RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor 50 Wish List | Season 44 with Liana Boraas

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Today, Mike and Liana Boraas (@LianaRHAP) discuss Season 44.

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This episode is brought to you by Companion. Iris and Josh seem like the perfect match, but when a weekend getaway turns into a nightmare, Iris realizes that things aren't as perfect as they appear. From the creators of Barbarian and the studio that brought you The Notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge. Companion, only in theaters January 31st. hi everybody and welcome back to the survivor 50 wishlist podcast an off-season series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming returning season of Survivor 50.

Today, we are talking Survivor 44. My name is Mike Blumen. Could you believe it? This season only aired basically a year and change ago, but does feel like sort of the last in its initial phase of the new era with the first four seasons, with 60-minute episodes, mostly a lot of idols thrown in but still producing a lot of top tier characters including maybe one of the most powerful trios to play the game one of the most unique winners and we're going to talk about it all today who

has uh the light shining in our eyes in terms of a casting prospect and who will disappear like a mid-challenge fart in the wind. Only time will tell. I'm so excited to be joined by this person. I have missed her presence so much when it comes to talking Survivor. It's not a Brad summer, it's a B&B summer right now

because we're bringing in Liana Boris. Yes, thank you, Mike, for having me. It was weird to have you introduce the Survivor wishlist. I'm like, this is the B&B. What are you doing? It's Mike and I and i together no it has been far too long since we've chatted about survivor and it is time to rectify that right now yeah so listen it wasn't too long ago again that we were talking about survivor 44 and in the moment it felt like there was some

positive reception behind the season especially once we got to that post merge period where admittedly the pre-merge was a little on and off there was a lot of shenanigans going on the maddie boots sort of being a key example the medivacs of bruce and matthew throwing three real idols and three fake idols in at once and throwing three more idols in at once but things kind of mellow out in the latter portion of the game as we see the rise of the Tika 3, which was such an interesting alliance from a strategic and character perspective. And in the moment, I think people really enjoy a lot of what 44 had to offer. What I keep saying in these new era podcasts, though,

is I do feel like a lot of people conventionally think that 45 and 46 is the best that the new era has had to offer so far. Liana, do you think that reflects at all upon the chances of 44 cast members being cast that despite the fact that they have only been on a couple of seasons ago, that there is this sort of new hotness with some of these other characters that have rose to popularity,

that some of these people who might have ordinarily been cast uh if it had been like 41 through 44 as the pool they might be left behind in the process i mean obviously statistically if there's more people in the pool you are less likely to be chosen but i don't think that it dims the light just on some of these players just because it's been an extra couple seasons i think that these are people that are still very much in the game very much in the conversation that's part of the reason why i wanted to talk about 44 is because i feel like i i look i i'm i'm a believer that i think it is going to be probably more new school people by new school i mean after 40 so for that reason that i i wanted to talk about this cast and

this cast in my opinion has a lot of untapped potential because of almost the wonkiness in the pre-season that you talked about because of the domination of the tika three and i think that there are other characters throughout this whole season that have and should have the opportunity to come back and play again all right well let's get into it shall we let's tap into some of that untapped potential but these three uh maybe don't necessarily speak to that potential because they made it all the way to day 26 and two of them are some of the the biggest characters and players of the new era if not survivor in quite some time so of course we have our winner jam jam we have our runner-up heidi

and we have our zero vote finalist but the un you know mistakable fan favorite of the season of course so popular in the moment that cf freaking hopped onto rob's interview and took it over to give her some money live on air let's's talk about this final three. Which one do you want to start with here, Liana? Because I feel like we can go in a lot of different directions. Ooh, well, I'm happy that you brought up Carolyn because I actually kind of want to touch on her first. When I initially looked through the cast list and I thought, OK, who am I going to come in here and advocate for? Who do I think is top of the list? Carolyn was the first person I was like, well, obviously Carolyn. But then I got thinking about it a little bit more.

And I was like, is her story, like what is left for her to tell in terms of her story? And that is one thing that personally I use as a criteria for when I am going to pick someone who I want to see back is what's that next chapter look like? Or do I feel like the end has sort of already been written in their survivor story, at least at this point in time, not saying that we can't have people come back at a later date, but if we're talking about season 50 is Carolyn, someone who I feel like still has sort of this untapped

potential. Like again, as, as, as I discussed, I don't know know i'm kind of leaning towards you know maybe let's let's keep carolyn in her sia box for now and let's have some of these other players have the opportunity to play because as part of the tika three and being able to share her story about addiction and recovery all of that was incredibly impactful for me like i i cried at so many of her confessionals when she's talking about her background and everything that she went through. And that was so emotional. And I will never, ever, ever forget that in terms of the gameplay coming back on survivor. Do I think that she's someone who I really want to have the opportunity to see again from this cast? I don't know. I'm definitely much more up in the air about it than I was initially when I was

extremely convinced that Carolyn was going to be one of my picks. Wow. I feel like I'm definitely much more up in the air about it than I was initially when I was extremely convinced that Carolyn was going to be one of my picks. Wow. I feel like I'm one of the victims of the Tika three and that I feel blindsided. This is wild because I feel like the conventional wisdom for the past few months, once 50 was announced as returnees, is like, OK, the two chalk picks as locks for 50. Should they want to come back are carolyn and q and i see your point that there is a really interesting one season arc to carolyn right this entire idea of due to her mannerisms perhaps in her personality she is discounted immediately and goes to show how that is their folly she's the one that is immediately finding the idol and then putting the red X on it and planting the fake one to trick Sarah. She is the one that just has to sit there

and watch Danny and Brandon bro out and then eventually gets her revenge on them. She's the one who is one of the only people in like the past few seasons of Survivor to have an idol and not tell anybody about it and then play it on Carson at a certain point to stun everybody to the point where Jam Jam was questioning like

is Carolyn now the new favorite to win? Should I take her out? I will say there are some pieces that I could see some redemptive qualities to one of them being it seems like one of the reasons why she was a 0-0 finalist was a little bit of that perception

that like yes she was able to subvert some of those tropes and say, you underestimate me. I'm going to use that against you. But I still think she was fairly counted out in that final tribal council, partially due to, I think, the way she struggled to communicate her game. Even when Carson is kind of coaching her on the sidelines, quite literally like like an airline traffic control. It does seem like Carolyn had a little bit of difficulty vocalizing in the moment and getting a little bit overwhelmed, I think,

by a lot of the pressures that were applied to her. And so I do think there is a bit of like, okay, I got to make sure I get to the end again and not alter this time. Though, I mean, now that we kind of know the routine, right? And I talked about this with Marianne and Omer a bit on the 42 podcast. I would be intrigued to see if she would get underestimated or again, or if this is someone that everyone immediately clocks and decides to get rid of.

Right. I think that's what's interesting is being a zero vote finalist, because obviously you're someone who's demonstrated the ability to get far in the game. You made it to the final three but there's clearly some perception issue or agency issue and so i there's there's two things i think about when it comes to that one is obviously the the the role that the the person themselves take on right if you know that that's the perception of you how do you change or augment your gameplay in order to combat that do you come out of the gate swinging way harder to try to be like no i'm an actual player put some respect on my name i'm here to get the job done or do you utilize that to your advantage and say look people are going to underestimate me let me try to take advantage of that but then you're

going to maybe suffer the same issue which is the second part that perception problem are people going to know that you're underestimated and take you out or continue to underestimate you and then not value your game at the end so i think that carolyn definitely if she were to come back has some interesting choices when it comes to how she's going to move throughout the game and how she's going to work on that known perception of her is that something that is like the absolute top of my wish list to see and that's and i think it's up for debate and that's why she's sort of on that edge of the person that i would want to add because i think you can make an argument either way are you just uh too stymied by the traders news are you like carolyn's gonna spend her time in a

castle in scotland she's not slumming it on the beaches of fiji anymore i'm like yes give this girl a hotel room and a castle bro like she deserves so much better she doesn't need the island no i carol oh my gosh yeah i uh i don't even know how that that would go but um i think carolyn is someone who i personally have like a very strong affinity for and that personal bias also plays a role in wanting to see her back and play again yeah I mean that's the thing is that I I think a lot of what you're saying is valid I think a little bit is obfuscated from the fact that at least from my perspective again if she wants to do it she is a shoo-in I think to return Carolyn is the Thanos of the survivor fandom and that i have not experienced a contestant in quite some time that was able to collect likability on twitter on facebook on reddit on instagram on

myspace like it seemed like for the for such a divided fan base to the point that liana you and i have a consistent b&b game where we kind of dunk on uh the casual opinions on facebook she was the very very rare contestant that seemed to have everyone in her corner by the end maybe except for the jury and so it feels like to me production just absolutely loves her how they start the season with her breaking the fourth wall in her honor and so i i think they'd be really hard pressed not to feel like she would be at least extended the offer to come back. Right. And exactly. That's the thing that I keep going back to as well. Independent of my own personal feelings, I cannot deny the level of popularity that this woman had.

I mean, even when we get interviews from the next round of contestants for 45 and 46 saying Carolyn should have won. Carolyn's my favorite player i mean that impact for someone to have that kind of longevity is just it's it's unmatched and she has she has it you know i don't know what it is but she's got it well let's talk about maybe the person that she either controversially or uncontroversially lost to let's's talk about her number one ally in Jam Jam. Jam Jam, such a force of comedy and personality. Ever since we saw him in that preview, exalted the fact that he got to poop in the ocean,

but he didn't finish number two. He was number one in this competition. Somebody who does get clocked, certainly more so than his other tika allies at a certain point but is able to prevail and then delivers really a powerhouse of a final tribal council speech about how he was able to weaponize that sociability and that charm to walk away a million dollars richer and i think jam jam once again is like a shoo-in personality that if the new era were to bring back winners,

would be someone that they'd want to have back. I'd say probably alongside Marianne and Dee as like lock returnee winners from the new era. Radiates charisma. Just radiates charisma. I had the opportunity to meet him at one of the Survivor events, and you just

immediately are drawn into his spell it's it's someone you just want to be around you want to spend more time with and i know that from the the perspective of the casual audience as we talked about with carolyn you know jam jam was someone who maybe wasn't as highly rated in favor of carolyn r carson from this season but you just can't deny the impact that he had on the season and like you said i think if there was to be a winner that were to be brought back i think jam jam would be at the top of the list i do think again from a narrative perspective i mean he freaking won yeah right so so there's no unfinished business i'm coming back to you know clean up no this time i'm running unanimously i was one nearly unanimously last time it's like there's a there's only one way to go and it's up

all votes yeah that's so tough i look i think i think he's living his best life i would be very curious now if he would want to come back i i think he absolutely would. You think so? Yeah, I think he is very much taking, to your point, the victory lap or laps over the course of the past year, as you mentioned, showing up on a bunch of these survivor events. And I really do think he is someone who had a lot of fun getting to play this game

and especially getting to do these confessionals and meet the fans and everything. And so I don't see him declining the opportunity. The only reason why I would see him not getting asked in the first place would be if they don't bring back winners for the new era, if either it's a second chance or it's like best to never win. That's where I think Carolyn gets the ask over Jam Jam.

Plus, there is also this interesting narrative. Have you been following Jam Jam and Carolyn in the offseason about like, if you bring the two of them back together, there's not a 100% chance they're automatically going to fall in lockstep again. Right, exactly. I mean, Jam Jam has talked about how, look, this is, I don't think he used the exact words business trip, but he was out there to play the game and to win.

He executed that to a tee. And the friendship between him and Carolyn didn't necessarily persist as strongly after the season. And so a bit of a falling out and then anyway, whatever. So I think that putting the two of them together would be very interesting. You know, I know you mentioned, well, maybe we pick either Jam Jam or Carolyn, depending on more of the theme of the season. But part of me is like, if you're bring it back bring them both back let's see what happens that's the thing is that if this were new era all-stars and we talked about this actually in the last podcast with 43 about how i think there's a very strong chance they bring back

jesse and cody together or marianne and omer together i think there is something to we see this even as far back as like heroes versus villains, bringing back rivalries or close friendships and getting to retest those bonds now that you know each other a bit more and have one season under your belt. And so I do think there's a very good chance, again, if winners were extended the invite that they would have Jam Jam and Carolyn either on the same tribe or facing off against each other and seeing what happens unfortunately i would say with all due respect to heidi who i think especially towards the end i mean holds the record for fastest fire making challenge currently like and pulls off an underwood she is the first person since him to be like no you know what i'm gonna go do this i feel like i need some credit from the jury and she does get the credit. It's just not enough to make that passing grade necessarily to go to the head of the class. Heidi, I feel like with someone that until the late game was a bit on the quieter side for whatever reason,

which was a bit surprising for our runner up of this season. What do you think the chances are of Heidi getting asked back? Yeah, unfortunately, I do feel like it's a little bit on the chances are of Heidi getting ass back yeah unfortunately I do feel like it's a little bit on the lower end for Heidi if Heidi has maybe she can say I'm gonna break my own fire making record everyone coming in being like I'm gonna I'm fixed on the Olympics right now but it's like Katie Ledecky coming and being like well I'm gonna break my own world record this Olympics that's my goal yes exactly she's gonna break heredecky coming and being like, well, I'm going to break my own world record this Olympics. That's my goal. Yes, exactly.

She's going to break her own fire making record and get two votes from the jury. Take that. No, I look, I think I think Heidi played a really interesting game. I think what was the the one where she got to cast a vote? It was that. Do you remember what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was an advantage to block a vote or advantage or something yeah it was block a vote at the split tribal council when she sat on the bench she got to choose one person whose vote she would block and in the attempt to protect matt i think

she uh blocked jamie's vote if i remember correctly uh and it still did not save matt in the end or no she she blocked the vote but then was able to vote on their behalf basically if i remember if i remember that's the case yeah i remember that being an interesting choice strategically that then never fully like got explained and i don't know i just i i feel like we got to see heidi have an opportunity to have some of these moments and really be a bigger character and i just don't necessarily think and this is no no shade to her at all whatsoever i i just think in those moments it like she didn't necessarily

pop and i do feel like for 50 they want a cast of poppers you know what i mean oh boy well don't put too many poppers out there we only got like just like my saturday night yeah just imagine if jeff's like i don't know what you're playing for a bowl of poppers ketamine i mean that kind of feels like what 46 was on for a brief portion of time all right k-hole today no i don't think so um but anyway look i i think these are all these are three fantastic players i would be excited to see any of them i just just think realistically, probably Carolyn has the highest chance followed by Jam Jam and then Heidi. I would agree with that. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be.

Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Let's move into the jury here because the characters keep on a coming here so working our way up here we have the guy that uh despite the control of vote advantage which was the advantage that heidi got did still end up getting screwed out of the game during that ridiculous split tribal council in matt blankenship we have uh the first of the uh the raw two people to fall in former nfl player brandon though he saved himself from the getting being the first of the Ratu people to fall in former NFL player Brandon, though he saved himself from being the first voted out with an idol back in the premiere.

We have an out-and-out celebrity in the form of the Canadian Kane Fretzler. We have Matt's showmance partner and a low-key challenge beast of the season in Franny. We have the Tasmanian devil himself, Danny. We have the belovedly delusional Jamie Lynn Louise, the pixel queen herself. We have the bit of a quieter but still feisty single mom in Lauren and our final four fire making loser as we saw it dance in his eyes all season long in Carson and I want to start with Carson because again I think especially in the immediate wake of season 44 people would say the Tika three are all a lock to come back you know the the narrative was so focused around them especially towards the end game Carson himself very much personified to be like one of the main strategic narrators of the group someone that seemed to be had he won that

fire making challenge probably has a at least has a good shot of winning if not outright winning in the end even in an all tikka final three uh you know especially overcoming a bit of a perception against him being this like young 21 year old naive kid he showed that he was playing a much stronger game than maybe people let on initially until a certain point my thing is even outside of of maybe some some drama that carson has been involved with in the past few months what i'm i'm a little pontificating on liana is for the seasons that followed we have people like drew basile we have people like charlie davis even is carson somebody who might have lost out on an opportunity at a returnee spot with some of these other you know brainier guys coming in and and possibly taking that spot from him

i want to call back to what you said earlier on this podcast, which is that, you know, you have some of these newer, shinier seasons. And is that going to take away some of the light from the players on 44? And in this particular case, I think it's absolutely accurate. On the Survivor Reddit, sometimes they'll, people will do posts that'll be like, between these three, you know these three people of this archetype who would you want to see back and i think that carson has really suffered from that and sort of dropping down in the ranks because of some of these other players who are

maybe in similar archetypes to him that people would prefer to see back so for that reason i do feel like carson is probably a little bit lower on the list if this were straight out of 44 I totally would say top of my list highest likelihood to come back I mean everybody on the Facebook page was saying you know we need Carson and Carolyn back yeah Jam Jam played a good game but Carolyn and Carson need to come back and

now I just do feel like that has faded a little bit and I don't know if we will necessarily see him back for 50 right and again maybe there are other people that even came before Carson that might fall into a bit of this I wouldn't even say like silo archetype anymore Brandon Donlan and I were

talking I like the term fonts but she came up with like there's a lot of people in his font in Carson's font as it were that I think even someone like Drew not to spoil my podcast tomorrow but has a pretty monumental bump due to the fact that he is now one day equivalent of a runner-up prize in Jeopardy.

Charlie now has this incredible second chance story of coming so close to winning and for many reasons, it falling apart towards the end. Carson, again, has a little bit of that storyline, Jesse style of, okay, he was slotted in, he was a big power player of the post-merge, then it falls apart at the final four fire making. But I do think what unfortunately dulls Carson's shine here,

despite the fact that he does play an impressive game, in my opinion, in Survivor. Again, playing only when he was 21, there is something interesting to even a year older, a year wiser carson coming back and getting to play with a bit more of that life experience under his belt i just feel like unfortunately this might be a case where as much as people incorrectly say that all modern survivor casting is now is a bunch of nerds it just kind of unfortunately happens in that case.

Yeah. And this is also an observation that I, that I feel strongly about is that when you talk about the Tika three, he's almost the third player in that story. Obviously with jam jam being the winner, he's going to carry so much of the narrative with Carolyn, as you mentioned, giving the opening confessional and being such a foundation of season 44 carson feels a little bit like that third wheel you know yeah

he was kind of like keeping the gang together and really trying to to ride with the tika three but at the same time when you're talking about these larger characters gmgm and carolyn also rise above that so if we're talking about returning players from the Tika three, 44 Tika three, the font of nerdy white guy right there, there are just, it seems like in every single category, there's someone who just ekes out above him for a returning spot. I want to talk about the other person from this jury that I think has one

of the highest chances to return from this cast. And we don't have to go far. We have to go right below Carson on the slide to talk about franny because i do think franny is someone that defied expectations in multiple ways to our points about the font i think she is someone that comes in and we say okay this is our brainy woman of the season so we expect her to like make it emerge and get targeted for being a big strategic threat but franny surprises in multiple ways one of them being that she becomes a big challenge threat surprisingly so i think even to her own surprise she didn't necessarily expect that to be the case

but pretty much right off the bat after merg, she wins immunity in two of the next three episodes before she's finally voted out. And then when she doesn't win immunity that one time, she becomes the target and then has to get the idol played on her by Danny before she is finally voted out after winning the final eight reward challenge in the trip to the sanctuary. So Franny is this very fun character that is much more than meets the eye and that also shows in the thing she's probably most well known for from this season which is her romance with matt it is rare that we see survivor contestants you know fall into like with each other over the course of the season it's even rarer that the relationship persists to a significant extent after the season and franny and matt frankenship is still going strong at this moment and so i think that even emboldens her chances of coming back further and that she is able to now be that mouth to come back and say like survivor got me my boyfriend

matt and i fell in love and here i am to fall in love with a million dollars. Oh, I love it already. She was an immediate yes for me. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Franny is someone who I very much enjoy from seeing her on the show as well as interacting with her off the show. She just radiates fun and happiness.

And she's someone that you just want to be around and talk to and interact with. I very, very, very much love Franny to death. And I think that the narrative of her with Matt only helps the story. I think the fact that she was the copy, she learned so much about herself. She was also, I think, 23 when she played the first time. So to have her come back, be a couple years older, I want to see that version of franny she is someone who i think has the audience appeal she's someone who i think would be willing to come back she's someone who liana boris personally wants back therefore she meets all of the three important criteria for returning yeah she checks all the boxes again i think franny has i mean franny i

think cast full of unique people has one of the most unique stories out of this cast. And again, especially for someone within her archetype. So she is definitely someone I expect to see come back. I do think people may be unfairly broad brush 44, especially in retrospect, being like, well, all 44 had was the Tika 3 and the Nernmans between Franny and Matt. And I disagree.

I think, again, as we'll talk about, there are some more diamonds in the rough. But the fact of the matter is, if that is the most remembered things from the season, Franny is right up there with the alliance that dominates the season as the person to remember. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent.

And I think that as a memorable juror, that's a really great spot to be for a returning player because you were on the screen long enough for people to remember you people like you and you have story left to tell you have a place to go you're not trying to beat your fire making record right you have the opportunity to make it further in the jury or to ultimately win so for me franny is is a chalk pick so i want to talk about somebody who maybe may not make again that initial list of what people remember from 44, but someone I could definitely see get brought back depending on the theme. And that is drop the frog.

Keep the Annie at a D for Danny. Let's talk about the guy who plays an idol on Franny here, because Danny is this firefighter who comes into the game and much like Mike Turner a couple seasons ago, likes the game of Blaze a bit. He finds that idol. He eats the clue pulling an unintentional Werner along the way. He is the one that leads

Matt Blankenship to find the fake idol. He is the one who actually plays an idol on Franny, which I feel like is something that people very rarely do in the new era. I feel like, you know, Mike does it with Marianne, Jesse does it with Owen, but it's tough to find other people who necessarily, Jake does it to Katora. But Danny is someone who, of course, was also a big personality.

I mentioned the fart during the middle of the endurance challenge. I mean, him going out doing a Robert De N niro impression to jeff probes as he smuffs his torch i had a little bit of mixed results but i think goes to show that danny has this combination of personality and hunger to play the game and we've spoken about this as well obviously someone like tony is on the ballot but i think if production was looking for a new era version of a tony type to put on this season I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody but Danny to fill that category. Why do I have memories of Danny rolling through the jungle? Please tell me he did rolls through the jungle.

That was that was when he was like going into camouflage mode, getting the birdcage. Like he was doing some real tactical shit like he was pressing a in the legend of zelda a billion times yes okay i think that's one thing that i almost forgot a little bit about which was what a big character danny was especially early in the season and the pre-jury and even sort of like early jury now because of the success of the tika three i think that he gets a little bit overshadowed maybe because those three are really sort of the names that you remember from the season but as you mentioned a list an extremely long list of all the wacky stuff danny was doing out there and how involved he was and how aggressive he was when it came to playing the

game and i think that that's something that the new era really values they want people who are here to play fast play hard you see it with the shortening of the seasons we want people who aren't going to just sit back they are going to go full tilt right they're they're here for it and i think that danny out of the entire cast almost exemplifies that the most yeah and i think again he places respectively pretty high at final seven there is always the constant argument about if villains exist in the new era but i think there was some villainous stuff to danny's actions whether it was him pinning the idol on matt or obviously this like stewing pseudo rivalry with carolyn where carolyn just really did not care for him and was able to exact that revenge when she

plays the idol on carson and dann Danny is voted out there's even some like interesting bad blood we're like Heidi was trying to go after him it's a little bit like uh Kenzie and Tiffany actually were like Heidi wanted to go after Danny for a while and then she kind of relented on it but then the Tika they were like go after Danny huh that's a pretty great idea we should go do that and then as a result they take him out at seven. So I would say that like, for me, Danny, just due to the volume of characters that come, you know, and finish before him, I would probably put him at like, three, four, maybe even five on my prediction list from this season. But I would not be surprised at all if production asked him back for 50 considering all

the stuff he brought to the table that first time. Right, exactly. That's the thing is that Danny, you know, there's a difference between waiting for something to be given to you and then taking action versus I'm going to go out and make my own action. And Danny is the type of person who he is making his own action

for sure in sort of every facet of the show. And if I were a casting producer for Survivor, that's someone that I would want back. I would not be surprised at all if he got the ask. Now, I think in my opinion, it's a bit of a step down between the jurors we've talked about and the others.

And again, that's no slight to them, but just in terms of maybe what people remember from the season and what they'd be looking to carry forward. I would say, though, I think there's a case for a couple of these people to come back. I want to start with Jamie. Of course, previous B&B guest. I absolutely love Jamie. I think she's someone who, especially in the moment, was very highly regarded.

The show really made a meal out of Jamie Jamie much like the worms that she digests and namely the fact that she was led to find this idol that was actually fake but then Matthew happens to leave the game without telling her or anybody else that it was fake so she spends the entirety of the game gloating about this idol the show even shows in the lower

third that it is one fake idol and so Jamie was kind of our Delulu queen of the season and what's so interesting is when leilani you and i got the chance to talk to her about it on the b&b she fully embraced it which look you don't necessarily need to do as a reality tv contestant but it is is welcome sometimes to have somebody especially in the world of like the debbie the the coach the nora edits i wouldn't say jamie was necessarily on that side of the spectrum of wackadoodle edits but i think that she was

personified as one of the kookier characters of the season and so i could see a world where maybe she does get brought back as someone that does bring that positivity does bring that personality and does have a little bit of that, that, that Jason Siska with a smile energy to her of like, she really got played for a fool last time. Jamie's really tough for me to talk about in the sense that I'm extremely biased towards Jamie, because look, we had her on the B and B and oh my gosh, what a fun human being to interact with. She was just totally game for everything. So down, so fun. And those are the kinds of people that I just really naturally gravitate to. And so

it's tough for me to look at this objectively. But I am going to do my best in that look. And Jamie was not, you know, the top name coming out of the season. It's not like the casuals were all talking about Jamie. It was, she was put in a little bit of a box when it came to, this is the person that we're going to clown. This is what the editors are going to clown on Jamie. And that is sort of her story. We didn't really get to see much else from her.

She was, you know, the, the, like the sounding board for Matt or like Matt's sort of plant wife thing. Didn't it was that that was that them? I mean, she was on Ratu initially, so she was like it was her and Matthew were the plant mommy and plant daddy. Yes, plant mommy. Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Right.

So she was sort of in relation to Matthew, who is the main narrator of the season. And then it was sort of all about this idol is do. Yeah. Does production think that there's more there for her obviously knowing her i do feel like i would love to see her play again but if i'm thinking from someone else's perspective i don't know if she's necessarily the top of the list well let's talk about someone who went from getting clowned on by the edit perhaps to pretty much getting clowned on by the edit, perhaps, to pretty much getting clowned on by the game in poor Matt Blankenship. This really nice guy, very affable,

come-with-guy type of personality. Just unfortunately, this season ends up kind of screwing him over in multiple ways, whether it's him going to Shipwreel Island in the first episode and not even being given the offer to put his vote up for a bit it was just reach into a bag and either

you get no vote or you get an advantage and so Matt was basically forced to lose his vote there so he only cast one vote total in the game oh wait really? because remember he goes back to ship wheel island yeah because he no because remember it was you can reach in and you he grabbed a no bow slip and they said okay

it's basically double or nothing where you can try again and he did and he lost his vote for a second tribal council and so he thinks great i can vote now i have this idol that's not a real idol i've got franny i'm home free then we get to the split tribal council here at the final 11 which did things a little bit differently where they did split them into two groups but they basically did the Fiji merge where like one

group was fully immune and could not vote and so Matt ends up getting sent off to another camp so he left his bag behind which contains his fake idol and his shot in the dark. And it's him and Heidi against two Rattus and Jam Jam. And it's basically him versus Jam Jam up for grabs there. Or no, it wasn't even him and Heidi.

It was just down to him and Jam Jam and the Rattus determine who is the one to go. And so poor Matt, he tries to offer people papayas in these trying days, but it was certainly something that in the moment people were definitely up in arms about. And so I think I talked about this actually yesterday with Chappelle that for me, a lot of returnees fall into either like plot returnees or character returnees in terms of reasons why they're brought back.

Matt would be a plot returnee that this is a guy who just had so much happen to him over the course of this game and arguably on paper he should be given a shot to like actually play a game that is more solid in terms of structure and allow him to vote in more than one tribal council from a character perspective again he seems like a really nice sweet guy i don't know if it necessarily pops compared to the personalities around him. But again, depending on what they're going for in terms of theme, there could be a world where I'd see him back. Do you think if Franny is brought back,

there's a higher likelihood of Matt coming along as well? I don't think so, actually. OK, so you don't think that the couple, they would be willing to bring the couple back? I mean, I feel like they reserve that for the Rob and Amber stuff. Maybe they used to do that back in the day with bringing JT and Sugar back when they used to kick it.

I don't even think Michelle and Wendell, they knew that that stuff was happening. I feel like with Franny and Matt, it would just be something that would take up so much airtime in the first couple rounds because like we saw in Winners of War, the talk would pretty much be, okay, Matt so much airtime in the first couple of rounds, because like we saw in winners of war, the talk would pretty much be okay. Matt and Franny are on the Island together.

We know they're going to support each other when they merge. So let's get rid of one of them. I think if Franny were to not do it for whatever reason, they might put Matt in there, but I think they'd more so bank on like Matt comes out for Franny's loved ones visit. Unless you never know. Apparently like both Brad and Monica Culpepper

got contacted for Game Changers and Monica turned it down. To your point, there could be a world where production's like, oh, we want to see these lovebirds back out there and we'll see how cutthroat they are. Let's see if Matt can vote more than one time for Matt. He voted for Jam Jam twice,

once to get him out of the game and once for him to win. That's such a cute. That's all he knows how to do is vote Jam Jam in this game. Lose his vote and then vote Jam Jam. Exactly. He's going to get out there.

He's like, I thought that was the only person I could vote for. It was Jam Jam. He's not playing this season. Yeah, look, Matt, Matt's someone who does have the, you know, the Charlie Brown, right? The kind of the football game of that.

And that's what makes him a little bit endearing to me i i think there's a world where it's possible i just don't think i mean i had to be reminded of all of that and you know we talked about it not that long ago so i'm just thinking about what what is his legacy when it comes to maybe the survivor casuals and i think that they can fall in love with him once they see him again I just don't know if production is going to take that chance to briefly talk about the other three members of the jury the rat twos I think unfortunately

this was just kind of the oddity that was the rock to tribe and that they had a big presence in the very beginning of the game with the chaos of that first tribal council but then it was a pretty much muted presence for the rest of this season lauren does make it to the finale but has a very understated edit compared to the four people that finish ahead of her and even the three people that finish behind her she does get sia money uh due to i think her really heartwarming story that she brings into the finale where again i could see if they say oh well she

made it far enough in the game that she might have some some redemptive qualities to her they would want to see her back but i think it's more of a slim chance and then both kane and brandon you know brandon obviously pops a bit more due to the fact that he does find this idol and plays it uh one of the earliest idol plays in Survivor history and saves himself with the idol as well. Kane, you know, I think has a bit more of a presence behind a D&D screen than a television screen. And so I would not necessarily expect to see any of the three of them come back. I think Brandon's life is fine. I think that Kane already got a shout out from Bruce. How much more famous can you get

yeah you have to save him for celebrity survivor exactly he's too big for us now he just has to be on the celebrity version he can't be on the the one with all the plebs lauren though is an interesting one for me because i like i personally i want to know what's there I just don't like it when you have such uneven editing and I quickly check the confessional chart for 44 you have jam jam getting 81 confessionals you have carol which I believe is is that the most in new era history I believe it might be I don't remember how many did d have last season I feel like she got a lot or maybe she just got a lot for a woman because of the way that, you know, anyway, but even

even Carolyn and Carson. So Carolyn got 65. Carson got is, you know, 59, almost 60 confessionals and Lauren sitting there with half that at 30. So I'm like why? Like, tell me why. Is it just because there was another story that the survivor editors wanted to tell, which

is fine? Or was Lauren giving nothing in confessionals? Right. So that is what is always confusing for me, because there are players that when they don't get a big edit, I want to know. But do they have that potential? Like, could they be that character? We just didn't get to see it because there was another prevailing narrative that needed to be told instead of her story. And so I like personally. Would want to advocate for that. That being said. I just don't think it's likely.

That she's going to get ass back. Dee by the way got only 63 confessionals. So I think Jam Jam. Very much sticks out. In terms of having that. Very out in the blue. Confessional presence understandably. So let's talk about. our pre-jury here because yeah this was a big loss in terms of a bunch of these characters in the

pre-season of course we're getting our way up we'll talk about the only new era person at this point to get a returnee slot in the form of bruce who comes right back the next season after only spending 11 hours i think this first time around we have the idled out person voted out in the pre-merge in Maddie we have Helen who was the first victim of Tika that was actually voted out rather than Bruce we have Claire who ends up changing and being a game changer herself and that Jeff modifies the sit out rules after that after she basically sits out back-to-back challenges. We have Sarah, who, you know, just doesn't necessarily fit into Tika very much so

after she finds this fake idol, has this, like, vacuum advantage where she can play it at a tribal council and basically take back all the idols that were played at that tribal council, but basically goes out after Josh plays his and Carolyn flips to vote her out. We have Matthew, who is a huge presence on this season and obviously gets taken out in one of the more unconventional medivacs

and that it was like a self-sustained rock climbing injury. Then we have our mergatory boot in josh who i think uh brought a lot of consternation from his fellow players throughout the season whether it was you know uh the what was it the the soka tribe not necessarily getting on with him and him being kind of a target there or when he gets swapped over to the tika tribe and obviously a lot of the bristling that him and Jam Jam had now I said this before Liana that I think on paper it'd be tough to really consider

any pre-jury castaway in the new era for a returning season just because there are so many big characters that make it to the jury uh that would probably get spots over them but there are a couple of exceptions in this group and i want to start with matthew because matthew only lasts half of this season but good lord the season half season that he did last was eventful af this was a guy that even with one working shoulder threw himself into the game he is the one that after the brandon idol play is done makes his own fake idol leads his closest ally to it finds it in her presence so that like okay now we're brought in on the secret together only to know that it is a fake idol he's the one that as soon as carson gets swapped over immediately starts making a bond with him this guy was eager to play the game to the point where he

injures himself pretty much in the first few days because he wants to fully embrace this experience in every way shape and form and then it gets to the point where right before emergitory happens basically his pain has accelerated to a point where basically he is given this offer on screen of, okay, listen, you could further aggravate this and just keep yourself in agony, but continue to play, or you can pull yourself right now. And he chooses to do the latter. Given the way he went out, Liana,

how do you think that could affect Matthew's chances of returning? OK, it's really interesting because I don't know how much the show is going to draw a distinction between medically evacuated and quit. Yeah, I mean, we know that that latter term has become very charged as recently as the season that comes after this. Exactly, exactly. And that's why when, you know, I was prepping for the podcast and I was looking back through and I was thinking about everybody and I was like, oh yeah, Matthew, you know,

when you talk about Danny being a super active player, Matthew is exactly the same, like also super active, doing a lot, but it says quit. I dropped my water bottle. Your water bottle quit. My water bottle quit. And that's the thing.

And that's what makes me nervous for him. Your water bottle fell like Matthew fell off the rocks. Oh no. I'm going to have to medically evacuate. Sorry, quit my water bottle. Just to be clear. As long as it didn't leave a fake idol for me somewhere. If it does, I think you have

many more problems than your water bottle. Yeah, a bit of a possession haunting situation going on. I need a priest. Okay, so Matthew, Matthew is someone who when I look at the pre jury list, he was the first one that kind of popped out as Oh, yeah, this is someone who you could see come back. Is this someone who comes back for 50? or is this someone who maybe comes back if they do sort of a injured player returning season or something exactly is he the top of the list for 50 and i think that because you have the there's the ending of his story is not satisfying i want to know what else matthew would do especially when he got to the merge when he got to interact with other players you know how

ultimately does this play out we see him also is he one of the ones that uses the shot in the dark defensively in the very very first episode yeah he sort of does what omer is able to utilize at the mergatory of 42 which is like hey, hey, if I don't have a vote, then no one knows where my loyalty lie, because he was one of the closest people to Brandon who was this tribe-wide target. He had tipped off Brandon that he was the target but said, like, hey, if I don't

vote, if I just say, oh, I'm so spooked because Jamie played hers, then I'll play mine, then nobody knows where my loyalty is like, because I didn't put pen to paper. Exactly, and that's the type of innovative thinking that because i didn't put pen to paper exactly and that's the type of innovative thinking that you know you want to see and that's what made me excited about matthew when he was playing the first time obviously that was cut short so i would be happy to see him back i would be happy to see what else that he would do but again you

know you you got to think look do the pre-jurors stand a chance of being asked back? And he's probably the one that is the highest likelihood is from this group, especially. Yeah, there's a possibility for it. Yeah. I mean, this is going to be a ridiculous comparison, but I feel like Matthew could be to season 50 what Boston Rob was to all stars where it was like, yes, OK, they don't necessarily seem like a quote-unquote all-star to me but they were a huge presence on their season but they end up getting sniped halfway through that was matthew where again this guy consistently was the person to go to on rat just because he was doing so much especially with all the idols and advantages that were being

thrown into the game but he gets taken out about halfway through so i could very much see a reason to bring him back i think there are cases for other people across all these seasons to do so but i would not be surprised in the least especially if there's a theme of second chances i mean matthew has one of the best second chance potentials out of anybody on this cast. Oh, 100 percent. Just make sure there's no rocks out there. It's a no rock season.

Yeah, they're just going to take out all the rocks that exist within Fiji's natural landscape. No rocks. This is that's right. You know what? You know what that means? No tie votes either. No, we're going back to the trivia tiebreaker. No rocks allowed.

Right. No rocks in any capacity. Sand gone. Tiny rocks. Don't even want it anymore. And you know what? You can't even draw rocks for spots. You're going to have to take a slip like you're at the butchers.

Exactly. No rocks. Only sticks. Only the short stick. Shout out to Lauren. That was an innovative strategy as well when it came to journeys. Right? So the other person I want to talk about from this group in a major capacity is the other medevac player here and this is an interesting situation for bruce because bruce has already been given this second chance he pops up in 45 i would imagine

is vastly different than i think any of us would have predicted given our thinking even going into 44 being one of the loudest presences out there i think much of the chagrin of a lot of people that were playing alongside him but you could say on one hand okay we got our question answered of like what does bruce the survivor player look like when he's not majorly concussed that being said liana do you think there was enough from 45 that makes us feel like he would be called back for a third season I don't think so unfortunately I I do feel look I'm happy that they brought Bruce back to get it medically evacuated essentially within the first five

minutes of playing the game like that is a fate that I do not even wish on my worst enemy so for Bruce to have the opportunity to come back and play I think that that is absolutely deserved I'm so happy that he was back I think that then he got to sort of live out this fun uncle Bruce character and we got to see that we got to see you know his uh all of his robot dances and everything I think that was really fantastic if they have an extra slot for sort of a little bit of the comic relief character and we got just like bruce in the background that i'd be happy with but i didn't need to can they paint bruce gold and make him be one of those street performers in europe maybe i just watched the opening games that he's just like in the background being an

entertainment figure that they can interact with when they're bored yes they'll have the thing where it like looks like he's floating because he's got the thing up his leg or whatever he's sitting he'll put coins fire tokens behind people's ears okay so he became a street musician music musician and then in my mind now he's a mime and he's like no no you can't make bruce a mime you know that guy will not stop talking oh I you know he's so so fun so enjoyable but I I just do think because he's had the opportunity for two seasons that it's probably lower on the list unless it is some kind of you know Philippines 2.0 and it's tough because I think especially the the one two three arguable four punch of like Maddie, Helen, Claire, Sarah sucked in the moment

just because I think these were very fun characters that were kind of done in by this prevailing theory that was certainly talked about then and now as well of like in the three tribe format, physical strength is looked at as more of an asset now more than ever. And so you have to look to these smaller women as those to get rid of immediately. And that happens three times over with maddie helen and claire i think on paper i would

love to see any of them get a second chance i i just think this is a case where there are so many people ahead of them when it comes to the odds of returning that i think unfortunately that second chance won't come in season 50. I agree with you on that one. I think it's you know, it's always unfortunate because these people were cast for a reason. Like there's a reason why that they were chosen in the first place, because they have a story to tell. They have something interesting that they're going to do in the game. When you look at a season like 44, especially that says has such uneven editing and such a clear group of like, these are the people we want to highlight. They just fall to the wayside.

All right. Well, Liana, we have to pick five people to not fall by the wayside. You don't want to talk about Josh? What do you want to say about Josh? I think Josh should be OK. I just remember Josh being like really funny in funny when he swapped over to Tika. Like I really liked Josh's character that existed for maybe like a few episodes

that we got to see from him. Yeah. I don't think that he will be asked back to be clear. But that being said, I very much enjoyed his little arc that we got to see on the show. So I think he deserves a special shout out for that. The Matthew Medevac episode

is one of the funniest in recent memory and probably one of my favorite episodes of the season when he's like well guys you can't get rid of me because i have an idol and jimmy goes like josh are these the beats from tree mail yes exactly and then it falls apart in his hands that's like no don't do that to my idol oh my gosh it was so good uh but yeah sorry josh well we are not gonna leave five people by the wayside today here the time has come liana for us to pick who is going to make the short list from this cast let's just start with edging this out one person at a time why don't you give me like who is your chalk number one person that you want to put on the shortlist? Yes.

Okay, thank you. Because now I'm even more confused after having talked it through with you. So my chalk number one pick, it's been this way from the second that I knew I was going to be doing 44. It's Franny. Put her on the board.

Put her on the board. Let's have, maybe she'll bring back her, was it Praying Mantis child as well yeah versus water season three i will and i understand the the reservations that you brought up about her storyline but i think it's a little bit of what are we doing here if we don't put carolyn on the wish list for the season yeah yeah i oh look i I totally, I totally agree with you there. I think she has to be there just from a pure fan favorite perspective. Like, what are you doing if her name is not in the mix?

All right. So I feel like we could bounce around to some other names here. We've talked about Jam Jam. We've thrown out Danny. We've talked about Matthew. I mean, those are three names right there. Are there any other ones you're considering? Yeah, no, Danny is the one who immediately popped to the forefront for the next person that I would add. I think that he, in that third place sort of slot, I think that, not that these are ranked necessarily,

but I do feel like that is a good place for him. So I do think Danny. And I think Matt also really think he should be on that list because the fact that it's second like it could be second chances i think it's high high high high high likelihood when you only have you know four tens like okay i mean obviously you have all the seasons that you could theoretically pick from but i thought i hope so otherwise i don't know what i've been doing with my life for the past two and a half months. Oh, yeah, Mike, I got bad news for you. You wasted a lot of time.

No, I. Tell it to me 10 years ago. Oh, yeah. You were a lost cause from the second that you knew all of those A.I. names of like you knew every name of every episode of Survivor ever. Like you say, you sound like what a delivery doctor said to my mom in 1989. This is a lost cause. This is a lost cause this is a lost cause look already i can tell this is what he's gonna remember names of survivor episodes really

humiliate himself yes but in that moment you looked so smart and then we all felt so bad for you okay um so so so that being said second chances i think I think I think Matthew is a really great person for that second chance narrative. I agree. And I think the last person I would throw on there would probably be Jam Jam. And maybe it's colored because we did put Marianne on in 42 and spoiler alert for tomorrow. I think there's a high likelihood I might at least petition for D to get on the list. So I'm not discounting winners because, again, the purpose of this entire exercise is that we don't know what 50 is going to be. And I think if they were including

winners and especially recent winners between the personality, between what he displayed and between the fact that he is also a very popular and well-remembered contestant from the season, I think Jam Jam should be our fan. What do you think? 81 confessionals, Mike.

Yeah. Don't get to 81 confessionals by being a dud. This man is here to play. He's here to stay. And if he does come back for 50, I would not be surprised. All right. So our five from 44 with some ages here, we have Jam Jam currently 38.

Carolyn, 37. We have Danny, 33. Franny, 25. And Matthew, 45, which is the season we're talking about tomorrow. Last but certainly not least, Liana. It was a tough job cutting it down to only five, but, and perhaps one of the contestants on 44

has already done this, if you could look outside of the island, are there any contestants from this season that you would want to see on a reality show besides Survivor? Josh! Put Josh on something! I just, I think he's going to go. He's going to cause chaos.

I would be here for it. Honestly, I think Josh on the challenge is not a bad idea. Yeah, he was really athletic. Bill, I think he's got that going for him. Jamie, obviously, I would love to see in some capacity. Jamie would be great on the challenge because she's a yogi too. And so I think she has that athleticism to her. But Josh, especially, I could very much see it.

Because as you said, he is built, but he brings that messiness as well, which just feels like the perfect combination. I actually think Jamie on the mole for me is perfect casting because Jamie was so confident in herself. Right. And that's what we want to see in those contestants are people who are unabashedly in their their, you know, in their own headspace all the time about how right they are about everything yes i think jamie on the mole i think jamie on traitors as a traitor if she could do that like happy little jamie as a traitor killing people in the nighttime i think that could be very fun but also you know any of the people that we have mentioned for our five if they don't end up on 50 there's plenty of other fun reality shows out there yeah I think jam jam on something

like the goat could be very fun or Carolyn as well of just like you know put their personalities on a show that's ridiculous like that that kind of makes fun of the reality TV trips I feel like they're very well suited for that yes absolutely all right well I mentioned it many times

Liana tomorrow we venture into season 45 we have expanded episodes we have some ridiculous things to happen with that cast and we have one of the most dominant alliances and one of the most dominant players in the new era history to talk about in the form of d you don't need to stray very far from the household liana is in because i will be joined by her number one puya and unlike heidi and danny they will not look to cut each other as number one but puya is going to be joining me tomorrow to put another group of people on the short list for 45 liana from your perspective who would be on your short list for 45 well obviously because i didn't

pick bruce here i gotta pick bruce and 45 45 i think bruce from 45 would be more of an a pick than 44 bruce it's actually so funny because okay uh you know puya and i we know each other so we were talking about this and we were like how funny would it be if we both come in and strongly advocate for Bruce? Like both of us are like, no, Bruce. I mean, I feel like you would have the much tougher job by comparison. I feel like he'd be dealt the much easier hand. I think I would just have to pretend I have amnesia and that 45 didn't happen. And it's like, Bruce got medevaced on day one. Mike, how do you not bring this man back? Were you just trying to simulate theuce experience and bumped your head and forget that he was on an entire other season of survivor exactly yeah i pulled a bruce and then forgot about bruce um no i look i think

for me caleb is number one with a bullet he's someone who i would absolutely love to see play again him and emily you know i know emily has said like look maybe i'm not interested but girl if you're interested i would kind of kind of want to see that. But I think it's another season with so many people that you can pick from. I'm really curious to hear what you and we end up deciding. Yeah, the job keeps on getting harder

as we approach the last two seasons before the polls open. Liana, thank you so much. I know this was far from an easy job to do, but we were able to scale the rocks and make it to the top here without crumbling too, too much. What do you want to plug for people

right now? Drag Race is over, but is there anything else that you'd like to put out there in the social media universe? Yes. Drag Race All-Stars 9 is over. We recorded the finale, so if you're in the space, you know it's done and you can hear Aman and I's thoughts on the finale. But, you know, if you're if you're in the space, you know, it's done and you can hear him on a nice thoughts on the finale. But other than that, I am taking a much needed break from all of the wonderful reality TV goodness that is going on right now.

Just couch watching Big Brother and everyone yell at each other and seeing all the memes and just enjoying all of that. All right. games and uh just uh enjoying all of that all right well looking forward to seeing uh what you're going to bring whether it comes to your couch commentary on big brother or inevitably when you and i get back together to talk about survivor 40 several in just a smidge of time but first we've got to talk about season of 45 and some players to put on the short list which i'll be doing tomorrow with puya thank you all so much for listening. Until next time, everybody, take care. Bye-bye.