RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Wish List | Ep 40: Winners at War with Rob Cesternino

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

Today, Mike and Rob Cesternino (@robcesternino) discuss Season 40: Winners at War.

Hey Spotify, this is Javi. My biggest passion is music, and it's not just sounds and instruments, it's more than that to me. It's a world full of harmonies with chillers. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk,

an authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600

to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This episode is brought to you by Companion. Iris and Josh seem like the perfect match, but when a weekend getaway turns into a nightmare, Iris realizes that things aren't as perfect as they appear. From the creators of Barbarian and the studio that brought you The

Notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge. Companion, only in theaters January 31st. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Survivor 50 wishlist podcast, an offseason series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming season of Survivor 50. And today, you better be ready. It's time to go back to early 2020. Yes, we have to. It's mandatory to talk about Survivor winners at war the big 20th anniversary season of survivor pulling off a format that a lot of fans thought would have never been done in the form of an all-winner season produced our second

two-time winner ever in tony blacos and at this point was the last returnee season before of course survivor 50 on the horizon so will it spell some tea leaves or spill some tea if you will as to what we might be looking forward to in 50 who is to say but I'm looking forward as always to talking with my guests today and they say I drink before war is always a good idea and I get to talk to this tall drink of water for a bunch of seasons

this countdown and where we're reaching our final one together at least before this ballot concludes with winners at war it is Rob C this ballot concludes with winners at war. It is Rob Sestranino. Winners at war. What is it for? Yeah.

Remember before like Tevin and Soda joined ASCAP, they actually like hired someone to write a theme song for winners at war. Yeah. I mean, survivor pre new era, like the last dregs of the old era, they were trying some stuff. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, pre-new era like the last dregs of the old era they were trying some stuff oh yeah absolutely i mean we got a whole ass survivor currency before crypto was even a thing yes i mean i think it was

a thing i mean it wasn't as mainstream that wasn't as mainstream wasn't as it wasn't as high but yeah people had been uh boy uh i don't know what's the price on the fire token market? I mean, it's tough because we definitely also saw a case of, as they said, a survivor economy and Natalie Anderson becoming the one percent. But in this case, the one percent did not finish number one. Yes. OK, well, she did have the most fire tokens. I don't know. But, you know, Mike, I don't think we're bringing fire tokens uh i don't know if i but you know that mike i don't think we're bringing fire tokens back for season 50 no i mean again if we look in the sliding doors universe of had the pandemic not happened i think a lot of things would have changed about the world and one of them would have been of course as jeff has mythologized season 41 probably would have had required the new

era dawn of the new era uh we have of course like. We have, of course, like the image, right, he had of Rick Devon's General Store where he's selling advantages to people for fire tokens. So suffice it to say, a lot has changed about Survivor since then. And yeah, because of this sort of mandated hiatus that production is on, it allows them to come back with fresh eyes

into the new era and restructure things in probably its biggest way possible and so winners of war really does feel like the sort of like last bastion of the first 40 seasons which feel not entirely different but significantly a true uh celebration of the first 40 seasons of survivor but how instructive will it be for the first 40 seasons of Survivor, but how instructive will it be for the first 50 seasons of Survivor? It's a great question because, look, you have said it, I have said it, a good amount of my guests have said it, that we're not necessarily team legends

when it comes to what we want to see from 50. And one of the reasons why might be the fact that a lot of the people that would be on that cast, we just saw 10 seasons ago. And granted, again, it was a different type of season. It was 39 days. fact that a lot of the people that would be on that cast we just saw 10 seasons ago and granted again it was a different type of season it was 39 days it was all winners the edge of extinction was involved but we we for that mystery of like oh what has happened to this person since survivor appearances we got a lot of those questions answered on this and not just so much that we

just saw them that in winners at war but winners at war was so much presented as like one last ride one let's do a code let's get the gang back together for one last job and like i think that there might be a couple of people that you'd say okay well i don't know if it was necessarily but i think that even the the end of the the line for some people but you know like you had like jeff like asking kim spradlin like in the finale right like uh kim uh what is this is the end of your journey right what is it can you can you uh you know give us an analogy about you at the end of your survivor journey well that's the thing is that a i think a good amount of these people said that they would only come back if there was something on the scale of a winner's or legend season, just because for them, it's like if I go out and play another season, even with people that have only played once or twice, I'm pretty much dead meat because my reputation precedes me.

is uh that obviously they want to keep escalating their appearances not only in fees but also in okay i won this last time you know do i really want to come back for just another regular regular returnee season no you want to come back to see who arguably the ultimate survivor winner is and per diem and i talked about this during second chance that that was such a fun time to be in the survivor community community, getting this chance to truly lend our hand towards the casting process, getting to see all these throwback names. But second to it, or maybe even some circles surpassing it, was all the buildup for Winners at War. Because I'll say it again, this was a theme that Jeff Probst had adamantly said in previous years would not happen for various reasons,

either from a production perspective where he felt like not enough winners would necessarily come back. I think he said at one point he didn't feel like there were enough winners that they felt should come back in a manner of speaking. Leave it to, you know, then president of CBS, Kelly Call, to step in with a suggestion of what to do

for this milestone 20th anniversary. And the impossible was named possible. And we got winners at war, which was Rob. The hype was unbelievable. I remember. I remember. People were very pumped up. We didn't know what it was going to be.

Now, Mike, I hate to like keep coming on these podcasts and saying like you know i could have been there but yeah they didn't know what just like now they didn't know what the theme was going to be and you know i may have gotten a phone call that was like hey what's your like 40 you're you feel you feeling 40 yeah well first off you're like 40 you're you feel you feeling 40 yeah well first off you're like please don't age me too much uh i think i i think i was it would have been a compliment i'm looking quite good for my age at this point but i think that to your point from what i have heard behind the scenes and from various interviews that you've done and other ones it does sound like at one point it was not always going to be winners at war uh certainly

some names that apparently have been brought up as those that were in the mix for casting are some names that we've mentioned before like spencer like russell i believe uh johnny fairplay has said it lex has said it candace cody said on one of your interviews itself rob that she was apparently set to be on the season there have been, Rob, that she was apparently set to be on the season. There have been names that have been thrown out. She was set to be on Survivor 40? That's what she told you, yeah. But there have been other names that apparently

were thrown out for consideration, like Twyla. Yeah, well, I'll tell you my experience of what I think the statute of limitations of this period in our history. So it must have been like so when they they filmed it in 2019. Right.

And about May, May, like May 2019, just set it in the landscape of pop culture. I believe the finale of Game of Thrones was airing by the time this was starting. Right. And so in so they filmed it in 2019, early 2019. I think probably sometime in 2018. I got a phone call that was like, so there's a big

season that's coming up. Are you interested? And I think that my exact answer was like, I'd love to know more. I'd love to know more i'd love to know more please keep me posted okay all right um and that was really it did not hear no again no more they did not hear a lot about um what was what was up but there were things that were like certainly like a buzz uh you know during that time but from what i understand that uh that i and i think that maybe that there was some idea of some different theming of maybe like um you know um like almost like uh didn't win versus

uh something else and i think that they might have been looking at a list and then of course the conversation that you mentioned of like well why don't we get the winners together yeah um and and then i think and then everything changed right that's the thing because i also know that it seems like uh they canvassed a good amount of people from the 30s as well some names that apparently were in consideration were people like Dominic, Chris Noble, Christian, Gabby,

Chrissy, Rick, Angelina. I also know that something was possibly thrown out as like a rivals theme as well, where it's like, Oh, you get Lex and Boston,

Rob, you get Christian and Gabby, you get Chris and Dominic, uh, taking a page maybe out of the challenges book regardless they settled upon honestly a dream theme for survivor fans uh which is okay let's see what happens if we pit arguably some of the best players in survivor history against each other and as a result rob i mean it was a huge season and it came at a huge time i

mean it is so wild to think back to the fact that the world around us was absolutely crumbling things shutting down the state of the world being in the most uncertainty that any of us have faced in our lifetimes but now we have this like nicely nestled time capsule of back in may of 2019 where regardless of how long we have to stay inside at least we're staying inside every wednesday in the spring getting to watch survivor 40 happen it leads to one of the most unconventional reunions ever obviously with tony's second win being revealed over zoom but it's just such a wild thing to again put yourself back in the shoes of march to may 24th yeah now the show did start i believe uh famously february 12th 2020 so there were a good a good first month of the season that wasn't like during covid but then

it ends up being you know um one of the few things where, you know, sports gets shut down, like Survivor really like took show would want to similarly use it as a celebration of survivor the big question will eventually be what does that celebration involve especially now that the all winners theme has kind of been expended i would not imagine winners at war 2 is necessarily on the whiteboard for season 50 i would be very surprised to have any version of winners as a part of the theme but i do think that potentially uh like i don't think it's wild to imagine winners being involved and i do think that even just to go back to we talked about uh survivor game changers recently we had two people from second chances make it to game changers we had plenty of people from fans versus favorites make it to Game Changers. We had plenty of people from Fans vs. Favorites make it to Heroes vs. Villains.

And so sometimes a survivor does like to go back to the recent All-Star season and bring people into the next one. Yeah, very, very true, though. This All-Star season is not incredibly recent, but hey, there might be some faces we at least put on the ballot, which we will go through as well as the cast and listen i don't know if this is a hot take rob i might argue that on paper this is the best cast survivor has ever assembled best cast i mean i think it's kind of a stacked deck um is that i guess maybe the only thing that's probably comparable is heroes versus villains and i feel like at first blush I would say I think heroes versus

villains is better but we can take a look at it. Let's do it shall we? So this first group went in order of origin seasons. These are all of our pre all-stars contestants who returned for their third, fourth, or

fifth season or sixth if you count on the idols on winners at war so of course we have survivors first a really big power couple turned a marriage turned a family that visited them out on the island turned a marriage oh there we go that's one of those winners of war soundbites that has stood the test of time we have of course rob and amber we have sandra especially with sandra showing up in game changer and i think she kind of like broke that barrier of oh would sandra ever appear on the show again after going to for two she had now cashed in on her third appearance since winning

her third appearance in what like six seasons and then i want to start actually with ethan because this was one of the most welcome surprises et Ethan is somebody, and I talked about this on the Africa podcast, that I think even around the time of Winners at War, if you would ask the community, like, who is the most likeable contestant in Survivor history, it would be either Ethan or Sari, between his really affable personality in Africa, as well as, of course, his immense story around his multiple cancer diagnosis

and beating it multiple times over. It was just such an incredible sight to see him back, even if it did not go so well for him, because, again, he has gone through so much between survivor appearances. Sure. That was my winner pick. Also, Ethan. I just thought, who's voting out Ethan?

People, he's beloved! True, though I think he also did clock that nobody's going to let me near the end. Yeah. They didn't let him near the middle. Exactly. I'm here for a good time and hopefully a long time, but I don't know if people are going to let me get to the end for $2 million. Probably

not, but it would be going to a good cause. But I feel like a couple of people we've talked about already and their returnee chances for survivor 50 yeah so rob and sandra are both on the ballot obviously amber was obviously another big surprise because i think the conventional wisdom at the time of winners at war was that like amber had the thoughts of oh survivor is rob's thing right i had my time in the spotlight i took home my million i'll sort of like sit back let him make the career out of reality tv and so i think a lot

of people were surprised to see amber on the season unfortunately like ethan she does not last a long time partially because of her connection with rob what was it like for you to see your old Shapira tribe mate making one of the most long distance returns in Survivor history? So what was nice was I did get to go, there was several weeks, well, not quite several, but there were more than a few weeks of time before COVID really took hold.

And I got to go to a uh premiere event for uh survivor uh when i think actually all four of these people uh were there that night amber ethan rob and sandra and it was nice to get to see uh rob and i i've seen rob many many times over the years but to see rob and amber both there that that was very nice. And so it was really, you know, Amber was just like, you know, a nice like daff of the cap. The Amber, she came out of retirement. Yeah, took the curtain call and then was ultimately not a big part of the season.

So for Survivor 50, we kind of discounted Amber and Ethan just because Ethan has definitely said. I think they're good. Yeah, Ethan said it's very much something he doesn't necessarily need to do again. 50 we kind of discounted amber and ethan just because ethan has definitely said good yeah ethan said it's very much something he doesn't necessarily need to do again obviously the edge had a major impact on him and to your point yeah i think amber showed up for this you know fun concept to possibly play alongside her husband she did arguably live by living on the edge of extinction with him for most of the game but i think she's more than happy to see the reality TV career back to him.

Yeah, and then I think they're fine. Their life is fine. We don't have to worry about Amber or Ethan for Survivor 50. I don't think I've asked you about this at this point. What do you think the chances are of Boston Rob coming back to Survivor ever? So I think you never bet against it.

I think that there certainly is a world where both Rob rob who just came off of a great season of the dealer no deal island clearly he still has it sandra as well just coming off of the traders it's interesting to have seen uh both of them go out and we have most recently seen them as like play really good games on other shows and boston rob about to keep in the Peacock family by appearing on the traders. And then he's going to be on the traders too. So I feel like that both for them and for survivor,

that they're just like these X's that just keep getting back together over and over again. And, you know, like at some point, like they're going to one of them is going to show up on Survivor again that doesn't happen here

I think I'd prefer it as you know we've talked about many times now of I'd love to see this this Survivor 50 be second chances and then you know bring back the the real heavy hitters for a different season with other three-time players if there was one

of the two that would probably come back i'd say it probably would be sandra more you know rob has been the one that's been more on record to say if i come back it has to be for a very specific theme i mean also looking at the way winners of war went right like rob i think on paper it looks like oh he just tried the same thing got eliminated i do think the more you look into it, the more that like this guy had his reputation preceding him a bit and, you know, did the best he could. Sandra is somebody who low key screws herself out of the game by playing a bit too hard and does this whole thing with Denise. So there's more unfinished business, I would say, with Sandra than boss. Yeah, I think so, too. So there's more unfinished business, I would say, with Sandra than Bob. Yeah, I think so, too.

I think that there's probably more runway for Sandra to come back and do well in a return appearance than for Rob. I think it would be very it would be almost unimaginable to come up with a scenario where he's set up well on a future survivor season. All right. Maybe with a bunch of amnesiacs. All right. Let's go into our next group here. These are all the people who first started on Survivor between All-Stars and Heroes vs. Villains. And in fact, two of them were on Heroes vs. Villains. We, of course, in Parvati and Tyson.

But I want to talk about two of the bigger surprises first. And maybe one of the biggest surprises of them all rob danny freaking boat right because survivor guatemala for the longest time was this prize made of a season one of the rare survivor seasons that did not have anybody representing them with the exception of stephanie but even her kind of being designated a hero and heroes versus villains maybe shows that guatem Guatemala was being a bit ignored. But, I mean, arguably, perhaps they were running a bit low from their perspective on possible options

for female winners to bring on. We land Danny Bo Wright, the person who purposely beat the radar, who sort of said, go ahead, production, I'll give you nothing, to not show her hand at all when it came to what she would want to do with the returnees and so a lot of people

including the Guatemala lover and myself never thought she'd get a chance to come back and were greatly surprised when she did yeah Danny Boatwright big surprise for Survivor Winners at War happy to see her get the shot to come back and play after she'd said I would only come back for an all winner season well Survivor was

like bet yeah put your money where your mouth is, even though you will not get the money. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword.

It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Another very, very welcome return from Yul Kwon. I i mean yule was incredibly beloved on his original season of cook islands maybe not as beloved by the audience as aussie who gave him the fan favorite prize uh but yule part of that huge underdog alliance the main strategic force of the season

i think for a while a lot of people thought yule wouldn't come back partially due to just all the great stuff he was doing in the outside world this guy was being prolific he worked in the freaking white house for a while why the hell would he come back to an island of course now we sort of know through him talking about it who voluntarily gives up a spot at the white house yes exactly come on but you'll uh said you'll be back to see me on Survivor. And we find out, of course, on the island, at least part of it was due to him spreading awareness for ALS, as the shirt I'm wearing today shows the ALS research fundraiser that Yule was putting on at the same time. But yet again, Yule, sort of like Danny, was one of these people from the teen eras of Survivor

that we thought the show had kind of left behind outside of picking and choosing the Cerise and Ozzy's and Parvati's of it all. It was awesome to see Yule play and I'm still a little sad Rob that he ends up getting voted out right before pre-merge just pretty much by necessity.

Yeah, I think it would have been a little bit more interesting to have seen him get to the post merge. But ultimately, yeah, it does not work out. I think you will stun. I think that you is pretty much not going to come back for a survivor 50. But again, this was another person where it was nice to see them come back. And like a little bit of sort of like Tom Westman coming back in

Heroes vs. Villains a little bit of like it's not a long run but it's a little bit of like a little bit of a reminder of like you know I still got something yeah I think that Yule has also said that he would only come back if it was a charity season because he almost in a different way than what Rob

expresses he says that if he goes back onto a returning season now that everyone knows what he's playing for, that they would never let him get to the end. Almost like what we were talking about with Ethan as well. Dani, we ended up leaving off the shortlist just because it feels like from the

edit she was given and also the fact that it doesn't seem like necessarily the modern Survivor game, from my perspective was in her bag i don't know if that's necessarily a bag she wants to put her hand back into yeah i do think that parvati i think would be up for it i i just don't know necessarily uh what a parvati 5.0 would look like in terms of so moving on to poverty I'm sorry no speaking about Danny but we can talk about poverty because yeah I

would agree from a gameplay perspective she's on the back foot from pretty much the beginning it's her Robin Ethan against all these new schoolers and then she ends up kind of getting swapped screwed when she swapped into a minority on her blue tribe I will say poverty has

undergone some pretty significant life changes in between survivor appearances. And that's one of the major reasons why I put her on the ballot, besides the fact that if it was a legend season, she has said, especially in these Trader's Ex interviews,

that she probably wouldn't do survivor again. I do think that the idea of a legend season would sort of be the Doctor Strange one exception that would have Parvati coming back and again it's something I would like to see considering how much Parvati has both come to her own and come out in a manner of speaking to

show a happier you know more full side of herself in the past year sure very happy for everything that's going on for Parvati but I'm not sure if life changes necessarily show up as game changes where...

No, that was season 34. Do you feel like that Parvati played the Traitors drastically different than she had played Survivor in the past? I think so a little bit in that, honestly, Parvati maybe approached the Traitors like it was fans versus favorites.

It was like, oh, these are the gamers that know what they're doing. And then these are all these newbie reality stars that don't. And so I do think that certainly there were a couple of times when Parvati got caught a little flat footed and as a result, ended up, you know, unfortunately falling because of that and listen it's a little bit apples and oranges compared to the traders but depending on what the circumstances of the season might be maybe there is something to parvati being able to come onto the island with her new title as the duchess of deception maybe well let's move one step to her right here

and talk about somebody that, you know, I would say probably a lot more intimately than Parvati. So talk to me about the timeline of Tyson here. When did you know that Tyson was going to be going out for a fourth season? Mike, I opened Twitter and it's like Redmond. Redmond's like, what? Tyson's gone?

What the hell are we gonna do on the podcast Yeah how many hours was that before Thanks a lot buddy Really stuck it to us So we scrambled And were able to work on some things But Tyson I just feel like is

Interesting because I feel like That you could bring Tyson back And maybe this is a little bit of favoritism On my part but I feel that you could bring Tyson back and maybe this is a little bit of favoritism on my part but I feel like you could bring Tyson back many many times and Tyson is going to you know give you a lot uh I mean look at what he did I know we've talked about this with like Michaela and Desi but like when Tyson went back for the challenge USA and he had you know some in very interesting gameplay and strategy about how he wanted to set things up there and so I think if you put him in like a different set of circumstances like I think that

he may like he's always going to try to figure out like he did in blood versus water okay what's the setup here that works best for me and I think that if you brought him back for another season with returning players like I think he's going to give you something interesting yeah I mean he's good TV no matter

what that's also one reason why we put him on the ballot is again I could definitely see him making the category of a legend season when he's willing to adapt yeah to try to make it work with other players and he's not going to be sort of like petulant

about like no this is exactly how I'm going to play not to mention if we're like lumping him together with poverty Rob and Sandra they serve like four time plus returning players Tyson is the one that is the most connected to the new era as well, of course, with the podcast that he's hosting now, where he's become much more

intimately familiar with the new era than any one of these other players, and he's also made connections with it. Would you rather, Rob, see Tyson on a fifth Survivor season or put him on another reality show in general? I think I'd rather see Tyson on

another like a like a traitor. I think he would be very, very fun there. But I feel like that in winners at war not to relitigate this too much. I think that he ends up getting caught up a little bit more like, oh Boston Rob's on the other side. Yeah. So we can't let Tyson and Rob get back to get connected.

So, you know, if he doesn't have like a Boston Rob, like that people are worried about him working with, I think that there might be a little bit more of a interest in working with Tyson. All right. Well, let's talk about our next group here. So that represented. Does Tyson, is Tyson dying to play Survivor for a fifth time?

I like, i suspect not yeah i i mean he said that he's like pretty much retired again i think if he was talked into a legend season i think it could happen but otherwise i don't think he's coming back i think he's very fine with where he is right now i think that if they you know throw a bag at him i think he would do it but you know he's not like the challenge is all about throwing bags he's very experienced at it yeah so what's interesting rob is that this season and look some of the consternation that people have about winners of war is the boot list and for what it's worth you know we talk about casting and how recency bias is baked into it and we can certainly talk about it with this cast. But of the 20 cast members,

eight debuted on Survivor prior to the halfway point between one and 40, which is pretty good, I would say. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So do you think that they will be looking at that kind of symmetry in season 50? I would not be surprised. It depends on, again, if they want to celebrate the show, what that means. Does that mean

bringing people on from those early seasons for whatever theme might satisfy them? I could certainly see it. I don't know if it would be half and half unless that's a theme they're going for. If they're going for like old school versus new school and even then are you counting old school as 1 through 40?

Are you counting old school as 1 through 20? Are you counting old school as one through 20? Not entirely sure. But I did think it was interesting that, again, after looking at all these returning cast, we've talked about just how much it's weighted primarily in like the last two, three, four seasons. They were able to get nearly half the cast from the first 20 seasons here.

Yeah, pretty good. I mean, those are like the iconic names of like, if you're gonna like, I think part of the idea with these big anniversary seasons, I think is that you end up like like bringing in like, well, I haven't watched the show in 10 years,

but this person is back like, okay, now I'm gonna watch and maybe you get some people like reinvigorated that they're like oh I remember why I like Survivor yeah and just in time for a couple seasons to show up on Netflix and to have any excuse in the world to just binge watch the show that you missed

out on a couple years of sure all right well let's move into the 20s and these are all of our players it's the biggest group of this entire cast Rob all the players that debuted during the 20s, which were in and of itself an odd time in Survivor. We had, of course, the dark ages of like the first four seasons.

Some would even throw Kara Moen in there. But then you have this sort of like renaissance period in the latter part of the 20s with Blood vs. Water, Kaguya and San Juan del Sur. And so through that, we have Sophie, Kim, Denise. So Kim. So Kim. Unfortunately not, though she did show up again on that Game Changers

consideration list, surprisingly so. So Kim. And then we have these two inextricable pairs in Tony and Sarah and Natalie and Jeremy. Thank you. So let's start with our top three here, because, yeah, I do think someone like Sophie,

for instance, is very interesting. Wow. Mike, did you realize that once upon a time, three women, one survivor in a row? My God, the world was so different back in the early 2010s for many different reasons. But these three, I mean, Sophie in particular, I was really happy to see back. This was yet another surprising choice for me because, again, we talked about this during the South Pacific podcast that the reception behind South Pacific at the time was,

Oh, my God, I can't believe Coach lost or Oh, my God, I can't believe Ozzy got voted out. It was less so about Sophie as the winner. believe Ozzy got voted out and was less though about Sophie as the winner. And so again, maybe it was due to the fact that production was looking a bit more into, you know, the, the less considered winners to fill out their female cast, but considering what Sophie was able to bring to winners award to the point

that we put her on the ballot for a third time because she impressed so much this season. Well, I think that Sophie is somebody who I feel like that for for survivor 50 i would give her a lot of consideration she could be one of these people that i think would add a lot to a survivor 50 where i feel like that she played survivor and one in south pacific at 21 years old but then i feel like that we got a um more a different uh a more different outspoken version of Sophie who was

more of a fierce challenge competitor and I think just was like more like coming from the person who did beat Ozzy the last community challenge in South Pacific yes I think more of like openly strategic about how she played and I think a lot of people felt like that.

You know, if Tony didn't get Sophie out, this was going to be Sophie's game to lose. And I feel like that Sophie would be fascinating to me to play again. I was very happy for Sophie to get the chance to come back. You know, so many of these people, especially from the 20s. Now, Rob has a podcast has started i got the chance to interact with so many of these people in a different way than i got to interact with like you know when we're talking about rob and amber and ethan like i played survivor on seasons with them like these were the people like i came to know from watching them and talking about their games on the podcast yeah and i And I think Sophie is someone who really had her stock level rise through

appearing on the podcast. I keep saying this, but she was the one who immediately clocked that the three amigos move while big and flashy was maybe a bit overrated. She was memory, Mike. Yeah. She was one of the people who initially said like,

Oh, Tony's someone to watch out for back during a time in Kaga. I remember like, Oh, this guy's so silly. He's doing too much. He can never win. And so, yeah, I would really like to see Sophie back for time number three. And I think as well, we talk all the time on this season about people kind of coming on with like secondary goals since they've already won before. Obviously, two million dollars would be nice. But are there other things you're looking to do in reappearing

on the show? And I think for Sophie and we'll talk about it with michelle as well i think it was a bit of like i want to prove to fans that i deserved my win the first time around and much like we talked about with sandra and game changers rob i feel like it was a similar impression with sophie of okay she did not replicate her success from a placement perspective but she was more actively strategic than i think the hand that was dealt to her in South Pacific that I think she impressed a lot of people with her second time out. Yeah, it was super impressive.

Would love to see some more. So Kim, and again, not the boot of Survivor Worlds Apart. I mean, Kim was a shoe in for this if she wanted to do this. I mean, this was one of the most dominant winners of all time, if was one of the most dominant winners of all time, if not one of the most dominant women

of all time. Still holds and ties a record for most immunity challenges won by a woman. Absolutely ran her season from top to bottom. She was a natural to come in here. That being said, between your aforementioned comment that Jeff made

to her at that final challenge as well as a couple of interviews she's done with you afterwards she is retired from the game she's retired from survivor um and i'm so happy uh for kim to have success after survivor with uh what she's done on hgtv i think that she is somebody who I think has been properly celebrated by the survivor community. I was glad she got a chance to come back and play. I think you kind of needed her for this season. I think that this is probably the only scenario where it made sense for her to

return. And I think she was probably seen as somebody who played like a near perfect survivor game in one world. And it didn't go perfectly for her in winners at war and i think that's that's okay we love kim i mean that wasn't that like her final words to jeff like it's okay not being perfect well that was the answer to the question that jeff had asked her and i thought it was a good one and you know uh i will always be a big uh kim spradlin fan but I can say that lovingly, like, I

don't think that we even if she was like, I'm open to it. I feel like what is there left to do for Kim? Yeah, I mean, listen, if people want to watch Kim Spradlin on your TV, just get HGTV as part of your cable package and you should be good. Sure. Denise, I was really excited to see Denise. Of course, Philippines was one of my favorite seasons, especially in the midst of the seasons that surround it and Denise again had this inexplicable underdog run where she goes to every single tribal council in her season and ends up taking home

the win she was also the oldest woman to ever win survivor and so it was really exciting to see her back on here she does end up making the finale. But I mean, one of the reasons why she does get left off, in my opinion, Rob, is that it does feel like now Ben will have the much bigger story of him sort of bowing out and being happy with the way that things went. It did feel like Denise had shades of that the way she went out as well. Endure. Let go. Mike Bloom ends up with a tattoo. OK, so there was a lasting impact yeah very much so quite literally on my skin

but would you want to see Denise back no I think we're good here I think we're good and you know I hold a special place in my heart for Denise my only winner pick ever in the history of Rob is a podcast and Denise was like you know a did

a really great job in Survivor Philippines. She has like the one great moment with the double idol play in taking out the queen. She's the queen killer here. And I think Denise would tell you herself. I think she is very good. Yes, I think so as well let's talk about one of our two pairs here not only uh one of the most iconic pairs in the late 20s but in survivor history considering how many times they've not only played together but become a part of each other's stories

culminating and then tearfully facing off against each other in the fire making challenge this season Tony and Sarah and it's really interesting Rob because Tony at least from my perspective and people have mocked me for it especially in hindsight coming into winners at war I think Game Changers was on

a lot of the fans minds of like look at Tony crashing and burning in Game Changers I didn't think he could do it I mean there was a there was a draft on a lot of the fans minds of like, look at Tony crashing and burning in game changers. I didn't think he could do it. I mean, um, there was a, there was a draft that happened and who was on it.

It was, I know it was Akiva and Allie and Liana and myself. It was, yeah, that was the four. Uh, and, uh,

Tony went undrafted. Yes. Uh, Akiva, I think was on tape saying like, I would rather pick any of the other winners who have not been put on the season over Tony. Yeah. And unimaginable

Akiva with like a very bad take that's on the record. Can you believe it? It absolutely flummoxed me in the moment, but much like we were flummoxed by Tony's gameplay here, because I do think, again, we talked about this during Game Changers,

it was kind of a necessary part of his two-season winning arc where he just flames out so spectacularly in Game Changers, and he realizes, like, okay, if I'm a band, I can't just play the same hits every single time. You know, I got to mix in some new music. And so Tony comes in, and he's a little more understated. He's purposely walking at a lower posture than everybody else. He's building ladders,

just making everybody laugh so that once he ends up deciding to strike, he has all the tools quite literally in his toolbox, even though he's not a construction worker to make it happen. He's like Jon Snow. He needed to die so that he could come back. Yeah.

And this was Sarah, his Daenerys there. Daenerys. Yeah. Sarah, look, that is a conversation for different day. Which game of Thrones character is Sarah Lucina?

All right. We'll save that for summer of survivor. So yes, I mean, Sarah, we know scripted TV, Robin's website.com slash scripted. Make sure you subscribe.

Sarah is, was really interesting as well because similarly I didn't think she would do well at all because look at what just happened

in Game Changers which yes was three years ago at that point but was still a very memorable game Sarah was somebody who had

this entire strategy of like I'm going to connect with you socially we're going to get on the same page then I'm going to rip out that page and put it in my own book. That's going to be a bestselling

winner. And so it got to a point where the jury ends up begrudgingly giving Sarah the win because her strategy was pretty masterful, but they didn't feel the best about it. And so I thought, okay, Sarah's game is clocked at this point. Even if she starts bonding with people, they're going to know it's only so that she can use that to betray them later on. But no, she puts forward a pretty damn good game. And if Tony ends up going out and fire making, there's at least a pretty damn good shot

that she ends up being our two-time winner. She did a really good job here. I thought that maybe Winners at War was a better showcase of her social game than Game Changers ultimately was. I feel like that we saw a a better showcase of her social game than game changers ultimately was. I feel like that we saw like a little bit more of her and confessional. Yeah. And we saw like the fashion show and the hair parlor and everything.

But I think you walked away from game change. Like why, why do people keep trusting Sarah? Like the trusting Sarah with everything. Stop telling Sarah things. But I think that in survivor winners at war, I think you understood a little bit more about why, like what,

how she was able to do that. That being said, I feel like Tony and Sarah, like, I don't know. I kind of feel like that the story is over. It was a beautiful ending to their relationship on screen in the fire making challenge.

Very emotional in terms of how it all played out. But. I don't know. I feel I feel like I'm good here. I don't disagree. We did put Tony on the ballot because I do think, again, legends would be that one scenario that he would play in and he did say in the literal hours following his win on winners of war that he would come back for something like survivor 50 so i think that he could though it doesn't it feels like by law almost that he has to be on the season

with sarah and we've talked about before how i think sarah would probably be one to say no to survivor for a fourth time out she's's had a couple of other bites of the apple when it came to reality TV and I think she's fine at the moment. Mm-hmm. Yeah. For bites of the turkey leg, if you will. I think we're good here. Well, let's talk about maybe another pair that

has shown up on our screens in a different way in the form of Natalie and Jeremy. So these two thick as thieves, obviously, in San Juan del Sur. He goes down. She goes on to win. Jeremy comes back and takes it home for San Juan del Sur in second chance. Then they're back together on winners at war for like a minute

before Natalie is voted out because they're so close. She will go on and place in second here what were your thoughts about seeing both natalie and jeremy back together on a season for the first time yes super excited to see them both i kind of had forgotten about the relationship because unlike tony and sarah like they they both um or jeremy that his more iconic season comes without natalie um and comes in second chance so you sort sort of like easily could have forgotten about the relationship that they formed in San Juan del Sur. But they are,

you know, great friends and, you know, remain close to this day. So to have them on the same starting tribe, maybe like a little bit of a misfire from the producers in terms of like putting them as like okay you're inviting one of them to get targeted by starting them off on the same tribe yeah that's the issue for me was it felt like the easy fix would have

been either swap sarah and natalie or tony and jeremy because both of these pairs will start on the same starting tribe and so especially, especially when, you know, you split up the marriage or any other, like, pairs you might try to find, you know, separating Rob and Tyson as well, you would think that these two pairs, and especially Tony and Sarah, who, again,

had such a complicated yet obviously tied together bond through two previous seasons, separating them to start would have probably been the most optimal thing to do yeah I think that maybe the producers don't realize like how close maybe you don't look at Tony and Sarah as oh that's their

because Tony and Sarah and Survivor Kage on like a negative and then we never see them together in Survivor Game Changer so maybe there's some thought of like okay well this is actually uh something that's bad for tony to start him on that sarah's gonna be gunning for him so maybe uh they ended up doing it that way but for whatever reason it ends up going sour for natalie

who then goes on her own journey and ends up coming back and so natalie that do we know does natalie want to play survivor again first she she absolutely interesting at least in the moment after winners of war she was very much like listen you knock on the door and i already have a bad pack i think for her it was very much like she said she had said if she had won the season which she came close to doing then she'd be done because then it's very much like we thought sandra would be which is like where do you go from here but for her it's now kind of giving her an itch back of well i did lose i want to go back and prove that i can win she is fiercely competitive because of that so we did put her on the short

list for that reason uh also again there's a little bit of that unfinished business there though if we go back to the Tyson question, I think it's more likely and I would probably like to see Natalie on another reality show over Survivor for the third time. Yeah, look, if Natalie wants to play Survivor again,

then I'm never going to turn it down. But I feel like I could also like walk away and that Natalie's story, I feel like to make it back from going to the edge to making it to a final tribal council. Like to me, I feel like that that was a, you know, a complete journey for me. But if she wants to do it, like we'd be blessed to have Natalie come back. Now, on the other end, we do see someone like Jeremy who is doing other reality shows and that have natalie come back now on the other end we do see someone like jeremy who is doing other reality shows and that he's going to be appearing on the traitors

and he has expressed that he would not like to come back oh interesting yeah he has he's at least said in interviews and he would not like to but would he i mean that's the question is that like if push comes to shove and especially if it's a legend season, I could see him getting the nudge. He basically has said that like it takes a lot of time away from his family. And it's not necessarily something that he said that he had a lot of hunger and a lot of energy for Survivor from his first time to his second time. But even his second time to his third time, it felt like that passion was was waning. And obviously, Jeremy had his toughest season yet where he's just consistently the target pretty much from the merge until he's voted out. So maybe if we ask him under the right circumstances, he would want to come back. But especially given the fact that now he is appearing on other shows that allow him less time away from Val and the kids, I could see him softly retiring from the show. less time away from Val and the kids, I could see him softly retiring from the show. See, I was going to say that.

I think I have a little bit more interest in Jeremy playing again for the fourth time. First, I just think that there would be like a reverence for Jeremy to come back and play. We hear him constantly brought up on the show as somebody that people want to play like. And it didn't go great for him on winners at war, but I really feel like that he would be, you know,

rather celebrated by, uh, like, especially like if he was there with a lot of these people that played in the forties, like, I really think that they would look up to Jeremy and want to play with him as like,

as Q talked about, like that, his favorite player. Yeah. I love Jeremy because he's like a loyal family guy who is not looked at as a very, uh, schemey player.

And so like, I think it would be interesting to see, uh, Jeremy come back, but I did not know. I knew how he did not enjoy his time on winners at war. And so I thought that he might be a little bit more interested as like a palate cleanser of like,

is this, is this the one I want to go out on? Like the one where people just straight up, you know, you know, swore to me up and down and then betrayed me. Yeah. I mean,

it'll be interesting to see if the traders, which will be the first reality show he's done since winners at war. Will that like reignite a passion in him? You know know will that reignite a competitive drive for him to say you know what I can't go back there and give it one more try or is he going to say oh no this is the much better gig I bet he's beloved by the Traders viewers oh I'm sure he is going to be like like the new audience that doesn't know Survivor that just meets Jeremy for the first time like I think that he's going to be very well received. Oh, I'm going to put out a bold prediction right here right now.

I guess like several months ahead of time. I think Jeremy is going to be the CT of the Traitor Season 3. I could see that. I'm like the guy that's very good in challenges, like very well regarded amongst the people within the castle. And then, again, people who are coming in for the housewives or the other Zac Efron's brother and are like oh who's this guy Jeremy he seems like a solid dude and so we kind of have a

Jeremy renaissance in terms of popularity and then we'll get like the confessionals about like all this like all this nonsense happening in the these guys are so dumb there we go he's like why y'all so happy we voted out of faithful. Yeah.

All right. So our final group here, last but not least. So Sarah technically is part of this group. And actually, Jeremy is as well, because from Cambodia onwards, we are going to get what? Seven out of the last eight or nine seasons in the 30s represented through Winners of War, where we have Michelle, Adam, Ben, Wendell, and Nick. I would not say that any of these really surprised me.

Maybe Adam, just because you look at him and Nick and like, okay, one of these should be filled by the young, excitable superfan. And Nick had the more recent win. And I would say probably was the more like, at least from an edit perspective, the more active game player. But I was especially given how much he brought to the season from a character perspective and especially him playing the Florida Lee. Adam brought so much to Winners at War. Yes. So we're going to start with Adam. Oh, you want to start with Michelle? Let's check her off.

Let's kick over that stack. Let's kick it. Okay, Mike. So yeah, Michelle comes back. I'm so happy for Michelle that she got the opportunity to come back and be celebrated. And while I know Korong is her winning season, I feel like

that Survivor winners at war I think is like Michelle's like one of the few people that come away from this season. I think enhancing their legacy. Well, yeah, I mean her secondary goal as she talks about in that really cool scene with Boston Rob when they're swinging the ring is like them talking about the meta of fan

reception behind wins and Boston Rob's like don't let the haters get you down. Hey. Exactly. And so that's all I need to say is, hey, and she knows exactly what that means. You know what that means. And so Michelle, yeah, does go on. And I think it's also a matter of like

some people thought that it was lightning striking when Michelle ends up winning due to these circumstances that go wrong. But you can't really have lightning strike twice. And the fact that Michelle made it to her second final, she has yet to be voted out in her survivor career. I think had a lot of people admiring her game more. She's got a great overall survivor package.

She's tough. She's feisty, but she's not overly physical where you look at her like, Oh, we got to get Michelle out because she's going to to win a challenge but she could rattle off an immunity here or there but then at the same time also look uh kind of hapless in a challenge so she doesn't really and it's not i don't think it's intentional but she doesn't really build up that kind of like a threat level and i think that she is a smart player but she's not looked at as overly strategic i don't think that anybody says oh we got to get michelle out she's a big schemer she's always up

to something but she's also like uh likely to be involved with a plan and you know can come up with a few on her own and then she's just got like a really great uh riz and social game where people like yeah they like being around her and so michelle has just like a lot of things going for her that i think that like the sum of the parts is like is greater than if you just looked at them in terms of like okay you know if you were going to like, uh, give her, her,

uh, survivor D and D not B and B like levels. And so Michelle, I was happy for her. She's done. I made a career out of being on the challenge. That's the thing is I think that out of anybody here, she is really the one that is probably most personifying that like mid

aughts boston rob where she has just been appearing on so much i mean mainly on one show perhaps unlike rob where she has appeared on i think now four or five seasons of the challenge including the upcoming season uh and it almost feels like i talked about this with kirsten that i feel like the challenge is almost the show that feels like mich Michelle is made for between like the competitive aspects, the strategy that is now involved, or she really runs the game in this most recent season that just aired. And then also like a lot of mess.

Michelle is very, very messy on the challenge, entertainingly. So that being said, we also did put her on the ballot because a, I think there is something interesting to Michelle who who honestly hasn't had in her Survivor seasons a lot of time where she's like specifically in power, just had a season where she was pretty much in control

from beginning to end. And there is something to what could she bring to Survivor now because of that. And B, because she has said that despite her becoming kind of a challenge mainstay, she is someone that would easily go back and play another season of Survivor if given the chance yeah so would love to

see it I personally I kind of feel like her story there's not much more for me to see from Michelle but if she wants to come back I mean like we'd be lucky to live in that scenario so let's talk about Adam here because yes I mean Adam is somebody who I wouldn't say

this would necessarily be his reason for coming back. But I think there was a lot of talk at the time about how Adam only won because he revealed the story about his mom, which was definitely not the case. And I imagine Adam had a bit to prove. Adam also this is ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. Adam also had this with that role to fill as the big super fan that gets to gawk at the fact that he is playing

alongside these legendary players. He gets to start some smoke with Ben, who is used to starting smoke, considering he won the fire making challenge back in the original season. And he goes out in a pretty glorious fashion. Unfortunately, Ali and I talked about this on the Millennium Versus Gen X podcast. I do believe

that Adam's recruitment service is casting advice. I was actually surprised. Mike, can I push back on that? I was surprised that you took such a such a bull. You'll get the harsu. I was surprised you took such a strong stand on that he is

persona non grata with survivor because of the whole get like, I think that the survivor can hold these two things in their hands of like, Hey, we didn't like that you did that. But like, if it was the right theme for our season, I think we could look past that. Like,

I think that they got on the phone with Adam. Like, I feel like that if there was a reason why they wanted him, I don't think that that would be disqualifying of if they had on the phone with Adam. Like, I feel like that if there was a reason why they wanted him, I don't think that that would be disqualifying of if they had like the perfect theme to bring Adam back. Like, I think that they could like, uh,

get around the, uh, the whole casting. Yeah. I personally think that the issue is more like, I just feel like the story is, uh, done with Adam as far as his survivor journey.

And it would be fun to see Adam on anything. But I just don't know if they're looking for him more so than he's disqualified. I would agree with that as well, that you were talking about if there was the right theme to call Adam back. And part of me is thinking, what would that theme be? You know, with with no offense to him, I wouldn't necessarily qualify him as a quote-unquote legend if they want to do what they did with... Gen Z versus Millennials. Exactly.

Just bring back the entire Vanua tribe and hit them up against a bunch of Gen Z-ers. But I do think that Adam is somebody who speaks so eloquently and admiringly. Gen Z versus Millennials, Mike, especially returning players, would be like a great season. I mean, maybe that'll be the theme for Survivor 50. It's like it's a battle of the generations, quite literally.

They played Survivor in their 20s. Now they're in their 30s. But what do they have? What it takes against the new crop of Survivor players? Exactly. I do think that Adam, I always loved like the reverence he has for the game

especially having been like a two-time player and seeing it from that perspective for sure well I mean I'd love like I'd love for him to show up on like Australian Survivor I know that we're not necessarily doing US versus AU but I feel like he could be a pretty slam dunk casting choice there yeah I hope

I'm not speaking too much out of school here, but that I, I did have the chance to in early, maybe, maybe it was the early 2019. And I, and I had the chance to talk with Adam Klein about that. They were having the survivor 40 and they started to think about having the

winners back. And he was going to, he was going to talk to them. And he said, and he said to me, and I'll never forget this. He said to me, if I don't get invited for all winners survivor,

I will cry myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life. And I was so happy that he made it. Yes. For many reasons, cry myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life. Oh my God. And I was so happy that he made it. Yes. For many reasons, for the sake of his own sanity. And, uh,

I mean, Kleenex is feeling bad because that would have just like, people could retire on that sort of money that Adam was guaranteeing, but I'm glad for the sake of his own mental wellbeing that he ends up being on this season. Yes. Okay. So very happy for adam i

don't think we're gonna see him on survivor 50 just because i'm not sure necessarily what what the theme is where we bring back adam let's talk about ben here his rival on survivor 40 because ben i mean it's interesting because like i think if you ask a certain subset of the fan base they would say it was a controversial casting choice given how everything went down on Heroes, Healers, Hustlers that led to his win however I think the way that his win was regarded by the larger community and obviously him highlighting

PTSD and the Marines it did make sense and also again they're trying to pull some recent winners that to your point they'd be like oh I remember this guy and Ben is so distinctly different I, in an archetype from everyone around him. I think Survivor really liked Ben, especially Ben

1.0. He was on Jeff's Mount Rushmore of players back in like 2020. Yeah, I think they were really happy with him. I think they really liked that story of Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers. I was again in the building on the HHH finale. I remember that they uh they were just

i i think that they felt like ben was going to be like a big star i think that he probably from the viewers perspective and again we're in a little bit of a bubble but to the general viewers like i think that the idea of him as being a former marine uh who's overcoming ptsd i think that the idea of him as being a former Marine, uh, who's overcoming PTSD, I think that they felt like, okay, this is like such a home run story. Mark Burnett was there in the building. He very excited about that, that they brought, they brought his friends that were fraught part. Like this was like almost like something that they never do for anybody else. Especially when the finale of the reunion was 20 minutes long they reunited him with other marines like i think they felt like okay this is a big this is a big story that we're uh doing here with ben so i think that they wanted to

i think they thought they were going to keep riding that ben wave and ben i know he is not beloved, but I will say that in person, he's very gregarious. I think that he's very easy to get along with. I think in many situations, although that from what people have said about playing with him or playing with him on the challenge that there is. I mean, I think there is like a dark side of ben which does uh come out and he is dealing with a lot of demons that have been well chronicled so i think that this is not the one that i would you know second guess up and down yeah i i think also the fact that ben finds so many idols in this season which is like nicely ringing on production's radar as well of hey we're gonna throw a bunch of stuff into this game fire tokens and advantages we want to cast

people that know how to play ball with that and ben certainly does shows that initiative all that being said obviously the way that ben goes out he was very expressive about his secondary goal which is like i had to be an army of one for for lack of a better term, in Heroes, Healers, Hustlers. I want to try to make friends this season. And so that sort of factors into him deciding to leave the game, basically, at Final Five, where it's discovered like, hey, you can leave

the game now, or you can get dragged to the Final Three and get torn apart by the jury. And Ben said, I'm good. And I feel like that's maybe what he would be saying to survive i was surprised he even did the challenge to be honest yeah i agree uh i don't know if maybe it was a matter of like i don't know maybe he was asking around and sarah said she would and he's like okay i've got a friend there at least he does it another time over with sarah so maybe ben is

the new tony when it comes to sarah shows yeah or maybe sarah called him like come on let's go and again it's that riz it's that inexplicable Lucina charm. But yeah, I think that, I don't know. I haven't gauged if Ben would want to come back. It just feels like the way that he left. I think it's a non-starter. I don't think that they're looking for Ben and I don't think he's necessarily, you know,

clamoring for it. Well, let's go from, I guess, someone that would have been a GOAT in the final three of this season to someone who would go on to play the GO goat. So Wendell, this makes sense. I mean, listen to also be a no brainer. Wendell, of course, incredibly popular from Ghost Island and also part of, you know, one of the most climactic finishes in Survivor history with the tied vote, but also seen as one of the biggest power players of the season.

You needed Wendell. I mean, that would have been very hard to do this season without him coming off of Ghost Island at the time that they were casting this. One of the most popular recent winners that they had. And so I think that he was just, you know, a fan favorite also. So easy pick to bring back Wendell for uh the winner for the winners at war wendell i think you could imagine why he would want to come back for a third season he's told me in as recent as exit interviews for the goat that like he would always come back to

survivor which i will admit raised my eyebrows a bit just because it's not that I don't think his time didn't go well in Winners of War, but the edit definitely made it seem I could see a world where Wendell's like, I'm done here. But I think that I could also imagine where Wendell imagines that the world that edited him a certain way in

season 40 is not necessarily the same editing team that would do season 50. Not to mention he is someone that through Bryce and Bryce and when presents has done all these events where they are not only interacting with the new era. They do weekly podcasts here on RHAP, but also, again, networking a lot with all of these new era contestants that he were to play on 50 would be assumingly facing off against. Yeah. So I think that Wendell would like to come back. I'm not necessarily sure

what the theming would be to bring back a winner that necessarily for season 50, but look, maybe it's Legends down the road, but good to know that Wendell wants to come back. Alright all right well let's finish

things off here with Nick so Nick again him and Adam kind of feel at least the same bucket on the surface of like young super fan with a heartwarming underdog story I do think that Nick gets brought on for a number of reasons a he

is recent B he comes from a very popular season in the form of David versus Goliath. Yes. But I just feel like that the season was popular. But I feel like that Nick as the avatar of the Davids in David versus Goliath made so much sense. I really feel like that Survivor didn't know

what to do with nick outside of that framework of oh this is the face of the davids that they made him the guy that was skulking in the background in winners of war that's your answer they didn't know what to do with him and i really i just wonder mike do we have a list of the snubs of the winners at peace yes so uh i believe you know the list of survivor winners of course we have uh i'll go in order here we have of course richard hatch yeah you know that's a whole different conversation of what's he in the mix did they want him right tina i believe the story was that she was given consideration briefly that specifically can we talk about the the men oh yeah sure so we have

chris doherty and Tom Westman. And Tom had, I don't think both of them were even considered at that point. We have Earl, who was in heavy consideration and ends up dropping out due to the premature birth of his child. Let me just ask you, Mike, who do you think is the 10th guy in on this list? Is it Adam? Is it Adam, Ben, or Nick? I think it's adam or nick just because again i think both of them are so similar that it's like okay one of you is going to be on and then

one of you is going to be the alternate yeah i do wonder if it ends up being sort of like a situation where we've talked about like in some of these other seasons where this person was the alternate for this person cochran not coming back uh paints them into a box a little bit. Right. Cochran, of course, you know, has cemented even to this day that he was done after Caramo and he sees no other reason to come back. I know he was contacted for winners at war. So, yeah, I would imagine that once they lost him at some point, they're like, OK, well, we need that perspective brought in through another player right so suffice it to say also nick is you know very much down the road in his political career that i do not think you want wanna play survivor again not to mention that listen he has a pretty respectable showing he ends up finishing in like seventh or eighth place but to your point i don't think he was a huge fan of the way he

was personified that season probably not but um oh who would you pick okay so if you take cochran off the board earl earl they wanted earl they couldn't do it like uh who do you who do you plug in instead of nick oh i mean the big answer is todd herzog but obviously that i mean and todd express right i think he said on his talking with t-bird that like he was given the availability call and then just he almost it was almost the same case with you where they're like okay would you want to do this and he's like okay yeah tell me more and then he was just kind was almost the same case with you where they're like okay would you want to do this he's like okay yeah tell me more and then he was just kind of left on red but I think Todd is someone

you could easily slot in here I mean he's a shoo-in for the short list from us from China because he has the story on top of being a still a devoted fan of the show I think he was an easy person to slide in here yeah also I think that Chris Underwood would have been very interesting especially when you have the edge well so Chris Underwood yeah the story i think that chris underwood would have been very interesting

especially when you have the edge well so chris underwood yeah the story was was that he actually was given a call but i believe it was like the the 12 hours before his honeymoon and he's like i've got too much happening at this moment i don't think i'm in the right headspace to do it and look he does eventually return with aplomb onto another show uh but, it would have been interesting to put him on considering that all these people would have also just seen the finale to Edge of Extinction as well. And so on paper, you think, okay, is there a little bit of that Russell Hance effect

of, oh, he's sort of a bigger unknown so we won't vote for him. Chris Underwood would have gotten targeted very early because he has no pregame relationships and they know that he can make his way back from the edge. Yeah. So, interesting.

Were there any winners, Rob, that you were unhappy with in the moment to not see on Winners at War for one reason or another? I mean, I think that we've talked about it. I'm trying to think if there's anybody else that... I would say that, you know, again, as much as I understand the reasons why Ben was on, I kind of wish Mike Holloway

was on Mike would have I think love to have gotten another shot I feel like that you could have especially considering the way it turned out with Ben like I think that you does feel like that okay Ben came along and was the new Mike Holloway yeah I think so but otherwise again that's why

I say you know that it was a pretty top tier cast because yes we all want you know to see what Natalie White would do on a second time out what Fabio would bring but I think from a production perspective there was just a slim to none chance they were going to bring those people but as always Mike you know

the people from the recent seasons who maybe don't ultimately stand the test of time like Nick and like Ben like you say like okay well they they get in there ultimately stand the test of time, like Nick and like Ben, like you say, like, okay, well, they,

they get in there just for the sake of that. Okay. Well, when they're casting the show, they're fresh on the mind. And so I do think that the, you know, these next couple of seasons of survivor,

uh, could weigh very, very heavily into survivor 50. Well, on that note, Rob, I know that you had some thunder booming in the background. You can hear that.

Oh my God. This was a, uh, I know that you had some thunder booming in the background. You could hear that. Oh, my God. This was a torrential day. I was worried my Internet was going to crap out. Well, it only makes sense that we turn to the season that has a man drowning on it. And its logo, the new era is on us. I cannot believe after all these podcasts we have gotten here, but we are officially arriving at Survivor 41, where the show comes back with a completely new look, lots of new twists, and a brand new cast to talk about and look ahead.

This is going to be really interesting, Rob, because for a while, even before this entire experiment started, there was so much talk as to how many of the new era people will be brought back for Survivor 50. And now we have the chance to actually look at it. And it's going to be especially interesting with 41, because again, to your point,

but a lot about the new hotness and a lot of talk about how, especially 45 and 46 are some of the best that the new era has to offer. Could that mean that survivor 41, which is in the new era is a season that could be left behind in terms of casting? It could be. I don't think it will be. Like, I suspect that you'll have

at least a representative from Survivor 41. But this is going to be a fascinating new era for the Survivor wishlist. Yes, it is. So we're still going to walk in with our newly refurbished five picks.

But still, it's going to be really interesting because we're going to have to talk even more, I think, about the meta and the archetypes that these people might be competing with and who actually stands a solid shot of coming back from your perspective rob any people you would want to put on your short list from 41 off the top of your head i'm going to stump for i think second chances is the way to go for especially for Survivor 41 and I would say that so I'll say

Shan is going to be super fascinating Danny talk about somebody else who was really bolstered by appearances on the challenge Dr. Evie Jagoda would be great Ricard was somebody I thought there was untapped potential

there and I'm sure there's more. So I'm looking forward to Survivor 41's discussion. Yeah, I'm really excited to tap into it because, again, I do feel like this cast has largely been kind of broad-brushed with like, oh, Survivor 41 was all about the trip. Zander, too. Yeah, I like when you said Zander.

I like what you said about me. Yeah, so I think that this will be a really interesting cast to dig into and sort of put ourselves also in the mind frame of 41 when we were looking at some of these cast and being like these are instant returnees let's see if we can cash that check i'll be talking about season 41 with maggie morgan but rob we are barreling down the end of this you and i are going to get back together in only a short amount of time to wrap up this whole shebang can't wait. Can you

believe it, Mike? What a summer. I cannot believe it because it also signifies the end of summer as well. But who knows? Maybe that means that 40 several is on the horizon. So happy to keep this survivor bloodstream pumping. We're not taking a hiatus, unlike what Survivor was forced to do. We're going to be

back tomorrow with Maggie Morgan talking Survivor 41. Rob, thank you as per usual. The insight you bring, especially to these returnee seasons, is so, so welcome. Again, I think it's so much fun to put ourselves in the headspace of what the fan base was thinking at the time.

Why did this person come back? Did it work in retrospect? And, you know, I'm sad to do away with it, but it comes with the benefit of being able to do that entirely for Survivor 50. Yeah, it's been so fun, Mike. You've done such a great job. It's been so nice

to have all these podcasts to listen to every day. So I want to thank you for your tireless work here. Oh, please. The thanks all mine. I'm not crying myself to sleep every night.

I'm giggling with joy that I get to do this every single day. Rob, anything you'd like to plug right now of course you are wrist deep in Big Brother at this moment okay of course wrist deep oh my god I guess that's I guess that's like

over my waist so that's a lot check out all the Big Brother coverage and of course we mentioned the scripted TV coverage as well everything that's going on over on scripted TV, including listening to Mike Bloom talk with Sasha Joseph over on TV for real. Yep, that's right. Every week we're coming back with a new reality TV contestant talking about scripted TV have had quite a number of survivor contestants on there and definitely more to come as well.

So be sure to check that out as well as the Survivor 50 wishlist. As tomorrow, we officially begin the new era of our wishlist with Maggie Morgan covering Survivor 41. Thank you all so much for listening. Until tomorrow, take care. Bye-bye.