and so she was not able to be medically cleared and so Sierra Dawn Thomas rolled her way into the game like a barrel okay so she was an alternate she was an alternate yeah uh which i does make sense you know when i'm thinking about alternates that have come back for other returnee seasons there are people that again pop a little bit but not necessarily in a way there you'd be like yeah they, they've got to be on there, but it's someone you want to keep in the repertoire. I mean,

I don't understand, again, why Haley would necessarily make it onto a cast over Sierra, but maybe she impressed them a couple years ago when they were in Nicaragua. Yeah. Are there any like notable snubs that we're not thinking of from that didn't get game

changers that like in hindsight like I'm trying to think of like who were the people from so probably not anybody that was like especially when we're talking about the women so I mean I feel like almost everybody came back from Kankian right yeah

then and then in San Juan del Sur I don't know I don't know like Jacqueline I like I don't know like who like I don't think you're gonna bring back Missy or Baylor and then

in Worlds Apart you're they already people yeah they want to do Shireen for a third time maybe Mama C should have been her returnee spot. That's exactly what I was thinking. Mama C was considered, but for whatever reason,

she was cut at the last second. And so I personally feel like, and maybe it was an age thing. Maybe they felt with like, especially the older school players, they were going, bringing on that. They want to bring on a bit more younger blood to balance it out.

And that's why you go with Sierra over a Mama C, but that's, that's the slam dunk choice to me yeah suffice it to say neither Sierra nor Haley on the ballot but Amamasee is okay so this next group that I want to

get into are people that are in the group of seasons we've talked about but they appeared more recently in some form on Survivor Cambodia so we have two people that were on cambodia and jeff varner and sierra easton but more interestingly rob we have two people who were not voted on by america two years ago but production said we still want to see you back troy zan and brad culpepper okay where do you want to start Mike

uh well let's let's start with the the factors we know here let's talk about Varner and Sierra Easton and look certainly Varner made a name for himself in a very infamous way on all of this but I was not surprised to see him make this cast. And maybe I was again, if you just look under the level of game changer. Yeah. I think we forget around that time. Production love Jeff Varner. They love Jeff Varner. And you know,

and I too, like, you know, somebody who came into survivor when I did, like I was super excited to meet Jeff Varner, who was like always like a a mischief maker and i think that that's probably more fun from you know far away than uh when you see it up close but you know there there were definitely some red flags i think coming out of like survivor

second chances uh with jeff especially when uh you like go back and listen to some of like his exit press and things that he was talking about from uh people that he was not getting along with in that season but i i just think that the the temptation there was that he's somebody who's always going to stir up trouble and It backfires spectacularly on production here. Yeah, 100%. And so, again, should not have been cast on this season, obviously will not be considered for any future seasons. But I do think, especially the way that you hear

probes talk about Jeff Varner is like, to your point, a little sneaky, a little underhanded. And even in Cambodia where he only lasts four episodes, but I do think he was a big narrator as a part of that as well. He was someone that was very good in the confessional, you know, he was,

he was doing stuff like cross tribal communication as well. Trying to pull that off in the middle of challenges. Yeah. He gave them a lot on the TV show, but you know that his, you know, desperation. Yep.

New, no limits. Exactly. Survivor game changers. Yep. We saw what he can do when he was cornered and it was disgusting. So moving on to Sierra, Sierra, you know, has a respectable middle finish in Cambodia.

She winds up 10th or 9th, I think. Yeah, right ahead of Wigglesworth, right behind Steven. Ends up getting idled out. But, I mean, why she's brought on here is what Jeff Probst memetically yells when she's revealed at the Millennials vs. Gen X reunion. She voted out her mom. So I heard you and Uncle Kee talking about uh sierra the other day it got me a little pumped up for uh a sierra 4.0 uh especially the idea of like in a future blood versus water season of her playing

uh with with her uh uh being a like a legacy yeah yeah because it needs to be like when eric came back for fans versus favorites and turn from a fan to a favorite. Yeah. So I think that Sierra could could be a returnee if not. And like I've talked about other podcasts, I would love to see Survivor 50 be more of a second chances and then them do more of a legend season a couple of years down the line. But yeah, I I would be interested and intrigued to see Sierra play again. So now we talk about the two guys that are left off

of the season and in retribution they become two of the final three of this season. So starting with Troy Zan, I mean, I talked about this with Perydium. It made sense why he was on the Second Chances ballot. He is definitely one of the more well-remembered characters

from One World, This Is My Island, probably being like one of the most remembered moments from that season for better and for worse. But I got it. Some people came back from One World. It came at a really good time where it was about to undergo like a bevy of returnee seasons.

They're like, to your point, we got to pull them from somewhere. Here's this young, hot cast of Survivor One World. And Troizen is the exact definition of that, I suppose. But I'll admit in the moment, I was not particularly pleased.

I didn't like Troizen a lot during One World. And for me, it was this attitude of like, we didn't bow you on to the season stop trying to make fetch happen and unfortunately maybe that kind of bore out in the edit where he does make it to the finals

as like a dyed in the wool Survivor fan is something he wanted but it was a little bit like at what cost to your edit but I think that his edit in Survivor One World where like he is such an antagonist to what kim is ultimately trying to do i think he's like well he's pretty well liked by the people who he ends up playing with in survivor uh game changers like i think that there was not a lot of conflict around

troy's and where i think that his first season really bore out that like, oh, he can't get along with anybody except for, you know, Tarzan. Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, that he was kind of built up to your point is kind of one of the conflict causers, especially once Colton left in one world. But he was more of the calm than the chaos. And I don't know if it's more of like an overcorrection of like, hey, my problem was that I was like too antagonistic and this time I'm going to walk it back or this was a little bit more of the real Troys and and if the whole thing where

Kim ended up you know stabbing him in the back that that really set him off but you know Troys and a really sweet guy but I don't think we need to see the Troys and 3.0 I would agree with that I don't think we need to see the Troye Sane 3.0. I would agree with that.

I don't think we need to click, click him through on your ballot. Because I think that we sort of answered the question as well with Troye Sane, right? Of like, okay, what would he do in different circumstances? What would happen if he made it to a finals? And the unfortunate answer is that he gave this like kind of heartwarming speech at the end of like, listen, I know I'm not winning,

but thank you all for letting me play this game. well let's talk about his partner in crime here in brad culpepper because i will admit i am definitely someone who the first time i watched blood versus water i was not a fan of brad culpepper but have immensely grown to appreciate the entertainment value that he brought remember Remember the Game Changers finale that Brad Culpepper came out like with like this like little tiny like mustache that he shaved

right before the reunion happened. Because remember I think Jeff still did the little like walkthrough like here we are. It's Studio City, but we're going to make it look like the jungle for some reason. Here's our the pre jury we're going to make it look like the jungle for some reason. Here's the pre-jury. Here's the jury. And here's everyone in the finale. And I think Brad Culpepper

still had full facial hair. And between that and the winner reveal, he shaved it down to go full video store clerk Joseph from Big Brother 26. Yeah. But then he came out to do press and I think he didn't have anything. He was like, what are you talking about? I didn't have a mustache. And then there was also the infamous potato

sack that he wore to the final tribal council as well. Brad Culpepper really showed a lot of his personality in his second time out, which I'm grateful for. This is an example of, to your point earlier, why maybe you bring back an antagonist and see what else they could bring. Because again, I think Brad was kind of personified back in Blood

vs. Water as, you know, the straw that was stirring the drink, the guy that was bossing his tribe around, and then was kind of overthrown by the people underneath him. Here, he's showcasing his love of interior decoration. Again, he's rocking all these weird fashion and facial

hair trends. And then he also finds himself in a situation where he's on the outs, and he basically has to win out. And he is the most recent example besides chrissy of uh someone tying the all-time immunity challenge record yeah i mean he does far better than anybody could have imagined but i don't think we need more brad for survivor 50 in my personal opinion i would love to see brad on like some other like uh brad and monica on the amazing race.

I'm here for like, I feel like that, I don't know, maybe if, if not the traders, I feel like that out of all these reality shows that pop up with random, uh, reality TV people,

I would definitely watch Brad on another show. Yeah. Brad has that personality. I think that again was, I mean, how many jokes did we still make about cold pepper math about four into five, four into nine and him messing up the numbers like his legacy lives on FU Brad Culpepper. He's the recipient of one of the best memes that comes out of the 20s of a survivor. So I do think that Brad Culpepper, people have come around on him, especially recently.

And he is on the ballot because he has expressed that he would want to come back again. I do agree. It might be a bit of a long shot when push comes to shove but I agree I think you'd be interested to see just put him on HGTV put him alongside Kim Spradlin actually you know what have them do that show together yeah and you know I think that the

Culpepper sons I feel like are like of a certain age you know if you ever did another Blood vs. Water and then you wanted another legacy of have Brad come back with one of the kids. Yeah, I think we just do Survivor the Next Generation. Have everyone play with their children.

I think it's a fun idea. Did we not get a test balloon back in Big Brother 25? Did we not learn our lesson? Okay. Alright, last group that we are going to here. And I did not realize this until we lay it out, Rob. Six people over a quarter of this cast came from the two seasons prior to Survivor Game Changers. Yeah, we really.

It was the story of the season. The co-wrong for the co-wrong for. And I will admit, listen, I think co-wrong and Millennials versus Gen X might x might be you know up there with some of the best back-to-back seasons in survivor history so i'm not mad at it on paper it is pretty wild though that again you got four people that appeared in the first 20 seasons of the show and six people that appeared in the last two seasons of the show. Mm-hmm. Yep. And I remember they filmed this, like, days after Survivor Korong had aired and months before Survivor Millennials vs. Gen X had aired. Right. So it was a lot of introductions.

I know that Zeke and Michaela have told stories about how, like, they were voted out and then they were basically immediately asked, like, hey, would you want to come back again? They're like, uh, yeah, sure. come back again? They're like, uh, yeah, sure. And though,

and so I think Zeke had like from the jury of millennials versus Gen X to starting, uh, game changers, maybe had like four or so weeks of downtime, which is just wild. But let's go through these people starting with someone who, uh,

pinged very much on the radar after that co wrong finale that came right into her perception on survivor game teachers, but does make it to the finale and finish respectively in fifth place. But Aubrey Bracco. And again, we talked about these people that we thought were going to be in danger early on. I think Rob, you and I,

and a lot of fans thought Aubrey was dead to rights. Yeah. She had just come right off of survivor call wrong. And she ends up being this person who was, she should have won. And especially like at the time, there was a lot of like fervor of like that. Aubrey was robbed and she was going to be the,

she was the person that should have beaten Michelle and one survivor call wrong. But you know, Aubrey just like looking back at her survivor career and i know you saw that we just recently interviewed aubrey for talking with t-bird yeah aubrey really did leave a mark i mean she was a game changer i think that way that hell her legacy carries through to this day when mariah mentions her favorite player is aubrey it apparently causes q to target her yeah i just think that she was sort of like really,

you know, the first of like a different archetype of a woman who came across who was fun and smart, but also quirky, but also could like hold her own in the challenges. And I think that Aubrey is just a really fun character. And I definitely could see Aubrey on a legend season down the road yeah we did not add her to the ballot at this moment

because basically we ended up replaying the conflict of okay we have one spot left do we add Aubrey or Michelle and we felt like Michelle given the fact that she's appeared on reality TV more recently and I think is more emphatically for going on the show than Aubrey. She got the nod here, but Aubrey will get another chance.

An Edge of Extinction will probably get on as a wild card as well. And I agree. I think that Aubrey is somebody who has also changed a lot, obviously has become a mother since she was mother back in 2016. has become a mother since she was mother back in 2016. And if she is up for it, I think could be really interesting, especially when she is not coming through this series of seasons where 32, 34, 38,

she is known as like this big strategic presence. Yeah. I, you know, Aubrey playing for a fourth time is not like something I have to see, but I definitely would be intrigued. I agree. Let's talk about the person that she ends up sitting next

to not only in CoWrong, but also in fifth and fourth place at the reunion of this season. Let's talk about Ty, because Ty again, game changer. I don't know maybe him denying Scott. Mike, he got the first Sia prize. I think that's true, especially in retrospect.

He's maybe the biggest game changer of it all, that he changed the way that fan favorite awards were given out for a brief period of time. But also, Ty definitely fits the bill as well for this guy had returnee written all over him. He was one of the biggest characters of the season. I talked about this in the CoWrong podcast as well. I don't think he's remembered as much,

but was also a big player that season as well. Someone that was willing to find idols and play them or not play them. And one particular instance, he's going to find, what, three more in the course of this season alone. And also just one of the most unique personalities that we have ever seen.

And unfortunately, I don't know if, again, it's just circumstances or maybe the fact that they just came off of their season airing but aubrey and ty despite the fact that they make it to the finale yet again much more understated edits compared to co-wrong for sure yeah ty i think that you can easily like forget about him i feel like throughout the middle of Survivor Game Changers I feel like he has a big like beginning and certainly like a a lot in the finale but yeah Ty

kind of a quiet run in Game Changers the rest of the way I don't know did they need Ty for Game Changers I'm not so sure I mean I think specifically if we look at these six and maybe hayley and michaela as well under a different theme if we look at those as second chances too

i think it absolutely makes sense to put him and aubrey and these next two that we're going to talk about on i just think it's a matter of like i think in that moment yes the michelle versus aubrey debate was the main thing to take away but again ty was such a fan favorite that he got thousands of dollars from a random celebrity and so i think he was a slam dunk to return at some point in time i think maybe in retrospect actually i think you know he would probably say yes because this was the last time he could possibly return but i do imagine if he was given the option of like, hey, come back for 34, come back for like 40,

he would probably choose 40. I just feel like that we got everything there was to get out of Ty. He had such a like a complete story. I feel like in Survivor Korong that I don't know if there was like another level to his Surviv survivor story. Well, for what it's worth, Ty is on the ballot. So we will see if people agree or disagree with you about possibly seeing a Ty 3.0.

OK. Next up, Debbie. And Debbie is a case of, again, I think somebody that would fall into this category of she's a character from the season that we want to see back again. It just so happens to be under a season called Game Changers. You know, for newer Survivor fans, I feel like Debbie was like the female Q.

It was somebody who just created so much in the season that you wanted to see what they were going to say next. There's a lot of like, is this person for real? What are they doing and then that they

were such a slam dunk Debbie to come back and it doesn't go great the second time around so she does have one of the best instances of I'm pissed until Liz Wilcox comes around yeah and so and she's talked about

it like we did a talking with t-bird with her and i think she talked about that she was uh going through uh a life change in the same way i think lil has talked about also and so maybe debbie wasn't quite herself uh all through survivor game changers but that this is uh not a pick that you could second guess too much uh even years later yeah i mean i think debbie also sort of proved why she was cast in the season right sometimes these people come on and pull the wenworth and surprise you sometimes people come on and play a completely different way than you expect like jt debbie came with the label and did exactly what she was going to do right but there was a a lightness to debbie in survivor

co-wrong that we really don't see here in game changers except in the presence of one john cochran exactly he's the one to bring it out of deb Debbie when she is fortunate enough to be exiled and go visit him on the yacht. So Debbie was left off the ballot. I know she has expressed the desire to play. But I also think to your point about how we kind of have become unintentionally rich with these kooky characters, the wackadoodles, if you will, in the new era. I think, you know, Debbie is someone that will, quote unquote, inspire other choices like a Nora, like a Carolyn, et cetera, that I think we're fine seeing those for the second time than Debbie for the third time. Yeah. Debbie had a cameo on the Opry talking with T-Bird.

Oh, really? Mm hmm. How's she doing nowadays? It was quick. She had the parrot on her shoulder and. Oh, Debbie's gone full pirate now. Mm-hmm. Oh, well, she's perfect for Survivor Pearl Islands

when they bring that theme back. Well, we talk about a third time for Debbie. Let's talk about a guy who came on for his third time on a CBS reality show. Yeah. Beast Mode Cowboy. So Caleb Reynolds shows up on Survivor Co. Wrong as one of the beauties and nearly gets

judy chop not out of the game but out of existence when he undergoes honestly probably the closest anyone has come to death on survivor during that absolutely staggering scene and survivors get him back out here well i think it was again this manner of like i cannot believe this is a guy who put his body on the line to the point of extreme exhaustion for salt and pepper the way that probes explains it in his army with Dalton he says Caleb that one baffles

me how would you ever say he's not a game changer he was willing to risk dying to win that's a game changer there we go cut print maybe big brother game changer. There we go. Cut print. Maybe Big Brother game changer. I think Big Brother law changer in terms of the restraining order.

Yeah, I mean, when Caleb went out in Korong, I think they put the card on the screen. It's like he, Caleb, has made a full recovery and is looking forward to playing again. Yeah, it was only a matter of time looking forward to playing again yeah it was a only a matter of time that they would play that this was a matter not unlike mike scoopin honestly where it

was like here was someone who had some momentum going and caleb didn't attend a tribal council before he was medevaced and so it was a matter of we did he didn't even really get to play the game and then he goes out in this incredible show of television that puts his life obviously on the line and that he makes a full recovery it's clear they want to have him back again i think it was just a matter of timing that the next returnee season happened to be only a couple seasons afterwards and happened to be now ironically i suppose caleb is one of these people on this slide that maybe fills the title of game changer the most, considering that the story is from Cambodia onwards. They had to provide a source of potable water 24-7 to make sure nobody died from heat exhaustion.

Yeah, that's that's a good idea. Yeah, I agree as well. Let's finish off with two of the people that got brought straight from millennials versus gen x they they sparkled in the eyes of the producers while they were watching them and said you want to delay your ticket back home for a little bit stay in fiji go play another season and it's interesting because listen i people at the time i think knew that these two would be involved in this season in some way shape or form and so i imagine they were probably watching Millennials vs. Gen X with that lens of, okay, what are they going to do to be a game changer? And look, your mileage may vary,

but I would say these are definitely two of the standout characters among a cast of standout characters in Millennials vs. Gen X. For sure. I mean, I think that ends up being probably a little bit more surprising that Michaela ends up going out

where she does in Survivor or Millennials vs. Gen X. But I would also say that I feel like that Michaela is a bigger character in Millennials vs. Gen X than she is in Game Changers. Oh, definitely. I mean, Michaela is somebody who

kind of always has her back against the wall. If I remember correctly, she was a target both at the first vote and at the first merge vote. I think it was just maybe almost the exact opposite of what they did with Russell Hansen heroes versus villains where it's like, we don't really know you. We're going to get rid of you immediately because we kind of have relationships with other people.

She does have that really nice scene with Sari where the two of them connect. And she of course does have everything going on with JT where that's where I think that millennials versus Gen X, Michaela got a little bit. That that's a little bit yeah the the moment with jt was a good one um and then but she doesn't find the advantage uh right um right under her feet and she goes out in one of the most confusing tribal councils ever right and but mckayla like from watching her like on the challenge and specifically the challenge USA this last one I mean she is such a big personality yes I do think that her coming

back to Survivor I do think she would bring a lot to a season and I completely agree and so did Allie Lasher that's why she's on the ballot and I will admit it fully was because of the challenge USA season two where even in her first challenge season she she was one and done. It was very much, it was basically what they tried to do in Game Changers of like, you're a new person, you're scheming too much, we got to get rid of you.

But she really entertained me in so many different ways in USA too that I really would like to see her back for time number three. And then for Zeke, I'm pretty sure Zeke has said that Zeke does not want to play Survivor again. And understandably so. Forget Survivor, Zeke was blocked by Zeke does not want to play Survivor again. And understandably so.

Forget Survivor. Zeke was blocked by the Survivor Instagram. Can we get Zeke unblocked from Survivor Instagram? Yeah, let's start with that. It makes so much sense why Zeke is someone that would get brought back. I think Zeke is obviously someone who came from the world of comedy and writing. A really fun storyteller. He obviously stands out as the guy who came in

with the mustache and the Hawaiian shirt and makes fire in that first episode. But also he was one of the gamiest people of the season. Yeah, I mean, Zeke loves reality TV. I remember I met Zeke in like, I think it was 2012.

I went to like a blogging conference and, uh, met Zeke there and Zeke wanted to write blogs for Rob has a website.com. And so, uh, that was my first encounter with, uh, Zeke who just loves,

loves survivor, loves reality TV. Great sense, great sense of humor. Uh, that we're lucky we got Zeke, who just loves Survivor, loves reality TV, great sense of humor. We're lucky we got Zeke for the year that we had him, but I don't think Zeke is coming back. Nope, definitely not. Zeke's life is fine.

He is now married to his wonderful husband, Nico. And so he is doing well, though. Who knows? As you said, he's a fan of reality TV, so maybe he'll get thrown onto another show like Worst Cooks in America, as an example or the traitors could be on the traitors as well so yeah so these two end up coming back to back and it does bring up an interesting question rob is that again more than a quarter from this cast is made up of people from the last two seasons

before game changers now that's the biggest punchline of all, Mike, that we could spend all this time talking about who should come back from Survivor and, you know, ends up being all people from Survivor 47, 48, and 49. So it's a good question, though, is that obviously 50 is a big number

and a lot of people have been talking about, you know, will they cast the net wide and try to get someone from the first season on? Or do you think they'll do it in a way that they've done Cambodia and Game Changers and say, oh yeah, we're going to really try to pull from the last five seasons of the show majorly? I feel like Second Chance, I feel like is a good,

is instructive to look at where you had like, okay, Kimmy and the Varner who came back from like, and when Kelly Wigglesworth and so like, okay, let's get a couple of throwbacks, but more of it is going to be heavily recency biased. Yeah. So we shall see.

But this is trying to look into the secret sauce that was casting for Survivor Game Changers. I can read off, Rob, including yourself, a list of players that were allegedly considered and or cut for Game Changers, if you'd like. Would love to. All right. So let's talk about the cut people first. These are people that were considered, but ultimately decided not to get let on by production. We have from Survivor Cagayan Alexis Maxwell, former RehabCon

guest. A true game changer. Mama C as mentioned before. Yeah, baby. Chelsea Meisner, finalist from Survivor One World. You know what? One of the only people from One World they didn't bring back and somebody who went on to have like a very good reality TV career. Yeah,

she said, if they don't want me on CBS, I'm going Bravo's way. Of course, there was a story about how I believe Danny Boatwright was contacted, but only wanted to do all winners. And she lucked out in that regard to six seasons later, John Cody and John Mish are blood versus water. John's both considered,

but ultimately not brought on. Okay. I think it makes sense. Cause again, from like a male perspective as you were kind of talking about with this season and carries over a lot into all stars where it felt like they wanted the people that they

got and so there wasn't a lot of room for guys to kind of wiggle their way on yeah it's almost like and Akiva mentioned this in blood versus water but it's almost like okay you have your fantasy team and you got your first like your big draft picks and it it's like all right i gotta fill out the rest of the roster here yeah exactly so uh they end up sort of getting benched or sent over to another team

in the case of chelsea jonathan penner yeah allegedly no i can confirm this i remember um back in that spring of 2017 i I remember like getting texts from Penner and maybe I don't know if we spoke on the phone, but I remember him basically saying that, yeah, they were calling. They were asking about if he wanted to do it or not and that we were talking a little bit about whether or not he wanted to go back for a fourth time.

Did he want to in that moment? I know he has said now that he's fine coming back. I honestly don't remember if he Did he want to in that moment? I know he has said now that he's fine coming back. I honestly, I don't remember if he said he wanted to do it and they cut him or if he ultimately backed out. Well, here's the rare

Kaguya on returnee that was not LJ ends up getting cut. And LJ, I think, is in line with Sarah of like, again, game changer, maybe not, but somebody from Kaguya

and that I could see returning. So, yeah yeah i just feel like they were like grasping at straws a little bit here of like uh you know they're making a lot of phone calls like i think if i if i really was like hey like this is it i'm ready uh of course marty piombo mr farty himself i know steven was uh making me sad the other day when he talked about with the Heroes vs. Villains that, you know, probably Marty Piombo. We're never going to see him again. He's on the ballot. Look, we'll we'll try to make it happen from a fandom perspective.

But yeah, that that dose of reality was was unfortunately not very welcome. But someone who is put on the ballot that from a more recent season, Mike Holloway was apparently in consideration for Game Changers. Does make a lot of sense. I do wonder if JT declined when Mike be his direct replacement. Yeah, I remember hearing that he was in the mix for Game Changers to come back. And I don't remember exactly what the circumstances were. Allegedly, Monica Culpepper was considered and cut do you think it's a case where you know her and brad did not want to do the same season together again do you

think i don't know how young uh their kids were at that particular point but they could have been like a robin amber ahead of their time like uh a robin amber from season 40 not the robin amber that i played with i mean monica does end up showing up on the season later on anyway. Yeah. Unfortunately, after going from the onsite alternate in heroes versus villains, Natalie Bolton is unfortunately cut before even being considered for the cast of game changers. Oh,

that would have been fun. A fun spot to bring her back. Then of course we have, again, you talk about how co wrong was running hot in terms of this casting pool. Dr. Obama, Peter Bagans, does apparently considered what yeah that's uh and it's interesting kirsten said that

she kind of got i mean this guy was voted off right before the merge kind of had this storyline right where he thought he was the big leader yeah it turned out that he gets humbled i mean i i think he could have been fine to come back, but that's pretty wild. Joining Chelsea is her fellow one-world finalist, Sabrina, who, again, we're sort of on the streak of Sabrina being like, I don't want to come back, but you keep asking me, so I guess I'll say yes. And finally, someone who does come back for Winners at War in Sophie Clark was apparently in consideration and cut.

Interesting. They cut Sophie? You know what? I think it makes a lot of sense because I would imagine, and we talked about this more with Heroes vs. Villains, that they were kind of casting

some pseudo rivalries on. It would make sense to put her and Ozzy on the same season, no? Oh, interesting. Yeah. The dragon slayer and the formerly slayed dragon. Yeah.

I have a hard time thinking that Sophie is passing at this point in time, but yeah. She didn't decline. I think she was just considered. I have a hard time thinking that Sophie is passing at this point in time. She didn't decline. I think she was just considered. People who did decline, it looks like Sydney from Korong ended up declining. Of course, we talked about this in the Fiji podcast that Earl apparently went pretty far along in the casting process, but ultimately declined due to work obligations. I know that Greg Buess was asked for Cambodia.

Apparently they pinged him again during Game Changers and he said no. Both Joey Amazing and Kelly Wentworth felt it was too soon after Game Changers. They waited a few seasons before appearing again in Edge of Extinction. And then there is a rumor that apparently Colleen Haskell was rumored to be asked

and obviously declined. How do they know? I don't know. These survivor fans, they might have been tracking her landline at the time. They could have found where she lived. Yeah. Imagine Colleen Haskell came back for Survivor Game Changers. I mean, I think what they like

to do with these seasons, if they can help it, right, is like bring on somebody from Borneo for every full returnee season. They couldn't do it obviously in heroes versus villains because of richard hatch but that's what they intended magic holly haskell's like look i haven't had anything to do with survivor for 17 years but game changers okay yeah put me in i heard about a legacy cowboy i'm in yeah i heard about this legacy advantage i'm in i think we need more advantages in the game put me on yeah yeah so that does it

for oh and i guess a couple of other people that were considered uh abby maria and of all worlds apart people again we continue to uh scrape a little to the bottom of the barrel writer here apparently so kim was considered first boot of survivor worlds apart for game changers wow just goes to show that anyone rob can be a game changer anybody can be a game changer okay well let's see what they come up with for survivor 50 yeah we shall see tomorrow we move into a really interesting period in survivor history because rob we're a little bit in uncharted waters here we will have one more returnee season which you're going to join me to talk about in a little bit in winners of

war, but game changers was the last time that any non winning players could return for a survivor season. And so we are going to be talking about seasons where basically nobody has come back. And so I think the focus is honestly going to shift. I really enjoy a lot of modern survivor cast, especially in the new era.

I think, unfortunately, for those that like to come and listen to these podcasts and be like, great, this is a person who, you know, got their unjust boot and I want to see them come back. They're very underrated. I think this is the period of time when we start to put on the meta hats a bit more and the Facebook hats. when we start to put on the meta hats a bit more and the Facebook hats

and we start to say who are some people that the show would legitimately consider bringing back over these are people that we would want in our heart of hearts to come back well I think this next era that you're going to start mining of 35

through 39 I do think that there is a lot of fodder here for people. Uh, like I, I feel like the over under here for this next, like chunk of survivor history that you're going to, I think four and a half people, I think,

uh, is the over under for how many people from this, uh, part of survivor history will be brought back. So is your assumption that it's going to be 10 new era, assuming a 20 person cast? I'd say 10-ish. 10-ish and then like 5 from this group and then 5 from seasons 1

through 34 basically. If you had to like lock me in for something, that's what my prediction would be. So we are locked in tomorrow to start off this new stretch of Survivor history with Survivor Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers.

No matter what the theme may be, it's a cast that contains a lot of interesting people. Obviously, an unprecedented and game-changing in and of itself win in the form of Ben, but plenty of people along the way. I'll be discussing it all with Lindsay Wilson tomorrow. Oh, that's fun. Rob, I'm intrigued.

I mean, again, you talk about going into this much larger pool. Who from this next season would you want to put on your personal shortlist? Well, if Chrissy wants to play again, I think that that would be great. You know, Devin

is somebody who... Lauren Rimmer was somebody who at the time was really... She kind of got forgotten to Survivor history very quickly. But I think that like in the immediate fallout of that, Ryan, I think is somebody who was interesting.

Dr. Mike, again, we're going to have a lot of people to choose from. And in the true heroes, healers, hustlers fashion, there might.

And Desi is somebody who, when we talk about where like Michaela really enhanced basically her survivor resume really got enhanced by appearing on the Challenge USA

so we shall talk about all of that tomorrow and in true HHH fashion I may have a twist on my sleeve that we will institute moving forward a la the fire making challenge get your flints out everybody but rob you survivor hhh mike uh my final appearance on survivor wow all right because you were doing the challenges right before the finale look for me in the finale yes i believe uh didn't jeff shay like there sister nino their sister doing

challenges i was just a long series of andrea and cochran i believe yeah see andrea loves survivor even after participating in game changer she came back and was participating in challenges that's right right out there the season after is with rob you brought the fire this podcast as always there'll only be a brief period of time before we're chatting again about winners of war, but anything you'd like to plug in the meantime. Just a big brother, 26, 26 days in Survivor,

big brother, 26. There's a lot more days than that, but we're cooking. We are absolutely cooking. And tomorrow... Join us for the Summer of Survivor every Wednesday. Yes, myself and Rob and Shannon Gus,

we are doing wild and wacky miscellaneous things. Because if you love Survivor every Wednesday. Yes, myself and Rob and Shannon Gus, we are doing wild and wacky miscellaneous things. Because if you love Survivor Game Changers, boy, do we have a season for you to listen to. Yeah, check out our Celebrity Survivor Brandsteel season where we simulated a season of Survivor Game Changers with Celebrity Survivor fans. And

listen, the deadlock rule may not have been invoked in the season proper, but it certainly was in this fictional season. So check that out, as well as, of course, the Survivor 50 wish list, which returns tomorrow with Healers, Healers, Hustlers with Lindsay Wilson. Until tomorrow, everybody, take care. Bye-bye. Get ready for Las Vegas-style action at BetMGM, the king of online casinos.

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