RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: 50 Post Mortem

Episode Date: May 23, 2026

Survivor Global: 50 Post Mortem Shannon Guss and Chappell are back to check in one the final weeks of Survivor 50, including the winning and finalist games, the edit, the finale, the twists and arguing over Cirie’s best games and a GOAT ranking. Survivor Global returns as Shannon Gus and special guest Chappell dig into the chaotic and polarizing endgame of Survivor 50. With the milestone season just wrapped, Shannon and Chappell don’t hold back on their takes, breaking down why Survivor 50 lands in a complicated spot in the series rankings. Was this season a missed opportunity or a bold, legacy-defining ride? The duo debate production’s impact, the twists that shaped the late game, and the strategic choices that define this unforgettable finale. On this episode of Survivor Global, Shannon and Chappell dissect Survivor 50’s pivotal tribal maneuvers, the controversial “beastwear” coin flip twist, and a predictable-yet-layered finale. They spotlight Rizo’s underappreciated game, Aubry’s journey to victory, and the multi-faceted legacy of Cirie. From fiery jury debates to awkward reunion moments, no stone is left unturned. The hosts weigh in on shifting alliance structures, how production’s choices favored (or hampered) big moves, and where Aubry’s win fits among new era Survivor legends. Emotional highlights, like Devens’ heartfelt farewell under the Fijian stars and Ozzy’s raw confessional about his own misplay, frame what makes this season memorable, even as questionable twists create frustration for superfans. Key moments discussed: – The “beastwear” coin flip and why it divides the fanbase – Rizo’s strategic pivot and why his subtle moves may be underrated – The impact of production-driven twists on both gameplay and viewer engagement – Cirie’s enduring legend status, plus a comprehensive ranking of her eight reality show appearances – The reunion’s infamous live blunder and what it says about the show’s evolving format Will twists continue to overwhelm Survivor’s tribal politics, or can the open era find a balance between unpredictability and genuine gameplay? How do players like Aubry and Rizo navigate jury perception amid evolving win conditions? Listen now for a sharp, passionate breakdown of Survivor 50’s finale, the future of twists, and what defines greatness in Survivor’s toughest games! 0:00 Survivor 50 Global Post-Season Begins 1:06 Is Survivor 50 a Top Season? 2:45 Missed Opportunities and Highs Discussed 4:47 Finale and Live Reunion Shortcomings 6:03 Production Blamed for Predictable Endgame 8:20 Fans’ Role in Fire-Making Twist Debated 11:04 Aubry’s Edit Versus Actual Agency 14:01 Rizo and Jonathan’s Final Three Strategy 17:18 Could Rizo Have Won Survivor 50? 20:09 Analyzing Rizo’s Endgame Moves 24:20 Jonathan’s Social Game Missteps 36:38 Perception, Legacy, and Final Jury Votes 50:35 Ranking Aubry’s Survivor 50 Win 65:10 Ranking Cirie’s All-Time Survivor Games 91:31 Survivor 50 Twists: Hits and Misses To order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH: Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT: Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hello. Survivor is saying. Survivor New Zealand. Survivor Survivor World South African 12 ordinary Australians

Hello Hello Hello for million Eau I think million

of Spaces Shirever Spoke for the adventure of a life Hello Hello

Hello everyone in here that the season is over, got in right in time when the season was done. To do a bit of a post-mortem on this season, the last time we checked in on Survivor Global was about a month ago. We've had four episodes since then. A lot has happened. Like, last time we were here, Mr. Beatt said not even graced our Survivor screens. And now we have a winner. So a lot has happened.

And to talk about it with me again, I have Chappelle. Shappelle, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. As much as I love talking to you, I really love talking about Survivor as well. And so any chance I get to talk about Survivor, even if it's for Survivor 50 and other seasons, I'm down. I'm down.

And like, I'm not low on Survivor 50. I'm, I have thoughts. I was just saying, like, I'll just put it like that. But I'm definitely interested to hear yours. Yeah, because last time we were here, the question was, is 50 bad? Right.

And now that we're out of it, where do we land? Where do you land? You land that it's good? Good. Good is a struggle. Good is really a struggle. It is, it is because it's like, okay, we have 50 seasons to choose from.

Is it in the top 25 seasons of all time? I think I could at least estimate it to be at 25. Really? Yeah, at 20. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I wouldn't quibble if somebody said it's number 25. Now, once we get to 24, you know, I need to see your data.

You know, I need to see what are the moments, who are the characters, who are the people, what stood out to you that made this season so great. This season definitely had highs, but I think it wasn't missing just like the exclamation point on the season. I think the beware advantage with Mr. Beast and all that kind of stuff.

Like that's a thing that happened. But it happens a little bit into the season. Like, you know, it's a couple episodes ago. It doesn't feel like a climactic moment in the season. It felt like we were building to something else that we just didn't quite get. And so for me, I would love to see what the rankings are for most people.

but I would say top half if I had to guess, what about you? It's funny that you wouldn't put it in the middle there because I think it might kind of get there for some people. I think maybe a bit lower for me, but I think if it's getting to that middle range, it's because it was so good and so bad. It was never mid.

Like I think that's the thing. And then it estimates out to that middle range. I mean, I do think it is the second best survivor season I've watched this year of the two that I've seen, which is sad because that was like a mid-tier Australian survivor season, which no one expected anything from. And I think it was better than like this big landmark 50 season. And I think that's what's so disappointing is like 50 needs to be better than mid.

You know what I mean? Like I think that this season is like the missed opportunity season because so much was great. Like when it was hitting, it was so good and you would see how amazing it could be. And especially because a lot of that stuff came early, it was like this could be one of the best seasons ever. If they just did nothing, like if production did nothing and maybe had a slightly more even cast, then the stars that they did pass and the storytelling that they did have, and some of these incredible highs that we got and some of the legacy building that they did and the montages and kind of looking back at this history could have made it one of the best seasons ever,

but they kept getting in their own way. So for me, it's like, you see what you can have. And then it's disappointing might be the word because of what it could have been. That doesn't mean that we didn't get these extreme highs. I mean, the last few weeks alone, Devin's saying, you know, you're close to to heaven. You can see the Fijian stars and then looking up before he gets voted out. I cried. Ozzie talking to Devin's about his relationship with his father on the show and

Devin's talking about that as a father obviously like really really made sense for me and really affected me and then he goes home with an idol the same way in that episode like he's evolved so much we see that and he's still the same person like beautiful storytelling better storytelling them we're going to get in many other seasons we're not as invested but then episodes that were just like a chore like a pain because you would just watch these twists just suffocate some players that you often really cared about.

So yeah, it's a very hard one to define because it's so all over the spectrum. Yeah, I mean, I know you said there are no mid episodes, but, you know, it's funny that we're talking about this this week. I say the finale is the mid episode. I think it just... I don't think it was bad. See, and I don't think it was bad.

It just didn't give, it didn't have a... It didn't have any punch to it, you know? Like, I'm very happy with the winner. she did a great job. I'm sure we'll talk about all of that and more. But, you know, for the finale episode, you have, you know, kind of like almost like a, like a, you know, a coordination for Aubrey, which is great.

But at the same time, we also have this live reunion, which is a nothing burger. And I'm talking about nothing. They got, they mind nothing from it. I wouldn't say it was an awful live reunion because we definitely got one extremely funny, iconic moment that we'll always talk about for the end of time. But aside from that,

like it just felt like a little ho-hum, you know, and, you know, that's not, that side is not particularly production's fault. I mean, the reunion thing is definitely

production's fault. But, you know, the last three or four, you know, boots or whatever that we got in this last episode, to me, it just was a little bit

more of the same, you know, like, when the challenge, do the firemaking and then, you know, go to the end

and we get a, yeah, a balanced looking final tribal council, but I didn't, it didn't have a moment. And I think that's what I was, I'm going to push back that that's not production's fault. Like I do believe that it's production's fault because the setup of the end game

makes these finarlings more predictable than they are unpredictable because what's going to happen at the final five? These people are locked into a final three. Then there's fire at four. There's intrigues that can happen. We just saw this in Australian survivor at a five or a four or a three when we have a final two or when you have a final three. They're locked in.

So you're going to a final five where all someone can do is save themselves with immunity because we have our majority and it actually made a lot of sense for Rizzo, Jonathan and Joe, all to go to the end together. Like, they were lined up in that way. So why should anything happen at five? And then, like, the big moment

is that Aubrey's going to win that immunity at four. But I think the way, you know, they were kind of, I think, hamstrung with the edit. Like, it was really clear that Aubrey had this winner edit. Like, I think that I could have predicted the entire finale down to the jury votes. Yeah. And I couldn't have predicted that in Australian Survivor this year.

You know what I mean? So I think, like, it's the formatting. it's parts of what I don't even really blame them for the edit but what the edit had to be. And another thing I will say that I will blame production for because I just said on Australian Survivor. Like sometimes, you know, the lesser players get to the end and that's just survive and we have to deal with it

and we don't want them to force these mechanisms in to, you know, not have that. We have to just accept that sometimes it's not the people you want at the end. And in this season, I will say firstly, they do try to force those mechanisms so that doesn't happen and it does. But also this one is actually their fault because we see these in these uneven returny fees. the people you kind of don't expect, you can expect,

we'll all team up together to be, you know, at the end because they all know they have to go with each other. And I think we've seen that in multiple returning seasons, even across franchises and Australia Survivor, was another example of that by David. So I actually think that, like, production, for all that US production tries to do to stop these lackluster end games, like they actually did the one thing that would create it in a returning season,

which was not having like a unified theme and having a bit of an uneven cast. where obviously like, you know, some of the quote unquote bottom feeders like will kind of go to the end together. So yeah, I mean, I kind of do play production for the fact that this happens. And I think that if you look back at like some old finale

in the, you know, like a lot of them, like they kind of spoke for themselves recently. And I think that that's production's fault. Yeah, the casting definitely is their fault. But, you know, the firemaking challenge isn't their fault. That was in the hands of the fans. No, it wasn't. Please stop. It was in the hands of the fans.

The fans voted 60% of the fans said, this is what we want. 60%, more than half of the fans said this. And so who would they be to give us something that more than half of the fans don't want? They gave us a firemaking challenge. It was exactly what we thought it would be. Like you said, some of the smaller players, you know, as far as like their legacy and their games are the ones who are put into this fire to go ahead and lose to this other person who has won her way to the end in a very impressive matter, by the way. but yeah, I think that it just didn't have the umph to it.

And I think you're right, it is the edit. I think if you're paying attention and you know Surrey is not going to win because that makes sense, then you have automatically started to look at who are the alternative winners. And for me, it was always Aubrey. You know, like if Ozzy wasn't going to make it to the end with Surrey and lose to Surrey, then somehow Aubrey was going to be the one to come out of this. I'm very happy for Aubrey, but I do think that with the way the show was edited, it doesn't really show what Rizzo?

in game once he turns on Ozzy and Surrey. We find that out in this episode, basically that, oh, yeah, or in this exit press. Oh, we had, I had a final three with Joe and Jonathan. You could have told us that weeks ago, and then we would be watching Rizzo try to navigate to that final three. Same thing with Jonathan. You know, if Jonathan's goal was to get there with Joe and Rizzo, it makes sense for him to target Ozzie, to target three in that order, to target, you know, target Tiffany

and to say, oh, no, this is the three that I need to have. But they don't really give him his point of view. we really get the Surrey point of view until Surrey is gone, and then it becomes the Aubrey point of view. And to me, that's kind of the difference. And that's why it was, to me, very obvious that Aubrey had a really good shot at winning this. Jeff famously says there is no such thing as a winner at it, but yeah, he's wrong. I don't know.

I'm not shocked that Jeff doesn't understand his show. But to me, in anybody else who's paying attention that Aubrey had a story throughout from the very beginning, and we tracked her, you know, in her trajectory. all the way through. And so it made sense. It just, it didn't have a lot of impact because it wasn't like a shocker. It wasn't that Aubrey, it wasn't painted like Aubrey overcame the odds to get there. And she really did.

You know, with this alliance of three people against her, it really should have felt like the last couple weeks is like, we're all after Aubrey, we're all after Aubrey, we're all after Aubrey. And instead it felt like, we can go after Tiffany this time. Okay, now we can go after Aubrey. And then it's like, oh, well, Arby won. So now she wins the game. So, yeah, I think there's a little bit to be desired. in the edit. And that is definitely part of the reason why I would say,

uh, about half. Yeah. Well, the thing is that they had to lie to us in the edit. Like, it was given to us as Aubrey's agency in the end game. And what we kind of found out in this finale and through Xopress, as you're saying, is that that wasn't the case. Like, there was this final three of guys who all knew their best shot was against each other. Like, they were so, it was so optimal to all go together. Like, it was such a mutual interest. So they were doing that and it was given to us as Aubrey's point of view. Now, that's not actually true. Like, as we now see,

Aubrey was put in a position where she had to win that challenge, which was unlikely. You know, she was up against these challenge B. She probably wasn't going to win fire. Like, it was a do-or-die challenge for her. Like, getting into that position wasn't really her agency

because it didn't put her in the best spot. It put these three guys in the best spot, but then something comes up and, like, upends it. And I think Rob, when talking to Rizzo, even compared it to him, Mateo and Bush with Jenna coming through in the Amazon. And I thought that was quite an apt comparison. But it's given to us so much as Aubrey.

And I guess if you are, like, again, someone who can, I don't even read the edit. Like, you don't have to be super literate in the edit to see that they are giving her things that aren't necessarily happening. And we can talk through kind of all of the credit that she was getting there. Because the show, and I don't really even really blame the show for this, the show is worried about fans being mad at the winner. And I do, I don't really blame the show because we also with like female winners as well

or like complicated winner stories to tell. The fans do get mad and they're trying to make that not happen. Australian Survivor might do that even more than the US. does where it's like it doesn't they the fans and you actually probably have to just like probably blame the average fan the average fan who should be like oh i i i don't know i feel that always win like that's interesting or okay like she wasn't necessarily he necessarily play a great game and they just like move on with it or kind of examine that like that to me is what makes the vibe is so interesting the quote unquote best player and that in itself is a loaded term but doesn't they don't always win

If we were all just kind of okay with that, Data could kind of just tell the story as it was happening. This is a very hard story to tell. Again, Aubrey was the right threat at the right time, pretty much like right in the middle under Surrey, Devin's Tiffany, but over the three guys, she wins one key challenge because she bought some motion on Etsy, which was great. And that's why she wins the game.

That's a really, and a lot of its own legacy. So that's a really tough story to tell. If they could just accurately tell that story and trust the fans to be like, interesting, let's analyze that as we are about to do, then they might do that. But I think the show gets scared, as has happened even with the over-the-top edit, that people will be like,

well, why didn't Jonathan win and why, you know, and instead of just like embracing and even enjoying that dialogue, they're angry, they're scared, people will be like, I'm never watching the show again. So they overdo the edit and then it takes away from it. But I don't blame them for that, especially when it is a female winner

because these winners can get discredited enough and people, I guess, like, aren't really primed to have these conversations and enjoy these conversations. So they feel it has to be neater than it has to. Whereas for me, like, the complexity is like almost like the best, part of the show. Like it's a very layered complex

show and that's why we can have these discussions and I think that's like part of the fun. Yeah. I mean, I think it's both things at the same time. I think it's the alliance of three, these guys know they need to go to the end with each other and Aubrey knows I need to go with these two guys. You know, she does not need to sit next to this. Three guys. Yeah, she needs to. Yeah. So it's both of those things happening at the same time, right? So Aubrey is like, yes, I need to get rid of three. Yes, I need to get rid of

Ozzy. Yes, I need to get rid of Tiffany. Yes, I need to basically be sitting next to these three, these two people, these three people. I need to be in a three-on-one situation and win my way to the end. You know, sometimes that's just a situation you're in. I need to win a key challenge or I will lose the game. And that's where she was. And that's kind of what we could have got from Aubrey's edit, but we didn't. We got like almost like, like Aubrey kind of like duck in and dodging her way to the end when it was really just the pecking order, right? She just wasn't next up. Now, she did a really good job of getting low on the pecking order by getting rid of that idol that, you know, was so controversial in the moment.

That was such a good move for her to burn that idol because it did take all the, like, all the target off of her to where she could go back under the radar and like, let these other bigger names go out before her. If we're talking about legacy, there's a reason why Ozzie and Surrey have to go before her, you know, Rick Devons even. He doesn't have the legacy that Ozzy, I mean, Aubrey has, but in this season, he did, you know, the Beware, Beast, whatever. flipping beast.

Are people been calling it Beastware? How could we not? I don't think people are not saying that. People are not saying that. I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it. I'm not going to do it.

I'm not doing it. No. Please, but he don't survive. Okay, I'll try it one time. I'll try one time. The beast swear moment happened. And you're right. I kind of like it.

So yeah, the beast's moment happens too. And so that raises Rick's profile. So she is able to kind of go down the peck me order. But those two stories are not like like completely separate up from each other. Right. Aubrey's story is one thing. Jonathan and Rizzo's and Joe's stories is the other thing. they just really didn't show that story.

They never really show what Jonathan was thinking as far as, like, my combination of who I can beat at the end. Same thing with Joe, if he even was thinking along those lines. And then with Rizzo, we were seeing Rizzo be like, now Tiffany has to go because she's the biggest threat. Now Arbery has to go because she's the biggest threat. But we never heard Rizzo say, what am I going to do with Ozzie and Saree? You know, how am I going to win if I'm with the next, with them to? I think that if it's a less savvy player or a player that we know is like not a super fan, then we're like, oh yeah, that person is getting dragged to the end with those.

two people and they're just going to go to the slaughter. But Rizzo's not that guy. So we have to know that Rizzo had a plan or at least felt like I'm not going to sit by Sari and Ozzy at the end because he knows he would lose. There are some people who are fine losing to Sariya in the final three. It looks like Tiffany would have been one of those

people. It looks like Ozzy would have been one of those people. Lisa would have been one of those people in Australian Survivor versus the world. I would be one of those people in any given day. It's me. It's me. Sign me up. But Rizzo's not that guy and the show never showed that. And so he never has to make that move. He never to contemplate it, but it's because they don't ever give him that, that, that they don't ever

assign that agency to him in the game, even though yeah, anybody who knows him or has watched him play has to know he was probably thinking that and we just don't get it. So about the edit is, it's a little wonky, but I think you're right, it highlights Aubrey in a way that I think Aubrey as a player, as a legacy player, and as a legend of survivor now officially. And Aubrey to me has probably been a legend of survivor, but this I think solidifies it and the show really celebrated her in the way they presented her win. Yeah, well, I think the thing with Rizzo, like, I'm really high in Rizzo and we'll talk about it. It was really crystallizing for me, especially in the finale.

Like, we went to the finale with my deal or no deal board, and Rizzo was by far the highest case. The week before had been terrible for the board, Chappelle. Terrible for the board. Not a good deal or no deal day for me when Devin's and Saree were taken off the board. The Rizzo was highest case for sure. And it was crystallizing for me through the finale. What a solid game I think he played and we'll definitely talk through. it. But the thing is, if they build that up

and they give a lot of the agency to Rizzo, they have to take some from Aubrey. And again, they don't want to do that with the reasons to discuss. Then you look at the fact that they also probably buried Tiffany a lot, and I think Tiffany was a lot of fun in this season. I mean, they buried her a lot early because she was such a fun character. Because, like, look at their boot order. Like, again, this is why I can't really blame them. They're like,

because of the uneven cast, like they have, in a row, Ozzie, then into Devons? No, no, was it? Was it? Ozzie? Yeah, then... Don't be lying. It was, it was, um, it was. I've done too many. It was, what was the order?

It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was Emily and Ozzie. And then the episode in between that was, why can't I remember this? The food order of the, of the season. Listen, we both are professionals and either one of us is coming up with anything. I was, it was, it was Stephanie. I'm right. It was Stephanie. Okay, I know, okay.

Bombay, but I know. The boot order is Emily, Ozzie, Devon, Surrey, Tiffany, right. I thought there were an episode between that? No, it was just that it was Devons in between Ozzy and Surrey. So Ozzie, Devon, Surrey, Tiffany, if she's built up to be kind of the threat that we know she was and the fun character, if she's built up even more, Rizzo as this, like, person who I think actually did have a lot of agency. That's like, and then you're left with people that, you know, people might not be happy with. I think that obviously Jonathan has his fans, Joe has his fans, Aubrey has her fans. So everyone has their fans.

I still do think that people are like, wow, that deal or no deal board is looking really, really painful in a row. Do we just put the boot order on the podcast? Moving on. I have a child. Yeah. So I do think that it's not the edit's fault as much as they're like, what are we going to do about this? Because again, they know that the fans going to be angry at that.

I do think that Rizzo played a really great game. I'd love to talk about it because could Rizzo have won? Because I went into the finale thinking, like, poor Rizzo, like he's always drawing dead just kind of based on who he is. And like part of that must be his fault because I think I saw a thing that he's older than Sam Phelan. Rizzo comes across like he's a minor. Like it's his youthfulness.

It's his bravado. The last thing these people see, the only thing these people know about Rizzo, when they walk onto that beach, is that they saw that one trailer that said, R-V-G-O-D, R-R-G-R-Bab baby. They haven't seen him in 49. They were so anti-49 in general.

And then he comes in, and I think he played like a really strong game. And I don't know that I think he was drawing dead. Do you think there's a chance that Rizzo could have won this game? Absolutely. I think, I will say this. I think I even put it on Blue Sky. I think he was won some motion away from winning the game.

I agree with you. Is that crazy? No, I don't think so. I think because... Is that what just happened? Listen, he did what needed to be done. If you were concerned about Rizzo's game throughout, he's aligned with Sarie and Ozzy,

but he's going to lose to both of them. So either way, he needs to get rid of them. And he did. He was able to get rid of those two people and align himself with two people with much lower win equity. Now, the question is, you know, can he beat Jonathan? I think it's a game of inches, but it is possible.

You know, I don't think Jonathan is like a front runner in the, between the two of them. I really do think it's like, you know, 49-51 split on there as far as like, who has the most. Because it'll also take him winning some motion and cutting Aubrey or like, or, you know,

or sending somebody into fire to cut Aubrey, that would be such a big exclamation point on his game, right? So assuming he makes it to that point. I think he needs to win some motion. I think he needs to win some motion. I think he needs to win some motion or he doesn't make it because he's not going to win fire

No no no but he doesn't matter Because at the end of the That's the whole point It's like if any of those three guys Win some motion See he the meal ticket is to be with Joe and Jonathan They're two fairly beatable people at the end

They're two fire champions And they're two challenge champions So if I think Jonathan wins some motion It could put Joe in fire Against Aubrey Joe would win And vice versa Joe could win the challenge You put Jonathan into fire

I don't think it needs to be Rizzo It would be a great exclamation point On the game I do agree that I think that might put him over the line. If he doesn't win some motion and just the guys take out Aubrey,

I think that there's a real argument that he would win the game because people just don't like Jonathan and Joe. I think he said that in Exopress, and I think he's pretty self-aware in the exit press because, yeah, I mean, let's look at the votes. So he's never going to get the three loyalty and integrity

people who do vote for Jonathan and Ozzy. Those are four votes. Right. He has four votes gone. So, yeah. So he needs to get the other. He's going to get Surrey. then Surrey Jonathan said with the votes I believe it

I don't believe that I don't think she needed to I don't think she needed to well based on what yes but I don't think she needed to I don't think that's I think he's giving Surrey he's he's giving Surrey a lot of credit so that he doesn't have to take accountability for his poor jury management I think both things can be true I think like he might have lost anyway but like Surrey also is an influential person and like both things yeah very good points but so Rizzo so his vote so Tiffany we see the way that she left the game. She said that she felt personally offended by Jonathan.

And she actually even mentioned she's like, Rizzo voted me up, but I didn't feel that type of way about him. Okay. So it seems like to activity vote. D, I mean, Jonathan sent D out antagonizing her on purpose.

Like it was a good move. So D, D, I think is Rizzo. So Rie, I think he's Rizzo. The way that Aubrey kind of spoke about Rizzo is like that, that kind of underdog the way she was. I think Aubrey could be Rizzo.

And then it comes down to the three people in the nerd alliance, Devin's Christian and Emily, like I don't know which way they would go. but it became such a battle of values at this final tribal council are the nerds going to decide this for Jonathan? Maybe. But like if Rizzo can pitch

some of the story he was even giving at that final four of his back-to-back games, be as disarming as we've seen him be. And pitch, I think some of the game we saw him play. I think it's there for him because this is a good game. Like he's in power in the pre-vurch. He comes in, they did not like the 49 people. He finds power.

He finds a group immediately. Then Surrey is obviously dominating and he's there at Surrey's knee. No one else can say that except the Surrey group. Not Jonathan, not even Aubrey, I think, can speak to the agency that just being with Surrey gave Rizzo. Then he cuts those allies, Ozzie and Surrey, and trades them. And we can talk about those moves, trades them for the three we've heard of Joe and Jonathan

an optimal final three to go to the end that they were in this world actually would have done and they were likely to do. They come into that challenge, say a 75% chance of going with that final three. Can Jonathan speak to the same agency? Jonathan lost allies. Jonathan lost a loyalty and integrity alliance. Jonathan was left out of some votes. He wasn't with Surrey in that way.

I don't think that Jonathan has the agency that I think that Rizzo did through that end stretch and through kind of the whole game. So I'd vote for it. I love that bitch. Yeah, look, I would vote for it too, but I do think that there is an argument to be made either way, right? You could say Jonathan did the same thing that Rizzo did.

I realized that I could not be anybody else, and so I needed to sit next to Rizzo and Joe. And then I took out. But he didn't have to cut the out. like Rizzo's making that decision to cut allies. Yeah, but you know. But we saw Jonathan get the credit for like the Ozzy vote, right? And so.

That's highly debated we'll talk about. Right. Hey, I'm with you on that one too. But you know, with Jonathan being able to say, no, I was the one who let Ozzie, you know, who got Ozzy out or who really wanted Ozzie out. I really took ownership over the D vote. Like what one vote can Rizzo take ownership over? Not really any of them.

I actually think Aussie. And that's the thing. Jonathan will always say I was the one who. who pitched Ozzie. Rizzo can say, but I let Ozzie go, but that's not the same as I was driving the boat on this one, you know, or driving the vote on this one for that matter. And so I think there is, again, the argument is what I'm saying is there. I would have voted for Rizzo in this moment,

but I do think that if you look at the same people that we just outlined, yeah, I think it's coming down to the nerds. And I think specifically it's coming down to Emily flipping. I think somewhere in the exit press, Rizzo was saying that he talked to Emily and Devin's and was just kind of like, so, you know, like halfway through the guy, game. They were like, we don't see what you're doing. We don't see your game, you know. And so that's why I said, I think the motion is one of those like, you now see my game type

moments. Maybe even saving Ozzy with that idol, you know, with the player idol, Ozzie could have been a more visible move that he could claim. I know he says that he doesn't want to be looked at as like Ozzy sheep and like, oh, you were just saving Ozzie when Ozzy should have gone. Listen, that's a fine argument to make about you being Ozzy sheep unless you didn't go get Ozzie out before the final three. You know, as long as Ozzie's not there, then, you know, nobody cares that you were his sheep one time. You got him out when you needed to get him out. So I could argue that, you know,

he's probably not giving himself enough credit, but I think that you could give credit to Jonathan as well. I think Devons, if he's being honest with Rizzo when he says, I'm not really seeing your game, does that change between now and the final tribal council? Or does he give it to Jonathan, you know? So I think it's close. I won't say that, I don't say that Rizzo could not win,

but I definitely could see a world where he could. And same thing with Jonathan. I think Jonathan, I don't think it was the best game ever. But I definitely think that with the combination that he was aiming for, that was almost maximizing his chances. I do think there's probably a better combination that it would be good for Jonathan in the final three. I know, I know they were really afraid of Tiffany. Oh, really? Yeah, I know they were really afraid of Tiffany. But I do think that if you were able to get her out, I'm sorry, if you were able to kind of like neutralize her and just take her to the end,

like not as like somebody we're targeting and she keeps winning. But if she is just a number, you know, and you were the one driving these votes. And I think you can look at her and be like, what has she even done? But they got to the point where she was like back against the wall. She's winning these challenges. You know, that kind of stuff adds to the mystique. I also think maybe even Emily Flipman could have been a good person at the end for him. Because, you know, who was going to like ride or die and really fight for Emily in the jury? Maybe Christian? Devons and Christian. I mean, I think any of these, like, because we came such a battle of values, we've seen the fact that like the jurors are fighting with each other. And I do.

think that Jonathan's, there weren't enough loyalty, integrity people on the jury. So his best bet of being against the quote-unquote strategist is probably Rizzo, because as Rizzo said, he's not really hugely respected. And like he said the same as you did that it would maybe be like a, ironically, a beastware style coin toss between him and Jonathan in that way. I think Rizzo, if he's going with any strategist, is his best bet. However, I do think, you know what, Jonathan should in a perfect world, Jonathan's best bet is being there with another loyalty and integrity person. But he didn't have the agency in that way. Like, he lost allies. If he's there was, a Chrissy and Joe.

I know we're going back now very far, but if he's there with the Stephanie and Joe, like, they have to vote for somebody. Exactly, but him being left out of those votes or not having his will done in those votes matters because I do think that the best, if it could not be a battle of values.

And now these poor nerds are staring at three loyal, loyalty and integrity people and they have to choose between them. Like maybe then he's the strategist of the loyalty and integrity people. And maybe then that's that story. But again, like, that's why it matters that he was left out of these votes. Rizzo's will was done through all of this. Surrey and then through flipping on

Surrey and Ozzy. So that's why I'm kind of high on that game. I think with Rizzo like to defend some of these decisions going back like turning on Ozzy and Surrey and like look, people have a lot of feelings. Rizzo is so polarizing. Like it's I've never seen anything like it. You don't have to defend it from me. I'm with you on this.

We're in agreement. But like you've tweeted being like, isn't it kind of crazy that like Rizzo has been in two seasons and he's never walked into tribal council like without an immunity idol? Like he'll have gone to the end of two seasons in a row, never without an idol in his pocket. Like, I just think this kind of crazy. I was just being like, it was never voted out a survivor. But the way that people took it was like, yeah, he's, yeah, he's such a goat or he's the goat. There was no in between. It was, I'm like,

I'm not even making a qualitative statement. Like, and they, like, they read it either way. It's like, the way, what's that called, like a, where you have like the blob and you have to see how you see it? You know, the psychological test. Oh, like, yeah, the Roershack test. Is that what it's called? Yeah. I think you pronounce it. I don't know if you're, you're right, but it genuinely is like that because that's what really, you either see a goat or you see the goat. Like, and I wasn't even saying anything and they, and like, Damon was taking every type of way.

I don't even know how I felt about Rizzo's game at that time and I've had to spend some time thinking about it because people had so many feelings about it. And I do think these endgame decisions like people have feelings because he turned on Ozzie and Surrey. And again, people don't like it and that's why the editor struggled. But I'm here to defend it because he didn't just cut those guidelines. if he traded it for a final three, that was incredibly likely to have happened.

Again, like he goes there with the challenge Bs, the firebees we're going to hopefully be able to take him there. It doesn't pan out their way, but that's a result-oriented thinking. They walk into that final challenge. They have an incredibly high percentage chance of Rizzo being in his optimal final three.

I think that that worked out. Now, then you have to look at how are the threats being taken out to get there. So taking out Ozzy, was it a bit early? I don't think so for the reasons of it's such a limited end game. Tony always says rather early than late, and especially in the season, because God forbid, you're like,

I won't take Ozzy out now. I'll take him out in the future. And then that vote you were going to take him out is again, like the Neil Patrick Harris. Like we don't vote. We all just kind of like play musical chairs round. You know, like we don't. So I think especially in the season,

you kind of have to take your shots when you have them. And then Surrey, I know, was like the big one because he could have forced a tie. He could have played the idol on himself, which was the only thing that the Billy Ritch idols could be used for. He could have voted against Aubrey. Tiffany was immune.

Surrey would be immune in the tie. Aubrey would be forced out. that he alone could have changed that vote by having an idol and creating that tie. So I think that's been the argument is should he have done that to have kept Surrey over Aubrey who's even less likely to win a challenge at the final four than Aubrey eventually does. I still kind of think this is a result-oriented thinking, though. Like, is the disparity in challenges and fire between Aubrey and Surrey so great that

you have to piss off your final three and Joe and Jonathan? Like, they might be cornered into working with you. But I still feel like he was riding with those guys. Like he had a final three. He wasn't going to piss off Joe who can be emotional, who's obviously like very loyalty driven. And I don't, I don't begrudge him for just taking that path to just get to the end

and hopefully being the strategist or the least hated against Jonathan and Joe. Like I think that that does work and you don't have to necessarily be like pulling out all this flash and like cinema for that. So I'm not harsh on him making that decision. Like he didn't just cut Ozzie and Surrey. He got a new final three. He was already so close with Joe apparently. And it was a great final three for him.

a different world where Aubrey drops that ball, he very well could be the winner of the season. So I don't think you can look at like mistakes that he's made when it really does come down to possibly a ball drop with Aubrey. Like that's quite results oriented for me. Yeah. I mean, even the Surrey vote out. Like you're not voting out Surrey there and leaves Surrey in the game with Tiffany at that

point. And Tiffany is willing to take Surrey to the final three. Yeah. And Tiffany's willing to take Surrey to the final three. So if Rizzo was like, I can't go to the final three with Ceri. And Tiffany's like, yes, we can. That's not good for Rizzo. You know, he needs her out.

majority but again like sari you never know what sari could do somehow you never know what sari can do you know then you've pissed off joe you've left sari in the game who knows how she gets into people's heads i've seen her pull off true magic in the season alone so who knows yeah and it's what you can do well that and if jonathan is okay if jonathan is correct and serri is at the jury whipping votes you don't want her you know against you in the jury house at ponderosa saying hey uh result sucks he betrayed all of us and we shouldn't reward that kind of behavior, you know? And so I don't quibble with anything he did, honestly, because he leaves the Wizard of Oz, Serizade of Oz Alliance,

which is like this floating alliance that has all the influences bouncing from side to side and controlling whoever goes home and creates a new one with Joe and Jonathan. And then that one does the exact same thing. It gets Surrey. It goes and gets Tiffany. Then it goes and gets Arbor. Like that's what the goal is, and he's accomplishing it.

The one mistake is that you have, you cannot be. at the end with anybody else. It's not, it doesn't have like a huge margin of error for, for that kind of win. But that's the position he's in as a person who nobody has ever seen play before. They don't know him and they don't have a level of irreverence for him like they do

some of the other people. I saw, I think Jonathan was talking about his ex-press like, you know, how was I supposed to know that they were going to look at Aubrey with so much respect and like bring in her other games when it came, when it came to voting? I was like, why wouldn't they? Just because you have never seen Survivor, does it mean that the rest of them have not?

You know, no, seriously, because I think they were even talking, I think Rob was talking to Jonathan and he mentioned, I think, Co wrong and Jonathan was like, I got to watch that. I think I got to watch that. No kidding. Yes. Yeah. You have to.

You can stop comparing your losing game to Aubrey's losing game because those things are not the same thing. Right. That and so you know what you're up against. You know, if you, like, you have to know, I could probably sit next to coach at the end because he's not going to own his game. But you don't know that if you've never seen coach play Survivor before. You have to know,

I can sit next to Joe at the end, not because Joe is like this lovable person that's going to get a bunch of votes, but because Joe, about halfway through is going to be like, I don't know what I'm doing. Just tell me where to go. And, you know, and honestly, you know your opponents because you've done the research. 50 seasons and you get to the end being like, I was I supposed to know they were going to vote for Aubrey. Why wouldn't they? Aubrey has played with a number of these people before, right? So she knows Rick Devin's.

And even if she was never on the same tribe as these people or anything like that, you know, just through. the community that's built from playing Survivor. She is played with Ozzie. She is played with Joe. She is played with Ceree. You would have reasonably, it would be, you know, like is it reasonable to, like, assume that maybe she has, they have some type of warm feelings for her outside of, I don't know, she played a good game, but I think Jonathan played a good game.

If I have to split hairs here, who I'm going to give it to? The unknown person that I don't really know or the person that I know and respect and have watched and as a fan of to an extent. I think it's such a misstep to get to this part of the game and be like, how was I supposed to know that they were going to care

about the legacy of Arbery? It's almost like saying, how was I supposed to know that the people were just going to vote for Surrey automatically? None of us have ever questioned if Surrey got to the end would she win the game?

Surrey could have done nothing. If she gets to the end, she wins the game. She could have done nothing. I'm talking about no challenges, no moves, nothing. Just tell me where to vote. I'll be there, I'll be fine,

and get dragged all the way there. and we still would be like, I don't know if they could be serri, you know, but you don't know that if you haven't done your research. And I think that Jonathan was just in over his head. And I don't feel bad for him for that matter. I feel bad for him for other matters because I do understand how hard it must be to just like misunderstand the game that you're playing and feel like I gave it my all. I voted out the people.

I did what I came to do. Why didn't I get the money? You know, why didn't I win? Why don't y'all celebrate that? I feel bad for that. I don't feel bad for him misunderstanding his opponents. That is easily, like, it's easily studyable, right? Like, you can just go research that right now and find out who all these people are

and you'll know exactly who the threats are and who you should be aligning way or who you shouldn't be. Well, this is giving me a thought and I'm going to try and vocalize now the thought that I'm having, which is everyone comes into a survivor season and we're not all just like blobs. No. It's going to be better than this. But everyone comes in with the baggage of perception of who they are. And in a newbie season that usually helps someone like Jonathan and a final tribal council, people innately will go to that strong brash guy over someone like an Aubrey.

We've actually seen that happen before with Aubrey losing not to a strong brash guy. But I think that that perception worked into her the type of woman that Scott and Jason wanted to vote for, let alone being outplayed by Aubrey. That perception wasn't good for Aubrey. And the one time that that doesn't happen in the same exact way is in returning seasons where it happens in a different way. And I think the people complaining being like, well, why would Orroup beat Jonathan just for being perceived as a bigger threat? Are the people who would understand it when Jonathan would beat Aubrey side unseen as a newbie for how they're viewed? And perception is very intricate in survivor because that perception might be why you go at the merge or why you go early.

And that's why it's hopefully a layered game because a strong person like Jonathan early might be in trouble to merge. But then they might come back around in this in this kind of like circular way where at the end, then they might get more credit. But the credit that we often see through these like preconceived biases that we have often goes to the Jonathan's. Or someone like a Cochran over dawn. Like we might assume that person is doing more. And none of the same people who are complaining that Aubrey has that perception of legacy over Jonathan would complain in those ways because it's never, we never see that in that way. Do you know what I mean? Like we always see, I think, one type of person getting that credit.

Not like, for the most part, we all come in with these preconceived biases are the kind of people we think are least. leaders who are strong, who are, and I do think a lot of the time, someone like Jonathan might really benefit from that. But the one time that that is different is when it's a returning season, because then it's not based on your age, your gender. We're talking about those with Rizzo, right? The fact that he comes across is really youthful and stuff is hard for him in different ways. So the one time that that might be mitigated a little bit in a returning season is when it comes down to legacy then being factored into all those other demographic aspects, where someone like Aubrey is above someone like Jonathan, which again in a newbie season probably isn't

going to happen that way. So yes, you talk about this. is at war. If Boston Rob got to the end with anyone, he's probably going to win. And to be fair to Boston Rob, it's hard of him to get to the end because he is that bigger threat. So he need to get credit for that if it were to happen. Someone like a Tony, someone like a Sandra, why Denise had to do that move against Sandra? Because she had to be a queen slayer because she didn't come in with the stature of some of these other winning legends. So the fact that Aubrey is that bigger threat is meaningful. Is it based on what happened in this game? No. But she's also not just Aubrey playing in this game. They didn't have their

memories wiped to come into this game and play against just this version of each other. It made Aubrey a bigger threat. It made it hard of her to get to the end and she won that challenge. So the interesting thing about the discussion around should Jonathan beat Aubrey is, let's put it this way. If Rizzo wins fire and he sits next to Aubrey, I think that Aubrey should beat him. Aubrey is the bigger threat. He wants to get out Aubrey. They all would have failed in that. She won that challenge. Aubrey should win. However, if Aubrey loses emotion and Rizzo goes to the end and wins, I would rank him as a higher winner than Aubrey. I think Rizzo played a better game than Aubrey, but I still think Aubrey should beat Rizzo.

I think that if you have someone is like, they're this big threat, they're this huge hurdle, someone like Rachel against Sam. You want to get them out. And if you don't, they were upset that she won. Like then you failed in your task. Someone like Jonathan, if he were to win fire, which he did and Aubrey beat, like would, should Aubrey beat him? I think yes. If Aubrey, again, lose its emotion and Jonathan goes and beats Rizzo,

would I rank him as a higher winner than Aubrey? Maybe he was left out of some of those votes. There were some of those bad social game aspects. But like, maybe I would. Maybe I think that the agency of the end game should be attributed to these guys over Aubrey. But I still think Aubrey should beat him. The task at hand was, we are lower ranked people in this game. That is the perception of us with this returning season.

It is easier for us to get to the end because people want to sit with us, but it means we'll have a harder time at the end if we can't execute and they couldn't, they didn't and Aubrey will win. Did any of that make sense? Because again, I forgot the good order earlier and I have a new one. It does make sense.

I could quibble with a couple things, but for the most part, I agree. I think the one thing that really stands out to me is that, you know, like the goal is to get out Arbery. You failed to getting out Arbery, thus you're going to be punished for that, right? In the past, we've seen people

try to get somebody out, not get them out, and still beat them. because it comes down to the social game as well. And I think that the one thing we're not talking about. Sandra's a good example. Sandra's a really good example. But it is few and far between, to be fair. I do think it's still important.

And I think that's the other part that Jonathan is missing when he's evaluating his game is that, okay, if you have to sit next to this person, why would these people vote for you over that person? Jonathan, there is no world where he could sit in front of me and explain to me why he would think he would get six votes over Aubrey. It just doesn't make sense. The people aren't there. You know, they're just, whoever these allies are.

And that's given that he's going to get three. He's always going to get at least three. He might get four with Ozzy. But even then, he's not getting the rest of these votes, especially when we hear about some of the anti-social things that he does leading up to this. Tiffany talking about in her exit press, how when she pressed him about, why me,

why am I the one you're voting out? Why not some of somebody else? Why not Joe? And he says, basically, you're a woman and you know we think we need to go to the end with all guys because the women are all going to vote for you by saying that you are alienating Tiffany because she doesn't want to hear because I am a woman you won't you are refusing to go to the end with me and then also alienate the other women because you now made it about gender there's that's their whole reason why you know or at least even if that's not the whole reason that's not something that people are going to easily forget and so that's just an

anti-social thing that will turn people away from you it's not going to win allies and friends and respect from people. You know, the answer there is always, you're a bigger threat, you're going to beat everybody here. We don't stand a chance against you. I respect you so much. That's always the answer. Rizzo did that, yeah.

That's exactly what Rizzo did. Jonathan didn't do that. And so, like, if you look at Russell Hans versus Sandra, Russell is pissing everybody else. He looked, everybody acts like, I'm about to get on a soapbox about Heroes of Villas, but you know how I feel about that season. People act as though Russell has played this amazing game,

got to the end and people just didn't like them and they gave Sandra the vote because of that. But you have to remember why people didn't like him. It wasn't because he was blindsiding him. He looked Rupert in the face and said, Rupert, you are such a dumb ass. He said that to him. Christ, I think, is what he called him.

Right. But he said it to him. Say it in the confessional. You say it in the conventional. You are such a dumb ass. It's not something you say to somebody who you want to win votes from. So that's the big thing here. If you're not able to get out this person, neutralize that person.

They shouldn't be that. big of a threat. We've talked about these people before who have these advantages, who keep winning challenges, but by the time, by the time we get to the end, it doesn't matter that they want so many challenges. Like Sarah Lassina sits next to Brad Culpepper. He won five, what, five challenges, I think, or four.

But when it came time to vote, people were like, I like Sarah. You know, I worked with Sarah. I was impressed by Sarah. I respect Sarah. And even though Brad seemingly well liked, he wasn't able to, he wasn't able to earn that respect over Sarah who he was sitting right next to. And I think we see that time and time

again, honestly. So yeah, you got to get Aubrey out. But if you don't, you at least have to create the bonds to where when people are, I'm saying, they're like, yeah, but we don't like her. You know, I think that, let's say you switch out, Emily flipping for Genevieve. You probably get Genevieve vote. She doesn't seem to like Aubrey, you know, but you got to play against the people that you're playing against and the jury has to go in your direction. Early on, I was like, I don't know who Jonathan is going to get because we don't see them interacting in like any interpersonal ways with anybody else. We see him obviously trying to move the votes and some of the things he's doing,

which is a part of the game. At the end of the day, these people have to vote for who they want to win the money. And it would be crazy for them to want Jonathan, who they barely know, to win the money over Aubrey, this person with a 10-year legacy of Survivor that they've watched and that they've played alongside.

Yeah, I think that Jonathan's asking ex-impressed, like, why did this happen? And, like, I can't imagine how difficult it is to lose in the final vote for Joe doing it, you know, in almost, you know, immediate succession. Very, very tough. I think psychologically to be a losing finalist, but I think kind of I've had to look at the four reasons. Like, so hard for you.

Here's why. One, perception is reality. Perception is life. Like acting like, well, how come, you know, because of Aubrey's legacy, that's who Aubrey is and that's how she's also played the whole game. It made her a medium-level threat who peaked at exactly the right time. And it's meaningful. It makes it a little bit harder of her to get to the end than you.

And then when she capitalizes it, it's more impressive than you getting to the end. She plays a game wearing that. We are all the combination. of who we present ourselves to be and it's meaningful. And I think that that's a big thing being kind of missed in some of the discourse of like, well, why is it just on Aubrey's legacy, is who she is, all of their legacies are who they are.

That's how they're playing the game as that, again, total package, should I say in that terminology. That's the first thing is perception. The second thing is I do think he tried to be strategic and he was strategic. There was strategic missteps. He loses his allies. I think it's a better game for him if he can go fully with his alliance to the end. As someone like Rizzo, you know,

Rizzler's actual optimal endgame was there. Could he win on that end game? I don't know. But I do think that Rizzo actually had his optimal final three. And I don't know that this is Jonathan's optimal final three. I think loyalty and integrity and then this three. Then I would say the social game missteps that we see, like taking Christian shot in the dark for no reason we've spoken to some of those other things, thinking is a good move to send the mayor of Ponderosa out on a fight.

Angry. Yeah. These are the issue. And then the fourth one would be losing some motion to at least get him to that second optimal final three and possibly taking it out from there. Those to me, and sometimes you just don't went on the day, and I think, you know, Robb can speak to that. And he spoke to that in his conversation with Rizzo as well,

that Aubrey, you know, he failed to get out Aubrey. So those are kind of the four things I look at from Jonathan's game of why that happened. Is that fair? Yeah. I mean, the legacy thing is such a big deal because all of them are going to tell their story at the end of this. And none of their story is going to be,

I came on Survivor 50 and I started to play the game. they're all going to go back to their first game, including Jonathan. His legacy would also be taken into consideration. So it's kind of wild to me that he would be like, oh, how would I know that they were going to talk about the legacy and like what she did before this? Jonathan, if you get to the end, your story should be the first time I played. I was just the muscle and I didn't really understand a strategy and I was outmaneuvered

and I didn't really, you know, and I didn't make a lot of social bonds. But this time I made it to the end and I was in control of strategy and I did know these things. Like that is the story. Christian is going to harp on the story. That's his whole thing. He's been talking about the narrative and the story. They're all going to do it because they all have the battle scars from the last time they play in those traumas.

And so you should want to do that. This is a building on your story. And so, yeah, if Aubrey gets to the end, Shannon, we could have, at the beginning of the game, at the beginning, episode one, we could have ranked these people by a threat level, not based on skill, but just off of legacy. Right. We could have just looked at it. I mean, we basically do, right? We basically, when we go in and draft people, we say exactly why we think they're going to win.

And it's not, hey, this person is good. A lot of times it's who this person is. If Christian makes it to the end, it's going to be really hard to beat Christian. Don't care how he got there. It's going to be really hard to beat them. Same thing with Rick Devons. Same thing with Surrey.

Same thing with Ozzy. And Ozzy is not known for stellar gameplay. And even then, it would still be hard to beat Ozzie, you know, because of who Ozzie is inherently. There are people who is going to be extremely. extremely easy to beat just because of their legacy. Like coach, you're going to get there. You're like, it's coach, y'all. We got it.

Like, no one's going to take them serious. If Kobe gets to the end, he's going to have to do some things to change the opinions of the way people perceive Kobe. That's just who he is. And so, yeah, I just think it was a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he was playing this time. And for that, I feel bad for Jonathan. But other than that, no, I thought that, you know, he put up a good fight.

And I do think that, you know, it's a valiant effort for somebody who doesn't have as many days as Aubrey playing, who doesn't have. years of experience, studying the game, watching all the seasons and stuff like that. It was a good fight. It just wasn't enough. Yeah, I do wonder if, like, Stephanie and Chrissy were putting people off.

Like, because it was this, like, real battle of values, which, again, you know, he doesn't have that. Like, it really became, like, and I think we've seen that theme through the whole season, like, the beach versus the shelter people. And it was, like, that way, again, in this final tribal council. So I do think it was tough.

I mean, to look at Aubrey's game from here, again, she probably was, like, perfectly positioned from a threat perspective because, you know, I guess you don't want to be the biggest threat. I mean, Sarri's that's so amazing coming in as she did. That's why it's so impressive. Because, again, she's also the combination of everything she is when she steps

onto that beach and she's Surrey and that she could have so much control and survive as long as she did when she should have been out first because she's three fields. Makes it even more impressive. Like that's why we will rank Surrey's games. And, you know, she doesn't have that in Micronesia the way that she does now. And that's why that's so impressive. But Aubrey kind of is that that middle tier threat in a way that probably was pretty good for her coming in. you know, I don't think this is a great, you know, individual win for Aubrey.

I think that we can say that. I think that the edits, not the edits fault. Like, they gave us as much as they could. They give us more than they, than she had, I think. You know, I don't think that a lot of that endgame agency should be attributed to her. I think a lot of the things being given to her, like the Aussie vote is an example. Ozzie gives her his entire game for reasons. I still question to this day, Chappelle, what happened?

I don't know what I was going to get him. He was still on his loaners permit. He was still on his loaners permit, but he was on another beach. And then he gave her his whole game. and yes, Aubrey did run it back, but could anyone have done that? Could Roarie and my child have done that? I don't know. I mean, really?

You don't think that we can take the information given to us by someone who's handed you their game for reasons. Again, I don't know. And then use it to save yourself when, like, Ozzy, that was Ozzie's move. Wasn't a good move. But that to me, that like Ozzy, you know who voted out Ozzy? Ozzy, of everyone that's been fighting over it, Ozzie should get the credit for that. Yeah, but I don't want to take anything from Aubrey because I think less capable players can't do these things.

I don't, we don't, first of all, we don't really know, right? But I do think like here, or even, let's take, you remember, I think it's David versus Goliath. Is it Angelina pulling Elizabeth to the side and being like, hey, you know, just so you know, you're about to go to the jury and then Elizabeth, like, blows it up. Like, Angelina is trying to send me to the jury about Elizabeth still goes. Elizabeth still goes. You know what I'm saying?

Like she wasn't able to use that and capitalize on it in a way that benefits her. I pulled that out my ass, so good for me, right? because that was cool. That was quick. But yeah, I think you have to give credit for what we do see Aubrey do, and she did capitalize on that. Now, could anybody have done it? Maybe not anybody, but we definitely know Aubrey could. We've seen it now. We know that's in her skill set. That's in our wheelhouse. She used it. Ozzie definitely made a mistake. He definitely made a mistake. It was bad. But it is on Aubrey to then capitalize on that mistake. We've seen Rachel Lamont capitalized on those mistakes before.

And we gave her a lot of credit for it, and she deserved it. I think we should give Aubrey the credit as well. It's just there was a lot going on in that episode for that one vote and that vote obviously became like kind of the vote everyone won was fighting over at final tribal council like Aubrey takes the information. Ozzie makes the mistake. Rizzo, I think, makes a good move to cut his ally. And to me, that's quite a lot of agency to not save Ozzy in that spot. Jonathan is one who wins the challenge. She was whipping the votes and is like the most active person and that he can actually do that. He won the power to do that.

It was a lot of power, but he won it. They can all speak to that in different ways. I was thinking about my chizzy points for that episode. And I don't know if Aubrey would have got a look in just because it was competitive. Like if I agree with Rizzo's move, if Jonathan has a lot of active gameplay there, now knowing that they made a final four with Aubrey, but a final three without her, I don't know that that's necessarily Aubrey's move. Like then, yes, she saves herself, but in terms of setting it up, like she's again putting herself in a position where she's going to have to win a do-or-die challenge. Those three guys are setting themselves up to 75% chance to probably be in the final three side unseen on those challenge odds. And then three chis-y points, obviously to our chis-y winner, sorry.

I think this is why it gets me because it's like, wow, Aubrey really use that information and I hear you, she did that. And I do think most players could, but on the other side of the beach, Sarifie spoke to Rizzo. She spoke to Rizzo on a different beach through two different people,

through her opponents. She voted out Stephanie, their ally, I think the night before was it? See, I don't want to get confused with it, but she voted out their ally, then used them to communicate, it was. Actually, I know that it was. I thought was Emily the night before,

or was that Emily and Stephanie? Yeah, no, it was Emily. Oh, Emily was the same night. Yeah, you're right. Stephanie was the night before. You go out there, ally. She used Jonathan and Joe to speak to Rizzo, and it went missing because Rizzo chose for other reasons for his own agency.

Again, for I think it was a fine move because Ozzie had done a lot. Surrey could possibly have known or predicted. I think it got lost because he didn't tell Ozzie for his own reasons, but she still got the message to him. So then when I hear like, well, Aubrey gave the information, I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah. I think most people could do that, but no one could do what Sari did that night. My God, he spoke to Rizzo on another beach.

one of the coolest things we ever seen. She did. She did. But to be fair, she's talking to a brick wall. She's talking to a brick wall through a brick wall. She's talking to Jonathan and Joe, who are aligned with Rizzo in wanting to get Ozzy out. You know, she is talking to an alliance of four being like, okay, maybe Rizzo will save it. They're not, they can't hear her because they don't want to hear her. It wasn't there. Rizzo made a selfish dissent. She is already, they've already decided they want Ozzie out. They want Ceres' blessing, but they're going to do it without her. they did but they didn't do it without her they didn't need riso and it gave rizzo a real active choice to choose an alliance member that they didn't really seem to know how close this alliance was or that even was an alliance like they gave rizzo the choice and that put their plan in jeopardy when they

didn't need him for the number now some of that credit can go to rizzo for again the fact that the three of them were making this final three they didn't want to leave each other out this is going to be like the three that decide the end game i totally get that but then a lot of that other credit has to go with them going to serri really like the way she does it she's like I think if that's what you need to get it across the line, like tell Joe to tell Rizzo, like the death touch that she has in that, the control that she has and that and how well they've hidden these bonds that they wouldn't even know that they're giving, they don't know that they're giving Rizzo that decision in that moment.

He doesn't make it. And he has reasons in their alliance not to make it, but they don't know the other side of the beastware coin, the other side of the choice for that because there is this alliance. So it's also impressive. I mean, like, she, it's impressive. It's impressive. That's the queen. That's the queen.

That's mom. But I, but I will, but I will, but I will, but I will. Not everyone could be sorry. Yeah, but I will push back again because, yes, Rizzo has this power in this other alliance. But again, Sari is talking to Rizzo as if he is a part of her alliance. He has already flipped. This trying to get these messages through the Rizzo and Joe is a futile effort.

They are not working with her anymore. This final four is already decided. We're about to take out Ozzie and then Sari and then Tiffany. That's why I do wonder if it's the next vote that we should question Sari on and I, my throat is closing up even saying it. But it was when, you see me. Yeah, no, just end the podcast.

It's in the podcast. Yeah, what are we doing? It was when Devin's went and I don't think she has the power, but it becomes like Tiffany's trying to go for Rizzo. And Aubrey, ironically, is that swing vote. Does she want to become the bottom threat of like the four threats with Tiffany, Devin, Sari, and herself? Or does she want to be the top threat who has to win that final challenge with the guys

and they have this four? Or does she want to try and swing back and forth to try, like to at least take out, you know, like a Rizzo here and then go to end with Joe and Jonathan, but at least be in the three with them where they would have to go with her because they would have lost that like third pivotal vote

and she would have then suck into the three. Maybe Aubrey does that. Maybe there's something more interesting there, but I don't think the choice was given to her because maybe Surrey should have looked at Devons and trying to go to the end with the threats. I mean, I think Surrey beats anyone. The jury kind of had the thing of like,

who played the best game with EW and the loyalty and integrity alliance all said Devons and like everyone else said Surrey. And I was like, this is really such an interesting dichotomy that we're about to witness on the finale, I do think Sarie would have that strategy vote and she would have beat everyone. So I think possibly,

if I'm going to question Surrey anywhere, it's not that the alliance came against her at eight. I guess what it is, is that that alliance was formed at eight. She didn't really know that three was happening. I think Rizzo was actually, ironically, tiny bit of a blind spot for the queen, tiny, tiny bit of a blind spot.

And if she can try and sacrifice Rizzo there, bring in Aubrey with their pregame connection and maybe even just at least show Aubrey that, you know, those three guys are going to go to the end together. That's going to make things tricky for all of us. We're all going to pick up one by one, or we're going to have to win challenges.

Like, you might be in trouble at five or a four. Then maybe Aubrey makes that decision and then starts coming for the threat so she can be in the three. And honestly, she probably should do that at that final seven. And all the threats, I think, should be sticking together at that final seven, rather than allowing those three guys to become three of the final six. So that's probably where I question it. And maybe the fact that she didn't know that that alligned to come up against her at that eight, making seven trickier for her

and not necessarily having that agency for the first time ever in this game. I mean, it's always going to be tricky for her though. You know what I'm saying? We can say like, oh, well, maybe Sarie can work some magic but that's also assuming Sarie can work magic every single time, all the time. And these people have to be blindly loyal to Sarie

regardless of her legacy, right? Like, you know, like I said, some people will be like, hey, I take Sarie to the end if I lose the Surrey, honestly, that's just better for my legacy. Next time I play, like, hey, I went to the end with Surrey. I'm super loyal. and also I'm a part of the field family.

I'll take it. But there's no world where Aubrey, Jonathan, Joe, Rizzo, Tiffany, Rick Devons are all going to sit around and be like, okay, so I'll just get to read to the final three and see what happens. Like, no, they were never going to let her get that far.

Some people will say, oh, well, you know, she was always going to get cut at that final four or the firemaking challenge or whatever. So she was going to run out of runway at some point. I don't quibble too much with the position she was in or the decisions she was making. Because once, you know, you go and split the tribe in half

and put Ozzy over there, give Jonathan all this runway to move back and forward. There's not a lot she can do anyway. You know, she's got to try to work her magic on each person individually. She did good work on Tiffany.

She's always done good work with Aubrey, but Aubrey is not, she's not us, you know. She's like, I need to win this money. And I also think the $2 million will take a little bit away from Cerre's Mist, you know? Yeah, it's like a million.

I'd let Surrey win. But for two million? You're not going to win an AUV world. I don't even know if Lisa would for the two million American. For two million? I don't know about that. Yeah.

That's just like, Ah, Sarit, I'll give you a little, I'll break out for a little something later on, Mama, but I don't know about two will. So yeah,

maybe had Rick Devin's flip that coin and going out of the game and everything was a million dollars. We were like, all right, maybe Surrey. Lose to Surrey. Yeah, it's like, yeah, for a million,

but for two million. That's what I feel like, there was so many, like the fact that Joe was so annoyed that Rick had flipped the coin correctly. It's like, yeah,

we added a million dollars to the pot, but like at what cost that Rick is still here. Right. And Joe's like, and I'm not going to win it. You know, like, let's be clear. If Joe knows that. I think, oh, I think Joe knows. I am, first of all, can I just say, I am,

if I will be the biggest Joe's fan for the, for the, for ever. I love him. I didn't, I didn't love him at the beginning of 48. By the end of 48, I was like, I kind of like Joe a lot. And now this season, I'm like, I'm all in, because Joe has now identified that, hey, just, I, I play survivor twice. It's not my thing. It's not my, it's, I'm not, I'm not great at it.

or whatever. I'm a fun guy to be around. I'm a good guy. I'm very nice. I'm kind. I don't quite understand the game yet, despite playing it twice. But I'm never going to be rude to anybody on purpose. You know, I lose my temper every now and then. But you know, for the most part, it seems like a stand-up guy. He helped Rizzo with that fire. Didn't have to. Just wanted to. Like, whatever. Because again, he knows he's not about to win in that final three. But he was very happy to be there. It didn't seem like he took it very hard that he wasn't getting any votes. He seemed like he very much is embracing it. Aside from blocking every single person

on the internet, Joe seems like he's taking things in stride because I think there's an alternate universe where Joe is like Joe Del Campo, right? He's just getting dragged to the end and nobody thinks he can win the game. He's just another person or even, you know, even different, like on the difference, it's like Butch

or Roger where he's a guy who's just big and in charge, but eventually people are like, okay, but you can't win. Like Joe is somebody who got a lot of screen time. He got so much time on Survivor and he was so ill-equipped to play the game. He was not prepared at all. I remember watching his exit press and he's like, so to prepare for the game, I mean, his preseason press for 48, he's like, so to prepare for the game, I was watching the tribal council only. Yeah, I just watched all the tribal councils. Yeah, he watched all the challenges and

tribal councils. He watched, yeah, he watched all the challenges and all the tribal councils because, because you could pick up so much at, at tribal council. And I'm thinking, what are you talking about that is I watch the tribal councils a lot of the time because you you really can't pick up anything it's an edited it's an edited show heavily and tribal council is what an hour or two of time

that they have now whittled down to 16 minutes and they're putting people's reactions in spot that you're not getting it and Joe said I watched all of those to prepare the place and the challenge just and then he everything but the camp stuff and he went to the end twice it's so impressive it's such an anomaly

but it's so cool and so yeah I If Joe has no haters, well, Joe has no fans, I am dead because I am, I am his biggest fan. I will say that. I also really enjoy Joe. I feel like the way that people react to Joe, like if you're not having fun with it, this is why Jeff thinks that they can't be villains. I'm not saying that Joe is a villain, but like even with like the Joe and Devon stuff, like there were some nice moments where Devons is like, you know, crying because he's on

his last legs in the game and Joe is comforting him. But like if you can't take this dynamic, this is why Jeff doesn't want villains. because at the end of the day, it's just like kind of fun and interesting. Like, it's not super toxic. Like, it's just good TV. Kind of like how I felt about Tiffany the season. Like, I really enjoy Tiffany because she brings a lot of like the Survivor 46 old school vives. Viver 46 being like the old school newer season where she comes back from being blindsided every episode and it's like, F you.

Sometimes we need people to say F you. Like sometimes that's just fun. Like that's like good TV. I thought that her reactions of stuff were really fun the season. I also really liked randomly. where I think someone bit on a vegetable plate at the auction, she was like, I don't want carrots. And I was like,

this is the kind of thing. Yes, like that anti-carrot, anti-vegetable sentiment, I really agreed with as well. But like if you can't take people, being a little emotional, you know,

I think people say that newer is a little game body. I think Joe's not game body. And I think Tiffany is not game body in different ways. And that stuff is just fun without ever getting toxic. And I think that was like an enjoyable part of the season. Ozzie has a bit of that as well, right? like Ozzy very emotional um and like let me let's talk about it because seri did get obviously really screwed by the fact that like by Aussie being who Aussie is and like and they felt

I felt so bad because he like he had a whole week of exopress being like I've thought about this every night since it happened like for five minutes of the next episode serri is like you idiot how and I was like poor Ozzie like he's really struggled with this um and the twist itself so that's why I think when I look at Surrey, it's hard for me to kind of query what she did before the twist, like sacrificing the Stephanies and the Christians for Ozzy because she had Ozzy. Ozzie wanted to take it to the end. Tiffany wanted to take it to the end. Her miss knows no bounds. That was enough. Like that she goes on four to two. That's a three to three. And Ozzie is going to have power and he's going to win challenges and he's going to put it through. Like, that's her

ticket. She lost her ticket on the on the split tribal. She's very unfortunate. I do think that once she loses it, then it becomes like, well, where am where is my, where are my me chills? are the threats. And that's when I can query it, but I can't really query it before. So in saying that, given she was, as always, to have screwed, even though she somehow survived that half tribal, let's do it. Because I texted you that I wanted to do this. Should we rank all eight of Surreve's reality television games? We're not including snake in the grass. It's like a collective when she was great. She waxed Stephanie again. But do you want to do the eight. Can we get to a can we get to a consensus? We have to start with number one. Because I think that's the

easiest one. I think Saris's best game ever of anything is the traitors. She wins outright. It's not even close. It is the seri nizance that we need. It's all we ever wanted in life. It is the reason why I can sleep well at night because this woman deserves to win a game and that is the one and it was

impressive and it was the inaugural season and all that stuff. So yeah, that's number one. I am ready to submit this as number two. I think I'm ready because actually I put out a poll about this when she got voted out. It's hard because I think we're going to put Micronesia third, right? So that's the debate we're having. Micronesia, she won that game.

She won that game. She won that game. She won that game. She got to won. But she lost because she was playing against who I think is the greatest survivor player of all time. And that's Parvety. Yeah, I mean, he lost because it was a final two. And it was tough against poverty.

And I think that's why as well, I put 50 above Microna. They both have flash. Obviously, the Aussie blindside, ironically. Eric and the Netflix there's a lot going on there. Jason, Siska. We still talk about these, these votes to this day.

But in 50, it was flashed. The fact that she got through that split tribal, the fact that she waxed Devonie again, just in these last couple of weeks, she spoke to Rizzo on another beach. That way she came back from Exile Island. It was so dominant. And the best thing about it,

and why I think I might put it above Micronesia, is because there was no Blackwooder Brigade. There was Sirius. It was really, Surrey. Like, Surrey is a really big part of that, if not pretty, much individually doing it. And the fact that she comes in as Surrey, again, she's a combination of who she's always been. She doesn't have that in Micronesia to the same degree. She's still very

much like the person who was, you know, afraid of leaves coming into Micronesia, even though Panama, which we'll talk about, was so impressive. Now she's Surrey. She was an outlier in this cast. It was an uneven cast, and Surrey was much more of a legend than anyone else on this car. She should have been dead tried. So I think that's why I would, even though obviously she gets out sooner, I would put sorry I would put the 50 7th, even 50 second Yeah and it's crazy because this is actually one of the only seasons

where she was actually voted out Yeah, she really was a majority of votes ever It's never it never happens It happens here and we're like But this might have been That it was a majority Like every vote is unique Like she and then she started going back

Like she did fire again Like we started and then eventually like Actually just get a majority of the votes Yeah now this was the one This is it this is some this is some serene material it gives me that same feeling

I get from the early days of game changes where Sandra is just in charge and people are because people are always giving Sandra the she doesn't do anything

oh my God blah blah she's cooking okay her and JT and the sugar is the craziest moment of Survivor like she's just

well that's the same way is that after game changes I was like was the Sandra's best game and like It gets out with two wins. And I think I said that at the time. So I think that's why we can maybe speak to that with 50.

Yeah. Yeah. Now next is AUV World, right? Are we in, are we aligned? Oh, no. Oh, we're definitely. Wait, wait, wait.

Wait, wait. We're doing Micronesia third. But AUV World was so sexy. What are you talking about? So low. Are you putting AUV World before Micronesia? Because she was, it was sexy. Oh, sorry.

Just hear me out. Just hear me out. Just hear me out. Saria is up against the, does just hear me out. Saria is up against the best in the world. And she's still Surrey. She's still Surrey. You got people going, hey, we need her out now.

They want poverty out and they're just voting for Surrey every time. And she's like, why do you all keep voting for me? You want poverty out. And she's just latching people on to her mist again. Lisa's like, in confessional, I'm ready to die for Surrey. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Parvety is like, I will go to the end with Saria. Like, she had it.

She wanted. Okay, AUV world for me is so incredibly low. We now have to do our own. Really? I loved, I loved AUV world for Ceres. She was, her back was against the wall. She was kind of, she was cooking. No, okay, I'm going to give mine.

Now we're going to diverging. Here's my order you can give yours. Traders? Okay, great. 50 people are on the same. Micronesia, she won that season, and she got someone to give up a necklace. We talk about it to this day.

It's been dead. Okay, my only issue is always my issue with Micronesia, is that they don't really give Cerey the credit for that. They make this as an ensemble cast, but they don't give, but they don't give her the credit. They only show Zaree being like, you know,

what if you can get the idol from? And then all of a sudden, it's the Natalie show. It's like, no, it's supposed to be Ceree's moment. And I think the show doesn't do it justice. I agree with you that it is her moment. I just don't think the edit does it any justice.

The edit as well had to differentiate what's going to be eventual winner, Parvite, from Rob Goddess, Caree, because they don't want to be able to be able to be able to be in that moment. moment though. I cried. It's true.

But in general, but in general, it's about taking away some credit from Surrey who's about to lose you were with twist. You do like a last minute there were MediVax twist

and then also giving poverty a little bit more in like the previously ons and stuff like because she's going to win and trying to differentiate so that you don't talk about 17 years later. I'm splitting hairs.

I'm splitting hairs. I hear you. And I will and I will definitely like submit to that for sure. Like Micronesia is amazing. I just don't think I've always had an issue with the way they don't give her enough credit for it.

That's all I was saying. False Chappelle. Okay. Well, we're talking about the show. No, we're talking about Surrey. Oh, yeah, that's fair. Fourth, Panama, underratedly great. Underratedly excellent.

It's good. It's good. It's good. She should have been our first boot. That first foot. That's why it makes me laugh as well, is that people are like, well, of course Marie is great. She's played so much more than these other people.

Like, do you know what she was doing in two days? Right. It's a four-person tribe, and she is scared of leaves in that moment. Wow. she convinced the three to one there's so much in Panama as well so Panama to me is a clear four the last shot we get of Surrey in Panama

before that first vote is her with those sticks trying to make fire because she's like we don't need Timitina and it's so funny that so much of Surrey's game has come down to fire so many times yeah so that's my four then I have game changes which I don't remember

a lot of game changes I think no no this is wrong No, this is wrong. You're not going to like where I put AUV Wells. I've got game changes as like she didn't get a lot of clothes in game changes, but I think even surviving. And I have some,

I quibble with some of the strategic moves she made in game changes. I think it was too early to go down, Andrea. To defend it, though, she's such an outlier at the most to again to go as far as she did. And she doesn't get voted out. She actually gets zero votes in that season. So that's, I think, that the credit you would give

an advantage of it. Then I was. do Big Brother, which was a tail of two halves. Hell no. So that half was 50. And then I'm going to do AUV World. Now, why you're going to get AUV World? Talk to me. Talk to me because you hate them so much. About Big Brother and AUV World is that in Big

Brother, she's hamstrung a little bit by Jared and that makes things go awry. And in AUV World, it's never going to be as high as other seasons because she's way too loyal to poverty. She's never going to cut poverty. poverty comes in with the stature that she will always beat surrey those people did not feel about surrey like we they love her but poverty was there like seri what seri is to us and that's a losing game and the thing about a few world as well

is that I was like she's making the decisions that put her to final four where now she has to do fire and it was obvious like I don't see how she was really protecting against which she possibly could have she was never coming against poverty like I was actually criticizing more of her game than I have in other games and I do think it was that loyalty to poverty. Like she could come out in 50 and play free because she didn't have poverty there.

She didn't have that in AUV World. So I would put AUV World's second last and I would put Heroes v. Villains, which was also a good game. You know, she was in the majority. Like we don't get the body of work from Heroes versus Villas. And that's my order.

But I've had AUV World second last. No, you got to put game changers down there instead. AUV World because here's why I give her so much credit for AUV World. That international alliance thing that she had going on where it was like, that was Ceri. That was Ceri. She was the one talking to Lisa. and Cass.

That was that was Saris Black Widow Brigade. You know, she was, it wasn't poverty. It was, they were loyal to Sarif first, you know?

And so I, I just love how. Then she loses it. Then she does. She does. She does. She does. She does.

She does. She does. I get that. But I think it was so impressive the way she was able to do that and to balance those alliances. I, that's way more impressive than anything

that she does in Game Changers, for sure. Now, game changers. In game changes, it's impressive that she was not voted out of the game. Yes, but I mean, that's the, that was this raggedy game that they made us watch, right? Where everybody had an alliance at the final six. Like this is, I mean, everybody had an idol at the final six and advantages and all kinds of stuff. It's like, like, look, look, I got to put

game changes lower. It's just, it's awful season two. I can see it. No, no, I'm not going to have you about an AUV world before my cranesia. I'm not going to let you. No, listen, I'm with you on Micronesia, but I'm, I cannot stand for game changers being higher than anything. It's just not. Okay, okay, okay, compromise. We can do this. Traders, 50, Micronesia, Panama. We got to do Panama. And then you're right, you're right. Put a UV world up before.

And then Big Brother. Yeah. And then game changes. Yeah. I'm willing to concede. Because Big Brother, I think Big Brother is seeds of 50. The things that she was doing at Big Brother is the same thing she was doing. Yeah.

And the first half of Big Brother, honestly. It's her being the nucleus of power and wherever she goes is where the votes go. It's not like, Ceree had a big alliance. it was six of them and then they started whittling people down. It was Sarie Izzy and Jared or even Surrey Izzy and Felicia. And then if she decided, okay, this week we're getting you out, we're going to get you out. And then we've decided next week wherever Sirreik goes. The problem is it was happening four or five times a week.

Every other day, Sarin was being like, what if we just vote this person out? And then I had to stress out all week as Sarin just made random decisions and it changed her mind. But it was so fun to watch. But then at the end, she has no when there's no agency that she has like for herself to win the game for like the last month of Big Brother. You know, she's, she's there. She cannot win a challenge to save her life. She will not get taken to the final two.

Like, it's not going to happen. The only way she can get to the final two is if she wins and that's just not happening. And then one of her closest ally has a win. And it's another 50 year old woman named Felicia. You know, it's just. What a time. What a year that was? What a four years that season?

Oh, my God. Big Brother is like Big Brother's not her game because Big Brother like. And she hated it. Yes. And as did I, there was, there was, there's so much agency to the challenge winners.

We're like, that doesn't prevent Surrey from having power in Survivor. Like, it does grow up defensively at the end, but you don't have to win your agency similarly. I mean, the fact that she had as much agency

as she did as someone who wasn't winning challenges was what was so impressive about Big Brother. But like, that's not the format for her. It is interesting that obviously, like, we will talk about like Surrey and like the best ever pantheon.

and I do think for her what's tough is like she has gaps that some of these other best players don't have like she's not going to win that challenge but she can also do things that other people can't like she spoke to Rizzo on that other beach but like in just again

like she's she is magic like genuinely like she's doing some things other people can never do but there are things as we're saying like even if she does keep Devin's at that final seven she's not even like well then you've kept another round now instead of going at six have you got yourself to five and maybe you can win out

we're not trying to get her further two went out because they will have the shot to take at her eventually. And that is always going to be a hole that is really, really difficult. But a couple of things about that is, I mean, firstly, I think that actually makes keeping Devin's a better move for Aubrey than for Surrey. Because if it's not at six, it might be at four, that she's going to go at some point. But for Aubrey, that might have put her in a final three rather than having to win at four. So I actually think that, like, for Aubrey may be keeping Devin's there. I'm now thinking, is the interesting move. And maybe then you go to that three and you just then flip back to the guys and vote out the other

threats in Tiffany and Devons and Surrey at that point. I actually thinking that maybe like for Allbrook, but I do think that the other thing people will say about Surrey is like, oh, well, of course they didn't get rid of her early because she, you know, she's someone who they can easily take out at the end. But before you've gotten to the end, she decided the whole game. Like, of course they didn't. She can go to the end. It's like, but do you think that the members of the jury are like, well, it was so easy

to take her out at the end? No, wait, I'm on the jury. Like that's why you have to take her out and they still don't and that's the miss. It's not the fact that like, oh, well, like, you know, she's going to. to be such an eat. And I think this is something that's true of like, I've said about George as well. King George is like, well, he's never going to win that final challenge so they can just take him out then. It's like, but before they did that, he decided the winner. He decided between lives and Matt and all of them. So that's why she and socially. And socially with George too. You know, like you probably think if I get to the end with George, I can probably beat him.

But the problem is you're not, you might not be the one who gets to sit next to George at the end. You might be in the graveyard of people who thought maybe I can get to the end with him, you know. So yeah, I mean, I think Saria is one of those, she's like She's like the whammy, you know, like our landmine. Like it's like, yeah, you run into it and you're like, oh shit, I fucked up and now I've got to go, you know. Like, and now I'm gone and it's too late.

And it's always like you always dripped about the moment. I was going to get her, I swear, right, if it wasn't for you meddling kids and that puppy, you know, it's always something like that. And so, yeah, but she does it every time. And now she's retiring, Shannon. And honestly, I'm okay with that. Because I think 50 was such a,

strong showing, but also because like she's, she's only getting older and, you know, like, these people are, the game is only getting more physical in a lot of ways and faster. And like, you know, like, listen, she's a grandma. I wouldn't want my granny out there playing Survivor at 65 years old. Like, let her rest. She's done enough. Her legacy.

I know, I know. I'm just saying by the time she plays again, right? Like, who knows? So I think, like, now is a good time to lay it down and say, like, hey, she can do other things and I can't wait to see what those are. I really enjoyed that she waxed Stephanie for the fourth time. I thought that was so funny. I also think, like, talking about Big Brother,

like we kind of saw her play, like we saw her play with her son and Jared, and then we saw her play with her, like adopted son in Rizzo, who's not even playing for her to win, like Jared should be. And we got to see what would be more difficult. And honestly, it was with Jared.

Like, genuinely, like, how went worse? That's because her real adopted son that's the problem is Ozzie. But we don't have to get into that. Yeah. And that, I mean, Ozzie was giving me. I mean, Jared, same person. Jared was talking over it.

Ozzie Jared, same person. fine. Yeah. It was like, I was like, I've seen this before. Why am I getting such a strong sense

of deja vu? Right. A hundred percent. She's like, again, but I didn't even birth you. Like I didn't even. Yeah.

She birthed so many of us and just did no way. I'm sorry, Sarita, that's your cross the bear. I want to bring up that you were shading me on club condo because I was saying

that I didn't think that she would win fan favorite. And look, someone, we have to be wrong eventually. You know, like I said, yes,

I'm very happy to be wrong. Can I tell you why I thought she would lose? no because I don't want to talk about that. I'm saying it. The casuals hate her. I have a baby on me most of the day. I'm on my phone a lot.

It keeps going to my algorithm, these random groups, these people hate her. I was like, but I think that they couldn't work out how to vote. And I'm willing to say this now. Hating Surrey, especially in the way that those people hate Surrey,

is an intelligence test. They're like, I don't understand what I'm missing about her. It's like, yeah, you really, you don't. You don't understand it, genuinely. Like, that's the problem. Like, and then there's another thing where it's like, I feel like the people who hate Surrey

and the people who can spell Surrey that Venn diagram is two completely separate circles like I've never seen anything like it the macro aggressions are insane I was like these people will never vote for Surrey I really felt like they would kind of consolidate on Devons but I think they couldn't work out of vote like I think they probably got scammed

or some sort of like computer virus because yeah did we do that we should have done that we should have done some sort of virus it's because they don't love Devons either. They don't, they didn't have a They were hot. They were Right. They love, they love

Ozzy. They like Devin's. They like Jonathan. There wasn't enough cohesiveness for the Yeah, they liked Joe. We were going to do that. People were like, I'm voting for Genevieve. I'm voting for Q. It's like, you can't, you can't listen to those people. Okay. Those people were saying it. Let Q get his three votes. You know, it's fine.

Okay. I like you, too, but I was like, don't split the vote. Like, yeah, we're not doing that. That we look, give that woman her money. And look, I don't trust any of the other votes that we've done this season. And I don't trust this one either. I'm happy Survivor rig this in Surrey's favor. I agree. Like, I said this about the finale.

I was like, the finale reminds me of the whole season and that it was kind of a disaster. But I liked the parts with Surrey. When they brought her on stage to give her that trophy, I was like, yes. Yep. Give her her trophy. And then money as well. And then, oh, what did she think about? Why didn't she get a car?

What did you think about when Rizzo came on stage to, uh, to, to, to talk about the challenge that he hadn't lost yet. Let's talk about it because why did I see that? I wasn't watching live. Why didn't they repackage it for the people who weren't watching live? Why did the West Coast also get the mistakes? Because it's iconic. It's iconic and it's real and it's raw and it's so good.

And it's just perfect television. Like you could see the survivors be like, Jeff, no, stop, chill. And Jeff's like, what? We don't know what's going on. Everybody's like, we do know what's going on. You fucked up. It's so good. I feel so bad for that.

I don't feel bad because why did you do the reunion like this? This is not the reunion special we were promised. This is not what we voted for. And that's what you get. That's what you get. That's what you get because we voted for what we used to have, which is the finale and then the reunion. And then you go down the row and you talk to the people.

You ask them how it feels to win a million dollars and all that kind of stuff. They didn't do that shit this time. They were playing games, trying to get the pre-jury out the way early and all kinds of stuff. And here's the prison. The pre-jury. They didn't give them anything. That's not what we signed for. I voted for the old finale

that we used to get, not this thing that you did this time. And so, yeah. But it's nice that you tried. But I, like, this is, so it was kind of comical that, but right before the finale, they Jeff did an interview when he was like, I don't want to do a reunion. I just want to check in and make it a whole event

and check in the whole time. It was like, pigs taking moments before disaster. Like, that's exactly what went wrong. So that decision was bad, but played out worse than anyone could have imagined. I know I said the finale was so predictable, but I guess the fan favorite, vote that I didn't think Surrey would win and was so elated that she did. And this was not predictable.

I couldn't have seemed as coming. I do agree in terms of the finale. Like, we got like shadows of these like former old school things where it's like, we got the loved ones, but why like this? Like do a challenge. We got the car, but why just to pile on Aubrey's 2 million? Do a car challenge. Trash.

We got a reunion. We didn't speak to, we didn't even show that they'd invited all these winners. We didn't speak to the non-year-people people that Jeff would say. people on the street. Where are the kids on the street? Who like Malcolm and Cochran? Where are the kids? Where's Cochran? Gawcran was there. Like, I, um, they didn't even speak to Cochon. They used to speak to people about how much they loved Cochran. How far are we have fallen. How insulting the show has been to so many people. Like, they've insulted

Colby. So they brought him back just to insult him over and over. He goes in the blood, moon twist. You didn't even check in with Colby. They were insulting to Coach. Ten seconds with Coach at the end. He doesn't even get a segment. Like, we needed more time. I would like to speak to kind of everyone. Like, The criticism of the Australian Survivor finale was that they did too much. They kept showing you guys said like it was the same clip, 18 times. Different angle, different angle, different. And they had too much time.

But this was like not nearly enough for a pretty ho-hum finale. I would have cut out some of that content. And I would have loved to talk to some of these non-jurers. Give me Q, give me Angelina. Give me like all of these, you know, really upsetting high deal or no deal cases for me that we lost really early. And at least pan to the winners that you've invited to be there. And we had like 20-something winners there. I definitely would have said that.

The mistake was unfortunate. Do you know an element of Australian television law, like the other major mess up, I should say, was on top model. They pulled in Miss Universe. They announced the wrong winner. So this kind of gave me flash, like that was worse. They announced the wrong girl for like 30 seconds. She believed she won.

And then it was the other person. That was a season before I was on top model. And then when I went on top model, they had to make it like a massive start because they'd messed up so badly and so we got sent to Paris and I always think about that like the little domino is like them

screwing that up and the big domino is like now I'm in Paris so that that was like probably the worst thing I've seen until this moment which was so unfortunate why am I watching it I'm watching delayed why am I was so funny

Jeff screw up so funny you know what it should be it shouldn't be the end of live reunions which obviously is it should be the end of fire though I'll take it You just got to make sure the fans don't vote for it.

Because Shannon, now we're in the open era of Survivor, the open era where anything that happened to the past could happen, but also anything can happen in the future that can happen. And so basically we're back to the new era because that's basically what we've always been operating under the assumption that you could just do things that you've already done. Like we've never said, oh, they're never going to do blood versus water again. They're never going to do Brains Beauty and Braun again. they're never going to do the fire tokens. Like, I've always assumed survivors

just going to reach back and get whatever they want to get whenever they want to. But Jeff has branded us the open era, and now we get to see how we move forward and leave the new era these 10 seasons in the past. I don't believe it. Like, it's not all fair game. They're not doing a final team.

They're not doing fire. The same way that they were never not doing fire in this season. I don't trust them anymore. I mean, obviously, you do extreme precedent. Okay, a few things I want to do. to check it on before we go that we haven't spoken about in the last month that I haven't podcasted. I mean, firstly, do we want to wrap up like Aubrey's win? Like, where would you rank Aubrey as like a new era winner in this game alone? Even though she is obviously a combination

of everything she's ever been. She didn't have control most of the game, but she also was coming in a spot where her threat level was relatively high. But like you said, it's probably in the middle of the role, but she has to play to that. She was starting to start. off on a tribe that was a bad tribe for her but she worked the way out of it which is good but she won challenges yeah and she won and she won challenges that she never went tribal yeah

and she needed to win at the end when she did that was clutch um I put her probably I mean you know you know my ranking somewhere at the top you have Marianne and um Mary Ann and um Kyle and D

right those three are probably yeah I think D is I think D is number one for me then Kyle and Marianne. Maybe, man, it's really hard for me to not put Mary Ann second. So, D. Kyle, Marianne, then I'll put, then I'll go with Aubrey from there and then Rachel and then. Oh, wow. You're putting us so high.

I mean, not really. It's about middle. That's about, that's the middle. Oh my God, I have so much lower. Much like A.U.B. World. I have a second last in the new year. Oh, yeah. I don't know about all that. But ironically, I mean, I just did a new era winner ranking, so it's easy to do. And I've put Eric a second last.

again, a lot of the new era winning games are really good. So that's why it was so tough to do it at the time. I just feel like I can't really put her above Erica because I feel like Erica's game has more of like real agency at the end. And Erica wasn't necessarily going as much early when Aubrey was. Well, no, Erica was definitely going early and then the worst twist that ever happened and Survivor happened.

And it was the hourglass where she could save herself and put her entire time that won the challenge. I don't think a lot of people were though. Yeah, it's true. and she benefits from the twist, but Aubrey benefits from the twist. I think that's what's unfortunate, but also pretty fitting about this win

is that it was such a twisty season. And again, if Surrey wins, she's, you know, she's evaded the twist in incredible ways. But given that Aubrey won,

it was much, it was in the vein of the season in that she benefited from the twist. Like that, as the season should give as a winner. So I think, in the format as well as a twist. Like she doesn't,

in the three tribes, she doesn't go to tribal castle early. She's gifted an idol because that's how the Billy Elish boomerring idol works. like yeah, I think he's So I think my issue is that I think the Jam Jam spot is probably where I'm putting her

right around the gym. Wherever Jam Jam is, she's either right above or right below Jam Jam. I still think she's over Rachel. I just think Rachel like really was in a dire situation in the entire game. Like it was like yeah, don't get me wrong. Impressive that she won, but she was against the wall the entire game and not because of just like, oh, you know, she ran out

other allies or something like that. Like she was actively being targeted for most of the game. It's impressive that she was able to evade that. but also not the greatest survivor play. Like even she would say that that's not ideal. She does benefit from some advantages and some twists as well. So, you know, I'll give her all the credit in the world. I think she maximized her opportunities with what she was doing.

But it's still rough. I think that Aubrey's probably like, like I said, probably like the better, to me the better version of that. Well, yeah. I mean, look, Rachel was like the polarizing one, I think for a lot of the rankings that like the fans did when we did that a few months ago. But yeah, I just feel like it's, it's, there's so many similarities.

Erica, but it's just not as good. So then I just have to put her below Eric and I already ranked Erica. So that kind of makes it easy for me. I do think, you know, I'm glad her legacy has this win, as we're saying, like, I've been an Aubrey fan since she played in Coral. I was like such a huge Aubrey defender. And when she was speaking about it at the final tribal council, she got that question about her story and her narrative, she got me.

I was like, oh, yeah, like, I'm a big Aubrey fan. Like, I thought that was really well-called. So I'm really glad for her legacy. I think this game was really limited. I think it was really luck-based. I think that's a really hard story for the edit to tell as much as we've spoken about, like, the edit issues. Like I actually don't really blame much of the edit here.

I think they gave us as much as they could for her win too much, was we're saying because they have to. But yeah, I think that the game itself, it's just such a hard game to play to show. Because it mostly comes down to liquiding that final challenge. Like that, that was most of it.

And that's a difficult story for them to tell. But all right, so that's Aubrey's game. Do we want to tie a bow on Surrey? You wanted to do this. You forget that you message me. You said, should we rank Surrey as one as the best ever? Or where is she in terms of best ever?

For U.S. Survivor players, I guess, is an easier one to do once we start putting in international. Yeah. Yeah. Like, worldwide would be tough. I don't want to get into that. But as far as, like, if we just started with U.S., like, I think poverty is the goat. I think that's, to me, that's undisputable. We just had a conversation, ironically.

Yeah, like she, poverty is degraded. Part of the greatest all the time. I stand. I will argue with anybody as far as I'm concerned. She's the total. Poverty is the total package in every way. She is, she just, she, she just, she, there's nothing that she's bad at in Survivor.

It's just not a thing. Sarie has her, you know, deficiencies. And so don't love that. You know, then you have other winners who I would have to look at probably as well. You know, like Boston Rob at his peak game is probably better than Surrey. Because again, Boston Rob is going to have complete control. And if he doesn't have complete control, which he will, he's going to then win the challenges that need to be won. but now we can have a conversation.

What about you? I think that a few months ago, we watched Poverty Slay AUV World. And at the time I said, the two best ever are Tony and Poverty, and your mileage may vary on which one. And you're not wrong if you say that. And actually, I think was it Mike who just did this where he asked the players who their best of all time was? And it really could still like things for me because there were times that I'm like,

that's correct and that's not. And I think that like I'm about to get four. people, and I'm going to put it in my order, but I think any of those four are an incredibly legitimate answer. I've now thought about my mileage varying on Tony v. Poverty, and I'm putting Tony first. I think Tony is the best of terrible. That's impossible. We might as wrap this up. I can't do that. I can't do that. Tony, the way Tony plays, the first, the first time he plays is so erratic that I can't ignore the ups. He's come along. Yes. However, however, the Survivor 40, when is a war game, it's like, it's flawless. And so, like,

I can give them credit for that, but also there are other things that I have to take away from. Whereas I don't have as much to criticize poverty over the entire entirety of all the games that she's played. Like how many mistakes has poverty actually made in Survivor versus how many things of Tony does, whether it's anti-social or just anti-strategic. I think that poverty is going to outrank him in both of those situations. And then physically, I think she outricks him as well. Poverty had a limited social game earlier on where it was this like clicky social game, like a Savannah-style social game

that she doesn't seem to have anymore. But that's the game that won her. That's still a game that won her a season. And Tony being so erratic in Kagayan, he also won. Yeah, he did win. And he's now better than that. And she's better than that too.

I think they both now. You know what I'm about to say. You know what I'm about to say. Tony had a God idol in Kagayan, which allows him to do all the things that he was able to do with those things. Without that thing, he would have gotten voted out. Parvety in Micronesia was never.

going to get voted out. She just, she controlled that. And then Henry was her. She went to the breakfast with Surrey. She went to breakfast. She beat her. She did not go to the final two. Part of he went to the final two and won. And then final two is greater than. And then and then and then part, no it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. Stop it. Stop it. shenanigans. Like you get every episode of Kagaon, every episode of Kajayan is people saying, I wish I could vote out Tony, but I cannot because he has a God idol. That's like four episodes in a row. It would have happened.

It would have happened. And then Heroes versus Villains Parvety is just God tiered the entire time. Then AU Survivor Parvety. A.U. Survivor Parvety is incredible. I agree with you. The bar is fine. So she has three incredible games, Micronesia, Heroes vs.

villains and AUV World. Tony has two games. One that I say was like, good game. Kageon is very good. I think the other one is incredible. I think that the things that he did in Survivor 40 are unmatched. But that said, poverty did it three times at least.

Right. I think I'm a little lower on Micronesia than you. I think I'm higher on Kakiya and I think those people The best game ever played. Those people were loyal to poverty so much. Like it wasn't that like, Ceree was playing a winning game.

She was playing a winning game, but make no mistake. Alexis, Natalie, Amanda, they were all there because of poverty. Surrey. It's still very good. I'm just not as high on it. Like all of these the bar is so high. Like you can't even see it. It's a dot to us. But I'm having to now make these distinctions to do it. So for me, I'm going to put Tony first. Now after 50, I'm putting Surrey second.

That's correct. Get out of here. Okay. Look. I love the woman. I love her. I love her. But make no mistake, you are playing in Parvety's face. Farvety could go out and win every challenge after the merge if she wanted to. That is incredible. If she wanted to, She doesn't even have to, but she could. She's also going to find idols every single time she plays. She's going to find an advantage. She's going to. This is crazy.

I really can't believe you got me arguing against C. You have me arguing against Ceree, which is crazy. I love it. I love it. This is a gift to me. I'm about to leave. There is no way. Poverty is a greatest survivor player of all time, and you cannot change my opinion about that.

Ceree can be number two. She cannot be over poverty because even you just said, if Ceree goes to the end with poverty, who wins? in AUV world alone. In AUV world, that was a jury for poverty. I'm not even sure that. I'm not even a thousand percent sure. I don't even know.

I don't know if we know that. It's always been debated and I'm not doing it with you right now. But it's always been debating. I choose the debate. I will do the debate. I will do the debate. We've been talking for two hours. I can't debate it with you.

I have a baby I have to get back to you, please. I think you would want to make my Grenier. I think name your baby, Sarie. Name your baby Surrey right now. I only had a three months old. I can't just change her name. You can. Many times a season, I thought about it.

I was, like, going to text you, like, please. Okay, Rory is such a cute middle name. But I was like, but Rory is such a cute middle name. What if, like, Surrey was the first, like, the, like, the, Surrey, Rory. Like, it's very nice. You argued against Surrey, that's something that happened. I'm so angry at you for making me do this. The AUV World Jury specifically was, like, Shawnee and Sarah and, like, people who, like,

really would love poverty over Surrey. I don't think that that makes poverty better player than Surrey. I think that was that was her. She played it. It was the perfect game. The woman has beat Surrey three times, Shannon. She is beating Surrey in Survivor three times. She wasn't there.

She's a hero and she was a villain. They were versus each other by the design of the game. She beat her. The only time that's relevant is AUV World because. She beat her in Micronesia too. This is crazy. The people in the comments are going to be shocked that I am doing this. I agree with me.

I agree more for me. y'all y'all hear me i'm fighting for my life this is crazy shenadden this has been so much i cannot do this with you come for us please and come for us tony three there's no way that's it that's the order tony three poverty sandra and any one of them being the best ever is a that's my crazy okay okay that's correct that's correct that's correct answer i think i i i still the only thing i will say is that boston rob in redemption island and boston rob in I don't think he's not listen listen hear me out Boston Rob and the redemption either and Boston Rob and all stars

those are incredible games of Survivor to play just in general right so yes I can I can hear you I don't mind putting Boston Rob now I'm not the biggest Buster Rob fan but I'm just saying like him at his best is really really hard to beat you know he just doesn't have a lot of deficits when he's at his best he's not always at his best so to your point yeah I give I'll give you that

I love Sandra I love Sandra I look I always been a Sandra defender never dissed at at all. So if you want to give, no, no, if you want to give me, if you want to give me poverty number one and then Tony, sorry number two, serene number two, then poverty number three and then, you said probably, no, party number one, then Sarin number two, then Sandra number three, then Tony number four. That's what I'm going with. But they're all correct answers. I mean, they're all correct answers. They're all correct answers. They're going to come for us. The people coming for us, but it's okay. I don't read it. You're not going to

read the comments. We don't go read the comments. They're all the correct. They're all correct. If they're correct for you, that's fine. And listen, and Boster Rock could be number five. I think that feels fine. I think that feels fine. That's solid. We didn't agree. We've argued for me. We didn't agree. We didn't agree. My baby's okay. All right. So the twists. Uh-huh. What were your thoughts on Bisseware? It happened. I think, I think it's an awful twist. I think it's an awful twist. I

think it's an awful twist. I said it's awful twist. I think it's a loved it. The coin floss? The coin toss? People loved it. That's why I want to talk about it. Because it's crazy to me. Like, again, we're agreed now. It's an awful twist. It's an awful twist. This is an awful twist. This is an awful twist because if it lands on tails,

we wasted an entire episode. Yeah. And also, because we didn't vote anyone out. Also, Seria 100% would have gone, right? Like, the way that we're all so sure that if it goes to rocks, Sarah's speaking that rock and she's landing on tails. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. This is an awful twist. We got lucky, but this is an awful twist. I don't ever want to see it again. I've never seen such results-oriented thinking. Like, that was great.

Like, do you know what I saw that before was when the idol, was paired with the vote steal on David versus Goliath. For like the one time ever, it didn't like hurt what would be an underdog with an idol. Like it actually helped the underdogs. That was so unlikely. Like it took pairing all of these twists. And instead, what happened was like it just happened to work out. It's like, oh, that's a great twist.

But it's not. Like, I think production will read the wrong thing into this. But like, that works so well because it happened to like land on the right thing. I don't think they could have reaped it because he called heads in the moment. And what does that episode look like if it's tails? And also, that's not Survivor. like the idea that it could have gone to rocks and someone could have been coined out of the game

like it really should be enough for us to quit the show but like we've said that so much that it lost like lost for me I just wanted to touch on that because I was shocked in the moment how high so many people were on it and it was just so resource oriented for me. No, there's another twist like that in the 40s as well I can't remember what it is. Do or die? Yeah, the first time it happened,

people were like, that was fun and then the second time it happened it was bullshit and people like, but it was bad the first time too. It was bad both times but because it worked out the first time everybody was fine. The second time it didn't work out and people were like, wait a minute, I don't like that. Yes, because it's a bad twist. You're handcuffing all the players.

Yeah, I completely agree. Like, I think that it was fun because Devin's is fun. Like all of these twists, like the players breathe life into it and like Devin's enthusiasm was fun. I do think it's like the defining moment of the season in every way in that it was so bad, but then like parts of it were fun. And then like that's the Stephanie Tribal Council where they get out step.

Like all of that probably is the defining moment of the season, but it's for better and for worse. and like, I just couldn't believe that people were like, this was a great twist. Like, that's not Survivor. This was Beast Games, I think I've never watched, but it was Survivor. Do you think Billy Elish liked this twist? Do you think Billy Elish watches the show? She loves this show.

It's her favorite show. I thought it was funny that Jeff started the reunion by being like, thank you to everyone who's here because of the celebrities. I'm like, I don't think that Billy Elish is watching thanks to Billy Elish. Like, I don't even think they brought in that one celebrity viewer that Billy Eilish should be. Isn't it crazy as well that she hates the show? And we all found that out. Does she hate the show?

Yeah, she was making fun of us. She was making fun of me specifically. She was like rolling her eyes. Yeah. That's her, like her persona though. She gives like her like bratty teenager kind of vibes. You know, she's grown. Don't get me wrong.

But like she's through this. Yeah, I feel like that's the energy she gives. Like, ugh, I can care less. I don't know. I'm too cool for this. She's not too cool for Survivor. Survivor's too cool for you, Billy. Oh, she thinks she is.

What did you think of the split tribal? which one well the one with jonathan going back and forth i didn't love it it wasn't my favorite thing i mean it was interesting but not in a way where i was like i want to see that again what about you i think i mean i think that the limited four like they gave up a final nine vote we got two amazing final nine votes in australian survivor this year

and like final night it's like meant to be the vote so sexy it was such a fun vote at both times yeah both so good and in different ways and And we lost that. I mean, again, it was interesting because Ozzy, Ozied, he jarranted and Surrey's incredible, like that part, although it did also screw Surrey. But, like, I just know why they want to give up their final nine. Like, they were lucky that there was, like, meaning again,

in these rock draw little votes because Ozzy so much chewed up his own game that it was meaningful. And, like, Emily was so out of allies and was getting outplayed by Syrika, because Saris so amazing that it, like, gave it meaning. But when you put people into these tiny little groups on rock drawers, it's much more likely that they're going to go for a non-meaningful reason. So I think they got lucky on that. But I mean, yeah, were any of the twist good this season?

Can we point to one that was like that really added instead of detracting or maybe just working out? Like it just happened to work out or it didn't like it was Thai Destiny's was like fine. Was anything that actually added value other than just doing a vote? I can't think of one. Like I would still rather get a vote than be swear, even though the moment itself looked out as great as ever. And to me, it was still so flawed as like a mechanism. Yeah, I mean, the worst to me, the worst part of the season were the Billy Eilish Bumran idols. I think it's such a restricting part of the game.

Genevieve finds all of these idols can't use them and then of course needs one and you can't use them. Even with Rizzo, with his idol, what if he was able to play it for Ceree or whatever and just changed the game a little bit? You know, by like, aha, y'all thought we were going to do this, but I've taken ownership of a move. It's like, it has to be on yourself. It just limits the gameplay.

I hate it. I think all the twists were bad. I think every last one of them were bad. I think we got some good moments from Twist. I think they'll twist themselves, the blood moon is whant, want, so lame, it's weak, it's whack, I don't like none of it. Yeah, no, I didn't like any of it. I think the coolest moment of the season, honestly, Jeff doing the challenge.

That was incredible. Love that so much. I always love that. I think that, I mean, the reason the twist had anything was because the cast gave it something, which is so ironic because Jeff said they were playing because of Mr. Beast. It's like they actually shouldn't be playing. The tribal council might be canceled. Like, you're lucky you have players like Devin's who is willing to go in there and tear it up

and be incredibly fun. So yeah, I mean, I don't think, I do think, you know what, maybe Billy Elish does watch, but she knows it's a bad twist so she doesn't want to get credit for it. Yeah, she's like, she knows that this is all a long con. Yeah, yeah, she'll be back when the twist are good.

She's like, oh, no, no, no, I'm a really big fan. I'm like a super fan. Yeah, I want to survive a hurdle every day. Right, she gets it. She gets it. She's like open era. She's going to be all, she's all in an open era for sure.

He's a survivor fan, but she just knows she didn't want to be. she knows that it was a bad to us and she doesn't want to be associated with it. That's really smart. I don't blame her. Chappelle, thank you so much for keeping me from my life and letting me talk about Survivor instead of, again,

just, you know, I guess being a mom, which I haven't podcasted in like a month. So I'm glad I got to get out a lot of thoughts about the end game of the season and more. Yeah, this is fun. Thank you. Thank you. I love talking about Survivor and I love talking to you. Two things, married them up together.

Same thing. We had a great time. Great evening. It was so much fun. We got to talk more. Text me. It'll be fun. It was crazy that you argued against three.

I cannot believe you maybe do that. But it is, I came around like poverty being the greatest of all time literally talking to you. And now here I am talking to you. You're like, nope, she's third. Third is crazy.

Third is crazy. Can't do it. All of those answers are correct. Your mileage may vary. That's just my order. Please don't come from me in the comments. I want to hear your order. Give me your order.

You know, but going to your order. Yeah. Shepel, what can the people find from you? Recap kickback.com, YouTube.com slash at Recap kickback. Subscribe, all that good stuff. And you'll see so much from me. But you got to check it out.

And follow me on all social media platforms at Recap Kickback. Follow me at Shannon Gates. It's not a lot going on because, again, what am I doing? You know, just being a mom. But-riding life. Yeah, but this was fun to be a human being and talk about Survivor and all these thoughts that I've had just like pent up in me for a month. So fun to get to do that.

So thank you so much. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone for listening. And I will see you. I don't know when. All right, bye. Bye.