RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Wish List | Ep 35: Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers with Lindsay Wilson

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Today, Mike and Lindsay Wilson discuss Season 35: Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers.

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Notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge. Companion, only in theaters January 31st. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Survivor 50 wishlist podcast, an offseason series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for Survivor 50. Today, we're talking some heroes. We're talking some healers. Maybe we'll be talking about some hustlers as we're discussing Season 35 of Survivor. Maybe one of its most suspect themes. And we certainly have a lot of suspects to look over to see who will make the

shortlist of course i am mike bloom and i am joined today by someone who i would consider a hero healer and a hustler even though there are no h's in her name though maybe we could add that in it's helenzi wilson incredible yes hhh maybe the best and worst reason for themes to exist. I don't know. I mean, it has to be one of the goofiest themes I've ever seen on a reality TV show. Without a doubt. Like Brains, Brawn, Beauty. Yes, Beauty was this odd and Peggy hanger on that's not exactly brumming up against the age-old conflict

of Brain versus Brawn. Blood versus Water, as a theme makes sense as a title makes absolutely no sense this is sort of a combination of both where it is sort of set up this three-sided rivalry between three different groups of people who all also have kind of questionable categorizing as well. They all have jobs. Yeah, like, okay, you're a healer. You help heal people, but you're not a hero. That's for sure. That's a different thing than a healer.

If you're a doctor. That's for actuaries. Yeah, if you're a doctor, I'm so sorry. You're no hero in this perspective. Yeah, no, absolutely not. Like, even Chrissy eventually abandons it where she's like, I guess I'm a hero because I'm a mother. Not because I'm an actuary.

I don't know. Well, regardless what label they have, the label that we are going to assign to them today is possible Survivor 50 returnee. And Lindsay, it's only appropriate in season 35 that introduced a game changing twist in the form of, of course, the very controversial Final Four fire making

that we introduce a controversial twist here as well. Do you have your flints ready? I certainly do. I thought you were going to say that people would have to like pick a rocket of a bag and if it was a match to what you picked then they could be on the season. We have like the worst theme ever

we have the worst challenge ever that was the loved ones challenge too season 35 was kind of a weird season overall. I've said this before, obviously, this is when I first started podcasting for the BNB and covering Survivor as a reporter. But I always felt like the first half of Survivor Triple H was mad to middling.

Then it actually really picks up in the post-merch, especially when we get that like secret alliance of four coming together i would say through uh ben idling out lauren and then sort of the the church it up ashley blind side of it all and then i think one of the reasons why people largely obfuscate the season unfortunately is because of the finale uh and the introduction of this last minute twist that ends up putting the wind in the sails for the ship. That is Ben Dreebergen, who has been this little dingy navigating its way through the cruise ships. Once he becomes sort of the odds on target and through a combination of

idle plays. And again, a new structure to the format falling his way. He makes his way to the end and wins. I'll be at a bit controversially. And hopefully this choice isn't that controversial. Lindsay, we are expanding the courts here. We're doing what those powers in Washington wouldn't do.

But we are now going to be, of course, in the past, over the past 34 seasons, we have decided that maybe two, three, but maximum four people would be allowed during one of these wishlist podcasts. And then maybe we'll add other people on as wild cards in the roundup that I do with Rob. We're going to expand it out here.

We are going to go to five people, a maximum of five from heroes, healers, hustlers onwards. And there's one big reason for this is that we are in uncharted waters when it comes to returning discussions because game changers besides winners of war was the last opportunity for people to come on basically from these seasons we had obviously four people come back in edge of extinctioninction, but with the exception of David, those people had already returned. Again, we have the winners and winners of war,

and we haven't had a returning season since. So that being said, it's going to be an incredibly large pool to pull from, from here on out. We're essentially looking at everyone who has not won in seasons 35 through 46. Not to mention, I think from a meta perspective, depending on what the theming is, I would imagine casting is probably going to be looking more closely at the last 10 seasons than maybe at these old, old school seasons. Though, again, please, my lips to the casting producers' ears

that please look back on those early seasons. Let's do some old school casting choices. But I would just imagine from a logistics perspective and a casual audience, recent memory perspective, we're going to be pulling a lot from the Heroes, Healers, Hustlers era onward. So we just want to guess a little bit of a wider net, Lauren Rimmer style,

to catch some more crabs here in these seasons from here on out. Because yeah, Lindsay, I feel like the popular consensus is with this group and moving into the latter 30s, I think, again, just due to the returning circumstances, we have kind of looked over some really interesting cast members, even in a season like this, which, again,

I think a lot of people have felt has been kind of marred by the ending. There are some interesting heroes healers and hustlers that we could talk about as possibly returning yeah no doubt i don't think this is controversial at all i love this there are a lot of people that i think were probably really worried they were never going to get a chance because there was talk of we're not bringing back anyone pre-season 40 ever again so i think this is a good thing i think this is great and i just re-watched the season for the first time since it aired, and

there were a lot of people on here that I could see us having an interesting conversation about. I think 5 is maybe doable. Yeah, so let's briefly dwell on that for a second, because I would imagine, again, this is a season that maybe not a lot of people went back to watch just because of how the ending rang on their palate. How does that overall

flow go with you? Does it match up to the way that I kind of outlined it before? Or do you think differently? I actually enjoyed this a lot more than I think I did in the week to week, which was fun, maybe just because like it felt like new survivor. So I'd never actually watched the journey before. I was definitely going into it with an eye toward was chrissy robbed was this pure misogyny people weren't going to give it to her because she was a mom because she was a

woman and so i think that really informed my viewing that was really fun and yeah i don't know i think you're right i think the beginning is pretty meh where you're like katrina radke's not even in this first episode what happened uh all All the way up to like Allie getting voted out is really interesting. I think it starts really picking up steam at the merge. And it was fun. I enjoyed watching this. I thought it might be a bit of a slog, but this was good. All right.

Well, let's start getting into this group. And we will begin, as we always do, with the final three. And yeah, you mentioned Chrissy's um perhaps controversial defeat and we'll talk about the two men around her in ryan and of course our winner in ben so ben of course does return for winners at war where he makes a deep run makes it all the way to the finale it certainly is not without some fireworks in true ben bomb fashion particularly his little rivalry with adam klein but ben has a surprisingly dramatic exit from the game where in winners at war some of these contestants kind of had secondary goals in mind because they'd already won the game

previously obviously number one is two million dollars but for ben he just kind of wanted some friends this was a guy who spent the last what week and a half on the island being in an army of one for lack of a better term his back against the wall after he finds out that essentially everyone's turned on him he plays an idol at seven he plays an idol at six he plays an idol at five. He plays an idol at five. And then he wins final four fire making. So he is scraping and clawing his way through each and every moment in the game and isn't even really surrounded by people that necessarily want him to be there. That it was kind of like the continual obstacle to get in the way of their million dollars until he won it. until he won it. So when he comes into Winners at War and a scenario is presented to him in the endgame of, okay, just so you know,

if you get dragged to the end here in the final three, the jury is going to tear into you. They did not like you. You are not going to win this game. Ben decides in that moment that he would more so give a chance to somebody else to possibly make it to the end, then get to the end himself and maybe get a shot at 100K, but much more so get a shot at just being torn down in a final tribal council setting. And so, again, a bit controversially, he chooses to step out of the game at the final five. He essentially asked to get voted out and so

sarah and michelle and natalie choose to do so ironically enough uh you know some have said that maybe if ben was trying to help sarah he actually should have stayed in the game instead but regardless ben makes the choice that he does walks out with his cowboy hat held high. But certainly not out of reality TV for those that are uninitiated. Ben has been on two challenge seasons. He has been on the Challenge USA Season 1 and, of course, the Challenge World Championship. So that being said, we have talked about some contestants, obviously obviously through these modern seasons in particular that have jumped back to the big c of survivor from the ponds of shows like the challenge would you want ben to replicate that process lindsey yeah so i extra credit also watched season 40 because i was like wow oh my god yeah, you are by far the person who did the most homework for this.

Love homework. Professional student. Yes. But I was watching basically to say, like, is there more to the Ben story? And I think one thing that jumped out at me this time was that in rewatching 35 in particular, I think Ben's story, especially around his post-traumatic stress, everything that he went through being in the army all of that was maybe Marines Marines I think he was a Marine yeah Marines

yes exactly yes him talking about that I felt like that was very sensitively handled I felt like that was very well done I think there was a lot of really important stuff with that that I don't think I picked up on as much maybe the first time I think watching it in a binge it was it felt like it was very well done uh coming into season 40 definitely it was

like all right I need to make friends this time he and Tony and Sarah got along so well and yeah and then it's just kind of this moment where he's like you know what vote me out this can be a move for you and I remember that feeling so shocking but he also presented it like I got what I wanted out of this season people like me this time and I kind of feel like that's enough like it seems like he tied that up in a bow moved on to the challenge

that's great I don't know if we need to see Ben again I agree I also think that I talked about this a bit with Sarah as well not to again put words in his mouth but it did seem like Survivor does take a toll on Ben's mental health. I mean, you talk about again, the PTSD,

which I thought was so beautifully expressed in that scene where he hears the popping by the fire in heroes, healers, hustlers, but I wouldn't want it to necessarily have him put himself in a situation that, that could be destructive to him. Again,

he has shown that he can be on other reality shows even though those challenge seasons in particular are more so skewed towards guys his age and for what it's worth ben was never technically eliminated from the challenge he actually got uh taken from the game twice due to injury and illness respectively so i would also say for me and and I will also put out a warning that especially as we're getting into these seasons, 35 onward, I really

love these casts overall. I think casting is the strongest thing that Modern Survivor has going for it. So I mean, no offense if there are any cast members listening out there about whether or not they're chosen. It's not necessarily for me like oh i i don't ever want to see them come back it's also more so speaking from a production

perspective as well especially given these seasons where despite us even expanding the short list there's going to be a lot more people to pick from a lot more possibilities and i do feel like for ben a like you said that story feels like it has a bow on it from Winners at War in that he accomplished his secondary goal. And for me also, when it comes to bringing back winners, I'm looking to, okay, the people I'm putting on the shortlist who are winners are either legends for a possible legend season or winners who were not on winners at war and you know should deserve another glance and maybe a different chance to see how they would do in the game that they were not necessarily given in 2020 or if there are people who uh for whatever one reason or another i feel like there's some unfulfilled stuff to their story that i would want to see again i would not say ben fits any one of those categories yeah i would agree and i think think rewatching the season to me actually was pretty good for my

impression of Ben's game where I think going into it. And I think the common sort of discourse is like, oh, he was handed idols. He was handed the game. He had the twist handed to him, all of this stuff. But I think in rewatching it, I was like, this guy was out there working really hard, hustling, you might say. There we go. I think that was good. I was good to to watch that i feel like ben played a pretty good

game certainly it had its controversial aspects but yeah i think we got enough out of ben i think he did a great job carry on well let's go from finished business to quite unfinished business let's talk about chrissy i mean chrissy has one of these many arcs that we have experienced with people like aubrey like david wright going all the way back even to like a kathy vavreck o'brien where she from our perspective is really struggling in the beginning you know she nearly passes out during that first challenge to the extent where ryan actually gives her that super idol that she doesn't end up needing to use even though it does seem like she's on the outs in the beginning she is eventually able to cut a swath into the game whether it's her bond with ben

her building something with ryan and jp uh in the pre-merge that ends up turning into the post-merge and then when she's put on the back foot when this alliance of four plus the coconuts come together to take out JP. Chrissy starts stringing together a record tying immunity run where she wins four individual immunities, again, tying the most ever for a woman in the game. And maybe in a different world where this final four fire making twist doesn't exist,

she gets to the end and she wins. It's a little up for debate. I think certainly there is discussion amongst this jury vote as to chrissy's personal relationships i know certainly when i was talking with uh in particular some of the healer women in exit press they did not have the highest remarks for chrissy it does seem like even when she felt like she had a social game some of it was felt a little transactional right when she's going down the line saying like cole i know your act score joe i know this about you maybe you never want to get married yeah i feel like it maybe was not approached in the most tactful way all that being said to me if there is

one person that is the most guaranteed to come back for season 50 out of 35 it would be chrissy there would be one other person that maybe if it was like a returning season in 40, I would put right up there with her that we'll get to in a little bit. But for Chrissy, she has the story, obviously, that she was the person that was quote-unquote robbed by the final four fire-making twist.

She has the resume, someone that was able to play strategically and win challenges. And maybe a la like a second chance of Spencer come through and be like, OK, now I learn need to learn to be more social. And she is somebody who also obviously had a lot going on in her life as well. If you haven't checked out her road to reality podcast, Chrissy underwent a major cancer procedure as well. And she's she's doing well now she's on the other side of it but none of that has dulled her hunger to go back and play this game yeah definitely i

actually did look up chrissy because i was curious to see if she has talked about this at all and she definitely seems really keen to play i think it's actually nice to see how open she's been about like she you know had the test she found out that she had that brachygine which increases your risk of breast cancer had this preventive mastectomy and just i think has been so public about that in a way that is really important and that's great so obviously survivor loves the story so she's got that she's got all of the things you would want to see i am going to try to walk a line a little bit here and avoid making people

furious. I thought watching it, I was like, all right, I'm prepared to see an incredibly underrated game. I didn't necessarily feel like she played an incredibly underrated game. However, she should definitely come back.

Maybe that's also the thing, right? Is that there is maybe some potential to explore of things to improve upon i think even chrissy herself would pontificate on that as well it's also interesting in that maybe if she came back for like a season 40 she could have been one of the initial targets just because again she was such a strong player and maybe wouldn't have the time to necessarily learn from those foibles and turn that game around but honestly i feel survivor 50 would be a perfect environment for Chrissy in that she's known enough,

but there are certainly people, hell, as recently as Survivor 46, that might consider more, quote unquote, robbed than her, that she's not stuck out as like, oh, one of the best to never win the game. But she still has the skills. And again, hopefully some hindsight there looking back on Triple H

to be able to put in a hell of a game totally yeah and I think there were definitely some gaps in her game but I think she would be able to see what those were I think they were not around strategy she had a great strategic mind that whole actuary piece where she could run the numbers really easily I thought she was really good at that she did have good relationships it was just there were definitely some gaps around like maybe taking things a little bit too personally sometimes, or maybe not saying things exactly the right way. Obviously a challenge beast.

So yeah, I think there is definitely a lot of people are clamoring for Chrissy to come back. I think if you just said like, who should come back? Who's an underrated second placer? I think she would be pretty high up on a lot of people's lists. So spoiler alert,

she's definitely on my list. Yeah. Not to mention not only a challenge, but it's a challenge beast at 46 as well. You know, there's a lot of arguments's lists. So spoiler alert, she's definitely on my list. Yeah, not to mention not only a challenge piece, a challenge piece at 46 as well. You know, there's a lot of arguments as to, oh, how would these people on the later days side of things do in these modern day

survivor challenges? And Chrissy proved that she does incredibly well at them. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life.

You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Let's talk about her partner in crime once the swap happened until the end of the season. Lindsay, what are your thoughts about Ryan? Because again, speaking to maybe the rollercoaster aspect like of the season,

I feel like Ryan basically had two different seasons over the course of one. Yeah, the first thing that comes to my mind even before i re-watched this my first thought about ryan was like we as a fandom destroyed him like he loved a survivor and he wanted to have a wonderful time and we were all like we hate ourselves and we are self-loathing and you and us and let us ruin you it was rough yeah because uh you know initially in the season preview we're like who's this quirky guy with the red turtleneck and who's a bellhop oh this is really fun but it ended up becoming probably one of the most fiery cases i could think of and certainly i would remember from a modern day discourse adam was the one that kind of unfortunately was patient zero

for this but of the fandom i think sometimes being the most vicious to their own, that Ryan was this super duper fan coming into the show. And both people on the island and in the fandom did not necessarily give him the time of day when all was said and done. Yeah. And so I definitely remembered that going in. And so when I went to rewatch it,

I remembered, I think I thought of him as like very game body and he didn't have a good social game. and i think he did have a pretty good social game where he had really strong relationships with a lot of people he was just really bad at managing them so it would be like i'm gonna make you my best friend and then blindside you horribly so you would never vote for me so definitely that was a gap in his game but a lot of people did seem to like him along the way like he was getting along great with Chrissy and Ellie and Devin. Obviously he had him and Devin connection.

I mean, him and Devin were also like the key cogs in pretty much the entire post-merge, right? Ryan and Devin are going to go to every tribal council, pretty much sans two. And they're the ones that are almost always in the center of things, in control. They are this really fun duo that I don't think people would necessarily expect.

Maybe almost a different take on Steven and JT. And again, Ryan comes on super strong in that regard. He's the one who finds the super idol. It's in my pants is a confessional that lives. Yeah. I'm free in my head that he will give to Chrissy to forge this relationship that obviously comes to fruition.

Once the swap ends up hitting. He finds an idol for himself, but yes, he will improperly play, but has the ability to do so, and he gets to the end, and unfortunately from our perspective, it starts off with Desi flat out telling him like, oh, by the way, Ryan, you're not going to win, so you're

going to be disregarded over the course of this. It's down to Chrissy and Ben, which is always rough. Luckily, his bro Devin makes sure he's not a zero-bowl finalist, but metaphorically, he pretty much is. And I go back and forth about it because Ryan himself is somebody who admittedly has not watched Survivor since his season, which is always tough, right? Someone that was just so in love with the game

that he doesn't necessarily want to watch it anymore. He said the mystique is gone in his quarantine questionnaire. But he's also been busy. He went to law school. He has moved on from the bellhop, hopefully being one that buys a suite at said hotel. So there is some interesting stuff, too. What would a 30-year-old Ryan Ulrich look like that a 23 year old Ryan Ulrich did not bring on the other side of things looking

from a practical production perspective to speak towards that archetype again Lindsay are there other people that could easily take Ryan's place here yeah I think absolutely I don't think Ryan's getting a call I think there are lots of other

super fan nerds who are clamoring to come back and I'm not necessarily sure that Ryan is the one that they're looking to as their first pick especially if he's not keeping up with the show I think you want someone who is still diehard super fan I've watched all 50 seasons I've never missed an episode yeah so yeah I don't know I don't see it. Yeah, for what it's worth, he does say in his quarantine questionnaire, if the timing was right, I would consider one more shot where basically he's like, I'm remembering back to when I was bright eyed, bushy tailed, young super fan.

And I still want Jeff to read my name the most amount of times at the live reunion, which maybe that dream is a little bit gone, just given the state of the survivor reunion. But I think, unfortunately, I would not consider Ryan one of the survivor reunion but i think unfortunately i would not consider ryan one of the the first couple tiers of candidates to put on the list here yes i would agree and i will say since you mentioned the reunion this was the worst reunion

i've ever seen it was like seven minutes long that's the thing it's like it really picked her poison between this which was i think tier point 20 minutes long and a good part of it is like highlighting the ben ptsd story and bringing on on Marines to talk about it versus the Karamoan reunion, which is full length, but an absolute shit show. Right. Pick your poison. Exactly. Well, let's move into our jury here. And I think there's going to be some really interesting candidates to talk about. So working our way up from the beginning, we have the aforementioned Desi. We have her fellow healer in the form of Cole Metters. We

have the enigmatic firefighter JP of the heroes. One was asked to strip naked. And things like that in the premiere. We have the self-proclaimed Bodega Tony in one half of the coconuts in Joe Mena. We have the

crab fisher woman who ended up kind of taking America's hearts by storm over the course of her season in Lauren Rimmer. We have the lifeguard voted right out before the finale in Ashley. We have sex doctor himself. Knock, knock. It's Dr. Mike. And we have our fallen

angel in Devin Pinto. And yet Devin is such a unicorn. It's so odd because we have certainly had before the bro-y lackadaisical surfer types. And we have certainly had them afterwards, but there's, there's something about Devin. Like Devin kind of has that riz.

He immediately had Josh enamored with him in the first One Out interview. Everyone slowly fell in love with him as he just kind of took things as they came. He was the guy who unfortunately was given not an advantage. He was the guy who was given that epic shot of him lying on his back in pure starvation as the drone showcased his pure misery.

But he was also someone who was incredibly well positioned throughout the post merge, even in a period of time when Ben kept playing idols and, you know, trying to, to foist the target onto others.

The only time Devin was really in the line of fire was at the final five. And he makes this awesome move where Ben is claiming he has an idol. Chrissy says, it's not true, but Devin decides to be a little cautious. He decides that he's just going to throw a vote onto Mike. Ben's going to try to vote

for Devin. He plays his idol correctly. As a result, it's a one-to-one tie, and because he is locked in with Chrissy and Ryan, he goes from Ben pulling off what he just did with Lauren to him to giving himself a fighting chance and having his alliance get rid of Mike over him. It's a low key, brilliant move that I don't think necessarily gets talked about for a guy that's a little low key as well in terms of his impact on Survivor, I think.

Yeah, Devin is someone who I think is very high on the list of people who would have been brought back if there had been a returnee season pre-new era stuff. I think definitely that move holds up incredibly well. Still absolutely loved it. And then, you know, Dr. Mike looking at him like, did you write down my name? And he's like, yeah, I'm sorry. Like you feel that he actually does feel bad about it, but he's like, no, I have so much game. It's an incredible move. I love it. You mentioned his charisma. It just like oozes off the screen.

Totally enamored with Devin by the end of this rewatch. He's great. I absolutely love rewatching Devin. He had so much game. So charming. Delightful. I really think that he is in the conversation. Yeah.

And you could argue that again, had this final four fire making twist not exist, obviously Ben gets easily voted out for a three to one and there is an argument as to basically whether devon or chrissy would win that this is a guy who seemed to cultivate a lot of relationships but again the edit that we were being given more so showed chrissy as like the outright strategic force so maybe it would be like the strategy of Chrissy versus the social of Devin. I know that's kind of a black and white way of looking at their games

and who would necessarily prevail. I think that Devin might get it, especially just given the way that the jury had viewed Chrissy. So yeah, to your point, again, if something like 40 was a returnee season, I could see that didn't involve winners. I could see Devin coming back there.

He is someone who I'm not sure if he's actively kept up with Survivor. It seems like he's living a very happy life now. I've been checking his Instagram and it seems like he's married with a child and is just having a joyous time. What should be noted is that back when he

was booted at the end of 2017, Devin said that he would only play Survivor again as a blood versus water season with his mom. The question is, Lindsay, how much are we taking Devin and his word here? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's probably one of those things where like when back in Panama,

when Iris is like, my mom is so important to me and then several years later he was like yeah Terry was right actually my wife is the one I would want to talk to you now this feels a bit like that like maybe he would come back with his wife or maybe he would just come back anyway now that it's it's season 50 who's saying no I don't know if we haven't heard him say specifically recently I kind of think maybe he would come back i also think like you touched on it a bit i think when people talk about chrissy as being completely robbed by the fire making twist i think devon was gonna get it if not ben so i don't know that's just my personal take well let's talk about the person that devon was able to outfox in the end and tie up the vote

against at the final five dr mike now i would Now, I would say, by and large, this is not necessarily like a huge, wacky season of Survivor. This may be one of the exceptions, you know, from the first time when they're on the boat in the premiere and Jeff asks Mike what he does. He goes, I'm a sex doctor. You knew that this guy was going to become

a character force in this season. And he absolutely was. was you know as the game wore on he ends up evading tribal council in the pre-emerge and he takes uh everything that's thrown his way on the chin much like the dirt on his uh lessened yellow shirt over the course of this season he's the one that when the healers are struggling that is going to make this big play of ben calling him what like the statue of liberty and also king arthur at the same time he'll eventually he calls himself statue of liberty he's like america is going to take over this time yes and so he does have these again colorful metaphors to talk about this quirky

personality and he does get brought into the fold around the final seven where joe's gone mike looks a little less threatening and everyone's like okay we gotta take out ben And he does get brought into the fold around the final seven where Joe's gone. Mike looks a little less threatening and everyone's like, OK, we got to take out Ben next. And even then, Mike still has some chaos to his name where Lauren has that two half idol thing going on and gives half to Mike. And Mike just throws it in the fire just out of pure mayhem. So I would say from like a strategic perspective, I don't know if Mike is necessarily someone you would want to bring back for that. He's a character. If he has shown from his many podcast appearances since,

especially with Rob, he is absolutely shot out of a cannon at all times. And he also says that in his quarantine questionnaire, when asked if he would want to come back, he says, I think about playing again every day, every day. I think of new strategies i can use

and new ways i can change and reinvent the game i have not won yet so yes i would play again and if i ever did i would give the fans exactly what i think they want wow it's like another mike is here with me incredible we just are able to channel each other so effectively it's like the uh i don't know it's like the the upside down has those sort of fungal roots that reach out and all connect the mics have that as well this is just like that yes exactly um in re-watching i had forgotten what a an agent of chaos dr mike was where i think i remembered like especially with his retp appearances i think you're like okay he was wacky and funny and he talked about being a sex doctor and that was his favorite thing to talk about but i'd forgotten all of these absurd things or just every now and then he'd be like,

I'm kind of bored. I'm just gonna like throw half an idol in there in the fire. And like every now and then it seemed like he starts off the season being like, I want to be one of the best players ever. I want to play a perfect game. And then it's almost like he gets carried away by the fact that he wants to make good TV tv so he throws away half the idol like for no strategic value he's just like i've always wanted to do that and it's like yeah but should you have i also probably doesn't help that again he sat on his hands for the entire first half of the season where he doesn't go to tribal council with the healers and then on the yawa tribe it's like him and cole and jessica together and then he's immediately put on the

back foot once jessica desi and cole all go in. And then he's immediately put on the back foot once Jessica, Desi and Cole all go in a row. And so he immediately goes from like kind of laid back goofy to like feisty goofy. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. He gets a feisty is a good word.

I think he definitely starts trying to agitate people. He turns into a bit of an antagonist, but up against Joe, it's like they kept in the douchey guy or whatever to go back to. Oh, man, that's a deep cut. Right. Oh, my God. Would you want to see Dr. Mike come back for Survivor 50?

He's definitely on the list of people that I have in my surprisingly long short list where if we're just looking at characters like Dr. Mike is absolutely a major character, especially down the line. I think he is worth discussing. I agree as well. I think he is one of the standout characters of Survivor Heroes, Healers, Hustlers. I am intrigued. You know, obviously it's seven years ago, but if you were to ask somebody,

who do you remember from this season? It would probably go like Ben,rissy and maybe dr mike as third which goes to show again kind of the staying power of his character he's someone who is obviously incredibly hungry to come back and would provide that sense of chaos almost like when they brought back debbie for game changers that you kind of knew what you were getting in seeing her do it again even after she had the opportunity to watch back her game and see if she could change it from there i still think mike would bring what we think he would bring considering again the way he has conducted himself on podcast since yeah and i think he fits in well with the like new era villainy kind of thing that we need where it's

just like silly antagonizing people as opposed to you know burning socks or whatever let's talk about lauren rimmer because rimmer fever was blazing during the fall of 2017 this was someone that i think coming in a lot of people thought would probably be an early boot you know she is someone that kind of sticks out like a sore thumb where yes she is only 35 years old but she's kind of like it's her mike it's her mike uh no sorry it's her on the hustlers tribe and then she's just kind of surrounded by a bunch of young people and so it's almost like okay she's gonna stick out too much again she's not old she's older she's 35 but like any reason to get rid of somebody early on but instead the tribe kind of rallies around lauren to the extent where lauren seemingly is the one to lead the charge to

kind of turn the tide and get rid of patrick and she has forever more kind of vehemently put in the meme of not trusting redheads into the survivor lexicon i remember in 46 when you know everyone on and off screen were warning people about kenzie like did you not listen to Lauren Rimmer don't trust the redheads maybe that's one reason why Kenzie had to dye her hair after her win but Lauren was someone that held a surprising amount of power in the game again we get to this point

in the men merge when her Devin Ashley and Ben all go on this sort of like double date throwing a reward and they say, all right, we're all going to work together. Now we're going to flip the game on its head. Chrissy, Ryan, JP, they're too powerful of a trio.

Let's go ahead and take them out. And Lauren again was able to assume power in that moment. Even in the round that she goes, she's finding advantages, right? She's the first one ever to do the bank a vote where she purposely doesn't vote in a tribal council to get an extra vote she's the one who finds this weird half idol thing where like half of it was at a challenge and she had to give another half to somebody else and dr mike destroys it much like her game is destroyed when her friendship with ben obviously

breaks apart when she is part of the whole uh group of turncoats to eventually get rid of king arthur or at least try to and he sends her out with one single vote the first time in survivor history that someone was idled out with just a single vote so in the moment people were understandably me as well i'm sure you too, Lindsay, in love with this. This is a very different type of person that we usually see dominate the game of Survivor, especially in that era. And so people were chomping at the bit to have her back. Maybe it's due to this season being seven years ago

or due to Lauren not really having much of a social media footprint and not really participating in the discourse. But it does kind of feel like Lindsay, the the clamor for Lauren Rimmer has kind of faded away in the past half decade. Yeah, the thing that struck me while I was rewatching is I do think that Lauren was superseded by Elaine. I think that she got sort of carried away by that and just sort of got forgotten a little bit. Just recency bias being what it is. And then new era. And who remembered her?

Even I had forgotten about her. I forgot about the white hat and it magically staying white. Yes, I love that compared to Dr. Mike's shirt. It felt like almost a laundry commercial of like, don't try this detergent. Look at your yellow shirt. Try this one. Her white hat stays clean through, what was it, 33 days. Right, exactly. Yeah. And yeah, she definitely had more game than I remembered. Like you were

talking about, she kind of flips it and makes it. So there's that seven person thing where she's suddenly saying like, all right, we seven are obviously not all making it to the end. Let's flip this game on its head. And she was really leading the charge on that. And I had completely forgotten that. I thought she was just kind of a folksy fun character that we all loved which she absolutely was but she also had some game and yeah I really do think that it was just someone like Elaine came along and probably there are others who I'm forgetting but Elaine is who comes to mind immediately as like she sort of replaced Lauren in our hearts as far as that archetype goes but I will always remember her talking about the horseshoe crab thing in the preseason.

Yes, absolutely. That was like the horseshoe crab mating, I think it was, or the blood. The blood. You could use it for like medicinal purposes. They have some very specific healing powers. Yeah. So it's tough because I would say that Lauren, if we're talking about other players superseding their archetype,

I mean, again, we could say what we said about Ryan for Lauren, but Lauren for me is almost like the wish part of the wish list coming out with no offense to Ryan of like, Lauren is this kind of uncovered gem in a 2024 lens of Heroes, Healers, Hustlers that not enough people talk about

that I would push more to the forefront of my list even if I acknowledge to your point that there is one person coming four seasons later that will kind of do what Lauren's doing and garner obviously a much more attention for it culminating in some sea of money yeah absolutely well to that point actually let's talk about joe mena for a second because joe stum even heard this before is a bald guy with a beard who kind of has a bit of a dominating attitude talks really quickly it's hyper aggressive about finding idols and making big shows at tribal council and so joe is you know making hey while the sun shone from he and, you know, talk about Mike's chaos. Dr. Mike is a guy who immediately starts hunting for an idol

as soon as he gets back to camp. And like Joe clocks him about it, even though they will eventually become each other's closest allies. Joe will pull off the first quote unquote, probably big move of the season. If you don't count Lauren turning the game against Patrick, when down in numbers at the swap, he's able to purposely draw votes onto himself

by being antagonistic at tribal council so that he can play the idol on himself and they can get rid of Alan in the process and secure the numbers. And Joe is, and that's saying something considering his closest ally is Dr. Mike, probably the most outspoken of the two, especially when it came to his feelings

about somebody like Chrissy and somebody like ben again the question i would have for you about joe is once again if we were bringing people back a few seasons from now i think joe would ping a lot on productions radar as somebody who had this willingness and eagerness to make moves to play the game to find and play advantages like it was nothing, has time worn on by the fact that now he's kind of put away on the toy shelf with all the Tony clones we have seen over the course of Survivor. Yeah, I think definitely the latter, where I think he really, it's almost like he did himself a disservice by leaning so hard into the Tony comparisons, because coming into my rewatch,

I was like, yeah, he's the guy who's just wanted to be just like Tony. And he even kind of looks like Tony. And then he doesn't really land for me, at least. He doesn't, he's not constantly at their finding idols. He's not making spy shacks. He's just kind of like Tony without the charm. Like everybody talked about how much they love Tony and it was like, in spite of myself, he was super annoying, but I liked him anyway. And this guy, it was just like, oh, you were so mean. And like he gets into an awful argument with Ben, you know, questionable whether he actually

said like mean things about Ben being in the Marines right after we got shown stuff about Ben's post-traumatic stress, whether that actually happened, unclear in the edit, but like, that's not good. That's a tough look.

He's quite mean to Chrissy. He doesn't get along with like, at times he's trying to be nice to Desi, but Desi's like, this guy is tanking my game. And so, I don't know. I feel like he does get sort of overlooked,

I think for some of the other Tony clones that maybe pop a little bit more. Yeah, and we talked about this a bit with some other seasons that Joe, to me at least, and people can feel free to disagree with me in the comments, feels like one of these people that is good to kind of leave

in Survivor Heroes, Healers, Hustlers, that he served his purpose, he played his role in this season, and I don't necessarily feel like I need to see him for a second time and again all this is interesting because i think if we had done this entire exercise like two years after healers healers hustlers aired it could be okay yeah joe's definitely someone i want to bring back but maybe it's just sort of the it's the opposite of like absence makes the heart grow fonder we're

getting to see so many other different types of players come after joe make this kind of look back on him and say listen he created entertainment for the season i don't know if it warrants necessarily a second appearance yeah definitely and even before i did my rewatch joe was on my short list of people to be watching because i i think i had an idea of like who do people want to see again and i figured people would probably want to at least have a conversation about joe but yeah i feel like i agree with you completely you said it very well just maybe we leave him where he is in season 35 it's good old 2017 i do want to talk about the person that joe was maybe uh shackled to and getting all the nerves up at a certain point i want to talk about desi and i would imagine if you're only a survivor fan you would be like why I would say of the healers

perhaps besides Rourke Desi is one of them that had the least amount of air time where I believe she wins the first individual immunity and then she loses the second one and they vote her out basically because of it is a little bit of a confusing vote if I do remember correctly where it's like surprisingly scattered but other than that and some choice quotes about Chrissy in her postseason press Desley I think has largely gone a bit unremembered

in the course of specifically Survivor however this is where we bring the challenge back in so Desley has been on both seasons so far of the challenge USA and honestly from my perspective this seemed to be much more of a preferable show to her uh where in the first season you know she is someone that is able to dominate from a physical perspective obviously

very well respected by her competition and is able to to rack up a nice resume and honestly gets out of the game in an incredibly stupid bullshit way where she's randomly assigned the Meow Meow Enzo as a partner in the final for a swimming leg where Enzo refuses to swim and ends up quitting the game and Desi is dragged out by Proxy just because she was partnered with him in that moment. Even though the rest of the final, they had an uneven number of people and had one person run a leg by themselves desi had to go out with enzo and she was so devastated she luckily gets a chance a second chance in season two where it goes even better for her she does have a couple of moments of struggle from like a mental health

perspective but she puts together an incredibly dominant game as part of a group of survivor girls that pretty much runs the entire season makes it to the final and beats her allies plus a challenge veteran to win the season and so on the one hand it's a little bit like okay desi's popping for me more on screen than i would think and i also was surprised looking at her quarantine questionnaire even before all that when asked if she would return again she put in all caps absolutely it was the experience of a lifetime i often describe it the same way women with multiple kids describe childbirth while in the moment i was often miserable but after the fact i fell so in love with the experience that i wouldn't mind doing it over and over again.

So on the one hand, there is maybe something interesting, as we talked about with a good amount of Challenge veterans, as to, okay, what would Desi bring now that she has a Challenge championship under her belt? On the other hand, I feel like from my perception of watching her on the challenge usa season two the thing she struggled with the most was lying and deceiving people she really and she even expressed that to me in a post-win interview was like that she did not necessarily like having to go back on her word that she promised tori something and then ends up voting her into elimination. And so, again, I would love to see Desi on my screen and maybe in the section towards the end, I will just say, like, put her permanently on the challenge at a stable

because she's an absolute beast in that regard. On the other hand, I don't want to necessarily, like, revoke her the opportunity if she is so adamant about playing. But given all that, part of me is saying, like, is Survivor really the game for you desi yeah desi was someone who i very much had my eye on in the rewatch where i didn't watch the season that she won of the challenge but i did watch the first one where she got absolutely hosed and couldn't agree more her sobbing and like begging enzo not to quit heartbreaking so I'm so glad she got to go

back and got to win and I'm also very happy to hear that she had a good time on Survivor that makes me very happy Desi seems like a wonderful person yeah and congratulations her recently married at the time we're talking yeah and just like watching the final tribal council she's sort of like everybody starts picking at each other in this really unpleasant way and she shuts it down and she goes I just want to remind everyone this this isn't real life. You can still trust people when you get out of here. You can still live your life. And just, I want you to remember that. And I was like, that's the pageant girl in her, is it not? True. Yeah. So yeah. So I was definitely watching for her because I know there are some people

we're putting back because of what they gave us and their first time out. Desi for me is someone where I'm like, what could you give us? I think she has so much potential. She's a huge question mark. She's had more time on reality TV where maybe she's gotten better at like the confessional game or maybe she's just gonna pop more,

like knows how to talk to the camera in a way where maybe she would be shown more. We saw a little bit of the challenge dominance, like she wins. I think the first immunity of the she wins i think the first immunity of the season is hers the first immunity and like yeah i just think she has that skill set very glad to hear she had a good time however if she was struggling with the trust part i didn't know about that so maybe i don't know she's another one who i think she was definitely on

my short list of people to consider but is she one who we maybe want to think about letting her protect her piece? I don't know. Yeah, well, let's see. We can definitely talk about it towards the end. I don't want to necessarily broad brush Ashley, Cole, JP, are like part of our like resident young hot squad here on the journey. I mean, Cole is definitely somebody that had a major impact in the pre-merge. Definitely one of

the most visible characters, even though he doesn't go to tribal council, of course, with his showmance with Jessica, with him passing out in the fire, nearly towards the fire during that one point, and then being taken out right after he gets into that wrestling mass with

Chrissy over the idol that's under the flag. JP was a walking meme back when Survivor Twitter was kind of coming alive. And Ashley is someone that I always kind of had a soft spot in my heart for. Was she the biggest character or personality? No, but she was always someone that I think was always like a good go with person, was somebody that kind of got unfairly lumped in with JP in the beginning of the game but then got in good with other people got close with Devin obviously with everything that was happening at the swap and was able to parlay that into a pretty good showing do you have any thoughts

about any of these three because all that being said I don't necessarily know if any of these three would necessarily be considered for 50 yeah I don't think we need to spend too much time on any of these three. I think Ashley and JP are arguably the most boring showmance in Survivor history. Like, it's not even real, really. We just get kind of like a innuendo double entendre thing that landed on the RHAP soundboard from Ashley. But like, that's kind of it. But yeah, I agree.

I think I enjoyed watching Ashley thought she seemed like she had a little bit you know gas in the tank or whatever Cole was funny to watch because he just like couldn't keep his mouth shut he thought he had so much game but would just like blurt things out immediately everyone hated how much he ate

thing where he falls down that was kind of entertaining but yeah I don't know we don't need to see these people again all right well then let us move into our final where he falls down. That was kind of entertaining. But yeah, I don't know. We don't need to see these people again. All right. Well, then let us move into our final group here. The pre jury. And this is an interesting group of characters. So we're getting our way up from the beginning. We have former Olympic

swimmer and first one out Katrina Radke. We have Simone, who I think is most well known for what like pooping in the ocean and announcing it. Maybe that's right. We have, of course, the kind of like a man on fire and not only his hair, but like the way he was behaving in Patrick.

We have almost similar, a chaos agent in former NFL player, Alan ball. We have, of course, someone who has become a podcast guest staple here on Rob has a podcast after her boot in roar. We have Allie Elliott, who is someone I definitely want to talk about as someone who had a little

bit of a shock boot as someone who was such a vocal part of the narrative for the first half of the season. And we have someone who ultimately lasts the entire game without going to tribal council. And the first one she goes to, she's immediately picked up as the merge boot. And the first time for a while that the merge boot did not make the jury in the form of Jessica. Where do you want to start here, Lindsay? Let's just start with Allie, I think. She was my winner pick, I think, going into this season.

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. She was somebody who what she was a celebrity assistant at the time, if I'm remembering correctly. So obviously she was someone who talked up a lot of her networking skills, a lot of her, for lack of a better term, hustling. And as much as I talk about like Devin and Ryan kind of being personified as the center of the hustlers, Allie almost seemed to be like the voice box of it. It felt like we got a lot of Allie in the pre-merge and maybe you can

contest that, but it felt like we got so much from her perspective maybe it's just because she kind of had that magnetic way of talking but it really did seem like she was someone that was in control of her tribe and was ready to take it all over and then the swap hits and her two bros and ryan and devin hop over with chrissy and jp she's left with rourke who ends going. And then when her tribe loses again, Allie is an easy person to get picked off. And I certainly remember in the moment, a lot of people were clamoring for the return of Allie,

saying there was a lot of missed potential there, that she was a robbed pre-merge G.Ottis. How does she reflect nowadays from your perspective, Lindsay? Yeah, I think she was great. Definitely, we got a lot of her in the pre-merge. She was a really good narrator for what was going on. She had that relationship with Ryan that was a bit surprising for me to see. I'd forgotten that she's just like completely the reason her game gets tanked. Or certainly she feels that way. She, I think, was good in challenges. She seemed to get along with everybody pretty well. I think probably she's someone who would get left behind. This does feel like a wish

in wishlist kind of pick, but I think she's a great pick. I think there's a lot more that we could see from her. She had a ton of potential. I thought she was very, very good. She had a lot of game and yeah, a great narrator. And I think we're going to need those. Yeah, I think potential is a great way to put it. This was someone who set things up really well in those first three episodes, only to have them kind of dismantle in those latter three, much like that challenge that they did where they were all holding the ropes

and stacking the blocks together to get pizza. When asked if she would play again, Allie said, it would have to be the right time in my life. I debate this all the time. Now, if I got asked to do blood versus water with my sister, I'd make it the right time haha but i sure do love the show and it would be truly hard to say no lindsey what is this with these people

saying like i have one thing on my writer and it's that i must play a game where i may have to vote out my loved one yeah right exactly like she and devon are like we will only do blood versus water it's the only theme we will allow they're gonna be sad to learn that there are no more themes but um one other thing with ellie is like she knew patrick going in and she was like ah yes this will help me and then patrick was just like oh god if i bring this up then they're gonna kick me off the show so i think she thought that it would be helpful and he just didn't do that at all so well it's tough yeah because they both went to college together right they both went to auburn and i think patrick actually moved ali in and she actually talked about this in her quarantine questionnaire that especially in

retrospect she was really not happy with how that all transpired because like yes on paper could give you an inherent connection and again in most situations it means that you probably would be able to protect each other but patrick was such a wild card at that point that ally felt it was kind of dragging down her game where she eventually just cuts bait and when lauren's like oh it's time for him to go she's like sure that's fine go ahead i have much better prospects to go to now i'm moving into a new house right now patrick yeah when she sort of hitched her wagon to him it was like oh no what have i done it turns out he's just like this anchor on her game absolutely dragging her down so not to mix my metaphor too aggressively there but um yeah i think if she had been with someone else who was maybe a bit more predictable and had a bit more

game savvy than sure but like patrick was not your guy how about jessica johnston and yeah it sucks because jessica's narrative and you can speak to this more so, Lindsay, does feel it was almost entirely centered around this flirt man with Cole. I think it's just because, again, we really hadn't seen that for a while on the show that you could tell producers were just kind of biting at every little single piece of showman's bait that would hit the water. And so, unfortunately, that becomes the limit of Jessica's storyline, considering that she gets voted out at the first and only tribal council that she attends. And so I do feel like she was a little robbed from that perspective. Jessica is also somebody that has done a lot since her time on the show. She is currently 37. She's gotten married. She had a child last year. What are your thoughts about Jessica?

Jessica is someone who exactly what you're saying i was like it's her and cole they have this silly little flirt mance my kisses are very private she like kisses him on the cheek i remember there was a lot made at the time of her being a virgin and it was like all right so we're gonna engage with this oh yeah everything old is new again on survivor exactly exactly right. And so I remember that's all I remembered about her going in. But she was so much more engaged in the strategy than I remembered. She

was delightful. I found her very charming in all of her confessionals. Very fun narrator. She like finds an advantage in her chip bag and the way she narrates it is really cute. She got a bit tanked by the fact that Cole couldn't keep a single secret. And he's like, I'm going to use her secret as my secret. And it's going to be perfect.

So I think maybe if she hadn't been connected to him so much, maybe it would have played out better for her. But Jessica is actually someone I would be maybe interested in seeing again. And I don't think I thought that coming in. But she was really good. She seemed like she had some game. And like her engagement in it was really what struck me. It was really good she seemed like she had some game and like her engagement in it was really what struck me it was like she seems like she loves the game she seemed like she's having a ton of fun out there i don't know i think there's something here i think there is something there and again there's this idea of much like ali a little bit of raw potential of maybe she was not as vocally strategic as ali was but it did kind of feel like she had just gotten started in the

game she was finally going to her first tribal council and then she's voted out because she is sort of like, well, all of these other healers, you know, maybe there's a chance that Cole has an idol or something and maybe we'll vote out Jessica because she's the least likely to sort of get something played on her. Also, I think there was probably talk about like her being a

threat socially as well. So she is definitely someone that like maybe if this was a shallower cast i could consider as like a possible second chance potential and who knows maybe she's someone who ends up a wild card let us know your thoughts in the comments i think compared to other people on this season i don't necessarily see it but she yet again i feel like her alley could kind of show up on that fictional season 40 as in every returning season when it's like oh here's sort of a random pre-merge to mid-merge young woman who's beautiful in a bikini like i feel like one of them could

have showed up and filled that spot if that had happened yeah exactly because then you can portray someone like jessica it's like she flirted her way out of the game, just like Andrea or whatever. So, yeah, I could definitely see that she fills that role for casting. But yeah, very much surprised by how much more there was to her game. And I'm glad we are giving her her due here. Someone that I have heard talked about for a little bit, as you know, someone i would like to see again is alan ball i think alan drove everyone kind of up the wall in the moment where i think the first episode is called like i'm not crazy i'm confident and it was quoted by alan when he just goes absolutely bananas in the first

episode where again he accosts jp and ashley at night being like oh are you scheming with each other you have an idol. Show me. Do a strip search. Take off your pants. Show me you don't have an idol. He goes into a bit of a diatribe at tribal council as well,

which I think in the moment kind of led people to believe, oh, maybe Katrina's not going to be the one to go. She still ends up going. And for someone that causes as much fireworks as Alan in those first couple episodes,

it's a little surprising that he ends up kind of basically idled out of the game and actually kind of outdone by Joe in being such a big showman at tribal council in the process unfortunately for those that are interested in seeing you know maybe a season of former athletes coming back Alan did say in his quarantine questionnaire I think the first year off the show, I probably would have returned. Now, not so much. I just don't think I'd want to be gone for that long again. Well, it's not as long now,

so something to consider. There you go, Alan. Yeah, I don't know. Alan, for me, was someone who I remembered that he had this kind of blow up thing with Ashley and JP and I remembered it being silly and kind of based in nothing with Ashley and JP. And I remembered it being silly and kind of based in nothing. But then I thought to myself, we've sort of interrogated

survivor editing. Perhaps this portrayal of Alan was not actually accurate. And I was like, no, it does seem like he was kind of doing this on purpose. But he says repeatedly, he's like, I know there's nothing going on. I just want to be like by the way they're a power couple i just want everyone to know it pay no attention to the actual power couple in ben and chrissy right exactly yeah he was just like all right i guess let's just see if this is anything and try to like shake something loose from jp literally oh boy uh well speaking towards the other four briefly again i don't want to necessarily broad brush but rourke i absolutely love her she's again a fantastic person to talk reality tv with i think unfortunately from an

editing perspective she like jessica goes in her first tribal council gets pretty swap screwed and i think unfortunately is a little unmemorable because of that patrick is a big character but i think much like joe is somebody that could kind of live in this season in his wild three episodes. And it's not necessarily somebody that I would want to see come back for a second try. I would much rather see Alan's chaos or Dr. Mike's chaos than Patrick's chaos. And then Simone and Katrina, unfortunately, they both seem like lovely people. But I really do think if you look back on this season, they are probably two of the least remembered and conveniently enough are the first two boots from it.

Yes, I would be very interested to know if Katrina has the fewest confessionals of any first boot in Survivor history because I don't think she had any. Yeah, considering that it was basically like, oh, she's lumped in with Chrissy and we're going to vote Katrina out. Yeah, they were like, oh, it's the mom squad. And then apparently talking to Chrissy after the season, she was

like, no, that was just like a thing they said to give a reason. Yeah, exactly. Well, we have a lot of reasons to give, Lindsay. And so the time has come. So you talked about your ever-growing short list, but let's shorten it up a little bit. So the good news is we have up to five people to put on here. Let's talk about maybe a couple of communally agreed names.

Chrissy is on the list. Chrissy has to be on the list, no doubt. I think there was a, it's in the back of my mind that there was like an RHAP survey something where it was like, who should come back from season 35? And Chrissy was like number one with a bullet. So even the fans want her. So let's put Chrissy

on the list. Why don't you offer up another name here for discussion? Okay. Can we pretend that Devin is open to playing Survivor, even if it's not blood versus water? Or are we taking him at his word that it must be blood versus water with his mom? You know what? No. I know that I've been picking people literally.

But A, that was said seven years ago. And B, to your point your point like i think this is different than people like yule who says i would only do it if it was a charity season or ian saying i would only do it if it was the last season they gave away a five million dollar prize that i just think in the moment maybe devon was somebody who wanted to bring someone else who loves survivor in his mom along for the ride but i do do think if we do live in the Shangri-La where he gets an offer for Survivor 50, I think it's just such a momentous occasion that he couldn't say no to it. And this is maybe again, and maybe with the next person I'll be suggesting putting more

of the wish in wish list. But I can't not take the opportunity to vote for Devin Pinto here, considering how much of an underrated player he is in the retrospect of Heroes, Healers, Hustlers. I agree. I think we really, really need to see Devin again. Let's see if he can do some more incredible moves. He's so good here. That hinky vote, I think,

sets up a lot of moves in the future. This is an important person. Let's bring him back. How about his fellow hustler in Lauren? You know, I think we made the case that weren't an actual thing. There's a chance that someone else or maybe a couple of other people could get cast over her but again I'm taking this opportunity to be like let's put her on the ballot I would be intrigued

to say because I would imagine that Elaine's going to make the ballot as well who sort of outperforms here and I just want to give the community an opportunity to fall back in love with Lauren like we did seven years ago yeah no I no, I think that is a no brainer. Everybody loved her so much and watching it back. I completely understand why. And I remember liking her myself, liked her a lot again. Yeah, let's put Lauren on the list. OK, so then I feel like there are a couple of other names we could go about here.

There's Dr. Mike, there's Jessica, there's Allie. Is there anyone you feel like really good about either from a production perspective or a desirability perspective that you want to put on here? Yeah, so in terms of my actual large shortlist, I have Desi, Dr. Mike, and Allie as my remaining three people that I think we should discuss. Jessica, I think is great too,

but I don't think that she's, maybe she can be a wild card. Please vote her in. I'd be very happy if, but I don't think that she's, maybe she can be a wild card. Please vote her. And I'd be very happy if people express that. Don't yell at me though. Yeah. So I think those are kind of the three that I would like to discuss. Do you think Desi is like,

who should we leave in challenge land? Yeah, I'm going to leave. I would advocate to leave Desi off for now. If it turns out in the interim that they're either this, this groundswell of movement, or it turns out that Desi herself is like, no, I want to do Survivor. Please let me back.

And maybe I would consider it. But you will hear from Chappelle about this. Oh, absolutely. But any excuse to talk to Chappelle is a good one. I am definitely good with Dr. Mike. I feel like out of those remaining three people, Mike probably stands the best chance of getting asked back considering how big of a character he is. And yeah, I go back and forth on Ali. I think that Ali would be somebody that

from a production perspective would probably be the least likely out of these five. But then also speaking to, again, the quality of why we expanded in the first place, which is like, here are some of these players who never got the chance, and especially for Heroes, Healers, Hustlers, were kind of lost in the sands of time a little bit.

Ali is somebody that could be a very interesting pre-merger to bring back yes i completely agree i think she again is another one of these ones that's a bit of a question mark she has a lot of untapped potential still young still great i think she could do a really good job so i think ally to me seems like the right person to round this out. Okay, let's do it. So yeah, we ended up expanding to five and we made good on the five right now. So the following five people with their ages will be added on to the shortlist. We have a runner up Chrissy Hoffbeck

53, our fallen angel Devin Pinto 31, the guy he got rid of in Dr. Mike Zahalski 50 years old. We have of course one of the fan favorites of the season in Lauren Rimmer, 42. And then finally, we have one of our pre-merged queens in Allie Elliott, 31. Last but not least, Lindsay. Now, some of our other players have dabbled into these categories already,

but is there anyone from this season that you would want to see on another reality show besides survivor so i was trying to think about this ahead of time i was like i am so unfamiliar with most shows however i did have the thought how funny would it be to put lauren and patrick together on the amazing oh my god team red hair do care i mean that would be incredible because patrick again he was the one that seemingly would step up and be like nope i played baseball i know how to do this and lauren's like i played what center field for all these years and nobody's regarding me for it so i think it makes for the the perfect uh kind of toxic but like sometimes entertaining dynamic of the guy

that insists he knows he can do everything and the woman who's like no please i can do this too just give me a chance uh i think that obviously uh desi just put her on the challenge forever because she's a queen yeah absolutely and i mean listen uh maybe maybe she would not want to necessarily do that considering again that uh it kind of seems exhausting to network and especially again to to deceive and backstab but also the challenge proper is all about who you know and maintaining those relationships so i don't know how much desi would actually have to backstab if she moved on to challenge proper true yeah only if she wants it if she wants it give it to her let her have whatever she wants um and put jessica on as uh one of the medical staff on survivor like but no offense to dr will i think it would be fun to just

have like a random alum show up as one of the doctors when someone has a bad fall a la cole yes and what a ray of sunshine on the actual show i think she was quite delightful so like yeah let's let's have her there to brighten up the sad times well this was absolutely delightful lindsey tomorrow we move ahead with a newly bolstered wish list but the question question is, will the five be applied to Survivor Ghost Island? Again, another odd season of the show that is going to sport this big titular twist that looks back on the past seasons of Survivor and kind of replicates past seasons of Survivor. And that we have, in this case, a duo rather than one power player steamrolling their way to the end of the game, but of course, causing the most dramatic final vote in Survivor history, the first ever tie vote. Lindsay, I'm intrigued from your perspective.

Who would be on your short list to come back from the cast of Ghost Island? All right. So I feel like your slam dunk is going to be Dom. He's probably going to be definitely in the conversation. I think Kellen would be someone great to talk about speaking of road to reality. Let's talk about her. Yeah. I don't know who else is even on that. Laurel should probably should be their first tie breaking vote.

Well, we're going to talk about them all. All 20 contestants as I will be joined by the purple pants, badass himself and someone who is occupying a slot on our ballot currently in Bryce Isaiah, considering Bryce and Wendell's relationship. I am really intrigued to see what he has to say about Wendell, about the cast of ghost Island. Maybe he'll have some choice words to me about the Desi of it all.

If word gets back to him, but regardless, he and I are going to be talking about it tomorrow and certainly let us know your thoughts was there anyone that we left off the list that should be brought back as a wild card please sound off in the comments for now Lindsay this was such a great time what would you like to plug for the people out there uh most of my various podcasting endeavors have wrapped up but you can still catch me talking about Futurama on the podcast of tomorrow. There's a whole back catalog of stuff about

Bojack Horseman that Mike appeared on several times, Bojack Horse Pod, so you can go check that out if you want, but otherwise, this is it. Where are you in Futurama at this point? We have about six weeks left in the original series run and then they keep bringing back new seasons and then people are like,

what are you doing? You only have one job to talk about this. I was like, well, in fact, I have a real job. And this is very much not my one job. But anyway, it's fine. So yes, we are closing in rapidly on the Devil's Hands episode. Well, you are truly a hustler in every way, Lindsay, when it comes to creating this content.

So thank you for taking the time to talk with me today about heroes versus healers versus hustlers. Of course, we'll be back tomorrow with Bryce Isaiahce isaiah to talk about the cast of survivor ghost island until next time everybody take care bye